by liberal japonicus
Thought I'd crack open a thread on X (i.e. ex-Twitter). This is an old article about what the X might have meant. The hole article is a fun look at what X could mean, but a pull graf
X can symbolize divinity and harmony as a symmetrical letter, but references to death, toxicity and the concept of error (cast yourselves back to your schooldays) are never far. With this in mind, Twitter’s new logo feels oddly perfect when taking into account X as the visual representation of two paths crossing. A pair of souls meet and, having failed to establish respectful dialogue or settle on a middle-ground, continue on their original momentum and go their own separate ways. A failed connection, representing a defeat of dialogue in a splintered digital world that was intended to unite in connection, but only succeeded in fostering division.
A pretty apt encapsulation of the Twitter platform, all things considered.
What has me post about this is the Guardian note
Another line of reasoning is that Musk wants to kill Twitter because his investment was in user accounts rather than a social network. There’s a mysterious method to his madness and he wants to destroy the current business model so he can transform it into something a lot more profitable.
Lou Paskalis, former head of global media at Bank of America, seems to be one of the proponents of this theory. “[Musk] is smart, he knows it’s illegal – although usually hard to prove – to intentionally devalue an asset to manipulate creditors, and he knows how to make money so I have to believe he sees an entirely new revenue model that the rest of us don’t yet recognize,” Paskalis told Business Insider. In other words, everything that looks like self-sabotage to the common man is actually a genius business decision.
It’s possible that there is some substance to these theories. But it’s also possible that the simplest answer is the correct one: Musk is a narcissist who has let his enormous ego get in the way of making sensible business decisions. He’s realized that he can’t actually make X profitable so he’s letting it all burn to the ground while casting himself as some sort of free speech martyr.
Again, I don’t know exactly what’s going on in Musk’s brain (I’m not sure he does either) but I do know this: theories that Musk is playing some sort of four-dimensional chess with his bizarre decisions and unprofessional outbursts demonstrate that an awful lot of people find it hard to believe that a rich white guy might not be as smart as he thinks.
I'd put my money on the latter.
I've never been a big Twitter user. Balloon Juice moves to fast for me to keep up, so Twitter is like that Star Trek episode where the aliens are all sped up. And that's just in English. I made an attempt to follow it in Japanese, but it was like drinking from a firehose. Anyway, a thread about Musk's Bonfire of the Vanities or anything else you want to talk about.
“O” has more symmetry than “X”.
I completely agree about the pace of commenting various places. Too slow or too fast, and you don’t get much opportunity for conversation. ObWi is a Goldilocks blog, in that respect.
Also having a website that is not burdened with bunches of java/popup/tracker/BS. Seems to have gotten progressively worse and worse, so that it takes *forever* for some sites to load, and just when you try to click a link, the link shifts out from under your mouse because of some damn fancy crap moves stuff around.
Now pardon me while I shout at some clouds about HTML 0.9.
“O” has more symmetry than “X”.
I completely agree about the pace of commenting various places. Too slow or too fast, and you don’t get much opportunity for conversation. ObWi is a Goldilocks blog, in that respect.
Also having a website that is not burdened with bunches of java/popup/tracker/BS. Seems to have gotten progressively worse and worse, so that it takes *forever* for some sites to load, and just when you try to click a link, the link shifts out from under your mouse because of some damn fancy crap moves stuff around.
Now pardon me while I shout at some clouds about HTML 0.9.
Twitter is useful for situations like Gaza— you find links to articles and some people can type out really long and useful threads. I have used it off and on for years. I mostly ignore it for weeks or months— right now I use it a lot.
Thousgh the long threads would be better as articles on a blog, or as links to an article,
I am not sure what would replace Twitter for situations like Gaza. Maybe there is an equivalent I don’t know about.
Twitter is useful for situations like Gaza— you find links to articles and some people can type out really long and useful threads. I have used it off and on for years. I mostly ignore it for weeks or months— right now I use it a lot.
Thousgh the long threads would be better as articles on a blog, or as links to an article,
I am not sure what would replace Twitter for situations like Gaza. Maybe there is an equivalent I don’t know about.
I am not sure what would replace Twitter for situations like Gaza. Maybe there is an equivalent I don’t know about.
Not if you believe the folks at BJ, who mull over that question on a regular basis.
I’ve cut way, way back on the time I spend at BJ, but I still at least skim the front page posts, and read a lot of them, and I sometimes skim comment threads, mostly scanning for commenters I like. But the comment threads are too often taken over by people sniping at each other over what I see as trivialities, and then they’re a total waste of time.
Back to the point: they quite often mention the topic of whether there’s an equivalent to Twitter (yet?). Quite a few people there are participating in several platforms, and the consensus seems to be no, there isn’t, and maybe there never will be. They debate the various possibilities (Mastodon, Bluesky, I forget what else) — but none of the newer platforms seem to be able to do what Twitter did as a global gathering place.
I’ve never had a Twitter account, but I’ve seen a lot of Twitter, mostly via Anne Laurie’s posts at BJ (and manually following a few other people, like Connie Shultz), and the thing I personally will miss most about it is the quick and quirky humor.
I am not sure what would replace Twitter for situations like Gaza. Maybe there is an equivalent I don’t know about.
Not if you believe the folks at BJ, who mull over that question on a regular basis.
I’ve cut way, way back on the time I spend at BJ, but I still at least skim the front page posts, and read a lot of them, and I sometimes skim comment threads, mostly scanning for commenters I like. But the comment threads are too often taken over by people sniping at each other over what I see as trivialities, and then they’re a total waste of time.
Back to the point: they quite often mention the topic of whether there’s an equivalent to Twitter (yet?). Quite a few people there are participating in several platforms, and the consensus seems to be no, there isn’t, and maybe there never will be. They debate the various possibilities (Mastodon, Bluesky, I forget what else) — but none of the newer platforms seem to be able to do what Twitter did as a global gathering place.
I’ve never had a Twitter account, but I’ve seen a lot of Twitter, mostly via Anne Laurie’s posts at BJ (and manually following a few other people, like Connie Shultz), and the thing I personally will miss most about it is the quick and quirky humor.
ObWi is a Goldilocks blog, in that respect.
Interesting that you should mention that…I’ve been thinking about a post that would (will?) touch at least briefly on ObWi in that regard, both then and now.
ObWi is a Goldilocks blog, in that respect.
Interesting that you should mention that…I’ve been thinking about a post that would (will?) touch at least briefly on ObWi in that regard, both then and now.
I have to believe he sees an entirely new revenue model that the rest of us don’t yet recognize,
Sometimes, however, something is incomprehensible simply because it has no connection to reality. I’m betting that (assuming Musk even has a plan he thinks is clever) it simply won’t work.
I have to believe he sees an entirely new revenue model that the rest of us don’t yet recognize,
Sometimes, however, something is incomprehensible simply because it has no connection to reality. I’m betting that (assuming Musk even has a plan he thinks is clever) it simply won’t work.
As I have said before, I also think it is possible that Musk is going slightly mad. He gets, I believe, very little sleep, obviously has a narcissistic messiah complex (he will be the one to save humanity by taking it to the stars), and is isolated by, as well as the latter, a) huge wealth and b) one gathers huge IQ. Truly, what with populist strongmen gaining ground around the world, and the possible resurgence of Trump, life feels more and more as if we are living in someone’s dystopian novel about the future.
As I have said before, I also think it is possible that Musk is going slightly mad. He gets, I believe, very little sleep, obviously has a narcissistic messiah complex (he will be the one to save humanity by taking it to the stars), and is isolated by, as well as the latter, a) huge wealth and b) one gathers huge IQ. Truly, what with populist strongmen gaining ground around the world, and the possible resurgence of Trump, life feels more and more as if we are living in someone’s dystopian novel about the future.
I viewed the CNBC clip of Musk dropping the F-bomb. To me he doesn’t look at all well.
I viewed the CNBC clip of Musk dropping the F-bomb. To me he doesn’t look at all well.
I just found a new Twitter person to follow on Gaza— Dimi Reider. He did a couple of really good threads.
One problem with Twitter now is that I think you need an account to read very much of it, or that was my experience a few months ago when I was logged off.. It didn’t used to be like that. You could read without being a member. You just couldn’t post, but you could read everything. I even got myself blocked by Rod Dreher under my old account ( he richly deserved my sarcasm) but could still read him if I logged off and was morbidly curious. I didn’t use the old account for so long I forgot both my name and password and couldn’t find either. Got a new one because they stopped letting you read freely.
I don’t know if that openness hurt them as a business or not.
But there really does need to be something like Twitter, especially the older version. I realize it is also a great way to spread lies and BS ( I refuse to use that idiotic term disinformation). But I think the price is worth it if there is genuine free speech and an ability to quickly spread first hand information during a war. The MSM can’t publish as much.
Though even I will admit the ability to create fake videos of virtually anything is or soon will be a huge problem. There will need to be experts to tell us ( if this is possible) which videos are likely real.
I just found a new Twitter person to follow on Gaza— Dimi Reider. He did a couple of really good threads.
One problem with Twitter now is that I think you need an account to read very much of it, or that was my experience a few months ago when I was logged off.. It didn’t used to be like that. You could read without being a member. You just couldn’t post, but you could read everything. I even got myself blocked by Rod Dreher under my old account ( he richly deserved my sarcasm) but could still read him if I logged off and was morbidly curious. I didn’t use the old account for so long I forgot both my name and password and couldn’t find either. Got a new one because they stopped letting you read freely.
I don’t know if that openness hurt them as a business or not.
But there really does need to be something like Twitter, especially the older version. I realize it is also a great way to spread lies and BS ( I refuse to use that idiotic term disinformation). But I think the price is worth it if there is genuine free speech and an ability to quickly spread first hand information during a war. The MSM can’t publish as much.
Though even I will admit the ability to create fake videos of virtually anything is or soon will be a huge problem. There will need to be experts to tell us ( if this is possible) which videos are likely real.
Donald — I’ve had the same experience with Twitter. Before Musk bought it, if I followed a link or poked around I could see not only a post, but the responses to it, in reverse chronological order. Now, if I click on something in (usually) one of Anne Laurie’s BJ posts, I get taken to Twitter and can usually see the tweet, but never the responses.
Donald — I’ve had the same experience with Twitter. Before Musk bought it, if I followed a link or poked around I could see not only a post, but the responses to it, in reverse chronological order. Now, if I click on something in (usually) one of Anne Laurie’s BJ posts, I get taken to Twitter and can usually see the tweet, but never the responses.
I have to believe he sees an entirely new revenue model that the rest of us don’t yet recognize…
I used to think everything he did was about a colony on Mars (or a lunar colony when it turned out Mars was too difficult). Big batteries for various purposes. A rocket that can deliver a 100-ton payload. A boring machine that can be stripped down to go in two such loads, then run off the batteries and drill tunnels for living space. Internet in the sky so the colony is never out of touch with Earth (or other colonies). A compute cloud and information to run over that internet.
With X, I no longer think that. At some point the company misses a payment and the lenders take it into bankruptcy court. I assume the assets don’t match the size of the debts, so they won’t force Chapter 7. I always suspect a privatization effort has hidden financial terms, so we’ll find out then what they are this time.
I have to believe he sees an entirely new revenue model that the rest of us don’t yet recognize…
I used to think everything he did was about a colony on Mars (or a lunar colony when it turned out Mars was too difficult). Big batteries for various purposes. A rocket that can deliver a 100-ton payload. A boring machine that can be stripped down to go in two such loads, then run off the batteries and drill tunnels for living space. Internet in the sky so the colony is never out of touch with Earth (or other colonies). A compute cloud and information to run over that internet.
With X, I no longer think that. At some point the company misses a payment and the lenders take it into bankruptcy court. I assume the assets don’t match the size of the debts, so they won’t force Chapter 7. I always suspect a privatization effort has hidden financial terms, so we’ll find out then what they are this time.
I valued, and miss, Twitter’s utility as an information source for breaking news – but even then, even before Musk, disinformation got out first, fastest, and most broadly.
On the whole, thinking of the world before Twitter, not only do I not see much value or utility in the app anymore, I’m not at all sure it was a net good even before Musk.
People were able to organize before there was Twitter, and fundraise, and get the word out about events and causes.
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake. We’re consumers of content, living life at a remove. It is silo-ing, and alienating, and short circuits our ability to think long and deeply.
I valued, and miss, Twitter’s utility as an information source for breaking news – but even then, even before Musk, disinformation got out first, fastest, and most broadly.
On the whole, thinking of the world before Twitter, not only do I not see much value or utility in the app anymore, I’m not at all sure it was a net good even before Musk.
People were able to organize before there was Twitter, and fundraise, and get the word out about events and causes.
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake. We’re consumers of content, living life at a remove. It is silo-ing, and alienating, and short circuits our ability to think long and deeply.
On things like I-P, the internet made an enormous difference, I think. I remember getting into an argument with friends right after 9/11 about US foreign policy and everything I said sounded like insanity to them and while there was some sort of primitive internet then— Usenet and some other things I can’t recall,, I didn’t know how to send them links or do anything like that. Nowadays you can send links to human rights groups or reputable sources. It wasn’t like I carried around my small library of books on various human rights issues or my collection of Amnesty International and HRW reports.
And it is much easier to push back against newspapers. They had complete control over who could publish a letter to the editor decades ago. Nowadays they usually have comment sections and ( mostly) allow pushback and are acutely aware that people are looking at ther stores and able to talk to each other about bias on the internet.
So on foreign policy stories where most Americans are not directly involved the internet makes it much easier to challenge false mainstream narratives. Of course it also allows people to challenge true mainstream narrratives.
On things like I-P, the internet made an enormous difference, I think. I remember getting into an argument with friends right after 9/11 about US foreign policy and everything I said sounded like insanity to them and while there was some sort of primitive internet then— Usenet and some other things I can’t recall,, I didn’t know how to send them links or do anything like that. Nowadays you can send links to human rights groups or reputable sources. It wasn’t like I carried around my small library of books on various human rights issues or my collection of Amnesty International and HRW reports.
And it is much easier to push back against newspapers. They had complete control over who could publish a letter to the editor decades ago. Nowadays they usually have comment sections and ( mostly) allow pushback and are acutely aware that people are looking at ther stores and able to talk to each other about bias on the internet.
So on foreign policy stories where most Americans are not directly involved the internet makes it much easier to challenge false mainstream narratives. Of course it also allows people to challenge true mainstream narrratives.
This link, for instance ( which I put up earlier) refutes the standard line that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties and they all result from Hamas using human shields.
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
Before the internet, you might possibly find a magazine like 972 in a very good university library, maybe. It might as well not have existed. But everyone who is following the issue closely will have seen that article linked over and over again on Twitter.
This link, for instance ( which I put up earlier) refutes the standard line that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties and they all result from Hamas using human shields.
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
Before the internet, you might possibly find a magazine like 972 in a very good university library, maybe. It might as well not have existed. But everyone who is following the issue closely will have seen that article linked over and over again on Twitter.
This link, for instance ( which I put up earlier) refutes the standard line that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties and they all result from Hamas using human shields.
I must live in some kind of information bubble (:-). Because, while I’m aware that the Israeli government puts that spin out, I haven’t seen much (a tiny bit, but not much) of it elsewhere. Certainly not enough to call it a “standard line.”
I confess that, a few decades ago, it might have been another story. But this Israeli government? Ha!
This link, for instance ( which I put up earlier) refutes the standard line that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties and they all result from Hamas using human shields.
I must live in some kind of information bubble (:-). Because, while I’m aware that the Israeli government puts that spin out, I haven’t seen much (a tiny bit, but not much) of it elsewhere. Certainly not enough to call it a “standard line.”
I confess that, a few decades ago, it might have been another story. But this Israeli government? Ha!
Because, while I’m aware that the Israeli government puts that spin out, I haven’t seen much (a tiny bit, but not much) of it elsewhere.
It is a standard line. The Israeli spokesmen interviewed each night on C4 News repeat it.
I confess that, a few decades ago, it might have been another story. But this Israeli government? Ha
A few decades ago, it might have been true, at least some of the time. But with this Israeli government it is just that: a line for propaganda purposes.
Because, while I’m aware that the Israeli government puts that spin out, I haven’t seen much (a tiny bit, but not much) of it elsewhere.
It is a standard line. The Israeli spokesmen interviewed each night on C4 News repeat it.
I confess that, a few decades ago, it might have been another story. But this Israeli government? Ha
A few decades ago, it might have been true, at least some of the time. But with this Israeli government it is just that: a line for propaganda purposes.
What does Musk hope to accomplish by crashing twitter into dust? Damnned if I know. Here’s one take:
https://slate.com/technology/2023/11/elon-musk-advertisers-curse-out-dealbook-antisemitism.html
It might have some merit.
What does Musk hope to accomplish by crashing twitter into dust? Damnned if I know. Here’s one take:
https://slate.com/technology/2023/11/elon-musk-advertisers-curse-out-dealbook-antisemitism.html
It might have some merit.
I thought there was a lot to this, on Friday:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/war-hamas-israel-tragic-choice?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I thought there was a lot to this, on Friday:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/war-hamas-israel-tragic-choice?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The “they try to avoid civilian casualties” is the line that was put out by John Kirby (the Biden spokesperson) early on and now that they are criticizing what was done in Northern Gaza, they told the Israelis not to do that in Southern Gaza. And they claim that the Israelis are trying, though so far it looks pretty much like they are doing the same things.
Anyway, that belongs more in the open thread. The relevant point here is that there is all sorts of useful info and links (and people reporting from within Gaza to the extent they can) that you can find on Twitter, and the Internet has made alternative non-mainstream views much much easier to access. That, of course, can be good or bad, depending on the issue and whether the mainstream is right–also, there are always going to be multiple alternative views, some worth hearing and some pure garbage. Though even the pure garbage ones are worth knowing about, in the sense that you can see what these people are like online, at a safe distance, so to speak.
The “they try to avoid civilian casualties” is the line that was put out by John Kirby (the Biden spokesperson) early on and now that they are criticizing what was done in Northern Gaza, they told the Israelis not to do that in Southern Gaza. And they claim that the Israelis are trying, though so far it looks pretty much like they are doing the same things.
Anyway, that belongs more in the open thread. The relevant point here is that there is all sorts of useful info and links (and people reporting from within Gaza to the extent they can) that you can find on Twitter, and the Internet has made alternative non-mainstream views much much easier to access. That, of course, can be good or bad, depending on the issue and whether the mainstream is right–also, there are always going to be multiple alternative views, some worth hearing and some pure garbage. Though even the pure garbage ones are worth knowing about, in the sense that you can see what these people are like online, at a safe distance, so to speak.
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake. We’re consumers of content, living life at a remove. It is silo-ing, and alienating, and short circuits our ability to think long and deeply.
I partly agree with this but am less pessimistic, I guess. Cell phones would have to be included on the list of things that are allowing people to live life at a remove — 20 years ago, well before people started doing all their internet things on the phone, I said that “people are never where they are anymore” — people sitting at a restaurant table, for example, all lost in their phones. Why did they bother to go out together?
I think we were plenty silo-ed pre-internet, it just showed in different ways, and a lot of it could be, and was, better hidden. On the other hand, the internet has allowed us to make connections and — for me at least — hear opinions and learn things that I would never have run across otherwise. I treasure some of the connections I’ve made, and still nurture, online. In that respect it has been a boon to housebound people for building community.
The thing I don’t think there’s any good solution for is “free speech,” and the sifting of good information from bad. Who decides? …
I imagine services coming into being that will sift and evaluate (Snopes on steroids) — people could subscribe to the one(s) they trust. But I don’t really believe it’s a function that’s humanly (even collectively) possible to keep up with.
(First real storm of the season…one day too late, I’m going off to get my snow tires put on the car.)
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake. We’re consumers of content, living life at a remove. It is silo-ing, and alienating, and short circuits our ability to think long and deeply.
I partly agree with this but am less pessimistic, I guess. Cell phones would have to be included on the list of things that are allowing people to live life at a remove — 20 years ago, well before people started doing all their internet things on the phone, I said that “people are never where they are anymore” — people sitting at a restaurant table, for example, all lost in their phones. Why did they bother to go out together?
I think we were plenty silo-ed pre-internet, it just showed in different ways, and a lot of it could be, and was, better hidden. On the other hand, the internet has allowed us to make connections and — for me at least — hear opinions and learn things that I would never have run across otherwise. I treasure some of the connections I’ve made, and still nurture, online. In that respect it has been a boon to housebound people for building community.
The thing I don’t think there’s any good solution for is “free speech,” and the sifting of good information from bad. Who decides? …
I imagine services coming into being that will sift and evaluate (Snopes on steroids) — people could subscribe to the one(s) they trust. But I don’t really believe it’s a function that’s humanly (even collectively) possible to keep up with.
(First real storm of the season…one day too late, I’m going off to get my snow tires put on the car.)
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
Also, this made me smile a bit. We are awash in such “mistakes,” inventions that can’t be unraveled or made to disappear after the fact — the internal combustion engine? weaponry? (the printing press? the wheel?). All of them are a mixed blessing. (Except maybe the wheel?)
I think they are faits accomplis, so the contuing challenge is how best to manage them. (And/or how best to manage human nature in relation to them.)
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
Also, this made me smile a bit. We are awash in such “mistakes,” inventions that can’t be unraveled or made to disappear after the fact — the internal combustion engine? weaponry? (the printing press? the wheel?). All of them are a mixed blessing. (Except maybe the wheel?)
I think they are faits accomplis, so the contuing challenge is how best to manage them. (And/or how best to manage human nature in relation to them.)
…people sitting at a restaurant table, for example, all lost in their phones. Why did they bother to go out together?
Just an off-the-wall guess. But perhaps so both could be on their phones, rather than one losing valuable on-line time while fixing dinner.
I suppose that assumes couples living together rather than just dating. But still….
…people sitting at a restaurant table, for example, all lost in their phones. Why did they bother to go out together?
Just an off-the-wall guess. But perhaps so both could be on their phones, rather than one losing valuable on-line time while fixing dinner.
I suppose that assumes couples living together rather than just dating. But still….
Re bobbyp’s link… It’s hard to remember to think about “The worst that can happen is I have a $20B (or whatever his actual share is) capital loss that I can use when I decide to sell part of SpaceX so I don’t have to pay taxes on that gain…”
Re bobbyp’s link… It’s hard to remember to think about “The worst that can happen is I have a $20B (or whatever his actual share is) capital loss that I can use when I decide to sell part of SpaceX so I don’t have to pay taxes on that gain…”
JanieM – I’ve gotten to know and befriend quite a few people that if the online world didn’t exist, I would never have even met. You’re one of them, in fact. But, for all that, I’m still not sure online life as it is, is a net gain/net good. Maybe if we’d stopped with blogs…
Michael – It would be genuinely hilarious if the reason Musk wrecked Twitter was so he could have a big tax write-off.
JanieM – I’ve gotten to know and befriend quite a few people that if the online world didn’t exist, I would never have even met. You’re one of them, in fact. But, for all that, I’m still not sure online life as it is, is a net gain/net good. Maybe if we’d stopped with blogs…
Michael – It would be genuinely hilarious if the reason Musk wrecked Twitter was so he could have a big tax write-off.
“…stopped with blogs,” is more ambiguous than I meant it to be. I don’t mean, if we’d stopped blogging. I mean, if we had just kept blogging and groupnetting, and not gone on to instant online global chat.
“…stopped with blogs,” is more ambiguous than I meant it to be. I don’t mean, if we’d stopped blogging. I mean, if we had just kept blogging and groupnetting, and not gone on to instant online global chat.
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
Lol, back in the pre-internet days only assorted weirdos, bored pensioners and anoraks would write the occasional letter to the editor – now everyone is doing it on a daily basis. What could possibly go wrong…
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
Lol, back in the pre-internet days only assorted weirdos, bored pensioners and anoraks would write the occasional letter to the editor – now everyone is doing it on a daily basis. What could possibly go wrong…
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
The internet has been an enormous step forward for the academic and pseudo-academic communities. The mistake was we let the “civilians” in.
Frankly, I have come around to thinking the online world was a mistake.
The internet has been an enormous step forward for the academic and pseudo-academic communities. The mistake was we let the “civilians” in.
“The Year that September Never Ended”
“The Year that September Never Ended”
We need an alternate 2004 timeline in which Facebook flops and academics, rather than treating digital engagement as a distraction, go full on Bitch PhD/Hilzoy/SEK and launch a golden era of intellectual outreach.
Bonus points if we can push that back to 2000 and get a redo of Bush v Gore as a lagniappe.
We need an alternate 2004 timeline in which Facebook flops and academics, rather than treating digital engagement as a distraction, go full on Bitch PhD/Hilzoy/SEK and launch a golden era of intellectual outreach.
Bonus points if we can push that back to 2000 and get a redo of Bush v Gore as a lagniappe.
[I’m surprised I’m the first to post this.]
[I’m surprised I’m the first to post this.]
How to get ratioed on X/Twitter.
How to get ratioed on X/Twitter.
I enjoyed twitter back in the day. I followed lots of writers, artists, poets, historians, scientists, all kinds of people. I got into substantive conversations with people I never would have met any other way. But I quit a long time ago, shortly after Musk started running the site down.
I enjoyed twitter back in the day. I followed lots of writers, artists, poets, historians, scientists, all kinds of people. I got into substantive conversations with people I never would have met any other way. But I quit a long time ago, shortly after Musk started running the site down.
“The “they try to avoid civilian casualties” is the line that was put out by John Kirby (the Biden spokesperson) early on and now that they are criticizing what was done in Northern Gaza, they told the Israelis not to do that in Southern Gaza. And they claim that the Israelis are trying, though so far it looks pretty much like they are doing the same things.”
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability and make Gaza uninhabitable so that those who manage to survive have to leave.
“The “they try to avoid civilian casualties” is the line that was put out by John Kirby (the Biden spokesperson) early on and now that they are criticizing what was done in Northern Gaza, they told the Israelis not to do that in Southern Gaza. And they claim that the Israelis are trying, though so far it looks pretty much like they are doing the same things.”
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability and make Gaza uninhabitable so that those who manage to survive have to leave.
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability and make Gaza uninhabitable so that those who manage to survive have to leave.
Yes, if there are no Palestinians in Gaza then Israel doesn’t have a Gaza problem. The big question is where they might go. Recent population of the Gaza Strip is about 2.4 million people. Egypt doesn’t accept refugees from Gaza because they don’t want Hamas operating from/in Egypt. Jordan doesn’t seem inclined to take very many of them these days.
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability and make Gaza uninhabitable so that those who manage to survive have to leave.
Yes, if there are no Palestinians in Gaza then Israel doesn’t have a Gaza problem. The big question is where they might go. Recent population of the Gaza Strip is about 2.4 million people. Egypt doesn’t accept refugees from Gaza because they don’t want Hamas operating from/in Egypt. Jordan doesn’t seem inclined to take very many of them these days.
The leaders of the surrounding countries won’t say it out loud but they’re likely hoping Israel completely radicates Hamas.
The leaders of the surrounding countries won’t say it out loud but they’re likely hoping Israel completely radicates Hamas.
Jordan already took far more in the past than the poor country could reasonably shoulder, too many to fully integrate. The latter is a significant source of the problems to-day. Egypt could not shoulder a million extra citizens or more even without the political problems. The Gulf states want only de facto slave workers, and their attempts to become buddies with Israel (unpopular with their population) is also a strong disincentive to letting Palestinians in. Syria, Lebanon and Iran are completely out of the question. [sarcasm] Yemen maybe? [/sarcasm].
If the Isrealis would simply kill them all, at least some Arab state leaderships would be happy: a) no burden- and troublesome people to worry about*
b) very useful as martyrs should the wind turn**.
*cue Stalin quote
**dead people don’t complain about the abuse of their fate
Jordan already took far more in the past than the poor country could reasonably shoulder, too many to fully integrate. The latter is a significant source of the problems to-day. Egypt could not shoulder a million extra citizens or more even without the political problems. The Gulf states want only de facto slave workers, and their attempts to become buddies with Israel (unpopular with their population) is also a strong disincentive to letting Palestinians in. Syria, Lebanon and Iran are completely out of the question. [sarcasm] Yemen maybe? [/sarcasm].
If the Isrealis would simply kill them all, at least some Arab state leaderships would be happy: a) no burden- and troublesome people to worry about*
b) very useful as martyrs should the wind turn**.
*cue Stalin quote
**dead people don’t complain about the abuse of their fate
The leaders of the surrounding countries are monarchies and dictatorships. What they want is not what their people want. Not that their people are perfect members of Amnesty International either–they have their biases obviously. But they are going to be sympathetic to the Gazans and if their lovely rulers side openly with Israel against Hamas, they are likely to have some riots or worse on their hands. So no, they won’t say what they think out loud.
What is always amusing in a dark depressing sort of way is listening to some Saudi official talk about human rights. Just a couple months ago the big dream of Biden, Bibi, and Thomas Friedman was an open peace treaty and maybe anti-Iranian alliance between Israel and the Saudis–disrupting that was almost certainly one of the motives for the Oct 7 massacre.
The leaders of the surrounding countries are monarchies and dictatorships. What they want is not what their people want. Not that their people are perfect members of Amnesty International either–they have their biases obviously. But they are going to be sympathetic to the Gazans and if their lovely rulers side openly with Israel against Hamas, they are likely to have some riots or worse on their hands. So no, they won’t say what they think out loud.
What is always amusing in a dark depressing sort of way is listening to some Saudi official talk about human rights. Just a couple months ago the big dream of Biden, Bibi, and Thomas Friedman was an open peace treaty and maybe anti-Iranian alliance between Israel and the Saudis–disrupting that was almost certainly one of the motives for the Oct 7 massacre.
Back to the uses of Twitter–one thing it is very good on is seeing the real time efforts of various people to spread BS in wartime. I don’t think the MSM does this–that is, report on the various lies and spin by the various sides in detail. For example, on the initial hospital bombing, I think all three sides were lying. As it happens I decided that it was a Palestinian rocket that misfired, not on the basis of the claims of the US and Israel, but because the Hamas lie seemed the most damning. They claimed they couldn’t find any fragments. So that suggested they didn’t want to find them.
The Israelis claimed they had tapes of Hamas guys admitting over the airwaves that it was one of theirs, and on Twitter Arab speakers ridiculed this, saying that the voices had the wrong accents. Israel also put out a fake video of a nurse at the Al Shifa (I am horrible at spelling) hospital claiming that Hamas was in the basement, and again the Arab speakers ridiculed the accent and people at the hospital claimed they didn’t know who this was. The tweet was taken down. There were other episodes like this. (The US claim to analyze the video evidence was disputed by the NYT expert–the NYT didn’t take a position on who hit the hospital, but merely disputed the US evidence.)
I decided after numerous flipflops that it was the Palestinians because Hamas’s lie didn’t make sense unless they just wanted to conceal physical evidence that would show it was not Israel. I considered the other lies to be attempts by Israel and maybe the US to frame a guilty man. It doesn’t change my overall view of the conflict–a war between two sets of war criminals. But it is fascinating to watch the propaganda claims fly back and forth. There have been several other examples I could talk about. Previously I would just read about this in books or articles. It would help greatly if I had a thorough knowledge of written and spoken Arabic,and the accents but I have none at all, so I am taking the word of all those (Western and Arab) who say they do.
Back to the uses of Twitter–one thing it is very good on is seeing the real time efforts of various people to spread BS in wartime. I don’t think the MSM does this–that is, report on the various lies and spin by the various sides in detail. For example, on the initial hospital bombing, I think all three sides were lying. As it happens I decided that it was a Palestinian rocket that misfired, not on the basis of the claims of the US and Israel, but because the Hamas lie seemed the most damning. They claimed they couldn’t find any fragments. So that suggested they didn’t want to find them.
The Israelis claimed they had tapes of Hamas guys admitting over the airwaves that it was one of theirs, and on Twitter Arab speakers ridiculed this, saying that the voices had the wrong accents. Israel also put out a fake video of a nurse at the Al Shifa (I am horrible at spelling) hospital claiming that Hamas was in the basement, and again the Arab speakers ridiculed the accent and people at the hospital claimed they didn’t know who this was. The tweet was taken down. There were other episodes like this. (The US claim to analyze the video evidence was disputed by the NYT expert–the NYT didn’t take a position on who hit the hospital, but merely disputed the US evidence.)
I decided after numerous flipflops that it was the Palestinians because Hamas’s lie didn’t make sense unless they just wanted to conceal physical evidence that would show it was not Israel. I considered the other lies to be attempts by Israel and maybe the US to frame a guilty man. It doesn’t change my overall view of the conflict–a war between two sets of war criminals. But it is fascinating to watch the propaganda claims fly back and forth. There have been several other examples I could talk about. Previously I would just read about this in books or articles. It would help greatly if I had a thorough knowledge of written and spoken Arabic,and the accents but I have none at all, so I am taking the word of all those (Western and Arab) who say they do.
And Bibi knows exactly what buddies he is acquiring there. He also has a hearty relationship with Orban and the Polish (hopefully soon past) RW government who both use antisemitism as a regular tool. As long as it is authoritarian, illiberal and corrupt, he’s happy to do business with it.
And Bibi knows exactly what buddies he is acquiring there. He also has a hearty relationship with Orban and the Polish (hopefully soon past) RW government who both use antisemitism as a regular tool. As long as it is authoritarian, illiberal and corrupt, he’s happy to do business with it.
As long as it is authoritarian, illiberal and corrupt, he’s happy to do business with it.
I’d say that’s like Trump. Except that Trump wouldn’t hesitate to ignore the “illiberal” requirement (assuming a regime which met the other two criteria was available). Actually, I think for him it would be “or” rather than “and”.
As long as it is authoritarian, illiberal and corrupt, he’s happy to do business with it.
I’d say that’s like Trump. Except that Trump wouldn’t hesitate to ignore the “illiberal” requirement (assuming a regime which met the other two criteria was available). Actually, I think for him it would be “or” rather than “and”.
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability
If I believed this, I would be prepared to call it a genocide. As I said before, I wouldn’t dream of speculating about the secret wish of Bibi’s heart, but I don’t believe that this is the goal of the vast majority of the IDF or the Israeli public.
I think the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible with “plausible” deniability
If I believed this, I would be prepared to call it a genocide. As I said before, I wouldn’t dream of speculating about the secret wish of Bibi’s heart, but I don’t believe that this is the goal of the vast majority of the IDF or the Israeli public.
anything else you want to talk about
In case we were about to run out of depressing topics, here’s a post from Betty Cracker at BJ about Uvalde. And here’s a long comment from a BJ commenter I respect a lot.
Supposedly one “good guy with a gun” should be able to save children/people from this kind of bloodbath, but for some weird reason, hundreds of law enforcement officers showed up and did shit that day.
anything else you want to talk about
In case we were about to run out of depressing topics, here’s a post from Betty Cracker at BJ about Uvalde. And here’s a long comment from a BJ commenter I respect a lot.
Supposedly one “good guy with a gun” should be able to save children/people from this kind of bloodbath, but for some weird reason, hundreds of law enforcement officers showed up and did shit that day.
Whatever the hardliners aspirations might be, the whole Iraq debacle and its aftermath should have taught them that there is no such thing as eradicating Hamas any more than we were able to eradicate Daesh. All the hardliners will do is force Hamas to evolve into an even more disperse entity that increases the shock value of their attacks to make up for the attacks’ reductions in scale.
As far as language to describe what is happening goes, I’ll say once again that what this looks like to me, more than anything else, is an old fashioned bloodfeud. (Though given the asymmetries here, it has some features of an outlaw saga as well.) If I am right in this reading of the situation, then there will be no legal solution available until we burn through the ones actually driving these extrajudicial tactics. And I don’t like our odds for that.
Whatever the hardliners aspirations might be, the whole Iraq debacle and its aftermath should have taught them that there is no such thing as eradicating Hamas any more than we were able to eradicate Daesh. All the hardliners will do is force Hamas to evolve into an even more disperse entity that increases the shock value of their attacks to make up for the attacks’ reductions in scale.
As far as language to describe what is happening goes, I’ll say once again that what this looks like to me, more than anything else, is an old fashioned bloodfeud. (Though given the asymmetries here, it has some features of an outlaw saga as well.) If I am right in this reading of the situation, then there will be no legal solution available until we burn through the ones actually driving these extrajudicial tactics. And I don’t like our odds for that.
Well, it would be genocide — exactly within the definition.
I would agree that the vast majority of Israelis (and of the IDF) are not of that view. And I doubt that Bibi cares one way or the other. Unfortunately, he is dependent, in order to stay in power (and out of jail, he hopes), on the far right — who do want to kill off as many Palestinians (in the West Bank as well as Gaza) as possible. And, frankly, aren’t particularly concerned about plausible deniability either.
Well, it would be genocide — exactly within the definition.
I would agree that the vast majority of Israelis (and of the IDF) are not of that view. And I doubt that Bibi cares one way or the other. Unfortunately, he is dependent, in order to stay in power (and out of jail, he hopes), on the far right — who do want to kill off as many Palestinians (in the West Bank as well as Gaza) as possible. And, frankly, aren’t particularly concerned about plausible deniability either.
There’s a Doonesbury cartoon from a decade or so ago that I can’t find. The war correspondent is interviewing a West Bank settler. She tells him something like “We didn’t come all the way from Cincinnati to be Arabs.”
There’s a Doonesbury cartoon from a decade or so ago that I can’t find. The war correspondent is interviewing a West Bank settler. She tells him something like “We didn’t come all the way from Cincinnati to be Arabs.”
A tweet thread on the casualty figures coming out of Gaza.
A tweet thread on the casualty figures coming out of Gaza.
That’s a predictably silly thread, CharlesWT. You know what it is going to be like based on the attacks at the top of the person’s account on those noted anti-Israel groups Amnesty International and HRW.
The civilian death toll in the 2014 was 1400 or so. This war is on a vastly larger scale, so the civilian death toll is also going to be vastly larger. I doubt that the Health ministry actually compiles the death toll accurately on a day to day basis–they accumulate data and report it and it might go up dramatically on a given day depending on what they manage to find out. Lately, with most hospitals out of commission, it’s likely to be an even bigger undercount than before. So I for one don’t trust the Gaza figures–I don’t think they could possibly be keeping an accurate count and the true figure is likely to be considerably higher.
As for Hamas dead, I suspect that Hamas might not let them report their numbers even under the heading of “male dead”.
But if we want kooky stuff, I can supply some of that from the other side, if people are interested. I doubt they are, but yes, there is some kooky denialism on the pro-Palestinian side too. The most extreme is that virtually all the civilian dead on Oct 7 were caused by friendly fire. (Some were caused that way, as reported in the Israeli press, but you would expect that in the confusion. Going from that to making it sound like all or most of it was is where it gets kooky.)
That’s a predictably silly thread, CharlesWT. You know what it is going to be like based on the attacks at the top of the person’s account on those noted anti-Israel groups Amnesty International and HRW.
The civilian death toll in the 2014 was 1400 or so. This war is on a vastly larger scale, so the civilian death toll is also going to be vastly larger. I doubt that the Health ministry actually compiles the death toll accurately on a day to day basis–they accumulate data and report it and it might go up dramatically on a given day depending on what they manage to find out. Lately, with most hospitals out of commission, it’s likely to be an even bigger undercount than before. So I for one don’t trust the Gaza figures–I don’t think they could possibly be keeping an accurate count and the true figure is likely to be considerably higher.
As for Hamas dead, I suspect that Hamas might not let them report their numbers even under the heading of “male dead”.
But if we want kooky stuff, I can supply some of that from the other side, if people are interested. I doubt they are, but yes, there is some kooky denialism on the pro-Palestinian side too. The most extreme is that virtually all the civilian dead on Oct 7 were caused by friendly fire. (Some were caused that way, as reported in the Israeli press, but you would expect that in the confusion. Going from that to making it sound like all or most of it was is where it gets kooky.)
Number of buildings damaged or destroyed in the 2014 war was about 10,000
https://unitar.org/about/news-stories/news/impact-2014-conflict-gaza-strip-unosat-satellite-derived-geospatial-analysis#:~:text=Overall%20Damage%20Analysis&text=It%20should%20also%20be%20noted,kilometers%20from%20the%20Armistice%20Line.
Number of buildings damaged or destroyed in the 2014 war was about 10,000
https://unitar.org/about/news-stories/news/impact-2014-conflict-gaza-strip-unosat-satellite-derived-geospatial-analysis#:~:text=Overall%20Damage%20Analysis&text=It%20should%20also%20be%20noted,kilometers%20from%20the%20Armistice%20Line.
Hard to make a 1 to 1 comparison with 2014, but this piece says over 40,000 housing units destroyed and over 200,000 buildings damaged in the 2023 conflict so far.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/middleeast/map-humanitarian-aid-water-power-hospitals-gaza-strip-dg/
Hard to make a 1 to 1 comparison with 2014, but this piece says over 40,000 housing units destroyed and over 200,000 buildings damaged in the 2023 conflict so far.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/middleeast/map-humanitarian-aid-water-power-hospitals-gaza-strip-dg/
“If I believed this, I would be prepared to call it a genocide. As I said before, I wouldn’t dream of speculating about the secret wish of Bibi’s heart, but I don’t believe that this is the goal of the vast majority of the IDF or the Israeli public.”
I don’t think that genocide is the goal of everyone in Israel. I don’t know what percentage of the population supports the apartheid and ethnic cleansing that preceded the terrorist attack and I don’t know what percentage supports the mass murder going on now. I assume that it is not everyone, perhaps not even a majority.
13 thousand dead. If that’s not deliberate, then what is it? Incompetence? Acceptable collateral damage (acceptable to who?) Unfortunate accidents? Defense isn’t an excuse. Remember: Netanyahu supported Hamas and his government was informed about the attack well ahead of time and could have stopped it.
The Israeli army is literally chasing civilians up and down inside the small area where they are imprisoned. Of course they are running up the score.
“If I believed this, I would be prepared to call it a genocide. As I said before, I wouldn’t dream of speculating about the secret wish of Bibi’s heart, but I don’t believe that this is the goal of the vast majority of the IDF or the Israeli public.”
I don’t think that genocide is the goal of everyone in Israel. I don’t know what percentage of the population supports the apartheid and ethnic cleansing that preceded the terrorist attack and I don’t know what percentage supports the mass murder going on now. I assume that it is not everyone, perhaps not even a majority.
13 thousand dead. If that’s not deliberate, then what is it? Incompetence? Acceptable collateral damage (acceptable to who?) Unfortunate accidents? Defense isn’t an excuse. Remember: Netanyahu supported Hamas and his government was informed about the attack well ahead of time and could have stopped it.
The Israeli army is literally chasing civilians up and down inside the small area where they are imprisoned. Of course they are running up the score.
I’d be interested in the opinion here on the controversy about representative Jayapal’s interview on CNN concerning rape in the context of the Gaza situation.
The impression I got is that the interviewer tried to get her to justify the death toll in Gaza because of the sexual atrocities committed by Hamas on their female victims and she simply refused (while leaving no doubt that she condemns what Hamas has done). And this conjured up a shitstorm in other media (in particular MSNBC) accusing her of whataboutism and even victim blaming (and commenters of course called her a Hamas apologist etc.*).
But that is just my perspective. I am neither Jewish nor Palestinian nor female nor am I otherwise directly involved.
Are you of the opinion that she was the weasel there, could have expressed herself better, should be outright condemned since what she said was beyond the pale or is the victim of a hit job and the criticism is primarily hypocritical virtue signaling.
*which of course triggered counter comments of the “Zionist controlled media” kind. You know the routine in comment threads on youtube and elsewhere as well as I do.
I’d be interested in the opinion here on the controversy about representative Jayapal’s interview on CNN concerning rape in the context of the Gaza situation.
The impression I got is that the interviewer tried to get her to justify the death toll in Gaza because of the sexual atrocities committed by Hamas on their female victims and she simply refused (while leaving no doubt that she condemns what Hamas has done). And this conjured up a shitstorm in other media (in particular MSNBC) accusing her of whataboutism and even victim blaming (and commenters of course called her a Hamas apologist etc.*).
But that is just my perspective. I am neither Jewish nor Palestinian nor female nor am I otherwise directly involved.
Are you of the opinion that she was the weasel there, could have expressed herself better, should be outright condemned since what she said was beyond the pale or is the victim of a hit job and the criticism is primarily hypocritical virtue signaling.
*which of course triggered counter comments of the “Zionist controlled media” kind. You know the routine in comment threads on youtube and elsewhere as well as I do.
I saw the interview. Jayapal condemned Hamas incouding the rapes and said one war crime doesn’t justify another. Bash accused her of distraction and then said Israeli soldiers don’t commit mass rapes. Probably true. Actually recently released Palestinian prisoners say they were threatened with rape but don’t say they were. . The boys were beaten.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67581915
So the only person engaged in comparison and denial in that interview was Dana Bash.
I saw the interview. Jayapal condemned Hamas incouding the rapes and said one war crime doesn’t justify another. Bash accused her of distraction and then said Israeli soldiers don’t commit mass rapes. Probably true. Actually recently released Palestinian prisoners say they were threatened with rape but don’t say they were. . The boys were beaten.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67581915
So the only person engaged in comparison and denial in that interview was Dana Bash.
CNN summary of the Jayapal interview and followup
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/pramila-jayapal-statement/index.html
CNN summary of the Jayapal interview and followup
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/pramila-jayapal-statement/index.html
I didn’t see it, but if it went down as Donald suggests, and I believe him, then I have no argument with Jayapal.
wonkie, I know from previous comments that you have no problem with generalising the worst motives about people whose policies you hate (in past cases that was Republicans), so this,
I don’t know what percentage supports the mass murder going on now. I assume that it is not everyone, perhaps not even a majority.
even the appalling last phrase, does not entirely surprise me. But I have some weeks ago corrected myself when I called it indiscriminate mass murder, and changed it to indiscriminate mass killing of civilians, for the obvious reason that murder is the intention to kill the victim. I absolutely do not believe that the civilian deaths are intentional, so in your formulation I suppose they would, understandably in the context of other conflicts worldwide, count to most Israeli public opinion as collateral damage. The degree of acceptability is moot, and no doubt differs from group to group.
It is not acceptable to me, however, and I am somewhat in touch with the opinion of various different groups in Israel to whom it is very clearly not “the intention to kill as many Palestinians as possible”, plausible deniability or no. Ironically, the only person I have heard express that wish is a non Jewish American rightwing Republican, but even so I don’t ascribe the wish to other American Republicans.
I didn’t see it, but if it went down as Donald suggests, and I believe him, then I have no argument with Jayapal.
wonkie, I know from previous comments that you have no problem with generalising the worst motives about people whose policies you hate (in past cases that was Republicans), so this,
I don’t know what percentage supports the mass murder going on now. I assume that it is not everyone, perhaps not even a majority.
even the appalling last phrase, does not entirely surprise me. But I have some weeks ago corrected myself when I called it indiscriminate mass murder, and changed it to indiscriminate mass killing of civilians, for the obvious reason that murder is the intention to kill the victim. I absolutely do not believe that the civilian deaths are intentional, so in your formulation I suppose they would, understandably in the context of other conflicts worldwide, count to most Israeli public opinion as collateral damage. The degree of acceptability is moot, and no doubt differs from group to group.
It is not acceptable to me, however, and I am somewhat in touch with the opinion of various different groups in Israel to whom it is very clearly not “the intention to kill as many Palestinians as possible”, plausible deniability or no. Ironically, the only person I have heard express that wish is a non Jewish American rightwing Republican, but even so I don’t ascribe the wish to other American Republicans.
I absolutely do not believe that the civilian deaths are intentional
There is definitely a segment of the Israeli population which would cheerfully countenance mass murder of Palestinians. If some of them were in the IDF, they might well have done so. This will be one of the times that the rest of Israel can be thankful that those folks have mostly managed to get themselves exempted from the draft. (Otherwise, they are resented for taking all the benefits of the country, while refusing to bear any of the burden.)
I absolutely do not believe that the civilian deaths are intentional
There is definitely a segment of the Israeli population which would cheerfully countenance mass murder of Palestinians. If some of them were in the IDF, they might well have done so. This will be one of the times that the rest of Israel can be thankful that those folks have mostly managed to get themselves exempted from the draft. (Otherwise, they are resented for taking all the benefits of the country, while refusing to bear any of the burden.)
I don’t think they are literally trying to kill as many as possible, but I don’t think Assad was trying that in Syria. Pol Pot and Hitler and the Hutus in Rwanda had that kind of ambition.
I think they are deliberately killing civilians, and deliberately making much of Gaza uninhabitable and given the chance, they would expel most Gazans out of Gaza.
Both sides ( Hamas and the Israeli government) are imo unequivocally evil. Not Hitler level, but Assad level. Neither side can be trusted.
I don’t think they are literally trying to kill as many as possible, but I don’t think Assad was trying that in Syria. Pol Pot and Hitler and the Hutus in Rwanda had that kind of ambition.
I think they are deliberately killing civilians, and deliberately making much of Gaza uninhabitable and given the chance, they would expel most Gazans out of Gaza.
Both sides ( Hamas and the Israeli government) are imo unequivocally evil. Not Hitler level, but Assad level. Neither side can be trusted.
I want a ceasefire, but agree that it is impossible to imagine a long term solution with the Hamas leaders that planned Oct 7. They pretended to be pragmatists for years, and this planning has been going on for I don’t know how long, but fairly long. Makes it impossible to trust them.
And the Israeli right is pretty much all about the one state solution, though not democratic, and would gladly drive out all the Palestinians if they can. And from the 972 article I’ve linked, some of the bombing , the “power targets” are aimed at civilians in order to shock them and put pressure on Hamas. But one doesn’t need the article. Just the sheer level of destruction shows that.
And there is endless anecdotal evidence about murderous intent, but I have to go.
I want a ceasefire, but agree that it is impossible to imagine a long term solution with the Hamas leaders that planned Oct 7. They pretended to be pragmatists for years, and this planning has been going on for I don’t know how long, but fairly long. Makes it impossible to trust them.
And the Israeli right is pretty much all about the one state solution, though not democratic, and would gladly drive out all the Palestinians if they can. And from the 972 article I’ve linked, some of the bombing , the “power targets” are aimed at civilians in order to shock them and put pressure on Hamas. But one doesn’t need the article. Just the sheer level of destruction shows that.
And there is endless anecdotal evidence about murderous intent, but I have to go.
As so often, I agree with Donald, in particular most of @09.45. Should also have said, regarding collateral damage, I imagine there is more tolerance for it under circumstances when your people have been raped, tortured, murdered or abducted. There shouldn’t be, but there is. And I believe (although I haven’t seen) that Hamas have said they intend to do it again and again. Which is one of the reasons that I think Israel is doing, in many ways, exactly what Hamas wanted them to do.
As so often, I agree with Donald, in particular most of @09.45. Should also have said, regarding collateral damage, I imagine there is more tolerance for it under circumstances when your people have been raped, tortured, murdered or abducted. There shouldn’t be, but there is. And I believe (although I haven’t seen) that Hamas have said they intend to do it again and again. Which is one of the reasons that I think Israel is doing, in many ways, exactly what Hamas wanted them to do.
(I posted a comment earlier about the Jayapal interview which hasn’t appeared.)
I think the interview was fair. There are several minutes about Jayapal’s views on Gaza, then at 6:45 the interviewer asks her a question about Hamas sexual violence, asking why it hasn’t been condemned by progressives. Jayapal disagrees with the premise, and says she condemns it absolutely, but…and pivots back to Israel’s wrongful actions.
That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.
(I posted a comment earlier about the Jayapal interview which hasn’t appeared.)
I think the interview was fair. There are several minutes about Jayapal’s views on Gaza, then at 6:45 the interviewer asks her a question about Hamas sexual violence, asking why it hasn’t been condemned by progressives. Jayapal disagrees with the premise, and says she condemns it absolutely, but…and pivots back to Israel’s wrongful actions.
That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.
Pro Bono: there’s no earlier comment in either Spam or “Unpublished.” Dunno what happened…..
Pro Bono: there’s no earlier comment in either Spam or “Unpublished.” Dunno what happened…..
I don’t even bother discussing I-P with anyone. I find it frustratingly stupid that so many people can’t seem to accept that you can be utterly opposed to Hamas while also respecting the human rights of Palestinians or that you can support Israel’s right to defend itself while being opposed to it committing war crimes while doing so. Too much dumb black-and-white, good-versus-evil oversimplification, often not even in good faith. Yet another political football.
I can at least read the comments here without pulling out what little hair I have left. It’s a sanctuary of sanity. I don’t comment much only because I don’t have anything to add beyond what others have already written.
I don’t even bother discussing I-P with anyone. I find it frustratingly stupid that so many people can’t seem to accept that you can be utterly opposed to Hamas while also respecting the human rights of Palestinians or that you can support Israel’s right to defend itself while being opposed to it committing war crimes while doing so. Too much dumb black-and-white, good-versus-evil oversimplification, often not even in good faith. Yet another political football.
I can at least read the comments here without pulling out what little hair I have left. It’s a sanctuary of sanity. I don’t comment much only because I don’t have anything to add beyond what others have already written.
“That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.”
In the US government, specifically Congress, given that we are supplying the bombs that are killing thousands of children and it is a small minority that opposes this, there is a reason for inserting a statement that both sides are committing war crimes.
Hamas is guilty of crimes against humanity. Full stop. So is Israel. Full stop. One doesn’t justify the other. Jayapal was trying to make that point.
This was a typical political interview on American TV, so nothing is stated clearly and everything is frustrating and vague and about appearances, so it becomes a political scandal. But nobody in Congress says we should be arming Hamas or supporting Hamas and if there is anyone in Congress who denies Hamas atrocities I am not aware of it. Most of them deny Israel is doing anything wrong.
On “my side”, there are idiots who either defend Hamas or make antisemitic statements in protests or do other things that are moronic or worse, but for once I am glad that my side doesn’t have the kinds of freaking nutcases in power that are so common on the other side. Usually I prefer balance, but not here. Fine with me if all the actual apologists for war crimes who are in Congress are on the other side.
“That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.”
In the US government, specifically Congress, given that we are supplying the bombs that are killing thousands of children and it is a small minority that opposes this, there is a reason for inserting a statement that both sides are committing war crimes.
Hamas is guilty of crimes against humanity. Full stop. So is Israel. Full stop. One doesn’t justify the other. Jayapal was trying to make that point.
This was a typical political interview on American TV, so nothing is stated clearly and everything is frustrating and vague and about appearances, so it becomes a political scandal. But nobody in Congress says we should be arming Hamas or supporting Hamas and if there is anyone in Congress who denies Hamas atrocities I am not aware of it. Most of them deny Israel is doing anything wrong.
On “my side”, there are idiots who either defend Hamas or make antisemitic statements in protests or do other things that are moronic or worse, but for once I am glad that my side doesn’t have the kinds of freaking nutcases in power that are so common on the other side. Usually I prefer balance, but not here. Fine with me if all the actual apologists for war crimes who are in Congress are on the other side.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-touts-civilian-warning-system-but-for-gazans-nowhere-is-safe/ar-AA1l5j3D?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d0db52c09c5e42e4996bcf2c88e8b4cd&ei=15
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-touts-civilian-warning-system-but-for-gazans-nowhere-is-safe/ar-AA1l5j3D?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d0db52c09c5e42e4996bcf2c88e8b4cd&ei=15
I find it frustratingly stupid that so many people can’t seem to accept that you can be utterly opposed to Hamas while also respecting the human rights of Palestinians or that you can support Israel’s right to defend itself while being opposed to it committing war crimes while doing so.
And this is just one of the reasons, hsh, why you belong in this “sanctuary of sanity”.
I find it frustratingly stupid that so many people can’t seem to accept that you can be utterly opposed to Hamas while also respecting the human rights of Palestinians or that you can support Israel’s right to defend itself while being opposed to it committing war crimes while doing so.
And this is just one of the reasons, hsh, why you belong in this “sanctuary of sanity”.
I think it is important to remember that Bash intentionally put that question to Jayapal in a way that was intended to erode Democratic support no matter what answer was given.
Add a “but…” gets reframed as a pivot to shifting Israel in order to erode as many Jewish votes as possible for the Democrats.
Not adding a “but…” will leave Palestinian-Americans feeling left unseen and exposed, which would be useful for eroding as many Palestinian-Amreican votes as possible for the Democrats.
Same goes for the congressional hearing about rising anti-semitism on college campuses. Yes, jewish students are feeling vulnerable and exposed because of widespread disapproval of the IDF operations in Gaza. Understandably so. I can’t think of many Muslim students who are feeling empowered or valued on their campuses in this moment, either.
There are options besides polarization or empty both-siderism, but they require a media that is not working to propagandize and polarize, rather than waving the bloody shirt.
I think it is important to remember that Bash intentionally put that question to Jayapal in a way that was intended to erode Democratic support no matter what answer was given.
Add a “but…” gets reframed as a pivot to shifting Israel in order to erode as many Jewish votes as possible for the Democrats.
Not adding a “but…” will leave Palestinian-Americans feeling left unseen and exposed, which would be useful for eroding as many Palestinian-Amreican votes as possible for the Democrats.
Same goes for the congressional hearing about rising anti-semitism on college campuses. Yes, jewish students are feeling vulnerable and exposed because of widespread disapproval of the IDF operations in Gaza. Understandably so. I can’t think of many Muslim students who are feeling empowered or valued on their campuses in this moment, either.
There are options besides polarization or empty both-siderism, but they require a media that is not working to propagandize and polarize, rather than waving the bloody shirt.
if you’re condemning absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”. As the philosopher Paul Reubens put it, “everybody’s got a big but”.
a typical political interview. I’m a bit surprised by the total lack of reference to the concepts of diplomacy and foreign relations. It’s deliberately vague and about appearances. People appalled by Israel throwing Gaza in a woodchipper seem the think the US can force Israel to stop, but refuses out of cowardice or complicity. Thing is, they can’t force Israel to stop, and the US and Israel know it. The US demands, Israel ignores, and the US has that much less leverage to get another cease fire or whatever agreed to, and the slaughter continues. Netanyahu’s government has put all their chips on riding a wave of anger and blood to keep their government together and Bibi out of jail. Losing some bombs and ammo isn’t going to change that.
if you’re condemning absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”. As the philosopher Paul Reubens put it, “everybody’s got a big but”.
a typical political interview. I’m a bit surprised by the total lack of reference to the concepts of diplomacy and foreign relations. It’s deliberately vague and about appearances. People appalled by Israel throwing Gaza in a woodchipper seem the think the US can force Israel to stop, but refuses out of cowardice or complicity. Thing is, they can’t force Israel to stop, and the US and Israel know it. The US demands, Israel ignores, and the US has that much less leverage to get another cease fire or whatever agreed to, and the slaughter continues. Netanyahu’s government has put all their chips on riding a wave of anger and blood to keep their government together and Bibi out of jail. Losing some bombs and ammo isn’t going to change that.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-s-2-000-pound-spice-bombs-are-highly-accurate-but-could-be-overkill-in-gaza/ar-AA1l70Cp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=195e5b77bae64ccda749017cdf0bebc5&ei=18
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-using-big-bombs-weighing-1-000-to-2-000-pounds-gaza-report-2023-11
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-s-2-000-pound-spice-bombs-are-highly-accurate-but-could-be-overkill-in-gaza/ar-AA1l70Cp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=195e5b77bae64ccda749017cdf0bebc5&ei=18
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-using-big-bombs-weighing-1-000-to-2-000-pounds-gaza-report-2023-11
Netanyahu’s government has put all their chips on riding a wave of anger and blood to keep their government together and Bibi out of jail. Losing some bombs and ammo isn’t going to change that.
Losing some bombs and ammo will not, in itself, have an impact. But for the US to announce that it was cutting off military aid? The psychological impact in Israel would, I think, be substantial.
What the impact would be on US politics is a different matter. So not likely to happen any time soon.
Netanyahu’s government has put all their chips on riding a wave of anger and blood to keep their government together and Bibi out of jail. Losing some bombs and ammo isn’t going to change that.
Losing some bombs and ammo will not, in itself, have an impact. But for the US to announce that it was cutting off military aid? The psychological impact in Israel would, I think, be substantial.
What the impact would be on US politics is a different matter. So not likely to happen any time soon.
Donald: “That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.”
Politicians would do well to say “and” in place of “but”, sometimes.
Like hairshirt, I feel like others have already said everything I can think of to say, on most topics.
–TP
Donald: “That “but” was poor. If you’re condemning something absolutely, there’s no need for a “but”.”
Politicians would do well to say “and” in place of “but”, sometimes.
Like hairshirt, I feel like others have already said everything I can think of to say, on most topics.
–TP
Anonymous Israeli officials think the death toll in Gaza is about 15,000, with about 2/3 being civilians and that the Hamas figures are roughly accurate.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/#:~:text=Reports%20citing%20anonymous%20Israeli%20officials,been%20killed%20than%20Hamas%20operatives.
Anonymous Israeli officials think the death toll in Gaza is about 15,000, with about 2/3 being civilians and that the Hamas figures are roughly accurate.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/#:~:text=Reports%20citing%20anonymous%20Israeli%20officials,been%20killed%20than%20Hamas%20operatives.
Well, it looks like no one is getting any money right now since the GOP is more interested in televised temper tantrums. Of course they lie about Biden ignoring the Southern border (there are large concessions in the bill already).
I assume that some of them are happy that they can block Ukraine aid (90% of which is spent on US weaponry btw) with a new excuse that does not point to their affinity to Ras Putin*.
*OK a tired cliche pun**. And the historical Grigorij Jefimovich was an actual pacifist and that was an important factor for his murderers and the time they struck.
**and Ras as a title is not Russian but semitic.
Well, it looks like no one is getting any money right now since the GOP is more interested in televised temper tantrums. Of course they lie about Biden ignoring the Southern border (there are large concessions in the bill already).
I assume that some of them are happy that they can block Ukraine aid (90% of which is spent on US weaponry btw) with a new excuse that does not point to their affinity to Ras Putin*.
*OK a tired cliche pun**. And the historical Grigorij Jefimovich was an actual pacifist and that was an important factor for his murderers and the time they struck.
**and Ras as a title is not Russian but semitic.
Oh, btw, I don’t mean to bow to the authority of Israeli estimates, but one does see people on Twitter like Charles’s cite still arguing that the number of civilian deaths is greatly exaggerated. It’s a bit harder to do when a mainstream Israeli paper reports that anonymous Israeli officials think the numbers are roughly accurate.
Oh, btw, I don’t mean to bow to the authority of Israeli estimates, but one does see people on Twitter like Charles’s cite still arguing that the number of civilian deaths is greatly exaggerated. It’s a bit harder to do when a mainstream Israeli paper reports that anonymous Israeli officials think the numbers are roughly accurate.
But, but but liberal Jews are the worst antisemites that one can find anywhere. And Jewish mainstream media is the leader of the mob. Actual Nazis (in particular when properly religious) are far more amenable as far as Israel is concerned. At least that is what I hear on a daily basis from conservatives and Israeli officials.
But, but but liberal Jews are the worst antisemites that one can find anywhere. And Jewish mainstream media is the leader of the mob. Actual Nazis (in particular when properly religious) are far more amenable as far as Israel is concerned. At least that is what I hear on a daily basis from conservatives and Israeli officials.
But, but but liberal Jews are the worst antisemites that one can find anywhere.
It hasn’t happened for years, possibly because of the company I mostly choose to keep, but the accusation of being “a self-hating Jew” anytime I criticised Israel was a regular feature of my life when my parents’ friends were still alive (I was infuriated, but kept reminding myself that they had lived through the Holocaust). Now, as far as I can tell, it is mainly used on the US right.
But, but but liberal Jews are the worst antisemites that one can find anywhere.
It hasn’t happened for years, possibly because of the company I mostly choose to keep, but the accusation of being “a self-hating Jew” anytime I criticised Israel was a regular feature of my life when my parents’ friends were still alive (I was infuriated, but kept reminding myself that they had lived through the Holocaust). Now, as far as I can tell, it is mainly used on the US right.
Jayapal had the first six minutes of the interview to say what she wanted about Gaza. It was only after that that she was invited to condemn rape. I don’t agree that there was any sort of trap involved.
Jayapal had the first six minutes of the interview to say what she wanted about Gaza. It was only after that that she was invited to condemn rape. I don’t agree that there was any sort of trap involved.
It isn’t a matter of trapping. It’s the obnoxious assumption that someone who recognizes the historic and current crimes against the Palestinians is somehow obligated to speak up (over and over and over ) against Hamas, while equivalent treatment isn’t given to Congresspeople who defend Israel For example: “Are you outraged by people being incarcerated indefinitely without charges? Are you outraged by the abuse of incarcerated children? Are you outraged about the illegal settlements? Why haven’t you spoken up about the north part of Gaza being bombed so heavily that it is no longer inhabitable? Why haven’t you spoken up with enough outrage over the clearly bigoted statements made by Zionist leaders?” Etc.
Until I see reporters badgering Congresspeople with questions like that, I see the question directed at Jayapal as…based on a false assumption.
It isn’t a matter of trapping. It’s the obnoxious assumption that someone who recognizes the historic and current crimes against the Palestinians is somehow obligated to speak up (over and over and over ) against Hamas, while equivalent treatment isn’t given to Congresspeople who defend Israel For example: “Are you outraged by people being incarcerated indefinitely without charges? Are you outraged by the abuse of incarcerated children? Are you outraged about the illegal settlements? Why haven’t you spoken up about the north part of Gaza being bombed so heavily that it is no longer inhabitable? Why haven’t you spoken up with enough outrage over the clearly bigoted statements made by Zionist leaders?” Etc.
Until I see reporters badgering Congresspeople with questions like that, I see the question directed at Jayapal as…based on a false assumption.
Yes to wonkie’s 1:14. And even if I were to agree that Jayapal’s response could have been managed a bit better, I don’t see how her response as it stands makes the situation in Israel and Gaza any better or worse. The metacommentary about her response is itself a deflection and a distraction. We talk about it because we don’t feel like we have any agency over the ongoing atrocities being perpetrated by the dehumanizers.
I just found this article explaining Mbembe’s concept of “necropolitics” and was struck by how thoroughly the concept elucidates the situation in the Palestinian Territories:
Necropolitics entails the “subjugation of life to the power of death”. In “our contemporary world” — following Mbembe — various types of “weapons are deployed in the interest of maximum destruction of persons and the creation of death-worlds, new and unique forms of social existence in which vast populations are subjugated to conditions of life conferring upon them the status of living-dead”.
Gaza very much seems like the sort of death-world that Mbembe discusses, and Hamas’ strategy very much lives within the logic of these death-worlds and the ecology of the global media landscape. The true weapon wielded by the terrorist is always the media. The people they harm and kill are like shrapnel that they use the media to spray into the rest of the populace.
Martyrs only ever exist within the logic of a death-world, real or imagined.
Yes to wonkie’s 1:14. And even if I were to agree that Jayapal’s response could have been managed a bit better, I don’t see how her response as it stands makes the situation in Israel and Gaza any better or worse. The metacommentary about her response is itself a deflection and a distraction. We talk about it because we don’t feel like we have any agency over the ongoing atrocities being perpetrated by the dehumanizers.
I just found this article explaining Mbembe’s concept of “necropolitics” and was struck by how thoroughly the concept elucidates the situation in the Palestinian Territories:
Necropolitics entails the “subjugation of life to the power of death”. In “our contemporary world” — following Mbembe — various types of “weapons are deployed in the interest of maximum destruction of persons and the creation of death-worlds, new and unique forms of social existence in which vast populations are subjugated to conditions of life conferring upon them the status of living-dead”.
Gaza very much seems like the sort of death-world that Mbembe discusses, and Hamas’ strategy very much lives within the logic of these death-worlds and the ecology of the global media landscape. The true weapon wielded by the terrorist is always the media. The people they harm and kill are like shrapnel that they use the media to spray into the rest of the populace.
Martyrs only ever exist within the logic of a death-world, real or imagined.
@nous: not a historian, so this is just half-assed. But I’m not sure “our contemporary world” is much different from the rest of human history in this respect. The main difference seems to me to be that “terrorists” (e.g. Putin) now have a global media instead of word of mouth at their disposal. And maybe that in this era there have actually been large populations of ordinary people who have been able to live for short (in the context of human history) periods in conditions of life that made it seem like they were NOT in danger of becoming the living dead.
(Thinking of the building of the Mongol Empire, or the Hundred Years War, but I’m sure the examples are endless. In face, see here.)
@nous: not a historian, so this is just half-assed. But I’m not sure “our contemporary world” is much different from the rest of human history in this respect. The main difference seems to me to be that “terrorists” (e.g. Putin) now have a global media instead of word of mouth at their disposal. And maybe that in this era there have actually been large populations of ordinary people who have been able to live for short (in the context of human history) periods in conditions of life that made it seem like they were NOT in danger of becoming the living dead.
(Thinking of the building of the Mongol Empire, or the Hundred Years War, but I’m sure the examples are endless. In face, see here.)
In face, see here.
That’s a link-following rabbit hole for me. I wish I could take it all in “Matrix”-style. Plug a gizmo into the back of my head and download it. That or kung fu? Tough choice.
In face, see here.
That’s a link-following rabbit hole for me. I wish I could take it all in “Matrix”-style. Plug a gizmo into the back of my head and download it. That or kung fu? Tough choice.
Even the typo? 😉
(She faceplants.) (And wishes her copy editor hadn’t absconded.)
Even the typo? 😉
(She faceplants.) (And wishes her copy editor hadn’t absconded.)
There are such things as actual Hamas apologists. I read them sometimes. They use a lot of euphemisms and don’t state plainly what they defend. They defend Hamas as a “resistance” group and call Oct 7 a military action or similar type language. The atrocities are not openly named.
Jayapal is not an Hamas apologist. She isn’t a supporter of terrorism or kidnapping grandmothers or young children or a defender of rape. At worst she committed a gaffe and made her position clear the next day, though it was clear in the interview.
Not on the other hand the President continues to supply Israel with 2000 lb bombs and while they say they pressure Israel to take more care regarding civilians, Israel keeps bombing. And Republicans are outright Israeli apologists. DC is clogged with apologists for Israel’s actions in both parties. I can’t think of a single US politician who is a Hamas apologist. I am glad of that. I wish there were no Israel apologists, just people who have a clear-eyed view of atrocities no matter who commits them. People could debate what our stance should be in an imperfect world (with our own actions part of the problem), but we are nowhere near basic honesty, let alone serious discussion of policy options.
HRW just put out a report saying that Israel deliberately targeted journalists in Lebanon back in October. (Not exactly a surprise.) And Israel is currently arresting Palestinian men and boys at random in northern Gaza to see if any are Hamas. Twitter account link if you can read it.
https://twitter.com/OmarBaddar/status/1732842215414669543
There are such things as actual Hamas apologists. I read them sometimes. They use a lot of euphemisms and don’t state plainly what they defend. They defend Hamas as a “resistance” group and call Oct 7 a military action or similar type language. The atrocities are not openly named.
Jayapal is not an Hamas apologist. She isn’t a supporter of terrorism or kidnapping grandmothers or young children or a defender of rape. At worst she committed a gaffe and made her position clear the next day, though it was clear in the interview.
Not on the other hand the President continues to supply Israel with 2000 lb bombs and while they say they pressure Israel to take more care regarding civilians, Israel keeps bombing. And Republicans are outright Israeli apologists. DC is clogged with apologists for Israel’s actions in both parties. I can’t think of a single US politician who is a Hamas apologist. I am glad of that. I wish there were no Israel apologists, just people who have a clear-eyed view of atrocities no matter who commits them. People could debate what our stance should be in an imperfect world (with our own actions part of the problem), but we are nowhere near basic honesty, let alone serious discussion of policy options.
HRW just put out a report saying that Israel deliberately targeted journalists in Lebanon back in October. (Not exactly a surprise.) And Israel is currently arresting Palestinian men and boys at random in northern Gaza to see if any are Hamas. Twitter account link if you can read it.
https://twitter.com/OmarBaddar/status/1732842215414669543
The conflicts listed on the “List of Conflicts by Duration” Wikipedia page can be grouped into several categories based on their nature and context. While the specific categories may not be explicitly mentioned on the page, we can identify common classifications for these conflicts. Here are some categories in which the conflicts can be grouped:
1. Wars: This category includes conflicts between nations or states involving organized armed forces. Examples include World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Gulf War.
2. Rebellions and Revolutions: This category comprises conflicts where a group or population rises against an established power or government. Examples include the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and the Russian Revolution.
3. Civil Wars: This category encompasses conflicts within a single country or region, typically involving factions or groups vying for control. Examples include the American Civil War, the Spanish Civil War, and the Syrian Civil War.
4. Colonial Conflicts: This category includes conflicts that arose during colonialism, involving European powers and indigenous populations. Examples include the Algerian War of Independence, the Indian Rebellion of 1857, and the Boxer Rebellion.
5. Independence Movements: This category includes conflicts where regions or territories sought independence from ruling powers. Examples include the Indian Independence Movement, the Irish War of Independence, and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
6. Border Disputes and Territorial Conflicts: This category includes conflicts arising from disputes over boundaries or territorial claims between nations. Examples include the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the India-Pakistan conflicts, and the Falklands War.
7. Insurgencies and Guerrilla Warfare: This category includes conflicts characterized by irregular warfare tactics, typically waged by non-state actors against established powers. Examples include the Vietnam War, the Afghan War, and the Colombian conflict.
8. Ethnic and Religious Conflicts: This category includes conflicts driven by ethnic or religious tensions, often resulting in violence and displacement. Examples include the Rwandan Genocide, the Yugoslav Wars, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
These categories provide a general framework for grouping the conflicts on the page. However, it’s worth noting that some conflicts may overlap or fall into multiple categories, and the classification of conflicts can sometimes be subjective depending on different perspectives and interpretations.
—Ask AI Chat
My single largest carbon footprint may be the queries I make to LLMs.
The conflicts listed on the “List of Conflicts by Duration” Wikipedia page can be grouped into several categories based on their nature and context. While the specific categories may not be explicitly mentioned on the page, we can identify common classifications for these conflicts. Here are some categories in which the conflicts can be grouped:
1. Wars: This category includes conflicts between nations or states involving organized armed forces. Examples include World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Gulf War.
2. Rebellions and Revolutions: This category comprises conflicts where a group or population rises against an established power or government. Examples include the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and the Russian Revolution.
3. Civil Wars: This category encompasses conflicts within a single country or region, typically involving factions or groups vying for control. Examples include the American Civil War, the Spanish Civil War, and the Syrian Civil War.
4. Colonial Conflicts: This category includes conflicts that arose during colonialism, involving European powers and indigenous populations. Examples include the Algerian War of Independence, the Indian Rebellion of 1857, and the Boxer Rebellion.
5. Independence Movements: This category includes conflicts where regions or territories sought independence from ruling powers. Examples include the Indian Independence Movement, the Irish War of Independence, and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
6. Border Disputes and Territorial Conflicts: This category includes conflicts arising from disputes over boundaries or territorial claims between nations. Examples include the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the India-Pakistan conflicts, and the Falklands War.
7. Insurgencies and Guerrilla Warfare: This category includes conflicts characterized by irregular warfare tactics, typically waged by non-state actors against established powers. Examples include the Vietnam War, the Afghan War, and the Colombian conflict.
8. Ethnic and Religious Conflicts: This category includes conflicts driven by ethnic or religious tensions, often resulting in violence and displacement. Examples include the Rwandan Genocide, the Yugoslav Wars, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
These categories provide a general framework for grouping the conflicts on the page. However, it’s worth noting that some conflicts may overlap or fall into multiple categories, and the classification of conflicts can sometimes be subjective depending on different perspectives and interpretations.
—Ask AI Chat
My single largest carbon footprint may be the queries I make to LLMs.
I wish there were… just people who have a clear-eyed view of atrocities no matter who commits them.
Amen.
I wish there were… just people who have a clear-eyed view of atrocities no matter who commits them.
Amen.
…I don’t see how her response as it stands makes the situation in Israel and Gaza any better or worse. The metacommentary about her response is itself a deflection and a distraction. We talk about it because we don’t feel like we have any agency over the ongoing atrocities being perpetrated by the dehumanizers.
Yes. I just want politicians I agree with to make a good job of presenting their case.
…I don’t see how her response as it stands makes the situation in Israel and Gaza any better or worse. The metacommentary about her response is itself a deflection and a distraction. We talk about it because we don’t feel like we have any agency over the ongoing atrocities being perpetrated by the dehumanizers.
Yes. I just want politicians I agree with to make a good job of presenting their case.
@JanieM – Mbembe is working under Foucault’s premise that the modern state exerts a different sort of bureaucratic control over the lives of its subjects than did previous forms of governance. His turning point for this lies in the Napoleonic reforms, and takes the Treaty of Westphalia as another of those big inflection points, before which the nation state did not exist as the de facto political paradigm for international recognition.
There may be some arguments for earlier versions of this in the Chinese bureaucratic state (I’m guessing…haven’t looked), but those would have been outside of Foucault’s research scope. He was mostly concerned with French history and the French colonial regime.
Which is to say that much of history is a fraught hellscape for people, but the apparatus of a death-world as Mbembe conceived of it requires both a post-Westphalian political order and a global media ecology that moves at the speed of a telegraph rather than a slow boat.
Teasing out the shape of this formulation would take some dedicated reading – at least until someone at Teen Vogue takes it upon themself to write an op ed explainer.
@JanieM – Mbembe is working under Foucault’s premise that the modern state exerts a different sort of bureaucratic control over the lives of its subjects than did previous forms of governance. His turning point for this lies in the Napoleonic reforms, and takes the Treaty of Westphalia as another of those big inflection points, before which the nation state did not exist as the de facto political paradigm for international recognition.
There may be some arguments for earlier versions of this in the Chinese bureaucratic state (I’m guessing…haven’t looked), but those would have been outside of Foucault’s research scope. He was mostly concerned with French history and the French colonial regime.
Which is to say that much of history is a fraught hellscape for people, but the apparatus of a death-world as Mbembe conceived of it requires both a post-Westphalian political order and a global media ecology that moves at the speed of a telegraph rather than a slow boat.
Teasing out the shape of this formulation would take some dedicated reading – at least until someone at Teen Vogue takes it upon themself to write an op ed explainer.
@nous — the Teen Vogue comment made me laugh out loud.
Foucault is beyond the level of intellectual challenge that I’m up for trying to meet these days (no “intellectual heft,” I’ve been told 😉 ) — but it sounds like Mbembe is saying that we (humans as a whole) are facing a new kind of fraught hellscape to replace the old kind(s). I can’t argue with the idea, if this is part of it, that “we” can face it and deal with it more effectively the better we understand it. So thanks for the reference — and the interim explainer while we wait for Teen Vogue.
@nous — the Teen Vogue comment made me laugh out loud.
Foucault is beyond the level of intellectual challenge that I’m up for trying to meet these days (no “intellectual heft,” I’ve been told 😉 ) — but it sounds like Mbembe is saying that we (humans as a whole) are facing a new kind of fraught hellscape to replace the old kind(s). I can’t argue with the idea, if this is part of it, that “we” can face it and deal with it more effectively the better we understand it. So thanks for the reference — and the interim explainer while we wait for Teen Vogue.
Teen Vogue v Ask A1 Chat? Hard to choose…
I couldn’t help thinking about the sometime academic contempt (or at least condescension) towards “civilians” as I watched the ghastly Stefanik perform for the cameras in her interrogation of the university heads about the manufactured “genocide of the jews” controversy. The Penn person, in particular, had a most off-putting smirk on her face during her answers, and yet I still took no pleasure in seeing her forced apology today. You would not think that people like that would be so absolutely stumped by having to a) make the point that calls for intifada do not, in general, equal calls for genocide of the jews, b) that bullying and harassment usually have to have a specific object, or victim, and that therefore c) an offense of hate speech would be more useful under those hypothetical circumstances. Although they would (and should) have had to deal with the issue of how their answers, even if about a hypothetical situation, made sense in the era of “microaggession tracking tools”. Talk about scoring an own-goal when in the front line of the culture wars.
Teen Vogue v Ask A1 Chat? Hard to choose…
I couldn’t help thinking about the sometime academic contempt (or at least condescension) towards “civilians” as I watched the ghastly Stefanik perform for the cameras in her interrogation of the university heads about the manufactured “genocide of the jews” controversy. The Penn person, in particular, had a most off-putting smirk on her face during her answers, and yet I still took no pleasure in seeing her forced apology today. You would not think that people like that would be so absolutely stumped by having to a) make the point that calls for intifada do not, in general, equal calls for genocide of the jews, b) that bullying and harassment usually have to have a specific object, or victim, and that therefore c) an offense of hate speech would be more useful under those hypothetical circumstances. Although they would (and should) have had to deal with the issue of how their answers, even if about a hypothetical situation, made sense in the era of “microaggession tracking tools”. Talk about scoring an own-goal when in the front line of the culture wars.
Teen Vogue v Ask A1 Chat? Hard to choose…
It shouldn’t be. From Wikipedia:
Teen Vogue v Ask A1 Chat? Hard to choose…
It shouldn’t be. From Wikipedia:
From a commenter at Crooked Timber in response to a post that was part of a series on Silicon Valley. I bookmarked the comment because it was the most concise explainer I’ve run across about how AI works, in relation to how overhyped and misunderstood it is in the current phase of its existence:
From a commenter at Crooked Timber in response to a post that was part of a series on Silicon Valley. I bookmarked the comment because it was the most concise explainer I’ve run across about how AI works, in relation to how overhyped and misunderstood it is in the current phase of its existence:
And, as for Virginia Foxx asking each of them whether they believed that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state, words fail. What is this, McCarthyism?
And, as for Virginia Foxx asking each of them whether they believed that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state, words fail. What is this, McCarthyism?
Ah yes, I remember the articles about that Teen Vogue piece. It just goes to show, one shouldn’t assume – although I have no idea if that was a one-off, I haven’t heard anything about it since.
Ah yes, I remember the articles about that Teen Vogue piece. It just goes to show, one shouldn’t assume – although I have no idea if that was a one-off, I haven’t heard anything about it since.
I just read the Teen Vogue explainer for “necropolitics” today. I haven’t gone looking to see if they have any for Foucault.
Academics should be doing more of this sort of thing.
I just read the Teen Vogue explainer for “necropolitics” today. I haven’t gone looking to see if they have any for Foucault.
Academics should be doing more of this sort of thing.
I have a vague recollection of reading a number of good articles in (non-teen) Vogue when my wife subscribed a decade or so ago. I’m pretty sure she pointed them out to me, otherwise I would never have thought to read anything from Vogue – at first, anyway.
I have a vague recollection of reading a number of good articles in (non-teen) Vogue when my wife subscribed a decade or so ago. I’m pretty sure she pointed them out to me, otherwise I would never have thought to read anything from Vogue – at first, anyway.
“I haven’t gone looking to see if they have any [explainer] for Foucault.”
The only explainer anyone needs for Foucault is that he thought the world revolved around him.
“I haven’t gone looking to see if they have any [explainer] for Foucault.”
The only explainer anyone needs for Foucault is that he thought the world revolved around him.
The only explainer anyone needs for Foucault is that he thought the world revolved around him.
Nice one. Well done.
The other Foucault.
The only explainer anyone needs for Foucault is that he thought the world revolved around him.
Nice one. Well done.
The other Foucault.
Never understood the first Foucalt’s pendulum except at the poles. I can take a vector component of an angular velocity as good as the next person, but it still doesn’t make intuitive sense to me.
The other guy I know about because his attitude towards morality shocked Chomsky. Also something about panopticons. I have just outlined all I know about, um, whatever branch of continental philosophy he is part of. Deconstructionism?
Never understood the first Foucalt’s pendulum except at the poles. I can take a vector component of an angular velocity as good as the next person, but it still doesn’t make intuitive sense to me.
The other guy I know about because his attitude towards morality shocked Chomsky. Also something about panopticons. I have just outlined all I know about, um, whatever branch of continental philosophy he is part of. Deconstructionism?
Just checked out from the local library the online Very Short Intro to Continental Philosophy and will soon become the world’s leading expert on it, at least in an apartment whose inhabitants are me, my wife and 2 cats.
I like that Very Short intro series.
Just checked out from the local library the online Very Short Intro to Continental Philosophy and will soon become the world’s leading expert on it, at least in an apartment whose inhabitants are me, my wife and 2 cats.
I like that Very Short intro series.
You will never exceed the expertise of the cats.
You will never exceed the expertise of the cats.
“I can take a vector component of an angular velocity as good as the next person, but it still doesn’t make intuitive sense to me.”
There’s your problem. No vector components needed.
Just think of the *plane* of the pendulum staying fixed as the Earth rotates under it.
There’s probably a metaphor for (the more recent) Foucault’s philosophy here, but the blog is too small to contain it.
“I can take a vector component of an angular velocity as good as the next person, but it still doesn’t make intuitive sense to me.”
There’s your problem. No vector components needed.
Just think of the *plane* of the pendulum staying fixed as the Earth rotates under it.
There’s probably a metaphor for (the more recent) Foucault’s philosophy here, but the blog is too small to contain it.
There’s probably a metaphor for (the more recent) Foucault’s philosophy here, but the blog is too small to contain it.
LOL
There’s probably a metaphor for (the more recent) Foucault’s philosophy here, but the blog is too small to contain it.
LOL
“ Just think of the *plane* of the pendulum staying fixed as the Earth rotates under it.”
I will give that a shot, but it is probably at the limit of my ability to visualize things in 3d, so I probable need a sheet of paper and a sphere to play with.
Ral— I am counting on our cats having little interest in Continental philosophy. Same for my wife, probably. Unless Kierkegaard ( sp?) is an influence.
“ Just think of the *plane* of the pendulum staying fixed as the Earth rotates under it.”
I will give that a shot, but it is probably at the limit of my ability to visualize things in 3d, so I probable need a sheet of paper and a sphere to play with.
Ral— I am counting on our cats having little interest in Continental philosophy. Same for my wife, probably. Unless Kierkegaard ( sp?) is an influence.
@Donald – I think Foucault can most properly be described as a post-structuralist. His work is probably best described as being concerned with the history and philosophy of science, and parts of his method of “genealogy” parallel Kuhn’s “paradigms” approach to scientific thought, but Foucault is more grounded in psychology and history.
Foucault gets grouped with Derrida mostly as a post-structuralist, but I don’t think of Foucault as being heavily influenced by Derrida. They are more like intellectual cousins once removed.
@Donald – I think Foucault can most properly be described as a post-structuralist. His work is probably best described as being concerned with the history and philosophy of science, and parts of his method of “genealogy” parallel Kuhn’s “paradigms” approach to scientific thought, but Foucault is more grounded in psychology and history.
Foucault gets grouped with Derrida mostly as a post-structuralist, but I don’t think of Foucault as being heavily influenced by Derrida. They are more like intellectual cousins once removed.
Thanks nous. Maybe I will get some slight sense of the lay of the land after the into book— if not, I can ask one of the cats.
Thanks nous. Maybe I will get some slight sense of the lay of the land after the into book— if not, I can ask one of the cats.
The cats will know, but they’ll probably pretend they didn’t hear the question.
The cats will know, but they’ll probably pretend they didn’t hear the question.
“Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”
Meow.
“Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”
Meow.
I don’t even bother discussing I-P with anyone.
pretty much my point of view as well. mostly because I have no clue, and am hard pressed to imagine what it’s actually like to live in either Israel or Gaza.
it seems like it would be impossible to fight an armed enemy embedded in a civilian population, in a small place that is nigh unto impossible to leave, without killing a lot of civilians. bullets and bombs aren’t that selective.
current events put me in mind of Sherman’s response to the mayor of Atlanta when they objected to his order for civilians to evacuate:
it strikes me that Hamas had to know what the consequences of the October 7 invasion would be – that they would put Israel in the position of having to respond, and that the response would have to involve calamity and death to the civilian population of Gaza. and so, a pox on their heads.
and it strikes me that Israel under Netanyahu has never dealt in good faith with the Palestinians in either Gaza or the West Bank. and so, a pox on his head.
it’s a mess, a tangled mess, with roots going back generations.
anything resembling a solution will require leadership on both sides willing to act in good faith toward their counterparties. which probably means no solution will emerge until the current leadership on both sides is gone.
beyond that, I got nothing.
I don’t even bother discussing I-P with anyone.
pretty much my point of view as well. mostly because I have no clue, and am hard pressed to imagine what it’s actually like to live in either Israel or Gaza.
it seems like it would be impossible to fight an armed enemy embedded in a civilian population, in a small place that is nigh unto impossible to leave, without killing a lot of civilians. bullets and bombs aren’t that selective.
current events put me in mind of Sherman’s response to the mayor of Atlanta when they objected to his order for civilians to evacuate:
it strikes me that Hamas had to know what the consequences of the October 7 invasion would be – that they would put Israel in the position of having to respond, and that the response would have to involve calamity and death to the civilian population of Gaza. and so, a pox on their heads.
and it strikes me that Israel under Netanyahu has never dealt in good faith with the Palestinians in either Gaza or the West Bank. and so, a pox on his head.
it’s a mess, a tangled mess, with roots going back generations.
anything resembling a solution will require leadership on both sides willing to act in good faith toward their counterparties. which probably means no solution will emerge until the current leadership on both sides is gone.
beyond that, I got nothing.
I will give that a shot, but it is probably at the limit of my ability to visualize things in 3d, so I probable need a sheet of paper and a sphere to play with.
Exactly the right approach. Hold the paper up next to a globe (even if you don’t have one, your local library probably does). Turn the globe and voile!
I will give that a shot, but it is probably at the limit of my ability to visualize things in 3d, so I probable need a sheet of paper and a sphere to play with.
Exactly the right approach. Hold the paper up next to a globe (even if you don’t have one, your local library probably does). Turn the globe and voile!
both sides acting in good faith
It’s gonna take a lot more than that. There are heavily entrenched interests on both side who see conflict as a road to achieving their dreams, which are diametrically opposed, which is i threshing. The only thing that could break this stalemate is outside intervention with a clear end state goal, and a goal that does not include eradication of on side is inherently unstable. Something like colonial occupation might work, but just imagine how popular that would be.
both sides acting in good faith
It’s gonna take a lot more than that. There are heavily entrenched interests on both side who see conflict as a road to achieving their dreams, which are diametrically opposed, which is i threshing. The only thing that could break this stalemate is outside intervention with a clear end state goal, and a goal that does not include eradication of on side is inherently unstable. Something like colonial occupation might work, but just imagine how popular that would be.
Hi nous, could you please give me the link for the Mbembe article, thanks.
I always chuckle a bit when I hear the term “continental philosophy” as it seems to suggest that empiricism/analytical philosophy is the default approach to philosophy and the are these weirdos on the continent who like to make stuff up – it’s all a matter of perspective I guess 🙂
Hi nous, could you please give me the link for the Mbembe article, thanks.
I always chuckle a bit when I hear the term “continental philosophy” as it seems to suggest that empiricism/analytical philosophy is the default approach to philosophy and the are these weirdos on the continent who like to make stuff up – it’s all a matter of perspective I guess 🙂
analytic philosophy …
analytic philosophy …
Israel imo isdeliberately killing civilians— the article in 972 gave evidence of this. Hell, they have shot cvilians in cold blood in peacetime. They aren’t killing as many as possible, but that’s rare. The number of Palestinian journalists they have killed is astonishing and I think deliberate. They use 2000 lb bombs in urban areas, which nobody who cared about civilians would do. They have flattened over half of the buildings in northern Gaza. They are behaving in a way people wouldn’t hesitate to condemn in the harshest possible terms if it was Russia or Syria doing the bombing. Human rights groups have said really harsh things about our bombing in Mosul and Raqqa. This is worse. The intensity of the bombing in Yemen doesn’t come close— the death toll there was mainly from the blockade leading to starvation and amounted to nearly 400,000, but this was over years. There are probably closer to 20,000 dead simply from bombing in 2 months, the vast majority civilians. The death toll from disease will probably skyrocket.
The released Palestinians say they were beaten, some quite severely.
Israel deserves no benefit of a doubt , no more than Hamas, and the claim that we are trying to get them to kill fewer civilians means nothing if we still give them bombs. It’s theater.
Israel imo isdeliberately killing civilians— the article in 972 gave evidence of this. Hell, they have shot cvilians in cold blood in peacetime. They aren’t killing as many as possible, but that’s rare. The number of Palestinian journalists they have killed is astonishing and I think deliberate. They use 2000 lb bombs in urban areas, which nobody who cared about civilians would do. They have flattened over half of the buildings in northern Gaza. They are behaving in a way people wouldn’t hesitate to condemn in the harshest possible terms if it was Russia or Syria doing the bombing. Human rights groups have said really harsh things about our bombing in Mosul and Raqqa. This is worse. The intensity of the bombing in Yemen doesn’t come close— the death toll there was mainly from the blockade leading to starvation and amounted to nearly 400,000, but this was over years. There are probably closer to 20,000 dead simply from bombing in 2 months, the vast majority civilians. The death toll from disease will probably skyrocket.
The released Palestinians say they were beaten, some quite severely.
Israel deserves no benefit of a doubt , no more than Hamas, and the claim that we are trying to get them to kill fewer civilians means nothing if we still give them bombs. It’s theater.
novakant – the English translation of Mbembe’s original article can be found here: https://muse.jhu.edu/article/39984
I’m hoping it is not paywalled. Hard to tell; my apartment’s internet access is through the university’s network. Let me know if it is and I’ll see if I can scare it up from another source.
novakant – the English translation of Mbembe’s original article can be found here: https://muse.jhu.edu/article/39984
I’m hoping it is not paywalled. Hard to tell; my apartment’s internet access is through the university’s network. Let me know if it is and I’ll see if I can scare it up from another source.
Thanks nous, but that is indeed paywalled.
Thanks nous, but that is indeed paywalled.
Try https://linuxdistrowatchers.com/data/Mbembe_Achille_2003_Necropolitics_1.pdf.
Try https://linuxdistrowatchers.com/data/Mbembe_Achille_2003_Necropolitics_1.pdf.
Amnesty Int looked at two cases where families were nearly wiped out and there was no indication of any military target.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/israel-opt-us-made-munitions-killed-43-civilians-in-two-documented-israeli-air-strikes-in-gaza-new-investigation/
Multiply by some number probably in the hundreds.
Then watch our very own Baghdad Bob John Kirby talk about the war at press conferences.
Amnesty Int looked at two cases where families were nearly wiped out and there was no indication of any military target.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/israel-opt-us-made-munitions-killed-43-civilians-in-two-documented-israeli-air-strikes-in-gaza-new-investigation/
Multiply by some number probably in the hundreds.
Then watch our very own Baghdad Bob John Kirby talk about the war at press conferences.
Something more pleasant— apparently the constancy of the plane of oscillation for a Foucault pendulum is a physics myth.
https://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html
It works at the poles. But in temperate latitudes the time it takes for a complete cycle is longer than 24 hours, so if you wait a day you can easily see ( from logic, without having to do difficult 3d visualizing) that it is no longer in the same plane.
What had confused me and still does ( the whole subject confuses me if I try to understand it intuitively, except at the poles) is what happens at the equator. There is no Coriolis force there ( and therefore no hurricanes). So I assume if, for example, the pendulum starts off swinging north- south, just for the sake of easy visualization, it would continue to do so because there is zero effect there ( or alternatively, the period is infinity). But why? It definitely isn’t in the sane plane 6 hours later. Even if you allow for parallel planes being the same plane, that parallel plane is tangent to the globe 6 hours later. I assume a frictionless pendulum would still go north south 6 hours later, but why exactly?
I have decided the earth doesn’t rotate. The Coriolis force is a myth. Hurricanes are caused by aery spirits. Materialistic monism is wrong, Chalmers hard problem of consciousness is dissolved, and I pretty much have a theory of everything.
Something more pleasant— apparently the constancy of the plane of oscillation for a Foucault pendulum is a physics myth.
https://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html
It works at the poles. But in temperate latitudes the time it takes for a complete cycle is longer than 24 hours, so if you wait a day you can easily see ( from logic, without having to do difficult 3d visualizing) that it is no longer in the same plane.
What had confused me and still does ( the whole subject confuses me if I try to understand it intuitively, except at the poles) is what happens at the equator. There is no Coriolis force there ( and therefore no hurricanes). So I assume if, for example, the pendulum starts off swinging north- south, just for the sake of easy visualization, it would continue to do so because there is zero effect there ( or alternatively, the period is infinity). But why? It definitely isn’t in the sane plane 6 hours later. Even if you allow for parallel planes being the same plane, that parallel plane is tangent to the globe 6 hours later. I assume a frictionless pendulum would still go north south 6 hours later, but why exactly?
I have decided the earth doesn’t rotate. The Coriolis force is a myth. Hurricanes are caused by aery spirits. Materialistic monism is wrong, Chalmers hard problem of consciousness is dissolved, and I pretty much have a theory of everything.
“ Even if you allow for parallel planes being the same plane, ”
Sort of. I mean, in one reference frame a plane could be constant, but in one move ing relative to it, it gets shifted.
But since in my TOE physics is BS, it doesn’t matter.
“ Even if you allow for parallel planes being the same plane, ”
Sort of. I mean, in one reference frame a plane could be constant, but in one move ing relative to it, it gets shifted.
But since in my TOE physics is BS, it doesn’t matter.
Thanks, nous!
Thanks, nous!
“Israel deserves no benefit of a doubt , no more than Hamas, and the claim that we are trying to get them to kill fewer civilians means nothing if we still give them bombs. It’s theater.”
Thank you, Donald. Of course, Israel is deliberately killing civilians. As for the phrase “as many as possible”. I think that came from me. What I meant to say, or what I think that phrase means, is: “as many as possible while still having a fig leaf of pretense of legitimate military need.” In other words, deliberately jacking up the “collateral damage” as high as possible. Next step: incarcerate as many males as possible under the claim of arresting Hamas people. They have already deliberately destroyed the economy of Gaza and the infrastructure and the housing. One of the ministers made a statement about economic development post war. He did not say development for the citizens of Gaza. I think this whole operation is illegal settlement writ large.
“Israel deserves no benefit of a doubt , no more than Hamas, and the claim that we are trying to get them to kill fewer civilians means nothing if we still give them bombs. It’s theater.”
Thank you, Donald. Of course, Israel is deliberately killing civilians. As for the phrase “as many as possible”. I think that came from me. What I meant to say, or what I think that phrase means, is: “as many as possible while still having a fig leaf of pretense of legitimate military need.” In other words, deliberately jacking up the “collateral damage” as high as possible. Next step: incarcerate as many males as possible under the claim of arresting Hamas people. They have already deliberately destroyed the economy of Gaza and the infrastructure and the housing. One of the ministers made a statement about economic development post war. He did not say development for the citizens of Gaza. I think this whole operation is illegal settlement writ large.
Early in the Gaza offensive I was thinking a lot about the last book of the Iliad, with Achilles and Hector together in Achilles’ camp mourning their lost. It struck me today how that scene was only possible because the gods used their power to preserve Hector’s body as Achilles dragged it around Troy in his world-unmaking grief.
There is no power preserving Gaza’s “body” in this moment from Israel’s world-unmaking grief. The latest US veto in the UN has prevented that.
Lest any wonder, this is a tragedy, not an epic.
Early in the Gaza offensive I was thinking a lot about the last book of the Iliad, with Achilles and Hector together in Achilles’ camp mourning their lost. It struck me today how that scene was only possible because the gods used their power to preserve Hector’s body as Achilles dragged it around Troy in his world-unmaking grief.
There is no power preserving Gaza’s “body” in this moment from Israel’s world-unmaking grief. The latest US veto in the UN has prevented that.
Lest any wonder, this is a tragedy, not an epic.
“Turn the globe and voile!”
I think you mean voila! Though Léon Foucault might have sailed round the world testing his theory.
“Turn the globe and voile!”
I think you mean voila! Though Léon Foucault might have sailed round the world testing his theory.
Slight correction there: It’s Hector’s father Priamos that’s together with Achilles.
And after the end of that epic things get really nasty: Achilles’ son beats Priamos to death with the body of Hector’s infant son Astyanax (preserved also as an Attic vase painting).
Btw, I get the general impression that the gods get ever more unpleasant from the era of Homer over the Hellenistic epics to the classic and then late Roman ones (although I think the moral low point is in Statius’ Thebaid* where some gods could easily run in GOP primaries and the goddess of virtue seriously considers moving to the Underworld because of the disgusting behaviour of the Olympians).
*actually a favorite of mine. Statius seems to have possessed a great sense of very black humor.
Slight correction there: It’s Hector’s father Priamos that’s together with Achilles.
And after the end of that epic things get really nasty: Achilles’ son beats Priamos to death with the body of Hector’s infant son Astyanax (preserved also as an Attic vase painting).
Btw, I get the general impression that the gods get ever more unpleasant from the era of Homer over the Hellenistic epics to the classic and then late Roman ones (although I think the moral low point is in Statius’ Thebaid* where some gods could easily run in GOP primaries and the goddess of virtue seriously considers moving to the Underworld because of the disgusting behaviour of the Olympians).
*actually a favorite of mine. Statius seems to have possessed a great sense of very black humor.
@Hartmut, yep, fumbled that one a bit.
@Hartmut, yep, fumbled that one a bit.
I think you mean voila!
I’d like to pretend that it was a typo. But the fact is that my knowledge of the language is minimal. Except for knowing that its spelling is crazy. 😉
I think you mean voila!
I’d like to pretend that it was a typo. But the fact is that my knowledge of the language is minimal. Except for knowing that its spelling is crazy. 😉
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/people-are-starving-wfp-says-humanitarian-operation-in-gaza-collapsing/ar-AA1lfMl9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=c14244d2fa364d4fb14018142c964d00&ei=22
Every day I see some twat headline squawking about Democrats or feminists or the left etc not expressing enough outrage over Hamas rape and sex abuse. My theory is that the people who write articles like that are happy as hell over the rape stories because it gives them something to howl about to avoid talking about what Israel is doing and has done to tens of thousands of Palestinians, many female.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/people-are-starving-wfp-says-humanitarian-operation-in-gaza-collapsing/ar-AA1lfMl9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=c14244d2fa364d4fb14018142c964d00&ei=22
Every day I see some twat headline squawking about Democrats or feminists or the left etc not expressing enough outrage over Hamas rape and sex abuse. My theory is that the people who write articles like that are happy as hell over the rape stories because it gives them something to howl about to avoid talking about what Israel is doing and has done to tens of thousands of Palestinians, many female.
The problem is our guy Biden could put a stop to all this next week if he wanted to, because without continuous US supply of ammo the IDF would run out in days.
The problem is our guy Biden could put a stop to all this next week if he wanted to, because without continuous US supply of ammo the IDF would run out in days.
Instead he’s circumventing Congress to push through arms shipments using emergency provisions:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/world/middleeast/us-israel-tanks-ammunition.html
Instead he’s circumventing Congress to push through arms shipments using emergency provisions:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/world/middleeast/us-israel-tanks-ammunition.html
Biden is enabling the slaughter. John Kirby, one of the government spokespeople, is a grotesque clown. ( He was this way in Yemen back in 2016).
But the Republicans manage to be worse. It didn’t help that three college presidents managed to be amazingly tone deaf in hedging whether calls for Jewish genocide violated codes of conduct. First, they accepted the premise of the question and second, they treated it as just another point of view.
So most of the debate in the US is not about our support for mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing. It’s about wokeness and double standards on speech codes, something worth talking about but also the perfect excuse to ignore the actual crime against humanity that has bipartisan support.
Biden is enabling the slaughter. John Kirby, one of the government spokespeople, is a grotesque clown. ( He was this way in Yemen back in 2016).
But the Republicans manage to be worse. It didn’t help that three college presidents managed to be amazingly tone deaf in hedging whether calls for Jewish genocide violated codes of conduct. First, they accepted the premise of the question and second, they treated it as just another point of view.
So most of the debate in the US is not about our support for mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing. It’s about wokeness and double standards on speech codes, something worth talking about but also the perfect excuse to ignore the actual crime against humanity that has bipartisan support.
The premise of the question was that college radicals who support Hamas are calling for Jewish genocide. This is the equivalent of saying that people who support Israel are supporting Palestinian genocide.
If Hamas actually could defeat and conquer Israel you’d have a likely genocide and the way Israel is conducting the war might fit the legal definition and they do seem very interested in ethnic cleansing, But nobody afaik is marching around campuses calling for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or genocide for Jews. People are taking cruel thoughtless and often bigoted positions and if they thought them through and stated them out loud then these would be calls for genocide, but afaik that isn’t happening.
If we had an honest political culture— oh well, nevermind.
The premise of the question was that college radicals who support Hamas are calling for Jewish genocide. This is the equivalent of saying that people who support Israel are supporting Palestinian genocide.
If Hamas actually could defeat and conquer Israel you’d have a likely genocide and the way Israel is conducting the war might fit the legal definition and they do seem very interested in ethnic cleansing, But nobody afaik is marching around campuses calling for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or genocide for Jews. People are taking cruel thoughtless and often bigoted positions and if they thought them through and stated them out loud then these would be calls for genocide, but afaik that isn’t happening.
If we had an honest political culture— oh well, nevermind.
I’m reminded of 1968. Both parties were complicit with the murder of civilians in an immoral war being fought, at that point, mostly for vanity’s sake–no one wanted to admit we were losing. It was the run up to an election year and the neo-fascist wing of the Republican party was backing Nixon and wanted to win the war since what you fight for doesn’t matter, and how many civilians you kill doesn’t matter, only pride of winning is important. The Democrats were divided on the war (and on other issues such as Jim Crow).
So who to vote for? Since I was 14, I didn’t have to choose. Nixon won. He then committed war crimes while capitalizing on the Democrats’ rejection of Jim Crow by inviting racists into the Republican party–a ploy continued by Reagan.
I think it was Gene McCarthy who said that choosing who to vote for that year was like choosing between a profanity and an obscenity. The stakes for us here now are even higher since the choice is between a divided and argumentative party and total fascists, plus ego-driven crack pot third parties and the pro-oligarchy Third Way.
So while I am beyond disgusted with the Biden admin’s opposition to a cease fire and continued military support for Israel, I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
I’m reminded of 1968. Both parties were complicit with the murder of civilians in an immoral war being fought, at that point, mostly for vanity’s sake–no one wanted to admit we were losing. It was the run up to an election year and the neo-fascist wing of the Republican party was backing Nixon and wanted to win the war since what you fight for doesn’t matter, and how many civilians you kill doesn’t matter, only pride of winning is important. The Democrats were divided on the war (and on other issues such as Jim Crow).
So who to vote for? Since I was 14, I didn’t have to choose. Nixon won. He then committed war crimes while capitalizing on the Democrats’ rejection of Jim Crow by inviting racists into the Republican party–a ploy continued by Reagan.
I think it was Gene McCarthy who said that choosing who to vote for that year was like choosing between a profanity and an obscenity. The stakes for us here now are even higher since the choice is between a divided and argumentative party and total fascists, plus ego-driven crack pot third parties and the pro-oligarchy Third Way.
So while I am beyond disgusted with the Biden admin’s opposition to a cease fire and continued military support for Israel, I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
But nobody afaik is marching around campuses calling for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or genocide for Jews. People are taking cruel thoughtless and often bigoted positions and if they thought them through and stated them out loud then these would be calls for genocide, but afaik that isn’t happening.
If we had an honest political culture— oh well, nevermind.
Really, IMHO no more need be said.
But nobody afaik is marching around campuses calling for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or genocide for Jews. People are taking cruel thoughtless and often bigoted positions and if they thought them through and stated them out loud then these would be calls for genocide, but afaik that isn’t happening.
If we had an honest political culture— oh well, nevermind.
Really, IMHO no more need be said.
I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
Well, on that at least we can agree.
I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
Well, on that at least we can agree.
I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
Well, on that at least we can agree.
Pretty sure everybody here is on the same page on that.
I am also terrified that Biden might lose.
Well, on that at least we can agree.
Pretty sure everybody here is on the same page on that.
I would like to see both of them lose but there are currently no alternatives I would want to vote for. I would vote for Justin Amash if he were running but that’s about it. Seems like most politicians, by the time they reach the federal level, are of questionable character.
I would like to see both of them lose but there are currently no alternatives I would want to vote for. I would vote for Justin Amash if he were running but that’s about it. Seems like most politicians, by the time they reach the federal level, are of questionable character.
“ So while I am beyond disgusted with the Biden admin’s opposition to a cease fire and continued military support for Israel, I am also terrified that Biden might lose.”
Agreed. A few decades ago I would have been a “ burn it all down” type but the stereotype about age making one less radical in that way is true in my case. I feel the emotion still, especially when watching part of a John Kirby press conference. Not going to act on it.
CharlesWT— I have a lot of sympathy for that pov, ( see above) but end up on the Democratic side. I actually like some Democratic politicians. If one set aside some of his foreign policy, I like Biden on some domestic issues.
Justin Amash is an anti- Trump libertarian Republican Palestinian Christian, which is an interesting mix. I couldn’t vote for a libertarian though I sometimes agree with them on a few issues.He lost some relatives in Gaza several weeks who were sheltering on church property. The church itself was not destroyed but people were killed on church grounds.
“ So while I am beyond disgusted with the Biden admin’s opposition to a cease fire and continued military support for Israel, I am also terrified that Biden might lose.”
Agreed. A few decades ago I would have been a “ burn it all down” type but the stereotype about age making one less radical in that way is true in my case. I feel the emotion still, especially when watching part of a John Kirby press conference. Not going to act on it.
CharlesWT— I have a lot of sympathy for that pov, ( see above) but end up on the Democratic side. I actually like some Democratic politicians. If one set aside some of his foreign policy, I like Biden on some domestic issues.
Justin Amash is an anti- Trump libertarian Republican Palestinian Christian, which is an interesting mix. I couldn’t vote for a libertarian though I sometimes agree with them on a few issues.He lost some relatives in Gaza several weeks who were sheltering on church property. The church itself was not destroyed but people were killed on church grounds.
Since this is the X-Files: Alex Jones has been reinstated on Twitter by Elon Musk, and in his first tweet reposted something by Andrew Tate. So, three of the most appalling men in public consciousness at the moment, united in one episode.
Perfect.
Since this is the X-Files: Alex Jones has been reinstated on Twitter by Elon Musk, and in his first tweet reposted something by Andrew Tate. So, three of the most appalling men in public consciousness at the moment, united in one episode.
Perfect.
I’m glad that article includes discussion of whether or not the forced displacement of large numbers of Palestinians to outside Israel is intentional.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinians-starve-as-gaza-war-rages-amid-fears-of-exodus-into-egypt/ar-AA1llogp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=f35c7df4d86345b28cb70e4c76b6c9c0&ei=13
I’m glad that article includes discussion of whether or not the forced displacement of large numbers of Palestinians to outside Israel is intentional.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinians-starve-as-gaza-war-rages-amid-fears-of-exodus-into-egypt/ar-AA1llogp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=f35c7df4d86345b28cb70e4c76b6c9c0&ei=13
From nbcnews dot com:
Failure on the global stage? Because no nation-states are failing on the global stage, hell, let’s go after the universities. Misdirection, demagoguing, let me count the ways that people can think up to make things worse.
From nbcnews dot com:
Failure on the global stage? Because no nation-states are failing on the global stage, hell, let’s go after the universities. Misdirection, demagoguing, let me count the ways that people can think up to make things worse.
Misdirection, demagoguing, let me count the ways that people can think up to make things worse.
Yup.
And talking of the general subject of making things worse, further to my previous, what was missing? Add Tucker Carlson into the Elon Musk/Alex Jones/Andrew Tate mix.
https://wapo.st/3v0Tp0h
Misdirection, demagoguing, let me count the ways that people can think up to make things worse.
Yup.
And talking of the general subject of making things worse, further to my previous, what was missing? Add Tucker Carlson into the Elon Musk/Alex Jones/Andrew Tate mix.
https://wapo.st/3v0Tp0h
Failure on the global stage? Because no nation-states are failing on the global stage, hell, let’s go after the universities.
Well, it’s good to know that she feels that the administration isn’t failing. (Because if it was, she would be demanding investigations into that. Even if it is outside her committee’s remit – – when have details like that ever mattered?)
Failure on the global stage? Because no nation-states are failing on the global stage, hell, let’s go after the universities.
Well, it’s good to know that she feels that the administration isn’t failing. (Because if it was, she would be demanding investigations into that. Even if it is outside her committee’s remit – – when have details like that ever mattered?)
How embarrassing for elite universities? Three graduates and presidents of elite universities are completely owned by a dumbass who is also a graduate of an elite university.
How embarrassing for elite universities? Three graduates and presidents of elite universities are completely owned by a dumbass who is also a graduate of an elite university.
I don’t have much sympathy for college presidents and they walked into that trap, but they were giving the correct legal answer. They also should have known what it sounded like. So yeah, it was stupid. The question was also in bad faith.
That’s actually what irritates me. They should have pushed back on the premise and instead they essentially threw their own students under the bus by supposedly standing up for their free speech rights. As bad as some of the campus rhetoric is, afaik nobody is marching for genocide. Palestinian slogans can be interpreted in multiple ways, but that’s what the real issue is–can people say things like “from the river to the sea” meaning equality for Palestinians when others will hear this as “drive the Jews into the sea”? And the word “intifada” means uprising, not necessarily violent. It is like calling for a revolution, not exactly unknown on college campuses.
The only legitimate point I have seen made on the conservative side is that colleges might be hypocritical or incoherent in holding two conflicting views–on the one hand colleges are for free speech and debate on very emotional issues and on the other hand students should feel’safe”. Even here I don’t know if the conservatives are overstating the issue, but that is at least a plausible issue to raise.
I don’t have much sympathy for college presidents and they walked into that trap, but they were giving the correct legal answer. They also should have known what it sounded like. So yeah, it was stupid. The question was also in bad faith.
That’s actually what irritates me. They should have pushed back on the premise and instead they essentially threw their own students under the bus by supposedly standing up for their free speech rights. As bad as some of the campus rhetoric is, afaik nobody is marching for genocide. Palestinian slogans can be interpreted in multiple ways, but that’s what the real issue is–can people say things like “from the river to the sea” meaning equality for Palestinians when others will hear this as “drive the Jews into the sea”? And the word “intifada” means uprising, not necessarily violent. It is like calling for a revolution, not exactly unknown on college campuses.
The only legitimate point I have seen made on the conservative side is that colleges might be hypocritical or incoherent in holding two conflicting views–on the one hand colleges are for free speech and debate on very emotional issues and on the other hand students should feel’safe”. Even here I don’t know if the conservatives are overstating the issue, but that is at least a plausible issue to raise.
Correcting myself a bit–some students and faculty are also defending Hamas’s actions as “resistance”. That’s bad, but it is the moral equivalent of defending Israel’s own actions in Gaza. I am inclined to call those mass murder and maybe genocide, but am a free speech absolutist about people having the right to argue for Israel’s position on college campuses. But of course nobody in the mainstream even thinks of the issue from that pov.
Correcting myself a bit–some students and faculty are also defending Hamas’s actions as “resistance”. That’s bad, but it is the moral equivalent of defending Israel’s own actions in Gaza. I am inclined to call those mass murder and maybe genocide, but am a free speech absolutist about people having the right to argue for Israel’s position on college campuses. But of course nobody in the mainstream even thinks of the issue from that pov.
Welcome back, Senator McCarthy.
Time for a revival of The Crucible.
More weight.
Welcome back, Senator McCarthy.
Time for a revival of The Crucible.
More weight.
At least one of the Univ. Preznits should have responded with:
“Sphincter say what?”
Just so that the video clip of the resulting exchange would go massively viral to the embarrassment of the GOP witch-hunters, drowning out the gotchas.
“Are you trying to show contempt for this committee?”
“No, I’m trying to hide it as best I can.”
At least one of the Univ. Preznits should have responded with:
“Sphincter say what?”
Just so that the video clip of the resulting exchange would go massively viral to the embarrassment of the GOP witch-hunters, drowning out the gotchas.
“Are you trying to show contempt for this committee?”
“No, I’m trying to hide it as best I can.”
Welcome back, Senator McCarthy.
Time for a revival of The Crucible.
Exactly! Which is what I was getting at when I commented on the outrageous question of whether or not they “supported the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state”. Are you now, or have you ever been indeed…
Welcome back, Senator McCarthy.
Time for a revival of The Crucible.
Exactly! Which is what I was getting at when I commented on the outrageous question of whether or not they “supported the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state”. Are you now, or have you ever been indeed…
Biden himself is finally talking about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing. Better extremely late than never.
I hope this bear hug theory ( that Biden has influence in Israel because he gave then unwavering support and empathy) will turn out to be true. It wouldn’t justify all the deaths, but maybe Biden can reach over Bibi’s head and appeal to Israelis, many of whom correctly blame Bibi for his incompetence at letting this happen.
Biden himself is finally talking about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing. Better extremely late than never.
I hope this bear hug theory ( that Biden has influence in Israel because he gave then unwavering support and empathy) will turn out to be true. It wouldn’t justify all the deaths, but maybe Biden can reach over Bibi’s head and appeal to Israelis, many of whom correctly blame Bibi for his incompetence at letting this happen.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/amid-outcry-over-gaza-tactics-050440482.html
This is about videos made by Israeli soldiers behaving in racist ways.
And this is also an example of the value and limitations of Twitter. Or X.
I’ve been seeing these videos and other videos related to the conflict which seem newsworthy and until now they haven’t reached the mainstream press. Some have been videos put out by Israel and then retracted when criticized as obvious frauds by speakers of Arabic. I would tentatively accept the judgements of people about the reality of the videos or the validity of the criticisms of the alleged fakes, but I am not a speaker of Arabic or Hebrew and have no way to determine if a video is real. So one does need experts to weigh in.
And social media does put pressure on governments and the press to respond.
At the same time, the msm is often biased ( imo). So you need all of it. And I would be very wary of censorship attempts.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/amid-outcry-over-gaza-tactics-050440482.html
This is about videos made by Israeli soldiers behaving in racist ways.
And this is also an example of the value and limitations of Twitter. Or X.
I’ve been seeing these videos and other videos related to the conflict which seem newsworthy and until now they haven’t reached the mainstream press. Some have been videos put out by Israel and then retracted when criticized as obvious frauds by speakers of Arabic. I would tentatively accept the judgements of people about the reality of the videos or the validity of the criticisms of the alleged fakes, but I am not a speaker of Arabic or Hebrew and have no way to determine if a video is real. So one does need experts to weigh in.
And social media does put pressure on governments and the press to respond.
At the same time, the msm is often biased ( imo). So you need all of it. And I would be very wary of censorship attempts.
Biden himself is finally talking about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing. Better extremely late than never.
Agreed.
Biden himself is finally talking about Israel’s indiscriminate bombing. Better extremely late than never.
Agreed.