by publius
For those of you disappointed that Rove and Cheney escaped Fitzgerald, there is a potential silver lining. They may not be going to jail, but they are going to have to live with the fact that Libby — a close friend and ally — is going to jail for something that they also did and even ordered him to do. I would think Cheney in particular may have a few carving-letters-in-his-chest episodes (or Banquo dreams) knowing that Libby did all this to protect him. Just a thought.
[By the way, sorry I’ve been MIA lately. That should be ending soon, hopefully with some good news.]
“but they are going to have to live with the fact that Libby — a close friend and ally — is going to jail for something that they also did and even ordered him to do.”
I strongly doubt this. The chances that he will see the inside of a jail cell are vanishingly small. He will string the case out with appeals and post-trial motions until after the 2008 election, and then get a pardon, just as the Iran-Contra defendants did.
Of course nothing gives me reason to believe that Cheney cares about other people to that degree.
I’ll be looking forward to hearing the good news 🙂
well, it’s not good news yet, but thanks.
Publius: I would think Cheney in particular may have a few carving-letters-in-his-chest episodes (or Banquo dreams) knowing that Libby did all this to protect him. Just a thought.
Cheney once shot a friend in the face, got a lackey to blame for the friend for getting in the way of his gun, and got the friend to apologize.
Cheney allowed the 2004 and 2006 electoral campaigns to wave a Constitutional amendment that would have made his daughter and her partner permanent second-class citizens as a vote-getting tactic.
Somehow, I doubt he’ll be losing much sleep over the fact that he told Libby to do something and Libby ended up in jail for it.
Dan: The chances that he will see the inside of a jail cell are vanishingly small.
Well, he has actually now been convicted, though not yet sentenced. Even if he appeals, doesn’t he go to jail during the appeals process?
Somehow, I doubt he’ll be losing
“hopefully with some good news”
You mean, after all this time, you finally got ‘lucky’
🙂
Jes,
“doesn’t he go to jail during the appeals process”
While my criminal procedure legal experience is decades in the past (and hopefully staying that way), I think the answer is no.
What Dantheman said. Judy Miller has already seen more jail time than Libby ever will.
The prosecution has already stipulated to the extension of Libby’s bail pending appeal (and actually, I think the amount of his bail might be zero), so he’ll be a free man for quite a while.
Libby was released on his own recognizance, so you are correct, Steve. Bail is zero.
I’m not sure I’d count on a Libby pardon. Here’s why:
1) Loyalty in the Bush administration is a one-way street. You are loyal to him. It does not necessarily flow the other way.
2) Libby it’s Cheney’s tool, not Bush’s.
3) Bush is starting to eye his place in “history”.
So why would Bush give himself a black eye — historically — to save Cheney’s tool a year in jail?
He might. He might have lots of reasons — perhaps Libby will, effectively, blackmail the pair of them with a “Pardon me or I write my memoirs truthfully” kind of thing. Perhaps Bush won’t consider it anything anyone will care about — he’s quite clueless.
But I think with the scandals breaking left and right that, well, Bush might not feel he wants to waste his time and his “image” cleaning up Dick’s mess.
I have a question — anyone here read Just One Minute? Post-verdict, there seems to have been an outbreak of insanity — especially in the comments.
I read it because it was a conservative look at the Libby trial by someone competent, but I’m seeing so much delusion there that I’m wondering if I didn’t fall into a parallel reality.
Is there ANY right-wing commentary on the Libby trial that I can read that isn’t at the “Fitzgerald will indict WILSON, not ROVE!” level of hackery?
There’s at least two or three conflicting strains of delusions going on just now, Morat20, which is mostly why I’m (again, mostly) avoiding comments in Plame-related threads.
Dantheman: While my criminal procedure legal experience is decades in the past (and hopefully staying that way), I think the answer is no.
OK. Thanks. Wow. So, he’s walking around loose while a convicted felon? Are all convicted felons treated like this, or only senior administration officials convicted of felony in matters concerning national security?
OMGZ! publius is getting a shift key! 😮
OK. Thanks. Wow. So, he’s walking around loose while a convicted felon? Are all convicted felons treated like this, or only senior administration officials convicted of felony in matters concerning national security?
It’s not uncommon for non-violent criminals who don’t pose a flight-risk.
If you’re rich and white, you don’t generally even see the jail cell until the last possible moment.
‘and then get a pardon, just as the Iran-Contra defendants did.
‘
And then get a job in the next neo-con administration, just like the Iran-Contra defendants did.
jg,
True enough, although Libby isn’t the one I’d most like to keep out of any future Republican administration — Yoo and Addington top that list.
publius, what an interesting post. At first, from the headline, I thought it might be about Lewis Libby and the perjury trial. Then after reading the post I wasn’t sure. There was nothing there that relates to any known facts of the case. As I purused down the thread, looking for some familiarity I found a sliver with the comment about and ultimate pardon. I suppose of Bill Clinton can pardon Libby client Marc Rich, George Bush could reciprocate easily enough. And Slarti, I agree, it’s fruitless to debate with dementia. I guess that’s how a moderate hangs with a lefty fringe blog like this for so long – restraint.
Morat20: It’s not uncommon for non-violent criminals who don’t pose a flight-risk.
And they’re sure that Libby doesn’t?
Also, just think of how sadly convenient it would be for both Bush and Cheney, not to mention Karl Rove, if Libby just… well, “let’s just say he won’t be bothering us any more”, to quote Bush.
If you’re rich and white, you don’t generally even see the jail cell until the last possible moment.
Ha. Oh well. So, Libby’s really got no reason to testify – unless Bush is impeached for some other reason, since Libby could hardly hope for a Presidential pardon from Pelosi.
I just don’t get the point of these periodic drive-bys which accuse ObWi of being the fringiest element of the fringey fringe. One wonders what a person who makes such silly claims would think of the actual fringe.
“Cheney in particular…”
Do the undead know shame?
You are still thinking Rove and Cheney like they are normal people, with a normal sense of shame. That’s not the least plausible.
so he’ll be a free man for quite a while.
he’ll be a free Convicted Felon for quite a while.
it’d be rude not to mention that every chance you get.
In another lifetime, Libby represented Marc Rich, who was pardoned by Bill Clinton at the last hour before Clinton left office in 2001. I would think Mr. Libby learned something from that….
Are there a lot of rich black nonviolent felons languishing in jail cells while awaiting their appeals? There are certainly problems with race and the US justice system, but I don’t think Libby’s situation would be different if he were black.
I join with those wondering where Publius gets the idea that Cheney has a conscience.
One wonders what a person who makes such silly claims would think of the actual fringe.
Their head would explode.
Here’s what sickens me. All of them are rich and will get richer in or out of Washington. Bush, Cheney, Libby all of them will feel vindicated by virtue of their after government profiteering.
Their head would explode.
Sounds like a worthwhile experiment.
A slight upside if Libby does get pardoned – if he is then called to testify about the leak for civil proceedings (or further congressional investigations), I believe he cannot plead the fifth. Having already accepted a pardon is tantamount to admitting the crime, so he has no grounds to not testify about the crime.
Celebrity Death Match — Soren Kierkegaard vs. Francis Schaeffer.
My money is on the scrappy Dane. But then it always has been.
Shinobi: Having already accepted a pardon is tantamount to admitting the crime, so he has no grounds to not testify about the crime.
Depends on what terms the pardon is granted, doesn’t it?
All you lefty hacks remember Clinton pardoning the Puerto Rican terroists? And Marc Rich? Friends of Bill get forgiven of crimes and you say nothing?
A man has a bad memory and you rave like blood thirsty lunatics.
I wonder why Marc Rich is such a Big Freakin Deal? That pardon was a fairly repulsive move, of course, but most of the people here probably were never such unreserved fans of Clinton as to be badly disilllusioned by it. More relevantly, of course, the case is utterly irrelevant to that of Libby, since Rich didn’t actually work to betray his country, but just stole stuff.
Which reminds me of the bright side of Rich. Clinton was pressured by various interest groups to pardon two felons who, after all, only stole from wealthy people; and two felons who because they had performed useful services for Israel. He covered both bases by pardoning Rich, managing to leave (1) Michael Milken a felon and banned (a humorous legal fiction, this) from working in high finance; (2) Jonathan Pollard a felon, still taking his leisure in a super-security prison. There could be worse outcomes.