by liberal japonicus
Another open thread. What I’m wondering about is the juxtaposition of the current fire/weather crises in the western US and the upcoming election. This Guardian article argues that the Dems are still not sure it is a crisis. My assumption is that talking it up when it isn’t an issue in the Midwest and the East is concern that it will be weaponized as an issue for the election.
I see a similar approach by Labour to the Tory admission that they are planning on breaking international law, albeit “in a very specific and limited way”. At a recent PMQ, Starmer concentrated on the failures of the UK testing regime, without a mention of law breaking. Of course, during PMQ, there were others to ask the question and there is no election in a month, but the problem seems similar: going after the other side over issues that can then be used to rile up the base. Curious as to what others think.
Also, if you are in any of the areas that are affected by the fires, if you have your own personal perspectives of what is going down, feel free to share them. Stay safe everyone.
I regularly point out that if the Dems win the Senate come January, it is probable that 15-16 members of their majority will be from the 11 western states currently on fire. (See today’s Inciweb page for just how much this is a western problem. The only fires outside those 11 are in Nebraska and Texas, are tiny, and are 100% contained.) The rest of the Party may not believe it’s a crisis; I can guarantee those 15-16 do, and no Democratic legislation passes the Senate without their votes.
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public lands for decades. I will be writing to my Senators (likely two Dems) in December demanding that they don’t vote for anything until Congress addresses that in a serious way. There’s no reason the bills can’t be ready on day one.
I regularly point out that if the Dems win the Senate come January, it is probable that 15-16 members of their majority will be from the 11 western states currently on fire. (See today’s Inciweb page for just how much this is a western problem. The only fires outside those 11 are in Nebraska and Texas, are tiny, and are 100% contained.) The rest of the Party may not believe it’s a crisis; I can guarantee those 15-16 do, and no Democratic legislation passes the Senate without their votes.
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public lands for decades. I will be writing to my Senators (likely two Dems) in December demanding that they don’t vote for anything until Congress addresses that in a serious way. There’s no reason the bills can’t be ready on day one.
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public lands for decades.
And what costs more – that or out-of-control fires? My guess is it doesn’t even make sense from a purely fiscal point of view.
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public lands for decades.
And what costs more – that or out-of-control fires? My guess is it doesn’t even make sense from a purely fiscal point of view.
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for
fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public landsa wide array of urgent needs for decades.Where to start?
The federal government has shortchanged its spending for
fire fighting and fire mitigation on the western public landsa wide array of urgent needs for decades.Where to start?
Seattle AQI is well north of 200. Not good.
So what do I see on FB? A winger absolutely losing it because Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan had the ‘effing nerve to close the city owned golf courses for a couple days.
It is to cry.
Seattle AQI is well north of 200. Not good.
So what do I see on FB? A winger absolutely losing it because Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan had the ‘effing nerve to close the city owned golf courses for a couple days.
It is to cry.
The GOP base has taken over their party. They have weaponized just about every political issue there is, and a few they just made up (Benghazi, war on Christmas).
If we fear to ‘weaponize’ global climate change then we might as well throw in the towel.
Pelosi and Feinstein notwithstanding, there are glimmers of political common sense amongst some of our better institutional Democrats.
The GOP base has taken over their party. They have weaponized just about every political issue there is, and a few they just made up (Benghazi, war on Christmas).
If we fear to ‘weaponize’ global climate change then we might as well throw in the towel.
Pelosi and Feinstein notwithstanding, there are glimmers of political common sense amongst some of our better institutional Democrats.
Seattle AQI is well north of 200. Not good.
Here (a couple dozen miles, and a couple of ridges, east of San Francisco) we’ve only had one day above 200. Mostly, we’re in the 170s**. Even though you can’t see anything more than a mile through the smoke, and stuff a lot closer is fuzzy like thru fog.
** But note, that’s the average across the whole day. Typically there are a couple hours in the early afternoon where we’re above 210.
Seattle AQI is well north of 200. Not good.
Here (a couple dozen miles, and a couple of ridges, east of San Francisco) we’ve only had one day above 200. Mostly, we’re in the 170s**. Even though you can’t see anything more than a mile through the smoke, and stuff a lot closer is fuzzy like thru fog.
** But note, that’s the average across the whole day. Typically there are a couple hours in the early afternoon where we’re above 210.
My assumption is that talking it up when it isn’t an issue in the Midwest and the East is concern that it will be weaponized as an issue for the election.
There may be a trade-off. If next year brings more of the same (which is probably the smart money bet), we could see Montana, Utah, and even Idaho getting a lot less red. Wildfires, you see, don’t much care about the virtue of your politics.
It also occurs to me that the winds in the US blow west to east. All this smoke may end up in the Midwest. Diminished somewhat, but enough to be a problem. Albeit, I suppose, not before Election Day.
My assumption is that talking it up when it isn’t an issue in the Midwest and the East is concern that it will be weaponized as an issue for the election.
There may be a trade-off. If next year brings more of the same (which is probably the smart money bet), we could see Montana, Utah, and even Idaho getting a lot less red. Wildfires, you see, don’t much care about the virtue of your politics.
It also occurs to me that the winds in the US blow west to east. All this smoke may end up in the Midwest. Diminished somewhat, but enough to be a problem. Albeit, I suppose, not before Election Day.
Just as an additional note, the evening weather forecast has been including AQI lately. I’ve seen several places in the Bay Area reporting Hazardous (i.e. AQI above 300!).
Just as an additional note, the evening weather forecast has been including AQI lately. I’ve seen several places in the Bay Area reporting Hazardous (i.e. AQI above 300!).
If we fear to ‘weaponize’ global climate change then we might as well throw in the towel
Sure, but in the context of winning the election, does that make this an issue for after the election or should people bash the Dems for not doing something now. Michael’s point about the number of members from the West and how it is confined to the West has me ask this.
Good news is this
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democratic-insiders-set-war-room-quickly-kill-filibuster-n1239920#anchor-NoforgivingfromDemocraticvoters
and it looks like a lot of western Dems are a part of that. Honestly, after seeing the way this admin has dealt with other disasters, I’m thinking the folks in the west realize that until there is a non-insane president, they are bascially on their own…
If we fear to ‘weaponize’ global climate change then we might as well throw in the towel
Sure, but in the context of winning the election, does that make this an issue for after the election or should people bash the Dems for not doing something now. Michael’s point about the number of members from the West and how it is confined to the West has me ask this.
Good news is this
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democratic-insiders-set-war-room-quickly-kill-filibuster-n1239920#anchor-NoforgivingfromDemocraticvoters
and it looks like a lot of western Dems are a part of that. Honestly, after seeing the way this admin has dealt with other disasters, I’m thinking the folks in the west realize that until there is a non-insane president, they are bascially on their own…
Friends in Portland tell me that although the fires aren’t that near to them, the smoke is so bad they’re having to wear masks in the house.
I see a similar approach by Labour to the Tory admission that they are planning on breaking international law, albeit “in a very specific and limited way”.
Given the vociferous objection to this proposal from many diehard rightwingers, and others on the Tory side, I’m guessing that Starmer is following the (disputed) Napoleonic advice: Never interfere when your enemy is making a mistake
Friends in Portland tell me that although the fires aren’t that near to them, the smoke is so bad they’re having to wear masks in the house.
I see a similar approach by Labour to the Tory admission that they are planning on breaking international law, albeit “in a very specific and limited way”.
Given the vociferous objection to this proposal from many diehard rightwingers, and others on the Tory side, I’m guessing that Starmer is following the (disputed) Napoleonic advice: Never interfere when your enemy is making a mistake
Tactics:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/12/1976880/-QAnon-cultists-spreading-false-claims-that-are-consuming-resources-needed-to-fight-wildfires
We have vast technological resources to find these QAnon republican conservative movement villains and apprehend and execute them.
Calling in false arson reports is a felony, is it not?
From the article:
“Claims that antifa was igniting fires were also sent by former Republican Senate candidate Paul Romero, whose tweet that Douglas County police had arrested “six antifa arsonists” has been repeated tens of thousands of times. Romero has repeated these claims to local radio and television stations, claiming that they are true, even as the county policy have repeatedly tried to explain that this is a sick fantasy with no truth behind it.”
Arrest Romero. Shoot him in the back if he runs like a black kid.
We are in a civil war already.
Tactics:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/12/1976880/-QAnon-cultists-spreading-false-claims-that-are-consuming-resources-needed-to-fight-wildfires
We have vast technological resources to find these QAnon republican conservative movement villains and apprehend and execute them.
Calling in false arson reports is a felony, is it not?
From the article:
“Claims that antifa was igniting fires were also sent by former Republican Senate candidate Paul Romero, whose tweet that Douglas County police had arrested “six antifa arsonists” has been repeated tens of thousands of times. Romero has repeated these claims to local radio and television stations, claiming that they are true, even as the county policy have repeatedly tried to explain that this is a sick fantasy with no truth behind it.”
Arrest Romero. Shoot him in the back if he runs like a black kid.
We are in a civil war already.
I believe many of the Yellowstone fires and elsewhere in 1988 were set by Republican operatives connected to Newt Gingrich to consolidate his power in the Republican Party.
Fact of the matter is there is no fact of the matter in America anymore.
Assert and conquer.
We’ve had good teachers in the subhuman conservative movement.
I believe many of the Yellowstone fires and elsewhere in 1988 were set by Republican operatives connected to Newt Gingrich to consolidate his power in the Republican Party.
Fact of the matter is there is no fact of the matter in America anymore.
Assert and conquer.
We’ve had good teachers in the subhuman conservative movement.
https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-mockingly-calls-climate-change-systemic-racism-sky
Carlson has a black cloud over his head.
https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-mockingly-calls-climate-change-systemic-racism-sky
Carlson has a black cloud over his head.
I’m in a decent place for Southern California as far as fires are concerned. We’re on higher ground about five miles from the Pacific and that makes a huge difference. The fires are well East of us and the marine layer is helping a lot with the air. Still, we have had a week of cloud cover and orange sunbeams and we and the cats are all coughing a bit from the air. The sun is just a sepia disk surrounded by haze, and everything from the laundry that dries outside smells of woodsmoke.
The threat of fire, though, has been on our minds for years. We’ve had a hike planned since 2016, but the threat of fire in the San Gabriels has been too high every time the weather and the calendar has aligned.
I’m in a decent place for Southern California as far as fires are concerned. We’re on higher ground about five miles from the Pacific and that makes a huge difference. The fires are well East of us and the marine layer is helping a lot with the air. Still, we have had a week of cloud cover and orange sunbeams and we and the cats are all coughing a bit from the air. The sun is just a sepia disk surrounded by haze, and everything from the laundry that dries outside smells of woodsmoke.
The threat of fire, though, has been on our minds for years. We’ve had a hike planned since 2016, but the threat of fire in the San Gabriels has been too high every time the weather and the calendar has aligned.
Climate has always been hostile to humans. Species, including humans, are not shaped by gentle nudges from their environment. Climate change just means that the nature of that hostility is changing somewhat.
Here is a review of three books that provide counter-arguments to the current climate change messaging.
“In the shadow of this summer’s coronavirus conflicts, the warring climate fronts keep sieging. The very same media outlets that are doing a tremendous job of exaggerating the coronavirus threat are keen to push a terrifying narrative that climate change constitutes a societal decline of civilizational proportions. The societal decline, which we urgently need to do something about.
Three major books released this summer by well-known climate writers push back against this narrative:
False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet
• Michael Shellenberger’s Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All
• Christopher Barnard and Kai Weiss’ edited book Green Market Revolution: How Market Environmentalism Can Protect Nature and Save the World (“GMR”)
These are not “climate deniers,” though writers for both The Guardian and the New York Times tried hard to brand them as such. All authors accept that climate change is real, man-made, and presents a net harm to the world. Many of them support proposals like carbon taxes and increased R&D for batteries and renewable energy – others even favor governments building infrastructure or financially assisting those most negatively affected by a harsher climate. “
Let’s Cancel Environmentalism: A Triple Review of Environmentalism’s Opponents
Climate has always been hostile to humans. Species, including humans, are not shaped by gentle nudges from their environment. Climate change just means that the nature of that hostility is changing somewhat.
Here is a review of three books that provide counter-arguments to the current climate change messaging.
“In the shadow of this summer’s coronavirus conflicts, the warring climate fronts keep sieging. The very same media outlets that are doing a tremendous job of exaggerating the coronavirus threat are keen to push a terrifying narrative that climate change constitutes a societal decline of civilizational proportions. The societal decline, which we urgently need to do something about.
Three major books released this summer by well-known climate writers push back against this narrative:
False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet
• Michael Shellenberger’s Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All
• Christopher Barnard and Kai Weiss’ edited book Green Market Revolution: How Market Environmentalism Can Protect Nature and Save the World (“GMR”)
These are not “climate deniers,” though writers for both The Guardian and the New York Times tried hard to brand them as such. All authors accept that climate change is real, man-made, and presents a net harm to the world. Many of them support proposals like carbon taxes and increased R&D for batteries and renewable energy – others even favor governments building infrastructure or financially assisting those most negatively affected by a harsher climate. “
Let’s Cancel Environmentalism: A Triple Review of Environmentalism’s Opponents
“The very same media outlets that are doing a tremendous job of exaggerating the coronavirus threat …..
I stopped reading right there.
On the other hand, Herman Cain is still tweeting, so something funky is up.
Market environmentalism I have absolutely no problem with.
But the market for such will be forbidden:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-25/the-government-wants-esg-out-of-pensions
I take little solace that Milton Friedman is now doing his part finally by pushing up daisies.
“Many of them support proposals like carbon taxes and increased R&D for batteries and renewable energy – others even favor governments building infrastructure or financially assisting those most negatively affected by a harsher climate.”
No one here that I know of is standing in the way of any of those measures.
I can’t think who is.
“The very same media outlets that are doing a tremendous job of exaggerating the coronavirus threat …..
I stopped reading right there.
On the other hand, Herman Cain is still tweeting, so something funky is up.
Market environmentalism I have absolutely no problem with.
But the market for such will be forbidden:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-25/the-government-wants-esg-out-of-pensions
I take little solace that Milton Friedman is now doing his part finally by pushing up daisies.
“Many of them support proposals like carbon taxes and increased R&D for batteries and renewable energy – others even favor governments building infrastructure or financially assisting those most negatively affected by a harsher climate.”
No one here that I know of is standing in the way of any of those measures.
I can’t think who is.
Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All
aka: I’m a lazy greedy fuck and don’t want anything to change, especially my bottom line. so suck it, future. IGMFY.
Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All
aka: I’m a lazy greedy fuck and don’t want anything to change, especially my bottom line. so suck it, future. IGMFY.
i don’t get the point of complaining that the out-of-power party hasn’t done enough.
want climate change action? elect more and better Democrats and quit complaining that today’s Dems haven’t solved everything yesterday with the unstoppable power of DOA legislation.
i don’t get the point of complaining that the out-of-power party hasn’t done enough.
want climate change action? elect more and better Democrats and quit complaining that today’s Dems haven’t solved everything yesterday with the unstoppable power of DOA legislation.
The extent to which media exaggerates nearly everything is a capitalist market phenomenon.
The government and the media never claim that a hamburger is world-famous and the largest west of the Mississippi.
No, they leave that to the private sector advertisers who pay the bills.
The government does not determine headline fonts.
The government does not mandate that every broadcast news item is led with the words “This may shock you …”
I agree though that much of American endeavor rests on a huge cloud of bullshit.
The extent to which media exaggerates nearly everything is a capitalist market phenomenon.
The government and the media never claim that a hamburger is world-famous and the largest west of the Mississippi.
No, they leave that to the private sector advertisers who pay the bills.
The government does not determine headline fonts.
The government does not mandate that every broadcast news item is led with the words “This may shock you …”
I agree though that much of American endeavor rests on a huge cloud of bullshit.
I bought a woman with large breasts, bleach blonde hair, and wearing a short skirt at a car show one year.
The car she was sitting on still runs pretty good too.
I bought a woman with large breasts, bleach blonde hair, and wearing a short skirt at a car show one year.
The car she was sitting on still runs pretty good too.
Climate has always been hostile to humans.
This is staight up nuts.
Humans have benefited from 10,000 years of stable, moderate climate. It has allowed us to change from scattered bands of hunter gatherers, to settled communities.
We’ll adapt to whatever the climate is in 100 or 1,000 years. But what that ends up looking like is anybody’s guess.
Climate has always been hostile to humans.
This is staight up nuts.
Humans have benefited from 10,000 years of stable, moderate climate. It has allowed us to change from scattered bands of hunter gatherers, to settled communities.
We’ll adapt to whatever the climate is in 100 or 1,000 years. But what that ends up looking like is anybody’s guess.
Climate change just means that the nature of that hostility is changing somewhat.
also, there’s the small matter of : we caused it.
Climate change just means that the nature of that hostility is changing somewhat.
also, there’s the small matter of : we caused it.
This is staight up nuts.
Imagine your comfort level in a New England winter without fossil fuels and the technologies they enabled.
Even though the past 10,000 years were more accommodating to humans than the preceding thousands of years, they were still brutal to the people who lived them. Just a hundred years ago deaths from weather and climate were 20 times greater than they are today in spite of the world population quadrupling during that time.
This is staight up nuts.
Imagine your comfort level in a New England winter without fossil fuels and the technologies they enabled.
Even though the past 10,000 years were more accommodating to humans than the preceding thousands of years, they were still brutal to the people who lived them. Just a hundred years ago deaths from weather and climate were 20 times greater than they are today in spite of the world population quadrupling during that time.
Imagine your comfort level in a New England winter without fossil fuels and the technologies they enabled.
therefore we should use fossil fuels forever and always.
Imagine your comfort level in a New England winter without fossil fuels and the technologies they enabled.
therefore we should use fossil fuels forever and always.
People lived in New England, in the winter, for thousands of years before widespread use of fossil fuels.
I think perhaps we need some calibration about what a “hostile climate” means.
“Nothing grows there because there’s no water” would be a hostile climate. A consistent temperature above about 120 Fahrenheit is a hostile climate. Regular catastrophic storm activity is a hostile climate. There used to be land here, but now it’s underwater, is hostile, if you plan to stay in the place that’s now underwater.
Humans are actually better equipped to deal with temperatures below their body temperature, than above. “Snows in the winter” is not necessarily a hostile climate. “You’ll get heat stroke if you go outside for more than half an hour” is a hostile climate.
We’re already starting to see temperatures above 120 F in some places. Densely populated places. If that continues, those places are going to become hard places for humans to live in.
That’s a hostile climate.
People lived in New England, in the winter, for thousands of years before widespread use of fossil fuels.
I think perhaps we need some calibration about what a “hostile climate” means.
“Nothing grows there because there’s no water” would be a hostile climate. A consistent temperature above about 120 Fahrenheit is a hostile climate. Regular catastrophic storm activity is a hostile climate. There used to be land here, but now it’s underwater, is hostile, if you plan to stay in the place that’s now underwater.
Humans are actually better equipped to deal with temperatures below their body temperature, than above. “Snows in the winter” is not necessarily a hostile climate. “You’ll get heat stroke if you go outside for more than half an hour” is a hostile climate.
We’re already starting to see temperatures above 120 F in some places. Densely populated places. If that continues, those places are going to become hard places for humans to live in.
That’s a hostile climate.
I’m reading Joan Dideon’s essays in “The White Album” at the moment and this one touches on things topical at the moment, including a subject of special interest to Michael Cain:
http://archive.pov.org/thirst/holy-water/
Written 43 years ago.
I’m reading Joan Dideon’s essays in “The White Album” at the moment and this one touches on things topical at the moment, including a subject of special interest to Michael Cain:
http://archive.pov.org/thirst/holy-water/
Written 43 years ago.
Nuclear or some other energy sources could take their place, but fossil fuels got us to where we are today. Otherwise, we would be living at best some kind of steampunk existence.
Nuclear or some other energy sources could take their place, but fossil fuels got us to where we are today. Otherwise, we would be living at best some kind of steampunk existence.
Even with rising temperatures, there are about 16 times as many cold-related deaths as heat-related ones. So far much of the increased temperatures have been at night, in winter, and the higher latitudes.
Even with rising temperatures, there are about 16 times as many cold-related deaths as heat-related ones. So far much of the increased temperatures have been at night, in winter, and the higher latitudes.
fossil fuels got us to where we are today
and now we know they can’t get us much farther.
libertarians’ need to defend the economic status quo is mighty puzzling.
just kidding. it’s not.
fossil fuels got us to where we are today
and now we know they can’t get us much farther.
libertarians’ need to defend the economic status quo is mighty puzzling.
just kidding. it’s not.
I’m willing to listen to arguments for nuclear power, Charles, but not denialism that claims it isn’t denialism.
Also, wrs.
I’m willing to listen to arguments for nuclear power, Charles, but not denialism that claims it isn’t denialism.
Also, wrs.
Good job, fossil fuels! And thank you!
Now, it’s time to stop using them, certainly at the rate we currently use them.
120+ F in the Middle East and American southwest.
110+ F in northern and southern CA.
Australia.
The overall global temperature is, if I understand correctly, about 1 degree C warmer than it was before the Industrial Revolution. Also if I understand correctly, current projections call for another 1 to 4 degrees increase C, most likely about 3 degrees.
Someone will correct me on the details, I’m sure.
Net/net, there are going to be places where a lot of people live now, which will simply be too damned hot for people to live in, going forward. And not all that long from now.
And that’s leaving out places that are likely to be underwater. Like, for instance, a lot of Bangladesh, where many millions of people live. And were many millions of people will have to leave.
We’ll adapt to it, however it’s going to be profoundly disruptive.
Nobody here is contesting the idea that our use of fossil fuels have made our lives much more comfortable. The claim is that continuing to use them at anything like the rates we do now will make significantly parts of the world uninhabitable. And will also disrupt established patterns for growing and distributing food. And will make water increasingly scarce in some places.
“Adapt” just means all of that will find some new point of balance. We’ll all achieve some new homeostasis.
Nobody knows quite what that will look like. It probably won’t be great, for a lot of people, without careful thought, planning, and co-operation.
Which is to say, it’s likely to be a mess, and a source of profound misery for a lot of people.
If you have a great free market solution, fine with me. I suspect it’s a problem that is not likely to be solved at anything like the necessary scale by purely free market mechanisms.
You and I will probably be dead before it gets really critical. Lucky us.
Good job, fossil fuels! And thank you!
Now, it’s time to stop using them, certainly at the rate we currently use them.
120+ F in the Middle East and American southwest.
110+ F in northern and southern CA.
Australia.
The overall global temperature is, if I understand correctly, about 1 degree C warmer than it was before the Industrial Revolution. Also if I understand correctly, current projections call for another 1 to 4 degrees increase C, most likely about 3 degrees.
Someone will correct me on the details, I’m sure.
Net/net, there are going to be places where a lot of people live now, which will simply be too damned hot for people to live in, going forward. And not all that long from now.
And that’s leaving out places that are likely to be underwater. Like, for instance, a lot of Bangladesh, where many millions of people live. And were many millions of people will have to leave.
We’ll adapt to it, however it’s going to be profoundly disruptive.
Nobody here is contesting the idea that our use of fossil fuels have made our lives much more comfortable. The claim is that continuing to use them at anything like the rates we do now will make significantly parts of the world uninhabitable. And will also disrupt established patterns for growing and distributing food. And will make water increasingly scarce in some places.
“Adapt” just means all of that will find some new point of balance. We’ll all achieve some new homeostasis.
Nobody knows quite what that will look like. It probably won’t be great, for a lot of people, without careful thought, planning, and co-operation.
Which is to say, it’s likely to be a mess, and a source of profound misery for a lot of people.
If you have a great free market solution, fine with me. I suspect it’s a problem that is not likely to be solved at anything like the necessary scale by purely free market mechanisms.
You and I will probably be dead before it gets really critical. Lucky us.
Sure, but in the context of winning the election, does that make this an issue for after the election or should people bash the Dems for not doing something now.
Given the existential importance of this issue, viewing in in the context of some kind of minor tactical political matter strikes me as not a good way to look at it.
But it is an age old question. Some here seem to argue that any criticism of any Dem for just about any reason is akin to some kind of political treason….well, except for the Dems they don’t like. Funny how that works.
I would posit that the push for better public policy comes from below, and that politicians are always looking for a parade to jump to the head of the line in. That is why some push…always.
Take, for example, the push to eliminate the filibuster as soon as the opportunity may arise (we both cited the same article-I’m crossing my fingers). This didn’t get traction due to the efforts of Diane Feinstein. But maybe now that there has been some pressure from activists, progressives, the unruly mob on the left, etc., perhaps she has rethought the matter. One can hope.
I fail to see how this can be so easily dismissed, and strikes me as fairly obvious. But whatever…..
Sure, but in the context of winning the election, does that make this an issue for after the election or should people bash the Dems for not doing something now.
Given the existential importance of this issue, viewing in in the context of some kind of minor tactical political matter strikes me as not a good way to look at it.
But it is an age old question. Some here seem to argue that any criticism of any Dem for just about any reason is akin to some kind of political treason….well, except for the Dems they don’t like. Funny how that works.
I would posit that the push for better public policy comes from below, and that politicians are always looking for a parade to jump to the head of the line in. That is why some push…always.
Take, for example, the push to eliminate the filibuster as soon as the opportunity may arise (we both cited the same article-I’m crossing my fingers). This didn’t get traction due to the efforts of Diane Feinstein. But maybe now that there has been some pressure from activists, progressives, the unruly mob on the left, etc., perhaps she has rethought the matter. One can hope.
I fail to see how this can be so easily dismissed, and strikes me as fairly obvious. But whatever…..
Do you have a few moments to talk about Our Lord and Savior The Invisible Hand?
Do you have a few moments to talk about Our Lord and Savior The Invisible Hand?
“Adapt” just means all of that will find some new point of balance. We’ll all achieve some new homeostasis.
Just to be clear, “adapt” for us as a species can also mean having half the total population of the planet die off. Hey, it’s an adaption to the new climate, so no need to worry about it, right?
I’d bet big bucks that Charles is confident that he, at least, will be among the elite who will manage to survive the die-off. Tough on those who aren’t rich, however. If it was him, his perspective would likely undergo an abrupt change. (No offense. The same could be said of pretty much devout libertarian.)
“Adapt” just means all of that will find some new point of balance. We’ll all achieve some new homeostasis.
Just to be clear, “adapt” for us as a species can also mean having half the total population of the planet die off. Hey, it’s an adaption to the new climate, so no need to worry about it, right?
I’d bet big bucks that Charles is confident that he, at least, will be among the elite who will manage to survive the die-off. Tough on those who aren’t rich, however. If it was him, his perspective would likely undergo an abrupt change. (No offense. The same could be said of pretty much devout libertarian.)
At my age, I may be lucky to survive COVID-19 and impending age-related maladies for another 10-20 years. We’re the same age by the way.
At my age, I may be lucky to survive COVID-19 and impending age-related maladies for another 10-20 years. We’re the same age by the way.
Some of the first places that will become uninhabitable for stretches of time appear to be parts of Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh. Not the heat alone, but the combination of heat and humidity. Sustained wet bulb temperature of 95 °F (~35 °C) is fatal even for fit people. A certain amount of that appears to be baked-in already, perhaps starting as soon as 2050.
When I was young and stupid, I once played golf (walking) when the temperature peaked at 114 °F, in sunshine. But the relative humidity was in the teens and I could drink a quart of water every couple of holes. Also, I was doing outside manual labor that summer and was acclimated. After the round it took a largish bag of potato chips to get over the craving for salt. I suspect that at my present age it would be a fatal exercise.
Some of the first places that will become uninhabitable for stretches of time appear to be parts of Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh. Not the heat alone, but the combination of heat and humidity. Sustained wet bulb temperature of 95 °F (~35 °C) is fatal even for fit people. A certain amount of that appears to be baked-in already, perhaps starting as soon as 2050.
When I was young and stupid, I once played golf (walking) when the temperature peaked at 114 °F, in sunshine. But the relative humidity was in the teens and I could drink a quart of water every couple of holes. Also, I was doing outside manual labor that summer and was acclimated. After the round it took a largish bag of potato chips to get over the craving for salt. I suspect that at my present age it would be a fatal exercise.
“adapt” for us as a species can also mean having half the total population of the planet die off.
Or, kill each other, fighting over access to things like water and arable land. Or, just a place to live.
Systems find balance. How they find balance is neither here nor there, to them. They have no intentions or preferences.
We have the gifts of agency and sufficient intelligence to reckon likelihoods. Whether things play out to our harm, and/or to whose harm, is to some degree up to us to choose.
“adapt” for us as a species can also mean having half the total population of the planet die off.
Or, kill each other, fighting over access to things like water and arable land. Or, just a place to live.
Systems find balance. How they find balance is neither here nor there, to them. They have no intentions or preferences.
We have the gifts of agency and sufficient intelligence to reckon likelihoods. Whether things play out to our harm, and/or to whose harm, is to some degree up to us to choose.
the generation-spanning aspect of GCC is one of the big reasons politicians (all over the world) aren’t treating it like an imminent danger.
but, then, all you have to do is look at COVID responses around the world – both from politicians, and from the people they lead – to see just how terrible people are at reacting to crises when there are financial incentives to ignore them. even as the US adds another couple of 9/11s to the death toll every week, the government essentially does nothing and countless citizens think it’s all a big hoax.
far too many people simply aren’t willing to make even the slightest sacrifice if they think it will cost them something.
the generation-spanning aspect of GCC is one of the big reasons politicians (all over the world) aren’t treating it like an imminent danger.
but, then, all you have to do is look at COVID responses around the world – both from politicians, and from the people they lead – to see just how terrible people are at reacting to crises when there are financial incentives to ignore them. even as the US adds another couple of 9/11s to the death toll every week, the government essentially does nothing and countless citizens think it’s all a big hoax.
far too many people simply aren’t willing to make even the slightest sacrifice if they think it will cost them something.
Some of the first places that will become uninhabitable for stretches of time appear to be parts of Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh. Not the heat alone, but the combination of heat and humidity.
For Bangladesh, the critical “humidity” is likely to be the fact that most of the country will be under water, thanks to rising sea levels. Nowhere to live; nowhere to farm. And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
Some of the first places that will become uninhabitable for stretches of time appear to be parts of Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh. Not the heat alone, but the combination of heat and humidity.
For Bangladesh, the critical “humidity” is likely to be the fact that most of the country will be under water, thanks to rising sea levels. Nowhere to live; nowhere to farm. And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
With regard to a virus, keep in mind that Mother Nature thinks killing off 98% of the human species, then repopulating with some nasty side effects while mutation and culling restore genetic diversity, is a fine strategy. Mother Nature has no interest in whether civilization survives or not. I, OTOH, have a serious interest in the survival of something that looks like contemporary civilization at least through my granddaughters’ lives.
As a point of reference, about 2% of the human species is inherently immune to HIV.
With regard to a virus, keep in mind that Mother Nature thinks killing off 98% of the human species, then repopulating with some nasty side effects while mutation and culling restore genetic diversity, is a fine strategy. Mother Nature has no interest in whether civilization survives or not. I, OTOH, have a serious interest in the survival of something that looks like contemporary civilization at least through my granddaughters’ lives.
As a point of reference, about 2% of the human species is inherently immune to HIV.
And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
When I want to depress myself, one of the things I think about is the likely response of the remnants of the US Navy when 50M Bangladeshis (over a period of years) in rusty sinking ships that have been refused permission to land elsewhere, get within a few hundred miles of the California/Oregon/Washington coast.
Assuming the expected deepening of the Sonoran and Chihuahuan deserts, the Army and Air Force may have already been practicing on Central American climate refuges.
And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
When I want to depress myself, one of the things I think about is the likely response of the remnants of the US Navy when 50M Bangladeshis (over a period of years) in rusty sinking ships that have been refused permission to land elsewhere, get within a few hundred miles of the California/Oregon/Washington coast.
Assuming the expected deepening of the Sonoran and Chihuahuan deserts, the Army and Air Force may have already been practicing on Central American climate refuges.
I don’t really get the “bash the Dems” instinct among some, but everyone knowns that already.
I don’t really get the “bash the Dems” instinct among some, but everyone knowns that already.
michael, i hiked shadow canyon, perhaps you know it, just north on 93 of eldorado canyon, and just south of boulder, last week, three miles straight up and then down, 95 degrees, it kicked my butt, but it seemed routine once i got back to the car.
there’s a 6 and recently a 9 in my age.
Everyone, the few on the trail, was wearing a mask, because colorado is cool.
michael, i hiked shadow canyon, perhaps you know it, just north on 93 of eldorado canyon, and just south of boulder, last week, three miles straight up and then down, 95 degrees, it kicked my butt, but it seemed routine once i got back to the car.
there’s a 6 and recently a 9 in my age.
Everyone, the few on the trail, was wearing a mask, because colorado is cool.
“I don’t really get the ‘bash the Dems’ instinct…”
You mean stuff like this: “It will be one of several or maybe many suggestions that we receive. The green dream, or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is, but they’re for it, right?”
That was Pelosi doing a little number on AOC back in 2017. So only certain Dems can criticize certain Dems in certain ways? The only legitimate left criticism is hippie punching?
I am sure you are aware that her tune, and Joe Biden’s as well (as shown by your cite) has walked back a good deal of this criticism since then.
This is a good thing. Would you not agree?
Thank you.
“I don’t really get the ‘bash the Dems’ instinct…”
You mean stuff like this: “It will be one of several or maybe many suggestions that we receive. The green dream, or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is, but they’re for it, right?”
That was Pelosi doing a little number on AOC back in 2017. So only certain Dems can criticize certain Dems in certain ways? The only legitimate left criticism is hippie punching?
I am sure you are aware that her tune, and Joe Biden’s as well (as shown by your cite) has walked back a good deal of this criticism since then.
This is a good thing. Would you not agree?
Thank you.
Remember Michael Flynn? When Barr’s Justice Department tried to drop charges (after a guilty plea), the judge appointed someone else to make the prosecution case. Now he’s done so.
With that in hand, I expect the jydge will rule against Barr. Then we’ll see appeals, of course. But it’s one more negative for Trump to fill the news. Unless, that is, Trump decides to skip the appeals process and just issue a pardon. Bad choice, but so Trump.
Remember Michael Flynn? When Barr’s Justice Department tried to drop charges (after a guilty plea), the judge appointed someone else to make the prosecution case. Now he’s done so.
With that in hand, I expect the jydge will rule against Barr. Then we’ll see appeals, of course. But it’s one more negative for Trump to fill the news. Unless, that is, Trump decides to skip the appeals process and just issue a pardon. Bad choice, but so Trump.
And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
Well, it’s not for lack of trying.
This is a genocidal nightmare in the making.
And it’s not like India is able to handle, in any sense, the resultant refugees.
Well, it’s not for lack of trying.
This is a genocidal nightmare in the making.
Everyone, the few on the trail, was wearing a mask, because colorado is cool.
Yeah, maybe 15 miles as the grackle flies from where I live. I repeat an oft-heard line from down at the state capital: “The eastern third of Colorado is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California.” In particular, urban/suburban California. In 2018, CO-6 in the eastern Denver suburbs hit the tipping point and the Republican incumbent went from a (roughly) +10% win to a -10% loss. This year, in CO-3 on the western slope the Republican primary voters rejected the Tea Party incumbent for a QAnon owner of a bar/grill where all of the staff are required to open carry handguns.
A couple months ago now I went to my Mom’s funeral in Omaha. Damn, they’ve got twice as much air and three times as much humidity as anyone needs. At some point my sister was watching me and asked what my respiration rate was. “At this altitude?” I responded. “Occasionally.”
Everyone, the few on the trail, was wearing a mask, because colorado is cool.
Yeah, maybe 15 miles as the grackle flies from where I live. I repeat an oft-heard line from down at the state capital: “The eastern third of Colorado is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California.” In particular, urban/suburban California. In 2018, CO-6 in the eastern Denver suburbs hit the tipping point and the Republican incumbent went from a (roughly) +10% win to a -10% loss. This year, in CO-3 on the western slope the Republican primary voters rejected the Tea Party incumbent for a QAnon owner of a bar/grill where all of the staff are required to open carry handguns.
A couple months ago now I went to my Mom’s funeral in Omaha. Damn, they’ve got twice as much air and three times as much humidity as anyone needs. At some point my sister was watching me and asked what my respiration rate was. “At this altitude?” I responded. “Occasionally.”
Well, it’s not for lack of trying.
Even if Bangladeshis aren’t Pakistanis, just being Muslims is doubtless enough for the current Indian regime.
I’m not sure Hinduism has an overall structured clergy (feel free to correct me on that), like Iran or Saudi Arabia have to work with. But Modi seems determined to rise above that handicap in developing, if not quite a theocracy, something rather similar. Maybe Netanyahu’s Israel is his model….
Well, it’s not for lack of trying.
Even if Bangladeshis aren’t Pakistanis, just being Muslims is doubtless enough for the current Indian regime.
I’m not sure Hinduism has an overall structured clergy (feel free to correct me on that), like Iran or Saudi Arabia have to work with. But Modi seems determined to rise above that handicap in developing, if not quite a theocracy, something rather similar. Maybe Netanyahu’s Israel is his model….
That was Pelosi doing a little number on AOC back in 2017.
And I care about Pelosi in 2017 why?
AOC has also made nice with Pelosi, walking it back a bit. And, yes, both are good things. They are learning!
That was Pelosi doing a little number on AOC back in 2017.
And I care about Pelosi in 2017 why?
AOC has also made nice with Pelosi, walking it back a bit. And, yes, both are good things. They are learning!
The eastern third of Colorado is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California
I sometimes think the Pacific Northwest is Vermont, with a longer growing season.
Could also be the other way around, I guess.
The eastern third of Colorado is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California
I sometimes think the Pacific Northwest is Vermont, with a longer growing season.
Could also be the other way around, I guess.
I sometimes think the Pacific Northwest is Vermont, with a longer growing season.
Interesting comment, since I live in Washington State, and Vermont is on my list of Possible Places to Retire to.
Vermont is a good bit colder, and considerably less populated. Those attributes are looking pretty good these days, as my state burns down, and the summers get hotter. (I hate heat. I’m not gonna be one of those oldsters who moves South for the warmth and sunshine!)
I haunt real estate websites, looking at houses all over the country. Another big difference between the PNW and New England is, in New England it seems most homes use oil to power their furnaces. The PNW uses electricity, mostly. Also, Vermont being more rural, more homes are on individual wells. It’s all very strange to me, and would take some getting used to if I move there!
I sometimes think the Pacific Northwest is Vermont, with a longer growing season.
Interesting comment, since I live in Washington State, and Vermont is on my list of Possible Places to Retire to.
Vermont is a good bit colder, and considerably less populated. Those attributes are looking pretty good these days, as my state burns down, and the summers get hotter. (I hate heat. I’m not gonna be one of those oldsters who moves South for the warmth and sunshine!)
I haunt real estate websites, looking at houses all over the country. Another big difference between the PNW and New England is, in New England it seems most homes use oil to power their furnaces. The PNW uses electricity, mostly. Also, Vermont being more rural, more homes are on individual wells. It’s all very strange to me, and would take some getting used to if I move there!
I think that Johnson’s government is really not understanding how it is playing with fire. The open, wilful breaking of the Withdrawal Agreement is not only going to cause a no-deal end to the transition. If the British don’t follow the Northern Ireland Protocol in good faith, there will be a hard border, because EU can’t allow Northern Ireland to become a route for smuggling into EU market. This will mean an Irish civil war.
If such happens, Great Britain can be quite assured that the European Union will support the government of Ireland. We will not be talking about trade on WTO terms, but about trade sanctions. Personally, I would be quite happy with a reinstitution of the Continental System. This time, we could make it work.
I think that Johnson’s government is really not understanding how it is playing with fire. The open, wilful breaking of the Withdrawal Agreement is not only going to cause a no-deal end to the transition. If the British don’t follow the Northern Ireland Protocol in good faith, there will be a hard border, because EU can’t allow Northern Ireland to become a route for smuggling into EU market. This will mean an Irish civil war.
If such happens, Great Britain can be quite assured that the European Union will support the government of Ireland. We will not be talking about trade on WTO terms, but about trade sanctions. Personally, I would be quite happy with a reinstitution of the Continental System. This time, we could make it work.
Of course Hungary and Poland could combine again to torpedo all unified EU actions. And, despite their own touted Roman Catholicism, they will rather side with BJ’s ‘who cares about treaties and obligations?’ than with their increasingly liberal co-religionists on the other island.
Of course Hungary and Poland could combine again to torpedo all unified EU actions. And, despite their own touted Roman Catholicism, they will rather side with BJ’s ‘who cares about treaties and obligations?’ than with their increasingly liberal co-religionists on the other island.
I’m often on sapient’s case so I should say here that I agree with the point about not worrying about previous spats, which are ancient history, as much as I think ancient history informs current situations. Not saying this about bobbyp, but too many people have used (and continue to use) this narcissism of small differences to undercut the progressive left.
I also think this is the Guardian laying a template for the UK left on top of the US left and it often leads them to misunderstand the situation.
I agree with Lurker that these seems like a huge miscalculation and I wonder if they are doing it to divert attention from the shitty job they are doing with COVID. As the commentary on this video of the Taoiseach pointed out, for Johnson and the Tories, everything is just tactics and they have no goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk9-nAgIFyw
I’m often on sapient’s case so I should say here that I agree with the point about not worrying about previous spats, which are ancient history, as much as I think ancient history informs current situations. Not saying this about bobbyp, but too many people have used (and continue to use) this narcissism of small differences to undercut the progressive left.
I also think this is the Guardian laying a template for the UK left on top of the US left and it often leads them to misunderstand the situation.
I agree with Lurker that these seems like a huge miscalculation and I wonder if they are doing it to divert attention from the shitty job they are doing with COVID. As the commentary on this video of the Taoiseach pointed out, for Johnson and the Tories, everything is just tactics and they have no goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk9-nAgIFyw
Tactics:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/pulling-out-all-the-cops/
Counter-Tactics:
Joe Biden has Roger Stone arrested and executed.
Tactics:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/pulling-out-all-the-cops/
Counter-Tactics:
Joe Biden has Roger Stone arrested and executed.
@CaseyL —
I haunt real estate sites too, episodically at least, mostly looking at places in Maine since both my kids are here and I doubt I’d move away. (But Ohio is a second, if remote, possibility since most of my siblings and their offspring are still there.)
Anyhow, this is a very recent article about things to think about when buying a house in Maine. Most of it won’t be new to you, and most of it applies to a lot of places, especially rural ones, including Vermont.
But the one I would highlight is snow removal, the level of need for which would probably shock anyone who doesn’t live in snow country. I had always lived in towns before I moved to rural Maine, so it took some education for me to realize how much of an issue getting the driveway plowed is. (Pro tip: preferably don’t buy a house where the snow slides off the roof right into the path of doors and garage doors! 😉
As to private wells — I don’t really know about Vermont, but I think it would be similar to Maine, where towns do have public water and sewer systems. Certainly all the places within my reach that have more than maybe 5-6K population do. But in rural places, if you have a private well, you probably also have private septic, which needs a bit of annual maintenance and should be checked as part of disclosures on a house that’s being sold.
There’s also the radon problem, which you can google. Very common in New England, but remediable. At a cost. Also arsenic in well water. I drink only bottled water, but I use the well water for everything else.
This latter kind of stuff doesn’t tend to show up on real estate websites unless you have a login to MLS or something that lets you see disclosures. (One of my kids has just been through the house-buying process…..)
And because I’ve just watched the effects in real time with my daughter, I’ll say: in Maine the housing market here is beyond insane right now, at least in the southern, more populated part of the state, but northerly is not immune. Pandemic effects apparently, and I won’t go on and on about it. But if it doesn’t break at some point, I can’t imagine I’ll ever be able to buy a place on my budget. I suspect Vermont is similar, but I don’t know that for a fact.
I would love to email with you about this if you’re interested, just for fun.
Consider Maine! It’s closer to the ocean!
P.S. Heating costs in Maine. Most people use oil here, for sure, but there’s a lot of variety, especially in newer homes. Some young friends of mine who built a house a couple of years ago have a woodstove and a heat pump (which of course uses electricity). I don’t know if they have a back-up generator, but a lot of people do.
@CaseyL —
I haunt real estate sites too, episodically at least, mostly looking at places in Maine since both my kids are here and I doubt I’d move away. (But Ohio is a second, if remote, possibility since most of my siblings and their offspring are still there.)
Anyhow, this is a very recent article about things to think about when buying a house in Maine. Most of it won’t be new to you, and most of it applies to a lot of places, especially rural ones, including Vermont.
But the one I would highlight is snow removal, the level of need for which would probably shock anyone who doesn’t live in snow country. I had always lived in towns before I moved to rural Maine, so it took some education for me to realize how much of an issue getting the driveway plowed is. (Pro tip: preferably don’t buy a house where the snow slides off the roof right into the path of doors and garage doors! 😉
As to private wells — I don’t really know about Vermont, but I think it would be similar to Maine, where towns do have public water and sewer systems. Certainly all the places within my reach that have more than maybe 5-6K population do. But in rural places, if you have a private well, you probably also have private septic, which needs a bit of annual maintenance and should be checked as part of disclosures on a house that’s being sold.
There’s also the radon problem, which you can google. Very common in New England, but remediable. At a cost. Also arsenic in well water. I drink only bottled water, but I use the well water for everything else.
This latter kind of stuff doesn’t tend to show up on real estate websites unless you have a login to MLS or something that lets you see disclosures. (One of my kids has just been through the house-buying process…..)
And because I’ve just watched the effects in real time with my daughter, I’ll say: in Maine the housing market here is beyond insane right now, at least in the southern, more populated part of the state, but northerly is not immune. Pandemic effects apparently, and I won’t go on and on about it. But if it doesn’t break at some point, I can’t imagine I’ll ever be able to buy a place on my budget. I suspect Vermont is similar, but I don’t know that for a fact.
I would love to email with you about this if you’re interested, just for fun.
Consider Maine! It’s closer to the ocean!
P.S. Heating costs in Maine. Most people use oil here, for sure, but there’s a lot of variety, especially in newer homes. Some young friends of mine who built a house a couple of years ago have a woodstove and a heat pump (which of course uses electricity). I don’t know if they have a back-up generator, but a lot of people do.
Part of me wants to think that Boris is working to convince enough voters in Northern Ireland that they would be better off in the long term outside the UK than inside.
Charlie Stross, who recently and reluctantly became a supporter of Scottish independence, has been muttering about Boris planning no-deal exit, then the SNP winning an even more massive majority in the Scottish elections in May, then Boris calling for a snap election on independence that he wants to lose.
Part of me wants to think that Boris is working to convince enough voters in Northern Ireland that they would be better off in the long term outside the UK than inside.
Charlie Stross, who recently and reluctantly became a supporter of Scottish independence, has been muttering about Boris planning no-deal exit, then the SNP winning an even more massive majority in the Scottish elections in May, then Boris calling for a snap election on independence that he wants to lose.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/09/12/the-gop-is-staging-chaos-on-the-way-to-a-coup/
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/09/12/the-gop-is-staging-chaos-on-the-way-to-a-coup/
Fuller Frum Atlantic piece on the Woodward-Trump deal.
As recorded, that reads like a cold-blooded confession that Trump intentionally concealed deadly knowledge at a time—February and March—when that knowledge could have saved lives. But you can reach that conclusion only if you believe that Trump knows things the way fully rational people know them: as statements about reality that exist independently from the speaker. Trump’s mind does not work that way. He does not observe the world and then use words to describe it. He speaks the words he wishes you to believe, and then trusts the world to conform to his wishes.
***
But despite the hashtag #TrumpKnew, Trump did not actually know anything. He said things to meet the need of the fleeting moment. In February, the need of the moment was to levitate the stock market. By mid-March, the need of the moment was to sound smart, aware, in the know. Two days before Trump’s headline-grabbing quote to Woodward, on March 17, Trump said virtually the same thing at a televised press conference. “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.” Woodward did not unearth some big scoop. Trump simply repeated for Woodward the same I knew all about it better than anybody message that Trump had already placed on the public record.
Of course I realise that not everybody agrees with this, or even is interested in the workings of what is laughingly called Trump’s mind. But I must say, I am interested. Trump is a scammer of such stupendous scale, that I can’t help being interested in how the grift to end all grifts (we must hope) comes to be.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/how-read-woodward-book/616318/
Fuller Frum Atlantic piece on the Woodward-Trump deal.
As recorded, that reads like a cold-blooded confession that Trump intentionally concealed deadly knowledge at a time—February and March—when that knowledge could have saved lives. But you can reach that conclusion only if you believe that Trump knows things the way fully rational people know them: as statements about reality that exist independently from the speaker. Trump’s mind does not work that way. He does not observe the world and then use words to describe it. He speaks the words he wishes you to believe, and then trusts the world to conform to his wishes.
***
But despite the hashtag #TrumpKnew, Trump did not actually know anything. He said things to meet the need of the fleeting moment. In February, the need of the moment was to levitate the stock market. By mid-March, the need of the moment was to sound smart, aware, in the know. Two days before Trump’s headline-grabbing quote to Woodward, on March 17, Trump said virtually the same thing at a televised press conference. “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.” Woodward did not unearth some big scoop. Trump simply repeated for Woodward the same I knew all about it better than anybody message that Trump had already placed on the public record.
Of course I realise that not everybody agrees with this, or even is interested in the workings of what is laughingly called Trump’s mind. But I must say, I am interested. Trump is a scammer of such stupendous scale, that I can’t help being interested in how the grift to end all grifts (we must hope) comes to be.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/how-read-woodward-book/616318/
https://crookedtimber.org/2020/09/09/budapest-or-should-that-be-beijing-on-thames/
A hard Brexit isn’t all they want.
There is only one thing I want entering Trump’s brain.
https://crookedtimber.org/2020/09/09/budapest-or-should-that-be-beijing-on-thames/
A hard Brexit isn’t all they want.
There is only one thing I want entering Trump’s brain.
i wonder if many of Trump’s base knows that he’s about to kill Social Security?
i wonder if many of Trump’s base knows that he’s about to kill Social Security?
Interesting comment, since I live in Washington State, and Vermont is on my list of Possible Places to Retire to.
The similarity I see between the PacNW and VT is the weird combination of libertarian hippie sensibility with a basic level of social consciousness and solidarity.
Vermont is really freaking cold in the winter, so if you want cold, they have it. Vermont is also really small, and very mountainous (although the small east-coast style of mountains).
Maine is pretty similar, but with probably a somewhat higher Trump factor, for lack of a better term. And Maine has a really beautiful seacoast to go along with really beautiful mountains, and large areas that are truly wild.
Maine also has actual cities, if access to some kind of city life is appealing. Vermont has… Burlington, which is basically a college town.
NH is right in between the two, but is more or less a different world from both.
As far as tactics:
There are two goals for anyone who is not in the Trump cult:
1. Remove Trump from office
2. Flip the Senate
Every other goal pales in comparison. Whether the (D)’s are sufficiently vocal about fires in the West, whether Nancy Pelosi and AOC are besties, whether Joe Biden is a political weather vane policy-wise, are all pretty much irrelevant, when compared to the urgency of the above two goals.
They are irrelevant, because they *will not matter* if the two goals named above are not achieved.
Biden is ahead in the polls, but the betting odds put the race for POTUS as a coin toss. Money talks louder than polls, so I am going with coin toss. Almost everyone who is likely to vote already knows who they are going to vote for, so the POTUS race is going to come down to:
1. GOTV effort
2. Preventing Trump and the (R)’s from FUBARing the vote
Getting people to actually cast their vote, and making sure the votes get counted, are the tactics that are going to matter.
The (D)’s have a reasonable chance of taking the Senate. The relevant tactic there is probably going to be $$$$ to the degree you have it to spare, and whatever you can do to help with ground game if you live in a state with a seat in play.
And don’t sleep on Doug Jones, his seat is at risk and he needs your help. Not enough to flip (R) seats, we need to keep the (D) seats we have.
Trump is going to do everything he can to fuck with the electoral process, and there is not always much folks can do about it. Lawsuits alone aren’t going to get it done. So there needs to be an *overwhelming* (D) turnout to kick his ass the hell out, beyond his ability to steal cheat and lie his way to a 2nd term.
And put whatever resources you can bring to bear on flipping every vulnerable (R) seat in the Senate.
Those are the tactics.
Every other thing is a second order priority at this point. We can, and no doubt will, worry about it all after November.
Interesting comment, since I live in Washington State, and Vermont is on my list of Possible Places to Retire to.
The similarity I see between the PacNW and VT is the weird combination of libertarian hippie sensibility with a basic level of social consciousness and solidarity.
Vermont is really freaking cold in the winter, so if you want cold, they have it. Vermont is also really small, and very mountainous (although the small east-coast style of mountains).
Maine is pretty similar, but with probably a somewhat higher Trump factor, for lack of a better term. And Maine has a really beautiful seacoast to go along with really beautiful mountains, and large areas that are truly wild.
Maine also has actual cities, if access to some kind of city life is appealing. Vermont has… Burlington, which is basically a college town.
NH is right in between the two, but is more or less a different world from both.
As far as tactics:
There are two goals for anyone who is not in the Trump cult:
1. Remove Trump from office
2. Flip the Senate
Every other goal pales in comparison. Whether the (D)’s are sufficiently vocal about fires in the West, whether Nancy Pelosi and AOC are besties, whether Joe Biden is a political weather vane policy-wise, are all pretty much irrelevant, when compared to the urgency of the above two goals.
They are irrelevant, because they *will not matter* if the two goals named above are not achieved.
Biden is ahead in the polls, but the betting odds put the race for POTUS as a coin toss. Money talks louder than polls, so I am going with coin toss. Almost everyone who is likely to vote already knows who they are going to vote for, so the POTUS race is going to come down to:
1. GOTV effort
2. Preventing Trump and the (R)’s from FUBARing the vote
Getting people to actually cast their vote, and making sure the votes get counted, are the tactics that are going to matter.
The (D)’s have a reasonable chance of taking the Senate. The relevant tactic there is probably going to be $$$$ to the degree you have it to spare, and whatever you can do to help with ground game if you live in a state with a seat in play.
And don’t sleep on Doug Jones, his seat is at risk and he needs your help. Not enough to flip (R) seats, we need to keep the (D) seats we have.
Trump is going to do everything he can to fuck with the electoral process, and there is not always much folks can do about it. Lawsuits alone aren’t going to get it done. So there needs to be an *overwhelming* (D) turnout to kick his ass the hell out, beyond his ability to steal cheat and lie his way to a 2nd term.
And put whatever resources you can bring to bear on flipping every vulnerable (R) seat in the Senate.
Those are the tactics.
Every other thing is a second order priority at this point. We can, and no doubt will, worry about it all after November.
there’s a lot of open space in and around the mountains of upstate NY, too.
there’s a lot of open space in and around the mountains of upstate NY, too.
JanieM and russell – thanks so much for your views and comments on New England!
JanieM: Yes, yes, YES! I would love to email with you about this! I’m not sure how serious I am – a move cross-country is a huge thing to consider – but I am very seriously considering an exploratory visit sometime next Spring, FSM willing.
Maine is indeed also on my list, though I have been warned that the biting bugs (black flies, skeeters, ticks) in Maine would drive me bonkers. (Not sure if living near water would ameliorate that.)
My email is celeichter AT gmail DOT com. Love to hear form you!
JanieM and russell – thanks so much for your views and comments on New England!
JanieM: Yes, yes, YES! I would love to email with you about this! I’m not sure how serious I am – a move cross-country is a huge thing to consider – but I am very seriously considering an exploratory visit sometime next Spring, FSM willing.
Maine is indeed also on my list, though I have been warned that the biting bugs (black flies, skeeters, ticks) in Maine would drive me bonkers. (Not sure if living near water would ameliorate that.)
My email is celeichter AT gmail DOT com. Love to hear form you!
Getting people to actually cast their vote, and making sure the votes get counted, are the tactics that are going to matter.
The (D)’s have a reasonable chance of taking the Senate. The relevant tactic there is probably going to be $$$$ to the degree you have it to spare, and whatever you can do to help with ground game if you live in a state with a seat in play.
My father used to say that everybody in the world ought to be able to vote in US elections, since the result affects the whole world. If there was a way for foreigners to legally contribute to individual races (as opposed to clandestinely and illegally, like Russia to Trump), you can be sure that many (including me) would. Any suggestions gratefully received.
Getting people to actually cast their vote, and making sure the votes get counted, are the tactics that are going to matter.
The (D)’s have a reasonable chance of taking the Senate. The relevant tactic there is probably going to be $$$$ to the degree you have it to spare, and whatever you can do to help with ground game if you live in a state with a seat in play.
My father used to say that everybody in the world ought to be able to vote in US elections, since the result affects the whole world. If there was a way for foreigners to legally contribute to individual races (as opposed to clandestinely and illegally, like Russia to Trump), you can be sure that many (including me) would. Any suggestions gratefully received.
There are two goals for anyone who is not in the Trump cult:
1. Remove Trump from office
2. Flip the Senate
Every other goal pales in comparison. Whether the (D)’s are sufficiently vocal about fires in the West, whether Nancy Pelosi and AOC are besties, whether Joe Biden is a political weather vane policy-wise, are all pretty much irrelevant, when compared to the urgency of the above two goals.
That statement should be sent (email, US Mail, whatever) to
a) every Democratic voter,
b) every independent / “no party preference” voter,
c) every thinking Republican voter**
The worst-case scenario this fall is a bunch of liberals taking the Trump-style petulant toddler approach of sitting out the election (or voting third party). I wish I was sure it won’t happen. But I consider that it was part of the problem in 2016.
** There are some of us. Far fewer, percentage-wise, than one would wish. But enough that they could make a difference for someone like Doug Jones. And the bigger the landslide, across the country, the better the chances that the Republican Party fights to make damn sure not to put up another Trump. Even getting the results in Wyoming down from 67% to, say, 60% could matter for that.
There are two goals for anyone who is not in the Trump cult:
1. Remove Trump from office
2. Flip the Senate
Every other goal pales in comparison. Whether the (D)’s are sufficiently vocal about fires in the West, whether Nancy Pelosi and AOC are besties, whether Joe Biden is a political weather vane policy-wise, are all pretty much irrelevant, when compared to the urgency of the above two goals.
That statement should be sent (email, US Mail, whatever) to
a) every Democratic voter,
b) every independent / “no party preference” voter,
c) every thinking Republican voter**
The worst-case scenario this fall is a bunch of liberals taking the Trump-style petulant toddler approach of sitting out the election (or voting third party). I wish I was sure it won’t happen. But I consider that it was part of the problem in 2016.
** There are some of us. Far fewer, percentage-wise, than one would wish. But enough that they could make a difference for someone like Doug Jones. And the bigger the landslide, across the country, the better the chances that the Republican Party fights to make damn sure not to put up another Trump. Even getting the results in Wyoming down from 67% to, say, 60% could matter for that.
[CaseyL — just saw your 12:37 and will send an email later; I’m going out shortly.]
I could write about this all day, if only as light relief from the other stuff, but as to the connection between Vermont and the PNW, Colin Woodard writes about it in American Nations. The book overall is a bit too slick, but if you take it with a grain of salt it’s fascinating and fun.
For one brief relevant factoid, note that Portland, Oregon, was named after Portland, Maine.
wrs, more or less, except the part about cities. If you think of a city as an entity like Seattle, SF, Chicago, Boston, Miami, Houston…never mind London or New York or Paris, then Maine does most emphatically not have cities. 😉
It has Portland, population < 70,000. But in fairness: 1) the metro area is more like half a million if you take in most of southern Maine and bits of NH; and 2) even if Portland is just a "toy city" (which is how I think of it ), it's a wonderful one. I don't know what the aftermath of the pandemic will be, but before this year Portland was foodie and microbrewery heaven, set in a stunning spot on the ocean, with mountains and seacoast within easy reach, and a vibrant, diverse community that passed its own gay rights ordinance ~1992 and has welcomed immigrants to the point where I once heard that there were over 90 native languages in the Portland public school system. On the other hand, housing is hideously expensive and getting worse....and the town is almost not navigable by car during tourist season in the summer. (Then again, I'm kind of cranky, so I'm not the best judge.) ***** Bugs: black flies are awful, but only for a few weeks in the spring. I think of them as something God made to remind us that nothing (even the month of May) is perfect. I live in a breezy spot, which nullifies them to some extent. But if someone told you only Maine has these critters … they were misinformed or pulling your leg:
Some of my worst experiences with bugs were on hikes in the Olympics and Cascades, so … I’m not sure Maine is any worse than anywhere else, on balance.
Visiting and traveling around is a good idea. I agree with russell that NH is its own thing and with cleek that there’s a lot of open — and lovely — space in upstate NY. I drive across far northern NE and then northern NY (either Adirondacks or near the St. Lawrence) on my slow trek to Ohio once or twice a year. Or at least I did pre-pandemic. Even just driving through these states and exploring back roads can give you an idea of how different they all are from each other.
[CaseyL — just saw your 12:37 and will send an email later; I’m going out shortly.]
I could write about this all day, if only as light relief from the other stuff, but as to the connection between Vermont and the PNW, Colin Woodard writes about it in American Nations. The book overall is a bit too slick, but if you take it with a grain of salt it’s fascinating and fun.
For one brief relevant factoid, note that Portland, Oregon, was named after Portland, Maine.
wrs, more or less, except the part about cities. If you think of a city as an entity like Seattle, SF, Chicago, Boston, Miami, Houston…never mind London or New York or Paris, then Maine does most emphatically not have cities. 😉
It has Portland, population < 70,000. But in fairness: 1) the metro area is more like half a million if you take in most of southern Maine and bits of NH; and 2) even if Portland is just a "toy city" (which is how I think of it ), it's a wonderful one. I don't know what the aftermath of the pandemic will be, but before this year Portland was foodie and microbrewery heaven, set in a stunning spot on the ocean, with mountains and seacoast within easy reach, and a vibrant, diverse community that passed its own gay rights ordinance ~1992 and has welcomed immigrants to the point where I once heard that there were over 90 native languages in the Portland public school system. On the other hand, housing is hideously expensive and getting worse....and the town is almost not navigable by car during tourist season in the summer. (Then again, I'm kind of cranky, so I'm not the best judge.) ***** Bugs: black flies are awful, but only for a few weeks in the spring. I think of them as something God made to remind us that nothing (even the month of May) is perfect. I live in a breezy spot, which nullifies them to some extent. But if someone told you only Maine has these critters … they were misinformed or pulling your leg:
Some of my worst experiences with bugs were on hikes in the Olympics and Cascades, so … I’m not sure Maine is any worse than anywhere else, on balance.
Visiting and traveling around is a good idea. I agree with russell that NH is its own thing and with cleek that there’s a lot of open — and lovely — space in upstate NY. I drive across far northern NE and then northern NY (either Adirondacks or near the St. Lawrence) on my slow trek to Ohio once or twice a year. Or at least I did pre-pandemic. Even just driving through these states and exploring back roads can give you an idea of how different they all are from each other.
the Republican Party loves Trump, top to bottom. polling is absolutely consistent about it. he gives voice to their collective id. he says what they think. if he loses, they’ll blame everyone but him.
it’s going to take more than one loss to get them to turn around. look at what happened when they lost in 2008 – the Party did its big post-mortem and learned that it was alienating everyone but racist white men. and what did it do as soon as it got the chance? it went all in on the worst piece of shit racist white man it could scrape up, and stood by him for four years.
the Republican Party loves Trump, top to bottom. polling is absolutely consistent about it. he gives voice to their collective id. he says what they think. if he loses, they’ll blame everyone but him.
it’s going to take more than one loss to get them to turn around. look at what happened when they lost in 2008 – the Party did its big post-mortem and learned that it was alienating everyone but racist white men. and what did it do as soon as it got the chance? it went all in on the worst piece of shit racist white man it could scrape up, and stood by him for four years.
it’s going to take more than one loss to get them to turn around. look at what happened when they lost in 2008
Sadly, probably true. But note two things. First, if it takes more than one loss, the initial step still has to be that loss. Second, the Democrats will then have to make damn sure that, in 2022, they don’t repeat the mistake of 2010. Don’t assume the victory in the presidential election means you can coast; it has to be a foundation to build on.
it’s going to take more than one loss to get them to turn around. look at what happened when they lost in 2008
Sadly, probably true. But note two things. First, if it takes more than one loss, the initial step still has to be that loss. Second, the Democrats will then have to make damn sure that, in 2022, they don’t repeat the mistake of 2010. Don’t assume the victory in the presidential election means you can coast; it has to be a foundation to build on.
It has Portland, population < 70,000.
Yeah, but Portland has pretty much everything you’d probably want from a city.
NH is its own thing
People in NH are very, very determined that Nobody Is Going To Tell Them What To Do Or How To Live, Dammit!!
People in VT and ME just mostly live however they like, without all the fuss about making big points.
Very different vibes. Mostly the same weather, though.
It has Portland, population < 70,000.
Yeah, but Portland has pretty much everything you’d probably want from a city.
NH is its own thing
People in NH are very, very determined that Nobody Is Going To Tell Them What To Do Or How To Live, Dammit!!
People in VT and ME just mostly live however they like, without all the fuss about making big points.
Very different vibes. Mostly the same weather, though.
AQI in Portland today has apparently been measured at 560, in one location. It’s amazingly bad over a large area.
AQI in Portland today has apparently been measured at 560, in one location. It’s amazingly bad over a large area.
AQI in Portland today has apparently been measured at 560, in one location. It’s amazingly bad over a large area.
I have friends on the West Coast, and am so anxious on their behalf.
One person I know – relative by marriage – is a Trump supporter, supposedly on the basis of opposing abortion. I’m sad for her that she’s going through this. I’m sad for expectant mothers (and their potential children) who are going through this. Everyone who is going through this – I can’t even imagine. It’s heartbreaking.
I just wish people who have certain priorities with regard to “life” would open their minds a bit. l
AQI in Portland today has apparently been measured at 560, in one location. It’s amazingly bad over a large area.
I have friends on the West Coast, and am so anxious on their behalf.
One person I know – relative by marriage – is a Trump supporter, supposedly on the basis of opposing abortion. I’m sad for her that she’s going through this. I’m sad for expectant mothers (and their potential children) who are going through this. Everyone who is going through this – I can’t even imagine. It’s heartbreaking.
I just wish people who have certain priorities with regard to “life” would open their minds a bit. l
Sorry for that extra letter at the end of my previous comment. Perhaps some will be happy to know that I’m trying to self edit, and failed to delete everything!
Sorry for that extra letter at the end of my previous comment. Perhaps some will be happy to know that I’m trying to self edit, and failed to delete everything!
Have relatives by marriage in a rural midwestern state that shall remain unnamed. One of them developed serious respiratory problems but refused to get tested until he was hospitalized. They both, of course, tested positive for Covid, though she remained asymptomatic. Neither one is telling anyone what the illness was and the asymptomatic one is carrying on as normal because, by her reasoning, she doesn’t have anything wrong with her.
The same reasoning involved here carries over for thinking about climate change.
——
I’ve been idly looking at the UP of MI on the chance that the pandemic damage to the economy gets bad enough to scupper even our employment at a major university (still only a remote possibility as they need us badly, but an ebb tide could ground all our boats). We’d have a decent cushion there even after buying a home, but finding employment would be a challenge and the culture shock would be profound after 30 years in the West and 15 in Southern California.
Have relatives by marriage in a rural midwestern state that shall remain unnamed. One of them developed serious respiratory problems but refused to get tested until he was hospitalized. They both, of course, tested positive for Covid, though she remained asymptomatic. Neither one is telling anyone what the illness was and the asymptomatic one is carrying on as normal because, by her reasoning, she doesn’t have anything wrong with her.
The same reasoning involved here carries over for thinking about climate change.
——
I’ve been idly looking at the UP of MI on the chance that the pandemic damage to the economy gets bad enough to scupper even our employment at a major university (still only a remote possibility as they need us badly, but an ebb tide could ground all our boats). We’d have a decent cushion there even after buying a home, but finding employment would be a challenge and the culture shock would be profound after 30 years in the West and 15 in Southern California.
After a week of AQIs in the 170s, I’m really looking forward to starting the weel in the 30s. Now I’ll have breath to pray aloud for rain. Too bad it’ll likely be another month before that happens.
After a week of AQIs in the 170s, I’m really looking forward to starting the weel in the 30s. Now I’ll have breath to pray aloud for rain. Too bad it’ll likely be another month before that happens.
I’ve been idly looking at the UP of MI on the chance that the pandemic damage to the economy gets bad enough to scupper even our employment at a major university (still only a remote possibility as they need us badly, but an ebb tide could ground all our boats).
I know a couple (somewhat second hand – have met them, but a close friend of mine really knows them well) who lives in the UP. One of the couple is quite content. The other is lonely as hell. Maybe they’ll have a lot of company soon!
I’ve been idly looking at the UP of MI on the chance that the pandemic damage to the economy gets bad enough to scupper even our employment at a major university (still only a remote possibility as they need us badly, but an ebb tide could ground all our boats).
I know a couple (somewhat second hand – have met them, but a close friend of mine really knows them well) who lives in the UP. One of the couple is quite content. The other is lonely as hell. Maybe they’ll have a lot of company soon!
I wonder.
The cult that is screwing us over: why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?
I wonder.
The cult that is screwing us over: why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?
why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?
Because, if you are ugly enough inside, it pervades everything you touch. See, for example: Trump, Donald J.
why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?
Because, if you are ugly enough inside, it pervades everything you touch. See, for example: Trump, Donald J.
Because, if you are ugly enough inside, it pervades everything you touch.
Hmmm. Good point.
Because, if you are ugly enough inside, it pervades everything you touch.
Hmmm. Good point.
Seattle AQI still above 200.
So, Casey, where in the 48th soviet of WA do you reside?
Seattle AQI still above 200.
So, Casey, where in the 48th soviet of WA do you reside?
The extent to which media exaggerates nearly everything is a capitalist market phenomenon.
The government and the media never claim that a hamburger is world-famous and the largest west of the Mississippi.
Our government claims on a regular basis that their interventions are ‘world beating’.
The extent to which media exaggerates nearly everything is a capitalist market phenomenon.
The government and the media never claim that a hamburger is world-famous and the largest west of the Mississippi.
Our government claims on a regular basis that their interventions are ‘world beating’.
Question for Michael Cain (or anyone else with more knowledge than me)…
It’s been a refrain for a number of years (that I can recall) that one of the problems with fire management is a seriously low level of controlled burning.
To what extent is this true – and to what extent is this a consequence of lack of government funding/action ?
Question for Michael Cain (or anyone else with more knowledge than me)…
It’s been a refrain for a number of years (that I can recall) that one of the problems with fire management is a seriously low level of controlled burning.
To what extent is this true – and to what extent is this a consequence of lack of government funding/action ?
slightly related is this, the use of the indigenous Australians and their knowledge about ‘cultural burning’, I read several articles about it, here’s one
https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-02-24/reviving-traditional-fire-knowledge-australia-fire-something-we-live
Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.
slightly related is this, the use of the indigenous Australians and their knowledge about ‘cultural burning’, I read several articles about it, here’s one
https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-02-24/reviving-traditional-fire-knowledge-australia-fire-something-we-live
Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.
“The cult that is screwing us over: why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?”
Pardon me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H59xSI3d4Vk
“Our government claims on a regular basis that their interventions are ‘world beating’.”
Yes, but the humans our government murders have eternal life …. like Herman Cain. So there.
Yet, the “beatings” will continue.
Fire:
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen
But:
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/why-prescribed-burns-don-t-stop-wildfires-20200122-p53tl9.html
Then, there are controlled burns by state and federal entities which occasionally get out of control and burn more than intended, including private property … and then all Hell breaks loose as government gets blamed even though it may well have been the fault of private contractors hired on the cheap, but that’s too subtle for gummint-hating Americans …. and then the conservative movement, not conservationists, or even very good conversationalists, by any means, despite ironic word similarity … goes after government with the same vociferous bullshit rhetoric they just got done using to condemn the LACK of fire suppression efforts … you know .. arson by the Deep State, or some such.
That’s in their spare time when they aren’t taking torches to Social Security.
We need an out-of-control infernal of the conservative movement first, and not even try to put it out with raw sewage, before anything can be done about anything.
And then, and I can no longer find the link, sorry, you have the phenomenon of private land owners surrounded by forests in the American West greeting fire crews and inspectors with guns drawn if the latter even merely request that the property owners try to protect THEMSELVES by mitigating fire hazard on their properties.
The Malheur debacle started years before with two cases of arson on federal land by the Bundy-related conservative movement:
https://www.hcn.org/articles/oregon-occupation-at-wildlife-refuge
I’m sure the tough guys aren’t wearing masks either.
And then there is the more general conundrum of folks with innocent faces moving closer to the inferno and demanding government services like fire fighting, while of course not wanting to pay the taxes incurred to do so:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/10/fire-western-mentality
https://www.hcn.org/articles/oregon-occupation-at-wildlife-refuge
“The cult that is screwing us over: why can’t they have beautiful dances like this? Or anything beautiful at all?”
Pardon me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H59xSI3d4Vk
“Our government claims on a regular basis that their interventions are ‘world beating’.”
Yes, but the humans our government murders have eternal life …. like Herman Cain. So there.
Yet, the “beatings” will continue.
Fire:
https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen
But:
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/why-prescribed-burns-don-t-stop-wildfires-20200122-p53tl9.html
Then, there are controlled burns by state and federal entities which occasionally get out of control and burn more than intended, including private property … and then all Hell breaks loose as government gets blamed even though it may well have been the fault of private contractors hired on the cheap, but that’s too subtle for gummint-hating Americans …. and then the conservative movement, not conservationists, or even very good conversationalists, by any means, despite ironic word similarity … goes after government with the same vociferous bullshit rhetoric they just got done using to condemn the LACK of fire suppression efforts … you know .. arson by the Deep State, or some such.
That’s in their spare time when they aren’t taking torches to Social Security.
We need an out-of-control infernal of the conservative movement first, and not even try to put it out with raw sewage, before anything can be done about anything.
And then, and I can no longer find the link, sorry, you have the phenomenon of private land owners surrounded by forests in the American West greeting fire crews and inspectors with guns drawn if the latter even merely request that the property owners try to protect THEMSELVES by mitigating fire hazard on their properties.
The Malheur debacle started years before with two cases of arson on federal land by the Bundy-related conservative movement:
https://www.hcn.org/articles/oregon-occupation-at-wildlife-refuge
I’m sure the tough guys aren’t wearing masks either.
And then there is the more general conundrum of folks with innocent faces moving closer to the inferno and demanding government services like fire fighting, while of course not wanting to pay the taxes incurred to do so:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/10/fire-western-mentality
https://www.hcn.org/articles/oregon-occupation-at-wildlife-refuge
I would mention global climate change too but we’re not permitted to because shut up money under Citizens United talks.
I would mention global climate change too but we’re not permitted to because shut up money under Citizens United talks.
“Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.”
As bad as the Brits have been to indigenous peoples, the US has been far worse.
In fact, one of the “list of grievances” in the Declaration of Independence was basically that the Brits kept their agreements with Indian tribes, and didn’t let the colonists run roughshod over them.
Genocidal from the beginning; you can look it up.
“Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.”
As bad as the Brits have been to indigenous peoples, the US has been far worse.
In fact, one of the “list of grievances” in the Declaration of Independence was basically that the Brits kept their agreements with Indian tribes, and didn’t let the colonists run roughshod over them.
Genocidal from the beginning; you can look it up.
Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.
Controlled burning under the conditions that prevailed before the Europeans arrived isn’t complicated. You just have to either let it happen or keep after it in areas where it didn’t occur naturally. Certainly in the West, those conditions largely no longer hold. You simply can’t do a controlled burn in an area that has ten times the natural stem density, and 80% of those dying or dead. Here’s an extreme case.
If you hike through the forested parts, you find a ton of downed limbs and trunks, brush, dead grass, etc. The fuel load is enormous. BLM and the USFS can only thin/clean so much land per year and make it suitable for ground fires again — tens of thousands of acres. Big fires are taking millions of acres per year. It’s not much of a plan, but burn it all down and hope for the best is about all we’ve got left.
Unfortunately, I think the US base of indigenous knowledge has suffered a much greater reduction than it has in Australia because of historical timing.
Controlled burning under the conditions that prevailed before the Europeans arrived isn’t complicated. You just have to either let it happen or keep after it in areas where it didn’t occur naturally. Certainly in the West, those conditions largely no longer hold. You simply can’t do a controlled burn in an area that has ten times the natural stem density, and 80% of those dying or dead. Here’s an extreme case.
If you hike through the forested parts, you find a ton of downed limbs and trunks, brush, dead grass, etc. The fuel load is enormous. BLM and the USFS can only thin/clean so much land per year and make it suitable for ground fires again — tens of thousands of acres. Big fires are taking millions of acres per year. It’s not much of a plan, but burn it all down and hope for the best is about all we’ve got left.
leaving this here as part of ObWi’s ongoing coverage of … systemic racism
leaving this here as part of ObWi’s ongoing coverage of … systemic racism
Oh, cleek. That can all be waived away with a few personal anecdotes. Pointy-headed Harvard academics and their “research” won’t cut it.
Oh, cleek. That can all be waived away with a few personal anecdotes. Pointy-headed Harvard academics and their “research” won’t cut it.
This guy’s Palantir Corp is a about to go public in one of the largest public offerings in history:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/peter-thiel-donald-trump-white-nationalist-support
Palantir does very sophisticated data tracking and analysis and has a growing US government clientele, thanks to Trump and Citizens’ United.
I wonder what color the people are whose data will be gathered and made even more systemic.
He’s a gay-conservative.
You can tell he hates some group or other, actually several, led by the Chinese, only by his identity politics to the right of the hyphen.
Just as many black-conservatives hate gay folks and some Jews.
Jewish-conservatives hate Palestinians and blacks.
Female-conservatives generally follow their conservative husbands’ leads regarding who they hate and now in some cases, they beat them to it.
Chinese-conservatives are being trained to hate themselves.
White male-conservatives hate everyone, especially hyphens.
This guy’s Palantir Corp is a about to go public in one of the largest public offerings in history:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/peter-thiel-donald-trump-white-nationalist-support
Palantir does very sophisticated data tracking and analysis and has a growing US government clientele, thanks to Trump and Citizens’ United.
I wonder what color the people are whose data will be gathered and made even more systemic.
He’s a gay-conservative.
You can tell he hates some group or other, actually several, led by the Chinese, only by his identity politics to the right of the hyphen.
Just as many black-conservatives hate gay folks and some Jews.
Jewish-conservatives hate Palestinians and blacks.
Female-conservatives generally follow their conservative husbands’ leads regarding who they hate and now in some cases, they beat them to it.
Chinese-conservatives are being trained to hate themselves.
White male-conservatives hate everyone, especially hyphens.
It’s been a refrain for a number of years (that I can recall) that one of the problems with fire management is a seriously low level of controlled burning.
To what extent is this true – and to what extent is this a consequence of lack of government funding/action ?
Definitely. Controlled burns, when they happen, at minimum make it easier to control those fires which do break out. Think of them as semi-completed firebreaks; far less work to establish than on unburned ground. And typically wider, too, which makes them more effective.
As a general rule, it is expected that the government will be responsible for doing control burns. Not least because huge sections of the West are National Forests, state or national parks, or otherwise government owned. Plus, to do a deliberate burn on private property frequently requires a government (usually local fire district) permit. Generally only available when the vegetation is still wet enough that it won’t run wild — which is to say, when it’s hard to get it to burn at all, unless you use an accelerant which is also not allowed.
Plus, as Michael Cain notes, there are liability issues if it gets away. And those weigh even more heavily on private owners.
It’s been a refrain for a number of years (that I can recall) that one of the problems with fire management is a seriously low level of controlled burning.
To what extent is this true – and to what extent is this a consequence of lack of government funding/action ?
Definitely. Controlled burns, when they happen, at minimum make it easier to control those fires which do break out. Think of them as semi-completed firebreaks; far less work to establish than on unburned ground. And typically wider, too, which makes them more effective.
As a general rule, it is expected that the government will be responsible for doing control burns. Not least because huge sections of the West are National Forests, state or national parks, or otherwise government owned. Plus, to do a deliberate burn on private property frequently requires a government (usually local fire district) permit. Generally only available when the vegetation is still wet enough that it won’t run wild — which is to say, when it’s hard to get it to burn at all, unless you use an accelerant which is also not allowed.
Plus, as Michael Cain notes, there are liability issues if it gets away. And those weigh even more heavily on private owners.
Tactics:
https://www.mediamatters.org/mark-levin/mark-levin-trump-will-have-use-insurrection-act-put-down-enemy
https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-program-suggests-vigilantes-are-needed-segment-promoted-warnings
The smaller government gets, the more guns we need.
Tactics:
https://www.mediamatters.org/mark-levin/mark-levin-trump-will-have-use-insurrection-act-put-down-enemy
https://www.mediamatters.org/sinclair-broadcast-group/sinclair-program-suggests-vigilantes-are-needed-segment-promoted-warnings
The smaller government gets, the more guns we need.
so much Marxism
so much Marxism
I worked in public information in the federal government a long time ago for a group of weather scientists.
I don’t recall staging a coup from my desk and telling THEM what to communicate to the public.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34014443/trump-appoint-climate-denier-noaa/
There will be savage violence.
I worked in public information in the federal government a long time ago for a group of weather scientists.
I don’t recall staging a coup from my desk and telling THEM what to communicate to the public.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34014443/trump-appoint-climate-denier-noaa/
There will be savage violence.
I don’t recall staging a coup from my desk and telling THEM what to communicate to the public.
I’m really hoping that the scientific (and other) expertise which is still left in the Federal agencies will hunker down and hang on until we see whether Trump is going. Because replacing them would be a nightmare. Actually, just replacing those who have already left will be a nightmare.
I don’t recall staging a coup from my desk and telling THEM what to communicate to the public.
I’m really hoping that the scientific (and other) expertise which is still left in the Federal agencies will hunker down and hang on until we see whether Trump is going. Because replacing them would be a nightmare. Actually, just replacing those who have already left will be a nightmare.
bobbyp So, Casey, where in the 48th soviet of WA do you reside?
I’m in the north end of town, a few blocks west of Northgate Mall.
bobbyp So, Casey, where in the 48th soviet of WA do you reside?
I’m in the north end of town, a few blocks west of Northgate Mall.
LJ, regarding the narcissism of small differences, sorry, but no. That is a very dismissive attitude to take.
I want Trump out. There is a coalition, hopefully large enough, to get him out. It is unstable and will collapse five minutes after Trump is dragged out of the WH. It will collapse because a lot of people who don’t agree on much very much agree that Trump has to go.
Here is a link to a difference of opinion between “ progressives”
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1305019586354479108
A lot of people don’t like Max Blumenthal, but fortunately I don’t care since the argument stands on its own
Richard Nephew, the subject of criticism, popped up and posted this link—
https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/sanctions-blog-columbia-s-center-global-energy-policy-post-six
To me his argument is sociopathic. This is not a small difference. Neither was Yemen. In 2015- 2016 Democrats were split. This is what they were split on—
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/us-war-crimes-yemen-saudi-arabia.html
After it became Trump’s war they eventually united against it, but it took people arguing and denouncing and Khashoggi’s murder to get to that point and currently the death toll ( cited in a recent Brown University study on refugees) is 250,000.
Trump has to be removed because while this 280 lb toddler is in office the country spirals down the drain, but once things get back to “normal” people will still disagree on countless issues. These are not minor issues. I hope Biden becomes the next FDR on domestic policy. I doubt it, but maybe he will surprise me. On foreign policy I am not optimistic.
LJ, regarding the narcissism of small differences, sorry, but no. That is a very dismissive attitude to take.
I want Trump out. There is a coalition, hopefully large enough, to get him out. It is unstable and will collapse five minutes after Trump is dragged out of the WH. It will collapse because a lot of people who don’t agree on much very much agree that Trump has to go.
Here is a link to a difference of opinion between “ progressives”
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1305019586354479108
A lot of people don’t like Max Blumenthal, but fortunately I don’t care since the argument stands on its own
Richard Nephew, the subject of criticism, popped up and posted this link—
https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/sanctions-blog-columbia-s-center-global-energy-policy-post-six
To me his argument is sociopathic. This is not a small difference. Neither was Yemen. In 2015- 2016 Democrats were split. This is what they were split on—
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/us-war-crimes-yemen-saudi-arabia.html
After it became Trump’s war they eventually united against it, but it took people arguing and denouncing and Khashoggi’s murder to get to that point and currently the death toll ( cited in a recent Brown University study on refugees) is 250,000.
Trump has to be removed because while this 280 lb toddler is in office the country spirals down the drain, but once things get back to “normal” people will still disagree on countless issues. These are not minor issues. I hope Biden becomes the next FDR on domestic policy. I doubt it, but maybe he will surprise me. On foreign policy I am not optimistic.
An interesting discussion to have might be to compare Florida’s relatively successful use of controlled burns with much less successful programs in the West. If I were handing it out as a class assignment, I might suggest that differences worth looking at should include:
(1) Florida’s burns are largely on private land with local decisions about the value; the West’s burns would largely be on public lands, with distant decisions (ie, Washington, DC).
(2) The general scale of the problem. The USFS manages ~190,000,000 acres of national forest land, the very large majority of it somewhere in the West. This is approximately 4.5 times the entire area of Florida, most of which is not at risk of wildfire.
(3) Terrain. The highest point in Florida is 345 feet above sea level. My not-particularly-rugged county in Colorado has a min-to-max elevation difference of a bit over 6,500 feet. The county we’re moving to next month is about 8,500 feet. LA County in California is about 10,000 feet.
(4) Climate. Florida averages 54 inches of precipitation per year. Colorado averages 17. Arizona, which typically burns more than Colorado, averages 14.
An interesting discussion to have might be to compare Florida’s relatively successful use of controlled burns with much less successful programs in the West. If I were handing it out as a class assignment, I might suggest that differences worth looking at should include:
(1) Florida’s burns are largely on private land with local decisions about the value; the West’s burns would largely be on public lands, with distant decisions (ie, Washington, DC).
(2) The general scale of the problem. The USFS manages ~190,000,000 acres of national forest land, the very large majority of it somewhere in the West. This is approximately 4.5 times the entire area of Florida, most of which is not at risk of wildfire.
(3) Terrain. The highest point in Florida is 345 feet above sea level. My not-particularly-rugged county in Colorado has a min-to-max elevation difference of a bit over 6,500 feet. The county we’re moving to next month is about 8,500 feet. LA County in California is about 10,000 feet.
(4) Climate. Florida averages 54 inches of precipitation per year. Colorado averages 17. Arizona, which typically burns more than Colorado, averages 14.
Climate. Florida averages 54 inches of precipitation per year. Colorado averages 17. Arizona, which typically burns more than Colorado, averages 14.
And those averages are trending downward.
Climate. Florida averages 54 inches of precipitation per year. Colorado averages 17. Arizona, which typically burns more than Colorado, averages 14.
And those averages are trending downward.
I’m not as far from Donald, policy wise, as one might otherwise believe. It’s why, no matter what the mainstream Democrats I know may say otherwise, I really cannot stomach the Clintons. Their accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs.
I mostly want what Donald wants for outcomes. I’m just not sure how to get there with the institutions we have, and I’m not sure how to transform our institutions quickly without risking a collapse or a backlash that takes the whole thing down and leaves us worse off on every matter of consequence.
So I’m stuck on the slow and low while a lot of those big problems, like ecological collapse, race on ahead, hoping that mitigation might do some small good.
I’m not as far from Donald, policy wise, as one might otherwise believe. It’s why, no matter what the mainstream Democrats I know may say otherwise, I really cannot stomach the Clintons. Their accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs.
I mostly want what Donald wants for outcomes. I’m just not sure how to get there with the institutions we have, and I’m not sure how to transform our institutions quickly without risking a collapse or a backlash that takes the whole thing down and leaves us worse off on every matter of consequence.
So I’m stuck on the slow and low while a lot of those big problems, like ecological collapse, race on ahead, hoping that mitigation might do some small good.
LJ, regarding the narcissism of small differences, sorry, but no. That is a very dismissive attitude to take.
You’ll have to tell me what I am dismissing before I can agree or disagree. I used that phrase because, it seems to me, that the left has, long before any of us were even here, always been fighting itself.
LJ, regarding the narcissism of small differences, sorry, but no. That is a very dismissive attitude to take.
You’ll have to tell me what I am dismissing before I can agree or disagree. I used that phrase because, it seems to me, that the left has, long before any of us were even here, always been fighting itself.
Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.
nous: [“The Clintons'”] accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs.
Really? Please explain. And also discuss context, and in what world your favorite policies would have been implemented.
Unfortunately, we live in a country with a lot of people, many of whom are not left-wing or even centrist. Our system of government (even when it’s working kind of well) requires compromise. So, like explain yourself and how we’re going to get to your Nirvana.
Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.
nous: [“The Clintons'”] accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs.
Really? Please explain. And also discuss context, and in what world your favorite policies would have been implemented.
Unfortunately, we live in a country with a lot of people, many of whom are not left-wing or even centrist. Our system of government (even when it’s working kind of well) requires compromise. So, like explain yourself and how we’re going to get to your Nirvana.
There was a post (and interview) on LMG today about splitting up the country, one of my most hated scenarios, and the comments point out why this is true.
But sure, if nous and Donald and other likeminded people were to start their own country, inviting only the people who saw things their way, they could totally do whatever they thought would be the moral high ground. And if that meant living off whatever land they had, and maybe starving or maybe not, that would be a thing. Completely possible to live one’s life in whatever moral universe you want to live in.
Sadly, in supporting local restaurants, I bring home plastic. Plastic is bad! Every single decision we make has some kind of consequence, sometimes horrible. Context.
There was a post (and interview) on LMG today about splitting up the country, one of my most hated scenarios, and the comments point out why this is true.
But sure, if nous and Donald and other likeminded people were to start their own country, inviting only the people who saw things their way, they could totally do whatever they thought would be the moral high ground. And if that meant living off whatever land they had, and maybe starving or maybe not, that would be a thing. Completely possible to live one’s life in whatever moral universe you want to live in.
Sadly, in supporting local restaurants, I bring home plastic. Plastic is bad! Every single decision we make has some kind of consequence, sometimes horrible. Context.
nous: [“The Clintons'”] accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs
It seems to me that it’s useful to look at what realistic alternatives were on offer at the time. That is, not what would have been ideal, but what might reasonably have been expected otherwise. For example, the alternative to Bill Clinton was, initially, Bush I. Would you have preferred that? *I* did, at the time, but did you? Because that was the only real option — IMHO Perot could, and did, impact the result, but had no realistic chance of winning.
As for the Clintons flaunting their accomplishments, what would you have them do? Go with sack cloth and ashes because they didn’t spend energy on things that would never have gotten past Gingrich? Sure, there is a time to fight on principle, knowing that you’ll lose. But was this one? Realizing that a couple of those lost causes could well have put Bob Dole in the White House. (Who I preferred to Clinton, but I doubt you did.) Admittedly, Dole winning in 1996 would have allowed us to avoid Bush II — but that’s 20/20 hindsight.
nous: [“The Clintons'”] accomplishments, large as they were, came with a huge cost to a lot of people on the margins of survival both here and around the world, and I don’t like the way that they wore those decisions like personal policy triumphs
It seems to me that it’s useful to look at what realistic alternatives were on offer at the time. That is, not what would have been ideal, but what might reasonably have been expected otherwise. For example, the alternative to Bill Clinton was, initially, Bush I. Would you have preferred that? *I* did, at the time, but did you? Because that was the only real option — IMHO Perot could, and did, impact the result, but had no realistic chance of winning.
As for the Clintons flaunting their accomplishments, what would you have them do? Go with sack cloth and ashes because they didn’t spend energy on things that would never have gotten past Gingrich? Sure, there is a time to fight on principle, knowing that you’ll lose. But was this one? Realizing that a couple of those lost causes could well have put Bob Dole in the White House. (Who I preferred to Clinton, but I doubt you did.) Admittedly, Dole winning in 1996 would have allowed us to avoid Bush II — but that’s 20/20 hindsight.
Thanks wj.
Neither Donald nor nous will answer right away.
Given a purist scenario of what we all want? Sure! We want peace, human rights everywhere, multiculturalism (which doesn’t always jive with human rights everywhere, but we’re looking at Nirvana, so whatever), food, shelter and health care for all.
I want all of those things for everyone, equally, everywhere.
How’re you gonna get there? That’s the weird part. That’s the hard part. That’s the part that takes time, compromise, and sacrifice (hard sell).
Thanks wj.
Neither Donald nor nous will answer right away.
Given a purist scenario of what we all want? Sure! We want peace, human rights everywhere, multiculturalism (which doesn’t always jive with human rights everywhere, but we’re looking at Nirvana, so whatever), food, shelter and health care for all.
I want all of those things for everyone, equally, everywhere.
How’re you gonna get there? That’s the weird part. That’s the hard part. That’s the part that takes time, compromise, and sacrifice (hard sell).
Oh, forgot about climate! Yeah. Forgot about that.
Oh, forgot about climate! Yeah. Forgot about that.
Tactic:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/twisted-obsessive/
November 4 is going to be so much fun.
Tactic:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/twisted-obsessive/
November 4 is going to be so much fun.
Nope. I will answer right away. I would have had the Clintons acknowledge the harms and articulate the ways in which the views of the times were skewed and harmful in the interest of actually changing the narrative. They were always exploiters of the Overton Window, not resisters of the rightward drag.
I think Obama was always better at managing the narrative of what was possible while focusing on what could be possible. The Clintons never made us better.
And never mind the things they would never have gotten past Gingrich, I’m concerned about things like how Kosovo was largely a shitshow that killed more innocent people than the KLA. Kosovo was the Clinton’s Yemen, and they entered into it with no more concern than did W. in Iraq.
I am glad they were in charge rather than Gingrich and Hastert and that bunch. But that is a low fucking bar and they were merely a slowing of our national descent.
Nope. I will answer right away. I would have had the Clintons acknowledge the harms and articulate the ways in which the views of the times were skewed and harmful in the interest of actually changing the narrative. They were always exploiters of the Overton Window, not resisters of the rightward drag.
I think Obama was always better at managing the narrative of what was possible while focusing on what could be possible. The Clintons never made us better.
And never mind the things they would never have gotten past Gingrich, I’m concerned about things like how Kosovo was largely a shitshow that killed more innocent people than the KLA. Kosovo was the Clinton’s Yemen, and they entered into it with no more concern than did W. in Iraq.
I am glad they were in charge rather than Gingrich and Hastert and that bunch. But that is a low fucking bar and they were merely a slowing of our national descent.
Pathetic response, nous. Very nonspecific. But good on you for responding at all!
My Bosnian friends (now American citizens) love “the Clintons”. Bill Clinton saved their lives. But you’re still not taking account the context, are you? Clinton was vilified for taking on the Yugoslav war.
I am glad they were in charge rather than Gingrich and Hastert and that bunch.
Hahahaha. Yeah, me too. But they had some power, no? A lot of power. You are a cultist yourself, sad to say, if you don’t get how the ’90’s worked. You’re what, 40 years old? It shows.
Pathetic response, nous. Very nonspecific. But good on you for responding at all!
My Bosnian friends (now American citizens) love “the Clintons”. Bill Clinton saved their lives. But you’re still not taking account the context, are you? Clinton was vilified for taking on the Yugoslav war.
I am glad they were in charge rather than Gingrich and Hastert and that bunch.
Hahahaha. Yeah, me too. But they had some power, no? A lot of power. You are a cultist yourself, sad to say, if you don’t get how the ’90’s worked. You’re what, 40 years old? It shows.
By the way, aren’t you against the US hegemon?
The Kosovo “shitshow” as you described it was UN thing. Are you a Republican, an anti-UN person?
By the way, aren’t you against the US hegemon?
The Kosovo “shitshow” as you described it was UN thing. Are you a Republican, an anti-UN person?
Full loaves for all.
Full loaves for all.
Full loaves for all.
Make your own bread. No plastic.
Full loaves for all.
Make your own bread. No plastic.
I’m old enough to have had to consider whether or not I would have been called up in Gulf War I and to have classmates who were.
And look now, I ‘m simultaneously way too far left AND almost a Republican.
Do not conflate Bosnia (where we did too little, but thank God we did what we did) and Kosovo (which was a shitty little PR war that was badly managed and that was steered by the US and the UK). I’ve got friends and colleagues, too, who were Bosnian who were saved. Doesn’t mean that they have a lot of good to say about Kosovo and the haphazard bombing campaign that killed a couple thousand civilians.
I knew that sapient would start lashing out the moment that the Clintons were impugned, but I’m the cultist. Sorry, I just don’t have any mythic attachments to them.
I’m old enough to have had to consider whether or not I would have been called up in Gulf War I and to have classmates who were.
And look now, I ‘m simultaneously way too far left AND almost a Republican.
Do not conflate Bosnia (where we did too little, but thank God we did what we did) and Kosovo (which was a shitty little PR war that was badly managed and that was steered by the US and the UK). I’ve got friends and colleagues, too, who were Bosnian who were saved. Doesn’t mean that they have a lot of good to say about Kosovo and the haphazard bombing campaign that killed a couple thousand civilians.
I knew that sapient would start lashing out the moment that the Clintons were impugned, but I’m the cultist. Sorry, I just don’t have any mythic attachments to them.
Maybe you could provide a link or two?
Badly managed by the US? As in the US was managing everything? You do know (or maybe you don’t) that Russia was interested in the Yugoslav wars? And also the various Yugoslavs were fighting?
I’m old enough to have had to consider whether or not I would have been called up in Gulf War I and to have classmates who were.
So tragic. I’m old enough where people I know were actually drafted! I said DRAFTED. Yeah. Not “called up” whatever that means.
Maybe you could provide a link or two?
Badly managed by the US? As in the US was managing everything? You do know (or maybe you don’t) that Russia was interested in the Yugoslav wars? And also the various Yugoslavs were fighting?
I’m old enough to have had to consider whether or not I would have been called up in Gulf War I and to have classmates who were.
So tragic. I’m old enough where people I know were actually drafted! I said DRAFTED. Yeah. Not “called up” whatever that means.
How’re you gonna get there? That’s the weird part. That’s the hard part. That’s the part that takes time, compromise, and sacrifice (hard sell).
Yup. But the hardest part may be accepting that even those doing (some of) what you want are flawed human beings, and will do some things that you really don’t like. But for most of us (that being anyone who isn’t going to get elected president himself) that’s inevitable.
If it’s more comfortable, that can be regarded as picking the “less awful” candidate. But that’s what it takes to make progress. Otherwise, you get the more awful choice. Some folks who sat out 2016 in a snit discovered that.
How’re you gonna get there? That’s the weird part. That’s the hard part. That’s the part that takes time, compromise, and sacrifice (hard sell).
Yup. But the hardest part may be accepting that even those doing (some of) what you want are flawed human beings, and will do some things that you really don’t like. But for most of us (that being anyone who isn’t going to get elected president himself) that’s inevitable.
If it’s more comfortable, that can be regarded as picking the “less awful” candidate. But that’s what it takes to make progress. Otherwise, you get the more awful choice. Some folks who sat out 2016 in a snit discovered that.
Tragedy: 219 people died in Gulf War 1.
And yes, for those people, it was a tragedy.
Thank you, nous, for considering the possibility that someone you know might have, maybe, been called to serve. So sorry for your angst.
My father fought on D-Day.
Tragedy: 219 people died in Gulf War 1.
And yes, for those people, it was a tragedy.
Thank you, nous, for considering the possibility that someone you know might have, maybe, been called to serve. So sorry for your angst.
My father fought on D-Day.
I meant, in my 10:30, that 219 Americans died. Don’t mean to disrespect those who died on the other side of things.
I meant, in my 10:30, that 219 Americans died. Don’t mean to disrespect those who died on the other side of things.
sapient, don’t let the fact that I agreed with you go to your head…
I’ll let Donald answer rather than taking what you feel his answer should be. I’d urge you to avoid answering for other people.
sapient, don’t let the fact that I agreed with you go to your head…
I’ll let Donald answer rather than taking what you feel his answer should be. I’d urge you to avoid answering for other people.
lj, can I just comment?
My comments to Donald and nous really had nothing to do with your (very welcome but very limited) comment. Was what I said that out of line? If so, please explain.
I really need to know in what way I violate whatever your rules are by voicing my opinions which really aren’t hugely insulting. Or if they are, can’t those folks defend themselves?
I would appreciate your being more explicit about what I’m doing wrong, without you threatening to dox me, etc. Thanks!
lj, can I just comment?
My comments to Donald and nous really had nothing to do with your (very welcome but very limited) comment. Was what I said that out of line? If so, please explain.
I really need to know in what way I violate whatever your rules are by voicing my opinions which really aren’t hugely insulting. Or if they are, can’t those folks defend themselves?
I would appreciate your being more explicit about what I’m doing wrong, without you threatening to dox me, etc. Thanks!
lj, can I just comment?
Don’t see how I can stop you, though do read thru the whole comment.
My comments to Donald and nous really had nothing to do with your (very welcome but very limited) comment. Was what I said that out of line? If so, please explain.
Sapient, you answered for someone else. You said
Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.
Maybe you thought you were just being helpful, but you should really shed that notion. I don’t see how else to see this other than you trying to get in a cheap shot. If I were Donald, I’d be upset. Though he knows you and he knows your behavior, so he might just say ‘there they go again’.
If I were to have a discussion with nous and invoke you with a phrase like ‘unlike sapient, I don’t feel the Clintons walk on water’, you would take that as an attack on you. As well you should, especially if you hadn’t said anything previously.
I don’t really know why you don’t have better control over your rhetoric. Your last lines are a perfect example.
I would appreciate your being more explicit about what I’m doing wrong, without you threatening to dox me, etc. Thanks!
I have never threatened to dox you or anyone. If you took anything I said as a threat to dox you, you are mistaken. I suspect you know this and just tossed it out there to try and make me angry. That way, you can maximally define yourself as under siege from people who have different opinions from you on anything.
This is why I always am on you, because you seem unable to play and work well with others here. If you can’t see or understand that, I’m not sure what else I can say.
One more thing. You make another accusation against me (and possibly anyone else, cause I’m pretty sick of it) like the one above without anything to back it up, I’ll kick you out. Life is unsettled enough without having to deal with baseless accusations.
lj, can I just comment?
Don’t see how I can stop you, though do read thru the whole comment.
My comments to Donald and nous really had nothing to do with your (very welcome but very limited) comment. Was what I said that out of line? If so, please explain.
Sapient, you answered for someone else. You said
Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.
Maybe you thought you were just being helpful, but you should really shed that notion. I don’t see how else to see this other than you trying to get in a cheap shot. If I were Donald, I’d be upset. Though he knows you and he knows your behavior, so he might just say ‘there they go again’.
If I were to have a discussion with nous and invoke you with a phrase like ‘unlike sapient, I don’t feel the Clintons walk on water’, you would take that as an attack on you. As well you should, especially if you hadn’t said anything previously.
I don’t really know why you don’t have better control over your rhetoric. Your last lines are a perfect example.
I would appreciate your being more explicit about what I’m doing wrong, without you threatening to dox me, etc. Thanks!
I have never threatened to dox you or anyone. If you took anything I said as a threat to dox you, you are mistaken. I suspect you know this and just tossed it out there to try and make me angry. That way, you can maximally define yourself as under siege from people who have different opinions from you on anything.
This is why I always am on you, because you seem unable to play and work well with others here. If you can’t see or understand that, I’m not sure what else I can say.
One more thing. You make another accusation against me (and possibly anyone else, cause I’m pretty sick of it) like the one above without anything to back it up, I’ll kick you out. Life is unsettled enough without having to deal with baseless accusations.
You look very hard to complain about me, lj. I do have a worry about doxxing. I’m not good at searching this site, but you did make a comment during the hairdresser discussion that made me nervous. Sorry if I misunderstood it, but maybe you shouldn’t hate on me so much. It wasn’t about you threatening to do it: you said something about russell or someone else should doxx me.
Anyone who remembers it is welcome to come to my defense, although it’s not likely that anyone will. People here were enraged that I came to the defense of some random hairdresser who wore a mask at work while experiencing some kind of sore throat or something (although cooperated with contact tracing etc.) That person was vilified here. I thought it was ugly, and said so. Bad me! Definitely bannable!
You look very hard to complain about me, lj. I do have a worry about doxxing. I’m not good at searching this site, but you did make a comment during the hairdresser discussion that made me nervous. Sorry if I misunderstood it, but maybe you shouldn’t hate on me so much. It wasn’t about you threatening to do it: you said something about russell or someone else should doxx me.
Anyone who remembers it is welcome to come to my defense, although it’s not likely that anyone will. People here were enraged that I came to the defense of some random hairdresser who wore a mask at work while experiencing some kind of sore throat or something (although cooperated with contact tracing etc.) That person was vilified here. I thought it was ugly, and said so. Bad me! Definitely bannable!
Also, that hairdresser had the gall to go to Dairy Queen!
Also, that hairdresser had the gall to go to Dairy Queen!
That discussion reminded me of hating on HIV victims.
That discussion reminded me of hating on HIV victims.
I don’t think the assertion that the Kosovo War was a shitshow needs much of a link to support it. Any halfway serious attempt to research the peer reviewed literature on the topic will turn up the gist of it. “Kosovo War, Propaganda, NATO” I don’t have time to try to recreate a literature review done a few years back for a blog discussion thread and I don’t expect this little spat to last as long as it would take to read through the books and articles, nor do I have the energy to defend every point from fine parsing when the only point of the parsing is to defend the Clintons and not to understand the actual giant mess that was our involvement in Kosovo.
Also, Kosovo wasn’t technically a UN thing. NATO went in without UN authorization at Blair’s urging and Clinton backed him (though Clinton did not agree to the ground forces that Blair wanted). The UN came in after the fact to try to broker a peace.
I don’t think the assertion that the Kosovo War was a shitshow needs much of a link to support it. Any halfway serious attempt to research the peer reviewed literature on the topic will turn up the gist of it. “Kosovo War, Propaganda, NATO” I don’t have time to try to recreate a literature review done a few years back for a blog discussion thread and I don’t expect this little spat to last as long as it would take to read through the books and articles, nor do I have the energy to defend every point from fine parsing when the only point of the parsing is to defend the Clintons and not to understand the actual giant mess that was our involvement in Kosovo.
Also, Kosovo wasn’t technically a UN thing. NATO went in without UN authorization at Blair’s urging and Clinton backed him (though Clinton did not agree to the ground forces that Blair wanted). The UN came in after the fact to try to broker a peace.
sapient, I think you are referring this thread.
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/05/comparisons/comments/page/2/#comments
Here is my comment that I think you may have in mind (May 24, 2020 at 07:07 PM)
Sapient, I’m not really sure what is up with you, but it seems like you are just picking fights. This isn’t facebook where people can’t pull up your previous comments so your concern about shaming is something that seems particularly off given your extensive comments on the blog.
Maybe you are in lockdown and not going out and need the back and forth of a debate. I’d suggest you pick something more interesting that could be discussed rather than trying to shame people for shaming people. There is a lot out there to talk about. But jumping down other people’s throats because you’ve got nothing else to do is not really making this place a place where people might want to talk. Thanks.
If you think is a doxxing threat, I suggest you recalibrate. If you believe that doxxing is pointing to your previous comments on this blog, you do not really understand the concept. I’d recommend that you apologize as well, but I’m not going to wait on that.
If you do have a memory of a comment that you would like to bring forward, you can use google advanced search here
https://www.google.com/advanced_search
enter the site and then a few words that you remember.
I’d also suggest that you treat your memory as more fallible than you think it is (that you thought I was encouraging russell to dox you should have been a big hint that your memory was not quite right) and state things as requests for restatements rather than accusing people of things that you _think_ you remember. Furthermore, if you make those kinds of irresponsible accusations against another commenter, you are out.
sapient, I think you are referring this thread.
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/05/comparisons/comments/page/2/#comments
Here is my comment that I think you may have in mind (May 24, 2020 at 07:07 PM)
Sapient, I’m not really sure what is up with you, but it seems like you are just picking fights. This isn’t facebook where people can’t pull up your previous comments so your concern about shaming is something that seems particularly off given your extensive comments on the blog.
Maybe you are in lockdown and not going out and need the back and forth of a debate. I’d suggest you pick something more interesting that could be discussed rather than trying to shame people for shaming people. There is a lot out there to talk about. But jumping down other people’s throats because you’ve got nothing else to do is not really making this place a place where people might want to talk. Thanks.
If you think is a doxxing threat, I suggest you recalibrate. If you believe that doxxing is pointing to your previous comments on this blog, you do not really understand the concept. I’d recommend that you apologize as well, but I’m not going to wait on that.
If you do have a memory of a comment that you would like to bring forward, you can use google advanced search here
https://www.google.com/advanced_search
enter the site and then a few words that you remember.
I’d also suggest that you treat your memory as more fallible than you think it is (that you thought I was encouraging russell to dox you should have been a big hint that your memory was not quite right) and state things as requests for restatements rather than accusing people of things that you _think_ you remember. Furthermore, if you make those kinds of irresponsible accusations against another commenter, you are out.
One more thing. You make another accusation against me (and possibly anyone else, cause I’m pretty sick of it) like the one above without anything to back it up, I’ll kick you out. Life is unsettled enough without having to deal with baseless accusations.
This is pretty much bullshit and typical LJ projecting himself onto others when he gets pushback.
Anyone who remembers it is welcome to come to my defense, although it’s not likely that anyone will.
I’m not following this particular line, but I’ll defend you in general and in specific. First of all, LJ is the master of mis-quoting others, so more projection there. Second, this is not his f’ing blog (or, if it is, I’m out). Third, I’ve clashed with Sapient for years. Whether we disagree or not–we almost always do–she is passionate, intellectually honest, consistent and loyal. So, this heavy-handed horseshit of how someone ought to present things or phrase a sentence or in some other fashion meet LJ’s constantly-moving expectations is bullshit on toast. LJ, you seldom engage on the merits. When crossed, you turn into an asshole, often an all world asshole. If you can’t take the give and take at this relatively benign environment, then maybe you should go home.
One more thing. You make another accusation against me (and possibly anyone else, cause I’m pretty sick of it) like the one above without anything to back it up, I’ll kick you out. Life is unsettled enough without having to deal with baseless accusations.
This is pretty much bullshit and typical LJ projecting himself onto others when he gets pushback.
Anyone who remembers it is welcome to come to my defense, although it’s not likely that anyone will.
I’m not following this particular line, but I’ll defend you in general and in specific. First of all, LJ is the master of mis-quoting others, so more projection there. Second, this is not his f’ing blog (or, if it is, I’m out). Third, I’ve clashed with Sapient for years. Whether we disagree or not–we almost always do–she is passionate, intellectually honest, consistent and loyal. So, this heavy-handed horseshit of how someone ought to present things or phrase a sentence or in some other fashion meet LJ’s constantly-moving expectations is bullshit on toast. LJ, you seldom engage on the merits. When crossed, you turn into an asshole, often an all world asshole. If you can’t take the give and take at this relatively benign environment, then maybe you should go home.
Hmmm. While I’m not always a fan of sapient’s tone, I do admire her tenacity in the service of a party I greatly prefer to the alternative, and her activism. Although I believe her harangues and insinuations against people whose political views align imperfectly with hers are misguided, I would be sad to see her banned. But McKinney, FWIW, accusing someone of having threatened to “dox” you is a really serious charge. I’m guessing lj was right when he speculated that sapient may have used the expression without fully understanding it, but he was right to point out that if she did mean it, it was completely illegitimate, and, presumably in the context of a blog, bannable. All sapient needed to do was apologise for using a term she didn’t understand…
Hmmm. While I’m not always a fan of sapient’s tone, I do admire her tenacity in the service of a party I greatly prefer to the alternative, and her activism. Although I believe her harangues and insinuations against people whose political views align imperfectly with hers are misguided, I would be sad to see her banned. But McKinney, FWIW, accusing someone of having threatened to “dox” you is a really serious charge. I’m guessing lj was right when he speculated that sapient may have used the expression without fully understanding it, but he was right to point out that if she did mean it, it was completely illegitimate, and, presumably in the context of a blog, bannable. All sapient needed to do was apologise for using a term she didn’t understand…
Sapient, when McT is defending you, you should really rethink your position.
So, McT, was I threatening to dox sapient? I’ve pointed everyone to the thread and even quoted the comment I think sapient was thinking of, so since you have volunteered your services, do explain that.
Of course, attacking me may seem like a way to defend sapient, but it’s a bullshit tactic and everyone who reads this knows it. You are welcome to point out to where I’ve misquoted people, the same google search I shared with sapient works for you too.
When crossed, you turn into an asshole, often an all world asshole. If you can’t take the give and take at this relatively benign environment, then maybe you should go home.
It’s always projection with you, isn’t it? However, any long time reader here will know that you never admit you are wrong, you just scurry off cause you are “too busy”. I’d suggest you take your own advice but you seem to do that, whenever you are on the losing end of a discussion (because you can’t back down) you disappear. I can tell you, the suspense of waiting till you crawl out to tell us everyone here is a marxist is always spine-tingling!
Sapient, when McT is defending you, you should really rethink your position.
So, McT, was I threatening to dox sapient? I’ve pointed everyone to the thread and even quoted the comment I think sapient was thinking of, so since you have volunteered your services, do explain that.
Of course, attacking me may seem like a way to defend sapient, but it’s a bullshit tactic and everyone who reads this knows it. You are welcome to point out to where I’ve misquoted people, the same google search I shared with sapient works for you too.
When crossed, you turn into an asshole, often an all world asshole. If you can’t take the give and take at this relatively benign environment, then maybe you should go home.
It’s always projection with you, isn’t it? However, any long time reader here will know that you never admit you are wrong, you just scurry off cause you are “too busy”. I’d suggest you take your own advice but you seem to do that, whenever you are on the losing end of a discussion (because you can’t back down) you disappear. I can tell you, the suspense of waiting till you crawl out to tell us everyone here is a marxist is always spine-tingling!
In hindsight, I was too hard on the hairdresser. Sorry.
In hindsight, I was too hard on the hairdresser. Sorry.
my own thoughts, FWIW.
pretty much everybody here has been here a while. we all know each other’s style and general (online) personality.
some of us rub others of us the wrong way, on a regular basis.
maybe just let it be.
if someone is being really abusive, different story. if some inter-personal pissing match is dragging a whole thread down, different story.
but other than that maybe just let it ride. if somebody’s style of engagement bugs you, don’t engage with them.
there is something of value in the substance of pretty much every comment on this thread. maybe just engage with that and let the differences in personality slide.
my own thoughts, FWIW.
pretty much everybody here has been here a while. we all know each other’s style and general (online) personality.
some of us rub others of us the wrong way, on a regular basis.
maybe just let it be.
if someone is being really abusive, different story. if some inter-personal pissing match is dragging a whole thread down, different story.
but other than that maybe just let it ride. if somebody’s style of engagement bugs you, don’t engage with them.
there is something of value in the substance of pretty much every comment on this thread. maybe just engage with that and let the differences in personality slide.
First, as to who “owns” Obsidian Wings – I suspect a goodly number of people have the password. Very few use it these days, as we can all see by looking at who does front-page posts – besides lj, there’s wj, russell, ugh occasionally, me occasionally, Sebastian and Doctor Science once in a blue moon – sorry if I’m forgetting someone, but it’s not a long list in any case.
Anyone with the password can, in theory, ban someone. Anyone who has been around here for a while knows that it’s a power that is used very very very rarely, and never, as far as I know, by one person in a vengeful snit. The “front pagers” consult when there’s a problem. There’s no hierarchy, just discussion, so far (in my experience) ending in consensus whenever a decision needs to be made. Which is not very often.
But the person who has kept it going for years is liberal japonicus. So if anyone “owns” the blog, it is in fact lj.
If that means McKinney is going to back up his “threat,” well, “Sayonara” is a good word.
First, as to who “owns” Obsidian Wings – I suspect a goodly number of people have the password. Very few use it these days, as we can all see by looking at who does front-page posts – besides lj, there’s wj, russell, ugh occasionally, me occasionally, Sebastian and Doctor Science once in a blue moon – sorry if I’m forgetting someone, but it’s not a long list in any case.
Anyone with the password can, in theory, ban someone. Anyone who has been around here for a while knows that it’s a power that is used very very very rarely, and never, as far as I know, by one person in a vengeful snit. The “front pagers” consult when there’s a problem. There’s no hierarchy, just discussion, so far (in my experience) ending in consensus whenever a decision needs to be made. Which is not very often.
But the person who has kept it going for years is liberal japonicus. So if anyone “owns” the blog, it is in fact lj.
If that means McKinney is going to back up his “threat,” well, “Sayonara” is a good word.
When Russell or others dox her, we can return to this.
Posted by: liberal japonicus | May 24, 2020 at 08:23 PM
At the risk of opening this wound further, I’m pasting what appears to be lj’s “treat” to dox sapient.
It seems pretty clear to me that it was a “when someone actually does this, we can talk about how bad they’re behaving” formulation. I think the “her” was the hairdresser who worked while COVID-positive, not sapient. The point being, even if our criticism of her on this obscure, little blog was excessive, no one was looking to out her for any sort of harassment.
No one, not lj or anyone else, was threatening to dox sapient, in my not-remotely-humble (on this particular point) opinion.
When Russell or others dox her, we can return to this.
Posted by: liberal japonicus | May 24, 2020 at 08:23 PM
At the risk of opening this wound further, I’m pasting what appears to be lj’s “treat” to dox sapient.
It seems pretty clear to me that it was a “when someone actually does this, we can talk about how bad they’re behaving” formulation. I think the “her” was the hairdresser who worked while COVID-positive, not sapient. The point being, even if our criticism of her on this obscure, little blog was excessive, no one was looking to out her for any sort of harassment.
No one, not lj or anyone else, was threatening to dox sapient, in my not-remotely-humble (on this particular point) opinion.
The point being, even if our criticism of her on this obscure, little blog was excessive, no one was looking to out her for any sort of harassment.
And the “her” here is the hairdresser. (Pronoun trouble!)
The point being, even if our criticism of her on this obscure, little blog was excessive, no one was looking to out her for any sort of harassment.
And the “her” here is the hairdresser. (Pronoun trouble!)
Kumbaya is a nice idea, russell, but contrary to McK (surprise surprise), I think lj was quite forbearing with sapient, that self-portrayed picture of innocence who wrote these comments last night (among others where the plausible deniability was better constructed):
Every one of these comments is a deliberate sneer, intended, as lj said, to make other people angry. They’re all sapient doing what sapient and McK have projected onto lj, which is to be nasty to people who disagree with the writer.
This is not “differences in personality.” If it’s the ObWi way, well, have fun. Or “fun.”
Kumbaya is a nice idea, russell, but contrary to McK (surprise surprise), I think lj was quite forbearing with sapient, that self-portrayed picture of innocence who wrote these comments last night (among others where the plausible deniability was better constructed):
Every one of these comments is a deliberate sneer, intended, as lj said, to make other people angry. They’re all sapient doing what sapient and McK have projected onto lj, which is to be nasty to people who disagree with the writer.
This is not “differences in personality.” If it’s the ObWi way, well, have fun. Or “fun.”
As to that poor hairdresser, I wrote that people who are sick should stay home, and that people should follow the rules, and that the collective “we” should make it possible financially for people to stay home when they’re sick.
That was not vilification. I’m not going to relitigate the whole thing, all the more since a link has been provided to counter sapient’s misquotes, misdirection, stubborn and deliberate misinterpretation, or whatever it all is.
It was great that there wasn’t an outbreak after the hairdresser broke the rules. But we are so far up to 5 dead — five people lost their lives — and over 175 sick with COVID-19 in Maine because of one wedding where people didn’t follow the rules, and because of the pastor who officiated, who is egging on his parishioners to keep right on with not following the rules.
So I will just repeat myself: if you’re sick, stay home, and follow the other COVID rules as well. Your choice to go to the Dairy Queen when you’re sick is not more important than the lives of other human beings.
As to that poor hairdresser, I wrote that people who are sick should stay home, and that people should follow the rules, and that the collective “we” should make it possible financially for people to stay home when they’re sick.
That was not vilification. I’m not going to relitigate the whole thing, all the more since a link has been provided to counter sapient’s misquotes, misdirection, stubborn and deliberate misinterpretation, or whatever it all is.
It was great that there wasn’t an outbreak after the hairdresser broke the rules. But we are so far up to 5 dead — five people lost their lives — and over 175 sick with COVID-19 in Maine because of one wedding where people didn’t follow the rules, and because of the pastor who officiated, who is egging on his parishioners to keep right on with not following the rules.
So I will just repeat myself: if you’re sick, stay home, and follow the other COVID rules as well. Your choice to go to the Dairy Queen when you’re sick is not more important than the lives of other human beings.
the folks I can think of who have actually been banned from here are:
the guy whose nom-de-blog was Latin for oral rapist and who thought Lindsay had a pretty mouth
the guy with the horses who thought it was a good idea for his daughter-in-the-navy to beat the shit out of her lesbian bunkmate
Brett Bellmore, for his inability to consider any topic other than as a pretext for talking about guns, at extreme length
the first two were with prejudice, Brett much less so but it was just enough already. all of them were after lengthy and repeated attempts to get the parties in question to tone it down.
nobody is planning to dox anybody here.
agreed that it’s pretty much lj who’s kept the lights on since hilzoy’s departure.
also, I’m in complete agreement with this:
While I’m not always a fan of sapient’s tone, I do admire her tenacity in the service of a party I greatly prefer to the alternative, and her activism.
Tone is tone, substance is substance. Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
the folks I can think of who have actually been banned from here are:
the guy whose nom-de-blog was Latin for oral rapist and who thought Lindsay had a pretty mouth
the guy with the horses who thought it was a good idea for his daughter-in-the-navy to beat the shit out of her lesbian bunkmate
Brett Bellmore, for his inability to consider any topic other than as a pretext for talking about guns, at extreme length
the first two were with prejudice, Brett much less so but it was just enough already. all of them were after lengthy and repeated attempts to get the parties in question to tone it down.
nobody is planning to dox anybody here.
agreed that it’s pretty much lj who’s kept the lights on since hilzoy’s departure.
also, I’m in complete agreement with this:
While I’m not always a fan of sapient’s tone, I do admire her tenacity in the service of a party I greatly prefer to the alternative, and her activism.
Tone is tone, substance is substance. Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
Kumbaya is a nice idea, russell, but … which is to be nasty to people who disagree with the writer.
I don’t disagree.
It would be better for all concerned if people didn’t personalize their disagreements.
Kumbaya is a nice idea, russell, but … which is to be nasty to people who disagree with the writer.
I don’t disagree.
It would be better for all concerned if people didn’t personalize their disagreements.
russell: mcmanus.
*****
Also, saying “people who are sick should stay home” is not like “hating on HIV victims.” It’s like saying people who know they have HIV should wear a condom. Duh.
russell: mcmanus.
*****
Also, saying “people who are sick should stay home” is not like “hating on HIV victims.” It’s like saying people who know they have HIV should wear a condom. Duh.
Bizarrely enough, this all started out when I felt compelled to note that I agreed with sapient.
I’m often on sapient’s case so I should say here that I agree with the point about not worrying about previous spats, which are ancient history, as much as I think ancient history informs current situations.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Bizarrely enough, this all started out when I felt compelled to note that I agreed with sapient.
I’m often on sapient’s case so I should say here that I agree with the point about not worrying about previous spats, which are ancient history, as much as I think ancient history informs current situations.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Further clarification in the face of an attempt to equate things that aren’t equivalent:
No one should vilify people who are sick for being sick, and no one did.
But knowing you’re sick and refusing to take precautions against passing the illness on to other people is a different story. Being deliberately careless of other people’s lives should not go unremarked. To say the very least.
Further clarification in the face of an attempt to equate things that aren’t equivalent:
No one should vilify people who are sick for being sick, and no one did.
But knowing you’re sick and refusing to take precautions against passing the illness on to other people is a different story. Being deliberately careless of other people’s lives should not go unremarked. To say the very least.
Also, saying “people who are sick should stay home” is not like “hating on HIV victims.” It’s like saying people who know they have HIV should wear a condom.
This is incontrovertibly true.
Also, hsh’s admirable work @09.57 upthread makes it clear that nobody, least of all lj, was threatening to dox sapient, or anybody else. So sapient misunderstood, and accused lj of something he would never have done (as all of us who have observed him lo these many years would have known).
Also, saying “people who are sick should stay home” is not like “hating on HIV victims.” It’s like saying people who know they have HIV should wear a condom.
This is incontrovertibly true.
Also, hsh’s admirable work @09.57 upthread makes it clear that nobody, least of all lj, was threatening to dox sapient, or anybody else. So sapient misunderstood, and accused lj of something he would never have done (as all of us who have observed him lo these many years would have known).
First, I apologize that I misunderstood the doxxing comment (the one that hairshirt found is the one I was thinking of), which I thought was directed towards me, since lj and russell (and possibly others) know who I am. I’m grateful that the comment didn’t mean what I took to it to mean, and my paranoia took over.
I appreciate the kind words from the people here who don’t hate me. Thank you.
Yes, I do get annoyed when people look at recent history and criticize complicated policy choices without bringing context to bear on the discussion. I’m sorry if my tone becomes angry at times.
I’m going to take a break for awhile. I meant no malice to anyone, and I appreciate the opportunity to comment, and sometimes to rant, here. Thanks for keeping the lights on, lj.
First, I apologize that I misunderstood the doxxing comment (the one that hairshirt found is the one I was thinking of), which I thought was directed towards me, since lj and russell (and possibly others) know who I am. I’m grateful that the comment didn’t mean what I took to it to mean, and my paranoia took over.
I appreciate the kind words from the people here who don’t hate me. Thank you.
Yes, I do get annoyed when people look at recent history and criticize complicated policy choices without bringing context to bear on the discussion. I’m sorry if my tone becomes angry at times.
I’m going to take a break for awhile. I meant no malice to anyone, and I appreciate the opportunity to comment, and sometimes to rant, here. Thanks for keeping the lights on, lj.
Was Brett banned?
I thought he flounced out because of being teased (by yers truly) about left-handed light bulbs and the thermodynamics of chicken-coops.
Could be wrong. I blame entropy.
Was Brett banned?
I thought he flounced out because of being teased (by yers truly) about left-handed light bulbs and the thermodynamics of chicken-coops.
Could be wrong. I blame entropy.
I may not have followed this well, but the underlying disagreement seems to be about to what extent we should or shouldn’t admire Bill Clinton’s presidency.
Well, on a scale from 1 to 10, Obama is 8, Clinton is 5, Dubya is 1, Trump is -1000. I wish we were in a world where we could have a useful discussion about what Obama could or should have done better, but we’re not. We’re in a fight to save the USA from fascism.
I may not have followed this well, but the underlying disagreement seems to be about to what extent we should or shouldn’t admire Bill Clinton’s presidency.
Well, on a scale from 1 to 10, Obama is 8, Clinton is 5, Dubya is 1, Trump is -1000. I wish we were in a world where we could have a useful discussion about what Obama could or should have done better, but we’re not. We’re in a fight to save the USA from fascism.
Trump has blown the calibration on our Presidential Performance Meter to the point that the differences between other presidents is noise.
Trump has blown the calibration on our Presidential Performance Meter to the point that the differences between other presidents is noise.
russell: mcmanus
oh yeah. IIRC that was kind of a Brett-ish thing, only for “guns” substitute “the dialectic”.
and what Pro Bono said @10:43.
I look forward to the day when we can dissect the failures of the Biden presidency in gory detail.
Trump delenda est.
russell: mcmanus
oh yeah. IIRC that was kind of a Brett-ish thing, only for “guns” substitute “the dialectic”.
and what Pro Bono said @10:43.
I look forward to the day when we can dissect the failures of the Biden presidency in gory detail.
Trump delenda est.
Trump has blown the calibration on our Presidential Performance Meter to the point that the differences between other presidents is noise.
Exactly.
Trump has blown the calibration on our Presidential Performance Meter to the point that the differences between other presidents is noise.
Exactly.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-health-aide-alleges-broad-190110985.html
I’m sure everyone’s already read Caputo’s bizarre comments, but it’s something else to know about the administration’s choice for this position and what they have to say about him.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-health-aide-alleges-broad-190110985.html
I’m sure everyone’s already read Caputo’s bizarre comments, but it’s something else to know about the administration’s choice for this position and what they have to say about him.
From the wikipedia entry on Caputo:
Very strange!
From the wikipedia entry on Caputo:
Very strange!
LJ’s mod skills continue to amaze … he’s made me sympathize with sapient.
And sapient, taking a break is probably for the best. Can’t fight city hall; or you can but it’s not worth it.
LJ’s mod skills continue to amaze … he’s made me sympathize with sapient.
And sapient, taking a break is probably for the best. Can’t fight city hall; or you can but it’s not worth it.
russell: mcmanus
oh yeah. IIRC that was kind of a Brett-ish thing, only for “guns” substitute “the dialectic”.
Well, possibly in the bigger picture. But unless I’m very much misremembering, in the more immediate picture it was for overt, repeated misogyny that he deliberately escalated when he was asked to tone it down. Even sapient and I agreed about it (a perhaps unique moment in ObWi history), and overtly appealed to that agreement in arguing that he should be made to stop one way or another.
russell: mcmanus
oh yeah. IIRC that was kind of a Brett-ish thing, only for “guns” substitute “the dialectic”.
Well, possibly in the bigger picture. But unless I’m very much misremembering, in the more immediate picture it was for overt, repeated misogyny that he deliberately escalated when he was asked to tone it down. Even sapient and I agreed about it (a perhaps unique moment in ObWi history), and overtly appealed to that agreement in arguing that he should be made to stop one way or another.
kdrum:
The Best People.
kdrum:
The Best People.
JFC, Facebook is a hot mess.
JFC, Facebook is a hot mess.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Well, they may not be dunces, but lj I imagine that this particular confederacy against you should not be giving you any disquiet!
On mcmanus, it was not the dialectic, it was the misogyny (followed by a stubborn sort-of insistent doxing of hilzoy, who had of course already been thoroughly doxed elsewhere). I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant: I imagine there’s not a woman commenting (or lurking) here who has forgotten his misogyny, or its particularly revolting character.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Well, they may not be dunces, but lj I imagine that this particular confederacy against you should not be giving you any disquiet!
On mcmanus, it was not the dialectic, it was the misogyny (followed by a stubborn sort-of insistent doxing of hilzoy, who had of course already been thoroughly doxed elsewhere). I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant: I imagine there’s not a woman commenting (or lurking) here who has forgotten his misogyny, or its particularly revolting character.
Or, what Janie said @11.18
Or, what Janie said @11.18
He was a left-wing incel or sorts.
He was a left-wing incel or sorts.
of, not or.
of, not or.
Yes, although he called himself a “volcel”
Yes, although he called himself a “volcel”
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant: I imagine there’s not a woman commenting (or lurking) here who has forgotten his misogyny, or its particularly revolting character.
Seconded. The bold was my first thought when russell attributed it to “the dialectic.”
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant: I imagine there’s not a woman commenting (or lurking) here who has forgotten his misogyny, or its particularly revolting character.
Seconded. The bold was my first thought when russell attributed it to “the dialectic.”
Pro Bono’s assessment at 10:43 is a good summary of the disagreement from my POV, and I neither hate sapient nor expected anything less in response. I’ve been a science fiction fan and a metalhead long enough to know when a statement of mine will be both an argument and heretical to a particular fandom, and politics has its own measure of fan culture and behavior. Goes with the territory.
Pro Bono’s assessment at 10:43 is a good summary of the disagreement from my POV, and I neither hate sapient nor expected anything less in response. I’ve been a science fiction fan and a metalhead long enough to know when a statement of mine will be both an argument and heretical to a particular fandom, and politics has its own measure of fan culture and behavior. Goes with the territory.
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant:
interesting observation.
i had forgotten all about mcmanus. and when reminded, my reaction was “oh, that tiresome boor”. i barely remember the misogyny – and what i do remember was that it popped up and *poof* he was gone. but looking at archives, i see it didn’t exactly happen that way – took a bit of time.
so, i guess you nailed it.
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant:
interesting observation.
i had forgotten all about mcmanus. and when reminded, my reaction was “oh, that tiresome boor”. i barely remember the misogyny – and what i do remember was that it popped up and *poof* he was gone. but looking at archives, i see it didn’t exactly happen that way – took a bit of time.
so, i guess you nailed it.
it was for overt, repeated misogyny
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant
The bold was my first thought when russell attributed it to “the dialectic.”
All noted.
And this is certainly not the first time that I’ve needed to acknowledge and own my male blinders.
Apologies.
it was for overt, repeated misogyny
I can’t help feeling that the amnesia on this is significant
The bold was my first thought when russell attributed it to “the dialectic.”
All noted.
And this is certainly not the first time that I’ve needed to acknowledge and own my male blinders.
Apologies.
Neither Donald nor nous will answer right away.
Not that it’s news to anyone, but this is a tactic for pre-emptively making someone else bad or wrong.
If I could give ObWi (or life) one tagline, it would be, “Don’t bite hooks.” In other words, walking away from baiting and nastiness is not a failing, or cowardice, it’s a virtue, and admirable. Good for Donald for finding something better to do.
Now I’m off to do the same.
Neither Donald nor nous will answer right away.
Not that it’s news to anyone, but this is a tactic for pre-emptively making someone else bad or wrong.
If I could give ObWi (or life) one tagline, it would be, “Don’t bite hooks.” In other words, walking away from baiting and nastiness is not a failing, or cowardice, it’s a virtue, and admirable. Good for Donald for finding something better to do.
Now I’m off to do the same.
Yes, interesting cleek. I’m thinking there may be something of an analogy with racism, in that white people don’t notice the constant micro-aggressions that black people are subject to all the time (not that mcmanus’s aggressions were micro), in the same way most men here didn’t really notice, and now had forgotten, mcm’s misogyny. Yup, interesting.
Yes, interesting cleek. I’m thinking there may be something of an analogy with racism, in that white people don’t notice the constant micro-aggressions that black people are subject to all the time (not that mcmanus’s aggressions were micro), in the same way most men here didn’t really notice, and now had forgotten, mcm’s misogyny. Yup, interesting.
no doubt you are 100% correct, GftNC.
i try to be an ally. but that’s definitely not the same as being the target.
no doubt you are 100% correct, GftNC.
i try to be an ally. but that’s definitely not the same as being the target.
i try to be an ally. but that’s definitely not the same as being the target.
likewise.
I appreciate having my blind spots brought to my attention. So, thank you both.
i try to be an ally. but that’s definitely not the same as being the target.
likewise.
I appreciate having my blind spots brought to my attention. So, thank you both.
I do see you, and russell and hsh, and almost everyone here, as allies, which is why I feel free to discuss it in this way. I trust you not to retreat into kneejerk defensiveness, and my trust is justified.
I do see you, and russell and hsh, and almost everyone here, as allies, which is why I feel free to discuss it in this way. I trust you not to retreat into kneejerk defensiveness, and my trust is justified.
I was just out for a bit to dredge up why McManus was booted, I remembered that he outed Hilzoy (kind of ironic that a big impetus for this was talk about doxxing) but I should first say that I accused sapient of just trying to get me angry, when she actually felt she had been threatened. So my apologies for making that accusation, it was unfair. I _knew_ I hadn’t done that and I knew that I hadn’t expressed much of an opinion on the hairdresser, so it was easy for me to assume that sapient knew it as well. Sorry about that.
About mcmanus, while I remembered (dimly) the misogyny he brought to the table, I also remembered that he was kicked out, for, as GftNC pointed out, using Hilzoy’s real name and when asked to stop, refused. I also now wonder if we should have kicked him out earlier.
It reminds me of a discussion we were having here about reasons to be fired if you work at a Japanese university. Privacy has become a big issue here, and, as is usual here, the form takes precedence over the function, so you can have one part of the university disregarding privacy, but another group forced to jump through essentially meaningless hoops. Think security (and now Covid) theatre and you should get a good idea. I noted that even though people could get fired ‘for’ that, what usually happens is that the reason for being fired is something far different, but everyone agrees that this broken rule (which others may have broken other times) is ascribed as the reason ‘why’ someone is fired.
I think a similar thing was going on here. The ‘reason’ mcmanus was booted had to boiled down to something that could be set out as ‘you did this, now you are getting punished’ when the real problem is a long-standing attitudinal problem. And if it hadn’t been this thing, it would have been something else.
Unfortunately, with misogyny and racism, it’s far too easy for people to play with the language and provide just enough doubt to the reading to claim that they weren’t doing what they are being accused of. So I take GftNC’s point about amnesia, but it is something that is structurally supported by the way we can take action here (and perhaps elsewhere). I don’t say this to absolve myself of not bringing up the misogyny when mcmanus was kicked off the island or of my amnesia (going back thru those comments, sheesh) that I had as to the depth and breadth of it. But this is why these sorts of things can be so hard to deal with and root out which is why I appreciate GftNC for pointing it out.
I was just out for a bit to dredge up why McManus was booted, I remembered that he outed Hilzoy (kind of ironic that a big impetus for this was talk about doxxing) but I should first say that I accused sapient of just trying to get me angry, when she actually felt she had been threatened. So my apologies for making that accusation, it was unfair. I _knew_ I hadn’t done that and I knew that I hadn’t expressed much of an opinion on the hairdresser, so it was easy for me to assume that sapient knew it as well. Sorry about that.
About mcmanus, while I remembered (dimly) the misogyny he brought to the table, I also remembered that he was kicked out, for, as GftNC pointed out, using Hilzoy’s real name and when asked to stop, refused. I also now wonder if we should have kicked him out earlier.
It reminds me of a discussion we were having here about reasons to be fired if you work at a Japanese university. Privacy has become a big issue here, and, as is usual here, the form takes precedence over the function, so you can have one part of the university disregarding privacy, but another group forced to jump through essentially meaningless hoops. Think security (and now Covid) theatre and you should get a good idea. I noted that even though people could get fired ‘for’ that, what usually happens is that the reason for being fired is something far different, but everyone agrees that this broken rule (which others may have broken other times) is ascribed as the reason ‘why’ someone is fired.
I think a similar thing was going on here. The ‘reason’ mcmanus was booted had to boiled down to something that could be set out as ‘you did this, now you are getting punished’ when the real problem is a long-standing attitudinal problem. And if it hadn’t been this thing, it would have been something else.
Unfortunately, with misogyny and racism, it’s far too easy for people to play with the language and provide just enough doubt to the reading to claim that they weren’t doing what they are being accused of. So I take GftNC’s point about amnesia, but it is something that is structurally supported by the way we can take action here (and perhaps elsewhere). I don’t say this to absolve myself of not bringing up the misogyny when mcmanus was kicked off the island or of my amnesia (going back thru those comments, sheesh) that I had as to the depth and breadth of it. But this is why these sorts of things can be so hard to deal with and root out which is why I appreciate GftNC for pointing it out.
It reminds me of a discussion we were having here
not ‘here’ as in ObWi, but ‘here’ as in something that came thru my computer…
It reminds me of a discussion we were having here
not ‘here’ as in ObWi, but ‘here’ as in something that came thru my computer…
No worries, lj, you were (as the cockneys say) sound as a bell when the misogyny was called out, and have always been a stand-up ally on these matters. As for keeping the lights on, you do a sterling job, and we all owe you for it.
No worries, lj, you were (as the cockneys say) sound as a bell when the misogyny was called out, and have always been a stand-up ally on these matters. As for keeping the lights on, you do a sterling job, and we all owe you for it.
To add to my 12:23, which seems like a month ago already, kudos as well to nous, who did answer. It’s a state of being that I aspire to, to be able to answer a baiting comment without taking the bait. So my tagline gets complexified:
Answer, don’t answer, don’t bite hooks. 😉
To add to my 12:23, which seems like a month ago already, kudos as well to nous, who did answer. It’s a state of being that I aspire to, to be able to answer a baiting comment without taking the bait. So my tagline gets complexified:
Answer, don’t answer, don’t bite hooks. 😉
Per lj’s 12:44: this is not easy stuff. As frustrated as I get sometimes, I am totally on board with banning being a very rare reaction here, leaving aside obvious spam.
But also, the feeling of suddenness that cleek describes as it popped up and *poof* he was gone (and yes, I know that wasn’t cleek’s last word) oftentimes comes because of a straw that broke the camel’s back moment. As lj says, there’s a lot of skirting the edges, a lot of deniability, a lot of nuance that makes it hard to decide to ban someone. What’s going on passes outside the radar of people who aren’t the targets (like with racism, yes). But to the targets, there has been a steady drip drip drip for a long time, and finally there’s one drip too many, and the sluice gates break.
Or something.
Per lj’s 12:44: this is not easy stuff. As frustrated as I get sometimes, I am totally on board with banning being a very rare reaction here, leaving aside obvious spam.
But also, the feeling of suddenness that cleek describes as it popped up and *poof* he was gone (and yes, I know that wasn’t cleek’s last word) oftentimes comes because of a straw that broke the camel’s back moment. As lj says, there’s a lot of skirting the edges, a lot of deniability, a lot of nuance that makes it hard to decide to ban someone. What’s going on passes outside the radar of people who aren’t the targets (like with racism, yes). But to the targets, there has been a steady drip drip drip for a long time, and finally there’s one drip too many, and the sluice gates break.
Or something.
Yes, interesting cleek. I’m thinking there may be something of an analogy with racism, in that white people don’t notice the constant micro-aggressions that black people are subject to all the time (not that mcmanus’s aggressions were micro), in the same way most men here didn’t really notice, and now had forgotten, mcm’s misogyny.
Speaking only for myself, I don’t feel that I fail to notice misogyny or racism, either one. (At least, no more than my general obviousness to the world around me.)
Certainly the details do tend to fade far more quickly than they would if I was the target of the attack. But forgotten is a long way from forgiven. All it takes is a simple “Remember when…” and I’m back sharing the outrage at the offender.
Yes, interesting cleek. I’m thinking there may be something of an analogy with racism, in that white people don’t notice the constant micro-aggressions that black people are subject to all the time (not that mcmanus’s aggressions were micro), in the same way most men here didn’t really notice, and now had forgotten, mcm’s misogyny.
Speaking only for myself, I don’t feel that I fail to notice misogyny or racism, either one. (At least, no more than my general obviousness to the world around me.)
Certainly the details do tend to fade far more quickly than they would if I was the target of the attack. But forgotten is a long way from forgiven. All it takes is a simple “Remember when…” and I’m back sharing the outrage at the offender.
As lj says, there’s a lot of skirting the edges, a lot of deniability, a lot of nuance that makes it hard to decide to ban someone.
One thing mcmanus did a lot was to combine class-based and sometimes race-based critiques with discussions of sexism and misogyny such that he could paint the sexism/misogyny victim as a class/race oppressor. And sometimes it was just plain-old “women using their power over men,” which wasn’t quite as subtle. Then, even less subtle, were fairly obviously misogynistic insults toward specific women or particular groups of women. All depending on how far he was dropping the veil at the time, and combined with whatever he occasionally revealed about his personal life, you could figure out where he was coming from.
As lj says, there’s a lot of skirting the edges, a lot of deniability, a lot of nuance that makes it hard to decide to ban someone.
One thing mcmanus did a lot was to combine class-based and sometimes race-based critiques with discussions of sexism and misogyny such that he could paint the sexism/misogyny victim as a class/race oppressor. And sometimes it was just plain-old “women using their power over men,” which wasn’t quite as subtle. Then, even less subtle, were fairly obviously misogynistic insults toward specific women or particular groups of women. All depending on how far he was dropping the veil at the time, and combined with whatever he occasionally revealed about his personal life, you could figure out where he was coming from.
In case you missed it
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/trump-ad-asks-people-to-support-the-troops-but-it-uses-a-picture-of-russian-jets-414883
Whose troops is Trump asking us to support again? (Those aren’t just MIGs. That soldier is carrying a Russian AK-74 assault rifle.)
Yeah, I know, probably nothing more than the usual Trump campaign incompetence at work. But still….
In case you missed it
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/trump-ad-asks-people-to-support-the-troops-but-it-uses-a-picture-of-russian-jets-414883
Whose troops is Trump asking us to support again? (Those aren’t just MIGs. That soldier is carrying a Russian AK-74 assault rifle.)
Yeah, I know, probably nothing more than the usual Trump campaign incompetence at work. But still….
Good catch with that AK-74. Wonder how many of their 3%er contingent got past the automatic frisson of ammosexual imagery to notice that little detail.
Wonder how many of them even care, now that the Russians have been written into their worldview as brave Orthodox crusaders fighting the anti-christian forces of the LGBTQ marxist brigades.
Good catch with that AK-74. Wonder how many of their 3%er contingent got past the automatic frisson of ammosexual imagery to notice that little detail.
Wonder how many of them even care, now that the Russians have been written into their worldview as brave Orthodox crusaders fighting the anti-christian forces of the LGBTQ marxist brigades.
Or something.
I’m on board with this. 🙂
Or something.
I’m on board with this. 🙂
Wow. I came back to see the reaction to my post, but I don’t think much of this was a reaction to my post. Something else must have happened. Gotta look later to see what it was. There is a lot to scroll down, or up. I will respond to sapient, who I see responding soon after me–
“Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.”
Actually, what I’m asking for on Yemen and sanctions should be pretty low-hanging fruit. There are some other things I think everyone should want which will be harder.
Yemen and sanctions are low hanging,because really, there is no good reason whatsoever for helping the Saudis bomb Yemen. It was done to keep the Saudis happy after the Iran agreement. That’s not a good reason for participating in mass slaughter.
Sanctions are just a way of making war on civilians without being called out for it, because in our narcissistic political culture for whatever set of reasons people hardly ever argue about the harm we inflict on others. Ordinary innocent people who have little or no control over whatever policies their governments engage in. We hurt Iranians, for instance, in order to put pressure on their government. That is sadistic. Compare to the reaction many Americans have to Russians engaging in a bit of dirty politics, much of it utterly ludicrous Facebook memes.
We shouldn’t be actively engaged in murdering civilians. In some situations, like WWII, ,there are no good choices. That’s not the situation we are in.
The argument that politics is very hard and you have to compromise would be a much better argument to make if I was also complaining about our lack of single payer health care or our need for a serious response to climate change. Though on the climate change issue, I think everyone here (at least on the left) will agree that the laws of physics don’t actually care much about political pragmatism. If we can’t do enough to prevent, say, a 3-4 degree temperature rise because of politics, well, we are fucked.
Wow. I came back to see the reaction to my post, but I don’t think much of this was a reaction to my post. Something else must have happened. Gotta look later to see what it was. There is a lot to scroll down, or up. I will respond to sapient, who I see responding soon after me–
“Donald mentioned a couple of things: sanctions and Yemen. He never really talks about the context in which people were governing.”
Actually, what I’m asking for on Yemen and sanctions should be pretty low-hanging fruit. There are some other things I think everyone should want which will be harder.
Yemen and sanctions are low hanging,because really, there is no good reason whatsoever for helping the Saudis bomb Yemen. It was done to keep the Saudis happy after the Iran agreement. That’s not a good reason for participating in mass slaughter.
Sanctions are just a way of making war on civilians without being called out for it, because in our narcissistic political culture for whatever set of reasons people hardly ever argue about the harm we inflict on others. Ordinary innocent people who have little or no control over whatever policies their governments engage in. We hurt Iranians, for instance, in order to put pressure on their government. That is sadistic. Compare to the reaction many Americans have to Russians engaging in a bit of dirty politics, much of it utterly ludicrous Facebook memes.
We shouldn’t be actively engaged in murdering civilians. In some situations, like WWII, ,there are no good choices. That’s not the situation we are in.
The argument that politics is very hard and you have to compromise would be a much better argument to make if I was also complaining about our lack of single payer health care or our need for a serious response to climate change. Though on the climate change issue, I think everyone here (at least on the left) will agree that the laws of physics don’t actually care much about political pragmatism. If we can’t do enough to prevent, say, a 3-4 degree temperature rise because of politics, well, we are fucked.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/endangered-species-animal-population-decline-world-wildlife-fund-new-report/
Strong American leadership will fix this!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/endangered-species-animal-population-decline-world-wildlife-fund-new-report/
Strong American leadership will fix this!
Okay, just skimmed it. It wasn’t about politics, but how some of us get on each other’s nerves.
Sapient and I rub each other the wrong way. There’s not much to be said about that. On the substance, I gave my response above.
Okay, just skimmed it. It wasn’t about politics, but how some of us get on each other’s nerves.
Sapient and I rub each other the wrong way. There’s not much to be said about that. On the substance, I gave my response above.
we’re fucked.
https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/
lots of fun maps showing where GCC is going to lead the US.
my favorites are those that show huge swaths of central CA and the greater southeast losing huge percentages of crop yields. oh sure, it will go up in the NE and great lakes areas. but, how long do you think it will take industrial farming to move there (longer than it takes for those areas to become unsuitable, since we’re not going to do anything about emissions)? and what about the fact that a lot of that land is already occupied?
we’re fucked.
https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/
lots of fun maps showing where GCC is going to lead the US.
my favorites are those that show huge swaths of central CA and the greater southeast losing huge percentages of crop yields. oh sure, it will go up in the NE and great lakes areas. but, how long do you think it will take industrial farming to move there (longer than it takes for those areas to become unsuitable, since we’re not going to do anything about emissions)? and what about the fact that a lot of that land is already occupied?
it shows a 3D model of a MiG-29, and that the soldiers were Russian models. He said it was a composite photo created five years ago and taken in three different countries showing Russian sky, Greek mountains and French ground.
The aeroplane is a fake. The soldiers are fake. The background is a fake. And after all that, it’s the wrong country’s fake.
There might be a moral in there somewhere.
it shows a 3D model of a MiG-29, and that the soldiers were Russian models. He said it was a composite photo created five years ago and taken in three different countries showing Russian sky, Greek mountains and French ground.
The aeroplane is a fake. The soldiers are fake. The background is a fake. And after all that, it’s the wrong country’s fake.
There might be a moral in there somewhere.
oh sure, it will go up in the NE and great lakes areas. but, how long do you think it will take industrial farming to move there (longer than it takes for those areas to become unsuitable, since we’re not going to do anything about emissions)? and what about the fact that a lot of that land is already occupied?
And not only already occupied, but in the case of a lot of New England, unlikely to be suitable for high-yield industrial farming in the first place. One of the reasons a lot of Maine soldiers who lived through the Civil War didn’t come back to Maine after the war was that they had seen places where there was actually topsoil….
Although, natch, humans being humans, people might try. It reminds me of Jared Diamond’s story of the near-destruction of what little topsoil Iceland had, when people came there and thought they could use farming methods that worked in England and Scandinavia.
oh sure, it will go up in the NE and great lakes areas. but, how long do you think it will take industrial farming to move there (longer than it takes for those areas to become unsuitable, since we’re not going to do anything about emissions)? and what about the fact that a lot of that land is already occupied?
And not only already occupied, but in the case of a lot of New England, unlikely to be suitable for high-yield industrial farming in the first place. One of the reasons a lot of Maine soldiers who lived through the Civil War didn’t come back to Maine after the war was that they had seen places where there was actually topsoil….
Although, natch, humans being humans, people might try. It reminds me of Jared Diamond’s story of the near-destruction of what little topsoil Iceland had, when people came there and thought they could use farming methods that worked in England and Scandinavia.
My advice: Get used to eating bugs.
My advice: Get used to eating bugs.
It wasn’t about politics, but how some of us get on each other’s nerves.
This is the most annoying comment ever.
It wasn’t about politics, but how some of us get on each other’s nerves.
This is the most annoying comment ever.
Scratch one off the bucket list.
Scratch one off the bucket list.
LOL @ Donald’s 4:30
LOL @ Donald’s 4:30
lots of fun maps showing where GCC is going to lead the US.
Confirmation of my long-standing claim that Front Range Colorado is a fine place to be. Other than a modest increase in fires up in the mountains, the maps predict crop yields increase, no increase in bad wet-bulb days, no increase in 95° days, no sea level issues, and economic impact is positive.
lots of fun maps showing where GCC is going to lead the US.
Confirmation of my long-standing claim that Front Range Colorado is a fine place to be. Other than a modest increase in fires up in the mountains, the maps predict crop yields increase, no increase in bad wet-bulb days, no increase in 95° days, no sea level issues, and economic impact is positive.
But we are so far up to
57 dead —fiveseven people lost their lives — and over 175 sick with COVID-19 in Maine because of one wedding where people didn’t follow the rules, and because of the pastor who officiated, who is egging on his parishioners to keep right on with not following the rules.Old news, updated.
But we are so far up to
57 dead —fiveseven people lost their lives — and over 175 sick with COVID-19 in Maine because of one wedding where people didn’t follow the rules, and because of the pastor who officiated, who is egging on his parishioners to keep right on with not following the rules.Old news, updated.
Sanctions are just a way of making war on civilians without being called out for it,
I think that’s a bit of an over-generalization. Certainly sanctions, especially broad ones, can hurt civilians. (Not as much, typically, as getting bombed. But hurt nonetheless.) But those aren’t the only possible kinds of sanctions. Well targeted sanctions will hurt the civilians who give the orders to the troops, rather than hurting the troops. Which can actually be a step forward in getting more care taken in starting fights.
Sanctions are just a way of making war on civilians without being called out for it,
I think that’s a bit of an over-generalization. Certainly sanctions, especially broad ones, can hurt civilians. (Not as much, typically, as getting bombed. But hurt nonetheless.) But those aren’t the only possible kinds of sanctions. Well targeted sanctions will hurt the civilians who give the orders to the troops, rather than hurting the troops. Which can actually be a step forward in getting more care taken in starting fights.
Just wait for all the complaining, though, when the Front Range gets its next wave of out-of-state people flooding in. And instead of it being all the Damn Californians coming in and driving up property values, it will be midwesterners with reduced financial prospects.
Expect homelessness to grow.
I expect Colorado is going to become more like California in many respects as those refugees flood into the urban centers.
Just wait for all the complaining, though, when the Front Range gets its next wave of out-of-state people flooding in. And instead of it being all the Damn Californians coming in and driving up property values, it will be midwesterners with reduced financial prospects.
Expect homelessness to grow.
I expect Colorado is going to become more like California in many respects as those refugees flood into the urban centers.
Old news, updated.
We’ll be over 200K dead either sometime today or tomorrow.
And we’ve left Italy, Sweden, and France in the dust on the deaths per million number. We’re closing in on the UK, we’ll probably knock them out of the top 10 sometime in the next week or so.
As far as a response at the national level, we’re on our own.
Government by people who hate government and hold it in contempt. The modern (R) dream.
Old news, updated.
We’ll be over 200K dead either sometime today or tomorrow.
And we’ve left Italy, Sweden, and France in the dust on the deaths per million number. We’re closing in on the UK, we’ll probably knock them out of the top 10 sometime in the next week or so.
As far as a response at the national level, we’re on our own.
Government by people who hate government and hold it in contempt. The modern (R) dream.
@russell
This is a vivid illustration of the point made in the first of lj’s links in the “Change of Pace” thread. (I have some objections to aspects of that article, but it’s not worth outlining them here/now.)
I’m sure I’ve linked to that OWID presentation before. You can tweak it to show whatever countries you want. There’s a stark, chilling (for some of us) distinction to be drawn, sort of like this:
1. Countries that had it very bad and got it under control (steep rise, then flatten)
2. Countries that got it under control early and never did have it very bad (no significant rise, more or less flat all the way)
3. Countries like us (ongoing rise, no end in sight)
@russell
This is a vivid illustration of the point made in the first of lj’s links in the “Change of Pace” thread. (I have some objections to aspects of that article, but it’s not worth outlining them here/now.)
I’m sure I’ve linked to that OWID presentation before. You can tweak it to show whatever countries you want. There’s a stark, chilling (for some of us) distinction to be drawn, sort of like this:
1. Countries that had it very bad and got it under control (steep rise, then flatten)
2. Countries that got it under control early and never did have it very bad (no significant rise, more or less flat all the way)
3. Countries like us (ongoing rise, no end in sight)
GOP: Government sucks at everything and we’ll prove it!
GOP: Government sucks at everything and we’ll prove it!
P.S. OWID graph I linked to is deaths per million of population.
P.S. OWID graph I linked to is deaths per million of population.
This is a remarkable story which gives me a tiny bit of hope for humanity.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/21/the-man-who-refused-to-spy
This is a remarkable story which gives me a tiny bit of hope for humanity.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/21/the-man-who-refused-to-spy
I expect Colorado is going to become more like California in many respects as those refugees flood into the urban centers.
I’m sure I’ve used it here before, but down at the Capital one of the things you already hear about Colorado is, “The eastern third of the state is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California.”
My friend the anthropologist and I sometimes discuss whether there’s a distinctly western urban culture. Thriving urban core, dominated (at least by population) by their suburbs. Statistically, western suburbs run about double the population density of suburbs in other Census Bureau regions, for actual reasons. He claims that the suburbs of any two western metro areas are much more like each other than they are like anything east of Denver.
I expect Colorado is going to become more like California in many respects as those refugees flood into the urban centers.
I’m sure I’ve used it here before, but down at the Capital one of the things you already hear about Colorado is, “The eastern third of the state is Kansas, the western third is Utah, and the rest is California.”
My friend the anthropologist and I sometimes discuss whether there’s a distinctly western urban culture. Thriving urban core, dominated (at least by population) by their suburbs. Statistically, western suburbs run about double the population density of suburbs in other Census Bureau regions, for actual reasons. He claims that the suburbs of any two western metro areas are much more like each other than they are like anything east of Denver.
ammosexual
Excellent! Your invention, nous?
ammosexual
Excellent! Your invention, nous?
Your invention, nous?
No, but I try to use it sparingly and only when it is descriptive of a sort of erotic desire, not when it is just a substitute for a gay slur with all the associated baggage.
Gives you very few moments when it actually works.
Your invention, nous?
No, but I try to use it sparingly and only when it is descriptive of a sort of erotic desire, not when it is just a substitute for a gay slur with all the associated baggage.
Gives you very few moments when it actually works.
Those Canadians better hurry up and Build The Wall.
To keep the wildlings out.
Those Canadians better hurry up and Build The Wall.
To keep the wildlings out.
Nah, once they discover that they would have to wear masks in Canada**, they’ll go home to sulk.
** Not to mention discovering that guns are not sacred there.
Nah, once they discover that they would have to wear masks in Canada**, they’ll go home to sulk.
** Not to mention discovering that guns are not sacred there.
Donald, thanks for coming back. I’ve got no idea how you got me taking a dismissive attitude to Yemen and sanctions, but for the record, I think that Yemen is an out of sight, out of mind problem and is not going to be dealt with until matters closer to home are addressed in some fashion. That doesn’t make the US right for doing that, but it does make it understandable to me.
Donald, thanks for coming back. I’ve got no idea how you got me taking a dismissive attitude to Yemen and sanctions, but for the record, I think that Yemen is an out of sight, out of mind problem and is not going to be dealt with until matters closer to home are addressed in some fashion. That doesn’t make the US right for doing that, but it does make it understandable to me.
LJ—
I was commenting on the claim that arguments on the left are the narcissism of small differences. The differences on the left are pretty darn large. I think they need to be shelved for a couple of months, but they will come back in a big way after the election.
I might respond to wj but not today.
LJ—
I was commenting on the claim that arguments on the left are the narcissism of small differences. The differences on the left are pretty darn large. I think they need to be shelved for a couple of months, but they will come back in a big way after the election.
I might respond to wj but not today.
Well, hedgehog and fox. I feel they are small because they are constantly exploited by the right to divide and conquer. You yourself point out that the things you want are ‘low-hanging fruit’. If that is the case, then are the differences unbridgable?
In the OP, I pointed out that Dems are largely not talking about the shitshow in the West in relation to Trump and Starmer’s choice to not even speak to the Internal Market Bill (though Milliband came up a few days later and ripped BoJo a new one) and my comment was on those.
As always, the invitation is open for a front page post on Yemen and sanctions.
Well, hedgehog and fox. I feel they are small because they are constantly exploited by the right to divide and conquer. You yourself point out that the things you want are ‘low-hanging fruit’. If that is the case, then are the differences unbridgable?
In the OP, I pointed out that Dems are largely not talking about the shitshow in the West in relation to Trump and Starmer’s choice to not even speak to the Internal Market Bill (though Milliband came up a few days later and ripped BoJo a new one) and my comment was on those.
As always, the invitation is open for a front page post on Yemen and sanctions.
Countries like us (ongoing rise, no end in sight)
That would be the US, Brazil, and Mexico.
India’s on it’s way, too, but they have such a large population that the “per million” part is smaller in scale.
Countries like us (ongoing rise, no end in sight)
That would be the US, Brazil, and Mexico.
India’s on it’s way, too, but they have such a large population that the “per million” part is smaller in scale.
The folks who reject science anyway won’t care. But I think this is pretty impressive.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden/
The folks who reject science anyway won’t care. But I think this is pretty impressive.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden/
… In the OP, I pointed out that Dems are largely not talking about the shitshow in the West in relation to Trump and Starmer’s choice to not even speak to the Internal Market Bill…
In the latter case, there was arguably good reason, as the Tories were – and still are – falling out over the issue. Starmer attacking it right at the beginning might have seen a closing of ranks.
Neither he not Milliband are the greatest orators, but they clearly worked hard on that speech, and it resonated.
… In the OP, I pointed out that Dems are largely not talking about the shitshow in the West in relation to Trump and Starmer’s choice to not even speak to the Internal Market Bill…
In the latter case, there was arguably good reason, as the Tories were – and still are – falling out over the issue. Starmer attacking it right at the beginning might have seen a closing of ranks.
Neither he not Milliband are the greatest orators, but they clearly worked hard on that speech, and it resonated.
Meanwhile, our Covid cases are going up too, although deaths not (yet) that much. I would (almost) envy you for the chance to dispose of your incompetent leadership so soon, if your risks of a Trump win weren’t so close.
Meanwhile, our Covid cases are going up too, although deaths not (yet) that much. I would (almost) envy you for the chance to dispose of your incompetent leadership so soon, if your risks of a Trump win weren’t so close.
Looking at the US, the top states in total cases per capita are Southern states, whereas the ones with the most deaths per capita are mostly Northeastern states. My home state of NJ is now 14th in total cases per capita, but still has the most per capita deaths.
I attribute this at least partly to the fact that the Northeastern states were hit in a big way very early on, when next to nothing was known about the nature of COVID and how best to treat it and triage patients.
My mental experiment is to assume that healthcare professionals all knew in February what they know today about COVID, but that all measures for preventing community spread were exactly as they were since we became aware of the pandemic.
How would per capita deaths compare among states under those assumptions? (Not that I expect anyone to come up with an accurate answer. It’s just something I ponder.)
Looking at the US, the top states in total cases per capita are Southern states, whereas the ones with the most deaths per capita are mostly Northeastern states. My home state of NJ is now 14th in total cases per capita, but still has the most per capita deaths.
I attribute this at least partly to the fact that the Northeastern states were hit in a big way very early on, when next to nothing was known about the nature of COVID and how best to treat it and triage patients.
My mental experiment is to assume that healthcare professionals all knew in February what they know today about COVID, but that all measures for preventing community spread were exactly as they were since we became aware of the pandemic.
How would per capita deaths compare among states under those assumptions? (Not that I expect anyone to come up with an accurate answer. It’s just something I ponder.)
Nigel, I see a bit of the same dynamic in Dems not taking Trump to task about the fire situation, I could easily see him going to the Wisconsin and Ohio and using a demand for action as taking away something from the Midwest. Best leave it to Scientific American.
Nigel, I see a bit of the same dynamic in Dems not taking Trump to task about the fire situation, I could easily see him going to the Wisconsin and Ohio and using a demand for action as taking away something from the Midwest. Best leave it to Scientific American.
A recording of a conversation with a staffer for Thom Tillis, US Senator from NC.
The person on the other end of the line has survived three episodes of cancer over the last 20 years. She was calling her Senator’s office because her husband was furloughed, she was concerned about losing her health insurance, and she was looking for some direction.
Read the transcript for the staffer’s response.
And then reflect that this was someone in a US Senator’s office, speaking to one of the Senator’s constituents.
There are lots of thoughtful discussions to have about tax rates etc. But I do not, and doubt I ever will, understand the support that people have for the (R) party.
These people are ghouls. Selfish, callous monsters. They deserve to be driven from public life. Many of them deserve to be jailed.
We all go back and forth between being amused by JDT’s posts here, and being horrified by them. But you can only push people so far before they just don’t give a crap anymore, and then all bets are off.
The cruelty of modern conservatism – the sheer, simple, obvious cruelty of it – never fails to amaze me.
A recording of a conversation with a staffer for Thom Tillis, US Senator from NC.
The person on the other end of the line has survived three episodes of cancer over the last 20 years. She was calling her Senator’s office because her husband was furloughed, she was concerned about losing her health insurance, and she was looking for some direction.
Read the transcript for the staffer’s response.
And then reflect that this was someone in a US Senator’s office, speaking to one of the Senator’s constituents.
There are lots of thoughtful discussions to have about tax rates etc. But I do not, and doubt I ever will, understand the support that people have for the (R) party.
These people are ghouls. Selfish, callous monsters. They deserve to be driven from public life. Many of them deserve to be jailed.
We all go back and forth between being amused by JDT’s posts here, and being horrified by them. But you can only push people so far before they just don’t give a crap anymore, and then all bets are off.
The cruelty of modern conservatism – the sheer, simple, obvious cruelty of it – never fails to amaze me.
The Thom Tillis staffer mouthed the completely lockstep talking points of the young Rs I know. Family and faith groups used to take care of this stuff, doncha know (the young Rs are also pig ignorant of New England history, or probably any history), and *they* would never expect $ from strangers to help them, so why should anyone expect $ from them?
I’m a little surprised that a US Senator’s staffer wasn’t better trained in mealy-mouthism, though. I guess saying the quiet parts out loud is a relief for all of them these days.
The Thom Tillis staffer mouthed the completely lockstep talking points of the young Rs I know. Family and faith groups used to take care of this stuff, doncha know (the young Rs are also pig ignorant of New England history, or probably any history), and *they* would never expect $ from strangers to help them, so why should anyone expect $ from them?
I’m a little surprised that a US Senator’s staffer wasn’t better trained in mealy-mouthism, though. I guess saying the quiet parts out loud is a relief for all of them these days.
I don’t think people appreciate the enormous wealth that exists in this country and how much of it has flowed over the last 50 years or so into the hands of a small percentage of the population. I don’t know why so many middle class people, even upper middle class, let alone blue collar Republicans, think their interests align with those of the uber-wealthy and support policies that continue funneling money upward in the wealth and income percentiles.
If that makes me a socialist (not that it does), fine, I’m a f**king socialist. I don’t want people who’ve worked their whole lives to be left to die needlessly so we can ensure that a small percentage of people can have another vacation home, spend more on a car than most people make in a year, and fly around in f**king helicopters (or whatever the hell the 1% do – I’m not even in a position to know).
It’s broken and insane.
I don’t think people appreciate the enormous wealth that exists in this country and how much of it has flowed over the last 50 years or so into the hands of a small percentage of the population. I don’t know why so many middle class people, even upper middle class, let alone blue collar Republicans, think their interests align with those of the uber-wealthy and support policies that continue funneling money upward in the wealth and income percentiles.
If that makes me a socialist (not that it does), fine, I’m a f**king socialist. I don’t want people who’ve worked their whole lives to be left to die needlessly so we can ensure that a small percentage of people can have another vacation home, spend more on a car than most people make in a year, and fly around in f**king helicopters (or whatever the hell the 1% do – I’m not even in a position to know).
It’s broken and insane.
Cal Cunningham, Tillis’ opponent, hammers on Tillis about healthcare, non-stop – and has a good shot of beating that clown.
Tillis blocked me on FB for saying unkind things 🙂
Cal Cunningham, Tillis’ opponent, hammers on Tillis about healthcare, non-stop – and has a good shot of beating that clown.
Tillis blocked me on FB for saying unkind things 🙂
I see a bit of the same dynamic in Dems not taking Trump to task about the fire situation
behold Biden
nottaking Trump to task about the fire (and the greater climate).I see a bit of the same dynamic in Dems not taking Trump to task about the fire situation
behold Biden
nottaking Trump to task about the fire (and the greater climate).Though I think there was a period of time when I (maybe no one else) was wondering why the Dems aren’t hammering Trump on this. Here are the start dates of the Oregon fires, I’m assuming that the recent ones were from Sept 7th. and a week seems like an eternity in the newscycle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_wildfires
There’s also this genre of reporting that claims that Biden is someone part of the problem because he doesn’t immediately jump everytime something happens, something made more complicated (but never seemingly acknowledged) by Covid.
Though I think there was a period of time when I (maybe no one else) was wondering why the Dems aren’t hammering Trump on this. Here are the start dates of the Oregon fires, I’m assuming that the recent ones were from Sept 7th. and a week seems like an eternity in the newscycle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_wildfires
There’s also this genre of reporting that claims that Biden is someone part of the problem because he doesn’t immediately jump everytime something happens, something made more complicated (but never seemingly acknowledged) by Covid.
Cal Cunningham, Tillis’ opponent, hammers on Tillis about healthcare
And so… $25 to Piedmont Rising.
Cal Cunningham, Tillis’ opponent, hammers on Tillis about healthcare
And so… $25 to Piedmont Rising.
“forest fires on the west coast” is a perennial story.
i think it took a while for the scale of the current situation to sink in to all of us who aren’t directly affected.
“forest fires on the west coast” is a perennial story.
i think it took a while for the scale of the current situation to sink in to all of us who aren’t directly affected.
“forest fires on the west coast” is a perennial story.
On average, about 1% of the western forests have burned every year for thousands of years.
“forest fires on the west coast” is a perennial story.
On average, about 1% of the western forests have burned every year for thousands of years.
There’s also this genre of reporting that claims that Biden is someone part of the problem because he doesn’t immediately jump everytime something happens
Not acknowledged: doing so would leave him entirely at the mercy of whatever insanity Trump tossed out. Frequently multiple different ones in a day. Sometimes, being in total react mode is not a good choice.
There’s also this genre of reporting that claims that Biden is someone part of the problem because he doesn’t immediately jump everytime something happens
Not acknowledged: doing so would leave him entirely at the mercy of whatever insanity Trump tossed out. Frequently multiple different ones in a day. Sometimes, being in total react mode is not a good choice.
Germany should try keeping us out, too.
Germany should try keeping us out, too.
And so… $25 to Piedmont Rising.
yup. i just made my 3rd contribution to Cunningham.
And so… $25 to Piedmont Rising.
yup. i just made my 3rd contribution to Cunningham.
LJ
Low hanging fruit in the case of Yemen meant two things. First, there is no legitimate argument for supporting the Saudi war. And second, after Khashoggi most of the Democrats and some Republicans ( some of whom opposed the war before) united against it. It was now Trump’s war and Trump was characteristically crude in saying we were selling the Saudis a lot of weapons. He made it easy to oppose.
But it never should have taken that long. It is interesting that so many officials were privately worried of being charged with war crimes— charged in Europe, that is. It would not happen here. And I don’t recall any State Sept types resigning and openly making a stink about it.
On sanctions, I only mean that lime Yemen, there is no moral argument for targeting civilians. But I don’t see a Biden Administration caring. I expect they will see it as a legitimate tool.
WJ— In theory one could have carefully target sanctions aimed at dictators and high ranking henchmen. In practice, I wouldn’t trust us. And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first. All those officials who were that they could be charged with war crimes if they travel overseas should worry about it here.
And here is another issue where there will be splits among the Democrats—
https://jewishcurrents.org/restoring-the-bipartisan-consensus/
Anyway, if Biden wins, and I hope he does, I haven’t seen much that makes me enthused. On optimistic days I hope he was serious about meeting the Sanders/ AOC wing
LJ
Low hanging fruit in the case of Yemen meant two things. First, there is no legitimate argument for supporting the Saudi war. And second, after Khashoggi most of the Democrats and some Republicans ( some of whom opposed the war before) united against it. It was now Trump’s war and Trump was characteristically crude in saying we were selling the Saudis a lot of weapons. He made it easy to oppose.
But it never should have taken that long. It is interesting that so many officials were privately worried of being charged with war crimes— charged in Europe, that is. It would not happen here. And I don’t recall any State Sept types resigning and openly making a stink about it.
On sanctions, I only mean that lime Yemen, there is no moral argument for targeting civilians. But I don’t see a Biden Administration caring. I expect they will see it as a legitimate tool.
WJ— In theory one could have carefully target sanctions aimed at dictators and high ranking henchmen. In practice, I wouldn’t trust us. And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first. All those officials who were that they could be charged with war crimes if they travel overseas should worry about it here.
And here is another issue where there will be splits among the Democrats—
https://jewishcurrents.org/restoring-the-bipartisan-consensus/
Anyway, if Biden wins, and I hope he does, I haven’t seen much that makes me enthused. On optimistic days I hope he was serious about meeting the Sanders/ AOC wing
And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first.
I am supposed to be taking a break, but I couldn’t help responding to this.
The whole beam in one’s eye is about self-reflection, no? Not about telling someone else about their sins? In other words when you say “And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first,” you actually aren’t including yourself. As usual, you believe that your beam has already been removed, perhaps years ago.
I’m sure I have lots of beams. I’ll deal with mine, and please deal with yours. Don’t be telling me to remove “ours” when you really are telling everyone else to shape up (and excluding yourself, because you don’t have those beams, right?). There’s nothing wrong with calling people out when you disagree with them. But please be honest about it.
When Obama was in power, MSB (who is in his thirties) came to power as an unknown, and a lot of people believed/hoped that he would be a reformer. That hope, combined with the Iran deal, combined with the hope that the US could release the Saudis, together with their allied countries, to “own” their relationship with Iran, inspired the policy to provide very limited assistance to the Saudis in Yemen – not to direct it, but to refuel and such. The purpose was not to help them kill civilians. To the contrary – to the extent that we were providing training, it was to limit civilian casualties.
Unfortunately MSB turned out to be a monster. We found this out over the course of a year, and then people began taking action accordingly.
Obviously, we should have just cut the Saudis off many years ago: you state the date. But American foreign policy was built on stability. What Obama was doing was an attempt at responsible change. Let the Middle East countries (with limited assistance – a weaning process) determine their own fate.
Okay, fine. It didn’t work. MSB proved to be a monster. Trump got elected and MSB is his bestie. All good.
Donald, please remove your own beams. Thanks!
Since I’m an addict, maybe rather than cold turnkey, I’ll cut down to one post a day.
[Just want to again acknowledge that some folks have said some very kind things in the past 24 hours, and I am very grateful. As the resident PIA, I hope that people who don’t find my comments helpful or tolerable will take advantage of cleek’s pie filter, or simply just ignore me. You are all incredibly valuable to me.]
And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first.
I am supposed to be taking a break, but I couldn’t help responding to this.
The whole beam in one’s eye is about self-reflection, no? Not about telling someone else about their sins? In other words when you say “And also, we should get the beams out of our eyes first,” you actually aren’t including yourself. As usual, you believe that your beam has already been removed, perhaps years ago.
I’m sure I have lots of beams. I’ll deal with mine, and please deal with yours. Don’t be telling me to remove “ours” when you really are telling everyone else to shape up (and excluding yourself, because you don’t have those beams, right?). There’s nothing wrong with calling people out when you disagree with them. But please be honest about it.
When Obama was in power, MSB (who is in his thirties) came to power as an unknown, and a lot of people believed/hoped that he would be a reformer. That hope, combined with the Iran deal, combined with the hope that the US could release the Saudis, together with their allied countries, to “own” their relationship with Iran, inspired the policy to provide very limited assistance to the Saudis in Yemen – not to direct it, but to refuel and such. The purpose was not to help them kill civilians. To the contrary – to the extent that we were providing training, it was to limit civilian casualties.
Unfortunately MSB turned out to be a monster. We found this out over the course of a year, and then people began taking action accordingly.
Obviously, we should have just cut the Saudis off many years ago: you state the date. But American foreign policy was built on stability. What Obama was doing was an attempt at responsible change. Let the Middle East countries (with limited assistance – a weaning process) determine their own fate.
Okay, fine. It didn’t work. MSB proved to be a monster. Trump got elected and MSB is his bestie. All good.
Donald, please remove your own beams. Thanks!
Since I’m an addict, maybe rather than cold turnkey, I’ll cut down to one post a day.
[Just want to again acknowledge that some folks have said some very kind things in the past 24 hours, and I am very grateful. As the resident PIA, I hope that people who don’t find my comments helpful or tolerable will take advantage of cleek’s pie filter, or simply just ignore me. You are all incredibly valuable to me.]
Thanks Donald. I’m still not sure why my citation the narcissism of small differences entails Yemen as a counter example. I was specifically talking about the current election campaign and discussions around that. That Yemen is not an issue in the campaign is something that is regrettable, but seems explicable. I think we are approaching the event horizon of utility on the topic, but if there is something that I’m missing, let me know.
Thanks Donald. I’m still not sure why my citation the narcissism of small differences entails Yemen as a counter example. I was specifically talking about the current election campaign and discussions around that. That Yemen is not an issue in the campaign is something that is regrettable, but seems explicable. I think we are approaching the event horizon of utility on the topic, but if there is something that I’m missing, let me know.
turkey not turnkey. I wish I had a turnkey way of solving my addiction to ObWi. Business idea?
turkey not turnkey. I wish I had a turnkey way of solving my addiction to ObWi. Business idea?
In theory one could have carefully target sanctions aimed at dictators and high ranking henchmen. In practice, I wouldn’t trust us.
At minimum, I would expect a significant learning curve. But even done ineptly initially, I think it superior to either broad sanctions (which, as you note, hurt a lot of people with no influence over the policies/actions you was to change) or a shooting war (which is likely to be worse).
Consider the world’s premiere kleptocracy: Russia. Putin and his buddies have stashed much of their ill-gotten gains abroad. (Which, given Russia generally, makes sense.) They are a relatively small, relatively easily identified, group. And their money is where we can get at it . . . without hurting ordinary Russians at all. Could be a custom made opportunity.
In theory one could have carefully target sanctions aimed at dictators and high ranking henchmen. In practice, I wouldn’t trust us.
At minimum, I would expect a significant learning curve. But even done ineptly initially, I think it superior to either broad sanctions (which, as you note, hurt a lot of people with no influence over the policies/actions you was to change) or a shooting war (which is likely to be worse).
Consider the world’s premiere kleptocracy: Russia. Putin and his buddies have stashed much of their ill-gotten gains abroad. (Which, given Russia generally, makes sense.) They are a relatively small, relatively easily identified, group. And their money is where we can get at it . . . without hurting ordinary Russians at all. Could be a custom made opportunity.
Re: US indigenous groups and fire
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/16/california-wildfires-cultural-burns-indigenous-people
Re: US indigenous groups and fire
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/16/california-wildfires-cultural-burns-indigenous-people
Somewhere around 200 known US strikes in Yemen during Obama’s presidency. All but two of those were drone strikes. 1200 or so dead. Between 120 and 150 of those are civilian deaths, a third of which were children. Another 300 people were injured in those strikes.
Most human rights organizations believe that the actual number of civilians killed is likely double the number above, based on independent information. I believe this to be accurate. The military always gives itself the benefit of the doubt where young men are concerned.
Those are the military toll.
More than 3 million people have been displaced by the war overall and somewhere around 85,000 children have died of starvation between 2015 and 2018.
There’s the toll of the sanctions and of the bombs sold to the Saudis and used to destroy arable land, water, food storage facilities, schools, and homes in the West of the country.
If we blame our Covid death numbers on Trump’s inaction and expect him to take public responsibility for them and memorialize them in some way, then what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?
Somewhere around 200 known US strikes in Yemen during Obama’s presidency. All but two of those were drone strikes. 1200 or so dead. Between 120 and 150 of those are civilian deaths, a third of which were children. Another 300 people were injured in those strikes.
Most human rights organizations believe that the actual number of civilians killed is likely double the number above, based on independent information. I believe this to be accurate. The military always gives itself the benefit of the doubt where young men are concerned.
Those are the military toll.
More than 3 million people have been displaced by the war overall and somewhere around 85,000 children have died of starvation between 2015 and 2018.
There’s the toll of the sanctions and of the bombs sold to the Saudis and used to destroy arable land, water, food storage facilities, schools, and homes in the West of the country.
If we blame our Covid death numbers on Trump’s inaction and expect him to take public responsibility for them and memorialize them in some way, then what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?
If we blame our Covid death numbers on Trump’s inaction and expect him to take public responsibility for them and memorialize them in some way, then what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?
nous, where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s, and we really don’t have the details about what’s going on anymore, because unlike Obama, Trump decided not to stop disclosing information about them?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
Of course there is a toll when war is going on. We need to look at why a war is happening, how it’s being fought, how and why we got involved, etc. Who’s doing that now? Have people stopped dying and suffering? They only died and suffered as a result of Obama’s policies, and not the policies of their own corrupt leaders, or Trump’s?
Yes, let’s keep talking endlessly about Obama’s failures.
If we blame our Covid death numbers on Trump’s inaction and expect him to take public responsibility for them and memorialize them in some way, then what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?
nous, where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s, and we really don’t have the details about what’s going on anymore, because unlike Obama, Trump decided not to stop disclosing information about them?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
Of course there is a toll when war is going on. We need to look at why a war is happening, how it’s being fought, how and why we got involved, etc. Who’s doing that now? Have people stopped dying and suffering? They only died and suffered as a result of Obama’s policies, and not the policies of their own corrupt leaders, or Trump’s?
Yes, let’s keep talking endlessly about Obama’s failures.
Hi Nous, thanks for this, and I hope I can respond without this getting too rancorous.
To start with a leading but I think pragmatic question, Why are we/should we memorialize them? Because something intrinsic about them? Or should we memorialize them in order to create future change? If the deaths from COVID can not be tied to Trump (LGM has this about the take on Trump and COVID that tries to handwave away those deaths), how would memorializing the deaths in Yemen be different?
This is not me saying that people need to shut up about Yemen, because there are more important things to do. But I really don’t understand how my observation.
Not saying this about bobbyp, but too many people have used (and continue to use) this narcissism of small differences to undercut the progressive left.
calls for a discussion of drone strikes in Yemen. I was particularly thinking about how divide and conquer has always been an approach to dealing with the left and my use of ‘narcissism of small differences’ was to that. But if I’m wrong for not bringing up Yemen in a discussion of election tactics, it seems that I can be held responsible for anything at all.
I’m well aware of the fact that people can get pulled into fights that don’t concern them and end up flailing away. But I try not to do that. I know that I haven’t written about Yemen, I haven’t investigated it, and I’ve not invoked it here. So why are my words taken as indicating something about Yemen?
Hi Nous, thanks for this, and I hope I can respond without this getting too rancorous.
To start with a leading but I think pragmatic question, Why are we/should we memorialize them? Because something intrinsic about them? Or should we memorialize them in order to create future change? If the deaths from COVID can not be tied to Trump (LGM has this about the take on Trump and COVID that tries to handwave away those deaths), how would memorializing the deaths in Yemen be different?
This is not me saying that people need to shut up about Yemen, because there are more important things to do. But I really don’t understand how my observation.
Not saying this about bobbyp, but too many people have used (and continue to use) this narcissism of small differences to undercut the progressive left.
calls for a discussion of drone strikes in Yemen. I was particularly thinking about how divide and conquer has always been an approach to dealing with the left and my use of ‘narcissism of small differences’ was to that. But if I’m wrong for not bringing up Yemen in a discussion of election tactics, it seems that I can be held responsible for anything at all.
I’m well aware of the fact that people can get pulled into fights that don’t concern them and end up flailing away. But I try not to do that. I know that I haven’t written about Yemen, I haven’t investigated it, and I’ve not invoked it here. So why are my words taken as indicating something about Yemen?
nobody should leave ObWi.
there are too few of us left already.
nobody should leave ObWi.
there are too few of us left already.
…what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?…
The responsibility lies with the people doing the killing, and the people who have created a famine with their civil war. Which, drone strikes aside, is not the USA.
We could have a long discussion about US foreign policy – perhaps there should be a thread for it. But I can’t see it persuading many of us that Obama deserves much of the blame overall. I do not know what I would have done with the information he had and the responsibility he bore.
The West has committed two crimes this millennium which dwarf all its others: the adoption of routine torture, and the stupid and murderous war in Iraq. George W Bush was responsible for both of them. And it’s not Trump’s deep humanity or profound understanding of foreign policy which is stopping him doing worse.
…what do we do with the responsibility for all those dead Yemeni children?…
The responsibility lies with the people doing the killing, and the people who have created a famine with their civil war. Which, drone strikes aside, is not the USA.
We could have a long discussion about US foreign policy – perhaps there should be a thread for it. But I can’t see it persuading many of us that Obama deserves much of the blame overall. I do not know what I would have done with the information he had and the responsibility he bore.
The West has committed two crimes this millennium which dwarf all its others: the adoption of routine torture, and the stupid and murderous war in Iraq. George W Bush was responsible for both of them. And it’s not Trump’s deep humanity or profound understanding of foreign policy which is stopping him doing worse.
The Left needs to be united.
It rarely is.
The Left needs to be united.
It rarely is.
it’s not Trump’s deep humanity or profound understanding of foreign policy which is stopping him doing worse.
LOL. And I don’t disagree with the rest of what Pro Bono says above either.
On another note, here is an interesting piece by an ex-evangelical Christian about her experiences, explaining the mechanisms by which, and because of which, so many evangelicals resist logic about Covid-19:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/evangelical-christians-covid-19-pandemic_n_5f5b9875c5b6b48507ffc791
it’s not Trump’s deep humanity or profound understanding of foreign policy which is stopping him doing worse.
LOL. And I don’t disagree with the rest of what Pro Bono says above either.
On another note, here is an interesting piece by an ex-evangelical Christian about her experiences, explaining the mechanisms by which, and because of which, so many evangelicals resist logic about Covid-19:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/evangelical-christians-covid-19-pandemic_n_5f5b9875c5b6b48507ffc791
nobody should leave ObWi.
there are too few of us left already.
I agree with this, too. Much trouble can be avoided by observing Janie’s maxim: don’t bite hooks.
nobody should leave ObWi.
there are too few of us left already.
I agree with this, too. Much trouble can be avoided by observing Janie’s maxim: don’t bite hooks.
explaining the mechanisms by which, and because of which, so many evangelicals resist logic about Covid-19
also: evangelical Christianity in the US is tightly tangled-up in movement conservatism, so it will follow whatever nonsense the GOP tells it to follow.
ex. my MiL and her husband are Jehovah’s Witnesses, so they should have no interest in politics. but they know and believe all the latest ‘conservative’ conspiracy theories, which they get from Fox News and talk radio. and they hate Democrats for all the reasons a good ‘conservative’ should.
unquestioning religious faith and the brain-eating GOP mythology are a terrible combination.
explaining the mechanisms by which, and because of which, so many evangelicals resist logic about Covid-19
also: evangelical Christianity in the US is tightly tangled-up in movement conservatism, so it will follow whatever nonsense the GOP tells it to follow.
ex. my MiL and her husband are Jehovah’s Witnesses, so they should have no interest in politics. but they know and believe all the latest ‘conservative’ conspiracy theories, which they get from Fox News and talk radio. and they hate Democrats for all the reasons a good ‘conservative’ should.
unquestioning religious faith and the brain-eating GOP mythology are a terrible combination.
We need to look at why a war is happening, how it’s being fought, how and why we got involved, etc.
Why is it happening? Basically two things. First, the Sunnis and the Shiites are still at where the Catholics and Protestants were between say 1525 and 1700. Second, the Saudis and the Iranians, as mundane countries, are competing for power and influence across the Middle East. Yemen is merely the current theater.
How is it being fought? The Saudis and basically throwing anything and everything they’ve got into it. Constrained mostly by the fact that their actual population, from which they can man their military, is relatively small. (Even with most actual civilian jobs being done by ex-pats.) With money/technology substituting for manpower. The Iranians are mostly sticking with logistical support.
How and why did we get involved? Proximate cause: In 2001-2002, when Iran offered to provide transit for the US invasion of Afghanistan, the US opted instead to lump them into the “axis of evil.” (Which meant, as an alternative, paying Pakistan huge sums for transit. Which helped the Pakistani SIS fund the Taluban, who we were fighting. Dumb.) We’ve been taking the Saudi side in their religious wars ever since — even though it was Saudis, not Iranians, who staged 9/11.
First cause, however, would be the CIA-sponsored overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953. Not too surprisingly, Iranians still remember. Having squandered a golden opportunity in 2002, it’s not clear how we recover. Even though, given a choice of theocracies, it would make a lot more sense to ally with folks who are civilized and have been for thousands of years. Rather than those barely 2 generations removed from nomadic camel herders.
We need to look at why a war is happening, how it’s being fought, how and why we got involved, etc.
Why is it happening? Basically two things. First, the Sunnis and the Shiites are still at where the Catholics and Protestants were between say 1525 and 1700. Second, the Saudis and the Iranians, as mundane countries, are competing for power and influence across the Middle East. Yemen is merely the current theater.
How is it being fought? The Saudis and basically throwing anything and everything they’ve got into it. Constrained mostly by the fact that their actual population, from which they can man their military, is relatively small. (Even with most actual civilian jobs being done by ex-pats.) With money/technology substituting for manpower. The Iranians are mostly sticking with logistical support.
How and why did we get involved? Proximate cause: In 2001-2002, when Iran offered to provide transit for the US invasion of Afghanistan, the US opted instead to lump them into the “axis of evil.” (Which meant, as an alternative, paying Pakistan huge sums for transit. Which helped the Pakistani SIS fund the Taluban, who we were fighting. Dumb.) We’ve been taking the Saudi side in their religious wars ever since — even though it was Saudis, not Iranians, who staged 9/11.
First cause, however, would be the CIA-sponsored overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953. Not too surprisingly, Iranians still remember. Having squandered a golden opportunity in 2002, it’s not clear how we recover. Even though, given a choice of theocracies, it would make a lot more sense to ally with folks who are civilized and have been for thousands of years. Rather than those barely 2 generations removed from nomadic camel herders.
nous, where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s […]
Me, in the earlier post:
More than 3 million people have been displaced by the war overall and somewhere around 85,000 children have died of starvation between 2015 and 2018.
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
As to how this relates to the narcissism of small differences. I’m writing about the example that Donald raised because sapient keeps treating the discussion as if it is an attack on Obama’s legacy, rather than a critique of situational morals.
I don’t think Obama was a bad president. I don’t think he was callous in his use of force. I wish he had not waged a drone war, or used a drone to assassinate a US citizen, but I’m glad that he did as much to hold our foreign policy militarism at bay as he did.
But we have the foreign policy that we do because the majority of the American people love the tough guy spectacle of it all and demand that *something* be done whenever we feel our sovereignty has been belittled.
It’s why Carter lost and Reagan won. It was one of the things that cooled the GOP on Bush Sr.. It’s the reason that the Clintons embraced the hardline role on crime and abroad. It’s why we ended up in Iraq again under Jr.. And it’s why Obama could not extract himself or the rest of us from our interventionism.
At the heart of this, to get back to the issue of difference, is the recognition on the further left side that any time the media seizes hold of a photogenic threat, the moderates in the GOP will bunker with their fringe and push for intervention or retribution, and the moderates in the Democratic party will chase after their moderate friends in the GOP or try to preempt the bunkering by proposing a kinder, gentler intervention or more targeted retribution.
There are many minor differences on the left that can be bridged, but the foreign policy difference is not one of them. That’s a cleavage. And it is there because the Democratic center has decided that the cost to others is acceptable if they are to remain in power and hold back our even worse urges.
That’s pragmatic, and I’ll vote for it for pragmatic reasons. But I won’t whitewash it or celebrate the bravery of that willingness to compromise.
nous, where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s […]
Me, in the earlier post:
More than 3 million people have been displaced by the war overall and somewhere around 85,000 children have died of starvation between 2015 and 2018.
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
As to how this relates to the narcissism of small differences. I’m writing about the example that Donald raised because sapient keeps treating the discussion as if it is an attack on Obama’s legacy, rather than a critique of situational morals.
I don’t think Obama was a bad president. I don’t think he was callous in his use of force. I wish he had not waged a drone war, or used a drone to assassinate a US citizen, but I’m glad that he did as much to hold our foreign policy militarism at bay as he did.
But we have the foreign policy that we do because the majority of the American people love the tough guy spectacle of it all and demand that *something* be done whenever we feel our sovereignty has been belittled.
It’s why Carter lost and Reagan won. It was one of the things that cooled the GOP on Bush Sr.. It’s the reason that the Clintons embraced the hardline role on crime and abroad. It’s why we ended up in Iraq again under Jr.. And it’s why Obama could not extract himself or the rest of us from our interventionism.
At the heart of this, to get back to the issue of difference, is the recognition on the further left side that any time the media seizes hold of a photogenic threat, the moderates in the GOP will bunker with their fringe and push for intervention or retribution, and the moderates in the Democratic party will chase after their moderate friends in the GOP or try to preempt the bunkering by proposing a kinder, gentler intervention or more targeted retribution.
There are many minor differences on the left that can be bridged, but the foreign policy difference is not one of them. That’s a cleavage. And it is there because the Democratic center has decided that the cost to others is acceptable if they are to remain in power and hold back our even worse urges.
That’s pragmatic, and I’ll vote for it for pragmatic reasons. But I won’t whitewash it or celebrate the bravery of that willingness to compromise.
Ack, italics
Ack, italics
And it is there because the Democratic center has decided that the cost to others is acceptable if they are to remain in power and hold back our even worse urges.
it’s also possible that they actually believe the actions they are taking are correct, damn the critics.
And it is there because the Democratic center has decided that the cost to others is acceptable if they are to remain in power and hold back our even worse urges.
it’s also possible that they actually believe the actions they are taking are correct, damn the critics.
Seems like a very reasonable analysis, nous.
Seems like a very reasonable analysis, nous.
speaking of COVID and logic…
George Takei probably disagrees.
speaking of COVID and logic…
George Takei probably disagrees.
it’s also possible that they actually believe the actions they are taking are correct, damn the critics.
I would say that is likely true….but where does that get us?
The socialist left (the real true Scotts) has traditionally critiqued U.S. foreign policy going back to the days before WW1. It has been fairly consistent in its condemnation of “imperialism”.
I am given to understand they believe deeply that they are correct also! Who coulda’ known?
The post WW2 bipartisan foreign policy consensus still holds to this day for the most part, and the institutional power (aka ‘military-industrial complex’) put in place to blunt the spread of Communism serves to reinforce that meme.
And what nous said.
it’s also possible that they actually believe the actions they are taking are correct, damn the critics.
I would say that is likely true….but where does that get us?
The socialist left (the real true Scotts) has traditionally critiqued U.S. foreign policy going back to the days before WW1. It has been fairly consistent in its condemnation of “imperialism”.
I am given to understand they believe deeply that they are correct also! Who coulda’ known?
The post WW2 bipartisan foreign policy consensus still holds to this day for the most part, and the institutional power (aka ‘military-industrial complex’) put in place to blunt the spread of Communism serves to reinforce that meme.
And what nous said.
Is history a choice, or is it just a tale of people trying to deal with momentum?
Is history a choice, or is it just a tale of people trying to deal with momentum?
I would say that is likely true….but where does that get us?
it gets us to a clearer understanding of the situation. i think it’s important to keep in mind “left” is not and never has been a synonym for “pacifist” – not here, not now, nowhere, ever.
nous was distinguishing between the presumably pacifist ‘further left’ and the hawkish ‘moderate Dems’. but i say that’s an artificial distinction. you can find people on the left who are A-OK with violence – from rock-throwing socialists to moderate hawks to genocidal communists.
you can also find actual pacifists.
and the whole spectrum between.
I would say that is likely true….but where does that get us?
it gets us to a clearer understanding of the situation. i think it’s important to keep in mind “left” is not and never has been a synonym for “pacifist” – not here, not now, nowhere, ever.
nous was distinguishing between the presumably pacifist ‘further left’ and the hawkish ‘moderate Dems’. but i say that’s an artificial distinction. you can find people on the left who are A-OK with violence – from rock-throwing socialists to moderate hawks to genocidal communists.
you can also find actual pacifists.
and the whole spectrum between.
Is history a choice, or is it just a tale of people trying to deal with momentum?
Yes. Plus repeating recursive metareflection.
Is history a choice, or is it just a tale of people trying to deal with momentum?
Yes. Plus repeating recursive metareflection.
cleek – agree that the important distinctions are the ones that denote what sorts of violence are acceptable and for what purpose.
The other big issue is whether or not the people suffering the violence are seen as violence against others or some sort of violence against ourselves.
cleek – agree that the important distinctions are the ones that denote what sorts of violence are acceptable and for what purpose.
The other big issue is whether or not the people suffering the violence are seen as violence against others or some sort of violence against ourselves.
First cause, however, would be the CIA-sponsored overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953.
The long tail of shortsighted foreign policies.
“In the new documentary Coup 53, Taghi Amirani tells the story of how British and American secret agents overthrew Mossadegh after he nationalized the oil industry, starting a series of events that would lead to the rise of the autocratic, U.S.-hating Islamic regime that continues to reign to this day. Beyond its tragic effects on Iran and the Middle East, Amirani argues that the seemingly easy 1953 coup became the “playbook” for future U.S. covert actions in countries such as Guatemala, Vietnam, Chile, and beyond, forever changing the face of global politics.
In a wide-ranging conversation about immigration, foreign policy, and filmmaking, Amirani tells Nick Gillespie that Trump’s policies, like those of all U.S. leaders, are “the product of the military-industrial complex and that, ultimately, matters more” than whatever a president enters office thinking.”
Taghi Amirani: How the U.S.-Backed 1953 Coup in Iran Is Still Changing Global Politics: New documentary explains why installing the shah in 1953 led to ruinous American covert operations throughout the Cold War and beyond.
First cause, however, would be the CIA-sponsored overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953.
The long tail of shortsighted foreign policies.
“In the new documentary Coup 53, Taghi Amirani tells the story of how British and American secret agents overthrew Mossadegh after he nationalized the oil industry, starting a series of events that would lead to the rise of the autocratic, U.S.-hating Islamic regime that continues to reign to this day. Beyond its tragic effects on Iran and the Middle East, Amirani argues that the seemingly easy 1953 coup became the “playbook” for future U.S. covert actions in countries such as Guatemala, Vietnam, Chile, and beyond, forever changing the face of global politics.
In a wide-ranging conversation about immigration, foreign policy, and filmmaking, Amirani tells Nick Gillespie that Trump’s policies, like those of all U.S. leaders, are “the product of the military-industrial complex and that, ultimately, matters more” than whatever a president enters office thinking.”
Taghi Amirani: How the U.S.-Backed 1953 Coup in Iran Is Still Changing Global Politics: New documentary explains why installing the shah in 1953 led to ruinous American covert operations throughout the Cold War and beyond.
tells the story of how British and American secret agents overthrew Mossadegh
I know the US is used to being public enemy number one in Iran, but this is why (as well as being the “little satan”) we (the UK) have a reputation even to the Iranian on the street as a nation of absolute duplicity and machiavellianism. As I have told you before, my maternal grandfather, much involved in Boer politics during and after the Boer war, would have agreed: my mother told me that he never referred to England alone, it was always “England, the whore”. For some reason, I have always loved this (as well as other excellent stories about him), and very much wish I had known him.
tells the story of how British and American secret agents overthrew Mossadegh
I know the US is used to being public enemy number one in Iran, but this is why (as well as being the “little satan”) we (the UK) have a reputation even to the Iranian on the street as a nation of absolute duplicity and machiavellianism. As I have told you before, my maternal grandfather, much involved in Boer politics during and after the Boer war, would have agreed: my mother told me that he never referred to England alone, it was always “England, the whore”. For some reason, I have always loved this (as well as other excellent stories about him), and very much wish I had known him.
the US and Russia both got a little high on their WWII victories. a bit of humility would have done the world a world of good.
the US and Russia both got a little high on their WWII victories. a bit of humility would have done the world a world of good.
What the hell, cleek?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-already-rejecting-black-voters-mail-in-ballots-more-often-than-white-voters/
What the hell, cleek?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-already-rejecting-black-voters-mail-in-ballots-more-often-than-white-voters/
the US and Russia both got a little high on their WWII victories. a bit of humility would have done the world a world of good.
Easier said than done probably.
the US and Russia both got a little high on their WWII victories. a bit of humility would have done the world a world of good.
Easier said than done probably.
sounds like a lot of people are unfamiliar with the vote-by-mail process.
hopefully those voters will be able to get their issues sorted out.
sounds like a lot of people are unfamiliar with the vote-by-mail process.
hopefully those voters will be able to get their issues sorted out.
I still blame you.
I still blame you.
cleek,
What’s this witness requirement about? In our state (48th soviet of WA) a witness may sign if the voter is otherwise not able to do so, but as a regular matter of course….not required. This is a very weird requirement.
Thanks.
bobbyp
cleek,
What’s this witness requirement about? In our state (48th soviet of WA) a witness may sign if the voter is otherwise not able to do so, but as a regular matter of course….not required. This is a very weird requirement.
Thanks.
bobbyp
Another “disgruntled former employee”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/olivia-troye-coronavirus-white-house/2020/09/17/d3f67ede-f8ed-11ea-a510-f57d8ce76e11_story.html
At some point you have to wonder. Even if these people all are, just as the White House says, “disgruntled former employees,” how is it that such a huge number of former employees are disgruntled? Might that say something about the employer?
Another “disgruntled former employee”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/olivia-troye-coronavirus-white-house/2020/09/17/d3f67ede-f8ed-11ea-a510-f57d8ce76e11_story.html
At some point you have to wonder. Even if these people all are, just as the White House says, “disgruntled former employees,” how is it that such a huge number of former employees are disgruntled? Might that say something about the employer?
“Might that say something about the employer?”
Of course. He, Trump only hires the best gruntled employees. Yugely gruntled. You’ve never seen such gruntled people.
“Might that say something about the employer?”
Of course. He, Trump only hires the best gruntled employees. Yugely gruntled. You’ve never seen such gruntled people.
I still blame you.
A sound move, no matter what the circumstances.
I still blame you.
A sound move, no matter what the circumstances.
What’s this witness requirement about?
Some states — a small number — require that the signature on the absentee ballot return envelope (or wherever in the return package the signature goes) be witnessed, and the witness has to sign. From memory, all states have gotten rid of requirements to have the voter’s signature notarized.
What’s this witness requirement about?
Some states — a small number — require that the signature on the absentee ballot return envelope (or wherever in the return package the signature goes) be witnessed, and the witness has to sign. From memory, all states have gotten rid of requirements to have the voter’s signature notarized.
A link with more details about drone warfare and counter-terrorism in Yemen
https://www.newamerica.org/international-security/reports/americas-counterterrorism-wars/the-war-in-yemen/
A link with more details about drone warfare and counter-terrorism in Yemen
https://www.newamerica.org/international-security/reports/americas-counterterrorism-wars/the-war-in-yemen/
i think it’s important to keep in mind “left” is not and never has been a synonym for “pacifist”
LOL…well, I’m not at all certain that folks (leftists or otherwise) are making that general claim (i.e., Leftists are pacifists). As you note, there are many kinds. There are also “right” pacifists, religious pacifists, cowardly pacifists, opportunistic pacifists, etc., etc.
Just about any of them would kill you at the drop of a hat under the right circumstances…damned animals. 🙂
I guess it all comes down to the particulars of the situation. This enables everybody to get into the weeds, get lost in the details, overwhelmed by the complexity…yadda, yadda.
i think it’s important to keep in mind “left” is not and never has been a synonym for “pacifist”
LOL…well, I’m not at all certain that folks (leftists or otherwise) are making that general claim (i.e., Leftists are pacifists). As you note, there are many kinds. There are also “right” pacifists, religious pacifists, cowardly pacifists, opportunistic pacifists, etc., etc.
Just about any of them would kill you at the drop of a hat under the right circumstances…damned animals. 🙂
I guess it all comes down to the particulars of the situation. This enables everybody to get into the weeds, get lost in the details, overwhelmed by the complexity…yadda, yadda.
Thanks, lj.
Hillary of “the Clintons” chose as her Vice Presidential candidate Tim Kaine, junior Senator from Virginia (my Senator). Each year, it seems, he releases statements like this.
He’s long been an advocate for the Senate debating and considering our involvement in foreign wars. He was one of Obama’s very first supporters, having gone to law school with him. He challenged Obama’s policies despite their friendship, but mostly stood up for having Congress take some responsibility (and heat). Democrats do disagree, but I think people are very confused about which Democrats think what.
In the meantime, we have to remember that Democrats think. Wildly different than what we’re getting from our current government, no?
Thanks, lj.
Hillary of “the Clintons” chose as her Vice Presidential candidate Tim Kaine, junior Senator from Virginia (my Senator). Each year, it seems, he releases statements like this.
He’s long been an advocate for the Senate debating and considering our involvement in foreign wars. He was one of Obama’s very first supporters, having gone to law school with him. He challenged Obama’s policies despite their friendship, but mostly stood up for having Congress take some responsibility (and heat). Democrats do disagree, but I think people are very confused about which Democrats think what.
In the meantime, we have to remember that Democrats think. Wildly different than what we’re getting from our current government, no?
Oklahoma still has a notary requirement.
https://www.ok.gov/elections/Voter_Info/FAQ_For_Notaries_Public.html
Oklahoma still has a notary requirement.
https://www.ok.gov/elections/Voter_Info/FAQ_For_Notaries_Public.html
On the other hand (from Priest’s link)
So, still a requirement. But with a significant relaxation in current circumstances.
On the other hand (from Priest’s link)
So, still a requirement. But with a significant relaxation in current circumstances.
“ where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s, and we really don’t have the details about what’s going on anymore, because unlike Obama, Trump decided not to stop disclosing information about them?”
Yeah, good question, but not in the sense you mean. I have sometimes linked to the Airwars site, which makes precisely the point with graphs that civilian deaths under American bombing in Iraq and Syria went up dramatically under Trump. Restrictions were eased.
Guess who talks about Trump’s war crimes, in Yemen and elsewhere? Pretty much the same damn people who talked about Obama’s war crimes. Because people who regularly pay attention to the issue don’t treat it like some stupid partisan game. Imagine that.
Incidentally, though Trump is the man in charge, people have to carry out those orders. There was a long piece in the Nyt Sunday magazine a few years ago about our bombing and it spanned, iirc, both the Obama and early Trump years. They went around Iraq and interviewed and found that the number of air strikes which caused civilian casualties was 30 times larger than the number acknowledged by the Pentagon. That isn’t all the fault of the President.
“ where’s the outrage about the fact that Trump’s drone war in his first three years far exceeded Obama’s, and we really don’t have the details about what’s going on anymore, because unlike Obama, Trump decided not to stop disclosing information about them?”
Yeah, good question, but not in the sense you mean. I have sometimes linked to the Airwars site, which makes precisely the point with graphs that civilian deaths under American bombing in Iraq and Syria went up dramatically under Trump. Restrictions were eased.
Guess who talks about Trump’s war crimes, in Yemen and elsewhere? Pretty much the same damn people who talked about Obama’s war crimes. Because people who regularly pay attention to the issue don’t treat it like some stupid partisan game. Imagine that.
Incidentally, though Trump is the man in charge, people have to carry out those orders. There was a long piece in the Nyt Sunday magazine a few years ago about our bombing and it spanned, iirc, both the Obama and early Trump years. They went around Iraq and interviewed and found that the number of air strikes which caused civilian casualties was 30 times larger than the number acknowledged by the Pentagon. That isn’t all the fault of the President.
The nyt Sunday magazine piece
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/16/magazine/uncounted-civilian-casualties-iraq-airstrikes.html
The nyt Sunday magazine piece
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/16/magazine/uncounted-civilian-casualties-iraq-airstrikes.html
Airwars site. Scroll down a bit. The graph goes way up under Trump.
https://airwars.org/conflict/coalition-in-iraq-and-syria/
Airwars site. Scroll down a bit. The graph goes way up under Trump.
https://airwars.org/conflict/coalition-in-iraq-and-syria/
A passage from the nyt piece describing the methodology. Notice the date when a rule allowing more air strikes was changed— Dec 2016. And their study which found enormous undercounting of civilian deaths was all in the Obama era. It got worse under Trump, but the problem is there regardless.
The passage —
“ all. These areas encompassed the range of ISIS-controlled settlements in size and population makeup: downtown Shura, a small provincial town that was largely abandoned during periods of heavy fighting; downtown Qaiyara, a suburban municipality; and Aden, a densely packed city neighborhood in eastern Mosul. The sample would arguably provide a conservative estimate of the civilian toll: It did not include western Mosul, which may have suffered the highest number of civilian deaths in the entire war. Nor did it include any strikes conducted after December 2016, when a rule change allowed more ground commanders to call in strikes, possibly contributing to a sharp increase in the death toll.”
A passage from the nyt piece describing the methodology. Notice the date when a rule allowing more air strikes was changed— Dec 2016. And their study which found enormous undercounting of civilian deaths was all in the Obama era. It got worse under Trump, but the problem is there regardless.
The passage —
“ all. These areas encompassed the range of ISIS-controlled settlements in size and population makeup: downtown Shura, a small provincial town that was largely abandoned during periods of heavy fighting; downtown Qaiyara, a suburban municipality; and Aden, a densely packed city neighborhood in eastern Mosul. The sample would arguably provide a conservative estimate of the civilian toll: It did not include western Mosul, which may have suffered the highest number of civilian deaths in the entire war. Nor did it include any strikes conducted after December 2016, when a rule change allowed more ground commanders to call in strikes, possibly contributing to a sharp increase in the death toll.”
LOL…well, I’m not at all certain that folks (leftists or otherwise) are making that general claim
LOL…well, i explained the context.
LOL…well, I’m not at all certain that folks (leftists or otherwise) are making that general claim
LOL…well, i explained the context.
I still blame you.
can’t blame me. it was like this when i got here! (i assume).
i don’t vote absentee. not this year, either. Oct 15th, i’m going to be there in person, masked and ready.
I still blame you.
can’t blame me. it was like this when i got here! (i assume).
i don’t vote absentee. not this year, either. Oct 15th, i’m going to be there in person, masked and ready.
For standard absentee ballot affidavits (yellow stripe), the affidavit may be notarized OR the voter may submit a copy of a valid ID. [Emphasis in original]
I wonder how many people who will be requesting an absentee ballot can’t produce a copy of their ID without leaving the house/apartment, or having someone come in to assist them? Are the elderly a protected group in Oklahoma, in the sense that procedures can’t discriminate against them?
For standard absentee ballot affidavits (yellow stripe), the affidavit may be notarized OR the voter may submit a copy of a valid ID. [Emphasis in original]
I wonder how many people who will be requesting an absentee ballot can’t produce a copy of their ID without leaving the house/apartment, or having someone come in to assist them? Are the elderly a protected group in Oklahoma, in the sense that procedures can’t discriminate against them?
Now there is a group called “Democrat (Sic!) Voters Against Joe Biden.” to counter “Republican Voters Against Trump”. Run by a GOP operative to no one’s surprise.
What’s next? Faggots for the Fuehrer, Dykes for Donald, Jim Crow against Joe, Cvnts for the King, Old Crones for Don of Orange?
Now there is a group called “Democrat (Sic!) Voters Against Joe Biden.” to counter “Republican Voters Against Trump”. Run by a GOP operative to no one’s surprise.
What’s next? Faggots for the Fuehrer, Dykes for Donald, Jim Crow against Joe, Cvnts for the King, Old Crones for Don of Orange?
don’t call it a cult.
don’t call it a cult.
“What’s next?”
Swift Boat Liars for Bush.
They got doxxed online, which was removed, but not before I snagged a copy. Perhaps their all dead now, but if not, I hope the Karmavirus gets ’em.
“What’s next?”
Swift Boat Liars for Bush.
They got doxxed online, which was removed, but not before I snagged a copy. Perhaps their all dead now, but if not, I hope the Karmavirus gets ’em.
What’s next?
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead.
Kill the Republican Party.
What’s next?
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead.
Kill the Republican Party.
Them contradictions are about to get pretty fucking high.
Them contradictions are about to get pretty fucking high.
How convenient (for him) that McConnell is a true disciple of Trump when it comes to directly contradicting himself whenever it is convenient. Naturally not an instant’s delay can be allowed in getting a new Justice onto the Supreme Court. No matter that we have an election a mere 6 weeks (not 7 months) off.
How convenient (for him) that McConnell is a true disciple of Trump when it comes to directly contradicting himself whenever it is convenient. Naturally not an instant’s delay can be allowed in getting a new Justice onto the Supreme Court. No matter that we have an election a mere 6 weeks (not 7 months) off.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed. She was an outstanding jurist, citizen, and human being.
May her memory be a blessing.
All of the noise about not nominating someone for an empty SCOTUS seat during an election year will be thrown out the window, immediately. Because the (R)’s are unprincipled whores for power.
It is, really, impossible to measure my utter lack of respect for them as a party and as an organization. And, in no few cases, as people.
They are, as a group, a pack of scoundrels.
They have become a cancer on the nation. Drive them from public office any and everywhere you can.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed. She was an outstanding jurist, citizen, and human being.
May her memory be a blessing.
All of the noise about not nominating someone for an empty SCOTUS seat during an election year will be thrown out the window, immediately. Because the (R)’s are unprincipled whores for power.
It is, really, impossible to measure my utter lack of respect for them as a party and as an organization. And, in no few cases, as people.
They are, as a group, a pack of scoundrels.
They have become a cancer on the nation. Drive them from public office any and everywhere you can.
Cancel culture!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/21/online-attacks-follow-kenosha-shootings-continuing-grim-trend/5857523002/
Damned Marxists…
Cancel culture!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/21/online-attacks-follow-kenosha-shootings-continuing-grim-trend/5857523002/
Damned Marxists…
if only they’d stop worshipping Mao.
if only they’d stop worshipping Mao.
Mao, you say?
Mao, you say?
The last paragraphs of hsh’s link:
This has been on my mind a lot through the discussion of the SC. It’s comforting in a weird way to go down into a deep silo of thought about how possibly to fix our broken government. But even if we could be rosy about the prospects of that, we have other probably bigger, more intractable problems facing us. The two that I keep thinking about are climate change and the poisonous side of the internet — the flowering of toxic nonsense like QAnon until its followers are actually running for Congress, openly; this kind of stalking of victims of crime; etc. I don’t have a clue what can be done about it, but it’s helping ruin us.
The last paragraphs of hsh’s link:
This has been on my mind a lot through the discussion of the SC. It’s comforting in a weird way to go down into a deep silo of thought about how possibly to fix our broken government. But even if we could be rosy about the prospects of that, we have other probably bigger, more intractable problems facing us. The two that I keep thinking about are climate change and the poisonous side of the internet — the flowering of toxic nonsense like QAnon until its followers are actually running for Congress, openly; this kind of stalking of victims of crime; etc. I don’t have a clue what can be done about it, but it’s helping ruin us.
i’m not sure what can be done about Q et al. ‘free speech’ means that what people tell each other, even if stupid and poisonous, is beyond what government can regulate.
maybe the fact that this poison has found so many people eager to drink it is a failing of our education system?
maybe we should try what Denmark does and teach kids the skills to tell what’s real and what isn’t.
i’m sure that would run afoul of some deeply-held “conservative” principle, though.
i’m not sure what can be done about Q et al. ‘free speech’ means that what people tell each other, even if stupid and poisonous, is beyond what government can regulate.
maybe the fact that this poison has found so many people eager to drink it is a failing of our education system?
maybe we should try what Denmark does and teach kids the skills to tell what’s real and what isn’t.
i’m sure that would run afoul of some deeply-held “conservative” principle, though.
‘free speech’ means that what people tell each other, even if stupid and poisonous, is beyond what government can regulate
“Free speech” isn’t any more absolute than any of our other freedoms. But even more to my point:
i’m not sure what can be done about Q et al.
Well, you’ve already suggested one item that might be on the list of things that might be done to address the problem of Q et al:
maybe we should try what Denmark does and teach kids the skills to tell what’s real and what isn’t.
‘free speech’ means that what people tell each other, even if stupid and poisonous, is beyond what government can regulate
“Free speech” isn’t any more absolute than any of our other freedoms. But even more to my point:
i’m not sure what can be done about Q et al.
Well, you’ve already suggested one item that might be on the list of things that might be done to address the problem of Q et al:
maybe we should try what Denmark does and teach kids the skills to tell what’s real and what isn’t.
I’m sure nous could delve into how better to teach media literacy and critical thinking. From what I’ve seen, people fall for some obvious bullsh*t with alarming regularity. And it’s not exclusive to people on the right, though it appears to be significantly worse on the right than the left (if I can be so binary for the sake of simplicity). It could be bias that makes me see things that way, but even when I try to take that into account, it still looks that way.
Either way, falling for obvious bullsh*t isn’t good, regardless of one’s political persuasion.
I’m sure nous could delve into how better to teach media literacy and critical thinking. From what I’ve seen, people fall for some obvious bullsh*t with alarming regularity. And it’s not exclusive to people on the right, though it appears to be significantly worse on the right than the left (if I can be so binary for the sake of simplicity). It could be bias that makes me see things that way, but even when I try to take that into account, it still looks that way.
Either way, falling for obvious bullsh*t isn’t good, regardless of one’s political persuasion.
First, a recommendation for our Donald, though I’ll be surprised if he hasn’t already read it.
Garry Wills’ “Bomb Power”, 2010, regarding how we reached this moment, with the security state calculations of both sides since World War II, via our thoroughly unconstitutional monopoly and arrogation of power in the Executive Branch in foreign affairs and gradually in domestic affairs … and now the Devil is going to go full bore autocratic security oppressive police state domestically, using all of the “precedents” Wills points to since 1945.
Now ….
One side’s demagogue and his filth attorney just declared open season murder and assault on the press and citizens like Grosskeurtz.
The other side needs to do it, too, with my side bringing exponential violence to those who steal our voting franchise and kill us in the streets and threaten our loved ones either by physical violence or the killing violence of their lawless law-making and breaking.
Only grand gestures of outrageous hypocrisy will defeat and kill the sincere, hateful, ruthless, murderous conservative movement here and around the world.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-delights-in-fed-violence-against-journalists-its-actually-a-beautiful-sight
After all, heartland Christian Harry Truman never flinched a hypocritical eyebrow nor looked back in regret, in fact, he was nearly hysterically joyful, as he dropped two atom bombs on enemy civilians, and today’s self-proclaimed heartland Christians and their political party view more than half of their fellow American citizenry as so many expendable slant-eyed faggot, feminazi, Marxist, elite, deep state, politically correct, liberal jewboy (have you heard Tucker Carlson’s latest on Soros?) black, brown and yellow japs.
This election is their imagined fending off all of the combined evils, a great and final end times war conflagration, in their savage minds.
The only logical next step beyond their lathered rhetoric is murdering all of us. There is no more extreme rhetoric to be had without now acting it out>
Their problem, and ours, is that they are NOT hypocrites.
I’m halfway through the “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer and it is … illuminating and striking …. how many times the author begins a paragraph, in so many words, with “If only (here insert any of Hitler’s victims) had read “Mein Kampf”, they would have expected (here insert whatever doom befell Hitler’s victims).
Mein Kampf was Hitler’s cookbook. He followed every recipe to the teaspoon.
Just so, the trump conservative movement’s actions going forward have all been laid out for us in their clearly expressed instructional manuals over the past 50 years.
Not to follow this to it’s logical endgame would make them hypocrites, and if there is anything they hate, it’s hypocrisy.
In other news, Rod Dreher and his commentariat are keening for martyrdom, or is it martydom?
I’m all in on granting them their deserved doom.
Dreher quotes Scalia, regarding EVIL from this interview:
https://nymag.com/news/features/antonin-scalia-2013-10/index3.html
As with all other conservative, crypto-unChristian, mullah horseshit, I have lately been borrowing the term “EVIL” to describe Trump.*
Scalia believed in the material reality of the Devil.
It’s a shame he couldn’t have lived to serve his Devil incarnate, Donald Trump, (while also substituting his judicial robes with the iron governance robes and the swords of the Vatican Rome of the Middle Ages and the 20th Century Vatican that turned a blind eye to the Holocaust) who, along with his savage minions, is intent on casting more than half of the American people out of their unilaterally conservative minority piece of shit kingdom of a savage, unjust, punishing god.
Dreher is summoning EVIL, in the material reality of Trump, to cast us out, by every fucking means, just as the Russian Orthodox Church has cast it’s authoritarian lot as the licking lapdog of subhuman murderer Putin.
The fine people of Belarus must rise up and butcher their oppressors.
https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Alexander+Lukashenko+Belarus&qpvt=Alexander+Lukashenko+Belarus&FORM=EWRE
It will be a full-dress rehearsal for what’s coming to Russia’s and China’s, and England’s and Hungary’s, and Turkey’s, and Israel’s, and Syria’s, and Iran’s, and India’s, and North Korea’s …. and America’s ruling nationalist, crypto-religious conservative movements.
*As I re-read this comment, I know that it doesn’t sound quite as sincere and certain as similar conservative statements of their plans to disrupt and remake America over the past 40-50 years, as they fondle their semi-automatics.
I mean, who is more ruthlessly dangerous, a guy who invokes the Devil but who can hardly keep from bursting into laughter .. that would be me … at the invocation, or a guy, now to be joined by another woman, at the highest pinnacles of power, who sincerely pledges a belief in the Devil and points to over half of the America as his and her Devil’s incarnation, while serving the Devil Trump himself incarnate.**
Obviously, my side needs to work on that.
At the gun ranges.
**I’m under no illusion that the so-called American conservative movement and its God-botherers and fascist wannabes suffer from a shallow or depleted bench of fucking Devils once Trump croaks.
Their EVIL is legion, as must be their doom, electoral or otherwise.
First, a recommendation for our Donald, though I’ll be surprised if he hasn’t already read it.
Garry Wills’ “Bomb Power”, 2010, regarding how we reached this moment, with the security state calculations of both sides since World War II, via our thoroughly unconstitutional monopoly and arrogation of power in the Executive Branch in foreign affairs and gradually in domestic affairs … and now the Devil is going to go full bore autocratic security oppressive police state domestically, using all of the “precedents” Wills points to since 1945.
Now ….
One side’s demagogue and his filth attorney just declared open season murder and assault on the press and citizens like Grosskeurtz.
The other side needs to do it, too, with my side bringing exponential violence to those who steal our voting franchise and kill us in the streets and threaten our loved ones either by physical violence or the killing violence of their lawless law-making and breaking.
Only grand gestures of outrageous hypocrisy will defeat and kill the sincere, hateful, ruthless, murderous conservative movement here and around the world.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-delights-in-fed-violence-against-journalists-its-actually-a-beautiful-sight
After all, heartland Christian Harry Truman never flinched a hypocritical eyebrow nor looked back in regret, in fact, he was nearly hysterically joyful, as he dropped two atom bombs on enemy civilians, and today’s self-proclaimed heartland Christians and their political party view more than half of their fellow American citizenry as so many expendable slant-eyed faggot, feminazi, Marxist, elite, deep state, politically correct, liberal jewboy (have you heard Tucker Carlson’s latest on Soros?) black, brown and yellow japs.
This election is their imagined fending off all of the combined evils, a great and final end times war conflagration, in their savage minds.
The only logical next step beyond their lathered rhetoric is murdering all of us. There is no more extreme rhetoric to be had without now acting it out>
Their problem, and ours, is that they are NOT hypocrites.
I’m halfway through the “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer and it is … illuminating and striking …. how many times the author begins a paragraph, in so many words, with “If only (here insert any of Hitler’s victims) had read “Mein Kampf”, they would have expected (here insert whatever doom befell Hitler’s victims).
Mein Kampf was Hitler’s cookbook. He followed every recipe to the teaspoon.
Just so, the trump conservative movement’s actions going forward have all been laid out for us in their clearly expressed instructional manuals over the past 50 years.
Not to follow this to it’s logical endgame would make them hypocrites, and if there is anything they hate, it’s hypocrisy.
In other news, Rod Dreher and his commentariat are keening for martyrdom, or is it martydom?
I’m all in on granting them their deserved doom.
Dreher quotes Scalia, regarding EVIL from this interview:
https://nymag.com/news/features/antonin-scalia-2013-10/index3.html
As with all other conservative, crypto-unChristian, mullah horseshit, I have lately been borrowing the term “EVIL” to describe Trump.*
Scalia believed in the material reality of the Devil.
It’s a shame he couldn’t have lived to serve his Devil incarnate, Donald Trump, (while also substituting his judicial robes with the iron governance robes and the swords of the Vatican Rome of the Middle Ages and the 20th Century Vatican that turned a blind eye to the Holocaust) who, along with his savage minions, is intent on casting more than half of the American people out of their unilaterally conservative minority piece of shit kingdom of a savage, unjust, punishing god.
Dreher is summoning EVIL, in the material reality of Trump, to cast us out, by every fucking means, just as the Russian Orthodox Church has cast it’s authoritarian lot as the licking lapdog of subhuman murderer Putin.
The fine people of Belarus must rise up and butcher their oppressors.
https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Alexander+Lukashenko+Belarus&qpvt=Alexander+Lukashenko+Belarus&FORM=EWRE
It will be a full-dress rehearsal for what’s coming to Russia’s and China’s, and England’s and Hungary’s, and Turkey’s, and Israel’s, and Syria’s, and Iran’s, and India’s, and North Korea’s …. and America’s ruling nationalist, crypto-religious conservative movements.
*As I re-read this comment, I know that it doesn’t sound quite as sincere and certain as similar conservative statements of their plans to disrupt and remake America over the past 40-50 years, as they fondle their semi-automatics.
I mean, who is more ruthlessly dangerous, a guy who invokes the Devil but who can hardly keep from bursting into laughter .. that would be me … at the invocation, or a guy, now to be joined by another woman, at the highest pinnacles of power, who sincerely pledges a belief in the Devil and points to over half of the America as his and her Devil’s incarnation, while serving the Devil Trump himself incarnate.**
Obviously, my side needs to work on that.
At the gun ranges.
**I’m under no illusion that the so-called American conservative movement and its God-botherers and fascist wannabes suffer from a shallow or depleted bench of fucking Devils once Trump croaks.
Their EVIL is legion, as must be their doom, electoral or otherwise.
As an afterthought, not only is “free speech” not absolute even in our present system, but if our system is so broken that we’re in danger of falling apart or no longer being what we thought we were or wanted to be, a lot of things will and should be on the table for discussion.
“Free speech” is an even more many-tentacled concept than “9 justices on the Supreme Court,” and one that surely should be looked at in new ways once new tools are invented that test the definitions and limits we have in place to handle old tools.
I’m not saying speech will have to be [allowed to be] squelched, I’m not saying anything more specific than that there’s a big problem — the automobile analogy is a nice one — that has to be addressed. Maybe the line that defines harassment will have to be adjusted. Maybe penalties will have to get worse once that line is crossed. Maybe a lot of things…that’s the point of brainstorming solutions.
As an afterthought, not only is “free speech” not absolute even in our present system, but if our system is so broken that we’re in danger of falling apart or no longer being what we thought we were or wanted to be, a lot of things will and should be on the table for discussion.
“Free speech” is an even more many-tentacled concept than “9 justices on the Supreme Court,” and one that surely should be looked at in new ways once new tools are invented that test the definitions and limits we have in place to handle old tools.
I’m not saying speech will have to be [allowed to be] squelched, I’m not saying anything more specific than that there’s a big problem — the automobile analogy is a nice one — that has to be addressed. Maybe the line that defines harassment will have to be adjusted. Maybe penalties will have to get worse once that line is crossed. Maybe a lot of things…that’s the point of brainstorming solutions.
It could be bias that makes me see things that way, but even when I try to take that into account, it still looks that way.
i think the right’s decade’s-long drive to convince the laity to distrust any media that isn’t GOP-approved has worked spectacularly well. they propagate their myths and distrust anyone who challenges them.
the left has nothing like that. there are partisan outlets, and dedicated lefties complain about TFNYT. but there’s nothing like the closed system the right has created for itself.
It could be bias that makes me see things that way, but even when I try to take that into account, it still looks that way.
i think the right’s decade’s-long drive to convince the laity to distrust any media that isn’t GOP-approved has worked spectacularly well. they propagate their myths and distrust anyone who challenges them.
the left has nothing like that. there are partisan outlets, and dedicated lefties complain about TFNYT. but there’s nothing like the closed system the right has created for itself.
I think back to political talk radio in the 1990s. IIRC, there were a few attempts to air liberal analogs to the likes of Limbaugh, but it didn’t go anywhere. Bullsh*t on the radio >>> bullsh*t on the intertubes. A “conservative” legacy.
I think back to political talk radio in the 1990s. IIRC, there were a few attempts to air liberal analogs to the likes of Limbaugh, but it didn’t go anywhere. Bullsh*t on the radio >>> bullsh*t on the intertubes. A “conservative” legacy.
The “money = speech” decision is where “free speech” went off the rails. That sentence illustrates the oxymoron, no?
The “money = speech” decision is where “free speech” went off the rails. That sentence illustrates the oxymoron, no?
bullets = speech is the next frontier.
bullets = speech is the next frontier.
Free money! Free bullets! When will speech = Willy?
Free money! Free bullets! When will speech = Willy?
Making me laugh, hsh! Unbelievable!
Making me laugh, hsh! Unbelievable!
The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.
The reason they give is that such teachings lead to kids questioning traditional and parental authority.
The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.
The reason they give is that such teachings lead to kids questioning traditional and parental authority.
The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.
The reason they give is that such teachings lead to kids questioning traditional and parental authority.
And, depending on exactly what that “traditional and parental authority” teaches, they’re not wrong!
The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.
The reason they give is that such teachings lead to kids questioning traditional and parental authority.
And, depending on exactly what that “traditional and parental authority” teaches, they’re not wrong!
“The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.”
So does North Korea.
And all of their children are Manchurian candidates.
“The Texas GOP platform explicitly condemns teaching kids critical thinking skills.”
So does North Korea.
And all of their children are Manchurian candidates.
Free Willy!
Isn’t that Trump’s come-on line as he enters beauty queen undressing rooms?
Or, is it, “Grab Willy!”?
Free Willy!
Isn’t that Trump’s come-on line as he enters beauty queen undressing rooms?
Or, is it, “Grab Willy!”?
I doubt that North Korea is explicit about that.
Communist states LOVE criticism, provided it is self-criticism on demand.
I doubt that North Korea is explicit about that.
Communist states LOVE criticism, provided it is self-criticism on demand.
The shooting of Gaige Grosskreutz and the killing of two others seems to be a case of a critical mass of idiots in close proximity.
The shooting of Gaige Grosskreutz and the killing of two others seems to be a case of a critical mass of idiots in close proximity.
Making me laugh, hsh! Unbelievable!
Then I’ve already had a good day.
Making me laugh, hsh! Unbelievable!
Then I’ve already had a good day.
A link about our immoral intervention in Syria.
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1309161337344479241
I actually have a long foreign policy rant ( not just Yemen) against both Trump and his critics, but am not sure I am in the mood for the argument. It can probably wait a few months, especially if Biden wins. I fervently hope he does. I also expect I will despise much of his foreign policy. ( Not all — he is critical of the Yemen War.)
But I wanted to put that link up.
A link about our immoral intervention in Syria.
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1309161337344479241
I actually have a long foreign policy rant ( not just Yemen) against both Trump and his critics, but am not sure I am in the mood for the argument. It can probably wait a few months, especially if Biden wins. I fervently hope he does. I also expect I will despise much of his foreign policy. ( Not all — he is critical of the Yemen War.)
But I wanted to put that link up.
i’m thinking the country might be in a de-escalation kind of mood. if so, and if Biden gets the right kind of advice, maybe the doves will be able to make some ground once President Nobrains is out.
i’m thinking the country might be in a de-escalation kind of mood. if so, and if Biden gets the right kind of advice, maybe the doves will be able to make some ground once President Nobrains is out.
no justice for Breonna Taylor.
defund them.
no justice for Breonna Taylor.
defund them.
Again with “It is what it is.”
These guys have too much Mafia in their bloodlines, if I may fucking morally preen for a minute.
At a speech that was supposed to be totally presidential and was totally campaigning in North Carolina, he signing an executive order that says that it is it “the policy of the United States” to protect people with preexisting conditions. That’s it. Oh, and if Congress doesn’t pass a law on surprise billing by January 1, 2021, the administration will do … something. Why not do it now, reporters asked Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. “It is what it is,” he said. Just like more than 200,000 Americans dead from coronavirus. These guys are such cards.
Meanwhile, inconvenient ballots are thrown into the trunk of a car and buried upstate.
Again with “It is what it is.”
These guys have too much Mafia in their bloodlines, if I may fucking morally preen for a minute.
At a speech that was supposed to be totally presidential and was totally campaigning in North Carolina, he signing an executive order that says that it is it “the policy of the United States” to protect people with preexisting conditions. That’s it. Oh, and if Congress doesn’t pass a law on surprise billing by January 1, 2021, the administration will do … something. Why not do it now, reporters asked Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. “It is what it is,” he said. Just like more than 200,000 Americans dead from coronavirus. These guys are such cards.
Meanwhile, inconvenient ballots are thrown into the trunk of a car and buried upstate.
Third paragraph should have quotes fore and aft.
Third paragraph should have quotes fore and aft.
Two things.
Stop killing black people.
Stop killing cops.
And, confiscate all guns to prevent future shootings.
Here is a photo of fascist theocratic moral preening of the first order against which my moral preening is merely a mild breeze in the thorn tree.
https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/trump-christian-leaders-4.jpg
Two things.
Stop killing black people.
Stop killing cops.
And, confiscate all guns to prevent future shootings.
Here is a photo of fascist theocratic moral preening of the first order against which my moral preening is merely a mild breeze in the thorn tree.
https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/trump-christian-leaders-4.jpg
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
This is the exact conversation I was having last night sitting in the (outdoor and socially distanced) beer garden of a local brewery. I really know how to have fun.
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
This is the exact conversation I was having last night sitting in the (outdoor and socially distanced) beer garden of a local brewery. I really know how to have fun.
beer makes all things better!
Mrs C and i did a good 30 minutes on the racial implications of Chief Wahoo last night (she’s from Cleveland). there was Knob Creek involvment. good times!
beer makes all things better!
Mrs C and i did a good 30 minutes on the racial implications of Chief Wahoo last night (she’s from Cleveland). there was Knob Creek involvment. good times!
One would like to be a fly on the wall to overhear the moral preening among the Generals in the U.S. military about whether or not to enforce, under the orders from the President of the United States, the theft of an American Presidential election, and further, whether or not to murder and disappear those from whom the election was stolen.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-pentagon-brass-privately-discussing-what-to-do-if-trump-invokes-insurrection-act
One would like to be a fly on the wall to overhear the moral preening among the Generals in the U.S. military about whether or not to enforce, under the orders from the President of the United States, the theft of an American Presidential election, and further, whether or not to murder and disappear those from whom the election was stolen.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-pentagon-brass-privately-discussing-what-to-do-if-trump-invokes-insurrection-act
Happy birthday, cleek, you mere youth and stripling!
Happy birthday, cleek, you mere youth and stripling!
I aspire to be so full of shit and hypocritical that I am beyond the grasp of the US justice system, but conservative republican filth are always one step ahead of me and the law:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/24/1980451/-Judge-tosses-defamation-suit-against-Tucker-Carlson-any-reasonable-viewer-shouldn-t-believe-him
So, now, Carlson and company and their free willies are the moral preening equivalent of a bottle of strychnine with a skull and crossbones emblazoned on the label or a syringe full of the purest heroin handed to the addict by a cackling pusher, or perhaps a loaded gun pointed by a fascist subhuman conservative at his own testicles.
Vermin proceed at their own risk.
I mean, what did you think was going to happen?
That explains how it is that the murder/suicide of Herman Cain has resulted in zero lawsuits, but only dozens of posthumous tweets from the perpetrator blaming Dr. Fauci.
I aspire to be so full of shit and hypocritical that I am beyond the grasp of the US justice system, but conservative republican filth are always one step ahead of me and the law:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/24/1980451/-Judge-tosses-defamation-suit-against-Tucker-Carlson-any-reasonable-viewer-shouldn-t-believe-him
So, now, Carlson and company and their free willies are the moral preening equivalent of a bottle of strychnine with a skull and crossbones emblazoned on the label or a syringe full of the purest heroin handed to the addict by a cackling pusher, or perhaps a loaded gun pointed by a fascist subhuman conservative at his own testicles.
Vermin proceed at their own risk.
I mean, what did you think was going to happen?
That explains how it is that the murder/suicide of Herman Cain has resulted in zero lawsuits, but only dozens of posthumous tweets from the perpetrator blaming Dr. Fauci.
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
Correct. Citizens have a right to protect themselves, and even if the police announce themselves, unless there is time to confirm that it is, in fact, the police, a citizen can and should take steps for self defense. The fact is, anyone can claim to be the police.
Reform is long overdue to limit no-knock’s to identifiable threats to public safety with mandatory body cameras. Aside from killing a perfectly innocent person, the second most disturbing thing about this is that none of the officers seem to have had body cameras. That makes the officers’ story suspect.
I’d like to know a lot more about the Louisville PD’s body cam policy. I wrote a body cam policy for an EMS client of mine. Properly written and enforced, there is no excuse for not having a camera on. There should have been three in this case. Too much of a coincidence for all three to lay down.
dear “law and order” types: ‘no-knock warrants’ and the ‘castle doctrine’ and ‘stand your ground’ can’t co-exist. pick one.
Correct. Citizens have a right to protect themselves, and even if the police announce themselves, unless there is time to confirm that it is, in fact, the police, a citizen can and should take steps for self defense. The fact is, anyone can claim to be the police.
Reform is long overdue to limit no-knock’s to identifiable threats to public safety with mandatory body cameras. Aside from killing a perfectly innocent person, the second most disturbing thing about this is that none of the officers seem to have had body cameras. That makes the officers’ story suspect.
I’d like to know a lot more about the Louisville PD’s body cam policy. I wrote a body cam policy for an EMS client of mine. Properly written and enforced, there is no excuse for not having a camera on. There should have been three in this case. Too much of a coincidence for all three to lay down.
Happy birthday, cleek, you mere youth and stripling!
Seconded!
The 50’s are a great decade. I think you’re gonna enjoy it.
Happy birthday, cleek, you mere youth and stripling!
Seconded!
The 50’s are a great decade. I think you’re gonna enjoy it.
The 50’s are a great decade…
But some ways off yet.
Nonetheless, happy birthday, cleek !
The 50’s are a great decade…
But some ways off yet.
Nonetheless, happy birthday, cleek !
thanks all.
not feeling the joy, from this side of the fence, though 🙂
thanks all.
not feeling the joy, from this side of the fence, though 🙂
(can i just say my ~50 year old eyes keep looking in the recent comments list and seeing “Tacitus?” not “Tactics?” and then i think i’m back in 2003.
(can i just say my ~50 year old eyes keep looking in the recent comments list and seeing “Tacitus?” not “Tactics?” and then i think i’m back in 2003.
I had the hardest time with turning 30. After that I didn’t give a crap about 40 or 50. I guess I’ll find out if 60 bothers me, assuming I get that far.
I had the hardest time with turning 30. After that I didn’t give a crap about 40 or 50. I guess I’ll find out if 60 bothers me, assuming I get that far.
The only birthday that ever threw me off stride was 45, because 45 made it plain that I was, in fact (barring the unexpected), going to be 50 one of those days.
Heh. Seventy doesn’t feel anything like I thought it would half my lifetime ago, when my son was born and I tried to imagine him at 35. That’s true even though the physical failings (knees, etc.) creep up inexorably. In any case, it’s not the numbers that I take note of these days, or even the creeping infirmities, but the sense that the time remaining is ever so finite.
I just got word that the 31-year-old partner of someone I’ve worked with for several yaers in my land trust volunteering died of a heart attack while biking last week. I just can’t even.
The only birthday that ever threw me off stride was 45, because 45 made it plain that I was, in fact (barring the unexpected), going to be 50 one of those days.
Heh. Seventy doesn’t feel anything like I thought it would half my lifetime ago, when my son was born and I tried to imagine him at 35. That’s true even though the physical failings (knees, etc.) creep up inexorably. In any case, it’s not the numbers that I take note of these days, or even the creeping infirmities, but the sense that the time remaining is ever so finite.
I just got word that the 31-year-old partner of someone I’ve worked with for several yaers in my land trust volunteering died of a heart attack while biking last week. I just can’t even.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/they-keep-trying-to-warn-us/
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/they-keep-trying-to-warn-us/
You can be childish at ANY age.
You can be childish at ANY age.
does the US have 20% of the world’s population?
asking for 7,000,000 friends.
does the US have 20% of the world’s population?
asking for 7,000,000 friends.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/
The Republican Party has chosen November 3, 2020 as a good day for them to die.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/
The Republican Party has chosen November 3, 2020 as a good day for them to die.
Try this, instead:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/
Back off, pigfuckers!
Try this, instead:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/donald-trump-jr-is-recruiting-an-election-day-army/
Back off, pigfuckers!
Amy Klobuchar on really fine, passionate form, h/t BJ:
twitter.com/semperdiced/status/1309227381974949888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1309227381974949888%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balloon-juice.com%2F
Amy Klobuchar on really fine, passionate form, h/t BJ:
twitter.com/semperdiced/status/1309227381974949888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1309227381974949888%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balloon-juice.com%2F
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/opinion-why-mr-market-doesnt-care-if-democracy-is-collapsing-123208241.html
Markets hate uncertainty.
An authoritarian government acting on behalf of the rich is certainty.
In 1930s Germany, the German stock market soared for nearly the entire decade. There were a few hiccups along the way as uncertainty about whether Hitler could pull off the invasions and slaughter of the Austrians, the Czechs, the Poles, but once the market got the high sign that indeed he could do whatever the fuck he liked, free market cocksuckers bought with both hands.
The markets face some uncertainty about whether or not Marty and company can keep their tax cuts and the trains will run on time.
If trump wins, the markets will rise. The trains will run on time and even if they are carrying liberal Jews and all of the Other hated by the conservative movement to the ovens, Wall Street won’t give a fucking shit, except to buy stock in boxcar manufacturers, because they are nothing but subhuman algorithms in suits of flesh.
Civil War will end the trump republican vermin.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/opinion-why-mr-market-doesnt-care-if-democracy-is-collapsing-123208241.html
Markets hate uncertainty.
An authoritarian government acting on behalf of the rich is certainty.
In 1930s Germany, the German stock market soared for nearly the entire decade. There were a few hiccups along the way as uncertainty about whether Hitler could pull off the invasions and slaughter of the Austrians, the Czechs, the Poles, but once the market got the high sign that indeed he could do whatever the fuck he liked, free market cocksuckers bought with both hands.
The markets face some uncertainty about whether or not Marty and company can keep their tax cuts and the trains will run on time.
If trump wins, the markets will rise. The trains will run on time and even if they are carrying liberal Jews and all of the Other hated by the conservative movement to the ovens, Wall Street won’t give a fucking shit, except to buy stock in boxcar manufacturers, because they are nothing but subhuman algorithms in suits of flesh.
Civil War will end the trump republican vermin.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/liberal-groups-fear-james-okeefe-election-sting?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
One side does that shit.
The other side will execute O’Keefe and company.
Fuck with the vote and you will be slaughtered.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/liberal-groups-fear-james-okeefe-election-sting?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
One side does that shit.
The other side will execute O’Keefe and company.
Fuck with the vote and you will be slaughtered.
It is trump’s wet dream to preside over worldwide nuclear holocaust:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlins-world-war-iii-propaganda-meltdown-shows-putin-is-cornered?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
It is trump’s wet dream to preside over worldwide nuclear holocaust:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlins-world-war-iii-propaganda-meltdown-shows-putin-is-cornered?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
well there’s one thing that’ll get ya fired from the Lousiville PD, write this email:
cancelled!
bam!
well there’s one thing that’ll get ya fired from the Lousiville PD, write this email:
cancelled!
bam!
Aside from killing a perfectly innocent person, the second most disturbing thing about this is that none of the officers seem to have had body cameras.
Officers that showed up after the raid were wearing cameras. And one of the officers involved in the raid may have been wearing a camera during the raid.
“The footage was captured by 45 different body cameras and included as part of the investigative file compiled by the LMPD’s Public Integrity Unit and shared with the Kentucky attorney general’s office (No footage from the raid itself has been released, and for months, LMPD has insisted that none exists, saying that officers in this unit often operate in plainclothes and were not required to wear body cameras. VICE News has previously reported that crime scene photos contradict initial statements by the LMPD claiming that the officers involved, who work narcotics, do not wear body cameras. Photographs of officers taken from that night clearly show Tony James, one of the at least seven officers present for the raid, wearing a body camera over his right shoulder.)”
New Body-Cam Footage Raises Questions About Breonna Taylor Death Investigation: Footage and documents obtained by VICE News depict Louisville police officers apparently violating department policies and cast doubt on the integrity of the crime scene and the investigation.
Aside from killing a perfectly innocent person, the second most disturbing thing about this is that none of the officers seem to have had body cameras.
Officers that showed up after the raid were wearing cameras. And one of the officers involved in the raid may have been wearing a camera during the raid.
“The footage was captured by 45 different body cameras and included as part of the investigative file compiled by the LMPD’s Public Integrity Unit and shared with the Kentucky attorney general’s office (No footage from the raid itself has been released, and for months, LMPD has insisted that none exists, saying that officers in this unit often operate in plainclothes and were not required to wear body cameras. VICE News has previously reported that crime scene photos contradict initial statements by the LMPD claiming that the officers involved, who work narcotics, do not wear body cameras. Photographs of officers taken from that night clearly show Tony James, one of the at least seven officers present for the raid, wearing a body camera over his right shoulder.)”
New Body-Cam Footage Raises Questions About Breonna Taylor Death Investigation: Footage and documents obtained by VICE News depict Louisville police officers apparently violating department policies and cast doubt on the integrity of the crime scene and the investigation.
Where in the universe does this shit happen except in republican conservative thoroughly lawbreaking subhuman pigshit America?
https://www.10tv.com/article/news/nation-world/william-perry-pendley-land-management-unlawful-serving/507-349d8161-f9d9-422f-981b-5fc64df95454
It was foretold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5XT9CifIlY
Where in the universe does this shit happen except in republican conservative thoroughly lawbreaking subhuman pigshit America?
https://www.10tv.com/article/news/nation-world/william-perry-pendley-land-management-unlawful-serving/507-349d8161-f9d9-422f-981b-5fc64df95454
It was foretold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5XT9CifIlY
Apparently, it also happens in the UK. BoJo et al going full-on Trump, first incompetence, then serious corruption (you have to read down the thread for it, by a QC who founded the Good Law Project). FFS.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1309734691168227328
Apparently, it also happens in the UK. BoJo et al going full-on Trump, first incompetence, then serious corruption (you have to read down the thread for it, by a QC who founded the Good Law Project). FFS.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1309734691168227328
Well, since everyone is doing it, I guess William Henry Pendleton is not a hypocrite.
Well, since everyone is doing it, I guess William Henry Pendleton is not a hypocrite.
I see from the WaPo that, finally, something is being made of Trump’s attempt in 1990 to cheat his siblings out of their inheritance. I was astonished, after reading Mary Trump’s book, that nobody seemed to be talking about this (although I commented about it here). In fact, I almost wondered whether I had imagined it, or misinterpreted it, so I went back and reread it just to check. Of course, now we see there are recordings, it makes for a more compelling story – at least we must hope so.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/donald-trump-father-will/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2bca08e%2F5f70b4089d2fda0efb367a5d%2F5e6e42daae7e8a594846fe8b%2F8%2F65%2F36cd0ac6736f5dff93e8d0ddc6fca9ab
I see from the WaPo that, finally, something is being made of Trump’s attempt in 1990 to cheat his siblings out of their inheritance. I was astonished, after reading Mary Trump’s book, that nobody seemed to be talking about this (although I commented about it here). In fact, I almost wondered whether I had imagined it, or misinterpreted it, so I went back and reread it just to check. Of course, now we see there are recordings, it makes for a more compelling story – at least we must hope so.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/donald-trump-father-will/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2bca08e%2F5f70b4089d2fda0efb367a5d%2F5e6e42daae7e8a594846fe8b%2F8%2F65%2F36cd0ac6736f5dff93e8d0ddc6fca9ab
Except when he uses the middle name “Henry” instead of his given middle name, “Perry”.
Very suspicious, that!
“Pendley”? Pendleton. Penalty. Penury. Pudenda. Penultimate Pendulous Penmanship.
The guy can’t even get his name straight.
It would seem that …. let me rephrase that … every decision and rule this subhuman conservative (why is he wearing a fake moustache? Hanh?), whatever he calls himself, made during his illegal putsch at the Bureau of Land Management must be reversed, rescinded and wiped from the books.
Did he sell or give lands belonging to the American people to a shadowy anonymous citizen’s united trust held in foreign names which are mere anagrams of Trump?
Get those lands back where they belong or there will be goddamned killing.
Except when he uses the middle name “Henry” instead of his given middle name, “Perry”.
Very suspicious, that!
“Pendley”? Pendleton. Penalty. Penury. Pudenda. Penultimate Pendulous Penmanship.
The guy can’t even get his name straight.
It would seem that …. let me rephrase that … every decision and rule this subhuman conservative (why is he wearing a fake moustache? Hanh?), whatever he calls himself, made during his illegal putsch at the Bureau of Land Management must be reversed, rescinded and wiped from the books.
Did he sell or give lands belonging to the American people to a shadowy anonymous citizen’s united trust held in foreign names which are mere anagrams of Trump?
Get those lands back where they belong or there will be goddamned killing.
it makes for a more compelling story – at least we must hope so.
It won’t change a single mind.
it makes for a more compelling story – at least we must hope so.
It won’t change a single mind.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste by changing it.
In fact, trump will pick up a few percentage points in the polls from the scum that live amongst us who admire Trump’s criminal financial acumen and who themselves recently, as their parents began succumbing to Covid-19 in nursing homes as the Trump family played CCP three card monte with respirators, Covid tests, and mask mandates, rushed to change Mom and Dad’s estate plans to steal family money from their siblings.
It can be viewed with a jaundiced eye through the prism of long-term financial planning, if you consider the larceny as protection against the sadistic, murderous Republican Party’s stated goals of destroying Social Security and Medicare.
A person has to plan for his or her old age, especially as one accumulates those pre-existing conditions Amy Coney Barrett finds so compelling to keep post-born fetuses on their toes in her theocracy which worships God-given human suffering.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste by changing it.
In fact, trump will pick up a few percentage points in the polls from the scum that live amongst us who admire Trump’s criminal financial acumen and who themselves recently, as their parents began succumbing to Covid-19 in nursing homes as the Trump family played CCP three card monte with respirators, Covid tests, and mask mandates, rushed to change Mom and Dad’s estate plans to steal family money from their siblings.
It can be viewed with a jaundiced eye through the prism of long-term financial planning, if you consider the larceny as protection against the sadistic, murderous Republican Party’s stated goals of destroying Social Security and Medicare.
A person has to plan for his or her old age, especially as one accumulates those pre-existing conditions Amy Coney Barrett finds so compelling to keep post-born fetuses on their toes in her theocracy which worships God-given human suffering.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/when-reality-bites-they-just-laugh/
Biden didn’t fall asleep because he knows republican conservative alien body-snatchers have planted seed pods in the trunk of his car and his basement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLsjlmrQ6Mw
https://digbysblog.net/2020/09/when-reality-bites-they-just-laugh/
Biden didn’t fall asleep because he knows republican conservative alien body-snatchers have planted seed pods in the trunk of his car and his basement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLsjlmrQ6Mw
The question is, given the state of things, will Borat II be little more than a confirming documentary about America, unlike Borat I, which at least was able to inspire cringe-worthy satire about the Homeland:
https://www.ign.com/articles/borat-2-has-a-ridiculous-new-title
The question is, given the state of things, will Borat II be little more than a confirming documentary about America, unlike Borat I, which at least was able to inspire cringe-worthy satire about the Homeland:
https://www.ign.com/articles/borat-2-has-a-ridiculous-new-title
When I hear Tom Cotton defecate via his fascist piehole, the words “peaceful transition” never enter my mind either.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/27/cotton-trump-transfer-power-422169
For some reason, the Comanche Nation enters my thoughts.
On the side of the Comanche.
At least he isn’t a hypocrite.
He will kill all and everyone he promises to kill.
One begins to understand why he works so tirelessly to make the same military-grade weaponry he used to kill abroad available in the streets of America to his vermin true-believers.
A veritable doyen of truth-telling is Cotton.
When I hear Tom Cotton defecate via his fascist piehole, the words “peaceful transition” never enter my mind either.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/27/cotton-trump-transfer-power-422169
For some reason, the Comanche Nation enters my thoughts.
On the side of the Comanche.
At least he isn’t a hypocrite.
He will kill all and everyone he promises to kill.
One begins to understand why he works so tirelessly to make the same military-grade weaponry he used to kill abroad available in the streets of America to his vermin true-believers.
A veritable doyen of truth-telling is Cotton.
It won’t change a single mind.
You’re certainly right about his real base. But I can’t help wondering about some on the fringes who might have been deluded about all the big stuff (ACA, Covid, SCOTUS, large-scale corruption etc) but are all too familiar with family trying to pull a fast one. That happens in families of all socio-economic classes, and people might well have feelings about it. A GftNC can hope.
It won’t change a single mind.
You’re certainly right about his real base. But I can’t help wondering about some on the fringes who might have been deluded about all the big stuff (ACA, Covid, SCOTUS, large-scale corruption etc) but are all too familiar with family trying to pull a fast one. That happens in families of all socio-economic classes, and people might well have feelings about it. A GftNC can hope.
But I can’t help wondering about some on the fringes who might have been deluded about all the big stuff
And we are in a situation where that handful of persuadable voters may well end up being critical. Certainly the chances are too high to take the risk of ignoring them — no matter how few you suspect they are.
But I can’t help wondering about some on the fringes who might have been deluded about all the big stuff
And we are in a situation where that handful of persuadable voters may well end up being critical. Certainly the chances are too high to take the risk of ignoring them — no matter how few you suspect they are.
You still seem unclear on the concept, wj.
The whole GOP plan is to arrange things so that “a handful of persuadable voters” can be negated by voter suppression, state-level shenanigans, and/or SCOTUS corruption.
You watch: unless the vote is so lopsided that even Fox News feels constrained to call it for Biden on election night, we will be regaled to arguments from the likes of Marty and McKinney that maybe He, Trump’s shysters make some valid points and anyway both sides do it and the Dems would be doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot so what the hell — let He, Trump have His 2nd term to enact His “good Republican) policies”.
–TP
You still seem unclear on the concept, wj.
The whole GOP plan is to arrange things so that “a handful of persuadable voters” can be negated by voter suppression, state-level shenanigans, and/or SCOTUS corruption.
You watch: unless the vote is so lopsided that even Fox News feels constrained to call it for Biden on election night, we will be regaled to arguments from the likes of Marty and McKinney that maybe He, Trump’s shysters make some valid points and anyway both sides do it and the Dems would be doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot so what the hell — let He, Trump have His 2nd term to enact His “good Republican) policies”.
–TP
In many ways our media environment is nothing new. The conditions on social media are quite similar to what we had during the 18th C. with the pamphleteers waging their quirky wars for the hearts and minds of the public. That was very much a propaganda and fake news environment as well.
On the other hand, though, the pamphleteers did not have anything like mass media culture to extend their reach. So while there was a lot of fringe and falsehood, those things were more heterodox.
It’s the mass convergences and cascades that are doing us in here and now.
In many ways our media environment is nothing new. The conditions on social media are quite similar to what we had during the 18th C. with the pamphleteers waging their quirky wars for the hearts and minds of the public. That was very much a propaganda and fake news environment as well.
On the other hand, though, the pamphleteers did not have anything like mass media culture to extend their reach. So while there was a lot of fringe and falsehood, those things were more heterodox.
It’s the mass convergences and cascades that are doing us in here and now.
Just saw this— I don’t know if anyone else linked to it, but the nyt seems to have Trump’s tax returns.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Should be interesting.
Just saw this— I don’t know if anyone else linked to it, but the nyt seems to have Trump’s tax returns.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Should be interesting.
nyt seems to have Trump’s tax returns.
OMG. Thanks, Donald!
nyt seems to have Trump’s tax returns.
OMG. Thanks, Donald!