In Praise of Potemkin

by

by wj

We’re overdue for a new Open Thread. So this is it.

Recently, I’ve seem increasing numbers of reports that members of the administration who speak with Trump, or with members of his inner circle, are routinely slanting (or totally inventing) what they say to him about the world outside the White House. Especially when it comes to how things are going with covid-19 and with his reelection campaign. Fake polls are especially big.

I submit that this is a good thing. Trump strikes me as, at least potentially, the kind of guy who would destroy everything around him rather than admit, especially to himself, that he has failed or is somehow a loser. But so long as he is surrounded by a bubble of (mis)information which tells him he is succeeding, he has no reason to deliberately do anything massively destructive. If he can be kept in the dark until the election, it will be all to the good.

After the election, of course, he may be unable to avoid the fact that he has lost. Not that he won’t frantically try various tactics to undo the result. But the critical fact will be that those around him will know that he is on the way out. And therefore, it is in their own self-interest to avoid letting anything happen that would trash their personal employment prospects going forward. In short, his enablers are likely to cease enabling.

Sure, it would be nice if Trump could be persuaded to do something constructive about covid-19 or about the economy. But realistically, how likely is that? Is it even possible, given how he is? And since he can’t, better he continue to be encased in a Potemkin village where everything is going great. No matter what reality is outside.

846 thoughts on “In Praise of Potemkin”

  1. i’m definitely not one to put any credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. but, i think if his staff continues lying to him about how the election is going could put him the kind of mood where he really thinks there’s no way he could have lost – vs his just being an obstinate jerk and trying to lawyer a win out of an obvious loss. and if he really thinks he was cheated (and the yes-people around him reinforce the notion), he could make a lot of trouble.

  2. i’m definitely not one to put any credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. but, i think if his staff continues lying to him about how the election is going could put him the kind of mood where he really thinks there’s no way he could have lost – vs his just being an obstinate jerk and trying to lawyer a win out of an obvious loss. and if he really thinks he was cheated (and the yes-people around him reinforce the notion), he could make a lot of trouble.

  3. as an aside:
    you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. if he can find a way to get away with cheating, he will cheat. if he can find a way to game any part of the electoral system, he will do so.
    see also, crippling the USPS.
    it’s basically how he’s approached every damned thing in his life. why would this be different?

  4. as an aside:
    you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. if he can find a way to get away with cheating, he will cheat. if he can find a way to game any part of the electoral system, he will do so.
    see also, crippling the USPS.
    it’s basically how he’s approached every damned thing in his life. why would this be different?

  5. I’m with russell. Yes, of course he’s trying to steal it, and he may well succeed. He stole it last time, and he’s in a better position to do it this time.

  6. I’m with russell. Yes, of course he’s trying to steal it, and he may well succeed. He stole it last time, and he’s in a better position to do it this time.

  7. I’m OK with him trying to steal the election — IF he fails. But I’m more concerned with him deciding to trash the country in a fit of pique. The sort of thing any other spoiled (emotional) 3-year-old would do if not catered to. Even more than his on-going incompetence and petulance is doing, I mean. Not necessarily starting a war, as some here have worried. But something similarly damaging to the nation.

  8. I’m OK with him trying to steal the election — IF he fails. But I’m more concerned with him deciding to trash the country in a fit of pique. The sort of thing any other spoiled (emotional) 3-year-old would do if not catered to. Even more than his on-going incompetence and petulance is doing, I mean. Not necessarily starting a war, as some here have worried. But something similarly damaging to the nation.

  17. Another sociopath…
    https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/08/in-praise-of-potemkin-.html
    Georgia’s governor said Monday that the reopening of some of the state’s schools amid the coronavirus outbreak has gone well except for photos shared on social media showing students crowded together in hallways.
    “I think quite honestly this week went real well other than a couple of virtual photos,” Gov. Brian Kemp said at a news conference with the U.S. surgeon general….

  18. Another sociopath…
    https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/08/in-praise-of-potemkin-.html
    Georgia’s governor said Monday that the reopening of some of the state’s schools amid the coronavirus outbreak has gone well except for photos shared on social media showing students crowded together in hallways.
    “I think quite honestly this week went real well other than a couple of virtual photos,” Gov. Brian Kemp said at a news conference with the U.S. surgeon general….

  21. Those would be REAL photos, governor, of REAL students, in one case at a school that is now closed because some of those students and school staff have tested positive. Hope Abrams runs a better campaign in two years so we can be rid of this fool.

  22. Those would be REAL photos, governor, of REAL students, in one case at a school that is now closed because some of those students and school staff have tested positive. Hope Abrams runs a better campaign in two years so we can be rid of this fool.

  23. will he do what scummy politicians everywhere have always done – mislead, use the tools he legally has to try to push the odds in his favor, etc? of course he will. and what he doesn’t personally authorize, there are underlings everywhere who will be happy to take some initiative. that’s par for the course.
    by “steal” the election, i’m thinking of things like “cancelling” it, or somehow declaring himself President For Life, or refusing to leave the WH (and nobody is able to carry him out), or whatever.

  24. will he do what scummy politicians everywhere have always done – mislead, use the tools he legally has to try to push the odds in his favor, etc? of course he will. and what he doesn’t personally authorize, there are underlings everywhere who will be happy to take some initiative. that’s par for the course.
    by “steal” the election, i’m thinking of things like “cancelling” it, or somehow declaring himself President For Life, or refusing to leave the WH (and nobody is able to carry him out), or whatever.

  25. or refusing to leave the WH (and nobody is able to carry him out)
    That one, at least, won’t work. The Secret Service might have to bring in a fork lift, but they are perfectly capable of moving him. Sedated and in a straight jacket if necessary. And I suspect that, after 4 years of having to follow this bozo around, they will be all in favor of not having to do so any longer.

  26. or refusing to leave the WH (and nobody is able to carry him out)
    That one, at least, won’t work. The Secret Service might have to bring in a fork lift, but they are perfectly capable of moving him. Sedated and in a straight jacket if necessary. And I suspect that, after 4 years of having to follow this bozo around, they will be all in favor of not having to do so any longer.

  27. you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. if he can find a way to get away with cheating, he will cheat. if he can find a way to game any part of the electoral system, he will do so.
    Obviously, this.
    cleek, I can’t believe you really meant your first sentence @02.55 at the head of this thread! But if you did really mean it, could you explain why?

  28. you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff. if he can find a way to get away with cheating, he will cheat. if he can find a way to game any part of the electoral system, he will do so.
    Obviously, this.
    cleek, I can’t believe you really meant your first sentence @02.55 at the head of this thread! But if you did really mean it, could you explain why?

  31. you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff
    Me as well.
    Anything from out his thumb on the scale (manipulation of the postal vote etc) through to executive order postponing it indefinitely, were he able to get away with it.

  32. you can put me down as absolutely putting credence into the “Trump will steal the election” stuff
    Me as well.
    Anything from out his thumb on the scale (manipulation of the postal vote etc) through to executive order postponing it indefinitely, were he able to get away with it.

  33. cleek, sorry! I somehow missed the reference to President for Life in your 05.55, read the beginning I think and thought you were talking about the governor of Georgia! What a relief – I thought I was going crazy!

  34. cleek, sorry! I somehow missed the reference to President for Life in your 05.55, read the beginning I think and thought you were talking about the governor of Georgia! What a relief – I thought I was going crazy!

  35. Those who declare themselves “President for Life” should get their wish.
    Immediately.
    With “two in the noggin”

  36. Those who declare themselves “President for Life” should get their wish.
    Immediately.
    With “two in the noggin”

  43. Of course there are essential workers for them. How else would you characterize their housekeepers, yard staff, etc.? Without whom, they might have to do some real work themselves.

  44. Of course there are essential workers for them. How else would you characterize their housekeepers, yard staff, etc.? Without whom, they might have to do some real work themselves.

  47. “How else would you characterize their housekeepers, yard staff, etc.?”
    Overhead. Ever immigrant dispensable even as they are deemed essential and as they cough Covid into those chicken parts to feed Republican gobs.
    Romney’s moochers. Fat, black welfare queens.
    Quintessential.
    The meek who shall inherit the Conservative Movement Earth with Second Amendment solutions.
    But the conservative movement counts on their meekness.

  48. “How else would you characterize their housekeepers, yard staff, etc.?”
    Overhead. Ever immigrant dispensable even as they are deemed essential and as they cough Covid into those chicken parts to feed Republican gobs.
    Romney’s moochers. Fat, black welfare queens.
    Quintessential.
    The meek who shall inherit the Conservative Movement Earth with Second Amendment solutions.
    But the conservative movement counts on their meekness.

  51. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/trump-coronavirus-deaths-timeline.html?scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4
    I guess we can confiscate all of that pointless weaponry and ammo from shitheads, since the very occasion the Founders bequeathed the mealy-mouthed right to Americans has passed with nary a trigger-finger twitching by way of tree-of-liberty irrigation by pissy, armed conservatives.
    Mass, genocidal murder by government. Conservative movement gummint to be precise.
    Yeah but … masks.

  52. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/trump-coronavirus-deaths-timeline.html?scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4
    I guess we can confiscate all of that pointless weaponry and ammo from shitheads, since the very occasion the Founders bequeathed the mealy-mouthed right to Americans has passed with nary a trigger-finger twitching by way of tree-of-liberty irrigation by pissy, armed conservatives.
    Mass, genocidal murder by government. Conservative movement gummint to be precise.
    Yeah but … masks.

  55. Even my imagination falls short.
    Can you buy that rig at WalMart, or … what?
    I love that the KKK militias, all republican sponsored and funded, stopped to ask: “Who ARE those guys?”
    I wonder if Bellmore has one of those?
    And “HER rifle”?
    Man, I love that the conservative body count will be gender-neutral.
    Or, are those just cracker man-boobs visible?
    It’s so politically correct. Any gay hyphenated conservatives in the mix?
    Or is Peter Thiel too good for the street fray?

  56. Even my imagination falls short.
    Can you buy that rig at WalMart, or … what?
    I love that the KKK militias, all republican sponsored and funded, stopped to ask: “Who ARE those guys?”
    I wonder if Bellmore has one of those?
    And “HER rifle”?
    Man, I love that the conservative body count will be gender-neutral.
    Or, are those just cracker man-boobs visible?
    It’s so politically correct. Any gay hyphenated conservatives in the mix?
    Or is Peter Thiel too good for the street fray?

  57. The line I loved was

    the members of the armed group were “extremely aggravated” because they didn’t have anything to defend themselves from a flamethrower.

    Well, I guess I can see how it could be aggravating if your plans to act all brave, because the other guys aren’t armed, suddenly fall apart. These militias are threatening. But they are also incredibly pathetic.

  58. The line I loved was

    the members of the armed group were “extremely aggravated” because they didn’t have anything to defend themselves from a flamethrower.

    Well, I guess I can see how it could be aggravating if your plans to act all brave, because the other guys aren’t armed, suddenly fall apart. These militias are threatening. But they are also incredibly pathetic.

  59. “Hey JDT, was this you?”
    Another question: Will this be US three months from now?
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/10/1968221/-There-is-a-revolution-in-Belarus-This-is-important-for-us-in-the-United-States
    The opposition candidate, Belarus’ Biden ham sandwich, just fled the country, fearing for her life.
    Putin is watching.
    Trump is watching Putin help him to steal the election in November.
    “The Secret Service might have to bring in a fork lift, but they are perfectly capable of moving him. Sedated and in a straight jacket if necessary. And I suspect that, after 4 years of having to follow this bozo around, they will be all in favor of not having to do so any longer.”
    That would a satisfying spectacle.
    But what if the secret service inside the Secret Service arrests and detains winner Biden and his Vice President instead on Trump’s orders several days after the election.
    “These militias are threatening. But they are also incredibly pathetic.”
    Once they are ordered by Trump to fire their weapons at the Other in public, they’ll step up quickly from pathetic to the new norm of their fever dreams .. deadly and genocidal.

  60. “Hey JDT, was this you?”
    Another question: Will this be US three months from now?
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/10/1968221/-There-is-a-revolution-in-Belarus-This-is-important-for-us-in-the-United-States
    The opposition candidate, Belarus’ Biden ham sandwich, just fled the country, fearing for her life.
    Putin is watching.
    Trump is watching Putin help him to steal the election in November.
    “The Secret Service might have to bring in a fork lift, but they are perfectly capable of moving him. Sedated and in a straight jacket if necessary. And I suspect that, after 4 years of having to follow this bozo around, they will be all in favor of not having to do so any longer.”
    That would a satisfying spectacle.
    But what if the secret service inside the Secret Service arrests and detains winner Biden and his Vice President instead on Trump’s orders several days after the election.
    “These militias are threatening. But they are also incredibly pathetic.”
    Once they are ordered by Trump to fire their weapons at the Other in public, they’ll step up quickly from pathetic to the new norm of their fever dreams .. deadly and genocidal.

  63. Another question: Will this be US three months from now?
    Neo-Nazi white supremacist group Revolt through Tradition has begun covering BLM posters in Salem MA with their own stuff.
    Some locals say WTF, some say hey, free speech, some say great, it’s about time.
    When you’ve got a significant minority of the population saying hey, maybe we should give these Nazi folks a hearing, then you’ve got trouble. It makes it hard to tell just where the bottom is.
    Creeps like this have always been around. The remarkable innovation of the Trump years is that it is once again socially acceptable to wear your swastika in public. Perhaps even literally.
    Some very fine people, no doubt.
    I have no idea where we’re gonna be in three months. It could go in any number of directions, possibly several of them all at the same time.
    We’ll just have to wait and see.

  64. Another question: Will this be US three months from now?
    Neo-Nazi white supremacist group Revolt through Tradition has begun covering BLM posters in Salem MA with their own stuff.
    Some locals say WTF, some say hey, free speech, some say great, it’s about time.
    When you’ve got a significant minority of the population saying hey, maybe we should give these Nazi folks a hearing, then you’ve got trouble. It makes it hard to tell just where the bottom is.
    Creeps like this have always been around. The remarkable innovation of the Trump years is that it is once again socially acceptable to wear your swastika in public. Perhaps even literally.
    Some very fine people, no doubt.
    I have no idea where we’re gonna be in three months. It could go in any number of directions, possibly several of them all at the same time.
    We’ll just have to wait and see.

  65. “Warten wir es ab”
    All the cool German kids were saying it on February 1, 1933.
    Academic question for conservative Americans:
    In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    NOT knowing what we know now, but put yourselves in their time and place, when certain actions were A-OK, like, for example, antisemitism and racism, which seem to be escaping their political correct shackles and making a comeback.

  66. “Warten wir es ab”
    All the cool German kids were saying it on February 1, 1933.
    Academic question for conservative Americans:
    In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    NOT knowing what we know now, but put yourselves in their time and place, when certain actions were A-OK, like, for example, antisemitism and racism, which seem to be escaping their political correct shackles and making a comeback.

  67. In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    Well, as a sci-fi novel I heard about (or read? I can’t remember) some years ago, posited, that would not have helped.

  68. In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    Well, as a sci-fi novel I heard about (or read? I can’t remember) some years ago, posited, that would not have helped.

  69. But what if the secret service inside the Secret Service arrests and detains winner Biden and his Vice President instead on Trump’s orders several days after the election.
    I think you underestimate the pervasiveness of the deep state — that is, the portion of Federal employees who take their oath to support and defend the Constitution seriously. (Granted, their numbers seem to be a bit thin in Customs and Border Patrol. But I think they’re an anomaly.)

  70. But what if the secret service inside the Secret Service arrests and detains winner Biden and his Vice President instead on Trump’s orders several days after the election.
    I think you underestimate the pervasiveness of the deep state — that is, the portion of Federal employees who take their oath to support and defend the Constitution seriously. (Granted, their numbers seem to be a bit thin in Customs and Border Patrol. But I think they’re an anomaly.)

  71. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-considers-barring-reentry-americans-125653399.html
    Will they be able to vote?
    I’ll bet not.
    Will that edict include what we used to call American “diplomats”.
    But when they do return, if ever, they should head directly to their local gun store.
    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-people-men-insulted-biden-134308470.html
    All my life, I’ve heard conservatives start a sentence with “Some people say …..”
    As in, yes, in my presence: “Some people say Martin Luther King should be shot.” (this, not long before he WAS shot), and “Some people say JFK’s assassination was deserved.” (any number of right wing Texans, Rubio Cubans, and a republican who said it to my face roughly 30 years ago, and “Some people say we should just shoot the homeless.”, about five years ago, and “Some people say blacks and hispanics are inferior on the intelligence curve and that is why they are more susceptible to the Corona virus”, now THAT a few weeks ago, from a Trump hater.
    Actually, as political correctness has been beaten back in rude fucking armed America, more and more the some-people-say dodge is losing popularity.
    So, in that spirit, I say .. me … this guy right here … that the Republican conservative movement will be wiped off the face of the Earth, win or lose.

  72. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-considers-barring-reentry-americans-125653399.html
    Will they be able to vote?
    I’ll bet not.
    Will that edict include what we used to call American “diplomats”.
    But when they do return, if ever, they should head directly to their local gun store.
    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-people-men-insulted-biden-134308470.html
    All my life, I’ve heard conservatives start a sentence with “Some people say …..”
    As in, yes, in my presence: “Some people say Martin Luther King should be shot.” (this, not long before he WAS shot), and “Some people say JFK’s assassination was deserved.” (any number of right wing Texans, Rubio Cubans, and a republican who said it to my face roughly 30 years ago, and “Some people say we should just shoot the homeless.”, about five years ago, and “Some people say blacks and hispanics are inferior on the intelligence curve and that is why they are more susceptible to the Corona virus”, now THAT a few weeks ago, from a Trump hater.
    Actually, as political correctness has been beaten back in rude fucking armed America, more and more the some-people-say dodge is losing popularity.
    So, in that spirit, I say .. me … this guy right here … that the Republican conservative movement will be wiped off the face of the Earth, win or lose.

  73. There was no need to shoot Hitler. The 1917 flu stopped WWII before it even started. Learn your history, sheeple!

  74. There was no need to shoot Hitler. The 1917 flu stopped WWII before it even started. Learn your history, sheeple!

  75. In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    1918.
    It would even have been legal at that point.

  76. In what year before 1941 would it have been advisable to shoot Hitler in the head?
    1918.
    It would even have been legal at that point.

  77. Ben Shapiro did this:
    https://www.joe.co.uk/music/ben-shaprio-rcardi-b-lyrics-wap-246135
    Then subhuman conservative rapper Rush Limbaugh did this to an actual, living, breathing black woman who one day could be Vice President, even if it is from exile:
    https://www.mediamatters.org/rush-limbaugh/rush-limbaugh-resurrects-vile-sexist-smear-against-kamala-harris
    Ten cheers for metastatic lung cancer with complications from Covid-19, including hair loss in his final minutes.
    Yeah, I prefer “She .. loves you … yeah …. yeah …………..yeah, to Cardi B’s lyrics, in case the both-sides-do-it lapdogs weigh in.

  78. Ben Shapiro did this:
    https://www.joe.co.uk/music/ben-shaprio-rcardi-b-lyrics-wap-246135
    Then subhuman conservative rapper Rush Limbaugh did this to an actual, living, breathing black woman who one day could be Vice President, even if it is from exile:
    https://www.mediamatters.org/rush-limbaugh/rush-limbaugh-resurrects-vile-sexist-smear-against-kamala-harris
    Ten cheers for metastatic lung cancer with complications from Covid-19, including hair loss in his final minutes.
    Yeah, I prefer “She .. loves you … yeah …. yeah …………..yeah, to Cardi B’s lyrics, in case the both-sides-do-it lapdogs weigh in.

  79. Parts of the German military were willing and preparing to take Hitler out right before his Munich gamble. Afterwards, when Chamberlain bowed to Hitler’s demands, that option was off the table. Later the Brits planned to have a sniper kill Hitler but decided against it because they thought he would be replaced by someone less effective in bungling the war in the East, so keeping him alive would shorten the war. After the war many German generals claimed that they would have won the war if Hitler had listened to them. But the actual archival documents show that he DID more often than not. He was no genius but no idiot either and had a remarkable talent for hiring capable people.
    He almost died in a car accident between the annexation of Austria and the Munich agreement. Some reputable historians are of the opinion that in that case he would be fondly remembered and the downfall of his house of cards blamed on incompetent and corrupt successors. His antisemitism (at this point in time no talk of ‘the final solution’ yet*) would be seen as regrettable but not that uncommon.
    So, the question would be: Would we be willing to exchange WW2 and the holocaust for a world were Hitler was thought of as a tragic case of a Great taken in his prime?
    *actually the term or a similar one was used in combination with the Nuremberg race laws, so at least no genocidal connection.

  80. Parts of the German military were willing and preparing to take Hitler out right before his Munich gamble. Afterwards, when Chamberlain bowed to Hitler’s demands, that option was off the table. Later the Brits planned to have a sniper kill Hitler but decided against it because they thought he would be replaced by someone less effective in bungling the war in the East, so keeping him alive would shorten the war. After the war many German generals claimed that they would have won the war if Hitler had listened to them. But the actual archival documents show that he DID more often than not. He was no genius but no idiot either and had a remarkable talent for hiring capable people.
    He almost died in a car accident between the annexation of Austria and the Munich agreement. Some reputable historians are of the opinion that in that case he would be fondly remembered and the downfall of his house of cards blamed on incompetent and corrupt successors. His antisemitism (at this point in time no talk of ‘the final solution’ yet*) would be seen as regrettable but not that uncommon.
    So, the question would be: Would we be willing to exchange WW2 and the holocaust for a world were Hitler was thought of as a tragic case of a Great taken in his prime?
    *actually the term or a similar one was used in combination with the Nuremberg race laws, so at least no genocidal connection.

  83. All my life, I’ve heard conservatives start a sentence with “Some people say …..”
    The correct response to this is “yeah, but what do *you* say?”.
    The “some people say” thing is BS. It’s somebody wanting to float something out there, without owning it.
    Make them own it.
    The Trump presidency has been one unending adventure in ignorant bigots trolling the world to see what they can get away with. That extends back long before Trump, for that matter, the whole conservative pundit industry have made a lucrative business model out of it.
    Fine with me, show me what you’re made of. Let us all see what’s going on inside those tiny minds of yours.
    But the rest of us need to draw lines. No freaking “some people say” BS.
    You say it, you own it.

  84. All my life, I’ve heard conservatives start a sentence with “Some people say …..”
    The correct response to this is “yeah, but what do *you* say?”.
    The “some people say” thing is BS. It’s somebody wanting to float something out there, without owning it.
    Make them own it.
    The Trump presidency has been one unending adventure in ignorant bigots trolling the world to see what they can get away with. That extends back long before Trump, for that matter, the whole conservative pundit industry have made a lucrative business model out of it.
    Fine with me, show me what you’re made of. Let us all see what’s going on inside those tiny minds of yours.
    But the rest of us need to draw lines. No freaking “some people say” BS.
    You say it, you own it.

  93. For the first time since 1918, the Russkies are off the hook with the fascist right in that thing, what is it? America?
    Republicans are bottling their precious bodily fluids for sale in Moscow sperm banks.

  94. For the first time since 1918, the Russkies are off the hook with the fascist right in that thing, what is it? America?
    Republicans are bottling their precious bodily fluids for sale in Moscow sperm banks.

  97. Trump/Putin/Barr are considering bringing hundreds of thousands of crack Russian troops into the United States to vaccinate Americans with the new Russian Covid-19 vaccine, help deliver the mail, monitor polling places and to count the mail-in/absentee ballots.
    They’ll be arriving in your communities along about October 1, this Fall.
    You can recognize them by their MAGA hats. Otherwise, all of them will appear to be your republican family members, neighbors, church friends, and blogging mates who have felt afraid all these years of saying what’s really on their minds.
    Don’t be fooled. You’ve heard of “some people who say”? Well, these are those people.
    A special KGB detail will round up Democratic Party child molesters identified by QAnon.
    QAnon issued a statement thru the White House press office stating that for efficiency’s sake, it would be more effective to round up all registered Democrats for the sake of the children, rather than trying to identify the seven barely innocent Democrats in the country who have never set foot in a pizza joint, on account of their allergies and who thus have alibis.
    Texas, Florida, South Dakota and Georgia Governors are fully on board, as long as assurances are provided that no United Nations or WHO health experts sneak into their states too.
    Trump hotels, resorts, and golf clubs around the country will serve as housing mustering and supply line bases for the troops.
    The Treasury Department will transfer tax monies into Trump’s family accounts to cover the luxury costs of our … “guests”.

  98. Trump/Putin/Barr are considering bringing hundreds of thousands of crack Russian troops into the United States to vaccinate Americans with the new Russian Covid-19 vaccine, help deliver the mail, monitor polling places and to count the mail-in/absentee ballots.
    They’ll be arriving in your communities along about October 1, this Fall.
    You can recognize them by their MAGA hats. Otherwise, all of them will appear to be your republican family members, neighbors, church friends, and blogging mates who have felt afraid all these years of saying what’s really on their minds.
    Don’t be fooled. You’ve heard of “some people who say”? Well, these are those people.
    A special KGB detail will round up Democratic Party child molesters identified by QAnon.
    QAnon issued a statement thru the White House press office stating that for efficiency’s sake, it would be more effective to round up all registered Democrats for the sake of the children, rather than trying to identify the seven barely innocent Democrats in the country who have never set foot in a pizza joint, on account of their allergies and who thus have alibis.
    Texas, Florida, South Dakota and Georgia Governors are fully on board, as long as assurances are provided that no United Nations or WHO health experts sneak into their states too.
    Trump hotels, resorts, and golf clubs around the country will serve as housing mustering and supply line bases for the troops.
    The Treasury Department will transfer tax monies into Trump’s family accounts to cover the luxury costs of our … “guests”.

  103. Open thread, huh?
    My chronic exertional compartment syndrome has improved to the point that I could walk three miles this morning. Right lower leg got uncomfortable by the end, but neither one really hurt. The doc and physical therapist are still perplexed that I can get on a bike and ride all day without any problems.

  104. Open thread, huh?
    My chronic exertional compartment syndrome has improved to the point that I could walk three miles this morning. Right lower leg got uncomfortable by the end, but neither one really hurt. The doc and physical therapist are still perplexed that I can get on a bike and ride all day without any problems.

  105. Sanity starts to creep in.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/11/big-ten-cancels-fall-college-football-season/
    Let’s face it. You can make a case, not a really strong one, but a case, that reopening schools should happen for the sake of children’s education. Even with the risk of covid-19 spreading as a result.
    But what possible excuse is there for resuming athletics? None that any sensible adult wouldn’t be embarrassed to make. It’s raw exploitation, plain and simple.

  106. Sanity starts to creep in.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/11/big-ten-cancels-fall-college-football-season/
    Let’s face it. You can make a case, not a really strong one, but a case, that reopening schools should happen for the sake of children’s education. Even with the risk of covid-19 spreading as a result.
    But what possible excuse is there for resuming athletics? None that any sensible adult wouldn’t be embarrassed to make. It’s raw exploitation, plain and simple.

  107. Ship’s pool:
    Will Harris get attacked first for being female or for being black?
    She’ll get attacked for both, of course. But where will the scum decide to start…?

  108. Ship’s pool:
    Will Harris get attacked first for being female or for being black?
    She’ll get attacked for both, of course. But where will the scum decide to start…?

  109. Let’s face it. You can make a case, not a really strong one, but a case, that reopening schools should happen for the sake of children’s education. Even with the risk of covid-19 spreading as a result.
    I occasionally teach a research writing class on the subject of children in armed conflicts. I’ve had dozens of students write papers analyzing the best ways to provide children with their human right of access to an education in dangerous circumstances.
    This is no different.
    If concentrating students and teachers in one location or gathering in numbers is dangerous. then we have models of how to mobilize resources and deal with that. There are whole organizations and publications that specialize in exactly this sort of thing and they have already shared their best practices with the world. The results fall short of what can be expected in more ideal circumstances, but life goes on and societies adapt. In the long run it is less costly than losing a huge chunk of the population – mostly children and educators. The road back from that is longer and bumpier.
    The important thing to recognize and accept is that there is no approach in these circumstances that leads to normalcy.
    Sorry.

  110. Let’s face it. You can make a case, not a really strong one, but a case, that reopening schools should happen for the sake of children’s education. Even with the risk of covid-19 spreading as a result.
    I occasionally teach a research writing class on the subject of children in armed conflicts. I’ve had dozens of students write papers analyzing the best ways to provide children with their human right of access to an education in dangerous circumstances.
    This is no different.
    If concentrating students and teachers in one location or gathering in numbers is dangerous. then we have models of how to mobilize resources and deal with that. There are whole organizations and publications that specialize in exactly this sort of thing and they have already shared their best practices with the world. The results fall short of what can be expected in more ideal circumstances, but life goes on and societies adapt. In the long run it is less costly than losing a huge chunk of the population – mostly children and educators. The road back from that is longer and bumpier.
    The important thing to recognize and accept is that there is no approach in these circumstances that leads to normalcy.
    Sorry.

  111. Will Harris get attacked first for being female or for being black?
    Well, when she was still running for the top spot she got attacked for not being black enough, with the attackers meaning she didn’t grow up inner-city poor.

  112. Will Harris get attacked first for being female or for being black?
    Well, when she was still running for the top spot she got attacked for not being black enough, with the attackers meaning she didn’t grow up inner-city poor.

  113. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.

  114. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.

  115. Another coastal elite, the Dems just don’t give a damn about the heartland. I guess that swings. California and black women to the Democrats. Oh, wait.
    She will be a great attacker for the rest of the campaign and a competent President. She was always his best choice. IMO.

  116. Another coastal elite, the Dems just don’t give a damn about the heartland. I guess that swings. California and black women to the Democrats. Oh, wait.
    She will be a great attacker for the rest of the campaign and a competent President. She was always his best choice. IMO.

  117. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    OK, one guess/argument for attacked for being female.

  118. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    OK, one guess/argument for attacked for being female.

  119. California and black women to the Democrats.
    The critical point there being turnout by black women. Which could well make a difference in places as un-California as North Carolina and Georgia. Or even Texas.

  120. California and black women to the Democrats.
    The critical point there being turnout by black women. Which could well make a difference in places as un-California as North Carolina and Georgia. Or even Texas.

  123. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    Wankers.

  124. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    Wankers.

  125. Actually wj I am not sure she will produce that, in black women or women in general. She could, but she’s not really all that black and she slept her way to the top. This stuff just writes itself.
    Just kidding, turnout matters and she can help there, but she is also a pretty left leaning candidate but has law and order creds that I think will move suburban, professional women in greater numbers than anyone else he could have picked.

  126. Actually wj I am not sure she will produce that, in black women or women in general. She could, but she’s not really all that black and she slept her way to the top. This stuff just writes itself.
    Just kidding, turnout matters and she can help there, but she is also a pretty left leaning candidate but has law and order creds that I think will move suburban, professional women in greater numbers than anyone else he could have picked.

  127. the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    don’t call them sexist, tho. that would be worse than actual sexism.

  128. the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    don’t call them sexist, tho. that would be worse than actual sexism.

  129. Every accusation is a confession, part the infinity.
    Far more evidence that Nikki Haley “slept her way to (not quite) the top”. Of course the beneficiaries of Nikki Nooki are a-okay with it.

  130. Every accusation is a confession, part the infinity.
    Far more evidence that Nikki Haley “slept her way to (not quite) the top”. Of course the beneficiaries of Nikki Nooki are a-okay with it.

  131. Harris won two different statewide offices in a state that is very heavily Latino. I suggest that the fact that Biden wins if he holds what Clinton won, and flips AZ and FL on Latino turnout, is important.

  132. Harris won two different statewide offices in a state that is very heavily Latino. I suggest that the fact that Biden wins if he holds what Clinton won, and flips AZ and FL on Latino turnout, is important.

  135. the Dems just don’t give a damn about the heartland.
    The thing that everyone likes to say about (D)’s and minorities – that they are the (D)’s “plantation”, that they keep promising them wonderful things for their votes and then forget about them the day after election day?
    That’s the (R)’s and the “heartland”.

  136. the Dems just don’t give a damn about the heartland.
    The thing that everyone likes to say about (D)’s and minorities – that they are the (D)’s “plantation”, that they keep promising them wonderful things for their votes and then forget about them the day after election day?
    That’s the (R)’s and the “heartland”.

  137. coastal elite?
    Marty.
    Marty, Marrrrty! Florida, Texas, and Massachusetts, your hangouts (unless now you are going to say you are living in Kansas), all have extensive coasts.
    That salt in your veins ain’t sclerotic sodium chloride of the earth heartland, it’s sea salt, probably briny.
    And yet you have maintained, or fake, a deep state deplorable provincial outlook and have never risen above your station. 😉
    Plus, the so-called heartland, more like the land of a whole lotta gall, was once a vast inland sea.
    Let the crapola sing.

  138. coastal elite?
    Marty.
    Marty, Marrrrty! Florida, Texas, and Massachusetts, your hangouts (unless now you are going to say you are living in Kansas), all have extensive coasts.
    That salt in your veins ain’t sclerotic sodium chloride of the earth heartland, it’s sea salt, probably briny.
    And yet you have maintained, or fake, a deep state deplorable provincial outlook and have never risen above your station. 😉
    Plus, the so-called heartland, more like the land of a whole lotta gall, was once a vast inland sea.
    Let the crapola sing.

  141. the DemsRethuglicans just don’t give a damn about the heartland vast urban areas of our country where the MAJORITY of real Americans live.
    The thing that everyone likes to say about (DR)’s and minoritiesrural white people – that they are the (DR)’s “plantation”, that they keep promising them wonderful things for their votes and then forget about them the day after election day?
    That’s the (R)’s and the (so-called) “heartland”.

  142. the DemsRethuglicans just don’t give a damn about the heartland vast urban areas of our country where the MAJORITY of real Americans live.
    The thing that everyone likes to say about (DR)’s and minoritiesrural white people – that they are the (DR)’s “plantation”, that they keep promising them wonderful things for their votes and then forget about them the day after election day?
    That’s the (R)’s and the (so-called) “heartland”.

  145. I would advise the Biden/Harris campaign to hire heavily armed bodyguards to keep all suspected conservatives/republicans as far as way physically from the candidates as possible.
    That death cult is sending deliberately infected suicide super-spreaders, symptomatic and asymptomatic, including their children, to sicken and kill our candidates.
    FOX News, Brietbart, Oan, Redstate, and the rest are handing out Covid-19 virus popsicles to all of their political reporters who will shove Covid-laced mics in our candidates’ faces and huff and puff droplet-laden spittal insutls into their faces with their “Why are you beating MY wife?” inquiries.
    And for pity’s sake, don’t kiss any babies handed to over the velvet rope you in a crowd, Joe and Kamala, without a thorough vetting of their “parents’, by licensed veterinarians.
    Besides, if Biden kisses baby in a campaign stop at a pizza parlour, after QAnon gets a hold of that news, he might as well adjourn to the joint’s basement and have his way with the infant anyway.
    You’ve heard of anchor babies, I spose?
    Now be on the lookout for republican children trying to place fatal schmooches to our candidates.
    Fascist Covid-babies.
    I mean, they are trying to kill us NOW.
    What do you think they have in store for our socialist, muslim, chinky operative, black lives don’t matter, double-lifed gay, child molesting, anchovies on pizza, open borders, fetus devouring, tax hound candidates, who are probably sodomizing each other as we speak?
    Hanh?
    I’m not kidding.
    Shoot to kill anyone who tries to infect our candidates dead on sight.

  146. I would advise the Biden/Harris campaign to hire heavily armed bodyguards to keep all suspected conservatives/republicans as far as way physically from the candidates as possible.
    That death cult is sending deliberately infected suicide super-spreaders, symptomatic and asymptomatic, including their children, to sicken and kill our candidates.
    FOX News, Brietbart, Oan, Redstate, and the rest are handing out Covid-19 virus popsicles to all of their political reporters who will shove Covid-laced mics in our candidates’ faces and huff and puff droplet-laden spittal insutls into their faces with their “Why are you beating MY wife?” inquiries.
    And for pity’s sake, don’t kiss any babies handed to over the velvet rope you in a crowd, Joe and Kamala, without a thorough vetting of their “parents’, by licensed veterinarians.
    Besides, if Biden kisses baby in a campaign stop at a pizza parlour, after QAnon gets a hold of that news, he might as well adjourn to the joint’s basement and have his way with the infant anyway.
    You’ve heard of anchor babies, I spose?
    Now be on the lookout for republican children trying to place fatal schmooches to our candidates.
    Fascist Covid-babies.
    I mean, they are trying to kill us NOW.
    What do you think they have in store for our socialist, muslim, chinky operative, black lives don’t matter, double-lifed gay, child molesting, anchovies on pizza, open borders, fetus devouring, tax hound candidates, who are probably sodomizing each other as we speak?
    Hanh?
    I’m not kidding.
    Shoot to kill anyone who tries to infect our candidates dead on sight.

  147. I took Marty to be imitating Republican talking points in a predictive fashion, not espousing them.

  148. I took Marty to be imitating Republican talking points in a predictive fashion, not espousing them.

  151. It seems like an excellent choice, given all the necessary calculations. And Marty’s comments cheer me too. Let’s hope many conservatives think the same way. Onward and upward – no pasaran!

  152. It seems like an excellent choice, given all the necessary calculations. And Marty’s comments cheer me too. Let’s hope many conservatives think the same way. Onward and upward – no pasaran!

  155. Very influential bond king, who called 2016, predicts Trump will win again in the Fall:
    \https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey-gundlach-says-base-case-is-trump-wins-re-election-215711167.html
    Say Harris is too, God forbid, charismatic.
    He’s afraid she’ll stand over a manhole, maybe his, on election night, and let her skirts be blown up, like Marilyn, to clinch the thing.
    He should check and see if his building has adequate fire escape access and rooftop rescue in place if Trump wins.
    Assholes always carry the day in pigfucker America.
    I think he’s right, though.
    And then the END.

  156. Very influential bond king, who called 2016, predicts Trump will win again in the Fall:
    \https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey-gundlach-says-base-case-is-trump-wins-re-election-215711167.html
    Say Harris is too, God forbid, charismatic.
    He’s afraid she’ll stand over a manhole, maybe his, on election night, and let her skirts be blown up, like Marilyn, to clinch the thing.
    He should check and see if his building has adequate fire escape access and rooftop rescue in place if Trump wins.
    Assholes always carry the day in pigfucker America.
    I think he’s right, though.
    And then the END.

  157. We don’t need your 9:09, JT. You may well be right, but we don’t need this right now.
    We need everyone to believe one last time (if it’s that) that they can vote them out. If it doesn’t happen, you were right. Fine. Whatever.

  158. We don’t need your 9:09, JT. You may well be right, but we don’t need this right now.
    We need everyone to believe one last time (if it’s that) that they can vote them out. If it doesn’t happen, you were right. Fine. Whatever.

  159. Being right, or claiming I’m right, is the least of my worries.
    I just want to kill this guy before he kills me:
    https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1292984224518209537
    No one here is going to be disenthused and not vote or vote for Trump because I’m a realist about the subhuman sadists we are up against and the EVIL they will perpetrate,
    I’m all in on Biden.
    If he loses, then Trump is right and THAT will be the end of any peace in this country.
    I don’t matter.
    sapient, we are on the same word in the same sentence on the same page of the same book.
    Let it be. I have never once censored YOU.
    Yell at Marty or someone else who disagrees with you.

  160. Being right, or claiming I’m right, is the least of my worries.
    I just want to kill this guy before he kills me:
    https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1292984224518209537
    No one here is going to be disenthused and not vote or vote for Trump because I’m a realist about the subhuman sadists we are up against and the EVIL they will perpetrate,
    I’m all in on Biden.
    If he loses, then Trump is right and THAT will be the end of any peace in this country.
    I don’t matter.
    sapient, we are on the same word in the same sentence on the same page of the same book.
    Let it be. I have never once censored YOU.
    Yell at Marty or someone else who disagrees with you.

  161. Ok, that was a little harsh.
    I apologize.
    And that guy in the video reminds me of dozens of assholes in baseball and softball games who I played against who got louder and more insulting and ever more courageous, but only as five of their teammates got between me and them and carried them off to the parking lot and then thought maybe they should call the cops on ME, because I’m Billy Martin nuts in sports and politics.
    The rest of the time, I read and mind my own business and help my friends and family.

  162. Ok, that was a little harsh.
    I apologize.
    And that guy in the video reminds me of dozens of assholes in baseball and softball games who I played against who got louder and more insulting and ever more courageous, but only as five of their teammates got between me and them and carried them off to the parking lot and then thought maybe they should call the cops on ME, because I’m Billy Martin nuts in sports and politics.
    The rest of the time, I read and mind my own business and help my friends and family.

  165. Starting already to see comments suggesting that, as a result of Harris being picked, Trump will dump Pence. Most suggesting replacement by Haley, though I doubt she would be dumb enough to take it.
    But I was amused to see this:
    “Pence is toast. Trump will have to dump him. For a girl. Maybe Ghislaine?”

  166. Starting already to see comments suggesting that, as a result of Harris being picked, Trump will dump Pence. Most suggesting replacement by Haley, though I doubt she would be dumb enough to take it.
    But I was amused to see this:
    “Pence is toast. Trump will have to dump him. For a girl. Maybe Ghislaine?”

  169. Pence’s wife is just now on her knees in prayer that Trump dumps the hubby … geez, Mike, you got what you wanted, now get away from me … but Pence, being a fine crypto-Christian gas station owner poisoning his neighbors’ water supplies with his corroded, leaking, Marty-approved unregulated below ground gas storage tanks, and beseeching God that the real God, Trump, opts for Haley, who has proven she can dumb down when power calls.
    Pence, himself barely sentient outside of Bible study class, will be relieved, because he’s fed up himself with the “Shut up, Mel” routine, as Trump consults his Cabinet, and would like to return to whatever “I” state that is and resume his small-scale conservative grifts:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGEOjxtQtWc
    Shut up, Mel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbk27GMdC0

  170. Pence’s wife is just now on her knees in prayer that Trump dumps the hubby … geez, Mike, you got what you wanted, now get away from me … but Pence, being a fine crypto-Christian gas station owner poisoning his neighbors’ water supplies with his corroded, leaking, Marty-approved unregulated below ground gas storage tanks, and beseeching God that the real God, Trump, opts for Haley, who has proven she can dumb down when power calls.
    Pence, himself barely sentient outside of Bible study class, will be relieved, because he’s fed up himself with the “Shut up, Mel” routine, as Trump consults his Cabinet, and would like to return to whatever “I” state that is and resume his small-scale conservative grifts:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGEOjxtQtWc
    Shut up, Mel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbk27GMdC0

  171. Corey Lewandowski freaked out about the mere idea of a female VP candidate a few days ago (i.e. even before Harris was announced).
    Ok, formally he freaked out about the pre-exclusion of a male running mate but the gist was clearly ‘why choose a woman if there are qualified males to choose from?’.

  172. Corey Lewandowski freaked out about the mere idea of a female VP candidate a few days ago (i.e. even before Harris was announced).
    Ok, formally he freaked out about the pre-exclusion of a male running mate but the gist was clearly ‘why choose a woman if there are qualified males to choose from?’.

  175. the gist was clearly ‘why choose a woman if there are qualified males to choose from?’.
    One might equally ask, “Why choose Corey Lewandowski for anything when there are qualified (or even just equally unqualified) anybody else available?” Yet he no doubt expects that there is an adequate supply of fools who will. At least Biden has a shot at getting competent performance from his choice.

  176. the gist was clearly ‘why choose a woman if there are qualified males to choose from?’.
    One might equally ask, “Why choose Corey Lewandowski for anything when there are qualified (or even just equally unqualified) anybody else available?” Yet he no doubt expects that there is an adequate supply of fools who will. At least Biden has a shot at getting competent performance from his choice.

  177. The “some people say” thing is BS. It’s somebody wanting to float something out there, without owning it.
    Trump (to Hannity, who else?) on the selection of Harris:
    “A lot of people think it’s a dangerous choice,”
    So now we know how he sees this impacting his reelection chances.

  178. The “some people say” thing is BS. It’s somebody wanting to float something out there, without owning it.
    Trump (to Hannity, who else?) on the selection of Harris:
    “A lot of people think it’s a dangerous choice,”
    So now we know how he sees this impacting his reelection chances.

  179. It’s wild (baseless?) speculation time!
    It occurs to me to wonder why it is that Trump has been far less nasty when talking about Harris than about any of the other contenders. Or anybody who opposes him on pretty much anything, for that matter. Especially anybody female. Could it be that, considering what a coward he is, she’s got him scared — and has had for some time? No idea why that might be, but it would explain the relative shortage of dumb nicknames, of nasty tweets, etc.
    It would also explain his comment, a few days ago, that “She would be my number 1 draft pick” for VP. Might have been a try to make Biden think that Trump preferred running against her, to push him towards a different choice.
    As I say, no idea if it’s true, or why it might be. But he’s definitely long treated her more gingerly than one would expect.

  180. It’s wild (baseless?) speculation time!
    It occurs to me to wonder why it is that Trump has been far less nasty when talking about Harris than about any of the other contenders. Or anybody who opposes him on pretty much anything, for that matter. Especially anybody female. Could it be that, considering what a coward he is, she’s got him scared — and has had for some time? No idea why that might be, but it would explain the relative shortage of dumb nicknames, of nasty tweets, etc.
    It would also explain his comment, a few days ago, that “She would be my number 1 draft pick” for VP. Might have been a try to make Biden think that Trump preferred running against her, to push him towards a different choice.
    As I say, no idea if it’s true, or why it might be. But he’s definitely long treated her more gingerly than one would expect.

  181. Trump told Hannity that absentee ballots are being sent to dogs by Russian wolf hounds and Chinese Pekingese.
    Rick Santorum’s dogs are voting for Trump on account of that that he is going to double the marital deduction.

  182. Trump told Hannity that absentee ballots are being sent to dogs by Russian wolf hounds and Chinese Pekingese.
    Rick Santorum’s dogs are voting for Trump on account of that that he is going to double the marital deduction.

  183. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    I don’t think it would be wise of Trump or Rush to take that line.
    Which is not to say they won’t.

  184. It seems the right wing (starting with Rush) are trying to push the narrative that Harris slept her way to the top.
    I don’t think it would be wise of Trump or Rush to take that line.
    Which is not to say they won’t.

  185. Limbaugh already has “taken that line”.
    https://www.mediamatters.org/rush-limbaugh/rush-limbaugh-resurrects-vile-sexist-smear-against-kamala-harris
    As has Tomi Lahren at FOX, where going “down” is how both men and women who work there move “up”.
    My God, until Ailes left and croaked, employees had to enter his executive lair crawling on their hands and knees while blindfolded for their “performance” evaluations.
    https://hiphopwired.com/playlist/tomi-lahren-sexist-tweet-kamala-harris-willie-brown/
    How is that expectations of wisdom from these ilk live on despite 40 years of this stuff?

  186. Limbaugh already has “taken that line”.
    https://www.mediamatters.org/rush-limbaugh/rush-limbaugh-resurrects-vile-sexist-smear-against-kamala-harris
    As has Tomi Lahren at FOX, where going “down” is how both men and women who work there move “up”.
    My God, until Ailes left and croaked, employees had to enter his executive lair crawling on their hands and knees while blindfolded for their “performance” evaluations.
    https://hiphopwired.com/playlist/tomi-lahren-sexist-tweet-kamala-harris-willie-brown/
    How is that expectations of wisdom from these ilk live on despite 40 years of this stuff?

  187. via Hullabaloo:
    ‘David Von Drehle of the Washington Post gives us a taste of what a Trump acceptance speech might sound like delivered from the Confederate side of the Gettysburg battlefield:
    “Four score and seven years ago. Not everyone knows a score. People ask me, they say, ‘What’s a score?’ Fauci the other day. What’s a score? Not everyone knows. The score is the best it’s ever been. Under Trump, 87. Under Obama, not so much.
    “Eighty-seven tremendous, tremendous years ago — and some years that were not so great, frankly — our fathers brought forth; also the mothers, the great suburban mothers. Biden wants to take away their dream. Our fathers and our mothers brought forth a new nation. How they did it: not so good. Not so perfect. A lot of people got hurt. Some were bad people, but a lot of them were good. The king of England, not everyone agrees he was so bad, but now they have a queen. Very few people know this.
    “Someone told me Thomas Jefferson ate by himself at the White House and was the smartest one ever. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I frankly think my IQ — people tell me it is tremendous. The doctors see and they can’t believe it. They say, ‘Mr. President, this is unbelievable!’ It’s called a ‘cognitive test.’ Biden’s afraid to take it. Sleepy Joe.
    “My people, the best people, they tell me Thomas Jefferson made a good deal when he bought Louisiana, the great state of Louisiana, for 3 cents an acre. I say he must have read my book.’

  188. via Hullabaloo:
    ‘David Von Drehle of the Washington Post gives us a taste of what a Trump acceptance speech might sound like delivered from the Confederate side of the Gettysburg battlefield:
    “Four score and seven years ago. Not everyone knows a score. People ask me, they say, ‘What’s a score?’ Fauci the other day. What’s a score? Not everyone knows. The score is the best it’s ever been. Under Trump, 87. Under Obama, not so much.
    “Eighty-seven tremendous, tremendous years ago — and some years that were not so great, frankly — our fathers brought forth; also the mothers, the great suburban mothers. Biden wants to take away their dream. Our fathers and our mothers brought forth a new nation. How they did it: not so good. Not so perfect. A lot of people got hurt. Some were bad people, but a lot of them were good. The king of England, not everyone agrees he was so bad, but now they have a queen. Very few people know this.
    “Someone told me Thomas Jefferson ate by himself at the White House and was the smartest one ever. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I frankly think my IQ — people tell me it is tremendous. The doctors see and they can’t believe it. They say, ‘Mr. President, this is unbelievable!’ It’s called a ‘cognitive test.’ Biden’s afraid to take it. Sleepy Joe.
    “My people, the best people, they tell me Thomas Jefferson made a good deal when he bought Louisiana, the great state of Louisiana, for 3 cents an acre. I say he must have read my book.’

  191. As I say, no idea if it’s true, or why it might be. But he’s definitely long treated her more gingerly than one would expect.
    But, being selected as Biden’s running mate is the last(first?)straw…
    “The Trump campaign is continuing its attempt to paint Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.) as a dangerous left-wing radical in the wake of her selection as Joe Biden’s running mate. The latest angle of attack: her support for plastic straw bans.
    This morning, the campaign tweeted out a short new attack ad featuring footage of Harris saying that we should ban plastic straws in response to a question from CNN’s Erin Burnett at a 2019 town hall on climate issues.
    The short clip also features Biden saying at an earlier campaign event “I don’t think we should be using plastic straws anymore” in restaurants, although it’s unclear from the full clip of the former vice president’s remarks whether he endorses full prohibition.”
    Trump Campaign Attacks Kamala Harris for Wanting To Ban Plastic Straws: Both Harris and the Trump campaign agree that plastic straws are a superior product. Only Harris wants to ban them.

  192. As I say, no idea if it’s true, or why it might be. But he’s definitely long treated her more gingerly than one would expect.
    But, being selected as Biden’s running mate is the last(first?)straw…
    “The Trump campaign is continuing its attempt to paint Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.) as a dangerous left-wing radical in the wake of her selection as Joe Biden’s running mate. The latest angle of attack: her support for plastic straw bans.
    This morning, the campaign tweeted out a short new attack ad featuring footage of Harris saying that we should ban plastic straws in response to a question from CNN’s Erin Burnett at a 2019 town hall on climate issues.
    The short clip also features Biden saying at an earlier campaign event “I don’t think we should be using plastic straws anymore” in restaurants, although it’s unclear from the full clip of the former vice president’s remarks whether he endorses full prohibition.”
    Trump Campaign Attacks Kamala Harris for Wanting To Ban Plastic Straws: Both Harris and the Trump campaign agree that plastic straws are a superior product. Only Harris wants to ban them.

  193. Yup, Billy Woods. One of them coastal elites.
    How should the citizenry in Ocala respond to unmasked asymptomatic conservative movement law enforcement knocking on their front doors with a warrant or demanding you roll down your car window so they can breath on you?
    More and more guns are probably the answer.
    It’s republican subhuman America, after all.
    I guess women having the shit beat out of them by their husbands and boyfriends, but who have been trying to observe the mask and social distancing protocols aren’t going to be calling the cops in.
    It’s amazing how one type of republican assholery feeds directly into all republican assholery in a swirling interlocking shit storm of all-American republican assholery.
    Defund that police department.
    Woods will turn in his badge, his weapon, his Taser, his tear gas, his pension, and his health insurance card and be asked to step away from the public as he goes and fucks himself.

  194. Yup, Billy Woods. One of them coastal elites.
    How should the citizenry in Ocala respond to unmasked asymptomatic conservative movement law enforcement knocking on their front doors with a warrant or demanding you roll down your car window so they can breath on you?
    More and more guns are probably the answer.
    It’s republican subhuman America, after all.
    I guess women having the shit beat out of them by their husbands and boyfriends, but who have been trying to observe the mask and social distancing protocols aren’t going to be calling the cops in.
    It’s amazing how one type of republican assholery feeds directly into all republican assholery in a swirling interlocking shit storm of all-American republican assholery.
    Defund that police department.
    Woods will turn in his badge, his weapon, his Taser, his tear gas, his pension, and his health insurance card and be asked to step away from the public as he goes and fucks himself.

  195. i wonder how the former and current Ms Trumps feel about “sleeping your way to the top” as an insult…

  196. i wonder how the former and current Ms Trumps feel about “sleeping your way to the top” as an insult…

  197. Trump agrees with Harris…
    “President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign, which is depicting Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.), Joe Biden’s vice-presidential pick, as “far-left” and “radical,” was quick to note that the senator has criticized her running mate’s draconian record on criminal justice issues. Yet so have the Trump campaign and the president himself, which makes it hard to tell whether this point is meant to reflect badly on Harris or on Biden.
    “Harris has repeatedly slammed Biden, going so far as to say that he supported racist policies that hurt the Black community,” says a press release from the Trump campaign. “Harris said Biden’s 1994 crime bill ‘contribute[d] to mass incarceration’ in the U.S.””
    Kamala Harris Is So ‘Radical,’ Trump’s Campaign Says, That She Criticized Joe Biden’s Criminal Justice Record. So Does Trump.: Harris and Trump are both right that the Democratic nominee has a long record of championing draconian penalties.

  198. Trump agrees with Harris…
    “President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign, which is depicting Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.), Joe Biden’s vice-presidential pick, as “far-left” and “radical,” was quick to note that the senator has criticized her running mate’s draconian record on criminal justice issues. Yet so have the Trump campaign and the president himself, which makes it hard to tell whether this point is meant to reflect badly on Harris or on Biden.
    “Harris has repeatedly slammed Biden, going so far as to say that he supported racist policies that hurt the Black community,” says a press release from the Trump campaign. “Harris said Biden’s 1994 crime bill ‘contribute[d] to mass incarceration’ in the U.S.””
    Kamala Harris Is So ‘Radical,’ Trump’s Campaign Says, That She Criticized Joe Biden’s Criminal Justice Record. So Does Trump.: Harris and Trump are both right that the Democratic nominee has a long record of championing draconian penalties.

  199. “It’s enough to make me go all-out Thullen”
    yeahbut, then …. who will be left to say “Gotta say, I didn’t see THAT coming!”
    %-}
    You do your thing, I’ll do my thing.

  200. “It’s enough to make me go all-out Thullen”
    yeahbut, then …. who will be left to say “Gotta say, I didn’t see THAT coming!”
    %-}
    You do your thing, I’ll do my thing.

  201. “i wonder how the former and current Ms Trumps feel about “sleeping your way to the top” as an insult…”
    They’ll tell people they did it the honorable way;
    they slept their way to the bottom.

  202. “i wonder how the former and current Ms Trumps feel about “sleeping your way to the top” as an insult…”
    They’ll tell people they did it the honorable way;
    they slept their way to the bottom.

  205. We get so caught up in the moment, that it’s easy to lose track of long term trends. And even no so ling term ones.
    Ask yourself this. 20 years ago, could you have imagined a situation where choosing a black woman as your VP running mate would be regarded as the SAFE choice??? Not the choice you made (like Ferraro or Palin) to try to pick up a lagging campaign. But the safe choice.

  206. We get so caught up in the moment, that it’s easy to lose track of long term trends. And even no so ling term ones.
    Ask yourself this. 20 years ago, could you have imagined a situation where choosing a black woman as your VP running mate would be regarded as the SAFE choice??? Not the choice you made (like Ferraro or Palin) to try to pick up a lagging campaign. But the safe choice.

  209. It’s enough to make me go all-out Thullen
    It’s hard for me to think of stuff like this as anything other than a kind of belligerent, deliberate stupidity. A willful denial of basic reality.
    I have no idea how you make a dent in that.
    We have someone headed for Congress from GA who believes George Soros is a Nazi, participating in a secret world government that, among other things, engages in child sex trafficking.
    That is clinical delusional paranoia. It is literally insane.
    There is no rational argument to counter stuff like this. There is no room for compromise, no room for the give and take of ideas.
    What is the middle ground between (for example) “we need a plan to transition away from fossil fuels” and “a shadow government wants to enslave us all and sell our children for sex”?
    This is not a social or political movement, it is a form of collective mental illness.
    I’m at a loss. I hope to see the back of Trump in November, but he’s just an opportunist, riding the wave of all of this madness.
    Whoever wins in November, on January 21 2021 we’re all gonna wake up in a nation that is at least partly insane.
    I don’t really know where this all goes.

  210. It’s enough to make me go all-out Thullen
    It’s hard for me to think of stuff like this as anything other than a kind of belligerent, deliberate stupidity. A willful denial of basic reality.
    I have no idea how you make a dent in that.
    We have someone headed for Congress from GA who believes George Soros is a Nazi, participating in a secret world government that, among other things, engages in child sex trafficking.
    That is clinical delusional paranoia. It is literally insane.
    There is no rational argument to counter stuff like this. There is no room for compromise, no room for the give and take of ideas.
    What is the middle ground between (for example) “we need a plan to transition away from fossil fuels” and “a shadow government wants to enslave us all and sell our children for sex”?
    This is not a social or political movement, it is a form of collective mental illness.
    I’m at a loss. I hope to see the back of Trump in November, but he’s just an opportunist, riding the wave of all of this madness.
    Whoever wins in November, on January 21 2021 we’re all gonna wake up in a nation that is at least partly insane.
    I don’t really know where this all goes.

  211. Ask yourself this. 20 years ago, could you have imagined a situation where choosing a black woman as your VP running mate would be regarded as the SAFE choice???
    And it only took 230 years.
    Not disparaging your comment here, just providing some context.

  212. Ask yourself this. 20 years ago, could you have imagined a situation where choosing a black woman as your VP running mate would be regarded as the SAFE choice???
    And it only took 230 years.
    Not disparaging your comment here, just providing some context.

  213. And it only took 230 years.
    Plus, we still have a long way to go. But still, it’s occasionally good to remember that we are making progress. Slow progress, admittedly. And in the midst currently, as you note, of some rather pervasive insanity. But still, progress.

  214. And it only took 230 years.
    Plus, we still have a long way to go. But still, it’s occasionally good to remember that we are making progress. Slow progress, admittedly. And in the midst currently, as you note, of some rather pervasive insanity. But still, progress.

  215. Georgia does have the distinction of sending a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society to Congress. Perhaps sweet nostalgia allows one to view that as a kinder, gentler delusional paranoia.
    And presumably the Russians would be less disposed towards to sending MiGs to take out our new Rep.-to-be. Is Korean Airlines still even an entity?

  216. Georgia does have the distinction of sending a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society to Congress. Perhaps sweet nostalgia allows one to view that as a kinder, gentler delusional paranoia.
    And presumably the Russians would be less disposed towards to sending MiGs to take out our new Rep.-to-be. Is Korean Airlines still even an entity?

  217. I suppose my view is colored by the fact that I can personally remember it being a Big Deal that we had nominated, and actually elected, a Catholic. (That would be Kennedy, for the historically challenged.) Today, the fact that Biden is Catholic only gets mentioned in the context of contrasting him to Trump’s lack of religious beliefs (or even basic knowledge).
    I’m betting even the evangelicals won’t waste energy this election cycle being exercised by the possibility of the Pope taking over the country. But I can remember when it was, for some people, a serious concern. To the point that Kennedy found it necessary to put out a formal statement saying that he wouldn’t be taking directions from the Pope.

  218. I suppose my view is colored by the fact that I can personally remember it being a Big Deal that we had nominated, and actually elected, a Catholic. (That would be Kennedy, for the historically challenged.) Today, the fact that Biden is Catholic only gets mentioned in the context of contrasting him to Trump’s lack of religious beliefs (or even basic knowledge).
    I’m betting even the evangelicals won’t waste energy this election cycle being exercised by the possibility of the Pope taking over the country. But I can remember when it was, for some people, a serious concern. To the point that Kennedy found it necessary to put out a formal statement saying that he wouldn’t be taking directions from the Pope.

  219. wj, there was already some dogwhistling towards evangelicals about Biden being a papist. The bullhorn is just a matter of time. Subtlety is not Jabbabonk’s strong side, so I assume that it was written for him by the usual suspects (and I would not be surprised if he mistook it for claims that Biden is an atheist (enemy of G#d).

  220. wj, there was already some dogwhistling towards evangelicals about Biden being a papist. The bullhorn is just a matter of time. Subtlety is not Jabbabonk’s strong side, so I assume that it was written for him by the usual suspects (and I would not be surprised if he mistook it for claims that Biden is an atheist (enemy of G#d).

  221. Comments from the evangelical peanut gallery overseen on FB:
    “Oh dear people, it has nothing to do with a virus at this point. If the Church of God, Body of Christ, does not wake up, stand up, repent for the sin of political agnosticism and ineffective “seeker friendly” mentality, we may loose our religious liberties all together.
    The elite are peddling soft communism….”
    This after one person (lifelong evangelical, missionary kid) dared to question a megachurch pastor’s motivation for challenging gathering size regulations and (mildly) questioned Trump’s faith.

  222. Comments from the evangelical peanut gallery overseen on FB:
    “Oh dear people, it has nothing to do with a virus at this point. If the Church of God, Body of Christ, does not wake up, stand up, repent for the sin of political agnosticism and ineffective “seeker friendly” mentality, we may loose our religious liberties all together.
    The elite are peddling soft communism….”
    This after one person (lifelong evangelical, missionary kid) dared to question a megachurch pastor’s motivation for challenging gathering size regulations and (mildly) questioned Trump’s faith.

  223. Trump is already talking to HIS loyalists in the American military about arresting both of these retired officers the day after the election, if not before, if he loses.
    If he loses, or cheats to win, these gentleman need to go underground and ready themselves to guide a savage Civil War for the future of America.
    https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/08/all-enemies-foreign-and-domestic-open-letter-gen-milley/167625/
    Joe Biden is going to have his hands full arresting and executing deep state trump traitors and loyalists throughout the Civil Service and in the U.S. military.
    And then there is the matter of what to do about, and to, the tens of millions of clinically insane trump diehards among the civilian population.
    Trump today endorsed the QAnon fascist filth running for the House from a Confederate state, thereby endorsing her QAnon platform that states plainly that all Democrats, in and out of government, are raping and killing trafficked children throughout America.
    I repeat: The President of the United States … the goddamned fucking President of the United States … is endorsing the view that the Democratic Party and its voters are raping and killing children en masse.
    But not a bullet fired yet by decent conservatives to save their country from this appalling fascist conservative movement evil.

  224. Trump is already talking to HIS loyalists in the American military about arresting both of these retired officers the day after the election, if not before, if he loses.
    If he loses, or cheats to win, these gentleman need to go underground and ready themselves to guide a savage Civil War for the future of America.
    https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/08/all-enemies-foreign-and-domestic-open-letter-gen-milley/167625/
    Joe Biden is going to have his hands full arresting and executing deep state trump traitors and loyalists throughout the Civil Service and in the U.S. military.
    And then there is the matter of what to do about, and to, the tens of millions of clinically insane trump diehards among the civilian population.
    Trump today endorsed the QAnon fascist filth running for the House from a Confederate state, thereby endorsing her QAnon platform that states plainly that all Democrats, in and out of government, are raping and killing trafficked children throughout America.
    I repeat: The President of the United States … the goddamned fucking President of the United States … is endorsing the view that the Democratic Party and its voters are raping and killing children en masse.
    But not a bullet fired yet by decent conservatives to save their country from this appalling fascist conservative movement evil.

  225. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?

  226. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?

  229. One of the authors of that letter JT linked above is also the author of Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife and is an expert in counterinsurgency.

  230. One of the authors of that letter JT linked above is also the author of Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife and is an expert in counterinsurgency.

  231. Hat tip to DKOS for the editorial authored by those officers.
    A primer on the mainstreaming of QAnon by the Republican Party right into the Oval Office.
    https://www.mediamatters.org/qanon-conspiracy-theory/ongoing-list-how-republicans-have-built-qanon-conspiracy-theory
    How hard can it be for intelligence services to identify this swamp-foxy, bin Laden-like, Kilroy was here individual or individuals claiming to be QAnon, and terminate them.
    They could BE Intelligence operatives themselves, either current or former, long-term conservative movement deep state elite insiders, maybe even the coastal variety, assigned to sabotaging all government led by anyone other than Trump.
    If they don’t exist, but their growing number of hoax-believers still carry out the QAnon mission … well, then, we’re going to need mass graves.

  232. Hat tip to DKOS for the editorial authored by those officers.
    A primer on the mainstreaming of QAnon by the Republican Party right into the Oval Office.
    https://www.mediamatters.org/qanon-conspiracy-theory/ongoing-list-how-republicans-have-built-qanon-conspiracy-theory
    How hard can it be for intelligence services to identify this swamp-foxy, bin Laden-like, Kilroy was here individual or individuals claiming to be QAnon, and terminate them.
    They could BE Intelligence operatives themselves, either current or former, long-term conservative movement deep state elite insiders, maybe even the coastal variety, assigned to sabotaging all government led by anyone other than Trump.
    If they don’t exist, but their growing number of hoax-believers still carry out the QAnon mission … well, then, we’re going to need mass graves.

  233. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    As we have all observed, standards which are applied to others are simply not applied to Trump. Or his inner circle of toadies. Which is part of the reason that young evangelicals seem to be turning against their churches’ leaders (as well as against Trump). Apparently they take the actual tenants of their faith seriously, unlike so many of their elders.

  234. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    As we have all observed, standards which are applied to others are simply not applied to Trump. Or his inner circle of toadies. Which is part of the reason that young evangelicals seem to be turning against their churches’ leaders (as well as against Trump). Apparently they take the actual tenants of their faith seriously, unlike so many of their elders.

  235. That is clinical delusional paranoia. It is literally insane.
    it’s the American conservative mythology. generations of people have been raised on this stuff, and more are falling into it every day.
    my MiL, Alabama to her core, believes C19 is being put into our drugs by the Chinese (who make all our drugs, BTW), in order to weaken Trump. she didn’t come up with that on her own.

  236. That is clinical delusional paranoia. It is literally insane.
    it’s the American conservative mythology. generations of people have been raised on this stuff, and more are falling into it every day.
    my MiL, Alabama to her core, believes C19 is being put into our drugs by the Chinese (who make all our drugs, BTW), in order to weaken Trump. she didn’t come up with that on her own.

  237. One of the authors of that letter JT linked above is also the author of Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife and is an expert in counterinsurgency.
    The same issue has this editorial explaining why we do not want the military intervening to evict Trump if he refuses to leave.
    For 240 years we have maintained a pretty strict policy of the military staying the hell out of domestic politics. It will be to our profound advantage to keep it that way.
    Trump’s term ends on January 20, 2021. Period. If there isn’t a clear winner at that point, we follow order of succession and somebody else is POTUS until things are sorted out.
    If Trump simply refuses to vacate the premises, we cut off his supply of hamberders and diet Cokes.
    If free lance militias and/or his border patrol or prison guard dudes decide to keep him in place by force, we’ll deal with that. There are other law enforcement agencies available, and many of them have guns, too. We’ll see how brave those dudes are.
    Military intervention should be absolutely last choice. IMO it shouldn’t even be on the table.

  238. One of the authors of that letter JT linked above is also the author of Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife and is an expert in counterinsurgency.
    The same issue has this editorial explaining why we do not want the military intervening to evict Trump if he refuses to leave.
    For 240 years we have maintained a pretty strict policy of the military staying the hell out of domestic politics. It will be to our profound advantage to keep it that way.
    Trump’s term ends on January 20, 2021. Period. If there isn’t a clear winner at that point, we follow order of succession and somebody else is POTUS until things are sorted out.
    If Trump simply refuses to vacate the premises, we cut off his supply of hamberders and diet Cokes.
    If free lance militias and/or his border patrol or prison guard dudes decide to keep him in place by force, we’ll deal with that. There are other law enforcement agencies available, and many of them have guns, too. We’ll see how brave those dudes are.
    Military intervention should be absolutely last choice. IMO it shouldn’t even be on the table.

  239. For 240 years we have maintained a pretty strict policy of the military staying the hell out of domestic politics. It will be to our profound advantage to keep it that way.
    Amen. What we need from the military is that they simply continue doing their regular jobs, working for the duly ele ted President. The only things Trump should see are 1) no Marine One on call to ferry him about, and 2) the officer with the nuclear football is gone. Beyond that, the rest of the military just ignoring him (and restraining any personnel who might be inclined not to) is sufficient. We’ve got plenty of civilians to deal with removing Trump.

  240. For 240 years we have maintained a pretty strict policy of the military staying the hell out of domestic politics. It will be to our profound advantage to keep it that way.
    Amen. What we need from the military is that they simply continue doing their regular jobs, working for the duly ele ted President. The only things Trump should see are 1) no Marine One on call to ferry him about, and 2) the officer with the nuclear football is gone. Beyond that, the rest of the military just ignoring him (and restraining any personnel who might be inclined not to) is sufficient. We’ve got plenty of civilians to deal with removing Trump.

  241. Amen.
    Seconded (or is it thirded?).
    Apparently they take the actual tenants of their faith seriously, unlike so many of their elders.
    Trying not to be too pedantic these days, but I’m guessing you mean “tenets”.

  242. Amen.
    Seconded (or is it thirded?).
    Apparently they take the actual tenants of their faith seriously, unlike so many of their elders.
    Trying not to be too pedantic these days, but I’m guessing you mean “tenets”.

  243. “Military intervention should be absolutely last choice.”
    NO ONE wants that.
    “IMO it shouldn’t even be on the table.”
    Trump and his faithful are in full control of what gets put on the table.
    He daily loads the table with awful scenarios that our imaginations only last week believed unspeakable, and every week for the last 180 weeks running has been a contemptible, disgraceful, and anti-American display with no let up in sight of the depths these scum are deliberately taking us to.
    What else will be required to be brought to the table the table to destroy him and them and save the country will solely be determined by him and could well be unprecedented.
    And you ain’t see nothing yet.
    Let’s hope we don’t see it.

  244. “Military intervention should be absolutely last choice.”
    NO ONE wants that.
    “IMO it shouldn’t even be on the table.”
    Trump and his faithful are in full control of what gets put on the table.
    He daily loads the table with awful scenarios that our imaginations only last week believed unspeakable, and every week for the last 180 weeks running has been a contemptible, disgraceful, and anti-American display with no let up in sight of the depths these scum are deliberately taking us to.
    What else will be required to be brought to the table the table to destroy him and them and save the country will solely be determined by him and could well be unprecedented.
    And you ain’t see nothing yet.
    Let’s hope we don’t see it.

  245. Trying not to be too pedantic these days
    particularly since my assay/essay boo-boo as noted by Janie!

  246. Trying not to be too pedantic these days
    particularly since my assay/essay boo-boo as noted by Janie!

  247. Trying not to be too pedantic these days, but I’m guessing you mean “tenets”.
    Autocorrect is a snare and a delusion.
    And it apparently didn’t even notice the missing c in “ele ted”. Sad!

  248. Trying not to be too pedantic these days, but I’m guessing you mean “tenets”.
    Autocorrect is a snare and a delusion.
    And it apparently didn’t even notice the missing c in “ele ted”. Sad!

  249. Trump and his faithful are in full control of what gets put on the table.
    No, they’re not.
    Either he clearly wins, clearly loses, or it’s a jump ball.
    If he wins, he wins. If he loses, he’s out. If it’s a jump ball, he’s out until it’s clear who won.
    He can say any damned thing he likes. If nobody listens, it doesn’t matter.

  250. Trump and his faithful are in full control of what gets put on the table.
    No, they’re not.
    Either he clearly wins, clearly loses, or it’s a jump ball.
    If he wins, he wins. If he loses, he’s out. If it’s a jump ball, he’s out until it’s clear who won.
    He can say any damned thing he likes. If nobody listens, it doesn’t matter.

  251. If he wins, he wins. If he loses, he’s out. If it’s a jump ball, he’s out until it’s clear who won.
    It’s the one thing that might keep Trump from extraordinary actions to contest the results. If it isn’t clear by Jan 20 who won, then Trump is out (at least temporarily) and Pelosi becomes President.** Oh, the horror! Especially for Trump, who freaks out over strong women.
    ** In that event, what then happens when the Electoral College is sorted out? Does Pelosi lose the office? Or is it the case that, once she’s in, she’s it for the duration of the term? Any Constitutional lawyers, please weigh in.

  252. If he wins, he wins. If he loses, he’s out. If it’s a jump ball, he’s out until it’s clear who won.
    It’s the one thing that might keep Trump from extraordinary actions to contest the results. If it isn’t clear by Jan 20 who won, then Trump is out (at least temporarily) and Pelosi becomes President.** Oh, the horror! Especially for Trump, who freaks out over strong women.
    ** In that event, what then happens when the Electoral College is sorted out? Does Pelosi lose the office? Or is it the case that, once she’s in, she’s it for the duration of the term? Any Constitutional lawyers, please weigh in.

  253. Autocorrect is a snare and a delusion.
    Autocorrect: trickster god of the technology pantheon. Open thread, right?
    A guy gets an e-mail from his next-door neighbor: “Bob, I’ve been cheating on you with your wife for years. I’ve been feeling so guilty, I have to admit it.” The guy takes out his revolver, goes down the hall, and shoots his wife dead. Before heading for the neighbor’s, he checks his e-mail again: “Wifi, Bob, not wife. Damned autocorrect…”
    The earliest variant I know of was The Angelic Angleworm by Fred Brown in 1943. Heaven’s Linotype that records everything starts dropping an occasional “e” into the text early. So when the main character pulls an angleworm out of the bait bucket while fishing, he gets an angelworm instead, complete with little wings and halo. Things are eventually straightened out.
    My Mac is set up to flag things it thinks are misspelled, but is not allowed to change them.

  254. Autocorrect is a snare and a delusion.
    Autocorrect: trickster god of the technology pantheon. Open thread, right?
    A guy gets an e-mail from his next-door neighbor: “Bob, I’ve been cheating on you with your wife for years. I’ve been feeling so guilty, I have to admit it.” The guy takes out his revolver, goes down the hall, and shoots his wife dead. Before heading for the neighbor’s, he checks his e-mail again: “Wifi, Bob, not wife. Damned autocorrect…”
    The earliest variant I know of was The Angelic Angleworm by Fred Brown in 1943. Heaven’s Linotype that records everything starts dropping an occasional “e” into the text early. So when the main character pulls an angleworm out of the bait bucket while fishing, he gets an angelworm instead, complete with little wings and halo. Things are eventually straightened out.
    My Mac is set up to flag things it thinks are misspelled, but is not allowed to change them.

  255. Military intervention should be absolutely last choice.
    Highly unlikely. The greater probability is Bush v Gore on steroids and pull it out of your originalist ass by a partisan hack Supreme Court that continues the mockery of “rule by law” GOP jurisprudence.
    Plan accordingly. Vote straight party Dem. no matter how bad that down ballot candidate is. Run the GOP off the face of the political earth.
    Vote early. Work to get others to do the same.

  256. Military intervention should be absolutely last choice.
    Highly unlikely. The greater probability is Bush v Gore on steroids and pull it out of your originalist ass by a partisan hack Supreme Court that continues the mockery of “rule by law” GOP jurisprudence.
    Plan accordingly. Vote straight party Dem. no matter how bad that down ballot candidate is. Run the GOP off the face of the political earth.
    Vote early. Work to get others to do the same.

  259. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    a facspist.

  260. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    a facspist.

  263. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    Isn’t it sufficient to say he’s just another mob lawyer defending his capo? (Although I admit to a temptation to outrage them both and instead say he’s a gang lawyer defending el hefe.)

  264. Not that I expect any sense to be made, but if Biden is a Papist, what does that make William Barr?
    Isn’t it sufficient to say he’s just another mob lawyer defending his capo? (Although I admit to a temptation to outrage them both and instead say he’s a gang lawyer defending el hefe.)

  265. Isn’t it sufficient to say he’s just another mob lawyer defending his capo?
    No, he’s more dangerous than that. He’s an accomplished bureaucrat with very little respect for the law or democracy.
    He’s also a thug who sucks up to bigger thugs, but the accomplished bureaucrat bit is what makes him really damaging.

  266. Isn’t it sufficient to say he’s just another mob lawyer defending his capo?
    No, he’s more dangerous than that. He’s an accomplished bureaucrat with very little respect for the law or democracy.
    He’s also a thug who sucks up to bigger thugs, but the accomplished bureaucrat bit is what makes him really damaging.

  269. Another day, another corrupt fascist outrage on the groaning table:
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/12/1968839/-Postal-Union-President-Sorting-machines-being-taken-from-post-offices-Sabotage-continues
    No overtime for postal workers, and now remove time-saving technology.
    By October, the ONLY American getting his mail at all will be McKinney.
    Americans who get their medicines thru the mail are reporting slowdowns as well.
    NOTHING is off the table.
    NOTHING!

  270. Another day, another corrupt fascist outrage on the groaning table:
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/12/1968839/-Postal-Union-President-Sorting-machines-being-taken-from-post-offices-Sabotage-continues
    No overtime for postal workers, and now remove time-saving technology.
    By October, the ONLY American getting his mail at all will be McKinney.
    Americans who get their medicines thru the mail are reporting slowdowns as well.
    NOTHING is off the table.
    NOTHING!

  273. The woman who single-handedly caused the tyrant to suspend the First Amendment and ban Tik-Tok, just got her own show on Netflix.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/tiktok-star-who-gained-viral-fame-trump-lip-syncs-gets-n1236561
    Expect First Amendment attacks by the FCC’s conservative movement operatives, ordered directly from the White House subhumans, on Netflix by the beginning of next week.
    Postal workers will be ordered to “lose” those red envelopes.
    By September, the sorting tables themselves will be removed from post offices.
    A moratorium on putting gas in the postal office’s delivery truck fleet, for “budgetary reasons”, will also be ordered on October 1 and many of the trucks will be taken out of operation for “unspecified” maintenance issues.
    THEY have a Postmaster General directing the stealing of a Presidential election.
    It’s only fair that we have a few retired military Generals planning to execute them.
    I’m under no illusion however, that most of the far right wing-infiltrated U.S. military will not behave in the fascist Republican Party’s favor when the crunch occurs.
    Watch events orchestrated by conservative movement filth in Belarus, Brazil, Hungary, and Russia for clues to Trump’s actions the rest of this year.
    Also monitor QAnon pronouncements for unfolding events.
    They are now the White House’s Press Office, not that blonde crypto-Christian piece of dog shit flashing her overbite thru which she lies like one of Falwell’s stable of whores.
    Trump especially appreciates China’s crackdown on Hong Kong and the Uighurs as possible models for what’s coming.
    Expect howling silence from our conservative friends as all of this comes down.
    Meanwhile, try to remain or at least appear sane. Go about your normal daily business.
    I’ve got the crazy covered.
    Well, not all of it:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinese-officials-say-chicken-wings-imported-from-brazil-tested-positive-for-covid-19/ar-BB17UrzQ?ocid=uxbndlbing
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-gave-youtube-ad-money-to-chinese-state-media-2020-8
    We’re gonna need a bigger table.
    We don’t know who these creatures are:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5t0jRE2XEU

  274. The woman who single-handedly caused the tyrant to suspend the First Amendment and ban Tik-Tok, just got her own show on Netflix.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/tiktok-star-who-gained-viral-fame-trump-lip-syncs-gets-n1236561
    Expect First Amendment attacks by the FCC’s conservative movement operatives, ordered directly from the White House subhumans, on Netflix by the beginning of next week.
    Postal workers will be ordered to “lose” those red envelopes.
    By September, the sorting tables themselves will be removed from post offices.
    A moratorium on putting gas in the postal office’s delivery truck fleet, for “budgetary reasons”, will also be ordered on October 1 and many of the trucks will be taken out of operation for “unspecified” maintenance issues.
    THEY have a Postmaster General directing the stealing of a Presidential election.
    It’s only fair that we have a few retired military Generals planning to execute them.
    I’m under no illusion however, that most of the far right wing-infiltrated U.S. military will not behave in the fascist Republican Party’s favor when the crunch occurs.
    Watch events orchestrated by conservative movement filth in Belarus, Brazil, Hungary, and Russia for clues to Trump’s actions the rest of this year.
    Also monitor QAnon pronouncements for unfolding events.
    They are now the White House’s Press Office, not that blonde crypto-Christian piece of dog shit flashing her overbite thru which she lies like one of Falwell’s stable of whores.
    Trump especially appreciates China’s crackdown on Hong Kong and the Uighurs as possible models for what’s coming.
    Expect howling silence from our conservative friends as all of this comes down.
    Meanwhile, try to remain or at least appear sane. Go about your normal daily business.
    I’ve got the crazy covered.
    Well, not all of it:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinese-officials-say-chicken-wings-imported-from-brazil-tested-positive-for-covid-19/ar-BB17UrzQ?ocid=uxbndlbing
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-gave-youtube-ad-money-to-chinese-state-media-2020-8
    We’re gonna need a bigger table.
    We don’t know who these creatures are:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5t0jRE2XEU

  275. Battleship Potemkin, a stylised account of the mutiny, is one of the great silent films. The scene on the Odessa Steps, which didn’t actually happen, ought to be a lesson to the thuggish autocrats responsible for assaulting protestors in Tiananmen Square and, less murderously, in Lafayette Square.
    Incidentally, Potemkin should be pronounced ‘Potyomkin’. A stressed ‘e’ in Russian is pronounced ‘yo’, cf ‘Khrushchev’ or ‘Gorbachev’.

  276. Battleship Potemkin, a stylised account of the mutiny, is one of the great silent films. The scene on the Odessa Steps, which didn’t actually happen, ought to be a lesson to the thuggish autocrats responsible for assaulting protestors in Tiananmen Square and, less murderously, in Lafayette Square.
    Incidentally, Potemkin should be pronounced ‘Potyomkin’. A stressed ‘e’ in Russian is pronounced ‘yo’, cf ‘Khrushchev’ or ‘Gorbachev’.

  285. Trump plans an executive order putting the lead back in paint and gasoline to try and get America’s IQ below his, thus enlarging his voter base.
    Also mercury back in the water supply, the better to shampoo with under those old fangled high-flow shower heads.
    The flushes in his new jet propulsion toilets will be so explosive that in public bathrooms you’ll be splashed in the face with the Covid-19 laced feces left unflushed by conservative movement super-spreaders.

  286. Trump plans an executive order putting the lead back in paint and gasoline to try and get America’s IQ below his, thus enlarging his voter base.
    Also mercury back in the water supply, the better to shampoo with under those old fangled high-flow shower heads.
    The flushes in his new jet propulsion toilets will be so explosive that in public bathrooms you’ll be splashed in the face with the Covid-19 laced feces left unflushed by conservative movement super-spreaders.

  287. Americans who get their medicines thru the mail are reporting slowdowns as well.
    Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters? You know, all those old white folks in retirement communities who get their drug thru the mail. Their incompetence is perhaps the strongest weapon against them.

  288. Americans who get their medicines thru the mail are reporting slowdowns as well.
    Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters? You know, all those old white folks in retirement communities who get their drug thru the mail. Their incompetence is perhaps the strongest weapon against them.

  289. “Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters?”
    Hitler. Stalin. The Tonton Macoute?
    Don Rickles?
    Besides, they won’t blame Trump governance.
    They will blame gummit.
    Keep yer cotton-pickin socialist gummint postal hands off my Medicare Part D drug deliveries!
    I ordered bleach, Hydrochloriazide, and colloidal silver from Alex Jones and the government Post Office is confiscating it! Throwing it in the dumpsters out back of the Post Office! There’s footage that shows it. And where the hell are my dick enlargement pills? They want us to die of the Chinese virus, which is a hoax. Die, alone, with only our tiny penises to keep us company!
    HIP hip hooray and calloo callay! Trump personally manufactured a Covid-19 vaccine!
    But vaccines are a government liberal conspiracy to stunt our growth while liberals order anchovies on their pizzas as they rape trafficked immigrant children, who ought to stay in their own countries and be raped by American servicemen collecting the wages of war, the natural God-given exceptional order of things.
    Guns.
    Ammo.
    Order them thru the mail.

  290. “Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters?”
    Hitler. Stalin. The Tonton Macoute?
    Don Rickles?
    Besides, they won’t blame Trump governance.
    They will blame gummit.
    Keep yer cotton-pickin socialist gummint postal hands off my Medicare Part D drug deliveries!
    I ordered bleach, Hydrochloriazide, and colloidal silver from Alex Jones and the government Post Office is confiscating it! Throwing it in the dumpsters out back of the Post Office! There’s footage that shows it. And where the hell are my dick enlargement pills? They want us to die of the Chinese virus, which is a hoax. Die, alone, with only our tiny penises to keep us company!
    HIP hip hooray and calloo callay! Trump personally manufactured a Covid-19 vaccine!
    But vaccines are a government liberal conspiracy to stunt our growth while liberals order anchovies on their pizzas as they rape trafficked immigrant children, who ought to stay in their own countries and be raped by American servicemen collecting the wages of war, the natural God-given exceptional order of things.
    Guns.
    Ammo.
    Order them thru the mail.

  293. The White House and the NRA are threatening all gun stores and gun manufacturers in the United States to deny gun and ammo sales to anyone who cannot produce a republican voter registration card or at least an autographed photo of Rand Paul f$cking a chicken, for the libertarians.
    The gun stores and manufacturers figure they’ll only lose 2.2% of their business.

  294. The White House and the NRA are threatening all gun stores and gun manufacturers in the United States to deny gun and ammo sales to anyone who cannot produce a republican voter registration card or at least an autographed photo of Rand Paul f$cking a chicken, for the libertarians.
    The gun stores and manufacturers figure they’ll only lose 2.2% of their business.

  295. Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters? You know, all those old white folks in retirement communities who get their drug thru the mail. Their incompetence is perhaps the strongest weapon against them.
    Anecdotes are not data. My wife and I — old white folks, although not in a retirement community — are seeing no change in the time for drug deliveries to Colorado from Kaiser’s shipping point in Southern California.
    I assume that DeJoy is aiming his actions at disrupting vote-by-mail for Democrats in the swing states that Trump won last time. Places where voters still have to request an absentee ballot even if they don’t have to give an excuse now, which largely lack drop boxes, so three trips through the mail are required. If that’s the intent, there should be a clear pattern of yanking sorting equipment from inner city post offices in the extended Rust Belt.

  296. Who but a Trump administration hack would deliberately take action which would be guaranteed to offend their own supporters? You know, all those old white folks in retirement communities who get their drug thru the mail. Their incompetence is perhaps the strongest weapon against them.
    Anecdotes are not data. My wife and I — old white folks, although not in a retirement community — are seeing no change in the time for drug deliveries to Colorado from Kaiser’s shipping point in Southern California.
    I assume that DeJoy is aiming his actions at disrupting vote-by-mail for Democrats in the swing states that Trump won last time. Places where voters still have to request an absentee ballot even if they don’t have to give an excuse now, which largely lack drop boxes, so three trips through the mail are required. If that’s the intent, there should be a clear pattern of yanking sorting equipment from inner city post offices in the extended Rust Belt.

  297. I fear my imagination is failing. While slashing overtime hours to cut costs is bull, it’s at least an excuse related to cost cutting. But I’m failing to come up with an excuse which would cover removing automatic sorting machines. It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….

  298. I fear my imagination is failing. While slashing overtime hours to cut costs is bull, it’s at least an excuse related to cost cutting. But I’m failing to come up with an excuse which would cover removing automatic sorting machines. It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….

  299. Hartmut, schools:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/desantis-school-reopening-killing-osama-bin-laden
    He’s right.
    But which children get to be bin Laden? Or will it be their parents or grandparents with the kidney problems.
    Lou Holtz: “We stormed Normandy!” Play Ball!”
    I believe German machine gun nests above Normandy Beach took out the entire front lines of the Notre Dame and University South Carolina football teams before they could hit the surf leaving their landing crafts.
    The quarterbacks stepped into the pocket and were blown to bloody smithereens by landmines.
    Holtz: Vichy France.

  300. Hartmut, schools:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/desantis-school-reopening-killing-osama-bin-laden
    He’s right.
    But which children get to be bin Laden? Or will it be their parents or grandparents with the kidney problems.
    Lou Holtz: “We stormed Normandy!” Play Ball!”
    I believe German machine gun nests above Normandy Beach took out the entire front lines of the Notre Dame and University South Carolina football teams before they could hit the surf leaving their landing crafts.
    The quarterbacks stepped into the pocket and were blown to bloody smithereens by landmines.
    Holtz: Vichy France.

  301. “Anecdotes are not data.”
    They are in elections.
    Us awaiting clear patterns to appear is what they are counting on.
    Flood the zone with sh*t, and then wait for we liberals to await clear patterns of sh8ttiness.
    “It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….”
    Kushner has a plan to lease them back to the Post Office after Trump wins at a tidy monthly profit.

  302. “Anecdotes are not data.”
    They are in elections.
    Us awaiting clear patterns to appear is what they are counting on.
    Flood the zone with sh*t, and then wait for we liberals to await clear patterns of sh8ttiness.
    “It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….”
    Kushner has a plan to lease them back to the Post Office after Trump wins at a tidy monthly profit.

  303. It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….
    Let’s see… process large collections of envelopes at high speed, pattern recognition on hand-written stuff, sort them into a number of output categories. Over at my county recorder’s office there are a pair of machines that do exactly that with returned ballots. I understand the envelope-handling and image scanning machinery is the hardest part of that.
    Distribution of ballots by mail is happening in the West regardless, even if most are returned through drop boxes. There’s a market for machines to verify signatures and sort envelopes. Could be a lot of demand for refurbished machines with new software.

  304. It’s not like you could sell them used to someone….
    Let’s see… process large collections of envelopes at high speed, pattern recognition on hand-written stuff, sort them into a number of output categories. Over at my county recorder’s office there are a pair of machines that do exactly that with returned ballots. I understand the envelope-handling and image scanning machinery is the hardest part of that.
    Distribution of ballots by mail is happening in the West regardless, even if most are returned through drop boxes. There’s a market for machines to verify signatures and sort envelopes. Could be a lot of demand for refurbished machines with new software.

  305. Over at my county recorder’s office there are a pair of machines that do exactly that with returned ballots. I understand the envelope-handling and image scanning machinery is the hardest part of that.
    Fair enough. But does anybody think the Postmaster General is selling them to any place that processes Absentee Ballots?

  306. Over at my county recorder’s office there are a pair of machines that do exactly that with returned ballots. I understand the envelope-handling and image scanning machinery is the hardest part of that.
    Fair enough. But does anybody think the Postmaster General is selling them to any place that processes Absentee Ballots?

  307. But does anybody think the Postmaster General is selling them to any place that processes Absentee Ballots?
    I think that after November, he’ll sell them to anyone. The gambit — assuming it’s a gambit — will either succeed or fail by then. With my conspiracy theorist hat on, I point out that if the USPS is dismantled and distributing ballots “by mail” means paying UPS or FedEx rates for local delivery, there won’t be any vote-by-mail ballots to process.

  308. But does anybody think the Postmaster General is selling them to any place that processes Absentee Ballots?
    I think that after November, he’ll sell them to anyone. The gambit — assuming it’s a gambit — will either succeed or fail by then. With my conspiracy theorist hat on, I point out that if the USPS is dismantled and distributing ballots “by mail” means paying UPS or FedEx rates for local delivery, there won’t be any vote-by-mail ballots to process.

  313. Four fires burning up in the mountains here, the biggest up to 75,000 acres and still growing. Today’s weather in my suburb was “patchy smoke”; tomorrow’s is “areas of smoke”. 4:35 and the sun is orange. Another hour and it will be a red ball you can look at with the naked eye. My daughter lives farther north and says they have pyrocumulus clouds and a bit of ash in the air. I-70 is closed by one of the fires. When they closed the interstate, Google Maps routed thousands of vehicles onto 4×4 mountain dirt roads before the sheriffs got those closed.

  314. Four fires burning up in the mountains here, the biggest up to 75,000 acres and still growing. Today’s weather in my suburb was “patchy smoke”; tomorrow’s is “areas of smoke”. 4:35 and the sun is orange. Another hour and it will be a red ball you can look at with the naked eye. My daughter lives farther north and says they have pyrocumulus clouds and a bit of ash in the air. I-70 is closed by one of the fires. When they closed the interstate, Google Maps routed thousands of vehicles onto 4×4 mountain dirt roads before the sheriffs got those closed.

  317. Pushing, if not setting, temperature records here. But so far, the vegetation fires have been small and contained quickly. That won’t last, but every day we manage to get thru this time of the year is a plus.

  318. Pushing, if not setting, temperature records here. But so far, the vegetation fires have been small and contained quickly. That won’t last, but every day we manage to get thru this time of the year is a plus.

  319. It seems the Postal Service has warned 46 states that they may not be able to deliver ballots in a timely manner this fall.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/usps-states-delayed-mail-in-ballots/2020/08/14/64bf3c3c-dcc7-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html **
    Interestingly, one of the states being warned is Florida. It would be karmic of one of the ballots which doesn’t get delivered in time is Trump’s.
    ** In fairness, it should be pounted out that this happened before the current Postmaster General took office. He’s made things worse, but the effort was under weigh before he arrived.

  320. It seems the Postal Service has warned 46 states that they may not be able to deliver ballots in a timely manner this fall.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/usps-states-delayed-mail-in-ballots/2020/08/14/64bf3c3c-dcc7-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html **
    Interestingly, one of the states being warned is Florida. It would be karmic of one of the ballots which doesn’t get delivered in time is Trump’s.
    ** In fairness, it should be pounted out that this happened before the current Postmaster General took office. He’s made things worse, but the effort was under weigh before he arrived.

  321. To wj’s 8:03…
    I speak only to the western VBM states, but none are worse than “narrow warning” and that warning is almost certainly relative to rural areas that vote overwhelmingly Republican. In the western states likely to be important this year, messing with the mail is much more likely to hurt Gardner, McSally, and Trump in Arizona than to hurt any of the Democrats.
    I often claim that the national Republicans have failed to realize that (a) they are losing the West and (b) that’s important. Of course, I often claim that the national Democrats have failed to realize that (a) they are winning the West more generally than California and (b) that’s important.

  322. To wj’s 8:03…
    I speak only to the western VBM states, but none are worse than “narrow warning” and that warning is almost certainly relative to rural areas that vote overwhelmingly Republican. In the western states likely to be important this year, messing with the mail is much more likely to hurt Gardner, McSally, and Trump in Arizona than to hurt any of the Democrats.
    I often claim that the national Republicans have failed to realize that (a) they are losing the West and (b) that’s important. Of course, I often claim that the national Democrats have failed to realize that (a) they are winning the West more generally than California and (b) that’s important.

  323. RIP Julian Bream, whose classical guitar playing was the only thing that persuaded my stuffy girls’ boarding school to allow guitar lessons. Here he is playing a Bach Prelude in D. Sorry about the weird distortion in the middle (about 1.55), nobody seems to know what it was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZNcul42Z4

  324. RIP Julian Bream, whose classical guitar playing was the only thing that persuaded my stuffy girls’ boarding school to allow guitar lessons. Here he is playing a Bach Prelude in D. Sorry about the weird distortion in the middle (about 1.55), nobody seems to know what it was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZNcul42Z4

  329. I often claim that the national Republicans have failed to realize that (a) they are losing the West and (b) that’s important.
    May it be so.
    Of course, I often claim that the national Democrats have failed to realize that (a) they are winning the West more generally than California and (b) that’s important.
    Thank you for calling it to our attention.
    RIP Julian Bream
    Thank you for this, and for the beautiful link.
    When words fail or are insufficient, music tells the story.

  330. I often claim that the national Republicans have failed to realize that (a) they are losing the West and (b) that’s important.
    May it be so.
    Of course, I often claim that the national Democrats have failed to realize that (a) they are winning the West more generally than California and (b) that’s important.
    Thank you for calling it to our attention.
    RIP Julian Bream
    Thank you for this, and for the beautiful link.
    When words fail or are insufficient, music tells the story.

  331. I’m so glad you liked it, russell. You have shared so many wonderful musical experiences, to our (all our) great benefit.

  332. I’m so glad you liked it, russell. You have shared so many wonderful musical experiences, to our (all our) great benefit.

  333. Ran across this post on LinkedIn:

    Dear Jeff Bezos,
    Your personal wealth has grown exponentially during this crisis.
    Your company is renowned for being able to deliver anywhere in the US, and also for paying ZERO taxes — which is in large part why you are now the world’s wealthiest man.
    Amazon should volunteer to deliver all Americans’ #MailInBallots

    No idea whether there is the slightest truth to the statement about Amazon’s taxes. But consider Trump’s reaction if Bezos (who he already hates) was to volunteer Amazon for this, in the absence of USPS capability.

  334. Ran across this post on LinkedIn:

    Dear Jeff Bezos,
    Your personal wealth has grown exponentially during this crisis.
    Your company is renowned for being able to deliver anywhere in the US, and also for paying ZERO taxes — which is in large part why you are now the world’s wealthiest man.
    Amazon should volunteer to deliver all Americans’ #MailInBallots

    No idea whether there is the slightest truth to the statement about Amazon’s taxes. But consider Trump’s reaction if Bezos (who he already hates) was to volunteer Amazon for this, in the absence of USPS capability.

  335. I’m certain the conservative movement will be ready for that eventuality and has the myriad thickets of legal horseshit regarding postal law ready to go to tie that up in the courts for roughly 200 years.
    Enough time to have almost seven consecutive Thirty Years wars, as we cool our heels until Trump is done fucking with us.

  336. I’m certain the conservative movement will be ready for that eventuality and has the myriad thickets of legal horseshit regarding postal law ready to go to tie that up in the courts for roughly 200 years.
    Enough time to have almost seven consecutive Thirty Years wars, as we cool our heels until Trump is done fucking with us.

  337. Good. More of this.
    Trump has made the world as ungovernable, volatile, and explosive as possible.
    Ka-boom!

  338. Good. More of this.
    Trump has made the world as ungovernable, volatile, and explosive as possible.
    Ka-boom!

  341. The UN defeat can hardly be a surprise.
    Regardless of the issue, at this point, the only times the US will get international agreement on anything will be when a majority of the other parties already want it. And even then, if the Trump administration is pushing for it, they might decide to say no to something that they basically favor.

  342. The UN defeat can hardly be a surprise.
    Regardless of the issue, at this point, the only times the US will get international agreement on anything will be when a majority of the other parties already want it. And even then, if the Trump administration is pushing for it, they might decide to say no to something that they basically favor.

  347. An absolutely fascinating article on the convergence we have sometimes talked about between far left (in this case the Revolutionary Communist Party and their descendants) and the far or Brexit-supporting right, including the extraordinary fact that a mouthpiece of the old RCP, Spiked, has received funding from the Koch brothers. It’s almost entirely about the UK, but should be of interest anyway, I think. Anyone up for it should be sure to read to the bottom, despite weird spacing etc.
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/07/27/the-rcps-long-march-from-anti-imperialist-outsiders-to-the-doors-of-downing-street/

  348. An absolutely fascinating article on the convergence we have sometimes talked about between far left (in this case the Revolutionary Communist Party and their descendants) and the far or Brexit-supporting right, including the extraordinary fact that a mouthpiece of the old RCP, Spiked, has received funding from the Koch brothers. It’s almost entirely about the UK, but should be of interest anyway, I think. Anyone up for it should be sure to read to the bottom, despite weird spacing etc.
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/07/27/the-rcps-long-march-from-anti-imperialist-outsiders-to-the-doors-of-downing-street/

  349. That is an amazing article. GftNC.
    Potemkin village, indeed.
    We really don’t know who these conservative movement actors are, do we?
    Too bad the likes Joseph McCarthy, Ayn Rand, and Joseph Welch aren’t around any longer to expose the Soviet long-game roots of the entire malign western conservative movement.
    Oh, wait, they were Soviet plants as well, weren’t they, to divide and conquer America.
    What exactly was Koch senior doing canoodling with Stalin AND Hitler during the 1930s.
    For someone who has listened to conservative filth accuse Martin Luther King and every fucking mainstream liberal of communist infiltration all my life, this is so much fucking fun.
    So, how does Trump’s upcoming pardon of Snowden fit this picture?
    I’m ambivalent about Snowden. Like and don’t like.
    Looks like I’m going to have make up my mind soon.

  350. That is an amazing article. GftNC.
    Potemkin village, indeed.
    We really don’t know who these conservative movement actors are, do we?
    Too bad the likes Joseph McCarthy, Ayn Rand, and Joseph Welch aren’t around any longer to expose the Soviet long-game roots of the entire malign western conservative movement.
    Oh, wait, they were Soviet plants as well, weren’t they, to divide and conquer America.
    What exactly was Koch senior doing canoodling with Stalin AND Hitler during the 1930s.
    For someone who has listened to conservative filth accuse Martin Luther King and every fucking mainstream liberal of communist infiltration all my life, this is so much fucking fun.
    So, how does Trump’s upcoming pardon of Snowden fit this picture?
    I’m ambivalent about Snowden. Like and don’t like.
    Looks like I’m going to have make up my mind soon.

  353. Aren’t the Murdoch kids second generation imported refuse?
    Yup. And originally from Australia, too. Probably a fan of the “white Australia” policy, back in the day.

  354. Aren’t the Murdoch kids second generation imported refuse?
    Yup. And originally from Australia, too. Probably a fan of the “white Australia” policy, back in the day.

  357. Hey, maybe they will all follow his example. It might improve the quality of the gene pool going forward.
    At minimum, it might increase support for universal health care in a demographic where it is currently a bit thin.

  358. Hey, maybe they will all follow his example. It might improve the quality of the gene pool going forward.
    At minimum, it might increase support for universal health care in a demographic where it is currently a bit thin.

  361. What Trump can and will do
    He can try it on. He can probably count on support from some parts of government.
    But I don’t think people will put up with it. Some will be fine with it, some won’t really care unless it actually bites them on the @ss, but a lot of people won’t put up with it.
    If he really takes it to the mat, I figure Trump can count on about 30% of the population. I don’t think that’s enough to make crap like martial law etc. stick.
    Especially not Trump. A hell of a lot of people really, really, really dislike him and want him out.
    We’ll see.

  362. What Trump can and will do
    He can try it on. He can probably count on support from some parts of government.
    But I don’t think people will put up with it. Some will be fine with it, some won’t really care unless it actually bites them on the @ss, but a lot of people won’t put up with it.
    If he really takes it to the mat, I figure Trump can count on about 30% of the population. I don’t think that’s enough to make crap like martial law etc. stick.
    Especially not Trump. A hell of a lot of people really, really, really dislike him and want him out.
    We’ll see.

  363. I’ll also say that this is just another reason why we should have turned creeps like John Yoo over the Hague when we had the chance.
    They won’t stop until they’re made to stop.

  364. I’ll also say that this is just another reason why we should have turned creeps like John Yoo over the Hague when we had the chance.
    They won’t stop until they’re made to stop.

  365. we should have turned creeps like John Yoo over [to] the Hague
    It would still be a good idea. With no statute of limitations on war crimes, better late than never.
    In fact, it might be worthwhile (in a Biden administration’s copious free time) if we finally joined the ICC.Not my top priority for them, but definitely on the ToDo list.

  366. we should have turned creeps like John Yoo over [to] the Hague
    It would still be a good idea. With no statute of limitations on war crimes, better late than never.
    In fact, it might be worthwhile (in a Biden administration’s copious free time) if we finally joined the ICC.Not my top priority for them, but definitely on the ToDo list.

  369. In fact, it might be worthwhile (in a Biden administration’s copious free time) if we finally joined the ICC.Not my top priority for them, but definitely on the ToDo list.
    Priority list for me:
    1 Rejoin Paris Accord
    2 Ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (we are the sole nation state not to have done so).
    3 Join the ICC
    Number two would be guaranteed to send the parental rights home school crowd deep into apocalyptic ramblings and ammo stockpiling.

  370. In fact, it might be worthwhile (in a Biden administration’s copious free time) if we finally joined the ICC.Not my top priority for them, but definitely on the ToDo list.
    Priority list for me:
    1 Rejoin Paris Accord
    2 Ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (we are the sole nation state not to have done so).
    3 Join the ICC
    Number two would be guaranteed to send the parental rights home school crowd deep into apocalyptic ramblings and ammo stockpiling.

  371. I may be being too cynical, but FWIW I don’t think James Murdoch quit over a matter of principle. I think he is playing dynastic chess, but even if I’m right I’m not sure how successful it’s likely to be.
    Making a wishlist for a (DV) Biden administration is an excellent idea. I may submit mine tomorrow, if it’s still a thing. Good night all.

  372. I may be being too cynical, but FWIW I don’t think James Murdoch quit over a matter of principle. I think he is playing dynastic chess, but even if I’m right I’m not sure how successful it’s likely to be.
    Making a wishlist for a (DV) Biden administration is an excellent idea. I may submit mine tomorrow, if it’s still a thing. Good night all.

  377. See, massive ignorance of history can lead one to correctness. However accidentally. In this case, the Fox news guy may well be right — Trump’s coming triumph may be much like the Spanish Armada’s success. I believe the phrase is “down in flames.”
    I’ve picked my election night indicator for an absolute landslide. (Not just a Biden win, but a landslide.) It’s 1 AM Eastern time, which is about the time I’ll be getting home from working the polls here in California, and the networks are saying Alabama is still in the undecided column. Here’s hoping.

  378. See, massive ignorance of history can lead one to correctness. However accidentally. In this case, the Fox news guy may well be right — Trump’s coming triumph may be much like the Spanish Armada’s success. I believe the phrase is “down in flames.”
    I’ve picked my election night indicator for an absolute landslide. (Not just a Biden win, but a landslide.) It’s 1 AM Eastern time, which is about the time I’ll be getting home from working the polls here in California, and the networks are saying Alabama is still in the undecided column. Here’s hoping.

  383. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/irelands-tourism-chief-resigns-after-he-takes-a-trip-to-italy-despite-the-government-advising-people-to-vacation-at-home-2020-08-15?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    We may have to invert .. turn it upside down … Murray and Herrnstein’s Bell Curve, just as we needs do with all bullshit conservative movement statistical curves, like the Laffer Curve, to get a more accurate take on how truly bumf*ck stupid we white people are, generally speaking, compared to the more enlightened races.
    I wonder if he took his wife AND his girlfriend AND his boyfriend to the Italian beaches as well, thinking, gosh, who’s gonna know.

  384. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/irelands-tourism-chief-resigns-after-he-takes-a-trip-to-italy-despite-the-government-advising-people-to-vacation-at-home-2020-08-15?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    We may have to invert .. turn it upside down … Murray and Herrnstein’s Bell Curve, just as we needs do with all bullshit conservative movement statistical curves, like the Laffer Curve, to get a more accurate take on how truly bumf*ck stupid we white people are, generally speaking, compared to the more enlightened races.
    I wonder if he took his wife AND his girlfriend AND his boyfriend to the Italian beaches as well, thinking, gosh, who’s gonna know.

  385. it supports the ham sandwich theory
    ham sandwich or shit sandwich, take your pick.
    there’s no accounting for taste.

  386. it supports the ham sandwich theory
    ham sandwich or shit sandwich, take your pick.
    there’s no accounting for taste.

  387. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    From Marty’s CNN link. Dear God, rarely has it ever been so perfectly illustrated that those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

  388. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    From Marty’s CNN link. Dear God, rarely has it ever been so perfectly illustrated that those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

  389. It’s been a week since Iowa was devastated by a hurricane. The governor has been begging the White House for a disaster declaration. This, after all, is what FEMA is for. Yet for days . . . silence
    Indeed, it was looking like Trump had decided Iowa was a blue state, and so should get bupkis. But just minutes ago, he finally tweeted a disaster declaratiob. (Bureaucracy note: does that even count? Or will Iowa discover that they got the image of help, but not the legally required forms to get the reality?)

  390. It’s been a week since Iowa was devastated by a hurricane. The governor has been begging the White House for a disaster declaration. This, after all, is what FEMA is for. Yet for days . . . silence
    Indeed, it was looking like Trump had decided Iowa was a blue state, and so should get bupkis. But just minutes ago, he finally tweeted a disaster declaratiob. (Bureaucracy note: does that even count? Or will Iowa discover that they got the image of help, but not the legally required forms to get the reality?)

  391. There are not quite three months left between now and the election. It’s entirely possible that Trump could win.
    If that scares the crap out of you, let that motivate you.
    Support for Trump puzzles the hell out of me, but the folks I find hardest to understand and accept are the people who think he’s a flaming asshole and a crap POTUS, but who can’t motivate themselves to do anything about it.
    If you think the last four years have been a train wreck, another four years of Trump would only be worse.
    The man is a pathological menace. The nation is profoundly diminished by his presence in office.

  392. There are not quite three months left between now and the election. It’s entirely possible that Trump could win.
    If that scares the crap out of you, let that motivate you.
    Support for Trump puzzles the hell out of me, but the folks I find hardest to understand and accept are the people who think he’s a flaming asshole and a crap POTUS, but who can’t motivate themselves to do anything about it.
    If you think the last four years have been a train wreck, another four years of Trump would only be worse.
    The man is a pathological menace. The nation is profoundly diminished by his presence in office.

  393. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    but all those national polls show Biden cruising to a double-digit landslide !

  394. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    but all those national polls show Biden cruising to a double-digit landslide !

  395. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    Candidates are tied in states where candidates are tied! News at eleven!

  396. Across 15 battleground states, the survey finds Biden has the backing of 49% of registered voters, while Trump lands at 48%.
    Candidates are tied in states where candidates are tied! News at eleven!

  397. Yes, that’s one way of looking at it. But I took it to signify that where opinion was equally divided before the Trump presidency, opinion is still equally divided despite the incontrovertible evidence of its incompetence, corruption and general disastrousness. A development in a way, although not of the sort which makes much sense.

  398. Yes, that’s one way of looking at it. But I took it to signify that where opinion was equally divided before the Trump presidency, opinion is still equally divided despite the incontrovertible evidence of its incompetence, corruption and general disastrousness. A development in a way, although not of the sort which makes much sense.

  401. makes me scratch my head, too.
    I’m not living in the country I thought I was. Not really a surprise at this point, but still disappointing.
    I’ll change my mind if we see the popular vote for Biden/Harris top 65%. Right? That accounts for Trump’s supposed hard-core base, plus a little cushion for the tax cut and deregulation crowd.
    Otherwise I’m assuming I’m a stranger in a strange land.
    I don’t mean to be negative, the outcome this year is extremely important and I don’t want to discourage anyone from engaging with whatever resources they can possibly bring to bear.
    But I’m seriously finding it hard to get my head around spending the rest of my life in a country where something like Donald J is even feasible. No matter who wins.
    I’m too dug in to go anywhere else, and I really don’t want to go anywhere else. I’m American. I just don’t like being American right now. No matter who wins.
    This country feels deeply and profoundly toxic to me, and I have no idea what to do about it. I just try to work around it to the best of my ability.
    We are who we are. No matter who wins.

  402. makes me scratch my head, too.
    I’m not living in the country I thought I was. Not really a surprise at this point, but still disappointing.
    I’ll change my mind if we see the popular vote for Biden/Harris top 65%. Right? That accounts for Trump’s supposed hard-core base, plus a little cushion for the tax cut and deregulation crowd.
    Otherwise I’m assuming I’m a stranger in a strange land.
    I don’t mean to be negative, the outcome this year is extremely important and I don’t want to discourage anyone from engaging with whatever resources they can possibly bring to bear.
    But I’m seriously finding it hard to get my head around spending the rest of my life in a country where something like Donald J is even feasible. No matter who wins.
    I’m too dug in to go anywhere else, and I really don’t want to go anywhere else. I’m American. I just don’t like being American right now. No matter who wins.
    This country feels deeply and profoundly toxic to me, and I have no idea what to do about it. I just try to work around it to the best of my ability.
    We are who we are. No matter who wins.

  403. I’m not surprised Trump would try to include an NDA in a government contract. a) he loves them, and b) he thinks he gets to run the executive branch the way he runs his own company.
    What’s surprising is that the contractor would believe, even for an instant, that it was valid in a Federal contract when it comes to Congress.

  404. I’m not surprised Trump would try to include an NDA in a government contract. a) he loves them, and b) he thinks he gets to run the executive branch the way he runs his own company.
    What’s surprising is that the contractor would believe, even for an instant, that it was valid in a Federal contract when it comes to Congress.

  407. This country feels deeply and profoundly toxic to me, and I have no idea what to do about it.
    Yeah. F**k.

  408. This country feels deeply and profoundly toxic to me, and I have no idea what to do about it.
    Yeah. F**k.

  409. A development in a way, although not of the sort which makes much sense.
    the GOP is a cult.
    nearly anything is tolerated, if it helps the cult stay strong.

  410. A development in a way, although not of the sort which makes much sense.
    the GOP is a cult.
    nearly anything is tolerated, if it helps the cult stay strong.

  411. As good an explanation as any, for what still seems to me an inexplicable phenomenon.

  412. As good an explanation as any, for what still seems to me an inexplicable phenomenon.

  413. The Oleander is gorgeous this time of year:
    https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.html
    Ben Carson: The National Enquirer’s idea of an affirmative action neurosurgeon.
    The Siamese twins he separated were so unhappy with the job he did on them that they had another doctor sew them back together.
    Suitably for a murderous genocidal cult that worships the end days, the miracle ornamental shrub, Oleander, is from the dogbane family, Apocynaceae.
    Expect news soon of Trump subhuman filth overdosing on Oleander.
    Mark it down as yet more cold-blooded murder by the conservative movement death cult.
    My dog received his mail-in ballot the other day, but he was a Trump supporter, so I had him put down.
    All he ever produced was steaming piles of conservative dog sh*t during his sad rabid life.
    I wonder if advanced lung cancer among Medal of Freedom winners is God’s clever way of helping normal human beings save on bullets.

  414. The Oleander is gorgeous this time of year:
    https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.html
    Ben Carson: The National Enquirer’s idea of an affirmative action neurosurgeon.
    The Siamese twins he separated were so unhappy with the job he did on them that they had another doctor sew them back together.
    Suitably for a murderous genocidal cult that worships the end days, the miracle ornamental shrub, Oleander, is from the dogbane family, Apocynaceae.
    Expect news soon of Trump subhuman filth overdosing on Oleander.
    Mark it down as yet more cold-blooded murder by the conservative movement death cult.
    My dog received his mail-in ballot the other day, but he was a Trump supporter, so I had him put down.
    All he ever produced was steaming piles of conservative dog sh*t during his sad rabid life.
    I wonder if advanced lung cancer among Medal of Freedom winners is God’s clever way of helping normal human beings save on bullets.

  415. No need for much of the stuff to lethally overdose. A quarter of a milligram per kg bodyweight (admittedly tested only on cats).
    All parts of that plant are poisonous btw.
    And such lovely symptoms: nausea, diarrhea, hypoxemia (lowered blood oxygen) plus a lot of stuff with ‘cardiac’ in front of it.
    What’s next? Fresh extracts from Chironex fleckeri? Or the patriotic choice: Americium(III)bromide (we all need a good bromide these days and American is always better than the standard alternative (pot ash)). You don’t need that smoke detector in Jabbabonk’s America anyway.

  416. No need for much of the stuff to lethally overdose. A quarter of a milligram per kg bodyweight (admittedly tested only on cats).
    All parts of that plant are poisonous btw.
    And such lovely symptoms: nausea, diarrhea, hypoxemia (lowered blood oxygen) plus a lot of stuff with ‘cardiac’ in front of it.
    What’s next? Fresh extracts from Chironex fleckeri? Or the patriotic choice: Americium(III)bromide (we all need a good bromide these days and American is always better than the standard alternative (pot ash)). You don’t need that smoke detector in Jabbabonk’s America anyway.

  417. The terminal decline of the United States will not be solved by elections. The political rot and depravity will continue to eat away at the soul of the nation, spawning what anthropologists call crisis cults — movements led by demagogues that prey on an unbearable psychological and financial distress. These crisis cults, already well established among followers of the Christian Right and Donald Trump, peddle magical thinking and an infantilism that promises — in exchange for all autonomy — prosperity, a return to a mythical past, order and security. The dark yearnings among the white working class for vengeance and moral renewal through violence, the unchecked greed and corruption of the corporate oligarchs and billionaires who manage our failed democracy, which has already instituted wholesale government surveillance and revoked most civil liberties, are part of the twisted pathologies that infect all civilizations sputtering towards oblivion. I witnessed the deaths of other nations during the collapse of the communist regimes in Eastern Europe and later in the former Yugoslavia. I have smelled this stench before.
    This is from an article called America’s Death March I have just been sent by a very trusted source. It’s by Chris Hedges, of whom I hadn’t heard, but you all may have opinions on whether he is worth listening to or not. I haven’t read past this opening paragraph yet, but given our discussion I thought it might be of interest.
    https://scheerpost.com/2020/08/10/chris-hedges-americas-death-march/

  418. The terminal decline of the United States will not be solved by elections. The political rot and depravity will continue to eat away at the soul of the nation, spawning what anthropologists call crisis cults — movements led by demagogues that prey on an unbearable psychological and financial distress. These crisis cults, already well established among followers of the Christian Right and Donald Trump, peddle magical thinking and an infantilism that promises — in exchange for all autonomy — prosperity, a return to a mythical past, order and security. The dark yearnings among the white working class for vengeance and moral renewal through violence, the unchecked greed and corruption of the corporate oligarchs and billionaires who manage our failed democracy, which has already instituted wholesale government surveillance and revoked most civil liberties, are part of the twisted pathologies that infect all civilizations sputtering towards oblivion. I witnessed the deaths of other nations during the collapse of the communist regimes in Eastern Europe and later in the former Yugoslavia. I have smelled this stench before.
    This is from an article called America’s Death March I have just been sent by a very trusted source. It’s by Chris Hedges, of whom I hadn’t heard, but you all may have opinions on whether he is worth listening to or not. I haven’t read past this opening paragraph yet, but given our discussion I thought it might be of interest.
    https://scheerpost.com/2020/08/10/chris-hedges-americas-death-march/

  419. The experimental botanical extract, oleandrin, was promoted to Trump during an Oval Office meeting in July. It’s embraced by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow founder and CEO Mike Lindell, a big Trump backer, who recently took a financial stake in the company that develops the product.

    Making America great again, one crony at a time.

  420. The experimental botanical extract, oleandrin, was promoted to Trump during an Oval Office meeting in July. It’s embraced by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow founder and CEO Mike Lindell, a big Trump backer, who recently took a financial stake in the company that develops the product.

    Making America great again, one crony at a time.

  423. He hosts the Emmy-nominated program On Contact for the RT (formerly Russia Today) television network.
    Not a good sign.

  424. He hosts the Emmy-nominated program On Contact for the RT (formerly Russia Today) television network.
    Not a good sign.

  427. Cripes, chaps, don’t read unless you want to feel 100% worse than you already do! So sorry…

  428. Cripes, chaps, don’t read unless you want to feel 100% worse than you already do! So sorry…

  429. The Trump FDA has tested oleander on two cats and based on those absolutely sadistically conclusive results is moving directly to human trials using the immigrant kids ICE is raping and beating in our American concentration camps as guinea humans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7JOBVqcAsw
    Watch the video that follows as well that one as well.
    Crack addiction and card counting, which are considered prime resume qualifications for inducing American dupes to poison themselves:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbdj3SMzlM
    What’s a kiosk? Not many people know.

  430. The Trump FDA has tested oleander on two cats and based on those absolutely sadistically conclusive results is moving directly to human trials using the immigrant kids ICE is raping and beating in our American concentration camps as guinea humans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7JOBVqcAsw
    Watch the video that follows as well that one as well.
    Crack addiction and card counting, which are considered prime resume qualifications for inducing American dupes to poison themselves:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbdj3SMzlM
    What’s a kiosk? Not many people know.

  431. Hedges is a psychopath and a Presbyterian minister.
    Which is why he is a go to observer of the psychopathic, murderous, crypto-Christian conservative republican trump movement in the former United States of America.

  432. Hedges is a psychopath and a Presbyterian minister.
    Which is why he is a go to observer of the psychopathic, murderous, crypto-Christian conservative republican trump movement in the former United States of America.

  433. Well, in my opinion much of his description and analysis of the state of the current US is rather convincing. But I’d hate to think he is right about the possibilities or likely outcomes for the future. As my very trusted source warned, quoting one of my favourite lines from Dante:
    And I have told you this to make you grieve.

  434. Well, in my opinion much of his description and analysis of the state of the current US is rather convincing. But I’d hate to think he is right about the possibilities or likely outcomes for the future. As my very trusted source warned, quoting one of my favourite lines from Dante:
    And I have told you this to make you grieve.

  435. nearly anything is tolerated, if it helps the cult stay strong.
    That’s “help” as in reduce departures. “Help” as in convert unbelievers doesn’t really seem to be on the radar. (Perhaps because radar is a new, tech/sciencey, thing?) But not converting unbelievers, especially when their birth rates are higher than yours, is a formula for descent into irrelevance. All the walls in the world won’t stop that.

  436. nearly anything is tolerated, if it helps the cult stay strong.
    That’s “help” as in reduce departures. “Help” as in convert unbelievers doesn’t really seem to be on the radar. (Perhaps because radar is a new, tech/sciencey, thing?) But not converting unbelievers, especially when their birth rates are higher than yours, is a formula for descent into irrelevance. All the walls in the world won’t stop that.

  437. Well, in my opinion much of his description and analysis of the state of the current US is rather convincing.
    I’m not going to read it. I don’t need to be convinced that many of our citizens are not decent people, especially with regard to their ability to summon compassion for people they don’t personally know. I have never been in denial about whether “it” can happen here. We’re humans, and a lot of us can be deceived and manipulated by “the big lie.”
    And I have told you this to make you grieve.
    Most of the population is already busy grieving. I’m not interested in immersing myself in Putin’s RT propaganda machine to help me along – in fact, people need to ask themselves when they read that material what’s in it for Putin. Then they should respond accordingly.

  438. Well, in my opinion much of his description and analysis of the state of the current US is rather convincing.
    I’m not going to read it. I don’t need to be convinced that many of our citizens are not decent people, especially with regard to their ability to summon compassion for people they don’t personally know. I have never been in denial about whether “it” can happen here. We’re humans, and a lot of us can be deceived and manipulated by “the big lie.”
    And I have told you this to make you grieve.
    Most of the population is already busy grieving. I’m not interested in immersing myself in Putin’s RT propaganda machine to help me along – in fact, people need to ask themselves when they read that material what’s in it for Putin. Then they should respond accordingly.

  439. The Senate (i.e. Republican led) Intelligence Committee says

    President Trump’s 2016 campaign chairman posed a “grave counterintelligence threat” due to his interaction with people close to the Kremlin, according to a bipartisan Senate report released Tuesday that also found extensive contacts between key campaign advisers and officials affiliated with Moscow’s government and intelligence services.
    The Senate Intelligence Committee report states that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort worked with a Russian intelligence officer “on narratives that sought to undermine evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. election,” including the idea that Ukrainian election interference was of greater concern.

    https://washingtonpost.com/national-security/senate-intelligence-trump-russia-report/2020/08/18/62a7573e-e093-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html
    “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.

  440. The Senate (i.e. Republican led) Intelligence Committee says

    President Trump’s 2016 campaign chairman posed a “grave counterintelligence threat” due to his interaction with people close to the Kremlin, according to a bipartisan Senate report released Tuesday that also found extensive contacts between key campaign advisers and officials affiliated with Moscow’s government and intelligence services.
    The Senate Intelligence Committee report states that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort worked with a Russian intelligence officer “on narratives that sought to undermine evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. election,” including the idea that Ukrainian election interference was of greater concern.

    https://washingtonpost.com/national-security/senate-intelligence-trump-russia-report/2020/08/18/62a7573e-e093-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html
    “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.

  441. Hedges wrote War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Force_That_Gives_Us_Meaning
    But that is all I have read of him, though I thought the book was very good.
    Dissecting the column, I don’t agree with his dismissal of Biden and the drawing of parallels to Yugoslavia via Confederate statues and the issues around them seems rather glib. This isn’t to say that I don’t think we are in bad shape, I found this article
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bernie-sanders-dnc-speech-convention-joe-biden-2020-election-trump-a9675161.html
    pointing out that things must be bad to have Sanders to give the speech he did.
    Also, the article preceeds the Harris pick. While I don’t think that choosing her would have changed Hedges’ mind, I’d like to think that Biden might be setting himself up to be a 1 term president, and then stepping aside for Harris.
    Of course, if you have a notion that Biden is simply a neo-liberal shill (and Hedges seems to take that line, as he felt Obama was simply a faux-liberal
    https://bangordailynews.com/2014/06/17/politics/corporate-forces-are-forces-of-death-chris-hedges-criticizes-capitalism-faux-liberals-like-obama-during-portland-talk/
    it’s probably going to be hard to convince him he might be overstating his case.

  442. Hedges wrote War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Force_That_Gives_Us_Meaning
    But that is all I have read of him, though I thought the book was very good.
    Dissecting the column, I don’t agree with his dismissal of Biden and the drawing of parallels to Yugoslavia via Confederate statues and the issues around them seems rather glib. This isn’t to say that I don’t think we are in bad shape, I found this article
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bernie-sanders-dnc-speech-convention-joe-biden-2020-election-trump-a9675161.html
    pointing out that things must be bad to have Sanders to give the speech he did.
    Also, the article preceeds the Harris pick. While I don’t think that choosing her would have changed Hedges’ mind, I’d like to think that Biden might be setting himself up to be a 1 term president, and then stepping aside for Harris.
    Of course, if you have a notion that Biden is simply a neo-liberal shill (and Hedges seems to take that line, as he felt Obama was simply a faux-liberal
    https://bangordailynews.com/2014/06/17/politics/corporate-forces-are-forces-of-death-chris-hedges-criticizes-capitalism-faux-liberals-like-obama-during-portland-talk/
    it’s probably going to be hard to convince him he might be overstating his case.

  443. “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.
    People continue to be in denial about this, minimizing or ignoring it constantly.

  444. “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.
    People continue to be in denial about this, minimizing or ignoring it constantly.

  445. Trump pardons Susan B. Anthony and then invites armed couple who would have shot her to speak at the Republican convention and also signs executive order that prevents her from moving into white middle class neighborhoods.

  446. Trump pardons Susan B. Anthony and then invites armed couple who would have shot her to speak at the Republican convention and also signs executive order that prevents her from moving into white middle class neighborhoods.

  447. It will soon be revealed that Satan signed a non-disclosure agreement with Donald Trump to hide the names of the tens of millions of anti-American dupes who will vote for him and/or a third party candidate in November and then burn in everlasting Hell.

  448. It will soon be revealed that Satan signed a non-disclosure agreement with Donald Trump to hide the names of the tens of millions of anti-American dupes who will vote for him and/or a third party candidate in November and then burn in everlasting Hell.

  449. lj, I agree with you, particularly about the Biden stuff etc. That’s where I seriously parted company with him, on the grounds that there are more potential paths out than he allows. I hope.

  450. lj, I agree with you, particularly about the Biden stuff etc. That’s where I seriously parted company with him, on the grounds that there are more potential paths out than he allows. I hope.

  451. Left-wing Cassandra, or Speaker Of Truth To Power, depending on where you sit.
    ¿Porque no los dos?
    Hedges is basically the person that mckinneytexas describes whenever mckinneytexas rants about how the left is a religion. Hedges is Greenwald had Greenwald gone to seminary and spent too much time reading the Nevi’im. I read him to glean information that I can go back and research to get a more nuanced understanding.
    He’s on RT, but also on AlterNet. Basically, he’s wherever he can find a platform. I don’t think he’s any more of a Russian asset than is Greenwald – probably less, lacking the Wikileaks contacts – I’m guessing he’s given space because it adds legitimacy to RT and his criticisms of the US serve their greater goal of delegitimizing US power.

  452. Left-wing Cassandra, or Speaker Of Truth To Power, depending on where you sit.
    ¿Porque no los dos?
    Hedges is basically the person that mckinneytexas describes whenever mckinneytexas rants about how the left is a religion. Hedges is Greenwald had Greenwald gone to seminary and spent too much time reading the Nevi’im. I read him to glean information that I can go back and research to get a more nuanced understanding.
    He’s on RT, but also on AlterNet. Basically, he’s wherever he can find a platform. I don’t think he’s any more of a Russian asset than is Greenwald – probably less, lacking the Wikileaks contacts – I’m guessing he’s given space because it adds legitimacy to RT and his criticisms of the US serve their greater goal of delegitimizing US power.

  453. Fox News’ big takeaway from the senate report, based solely on their headline because I won’t give them any traffic, is that the FBI gave too much credence to the Steele dossier. Sound journalism.

  454. Fox News’ big takeaway from the senate report, based solely on their headline because I won’t give them any traffic, is that the FBI gave too much credence to the Steele dossier. Sound journalism.

  455. I’m guessing he’s given space because it adds legitimacy to RT and his criticisms of the US serve their greater goal of delegitimizing US power.
    Which is not in our interests (depending who “our” is, of course). Better work can be found without assisting Putin’s helpers. Try Brian Klaas, for example, an American who resides in the UK.

  456. I’m guessing he’s given space because it adds legitimacy to RT and his criticisms of the US serve their greater goal of delegitimizing US power.
    Which is not in our interests (depending who “our” is, of course). Better work can be found without assisting Putin’s helpers. Try Brian Klaas, for example, an American who resides in the UK.

  457. I have an impressive announcement. I have just received a letter from the Republican National Committee telling me that I have been added to the “Presidential Honor Roll” for my efforts on behalf of Donald J Trump. (ROTFLOL!!)
    Why important? you may well ask. Because if my efforts on behalf are worth celebrating, they’re definitely way beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean, I’m not the Lincoln Project, but still. Talk about coming off desperate.

  458. I have an impressive announcement. I have just received a letter from the Republican National Committee telling me that I have been added to the “Presidential Honor Roll” for my efforts on behalf of Donald J Trump. (ROTFLOL!!)
    Why important? you may well ask. Because if my efforts on behalf are worth celebrating, they’re definitely way beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean, I’m not the Lincoln Project, but still. Talk about coming off desperate.

  459. Hedges is Greenwald had Greenwald gone to seminary and spent too much time reading the Nevi’im.
    LOL
    I, too, have had my mellow harshed on occasion by spending too much time in the Nevi’im. The prophets, especially, are some gloomy dudes.
    Hedges or no Hedges, there are serious structural problems in the US that are quite deep and which won’t be magically solved by a Biden presidency.
    And all of that said, a Biden presidency is essential to making any progress whatsoever on solving them. Any of them.
    We’re not going to have a POTUS who is not generally friendly to neo-liberal capitalist economics in my lifetime. We are not going to have a POTUS who is not generally supportive of a hegemonic foreign policy in my lifetime.
    What we can have, and must have, is a POTUS who is not a plainly corrupt vindictive divisive ignorant transparently self-interested crook.
    Biden is actually a much better option than a mere ham sandwich, and he appears to be setting the place for younger, more vigorous, and more diverse leadership when his time is done.
    He’ll be great. Not perfect, not world-changing. There will be no dramatic inflection points in our social and cultural history. He’ll just be a competent POTUS.
    Imagine that.
    I appreciate people like Hedges, they help keep us all honest. And I do not disagree that the end state of all current trends is basically a kleptocratic security state with, at best, performative democracy.
    But I’m voting for Biden and Harris, I’m sending money to (D) candidates in whatever amounts I can spare, and I’m looking for opportunities to help keeping the franchise available for everyone.
    The perfect is the enemy of the good.

  460. Hedges is Greenwald had Greenwald gone to seminary and spent too much time reading the Nevi’im.
    LOL
    I, too, have had my mellow harshed on occasion by spending too much time in the Nevi’im. The prophets, especially, are some gloomy dudes.
    Hedges or no Hedges, there are serious structural problems in the US that are quite deep and which won’t be magically solved by a Biden presidency.
    And all of that said, a Biden presidency is essential to making any progress whatsoever on solving them. Any of them.
    We’re not going to have a POTUS who is not generally friendly to neo-liberal capitalist economics in my lifetime. We are not going to have a POTUS who is not generally supportive of a hegemonic foreign policy in my lifetime.
    What we can have, and must have, is a POTUS who is not a plainly corrupt vindictive divisive ignorant transparently self-interested crook.
    Biden is actually a much better option than a mere ham sandwich, and he appears to be setting the place for younger, more vigorous, and more diverse leadership when his time is done.
    He’ll be great. Not perfect, not world-changing. There will be no dramatic inflection points in our social and cultural history. He’ll just be a competent POTUS.
    Imagine that.
    I appreciate people like Hedges, they help keep us all honest. And I do not disagree that the end state of all current trends is basically a kleptocratic security state with, at best, performative democracy.
    But I’m voting for Biden and Harris, I’m sending money to (D) candidates in whatever amounts I can spare, and I’m looking for opportunities to help keeping the franchise available for everyone.
    The perfect is the enemy of the good.

  461. Hedges
    The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    oh well. we might as well just find the nearest volcano and fling ourselves into it.
    and the comments?
    those people need some fucking Xanax.

  462. Hedges
    The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    oh well. we might as well just find the nearest volcano and fling ourselves into it.
    and the comments?
    those people need some fucking Xanax.

  463. The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    This is likely so.
    It will also remove all of that crap from the White House.
    So, a win.

  464. The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    This is likely so.
    It will also remove all of that crap from the White House.
    So, a win.

  467. The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    But then, the retention of Trump would be a validation, which would encourage all that crap far more. So even without considering the cleansing of the White House, a win.

  468. The removal of Trump from office will only exacerbate the lust for racist violence he incites and the intoxicating elixir of white nationalism.
    But then, the retention of Trump would be a validation, which would encourage all that crap far more. So even without considering the cleansing of the White House, a win.

  469. What we can have, and must have, is a POTUS who is not a plainly corrupt vindictive divisive ignorant transparently self-interested crook.
    Oh amen, thrice amen.
    Because if my efforts on behalf are worth celebrating, they’re definitely way beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel.
    wj, you are in excellent company. I remember hilzoy tweeting before the last election that she had been getting flattering letters thanking her for her pivotal support from the GOP (I can’t remember, it might even have been from the Trump campaign), so this is more of the same. As incompetence goes, this is hardly one of their most consequential examples.

  470. What we can have, and must have, is a POTUS who is not a plainly corrupt vindictive divisive ignorant transparently self-interested crook.
    Oh amen, thrice amen.
    Because if my efforts on behalf are worth celebrating, they’re definitely way beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel.
    wj, you are in excellent company. I remember hilzoy tweeting before the last election that she had been getting flattering letters thanking her for her pivotal support from the GOP (I can’t remember, it might even have been from the Trump campaign), so this is more of the same. As incompetence goes, this is hardly one of their most consequential examples.

  471. As incompetence goes, this is hardly one of their most consequential examples.
    Quite true. But I figure every dime they waste sending mail to me (the appeals for money are contributing a significant amount to our recycling) is one that isn’t doing something that might actually help his campaign. So the more the better.

  472. As incompetence goes, this is hardly one of their most consequential examples.
    Quite true. But I figure every dime they waste sending mail to me (the appeals for money are contributing a significant amount to our recycling) is one that isn’t doing something that might actually help his campaign. So the more the better.

  473. So the more the better.
    True enough.
    But gosh, I just watched the whole 18 minutes of Michelle Obama’s speech. That woman is terrific: sincere, impassioned, transparently a good person. I thought it was very moving, and she was visibly moved too when she was talking about Biden, and the state of the nation. Between her and Kamala Harris, I’m guessing that’s one demographic fully tied down. But with any luck, decent people of every colour and party stripe will hear what she says, and choose, after the last three and half years, this time at least, to put country first.

  474. So the more the better.
    True enough.
    But gosh, I just watched the whole 18 minutes of Michelle Obama’s speech. That woman is terrific: sincere, impassioned, transparently a good person. I thought it was very moving, and she was visibly moved too when she was talking about Biden, and the state of the nation. Between her and Kamala Harris, I’m guessing that’s one demographic fully tied down. But with any luck, decent people of every colour and party stripe will hear what she says, and choose, after the last three and half years, this time at least, to put country first.

  475. I’m not really sure what anyone is supposed to do about a bunch of neo-Nazi/Confederates getting upset if Trump loses. Are we supposed to vote for Trump to avoid that outcome? (I don’t feel like reading the piece, after reading the comments here, to find out if Hedges addresses that.)

  476. I’m not really sure what anyone is supposed to do about a bunch of neo-Nazi/Confederates getting upset if Trump loses. Are we supposed to vote for Trump to avoid that outcome? (I don’t feel like reading the piece, after reading the comments here, to find out if Hedges addresses that.)

  477. But with any luck, decent people of every colour and party stripe will hear what she says, and choose, after the last three and half years, this time at least, to put country first.
    Thank you.
    I don’t feel like reading the piece, after reading the comments here, to find out if Hedges addresses that.
    Thank you.

  478. But with any luck, decent people of every colour and party stripe will hear what she says, and choose, after the last three and half years, this time at least, to put country first.
    Thank you.
    I don’t feel like reading the piece, after reading the comments here, to find out if Hedges addresses that.
    Thank you.

  479. Are we supposed to vote for Trump to avoid that outcome?
    No. I believe he is just making the same point that russell makes so convincingly: that those people will still be here even after a Trump defeat, and that business as usual (i.e. the status quo ante) will not be sufficient to get rid of them and deal with the underlying problem. So far, no credible solutions offered by anyone of course, but it sure needs facing and thinking about.

  480. Are we supposed to vote for Trump to avoid that outcome?
    No. I believe he is just making the same point that russell makes so convincingly: that those people will still be here even after a Trump defeat, and that business as usual (i.e. the status quo ante) will not be sufficient to get rid of them and deal with the underlying problem. So far, no credible solutions offered by anyone of course, but it sure needs facing and thinking about.

  481. I never get any mail.
    Well, that’s true too, but I never get any mail appreciating my support for President Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
    Except for that one small package that was ticking.
    I simply don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

  482. I never get any mail.
    Well, that’s true too, but I never get any mail appreciating my support for President Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
    Except for that one small package that was ticking.
    I simply don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

  483. of the options on the table, leaving Trump there to encourage and legitimize them is absolutely the worst possible option.
    Hedges:
    It is up to us to abolish the American kleptocracy. It is up to us to mount sustained acts of mass civil disobedience to bring down the empire. It poisons the world as it poisons us. If we mobilize to build an open society, we hold out the possibility of beating back these crisis cults as well as slowing and disrupting the march towards ecocide.
    mass civil disobedience is not going to happen – not on the scale required to “bring down the empire”.
    there are millions upon millions of people who are very comfortable with “the empire”. they really, truly, aren’t up for Hedges’ righteous cleansing. they’re happy with tinkering. if that’s not good enough for Hedges, that’s his problem.

  484. of the options on the table, leaving Trump there to encourage and legitimize them is absolutely the worst possible option.
    Hedges:
    It is up to us to abolish the American kleptocracy. It is up to us to mount sustained acts of mass civil disobedience to bring down the empire. It poisons the world as it poisons us. If we mobilize to build an open society, we hold out the possibility of beating back these crisis cults as well as slowing and disrupting the march towards ecocide.
    mass civil disobedience is not going to happen – not on the scale required to “bring down the empire”.
    there are millions upon millions of people who are very comfortable with “the empire”. they really, truly, aren’t up for Hedges’ righteous cleansing. they’re happy with tinkering. if that’s not good enough for Hedges, that’s his problem.

  485. If Biden wins convincingly, I (unlike I guess Hedges) don’t see how sustained acts of mass civil disobedience would be necessary, and they clearly would not appeal to any significant number of people. But if Trump wins again, all bets are off. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.

  486. If Biden wins convincingly, I (unlike I guess Hedges) don’t see how sustained acts of mass civil disobedience would be necessary, and they clearly would not appeal to any significant number of people. But if Trump wins again, all bets are off. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.

  487. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.
    True enough. But then, we’re in French Resistance territory, or Syrian rebel territory, or whatever. Let’s try really hard not to get there. The French were brave, but didn’t win without a lot of help. The Syrians … well, whatever. [Providing an entry for Donald, I realize. Similarly, we’re not angels.]

  488. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.
    True enough. But then, we’re in French Resistance territory, or Syrian rebel territory, or whatever. Let’s try really hard not to get there. The French were brave, but didn’t win without a lot of help. The Syrians … well, whatever. [Providing an entry for Donald, I realize. Similarly, we’re not angels.]

  491. If Biden wins convincingly, I (unlike I guess Hedges) don’t see how sustained acts of mass civil disobedience would be necessary, and they clearly would not appeal to any significant number of people. But if Trump wins again, all bets are off. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.
    Activating the science fiction mode again:
    If Biden wins convincingly – which I sincerely hope – then the change-averse on either side of the party split will breathe a sigh of relief, congratulate themselves on having dodged a bullet, and settle back to fighting over every incremental change. We will continue to saunter vaguely towards climate apocalypse, but with good intentions.
    Meanwhile, the apocalyptic patriot right will continue to build towards open conflict. The scale will be more local, but the building will continue apace.
    If Trump wins, then we are in for Civil Rights era/Weather Underground levels of unrest and an acceleration of the push against the Left framed as a push for law and order in the face of socialist anarchy. But poltically we’ll be in the 1880s instead of the 1960s. No Great Society waits in the wings.
    Either way, though, all the nonsense over the pandemic has convinced me that we are likely not going to manage the level of cooperation required to avoid the worst of Climate Change related ecological collapse.
    Better to face that with a somewhat intact political system than a sabotaged and dismantled one.

  492. If Biden wins convincingly, I (unlike I guess Hedges) don’t see how sustained acts of mass civil disobedience would be necessary, and they clearly would not appeal to any significant number of people. But if Trump wins again, all bets are off. A certain amount of civil disobedience has already taken place, and if he (they) win a second term, there is absolutely no limit to what they could do, or what might be necessary to stop them.
    Activating the science fiction mode again:
    If Biden wins convincingly – which I sincerely hope – then the change-averse on either side of the party split will breathe a sigh of relief, congratulate themselves on having dodged a bullet, and settle back to fighting over every incremental change. We will continue to saunter vaguely towards climate apocalypse, but with good intentions.
    Meanwhile, the apocalyptic patriot right will continue to build towards open conflict. The scale will be more local, but the building will continue apace.
    If Trump wins, then we are in for Civil Rights era/Weather Underground levels of unrest and an acceleration of the push against the Left framed as a push for law and order in the face of socialist anarchy. But poltically we’ll be in the 1880s instead of the 1960s. No Great Society waits in the wings.
    Either way, though, all the nonsense over the pandemic has convinced me that we are likely not going to manage the level of cooperation required to avoid the worst of Climate Change related ecological collapse.
    Better to face that with a somewhat intact political system than a sabotaged and dismantled one.

  493. Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yall sit here jawing about monsters under the bed while real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Such bs. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election, will anyone here admit to being wrong?
    Naw, you’ll just find a picture of some guy with a rifle and get the vapors while ignoring people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.

  494. Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yall sit here jawing about monsters under the bed while real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Such bs. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election, will anyone here admit to being wrong?
    Naw, you’ll just find a picture of some guy with a rifle and get the vapors while ignoring people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.

  495. “will anyone here admit to being wrong?”
    Be a Proud Boy and you go first.
    Look it up.
    “get the vapors”
    Gun them down and then breath easier.
    Law enforcement seems more comfortable beating on unarmed women standing while being female than interdicting criminals pulling people, sometimes armed fucking subhuman republicans, out of their weaponized cars.
    What’s the plan there?
    I know.

  496. “will anyone here admit to being wrong?”
    Be a Proud Boy and you go first.
    Look it up.
    “get the vapors”
    Gun them down and then breath easier.
    Law enforcement seems more comfortable beating on unarmed women standing while being female than interdicting criminals pulling people, sometimes armed fucking subhuman republicans, out of their weaponized cars.
    What’s the plan there?
    I know.

  497. And by the way, the violence today is nothing like the late 1960s and early 1970s …. yet.
    Another way of telling whether(weather) someone was there or not.

  498. And by the way, the violence today is nothing like the late 1960s and early 1970s …. yet.
    Another way of telling whether(weather) someone was there or not.

  499. One similarity to the late 1960s (from someone who was there):
    You have a lot of people out peacefully demonstrating for a cause. And you have a small group of people, people who don’t care at all about or are even opposed to that cause, who are behaving violently.
    The folks being violent damage the cause, which is what they want**. Sometimes because they just hate it. Sometimes because, if the demonstrations succeed, the drastic changes the violent people want become less likely.
    In late 60s Berkeley, most of the demonstrators were, famously, “long-haired hippies.” But the guys being violent, and the guys planning riots rather than demonstrations, had shorter hair than I did — and I was in ROTC. Some were real, as opposed to imaginary, communist true believers (some Leninists, some Maoists, even the occasional Trotskyite) who hoped to start a revolution. Some were arch conservatives, who wanted to motivate a harsh crackdown. In this, it does feel like today.
    ** For completeness, I realize that some few of the people behaving violently are just garden variety criminals seizing the opportunity to loot. But, at least in my observation, not many.

  500. One similarity to the late 1960s (from someone who was there):
    You have a lot of people out peacefully demonstrating for a cause. And you have a small group of people, people who don’t care at all about or are even opposed to that cause, who are behaving violently.
    The folks being violent damage the cause, which is what they want**. Sometimes because they just hate it. Sometimes because, if the demonstrations succeed, the drastic changes the violent people want become less likely.
    In late 60s Berkeley, most of the demonstrators were, famously, “long-haired hippies.” But the guys being violent, and the guys planning riots rather than demonstrations, had shorter hair than I did — and I was in ROTC. Some were real, as opposed to imaginary, communist true believers (some Leninists, some Maoists, even the occasional Trotskyite) who hoped to start a revolution. Some were arch conservatives, who wanted to motivate a harsh crackdown. In this, it does feel like today.
    ** For completeness, I realize that some few of the people behaving violently are just garden variety criminals seizing the opportunity to loot. But, at least in my observation, not many.

  501. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election
    This seems to suggest that no matter what they do, we are wrong. Or would we be right if they aren’t so noisy, but not completely quiet? Can you give us a dB range?
    people in black mask
    Good to know that you can tell just by their mask color…

  502. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election
    This seems to suggest that no matter what they do, we are wrong. Or would we be right if they aren’t so noisy, but not completely quiet? Can you give us a dB range?
    people in black mask
    Good to know that you can tell just by their mask color…

  503. The building violence is all from the left
    Horseshit.
    I mean, not to be blunt, but horseshit.
    Go look it up and come back with numbers. Then we can discuss.

  504. The building violence is all from the left
    Horseshit.
    I mean, not to be blunt, but horseshit.
    Go look it up and come back with numbers. Then we can discuss.

  507. As a starter, go see how many people the Weather Underground killed. And how many of those people were in the Weather Underground.
    Then go look up how many people have been killed by right-wing extremists of various sorts over the last 20 years or so. Or just pick any single year.
    And compare.
    You can also go look to see how many people have been killed or injured in the protests following from George Floyd’s murder. And see how many of them were protestors, and how many killed or injured by protestors.
    And compare.
    FWIW, I have no use for anything resembling the Weather Underground, I’m just making a comment about the quality of your information here.
    Go get some actual information and maybe we can discuss.

  508. As a starter, go see how many people the Weather Underground killed. And how many of those people were in the Weather Underground.
    Then go look up how many people have been killed by right-wing extremists of various sorts over the last 20 years or so. Or just pick any single year.
    And compare.
    You can also go look to see how many people have been killed or injured in the protests following from George Floyd’s murder. And see how many of them were protestors, and how many killed or injured by protestors.
    And compare.
    FWIW, I have no use for anything resembling the Weather Underground, I’m just making a comment about the quality of your information here.
    Go get some actual information and maybe we can discuss.

  511. real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Who is rioting? Where are they rioting? What are they rioting about?
    Who was beaten? Who were they beaten by?
    people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.
    People in black masks are looting? Where did this happen?
    Who got pulled out of a car and beaten? Who did the pulling and beating?
    Do you want to engage in some kind of contest about which side is more violent? Which side embraces and employs violent rhetoric? Which side advocates and prepares for violence against their opposites?
    Which side has actually harmed or killed more people?
    Let’s have that conversation. If you want to bring it, then freaking bring it.
    Go assemble your facts and let’s have the conversation.

  512. real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Who is rioting? Where are they rioting? What are they rioting about?
    Who was beaten? Who were they beaten by?
    people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.
    People in black masks are looting? Where did this happen?
    Who got pulled out of a car and beaten? Who did the pulling and beating?
    Do you want to engage in some kind of contest about which side is more violent? Which side embraces and employs violent rhetoric? Which side advocates and prepares for violence against their opposites?
    Which side has actually harmed or killed more people?
    Let’s have that conversation. If you want to bring it, then freaking bring it.
    Go assemble your facts and let’s have the conversation.

  513. I’m not going to engage in any back and forth. Lm not going to provide a day by day total of thecstreets in this country that are violently controlled by groups in, yes black, masks. Im not going to pretend anyone here wants an engagement in good faith.
    But the Proud Boys haven’t shown up anyplace there werent already vi[lent protests, including attacking police stations. Its not even close.
    So I’m going to go back to lurking, but this whole lather you’ve worked yourselves into about “right wing” violence when its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much.

  514. I’m not going to engage in any back and forth. Lm not going to provide a day by day total of thecstreets in this country that are violently controlled by groups in, yes black, masks. Im not going to pretend anyone here wants an engagement in good faith.
    But the Proud Boys haven’t shown up anyplace there werent already vi[lent protests, including attacking police stations. Its not even close.
    So I’m going to go back to lurking, but this whole lather you’ve worked yourselves into about “right wing” violence when its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much.

  517. its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much.
    Somehow I missed this one. And, on a day when we have the POTUS publicly talking about how he’ll wait and see if he’ll accept the election results.
    Look, if you want to actually engage in conversation, fine. But if all you want to do is occasionally stop by to drop an ill-informed turd in the punchbowl, why bother?
    You just like to rattle our cage? If that’s your game, take it elsewhere.

  518. its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much.
    Somehow I missed this one. And, on a day when we have the POTUS publicly talking about how he’ll wait and see if he’ll accept the election results.
    Look, if you want to actually engage in conversation, fine. But if all you want to do is occasionally stop by to drop an ill-informed turd in the punchbowl, why bother?
    You just like to rattle our cage? If that’s your game, take it elsewhere.

  519. Im not going to pretend anyone here wants an engagement in good faith.
    Looks like someone’s hijacked Marty’s ID. Marty is usually willing to engage in good faith. And his punctuation is better, too.

  520. Im not going to pretend anyone here wants an engagement in good faith.
    Looks like someone’s hijacked Marty’s ID. Marty is usually willing to engage in good faith. And his punctuation is better, too.

  521. Every now and then I try to inject some notion besides reinforcing the echo chamber here. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    Meither candidate is likely to concede an election that is remotely close. That doesn’t translate to anyone calling in the military to stage a coup. Either way.
    While I’m here for a minute, there is a perfectly reasonable concern that rolling out vote by mail nationally with literally weeks of plannng is rife with opportunities for fraud. Denying that because “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow. Lots of things happen when big changes in large processes are rushed.
    So, Trump shouldnt fuck with USPS, and people who are against vote by mail have a legitimate concern. They shouldn’t be lumped together.

  522. Every now and then I try to inject some notion besides reinforcing the echo chamber here. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    Meither candidate is likely to concede an election that is remotely close. That doesn’t translate to anyone calling in the military to stage a coup. Either way.
    While I’m here for a minute, there is a perfectly reasonable concern that rolling out vote by mail nationally with literally weeks of plannng is rife with opportunities for fraud. Denying that because “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow. Lots of things happen when big changes in large processes are rushed.
    So, Trump shouldnt fuck with USPS, and people who are against vote by mail have a legitimate concern. They shouldn’t be lumped together.

  525. But if all you want to do is occasionally stop by to [punchbowl metaphor]
    You know it’s bad when Russell is channelling me.
    Every now and then I try to inject some notion besides reinforcing the echo chamber here. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    When ‘some notion’ is trotted out absent any data, (I prefer some link that I can read, but even quoting someone else would be better than nothing), you are probably going to end up on the bottom of a pile-on. If it keeps happening, some might conclude that this is a place you like to be.

  526. But if all you want to do is occasionally stop by to [punchbowl metaphor]
    You know it’s bad when Russell is channelling me.
    Every now and then I try to inject some notion besides reinforcing the echo chamber here. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    When ‘some notion’ is trotted out absent any data, (I prefer some link that I can read, but even quoting someone else would be better than nothing), you are probably going to end up on the bottom of a pile-on. If it keeps happening, some might conclude that this is a place you like to be.

  527. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    It’s hard to know how to address this, because it’s not clear what you are talking about.
    Do you mean the destruction of property by black bloc anarchists? Do you think they are representative of the American “left”?
    Do you mean the looting that has accompanied the protests of Floyd’s killing? Do you think that is politically motivated?
    In any case, it seems to me that all of that has been discussed here at length, repeatedly. I don’t see anything like a refusal to recognize or talk about any of it.
    I’m also not seeing a groundswell of support here for post-election violence if Trump wins. I am of course excluding JDT. There was a suggestion from nous that rioting might be an appropriate form of civil disobedience, in the face of an unresponsive and unrepresentative federal government. There was a discussion, pro and con, of an article calling for the military to step in if Trump refuses to concede.
    Are those the discussions you’re talking about?
    Do you think that similar topics are not discussed among right-leaning people? That any of this is somehow particular to “the left”? Do you doubt, for that matter, that there will not be violence in the case of a Trump loss?
    What country, and what historical moment, do you think we are living in right now?
    I can tell you that I personally, and people like me generally, have lived with the persistent threat of right-wing political violence for decades. I *assume* that people will be killed if Trump loses, and probably if he wins. Because people are being, and have been, killed, fairly regularly, by right-wing nutters fired up by the rhetoric that is the normal daily discourse on the right. For decades.
    Do you want to talk about that?
    there is a perfectly reasonable concern that rolling out vote by mail nationally with literally weeks of plannng is rife with opportunities for fraud. Denying that because “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow. Lots of things happen when big changes in large processes are rushed.
    What is it that you think is going to happen?
    If “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow, imagine how “something might happen” sounds.
    What might happen?
    People need to vote. A lot of people will be reluctant to vote in person, and for good reason. Voting by mail is a practice of long standing, with a tremendous amount of existing infrastructure, that has successfully been used in elections of all types, at all scales, for decades.
    Can you explain your concern? Specifically enough that we could actually discuss it?

  528. No one here ever talks about the growing violence on the left. But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.
    It’s hard to know how to address this, because it’s not clear what you are talking about.
    Do you mean the destruction of property by black bloc anarchists? Do you think they are representative of the American “left”?
    Do you mean the looting that has accompanied the protests of Floyd’s killing? Do you think that is politically motivated?
    In any case, it seems to me that all of that has been discussed here at length, repeatedly. I don’t see anything like a refusal to recognize or talk about any of it.
    I’m also not seeing a groundswell of support here for post-election violence if Trump wins. I am of course excluding JDT. There was a suggestion from nous that rioting might be an appropriate form of civil disobedience, in the face of an unresponsive and unrepresentative federal government. There was a discussion, pro and con, of an article calling for the military to step in if Trump refuses to concede.
    Are those the discussions you’re talking about?
    Do you think that similar topics are not discussed among right-leaning people? That any of this is somehow particular to “the left”? Do you doubt, for that matter, that there will not be violence in the case of a Trump loss?
    What country, and what historical moment, do you think we are living in right now?
    I can tell you that I personally, and people like me generally, have lived with the persistent threat of right-wing political violence for decades. I *assume* that people will be killed if Trump loses, and probably if he wins. Because people are being, and have been, killed, fairly regularly, by right-wing nutters fired up by the rhetoric that is the normal daily discourse on the right. For decades.
    Do you want to talk about that?
    there is a perfectly reasonable concern that rolling out vote by mail nationally with literally weeks of plannng is rife with opportunities for fraud. Denying that because “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow. Lots of things happen when big changes in large processes are rushed.
    What is it that you think is going to happen?
    If “there’s no evidence it has happened” rings hollow, imagine how “something might happen” sounds.
    What might happen?
    People need to vote. A lot of people will be reluctant to vote in person, and for good reason. Voting by mail is a practice of long standing, with a tremendous amount of existing infrastructure, that has successfully been used in elections of all types, at all scales, for decades.
    Can you explain your concern? Specifically enough that we could actually discuss it?

  529. …when its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much….
    Sure.
    What is this, if not a refusal in advance to accept the election result ?
    “The only way we’re going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.”
    (Trump, two days ago.)

  530. …when its the left consistently talking about not accepting the outcome of the election was too much….
    Sure.
    What is this, if not a refusal in advance to accept the election result ?
    “The only way we’re going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.”
    (Trump, two days ago.)

  531. Trump pardons Susan B. Anthony…
    I wonder if someone showed him this quote ?
    ”If intelligence, justice and morality are to have precedence in the government, let the question of women be brought up first and that of the negro last.”
    Possibly a little unfair to the lady to single that out, but I came across it in this interesting article (which also introduced a useful concept to me…)
    The Karen War Will Never End
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/08/karen-meme-coronavirus/615355/
    …The best way to see the Karen meme is as a “scissor,” an idea popularized by the writer Scott Alexander of Slate Star Codex to describe an incident or a statement that drives people to such wildly divergent interpretations that they can never be reconciled. Because white women can be both oppressors and oppressed, Karen is a scissor. Does the word describe a particular type of behavior that resonates because of the particular racial history of the United States? Yes. Is that the only way it is used? No.
    As it happens, the casually sexist roots of the meme are as deep as the anti-racist ones. One of the foundational internet Karens was the ex-wife of a Redditor who chronicled their fraught relationship in the subreddit r/FuckYouKaren, created in December 2017. The intensity of the blowback when pointing facts like this out is itself instructive….

  532. Trump pardons Susan B. Anthony…
    I wonder if someone showed him this quote ?
    ”If intelligence, justice and morality are to have precedence in the government, let the question of women be brought up first and that of the negro last.”
    Possibly a little unfair to the lady to single that out, but I came across it in this interesting article (which also introduced a useful concept to me…)
    The Karen War Will Never End
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/08/karen-meme-coronavirus/615355/
    …The best way to see the Karen meme is as a “scissor,” an idea popularized by the writer Scott Alexander of Slate Star Codex to describe an incident or a statement that drives people to such wildly divergent interpretations that they can never be reconciled. Because white women can be both oppressors and oppressed, Karen is a scissor. Does the word describe a particular type of behavior that resonates because of the particular racial history of the United States? Yes. Is that the only way it is used? No.
    As it happens, the casually sexist roots of the meme are as deep as the anti-racist ones. One of the foundational internet Karens was the ex-wife of a Redditor who chronicled their fraught relationship in the subreddit r/FuckYouKaren, created in December 2017. The intensity of the blowback when pointing facts like this out is itself instructive….

  533. The problem is, Marty thinks what’s happened to America in the last three years is just fine, business as usual, with the exception of the Floyd protests, and that we’re all making a partisan fuss about nothing.
    So either he’s a moral defective, or he’s been totally captured by the right wing noise machine and their talking points so that his version of reality is now so skewed that he’s living in an alternate, fantasy universe (ignoring, for just one example, the statistics about right-wing versus leftwing violence). Clearly, I do not believe, and have never believed, that he is a moral defective. So it must be the latter. This is the great, and terrible, triumph of this cult, in cleek’s terminology, that they have turned decent people into credulous zombies.
    I’m sorry, Marty, for offending you by using such language. I hope you can forgive me, when this is all over.

  534. The problem is, Marty thinks what’s happened to America in the last three years is just fine, business as usual, with the exception of the Floyd protests, and that we’re all making a partisan fuss about nothing.
    So either he’s a moral defective, or he’s been totally captured by the right wing noise machine and their talking points so that his version of reality is now so skewed that he’s living in an alternate, fantasy universe (ignoring, for just one example, the statistics about right-wing versus leftwing violence). Clearly, I do not believe, and have never believed, that he is a moral defective. So it must be the latter. This is the great, and terrible, triumph of this cult, in cleek’s terminology, that they have turned decent people into credulous zombies.
    I’m sorry, Marty, for offending you by using such language. I hope you can forgive me, when this is all over.

  535. This won’t ever be over. For as long as I have been alive there have been competing policy ideas on how to solve various problems that are perceived in our society. Those policies on the right, stronger economy, improving business opportunity to grow jobs, work for welfare, and even some very bipartisan concepts like improving border security and immigration enforcement have been rolled into a basket now deemed racist and xenophobic along with dozens of other discussions that get a cancel response of being morally defective.
    If we aren’t left wing liberal 100% we are evil people that should be wiped from the face of the earth.
    I am actually a pretty liberal person but I fall on the wrong “side” too often so I am morally defective.
    I have never said the last 3.5 years were business as usual. What I have said is the institutions of our government will survive this just fine.
    The real challenges are that every succeeding President in my lifetime has managed to make the Presidency more powerful, constantly diminishing the checks in the system. Having said that, the system has limited Trumps worst impulses at every turn.
    The institutions of our government have much more to worry about from those who don’t like the way it works, most on the left, who believe we should change the system every time they lose an election because, well, we cant have morally defective people running any part of the country.
    I am not the least insulted any more by the reactionary hyperbole here. It is just today’s answer to what I perceive Red State has always been.
    The cult has grown on both sides to where neither side accepts there is a reasonable middle, if you’re not in my cult then you are in their cult.
    And one specific answer, the “peaceful protests” in response to the Floyd death ended weeks ago, the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists who have people cowering in their homes waiting for the cops, who are under direct attack, to be empowered to protect them. Maybe that fades away, but i doubt it. They want a violent confrontation as much as any right wing hate group.
    And with that I will take my moral defects and go to work.

  536. This won’t ever be over. For as long as I have been alive there have been competing policy ideas on how to solve various problems that are perceived in our society. Those policies on the right, stronger economy, improving business opportunity to grow jobs, work for welfare, and even some very bipartisan concepts like improving border security and immigration enforcement have been rolled into a basket now deemed racist and xenophobic along with dozens of other discussions that get a cancel response of being morally defective.
    If we aren’t left wing liberal 100% we are evil people that should be wiped from the face of the earth.
    I am actually a pretty liberal person but I fall on the wrong “side” too often so I am morally defective.
    I have never said the last 3.5 years were business as usual. What I have said is the institutions of our government will survive this just fine.
    The real challenges are that every succeeding President in my lifetime has managed to make the Presidency more powerful, constantly diminishing the checks in the system. Having said that, the system has limited Trumps worst impulses at every turn.
    The institutions of our government have much more to worry about from those who don’t like the way it works, most on the left, who believe we should change the system every time they lose an election because, well, we cant have morally defective people running any part of the country.
    I am not the least insulted any more by the reactionary hyperbole here. It is just today’s answer to what I perceive Red State has always been.
    The cult has grown on both sides to where neither side accepts there is a reasonable middle, if you’re not in my cult then you are in their cult.
    And one specific answer, the “peaceful protests” in response to the Floyd death ended weeks ago, the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists who have people cowering in their homes waiting for the cops, who are under direct attack, to be empowered to protect them. Maybe that fades away, but i doubt it. They want a violent confrontation as much as any right wing hate group.
    And with that I will take my moral defects and go to work.

  539. Goddammit, I made it clear that in my opinion you WEREN’T morally defective! But maybe of the two alternative explanations I offered, you thought that the less offensive. Mea culpa.

  540. Goddammit, I made it clear that in my opinion you WEREN’T morally defective! But maybe of the two alternative explanations I offered, you thought that the less offensive. Mea culpa.

  543. the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists
    anarchists is pretty fucking far from the left.
    how on earth can you conflate people who explicitly say they want no government with the lefty caricature that wants the government to run everything?

  544. the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists
    anarchists is pretty fucking far from the left.
    how on earth can you conflate people who explicitly say they want no government with the lefty caricature that wants the government to run everything?

  545. The people in Seattle explicitly barricaded the cops out and threatened them with violence. The people in Portland attacked a police station. They all want to dismantle the governments ability to maintain safety. Seems anarchistic to me, i will use another term if you prefer one.

  546. The people in Seattle explicitly barricaded the cops out and threatened them with violence. The people in Portland attacked a police station. They all want to dismantle the governments ability to maintain safety. Seems anarchistic to me, i will use another term if you prefer one.

  547. if lefties want the government to control everything, then anarchists can’t be lefties – by definition of anarchist.
    unless “the left” just means “not the right” ?

  548. if lefties want the government to control everything, then anarchists can’t be lefties – by definition of anarchist.
    unless “the left” just means “not the right” ?

  549. GftNC,
    No apology is necessary. You are not privy to the hours I spend being the moderate in discussions with my more Trump cultist friends. The only one of those two I could be, based on the discussions I regularly have. is morally defective, which in most ways I am not.
    So I accept the cult view that I have to be one of those two things, secure in the knowledge that my moral defects in this area are probably not damning.

  550. GftNC,
    No apology is necessary. You are not privy to the hours I spend being the moderate in discussions with my more Trump cultist friends. The only one of those two I could be, based on the discussions I regularly have. is morally defective, which in most ways I am not.
    So I accept the cult view that I have to be one of those two things, secure in the knowledge that my moral defects in this area are probably not damning.

  551. Thank you, Marty, for your generosity of spirit. I can even swallow the cult view that I have to be one of those two things, under the circumstances.

  552. Thank you, Marty, for your generosity of spirit. I can even swallow the cult view that I have to be one of those two things, under the circumstances.

  553. A two GftNC, I loved getting new music from Dylan but some of it is ponderous. Not moving into my Dylan favorites.

  554. A two GftNC, I loved getting new music from Dylan but some of it is ponderous. Not moving into my Dylan favorites.

  557. This isn’t the most important story, but I’m curious what others think. There’s a focus on autocorrect that seems misplaced. Considering the words in question – the one the announcer in actually typed and the one he might have intended to type – it seems that a typo isn’t that much of a stretch. They differ by two letters, and both are adjacent to their substitute on the keyboard – “i” immediately to the right of “u” and “r” immediately left of “t.” And I can’t fathom a motive, given the guy’s position.
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/charlotte-hornets-john-focke-twitter-230741396.html

    One massive problem: he typed the N-word, the vile, don’t-say-it-ever, no-really-never one, where Nuggets was supposed to be.
    (…)
    Two coworkers, unprompted and separately, messaged me that they had no such issue with their phones confusing “Nuggets” for the racial slur when they tried on their own phones; if you try to type the N-word, it doesn’t fill in the word for you.
    While it strains credulity that it was a rogue “mistyping,” Focke is standing by his story.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible that he intended to type what he did. But I don’t see how “mistyping” strains credulity in this case.

  558. This isn’t the most important story, but I’m curious what others think. There’s a focus on autocorrect that seems misplaced. Considering the words in question – the one the announcer in actually typed and the one he might have intended to type – it seems that a typo isn’t that much of a stretch. They differ by two letters, and both are adjacent to their substitute on the keyboard – “i” immediately to the right of “u” and “r” immediately left of “t.” And I can’t fathom a motive, given the guy’s position.
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/charlotte-hornets-john-focke-twitter-230741396.html

    One massive problem: he typed the N-word, the vile, don’t-say-it-ever, no-really-never one, where Nuggets was supposed to be.
    (…)
    Two coworkers, unprompted and separately, messaged me that they had no such issue with their phones confusing “Nuggets” for the racial slur when they tried on their own phones; if you try to type the N-word, it doesn’t fill in the word for you.
    While it strains credulity that it was a rogue “mistyping,” Focke is standing by his story.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible that he intended to type what he did. But I don’t see how “mistyping” strains credulity in this case.

  561. The text in which the offensive word appeared was this:

    Shot making in this Jazz-[Nuggets] game is awesome! Murray and Mitchell going back and forth what a game!

    where the word that appeared was not “Nuggets”.
    TBH, and in the absence of other information, the typo explanation seems pretty plausible.
    Re: Seattle and Portland – both cities, and especially Portland, have histories of violent public demonstration, going back many years. And in the case of Portland at least, involving both anarchist and white supremacist elements.
    I’m not sure either can be used to make broader points about the left, the right, or anything else.
    Places have their own histories.

  562. The text in which the offensive word appeared was this:

    Shot making in this Jazz-[Nuggets] game is awesome! Murray and Mitchell going back and forth what a game!

    where the word that appeared was not “Nuggets”.
    TBH, and in the absence of other information, the typo explanation seems pretty plausible.
    Re: Seattle and Portland – both cities, and especially Portland, have histories of violent public demonstration, going back many years. And in the case of Portland at least, involving both anarchist and white supremacist elements.
    I’m not sure either can be used to make broader points about the left, the right, or anything else.
    Places have their own histories.

  563. hsh: given where all the letters are on the keyboard, I agree that it is possible it was mistyping. Possible, but unlikely. I have tried it, using all the ways I normally mistype things (a frequent occurrence, given that I touch-type), and can’t come up with that exact result. But given the possibility, I agree that there is reasonable doubt.

  564. hsh: given where all the letters are on the keyboard, I agree that it is possible it was mistyping. Possible, but unlikely. I have tried it, using all the ways I normally mistype things (a frequent occurrence, given that I touch-type), and can’t come up with that exact result. But given the possibility, I agree that there is reasonable doubt.

  565. As a counterpoint to Marty’s position….
    ‘He’s Destroyed Conservatism’: The Republican Case Against Trump’s GOP
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/19/interview-stuart-stevens-republican-case-against-trump-397918
    Stuart Stevens spent four decades helping Republicans—a lot of Republicans—win. He’s one of the most successful political operatives of his generation, crafting ads and devising strategies for President George W. Bush, Republican presidential nominees Mitt Romney and Bob Dole, and dozens of GOP governors, senators and congressmen. He didn’t win every race, but he thinks he had the best won-lost record in Republican campaign world.
    And now he feels terrible about it…

  566. As a counterpoint to Marty’s position….
    ‘He’s Destroyed Conservatism’: The Republican Case Against Trump’s GOP
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/19/interview-stuart-stevens-republican-case-against-trump-397918
    Stuart Stevens spent four decades helping Republicans—a lot of Republicans—win. He’s one of the most successful political operatives of his generation, crafting ads and devising strategies for President George W. Bush, Republican presidential nominees Mitt Romney and Bob Dole, and dozens of GOP governors, senators and congressmen. He didn’t win every race, but he thinks he had the best won-lost record in Republican campaign world.
    And now he feels terrible about it…

  567. And to answer the ‘it’ll all be fine when Trump is gone‘ attitude, it goes on:
    … While Stevens is one of the most prominent “Never Trump” Republicans, and It Was All a Lie is predictably scathing about the failures of President Donald Trump, the book does not blame Trump for the failures of the party he leads. It essentially takes for granted that Trump is as bad a president and a human being as his worst Democratic critics say—and that he constantly violates supposedly bedrock Republican commitments to free trade, family values, limited government and the Constitution. His point is that Trump is a fitting representative of the modern GOP….
    Worth reading in full.
    I might even buy his book….

  568. And to answer the ‘it’ll all be fine when Trump is gone‘ attitude, it goes on:
    … While Stevens is one of the most prominent “Never Trump” Republicans, and It Was All a Lie is predictably scathing about the failures of President Donald Trump, the book does not blame Trump for the failures of the party he leads. It essentially takes for granted that Trump is as bad a president and a human being as his worst Democratic critics say—and that he constantly violates supposedly bedrock Republican commitments to free trade, family values, limited government and the Constitution. His point is that Trump is a fitting representative of the modern GOP….
    Worth reading in full.
    I might even buy his book….

  571. …the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists who have people cowering in their homes waiting for the cops
    This is fantasy. Totally made up BS. I live near Seattle. I can tell you first hand that life goes on, and a few broken windows is not the end of the world. But sure, massively sitting on the legitimate aspirations of millions of people (and arbitrarily shooting a few of them or jailing them by the thousands) who just happen to not share your skin color…well, no big fucking deal.

  572. …the people on the street in Portland and Seattle and Minneapis, etc are criminal anarchists who have people cowering in their homes waiting for the cops
    This is fantasy. Totally made up BS. I live near Seattle. I can tell you first hand that life goes on, and a few broken windows is not the end of the world. But sure, massively sitting on the legitimate aspirations of millions of people (and arbitrarily shooting a few of them or jailing them by the thousands) who just happen to not share your skin color…well, no big fucking deal.

  573. The real challenges are that every succeeding President in my lifetime has managed to make the Presidency more powerful, constantly diminishing the checks in the system.
    Congress has been systematically ceding “power” to the executive since the Civil War. Life is complex. Decisions have to be made. Politics. The Cold War was a biggie in this regard. Just pointing your finger at the executive is to ignore the many fathers of this development.
    Having said that, the system has limited Trumps worst impulses at every turn.
    Perhaps. But a lot of damage has been done. His re-election might just be a tipping point in that regard, given the supine nature of the GOP. They are now a cult. Cults are dangerous.

  574. The real challenges are that every succeeding President in my lifetime has managed to make the Presidency more powerful, constantly diminishing the checks in the system.
    Congress has been systematically ceding “power” to the executive since the Civil War. Life is complex. Decisions have to be made. Politics. The Cold War was a biggie in this regard. Just pointing your finger at the executive is to ignore the many fathers of this development.
    Having said that, the system has limited Trumps worst impulses at every turn.
    Perhaps. But a lot of damage has been done. His re-election might just be a tipping point in that regard, given the supine nature of the GOP. They are now a cult. Cults are dangerous.

  577. a huge part of what distinguishes the GOP cult is how it gleefully abandoned all of those Family Values&trade, and its a 180° on Russia, and its eagerness to accept and defend the lies and ignorant blather Trump spouts. they’re not just partisans, they’re actually a cult centered on Donald Trump.
    and if they’re not a Trump cult, then the only other good explanation is that they have no actual core values except to oppose “the left” – a group apparently defined as anyone who isn’t “the right”. so, they never really abandoned them – they just stopped using them as campaign props.
    maybe both.

  578. a huge part of what distinguishes the GOP cult is how it gleefully abandoned all of those Family Values&trade, and its a 180° on Russia, and its eagerness to accept and defend the lies and ignorant blather Trump spouts. they’re not just partisans, they’re actually a cult centered on Donald Trump.
    and if they’re not a Trump cult, then the only other good explanation is that they have no actual core values except to oppose “the left” – a group apparently defined as anyone who isn’t “the right”. so, they never really abandoned them – they just stopped using them as campaign props.
    maybe both.

  579. “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.

    3 things happened that day in October [Oct 6, 2016]:
    1. The Obama admin made its first public intelligence assessment about Russian election interference
    2. The Washington Post published the Access Hollywood tape/story
    3. Roger Stone arranged for Wikileaks to start dropping Podesta’s emails

    but, liberals.

  580. “A grave counterintelligence threat” — just what you want at the President’s elbow.

    3 things happened that day in October [Oct 6, 2016]:
    1. The Obama admin made its first public intelligence assessment about Russian election interference
    2. The Washington Post published the Access Hollywood tape/story
    3. Roger Stone arranged for Wikileaks to start dropping Podesta’s emails

    but, liberals.

  581. Considering the latest senate report, I’m not sure what it takes to establish, if not collusion (since that seems to be somewhat of an overly used misnomer), then coordination, collaboration, conspiring, or any other “c” word you can think of.

  582. Considering the latest senate report, I’m not sure what it takes to establish, if not collusion (since that seems to be somewhat of an overly used misnomer), then coordination, collaboration, conspiring, or any other “c” word you can think of.

  583. Hmmm. Don’t misinterpret that “c” word thing. I was only poking fun at all the descriptors starting with “c.” I wasn’t thinking about anything vulgar at the time. It just occurred to me after the fact that it could be taken as a reference to the “c” word. I really dislike that word.

  584. Hmmm. Don’t misinterpret that “c” word thing. I was only poking fun at all the descriptors starting with “c.” I wasn’t thinking about anything vulgar at the time. It just occurred to me after the fact that it could be taken as a reference to the “c” word. I really dislike that word.

  585. People in Trump’s campaign coordinated their efforts with the efforts of Russian nationals to help Trump’s campaign, and hinder Clinton’s.
    Manafort, Junior, Stone. Campaign manager, son, close advisor. Most likely others, but no doubt about those three.
    Where and how any or all of that crosses the line and becomes criminal, I can’t tell you, because IANAL.
    But there is nothing more obvious to me than the truth of the above.
    Hardly worth discussing at this point, but certainly worth remembering.
    Fncking crooks. All of them.

  586. People in Trump’s campaign coordinated their efforts with the efforts of Russian nationals to help Trump’s campaign, and hinder Clinton’s.
    Manafort, Junior, Stone. Campaign manager, son, close advisor. Most likely others, but no doubt about those three.
    Where and how any or all of that crosses the line and becomes criminal, I can’t tell you, because IANAL.
    But there is nothing more obvious to me than the truth of the above.
    Hardly worth discussing at this point, but certainly worth remembering.
    Fncking crooks. All of them.

  587. If we aren’t left wing liberal 100% we are evil people that should be wiped from the face of the earth.
    I have to say that, although I am nothing like a left wing liberal, even 50% left alone 100%, nobody here has ever told me I was an evil person. Or that I should be wiped from the face of the earth. (Not even JDT, when I’ve pushed back on one of his rants.)

  588. If we aren’t left wing liberal 100% we are evil people that should be wiped from the face of the earth.
    I have to say that, although I am nothing like a left wing liberal, even 50% left alone 100%, nobody here has ever told me I was an evil person. Or that I should be wiped from the face of the earth. (Not even JDT, when I’ve pushed back on one of his rants.)

  589. anarchists is pretty fucking far from the left.
    Indeed, anarchists could easily be seen as a (not even necessarily exceptionally extreme) variety of libertarians.

  590. anarchists is pretty fucking far from the left.
    Indeed, anarchists could easily be seen as a (not even necessarily exceptionally extreme) variety of libertarians.

  591. People in Trump’s campaign coordinated their efforts with the efforts of Russian nationals to help Trump’s campaign, and hinder Clinton’s.
    Not just “Russian nationals” but, according to the Senate report, a Russian intelligence officer. Which is a whole different level of bad. IMHO

  592. People in Trump’s campaign coordinated their efforts with the efforts of Russian nationals to help Trump’s campaign, and hinder Clinton’s.
    Not just “Russian nationals” but, according to the Senate report, a Russian intelligence officer. Which is a whole different level of bad. IMHO

  593. Which is a whole different level of bad. IMHO
    Your humble opinion is correct. The difference between colluding with a Russian national, as opposed to a Russian intelligence officer, is that the latter almost certainly would count as treason.

  594. Which is a whole different level of bad. IMHO
    Your humble opinion is correct. The difference between colluding with a Russian national, as opposed to a Russian intelligence officer, is that the latter almost certainly would count as treason.

  595. “or any other “c” word you can think of.”
    Conservatives have larger vocabularies than liberals.
    Clinton, commie, collectivist, Chinese, that other word.
    I think a good case can be made that Trump and his entire flooded zone of as@holes are anarchists.
    Radical conservative deregulation is anarchy.
    Radical conservative withdrawals from a broad range of international treaties and trade relationships is imposed anarchy.
    The “disruption” conservatives so proudly encourage imposes anarchy on the rest of us in the interests of imposing their malign order.
    They use every authoritarian measure to maintain the “order” of their imposed anarchy.
    Steve Bannon is a proclaimed anarchist.
    Antifa breaking windows and committing arson is anarchy.
    Law enforcement killing unarmed civilians and beating up and teargassing peaceful demonstrators INSTEAD of arresting Antifa actors is anarchy.
    The demonstrations in DC’s Lafayette Square were peaceful and orderly, by all accounts, including those of National Guardsman who were ordered to commit anarchic government violence against the demonstrators and then spoke out against it.
    It wasn’t until the Attorney General of the United States and the top Armed Forces General made their appearances that evening to order anarchy with government authoritarian force, that anarchy broke out in order to make way for our gibbering, corrupt Anarchist-in-Chief to hold a Bible in an anarchic manner, upside down, which is the position he has put everything he touches with his anarchic hands.
    The zone is flooded and anarchy is loosed.
    Place Antifa and the conservative movement in the zone.
    Then nuke the zone.

  596. “or any other “c” word you can think of.”
    Conservatives have larger vocabularies than liberals.
    Clinton, commie, collectivist, Chinese, that other word.
    I think a good case can be made that Trump and his entire flooded zone of as@holes are anarchists.
    Radical conservative deregulation is anarchy.
    Radical conservative withdrawals from a broad range of international treaties and trade relationships is imposed anarchy.
    The “disruption” conservatives so proudly encourage imposes anarchy on the rest of us in the interests of imposing their malign order.
    They use every authoritarian measure to maintain the “order” of their imposed anarchy.
    Steve Bannon is a proclaimed anarchist.
    Antifa breaking windows and committing arson is anarchy.
    Law enforcement killing unarmed civilians and beating up and teargassing peaceful demonstrators INSTEAD of arresting Antifa actors is anarchy.
    The demonstrations in DC’s Lafayette Square were peaceful and orderly, by all accounts, including those of National Guardsman who were ordered to commit anarchic government violence against the demonstrators and then spoke out against it.
    It wasn’t until the Attorney General of the United States and the top Armed Forces General made their appearances that evening to order anarchy with government authoritarian force, that anarchy broke out in order to make way for our gibbering, corrupt Anarchist-in-Chief to hold a Bible in an anarchic manner, upside down, which is the position he has put everything he touches with his anarchic hands.
    The zone is flooded and anarchy is loosed.
    Place Antifa and the conservative movement in the zone.
    Then nuke the zone.

  597. The way wj feels about the Republican brand, I feel about anarchism. Anarchism should be a term associated with a political philosophy that emphasizes self organization in order to avoid coercive hierarchies. Shelly’s use of the term highlighted non-violent resistance. Proudhon emphasized order without power and Kropotkin talked about voluntary associations and self organization. A quick tour of the wikipedia gives some background
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
    The particular flavor that I prefer is anarcho-syndicalism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
    which is associated with IWW (the Wobblies, yay!) industrial unionism and workplace democracy.
    While there are connections to libertarian ideas, there are also links to communism and other philosophies of the left, and anarchism stands in opposition to nationalism and capitalism. Chomsky, for whom I don’t hold an immense brief in linguistic theory, identifies with anarcho-syndicalism, and the science fiction readers here will know that Ursula LeGuin sketched out a fictional anarchic society in her novel The Dispossessed.
    Unfortunately, bomb-throwing and the acts of agent-provocateurs ended up having people use the term anarchism as meaning unfocussed violence and mayhem, so I just sigh when the word comes up and think ‘this is why we can’t have nice things’…

  598. The way wj feels about the Republican brand, I feel about anarchism. Anarchism should be a term associated with a political philosophy that emphasizes self organization in order to avoid coercive hierarchies. Shelly’s use of the term highlighted non-violent resistance. Proudhon emphasized order without power and Kropotkin talked about voluntary associations and self organization. A quick tour of the wikipedia gives some background
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
    The particular flavor that I prefer is anarcho-syndicalism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
    which is associated with IWW (the Wobblies, yay!) industrial unionism and workplace democracy.
    While there are connections to libertarian ideas, there are also links to communism and other philosophies of the left, and anarchism stands in opposition to nationalism and capitalism. Chomsky, for whom I don’t hold an immense brief in linguistic theory, identifies with anarcho-syndicalism, and the science fiction readers here will know that Ursula LeGuin sketched out a fictional anarchic society in her novel The Dispossessed.
    Unfortunately, bomb-throwing and the acts of agent-provocateurs ended up having people use the term anarchism as meaning unfocussed violence and mayhem, so I just sigh when the word comes up and think ‘this is why we can’t have nice things’…

  599. There was a suggestion from nous that rioting might be an appropriate form of civil disobedience, in the face of an unresponsive and unrepresentative federal government.
    …and I feel very ambivalent about the word “appropriate” in that sentence. It is a terrible thing to reach a point where it might be appropriate.
    Two other things: any calculus of violence that does not include police violence in the face of protests against police violence as violence is blind in one eye. (Wasn’t that an involved sentence).
    Secondly, my GOP relatives in CO are complaining loudly that the governor (sexual invert that he is) allowed the protesters to do a million dollars of damage to the capital and that isn’t any sort of leadership.
    Rioters did $1M of damage to the Lower Downtown last time the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Guess what? No teargas. No pepper balls. No flashbangs. GOP groused that drunk people were being idiots and moved on.
    Final thing. At the heart of my GOP relatives’ handwringing over the capital there is coordination with a “Constitutional Sheriff” who has designs on state office. They aren’t going away just because they lose the presidency.

  600. There was a suggestion from nous that rioting might be an appropriate form of civil disobedience, in the face of an unresponsive and unrepresentative federal government.
    …and I feel very ambivalent about the word “appropriate” in that sentence. It is a terrible thing to reach a point where it might be appropriate.
    Two other things: any calculus of violence that does not include police violence in the face of protests against police violence as violence is blind in one eye. (Wasn’t that an involved sentence).
    Secondly, my GOP relatives in CO are complaining loudly that the governor (sexual invert that he is) allowed the protesters to do a million dollars of damage to the capital and that isn’t any sort of leadership.
    Rioters did $1M of damage to the Lower Downtown last time the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Guess what? No teargas. No pepper balls. No flashbangs. GOP groused that drunk people were being idiots and moved on.
    Final thing. At the heart of my GOP relatives’ handwringing over the capital there is coordination with a “Constitutional Sheriff” who has designs on state office. They aren’t going away just because they lose the presidency.

  601. I feel very ambivalent about the word “appropriate” in that sentence.
    nous, my apologies for mischaracterizing your earlier statement. thank you for expanding on your thoughts here.
    the question of when violence is justifiable is a really difficult one. you could simplify the discussion by just saying “never” but I don’t think that’s accurate. it’s certainly not consistent with our own history.
    different people are going to draw the line in different places.
    for me, personally, as long as people have some kind of lever over the conditions they live under, and those conditions are not literally harmful or threatening, then I don’t see a justification.
    whether that describes life for everybody in this country or not, is just not a question I can answer.
    in general, I think non-violent means have been more successful in this country than violent ones. mostly that has involved absorbing the violence of other people, so it can be a big ask. but overall, it seem to be the more successful path, in this country.
    what this country looks like after November, remains to be seen.

  602. I feel very ambivalent about the word “appropriate” in that sentence.
    nous, my apologies for mischaracterizing your earlier statement. thank you for expanding on your thoughts here.
    the question of when violence is justifiable is a really difficult one. you could simplify the discussion by just saying “never” but I don’t think that’s accurate. it’s certainly not consistent with our own history.
    different people are going to draw the line in different places.
    for me, personally, as long as people have some kind of lever over the conditions they live under, and those conditions are not literally harmful or threatening, then I don’t see a justification.
    whether that describes life for everybody in this country or not, is just not a question I can answer.
    in general, I think non-violent means have been more successful in this country than violent ones. mostly that has involved absorbing the violence of other people, so it can be a big ask. but overall, it seem to be the more successful path, in this country.
    what this country looks like after November, remains to be seen.

  603. I seem to have a lot of time on my hands today.
    the institutions of our government will survive this just fine.
    If what we see now is what “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” looks like, then I’d say we’re in red alert territory.
    Optimism is nice. Reality is mandatory.

  604. I seem to have a lot of time on my hands today.
    the institutions of our government will survive this just fine.
    If what we see now is what “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” looks like, then I’d say we’re in red alert territory.
    Optimism is nice. Reality is mandatory.

  605. Indeed, anarchists could easily be seen as a (not even necessarily exceptionally extreme) variety of libertarians.
    Violent ones wouldn’t be libertarians.

  606. Indeed, anarchists could easily be seen as a (not even necessarily exceptionally extreme) variety of libertarians.
    Violent ones wouldn’t be libertarians.

  607. If what we see now is what “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” looks like, then I’d say we’re in red alert territory.
    A truer word was never spoke.

  608. If what we see now is what “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” looks like, then I’d say we’re in red alert territory.
    A truer word was never spoke.

  609. While there are connections to libertarian ideas, there are also links to communism and other philosophies of the left, and anarchism stands in opposition to nationalism and capitalism.
    There’s anarcho-capitalism.

  610. While there are connections to libertarian ideas, there are also links to communism and other philosophies of the left, and anarchism stands in opposition to nationalism and capitalism.
    There’s anarcho-capitalism.

  611. Voting by mail, particularly during a pandemic, is a peaceful means of exercising political power. But Marty (and many others outside this little blog community) seems to want to take that away over hypothetical fraud, while ignoring empirical evidence to the contrary, and also while complaining about political violence (some of which is imaginary). It’s neat trick of logic.

  612. Voting by mail, particularly during a pandemic, is a peaceful means of exercising political power. But Marty (and many others outside this little blog community) seems to want to take that away over hypothetical fraud, while ignoring empirical evidence to the contrary, and also while complaining about political violence (some of which is imaginary). It’s neat trick of logic.

  613. I, for one, think it’s absolutely DEPLORABLE how far-left people dressed up as Federal Law Enforcement without insignia, and abducted and assaulted peaceful protesters and random bystanders.

  614. I, for one, think it’s absolutely DEPLORABLE how far-left people dressed up as Federal Law Enforcement without insignia, and abducted and assaulted peaceful protesters and random bystanders.

  615. russell – no apology necessary. I would not say that you mischaracterized the argument. I’m just noting that rioting, like war, is a sort of “politics by other means,” but, like war, is not always a productive means and that it always comes with a cost (which is why I won’t give it blanket endorsement).
    If the cost of the status quo is heavier to the aggrieved than the cost of the violence and its inevitable response, then rioting becomes an alternative.
    if the cost of putting down the riots to maintain order becomes heavier than the benefit of maintaining the status quo for those opposing change, then change becomes an alternative.

  616. russell – no apology necessary. I would not say that you mischaracterized the argument. I’m just noting that rioting, like war, is a sort of “politics by other means,” but, like war, is not always a productive means and that it always comes with a cost (which is why I won’t give it blanket endorsement).
    If the cost of the status quo is heavier to the aggrieved than the cost of the violence and its inevitable response, then rioting becomes an alternative.
    if the cost of putting down the riots to maintain order becomes heavier than the benefit of maintaining the status quo for those opposing change, then change becomes an alternative.

  617. As for CharlesWT anarcho-capitalism and non-violence, those two things are not essentially linked. Medieval Iceland often gets cited as a historical example, but the proto-anarcho-capitalism of the Thing existed alongside a long tradition of bloodfeuds that wiped out entire families.
    Speaking of which, Icelandic literature is a good place to think through the arguments that Piven and Cloward make for social welfare and civil unrest. Gísla Saga is a good one for working through this.

  618. As for CharlesWT anarcho-capitalism and non-violence, those two things are not essentially linked. Medieval Iceland often gets cited as a historical example, but the proto-anarcho-capitalism of the Thing existed alongside a long tradition of bloodfeuds that wiped out entire families.
    Speaking of which, Icelandic literature is a good place to think through the arguments that Piven and Cloward make for social welfare and civil unrest. Gísla Saga is a good one for working through this.

  621. Violent ones wouldn’t be libertarians.
    Charles, are you trying to claim that libertarians are inherently non-violent? Because the number of libertarians who have staged confrontations with government folks just doing their job to enforce the law, while waving heavy weapons, suggests otherwise.

  622. Violent ones wouldn’t be libertarians.
    Charles, are you trying to claim that libertarians are inherently non-violent? Because the number of libertarians who have staged confrontations with government folks just doing their job to enforce the law, while waving heavy weapons, suggests otherwise.

  625. When that defense is justified is the question. It’s like George Zimmerman “standing his ground” or what happens when people “resist arrest.” Hell, Timothy McVeigh may have believed that he was defending himself, others, his property, or others’ property. Draw your lines into a fig leaf.

  626. When that defense is justified is the question. It’s like George Zimmerman “standing his ground” or what happens when people “resist arrest.” Hell, Timothy McVeigh may have believed that he was defending himself, others, his property, or others’ property. Draw your lines into a fig leaf.

  627. imma go out on a limb and assert that very few people initiate violence without thinking that they’re righteously defending persons and property. and those few who do are most likely mentally ill.
    the problem is that what’s righteous for you isn’t necessarily righteous to anyone else.

  628. imma go out on a limb and assert that very few people initiate violence without thinking that they’re righteously defending persons and property. and those few who do are most likely mentally ill.
    the problem is that what’s righteous for you isn’t necessarily righteous to anyone else.

  629. Charles, I can relate, since I have often argued that the reactionaries who are so prominent in our political system are not really conservatives. No matter what they themselves claim. But I, and you, must acknowledge that reality that the vast majority of the population doesn’t use our definition — however correct we may be.

  630. Charles, I can relate, since I have often argued that the reactionaries who are so prominent in our political system are not really conservatives. No matter what they themselves claim. But I, and you, must acknowledge that reality that the vast majority of the population doesn’t use our definition — however correct we may be.

  633. I appear to have lost two duplicate posts about a Haaretz op ed to the spam filter. The op-ed is “Agitators, infiltrators, white supremacists and civil war accelerationists: How America’s far right vigilantes and militias are arming and organizing to counter a potential ‘Democratic coup'”
    Can’t seem to post the link without running afoul of the spam trap.
    There’s a lot of info in the op-ed as well. It’s not just a think piece.
    wj: Spam liberation accomplished.

  634. I appear to have lost two duplicate posts about a Haaretz op ed to the spam filter. The op-ed is “Agitators, infiltrators, white supremacists and civil war accelerationists: How America’s far right vigilantes and militias are arming and organizing to counter a potential ‘Democratic coup'”
    Can’t seem to post the link without running afoul of the spam trap.
    There’s a lot of info in the op-ed as well. It’s not just a think piece.
    wj: Spam liberation accomplished.

  635. “But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.”
    We haven’t yet had the savage killing violence required in any polity in response to the LAST election stolen by Trump and his trump-branded traitorous Republican Party:
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/19/the-real-takeaway-from-the-senate-select-committee-on-intelligences-bipartisan-report-on-russias-active-measures-campaign-and-interference-in-the-2016-election-they-all-knew-before-they-voted-to
    We waited to see.
    Now …. we see.
    High-powered gun sights purportedly add acuity to reclaimed vision.
    All conservatives/republicans have the “T” for Trump brand sizzled into their asses.
    Acceptable, never.
    Understanding, nah.
    I don’t find the violence of the American Revolution and the Civil War either.
    Like a cold-blooded mother-effing conservative, I find that violence and the violence to come necessary.

  636. “But there is, even beyond JT, a thread that violence will be the outcome of a Trump win and that would be understandable if not acceptable.”
    We haven’t yet had the savage killing violence required in any polity in response to the LAST election stolen by Trump and his trump-branded traitorous Republican Party:
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/19/the-real-takeaway-from-the-senate-select-committee-on-intelligences-bipartisan-report-on-russias-active-measures-campaign-and-interference-in-the-2016-election-they-all-knew-before-they-voted-to
    We waited to see.
    Now …. we see.
    High-powered gun sights purportedly add acuity to reclaimed vision.
    All conservatives/republicans have the “T” for Trump brand sizzled into their asses.
    Acceptable, never.
    Understanding, nah.
    I don’t find the violence of the American Revolution and the Civil War either.
    Like a cold-blooded mother-effing conservative, I find that violence and the violence to come necessary.

  637. There had never been a Trump win.
    And, spare the good people here comparison with me.
    They don’t like it either.

  638. There had never been a Trump win.
    And, spare the good people here comparison with me.
    They don’t like it either.

  639. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pelosi-dejoy-mailboxes-sorting-usps
    It’s worse than that. Over 600 sorting machines have been removed from offices across the country and won’t be replaced before the election and then they promise to remove many more the day after.
    Netflix movies are held up. Medical prescriptions are not arriving, under efficient subhuman republican rule.
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/19/you-wouldnt-even-be-yourself-if-you-werent-telling-a-lie-2/
    Deliver the litter, the sooner the better, or we’ll loose the dogs of savage hell on the perpetrators:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Kk5IG2b8E
    Peace and Love .. later.

  640. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pelosi-dejoy-mailboxes-sorting-usps
    It’s worse than that. Over 600 sorting machines have been removed from offices across the country and won’t be replaced before the election and then they promise to remove many more the day after.
    Netflix movies are held up. Medical prescriptions are not arriving, under efficient subhuman republican rule.
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/19/you-wouldnt-even-be-yourself-if-you-werent-telling-a-lie-2/
    Deliver the litter, the sooner the better, or we’ll loose the dogs of savage hell on the perpetrators:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Kk5IG2b8E
    Peace and Love .. later.

  641. An even-handed look at what’s up with the USPS.
    “Jane, Dara, and Matt on the health and history of the postal service, the political games being played, and what it means for November’s election.”
    The Weeds: WTF is happening with USPS (Podcast)

  642. An even-handed look at what’s up with the USPS.
    “Jane, Dara, and Matt on the health and history of the postal service, the political games being played, and what it means for November’s election.”
    The Weeds: WTF is happening with USPS (Podcast)

  643. nous, good Haaretz piece. I was struck by this, among much else, in light of our recent discussion with Marty about the violence in Portland (and of course there is more about that in the piece itself):
    Most recently, and a drastic example, was a pipe bomb attack on protesters in Portland, Oregon: the perpetrator has been identified as an ex-Navy SEAL with a history of posting antisemitic Nazi propaganda and Soros conspiracy theories on social media.

  644. nous, good Haaretz piece. I was struck by this, among much else, in light of our recent discussion with Marty about the violence in Portland (and of course there is more about that in the piece itself):
    Most recently, and a drastic example, was a pipe bomb attack on protesters in Portland, Oregon: the perpetrator has been identified as an ex-Navy SEAL with a history of posting antisemitic Nazi propaganda and Soros conspiracy theories on social media.

  645. Pure, delighted EVIL telling us who HE and HIS are going to murder:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/trump-am-i-currently-saving-america-from-being-taken-over-by-a-satanic-pedophiliac-cult-maybe
    For the record, I would never eat a republican on account of the predatory brain worms feeding in their blood, and their children are so ugly and Covid-diseased that the thought of raping them has never crossed my mind.
    Raising them as RINOs in decent families and raising their taxes, yes, that’s occurred to me, but they’d probably rather be raped and eaten on account of the way they are being raised as gibbering jackels.
    Can I believe a President of what used to be referred to as the United States of America answered that question in the way he did?
    I guess I have to.

  646. Pure, delighted EVIL telling us who HE and HIS are going to murder:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/trump-am-i-currently-saving-america-from-being-taken-over-by-a-satanic-pedophiliac-cult-maybe
    For the record, I would never eat a republican on account of the predatory brain worms feeding in their blood, and their children are so ugly and Covid-diseased that the thought of raping them has never crossed my mind.
    Raising them as RINOs in decent families and raising their taxes, yes, that’s occurred to me, but they’d probably rather be raped and eaten on account of the way they are being raised as gibbering jackels.
    Can I believe a President of what used to be referred to as the United States of America answered that question in the way he did?
    I guess I have to.

  647. right wing nutjobs present the greatest threat of political violence in the US. Now, and for some years.
    The freaking FBI says so. I take their word for it.
    I’ve already yelled at Marty enough for one day, so whatever. But you’re not going to persuade him, or basically anyone who thinks like him, of the plain truth of it. He doesn’t, and they don’t, want to hear it.
    This:

    But the Proud Boys haven’t shown up anyplace there werent already vi[lent protests

    is just f***ing wrong. Plainly and factually wrong. The Proud Boys show up places and start fights. It’s what they do. It’s how they earn their little Proud Boy merit badges. They’re brownshirts.
    People who engage in political dialog at all from a left-of-Goldwater point of view have all had the experience, daily at times, over the last couple of decades of listening to their counter-parties going on at length about how conservatives have all the guns and when the shit hits the fan all the liberals are either going to cry like babies or get shot. Or maybe both.
    We don’t get much of it here, at least not anymore, because folks like that weren’t made to feel at home. But you can find that quality of conversation anytime you like, 24/7.
    Conservatives need to clean their own damned house before they come here giving any of us lectures about left-wing violence.

  648. right wing nutjobs present the greatest threat of political violence in the US. Now, and for some years.
    The freaking FBI says so. I take their word for it.
    I’ve already yelled at Marty enough for one day, so whatever. But you’re not going to persuade him, or basically anyone who thinks like him, of the plain truth of it. He doesn’t, and they don’t, want to hear it.
    This:

    But the Proud Boys haven’t shown up anyplace there werent already vi[lent protests

    is just f***ing wrong. Plainly and factually wrong. The Proud Boys show up places and start fights. It’s what they do. It’s how they earn their little Proud Boy merit badges. They’re brownshirts.
    People who engage in political dialog at all from a left-of-Goldwater point of view have all had the experience, daily at times, over the last couple of decades of listening to their counter-parties going on at length about how conservatives have all the guns and when the shit hits the fan all the liberals are either going to cry like babies or get shot. Or maybe both.
    We don’t get much of it here, at least not anymore, because folks like that weren’t made to feel at home. But you can find that quality of conversation anytime you like, 24/7.
    Conservatives need to clean their own damned house before they come here giving any of us lectures about left-wing violence.

  649. If anyone wants to watch something relevant but distracting, please start the series “A French Village.” It’s a fictional account of the years of German occupation, and the rise of the Resistance.
    It’s available a lot of places: MHZ, I think, for one, but Hulu, Amazon Prime (incomplete there), and other services. Well worth it, and maybe also worth a discussion here.

  650. If anyone wants to watch something relevant but distracting, please start the series “A French Village.” It’s a fictional account of the years of German occupation, and the rise of the Resistance.
    It’s available a lot of places: MHZ, I think, for one, but Hulu, Amazon Prime (incomplete there), and other services. Well worth it, and maybe also worth a discussion here.

  651. Something Marty won’t have seen, and will never fold into his view of what’s happening:

    Seattle police on Thursday retracted an earlier claim that protesters camped at what has been dubbed “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” were extorting nearby businesses, according to The Seattle Times.
    Police chief Carmen Best walked back prior statements made by her own department, which have since circulated widely and attracted condemnation from conservative critics of the protesters.
    At a Wednesday news conference, Assistant Seattle Police Chief Deanna Nollette had told reporters: “We’ve heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area. This is the crime of extortion,” Fox News reported.
    The report became a headline item in several other right-leaning news and commentary pieces, including on the New York Post, PJ Media, and One America News Network.
    But later on Thursday, Best emphasized those claims effectively only have the status of rumor, and that nobody had formally reported anything to the police.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-retract-claims-that-seattles-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-protesters-tried-to-extort-local-businesses/ar-BB15nDov

  652. Something Marty won’t have seen, and will never fold into his view of what’s happening:

    Seattle police on Thursday retracted an earlier claim that protesters camped at what has been dubbed “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” were extorting nearby businesses, according to The Seattle Times.
    Police chief Carmen Best walked back prior statements made by her own department, which have since circulated widely and attracted condemnation from conservative critics of the protesters.
    At a Wednesday news conference, Assistant Seattle Police Chief Deanna Nollette had told reporters: “We’ve heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area. This is the crime of extortion,” Fox News reported.
    The report became a headline item in several other right-leaning news and commentary pieces, including on the New York Post, PJ Media, and One America News Network.
    But later on Thursday, Best emphasized those claims effectively only have the status of rumor, and that nobody had formally reported anything to the police.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-retract-claims-that-seattles-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-protesters-tried-to-extort-local-businesses/ar-BB15nDov

  657. Brief note on the Democratic convention:
    I think I’m the most blatantly partisan Democrat here. I’m wearing the flag tonight.
    Thank y’all for acknowledging that I’m a Democrat, and have been one since I’ve been here, for my entire life, and maybe as a legacy. Thanks, Dad and Mom, for indoctrinating me to try harder to be a better democrat, Democrat, and liberal. Those words are mine.

  658. Brief note on the Democratic convention:
    I think I’m the most blatantly partisan Democrat here. I’m wearing the flag tonight.
    Thank y’all for acknowledging that I’m a Democrat, and have been one since I’ve been here, for my entire life, and maybe as a legacy. Thanks, Dad and Mom, for indoctrinating me to try harder to be a better democrat, Democrat, and liberal. Those words are mine.

  659. More dangerous to the Republic than the Proud Boys and company, the latter of whom will at least make themselves available to be gunned down in broad daylight when THEY start the violence:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/senate-made-criminal-referral-trump-jr-bannon-kushner-two-others-n1237155
    These big boys are scurrying rat f*cking traitors who will have to be hunted down to the ends of the Earth at great expense to the raised taxes of republican scum throughout the country who will be sent the bill for the noble work of patriots.
    Bringing QAnon to certain fatal justice will take some specialized expertise. I’m sure someone in the dreaded and maligned deep state knows who and where they are.
    And then there is the matter of the awful public choreographed pageantry of Trump’s and Pence’s and their buttlickers’ pathetic howling exits from this world.

  660. More dangerous to the Republic than the Proud Boys and company, the latter of whom will at least make themselves available to be gunned down in broad daylight when THEY start the violence:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/senate-made-criminal-referral-trump-jr-bannon-kushner-two-others-n1237155
    These big boys are scurrying rat f*cking traitors who will have to be hunted down to the ends of the Earth at great expense to the raised taxes of republican scum throughout the country who will be sent the bill for the noble work of patriots.
    Bringing QAnon to certain fatal justice will take some specialized expertise. I’m sure someone in the dreaded and maligned deep state knows who and where they are.
    And then there is the matter of the awful public choreographed pageantry of Trump’s and Pence’s and their buttlickers’ pathetic howling exits from this world.

  661. The most notable thing about the Proud Boys is they have very few members for the publicity they get. They had a big DC rally, 250 people.
    I’m not worried about the rising tide of far right hate groups, the cant recruit enough members to be any real danger. Left wing hate groups fill the streets of cities. They scare me.

  662. The most notable thing about the Proud Boys is they have very few members for the publicity they get. They had a big DC rally, 250 people.
    I’m not worried about the rising tide of far right hate groups, the cant recruit enough members to be any real danger. Left wing hate groups fill the streets of cities. They scare me.

  665. Hate…..such a terrible word. There are many brands of political “extremism” (cf. George Washington, traitor to the Crown), but hate, well hate is a particularly prominent attribute of right wing extremism….hatred of Jews. Hatred of blacks. Hatred of “Mexcans”. It is the lifeblood of reactionary politics, the idea of “the other”.

  666. Hate…..such a terrible word. There are many brands of political “extremism” (cf. George Washington, traitor to the Crown), but hate, well hate is a particularly prominent attribute of right wing extremism….hatred of Jews. Hatred of blacks. Hatred of “Mexcans”. It is the lifeblood of reactionary politics, the idea of “the other”.

  667. Just watched Barack Obama’s really excellent speech. God, I hope enough previously non-voting Americans did…

  668. Just watched Barack Obama’s really excellent speech. God, I hope enough previously non-voting Americans did…

  669. Three, if you count Newt Gingrich.
    Four, if you count Tom Delay.
    Five, if you count Dick Armey.
    Six, if you count Rush Limbaugh and a host of murderous conservative hit men talk jocks.
    Seven, if you count Pat Buchanan.
    Eight and counting, if you count the entire leadership and membership of the NRA, among whom was Timothy McVeigh.
    As I’ve noted before, the husband of one my best friends and a federal employee was murdered by McVeigh and company on that day.
    The building in Denver that my former wife worked in at the time of the bombing, and that I had worked in years earlier, was cased by McVeigh and company as a potential target as well.
    The payback coming to the conservative movement goes much, much further back than whatever outrage Trump committed this morning on the twatting machine.
    To quote my late father-in-law when he described his “epiphany” while standing in the fuselage of a World War II bomber over France when he was a callow 18 years old, on maybe his third mission, and a hot shard of Nazi metal opened up a hole at his feet and passed within inches of his testicles and his nose before exiting the top of the plane, “Those f*ckers are trying to kill me!”

  670. Three, if you count Newt Gingrich.
    Four, if you count Tom Delay.
    Five, if you count Dick Armey.
    Six, if you count Rush Limbaugh and a host of murderous conservative hit men talk jocks.
    Seven, if you count Pat Buchanan.
    Eight and counting, if you count the entire leadership and membership of the NRA, among whom was Timothy McVeigh.
    As I’ve noted before, the husband of one my best friends and a federal employee was murdered by McVeigh and company on that day.
    The building in Denver that my former wife worked in at the time of the bombing, and that I had worked in years earlier, was cased by McVeigh and company as a potential target as well.
    The payback coming to the conservative movement goes much, much further back than whatever outrage Trump committed this morning on the twatting machine.
    To quote my late father-in-law when he described his “epiphany” while standing in the fuselage of a World War II bomber over France when he was a callow 18 years old, on maybe his third mission, and a hot shard of Nazi metal opened up a hole at his feet and passed within inches of his testicles and his nose before exiting the top of the plane, “Those f*ckers are trying to kill me!”

  673. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/former-trump-advisor-steve-bannon-arrested-on-charges-of-defrauding-donors-in-fundraising-scheme.html
    I’m a little less scared now that terrorist Bannon is temporarily not filling the streets, well, until he is pardoned by Beelzebub.
    As a law and order Democrat, I favor the death penalty for him.
    It can be done the right way, or it can be done the wrong way.
    Too bad for him that the rule of law won’t be restored for some time.

  674. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/former-trump-advisor-steve-bannon-arrested-on-charges-of-defrauding-donors-in-fundraising-scheme.html
    I’m a little less scared now that terrorist Bannon is temporarily not filling the streets, well, until he is pardoned by Beelzebub.
    As a law and order Democrat, I favor the death penalty for him.
    It can be done the right way, or it can be done the wrong way.
    Too bad for him that the rule of law won’t be restored for some time.

  675. JDT, about those criminal referals in your 7:16 post. Let’s hope Barr does his usual job and rules it should simply be ignored. Because a) that ups the odds that Trump won’t bestir himself to issue them all preemptive pardons on his way out the door. And b) a new administration is then free to take up the requested investigation and file charges.

  676. JDT, about those criminal referals in your 7:16 post. Let’s hope Barr does his usual job and rules it should simply be ignored. Because a) that ups the odds that Trump won’t bestir himself to issue them all preemptive pardons on his way out the door. And b) a new administration is then free to take up the requested investigation and file charges.

  677. I’m a little less scared now that terrorist Bannon is temporarily not filling the streets
    Actually, you should be celebrating Bannon et al. on this. Far better they just stole the donated money than that it got spent on actual wall construction. With all the environmental damage that uselessness would entail.

  678. I’m a little less scared now that terrorist Bannon is temporarily not filling the streets
    Actually, you should be celebrating Bannon et al. on this. Far better they just stole the donated money than that it got spent on actual wall construction. With all the environmental damage that uselessness would entail.

  681. Hate…..such a terrible word.
    BLM – hate racism and getting shot.
    antifa – hate fascists.
    Portland anarchists – hate federal buildings, apparently.
    I’m not a racist and I’m gonna shoot anybody, I’m not a fascist, and I’m not a federal building. So I personally feel safe from that left-wing hate.
    If I had a business in some areas of Portland, or Seattle, or a handful of other places, I would probably worry about vandalism and looting. Not a trivial thing. But my understanding, from my limited exposure to folks who actually do have those things, is that they have mixed feelings about all of it. I’m happy to let them speak for themselves.
    The protests in some American cities have been profoundly disruptive, in some specific and fairly narrow areas of those cities. I’m happy to let the people who live in and govern those cities sort out how to handle that.
    People that hate other people because of their skin color, or their ethnic or national background, or their gender or sexual identity, or their religion or lack of same, are a different kettle of fish.
    People who consider themselves superior to other people on the basis of any of that, and think they are entitled to bully or exclude or deny the rights and standing of other people because of any of that, are incompatible with a free and open society. Their values are incompatible with anything this nation and society claims to stand for.
    I don’t support vandalism and looting. I don’t support disruptive public actions for their own sake. I think there are profound problems with policing in this country, but I think the “all cops are bad” attitude displayed by many in the anarchist community is foolish and counter-productive.
    All of that said, I see a distinction between people who hate other people for their essential natures, and people who hate people who are in the first category.
    I’m not in either category, but I’m sympathetic to the latter. I’m not, to say the least, sympathetic to the former.
    All kinds of hate out there. Some is earned.

  682. Hate…..such a terrible word.
    BLM – hate racism and getting shot.
    antifa – hate fascists.
    Portland anarchists – hate federal buildings, apparently.
    I’m not a racist and I’m gonna shoot anybody, I’m not a fascist, and I’m not a federal building. So I personally feel safe from that left-wing hate.
    If I had a business in some areas of Portland, or Seattle, or a handful of other places, I would probably worry about vandalism and looting. Not a trivial thing. But my understanding, from my limited exposure to folks who actually do have those things, is that they have mixed feelings about all of it. I’m happy to let them speak for themselves.
    The protests in some American cities have been profoundly disruptive, in some specific and fairly narrow areas of those cities. I’m happy to let the people who live in and govern those cities sort out how to handle that.
    People that hate other people because of their skin color, or their ethnic or national background, or their gender or sexual identity, or their religion or lack of same, are a different kettle of fish.
    People who consider themselves superior to other people on the basis of any of that, and think they are entitled to bully or exclude or deny the rights and standing of other people because of any of that, are incompatible with a free and open society. Their values are incompatible with anything this nation and society claims to stand for.
    I don’t support vandalism and looting. I don’t support disruptive public actions for their own sake. I think there are profound problems with policing in this country, but I think the “all cops are bad” attitude displayed by many in the anarchist community is foolish and counter-productive.
    All of that said, I see a distinction between people who hate other people for their essential natures, and people who hate people who are in the first category.
    I’m not in either category, but I’m sympathetic to the latter. I’m not, to say the least, sympathetic to the former.
    All kinds of hate out there. Some is earned.

  689. …six weeks of escalating state violence against largely nonviolent demonstrators.
    It’s the macro version of this:
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/masai-ujiri-bodycam-footage-raptors-president-alameda-county-234734235.html

    The video shows Ujiri headed to the court to celebrate with players, his hand on an all-access pass that he appeared to be tucking into his jacket. It sounds like someone tells Ujiri to show the pass to Strickland, but before he can, Strickland appears to put a hand on Ujiri’s chest and shove him, telling him to “back the [expletive] up.”
    Ujiri says, “What are you pushing me for? I’m the president of the Raptors.”
    Strickland puts both hands in his chest and shoves him again. At that point, Ujiri does push Strickland back.

    Push someone until they push back, then you can say it was their fault. This is nothing new. In fact, I’d say it’s ancient.

  690. …six weeks of escalating state violence against largely nonviolent demonstrators.
    It’s the macro version of this:
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/masai-ujiri-bodycam-footage-raptors-president-alameda-county-234734235.html

    The video shows Ujiri headed to the court to celebrate with players, his hand on an all-access pass that he appeared to be tucking into his jacket. It sounds like someone tells Ujiri to show the pass to Strickland, but before he can, Strickland appears to put a hand on Ujiri’s chest and shove him, telling him to “back the [expletive] up.”
    Ujiri says, “What are you pushing me for? I’m the president of the Raptors.”
    Strickland puts both hands in his chest and shoves him again. At that point, Ujiri does push Strickland back.

    Push someone until they push back, then you can say it was their fault. This is nothing new. In fact, I’d say it’s ancient.

  693. Curt Schilling bums me out. He pitched for the ’93 Phillies team that went to the WS. They lost, but it was a great run, and I was 25 years old – the perfect age for all the revelry going on. Lenny Dykstra always seemed like a jerk, so no surprise or disappointment when he proved it beyond a doubt.
    Schilling was tough but affable, or so it seemed back then. He was downright heroic with the 2004 Red Sox. Now he’s dead to me.

  694. Curt Schilling bums me out. He pitched for the ’93 Phillies team that went to the WS. They lost, but it was a great run, and I was 25 years old – the perfect age for all the revelry going on. Lenny Dykstra always seemed like a jerk, so no surprise or disappointment when he proved it beyond a doubt.
    Schilling was tough but affable, or so it seemed back then. He was downright heroic with the 2004 Red Sox. Now he’s dead to me.

  699. Yeah, baseball is berry, berry good to even the shitheads:
    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/08/19/watch-thom-brennamans-apology-after-making-homophobic-slur-air/5613633002/
    As a man of faith, he says. No kidding.
    Like any crypto-Christian canceling employee of FOX, hateful conservative movement Tourette’s Syndrome can break out even during the play-by-play.
    They can’t help it.
    To not use language in a professional setting that they obviously use constantly in their private conversations would just be too politically correct.
    Rod Dreher uses the term Weimar Germany/America to express the same slur, while of course, musing about why he might have to vote again for Hitler, despite everything he knows about the latter.

  700. Yeah, baseball is berry, berry good to even the shitheads:
    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/08/19/watch-thom-brennamans-apology-after-making-homophobic-slur-air/5613633002/
    As a man of faith, he says. No kidding.
    Like any crypto-Christian canceling employee of FOX, hateful conservative movement Tourette’s Syndrome can break out even during the play-by-play.
    They can’t help it.
    To not use language in a professional setting that they obviously use constantly in their private conversations would just be too politically correct.
    Rod Dreher uses the term Weimar Germany/America to express the same slur, while of course, musing about why he might have to vote again for Hitler, despite everything he knows about the latter.

  703. I don’t know how he got through all of those Jackie Robinson anniversary baseball broadcasts without torpedoing his career long before this.
    He didn’t even manage to do a Santorum “the blahs”.
    The “fog” capitol of the world.
    The “faaa….ct” capitol of the world.
    The “faa…aaaaaa” a long, long way to run …. world.
    The fa… ahmmm .. cigarette .. that’s it … capitol of the world. Anyone got a match?
    Nope, enunciated just as clear as a bell.
    Like when Archie Bunker asked Sammy David Junior if he’d like cream or sugar in his EYE.

  704. I don’t know how he got through all of those Jackie Robinson anniversary baseball broadcasts without torpedoing his career long before this.
    He didn’t even manage to do a Santorum “the blahs”.
    The “fog” capitol of the world.
    The “faaa….ct” capitol of the world.
    The “faa…aaaaaa” a long, long way to run …. world.
    The fa… ahmmm .. cigarette .. that’s it … capitol of the world. Anyone got a match?
    Nope, enunciated just as clear as a bell.
    Like when Archie Bunker asked Sammy David Junior if he’d like cream or sugar in his EYE.

  709. one of the frigate capitals of the world!
    By the way, Bannon was nabbed by the Post Office.
    karma has a little-known wicked sense of humor.

  710. one of the frigate capitals of the world!
    By the way, Bannon was nabbed by the Post Office.
    karma has a little-known wicked sense of humor.

  711. And Bannon is getting prosecuted by the Southern District of New York. In spite of Trump/Barr putting in new management.
    But perhaps Trump didn’t actually know him, and he only counts as a disgruntled ex-employee….
    /sarcasm

  712. And Bannon is getting prosecuted by the Southern District of New York. In spite of Trump/Barr putting in new management.
    But perhaps Trump didn’t actually know him, and he only counts as a disgruntled ex-employee….
    /sarcasm

  713. If a) the Bannon indictment, and b) the Trump tax returns saga, are examples of “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” , and I guess against all odds they are, what is clear is that they will not survive just fine if Trump wins again. Bannon will be pardoned, if found guilty and if he has enough on Trump to be threatening, and the ongoing decimation of the various regional benches and prosecutorial offices will ensure that Trump is no longer inconvenienced by such legal outcomes,
    I think Kamala Harris is a good, sensible pick, but on the basis of her speech at the convention not much of an inspirational orator (delivery, not content). Hopefully who she is and what she’s done and is capable of will be more important than how she says what she says.

  714. If a) the Bannon indictment, and b) the Trump tax returns saga, are examples of “the institutions of our government surviving just fine” , and I guess against all odds they are, what is clear is that they will not survive just fine if Trump wins again. Bannon will be pardoned, if found guilty and if he has enough on Trump to be threatening, and the ongoing decimation of the various regional benches and prosecutorial offices will ensure that Trump is no longer inconvenienced by such legal outcomes,
    I think Kamala Harris is a good, sensible pick, but on the basis of her speech at the convention not much of an inspirational orator (delivery, not content). Hopefully who she is and what she’s done and is capable of will be more important than how she says what she says.

  717. I read it lj, I didn’t read anything that disputes what I said in the first place. Months of recurring violence against property and police. In every instance the police gave warnings. It couldn’t have been a clearer description.
    BTW, pointing out there were some peaceful protesters doesnt change any of the above.

  718. I read it lj, I didn’t read anything that disputes what I said in the first place. Months of recurring violence against property and police. In every instance the police gave warnings. It couldn’t have been a clearer description.
    BTW, pointing out there were some peaceful protesters doesnt change any of the above.

  721. …but on the basis of her speech at the convention not much of an inspirational orator (delivery, not content).
    It is hard to judge from a speech given to an empty room, though. I mean, Obama did pretty well, but he’s an exceptional speaker with more of that kind of experience (talking through a camera) after 8 years of being president. Getting those pauses for applause adds a lot, as does having to speak over ambient crowd noise. It’s tough to pull off if you’re not used to it.

  722. …but on the basis of her speech at the convention not much of an inspirational orator (delivery, not content).
    It is hard to judge from a speech given to an empty room, though. I mean, Obama did pretty well, but he’s an exceptional speaker with more of that kind of experience (talking through a camera) after 8 years of being president. Getting those pauses for applause adds a lot, as does having to speak over ambient crowd noise. It’s tough to pull off if you’re not used to it.

  723. i’ll be happy if she can get through two paragraphs without ridiculous nonsensical boasting or trying to gaslight us.
    anything beyond that is gravy.

  724. i’ll be happy if she can get through two paragraphs without ridiculous nonsensical boasting or trying to gaslight us.
    anything beyond that is gravy.

  725. That’s true, hsh. Although Michelle did rather brilliantly. To the extent that it matters (and let’s hope it doesn’t), we’ll hope for better as the fight goes on, and that her interactions with Pence tell the real story better.

  726. That’s true, hsh. Although Michelle did rather brilliantly. To the extent that it matters (and let’s hope it doesn’t), we’ll hope for better as the fight goes on, and that her interactions with Pence tell the real story better.

  729. Months of recurring violence against property and police. In every instance the police gave warnings.
    This seems pretty accurate, to me. The recurring violence here, with rare exceptions, is generally vandalism, throwing stuff at cops, spraying graffiti on public buildings, setting small fires, blocking traffic.
    I get that you find it disturbing. I find it disturbing, too.
    I also find it disturbing that there are highly organized bands of heavily armed Nazis and/or white nationalists, people who are committed to violence as a path, trying to spark a civil war. Literally. By attending otherwise peaceful demonstrations and starting fights and committing acts of vandalism and mayhem. Also, by killing cops. Also, by murdering people as those people attend religious services and generally go about their daily lives. Dozens of people, hundreds of people, murdered. Out of sheer hate for who they were.
    The latter concerns me far more than the former. You appear to see things the other way around.
    To each their own.

  730. Months of recurring violence against property and police. In every instance the police gave warnings.
    This seems pretty accurate, to me. The recurring violence here, with rare exceptions, is generally vandalism, throwing stuff at cops, spraying graffiti on public buildings, setting small fires, blocking traffic.
    I get that you find it disturbing. I find it disturbing, too.
    I also find it disturbing that there are highly organized bands of heavily armed Nazis and/or white nationalists, people who are committed to violence as a path, trying to spark a civil war. Literally. By attending otherwise peaceful demonstrations and starting fights and committing acts of vandalism and mayhem. Also, by killing cops. Also, by murdering people as those people attend religious services and generally go about their daily lives. Dozens of people, hundreds of people, murdered. Out of sheer hate for who they were.
    The latter concerns me far more than the former. You appear to see things the other way around.
    To each their own.

  735. Come to think of it, that is an excellent question.
    Maybe Corey Lewandowski? Never charged (as far as I know), just accused of manhandling a female reporter and then lying about it, with supporting video proof of the incident.

  736. Come to think of it, that is an excellent question.
    Maybe Corey Lewandowski? Never charged (as far as I know), just accused of manhandling a female reporter and then lying about it, with supporting video proof of the incident.

  737. Well, how about this?

    The centers helping child abuse victims have seen 40,000 fewer kids amid the pandemic.
    Child abuse reports began to plummet across the country — not because it wasn’t happening, but because teachers, doctors and others had fewer ways of catching it. Now, a new survey of children’s advocacy centers across the country offers some of the clearest data yet on the scope of this gap in child abuse reporting. The centers, which provide support for families and children as abuse cases move through the justice system, reported serving 40,000 fewer children nationwide between January and June of this year than the same period last year, from 192,367 children in 2019 down to 152,016 this year, a 21 percent drop, according to the National Children’s Alliance, an accrediting body for a network of 900 children’s advocacy centers.

    Expect a Trump statement (perhaps at the convention next week?) touting the drop in child abuse during his administration. From someone who opposes testing for ccovid-19 because it would shot more cases, expect nothing less.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/19/child-abuse-victims-plunge-pandemic/?itid=lk_inline_manual_78

  738. Well, how about this?

    The centers helping child abuse victims have seen 40,000 fewer kids amid the pandemic.
    Child abuse reports began to plummet across the country — not because it wasn’t happening, but because teachers, doctors and others had fewer ways of catching it. Now, a new survey of children’s advocacy centers across the country offers some of the clearest data yet on the scope of this gap in child abuse reporting. The centers, which provide support for families and children as abuse cases move through the justice system, reported serving 40,000 fewer children nationwide between January and June of this year than the same period last year, from 192,367 children in 2019 down to 152,016 this year, a 21 percent drop, according to the National Children’s Alliance, an accrediting body for a network of 900 children’s advocacy centers.

    Expect a Trump statement (perhaps at the convention next week?) touting the drop in child abuse during his administration. From someone who opposes testing for ccovid-19 because it would shot more cases, expect nothing less.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/19/child-abuse-victims-plunge-pandemic/?itid=lk_inline_manual_78

  739. any problem can be solved by ignoring it until the next guy has to deal with it.
    a classic Trumpian solution!

  740. any problem can be solved by ignoring it until the next guy has to deal with it.
    a classic Trumpian solution!

  741. loving this J Rubin piece.

    Seventh, Democrats have gone out of their way to show that they love America as it is now — not as it was whenever Trump thinks it was great. They embrace the diversity, the triumph of women, the technological innovation, the immigrant story and the notion that we reinvent America in each generation. They have embraced not only members of their own party but all Americans.
    Eighth, once upon a time Republicans resisted moral relativism and postmodern deconstructivism. Now it is Democrats who summon us to stick to the facts, debunk crackpot theories, demand we hold ourselves up to standards of decency and civility, and praise scientific inquiry. Conservatives used to understand that objective reality was itself a check on authoritarian government; now they simply invent conspiracies to justify power grabs.
    Ninth, the Democratic Party is now the party of family values. Democrats extol the Biden clan and its collective resilience. They bemoan the destruction of a family by overzealous and inhumane immigration enforcement. They are concerned with the anxiety of parents about their children’s schools and pay attention to the loss of loved ones who have been forced by the pandemic to die alone. Meanwhile, in the other party, a serial divorcé and philanderer rips children from their parents’ arms and waves off parental concerns over children heading back to school during a pandemic. The GOP cares no more for families than it does for the truth.

    DIAF GOP

  742. loving this J Rubin piece.

    Seventh, Democrats have gone out of their way to show that they love America as it is now — not as it was whenever Trump thinks it was great. They embrace the diversity, the triumph of women, the technological innovation, the immigrant story and the notion that we reinvent America in each generation. They have embraced not only members of their own party but all Americans.
    Eighth, once upon a time Republicans resisted moral relativism and postmodern deconstructivism. Now it is Democrats who summon us to stick to the facts, debunk crackpot theories, demand we hold ourselves up to standards of decency and civility, and praise scientific inquiry. Conservatives used to understand that objective reality was itself a check on authoritarian government; now they simply invent conspiracies to justify power grabs.
    Ninth, the Democratic Party is now the party of family values. Democrats extol the Biden clan and its collective resilience. They bemoan the destruction of a family by overzealous and inhumane immigration enforcement. They are concerned with the anxiety of parents about their children’s schools and pay attention to the loss of loved ones who have been forced by the pandemic to die alone. Meanwhile, in the other party, a serial divorcé and philanderer rips children from their parents’ arms and waves off parental concerns over children heading back to school during a pandemic. The GOP cares no more for families than it does for the truth.

    DIAF GOP

  747. A fustercluck with feathers, indeed.
    “Are those talons?” Napoleon Dynamite might well arsk.
    We may have reached beak Trump.
    Wattle we do?
    Flock if I know.

  748. A fustercluck with feathers, indeed.
    “Are those talons?” Napoleon Dynamite might well arsk.
    We may have reached beak Trump.
    Wattle we do?
    Flock if I know.

  749. Maybe ugh will hatch a theory, but we haven’t had a peep out of him in months.
    He should come out of his shell.

  750. Maybe ugh will hatch a theory, but we haven’t had a peep out of him in months.
    He should come out of his shell.

  751. The chickenhawks on the right will accuse the chickens of being actor provocateurs and like Joseph Welch did in 1963 regarding another plucked-over minority, accuse liberals of trying to create a fowl Soviet Chicken Republic right here in River City.

  752. The chickenhawks on the right will accuse the chickens of being actor provocateurs and like Joseph Welch did in 1963 regarding another plucked-over minority, accuse liberals of trying to create a fowl Soviet Chicken Republic right here in River City.

  753. You just know this failure by the Postal Service must be Obama’s fault somehow.
    My best guess: it’s because the Post Office was without any Board members when he left office. (Because McConnell wouldn’t approve anyone he nominated. But why confuse the issue with facts?)

  754. You just know this failure by the Postal Service must be Obama’s fault somehow.
    My best guess: it’s because the Post Office was without any Board members when he left office. (Because McConnell wouldn’t approve anyone he nominated. But why confuse the issue with facts?)

  755. Thanks for reading that Marty. I’d suggest that it’s on you to give a link to some information that supports what you think. Otherwise, folks like me are going to infer what you read and what you didn’t. For example, at the end of the Bellingcat piece, there is a discussion of the ‘pipebomb’ and some of the statements by Chad Wolfe. A brief excerpt:
    This is certainly very sneaky. By stating it “appears” to be a pipe bomb the statement avoids addressing the fact that no actual pipe bomb has ever been found and no one has been charged for possession of one. Despite the Acting Secretary Wolf’s claims that these demonstrators are intensely violent, the vast majority of the crimes he attributes to them are simple acts of vandalism
    I’m left to infer that your fear is like the fear held by Amy Cooper, the woman who called the police on the black man in Central Park. I’m sure you are scared, just as I’m sure that Cooper was scared, just as I was scared as a 5 year old by having to go to bed when the music from Perry Mason came on the TV. However, there is really no justification for that fear, but all of the reportage has it so that you think that graffiti is something that puts you in fear of your life.
    Cooper was swiftly fired by her employer and charged with a crime. However, the person who she called the police on said that he didn’t want her to suffer any further consequences (I found the article title “Birdwatcher not cooperating with investigation into Central Park ‘Karen’ Amy Cooper” interesting because it seems to flip the blame onto the black man. I believe this is purposeful, if you look at the Post’s editorial here, it notes this
    when he wasn’t really threatening, just being creepy. (How many birdwatchers carry doggy treats just so they can lure illegally off-the-leash canines?)
    When he specifically said that he does that because so many people fail to obey the leash law.)
    This seems to summarize the conflict. On an interpersonal level, you may have people you know who have these irrational fears and you may try to talk them out of it, but if you can’t, you guide the conversation to avoid the hotspots. On a societal level, at a certain point, those people who can’t seem to shake themselves of their fears are going to get ground up and spat out.
    This blog operates in an in-between space, where things try to be interpersonal, we try to take an interest in what each other is doing and communicate our interests and thoughts, even though it is unlikely that we will ever meet, but because we don’t meet, it ends up mirroring the societal. When a contentious subject comes up, there’s depending on who it is, a push to pile on or an urge to disengage. How we do this is everyone’s individual responsibility. But it all starts with you posting about how scared you are without any kind of information to back up your thoughts, which leads me to think that you really have no basis for this.
    I get that it can’t be pleasant to be dissected here or to post things that then get torn up by everyone. But your plea to GftNC about how she isn’t “privy to the hours I spend being the moderate in discussions with my more Trump cultist friends”, you want to cast yourself as the person in-between the crazy anarchists here and all the ‘Trump cultists’. As you started this out, you said
    Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yet, when asked to provide information to support this, you simply return to tropes. If you really want to be where you think you are, you might think about backing up what you say with some references. Otherwise, you are going to get beat up by the people who view this as a societal space and ignored by the ones who view this as interpersonal.

  756. Thanks for reading that Marty. I’d suggest that it’s on you to give a link to some information that supports what you think. Otherwise, folks like me are going to infer what you read and what you didn’t. For example, at the end of the Bellingcat piece, there is a discussion of the ‘pipebomb’ and some of the statements by Chad Wolfe. A brief excerpt:
    This is certainly very sneaky. By stating it “appears” to be a pipe bomb the statement avoids addressing the fact that no actual pipe bomb has ever been found and no one has been charged for possession of one. Despite the Acting Secretary Wolf’s claims that these demonstrators are intensely violent, the vast majority of the crimes he attributes to them are simple acts of vandalism
    I’m left to infer that your fear is like the fear held by Amy Cooper, the woman who called the police on the black man in Central Park. I’m sure you are scared, just as I’m sure that Cooper was scared, just as I was scared as a 5 year old by having to go to bed when the music from Perry Mason came on the TV. However, there is really no justification for that fear, but all of the reportage has it so that you think that graffiti is something that puts you in fear of your life.
    Cooper was swiftly fired by her employer and charged with a crime. However, the person who she called the police on said that he didn’t want her to suffer any further consequences (I found the article title “Birdwatcher not cooperating with investigation into Central Park ‘Karen’ Amy Cooper” interesting because it seems to flip the blame onto the black man. I believe this is purposeful, if you look at the Post’s editorial here, it notes this
    when he wasn’t really threatening, just being creepy. (How many birdwatchers carry doggy treats just so they can lure illegally off-the-leash canines?)
    When he specifically said that he does that because so many people fail to obey the leash law.)
    This seems to summarize the conflict. On an interpersonal level, you may have people you know who have these irrational fears and you may try to talk them out of it, but if you can’t, you guide the conversation to avoid the hotspots. On a societal level, at a certain point, those people who can’t seem to shake themselves of their fears are going to get ground up and spat out.
    This blog operates in an in-between space, where things try to be interpersonal, we try to take an interest in what each other is doing and communicate our interests and thoughts, even though it is unlikely that we will ever meet, but because we don’t meet, it ends up mirroring the societal. When a contentious subject comes up, there’s depending on who it is, a push to pile on or an urge to disengage. How we do this is everyone’s individual responsibility. But it all starts with you posting about how scared you are without any kind of information to back up your thoughts, which leads me to think that you really have no basis for this.
    I get that it can’t be pleasant to be dissected here or to post things that then get torn up by everyone. But your plea to GftNC about how she isn’t “privy to the hours I spend being the moderate in discussions with my more Trump cultist friends”, you want to cast yourself as the person in-between the crazy anarchists here and all the ‘Trump cultists’. As you started this out, you said
    Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yet, when asked to provide information to support this, you simply return to tropes. If you really want to be where you think you are, you might think about backing up what you say with some references. Otherwise, you are going to get beat up by the people who view this as a societal space and ignored by the ones who view this as interpersonal.

  757. You are left to infer whatever you please. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    That was way too many words to make no point whatsoever, or to obscure your point to make it seem it wasn’t a purely personnel attack.
    I get beat up here regularly with my complete knowledge and obvious consent. I do, though, get to pick which topics I want to take a real drubbing on and the ones I want to make a quick point and catch the arrows on my way out.

  758. You are left to infer whatever you please. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    That was way too many words to make no point whatsoever, or to obscure your point to make it seem it wasn’t a purely personnel attack.
    I get beat up here regularly with my complete knowledge and obvious consent. I do, though, get to pick which topics I want to take a real drubbing on and the ones I want to make a quick point and catch the arrows on my way out.

  761. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    Weather Underground – I condemn it.
    Pulling people out of cars and beating the crap out of them – I condemn it.
    Smashing windows, setting fires, looting and general random acts of destruction and mayhem – I condemn it, mostly because it’s pointless and harmful. Plus, it’s not your stuff, so you don’t get to trash it or set fire to it.
    Getting in fights with cops I can understand in some cases, in other cases I condemn it. It depends. Even when I can understand it, I don’t see the upside.
    Getting in fights with fascists, I don’t agree with as a tactical matter. I don’t think it accomplishes anything useful, it gives the fascist bully boys exactly what they want, and it’s generally not justifiable on the basis of self-defense. If they come to your mosque or synagogue or peaceful protest and try to kill you first or beat the crap out of you first, different story.
    But I have to say I don’t have a huge ethical problem with people who want to punch Nazis. I just think it gives them exactly what they want, so it seems self-defeating. Why make a Nazi happy?
    Non-violent protest, I basically never condemn. Even if it creates inconvenience and discomfort for some folks.
    Hope that clarifies my own personal “hand-waving”. Some folks here will give a little more leeway than I do, most probably will give less.
    So actually, “no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away” is false. Quit saying it, because it’s a lie.
    We’re just not sufficiently upset about Portland and Seattle and Minneapolis to suit you. Even though some of us probably are.
    If it makes you happy to persist in your belief in our general blindness and hypocrisy, carry on. There is no doubt bugger-all we can do to make you think otherwise.

  762. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    Weather Underground – I condemn it.
    Pulling people out of cars and beating the crap out of them – I condemn it.
    Smashing windows, setting fires, looting and general random acts of destruction and mayhem – I condemn it, mostly because it’s pointless and harmful. Plus, it’s not your stuff, so you don’t get to trash it or set fire to it.
    Getting in fights with cops I can understand in some cases, in other cases I condemn it. It depends. Even when I can understand it, I don’t see the upside.
    Getting in fights with fascists, I don’t agree with as a tactical matter. I don’t think it accomplishes anything useful, it gives the fascist bully boys exactly what they want, and it’s generally not justifiable on the basis of self-defense. If they come to your mosque or synagogue or peaceful protest and try to kill you first or beat the crap out of you first, different story.
    But I have to say I don’t have a huge ethical problem with people who want to punch Nazis. I just think it gives them exactly what they want, so it seems self-defeating. Why make a Nazi happy?
    Non-violent protest, I basically never condemn. Even if it creates inconvenience and discomfort for some folks.
    Hope that clarifies my own personal “hand-waving”. Some folks here will give a little more leeway than I do, most probably will give less.
    So actually, “no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away” is false. Quit saying it, because it’s a lie.
    We’re just not sufficiently upset about Portland and Seattle and Minneapolis to suit you. Even though some of us probably are.
    If it makes you happy to persist in your belief in our general blindness and hypocrisy, carry on. There is no doubt bugger-all we can do to make you think otherwise.

  763. I am in pretty much complete agreement with your first few paragraphs russell, and appreciated your earlier recognition that there was some level of violence growing on the left.
    I should have specifically mentioned that in my comment. My apology.

  764. I am in pretty much complete agreement with your first few paragraphs russell, and appreciated your earlier recognition that there was some level of violence growing on the left.
    I should have specifically mentioned that in my comment. My apology.

  765. Shorter me:
    Do you actually want to talk about the civil unrest that is going on – what is justifiable, what isn’t, where the lines are? – or do you just want to come here and tell us all that we’re just a bunch of liberal hypocrites living in our little bubble?
    The first is of interest. The second is not.
    If you want to say that none of it is justifiable, all of the civil unrest going on in Portland, or Seattle, or Minneapolis, or wherever, is out of bounds and just freaking wrong, that’s a credible point of view. But present it as such. Explain why you think that.
    Who knows, maybe you’re right. Try not leading with insults, you might be more persuasive.
    You think you’re getting a “drubbing”, but people are just trying to get you to justify the generally rude opening you made into this thread.
    It’s completely up to you how you want to engage here.

  766. Shorter me:
    Do you actually want to talk about the civil unrest that is going on – what is justifiable, what isn’t, where the lines are? – or do you just want to come here and tell us all that we’re just a bunch of liberal hypocrites living in our little bubble?
    The first is of interest. The second is not.
    If you want to say that none of it is justifiable, all of the civil unrest going on in Portland, or Seattle, or Minneapolis, or wherever, is out of bounds and just freaking wrong, that’s a credible point of view. But present it as such. Explain why you think that.
    Who knows, maybe you’re right. Try not leading with insults, you might be more persuasive.
    You think you’re getting a “drubbing”, but people are just trying to get you to justify the generally rude opening you made into this thread.
    It’s completely up to you how you want to engage here.

  767. I should have specifically mentioned that in my comment. My apology.
    Cool, no worries. Apologies are not needed.
    Clarity, however, is helpful.
    I appreciate the response.

  768. I should have specifically mentioned that in my comment. My apology.
    Cool, no worries. Apologies are not needed.
    Clarity, however, is helpful.
    I appreciate the response.

  769. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    Oddly, you seem to be unable to post a single link that supports what you say.
    I’m on the other side of the Pacific, so I may have to infer more than people living in the states, but given the fact that everyone seems to be calling you out, I’d put more faith in my take than in yours. It is ‘personal’ because I’m talking to you, but I spend a lot of words because I want to be clear and not simply toss a remark that might be taken as an insult. Unlike Russell, I don’t think you are lying, I think you really believe that there is a tidal wave of left wing Weather Underground style violence and no matter how much you disagree with Trump and his allies, you have to side with what you think are the lesser of two evils. I think fear is a motivating factor for you and the reason you don’t post links is that you are scared of being proved wrong. Fear is a terrible thing, and when it comes from a lack of analysis, it has you reacting to things that aren’t there. But other than than, wrs.

  770. Oddly, no amount of violence on the left is impossible to handwave away.
    Oddly, you seem to be unable to post a single link that supports what you say.
    I’m on the other side of the Pacific, so I may have to infer more than people living in the states, but given the fact that everyone seems to be calling you out, I’d put more faith in my take than in yours. It is ‘personal’ because I’m talking to you, but I spend a lot of words because I want to be clear and not simply toss a remark that might be taken as an insult. Unlike Russell, I don’t think you are lying, I think you really believe that there is a tidal wave of left wing Weather Underground style violence and no matter how much you disagree with Trump and his allies, you have to side with what you think are the lesser of two evils. I think fear is a motivating factor for you and the reason you don’t post links is that you are scared of being proved wrong. Fear is a terrible thing, and when it comes from a lack of analysis, it has you reacting to things that aren’t there. But other than than, wrs.

  775. I entered this thread stating I was not going to engage. For a variety of reasons. In between some macro stuff we have discussed the ongoing violence and I think my view is clear that it is not justified and is dangerous. I also don’t support the Proud Boys but I’m pretty sure almost nobody does. No one I know anyway, in either camp.
    So my view is, the greater danger is violence that is justified and tolerated.
    The one link that described the violence in the key cities supported my position completely, why would I go find another at that point?
    I actually don’t feel like in this thread I’ve taken much of a drubbing, I’ve been beat up more quite often.
    But to your point russell, I do sometimes just want to state that there is a pov or set of facts that I feel is being obviously ignored. I delete a lot of those when I know I don’t have the time or energy to take my drubbing. So yes, I do knowingly control how and when I engage.

  776. I entered this thread stating I was not going to engage. For a variety of reasons. In between some macro stuff we have discussed the ongoing violence and I think my view is clear that it is not justified and is dangerous. I also don’t support the Proud Boys but I’m pretty sure almost nobody does. No one I know anyway, in either camp.
    So my view is, the greater danger is violence that is justified and tolerated.
    The one link that described the violence in the key cities supported my position completely, why would I go find another at that point?
    I actually don’t feel like in this thread I’ve taken much of a drubbing, I’ve been beat up more quite often.
    But to your point russell, I do sometimes just want to state that there is a pov or set of facts that I feel is being obviously ignored. I delete a lot of those when I know I don’t have the time or energy to take my drubbing. So yes, I do knowingly control how and when I engage.

  777. Unlike Russell, I don’t think you are lying
    I don’t think Marty is lying. I think he believes things that are not true.

  778. Unlike Russell, I don’t think you are lying
    I don’t think Marty is lying. I think he believes things that are not true.

  779. Hope this is short enough to keep your attention, it will be mostly your own words.
    Just for the record, here is your first comment:
    Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yall sit here jawing about monsters under the bed while real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Such bs. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election, will anyone here admit to being wrong?
    Naw, you’ll just find a picture of some guy with a rifle and get the vapors while ignoring people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.
    Just to repeat, I don’t think you are lying when you most recently say
    I entered this thread stating I was not going to engage.
    But when you believe that you stated something you didn’t, you should expect some shit.

  780. Hope this is short enough to keep your attention, it will be mostly your own words.
    Just for the record, here is your first comment:
    Ffs, we are experiencing Civil Rights Era weather underground violence today. The building violence is all from the left and it isn’t civil disobedience, its f’ing violence.
    Yall sit here jawing about monsters under the bed while real, dangerous people are rioting and beating people across the country daily.
    Such bs. When Joe wins and the people who actually respect the law take their open carry weapons and quietly wait for the next election, or noisily wait for the next election, will anyone here admit to being wrong?
    Naw, you’ll just find a picture of some guy with a rifle and get the vapors while ignoring people in black masks looting and pulling people out of cars and beating them.
    Just to repeat, I don’t think you are lying when you most recently say
    I entered this thread stating I was not going to engage.
    But when you believe that you stated something you didn’t, you should expect some shit.

  783. I’m glad that Marty runs in purer company than I do. I used to train in martial arts with a bunch of people who were friends with 3%ers and ex-operatives who, prior to C-ville would say that if you were in a vehicle when leftist protesters showed up, you hit the gas because it’s self-defense. They all laughed when students got pepper sprayed for protesting fee hikes and they all thought George Zimmerman was a second amendment hero.
    Still do, from what I can tell.
    MRAs and QAnons and preppers. They are dotted across the US. Some of them are police officers. Some of them run training seminars for police forces. Some have done keynotes for the NRA.
    They have friends and training partners in Europe, too. Some of those are known right wing nationalists.
    The ones I knew weren’t always bad, but I watched the whole bunch go down the rabbit hole in the last decade.
    I know a bunch of leftist activists, actual communists, BLM supporters and antifa types, too. None of them own a single firearm. I’m not claiming that there aren’t any others that do. I know better than that. I’m just saying that none of the leftists I know build their identity around violence the way that those guys I trained with did.
    None of the ones I know advocate for violence or for arson or destruction. What they refuse to do is to accept that the violence of black bloc minority delegitimizes the cause. I can’t fault that.
    What scares me most in all of this is that I’m hearing my evangelical family repeating the things that the 3%ers are saying and sliding all apocalyptic, and I don’t know of any argument that will shift them out of seeing this as a literal war.
    You think things are bad now. Just wait until the climate goes the next step towards environmental collapse. The apocalyptic certainty is just getting started.

  784. I’m glad that Marty runs in purer company than I do. I used to train in martial arts with a bunch of people who were friends with 3%ers and ex-operatives who, prior to C-ville would say that if you were in a vehicle when leftist protesters showed up, you hit the gas because it’s self-defense. They all laughed when students got pepper sprayed for protesting fee hikes and they all thought George Zimmerman was a second amendment hero.
    Still do, from what I can tell.
    MRAs and QAnons and preppers. They are dotted across the US. Some of them are police officers. Some of them run training seminars for police forces. Some have done keynotes for the NRA.
    They have friends and training partners in Europe, too. Some of those are known right wing nationalists.
    The ones I knew weren’t always bad, but I watched the whole bunch go down the rabbit hole in the last decade.
    I know a bunch of leftist activists, actual communists, BLM supporters and antifa types, too. None of them own a single firearm. I’m not claiming that there aren’t any others that do. I know better than that. I’m just saying that none of the leftists I know build their identity around violence the way that those guys I trained with did.
    None of the ones I know advocate for violence or for arson or destruction. What they refuse to do is to accept that the violence of black bloc minority delegitimizes the cause. I can’t fault that.
    What scares me most in all of this is that I’m hearing my evangelical family repeating the things that the 3%ers are saying and sliding all apocalyptic, and I don’t know of any argument that will shift them out of seeing this as a literal war.
    You think things are bad now. Just wait until the climate goes the next step towards environmental collapse. The apocalyptic certainty is just getting started.

  789. What scares me most in all of this is that I’m hearing my evangelical family repeating the things that the 3%ers are saying and sliding all apocalyptic, and I don’t know of any argument that will shift them out of seeing this as a literal war…
    That is the Trump election campaign right there:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53858149
    “If you want a vision of your life under a Biden presidency, think of the smouldering ruins in Minneapolis, the violent anarchy of Portland, the blood-stained sidewalks of Chicago and imagine the mayhem coming to our town and every single town in America.”
    He has the paranoid vote.

  790. What scares me most in all of this is that I’m hearing my evangelical family repeating the things that the 3%ers are saying and sliding all apocalyptic, and I don’t know of any argument that will shift them out of seeing this as a literal war…
    That is the Trump election campaign right there:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53858149
    “If you want a vision of your life under a Biden presidency, think of the smouldering ruins in Minneapolis, the violent anarchy of Portland, the blood-stained sidewalks of Chicago and imagine the mayhem coming to our town and every single town in America.”
    He has the paranoid vote.

  791. Re JDT’s 11:43 link.
    Trump, routinely, accuses his opponents of things the he is doing. We know that. So if he is accusing Democrats of being a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, we can reasonably conclude . . . .

  792. Re JDT’s 11:43 link.
    Trump, routinely, accuses his opponents of things the he is doing. We know that. So if he is accusing Democrats of being a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, we can reasonably conclude . . . .

  793. wj, unless you believe Jabbabonk to be Satan, this would be absurd. The guy worships no one but himself and expects the same from his followers.

  794. wj, unless you believe Jabbabonk to be Satan, this would be absurd. The guy worships no one but himself and expects the same from his followers.

  797. Well. Just watched Joe Biden’s terrific speech.
    I kept thinking of the film Bridge of Spies, where the extraordinary Mark Rylance, playing the Russian spy, tells Tom Hanks why he thinks of him as “stoikiy muzhik” (a description that becomes even more significant towards the end of the film, though I cannot find a clip of that):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOa9jGkGQA
    The contrast between Biden and Trump could really not be starker.

  798. Well. Just watched Joe Biden’s terrific speech.
    I kept thinking of the film Bridge of Spies, where the extraordinary Mark Rylance, playing the Russian spy, tells Tom Hanks why he thinks of him as “stoikiy muzhik” (a description that becomes even more significant towards the end of the film, though I cannot find a clip of that):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOa9jGkGQA
    The contrast between Biden and Trump could really not be starker.

  799. I also don’t support the Proud Boys but I’m pretty sure almost nobody does. No one I know anyway, in either camp.
    So my view is, the greater danger is violence that is justified and tolerated.
    violence that is justified is … just. doesn’t seem right to condemn something that’s just.
    regardless.
    how much you think violence is tolerated and how much violence you think actually occurred is subjective and, not surprisingly, pre-determined by where you stand on other things…

    The split in the polls on whether the protests were violent or peaceful is striking. The Post-Schar School survey found that 43 percent believe that the protests were mostly violent and that an identical share think they were mostly peaceful. Opinions diverge sharply by ideology, with 70 percent of liberals saying they were mostly peaceful and 60 percent of conservatives concluding they were mostly violent. In fairness, a majority (66 percent) thought that neither the police nor the protesters but “other people acting irresponsibly” were responsible for the violence.
    …
    Clearly, what seemed obvious to many people on the left and center-left — that the police greeted protests against violence with violence — was not apparent to all. The political polarization evident in the reactions is also significant: As the debates continue, Americans may gravitate further toward “their” side’s view; the president will certainly try to make that happen by hammering on his “law and order” message.

    golly. what a shocker.

  800. I also don’t support the Proud Boys but I’m pretty sure almost nobody does. No one I know anyway, in either camp.
    So my view is, the greater danger is violence that is justified and tolerated.
    violence that is justified is … just. doesn’t seem right to condemn something that’s just.
    regardless.
    how much you think violence is tolerated and how much violence you think actually occurred is subjective and, not surprisingly, pre-determined by where you stand on other things…

    The split in the polls on whether the protests were violent or peaceful is striking. The Post-Schar School survey found that 43 percent believe that the protests were mostly violent and that an identical share think they were mostly peaceful. Opinions diverge sharply by ideology, with 70 percent of liberals saying they were mostly peaceful and 60 percent of conservatives concluding they were mostly violent. In fairness, a majority (66 percent) thought that neither the police nor the protesters but “other people acting irresponsibly” were responsible for the violence.
    …
    Clearly, what seemed obvious to many people on the left and center-left — that the police greeted protests against violence with violence — was not apparent to all. The political polarization evident in the reactions is also significant: As the debates continue, Americans may gravitate further toward “their” side’s view; the president will certainly try to make that happen by hammering on his “law and order” message.

    golly. what a shocker.

  801. STEVENS: Look, in July, Trump was already talking about suspending the elections. What do you think he’s going to do in October? Tell me what’s wrong with this scenario: It’s November 1, he’s losing, there are reports of voter irregularities in Florida, like there always are, and he sends those guys in camouflage into Miami-Dade County to seize the ballot boxes. Who’s going to stop him? The county security guards? They’re not going to phone ahead. What are the courts going to do? Order another election? Throw out Dade County? I don’t know. Who would object? [Attorney General William] Barr would go right along with it. The inability to imagine Trump has always been his greatest advantage.

  802. STEVENS: Look, in July, Trump was already talking about suspending the elections. What do you think he’s going to do in October? Tell me what’s wrong with this scenario: It’s November 1, he’s losing, there are reports of voter irregularities in Florida, like there always are, and he sends those guys in camouflage into Miami-Dade County to seize the ballot boxes. Who’s going to stop him? The county security guards? They’re not going to phone ahead. What are the courts going to do? Order another election? Throw out Dade County? I don’t know. Who would object? [Attorney General William] Barr would go right along with it. The inability to imagine Trump has always been his greatest advantage.

  805. none of the leftists I know build their identity around violence the way that those guys I trained with did.
    What they refuse to do is to accept that the violence of black bloc minority delegitimizes the cause.
    As is so often the case, nous captures pretty much everything I have to say in a couple of sentences, and much more clearly than I am able to.
    Thank you.
    And a pox on the head of the POTUS for treating all of this like an opportunity to show what a tough guy he is.
    People are angry, about a number of things. Constructive leadership is needed to address that.
    That leadership is not only not on offer, what is on offer is an opportunistic pouring of gasoline on the fire, in the interest of further dividing the nation and inflaming the vivid apocalyptic fantasy life of the POTUS’ base.
    I can’t tell if the man is insane, or just deeply and profoundly cynical. Maybe both. And I don’t actually care which, I just want to see him out.
    The man breeds chaos. It’s what he likes, it’s where he thrives. We’ve had enough of it.
    Vote him the hell out. Another four years of this are going to cripple us.
    Conservatives here who hate the very thought of voting (D), I’m calling on you to hold your noses this year and vote for Biden and Harris. A Biden presidency won’t be to your liking, is my guess, but neither will it harm your interests in any lasting or irrevocable way.
    Another four years of Trump will be intolerable.

  806. none of the leftists I know build their identity around violence the way that those guys I trained with did.
    What they refuse to do is to accept that the violence of black bloc minority delegitimizes the cause.
    As is so often the case, nous captures pretty much everything I have to say in a couple of sentences, and much more clearly than I am able to.
    Thank you.
    And a pox on the head of the POTUS for treating all of this like an opportunity to show what a tough guy he is.
    People are angry, about a number of things. Constructive leadership is needed to address that.
    That leadership is not only not on offer, what is on offer is an opportunistic pouring of gasoline on the fire, in the interest of further dividing the nation and inflaming the vivid apocalyptic fantasy life of the POTUS’ base.
    I can’t tell if the man is insane, or just deeply and profoundly cynical. Maybe both. And I don’t actually care which, I just want to see him out.
    The man breeds chaos. It’s what he likes, it’s where he thrives. We’ve had enough of it.
    Vote him the hell out. Another four years of this are going to cripple us.
    Conservatives here who hate the very thought of voting (D), I’m calling on you to hold your noses this year and vote for Biden and Harris. A Biden presidency won’t be to your liking, is my guess, but neither will it harm your interests in any lasting or irrevocable way.
    Another four years of Trump will be intolerable.

  809. Trump lining up the troops to steal the election:
    “We’re going to have everything,” said Trump. “We’re going to have sheriffs and we’re going to have law enforcement and we’re going to have hopefully U.S. attorneys, and we’re going to have everybody, and attorney generals.”

  810. Trump lining up the troops to steal the election:
    “We’re going to have everything,” said Trump. “We’re going to have sheriffs and we’re going to have law enforcement and we’re going to have hopefully U.S. attorneys, and we’re going to have everybody, and attorney generals.”

  811. Look, in July, Trump was already talking about suspending the elections.
    My assumption is that Trump is going to lose the popular vote, and probably (but you never know) the electoral vote.
    My assumption is also that, in that event, he will look for some way to FUBAR it so that he can claim that it’s not legitimate.
    None of that requires a big leap of the imagination, since he’s already doing, and been doing, the latter. In the form of his patented random “just throwing it out there” thought balloons, if nothing else. But also in tangible ways, see also trying to cripple the USPS.
    So, we should be ready for it.

  812. Look, in July, Trump was already talking about suspending the elections.
    My assumption is that Trump is going to lose the popular vote, and probably (but you never know) the electoral vote.
    My assumption is also that, in that event, he will look for some way to FUBAR it so that he can claim that it’s not legitimate.
    None of that requires a big leap of the imagination, since he’s already doing, and been doing, the latter. In the form of his patented random “just throwing it out there” thought balloons, if nothing else. But also in tangible ways, see also trying to cripple the USPS.
    So, we should be ready for it.

  813. i think he likes to watch his adversaries run around trying to prevent the things he comes up with off-the-cuff.

  814. i think he likes to watch his adversaries run around trying to prevent the things he comes up with off-the-cuff.

  815. On the topic of insuring the integrity of the vote – some useful and concrete suggestions about what you, the average citizen, can do to help make sure every vote gets cast and counted.
    Yeah, it’s Truthout, a notorious bunch of dirty hippie leftists, but the information seems accurate and actionable.

  816. On the topic of insuring the integrity of the vote – some useful and concrete suggestions about what you, the average citizen, can do to help make sure every vote gets cast and counted.
    Yeah, it’s Truthout, a notorious bunch of dirty hippie leftists, but the information seems accurate and actionable.

  817. But also in tangible ways, see also trying to cripple the USPS.
    If I lived in a state that was trying to implement vote-by-mail this late in the game, making things up as they went along, I would be very nervous about it. Living in a state where VBM has been in use for several years, and the contracts with the USPS for delivery and handling were signed months/years ago, I am not particularly concerned. Especially since I’m only dependent on the USPS for ballot distribution, where a couple of days delay isn’t important.

  818. But also in tangible ways, see also trying to cripple the USPS.
    If I lived in a state that was trying to implement vote-by-mail this late in the game, making things up as they went along, I would be very nervous about it. Living in a state where VBM has been in use for several years, and the contracts with the USPS for delivery and handling were signed months/years ago, I am not particularly concerned. Especially since I’m only dependent on the USPS for ballot distribution, where a couple of days delay isn’t important.

  819. “i think he likes to watch his adversaries run around trying to prevent the things he comes up with off-the-cuff.”
    Yes, he gets off on fucking with everyone. He throws some flash bangs in a metal garbage can and everyone jumps, even though they expect it, and they look over there.
    Meanwhile, right on front of us, he has serious motherratfuckers, right wing conservative operatives, to carry out the shitcanning of democracy and governance:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/the-rats-have-already-been-fucked
    And by the way, I don’t trust Stevens, who’s quote I used above, and the rest of the Never Trumpers. They are hard-core conservative operatives who have used every racist rat fucking trick in the book for 30 to 40 years to destroy democracy and governance.
    These type of malign movements, whether its the radical murderous right throughout history seeking absolute power or the radical murderous left throughout history seeking absolute power, or any criminal enterprise, as we have now In Trump, like the Mafia or the drug cartels, always have several fronts going at once to keep everyone off balance. They coo peace at you at the same time the bodies of their enemies are floating down the river.
    No, if the Never Trumpers think we’re going back to some sort of status quo ante wherein they again try to carry out every radical conservative agenda on the country, exactly what Trump is doing, except perhaps in foreign policy, but minus the Trump tweets, no way, ratfuckers.
    If Trump wins, Marty hiding and staying indoors is most probably a wise move. Preferably below ground.
    If Biden wins, it’s going to be like those Mafia movies, or Stalin and Trotsky, when the families go to war and two former rivals, who had an uneasy truce to liquidate the riffraff, stand back in the wreckage and eye each other with plenty of ammo left.
    Don’t trust any movement conservative. And never trust the moderate conservative dupes.
    Don’t turn your back on any of them.
    It’s the quiet movement conservatives who have been purposefully out of the public eye for months, going on years now, biding their time to take it all from us without tweeting about it ahead of time, who are the dangerous ratfuckers.
    Paul Ryan. Most of all Grover Norquist and his drowned gummint fetuses. Cat got his tongue? Hardly likely. He ate the cat.
    When they reappear in the smoking wreckage, that’s when the door to door street fighting starts.
    Wipe all of them off the face of the Earth.
    Then we can get back to muddling thru, with slightly higher taxes sans the incessant apocalyptic Kudlow whining and lying, and the two flush toilet, and testing all of the surviving meatpacking slaves who conservatives have enslaved and murdered, and what will seem like boring normalcy.
    More healthcare, many fewer guns.

  820. “i think he likes to watch his adversaries run around trying to prevent the things he comes up with off-the-cuff.”
    Yes, he gets off on fucking with everyone. He throws some flash bangs in a metal garbage can and everyone jumps, even though they expect it, and they look over there.
    Meanwhile, right on front of us, he has serious motherratfuckers, right wing conservative operatives, to carry out the shitcanning of democracy and governance:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/the-rats-have-already-been-fucked
    And by the way, I don’t trust Stevens, who’s quote I used above, and the rest of the Never Trumpers. They are hard-core conservative operatives who have used every racist rat fucking trick in the book for 30 to 40 years to destroy democracy and governance.
    These type of malign movements, whether its the radical murderous right throughout history seeking absolute power or the radical murderous left throughout history seeking absolute power, or any criminal enterprise, as we have now In Trump, like the Mafia or the drug cartels, always have several fronts going at once to keep everyone off balance. They coo peace at you at the same time the bodies of their enemies are floating down the river.
    No, if the Never Trumpers think we’re going back to some sort of status quo ante wherein they again try to carry out every radical conservative agenda on the country, exactly what Trump is doing, except perhaps in foreign policy, but minus the Trump tweets, no way, ratfuckers.
    If Trump wins, Marty hiding and staying indoors is most probably a wise move. Preferably below ground.
    If Biden wins, it’s going to be like those Mafia movies, or Stalin and Trotsky, when the families go to war and two former rivals, who had an uneasy truce to liquidate the riffraff, stand back in the wreckage and eye each other with plenty of ammo left.
    Don’t trust any movement conservative. And never trust the moderate conservative dupes.
    Don’t turn your back on any of them.
    It’s the quiet movement conservatives who have been purposefully out of the public eye for months, going on years now, biding their time to take it all from us without tweeting about it ahead of time, who are the dangerous ratfuckers.
    Paul Ryan. Most of all Grover Norquist and his drowned gummint fetuses. Cat got his tongue? Hardly likely. He ate the cat.
    When they reappear in the smoking wreckage, that’s when the door to door street fighting starts.
    Wipe all of them off the face of the Earth.
    Then we can get back to muddling thru, with slightly higher taxes sans the incessant apocalyptic Kudlow whining and lying, and the two flush toilet, and testing all of the surviving meatpacking slaves who conservatives have enslaved and murdered, and what will seem like boring normalcy.
    More healthcare, many fewer guns.

  823. Not sure if you would get the reference, JT, but the photo at the top of that LGM post is from the Beastie Boys video for the song “Sabotage.”

  824. Not sure if you would get the reference, JT, but the photo at the top of that LGM post is from the Beastie Boys video for the song “Sabotage.”

  825. As school opening arrives, a governor has issued a public health order that all school children will wear masks. Students and staff who don’t wear masks in schools can be charged with a misdemeanor.
    Needless to say, some parents there are outraged at such a blatantly unconstitutional action. Expect at any moment a tweet from Trump denouncing this as yet another example of coastal elites, led by socialist Democrats, infringing on real Americans’ rights.
    Of course, the state in question is Utah (rather lacking in coasts) and the governor is a Republican. But hey, why pass up a chance to rant?

  826. As school opening arrives, a governor has issued a public health order that all school children will wear masks. Students and staff who don’t wear masks in schools can be charged with a misdemeanor.
    Needless to say, some parents there are outraged at such a blatantly unconstitutional action. Expect at any moment a tweet from Trump denouncing this as yet another example of coastal elites, led by socialist Democrats, infringing on real Americans’ rights.
    Of course, the state in question is Utah (rather lacking in coasts) and the governor is a Republican. But hey, why pass up a chance to rant?

  827. There’s an error in that particular map. Montana should be the next shade darker, like Arizona, because they have the same arrangement: permanent any-voter mail ballot list (~72% of Montana voters are on the list). It’s already a settled matter that >90% of registered voters in the 13-state western region of the US will receive a mail ballot without taking any additional actions.

  828. There’s an error in that particular map. Montana should be the next shade darker, like Arizona, because they have the same arrangement: permanent any-voter mail ballot list (~72% of Montana voters are on the list). It’s already a settled matter that >90% of registered voters in the 13-state western region of the US will receive a mail ballot without taking any additional actions.

  831. hairshirthedonist:
    I looked at the photo for a few minutes and figured it was probably a band-related thing, but did not make the connection to the Beastie Boys.
    Thanks.

  832. hairshirthedonist:
    I looked at the photo for a few minutes and figured it was probably a band-related thing, but did not make the connection to the Beastie Boys.
    Thanks.

  835. I watched the video of Biden meeting and talking with Brayden.
    I’ve been talking about this election in terms of ham sandwiches. Trump sets a low bar, anybody but Trump will be more than fine.
    Biden is much, much more than a ham sandwich. I seriously hope he wins, and wins decisively. He’s a decent human being, and we’ll be lucky to have him.
    Seriously, in a choice between Biden and Trump, I can’t see anybody with a shred of human decency or respect for this country voting for Trump. Sorry if that harshes anybody’s mellow.
    And yeah, I know, “nice guy” is not the whole job description. Biden was a US Senator for 36 years, and VPOTUS for 8. I think he knows his way around the joint.
    I’m in for a couple hundred bucks a week until November. If I wasn’t old and wasn’t beholden to respect my wife’s wishes about exposure to COVID I’d be driving people to the polls. If I can find other stuff to do, I’ll do it.
    I was kind of going into this cycle thinking I’d basically put up with whatever, just to get Trump the hell out. I’m actually enthusiastic about Biden. I think he’s a great choice, for this country, at this time.
    Conservatives, hold your noses and vote for the guy already.

  836. I watched the video of Biden meeting and talking with Brayden.
    I’ve been talking about this election in terms of ham sandwiches. Trump sets a low bar, anybody but Trump will be more than fine.
    Biden is much, much more than a ham sandwich. I seriously hope he wins, and wins decisively. He’s a decent human being, and we’ll be lucky to have him.
    Seriously, in a choice between Biden and Trump, I can’t see anybody with a shred of human decency or respect for this country voting for Trump. Sorry if that harshes anybody’s mellow.
    And yeah, I know, “nice guy” is not the whole job description. Biden was a US Senator for 36 years, and VPOTUS for 8. I think he knows his way around the joint.
    I’m in for a couple hundred bucks a week until November. If I wasn’t old and wasn’t beholden to respect my wife’s wishes about exposure to COVID I’d be driving people to the polls. If I can find other stuff to do, I’ll do it.
    I was kind of going into this cycle thinking I’d basically put up with whatever, just to get Trump the hell out. I’m actually enthusiastic about Biden. I think he’s a great choice, for this country, at this time.
    Conservatives, hold your noses and vote for the guy already.

  837. I was kind of going into this cycle thinking I’d basically put up with whatever, just to get Trump the hell out. I’m actually enthusiastic about Biden. I think he’s a great choice, for this country, at this time.
    This is wonderful news. I am worried about the future, because it’s going to be very hard for him to turn things around. But he will try, and needs everyone’s help.

  838. I was kind of going into this cycle thinking I’d basically put up with whatever, just to get Trump the hell out. I’m actually enthusiastic about Biden. I think he’s a great choice, for this country, at this time.
    This is wonderful news. I am worried about the future, because it’s going to be very hard for him to turn things around. But he will try, and needs everyone’s help.

  839. Conservatives, hold your noses and vote for the guy already.
    Sorry, but I just can’t do that.
    I’m voting for him, of course. But this conservative can’t see any reason to hold my nose. 😉
    Even though he will doubtless do some things I’m opposed to. The return to sanity far outweighs that.

  840. Conservatives, hold your noses and vote for the guy already.
    Sorry, but I just can’t do that.
    I’m voting for him, of course. But this conservative can’t see any reason to hold my nose. 😉
    Even though he will doubtless do some things I’m opposed to. The return to sanity far outweighs that.

  841. more backstory
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/when-joe-biden-met-brayden-how-chance-meeting-led-stirring-n1237705
    There was a video on twitter of this meeting.
    There’s always the danger that I’m making lemonade out of lemons, but I’m coming to the conclusion that in politics, you start off with the personal and you hope that the larger system doesn’t erase the good parts and amplify the bad. At least that’s what I’m thinking right now.

  842. more backstory
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/when-joe-biden-met-brayden-how-chance-meeting-led-stirring-n1237705
    There was a video on twitter of this meeting.
    There’s always the danger that I’m making lemonade out of lemons, but I’m coming to the conclusion that in politics, you start off with the personal and you hope that the larger system doesn’t erase the good parts and amplify the bad. At least that’s what I’m thinking right now.

  843. This is wonderful news.
    Yeah, I kind of surprised myself.
    I’m voting for him, of course. But this conservative can’t see any reason to hold my nose.
    thanks wj, I sincerely appreciate it.
    The return to sanity far outweighs that.
    may it be so.

  844. This is wonderful news.
    Yeah, I kind of surprised myself.
    I’m voting for him, of course. But this conservative can’t see any reason to hold my nose.
    thanks wj, I sincerely appreciate it.
    The return to sanity far outweighs that.
    may it be so.

  845. A marvellous clip of an Irish anarchist in 2011, describing why he intends to vote for Fianna Fail:
    We believe in the theory of chaos, the complete destruction of society as it stands at the moment, the only one in this country that deserves my [inaudible] is Fianna Fail, they have the country half-destroyed, I think if they get back in for another term they’ll totally destroy it..”
    https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1071457121861029891
    I think I need hardly point out the parallels.

  846. A marvellous clip of an Irish anarchist in 2011, describing why he intends to vote for Fianna Fail:
    We believe in the theory of chaos, the complete destruction of society as it stands at the moment, the only one in this country that deserves my [inaudible] is Fianna Fail, they have the country half-destroyed, I think if they get back in for another term they’ll totally destroy it..”
    https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1071457121861029891
    I think I need hardly point out the parallels.

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