432 thoughts on “Politics and insanity thread”

  3. Fox News seems to have changed directions on the whole covid-19 situation. But is it enough, soon enough?
    My sense is that, by spending a couple months pooh-poohing the whole thing, the whole right wing media complex has successfully convinced their audience that it’s nothing. And changing all those minds, especially to accepting what the normal media has been saying all along, isn’t going to be easy.
    What that means politically is this. The right was already looking at future decline due to basic demographics. But now, they have been encouraging their audience — who, be it remembered, are a population disproportionately at risk — to do things that can get them killed. Which only speeds up that demographic problem.
    Add that to a situation which is making it impossible to ignore how incompetent and dishonest Trump has been. And we may end November trying to find a new term for something beyond a mere wave election.

  4. Fox News seems to have changed directions on the whole covid-19 situation. But is it enough, soon enough?
    My sense is that, by spending a couple months pooh-poohing the whole thing, the whole right wing media complex has successfully convinced their audience that it’s nothing. And changing all those minds, especially to accepting what the normal media has been saying all along, isn’t going to be easy.
    What that means politically is this. The right was already looking at future decline due to basic demographics. But now, they have been encouraging their audience — who, be it remembered, are a population disproportionately at risk — to do things that can get them killed. Which only speeds up that demographic problem.
    Add that to a situation which is making it impossible to ignore how incompetent and dishonest Trump has been. And we may end November trying to find a new term for something beyond a mere wave election.

  5. “pooh-poohing”?
    C’mon, wj, cut loose! Put some feeling into it!
    Was it pooh-poohing when Tokyo Rose’ voice would sweetly call out to dug-in US troops over the ravaged battlefields of Okinawa and Guadalcanal about Yankee’s games and whether or not their girlfriends and wives were shagging other men or worse, each other, back in Small-Town USA, that their boyhood loyal Fidos had died of loneliness?
    Excuse me, but FOX News and the entire right wing piece of shit goddamned anti-human movement is purposefully and malignantly lying and may well have contributed to the spread of the disease and killed people.
    Speak English. It’s the national language, so the conservative vermin tell us.
    They are sinister. They are Evil. They are your enemy.
    pooh pooh that.

  6. “pooh-poohing”?
    C’mon, wj, cut loose! Put some feeling into it!
    Was it pooh-poohing when Tokyo Rose’ voice would sweetly call out to dug-in US troops over the ravaged battlefields of Okinawa and Guadalcanal about Yankee’s games and whether or not their girlfriends and wives were shagging other men or worse, each other, back in Small-Town USA, that their boyhood loyal Fidos had died of loneliness?
    Excuse me, but FOX News and the entire right wing piece of shit goddamned anti-human movement is purposefully and malignantly lying and may well have contributed to the spread of the disease and killed people.
    Speak English. It’s the national language, so the conservative vermin tell us.
    They are sinister. They are Evil. They are your enemy.
    pooh pooh that.

  7. I wonder if it will be possible to make sure that what Fox has done is kept alive in people’s memory. I imagine President Biden, every time a Fox correspondent asking a question, prefacing it with the observation ‘The correspondent from Fox, where they initially presented corona as a hoax dreamed up by the left. Your question?’
    That’s assuming we never get the stones to take the whole network of the air and sell the stations to pay for medicare for all.

  8. I wonder if it will be possible to make sure that what Fox has done is kept alive in people’s memory. I imagine President Biden, every time a Fox correspondent asking a question, prefacing it with the observation ‘The correspondent from Fox, where they initially presented corona as a hoax dreamed up by the left. Your question?’
    That’s assuming we never get the stones to take the whole network of the air and sell the stations to pay for medicare for all.

  13. Putin wins.
    Obviously nothing to see here. Barr drops case against Mueller-indicted Russian firm, and Trump judge says, fine!
    If we somehow eke out a win in the November “election”, maybe we can start to save our country. But it’s going to be a long and difficult haul, and we’d better start realizing that it’s not just Trump, but his little Russian helpers.

  14. Putin wins.
    Obviously nothing to see here. Barr drops case against Mueller-indicted Russian firm, and Trump judge says, fine!
    If we somehow eke out a win in the November “election”, maybe we can start to save our country. But it’s going to be a long and difficult haul, and we’d better start realizing that it’s not just Trump, but his little Russian helpers.

  21. Sometime in the next couple of years, there will be the beginning of a drawn-out discussion over how many people we are willing to let die to avoid crashing the economy.

  22. Sometime in the next couple of years, there will be the beginning of a drawn-out discussion over how many people we are willing to let die to avoid crashing the economy.

  23. every time a Fox correspondent asking a question, prefacing it with the observation ‘The correspondent from Fox, where they initially presented corona as a hoax dreamed up by the left
    The problem with taking that approach to Fox is that the actual Fox reporters seem to be decent newsfolks. It’s the commentators, masquerading as news people, who are the problem. So while I applaud the intent, I’m not sure this is the best path to the goal.

  24. every time a Fox correspondent asking a question, prefacing it with the observation ‘The correspondent from Fox, where they initially presented corona as a hoax dreamed up by the left
    The problem with taking that approach to Fox is that the actual Fox reporters seem to be decent newsfolks. It’s the commentators, masquerading as news people, who are the problem. So while I applaud the intent, I’m not sure this is the best path to the goal.

  25. If we somehow eke out a win in the November “election”, maybe we can start to save our country.
    The bad news is, Federal judges serve for life. And they have appointed some massively unqualified disasters. The good news is, even Federal judges can be impeached and removed for cause.** So the worst can be winnowed out. And should be.
    ** To my mind, the Bar Association also has some responsibility for weeding out those who are totally incompetent. But that’s outside what I, as a non-lawyer, have any say in.

  26. If we somehow eke out a win in the November “election”, maybe we can start to save our country.
    The bad news is, Federal judges serve for life. And they have appointed some massively unqualified disasters. The good news is, even Federal judges can be impeached and removed for cause.** So the worst can be winnowed out. And should be.
    ** To my mind, the Bar Association also has some responsibility for weeding out those who are totally incompetent. But that’s outside what I, as a non-lawyer, have any say in.

  27. Problem is, to get impeachment and removal in the current political climate is a massively high bar. Just disagreeing with the judge’s decisions isn’t going to do it (and arguably shouldn’t – that, after all, is the main point of lifetime tenure). Having zero courtroom experience is an argument against confirmation, not for impeachment, and by the time impeachment could be at all relevant, would no longer be true (biased though that experience might be).
    You can probably remove a judge who is outright selling verdicts for bribes. That’s probably around the level you need to get to. Of course, this Senate didn’t think selling military aid for political assistance was enough to convict, so I’m not even sure about the bribery thing these days.

  28. Problem is, to get impeachment and removal in the current political climate is a massively high bar. Just disagreeing with the judge’s decisions isn’t going to do it (and arguably shouldn’t – that, after all, is the main point of lifetime tenure). Having zero courtroom experience is an argument against confirmation, not for impeachment, and by the time impeachment could be at all relevant, would no longer be true (biased though that experience might be).
    You can probably remove a judge who is outright selling verdicts for bribes. That’s probably around the level you need to get to. Of course, this Senate didn’t think selling military aid for political assistance was enough to convict, so I’m not even sure about the bribery thing these days.

  29. You can probably remove a judge who is outright selling verdicts for bribes. That’s probably around the level you need to get to
    I’d agree that disagreeing with decisions is not, in general, grounds for removal. On the other hand (and unfortunately this is not beyond the realm of possibility) making decisions which are reversed for errors that any second yer law student should know better than? That’s another story. (And it may be worth noting that most of the cases of impeachment and removal, historically, have been of judges.)
    Whether the process will play out is impossible to tell right now. On one hand, politics is extremely polarized right now, to the exclusion of concern for actual facts. On the other hand, the current excitements may leave the country as a whole in somewhat the same position as we have experienced here in California for the last couple decades: there is a Republican Party, but it is sufficiently unpopular that it holds no statewide offices and has something like a quarter of the legislative seats. In short, it is an irrelevance when decisions are made.
    I think our politics needs two viable parties. But we seem determinedly heading for a situation where that isn’t what we have. And at least it will let us clean up some of the mess that Trump and (more) McConnell have made of the judiciary.

  30. You can probably remove a judge who is outright selling verdicts for bribes. That’s probably around the level you need to get to
    I’d agree that disagreeing with decisions is not, in general, grounds for removal. On the other hand (and unfortunately this is not beyond the realm of possibility) making decisions which are reversed for errors that any second yer law student should know better than? That’s another story. (And it may be worth noting that most of the cases of impeachment and removal, historically, have been of judges.)
    Whether the process will play out is impossible to tell right now. On one hand, politics is extremely polarized right now, to the exclusion of concern for actual facts. On the other hand, the current excitements may leave the country as a whole in somewhat the same position as we have experienced here in California for the last couple decades: there is a Republican Party, but it is sufficiently unpopular that it holds no statewide offices and has something like a quarter of the legislative seats. In short, it is an irrelevance when decisions are made.
    I think our politics needs two viable parties. But we seem determinedly heading for a situation where that isn’t what we have. And at least it will let us clean up some of the mess that Trump and (more) McConnell have made of the judiciary.

  31. This is in response to sapient’s remark that “FOX News has done an about face” on the no politics “Theme, with Variations” thread.*
    It’s not an about face, it’s a strategic flanking move in Murdoch’s Republican Party malignant self interest, to continue with the martial image.
    They should be gunned down mercilessly like a fucking gauleiter emerging from the ruins of Dresden with one hand up in mock surrender and a Mauser pistol concealed in the other behind his back.
    Yes, and Claus Von Stauffenberg and co-conspirators cooled their Nazi heels until 1944 to assassinate Hitler and decapitate the Nazi Party, unsuccessfully. After, what, a dozen years of following orders? Fuck them.
    And Albert Speer expressed remorse at Nuremberg while eliding any recognition of the murder of the Jews and other victims. Bullshit!
    No, about face not accepted.
    FOX News needs to be shut down and the business liquidated completely. As do the other right wing hate machines.
    And, no, the rank and file news people are not stand up folks. What kind of overgroomed, mini-skirted, teeth-bleached fuck wad, even with a so-called journalism degree applies for a job with FOX News without knowing at this late date what their “bias” is, that dumbass word thought up by conservatives.
    They are at the very least threats to the national security of the United States of America and all of their employees are complicit in the crimes of contributing to killing and sickening Americans (some of whom are willingly complicit in their fates) during this national emergency, with special mention to the leading “personalities” infesting that nest of vipers.
    This would be a fitting end to all of the swine, especially Limbaugh with his fake lung cancer.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bre-payton-conservative-writer-and-television-guest-dies-at-26-after-sudden-illness
    Incidentally, while Limbaugh is telling his ignorant sycophants this thing is no big deal and a hoax, what to do you suppose his doctors are telling him about exposure to anything that would compromise his immune system.
    Hanh?
    But we would be further endangering ourselves.
    So executions are the only practical alternative, as with the Rosenbergs, except that there is no doubt of FOX News’ guilt.
    What about the First Amendment, most will ask?
    What about it?
    Loose lip sink ships and their yacht is going to the bottom with all on board.
    The dredging operation will reveal all of then were dead before they went down.
    Fuck everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    Fuck both sides do it. FOX News and republican conservatives do it. The rest of us go through the motions trying to keep up.
    Fuck deep state.
    In fact, there needs to be a deeper state cleansing this country of its enemies.
    I’d say put that in your (for any value of “your”) hats and smoke it, but smoking may make you more susceptible to the ravages of Covid-19, and since I give a shit, I don’t want that to happen to any of you.
    Barkeep? Towel!
    Do I have to be the only right wing law and order patriot around here?
    *As with any virus, politics is a difficult thing to quarantine.

  32. This is in response to sapient’s remark that “FOX News has done an about face” on the no politics “Theme, with Variations” thread.*
    It’s not an about face, it’s a strategic flanking move in Murdoch’s Republican Party malignant self interest, to continue with the martial image.
    They should be gunned down mercilessly like a fucking gauleiter emerging from the ruins of Dresden with one hand up in mock surrender and a Mauser pistol concealed in the other behind his back.
    Yes, and Claus Von Stauffenberg and co-conspirators cooled their Nazi heels until 1944 to assassinate Hitler and decapitate the Nazi Party, unsuccessfully. After, what, a dozen years of following orders? Fuck them.
    And Albert Speer expressed remorse at Nuremberg while eliding any recognition of the murder of the Jews and other victims. Bullshit!
    No, about face not accepted.
    FOX News needs to be shut down and the business liquidated completely. As do the other right wing hate machines.
    And, no, the rank and file news people are not stand up folks. What kind of overgroomed, mini-skirted, teeth-bleached fuck wad, even with a so-called journalism degree applies for a job with FOX News without knowing at this late date what their “bias” is, that dumbass word thought up by conservatives.
    They are at the very least threats to the national security of the United States of America and all of their employees are complicit in the crimes of contributing to killing and sickening Americans (some of whom are willingly complicit in their fates) during this national emergency, with special mention to the leading “personalities” infesting that nest of vipers.
    This would be a fitting end to all of the swine, especially Limbaugh with his fake lung cancer.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bre-payton-conservative-writer-and-television-guest-dies-at-26-after-sudden-illness
    Incidentally, while Limbaugh is telling his ignorant sycophants this thing is no big deal and a hoax, what to do you suppose his doctors are telling him about exposure to anything that would compromise his immune system.
    Hanh?
    But we would be further endangering ourselves.
    So executions are the only practical alternative, as with the Rosenbergs, except that there is no doubt of FOX News’ guilt.
    What about the First Amendment, most will ask?
    What about it?
    Loose lip sink ships and their yacht is going to the bottom with all on board.
    The dredging operation will reveal all of then were dead before they went down.
    Fuck everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    Fuck both sides do it. FOX News and republican conservatives do it. The rest of us go through the motions trying to keep up.
    Fuck deep state.
    In fact, there needs to be a deeper state cleansing this country of its enemies.
    I’d say put that in your (for any value of “your”) hats and smoke it, but smoking may make you more susceptible to the ravages of Covid-19, and since I give a shit, I don’t want that to happen to any of you.
    Barkeep? Towel!
    Do I have to be the only right wing law and order patriot around here?
    *As with any virus, politics is a difficult thing to quarantine.

  33. “it is sufficiently unpopular that it holds no statewide offices and has something like a quarter of the legislative seats. In short, it is an irrelevance when decisions are made.”
    It has a quarter of the legislative seats due to permanent gerrymandered districts. Republicans know they have no say, much like MA. So you could develop a Republican party like MA, but that wouldnt really be two parties.

  34. “it is sufficiently unpopular that it holds no statewide offices and has something like a quarter of the legislative seats. In short, it is an irrelevance when decisions are made.”
    It has a quarter of the legislative seats due to permanent gerrymandered districts. Republicans know they have no say, much like MA. So you could develop a Republican party like MA, but that wouldnt really be two parties.

  35. So, what would happen if we overthrew the entire republican political “leadership” of this country and made this guy President:
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tom-hanks-son-shares-good-news-about-his-dad-he-also-has-a-pointed-message-for-toilet-paper-hoarders-2020-03-17?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    Other than the tattoo mandate, it couldn’t be any worse, would it?
    Hanks and his wife seem to be recovering.
    Let’s move to Australia.
    Their conservatives merely burn the country down.

  36. So, what would happen if we overthrew the entire republican political “leadership” of this country and made this guy President:
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tom-hanks-son-shares-good-news-about-his-dad-he-also-has-a-pointed-message-for-toilet-paper-hoarders-2020-03-17?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    Other than the tattoo mandate, it couldn’t be any worse, would it?
    Hanks and his wife seem to be recovering.
    Let’s move to Australia.
    Their conservatives merely burn the country down.

  37. Or, move to China. At least you might get the care you need, instead of the efficient, cost effective and outrageously expensive, just in time but too late bullshit we do here, like we’re selling shoes instead of keeping people well, because every damned thing is a commodity equal to every other commodity.
    A CT scan? Here, sorry, those are on back order because we must keep inventories low and margins high like Ferrari does.
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-germs-of-august-liberalism-august-1914-moment/
    More:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-long-duration-18-months-coronavirus/
    Want more? Probably not:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bliss-of-before-tumult-of-after-college-republican-coronavirus/
    Ok. I’ve used up my allotment of oxygen for the week.

  38. Or, move to China. At least you might get the care you need, instead of the efficient, cost effective and outrageously expensive, just in time but too late bullshit we do here, like we’re selling shoes instead of keeping people well, because every damned thing is a commodity equal to every other commodity.
    A CT scan? Here, sorry, those are on back order because we must keep inventories low and margins high like Ferrari does.
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-germs-of-august-liberalism-august-1914-moment/
    More:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-long-duration-18-months-coronavirus/
    Want more? Probably not:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bliss-of-before-tumult-of-after-college-republican-coronavirus/
    Ok. I’ve used up my allotment of oxygen for the week.

  39. One last gasp, to quote Boris Trump Johnson, the cholera and plague wag. That guy Miltonfriederdofenlooper again:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/trump-defended-cuts-public-health-agencies/608158/
    FOX News and the Republican Party leading pigfucker America:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLpCkGFff5I
    FOX News and Limbaugh viewers gather to welcome our friend, the common cold. Time’s up:t
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFG-4Ge668
    Have a larf before the killing starts:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwE-WIdIzz8
    Sock now inserted in mo … umpf.

  40. One last gasp, to quote Boris Trump Johnson, the cholera and plague wag. That guy Miltonfriederdofenlooper again:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/trump-defended-cuts-public-health-agencies/608158/
    FOX News and the Republican Party leading pigfucker America:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLpCkGFff5I
    FOX News and Limbaugh viewers gather to welcome our friend, the common cold. Time’s up:t
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFG-4Ge668
    Have a larf before the killing starts:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwE-WIdIzz8
    Sock now inserted in mo … umpf.

  41. Sometime in the next couple of years, there will be the beginning of a drawn-out discussion over how many people we are willing to let die to avoid crashing the economy.
    This discussion is already happening.
    Unlike Loomis, I think the discussion is (cautiously) worth having, but as one commenter there stated: “An expected number of deaths around 1 million if we do nothing multiplied by $9 million equals $9 trillion or roughly 40% of the US economy for a year.”
    So the estimates of a 5% contraction for 2 quarters seems to be a bargain.” The figure of $9 million comes from the article.
    Whether or not the data actually would prove this, I don’t know. But the cost of overwhelmed hospitals, extra deaths, extra disabilities: those things have to be factored in.
    Shutting down the country will definitely take a toll on people, and Loomis is wrong (IMO) to dismiss that. I still think that doing so is right compared to the alternative.

  42. Sometime in the next couple of years, there will be the beginning of a drawn-out discussion over how many people we are willing to let die to avoid crashing the economy.
    This discussion is already happening.
    Unlike Loomis, I think the discussion is (cautiously) worth having, but as one commenter there stated: “An expected number of deaths around 1 million if we do nothing multiplied by $9 million equals $9 trillion or roughly 40% of the US economy for a year.”
    So the estimates of a 5% contraction for 2 quarters seems to be a bargain.” The figure of $9 million comes from the article.
    Whether or not the data actually would prove this, I don’t know. But the cost of overwhelmed hospitals, extra deaths, extra disabilities: those things have to be factored in.
    Shutting down the country will definitely take a toll on people, and Loomis is wrong (IMO) to dismiss that. I still think that doing so is right compared to the alternative.

  43. Ah, I see: the main problem is that the Dems will take over and then abuse the emergency powers Jabbabonk will have reluctantly claimed to deal with the crisis. Therefore it is important to replace all aging conservative judges before November* with (ideally) reliable toddlers with Falwellian law degrees.
    May I humbly suggest that we also (just as a precaution) remove all lampposts and thus any involontary elevation accompanied by (once) popular French songs. The darkness will also ease the necessary sneak-out when the mob with the agricultural implements and the wood, pitch and resin based improvised light sources arrives.
    *who am I kidding? The last judges will get confirmed seconds before POTUS novus fucoso-laevus opens his mouth to speak the oath of office.

  44. Ah, I see: the main problem is that the Dems will take over and then abuse the emergency powers Jabbabonk will have reluctantly claimed to deal with the crisis. Therefore it is important to replace all aging conservative judges before November* with (ideally) reliable toddlers with Falwellian law degrees.
    May I humbly suggest that we also (just as a precaution) remove all lampposts and thus any involontary elevation accompanied by (once) popular French songs. The darkness will also ease the necessary sneak-out when the mob with the agricultural implements and the wood, pitch and resin based improvised light sources arrives.
    *who am I kidding? The last judges will get confirmed seconds before POTUS novus fucoso-laevus opens his mouth to speak the oath of office.

  45. It has a quarter of the legislative seats due to permanent gerrymandered districts. Republicans know they have no say, much like MA.
    Actually, no. We took the politicians out of drawing district lines well over a decade ago. The districts get drawn by a non-partisan commission, and the lines generally are drawn (outside cities) to follow things like ridgelines which seperate communities. Republicans are irrelevant because they are only the third largest political group — after Democrats and NoPartyPreference. (24% vs 43% and 27% respectively.)

  46. It has a quarter of the legislative seats due to permanent gerrymandered districts. Republicans know they have no say, much like MA.
    Actually, no. We took the politicians out of drawing district lines well over a decade ago. The districts get drawn by a non-partisan commission, and the lines generally are drawn (outside cities) to follow things like ridgelines which seperate communities. Republicans are irrelevant because they are only the third largest political group — after Democrats and NoPartyPreference. (24% vs 43% and 27% respectively.)

  47. Shutting down the country will definitely take a toll on people, and Loomis is wrong (IMO) to dismiss that.
    I didn’t get that take. He did not “dismiss” whatever it is you think he has. Please read the squib again. He is pretty clear that he feels those who argue that the price we may have to ultimately pay to effectively battle this problem is not worth the cost is simply “sociopathic”, and therefore is an “argument” not worth having. I would assume you would agree?

  48. Shutting down the country will definitely take a toll on people, and Loomis is wrong (IMO) to dismiss that.
    I didn’t get that take. He did not “dismiss” whatever it is you think he has. Please read the squib again. He is pretty clear that he feels those who argue that the price we may have to ultimately pay to effectively battle this problem is not worth the cost is simply “sociopathic”, and therefore is an “argument” not worth having. I would assume you would agree?

  57. “The Committee to Unleash Prosperity” !
    as far as pure wingnut hackery goes, the name alone is almost unbeatable. could anything that follows measure up?
    “STEVE FORBES, ART LAFFER, STEPHEN MOORE”
    ahh. perfecto!

  58. “The Committee to Unleash Prosperity” !
    as far as pure wingnut hackery goes, the name alone is almost unbeatable. could anything that follows measure up?
    “STEVE FORBES, ART LAFFER, STEPHEN MOORE”
    ahh. perfecto!

  59. Please read the squib again. He is pretty clear that he feels those who argue that the price we may have to ultimately pay to effectively battle this problem is not worth the cost is simply “sociopathic”, and therefore is an “argument” not worth having. I would assume you would agree?
    I read his take on the article, which was a mischaracterization of the article (as sociopathic), because I also read the article itself. The article wasn’t about lives versus money. It was the social cost (including human hardship, lives, etc.) of measures that we take to save lives from the virus.
    My comment here already states my belief that our short-term sacrifice seems worth it. The more effective the sacrifice will be, the more worth it (and because we have started so late, it’s hard to know how effective it will be).
    It’s not sociopathic, in my opinion, to quantify social cost. For example, there is currently a huge spike in gun sales. Is this a result of fear of the virus, or the reaction to it? Who knows. It’s a difficult thing to quantify, but that’s what economists try to do with data. It’s not sociopathic to try to find out what the costs are of the pandemic and the policies reacting to it.
    Sorting these things out is difficult and takes a long time. But the attempt to do so is not sociopathic.

  60. Please read the squib again. He is pretty clear that he feels those who argue that the price we may have to ultimately pay to effectively battle this problem is not worth the cost is simply “sociopathic”, and therefore is an “argument” not worth having. I would assume you would agree?
    I read his take on the article, which was a mischaracterization of the article (as sociopathic), because I also read the article itself. The article wasn’t about lives versus money. It was the social cost (including human hardship, lives, etc.) of measures that we take to save lives from the virus.
    My comment here already states my belief that our short-term sacrifice seems worth it. The more effective the sacrifice will be, the more worth it (and because we have started so late, it’s hard to know how effective it will be).
    It’s not sociopathic, in my opinion, to quantify social cost. For example, there is currently a huge spike in gun sales. Is this a result of fear of the virus, or the reaction to it? Who knows. It’s a difficult thing to quantify, but that’s what economists try to do with data. It’s not sociopathic to try to find out what the costs are of the pandemic and the policies reacting to it.
    Sorting these things out is difficult and takes a long time. But the attempt to do so is not sociopathic.

  61. It’s not sociopathic to try to find out what the costs are of the pandemic and the policies reacting to it.
    Also, the economists I know are mostly on the left of the political spectrum. Much of their work involves assessing the effectiveness of social policies, not to destroy government assistance, but to make government programs and funding more effective.
    Economists themselves are constantly reassessing how well they evaluate data, and refine techniques and assumptions. The comments to Loomis’s post vilify economics as a discipline, as if people who try to analyze the effectiveness of expensive government policies are ghoulish for doing so. That’s insane and Trumpishly wrong.

  62. It’s not sociopathic to try to find out what the costs are of the pandemic and the policies reacting to it.
    Also, the economists I know are mostly on the left of the political spectrum. Much of their work involves assessing the effectiveness of social policies, not to destroy government assistance, but to make government programs and funding more effective.
    Economists themselves are constantly reassessing how well they evaluate data, and refine techniques and assumptions. The comments to Loomis’s post vilify economics as a discipline, as if people who try to analyze the effectiveness of expensive government policies are ghoulish for doing so. That’s insane and Trumpishly wrong.

  69. BP, I have no issue with waiving the employee piece of FICA taxes as an immediate, consumer-driven stimulus. I do not favor making small businesses bear the cost of CV-caused unemployment, but I do favor unemployment benefits for people who lose their jobs due to CV.
    I am very lucky. My firm can function remotely and no one will be laid off. That said, lay-off’s in this context are due to a lack of revenues to cover payroll. You can’t squeeze water out of a rock. If a business has to shut its doors, trying to force that business to meet its payroll is nonsensical.

  70. BP, I have no issue with waiving the employee piece of FICA taxes as an immediate, consumer-driven stimulus. I do not favor making small businesses bear the cost of CV-caused unemployment, but I do favor unemployment benefits for people who lose their jobs due to CV.
    I am very lucky. My firm can function remotely and no one will be laid off. That said, lay-off’s in this context are due to a lack of revenues to cover payroll. You can’t squeeze water out of a rock. If a business has to shut its doors, trying to force that business to meet its payroll is nonsensical.

  71. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic
    Aaaaaarrgh! Will this gaslighting never cease? Have 40% of Americans gone stark, staring mad?

  72. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic
    Aaaaaarrgh! Will this gaslighting never cease? Have 40% of Americans gone stark, staring mad?

  73. My comment here already states my belief that our short-term sacrifice seems worth it.
    Absolutely. I believe Loomis was disgusted at those who argue otherwise as the headline seems to indicate. I could not get past the pay wall to read the article.
    Thanks. And good luck.

  74. My comment here already states my belief that our short-term sacrifice seems worth it.
    Absolutely. I believe Loomis was disgusted at those who argue otherwise as the headline seems to indicate. I could not get past the pay wall to read the article.
    Thanks. And good luck.

  75. McKinney,
    Waiving the FICA tax will certainly help, but it does not help those who derive most of their income from tips and have basically been laid off.
    SO NO INCOME AT ALL.
    This is an urgent need that should be addressed.
    I also have no objection to assisting businesses that are in absolute distress, and I believe there are provisions in the House bill to do so.
    However, I think the executives/owners should be made to pee in a cup first.
    Fair is fair.
    Two of my projects (at SeaTac airport main terminal) have been shut down. So if it keeps up like this, I will have no work to perform, much less work at home!
    Fortunately, I have the wherwithal to get by in the interim. Many do not have those resources. They need to be made available NOW.

  76. McKinney,
    Waiving the FICA tax will certainly help, but it does not help those who derive most of their income from tips and have basically been laid off.
    SO NO INCOME AT ALL.
    This is an urgent need that should be addressed.
    I also have no objection to assisting businesses that are in absolute distress, and I believe there are provisions in the House bill to do so.
    However, I think the executives/owners should be made to pee in a cup first.
    Fair is fair.
    Two of my projects (at SeaTac airport main terminal) have been shut down. So if it keeps up like this, I will have no work to perform, much less work at home!
    Fortunately, I have the wherwithal to get by in the interim. Many do not have those resources. They need to be made available NOW.

  77. if we can give banks a $2T goose, we should be able to send a few bucks to actual people.
    should.
    i know, it’s socialism when people get money, but not when banks get it. but, maybe this once?

  78. if we can give banks a $2T goose, we should be able to send a few bucks to actual people.
    should.
    i know, it’s socialism when people get money, but not when banks get it. but, maybe this once?

  79. Economists themselves are constantly reassessing how well they evaluate data, and refine techniques and assumptions.
    That should be competent economists. Among whom, Laffer (for example) is clearly not numbered.

  80. Economists themselves are constantly reassessing how well they evaluate data, and refine techniques and assumptions.
    That should be competent economists. Among whom, Laffer (for example) is clearly not numbered.

  81. That should be competent economists. Among whom, Laffer (for example) is clearly not numbered.
    True in any discipline, and we all know that economics has been politicized, and that there are economists who are hired to feed preformed conclusions. But there are plenty of economists in academia and think tanks who are trying to do the hard work.
    Thanks, bobbyp. In my opinion, the article was another headline failure by the NYTimes whose reporters often have it right only to have their work sabotaged by headline writers (an example of another discipline, journalism, that can be excellent and indispensable, but also sometimes a huge disservice).

  82. That should be competent economists. Among whom, Laffer (for example) is clearly not numbered.
    True in any discipline, and we all know that economics has been politicized, and that there are economists who are hired to feed preformed conclusions. But there are plenty of economists in academia and think tanks who are trying to do the hard work.
    Thanks, bobbyp. In my opinion, the article was another headline failure by the NYTimes whose reporters often have it right only to have their work sabotaged by headline writers (an example of another discipline, journalism, that can be excellent and indispensable, but also sometimes a huge disservice).

  87. I’m self-banning.
    To protect yourselves, get rid of that 5:06 pm
    Fuck America.
    [5:06 comment deleted. No more of that please.]

  88. I’m self-banning.
    To protect yourselves, get rid of that 5:06 pm
    Fuck America.
    [5:06 comment deleted. No more of that please.]

  95. My guess is: payroll tax cuts; demand to cut SS and Medicare.
    I’ll just roll with whatever. I know who I’m voting for and it’s not R’s. I hope the D’s can pull off some good ads. If, that is, TV or Internet is still available in the days before the election. Nothing is a given anymore.

  96. My guess is: payroll tax cuts; demand to cut SS and Medicare.
    I’ll just roll with whatever. I know who I’m voting for and it’s not R’s. I hope the D’s can pull off some good ads. If, that is, TV or Internet is still available in the days before the election. Nothing is a given anymore.

  97. “They should be gunned down mercilessly like a fucking gauleiter emerging from the ruins of Dresden with one hand up in mock surrender and a Mauser pistol concealed in the other behind his back.”
    Posted by: John D Thullen | March 17, 2020 at 10:19 AM
    I am a longtime lurker since the days of Publius and Hilzoy.
    Look, I get it, it’s a metaphor, it’s a longtime commenter, it’s just talk. Stress release. I’m not actually worried and I’m sure the mods aren’t either.
    But I don’t know why this is allowed.
    My disgust with Fox news knows no bounds. (Well some bounds apparently.) I get it. I bet my positions are in many cases more out there than John’s. But still.
    Look, if the official position of the people who run the blog is that literal heads on pikes are the only way to fix the current mess… well, then come out and say it. Otherwise why let this slide?
    Christ what did the 5:06 comment say to get deleted

  98. “They should be gunned down mercilessly like a fucking gauleiter emerging from the ruins of Dresden with one hand up in mock surrender and a Mauser pistol concealed in the other behind his back.”
    Posted by: John D Thullen | March 17, 2020 at 10:19 AM
    I am a longtime lurker since the days of Publius and Hilzoy.
    Look, I get it, it’s a metaphor, it’s a longtime commenter, it’s just talk. Stress release. I’m not actually worried and I’m sure the mods aren’t either.
    But I don’t know why this is allowed.
    My disgust with Fox news knows no bounds. (Well some bounds apparently.) I get it. I bet my positions are in many cases more out there than John’s. But still.
    Look, if the official position of the people who run the blog is that literal heads on pikes are the only way to fix the current mess… well, then come out and say it. Otherwise why let this slide?
    Christ what did the 5:06 comment say to get deleted

  101. But I don’t know why this is allowed.
    It’s the Thullen exception.
    Occasionally we ask John to give it a rest. He does so for about a minute, then calls for the slaughter of every conservative on the planet. Again.
    Basically, the only recourse he is giving us is totally banning him, and none of us can bring ourselves to do that. As of yet.
    We pretty much all agree it’s tiresome. And it basically drives some folks away from the site. But we have an affection for the guy. So, it’s the Thullen exception. For now.
    Maybe check out one of the other threads. We’re hoping JDT confines his ire here at “Politics and Insanity”.
    John, please don’t make us ban you. Thank you.
    Christ what did the 5:06 comment say to get deleted
    I’m thinking it was “The Aristocrats”, only featuring the Trump family. With maybe some Putin on the side.
    🙂

  102. But I don’t know why this is allowed.
    It’s the Thullen exception.
    Occasionally we ask John to give it a rest. He does so for about a minute, then calls for the slaughter of every conservative on the planet. Again.
    Basically, the only recourse he is giving us is totally banning him, and none of us can bring ourselves to do that. As of yet.
    We pretty much all agree it’s tiresome. And it basically drives some folks away from the site. But we have an affection for the guy. So, it’s the Thullen exception. For now.
    Maybe check out one of the other threads. We’re hoping JDT confines his ire here at “Politics and Insanity”.
    John, please don’t make us ban you. Thank you.
    Christ what did the 5:06 comment say to get deleted
    I’m thinking it was “The Aristocrats”, only featuring the Trump family. With maybe some Putin on the side.
    🙂

  107. the official position of the people who run the blog
    also, too:
    there are two aspects of your question that assume things that are not in evidence:
    1. somebody (possibly plural) runs this blog
    2. that person or persons has an official position
    we do our best.
    It was asking why no one is telling THEM “no more of this”.
    Been at it for almost 20 years now. “They” don’t appear to be listening.

  108. the official position of the people who run the blog
    also, too:
    there are two aspects of your question that assume things that are not in evidence:
    1. somebody (possibly plural) runs this blog
    2. that person or persons has an official position
    we do our best.
    It was asking why no one is telling THEM “no more of this”.
    Been at it for almost 20 years now. “They” don’t appear to be listening.

  109. when the going gets tough, libertarians cry out for government.
    McArdle:

    To avoid this disastrous outcome, we need to “cancel everything” for some, hopefully short, period of time. But that won’t work unless we ensure that the people who will be most hurt — people and businesses who make things or provide services in a physical location — come through this relatively unscathed.

    Henry Olsen:

    Even most libertarians grant that this is a legitimate government police power that can be used in emergencies to save lives. Everyone expects that government power will recede as the threat is reduced.

    His [Trump’s] cavalier attitude is gone, replaced with a neo-Churchillian resolve to fight the disease wherever it appears and with whatever it takes.

    you’re welcome.

  110. when the going gets tough, libertarians cry out for government.
    McArdle:

    To avoid this disastrous outcome, we need to “cancel everything” for some, hopefully short, period of time. But that won’t work unless we ensure that the people who will be most hurt — people and businesses who make things or provide services in a physical location — come through this relatively unscathed.

    Henry Olsen:

    Even most libertarians grant that this is a legitimate government police power that can be used in emergencies to save lives. Everyone expects that government power will recede as the threat is reduced.

    His [Trump’s] cavalier attitude is gone, replaced with a neo-Churchillian resolve to fight the disease wherever it appears and with whatever it takes.

    you’re welcome.

  113. I just saw that Brazil has decided to postpone their census from this year to 2021. Which naturally raises the question of our census. An election, after all, is only one day; a census has people out knocking on doors for weeks.
    So, will we delay ours? Long enough to delay the decenial redistricting? Now there’s a hot politican question!

  114. I just saw that Brazil has decided to postpone their census from this year to 2021. Which naturally raises the question of our census. An election, after all, is only one day; a census has people out knocking on doors for weeks.
    So, will we delay ours? Long enough to delay the decenial redistricting? Now there’s a hot politican question!

  115. My wife passes along some great marketing she just came across:

    Buy our takeout pizza and get a free roll of TP!

    Brilliant

  116. My wife passes along some great marketing she just came across:

    Buy our takeout pizza and get a free roll of TP!

    Brilliant

  117. Did a BJ’s run today for various staples. The store was completely stocked, except for toilet paper and facial tissues. Of which there were none.
    Shelves probably eight feet high and twenty-five or more feet long. Both sides of the aisle, and then around both corners.
    Empty.
    Toilet paper appears to have assumed some kind of talismanic anti-viral properties in the popular imagination.

  118. Did a BJ’s run today for various staples. The store was completely stocked, except for toilet paper and facial tissues. Of which there were none.
    Shelves probably eight feet high and twenty-five or more feet long. Both sides of the aisle, and then around both corners.
    Empty.
    Toilet paper appears to have assumed some kind of talismanic anti-viral properties in the popular imagination.

  119. I had a Zoom call with a vendor in the Phillipines today who mentioned they did not have toilet paper at work or home. Which was an oddly uncomfortable conversation.

  120. I had a Zoom call with a vendor in the Phillipines today who mentioned they did not have toilet paper at work or home. Which was an oddly uncomfortable conversation.

  121. But still.
    The current manifestation of the republican party is an existential threat to our democracy and to our future. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about? they want to rip up the social contract. they want to unleash the ultimate destruction of global climate change…they just don’t give a fuck.
    right wing media shouts we (you know, us) are moral baby killing monsters that need be squashed like bugs, and i mean literally. they want us purged like Stalin purged the old bolshies…have you never listened to a Limbaugh diatribe? it can sharpen you mind.
    but we cannot return fire? that may not be wise.
    Thanks.

  122. But still.
    The current manifestation of the republican party is an existential threat to our democracy and to our future. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about? they want to rip up the social contract. they want to unleash the ultimate destruction of global climate change…they just don’t give a fuck.
    right wing media shouts we (you know, us) are moral baby killing monsters that need be squashed like bugs, and i mean literally. they want us purged like Stalin purged the old bolshies…have you never listened to a Limbaugh diatribe? it can sharpen you mind.
    but we cannot return fire? that may not be wise.
    Thanks.

  123. Outside of Manila and a few other cities in the Philippines 45 years ago, it was best to carry one’s own toilet paper.
    Try a banana leaf.
    If you asked for toilet paper in a remote barrio, everyone would crack up.
    In Northern Thailand tribal areas, the stout, gnarly-looking black and grey pigs raised by the hill villagers would follow you into the jungle to help out with your toilet, like an invasive, hovering bathroom attendant in a sketchy restaurant.
    During monsoons, especially on some of the outer small islands in the Philippines, after three days there was nothing but rice and maybe a bony fish called Bangus if you were lucky. Maybe a fertilized duck egg. Crunch.
    Got caught in one of those monsoons for eight days once. I felt like I was in a Joseph Conrad novel.
    I drove to a Walmart today on a wild toilet paper chase on the outskirts of Denver, more out of a kind of dystopic curiosity than anything else.
    Nothing. No paper products of any kind. Baby wipes out too, though I picked up a tub of those the other day.
    No bleach. A few diapers. Lots of Depends left, but give it a couple of weeks.
    Charcoal was gone too, oddly enough. People might be headed for the mountains, them thar hills, in their $40,000 mobile campers.
    Without toilet paper, but with plenty of Doritos.
    Food, more or less, was in good pretty good supply.
    Think about it. Lots of food goes in, no toilet paper when it comes out.
    So, this is how it ends. With a giggle.
    Picked up a gallon of Bloody Mary Mix on a whim of fortification, whims apparently still being a thing during the apocalypse. It was a Bloody Mary spree, which of course might be curtailed by the coming martial law.
    The unemployment application hotline went down today in the city of Denver. I hear no one could get through.
    My son working as a Chemistry post-doc at University of Michigan called yesterday to say they’v booted 30,000 undergrads, and he will be out of a job, though still paid, for about six weeks.
    He was going to start applying for jobs this summer. Who knows now.
    He just got over the regular flu (and is fine now) and is going to drive back in a couple of weeks. But he’s going to quarantine himself, being a responsible scientist, for two weeks so that he doesn’t come back here and give his parents something.
    I’m getting over the flu myself, I hope, but if I’m still sniffling or coughing when he returns, I’ll forgo seeing him.

  124. Outside of Manila and a few other cities in the Philippines 45 years ago, it was best to carry one’s own toilet paper.
    Try a banana leaf.
    If you asked for toilet paper in a remote barrio, everyone would crack up.
    In Northern Thailand tribal areas, the stout, gnarly-looking black and grey pigs raised by the hill villagers would follow you into the jungle to help out with your toilet, like an invasive, hovering bathroom attendant in a sketchy restaurant.
    During monsoons, especially on some of the outer small islands in the Philippines, after three days there was nothing but rice and maybe a bony fish called Bangus if you were lucky. Maybe a fertilized duck egg. Crunch.
    Got caught in one of those monsoons for eight days once. I felt like I was in a Joseph Conrad novel.
    I drove to a Walmart today on a wild toilet paper chase on the outskirts of Denver, more out of a kind of dystopic curiosity than anything else.
    Nothing. No paper products of any kind. Baby wipes out too, though I picked up a tub of those the other day.
    No bleach. A few diapers. Lots of Depends left, but give it a couple of weeks.
    Charcoal was gone too, oddly enough. People might be headed for the mountains, them thar hills, in their $40,000 mobile campers.
    Without toilet paper, but with plenty of Doritos.
    Food, more or less, was in good pretty good supply.
    Think about it. Lots of food goes in, no toilet paper when it comes out.
    So, this is how it ends. With a giggle.
    Picked up a gallon of Bloody Mary Mix on a whim of fortification, whims apparently still being a thing during the apocalypse. It was a Bloody Mary spree, which of course might be curtailed by the coming martial law.
    The unemployment application hotline went down today in the city of Denver. I hear no one could get through.
    My son working as a Chemistry post-doc at University of Michigan called yesterday to say they’v booted 30,000 undergrads, and he will be out of a job, though still paid, for about six weeks.
    He was going to start applying for jobs this summer. Who knows now.
    He just got over the regular flu (and is fine now) and is going to drive back in a couple of weeks. But he’s going to quarantine himself, being a responsible scientist, for two weeks so that he doesn’t come back here and give his parents something.
    I’m getting over the flu myself, I hope, but if I’m still sniffling or coughing when he returns, I’ll forgo seeing him.

  125. What the libertarians refuse to understand is that starving government 95% of the time means it doesn’t have the resources to ramp up for the 5% of the time you decide maybe having a government is a good idea.
    Enormous nation-wide emergency programs are not spun from thin air, but depend on having the people, money, equipment, and planning already in place.
    Take the pandemic task force, for instance…

  126. What the libertarians refuse to understand is that starving government 95% of the time means it doesn’t have the resources to ramp up for the 5% of the time you decide maybe having a government is a good idea.
    Enormous nation-wide emergency programs are not spun from thin air, but depend on having the people, money, equipment, and planning already in place.
    Take the pandemic task force, for instance…

  129. “What the libertarians refuse to understand is that starving government 95% of the time means it doesn’t have the resources to ramp up for the 5% of the time”
    If you mean libertarians, republicans, and the conservative movement, no, they not only understand it, it was the plan.
    They’ve done it.
    Check your bathtub. You’ll find a tiny skeleton.
    Taxes are slavery. Taxes are theft.

  130. “What the libertarians refuse to understand is that starving government 95% of the time means it doesn’t have the resources to ramp up for the 5% of the time”
    If you mean libertarians, republicans, and the conservative movement, no, they not only understand it, it was the plan.
    They’ve done it.
    Check your bathtub. You’ll find a tiny skeleton.
    Taxes are slavery. Taxes are theft.

  131. On the spending side, except for government functions they cut to the bone like EPA and such, they spend like crazy and then expect Democrats, if they ever win a fair vote again, to clean up the spending spills on all of the other spending aisles.
    You think anyone is going to propose a limit on the debt ceiling at the moment, except for Rand Paul, who has the exquisite timing of a sociopath.
    McConnell will say on day one of Biden’s Presidency that he’s going to shut down the government by refusing to lift the debt ceiling.
    If Trump wins, besides Armageddon cresting like a tidal wave over us, he will default on the debt.
    Read Michael Lewis’ “The Fifth Risk”.
    Stiffing borrowers is Trump’s one true competence.
    He was born for the role.
    Even I find myself tiresome, pretty much.
    I hear a ceaseless drone in my ears, and it turns out to be my voice.

  132. On the spending side, except for government functions they cut to the bone like EPA and such, they spend like crazy and then expect Democrats, if they ever win a fair vote again, to clean up the spending spills on all of the other spending aisles.
    You think anyone is going to propose a limit on the debt ceiling at the moment, except for Rand Paul, who has the exquisite timing of a sociopath.
    McConnell will say on day one of Biden’s Presidency that he’s going to shut down the government by refusing to lift the debt ceiling.
    If Trump wins, besides Armageddon cresting like a tidal wave over us, he will default on the debt.
    Read Michael Lewis’ “The Fifth Risk”.
    Stiffing borrowers is Trump’s one true competence.
    He was born for the role.
    Even I find myself tiresome, pretty much.
    I hear a ceaseless drone in my ears, and it turns out to be my voice.

  133. In the likeness of Hunter Thompson, we are living in heinous times.
    The forked tongues of the conservative movement waggle at us like accusatory giblets.
    “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
    “Objective journalism is one of the main reasons that American politics has been allowed to be so corrupt for so long.”
    More if you need it.
    https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/hunter-s-thompson-quotes
    Print it out. You might need it for toilet paper.

  134. In the likeness of Hunter Thompson, we are living in heinous times.
    The forked tongues of the conservative movement waggle at us like accusatory giblets.
    “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
    “Objective journalism is one of the main reasons that American politics has been allowed to be so corrupt for so long.”
    More if you need it.
    https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/hunter-s-thompson-quotes
    Print it out. You might need it for toilet paper.

  135. Donald John Trump:
    “They tell me I have enormous powers. The Constitution says I can do whatever I want as President”

  136. Donald John Trump:
    “They tell me I have enormous powers. The Constitution says I can do whatever I want as President”

  139. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about?
    Who the hell around here isn’t upset? That’s got fuck-all to do with JDT’s endless vomit of useless wanking about “K and B and S,” which at best diverts energy and attention from the real work that needs to be done.
    but we cannot return fire? that may not be wise.
    “Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind. Above all, “Returning fire” in the form of explicitly calling for the killing of specific people isn’t going to hurt them. If it hurts anyone, it’s going to hurt us, Section 230 notwithstanding. IMO it already has.
    GftNC’s (apologies for using your comment to make this point) comment at 2:58 yesterday made me realize the extent to which keeping us in a state of constant outrage is the point. It’s the point of everything Clickbait says and of every outrageous harangue that spews from the voices on right wing radio.
    They want their side to hate us, yes, but they also want to make sure we keep being outraged, because outrage is the opposite of inspiring, or energizing. It’s either useless, or worse, it makes us more likely to do stupid things that ricochet back and hurt us instead of them. It claims and then drains our attention, and saps our energy. It lessens the chance that we will figure out effective countermeasures and leaves us sputtering inanities that hurt no one but ourselves.
    And now JDT will spend the next three days subtly, or maybe unsubtly, mocking this comment, as he did with “vermin” a couple of months ago and “no more of this” yesterday.
    Have fun wanking, JDT, because apparently that’s what we’re here for now.
    To commenter Dave, who delurked momentarily, apparently to no avail: thanks for trying.

  140. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about?
    Who the hell around here isn’t upset? That’s got fuck-all to do with JDT’s endless vomit of useless wanking about “K and B and S,” which at best diverts energy and attention from the real work that needs to be done.
    but we cannot return fire? that may not be wise.
    “Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind. Above all, “Returning fire” in the form of explicitly calling for the killing of specific people isn’t going to hurt them. If it hurts anyone, it’s going to hurt us, Section 230 notwithstanding. IMO it already has.
    GftNC’s (apologies for using your comment to make this point) comment at 2:58 yesterday made me realize the extent to which keeping us in a state of constant outrage is the point. It’s the point of everything Clickbait says and of every outrageous harangue that spews from the voices on right wing radio.
    They want their side to hate us, yes, but they also want to make sure we keep being outraged, because outrage is the opposite of inspiring, or energizing. It’s either useless, or worse, it makes us more likely to do stupid things that ricochet back and hurt us instead of them. It claims and then drains our attention, and saps our energy. It lessens the chance that we will figure out effective countermeasures and leaves us sputtering inanities that hurt no one but ourselves.
    And now JDT will spend the next three days subtly, or maybe unsubtly, mocking this comment, as he did with “vermin” a couple of months ago and “no more of this” yesterday.
    Have fun wanking, JDT, because apparently that’s what we’re here for now.
    To commenter Dave, who delurked momentarily, apparently to no avail: thanks for trying.

  143. Toilet paper appears to have assumed some kind of talismanic anti-viral properties in the popular imagination.
    it’s amazing.
    there’s no shortage on the producer end – Georgia Pacific is still cranking it out the way they always have. the problem is all in the minds of the people who are somehow convinced there isn’t going to be any more to buy. and to prove themselves right, they’re creating the very shortage they’re worried about by buying all they can carry.

  144. Toilet paper appears to have assumed some kind of talismanic anti-viral properties in the popular imagination.
    it’s amazing.
    there’s no shortage on the producer end – Georgia Pacific is still cranking it out the way they always have. the problem is all in the minds of the people who are somehow convinced there isn’t going to be any more to buy. and to prove themselves right, they’re creating the very shortage they’re worried about by buying all they can carry.

  145. “We pretty much all agree it’s tiresome. And it basically drives some folks away from the site. But we have an affection for the guy. So, it’s the Thullen exception. For now.”
    Fair enough, I don’t comment here so I don’t really have any say.
    “I’d like to hear those positions.”
    There’s a reason I’m a lurker! I don’t have the time management skills to devote to the long comments that my mania would require.
    “The current manifestation of the republican party is an existential threat to our democracy and to our future. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about? …
    but we cannot return fire?”
    I guess I agree that violent rhetoric (action?) could be acceptable (appropriate? morally required?) in some circumstances. But I have no idea where that line is, and we just had an earthquake here, so I’m not gonna think about it at the moment

  146. “We pretty much all agree it’s tiresome. And it basically drives some folks away from the site. But we have an affection for the guy. So, it’s the Thullen exception. For now.”
    Fair enough, I don’t comment here so I don’t really have any say.
    “I’d like to hear those positions.”
    There’s a reason I’m a lurker! I don’t have the time management skills to devote to the long comments that my mania would require.
    “The current manifestation of the republican party is an existential threat to our democracy and to our future. If you can’t get upset about that, well, what will you get upset about? …
    but we cannot return fire?”
    I guess I agree that violent rhetoric (action?) could be acceptable (appropriate? morally required?) in some circumstances. But I have no idea where that line is, and we just had an earthquake here, so I’m not gonna think about it at the moment

  147. Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind.
    Amen, sister, amen.

  148. Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind.
    Amen, sister, amen.

  151. Thanks, Janie.
    Fourthed, with feeling. And no need for apologies, feel free to use me as a cautionary tale/example anytime you want!

  152. Thanks, Janie.
    Fourthed, with feeling. And no need for apologies, feel free to use me as a cautionary tale/example anytime you want!

  153. So, the federal government is beginning to respond to the economic impacts of the pandemic. Some of it helpful, some of it harmful, all of it expensive.
    “The plan also specifies that checks will be sent in the style of Universal Basic Income (UBI). The measure, popularized by Andrew Yang during his run in the Democratic presidential primaries, reached bipartisan consensus this week when Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) declared his support for cutting everyone a check. As it stands, the stimulus allots $500 billion to be distributed to Americans in two payments, with the amount tiered based on income and family size, disbursed on April 8 and May 16.”
    $1 Trillion Coronavirus Stimulus Unveiled: Corporate Bailouts and Loans, Checks for All: The package seeks to curb the economic chaos caused by COVID-19.
    Checks directly from the government will defiantly help a lot of individuals. But it may increase inflation as more money chases few goods.
    In the meantime, “WHERE’S MY CHECK!”

  154. So, the federal government is beginning to respond to the economic impacts of the pandemic. Some of it helpful, some of it harmful, all of it expensive.
    “The plan also specifies that checks will be sent in the style of Universal Basic Income (UBI). The measure, popularized by Andrew Yang during his run in the Democratic presidential primaries, reached bipartisan consensus this week when Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) declared his support for cutting everyone a check. As it stands, the stimulus allots $500 billion to be distributed to Americans in two payments, with the amount tiered based on income and family size, disbursed on April 8 and May 16.”
    $1 Trillion Coronavirus Stimulus Unveiled: Corporate Bailouts and Loans, Checks for All: The package seeks to curb the economic chaos caused by COVID-19.
    Checks directly from the government will defiantly help a lot of individuals. But it may increase inflation as more money chases few goods.
    In the meantime, “WHERE’S MY CHECK!”

  155. it may increase inflation as more money chases few goods
    I thought the whole point of those one-time payments was to replace money which would no longer be circulating. Those who really need it (i.e. working low pay jobs which may well be gone currently) will not be spending more — it will be the same (actually less) money chasing the same goods. And those who don’t need it won’t actually be spending that much more.
    You might have a case if it was being set up as a recurring program. But as a one-time thing? Can’t really see much inflation risk.

  156. it may increase inflation as more money chases few goods
    I thought the whole point of those one-time payments was to replace money which would no longer be circulating. Those who really need it (i.e. working low pay jobs which may well be gone currently) will not be spending more — it will be the same (actually less) money chasing the same goods. And those who don’t need it won’t actually be spending that much more.
    You might have a case if it was being set up as a recurring program. But as a one-time thing? Can’t really see much inflation risk.

  157. I understand the importance of returning fire. I also think that fire discipline is an important trait; go figure -Ph.D. in rhetoric and a concentration in the rhetoric of violence.
    Audience is everything.
    Returning fire here does not fire for effect; to get Lefties to respond to this sort of volley you need an audience more like DU. And you can’t really engage fire against concentrations of RWNJs. Going to a forum where there are lots of RW inflammatories only gets one banned for not being Of The People. That leaves precious few venues where left and right are still engaged, and pretty much none of them can do what they do with a constant barrage of saber rattling.
    I do live in fear of the moment when the center torso mass of the Left decides it is done with the constant calls for violent political action and purification on the right and decides to call. We’ve talked enough about the historical predecessors here to know that will be an ugly patch for all involved.

  158. I understand the importance of returning fire. I also think that fire discipline is an important trait; go figure -Ph.D. in rhetoric and a concentration in the rhetoric of violence.
    Audience is everything.
    Returning fire here does not fire for effect; to get Lefties to respond to this sort of volley you need an audience more like DU. And you can’t really engage fire against concentrations of RWNJs. Going to a forum where there are lots of RW inflammatories only gets one banned for not being Of The People. That leaves precious few venues where left and right are still engaged, and pretty much none of them can do what they do with a constant barrage of saber rattling.
    I do live in fear of the moment when the center torso mass of the Left decides it is done with the constant calls for violent political action and purification on the right and decides to call. We’ve talked enough about the historical predecessors here to know that will be an ugly patch for all involved.

  163. Some of it helpful, some of it harmful, all of it expensive.
    Sounds like normal every day life, to me.

  164. Some of it helpful, some of it harmful, all of it expensive.
    Sounds like normal every day life, to me.

  165. Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind.
    So, when FDR said, “I welcome their hatred” he was just acting stupid?
    To my way of thinking, it was a clear shot across the bow. But maybe we have difference concepts of what constitutes fire.
    Thanks.

  166. Returning fire” by acting as stupid as they do just means that the whole world, instead of only half of it, has lost its mind.
    So, when FDR said, “I welcome their hatred” he was just acting stupid?
    To my way of thinking, it was a clear shot across the bow. But maybe we have difference concepts of what constitutes fire.
    Thanks.

  167. “I welcome their hatred” is just the same as saying “their contempt is a badge of honour to honorable men”. It is not calling for, or threatening violence.

  168. “I welcome their hatred” is just the same as saying “their contempt is a badge of honour to honorable men”. It is not calling for, or threatening violence.

  169. Not that I know who FDR was talking about, or the circumstances in which he said it. OK, I’m going to shut up now.

  170. Not that I know who FDR was talking about, or the circumstances in which he said it. OK, I’m going to shut up now.

  171. What is DU?
    Yes, Democratic Underground and the like. Any forum that trends towards reading and nodding along with the latest Jacobin op ed.
    Which, you know, good on ya. I’m glad they care deeply about the things they care deeply about. The left is utter crap at unified fronts. That’s why it takes more of us. But you need someone around to make the threepers think twice.
    It’s the duel from The 13th Warrior:
    Herger the Joyous: Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it since we arrived. Now he has to calculate what he can’t see.
    Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: And fear… what he doesn’t know.
    [Herger makes a head-smacking gesture]

  172. What is DU?
    Yes, Democratic Underground and the like. Any forum that trends towards reading and nodding along with the latest Jacobin op ed.
    Which, you know, good on ya. I’m glad they care deeply about the things they care deeply about. The left is utter crap at unified fronts. That’s why it takes more of us. But you need someone around to make the threepers think twice.
    It’s the duel from The 13th Warrior:
    Herger the Joyous: Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it since we arrived. Now he has to calculate what he can’t see.
    Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: And fear… what he doesn’t know.
    [Herger makes a head-smacking gesture]

  173. I do live in fear of the moment when the center torso mass of the Left decides it is done with the constant calls for violent political action and purification on the right and decides to call.
    I, for one do not currently share such a fear. The “center torso” of this “left”, let us call them Sanders supporters just to try and get a handle on things, constitutes perhaps 1/3 of politically active participants in the Democratic Party, i.e., sizable, but still a distinct minority. The “leftier left” Greens, etc., is pretty small potatoes, and hardly violence prone. The ‘revolutionary left’ (let us call them ‘marxists’) is, well let us be frank, pretty much politically irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. Sure, there are the “anti-fas”. Again, for now this is small stuff.
    I look to late stage Weimar for a kind of inexact parallel. Very inexact. But it cannot be denied that extreme times may call for extreme measures. I hope we win the political battle and don’t find ourselves in that terrible situation.
    But the right has made manifest their will to power, their ruthlessness, and their proclivity for violence.
    If it comes to that, what is the proper response?

  174. I do live in fear of the moment when the center torso mass of the Left decides it is done with the constant calls for violent political action and purification on the right and decides to call.
    I, for one do not currently share such a fear. The “center torso” of this “left”, let us call them Sanders supporters just to try and get a handle on things, constitutes perhaps 1/3 of politically active participants in the Democratic Party, i.e., sizable, but still a distinct minority. The “leftier left” Greens, etc., is pretty small potatoes, and hardly violence prone. The ‘revolutionary left’ (let us call them ‘marxists’) is, well let us be frank, pretty much politically irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. Sure, there are the “anti-fas”. Again, for now this is small stuff.
    I look to late stage Weimar for a kind of inexact parallel. Very inexact. But it cannot be denied that extreme times may call for extreme measures. I hope we win the political battle and don’t find ourselves in that terrible situation.
    But the right has made manifest their will to power, their ruthlessness, and their proclivity for violence.
    If it comes to that, what is the proper response?

  175. If it comes to that, what is the proper response?
    If we don’t have the tools of government (as Lincoln did), we don’t have a response.
    I want to have a response, and I want to be able to “fight”. We should have a shadow government right now, but we don’t. Without winning the election, or without a shadow government that can govern in defiance of those in nominal power, we have nothing.
    I was not disappointed in Obama. I was not disappointed in the Hillary Clinton campaign. I have been disappointed in the fact that we don’t have a structured alternative now, something that we can support “if it comes to that”. Because it actually has come to that, hasn’t it?

  176. If it comes to that, what is the proper response?
    If we don’t have the tools of government (as Lincoln did), we don’t have a response.
    I want to have a response, and I want to be able to “fight”. We should have a shadow government right now, but we don’t. Without winning the election, or without a shadow government that can govern in defiance of those in nominal power, we have nothing.
    I was not disappointed in Obama. I was not disappointed in the Hillary Clinton campaign. I have been disappointed in the fact that we don’t have a structured alternative now, something that we can support “if it comes to that”. Because it actually has come to that, hasn’t it?

  177. Just to follow on my 10:13, I think that blue states have been stepping up to a large extent, and that is something we can support. Governors.

  178. Just to follow on my 10:13, I think that blue states have been stepping up to a large extent, and that is something we can support. Governors.

  179. The left is utter crap at unified fronts.
    LOL. I am reminded of the Monty Python Popular People’s Front of Judea. Yes, they are terrible at that. It could be said that the worst thing about the “Left” is leftists.
    But I would take pains to remind that in unsettled times it is the center and center right that typically caves to the far right.
    The lure of ‘normalcy’ is highly attractive.

  180. The left is utter crap at unified fronts.
    LOL. I am reminded of the Monty Python Popular People’s Front of Judea. Yes, they are terrible at that. It could be said that the worst thing about the “Left” is leftists.
    But I would take pains to remind that in unsettled times it is the center and center right that typically caves to the far right.
    The lure of ‘normalcy’ is highly attractive.

  181. nous — not for the first time of asking, how about a guest post sometime on the rhetoric of violence, or conflict work, or whatever you might care to focus on?

  182. nous — not for the first time of asking, how about a guest post sometime on the rhetoric of violence, or conflict work, or whatever you might care to focus on?

  183. It’s not even just the blue states. All the governors have had to step up, simply because the Federal government, or at least those in charge, were determined to ignore the whole (inconvenient to them) thing. Governors didn’t have that luxury.
    When we are past this, the governors and the state governments will be a big part of why it wasn’t much worse.

  184. It’s not even just the blue states. All the governors have had to step up, simply because the Federal government, or at least those in charge, were determined to ignore the whole (inconvenient to them) thing. Governors didn’t have that luxury.
    When we are past this, the governors and the state governments will be a big part of why it wasn’t much worse.

  185. OK, I’m going to shut up now.
    LOL. Me too. See all in a couple weeks. I will watch the circus and contain my rage for a bit.
    Take care.

  186. OK, I’m going to shut up now.
    LOL. Me too. See all in a couple weeks. I will watch the circus and contain my rage for a bit.
    Take care.

  189. Thanks, bobbyp.
    “I welcome their hatred” is just the same as saying “their contempt is a badge of honour to honorable men”. It is not calling for, or threatening violence.
    Perhaps I should have been clearer: these are insults, not threats, let alone of violence.
    Regarding the necessity, or validity, of violence in the cause of defending democracy, I hope my support for e.g. the ANC in the past has made it clear that I do not oppose it in principle, or in fact in practice when necessary. But endless “threat-porn” (as one might term it) does absolutely nothing to advance any cause, and only endangers both the threatener and the audience.

  190. Thanks, bobbyp.
    “I welcome their hatred” is just the same as saying “their contempt is a badge of honour to honorable men”. It is not calling for, or threatening violence.
    Perhaps I should have been clearer: these are insults, not threats, let alone of violence.
    Regarding the necessity, or validity, of violence in the cause of defending democracy, I hope my support for e.g. the ANC in the past has made it clear that I do not oppose it in principle, or in fact in practice when necessary. But endless “threat-porn” (as one might term it) does absolutely nothing to advance any cause, and only endangers both the threatener and the audience.

  193. Thanks for the clarity in your 8:50 and elsewhere, GftNC.
    bobbyp’s position might make a shred of sense to me if we had spent the past three years talking about crocheting and tea cakes, and as soon as someone popped up to say “Hey, Rs, we don’t like you,” that person got told to shut up and be nice.
    In fact, we (speaking loosely) have done almost nothing for three years but fire “shots across the bow.” We had the Mueller report. We had an impeachment! “We” have all sorts of nasty names for Rs, that make “the Democrat party” look tame.
    It’s not like the other side doesn’t know how much we hate their guts.
    So to pretend that there’s some kind of fatal-to-the-cause censorship going on when someone asks that we not be subjected to a constant stream of threat and violence porn seems a little…strange.
    For the record, the speech in which FDR said “I welcome their hatred.”

  194. Thanks for the clarity in your 8:50 and elsewhere, GftNC.
    bobbyp’s position might make a shred of sense to me if we had spent the past three years talking about crocheting and tea cakes, and as soon as someone popped up to say “Hey, Rs, we don’t like you,” that person got told to shut up and be nice.
    In fact, we (speaking loosely) have done almost nothing for three years but fire “shots across the bow.” We had the Mueller report. We had an impeachment! “We” have all sorts of nasty names for Rs, that make “the Democrat party” look tame.
    It’s not like the other side doesn’t know how much we hate their guts.
    So to pretend that there’s some kind of fatal-to-the-cause censorship going on when someone asks that we not be subjected to a constant stream of threat and violence porn seems a little…strange.
    For the record, the speech in which FDR said “I welcome their hatred.”

  199. threat-porn
    Brilliant!!
    I was merely riffing on Janie’s “wanking” theme…

  200. threat-porn
    Brilliant!!
    I was merely riffing on Janie’s “wanking” theme…

  211. But Trump-level confidence that the law doesn’t apply to him.
    As I understand it, it doesn’t. Unless I’m mistaken, members of Congress are exempt from insider trading laws. I’d be delighted to find that that was an urban legend of some kind.
    It’s not really that hard to understand why a lot of people are cynical about government.

  212. But Trump-level confidence that the law doesn’t apply to him.
    As I understand it, it doesn’t. Unless I’m mistaken, members of Congress are exempt from insider trading laws. I’d be delighted to find that that was an urban legend of some kind.
    It’s not really that hard to understand why a lot of people are cynical about government.

  215. Burr will not be held accountable in any way for what is obviously an act of using privileged information for his own financial benefit, and sharing it with others to do likewise.
    That is the definition of corruption.
    Since this is the politics and insanity thread…
    This country is in thrall to money. By which I mean extraordinary personal wealth. We worship the golden calf.
    It will be our undoing.

  216. Burr will not be held accountable in any way for what is obviously an act of using privileged information for his own financial benefit, and sharing it with others to do likewise.
    That is the definition of corruption.
    Since this is the politics and insanity thread…
    This country is in thrall to money. By which I mean extraordinary personal wealth. We worship the golden calf.
    It will be our undoing.

  217. Former Rep. Chris Collins is about to go to prison for an insider trading scheme that involved sharing information with his relatives. The hardest step in such cases is usually proving that the relatives actually took action based on the information (when the pros do insider trading, they spend considerable effort building a story about how their purchases/sales were motivated by public information). The Collins bunch were apparently pretty sloppy about leaving evidence about.
    There’s part of me that is less upset by our Congress critters committing crimes than that they invariably turn out to be really bad at it.

  218. Former Rep. Chris Collins is about to go to prison for an insider trading scheme that involved sharing information with his relatives. The hardest step in such cases is usually proving that the relatives actually took action based on the information (when the pros do insider trading, they spend considerable effort building a story about how their purchases/sales were motivated by public information). The Collins bunch were apparently pretty sloppy about leaving evidence about.
    There’s part of me that is less upset by our Congress critters committing crimes than that they invariably turn out to be really bad at it.

  219. “It will be our undoing.”
    We’re undone.
    Burr has stolen a quarter of my wealth from me, thus far.
    Leave that aside. I’ll wank over that later.
    He is guilty, as is the entire conservative movement, in the murder of Americans, even possible my son; we don’t know yet, do we?
    He and his family are the vector, the pigs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLUzF8HRwUI
    He is the cute monkey; watch as he emerges from the trees. He and the entire conservative movement are the vector of Death to America:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6cRw6CU7l0
    I’m on your side, Janie.

  220. “It will be our undoing.”
    We’re undone.
    Burr has stolen a quarter of my wealth from me, thus far.
    Leave that aside. I’ll wank over that later.
    He is guilty, as is the entire conservative movement, in the murder of Americans, even possible my son; we don’t know yet, do we?
    He and his family are the vector, the pigs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLUzF8HRwUI
    He is the cute monkey; watch as he emerges from the trees. He and the entire conservative movement are the vector of Death to America:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6cRw6CU7l0
    I’m on your side, Janie.

  223. Burr witnessed the fire set in the theater.
    He got himself out, didn’t yell fire, didn’t evacuate the victims, didn’t call the fire department, and stood across the street eating popcorn and watched humans burn to death.
    He may have locked the doors from the outside.

  224. Burr witnessed the fire set in the theater.
    He got himself out, didn’t yell fire, didn’t evacuate the victims, didn’t call the fire department, and stood across the street eating popcorn and watched humans burn to death.
    He may have locked the doors from the outside.

  227. Her husband is the Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, the trading floor of which is now closed and where normal Americans have had trouble catching a bid:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/pandemic-profiteers
    “a certain amount of sense”
    Himmler complained to the German high command too that the trains heading east were running behind schedule and he needed more resources.
    Elements of Carlson’s favorite gummint agency, ICE, are now infected and vectors. They will infect the children they have kidnapped and imprisoned.
    We won’t hear how many of the children die. Their bodies will be disappeared.

  228. Her husband is the Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, the trading floor of which is now closed and where normal Americans have had trouble catching a bid:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/pandemic-profiteers
    “a certain amount of sense”
    Himmler complained to the German high command too that the trains heading east were running behind schedule and he needed more resources.
    Elements of Carlson’s favorite gummint agency, ICE, are now infected and vectors. They will infect the children they have kidnapped and imprisoned.
    We won’t hear how many of the children die. Their bodies will be disappeared.

  229. And now they are three:
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/03/us-senators-engaged-in-a-whirlwind-of-stock-sales-last-month/
    Inhofe too.
    It’s a mere failure of imagination on my part that I didn’t finger him first.
    He’ll be selling the rest of his holdings too after the White House briefs him on the latest consequences of global climate change.
    Profiting from human misery is the catechism of the all-American Christian Prosperity Gospel.
    Dreher believes American Christians will be the true victims of the fury that is coming.
    Which is why we are seeing the full-scale pivot, now only a week old and fully memed, by the entire American conservative movement to the “Chinese Flu”.
    The conservative republican movement always has another nigger to scare out of the woodpile.
    I can’t think why that would be.

  230. And now they are three:
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/03/us-senators-engaged-in-a-whirlwind-of-stock-sales-last-month/
    Inhofe too.
    It’s a mere failure of imagination on my part that I didn’t finger him first.
    He’ll be selling the rest of his holdings too after the White House briefs him on the latest consequences of global climate change.
    Profiting from human misery is the catechism of the all-American Christian Prosperity Gospel.
    Dreher believes American Christians will be the true victims of the fury that is coming.
    Which is why we are seeing the full-scale pivot, now only a week old and fully memed, by the entire American conservative movement to the “Chinese Flu”.
    The conservative republican movement always has another nigger to scare out of the woodpile.
    I can’t think why that would be.

  231. To be fair at this late date, it will not surprise me to learn that Democratic pols are also Evil, because both sides do it self-dealing is in the American DNA, passed along in our mother’s milk.

  232. To be fair at this late date, it will not surprise me to learn that Democratic pols are also Evil, because both sides do it self-dealing is in the American DNA, passed along in our mother’s milk.

  235. The only way she can save herself is to switch political parties and then McConnell will protect her under his impregnable cloak of EVIL.

  236. The only way she can save herself is to switch political parties and then McConnell will protect her under his impregnable cloak of EVIL.

  239. Callow, glib conservative opportunist initiates her campaign for high political office:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/e5ad864e-9f40-3388-aafe-d36e4ec938e9/boeing-director-nikki-haley.html
    Her recent stock sales as a Board Member need to be examined.
    Also, her votes on Boeing’s stock buybacks since she has been a Director.
    Will she return the bribes she was paid by Boeing?
    She doesn’t mean a word of it.
    Look here, from Wikipedia:
    “On February 26, 2019, it was announced that Haley had been nominated to the board of directors of Boeing. She was elected at the annual shareholder meeting on April 29.[138][139] Critics have alleged that the position at Boeing may have been offered to Haley due to favorable official actions she took with regard to Boeing while in office in South Carolina.[140] Boeing board members earn “a minimum annual compensation of $315,000 as of 2017, the most recent figures available in a regulatory filing.”[141] On March 19, 2020 Haley stepped down from the Board of Directors stating her disagreement with the board over a Government bailout during the global coronavirus crisis.”
    Not a word: No conservative is going to let a major supplier to the Defense Department go under:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/269000/percentage-of-company-revenue-in-boeings-defense-space-security-segment/
    Plus, she lost just lost the votes of company’s 145,000 employees.
    If there is one country from which immigration should be curtailed, it is India.
    Think of the number of Asian Indians seeded throughout the destructive American conservative movement.
    If anything, we should be providing sanctuary to the Muslim refugees being murdered by Trump lackey Modi.

  240. Callow, glib conservative opportunist initiates her campaign for high political office:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/e5ad864e-9f40-3388-aafe-d36e4ec938e9/boeing-director-nikki-haley.html
    Her recent stock sales as a Board Member need to be examined.
    Also, her votes on Boeing’s stock buybacks since she has been a Director.
    Will she return the bribes she was paid by Boeing?
    She doesn’t mean a word of it.
    Look here, from Wikipedia:
    “On February 26, 2019, it was announced that Haley had been nominated to the board of directors of Boeing. She was elected at the annual shareholder meeting on April 29.[138][139] Critics have alleged that the position at Boeing may have been offered to Haley due to favorable official actions she took with regard to Boeing while in office in South Carolina.[140] Boeing board members earn “a minimum annual compensation of $315,000 as of 2017, the most recent figures available in a regulatory filing.”[141] On March 19, 2020 Haley stepped down from the Board of Directors stating her disagreement with the board over a Government bailout during the global coronavirus crisis.”
    Not a word: No conservative is going to let a major supplier to the Defense Department go under:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/269000/percentage-of-company-revenue-in-boeings-defense-space-security-segment/
    Plus, she lost just lost the votes of company’s 145,000 employees.
    If there is one country from which immigration should be curtailed, it is India.
    Think of the number of Asian Indians seeded throughout the destructive American conservative movement.
    If anything, we should be providing sanctuary to the Muslim refugees being murdered by Trump lackey Modi.

  241. According to at least one comment, Feinstein (and/or her husband) sold their stock after it had begun to tank (30%), so (if true) this would be a wee bit different from the GOPsters mentioned. Still would wish for a closer inspection of all cases.

  242. According to at least one comment, Feinstein (and/or her husband) sold their stock after it had begun to tank (30%), so (if true) this would be a wee bit different from the GOPsters mentioned. Still would wish for a closer inspection of all cases.

  243. “lol”
    The Constitution’s 28th Amendment
    The conservative movement’s 12th Commandment (the murderers’ have been looking for another one since Reagan’s 11th)
    America’s epitaph
    _____________
    Hartmut wrote:
    “this would be a wee bit different”
    No matter what a Democrat does, they can never measure up to America’s and the conservative movement’s extraordinarily high and rigorous standards.

  244. “lol”
    The Constitution’s 28th Amendment
    The conservative movement’s 12th Commandment (the murderers’ have been looking for another one since Reagan’s 11th)
    America’s epitaph
    _____________
    Hartmut wrote:
    “this would be a wee bit different”
    No matter what a Democrat does, they can never measure up to America’s and the conservative movement’s extraordinarily high and rigorous standards.

  253. Senator Burr may have hoped that, if he couldn’t stay under the radar, at least he wouldn’t go high profile. But it appears that his misbehavior is going front page, and not just in the Washington Post.
    I guess he’ll have his fortune to console himself with if he gets booted out of the Senate. Unless the United States Attorney decides that it’s worth prosecuting him. Because, the more I read the clearer it is, what he did violates the letter (not to mention the spirit) of the law. Oops.

  254. Senator Burr may have hoped that, if he couldn’t stay under the radar, at least he wouldn’t go high profile. But it appears that his misbehavior is going front page, and not just in the Washington Post.
    I guess he’ll have his fortune to console himself with if he gets booted out of the Senate. Unless the United States Attorney decides that it’s worth prosecuting him. Because, the more I read the clearer it is, what he did violates the letter (not to mention the spirit) of the law. Oops.

  265. https://digbysblog.net/2020/03/the-political-divide-in-the-age-of-coronavirus/
    At some point, someone will construct a unified paranoid conspiracy theory to account for what is happening to us that posits that Trump and his “loved” ones and loyalists have already been vaccinated against the virus …. there will be much more.
    It will most likely not be true, but since Truth, this Kerouakean, bacteria-level gone thing poked and prodded by the likes of Socrates, Aristotle, Kant, Hume, Walker Percy, John Cleese and Dr. Irwin Corey over the course of millenniums is merely a deconstructed excremental filament of dog shit in the minds of Kellyanne Conway, Karl Rove, and the facts are not in question, because they cannot be apprehended for questioning at this very late date in the going, we can forego all verification and plunge ahead into the heinous unknown.
    Is my name Someone?

  266. https://digbysblog.net/2020/03/the-political-divide-in-the-age-of-coronavirus/
    At some point, someone will construct a unified paranoid conspiracy theory to account for what is happening to us that posits that Trump and his “loved” ones and loyalists have already been vaccinated against the virus …. there will be much more.
    It will most likely not be true, but since Truth, this Kerouakean, bacteria-level gone thing poked and prodded by the likes of Socrates, Aristotle, Kant, Hume, Walker Percy, John Cleese and Dr. Irwin Corey over the course of millenniums is merely a deconstructed excremental filament of dog shit in the minds of Kellyanne Conway, Karl Rove, and the facts are not in question, because they cannot be apprehended for questioning at this very late date in the going, we can forego all verification and plunge ahead into the heinous unknown.
    Is my name Someone?

  267. “filament of dog shit”
    Please rephrase to “quantum particle of in many places at once dog shit ..”

  268. “filament of dog shit”
    Please rephrase to “quantum particle of in many places at once dog shit ..”

  271. Can we talk?
    “Fortunately, another plan was hammered out this afternoon. The Darien Times reports that these drive-through screenings will be available Mondays at the local high school. You’ll still need a doctor’s orders to actually get tested. A happy ending, or at least a happy-ish ending. Only Mondays?”
    Rich Connecticut NIMBYs Don’t Want Your Filthy Coronavirus Tests Near Them: Their complaints shut down an important pandemic-fighting tool. Fortunately, a substitute plan has been found.

  272. Can we talk?
    “Fortunately, another plan was hammered out this afternoon. The Darien Times reports that these drive-through screenings will be available Mondays at the local high school. You’ll still need a doctor’s orders to actually get tested. A happy ending, or at least a happy-ish ending. Only Mondays?”
    Rich Connecticut NIMBYs Don’t Want Your Filthy Coronavirus Tests Near Them: Their complaints shut down an important pandemic-fighting tool. Fortunately, a substitute plan has been found.

  277. Tuesday, I woke up with a fever and a dry cough.
    Next Monday, I stand in line to get tested.
    Lucky I’m not in Wuhan Province, or South Korea, or Singapore, or I Left My Heart In SanFranGayTown.

  278. Tuesday, I woke up with a fever and a dry cough.
    Next Monday, I stand in line to get tested.
    Lucky I’m not in Wuhan Province, or South Korea, or Singapore, or I Left My Heart In SanFranGayTown.

  279. I live in Denver as you know.
    Now this:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/colorado-eagle-county-covid-19-coronavirus-hotspot-avon-vail-health
    My son, the post-doc chemist, told me this morning that he is driving back to Denver from Ann Arbor where University of Michigan is shuttered, with his cat, because he is wary that state borders will become impassable very soon.
    Can anyone tell me whether he is driving closer to oblivion or escaping it?
    I counseled him to stay away from truck stops, maybe find a parking lot or garage to sleep in his car on the one overnight, since he is passing thru Trump true believer, it’s all a liberal Chinese hoax country.
    If he gets sick, I become Comanche.
    Do you know what the Comanche did to the original settler conservatives in Texas?

  280. I live in Denver as you know.
    Now this:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/colorado-eagle-county-covid-19-coronavirus-hotspot-avon-vail-health
    My son, the post-doc chemist, told me this morning that he is driving back to Denver from Ann Arbor where University of Michigan is shuttered, with his cat, because he is wary that state borders will become impassable very soon.
    Can anyone tell me whether he is driving closer to oblivion or escaping it?
    I counseled him to stay away from truck stops, maybe find a parking lot or garage to sleep in his car on the one overnight, since he is passing thru Trump true believer, it’s all a liberal Chinese hoax country.
    If he gets sick, I become Comanche.
    Do you know what the Comanche did to the original settler conservatives in Texas?

  281. Clement Atlee overthrows British Government.
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-big-big-plan
    Tory Johnson government promises to fire everyone once the virus is eradicated and cut National Health Insurance down to one QAnon tip per pay period.
    Boris sez if McCartney goes under, well, we’ve still got Ringo, who loves him some Brexit.
    Then makes a flu joke.
    So, an Irish Priest, a Rabbi, and a Leprechaun walk into a bar.
    The barkeep coughs.

  282. Clement Atlee overthrows British Government.
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-big-big-plan
    Tory Johnson government promises to fire everyone once the virus is eradicated and cut National Health Insurance down to one QAnon tip per pay period.
    Boris sez if McCartney goes under, well, we’ve still got Ringo, who loves him some Brexit.
    Then makes a flu joke.
    So, an Irish Priest, a Rabbi, and a Leprechaun walk into a bar.
    The barkeep coughs.

  285. The Colorado mountain communities got a head start on the rest of the state. The first known case came in from Italy and spent a couple of days skiing and dining. There was a group of 13 Australians (about that many, any way) who came for skiing and all tested positive at a time that suggested they were infected before they got here.
    LA County admitted that containment was no longer feasible (too few test kits, too many contacts) and advised doctors/hospitals to send patients whose symptoms match the profile and aren’t too sick home with quarantine instructions rather than testing them. I figure Colorado is headed down that same path and eventually something over half of us will catch it. Unless there’s an unexpectedly good treatment drug or an effective vaccine sooner than people think.

  286. The Colorado mountain communities got a head start on the rest of the state. The first known case came in from Italy and spent a couple of days skiing and dining. There was a group of 13 Australians (about that many, any way) who came for skiing and all tested positive at a time that suggested they were infected before they got here.
    LA County admitted that containment was no longer feasible (too few test kits, too many contacts) and advised doctors/hospitals to send patients whose symptoms match the profile and aren’t too sick home with quarantine instructions rather than testing them. I figure Colorado is headed down that same path and eventually something over half of us will catch it. Unless there’s an unexpectedly good treatment drug or an effective vaccine sooner than people think.

  287. Viruses are much harder to treat, so unlike Dubya and his band of merry war criminals getting Cipro before the Anthrax mailings went out in 2001, Trump and his grifters are in the same boat as the rest of us.
    …that is, after they’ve finished drilling holes in the hull.

  288. Viruses are much harder to treat, so unlike Dubya and his band of merry war criminals getting Cipro before the Anthrax mailings went out in 2001, Trump and his grifters are in the same boat as the rest of us.
    …that is, after they’ve finished drilling holes in the hull.

  289. I watch Trump giving daily press briefings (and sounding totally lost). While completely ignoring anything like social distancing. Perhaps, deep down, he still believes the whole thing is a hoax.
    Then stories come out of those close to him (most recently someone on VP Pence’s staff) testing positive.
    If statistics mean anything, the whole White House is going to catch it. Including Trump. The question in my mind: when it happens, does he blame the White House press corps? Or does he somehow find a way to blame Obama and/or Biden?

  290. I watch Trump giving daily press briefings (and sounding totally lost). While completely ignoring anything like social distancing. Perhaps, deep down, he still believes the whole thing is a hoax.
    Then stories come out of those close to him (most recently someone on VP Pence’s staff) testing positive.
    If statistics mean anything, the whole White House is going to catch it. Including Trump. The question in my mind: when it happens, does he blame the White House press corps? Or does he somehow find a way to blame Obama and/or Biden?

  291. wj, John’s links suggest that Trump will blame a Chinese/Democratic conspiracy.
    He’s race baiting, but he’s also fomenting a horrible relationship with a nuclear power upon which we depend economically.
    He’s the most despicable thing that ever happened to this country. I wish the Democrats would hold louder dog and pony shows, because people are listening to him. Coronavirus and economic depression aside, we are in serious trouble.

  292. wj, John’s links suggest that Trump will blame a Chinese/Democratic conspiracy.
    He’s race baiting, but he’s also fomenting a horrible relationship with a nuclear power upon which we depend economically.
    He’s the most despicable thing that ever happened to this country. I wish the Democrats would hold louder dog and pony shows, because people are listening to him. Coronavirus and economic depression aside, we are in serious trouble.

  293. sapient, I know that’s who he’s blaming the US part of the pandemic on. But if it hits him personally, I think he might (counter)attack personal targets close to his heart.
    So far he’s managed to become the #1 most corrupt ever (displacing Harding) and the #1 most incompetent (displacing Buchanan). Now, covid-19 looks to be giving him the opportunity to becone the #1 biggest single disaster ever. So tired of winning….

  294. sapient, I know that’s who he’s blaming the US part of the pandemic on. But if it hits him personally, I think he might (counter)attack personal targets close to his heart.
    So far he’s managed to become the #1 most corrupt ever (displacing Harding) and the #1 most incompetent (displacing Buchanan). Now, covid-19 looks to be giving him the opportunity to becone the #1 biggest single disaster ever. So tired of winning….

  305. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/how-to-make-dubya-look-like-winston-churchill
    “All Donald Trump would have to do to guarantee his re-election would be to be a semi-normal, minimally functional human being over the next seven months.”
    Or he could cancel the elections, unless he can render an Academy Award-winning performance of whatever “normal” passes for in pigfucking America, but he’s already failed all of the auditions.
    At this point, his narrow acting range couldn’t get him a role in a dog food commercial, as the dog food.
    I think someone advised Hitler at some point as the Allied Forces closed in on the Third Reich late in 1944 that he “could” act “normal” and close down the camps and release the Jews and his other victims, but instead he double downed and pursued his ultimate malignant goals.
    Remember Trump said this: I know everything there is to know about nuclear weapons. It took me about 90 minutes to learn everything.”
    With Trump and the all-American conservative movement, it is only a failure of imagination to picture the full horror of what is coming.

  306. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/how-to-make-dubya-look-like-winston-churchill
    “All Donald Trump would have to do to guarantee his re-election would be to be a semi-normal, minimally functional human being over the next seven months.”
    Or he could cancel the elections, unless he can render an Academy Award-winning performance of whatever “normal” passes for in pigfucking America, but he’s already failed all of the auditions.
    At this point, his narrow acting range couldn’t get him a role in a dog food commercial, as the dog food.
    I think someone advised Hitler at some point as the Allied Forces closed in on the Third Reich late in 1944 that he “could” act “normal” and close down the camps and release the Jews and his other victims, but instead he double downed and pursued his ultimate malignant goals.
    Remember Trump said this: I know everything there is to know about nuclear weapons. It took me about 90 minutes to learn everything.”
    With Trump and the all-American conservative movement, it is only a failure of imagination to picture the full horror of what is coming.

  307. Oh God, this is in today’s Washington Post:

    An alarming new poll from NPR, PBS NewsHour and Marist shows that the number of Republicans who believe the virus is a real threat has actually fallen over the past month, from 72 percent in February to just 40 percent now. A majority of Republicans now say the threat has been blown out of proportion — more than double the 23 percent who said so last month.

  308. Oh God, this is in today’s Washington Post:

    An alarming new poll from NPR, PBS NewsHour and Marist shows that the number of Republicans who believe the virus is a real threat has actually fallen over the past month, from 72 percent in February to just 40 percent now. A majority of Republicans now say the threat has been blown out of proportion — more than double the 23 percent who said so last month.

  309. And this, in another WaPo article by someone called Stuart Stevens. I don’t really know who he is (apart from the article header) but he certainly calls it right:

    Don’t just blame President Trump. Blame me — and all the other Republicans who aided and abetted and, yes, benefited from protecting a political party that has become dangerous to America. Some of us knew better.
    But we built this moment. And then we looked the other way.
    Many of us heard a warning sound we chose to ignore, like that rattle in your car you hear but figure will go away. Now we’re broken down, with plenty of time to think about what should have been done.
    The failures of the government’s response to the coronavirus crisis can be traced directly to some of the toxic fantasies now dear to the Republican Party. Here are a few: Government is bad. Establishment experts are overrated or just plain wrong. Science is suspect. And we can go it alone, the world be damned.

  310. And this, in another WaPo article by someone called Stuart Stevens. I don’t really know who he is (apart from the article header) but he certainly calls it right:

    Don’t just blame President Trump. Blame me — and all the other Republicans who aided and abetted and, yes, benefited from protecting a political party that has become dangerous to America. Some of us knew better.
    But we built this moment. And then we looked the other way.
    Many of us heard a warning sound we chose to ignore, like that rattle in your car you hear but figure will go away. Now we’re broken down, with plenty of time to think about what should have been done.
    The failures of the government’s response to the coronavirus crisis can be traced directly to some of the toxic fantasies now dear to the Republican Party. Here are a few: Government is bad. Establishment experts are overrated or just plain wrong. Science is suspect. And we can go it alone, the world be damned.

  311. the GOP is a cult.
    my father’s Dr was telling him how C19 is a Chinese weapon, sent here in retaliation “for the terrorists”.

  312. the GOP is a cult.
    my father’s Dr was telling him how C19 is a Chinese weapon, sent here in retaliation “for the terrorists”.

  315. There’s this poll too, which would seem to contradict GftNC’s link, but we know nothing except to stay away, guard against, and run from those who have purposefully and with malice destroyed our governance, out health, and now our country.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/487956-poll-37-of-americans-trust-trump-on-coronavirus
    We have a rabid, slavering, diseased wolf, with all due respect to wolves, in the position normally by occupied by the mere above average fragile human being with good intentions.
    Our only choice is to, from a distance, baby talk him, nice doggy, good doggy, smart doggy, greatest doggy President in the history of not only Presidents, but canines, in the desperate hope that he doesn’t bite us because we might have chastised him some time recently.
    We are in grave fucking mortal danger.
    This country will never fucking be the same.
    9/11 was nothing.
    This virus is bad enough without the endemic right wing American sewage slithering up through our drains.
    We need a military coup.
    NOW!

  316. There’s this poll too, which would seem to contradict GftNC’s link, but we know nothing except to stay away, guard against, and run from those who have purposefully and with malice destroyed our governance, out health, and now our country.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/487956-poll-37-of-americans-trust-trump-on-coronavirus
    We have a rabid, slavering, diseased wolf, with all due respect to wolves, in the position normally by occupied by the mere above average fragile human being with good intentions.
    Our only choice is to, from a distance, baby talk him, nice doggy, good doggy, smart doggy, greatest doggy President in the history of not only Presidents, but canines, in the desperate hope that he doesn’t bite us because we might have chastised him some time recently.
    We are in grave fucking mortal danger.
    This country will never fucking be the same.
    9/11 was nothing.
    This virus is bad enough without the endemic right wing American sewage slithering up through our drains.
    We need a military coup.
    NOW!

  317. For the dog lovers who might have been triggered, substitute velociraptor and/or The Alien for what we are dealing with, for whatever value of dealing any of us IMAGINES we might have.

  318. For the dog lovers who might have been triggered, substitute velociraptor and/or The Alien for what we are dealing with, for whatever value of dealing any of us IMAGINES we might have.

  329. See, there’s an advantage to not artificially under-counting the number of infected: the fatality rate isn’t as high. Or course, our innumerate leaders (and China’s) can’t grasp that.

  330. See, there’s an advantage to not artificially under-counting the number of infected: the fatality rate isn’t as high. Or course, our innumerate leaders (and China’s) can’t grasp that.

  331. Do it:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/mint-that-coin
    Didn’t the conservative nutcases want to assassinate Tlaib about five minutes ago for having two consonants in a row in her surname?
    THIS will really get them going, that she’s not just ten times as smart as they were five minutes ago, but is now a hundred times smarter and picking up speed.
    Their stupidity moves exponentially in the same direction as the infection rate of COVID-19.
    Someone create an algorithm.

  332. Do it:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/mint-that-coin
    Didn’t the conservative nutcases want to assassinate Tlaib about five minutes ago for having two consonants in a row in her surname?
    THIS will really get them going, that she’s not just ten times as smart as they were five minutes ago, but is now a hundred times smarter and picking up speed.
    Their stupidity moves exponentially in the same direction as the infection rate of COVID-19.
    Someone create an algorithm.

  333. Our leaders are fastidiously numerate.
    They know the precise numbers they don’t want to admit, which are the same as the ones they don’t want us to see or read about.
    I’m numerate. I’m so numerate I make Trump’s uncle seem like a six fingered three card grifter plus a brain.
    But I know the number of the years under my belt is becoming so large and deep into two digits that it’s like Barry Bonds’ home run asterisk.
    It can’t possible be true.

  334. Our leaders are fastidiously numerate.
    They know the precise numbers they don’t want to admit, which are the same as the ones they don’t want us to see or read about.
    I’m numerate. I’m so numerate I make Trump’s uncle seem like a six fingered three card grifter plus a brain.
    But I know the number of the years under my belt is becoming so large and deep into two digits that it’s like Barry Bonds’ home run asterisk.
    It can’t possible be true.

  335. Didn’t the conservative nutcases want to assassinate Tlaib about five minutes ago for having two consonants in a row in her surname?
    Would it be rude to note thatTrump has two consonants in a row in his surname?

  336. Didn’t the conservative nutcases want to assassinate Tlaib about five minutes ago for having two consonants in a row in her surname?
    Would it be rude to note thatTrump has two consonants in a row in his surname?

  353. We have been bipartisanly set adrift, on the one side murderous malignity and the other equally deadly fecklessness:
    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-joe-biden-coronavirus-response-182951133.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_04
    Yes, some Governors are stepping up.
    But they have only the Founders’ imaginary wet dream legal niceties of borders around their states, which check and balance not a fucking thing.
    My state, whose Governor is a gay man and has lived with a scourge while being demonized by the very same malignant conservative movement feeding on us today, and thus at least shares some empathy with what his constituents are living through, “shares” a bit of a border with Oklahoma in which their fucking non-governing Governor doesn’t even vaccinate his own benighted children and who is probably having most of the toilet paper in his state delivered to his barn.
    We are only in this together like the Titanic was in it together with an iceberg.

  354. We have been bipartisanly set adrift, on the one side murderous malignity and the other equally deadly fecklessness:
    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nancy-pelosi-joe-biden-coronavirus-response-182951133.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_04
    Yes, some Governors are stepping up.
    But they have only the Founders’ imaginary wet dream legal niceties of borders around their states, which check and balance not a fucking thing.
    My state, whose Governor is a gay man and has lived with a scourge while being demonized by the very same malignant conservative movement feeding on us today, and thus at least shares some empathy with what his constituents are living through, “shares” a bit of a border with Oklahoma in which their fucking non-governing Governor doesn’t even vaccinate his own benighted children and who is probably having most of the toilet paper in his state delivered to his barn.
    We are only in this together like the Titanic was in it together with an iceberg.

  355. One side believes the virus is a hoax, only real in so far as it foments war with China and their other enemies.
    The other knows it’s a deadly scourge, pretty much.
    Which side will take the risk of showing up in person at polling places in November?
    IF there are elections.

  356. One side believes the virus is a hoax, only real in so far as it foments war with China and their other enemies.
    The other knows it’s a deadly scourge, pretty much.
    Which side will take the risk of showing up in person at polling places in November?
    IF there are elections.

  363. True Americans are listening to this:
    https://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-1
    or, you could listen to Trump’s press secretary, who has not held a fucking press conference in her useless damaging malignant republican anti-life, on FOX News simultaneously justifying trump attacking the press, including threatening individual journalists and threatening to take away our first Amendment rights, and decide to be the enemy of the country and the human race.
    I won’t link to that, anymore than I would link to Charles Manson’s parole hearings, by comparison, a fairly trivial mass murderer.
    There is a reckoning coming.
    The fury of it be unlike we’ve ever seen.

  364. True Americans are listening to this:
    https://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-1
    or, you could listen to Trump’s press secretary, who has not held a fucking press conference in her useless damaging malignant republican anti-life, on FOX News simultaneously justifying trump attacking the press, including threatening individual journalists and threatening to take away our first Amendment rights, and decide to be the enemy of the country and the human race.
    I won’t link to that, anymore than I would link to Charles Manson’s parole hearings, by comparison, a fairly trivial mass murderer.
    There is a reckoning coming.
    The fury of it be unlike we’ve ever seen.

  371. Germany’s Merkel in quarantine after receiving vaccine from physician who tested positive for the virus.
    The fascist right wing in Germany, like ours, is hearting their best to her.
    Says she faking.

  372. Germany’s Merkel in quarantine after receiving vaccine from physician who tested positive for the virus.
    The fascist right wing in Germany, like ours, is hearting their best to her.
    Says she faking.

  373. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/president-trump-impressed-by-kim-jong-uns-handling-of-coronavirus-pandemic-north-korea-state-media-reports-2020-03-22?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    NK has zero infections. Lot of folks with lead poisoning, of course, before symptoms appeared.
    Another Trump hero and role model, and fan is considering declaring martial law:
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/duterte-quarantine-philippines-coronavirus-lockdown-launches-manila-into-pandemonium/
    He told Filipinos to go the nearest military base for food and medical help.
    I lived in the Philippines. That’s going to be like asking the greased palms of Richard Burr for some of your baksheesh back.

  374. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/president-trump-impressed-by-kim-jong-uns-handling-of-coronavirus-pandemic-north-korea-state-media-reports-2020-03-22?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
    NK has zero infections. Lot of folks with lead poisoning, of course, before symptoms appeared.
    Another Trump hero and role model, and fan is considering declaring martial law:
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/duterte-quarantine-philippines-coronavirus-lockdown-launches-manila-into-pandemonium/
    He told Filipinos to go the nearest military base for food and medical help.
    I lived in the Philippines. That’s going to be like asking the greased palms of Richard Burr for some of your baksheesh back.

  377. Rand Paul’s spokesman:
    “He was not aware of any direct contact with any infected person.”
    Ah, but:
    “During the Senate GOP lunch today, Moran told colleagues that Rand was at the gym this morning, per two sources briefed on the lunch, and that he was swimming in the pool. Rand got his COVID-19 results back this morning.”
    Yeah, but, wait .. what?
    “The worst part is that Rand *KNEW* he’d been directly exposed weeks ago at a Speed Museum event where multiple prominent people tested positive. It’s been all over KY media for weeks. He refused to self-quarantine.”
    Kudos to LGM for those.
    He’s a murderer, like all of em.
    I’ve been in Kentucky several times.
    It doesn’t look like a shit hole, but man, the vermin they refuse to spray there.

  378. Rand Paul’s spokesman:
    “He was not aware of any direct contact with any infected person.”
    Ah, but:
    “During the Senate GOP lunch today, Moran told colleagues that Rand was at the gym this morning, per two sources briefed on the lunch, and that he was swimming in the pool. Rand got his COVID-19 results back this morning.”
    Yeah, but, wait .. what?
    “The worst part is that Rand *KNEW* he’d been directly exposed weeks ago at a Speed Museum event where multiple prominent people tested positive. It’s been all over KY media for weeks. He refused to self-quarantine.”
    Kudos to LGM for those.
    He’s a murderer, like all of em.
    I’ve been in Kentucky several times.
    It doesn’t look like a shit hole, but man, the vermin they refuse to spray there.

  379. Have a safe evening. You see a conservative coming your way, run across the street while the traffic is light.
    If you can’t help but face them, spit in their faces.

  380. Have a safe evening. You see a conservative coming your way, run across the street while the traffic is light.
    If you can’t help but face them, spit in their faces.

  381. https://time.com/5807710/china-sends-medical-supplies-coronavirus/
    I’m not politically correct.
    The proud racist Republican Party is the most dangerous, and now murderous, organization on the face of the Earth.
    But I repeat myself.
    They won’t accept life-saving supplies to save American lives from the chinks, the slant-eyes, the commie pinkos, the Maoists, the yellow peril, who they also mistake for all Asians on the street, given the number of Thai restaurants that will never open again for fear that they might be sneaking COVID-19 into the Tom Yum Goong.
    https://www.wired.com/story/jack-ma-supply-us-covid-19-tests-masks/
    I’ll betcha Rand Paul has access to Chinese medical supplies.
    The diseased republican, libertarian ghoul’s garage is full to the ceiling with toilet paper, some probably shoplifted a couple of months ago after he was briefed on Covid-19 and started selling his stocks and stocking up while he’s been breathing in his patsy constituents’ faces all this time in order to relieve them of their spare change.
    Has Trump produced even one test in his uncle’s laboratory in the basement of Mar-a-Lago where all science goes to die?
    He has this grifting grasping witch down in there stirring a noxious brew in a cauldron, snapping her Joe Biden voodoo doll in pieces and tossing them while speaking in a tongue that has only tasted trump’s taint.
    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/02/paula-white-how-do-you-get-from-the-trailer-park-to-a-white-house-job-give-money-to-trumps-spiritual-adviser/
    She’s one of the few anti-Americans whose “portfolio” has doubled these past few weeks.
    We need to “adjust” capital gains and marginal personal income tax rates for the (dis)likes of her.
    Can we go above 100%?

  382. https://time.com/5807710/china-sends-medical-supplies-coronavirus/
    I’m not politically correct.
    The proud racist Republican Party is the most dangerous, and now murderous, organization on the face of the Earth.
    But I repeat myself.
    They won’t accept life-saving supplies to save American lives from the chinks, the slant-eyes, the commie pinkos, the Maoists, the yellow peril, who they also mistake for all Asians on the street, given the number of Thai restaurants that will never open again for fear that they might be sneaking COVID-19 into the Tom Yum Goong.
    https://www.wired.com/story/jack-ma-supply-us-covid-19-tests-masks/
    I’ll betcha Rand Paul has access to Chinese medical supplies.
    The diseased republican, libertarian ghoul’s garage is full to the ceiling with toilet paper, some probably shoplifted a couple of months ago after he was briefed on Covid-19 and started selling his stocks and stocking up while he’s been breathing in his patsy constituents’ faces all this time in order to relieve them of their spare change.
    Has Trump produced even one test in his uncle’s laboratory in the basement of Mar-a-Lago where all science goes to die?
    He has this grifting grasping witch down in there stirring a noxious brew in a cauldron, snapping her Joe Biden voodoo doll in pieces and tossing them while speaking in a tongue that has only tasted trump’s taint.
    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/02/paula-white-how-do-you-get-from-the-trailer-park-to-a-white-house-job-give-money-to-trumps-spiritual-adviser/
    She’s one of the few anti-Americans whose “portfolio” has doubled these past few weeks.
    We need to “adjust” capital gains and marginal personal income tax rates for the (dis)likes of her.
    Can we go above 100%?

  383. Pure EVIL mainlined into the arteries, the very aortas, of the republican trump dupes and filth throughout the land, 24 hours a day, seven days a week:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/fox-news-and-the-wages-of-epistemic-closure
    I see that PG&E in California has pleaded guilty to felony involuntary manslaughter for starting the murderous fires that consumed human beings in Paradise (natch, even agnostics like me appreciate a few of God’s jokes), California, stemming from the all-American policy that corporations are people, but people are expendable.
    America and the world will file a class action suit against every Republican in the country and the Republican Party and Donald Trump which will seek first degree murder charges against them.
    The monetary damages sought will total EVERYTHING they’ve got, including their stashes abroad, which by the way some of them are joining via private jet as we speak, the cargo holds full of toilet paper, medical masks, and their personal chefs bound and gagged.
    The monetary damages will seek the total restitution of the entire debt of the government United States of America, as well as wiping the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet of the moolah that institution has doled out to the filth over the past 20 years and of course the coming months.
    When republicans are down to their last shekel, we’ll start in on their viscera.
    Surely their pounds of flesh can be rendered and sold for a few cents, or maybe a food stamp or three to pay off the fucking deficit.
    It’s early on a Monday.
    The sky is a pandemic shade of blue over Denver.
    That’s it for me.

  384. Pure EVIL mainlined into the arteries, the very aortas, of the republican trump dupes and filth throughout the land, 24 hours a day, seven days a week:
    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/fox-news-and-the-wages-of-epistemic-closure
    I see that PG&E in California has pleaded guilty to felony involuntary manslaughter for starting the murderous fires that consumed human beings in Paradise (natch, even agnostics like me appreciate a few of God’s jokes), California, stemming from the all-American policy that corporations are people, but people are expendable.
    America and the world will file a class action suit against every Republican in the country and the Republican Party and Donald Trump which will seek first degree murder charges against them.
    The monetary damages sought will total EVERYTHING they’ve got, including their stashes abroad, which by the way some of them are joining via private jet as we speak, the cargo holds full of toilet paper, medical masks, and their personal chefs bound and gagged.
    The monetary damages will seek the total restitution of the entire debt of the government United States of America, as well as wiping the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet of the moolah that institution has doled out to the filth over the past 20 years and of course the coming months.
    When republicans are down to their last shekel, we’ll start in on their viscera.
    Surely their pounds of flesh can be rendered and sold for a few cents, or maybe a food stamp or three to pay off the fucking deficit.
    It’s early on a Monday.
    The sky is a pandemic shade of blue over Denver.
    That’s it for me.

  385. The 30-second news cycle:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/neo-nazi-groups-tell-virus-infected-members-to-spray-bodily-fluids-at-cops-and-jews-says-report?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition
    Barr and his gauleiters are fashioning a regime of detaining and jailing Americans without charges, bond, or trials in the coming months and possibly years.
    When you hear that liberals, such as Hillary Clinton, have been whisked away by the jackbooted thugs BEFORE the Trump good people from only that side described in the above article are taken off the streets you will KNOW where WE stand.
    Meanwhile, the Soviet, Nazi-like purge of the US Government begins:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/488129-opm-chief-abruptly-resigns-report
    The new 29-year old lawbreaker and national security threat who is now Director of OPM resume highlight is that he is a trick shooter in Basketball.
    I earned and receive a modest CIVIL Service pension.
    I fully expect it to be stolen from me because I am the enemy of conservatives … I was a what they lie a deep stater, and they read everything I write here.

  386. The 30-second news cycle:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/neo-nazi-groups-tell-virus-infected-members-to-spray-bodily-fluids-at-cops-and-jews-says-report?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition
    Barr and his gauleiters are fashioning a regime of detaining and jailing Americans without charges, bond, or trials in the coming months and possibly years.
    When you hear that liberals, such as Hillary Clinton, have been whisked away by the jackbooted thugs BEFORE the Trump good people from only that side described in the above article are taken off the streets you will KNOW where WE stand.
    Meanwhile, the Soviet, Nazi-like purge of the US Government begins:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/488129-opm-chief-abruptly-resigns-report
    The new 29-year old lawbreaker and national security threat who is now Director of OPM resume highlight is that he is a trick shooter in Basketball.
    I earned and receive a modest CIVIL Service pension.
    I fully expect it to be stolen from me because I am the enemy of conservatives … I was a what they lie a deep stater, and they read everything I write here.

  389. That moment the other day when Fauci actually touched his face with a palm plant was when Trump referred to the State Department as the DEEP State Department in a news conference:
    We are fucking dead.

  390. That moment the other day when Fauci actually touched his face with a palm plant was when Trump referred to the State Department as the DEEP State Department in a news conference:
    We are fucking dead.

  391. Dreher, the Jim Cramer of schizoid new age fake thieving bullshit Christianity yesterday:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-apocalypse-christianity-benedict-option/
    They’re gonna round up all the Christians!!!
    Dreher today:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-reason-to-hope/
    I would comment in those threads, but gunfire is being moderated out, unless it’s from conservatives.
    Does this mean we don’t get to round up and punish the poisonous Prosperity Gospel grifters?
    Already the fun is over?
    See, conservatives know how to attack and murder Christians. They teach their children well.
    They find a black church, open fire, and burn it to the ground.

  392. Dreher, the Jim Cramer of schizoid new age fake thieving bullshit Christianity yesterday:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-apocalypse-christianity-benedict-option/
    They’re gonna round up all the Christians!!!
    Dreher today:
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/coronavirus-reason-to-hope/
    I would comment in those threads, but gunfire is being moderated out, unless it’s from conservatives.
    Does this mean we don’t get to round up and punish the poisonous Prosperity Gospel grifters?
    Already the fun is over?
    See, conservatives know how to attack and murder Christians. They teach their children well.
    They find a black church, open fire, and burn it to the ground.

  401. Hey, give Rubio this much credit. Unlike Paul, when he heard he might have been exposed, he isolated himself. Without waiting to get tested. After it was clear he hadn’t caught it, he returned . . . and when he got exposed again he went into isolation again.
    I’m not a fan of his by any means. But compared to a number of Senators and governors from his party, he is a model of good citizenship on this.

  402. Hey, give Rubio this much credit. Unlike Paul, when he heard he might have been exposed, he isolated himself. Without waiting to get tested. After it was clear he hadn’t caught it, he returned . . . and when he got exposed again he went into isolation again.
    I’m not a fan of his by any means. But compared to a number of Senators and governors from his party, he is a model of good citizenship on this.

  403. I separate my stock market investing from my politics, as did every lying, conniving conservative during the Obama years when they made shit loads of money in the market while telling us the nigger socialist was driving capitalism into the grave.
    Here’s my take on today’s trading alone, and if you take this in any way as advice regarding what to do in the market I also have one ampule of a vaccine against the COVID-19 in my possession I’ll sell you for a billion dollars.
    But here goes:
    On February 18, the day before I left for New Orleans and the day before the markets started cratering, the TVIX, a leveraged instrument that tracks, but exponentially, the Volatility Index VIX, the latter of which you can’t trade directly, traded at $39 per share.
    I thought about buying a couple hundred shares, given my track record of signaling a market decline every time I leave town, but I didn’t, being fully catnipped by bullshit.
    Late last week, the TVIX spiked to an intraday print of exactly $1000/per share, after twice giving false intraday sell signals within a two week period, by my intrepretation.
    There hasn’t been action in the VIX like this since 2009.
    On Friday, although the VIX has fallen, but not as precipitously, signaling possible reduced downside volatility, the TVIX closed in the $600 dollar, and today thus far, it is trading in the low to mid $400 range, setting up a blow-off top chart formation as of last week and MAYBE signalling a temporary bottom and possible rally or at least sideways action in the overall stock market, but WITHIN a bear market until further notice.
    There’s an easy way to trade the downside in the VIX as well, but figure it our for yourself because you didn’t hear about it here.
    Just saying, maybe, some financial pain might be lessened here soon.
    Remember this however, the German stock market went practically straight up after Hitler consolidated his power in 1932.
    You can make money when millions and millions are being murdered by stock market friendly motherfucking filth and murderers.

  404. I separate my stock market investing from my politics, as did every lying, conniving conservative during the Obama years when they made shit loads of money in the market while telling us the nigger socialist was driving capitalism into the grave.
    Here’s my take on today’s trading alone, and if you take this in any way as advice regarding what to do in the market I also have one ampule of a vaccine against the COVID-19 in my possession I’ll sell you for a billion dollars.
    But here goes:
    On February 18, the day before I left for New Orleans and the day before the markets started cratering, the TVIX, a leveraged instrument that tracks, but exponentially, the Volatility Index VIX, the latter of which you can’t trade directly, traded at $39 per share.
    I thought about buying a couple hundred shares, given my track record of signaling a market decline every time I leave town, but I didn’t, being fully catnipped by bullshit.
    Late last week, the TVIX spiked to an intraday print of exactly $1000/per share, after twice giving false intraday sell signals within a two week period, by my intrepretation.
    There hasn’t been action in the VIX like this since 2009.
    On Friday, although the VIX has fallen, but not as precipitously, signaling possible reduced downside volatility, the TVIX closed in the $600 dollar, and today thus far, it is trading in the low to mid $400 range, setting up a blow-off top chart formation as of last week and MAYBE signalling a temporary bottom and possible rally or at least sideways action in the overall stock market, but WITHIN a bear market until further notice.
    There’s an easy way to trade the downside in the VIX as well, but figure it our for yourself because you didn’t hear about it here.
    Just saying, maybe, some financial pain might be lessened here soon.
    Remember this however, the German stock market went practically straight up after Hitler consolidated his power in 1932.
    You can make money when millions and millions are being murdered by stock market friendly motherfucking filth and murderers.

  405. I’m nothing like an expert. But my impression is that the VIX reflects how much the market bounces around. It’s low when the market is going steadily up. BUT it’s also low if the market is going steadily down. So expectations could be either way. Me, I’d be inclined to the “still got a ways, and some weeks, to fall” outlook.

  406. I’m nothing like an expert. But my impression is that the VIX reflects how much the market bounces around. It’s low when the market is going steadily up. BUT it’s also low if the market is going steadily down. So expectations could be either way. Me, I’d be inclined to the “still got a ways, and some weeks, to fall” outlook.

  407. You are probably right on that last inclination, wj.
    One correction I would make is that the VIX rises when the market falls precipitously but the VIX falls and stays low when the market rises.
    The only volatility it approves of, or yawns at, is the upside.
    But like the National Enquirer, it loves it some rancid news.
    If it was a journalist, we could say it’s reporting is extremely biased.
    “I’m nothing like an expert.”
    Why would you want to be? They are the elite.
    The know-nothings have inherited the world.

  408. You are probably right on that last inclination, wj.
    One correction I would make is that the VIX rises when the market falls precipitously but the VIX falls and stays low when the market rises.
    The only volatility it approves of, or yawns at, is the upside.
    But like the National Enquirer, it loves it some rancid news.
    If it was a journalist, we could say it’s reporting is extremely biased.
    “I’m nothing like an expert.”
    Why would you want to be? They are the elite.
    The know-nothings have inherited the world.

  409. Me, I’d be inclined to the “still got a ways, and some weeks, to fall” outlook.
    Same here. Unlikely that 10-20 million new unemployed are fully baked in yet. Probably another month before there are official numbers for how badly state tax revenues are going to crater, and how far their spending will have to be cut (recall that with one exception, states can’t borrow to pay regular operating expenses).
    I’m looking forward eagerly to the Fed extending their purchase offer to everyone — I’ll be happy to sell them a couple million dollars in worthless “Mike bonds.”

  410. Me, I’d be inclined to the “still got a ways, and some weeks, to fall” outlook.
    Same here. Unlikely that 10-20 million new unemployed are fully baked in yet. Probably another month before there are official numbers for how badly state tax revenues are going to crater, and how far their spending will have to be cut (recall that with one exception, states can’t borrow to pay regular operating expenses).
    I’m looking forward eagerly to the Fed extending their purchase offer to everyone — I’ll be happy to sell them a couple million dollars in worthless “Mike bonds.”

  411. This is gonna get me on two lists, theirs, and the FBIs enemies list, but I’m sending away to these guys for info:
    https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/
    Unlike the NRA, they accept members who don’t want to be part of their club, since I’m not a socialist and I hate guns, though like Freeman Dyson in World War II, I’m beginning to realize the necessity of foregoing my ethics and becoming a ruthless motherfucker.
    The NRA won’t accept non-assholes, which I find offputting, at best.

  412. This is gonna get me on two lists, theirs, and the FBIs enemies list, but I’m sending away to these guys for info:
    https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/
    Unlike the NRA, they accept members who don’t want to be part of their club, since I’m not a socialist and I hate guns, though like Freeman Dyson in World War II, I’m beginning to realize the necessity of foregoing my ethics and becoming a ruthless motherfucker.
    The NRA won’t accept non-assholes, which I find offputting, at best.

  419. Trying to stay sane, but when I look at the polls on FiveThirtyEight, and when I saw this tweet from a writer called Sathnam Sanghera, despite my engagement with sane Americans here I couldn’t disagree:
    According to @thetimes: “Mr Trump’s ratings have jumped in recent days… more than half – 55% – of Americans now approve of his handling of the crisis, up from 43%”. Time to give up trying to understand the USA.

  420. Trying to stay sane, but when I look at the polls on FiveThirtyEight, and when I saw this tweet from a writer called Sathnam Sanghera, despite my engagement with sane Americans here I couldn’t disagree:
    According to @thetimes: “Mr Trump’s ratings have jumped in recent days… more than half – 55% – of Americans now approve of his handling of the crisis, up from 43%”. Time to give up trying to understand the USA.

  423. Trying to stay away from this stuff, since it does no good to sit around and rage about it. But I lay the responsibility for those stats heavily on the shoulders of the press. They have done almost nothing but normalize his vicious lunacy, or treat it as at worst some kind of weird entertainment.

  424. Trying to stay away from this stuff, since it does no good to sit around and rage about it. But I lay the responsibility for those stats heavily on the shoulders of the press. They have done almost nothing but normalize his vicious lunacy, or treat it as at worst some kind of weird entertainment.

  425. I was responding to GftNC, not John Thullen.
    My signal to get back out of this thread, if I hadn’t been going to already.

  426. I was responding to GftNC, not John Thullen.
    My signal to get back out of this thread, if I hadn’t been going to already.

  429. I request, please, that the OBWI moderators close this thread to further comments.
    Thank you.

  430. I request, please, that the OBWI moderators close this thread to further comments.
    Thank you.

  431. Done. because of the time difference, I usually get here too late and with social distancing/lockdown, I’m going to be earlier and waking up to this. So, John, take a breath? Thanks

  432. Done. because of the time difference, I usually get here too late and with social distancing/lockdown, I’m going to be earlier and waking up to this. So, John, take a breath? Thanks

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