p-art-y time: open thread

OK, so I know I was mocking the neo-con supporters for partying over the most silly of things, and, in lots of ways, there’s nothing more silly than art, but I’m in day three of the most brutal week, party-schedule-wise, the New York art world has (it’s the Armory Show week), and I want to pre-empt any ridiculous postings I make with the caveat that my poor brain is already dehydrated and underrested and it’s only going to get worse as the week goes on. Last night’s Art Rock party was a blast though, so I have no regrets. If you’re in town for the festivities, by the way, I’ll be the one dancing like a fool with the adorable Asian guy. Do introduce yourself.

And now, at the request of constant reader Frank, here’s an open thread.

70 thoughts on “p-art-y time: open thread”

  1. Thanks. Greedy of me, but I was hoping for a front page mention of Gannon.
    What is the difference between the Jackson and Gannon Scandals? One story appears to have more meat than the other.
    Bush look out the White House window on a snowy morning and sees “Bush Sucks” spelled out in yellow script. He orders FBI to investigate. FBI returns in a day with the answer, but warns W he might not like it.
    W insists. Well, FBI says, urinalysis reveals that JeffGannon has apparently left the press room and written on the lawn. I’ll kill him, W yells. Not so fast, says FBI, the handwriting is Rove’s.

  2. dilettante
    LOL
    hey, I’m a dealer, not an artist…someone has to drink all that free booze…can’t let my artists drink it all, how would they get any work done?

  3. Open thread,huh? I would link this but the DMN archives to subscription very fast. Texas had to fund the schools somehow, and had already slashed spending. They had simultaneously promised property tax relief. So the proposed Republican tax plan:
    cuts property taxes by 1/3;increase state sales tax to 7.25 percent;expands what is covered under sales tax;increases motor vehicle sales tax;adds an additional 3%to above on snack foods;adds $1 per pack cigarette tax;eliminate the business franchise tax;creates a new payroll tax of 1.15%
    Data from front page & inside of DMN; a very conservative newspaper has faith in what follows
    Winners:Finance,insurance,and real estate will have $897 million less in taxes;Farmers & ag will have $72 million less
    Losers:Service sector will pay 1.1 billion more;construction will pay 206 million more
    Breakdown by income, change in tax burden, each group equal in population, about 850 thousand
    0-13,415 +5.57%
    13,415-22,833 +5.16%
    22,833-31,735 +4.95%
    31,735-41,463 +4.62
    (assume a pretty straight line in skipped brackets)
    79,271-100,593 +1.65%
    100,593-140,853 -0.43%
    above 140,853 -2.88%
    Point being not that we have unfair tax policy; point being that we are in a full-blown CLASS WAR. There are no longer restraints;I want every cent the rich have, no matter what it takes to get it. Then maybe we can start over with a fair system. Every cent, no holds barred.

  4. Bob- I sympathize really I do. (Personally I’d just like to kill them. I wan’t others to do the eating.) But its really not a great idea to go that far.
    Even though the ruling class in America is no longer loyal to America in general, getting rid of them whether by taking their money or killing them has long term negative consequences.
    I’m not really sure those consequences are worse than what they are doing to us now, but if you can pull off a bloody revolution you can probably force them to back off a little, so they are no longer standing on our necks.
    It out to be possible to point out to them that they are destroying their own source of power even if they can avoid revolution, but I am no longer hopefull for that method.

  5. If this is an open thread I’d like to make a request. Up top of the topic you have a ‘previous’ ‘main’ and ‘next’ topic link. Any chance you guys could put those same links towards the bottom of threads? I often jump back to the ‘main’ page and have to scroll up to do it.
    If there is an easier way of doing that which I’m missing please let me know.
    PS: I don’t want to use the ‘back’ key because I like seeing what has updated after 10 minutes of reading some threads. :p

  6. Even though the ruling class in America is no longer loyal to America in general, getting rid of them whether by taking their money or killing them has long term negative consequences.
    I’m not really sure those consequences are worse than what they are doing to us now, but if you can pull off a bloody revolution you can probably force them to back off a little, so they are no longer standing on our necks.

    Wow.
    I mean by that… wow.

  7. Mac- Thanks.
    Note I wasn’t proposing a bloody revolution. I took it for granted that anyone could see that Bob’s post above calls for one. Possibly I should have stated that explicitly. Especialy given that I’m not sure how serious Bob was.

  8. “anyone could see that Bob’s post above calls for one.”
    You are attributing language to me not supported by the text. And quite frankly, implying an agenda that is empirically absurd. I know of no method of political change that is an efficient with an army of one, and I say one because I will not be storming the barricades beside you.
    Whatever form the final stage of radical restribution might take, and with sufficient popular support that stage might be peaceable, there are so many necessary steps and stages along the way that there is no particular point in worrying about it. Except as a means of differentiation from moderates and reformists.
    Reading today, it appears there were at least 6 more Democrats who would have voted for that bankruptcy bill had their votes been needed, including the Minority Leader. My point is that liberals and the Democratic Party has shown themselves to be worse than useless, repeatedly, for decades, and it is about time they were abandoned by anyone who cares about the working man. They are in our way.

  9. Bob- Ok I see where you were coming from. I certainly wasn’t offering to storm the barricades alongside you. I think you are naive to think that a political means could achieve your radical redistributionist agenda without bloody civil war. That was one of my points.

  10. As far as getting rid of the democrats goes I don’t think thats possible either. Your best bet is to join your local party and try to effect change from the inside.
    I’ve been thinking a litmus test on torture might be doable. Getting them to look out for the working man would be nice, but harder to achieve.

  11. Can’t seem to find the lyrics to 80s heavy-metal band Krokus’s “Eat the Rich”
    That is, of course, because it’s not a Krokus song, it’s by the immortal Motorhead:

    They say music is the food of love,
    Let’s see if you are hungry enough,
    Take a bite, take another, just like a good boy would,
    Get a sweet thing on the side,
    Home cooking, homicide,
    Side order, could be your daughter,
    Fingerlicking good
    [Chorus:]
    Come on baby, eat the rich,
    Put the bite on the son of a bitch,
    Don’t mess around, don’t give me no switch,
    C’mon baby eat the rich
    C’mon baby eat the rich
    Sittin’ here in a restaurant,
    Tell the waiter just what you want
    Is that the meat, you wanted to eat,
    How would you ever know?
    Hash browns an’ bacon strips,
    I love the way that you lick your lips,
    No fooling, I can see you drooling,
    Feel the hunger grow
    [Chorus]
    Eat up, eat you, eat me,
    Eat two, get one free
    Shetland pony, extra pepperoni
    Just pick up the phone,
    Eat greek, or eat chinese,
    Eat salad, or scarf up grease
    You’re on the shelf, maybe eat yourself,
    Come on, bite my bone

    Really not a political statement, now that I read it.
    In fact, now that I read it, I want to apologize to the ObWi readership. I’m sorry. I’m really, really sorry.
    Sorry.

  12. Hey, I didn’t declare class war; it was declared on me.
    I am not by nature a communist or socialist, and in different conditions I might be on the right side of the spectrum. But it should be obvious that a permanent irrevocable structural change is being attempted, one that establishes an aristocracy of wealth and privilege that cannot be reversed. The only sane response is an equal radicalism.
    Study that breakdown, think of the consequences. Increased taxes on service industries like computer programming,increased taxes on construction;a new payroll tax that will hit small business;increased sales taxes.
    Lower taxes on land, “rents”, capital. This is not a tax structure to create jobs or increase productivity;this is designed specifically to widen the gap between those who work and those who collect “rents.”
    And a tax structure circa 1955 would suit me fine, but rhetoric of the center or moderation will not get us there. We could have gone either way in the early thirties…the United States moved slightly left of center because of twentt years of pressure from the left.

  13. DMN:”…all businesses would have to pay 1.15 percent of each employee’s salary, up to $90,000 per worker annually.” A new tax,in addition to workman’s comp, etc.
    WTF? Will some Republican please explain why this is a good idea?

  14. Bob- You are decades late noticing this phenomina.
    Personaly I’d like to see a slightly more modest government supported entirely by (reasonable no more than 10%) taxes on wealth. My dream is probably politicaly impossible, even though Rush Limbaugh claims he likes the idea of a biblical tax, he keeps thinking that means a sales or income tax rather than a wealth one. (“the tenth part of what you have” is what the bible says.)
    Your dream is outside the realm of politics because the people you want to confiscate the fortunes of will resist to the death. Since they run things it would be your death.

  15. Bob- Oops missed the tax structure of the 50s bit I was going with:”I want every cent the rich have, no matter what it takes to get it. Then maybe we can start over with a fair system. Every cent, no holds barred.”
    never mind.

  16. “I often jump back to the ‘main’ page and have to scroll up to do it.”
    Rather than scrolling, you can simply hit the “home” button, you know. I realize this means two entirely separate actions — pressing “home” and then clicking on “main,” but life is suffering.

  17. I don’t doubt there is a Krokus song but heres the aerosmith lyrics:
    Aerosmith
    Eat the Rich
    by Unknown
    Well I woke up this morning
    On the wrong side of the bed
    And how I got to thinkin’
    About all those things you said
    About ordinary people
    And how they make you sick
    And if callin names kicks back on you
    Then I hope this does the trick
    ‘Cause I’m sick of your complainin’
    About how many bills
    And I’m sick of all your bitchin’
    ‘Bout your poodles and your pills
    And I just can’t see no humor
    About your way of life
    And I think I can do more for you
    With this here fork and knife
    chorus:
    Eat the Rich: there’s only one thing that they’re good for
    Eat the Rich: take one bite now – come back for more
    Eat the Rich: I gotta get this off my chest
    Eat the Rich: take one bite now, spit out the rest
    So I called up my head shrinker
    And told him what I done
    He said you best go on a diet
    Yeah I hope you have some fun
    And a don’t go burst a bubble
    On rich folk who get rude
    ‘Cause you won’t get in no trouble
    When you eats that kind of food
    Now they’re smoking up their junk bonds
    And then they go get stiff
    And they’re dancing at the yacht club
    With Muff and Uncle Biff
    But there’s one good thing that happens
    When you toss your pearls to swine
    Their attitudes may taste like shit
    But go real good with wine
    chorus
    Believe in all the good things
    That money just can’t buy
    Then you won’t get no bellyache
    From eatin’ humble pie
    I believe in rags to riches
    Your inheritance won’t last
    So take your Grey Poupon my friend
    And shove it up your ass!
    chorus:
    Eat the Rich: there’s only one thing that they’re good for
    Eat the Rich: take one bite now – come back for more
    Eat the Rich: don’t stop me now I’m goin’ crazy
    Eat the Rich: that’s my idea of a good time baby
    from: http://aerosmith.lyrics-songs.com/lyrics/879/

  18. The Dead Kennedys – Kill the Poor
    Efficiency and progress is ours once more
    Now that we have the Neutron bomb
    It’s nice and quick and clean and gets things done
    Away with excess enemy
    But no less value to property
    No sense in war but perfect sense at home:
    The sun beams down on a brand new day
    No more welfare tax to pay
    Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
    Jobless millions whisked away
    At last we have more room to play
    All systems go to kill the poor tonight
    Gonna
    Kill kill kill kill Kill the poor:Tonight
    Behold the sparkle of champagne
    The crime rate’s gone
    Feel free again
    O’ life’s a dream with you, Miss Lily White
    Jane Fonda on the screen today
    Convinced the liberals it’s okay
    So let’s get dressed and dance away the night
    While they:
    Kill kill kill kill Kill the poor:Tonight

  19. “equal radicalism”. I’m all for that with equal political ruthlessness, as well.
    Plus, if there no storming to do, why are the barricades being built? Seems like a waste of perfectly good barricades to protect the Republican elite.
    I look forward to the day when “elite” is a really dirty word instead of the cynical Luntzian mouthwash it is now. A word that causes unexpectedly devastating blowback to more than the poor, the bankrupt, the medically indigent, Barbara Streisand, and Dan Rather. We’ll see if Luntz, Norquist and the rest of the Republican elite like life behind the barricades with all of that noise outside. Finish things in a way that makes folks like that wish they’d never started their scummy little hatred of their government and their Orwellian cheapening of the language.
    Something liberals need and should do: Uncompromising tax revolts at every level of government. No taxes, period. When Norquist offers 1% in his elitist last gasp to pay whatever constabulary is protecting him, say No nicely and then hand him the drowned baby’s corpse. See if he enjoys dead government. I expect he will.
    Why shouldn’t things get scary for everyone? Why should some miss the fun?
    This won’t be a bloody revolution, and will end peacefully because Luntz, Norquist, and Delay et al. are ultimately cowards, like all bullies. Luntz will cry and wet his pants, Norquist (not having a sense of humor) will fall on his sword after some waving around of his guns, and Delay has a stash somewhere so he’ll do O.K. Besides, government will have expired so thay can declare victory, as well.
    Of course, there is that “maximum pain” bomb they are developing.
    O.K. I’m a little scared, too.
    Peace and love to all here and maybe some justice, too.

  20. I don’t know about you guys, but this is not my idea of a party.
    Yeah, but it does remind me of The Party.

  21. “DMN:”…all businesses would have to pay 1.15 percent of each employee’s salary, up to $90,000 per worker annually.” A new tax,in addition to workman’s comp, etc.”
    What am I thinking? Every conservative learns this in the cradle. “If you want less of something, just tax it”
    So if you want less consumption and more savings, create a sales ta. If you want less smoking and better health, tax cigarettes.
    And if you want less job creation and new business starts and lower wages, tax job creation.
    Simple. First time in my memory conservatives have had a deliberate open policy of decreasing jobs, but hey Texas is the vanguard, and, ya know, not completely an outlier in Republican Party politics.
    I am just crazy for finding anything remarkable here.

  22. Well, Bob, it’s of a piece with the whole detax-investment-income thing, which I’ve yet to see any sort of principled defence of. I think there’s something to the hereditary-aristocracy thing, in effect if not in intent, as a combined result of detaxing large inheritances and detaxing dividends/capital gains; why should living off of the proceeds of an inherited fortune immunize one from taxation?

  23. Anyone hear Bush’s social security speech today – We need to pass Social Security reform because of the looming shortfall, and it is wrong to saddle our kids and grandkids with our deficits. I am not sure he had a straight face, since it was on the radio, but he sounded serious. Once his presidency is over, I think he has great potential acting in some British sitcom.

  24. Well, Bob, it’s long-term political strategy. Raise taxes on the majority of the population so that they get angry and join Norquist/Delay in their hatred of government. Then you can really drown the baby to majoritarian cheering.
    It may work. What they want is more hatred of government. So they tax middle-class accomodation to government which they want less of. Actually, what they are going to get is no accomodation to government. They just don’t know it yet.
    Then, the fun begins.

  25. You know the Peter Sellers “The Party” reference was pretty funny.
    The initial “The Party” reference was funny, too. But reaction to the Republican elites’ class war will not be of the ideological variety.
    It’ll be more like one of those “When Animals Strike Back” shows wherein some Aussie in cute shorts pokes a big, snoozing crocodile repeatedly with a stick. At some point, the crocodile is going to get a piece of the Aussie and drag him into the lagoon and all that will be left is momentary bubbles.
    The curious may want to stand back.
    I don’t want to see it happen, but I wouldn’t immediately turn the channel. Even though I’ve seen it before.

  26. How much money have the members of Aerosmith made, do you think?
    A more important question is: how many honeys have the members of Aerosmith made?
    [Yes, I’m shallow. Sue me.]

  27. Completely OT: how did it happen that I got into what seems like a version of the Iron Man triathlon, only with speeches? Three in just over 24 hours. Today: Prozac at 1, Freedom of the Will at 4. Tomorrow: Research on Animals at 1:30. What was I thinking when I said yes to all these things?
    Just asking.

  28. Interesting spread of topics, hilzoy. Where and for whom are you giving these speeches?
    I think you were thinking you needed a good excuse to spend tonight and tomorrow night relaxing and drinking hot honeyed tea 🙂

  29. Hilzoy- Because you are a wimpy liberal who can’t say no, and if you were a girl you’d be pregnant all the time? (just kidding)

  30. CaseyL: In order: the students in our MD/PhD program; our Program in Ethics and Brain Sciences; a grad course in research ethics in the school of Public Health. They are all current areas of research interest, except for freedom of the will, which is, well, a past area of research interest, on which I have written all I have to say and more.
    Frank: Can’t be right, since I am a girl and I’m not pregnant.

  31. C’mon dudes and ladies. Just visited Tacitus, forgot his grand opening yesterday. Saw many of the ObsWi crew commenting there. You banned and unbanned him, so let us all get along.
    But for Tac to link the likes of Crooked Timber and Yglesias and even Kevin Drum (who, what, have polite and reasoned commenters?) and leave Obsidian Wings off his blogroll is a gratuitous insult. I am embarrassed for you.

  32. Frank – Thanks; I just went over there to read it. And since this is an open thread, I’ll respond here rather than there:
    1 The tournament model: By paying CEOs an outrageous amount everyone hoping to reach such a position within the organization attempts to stand out. Becoming CEO is a “prize” in a tournament involving all the members of the organization who hope someday to get that job.
    So a CEO job is regarded in much the same light as being the last one standing on ‘Survivor’? Boy, I hope nobody breaks those Richard Hatch-wanna bes’ hearts by telling them “rock star CEOs” are very rarely promoted from within.
    2 The star vs. slug model: Because these jobs can potentially effect the earnings of a company by a large amount (i.e. millions or even 10s of millions) getting the best possible candidate is hugely important, and therefore even if having a huge salary only has a marginal effect in terms of improving the candidate pool it may be worth it.
    I’d maybe buy that, except for oh, let’s see: Eastern Airlines, Sunbeam Corp, Boeing Corp, and HP (just off the top of my head; I could probably find more if I researched). All of whom hired rock star CEOs, who seemed determined from day one to take the company for everything it was worth and leave a hollow shell behind.
    And Disney hired a rock star exec in Mike Ovitz, who managed to badly damage the company, drive off its bright young execs, and alienate his former best friend – for which Herculean labors he was paid $93 million in a severance package.
    The rationale for paying execs 400:1 salary ratios (which I note you’re skeptical of) is, as scientists say, falsified.

  33. Actually while I think there is a small grain of truth in the theory, I don’t buy the idea that they justify a pay ratio of 100x much less 400x
    Kind of serious discussion for an open thread.
    How do Republicans feel about rump rangers in the White House?

  34. Yay! more purging of conservative professors! At Colorado!
    Mitchell taught at the Hallett Diversity Program for 24 straight semesters. That is, until he made the colossal error of actually presenting a (gasp!) diverse opinion, quoting respected conservative black intellectual Thomas Sowell in a discussion about affirmative action.
    Sitting 5 feet from a pink triangle that read “Hate-Free Zone,” the progressive head of the department berated Mitchell, calling him a racist.
    “That would have come as a surprise to my black children,” explains Mitchell, who has nine kids, as of last count, two of them adopted African-Americans.

    And Ward Churchill remains. THAT JUST ROCKS!
    When the tolerent liberal folks take over then Macallan will be among the first against the wall.

  35. “That would have come as a surprise to my black children,” explains Mitchell
    Or possibly not.
    Not that I have any idea (never having read anything he’s written, or heard anything he’s said) if this Mitchell is racist or not.
    But from direct experiences recounted by the black adopted children of white parents, having adopted a black child won’t automatically make someone with racist ideas non-racist. Just as having a lesbian daughter doesn’t make someone automatically not homophobic. Just as having a daughter doesn’t make a man automatically not sexist.
    When the tolerent liberal folks take over then Macallan will be among the first against the wall.
    Thank you, he’s really not my type.

  36. DaveC,
    Let me get this straight. You claim that this guy Mitchell, with 24 semesters of teaching behind him, was fired for talking about Thomas Sowell. Is that right?
    You further claim that this is part of some ongoing “purge” of conservative professors. Is that right?
    You wouldn’t care to provide any information to support any of this would you? I mean besides just putting some stuff in italics with no source or detail as to what happened.

  37. Did DaveC mean his allegation to be taken seriously, Bernard? I assumed the whole thing was a joke. After all, if it had been serious, Mitchell would presumably have been properly identified, and a link made to the Colorado University’s official comment. As it is…

  38. I’m assuming that Mitchell was one of the six Republicans in the humanities department. I guess the other five would have to be fired to constitute a “purge”. (Yes I know 1998 cite is SO “Twentieth Century”:)
    One Party Rule Among Colorado U. Faculty
    Dan Flynn
    Does campus rhetoric about “diversity” translate into an appreciation of intellectual diversity? Not at the University of Colorado-Boulder, where intellectual orthodoxy reigns supreme.
    A survey by the Rocky Mountain News of the political affiliations of college professors at the University of Colorado-Boulder reveals extreme political bias among the school’s faculty.
    The survey of social science and humanities professors enrolled in the two major parties uncovered a Democrat\Republican ratio of greater than 32 to one. Of the 190 professors surveyed, 184 are Democrats and only six are Republicans.

    http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/1998/may_1998_2.html

  39. When the tolerent liberal folks take over then Macallan will be among the first against the wall.
    [blush]
    I’d be honored

  40. Dave,
    keep this in a file somewhere

    <a href=”http://www.xxx.com/xxx/xxx/xxx”>Words you choose to be underlined as link</a>

    replace the http://www.xxx.com/xxx/xxx/xxx stuff with the actual link…and replace the “Words you choose to be underlined as link” with what you want to be the text of your link (your “link text”).
    The thing that trips most people us with these is that you start with a bit of code (which includes the link) then write your “link text” and then have to close the code. Also, your actual link needs to be enclosed with quotation marks
    The way your link above would look when you type it is below (because you didn’t use any “link text” I’ll use your name):
    <a href=”http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E31908%7E2748616,00.html”>Dave’s link</a>
    The way it will look after you post it is
    Dave’s link

  41. Color me dubious, DaveC. Some of the assertions in that Harsanyi column don’t pass the smell test.
    Then, Mitchell had the audacity to use a book on liberal Protestantism in the late 19th century. So repulsed by the word “god” was one student, she complained, and the department chair fired him without a meeting, he said.
    Umm, yeah. That sounds plausible, allright. The atheist liberals have such a strong hold on academia that just mentioning the G word will get you canned. Happens all the time. I suspect there may be something missing from this account of events. The column is short on facts, gives only Mitchell’s view, and seems to simply presume a bias against evangelical christians rather than actually attempting to show such a bias.

  42. DaveC This piece (admittedly from outside of Denver) says that it was because Mitchell used a 1896 book entitled _In His Steps_ and is alleged to have been ‘too overtly Christian’. Reading back through the link, it looks as if it wasn’t that he was teaching Sowell, but his Christianity was at issue. A lot of it would depend on how he was expressing his belief so I think that we need a little more information before opining. More links are appearing, and this one notes he didn’t have tenure, while this letter to the editor has a self-professed liberal defending him. Just to make it clear, I’m not expressing an opinion, I’m just providing links.
    Also, as to Edward’s suggestion, you can check if everything is right by using preview.

  43. I suspect there may be something missing from this account of events.
    I don’t know much about this either, but I smelt a brouhaha and I want to get in front of the developing parade and act like I’m leading.
    Best Regards,
    Honorary Drum major
    Open Thread Smelly Brouhaha Corps

  44. DaveC
    I’d warn you, the definition of a pioneer is the guy you find up the trail with all the arrows sticking in him. ;^)

  45. As Hilzoy has repeatedly pointed out, intellectual diversity is not the same thing as political diversity. The only time my political affiliation ever even came up as a topic at CU was in a political science class–a class where the professor went out of his way to accurately represent all sides of any particular political debate…and that was the semester that we invaded Iraq.
    And since we are busy using isolated anecdotal evidence to project institutional trends, my friend J. was denied tenure there a while back–before the Churchill affair–for pedagogical reasons. He was a radical and a leftist and ran an open classroom. One student complained about his language and his politics and he was gone the next semester. It just goes to show what a conservative institution CU has become.
    …but only if you ignore the institutional politics behind all of this. Politics which have nothing to do with ‘politics’ and everything to do with academic, philosophical, and pedagogical differences.

  46. Hey — someone in Wisconsin just committed suicide, and left a note saying he killed that Illinois judge’s family because she ruled against him on a med mal claim. If it proves to be true, no right-wing terrorism here. TalkLeft has the story.

  47. Oh no, another plate of crow. Charles:

    * Yes, I know the motive and murderer have not yet been identified, but I’m applying Occam’s Razor here. This is a court of opinion, not law, and given the circumstances, I’ve formed the preliminary opinion that the most reasonably probable suspects are white supremacists who are aligned with Hale and his group, Creativity.

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