A whoops! Friday open thread

by

by liberal japonicus

Couple of links for you
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/butterflies-parasitic-wasps-finland

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/11/1045084704/an-invasive-plant-is-taking-over-the-kansas-prairie-it-may-be-too-late-to-stop-i

But that’s plants you say
Scientists Built an AI to Give Ethical Advice, But It Turned Out Super Racist

A bit of opining here, Something to consider when people suggest that we can just science our way out of climate change. But open thread, so talk about that or anything else.

414 thoughts on “A whoops! Friday open thread”

  3. The key word is ‘just’. I see a lot of things suggesting that ‘just’ science can deal with it. I don’t think that is the case.

  4. The key word is ‘just’. I see a lot of things suggesting that ‘just’ science can deal with it. I don’t think that is the case.

  5. From the NPR piece on bluestem:
    Nature will take over and it’ll eat your lunch, so too late now.
    I have nothing to add.

  6. From the NPR piece on bluestem:
    Nature will take over and it’ll eat your lunch, so too late now.
    I have nothing to add.

  7. Just goes to show ….
    … whatever it is ya wanna show.
    Start yer engines conservatives and libertarians.
    Praying, universal open carry of loaded automatic weapons, and libertarian prevention of any government action whatsoever, natch, would’ve saved the day for Finland and Kansas, amirite?
    As for the racist AI, I can’t even, not is it ethical (sez human derived as thus biased AI, itself), I expect, to punch an algorithm in the face or kick it in the nuts for simulating republican vermin Jesse Helms, Pat Buchanan, and Donald Trump, or any old KKK cracker Democrat from 1925, so where does that leave us?
    I guess up shit creek without a scientifically-proven paddle or a Rome-approved rosary.
    All of this puts another nail in the coffin of vaccination as well, according to ascendant genocidal conservative filth.
    Spahn, Sain, and then pray for rain.

  8. Just goes to show ….
    … whatever it is ya wanna show.
    Start yer engines conservatives and libertarians.
    Praying, universal open carry of loaded automatic weapons, and libertarian prevention of any government action whatsoever, natch, would’ve saved the day for Finland and Kansas, amirite?
    As for the racist AI, I can’t even, not is it ethical (sez human derived as thus biased AI, itself), I expect, to punch an algorithm in the face or kick it in the nuts for simulating republican vermin Jesse Helms, Pat Buchanan, and Donald Trump, or any old KKK cracker Democrat from 1925, so where does that leave us?
    I guess up shit creek without a scientifically-proven paddle or a Rome-approved rosary.
    All of this puts another nail in the coffin of vaccination as well, according to ascendant genocidal conservative filth.
    Spahn, Sain, and then pray for rain.

  9. Cheatgrass, another invasive species, has become dominant throughout much of the American West from the Rockies to the Pacific. It contributes to both the frequency and severity of wildfires compared to native grasses.
    Salt cedar (multiple tamarisk species) is an invasive plant that now dominates millions of acres of waterside areas in the West. It has a much higher transpiration rate than native plants, “wasting” something more than a million acre-feet of water into the atmosphere in the Colorado River basins.

  10. Cheatgrass, another invasive species, has become dominant throughout much of the American West from the Rockies to the Pacific. It contributes to both the frequency and severity of wildfires compared to native grasses.
    Salt cedar (multiple tamarisk species) is an invasive plant that now dominates millions of acres of waterside areas in the West. It has a much higher transpiration rate than native plants, “wasting” something more than a million acre-feet of water into the atmosphere in the Colorado River basins.

  11. the autumn olive (an Asian transplant) is everywhere in my little slice of the woods. it’s not an ugly plant, but it sure gets around.
    luckily, Japanese beetles adore it almost as much as they adore my apple tree.

  12. the autumn olive (an Asian transplant) is everywhere in my little slice of the woods. it’s not an ugly plant, but it sure gets around.
    luckily, Japanese beetles adore it almost as much as they adore my apple tree.

  13. But the tiny parasitic wasp H. horticola appears to have been able to fly or at least to be lifted by strong winds to move between islands on the Åland archipelago, an autonomous region of Finland where Swedish is the official language.

    Emphasis mine. For whatever reason (don’t remember), I was just reading about the Åland islands, which I had previously never heard of, a few days ago. And here they are again so soon afterwards.

  14. But the tiny parasitic wasp H. horticola appears to have been able to fly or at least to be lifted by strong winds to move between islands on the Åland archipelago, an autonomous region of Finland where Swedish is the official language.

    Emphasis mine. For whatever reason (don’t remember), I was just reading about the Åland islands, which I had previously never heard of, a few days ago. And here they are again so soon afterwards.

  17. Salt cedar (multiple tamarisk species) is an invasive plant that now dominates millions of acres of waterside areas in the West. It has a much higher transpiration rate than native plants, “wasting” something more than a million acre-feet of water into the atmosphere in the Colorado River basins.
    I’ve been teaching Paolo Bacigalupi’s “The Tamarisk Hunter” (https://www.hcn.org/issues/325) in my SF class for several years now (I’ve been reading papers about it all this last week). But further research on the plant has scaled back the scope of its purported thirstiness a lot:
    https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/a-water-hog-redeemed
    “I think one of the reasons why (our study is) surprising is because the value 200 gallons per day has been printed so many times in the popular press,” says Pat Shafroth, a USGS research ecologist who helped prepare the report.
    So where did that 200 number come from? The USGS traced it back to a paper published in 1987 whose authors never described how they got that result. A later study from 2007 calculated 32 gallons per plant.
    Still a really good story that’s worth teaching and one of the best Cli Fi stories I’ve found both for teaching what SF is and for getting students to think more deeply about environmental issues.

  18. Salt cedar (multiple tamarisk species) is an invasive plant that now dominates millions of acres of waterside areas in the West. It has a much higher transpiration rate than native plants, “wasting” something more than a million acre-feet of water into the atmosphere in the Colorado River basins.
    I’ve been teaching Paolo Bacigalupi’s “The Tamarisk Hunter” (https://www.hcn.org/issues/325) in my SF class for several years now (I’ve been reading papers about it all this last week). But further research on the plant has scaled back the scope of its purported thirstiness a lot:
    https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/a-water-hog-redeemed
    “I think one of the reasons why (our study is) surprising is because the value 200 gallons per day has been printed so many times in the popular press,” says Pat Shafroth, a USGS research ecologist who helped prepare the report.
    So where did that 200 number come from? The USGS traced it back to a paper published in 1987 whose authors never described how they got that result. A later study from 2007 calculated 32 gallons per plant.
    Still a really good story that’s worth teaching and one of the best Cli Fi stories I’ve found both for teaching what SF is and for getting students to think more deeply about environmental issues.

  19. Something to consider when people suggest that we can just science our way out of climate change.
    A huge number of cases, around the world, where invasive species got introduced delibetately with the best of intentions. And massive ignorance. With devistating results.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if we could “science our way out” of, for example, the Kansas grass problem. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants. Won’t happen, because gene engineering gets knee-jerk opposition. But it’s not scientifically impossible.

  20. Something to consider when people suggest that we can just science our way out of climate change.
    A huge number of cases, around the world, where invasive species got introduced delibetately with the best of intentions. And massive ignorance. With devistating results.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if we could “science our way out” of, for example, the Kansas grass problem. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants. Won’t happen, because gene engineering gets knee-jerk opposition. But it’s not scientifically impossible.

  21. hsh, when the Åland islands come up I always have to think about the fact that there are still mines in that area – from WW1!
    WW2 added chemical weapons. The allies thought it to be good idea to put them on ships and to sink those ships by means of torpedos in the general area. Fishermen in the area have always to be aware of the risk to find white phosphorous, jellied mustard gas etc. in their nets. The Baltic Sea is not very deep at the best of days.

  22. hsh, when the Åland islands come up I always have to think about the fact that there are still mines in that area – from WW1!
    WW2 added chemical weapons. The allies thought it to be good idea to put them on ships and to sink those ships by means of torpedos in the general area. Fishermen in the area have always to be aware of the risk to find white phosphorous, jellied mustard gas etc. in their nets. The Baltic Sea is not very deep at the best of days.

  25. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants.
    Viruses are subject to unplanned genetic drift. See The Death of Grass, a 1950s British science fiction novel where the apocalypse is caused by a virus that kills off most of the grain grasses (rice, wheat, etc).
    Labs have bred multiple strains of bacteria that preferentially eat crude oil and would be quite useful in cleaning up spills. No authorities have ever been brave enough to give approval to use one.

  26. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants.
    Viruses are subject to unplanned genetic drift. See The Death of Grass, a 1950s British science fiction novel where the apocalypse is caused by a virus that kills off most of the grain grasses (rice, wheat, etc).
    Labs have bred multiple strains of bacteria that preferentially eat crude oil and would be quite useful in cleaning up spills. No authorities have ever been brave enough to give approval to use one.

  27. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants.
    And what happens when your virus reaches countries where Old World Bluestem is a native plant?

  28. Gene-engineer the plant equivalent of a virus, one which attacks that specific species but not the native plants.
    And what happens when your virus reaches countries where Old World Bluestem is a native plant?

  29. And what happens when your virus reaches countries where Old World Bluestem is a native plant?
    Add in a extinction gene: one which allows the virus to replicate N times, and then die. (That is, everything in the Nth generation dies.) Again, something where the science isn’t impossible.

  30. And what happens when your virus reaches countries where Old World Bluestem is a native plant?
    Add in a extinction gene: one which allows the virus to replicate N times, and then die. (That is, everything in the Nth generation dies.) Again, something where the science isn’t impossible.

  31. Add in a extinction gene
    Again, not meaning to bust chops, but this sort of thing underlines the main idea in my post. As long as people think that just adding a bit of extinction gene to the mix is going to solve problems, they are unlikely to change their day to day behavior.

  32. Add in a extinction gene
    Again, not meaning to bust chops, but this sort of thing underlines the main idea in my post. As long as people think that just adding a bit of extinction gene to the mix is going to solve problems, they are unlikely to change their day to day behavior.

  33. Since it’s an open thread… the SCOTUS has agreed to consolidate and hear the four cases challenging the EPA’s authority to regulate green house gases. The pessimists in the commentariat at Lawyers, Guns & Money all seem convinced that not only will the Court reverse Massachusetts v. EPA but will severely roll back Congress’s authority to delegate regulatory power at all.

  34. Since it’s an open thread… the SCOTUS has agreed to consolidate and hear the four cases challenging the EPA’s authority to regulate green house gases. The pessimists in the commentariat at Lawyers, Guns & Money all seem convinced that not only will the Court reverse Massachusetts v. EPA but will severely roll back Congress’s authority to delegate regulatory power at all.

  37. Someday, AI probably will be able to great things. But that day definitely isn’t today. And it likely won’t do so reliably for quite a while.
    For the moment, AI can provide interesting suggestions for someone looking thru big amounts of data. Not answers, just indications for where it might be worth looking. Makes it useful for scientific research.
    But when we get to anything resembling value judgements, AI has huge weaknesses:

    1. The software is still at the point where developers’ personal biases can influence how the AI sees the world.
    2. At its current level of development, the selection of input data can have an outsized impact on the results.

    As so often when science and technology advances, we see wild claims about all the great things it can (supposedly already) do. Not only in areas where it really is useful, but in fields far and wide where it never will be relevant. To my mind, ethics and morals are one of the areas where useful AI is unlikely for centuries, if ever.
    Just for one reason: those judgements are very culture-dependant. Something which everybody in one culture agrees is wildly immoral may well be something which even the most uptight granny in another wouldn’t raise an eyebrow over. What would an AI do with that?

  38. Someday, AI probably will be able to great things. But that day definitely isn’t today. And it likely won’t do so reliably for quite a while.
    For the moment, AI can provide interesting suggestions for someone looking thru big amounts of data. Not answers, just indications for where it might be worth looking. Makes it useful for scientific research.
    But when we get to anything resembling value judgements, AI has huge weaknesses:

    1. The software is still at the point where developers’ personal biases can influence how the AI sees the world.
    2. At its current level of development, the selection of input data can have an outsized impact on the results.

    As so often when science and technology advances, we see wild claims about all the great things it can (supposedly already) do. Not only in areas where it really is useful, but in fields far and wide where it never will be relevant. To my mind, ethics and morals are one of the areas where useful AI is unlikely for centuries, if ever.
    Just for one reason: those judgements are very culture-dependant. Something which everybody in one culture agrees is wildly immoral may well be something which even the most uptight granny in another wouldn’t raise an eyebrow over. What would an AI do with that?

  39. Fun fact for the day: France gets over 70% of its electrical power from nuclear. Which, as a way to fight climate change, seems like a useful alternative to burning carbon.
    But it raises an obvious question: Since France isn’t exactly overrun with open, unused land to stockpile it, what happens to all that nuclear waste? And could the US do the same?
    Turns out, the French made a decision early on to recycle all that waste. Make it into new nuclear fuel to create more electricity. At this point, it has to count as a mature technology. All we have to do is decide we don’t mind borrowing from the French. (Maybe it would sell better if we characterized it as “stealing” from the French…?)
    https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/frances-efficiency-in-the-nuclear-fuel-cycle-what-can-oui-learn

  40. Fun fact for the day: France gets over 70% of its electrical power from nuclear. Which, as a way to fight climate change, seems like a useful alternative to burning carbon.
    But it raises an obvious question: Since France isn’t exactly overrun with open, unused land to stockpile it, what happens to all that nuclear waste? And could the US do the same?
    Turns out, the French made a decision early on to recycle all that waste. Make it into new nuclear fuel to create more electricity. At this point, it has to count as a mature technology. All we have to do is decide we don’t mind borrowing from the French. (Maybe it would sell better if we characterized it as “stealing” from the French…?)
    https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/frances-efficiency-in-the-nuclear-fuel-cycle-what-can-oui-learn

  41. Nuclear power in the US will have to contend with climate change related challenges. In the west the big challenge will be drought that damages efficiency and makes cooling difficult. East of the Mississippi it will be flooding and hurricanes that make things a bit scary for management.
    And as parts of the country become uninhabitable, the question of what to do with the nuclear power plants built there becomes an interesting challenge as well.
    Renewables make more sense as the near-term transitional tech because it is more flexible for scaling up and down.

  42. Nuclear power in the US will have to contend with climate change related challenges. In the west the big challenge will be drought that damages efficiency and makes cooling difficult. East of the Mississippi it will be flooding and hurricanes that make things a bit scary for management.
    And as parts of the country become uninhabitable, the question of what to do with the nuclear power plants built there becomes an interesting challenge as well.
    Renewables make more sense as the near-term transitional tech because it is more flexible for scaling up and down.

  43. FWIW, I’d be more than happy to hire the Electricite de France to build and operate nukes here, for us.
    They’re pretty good at it.
    Some problems have already been solved, at least to a degree sufficient for all practical purposes.
    Add in a extinction gene
    My own master plan for the American plains is to let several million bison loose to run free and eat all the bluestem and whatever else they like.
    Manage them as a commons, like we (try to) do with the cod fisheries.
    That region is de-populating, and has been for decades. We grow a lot of wheat in the eastern part, western part is generally given over to grazing cattle.
    As I understand it.
    Let the bison have it back. They have evolved for millenia to live there successfully. Harvest them for meat etc. in a managed way.
    Tell me why that’s a bad idea.

  44. FWIW, I’d be more than happy to hire the Electricite de France to build and operate nukes here, for us.
    They’re pretty good at it.
    Some problems have already been solved, at least to a degree sufficient for all practical purposes.
    Add in a extinction gene
    My own master plan for the American plains is to let several million bison loose to run free and eat all the bluestem and whatever else they like.
    Manage them as a commons, like we (try to) do with the cod fisheries.
    That region is de-populating, and has been for decades. We grow a lot of wheat in the eastern part, western part is generally given over to grazing cattle.
    As I understand it.
    Let the bison have it back. They have evolved for millenia to live there successfully. Harvest them for meat etc. in a managed way.
    Tell me why that’s a bad idea.

  45. Nuclear power in the US will have to contend with climate change related challenges. In the west the big challenge will be drought that damages efficiency and makes cooling difficult. East of the Mississippi it will be flooding and hurricanes that make things a bit scary for management.
    We have an electrical power grid for moving electricity around the country. It’s in bad shape, not least from the deferred maintenance fallacy. But the structure is there. And ought to be upgraded anyway.
    Which means we can site future power plants where the climate (even after changes) is compatible with cooling needs. Say along the northern border, or along the West Coast. (For those not here, the Pacific along this coast is COLD. Pop culture notwithstanding, nobody actually goes surfing in California without a wetsuit.) Maybe even pay the Canadians to site some of the plants on their turf.

  46. Nuclear power in the US will have to contend with climate change related challenges. In the west the big challenge will be drought that damages efficiency and makes cooling difficult. East of the Mississippi it will be flooding and hurricanes that make things a bit scary for management.
    We have an electrical power grid for moving electricity around the country. It’s in bad shape, not least from the deferred maintenance fallacy. But the structure is there. And ought to be upgraded anyway.
    Which means we can site future power plants where the climate (even after changes) is compatible with cooling needs. Say along the northern border, or along the West Coast. (For those not here, the Pacific along this coast is COLD. Pop culture notwithstanding, nobody actually goes surfing in California without a wetsuit.) Maybe even pay the Canadians to site some of the plants on their turf.

  47. Turns out, the French made a decision early on to recycle all that waste. Make it into new nuclear fuel to create more electricity.
    And I made a decision to farm unicorns.
    When uranium-235 fissions, it creates a soup of radioactive elements with atomic masses in the range of about 87 to 144. No one’s going to recycle them.
    What can be recycled for nuclear fuel is unfissioned U235, and plutonium-239 produced when U238 absorbs neutrons. Which is good, but it doesn’t solve the problem of nuclear waste.

  48. Turns out, the French made a decision early on to recycle all that waste. Make it into new nuclear fuel to create more electricity.
    And I made a decision to farm unicorns.
    When uranium-235 fissions, it creates a soup of radioactive elements with atomic masses in the range of about 87 to 144. No one’s going to recycle them.
    What can be recycled for nuclear fuel is unfissioned U235, and plutonium-239 produced when U238 absorbs neutrons. Which is good, but it doesn’t solve the problem of nuclear waste.

  49. Which is good, but it doesn’t solve the problem of nuclear waste.
    So where are the French putting it? Seriously, I’m curious what they are doing with it. (It’s not like they’ve got the equivalent of the Nevada desert, where nobody lives anyway.)

  50. Which is good, but it doesn’t solve the problem of nuclear waste.
    So where are the French putting it? Seriously, I’m curious what they are doing with it. (It’s not like they’ve got the equivalent of the Nevada desert, where nobody lives anyway.)

  51. France appears to be storing their long-term nuclear waste underground in Normandy, with most of the current reactor fuel scheduled to be stored in a deep facility in the Marne, farther inland in the Grand Est.

  52. France appears to be storing their long-term nuclear waste underground in Normandy, with most of the current reactor fuel scheduled to be stored in a deep facility in the Marne, farther inland in the Grand Est.

  53. Just had a bit of a discussion about this on a Japanese politics list. The Japanese left is pretty much anti-nukes and given both Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as Fukushima, it is certainly understandable. The LDP loves nuclear power because of the ability to reward patronage. Now, the left in Japan is in some ways like an appendix in that it is totally vestigal.
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/10/28/national/politics-diplomacy/japanese-communist-party-election/
    However, on the list (foreigners arguing about Japanese politics), in discussing what the progressive left should do, one person argued that he wished the left would just get over its reaction to nuclear and _on this one issue_ agree with the LDP on the resumption of construction of nuclear power. I pointed out something to the effect that agreeing with the LDP is like being a little bit pregnant. This is obviously my view, the other person isn’t here to defend themself, but that whole ‘but it is just this one issue’ reminded me of some of the debates here.

  54. Just had a bit of a discussion about this on a Japanese politics list. The Japanese left is pretty much anti-nukes and given both Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as Fukushima, it is certainly understandable. The LDP loves nuclear power because of the ability to reward patronage. Now, the left in Japan is in some ways like an appendix in that it is totally vestigal.
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/10/28/national/politics-diplomacy/japanese-communist-party-election/
    However, on the list (foreigners arguing about Japanese politics), in discussing what the progressive left should do, one person argued that he wished the left would just get over its reaction to nuclear and _on this one issue_ agree with the LDP on the resumption of construction of nuclear power. I pointed out something to the effect that agreeing with the LDP is like being a little bit pregnant. This is obviously my view, the other person isn’t here to defend themself, but that whole ‘but it is just this one issue’ reminded me of some of the debates here.

  55. I pointed out something to the effect that agreeing with the LDP is like being a little bit pregnant.
    But isn’t that just tribalism to the nth degree? That is, taking the position that agreeing with the opposition on even just one issue is tantamount to abandoning everything.

  56. I pointed out something to the effect that agreeing with the LDP is like being a little bit pregnant.
    But isn’t that just tribalism to the nth degree? That is, taking the position that agreeing with the opposition on even just one issue is tantamount to abandoning everything.

  59. Ask Mitch.
    That works. Ask Mitch . . . and then recognize that everything he says is bullsh*t, so the opposite is likely correct. (Mostly works with Trump as well.) )

  60. Ask Mitch.
    That works. Ask Mitch . . . and then recognize that everything he says is bullsh*t, so the opposite is likely correct. (Mostly works with Trump as well.) )

  61. Interesting, that was the exact argument the other person was making, but my counter was that the LDP would take that agreement and give absolutely nothing in return.
    Here’s my half of the convo, with some links that might be interesting
    ====
    I think one has to separate the world wide idea argument (do we need nuclear power world wide because of the problems with fossil fuel) from the Japanese case, which is fraught with special interests. Arguing about the former is kind of misplaced on a Japanese politics list.
    The Japanese politics angle has to include the problematic relationship between Tepco and Kan during the Fukushima disaster.
    https://www.dw.com/…/fukushima-disaster…/a-6611373
    “The disaster has not made the influential nuclear lobby any more humble. It was recently made known that the two state organizations responsible for monitoring the safety of nuclear power stations had been involved or at least turned a blind eye when TEPCO falsified safety protocols or operators put up a fight against further safety regulations. The nuclear safety agency even planted employees of the nuclear sector at awareness events so as to sway public opinion in favor of nuclear energy.
    Consequently, Kan’s government fired the three top officials at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, from the national energy agency and the agency for nuclear safety and called for an independent nuclear watchdog. The prime minister also effectively declared war against the nuclear lobby by calling for more use of renewable energies in Japan. Days later, Kan was forced to resign. His successor Yoshihiko Noda has adopted a less aggressive stance towards the nuclear sector.”
    https://www.reuters.com/…/us-japan-kan…
    “Kan, 65, stepped down last September and was replaced by current Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda after seeing his ratings sink below 20 percent over perceived policy flip-flops and dissatisfaction with his handling of the Fukushima crisis as well as what critics saw as rash and hasty decisions.
    Kan’s defenders, though, say a key cause of his downfall was his call to wean Japan from nuclear power — a stance popular with the public but opposed by many including politically powerful utilities.”
    I don’t mean to go conspiracy theory on you, but Noda’s drop in popularity was, imo, largely due to the bureaucracy slow-walking his attempts to deal with Fukushima and the Tohoku tsunami. Which got him turfed out. Perhaps there needs to be nuclear to deal with climate change, but I don’t really trust TEPCO or the Japanese nuclear power sector making that argument.
    I don’t think any observer can claim that Kan was turned out by a public unhappy with his call for Japan to pull away from nuclear. It was clearly entrenched interests that were calling the shots. So, for the particular case of Japan, I’m not really comfortable arguing that the country needs to step up on nuclear even though the majority of the population is against it. And when people make arguments about ‘the bigger picture’, it seems like the right will only be able to persuade a Japanese public by going around them rather than having them agree to the decision.
    ====
    and
    ====
    I’d argue that you are against a ‘tribalized’ response in this case because you support nuclear power, so to me, you come off like you are in the ‘punch a hippie’ camp. It all comes from where one is coming from. For me, having seen Japanese bureaucracy and Japanese rationalization cause any number of problems, and the problems with the construction industry in Japan, I don’t see how pushing for nuclear can avoid those very serious problems.
    Maybe this is the _one_ issue you feel progressives should toe the LDP line and for other things, like constitutional revision, their resistance to the Olympics, neoliberalism, dealing with women’s issues, you are support of progressive positions. And perhaps this _one_ issue is important enough that it would not run afoul of the network of payback and Japan Inc. But if that is the case, then instead of feeling the onus is on progressives to change this _one_ position on nuclear power, I’d argue that it lies on the people who have power to make some meaningful concessions in order to bring them aboard.
    Maybe not even meaningful, just stop harassing JCP politicians based on pictures they post to Twitter. That might be a place to start.
    https://lite-ra.com/2021/09/post-6030.html
    I’d observe that most of modern society, regardless of which country it is in, is constantly finding ways to claim that progressives need to move to the center.
    Your example of Germany [he argued that Germany has a similar anti nuclear left vibe] doesn’t really convince me. The German idea of feed-in tariffs was fantastic and picked up here in Japan (a guy in my PTA works for Kyushu Denki and we spent two enkais talking about it) and I think the revision of the law, which incorporates carbon neutrality is more responsible for the moves you are seeing. If something like that were pushing it, I’d be prepared to reduce my opposition. But that’s not what is happening. Japan’s efforts have been miniscule, though Suga did recently propose something (look where it got him). If a expansive carbon neutral approach were taken on here, I imagine that nuclear will be made a centerpiece of that, but if it is all smoke and mirrors, I imagine it will bite Japan on the ass (much like the poor estimation of tsunami risks are what made Fukushima a poster child for TEPCO stupidity)
    Anyway, I feel like you want to argue that you are right about nuclear power. Like Michael, I’m willing to entertain it as a bridge tech, but, like Michael pointed out, that doesn’t have any relationship to what the Japanese rightwing wants it for.
    ====

  62. Interesting, that was the exact argument the other person was making, but my counter was that the LDP would take that agreement and give absolutely nothing in return.
    Here’s my half of the convo, with some links that might be interesting
    ====
    I think one has to separate the world wide idea argument (do we need nuclear power world wide because of the problems with fossil fuel) from the Japanese case, which is fraught with special interests. Arguing about the former is kind of misplaced on a Japanese politics list.
    The Japanese politics angle has to include the problematic relationship between Tepco and Kan during the Fukushima disaster.
    https://www.dw.com/…/fukushima-disaster…/a-6611373
    “The disaster has not made the influential nuclear lobby any more humble. It was recently made known that the two state organizations responsible for monitoring the safety of nuclear power stations had been involved or at least turned a blind eye when TEPCO falsified safety protocols or operators put up a fight against further safety regulations. The nuclear safety agency even planted employees of the nuclear sector at awareness events so as to sway public opinion in favor of nuclear energy.
    Consequently, Kan’s government fired the three top officials at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, from the national energy agency and the agency for nuclear safety and called for an independent nuclear watchdog. The prime minister also effectively declared war against the nuclear lobby by calling for more use of renewable energies in Japan. Days later, Kan was forced to resign. His successor Yoshihiko Noda has adopted a less aggressive stance towards the nuclear sector.”
    https://www.reuters.com/…/us-japan-kan…
    “Kan, 65, stepped down last September and was replaced by current Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda after seeing his ratings sink below 20 percent over perceived policy flip-flops and dissatisfaction with his handling of the Fukushima crisis as well as what critics saw as rash and hasty decisions.
    Kan’s defenders, though, say a key cause of his downfall was his call to wean Japan from nuclear power — a stance popular with the public but opposed by many including politically powerful utilities.”
    I don’t mean to go conspiracy theory on you, but Noda’s drop in popularity was, imo, largely due to the bureaucracy slow-walking his attempts to deal with Fukushima and the Tohoku tsunami. Which got him turfed out. Perhaps there needs to be nuclear to deal with climate change, but I don’t really trust TEPCO or the Japanese nuclear power sector making that argument.
    I don’t think any observer can claim that Kan was turned out by a public unhappy with his call for Japan to pull away from nuclear. It was clearly entrenched interests that were calling the shots. So, for the particular case of Japan, I’m not really comfortable arguing that the country needs to step up on nuclear even though the majority of the population is against it. And when people make arguments about ‘the bigger picture’, it seems like the right will only be able to persuade a Japanese public by going around them rather than having them agree to the decision.
    ====
    and
    ====
    I’d argue that you are against a ‘tribalized’ response in this case because you support nuclear power, so to me, you come off like you are in the ‘punch a hippie’ camp. It all comes from where one is coming from. For me, having seen Japanese bureaucracy and Japanese rationalization cause any number of problems, and the problems with the construction industry in Japan, I don’t see how pushing for nuclear can avoid those very serious problems.
    Maybe this is the _one_ issue you feel progressives should toe the LDP line and for other things, like constitutional revision, their resistance to the Olympics, neoliberalism, dealing with women’s issues, you are support of progressive positions. And perhaps this _one_ issue is important enough that it would not run afoul of the network of payback and Japan Inc. But if that is the case, then instead of feeling the onus is on progressives to change this _one_ position on nuclear power, I’d argue that it lies on the people who have power to make some meaningful concessions in order to bring them aboard.
    Maybe not even meaningful, just stop harassing JCP politicians based on pictures they post to Twitter. That might be a place to start.
    https://lite-ra.com/2021/09/post-6030.html
    I’d observe that most of modern society, regardless of which country it is in, is constantly finding ways to claim that progressives need to move to the center.
    Your example of Germany [he argued that Germany has a similar anti nuclear left vibe] doesn’t really convince me. The German idea of feed-in tariffs was fantastic and picked up here in Japan (a guy in my PTA works for Kyushu Denki and we spent two enkais talking about it) and I think the revision of the law, which incorporates carbon neutrality is more responsible for the moves you are seeing. If something like that were pushing it, I’d be prepared to reduce my opposition. But that’s not what is happening. Japan’s efforts have been miniscule, though Suga did recently propose something (look where it got him). If a expansive carbon neutral approach were taken on here, I imagine that nuclear will be made a centerpiece of that, but if it is all smoke and mirrors, I imagine it will bite Japan on the ass (much like the poor estimation of tsunami risks are what made Fukushima a poster child for TEPCO stupidity)
    Anyway, I feel like you want to argue that you are right about nuclear power. Like Michael, I’m willing to entertain it as a bridge tech, but, like Michael pointed out, that doesn’t have any relationship to what the Japanese rightwing wants it for.
    ====

  63. Interesting, that was the exact argument the other person was making, but my counter was that the LDP would take that agreement and give absolutely nothing in return.
    No question, it would be nice to get something in return. But is the fact that you won’t a good reason to oppose something that you believe is a good thing to do on its own merits? Pardon me for saying that sounds very MAGA/own-the-libs.

  64. Interesting, that was the exact argument the other person was making, but my counter was that the LDP would take that agreement and give absolutely nothing in return.
    No question, it would be nice to get something in return. But is the fact that you won’t a good reason to oppose something that you believe is a good thing to do on its own merits? Pardon me for saying that sounds very MAGA/own-the-libs.

  67. Well, obviously, the context is important. If the [fill in blank] made even the slightest attempt to show some give and take, [country adjective] progressives need to be more pragmatic. However, in the case of Japan, that is not really on the table.
    Also, and I hope this point isn’t too sharp, but it suggests that this is more a force of habit, a reflex, that has you argue this. I can’t be too dismissive, I could have made those arguments 20 maybe even 10 years ago with any number of arguments. I think that happened a lot with Kaepernick taking a knee. I think it is happening a lot with the discussion about reshaping policing. I say this cause you jump in without asking any questions about the context. What is the Japanese political scene like? What has happened with the LDP? Why do I feel that the LDP is incapable of ‘moderation’. But absent any background than the links I gave, you feel that it is a problem with not being happy with half a loaf.
    I personally am not convinced that we have to go to nuclear power, unless we are bound and determined to maintain the current levels of comfort and plenty in the west. I feel like we need to be satisfied with less. You could make the argument that the electorates in the West will never be satisfied, and they have to have their cake. So I’m not so sure about the ‘merits’ of having nuclear plants on an archipelago in a particularly earthquake and tsunami prone region. But if you want to make a ‘on its own merits’, I would like to have a discussion of merits that doesn’t have the thumb of business and corporatist interests on the scale. I don’t think that is a lot to ask. But (to sound like a borken record) in order to do that, we have to give up the reflexive embrace of ‘moderation’. It’s going to get us all killed….

  68. Well, obviously, the context is important. If the [fill in blank] made even the slightest attempt to show some give and take, [country adjective] progressives need to be more pragmatic. However, in the case of Japan, that is not really on the table.
    Also, and I hope this point isn’t too sharp, but it suggests that this is more a force of habit, a reflex, that has you argue this. I can’t be too dismissive, I could have made those arguments 20 maybe even 10 years ago with any number of arguments. I think that happened a lot with Kaepernick taking a knee. I think it is happening a lot with the discussion about reshaping policing. I say this cause you jump in without asking any questions about the context. What is the Japanese political scene like? What has happened with the LDP? Why do I feel that the LDP is incapable of ‘moderation’. But absent any background than the links I gave, you feel that it is a problem with not being happy with half a loaf.
    I personally am not convinced that we have to go to nuclear power, unless we are bound and determined to maintain the current levels of comfort and plenty in the west. I feel like we need to be satisfied with less. You could make the argument that the electorates in the West will never be satisfied, and they have to have their cake. So I’m not so sure about the ‘merits’ of having nuclear plants on an archipelago in a particularly earthquake and tsunami prone region. But if you want to make a ‘on its own merits’, I would like to have a discussion of merits that doesn’t have the thumb of business and corporatist interests on the scale. I don’t think that is a lot to ask. But (to sound like a borken record) in order to do that, we have to give up the reflexive embrace of ‘moderation’. It’s going to get us all killed….

  69. I personally am not convinced that we have to go to nuclear power, unless we are bound and determined to maintain the current levels of comfort and plenty in the west. I feel like we need to be satisfied with less.
    I don’t disagree on the merits of “less.” Although my take is that it should start with those who have no grasp of the concept of “enough” — and so somehow feel that more is not only better but imperative for them personally. Even if they have no possible use for more.
    That said, I would suggest that we still need something like nuclear. Not for maintaining the current comfort levels of the West, but for giving the rest of the world a way to get somewhere close to the same level. Getting there is going to take power. If they don’t have a cheap alternative, they are going to go with burning carbon. Lots and lots of carbon.
    Agreed also with the hazards of nuclear power plants in earthquake countey. (I live on the Ring of Fire also, so I’m aware of the risks.) But just because some locations won’t work with nuclear doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used in the far more numerous places where that isn’t a significant issue. I wouldn’t recommend siting a new plant smack on the San Andreas fault (which is way overdue for a major quake). But put one in Phoenix or Dallas? Sure.

  70. I personally am not convinced that we have to go to nuclear power, unless we are bound and determined to maintain the current levels of comfort and plenty in the west. I feel like we need to be satisfied with less.
    I don’t disagree on the merits of “less.” Although my take is that it should start with those who have no grasp of the concept of “enough” — and so somehow feel that more is not only better but imperative for them personally. Even if they have no possible use for more.
    That said, I would suggest that we still need something like nuclear. Not for maintaining the current comfort levels of the West, but for giving the rest of the world a way to get somewhere close to the same level. Getting there is going to take power. If they don’t have a cheap alternative, they are going to go with burning carbon. Lots and lots of carbon.
    Agreed also with the hazards of nuclear power plants in earthquake countey. (I live on the Ring of Fire also, so I’m aware of the risks.) But just because some locations won’t work with nuclear doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used in the far more numerous places where that isn’t a significant issue. I wouldn’t recommend siting a new plant smack on the San Andreas fault (which is way overdue for a major quake). But put one in Phoenix or Dallas? Sure.

  73. The only way I would trust humans with nuclear power is those directly profiting being forced to live permanently on location, so they are the first to suffer the consequences of corrupt undercutting of safety. Any violations should be punished by a mandatory bath in the spent fuel pool.

  74. The only way I would trust humans with nuclear power is those directly profiting being forced to live permanently on location, so they are the first to suffer the consequences of corrupt undercutting of safety. Any violations should be punished by a mandatory bath in the spent fuel pool.

  75. But put one in Phoenix or Dallas? Sure.
    Not sure what the Japanese equivalents of those two towns are.
    But the fact that you acknowledge the hesitancy puts you in the same ballpark as the Japanese public (this link is pretty amazing at the way they spin things
    https://www.jaif.or.jp/en/japanese-opinion-poll-finds-that-views-on-nuclear-power-turn-slightly-positive/
    So, do you still think the Japanese left is wrong to oppose nuclear power? And do you think it is an example of the inability of leftists to compromise? Cause it really doesn’t look like that to me.

  76. But put one in Phoenix or Dallas? Sure.
    Not sure what the Japanese equivalents of those two towns are.
    But the fact that you acknowledge the hesitancy puts you in the same ballpark as the Japanese public (this link is pretty amazing at the way they spin things
    https://www.jaif.or.jp/en/japanese-opinion-poll-finds-that-views-on-nuclear-power-turn-slightly-positive/
    So, do you still think the Japanese left is wrong to oppose nuclear power? And do you think it is an example of the inability of leftists to compromise? Cause it really doesn’t look like that to me.

  77. The problem with Phoenix and (to a lesser? extent Dallas) is cooling water.
    But there’s already the Palo Verde plant, about 50 miles from Phoenix, so you could say “done!”.
    The trend for the cost of solar is making just about everything else uncompetitive, although there really needs better ‘energy storage’ to go with it.

  78. The problem with Phoenix and (to a lesser? extent Dallas) is cooling water.
    But there’s already the Palo Verde plant, about 50 miles from Phoenix, so you could say “done!”.
    The trend for the cost of solar is making just about everything else uncompetitive, although there really needs better ‘energy storage’ to go with it.

  79. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.

  80. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.

  81. …or along the West Coast. (For those not here, the Pacific along this coast is COLD…
    With an ecology geared to that. Diablo Canyon is shutting down because it will not be able to meet the new California standards for heat discharge into coastal waters at any reasonable cost.
    This is an ongoing problem for US nukes (and other thermal plants) in several places. Oyster Creek in NJ was closed because it could not meet thermal discharge standards for the bay it used for cooling. During the last big Texas drought, the pair of nukes south of Dallas had to throttle back because their cooling reservoir was too hot. Southern Co. has spent a ton of money in the Southeast retrofitting thermal power plants (not just nukes) to use consumptive cooling water because they were facing summer shutdowns to avoid overheating the rivers they used for cooling. Palo Verde’s water source is second- or third-generation gray water and their contract for that expires in 2050.

  82. …or along the West Coast. (For those not here, the Pacific along this coast is COLD…
    With an ecology geared to that. Diablo Canyon is shutting down because it will not be able to meet the new California standards for heat discharge into coastal waters at any reasonable cost.
    This is an ongoing problem for US nukes (and other thermal plants) in several places. Oyster Creek in NJ was closed because it could not meet thermal discharge standards for the bay it used for cooling. During the last big Texas drought, the pair of nukes south of Dallas had to throttle back because their cooling reservoir was too hot. Southern Co. has spent a ton of money in the Southeast retrofitting thermal power plants (not just nukes) to use consumptive cooling water because they were facing summer shutdowns to avoid overheating the rivers they used for cooling. Palo Verde’s water source is second- or third-generation gray water and their contract for that expires in 2050.

  89. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.
    Take the subsidies and the hidden externalities out of the discount to fossil fuel’s cost and efficiency and maybe we can talk. The critical articles that say solar isn’t there yet never do this. They stop at antithesis and never attempt a thorough evaluation and synthesis.
    They are not after solutions, they are there to keep fossil fuels in the conversation for as long as possible.
    Fossil fuels aren’t “there” yet and will never be “there.” The question should always be “how little can we survive on?.” And once we have that answer, the next question should be “how can we make that amount smaller?” until we’ve shifted the carbon balance back to previous levels.

  90. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.
    Take the subsidies and the hidden externalities out of the discount to fossil fuel’s cost and efficiency and maybe we can talk. The critical articles that say solar isn’t there yet never do this. They stop at antithesis and never attempt a thorough evaluation and synthesis.
    They are not after solutions, they are there to keep fossil fuels in the conversation for as long as possible.
    Fossil fuels aren’t “there” yet and will never be “there.” The question should always be “how little can we survive on?.” And once we have that answer, the next question should be “how can we make that amount smaller?” until we’ve shifted the carbon balance back to previous levels.

  91. Don’t forget that some red states thought about levelling extra taxes on renewables because they threatened the degree of profitability of fossil fuels (competition is a completely un-American concept as far as some industries are concerned).

  92. Don’t forget that some red states thought about levelling extra taxes on renewables because they threatened the degree of profitability of fossil fuels (competition is a completely un-American concept as far as some industries are concerned).

  93. I keep leaving out the “k” in my handle.
    it’s the Quick Draw McGraw version:
    “I’ll do the thin’ing around here…”

  94. I keep leaving out the “k” in my handle.
    it’s the Quick Draw McGraw version:
    “I’ll do the thin’ing around here…”

  95. Commercial production of ‘green’ hydrogen via electrolysis is just starting to be a real thing. Other chemical feedstocks via renewables will follow.
    Other storage technologies are improving rapidly.
    If governments worldwide set the right conditions, good stuff will happen much faster – but that means making fossil fuels significantly more expensive.
    As a wild card, fusion power looks a fairly realistic prospect for the first time ever.

  96. Commercial production of ‘green’ hydrogen via electrolysis is just starting to be a real thing. Other chemical feedstocks via renewables will follow.
    Other storage technologies are improving rapidly.
    If governments worldwide set the right conditions, good stuff will happen much faster – but that means making fossil fuels significantly more expensive.
    As a wild card, fusion power looks a fairly realistic prospect for the first time ever.

  101. Charles: “but that means making fossil fuels people’s lives significantly more expensive difficult.”
    How so? I mean beyond your blanket belief that anything and everything the government might do makes everybody’s life more difficult.
    I’d think you’d be all in on removing government subsidies for something — in this case, fossil fuels. But apparently not.

  102. Charles: “but that means making fossil fuels people’s lives significantly more expensive difficult.”
    How so? I mean beyond your blanket belief that anything and everything the government might do makes everybody’s life more difficult.
    I’d think you’d be all in on removing government subsidies for something — in this case, fossil fuels. But apparently not.

  105. that means making fossil fuels people’s lives significantly more expensive difficult.
    I’m gonna say this three times, so that maybe it will sink in.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    The option of continuing as we are is not available. Continuing as we are will continue to affect climate, which will… make it impossible to continue as we are.
    I understand that you have a reflexive aversion to activist government. There are not many actors available who are capable of acting at the scale that will be required. So public action – including public intervention in the economy in a variety of ways – is going to have to be part of the mix.

  106. that means making fossil fuels people’s lives significantly more expensive difficult.
    I’m gonna say this three times, so that maybe it will sink in.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    The option of continuing as we are is not available. Continuing as we are will continue to affect climate, which will… make it impossible to continue as we are.
    I understand that you have a reflexive aversion to activist government. There are not many actors available who are capable of acting at the scale that will be required. So public action – including public intervention in the economy in a variety of ways – is going to have to be part of the mix.

  107. Continuing as we are will continue to affect climate, which will… make it impossible to continue as we are.
    But perhaps Charles is wealthy enough that he can assume (incorrectly) that he won’t be impacted. That is, he personally can keep on. So why worry about anyone else?

  108. Continuing as we are will continue to affect climate, which will… make it impossible to continue as we are.
    But perhaps Charles is wealthy enough that he can assume (incorrectly) that he won’t be impacted. That is, he personally can keep on. So why worry about anyone else?

  109. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.
    If the US were to have a continental grid adapted fully for renewables, that ‘backup’ needn’t be very much at all.
    Of course some have, for now, opted out completely from any such idea…
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-power-failure-could-finally-cause-texas-to-connect-with-the-nations-power-grids1/

  110. Until there’s a vast amount of cheap and efficient storage, the cost of solar, and wind, will have to include the cost of the coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants to back it up.
    If the US were to have a continental grid adapted fully for renewables, that ‘backup’ needn’t be very much at all.
    Of course some have, for now, opted out completely from any such idea…
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-power-failure-could-finally-cause-texas-to-connect-with-the-nations-power-grids1/

  111. Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Echoing what LBJ said about convincing “the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man”, as long as Real Muricans are better off than [insert insulting name for a particular nationality here], we’ll be alright.

  112. Continuing as we are will make people’s lives equally difficult. For many people, much much worse.
    Echoing what LBJ said about convincing “the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man”, as long as Real Muricans are better off than [insert insulting name for a particular nationality here], we’ll be alright.

  113. as long as Real Muricans are better off than [insert insulting name for a particular nationality here], we’ll be alright.
    Happily, there’s always “alternate facts”(TM) to keep us persuaded.

  114. as long as Real Muricans are better off than [insert insulting name for a particular nationality here], we’ll be alright.
    Happily, there’s always “alternate facts”(TM) to keep us persuaded.

  115. Open thread, right? OK:
    I was just listening to the SCOTUS oral arguments over Texas SB8, the abortion vigilante law. The US seeks to enjoin Texas from enforcing SB8. Texas responds that there’s nothing to enjoin since it’s not the State, but private individuals who are authorized to sue abortion providers, counselors, recipients, etc.
    My question: is Texas saying that Texas LEOs would NOT enforce any judgements that Texas courts might enter in favor of the vigilantes SB8 empowers?
    Suppose Mrs. Church Lady sues Planned Parenthood for providing an abortion; Planned Parenthood spends neither a dime nor a minute defending against the suit; the Texas court awards Mrs. Church Lady the $10K minimum bounty by default. How can Mrs. Church Lady collect $10K from Planned Parenthood without LEOs in the pay of the Great State of Texas getting involved?
    I would be especially interested to hear a lawyer’s answer to this question. A Texas lawyer’s answer would be especially welcome.
    –TP

  116. Open thread, right? OK:
    I was just listening to the SCOTUS oral arguments over Texas SB8, the abortion vigilante law. The US seeks to enjoin Texas from enforcing SB8. Texas responds that there’s nothing to enjoin since it’s not the State, but private individuals who are authorized to sue abortion providers, counselors, recipients, etc.
    My question: is Texas saying that Texas LEOs would NOT enforce any judgements that Texas courts might enter in favor of the vigilantes SB8 empowers?
    Suppose Mrs. Church Lady sues Planned Parenthood for providing an abortion; Planned Parenthood spends neither a dime nor a minute defending against the suit; the Texas court awards Mrs. Church Lady the $10K minimum bounty by default. How can Mrs. Church Lady collect $10K from Planned Parenthood without LEOs in the pay of the Great State of Texas getting involved?
    I would be especially interested to hear a lawyer’s answer to this question. A Texas lawyer’s answer would be especially welcome.
    –TP

  117. A number of interests should hope the SCOTUS doesn’t let the law stand. Otherwise, states might pass similar laws. Maybe laws concerning gun shops and gun owners.

  118. A number of interests should hope the SCOTUS doesn’t let the law stand. Otherwise, states might pass similar laws. Maybe laws concerning gun shops and gun owners.

  119. Maybe laws concerning gun shops and gun owners.
    I believe the Feds have raised exactly that issue in their brief. The Court would need to parse its decision in favor of Texas (assuming they go that way) with extreme care. Otherwise look for New York, for example, to write something parallel by way of gun control. Even to the point of making anything but single shot hunting rifles illegal to own.

  120. Maybe laws concerning gun shops and gun owners.
    I believe the Feds have raised exactly that issue in their brief. The Court would need to parse its decision in favor of Texas (assuming they go that way) with extreme care. Otherwise look for New York, for example, to write something parallel by way of gun control. Even to the point of making anything but single shot hunting rifles illegal to own.

  121. “Even to the point of making anything but single shot hunting rifles illegal to own.”
    Too loose. Only muzzleloaders. Maybe even limit it to arquebuses and other matchlocks, so you can only shoot someone when it isn’t raining.

  122. “Even to the point of making anything but single shot hunting rifles illegal to own.”
    Too loose. Only muzzleloaders. Maybe even limit it to arquebuses and other matchlocks, so you can only shoot someone when it isn’t raining.

  125. A book I ordered in the US is a month overdue by now. If it wasn’t for the transport crisis and Mr.DeJoy, I’d have already complained. The ‘it’s on the way’ notification was very quick, so if that was true, it must be the mail/parcel service that’s responsible (or customs).

  126. A book I ordered in the US is a month overdue by now. If it wasn’t for the transport crisis and Mr.DeJoy, I’d have already complained. The ‘it’s on the way’ notification was very quick, so if that was true, it must be the mail/parcel service that’s responsible (or customs).

  127. A book I ordered in the US is a month overdue by now.
    Charlie Stross warned people most of a month ago that if they wanted a paper copy of his new Laundry-verse novel they should preorder soon. His publishers had warned him that if sales were good and a second press run was required, it would be much longer than the usual 1-2 week delay for that second printing.

  128. A book I ordered in the US is a month overdue by now.
    Charlie Stross warned people most of a month ago that if they wanted a paper copy of his new Laundry-verse novel they should preorder soon. His publishers had warned him that if sales were good and a second press run was required, it would be much longer than the usual 1-2 week delay for that second printing.

  129. The newest from Manchin:

    Senator Joe Manchin III of West Virginia on Monday all but dashed hopes for quick votes this week on President Biden’s domestic agenda, saying he would not endorse a $1.85 trillion social policy and climate package without ample time to consider its economic and fiscal ramifications.

    He seems also to renew his demands to pass the other bill first as a precondition for him – maybe – considering the big one. Plus he complains about the other side* being unwilling to compromise and playing ‘political games’ instead.
    Who could have predicted that?
    And it be well for that knowlessman that he should not be here, for he should be taken from this place and his gaskin slit, his moules shown to the four winds, his welchet torn asunder with many hooks and his figgin placed upon a spike.
    I would also add stoning with unadulterated WV coal and sending him adrift in his houseboat during hurricane season.
    *not the GOP, just to be clear

  130. The newest from Manchin:

    Senator Joe Manchin III of West Virginia on Monday all but dashed hopes for quick votes this week on President Biden’s domestic agenda, saying he would not endorse a $1.85 trillion social policy and climate package without ample time to consider its economic and fiscal ramifications.

    He seems also to renew his demands to pass the other bill first as a precondition for him – maybe – considering the big one. Plus he complains about the other side* being unwilling to compromise and playing ‘political games’ instead.
    Who could have predicted that?
    And it be well for that knowlessman that he should not be here, for he should be taken from this place and his gaskin slit, his moules shown to the four winds, his welchet torn asunder with many hooks and his figgin placed upon a spike.
    I would also add stoning with unadulterated WV coal and sending him adrift in his houseboat during hurricane season.
    *not the GOP, just to be clear

  131. A year from now, when the great BBB is finally passed with funding of $25billion, we call celebrate the great achievement of “give and take”, “compromise”, and “moderation”.
    Can’t wait.
    Bottom line: He offers nothing.
    I can understand his so-called fealty to what is purported to be an utterly reactionary set of voters in his state, but he also swore an oath to the Constitution and our national general welfare. He does call himself a “Democrat”, but he renders the term meaningless. And his place in history? We can only hope it shall be utterly shameful.
    What a fucking pig.

  132. A year from now, when the great BBB is finally passed with funding of $25billion, we call celebrate the great achievement of “give and take”, “compromise”, and “moderation”.
    Can’t wait.
    Bottom line: He offers nothing.
    I can understand his so-called fealty to what is purported to be an utterly reactionary set of voters in his state, but he also swore an oath to the Constitution and our national general welfare. He does call himself a “Democrat”, but he renders the term meaningless. And his place in history? We can only hope it shall be utterly shameful.
    What a fucking pig.

  133. The two ports in California are among the most inefficient in the world never mind the country. The most efficient ports in the US have trouble breaking the top 50 in the world.
    On the container chassis shortage, they’re available from China. With a 250% tariff.

  134. The two ports in California are among the most inefficient in the world never mind the country. The most efficient ports in the US have trouble breaking the top 50 in the world.
    On the container chassis shortage, they’re available from China. With a 250% tariff.

  135. The most efficient ports in the US have trouble breaking the top 50 in the world.
    US ports are some of the few in the world not completely owned and operated by the national government. Given that LA involves two port authorities, several cities, overlapping special districts, the state, and the federal government for limited things, it’s kind of interesting that it functions as well as it does. Iowa’s pair of Senators get as big a say in whether the Ports of LA and Long Beach can dredge a bigger channel as the Senators from California. More than the Port Authorities’ boards.
    Full-on federal ownership and control of operations doesn’t sound like something you’d favor, Charles.

  136. The most efficient ports in the US have trouble breaking the top 50 in the world.
    US ports are some of the few in the world not completely owned and operated by the national government. Given that LA involves two port authorities, several cities, overlapping special districts, the state, and the federal government for limited things, it’s kind of interesting that it functions as well as it does. Iowa’s pair of Senators get as big a say in whether the Ports of LA and Long Beach can dredge a bigger channel as the Senators from California. More than the Port Authorities’ boards.
    Full-on federal ownership and control of operations doesn’t sound like something you’d favor, Charles.

  137. Full-on federal ownership and control of operations doesn’t sound like something you’d favor, Charles.
    Ownership might be OK if the government didn’t operate the ports. A model might be the Canadian air traffic control system that is operated by a corporation owned by stakeholders including the Canadian government.
    The Port of Yokohama has been rated the world’s most efficient container port. The best I can tell government is somewhat at arm’s length from the operation of the port.

  138. Full-on federal ownership and control of operations doesn’t sound like something you’d favor, Charles.
    Ownership might be OK if the government didn’t operate the ports. A model might be the Canadian air traffic control system that is operated by a corporation owned by stakeholders including the Canadian government.
    The Port of Yokohama has been rated the world’s most efficient container port. The best I can tell government is somewhat at arm’s length from the operation of the port.

  139. US major international ports (never mind the others) have the usual problem of way too many years without expansion to handle increasing loads. Or, in some cases, not even with adequate maintenance to keep up with traffic substantially heavier than envisioned when they were set up.

  140. US major international ports (never mind the others) have the usual problem of way too many years without expansion to handle increasing loads. Or, in some cases, not even with adequate maintenance to keep up with traffic substantially heavier than envisioned when they were set up.

  141. The best I can tell government is somewhat at arm’s length from the operation of the port.
    Look closer
    http://www.yokohamaport.co.jp.e.df.hp.transer.com/utilization/law/
    https://www.mlit.go.jp/english/2006/k_port_and_harbors_bureau/04_super/index.html
    Based on a partial revision of the Port and Harbor Law in July 2005, Japan has now established a system for long-term leasing of berths and terminal yards and a system of interest-free loans for construction of freight loading facilities from Fiscal 2005 for the private businesses (authorized operators) that will manage the designated international container wharves, based on the designation of Keihin Port, the Port of Nagoya and the Port of Yokkaichi, and the Port of Osaka and the Port of Kobe as specific designated important ports (super hub ports), with the goal of promoting the projects.

    In addition, a lot of work by the central and local governments to make sure that transport connections (roads, rail, etc) are kept up-to-date to make sure that smooth transport access is guaranteed.
    I know that you can’t help it, but just a momentary pause might have you realize that the idea of a port being operated ‘at arm’s length’ from the government is basically an impossibility unless you are cosplaying Jack Sparrow….

  142. The best I can tell government is somewhat at arm’s length from the operation of the port.
    Look closer
    http://www.yokohamaport.co.jp.e.df.hp.transer.com/utilization/law/
    https://www.mlit.go.jp/english/2006/k_port_and_harbors_bureau/04_super/index.html
    Based on a partial revision of the Port and Harbor Law in July 2005, Japan has now established a system for long-term leasing of berths and terminal yards and a system of interest-free loans for construction of freight loading facilities from Fiscal 2005 for the private businesses (authorized operators) that will manage the designated international container wharves, based on the designation of Keihin Port, the Port of Nagoya and the Port of Yokkaichi, and the Port of Osaka and the Port of Kobe as specific designated important ports (super hub ports), with the goal of promoting the projects.

    In addition, a lot of work by the central and local governments to make sure that transport connections (roads, rail, etc) are kept up-to-date to make sure that smooth transport access is guaranteed.
    I know that you can’t help it, but just a momentary pause might have you realize that the idea of a port being operated ‘at arm’s length’ from the government is basically an impossibility unless you are cosplaying Jack Sparrow….

  145. Interesting Twitter thread on the LA problems.
    https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
    From what ai can see, the California ports are simply way too small for the size of the economy, and the big rise in demand has gridlocked them.
    I’m not convinced that the precise mix of government versus private control is the most important metric.
    The latest solution – a proposed draconian tax on empty shipping containers (as opposed to ideas about how to shift the gridlock).- looks nuts.

  146. Interesting Twitter thread on the LA problems.
    https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834
    From what ai can see, the California ports are simply way too small for the size of the economy, and the big rise in demand has gridlocked them.
    I’m not convinced that the precise mix of government versus private control is the most important metric.
    The latest solution – a proposed draconian tax on empty shipping containers (as opposed to ideas about how to shift the gridlock).- looks nuts.

  151. I suspect there are PhD projects for years in the analysis of how badly cargo transport is screwed up in the US. Recently, Chicago railyards were so full of containers waiting to get sorted and put on trains that the UP and BNSF said they were going to reduce container train runs out of the West Coast ports. The Ports of LA/LB are spending a lot of money to increase rail capacity out of the ports, but the end customers have started saying they want to remove their containers by truck to avoid paying the BNSF and UP fees for the use of the Alameda Corridor. California air quality boards, at the same time, are putting in rules that most existing trucks can’t meet.

  152. I suspect there are PhD projects for years in the analysis of how badly cargo transport is screwed up in the US. Recently, Chicago railyards were so full of containers waiting to get sorted and put on trains that the UP and BNSF said they were going to reduce container train runs out of the West Coast ports. The Ports of LA/LB are spending a lot of money to increase rail capacity out of the ports, but the end customers have started saying they want to remove their containers by truck to avoid paying the BNSF and UP fees for the use of the Alameda Corridor. California air quality boards, at the same time, are putting in rules that most existing trucks can’t meet.

  155. I suspect there are PhD projects for years in the analysis of how badly cargo transport is screwed up in the US.
    Here’s one think tank’s analysis of the problem.
    “So What’s the ‘Shipping Crisis’?
    As detailed in numerous reports, American ports and rail terminals are struggling to cope with unprecedented surges of imports from Asia, a situation likely to continue into next year and contributing to both U.S. companies’ supply chain woes and broader inflationary pressures. Shipping containers are piling up by the thousands, leading to higher shipping costs (both ocean and inland freight) and U.S. exporters—mainly of agricultural products—lacking the empty containers they need to send their goods abroad. Importers are also reeling. The disruption is so bad that the head of the American Apparel Association recently urged consumers to do their Christmas shopping in the summer.”
    America’s Ports Problem Is Decades in the Making: Systemic problems and bad policy have exacerbated pandemic‐​related shipping delays.
    Worldwide in recent decades, there’s been a movement away from publicly owned and operated ports to public-private partnerships and privatization.

  156. I suspect there are PhD projects for years in the analysis of how badly cargo transport is screwed up in the US.
    Here’s one think tank’s analysis of the problem.
    “So What’s the ‘Shipping Crisis’?
    As detailed in numerous reports, American ports and rail terminals are struggling to cope with unprecedented surges of imports from Asia, a situation likely to continue into next year and contributing to both U.S. companies’ supply chain woes and broader inflationary pressures. Shipping containers are piling up by the thousands, leading to higher shipping costs (both ocean and inland freight) and U.S. exporters—mainly of agricultural products—lacking the empty containers they need to send their goods abroad. Importers are also reeling. The disruption is so bad that the head of the American Apparel Association recently urged consumers to do their Christmas shopping in the summer.”
    America’s Ports Problem Is Decades in the Making: Systemic problems and bad policy have exacerbated pandemic‐​related shipping delays.
    Worldwide in recent decades, there’s been a movement away from publicly owned and operated ports to public-private partnerships and privatization.

  157. https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/inside-dallas-qanon-conference/
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanoners-gather-for-trump-announcement-from-jfk-jr-22-years-after-his-death
    Nuking Texas would only eliminate maybe 5% of the fascist conservative vermin in America. I hope Chinese and Russian military strategists take note.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/1/2061448/-Why-Christian-intellectuals-are-more-dangerous-than-Trump
    Violent insurrection and murder are now a conservative movement event planning puke funnel playdate for republican cuck filth.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/jan-6-organizers-are-raking-it-in-with-donald-trump-and-gop-groups?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
    Have we noticed that gun manufacturers, which are arming the subhuman conservative movement right wing to kill all of us are the only industry whose death products and distribution are not being affected by the worldwide supply chain distribution, deliberately created by the Trump conservative movement itself over the past five years to sow chaos and inflation in America?
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/02/silence/
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/supreme-court-conservative-justices-abortion-texas
    There is no rule of law. Fuck all conservative courts, judges, and law enforcement.
    Conservatives will never be prosecuted sufficiently, with the death penalty, for what they have done to this country.
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/01/the-late-great-planet-earth-1/
    Think elections might ever be free again? Cut to the chase and fuck that notion.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/florida-votings-rights-lawsuit/620567/
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/01/speaking-of-grifts/
    Those three plaintives need to become heavily armed with deadly military grade weaponry and wrest their freedoms away from the genocidal Florida Governor.
    They won’t. But they will be murdered for their troubles in the coming civil war by pigfucker DeSantis’ fascist conservative movement.
    And yet, the bar is so buried in the fascist muck, that DeSantis looks good to dumb slime like Friedersdorf.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/ron-desantis-never-trump/620568/
    The tipping point of stupidity is past and stupidity, homegrown and nurtured by the conservative movement, is heavily armed to murder us:
    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab
    Here’s some:
    https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-nurse-refuse-vaccine-filmed-escorted-away-from-job-kaiser-permanente-20211101-qmm4ph3nmvhizjmciyqioc7vl4-story.html
    She’s a fucking suicide bomber. Hunks of deadly metal wrapped in pigfucking conservaative, fake Christian Rod Dreher murderous piety.
    But oh so sincere, like all stupid conservatives. Her personal, constitutionally protected beliefs are nothing but truck bombs in a crowded hospital parking lot, but I notice the Founders have all flown the coup so thay can’t be held personally responsible.
    So-called moderate conservatives won’t lift a finger for fear of blemishing their stinking fucking non-hypocritical sincerity.
    Let the fentanyl in, Joe. Ship it to red states labeled as baby food.

  158. https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/inside-dallas-qanon-conference/
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanoners-gather-for-trump-announcement-from-jfk-jr-22-years-after-his-death
    Nuking Texas would only eliminate maybe 5% of the fascist conservative vermin in America. I hope Chinese and Russian military strategists take note.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/1/2061448/-Why-Christian-intellectuals-are-more-dangerous-than-Trump
    Violent insurrection and murder are now a conservative movement event planning puke funnel playdate for republican cuck filth.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/jan-6-organizers-are-raking-it-in-with-donald-trump-and-gop-groups?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
    Have we noticed that gun manufacturers, which are arming the subhuman conservative movement right wing to kill all of us are the only industry whose death products and distribution are not being affected by the worldwide supply chain distribution, deliberately created by the Trump conservative movement itself over the past five years to sow chaos and inflation in America?
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/02/silence/
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/supreme-court-conservative-justices-abortion-texas
    There is no rule of law. Fuck all conservative courts, judges, and law enforcement.
    Conservatives will never be prosecuted sufficiently, with the death penalty, for what they have done to this country.
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/01/the-late-great-planet-earth-1/
    Think elections might ever be free again? Cut to the chase and fuck that notion.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/florida-votings-rights-lawsuit/620567/
    https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/01/speaking-of-grifts/
    Those three plaintives need to become heavily armed with deadly military grade weaponry and wrest their freedoms away from the genocidal Florida Governor.
    They won’t. But they will be murdered for their troubles in the coming civil war by pigfucker DeSantis’ fascist conservative movement.
    And yet, the bar is so buried in the fascist muck, that DeSantis looks good to dumb slime like Friedersdorf.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/ron-desantis-never-trump/620568/
    The tipping point of stupidity is past and stupidity, homegrown and nurtured by the conservative movement, is heavily armed to murder us:
    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab
    Here’s some:
    https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-nurse-refuse-vaccine-filmed-escorted-away-from-job-kaiser-permanente-20211101-qmm4ph3nmvhizjmciyqioc7vl4-story.html
    She’s a fucking suicide bomber. Hunks of deadly metal wrapped in pigfucking conservaative, fake Christian Rod Dreher murderous piety.
    But oh so sincere, like all stupid conservatives. Her personal, constitutionally protected beliefs are nothing but truck bombs in a crowded hospital parking lot, but I notice the Founders have all flown the coup so thay can’t be held personally responsible.
    So-called moderate conservatives won’t lift a finger for fear of blemishing their stinking fucking non-hypocritical sincerity.
    Let the fentanyl in, Joe. Ship it to red states labeled as baby food.

  159. https://www.hillebrand.com/media/publication/where-are-all-the-containers-the-global-shortage-explained
    I know from years of looking at the shipping and container industries as a place to invest that shipping container manufacturers haven’t been producing enough containers for years before Covid-19, because of profitability concerns.
    The government didn’t make them stop.
    It was fully a shortage manufactured by the logic of the for-profit system.
    Just as oil and gas producers shut in their drilling in the Bakken and Permian Basin becuase they so over-produced and destroyed the price structure of carbon-based energy on the downside previous to Covid-19 that they had to cause a shortage via vast underprodction to boost profits for shareholders again.
    Now the drillers are paying dividends to pissed-off shareholders to appease them and admit they are not rushing to bring on new production because shareholders would abandon the shares if oil prices drop again.
    Ya know, fucking inflation at the gas pump and the coal bin and the natural gas pipelines.
    Manchin worries about coal price inflation, my fucking ass.
    The government has nothing to do with any of it.
    But manly conservative profit-seeking men pee their pants and whine:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/did-i-say-alpha-i-meant-alfalfa
    Hey look, murderers posing for selfies:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/the-texas-way-of-death
    That IS government’s fault. Fascist Conservative movement Republican murderous Christian government.
    Get to work, Texas Libertarians.
    What the fuck are the guns for, anyway?

  160. https://www.hillebrand.com/media/publication/where-are-all-the-containers-the-global-shortage-explained
    I know from years of looking at the shipping and container industries as a place to invest that shipping container manufacturers haven’t been producing enough containers for years before Covid-19, because of profitability concerns.
    The government didn’t make them stop.
    It was fully a shortage manufactured by the logic of the for-profit system.
    Just as oil and gas producers shut in their drilling in the Bakken and Permian Basin becuase they so over-produced and destroyed the price structure of carbon-based energy on the downside previous to Covid-19 that they had to cause a shortage via vast underprodction to boost profits for shareholders again.
    Now the drillers are paying dividends to pissed-off shareholders to appease them and admit they are not rushing to bring on new production because shareholders would abandon the shares if oil prices drop again.
    Ya know, fucking inflation at the gas pump and the coal bin and the natural gas pipelines.
    Manchin worries about coal price inflation, my fucking ass.
    The government has nothing to do with any of it.
    But manly conservative profit-seeking men pee their pants and whine:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/did-i-say-alpha-i-meant-alfalfa
    Hey look, murderers posing for selfies:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/the-texas-way-of-death
    That IS government’s fault. Fascist Conservative movement Republican murderous Christian government.
    Get to work, Texas Libertarians.
    What the fuck are the guns for, anyway?

  161. Worldwide in recent decades, there’s been a movement away from publicly owned and operated ports to public-private partnerships and privatization.
    Cui bono?

  162. Worldwide in recent decades, there’s been a movement away from publicly owned and operated ports to public-private partnerships and privatization.
    Cui bono?

  163. From what ai can see, the California ports are simply way too small for the size of the economy, and the big rise in demand has gridlocked them.
    I don’t know about LA (or Seattle), but in addition to the problems with the Port of Oakland itself, there is a further problem: The freeways around the port are also way too small. For regular traffic**, never mind the port traffic on top of it. Clear the on-port bottlenecks, and the clog just moves a mile away to the freeways. No plans (that I know of) to double the size of the local freeway network.
    ** They were OK for the traffic of the 1960s, when they were built. But the population here is up enormously. Even with traffic way down due to covid and people working from home, rush hour still sees gridlock.

  164. From what ai can see, the California ports are simply way too small for the size of the economy, and the big rise in demand has gridlocked them.
    I don’t know about LA (or Seattle), but in addition to the problems with the Port of Oakland itself, there is a further problem: The freeways around the port are also way too small. For regular traffic**, never mind the port traffic on top of it. Clear the on-port bottlenecks, and the clog just moves a mile away to the freeways. No plans (that I know of) to double the size of the local freeway network.
    ** They were OK for the traffic of the 1960s, when they were built. But the population here is up enormously. Even with traffic way down due to covid and people working from home, rush hour still sees gridlock.

  165. Avis, always Number 2:
    https://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=CAR&insttype=Stock
    The car rental companies retired and sold off their fleets during the Covid-19 epidemic as a matter of MBA for-profit logic, deliberately causing a shortage of vehicles and an explosion in rental car inflation as customers returned.
    Government did nothing.
    But I’m sure there’s a dumbass conservative/libertarian tooling down some gummint subsidized highway at this moment in a rented Lexus swearing at the Federal Reserve and Biden for ruining his or her or its day.

  166. Avis, always Number 2:
    https://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=CAR&insttype=Stock
    The car rental companies retired and sold off their fleets during the Covid-19 epidemic as a matter of MBA for-profit logic, deliberately causing a shortage of vehicles and an explosion in rental car inflation as customers returned.
    Government did nothing.
    But I’m sure there’s a dumbass conservative/libertarian tooling down some gummint subsidized highway at this moment in a rented Lexus swearing at the Federal Reserve and Biden for ruining his or her or its day.

  167. wj – the research I’ve seen suggests that widening freeways does little for traffic problems because it increases the volume of traffic enough on those freeways to recreate the same overall problem. That’s why all the construction on the LA freeways never leads to smoother flowing traffic. The concentrations create their own problems of scale.
    How much freight gets moved by rail in the most efficient ports? How much do those local and national governments invest in transportation infrastructure?

  168. wj – the research I’ve seen suggests that widening freeways does little for traffic problems because it increases the volume of traffic enough on those freeways to recreate the same overall problem. That’s why all the construction on the LA freeways never leads to smoother flowing traffic. The concentrations create their own problems of scale.
    How much freight gets moved by rail in the most efficient ports? How much do those local and national governments invest in transportation infrastructure?

  169. Every America deserves their very own private road, the pavement laid down in front of them as they drive whereever they please.
    No trespassing.

  170. Every America deserves their very own private road, the pavement laid down in front of them as they drive whereever they please.
    No trespassing.

  171. the research I’ve seen suggests that widening freeways does little for traffic problems because it increases the volume of traffic enough on those freeways to recreate the same overall problem.
    Certainly you have to increase capacity far enough out that you don’t just move the bottleneck. But I question the implication that increasing capacity can’t ever improve the situation.
    Pretty obviously there is a maximum possible demand. When your capacity is below that, things back up. (This applies to any fluid flow. Not just auto/truck traffic.) And the further under demand you are, the worse things get. That’s why rush hour is worse than other times, even when things are bad all day.
    Now if you want to argue that pent up demand is so high that we’d need to douuble or triple capacity, not just add a lane or two? That might be true. But that’s why you look into things like that when doing your design. In the specific case of LA, my guess is that they either skipped that, or decided that they couldn’t get approved for what they knew was needed.

  172. the research I’ve seen suggests that widening freeways does little for traffic problems because it increases the volume of traffic enough on those freeways to recreate the same overall problem.
    Certainly you have to increase capacity far enough out that you don’t just move the bottleneck. But I question the implication that increasing capacity can’t ever improve the situation.
    Pretty obviously there is a maximum possible demand. When your capacity is below that, things back up. (This applies to any fluid flow. Not just auto/truck traffic.) And the further under demand you are, the worse things get. That’s why rush hour is worse than other times, even when things are bad all day.
    Now if you want to argue that pent up demand is so high that we’d need to douuble or triple capacity, not just add a lane or two? That might be true. But that’s why you look into things like that when doing your design. In the specific case of LA, my guess is that they either skipped that, or decided that they couldn’t get approved for what they knew was needed.

  173. Too much crap coming from too far away going through too few gateways at too little cost for the pollution and wear-and-tear.
    Changing any one or two of those factors will not relieve the larger problem, it just moves the problem around.

  174. Too much crap coming from too far away going through too few gateways at too little cost for the pollution and wear-and-tear.
    Changing any one or two of those factors will not relieve the larger problem, it just moves the problem around.

  175. How much freight gets moved by rail in the most efficient ports?
    One of the statistics that gets thrown around a lot is that 15% of all the import container traffic in the US runs through the Alameda Corridor trench. The various authorities are looking for more money to accelerate the Alameda Corridor-East and expand the ability to move traffic out of the LA rail yards.
    Just my opinion, but there are so many better rail projects California could be spending their money on than the bullet trains.

  176. How much freight gets moved by rail in the most efficient ports?
    One of the statistics that gets thrown around a lot is that 15% of all the import container traffic in the US runs through the Alameda Corridor trench. The various authorities are looking for more money to accelerate the Alameda Corridor-East and expand the ability to move traffic out of the LA rail yards.
    Just my opinion, but there are so many better rail projects California could be spending their money on than the bullet trains.

  177. Bullet trains are more a prestige project than anything useful. Unfortunately, it looks like the California project will soon get to the point where the enthusiasts can start with the sunk cost fallacy (“We’ve spent all this money already, so we can’t stop now. Even if we now can see it’s a waste of money.”) And, since the north end won’t go anywhere near the Bay Area, it really will be useless.

  178. Bullet trains are more a prestige project than anything useful. Unfortunately, it looks like the California project will soon get to the point where the enthusiasts can start with the sunk cost fallacy (“We’ve spent all this money already, so we can’t stop now. Even if we now can see it’s a waste of money.”) And, since the north end won’t go anywhere near the Bay Area, it really will be useless.

  179. if you gave me the choice of flying (for example) from Boston to Chicago, with about 3 hours in the air, and taking a train that made the same trip in 8 or 10 hours, I’d find the train option very attractive.
    and that is not even considering the environmental aspect.
    rail travel in this country sucks, because it has been utterly de-prioritized, and the rail infrastructure has been privatized in favor of freight carriers who have zero incentive to maintain the rail beds in a condition that would support passenger travel.
    just another area where this country lags behind almost every other non-third-world place on earth.

  180. if you gave me the choice of flying (for example) from Boston to Chicago, with about 3 hours in the air, and taking a train that made the same trip in 8 or 10 hours, I’d find the train option very attractive.
    and that is not even considering the environmental aspect.
    rail travel in this country sucks, because it has been utterly de-prioritized, and the rail infrastructure has been privatized in favor of freight carriers who have zero incentive to maintain the rail beds in a condition that would support passenger travel.
    just another area where this country lags behind almost every other non-third-world place on earth.

  181. with about 3 hours in the air
    and at least two hours shuffling around in different lines in the airport.
    someone needs to research the psychic toll incurred by the horrible airport experience.

  182. with about 3 hours in the air
    and at least two hours shuffling around in different lines in the airport.
    someone needs to research the psychic toll incurred by the horrible airport experience.

  183. someone needs to research the psychic toll incurred by the horrible airport experience.
    Kafka’s The Castle is in the public domain. Find and replace “castle” for “LAX” and you are all set.

  184. someone needs to research the psychic toll incurred by the horrible airport experience.
    Kafka’s The Castle is in the public domain. Find and replace “castle” for “LAX” and you are all set.

  185. But I question the implication that increasing capacity can’t ever improve the situation.
    “can’t ever” may be an overstatement, but it’s pretty damn hard.
    The problem is that there are other ways to get places – side roads or mass transit for example. If the road is too jammed some just won’t go, and more workers will tend to look for jobs that shorten their commutes.
    But expand the road and behavior changes. Some drivers take the freeway rather than the side roads. Some transit riders drive, some who might have stayed home go.
    The point is the expansion leads to a new equilibrium where the various marginal costs equalize, and that will often lead to traffic being just as jammed as before.

  186. But I question the implication that increasing capacity can’t ever improve the situation.
    “can’t ever” may be an overstatement, but it’s pretty damn hard.
    The problem is that there are other ways to get places – side roads or mass transit for example. If the road is too jammed some just won’t go, and more workers will tend to look for jobs that shorten their commutes.
    But expand the road and behavior changes. Some drivers take the freeway rather than the side roads. Some transit riders drive, some who might have stayed home go.
    The point is the expansion leads to a new equilibrium where the various marginal costs equalize, and that will often lead to traffic being just as jammed as before.

  187. just another area where this country lags behind almost every other non-third-world place on earth.
    There are always tradeoffs. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.
    “But unlike the way the U.S. leverages its extensive railroad network to move freight, Europe does no such thing, with its freight rail system lagging behind the U.S. by several decades.
    The reason for this chasm in rail freight growth is because of a fundamental difference in perspective. Europe never measured the effectiveness of its well-engineered railway system by the volume of freight it hauled, but by the number of passengers it could move.”
    Why is Europe so absurdly backward compared to the U.S. in rail freight transport

  188. just another area where this country lags behind almost every other non-third-world place on earth.
    There are always tradeoffs. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.
    “But unlike the way the U.S. leverages its extensive railroad network to move freight, Europe does no such thing, with its freight rail system lagging behind the U.S. by several decades.
    The reason for this chasm in rail freight growth is because of a fundamental difference in perspective. Europe never measured the effectiveness of its well-engineered railway system by the volume of freight it hauled, but by the number of passengers it could move.”
    Why is Europe so absurdly backward compared to the U.S. in rail freight transport

  189. When the tattoo shop I went to was down near the center of LA, I mostly took surface roads to my appointments even though that route was 20-30 minutes longer on average because it was consistently slow. The freeway routes could get you there 45 minutes early or 2 hours late, with nothing in between. And the point at which traffic went from early to late was entirely unpredictable in that 30 minute window that the surface streets added.

  190. When the tattoo shop I went to was down near the center of LA, I mostly took surface roads to my appointments even though that route was 20-30 minutes longer on average because it was consistently slow. The freeway routes could get you there 45 minutes early or 2 hours late, with nothing in between. And the point at which traffic went from early to late was entirely unpredictable in that 30 minute window that the surface streets added.

  191. Sounds like the LA area needs congestion pricing on its major streets and highways. But then the surface roads likely become congested.

  192. Sounds like the LA area needs congestion pricing on its major streets and highways. But then the surface roads likely become congested.

  195. Sounds like the LA area needs congestion pricing on its major streets and highways.
    I feel faint! Did Charles really just advocate for a tax?!?!? (Which, since the roads are not privately owned, it would be.)

  196. Sounds like the LA area needs congestion pricing on its major streets and highways.
    I feel faint! Did Charles really just advocate for a tax?!?!? (Which, since the roads are not privately owned, it would be.)

  197. If planning wasn’t so commie socialist, maybe we could try it.
    We have congestion pricing of a sort on I-25 and on 36 heading to Boulder up and down the front range Denver.
    It’s fun sitting in rush hour traffic as the odd lonely BMW speeds by in the premium elite lane(s).
    I stay home or travel off hours on secondary roads, but I’m not forced to work any longer.

  198. If planning wasn’t so commie socialist, maybe we could try it.
    We have congestion pricing of a sort on I-25 and on 36 heading to Boulder up and down the front range Denver.
    It’s fun sitting in rush hour traffic as the odd lonely BMW speeds by in the premium elite lane(s).
    I stay home or travel off hours on secondary roads, but I’m not forced to work any longer.

  199. The point is the expansion leads to a new equilibrium where the various marginal costs equalize, and that will often lead to traffic being just as jammed as before.
    I lived in metro Denver for 32 years, only recently moving to another part of the Front Range. When we moved in the population was about 1.5M and the major roads were on the verge of collapse at rush hour. In those 32 years many lane miles were added. The main roads were rebuilt to get rid of all the stretches where lanes were shared by people trying to get on or off. 120 miles or so of rail transit was built. The population doubled to 3.0M and… the major roads were on the verge of collapse at rush hour.

  200. The point is the expansion leads to a new equilibrium where the various marginal costs equalize, and that will often lead to traffic being just as jammed as before.
    I lived in metro Denver for 32 years, only recently moving to another part of the Front Range. When we moved in the population was about 1.5M and the major roads were on the verge of collapse at rush hour. In those 32 years many lane miles were added. The main roads were rebuilt to get rid of all the stretches where lanes were shared by people trying to get on or off. 120 miles or so of rail transit was built. The population doubled to 3.0M and… the major roads were on the verge of collapse at rush hour.

  201. I feel faint! Did Charles really just advocate for a tax?!?!? (Which, since the roads are not privately owned, it would be.)
    Congestion pricing is market-oriented. When the demand for something increases and the supply doesn’t, the price increases. Doesn’t matter who owns the something.

  202. I feel faint! Did Charles really just advocate for a tax?!?!? (Which, since the roads are not privately owned, it would be.)
    Congestion pricing is market-oriented. When the demand for something increases and the supply doesn’t, the price increases. Doesn’t matter who owns the something.

  203. Congestion pricing is market-oriented.
    So, anything market oriented is not a tax. A tax is only operable if someone owning something gets screwed.
    Open it up here for the name of the revival band. My suggestion Louis XVI and the Ancien Regime.

  204. Congestion pricing is market-oriented.
    So, anything market oriented is not a tax. A tax is only operable if someone owning something gets screwed.
    Open it up here for the name of the revival band. My suggestion Louis XVI and the Ancien Regime.

  205. “My suggestion Louis XVI and the Ancien Regime.”
    Electric harpsichords are a thing, I hear.

  206. “My suggestion Louis XVI and the Ancien Regime.”
    Electric harpsichords are a thing, I hear.

  207. Armageddon Toll Road has a nice industrial postmetal vibe to it and harpsichord isn’t much of a flex for postmetal.

  208. Armageddon Toll Road has a nice industrial postmetal vibe to it and harpsichord isn’t much of a flex for postmetal.

  213. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.
    and yet, stuff gets delivered, somehow.
    I mostly took surface roads to my appointments even though that route was 20-30 minutes longer on average because it was consistently slow.
    story of my 30-year-long commuting life.
    I’d rather move slowly and consistently, than go 60 miles an hour for two miles and then sit at a dead stop for the next five minutes.
    Congestion pricing is market-oriented.
    and is therefore virtuous, full stop.

  214. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.
    and yet, stuff gets delivered, somehow.
    I mostly took surface roads to my appointments even though that route was 20-30 minutes longer on average because it was consistently slow.
    story of my 30-year-long commuting life.
    I’d rather move slowly and consistently, than go 60 miles an hour for two miles and then sit at a dead stop for the next five minutes.
    Congestion pricing is market-oriented.
    and is therefore virtuous, full stop.

  215. Do you know what would be “market oriented”? A carbon tax, that’s what.
    Tax every atom of fossil carbon entering The Economy, whether by domestic extraction or by importation. Levy the tax on the extractor/importer. Let the Invisible Hand distribute the incidence of the tax per Free Market principles.
    BTW, rebate the tax money to every American “person” who actually … you know … breathes air, every month, on a per-capita basis. No “means testing”, no regulatory mumbo-jumbo; just “You’re a breathing person who lives in the US? Here’s your equal share of the carbon tax we collected last month.”
    I suspect Libertarians(TM) would object to such a scheme. I imagine that True Conservatives and even godless libruls might have reservations. Can’t predict those. But I’d bet my house that Joe Manchin would bleat and squawk about it.
    –TP

  216. Do you know what would be “market oriented”? A carbon tax, that’s what.
    Tax every atom of fossil carbon entering The Economy, whether by domestic extraction or by importation. Levy the tax on the extractor/importer. Let the Invisible Hand distribute the incidence of the tax per Free Market principles.
    BTW, rebate the tax money to every American “person” who actually … you know … breathes air, every month, on a per-capita basis. No “means testing”, no regulatory mumbo-jumbo; just “You’re a breathing person who lives in the US? Here’s your equal share of the carbon tax we collected last month.”
    I suspect Libertarians(TM) would object to such a scheme. I imagine that True Conservatives and even godless libruls might have reservations. Can’t predict those. But I’d bet my house that Joe Manchin would bleat and squawk about it.
    –TP

  217. Is driving productive? Did the market or government put us in these rolly, burny things? Also, too, judging by my near-constant desire to throw 2/3 of the stuff in my house out on the curb, I think these supply-chain bottlenecks are a matter of people buying dumb sh*t they don’t need from faraway places. I don’t get wtf humanity is up to.

  218. Is driving productive? Did the market or government put us in these rolly, burny things? Also, too, judging by my near-constant desire to throw 2/3 of the stuff in my house out on the curb, I think these supply-chain bottlenecks are a matter of people buying dumb sh*t they don’t need from faraway places. I don’t get wtf humanity is up to.

  219. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.

    and yet, stuff gets delivered, somehow.
    At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.

    Congestion pricing is market-oriented.

    and is therefore virtuous, full stop.
    Or because it works.

  220. Europe is more dependent on trucks to move freight than the US due to their limitations on moving freight by rail.

    and yet, stuff gets delivered, somehow.
    At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.

    Congestion pricing is market-oriented.

    and is therefore virtuous, full stop.
    Or because it works.

  221. At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.
    Can you demonstrate this?
    And how is any of that offset by the lesser expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact required to move *people* around?
    Or because it works
    Does it? Always and everywhere? Who does it work for?

  222. At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.
    Can you demonstrate this?
    And how is any of that offset by the lesser expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact required to move *people* around?
    Or because it works
    Does it? Always and everywhere? Who does it work for?

  223. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43618724
    full paper here
    sci-hub.se/10.2307/43618724
    Singapore, not really my image of a ‘let’s keep our hands out of this’ government. It works because there is a central government calling the shots. While I’m sure there is a Reason article squaring the circle, let’s don’t and say we did…

  224. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43618724
    full paper here
    sci-hub.se/10.2307/43618724
    Singapore, not really my image of a ‘let’s keep our hands out of this’ government. It works because there is a central government calling the shots. While I’m sure there is a Reason article squaring the circle, let’s don’t and say we did…

  225. At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.

    Can you demonstrate this?
    Loaded semi-trucks have about five magnitudes greater impact on road surfaces than do cars. Trucks use a lot more fuel to transport a given amount of freight than do trains. The only surface vehicle more energy efficient at transporting mass than a train is a bicycle.
    As you point out, that’s offset by rail passengers who might otherwise be using the roads.

    Or because it works

    Does it? Always and everywhere? Who does it work for?
    Some examples.
    “Congestion pricing is gathering some inertia [momentum?] in cities worldwide for a few reasons; safety, money, and public desire are among the main ones. Unlike traditional mechanisms to deal with more cars such as, well, building new roads, congestion pricing has had a profound effect on the cities it has come to. Pricing schemes operate on the same general platform – charge a car if it passes into a certain zone of a city – but each country has generated an architecture that is influenced as much by culture as it is by need. Below is a list of cities (and in one case, a city-state) that have designed and deployed congestion pricing systems:”
    5 Cities with Congestion Pricing

  226. At greater expense, infrastructure, and environmental impact.

    Can you demonstrate this?
    Loaded semi-trucks have about five magnitudes greater impact on road surfaces than do cars. Trucks use a lot more fuel to transport a given amount of freight than do trains. The only surface vehicle more energy efficient at transporting mass than a train is a bicycle.
    As you point out, that’s offset by rail passengers who might otherwise be using the roads.

    Or because it works

    Does it? Always and everywhere? Who does it work for?
    Some examples.
    “Congestion pricing is gathering some inertia [momentum?] in cities worldwide for a few reasons; safety, money, and public desire are among the main ones. Unlike traditional mechanisms to deal with more cars such as, well, building new roads, congestion pricing has had a profound effect on the cities it has come to. Pricing schemes operate on the same general platform – charge a car if it passes into a certain zone of a city – but each country has generated an architecture that is influenced as much by culture as it is by need. Below is a list of cities (and in one case, a city-state) that have designed and deployed congestion pricing systems:”
    5 Cities with Congestion Pricing

  227. In Orange County there are a few toll roads that ensure fast transit times. They are mostly empty and the trucks are mostly routed to the freeways, which are still packed and crawling.
    Suggests to me that they should be lowering the cost of the toll roads to bleed off some traffic, but that’s not the way these things ever work. Instead it’s just one more controlled access for the gated communities that the toll roads mostly serve or a perq for management to charge to their company. About the only blue collar traffic belongs to the landscapers that work the communities.

  228. In Orange County there are a few toll roads that ensure fast transit times. They are mostly empty and the trucks are mostly routed to the freeways, which are still packed and crawling.
    Suggests to me that they should be lowering the cost of the toll roads to bleed off some traffic, but that’s not the way these things ever work. Instead it’s just one more controlled access for the gated communities that the toll roads mostly serve or a perq for management to charge to their company. About the only blue collar traffic belongs to the landscapers that work the communities.

  229. Yeah, the San Diego example seems dubious to me. The flex lanes don’t really relieve congestion for either freight or regular commuters, and the traffic options are pretty limited because Camp Pendleton forces everything going between SD and LA onto two freeways.
    They really are Lexus lanes.
    Funny thing is, some of them used to be HOV lanes that actually did do a bit for traffic flow. Turning them into pay lanes took away most of that benefit for all but the few drivers who pay.
    I’d want to see data from an independent study for any measure of benefit.

  230. Yeah, the San Diego example seems dubious to me. The flex lanes don’t really relieve congestion for either freight or regular commuters, and the traffic options are pretty limited because Camp Pendleton forces everything going between SD and LA onto two freeways.
    They really are Lexus lanes.
    Funny thing is, some of them used to be HOV lanes that actually did do a bit for traffic flow. Turning them into pay lanes took away most of that benefit for all but the few drivers who pay.
    I’d want to see data from an independent study for any measure of benefit.

  231. Around here, we have lanes which are a combination of HOV and pay. If you have (2 or 3, depending on which freeway) people in the car, it’s free. Otherwise, there’s a charge — which varies, depending on traffic loads. Off hours, the charge drops to zero.

  232. Around here, we have lanes which are a combination of HOV and pay. If you have (2 or 3, depending on which freeway) people in the car, it’s free. Otherwise, there’s a charge — which varies, depending on traffic loads. Off hours, the charge drops to zero.

  233. The fact that struck me what that Charles’ article lists cities with congestion pricing in chronological order, oldest first. It has me wonder why some place with libertarian bona fides didn’t come up with the idea first if it was so good.

  234. The fact that struck me what that Charles’ article lists cities with congestion pricing in chronological order, oldest first. It has me wonder why some place with libertarian bona fides didn’t come up with the idea first if it was so good.

  235. Who knew you could throw an election by telling parents who want a say in their kids’ education that they should sit down and STFU?…

  236. Who knew you could throw an election by telling parents who want a say in their kids’ education that they should sit down and STFU?…

  237. i’m going guess there’s a large overlap between people who want to tell VA teachers what to teach and people who want to tell VA doctors what medicines are effective.
    and so, no – they really don’t have any business telling teachers what to teach.
    it was a dumb thing to say, though.

  238. i’m going guess there’s a large overlap between people who want to tell VA teachers what to teach and people who want to tell VA doctors what medicines are effective.
    and so, no – they really don’t have any business telling teachers what to teach.
    it was a dumb thing to say, though.

  241. The fact that the guy who won promised to unilaterally ban subjects from schools suggests the real issue wasn’t actually parental control.

  242. The fact that the guy who won promised to unilaterally ban subjects from schools suggests the real issue wasn’t actually parental control.

  243. True that. On the one hand, he said parents should have school choice. On the other, he said the state should ban subjects it doesn’t like.

  244. True that. On the one hand, he said parents should have school choice. On the other, he said the state should ban subjects it doesn’t like.

  245. Who knew you could win an election by appealing to the lowest, racist, nationalist, anti-pandemic protocol elements in a society on the brink of utter dissolution and deservedly violent chaos?
    I did.
    The predecessers to Pol Pot, Hitler, the Bolsheviks, Mao, Mussolini, Bolsanaro, Idi Amin, Andrew Johnson (the Emancipation Proclamation and the Gettyburgh Address were political suicide), Trump, Castro, any number of tinpot murderous dictators in Central America, and Tucker Carlson all said a lot of hapless, clueless, politically suicidal things too.
    And then all was lost. And is.
    See ya, kids.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXjzOpz4Cyw

  246. Who knew you could win an election by appealing to the lowest, racist, nationalist, anti-pandemic protocol elements in a society on the brink of utter dissolution and deservedly violent chaos?
    I did.
    The predecessers to Pol Pot, Hitler, the Bolsheviks, Mao, Mussolini, Bolsanaro, Idi Amin, Andrew Johnson (the Emancipation Proclamation and the Gettyburgh Address were political suicide), Trump, Castro, any number of tinpot murderous dictators in Central America, and Tucker Carlson all said a lot of hapless, clueless, politically suicidal things too.
    And then all was lost. And is.
    See ya, kids.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXjzOpz4Cyw

  247. You would think saying something like “I love the poorly educated!” would be politically suicidal. Instead, it’s more or less the theme of an entire movement.

  248. You would think saying something like “I love the poorly educated!” would be politically suicidal. Instead, it’s more or less the theme of an entire movement.

  249. Purely depends on how people understand the word ‘education’. I could find quite a number of saints (incuding fathers of the church) who would fully agree that for the common people ‘education’ is highly dangerous and have no qualms saying that in public. St.Jerome had literal nightmares about his classical education condemning him to hell: “You’re no Christian but a Ciceronian”.
    That higher education is a potential poison for the soul (not only in the religious sense) has been a common topos in European thought (e.g. Rousseau’s ‘back to nature’).
    And once politicians had to actually appeal to the masses, they had to pretend to be less learned than they actually were (like they still use to brag about their alleged humble origins). With n-words it is ‘uppity’-ness, with whites ‘snobbery’ that’s dangerous, and to be more learned than the voters and showing it (e.g. by using ‘Big’ words) triggers the inferiority complex and causes revulsion.
    That’s one reason why the founders did not actually want what they understood as ‘democracy’. They would not have used ‘education’ as a dirty word though since I presume they included basic skills like reading and writing. The ‘poorly educated’ of today probably would not but see it as English for ‘academia’.

  250. Purely depends on how people understand the word ‘education’. I could find quite a number of saints (incuding fathers of the church) who would fully agree that for the common people ‘education’ is highly dangerous and have no qualms saying that in public. St.Jerome had literal nightmares about his classical education condemning him to hell: “You’re no Christian but a Ciceronian”.
    That higher education is a potential poison for the soul (not only in the religious sense) has been a common topos in European thought (e.g. Rousseau’s ‘back to nature’).
    And once politicians had to actually appeal to the masses, they had to pretend to be less learned than they actually were (like they still use to brag about their alleged humble origins). With n-words it is ‘uppity’-ness, with whites ‘snobbery’ that’s dangerous, and to be more learned than the voters and showing it (e.g. by using ‘Big’ words) triggers the inferiority complex and causes revulsion.
    That’s one reason why the founders did not actually want what they understood as ‘democracy’. They would not have used ‘education’ as a dirty word though since I presume they included basic skills like reading and writing. The ‘poorly educated’ of today probably would not but see it as English for ‘academia’.

  253. The theme of the movement is that anyone, regardless of education/experience/expertise, can decide things like what kids should learn school or what kind of medical treatments should be administered.
    Do your own research, even if you completely lack the ability to evaluate the information! Don’t be a sheep!

  254. The theme of the movement is that anyone, regardless of education/experience/expertise, can decide things like what kids should learn school or what kind of medical treatments should be administered.
    Do your own research, even if you completely lack the ability to evaluate the information! Don’t be a sheep!

  255. Yeah, that’s what ‘common sense’ has become to mean.
    If you scratch the surface, you’re also likely to find the old claims about ‘Jewish science’ (like quantum physics or general relativity) created specifically to undermine common sense (which Jews [and their father, Satan] can’t stand by nature).

  256. Yeah, that’s what ‘common sense’ has become to mean.
    If you scratch the surface, you’re also likely to find the old claims about ‘Jewish science’ (like quantum physics or general relativity) created specifically to undermine common sense (which Jews [and their father, Satan] can’t stand by nature).

  257. I have family members who have been on the operation-rescue-homeschool-anti-vax bandwagon since the ’80s. They see the hand of providence and the invisible hand both urging them ever forward into our bright future once they stamp out all the child-killing-anti-market-monkey-cousin-wannabe-vax-sheeple. With love. Guns can be love, too.
    God is on the move.

  258. I have family members who have been on the operation-rescue-homeschool-anti-vax bandwagon since the ’80s. They see the hand of providence and the invisible hand both urging them ever forward into our bright future once they stamp out all the child-killing-anti-market-monkey-cousin-wannabe-vax-sheeple. With love. Guns can be love, too.
    God is on the move.

  259. Would it be helpful to suggest that if the Ds had managed to nominate a candidate for President who wasn’t plainly too old for the job, ridiculous arguments about education policy probably wouldn’t have swayed anything?
    No, I thought not.

  260. Would it be helpful to suggest that if the Ds had managed to nominate a candidate for President who wasn’t plainly too old for the job, ridiculous arguments about education policy probably wouldn’t have swayed anything?
    No, I thought not.

  261. On the one hand, he said parents should have school choice. On the other, he said the state should ban subjects it doesn’t like.
    Actually, no. He wants to ban subjects the he doesn’t like. But he definitely doesn’t want the state able to ban stuff other people don’t like when the other party is in office.

  262. On the one hand, he said parents should have school choice. On the other, he said the state should ban subjects it doesn’t like.
    Actually, no. He wants to ban subjects the he doesn’t like. But he definitely doesn’t want the state able to ban stuff other people don’t like when the other party is in office.

  263. Unless Pro Bono can tell me who “the Democrats” should have nominated to take down the too orange youngster who wasn’t too fascist or too crooked for Republicans to nominate, then Pro Bono can kiss my ass.
    –TP

  264. Unless Pro Bono can tell me who “the Democrats” should have nominated to take down the too orange youngster who wasn’t too fascist or too crooked for Republicans to nominate, then Pro Bono can kiss my ass.
    –TP

  265. Unless Pro Bono can tell me who “the Democrats” should have nominated to take down the too orange youngster
    It’s always easier to say “You should have done it differently” if you don’t bother with specifics of what (or who) “different” should be.

  266. Unless Pro Bono can tell me who “the Democrats” should have nominated to take down the too orange youngster
    It’s always easier to say “You should have done it differently” if you don’t bother with specifics of what (or who) “different” should be.

  267. I disagree. I can tell the Republicans that they had no business nominating Trump (or Dubya) without making my own nomination for them. And the same applies to the Democrats with Biden. Start by ruling out candidates who are too fascist/stupid/old for the job, then pick the one you like best from what I’d expect to be a sizeable field remaining.

  268. I disagree. I can tell the Republicans that they had no business nominating Trump (or Dubya) without making my own nomination for them. And the same applies to the Democrats with Biden. Start by ruling out candidates who are too fascist/stupid/old for the job, then pick the one you like best from what I’d expect to be a sizeable field remaining.

  269. I can tell the Republicans that they had no business nominating Trump (or Dubya) without making my own nomination for them.
    Absolutely, you can. But you can also count of readers to dismiss your critique if you decline to offer a) examples of who might have been better, b) how said alternative would be better, and c) why you think said alternative could still have won.
    Just saying “Biden is too old” doesn’t cut it, unless you can offer up some evidence for how his age has had a negative impacted. Like, what did it cause him to do one way, which a younger alternative would have done differently and/or more effectively. For example, if you’ve got a convincing case for how any alternative amongst the candidates in 2020 could have dealt better with Manchin and Sinema, I’d love to hear it.

  270. I can tell the Republicans that they had no business nominating Trump (or Dubya) without making my own nomination for them.
    Absolutely, you can. But you can also count of readers to dismiss your critique if you decline to offer a) examples of who might have been better, b) how said alternative would be better, and c) why you think said alternative could still have won.
    Just saying “Biden is too old” doesn’t cut it, unless you can offer up some evidence for how his age has had a negative impacted. Like, what did it cause him to do one way, which a younger alternative would have done differently and/or more effectively. For example, if you’ve got a convincing case for how any alternative amongst the candidates in 2020 could have dealt better with Manchin and Sinema, I’d love to hear it.

  271. Despite his weight and verbal incoherence, Rump comes off as robust and passionate. He doesn’t have the same “old man” persona that Biden does, so the (presumably) sarcastic “youngster” usage doesn’t really work. No problem with the un-sarcastic use of “fascist” and “crooked.”
    The question remains for the 2024 nomination – for both parties.

  272. Despite his weight and verbal incoherence, Rump comes off as robust and passionate. He doesn’t have the same “old man” persona that Biden does, so the (presumably) sarcastic “youngster” usage doesn’t really work. No problem with the un-sarcastic use of “fascist” and “crooked.”
    The question remains for the 2024 nomination – for both parties.

  273. Biden got the nod in part *because* he was old and people were seeing that as familiarity and continuity. No one else in the running was seen as a steadying return to normalcy, which is what people voted for.
    But these are not normal times and now people are upset that things continue to go to crap, and Biden is in the scapegoat chair and accepting the responsibility that comes with that, rather than doing his best to scapegoat anyone and everyone else that his base hates.

  274. Biden got the nod in part *because* he was old and people were seeing that as familiarity and continuity. No one else in the running was seen as a steadying return to normalcy, which is what people voted for.
    But these are not normal times and now people are upset that things continue to go to crap, and Biden is in the scapegoat chair and accepting the responsibility that comes with that, rather than doing his best to scapegoat anyone and everyone else that his base hates.

  275. I’ve actually been disappointed to see how many of the news headlines focus on how our problems affect Biden’s ratings/image and the D’s election prospects, rather than on trying to focus on the problems and what actually needs to be done to fix things. I’m by no means a Biden cheerleader, but the mania for blame narratives seems really odd and shortsighted.

  276. I’ve actually been disappointed to see how many of the news headlines focus on how our problems affect Biden’s ratings/image and the D’s election prospects, rather than on trying to focus on the problems and what actually needs to be done to fix things. I’m by no means a Biden cheerleader, but the mania for blame narratives seems really odd and shortsighted.

  277. True, hsh. He, Trump does appear as robust and passionate as several toddlers I have known.
    What pisses me off about Pro Bono’s “too old for the job” pronouncement is the here-we-go-again sameness of the Democrats-are-to-blame motif.
    Biden, too old. Hillary, too divisive. Obama, too uppity. Kerry, too pompous. Gore, too wooden. Name a Democrat who isn’t too something for the Democrats-are-doing-it-wrong crowd, and I’ll show you a Republican. Which is how that crowd is always itching to vote.
    –TP

  278. True, hsh. He, Trump does appear as robust and passionate as several toddlers I have known.
    What pisses me off about Pro Bono’s “too old for the job” pronouncement is the here-we-go-again sameness of the Democrats-are-to-blame motif.
    Biden, too old. Hillary, too divisive. Obama, too uppity. Kerry, too pompous. Gore, too wooden. Name a Democrat who isn’t too something for the Democrats-are-doing-it-wrong crowd, and I’ll show you a Republican. Which is how that crowd is always itching to vote.
    –TP

  279. Biden wasn’t actually on the ballot yesterday, desperation for a compelling narrative notwithstanding.
    I guess ‘education’ is seen as an opposite to ‘common sense’. The educated can’t think straight.
    the average American reads at a 7th grade level. [that’s ~12 years old, for you non-Americans.]

  280. Biden wasn’t actually on the ballot yesterday, desperation for a compelling narrative notwithstanding.
    I guess ‘education’ is seen as an opposite to ‘common sense’. The educated can’t think straight.
    the average American reads at a 7th grade level. [that’s ~12 years old, for you non-Americans.]

  283. And those who went to private schools (or were home schooled) do not demonstrate dramatically better reasoning ability. If anything, the contrary — one of the common motivations for such schools being to avoid children’s minds being “contaminated” by information which the parents don’t believe.

  284. And those who went to private schools (or were home schooled) do not demonstrate dramatically better reasoning ability. If anything, the contrary — one of the common motivations for such schools being to avoid children’s minds being “contaminated” by information which the parents don’t believe.

  285. The statistics for private schools (that are not faked by the schools themselves) do not look much better, unless you go for the hyper-expensive ones.

  286. The statistics for private schools (that are not faked by the schools themselves) do not look much better, unless you go for the hyper-expensive ones.

  287. Half of all Americans will always be below average, which may come as news to Libertarians(TM).
    CharlesWT presumably favors private (free-market) schools, where the parents who pay for the schooling can tell the teachers what to teach and what not to. Science, history, even math (like counting, as in ballots) would be mere products tailored to the tastes of The Free Market, in Libertopia. Private schools would pop up in every urban neighborhood and rural hamlet. Schooling would be cheap and efficient, because kids could take their business across the street if they didn’t like their grades. And lo, we would all be living in Lake Wobegon.
    –TP

  288. Half of all Americans will always be below average, which may come as news to Libertarians(TM).
    CharlesWT presumably favors private (free-market) schools, where the parents who pay for the schooling can tell the teachers what to teach and what not to. Science, history, even math (like counting, as in ballots) would be mere products tailored to the tastes of The Free Market, in Libertopia. Private schools would pop up in every urban neighborhood and rural hamlet. Schooling would be cheap and efficient, because kids could take their business across the street if they didn’t like their grades. And lo, we would all be living in Lake Wobegon.
    –TP

  289. The average American went to a public(government) school.
    “go to private schools!” presupposes ability to pay, and that private schooling would be better for average students of average backgrounds.
    libertarianism is a solution in search of a reality in which it works.

  290. The average American went to a public(government) school.
    “go to private schools!” presupposes ability to pay, and that private schooling would be better for average students of average backgrounds.
    libertarianism is a solution in search of a reality in which it works.

  293. Private schools would pop up in every urban neighborhood and rural hamlet.
    Historically, when schools popped up for the first time in new communities along the frontier, the community came together to create them. That is, they were some form of government run. (The private schools, funded by the elite for their own benefit, in the 1700s were a different story.)
    One has to wonder why, given total freedom to do as they wished, people freely chose to set up government-run schools. It seems so . . . non-Libertarian.

  294. Private schools would pop up in every urban neighborhood and rural hamlet.
    Historically, when schools popped up for the first time in new communities along the frontier, the community came together to create them. That is, they were some form of government run. (The private schools, funded by the elite for their own benefit, in the 1700s were a different story.)
    One has to wonder why, given total freedom to do as they wished, people freely chose to set up government-run schools. It seems so . . . non-Libertarian.

  297. I have been reviewing some of Heinlein’s Future History stories. The good news: “Trump” is easier to spell than “Scudder.” But otherwise, it looks all too familiar.
    Here’s hoping our pending theocracy doesn’t last as long as projected.

  298. I have been reviewing some of Heinlein’s Future History stories. The good news: “Trump” is easier to spell than “Scudder.” But otherwise, it looks all too familiar.
    Here’s hoping our pending theocracy doesn’t last as long as projected.

  299. I had some points to make on the whole “government bad” tip, but cleek just made my whole day a lot simpler.
    libertarianism is a solution in search of a reality in which it works.
    ’nuff said.
    Despite his weight and verbal incoherence, Rump comes off as robust and passionate. He doesn’t have the same “old man” persona that Biden does
    Trump mainlines about 15 Diet Cokes a day. Brought to him on a silver platter, no less.
    Get them both to run a quarter mile and see who looks good then.
    In any case, his supporters appear to be impervious to facts and reality, so it’s kind of moot.
    JFK Jr. didn’t appear at Dealey Plaza, so now they’re hoping he’ll show up at a Stones concert. Unclear if they think he never really died, or if he’s dead but is going to be resurrected by the magic power of Trump. But somehow he is supposed to restore Trump to the presidency.
    It’s like the Bonnie Prince Charlie legend as told by the National Inquirer.
    Somebody please explain to me how these people are not certifiable. They are, clearly and vividly, delusional. I’m not sure there’s a way back for them. I’m even less sure that, even if there was one, they’d take it.
    It’s the weirdest freaking thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. And that is not a low bar, believe me.

  300. I had some points to make on the whole “government bad” tip, but cleek just made my whole day a lot simpler.
    libertarianism is a solution in search of a reality in which it works.
    ’nuff said.
    Despite his weight and verbal incoherence, Rump comes off as robust and passionate. He doesn’t have the same “old man” persona that Biden does
    Trump mainlines about 15 Diet Cokes a day. Brought to him on a silver platter, no less.
    Get them both to run a quarter mile and see who looks good then.
    In any case, his supporters appear to be impervious to facts and reality, so it’s kind of moot.
    JFK Jr. didn’t appear at Dealey Plaza, so now they’re hoping he’ll show up at a Stones concert. Unclear if they think he never really died, or if he’s dead but is going to be resurrected by the magic power of Trump. But somehow he is supposed to restore Trump to the presidency.
    It’s like the Bonnie Prince Charlie legend as told by the National Inquirer.
    Somebody please explain to me how these people are not certifiable. They are, clearly and vividly, delusional. I’m not sure there’s a way back for them. I’m even less sure that, even if there was one, they’d take it.
    It’s the weirdest freaking thing I’ve seen in my lifetime. And that is not a low bar, believe me.

  301. “ I’ve actually been disappointed to see how many of the news headlines focus on how our problems affect Biden’s ratings/image and the D’s election prospects, rather than on trying to focus on the problems and what actually needs to be done to fix things.”
    With a few exceptions, most of the press does horse race journalism. It’s easy and it’s gossipy and you don’t have to delve into policy or know things.

  302. “ I’ve actually been disappointed to see how many of the news headlines focus on how our problems affect Biden’s ratings/image and the D’s election prospects, rather than on trying to focus on the problems and what actually needs to be done to fix things.”
    With a few exceptions, most of the press does horse race journalism. It’s easy and it’s gossipy and you don’t have to delve into policy or know things.

  303. With a few exceptions, most of the press does horse race journalism. It’s easy and it’s gossipy and you don’t have to delve into policy or know things.
    But I expect more from The Guardian, who have been taking potshots at Biden and echoing everyone else ever since the Afghanistan withdrawal. It feels like a collective giving up and giving in and anticipating the next step in the march towards the Great Divorce.

  304. With a few exceptions, most of the press does horse race journalism. It’s easy and it’s gossipy and you don’t have to delve into policy or know things.
    But I expect more from The Guardian, who have been taking potshots at Biden and echoing everyone else ever since the Afghanistan withdrawal. It feels like a collective giving up and giving in and anticipating the next step in the march towards the Great Divorce.

  307. The most powerful legislator in the state, the longest-standing president of the state senate, very likely ousted by a truck driver with no political experience.
    What the heck did he or his party do? “Anyone but that guy” situations usually require some sort of trigger.

  308. The most powerful legislator in the state, the longest-standing president of the state senate, very likely ousted by a truck driver with no political experience.
    What the heck did he or his party do? “Anyone but that guy” situations usually require some sort of trigger.

  309. But I expect more from The Guardian, who have been taking potshots at Biden and echoing everyone else ever since the Afghanistan withdrawal.
    Let’s try this on for size: Biden and the Democrats have been a crushing disappointment to the Guardian. The big infrastructure bill sits unvoted on by the House. The social change bill has yet to be voted on by either chamber. There has been no voting rights bill. Covid rages on. SCOTUS appears poised to gut the regulatory state, and today, sounds like they are prepared to release the hounds of war, or at least an unfettered right to concealed carry. Conceding Afghanistan to the Taliban was just another in the series.

  310. But I expect more from The Guardian, who have been taking potshots at Biden and echoing everyone else ever since the Afghanistan withdrawal.
    Let’s try this on for size: Biden and the Democrats have been a crushing disappointment to the Guardian. The big infrastructure bill sits unvoted on by the House. The social change bill has yet to be voted on by either chamber. There has been no voting rights bill. Covid rages on. SCOTUS appears poised to gut the regulatory state, and today, sounds like they are prepared to release the hounds of war, or at least an unfettered right to concealed carry. Conceding Afghanistan to the Taliban was just another in the series.

  311. Anyone who’s “disappointed” with “Biden and the Democrats” and is not incandescently furious with McConnell and the Republicans is trying too hard to be clever.
    –TP

  312. Anyone who’s “disappointed” with “Biden and the Democrats” and is not incandescently furious with McConnell and the Republicans is trying too hard to be clever.
    –TP

  313. The Guardian is usually better at identifying the actual sources of the lack of progress. If, as the center-left media, you are disappointed with results, your job should be to find the thing that is keeping things bottled up and point the biggest, brightest arrow that you can at it. Putting a target circle on Biden doesn’t change any of the things you want to change.
    Write stories that point to the overlap between teacher’s concerns and workers concerns. Focus on the labor groundswell that the pandemic has occasioned. Show people the lines across which solidarity can be drawn and give them reasons to draw them.
    Don’t like Biden? Make the risk aversion that makes him seem safe go away by finding a fight worth having that crosscuts the divides that are eating the left’s lunch.

  314. The Guardian is usually better at identifying the actual sources of the lack of progress. If, as the center-left media, you are disappointed with results, your job should be to find the thing that is keeping things bottled up and point the biggest, brightest arrow that you can at it. Putting a target circle on Biden doesn’t change any of the things you want to change.
    Write stories that point to the overlap between teacher’s concerns and workers concerns. Focus on the labor groundswell that the pandemic has occasioned. Show people the lines across which solidarity can be drawn and give them reasons to draw them.
    Don’t like Biden? Make the risk aversion that makes him seem safe go away by finding a fight worth having that crosscuts the divides that are eating the left’s lunch.

  315. Biden, too old. Hillary, too divisive. Obama, too uppity. Kerry, too pompous. Gore, too wooden.
    Biden is too old. So are Sanders and Trump. I don’t understand why anyone would question that.
    Obama is the best candidate either party has nominated for decades, in terms of having the qualifications for the job. Yes, the Rs went batshit insane when he was elected, but I can live with that.

  316. Biden, too old. Hillary, too divisive. Obama, too uppity. Kerry, too pompous. Gore, too wooden.
    Biden is too old. So are Sanders and Trump. I don’t understand why anyone would question that.
    Obama is the best candidate either party has nominated for decades, in terms of having the qualifications for the job. Yes, the Rs went batshit insane when he was elected, but I can live with that.

  317. I’m a huge Guardian fan, but I admit that there is a big hulking lump of ethnocentricity at the heart of the British soul that is magnified when shrunk down to the English heart, which, because “everyone” speaks English, makes it seem like everything from an English point of view seems reasonable and other perspectives can be a little touch of seasoning. That can be intensified when it crosses the Atlantic unfortunately.
    I’m assuming that the stories the Guardian is getting upset about is because of the dripping faucet, i.e. the background they are writing from. The stuff they choose to focus on seems to suggest that they feel that if only the US could get its shit together, the problems they are having would not be so bad. A list of those problems is left as an exercise to the reader.

  318. I’m a huge Guardian fan, but I admit that there is a big hulking lump of ethnocentricity at the heart of the British soul that is magnified when shrunk down to the English heart, which, because “everyone” speaks English, makes it seem like everything from an English point of view seems reasonable and other perspectives can be a little touch of seasoning. That can be intensified when it crosses the Atlantic unfortunately.
    I’m assuming that the stories the Guardian is getting upset about is because of the dripping faucet, i.e. the background they are writing from. The stuff they choose to focus on seems to suggest that they feel that if only the US could get its shit together, the problems they are having would not be so bad. A list of those problems is left as an exercise to the reader.

  319. +1 Tony P at 6:55.
    Biden and the Democrats have been a crushing disappointment to the Guardian.
    Biden is the POTUS. He’s the head of the executive. He doesn’t get a vote on the infrastructure bill, or any other bill.
    In order to become law, a bill has to pass both the House and the Senate. The Senate is currently at a 50-50 split, with (R)s guaranteed to vote as a block against anything whatsoever proposed by the (D) side. And as a practical matter it takes a supermajority, also known as unobtainium, to even bring most things to a vote at all.
    The Guardian’s complaint is not with Biden and the (D)’s, but with the US Constitution and Senate rules.
    I have my own issues there, so it’s hard for me to be critical of the Guardian.
    But the US is not a Parliamentary republic.
    Biden is too old. … I don’t understand why anyone would question that.
    Biden is 78. He appears to have the physical fitness and general energy level of a 60 year old.
    What is it that he is too old for?
    He ran. He won. He’s the POTUS. Our Constitutional process doesn’t provide for do-overs, so barring medical emergencies or assassinations we are not likely to have another one until January 2025.
    It’s too late to worry about whether he’s “too old” or not. He’s there.
    In other words: the question of whether Biden is “too old” or not is kind of moot. He’s the POTUS we have. We aren’t getting another one for about 2 1/2 years.
    We made it, for some approximation of “made it”, through four years of Trump and eight of Bush. Biden as POTUS, per se, is a cakewalk.
    More than that, it’s a gift.

  320. +1 Tony P at 6:55.
    Biden and the Democrats have been a crushing disappointment to the Guardian.
    Biden is the POTUS. He’s the head of the executive. He doesn’t get a vote on the infrastructure bill, or any other bill.
    In order to become law, a bill has to pass both the House and the Senate. The Senate is currently at a 50-50 split, with (R)s guaranteed to vote as a block against anything whatsoever proposed by the (D) side. And as a practical matter it takes a supermajority, also known as unobtainium, to even bring most things to a vote at all.
    The Guardian’s complaint is not with Biden and the (D)’s, but with the US Constitution and Senate rules.
    I have my own issues there, so it’s hard for me to be critical of the Guardian.
    But the US is not a Parliamentary republic.
    Biden is too old. … I don’t understand why anyone would question that.
    Biden is 78. He appears to have the physical fitness and general energy level of a 60 year old.
    What is it that he is too old for?
    He ran. He won. He’s the POTUS. Our Constitutional process doesn’t provide for do-overs, so barring medical emergencies or assassinations we are not likely to have another one until January 2025.
    It’s too late to worry about whether he’s “too old” or not. He’s there.
    In other words: the question of whether Biden is “too old” or not is kind of moot. He’s the POTUS we have. We aren’t getting another one for about 2 1/2 years.
    We made it, for some approximation of “made it”, through four years of Trump and eight of Bush. Biden as POTUS, per se, is a cakewalk.
    More than that, it’s a gift.

  321. If all the headlines (Guardian and otherwise) ask what X loss/setback “means for Biden,” then it sends the message that Biden is what matters most.
    What does X loss/setback mean for our need to decarbonize?
    What does X loss/setback mean for the Supreme Court?
    What does X loss/setback mean for getting family leave/medical coverage?
    What does X loss/setback mean for getting a living wage as billionaires earn record profits while we are told they can’t afford to pay anyone any more because pandemic.
    Stop hiding the part that actually matters behind simplistic drama.

  322. If all the headlines (Guardian and otherwise) ask what X loss/setback “means for Biden,” then it sends the message that Biden is what matters most.
    What does X loss/setback mean for our need to decarbonize?
    What does X loss/setback mean for the Supreme Court?
    What does X loss/setback mean for getting family leave/medical coverage?
    What does X loss/setback mean for getting a living wage as billionaires earn record profits while we are told they can’t afford to pay anyone any more because pandemic.
    Stop hiding the part that actually matters behind simplistic drama.

  325. Stop hiding the part that actually matters behind simplistic drama.
    Let’s reframe this.
    Somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of the people in this country are, in the realm of political discourse, straight up delusional. Like, clinically delusional. They believe, fervently, things that are plainly not true.
    Pretty damned close to 1/2 the voters in this country were happy, given the choice of Biden vs Trump, to pull the lever for Trump.
    To become law, any and every bill presented in Congress has to get either a majority or a super-majority approval from both houses of Congress. Both the House and, especially, the Senate, are profoundly unrepresentative and non-democratic institutions.
    The power of the POTUS to change any of that is minimal. All of that stuff is baked in, via the Constitution and centuries of precedent.
    The focus on Biden – is he popular today? will he be popular tomorrow? what does it all mean? – is utter bullshit.
    The problem is the people who live in this country, who are willing to see the world fucking burn if it means they can pay less than $3 a gallon for gas and not have their lives perturbed in any way shape or form.
    Biden has the bully pulpit, as it were. What he has is a channel to attempt to persuade.
    And with that, he is being asked to counter the mythological bullshit of American entitlement and exceptionalism that the populace of this country has feasted on for years, for decades, for centuries.
    There’s only so much you expect the guy to do. A lot of people are assholes, and behave as such.

  326. Stop hiding the part that actually matters behind simplistic drama.
    Let’s reframe this.
    Somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of the people in this country are, in the realm of political discourse, straight up delusional. Like, clinically delusional. They believe, fervently, things that are plainly not true.
    Pretty damned close to 1/2 the voters in this country were happy, given the choice of Biden vs Trump, to pull the lever for Trump.
    To become law, any and every bill presented in Congress has to get either a majority or a super-majority approval from both houses of Congress. Both the House and, especially, the Senate, are profoundly unrepresentative and non-democratic institutions.
    The power of the POTUS to change any of that is minimal. All of that stuff is baked in, via the Constitution and centuries of precedent.
    The focus on Biden – is he popular today? will he be popular tomorrow? what does it all mean? – is utter bullshit.
    The problem is the people who live in this country, who are willing to see the world fucking burn if it means they can pay less than $3 a gallon for gas and not have their lives perturbed in any way shape or form.
    Biden has the bully pulpit, as it were. What he has is a channel to attempt to persuade.
    And with that, he is being asked to counter the mythological bullshit of American entitlement and exceptionalism that the populace of this country has feasted on for years, for decades, for centuries.
    There’s only so much you expect the guy to do. A lot of people are assholes, and behave as such.

  327. Seriously, you talking to me?
    Nope, we cross posted. I’m aimed square at the lazy media or mendacious editors or whoever is driving the bad framing.
    I spend most of my time in student conferences hammering this sort of thing out of my first year students with questions, pushing them to get past the lazy frame to the actual conflict.

  328. Seriously, you talking to me?
    Nope, we cross posted. I’m aimed square at the lazy media or mendacious editors or whoever is driving the bad framing.
    I spend most of my time in student conferences hammering this sort of thing out of my first year students with questions, pushing them to get past the lazy frame to the actual conflict.

  329. If all the headlines (Guardian and otherwise) ask what X loss/setback “means for Biden,” then it sends the message that Biden is what matters most.
    To people who think what the Guardian says is what matters most.
    All respect to the Guardian. I’m regular reader and a fan.
    They are one voice among thousands. They are not the arbiters of reality.

  330. If all the headlines (Guardian and otherwise) ask what X loss/setback “means for Biden,” then it sends the message that Biden is what matters most.
    To people who think what the Guardian says is what matters most.
    All respect to the Guardian. I’m regular reader and a fan.
    They are one voice among thousands. They are not the arbiters of reality.

  331. back to semi-lurking for me. all of this crap is getting way to real for my taste.
    all of the bullshit about Biden’s popularity is beside the point. what is not beside the point is that the (R) part is, at this point, approximately a crew of insurgent Falangists.
    that is the problem. Biden is not the problem.
    I love the Guardian, to the point where I have been known to send them money. If their focus is “Is Joe Biden too old?” they lack an understanding of the dynamics of the American polity.
    good night all. I’m off to play the piano, with simplistic drama.

  332. back to semi-lurking for me. all of this crap is getting way to real for my taste.
    all of the bullshit about Biden’s popularity is beside the point. what is not beside the point is that the (R) part is, at this point, approximately a crew of insurgent Falangists.
    that is the problem. Biden is not the problem.
    I love the Guardian, to the point where I have been known to send them money. If their focus is “Is Joe Biden too old?” they lack an understanding of the dynamics of the American polity.
    good night all. I’m off to play the piano, with simplistic drama.

  333. Nope, we cross posted. I’m aimed square at the lazy media or mendacious editors or whoever is driving the bad framing.
    My apologies. My mis-reading, in case you haven’t noticed, set me off.
    Sorry about that.
    It’s been a weird year, and an even weirder five years. For some reason, on top of four years of Trump and a year and a half of Covid, an unusual number of friends of mine are either getting horrifying diagnoses, or simply up and dying.
    I guess it’s that time of life, but it’s wearing me the hell out.
    Back to semi-lurking, I don’t appear to be in a place for civil conversation. All the best to all y’all.

  334. Nope, we cross posted. I’m aimed square at the lazy media or mendacious editors or whoever is driving the bad framing.
    My apologies. My mis-reading, in case you haven’t noticed, set me off.
    Sorry about that.
    It’s been a weird year, and an even weirder five years. For some reason, on top of four years of Trump and a year and a half of Covid, an unusual number of friends of mine are either getting horrifying diagnoses, or simply up and dying.
    I guess it’s that time of life, but it’s wearing me the hell out.
    Back to semi-lurking, I don’t appear to be in a place for civil conversation. All the best to all y’all.

  335. Pro Bono: Yes, the Rs went batshit insane when he was elected, but I can live with that.
    Spoken like a man who doesn’t have to live here with the results.
    The GOP was damn reactionary during the Bush II years. But not batshit crazy like they are now. I personally think Obama did a decent job as President.** But there’s no real question that his permanent suntan was what finally drove the GOP nationally over the edge.
    ** Not perfect, by any means. (Although my critique probably differs from the rest of you.) But head and shoulders above anyone else since Bush I at least — with Biden still to be determined. Admittedly, a low bar.

  336. Pro Bono: Yes, the Rs went batshit insane when he was elected, but I can live with that.
    Spoken like a man who doesn’t have to live here with the results.
    The GOP was damn reactionary during the Bush II years. But not batshit crazy like they are now. I personally think Obama did a decent job as President.** But there’s no real question that his permanent suntan was what finally drove the GOP nationally over the edge.
    ** Not perfect, by any means. (Although my critique probably differs from the rest of you.) But head and shoulders above anyone else since Bush I at least — with Biden still to be determined. Admittedly, a low bar.

  337. The GOP was damn reactionary during the Bush II years. But not batshit crazy like they are now.
    Terri Schaivo begs to differ.

  338. The GOP was damn reactionary during the Bush II years. But not batshit crazy like they are now.
    Terri Schaivo begs to differ.

  339. Terri Schaivo begs to differ.
    Quite a feat for someone with no cerebral cortex! (I probably shouldn’t make light of something so sad, but the politics around it was maddening.)

  340. Terri Schaivo begs to differ.
    Quite a feat for someone with no cerebral cortex! (I probably shouldn’t make light of something so sad, but the politics around it was maddening.)

  341. Terri Schaivo begs to differ.
    “A single swallow does not make a summer.”
    Sure, they had some serious nutjobs. And they were extreme on some issues. But not across the board insanity like we see now.

  342. Terri Schaivo begs to differ.
    “A single swallow does not make a summer.”
    Sure, they had some serious nutjobs. And they were extreme on some issues. But not across the board insanity like we see now.

  347. “too old” is yet another bit of GOP agitprop
    And yet, we’ve got people here saying exactly that. And not the most conservative people here either.

  348. “too old” is yet another bit of GOP agitprop
    And yet, we’ve got people here saying exactly that. And not the most conservative people here either.

  349. It’s true, at least IMO, that arguing that Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube shouldn’t be removed isn’t nearly as crazy as believing that JFK, Jr. was coming to reinstate Rump. Probably not even as bad as believing the 2020 election was stolen, particularly after the amount of time that’s passed since the election – without any evidence surfacing.

  350. It’s true, at least IMO, that arguing that Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube shouldn’t be removed isn’t nearly as crazy as believing that JFK, Jr. was coming to reinstate Rump. Probably not even as bad as believing the 2020 election was stolen, particularly after the amount of time that’s passed since the election – without any evidence surfacing.

  351. JFK, Jr. is having too much fun hanging out with Elvis to show up at any Qtard event.
    You could read all about it in the Weekly World News, but it got cancel-cultured for telling too much truth.

  352. JFK, Jr. is having too much fun hanging out with Elvis to show up at any Qtard event.
    You could read all about it in the Weekly World News, but it got cancel-cultured for telling too much truth.

  353. But not across the board insanity like we see now.
    I was going to mention something about lighting the Middle East on fire for no discernable reason could qualify, but I’ll give it a rest.

  354. But not across the board insanity like we see now.
    I was going to mention something about lighting the Middle East on fire for no discernable reason could qualify, but I’ll give it a rest.


  357. >> “too old” is yet another bit of GOP agitprop << And yet, we've got people here saying exactly that. And not the most conservative people here either.
    That would be me. I was triggered by seeing Biden “resting his eyes” at the climate summit. AGW is an issue I care a lot about.
    I freely admit that I wouldn’t have been able to keep my eyes open either. That’s one of the many ways in which I’m not qualified to be president.
    Republican agitprop, ok. Back in February 2020 I wrote:
    …bookies’ favourites to win the presidential election are Trump (who’s odds on), Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg.
    Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.
    Political platforms aside, this is madness.


  358. >> “too old” is yet another bit of GOP agitprop << And yet, we've got people here saying exactly that. And not the most conservative people here either.
    That would be me. I was triggered by seeing Biden “resting his eyes” at the climate summit. AGW is an issue I care a lot about.
    I freely admit that I wouldn’t have been able to keep my eyes open either. That’s one of the many ways in which I’m not qualified to be president.
    Republican agitprop, ok. Back in February 2020 I wrote:
    …bookies’ favourites to win the presidential election are Trump (who’s odds on), Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg.
    Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.
    Political platforms aside, this is madness.

  359. I was triggered by seeing Biden “resting his eyes” at the climate summit.
    Perhaps your experience is different. But I routinely close my eyes when I’m trying to concentrate of what is being said. Without being distracted by unrelated activity going on in front of me. Have done so since college. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who does so.
    Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.
    Political platforms aside, this is madness.
    Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the maximum sane age for a president?
    Also, based on what? I know people who were sinking into senility in their early 60s. And others who were sharp as a tack, and energetic, into their 90s. (In Trump’s case, age seems irrelevant. Since he never made it to teenager, let alone adult. Makes it hard to spot senile dementia when it starts.)

  360. I was triggered by seeing Biden “resting his eyes” at the climate summit.
    Perhaps your experience is different. But I routinely close my eyes when I’m trying to concentrate of what is being said. Without being distracted by unrelated activity going on in front of me. Have done so since college. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who does so.
    Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.
    Political platforms aside, this is madness.
    Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the maximum sane age for a president?
    Also, based on what? I know people who were sinking into senility in their early 60s. And others who were sharp as a tack, and energetic, into their 90s. (In Trump’s case, age seems irrelevant. Since he never made it to teenager, let alone adult. Makes it hard to spot senile dementia when it starts.)

  363. Climate change policy is the closest thing I’ve seen to a proof of Zeno’s Paradox. Scientists tell us what we need to do to avoid disaster and the people who mistrust change argue that we need to start by moving halfway to a solution because doing it all will be too disruptive. Rinse and repeat to our collective demise.

  364. Climate change policy is the closest thing I’ve seen to a proof of Zeno’s Paradox. Scientists tell us what we need to do to avoid disaster and the people who mistrust change argue that we need to start by moving halfway to a solution because doing it all will be too disruptive. Rinse and repeat to our collective demise.

  365. Depends on how you do the paradox. If you go halfway, and then halfway of the remaining distance and then half of that remaining distance the limit of the series gets you to the goal.
    With BBB we start out saying we will go halfway, then cut in in half, and then cut it in half— Manchin takes out one piece and then goes after another. In the limit you approach doing nothing at all. In reality you do very little, it isn’t nearly enough and Greta rightly yells at you.
    This is called political realism.

  366. Depends on how you do the paradox. If you go halfway, and then halfway of the remaining distance and then half of that remaining distance the limit of the series gets you to the goal.
    With BBB we start out saying we will go halfway, then cut in in half, and then cut it in half— Manchin takes out one piece and then goes after another. In the limit you approach doing nothing at all. In reality you do very little, it isn’t nearly enough and Greta rightly yells at you.
    This is called political realism.

  367. we are not going to do anything about climate change. no government is going to do what’s required, let alone all of them. humans are not capable of it.
    everybody should just accept it prepare themselves for what that means.

  368. we are not going to do anything about climate change. no government is going to do what’s required, let alone all of them. humans are not capable of it.
    everybody should just accept it prepare themselves for what that means.

  369. Global warming is going to do more about us than we are going to do about it (well, maybe other than causing it).

  370. Global warming is going to do more about us than we are going to do about it (well, maybe other than causing it).

  371. We aren’t going to do enough but there are gradations of badness and nobody knows if there are tipping points where things get dramatically worse at, for instance, 3 degrees Celsius vs 2, so politically you try to do as much as possible..
    Right now that doesn’t like much is possible.
    Anyway, I found the NYT editorial deeply unhelpful. I agree about the need to be realistic and figure out what is possible, but that doesn’t mean simply surrendering to whatever self described moderates say is realistic.
    Defund the police got shot down in Minneapolis and Eric Adams is a moderate in NYC so fine— I accept that. But government negotiating for lower drug prices is popular and a lot of things in the BBB are popular, so I don’t think we need to bow down to anything a moderate says is possible or desirable just because he or she is moderate,

  372. We aren’t going to do enough but there are gradations of badness and nobody knows if there are tipping points where things get dramatically worse at, for instance, 3 degrees Celsius vs 2, so politically you try to do as much as possible..
    Right now that doesn’t like much is possible.
    Anyway, I found the NYT editorial deeply unhelpful. I agree about the need to be realistic and figure out what is possible, but that doesn’t mean simply surrendering to whatever self described moderates say is realistic.
    Defund the police got shot down in Minneapolis and Eric Adams is a moderate in NYC so fine— I accept that. But government negotiating for lower drug prices is popular and a lot of things in the BBB are popular, so I don’t think we need to bow down to anything a moderate says is possible or desirable just because he or she is moderate,

  373. what’s realistic is that we aren’t going to do enough. which is the same as not doing anything, but slower.
    doesn’t take a moderate to know which way the wind blows.

  374. what’s realistic is that we aren’t going to do enough. which is the same as not doing anything, but slower.
    doesn’t take a moderate to know which way the wind blows.

  375. Was Rump being moderate when he said there were fine people on both sides? Only an extremist would see just one side to the story, right?
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/unite-the-right-witness-violent-plans-testimony
    The more I read about these a**holes, the more I’m just fine with ANTIFA.

    “See Kyle” meant “Sieg heil,” she explained, and was usually followed by a subtle Nazi salute toward someone in the distance was “a way to ‘Sieg heil’ in plain day.” The common “OK” hand gesture was a way of covertly identifying a fellow white nationalist.
    A successful tactic for luring people into Identity Evropa and fascism more generally was using offensive humor, Froelich said.
    “They say, ‘It’s just a joke’ … [but] they are not jokes. It’s a cover. It’s how you get away with saying what you actually think by using a light tone,” she explained, adding that it created “plausible deniability” about the group’s racist and antisemitic views.
    Inside the group, Identity Evropa members were more explicit about what they believed and wanted, Froelich said. She testified that Kline, who worked at a pest control company at the time they lived together, liked to call himself an “unironic exterminationist” and a “Judenator,” as in Jew hunter.
    “He wished he was killing Jews instead of cockroaches,” Froelich said. “We once went to my hometown, and he was upset that he couldn’t oven all the Jews… He was excited about killing Jewish people.”

  376. Was Rump being moderate when he said there were fine people on both sides? Only an extremist would see just one side to the story, right?
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/unite-the-right-witness-violent-plans-testimony
    The more I read about these a**holes, the more I’m just fine with ANTIFA.

    “See Kyle” meant “Sieg heil,” she explained, and was usually followed by a subtle Nazi salute toward someone in the distance was “a way to ‘Sieg heil’ in plain day.” The common “OK” hand gesture was a way of covertly identifying a fellow white nationalist.
    A successful tactic for luring people into Identity Evropa and fascism more generally was using offensive humor, Froelich said.
    “They say, ‘It’s just a joke’ … [but] they are not jokes. It’s a cover. It’s how you get away with saying what you actually think by using a light tone,” she explained, adding that it created “plausible deniability” about the group’s racist and antisemitic views.
    Inside the group, Identity Evropa members were more explicit about what they believed and wanted, Froelich said. She testified that Kline, who worked at a pest control company at the time they lived together, liked to call himself an “unironic exterminationist” and a “Judenator,” as in Jew hunter.
    “He wished he was killing Jews instead of cockroaches,” Froelich said. “We once went to my hometown, and he was upset that he couldn’t oven all the Jews… He was excited about killing Jewish people.”

  377. With the Identity Evropa people the irony serves a double purpose. It give the radicalized a code in which they can spread their views with a degree of plausible deniability. For the people being recruited, though, it creates a thrilling sense of transgression that is its own reward for being in the group. Being an edgelord is entertaining. Triggering the libs is entertaining. And when the edgelord gets blasted by someone for the offensive things they are doing, the radicalized are there to use that moment to provide the edgelord with a new tribe ready to welcome and support them. So the irony is often also a gateway to indoctrination.
    I’ve seen a lot of this over the last few years with my more edgy male students. Some figure it out and drift away from danger. Some get swallowed by the beast.

  378. With the Identity Evropa people the irony serves a double purpose. It give the radicalized a code in which they can spread their views with a degree of plausible deniability. For the people being recruited, though, it creates a thrilling sense of transgression that is its own reward for being in the group. Being an edgelord is entertaining. Triggering the libs is entertaining. And when the edgelord gets blasted by someone for the offensive things they are doing, the radicalized are there to use that moment to provide the edgelord with a new tribe ready to welcome and support them. So the irony is often also a gateway to indoctrination.
    I’ve seen a lot of this over the last few years with my more edgy male students. Some figure it out and drift away from danger. Some get swallowed by the beast.

  379. The original Nazis (after coming to power) tried to claim that they did it this way before they came to power. Hitler himself (pre-1933) found it despicable and demanded that real Nazis should never hide. He even kicked some SA thugs out because they hid their party insignia before going into violent action at one occasion (which David Irving later tried to construe as Hitler being opposed to violence).

  380. The original Nazis (after coming to power) tried to claim that they did it this way before they came to power. Hitler himself (pre-1933) found it despicable and demanded that real Nazis should never hide. He even kicked some SA thugs out because they hid their party insignia before going into violent action at one occasion (which David Irving later tried to construe as Hitler being opposed to violence).

  381. Global warming is going to do more about us than we are going to do about it (well, maybe other than causing it).
    If you’re a hurricane, right about now you’re living your best life ever.
    Nazis
    There is no freaking excuse for any person of remotely good will to be a Nazi or embrace any Nazi ideology.
    Assume anyone you encounter who thinks acting like a Nazi is cool or funny or acceptable is actually a flaming asshole, and quite possibly a dangerous one.
    And act accordingly.
    After the Charlottesville crapshow, I engaged with some of the folks who were putting together the attempted Boston version via social media. The guy who was the public face of that project made a point of behaving like a reasonable person – “It’s all about free speech, we don’t hate anyone!” – but he was more or less a jerk. He was into the Kekistan stuff, which is basically a bunch of knuckleheads who run around with faux-Nazi regalia, except instead of black and red everything is green and white.
    Get it? It’s ironic! It’s all a joke! We’re not Nazis, the joke is on you for getting all offended!
    Just a pack of flaming puerile idiots.
    One guy I chatted with claimed that the guy who ran over and killed Heather Heyer couldn’t have been guilty. He would never intentionally run anyone over, because he had a pretty nice car and he wouldn’t want to damage it.
    Then he informed me that I had a smart mouth. Which, depending on company, is not infrequently true. But at least I’m not an utter moral idiot.
    I hate to think of anyone being utterly lost to humanity, but I don’t know how else to explain these people. They’re on the freaking dark side.
    Maybe they’re redeemable, but if so somebody else is gonna have to make it happen. It’s way above my pay grade.
    I know there are a lot of folks who are into the whole “Southern Heritage” thing, but it’s extraordinarily hard for me not to have the same reaction to the Confederate flag crew.
    The Confederacy was, explicitly, a nation founded on the principle that white people were superior to black people, and that they were therefore entitled to hold black people in chattel bondage. Not just entitled, it was the way god meant it to be.
    That was its purpose. Its raison d’etre. Don’t believe me, read the words of the folks who began it.
    The daylight between that and Nazism is vanishingly small, as far as I can tell.
    We tolerate this stuff because we believe in free speech etc etc etc. But it’s poison, and it’s killing us.

  382. Global warming is going to do more about us than we are going to do about it (well, maybe other than causing it).
    If you’re a hurricane, right about now you’re living your best life ever.
    Nazis
    There is no freaking excuse for any person of remotely good will to be a Nazi or embrace any Nazi ideology.
    Assume anyone you encounter who thinks acting like a Nazi is cool or funny or acceptable is actually a flaming asshole, and quite possibly a dangerous one.
    And act accordingly.
    After the Charlottesville crapshow, I engaged with some of the folks who were putting together the attempted Boston version via social media. The guy who was the public face of that project made a point of behaving like a reasonable person – “It’s all about free speech, we don’t hate anyone!” – but he was more or less a jerk. He was into the Kekistan stuff, which is basically a bunch of knuckleheads who run around with faux-Nazi regalia, except instead of black and red everything is green and white.
    Get it? It’s ironic! It’s all a joke! We’re not Nazis, the joke is on you for getting all offended!
    Just a pack of flaming puerile idiots.
    One guy I chatted with claimed that the guy who ran over and killed Heather Heyer couldn’t have been guilty. He would never intentionally run anyone over, because he had a pretty nice car and he wouldn’t want to damage it.
    Then he informed me that I had a smart mouth. Which, depending on company, is not infrequently true. But at least I’m not an utter moral idiot.
    I hate to think of anyone being utterly lost to humanity, but I don’t know how else to explain these people. They’re on the freaking dark side.
    Maybe they’re redeemable, but if so somebody else is gonna have to make it happen. It’s way above my pay grade.
    I know there are a lot of folks who are into the whole “Southern Heritage” thing, but it’s extraordinarily hard for me not to have the same reaction to the Confederate flag crew.
    The Confederacy was, explicitly, a nation founded on the principle that white people were superior to black people, and that they were therefore entitled to hold black people in chattel bondage. Not just entitled, it was the way god meant it to be.
    That was its purpose. Its raison d’etre. Don’t believe me, read the words of the folks who began it.
    The daylight between that and Nazism is vanishingly small, as far as I can tell.
    We tolerate this stuff because we believe in free speech etc etc etc. But it’s poison, and it’s killing us.

  383. The Confederacy was, explicitly, a nation founded on the principle that white people were superior to black people, and that they were therefore entitled to hold black people in chattel bondage.
    The joy of alternate facts is that you can insist that the Confederacy was about states rights, not slavery. Even though the South Carolina legislature’s resolution seceding from the Union, for example, explicitly said it was about slavery. But hey, why let reality get in the way?

  384. The Confederacy was, explicitly, a nation founded on the principle that white people were superior to black people, and that they were therefore entitled to hold black people in chattel bondage.
    The joy of alternate facts is that you can insist that the Confederacy was about states rights, not slavery. Even though the South Carolina legislature’s resolution seceding from the Union, for example, explicitly said it was about slavery. But hey, why let reality get in the way?

  385. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    We are utterly divided. The absence of anything remotely approaching consensus makes it impossible for self-governance to function effectively.
    In the absence of effective self-governance, people check out. In the absence of effective self-governance, opportunists and self-dealers have free rein.
    And our commitment to rule of law is laudable, but it is offering a blizzard of opportunities for people of ill will to shred it from the inside out.
    If we get through the next few years without descending into profound disruption – without compromising the legitimacy of our famous Great National Experiment – it will be by the skin of our teeth. We’re already kind of there.
    A constructive path forward requires people to act out of good will and a basic level of common feeling. I believe that has been lost, and I don’t know how we retrieve it, given where we are.
    We’re broken, and we don’t know how to fix ourselves.
    Have a great weekend, everyone.

  386. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    We are utterly divided. The absence of anything remotely approaching consensus makes it impossible for self-governance to function effectively.
    In the absence of effective self-governance, people check out. In the absence of effective self-governance, opportunists and self-dealers have free rein.
    And our commitment to rule of law is laudable, but it is offering a blizzard of opportunities for people of ill will to shred it from the inside out.
    If we get through the next few years without descending into profound disruption – without compromising the legitimacy of our famous Great National Experiment – it will be by the skin of our teeth. We’re already kind of there.
    A constructive path forward requires people to act out of good will and a basic level of common feeling. I believe that has been lost, and I don’t know how we retrieve it, given where we are.
    We’re broken, and we don’t know how to fix ourselves.
    Have a great weekend, everyone.

  388. Don’t believe me, read the words of the folks who began it.
    That’s why in Texas schools it’s a firing offense for a teacher to give the students access to the Texas declaration of secession.
    The daylight between that and Nazism is vanishingly small, as far as I can tell.
    It was a direct inspiration to Hitler according to Mein Kampf. But even he thought that it went a bit too far as far as racial purity went. So, no one-drop rule, just 4 generations of no Jewish German ancestry necessary to count as 100% Aryan. Otherwise it would have been difficult to find anyone qualifying.

  390. Don’t believe me, read the words of the folks who began it.
    That’s why in Texas schools it’s a firing offense for a teacher to give the students access to the Texas declaration of secession.
    The daylight between that and Nazism is vanishingly small, as far as I can tell.
    It was a direct inspiration to Hitler according to Mein Kampf. But even he thought that it went a bit too far as far as racial purity went. So, no one-drop rule, just 4 generations of no Jewish German ancestry necessary to count as 100% Aryan. Otherwise it would have been difficult to find anyone qualifying.

  393. Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the maximum sane age for a president?
    60 when they’re first elected.
    It’s not (usually) about senility, it’s flagging energy and powers of concentration. The oldest player to win or retain a world chess championship in the last 100 years was 46.

  394. Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the maximum sane age for a president?
    60 when they’re first elected.
    It’s not (usually) about senility, it’s flagging energy and powers of concentration. The oldest player to win or retain a world chess championship in the last 100 years was 46.

  395. It’s not (usually) about senility, it’s flagging energy and powers of concentration.
    You can make a case for that for some people after age 60. Possibly even for most — although I’m skeptical. But the thing is, were not electing an age group to office, we’re electing an individual.
    Individual aging occurs over a range of ages. Some people are arguably elderly by the time they hit their 50s. Others show no sign of slowing down for decades longer. I’ve known people in both groups. In the case of a particular presidential candidate, we might well be looking at an individual who is way out on the end of the curve.
    So just picking a blanket number really isn’t realistic. You need to look at the specific individual.

  396. It’s not (usually) about senility, it’s flagging energy and powers of concentration.
    You can make a case for that for some people after age 60. Possibly even for most — although I’m skeptical. But the thing is, were not electing an age group to office, we’re electing an individual.
    Individual aging occurs over a range of ages. Some people are arguably elderly by the time they hit their 50s. Others show no sign of slowing down for decades longer. I’ve known people in both groups. In the case of a particular presidential candidate, we might well be looking at an individual who is way out on the end of the curve.
    So just picking a blanket number really isn’t realistic. You need to look at the specific individual.

  397. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    The Plot Against America: 2021

  398. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    The Plot Against America: 2021

  399. The only positive is that the left has not so far decided that preventing people on the right from voting is a goal to embrace. We still believe in representation. We still want to accept everyone who is willing to reciprocate that acceptance.
    But you can feel that wearing thin the more entrenched in their bunkers the opposition becomes and the more violent their rhetoric gets. We are getting danger close to the dynamics that create sectarian violence, and I think we are all beginning to see the potential for Northern Ireland/Yugoslavia levels of ideological partition and conflict where once my worries were discounted out of hand.
    I do not ever want to be proven right on this.

  400. The only positive is that the left has not so far decided that preventing people on the right from voting is a goal to embrace. We still believe in representation. We still want to accept everyone who is willing to reciprocate that acceptance.
    But you can feel that wearing thin the more entrenched in their bunkers the opposition becomes and the more violent their rhetoric gets. We are getting danger close to the dynamics that create sectarian violence, and I think we are all beginning to see the potential for Northern Ireland/Yugoslavia levels of ideological partition and conflict where once my worries were discounted out of hand.
    I do not ever want to be proven right on this.

  401. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    I believe that despite my age, I will live long enough to see some sort of military using heavy artillery against refugee ships approaching the West Coast, or land vehicles coming across the deepening Southwestern deserts.
    On quite bad days, heavy artillery used against people coming west across the Great Plains.

  402. If I seem to be taking a dark turn these days, it’s because I am losing faith in this nation’s ability to contain its worst impulses.
    I believe that despite my age, I will live long enough to see some sort of military using heavy artillery against refugee ships approaching the West Coast, or land vehicles coming across the deepening Southwestern deserts.
    On quite bad days, heavy artillery used against people coming west across the Great Plains.

  403. I’m losing faith in my ability to contain my worst impulses. I want to fight. I’m sick of it.

  404. I’m losing faith in my ability to contain my worst impulses. I want to fight. I’m sick of it.

  405. For Pro Bono’s benefit, I will repeat myself from years ago: when I voted for Obama it was a bit of a shock to realize it was the first time I ever voted for anyone younger than myself to be POTUS.
    I’m over 60, but that is not remotely the reason I am unfit to be POTUS. (There is the “natural born citizen” thing, but that ain’t it, either.) My life experience has been too limited, too prosaic, too … irresponsible? perhaps … to equip me with the judgement and temperament to preside over a national government. Psychologically, I’m still a grad student. I’d be a terrible POTUS, though I assert without proof that I’d make a great King.
    Presidents (or judges for that matter) need to have seen a thing or two before taking on the job, IMHO. Youthful energy is not enough. And the thing about “life experience” is that it takes time, as in years of age. Exceptional youngsters like Teddy Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Barack Obama, do come along once in a while, but by and large youth is not necessarily an asset in governance.
    All that said, I harbor a sincere admiration for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The only reason I’d vote against her becoming POTUS in anything like the near future is that she’d be branded as “too young” by the usual suspects.
    –TP

  406. For Pro Bono’s benefit, I will repeat myself from years ago: when I voted for Obama it was a bit of a shock to realize it was the first time I ever voted for anyone younger than myself to be POTUS.
    I’m over 60, but that is not remotely the reason I am unfit to be POTUS. (There is the “natural born citizen” thing, but that ain’t it, either.) My life experience has been too limited, too prosaic, too … irresponsible? perhaps … to equip me with the judgement and temperament to preside over a national government. Psychologically, I’m still a grad student. I’d be a terrible POTUS, though I assert without proof that I’d make a great King.
    Presidents (or judges for that matter) need to have seen a thing or two before taking on the job, IMHO. Youthful energy is not enough. And the thing about “life experience” is that it takes time, as in years of age. Exceptional youngsters like Teddy Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Barack Obama, do come along once in a while, but by and large youth is not necessarily an asset in governance.
    All that said, I harbor a sincere admiration for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The only reason I’d vote against her becoming POTUS in anything like the near future is that she’d be branded as “too young” by the usual suspects.
    –TP

  407. We are getting danger close to the dynamics that create sectarian violence, and I think we are all beginning to see the potential for Northern Ireland/Yugoslavia levels of ideological partition and conflict where once my worries were discounted out of hand.
    I do not ever want to be proven right on this.
    I don’t want you to be proven right either. But I’m afraid I think it’s approaching even money that you will be. I know the thought has crossed my mind of late that active defensive measures, personal ones, need to be considered. Which is a horrifying turn of events, but there you are.
    I would guess that our divisions are sufficiently geographical that an eventual Yugoslav type outcome is conceivable. Nothing quite that tidy, of course, but something along those lines. Followed by a whole lot of shock (and big-time blame casting) in the red states, when their residents discover how much Federal funds have been propping up their economies. By losing them.

  408. We are getting danger close to the dynamics that create sectarian violence, and I think we are all beginning to see the potential for Northern Ireland/Yugoslavia levels of ideological partition and conflict where once my worries were discounted out of hand.
    I do not ever want to be proven right on this.
    I don’t want you to be proven right either. But I’m afraid I think it’s approaching even money that you will be. I know the thought has crossed my mind of late that active defensive measures, personal ones, need to be considered. Which is a horrifying turn of events, but there you are.
    I would guess that our divisions are sufficiently geographical that an eventual Yugoslav type outcome is conceivable. Nothing quite that tidy, of course, but something along those lines. Followed by a whole lot of shock (and big-time blame casting) in the red states, when their residents discover how much Federal funds have been propping up their economies. By losing them.

  409. Given what people in the poorer red states have been taught to put up with, I doubt that even that would wake them up. Chances are good that any anger can be diverted to some suitable scapegoats or bogeymen.

  410. Given what people in the poorer red states have been taught to put up with, I doubt that even that would wake them up. Chances are good that any anger can be diverted to some suitable scapegoats or bogeymen.

  411. “To put states’ financial health — and the potential impact on residents of those states — into context, MoneyGeek analyzed and ranked states according to their dependence on the federal government. Rankings account for political affiliation, net benefits individuals and organizations in the state receive, state government revenue from federal sources, and GDP per capita. We also examined which states received the most in child tax credits — both in terms of the annualized total amount and amount received per capita.”
    Return on Statehood: How Much Value Every State Gets From the Federal Government

  412. “To put states’ financial health — and the potential impact on residents of those states — into context, MoneyGeek analyzed and ranked states according to their dependence on the federal government. Rankings account for political affiliation, net benefits individuals and organizations in the state receive, state government revenue from federal sources, and GDP per capita. We also examined which states received the most in child tax credits — both in terms of the annualized total amount and amount received per capita.”
    Return on Statehood: How Much Value Every State Gets From the Federal Government

  413. For Pro Bono’s benefit…
    …Youthful energy is not enough. And the thing about “life experience” is that it takes time, as in years of age. Exceptional youngsters like Teddy Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Barack Obama, do come along once in a while, but by and large youth is not necessarily an asset in governance.
    I agree that in your 40s is on the young side. The president should usually be in their 50s.
    Speaking personally, I played a fairly high-level bridge tournament over the weekend – 9 hours’ play on Saturday, 7 hours on Sunday. I played quite well, and successfully. But I made more mistakes towards the end – I was playing my B game, because I was tired, more so than I would have been ten years ago, when I was 50. This sort of fall-off is entirely normal. Players my age can hold their own thanks to their extra experience, players in their 70s and older can have good days, but have increasingly many bad days. Benito Garozzo reportedly plays a very strong game in his 90s, but since he was once the world’s best, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t lost a few steps.
    Being an effective president requires the same sort of attention for many hours a day, day after day, and in much more stressful circumstances.

  414. For Pro Bono’s benefit…
    …Youthful energy is not enough. And the thing about “life experience” is that it takes time, as in years of age. Exceptional youngsters like Teddy Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Barack Obama, do come along once in a while, but by and large youth is not necessarily an asset in governance.
    I agree that in your 40s is on the young side. The president should usually be in their 50s.
    Speaking personally, I played a fairly high-level bridge tournament over the weekend – 9 hours’ play on Saturday, 7 hours on Sunday. I played quite well, and successfully. But I made more mistakes towards the end – I was playing my B game, because I was tired, more so than I would have been ten years ago, when I was 50. This sort of fall-off is entirely normal. Players my age can hold their own thanks to their extra experience, players in their 70s and older can have good days, but have increasingly many bad days. Benito Garozzo reportedly plays a very strong game in his 90s, but since he was once the world’s best, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t lost a few steps.
    Being an effective president requires the same sort of attention for many hours a day, day after day, and in much more stressful circumstances.

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