by liberal japonicus
At the likely possibility of reducing this dead horse to free-floating horse molecules, consider this
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/05/house-democrats-infrastructure-vote-wait-megabill-519731
Politico is pretty egregious on the whole moderate thing, but that’s not what caught my eye, it was the controposing use of the term of ‘liberal’. I don’t know if it is progress but after a feint
The successful vote followed hours of painstaking negotiation between moderates and progressives that yielded a statement from caucus centrists committing to the party-line social safety net bill, if cost estimates met their projections. But the caveat in that centrist statement underscored the fragility of the underlying accord — House moderates are now staking their votes on an independent budget analysis that may take weeks to produce.
they seem to have given up trying to use progressive as the deprecation of choice. Check out the next paragraph.
While the House only took a procedural vote Friday on their progressive package of health care, child care and environmental investments, Biden and other Democratic leaders publicly promised the chamber would vote on the bill before Thanksgiving.
Maybe I’m misreading this, but the second use of progressive sounds faintly supportive. And here was the first para
House Democrats broke a monthslong fever Friday that has imperiled their entire domestic agenda, thanks to a truce from moderates and liberals brokered to advance more than $2 trillion in party priorities.
Not really crazy about the Democrat’s ‘fever’, but setting that aside, is it moderates and liberals vs progressives? Or are liberals the new cover term?
I also found this interesting:
In a sign of how much trust has eroded, Congressional Progressive Caucus leader Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash) asked each of the centrists who signed the statement to look her in the eye as they committed both publicly and privately to vote for the broader spending deal after they’ve seen cost estimates, according to multiple Democrats familiar with the exchange.
Talk about this, or anything else.
So, how is the weather in your area today?
So, how is the weather in your area today?
unseasonably cold.
we went from 70s to 50s without stopping in the 60s.
unseasonably cold.
we went from 70s to 50s without stopping in the 60s.
That’s too bad. The 60’s were pretty good.
That’s too bad. The 60’s were pretty good.
Maybe it is just me, but I feel like Japanese have always paid more attention to the weather. So this year has folks freaked out, or possibly me freaked out and imagining everyone around me feels the same way.
My last day of swimming was Sept 31. Water was cold, but two days before, it was like summer.
Two weeks after Hokkaido’s Wakkanai peaked at 32.7 ° C on July 29, mercury fell to just 2.6 ° C at dawn on Thursday ̵
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/extreme-weather-in-japan-from-cold-snap-in-hokkaido-to-deluge-in-kyushu
Japanese do gaman better than anyone, having invented the term, but I feel like there is a palpable sense of unease.
Maybe it is just me, but I feel like Japanese have always paid more attention to the weather. So this year has folks freaked out, or possibly me freaked out and imagining everyone around me feels the same way.
My last day of swimming was Sept 31. Water was cold, but two days before, it was like summer.
Two weeks after Hokkaido’s Wakkanai peaked at 32.7 ° C on July 29, mercury fell to just 2.6 ° C at dawn on Thursday ̵
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/extreme-weather-in-japan-from-cold-snap-in-hokkaido-to-deluge-in-kyushu
Japanese do gaman better than anyone, having invented the term, but I feel like there is a palpable sense of unease.
For about the past week here in north-central Texas the temperatures have been about ten or more degrees below the average of about 51-71 degrees.
The last few years here spring and summer temperatures have generally been at or below average while the fall and winter have been at or above average. So flatting the curve on the seasons…
For about the past week here in north-central Texas the temperatures have been about ten or more degrees below the average of about 51-71 degrees.
The last few years here spring and summer temperatures have generally been at or below average while the fall and winter have been at or above average. So flatting the curve on the seasons…
It’s cold. Early November is usually pleasant and fall- like and late November is early winter-like, but at the moment it’s cold. That’s my weather report.
So one predictable way to spin the BBB is that the progressives have lost ( which is arguably true) and they should have surrendered to Presidents Manchin and Sinema right from the start and it is their fault the Republicans won in Virginia. The NYT editorial board seems to feel that way, as does this jackass—
https://www.yahoo.com/news/joe-manchin-won-progressives-folded-040702521.html
I actually wish political pundits ( no matter what their ideological predilections) would talk about the horse race aspects objectively and would also treat the substance of the bills as though it mattered. But the job seems to attract trolls.
It’s cold. Early November is usually pleasant and fall- like and late November is early winter-like, but at the moment it’s cold. That’s my weather report.
So one predictable way to spin the BBB is that the progressives have lost ( which is arguably true) and they should have surrendered to Presidents Manchin and Sinema right from the start and it is their fault the Republicans won in Virginia. The NYT editorial board seems to feel that way, as does this jackass—
https://www.yahoo.com/news/joe-manchin-won-progressives-folded-040702521.html
I actually wish political pundits ( no matter what their ideological predilections) would talk about the horse race aspects objectively and would also treat the substance of the bills as though it mattered. But the job seems to attract trolls.
Reading this, I see alleged promises from House “ moderates” that they will pass the BBB after assurances and nothing from Manchin or Sinema,
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/us/politics/house-infrastructure-reconciliation.html
And the moderate promise seems weird. Why hold back now if they plan to support it later — it only makes sense if they still want to make further cuts or do more posturing once the cost estimates come in.
And none of it means anything if Manchin and Sinema balk.
Though if that happens it will be harder to blame the progressives. But in that case I suspect all the centrist power worshippers will praise Manchin and Sinema for not backing down.
Reading this, I see alleged promises from House “ moderates” that they will pass the BBB after assurances and nothing from Manchin or Sinema,
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/us/politics/house-infrastructure-reconciliation.html
And the moderate promise seems weird. Why hold back now if they plan to support it later — it only makes sense if they still want to make further cuts or do more posturing once the cost estimates come in.
And none of it means anything if Manchin and Sinema balk.
Though if that happens it will be harder to blame the progressives. But in that case I suspect all the centrist power worshippers will praise Manchin and Sinema for not backing down.
is it moderates and liberals vs progressives? Or are liberals the new cover term?
My sense is that the terms “liberal” and “progressive” are largely interchangeable. With the possible caveat that liberal might encompass folks a bit closer to the center. Maybe.
one predictable way to spin the BBB is that the progressives have lost ( which is arguably true) and they should have surrendered to Presidents Manchin and Sinema right from the start
When you need votes from Manchin and Sinema, it may be worth announcing that they “won.” Even if it’s not accurate. Politics is like that sometimes: you have to give cover to someone who doesn’t deserve it in order to get stuff done. Plenty of time, after the bill is signed, to take credit where it’s due.
Alternatively, of course, you can demand credit up front, and lose the vote. Think of it as ideological “purity” in another form.
is it moderates and liberals vs progressives? Or are liberals the new cover term?
My sense is that the terms “liberal” and “progressive” are largely interchangeable. With the possible caveat that liberal might encompass folks a bit closer to the center. Maybe.
one predictable way to spin the BBB is that the progressives have lost ( which is arguably true) and they should have surrendered to Presidents Manchin and Sinema right from the start
When you need votes from Manchin and Sinema, it may be worth announcing that they “won.” Even if it’s not accurate. Politics is like that sometimes: you have to give cover to someone who doesn’t deserve it in order to get stuff done. Plenty of time, after the bill is signed, to take credit where it’s due.
Alternatively, of course, you can demand credit up front, and lose the vote. Think of it as ideological “purity” in another form.
Fall in California. A bit over a week ago, a storm gave us the heaviest rainfall in years: 7 inches in 12 hours. Last week, skies were clear and temperatures were back pushing 80. Another big storm due Monday.
Fall in California. A bit over a week ago, a storm gave us the heaviest rainfall in years: 7 inches in 12 hours. Last week, skies were clear and temperatures were back pushing 80. Another big storm due Monday.
And now I find this:
Bipartisanship may be mostly dead. But there seems to be a critical sliver left to warrant life support rather than euthanasia.
And now I find this:
Bipartisanship may be mostly dead. But there seems to be a critical sliver left to warrant life support rather than euthanasia.
We’re having a few days of sun with highs in the 70s. Average that with the days earlier in the week when it was overcast and barely got out of the 30s, and the week has been “seasonal”.
We’re having a few days of sun with highs in the 70s. Average that with the days earlier in the week when it was overcast and barely got out of the 30s, and the week has been “seasonal”.
“there seems to be a critical sliver left to warrant life support rather than euthanasia.”
Now you’re just doing a Terry Schiavo on them: “oh look, a *twitch*”.
“there seems to be a critical sliver left to warrant life support rather than euthanasia.”
Now you’re just doing a Terry Schiavo on them: “oh look, a *twitch*”.
Hard to argue they’re braindead when some actually, visibly, used their brains to decide to do what’s right for their constituents. Rather than going with a knee-jerk No. That would have qualified as a twitch.
Hard to argue they’re braindead when some actually, visibly, used their brains to decide to do what’s right for their constituents. Rather than going with a knee-jerk No. That would have qualified as a twitch.
“Purity” is a strange term.. For the most part it’s been the “ moderates” who have been willing to risk everything to get their way, but in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
“Purity” is a strange term.. For the most part it’s been the “ moderates” who have been willing to risk everything to get their way, but in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
What about the nearly 200 Republicans who voted No?
How shall we judge their “purity”? Shall we tsk, tsk at their rigid observance of Cleek’s Law?
If McConnell did not have the filibuster, so that a BBB reconciliation bill could get voted on in the Senate, is it possible that Schumer would not need Manchin or Sinema because a couple of GOP Senators might “twitch” enough to vote for it? I don’t think so, and I bet that despite his perpetual optimism neither does wj.
But their rigid adherence to Cleek’s Law still would not be “purity”, because everybody knows they’re just cynics.
–TP
What about the nearly 200 Republicans who voted No?
How shall we judge their “purity”? Shall we tsk, tsk at their rigid observance of Cleek’s Law?
If McConnell did not have the filibuster, so that a BBB reconciliation bill could get voted on in the Senate, is it possible that Schumer would not need Manchin or Sinema because a couple of GOP Senators might “twitch” enough to vote for it? I don’t think so, and I bet that despite his perpetual optimism neither does wj.
But their rigid adherence to Cleek’s Law still would not be “purity”, because everybody knows they’re just cynics.
–TP
The Republican Party is almost totally in the grip of its rich donor base, though they also have to throw bones to their hysterical culture warrior twits like Rod Dreher, who sees diversity training and trans people in bathrooms as the central threat to civilization. But yeah, they only get called out on their fanaticism because they are afraid to break with Trump. It comes as a shock when any of them do any normal political thing, like vote for an infrastructure bill. And they get away with it.
But yeah, the focus on the alleged purism of progressives in Congress is bizarre, when they are probably the most pragmatic and transactional people in that dump, If you want the super pure fanatics that wj talks about so much, I can point to a few on Twitter or some comment sections of far left blogs I read.
It’s not actually bizarre, of course. It is part of defining the Overton Window so that someone like AOC is seen as being as fanatical as a true nutcase like Marjory Taylor Greene ( or whatever her name is). Senator Sasse, that supposed sensible Republican, made that comparison several weeks ago. But Sasse in practice is not much better than Greene.
The Republican Party is almost totally in the grip of its rich donor base, though they also have to throw bones to their hysterical culture warrior twits like Rod Dreher, who sees diversity training and trans people in bathrooms as the central threat to civilization. But yeah, they only get called out on their fanaticism because they are afraid to break with Trump. It comes as a shock when any of them do any normal political thing, like vote for an infrastructure bill. And they get away with it.
But yeah, the focus on the alleged purism of progressives in Congress is bizarre, when they are probably the most pragmatic and transactional people in that dump, If you want the super pure fanatics that wj talks about so much, I can point to a few on Twitter or some comment sections of far left blogs I read.
It’s not actually bizarre, of course. It is part of defining the Overton Window so that someone like AOC is seen as being as fanatical as a true nutcase like Marjory Taylor Greene ( or whatever her name is). Senator Sasse, that supposed sensible Republican, made that comparison several weeks ago. But Sasse in practice is not much better than Greene.
“But yeah” is a verbal tic of mine.
“But yeah” is a verbal tic of mine.
Here is Sasse. Imagine Sasse thinking he is a serious adult.
https://twitter.com/TheAtlantic/status/1443286860541878272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Here is Sasse. Imagine Sasse thinking he is a serious adult.
https://twitter.com/TheAtlantic/status/1443286860541878272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
“Purity” is a strange term.. For the most part it’s been the “ moderates” who have been willing to risk everything to get their way, but in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
Donald sparing me the need to come in and say the same thing so that I can get through my 250 pages of student papers in need of grading this weekend.
I also wonder if The Squad’s holdout on this gave cover for the GOP moderates to cross and vote – undermine the Trumpers without looking like they were supporting a win for the Socialists?
“Purity” is a strange term.. For the most part it’s been the “ moderates” who have been willing to risk everything to get their way, but in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
Donald sparing me the need to come in and say the same thing so that I can get through my 250 pages of student papers in need of grading this weekend.
I also wonder if The Squad’s holdout on this gave cover for the GOP moderates to cross and vote – undermine the Trumpers without looking like they were supporting a win for the Socialists?
in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
The left has, in the past, had its fits of demanding ideological purity. But you are correct that currently the left in Congress is being seriously pragmatic in order to get things done.** (To the apparent outrage of some progressives here and in the broader commentariate.)
You are also correct that the Trumpists (can’t call it a wing, when it seems to be all but one wing tip of the GOP these days) are vigorously demanding purity of Republicans. Hampered not at all by the detail that Trump can turn on a dime, and require them to follow slavishly and instantly.
** I actually don’t see AOC as fanatical. Way more liberal than me, and passionate about some issues, but not fanatical.
in the peculiar terminology of centrist political nomenclature it is always the left in the Democratic side which is being pure even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
The left has, in the past, had its fits of demanding ideological purity. But you are correct that currently the left in Congress is being seriously pragmatic in order to get things done.** (To the apparent outrage of some progressives here and in the broader commentariate.)
You are also correct that the Trumpists (can’t call it a wing, when it seems to be all but one wing tip of the GOP these days) are vigorously demanding purity of Republicans. Hampered not at all by the detail that Trump can turn on a dime, and require them to follow slavishly and instantly.
** I actually don’t see AOC as fanatical. Way more liberal than me, and passionate about some issues, but not fanatical.
even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
if the left was in the majority, it wouldn’t have to compromise as much.
but it’s not.
democracy is hard for the minority.
even when it has been the left which has compromised at every step.
if the left was in the majority, it wouldn’t have to compromise as much.
but it’s not.
democracy is hard for the minority.
Democracy, yes. But which “minority” do you have in mind, cleek?
I say MAGAts are a minority in the country, but with the acquiescence of “moderates” they get to outnumber the majority in Congressional representation.
Is keeping the filibuster alive a “moderate” position, or isn’t it?
–TP
Democracy, yes. But which “minority” do you have in mind, cleek?
I say MAGAts are a minority in the country, but with the acquiescence of “moderates” they get to outnumber the majority in Congressional representation.
Is keeping the filibuster alive a “moderate” position, or isn’t it?
–TP
Is keeping the filibuster alive a “moderate” position, or isn’t it?
Neither.** Merely stupid.
** To state the obvious, if it was a moderate position, McConnell wouldn’t want any part of it.
Is keeping the filibuster alive a “moderate” position, or isn’t it?
Neither.** Merely stupid.
** To state the obvious, if it was a moderate position, McConnell wouldn’t want any part of it.
This report strikes me as accurate. With the recent elections, and Dems stampeding in panic, the progressive caucus was under huge pressure. I would wager they were left to “vote their conscience” as they all most likely knew the Leader had the votes.
Those 13 Republicans are going to face an angry base in the upcoming election.
We shall see if the so-called ‘moderates’ who looked Jayapal in the eye and made their promise will keep their word. Who knows? They just might, but they know the Senate has their back and will cover their asses.
Their victory may be a pyrrhic one. If the big GOP wave comes about as they fear, they are the ones who will get slaughtered despite the nice signs that will be up in ’22 promising a big infrastructure project “soon”, because those kinds of projects take a good deal of time in design before the dirt starts moving.
The weather here is off and on stormy with interludes of beautiful sunlight. Temps in the mid 40’s to low 50’s. Not bad for this time of year.
This report strikes me as accurate. With the recent elections, and Dems stampeding in panic, the progressive caucus was under huge pressure. I would wager they were left to “vote their conscience” as they all most likely knew the Leader had the votes.
Those 13 Republicans are going to face an angry base in the upcoming election.
We shall see if the so-called ‘moderates’ who looked Jayapal in the eye and made their promise will keep their word. Who knows? They just might, but they know the Senate has their back and will cover their asses.
Their victory may be a pyrrhic one. If the big GOP wave comes about as they fear, they are the ones who will get slaughtered despite the nice signs that will be up in ’22 promising a big infrastructure project “soon”, because those kinds of projects take a good deal of time in design before the dirt starts moving.
The weather here is off and on stormy with interludes of beautiful sunlight. Temps in the mid 40’s to low 50’s. Not bad for this time of year.
I am sure we will get an earful of all the good things in this bill. And good they are, but a lot of it strikes me as small potatoes. Funny how a negative CBO score meant nothing to the so-called moderates when it came to pork.
But negotiated drug prices, or an expanded child care credit….nah. Those things are simply a bridge too far.
I am sure we will get an earful of all the good things in this bill. And good they are, but a lot of it strikes me as small potatoes. Funny how a negative CBO score meant nothing to the so-called moderates when it came to pork.
But negotiated drug prices, or an expanded child care credit….nah. Those things are simply a bridge too far.
Those 13 Republicans are going to face an angry base in the upcoming election.
A number of them have announced they are retiring. The one from NE-2 — Omaha and some of its suburbs, which will likely shift left somewhat during redistricting — responded to Taylor Greene and Trump’s threat to have him primaried by pointing out that Taylor Greene would lose an Omaha-based district badly, and he wasn’t scared.
Those 13 Republicans are going to face an angry base in the upcoming election.
A number of them have announced they are retiring. The one from NE-2 — Omaha and some of its suburbs, which will likely shift left somewhat during redistricting — responded to Taylor Greene and Trump’s threat to have him primaried by pointing out that Taylor Greene would lose an Omaha-based district badly, and he wasn’t scared.
Funny how a negative CBO score meant nothing to the so-called moderates when it came to pork.
They come from states where the constitutions allow borrowing for capital investment, but not for operating expenses. I grew up in such states, and worked on the legislative staff in one. It’s hard to change their minds just because they’re in Congress now. Most of them are terrified of any proposal from the Squad, who wrote the original Green New Deal resolution, and spent a lot of the space explaining that you didn’t need to raise taxes to pay for all that, or even to borrow, you could simply print money.
Whoever did the BIF/BBB split clearly had that difference in mind.
Funny how a negative CBO score meant nothing to the so-called moderates when it came to pork.
They come from states where the constitutions allow borrowing for capital investment, but not for operating expenses. I grew up in such states, and worked on the legislative staff in one. It’s hard to change their minds just because they’re in Congress now. Most of them are terrified of any proposal from the Squad, who wrote the original Green New Deal resolution, and spent a lot of the space explaining that you didn’t need to raise taxes to pay for all that, or even to borrow, you could simply print money.
Whoever did the BIF/BBB split clearly had that difference in mind.
Though I think The Hill is the bottom of a miserable barrel, wj may want to take note of this by a notorious member of the Squad:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/580243-jayapal-its-worth-passing-spending-plan-even-if-dems-lose-house
Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) said on Friday that it’s worth Democrats passing the party’s sweeping social spending and climate change package even if they lose the House in next year’s midterm elections.
Jayapal was asked early Friday ahead of an expected vote on the legislation if it’s worth the party passing the legislation if it could help the GOP take back the House next year, just as Republicans did in 2010 following passage of the Affordable Care Act.
“Of course it’s worth it if we’re making people’s lives better,” Jayapal said.
“What’s the alternative? To do nothing. I mean, that’s not gonna that’s not gonna get us anywhere … part of what we have to do is really understand the economic frustration that people have right now. And I think that is really important for us.”
Though I think The Hill is the bottom of a miserable barrel, wj may want to take note of this by a notorious member of the Squad:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/580243-jayapal-its-worth-passing-spending-plan-even-if-dems-lose-house
Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) said on Friday that it’s worth Democrats passing the party’s sweeping social spending and climate change package even if they lose the House in next year’s midterm elections.
Jayapal was asked early Friday ahead of an expected vote on the legislation if it’s worth the party passing the legislation if it could help the GOP take back the House next year, just as Republicans did in 2010 following passage of the Affordable Care Act.
“Of course it’s worth it if we’re making people’s lives better,” Jayapal said.
“What’s the alternative? To do nothing. I mean, that’s not gonna that’s not gonna get us anywhere … part of what we have to do is really understand the economic frustration that people have right now. And I think that is really important for us.”
I’lm happy to take $1.2T in infrastructure money and 13 (R) votes and call it a good day.
I’lm happy to take $1.2T in infrastructure money and 13 (R) votes and call it a good day.
Rebecca Solnit in the Guardian saying things that the Guardian might want to pay attention to themselves:
Eric Levitz at New York Magazine has noted that, according to polls, “only a quarter of the public thinks the Build Back Better agenda is going to help ‘people like them’”, and he links to an ABC report that also says “Democrats are failing to sell the legislation to the public, who are broadly unaware of what is in the spending packages.” Though if the public is broadly unaware of what’s in the biggest and most transformative legislation in decades, that’s a huge failure by the media as well as the party. Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/06/democrats-election-victory-loss-media-republicans
Sixteen more papers still to grade…
Rebecca Solnit in the Guardian saying things that the Guardian might want to pay attention to themselves:
Eric Levitz at New York Magazine has noted that, according to polls, “only a quarter of the public thinks the Build Back Better agenda is going to help ‘people like them’”, and he links to an ABC report that also says “Democrats are failing to sell the legislation to the public, who are broadly unaware of what is in the spending packages.” Though if the public is broadly unaware of what’s in the biggest and most transformative legislation in decades, that’s a huge failure by the media as well as the party. Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/06/democrats-election-victory-loss-media-republicans
Sixteen more papers still to grade…
Sixteen more papers still to grade…
Sincere sympathy :^)
Sixteen more papers still to grade…
Sincere sympathy :^)
wrs
wrs
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
ding ding
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
ding ding
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
Explaining what’s in it would be too hard. Might involve arithmetic.
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
Explaining what’s in it would be too hard. Might involve arithmetic.
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
Solnit is always spot on. The above came at the end of the piece. Read the whole thing.
Reporting that people don’t see what’s in it for them instead of reporting on what is in it for them might be the problem in a nutshell.
Solnit is always spot on. The above came at the end of the piece. Read the whole thing.
speaking of moderation….are we there yet?
Opinions, as always, vary.
speaking of moderation….are we there yet?
Opinions, as always, vary.
@byomtov: Might involve arithmetic.
Read this and see if the writer understands arithmetic. Or even words.
“And Freeport may turn out to be a hotspot, with a study predicting it will see one of the largest influxes of travelers in the world.”
“No. 7 on a list of ‘fastest-growing destinations for Americans’ this winter.”
The article linked in my link even makes the distinction clear, with two separate lists.
But no…………
*****
Great point from Solnit, too bad the pundits think their job is to write an endless series of “I’m smarter than everyone else, especially Democrats” gotchas.
@byomtov: Might involve arithmetic.
Read this and see if the writer understands arithmetic. Or even words.
“And Freeport may turn out to be a hotspot, with a study predicting it will see one of the largest influxes of travelers in the world.”
“No. 7 on a list of ‘fastest-growing destinations for Americans’ this winter.”
The article linked in my link even makes the distinction clear, with two separate lists.
But no…………
*****
Great point from Solnit, too bad the pundits think their job is to write an endless series of “I’m smarter than everyone else, especially Democrats” gotchas.
Thanks for the lrb link, bobbyp.
I am fundamentally a conservative in that I am deeply skeptical of violent revolutions and see the Bolsheviks as a cautionary tale of well- intentioned ( in many cases) people setting up a monstrous system. At the same time we comfortable Westerners benefited enormously from past episodes of violence, much of it unjust. And what passes for moderation is also fundamentally an excuse for letting rich people continue to run the world for their own benefit, no matter what the cost for others.
Since I’m not a revolutionary, that means compromise even in the face of climate catastrophe is necessary. But it’s not good and it isn’t a victory, or rather, it is only a victory if it very quickly wins support for policies that would make far more of a difference. So I am tentatively okay if people want to call the infrastructure bill a victory because in some ways it is. But if it isn’t followed up in the next few years by something far better, it will be seen as part of our prolonged inability to do anything useful.
The last paragraphs of that piece really sum it up. A lot of people still talk as though we have time left for slow progress. Even some far lefties talk that way. But we don’t and when we act like we do we we are what I have seen called soft climate denialists. I am one myself if I am honest about it.
Thanks for the lrb link, bobbyp.
I am fundamentally a conservative in that I am deeply skeptical of violent revolutions and see the Bolsheviks as a cautionary tale of well- intentioned ( in many cases) people setting up a monstrous system. At the same time we comfortable Westerners benefited enormously from past episodes of violence, much of it unjust. And what passes for moderation is also fundamentally an excuse for letting rich people continue to run the world for their own benefit, no matter what the cost for others.
Since I’m not a revolutionary, that means compromise even in the face of climate catastrophe is necessary. But it’s not good and it isn’t a victory, or rather, it is only a victory if it very quickly wins support for policies that would make far more of a difference. So I am tentatively okay if people want to call the infrastructure bill a victory because in some ways it is. But if it isn’t followed up in the next few years by something far better, it will be seen as part of our prolonged inability to do anything useful.
The last paragraphs of that piece really sum it up. A lot of people still talk as though we have time left for slow progress. Even some far lefties talk that way. But we don’t and when we act like we do we we are what I have seen called soft climate denialists. I am one myself if I am honest about it.
Btw, the same applies to much of our foreign policy— it is evil and murderous and no decent society would do such things, but we still regularly get outraged by the crimes of our enemies. Pure denialism.
Btw, the same applies to much of our foreign policy— it is evil and murderous and no decent society would do such things, but we still regularly get outraged by the crimes of our enemies. Pure denialism.
Explaining what’s in it would be too hard. Might involve arithmetic.
Not so much arithmetic as having to write about multiple topics. More than a single bumper sticker worth per article could be challenging.
Explaining what’s in it would be too hard. Might involve arithmetic.
Not so much arithmetic as having to write about multiple topics. More than a single bumper sticker worth per article could be challenging.
The for-profit, ad-driven corporate media is doing to the media consumer’s attention span what Grover Norquist wanted to do to government.
We’re drowning in the shallow end.
The for-profit, ad-driven corporate media is doing to the media consumer’s attention span what Grover Norquist wanted to do to government.
We’re drowning in the shallow end.
Since TPTB said talk about anything…
Back in 1994, I wrote a bunch of software that was used to demonstrate audio, video, and other media shared by multiple people over the emerging internet. Recorded lectures, conferences, classes, office hours, video phone calls. In the last few weeks I dug into the backup media I took with me when that company vanished in a series of acquisitions and mergers. Over that time, I got playback of all the recordings I had working, and the ability to encode new video.
This afternoon I took granddaughter #1 out bicycling (Nov 7, Front Range Colorado, 70s and sunny). Afterwards I mentioned to her mother that I was fooling with the old software. TTBOMK, the only time my daughter saw this was when she helped me set up a demo on a Take Your Daughter to Work Day. “Is MikeVision making a comeback?” she asked. “I was thinking about it just last week after a really sucky Zoom session.”
Since TPTB said talk about anything…
Back in 1994, I wrote a bunch of software that was used to demonstrate audio, video, and other media shared by multiple people over the emerging internet. Recorded lectures, conferences, classes, office hours, video phone calls. In the last few weeks I dug into the backup media I took with me when that company vanished in a series of acquisitions and mergers. Over that time, I got playback of all the recordings I had working, and the ability to encode new video.
This afternoon I took granddaughter #1 out bicycling (Nov 7, Front Range Colorado, 70s and sunny). Afterwards I mentioned to her mother that I was fooling with the old software. TTBOMK, the only time my daughter saw this was when she helped me set up a demo on a Take Your Daughter to Work Day. “Is MikeVision making a comeback?” she asked. “I was thinking about it just last week after a really sucky Zoom session.”
Back in 1994, I wrote a bunch of software …
Sometimes, you’re just so far ahead of the curve that the world simple isn’t ready.
Zoom, it must be said, had (lucked into?) amazing timing — they were rising past the competition (GoToMeeting, etc.) at precisely the moment that demand took off thanks to covid.
Back in 1994, I wrote a bunch of software …
Sometimes, you’re just so far ahead of the curve that the world simple isn’t ready.
Zoom, it must be said, had (lucked into?) amazing timing — they were rising past the competition (GoToMeeting, etc.) at precisely the moment that demand took off thanks to covid.
Does anyone here sympathy? Even a tiny bit?
McConnell spent decades chasing power. Now he heeds Trump, who mocks him and wants him gone.
Nah, me neither.
Does anyone here sympathy? Even a tiny bit?
McConnell spent decades chasing power. Now he heeds Trump, who mocks him and wants him gone.
Nah, me neither.
Sometimes, you’re just so far ahead of the curve that the world simple isn’t ready.
There were other people doing interesting things in the problem space. Most of them, though, were people starting from, “We’ll use existing standards, and throw enough expensive hardware at that problem.” I recall a conversation with a researcher that my company was helping fund who argued that his video was so much better than mine — it was — but took offense when I pointed out that his only ran on a $10K workstation with $50K of custom hardware added. I was the only one I knew of who was starting from the point of “Here’s the hardware commonly in use, now let’s do something interesting on that.”
Might have got farther too if I hadn’t been working inside a giant telecom company where legal said the draft papers I showed them conflicted with the company’s official technology positions. The flip side of that was that I made enough right choices during the merger and acquisition frenzy that followed to retire early, comfortably.
This much farther on, though, no one should be having a “sucky Zoom experience.”
Sometimes, you’re just so far ahead of the curve that the world simple isn’t ready.
There were other people doing interesting things in the problem space. Most of them, though, were people starting from, “We’ll use existing standards, and throw enough expensive hardware at that problem.” I recall a conversation with a researcher that my company was helping fund who argued that his video was so much better than mine — it was — but took offense when I pointed out that his only ran on a $10K workstation with $50K of custom hardware added. I was the only one I knew of who was starting from the point of “Here’s the hardware commonly in use, now let’s do something interesting on that.”
Might have got farther too if I hadn’t been working inside a giant telecom company where legal said the draft papers I showed them conflicted with the company’s official technology positions. The flip side of that was that I made enough right choices during the merger and acquisition frenzy that followed to retire early, comfortably.
This much farther on, though, no one should be having a “sucky Zoom experience.”
Far too soon to write off the turtlenecked snake.
Far too soon to write off the turtlenecked snake.
Far too soon to write off the turtlenecked snake.
True. But just watching Trump trash him early and often is amusing.
Far too soon to write off the turtlenecked snake.
True. But just watching Trump trash him early and often is amusing.
speaking of pundits…
Really? Jennifer Rubin?
I see the NYT has given their valuable editorial space to the always execrable Mark Penn. I’ll take a hard pass.
speaking of pundits…
Really? Jennifer Rubin?
I see the NYT has given their valuable editorial space to the always execrable Mark Penn. I’ll take a hard pass.
From bobbyp’s link:
See, I’m not the only (at least nominal) conservative who can see reality on this.
From bobbyp’s link:
See, I’m not the only (at least nominal) conservative who can see reality on this.
Rubin’s years-long streak of being correct continues.
Rubin’s years-long streak of being correct continues.
no one should be having a “sucky Zoom experience.”
we’re on a DSL line at home: 8Mbpsdownu, 0.75 up. surprisingly, that’s fine for streaming video and two people running remote desktop all day.
but my wife’s job mostly involves sitting on Zoom and Teams video meetings. when she’s on a call, my remote desktop can get pretty laggy. it’s still useable, but right on the edge.
a couple of months ago, she was issued a new laptop with a better camera on it. as soon as she started using that for calls, i couldn’t even get remote desktop to connect. the video data the new laptop’s camera was generating completely saturated our upstream bandwidth.
turns out, both Teams and Zoom use the full camera resolution and provide no way at all to throttle it.
so, she had to get her old laptop back.
country life.
no one should be having a “sucky Zoom experience.”
we’re on a DSL line at home: 8Mbpsdownu, 0.75 up. surprisingly, that’s fine for streaming video and two people running remote desktop all day.
but my wife’s job mostly involves sitting on Zoom and Teams video meetings. when she’s on a call, my remote desktop can get pretty laggy. it’s still useable, but right on the edge.
a couple of months ago, she was issued a new laptop with a better camera on it. as soon as she started using that for calls, i couldn’t even get remote desktop to connect. the video data the new laptop’s camera was generating completely saturated our upstream bandwidth.
turns out, both Teams and Zoom use the full camera resolution and provide no way at all to throttle it.
so, she had to get her old laptop back.
country life.
See, I’m not the only (at least nominal) conservative who can see reality on this.
She also says this
The stubborn and self-absorbed resistance to the White House’s reconciliation bill from two Democratic senators has taken a toll. In dragging out negotiations for months, often providing contradictory or incoherent objections and attacking policy agreements forged among Democratic lawmakers, Sens. Joe Manchin III (W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) have done real damage to their party and fed the perception of dysfunction/inaction. (Progressives, by contrast, have demonstrated remarkable flexibility.)
Weren’t you telling us something a bit different about these damned progressives?
See, I’m not the only (at least nominal) conservative who can see reality on this.
She also says this
The stubborn and self-absorbed resistance to the White House’s reconciliation bill from two Democratic senators has taken a toll. In dragging out negotiations for months, often providing contradictory or incoherent objections and attacking policy agreements forged among Democratic lawmakers, Sens. Joe Manchin III (W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) have done real damage to their party and fed the perception of dysfunction/inaction. (Progressives, by contrast, have demonstrated remarkable flexibility.)
Weren’t you telling us something a bit different about these damned progressives?
Weren’t you telling us something a bit different about these damned progressives?
I don’t believe so. But if I did, I was wrong.
Weren’t you telling us something a bit different about these damned progressives?
I don’t believe so. But if I did, I was wrong.
10 people are ordering pizza. 6 of them want pepperoni and mushroooms. 2 want pepperoni, mushrooms and olives. 2 want pepperoni only.
no pizza is ordered until the decision is unanimous.
who here thinks there will be olives on the pizza?
10 people are ordering pizza. 6 of them want pepperoni and mushroooms. 2 want pepperoni, mushrooms and olives. 2 want pepperoni only.
no pizza is ordered until the decision is unanimous.
who here thinks there will be olives on the pizza?
who here thinks there will be olives on the pizza?
(Raises hand)
After all, it’s not that hard to pick off the olives…. 😉
But I do take your point.
who here thinks there will be olives on the pizza?
(Raises hand)
After all, it’s not that hard to pick off the olives…. 😉
But I do take your point.
Well, at least you can be damned sure it will have pepperoni! Yum!
Well, at least you can be damned sure it will have pepperoni! Yum!
turns out, both Teams and Zoom use the full camera resolution and provide no way at all to throttle it.
Right. Assume that it’s the only application running and behave accordingly. And if my granddaughter’s school is any indication, always use full color and full frame size no matter what it does to frame rate or coding quality.
I had a chance to work briefly with a couple of Stanford profs, because I seemed to be the only one that had a video codec that didn’t work that way. Not properly controlled experiments, but the evidence at least suggested if the receiving party had control, they sacrificed everything — color, frame size, whatever — in order to get the frame rate up to a consistent 15 fps. That’s basically the rate at which you can reliably tell if the voice and the lips are synchronized. I have always asserted that if you don’t have that, it’s just a glorified slideshow, not video :^)
When I started, the only graphic display capability that you could be sure people had on their desktop computer was black-and-white (or black-and-something, but only two levels). I did a video codec that was literally black and white: black dots on a white background. I billed it as The World’s Ugliest Video™. It was perfectly capable of sending facial expressions and body language, at least for people you already knew.
turns out, both Teams and Zoom use the full camera resolution and provide no way at all to throttle it.
Right. Assume that it’s the only application running and behave accordingly. And if my granddaughter’s school is any indication, always use full color and full frame size no matter what it does to frame rate or coding quality.
I had a chance to work briefly with a couple of Stanford profs, because I seemed to be the only one that had a video codec that didn’t work that way. Not properly controlled experiments, but the evidence at least suggested if the receiving party had control, they sacrificed everything — color, frame size, whatever — in order to get the frame rate up to a consistent 15 fps. That’s basically the rate at which you can reliably tell if the voice and the lips are synchronized. I have always asserted that if you don’t have that, it’s just a glorified slideshow, not video :^)
When I started, the only graphic display capability that you could be sure people had on their desktop computer was black-and-white (or black-and-something, but only two levels). I did a video codec that was literally black and white: black dots on a white background. I billed it as The World’s Ugliest Video™. It was perfectly capable of sending facial expressions and body language, at least for people you already knew.
Just finished up a long and fruitless back-and-forth on FB with a Clintonian who was attacking Tlaib for having voted against the infrastructure bill, saying that if she couldn’t vote yes for things that help her district that she should give all that money back. Which of course completely mischaracterizes the nature of the “no” vote. Meanwhile, said person also gave a weak “not a supporter of Manchin” defense while offering explanations that normalized right wing talking points in an attempt to placate the swing voters in their head. To them, an inconsequential no vote at the end of steady support for the president’s agenda was a worse crime than the months of opposition from the obstructionists.
Just finished up a long and fruitless back-and-forth on FB with a Clintonian who was attacking Tlaib for having voted against the infrastructure bill, saying that if she couldn’t vote yes for things that help her district that she should give all that money back. Which of course completely mischaracterizes the nature of the “no” vote. Meanwhile, said person also gave a weak “not a supporter of Manchin” defense while offering explanations that normalized right wing talking points in an attempt to placate the swing voters in their head. To them, an inconsequential no vote at the end of steady support for the president’s agenda was a worse crime than the months of opposition from the obstructionists.
Pro tip: Demand “little fishies” on your pizza, and you get a whole pizza to yourself.
I think it works for “anthrax and tire rims” also, too.
Pro tip: Demand “little fishies” on your pizza, and you get a whole pizza to yourself.
I think it works for “anthrax and tire rims” also, too.
Pro tip: Demand “little fishies” on your pizza, and you get a whole pizza to yourself.
Anchovies are great. But somehow nobody else seems to appreciate them.
Fortunately, it is possible to order pizzas (here, anyway) with half having one set of toppings and the other half a different set.
Pro tip: Demand “little fishies” on your pizza, and you get a whole pizza to yourself.
Anchovies are great. But somehow nobody else seems to appreciate them.
Fortunately, it is possible to order pizzas (here, anyway) with half having one set of toppings and the other half a different set.
I just want to know how big of a pizza 10 people are ordering. I don’t even think a Sicilian can handle that.
I just want to know how big of a pizza 10 people are ordering. I don’t even think a Sicilian can handle that.
The Turkish pizza equivalent that I once encountered was not circular but a long ribbon (and I mean several tables long). Either they had a continuous oven with a conveyor or it must be suitable to bake constrictors in strechted form.
The Turkish pizza equivalent that I once encountered was not circular but a long ribbon (and I mean several tables long). Either they had a continuous oven with a conveyor or it must be suitable to bake constrictors in strechted form.
In other news: GOPster unmasks Big Bird as a commie, demands consequences.
In other news: GOPster unmasks Big Bird as a commie, demands consequences.
I just want to know how big of a pizza 10 people are ordering.
It will only be as big as the two morons who want pepperoni only on it agree to.
I just want to know how big of a pizza 10 people are ordering.
It will only be as big as the two morons who want pepperoni only on it agree to.
In other news: GOPster unmasks Big Bird as a commie, demands consequences.
Well, Big Bird isn’t white. So that’s not an amazing reveal.
In other news: GOPster unmasks Big Bird as a commie, demands consequences.
Well, Big Bird isn’t white. So that’s not an amazing reveal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/politics/isis-military.html
Virtually everything the Pentagon said about the drone strike was false. It seems unlikely that in the one case that the press was able to investigate thoroughly the Pentagon made a rare series of blunderr. It seems more likely that this is the norm.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/us/politics/isis-military.html
Virtually everything the Pentagon said about the drone strike was false. It seems unlikely that in the one case that the press was able to investigate thoroughly the Pentagon made a rare series of blunderr. It seems more likely that this is the norm.
My bet: if you suddenly had a magic way to know the truth about drone strikes, you’d find that >50% of them were “wrong target, shouldn’t have been struck”.
Much like the available of DNA tests applied to death-penalty convictions.
My bet: if you suddenly had a magic way to know the truth about drone strikes, you’d find that >50% of them were “wrong target, shouldn’t have been struck”.
Much like the available of DNA tests applied to death-penalty convictions.
That’s why the system fights DNA tests tooth and nail in that context.
That’s why the system fights DNA tests tooth and nail in that context.
This is interesting for a number of reasons. Read it, says me.
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/1049054141/a-secret-tape-made-after-columbine-shows-the-nras-evolution-on-school-shootings
This is interesting for a number of reasons. Read it, says me.
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/1049054141/a-secret-tape-made-after-columbine-shows-the-nras-evolution-on-school-shootings
Interesting, but not particularly surprising. I mean, sure the NRA leaders have nothing but contempt for their members. But why would we expect any different than the way GOP politicians view their party rank and file? Both sets are conning the marks in order to get rich. Or, at least, get their donors rich. Largely the same group of marks, when you thing about it.
Interesting, but not particularly surprising. I mean, sure the NRA leaders have nothing but contempt for their members. But why would we expect any different than the way GOP politicians view their party rank and file? Both sets are conning the marks in order to get rich. Or, at least, get their donors rich. Largely the same group of marks, when you thing about it.
Just to be clear, I think there are some Democratic politicians who are basically shills for their donors, too. But of GOP members of Congress, appears to be maybe a dozen at the most who are not.
Just to be clear, I think there are some Democratic politicians who are basically shills for their donors, too. But of GOP members of Congress, appears to be maybe a dozen at the most who are not.
I mean, sure the NRA leaders have nothing but contempt for their members.
Interesting for a number of reasons – the PR machinations, the secret requests from legislators for talking points, the revelation that the NRA lost a half a million members after the Oklahoma City bombing, the nature of the relationship with the firearms industry.
The contempt for their members was limited. They saw a difference between their “normal” members and the “fruitcakes.” Maybe that’s surprising.
I mean, sure the NRA leaders have nothing but contempt for their members.
Interesting for a number of reasons – the PR machinations, the secret requests from legislators for talking points, the revelation that the NRA lost a half a million members after the Oklahoma City bombing, the nature of the relationship with the firearms industry.
The contempt for their members was limited. They saw a difference between their “normal” members and the “fruitcakes.” Maybe that’s surprising.
They saw a difference between their “normal” members and the “fruitcakes.” Maybe that’s surprising.
Perhaps I missed it. But did the NRA execs happen to reveal whether they see the “hillbillys and fruitcakes” as 5% or 75%?
They saw a difference between their “normal” members and the “fruitcakes.” Maybe that’s surprising.
Perhaps I missed it. But did the NRA execs happen to reveal whether they see the “hillbillys and fruitcakes” as 5% or 75%?
On a different note, I’m seeing some comments on Sen Cruz’ garbage proclamation the “Big Bird is a communist!”
I just don’t get why anyone is surprised. Surely there are others here who can remember the early days of Sesame Street. Then, too, it got denounced for having liberal values. (Although, as I recall, it was mostly because it had a racially integrated cast.)
On a different note, I’m seeing some comments on Sen Cruz’ garbage proclamation the “Big Bird is a communist!”
I just don’t get why anyone is surprised. Surely there are others here who can remember the early days of Sesame Street. Then, too, it got denounced for having liberal values. (Although, as I recall, it was mostly because it had a racially integrated cast.)
We got used to characters from kids shows* being mainly accused of pushing the gay agenda not communism.
*to name but a few: Barney the Dinosaur, the Teletubbies, Buster the Rabbit, Dora the Explorer (she’s also an illegal immigrant)
We got used to characters from kids shows* being mainly accused of pushing the gay agenda not communism.
*to name but a few: Barney the Dinosaur, the Teletubbies, Buster the Rabbit, Dora the Explorer (she’s also an illegal immigrant)
the GOP is a theater troupe dedicated to performing Scenes From The Culture wars for its spongebrained base.
the writers pull storylines from any source they can. the base dosen’t care. it’s just happy for the content.
the GOP is a theater troupe dedicated to performing Scenes From The Culture wars for its spongebrained base.
the writers pull storylines from any source they can. the base dosen’t care. it’s just happy for the content.
Well, of course Big Bird is a commie.
Because, you know, there’s photographic proof of Bert hanging out with Osama bin Laden.
“birds of a feather” also, too.
Cruz is related to a bunch of Cubans, so he should know.
Well, of course Big Bird is a commie.
Because, you know, there’s photographic proof of Bert hanging out with Osama bin Laden.
“birds of a feather” also, too.
Cruz is related to a bunch of Cubans, so he should know.
DemocratsRepublicans in disarray:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-infrastructure-biden/2021/11/09/cc0c4c9e-4167-11ec-9ea7-3eb2406a2e24_story.html
DemocratsRepublicans in disarray:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-infrastructure-biden/2021/11/09/cc0c4c9e-4167-11ec-9ea7-3eb2406a2e24_story.html
Back to Democrats in disarray–
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/opinion/republicans-democrats-crt.html
More comments later, maybe, if I have time.
Back to Democrats in disarray–
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/opinion/republicans-democrats-crt.html
More comments later, maybe, if I have time.
One quick comment. This is a quote from the NYT piece I linked–
“The survey also reported strong opposition to proposals to eliminate school programs that reveal or display achievement gaps:
“By an overwhelming margin (72-17), voters in these two key suburban counties oppose eliminating advanced math courses in Virginia public schools until the 11th grade”
So I don’t want to jump to conclusions, but will do so anyway. It sounds like someone proposed eliminating advanced math classes because of achievement gaps. If so, that is completely 100 percent insane. I could rant more, but won’t, because I don’t know if the implication I am reading into that quote is true.
One quick comment. This is a quote from the NYT piece I linked–
“The survey also reported strong opposition to proposals to eliminate school programs that reveal or display achievement gaps:
“By an overwhelming margin (72-17), voters in these two key suburban counties oppose eliminating advanced math courses in Virginia public schools until the 11th grade”
So I don’t want to jump to conclusions, but will do so anyway. It sounds like someone proposed eliminating advanced math classes because of achievement gaps. If so, that is completely 100 percent insane. I could rant more, but won’t, because I don’t know if the implication I am reading into that quote is true.
By an overwhelming margin (72-17), voters in these two key suburban counties oppose eliminating advanced math courses in Virginia public schools until the 11th grade
So far as I can gather, the actual proposal was to add math options to the usual path that runs through beginning calculus. That usual “advanced” path would still be available, but so would statistics and modeling.
My usual complaint seems to apply: I know what beginning calculus is going to teach; I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling. But then I’m old enough, and have enough college applied math classes under my belt, that I tend to say, “But if they don’t have calculus and linear algebra, all they can learn is cookbook statistics without any of the underlying theory.”
By an overwhelming margin (72-17), voters in these two key suburban counties oppose eliminating advanced math courses in Virginia public schools until the 11th grade
So far as I can gather, the actual proposal was to add math options to the usual path that runs through beginning calculus. That usual “advanced” path would still be available, but so would statistics and modeling.
My usual complaint seems to apply: I know what beginning calculus is going to teach; I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling. But then I’m old enough, and have enough college applied math classes under my belt, that I tend to say, “But if they don’t have calculus and linear algebra, all they can learn is cookbook statistics without any of the underlying theory.”
I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling.
No pun intended.
I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling.
No pun intended.
“I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling”
It’s clearly one of those gendered things, where they push the boys into statistics, and the girls into modeling.
“wait, is that math?”
“there’s numbers, up to 10”.
“I have no idea what they mean when they say statistics and modeling”
It’s clearly one of those gendered things, where they push the boys into statistics, and the girls into modeling.
“wait, is that math?”
“there’s numbers, up to 10”.
common core dot com says this about stats and modelling:
sounds kindof fun, actually.
common core dot com says this about stats and modelling:
sounds kindof fun, actually.
Modeling is the process of choosing and using appropriate mathematics and statistics to analyze empirical situations, to understand them better, and to improve decisions.
More people actually understanding statistics and how they really work has to be a Good Thing. No matter how inconvenient to demagogues everywhere.
Modeling is the process of choosing and using appropriate mathematics and statistics to analyze empirical situations, to understand them better, and to improve decisions.
More people actually understanding statistics and how they really work has to be a Good Thing. No matter how inconvenient to demagogues everywhere.
sounds kindof fun, actually.
Sounds like a (presumably enormously simplified) version of my two-years Masters degree, so I’ll reserve judgement until I can see a syllabus and/or textbook. I spent 36 credit hours, a thesis, and a couple of half-time jobs for seasoning. Not to mention that getting the most of out of some of the classes required a couple of other 400/800 level math classes that I’d already done.
sounds kindof fun, actually.
Sounds like a (presumably enormously simplified) version of my two-years Masters degree, so I’ll reserve judgement until I can see a syllabus and/or textbook. I spent 36 credit hours, a thesis, and a couple of half-time jobs for seasoning. Not to mention that getting the most of out of some of the classes required a couple of other 400/800 level math classes that I’d already done.
Just for reference, most of the concerns that educators raise around advanced courses and the education gap have to do with the sorts of lowered expectations baked into the idea of tracking students and giving separate paths to those who succeed early on and those who start off with lower demonstrated aptitude. There are deep concerns that our assessment methods may be perpetuating and increasing the achievement gap. No teachers want to limit the things their students learn or withhold material from people for the sake of holding back achievement and eliminating gaps that way. What they want is to make sure that more students on the wrong side of the gap are given the opportunity to understand and work up to advanced subjects, and are given the necessary institutional resources to support this learning in their studies.
One place where this is especially visible is in student access to AP courses. Those courses require extra resources and infrastructure and give measurable advantages to students who can take them that are not related to their educational attainment. The student at the school that cannot offer AP courses will be disadvantaged in their application process relative to the student who does have access even though the first is performing at the same or higher level than the second.
And these sorts of programmatic decisions with structural implications often conflict with the desires of individual parents who are seeking to secure as many competitive advantages for their own children as then can.
Just for reference, most of the concerns that educators raise around advanced courses and the education gap have to do with the sorts of lowered expectations baked into the idea of tracking students and giving separate paths to those who succeed early on and those who start off with lower demonstrated aptitude. There are deep concerns that our assessment methods may be perpetuating and increasing the achievement gap. No teachers want to limit the things their students learn or withhold material from people for the sake of holding back achievement and eliminating gaps that way. What they want is to make sure that more students on the wrong side of the gap are given the opportunity to understand and work up to advanced subjects, and are given the necessary institutional resources to support this learning in their studies.
One place where this is especially visible is in student access to AP courses. Those courses require extra resources and infrastructure and give measurable advantages to students who can take them that are not related to their educational attainment. The student at the school that cannot offer AP courses will be disadvantaged in their application process relative to the student who does have access even though the first is performing at the same or higher level than the second.
And these sorts of programmatic decisions with structural implications often conflict with the desires of individual parents who are seeking to secure as many competitive advantages for their own children as then can.
The student at the school that cannot offer AP courses will be disadvantaged in their application process relative to the student who does have access even though the first is performing at the same or higher level than the second.
I believe that it’s Texas (and possibly another state) that has established a rule that if you are in the top 10% of your high school graduating class at a Texas high school, UT-Austin must accept you. I know there are guidance counselors there who have told students, “If you want to go to Austin, perhaps you should transfer to that high school across town where you’ll easily be in the top 10% for your senior year, rather than spend your time in this elite school and finish at the 16th percentile.”
There are downsides to that sort of arrangement. Long ago, when I went to UT-Austin for graduate school, there was a law that said if you graduated from a Texas state undergraduate school with a degree in <X> then UT-Austin had to accept you into the graduate program in <X>. As a result, the incoming graduate classes were overcrowded with people who had no business being there. So, (at least in the math department) one mandatory graduate class each year was taught as a fail-out course. The professor was told to make it as difficult to pass as possible without being subject to reversal by the dean (the department chair was in on it). They didn’t fail me out, but they did chase me out of the program.
(I had to go through an interview with the dean of the graduate college in order to transfer to a different department that wanted me. I told him exactly why I was moving, and he gave a big sigh, and nodded his head. “We lose too many good people who won’t put up with that shit,” he said.)
The student at the school that cannot offer AP courses will be disadvantaged in their application process relative to the student who does have access even though the first is performing at the same or higher level than the second.
I believe that it’s Texas (and possibly another state) that has established a rule that if you are in the top 10% of your high school graduating class at a Texas high school, UT-Austin must accept you. I know there are guidance counselors there who have told students, “If you want to go to Austin, perhaps you should transfer to that high school across town where you’ll easily be in the top 10% for your senior year, rather than spend your time in this elite school and finish at the 16th percentile.”
There are downsides to that sort of arrangement. Long ago, when I went to UT-Austin for graduate school, there was a law that said if you graduated from a Texas state undergraduate school with a degree in <X> then UT-Austin had to accept you into the graduate program in <X>. As a result, the incoming graduate classes were overcrowded with people who had no business being there. So, (at least in the math department) one mandatory graduate class each year was taught as a fail-out course. The professor was told to make it as difficult to pass as possible without being subject to reversal by the dean (the department chair was in on it). They didn’t fail me out, but they did chase me out of the program.
(I had to go through an interview with the dean of the graduate college in order to transfer to a different department that wanted me. I told him exactly why I was moving, and he gave a big sigh, and nodded his head. “We lose too many good people who won’t put up with that shit,” he said.)
Happens a lot with different popular programs and majors, Michael Cain. The Bio Sci majors here go through a huge winnowing between lower and upper division undergraduate courses because they only keep so many tenured research professors in the department and hire contract lecturers to teach to the much larger number of admissions. I’ve steered a lot of good students into other adjacent majors and disciplines that don’t have the same admissions catalog sizzle.
It’s what happens when the state treats the university as a benefit for their constituents and the administrators treat the university as a tuition seeking business. Makes it hard for those of us who treat it as an engine of civic empowerment.
Happens a lot with different popular programs and majors, Michael Cain. The Bio Sci majors here go through a huge winnowing between lower and upper division undergraduate courses because they only keep so many tenured research professors in the department and hire contract lecturers to teach to the much larger number of admissions. I’ve steered a lot of good students into other adjacent majors and disciplines that don’t have the same admissions catalog sizzle.
It’s what happens when the state treats the university as a benefit for their constituents and the administrators treat the university as a tuition seeking business. Makes it hard for those of us who treat it as an engine of civic empowerment.
Lots of things have changed, and this may be one. However, when I was in school it was not super uncommon for someone to change majors between undergraduate and graduate school.
In fact, there seemed to be some preference in graduate admissions for students who would bring “a different perspective” from a different undergrad major. If faced with an overcrowded undergrad major, someone who knew the system could take a different major (while taking all the major required classes), and then shift for grad school.
Lots of things have changed, and this may be one. However, when I was in school it was not super uncommon for someone to change majors between undergraduate and graduate school.
In fact, there seemed to be some preference in graduate admissions for students who would bring “a different perspective” from a different undergrad major. If faced with an overcrowded undergrad major, someone who knew the system could take a different major (while taking all the major required classes), and then shift for grad school.
How open to undergrads outside of the major depends a lot these days on the school (in the “within the university” sense) and how chauvinistic the admissions committee is. Business schools think that they are top dog and all other majors are inferior, but they are not averse to taking anyone’s money if they have room. Hard sciences mostly want people with a continuous focus. Med schools are increasingly looking for people with diverse backgrounds and not just a focus on Bio Sci.
Humanities are looking for students who can make it through quickly and who are good safe fits for a brutal academic job market, but will take anyone interested and qualified who has the resources to do it with no money from the department.
The rest are looking for people that fit their research interests, whatever the background.
And in all cases, the emphasis is going to be on research, professional, or alternative academic placement after graduation. No one should count on becoming a professor after they finish. That’s not how anything works anymore.
How open to undergrads outside of the major depends a lot these days on the school (in the “within the university” sense) and how chauvinistic the admissions committee is. Business schools think that they are top dog and all other majors are inferior, but they are not averse to taking anyone’s money if they have room. Hard sciences mostly want people with a continuous focus. Med schools are increasingly looking for people with diverse backgrounds and not just a focus on Bio Sci.
Humanities are looking for students who can make it through quickly and who are good safe fits for a brutal academic job market, but will take anyone interested and qualified who has the resources to do it with no money from the department.
The rest are looking for people that fit their research interests, whatever the background.
And in all cases, the emphasis is going to be on research, professional, or alternative academic placement after graduation. No one should count on becoming a professor after they finish. That’s not how anything works anymore.
Lots of things have changed, and this may be one. However, when I was in school it was not super uncommon for someone to change majors between undergraduate and graduate school.
Why that was (and I believe continues to be) is an interesting question. The argument about bringing in different perspectives is one oft stated reason, but another was that grad schools are constantly fighting for students, so for them to say ‘we only take people who graduated from X’ is basically economically shackling the school. This is true even with majors where the supply of undergrads is quite high, getting a bigger intake to fight it out makes economic sense. This also protects schools from claims of discrimination, by tokenizing the outliers, thereby immunizing the department but also allowing them to basically keep the process for admissions evaluation unchanged. Cynic that I am, I think the order of things is probably 2>1>3
Also related to this is the news of the University of Austin
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/americas-going-fascist-because-our-universities-are-totalitarian-hellholes
I post the LGM link, but if you have the stomach for it, click on the substack link in the post.
Lots of things have changed, and this may be one. However, when I was in school it was not super uncommon for someone to change majors between undergraduate and graduate school.
Why that was (and I believe continues to be) is an interesting question. The argument about bringing in different perspectives is one oft stated reason, but another was that grad schools are constantly fighting for students, so for them to say ‘we only take people who graduated from X’ is basically economically shackling the school. This is true even with majors where the supply of undergrads is quite high, getting a bigger intake to fight it out makes economic sense. This also protects schools from claims of discrimination, by tokenizing the outliers, thereby immunizing the department but also allowing them to basically keep the process for admissions evaluation unchanged. Cynic that I am, I think the order of things is probably 2>1>3
Also related to this is the news of the University of Austin
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/11/americas-going-fascist-because-our-universities-are-totalitarian-hellholes
I post the LGM link, but if you have the stomach for it, click on the substack link in the post.
This is good–
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/11/opinion/reagan-social-welfare.html
It wasn’t just Reagan–there was a whole movement back then, Milton Friedman being one of the leading intellectual supporters of it, arguing that government was bad. And Democrats in the Clinton era bought into part of it.
This is good–
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/11/opinion/reagan-social-welfare.html
It wasn’t just Reagan–there was a whole movement back then, Milton Friedman being one of the leading intellectual supporters of it, arguing that government was bad. And Democrats in the Clinton era bought into part of it.
“It wasn’t just Reagan–there was a whole movement back then, Milton Friedman being one of the leading intellectual supporters of it, arguing that government was bad. And Democrats in the Clinton era bought into part of it.”
It was bitterly too late in the day, except for locking and loading, in 1859 to review the mortal subhuman threat of the Confederacy to America as well and say, “Wowza, did ya know that vermin cracker conservative John Calhoun was up to his ears in the coming savage Civil War?”
And Democrats are still triangulating the ransom payments and paying out the rope to hang themselves and us to sooth the subhuman fascist conservative movement.
lj’s link is instructional at least for reiterating how the crypto- fascist so called “Christian right” is going to murder all of its enemies, with mealy-mouthed simp Rod Dreher looking on with precious disapproval when the killers are prosecuted.
Kinda like a member of the ground crew at Hickam Field, adjacent to Pearl Harbor, pausing as he places the chocks under the landing gear of a reconnaissance plane, and looking up into the sky darkened by enemy death merchants and asking, “Golly, lookitat, Mac .. whaddya s’pose?”
It’s too late.
There will never be another free election in America.
The pig vermin conservative Supreme Court will validate Kyle Rittenhouse’s practice of carrying weaponry in public to fucking murder us on the way to the polls.
“It wasn’t just Reagan–there was a whole movement back then, Milton Friedman being one of the leading intellectual supporters of it, arguing that government was bad. And Democrats in the Clinton era bought into part of it.”
It was bitterly too late in the day, except for locking and loading, in 1859 to review the mortal subhuman threat of the Confederacy to America as well and say, “Wowza, did ya know that vermin cracker conservative John Calhoun was up to his ears in the coming savage Civil War?”
And Democrats are still triangulating the ransom payments and paying out the rope to hang themselves and us to sooth the subhuman fascist conservative movement.
lj’s link is instructional at least for reiterating how the crypto- fascist so called “Christian right” is going to murder all of its enemies, with mealy-mouthed simp Rod Dreher looking on with precious disapproval when the killers are prosecuted.
Kinda like a member of the ground crew at Hickam Field, adjacent to Pearl Harbor, pausing as he places the chocks under the landing gear of a reconnaissance plane, and looking up into the sky darkened by enemy death merchants and asking, “Golly, lookitat, Mac .. whaddya s’pose?”
It’s too late.
There will never be another free election in America.
The pig vermin conservative Supreme Court will validate Kyle Rittenhouse’s practice of carrying weaponry in public to fucking murder us on the way to the polls.
More on the moron who unseated the NJ Senate President. Also the sad state of local news coverage.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/how-the-media-missed-a-new-jersey-senate-candidates-racist-social-media-posts-until-hed-already-won/?amp=1
More on the moron who unseated the NJ Senate President. Also the sad state of local news coverage.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/how-the-media-missed-a-new-jersey-senate-candidates-racist-social-media-posts-until-hed-already-won/?amp=1
The moron is not a truck driver.
He is a racist conservative movement truckbomb driver.
The moron is not a truck driver.
He is a racist conservative movement truckbomb driver.
Sprichst du Deutsch?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/10/2063627/-Why-Violence-is-the-Language-of-the-Evangelical
Hallowed be thy bullet wounds.
I’m for both sides doing it.
Sprichst du Deutsch?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/10/2063627/-Why-Violence-is-the-Language-of-the-Evangelical
Hallowed be thy bullet wounds.
I’m for both sides doing it.
The pig vermin conservative Supreme Court will validate Kyle Rittenhouse’s practice of carrying weaponry in public to fucking murder us on the way to the polls.
To say that Rittenhouse made a practice of carrying in public is to buy in to his defense. In fact, he didn’t routinely carry a rifle in public. On the occasion in question he picked up his AR-15, drove across state lines, looking for an excuse to shoot somebody. Whole different deal.
The pig vermin conservative Supreme Court will validate Kyle Rittenhouse’s practice of carrying weaponry in public to fucking murder us on the way to the polls.
To say that Rittenhouse made a practice of carrying in public is to buy in to his defense. In fact, he didn’t routinely carry a rifle in public. On the occasion in question he picked up his AR-15, drove across state lines, looking for an excuse to shoot somebody. Whole different deal.
How quickly things become routine. Going through my usual news sources this morning, one would never know that SpaceX successfully launched another crew headed to the ISS last night. I believe this was the 24th Falcon 9 launch of the year. Meanwhile, Boeing has indefinitely delayed the next uncrewed launch of their capsule, saying only that they hope to be ready by mid-2022.
How quickly things become routine. Going through my usual news sources this morning, one would never know that SpaceX successfully launched another crew headed to the ISS last night. I believe this was the 24th Falcon 9 launch of the year. Meanwhile, Boeing has indefinitely delayed the next uncrewed launch of their capsule, saying only that they hope to be ready by mid-2022.
On the occasion in question he picked up his AR-15, drove across state lines
just a nit… the story is that Rittenhouse didn’t bring it across state lines. his friend, who bought it for him (since Rittenhouse was underage at the time), kept the gun at his house in Kenosha. Rittenhouse and his friend grabbed their guns from his friend’s house and went hippy hunting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/us/rittenhouse-trial-semiautomatic-rifle.html
On the occasion in question he picked up his AR-15, drove across state lines
just a nit… the story is that Rittenhouse didn’t bring it across state lines. his friend, who bought it for him (since Rittenhouse was underage at the time), kept the gun at his house in Kenosha. Rittenhouse and his friend grabbed their guns from his friend’s house and went hippy hunting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/us/rittenhouse-trial-semiautomatic-rifle.html
So what you’re saying is that he did just as I said, albeit in a different order. Got it.
But it still runs counter to the Count’s suggestion that Rittenhouse made a practice of carrying his gun around. This was a one time, just for shooting people, effort.
So what you’re saying is that he did just as I said, albeit in a different order. Got it.
But it still runs counter to the Count’s suggestion that Rittenhouse made a practice of carrying his gun around. This was a one time, just for shooting people, effort.
So what you’re saying is that he did just as I said, albeit in a different order. Got it.
i’m not sure if you do or not.
there is a widely-held misconception that Rittenhouse brought the gun with him, across state lines, in order to kill someone. the implication being that there is something illegal about doing that (i don’t know if there is or isn’t).
for example, BBC:
and what you wrote echoes that, if you meant it or not.
but the gun didn’t leave the state. the gun stayed in Kenosha, MO, the site of the riot, from the time of its illegal purchase till the time Rittenhouse killed someone with it.
So what you’re saying is that he did just as I said, albeit in a different order. Got it.
i’m not sure if you do or not.
there is a widely-held misconception that Rittenhouse brought the gun with him, across state lines, in order to kill someone. the implication being that there is something illegal about doing that (i don’t know if there is or isn’t).
for example, BBC:
and what you wrote echoes that, if you meant it or not.
but the gun didn’t leave the state. the gun stayed in Kenosha, MO, the site of the riot, from the time of its illegal purchase till the time Rittenhouse killed someone with it.
I wasn’t commenting on whether Rittenhouse illegally transported a gun across state lines. Or whether or not he obtained it illegally.
The point was, he isn’t someone who routinely carried the gun to protect himself. Which is the core of his defense. Rather, he took in hand the gun, perhaps for the first time (although that isn’t critical), and set forth exactly because he was looking to shoot someone.
I wasn’t commenting on whether Rittenhouse illegally transported a gun across state lines. Or whether or not he obtained it illegally.
The point was, he isn’t someone who routinely carried the gun to protect himself. Which is the core of his defense. Rather, he took in hand the gun, perhaps for the first time (although that isn’t critical), and set forth exactly because he was looking to shoot someone.
gotcha.
indeed. he went looking for trouble. found it. and is now trying to blame someone else.
gotcha.
indeed. he went looking for trouble. found it. and is now trying to blame someone else.
Gotta admit, it’s so typical of his hero. If anything fails, must be someone else’s fault. All he’s lacking (AFACT) is a conspiracy against him.
Gotta admit, it’s so typical of his hero. If anything fails, must be someone else’s fault. All he’s lacking (AFACT) is a conspiracy against him.
Rittenhouse is a cop wanna-be and a kid with naive ideas about good guys and bad guys. He got himself into a situation he should never have been in and now his life is basically FUBAR.
My prediction is that he walks, which is going to spark a whole other round of angry response. And he’ll be embraced by the whole right-wing puke funnel, who will applaud his actions as heroic. And he’ll eat that up, because he’s a naive kid.
And I don’t say “naive” to excuse him, I say it to mean that his understanding of the world is simplistic and unrealistic.
Or, he’ll go to jail, and that will fnck him up for sure.
His mom is a freaking idiot. The guy whose car lot he went to Kenosha to guard is an idiot and a slimeball, putting out the call for militia assistance, and then disavowing any responsibility for anything that happened. His militia buddy that was granting all the interviews after the whole sorry mess went down is an idiot for not telling him to go the hell home.
He’s a dumb-ass kid with romantic ideas of being a hero and fncked up fantasies of shooting people. And now he’s shot people and killed two of them, and he’s got himself chained to both the Kafkaesque criminal justice system and the Fox News propaganda factory.
There should have been some adult in his orbit with the intelligence and basic sense of responsibility to tell him to put the gun away and go home. There was not. So now he’ll reap the reward of living his fncked up fantasies.
The judge in his trial is a piece of work.
The sickest thing in all of this, to me, is the unending commentary from all the folks who think shooting other people is the greatest sport on earth.
This country has problems that are not amenable to a political solution.
Rittenhouse is a cop wanna-be and a kid with naive ideas about good guys and bad guys. He got himself into a situation he should never have been in and now his life is basically FUBAR.
My prediction is that he walks, which is going to spark a whole other round of angry response. And he’ll be embraced by the whole right-wing puke funnel, who will applaud his actions as heroic. And he’ll eat that up, because he’s a naive kid.
And I don’t say “naive” to excuse him, I say it to mean that his understanding of the world is simplistic and unrealistic.
Or, he’ll go to jail, and that will fnck him up for sure.
His mom is a freaking idiot. The guy whose car lot he went to Kenosha to guard is an idiot and a slimeball, putting out the call for militia assistance, and then disavowing any responsibility for anything that happened. His militia buddy that was granting all the interviews after the whole sorry mess went down is an idiot for not telling him to go the hell home.
He’s a dumb-ass kid with romantic ideas of being a hero and fncked up fantasies of shooting people. And now he’s shot people and killed two of them, and he’s got himself chained to both the Kafkaesque criminal justice system and the Fox News propaganda factory.
There should have been some adult in his orbit with the intelligence and basic sense of responsibility to tell him to put the gun away and go home. There was not. So now he’ll reap the reward of living his fncked up fantasies.
The judge in his trial is a piece of work.
The sickest thing in all of this, to me, is the unending commentary from all the folks who think shooting other people is the greatest sport on earth.
This country has problems that are not amenable to a political solution.
The judge in his trial is a piece of work.
The prosecutor and the defense attorney haven’t wrapped themselves in glory either.
The judge in his trial is a piece of work.
The prosecutor and the defense attorney haven’t wrapped themselves in glory either.
a kid with naive ideas about good guys and bad guys.
If he were a kid, that might be an excuse. Although I know a lot of kids in their mid-teens (or younger) who are a lot more mature. But he’s not a kid; he’s an adult.
a kid with naive ideas about good guys and bad guys.
If he were a kid, that might be an excuse. Although I know a lot of kids in their mid-teens (or younger) who are a lot more mature. But he’s not a kid; he’s an adult.
Rittenhouse is suffering from a bad case of anxious masculinity a la Josh Hawley:
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/11/1054615028/is-masculinity-under-attack-sen-hawley-wants-to-defend-the-men-of-america
This strain of MRA bullshit went mainstream a decade ago, fueled by a bunch of scared straight boys who mistook Fight Club for a manifesto of manliness rather than a meditation on homosexuality. It’s a pretty fraught borderline at the best of times, but the boys having a hard time changing to meet the new demands of equality saw themselves as the heroes and missed out entirely on the irony and the subtext.
So now we have the anxious and aggrieved trying to prove their masculine bona fides with redemptive violence – sheepdog against wolves style. Looking for pats on the head and a “who’s a good boy?” from their demagogue idols.
It can be broken, but that takes courage and strength (which are in short supply among the anxious) and compassion and awareness (which are critically endangered).
I expect more violence instead. This fantasy has a death wish.
Rittenhouse is suffering from a bad case of anxious masculinity a la Josh Hawley:
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/11/1054615028/is-masculinity-under-attack-sen-hawley-wants-to-defend-the-men-of-america
This strain of MRA bullshit went mainstream a decade ago, fueled by a bunch of scared straight boys who mistook Fight Club for a manifesto of manliness rather than a meditation on homosexuality. It’s a pretty fraught borderline at the best of times, but the boys having a hard time changing to meet the new demands of equality saw themselves as the heroes and missed out entirely on the irony and the subtext.
So now we have the anxious and aggrieved trying to prove their masculine bona fides with redemptive violence – sheepdog against wolves style. Looking for pats on the head and a “who’s a good boy?” from their demagogue idols.
It can be broken, but that takes courage and strength (which are in short supply among the anxious) and compassion and awareness (which are critically endangered).
I expect more violence instead. This fantasy has a death wish.
So far as I can see, which may not be very far, Rittenhouse has a valid defence in law that he shot his victims because he was in mortal fear of them. How could the prosecution prove he wasn’t?
Which is to say, US law is fubar. In a rational world, turning up at a demonstration with a semiautomatic rifle and shooting people with it would be a serious crime however scared you are of them.
So far as I can see, which may not be very far, Rittenhouse has a valid defence in law that he shot his victims because he was in mortal fear of them. How could the prosecution prove he wasn’t?
Which is to say, US law is fubar. In a rational world, turning up at a demonstration with a semiautomatic rifle and shooting people with it would be a serious crime however scared you are of them.
So far as I can see, which may not be very far, Rittenhouse has a valid defence in law that he shot his victims because he was in mortal fear of them. How could the prosecution prove he wasn’t?
IANAL, but it seems to me that the prosecution could make a decent case that the people he claims were attacking him were merely acting in self defense. That is, they were in mortal fear of him. And with far better cause than he had — after all, he was the one waving a gun around.
So far as I can see, which may not be very far, Rittenhouse has a valid defence in law that he shot his victims because he was in mortal fear of them. How could the prosecution prove he wasn’t?
IANAL, but it seems to me that the prosecution could make a decent case that the people he claims were attacking him were merely acting in self defense. That is, they were in mortal fear of him. And with far better cause than he had — after all, he was the one waving a gun around.
If he were a kid, that might be an excuse. Although I know a lot of kids in their mid-teens (or younger) who are a lot more mature.
Yup.
But he’s not a kid; he’s an adult.
By the standards of law, yes, he is. And so he will be tried as such.
Bon chance to him. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna walk. There is a brilliant career ahead of him as a conservative and/or gun cultist mascot, if he wants it.
He’ll probably want it. The alternative is recognizing and acknowledging that he fncked up and waded into a situation that was miles and miles over his head and pay grade, which in turn would put him at the mercy of the court.
Going with 2nd A hero is his best shot at staying out of jail.
Which is to say, US law is fubar. In a rational world, turning up at a demonstration with a semiautomatic rifle and shooting people with it would be a serious crime however scared you are of them.
Yup, to all of it.
Underage dude crosses state lines to pick up a semi-automatic rifle from his buddy who bought it for him, and which he would otherwise not legally be allowed to carry. He goes to Kenosha to guard a guy’s used car lot.
The car lot guy put out the call to local militia to show up and stand guard, but now says he never did any such thing. No idea what those folks were doing there, although he did pose for a selfie.
You could make a drinking game out of the CYA moments in this saga.
Underage kid gets separated from the rest of his crew and, unsurprisingly, gets into some kind of conflict with protestor dude. Protestor dude ends up chasing him, throws a bag at him.
Note well: *throws a bag at him*. A bag.
Kid shoots protestor dude.
Kid runs away. Other protestors chase him, because he just shot and killed a guy. One guy tries to hit him with a skateboard. He shoots two of them, killing one.
Kid walks away, in the process passing a bunch of cops who apparently say hey, whatever.
FUBAR doesn’t begin to cover it.
This country has problems that are not amenable to a political solution. In fact, the inability – the insufficiency – of our political institutions to address them is, in itself, one of the problems.
If he were a kid, that might be an excuse. Although I know a lot of kids in their mid-teens (or younger) who are a lot more mature.
Yup.
But he’s not a kid; he’s an adult.
By the standards of law, yes, he is. And so he will be tried as such.
Bon chance to him. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna walk. There is a brilliant career ahead of him as a conservative and/or gun cultist mascot, if he wants it.
He’ll probably want it. The alternative is recognizing and acknowledging that he fncked up and waded into a situation that was miles and miles over his head and pay grade, which in turn would put him at the mercy of the court.
Going with 2nd A hero is his best shot at staying out of jail.
Which is to say, US law is fubar. In a rational world, turning up at a demonstration with a semiautomatic rifle and shooting people with it would be a serious crime however scared you are of them.
Yup, to all of it.
Underage dude crosses state lines to pick up a semi-automatic rifle from his buddy who bought it for him, and which he would otherwise not legally be allowed to carry. He goes to Kenosha to guard a guy’s used car lot.
The car lot guy put out the call to local militia to show up and stand guard, but now says he never did any such thing. No idea what those folks were doing there, although he did pose for a selfie.
You could make a drinking game out of the CYA moments in this saga.
Underage kid gets separated from the rest of his crew and, unsurprisingly, gets into some kind of conflict with protestor dude. Protestor dude ends up chasing him, throws a bag at him.
Note well: *throws a bag at him*. A bag.
Kid shoots protestor dude.
Kid runs away. Other protestors chase him, because he just shot and killed a guy. One guy tries to hit him with a skateboard. He shoots two of them, killing one.
Kid walks away, in the process passing a bunch of cops who apparently say hey, whatever.
FUBAR doesn’t begin to cover it.
This country has problems that are not amenable to a political solution. In fact, the inability – the insufficiency – of our political institutions to address them is, in itself, one of the problems.
The political institutions in the US were designed with the idea of protocol in mind. The institution works so long as everyone involved agrees to play nice and not cheat. The checks and balances work so long as they actually check and balance each other.
But the only institutional mechanism for adjusting the rules to keep things balanced are themselves out of balance.
There is good reason why the US does not export its own system of governance to the places in which it attempts nation building. It’s not a very good set of rules.
Principles? Yes. Good principles. Rules? No.
We will never get our country back. We may get a functional nation state again, but I don’t think that will happen by the unbalanced suddenly regaining their senses and returning to protocol.
The political institutions in the US were designed with the idea of protocol in mind. The institution works so long as everyone involved agrees to play nice and not cheat. The checks and balances work so long as they actually check and balance each other.
But the only institutional mechanism for adjusting the rules to keep things balanced are themselves out of balance.
There is good reason why the US does not export its own system of governance to the places in which it attempts nation building. It’s not a very good set of rules.
Principles? Yes. Good principles. Rules? No.
We will never get our country back. We may get a functional nation state again, but I don’t think that will happen by the unbalanced suddenly regaining their senses and returning to protocol.
The institution works so long as everyone involved agrees to play nice and not cheat.
The fatal flaw.
By my lights, about 1/3 of the country is barking mad, and about 1/2 the country is ok with 1/3 of the country being barking mad as long as their personal apple cart is not upset.
If “barking mad” seems harsh, ask yourself “who won the 2020 election for POTUS”. If your reply is not Joe Biden, without qualification, you’re detached from reality.
You’re barking mad.
And that is just one of many, many utterly delusional narratives that millions – tens of millions, at least a hundred million – people embrace as if it were some kind of natural law.
A truly disturbing number of people here fervently believe things that are simply not true. As in, as a matter of simple provable fact, they are false.
They have deep personal investment in believing these untrue things.
It is beyond my power or the power of anyone I can think of to walk any of that back.
Too many people have given themselves over to insanity. There are enough of them that is has become self-reinforcing.
There is no political solution to that. People need to change themselves, personally and profoundly.
I don’t see that happening short of some kind of colossal train wreck. It’s not something I’m looking forward to.
I’m glad to be old. Barring profound calamity – which I do not rule out – my wife and I have enough to get us through the rest of our lives. Enough savings, enough friends, enough community, enough interests. We’re basically healthy. We’ll get through the next 10 or 20 years, and then we’ll fold our mortal tents and head off into whatever comes next.
I’m grateful for that. I’m not sure I want to see what this place looks like a generation from now.
The institution works so long as everyone involved agrees to play nice and not cheat.
The fatal flaw.
By my lights, about 1/3 of the country is barking mad, and about 1/2 the country is ok with 1/3 of the country being barking mad as long as their personal apple cart is not upset.
If “barking mad” seems harsh, ask yourself “who won the 2020 election for POTUS”. If your reply is not Joe Biden, without qualification, you’re detached from reality.
You’re barking mad.
And that is just one of many, many utterly delusional narratives that millions – tens of millions, at least a hundred million – people embrace as if it were some kind of natural law.
A truly disturbing number of people here fervently believe things that are simply not true. As in, as a matter of simple provable fact, they are false.
They have deep personal investment in believing these untrue things.
It is beyond my power or the power of anyone I can think of to walk any of that back.
Too many people have given themselves over to insanity. There are enough of them that is has become self-reinforcing.
There is no political solution to that. People need to change themselves, personally and profoundly.
I don’t see that happening short of some kind of colossal train wreck. It’s not something I’m looking forward to.
I’m glad to be old. Barring profound calamity – which I do not rule out – my wife and I have enough to get us through the rest of our lives. Enough savings, enough friends, enough community, enough interests. We’re basically healthy. We’ll get through the next 10 or 20 years, and then we’ll fold our mortal tents and head off into whatever comes next.
I’m grateful for that. I’m not sure I want to see what this place looks like a generation from now.
Here is the deal:
Kyle Rittenhouse thought it would be cool to get a gun and a medic kit and go play militia man.
He walked into a chaotic, charged environment. It was scary. He was scared, because it was scary.
He didn’t have the maturity or personal skill set to deal with all of that, so he responded to being scared by shooting a guy who chased him and threw a bag at him. Then when other people chased him *because he had just shot and killed a guy who threw a bag at him*, he shot two more people and killed one of them.
He is a fucking idiot. He is an immature naive man-child.
And he’ll walk, because carrying a gun into a chaotic violent protest and then shooting people because you’re scared counts as self-defense here in the USA.
“I was scared so I shot him”. It’s a get out of jail free card around here.
Here is the deal:
Kyle Rittenhouse thought it would be cool to get a gun and a medic kit and go play militia man.
He walked into a chaotic, charged environment. It was scary. He was scared, because it was scary.
He didn’t have the maturity or personal skill set to deal with all of that, so he responded to being scared by shooting a guy who chased him and threw a bag at him. Then when other people chased him *because he had just shot and killed a guy who threw a bag at him*, he shot two more people and killed one of them.
He is a fucking idiot. He is an immature naive man-child.
And he’ll walk, because carrying a gun into a chaotic violent protest and then shooting people because you’re scared counts as self-defense here in the USA.
“I was scared so I shot him”. It’s a get out of jail free card around here.
By my lights, about 1/3 of the country is barking mad, and about 1/2 the country is ok with 1/3 of the country being barking mad as long as their personal apple cart is not upset.
Agreed, things are bad. But not, I think, quite that bad. More like 20%-25% barking mad, and 30%** OK with that. Which is why, these days, the sociopathic party can sometimes squeek past 50%, but mostly doesn’t. (Except locally.)
The interesting question, to my mind, is: Has it always been so? If so, how did we avoid the downsides we are seeing now? If not, what caused it this time?
** I’m working on figures for those who can, at least occasionally, be bothered to vote. Those who can’t may count as indifferent, but don’t figure in determining how bad things will, or won’t, get.
By my lights, about 1/3 of the country is barking mad, and about 1/2 the country is ok with 1/3 of the country being barking mad as long as their personal apple cart is not upset.
Agreed, things are bad. But not, I think, quite that bad. More like 20%-25% barking mad, and 30%** OK with that. Which is why, these days, the sociopathic party can sometimes squeek past 50%, but mostly doesn’t. (Except locally.)
The interesting question, to my mind, is: Has it always been so? If so, how did we avoid the downsides we are seeing now? If not, what caused it this time?
** I’m working on figures for those who can, at least occasionally, be bothered to vote. Those who can’t may count as indifferent, but don’t figure in determining how bad things will, or won’t, get.
“But not, I think, quite that bad.”
Zeno had his paradoxes.
“But not, I think, quite that bad.”
Zeno had his paradoxes.
Has it always been so?
it’s always, or nearly always, been contentious. and we – Americans – have always been violent.
what I think is unique about this moment is:
1. extreme cult of personality, i.e. the adoration of Trump
2. the embrace of truly bizarre paranoid fantasies
we’ve had the paranoia before – Palmer Raids, Red Scare, black men want to rape white women, etc. – but I can’t think of anything as plainly bizarre as the stuff I hear regularly from Trump supporters.
We don’t just disagree, this is hardly even a political division.
We don’t share the same reality, and the gap between the real world and the world they inhabit seems unbridgeable.
Has it always been so?
it’s always, or nearly always, been contentious. and we – Americans – have always been violent.
what I think is unique about this moment is:
1. extreme cult of personality, i.e. the adoration of Trump
2. the embrace of truly bizarre paranoid fantasies
we’ve had the paranoia before – Palmer Raids, Red Scare, black men want to rape white women, etc. – but I can’t think of anything as plainly bizarre as the stuff I hear regularly from Trump supporters.
We don’t just disagree, this is hardly even a political division.
We don’t share the same reality, and the gap between the real world and the world they inhabit seems unbridgeable.
ok, let’s have some comic relief.
via TPM, Proud Boy and all-around right-wing knucklehead street brawler gets a restraining order to stop an anti-fascist reporter from Tweeting about him.
Brave Sir Robin!!
Wankers.
ok, let’s have some comic relief.
via TPM, Proud Boy and all-around right-wing knucklehead street brawler gets a restraining order to stop an anti-fascist reporter from Tweeting about him.
Brave Sir Robin!!
Wankers.
George Zimmerman 2.0. Start the story in the middle and you become the victim.
George Zimmerman 2.0. Start the story in the middle and you become the victim.
“ok, let’s have some comic relief.”
This reminds of when Johnny Carson’s opening monologue jokes were falling a bit flat and he’d cue Doc and the band and break into a little soft shoe.
But I’ll play along.
This is funny, for some strained value of “funny”:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/11/josh-hawley-war-on-men/620683/
I don’t think the (excuse me now as I now fall into the language patterns of the aggrieved conservative boy-cult activated by vermin Trump) sissy knucklehead street brawler, who, along with other subhuman conservatives call Hillary Clinton the “c” word, could take on Hawley in a bitch-slap fight, Hawley’s girlish figure looking so good in his tailored insurrectionist clown suit.
When I meet Hawley, I’m going to ask him … once nicely … to take that suit off in public and hand it over to me. We’ll see if his right hand in his pocket is fondling his tiny wanker dick or readying the concealed weapon the Supreme Court will give him to kill me, but punk Hawley going to die laughing.
There is talk of Hawley’s “brand” in the article. I’m going to brand him until he thinks he’s a moo-cow headed for market in a cattle drive.
This is funny.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/11/2063844/-Outrage-over-SNL-s-mean-impression-of-Boebert-Problem-The-clips-are-of-her-just-talking
Notice the racial and gender mix of the dumb hoodwinked men and women on the street as they can’t differentiate between an actor inside a Ronald McDonald clown suit and a murderous genocidal clown, Boebert, (duly elected by the same innocent-faced dummies) who is giving John Wayne Gacy a run for his money in the floppy shoe contest down at the local funny farm.
Obviously, the evil conservative clown bacilli has infected many more of the American population than wj’s endless low balling of the existential threat to the human race from the worldwide conservative brand might credit. %-)
Remember this:
https://time.com/4518456/scary-clown-sighting-attack-craze/
Those clowns, still with us in zombie multitudes, ran for office and succeeded in killing America, because who can resist a quick squirt of acid in the eye from a sad clown?
It will end badly this time around too:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/caesars-employee-allegedly-shoots-kills-man-clown-mask/story?id=55483144
This calls for an hour of silence interrupted occasionally by a laugh track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGroZXx2eGM
To save time, go directly to the king of the laugh track, Desi Arnaz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJevnyZzfKg
“ok, let’s have some comic relief.”
This reminds of when Johnny Carson’s opening monologue jokes were falling a bit flat and he’d cue Doc and the band and break into a little soft shoe.
But I’ll play along.
This is funny, for some strained value of “funny”:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/11/josh-hawley-war-on-men/620683/
I don’t think the (excuse me now as I now fall into the language patterns of the aggrieved conservative boy-cult activated by vermin Trump) sissy knucklehead street brawler, who, along with other subhuman conservatives call Hillary Clinton the “c” word, could take on Hawley in a bitch-slap fight, Hawley’s girlish figure looking so good in his tailored insurrectionist clown suit.
When I meet Hawley, I’m going to ask him … once nicely … to take that suit off in public and hand it over to me. We’ll see if his right hand in his pocket is fondling his tiny wanker dick or readying the concealed weapon the Supreme Court will give him to kill me, but punk Hawley going to die laughing.
There is talk of Hawley’s “brand” in the article. I’m going to brand him until he thinks he’s a moo-cow headed for market in a cattle drive.
This is funny.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/11/2063844/-Outrage-over-SNL-s-mean-impression-of-Boebert-Problem-The-clips-are-of-her-just-talking
Notice the racial and gender mix of the dumb hoodwinked men and women on the street as they can’t differentiate between an actor inside a Ronald McDonald clown suit and a murderous genocidal clown, Boebert, (duly elected by the same innocent-faced dummies) who is giving John Wayne Gacy a run for his money in the floppy shoe contest down at the local funny farm.
Obviously, the evil conservative clown bacilli has infected many more of the American population than wj’s endless low balling of the existential threat to the human race from the worldwide conservative brand might credit. %-)
Remember this:
https://time.com/4518456/scary-clown-sighting-attack-craze/
Those clowns, still with us in zombie multitudes, ran for office and succeeded in killing America, because who can resist a quick squirt of acid in the eye from a sad clown?
It will end badly this time around too:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/caesars-employee-allegedly-shoots-kills-man-clown-mask/story?id=55483144
This calls for an hour of silence interrupted occasionally by a laugh track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGroZXx2eGM
To save time, go directly to the king of the laugh track, Desi Arnaz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJevnyZzfKg
russell: If “barking mad” seems harsh, ask yourself “who won the 2020 election for POTUS”.
If your reply is not Joe Biden, without qualification, you’re detached from reality.
You’re barking mad.
And that is just one of many, many utterly delusional narratives that millions – tens of millions, at least a hundred million – people embrace as if it were some kind of natural law.
A truly disturbing number of people here fervently believe things that are simply not true. As in, as a matter of simple provable fact, they are false.
They have deep personal investment in believing these untrue things.
It is beyond my power or the power of anyone I can think of to walk any of that back.
The problem isn’t just believing false things. Even more people believe that back in the depths of history a woman in a little village in what is now Israel conceived a child without the involvement of a human male, and that the child grew up, roused rabble, was executed, died, and rose from the dead.
And was “God.”
Those beliefs have caused a lot of ruckus and bloodshed too, admittedly, but that people hold them raises almost no eyebrows in our culture today.
Someone gave me this link a couple of nights ago, allegedly (I haven’t verified) the words of Dietrich Bonhoeffer on stupidity. It was as if he wrote it for us right now, and sheds light from a different angle on our challenges, an angle that I think is apt in relation to a lot of discussions we’ve had here.
russell: If “barking mad” seems harsh, ask yourself “who won the 2020 election for POTUS”.
If your reply is not Joe Biden, without qualification, you’re detached from reality.
You’re barking mad.
And that is just one of many, many utterly delusional narratives that millions – tens of millions, at least a hundred million – people embrace as if it were some kind of natural law.
A truly disturbing number of people here fervently believe things that are simply not true. As in, as a matter of simple provable fact, they are false.
They have deep personal investment in believing these untrue things.
It is beyond my power or the power of anyone I can think of to walk any of that back.
The problem isn’t just believing false things. Even more people believe that back in the depths of history a woman in a little village in what is now Israel conceived a child without the involvement of a human male, and that the child grew up, roused rabble, was executed, died, and rose from the dead.
And was “God.”
Those beliefs have caused a lot of ruckus and bloodshed too, admittedly, but that people hold them raises almost no eyebrows in our culture today.
Someone gave me this link a couple of nights ago, allegedly (I haven’t verified) the words of Dietrich Bonhoeffer on stupidity. It was as if he wrote it for us right now, and sheds light from a different angle on our challenges, an angle that I think is apt in relation to a lot of discussions we’ve had here.
didn’t mean to post, meant to proofread; will correct at least the link
didn’t mean to post, meant to proofread; will correct at least the link
http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/
http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/
From the link:
This seems, to me, an excellent definition.
From the link:
This seems, to me, an excellent definition.
Proud Boy and all-around right-wing knucklehead street brawler gets a restraining order
What a snowflake!
Proud Boy and all-around right-wing knucklehead street brawler gets a restraining order
What a snowflake!
We don’t share the same reality, and the gap between the real world and the world they inhabit seems unbridgeable.
i know this is probably getting old by now… but the reason for this is that there’s an large and profitable industry set up to create the Republican fantasy world. it exists entirely to keep them on Team GOP, fear and rage are its tools, and it has to make up ever-crazier stories to keep the audience away from reality.
until Fox et al perish, nothing will improve.
so, nothing will improve.
We don’t share the same reality, and the gap between the real world and the world they inhabit seems unbridgeable.
i know this is probably getting old by now… but the reason for this is that there’s an large and profitable industry set up to create the Republican fantasy world. it exists entirely to keep them on Team GOP, fear and rage are its tools, and it has to make up ever-crazier stories to keep the audience away from reality.
until Fox et al perish, nothing will improve.
so, nothing will improve.
Who will stop this madness?*
https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2021/11/12/stop-when-you-get-to-the-bad-part-congressman/
*Manchin and/or Sinema, as the auspices are at the moment. Some House Dems also make reversing a tax hike for the rich in blue states by Trump a precondition of their vote (86% of that would go to the top 1% and 4% to the bottom 80%).
Who will stop this madness?*
https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2021/11/12/stop-when-you-get-to-the-bad-part-congressman/
*Manchin and/or Sinema, as the auspices are at the moment. Some House Dems also make reversing a tax hike for the rich in blue states by Trump a precondition of their vote (86% of that would go to the top 1% and 4% to the bottom 80%).
86% of that would go to the top 1% and 4% to the bottom 80%
When voters are going with straight party line votes, what is most important for politicians is taking care of your big donors. So no surprise.
86% of that would go to the top 1% and 4% to the bottom 80%
When voters are going with straight party line votes, what is most important for politicians is taking care of your big donors. So no surprise.
MTG was honest for a change with a recent rant when she accused the 13 GOPsters that voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill of treason against their donors.
MTG was honest for a change with a recent rant when she accused the 13 GOPsters that voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill of treason against their donors.
In my home state, I pay very high state income taxes and property taxes. But, with the increased standard deduction, I still couldn’t reduce my federal income tax bill by itemizing and claiming SALT deductions even if they were uncapped. That’s why removing (or raising) the SALT cap would only help the very well off.
In my home state, I pay very high state income taxes and property taxes. But, with the increased standard deduction, I still couldn’t reduce my federal income tax bill by itemizing and claiming SALT deductions even if they were uncapped. That’s why removing (or raising) the SALT cap would only help the very well off.
The official reason for the demand is that otherwise all the rich would migrate from blue to red states thus depriving the citizens of the blue states of far more tax money than the cut/reversed hike would. Therefore lowering the tax burden of the rich is the only right thing to further progressive policies.
I’d call that quite lafferble.
The official reason for the demand is that otherwise all the rich would migrate from blue to red states thus depriving the citizens of the blue states of far more tax money than the cut/reversed hike would. Therefore lowering the tax burden of the rich is the only right thing to further progressive policies.
I’d call that quite lafferble.
I’d call that quite lafferble.
I’ve always found it interesting that the billionaires all live in blue states, or pretty much the bluest parts of red states. None of them move to, eg, the rural Great Plains, which are now by voter registration and most policy preferences the deepest red part of the country.
I’d call that quite lafferble.
I’ve always found it interesting that the billionaires all live in blue states, or pretty much the bluest parts of red states. None of them move to, eg, the rural Great Plains, which are now by voter registration and most policy preferences the deepest red part of the country.
I’ve always found it interesting that the billionaires all live in blue states, or pretty much the bluest parts of red states
Some of that is sheer inertia — those are the places where you can do things that make you a billionaire. Red states? Not so much. And once you have made your fortune, why move? It’s not like the higher taxes will have an actual impact on your lifestyle.
Seems like having an educational system which does actual, you know, education is helpful. As opposed to one which focuses on indoctrination. Who knew?
I’ve always found it interesting that the billionaires all live in blue states, or pretty much the bluest parts of red states
Some of that is sheer inertia — those are the places where you can do things that make you a billionaire. Red states? Not so much. And once you have made your fortune, why move? It’s not like the higher taxes will have an actual impact on your lifestyle.
Seems like having an educational system which does actual, you know, education is helpful. As opposed to one which focuses on indoctrination. Who knew?
Seems like having an educational system which does actual, you know, education is helpful.
Which, on the whole, it’s done less of in the blue states than the red states the past almost two years.
Seems like having an educational system which does actual, you know, education is helpful.
Which, on the whole, it’s done less of in the blue states than the red states the past almost two years.
Which, on the whole, it’s done less of in the blue states than the red states the past almost two years.
And your source for this assertion would be what? Also, what are you (or your source) using as a criteria for education vs indoctrination?
(Not to mention that you seem to be carefully selecting a seriously non-typical timeframe in order to try to make your point.)
Which, on the whole, it’s done less of in the blue states than the red states the past almost two years.
And your source for this assertion would be what? Also, what are you (or your source) using as a criteria for education vs indoctrination?
(Not to mention that you seem to be carefully selecting a seriously non-typical timeframe in order to try to make your point.)
(please be about CRT! please!)
(please be about CRT! please!)
43% of Republicans don’t want to teach children the history of racism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/10/4-10-republicans-dont-like-schools-teaching-about-history-racism/
the party of personal responsibility sucks ass.
43% of Republicans don’t want to teach children the history of racism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/10/4-10-republicans-dont-like-schools-teaching-about-history-racism/
the party of personal responsibility sucks ass.
(please be about CRT! please!)
Nah. I’m betting it’s about which states sent their kids to school in person, at the risk of their (and their families’) health. While ignoring the evidence any education person could readily see.
(please be about CRT! please!)
Nah. I’m betting it’s about which states sent their kids to school in person, at the risk of their (and their families’) health. While ignoring the evidence any education person could readily see.
Though it was at the top of the search list, I apologize for linking to a right-wing rag…
“More than a year into the pandemic, the majority of K-12 students in blue states are still not attending school in person full-time. The failure to resume the normal rhythm of schooling in historically progressive states amounts to the most significant failure of public policy in a generation.
What began as needed and understandable caution with the onset of COVID-19 has long since veered into the irresponsible. Democratic governors, leaders of the largest teachers’ unions and many local Democratic elected officials — a cadre that regales in the blood sport of attacking Trumpism for being anti-science — have consistently disregarded the overwhelming scientific evidence that opening full-time is doable and safe for most schools. For many left-leaning and moderate voters, such as myself — particularly those with school-age children — this has proven to be an unforgivable mistake considering the downside risks associated with closures.”
Blue States Are Failing Their Students by Not Reopening Schools. Here’s How They Got It So Wrong
Though it was at the top of the search list, I apologize for linking to a right-wing rag…
“More than a year into the pandemic, the majority of K-12 students in blue states are still not attending school in person full-time. The failure to resume the normal rhythm of schooling in historically progressive states amounts to the most significant failure of public policy in a generation.
What began as needed and understandable caution with the onset of COVID-19 has long since veered into the irresponsible. Democratic governors, leaders of the largest teachers’ unions and many local Democratic elected officials — a cadre that regales in the blood sport of attacking Trumpism for being anti-science — have consistently disregarded the overwhelming scientific evidence that opening full-time is doable and safe for most schools. For many left-leaning and moderate voters, such as myself — particularly those with school-age children — this has proven to be an unforgivable mistake considering the downside risks associated with closures.”
Blue States Are Failing Their Students by Not Reopening Schools. Here’s How They Got It So Wrong
opening full-time is doable and safe for most schools
Told ya.
opening full-time is doable and safe for most schools
Told ya.
Sure, Charles: MAGAts are soooo pro-science. Not a Young Earth Creationist, global-warming denier, or Ivermectin gobbler among them.
And there’s that “moderate” BS again. “Moderates” are people who preen themselves on tackling every problem in as close to a half-assed way as possible.
–TP
Sure, Charles: MAGAts are soooo pro-science. Not a Young Earth Creationist, global-warming denier, or Ivermectin gobbler among them.
And there’s that “moderate” BS again. “Moderates” are people who preen themselves on tackling every problem in as close to a half-assed way as possible.
–TP
From CharlesWT’s links’ (Time) links’ (WSJ) link (RW think tank):
Protective measures such as mask wearing, physically distancing, increasing hygiene regimens, and improving ventilation add layers of protection that can mitigate risks for students and school staff.
COVID-19 vaccinations, symptomatic testing and isolating potentially infected individuals, and asymptomatic COVID-19 screening tests offer additional preventative benefits.
So the AFT reads that report and says sure, mandate masks in the classroom, give us a small enough class to fulfill the distancing requirements and fix/upgrade the ventilation.
Set up a testing regime for faculty and staff that have to interact with the children and provide for sick time if they get a breakthrough case.
That’s what is being argued, right? How to reopen safely.
So then the red states go in and forbid mask mandates and do nothing to carry through on facilities improvements for all schools, many of which were dangerously crowded and without functioning ventilation before this whole thing.
And when the unions say that they are not willing to go back if the safety protocols are not followed, then they get blamed, not the politicians who are perpetuating the unsafe conditions.
Opening is doable and safe. I’ve been teaching in person since September *with a vaccine mandate, a mask mandate, contact tracing, and new ventilation in place.*
That’s the thing about conditionals. Teachers want what is best for their students as long as it is safe and doable. We want them to be in class and getting their lunches and all of the rest.
Do the things that the studies show will make it safe.
If you can’t, then it’s not safe to reopen.
From CharlesWT’s links’ (Time) links’ (WSJ) link (RW think tank):
Protective measures such as mask wearing, physically distancing, increasing hygiene regimens, and improving ventilation add layers of protection that can mitigate risks for students and school staff.
COVID-19 vaccinations, symptomatic testing and isolating potentially infected individuals, and asymptomatic COVID-19 screening tests offer additional preventative benefits.
So the AFT reads that report and says sure, mandate masks in the classroom, give us a small enough class to fulfill the distancing requirements and fix/upgrade the ventilation.
Set up a testing regime for faculty and staff that have to interact with the children and provide for sick time if they get a breakthrough case.
That’s what is being argued, right? How to reopen safely.
So then the red states go in and forbid mask mandates and do nothing to carry through on facilities improvements for all schools, many of which were dangerously crowded and without functioning ventilation before this whole thing.
And when the unions say that they are not willing to go back if the safety protocols are not followed, then they get blamed, not the politicians who are perpetuating the unsafe conditions.
Opening is doable and safe. I’ve been teaching in person since September *with a vaccine mandate, a mask mandate, contact tracing, and new ventilation in place.*
That’s the thing about conditionals. Teachers want what is best for their students as long as it is safe and doable. We want them to be in class and getting their lunches and all of the rest.
Do the things that the studies show will make it safe.
If you can’t, then it’s not safe to reopen.
Protective measures such as mask wearing, . . . add layers of protection that can mitigate risks [emphasis added]
Of course, just because you perhaps could reopen safely doesn’t mean that you can’t make a state ban mask mandates and avoid doing so.
Protective measures such as mask wearing, . . . add layers of protection that can mitigate risks [emphasis added]
Of course, just because you perhaps could reopen safely doesn’t mean that you can’t make a state ban mask mandates and avoid doing so.
My nieces have five kids between them. Four of five contracted Covid in school.
Three of the infected kids live in AZ. One lives in NH.
Tell me more about how blue states are “failing their kids”.
Drove downtown to the hardware store in my Very Blue Town in my Very Blue State a couple of days ago. There was a small but enthusiastic band of parents with a couple of kids each in tow. Big signs – “My Child My Choice” etc. One was waving an American flag.
Get the vax, don’t get the vax. It’s as safe as these things can be, but it’s not 100% without risk – the daughter of friends, an ER doc, got vaxed and had an auto-immune reaction that has put her out of work.
So if folks don’t want to get the vax, I’m approximately ok with it. I’d rather they got it, but I understand why folks might not want to. Or, not “understand” so much as “can accept”.
But then it’s your job to live out your decision by masking, maintaining social distance, and generally staying away from crowded places. It’s not your job to throw a fucking hissy fit if the school system says get vaxed or stay home.
Please see the definition of “stupid” cited above.
Five grand-nieces and nephews, four caught the virus at school. They’re OK so far, but scale that up to how many kids are in school, and there are some kids out there who are seriously ill. From an avoidable virus.
And if you’re gonna throw a hissy fit about it, leave the freaking American flag at home. This crap is not about your inalienable rights.
My nieces have five kids between them. Four of five contracted Covid in school.
Three of the infected kids live in AZ. One lives in NH.
Tell me more about how blue states are “failing their kids”.
Drove downtown to the hardware store in my Very Blue Town in my Very Blue State a couple of days ago. There was a small but enthusiastic band of parents with a couple of kids each in tow. Big signs – “My Child My Choice” etc. One was waving an American flag.
Get the vax, don’t get the vax. It’s as safe as these things can be, but it’s not 100% without risk – the daughter of friends, an ER doc, got vaxed and had an auto-immune reaction that has put her out of work.
So if folks don’t want to get the vax, I’m approximately ok with it. I’d rather they got it, but I understand why folks might not want to. Or, not “understand” so much as “can accept”.
But then it’s your job to live out your decision by masking, maintaining social distance, and generally staying away from crowded places. It’s not your job to throw a fucking hissy fit if the school system says get vaxed or stay home.
Please see the definition of “stupid” cited above.
Five grand-nieces and nephews, four caught the virus at school. They’re OK so far, but scale that up to how many kids are in school, and there are some kids out there who are seriously ill. From an avoidable virus.
And if you’re gonna throw a hissy fit about it, leave the freaking American flag at home. This crap is not about your inalienable rights.
Get the vax, don’t get the vax. It’s as safe as these things can be, but it’s not 100% without risk
Of course the same is true of every other vaccine we have. And yet we have routinely required children to have them in order to attend school, first responders, and health care workers, and military to have them in order to work.
All that’s different here is that it’s been made into a culture wars totem. See the definition of stupid above.
Get the vax, don’t get the vax. It’s as safe as these things can be, but it’s not 100% without risk
Of course the same is true of every other vaccine we have. And yet we have routinely required children to have them in order to attend school, first responders, and health care workers, and military to have them in order to work.
All that’s different here is that it’s been made into a culture wars totem. See the definition of stupid above.
Somehow, even learning remotely for most of it in my blue state, my son managed to test out of first-semester psych, English, and physics by scoring 4s on AP exams. But we’re not doing much educatin’.
The moron Republican who unseated the NJ State Senate President in my not-so-blue district ran in part by opposing our governor’s mask mandate in our now-open schools. He’s real up on science for a truck driver.
Somehow, even learning remotely for most of it in my blue state, my son managed to test out of first-semester psych, English, and physics by scoring 4s on AP exams. But we’re not doing much educatin’.
The moron Republican who unseated the NJ State Senate President in my not-so-blue district ran in part by opposing our governor’s mask mandate in our now-open schools. He’s real up on science for a truck driver.
The Department of Justice comes thru:
Bannon indicted over refusal to comply with subpoena from Jan. 6 committee
And no option of a Trump pardon this time.
The Department of Justice comes thru:
Bannon indicted over refusal to comply with subpoena from Jan. 6 committee
And no option of a Trump pardon this time.
https://www.voanews.com/a/million-infants-missed-first-measles-vaccine-in-2020/6310454.html
That Wall Street Journal link is like an arsonist coming around to see their work and complaining that the fire department isn’t doing their job.
https://www.voanews.com/a/million-infants-missed-first-measles-vaccine-in-2020/6310454.html
That Wall Street Journal link is like an arsonist coming around to see their work and complaining that the fire department isn’t doing their job.
Of course the same is true of every other vaccine we have.
Yup
Of course the same is true of every other vaccine we have.
Yup
Another reason for Democrats to worry—
https://www.thecity.nyc/politics/2021/11/11/22777346/chinese-new-yorkers-voted-for-sliwa-gop-republicans
Another reason for Democrats to worry—
https://www.thecity.nyc/politics/2021/11/11/22777346/chinese-new-yorkers-voted-for-sliwa-gop-republicans
Another reason for Democrats to worry
Seriously? That’s pretty silly, when you are looking at votes somewhere that the MAGA types have no hope of winning. Call it a protest vote. Or a bid more attention from the Democrats who are going to win.
But to see it as Republicans winning over a significant portion of the East Asian votes going forward? Not buying it.
Another reason for Democrats to worry
Seriously? That’s pretty silly, when you are looking at votes somewhere that the MAGA types have no hope of winning. Call it a protest vote. Or a bid more attention from the Democrats who are going to win.
But to see it as Republicans winning over a significant portion of the East Asian votes going forward? Not buying it.
Sliwa has also appeared as a character in some of the biggest controversies in the city, such as when he became an outspoken cheerleader for Bernhard Goetz, the infamous “subway vigilante” shooter who shot four Black teenagers on a downtown 2 train in 1984.
“Historically, Curtis has appealed to and has vindicated the sentiments of angry white people,” said Kuby, who is white and represented one of Goetz’s victims in court.
https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/10/10/22677692/who-is-curtis-sliwa-gop-nyc-mayoral-candidate-guardian-angel
Unfortunately, with immigrant communities in large urban areas, there is a lot of racism towards African-Americans. The clashes between Koreans and African-Americans after the LA Riots, because Asian small businesses often end up in African-American neighborhoods, they often bear the brunt of anger not only after events like the Rodney King trial, but also a constant hum of anger and frustration.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-05-20-mn-165-story.html
I’m not sure what ‘worrying’ means, unless it is to keep conscious how easy it is to use racism to divide and conquer.
Sliwa has also appeared as a character in some of the biggest controversies in the city, such as when he became an outspoken cheerleader for Bernhard Goetz, the infamous “subway vigilante” shooter who shot four Black teenagers on a downtown 2 train in 1984.
“Historically, Curtis has appealed to and has vindicated the sentiments of angry white people,” said Kuby, who is white and represented one of Goetz’s victims in court.
https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/10/10/22677692/who-is-curtis-sliwa-gop-nyc-mayoral-candidate-guardian-angel
Unfortunately, with immigrant communities in large urban areas, there is a lot of racism towards African-Americans. The clashes between Koreans and African-Americans after the LA Riots, because Asian small businesses often end up in African-American neighborhoods, they often bear the brunt of anger not only after events like the Rodney King trial, but also a constant hum of anger and frustration.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-05-20-mn-165-story.html
I’m not sure what ‘worrying’ means, unless it is to keep conscious how easy it is to use racism to divide and conquer.
Oh good grief. First, given the structural advantages that Republicans have, yes, Democrats should worry about how Republicans can use divide and conquer tactics. Second, while some of this is about racism and hostility between some Asians and some Blacks, there are also legitimate concerns about how resources are to be allocated in education. I don’t follow educational issues closely, so I don’t know where the truth lies when people say educational policies that DeBlasio favored would have taken away some advanced classes for gifted students. But that would be a legitimate concern for parents. And even I have heard that some Asians feel that there is a bias against Asian students in being accepted into college. Again, I don’t follow the issue closely, so I have no policy recommendation to make.
To the extent that Republicans are appealing to racist sentiments, you can’t surrender to that. But they could also be pointing to legitimate concerns ( like the alleged decreased support for gifted students). That is a normal thing for politicians to debate. It is what normal politics is about.
Unfortunately the Republican Party is a complete trash fire, a worthless piece of crap that should be flushed down the toilet and replaced by a party which acknowledges reality. It’s abject pandering to the stupid narcissistic piece of shit who refuses to admit defeat is just a symptom of how bad the Republican Party is. They pander to racists, they deny global warming, they are warmongers ( usually worse than the already dismal Democrats on human rights) and they win by appealing to people’s worst instincts while giving rich people everything they want, which is the only thing the Party genuinely cares about. So I hope that gives some idea where I stand.
But in the meantime, we are stuck with the fact that sometimes Republicans can point to arguably legitimate concerns and win votes that way. So we should worry about that.
Oh good grief. First, given the structural advantages that Republicans have, yes, Democrats should worry about how Republicans can use divide and conquer tactics. Second, while some of this is about racism and hostility between some Asians and some Blacks, there are also legitimate concerns about how resources are to be allocated in education. I don’t follow educational issues closely, so I don’t know where the truth lies when people say educational policies that DeBlasio favored would have taken away some advanced classes for gifted students. But that would be a legitimate concern for parents. And even I have heard that some Asians feel that there is a bias against Asian students in being accepted into college. Again, I don’t follow the issue closely, so I have no policy recommendation to make.
To the extent that Republicans are appealing to racist sentiments, you can’t surrender to that. But they could also be pointing to legitimate concerns ( like the alleged decreased support for gifted students). That is a normal thing for politicians to debate. It is what normal politics is about.
Unfortunately the Republican Party is a complete trash fire, a worthless piece of crap that should be flushed down the toilet and replaced by a party which acknowledges reality. It’s abject pandering to the stupid narcissistic piece of shit who refuses to admit defeat is just a symptom of how bad the Republican Party is. They pander to racists, they deny global warming, they are warmongers ( usually worse than the already dismal Democrats on human rights) and they win by appealing to people’s worst instincts while giving rich people everything they want, which is the only thing the Party genuinely cares about. So I hope that gives some idea where I stand.
But in the meantime, we are stuck with the fact that sometimes Republicans can point to arguably legitimate concerns and win votes that way. So we should worry about that.
But in the meantime, we are stuck with the fact that sometimes Republicans can point to arguably legitimate concerns and win votes that way. So we should worry about that.
Yes.
Even better, rather than just worry, we (i.e, not-Republicans) should address those concerns.
“Address” doesn’t have to mean abandoning principles or pandering. In some – maybe many – cases it may mean saying no, we’re not gonna do what you’re asking for.
But it can mean listening and acknowledging. And, perhaps, offering a better solution than what the (R)’s are selling.
But in the meantime, we are stuck with the fact that sometimes Republicans can point to arguably legitimate concerns and win votes that way. So we should worry about that.
Yes.
Even better, rather than just worry, we (i.e, not-Republicans) should address those concerns.
“Address” doesn’t have to mean abandoning principles or pandering. In some – maybe many – cases it may mean saying no, we’re not gonna do what you’re asking for.
But it can mean listening and acknowledging. And, perhaps, offering a better solution than what the (R)’s are selling.
As I sit here typing, just a bit over 80% of my power authority’s delivered electricity is coming from wind, hydro, and solar. Make of it what you will.
As I sit here typing, just a bit over 80% of my power authority’s delivered electricity is coming from wind, hydro, and solar. Make of it what you will.
But it can mean listening and acknowledging. And, perhaps, offering a better solution than what the (R)’s are selling.
“better” — what a remarkably low bar you are setting!
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left. Since they sometimes don’t align all that well with what their concerns are theoretically supposed to be. Uncomfortable, that.
But it can mean listening and acknowledging. And, perhaps, offering a better solution than what the (R)’s are selling.
“better” — what a remarkably low bar you are setting!
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left. Since they sometimes don’t align all that well with what their concerns are theoretically supposed to be. Uncomfortable, that.
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left.
Actually, a significant part of the really far left is out there trying to organize those very same blue collar workers. More often than not, these efforts fail (and hence go unremarked), mostly due to institutional arrangements that heavily favor employers. Most “blue collar” workers are not cranky old white guys sitting around in mid-western diners bloviating to the New York Times about how the Democratic Party “left them.”
I would conclude that your take on those folks who constitute the “far left” is much different than mine. Perhaps you are thinking of those Dem Senators who killed the Employee Free Choice Act.
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left.
Actually, a significant part of the really far left is out there trying to organize those very same blue collar workers. More often than not, these efforts fail (and hence go unremarked), mostly due to institutional arrangements that heavily favor employers. Most “blue collar” workers are not cranky old white guys sitting around in mid-western diners bloviating to the New York Times about how the Democratic Party “left them.”
I would conclude that your take on those folks who constitute the “far left” is much different than mine. Perhaps you are thinking of those Dem Senators who killed the Employee Free Choice Act.
I guess, wj is thinking more of the ivory tower left and (probably more apt here) the true cranks that chant about a type of revolution out of fashion for generations and consider practical reforms as objectionable or even counterproductive (not heightening the contradictions as mandated). I think we can discount the classical bourgeois salon bolshevik.
I guess, wj is thinking more of the ivory tower left and (probably more apt here) the true cranks that chant about a type of revolution out of fashion for generations and consider practical reforms as objectionable or even counterproductive (not heightening the contradictions as mandated). I think we can discount the classical bourgeois salon bolshevik.
bobby, sometimes those efforts fail due to an unequal playing field. But other times they fail simply because what those workers want, what their priorities are, isn’t what you (and the organizers) think they should.
Some times it’s something unfortunate, like straight up racism. But sometimes it’s something that’s not reprehensible, just different. Unrealistic, perhaps, but nothing more than that. Your failure to grasp that is what lets scum like the previous guy, and his acolytes, win elections.
bobby, sometimes those efforts fail due to an unequal playing field. But other times they fail simply because what those workers want, what their priorities are, isn’t what you (and the organizers) think they should.
Some times it’s something unfortunate, like straight up racism. But sometimes it’s something that’s not reprehensible, just different. Unrealistic, perhaps, but nothing more than that. Your failure to grasp that is what lets scum like the previous guy, and his acolytes, win elections.
Wj, be specific. What is it that blue collar workers want that is different from what bobbyp wants? I suspect one could come up with something, but probably most want higher pay, paid leave, and genuinely affordable health care, along with safe working conditions, the right to use the bathroom, etc… They might be scared off from voting for a union.
Also, the ivory tower leftists are pretty rare in real life. They exist online. But most people who argue about politics online are weird no matter what their ( our, my) stances.
Wj, be specific. What is it that blue collar workers want that is different from what bobbyp wants? I suspect one could come up with something, but probably most want higher pay, paid leave, and genuinely affordable health care, along with safe working conditions, the right to use the bathroom, etc… They might be scared off from voting for a union.
Also, the ivory tower leftists are pretty rare in real life. They exist online. But most people who argue about politics online are weird no matter what their ( our, my) stances.
the “far left” is a term that doesn’t really apply to the United States. who is “far left” here?
Noam Chomsky? And he has what influence on public policy, in any way shape or form?
Working class people – people who work, but who aren’t management, and don’t work in tech or professions that require advanced degrees – feel under-represented by (D)’s. For reasons ranging from quite legitimate, to less well-informed.
That includes people of lots of racial and ethnic backgrounds, not just white people. There are lots of conservative, (R)-voting Latins and Asians. Also lots of conservative, (R)-voting blacks, although significantly less so.
The (D)’s have a good narrative for working people. Good policies. They have done a very poor job of getting their butts out of the coastal metropolises where the (D) leadership and the people they hang out with live. So their story goes untold, in places where it could, and should, matter.
Howard Dean had the right idea – run everywhere, all the time – and when he left the DNC, I don’t think anyone maintained it.
So now a lot of working people think the (D)’s are only about swanky people in big cities.
To be honest, I don’t think anybody is listening to their concerns. The (R)’s win their votes by telling them the (D)’s hate them. But they’re not doing a lot for them.
The US is a very, very wealthy country, but a lot of people still live pretty precarious lives, financially and in other ways. Doesn’t have to be that way, but it is that way.
the “far left” is a term that doesn’t really apply to the United States. who is “far left” here?
Noam Chomsky? And he has what influence on public policy, in any way shape or form?
Working class people – people who work, but who aren’t management, and don’t work in tech or professions that require advanced degrees – feel under-represented by (D)’s. For reasons ranging from quite legitimate, to less well-informed.
That includes people of lots of racial and ethnic backgrounds, not just white people. There are lots of conservative, (R)-voting Latins and Asians. Also lots of conservative, (R)-voting blacks, although significantly less so.
The (D)’s have a good narrative for working people. Good policies. They have done a very poor job of getting their butts out of the coastal metropolises where the (D) leadership and the people they hang out with live. So their story goes untold, in places where it could, and should, matter.
Howard Dean had the right idea – run everywhere, all the time – and when he left the DNC, I don’t think anyone maintained it.
So now a lot of working people think the (D)’s are only about swanky people in big cities.
To be honest, I don’t think anybody is listening to their concerns. The (R)’s win their votes by telling them the (D)’s hate them. But they’re not doing a lot for them.
The US is a very, very wealthy country, but a lot of people still live pretty precarious lives, financially and in other ways. Doesn’t have to be that way, but it is that way.
The NYT has become interested in American lying about its air strikes after the Kabul debacle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/13/us/us-airstrikes-civilian-deaths.html
They actually carried a good article about this issue by Anand Gopal in the Sunday magazine back in 2017, but he mostly examined the enormous discrepancy between what the US claimed about civilian deaths and what he found when he investigated himself. This time there is more emphasis on the conflicts and lies within the government.
The NYT has become interested in American lying about its air strikes after the Kabul debacle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/13/us/us-airstrikes-civilian-deaths.html
They actually carried a good article about this issue by Anand Gopal in the Sunday magazine back in 2017, but he mostly examined the enormous discrepancy between what the US claimed about civilian deaths and what he found when he investigated himself. This time there is more emphasis on the conflicts and lies within the government.
what russell said.
what russell said.
I suspect one could come up with something, but probably most want higher pay, paid leave, and genuinely affordable health care, along with safe working conditions, the right to use the bathroom, etc…
quite a few of them want to be safe from foreigners of all kinds, including terrorists, illegals, strangers in town, and people who don’t look, speak or worship like them.
quite a few of them want their precious guns.
quite a few of them think the government is an occupying force that’s determined to subjugate them and make their kids grow up to hate them and worship a gay communist Satan.
quite a few of them think anyone with an education is suspect.
they keep saying this over and over.
I suspect one could come up with something, but probably most want higher pay, paid leave, and genuinely affordable health care, along with safe working conditions, the right to use the bathroom, etc…
quite a few of them want to be safe from foreigners of all kinds, including terrorists, illegals, strangers in town, and people who don’t look, speak or worship like them.
quite a few of them want their precious guns.
quite a few of them think the government is an occupying force that’s determined to subjugate them and make their kids grow up to hate them and worship a gay communist Satan.
quite a few of them think anyone with an education is suspect.
they keep saying this over and over.
Shorter cleek: quite a few of them would strongly prefer that things not keep changing. At least, not so much and so fast.
(The things that have changed for the better, which they like, are cheerfully ignored where this concern is concerned.)
Shorter cleek: quite a few of them would strongly prefer that things not keep changing. At least, not so much and so fast.
(The things that have changed for the better, which they like, are cheerfully ignored where this concern is concerned.)
Your failure to grasp that is what lets scum like the previous guy, and his acolytes, win elections.
My failure? LOL. I would suggest you take that up with noted “far left” (your term) 2016 candidate, Hillary Clinton. It is also incumbent to remember that Clinton beat Trump handily among voters with incomes under $50k (i.e., workers) I would suggest your concern about the “far left” is, um, misplaced.
Your failure to grasp that is what lets scum like the previous guy, and his acolytes, win elections.
My failure? LOL. I would suggest you take that up with noted “far left” (your term) 2016 candidate, Hillary Clinton. It is also incumbent to remember that Clinton beat Trump handily among voters with incomes under $50k (i.e., workers) I would suggest your concern about the “far left” is, um, misplaced.
To be honest, I don’t think anybody is listening to their concerns.
If their concerns are those listed by cleek above, then there certainly are politicians “listening” to them. It strikes me that the problem arises when one tries to get them to get on board with other concerns….despite the D’s having a good narrative and good policies. What to do about that is the tough nut for the D’s to crack, and it is not aided any by institutional arrangements that favor rural white voters. But blaming the “far left”? Come on. Really?
I would agree with you that to beat the enemy, you have to take the battle to their territory, and when it comes to public policy…you have to go bold. To my way of thinking, that is how we on the “far left” can win.
To be honest, I don’t think anybody is listening to their concerns.
If their concerns are those listed by cleek above, then there certainly are politicians “listening” to them. It strikes me that the problem arises when one tries to get them to get on board with other concerns….despite the D’s having a good narrative and good policies. What to do about that is the tough nut for the D’s to crack, and it is not aided any by institutional arrangements that favor rural white voters. But blaming the “far left”? Come on. Really?
I would agree with you that to beat the enemy, you have to take the battle to their territory, and when it comes to public policy…you have to go bold. To my way of thinking, that is how we on the “far left” can win.
quite a few of them would strongly prefer that things not keep changing. At least, not so much and so fast.
What things? The mid-west has been de-industrializing since the 70’s (bobbyp counts fingers….hey-that’s 50 years!). The loss of high paying factory jobs and some advancement in racial equality created a perfect storm that has politically benefited reactionaries.
Too fast you say? Let’s pull back and take a longer view.
quite a few of them would strongly prefer that things not keep changing. At least, not so much and so fast.
What things? The mid-west has been de-industrializing since the 70’s (bobbyp counts fingers….hey-that’s 50 years!). The loss of high paying factory jobs and some advancement in racial equality created a perfect storm that has politically benefited reactionaries.
Too fast you say? Let’s pull back and take a longer view.
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left. Since they sometimes don’t align all that well with what their concerns are theoretically supposed to be. Uncomfortable, that.
It’s ironic to me that the people who most often get labeled and typified as the “far left” (Bernie, AOC) are actually the wing of the Democratic party with the most appeal for the working class voters. Sanders rallies in CA are heavily hispanic and labor or union in their demographics. AOC’s entire campaign was built upon working class appeals.
It’s the MOR Democrats that have built their careers on appeals to donors, the markets, and white collar concerns.
As for ivory tower Dems, those are mostly Poli Sci professors and they are again usually MOR types. The adjuncts at the big universities or at community colleges who support the more Democratic Socialist wing are mostly themselves minorities and women (60% of contract faculty), and they teach the sort of classes that are most likely to have first generation college students in them. (I’m a first gen college student myself and remain committed to those students far beyond what the job requires.) Not exactly an ivory tower. Certainly less of an ivory tower than the suburban workers who have jobs in big tech or big pharma.
It’s a weird, but persistent set of stereotypes that keep people thinking that academics on the soft side of campus are isolated from the realities of the working class. That hasn’t been anything like reality for at least two decades. The majority of them live under the same conditions as any other working class person, differing only in their educational attainment.
I’m less isolated now than I was when I worked in IT in the ’90s.
Although, I admit, being forced to listen and acknowledge the actual concerns of blue collar workers and their families may grate on the far left. Since they sometimes don’t align all that well with what their concerns are theoretically supposed to be. Uncomfortable, that.
It’s ironic to me that the people who most often get labeled and typified as the “far left” (Bernie, AOC) are actually the wing of the Democratic party with the most appeal for the working class voters. Sanders rallies in CA are heavily hispanic and labor or union in their demographics. AOC’s entire campaign was built upon working class appeals.
It’s the MOR Democrats that have built their careers on appeals to donors, the markets, and white collar concerns.
As for ivory tower Dems, those are mostly Poli Sci professors and they are again usually MOR types. The adjuncts at the big universities or at community colleges who support the more Democratic Socialist wing are mostly themselves minorities and women (60% of contract faculty), and they teach the sort of classes that are most likely to have first generation college students in them. (I’m a first gen college student myself and remain committed to those students far beyond what the job requires.) Not exactly an ivory tower. Certainly less of an ivory tower than the suburban workers who have jobs in big tech or big pharma.
It’s a weird, but persistent set of stereotypes that keep people thinking that academics on the soft side of campus are isolated from the realities of the working class. That hasn’t been anything like reality for at least two decades. The majority of them live under the same conditions as any other working class person, differing only in their educational attainment.
I’m less isolated now than I was when I worked in IT in the ’90s.
while we are wagging fingers here, let’s not overlook wokeness.
Just thought I’d throw that out there. 🙂
Have a good weekend. Thanks.
while we are wagging fingers here, let’s not overlook wokeness.
Just thought I’d throw that out there. 🙂
Have a good weekend. Thanks.
The majority of them live under the same conditions as any other working class person, differing only in their educational attainment.
education is treated a big difference, in the US.
The majority of them live under the same conditions as any other working class person, differing only in their educational attainment.
education is treated a big difference, in the US.
What things? The mid-west has been de-industrializing since the 70’s (bobbyp counts fingers….hey-that’s 50 years!)
Which only means that they have had 50 years of stuff changing in ways that they don’t like. That is, it’s an on-going issue for them, not something new.
What things? The mid-west has been de-industrializing since the 70’s (bobbyp counts fingers….hey-that’s 50 years!)
Which only means that they have had 50 years of stuff changing in ways that they don’t like. That is, it’s an on-going issue for them, not something new.
It’s ironic to me that the people who most often get labeled and typified as the “far left” (Bernie, AOC) are actually the wing of the Democratic party with the most appeal for the working class voters
I can’t speak for others. But it seems to me that bobby (for one example here) is way further left than Bernie or AOC.
It’s ironic to me that the people who most often get labeled and typified as the “far left” (Bernie, AOC) are actually the wing of the Democratic party with the most appeal for the working class voters
I can’t speak for others. But it seems to me that bobby (for one example here) is way further left than Bernie or AOC.
Perhaps we are just not wired correctly, wj, and we have had 200,000 years of stuff just happening too fast. For example, our Industrial Revolution is less than 300 years old. I blame evolution for not keeping up. 🙂
Perhaps we are just not wired correctly, wj, and we have had 200,000 years of stuff just happening too fast. For example, our Industrial Revolution is less than 300 years old. I blame evolution for not keeping up. 🙂
Yes, quite a few working class people and others are racist. And quite a few aren’t. Some of them aren’t white. Trying to figure out what the point is. You try to do good things and in the process reach the people who are reachable.
By the way, ithis NYT story on the Syrian air strike is something of a game changer in the sense that here we finally get the reporting of what goes on inside the bureaucracy. There are a few decent people in the military who take the laws of war seriously, but the incentives are mostly to cover things up.
Most of the previous repotting shows the enormous gap between what the government claims about our actions and what various investigators find. It is obvious that the government is lying, but here we have a few people willing to go on the record.
In the end I don’t think it will matter.
Yes, quite a few working class people and others are racist. And quite a few aren’t. Some of them aren’t white. Trying to figure out what the point is. You try to do good things and in the process reach the people who are reachable.
By the way, ithis NYT story on the Syrian air strike is something of a game changer in the sense that here we finally get the reporting of what goes on inside the bureaucracy. There are a few decent people in the military who take the laws of war seriously, but the incentives are mostly to cover things up.
Most of the previous repotting shows the enormous gap between what the government claims about our actions and what various investigators find. It is obvious that the government is lying, but here we have a few people willing to go on the record.
In the end I don’t think it will matter.
Just like ‘Democrats [need] to worry’, I’m not sure what your ‘good grief’ means, Donald. Reading about what you posted, it looks like Sliwa tapped into a vein of racism that had the AAPI bloc agree. Those points were
-placing of homeless shelters
-reorganizing magnet schools
While I would be all for them putting homeless shelters on Park Avenue, I don’t think that is going to happen. And I don’t know enough details about the reorganization of magnet schools, but I do note that the Virginia race turned on education
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/04/1052101647/education-parents-election-virginia-republicans
So I would like to know exactly what is happening and what was said about what was happening.
About ‘surrendering’ to Republican rhetoric on racism, it seems that using the shorthand you use encourages people to do just that. By not understanding the dynamics and local context of the race but simply telling us that because something something happened in NY, ‘Democrats worry’, it simply encourages a facile understanding of what is happening.
Just like ‘Democrats [need] to worry’, I’m not sure what your ‘good grief’ means, Donald. Reading about what you posted, it looks like Sliwa tapped into a vein of racism that had the AAPI bloc agree. Those points were
-placing of homeless shelters
-reorganizing magnet schools
While I would be all for them putting homeless shelters on Park Avenue, I don’t think that is going to happen. And I don’t know enough details about the reorganization of magnet schools, but I do note that the Virginia race turned on education
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/04/1052101647/education-parents-election-virginia-republicans
So I would like to know exactly what is happening and what was said about what was happening.
About ‘surrendering’ to Republican rhetoric on racism, it seems that using the shorthand you use encourages people to do just that. By not understanding the dynamics and local context of the race but simply telling us that because something something happened in NY, ‘Democrats worry’, it simply encourages a facile understanding of what is happening.
You are reading too much into my comment, LJ. Russell said it better anyway, so in this case I’d just go with wrs.
You are reading too much into my comment, LJ. Russell said it better anyway, so in this case I’d just go with wrs.
In my dreams, the future of the (D) party are people like Fetterman, Tester, and AOC.
Interpreting broad capital-D Democratic principles in terms that are relevant for the people they represent.
Fetterman, Tester, and AOC are all different, because the communities and people they represent are all different. But they all emphasize, and work toward, regular people having a freaking shot at a place in the world.
That means different things in western PA, Montana, and the Bronx, so the specific things they champion are not all exactly the same.
But the broad goals are.
That is the way it should work.
And to be honest, if (R)’s would get behind the same broad goals, I’d probably vote for a (R) now and then. Because I’m not that invested in the letter after the name.
But they don’t, and they haven’t, and they show no sign of doing to any time in my lifetime.
So to whatever degree I engage in the political process, I generally do so with the goal of, not just beating them, but crushing them like bugs.
Because the (R) party has become a cesspit of ignorance and resentment.
There is no future in that. No future I want to live in, no future anyone should want to live in.
In my dreams, the future of the (D) party are people like Fetterman, Tester, and AOC.
Interpreting broad capital-D Democratic principles in terms that are relevant for the people they represent.
Fetterman, Tester, and AOC are all different, because the communities and people they represent are all different. But they all emphasize, and work toward, regular people having a freaking shot at a place in the world.
That means different things in western PA, Montana, and the Bronx, so the specific things they champion are not all exactly the same.
But the broad goals are.
That is the way it should work.
And to be honest, if (R)’s would get behind the same broad goals, I’d probably vote for a (R) now and then. Because I’m not that invested in the letter after the name.
But they don’t, and they haven’t, and they show no sign of doing to any time in my lifetime.
So to whatever degree I engage in the political process, I generally do so with the goal of, not just beating them, but crushing them like bugs.
Because the (R) party has become a cesspit of ignorance and resentment.
There is no future in that. No future I want to live in, no future anyone should want to live in.
And to be honest, if (R)’s would get behind the same broad goals, I’d probably vote for a (R) now and then. Because I’m not that invested in the letter after the name.
And sometimes you have to live with “The alternative is worse.” Suppose you live in a place like Alaska.** Your choices for the Senate next time are a) Sen Murkowski, who is a Republican, but running as an independent because she lost the primary to b) a MAGA wingnut who thinks Trump is the second coming. Also c) a Democrat. Except that the Democrat has no chance — that is, will finish third regardless. So you can vote for the Democrat, because you dislike the other two (and their positions on numerous issues). Or you can hold your nose, and cast a vote which will at least give the Senate one less wingnut.
So, which do you pick? And why?
** I know little about the ins and outs of Alaska politics. Just that Murkowski had to run as an independent last time, because she lost the R primary. But it’s the general scenario that I’m talking about.
And to be honest, if (R)’s would get behind the same broad goals, I’d probably vote for a (R) now and then. Because I’m not that invested in the letter after the name.
And sometimes you have to live with “The alternative is worse.” Suppose you live in a place like Alaska.** Your choices for the Senate next time are a) Sen Murkowski, who is a Republican, but running as an independent because she lost the primary to b) a MAGA wingnut who thinks Trump is the second coming. Also c) a Democrat. Except that the Democrat has no chance — that is, will finish third regardless. So you can vote for the Democrat, because you dislike the other two (and their positions on numerous issues). Or you can hold your nose, and cast a vote which will at least give the Senate one less wingnut.
So, which do you pick? And why?
** I know little about the ins and outs of Alaska politics. Just that Murkowski had to run as an independent last time, because she lost the R primary. But it’s the general scenario that I’m talking about.
I can’t speak for others. But it seems to me that bobby (for one example here) is way further left than Bernie or AOC.
That depends, but in a general aspirational sense, yes, I would say that is true. But I ask you this…Just what, exactly, is your point?
So to whatever degree I engage in the political process, I generally do so with the goal of, not just beating them, but crushing them like bugs.
Yup. There are definitely “good” people who are republicans, but they should be bitterly opposed from holding any political office, because to hold any such office as a member of the GOP is to explicitly support the GOP, an ethno-nationalist anti-democratic racist cesspit, to borrow a phrase (hat tip russell).
An injury to one is an injury to all.
Stay safe.
I can’t speak for others. But it seems to me that bobby (for one example here) is way further left than Bernie or AOC.
That depends, but in a general aspirational sense, yes, I would say that is true. But I ask you this…Just what, exactly, is your point?
So to whatever degree I engage in the political process, I generally do so with the goal of, not just beating them, but crushing them like bugs.
Yup. There are definitely “good” people who are republicans, but they should be bitterly opposed from holding any political office, because to hold any such office as a member of the GOP is to explicitly support the GOP, an ethno-nationalist anti-democratic racist cesspit, to borrow a phrase (hat tip russell).
An injury to one is an injury to all.
Stay safe.
So, which do you pick? And why?
It depends.
If Murkowski is highly likely to win, I’d vote for the (D), to help establish a (D) presence in AK.
If it was neck and neck, I’d probably vote for Murkowski, just to keep the Trumpster out of the Senate.
It also depends on who the (D) is. If it’s someone I think is just a great candidate, they get my vote, and if Murkowski loses, so be it.
It’s worth noting here that Murkowski is an outlier in the national (R) party. For pretty much anyone other than her or maybe a very very very small handful – count ‘em on my fingers – I’d vote (D).
So, which do you pick? And why?
It depends.
If Murkowski is highly likely to win, I’d vote for the (D), to help establish a (D) presence in AK.
If it was neck and neck, I’d probably vote for Murkowski, just to keep the Trumpster out of the Senate.
It also depends on who the (D) is. If it’s someone I think is just a great candidate, they get my vote, and if Murkowski loses, so be it.
It’s worth noting here that Murkowski is an outlier in the national (R) party. For pretty much anyone other than her or maybe a very very very small handful – count ‘em on my fingers – I’d vote (D).
Yeah nous, some of your best friends are working class people.
Just came by to see where yall had gotten. Of course AOC has a working class appeal, that’s how ssocialists/communists have always sold themselves.
I would wonder if anyone here ever ventures outside their ivory tomer, except everyone seems to know someone from the ignorant cesspool they can despise so I assume a complete lack of empathy is the issue.
Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met. Do you ever go back and read what you wrote?
Yeah nous, some of your best friends are working class people.
Just came by to see where yall had gotten. Of course AOC has a working class appeal, that’s how ssocialists/communists have always sold themselves.
I would wonder if anyone here ever ventures outside their ivory tomer, except everyone seems to know someone from the ignorant cesspool they can despise so I assume a complete lack of empathy is the issue.
Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met. Do you ever go back and read what you wrote?
“Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.”
Get out much?
Hey Rapunzel, let down your elite hair.
Your tower ain’t got no access.
No one is stopping you, Marty, from ……. paying no taxes …. no, I mean from walking thru nous’ open classroom door and/or academic office door and learning what’s up in person.
I suspect his campus building has a buzzer lock system on its entry way door, however, to ward off all of the rightwing fuckers in this country who hate teachers, academics, and scientists and so many other who who have fucking made something of themselves.
I happen to believe academics, teachers, hod carriers, universoty janitors and dishwashers deserve some mighty compensation increases acorss the board.
Unfortunately that will be counted as “Inflation” by conservative professional know-it-alls who have been sucking up wage increases for decades and calling it just desserts.
Next, you’ll be claiming the Confederacy was treated oh so badly by we northern elites …. see, I have been known to go back and re-read your comments from time to time.
nous drinks beer too, so obviously he is capable of lowering himself to your aggrieved level in a dive bar in his hometown to talk things over face to face.
I’m aggrieved that after all of the work I’ve put in here becoming the mightiest hater of all against the conservative movement, outside of Donald Trump, that I’m lumped in with all of these moderates at OBWI.
I’ve been working class from time to time in my life, by which I mean I’ve done plenty of manual labor with gents named Manuel, but I ain’t got the class Manny has.
Obligatory smiley thingy: %-)
This is this, real life is real life.
“Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.”
Get out much?
Hey Rapunzel, let down your elite hair.
Your tower ain’t got no access.
No one is stopping you, Marty, from ……. paying no taxes …. no, I mean from walking thru nous’ open classroom door and/or academic office door and learning what’s up in person.
I suspect his campus building has a buzzer lock system on its entry way door, however, to ward off all of the rightwing fuckers in this country who hate teachers, academics, and scientists and so many other who who have fucking made something of themselves.
I happen to believe academics, teachers, hod carriers, universoty janitors and dishwashers deserve some mighty compensation increases acorss the board.
Unfortunately that will be counted as “Inflation” by conservative professional know-it-alls who have been sucking up wage increases for decades and calling it just desserts.
Next, you’ll be claiming the Confederacy was treated oh so badly by we northern elites …. see, I have been known to go back and re-read your comments from time to time.
nous drinks beer too, so obviously he is capable of lowering himself to your aggrieved level in a dive bar in his hometown to talk things over face to face.
I’m aggrieved that after all of the work I’ve put in here becoming the mightiest hater of all against the conservative movement, outside of Donald Trump, that I’m lumped in with all of these moderates at OBWI.
I’ve been working class from time to time in my life, by which I mean I’ve done plenty of manual labor with gents named Manuel, but I ain’t got the class Manny has.
Obligatory smiley thingy: %-)
This is this, real life is real life.
“Ya’ll hate better …”
You ain’t seen nuthin yet:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/11/pennsylvania-election-threat/620684/
Look up the firefighting term “pyroCbs”.
You’ll look back wistfully at our mild little salon of anxious diatribes here when every future election in this country is stolen by Trump conservative scum and their pure, principled republican gauleiters, like your Governor, and the savagely violent firestorm against them sends what was once America into the atmosphere as a colossal cloud of soot and ash.
What is Aleppo?
You’ll find out.
“Ya’ll hate better …”
You ain’t seen nuthin yet:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/11/pennsylvania-election-threat/620684/
Look up the firefighting term “pyroCbs”.
You’ll look back wistfully at our mild little salon of anxious diatribes here when every future election in this country is stolen by Trump conservative scum and their pure, principled republican gauleiters, like your Governor, and the savagely violent firestorm against them sends what was once America into the atmosphere as a colossal cloud of soot and ash.
What is Aleppo?
You’ll find out.
There are definitely “good” people who are republicans, but they should be bitterly opposed from holding any political office, because to hold any such office as a member of the GOP is to explicitly support the GOP, an ethno-nationalist anti-democratic racist cesspit,
But if you will also opposed those “good people”, you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever. Because, why would they even consider anyone outside their base unless that’s a way to win?
But perhaps I am blinded by the fact that I think government works best when there are two (perhaps more) sane parties interested in governing. Which we don’t have at the moment. You may think rescuing the GOP is a hopless task. But is there a more plausible scenario? I’d love one, but I’m just not seeing it.
There are definitely “good” people who are republicans, but they should be bitterly opposed from holding any political office, because to hold any such office as a member of the GOP is to explicitly support the GOP, an ethno-nationalist anti-democratic racist cesspit,
But if you will also opposed those “good people”, you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever. Because, why would they even consider anyone outside their base unless that’s a way to win?
But perhaps I am blinded by the fact that I think government works best when there are two (perhaps more) sane parties interested in governing. Which we don’t have at the moment. You may think rescuing the GOP is a hopless task. But is there a more plausible scenario? I’d love one, but I’m just not seeing it.
“Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.”
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/11/12/rep-paul-gosar-arizona-constituents-aoc-video-reaction-kaye-ac360-vpx.cnn
troll smarter
“Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.”
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/11/12/rep-paul-gosar-arizona-constituents-aoc-video-reaction-kaye-ac360-vpx.cnn
troll smarter
Do my misspellings, that I can spell, out me as an ivory tower elitist, I ask you?
Do my misspellings, that I can spell, out me as an ivory tower elitist, I ask you?
Yeah nous, some of your best friends are working class people.
You know they’re not?
You’re the “Crosby Stills Ernst & Young” guy, right? You coming here to give us crap about our lack of working class cred?
everyone seems to know someone from the ignorant cesspool they can despise so I assume a complete lack of empathy is the issue.
Despise? When I talk about people knee-deep in ignorance and resentment, I’m talking about my own family. People who taught me to read, to drive, people who fed me, people who helped and supported me into adulthood and beyond.
Hate? I’ll take a bullet for them.
And there are a wide range of topics on which I will not engage with them, because they are full of ignorance and resentment. They believe things that are not true and which are easily discoverable to not be true. And they express resentment and hostility to people that mean them no harm at all.
It’s complicated, but unfortunately it’s the way life is right now. It’s just profoundly sad.
Was greeted today by a FB post from a state senator from MS, who thought it was clever to post a picture of deer turds that some guy had arranged to spell out “Let’s Go Brandon”. That is the quality of discourse I have come to expect from our representatives in the (R) party.
If you don’t dig the company, man, why come around?
Yeah nous, some of your best friends are working class people.
You know they’re not?
You’re the “Crosby Stills Ernst & Young” guy, right? You coming here to give us crap about our lack of working class cred?
everyone seems to know someone from the ignorant cesspool they can despise so I assume a complete lack of empathy is the issue.
Despise? When I talk about people knee-deep in ignorance and resentment, I’m talking about my own family. People who taught me to read, to drive, people who fed me, people who helped and supported me into adulthood and beyond.
Hate? I’ll take a bullet for them.
And there are a wide range of topics on which I will not engage with them, because they are full of ignorance and resentment. They believe things that are not true and which are easily discoverable to not be true. And they express resentment and hostility to people that mean them no harm at all.
It’s complicated, but unfortunately it’s the way life is right now. It’s just profoundly sad.
Was greeted today by a FB post from a state senator from MS, who thought it was clever to post a picture of deer turds that some guy had arranged to spell out “Let’s Go Brandon”. That is the quality of discourse I have come to expect from our representatives in the (R) party.
If you don’t dig the company, man, why come around?
nooneithink, that’s a really depressing Atlantic article. But it reflects something I’ve noticed for years. The far right is willing to labor for years to get control of obscure offices — ones which have worked fine in the past, but have the potential to sabotage government in areas that they care about. Typically, Democrats don’t start to pay serious attention to these until the damage is locked in.
Not trying to blame the victim here. (Not least because we are all victims in this.) But there’s a problem here that needs to be addressed.
nooneithink, that’s a really depressing Atlantic article. But it reflects something I’ve noticed for years. The far right is willing to labor for years to get control of obscure offices — ones which have worked fine in the past, but have the potential to sabotage government in areas that they care about. Typically, Democrats don’t start to pay serious attention to these until the damage is locked in.
Not trying to blame the victim here. (Not least because we are all victims in this.) But there’s a problem here that needs to be addressed.
Despise? When I talk about people knee-deep in ignorance and resentment, I’m talking about my own family. People who taught me to read, to drive, people who fed me, people who helped and supported me into adulthood and beyond.
Hate? I’ll take a bullet for them.
The historic spirit and soul of ObWi.
Jesus H Christ. What are things coming to, in the world, in the US, in the UK?
Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.
Do words have no actual meaning any more? Are we entirely through the looking glass?
Despise? When I talk about people knee-deep in ignorance and resentment, I’m talking about my own family. People who taught me to read, to drive, people who fed me, people who helped and supported me into adulthood and beyond.
Hate? I’ll take a bullet for them.
The historic spirit and soul of ObWi.
Jesus H Christ. What are things coming to, in the world, in the US, in the UK?
Ya’ll hate better than any group of people I ever met.
Do words have no actual meaning any more? Are we entirely through the looking glass?
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-lawyer-ellis-memo-pence-overturn-2020-election
My fury is pointless up to now, as these ilk are still walking the streets.
wj wrote: “you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever.”
The GOP, and no one else, has, with extreme prejudice, ceded the Republican Party to the lunatics forever.
Liz Cheney, you say? She’s dead meat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10188413/Trump-tears-Liz-Cheney-19-approval-Wyoming.html
It grieves me no end that Cheney turned out not to be “peak lunatic”, but she seemed as far as the lunacy might grow at the time.
Like all of us, I suffered from a failure of imagination.
If she wore an eye patch, she could pass for Claus von Stauffenberg, of Hitler assassination plan fame, not because THAT wasn’t a good idea, but because she wants to keep Austria and the other “living space” territory he helped conquer.
We’re done with all of them.
Take all of their living space.
It is not a war I declared.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-lawyer-ellis-memo-pence-overturn-2020-election
My fury is pointless up to now, as these ilk are still walking the streets.
wj wrote: “you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever.”
The GOP, and no one else, has, with extreme prejudice, ceded the Republican Party to the lunatics forever.
Liz Cheney, you say? She’s dead meat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10188413/Trump-tears-Liz-Cheney-19-approval-Wyoming.html
It grieves me no end that Cheney turned out not to be “peak lunatic”, but she seemed as far as the lunacy might grow at the time.
Like all of us, I suffered from a failure of imagination.
If she wore an eye patch, she could pass for Claus von Stauffenberg, of Hitler assassination plan fame, not because THAT wasn’t a good idea, but because she wants to keep Austria and the other “living space” territory he helped conquer.
We’re done with all of them.
Take all of their living space.
It is not a war I declared.
I got four out of five grand-nieces and -nephews infected with Covid, that they caught in schools, because where they live the school systems insist that kids attend in person, in some cases with no requirement to wear a mask, and the communities they live in are full of people who refuse to observe basic public health protocols.
My brother in law is bouncing between the hospital and rehab because he’s got West Nile. Because Phoenix had a really wet summer and there are mosquitoes everywhere. His family can’t come see him because he didn’t get vaxed, because he fills his head full of crap from Fox etc. and getting a freaking vaccine is, in his mind, some kind of nanny-state intrusion on his life.
These people are my blood. I guess I could just say, “Hey, live your life, it’s your choice”, but I’d really rather they weren’t catching fucking preventable viruses and having to go through months of horrifying medical procedures with no family contact.
That’s where I’m coming from.
People are behaving really stupidly, and it’s causing them and other people harm. The leaders they listen to tell them lies 24/7. All of that pisses me off.
Deal with it or don’t, makes no difference to me. But don’t be coming here telling me what “haters” we all are because we’re sick and tired of dealing with this bullshit.
AOC is a “communist” who is “selling” support for working people? What are your guys selling? Spelling out faux profanities with deer turds? Videos of assassinations? Lie upon lie upon lie about the election, about January 6?
You have a hell of a nerve coming here telling us about our “complete lack of empathy”. Take that BS elsewhere.
I got four out of five grand-nieces and -nephews infected with Covid, that they caught in schools, because where they live the school systems insist that kids attend in person, in some cases with no requirement to wear a mask, and the communities they live in are full of people who refuse to observe basic public health protocols.
My brother in law is bouncing between the hospital and rehab because he’s got West Nile. Because Phoenix had a really wet summer and there are mosquitoes everywhere. His family can’t come see him because he didn’t get vaxed, because he fills his head full of crap from Fox etc. and getting a freaking vaccine is, in his mind, some kind of nanny-state intrusion on his life.
These people are my blood. I guess I could just say, “Hey, live your life, it’s your choice”, but I’d really rather they weren’t catching fucking preventable viruses and having to go through months of horrifying medical procedures with no family contact.
That’s where I’m coming from.
People are behaving really stupidly, and it’s causing them and other people harm. The leaders they listen to tell them lies 24/7. All of that pisses me off.
Deal with it or don’t, makes no difference to me. But don’t be coming here telling me what “haters” we all are because we’re sick and tired of dealing with this bullshit.
AOC is a “communist” who is “selling” support for working people? What are your guys selling? Spelling out faux profanities with deer turds? Videos of assassinations? Lie upon lie upon lie about the election, about January 6?
You have a hell of a nerve coming here telling us about our “complete lack of empathy”. Take that BS elsewhere.
But if you will also opposed those “good people”, you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever.
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp. Insofar as a few good people may call themselves Republicans and stand for office, they assist with the enhancement and/or preservation of a political disease. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution. This has been for the most part true since the Gilded Age (Spencerism) and the demise of Progressive Republicans in the 1920’s. If they want to clean house, go for it.
Unfortunately, for the most part, they don’t. In our FPTP system, they are wedded to their lunatic base, just like Dems have to deal with theirs (less lunatic by far..lol).
There will always be two or more parties. That’s the way humans and their conflicts over who gets the stuff roll. You want two or more ‘responsible’ parties? Well, OK. If it makes you happy, we can have a center-left party, and a left party. Count’em….two.
But if you will also opposed those “good people”, you are ceding the GOP to the lunatics forever.
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp. Insofar as a few good people may call themselves Republicans and stand for office, they assist with the enhancement and/or preservation of a political disease. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution. This has been for the most part true since the Gilded Age (Spencerism) and the demise of Progressive Republicans in the 1920’s. If they want to clean house, go for it.
Unfortunately, for the most part, they don’t. In our FPTP system, they are wedded to their lunatic base, just like Dems have to deal with theirs (less lunatic by far..lol).
There will always be two or more parties. That’s the way humans and their conflicts over who gets the stuff roll. You want two or more ‘responsible’ parties? Well, OK. If it makes you happy, we can have a center-left party, and a left party. Count’em….two.
You want two or more ‘responsible’ parties? Well, OK. If it makes you happy, we can have a center-left party, and a left party. Count’em….two.
Fine. I can live with that. Now all you need is a plausible path from today to there. Got one?
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp.
So, you put party over country. (Because that’s what you’re saying, like it or not.) Good to know. Gives you the primary qualification to be a GOP member of Congress.
You want two or more ‘responsible’ parties? Well, OK. If it makes you happy, we can have a center-left party, and a left party. Count’em….two.
Fine. I can live with that. Now all you need is a plausible path from today to there. Got one?
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp.
So, you put party over country. (Because that’s what you’re saying, like it or not.) Good to know. Gives you the primary qualification to be a GOP member of Congress.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/13/when-do-we-get-to-use-the-guns/
He seems to be behind a bit on the conservative movement shitgeist.
“But there’s a problem here that needs to be addressed.”
Agreed.
But when you find the address, make sure you are wearing bullet-proof vests and have SWAT team-level backup.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/13/when-do-we-get-to-use-the-guns/
He seems to be behind a bit on the conservative movement shitgeist.
“But there’s a problem here that needs to be addressed.”
Agreed.
But when you find the address, make sure you are wearing bullet-proof vests and have SWAT team-level backup.
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp.
So, you put party over country.
Let me come at this from a different angle.
There is pretty much nothing people like me or Bobbyp *can* do to reform the GOP, other than crush them at the polls.
Do you think anyone in the national GOP, or really anywhere in the GOP, is interested in what I think? What levers are available to me to engage with and persuade them that the direction they’re taking is not a good one?
The answer is: None. There are none.
If they lose elections a lot, in a lot of places, they’ll figure it out. Short of that, they won’t.
So best and most productive path forward for me and people like me is help (D)’s win elections. If for no other reason than to persuade (R)’s that they have become bankrupt, ideologically and ethically.
The only thing People Like Me can do, to do what you ask, is try to crush the (R) party like bugs.
You are a conservative. Marty, McK, you guys are conservatives. You can register (R), show up at places where candidates are nominated and policy planks are hammered out, and perhaps make a dent.
That is available to you. Not to me, not to bobbyp.
It would be great if you would do that.
It is not my job, or the job of the Democratic Party to assist with the ‘reform’ of the GOP. Our job is to beat them to a pulp.
So, you put party over country.
Let me come at this from a different angle.
There is pretty much nothing people like me or Bobbyp *can* do to reform the GOP, other than crush them at the polls.
Do you think anyone in the national GOP, or really anywhere in the GOP, is interested in what I think? What levers are available to me to engage with and persuade them that the direction they’re taking is not a good one?
The answer is: None. There are none.
If they lose elections a lot, in a lot of places, they’ll figure it out. Short of that, they won’t.
So best and most productive path forward for me and people like me is help (D)’s win elections. If for no other reason than to persuade (R)’s that they have become bankrupt, ideologically and ethically.
The only thing People Like Me can do, to do what you ask, is try to crush the (R) party like bugs.
You are a conservative. Marty, McK, you guys are conservatives. You can register (R), show up at places where candidates are nominated and policy planks are hammered out, and perhaps make a dent.
That is available to you. Not to me, not to bobbyp.
It would be great if you would do that.
Anybody who thinks the Democrats could ever establish one-party rule here in America never heard of Will Rogers. Biden, Manchin, and Bernie are members of “one party” the same way Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin were. (Actually less so: at least The Big Three could get their shit together enough to unanimously demand Hitler’s unconditional surrender.) The closest Democrats ever got to one-party rule, they created Social Security. Second-closest, Medicare. And even then, conservaDems were the skunks at the garden party.
You know what really would be one-party government?
Perpetual bipartisanship, that’s what.
–TP
Anybody who thinks the Democrats could ever establish one-party rule here in America never heard of Will Rogers. Biden, Manchin, and Bernie are members of “one party” the same way Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin were. (Actually less so: at least The Big Three could get their shit together enough to unanimously demand Hitler’s unconditional surrender.) The closest Democrats ever got to one-party rule, they created Social Security. Second-closest, Medicare. And even then, conservaDems were the skunks at the garden party.
You know what really would be one-party government?
Perpetual bipartisanship, that’s what.
–TP
Welcome back, GftNC!
–TP
Welcome back, GftNC!
–TP
There is pretty much nothing people like me or Bobbyp *can* do to reform the GOP, other than crush them at the polls.
Agreed that there is very little you can do. Very little, but not nothing. That little is helping the occasional sane Republican win, while the nutters lose. Or, at least, help a sane Republican lose by a bit less in a safe Democratic seat.
It’s similar to the way that, in our open primaries, I will vote for a more conservative of the plausible Democrats on offer. No chance of a Republican, even a sane one, making it to the general election in most cases, so I go for what might make a difference. Otherwise I leave the field to people like my current (D) Assemblywoman, who ran a campaign with a devotion to truth worthy of Trump.
There is pretty much nothing people like me or Bobbyp *can* do to reform the GOP, other than crush them at the polls.
Agreed that there is very little you can do. Very little, but not nothing. That little is helping the occasional sane Republican win, while the nutters lose. Or, at least, help a sane Republican lose by a bit less in a safe Democratic seat.
It’s similar to the way that, in our open primaries, I will vote for a more conservative of the plausible Democrats on offer. No chance of a Republican, even a sane one, making it to the general election in most cases, so I go for what might make a difference. Otherwise I leave the field to people like my current (D) Assemblywoman, who ran a campaign with a devotion to truth worthy of Trump.
What Tony said. Hope you are reaching the point where we see you regularly once again.
What Tony said. Hope you are reaching the point where we see you regularly once again.
I somehow missed this last week. You may have, too.
Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) said he would reward a minimum of $25,000 to tipsters who uncovered credible instances of voter fraud. Last week came the first payoff. To a Democratic pollwatcher who caught a Republican trying to vote twice. Mildly amazing that Patrick actually delivered.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/22/dan-patrick-reward-poll-watcher/
I somehow missed this last week. You may have, too.
Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) said he would reward a minimum of $25,000 to tipsters who uncovered credible instances of voter fraud. Last week came the first payoff. To a Democratic pollwatcher who caught a Republican trying to vote twice. Mildly amazing that Patrick actually delivered.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/22/dan-patrick-reward-poll-watcher/
Am I allowed to hate this?
https://thehill.com/node/581443
I’m no constitutional scholar, but this sounds like a problem. Then again, AOC exists, so it probably doesn’t matter.
Am I allowed to hate this?
https://thehill.com/node/581443
I’m no constitutional scholar, but this sounds like a problem. Then again, AOC exists, so it probably doesn’t matter.
The more I see from Flynn, the more I think the Army needs to urgently identify and repair the epic fail that allowed someone so ignorant of the Constitution to become a general at all, let alone a 4 star. Usually, they do better. But somewhere they slipped up big time with that guy.
The more I see from Flynn, the more I think the Army needs to urgently identify and repair the epic fail that allowed someone so ignorant of the Constitution to become a general at all, let alone a 4 star. Usually, they do better. But somewhere they slipped up big time with that guy.
“That little is helping the occasional sane Republican win, while the nutters lose.
For decades, since the 1986 election, my strategy was to register as a Republican and vote for the sane one in the primaries.
Then nearly always vote for the sane Democrat in the general.
Newt Gingrich put the kibosh on that and then his radical offspring put an end to that as they expressly targeted even rockrib traditional conservative RINOs for defeat in the primaries.
I gave that up in 2008.
Now, even Gingrich’s nutcase recruits 30 years ago appear, what?, statesman-like, though many of them have burrowed themselves into radical rightwing tenure at various conservative country club political soirees.
Take a look at the Senate Republican primary race in Ohio.
There’s not a lever labeled “sane” to pull. It’s asshole versus jagoff all the way down the ticket.
No, either America goes forward without the Republican Party or we take America down to the vet for
the dirt nap injection, since frequent deworming seems a lost cause.
By the way, look at Trump’s campaign manager, Vlad Putin, and his anti-Biden, anti-NATO, anti-immigrant machinations in Ukraine and Belarus, designed to once again disrupt America’s foreign policy to destroy a Democrat in the White House on behalf of American conservative fellow fascists, who lick Putin’s face to internalize more of his pro-Trump Novichok.
Yeah, but AOC is a Communist bartender.
By the way, it’s time for her to come over the bar with truncheon and defend herself with violence against Gosar and a few others in self-defense.
Only Republican politicians get away with threatening to murder their colleagues and enemies.
You’d think the rabble losers who are receiving taps on the wrists for attempting to violently overthrow the US government and murder Democrats and the fake Christian, Trump-idolator Pence would grow pence-sive about how the skunk pieces of Republican shit who put them up to 1/6 are walking around as free men and women.
Hell, those same vermin politicos were attempting to murder their Democratic colleague enemies they got stuck with during the insurrection by infecting them with the Covid-19 virus by not wearing masks in an enclosed area.
It was a conservstive pincher movement.
And, yes, I hate their fucking guts.
“That little is helping the occasional sane Republican win, while the nutters lose.
For decades, since the 1986 election, my strategy was to register as a Republican and vote for the sane one in the primaries.
Then nearly always vote for the sane Democrat in the general.
Newt Gingrich put the kibosh on that and then his radical offspring put an end to that as they expressly targeted even rockrib traditional conservative RINOs for defeat in the primaries.
I gave that up in 2008.
Now, even Gingrich’s nutcase recruits 30 years ago appear, what?, statesman-like, though many of them have burrowed themselves into radical rightwing tenure at various conservative country club political soirees.
Take a look at the Senate Republican primary race in Ohio.
There’s not a lever labeled “sane” to pull. It’s asshole versus jagoff all the way down the ticket.
No, either America goes forward without the Republican Party or we take America down to the vet for
the dirt nap injection, since frequent deworming seems a lost cause.
By the way, look at Trump’s campaign manager, Vlad Putin, and his anti-Biden, anti-NATO, anti-immigrant machinations in Ukraine and Belarus, designed to once again disrupt America’s foreign policy to destroy a Democrat in the White House on behalf of American conservative fellow fascists, who lick Putin’s face to internalize more of his pro-Trump Novichok.
Yeah, but AOC is a Communist bartender.
By the way, it’s time for her to come over the bar with truncheon and defend herself with violence against Gosar and a few others in self-defense.
Only Republican politicians get away with threatening to murder their colleagues and enemies.
You’d think the rabble losers who are receiving taps on the wrists for attempting to violently overthrow the US government and murder Democrats and the fake Christian, Trump-idolator Pence would grow pence-sive about how the skunk pieces of Republican shit who put them up to 1/6 are walking around as free men and women.
Hell, those same vermin politicos were attempting to murder their Democratic colleague enemies they got stuck with during the insurrection by infecting them with the Covid-19 virus by not wearing masks in an enclosed area.
It was a conservstive pincher movement.
And, yes, I hate their fucking guts.
those same vermin politicos were attempting to murder their Democratic colleague enemies they got stuck with during the insurrection by infecting them with the Covid-19 virus by not wearing masks in an enclosed area.
But, being stupid, they missed the detail that said colleagues were mostly vaccinated, while their fellow scum often were not.
It’s like the superspreader rallies Trump supporters attend, proudly refusing to were masks. Just a pity evolution moves so slowly, bacuase they seemed determined to cull themselves from the gene pool.
those same vermin politicos were attempting to murder their Democratic colleague enemies they got stuck with during the insurrection by infecting them with the Covid-19 virus by not wearing masks in an enclosed area.
But, being stupid, they missed the detail that said colleagues were mostly vaccinated, while their fellow scum often were not.
It’s like the superspreader rallies Trump supporters attend, proudly refusing to were masks. Just a pity evolution moves so slowly, bacuase they seemed determined to cull themselves from the gene pool.
I could drive approximately an hour and a half to Barrasso’s Wyoming State Capitol and chant some murderous horseshit and be shot dead within minutes.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/14/its-common-sense/
Yeah, both sides.
I could drive approximately an hour and a half to Barrasso’s Wyoming State Capitol and chant some murderous horseshit and be shot dead within minutes.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/14/its-common-sense/
Yeah, both sides.
‘We have to have one religion’
The very first words, of the very first article in the bill of rights:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”.
The country Flynn wants to live in is not the United States.
And wj, I appreciate what you’re saying about helping the less nutty (R)’s. I live in MA, we’ve had a series of less-nutty (R)’s as governors, and I’m fine with it.
But given the choice of supporting a less-nutty (R) and a (D), I am almost certainly going to support the (D), because in addition to being less nutty, the (D)’s policies are probably going to be closer to my own values than the (R)’s.
I’ll repeat what I said above – the shortest path to reforming the (R) party is for American conservatives to engage with the party and change its direction. You can do that. For any practical purpose, I cannot.
I would very much encourage conservatives who are unhappy with the direction of the (R) party to get involved and re-direct that party. If possible. The nation and the world would benefit.
‘We have to have one religion’
The very first words, of the very first article in the bill of rights:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”.
The country Flynn wants to live in is not the United States.
And wj, I appreciate what you’re saying about helping the less nutty (R)’s. I live in MA, we’ve had a series of less-nutty (R)’s as governors, and I’m fine with it.
But given the choice of supporting a less-nutty (R) and a (D), I am almost certainly going to support the (D), because in addition to being less nutty, the (D)’s policies are probably going to be closer to my own values than the (R)’s.
I’ll repeat what I said above – the shortest path to reforming the (R) party is for American conservatives to engage with the party and change its direction. You can do that. For any practical purpose, I cannot.
I would very much encourage conservatives who are unhappy with the direction of the (R) party to get involved and re-direct that party. If possible. The nation and the world would benefit.
I’ll also say that reforming the (R) party will probably mean cutting Trump loose. Because he is who he is, and he is highly unlikely to change.
And that, in turn, will probably mean losing the support of their base. Because a lot of the (R) base appears to love the kind of hostile belligerent crap that Trump and his ilk traffic in.
And all of that will mean losing some elections.
If American conservatives are willing to pay that price, IMO they have a shot at turning their party around and making a constructive contribution to the nation’s governance and the nation’s future.
Otherwise, probably not.
Up to you all. Not my circus, etc.
I’ll also say that reforming the (R) party will probably mean cutting Trump loose. Because he is who he is, and he is highly unlikely to change.
And that, in turn, will probably mean losing the support of their base. Because a lot of the (R) base appears to love the kind of hostile belligerent crap that Trump and his ilk traffic in.
And all of that will mean losing some elections.
If American conservatives are willing to pay that price, IMO they have a shot at turning their party around and making a constructive contribution to the nation’s governance and the nation’s future.
Otherwise, probably not.
Up to you all. Not my circus, etc.
Republicans are not going to let Trump go. Republican media is not going to sober up.
we’re fucked.
only an asshole wouldn’t hate that.
Republicans are not going to let Trump go. Republican media is not going to sober up.
we’re fucked.
only an asshole wouldn’t hate that.
I’ll also say that reforming the (R) party will probably mean cutting Trump loose. Because he is who he is, and he is highly unlikely to change.
I’d say that it will require not just “letting Trump go” but visibly, officially, and loudly rejecting him. I’m not sure whether that would be easier before or after he is dead. Probably the former; after seems likely to involve sainthood, alas.
I suspect the cleek is right about the right wing
newsentertainment complex. Maybe someone with sanity and a couple billion to spare will buy Fox News and totally remake it. Others will arise in it’s place, of course. But at least it would buy some time.I’ll also say that reforming the (R) party will probably mean cutting Trump loose. Because he is who he is, and he is highly unlikely to change.
I’d say that it will require not just “letting Trump go” but visibly, officially, and loudly rejecting him. I’m not sure whether that would be easier before or after he is dead. Probably the former; after seems likely to involve sainthood, alas.
I suspect the cleek is right about the right wing
newsentertainment complex. Maybe someone with sanity and a couple billion to spare will buy Fox News and totally remake it. Others will arise in it’s place, of course. But at least it would buy some time.Thanks, Tony P and wj.
But boy, the weird is certainly ramping up….
Thanks, Tony P and wj.
But boy, the weird is certainly ramping up….
The fact that we are here being told that the country is in such bad shape because the far left is too elitist while the right is attempting to capture the institutions that certify elections so that they can nullify the results of those elections makes me despair more than just about anything I can think of.
Too little too late from the right for two decades while their own side marched towards this extreme. And we warned you. Y’all could not save your own party. You let yourselves get forced out and went along with all the power grabs and said that it was better than what the Ds would do to the country.
But now that it’s too late, it’s still our duty to reach towards the right and try to coax people to join in saving the country or it will be our fault that the right carries through on all the stuff that the swingers gave them permission to build with no resistance or cost.
Who is left to save? Who can look at this state of affairs and still say that they will vote for a person who will enable Trump? That bridge got lit on fire on Jan 6 and the GOP and rw media watched it burn and took potshots at anyone who tried to put out the fire.
What is anyone saveable still doing on the far side of the bridge?
The fact that we are here being told that the country is in such bad shape because the far left is too elitist while the right is attempting to capture the institutions that certify elections so that they can nullify the results of those elections makes me despair more than just about anything I can think of.
Too little too late from the right for two decades while their own side marched towards this extreme. And we warned you. Y’all could not save your own party. You let yourselves get forced out and went along with all the power grabs and said that it was better than what the Ds would do to the country.
But now that it’s too late, it’s still our duty to reach towards the right and try to coax people to join in saving the country or it will be our fault that the right carries through on all the stuff that the swingers gave them permission to build with no resistance or cost.
Who is left to save? Who can look at this state of affairs and still say that they will vote for a person who will enable Trump? That bridge got lit on fire on Jan 6 and the GOP and rw media watched it burn and took potshots at anyone who tried to put out the fire.
What is anyone saveable still doing on the far side of the bridge?
Even a “sane Republican” governor of Massachusetts, given the power to name a replacement Senator should the opportunity arise, would appoint a Republican who would vote for McConnell to lead the Senate. The supposedly tolerable Charlie Baker endorsed Kerry’s MAGAt challenger, last election, and was explicit as to why: party solidarity.
Any politician who is still willing to be a member of the GOP is by definition a MAGAt enabler, because Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell will be the last two Republicans to renounce He, Trump and his “white working class” base of Christo-fascists.
–TP
Even a “sane Republican” governor of Massachusetts, given the power to name a replacement Senator should the opportunity arise, would appoint a Republican who would vote for McConnell to lead the Senate. The supposedly tolerable Charlie Baker endorsed Kerry’s MAGAt challenger, last election, and was explicit as to why: party solidarity.
Any politician who is still willing to be a member of the GOP is by definition a MAGAt enabler, because Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell will be the last two Republicans to renounce He, Trump and his “white working class” base of Christo-fascists.
–TP
The fact that we are here being told that the country is in such bad shape because the far left is too elitist
I, at least, wouldn’t put it that way. I would say that, for example, AOC’s proposed policies (even the ones I don’t particularly agree with) would do far more for the working class than the garbage policies that today’s GOP spouts. But frankly, you guys have done a piss poor job of explaining what you are doing in terms which that audience can hear. You have certainly made your case, just not in terms that your intended audience can hear.
Y’all could not save your own party. You let yourselves get forced out and went along with all the power grabs and said that it was better than what the Ds would do to the country.
Again no. It is true, alas, that we didn’t save our own party. And probably we could have done more. But it is NOT true that we all went along with the power grabs. And certainly not true, in particular of the people here, that we said that Trump et al were better than what the Ds would do to the country. No matter how critical we were of some of the stuff you would like to do.
Call us failures. That’s fair. But don’t claim that all of us have as little interest in anything but holding on to offices as the Congressional GOP.
But now that it’s too late, it’s still our duty to reach towards the right and try to coax people to join in saving the country or it will be our fault that the right carries through
Is it your duty to try? I would say it is. But it definitely will not be your fault if it doesn’t succeed. That will be on us.
The fact that we are here being told that the country is in such bad shape because the far left is too elitist
I, at least, wouldn’t put it that way. I would say that, for example, AOC’s proposed policies (even the ones I don’t particularly agree with) would do far more for the working class than the garbage policies that today’s GOP spouts. But frankly, you guys have done a piss poor job of explaining what you are doing in terms which that audience can hear. You have certainly made your case, just not in terms that your intended audience can hear.
Y’all could not save your own party. You let yourselves get forced out and went along with all the power grabs and said that it was better than what the Ds would do to the country.
Again no. It is true, alas, that we didn’t save our own party. And probably we could have done more. But it is NOT true that we all went along with the power grabs. And certainly not true, in particular of the people here, that we said that Trump et al were better than what the Ds would do to the country. No matter how critical we were of some of the stuff you would like to do.
Call us failures. That’s fair. But don’t claim that all of us have as little interest in anything but holding on to offices as the Congressional GOP.
But now that it’s too late, it’s still our duty to reach towards the right and try to coax people to join in saving the country or it will be our fault that the right carries through
Is it your duty to try? I would say it is. But it definitely will not be your fault if it doesn’t succeed. That will be on us.
Even a “sane Republican” governor of Massachusetts, given the power to name a replacement Senator should the opportunity arise, would appoint a Republican who would vote for McConnell to lead the Senate.
Precisely. Perhaps those ticket splitters in Maine who voted Biden, but returned Collins to the Senate will get a clue about the ramifications of voting for so-called ‘good’ Republicans.
Even a “sane Republican” governor of Massachusetts, given the power to name a replacement Senator should the opportunity arise, would appoint a Republican who would vote for McConnell to lead the Senate.
Precisely. Perhaps those ticket splitters in Maine who voted Biden, but returned Collins to the Senate will get a clue about the ramifications of voting for so-called ‘good’ Republicans.
But frankly, you guys have done a piss poor job of explaining what you are doing in terms which that audience can hear.
No. Wrong. They don’t hear anything other than what their chosen media outlets tell them the Ds are doing, and they don’t question those accounts of what the Ds are doing because they trust their own sources and mistrust the Ds and any sources that say anything good about the Ds policies.
The GOP politicians and media are Leninist propaganda organs. Full stop.
We are not part of the conversation.
Story of the last 20 years of family get-togethers.
Why is it, wj, that you still keep saying “you” and not “we” when it comes to how to reach the other side? What keeps you outside of the big tent?
Any of the people who crossed the aisle to vote yes on infrastructure could join Manchin and Tester as conservative Democrats and we would have bipartisanship self-contained in the majority. The Democratic Party is probably more than just bipartisan – it’s inherently a coalition caucus.
Yet the bridge remains uncrossable even for people like Sasse and Romney.
It’s not the left that is mired in identity politics.
But frankly, you guys have done a piss poor job of explaining what you are doing in terms which that audience can hear.
No. Wrong. They don’t hear anything other than what their chosen media outlets tell them the Ds are doing, and they don’t question those accounts of what the Ds are doing because they trust their own sources and mistrust the Ds and any sources that say anything good about the Ds policies.
The GOP politicians and media are Leninist propaganda organs. Full stop.
We are not part of the conversation.
Story of the last 20 years of family get-togethers.
Why is it, wj, that you still keep saying “you” and not “we” when it comes to how to reach the other side? What keeps you outside of the big tent?
Any of the people who crossed the aisle to vote yes on infrastructure could join Manchin and Tester as conservative Democrats and we would have bipartisanship self-contained in the majority. The Democratic Party is probably more than just bipartisan – it’s inherently a coalition caucus.
Yet the bridge remains uncrossable even for people like Sasse and Romney.
It’s not the left that is mired in identity politics.
Why is it, wj, that you still keep saying “you” and not “we” when it comes to how to reach the other side? What keeps you outside of the big tent?
As I mentioned above, I think the country needs two sane parties. And bleak as the prospects for a GOP return to sanity are, they still look better than those for a new party growing into a serious contender. And being “outside the big tent” doesn’t keep me from voting for Democrats.
Besides, I take a certain perverse pleasure in having some MAGA type call me a RINO and responding, “I’ve been a Republican since before you were born, child, so don’t try to give me that crap!”
Why is it, wj, that you still keep saying “you” and not “we” when it comes to how to reach the other side? What keeps you outside of the big tent?
As I mentioned above, I think the country needs two sane parties. And bleak as the prospects for a GOP return to sanity are, they still look better than those for a new party growing into a serious contender. And being “outside the big tent” doesn’t keep me from voting for Democrats.
Besides, I take a certain perverse pleasure in having some MAGA type call me a RINO and responding, “I’ve been a Republican since before you were born, child, so don’t try to give me that crap!”
wj: You have certainly made your case, just not in terms that your intended audience can hear.
Possibly true. But what “intended audience” do you have in mind, wj?
The “white working class”, perhaps? What if all that audience wants to hear is “The lowliest white man is superior to any black man, ’cause that’s how Jesus wants it”?
Or what if the audience you’re thinking of is the fix-it-but-don’t-change-anything camp: “improve my lot but don’t change my Way of Life, you soshulist elitist snob!”
How would “the intended audience” react if Biden came out and said: “Republicans are so opposed to my Build Back Better plan that I’m giving up on it. But not on making life better for YOU. So I am calling instead for one simple change to our tax laws: raising the personal exemption on the income tax to $65K. If you make less than that, you don’t pay ANY income tax. That way, you’ll have SOME help paying for childcare, or college, or — what the hell — coal, if that’s what makes you happy. Wanna bet Republicans will oppose that, too, even though it saves YOU money?”
I’m not interested in the merits of the idea; I’m asking how you, wj, imagine “our audience” would react to that “message”.
Incidentally, you seem dead-set against recognizing that if the entire GOP were Raptured to Supply-Side Heaven tomorrow, the Democrats would not split into (at least) two “sane parties” by Tuesday.
But it IS nice that you at least have the satisfaction of telling MAGAts off.
–TP
wj: You have certainly made your case, just not in terms that your intended audience can hear.
Possibly true. But what “intended audience” do you have in mind, wj?
The “white working class”, perhaps? What if all that audience wants to hear is “The lowliest white man is superior to any black man, ’cause that’s how Jesus wants it”?
Or what if the audience you’re thinking of is the fix-it-but-don’t-change-anything camp: “improve my lot but don’t change my Way of Life, you soshulist elitist snob!”
How would “the intended audience” react if Biden came out and said: “Republicans are so opposed to my Build Back Better plan that I’m giving up on it. But not on making life better for YOU. So I am calling instead for one simple change to our tax laws: raising the personal exemption on the income tax to $65K. If you make less than that, you don’t pay ANY income tax. That way, you’ll have SOME help paying for childcare, or college, or — what the hell — coal, if that’s what makes you happy. Wanna bet Republicans will oppose that, too, even though it saves YOU money?”
I’m not interested in the merits of the idea; I’m asking how you, wj, imagine “our audience” would react to that “message”.
Incidentally, you seem dead-set against recognizing that if the entire GOP were Raptured to Supply-Side Heaven tomorrow, the Democrats would not split into (at least) two “sane parties” by Tuesday.
But it IS nice that you at least have the satisfaction of telling MAGAts off.
–TP
The “white working class”, perhaps? What if all that audience wants to hear is “The lowliest white man is superior to any black man, ’cause that’s how Jesus wants it”?
The part of the audience who wants that message is, agreed, unreachable. But I believe that they are a minority of the white working class. The majority will take that if nothing they see as better is on offer. But make the case on “kitchen table issues” and you can reel them in.
And even if I’m wrong, and a majority is that racist, you don’t need all of them, or even most of them. Peel off 10%, and you’re in the driver’s seat.
Is it doable? I think it is. Is it being done? Not so much. Here’s hoping the Democrats effectively advertise what their current legislation is doing. For a change.
The “white working class”, perhaps? What if all that audience wants to hear is “The lowliest white man is superior to any black man, ’cause that’s how Jesus wants it”?
The part of the audience who wants that message is, agreed, unreachable. But I believe that they are a minority of the white working class. The majority will take that if nothing they see as better is on offer. But make the case on “kitchen table issues” and you can reel them in.
And even if I’m wrong, and a majority is that racist, you don’t need all of them, or even most of them. Peel off 10%, and you’re in the driver’s seat.
Is it doable? I think it is. Is it being done? Not so much. Here’s hoping the Democrats effectively advertise what their current legislation is doing. For a change.
I’m not interested in the merits of the idea; I’m asking how you, wj, imagine “our audience” would react to that “message”.
I think they would be good with it. IF you make clear that it is targetted at them, and not at improving life for those on welfare. (Even if they are, whether they admit it to themselves or not, on welfare.)
It’s just like you could sell UBI** if you talk about how it will be partially paid for by scrapping the “welfare system.” Doesn’t matter that it would mean more money (and a lot less hassle) for those on welfare. Or that it would effectively eliminate “workfare.” You sell it on what they are able to hear.
Incidentally, you seem dead-set against recognizing that if the entire GOP were Raptured to Supply-Side Heaven tomorrow, the Democrats would not split into (at least) two “sane parties” by Tuesday. [I think you didn’t intend that “not” ;-)]
If the GOP politicians, and wannabe politicians, were gone, so the party was gone, lock stock and mailing lists (including the Fox “News” branch)? Sure, the Dems might split. Or maybe a new demagogue/con man would grasp the opportunity. No problem seeing that. What I don’t see is a way to create a new, viable, party of governance without that disappearance.
** I’ve got a post on The Conservative Case for UBI which I hope to get up next week.
I’m not interested in the merits of the idea; I’m asking how you, wj, imagine “our audience” would react to that “message”.
I think they would be good with it. IF you make clear that it is targetted at them, and not at improving life for those on welfare. (Even if they are, whether they admit it to themselves or not, on welfare.)
It’s just like you could sell UBI** if you talk about how it will be partially paid for by scrapping the “welfare system.” Doesn’t matter that it would mean more money (and a lot less hassle) for those on welfare. Or that it would effectively eliminate “workfare.” You sell it on what they are able to hear.
Incidentally, you seem dead-set against recognizing that if the entire GOP were Raptured to Supply-Side Heaven tomorrow, the Democrats would not split into (at least) two “sane parties” by Tuesday. [I think you didn’t intend that “not” ;-)]
If the GOP politicians, and wannabe politicians, were gone, so the party was gone, lock stock and mailing lists (including the Fox “News” branch)? Sure, the Dems might split. Or maybe a new demagogue/con man would grasp the opportunity. No problem seeing that. What I don’t see is a way to create a new, viable, party of governance without that disappearance.
** I’ve got a post on The Conservative Case for UBI which I hope to get up next week.
Sure, the Dems might split.
Are you kidding? Might? Seriously?
Sure, the Dems might split.
Are you kidding? Might? Seriously?
Jennifer Rubin echoes your thinking, wj. But I would aver it is a fundamentally flawed political take. The Dem message is indeed muffled, but nonetheless, it strikes me that the marginal cost of ‘getting’ not so dyed in the wool Republicans is a lot higher than getting new voters predisposed to their point of view out to vote. They are, after all, Republicans in the first place. There are reasons why that is so.
The Dems have been chasing the center ever since Reagan. Overall, results are mixed. This also contributes to their ‘muddled’ message.
This needs to change. One of the great insights of the Weyrich’s and Rove’s is their no holds barred take no prisoners approach and their strategy of attacking what is perceived to be the opponent’s strength.
Democratic strategists might be well served by taking a closer look at this approach, because right now, all they are good for is hovering money up from the base.
Jennifer Rubin echoes your thinking, wj. But I would aver it is a fundamentally flawed political take. The Dem message is indeed muffled, but nonetheless, it strikes me that the marginal cost of ‘getting’ not so dyed in the wool Republicans is a lot higher than getting new voters predisposed to their point of view out to vote. They are, after all, Republicans in the first place. There are reasons why that is so.
The Dems have been chasing the center ever since Reagan. Overall, results are mixed. This also contributes to their ‘muddled’ message.
This needs to change. One of the great insights of the Weyrich’s and Rove’s is their no holds barred take no prisoners approach and their strategy of attacking what is perceived to be the opponent’s strength.
Democratic strategists might be well served by taking a closer look at this approach, because right now, all they are good for is hovering money up from the base.
I think that wj is right that a fraction of the wwc is nonracist and probably reachable. I don’t know what fraction or whether it is a majority or minority but it is likely enough to make a difference.
A big chunk of the blame here is on the media, which much prefers horse race journalism and talk about “ trillions” without explaining that over ten years it is less than half the pentagon budget. But more to the point, the press, with some exceptions, does not explain what the BBB in its original form would do for working people. They prefer the usual superficial coverage which doesn’t require them to go into the details of what is at stake.
That said, the media isn’t going to change, so Democrats have to do the best they can with a right wing media which is demagogic and a mainstream media which is mostly superficial and useless.
I think that wj is right that a fraction of the wwc is nonracist and probably reachable. I don’t know what fraction or whether it is a majority or minority but it is likely enough to make a difference.
A big chunk of the blame here is on the media, which much prefers horse race journalism and talk about “ trillions” without explaining that over ten years it is less than half the pentagon budget. But more to the point, the press, with some exceptions, does not explain what the BBB in its original form would do for working people. They prefer the usual superficial coverage which doesn’t require them to go into the details of what is at stake.
That said, the media isn’t going to change, so Democrats have to do the best they can with a right wing media which is demagogic and a mainstream media which is mostly superficial and useless.
Hey, inertia.
1) By the time everybody decides they can believe our good fortune, the next demagogue may be in sight. Not seeing a split when there’s a chance it would leave pieces both smaller than the neo-MAGAs.
2) Not to mention the inevitable squabbling over the Democratic Party assets and infrastructure.
Hey, inertia.
1) By the time everybody decides they can believe our good fortune, the next demagogue may be in sight. Not seeing a split when there’s a chance it would leave pieces both smaller than the neo-MAGAs.
2) Not to mention the inevitable squabbling over the Democratic Party assets and infrastructure.
it strikes me that the marginal cost of ‘getting’ not so dyed in the wool Republicans is a lot higher than getting new voters predisposed to their point of view out to vote
Not sure on the marginal cost. But absolutely the Dems need to put more effort into get-out-the-vote. Especially for state and local elections. There’s really no excuse for how much more Dem turnout drops for off-year elections.
it strikes me that the marginal cost of ‘getting’ not so dyed in the wool Republicans is a lot higher than getting new voters predisposed to their point of view out to vote
Not sure on the marginal cost. But absolutely the Dems need to put more effort into get-out-the-vote. Especially for state and local elections. There’s really no excuse for how much more Dem turnout drops for off-year elections.
Dems have put a ton of effort into getting out the vote. Why do you think the GOP has been working so hard to criminalize that work and cast it into doubt?
The answer should not be “the Dems just need to work harder” when the real problem is the blatant suppression of voters.
Dems have put a ton of effort into getting out the vote. Why do you think the GOP has been working so hard to criminalize that work and cast it into doubt?
The answer should not be “the Dems just need to work harder” when the real problem is the blatant suppression of voters.
The answer should not be “the Dems just need to work harder” when the real problem is the blatant suppression of voters.
Certainly vote suppression is a problem. But what I was saying is that the Democrats need to work as hard to get out the vote in every election as they do in presidential elections.
Because, voter suppression or no, that is a long standing problem. Address it, and voter suppression is far less likely to get the job done for the supprressors. Still an abomination, and worth fighting to beat it back. But its effectiveness can and should be attacked as well.
The answer should not be “the Dems just need to work harder” when the real problem is the blatant suppression of voters.
Certainly vote suppression is a problem. But what I was saying is that the Democrats need to work as hard to get out the vote in every election as they do in presidential elections.
Because, voter suppression or no, that is a long standing problem. Address it, and voter suppression is far less likely to get the job done for the supprressors. Still an abomination, and worth fighting to beat it back. But its effectiveness can and should be attacked as well.
When voter suppression efforts can be obscured by class based appeals, it becomes easy for the white voter to simply sit on their hands and argue that Dems ‘don’t want it enough’.
When voter suppression efforts can be obscured by class based appeals, it becomes easy for the white voter to simply sit on their hands and argue that Dems ‘don’t want it enough’.
I think the country needs two sane parties.
there are at least two inside the Democratic party right now.
I think the country needs two sane parties.
there are at least two inside the Democratic party right now.
Bad faith racist white voters can use any argument they want, but I would expect them to talk obsessively about CRT, statues, and fear of crime— the dog whistles are fairly recognizable. People like Dreher will talk about bathrooms— a different type of dog whistle. And the press is fixated on horse race journalism and making heroes of “ moderates”. Democrats are on their own.
It is also possible to do two things at once— sometimes even three. You can appeal to class interest, by loudly pointing out the benefits to working class people ( not just we’ve) of the BBB and denounce racist voter suppression efforts and fight hysteria about bathrooms. In fact, one probably should do these things.
Bad faith racist white voters can use any argument they want, but I would expect them to talk obsessively about CRT, statues, and fear of crime— the dog whistles are fairly recognizable. People like Dreher will talk about bathrooms— a different type of dog whistle. And the press is fixated on horse race journalism and making heroes of “ moderates”. Democrats are on their own.
It is also possible to do two things at once— sometimes even three. You can appeal to class interest, by loudly pointing out the benefits to working class people ( not just we’ve) of the BBB and denounce racist voter suppression efforts and fight hysteria about bathrooms. In fact, one probably should do these things.
Though fear of crime is also a legitimate issue. It is at the same time a dog whistle. That one is tricky, and the 90’s era Democrats like Clinton pandered to the dog whistlers by executing Ricky Ray Rector and denouncing Sister Souljah. Democrats shouldn’t do that.
Though fear of crime is also a legitimate issue. It is at the same time a dog whistle. That one is tricky, and the 90’s era Democrats like Clinton pandered to the dog whistlers by executing Ricky Ray Rector and denouncing Sister Souljah. Democrats shouldn’t do that.
there are at least two inside the Democratic party right now.
Except for this detail: that means that maybe 1/3 of voters (not only not Republicans, but not independents as well) get to pick the only sane candidate. Not a Democrat, and so not able to vote in their primary? Sorry, only one sane candidate on offer when November rolls around.
there are at least two inside the Democratic party right now.
Except for this detail: that means that maybe 1/3 of voters (not only not Republicans, but not independents as well) get to pick the only sane candidate. Not a Democrat, and so not able to vote in their primary? Sorry, only one sane candidate on offer when November rolls around.
Btw, anyone who follows the Israeli- Palestinian issue will be extremely familiar with legitimate concerns simultaneously used as racist dog whistles and how politicians deal with them ineptly when they aren’t simply siding with the racists. I could go on and on and on about this— example after example of outright BS and evasion and cowardice and lies. And yet the concerns are also legitimate.
Btw, anyone who follows the Israeli- Palestinian issue will be extremely familiar with legitimate concerns simultaneously used as racist dog whistles and how politicians deal with them ineptly when they aren’t simply siding with the racists. I could go on and on and on about this— example after example of outright BS and evasion and cowardice and lies. And yet the concerns are also legitimate.
The we’ve in my earlier post was a computer correction of wwc.
Another post on the Asian American vote and education issues, both in NYC and Virginia. I didn’t quite understand the last paragraph.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/opinion/republican-democrat-asian-voter.html
This thread seems dead, but the link is worth reading.
The we’ve in my earlier post was a computer correction of wwc.
Another post on the Asian American vote and education issues, both in NYC and Virginia. I didn’t quite understand the last paragraph.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/opinion/republican-democrat-asian-voter.html
This thread seems dead, but the link is worth reading.
And this was good.
https://theintercept.com/2021/11/15/democrats-voters-virginia-glenn-youngkin/
And this was good.
https://theintercept.com/2021/11/15/democrats-voters-virginia-glenn-youngkin/
I didn’t quite understand the last paragraph
I thought the last paragraph was pretty clear. The author is of the opinion that just running against Trump (and his fans) won’t be sufficient going forward. Democrats will need some messaging focused on peoples’ real concerns — which, he feels McAuliffe failed to do.
I didn’t quite understand the last paragraph
I thought the last paragraph was pretty clear. The author is of the opinion that just running against Trump (and his fans) won’t be sufficient going forward. Democrats will need some messaging focused on peoples’ real concerns — which, he feels McAuliffe failed to do.
I got most of it, but policy proposals if explained in real terms ( medicine you can afford, paid family leave when you really need it) seems like an important thing to push. It can’t be a wonkfest, but it doesn’t need to be. ( Paid family leave and some other good things are mostly dead, but whatever is left of the BBB that helps people could be explained. I have kind of assumed that after the infrastructure bill passed, the BBB is likely dead, so I forget what is left of it.)
But otherwise I get what he is saying.
I got most of it, but policy proposals if explained in real terms ( medicine you can afford, paid family leave when you really need it) seems like an important thing to push. It can’t be a wonkfest, but it doesn’t need to be. ( Paid family leave and some other good things are mostly dead, but whatever is left of the BBB that helps people could be explained. I have kind of assumed that after the infrastructure bill passed, the BBB is likely dead, so I forget what is left of it.)
But otherwise I get what he is saying.
Also WRT that last paragraph, the Dems need to find a way to un-divide the education issues. Parents feel landed upon bc of a lack of in-person care for their children, but teachers have legitimate concerns for public health if the return does not meet the guidelines in the reports anchoring the “safe to return” studies.
The divide on this is a function of anti-union framing. Dems have to find messaging that puts teachers and parents on the same page, working for the same goals. This can be done. Teachers want to support the wellbeing of their students. The Dems need to fight hard on this point with very clear and simple messaging.
Also WRT that last paragraph, the Dems need to find a way to un-divide the education issues. Parents feel landed upon bc of a lack of in-person care for their children, but teachers have legitimate concerns for public health if the return does not meet the guidelines in the reports anchoring the “safe to return” studies.
The divide on this is a function of anti-union framing. Dems have to find messaging that puts teachers and parents on the same page, working for the same goals. This can be done. Teachers want to support the wellbeing of their students. The Dems need to fight hard on this point with very clear and simple messaging.
it kindof doesn’t matter what the Dems do.
what has driven our elections in the past few years has been the GOP’s viral disinfo releases. and the media shows no sign of getting wise to it.
so, if the GOP can come up with something catchy, the media will spread it, and people will come down with it.
if the GOP’s lab releases something only moderately infectious, the Dems will stand a chance.
it kindof doesn’t matter what the Dems do.
what has driven our elections in the past few years has been the GOP’s viral disinfo releases. and the media shows no sign of getting wise to it.
so, if the GOP can come up with something catchy, the media will spread it, and people will come down with it.
if the GOP’s lab releases something only moderately infectious, the Dems will stand a chance.
I saw Anne Applebaum talking about this on C4 News last night, how autocratic dictators with nothing else in common have started cooperating around the world, and what it means for democracies:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/12/the-autocrats-are-winning/620526/
And this was Alastair Campbell talking in Germany recently, sent approvingly to me by a friend who had always been a Conservative, from a deeply, historically Conservative family:
https://alastaircampbell.org/2021/10/johnson-not-a-joke-nor-a-joker-definitely-not-trivial-but-a-sado-populist-threat-to-liberal-democracy/
I saw Anne Applebaum talking about this on C4 News last night, how autocratic dictators with nothing else in common have started cooperating around the world, and what it means for democracies:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/12/the-autocrats-are-winning/620526/
And this was Alastair Campbell talking in Germany recently, sent approvingly to me by a friend who had always been a Conservative, from a deeply, historically Conservative family:
https://alastaircampbell.org/2021/10/johnson-not-a-joke-nor-a-joker-definitely-not-trivial-but-a-sado-populist-threat-to-liberal-democracy/
I read the Campbell piece, which made me anxious enough that I need a break before hitting The Atlantic. But a good read. Thanks, and glad to see you back, GftNC.
It does leave me wondering what a not-entirely-gone Trump (or Johnson) supporter would think about the analysis of sado-populism Campbell provided. Would there be any recognition at all?
I read the Campbell piece, which made me anxious enough that I need a break before hitting The Atlantic. But a good read. Thanks, and glad to see you back, GftNC.
It does leave me wondering what a not-entirely-gone Trump (or Johnson) supporter would think about the analysis of sado-populism Campbell provided. Would there be any recognition at all?
“Dictatorship requires ever tightening power structures within the centre of government. It requires media control, and the packing of institutions with like-minded, non-independent people. It involves the elevation of propaganda to a level that objective truth is deliberately debased. ”
This is at the heart of the Camlbell article, IMO. This is the challenge. It is true of all of our politics. The central government across decades has slowly yet inexorably tightened its grip. The Presidency has no accountability and more power with each successive President while the Congress slowly cedes that power because the sadist on both sides are happy to gridlock any compromise, and punish any compromise. Yet, we dwell on the least effective wielder of that power while simply not recognizing, or admitting, that the problem still exists.
The media was not controlled by Trump, his only real power came from social media and the backlash that Fix and IAN spring from.
The real question is whether there is recognition that Trump didn’t create the problem nor did Biden getting elected fix it.
“Dictatorship requires ever tightening power structures within the centre of government. It requires media control, and the packing of institutions with like-minded, non-independent people. It involves the elevation of propaganda to a level that objective truth is deliberately debased. ”
This is at the heart of the Camlbell article, IMO. This is the challenge. It is true of all of our politics. The central government across decades has slowly yet inexorably tightened its grip. The Presidency has no accountability and more power with each successive President while the Congress slowly cedes that power because the sadist on both sides are happy to gridlock any compromise, and punish any compromise. Yet, we dwell on the least effective wielder of that power while simply not recognizing, or admitting, that the problem still exists.
The media was not controlled by Trump, his only real power came from social media and the backlash that Fix and IAN spring from.
The real question is whether there is recognition that Trump didn’t create the problem nor did Biden getting elected fix it.
It does leave me wondering what a not-entirely-gone Trump (or Johnson) supporter would think about the analysis of sado-populism Campbell provided.
Thanks hsh. Actually, on the Campbell piece, I don’t myself agree with the “Sado” aspect, because I think sadism requires recognition that the acted-upon has feelings so that you can enjoy hurting them. I would rather call the phenomenon some version of sociopathy or psychopathy, because to the perpetrators the acted-upon may as well be Lego pieces.
As for your question, I cannot currently envisage a “not-entirely-gone” Trump supporter, and it’s getting harder with Johnson supporters too. I used to be furious with Campbell about the his spin over the “dodgy dossier” and with Blair et al about the Iraq war, and the terrible truth is that compared to the current bunch they all look positively marvellous. You can’t imagine how depressed I am even writing that down….
It does leave me wondering what a not-entirely-gone Trump (or Johnson) supporter would think about the analysis of sado-populism Campbell provided.
Thanks hsh. Actually, on the Campbell piece, I don’t myself agree with the “Sado” aspect, because I think sadism requires recognition that the acted-upon has feelings so that you can enjoy hurting them. I would rather call the phenomenon some version of sociopathy or psychopathy, because to the perpetrators the acted-upon may as well be Lego pieces.
As for your question, I cannot currently envisage a “not-entirely-gone” Trump supporter, and it’s getting harder with Johnson supporters too. I used to be furious with Campbell about the his spin over the “dodgy dossier” and with Blair et al about the Iraq war, and the terrible truth is that compared to the current bunch they all look positively marvellous. You can’t imagine how depressed I am even writing that down….
Marty,
If you cannot acknowledge that “the problem” He, Trump created is a different and stinkier kettle of fish than anything that came before, then I give up: you’re not stubborn, you’re delusional.
And if you can’t tell the difference between an “extreme left” that accommodated Manchin and McConnell on “infrastructure”, and the totally-reasonable GOP that loudly condemns Republicans who voted for the bill, then your “both sides” crap is just laughable.
–TP
Marty,
If you cannot acknowledge that “the problem” He, Trump created is a different and stinkier kettle of fish than anything that came before, then I give up: you’re not stubborn, you’re delusional.
And if you can’t tell the difference between an “extreme left” that accommodated Manchin and McConnell on “infrastructure”, and the totally-reasonable GOP that loudly condemns Republicans who voted for the bill, then your “both sides” crap is just laughable.
–TP
The real question is whether there is recognition that Trump didn’t create the problem nor did Biden getting elected fix it.
IMO it’s correct to say the executive has become more powerful, and that that has been happening for quite a while now.
That seems like a somewhat different issue than central government growing in reach. “Central government” includes Congress, ISTM.
And all of that said, Trump brought his own special collection of problems that extend well beyond executive overreach.
Don’t know if “there is recognition” of that on your part or not.
The real question is whether there is recognition that Trump didn’t create the problem nor did Biden getting elected fix it.
IMO it’s correct to say the executive has become more powerful, and that that has been happening for quite a while now.
That seems like a somewhat different issue than central government growing in reach. “Central government” includes Congress, ISTM.
And all of that said, Trump brought his own special collection of problems that extend well beyond executive overreach.
Don’t know if “there is recognition” of that on your part or not.
Trump is a problem, he tried to use the levers in what turned out to be amateurish ways, but he was more blatant in his grasp for power.
That said, the empowerment of like minded people was no more evident than in the number of government employees who refused to implement his policies and the media who crippled his administration at every turn. We may like that they did that, but it is the kind of centralization of power Campbell talks about.
Trump is the caricature of the problem, he isn’t the actual problem.
The extreme left accommodated no one. They lost. In the end GOP votes pushed the bipartisan bill over the goal line over their objections. It is just bs to imagine they were accommodating in any way.
Trump is a problem, he tried to use the levers in what turned out to be amateurish ways, but he was more blatant in his grasp for power.
That said, the empowerment of like minded people was no more evident than in the number of government employees who refused to implement his policies and the media who crippled his administration at every turn. We may like that they did that, but it is the kind of centralization of power Campbell talks about.
Trump is the caricature of the problem, he isn’t the actual problem.
The extreme left accommodated no one. They lost. In the end GOP votes pushed the bipartisan bill over the goal line over their objections. It is just bs to imagine they were accommodating in any way.
I suspect Pelosi knew exactly how many left votes she could afford to lose. My understanding is that this is what Congressional leaders do. Voting against the infrastructure bill by a handful of lefties was probably theater.
And anyway, the Republicans in theory were mostly supposed to want infrastructure. But they care far more about Biden bring a failure and they are furious with the traitors who voted for it.
I suspect Pelosi knew exactly how many left votes she could afford to lose. My understanding is that this is what Congressional leaders do. Voting against the infrastructure bill by a handful of lefties was probably theater.
And anyway, the Republicans in theory were mostly supposed to want infrastructure. But they care far more about Biden bring a failure and they are furious with the traitors who voted for it.
I suspect the fury is also theater. Locally no one has to pay a price, the leadership wanted it passed.
I suspect the fury is also theater. Locally no one has to pay a price, the leadership wanted it passed.
Marty: The extreme left accommodated no one. They lost. In the end GOP votes pushed the bipartisan bill over the goal line over their objections. It is just bs to imagine they were accommodating in any way.
Those “GOP votes” are being viciously denounced by … the MAGAt GOP. If Marty looks at that and sees “both sides”, he’s fooling himself, not me.
There would have been fewer “far left” NO votes, had there been fewer Republicans YES votes. Like Donald says, Pelosi can count.
The bulk of Democrats voted for the bill. I have not heard them demand that AOC and company be stripped of committee assignments. The bulk of Republicans voted against the bill. And, led by their Orange Jesus, demanded excommunication of their “bipartisan” brethren.
“Both sides”? It is to laugh.
–TP
Marty: The extreme left accommodated no one. They lost. In the end GOP votes pushed the bipartisan bill over the goal line over their objections. It is just bs to imagine they were accommodating in any way.
Those “GOP votes” are being viciously denounced by … the MAGAt GOP. If Marty looks at that and sees “both sides”, he’s fooling himself, not me.
There would have been fewer “far left” NO votes, had there been fewer Republicans YES votes. Like Donald says, Pelosi can count.
The bulk of Democrats voted for the bill. I have not heard them demand that AOC and company be stripped of committee assignments. The bulk of Republicans voted against the bill. And, led by their Orange Jesus, demanded excommunication of their “bipartisan” brethren.
“Both sides”? It is to laugh.
–TP
Who is the intended audience for the “theater”, Marty?
I know, I know, not somebody as clever and well-informed as yourself. But try using your cleverness and knowledge to answer the question.
–TP
Who is the intended audience for the “theater”, Marty?
I know, I know, not somebody as clever and well-informed as yourself. But try using your cleverness and knowledge to answer the question.
–TP
I have commented on Applebaum before. First, an antidote—
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/americas/democracy-decline-worldwide.html?searchResultPosition=1
She writes an entire piece about autocracy and corruption and brutality and hypocrisy and it’s like she is stuck in some pre Abu Ghraib time warp, where all the evil in the world is to be found in our foreign enemies and perhaps in Americans like Trump who admire them. Mainstream propagandists used to write like this all the time, but even the NYT these days will sometimes allow its readers to see the real world isn’t quite like it was depicted in some George Bush speech circa 2002. Barely a word about Saudi Arabia or the war in Yemen. Nothing about Israel, which just accused six Palestinian human rights organizations of being fronts for terrorism. And she thinks sanctions are a good thing, though perhaps not as effective as they could be. But they are very effective in impoverishing ordinary people and making their lives even worse. Take a bow, America. Nothing shows our commitment to human rights more than our willingness to make people’s lives miserable.
The piece was no doubt written before the weekend NYT piece about the Syrian air strike which showed that there was a massive coverup and bureaucratic lying machine in the military with regards to our air strikes. Anyone paying attention would already know something like that had to be going on. And anyway, we saw the same reflexive lying back in August after the Kabul drone strike— they only told the truth because the NYT did a superb job exposing what really happened,and showing that virtually none of what the Pentagon said was true.
It would never cross Applebaum’s mind that she has something in common with the liars and propagandists she criticizes, but she does.
I have commented on Applebaum before. First, an antidote—
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/americas/democracy-decline-worldwide.html?searchResultPosition=1
She writes an entire piece about autocracy and corruption and brutality and hypocrisy and it’s like she is stuck in some pre Abu Ghraib time warp, where all the evil in the world is to be found in our foreign enemies and perhaps in Americans like Trump who admire them. Mainstream propagandists used to write like this all the time, but even the NYT these days will sometimes allow its readers to see the real world isn’t quite like it was depicted in some George Bush speech circa 2002. Barely a word about Saudi Arabia or the war in Yemen. Nothing about Israel, which just accused six Palestinian human rights organizations of being fronts for terrorism. And she thinks sanctions are a good thing, though perhaps not as effective as they could be. But they are very effective in impoverishing ordinary people and making their lives even worse. Take a bow, America. Nothing shows our commitment to human rights more than our willingness to make people’s lives miserable.
The piece was no doubt written before the weekend NYT piece about the Syrian air strike which showed that there was a massive coverup and bureaucratic lying machine in the military with regards to our air strikes. Anyone paying attention would already know something like that had to be going on. And anyway, we saw the same reflexive lying back in August after the Kabul drone strike— they only told the truth because the NYT did a superb job exposing what really happened,and showing that virtually none of what the Pentagon said was true.
It would never cross Applebaum’s mind that she has something in common with the liars and propagandists she criticizes, but she does.
government employees who refused to implement his policies
Make that government employees who refused to implement his policies when they were simply illegal. Because, note, your complaint includes folks like VP Pence. Who also refused to implement one of Trump’s policies. A bit of a challenge to characterize him as part of the same like-minded cadre as Pelosi, let alone AOC.
government employees who refused to implement his policies
Make that government employees who refused to implement his policies when they were simply illegal. Because, note, your complaint includes folks like VP Pence. Who also refused to implement one of Trump’s policies. A bit of a challenge to characterize him as part of the same like-minded cadre as Pelosi, let alone AOC.
That NYT piece on democratic decline was interesting, Donald, and I was particularly interested to learn about the V-Dem source material – I had never heard about them before.
But (as has been clear before) we differ about Applebaum. I don’t deny she has a somewhat biased view of America’s essentially democratic nature, which after all has been at least its aspiration for much of the past century, but I think her knowledge and overview of much of the rest of the world, and her ability to analyse and see emerging themes, is valuable. So I would never claim or believe she was anything close to infallible, but I think her views on authoritarianism etc are nonetheless worthwhile. And this is particularly true because they are capable of affecting the opinions of a swathe of people who would not be receptive to, for example, The Intercept.
That NYT piece on democratic decline was interesting, Donald, and I was particularly interested to learn about the V-Dem source material – I had never heard about them before.
But (as has been clear before) we differ about Applebaum. I don’t deny she has a somewhat biased view of America’s essentially democratic nature, which after all has been at least its aspiration for much of the past century, but I think her knowledge and overview of much of the rest of the world, and her ability to analyse and see emerging themes, is valuable. So I would never claim or believe she was anything close to infallible, but I think her views on authoritarianism etc are nonetheless worthwhile. And this is particularly true because they are capable of affecting the opinions of a swathe of people who would not be receptive to, for example, The Intercept.
Donald, I wonder if you would indulge my curiosity. I get that you think that US government policy is absolutely horrible and always has been, regardless of which party is in charge. Especially on human rights.
But I wonder if you could share an example of a country which you think does well. Or, more likely, less horribly, when it comes to human rights in other countries. (Obviously, someone who does nothing at all abroad would win. Well, unless they are, like China, committing genocide internally. But excluding those….)
Thanks
Donald, I wonder if you would indulge my curiosity. I get that you think that US government policy is absolutely horrible and always has been, regardless of which party is in charge. Especially on human rights.
But I wonder if you could share an example of a country which you think does well. Or, more likely, less horribly, when it comes to human rights in other countries. (Obviously, someone who does nothing at all abroad would win. Well, unless they are, like China, committing genocide internally. But excluding those….)
Thanks
Trump is a problem, he tried to use the levers in what turned out to be amateurish ways
At the risk of going all Godwin, the Nazis were clumsy knuckleheads, too. Right up until they weren’t. What they lacked in skill, they made up for with bullets.
Trump was, and is, a problem in kind, not degree.
The people who continue to support him are people I straight up do not trust. I really have no idea what they are or are not capable of.
Trump is a problem, he tried to use the levers in what turned out to be amateurish ways
At the risk of going all Godwin, the Nazis were clumsy knuckleheads, too. Right up until they weren’t. What they lacked in skill, they made up for with bullets.
Trump was, and is, a problem in kind, not degree.
The people who continue to support him are people I straight up do not trust. I really have no idea what they are or are not capable of.
I think Applebaum could help her ethos with many to her left if she could focus more closely on details and be more consistent. She is very good at picking out themes – like the new authoritarianism. I’d be inclined to agree with her on a lot of it. But then she decides in her examples to throw in Cuba and other old school regimes and jump to trying to leverage a much more nebulous point based on a first principle and I decide it’s not worth sharing after all because we’ve lost the focus and have wandered off to take on an attitude.
The RW has built a propaganda machine to rival Orwell’s imagination and they are all working together across old political divides to foment civil war within their own borders. That demands a specific tactical response. Cuba, although authoritarian, is outside the scope of that.
It’s frustrating. Applebaum is capable of critical nuance, but she’s too attached to her own positions and gets lazy with her analyses and conclusions to fit the curve of her own belief.
I think Applebaum could help her ethos with many to her left if she could focus more closely on details and be more consistent. She is very good at picking out themes – like the new authoritarianism. I’d be inclined to agree with her on a lot of it. But then she decides in her examples to throw in Cuba and other old school regimes and jump to trying to leverage a much more nebulous point based on a first principle and I decide it’s not worth sharing after all because we’ve lost the focus and have wandered off to take on an attitude.
The RW has built a propaganda machine to rival Orwell’s imagination and they are all working together across old political divides to foment civil war within their own borders. That demands a specific tactical response. Cuba, although authoritarian, is outside the scope of that.
It’s frustrating. Applebaum is capable of critical nuance, but she’s too attached to her own positions and gets lazy with her analyses and conclusions to fit the curve of her own belief.
Perhaps having it from a more trusted source will get my point across:
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/16/if-democrats-tree-falls-in-the-forest/
Perhaps having it from a more trusted source will get my point across:
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/16/if-democrats-tree-falls-in-the-forest/
I’m curious about the notion of ‘theatre’ here. On the one hand, it seems that theatre means that the Democrats who voted against the measure are somehow not honest about their votes, only play-acting opposition. On the other hand, Republicans are never seen to engage in theatre, and whatever they do is taken as a true representation of their beliefs, even though you have tons of examples (Cruz to Cancun, the Texas abortion bill, anything to do with masks) of theatre of the absurd.
It seems to me that the Dems who voted no are laying down a marker, saying that if you want their votes, you are (or Pelosi or whoever you think is the big cheese) going to have to try harder. In that sense, it is not theatre, it is trying to provide clarity to the debates. Would their calculation have changed had there been no Republican votes? I’m sure it would, but calling it theatre seems to grow out of a desire to dismiss whatever they represent.
wj’s link is also interesting, but I’m wondering what kind of catchphrase could be proposed to make Critical Race Theory more palatable, especially when it is seized despite it not being something that is actually taught in high schools
https://www.newsweek.com/north-dakota-senate-bans-teaching-critical-race-theory-schools-says-action-preemptive-1648884
And if the Dems did hire marketing to ‘get their message out’, you’d be seeing the countertops of the people working on that examined and dark speculations on why a particular firm was hired.
So, while I am sympathetic to the point of Tom Sullivan’s piece on Digby, when you have people who have already made up their minds about what the Democrats are and do, I’m not sure that throwing more money into ‘marketing’ is worth the candle.
I’m curious about the notion of ‘theatre’ here. On the one hand, it seems that theatre means that the Democrats who voted against the measure are somehow not honest about their votes, only play-acting opposition. On the other hand, Republicans are never seen to engage in theatre, and whatever they do is taken as a true representation of their beliefs, even though you have tons of examples (Cruz to Cancun, the Texas abortion bill, anything to do with masks) of theatre of the absurd.
It seems to me that the Dems who voted no are laying down a marker, saying that if you want their votes, you are (or Pelosi or whoever you think is the big cheese) going to have to try harder. In that sense, it is not theatre, it is trying to provide clarity to the debates. Would their calculation have changed had there been no Republican votes? I’m sure it would, but calling it theatre seems to grow out of a desire to dismiss whatever they represent.
wj’s link is also interesting, but I’m wondering what kind of catchphrase could be proposed to make Critical Race Theory more palatable, especially when it is seized despite it not being something that is actually taught in high schools
https://www.newsweek.com/north-dakota-senate-bans-teaching-critical-race-theory-schools-says-action-preemptive-1648884
And if the Dems did hire marketing to ‘get their message out’, you’d be seeing the countertops of the people working on that examined and dark speculations on why a particular firm was hired.
So, while I am sympathetic to the point of Tom Sullivan’s piece on Digby, when you have people who have already made up their minds about what the Democrats are and do, I’m not sure that throwing more money into ‘marketing’ is worth the candle.
The entirety of the CRT thing is theater. CRT is not a big thing. The RW Leninists all agreed to start going off about CRT and to stuff as many unpopular things into the sack as they could so that the GOP could claim that it has always been at war with CRT.
This is propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less. It should be treated as propaganda.
Which is not to say that it should be ignored. Propaganda is effective, especially when used in a Leninist way.
What the left needs to recognize, though, is that they can’t argue against propaganda. Rather, they need to set their own messaging, aligned with tangible things that the public understands without needing a glossary, and keep repeating it until it sinks in like an earworm in a relentless pop song.
Nothing cute. Just good old fashioned myth building like The Four Freedoms.
Too many people focus testing and trying to fine tune policy explanations. This is not that sort of fight.
Lead with the jab relentlessly. Look for openings. Land body blows.
The entirety of the CRT thing is theater. CRT is not a big thing. The RW Leninists all agreed to start going off about CRT and to stuff as many unpopular things into the sack as they could so that the GOP could claim that it has always been at war with CRT.
This is propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less. It should be treated as propaganda.
Which is not to say that it should be ignored. Propaganda is effective, especially when used in a Leninist way.
What the left needs to recognize, though, is that they can’t argue against propaganda. Rather, they need to set their own messaging, aligned with tangible things that the public understands without needing a glossary, and keep repeating it until it sinks in like an earworm in a relentless pop song.
Nothing cute. Just good old fashioned myth building like The Four Freedoms.
Too many people focus testing and trying to fine tune policy explanations. This is not that sort of fight.
Lead with the jab relentlessly. Look for openings. Land body blows.
“ I’m sure it would, but calling it theatre seems to grow out of a desire to dismiss whatever they represent.”
You are an extremely bad mind reader and I could do some mind reading to determine why you do this, but it would kind of spoil my point about the silliness of mindreading rather than just disagreeing with someone.
I love the Squad— they are the younger version of Bernie and women of color— the best thing to hit Congress in my lifetime. But I doubt they thought their vote would accomplish anything. If they did, then I am wrong, but I think it was just symbolism.
Earlier the progressives did say they would force both bills to stand or fall together and I wish they had stuck to that, but when Rep Jayapal ( sp?) said she trusted Biden to deliver, they essentially surrendered. I seriously doubt Pelosi would have called for a vote if she thought it would fail.
As for why most progressives surrendered, after the election losses the narrative seemed to flip towards centrists being the smart pragmatic ones— much of the press is comfortable with that way of portraying things. The progressives were being portrayed as the fanatics who caused a Democratic debacle and who were standing in the way of an infrastructure bill. So they caved. Now it is Biden who will look bad if he can’t deliver.
And I doubt he can. Manchin and Sinema got what they wanted. They don’t give a damn about anyone else. They and other “ moderates” will claim the BBB isn’t paid for, will say it is inflationary, and vote against it or demand further cuts.
My prediction. I hate all of it and want to be wrong. Maybe I am. Maybe Biden will somehow persuade the creeps to vote for BBB.
On Applebaum, there has never been any shortage of American pundits who could see the evils ( which are real) of our enemies. But she is a hypocritical hack. And she favors sanctions which makes her a fairly typical Western monster.
WJ— I don’t see the point of your question. US policy sucks and it doesn’t have to be as evil as it is. If it makes you feel better, it could be worse.
“ I’m sure it would, but calling it theatre seems to grow out of a desire to dismiss whatever they represent.”
You are an extremely bad mind reader and I could do some mind reading to determine why you do this, but it would kind of spoil my point about the silliness of mindreading rather than just disagreeing with someone.
I love the Squad— they are the younger version of Bernie and women of color— the best thing to hit Congress in my lifetime. But I doubt they thought their vote would accomplish anything. If they did, then I am wrong, but I think it was just symbolism.
Earlier the progressives did say they would force both bills to stand or fall together and I wish they had stuck to that, but when Rep Jayapal ( sp?) said she trusted Biden to deliver, they essentially surrendered. I seriously doubt Pelosi would have called for a vote if she thought it would fail.
As for why most progressives surrendered, after the election losses the narrative seemed to flip towards centrists being the smart pragmatic ones— much of the press is comfortable with that way of portraying things. The progressives were being portrayed as the fanatics who caused a Democratic debacle and who were standing in the way of an infrastructure bill. So they caved. Now it is Biden who will look bad if he can’t deliver.
And I doubt he can. Manchin and Sinema got what they wanted. They don’t give a damn about anyone else. They and other “ moderates” will claim the BBB isn’t paid for, will say it is inflationary, and vote against it or demand further cuts.
My prediction. I hate all of it and want to be wrong. Maybe I am. Maybe Biden will somehow persuade the creeps to vote for BBB.
On Applebaum, there has never been any shortage of American pundits who could see the evils ( which are real) of our enemies. But she is a hypocritical hack. And she favors sanctions which makes her a fairly typical Western monster.
WJ— I don’t see the point of your question. US policy sucks and it doesn’t have to be as evil as it is. If it makes you feel better, it could be worse.
I’m sorry you feel that way Donald, but you write in a way that has me interpret it like that. You tell me that the progressives ‘surrendered’, which suggests, as does your use of ‘theatre’, that the progressives are the source of the problem. Is that not what you are saying?
I feel like the progressives pushed Biden and Pelosi pretty far. As far as I wanted? No, but a lot further than in the past. Do you disagree?
To disagree with you is to disagree with the frame you are using. I don’t think that theatre is the right description of what happened. I’m not sure what is, but I think that the theater metaphor is based on an idea that there are true motivations and then play acting and if you play-act, you are obviously untrustworthy.
I’d also note that both you and Marty like the ‘theatre’ image. You may want to ponder on that.
I’m sorry you feel that way Donald, but you write in a way that has me interpret it like that. You tell me that the progressives ‘surrendered’, which suggests, as does your use of ‘theatre’, that the progressives are the source of the problem. Is that not what you are saying?
I feel like the progressives pushed Biden and Pelosi pretty far. As far as I wanted? No, but a lot further than in the past. Do you disagree?
To disagree with you is to disagree with the frame you are using. I don’t think that theatre is the right description of what happened. I’m not sure what is, but I think that the theater metaphor is based on an idea that there are true motivations and then play acting and if you play-act, you are obviously untrustworthy.
I’d also note that both you and Marty like the ‘theatre’ image. You may want to ponder on that.
i’m fairly astounded at how personally so many people have taken what is, in reality, bog-standard wheeling and dealing.
this new 24/7 spotlight on the legislative process doesn’t seem to be doing anyone any good. it just gives everyone more opportunities reasons to be mad at the things they like to be mad about.
i’m fairly astounded at how personally so many people have taken what is, in reality, bog-standard wheeling and dealing.
this new 24/7 spotlight on the legislative process doesn’t seem to be doing anyone any good. it just gives everyone more opportunities reasons to be mad at the things they like to be mad about.
What should Democrats doooooooooooooooo?
I have no clue. Here’s a take that might have merit:
https://www.salon.com/2021/11/12/guru-rachel-bitecofer-democrats-face-10-alarm-fire-after-virginia-debacle/
And democratic-socialists?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/opinion/democratic-socialists-india-walton.html
(Freddie can be a bit of a blockhead, but hey, blind squirrels and nuts….)
What should Democrats doooooooooooooooo?
I have no clue. Here’s a take that might have merit:
https://www.salon.com/2021/11/12/guru-rachel-bitecofer-democrats-face-10-alarm-fire-after-virginia-debacle/
And democratic-socialists?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/opinion/democratic-socialists-india-walton.html
(Freddie can be a bit of a blockhead, but hey, blind squirrels and nuts….)
what nous said. The GOP is a consciously Leninist counter-revolutionary party, and Democrats ignore or discount this at their peril.
what nous said. The GOP is a consciously Leninist counter-revolutionary party, and Democrats ignore or discount this at their peril.
The subhuman conservative movement, sub-personified by the Buchanan fake Christian but fully orthodox killers at The American Conservative, have a hard-on for the conservative pre-Gorbachov Soviet Union, but probably more for despotic orthodox Czarist Russia (Dreher is a bit of a Rasputin figure, come to think of it) before that.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-wheel-of-empires/
“We are ruled by a gerontocracy (Biden was older when he was inaugurated than Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko were when they died), our media is shamelessly propagandistic, store shelves are intermittently empty, and there are show trials on TV.”
Think about that. Apparently, the shelves were fully stocked with dogshit where Helen does HER shopping, and she cleaned them out, but in America, the rightwing dogshit supply-side chain is never interrupted.
Don’t tell me there will not be savage revolutionary violence from the right-wing in this despot-loving, fucking country.
“Trump is a problem.”
I long for the non-mealy-mouthed Marty who would, without a sidelong wink, tear Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama new ones on a weekly basis around here.
Talk about hate.
The heartbreak of psoriasis is a problem.
Conservative Trumpism is a country-killing catastrophe.
As to the federal public servants who resisted Trump’s first thing in the morning fascist edicts, somehow from their basement cubby-holes they were banished to, they deserve, en masse, a Nobel Peace Prize.
Marty, link arms with Johnny McEntee and take a flying leap together into the reflecting pond carrying bowling equipment.
Next time a Republican takes the Presidency, federal employees need to get fully armed.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/trump-johnny-mcentee-january-6-betrayal/620646/
“But she (Applebaum) is a hypocritical hack.”
I agree with Donald on many items, but as with McKinney Texas’ drop-ins letting us know all of us are hypocrites, there are bigger fish to fry, starting just up the road at the Texas State Church in Austin.
And now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to leap from a very high perch and land simultaneously with both legs into by pants, which stand straight-legged in a corner, WITH my shoes on.
Rectifying various hypocrisies is a mop-up operation after the no-holds barred event on the horizon.
The subhuman conservative movement, sub-personified by the Buchanan fake Christian but fully orthodox killers at The American Conservative, have a hard-on for the conservative pre-Gorbachov Soviet Union, but probably more for despotic orthodox Czarist Russia (Dreher is a bit of a Rasputin figure, come to think of it) before that.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-wheel-of-empires/
“We are ruled by a gerontocracy (Biden was older when he was inaugurated than Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko were when they died), our media is shamelessly propagandistic, store shelves are intermittently empty, and there are show trials on TV.”
Think about that. Apparently, the shelves were fully stocked with dogshit where Helen does HER shopping, and she cleaned them out, but in America, the rightwing dogshit supply-side chain is never interrupted.
Don’t tell me there will not be savage revolutionary violence from the right-wing in this despot-loving, fucking country.
“Trump is a problem.”
I long for the non-mealy-mouthed Marty who would, without a sidelong wink, tear Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama new ones on a weekly basis around here.
Talk about hate.
The heartbreak of psoriasis is a problem.
Conservative Trumpism is a country-killing catastrophe.
As to the federal public servants who resisted Trump’s first thing in the morning fascist edicts, somehow from their basement cubby-holes they were banished to, they deserve, en masse, a Nobel Peace Prize.
Marty, link arms with Johnny McEntee and take a flying leap together into the reflecting pond carrying bowling equipment.
Next time a Republican takes the Presidency, federal employees need to get fully armed.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/trump-johnny-mcentee-january-6-betrayal/620646/
“But she (Applebaum) is a hypocritical hack.”
I agree with Donald on many items, but as with McKinney Texas’ drop-ins letting us know all of us are hypocrites, there are bigger fish to fry, starting just up the road at the Texas State Church in Austin.
And now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to leap from a very high perch and land simultaneously with both legs into by pants, which stand straight-legged in a corner, WITH my shoes on.
Rectifying various hypocrisies is a mop-up operation after the no-holds barred event on the horizon.
I’m a hypocritical Lennonist.
Hitler didn’t have a hyprocritical bone in his body.
Neither did Lenin, though I suspect Stalin thought so, conservative that the latter was.
And noting that Trump and his murderous shock-troops are hypocrites is lancing a zit on a massive malignant tumor consuming the horse that’s already left the burning barn.
Metaphors. Mix ’em.
I’m a hypocritical Lennonist.
Hitler didn’t have a hyprocritical bone in his body.
Neither did Lenin, though I suspect Stalin thought so, conservative that the latter was.
And noting that Trump and his murderous shock-troops are hypocrites is lancing a zit on a massive malignant tumor consuming the horse that’s already left the burning barn.
Metaphors. Mix ’em.
On the other hand, Republicans are never seen to engage in theatre, and whatever they do is taken as a true representation of their beliefs
I don’t think it’s really seen that way. Although the usual label may be “posturing” rather than “theater.”
Either way, I don’t see anyone imputing sincerity to them — outside, perhaps, the right wing echo chamber. And even there, lots of them have their sincerity questioned.
On the other hand, Republicans are never seen to engage in theatre, and whatever they do is taken as a true representation of their beliefs
I don’t think it’s really seen that way. Although the usual label may be “posturing” rather than “theater.”
Either way, I don’t see anyone imputing sincerity to them — outside, perhaps, the right wing echo chamber. And even there, lots of them have their sincerity questioned.
lol
watch as Brad Raffensperger, the GA SoS who got all up in Trump’s face over Trump’s trying to sway the 2020 vote counting absolutely refuses to say if he would vote for Trump (should he become the nominee) in 2024.
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1460796533029408773
that’s what a year of harassment and death threats from the loving and tolerant GOP will get ya.
lol
watch as Brad Raffensperger, the GA SoS who got all up in Trump’s face over Trump’s trying to sway the 2020 vote counting absolutely refuses to say if he would vote for Trump (should he become the nominee) in 2024.
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1460796533029408773
that’s what a year of harassment and death threats from the loving and tolerant GOP will get ya.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/17/you-see-i-kill-my-own-men-revisited/
There will not be Civil War by “other” means.
The usual means are on tap.
When I hear the term “theater” used in relation to the conservative movement, I think of Lincoln’s night out with the wife with his backed turned to the founding father of the armed American conservative movement.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/17/you-see-i-kill-my-own-men-revisited/
There will not be Civil War by “other” means.
The usual means are on tap.
When I hear the term “theater” used in relation to the conservative movement, I think of Lincoln’s night out with the wife with his backed turned to the founding father of the armed American conservative movement.
WJ— I don’t see the point of your question. US policy sucks and it doesn’t have to be as evil as it is. If it makes you feel better, it could be worse.
Donald, it’s fine to aspire to something better. I do so myself. Certainly there are lots of areas where we could and should do better.
But to come off as bitter as you do? That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better. If only as a demonstration that it is possible to do so in the real world we are stuck with. And to maybe see how they got there.
WJ— I don’t see the point of your question. US policy sucks and it doesn’t have to be as evil as it is. If it makes you feel better, it could be worse.
Donald, it’s fine to aspire to something better. I do so myself. Certainly there are lots of areas where we could and should do better.
But to come off as bitter as you do? That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better. If only as a demonstration that it is possible to do so in the real world we are stuck with. And to maybe see how they got there.
There will not be Civil War by “other” means.
The usual means are on tap.
Sadly, I increasingly think you might be right on this. Here’s hoping that the Union Army triumphs more quickly this time.
There will not be Civil War by “other” means.
The usual means are on tap.
Sadly, I increasingly think you might be right on this. Here’s hoping that the Union Army triumphs more quickly this time.
That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better.
Not really. You can be bitter, on the whole, about all of human history. There are no examples of human activity outside of it, by definition.
If only as a demonstration that it is possible to do so in the real world we are stuck with. And to maybe see how they got there.
I guess it depends on what you think we are actually stuck with. There’s a first time for everything, so some imagination might be required. Strive for theoretical perfection to achieve real-world excellence.
That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better.
Not really. You can be bitter, on the whole, about all of human history. There are no examples of human activity outside of it, by definition.
If only as a demonstration that it is possible to do so in the real world we are stuck with. And to maybe see how they got there.
I guess it depends on what you think we are actually stuck with. There’s a first time for everything, so some imagination might be required. Strive for theoretical perfection to achieve real-world excellence.
There’s a first time for everything, so some imagination might be required.
The first step, therefore, is to propose a route from today to there.
Pretty clearly, mere exhortation isn’t getting the job done. Otherwise we would have seen at least some progress. (Personally, I think we have made some progress. But, if I am understanding him correctly, Donald sees no progress at all.) So, what can we imagine is a useful step to take that would improve things?
There’s a first time for everything, so some imagination might be required.
The first step, therefore, is to propose a route from today to there.
Pretty clearly, mere exhortation isn’t getting the job done. Otherwise we would have seen at least some progress. (Personally, I think we have made some progress. But, if I am understanding him correctly, Donald sees no progress at all.) So, what can we imagine is a useful step to take that would improve things?
Sadly, I increasingly think you might be right on this. Here’s hoping that the Union Army triumphs more quickly this time.
I’ll go on record again here to say that I expect this conflict to look more like Northern Ireland than like an actual war with states fighting each other with armies. It’s gonna be Provos vs. RUC and allies, and the side with the RUC will depend on whether the state is red or blue.
Rural areas won’t be like the Civil War, they will be like the era of the KKK.
Competing insurgencies, not large scale engagements for control of territory.
In other news that would be blowing up the news cycle had it gone otherwise – the University of California narrowly averted a big strike by its contingent faculty by spending the last 48 hours doing all of the bargaining that it should have been doing for the last 20 months. So I’m going to be in my classroom today, and not on the picket line with thousands of other people (including tenured faculty picketing in solidarity) across every UC campus.
Massive win. Won because the UC would rather not be that national story for two solid days.
Sadly, I increasingly think you might be right on this. Here’s hoping that the Union Army triumphs more quickly this time.
I’ll go on record again here to say that I expect this conflict to look more like Northern Ireland than like an actual war with states fighting each other with armies. It’s gonna be Provos vs. RUC and allies, and the side with the RUC will depend on whether the state is red or blue.
Rural areas won’t be like the Civil War, they will be like the era of the KKK.
Competing insurgencies, not large scale engagements for control of territory.
In other news that would be blowing up the news cycle had it gone otherwise – the University of California narrowly averted a big strike by its contingent faculty by spending the last 48 hours doing all of the bargaining that it should have been doing for the last 20 months. So I’m going to be in my classroom today, and not on the picket line with thousands of other people (including tenured faculty picketing in solidarity) across every UC campus.
Massive win. Won because the UC would rather not be that national story for two solid days.
we’re not in the days when the average farmer and the average footsoldier would be similarly armed. any “war” would be flattened by the US military.
if you want to assume the US military is split, then any war would be … very short.
we’re not in the days when the average farmer and the average footsoldier would be similarly armed. any “war” would be flattened by the US military.
if you want to assume the US military is split, then any war would be … very short.
spending the last 48 hours doing all of the bargaining that it should have been doing for the last 20 months
Somehow (perhaps because they are the ones which make news) I have the impression that labor contract negotiations typically make the vast majority of their progress during the last couple of days, or even hours, before whatever strike deadline has been set.
spending the last 48 hours doing all of the bargaining that it should have been doing for the last 20 months
Somehow (perhaps because they are the ones which make news) I have the impression that labor contract negotiations typically make the vast majority of their progress during the last couple of days, or even hours, before whatever strike deadline has been set.
if you want to assume the US military is split, then any war would be … very short.
Unless some of the nukes get seized by the insurgent reactionaries. That might make make for a standoff for a while. I’d like to think that the military has vetted the people in those positions extra carefully, but….
if you want to assume the US military is split, then any war would be … very short.
Unless some of the nukes get seized by the insurgent reactionaries. That might make make for a standoff for a while. I’d like to think that the military has vetted the people in those positions extra carefully, but….
“Unless some of the nukes get seized by the insurgent reactionaries. That might make make for a standoff for a while. I’d like to think that the military has vetted the people in those positions extra carefully, but….”
SOMEHOW, the NNSA (the people whose primary job is to *actually* control the nukes) didn’t follow their procedure for when a Russian asset takes control of some US nukes.
I’m sure they have such a procedure. And that it makes nooneithinkisinmytree seem like a paragon of grandmotherly kindness.
“Unless some of the nukes get seized by the insurgent reactionaries. That might make make for a standoff for a while. I’d like to think that the military has vetted the people in those positions extra carefully, but….”
SOMEHOW, the NNSA (the people whose primary job is to *actually* control the nukes) didn’t follow their procedure for when a Russian asset takes control of some US nukes.
I’m sure they have such a procedure. And that it makes nooneithinkisinmytree seem like a paragon of grandmotherly kindness.
“Nothing about Israel, which just accused six Palestinian human rights organizations of being fronts for terrorism”
Is this a criticism of Israel? Do you have information from a reliable source that these organizations are not fronts for terrorism? Do you deny that the Palestinians have, and continue to, sponsor terrorist attacks on Israel? When they are not simply firing missiles?
Or did you just throw it in there?
“Nothing about Israel, which just accused six Palestinian human rights organizations of being fronts for terrorism”
Is this a criticism of Israel? Do you have information from a reliable source that these organizations are not fronts for terrorism? Do you deny that the Palestinians have, and continue to, sponsor terrorist attacks on Israel? When they are not simply firing missiles?
Or did you just throw it in there?
Marty,
I’m still hoping you will answer my question at 6:17PM yesterday. You dismissed as “theater” the MAGAts’ calls for punishment of those Republicans who voted for the infrastructure bill. My question was:
Who is the intended audience for the “theater”, Marty?
Why bother with performance art if you don’t expect some audience to clap?
–TP
Marty,
I’m still hoping you will answer my question at 6:17PM yesterday. You dismissed as “theater” the MAGAts’ calls for punishment of those Republicans who voted for the infrastructure bill. My question was:
Who is the intended audience for the “theater”, Marty?
Why bother with performance art if you don’t expect some audience to clap?
–TP
Look Tony, I don’t know who you define as MAGAts. Nor do I talk about people using 12 year old childish names.
The answer is it depends on who is on stage. Local politicians are looking to pick up Trump voters, national campaigns, Trumps in particular, are using it to stir up the national base. 18 or so GOP Senators including McConnell voted for it. No one really thinks it’s a bad idea.
But in general it’s theater for the media. To keep them promoting Trump
Look Tony, I don’t know who you define as MAGAts. Nor do I talk about people using 12 year old childish names.
The answer is it depends on who is on stage. Local politicians are looking to pick up Trump voters, national campaigns, Trumps in particular, are using it to stir up the national base. 18 or so GOP Senators including McConnell voted for it. No one really thinks it’s a bad idea.
But in general it’s theater for the media. To keep them promoting Trump
wrote a couple of comments which seem to have disappeared into the ether. which is often for the best.
I’ll try again.
I’m wondering what kind of catchphrase could be proposed to make Critical Race Theory more palatable
I would suggest “American History”.
What should Democrats doooooooooooooooo?
Run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle. Stop focusing purely on swing states during POTUS election years and run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle.
It’ll take 20 years, but things will change.
Regarding “theater” – it’s a term that implies a kind of self-indulgent performative gesture, with little or not consequential result in the real world.
And sometimes that’s accurate.
But sometimes doing something just to make a point *actually makes a point*, and can be worthwhile.
Which case is which, I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Have a nice day!! I’m still conked out from a Covid booster and I’m gonna go take a nap now.
wrote a couple of comments which seem to have disappeared into the ether. which is often for the best.
I’ll try again.
I’m wondering what kind of catchphrase could be proposed to make Critical Race Theory more palatable
I would suggest “American History”.
What should Democrats doooooooooooooooo?
Run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle. Stop focusing purely on swing states during POTUS election years and run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle.
It’ll take 20 years, but things will change.
Regarding “theater” – it’s a term that implies a kind of self-indulgent performative gesture, with little or not consequential result in the real world.
And sometimes that’s accurate.
But sometimes doing something just to make a point *actually makes a point*, and can be worthwhile.
Which case is which, I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Have a nice day!! I’m still conked out from a Covid booster and I’m gonna go take a nap now.
Run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle. Stop focusing purely on swing states during POTUS election years and run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle.
Amen.
For example, I saw something the other day (about, I think, Pennsylvania) about how a bunch of county election official contests had nobody running. Leaving the field open for MAGA conspiracy-theory types to step in. Abandoning the field like that is madness. Especially when you already know your opponents are committed to voiding results that they don’t like.
Run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle. Stop focusing purely on swing states during POTUS election years and run for everything, everywhere, in every cycle.
Amen.
For example, I saw something the other day (about, I think, Pennsylvania) about how a bunch of county election official contests had nobody running. Leaving the field open for MAGA conspiracy-theory types to step in. Abandoning the field like that is madness. Especially when you already know your opponents are committed to voiding results that they don’t like.
Do you have information from a reliable source that these organizations are not fronts for terrorism?
Do you have information from a reliable source that you’re not a malodorous pervert? I mean, you could be, so I guess it’s up to you to prove you’re not.
Do you have information from a reliable source that these organizations are not fronts for terrorism?
Do you have information from a reliable source that you’re not a malodorous pervert? I mean, you could be, so I guess it’s up to you to prove you’re not.
Marty,
My definition of “MAGAt”: anyone who, when asked “Did Joe Biden win in 2020 with just as big a landslide as Trump won in 2016?” answers anything but an immediate “Yes”.
Such persons have been known to wear MAGA hats, hence the name. Such persons may or may not be the majority of Republican voters or GOP politicians. If they resent the MAGAt label, they are entirely free to deconvert from the Cult of He, Trump. Or to complain that their feelings are getting fucked now, of course. Either way, the GOP performance artists are putting on a show for those people, as you seem to acknowledge.
I don’t know where you get the notion that “No one really thinks it’s a bad idea”, but if you mean that the MAGAt pols are just putting on a show for the MAGAt rubes, then you’re making my point for me: the pols are perfectly happy to stir up the rubes to the point of inciting death threats against their own colleagues, knowing full well it’s just “theater”.
–TP
Marty,
My definition of “MAGAt”: anyone who, when asked “Did Joe Biden win in 2020 with just as big a landslide as Trump won in 2016?” answers anything but an immediate “Yes”.
Such persons have been known to wear MAGA hats, hence the name. Such persons may or may not be the majority of Republican voters or GOP politicians. If they resent the MAGAt label, they are entirely free to deconvert from the Cult of He, Trump. Or to complain that their feelings are getting fucked now, of course. Either way, the GOP performance artists are putting on a show for those people, as you seem to acknowledge.
I don’t know where you get the notion that “No one really thinks it’s a bad idea”, but if you mean that the MAGAt pols are just putting on a show for the MAGAt rubes, then you’re making my point for me: the pols are perfectly happy to stir up the rubes to the point of inciting death threats against their own colleagues, knowing full well it’s just “theater”.
–TP
Somehow (perhaps because they are the ones which make news) I have the impression that labor contract negotiations typically make the vast majority of their progress during the last couple of days, or even hours, before whatever strike deadline has been set.
True in a sense. How it actually works is that management does its best to stretch out and delay negotiations in order to try to create enough distress that the union members rebel against their reps and demand a vote on a bad offer just to get something.
But if management is also used to ignoring the finer details of labor law because they had more leverage – subjects of mandatory bargaining that they were not bargaining on because we had contract negotiations pending. Then a union can call an Unfair Labor Practice strike independent of the bargaining status, and that changes the timeline that management thought it was working on and creates a new sort of public pressure.
So movement does mostly happen in the last moments before a major labor action. But what constitutes that final moment is really unclear except in hindsight, so you just keep building power and fighting until one or the other side hits a limit and things that once were impossible suddenly become possible. I don’t think either side usually knows what that moment is except in hindsight.
Somehow (perhaps because they are the ones which make news) I have the impression that labor contract negotiations typically make the vast majority of their progress during the last couple of days, or even hours, before whatever strike deadline has been set.
True in a sense. How it actually works is that management does its best to stretch out and delay negotiations in order to try to create enough distress that the union members rebel against their reps and demand a vote on a bad offer just to get something.
But if management is also used to ignoring the finer details of labor law because they had more leverage – subjects of mandatory bargaining that they were not bargaining on because we had contract negotiations pending. Then a union can call an Unfair Labor Practice strike independent of the bargaining status, and that changes the timeline that management thought it was working on and creates a new sort of public pressure.
So movement does mostly happen in the last moments before a major labor action. But what constitutes that final moment is really unclear except in hindsight, so you just keep building power and fighting until one or the other side hits a limit and things that once were impossible suddenly become possible. I don’t think either side usually knows what that moment is except in hindsight.
anyone who, when asked “Did Joe Biden win in 2020 with just as big a landslide as Trump won in 2016?” answers anything but an immediate “Yes”.
Asked that question, I’d answer with an immediate “No!” Because Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. So Biden’s win was far bigger.
Just sayin’.
anyone who, when asked “Did Joe Biden win in 2020 with just as big a landslide as Trump won in 2016?” answers anything but an immediate “Yes”.
Asked that question, I’d answer with an immediate “No!” Because Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. So Biden’s win was far bigger.
Just sayin’.
the whole fucking GOP is theater.
the nihilistic clowns at the top, and the too-dumb-to-know-better hype-men who sell the show, are performing Scenes From The Culture wars for the deluded Republican masses – people who have been so addled by generations of 24/7 Republican mythology that they can’t even see that third-rate carnival barkers like Hannity and Carlson are telling them florid tales of impending doom (which only THEY can stop!) in order to keep them from changing the channel and maybe learning something about reality.
it’s a scam. it’s so fucking obviously a scam. and they’re such excellent marks that they fell for DONALD TRUMP of all people. i mean, my god. how fucking gullible do you have to be to fall for that D-grade huckster? he’s only been telling us since the 70s that he’s an amoral huckster. but, again they’re excellent marks.
and so, every 9 months, the head writers in the Republican clown show manufacture a new crisis for the hordes to lose their shit over. and they get right to it, like only the best marks could.
and everyone else has to sit here and glumly wonder what the fuck kind of future can a country have when half of its citizens don’t even inhabit reality any more.
the whole fucking GOP is theater.
the nihilistic clowns at the top, and the too-dumb-to-know-better hype-men who sell the show, are performing Scenes From The Culture wars for the deluded Republican masses – people who have been so addled by generations of 24/7 Republican mythology that they can’t even see that third-rate carnival barkers like Hannity and Carlson are telling them florid tales of impending doom (which only THEY can stop!) in order to keep them from changing the channel and maybe learning something about reality.
it’s a scam. it’s so fucking obviously a scam. and they’re such excellent marks that they fell for DONALD TRUMP of all people. i mean, my god. how fucking gullible do you have to be to fall for that D-grade huckster? he’s only been telling us since the 70s that he’s an amoral huckster. but, again they’re excellent marks.
and so, every 9 months, the head writers in the Republican clown show manufacture a new crisis for the hordes to lose their shit over. and they get right to it, like only the best marks could.
and everyone else has to sit here and glumly wonder what the fuck kind of future can a country have when half of its citizens don’t even inhabit reality any more.
Wait, I’m not dead from ebola?
Wait, I’m not dead from ebola?
“ s this a criticism of Israel? ”
Yep. They are a racist oppressive authoritarian government and they pull the same crap that other authoritarian governments pull when it comes to their critics.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/22/israel/palestine-designation-palestinian-rights-groups-terrorists
“ s this a criticism of Israel? ”
Yep. They are a racist oppressive authoritarian government and they pull the same crap that other authoritarian governments pull when it comes to their critics.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/22/israel/palestine-designation-palestinian-rights-groups-terrorists
wj,
“Bigger” would be a clearer one-word answer. It would be better “messaging”. Depending what “message” you want to convey, of course.
–TP
wj,
“Bigger” would be a clearer one-word answer. It would be better “messaging”. Depending what “message” you want to convey, of course.
–TP
“ I’d also note that both you and Marty like the ‘theatre’ image. You may want to ponder on that.”
I think you should ponder on how often you use arguments like that. We all hang around here long enough to know each other’s verbal tics and characteristic ways of thinking. This is one of yours. I’d know you wrote it at a glance. I think it is generally not a good way to think.
It makes no difference to me at all that Marty and I might sometimes use the same term. Once in a while we might even agree on something, though not on Israel or the Squad in any serious way.. But I have read that politicians will sometimes vote against something knowing it will pass. There is a lot of theater in politics.
In this case the progressives as a whole caved because Biden made it clear he wanted the infrastructure bill passed and after the election, as usual the progressives were starting to be demonized because they hadn’t cave in to everything the centrists wanted. Rightly or wrongly, they took Biden’s face- saving way to surrender. It is now on him.
I am not happy about this, but I think progressives have once again lost and don’t know if in the short term there was a way to win.
“ I’d also note that both you and Marty like the ‘theatre’ image. You may want to ponder on that.”
I think you should ponder on how often you use arguments like that. We all hang around here long enough to know each other’s verbal tics and characteristic ways of thinking. This is one of yours. I’d know you wrote it at a glance. I think it is generally not a good way to think.
It makes no difference to me at all that Marty and I might sometimes use the same term. Once in a while we might even agree on something, though not on Israel or the Squad in any serious way.. But I have read that politicians will sometimes vote against something knowing it will pass. There is a lot of theater in politics.
In this case the progressives as a whole caved because Biden made it clear he wanted the infrastructure bill passed and after the election, as usual the progressives were starting to be demonized because they hadn’t cave in to everything the centrists wanted. Rightly or wrongly, they took Biden’s face- saving way to surrender. It is now on him.
I am not happy about this, but I think progressives have once again lost and don’t know if in the short term there was a way to win.
“ But to come off as bitter as you do? That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better”
Oh, rubbish. The Pentagon lies about its air strikes. They should stop doing this. And US foreign policy elites are not held accountable for their mistakes and see themselves as the good guys no matter what crap they pull. They need to be called out and not treated with the respect they think they deserve. I don’t have to look for other superpowers that have done it better. Most likely people with the power of life and death over others who aren’t held accountable will abuse it.
“ But to come off as bitter as you do? That would seem to me to require an example, at least in your own mind, of some country which does better”
Oh, rubbish. The Pentagon lies about its air strikes. They should stop doing this. And US foreign policy elites are not held accountable for their mistakes and see themselves as the good guys no matter what crap they pull. They need to be called out and not treated with the respect they think they deserve. I don’t have to look for other superpowers that have done it better. Most likely people with the power of life and death over others who aren’t held accountable will abuse it.
“ It is now on him.”
That was unfair to Biden. I am not in the habit of feeling sorry for centrist liberal Presidents, but here I pretty much agree with the party line here. The Republican Party is complete trash and they are not held to account. Manchin and Sinema are in effect Republican Party operatives. And I am not sure what Biden can do about it.
“ It is now on him.”
That was unfair to Biden. I am not in the habit of feeling sorry for centrist liberal Presidents, but here I pretty much agree with the party line here. The Republican Party is complete trash and they are not held to account. Manchin and Sinema are in effect Republican Party operatives. And I am not sure what Biden can do about it.
I think progressives have once again lost and don’t know if in the short term there was a way to win.
there wasn’t. there’s aren’t enough of them and they wanted what everyone wanted and more. nobody in that position gets to set the terms – unless they think none of what they want is better than some of what they want? in which case they’re in the wrong job.
I think progressives have once again lost and don’t know if in the short term there was a way to win.
there wasn’t. there’s aren’t enough of them and they wanted what everyone wanted and more. nobody in that position gets to set the terms – unless they think none of what they want is better than some of what they want? in which case they’re in the wrong job.
“And more” seems to mean anything a centrist Republican ( to the extent they exist) want.
What is weird is that ( from what I have read) if you poll policies one at a time what the progressives want is popular. Of course with the filibuster and the mysteriously all powerful Senate Parliamentarian it all has to be passed at once and then framed as terrifying large, though less than half ( and noow less than a quarter) the size of the Pentagon budget. If any of it passes at all.
It is the messaging I don’t know how to solve. The pundit class still exists in a world where serious people compromise with serious Republicans and progressives are by definition the wild eyed fanatics who want everything.
Climate change, of course, doesn’t matter at all. We have all the time in the world.
“And more” seems to mean anything a centrist Republican ( to the extent they exist) want.
What is weird is that ( from what I have read) if you poll policies one at a time what the progressives want is popular. Of course with the filibuster and the mysteriously all powerful Senate Parliamentarian it all has to be passed at once and then framed as terrifying large, though less than half ( and noow less than a quarter) the size of the Pentagon budget. If any of it passes at all.
It is the messaging I don’t know how to solve. The pundit class still exists in a world where serious people compromise with serious Republicans and progressives are by definition the wild eyed fanatics who want everything.
Climate change, of course, doesn’t matter at all. We have all the time in the world.
I think what mostly happened this past year was that, for the first time, the general public got a clear view of the usual way laws, especially budgets/spending bills, get written. Between the Internet and everybody having more time to watch (due to covid), it’s a different world than it was a decade ago on that score.
We might have noticed sooner, except for two things. When McConnell controlled the Senate, nothing much was going to happen for a Democratic administration. And Trump wasn’t interested in legislation, beyond tax cuts.
Clearly, seeing the process by which sausage is made was a shock to many people’s systems.
I think what mostly happened this past year was that, for the first time, the general public got a clear view of the usual way laws, especially budgets/spending bills, get written. Between the Internet and everybody having more time to watch (due to covid), it’s a different world than it was a decade ago on that score.
We might have noticed sooner, except for two things. When McConnell controlled the Senate, nothing much was going to happen for a Democratic administration. And Trump wasn’t interested in legislation, beyond tax cuts.
Clearly, seeing the process by which sausage is made was a shock to many people’s systems.
there wasn’t. there’s aren’t enough of them and they wanted what everyone wanted and more. nobody in that position gets to set the terms – unless they think none of what they want is better than some of what they want? in which case they’re in the wrong job.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why moderate Democrats have decided that theater and virtue signaling are de facto bad things.
The things that the progressives wanted were all things that *mainstream Democrats* also wanted. A yes vote sends no message beyond “this is all we can get and it is minimally acceptable.”
People who pay attention to process know what battles have been fought know that there was a fight for more. They also know that there were enough votes even without the progressives to pass the legislation. Getting mad about the “no” votes *in those circumstances* is its own form of theater and virtue signaling. It tells the public that the progressives are outliers and the Dems are more centrist.
The progressives are trying to tell people who care about the things that were dropped from the bill that they care about these things and are still fighting to get them in the future.
People who pay attention to the process think that point has been made already and that the final holdout is grandstanding for a “safe” district.
People who don’t pay attention to the process, or who only pay so much attention will not see the fight for those things. They will only see that everyone found a deal without those things acceptable. Many of them will see the Democrats as having given up and they will lose heart and stop engaging. The people making that “no” visible get one last chance to show those people who only got the final tally that they have support on the Democrat side.
I don’t see why theater and virtue signaling is a bad thing if it does nothing to stop a deal unless the people who are upset about it are upset because they did not want any of the important things that got stripped out to get a minimally acceptable deal.
If you ever want to get those things that got left out, then you have to make noise for change so that you can keep that possibility alive. That is the other side of that “run everyplace” strategy. Don’t give up on a policy just because it was not yet possible. Keep that dream alive and visible. Show your disappointment. Show the fight, even if you have to dramatize it. Otherwise you look like a lot of gutless triangulating opportunists and you get a lot of lukewarm, conditional support.
there wasn’t. there’s aren’t enough of them and they wanted what everyone wanted and more. nobody in that position gets to set the terms – unless they think none of what they want is better than some of what they want? in which case they’re in the wrong job.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why moderate Democrats have decided that theater and virtue signaling are de facto bad things.
The things that the progressives wanted were all things that *mainstream Democrats* also wanted. A yes vote sends no message beyond “this is all we can get and it is minimally acceptable.”
People who pay attention to process know what battles have been fought know that there was a fight for more. They also know that there were enough votes even without the progressives to pass the legislation. Getting mad about the “no” votes *in those circumstances* is its own form of theater and virtue signaling. It tells the public that the progressives are outliers and the Dems are more centrist.
The progressives are trying to tell people who care about the things that were dropped from the bill that they care about these things and are still fighting to get them in the future.
People who pay attention to the process think that point has been made already and that the final holdout is grandstanding for a “safe” district.
People who don’t pay attention to the process, or who only pay so much attention will not see the fight for those things. They will only see that everyone found a deal without those things acceptable. Many of them will see the Democrats as having given up and they will lose heart and stop engaging. The people making that “no” visible get one last chance to show those people who only got the final tally that they have support on the Democrat side.
I don’t see why theater and virtue signaling is a bad thing if it does nothing to stop a deal unless the people who are upset about it are upset because they did not want any of the important things that got stripped out to get a minimally acceptable deal.
If you ever want to get those things that got left out, then you have to make noise for change so that you can keep that possibility alive. That is the other side of that “run everyplace” strategy. Don’t give up on a policy just because it was not yet possible. Keep that dream alive and visible. Show your disappointment. Show the fight, even if you have to dramatize it. Otherwise you look like a lot of gutless triangulating opportunists and you get a lot of lukewarm, conditional support.
If you ever want to get those things that got left out, then you have to make noise for change so that you can keep that possibility alive. That is the other side of that “run everyplace” strategy. Don’t give up on a policy just because it was not yet possible. Keep that dream alive and visible. Show your disappointment. Show the fight, even if you have to dramatize it.
Note also that, by doing those things, you help legislators in swing disteicts make the case during the next campaign that they are the sort of moderates (for lack of a better term) that their voters want. Which is in your interest, because progressives can’t win there, but reactionaries could.
If you ever want to get those things that got left out, then you have to make noise for change so that you can keep that possibility alive. That is the other side of that “run everyplace” strategy. Don’t give up on a policy just because it was not yet possible. Keep that dream alive and visible. Show your disappointment. Show the fight, even if you have to dramatize it.
Note also that, by doing those things, you help legislators in swing disteicts make the case during the next campaign that they are the sort of moderates (for lack of a better term) that their voters want. Which is in your interest, because progressives can’t win there, but reactionaries could.
Note also that, by doing those things, you help legislators in swing disteicts make the case during the next campaign that they are the sort of moderates (for lack of a better term) that their voters want. Which is in your interest, because progressives can’t win there, but reactionaries could.
This should only be used tactically as a party, though, the same way that the progressive wing should not prevent a bill like infrastructure from passing with their “no” vote. Candidates in bluish purple districts (especially those trending towards blue) should try hard to make a case for the *get more next time* side and not for the *slow down change* side. The change you want must be normalized, not incrementalized.
Note also that, by doing those things, you help legislators in swing disteicts make the case during the next campaign that they are the sort of moderates (for lack of a better term) that their voters want. Which is in your interest, because progressives can’t win there, but reactionaries could.
This should only be used tactically as a party, though, the same way that the progressive wing should not prevent a bill like infrastructure from passing with their “no” vote. Candidates in bluish purple districts (especially those trending towards blue) should try hard to make a case for the *get more next time* side and not for the *slow down change* side. The change you want must be normalized, not incrementalized.
Indeed. I was thinking more of folks representing otherwise very red districts. Say because a major flake got nominated against them last time. Every little bit helps for those cases.
In 2022 and 2024 I expect more examples of the MAGA folks making careful use of that gun rest strapped to their knee. The one that makes sure they won’t miss their foot. Maybe not enough to hold the Congress. But possibly even enough to give the Democrats more cushion.
Indeed. I was thinking more of folks representing otherwise very red districts. Say because a major flake got nominated against them last time. Every little bit helps for those cases.
In 2022 and 2024 I expect more examples of the MAGA folks making careful use of that gun rest strapped to their knee. The one that makes sure they won’t miss their foot. Maybe not enough to hold the Congress. But possibly even enough to give the Democrats more cushion.
And more” seems to mean anything a centrist Republican ( to the extent they exist) want.
—
Oh come on. It has nothing to do with “centrists”.
It’s about what people can agree on. The stuff everyone can agree on is what’s most likely to happen. The stuff that only a few want is what’s not likely to happen. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not unfair. It’s not anything but how human interactions work.
And more” seems to mean anything a centrist Republican ( to the extent they exist) want.
—
Oh come on. It has nothing to do with “centrists”.
It’s about what people can agree on. The stuff everyone can agree on is what’s most likely to happen. The stuff that only a few want is what’s not likely to happen. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not unfair. It’s not anything but how human interactions work.
The stuff that only a few want is what’s not likely to happen.
Fair enough. What stuff would that be?
The stuff that only a few want is what’s not likely to happen.
Fair enough. What stuff would that be?
So only a few people want lower prescription drug prices. Sinema and Manchin were just spokesmen for the people. That’s the narrative switch.
From what I have read negotiating for lower drug prices was the most popular of all the proposals, but corporations don’t like it. What centrists working at the behest of their corporate donors want is what passes easily. Gigantic military budgets pass without a squawk about the deficit from all the deficit hawks in Congress or the press. We don’t have gigantic months long debates about it because our system reflects what most people want. I don’t think so. I don’t think most people pay close attention to what happens and what they prefer is mostly limited to showing up in poll questions. But people can be stirred up over culture war stuff and generalized concern about supposedly massive spending if it is for social programs and that happens a lot. So no, I don’t think our political system reflects what most people want. I think progressives are not as good at pointing out deficit hawk hypocrisy or other forms of manipulation.
But your claim has further implications. If we just had a competent set of Republicans in office or at least people willing to break with Trump, we’d be passing all the things most people really want. So either the Republicans become sane or the Democrats should go back to the 90’s strategy of chasing the center right voter because progressives are a whiny minority with no place to go.
So only a few people want lower prescription drug prices. Sinema and Manchin were just spokesmen for the people. That’s the narrative switch.
From what I have read negotiating for lower drug prices was the most popular of all the proposals, but corporations don’t like it. What centrists working at the behest of their corporate donors want is what passes easily. Gigantic military budgets pass without a squawk about the deficit from all the deficit hawks in Congress or the press. We don’t have gigantic months long debates about it because our system reflects what most people want. I don’t think so. I don’t think most people pay close attention to what happens and what they prefer is mostly limited to showing up in poll questions. But people can be stirred up over culture war stuff and generalized concern about supposedly massive spending if it is for social programs and that happens a lot. So no, I don’t think our political system reflects what most people want. I think progressives are not as good at pointing out deficit hawk hypocrisy or other forms of manipulation.
But your claim has further implications. If we just had a competent set of Republicans in office or at least people willing to break with Trump, we’d be passing all the things most people really want. So either the Republicans become sane or the Democrats should go back to the 90’s strategy of chasing the center right voter because progressives are a whiny minority with no place to go.
Fair enough. What stuff would that be?
it’s the set of stuff that enough people can agree on to get the required votes.
—
We don’t have gigantic months long debates about it because our system reflects what most people want.
we have those debates because that’s how the 560+ people who matter get around to deciding what to do about big things.
So no, I don’t think our political system reflects what most people want.
the only people in this scenario are Congresspeople, because we don’t have direct democracy. we get what they want, collectively.
So either the Republicans become sane or the Democrats should go back to the 90’s strategy of chasing the center right voter because progressives are a whiny minority with no place to go.
more progressives could get themselves elected. progressives could get good at persuading evil centrists* that their plans are good.
but right now they don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept. this is how every negotiation works. it’s not a conspiracy. it’s not an evil centrist plot to keep them down. it’s just democracy.
* who, we mustn’t forget never have motives other than greed and corruption, right?
Fair enough. What stuff would that be?
it’s the set of stuff that enough people can agree on to get the required votes.
—
We don’t have gigantic months long debates about it because our system reflects what most people want.
we have those debates because that’s how the 560+ people who matter get around to deciding what to do about big things.
So no, I don’t think our political system reflects what most people want.
the only people in this scenario are Congresspeople, because we don’t have direct democracy. we get what they want, collectively.
So either the Republicans become sane or the Democrats should go back to the 90’s strategy of chasing the center right voter because progressives are a whiny minority with no place to go.
more progressives could get themselves elected. progressives could get good at persuading evil centrists* that their plans are good.
but right now they don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept. this is how every negotiation works. it’s not a conspiracy. it’s not an evil centrist plot to keep them down. it’s just democracy.
* who, we mustn’t forget never have motives other than greed and corruption, right?
But the centrists (= the DNC) also for the most part control the money flow for election campaigns and attach strings to that (e.g. which consultants to hire and to obey).
So, progressives are at a strong disadvantage there and the Dem leadership is also not averse to (metaphorically) kneecapping them. AOC & Co. are not in their positions because the leadership wanted them elected but because they were unable to prevent it. Less openly brutal than on the GOP side but still rather what we would call ‘hinterfotzig’ in German.
But the centrists (= the DNC) also for the most part control the money flow for election campaigns and attach strings to that (e.g. which consultants to hire and to obey).
So, progressives are at a strong disadvantage there and the Dem leadership is also not averse to (metaphorically) kneecapping them. AOC & Co. are not in their positions because the leadership wanted them elected but because they were unable to prevent it. Less openly brutal than on the GOP side but still rather what we would call ‘hinterfotzig’ in German.
First, we live in a country where things like managing prescription drug prices via public action and guaranteed parental leave are thought of as radical left ideas.
So, that’s the context.
Laws are made by cleek’s 560+ people. They are nominally the representatives of the actual human people who elect them, but in fact they have obligations to other parties as well. Their allegiances are divided between the folks who vote for them, and the folks who write them checks so they can afford to run for office.
We are, to a large degree, a nation governed by people who speak for moneyed interests of various kinds. Money makes the rules, to a degree that undermines or even negates the principle of representational republican governance.
There are ways to address this, but I don’t see that we have the will or discipline required to do it.
First, we live in a country where things like managing prescription drug prices via public action and guaranteed parental leave are thought of as radical left ideas.
So, that’s the context.
Laws are made by cleek’s 560+ people. They are nominally the representatives of the actual human people who elect them, but in fact they have obligations to other parties as well. Their allegiances are divided between the folks who vote for them, and the folks who write them checks so they can afford to run for office.
We are, to a large degree, a nation governed by people who speak for moneyed interests of various kinds. Money makes the rules, to a degree that undermines or even negates the principle of representational republican governance.
There are ways to address this, but I don’t see that we have the will or discipline required to do it.
we live in a country where things like managing prescription drug prices via public action and guaranteed parental leave are thought of as radical left ideas
You know, for just a second I had a mind-cramp where this could have been part of the plot of a far-fetched dystopian futuristic novel…
we live in a country where things like managing prescription drug prices via public action and guaranteed parental leave are thought of as radical left ideas
You know, for just a second I had a mind-cramp where this could have been part of the plot of a far-fetched dystopian futuristic novel…
From what I have read negotiating for lower drug prices was the most popular of all the proposals, but corporations don’t like it.
To be precise, pharmaceutical corporations dislike it. Other corporations, however, don’t really have a problem with it. Since, after all, it would cut the costs of company health plans. (It’s not like they are going to promptly roll the savings over into wage increases, so it’s money in their pockets.)
Of course, said pharmaceutical companiea are Sinema’s biggest donors by far….
From what I have read negotiating for lower drug prices was the most popular of all the proposals, but corporations don’t like it.
To be precise, pharmaceutical corporations dislike it. Other corporations, however, don’t really have a problem with it. Since, after all, it would cut the costs of company health plans. (It’s not like they are going to promptly roll the savings over into wage increases, so it’s money in their pockets.)
Of course, said pharmaceutical companiea are Sinema’s biggest donors by far….
We are, to a large degree, a nation governed by people who speak for moneyed interests of various kinds. Money makes the rules, to a degree that undermines or even negates the principle of representational republican governance.
There are ways to address this, but I don’t see that we have the will or discipline required to do it.
As I recall, we did have the will and the discipline. Then came Citizens United.
We are, to a large degree, a nation governed by people who speak for moneyed interests of various kinds. Money makes the rules, to a degree that undermines or even negates the principle of representational republican governance.
There are ways to address this, but I don’t see that we have the will or discipline required to do it.
As I recall, we did have the will and the discipline. Then came Citizens United.
“we live in a country….”
I read this article and THEN scrolled up and looked at the byline:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/scary-future-american-right-national-conservatism-conference/620746/
This one, too:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/caesarism-from-post-liberal-right/
“We live in a country” … that has engendered, by some twisted, perverted logic that was embedded from the getgo in the cellular structure of the concept of Americanism, an appalling (when we get over the shock of being appalled, we’ll get to the solution), fascist, right wing political movement, not the first time, but this one has what bookies would call “legs”. It’s everyone’s fault but the conservative movement’s. I’ll take the blame, but never mind that. Young, handsome, pretty, designer jackbooted fuckers. Also, relentlessly cheerful, like SS troops supervising the digging of mass graves for Jews and throwing babies up in the air and catching them on the business end of their bayonets, and returning home to enjoy the western canon, much to the disappointment of the canon itself, the latter having been mistake for a cannon.
The only comfort I find in those articles is that Brooks, and by extension the remaining reasonable (talk about a word that is nothing more than a bloody sheet hung out of the Overton Window) conservatives form a kind of provisional demilitarized zone, like the one between the two Koreas, FOR THE TIME BEING.
The latter innocents will be killed first by the growing and malignant fascist right wing in America, so I’ll have a bit of time to carry out what needs to be done before they get around to me.
As to Dreher, the coy, fake orthodox Christian, he’ll go along with Deneen’s and Ahmari’s project to wipe history off the map all the way back to before the Enlightenment as long as those fucks eliminate Dreher’s obsessional bugaboo …. everyone who can’t quite decide between a pair of trousers and a dress when they leave the house in the morning.
In other news … not really “other”, but the same subhuman conservative shit, it’s time Reps Omar and AOC strap on Second Amendment solutions and do a Rittenhouse on armed subhuman thug vermin who expressly threaten to murder them in the hallowed halls of the gummint that conservative filth don’t want to pay for.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/morning-memo/omar-response-boebert-racist-jihad-squad
Not surprisingly, except to the mealy-mouthed, both-sides-do-it purveyors whose expressions are constantly frozen into a rictus of surprise at every newly upped ratchet of the conservative murder syndicate, Rittenhouse looks like he’ll beat them to it in the now fully fetched nowtopian right this fucking minute reality show that has us in its vice-grip jaws.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/18/matt-gaetz-kyle-rittenhouse-congressional-intern/
Well, at least the next fascist insurrectionist band of tourists looking to hang Nancy Pelosi and company will have an armed greeter and guide to Democratic hidey-holes in the U.S. Capitol, that will be left as a burned-out hulk the next time the conservative movement moves again, if they aren’t stopped cold right fucking now.
Remember the baby and the bathwater.
They are now one, having swallowed each other.
Throw.
So, Gaetz, Goser, and Boebert (Tucker Carlson is idling the getaway car in the alley for quick dispatch to the Trumpcave butlered by Mitch the Bitch) walk into a bar in the Bronx with AOC and Omar offering generous pours to their valued customers.
The three thugs state their business word for word from their twitter threads.
Quick edit to three bullet-riddled conservative corpses covered in sheets and being loaded into meat wagons for the ride downtown to the Coroner’s office, probably in Texas, where lead poisoning among the true believers is not recognized among the causes of death, but rather as an admirable rapturing of soulless soles.
The getaway driver and his monied evil fucks get away.
Again.
“we live in a country….”
I read this article and THEN scrolled up and looked at the byline:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/scary-future-american-right-national-conservatism-conference/620746/
This one, too:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/caesarism-from-post-liberal-right/
“We live in a country” … that has engendered, by some twisted, perverted logic that was embedded from the getgo in the cellular structure of the concept of Americanism, an appalling (when we get over the shock of being appalled, we’ll get to the solution), fascist, right wing political movement, not the first time, but this one has what bookies would call “legs”. It’s everyone’s fault but the conservative movement’s. I’ll take the blame, but never mind that. Young, handsome, pretty, designer jackbooted fuckers. Also, relentlessly cheerful, like SS troops supervising the digging of mass graves for Jews and throwing babies up in the air and catching them on the business end of their bayonets, and returning home to enjoy the western canon, much to the disappointment of the canon itself, the latter having been mistake for a cannon.
The only comfort I find in those articles is that Brooks, and by extension the remaining reasonable (talk about a word that is nothing more than a bloody sheet hung out of the Overton Window) conservatives form a kind of provisional demilitarized zone, like the one between the two Koreas, FOR THE TIME BEING.
The latter innocents will be killed first by the growing and malignant fascist right wing in America, so I’ll have a bit of time to carry out what needs to be done before they get around to me.
As to Dreher, the coy, fake orthodox Christian, he’ll go along with Deneen’s and Ahmari’s project to wipe history off the map all the way back to before the Enlightenment as long as those fucks eliminate Dreher’s obsessional bugaboo …. everyone who can’t quite decide between a pair of trousers and a dress when they leave the house in the morning.
In other news … not really “other”, but the same subhuman conservative shit, it’s time Reps Omar and AOC strap on Second Amendment solutions and do a Rittenhouse on armed subhuman thug vermin who expressly threaten to murder them in the hallowed halls of the gummint that conservative filth don’t want to pay for.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/morning-memo/omar-response-boebert-racist-jihad-squad
Not surprisingly, except to the mealy-mouthed, both-sides-do-it purveyors whose expressions are constantly frozen into a rictus of surprise at every newly upped ratchet of the conservative murder syndicate, Rittenhouse looks like he’ll beat them to it in the now fully fetched nowtopian right this fucking minute reality show that has us in its vice-grip jaws.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/18/matt-gaetz-kyle-rittenhouse-congressional-intern/
Well, at least the next fascist insurrectionist band of tourists looking to hang Nancy Pelosi and company will have an armed greeter and guide to Democratic hidey-holes in the U.S. Capitol, that will be left as a burned-out hulk the next time the conservative movement moves again, if they aren’t stopped cold right fucking now.
Remember the baby and the bathwater.
They are now one, having swallowed each other.
Throw.
So, Gaetz, Goser, and Boebert (Tucker Carlson is idling the getaway car in the alley for quick dispatch to the Trumpcave butlered by Mitch the Bitch) walk into a bar in the Bronx with AOC and Omar offering generous pours to their valued customers.
The three thugs state their business word for word from their twitter threads.
Quick edit to three bullet-riddled conservative corpses covered in sheets and being loaded into meat wagons for the ride downtown to the Coroner’s office, probably in Texas, where lead poisoning among the true believers is not recognized among the causes of death, but rather as an admirable rapturing of soulless soles.
The getaway driver and his monied evil fucks get away.
Again.
Keep in mind that Citizens United also protects progressive and left-leaning nonprofits, labor unions, and reliably Democratic membership associations. Even that right-wing organization the ACLU was in favor of the ruling.
Keep in mind that Citizens United also protects progressive and left-leaning nonprofits, labor unions, and reliably Democratic membership associations. Even that right-wing organization the ACLU was in favor of the ruling.
As I recall, we did have the will and the discipline. Then came Citizens United.
A result stemming from a court appointed President who nominated judges representing a distinct minority viewpoint, approved by a majority of senators representing a minority of our national population, who routinely go out of their way to make rulings favorable to ALLcorporate interests (many more than just Citizens United.)
But I guess we shall just have to settle. For do we not live in the best of all possible worlds? Resistance is futile.
As I recall, we did have the will and the discipline. Then came Citizens United.
A result stemming from a court appointed President who nominated judges representing a distinct minority viewpoint, approved by a majority of senators representing a minority of our national population, who routinely go out of their way to make rulings favorable to ALLcorporate interests (many more than just Citizens United.)
But I guess we shall just have to settle. For do we not live in the best of all possible worlds? Resistance is futile.
The specific case of Citizens United WAS decided correctly (and that’s what e.g. the ACLU agreed with). The problem was not the specific case but the unrequested extension/broadening.
Plus the ‘reporting of money source optional’ (by guys who knew exactly that the GOP and some Dems would block any attempt to make it mandatory. I would have bet a lot that the Court would have declared that part also unconstitutional, if Congress somehow made a law in that direction).
The specific case of Citizens United WAS decided correctly (and that’s what e.g. the ACLU agreed with). The problem was not the specific case but the unrequested extension/broadening.
Plus the ‘reporting of money source optional’ (by guys who knew exactly that the GOP and some Dems would block any attempt to make it mandatory. I would have bet a lot that the Court would have declared that part also unconstitutional, if Congress somehow made a law in that direction).
Keep in mind that Citizens United also protects progressive and left-leaning nonprofits, labor unions, and reliably Democratic membership associations.
Regardless of who benefitted, it was still a bad decision with bad, and entirely foreseeable, consequences. (Whether they were unintended consequences I cannot say.)
Keep in mind that Citizens United also protects progressive and left-leaning nonprofits, labor unions, and reliably Democratic membership associations.
Regardless of who benefitted, it was still a bad decision with bad, and entirely foreseeable, consequences. (Whether they were unintended consequences I cannot say.)
cleek: but right now [progressives] don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept.
I know what you mean, cleek, but it’s unfortunate that the grammar and vocabulary of political discourse can leave the impression that “progressives” want lower drug prices for themselves, climate change mitigation for their own private climate, and so forth.
Not that I know how I’d rephrase your comment, mind you. We argue using the language we have, not the language we wish we had.
–TP
cleek: but right now [progressives] don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept.
I know what you mean, cleek, but it’s unfortunate that the grammar and vocabulary of political discourse can leave the impression that “progressives” want lower drug prices for themselves, climate change mitigation for their own private climate, and so forth.
Not that I know how I’d rephrase your comment, mind you. We argue using the language we have, not the language we wish we had.
–TP
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a38278097/marco-rubio-block-china-ambassador-nominee/
Further downside to this is that we won’t have an Ambassador in Peking to ask, prior to launching of the nuclear war republicans will fucking give us, that they direct their ultrasonic nuclear warheads solely to conservative-congested red states to incinerate the malignant villains, saving us the time.
Trump schooled Rubio on how to jack off small change with smaller hands.
Deport the shit heel back to Cuba and let them snuff him.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a38278097/marco-rubio-block-china-ambassador-nominee/
Further downside to this is that we won’t have an Ambassador in Peking to ask, prior to launching of the nuclear war republicans will fucking give us, that they direct their ultrasonic nuclear warheads solely to conservative-congested red states to incinerate the malignant villains, saving us the time.
Trump schooled Rubio on how to jack off small change with smaller hands.
Deport the shit heel back to Cuba and let them snuff him.
This is back to another topic–racism, but here is a long link that I find really worthwhile. I haven’t finished it.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/11/a-contentious-conversation-on-systemic-racism-in-america
BTW, Nathan Robinson is a complete asshole to his friends and my opinion of him dropped quite a bit recently, but he is still a good writer (albeit too longwinded) and a great interviewer.
This is back to another topic–racism, but here is a long link that I find really worthwhile. I haven’t finished it.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/11/a-contentious-conversation-on-systemic-racism-in-america
BTW, Nathan Robinson is a complete asshole to his friends and my opinion of him dropped quite a bit recently, but he is still a good writer (albeit too longwinded) and a great interviewer.
Deport the shit heel back to Cuba and let them snuff him.
Seems more likely that they’d make him Minister of Information. His ability to ignore reality and spout nonsense with a straight face would be valuable enough for them to get past his family’s fleeing the island a generation ago.
Deport the shit heel back to Cuba and let them snuff him.
Seems more likely that they’d make him Minister of Information. His ability to ignore reality and spout nonsense with a straight face would be valuable enough for them to get past his family’s fleeing the island a generation ago.
I find the Loury interview that Donald linked to above to be a deep, and honest back-and-forth on race and racism that is worthy of a deep dig. I disagree at many points with Loury and find his framing here to be a worthwhile intervention, but unjust and unhelpful in its asymmetry of judgment and consequence. Still a very worthwhile read for the nuance and framing.
I hope Robinson did provoke Loury to some deeper reflection and a better synthesis of the moral conundrum he’s working on. It’s clear Loury is working in good faith on these issues, but it also seems he’s caught in his own double consciousness and feeling that parallax quite acutely in this moment.
I find the Loury interview that Donald linked to above to be a deep, and honest back-and-forth on race and racism that is worthy of a deep dig. I disagree at many points with Loury and find his framing here to be a worthwhile intervention, but unjust and unhelpful in its asymmetry of judgment and consequence. Still a very worthwhile read for the nuance and framing.
I hope Robinson did provoke Loury to some deeper reflection and a better synthesis of the moral conundrum he’s working on. It’s clear Loury is working in good faith on these issues, but it also seems he’s caught in his own double consciousness and feeling that parallax quite acutely in this moment.
but right now they don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept. this is how every negotiation works.
If I keep coming at these arguments, it’s because the UC-AFT just finished negotiating a contract full of things that were unacceptable to the university for 2.5 years.
https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2021/11/uc-lecturer-strike-2/
There is a need for compromise, but there is also a need for building strength and resolve, and creating public pressure. I see moderates focusing on the compromise, but squirming at the sharp elbows that build strength and galvanize a sense of purpose.
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
but right now they don’t have the numbers to get all of what they want, so they have to settle for those things that they and everyone else can accept. this is how every negotiation works.
If I keep coming at these arguments, it’s because the UC-AFT just finished negotiating a contract full of things that were unacceptable to the university for 2.5 years.
https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2021/11/uc-lecturer-strike-2/
There is a need for compromise, but there is also a need for building strength and resolve, and creating public pressure. I see moderates focusing on the compromise, but squirming at the sharp elbows that build strength and galvanize a sense of purpose.
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
Or you can accept a compromise which gives you less (perhaps even far less) than you might like. And then use the success of the things that you did get to argue for getting more of the things you want.
Of course part of such an approach is that you have to limit (not eliminate, but limit) the sharp elbows you throw at those who agreed to the compromise but would not go further. It can be irritating to practice that kind of restraint.
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
Or you can accept a compromise which gives you less (perhaps even far less) than you might like. And then use the success of the things that you did get to argue for getting more of the things you want.
Of course part of such an approach is that you have to limit (not eliminate, but limit) the sharp elbows you throw at those who agreed to the compromise but would not go further. It can be irritating to practice that kind of restraint.
All of this discussion seems to assume that all parties are equally committed to a deliberative process where everyone advocates for their point of view and the result is a sort-of common-ground consensus – the set of things that everyone can basically live with – and we move ahead from there.
What we actually have is a party that represents a minority of the population, but which has outsize leverage due to the structure of our political institutions (Senate, Electoral College) but which is furthermore determined to prevail through any means necessary, including passing laws to make it more difficult for people who don’t happen to vote for them to vote, gerrymandering, replacing election officials with loyalists, etc.
Not to mention a coup attempt.
Our form of government works if all parties participate in good faith. All parties are not participating in good faith.
Not only are they not participating in good faith, their base threatens and in fact prepares for violence if they don’t prevail.
I appreciate the calls for reasoned words to try to win over the less-rabid folks in the right wing. But I think we’re past all that, at this point. I don’t know where we are, exactly, nor do I have any bright ideas about how to function effectively in the current context.
But somewhere along the line, the option of reasoned discourse and persuasion was abandoned.
We’re living in a weird time, I have no idea where it’s gonna land.
All of this discussion seems to assume that all parties are equally committed to a deliberative process where everyone advocates for their point of view and the result is a sort-of common-ground consensus – the set of things that everyone can basically live with – and we move ahead from there.
What we actually have is a party that represents a minority of the population, but which has outsize leverage due to the structure of our political institutions (Senate, Electoral College) but which is furthermore determined to prevail through any means necessary, including passing laws to make it more difficult for people who don’t happen to vote for them to vote, gerrymandering, replacing election officials with loyalists, etc.
Not to mention a coup attempt.
Our form of government works if all parties participate in good faith. All parties are not participating in good faith.
Not only are they not participating in good faith, their base threatens and in fact prepares for violence if they don’t prevail.
I appreciate the calls for reasoned words to try to win over the less-rabid folks in the right wing. But I think we’re past all that, at this point. I don’t know where we are, exactly, nor do I have any bright ideas about how to function effectively in the current context.
But somewhere along the line, the option of reasoned discourse and persuasion was abandoned.
We’re living in a weird time, I have no idea where it’s gonna land.
unhinged?
Let me show you unhinged.
Dude’s a US House Rep.
unhinged?
Let me show you unhinged.
Dude’s a US House Rep.
Not so much unhinged as out the door and down the rabbit hole. Unhinged would be a lot more attached to reality that is demonstrated there.
All of this discussion seems to assume that all parties are equally committed to a deliberative process where everyone advocates for their point of view and the result is a sort-of common-ground consensus – the set of things that everyone can basically live with – and we move ahead from there.
You will note that the discussion here was AFAICT about internal discussions within the Democratic Party. Because, as you say, people in the Congressional GOP with whom one can bargain in good faith are thin on the ground. (And definitely not being allowed into anything resembling a leadership position.)
Not so much unhinged as out the door and down the rabbit hole. Unhinged would be a lot more attached to reality that is demonstrated there.
All of this discussion seems to assume that all parties are equally committed to a deliberative process where everyone advocates for their point of view and the result is a sort-of common-ground consensus – the set of things that everyone can basically live with – and we move ahead from there.
You will note that the discussion here was AFAICT about internal discussions within the Democratic Party. Because, as you say, people in the Congressional GOP with whom one can bargain in good faith are thin on the ground. (And definitely not being allowed into anything resembling a leadership position.)
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
not sure if i’m advocating for apology.
but, the way you win negotiations is to have leverage. and progressive Dems simply do not don’t have much of it because there aren’t enough of them. they have the threat of taking down the caucus and definitely getting nothing, but that’s stupid. so, they aren’t going to get many wins for things that aren’t supported by the rest of the Dem caucus. and, you can bet that all those evil corrupt centrist sell-out aren’t getting everything they want either.
You cannot apologize yourself into a stronger position for negotiation. All you can do is settle for status quo.
not sure if i’m advocating for apology.
but, the way you win negotiations is to have leverage. and progressive Dems simply do not don’t have much of it because there aren’t enough of them. they have the threat of taking down the caucus and definitely getting nothing, but that’s stupid. so, they aren’t going to get many wins for things that aren’t supported by the rest of the Dem caucus. and, you can bet that all those evil corrupt centrist sell-out aren’t getting everything they want either.
Dude’s a US House Rep.
feels like all the Dems he showed have something in common. i just can’t quite put my finger on it…
hmm
Dude’s a US House Rep.
feels like all the Dems he showed have something in common. i just can’t quite put my finger on it…
hmm
The weird thing about Crenshaw (the guy in the ‘unhinged’ video) is that, on policy, he’s not that much of a nutjob.
He’s very conservative, and he’s a profound nationalist. He’s not, however, down the QAnon rathole or similar, as far as I can tell.
Not my guy, but if I met him in person we could probably have a conversation.
So why the “Red Dawn” cosplay bullshit?
I appreciate his military service, but his opposite parties in the video – AOC, Schumer, et al – are not his freaking enemies. The antifa folks he parodies are not the ones walking around in public with AR-15’s.
This isn’t a fucking war. First person shooter games are not a useful model for governance. The people these people fantasize about killing are their neighbors.
Lately I find myself considering getting a firearms license and getting some basic tactical training. Which are things that are widely and readily available, even here in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
Because some knucklehead is gonna watch Crenshaw’s video and decide that, hell yeah, what he or she really needs to do is go shoot some liberals.
This shit is not a joke anymore.
Conservatives need to get your people sorted out. Yeah, yeah, I know, BLM and antifa, both sides, blah blah blah.
Liberals in positions of public office and/or public responsibility are not talking about shooting conservatives.
Conservatives in positions of public office and/or public responsibility – the public faces of the positions you claim to endorse – regularly talk openly of violence against their counterparties.
It needs to stop. Like, 20 years ago. But now will do.
People Like Me have no influence over it. People Like You do. You tolerate it, you vote for the assholes who think all of this is a cute game and foster this kind of rhetoric and behavior.
I can’t do a damned thing to make it stop. You can.
Make it stop.
I have zero interest in getting a firearm, zero interest in any of it. But how many times do I have to listen to the people you guys vote for threaten my life and the lives of people like me before I take it seriously.
A conversation under the threat of violence *is not a conversation*.
Make it fucking stop.
The weird thing about Crenshaw (the guy in the ‘unhinged’ video) is that, on policy, he’s not that much of a nutjob.
He’s very conservative, and he’s a profound nationalist. He’s not, however, down the QAnon rathole or similar, as far as I can tell.
Not my guy, but if I met him in person we could probably have a conversation.
So why the “Red Dawn” cosplay bullshit?
I appreciate his military service, but his opposite parties in the video – AOC, Schumer, et al – are not his freaking enemies. The antifa folks he parodies are not the ones walking around in public with AR-15’s.
This isn’t a fucking war. First person shooter games are not a useful model for governance. The people these people fantasize about killing are their neighbors.
Lately I find myself considering getting a firearms license and getting some basic tactical training. Which are things that are widely and readily available, even here in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
Because some knucklehead is gonna watch Crenshaw’s video and decide that, hell yeah, what he or she really needs to do is go shoot some liberals.
This shit is not a joke anymore.
Conservatives need to get your people sorted out. Yeah, yeah, I know, BLM and antifa, both sides, blah blah blah.
Liberals in positions of public office and/or public responsibility are not talking about shooting conservatives.
Conservatives in positions of public office and/or public responsibility – the public faces of the positions you claim to endorse – regularly talk openly of violence against their counterparties.
It needs to stop. Like, 20 years ago. But now will do.
People Like Me have no influence over it. People Like You do. You tolerate it, you vote for the assholes who think all of this is a cute game and foster this kind of rhetoric and behavior.
I can’t do a damned thing to make it stop. You can.
Make it stop.
I have zero interest in getting a firearm, zero interest in any of it. But how many times do I have to listen to the people you guys vote for threaten my life and the lives of people like me before I take it seriously.
A conversation under the threat of violence *is not a conversation*.
Make it fucking stop.
so, they aren’t going to get many wins for things that aren’t supported by the rest of the Dem caucus.
A few wins is better than none, no? The Progressive Caucus represents nearly 1/2 of the Dem caucus. To poo-poo their leverage is pretty astounding, given that 10 ‘moderates’ basically started out with a blackmail threat…but what’s a little treachery among allies? As for these centrists? Well, what, exactly, are they NOT getting out of this mess? They could have joined the PC and passed both bills with the caveat that the Senate would have to go along…thus maximizing whatever leverage the House had……but noooo. Now the whole caucus (voting on BBB tonight) is basically begging for something they all claim to support deeply, cross my heart, hope to lie. Way to go, moderates.
The PC played the hand they had to the hilt. Is that not what one is supposed to do? Good on them. They lost. But it is only one battle in what is a war about just what the fuck America is about. This is far from over.
so, they aren’t going to get many wins for things that aren’t supported by the rest of the Dem caucus.
A few wins is better than none, no? The Progressive Caucus represents nearly 1/2 of the Dem caucus. To poo-poo their leverage is pretty astounding, given that 10 ‘moderates’ basically started out with a blackmail threat…but what’s a little treachery among allies? As for these centrists? Well, what, exactly, are they NOT getting out of this mess? They could have joined the PC and passed both bills with the caveat that the Senate would have to go along…thus maximizing whatever leverage the House had……but noooo. Now the whole caucus (voting on BBB tonight) is basically begging for something they all claim to support deeply, cross my heart, hope to lie. Way to go, moderates.
The PC played the hand they had to the hilt. Is that not what one is supposed to do? Good on them. They lost. But it is only one battle in what is a war about just what the fuck America is about. This is far from over.
Lately I find myself considering getting a firearms license and getting some basic tactical training. Which are things that are widely and readily available, even here in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
Alas, I have had the same thought. (The training is available here in the People’s Republic of California as well.) It’s been half a century since I had occasion to fire a gun; I’m thinking I’m probably a bit rusty.
Lately I find myself considering getting a firearms license and getting some basic tactical training. Which are things that are widely and readily available, even here in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
Alas, I have had the same thought. (The training is available here in the People’s Republic of California as well.) It’s been half a century since I had occasion to fire a gun; I’m thinking I’m probably a bit rusty.
The PC played the hand they had to the hilt. Is that not what one is supposed to do? Good on them. They lost.
On the contrary, they won. It wasn’t a total victory; it won’t be, even if the BBB bill passes. But a victory it was none the less. And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.
The PC played the hand they had to the hilt. Is that not what one is supposed to do? Good on them. They lost.
On the contrary, they won. It wasn’t a total victory; it won’t be, even if the BBB bill passes. But a victory it was none the less. And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.
“ And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.”
It’s not about them. It’s about the issues.. it isn’t a sporting event.
“ And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.”
It’s not about them. It’s about the issues.. it isn’t a sporting event.
It’s not about them. It’s about the issues.. it isn’t a sporting event.
No, it isn’t sport. But I believe the analogy was to war — see “battle” above. (The casualty numbers are far closer to a war than a sporting event, too.) Arguably, legislation is more like logistics than combat, but still it’s all part of the same effort.
It’s not about them. It’s about the issues.. it isn’t a sporting event.
No, it isn’t sport. But I believe the analogy was to war — see “battle” above. (The casualty numbers are far closer to a war than a sporting event, too.) Arguably, legislation is more like logistics than combat, but still it’s all part of the same effort.
“It’s been half a century since I had occasion to fire a gun; I’m thinking I’m probably a bit rusty.”
I had the same situation and the same reaction, but it turned out that the “calming” effects of the intervening years has greatly improved my ability to put holes near the center of paper targets.
Not sure exactly what the criterion is for a US Army “marksman” badge, but if I haven’t gotten there, I’m close.
It’s fun, too.
“It’s been half a century since I had occasion to fire a gun; I’m thinking I’m probably a bit rusty.”
I had the same situation and the same reaction, but it turned out that the “calming” effects of the intervening years has greatly improved my ability to put holes near the center of paper targets.
Not sure exactly what the criterion is for a US Army “marksman” badge, but if I haven’t gotten there, I’m close.
It’s fun, too.
The Progressive Caucus represents nearly 1/2 of the Dem caucus
fewer than 100 House members, and … one Senator (who is only a Democrat when he needs the party infrastructure for elections).
they. don’t. have. the. numbers.
The Progressive Caucus represents nearly 1/2 of the Dem caucus
fewer than 100 House members, and … one Senator (who is only a Democrat when he needs the party infrastructure for elections).
they. don’t. have. the. numbers.
But a victory it was none the less. And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.
what the PC boosters want you to know is that any victory that requires compromise on anything is a complete loss.
But a victory it was none the less. And frankly, it disrespects the PC to suggest otherwise.
what the PC boosters want you to know is that any victory that requires compromise on anything is a complete loss.
what the PC boosters want you to know is that any victory that requires compromise on anything is a complete loss.
I’d noticed that propensity to make the pertect the enemy of the good.
what the PC boosters want you to know is that any victory that requires compromise on anything is a complete loss.
I’d noticed that propensity to make the pertect the enemy of the good.