Jehnna: I suppose nothing hurts you.
Conan: Only pain.An open thread
-Also-
A bleg.
by von
This is your weekend open thread: I'm off to do battle in the nerf apocalypse with my 3 year old kid and his cousins:
Below the fold, a workout bleg.
"This was the voice of moderation until 13 Sept, 2025"
by publius I'm not sure Max Baucus and staff read Jonathan Cohn, but they should. This comes from his latest report on where things stand on Capitol Hill: Baucus, as you may know, has been trying to hammer out a deal with a bipartisan group of six members. But on Thursday the most conservative member … Read more
Jehnna: I suppose nothing hurts you.
Conan: Only pain.An open thread
-Also-
A bleg.
by von
This is your weekend open thread: I'm off to do battle in the nerf apocalypse with my 3 year old kid and his cousins:
Below the fold, a workout bleg.
by publius I missed the latest round of the “should we sell our kidneys” debate. To recap, various libertarian conservatives say yes, arguing that the donors’ health risks are small and that people really need kidneys. The real challenge then, as John Schwenkler notes, is to justify the ban on kidney selling. So I’ll try. … Read more
by publius Like Steve Benen, I was shocked to learn that Karl Rove played a greater role than previously known in the U.S. Attorney firings. Of all the various DOJ disgraces of the Bush years, this one is actually the most inexcusable. Don't get me wrong — the legal approval of torture and wiretapping was … Read more
by Eric Martin A senior U.S. military official and adviser to the Iraqi military’s Baghdad command, Col. Timothy R. Reese, wrote a rather blunt memo that has recently found the light of day (copy here). In the memo, Reese argues that the U.S. should accelerate its withdrawal from Iraq based on the following factors: we have … Read more
by publius Scott Lemieux and Ezra Klein recently had a back and forth on whether a health coverage reform bill without a public option was worth supporting. I agree with Klein on the merits, but it's a trickier question politically when you start viewing it through a game theory lens. On the policy merits alone, … Read more
by publius Under the "breakthrough" in the House, there will be no vote on health care before the August recess. Politico adds: Republicans, meanwhile, are ready to use the August recess to rip the bill apart and attack Democrats in their home districts. Democrats need to explain the bill. No argument there. But they shouldn't … Read more
by Eric Martin Ben Smith is impressed with the Obama administration's relatively low-key approach to counterterrorism: One of the most striking differences between the Obama and Bush administration is the handling of domestic terror arrests. The Bush White House trumpeted every arrest and disrupted plot — in some cases, ones that were nowhere close to … Read more
by von Among the articles of faith circulating in the liberal blogosphere is that killing the House Democrats' health care package (HR 3200) amounts to killing health care reform.* The argument goes that HR 3200 is the only way to get traction in the debate and must be supported, warts and all, because there's nothing else out there. Pass HR 3200, … Read more
by Eric Martin A little over a month ago, Andrew Sullivan had a fascinating piece on the evolution of the New York Times' willingness, or lack thereof, to use the term "torture" to describe, well, torture (for definite lack of a better word). As Sullivan demonstrates, prior to the Bush administration, the Times repeatedly and reflexively referred to interrogation … Read more
by publius Inside Max Baucus’s Senate conference room. The bipartisan panel of six Senators is negotiating a bipartisan deal on health coverage reform. The Democratic Senators are Baucus, Conrad, and Bingaman. The Republican Senators are Grassley, Snowe, and Enzi. BAUCUS: Thanks everyone for being here. I know everyone understands the historical stakes, and everyone wants … Read more
by Eric Martin This highly recommended, if heart-rending, story from the Colorado Springs Gazettetells of a group of soldiers that returned from Iraq only to fall prey to severe mental illnesses that were largely self-medicated through, and as a result exacerbated by, drug abuse. The soldiers in the applicable unit have committed serial acts of violence, including murder, since their return. Although painful to read, the … Read more
by von Confirmation bias probably plays a role here, but: now that we have the actual transcript, it seems clearer than ever that Officer Sergeant Crowley was out of line in arresting Professor Gates. As Andrew Sullivan notes, you can't reconcile Crowley's report with either the tape or the witnesses. Crowley seems to have arrested Gates for being annoying rather … Read more
by von There are three essential components to health care reform — or else it's not worth doing. Coverage. Obviously, the reform has to cover folks who are currently uninsured. Personal. Everyone should have access to good health care; good health care shouldn't depend on a person having a job. Health care is a personal good. Aside … Read more
by publius I've never read No Exit. My understanding of the general plot is that three people get stuck in a room in hell with some rather annoying Chatty Cathys. They think they'll be tortured, but actually the punishment is confining them together in a room from which they can't escape each other's company. "Hell … Read more
by publius In my ongoing obsession with the Blue Dogs, I've been wondering — why exactly should we expect the 52-member Blue Dog coalition to vote as a bloc? How exactly can the coalition's leadership maintain discipline once Pelosi starts twisting arms? In thinking about all this, I decided to run some numbers on the … Read more
by von I am a bit surprised by the lesson offered in Publius' post, The Fool's Errand of Political Cover. Contrary to Publius, the lesson from the debates over the Democratic stimulus package is not that it's pointless to try to cooperate with the other side (i.e., folks like me). Rather, the lesson may well be that y'all need … Read more
by publius The current GOP line of attack is that the stimulus is a “failure.” Even if you think the stimulus is bad policy, this argument is ridiculous. Maybe the stimulus will ultimately fail, but it’s too early to say anything either way (though it has helped states). In short, the "failure" argument is aimed … Read more
by publius As I’ve noted, the Blue Dogs currently benefit from the Democratic Party’s institutional commitment to health care — both nationally and locally. Nationally, this commitment has helped elevate the Dems into the majority, which benefits every member of the caucus. Health care is a key part of the national brand, and it has … Read more
by publius The schedule for Austin City Limits (a ginormous music festival in early October) is out. You can see the schedule here. So here's my bleg — I need help plotting my listening strategy (which takes months of intense preparation). There are always several bands playing at once — and I've never heard of … Read more
by von I disagree with President Obama on a whole host of issues. And I'm now twice on the record that Sergeant Jim Crowley did, indeed, act stupidly in arresting Professor Gates. Still, President Obama's comments today regarding Gatesgate were not only politically brilliant, but also the right thing to do. UPDATE: A commentator asks a good question, which is how … Read more
by publius Here's the basic dilemma on health coverage reform: We've got an imperfect bill, but we've also got a brief fleeting window of opportunity. Given this set of choices, I'd much rather have imperfect reform to nothing. No one is 100% happy with the bills we're seeing. Personally, if I could wave a magic … Read more
by publius The Blue Dogs have been confusing me lately. Their various positions don't exactly seem logically consistent. They oppose the costs of the health care bill, but they also oppose the primary measures to keep those costs down. They're anti-deficit, but also anti-revenues. It just doesn't make much sense. But then I had an … Read more
by von I now have a better understanding of a comment that my father made to me, probably around 1992: "You know, your music really sucks. It just doesn't compare to the music when I was growing up."* In that spirit: Damn you freakin' Millenials! So you think that "Buying [your] first Discman was huge …. [it was] like … Read more
by von Oh for crap's sake …. Yglesias is right. There is absolutely nothing offensive about President Obama calling the Cambridge police department "stupid[]" for arresting Professor Gates. If a cop slapped the bracelets on K-Lo under similar circumstances, I'm pretty sure that The Corner would be calling the move stupid and William Kristol wouldn't be … Read more
by Eric Martin
Stephen Biddle's recent piece on Afghanistan seeks to probe the question asked in the title, Is It Worth It? Biddle's answer is a tepid, tentative "yes." In his words, our ongoing military campaign in Afghanistan represents "a war effort that is costly, risky and worth waging—but only barely so."
As suggested, Biddle is certainly no optimist about our prospects for "victory" in Afghanistan – although, to his credit, he narrows down the criteria to two modest goals when compared to some of the other more grandiose designs associated with the mission since its inception.
The United States has two primary national interests in this conflict: that Afghanistan never again become a haven for terrorism against the United States, and that chaos in Afghanistan not destabilize its neighbors, especially Pakistan. Neither interest can be dismissed, but both have limits as casus belli.
Biddle quickly abandons the first rationale, however, describing it as the "weakest" reason to wage a war considering the fact that: (a) there is no guarantee that the Taliban would welcome al-Qaeda back if the US departs and the Taliban dominates; (b) we can disrupt so-called safe-havens by taking measures far short of all out war; and (c) there are more attractive safe havens available in several other settings, and waging war to shut them down as they crop up is unrealistic in the extreme (also: a key part of Osama Bin Laden's strategy of bleeding our resources by goading us into costly campaigns across the globe) – arguments that this site has been making with some frequency.
Which leaves us with the second rationale alone, about which Biddle has this to say:
Pakistani state collapse, moreover, is a danger over which the United States has only limited influence. We have uneven and historically fraught relations with the Pakistani military and intelligence services, and our ties with the civilian government of the moment can be no more efficacious than that government’s own sway over the country. The United States is too unpopular with the Pakistani public to have any meaningful prospect of deploying major ground forces there to assist the government in counterinsurgency. U.S. air strikes can harass insurgents and terrorists within Pakistan, but the inevitable collateral damage arouses harsh public opposition that could itself threaten the weak government’s stability. U.S. aid is easily (and routinely) diverted to purposes other than countering Islamist insurgents, such as the maintenance of military counterweights to India, graft and patronage, or even support for Islamist groups seen by Pakistani authorities as potential allies against India. U.S. assistance to Pakistan can—and should—be made conditional on progress in countering insurgents, but if these conditions are too harsh, Pakistan might reject the terms, thus removing our leverage in the process. Demanding conditions that the Pakistani government ultimately accepts but cannot reasonably fulfill only sets the stage for recrimination and misunderstanding.
If we cannot reliably influence Pakistan for the better, we should at least heed the Hippocratic Oath: Do no harm. With so little actual leverage, we cannot afford to make the problem any worse than it already is.
That is a very accurate, objective analysis of the situation: our influence in Pakistan is limited; we are extremely unpopular; the use of our military assets engenders resistance and radicalization; Pakistan is more pre-occupied with India; and the Pakistani government is not fully committed to combating those Taliban elements and radicals that it has used, and continues to use, as anti-Indian proxies in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
Given those factors, one could easily see that, since our primary mission should be to "do no harm" in terms of destabilizing Pakistan, we should cease our US-centric (which runs counter to Pakistan's focus), heavy-handed, military interference in the region. After all, our influence is limited, and due to our lack of popularity, and the radicalizing effects of our presence and military campaign, we aren't furthering our goals but undermining them. Biddle, however, comes to the opposite conclusion:
If the Taliban regained control of the Afghan state, their ability to use the state’s resources to destabilize the secular government in Pakistan would increase the risk of state collapse there. Analysts have made much of the threat that Pakistani Taliban base camps pose to the stability of the government in Kabul, but the danger works both ways: Instability in Afghanistan also poses a serious threat to the secular civilian government in Pakistan. This is the single greatest U.S. interest in Afghanistan: to prevent it from aggravating Pakistan’s internal problems and magnifying the danger of an al-Qaeda nuclear-armed sanctuary there.
But Biddle overstates the quality of the threat posed by Afghan Talibs in terms of destabilizing the Pakistani state. The Taliban have long been on the receiving end of Pakistani government largess. They have been cultivated as a proxy and ally useful in terms of creating a strategic redoubt in case of conflict with India, and in further establishing an anti-Indian front in the region. In fact, much of their tenacity and success in Afghanistan today (and previously) is attributable to the ongoing support of their Pakistani patrons.
That is the nature of the Afghan Taliban: a local phenomenon benefiting from the generosity of foreign benefactors. As such, the Afghan Taliban enjoys limited reach and power – especially if it were to actually turn on those same foreign benefactors. Along those lines, what exactly are the Afghan "state's resources" that are supposed to threaten Pakistan (whose military and security forces are far more numerous, vastly better equipped, well trained, etc)? The Afghan state (and various militant factions) have limited economic and military resources – and much of what they have comes from…Pakistan.
This tail is just not capable of wagging the dog, and the Pakistani government knows it. That is why that government continues to support those same Afghan Taliban factions that we are, according to Biddle, supposed to be protecting Pakistan from. Maybe they know something we don't?
Further, Biddle takes it as a given that our ongoing military operations in Afghanistan serve to stabilize the situation in Pakistan without even acknowledging – let alone discussing – the obvious counterpoint: what if our seven+ year military campaign in neighboring Afghanistan (targeting Pakistan's longtime ally), with US forces frequently striking Pakistani territory itself, was actually "aggravating Pakistan’s internal problems."
What if, in asking the Pakistanis to cooperate in the neutralizing of their proxies and in the empowerment of a new regime friendly to India, we were "[d]emanding conditions that the Pakistani government ultimately accepts but cannot reasonably fulfill only set[ting] the stage for recrimination and misunderstanding." Is there any chance that bending the Pakistani government to our agenda – which cuts against its own interests – could cause political problems for that same government?
Shouldn't we at least acknowledge the possibility that wars and occupations often have a radicalizing, destabilizing effect with myriad unintended consequences throughout the war zones? The Pakistani government is certainly sounding that alarm:
by publius I'm not entirely sure why the Post keeps allowing George Will to write about climate change. It's one thing to have different opinions — that's fine. But it's quite another to write demonstrably false factual statements again and again. Will's basic argument seems to be that the United States shouldn't do anything about … Read more
by publius I'd give it a big "eh." Tonight's strategy seemed right, but the execution could have been better. My hope tonight was that Obama would focus more on the human side. The debate has been getting bogged down lately in costs, and CBO reports, and new commissions, etc. All that stuff is extremely important … Read more
by publius I'm sure I'll have something to say about it later tonight, but until then…
by von So I'm reading John McWhorter's reaction to Professor Gates' recent run-in with the Cambridge Police Department, and it occurs to me: Are we missing a salient piece of this puzzle? (H/t Chris Bodenner at The Dish.) No doubt, Professor Gates' race played a role in the zealous stupidity* of some of Cambridge's finest a few … Read more
by publius Generally speaking, I'm all for "big tent-ness." If you have a big majority, you're necessarily going to have diverse interests. That's how Jimmy Madison intended it. (Ghost of Madison to Jefferson — Did that SOB just call me… Jimmy?). But health care is different. On this issue, the Democratic leadership should be less … Read more
by publius Both Von and Mark Thompson have raised some substantive critiques of the Democratic health care plans. So let’s address them. First, Von argues that small businesses will be hurt by the employer penalty – basically the fee companies must pay if they don’t provide coverage. If your payroll is $400,000, you have to … Read more
by Eric Martin One of Andrew Sullivan's guest bloggers, Chris Bodenner, passes along this chilling account of torture and wrongful detention as perpetrated by the Iranian regime: Mowj Camp reports that a deaf and mute man was tortured in Evin prison for several days before he was released. “A detainee, who was suspected of pretending … Read more
by Eric Martin Building on Publius' prior post on the reasonableness of the proposed surtax to pay for health care given the astronomical gains over the prior decade by the top 1% of American earners, Kevin Drum is as shrill as he is quotable. Drum is riffing off a Wall Street Journal article which shows that executive pay is continuing on its … Read more
by von I have to disagree with my co-blogger, Publius, regarding the various (and varied) tax provisions in HR 3200 — that is, the House Democrats' take on Health Care reform. It's not that the proposed surtax on high earners is ipso facto wrong; it's that the surtax is a red herring. Indeed, if you listen … Read more