by liberal japonicus
Hope I don’t insult everyone by suggesting that there may be a lot of people here who are bibliophiles. So, an article.
https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2021/09/why-are-ebooks-so-terrible/620068/
I’ve got some thoughts, but the lamp is lit.
The author had me instantly with:
It’s just so me.
The author had me instantly with:
It’s just so me.
Ebooks may be an abomination but how else are you going to be able to carry a semi-truck load of books around in your pocket?
It’s been some years since I’ve read a physical book. I find it much more convenient to read them on my computer.
Ebooks may be an abomination but how else are you going to be able to carry a semi-truck load of books around in your pocket?
It’s been some years since I’ve read a physical book. I find it much more convenient to read them on my computer.
Ebooks are fine. Kindles are terrible (last I used one— the battery died) if you want to read a book with equations in it , but that is what iPads are for.
I read the piece and thought “ meh”. I like physical books too, but it’s all just personal preference. Plus what Charles said.
Ebooks are fine. Kindles are terrible (last I used one— the battery died) if you want to read a book with equations in it , but that is what iPads are for.
I read the piece and thought “ meh”. I like physical books too, but it’s all just personal preference. Plus what Charles said.
Perhaps, despite my long career in technology and media, I’m a secret Luddite.
I’m with wj.
I have a year and a half to go before I hit full retirement. When I get there, I hope to have as little to do with tech as possible.
I use it a lot, but it has a way of taking over your life. It’s taken over enough of mine. I’m grateful for the career it’s provided me, but I’ve had enough of it.
In the meantime, and perhaps paradoxically, I do almost all of my reading online. I use Libby, which is an app that public libraries (and maybe others) use to make books available.
So, library books, without having to actually go to the library.
When I retire, I’ll go to the library in brick and mortar form. And when I’m not reading, I’ll sit in the back yard and listen to the birds.
Can’t wait.
Perhaps, despite my long career in technology and media, I’m a secret Luddite.
I’m with wj.
I have a year and a half to go before I hit full retirement. When I get there, I hope to have as little to do with tech as possible.
I use it a lot, but it has a way of taking over your life. It’s taken over enough of mine. I’m grateful for the career it’s provided me, but I’ve had enough of it.
In the meantime, and perhaps paradoxically, I do almost all of my reading online. I use Libby, which is an app that public libraries (and maybe others) use to make books available.
So, library books, without having to actually go to the library.
When I retire, I’ll go to the library in brick and mortar form. And when I’m not reading, I’ll sit in the back yard and listen to the birds.
Can’t wait.
I find it much more convenient to read them on my computer.
The convenience, for me, is being able to read in bed while my wife is asleep. We are probably about 2 hours off-cycle as far as our personal circadian rhythms. She’s out cold by 10 PM and up by 5 AM. I’ve moderated my schedule since my vampire days of hanging out until 2 or 3 AM (or, until the sky starts getting light…), but I’m still kind of an 8 AM to midnight guy.
Given my druthers, I really like books. Physical books. Then again, I still take notes in longhand, with a pen (fountain pen no less) on paper. The range of senses involved in dealing with tangible, non-digital artifacts is more engaging.
To me, anyway.
Luddite.
I find it much more convenient to read them on my computer.
The convenience, for me, is being able to read in bed while my wife is asleep. We are probably about 2 hours off-cycle as far as our personal circadian rhythms. She’s out cold by 10 PM and up by 5 AM. I’ve moderated my schedule since my vampire days of hanging out until 2 or 3 AM (or, until the sky starts getting light…), but I’m still kind of an 8 AM to midnight guy.
Given my druthers, I really like books. Physical books. Then again, I still take notes in longhand, with a pen (fountain pen no less) on paper. The range of senses involved in dealing with tangible, non-digital artifacts is more engaging.
To me, anyway.
Luddite.
I use Libby, which is an app that public libraries (and maybe others) use to make books available.
Interesting. Our public library does its ebooks with Kindle. I don’t have a dedicated Kindle box, but my tablet has the app, which is sufficient.
While I prefer a hard copy, I do like being able to get a copy of something obscure and/or very popular (i.e. with a waiting list) without the long wait.
I use Libby, which is an app that public libraries (and maybe others) use to make books available.
Interesting. Our public library does its ebooks with Kindle. I don’t have a dedicated Kindle box, but my tablet has the app, which is sufficient.
While I prefer a hard copy, I do like being able to get a copy of something obscure and/or very popular (i.e. with a waiting list) without the long wait.
Ah, Ian Bogost.
Codex or e-text is very contextual for me. I usually read novels on my iPad since my old e-paper Nook died. Non-fiction does not go as well, in part because the tables and figures don’t translate seamlessly. Also, if I’m going to teach it in a classroom or write about it, the physical codex is just much more convenient because the main citation systems are native to them and e-texts leave everyone feeling adrift with no fixed landmarks.
And, yes, random access and skimming, though those things could also be facilitated with other forms of skimming via word cloud and some graphical representations of how ideas link across the pages, but no e-publishers are doing that yet. The academic e-text startups are all trying to figure out ways to kill the used textbook market and become book spotify.
I do quite like Perusall for assigning shorter texts for classes, though – anything chapter length or shorter in pdf form. Perusall lets you assign it and then has the class annotate the readings. They interact more closely with the text and they get to see each others’ comments and notes, which helps to get a discussion going.
You can tell that Bogost comes to lit from the informatics side of culture and media studies because he admits he’s mostly a non-fiction reader (and you can feel this in the way that he connects with the video games he writes about as well, not a humanities scholar).
I know a lot of codex snobs in the lit departments, sure, but surprisingly enough, I think the majority of my lit friends and acquaintances favor audiobooks for their lit. I think that’s because they listen to give their eyes a break and to detox from all the reading and commenting that is their daily work. It makes stories-for-pleasure a bit less worklike.
Self pub authors’ e-texts don’t look like trad books because it costs to hire a decent layout editor. My wife has published one novel through her agency (publisher declined to pick up the third book in a trilogy) and so the agency hired the same freelance layout editor that had done the previous novels (and also the same cover artist and the same book narrator for th audiobook once the book had earned enough to get an audiobook done). That’s all out-of-pocket expenses that are usually covered by the publisher and paid back before the author starts to make any royalties. Most self-pubs aren’t going to be able to make any money that way until they can build up a loyal readership.
Ah, Ian Bogost.
Codex or e-text is very contextual for me. I usually read novels on my iPad since my old e-paper Nook died. Non-fiction does not go as well, in part because the tables and figures don’t translate seamlessly. Also, if I’m going to teach it in a classroom or write about it, the physical codex is just much more convenient because the main citation systems are native to them and e-texts leave everyone feeling adrift with no fixed landmarks.
And, yes, random access and skimming, though those things could also be facilitated with other forms of skimming via word cloud and some graphical representations of how ideas link across the pages, but no e-publishers are doing that yet. The academic e-text startups are all trying to figure out ways to kill the used textbook market and become book spotify.
I do quite like Perusall for assigning shorter texts for classes, though – anything chapter length or shorter in pdf form. Perusall lets you assign it and then has the class annotate the readings. They interact more closely with the text and they get to see each others’ comments and notes, which helps to get a discussion going.
You can tell that Bogost comes to lit from the informatics side of culture and media studies because he admits he’s mostly a non-fiction reader (and you can feel this in the way that he connects with the video games he writes about as well, not a humanities scholar).
I know a lot of codex snobs in the lit departments, sure, but surprisingly enough, I think the majority of my lit friends and acquaintances favor audiobooks for their lit. I think that’s because they listen to give their eyes a break and to detox from all the reading and commenting that is their daily work. It makes stories-for-pleasure a bit less worklike.
Self pub authors’ e-texts don’t look like trad books because it costs to hire a decent layout editor. My wife has published one novel through her agency (publisher declined to pick up the third book in a trilogy) and so the agency hired the same freelance layout editor that had done the previous novels (and also the same cover artist and the same book narrator for th audiobook once the book had earned enough to get an audiobook done). That’s all out-of-pocket expenses that are usually covered by the publisher and paid back before the author starts to make any royalties. Most self-pubs aren’t going to be able to make any money that way until they can build up a loyal readership.
Short texts on a screen are OK but whole books? I hate that. So, more than strictly necessary goes through the printer to be read on paper. Loose A4 sheets are not ideal but still, for me, beat the alternative. Despite my terrible handwriting I prefer to make notes on paper too. And the epic I am currently writing is 90% or more on paper and has to by typed afterwards into the computer (which takes ages). But imo the quality of writing is superior, if it’s done by hand (i.e. with a pen) first.
I don’t buy ebooks but while still formally a student I can download huge amounts of books in pdf form via the university library free of charge. Far more than I am ever going to actually read but as long as the need may arrive somewhere in the future…
No costs and no physical storage problem*, that’s the main advantage.
*as long as the external harddisks do not die.
Short texts on a screen are OK but whole books? I hate that. So, more than strictly necessary goes through the printer to be read on paper. Loose A4 sheets are not ideal but still, for me, beat the alternative. Despite my terrible handwriting I prefer to make notes on paper too. And the epic I am currently writing is 90% or more on paper and has to by typed afterwards into the computer (which takes ages). But imo the quality of writing is superior, if it’s done by hand (i.e. with a pen) first.
I don’t buy ebooks but while still formally a student I can download huge amounts of books in pdf form via the university library free of charge. Far more than I am ever going to actually read but as long as the need may arrive somewhere in the future…
No costs and no physical storage problem*, that’s the main advantage.
*as long as the external harddisks do not die.
Ebooks are a very good solution for people with bad eyesight as you can adjust the font size to your liking. Also, the perennial issue with having a proper lighting setup is solved.
I’d love to have a place with a proper library, though. A professor in Paris I knew rented a second apartment just for his books…
Ebooks are a very good solution for people with bad eyesight as you can adjust the font size to your liking. Also, the perennial issue with having a proper lighting setup is solved.
I’d love to have a place with a proper library, though. A professor in Paris I knew rented a second apartment just for his books…
Before I talk about the post, this
The pandemic marks another grim milestone: 1 in 500 Americans have died of covid-19
Holy shit….
Before I talk about the post, this
The pandemic marks another grim milestone: 1 in 500 Americans have died of covid-19
Holy shit….
But about the OP, I have a bit of a sideways take. Do you know anyone who has fell in love with reading without using books? Not fell in love with reading because of books and now finds e-readers make everything easier, but went thru them?
As is usual, my love of tech was tripped up by Japanese. I have avoided e-readers or anything that is going to swamp my Japanese. An early attempt to use the aozorabunko text format flopped for me
https://tejashdatta.medium.com/how-to-read-japanese-books-on-pc-39630cef04b9
And it looks like you still have to use java.
https://rxjun.hatenablog.com/entry/2013/04/17/012305
There was also the problem that you could either have an Amazon US account or an Amazon Japan account, and changing between them could result in various mishaps.
I often wonder what would have happened had google books been able to follow thru.
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-ever-happened-to-google-books
But about the OP, I have a bit of a sideways take. Do you know anyone who has fell in love with reading without using books? Not fell in love with reading because of books and now finds e-readers make everything easier, but went thru them?
As is usual, my love of tech was tripped up by Japanese. I have avoided e-readers or anything that is going to swamp my Japanese. An early attempt to use the aozorabunko text format flopped for me
https://tejashdatta.medium.com/how-to-read-japanese-books-on-pc-39630cef04b9
And it looks like you still have to use java.
https://rxjun.hatenablog.com/entry/2013/04/17/012305
There was also the problem that you could either have an Amazon US account or an Amazon Japan account, and changing between them could result in various mishaps.
I often wonder what would have happened had google books been able to follow thru.
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-ever-happened-to-google-books
Like russell, e-books allow me to read in bed without waking my wife. That’s a BFD because I go to bed rather early, but wake up between each sleep cycle and sometimes I like to read for a little while before falling back to sleep. That factor alone has been sufficient for me to go all e-reader since (checks e-library) 2014.
It’s also nice to have the flexibility for a quick reading session on my phone when circumstances permit since it syncs with my e-reader.
I miss real books, but when we pulled a Marie Kondo session, about four tubs of books were donated to the local public library and the felt pretty good.
Like russell, e-books allow me to read in bed without waking my wife. That’s a BFD because I go to bed rather early, but wake up between each sleep cycle and sometimes I like to read for a little while before falling back to sleep. That factor alone has been sufficient for me to go all e-reader since (checks e-library) 2014.
It’s also nice to have the flexibility for a quick reading session on my phone when circumstances permit since it syncs with my e-reader.
I miss real books, but when we pulled a Marie Kondo session, about four tubs of books were donated to the local public library and the felt pretty good.
I doubt that I’m alone in this, but I feel a VERY strong cultural taboo against damaging or throwing out a book.
Which makes “de-cluttering” much like re-homing pets.
Better not to add the clutter, so yeah, ebooks, particularly for text-only books that I’m unlikely to read more than once.
Anything technical, with equations, tables, figures, needs a good index? Hard copy. The exception being the Table of Isotopes, because it’s a pain to lug around 4000+ pages in two big volumes.
And really, who amoungst us does not have a Table of Isotopes on their mobile phone?
I doubt that I’m alone in this, but I feel a VERY strong cultural taboo against damaging or throwing out a book.
Which makes “de-cluttering” much like re-homing pets.
Better not to add the clutter, so yeah, ebooks, particularly for text-only books that I’m unlikely to read more than once.
Anything technical, with equations, tables, figures, needs a good index? Hard copy. The exception being the Table of Isotopes, because it’s a pain to lug around 4000+ pages in two big volumes.
And really, who amoungst us does not have a Table of Isotopes on their mobile phone?
i like my Kindle Paperwhite. haven’t bought a paper book since getting it (aside from some photo-heavy things).
but, it has its problems. the screen is sometimes agonizingly slow; the contrast is still a bit low; i don’t love the blue-ish light; i’d like a bigger screen; and the browsing UI tends to become unresponsive (aka crash).
but those are all problems with the Paperwhite device specifically. if Amazon could make on that’s as responsive and stable as an iPad, i’d be very happy with it.
i like my Kindle Paperwhite. haven’t bought a paper book since getting it (aside from some photo-heavy things).
but, it has its problems. the screen is sometimes agonizingly slow; the contrast is still a bit low; i don’t love the blue-ish light; i’d like a bigger screen; and the browsing UI tends to become unresponsive (aka crash).
but those are all problems with the Paperwhite device specifically. if Amazon could make on that’s as responsive and stable as an iPad, i’d be very happy with it.
And really, who amoungst us does not have a Table of Isotopes on their mobile phone?
Me due to lacking a mobile let alone smart phone. And it would be less about isotopes than thermodynmaical and chemical compound data (that would require several more volumes and thus likely exceed my physical carrying capacity.
And really, who amoungst us does not have a Table of Isotopes on their mobile phone?
Me due to lacking a mobile let alone smart phone. And it would be less about isotopes than thermodynmaical and chemical compound data (that would require several more volumes and thus likely exceed my physical carrying capacity.
Arguably ebooks and I go way back.
It wasn’t a book that anyone but me (and my co-workers, had they known it existed) could read off the computer. But it was definitely electronic originally.
Arguably ebooks and I go way back.
It wasn’t a book that anyone but me (and my co-workers, had they known it existed) could read off the computer. But it was definitely electronic originally.
I doubt that I’m alone in this, but I feel a VERY strong cultural taboo against damaging or throwing out a book.
Yep. A bit of a long story, I was just an extra in a movie about Yajima Kajiko, a Meiji feminist. (Check her out, really interesting woman) Yajima was appointed headmistress at a Presbyterian mission school over a lot of foreigners and this scene was where she was studying the bible and smoking a kiseru (Japanese tabacco pipe), she fell asleep and the bible caught on fire. One of the other foreigners, already feeling put out that a Japanese woman had been elevated over a foreigner (and was getting a salary of 5 yen while the foreigners were getting 3 yen!), had complained to the founder of the school, so I was one of the foreign teachers standing around looking disapproving and waiting for the founder, a woman named Maria True, to come in and bust her. When she comes in, she prostrates herself on the floor and apologize and Maria True forgives her and says that it’s her fault. (all very Japanese, right?)
Anyway, not that I had to get in character (no lines) but the scene had a bible that had been half burnt and I remember feeling a bit sick on seeing it and I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed. So how will the kindle user who somehow develops the same hunger for books (and it is, isn’t it? I can’t think of a vacation where I didn’t go to a used book store, and I infected my daughter with the fever) feel when they see a book trashed?
I doubt that I’m alone in this, but I feel a VERY strong cultural taboo against damaging or throwing out a book.
Yep. A bit of a long story, I was just an extra in a movie about Yajima Kajiko, a Meiji feminist. (Check her out, really interesting woman) Yajima was appointed headmistress at a Presbyterian mission school over a lot of foreigners and this scene was where she was studying the bible and smoking a kiseru (Japanese tabacco pipe), she fell asleep and the bible caught on fire. One of the other foreigners, already feeling put out that a Japanese woman had been elevated over a foreigner (and was getting a salary of 5 yen while the foreigners were getting 3 yen!), had complained to the founder of the school, so I was one of the foreign teachers standing around looking disapproving and waiting for the founder, a woman named Maria True, to come in and bust her. When she comes in, she prostrates herself on the floor and apologize and Maria True forgives her and says that it’s her fault. (all very Japanese, right?)
Anyway, not that I had to get in character (no lines) but the scene had a bible that had been half burnt and I remember feeling a bit sick on seeing it and I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed. So how will the kindle user who somehow develops the same hunger for books (and it is, isn’t it? I can’t think of a vacation where I didn’t go to a used book store, and I infected my daughter with the fever) feel when they see a book trashed?
…but wake up between each sleep cycle
I have night time pee cycles. Prefer paper books, and find getting rid of them is like throwing over an old friend.
…but wake up between each sleep cycle
I have night time pee cycles. Prefer paper books, and find getting rid of them is like throwing over an old friend.
and find getting rid of them is like throwing over an old friend.
i found that it’s only the first armful that’s tough. after that, they are as discardable as any other used paper product.
and find getting rid of them is like throwing over an old friend.
i found that it’s only the first armful that’s tough. after that, they are as discardable as any other used paper product.
Is anyone talking about throwing away books? Even if my three tubs of book donations don’t make it to the circulating shelves, my public library will sell them in their store and those proceeds will support reading programs. I got a kick out of seeing an entire shelf of the King’s The Dark Tower series and Asimov’s Foundation books, and Le Guin’s Earthsea books and various Diskworld books that some young geek may stumble on.
Is anyone talking about throwing away books? Even if my three tubs of book donations don’t make it to the circulating shelves, my public library will sell them in their store and those proceeds will support reading programs. I got a kick out of seeing an entire shelf of the King’s The Dark Tower series and Asimov’s Foundation books, and Le Guin’s Earthsea books and various Diskworld books that some young geek may stumble on.
throw them away? yes.
my library won’t take them, and used bookstores around here are full. recycling the paperbacks is the best i can do. can’t recycle the hardcover.
we have boxes of hardcovers in our attic that i haven’t yet had the time to haul away. i’ve been kindof hoping to find a way to reuse them for something.
throw them away? yes.
my library won’t take them, and used bookstores around here are full. recycling the paperbacks is the best i can do. can’t recycle the hardcover.
we have boxes of hardcovers in our attic that i haven’t yet had the time to haul away. i’ve been kindof hoping to find a way to reuse them for something.
Seriously? It’s pretty common down here and I can’t believe it is rare. Have you tried googling for the nearest public library that runs a second hand book store?
This has been an odd week at ObWi for me. I live at ground zero for the Florida Man meme and apparently we’re ahead of the game on both plastic film (bags/packing) use and recycling as well as repurposing of old books.
I feel off.
I think that I need to throw a baby alligator through a Taco Bell drive up window to get my chakras back in alignment.
Seriously? It’s pretty common down here and I can’t believe it is rare. Have you tried googling for the nearest public library that runs a second hand book store?
This has been an odd week at ObWi for me. I live at ground zero for the Florida Man meme and apparently we’re ahead of the game on both plastic film (bags/packing) use and recycling as well as repurposing of old books.
I feel off.
I think that I need to throw a baby alligator through a Taco Bell drive up window to get my chakras back in alignment.
Same here with the strong aversion to throw away books, even those that I do not like. Ironically, I would have least/less problems with a Bible (if it’s a run of the mill edition at least). We own so many of those and most people either already have and/or don’t need one, that there’d be no genuine (feeling of) loss.
Well, should the need arise to get rid of a larger amount of books, I know where to donate them. But it’s more likely that soemone else will have to take care of that after I am dead.
Same here with the strong aversion to throw away books, even those that I do not like. Ironically, I would have least/less problems with a Bible (if it’s a run of the mill edition at least). We own so many of those and most people either already have and/or don’t need one, that there’d be no genuine (feeling of) loss.
Well, should the need arise to get rid of a larger amount of books, I know where to donate them. But it’s more likely that soemone else will have to take care of that after I am dead.
Have you tried googling for the nearest public library that runs a second hand book store?
we went to the used bookstores that we knew about, and the libraries that were close by (as well as taking some technical stuff to the store near NC State).
we got the message that most of our books were unwanted trash, so we treated them as such. what we have left are things we thought we might someday re-read (it’s been almost ten years, haven’t yet!) and hardcovers that nobody wants.
maybe this area has a shortage of people who buy used books?
in any case, i’ve spent all the energy i need to spend on them.
Have you tried googling for the nearest public library that runs a second hand book store?
we went to the used bookstores that we knew about, and the libraries that were close by (as well as taking some technical stuff to the store near NC State).
we got the message that most of our books were unwanted trash, so we treated them as such. what we have left are things we thought we might someday re-read (it’s been almost ten years, haven’t yet!) and hardcovers that nobody wants.
maybe this area has a shortage of people who buy used books?
in any case, i’ve spent all the energy i need to spend on them.
The last time I parted with a bunch of books, I took them to Half Price Books. At the time they would give you at least a buck for titles they already had a bunch of copies of.
The last time I parted with a bunch of books, I took them to Half Price Books. At the time they would give you at least a buck for titles they already had a bunch of copies of.
Many long years ago, one option was to send a big load of used books to Peace Corps volunteers in a distant foreign land, using “international book rate” (cheap!).
They probably have small mountains of books at this point, but I doubt that they cause as much problem as plastic bags.
Now, sending a bunch of remaindered “Art Of the Deal” to (non-Anglophone) Africa to be used for toilet paper, and making sure Trump knows about it? Could be a gofundme opportunity.
Many long years ago, one option was to send a big load of used books to Peace Corps volunteers in a distant foreign land, using “international book rate” (cheap!).
They probably have small mountains of books at this point, but I doubt that they cause as much problem as plastic bags.
Now, sending a bunch of remaindered “Art Of the Deal” to (non-Anglophone) Africa to be used for toilet paper, and making sure Trump knows about it? Could be a gofundme opportunity.
Now, sending a bunch of remaindered “Art Of the Deal” to (non-Anglophone) Africa to be used for toilet paper,
That’s been done before with a different book.
Now, sending a bunch of remaindered “Art Of the Deal” to (non-Anglophone) Africa to be used for toilet paper,
That’s been done before with a different book.
I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed.
But interestingly, I don’t have the same reaction when it comes time to delete an electronic copy of a book.
I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed.
But interestingly, I don’t have the same reaction when it comes time to delete an electronic copy of a book.
I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed.
after boxing and moving them a few times, and watching my wife grind her teeth for decades at having to take “big immovable bookcases full of books literally nobody is ever going to read” into account when arranging the furniture … sacrifices must be made.
i kept my CDs. though i never use them (all have been digitized) and rarely buy physical media anymore. but i threw away all their hard plastic jewel cases and put the discs and inserts into clear PVC sleeves. two giant shelving units full of CDs now live in a single very heavy) cardboard box in the guest room closet.
I think that any book lover is going to feel nauseous when they see books damaged, trashed or destroyed.
after boxing and moving them a few times, and watching my wife grind her teeth for decades at having to take “big immovable bookcases full of books literally nobody is ever going to read” into account when arranging the furniture … sacrifices must be made.
i kept my CDs. though i never use them (all have been digitized) and rarely buy physical media anymore. but i threw away all their hard plastic jewel cases and put the discs and inserts into clear PVC sleeves. two giant shelving units full of CDs now live in a single very heavy) cardboard box in the guest room closet.
When I was a kid my father succumbed to a door to door book salesman and spent money he could ill afford to buy a Book of Knowledge set, Lands and Peoples, and a set of encyclopedias. So, any time he perceived my siblings and me to be mishandling the books, we heard about it at length. So, I have some aversion to mistreating books or throwing them away.
When I was a kid my father succumbed to a door to door book salesman and spent money he could ill afford to buy a Book of Knowledge set, Lands and Peoples, and a set of encyclopedias. So, any time he perceived my siblings and me to be mishandling the books, we heard about it at length. So, I have some aversion to mistreating books or throwing them away.
speaking of throwing things away:
speaking of throwing things away:
I kept my CDs.
Hah, I kept my LPs 🙂
I kept my CDs.
Hah, I kept my LPs 🙂
i had already thrown all my vinyl into the lake (when i was 16). CDs replaced it all.
i had already thrown all my vinyl into the lake (when i was 16). CDs replaced it all.
Hah, I kept my LPs 🙂
Good to know I’m not alone there.
Hah, I kept my LPs 🙂
Good to know I’m not alone there.
We still have lots those too. The problem are the record players getting old and not working properly anymore. Of course one can buy new ones (even with USB ports) but it does not seem worth the effort at the moment.
We still have lots those too. The problem are the record players getting old and not working properly anymore. Of course one can buy new ones (even with USB ports) but it does not seem worth the effort at the moment.
A voter ID law bites the dust.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/north-carolina-voter-id-law/2021/09/17/3c2a7892-17e3-11ec-a5e5-ceecb895922f_story.html
It occurs to me to wonder. How much is it to demand a voter have an ID if you think “All blacks look alike”? Even a bad fake ID would be plenty; no need for a quality photo.
A voter ID law bites the dust.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/north-carolina-voter-id-law/2021/09/17/3c2a7892-17e3-11ec-a5e5-ceecb895922f_story.html
It occurs to me to wonder. How much is it to demand a voter have an ID if you think “All blacks look alike”? Even a bad fake ID would be plenty; no need for a quality photo.
Just to get everybody’s adrenaline flowing, let me write in praise of Larry Elder. Yes, seriously.
Mind, Elder’s positions on the issues are appalling. But if more major Republican politicians were like him, the party and the nation would be better off.
Consider. Tuesday at 10 PM, when it was obvious how the votes were going, Elder conceded. Not only conceded, but called on his supporters to “be gracious in defeat.” No claims of fraud. No calls to overturn the results. That makes him better than Trump. Admittedly “better than Trump” is a very low bar, but it’s one which most high profile Republicans seem unable to clear. So, good on him.
Just to get everybody’s adrenaline flowing, let me write in praise of Larry Elder. Yes, seriously.
Mind, Elder’s positions on the issues are appalling. But if more major Republican politicians were like him, the party and the nation would be better off.
Consider. Tuesday at 10 PM, when it was obvious how the votes were going, Elder conceded. Not only conceded, but called on his supporters to “be gracious in defeat.” No claims of fraud. No calls to overturn the results. That makes him better than Trump. Admittedly “better than Trump” is a very low bar, but it’s one which most high profile Republicans seem unable to clear. So, good on him.
Not bad for being the Black face of white supremacy…
Not bad for being the Black face of white supremacy…
Something about burying Elder, not praising him
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037249065/larry-elder-newsoms-main-opponent-stoked-fears-of-election-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/15/trump-elder-california-recall-fraud-newsom/
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/politics/political-experts-larry-elder-early-claims-election-fraud/103-a15c6588-6039-4d2f-9952-687f4bc76020
Something about burying Elder, not praising him
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037249065/larry-elder-newsoms-main-opponent-stoked-fears-of-election-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/15/trump-elder-california-recall-fraud-newsom/
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/politics/political-experts-larry-elder-early-claims-election-fraud/103-a15c6588-6039-4d2f-9952-687f4bc76020
Interesting, the link doesn’t seem to work. I had a last link from the SacBee about how the claims of voter fraud depressed turnout among republicans. Ha ha, ha ha…
Interesting, the link doesn’t seem to work. I had a last link from the SacBee about how the claims of voter fraud depressed turnout among republicans. Ha ha, ha ha…
All the links are working for me.
All the links are working for me.
Elder did show signs that he might go the voter fraud route.
What I appreciate is that, in the event, he didn’t. Trump, of course, would have. On the evidence, a fair number, most even, of potential GOP candidates in 2024 can reasonably be expected to do so (assuming they don’t win both Electoral votes and the popular vote). And probably most of the Congressional elections that they lose in 2022 win see fraud allegations, too.
That puts Elder one up on the lot of them. Admittedly a low bar.
Elder did show signs that he might go the voter fraud route.
What I appreciate is that, in the event, he didn’t. Trump, of course, would have. On the evidence, a fair number, most even, of potential GOP candidates in 2024 can reasonably be expected to do so (assuming they don’t win both Electoral votes and the popular vote). And probably most of the Congressional elections that they lose in 2022 win see fraud allegations, too.
That puts Elder one up on the lot of them. Admittedly a low bar.
The last one which I had to take out cause it left a blank comment. Basically, it said the elder depressed the Republican voter turn out by raising the issue of fraud. Lol
The last one which I had to take out cause it left a blank comment. Basically, it said the elder depressed the Republican voter turn out by raising the issue of fraud. Lol
After all the redistricting is done, we’ll see if they need to make any allegations of voter fraud. It’s pretty clear after the last one that they will feel no shame for destroying election integrity so long as it gets them wins.
After all the redistricting is done, we’ll see if they need to make any allegations of voter fraud. It’s pretty clear after the last one that they will feel no shame for destroying election integrity so long as it gets them wins.
The joy of lowered expectations.
The joy of lowered expectations.
They are looking for Arizona style ‘audits’ even where Jabbabonk won by double digits. Even the Abbott of the Monstery that is Texas is talking about one, probably because he is under threat of a primary for not being RW enough.
They are looking for Arizona style ‘audits’ even where Jabbabonk won by double digits. Even the Abbott of the Monstery that is Texas is talking about one, probably because he is under threat of a primary for not being RW enough.
An important, and thus far not much discussed aspect of the Australian nuclear subs deal.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/
An important, and thus far not much discussed aspect of the Australian nuclear subs deal.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/
The article points out that Australia currently has no nuclear power plants (bar one research reactor). And no other nuclear infrastructure either. Which means, at best, very long building and learning curves.
So it may well be that this is more a diplomatic gesture pointed at China than a pure military one. (And China clearly has gotten the point.) It will impact US alliances in Asia, and warn China off too vigorous military adventures, for years. Even if the actual submarines never appear.
The article points out that Australia currently has no nuclear power plants (bar one research reactor). And no other nuclear infrastructure either. Which means, at best, very long building and learning curves.
So it may well be that this is more a diplomatic gesture pointed at China than a pure military one. (And China clearly has gotten the point.) It will impact US alliances in Asia, and warn China off too vigorous military adventures, for years. Even if the actual submarines never appear.
So, will Japan be the next customer?
My daily newspaper has something on the deal that just tells me that the writer is not really knowledgeable about subs since he falls into the trap of reading ‘conventional’ as ‘obsolete’ and ‘nuclear’ as modern and advanced.
My guess is that Australia has more use for the latter due to greater reach and endurance (their current ones are more suitable for inshore missions I’d say*), if they want to expand the area of operation (to put pressure on China). But the French also had nuclear subs (or upgrades) on offer, so that could not be the reason to switch to USian subs. I read that there were some less than friendly disputes with France about the deal they were already closing with Australia and that may be a reason.
But I would not exclude the possibility that the US administration ‘needed’ work for Electric Boat who could otherwise be in danger (I am not aware that the US are ordering at the moment and Electric Boat is iirc the only company building nuclear subs in the US).
Plus Australia seems to have some habit to switch sub deals at the last moment. Germany also once thought that they had a deal but it went to Sweden instead (we were not too angry though since Sweden and Germany always try to one-up each other on sub contracts**).
I also do not know about compatibility of French weapon systems with those of other NATO states, i.e. whether French subs can launch e.g. Tomahawk missiles.
* in coastal areas or other ‘narrow’ regions I’d always bet on a modern ‘conventional’ sub over a nuclear one. They tend to be superior, if it’s a true hide and seek situation.
**contracts for submarines, not subsontracting
So, will Japan be the next customer?
My daily newspaper has something on the deal that just tells me that the writer is not really knowledgeable about subs since he falls into the trap of reading ‘conventional’ as ‘obsolete’ and ‘nuclear’ as modern and advanced.
My guess is that Australia has more use for the latter due to greater reach and endurance (their current ones are more suitable for inshore missions I’d say*), if they want to expand the area of operation (to put pressure on China). But the French also had nuclear subs (or upgrades) on offer, so that could not be the reason to switch to USian subs. I read that there were some less than friendly disputes with France about the deal they were already closing with Australia and that may be a reason.
But I would not exclude the possibility that the US administration ‘needed’ work for Electric Boat who could otherwise be in danger (I am not aware that the US are ordering at the moment and Electric Boat is iirc the only company building nuclear subs in the US).
Plus Australia seems to have some habit to switch sub deals at the last moment. Germany also once thought that they had a deal but it went to Sweden instead (we were not too angry though since Sweden and Germany always try to one-up each other on sub contracts**).
I also do not know about compatibility of French weapon systems with those of other NATO states, i.e. whether French subs can launch e.g. Tomahawk missiles.
* in coastal areas or other ‘narrow’ regions I’d always bet on a modern ‘conventional’ sub over a nuclear one. They tend to be superior, if it’s a true hide and seek situation.
**contracts for submarines, not subsontracting
My guess is that Australia looked at the development, production, and training timelines for the deal with France and decided that it needed more capabilities sooner. The US was willing to lease them some subs and let them train with the US in the subs.
Also, there’s the matter of basing…
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/16/u-s-seeking-basing-in-australia-after-submarine-deal/
So Australia gets some subs in the near term to speed their capabilities and the US gets a staging area from which to respond to Chinese escalation.
And if the US gets basing in Australia, I wonder if the US could also take on the storage and maintenance issues for the fuel? That might streamline the regulatory issues.
My guess is that Australia looked at the development, production, and training timelines for the deal with France and decided that it needed more capabilities sooner. The US was willing to lease them some subs and let them train with the US in the subs.
Also, there’s the matter of basing…
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/16/u-s-seeking-basing-in-australia-after-submarine-deal/
So Australia gets some subs in the near term to speed their capabilities and the US gets a staging area from which to respond to Chinese escalation.
And if the US gets basing in Australia, I wonder if the US could also take on the storage and maintenance issues for the fuel? That might streamline the regulatory issues.
And on the original topic, if anyone wants any new book releases for the fall in hard copy, y’all should preorder right now. My wife’s publisher is telling her that publishers are facing shortages and it will take a while before the publishing lists get caught up. So it’s preorders for things you have to have in hardcopy and e-books for everything else for the near future.
The wife has one title that just came out in paperback and another new release in hardcover coming out next month. At least she has enough of a publishing history to get some books placed. Debut authors are finding it harder because there is no way to predict how their books will sell, so the publishers are leaning on the low-risk releases to carry them through.
And on the original topic, if anyone wants any new book releases for the fall in hard copy, y’all should preorder right now. My wife’s publisher is telling her that publishers are facing shortages and it will take a while before the publishing lists get caught up. So it’s preorders for things you have to have in hardcopy and e-books for everything else for the near future.
The wife has one title that just came out in paperback and another new release in hardcover coming out next month. At least she has enough of a publishing history to get some books placed. Debut authors are finding it harder because there is no way to predict how their books will sell, so the publishers are leaning on the low-risk releases to carry them through.
So, will Japan be the next customer?
If Abe has his way. But we will have to see who the next PM is
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210917/p2g/00m/0na/044000c
(slightly dated, Ishiba has withdrawn and Noda, another female, has stepped up)
Noda was a latecomer and my take is that she was pushed forward on the principle that she could siphon off votes from Kono, who is a bit heterodox for the conservative establishment. That would mean that Kishida (a man) or Takaichi (a woman) would then get the nod. If Kishida were chosen, there would be some anger, as he’s the least likely candidate. Abe is supporting Takaichi but she is really a piece of work, an avid Nippon Kaigi supporter, as right-wing as they come. I assume Abe supported her (which was a surprise as I think that the faction he is a part of supports Kono) because his program of womenconomics, which had a great deal of law changes but very little actual progress would be somehow justified if he were succeeded by a woman.
https://theconversation.com/japan-what-are-the-chances-of-a-woman-becoming-prime-minister-in-a-deeply-patriarchal-society-167643
So, will Japan be the next customer?
If Abe has his way. But we will have to see who the next PM is
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210917/p2g/00m/0na/044000c
(slightly dated, Ishiba has withdrawn and Noda, another female, has stepped up)
Noda was a latecomer and my take is that she was pushed forward on the principle that she could siphon off votes from Kono, who is a bit heterodox for the conservative establishment. That would mean that Kishida (a man) or Takaichi (a woman) would then get the nod. If Kishida were chosen, there would be some anger, as he’s the least likely candidate. Abe is supporting Takaichi but she is really a piece of work, an avid Nippon Kaigi supporter, as right-wing as they come. I assume Abe supported her (which was a surprise as I think that the faction he is a part of supports Kono) because his program of womenconomics, which had a great deal of law changes but very little actual progress would be somehow justified if he were succeeded by a woman.
https://theconversation.com/japan-what-are-the-chances-of-a-woman-becoming-prime-minister-in-a-deeply-patriarchal-society-167643
And I always find these things after writing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3xob2n_QUs
A debate with translations of the 4 candidates
And I always find these things after writing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3xob2n_QUs
A debate with translations of the 4 candidates
But the French also had nuclear subs (or upgrades) on offer, so that could not be the reason to switch to USian subs.
The French may have those on offer. But the deal with France, which got cancelled with the signing of the US deal for nukes, was for 12 diesel subs.
But the French also had nuclear subs (or upgrades) on offer, so that could not be the reason to switch to USian subs.
The French may have those on offer. But the deal with France, which got cancelled with the signing of the US deal for nukes, was for 12 diesel subs.
But according to what I read there was a clause in the contract that they could switch to nuclear should the need arise. Those were subs designed for a nuclear power plant originally, so the Diesel engines were a swap in the first place and could be replaced with the nuclear power plant anytime. Not a cheap refit, I presume, but an anticipated one.
Hm, maybe coal fired engines would have been a better fit for Australia. 😉
But according to what I read there was a clause in the contract that they could switch to nuclear should the need arise. Those were subs designed for a nuclear power plant originally, so the Diesel engines were a swap in the first place and could be replaced with the nuclear power plant anytime. Not a cheap refit, I presume, but an anticipated one.
Hm, maybe coal fired engines would have been a better fit for Australia. 😉
The French boats were way over-budget, and they had reneged on a large part of the commitment for most of the construction work to be done in Australian yards – a political consideration which underlay the selection of the French design in the first place.
The chances of building nuclear versions in Australia would be close to nil, I think.
The previous administration was leaning towards the purchase of Japanese submarines (an extended range version of the proven Soryu class).
In terms of getting delivery of a usable weapons system which meets their requirements, this would still probably be their most sensible option in terms of cost/capability/delivery.
I have yet to see any real discussion of the practicalities of Australia operating a fleet of nuclear attack submarines (or indeed what it might cost).
Admittedly they would have a very large advantage over conventional boats in terms of sustained speed and range, which in the Australian context matter a great deal, but it could end up as big a mess as the French deal.
The French boats were way over-budget, and they had reneged on a large part of the commitment for most of the construction work to be done in Australian yards – a political consideration which underlay the selection of the French design in the first place.
The chances of building nuclear versions in Australia would be close to nil, I think.
The previous administration was leaning towards the purchase of Japanese submarines (an extended range version of the proven Soryu class).
In terms of getting delivery of a usable weapons system which meets their requirements, this would still probably be their most sensible option in terms of cost/capability/delivery.
I have yet to see any real discussion of the practicalities of Australia operating a fleet of nuclear attack submarines (or indeed what it might cost).
Admittedly they would have a very large advantage over conventional boats in terms of sustained speed and range, which in the Australian context matter a great deal, but it could end up as big a mess as the French deal.
So, will Japan be the next customer ?
Seems unlikely.
They already have a large and very capable conventional fleet. They have no real requirement for nukes.
Though there’s some talk of the US paying them to not to scrap existing subs as they bring in new models, in order to grow the fleet even larger, as a means of covering the US capability gap as it retires older nukes before their replacements can be built.
This actually might matter quite a lot (beyond the usual military oneupmanship) as it might just deter an invasion of Taiwan in that time.
So, will Japan be the next customer ?
Seems unlikely.
They already have a large and very capable conventional fleet. They have no real requirement for nukes.
Though there’s some talk of the US paying them to not to scrap existing subs as they bring in new models, in order to grow the fleet even larger, as a means of covering the US capability gap as it retires older nukes before their replacements can be built.
This actually might matter quite a lot (beyond the usual military oneupmanship) as it might just deter an invasion of Taiwan in that time.
The nuts and bolts angle is overlaid with the confront China aspect of this.
https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/why-china-has-beaten-up-australia-harder-than-anyone-else-20201216-p56nud
How it also plugs into NATO is also pretty fascinating.
The nuts and bolts angle is overlaid with the confront China aspect of this.
https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/why-china-has-beaten-up-australia-harder-than-anyone-else-20201216-p56nud
How it also plugs into NATO is also pretty fascinating.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
Of course nobody has any illusions regarding the self-interested nature of US foreign policy, but there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies – so far he hasn’t shown much interest in doing that.
Equally concerning is the sabre rattling with China – I don’t even want to think about the endgame here.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
Of course nobody has any illusions regarding the self-interested nature of US foreign policy, but there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies – so far he hasn’t shown much interest in doing that.
Equally concerning is the sabre rattling with China – I don’t even want to think about the endgame here.
I should have called it “perceived self-interest” really.
I should have called it “perceived self-interest” really.
Of course nobody has any illusions regarding the self-interested nature of US foreign policy
which countries don’t have self-interested foreign policy?
Of course nobody has any illusions regarding the self-interested nature of US foreign policy
which countries don’t have self-interested foreign policy?
Puppet states I presume.
Puppet states I presume.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
Not sure how you get to there. At most, he’s telling them that they aren’t the only ones who matter. (Although surely that was obvious long since. As in decades ago.) Which is hardly the same thing.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
Not sure how you get to there. At most, he’s telling them that they aren’t the only ones who matter. (Although surely that was obvious long since. As in decades ago.) Which is hardly the same thing.
there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies – so far he hasn’t shown much interest in doing that.
Amazing how all of them seem to see it otherwise. The French are irritated at the moment. But that’s newsworthy precisely because it is once again exceptional.
there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies – so far he hasn’t shown much interest in doing that.
Amazing how all of them seem to see it otherwise. The French are irritated at the moment. But that’s newsworthy precisely because it is once again exceptional.
The writer of the e-book article lost me in the first paragraph, when he complained about wonky typography in e-books. My experience — perhaps unique to me — is one of the strengths of e-books is the ability to use a reader that lets you control the font, spacing, etc. When the hardcopy typography is bad, there’s nothing you can do.
Of course, I’m the same person who runs a browser script against almost every web page I load to force the font, sizes, and spacing to match my preferences. My wife occasionally comments, when looking over my shoulder, that my view of the web is quite different than what she sees.
The writer of the e-book article lost me in the first paragraph, when he complained about wonky typography in e-books. My experience — perhaps unique to me — is one of the strengths of e-books is the ability to use a reader that lets you control the font, spacing, etc. When the hardcopy typography is bad, there’s nothing you can do.
Of course, I’m the same person who runs a browser script against almost every web page I load to force the font, sizes, and spacing to match my preferences. My wife occasionally comments, when looking over my shoulder, that my view of the web is quite different than what she sees.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
I interpreted it as a message that the US won’t be fighting any land wars in Europe. Perhaps not in Asia, either. If I were highly ranked in the Army, I’d be nervous that it’s a signal the US is going to be a naval and air power first and foremost.
Basically Biden is telling the EU they don’t matter, as he has done already during the withdrawal Afghanistan.
I interpreted it as a message that the US won’t be fighting any land wars in Europe. Perhaps not in Asia, either. If I were highly ranked in the Army, I’d be nervous that it’s a signal the US is going to be a naval and air power first and foremost.
If I were highly ranked in the Army, I’d be nervous that it’s a signal the US is going to be a naval and air power first and foremost
I would say that, once the US finished conquering the continent, it has always been primarily a naval power. Simply because most of our borders are nautical ones.
If I were highly ranked in the Army, I’d be nervous that it’s a signal the US is going to be a naval and air power first and foremost
I would say that, once the US finished conquering the continent, it has always been primarily a naval power. Simply because most of our borders are nautical ones.
Meanwhile Biden continues with his irrational ban on travel to the US from Europe.
I don’t object to travel bans from countries with high Covid incidence (currently including the UK). But it’s absurd to have a travel ban which doesn’t apply to US citizens, and which includes low-incidence countries such as Poland while excluding countries with even higher incidence than the US, such as Israel and various Caribbean islands.
It’s just Covid-security theatre.
Meanwhile Biden continues with his irrational ban on travel to the US from Europe.
I don’t object to travel bans from countries with high Covid incidence (currently including the UK). But it’s absurd to have a travel ban which doesn’t apply to US citizens, and which includes low-incidence countries such as Poland while excluding countries with even higher incidence than the US, such as Israel and various Caribbean islands.
It’s just Covid-security theatre.
there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies
I feel that if Biden (or had Blinken or whoever) had done the rounds, there would not have been a withdrawal because the bureaucracy (aka the Blob) would have slow walked it. France and Germany, together with the US, Russia and China, are the 5 largest arms exporters
However, it may also be true that Biden is looking at a total reset of those relationships. I looked up the US liaison to NATO
https://www.act.nato.int/organization/national-liaison-representatives
And Col Julie Galin is listed, but when I looked her up
https://www.yokota.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/2693194/colonel-julie-m-gaulin/
Colonel Gaulin is Vice Commander, 374th Airlift Wing, Yokota Air Base Japan. She assists the Wing Commander in the management, training, command and control of the Department of Defense’s only airlift wing in the Pacific theater. As the Western Pacific Airlift hub, Yokota Air Base provides mission-ready forces and base operating support to guarantee U.S. forward presence and crisis response.
Kind of surprised that the liaison to NATO would be a wing commander in Japan.
there was a hope that Biden would at least get back to the normal diplomatic standards among allies
I feel that if Biden (or had Blinken or whoever) had done the rounds, there would not have been a withdrawal because the bureaucracy (aka the Blob) would have slow walked it. France and Germany, together with the US, Russia and China, are the 5 largest arms exporters
However, it may also be true that Biden is looking at a total reset of those relationships. I looked up the US liaison to NATO
https://www.act.nato.int/organization/national-liaison-representatives
And Col Julie Galin is listed, but when I looked her up
https://www.yokota.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/2693194/colonel-julie-m-gaulin/
Colonel Gaulin is Vice Commander, 374th Airlift Wing, Yokota Air Base Japan. She assists the Wing Commander in the management, training, command and control of the Department of Defense’s only airlift wing in the Pacific theater. As the Western Pacific Airlift hub, Yokota Air Base provides mission-ready forces and base operating support to guarantee U.S. forward presence and crisis response.
Kind of surprised that the liaison to NATO would be a wing commander in Japan.
Amazing how all of them seem to see it otherwise.
I don’t know how you could come to this conclusion – the view from Europe is certainly a different one.
Amazing how all of them seem to see it otherwise.
I don’t know how you could come to this conclusion – the view from Europe is certainly a different one.
lj, I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
lj, I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
Sure, that’s possible, so you have to sift thru the evidence. For me, Biden’s previous opinions under Obama
https://www.vox.com/2021/8/18/22629135/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-reasons
carry a lot of weight. I also strongly believe that, given the gnashing of teeth that has accompanied this, it had to be done the way it was done, though that can also be seen as my own foreign policy preferences talking.
Sure, that’s possible, so you have to sift thru the evidence. For me, Biden’s previous opinions under Obama
https://www.vox.com/2021/8/18/22629135/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-reasons
carry a lot of weight. I also strongly believe that, given the gnashing of teeth that has accompanied this, it had to be done the way it was done, though that can also be seen as my own foreign policy preferences talking.
lj, I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
Which lines up with Biden’s border policy, assuming “policy” is a reasonable description of what is administration is doing.
lj, I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
Which lines up with Biden’s border policy, assuming “policy” is a reasonable description of what is administration is doing.
I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
for another example of this, take a look at how the press rushes as fast as it can to come up with “The [New President] Doctrine”.
I get the feeling sometimes that we are looking for a grand rationale behind Biden’s foreign policy, while it might have actually been a sort of clumsy impulsiveness behind the scenes
for another example of this, take a look at how the press rushes as fast as it can to come up with “The [New President] Doctrine”.
Which lines up with Biden’s border policy,
look out, there’s a Nicaraguan in your hedgerow!
Which lines up with Biden’s border policy,
look out, there’s a Nicaraguan in your hedgerow!
Cleek, how many people are living at or under the international bridge in Del Rio TX?
Cleek, how many people are living at or under the international bridge in Del Rio TX?
4, they’re all named Greg. it gets very confusing at times.
but do be careful about that Nicaraguan. they’ve been know to steal your job in the middle of the night.
4, they’re all named Greg. it gets very confusing at times.
but do be careful about that Nicaraguan. they’ve been know to steal your job in the middle of the night.
It’s north of 10,000. Think that’s good border policy?
It’s north of 10,000. Think that’s good border policy?
whose “policy” is it that Greg, Greg, Greg and Greg should try to cross at Del Rio TX, and be forced to stay there until they’re all processed?
nobody’s?
but you’ll blame Biden anyway.
whose “policy” is it that Greg, Greg, Greg and Greg should try to cross at Del Rio TX, and be forced to stay there until they’re all processed?
nobody’s?
but you’ll blame Biden anyway.
Just got around to listening to 538’s podcast on California’s recall election. One line stuck out to me:
“California is a very blue state. But it is not a particularly progressive state.”
That is my take as well. (Perhaps nous has a different view.) It isn’t that California has gotten more liberal than it was during my first half century. (When, if you were governor, either your name was Edmund G. Brown or you were a Republican.) Rather, it’s that the California GOP went off the deep end and embraced the far right. Making the state a gift to the Democrats.
Now, of course, the very brand is toxic for much of the state. But making the, admittedly heroic, assumption that a candidate could get past that, I suspect that a moderate conservative could win here again.
Just got around to listening to 538’s podcast on California’s recall election. One line stuck out to me:
“California is a very blue state. But it is not a particularly progressive state.”
That is my take as well. (Perhaps nous has a different view.) It isn’t that California has gotten more liberal than it was during my first half century. (When, if you were governor, either your name was Edmund G. Brown or you were a Republican.) Rather, it’s that the California GOP went off the deep end and embraced the far right. Making the state a gift to the Democrats.
Now, of course, the very brand is toxic for much of the state. But making the, admittedly heroic, assumption that a candidate could get past that, I suspect that a moderate conservative could win here again.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/gallery/migrants-texas-bridge-us-border/index.html
https://cepr.net/biden-continues-trumps-policy-in-haiti-despite-bipartisan-congressional-pushback/
Trump called their country a shithole.
They agreed with him.
Naturalize all of them as American citizens so they can (great re-) replace (ment theory) genocidal republican pandemic-lovers and voting franchise thieves like Governor Abbot and company.
My preferred voting restriction laws would apply to all Americans named Marty. There may be a few innocent Martys left, but apparently laws that apply to all Martys, regardless of innocence, are kosher nothing-to-see-here yawns.
The world is coming apart. America is done.
Biden will be blamed no matter his policies or lack thereof, and gleefully so by the fascist, murderous, global warming, put me on that ventilator or else fanboys of the American conservative movement, and Vlad Putin and the CCP, all conservatives.
Forget the right wing fascist press. The beltway press is salivating over this Administration’s total failure.
Ruthless rule by the fascist American conservative movement, a mass psychotic suicide cult, will be, as in 1932 Germany, the only remaining viable option for these killers.
It’s fucking over. Kiss your asses goodbye.
Tax me even one cent, Republicans.
I fucking dare you.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/gallery/migrants-texas-bridge-us-border/index.html
https://cepr.net/biden-continues-trumps-policy-in-haiti-despite-bipartisan-congressional-pushback/
Trump called their country a shithole.
They agreed with him.
Naturalize all of them as American citizens so they can (great re-) replace (ment theory) genocidal republican pandemic-lovers and voting franchise thieves like Governor Abbot and company.
My preferred voting restriction laws would apply to all Americans named Marty. There may be a few innocent Martys left, but apparently laws that apply to all Martys, regardless of innocence, are kosher nothing-to-see-here yawns.
The world is coming apart. America is done.
Biden will be blamed no matter his policies or lack thereof, and gleefully so by the fascist, murderous, global warming, put me on that ventilator or else fanboys of the American conservative movement, and Vlad Putin and the CCP, all conservatives.
Forget the right wing fascist press. The beltway press is salivating over this Administration’s total failure.
Ruthless rule by the fascist American conservative movement, a mass psychotic suicide cult, will be, as in 1932 Germany, the only remaining viable option for these killers.
It’s fucking over. Kiss your asses goodbye.
Tax me even one cent, Republicans.
I fucking dare you.
It’s north of 10,000. Think that’s good border policy?
There is a refugee crisis. Refugees will do what they can to get out of a worse situation. Ask Greece.
Options: kettle them in where they are; let them in and put them in big camps; let them in and disperse them into smaller camps; round them up and try to send them back by force.
Every one of those comes with preloaded and pre-written opposition on both the international and partisan domestic front.
And every one of them is made more complex by Delta.
So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this? Not the gripe about how what is being done is problematic, the concrete suggestion for the way it can be made better given the current context.
And mark this as an ongoing issue for policy because the refugee situation is going to happen a lot in the next few decades, both internationally and from one state to another.
This is beta testing for our future.
It’s north of 10,000. Think that’s good border policy?
There is a refugee crisis. Refugees will do what they can to get out of a worse situation. Ask Greece.
Options: kettle them in where they are; let them in and put them in big camps; let them in and disperse them into smaller camps; round them up and try to send them back by force.
Every one of those comes with preloaded and pre-written opposition on both the international and partisan domestic front.
And every one of them is made more complex by Delta.
So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this? Not the gripe about how what is being done is problematic, the concrete suggestion for the way it can be made better given the current context.
And mark this as an ongoing issue for policy because the refugee situation is going to happen a lot in the next few decades, both internationally and from one state to another.
This is beta testing for our future.
“California is a very blue state. But it is not a particularly progressive state.”
That is my take as well. (Perhaps nous has a different view.) It isn’t that California has gotten more liberal than it was during my first half century.
It’s an interesting and difficult mix. It’s very blue and very progressive, but the blue and progressive split along interesting lines because of class and race. The property tax issues and real estate investment turns a lot of limousine liberals and NIBYs into conservative allies on zoning, homelessness, and school issues, and the racism of rural CA turns conservative POC into blue voters.
“California is a very blue state. But it is not a particularly progressive state.”
That is my take as well. (Perhaps nous has a different view.) It isn’t that California has gotten more liberal than it was during my first half century.
It’s an interesting and difficult mix. It’s very blue and very progressive, but the blue and progressive split along interesting lines because of class and race. The property tax issues and real estate investment turns a lot of limousine liberals and NIBYs into conservative allies on zoning, homelessness, and school issues, and the racism of rural CA turns conservative POC into blue voters.
So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this? Not the gripe about how what is being done is problematic, the concrete suggestion for the way it can be made better given the current context.
Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this? Not the gripe about how what is being done is problematic, the concrete suggestion for the way it can be made better given the current context.
Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
Always the answer when there is a hard decision to be made. Then the complaining about the decision starts.
And one of the complaints is always that the other side were not consulted.
But when consulted: “isn’t that the current administrations job?”
What are you hoping to see the administration do as a policy approach?
Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
Always the answer when there is a hard decision to be made. Then the complaining about the decision starts.
And one of the complaints is always that the other side were not consulted.
But when consulted: “isn’t that the current administrations job?”
What are you hoping to see the administration do as a policy approach?
What are you hoping to see the administration do as a policy approach?
You’re coming across as an apologist, answering a question with a question, as if Biden was not elected to deal with precisely these kinds of issues.
I’m not going to play that game and if the Dems get their asses kicked in 2020, it will be because of inaction like what we are seeing now at the border–and have seen since he took office, with record numbers of illegal crossings.
It was a crisis under Trump and everyone here agreed. Now that it’s much worse under Biden, crickets. Don’t think this kind of thing goes unnoticed.
What are you hoping to see the administration do as a policy approach?
You’re coming across as an apologist, answering a question with a question, as if Biden was not elected to deal with precisely these kinds of issues.
I’m not going to play that game and if the Dems get their asses kicked in 2020, it will be because of inaction like what we are seeing now at the border–and have seen since he took office, with record numbers of illegal crossings.
It was a crisis under Trump and everyone here agreed. Now that it’s much worse under Biden, crickets. Don’t think this kind of thing goes unnoticed.
i love the implication that it’s Biden’s fault that people showed up on the Mexican border. he didn’t invite them. they aren’t here to vote Democratic. but they’re there, and … waiting! they’re being processed as fast as funding level will permit. but they’re not being process fast enough? or is it too fast? too much compassion, not enough? should they be shipped to the Canadian border to wait in a more temperate climate?
or is this just another thing for the party of obstruction, sedition and the lash to complain about?
i love the implication that it’s Biden’s fault that people showed up on the Mexican border. he didn’t invite them. they aren’t here to vote Democratic. but they’re there, and … waiting! they’re being processed as fast as funding level will permit. but they’re not being process fast enough? or is it too fast? too much compassion, not enough? should they be shipped to the Canadian border to wait in a more temperate climate?
or is this just another thing for the party of obstruction, sedition and the lash to complain about?
Wait a minute! I remember now–he put Vice President Harris in charge of the border. How’s that going?
Wait a minute! I remember now–he put Vice President Harris in charge of the border. How’s that going?
it’s going fine. the people are being processed as required by law.
if you want them processed faster, tell your local Republican to maybe try governing instead of just posturing for Fox News cameras.
it’s going fine. the people are being processed as required by law.
if you want them processed faster, tell your local Republican to maybe try governing instead of just posturing for Fox News cameras.
I can’t form a strong opinion one way or the other on how well the Biden administration is dealing with the influx of Haitian immigrants. I don’t know enough about it. I do know they came here because Haiti has a great number of problems from which people tend to flee. I guess I could read up on it and go into the specific decisions that the administration has made and attempt to analyse them critically. Or I could just note that bad stuff is happening and conclude whatever feels right.
I can’t form a strong opinion one way or the other on how well the Biden administration is dealing with the influx of Haitian immigrants. I don’t know enough about it. I do know they came here because Haiti has a great number of problems from which people tend to flee. I guess I could read up on it and go into the specific decisions that the administration has made and attempt to analyse them critically. Or I could just note that bad stuff is happening and conclude whatever feels right.
You’re coming across as an apologist, answering a question with a question, as if Biden was not elected to deal with precisely these kinds of issues.
Not an apologist, just a realist. The US is no different from Greece in the situation that it faces. There are refugees coming from other places and Greece has no control over who shows up to try the border. And Mexico is like Turkey.
We have the 1967 international refugee protocol and the 1980 Refugee Act to uphold.
There’s no spigot to go and turn off to keep the refugees where they are.
I’ll mark your suggestion down as “Lead, but not that way.”
You’re coming across as an apologist, answering a question with a question, as if Biden was not elected to deal with precisely these kinds of issues.
Not an apologist, just a realist. The US is no different from Greece in the situation that it faces. There are refugees coming from other places and Greece has no control over who shows up to try the border. And Mexico is like Turkey.
We have the 1967 international refugee protocol and the 1980 Refugee Act to uphold.
There’s no spigot to go and turn off to keep the refugees where they are.
I’ll mark your suggestion down as “Lead, but not that way.”
it’s going fine. the people are being processed as required by law.
if you want them processed faster, tell your local Republican to maybe try governing instead of just posturing for Fox News cameras.
LOL. If there is a 2022 (not 2020, sorry for the typo) ass whipping, it will be this kind of double standard, hand waiving BS that makes it happen. The non-stop whining about Trump’s horrific border policies is well-remembered, and no one here was playing dumb about the cause. Now, it’s a mystery as to why there’s a crisi.
Good luck with this line of crap.
it’s going fine. the people are being processed as required by law.
if you want them processed faster, tell your local Republican to maybe try governing instead of just posturing for Fox News cameras.
LOL. If there is a 2022 (not 2020, sorry for the typo) ass whipping, it will be this kind of double standard, hand waiving BS that makes it happen. The non-stop whining about Trump’s horrific border policies is well-remembered, and no one here was playing dumb about the cause. Now, it’s a mystery as to why there’s a crisi.
Good luck with this line of crap.
“How’s that going?”
Maybe they have the same contempt for her as American conservatives do.
Maybe they like the low taxes in Texas.
Maybe they are anti-abortion and want to start ratting out and exhorting teen rape victims and other women and their friends and doctors like the fucking law now allows them.
Maybe they don’t give a shit about whether white Texans keep moving the ballot box locations on election day.
Maybe they want to help dig more swales in Houston after we pony up another couple hundred billion because Texans would rather wait and see about, if not deny, global climate change while ringing the federal cash register.
Why don’t you Texans brag about these refugees and immigrants wanting to move to Texas, like you brag about Californians and New Yorkers moving in?
Maybe they want to catch the Covid-19 from your Lieutenant Governor and give it up for Jesus and not pay estate taxes after they buy the pandemic farm.
Maybe Trumpanistas flew to Haiti, infiltrated and bankrolled the migrants’ journeys to the border, just as Democrats and liberals, and Soros Jews were accused of doing by Trump and his racist, antisemitic subhuman republican conservative movement, the stinking fucking lying filth.
I hope there is an ass-whipping in 2022, followed by an ass-killing.
“How’s that going?”
Maybe they have the same contempt for her as American conservatives do.
Maybe they like the low taxes in Texas.
Maybe they are anti-abortion and want to start ratting out and exhorting teen rape victims and other women and their friends and doctors like the fucking law now allows them.
Maybe they don’t give a shit about whether white Texans keep moving the ballot box locations on election day.
Maybe they want to help dig more swales in Houston after we pony up another couple hundred billion because Texans would rather wait and see about, if not deny, global climate change while ringing the federal cash register.
Why don’t you Texans brag about these refugees and immigrants wanting to move to Texas, like you brag about Californians and New Yorkers moving in?
Maybe they want to catch the Covid-19 from your Lieutenant Governor and give it up for Jesus and not pay estate taxes after they buy the pandemic farm.
Maybe Trumpanistas flew to Haiti, infiltrated and bankrolled the migrants’ journeys to the border, just as Democrats and liberals, and Soros Jews were accused of doing by Trump and his racist, antisemitic subhuman republican conservative movement, the stinking fucking lying filth.
I hope there is an ass-whipping in 2022, followed by an ass-killing.
The non-stop whining about Trump’s horrific border policies is well-remembered, and no one here was playing dumb about the cause.
Trump’s policy was wanton cruelty within the context of an immigration crisis. He and his band of sociopaths purposely did horrible things to people, while also funneling money to questionable but connected people to build some kind of wall.
The non-stop whining about Trump’s horrific border policies is well-remembered, and no one here was playing dumb about the cause.
Trump’s policy was wanton cruelty within the context of an immigration crisis. He and his band of sociopaths purposely did horrible things to people, while also funneling money to questionable but connected people to build some kind of wall.
Trump’s policy violated both the 1968 and the 1980 standard for how refugees are to be treated.
That’s what I criticized about his policy.
I never bemoaned the fact that all those refugees were showing up at the border.
Of course they were.
For reasons that had nothing to do with Trump or with our refugee policies.
Trump’s policy violated both the 1968 and the 1980 standard for how refugees are to be treated.
That’s what I criticized about his policy.
I never bemoaned the fact that all those refugees were showing up at the border.
Of course they were.
For reasons that had nothing to do with Trump or with our refugee policies.
Now, it’s a mystery as to why there’s a crisi.
no, there’s no mystery. not even a tiny bit of head-scratching. Republicans are yelling “BORDER CRISIS” because you needed a new thing to yell about now that the election is over. luckily there’s always good ol “BORDER CRISIS” – a tune you all know and love.
every 18 months, crisis or not, regardless of who is actually in charge, someone puts “BORDER CRISIS” back on the record player and you all you all get all red in the face about THE BORDER CRISIS! CARAVAN! SANCTUARY CITY! LA RECONQUISTA! MS13! CANTALOUPE CALVES! THEY TOOK OUR JERBS! you all sing along, shake your fists and point your stubby little fingers at the closest Democrat.
well, it’s tedious and doesn’t help anything get done. no policies can be made, nothing can be done. it is, like every other things the GOP yells, just another way to infuriate the rubes and keep them from noticing that the GOP isn’t actually fixing anything.
Now, it’s a mystery as to why there’s a crisi.
no, there’s no mystery. not even a tiny bit of head-scratching. Republicans are yelling “BORDER CRISIS” because you needed a new thing to yell about now that the election is over. luckily there’s always good ol “BORDER CRISIS” – a tune you all know and love.
every 18 months, crisis or not, regardless of who is actually in charge, someone puts “BORDER CRISIS” back on the record player and you all you all get all red in the face about THE BORDER CRISIS! CARAVAN! SANCTUARY CITY! LA RECONQUISTA! MS13! CANTALOUPE CALVES! THEY TOOK OUR JERBS! you all sing along, shake your fists and point your stubby little fingers at the closest Democrat.
well, it’s tedious and doesn’t help anything get done. no policies can be made, nothing can be done. it is, like every other things the GOP yells, just another way to infuriate the rubes and keep them from noticing that the GOP isn’t actually fixing anything.
It was a crisis under Trump and everyone here agreed. Now that it’s much worse under Biden, crickets. Don’t think this kind of thing goes unnoticed.
Things that are the same about Trump vs Biden border policy:
* lots of people are trying to come here
* the number of people trying to come here is overtaxing our ability to handle them
Things that are different:
* we no longer separate children from parents or guardians as a way of dissuading people from coming
* we’re no longer trying to build a wall across the entire southern border of the US
Is it still a mess? Yes.
Is it a mess based on insane fantasies, deliberate cruelty, and clear animosity toward poor brown people? Not so much.
So on the whole, while not a fan of US border policy under either guy (or at all, in recent memory), I prefer Biden’s.
It was a crisis under Trump and everyone here agreed. Now that it’s much worse under Biden, crickets. Don’t think this kind of thing goes unnoticed.
Things that are the same about Trump vs Biden border policy:
* lots of people are trying to come here
* the number of people trying to come here is overtaxing our ability to handle them
Things that are different:
* we no longer separate children from parents or guardians as a way of dissuading people from coming
* we’re no longer trying to build a wall across the entire southern border of the US
Is it still a mess? Yes.
Is it a mess based on insane fantasies, deliberate cruelty, and clear animosity toward poor brown people? Not so much.
So on the whole, while not a fan of US border policy under either guy (or at all, in recent memory), I prefer Biden’s.
Some context around much worse under Biden.
Also, to my list of things that aren’t the same under Biden:
* people in my community aren’t trying to figure out who is going to watch their kids if ICE comes and, literally, grabs them from their homes or places of work
I’m sure that crap is all still going on to some degree, but it seems to have died down somewhat. Maybe that’s just the lame-stream media giving Biden a pass.
In any case, I see that as a point in Biden’s favor, others may not.
Some context around much worse under Biden.
Also, to my list of things that aren’t the same under Biden:
* people in my community aren’t trying to figure out who is going to watch their kids if ICE comes and, literally, grabs them from their homes or places of work
I’m sure that crap is all still going on to some degree, but it seems to have died down somewhat. Maybe that’s just the lame-stream media giving Biden a pass.
In any case, I see that as a point in Biden’s favor, others may not.
One policy point on which a given administration has even the slightest hope of mitigating a refugee crisis before it starts is foreign aid. I don’t think I need to add anything to that for anyone to figure out what I’m getting at.
One policy point on which a given administration has even the slightest hope of mitigating a refugee crisis before it starts is foreign aid. I don’t think I need to add anything to that for anyone to figure out what I’m getting at.
how long till GOP TX becomes GOP CA?
not long?
keep showing people what Republicanism actually is, they’ll figure it out eventually.
how long till GOP TX becomes GOP CA?
not long?
keep showing people what Republicanism actually is, they’ll figure it out eventually.
It is not unreasonable to start a policy discussion, as McKinney did, by saying “I don’t like the current policy” or “the current policy isn’t working.”
But once somebody offers several possible alternatives, as nous did, there’s some obligation to either select the option you prefer, or start on specifics of which bits of each one (and the current policy) you dislike.** Or just walk away with engaging — although that does risk your future criticisms being taken less seriously.
But some indication of features that you think a policy should have are necessary, if the goal is to figure out what would work better.
** If you think that the goals of a good policy, “What is it we’re trying to accomplish?” are in dispute, it’s fine to staet on that discussion first. But again, with some specifics. And perhaps even comnents on the virtues of those goals.
It is not unreasonable to start a policy discussion, as McKinney did, by saying “I don’t like the current policy” or “the current policy isn’t working.”
But once somebody offers several possible alternatives, as nous did, there’s some obligation to either select the option you prefer, or start on specifics of which bits of each one (and the current policy) you dislike.** Or just walk away with engaging — although that does risk your future criticisms being taken less seriously.
But some indication of features that you think a policy should have are necessary, if the goal is to figure out what would work better.
** If you think that the goals of a good policy, “What is it we’re trying to accomplish?” are in dispute, it’s fine to staet on that discussion first. But again, with some specifics. And perhaps even comnents on the virtues of those goals.
nous asked McTX: So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this?
McTX replied: Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
So, guess who wrote the following:
Or check back up the thread. I’ll wait.
–TP
nous asked McTX: So what is the policy suggestion for how to handle this?
McTX replied: Shouldn’t the answer to this question come from the current administration?
So, guess who wrote the following:
Or check back up the thread. I’ll wait.
–TP
Bibliophilia was mentioned.
I sublet my apartment from my collection of books and make room for myself as they allow.
The arrive in bundles weekly, like refugees, some from abroad, and squat among or squeeze in between the native books, with equanimity.
Some dozen or so of them, my well-used, frequently reread and now physically disintegrating-to-dust favorites …. Madame Bovary, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, Ulysses, The Moviegoer, Love In The Ruins, Flannery O’Connor’s stories, Moby Dick, The Adventures of Augie March, Robert Frost poems, etc .. it’s hard to narrow this list down .. … huddle together on their own shelf for support, like my now 32-year old son’s two favorite threadbare childhood teddy bears do on his dresser at his Mom’s house.
I’ve replaced most of them with newer copies, but will never get rid of them.
In other news, mostly for Donald from the other thread about our foreign war policy … several conjoined reviews of recent books which join my non-fiction shelves as soon as I return from an impending trip outta town:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/did-making-the-rules-of-war-better-make-the-world-worse
Also, from BJ .. e-books and libraries.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2021/09/19/weekend-read-the-surprisingly-big-business-of-library-e-books/
Screw e-books. A personal opinion.
Gimme the real tactile, fragrant, sacramental object.
I am conservative that way.
Bibliophilia was mentioned.
I sublet my apartment from my collection of books and make room for myself as they allow.
The arrive in bundles weekly, like refugees, some from abroad, and squat among or squeeze in between the native books, with equanimity.
Some dozen or so of them, my well-used, frequently reread and now physically disintegrating-to-dust favorites …. Madame Bovary, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, Ulysses, The Moviegoer, Love In The Ruins, Flannery O’Connor’s stories, Moby Dick, The Adventures of Augie March, Robert Frost poems, etc .. it’s hard to narrow this list down .. … huddle together on their own shelf for support, like my now 32-year old son’s two favorite threadbare childhood teddy bears do on his dresser at his Mom’s house.
I’ve replaced most of them with newer copies, but will never get rid of them.
In other news, mostly for Donald from the other thread about our foreign war policy … several conjoined reviews of recent books which join my non-fiction shelves as soon as I return from an impending trip outta town:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/did-making-the-rules-of-war-better-make-the-world-worse
Also, from BJ .. e-books and libraries.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2021/09/19/weekend-read-the-surprisingly-big-business-of-library-e-books/
Screw e-books. A personal opinion.
Gimme the real tactile, fragrant, sacramental object.
I am conservative that way.
“So on the whole, while not a fan of US border policy under either guy (or at all, in recent memory), I prefer Biden’s.”
This can’t be emphasized enough.
Trump and his admirers are fucking killers.
Any return to their tactics of abject incompetent cruelty will be met with insurmountable violence.
“So on the whole, while not a fan of US border policy under either guy (or at all, in recent memory), I prefer Biden’s.”
This can’t be emphasized enough.
Trump and his admirers are fucking killers.
Any return to their tactics of abject incompetent cruelty will be met with insurmountable violence.
IMO Filkins did a good job with those book reviews in pointing out the seams and disconnects in their arguments while conveying their main points.
I was, for example, glad that he took the first book to task for not considering the role of technology in the extension of war. I’d been thinking that the whole time he was summarizing the argument. I’d add that one of the biggest drivers of that change has been communication technology, which has not just transformed war, but also political oversight of war and media coverage of war.
The laser guided smart bomb footage we saw over and over in the first Gulf War both created a powerful spectacle and set the impression of the great precision with which war could be waged.
And video games piggy back on this impression and increase it.
IMO Filkins did a good job with those book reviews in pointing out the seams and disconnects in their arguments while conveying their main points.
I was, for example, glad that he took the first book to task for not considering the role of technology in the extension of war. I’d been thinking that the whole time he was summarizing the argument. I’d add that one of the biggest drivers of that change has been communication technology, which has not just transformed war, but also political oversight of war and media coverage of war.
The laser guided smart bomb footage we saw over and over in the first Gulf War both created a powerful spectacle and set the impression of the great precision with which war could be waged.
And video games piggy back on this impression and increase it.
Unless that person wants to be unnuanced, if one wants to draw a line between Afghanistan and Del Rio, Texas, I think that person has to explain how an operation run by the US military as part of foreign policy and a domestic situation within the borders of the US that is being dealt with by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement are basically the same thing. Because if that were the case, then anything done by, say, Western civilization, would be subject to criticism.
Nuance, it really is tough. So tough that I recommend one not bite hooks…
Unless that person wants to be unnuanced, if one wants to draw a line between Afghanistan and Del Rio, Texas, I think that person has to explain how an operation run by the US military as part of foreign policy and a domestic situation within the borders of the US that is being dealt with by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement are basically the same thing. Because if that were the case, then anything done by, say, Western civilization, would be subject to criticism.
Nuance, it really is tough. So tough that I recommend one not bite hooks…
It is not unreasonable to start a policy discussion, as McKinney did, by saying “I don’t like the current policy” or “the current policy isn’t working.”
Actually, what I said was that Biden does not seem to have a policy for the border, nor does he seem to have a coherent policy in other respects. It isn’t complicated.
Asking me, in response to my comment, what I think the policy should be is dodging the question.
It is not unreasonable to start a policy discussion, as McKinney did, by saying “I don’t like the current policy” or “the current policy isn’t working.”
Actually, what I said was that Biden does not seem to have a policy for the border, nor does he seem to have a coherent policy in other respects. It isn’t complicated.
Asking me, in response to my comment, what I think the policy should be is dodging the question.
I guess that was a rhetorical question? I don’t see any actual questions there to dodge.
I was trying to locate an actual subject or object for a discussion.
I guess that was a rhetorical question? I don’t see any actual questions there to dodge.
I was trying to locate an actual subject or object for a discussion.
Biden doesn’t to have a policy to stop people from walking through another country.
incoherent!
Biden doesn’t to have a policy to stop people from walking through another country.
incoherent!
Someone is concerned that all those people will crowd him out of his place under the bridge…
Someone is concerned that all those people will crowd him out of his place under the bridge…
Actually, what I said was that Biden does not seem to have a policy for the border, nor does he seem to have a coherent policy in other respects. It isn’t complicated.
OK, you’re saying that Biden should have a policy. Can’t see anyone here (well, maybe Charles) arguing against that.
But at some point you have to lay out what that policy should have as its goals. And what you think the policy should be. Do you have a problem with that?
Yeah, you can say that coming up with one is what politicians (“the administration”) are for. But since they are no smarter than the rest of us, and are supposed to represent us, maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to figure out what kind of policy we want them to come up with. At least in broad outline.
Actually, what I said was that Biden does not seem to have a policy for the border, nor does he seem to have a coherent policy in other respects. It isn’t complicated.
OK, you’re saying that Biden should have a policy. Can’t see anyone here (well, maybe Charles) arguing against that.
But at some point you have to lay out what that policy should have as its goals. And what you think the policy should be. Do you have a problem with that?
Yeah, you can say that coming up with one is what politicians (“the administration”) are for. But since they are no smarter than the rest of us, and are supposed to represent us, maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to figure out what kind of policy we want them to come up with. At least in broad outline.
0.025s of Google’s time will give anyone who wants to know quite a lot of info about what Biden is doing at the border – and you can learn what Republicans who are paying attention think about Biden’s policies.
but, claiming he doesn’t have one, or that it’s incoherent, is a Republican-driven message that nicely ties-in to the also-Republican-driven message that he also doesn’t have a foreign policy.
it’s a coherent message.
i expect to hear the word “incoherent” a lot from Republicans.
it’s the “arrogant” of today.
0.025s of Google’s time will give anyone who wants to know quite a lot of info about what Biden is doing at the border – and you can learn what Republicans who are paying attention think about Biden’s policies.
but, claiming he doesn’t have one, or that it’s incoherent, is a Republican-driven message that nicely ties-in to the also-Republican-driven message that he also doesn’t have a foreign policy.
it’s a coherent message.
i expect to hear the word “incoherent” a lot from Republicans.
it’s the “arrogant” of today.
An American success story, later to be diagnosed as an American autopsy gone bad:
https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-says-militarys-vaccine-requirements-are-plot-purge-sincere-christians
As opposed to the conservative movement plan to murder all insincere christians, swarthy gents with low testosterone and, girly boys, not to mention girls on their way to aborting fetuses fathered by republicans with little dicks who like a little rapey action.
An American success story, later to be diagnosed as an American autopsy gone bad:
https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-says-militarys-vaccine-requirements-are-plot-purge-sincere-christians
As opposed to the conservative movement plan to murder all insincere christians, swarthy gents with low testosterone and, girly boys, not to mention girls on their way to aborting fetuses fathered by republicans with little dicks who like a little rapey action.
Well, at least Biden isn’t “uppity”.
I agree with wj: citizens *should* make policy suggestions. Some will be good, some will be bad, some (mine!) will be considered nutzo. But that’s what it takes to explore the phase-space.
But some people just want to come here and bitch about stuff.
Well, at least Biden isn’t “uppity”.
I agree with wj: citizens *should* make policy suggestions. Some will be good, some will be bad, some (mine!) will be considered nutzo. But that’s what it takes to explore the phase-space.
But some people just want to come here and bitch about stuff.
Pick your sides, motherfuckers:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/out-of-state-snitch-contacts-stasi-to-enforce-fugitive-uterus-act
Thank God Republicans armed us.
Pick your sides, motherfuckers:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/out-of-state-snitch-contacts-stasi-to-enforce-fugitive-uterus-act
Thank God Republicans armed us.
I read this
And I said to myself: the guy might have a point. If by “the current administration of elections” he means “votes being counted honestly”, you can see why he would be concerned. Life is tough that way, when you decide to embrace insanity.
I read this
And I said to myself: the guy might have a point. If by “the current administration of elections” he means “votes being counted honestly”, you can see why he would be concerned. Life is tough that way, when you decide to embrace insanity.
Meanwhile, on the covid front, this
California has the lowest coronavirus rate in the nation. Here’s what we know
The per capita infection rate in California is half, or less, the rate in places like Florida and Texas. Also, within California, red counties are in far worse shape (not just higher infection rates, but ICUs flooded, etc.) than blue ones. Hmmm….
Meanwhile, on the covid front, this
California has the lowest coronavirus rate in the nation. Here’s what we know
The per capita infection rate in California is half, or less, the rate in places like Florida and Texas. Also, within California, red counties are in far worse shape (not just higher infection rates, but ICUs flooded, etc.) than blue ones. Hmmm….
I’m back in the classroom on Monday and very thankful for CA’s low rates of infection, mask mandates, and vaccine requirements. The university faculty I know in other states are filled with a lot more dread of a breakout.
Mostly though, all of us are bravely facing our wyrd, because what else can you do but quit*.
*Happening a lot, and even moreso with graduate teaching assistants and adjunct faculty who might not even have health coverage or sick days (paid or otherwise).
I’m back in the classroom on Monday and very thankful for CA’s low rates of infection, mask mandates, and vaccine requirements. The university faculty I know in other states are filled with a lot more dread of a breakout.
Mostly though, all of us are bravely facing our wyrd, because what else can you do but quit*.
*Happening a lot, and even moreso with graduate teaching assistants and adjunct faculty who might not even have health coverage or sick days (paid or otherwise).
even moreso with graduate teaching assistants and adjunct faculty who might not even have health coverage or sick days (paid or otherwise).
Perhaps covid will motivate a long overdue revision of how non-tenure-track teachers are treated.
even moreso with graduate teaching assistants and adjunct faculty who might not even have health coverage or sick days (paid or otherwise).
Perhaps covid will motivate a long overdue revision of how non-tenure-track teachers are treated.
The per capita infection rate in California is half, or less, the rate in places like Florida and Texas.
Alabama COVID death count for the year is currently higher than Alabama birth count.
they still don’t get it.
The per capita infection rate in California is half, or less, the rate in places like Florida and Texas.
Alabama COVID death count for the year is currently higher than Alabama birth count.
they still don’t get it.
Mississippi surpassed my home state in per capita COVID deaths last week to take the top spot in the nation. New Jersey, the former number one, was hit particularly hard in the beginning of the pandemic before anyone knew much about the virus, before treatments had improved, and, obviously, before vaccines had been developed. Probably before anyone knew it was even circulating yet.
Southern states and a few Western states continue to surpass the Northeastern states that were hit hard in the beginning in per capita deaths and cases. It’s like watching a morbid bubble sort.
Mississippi surpassed my home state in per capita COVID deaths last week to take the top spot in the nation. New Jersey, the former number one, was hit particularly hard in the beginning of the pandemic before anyone knew much about the virus, before treatments had improved, and, obviously, before vaccines had been developed. Probably before anyone knew it was even circulating yet.
Southern states and a few Western states continue to surpass the Northeastern states that were hit hard in the beginning in per capita deaths and cases. It’s like watching a morbid bubble sort.
Perhaps covid will motivate a long overdue revision of how non-tenure-track teachers are treated.
Not so far, judging from the UC system’s response.
Tenured faculty get it, but the administration has too little contact with classrooms and students to see anything but the enrollment and budget numbers.
Perhaps covid will motivate a long overdue revision of how non-tenure-track teachers are treated.
Not so far, judging from the UC system’s response.
Tenured faculty get it, but the administration has too little contact with classrooms and students to see anything but the enrollment and budget numbers.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/09/21/the-gops-faux-outrage-over-haitian-migrants-at-the-texas-border/
Ted Cruz, a subhuman murderer, sez this is all Joe Biden ‘s fault. Time was around here we had conservatives who wouldn’t put Cruz out with raw sewage if he burst into flames. I guess we can upgrade Cruz’s end now to having his self-arsonist burning ratfucker flesh quaffed by only the very best of the purest, filtered, treated sewage.
I counsel standing as far away from Cruz as possible. There’s a drone missile with his name on it and the resulting conflagration will burn everyone in his vicinity.
“They still don’t get it”
It takes awhile for a population under siege from mass murdering tyrants to regroup and rise up to butcher and slaughter the genocidal filth killing them. Just so, the victims of serial killers can pile up for some time before the perps
are apprehended and brought to justice and executed.
It’s just a matter of time until the American conservative movement embodied in the Republican Party meets its savage end at the vengeful hands of those who survived their fucking hate and bullet-headed malignant stupidity.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/09/21/the-gops-faux-outrage-over-haitian-migrants-at-the-texas-border/
Ted Cruz, a subhuman murderer, sez this is all Joe Biden ‘s fault. Time was around here we had conservatives who wouldn’t put Cruz out with raw sewage if he burst into flames. I guess we can upgrade Cruz’s end now to having his self-arsonist burning ratfucker flesh quaffed by only the very best of the purest, filtered, treated sewage.
I counsel standing as far away from Cruz as possible. There’s a drone missile with his name on it and the resulting conflagration will burn everyone in his vicinity.
“They still don’t get it”
It takes awhile for a population under siege from mass murdering tyrants to regroup and rise up to butcher and slaughter the genocidal filth killing them. Just so, the victims of serial killers can pile up for some time before the perps
are apprehended and brought to justice and executed.
It’s just a matter of time until the American conservative movement embodied in the Republican Party meets its savage end at the vengeful hands of those who survived their fucking hate and bullet-headed malignant stupidity.
Hoping GftNC’s month is going as well as circumstances allow and missing her input in the conversation.
Hoping GftNC’s month is going as well as circumstances allow and missing her input in the conversation.
Amen
Amen
Indeed.
Indeed.
what they said
what they said
Fifthed.
Fifthed.
Sixthed.
Sixthed.
yup
yup
Yes.
Yes.
[excuses dwindling]
[excuses dwindling]
Well, I’m not cheering them on, but China is probably going to kick our butts.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-massive-belt-and-road-initiative
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/understanding-belt-and-road-initiative
Xinjiang has a large Turkic-speaking Muslim population which has grown increasingly frustrated with Beijing’s rule. Since the 1990s, Xinjiang has also become the main source of terrorism within China. “Aspirations towards greater autonomy or outright independence have never been far from the surface of political life in the province”, notes Andrew Small, a leading expert on China–Pakistan relations.[21] The spread of radical Islamism in Xinjiang is adding further complexity to an already tense situation.
The ruling Communist party regards Xinjiang’s separatist movement as an existential threat to the party state. Beijing believes poverty and underdevelopment is at the heart of rising militancy in the restive province and that the best strategy to address the root cause is integrating Xinjiang with the neighbouring region.[22]
A former Chinese ambassador to Islamabad, Lu Shuling, argues the construction of the Port of Gwadar is economically vital for landlocked Xinjiang, which is 4000 to 5000 kilometres away from China’s coastal ports. Lu believes the port will significantly reduce the transport costs for the province. He further argues that the economic benefits of the corridor will help to solve Pakistan’s and Xinjiang’s political problems: “The best medicine to address the terrorism problem is through tackling the incubator of terrorism, namely poverty.”[23] The head of the Chinese Central Bank in Xinjiang has made a similar argument, noting that better connectivity between the province and the Central Asian region will bring both “economic and national security dividends”.[24]
Well, I’m not cheering them on, but China is probably going to kick our butts.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-massive-belt-and-road-initiative
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/understanding-belt-and-road-initiative
Xinjiang has a large Turkic-speaking Muslim population which has grown increasingly frustrated with Beijing’s rule. Since the 1990s, Xinjiang has also become the main source of terrorism within China. “Aspirations towards greater autonomy or outright independence have never been far from the surface of political life in the province”, notes Andrew Small, a leading expert on China–Pakistan relations.[21] The spread of radical Islamism in Xinjiang is adding further complexity to an already tense situation.
The ruling Communist party regards Xinjiang’s separatist movement as an existential threat to the party state. Beijing believes poverty and underdevelopment is at the heart of rising militancy in the restive province and that the best strategy to address the root cause is integrating Xinjiang with the neighbouring region.[22]
A former Chinese ambassador to Islamabad, Lu Shuling, argues the construction of the Port of Gwadar is economically vital for landlocked Xinjiang, which is 4000 to 5000 kilometres away from China’s coastal ports. Lu believes the port will significantly reduce the transport costs for the province. He further argues that the economic benefits of the corridor will help to solve Pakistan’s and Xinjiang’s political problems: “The best medicine to address the terrorism problem is through tackling the incubator of terrorism, namely poverty.”[23] The head of the Chinese Central Bank in Xinjiang has made a similar argument, noting that better connectivity between the province and the Central Asian region will bring both “economic and national security dividends”.[24]
Beijing believes poverty and underdevelopment is at the heart of rising militancy in the restive province and that the best strategy to address the root cause is integrating Xinjiang with the neighbouring region.
No doubt it is comforting for them to believe this. Rather than address the fact that the major causes are a combination of two other factors.
First, the CCP objects to any organization which is not subordinate to it. Which definitively includes anything resembling organized religion. Islam may not be as hierarchical as, for example, Roman Catholicism. But it easily qualifies as an unacceptable threat. (As did Tibetan Buddhism. That’s why virtually all the monasteries were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. And why they attempted to replace the Dalai Lama with the subservient Panchen Lama.)
Second, China continues to view all non-Han with . . . “contempt” is not to strong a word. Ask the Tibetans or the Vietnamese.
Beijing believes poverty and underdevelopment is at the heart of rising militancy in the restive province and that the best strategy to address the root cause is integrating Xinjiang with the neighbouring region.
No doubt it is comforting for them to believe this. Rather than address the fact that the major causes are a combination of two other factors.
First, the CCP objects to any organization which is not subordinate to it. Which definitively includes anything resembling organized religion. Islam may not be as hierarchical as, for example, Roman Catholicism. But it easily qualifies as an unacceptable threat. (As did Tibetan Buddhism. That’s why virtually all the monasteries were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. And why they attempted to replace the Dalai Lama with the subservient Panchen Lama.)
Second, China continues to view all non-Han with . . . “contempt” is not to strong a word. Ask the Tibetans or the Vietnamese.
Here’s a fun bit of reverse psychology:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/09/22/funeral-home-ad-spreads-message-for-the-unvaccinated/
A (supposed) funeral home in North Carolina put up a big advertisement on the side of a truck parked where folks were tailgating before Sunday’s game. The banner:
With a link to a website for vaccinations. An intetesting approach to getting a conversation started. After all, when was the last time you saw an ad for a funeral home?
Here’s a fun bit of reverse psychology:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/09/22/funeral-home-ad-spreads-message-for-the-unvaccinated/
A (supposed) funeral home in North Carolina put up a big advertisement on the side of a truck parked where folks were tailgating before Sunday’s game. The banner:
With a link to a website for vaccinations. An intetesting approach to getting a conversation started. After all, when was the last time you saw an ad for a funeral home?
That’s why virtually all the monasteries were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution.
During the Cultural Devolution, they destroyed much of their own culture. Many of the remaining temples are neglected shambles.
That’s why virtually all the monasteries were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution.
During the Cultural Devolution, they destroyed much of their own culture. Many of the remaining temples are neglected shambles.
Second, China continues to view all non-Han with . . . “contempt” is not to strong a word. Ask the Tibetans or the Vietnamese.
And that is different from the US in what way? We just had one regular here (admittedly an outlier, but opinions vary) tell us about the “indigenous, non-capitalist, non-white” in Afghanistan.
Yes, there is a sense of Han superiority. It should look very very familiar…
Second, China continues to view all non-Han with . . . “contempt” is not to strong a word. Ask the Tibetans or the Vietnamese.
And that is different from the US in what way? We just had one regular here (admittedly an outlier, but opinions vary) tell us about the “indigenous, non-capitalist, non-white” in Afghanistan.
Yes, there is a sense of Han superiority. It should look very very familiar…
During the Cultural Devolution, they destroyed much of their own culture. [emphasis added]
Are you claiming that it was Tibetans spontaneously doing the destruction? Seriously?
During the Cultural Devolution, they destroyed much of their own culture. [emphasis added]
Are you claiming that it was Tibetans spontaneously doing the destruction? Seriously?
The weird thing is that the main source of domestic terrorism in the US is a subset of the in group rather than one of the out groups.
The weird thing is that the main source of domestic terrorism in the US is a subset of the in group rather than one of the out groups.
Are you claiming that it was Tibetans spontaneously doing the destruction? Seriously?
No, I am claiming that, during the Cultural Devolution[intentional misnaming], China destroyed much of its own culture while it was destroying other cultures.
Are you claiming that it was Tibetans spontaneously doing the destruction? Seriously?
No, I am claiming that, during the Cultural Devolution[intentional misnaming], China destroyed much of its own culture while it was destroying other cultures.
Thanks for the clarification. That, I totally agree with.
Thanks for the clarification. That, I totally agree with.
lj, the theoretical difference is that America got conquered by the ‘white race’ (thus proving the inferiority of the natives) while the ‘true’ Chinese are (in their own mind) the original natives. I have even heard of claims made in China that they are a different subspecies of human that developed independently (and even earlier) than those European upstarts, so literally a race apart.
I am inclined to see more parallels to Aristotle than ‘modern’ racism.
Of course one does not need to be the actual top dog to feel superior to everyone else, as some ‘stone age’ tribes of today will tell you.
It seems to be a general human trait with culture only influencing how far up one holds one’s nose and how impolite one expresses one’s own superiority to the inferior others.
lj, the theoretical difference is that America got conquered by the ‘white race’ (thus proving the inferiority of the natives) while the ‘true’ Chinese are (in their own mind) the original natives. I have even heard of claims made in China that they are a different subspecies of human that developed independently (and even earlier) than those European upstarts, so literally a race apart.
I am inclined to see more parallels to Aristotle than ‘modern’ racism.
Of course one does not need to be the actual top dog to feel superior to everyone else, as some ‘stone age’ tribes of today will tell you.
It seems to be a general human trait with culture only influencing how far up one holds one’s nose and how impolite one expresses one’s own superiority to the inferior others.
China has something of a tradition of rulers ordering “Destroy everything antedating my birth and destroy all records that anything existed before I became ruler!”. Mao was a copycat.
Monotheistic religions occasionally have the same attitude.
China has something of a tradition of rulers ordering “Destroy everything antedating my birth and destroy all records that anything existed before I became ruler!”. Mao was a copycat.
Monotheistic religions occasionally have the same attitude.
We just had one regular here (admittedly an outlier, but opinions vary) tell us about the “indigenous, non-capitalist, non-white” in Afghanistan.
No bad faith here with this selective, out-of-context quote.
We just had one regular here (admittedly an outlier, but opinions vary) tell us about the “indigenous, non-capitalist, non-white” in Afghanistan.
No bad faith here with this selective, out-of-context quote.
Yes, there is a sense of Han superiority. It should look very very familiar..
The difference, to my mind, is that we do fold new people (aka immigrants) into the mix. Not without resistance, and not quickly, to be sure. But the immigrants we were objecting to become, in a couple of generations, part of the generally, though certainly not universally, accepted American population. (And join in on the objections to the next set of immigrants.)
In contrast my sense is that non-Han have never gotten accepted in China as Chinese. By any significant part of the Chinese population. Hard enough to get accepted if you are Cantonese.
Yes, there is a sense of Han superiority. It should look very very familiar..
The difference, to my mind, is that we do fold new people (aka immigrants) into the mix. Not without resistance, and not quickly, to be sure. But the immigrants we were objecting to become, in a couple of generations, part of the generally, though certainly not universally, accepted American population. (And join in on the objections to the next set of immigrants.)
In contrast my sense is that non-Han have never gotten accepted in China as Chinese. By any significant part of the Chinese population. Hard enough to get accepted if you are Cantonese.
The best medicine to address the terrorism problem is through tackling the incubator of terrorism, namely poverty
I can’t think of a reason why anyone should believe that.
The best medicine to address the terrorism problem is through tackling the incubator of terrorism, namely poverty
I can’t think of a reason why anyone should believe that.
I can’t think of a reason why anyone should believe that.
Political convenience comes to mind….
I can’t think of a reason why anyone should believe that.
Political convenience comes to mind….
The weird thing is that the main source of domestic terrorism in the US is a subset of the in group rather than one of the out groups.
i’d say that’s because Republican mythology has it that adherents are a persecuted minority, who need to fight the evil oppressive liberals for the soul of the country. they aren’t just people who have policy disagreements, they are the only rue Americans, and they’re outnumbered by the perfidious Democrats.
Dems are like “Damn, Republicans suck!”
Republicans are like “We are the only true Americans and nothing is more important than Taking Back Our Country!”
The weird thing is that the main source of domestic terrorism in the US is a subset of the in group rather than one of the out groups.
i’d say that’s because Republican mythology has it that adherents are a persecuted minority, who need to fight the evil oppressive liberals for the soul of the country. they aren’t just people who have policy disagreements, they are the only rue Americans, and they’re outnumbered by the perfidious Democrats.
Dems are like “Damn, Republicans suck!”
Republicans are like “We are the only true Americans and nothing is more important than Taking Back Our Country!”
The difference, to my mind, is that we do fold new people (aka immigrants) into the mix. Not without resistance, and not quickly, to be sure. But the immigrants we were objecting to become, in a couple of generations, part of the generally, though certainly not universally, accepted American population. (And join in on the objections to the next set of immigrants.)
Leaving aside the American Indian tribes (who are our own analog to Tibet). The Indian Wars ended in 1924.
Seems a better comparison than how we treat immigrants.
The difference, to my mind, is that we do fold new people (aka immigrants) into the mix. Not without resistance, and not quickly, to be sure. But the immigrants we were objecting to become, in a couple of generations, part of the generally, though certainly not universally, accepted American population. (And join in on the objections to the next set of immigrants.)
Leaving aside the American Indian tribes (who are our own analog to Tibet). The Indian Wars ended in 1924.
Seems a better comparison than how we treat immigrants.
Seems a better comparison than how we treat immigrants.
We certainly treated the Native Americans badly. Still do, in many respects. (See the requirement, in some states, to have a street address in order to vote. Even though lots of homes on the reservations do not.) So if you are trying for “We’re just as bad as they are”, it works.
But if you’re comparing the treatment of immigrants, which I was, it’s not even close.
Seems a better comparison than how we treat immigrants.
We certainly treated the Native Americans badly. Still do, in many respects. (See the requirement, in some states, to have a street address in order to vote. Even though lots of homes on the reservations do not.) So if you are trying for “We’re just as bad as they are”, it works.
But if you’re comparing the treatment of immigrants, which I was, it’s not even close.
Sure, but these are conquered territories, not areas with high percentages of immigrants.
And I’m not excusing China’s horrible human rights violations. Those are terrible and they need to stop. I’m just suggesting that our moral high horse is not very high or very moral, and perhaps a bit of humility and contrition is warranted on our part?
Sure, but these are conquered territories, not areas with high percentages of immigrants.
And I’m not excusing China’s horrible human rights violations. Those are terrible and they need to stop. I’m just suggesting that our moral high horse is not very high or very moral, and perhaps a bit of humility and contrition is warranted on our part?
How dare you insult the most American of horses? 😉
[even if it’s just another imported one since the natives, then still recent immigrants, managed to get rid of the indigenous ones at the end of the last ice age]
How dare you insult the most American of horses? 😉
[even if it’s just another imported one since the natives, then still recent immigrants, managed to get rid of the indigenous ones at the end of the last ice age]
I’m just suggesting that our moral high horse is not very high or very moral, and perhaps a bit of humility and contrition is warranted on our part?
probably.
but nobody else’s horse is actually very high. America’s aren’t exceptional in that way, either.
I’m just suggesting that our moral high horse is not very high or very moral, and perhaps a bit of humility and contrition is warranted on our part?
probably.
but nobody else’s horse is actually very high. America’s aren’t exceptional in that way, either.
But if you’re comparing the treatment of immigrants, which I was, it’s not even close.
But for the Native Americans, we’re all immigrants historically – some willing and some not. (Yet, only certain types of immigrants are the right ones for becoming really real Americans.)
But if you’re comparing the treatment of immigrants, which I was, it’s not even close.
But for the Native Americans, we’re all immigrants historically – some willing and some not. (Yet, only certain types of immigrants are the right ones for becoming really real Americans.)
Well, I suppose the question is this. How far back in history do we wish to go in deciding who has a right to be somewhere? After all, all of us are descendants of homo sapiens who overran and got rid of the Neanderthals, the Denisovans, etc. More recently, the world is full of people who invaded (not immigrated, invaded) someone else and settled in the new location.
In fairness, any time we start down this path we really should be explicit about how far back in history we are going to draw an arbitrary line — saying, the distribution as of this moment is definitive of who belongs where. Is my lifetime definitive? Or yours? Or the foundation time of my government? Or the (notional) foundation time of my nation? Pick any one, but be explicit which it was.
Well, I suppose the question is this. How far back in history do we wish to go in deciding who has a right to be somewhere? After all, all of us are descendants of homo sapiens who overran and got rid of the Neanderthals, the Denisovans, etc. More recently, the world is full of people who invaded (not immigrated, invaded) someone else and settled in the new location.
In fairness, any time we start down this path we really should be explicit about how far back in history we are going to draw an arbitrary line — saying, the distribution as of this moment is definitive of who belongs where. Is my lifetime definitive? Or yours? Or the foundation time of my government? Or the (notional) foundation time of my nation? Pick any one, but be explicit which it was.
500 years!
500 years!
500 years!
Which has the merit of being a round number….
500 years!
Which has the merit of being a round number….
Though it may not be apparent, I wrote it in hexadecimal notation, so keep that in mind.
Though it may not be apparent, I wrote it in hexadecimal notation, so keep that in mind.
Thanks all, for kind remarks. I try to drop in and keep up with what’s going on, but may not be properly able to take part for another six weeks or so. I do miss it…
Thanks all, for kind remarks. I try to drop in and keep up with what’s going on, but may not be properly able to take part for another six weeks or so. I do miss it…
No bad faith here with this selective, out-of-context quote.
Given that you’ve never retracted it, nope. I thought you’d be flattered that I took you as a representative of the American “we’re number #1!” type.
In fact, the confusion about Alabama and Atlanta also should be made mention of here, you were quite willing to use some Asian women as a trolling point without even taking the time to get where they were from correct.
But to some more serious commenters. wj, I’m sure there is an element of Han superiority involved and as I said, I’m not cheering China on. But it does seem like a step up if they are, if even in rhetoric, trying to alleviate poverty rather than selling them Stinger missiles. Even if you don’t think it is a step up, you might have to grant that it may work better.
And given the way white fragility went down here, I’m not sure we (note the inclusive first person plural there) have any room to talk.
And if you want to draw a line, how about 2020?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/04/native-americans-coronavirus-covid-death-rate
If you wanted to use AlaMcT’s benchmark of shortly after the Atomic Bombs were dropped
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_termination_policy
If you want to be a bit more generous, 1900?
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools
wj, I realize there may be a bit of collateral damage in this comment, and my apologies for that. But reaching for Han superiority to dismiss the Belt and Road initiative doesn’t really do much for me. It seems pretty obvious that China is serious about it and it will reshape a lot of things. “They are just doing it because they think they are better than everyone else” defines almost every major initiative in human history….
No bad faith here with this selective, out-of-context quote.
Given that you’ve never retracted it, nope. I thought you’d be flattered that I took you as a representative of the American “we’re number #1!” type.
In fact, the confusion about Alabama and Atlanta also should be made mention of here, you were quite willing to use some Asian women as a trolling point without even taking the time to get where they were from correct.
But to some more serious commenters. wj, I’m sure there is an element of Han superiority involved and as I said, I’m not cheering China on. But it does seem like a step up if they are, if even in rhetoric, trying to alleviate poverty rather than selling them Stinger missiles. Even if you don’t think it is a step up, you might have to grant that it may work better.
And given the way white fragility went down here, I’m not sure we (note the inclusive first person plural there) have any room to talk.
And if you want to draw a line, how about 2020?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/04/native-americans-coronavirus-covid-death-rate
If you wanted to use AlaMcT’s benchmark of shortly after the Atomic Bombs were dropped
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_termination_policy
If you want to be a bit more generous, 1900?
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools
wj, I realize there may be a bit of collateral damage in this comment, and my apologies for that. But reaching for Han superiority to dismiss the Belt and Road initiative doesn’t really do much for me. It seems pretty obvious that China is serious about it and it will reshape a lot of things. “They are just doing it because they think they are better than everyone else” defines almost every major initiative in human history….
This might also bear
https://warontherocks.com/2021/08/driving-a-wedge-between-china-and-russia-wont-work/
The assumption that the United States can drive a wedge between China and Russia is flawed. Unlike in the past, the Sino-Russian relationship is not hierarchical and does not require Russia’s unquestioning deference to China’s wishes. The two countries are miles apart ideologically, and neither expects the other to embrace the same worldview. Finally, China and Russia work hard to avoid frictions, both because they have no desire to see these frictions exploited by third parties and because they understand — rightly — that they are destined to be neighbors. If history has taught them anything, it is that it’s much better to be good neighbors than to be at each other’s throats.
*nuclear submarines* *cough*
https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/secret-us-uk-australia-deal-stabbed-france-in-the-back-1854118-2021-09-18
France accused the US of stabbing it in the back after a new ‘anti-China’ alliance was announced between the English-speaking US, UK and Australia.
I love the qualifier of ‘English-speaking’ in the subheadline.
This might also bear
https://warontherocks.com/2021/08/driving-a-wedge-between-china-and-russia-wont-work/
The assumption that the United States can drive a wedge between China and Russia is flawed. Unlike in the past, the Sino-Russian relationship is not hierarchical and does not require Russia’s unquestioning deference to China’s wishes. The two countries are miles apart ideologically, and neither expects the other to embrace the same worldview. Finally, China and Russia work hard to avoid frictions, both because they have no desire to see these frictions exploited by third parties and because they understand — rightly — that they are destined to be neighbors. If history has taught them anything, it is that it’s much better to be good neighbors than to be at each other’s throats.
*nuclear submarines* *cough*
https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/secret-us-uk-australia-deal-stabbed-france-in-the-back-1854118-2021-09-18
France accused the US of stabbing it in the back after a new ‘anti-China’ alliance was announced between the English-speaking US, UK and Australia.
I love the qualifier of ‘English-speaking’ in the subheadline.
I love the qualifier of ‘English-speaking’ in the subheadline.
While Trump was in office and Brexit was proceeding, I (possibly more than once) said that I expected Trump to push very hard for a new NAFTA where NA was now North Atlantic, and a new NATO, and in both cases the founding members would be the US, the UK, and Canada. If one wanted to stretch, I understand that almost everyone in Iceland is fluent in English, as are India’s elite.
I love the qualifier of ‘English-speaking’ in the subheadline.
While Trump was in office and Brexit was proceeding, I (possibly more than once) said that I expected Trump to push very hard for a new NAFTA where NA was now North Atlantic, and a new NATO, and in both cases the founding members would be the US, the UK, and Canada. If one wanted to stretch, I understand that almost everyone in Iceland is fluent in English, as are India’s elite.
As I said I see parallels to Aristotle. He was absolutely certain that ethnic Greeks were superior to all other humans beings and thus entitled to be rulers (and the others should be happy to be their slaves). But he was no propagandist for genocide or even mistreating those that bowed to Greek superiority.
The Han Chinese seem to me also more of a people that would prefer to rule over a productive realm (of alive even if inferior) people) than to kill everyone not of the tribe and thus having to slowly refill the population deficit with one’s own. Pure pragmatism. Dead or starving peasants are unproductive and all to often unruly.
But of course there is also the willingness to crush any resistance seen as a threat to the system. But a credible threat of (state) terror is better than to actually have to follow up on it.
So, genocide is not the first and preferred option as was so often the case with European expansion/colonialism (including the permament filiations like e.g. America or Australia) but just one possible if regrettable tool.
As I said I see parallels to Aristotle. He was absolutely certain that ethnic Greeks were superior to all other humans beings and thus entitled to be rulers (and the others should be happy to be their slaves). But he was no propagandist for genocide or even mistreating those that bowed to Greek superiority.
The Han Chinese seem to me also more of a people that would prefer to rule over a productive realm (of alive even if inferior) people) than to kill everyone not of the tribe and thus having to slowly refill the population deficit with one’s own. Pure pragmatism. Dead or starving peasants are unproductive and all to often unruly.
But of course there is also the willingness to crush any resistance seen as a threat to the system. But a credible threat of (state) terror is better than to actually have to follow up on it.
So, genocide is not the first and preferred option as was so often the case with European expansion/colonialism (including the permament filiations like e.g. America or Australia) but just one possible if regrettable tool.
Somewhat vaguely related to the current discussion—
Loomis is an idiot.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/saadi-yacef-rip
I think Westerners should be much less quick to get on our high horses about violence against civilians conducted by terrorists, given our own record , but Loomis is still an idiot.
Somewhat vaguely related to the current discussion—
Loomis is an idiot.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/saadi-yacef-rip
I think Westerners should be much less quick to get on our high horses about violence against civilians conducted by terrorists, given our own record , but Loomis is still an idiot.
Yeah, I saw that. A great example of the fusing of some important points with the total inability to back down. He gets ripped in the comments, but I think that’s what he wants.
Yeah, I saw that. A great example of the fusing of some important points with the total inability to back down. He gets ripped in the comments, but I think that’s what he wants.
Yep, that’s what he wants
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/melvin-van-peebles-rip
Yep, that’s what he wants
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/melvin-van-peebles-rip
But it does seem like a step up if they are, if even in rhetoric, trying to alleviate poverty rather than selling them Stinger missiles. Even if you don’t think it is a step up, you might have to grant that it may work better.
My, possibly incorrect, impression was that Lu Shuling was talking about Xinjiang, rather than one of the countries under the Belt and Road initiative. (So the Singer missile sales option really isn’t on offer.)
I agree that allieviating poverty has much to recommend it. But compared to ceasing efforts to destroy the local culture (and/or population)? Not really likely to work all that well.
But it does seem like a step up if they are, if even in rhetoric, trying to alleviate poverty rather than selling them Stinger missiles. Even if you don’t think it is a step up, you might have to grant that it may work better.
My, possibly incorrect, impression was that Lu Shuling was talking about Xinjiang, rather than one of the countries under the Belt and Road initiative. (So the Singer missile sales option really isn’t on offer.)
I agree that allieviating poverty has much to recommend it. But compared to ceasing efforts to destroy the local culture (and/or population)? Not really likely to work all that well.
The assumption that the United States can drive a wedge between China and Russia is flawed.
The good news is, we don’t need to. Just refraining** from pushing them together would be sufficient. Russia can work up a negative reaction to China’s ambitions in Central Asia without our help.
** I do realize that “refrain” isn’t something that our foreign policy folks relate to very well.
The assumption that the United States can drive a wedge between China and Russia is flawed.
The good news is, we don’t need to. Just refraining** from pushing them together would be sufficient. Russia can work up a negative reaction to China’s ambitions in Central Asia without our help.
** I do realize that “refrain” isn’t something that our foreign policy folks relate to very well.
But compared to ceasing efforts to destroy the local culture (and/or population)?
That’s something I’ve been thinking about. Yes, I agree that destroying local culture is not good. But there is also the fetishizing of ‘authentic’ culture in a way that any attempts to adapt it is ‘destroying’ it. The previously mentioned Loomis has a number of posts on this, and I think this is the most recent
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/05/alice-waters-and-reductive-views-of-food-cultures
One big important point here is that Alice Waters does not have the lock and key to defining legitimate food cultures. People create food cultures all the time out of what is available. A lot of our food discourse revolves around authenticity politics and no one imbibes this more than Waters. But food is one of those things, like language, that is always changing. It wasn’t necessarily better in the past (and in the U.S., absolutely was not better in the past) and it might or might not be better in the future, whatever “better” means here. But there are many paths to a food life. Even if I might make fun of bad condiments.
Not saying that complaining about using the wrong cheese on a philly steak is equal to destroying buddhist monasteries, but it does link to my hobby horse of the Puritanical nature of US culture, which is often talks about local culture, but rarely bothers to figure out what it is.
China is dealing atrociously with Tibet because they are resisting and I really doubt they can deal with a Muslim population that really wants to be muslim. It may well be that every putative empire needs to be convinced that they are the only game in town.
But compared to ceasing efforts to destroy the local culture (and/or population)?
That’s something I’ve been thinking about. Yes, I agree that destroying local culture is not good. But there is also the fetishizing of ‘authentic’ culture in a way that any attempts to adapt it is ‘destroying’ it. The previously mentioned Loomis has a number of posts on this, and I think this is the most recent
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/05/alice-waters-and-reductive-views-of-food-cultures
One big important point here is that Alice Waters does not have the lock and key to defining legitimate food cultures. People create food cultures all the time out of what is available. A lot of our food discourse revolves around authenticity politics and no one imbibes this more than Waters. But food is one of those things, like language, that is always changing. It wasn’t necessarily better in the past (and in the U.S., absolutely was not better in the past) and it might or might not be better in the future, whatever “better” means here. But there are many paths to a food life. Even if I might make fun of bad condiments.
Not saying that complaining about using the wrong cheese on a philly steak is equal to destroying buddhist monasteries, but it does link to my hobby horse of the Puritanical nature of US culture, which is often talks about local culture, but rarely bothers to figure out what it is.
China is dealing atrociously with Tibet because they are resisting and I really doubt they can deal with a Muslim population that really wants to be muslim. It may well be that every putative empire needs to be convinced that they are the only game in town.
I agree that destroying local culture is not good. But there is also the fetishizing of ‘authentic’ culture in a way that any attempts to adapt it is ‘destroying’ it.
My personal view is that anyone’s local culture should be free to adapt as its members want. New food, new music, new business practices, new language even. However, nobody should be forced, from outside, to change. With a major caveat when that local culture includes repressing local subgroups (gender, ethnic, religious, etc.).
So if China was forcing a local culture to stop repressing, for example, women? I’d have no problem with that. But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
As I say, a personal view.
I agree that destroying local culture is not good. But there is also the fetishizing of ‘authentic’ culture in a way that any attempts to adapt it is ‘destroying’ it.
My personal view is that anyone’s local culture should be free to adapt as its members want. New food, new music, new business practices, new language even. However, nobody should be forced, from outside, to change. With a major caveat when that local culture includes repressing local subgroups (gender, ethnic, religious, etc.).
So if China was forcing a local culture to stop repressing, for example, women? I’d have no problem with that. But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
As I say, a personal view.
“ A great example of the fusing of some important points with the total inability to back down”
Yeah. It’s frustrating to me because there are some good points to be made on the topic of Western hypocrisy regarding terrorism and asymmetrical warfare and some others in that thread make them, but Loomis’s own moral stance is incoherent— if you defend targeting children then what exactly are the moral values you are fighting for? Several others point out that it isn’t a coincidence that terrorist “ liberation” movements , when successful, often lead to dictatorial governments once they take power.
“ A great example of the fusing of some important points with the total inability to back down”
Yeah. It’s frustrating to me because there are some good points to be made on the topic of Western hypocrisy regarding terrorism and asymmetrical warfare and some others in that thread make them, but Loomis’s own moral stance is incoherent— if you defend targeting children then what exactly are the moral values you are fighting for? Several others point out that it isn’t a coincidence that terrorist “ liberation” movements , when successful, often lead to dictatorial governments once they take power.
Several others point out that it isn’t a coincidence that terrorist “ liberation” movements , when successful, often lead to dictatorial governments once they take power.
As we are seeing in Afghanistan currently, those movements tend to end up with a large number of folks (specifically young men) who have no skills beyond combat. That means that there aren’t a whole lot of folks who know how to run a new government. Which, in turn, means that the government which is most likely to work, at all, is one which mimics the very hierarchical military structure that they are already accustomed to.
In fact, I think that there’s an argument to be made that there is only way you get from a liberation movement to a non-dictatorship. That’s if the leader, especially the military leader, of the movement is willing to step aside. And throw his personal prestige behind a tradition of regular turnover at the top.
Several others point out that it isn’t a coincidence that terrorist “ liberation” movements , when successful, often lead to dictatorial governments once they take power.
As we are seeing in Afghanistan currently, those movements tend to end up with a large number of folks (specifically young men) who have no skills beyond combat. That means that there aren’t a whole lot of folks who know how to run a new government. Which, in turn, means that the government which is most likely to work, at all, is one which mimics the very hierarchical military structure that they are already accustomed to.
In fact, I think that there’s an argument to be made that there is only way you get from a liberation movement to a non-dictatorship. That’s if the leader, especially the military leader, of the movement is willing to step aside. And throw his personal prestige behind a tradition of regular turnover at the top.
But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet. Here in Japan, I get frustrated with token attempts at multilingualism, and an absence of real consideration of a true multilingual society looks like, but China is in a lot of ways a lot more multilingual that the US.
You are concerned with Cantonese, but watching interviews with wuxia stars, you see them being asked in Putonghua and replying in Cantonese. Now, I don’t know if it is because they are stars or cutting the translator out of the interview. But Michelle Yeoh and Chow Yun-Fat’s Mandarin were pretty bad in the Crouching Tiger movie but I don’t think Chinese blew off the movie because of that (though, like Japan, I imagine the success of the movie had them not voice their complaints as loudly) There are also Wong Kar-Wai’s films where the actors speak in the two dialects seamlessly. So I don’t get the automatic rejection of people who don’t speak Mandarin with a perfect accent like you often get with English. I mean, there are accents that work in American movies but there are others that don’t.
This is an interesting article
https://theasiadialogue.com/2015/06/12/multilingualism-discourse-and-identity-in-china/
The writer points out that diversity is going to naturally conflict with notions of political unity, but they don’t have to decide between one of the other, if they can find a way for the two to co-exist, they might be able to get further than the US. In fact, Chinese discourse on multilingualism is on languages as ‘resources’, much like it is in Salt Lake City,
(cf. https://le.utah.gov/~2021/bills/static/HCR022.html btw, the two sponsors pictured are Republicans)
but that idea of linguistic diversity as a resource has not permeated in other places in the US.
But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet. Here in Japan, I get frustrated with token attempts at multilingualism, and an absence of real consideration of a true multilingual society looks like, but China is in a lot of ways a lot more multilingual that the US.
You are concerned with Cantonese, but watching interviews with wuxia stars, you see them being asked in Putonghua and replying in Cantonese. Now, I don’t know if it is because they are stars or cutting the translator out of the interview. But Michelle Yeoh and Chow Yun-Fat’s Mandarin were pretty bad in the Crouching Tiger movie but I don’t think Chinese blew off the movie because of that (though, like Japan, I imagine the success of the movie had them not voice their complaints as loudly) There are also Wong Kar-Wai’s films where the actors speak in the two dialects seamlessly. So I don’t get the automatic rejection of people who don’t speak Mandarin with a perfect accent like you often get with English. I mean, there are accents that work in American movies but there are others that don’t.
This is an interesting article
https://theasiadialogue.com/2015/06/12/multilingualism-discourse-and-identity-in-china/
The writer points out that diversity is going to naturally conflict with notions of political unity, but they don’t have to decide between one of the other, if they can find a way for the two to co-exist, they might be able to get further than the US. In fact, Chinese discourse on multilingualism is on languages as ‘resources’, much like it is in Salt Lake City,
(cf. https://le.utah.gov/~2021/bills/static/HCR022.html btw, the two sponsors pictured are Republicans)
but that idea of linguistic diversity as a resource has not permeated in other places in the US.
Once there were official versions of the US national anthem in many many languages (including native Hawaiian) with an extra push during WW2. The idea was that every person in the US should be able to join in the chorus meaningfully, even if they did not (yet) speak or understand English.
These days it’s a goal of the Right to make singing it in any language but
EnglishAmerican at least a misdemeanor, if not an outright crime.Afaik, many would actually support that if it would stop ‘patriots’ with no singing talent from butchering it on a regular base. 😉
Personally, I think the choice was a dreadful one in the first place (both tune and text) given the many much better alternatives. But I believe we had that discussion here already several times.
Once there were official versions of the US national anthem in many many languages (including native Hawaiian) with an extra push during WW2. The idea was that every person in the US should be able to join in the chorus meaningfully, even if they did not (yet) speak or understand English.
These days it’s a goal of the Right to make singing it in any language but
EnglishAmerican at least a misdemeanor, if not an outright crime.Afaik, many would actually support that if it would stop ‘patriots’ with no singing talent from butchering it on a regular base. 😉
Personally, I think the choice was a dreadful one in the first place (both tune and text) given the many much better alternatives. But I believe we had that discussion here already several times.
The words maybe, but don’t mess with the harmony!!!
https://www.openculture.com/2015/07/stravinskys-illegal-arrangement-of-the-star-spangled-banner-1944.html
The words maybe, but don’t mess with the harmony!!!
https://www.openculture.com/2015/07/stravinskys-illegal-arrangement-of-the-star-spangled-banner-1944.html
After reading this:
I was a little disappointed at how normal sounding it was. I’m surprised the Boston police, in particular, could even hear the difference. I would expect that they would lack fine-tuned ears and musical knowledge as much as avant-garde sensibilities.
I guess I was hoping for a mash-up of the Star Spangled Banner and the Rite of Spring or something.
After reading this:
I was a little disappointed at how normal sounding it was. I’m surprised the Boston police, in particular, could even hear the difference. I would expect that they would lack fine-tuned ears and musical knowledge as much as avant-garde sensibilities.
I guess I was hoping for a mash-up of the Star Spangled Banner and the Rite of Spring or something.
But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet.
I would suggest that there is a significant difference between forcing someone to change their language, and them choosing to use another language for some purposes. I don’t know how things stand in other English speaking countries. But in the US, it is routine for state governments to provide forms and documents in multiple languages, and to accept forms filled out in them.
A couple weeks ago we had an election where the ballots were printed in English, Spanish, and Chinese. And available, on request at the polling place, in a half dozen additional languages. (Federal law requires all election materials be provided in any language spoken by more than 5% of the population.)
As for the Internet, lots of material is available in English simple because it is the most widely used (at least as a second language). The only place the script used in English has been required is in domain names (e.g. obsidianwings.blogs.com).
ICANN has a big project in progress (I know, because I’ve been working on it the last 6 years) to make domain names available in other languages and scripts. Working out what symbols are needed is a big task. Figuring out which ones can be mistaken for each other is substantially larger. (If you saw a letter I, where the dot had been replaced by an acute accent, would you even notice? Not to mention Cyrillic letters which are identical, visually, to C or O. The list goes on and on.)
But forcing the local culture to change religion or language? Definitely problematic.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet.
I would suggest that there is a significant difference between forcing someone to change their language, and them choosing to use another language for some purposes. I don’t know how things stand in other English speaking countries. But in the US, it is routine for state governments to provide forms and documents in multiple languages, and to accept forms filled out in them.
A couple weeks ago we had an election where the ballots were printed in English, Spanish, and Chinese. And available, on request at the polling place, in a half dozen additional languages. (Federal law requires all election materials be provided in any language spoken by more than 5% of the population.)
As for the Internet, lots of material is available in English simple because it is the most widely used (at least as a second language). The only place the script used in English has been required is in domain names (e.g. obsidianwings.blogs.com).
ICANN has a big project in progress (I know, because I’ve been working on it the last 6 years) to make domain names available in other languages and scripts. Working out what symbols are needed is a big task. Figuring out which ones can be mistaken for each other is substantially larger. (If you saw a letter I, where the dot had been replaced by an acute accent, would you even notice? Not to mention Cyrillic letters which are identical, visually, to C or O. The list goes on and on.)
hsh, I had the same impression.
But good ol’ Igor did also compose stuff in a more old-fashioned way, more in tune (pun intended) with traditional tastes in music.
As did many Russian modernists, if the need arose. Not surprising actually since they all learned their trade from Rimsky-Korsakov or one of his master students and thus knew how to do it.
hsh, I had the same impression.
But good ol’ Igor did also compose stuff in a more old-fashioned way, more in tune (pun intended) with traditional tastes in music.
As did many Russian modernists, if the need arose. Not surprising actually since they all learned their trade from Rimsky-Korsakov or one of his master students and thus knew how to do it.
I would suggest that there is a significant difference between forcing someone to change their language, and them choosing to use another language for some purposes.
There’s that nice soft Western force of ‘hey, we were here first’. No one forces you to use X, why should you be upset? You are on ICANN, what if _any_ consideration to the question of which non roman symbols to use had been considered when all this started? This is why it’s so hard to convince people that discriminiation can be structural, it can’t be ‘blamed’ on anyone, but it is still there. Which then gets some to thinking that each district only needs one voting station, everyone can drive, right?
There is, of course, a question of how much accomodation needs to be made and how much diversity should be taken into account. But failing to even acknowledge that this is a problem is where a lot of this gets started in the first place. And this doesn’t even get to the problems of people arguing in bad faith. That the Chinese have seen this play out enough times might make the push for ‘Han superiority’ a bit more understandable.
I would suggest that there is a significant difference between forcing someone to change their language, and them choosing to use another language for some purposes.
There’s that nice soft Western force of ‘hey, we were here first’. No one forces you to use X, why should you be upset? You are on ICANN, what if _any_ consideration to the question of which non roman symbols to use had been considered when all this started? This is why it’s so hard to convince people that discriminiation can be structural, it can’t be ‘blamed’ on anyone, but it is still there. Which then gets some to thinking that each district only needs one voting station, everyone can drive, right?
There is, of course, a question of how much accomodation needs to be made and how much diversity should be taken into account. But failing to even acknowledge that this is a problem is where a lot of this gets started in the first place. And this doesn’t even get to the problems of people arguing in bad faith. That the Chinese have seen this play out enough times might make the push for ‘Han superiority’ a bit more understandable.
China has also the advantage that people could communicate reasonably well in writing even if their dialects were mutually completely unintelligible. A nonphonetic writing system has at least that. Imo still not worth it, if one actually wants everyone to learn (and quickly) to read and write. But China couldn’t obviously copy the Korean model. Why btw are the Koreans so low on the hierarchy scale (of both the Chinese and the Japanese)? Just because the country was a colony of both for some extended time periods?
China has also the advantage that people could communicate reasonably well in writing even if their dialects were mutually completely unintelligible. A nonphonetic writing system has at least that. Imo still not worth it, if one actually wants everyone to learn (and quickly) to read and write. But China couldn’t obviously copy the Korean model. Why btw are the Koreans so low on the hierarchy scale (of both the Chinese and the Japanese)? Just because the country was a colony of both for some extended time periods?
You are on ICANN, what if _any_ consideration to the question of which non roman symbols to use had been considered when all this started?
At the very start, only English letters (specifically lower case English letters) got used. Which, for a US government project, was hardly surprising. Especially since, at that point, computers used an American standard keyboard, which doesn’t have a whole lot of additional possibilities. It was a couple of decades later than ICANN came into existence. And, fairly quickly, started work on allowing more symbols in domain names.
The first question was, necessarily, what languages should included. (I suppose other, non-language, symbols could have been included. But “no emoji!” had a lot of support.) After some consideration, the limit was set a “living languages” — i.e. no hieroglyphics. Unless someone accidentally missed something, the scripts of all of those languages got included.
The next had to do with what symbols within those scripts got in. First, punctuation marks got excluded. (I think that overbroad, but….) Then capital letters got excluded, on the grounds that, in the original English setup, only lower case was used. For alphabetic scripts, most of which are only used for a single language, that reduces the repertoire issue to a matter of consulting a grammar school text book. (For character-based languages, the experts tried to identify the set of characters that anyone with a high school education would know.)
But for the Latin script, things are more complex. For openers, we’ve got some 400+ living languages which use a derivative of the Latin script. (Mostly involving one of some 20 diacritic marks added to one of the basic letters. I’d bet that even the highly educated folks here have only ever encountered half of those.) The further decision got taken to restrict the languages considered to official languages (ones in which a government does business) plus those with at least a million native speakers. Arbitrary, but that was the decision. That got us down to some 200+ languages.
To the original 23 letters used in Latin, a few new letters got added (e.g. W, thorn, sharp S). But then, one (or, in the case f Vietnamese, 2) out of the possible 20 diacritic marks get added to various letters. That got the number of symbols for the Latin script up to 215.
I know, too much information for the question asked. Sorry about that.
You are on ICANN, what if _any_ consideration to the question of which non roman symbols to use had been considered when all this started?
At the very start, only English letters (specifically lower case English letters) got used. Which, for a US government project, was hardly surprising. Especially since, at that point, computers used an American standard keyboard, which doesn’t have a whole lot of additional possibilities. It was a couple of decades later than ICANN came into existence. And, fairly quickly, started work on allowing more symbols in domain names.
The first question was, necessarily, what languages should included. (I suppose other, non-language, symbols could have been included. But “no emoji!” had a lot of support.) After some consideration, the limit was set a “living languages” — i.e. no hieroglyphics. Unless someone accidentally missed something, the scripts of all of those languages got included.
The next had to do with what symbols within those scripts got in. First, punctuation marks got excluded. (I think that overbroad, but….) Then capital letters got excluded, on the grounds that, in the original English setup, only lower case was used. For alphabetic scripts, most of which are only used for a single language, that reduces the repertoire issue to a matter of consulting a grammar school text book. (For character-based languages, the experts tried to identify the set of characters that anyone with a high school education would know.)
But for the Latin script, things are more complex. For openers, we’ve got some 400+ living languages which use a derivative of the Latin script. (Mostly involving one of some 20 diacritic marks added to one of the basic letters. I’d bet that even the highly educated folks here have only ever encountered half of those.) The further decision got taken to restrict the languages considered to official languages (ones in which a government does business) plus those with at least a million native speakers. Arbitrary, but that was the decision. That got us down to some 200+ languages.
To the original 23 letters used in Latin, a few new letters got added (e.g. W, thorn, sharp S). But then, one (or, in the case f Vietnamese, 2) out of the possible 20 diacritic marks get added to various letters. That got the number of symbols for the Latin script up to 215.
I know, too much information for the question asked. Sorry about that.
The essence of the origin is that nobody, at least among those working on the ARPANet) anticipated the growth of the Internet that actually happened a couple of decades later. When the DNS (Domain Name System) was created/designed, it was expected to be used by a few US universities and US government labs. So, not really a sign of ethnocentricism to use only English.
The essence of the origin is that nobody, at least among those working on the ARPANet) anticipated the growth of the Internet that actually happened a couple of decades later. When the DNS (Domain Name System) was created/designed, it was expected to be used by a few US universities and US government labs. So, not really a sign of ethnocentricism to use only English.
Yes, the past is a different country. But if the US had been more multilingual, or just some of those people working on it at that time, might it have not considered some of those issues? It’s a really good thought experiment.
There’s the scene in The Martian when Matt Damon’s character gets the camera going and begins by setting up a Yes/No question. One of the guys at the space center says
Thirty-two minute round trip
communications time. He can only ask
yes/no questions, and all we can do is
point the camera. This won’t exactly be
an Algonquin round table of snappy
repartee.
Of course, this being an American can-do flick, the character uses hexadecimals to increase the number of characters that can be transmitted. Which suggests that the best solution would be to send anyone working on these issues off planet, put them in a life or death situation and say ‘ok, solve that…’
But again, I didn’t say anything about ethnocentrism, I just pointed out how it was structural. And if people understand the structural issues, it becomes a lot easier to work the problem.
I’m not demanding we get domain names in Old English glyphs or hierogylphics, but if you want to raise Han superiority as an issue and link it to standardization of a national language, it is a bit hypocritical. Especially given the treatment of Native American languages in the US.
Yes, the past is a different country. But if the US had been more multilingual, or just some of those people working on it at that time, might it have not considered some of those issues? It’s a really good thought experiment.
There’s the scene in The Martian when Matt Damon’s character gets the camera going and begins by setting up a Yes/No question. One of the guys at the space center says
Thirty-two minute round trip
communications time. He can only ask
yes/no questions, and all we can do is
point the camera. This won’t exactly be
an Algonquin round table of snappy
repartee.
Of course, this being an American can-do flick, the character uses hexadecimals to increase the number of characters that can be transmitted. Which suggests that the best solution would be to send anyone working on these issues off planet, put them in a life or death situation and say ‘ok, solve that…’
But again, I didn’t say anything about ethnocentrism, I just pointed out how it was structural. And if people understand the structural issues, it becomes a lot easier to work the problem.
I’m not demanding we get domain names in Old English glyphs or hierogylphics, but if you want to raise Han superiority as an issue and link it to standardization of a national language, it is a bit hypocritical. Especially given the treatment of Native American languages in the US.
Why btw are the Koreans so low on the hierarchy scale (of both the Chinese and the Japanese)? Just because the country was a colony of both for some extended time periods?
Yes, though it might have been different (or not as bad) had the country not been split in two post-war.
I do get this vague impression that Japanese are “afraid” of Koreans in the sense that they would lose in a contest with them. There is a phrase that says something like ‘If it’s 1 Korean vs. 1 Japanese, the Japanese will lose but if it is 10 vs. 10, the Japanese will win’ It’s a bit like Liebling’s, “I can write faster than anyone who can write better and better than anyone who can write faster,” but the Japanese version has a sense that (like most thoughts of outsiders) that they have some abilities that have to be acknowledged and if you were to contest on those grounds, you’d probably lose. So the key is to dismiss or diminish those domains.
Why btw are the Koreans so low on the hierarchy scale (of both the Chinese and the Japanese)? Just because the country was a colony of both for some extended time periods?
Yes, though it might have been different (or not as bad) had the country not been split in two post-war.
I do get this vague impression that Japanese are “afraid” of Koreans in the sense that they would lose in a contest with them. There is a phrase that says something like ‘If it’s 1 Korean vs. 1 Japanese, the Japanese will lose but if it is 10 vs. 10, the Japanese will win’ It’s a bit like Liebling’s, “I can write faster than anyone who can write better and better than anyone who can write faster,” but the Japanese version has a sense that (like most thoughts of outsiders) that they have some abilities that have to be acknowledged and if you were to contest on those grounds, you’d probably lose. So the key is to dismiss or diminish those domains.
I harshed on Loomis, so I should put this up
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/bullying-is-the-point
These people are bullies. The way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them and never, ever back down. This is how people should have repsonded to Donald Trump from the beginning. This is why one should never apologize when you get attacked by the right and it’s why I’ve never apologized for anything I’ve ever said when I’ve been attacked by fascist websites. It’s the only way to respond to them that doesn’t lead to more bullying and also that keeps your own dignity. These cowards in Texas don’t want to have the trials. They don’t want the constant publicity. So give them the trials and publicity if you can and are willing to take what is most certainly a very real risk. This is why Dr. Alan Braid is such a hero. He’s willing to take this risk and invited it. Good for him.
This is not to discuss the Texas abortion law, but to say that in this case, I think he’s most definitely right. And if one takes a look at his history.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/12/on-metaphors-and-violence
I had forgotten that he was from Springfield Or and was a student of Faith Zuranski and I think he was an undergrad when I was a grad student at UO.
This isn’t to say that he’s somehow justified, but it does help fill in the context.
I harshed on Loomis, so I should put this up
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/bullying-is-the-point
These people are bullies. The way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them and never, ever back down. This is how people should have repsonded to Donald Trump from the beginning. This is why one should never apologize when you get attacked by the right and it’s why I’ve never apologized for anything I’ve ever said when I’ve been attacked by fascist websites. It’s the only way to respond to them that doesn’t lead to more bullying and also that keeps your own dignity. These cowards in Texas don’t want to have the trials. They don’t want the constant publicity. So give them the trials and publicity if you can and are willing to take what is most certainly a very real risk. This is why Dr. Alan Braid is such a hero. He’s willing to take this risk and invited it. Good for him.
This is not to discuss the Texas abortion law, but to say that in this case, I think he’s most definitely right. And if one takes a look at his history.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/12/on-metaphors-and-violence
I had forgotten that he was from Springfield Or and was a student of Faith Zuranski and I think he was an undergrad when I was a grad student at UO.
This isn’t to say that he’s somehow justified, but it does help fill in the context.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet.
when you invent the internet, you don’t also invent a method of encoding all the world’s written languages on the internet because you’d never finish the internet part of the job.
that comes later.
Well, that latter category, think of the internet and how it makes it so English is the preferred medium. Or at least the Roman alphabet.
when you invent the internet, you don’t also invent a method of encoding all the world’s written languages on the internet because you’d never finish the internet part of the job.
that comes later.
Someone should use the TX abortion law to sue in-vitro fertilization companies for thawing/flushing unused embryos more than 6 weeks after they were fertilized.
Plus anyone that doesn’t want to pay their “freezer bill” for keeping the embryos on ice *forever*.
The TX GOP has just handed the world a big hammer: use it on them.
Someone should use the TX abortion law to sue in-vitro fertilization companies for thawing/flushing unused embryos more than 6 weeks after they were fertilized.
Plus anyone that doesn’t want to pay their “freezer bill” for keeping the embryos on ice *forever*.
The TX GOP has just handed the world a big hammer: use it on them.
Loomis is an idiot.
With all due respect, Donald, I disagree. Throwing the blanket of “moral clarity” over every act of violence is an act of intellectual violence.
The whole topic of “justifiable violence” is fraught with contradictions and tragedy. Most of us pick and chose a side. Inconsistency is built into the cake. The real moral problem is when that terrible decision is reached absent a moral calculus and a sense of real regret, or acknowledging responsibility.
Loomis is an idiot.
With all due respect, Donald, I disagree. Throwing the blanket of “moral clarity” over every act of violence is an act of intellectual violence.
The whole topic of “justifiable violence” is fraught with contradictions and tragedy. Most of us pick and chose a side. Inconsistency is built into the cake. The real moral problem is when that terrible decision is reached absent a moral calculus and a sense of real regret, or acknowledging responsibility.
ha ha. TX is dumb, and the GOP is dumber.
service your idiot master, Abbott. please him well.
ha ha. TX is dumb, and the GOP is dumber.
service your idiot master, Abbott. please him well.
bobbyp, I’m glad you highlighted that, it made me think about the language. Loomis is not, by any stretch ‘an idiot’, though it is interesting that I didn’t think anything about agreeing with Donald when he said that (and think that he has a point). Like I said, I think there are some things that explain his rage and his presentation on the blog, and it’s possible that he’s totally different if you were to meet him. (or maybe not, who knows?)
Now, I don’t think Donald is dumb for expressing his frustration with Loomis, he does seem like he is constantly looking for a fight. But I think that he brings out, in the bright light of day, some things that we might not wish to talk about. But you have to separate out that rage to get to it and sometimes, it is just too tiring.
bobbyp, I’m glad you highlighted that, it made me think about the language. Loomis is not, by any stretch ‘an idiot’, though it is interesting that I didn’t think anything about agreeing with Donald when he said that (and think that he has a point). Like I said, I think there are some things that explain his rage and his presentation on the blog, and it’s possible that he’s totally different if you were to meet him. (or maybe not, who knows?)
Now, I don’t think Donald is dumb for expressing his frustration with Loomis, he does seem like he is constantly looking for a fight. But I think that he brings out, in the bright light of day, some things that we might not wish to talk about. But you have to separate out that rage to get to it and sometimes, it is just too tiring.
Loomis is an idiot.
he’s a very specific kind of idiot. he’s smart, but he’s also hyperbolically intolerant of viewpoints that aren’t his own. and he loves to flatly state his controversial opinions as fact, knowing this will piss off some of his readers.
so maybe not so much an idiot, but a jerk.
and he’s a big part of why i don’t bother with LGM anymore.
[and i wrote that before clicking the link and seeing he’s at it again]
Loomis is an idiot.
he’s a very specific kind of idiot. he’s smart, but he’s also hyperbolically intolerant of viewpoints that aren’t his own. and he loves to flatly state his controversial opinions as fact, knowing this will piss off some of his readers.
so maybe not so much an idiot, but a jerk.
and he’s a big part of why i don’t bother with LGM anymore.
[and i wrote that before clicking the link and seeing he’s at it again]
But you have to separate out that rage to get to it and sometimes, it is just too tiring.
Nah. I find it bracing, but like they say, opinions vary. His take on good liberals putting their kids in “good” private schools as indicative of racism is an example of a discussion that is, IMHO, valuable to have…no matter how tiring.
As for “terrorism”, I tend to feel that is generally (note the term..not the same as “always”) in the eye of the beholder, and quite situational.* As a general principle it is to be condemned as beyond the pale, but context is important, too, and simply writing “terrorism” off to make a high moral point is, to me, not really getting to the heart of what is essentially a human tragedy…i.e., our apparently innate cruelty and insatiable need for dominance.
Thanks.
*I recall Camus having something to say about this…and lo! He mentioned Algeria from time to time.
But you have to separate out that rage to get to it and sometimes, it is just too tiring.
Nah. I find it bracing, but like they say, opinions vary. His take on good liberals putting their kids in “good” private schools as indicative of racism is an example of a discussion that is, IMHO, valuable to have…no matter how tiring.
As for “terrorism”, I tend to feel that is generally (note the term..not the same as “always”) in the eye of the beholder, and quite situational.* As a general principle it is to be condemned as beyond the pale, but context is important, too, and simply writing “terrorism” off to make a high moral point is, to me, not really getting to the heart of what is essentially a human tragedy…i.e., our apparently innate cruelty and insatiable need for dominance.
Thanks.
*I recall Camus having something to say about this…and lo! He mentioned Algeria from time to time.
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
Usually, it is an easy decision (peace, bro’), but not by any means always. It’s the “not always” situations that are intriguing. I rely on Clint Eastwood movies and cleek for guidance (/snicker).
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
Usually, it is an easy decision (peace, bro’), but not by any means always. It’s the “not always” situations that are intriguing. I rely on Clint Eastwood movies and cleek for guidance (/snicker).
Glad you brought up Camus, bobbyp, he’s one of my touchstones. Probably a good time to reread Les Justes…
Glad you brought up Camus, bobbyp, he’s one of my touchstones. Probably a good time to reread Les Justes…
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
It will be a tragedy if the Count’s words become prophetic. I really, really wish I was sure that it wouldn’t come to that. However, as things have developed, I still think it improbable, but not impossible.
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
It will be a tragedy if the Count’s words become prophetic. I really, really wish I was sure that it wouldn’t come to that. However, as things have developed, I still think it improbable, but not impossible.
Probably a good time to reread Les Justes…
give The Plague a try. it’s amazing how 1947 sounds just like 2021.
Probably a good time to reread Les Justes…
give The Plague a try. it’s amazing how 1947 sounds just like 2021.
lol, cleek. well done.
lol, cleek. well done.
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
We’ve had a violent riot that attempted to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power, and was prevented from doing so basically by sheer luck and the diligence of a handful of Capitol cops. We have a memo from the former POTUS’s legal advisor explaining how the VPOTUS could throw out electoral votes until his client prevailed, in spite of actually losing the election. And, the VPOTUS was pressured to do exactly that, and was apparently talked down from the ledge by Dan Quayle.
The phrase “If this actually came to pass” doesn’t quite capture the situation. A more accurate way to put it is “If this is successful next time”. Because these people are not done with this crap. And somewhere between a quarter and a third of the people in this country would support it.
So, think about it in those terms, and see where you land.
I don’t have an answer, personally.
If this actually came to pass, how many here would eschew violence under any circumstances?
We’ve had a violent riot that attempted to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power, and was prevented from doing so basically by sheer luck and the diligence of a handful of Capitol cops. We have a memo from the former POTUS’s legal advisor explaining how the VPOTUS could throw out electoral votes until his client prevailed, in spite of actually losing the election. And, the VPOTUS was pressured to do exactly that, and was apparently talked down from the ledge by Dan Quayle.
The phrase “If this actually came to pass” doesn’t quite capture the situation. A more accurate way to put it is “If this is successful next time”. Because these people are not done with this crap. And somewhere between a quarter and a third of the people in this country would support it.
So, think about it in those terms, and see where you land.
I don’t have an answer, personally.