by hilzoy
Via Talking Points Memo, an article in the Palm Beach News tells us the following:
“Do you want a seven-day weather forecast for your ZIP code? Or hour-by-hour predictions of the temperature, wind speed, humidity and chance of rain? Or weather data beamed to your cellphone?
That information is available for free from the National Weather Service.
But under a bill pending in the U.S. Senate, it might all disappear.
The bill, introduced last week by Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., would prohibit federal meteorologists from competing with companies such as AccuWeather and The Weather Channel, which offer their own forecasts through paid services and free ad-supported Web sites. (…)
“I believe I’ve paid for that data once. … I don’t want to have to pay for it again,” said Scott Bradner, a technical consultant at Harvard University.
He says that as he reads the bill, a vast amount of federal weather data would be forced offline.
“The National Weather Service Web site would have to go away,” Bradner said. “What would be permitted under this bill is not clear — it doesn’t say. Even including hurricanes.” “
Here’s the National Weather Service web page. I think it’s really great: it has all sorts of nifty marine data, reports from manned buoys, aviation stuff (icing forecasts, convection forecasts…), as well as the more usual seven-day weather forecasts and tornado advisories. Moreover, it’s a great example of the sort of thing government should be doing. It’s obviously a good idea for the government to collect meteorological data to protect its citizens by predicting e.g. hurricanes, to help shipping, aviation, farmers, and so on, and to provide the basis for science aimed at a more thorough understanding of the weather patterns that affect the country. Since the data has to be collected, it also makes sense to make it available to ordinary citizens like us. For one thing, we paid for it. For another, putting it on a website is cheap. For a third, this information is really useful to ordinary people: leaving aside its utility to anyone in the path of a hurricane, it’s also useful to sailors, amateur pilots, and everyone else who needs or wants detailed meteorological information. When I go searching for birds on shorelines, for instance, their tidal information and coastal forecasts are invaluable. And my exploration of the NWS web site makes me think that they’re doing this really well: it’s accessible, as detailed as you want it, and really interesting. (I hesitate to think what would have become of me had this been available when I was a kid: I might never have gotten around to doing any homework at all.)
So what, one might ask, is the problem? Well, until about an hour ago, I would have scratched my head and said, “Gee, I can’t imagine.” But Accuweather disagrees:
“Barry Myers, AccuWeather’s executive vice president, said the bill would improve public safety by making the weather service devote its efforts to hurricanes, tsunamis and other dangers, rather than duplicating products already available from the private sector.
“The National Weather Service has not focused on what its core mission should be, which is protecting other people’s lives and property,” said Myers, whose company is based in State College, Pa. Instead, he said, “It spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year, every day, producing forecasts of ‘warm and sunny.'” “
The weather service’s director of strategic planning and policy, however, has a different take: “If someone claims that our core mission is just warning the public of hazardous conditions, that’s really impossible unless we forecast the weather all the time,” Johnson said. “You don’t just plug in your clock when you want to know what time it is.” Which makes sense to me. Rick Santorum has a more likely explanation: “He (…) said expanded federal services threaten the livelihoods of private weather companies.”It is not an easy prospect for a business to attract advertisers, subscribers or investors when the government is providing similar products and services for free,” Santorum said.”
It might not be obvious why, if the government is already collecting information that is very useful to its citizens, it should not provide that information to us for free, even if that means that someone else will not be able to make money taking that same information and charging us for it. It might be even less obvious why we should make it illegal for the government to share with us the information our taxes have paid for, just because it would make some company’s life easier. Why would the Senator from Pennsylvania do this? It’s a mystery.
The key here is that Accuweather is based in State College, PA. Now, I haven’t seen Santorum’s contributer’s list yet, but Hmmmmm…..
But surely these contributions didn’t actually influence Sen. Santorum? After all, we know politicians would never sell their votes for a few thousands in contributions.
[/anti-campaign finance reform talking ponts]
Katherine’s Dad: Hi! Check the last two links.
Really, the whole notion of weather prediction is impious and thus a poor use of federal funds. Citizens should just look at Pat Robertson’s website to see what weather he’s praying for ….
(I also wonder whether the economic pressures at work are related to the recent, hideous redesign of the Weather Channel’s site, which has made the forecast difficult to discover and which just drove me to the NWS site a couple of weeks back.)
Man on dog is so going down in 2006. Vote Casey!
This is nothing. The Repugs have been trying to get rid of NOAA – which includes the NWS – for years. Last year Dubya made a stab at shutting down the Space Weather Center (sounds ridiculous but provides warnings of solar flares and the like). Senator Anal Leakage and his buddies don’t care how many people they kill as long as their buddies profit. After all, only the better class deserve weather forecasting, not us serfs.
Billmon has the perfect reply, in the form of this imaginary article from next June:
If I were the Democrats I would SO be working the commercial fishing angle and other groups who like getting data from NOAA and don’t want to be gouged.
praktike, if you were the Democrats, we’d be in the White House now.
If fishes were horses, my grandfather would be my grandmother.
or something.
If fishes were horses, my grandfather would be my grandmother.
Or you’ve be doing dubs for Nelvana.
This bill is a completely retarded idea. Do companies like AccuWeather and The Weather Channel currently pay the NOAA/NWS for the information? I have to ask because our tax dollars currently pay for the collection of information as well as its distribution and I see sense in my paying for data collection, distribution to private companies and then having to pay those companies for the information. I’m a big fan of capitalism but this is ridiculous.
ugh, the above should read “I see no sense…”, my bad
It don’t take a weatherman to smell from where the wind blows.
Other than that, who has time to worry about the minor outrages like this? With this administration and Congress, you really have to pick and choose which outrages to focus on.
You know those places on the Internets where people refer to their political adversaries as Dimmocrats or Rethuglicans? This isn’t one of those places, Susan. Please read the posting rules and behave accordingly.
That out of the way, this is a really, really bad idea. I can just see it, next hurricane season…
If fishes were horses, my grandfather would be my grandmother.
Or, as my actual grandmother used to say, “If I had some ham, I’d have some ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.”
He (…) said expanded federal services threaten the livelihoods of private weather companies.”It is not an easy prospect for a business to attract advertisers, subscribers or investors when the government is providing similar products and services for free,” Santorum said.”
Oh, brother. I know this takes me off the libertarian reservation, but tough crap. It is not the job of government to engage in profit protection for rent-seekers. If Accuweather cannot come up with a business model that allows them to deliver information that is freely available elsewhere in a unique enough or attractive enough way to attract investors, advertisers and customers, then they need to be in a different business. Period.
The 700 Club weather report:
Disgusting. And don’t get me started on how the IRS, which provides fillable forms on its website, can’t let you e-file them when you’re done because that would compete with private enterprise. It’s totally unreasonable of me, I know, but I’d have thought the government would have an incentive to make it as easy as possible for you to file electronically even if you don’t want to pay tribute to the H&R Blocks of the world.
That out of the way, this is a really, really bad idea. I can just see it, next hurricane season…
Choose your own (admittedly poor) joke below:
A) But Slarti, there won’t be a hurricane season. State Farm and Allstate have contributed good money to ensure as much.
B) But Slarti, they want the max damage possible. Home Depot and lowe’s have contributed good money to ensure as much.
Besides, weather prediction? It’s the devil’s work I tell ya. Just like them scanners down to the grocery
votermom,
Do you live in PA? What is your read on the 2006 election?
DaveL: really? They don’t???
If he’s trying to strike a libertarian pose, maybe he should start by decriminalizing marijuana, curtailing the USA-PATRIOT Act, and slashing discretionary spending. Then we’ll know he’s serious. Even from my perspective, which is very laissez-faire, I’m convinced there are far better battles to be fought.
I don’t see how this is a libertarian issue at all. The National Weather Service is tax-funded. It’s a public service. To say it should stop doing its job so somebody else can make money funneling the same information is nuts.
After I posted Billmon’s thing, as I was cooking dinner, all the other possible extensions of this began running through my mind. Like: we could help private military contractors make more money by barring our army from fighting. We could ban traffic on the highways so that private toll roads could make money. We could close government office buildings so that government agencies had to rent space from deserving landlords. We could shut down all national parks, so that they wouldn’t compete with KOA.
I mean, shutting down the weather service web site is just the beginning of a grand new vision of America.
Wow, that is the neatest website ever! OK I exaggerate, but only a little. Satellite maps, storm watches, spiffy!
Although I must question the wisdom of this project:
The NOAA National Weather Service today announced the implementation of a new Heat/Health Watch Warning System in the Seattle area. Seattle joins 14 other metropolitan areas using the Heat/Health Watch Warning System as guidance for issuing Excessive Heat Watches, Excessive Heat Warnings and Heat Advisories.
C’mon, it almost never gets above 85 out here.
Hilzoy. Sure it is. But the beginning? It’s just a symptom of ongoing insanity and corruption.
I think everyone has hit on some good points. But, there is something else.
The meme that government and its employees do nothing well and in fact waste money, are incompetent, and not sufficiently motivated by tough managers like, say, Bolton, to deliver the goods, is threatened by the many things the government does well. Therefore, those successful functions MUST be denigrated, defunded, and made invisible. It builds the lie.
Two stories which bear repeating: A well-known conservative Democratic Senator (can’t remember the name) was hurrying to his flight the airport. He was accosted by an elderly woman who pleaded please, please, Senator, do not let the government get its hands on my Medicare! Without missing a beat or his flight, the Senator replied: “Don’t worry, ma’am I won’t!
Also, sometime, a few years ago, Bill Gates was quoted as saying, really, most of what the government does, it does quite well. Then Grover Norquist paid him a visit after the Justice Department suit, and there you go.
Senator Santorum is corrupt, yes. But the real corruption is how his ideology destroys all that is good about our government.
I hope he is successful beyond all of his dreams. Then, I want him showing up at my house, trying to collect a few cents of tax to continue in Iraq. It’ll be fun.
John, your comment reminded me of the Bloom County cartoon where Opus wants to become a farmer, and Milo gives him a Farmer’s Aptitude Test, which consists of him having to say the following two sentences in one breath without laughing:
“Keep them flat-footed goombahs in Washington outta my business.”
“Hurry up with my federal bailout check.”
I’m sorry to say that Opus failed.
I’ve seen this story crop up all over today, and every time I shake my head and think that Santorum has really jumped the shark. The breathless media frenzy over only slightly inconvenient weather has already become a running gag in comics, movies, and stand-up–does Santorum really want to affiliate his party with a trend that everyone makes fun of? (The networks in my area, particularly Fox, regularly interrupt programming to warn of rainstorms for the following evening)
Given that it’s national poetry month, some topical verse exerpted from the “Emotional Weather Report” by Tom Waits:
KenB:
Well, there you go. Laughter is considered failure.
It occurs to me that Santorum expects nothing to come of S. 786 since he has no cosponsors. This is just his payoff to the Myers.
It occurs to me that Santorum expects nothing to come of S. 786 since he has no cosponsors. This is just his payoff to the Myers.
So he’s willing to look (even more) like an idiot in the hopes that his supporters are even bigger morons than he is.
Considering it’s Santorum, that actually makes sense.