by wj
The most optimistic estimates suggest that we might have a covid-19 vaccine that works by the end of the year. Let’s assume, for the sake of discussion, that actually happens. Then what?
Well the obvious first step is to get production ramped up to produce enough doses to handle the whole country. (Well, the whole world, but that’s out of scope for this particular discussion.) The various pharm companies working on the vaccines know how to do that. They’ve had practice, after all. No doubt it will be slower than we would like, but it won’t be that bad.
But then, we have to actually distribute and administer the vaccines. Which may be a problem.
What brings this to mind is a column from Megan McArdle in the Washington Post entitled If we want any vaccine to actually work, we have to prepare for it now Now McArdle is a pretty staunch libertarian (not up to Charles, perhaps, but pretty strong). So it is noteworthy that when she talks about not screwing up the vaccine the way we screwed up the first phase of the corona virus response, she says “That kind of vaccination campaign — the kind that could really make everything go back to normal — is going to take a vast, coordinated public effort on a scale that we may not have seen since the United States rolled out draft cards and ration books during World War II.” Further
The logistics alone are daunting. We might not reach true normal until a sizable majority of the country is vaccinated, and our traditional method for fighting infectious disease — require vaccination to attend primary school — won’t achieve that. How do we purchase, store and distribute all those doses? How do we keep track of who has been vaccinated, particularly if vaccination requires multiple doses? All this needs to be resolved at the federal level, as much as possible, because in a country as open and mobile as the United States, we’re all only as well as our sickest fellow state.
This from, as I say, a devout libertarian.
And, as she notes, the logistical problems pale beside the political problems. Not only is the whole subject of the virus hopelessly politicized – even over something as trivial as wearing masks. But there is also the pre-existing anti-vaccination fervor on the right and left. To the point that it will probably require relatively draconian penalties (and maybe more) to get some people to accept the vaccine.
In short, there’s an excellent chance that we won’t be organized, we won’t even start to get organized, to distribute the vaccine until mid-January (i.e. when we have a new administration and a new Congress). So when we will actually get it done is hard to say. Maybe next summer…?
My anti-mask, anti-vaxx relatives are posting statements from their local sheriff advising why he will not enforce the Governor’s directive that everyone wear a mask. I guarantee that they will balk at any effort to mandate a vaccine. And they are very active in the local GOP.
We will be lucky to get any degree of widespread compliance. We may end up with armed protests again instead, and complete non-enforcement.
I’ve started reading up on Yugoslavian Nationalism again.
Welcome to ideological Balkanization.
My anti-mask, anti-vaxx relatives are posting statements from their local sheriff advising why he will not enforce the Governor’s directive that everyone wear a mask. I guarantee that they will balk at any effort to mandate a vaccine. And they are very active in the local GOP.
We will be lucky to get any degree of widespread compliance. We may end up with armed protests again instead, and complete non-enforcement.
I’ve started reading up on Yugoslavian Nationalism again.
Welcome to ideological Balkanization.
Dr. Zeke Emmanuel was on the telly last night, his thoughts were it might be November 2021 before approximately 250 million doses were administered; he also thought it possible that two doses may be required.
Meanwhile, UCSF is no longer pursuing vaccines: “With coronavirus antibodies fading fast, vaccine hopes fade, too”
Dr. Zeke Emmanuel was on the telly last night, his thoughts were it might be November 2021 before approximately 250 million doses were administered; he also thought it possible that two doses may be required.
Meanwhile, UCSF is no longer pursuing vaccines: “With coronavirus antibodies fading fast, vaccine hopes fade, too”
Possibly good news on vaccine developments.
“The COVID-19 vaccine being developed by researchers at Oxford University and the pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca reportedly stimulates the body’s immune system in early trials to produce both antibodies and killer T-cells. Antibodies protect against infections by binding to pathogens in order to prevent them from entering or damaging cells, and by coating pathogens to attract white blood cells to engulf and digest them. Longer-lasting killer T-cells work by finding and destroying infected cells in the body that have been turned into virus-making factories.”
Good News: COVID-19 Vaccines Stimulate the Production of Both Antibodies and T-Cells: Antibodies may decline, but T-cells could provide effective long-term protection.
Possibly good news on vaccine developments.
“The COVID-19 vaccine being developed by researchers at Oxford University and the pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca reportedly stimulates the body’s immune system in early trials to produce both antibodies and killer T-cells. Antibodies protect against infections by binding to pathogens in order to prevent them from entering or damaging cells, and by coating pathogens to attract white blood cells to engulf and digest them. Longer-lasting killer T-cells work by finding and destroying infected cells in the body that have been turned into virus-making factories.”
Good News: COVID-19 Vaccines Stimulate the Production of Both Antibodies and T-Cells: Antibodies may decline, but T-cells could provide effective long-term protection.
As Gary Johnson might ask: “What’s a McArdle?”
Not interested in having a “devout” libertarian explain the logistics of government doing anything.
F*ck them. We have no government, a condition they have championed for decades. They canceled it.
There are no antibodies for what ails us from the conservative and libertarian viruses breathed on us by the mouth breathers all these years.
Libertarians are witches who couldn’t organize a witch hunt.
The only proper public stance for her ilk is f*cking STFU silence.
Covid-19 and McArdle are both libertarians.
They should get a reality show together.
Wait, we’re living it now and we’re running for our lives.
I, being a running dog on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party all these years, apparently, bought AstraZeneca stock earlier this week after watching these little vaccine companies, who for years have produced nothing but news releases and haven’t been able to get a vaccine for any kind of flu past clinical trials, go “volatile” to the upside beyond all sense, but natch underwritten with my tax money, given to them by filth who hate taxes.
Not that I mind. I mean, perhaps if government all these years had fully funded the hunt for really effective vaccines against the common flu via these companies’ platforms, we might not be losing 30,000 or more human Americans a year to that plague, but of course, conservatives and libertarians use THAT merely to tell us we shouldn’t be so political correct as to be concerned with the 140,000 deaths from Covid.
And we might have been more prepared at both government and private capital levels for what we have up our asses now.
But, like they say, an ounce of prevention might cost a republican his yacht, so last man overboard wins.
Why, it’s a pittance. Go on about your lives.
We’ll meet you at the end with body bags and mobile morgues, which like Nazi government, conservative republican government seems good at having on hand for all eventualities.
They are lousy at train schedules, however.
As Gary Johnson might ask: “What’s a McArdle?”
Not interested in having a “devout” libertarian explain the logistics of government doing anything.
F*ck them. We have no government, a condition they have championed for decades. They canceled it.
There are no antibodies for what ails us from the conservative and libertarian viruses breathed on us by the mouth breathers all these years.
Libertarians are witches who couldn’t organize a witch hunt.
The only proper public stance for her ilk is f*cking STFU silence.
Covid-19 and McArdle are both libertarians.
They should get a reality show together.
Wait, we’re living it now and we’re running for our lives.
I, being a running dog on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party all these years, apparently, bought AstraZeneca stock earlier this week after watching these little vaccine companies, who for years have produced nothing but news releases and haven’t been able to get a vaccine for any kind of flu past clinical trials, go “volatile” to the upside beyond all sense, but natch underwritten with my tax money, given to them by filth who hate taxes.
Not that I mind. I mean, perhaps if government all these years had fully funded the hunt for really effective vaccines against the common flu via these companies’ platforms, we might not be losing 30,000 or more human Americans a year to that plague, but of course, conservatives and libertarians use THAT merely to tell us we shouldn’t be so political correct as to be concerned with the 140,000 deaths from Covid.
And we might have been more prepared at both government and private capital levels for what we have up our asses now.
But, like they say, an ounce of prevention might cost a republican his yacht, so last man overboard wins.
Why, it’s a pittance. Go on about your lives.
We’ll meet you at the end with body bags and mobile morgues, which like Nazi government, conservative republican government seems good at having on hand for all eventualities.
They are lousy at train schedules, however.
I don’t know beans about this stuff, but I wonder if the feds could set up, now, a manufacturing facility to produce whatever vaccine researchers find.
Is the manufacturing process so dependent on the specifics of the vaccine that that makes no sense, or is there at least a sort of “baseline” factory that could be built, and then just customized to a specific product?
Anyone know?
I don’t know beans about this stuff, but I wonder if the feds could set up, now, a manufacturing facility to produce whatever vaccine researchers find.
Is the manufacturing process so dependent on the specifics of the vaccine that that makes no sense, or is there at least a sort of “baseline” factory that could be built, and then just customized to a specific product?
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
I don’t, but I have read that private corporations are trying to ramp up delivery mechanisms (glass vials, needles, etc.), an effort that the feds could seemingly bolster. Too bad I don’t trust the federal government under Trump to do anything that doesn’t involve raking taxpayer money into the pockets of the crony network.
Anyone know?
I don’t, but I have read that private corporations are trying to ramp up delivery mechanisms (glass vials, needles, etc.), an effort that the feds could seemingly bolster. Too bad I don’t trust the federal government under Trump to do anything that doesn’t involve raking taxpayer money into the pockets of the crony network.
By the way, to follow on my 9:40, I was and am a champion of big government when well-run and not corrupt. Obama comes to mind.
By the way, to follow on my 9:40, I was and am a champion of big government when well-run and not corrupt. Obama comes to mind.
I’m about getting to the point where I think, as awful as it is, we may have to resort to rationing it in the sense of this: People who are hostile to the vaccine don’t get it, while people who want it get it.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
They’ve gotten exactly everything they ever wanted, plus a few things they didn’t know they wanted until it presented itself to them. They got a president in their lousy image, garbage governance, things that feel good presented as truth, all the hatred that they can gin up, and a privately-run Pravda influenced in no small measure by those who used to crank out the actual Pravda.
Megan McArdle can go piss up a rope. She’s right, to be sure, but she’s way too goddamned late in the day.
There. I said all that. I out-John Thullen-ed John Thullen, without the eloquence and bon mots.
Never have I been more furious and more distraught at what a failure of a country we made out of ourselves. If I were black, I suppose I wouldn’t be so surprised – hell, it’s failed it’s black population for dog’s ages. In that sense, I’m showing my so-called privilege as a white person. I guess also in another sense, it’s an equal opportunity felcher – it now goes after everyone, including even its supporters.
Mississippi Goddamn? More like America goddamn.
I’m about getting to the point where I think, as awful as it is, we may have to resort to rationing it in the sense of this: People who are hostile to the vaccine don’t get it, while people who want it get it.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
They’ve gotten exactly everything they ever wanted, plus a few things they didn’t know they wanted until it presented itself to them. They got a president in their lousy image, garbage governance, things that feel good presented as truth, all the hatred that they can gin up, and a privately-run Pravda influenced in no small measure by those who used to crank out the actual Pravda.
Megan McArdle can go piss up a rope. She’s right, to be sure, but she’s way too goddamned late in the day.
There. I said all that. I out-John Thullen-ed John Thullen, without the eloquence and bon mots.
Never have I been more furious and more distraught at what a failure of a country we made out of ourselves. If I were black, I suppose I wouldn’t be so surprised – hell, it’s failed it’s black population for dog’s ages. In that sense, I’m showing my so-called privilege as a white person. I guess also in another sense, it’s an equal opportunity felcher – it now goes after everyone, including even its supporters.
Mississippi Goddamn? More like America goddamn.
I have read that private corporations are trying to ramp up delivery mechanisms (glass vials, needles, etc.), an effort that the feds could seemingly bolster.
They could. But the far greater need is to coordinate doing the actual vaccinations, tracking who has gotten one, who needs the second one (if multiple doses are required), etc. Private corporations can do production. But delivery isn’t going to happen effectively without Federal government coordination.
I have read that private corporations are trying to ramp up delivery mechanisms (glass vials, needles, etc.), an effort that the feds could seemingly bolster.
They could. But the far greater need is to coordinate doing the actual vaccinations, tracking who has gotten one, who needs the second one (if multiple doses are required), etc. Private corporations can do production. But delivery isn’t going to happen effectively without Federal government coordination.
we may have to resort to rationing it in the sense of this: People who are hostile to the vaccine don’t get it, while people who want it get it.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
As a way to deal with the anti-vaxxers personally, I definitely see the attraction.** But then, there are their kids, who didn’t choose to have parents who are nut cases. So you’d need to put those kids into foster care to get them taken care of. Doable, I suppose, but not a trivial exercise.
** The problem, of course, is the folks (typically 5% to 10% for a vaccine) for who the vaccine doesn’t work. Their hope is “herd immunity” keeping them from encountering it. And herd immunity requires all those anti-vaxxers getting dragged in. Kicking and screaming though they doubtless will be.
we may have to resort to rationing it in the sense of this: People who are hostile to the vaccine don’t get it, while people who want it get it.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
As a way to deal with the anti-vaxxers personally, I definitely see the attraction.** But then, there are their kids, who didn’t choose to have parents who are nut cases. So you’d need to put those kids into foster care to get them taken care of. Doable, I suppose, but not a trivial exercise.
** The problem, of course, is the folks (typically 5% to 10% for a vaccine) for who the vaccine doesn’t work. Their hope is “herd immunity” keeping them from encountering it. And herd immunity requires all those anti-vaxxers getting dragged in. Kicking and screaming though they doubtless will be.
Government does work …. for thee but not for us:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/15/1961008/-Florida-can-t-meet-residents-COVID-19-testing-needs-but-pro-sports-in-Florida-have-no-problem
Trump is swabbed and tested and his filthy corrupt offspring and in laws are too, hourly.
Their Covid tests come back faster an order for a Goya Taco bowl.
Just as Putin is as the proletariat has to pass through a virus free wind tunnel to get at him.
Trump is tested by deep state government employees, who Americans have been trained by republican cucks to despise in any other role except sucking republican dick, probably William Barr’s.
Circuses.
No bread.
Extinct civilizations will attest to the outcome.
As much as I desire to see the Chinese government overthrown by the Chinese people, I’d like first to give them a shot at governing Florida, Oklahoma, Arizona, Orange County, North Dakota, and Texas before we jump to conclusions.
Government does work …. for thee but not for us:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/15/1961008/-Florida-can-t-meet-residents-COVID-19-testing-needs-but-pro-sports-in-Florida-have-no-problem
Trump is swabbed and tested and his filthy corrupt offspring and in laws are too, hourly.
Their Covid tests come back faster an order for a Goya Taco bowl.
Just as Putin is as the proletariat has to pass through a virus free wind tunnel to get at him.
Trump is tested by deep state government employees, who Americans have been trained by republican cucks to despise in any other role except sucking republican dick, probably William Barr’s.
Circuses.
No bread.
Extinct civilizations will attest to the outcome.
As much as I desire to see the Chinese government overthrown by the Chinese people, I’d like first to give them a shot at governing Florida, Oklahoma, Arizona, Orange County, North Dakota, and Texas before we jump to conclusions.
I left out Georgia.
It should have been left out in 1865.
I left out Georgia.
It should have been left out in 1865.
I’m afraid you’re living in the past a bit. Orange County is pretty purple these days. Tending bluish, actually. (California does have dark red areas. But Orange County is no longer among them.)
I’m afraid you’re living in the past a bit. Orange County is pretty purple these days. Tending bluish, actually. (California does have dark red areas. But Orange County is no longer among them.)
Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work. Let’s setup a door to door search capability to forcibly bring them in after our compliance database flags them as out of compliance.
ICE can lead but the sanctuary cities wint help enforcement, courthouses wi be considered safe places but once you step outside they just shoot you with a vaccination dart.
On another note, severalnof the promising vaccines are being produced in come today with a target 1b doses to be available at the end of trials
Other than the natural time it takes to distribute a billion doses, the supply chain for vaccinations is pretty well defined. Well except for that centralized compliance database, we can just use an instance of Salesforce to capture the data.
Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work. Let’s setup a door to door search capability to forcibly bring them in after our compliance database flags them as out of compliance.
ICE can lead but the sanctuary cities wint help enforcement, courthouses wi be considered safe places but once you step outside they just shoot you with a vaccination dart.
On another note, severalnof the promising vaccines are being produced in come today with a target 1b doses to be available at the end of trials
Other than the natural time it takes to distribute a billion doses, the supply chain for vaccinations is pretty well defined. Well except for that centralized compliance database, we can just use an instance of Salesforce to capture the data.
“But then, there are their kids, who didn’t choose to have parents who are nut cases.”
And that’s what brings me back to something somewhat more humane. Yes, the kids, who have to be liberated from their bigoted parents.
I don’t have a clue as to where you begin with this, or what you an do with a country with just enough people like this. Yes, they are a minority. But they’re one that can do a lot of damage, and they’re at work now.
“But then, there are their kids, who didn’t choose to have parents who are nut cases.”
And that’s what brings me back to something somewhat more humane. Yes, the kids, who have to be liberated from their bigoted parents.
I don’t have a clue as to where you begin with this, or what you an do with a country with just enough people like this. Yes, they are a minority. But they’re one that can do a lot of damage, and they’re at work now.
“Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work. Let’s setup a door to door search capability to forcibly bring them in after our compliance database flags them as out of compliance.”
I don’t think it’s going to be that organized, since to organize is held to violate the Constitution, unless it’s conservative authoritarianism doing the organizing, without visible ID.
It’s amazing how things in such a short amount of time can go from merely bad to a total shit storm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGu2fKG84o
“Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work. Let’s setup a door to door search capability to forcibly bring them in after our compliance database flags them as out of compliance.”
I don’t think it’s going to be that organized, since to organize is held to violate the Constitution, unless it’s conservative authoritarianism doing the organizing, without visible ID.
It’s amazing how things in such a short amount of time can go from merely bad to a total shit storm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGu2fKG84o
Trump decided that the CDC would stop collecting data on Covid-19 cases, and the CDC very obediently stopped collecting Covid 19 case data. Covid 19 case data will now go to HHS, where the numbers will be massaged to make Trump look good.
Who needs a vaccine? With no more tests and no more reported cases, the virus will be gone by Election Day!
Trump decided that the CDC would stop collecting data on Covid-19 cases, and the CDC very obediently stopped collecting Covid 19 case data. Covid 19 case data will now go to HHS, where the numbers will be massaged to make Trump look good.
Who needs a vaccine? With no more tests and no more reported cases, the virus will be gone by Election Day!
Is the manufacturing process so dependent on the specifics of the vaccine that that makes no sense, or is there at least a sort of “baseline” factory that could be built, and then just customized to a specific product?
Short answer, yes (though there are multiple vaccines of the same type).
There’s contract manufacturing capacity for different types of vaccines, but not on the scale required. However the US government is funding several of the promising efforts, and capacity is being built. Some of the large pharmas are also funding their own efforts – Pfizer, for example will have 100m doses manufactured before the year end, and will be able to manufacture a billion within twelve months.
Like all these efforts, they’re starting bulk manufacturing before the results of clinical trials are out. It’s a sensible gamble, made in the knowledge that they might have to junk the whole lot.
Europe and China are doing similar things. The Oxford vaccine has inked license deals (through AstraZeneca) for it to be produced worldwide. They don’t expect to make a profit out of it.
My overall impression is that government and the industry have done a very good job in thinking the production side of this through. And the mechanics of vaccination will vary fro country to country (I think compliance will be high in the UK, for example).
Is the manufacturing process so dependent on the specifics of the vaccine that that makes no sense, or is there at least a sort of “baseline” factory that could be built, and then just customized to a specific product?
Short answer, yes (though there are multiple vaccines of the same type).
There’s contract manufacturing capacity for different types of vaccines, but not on the scale required. However the US government is funding several of the promising efforts, and capacity is being built. Some of the large pharmas are also funding their own efforts – Pfizer, for example will have 100m doses manufactured before the year end, and will be able to manufacture a billion within twelve months.
Like all these efforts, they’re starting bulk manufacturing before the results of clinical trials are out. It’s a sensible gamble, made in the knowledge that they might have to junk the whole lot.
Europe and China are doing similar things. The Oxford vaccine has inked license deals (through AstraZeneca) for it to be produced worldwide. They don’t expect to make a profit out of it.
My overall impression is that government and the industry have done a very good job in thinking the production side of this through. And the mechanics of vaccination will vary fro country to country (I think compliance will be high in the UK, for example).
Even if there is a vaccine (and one that will not protect you against COVID-19 but make any other corona virus lethal), do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging? I would also check whether Jabbabonk and his whole Sippschaft (plus cronies) is already buying stocks in the companies.
If they could handle the logistics (which I do not believe), I would not put it beyond them to try to abuse it by having it distributed very unequally to their political advantage (the same way they tried it with masks and tests).
Would it be a really unimaginable scenario, if there was a ‘get your corona shot at your polling place’ (but only in red districts) program?
Even if there is a vaccine (and one that will not protect you against COVID-19 but make any other corona virus lethal), do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging? I would also check whether Jabbabonk and his whole Sippschaft (plus cronies) is already buying stocks in the companies.
If they could handle the logistics (which I do not believe), I would not put it beyond them to try to abuse it by having it distributed very unequally to their political advantage (the same way they tried it with masks and tests).
Would it be a really unimaginable scenario, if there was a ‘get your corona shot at your polling place’ (but only in red districts) program?
… reportedly stimulates the body’s immune system in early trials to produce both antibodies and killer T-cells..
It’s more complicated that that.
Killer T cells’ are circulating anyway; they need directing by helper T Cells to recognise their target, and that’s what the vaccine appears to be doing (it’s actually more complicated that that, too, and only partially understood).
Memory T cells, which help maintain long term immunity, were certainly produced as a consequence of infection by the original SARS virus, and were still detecting them in recovered patients a decade and a half later.
Antibodies to specific infections tend to fade quite rapidly anyway; what we’re seeing with Covid might just be that – for now there’s simply not enough evidence to know one way or the other.
Given that there’s so far been no credible evidence of even a single case of re-infection, then it seems quite likely that immunity sticks around for a while.
… reportedly stimulates the body’s immune system in early trials to produce both antibodies and killer T-cells..
It’s more complicated that that.
Killer T cells’ are circulating anyway; they need directing by helper T Cells to recognise their target, and that’s what the vaccine appears to be doing (it’s actually more complicated that that, too, and only partially understood).
Memory T cells, which help maintain long term immunity, were certainly produced as a consequence of infection by the original SARS virus, and were still detecting them in recovered patients a decade and a half later.
Antibodies to specific infections tend to fade quite rapidly anyway; what we’re seeing with Covid might just be that – for now there’s simply not enough evidence to know one way or the other.
Given that there’s so far been no credible evidence of even a single case of re-infection, then it seems quite likely that immunity sticks around for a while.
do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging?
No – but they don’t have control of the whole process.
Pfizer, for example, who are funding their own effort without any government money, have committed to providing their vaccine at cost.
I think the industry (or at least the large established companies) has calculated that there’s no mileage in price gouging, as it might risk their ability to maximise profits in more normal times.
For once they’ve done the right thing.
do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging?
No – but they don’t have control of the whole process.
Pfizer, for example, who are funding their own effort without any government money, have committed to providing their vaccine at cost.
I think the industry (or at least the large established companies) has calculated that there’s no mileage in price gouging, as it might risk their ability to maximise profits in more normal times.
For once they’ve done the right thing.
Note on the Pfizer vaccine… it’s an mRNA vaccine, and an order of magnitude or more cheaper to produce that the protein vaccines made with living cells in bioreactors.
So their manufacturing risk is perhaps $50-100m, versus $1bn or more.
Running the clinical trials is possibly more expensive for them.
Note on the Pfizer vaccine… it’s an mRNA vaccine, and an order of magnitude or more cheaper to produce that the protein vaccines made with living cells in bioreactors.
So their manufacturing risk is perhaps $50-100m, versus $1bn or more.
Running the clinical trials is possibly more expensive for them.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
Because they don’t just put themselves at risk, they put the rest of us at risk as well.
Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work
Nothing will work, because the people in question are knuckleheads. So the rest of us will have to work around them, as best we can.
If there was a way to isolate them from the general population, that might be helpful. But there isn’t. So we’ll just have to try to stay the hell away from them.
To the OP, if a vaccine is brought to market while Trump is POTUS, it will not be made publicly available in effective way. There are probably 100 ways to screw it up, he’ll find them all.
I don’t see how wasting money and resources on people who are too infantilized, too psychopath-ized, too ludicrously stupid, too unfit for any kind of governance other than dictatorship to grasp what is in their interest, is worth the time.
Because they don’t just put themselves at risk, they put the rest of us at risk as well.
Yeah let’s bring them in kicking and screaming that will work
Nothing will work, because the people in question are knuckleheads. So the rest of us will have to work around them, as best we can.
If there was a way to isolate them from the general population, that might be helpful. But there isn’t. So we’ll just have to try to stay the hell away from them.
To the OP, if a vaccine is brought to market while Trump is POTUS, it will not be made publicly available in effective way. There are probably 100 ways to screw it up, he’ll find them all.
the first thing Trump will do is claim the vaccine as his own, to brand it the “Trump Vaccine”. maybe he’ll put TRUMP on every vial and flood the market with Trump-brand syringes (made in Jina). whatever the details, he will try to politicize it to his benefit. which will keep a lot of people from getting vaccinated – either from mistrust or spite.
he’s the worst person for every situation.
the first thing Trump will do is claim the vaccine as his own, to brand it the “Trump Vaccine”. maybe he’ll put TRUMP on every vial and flood the market with Trump-brand syringes (made in Jina). whatever the details, he will try to politicize it to his benefit. which will keep a lot of people from getting vaccinated – either from mistrust or spite.
he’s the worst person for every situation.
If there was a way to isolate them from the general population, that might be helpful. But there isn’t. So we’ll just have to try to stay the hell away from them.
I for one am not concerned about this. After all, to hear conservative columnist whine, we have the ultimate unstoppable weapon – CANCEL CULTURE.
If there was a way to isolate them from the general population, that might be helpful. But there isn’t. So we’ll just have to try to stay the hell away from them.
I for one am not concerned about this. After all, to hear conservative columnist whine, we have the ultimate unstoppable weapon – CANCEL CULTURE.
Cancel Culture: The Chicks; every Republican identified as a RINO since the late 1980s by right wing filth and run out of town.
Nothing new. In fact, conservatives gave us instructional teachable moments on how to cancel, with malignant glee.
Perhaps we’ll need a Banality Vaccine:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/americans-tolerate-1-000-people-100000653.html
Meanwhile, Trump and his fascist republican regime, which reaches deep into the American psyche, are hoping we don’t see them licking the bones clean as we accept 1000 deaths a day.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/07/what-the-trump-campaign-lacked-was-a-little-structuring
Cancel Culture: The Chicks; every Republican identified as a RINO since the late 1980s by right wing filth and run out of town.
Nothing new. In fact, conservatives gave us instructional teachable moments on how to cancel, with malignant glee.
Perhaps we’ll need a Banality Vaccine:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/americans-tolerate-1-000-people-100000653.html
Meanwhile, Trump and his fascist republican regime, which reaches deep into the American psyche, are hoping we don’t see them licking the bones clean as we accept 1000 deaths a day.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/07/what-the-trump-campaign-lacked-was-a-little-structuring
do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging?
No – but they don’t have control of the whole process.
Pfizer, for example, who are funding their own effort without any government money, have committed to providing their vaccine at cost.
Can you imagine the Trumps slow walking FDA approval of any vaccines they don’t make money on? Just to maximize their market share. Because I sure can.
do you trust this administration to prevent shameless price-gouging?
No – but they don’t have control of the whole process.
Pfizer, for example, who are funding their own effort without any government money, have committed to providing their vaccine at cost.
Can you imagine the Trumps slow walking FDA approval of any vaccines they don’t make money on? Just to maximize their market share. Because I sure can.
If there really is an effective vaccine then they will mostly be putting themselves at risk.
There are a pretty good chunk of people who, based on what type of vaccine ir is, may not be advised to take it, so those people will be at risk also.
And then there is this, https://off-guardian.org/wp-content/medialibrary/24-coronavirusw.jpg?x19699 , the test of this is going on in NY and NJ now.
Which would mean that the vaccines in general are of questionable financial value unless they are developed in a way to be safely updated to create an annual vaccine against the latest mutation.
If there really is an effective vaccine then they will mostly be putting themselves at risk.
There are a pretty good chunk of people who, based on what type of vaccine ir is, may not be advised to take it, so those people will be at risk also.
And then there is this, https://off-guardian.org/wp-content/medialibrary/24-coronavirusw.jpg?x19699 , the test of this is going on in NY and NJ now.
Which would mean that the vaccines in general are of questionable financial value unless they are developed in a way to be safely updated to create an annual vaccine against the latest mutation.
Regarding antibodies and reinfection:
https://news.yahoo.com/infected-covid-19-twice-experts-090014026.html
Regarding antibodies and reinfection:
https://news.yahoo.com/infected-covid-19-twice-experts-090014026.html
The nightmare scenario is (as said above), if the vaccine works against the one virus but leads to a fatal overreaction against a similar one. Iirc one of the vaccines against MERS, SARS or one of the related others had exactly that effect.
What if the ‘we need the vaccine BEfORE the election’ guys win the day and the above turns out to be true but is not recognized (or gets simply ignored) because the forced rush prevents thorough testing?
(first guess: the production company is toast, the anti-vaxxers get a huge boost in prestige, the US will need new, more effective ways to get rid of all the bodies and somehow it will be successfully blamed on liberals).
The nightmare scenario is (as said above), if the vaccine works against the one virus but leads to a fatal overreaction against a similar one. Iirc one of the vaccines against MERS, SARS or one of the related others had exactly that effect.
What if the ‘we need the vaccine BEfORE the election’ guys win the day and the above turns out to be true but is not recognized (or gets simply ignored) because the forced rush prevents thorough testing?
(first guess: the production company is toast, the anti-vaxxers get a huge boost in prestige, the US will need new, more effective ways to get rid of all the bodies and somehow it will be successfully blamed on liberals).
To the OP, if a vaccine is brought to market while Trump is POTUS, it will not be made publicly available in effective way.
I’ll revisit this.
Our experience with tests for COVID-19 has been that the initial federal effort was bungling, and that statements from the POTUS and folks speaking for the POTUS other than Fauci have ranged from incoherent, to openly hostile to testing.
And yet, testing is pretty widely available at this point.
The story with PPE is a little different, I think supplies of those are still kind of a hot mess. A corrupt hot mess.
So, a jump ball. It could go either way, or several ways all at once. And states and local governments can, to some degree, make up for federal incompetence.
Hopefully whatever becomes available will be available as widely as makes sense, from a medical point of view. And, at a cost that people can afford. Free would be good.
And hopefully after January we will no longer have to factor the Trump chaos factor into any discussion of this.
Also, as an aside, there has been a lot of press about what a horrible, uncomfortable experience the PCR test is – the nasal swab test. A couple of weeks ago, I had the test, twice (my results were negative – no COVID). It was not a big deal. If you have reason to get tested, and are avoiding it due to what you’ve heard about discomfort, don’t worry about it. Get tested.
Wear a mask, wash your hands, observe distancing protocols. Stay safe and healthy.
To the OP, if a vaccine is brought to market while Trump is POTUS, it will not be made publicly available in effective way.
I’ll revisit this.
Our experience with tests for COVID-19 has been that the initial federal effort was bungling, and that statements from the POTUS and folks speaking for the POTUS other than Fauci have ranged from incoherent, to openly hostile to testing.
And yet, testing is pretty widely available at this point.
The story with PPE is a little different, I think supplies of those are still kind of a hot mess. A corrupt hot mess.
So, a jump ball. It could go either way, or several ways all at once. And states and local governments can, to some degree, make up for federal incompetence.
Hopefully whatever becomes available will be available as widely as makes sense, from a medical point of view. And, at a cost that people can afford. Free would be good.
And hopefully after January we will no longer have to factor the Trump chaos factor into any discussion of this.
Also, as an aside, there has been a lot of press about what a horrible, uncomfortable experience the PCR test is – the nasal swab test. A couple of weeks ago, I had the test, twice (my results were negative – no COVID). It was not a big deal. If you have reason to get tested, and are avoiding it due to what you’ve heard about discomfort, don’t worry about it. Get tested.
Wear a mask, wash your hands, observe distancing protocols. Stay safe and healthy.
Testing may be available. Results not so much.
Testing may be available. Results not so much.
If you have reason to get tested, and are avoiding it due to what you’ve heard about discomfort, don’t worry about it. Get tested.
If you’re really put off by the discomfort of the nasal swab, or just want fast results, there’s an alternative: give blood. Blood is always in short supply, and now especially, so it’s a good deed in its own right.
And the blood bank will necessarily test your donation, and promptly. If they are not automatically sharing the results, you probably only have to ask. Mine were available within 48 hours (possibly sooner; I wasn’t checking frequently).
If you have reason to get tested, and are avoiding it due to what you’ve heard about discomfort, don’t worry about it. Get tested.
If you’re really put off by the discomfort of the nasal swab, or just want fast results, there’s an alternative: give blood. Blood is always in short supply, and now especially, so it’s a good deed in its own right.
And the blood bank will necessarily test your donation, and promptly. If they are not automatically sharing the results, you probably only have to ask. Mine were available within 48 hours (possibly sooner; I wasn’t checking frequently).
“shot at governing Florida, Oklahoma, Arizona, Orange County, North Dakota, and Texas before we jump to conclusions.”
I like the way we separate Orange County, I assume that’s Orange county in California? Which is not nearly as bad as Los Angeles county. Maybe we should just list the counties. Miami-Dade, Harris, Dallas, Bexar, Broward, Palm Beach, Maricopa, Cass. A list of mostly Democratic strongholds in swing/red states. Do we really want to replace their governments.
“shot at governing Florida, Oklahoma, Arizona, Orange County, North Dakota, and Texas before we jump to conclusions.”
I like the way we separate Orange County, I assume that’s Orange county in California? Which is not nearly as bad as Los Angeles county. Maybe we should just list the counties. Miami-Dade, Harris, Dallas, Bexar, Broward, Palm Beach, Maricopa, Cass. A list of mostly Democratic strongholds in swing/red states. Do we really want to replace their governments.
Testing may be available. Results not so much.
Yes, it depends, on a lot of things.
I got my first result back in less than 24 hours. Second result took about 3 days.
That’s in eastern MA, where medical infrastructure is thick on the ground, and the state government is generally supportive of testing.
If there’s any question, assume you’re positive and isolate. That’s what I did, and spent about a week in the basement, away from my wife.
It sucked, but you do watcha gotta.
Maybe we should just list the counties.
The virus is gonna be worse where there is greater population density. For obvious reasons.
Places with greater population density tend to have (D) governments. For equally obvious reasons.
Sometimes places with (D) local governments exist in states with (R) state level governments. And sometimes the state level governments can’t find a good strategy for handling COVID with both hands and a flashlight. Sometimes the local governments can’t do so, either, for that matter.
We deal with all of this with the government we have, not the government we wish we had. And then, if we’re smart, we do what we can to get the governments we wish we had.
The virus doesn’t really give a crap. It just wants to make more virus.
Testing may be available. Results not so much.
Yes, it depends, on a lot of things.
I got my first result back in less than 24 hours. Second result took about 3 days.
That’s in eastern MA, where medical infrastructure is thick on the ground, and the state government is generally supportive of testing.
If there’s any question, assume you’re positive and isolate. That’s what I did, and spent about a week in the basement, away from my wife.
It sucked, but you do watcha gotta.
Maybe we should just list the counties.
The virus is gonna be worse where there is greater population density. For obvious reasons.
Places with greater population density tend to have (D) governments. For equally obvious reasons.
Sometimes places with (D) local governments exist in states with (R) state level governments. And sometimes the state level governments can’t find a good strategy for handling COVID with both hands and a flashlight. Sometimes the local governments can’t do so, either, for that matter.
We deal with all of this with the government we have, not the government we wish we had. And then, if we’re smart, we do what we can to get the governments we wish we had.
The virus doesn’t really give a crap. It just wants to make more virus.
Orange County is an interesting place. 40% non-Latino white, 34% Latin(x), 22% Asian and 33% foreign born. It’s purple, rather than its former red, because the Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Persian, and Filipino families that used to vote as fiscal conservatives are out of synch and out of sorts with the white racist nativists that remain pro-Trump and that are fully entrenched in the local GOP. The GOP wave of nativist white nationalism has scuttled them, locally, for federal elections and is damaging them for state elections. At the local level it’s mostly just cronyism and working to channel money to developers. None of it is particularly progressive at that level – both sides are NIMBYs that care mostly about crime and property values.
Mask wise, the asians, working class hispanics and the white limousine liberals all wear masks as a matter of course and the white conservatives and hispanic private contractors all act as if masks are a sign of weakness.
And as far as Trump is concerned, the whole place already belongs to the Chinese, so screw ’em all.
Orange County is an interesting place. 40% non-Latino white, 34% Latin(x), 22% Asian and 33% foreign born. It’s purple, rather than its former red, because the Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Persian, and Filipino families that used to vote as fiscal conservatives are out of synch and out of sorts with the white racist nativists that remain pro-Trump and that are fully entrenched in the local GOP. The GOP wave of nativist white nationalism has scuttled them, locally, for federal elections and is damaging them for state elections. At the local level it’s mostly just cronyism and working to channel money to developers. None of it is particularly progressive at that level – both sides are NIMBYs that care mostly about crime and property values.
Mask wise, the asians, working class hispanics and the white limousine liberals all wear masks as a matter of course and the white conservatives and hispanic private contractors all act as if masks are a sign of weakness.
And as far as Trump is concerned, the whole place already belongs to the Chinese, so screw ’em all.
the Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Persian, and Filipino families that used to vote as fiscal conservatives are out of synch and out of sorts with the white racist nativists that remain pro-Trump and that are fully entrenched in the local GOP. The GOP wave of nativist white nationalism has scuttled them, locally, for federal elections and is damaging them for state elections.
Pretty much the story of the GOP across California generally. All those conservative immigrants (fiscal conservative and also pretty socially conservative) got vigorously rejected by the nativists. Ditto the quite conservative black middle class.
A non-racist conservative party could do quite well here. Unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose, for liberals), none is on offer.
the Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Persian, and Filipino families that used to vote as fiscal conservatives are out of synch and out of sorts with the white racist nativists that remain pro-Trump and that are fully entrenched in the local GOP. The GOP wave of nativist white nationalism has scuttled them, locally, for federal elections and is damaging them for state elections.
Pretty much the story of the GOP across California generally. All those conservative immigrants (fiscal conservative and also pretty socially conservative) got vigorously rejected by the nativists. Ditto the quite conservative black middle class.
A non-racist conservative party could do quite well here. Unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose, for liberals), none is on offer.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3592422-white-house-officials-look-to-withhold-funds-for-coronavirus-testing-wp
Maybe the anonymous, unidentified, probably Russian troops, veterans of un-uniformed Ukrainian incursions and repressions under Putin’s directions, smuggled into this country to enforce the re-election of Trump and Barr by any and all force necessary, instead of kidnapping innocents off the streets in Portland could be re-purposed to aid in the testing and tracking of virus victims throughout the country the White House and the Republican Party instead are attempting to murder.
Remember when lying subhuman conservative republicans in Texas tried to tell the tale of identified United Nations troops infiltrating their confederate state back when we had a Kenyan President of a different color.
You’d think the racist Bundys would be on these federal infringements on states and individual rights like racist white on rice.
Where could they be now?
Finding second jobs to pay the grazing fees their asses owe me?
Hmmm.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/17/1961543/-Ammon-Bundy-tries-to-bully-his-way-inside-Idaho-health-board-meeting-on-mandating-masks
Obama was a pussy for not taking that entire family out.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3592422-white-house-officials-look-to-withhold-funds-for-coronavirus-testing-wp
Maybe the anonymous, unidentified, probably Russian troops, veterans of un-uniformed Ukrainian incursions and repressions under Putin’s directions, smuggled into this country to enforce the re-election of Trump and Barr by any and all force necessary, instead of kidnapping innocents off the streets in Portland could be re-purposed to aid in the testing and tracking of virus victims throughout the country the White House and the Republican Party instead are attempting to murder.
Remember when lying subhuman conservative republicans in Texas tried to tell the tale of identified United Nations troops infiltrating their confederate state back when we had a Kenyan President of a different color.
You’d think the racist Bundys would be on these federal infringements on states and individual rights like racist white on rice.
Where could they be now?
Finding second jobs to pay the grazing fees their asses owe me?
Hmmm.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/17/1961543/-Ammon-Bundy-tries-to-bully-his-way-inside-Idaho-health-board-meeting-on-mandating-masks
Obama was a pussy for not taking that entire family out.
And you are surprised that the Bundys are true-believer Trumpists why? Seems like such a natural fit.
And you are surprised that the Bundys are true-believer Trumpists why? Seems like such a natural fit.
On Obama: what a respectable, and respectful person.
But, yeah, he should have done a lot of things to them when he had the chance. He believed in their decency. Mistake. He will go down in history as weak and deluded, although a very good guy.
On Obama: what a respectable, and respectful person.
But, yeah, he should have done a lot of things to them when he had the chance. He believed in their decency. Mistake. He will go down in history as weak and deluded, although a very good guy.
What? Am I acting surprised?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqeGtjZkLWs
What? Am I acting surprised?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqeGtjZkLWs
I’ve always mistaken Marco Rubio for Desi Arnaz, even sometimes Fidel Castro, so can I see how this might happen …. not:
https://juanitajean.com/mario-mario/
Marco has some ‘splainin to do, Ethel.
That’s all right. For years, every time Marco heard Martin Luther King’s “I Have A Dream” speech, he got a jones on for some Chef Boyardee and plantains.
I’ve always mistaken Marco Rubio for Desi Arnaz, even sometimes Fidel Castro, so can I see how this might happen …. not:
https://juanitajean.com/mario-mario/
Marco has some ‘splainin to do, Ethel.
That’s all right. For years, every time Marco heard Martin Luther King’s “I Have A Dream” speech, he got a jones on for some Chef Boyardee and plantains.
I’m tired of being depressed. Looking for some John Lewis good trouble to get into, to keep me busy during the pandemic. The older I get, the more cowardly though. Especially with this disease.
Ideas?
I’m tired of being depressed. Looking for some John Lewis good trouble to get into, to keep me busy during the pandemic. The older I get, the more cowardly though. Especially with this disease.
Ideas?
sapient, I would not go to a protest right now. Not only might you be exposed to the virus, you run the risk of being exposed to Trump’s Mercs, who have been disappearing people off the streets in Portland – and apparently will start doing so in other cities as well.
(And I say that so casually, as though the US’ swiftly descending into a full totalitarian state is no more significant than the chance of bad weather.)
I’d save my powder, so to speak, for Election Day. Maybe turn up near a polling place to escort people past the mercs, or record the fact that they’re there. Or for after election, in case we need a few tens of millions to go to DC and bodily extract the Crime Cartel squatting there.
sapient, I would not go to a protest right now. Not only might you be exposed to the virus, you run the risk of being exposed to Trump’s Mercs, who have been disappearing people off the streets in Portland – and apparently will start doing so in other cities as well.
(And I say that so casually, as though the US’ swiftly descending into a full totalitarian state is no more significant than the chance of bad weather.)
I’d save my powder, so to speak, for Election Day. Maybe turn up near a polling place to escort people past the mercs, or record the fact that they’re there. Or for after election, in case we need a few tens of millions to go to DC and bodily extract the Crime Cartel squatting there.
Ideas?
here’s one
Ideas?
here’s one
I got to cast my last vote for John Lewis in the primary this year. I had hoped I could cast one more. But pancreatic cancer doesn’t sleep, as I already knew from family experience. Rename the damn bridge.
I got to cast my last vote for John Lewis in the primary this year. I had hoped I could cast one more. But pancreatic cancer doesn’t sleep, as I already knew from family experience. Rename the damn bridge.
We have these debates about “privilege”. I was privileged to be able to vote for a Real American Patriot. We also lost a less well known nationally patriot here yesterday, Rev. Vivian. 95 years of life experiencing and pushing the arc of justice.
We have these debates about “privilege”. I was privileged to be able to vote for a Real American Patriot. We also lost a less well known nationally patriot here yesterday, Rev. Vivian. 95 years of life experiencing and pushing the arc of justice.
Sorry for the derail, it’s a sad time here in the ATL.
Sorry for the derail, it’s a sad time here in the ATL.
Sad? Yes. A great man has passed, but the struggle continues.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-john-lewis-founded-third-american-republic/614371/
Sad? Yes. A great man has passed, but the struggle continues.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-john-lewis-founded-third-american-republic/614371/
The nightmare scenario is (as said above), if the vaccine works against the one virus but leads to a fatal overreaction against a similar one. Iirc one of the vaccines against MERS, SARS or one of the related others had exactly that effect.
If you’re talking about antibody dependent enhancement, I don’t think it’s been shown with either SARS or MERS vaccines (though development if these was never advanced) – it did happen with a feline coronavirus vaccine.
The chances of any of the current vaccines creating ADE seem to be pretty low, as it’s not shown up in any of the animal testing, or any of the human trials so far. There is a danger of it, of course, but it would almost certainly show up in one of the later stage trials before any approval for general use.
The nightmare scenario is (as said above), if the vaccine works against the one virus but leads to a fatal overreaction against a similar one. Iirc one of the vaccines against MERS, SARS or one of the related others had exactly that effect.
If you’re talking about antibody dependent enhancement, I don’t think it’s been shown with either SARS or MERS vaccines (though development if these was never advanced) – it did happen with a feline coronavirus vaccine.
The chances of any of the current vaccines creating ADE seem to be pretty low, as it’s not shown up in any of the animal testing, or any of the human trials so far. There is a danger of it, of course, but it would almost certainly show up in one of the later stage trials before any approval for general use.
But that’s exactly the problem. Will it be rushed through approval for political reasons? What does Jabbabonk care, if people die AFTER the election?
But that’s exactly the problem. Will it be rushed through approval for political reasons? What does Jabbabonk care, if people die AFTER the election?
And the mechanics of vaccination will vary fro country to country (I think compliance will be high in the UK, for example).
Within countries, and even within US states as well. I live in Colorado, and Kaiser Permanente is one of the largest insurers (and largest single health care provider). Kaiser is the original HMO in the US and grew out of the need to provide care for Kaiser shipyard workers and their families during WWII. They’ll run it like they run their fall flu vaccine campaign: nag the hell out of their members, no charges, shots available at all of their facilities whenever they’re open, special events (up to and including drive-throughs). You show up, they scan your membership card, you get your shot. People who have a history that contraindicates vaccination are automatically identified by the computers when their card is scanned, and handled on a case-by-case basis. Kaiser gets a significantly higher percentage of their members vaccinated than other insurers in the state simply because they work at it.
And the mechanics of vaccination will vary fro country to country (I think compliance will be high in the UK, for example).
Within countries, and even within US states as well. I live in Colorado, and Kaiser Permanente is one of the largest insurers (and largest single health care provider). Kaiser is the original HMO in the US and grew out of the need to provide care for Kaiser shipyard workers and their families during WWII. They’ll run it like they run their fall flu vaccine campaign: nag the hell out of their members, no charges, shots available at all of their facilities whenever they’re open, special events (up to and including drive-throughs). You show up, they scan your membership card, you get your shot. People who have a history that contraindicates vaccination are automatically identified by the computers when their card is scanned, and handled on a case-by-case basis. Kaiser gets a significantly higher percentage of their members vaccinated than other insurers in the state simply because they work at it.
Kaiser is the original HMO in the US and grew out of the need to provide care for Kaiser shipyard workers and their families during WWII.
Pedantic historical note.
Kaiser actually started with the need to provide medical care for workers building Boulder Dam (now Hoover Dam) in Nevada in the early 1930s. When they needed medical care for the shipyards, they had a template in hand, with a lot of the bugs already worked out.
Kaiser is the original HMO in the US and grew out of the need to provide care for Kaiser shipyard workers and their families during WWII.
Pedantic historical note.
Kaiser actually started with the need to provide medical care for workers building Boulder Dam (now Hoover Dam) in Nevada in the early 1930s. When they needed medical care for the shipyards, they had a template in hand, with a lot of the bugs already worked out.
Head in the sand watch:
The administration is trying to block billions that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Got that? Not Democratic senators; GOP senators.
Right up there with objecting to increased testing, which they also do, because it increases reported case numbers. Doesn’t change the actual number of cases, of course. But if it wasn’t reported, for these morons it didn’t happen.
Head in the sand watch:
The administration is trying to block billions that GOP senators want to allocate for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Got that? Not Democratic senators; GOP senators.
Right up there with objecting to increased testing, which they also do, because it increases reported case numbers. Doesn’t change the actual number of cases, of course. But if it wasn’t reported, for these morons it didn’t happen.
i don’t know if any of you knew this, but Trump is a crook.
i don’t know if any of you knew this, but Trump is a crook.
Well technically he’s a conman, rather than a crook. He didn’t steal the money, just fleeced a bunch of marks (aka “donors”) who gave it to him.
I wonder how much diehard Trump support is people who would find it just too massively embarrassing to admit how badly they’ve been conned.
Well technically he’s a conman, rather than a crook. He didn’t steal the money, just fleeced a bunch of marks (aka “donors”) who gave it to him.
I wonder how much diehard Trump support is people who would find it just too massively embarrassing to admit how badly they’ve been conned.
Well technically he’s a conman, rather than a crook.
I suspect there some campaign finance issues in cleek’s example.
Even if not, there is no lack of examples of Trump’s fundamental crookedness.
Outside of hard-core Trumpies, I can’t imagine that’s even in question at this point.
Well technically he’s a conman, rather than a crook.
I suspect there some campaign finance issues in cleek’s example.
Even if not, there is no lack of examples of Trump’s fundamental crookedness.
Outside of hard-core Trumpies, I can’t imagine that’s even in question at this point.
That Trump is basically dishonest? My sense is that even most hardcore Trumpies acknowledge that. It’s just that they seem to admire him for getting away with it. Which says something pretty appalling about them as human beings — never mind what it says about those who were once Moral Majority types.
That Trump is basically dishonest? My sense is that even most hardcore Trumpies acknowledge that. It’s just that they seem to admire him for getting away with it. Which says something pretty appalling about them as human beings — never mind what it says about those who were once Moral Majority types.
But that’s exactly the problem. Will it be rushed through approval for political reasons? What does Jabbabonk care, if people die AFTER the election?
The unseemly rush is worldwide, and yes, vaccine development and trials have been run at an unprecedented rate. But they’re still running trials regulated by the FDA, and approval is subject to those results.
A second term Trump might allocate himself the power, but for now there’s no way for him to strongarm the FDA like that.
But that’s exactly the problem. Will it be rushed through approval for political reasons? What does Jabbabonk care, if people die AFTER the election?
The unseemly rush is worldwide, and yes, vaccine development and trials have been run at an unprecedented rate. But they’re still running trials regulated by the FDA, and approval is subject to those results.
A second term Trump might allocate himself the power, but for now there’s no way for him to strongarm the FDA like that.
There’s no way for him to have the Executive Branch blanket refuse to obey subpoenas from Congress either. But he did. I expect he’ll lose the law suits . . . eventually. But he’s certainly achieved the main objective by delaying compliance for a year or two.
Similarly, he could fire the (acting!) FDA Commissioner and appoint someone who would skip the approval process and just declare something approved. It might well be beaten back. But at minimum it would confuse things. And beating it back could take months, at least.
There’s no way for him to have the Executive Branch blanket refuse to obey subpoenas from Congress either. But he did. I expect he’ll lose the law suits . . . eventually. But he’s certainly achieved the main objective by delaying compliance for a year or two.
Similarly, he could fire the (acting!) FDA Commissioner and appoint someone who would skip the approval process and just declare something approved. It might well be beaten back. But at minimum it would confuse things. And beating it back could take months, at least.
Similarly, he could fire the (acting!) FDA Commissioner and appoint someone who would skip the approval process and just declare something approved.
I could see this. The one thing the courts have done, Trump appointees or not, is if there’s a statutorily defined process, they insist it be followed. So, a new FDA leader, a vaccine arbitrarily approved, and about the end of September they hit a court that overrules the use of the vaccine. Then for all of October the Trump campaign hammers on, “There’s a vaccine but the liberal Democrats won’t. Let. You. Have. It.” If the Dems won’t file the lawsuit the Republicans have people who will.
Similarly, he could fire the (acting!) FDA Commissioner and appoint someone who would skip the approval process and just declare something approved.
I could see this. The one thing the courts have done, Trump appointees or not, is if there’s a statutorily defined process, they insist it be followed. So, a new FDA leader, a vaccine arbitrarily approved, and about the end of September they hit a court that overrules the use of the vaccine. Then for all of October the Trump campaign hammers on, “There’s a vaccine but the liberal Democrats won’t. Let. You. Have. It.” If the Dems won’t file the lawsuit the Republicans have people who will.
I don’t put anything past Trump, but I feel such scenarios are at the outside edge of what’s possible over the next few months.
I don’t put anything past Trump, but I feel such scenarios are at the outside edge of what’s possible over the next few months.
Some detail on the licensing of the Oxford vaccine.
After success of early stage covid-19 vaccine trial, Oxford University’s coronavirus IP policy explained
https://www.iam-media.com/coronavirus/exclusive-new-ip-policy-help-forge-partnerships-potential-uk-covid-19-vaccine
It will expedite access to the university’s IP to enable global deployment at scale of associated products and services to address the pandemic.
The OUI’s default approach regarding this access will be to offer non-exclusive, royalty-free licences to support free-of-charge, at-cost or cost + limited margin supply as appropriate. These terms will only apply for the duration of the pandemic.
Licence terms for post-pandemic commercial markets will be the subject of a separate agreement.
The grant of a licence during the pandemic does not guarantee the same licensee IP access after the pandemic.
Licences for the use of university IP to support commercial sales after the pandemic is declared over by the WHO will carry appropriate financial terms to allow the university to reinvest in teaching and research.
Some detail on the licensing of the Oxford vaccine.
After success of early stage covid-19 vaccine trial, Oxford University’s coronavirus IP policy explained
https://www.iam-media.com/coronavirus/exclusive-new-ip-policy-help-forge-partnerships-potential-uk-covid-19-vaccine
It will expedite access to the university’s IP to enable global deployment at scale of associated products and services to address the pandemic.
The OUI’s default approach regarding this access will be to offer non-exclusive, royalty-free licences to support free-of-charge, at-cost or cost + limited margin supply as appropriate. These terms will only apply for the duration of the pandemic.
Licence terms for post-pandemic commercial markets will be the subject of a separate agreement.
The grant of a licence during the pandemic does not guarantee the same licensee IP access after the pandemic.
Licences for the use of university IP to support commercial sales after the pandemic is declared over by the WHO will carry appropriate financial terms to allow the university to reinvest in teaching and research.
As well as the Oxford vaccine paper in the Lancet today, there was also encouraging data published on a Chinese vaccine, and also the one from a Pfizer/Biontech.
It will be months before there can be proof of efficacy from PIII trials, but all elicited neutralising antibody, and T cell responses. Immensely encouraging.
As well as the Oxford vaccine paper in the Lancet today, there was also encouraging data published on a Chinese vaccine, and also the one from a Pfizer/Biontech.
It will be months before there can be proof of efficacy from PIII trials, but all elicited neutralising antibody, and T cell responses. Immensely encouraging.
I’m putting this here because this thread is closest topically of the recent threads. If this were facebook, I’d tag sapient, who was particularly interested in how this situation (Missouri hair salon) would resolve over the longer term and what information could be gleaned from it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/wearing-mask-may-offer-protection-against-catching-severe-covid-19/5431323002/
I’m putting this here because this thread is closest topically of the recent threads. If this were facebook, I’d tag sapient, who was particularly interested in how this situation (Missouri hair salon) would resolve over the longer term and what information could be gleaned from it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/wearing-mask-may-offer-protection-against-catching-severe-covid-19/5431323002/
Thanks, hsh. I’m really grateful for masks as a mitigation effort, and for all who are willing to wear them (am and glad that they are helpful to the wearer as a reward). My community seems pretty good about it from my own observation, although UVA plans to open in August, and we’re somewhat worried about whether returning students will comply.
Virginia, as a whole, has spiked upwards, I think mostly because of the beach situation. Frustrating.
Thanks, hsh. I’m really grateful for masks as a mitigation effort, and for all who are willing to wear them (am and glad that they are helpful to the wearer as a reward). My community seems pretty good about it from my own observation, although UVA plans to open in August, and we’re somewhat worried about whether returning students will comply.
Virginia, as a whole, has spiked upwards, I think mostly because of the beach situation. Frustrating.
One other thing I think needs to be factored into any conversation about our vaccine rollout plans:
BBC: Russia report: UK ‘badly underestimated’ threat, says committee – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53484344
You know that the usual IRA troll farms are going to be trolling us hard in order to weaken the effectiveness of our response.
One other thing I think needs to be factored into any conversation about our vaccine rollout plans:
BBC: Russia report: UK ‘badly underestimated’ threat, says committee – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53484344
You know that the usual IRA troll farms are going to be trolling us hard in order to weaken the effectiveness of our response.
The latest in the right wing hit show seems to be the return of Hydroxychloroquine as a “cure” for COVID-19. Between the Yale Public Health dude who wrote the op-ed in Newsweek and the Houston-based doctor/ pentecostal preacher from Nigeria, who went viral on twitter with her own touting of the drug.
All of which led me to the AAPS and their endorsement of HCQ: https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/
They describe themselves as “a non-partisan professional association of physicians in all types of practices and specialties across the country” and yet later on on the same page we get:
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, AAPS, has been fighting the good fight to preserve the practice of private medicine since 1943. When the Clinton health plan was proposed, we fought for open meetings. And when the details came to light, the plan was halted. In the current battle over health care “reform,” the AAPS helped organize numerous physician rallys and has a pending lawsuit suit in the DC Federal District Court challenging the constitutionality of the ObamaCare insurance mandate.
…which seems a very selective definition of “non-partisan.”
And now they, and through them my homeschooling anti-abortion-but-pro-medical-choice-because-sovereignty family members are all ranting about how medicine should not be politicized.
Umm, hello…
The latest in the right wing hit show seems to be the return of Hydroxychloroquine as a “cure” for COVID-19. Between the Yale Public Health dude who wrote the op-ed in Newsweek and the Houston-based doctor/ pentecostal preacher from Nigeria, who went viral on twitter with her own touting of the drug.
All of which led me to the AAPS and their endorsement of HCQ: https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/
They describe themselves as “a non-partisan professional association of physicians in all types of practices and specialties across the country” and yet later on on the same page we get:
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, AAPS, has been fighting the good fight to preserve the practice of private medicine since 1943. When the Clinton health plan was proposed, we fought for open meetings. And when the details came to light, the plan was halted. In the current battle over health care “reform,” the AAPS helped organize numerous physician rallys and has a pending lawsuit suit in the DC Federal District Court challenging the constitutionality of the ObamaCare insurance mandate.
…which seems a very selective definition of “non-partisan.”
And now they, and through them my homeschooling anti-abortion-but-pro-medical-choice-because-sovereignty family members are all ranting about how medicine should not be politicized.
Umm, hello…
I think the argument is that, as long as you don’t advocate for or against political parties and candidates, you can claim to be non-partisan.
I think the argument is that, as long as you don’t advocate for or against political parties and candidates, you can claim to be non-partisan.
this politicization of science, medicine and actual knowing things is the modern right’s most worst endeavor – the one that’s going to lead to the most harm.
you’d think they’d learn, after looking at… ALL OF HISTORY.
but no.
this politicization of science, medicine and actual knowing things is the modern right’s most worst endeavor – the one that’s going to lead to the most harm.
you’d think they’d learn, after looking at… ALL OF HISTORY.
but no.
looking at… ALL OF HISTORY.
They’ve demonized, and made a virtue of rejecting, expertise in everything else. Why should history** be exempt? Especially since knowledge of it would trash some of their dearest idiocies.
** It occurs to me to wonder. Are the textualists taking over in consevative legal circles from the originalists simply because the latter requires learning something of history? Just a thought.
looking at… ALL OF HISTORY.
They’ve demonized, and made a virtue of rejecting, expertise in everything else. Why should history** be exempt? Especially since knowledge of it would trash some of their dearest idiocies.
** It occurs to me to wonder. Are the textualists taking over in consevative legal circles from the originalists simply because the latter requires learning something of history? Just a thought.
this politicization of science, medicine and actual knowing things is the modern right’s most worst endeavor – the one that’s going to lead to the most harm.
I’m a huge fan of data, even when economists (apparently the scourge of the American “left”, even though most economists in academia are probably on the “left”) use it. It’s pretty useful, although it can be manipulated. It gives us a lot of information about what is working, and what isn’t.
I’m hugely worried about the census.
this politicization of science, medicine and actual knowing things is the modern right’s most worst endeavor – the one that’s going to lead to the most harm.
I’m a huge fan of data, even when economists (apparently the scourge of the American “left”, even though most economists in academia are probably on the “left”) use it. It’s pretty useful, although it can be manipulated. It gives us a lot of information about what is working, and what isn’t.
I’m hugely worried about the census.
” Are the textualists taking over in consevative legal circles from the originalists simply because the latter requires learning something of history?”
More likely, it’s that they don’t get the answers they want. Just like “federalism”: it’s a means to an predetermined end.
Texualists, originalists: they’re actually pretextualists.
To show otherwise, there needs to be more situations of “I prefer X, but texualism/originalism says ‘not-X’, so that’s what wins”.
Of course, observing that RW judges are hypocrites is like observing that water is wet.
” Are the textualists taking over in consevative legal circles from the originalists simply because the latter requires learning something of history?”
More likely, it’s that they don’t get the answers they want. Just like “federalism”: it’s a means to an predetermined end.
Texualists, originalists: they’re actually pretextualists.
To show otherwise, there needs to be more situations of “I prefer X, but texualism/originalism says ‘not-X’, so that’s what wins”.
Of course, observing that RW judges are hypocrites is like observing that water is wet.
I’m hugely worried about the census.
If Trump wins, so his minions have more opportunities to tweak the results, then yes a serious problem.
On the other hand, if he’s gone the raw numbers should still be available. Granted, he may have managed to get an undercount — with a major assist for covid-19. But probably not as much as he and McConnell would like.
I’m hugely worried about the census.
If Trump wins, so his minions have more opportunities to tweak the results, then yes a serious problem.
On the other hand, if he’s gone the raw numbers should still be available. Granted, he may have managed to get an undercount — with a major assist for covid-19. But probably not as much as he and McConnell would like.
Gee, maybe AG Barr will express concern about this as well.
https://washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/29/umbrella-man-white-supremacist-minneapolis/?tid=pm_pop&itid=pm_pop
What, not willing any sucker bet today?
Actually, I would be surprised if a significant fraction of the violent protesters were NOT some flavor of right-wingers (though perhaps not actually paid by the Trump campaign) trying to spark bigger problems.
Gee, maybe AG Barr will express concern about this as well.
https://washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/29/umbrella-man-white-supremacist-minneapolis/?tid=pm_pop&itid=pm_pop
What, not willing any sucker bet today?
Actually, I would be surprised if a significant fraction of the violent protesters were NOT some flavor of right-wingers (though perhaps not actually paid by the Trump campaign) trying to spark bigger problems.
On the other hand, if he’s gone the raw numbers should still be available.
The raw numbers are likely to be inaccurate, because Trump is taking measures to discourage immigrant communities from participating.
On the other hand, if he’s gone the raw numbers should still be available.
The raw numbers are likely to be inaccurate, because Trump is taking measures to discourage immigrant communities from participating.
Inaccurate, yes. But still far better that they would be after manipulation.
Inaccurate, yes. But still far better that they would be after manipulation.
America: where pitching the benefits of a deadly plague is a savvy career move for fading celebrities:
https://www.insider.com/instagram-flagged-madonna-viral-video-promoting-disinformation-about-covid-19-2020-7
Apparently, the virus cause blindness in one eye, which would explain why historical pirates turned up wearing eye patches after previous black deaths:
https://www.google.com/search?q=madonna+with+eyepatch&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Vk9EyAH9oh6wZM%252CaeXSs6XlooG9MM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQa4AyASbG36YSd3nJX5-POwHNt4A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiiwai52PLqAhWWWM0KHRqnCz4Q9QEwC3oECAQQMg&biw=1920&bih=938#imgrc=WIcZ-p3xzkcTyM
It makes one look forward to peg legs.
Meanwhile: Louis Gohmert:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/508759-gops-gohmert-introduces-resolution-that-would-ban-the-democratic-party
He has co-sponsers. Including God.
And simultaneously, Louis Gohmert finally has a chance to be eternally canceled:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/louis-gohmert-who-refused-to-wear-a-mask-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-386076
I’ll bet he knew about this beforehand and was purposefully, like Ayn Rand Paul, walking around trying to infect his colleagues with his viral libertarian cooties.
It sure is lucky the White House is going all out in trying to prevent ONLY one American who is above all law from catching the bug.
Which raises a question: When the First Amendment starts leading to a bigger murder toll than the Second Amendment, shouldn’t the Second Amendment strive to catch up.
Rand Paul was knowingly wielding a deadly weapon.
Gohmert IS a deadly weapon.
You know, if Covid-19, like termites and rust, began dismantling and destroying private property …. buildings, vehicles, firearms … etc, the crypto-Christian Republican Party would be in full, defensive panic mode. As it is, like the neutron bomb, Covid leaves property standing and merely removes the human beings, so no big f&cking deal.
These subhumans would be masking up all building, houses, their SUVs, and their firearms.
A statue of a human being in their worldview is more valuable than the flesh and blood referent.
America: where pitching the benefits of a deadly plague is a savvy career move for fading celebrities:
https://www.insider.com/instagram-flagged-madonna-viral-video-promoting-disinformation-about-covid-19-2020-7
Apparently, the virus cause blindness in one eye, which would explain why historical pirates turned up wearing eye patches after previous black deaths:
https://www.google.com/search?q=madonna+with+eyepatch&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Vk9EyAH9oh6wZM%252CaeXSs6XlooG9MM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQa4AyASbG36YSd3nJX5-POwHNt4A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiiwai52PLqAhWWWM0KHRqnCz4Q9QEwC3oECAQQMg&biw=1920&bih=938#imgrc=WIcZ-p3xzkcTyM
It makes one look forward to peg legs.
Meanwhile: Louis Gohmert:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/508759-gops-gohmert-introduces-resolution-that-would-ban-the-democratic-party
He has co-sponsers. Including God.
And simultaneously, Louis Gohmert finally has a chance to be eternally canceled:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/louis-gohmert-who-refused-to-wear-a-mask-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-386076
I’ll bet he knew about this beforehand and was purposefully, like Ayn Rand Paul, walking around trying to infect his colleagues with his viral libertarian cooties.
It sure is lucky the White House is going all out in trying to prevent ONLY one American who is above all law from catching the bug.
Which raises a question: When the First Amendment starts leading to a bigger murder toll than the Second Amendment, shouldn’t the Second Amendment strive to catch up.
Rand Paul was knowingly wielding a deadly weapon.
Gohmert IS a deadly weapon.
You know, if Covid-19, like termites and rust, began dismantling and destroying private property …. buildings, vehicles, firearms … etc, the crypto-Christian Republican Party would be in full, defensive panic mode. As it is, like the neutron bomb, Covid leaves property standing and merely removes the human beings, so no big f&cking deal.
These subhumans would be masking up all building, houses, their SUVs, and their firearms.
A statue of a human being in their worldview is more valuable than the flesh and blood referent.
It makes one look forward to peg legs.
Peg legs are foolish, but I can accept that someone might want one. (At least as an option.) It’s the return of the hook that concerns me more.
It makes one look forward to peg legs.
Peg legs are foolish, but I can accept that someone might want one. (At least as an option.) It’s the return of the hook that concerns me more.
But still far better that they would be after manipulation.
that, too.
But still far better that they would be after manipulation.
that, too.
I’m wondering if it would be legal to run a make-up census in a year or two, to correct the flaws in this one. And then use that to re-redistribute House seats. Maybe one of the lawyers can speak to that.
I’m wondering if it would be legal to run a make-up census in a year or two, to correct the flaws in this one. And then use that to re-redistribute House seats. Maybe one of the lawyers can speak to that.
After a bunch of high-profile Republicans get COVID-19, some of whom might die from it, the conspiracy theory that Fauci helped create it to seize power (to do what, I don’t know) will gain further traction. “Look, more Republicans are getting it than Democrats! It’s targeted!” Their dumb behavior won’t be a consideration.
After a bunch of high-profile Republicans get COVID-19, some of whom might die from it, the conspiracy theory that Fauci helped create it to seize power (to do what, I don’t know) will gain further traction. “Look, more Republicans are getting it than Democrats! It’s targeted!” Their dumb behavior won’t be a consideration.
What we need, even more than a bunch of high-profile Republicans getting covid-19, is a bunch of big Republican donors getting it. When they see themselves getting hurt as a result of the actions of the folks they have been giving money to, they may decide to rethink their political investment strategy.
What we need, even more than a bunch of high-profile Republicans getting covid-19, is a bunch of big Republican donors getting it. When they see themselves getting hurt as a result of the actions of the folks they have been giving money to, they may decide to rethink their political investment strategy.
More on Gohmert:
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1288524502649966592
More on Gohmert:
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1288524502649966592
More on Gohmert:
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1288524502649966592
Staff members were berated and harassed when they wore or tried to wear masks, probably with large droplet spittle-flecked rants in their faces from the Texas Republican subhuman.
Louis, Louie,
Oh, baby!
Said, we gotta go.
I just don’t what good all those guns being packed in Texas are doing anyone.
What’s it gonna take?
More on Gohmert:
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1288524502649966592
Staff members were berated and harassed when they wore or tried to wear masks, probably with large droplet spittle-flecked rants in their faces from the Texas Republican subhuman.
Louis, Louie,
Oh, baby!
Said, we gotta go.
I just don’t what good all those guns being packed in Texas are doing anyone.
What’s it gonna take?
Course, the upside is, as trump claims, is that home prices will rise, thereby keeping those white hillbillies trump also claims are HIS people out of the middle class neighborhoods and the better schools and out of the middle class.
So, the white hillbillies have two choices.
Grit their teeth and attend schools with those who possess more melanin than they do, and who talk better and have been taught better manners, or rejoin the Democratic Party.
I’ve a feeling, given current trends, the first will win out, like always.
Maybe, before November, Trump and DeVos will propose an initiative to bus poor white (only) students in poor neighborhoods to more well-off schools in tonier neighborhoods.
Not a peep will be heard from the Boston Irish or the Southern cracker lobby this time around.
Course, the upside is, as trump claims, is that home prices will rise, thereby keeping those white hillbillies trump also claims are HIS people out of the middle class neighborhoods and the better schools and out of the middle class.
So, the white hillbillies have two choices.
Grit their teeth and attend schools with those who possess more melanin than they do, and who talk better and have been taught better manners, or rejoin the Democratic Party.
I’ve a feeling, given current trends, the first will win out, like always.
Maybe, before November, Trump and DeVos will propose an initiative to bus poor white (only) students in poor neighborhoods to more well-off schools in tonier neighborhoods.
Not a peep will be heard from the Boston Irish or the Southern cracker lobby this time around.
I just don’t what good all those guns being packed in Texas are doing anyone.
You mean we can’t just gun down the virus and destroy it?!?!? Who knew?
I just don’t what good all those guns being packed in Texas are doing anyone.
You mean we can’t just gun down the virus and destroy it?!?!? Who knew?
My 2:42pm is in reaction to this:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/07/trumps-unaffordable-housing-policy
My 2:42pm is in reaction to this:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/07/trumps-unaffordable-housing-policy
More on Gohmert:
Did you catch the detail that he and Barr were chatting during yesterday’s hearings? No masks; no distance. More than one way to get rid of an AG. (Although I would be sorry to lose a shot of getting him disbarred, like John Mitchell wss.)
More on Gohmert:
Did you catch the detail that he and Barr were chatting during yesterday’s hearings? No masks; no distance. More than one way to get rid of an AG. (Although I would be sorry to lose a shot of getting him disbarred, like John Mitchell wss.)
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
“President Donald Trump’s recent comments about saving the suburbs from new development appear to be more than just talk. A new fair housing rule released by the Trump administration this week prioritizes local control of housing policy in place of federal interventions to address the legacy of segregation (which progressives prefer) or incentivizing the deregulation of housing construction, which his own administration proposed earlier this year.
On Thursday, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) released its new Preserving Community and Neighborhood Choice rule, which establishes the standards jurisdictions receiving HUD grants have to meet in order to satisfy the 1968 Fair Housing Act’s requirement that federal housing programs be administered in a way that “affirmatively furthers fair housing.””
Trump’s New Fair Housing Rule Prioritizes Toxic Culture War Politics Over Deregulation: The president has ditched a promising, free market-influenced revamp of Obama-era fair housing regulations in favor of a legally dubious new rule that’s heavy on local control.
But, then, for decades politicians and bureaucrats on all sides of the political spectrum have been creating artificial shortages of housing. Why should Trump be different?
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
“President Donald Trump’s recent comments about saving the suburbs from new development appear to be more than just talk. A new fair housing rule released by the Trump administration this week prioritizes local control of housing policy in place of federal interventions to address the legacy of segregation (which progressives prefer) or incentivizing the deregulation of housing construction, which his own administration proposed earlier this year.
On Thursday, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) released its new Preserving Community and Neighborhood Choice rule, which establishes the standards jurisdictions receiving HUD grants have to meet in order to satisfy the 1968 Fair Housing Act’s requirement that federal housing programs be administered in a way that “affirmatively furthers fair housing.””
Trump’s New Fair Housing Rule Prioritizes Toxic Culture War Politics Over Deregulation: The president has ditched a promising, free market-influenced revamp of Obama-era fair housing regulations in favor of a legally dubious new rule that’s heavy on local control.
But, then, for decades politicians and bureaucrats on all sides of the political spectrum have been creating artificial shortages of housing. Why should Trump be different?
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
That fact that we have a massive incompetent demonstrating that government can make things worse is a very long way from demonstrating that government will do so. Although I suppose that, if you are looking for confirmation of your existing biases, it might be useful.
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
That fact that we have a massive incompetent demonstrating that government can make things worse is a very long way from demonstrating that government will do so. Although I suppose that, if you are looking for confirmation of your existing biases, it might be useful.
Trump’s going after the progressive vote?
“In an apparent bid to shore up his support among progressives in the San Francisco Bay Area, President Donald Trump is promising to prevent the construction of new low-income housing in suburban neighborhoods.
…
NIMBY (Not in My Backyard) opposition to new housing development is very much a cross-ideological phenomenon. NIMBYs on the right might put more emphasis on property values and crime. Those on the left will fret about gentrification and environmental sustainability. Regardless of the rhetoric, or even intent, the result is less housing gets built, and housing costs go up.
It’s unlikely that Trump will pick up too many votes in the blue suburbs of blue cities, but his defense of local control and low-density zoning probably isn’t hurting him there.”
Trump Appeals to Progressive Voters With Promise To Defend Suburbs Against New Housing Development: NIMBYism comes in many different ideological stripes. Fewer homes and higher rents are always the result.
Trump’s going after the progressive vote?
“In an apparent bid to shore up his support among progressives in the San Francisco Bay Area, President Donald Trump is promising to prevent the construction of new low-income housing in suburban neighborhoods.
…
NIMBY (Not in My Backyard) opposition to new housing development is very much a cross-ideological phenomenon. NIMBYs on the right might put more emphasis on property values and crime. Those on the left will fret about gentrification and environmental sustainability. Regardless of the rhetoric, or even intent, the result is less housing gets built, and housing costs go up.
It’s unlikely that Trump will pick up too many votes in the blue suburbs of blue cities, but his defense of local control and low-density zoning probably isn’t hurting him there.”
Trump Appeals to Progressive Voters With Promise To Defend Suburbs Against New Housing Development: NIMBYism comes in many different ideological stripes. Fewer homes and higher rents are always the result.
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
Trump was elected by the very people making that assertion.
Were they electing him to try to fix that problem? If so, then they have the worst possible judgment about what needs to be done in order to fix the problem, and their suggestions should be met with skepticism until they show they are capable of better judgment.
Were they electing him to burn it all down? Then he’s not a fulfillment of the assertion, but a professional saboteur.
Not much to recommend either side of that a/b.
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
Trump was elected by the very people making that assertion.
Were they electing him to try to fix that problem? If so, then they have the worst possible judgment about what needs to be done in order to fix the problem, and their suggestions should be met with skepticism until they show they are capable of better judgment.
Were they electing him to burn it all down? Then he’s not a fulfillment of the assertion, but a professional saboteur.
Not much to recommend either side of that a/b.
A publication which can say, apparently with a straight face, something like
is simply abdicating on any claim to connection to the real world. I live in said San Francisco Bay Area. There just isn’t any possible scenario where Trump is competitive in any Bay Area county. And even if you assume (for the sake of discussion) that he could somehow eek out pluralities in a couple of them (perhaps on the back of a big Green Party vote?), his chances of taking California are somewhere on the none side of none. As in, not even rising to slim.
Even for someone as disconnected from reality as Trump, wasting time or resources or anything else on trying to take California is wildly improbable.
A publication which can say, apparently with a straight face, something like
is simply abdicating on any claim to connection to the real world. I live in said San Francisco Bay Area. There just isn’t any possible scenario where Trump is competitive in any Bay Area county. And even if you assume (for the sake of discussion) that he could somehow eek out pluralities in a couple of them (perhaps on the back of a big Green Party vote?), his chances of taking California are somewhere on the none side of none. As in, not even rising to slim.
Even for someone as disconnected from reality as Trump, wasting time or resources or anything else on trying to take California is wildly improbable.
A publication which can say, apparently with a straight face, something like…is simply abdicating on any claim to connection to the real world.
On the other hand, it could be sarcasm.
A publication which can say, apparently with a straight face, something like…is simply abdicating on any claim to connection to the real world.
On the other hand, it could be sarcasm.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/column-gop-plan-cant-sue-172938487.html
You can’t sue your employers for the harm they do to you, but they can sue YOU for requesting they maintain your safety on that thing they a job.
The meat America packs is human meat.
An arm and a leg; it’s what’s fer dinner.
It is high time to make America unsafe and extraordinarily hazardous for Republicans and their children.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/column-gop-plan-cant-sue-172938487.html
You can’t sue your employers for the harm they do to you, but they can sue YOU for requesting they maintain your safety on that thing they a job.
The meat America packs is human meat.
An arm and a leg; it’s what’s fer dinner.
It is high time to make America unsafe and extraordinarily hazardous for Republicans and their children.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pompeos-declaration-of-cold-war/
I repeat, it is high time to make America unsafe and extraordinarily hazardous for Republicans and their children.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pompeos-declaration-of-cold-war/
I repeat, it is high time to make America unsafe and extraordinarily hazardous for Republicans and their children.
Cancel his children’s library cards and tear gas the filthy little devils if they try to enter the library premises.
See if 911 answers THEIR calls … from the library.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Sheriff+Dan+Coverley&filters=tnTID%3a%22D085E6C3-23F6-4826-8B6E-E3E69F27C2DA%22+tnVersion%3a%223634012%22+Segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%224%22+tnOrder%3a%226a39e3bf-277f-47b5-9f36-1bda86b2ebaf%22&efirst=4&form=HPNN01
Cancel his children’s library cards and tear gas the filthy little devils if they try to enter the library premises.
See if 911 answers THEIR calls … from the library.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Sheriff+Dan+Coverley&filters=tnTID%3a%22D085E6C3-23F6-4826-8B6E-E3E69F27C2DA%22+tnVersion%3a%223634012%22+Segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%224%22+tnOrder%3a%226a39e3bf-277f-47b5-9f36-1bda86b2ebaf%22&efirst=4&form=HPNN01
The Sheriff backtracked.
The Librarians should escalate.
The Sheriff backtracked.
The Librarians should escalate.
Boston Irish
They gentrified Southie and now all the Boston Irish are down on the south shore.
You mean we can’t just gun down the virus and destroy it?!?!?
Right? I mean, it worked for hurricanes, right?
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
:: facepalm ::
Boston Irish
They gentrified Southie and now all the Boston Irish are down on the south shore.
You mean we can’t just gun down the virus and destroy it?!?!?
Right? I mean, it worked for hurricanes, right?
Trump is a walking, talking advertisement for the assertion that if a problem can be made worse, the government will do it.
:: facepalm ::
I’m still trying to figure how Gohmert came down with a hoax.
I understand gargling bleach may work against hoaxes.
Call the HoaxBusters.
America: The Land of the Nitwit and the Home of the Knave
I have a concept for a 24-hour round-the-clock reality show: the unedited funerals of Republicans.
I’m still trying to figure how Gohmert came down with a hoax.
I understand gargling bleach may work against hoaxes.
Call the HoaxBusters.
America: The Land of the Nitwit and the Home of the Knave
I have a concept for a 24-hour round-the-clock reality show: the unedited funerals of Republicans.
On the other hand, it could be sarcasm.
I suppose it could. One of the many losses thanks to the Trump administration is that things which would once have been self-evident sarcasm keep turning out to be actual policy suggestions. It’s really hard to do over-the-top parody of folks who are that over the top in reality. Or what passes for reality for them.
On the other hand, it could be sarcasm.
I suppose it could. One of the many losses thanks to the Trump administration is that things which would once have been self-evident sarcasm keep turning out to be actual policy suggestions. It’s really hard to do over-the-top parody of folks who are that over the top in reality. Or what passes for reality for them.
Apparently, the feds are leaving Portland.
Fucking A.
Props to naked Athena, and the walls of Moms, Dads with leaf blowers, and Vets.
A friend notes the similarity to this historical moment. I’m glad the feds had the wit to step away before things progressed to live rounds.
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
And, in my dreams, we’ll all be saying that to the sleeveless fuckwit jackass on his way out the door in January.
Soon come.
Apparently, the feds are leaving Portland.
Fucking A.
Props to naked Athena, and the walls of Moms, Dads with leaf blowers, and Vets.
A friend notes the similarity to this historical moment. I’m glad the feds had the wit to step away before things progressed to live rounds.
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
And, in my dreams, we’ll all be saying that to the sleeveless fuckwit jackass on his way out the door in January.
Soon come.
The Sheriff backtracked.
Must be a true Trump acolyte: bluster, then cave at the first sign of serious resistance.
The Sheriff backtracked.
Must be a true Trump acolyte: bluster, then cave at the first sign of serious resistance.
Apparently, the feds are leaving Portland.
Although DHS Acting-even-though-I’m-far-over-the-legal-limit-to-do-so Secretary Wolf is naturally claiming that he hasn’t actually agreed to do so.
Apparently, the feds are leaving Portland.
Although DHS Acting-even-though-I’m-far-over-the-legal-limit-to-do-so Secretary Wolf is naturally claiming that he hasn’t actually agreed to do so.
You can’t sue your employers for the harm they do to you, but they can sue YOU for requesting they maintain your safety on that thing they a job.
Well not exactly. For starters, every state has a law that says if the employer carries worker’s compensation insurance, the employer is immune from suit. And, the employees benefits are limited in every state under WC. And, except in rare and extreme cases, there is no right to sue for punitive damages.
Finally, most states and the feds have some kind of remedy against litigants who bring “frivolous” lawsuits. The standard for claiming against a litigant for bringing a “groundless matter in bad faith” is quite high and in my career of mostly defending against lawsuits, I’ve asserted a frivolous lawsuit counterclaim exactly one time and that one was/is against a person who has filed and dismissed the same lawsuit now about 20 times in various state and federal courts against my client and several other companies. I have counter-sued to declare this person a vexatious litigant and to enjoin her against further filings against my client.
All up, if employers could be sued when employees get sick at work or get injured, if there is WC available, you’d run out of employers pretty quickly. The cost of liability insurance is already pretty high and so is WC insurance. At some point, interests have to be balanced, and the balance in every state I am familiar with, the injured employee gets medical and pay benefits and does not have to prove fault.
But even with all of that, I suspect there is a big and unacceptable gap in what WC insurers will and will not pay for and I’m betting they are all denying liability for CoVID. The injustice lies in immunizing employers AND not requiring WC to step up to the plate IF CoVID was more likely than not contracted at work. AND, the WC insurers will need federal support because there is no way in hell that the premiums charged for WC were high enough to cover millions of CoVID-inflicted employees.
It’s a mess and we are in uncharted waters in this and many other CoVID-related areas. Holding an employer liable because someone comes to work who shouldn’t and makes others sick, or allowing someone who went out partying to claim he/she got sick at work is problematic if you want to see people continue to work. The going price for defending a fairly straightforward case starts at about $40,000 at the very low end and up to $500,000 to go to verdict, and that is at relatively modest hourly rates. Very few businesses have the ability to carry that load and remain viable.
As a practical matter, lawsuits won’t make a workplace safe. Shitty employers don’t care if they get sued and decent employers need to stay in business. What is needed are (1) a way to make WC apply to work-place CoVID, (2) published workplace safety guidelines and (3) and a series of escalating fines for workplaces that do not follow published guidelines.
You can’t sue your employers for the harm they do to you, but they can sue YOU for requesting they maintain your safety on that thing they a job.
Well not exactly. For starters, every state has a law that says if the employer carries worker’s compensation insurance, the employer is immune from suit. And, the employees benefits are limited in every state under WC. And, except in rare and extreme cases, there is no right to sue for punitive damages.
Finally, most states and the feds have some kind of remedy against litigants who bring “frivolous” lawsuits. The standard for claiming against a litigant for bringing a “groundless matter in bad faith” is quite high and in my career of mostly defending against lawsuits, I’ve asserted a frivolous lawsuit counterclaim exactly one time and that one was/is against a person who has filed and dismissed the same lawsuit now about 20 times in various state and federal courts against my client and several other companies. I have counter-sued to declare this person a vexatious litigant and to enjoin her against further filings against my client.
All up, if employers could be sued when employees get sick at work or get injured, if there is WC available, you’d run out of employers pretty quickly. The cost of liability insurance is already pretty high and so is WC insurance. At some point, interests have to be balanced, and the balance in every state I am familiar with, the injured employee gets medical and pay benefits and does not have to prove fault.
But even with all of that, I suspect there is a big and unacceptable gap in what WC insurers will and will not pay for and I’m betting they are all denying liability for CoVID. The injustice lies in immunizing employers AND not requiring WC to step up to the plate IF CoVID was more likely than not contracted at work. AND, the WC insurers will need federal support because there is no way in hell that the premiums charged for WC were high enough to cover millions of CoVID-inflicted employees.
It’s a mess and we are in uncharted waters in this and many other CoVID-related areas. Holding an employer liable because someone comes to work who shouldn’t and makes others sick, or allowing someone who went out partying to claim he/she got sick at work is problematic if you want to see people continue to work. The going price for defending a fairly straightforward case starts at about $40,000 at the very low end and up to $500,000 to go to verdict, and that is at relatively modest hourly rates. Very few businesses have the ability to carry that load and remain viable.
As a practical matter, lawsuits won’t make a workplace safe. Shitty employers don’t care if they get sued and decent employers need to stay in business. What is needed are (1) a way to make WC apply to work-place CoVID, (2) published workplace safety guidelines and (3) and a series of escalating fines for workplaces that do not follow published guidelines.
Great points, McKTx.
I’m not so sympathetic to the insurers. Understanding, and quantifying risk, even low-probability tail risk, is their entire purpose for existence. If they can’t do that, and get themselves some reinsurance, they deserve to be driven to extinction.
Great points, McKTx.
I’m not so sympathetic to the insurers. Understanding, and quantifying risk, even low-probability tail risk, is their entire purpose for existence. If they can’t do that, and get themselves some reinsurance, they deserve to be driven to extinction.
I understand unbridled lawsuits by employees are a possible bottomless legal mess for employers, especially now that great numbers of the American people have proved they can’t be trusted to police their own private Covid prevention, and refuse to be held personally responsible, and I agree with your cautionary words on how workman’s comp should play into this.
It’s going to be what’s in the small print and McConnell’s small print in the age of Citizen’s United is smaller and more diabolical than Covid-19-laced droplets loose in an unventilated strip club.
His wife, Elaine Chao was not known for her rigorous enforcement of worker protections and the pillow talk in that bed must be something to hear when one asks the other “How was your day, dear?” and the remaining Koch Brother in bed with them pipes up with his thoughts on workman’s compensation, while Arthur Laffer, Sthen Moore, and Larry Kudlow (Tariffs, he hates em, wait .. Hooray for tariffs, long live tariffs!) snuggle up.
And God knows what the Federalist Society is doing behind the scenes. Last time I heard they aren’t especially fond of mandated manhole covers, fire alarms, or skulls and crossbones on items that Agatha Christie would use to poison her victims.
https://fedsoc.org/events/covid-19-in-the-workplace-mandated-paid-sick-leave
I haven’t read that yet; will try tomorrow.
I understand unbridled lawsuits by employees are a possible bottomless legal mess for employers, especially now that great numbers of the American people have proved they can’t be trusted to police their own private Covid prevention, and refuse to be held personally responsible, and I agree with your cautionary words on how workman’s comp should play into this.
It’s going to be what’s in the small print and McConnell’s small print in the age of Citizen’s United is smaller and more diabolical than Covid-19-laced droplets loose in an unventilated strip club.
His wife, Elaine Chao was not known for her rigorous enforcement of worker protections and the pillow talk in that bed must be something to hear when one asks the other “How was your day, dear?” and the remaining Koch Brother in bed with them pipes up with his thoughts on workman’s compensation, while Arthur Laffer, Sthen Moore, and Larry Kudlow (Tariffs, he hates em, wait .. Hooray for tariffs, long live tariffs!) snuggle up.
And God knows what the Federalist Society is doing behind the scenes. Last time I heard they aren’t especially fond of mandated manhole covers, fire alarms, or skulls and crossbones on items that Agatha Christie would use to poison her victims.
https://fedsoc.org/events/covid-19-in-the-workplace-mandated-paid-sick-leave
I haven’t read that yet; will try tomorrow.
Gotta admit, trumpeting a provision to shield companies from covid-19 liability makes a great red herring to dostract from whatever other scams McConnell is trying to hide in the bill. And he can even be forced to give it up during reconciliation negotiations, instead of his real priorities.
Gotta admit, trumpeting a provision to shield companies from covid-19 liability makes a great red herring to dostract from whatever other scams McConnell is trying to hide in the bill. And he can even be forced to give it up during reconciliation negotiations, instead of his real priorities.
More on Gohmert, the idiot savant:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/07/29/gop-death-cult-open-thread-plague-mole-edition/
He and Barr used the men’s room together, and the least of their problems was that Gohmert also chose today of all days to announce that he is a transitioning woman.
The House Republicans will now be bringing pee bottles to position under their desks for convenience and so they don’t die from mixing with the unclean.
More on Gohmert, the idiot savant:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/07/29/gop-death-cult-open-thread-plague-mole-edition/
He and Barr used the men’s room together, and the least of their problems was that Gohmert also chose today of all days to announce that he is a transitioning woman.
The House Republicans will now be bringing pee bottles to position under their desks for convenience and so they don’t die from mixing with the unclean.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509557-100-police-agencies-pull-out-of-democratic-national-convention-security
These folks will stand security for the Convention for free, and somehow I don’t think there will be much trouble.
https://www.newsweek.com/armed-black-demonstrators-challenge-white-supremacist-militia-georgias-stone-mountain-park-1515494
Interesting that tear gas is banned in times of war, unless the enemy is one’s own citizens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509557-100-police-agencies-pull-out-of-democratic-national-convention-security
These folks will stand security for the Convention for free, and somehow I don’t think there will be much trouble.
https://www.newsweek.com/armed-black-demonstrators-challenge-white-supremacist-militia-georgias-stone-mountain-park-1515494
Interesting that tear gas is banned in times of war, unless the enemy is one’s own citizens.
Well, he was probably holding back. In his notes he introduced the subject of Gohmert, as “My fellow conservative subhuman genocidal asshole”.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1288577803387117572
Those Tea Party deplorables have always been prone to Mrs Malapropisms.
Well, he was probably holding back. In his notes he introduced the subject of Gohmert, as “My fellow conservative subhuman genocidal asshole”.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1288577803387117572
Those Tea Party deplorables have always been prone to Mrs Malapropisms.
Ending the day on a good note:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Georgia+inmates+save+deputy&docid=13847503940205&mid=5318B9B4060A25B949555318B9B4060A25B94955&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Ending the day on a good note:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Georgia+inmates+save+deputy&docid=13847503940205&mid=5318B9B4060A25B949555318B9B4060A25B94955&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Interesting that tear gas is banned in times of war, unless the enemy is one’s own citizens.
That’s a natural result of that quaint late 19th century notion that war between civilized nations should be a humane and heavily regulated affair. So, they banned a lot of stuff that police at the time did not yet dream of using against their citizenry (as opposed to their subjects in the colonies who were also naturally not covered by the Hague Conventions).
Also police matters are internal affairs into which outside meddling and interference cannot be tolerated. Culling your own herd is a sovereign right.
Interesting that tear gas is banned in times of war, unless the enemy is one’s own citizens.
That’s a natural result of that quaint late 19th century notion that war between civilized nations should be a humane and heavily regulated affair. So, they banned a lot of stuff that police at the time did not yet dream of using against their citizenry (as opposed to their subjects in the colonies who were also naturally not covered by the Hague Conventions).
Also police matters are internal affairs into which outside meddling and interference cannot be tolerated. Culling your own herd is a sovereign right.
John Lewis wrote the following short piece before his death, to be published by the NYT on the day of his funeral. I link it here, for any of you who do not read the NYT (which I think is quite a few of you).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
John Lewis wrote the following short piece before his death, to be published by the NYT on the day of his funeral. I link it here, for any of you who do not read the NYT (which I think is quite a few of you).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
I take no pleasure in this, but since Pat Robertson and a host of grifting, grafting, gohmerting sadists haven’t thought to note it yet, as they did with AIDS, weather events, and Hillary Clinton’s pendulous Christmas tree ornaments, the sheer and swift biblical Old Testament symmetry of the dark forces of sociopathy and its meted-out punishments to the guilty is something astonishing to behold:
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/bill-montgomery-dead/
Two days ago:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/charlie-kirk-declares-he-wont-wear-masks-because-he-doesnt-believe-science
One hopes we have reached a Turning Point, but methinks EVIL is merely gathering strength for some indescribable cataclysm.
The fires of Mordor are not banked, to allude to another cultural touchstone the despicable conservative anti-American conservative movement has misappropriated for its own malign trumpian ends.
I take no pleasure in this, but since Pat Robertson and a host of grifting, grafting, gohmerting sadists haven’t thought to note it yet, as they did with AIDS, weather events, and Hillary Clinton’s pendulous Christmas tree ornaments, the sheer and swift biblical Old Testament symmetry of the dark forces of sociopathy and its meted-out punishments to the guilty is something astonishing to behold:
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/bill-montgomery-dead/
Two days ago:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/charlie-kirk-declares-he-wont-wear-masks-because-he-doesnt-believe-science
One hopes we have reached a Turning Point, but methinks EVIL is merely gathering strength for some indescribable cataclysm.
The fires of Mordor are not banked, to allude to another cultural touchstone the despicable conservative anti-American conservative movement has misappropriated for its own malign trumpian ends.
virus doesn’t care what you believe.
One hopes we have reached a Turning Point
we seem to arrive at the same turning point, repeatedly.
some folks just don’t seem to want to turn.
virus doesn’t care what you believe.
One hopes we have reached a Turning Point
we seem to arrive at the same turning point, repeatedly.
some folks just don’t seem to want to turn.
The fix is in. Trump and his subhuman minions will steal the election:
https://time.com/5873514/u-s-postal-service-downsizing-mail-in-ballots/
And even if they fail, there will enough of the scum left to destroy America:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/07/republicans-prepare-for-latest-round-of-pretending-to-be-deficit-hawks/
Wipe the Republican Party off the face the Earth.
If its noxious spore remnant finds it way to bide its time under rocks on other planets in the universe, nuke those planets.
We will NOT go around this vicious cycle yet again with these nihilists without savage violence.
The fix is in. Trump and his subhuman minions will steal the election:
https://time.com/5873514/u-s-postal-service-downsizing-mail-in-ballots/
And even if they fail, there will enough of the scum left to destroy America:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/07/republicans-prepare-for-latest-round-of-pretending-to-be-deficit-hawks/
Wipe the Republican Party off the face the Earth.
If its noxious spore remnant finds it way to bide its time under rocks on other planets in the universe, nuke those planets.
We will NOT go around this vicious cycle yet again with these nihilists without savage violence.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-30/trump-floats-idea-of-delaying-u-s-presidential-election
Voting by mail is fraudulent, his mouth shits, but he, the biggest fraud in American history, is the only f*ck permitted to vote by mail.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-30/trump-floats-idea-of-delaying-u-s-presidential-election
Voting by mail is fraudulent, his mouth shits, but he, the biggest fraud in American history, is the only f*ck permitted to vote by mail.
If employer liability is the hill the GOP wants to die on, well fine.* Make them pay for it: A $3T package with aid to state/muni govs, medicare for all, school aid, extend the $600 UC policy.
*Unless you work in a meatpacking plant, proving employer fault might be a tough road to hoe. But hells bells, employers routinely sue each other at the drop of a hat over contract issues. So what’s the big deal?
If employer liability is the hill the GOP wants to die on, well fine.* Make them pay for it: A $3T package with aid to state/muni govs, medicare for all, school aid, extend the $600 UC policy.
*Unless you work in a meatpacking plant, proving employer fault might be a tough road to hoe. But hells bells, employers routinely sue each other at the drop of a hat over contract issues. So what’s the big deal?
Have you ever hoed a road?
Have you ever hoed a road?
Voting by mail:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-the-truth-about-mail-in-voting-fair-safe-and-honest-11594920269?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
It’s expertise, so conservative dupes among us may feel free to gargle bleach.
Voting by mail:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-the-truth-about-mail-in-voting-fair-safe-and-honest-11594920269?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
It’s expertise, so conservative dupes among us may feel free to gargle bleach.
Have you ever hoed a road?
Well…
Have you ever hoed a road?
Well…
Welp:
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-herman-cain-dead-coronavirus-20200730-grsjw67vejhuvi36dukc5o63qa-story.html
Tulsa: The Republican murder capitol of America.
Send in the troops.
Welp:
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-herman-cain-dead-coronavirus-20200730-grsjw67vejhuvi36dukc5o63qa-story.html
Tulsa: The Republican murder capitol of America.
Send in the troops.
Despite his politics, there was something about that guy that I liked. I’m feeling genuinely sad about his death, while also feeling a little weird about feeling sad.
Despite his politics, there was something about that guy that I liked. I’m feeling genuinely sad about his death, while also feeling a little weird about feeling sad.
“Despite his politics, there was something about that guy that I liked”
Was it his “999” plan? Should have turned it upside down for more accuramacy.
“Despite his politics, there was something about that guy that I liked”
Was it his “999” plan? Should have turned it upside down for more accuramacy.
yeah, same here.
he was a much better version of Goofy Republican Businessman Tries Politics For A Laff than the one we got stuck with.
yeah, same here.
he was a much better version of Goofy Republican Businessman Tries Politics For A Laff than the one we got stuck with.
Have you ever hoed a road?
If I’m not mistaken, one hoes a row.
I’m also saddened by Cain’s death, as well as that of Montgomery. Time takes us all, eventually, but it’s sad to see otherwise competent people undone by their own folly.
Plus, it’s just a nasty freaking virus.
1485 people died of COVID yesterday. 1330 the day before. 4.5M total cases in the US, 152K dead. We’ve overtaken France in deaths per million.
Victim of our own mythology.
Have you ever hoed a road?
If I’m not mistaken, one hoes a row.
I’m also saddened by Cain’s death, as well as that of Montgomery. Time takes us all, eventually, but it’s sad to see otherwise competent people undone by their own folly.
Plus, it’s just a nasty freaking virus.
1485 people died of COVID yesterday. 1330 the day before. 4.5M total cases in the US, 152K dead. We’ve overtaken France in deaths per million.
Victim of our own mythology.
No lives matter to these ilk. Even their own.
Herman Cain, when he announced he was infected some weeks back:
“Former Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain announced Thursday that he has been hospitalized due to symptoms of COVID-19. But in an unusually on-the-nose development, the announcement came only hours after he denounced measures to stem the spread of the illness on Twitter in a show of political support for Donald Trump.”
al qaeda suicide terrorists, a few of them, were probably likable over pizza away from their day jobs as well when they weren’t wearing their work garb, suicide vests.
These people are literally dying, f*cking on purpose, to fulfill cleek’s law.
This is a deep, quintessentially American apotheosis of conservative movement perversion.
You don’t get any more radical and death-cultish than that.
And look at this racist scum, possibly in line for the third slot at Defense:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/30/anthony-tata-trump-nominee-pentagon-fox-news-obama-terrorist/5543918002/
Inhofe can drop dead too.
I wonder how Bill Bennett is feeling.
No lives matter to these ilk. Even their own.
Herman Cain, when he announced he was infected some weeks back:
“Former Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain announced Thursday that he has been hospitalized due to symptoms of COVID-19. But in an unusually on-the-nose development, the announcement came only hours after he denounced measures to stem the spread of the illness on Twitter in a show of political support for Donald Trump.”
al qaeda suicide terrorists, a few of them, were probably likable over pizza away from their day jobs as well when they weren’t wearing their work garb, suicide vests.
These people are literally dying, f*cking on purpose, to fulfill cleek’s law.
This is a deep, quintessentially American apotheosis of conservative movement perversion.
You don’t get any more radical and death-cultish than that.
And look at this racist scum, possibly in line for the third slot at Defense:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/30/anthony-tata-trump-nominee-pentagon-fox-news-obama-terrorist/5543918002/
Inhofe can drop dead too.
I wonder how Bill Bennett is feeling.
Goofy Republican Businessman Tries Politics
Sometime early in the Obama administration, I attended the national conference of funeral directors. Long story.
One of the keynote guys took the podium and offered some comments about what a crap POTUS Obama was. The man has no insight into what really makes this country work, he (the speaker) could do a better job, based on his experience running a chain of funeral homes.
A chain of two.
Everybody who ever made a million bucks in the private sector thinks they’re a f’ing genius.
Not all skill sets are transferrable.
Goofy Republican Businessman Tries Politics
Sometime early in the Obama administration, I attended the national conference of funeral directors. Long story.
One of the keynote guys took the podium and offered some comments about what a crap POTUS Obama was. The man has no insight into what really makes this country work, he (the speaker) could do a better job, based on his experience running a chain of funeral homes.
A chain of two.
Everybody who ever made a million bucks in the private sector thinks they’re a f’ing genius.
Not all skill sets are transferrable.
Have you ever hoed a road?
It’s not easy.
Have you ever hoed a road?
It’s not easy.
Have you ever hoed a road?
Sort of possible with a dirt road. But with concrete or asphalt? Not really.
Have you ever hoed a road?
Sort of possible with a dirt road. But with concrete or asphalt? Not really.
Re vote by mail… In the 13-state western region, something over 90% of all voters registered in time will receive ballots by mail this year. 100% in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington; 80% in Arizona; 70% in Montana; 60% in New Mexico; 30% in Wyoming; and smaller percentages in the rest.
Don’t know about the others, but in Colorado most ballots are returned through the collection boxes rather than by mail.
Re vote by mail… In the 13-state western region, something over 90% of all voters registered in time will receive ballots by mail this year. 100% in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington; 80% in Arizona; 70% in Montana; 60% in New Mexico; 30% in Wyoming; and smaller percentages in the rest.
Don’t know about the others, but in Colorado most ballots are returned through the collection boxes rather than by mail.
Sort of possible with a dirt road. But with concrete or asphalt? Not really.
The first brick is hard. After that, not too bad. Sort of screws up the road, though.
I was back in the town where I went to high school this past summer. They were preparing to repave the few-block main street. They had milled off multiple layers of asphalt and were down to the Depression-era bricks.
Sort of possible with a dirt road. But with concrete or asphalt? Not really.
The first brick is hard. After that, not too bad. Sort of screws up the road, though.
I was back in the town where I went to high school this past summer. They were preparing to repave the few-block main street. They had milled off multiple layers of asphalt and were down to the Depression-era bricks.
This is a dirt road. One grades a dirt road, with one of these.
These are rows. One hoes a row, with one of these.
They had milled off multiple layers of asphalt and were down to the Depression-era bricks.
granite cobbles, around my way.
This is a dirt road. One grades a dirt road, with one of these.
These are rows. One hoes a row, with one of these.
They had milled off multiple layers of asphalt and were down to the Depression-era bricks.
granite cobbles, around my way.
Increasingly, industrial-scale rows like those are hoed by machine. The most interesting methods — still mostly experiments — are small machines that straddle the rows and are equipped with video and computer-controlled blades that can recognize the difference between the crop and weeds and take out the weeds without hurting the crop.
Increasingly, industrial-scale rows like those are hoed by machine. The most interesting methods — still mostly experiments — are small machines that straddle the rows and are equipped with video and computer-controlled blades that can recognize the difference between the crop and weeds and take out the weeds without hurting the crop.
In the 13-state western region, something over 90% of all voters registered in time will receive ballots by mail this year
It should perhaps be noted that several of those states have been conducting their elections 100% by mail for years. Without problems. For them, it’s just business as usual — and I expect people there are wondering what Trump is on about….
In the 13-state western region, something over 90% of all voters registered in time will receive ballots by mail this year
It should perhaps be noted that several of those states have been conducting their elections 100% by mail for years. Without problems. For them, it’s just business as usual — and I expect people there are wondering what Trump is on about….
This is a dirt road. One grades a dirt road, with one of these.
These are rows. One hoes a row, with one of these.
One notes that for rows the ruts are deeper. 😉
This is a dirt road. One grades a dirt road, with one of these.
These are rows. One hoes a row, with one of these.
One notes that for rows the ruts are deeper. 😉
Hoeing rows (of sugar beets) even has creationist connections. In 19th century Germany this (backbreaking) work was left to women because of the biblically alleged difference in rib numbers. This was claimed to make it easier for women than men.
Btw, that’s how US professors of anatomy/biology/medicine recognize evengelical home-schooled students. They are those who count the ribs in order to find out which skeletons are male and which are female.
Hoeing rows (of sugar beets) even has creationist connections. In 19th century Germany this (backbreaking) work was left to women because of the biblically alleged difference in rib numbers. This was claimed to make it easier for women than men.
Btw, that’s how US professors of anatomy/biology/medicine recognize evengelical home-schooled students. They are those who count the ribs in order to find out which skeletons are male and which are female.
How to tell you are totally in la-la land: even Moscow Mitch says flat out that election day is fixed and won’t be changed. Period.
The inevitable climb-down (i.e. admission of error without admitting error) has started: “The President was merely raising the question.” All together now, in chorus: Bullsh*t!
How to tell you are totally in la-la land: even Moscow Mitch says flat out that election day is fixed and won’t be changed. Period.
The inevitable climb-down (i.e. admission of error without admitting error) has started: “The President was merely raising the question.” All together now, in chorus: Bullsh*t!
Well, if MAGAts prefer, they’re welcome to cast their votes on December first.
I hear the lines will be much shorter then.
Well, if MAGAts prefer, they’re welcome to cast their votes on December first.
I hear the lines will be much shorter then.
President Troll is trolling. bragging about imaginary accomplishments and lying about the extent of his authority is his M.O.
President Troll is trolling. bragging about imaginary accomplishments and lying about the extent of his authority is his M.O.
Every dog in my neighborhood went to full quivering point when the troll whistled this:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/07/whats-he-getting-at/
Read the article.
He calls out the name of any old n*gger to scare those white suburbanites.
Every dog in my neighborhood went to full quivering point when the troll whistled this:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/07/whats-he-getting-at/
Read the article.
He calls out the name of any old n*gger to scare those white suburbanites.
To be on the safe side, she ought to ask her doctor to throw in syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, and AIDS tests too, when you consider all else her conservative fascist husband, modeled after American republican fascists, has “given” his people:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Michelle+Bolsonaro+coronavirus&filters=tnTID%3a%22F265F285-9D7E-4365-91CE-1592950AE7CC%22+tnVersion%3a%223635323%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%221%22+tnOrder%3a%22ffac4e96-f481-4cda-98e9-7afbf8a6f662%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=0
To be on the safe side, she ought to ask her doctor to throw in syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, and AIDS tests too, when you consider all else her conservative fascist husband, modeled after American republican fascists, has “given” his people:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Michelle+Bolsonaro+coronavirus&filters=tnTID%3a%22F265F285-9D7E-4365-91CE-1592950AE7CC%22+tnVersion%3a%223635323%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%221%22+tnOrder%3a%22ffac4e96-f481-4cda-98e9-7afbf8a6f662%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=0
OK, OK, already. Can I just claim it was a typo? Probably not. LOL.
OK, OK, already. Can I just claim it was a typo? Probably not. LOL.
Can I just claim it was a typo? Probably not. LOL.
I’d go with claiming it was a deliberate effort to bring a little amusement into our lives. When it is in short supply elsewhere.
Can I just claim it was a typo? Probably not. LOL.
I’d go with claiming it was a deliberate effort to bring a little amusement into our lives. When it is in short supply elsewhere.
Derp.
Americans Who Mainly Get Their News on Social Media Are Less Engaged, Less Knowledgeable!
Derp.
Americans Who Mainly Get Their News on Social Media Are Less Engaged, Less Knowledgeable!
OK, OK, already. Can I just claim it was a typo?
sorry bobbyp.
every once in a while my inner pedantic nerd gets loose and runs wild.
OK, OK, already. Can I just claim it was a typo?
sorry bobbyp.
every once in a while my inner pedantic nerd gets loose and runs wild.
OK, finally, something they don’t like:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/federalist-society-co-founder-calls-trump-bid-to-change-election-day-fascistic-impeachable
OK, finally, something they don’t like:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/federalist-society-co-founder-calls-trump-bid-to-change-election-day-fascistic-impeachable
Patio Pizza.
I got nothing.
Patio Pizza.
I got nothing.
As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m a huge fan of the USPS. Imagine my frustration when, for the first time in a very long time, I was missing an important mail delivery that tracking said was supposed to have been delivered. I entered a complaint in their online system, and received the package the next day (yesterday).
This morning, I read this.
Ruining our country on purpose. We must get them out (reason 1,000,000).
As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m a huge fan of the USPS. Imagine my frustration when, for the first time in a very long time, I was missing an important mail delivery that tracking said was supposed to have been delivered. I entered a complaint in their online system, and received the package the next day (yesterday).
This morning, I read this.
Ruining our country on purpose. We must get them out (reason 1,000,000).
Americans Who Mainly Get Their News on Social Media Are Less Engaged, Less Knowledgeable!
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
Americans Who Mainly Get Their News on Social Media Are Less Engaged, Less Knowledgeable!
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
They probably think professional wrestling is a real sport, rather than theater, too.
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
They probably think professional wrestling is a real sport, rather than theater, too.
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
This made me smile.
They’re the only ones who didn’t already know that.
This made me smile.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-happened-to-stacey-abrams-will-happen-to-joe-biden?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-happened-to-stacey-abrams-will-happen-to-joe-biden?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
More about ruining the Post Office, and why they’re doing it.
More about ruining the Post Office, and why they’re doing it.
If you are a part of the government which has high favorability ratings, which the Post Office does, then someone who wants to shrink all things government will make trashing that part a priority. To make it less well regarded first, because it’s a bad example for their views.
If you are a part of the government which has high favorability ratings, which the Post Office does, then someone who wants to shrink all things government will make trashing that part a priority. To make it less well regarded first, because it’s a bad example for their views.
More about ruining the Post Office, and why they’re doing it.
When (R)’s can’t win, they cheat.
More about ruining the Post Office, and why they’re doing it.
When (R)’s can’t win, they cheat.
But the Dems, the anti-cheaters, are the real cheaters, because stopping the cheating would help them. Don’t ask why stopping the cheating would help them, though. That doesn’t need to be part of the discussion.
But the Dems, the anti-cheaters, are the real cheaters, because stopping the cheating would help them. Don’t ask why stopping the cheating would help them, though. That doesn’t need to be part of the discussion.
Well, look who else is chiming in:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/stephen-miller-falsely-claims-voter-identity-is-not-confirmed-for-mail-in-ballots
The entire Democratic Party, half the country, is nothing but non-citizen illegal immigrants to the fascist subhuman Republican Party.
The November election is nothing more than nightmare, we dreamers.
Savage violence is unavoidable.
Well, look who else is chiming in:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/stephen-miller-falsely-claims-voter-identity-is-not-confirmed-for-mail-in-ballots
The entire Democratic Party, half the country, is nothing but non-citizen illegal immigrants to the fascist subhuman Republican Party.
The November election is nothing more than nightmare, we dreamers.
Savage violence is unavoidable.
Abolish Homeland Security and ICE.
Defund the Justice Department.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33483418/homeland-security-compiled-reports-on-journalists/
Abolish Homeland Security and ICE.
Defund the Justice Department.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33483418/homeland-security-compiled-reports-on-journalists/
Several bombshells alleged in this report from Vanity Fair about Kushy’s role in bungling the COVID response.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air
Unauthorized ordering of test kits. Leaving states with D governors to hang.
The usual…
Several bombshells alleged in this report from Vanity Fair about Kushy’s role in bungling the COVID response.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air
Unauthorized ordering of test kits. Leaving states with D governors to hang.
The usual…
From that Vanity Fair article, it appears the Kushner’s group actually came up with a good plan for ramping up and coordinating national testing. But it never saw the light of day.
Maybe Kushner was the one who buried it. But my bet would be that it got ditched by the man that hates testing because he’s dumb enough to think that more testing somehow causes more cases.
From that Vanity Fair article, it appears the Kushner’s group actually came up with a good plan for ramping up and coordinating national testing. But it never saw the light of day.
Maybe Kushner was the one who buried it. But my bet would be that it got ditched by the man that hates testing because he’s dumb enough to think that more testing somehow causes more cases.
To anybody with experience of the requirements and procedures for USG procurement, the story of the million tests is absolutely gobsmacking. I haven’t heard a better example (even in the Michael Lewis book) of the sheer and unbelievable ignorance and incompetence of the Trump people, and God knows there have been plenty examples to choose from.
To anybody with experience of the requirements and procedures for USG procurement, the story of the million tests is absolutely gobsmacking. I haven’t heard a better example (even in the Michael Lewis book) of the sheer and unbelievable ignorance and incompetence of the Trump people, and God knows there have been plenty examples to choose from.
wj, while Trump certainly would have ditched it, I bet that Kushner never even presented it. You can be sure that continuous monitoring of the Emperor’s moods by Javanka goes on, and the decisions about what to present or not are based solely on whether doing so will win the Emperor’s personal favour. That’s how it is in dictatorships, or regimes where the advisors are unqualified family, not professionals.
wj, while Trump certainly would have ditched it, I bet that Kushner never even presented it. You can be sure that continuous monitoring of the Emperor’s moods by Javanka goes on, and the decisions about what to present or not are based solely on whether doing so will win the Emperor’s personal favour. That’s how it is in dictatorships, or regimes where the advisors are unqualified family, not professionals.
This dovetails with a declaration of martial law, though by then the doves will be fully plucked.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-admin-sidelines-cdc-to-give-pentagon-unprecedented-role-in-vaccine-distribution
QAnon can make up the rest of what is coming.
This dovetails with a declaration of martial law, though by then the doves will be fully plucked.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-admin-sidelines-cdc-to-give-pentagon-unprecedented-role-in-vaccine-distribution
QAnon can make up the rest of what is coming.
Everything is gonna continue to go steadily downhill, until the big orange man is outta there.
I could basically have started posting this in January 2017, once a day every day, and then continued posting it once a day every day right through today, right up until January 2021 or 2025. Whichever it ends up being.
The details are important, of course, and probably worth discussing for various reasons.
But the above pretty much sums it up.
Everything is gonna continue to go steadily downhill, until the big orange man is outta there.
I could basically have started posting this in January 2017, once a day every day, and then continued posting it once a day every day right through today, right up until January 2021 or 2025. Whichever it ends up being.
The details are important, of course, and probably worth discussing for various reasons.
But the above pretty much sums it up.
He, Trump thinks the Pentagon is on His side. That’s how wannabe dictators always think: the military exists to serve il Duce first, The Nation second.
Nancy Pelosi needs to make some private calls to the Joint Chiefs, to remind them who it is that buys their toys for them. Calling the heads of Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, Northrop, and a few others, either before or afterwards, to convey the same message, might be even more effective.
–TP
He, Trump thinks the Pentagon is on His side. That’s how wannabe dictators always think: the military exists to serve il Duce first, The Nation second.
Nancy Pelosi needs to make some private calls to the Joint Chiefs, to remind them who it is that buys their toys for them. Calling the heads of Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, Northrop, and a few others, either before or afterwards, to convey the same message, might be even more effective.
–TP
Everything is gonna continue to go steadily downhill, until the big orange man is outta there.
I might quibble about “steadily.” Seems more like fits and starts of acceleration on the downhill path. But otherwise, yeah pretty much.
And, of course, all of us saw it coming from the instant he stumbled to accedental victory. (Although I confess that my imagination failed me in predicting just how bad, and on how many fronts, it would be. Guess I should watch more horror movies.)
Everything is gonna continue to go steadily downhill, until the big orange man is outta there.
I might quibble about “steadily.” Seems more like fits and starts of acceleration on the downhill path. But otherwise, yeah pretty much.
And, of course, all of us saw it coming from the instant he stumbled to accedental victory. (Although I confess that my imagination failed me in predicting just how bad, and on how many fronts, it would be. Guess I should watch more horror movies.)
The plan:
“Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.”
Genocide as American government policy finally comes to the homeland after being dispensed abroad for so long.
Execute all of them.
Biden should continue Trump’s order that the military carry out the vaccine disbursal.
Blue states get the shots, red states get shot.
The plan:
“Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.”
Genocide as American government policy finally comes to the homeland after being dispensed abroad for so long.
Execute all of them.
Biden should continue Trump’s order that the military carry out the vaccine disbursal.
Blue states get the shots, red states get shot.
More on the genocide of vulnerable American citizens because of their voting habits.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/31/1965464/-Trump-did-the-crime-then-he-arranged-the-cover-up-only-this-time-the-crime-is-genocide
Move the Hague to Washington DC and try and execute all Republicans. All of them running loose like this are dangerous to national security.
We’re going to need bigger holding pens.
Also: Defund the Supreme Court.
More on the genocide of vulnerable American citizens because of their voting habits.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/31/1965464/-Trump-did-the-crime-then-he-arranged-the-cover-up-only-this-time-the-crime-is-genocide
Move the Hague to Washington DC and try and execute all Republicans. All of them running loose like this are dangerous to national security.
We’re going to need bigger holding pens.
Also: Defund the Supreme Court.
We’ll try Herman Cain posthumously for the murder of Herman Cain as well, despite his bipartisan approach to murdering Americans because of the political affiliations.
Also, none of this will distract from the trial and punishment of Bill Clinton for his role in the Epstein rapey camps, in case some creeping look-over-there whataboutism is about to overtake these pages, like maybe we support the Chinese Communist Party.
Trump of course will not stand trial for his Epstein romps.
He’ll already have been brutally executed in public three different ways.
We’ll try Herman Cain posthumously for the murder of Herman Cain as well, despite his bipartisan approach to murdering Americans because of the political affiliations.
Also, none of this will distract from the trial and punishment of Bill Clinton for his role in the Epstein rapey camps, in case some creeping look-over-there whataboutism is about to overtake these pages, like maybe we support the Chinese Communist Party.
Trump of course will not stand trial for his Epstein romps.
He’ll already have been brutally executed in public three different ways.
This might prove that having a slithering reptile as a father and a mother with an innate conscience can yield a semblance of humanity:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/james-murdoch-resigns-from-news-corp-board-over-certain-editorial-content-2020-07-31?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
This might prove that having a slithering reptile as a father and a mother with an innate conscience can yield a semblance of humanity:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/james-murdoch-resigns-from-news-corp-board-over-certain-editorial-content-2020-07-31?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Flood the zone with shit, the motto of the contemporary trumpian Republican Party, as coined by the late, executed felon, Steve Bannon:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/how-many-people-in-the-u-s-are-hospitalized-with-covid-19-who-knows
Flood the zone with shit, the motto of the contemporary trumpian Republican Party, as coined by the late, executed felon, Steve Bannon:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/how-many-people-in-the-u-s-are-hospitalized-with-covid-19-who-knows
Actually, the vote was held last week and it’s decided .. Ferdinand Adolf Idi Valdimir Trump won with 99% of the tally:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/huh-trump-now-says-he-wants-election-day-moved-up
Actually, the vote was held last week and it’s decided .. Ferdinand Adolf Idi Valdimir Trump won with 99% of the tally:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/huh-trump-now-says-he-wants-election-day-moved-up
I might quibble about “steadily.”
Fair enough.
I’ll amend that to “monotonically downhill”.
I might quibble about “steadily.”
Fair enough.
I’ll amend that to “monotonically downhill”.
Why have the military distribute the vaccine?
Well, when it’s the NEW! SUPER! TrumpVax!, formulated out of 50% bleach, 50% lysol, Trump’s got to make sure that all the “right people” get vaccinated. Forcibly.
Why have the military distribute the vaccine?
Well, when it’s the NEW! SUPER! TrumpVax!, formulated out of 50% bleach, 50% lysol, Trump’s got to make sure that all the “right people” get vaccinated. Forcibly.
I’ll accept that friendly amendmeny.
I’ll accept that friendly amendmeny.
when it’s the NEW! SUPER! TrumpVax!, formulated out of 50% bleach, 50% lysol, Trump’s got to make sure that all the “right people” get vaccinated. Forcibly.
How nice for the anti-vaxxer Trump supporters to finally be proven right — which that formulation** for TrumpVax would surely do. And by their boy, too.
** Although I’m sure he will insist on a last minute addition of Hydroxychloroquine to the mix.
when it’s the NEW! SUPER! TrumpVax!, formulated out of 50% bleach, 50% lysol, Trump’s got to make sure that all the “right people” get vaccinated. Forcibly.
How nice for the anti-vaxxer Trump supporters to finally be proven right — which that formulation** for TrumpVax would surely do. And by their boy, too.
** Although I’m sure he will insist on a last minute addition of Hydroxychloroquine to the mix.
Trump™-brand Hydroxychloroquine is the best Hydroxychloroquine you can buy. a lot of people are saying so.
Trump™-brand Hydroxychloroquine is the best Hydroxychloroquine you can buy. a lot of people are saying so.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/an-american-story
https://people.com/politics/trump-ignores-miamis-mandatory-mask-rule-after-landing-in-covid-19-hotspot/
Perhaps in his most private hours, he throws up a little into his hankie, like Himmler was reported to do when witnessing the execution of Jews.
But, I doubt it.
Genocide.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/an-american-story
https://people.com/politics/trump-ignores-miamis-mandatory-mask-rule-after-landing-in-covid-19-hotspot/
Perhaps in his most private hours, he throws up a little into his hankie, like Himmler was reported to do when witnessing the execution of Jews.
But, I doubt it.
Genocide.
JDT, I’m not quite clear why you’re upset that Trump went to Miami (a covid-19 hotspot) and didn’t wear a mask. I think it’s an excellent bet that Trump doesn’t (yet) have covid-19. So his lack of a mask doesn’t directly** put others at risk.
On the other hand, that lack, in a covid-19 hotspot definitely puts him at increased risk. So suppose it results in him coming down sick. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy. Right?
** Sure, it’s a bad example to others. But then, that’s old news.
JDT, I’m not quite clear why you’re upset that Trump went to Miami (a covid-19 hotspot) and didn’t wear a mask. I think it’s an excellent bet that Trump doesn’t (yet) have covid-19. So his lack of a mask doesn’t directly** put others at risk.
On the other hand, that lack, in a covid-19 hotspot definitely puts him at increased risk. So suppose it results in him coming down sick. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy. Right?
** Sure, it’s a bad example to others. But then, that’s old news.
Think of the dozens, if not hundreds of advance operatives, federal, state, local, and trump’s private militia, it takes to secure these appearances, and think of how we are hearing that more of THEM are testing positive each day for the disease .. and think how … geez, never mind.
If it matters to ya, I’m still slightly more upset at Himmler, even after all this time.
Think of the dozens, if not hundreds of advance operatives, federal, state, local, and trump’s private militia, it takes to secure these appearances, and think of how we are hearing that more of THEM are testing positive each day for the disease .. and think how … geez, never mind.
If it matters to ya, I’m still slightly more upset at Himmler, even after all this time.
I hear ya about the support staff. But they’re at the same risk, whether Trump wears a mask or not. Sure, he ought to emulate Biden and just stay home. But that’s a different question.
I hear ya about the support staff. But they’re at the same risk, whether Trump wears a mask or not. Sure, he ought to emulate Biden and just stay home. But that’s a different question.
Spent 40 minutes this morning watching Obama’s funeral oration for John Lewis.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
Still a great place to be rich, if that’s what floats your boat.
We’ll see how it goes in November. It’s gonna be a mess, we’ll see how we come through it.
Spent 40 minutes this morning watching Obama’s funeral oration for John Lewis.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
Still a great place to be rich, if that’s what floats your boat.
We’ll see how it goes in November. It’s gonna be a mess, we’ll see how we come through it.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project.
No question we’ve taken a big step (or three) backwards. But it’s hardly the first time in our history that’s happened. In the past, what we’ve seen is on the order of three steps forward; two steps back. It’s not inconceivable that the same sort of thing will happen again this time.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project.
No question we’ve taken a big step (or three) backwards. But it’s hardly the first time in our history that’s happened. In the past, what we’ve seen is on the order of three steps forward; two steps back. It’s not inconceivable that the same sort of thing will happen again this time.
231 years is a good run for any set of rules, but the players seem less and less inclined to play within the spirit of them.
No telling where this goes next.
Reply hazy. Ask again later.
231 years is a good run for any set of rules, but the players seem less and less inclined to play within the spirit of them.
No telling where this goes next.
Reply hazy. Ask again later.
And JHFC, if Joe goes with his hurt feelings and picks Rice over Harris, he’s a complete idiot. Rice will just be an excuse for the right to trot out the whole Benghazi thing again without adding much to counterbalance that.
And JHFC, if Joe goes with his hurt feelings and picks Rice over Harris, he’s a complete idiot. Rice will just be an excuse for the right to trot out the whole Benghazi thing again without adding much to counterbalance that.
And wj, we have faced huge challenges in the past during the Civil War and the Great Depression for sure. We were fortunate that neither of those ended the country. Hindsight takes away a lot of the sense of how fragile those moments really were. Those are not comforting examples for me.
And wj, we have faced huge challenges in the past during the Civil War and the Great Depression for sure. We were fortunate that neither of those ended the country. Hindsight takes away a lot of the sense of how fragile those moments really were. Those are not comforting examples for me.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/08/jared-kushner-wanted-to-get-shit-done-he-didnt/
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/01/unsafe-workplace/
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/08/jared-kushner-wanted-to-get-shit-done-he-didnt/
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/01/unsafe-workplace/
Spent 40 minutes this morning watching Obama’s funeral oration for John Lewis.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
If your take-away from Obama’s speech was to lose confidence in the American project, I don’t think we watched the same speech.
And let’s recall that “we,” the majority of the country, did choose Obama twice. Trump was “elected” so to speak because of “irregularities” that played into a major flaw in our electoral system. The majority of the American people didn’t elect him.
I realize that scare quotes are bad writing, but let’s be honest. By all accounts, from our national security experts and from the Mueller Report, the Russians interfered with our election on Trump’s behalf, and succeeded in getting him elected. The New York Times, and other seemingly legitimate media outlets assisted Russia with that project, sensationalizing trivial errors of Clinton’s, while downplaying evidence of gross criminality in Trump’s history. James Comey publicly announced that a criminal investigation into Clinton yielded nothing to prosecute, while at the same time lambasting her email practices, and was silent on investigations into the Trump organization, causing a significant change in polling data. There was evidence of substantial voter suppression.
2016 was not a normal election, and Trump soundly lost the popular vote. Obviously, it could happen again, this year and repeatedly. But let’s also remember that many people were extremely dispirited about the state of the country when Obama was in office, when the federal government was functioning quite well, if not yet delivering everything to everyone. Heightening the contradictions seemed appealing to some who now (perhaps) see what that means.
If John Lewis’s life meant anything, it’s that we can’t sit back and expect things to go well, and be surprised when they don’t. Barack Obama’s presidency wasn’t a given. He stood on the shoulders of John Lewis, whose odds weren’t good, but he beat them. We have to fight too, even if we can’t manage as heroic an effort.
John Lewis’s life was about beating the odds, and we have to do that as well. That’s what I heard Obama say.
Spent 40 minutes this morning watching Obama’s funeral oration for John Lewis.
Hard to believe the same country chose him, twice, and then elected Trump.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
If your take-away from Obama’s speech was to lose confidence in the American project, I don’t think we watched the same speech.
And let’s recall that “we,” the majority of the country, did choose Obama twice. Trump was “elected” so to speak because of “irregularities” that played into a major flaw in our electoral system. The majority of the American people didn’t elect him.
I realize that scare quotes are bad writing, but let’s be honest. By all accounts, from our national security experts and from the Mueller Report, the Russians interfered with our election on Trump’s behalf, and succeeded in getting him elected. The New York Times, and other seemingly legitimate media outlets assisted Russia with that project, sensationalizing trivial errors of Clinton’s, while downplaying evidence of gross criminality in Trump’s history. James Comey publicly announced that a criminal investigation into Clinton yielded nothing to prosecute, while at the same time lambasting her email practices, and was silent on investigations into the Trump organization, causing a significant change in polling data. There was evidence of substantial voter suppression.
2016 was not a normal election, and Trump soundly lost the popular vote. Obviously, it could happen again, this year and repeatedly. But let’s also remember that many people were extremely dispirited about the state of the country when Obama was in office, when the federal government was functioning quite well, if not yet delivering everything to everyone. Heightening the contradictions seemed appealing to some who now (perhaps) see what that means.
If John Lewis’s life meant anything, it’s that we can’t sit back and expect things to go well, and be surprised when they don’t. Barack Obama’s presidency wasn’t a given. He stood on the shoulders of John Lewis, whose odds weren’t good, but he beat them. We have to fight too, even if we can’t manage as heroic an effort.
John Lewis’s life was about beating the odds, and we have to do that as well. That’s what I heard Obama say.
Rice will just be an excuse for the right to trot out the whole Benghazi thing again without adding much to counterbalance that.
I prefer Harris, and hopes he picks her. But who gives a flying f’ what bullshit the right trots out? If we let “the right” make up whatever, give it a name and an exclamation point, and then we hide from it, we’re done.
Rice will just be an excuse for the right to trot out the whole Benghazi thing again without adding much to counterbalance that.
I prefer Harris, and hopes he picks her. But who gives a flying f’ what bullshit the right trots out? If we let “the right” make up whatever, give it a name and an exclamation point, and then we hide from it, we’re done.
russell didn’t say that was what he took away from Obama’s speech. A plain reading of what he wrote is that the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
And anyone who thinks that it doesn’t matter who Biden chooses isn’t paying attention to how uncertain Biden’s support is at the seams. He has a coalition mostly by being a safety pick. I don’t think that WI, PA, FL, or AZ are in the bag for him and conspiracy theory runs rife. He does not want to tie himself to Hillary Clinton with his VP pick. That conspiracy narrative is right there and has a wide audience. Biden wants to keep the narrative fresh and keep the attention focused on the Trump fiasco.
russell didn’t say that was what he took away from Obama’s speech. A plain reading of what he wrote is that the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
And anyone who thinks that it doesn’t matter who Biden chooses isn’t paying attention to how uncertain Biden’s support is at the seams. He has a coalition mostly by being a safety pick. I don’t think that WI, PA, FL, or AZ are in the bag for him and conspiracy theory runs rife. He does not want to tie himself to Hillary Clinton with his VP pick. That conspiracy narrative is right there and has a wide audience. Biden wants to keep the narrative fresh and keep the attention focused on the Trump fiasco.
A plain reading of what he wrote is that the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
We can all plainly read what he wrote; moreover, he can explain it. We’re not studying an ancient oracle. My point was that “we” didn’t “choose” Trump. Maybe you didn’t plainly read my reply.
These potential candidates are being vetted, and there’s a lot of work done to figure out what might be worrisome about each candidate. My guess is that they each have their positives and negatives. Your point about Rice is well taken, but Harris also has many detractors, and gullible believers in right-wing conspiracy theories are going to do their thing. I noticed on Twitter that they’re trying to do a birther number on Harris (just for example, and I’ve read plenty more trash about Harris, and that’s what it is – trash).
I’m not here to lobby for Rice. As I said, I prefer Harris. But getting emotionally involved in who Biden picks for VEEP is a fool’s errand, IMO.
A plain reading of what he wrote is that the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
We can all plainly read what he wrote; moreover, he can explain it. We’re not studying an ancient oracle. My point was that “we” didn’t “choose” Trump. Maybe you didn’t plainly read my reply.
These potential candidates are being vetted, and there’s a lot of work done to figure out what might be worrisome about each candidate. My guess is that they each have their positives and negatives. Your point about Rice is well taken, but Harris also has many detractors, and gullible believers in right-wing conspiracy theories are going to do their thing. I noticed on Twitter that they’re trying to do a birther number on Harris (just for example, and I’ve read plenty more trash about Harris, and that’s what it is – trash).
I’m not here to lobby for Rice. As I said, I prefer Harris. But getting emotionally involved in who Biden picks for VEEP is a fool’s errand, IMO.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
It gives me a shiver to hear russell say this, because I remember using the phrase “the American project” before the 2016 election, when I said here that the election of Trump would be an existential threat to it. Nothing he himself has done has surprised me, but I have been surprised by the extent to which he has been enabled. The behaviour of the pols like Graham, and McConnell, in defiance of everything they ever claimed to believe or hold dear, has been the truly astounding and depressing thing, which really threatens American democracy, such as it is (i.e. EC et al). I have been watching the Lincoln Project ads with interest, but I just read in the WaPo an article about them, in which this, about one of their founders, appeared:
But Schmidt, who it’s fair to say is disgusted by Trump, is unapologetic about his life’s work. Yes, he urged McCain to pick Sarah Palin as his running mate, a decision ultimately driven by politics. But no, he’s not renouncing the Republican Party as he knew it.
“I think a good sign of being an idiot in life is believing that all virtue is vested in one of these political parties and all evil in the other,” he says. He rejects those who say he should be ashamed of the past: “The necessity for an act of atonement against conviction is self-righteous and smug at a level that beggars my ability to describe it in the English language. And I would suggest that they’re part of the problem, not so much part of the solution.”
Clearly, I think he’s right about the first sentence in quotes in that extract. But he recommended Palin, and he sees no reason to be ashamed of the past? The refusal to see the clear progression from Palin to Trump, shows that these people, however much I welcome their help in the short term, are morally (and probably intellectually) defective.
I back sapient’s determination to fight, and fight hard, although I agree with nous above. But, like russell, I fear for the future of the American project. It’s really hard to see a good way back from this.
More and more, I’m losing confidence in the American project. Other places are going to have to pick up the baton, because we’ve lost the plot.
It gives me a shiver to hear russell say this, because I remember using the phrase “the American project” before the 2016 election, when I said here that the election of Trump would be an existential threat to it. Nothing he himself has done has surprised me, but I have been surprised by the extent to which he has been enabled. The behaviour of the pols like Graham, and McConnell, in defiance of everything they ever claimed to believe or hold dear, has been the truly astounding and depressing thing, which really threatens American democracy, such as it is (i.e. EC et al). I have been watching the Lincoln Project ads with interest, but I just read in the WaPo an article about them, in which this, about one of their founders, appeared:
But Schmidt, who it’s fair to say is disgusted by Trump, is unapologetic about his life’s work. Yes, he urged McCain to pick Sarah Palin as his running mate, a decision ultimately driven by politics. But no, he’s not renouncing the Republican Party as he knew it.
“I think a good sign of being an idiot in life is believing that all virtue is vested in one of these political parties and all evil in the other,” he says. He rejects those who say he should be ashamed of the past: “The necessity for an act of atonement against conviction is self-righteous and smug at a level that beggars my ability to describe it in the English language. And I would suggest that they’re part of the problem, not so much part of the solution.”
Clearly, I think he’s right about the first sentence in quotes in that extract. But he recommended Palin, and he sees no reason to be ashamed of the past? The refusal to see the clear progression from Palin to Trump, shows that these people, however much I welcome their help in the short term, are morally (and probably intellectually) defective.
I back sapient’s determination to fight, and fight hard, although I agree with nous above. But, like russell, I fear for the future of the American project. It’s really hard to see a good way back from this.
I back sapient’s determination to fight, and fight hard, although I agree with nous above. But, like russell, I fear for the future of the American project. It’s really hard to see a good way back from this.
I appreciate your kind words about me. I agree that seeing a good way back from this is difficult. But we have to look long and hard, find it, and make it happen.
I am as guilty of despair as anyone. But John Lewis’s life and persistence was promise in the face of bleak odds. That’s what I took from the words that were spoken there, along with the warning that there’s no rest.
I back sapient’s determination to fight, and fight hard, although I agree with nous above. But, like russell, I fear for the future of the American project. It’s really hard to see a good way back from this.
I appreciate your kind words about me. I agree that seeing a good way back from this is difficult. But we have to look long and hard, find it, and make it happen.
I am as guilty of despair as anyone. But John Lewis’s life and persistence was promise in the face of bleak odds. That’s what I took from the words that were spoken there, along with the warning that there’s no rest.
What sapient said at 5:30.
At 5:52, not so much. Even we care what bullsh*t the right spouts — not for ourselves, but because of its ability to influence marginal voters. Should they pay the least attention to such self-evident nonsense? No. Will they pay attention to it, if the right’s garbage machine gets an opening to use it? Sadly, not unlikely. THAT’S why we care.
What sapient said at 5:30.
At 5:52, not so much. Even we care what bullsh*t the right spouts — not for ourselves, but because of its ability to influence marginal voters. Should they pay the least attention to such self-evident nonsense? No. Will they pay attention to it, if the right’s garbage machine gets an opening to use it? Sadly, not unlikely. THAT’S why we care.
Will they pay attention to it, if the right’s garbage machine gets an opening to use it? Sadly, not unlikely.
Of course they will. What candidate is immune from that? The garbage machine is programmed to spew out garbage. About everyone. Of course, it’s possible to come up with an unknown person about which no garbage can immediately take hold. That’s the Karen Bass ploy. But there are those things …
So you tell me, how is Harris immune from the garbage machine?
What we need to do better is to not buy into the garbage machine ourselves, which some of us are pretty bad at. We need to fight it.
Will they pay attention to it, if the right’s garbage machine gets an opening to use it? Sadly, not unlikely.
Of course they will. What candidate is immune from that? The garbage machine is programmed to spew out garbage. About everyone. Of course, it’s possible to come up with an unknown person about which no garbage can immediately take hold. That’s the Karen Bass ploy. But there are those things …
So you tell me, how is Harris immune from the garbage machine?
What we need to do better is to not buy into the garbage machine ourselves, which some of us are pretty bad at. We need to fight it.
I’m not emotionally involved in Biden’s pick. I’m worried that the rationales for his pick coming out of his camp shows that they still have a really shallow understanding of the big picture.
He’s not the superhero picking his sidekick, he’s a fragile starting QB picking his backup.
Honestly, I think he should set Chris Dodd and Jill Biden’s advice aside, call Obama to ask about the VP pick, and go with the person that Obama thinks he should have on the ticket.
I’m not emotionally involved in Biden’s pick. I’m worried that the rationales for his pick coming out of his camp shows that they still have a really shallow understanding of the big picture.
He’s not the superhero picking his sidekick, he’s a fragile starting QB picking his backup.
Honestly, I think he should set Chris Dodd and Jill Biden’s advice aside, call Obama to ask about the VP pick, and go with the person that Obama thinks he should have on the ticket.
Honestly, I think he should set Chris Dodd and Jill Biden’s advice aside, call Obama to ask about the VP pick, and go with the person that Obama thinks he should have on the ticket.
I agree. If he hasn’t sought Obama’s advice, Obama needs to give it to him. My guess is that this is going on.
Honestly, I think he should set Chris Dodd and Jill Biden’s advice aside, call Obama to ask about the VP pick, and go with the person that Obama thinks he should have on the ticket.
I agree. If he hasn’t sought Obama’s advice, Obama needs to give it to him. My guess is that this is going on.
So you tell me, how is Harris immune from the garbage machine?
Harris isn’t, of course. No VP pick is. But it makes a difference, I think, if the garbage machine has the luxury of leveraging past garbage. Which, with Benghazi, it would.
I don’t have any particular favorite among the women being talked about. (I have no clue which of them are being seriously considered.) I would hope Biden avoids those who have never held elective office, either at the Federal level or as governor. Just because I think they would be too far behind on the learning curve.
So you tell me, how is Harris immune from the garbage machine?
Harris isn’t, of course. No VP pick is. But it makes a difference, I think, if the garbage machine has the luxury of leveraging past garbage. Which, with Benghazi, it would.
I don’t have any particular favorite among the women being talked about. (I have no clue which of them are being seriously considered.) I would hope Biden avoids those who have never held elective office, either at the Federal level or as governor. Just because I think they would be too far behind on the learning curve.
Which, with Benghazi, it would.
I think that the only people who are worried about Benghazi! are people who would never vote for Biden. Just my impression.
Biden will pick somebody. That person will be fine. I hope it’s Kamala Harris, but if it isn’t, there is probably a decent argument why it wouldn’t work to have her there, and I’m not going to second guess it.
Which, with Benghazi, it would.
I think that the only people who are worried about Benghazi! are people who would never vote for Biden. Just my impression.
Biden will pick somebody. That person will be fine. I hope it’s Kamala Harris, but if it isn’t, there is probably a decent argument why it wouldn’t work to have her there, and I’m not going to second guess it.
I don’t think the Benghazi narrative in itself would do anything to sway a potential Biden voter, but I think him turning to someone so intimately associated with the Clintons well could. Biden needs to lean on Obama and keep the Clintons at several arms length. There’s a role for Hillary to play in voter outreach, but that is a role in the DNC shadows preaching to the choir.
I don’t think the Benghazi narrative in itself would do anything to sway a potential Biden voter, but I think him turning to someone so intimately associated with the Clintons well could. Biden needs to lean on Obama and keep the Clintons at several arms length. There’s a role for Hillary to play in voter outreach, but that is a role in the DNC shadows preaching to the choir.
Basically, I think that Rice is the worst choice, narratively, of the choices supposedly on the short list, and would prefer any of the others to her for that reason alone.
And when I hear that Biden is afraid of some of his potentials’ ambitions for the position, I really worry. He needs to pick someone who can do his job and do it well.
Basically, I think that Rice is the worst choice, narratively, of the choices supposedly on the short list, and would prefer any of the others to her for that reason alone.
And when I hear that Biden is afraid of some of his potentials’ ambitions for the position, I really worry. He needs to pick someone who can do his job and do it well.
I think him turning to someone so intimately associated with the Clintons well could.
Sorry to quote myself, but “What we need to do better is to not buy into the garbage machine ourselves, which some of us are pretty bad at. We need to fight it.” Thanks for illustrating my point. Rice is an amazing woman. Please quit helping the haters.
Just saying. Also:
And when I hear that Biden is afraid of some of his potentials’ ambitions for the position, I really worry.
I read these kinds of articles and take them with a grain of salt. Biden was not my primary pick by a long shot, but this is malicious gossip. And the thing about gossip is maybe it’s true, but maybe it isn’t. The VP isn’t our call anyway.
I think him turning to someone so intimately associated with the Clintons well could.
Sorry to quote myself, but “What we need to do better is to not buy into the garbage machine ourselves, which some of us are pretty bad at. We need to fight it.” Thanks for illustrating my point. Rice is an amazing woman. Please quit helping the haters.
Just saying. Also:
And when I hear that Biden is afraid of some of his potentials’ ambitions for the position, I really worry.
I read these kinds of articles and take them with a grain of salt. Biden was not my primary pick by a long shot, but this is malicious gossip. And the thing about gossip is maybe it’s true, but maybe it isn’t. The VP isn’t our call anyway.
Night all.
Night all.
Anybody who isn’t ambitious wouldn’t even have gotten into consideration. Claiming to be worried (or, second hand, that someone else is worried) about that strikes me as nonsense. Probably nonsense covering some other objection, but nonsense nonetheless.
Anybody who isn’t ambitious wouldn’t even have gotten into consideration. Claiming to be worried (or, second hand, that someone else is worried) about that strikes me as nonsense. Probably nonsense covering some other objection, but nonsense nonetheless.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53625728
It begins.
It will be precedence for worldwide upheaval and savage fury against conservative fascism in every corner of the world, including China, Russia, and America.
If Bolsonaro is successful in shutting down that country’s Congress and Courts, Trump will do it here as well in banana republic America.
Bolsonaro must be destroyed.
Trump admires Putin’s and Xi Jinping’s ruthlessness and absolute totalitarian power.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53625728
It begins.
It will be precedence for worldwide upheaval and savage fury against conservative fascism in every corner of the world, including China, Russia, and America.
If Bolsonaro is successful in shutting down that country’s Congress and Courts, Trump will do it here as well in banana republic America.
Bolsonaro must be destroyed.
Trump admires Putin’s and Xi Jinping’s ruthlessness and absolute totalitarian power.
Trump admires Putin’s and Xi Jinping’s ruthlessness and absolute totalitarian power.
Not so much “admires” as envies. Not least because he knows that, if push comes to shove, he doesn’t have the balls to see it thru. Instead, he’ll cave. All that’s necessary is that we have the courage to stand up to him when it’s crunch time.
Trump admires Putin’s and Xi Jinping’s ruthlessness and absolute totalitarian power.
Not so much “admires” as envies. Not least because he knows that, if push comes to shove, he doesn’t have the balls to see it thru. Instead, he’ll cave. All that’s necessary is that we have the courage to stand up to him when it’s crunch time.
The “too ambitious” comment is a long standing and pernicious slur which seems almost always to be applied to women candidates.
I don’t know if this account is true, but it doesn’t dispose me to think very well of Chris Dodd.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/31/harris-allies-biden-call-dodd-389848
The “too ambitious” comment is a long standing and pernicious slur which seems almost always to be applied to women candidates.
I don’t know if this account is true, but it doesn’t dispose me to think very well of Chris Dodd.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/31/harris-allies-biden-call-dodd-389848
Dodd, Rendell, all of the high priest good ole white boy race and gender gate keepers, need to go… not to the burning prosecutorial Hell where Trump and company are going, but GO!
“Too ambitious” is a mainstream Democratic synonym for what conservative republicans call “uppity”.*
I’ll take with great relief the Biden ham sandwich at the top, but we don’t need a picnic basket full of rancid ham sandwiches and green-around-the-gills potato salad that have been sitting out in the sun too long.
Aren’t these the same dopes who didn’t think Clinton needed to set foot in Michigan in 2016?
As I recall, Dodd had little use for his female lessers in Congress besides finding the top of their heads a good place on which to set his drink.
I don’t like power brokers.
I want power broken.
Loyalty is what sniffing dupe republican dogs do around the ass end of THEIR fascist demagogues, after of course having their palms greased with tax cuts.
*Uppity
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/07/31/tucker-shreds-greasy-politician-obama-for-desecrating-a-memorial-with-deeply-dishonest-campaign-speech-953771
I’m going to speak at Carlson’s funeral after the racist, despicable cuck is executed.
That he will be the deceased guest of honor IS the desecration.
Dodd, Rendell, all of the high priest good ole white boy race and gender gate keepers, need to go… not to the burning prosecutorial Hell where Trump and company are going, but GO!
“Too ambitious” is a mainstream Democratic synonym for what conservative republicans call “uppity”.*
I’ll take with great relief the Biden ham sandwich at the top, but we don’t need a picnic basket full of rancid ham sandwiches and green-around-the-gills potato salad that have been sitting out in the sun too long.
Aren’t these the same dopes who didn’t think Clinton needed to set foot in Michigan in 2016?
As I recall, Dodd had little use for his female lessers in Congress besides finding the top of their heads a good place on which to set his drink.
I don’t like power brokers.
I want power broken.
Loyalty is what sniffing dupe republican dogs do around the ass end of THEIR fascist demagogues, after of course having their palms greased with tax cuts.
*Uppity
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/07/31/tucker-shreds-greasy-politician-obama-for-desecrating-a-memorial-with-deeply-dishonest-campaign-speech-953771
I’m going to speak at Carlson’s funeral after the racist, despicable cuck is executed.
That he will be the deceased guest of honor IS the desecration.
Harris is great. Nothing against her, at all.
But. Short term, she can do more good applying her prosecutorial skills in the Senate, particularly with a majority that gives her subpoena power.
And opening up a Senate seat for GOP ratfnckery worries me. Oh sure, everyone says “CA is safe for D’s!”. But “top-two” primaries and the example of Ahnold say that perhaps not as safe as assumed.
Harris is great. Nothing against her, at all.
But. Short term, she can do more good applying her prosecutorial skills in the Senate, particularly with a majority that gives her subpoena power.
And opening up a Senate seat for GOP ratfnckery worries me. Oh sure, everyone says “CA is safe for D’s!”. But “top-two” primaries and the example of Ahnold say that perhaps not as safe as assumed.
And opening up a Senate seat for GOP ratfnckery worries me.
There are a lot of considerations, and this is one of them, which is why I’m not actively rooting for any particular candidate. I’ll do what small part I can to make as many Republicans leave office as possible. That’s as high as my pay grade takes me.
And opening up a Senate seat for GOP ratfnckery worries me.
There are a lot of considerations, and this is one of them, which is why I’m not actively rooting for any particular candidate. I’ll do what small part I can to make as many Republicans leave office as possible. That’s as high as my pay grade takes me.
I agree that Harris’ talents would be put to better use in the Senate, though heading up the Department of Justice and putting cuffs on Barr would be a sweet thing to behold.
I agree that Harris’ talents would be put to better use in the Senate, though heading up the Department of Justice and putting cuffs on Barr would be a sweet thing to behold.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/people-of-the-lie/
Bring it all down.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/people-of-the-lie/
Bring it all down.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/did-trump-suffer-some-sort-of-medical-crisis-today
Pence will be worse, because he actually believes God will kill his enemies, whereas Trump merely hires God as a contractor hitman who he can later not pay.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/did-trump-suffer-some-sort-of-medical-crisis-today
Pence will be worse, because he actually believes God will kill his enemies, whereas Trump merely hires God as a contractor hitman who he can later not pay.
moreover, he can explain it.
the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
nous has captured the gist of it.
In 2016, Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote, to Trump’s 46.1%. That is not a commanding victory.
About 40% of folks eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote at all.
You can factor in the Russian fnckery, but that mostly took the form of inflammatory ads, consumed by people who were inclined to believe them.
You can factor in the James Comey “we’re looking into a fresh batch of emails” October surprise, but that just exposes the political bullshit going on in the FBI.
And you can factor in 25 years of anti-Clinton propaganda, but that has to be weighed against 40 years of Trump basically being a highly visible flaming asshole.
The fact that more or less half of the people who could be bothered to show up and vote were willing to cast their vote for Donald J Trump is profoundly disturbing. To me.
What I see is a public who are either indifferent, or too freaking busy to be engaged in public life because they’re working their @sses off trying to make the rent, or people who have their piece of the pie and don’t give a crap about anybody else except maybe other people who are just like them. Or, people who feel ignored by and excluded from public life, in the sense of the “res publica”, and so the idea of burning it all down seems like a reasonable gamble.
What we have at the moment, as far as I can see, is a nation with a sort of performative democracy, but whose governance is directed by and for the interests of a tiny plutocratic minority. Everyone else gets to scramble for their freaking lives, or else try to survive on resentfully given social safety net scraps.
Is it possible to turn that around? Yes, and we have in fact done precisely that before. See also, our history from the Gilded Age to the New Deal.
Do I see it happening now? No, not really.
So I’m pessimistic about the American project.
We’ll see how it goes in November. If the election is remotely fair, Trump will be tossed out on his ass. But he’s a corrupt egomaniac with basically, not only no scruples, but no understanding of what a scruple is, so I don’t know how it’s going to play out.
It’s not just about Trump. The level of support he continues to command – both among the population in general, the (R) party and the institutions of governance, and among people who have the means to influence events – is basically astounding to me, and tells me that the kind of ground-level civic virtue necessary to responsible self-governance is pretty freaking thin on the ground.
Trump is, for a disturbingly broad slice of America, who we are. There is no way around that fact. It is plainly in evidence.
And that is why I’m pessimistic. It’s always been a fragile enterprise, there have been any number of times we could have gone belly-up in one way or another.
This is one of those times.
moreover, he can explain it.
the speech was what prompted his meditation on who Americans choose for their leaders and what that could mean for the future of the US.
nous has captured the gist of it.
In 2016, Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote, to Trump’s 46.1%. That is not a commanding victory.
About 40% of folks eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote at all.
You can factor in the Russian fnckery, but that mostly took the form of inflammatory ads, consumed by people who were inclined to believe them.
You can factor in the James Comey “we’re looking into a fresh batch of emails” October surprise, but that just exposes the political bullshit going on in the FBI.
And you can factor in 25 years of anti-Clinton propaganda, but that has to be weighed against 40 years of Trump basically being a highly visible flaming asshole.
The fact that more or less half of the people who could be bothered to show up and vote were willing to cast their vote for Donald J Trump is profoundly disturbing. To me.
What I see is a public who are either indifferent, or too freaking busy to be engaged in public life because they’re working their @sses off trying to make the rent, or people who have their piece of the pie and don’t give a crap about anybody else except maybe other people who are just like them. Or, people who feel ignored by and excluded from public life, in the sense of the “res publica”, and so the idea of burning it all down seems like a reasonable gamble.
What we have at the moment, as far as I can see, is a nation with a sort of performative democracy, but whose governance is directed by and for the interests of a tiny plutocratic minority. Everyone else gets to scramble for their freaking lives, or else try to survive on resentfully given social safety net scraps.
Is it possible to turn that around? Yes, and we have in fact done precisely that before. See also, our history from the Gilded Age to the New Deal.
Do I see it happening now? No, not really.
So I’m pessimistic about the American project.
We’ll see how it goes in November. If the election is remotely fair, Trump will be tossed out on his ass. But he’s a corrupt egomaniac with basically, not only no scruples, but no understanding of what a scruple is, so I don’t know how it’s going to play out.
It’s not just about Trump. The level of support he continues to command – both among the population in general, the (R) party and the institutions of governance, and among people who have the means to influence events – is basically astounding to me, and tells me that the kind of ground-level civic virtue necessary to responsible self-governance is pretty freaking thin on the ground.
Trump is, for a disturbingly broad slice of America, who we are. There is no way around that fact. It is plainly in evidence.
And that is why I’m pessimistic. It’s always been a fragile enterprise, there have been any number of times we could have gone belly-up in one way or another.
This is one of those times.
I’d be interested in lj’s take on this:
https://mb.com.ph/2020/08/02/japan-acted-like-the-virus-had-gone-now-its-spreading-everywhere/
I’d be interested in lj’s take on this:
https://mb.com.ph/2020/08/02/japan-acted-like-the-virus-had-gone-now-its-spreading-everywhere/
VP fantasy baseball league thoughts:
Rice is highly qualified, and would probably const Biden a point or two in the popular vote, because Benghazi. Full stop.
Harris is highly qualified, and might cost Biden a point or two in the popular vote, because California. Then again, she might win him a point or so, because she exudes kick-ass competence. Then again, her kick-ass competence comes with an aggressive edge, which some folks will find off-putting, especially from a black woman.
(D)’s operate under rules of engagement that (R)’s simply don’t give a crap about, so there is strong and not-unreasonable pressure on Biden to pick a woman of color.
My own druthers would be Abrams, because kick-ass competence, a demeanor demonstrating a generally taking-no-sh*t attitude that is also refreshing non-hostile, and Georgia instead of California.
Duckworth is also attractive because she has absolutely unassailable patriotic cred.
But I’m down with the ham sandwich. Any kind of bread, any kind of cheese, mustard or mayo, with or without pickles tomato and lettuce.
Ham sandwich.
Get that sorry bastard out of there.
VP fantasy baseball league thoughts:
Rice is highly qualified, and would probably const Biden a point or two in the popular vote, because Benghazi. Full stop.
Harris is highly qualified, and might cost Biden a point or two in the popular vote, because California. Then again, she might win him a point or so, because she exudes kick-ass competence. Then again, her kick-ass competence comes with an aggressive edge, which some folks will find off-putting, especially from a black woman.
(D)’s operate under rules of engagement that (R)’s simply don’t give a crap about, so there is strong and not-unreasonable pressure on Biden to pick a woman of color.
My own druthers would be Abrams, because kick-ass competence, a demeanor demonstrating a generally taking-no-sh*t attitude that is also refreshing non-hostile, and Georgia instead of California.
Duckworth is also attractive because she has absolutely unassailable patriotic cred.
But I’m down with the ham sandwich. Any kind of bread, any kind of cheese, mustard or mayo, with or without pickles tomato and lettuce.
Ham sandwich.
Get that sorry bastard out of there.
The First Amendment is dead:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/media-barred-from-us-republican-convention-when-trump-will-receive-nomination
That leaves only one other Amendment with which to rule America.
The First Amendment is dead:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/media-barred-from-us-republican-convention-when-trump-will-receive-nomination
That leaves only one other Amendment with which to rule America.
Duckworth is also attractive because she has absolutely unassailable patriotic cred.
Which means that she would be portrayed 24/7 as 100 times worse than Benedict Arnold, the Rosenbergs or any other go-to traitor from US school textbooks.
Duckworth is also attractive because she has absolutely unassailable patriotic cred.
Which means that she would be portrayed 24/7 as 100 times worse than Benedict Arnold, the Rosenbergs or any other go-to traitor from US school textbooks.
Short term, she can do more good applying her prosecutorial skills in the Senate, particularly with a majority that gives her subpoena power.
I dispute this. Under Democratic caucus rules in the Senate, Harris is years/decades away from being in a position to make those decisions. The members who have put in 18 or 24 years so they can control a committee and its staff are not about to defer to her. And only the committee chair has actual subpoena power.
Elizabeth Warren will have the same problem. No one is going to step aside and let her run the banking committee despite her obvious expertise.
Short term, she can do more good applying her prosecutorial skills in the Senate, particularly with a majority that gives her subpoena power.
I dispute this. Under Democratic caucus rules in the Senate, Harris is years/decades away from being in a position to make those decisions. The members who have put in 18 or 24 years so they can control a committee and its staff are not about to defer to her. And only the committee chair has actual subpoena power.
Elizabeth Warren will have the same problem. No one is going to step aside and let her run the banking committee despite her obvious expertise.
As for Duckworth’s unassailable patriotic cred, you’d think so, but after the swift boating debacle nothing would surprise me. Her legs are pretty in your face, though, so there’s that.
As for Duckworth’s unassailable patriotic cred, you’d think so, but after the swift boating debacle nothing would surprise me. Her legs are pretty in your face, though, so there’s that.
Oh sure, everyone says “CA is safe for D’s!”. But “top-two” primaries and the example of Ahnold say that perhaps not as safe as assumed.
What we actually see, in our top-two primaries is either one candidate from each party or two Democrats. The chances of two Republicans emerging from a statewide primary are essentially nil. And head-to-head, there’s no way a Republican beats a Democrat here.
Ahnold was a special case. He won office the first time in an election where the Democratic governor was being recalled after gross dishonesty. Which rather tainted the Democratic candidate. And, with over 100 names on the ballot, name recognition was critical. Other than him, however, it’s been decades since a Republican won a statewide election.
So, for the foreseeable future, yeah, California is exactly that safe.
Oh sure, everyone says “CA is safe for D’s!”. But “top-two” primaries and the example of Ahnold say that perhaps not as safe as assumed.
What we actually see, in our top-two primaries is either one candidate from each party or two Democrats. The chances of two Republicans emerging from a statewide primary are essentially nil. And head-to-head, there’s no way a Republican beats a Democrat here.
Ahnold was a special case. He won office the first time in an election where the Democratic governor was being recalled after gross dishonesty. Which rather tainted the Democratic candidate. And, with over 100 names on the ballot, name recognition was critical. Other than him, however, it’s been decades since a Republican won a statewide election.
So, for the foreseeable future, yeah, California is exactly that safe.
McGovern’s patriotism was unassailable and successfully assailed by the conservative movement, all of whom expressed various anal complaints, again successfully, to their local draft boards.
Duckworth could waggle her stumps at the republican electorate and most of them would use it as hilarious reason to defund and deregulate the ADA, the scum.
Michael Cain is of course correct about the reality of the Congressional situation.
McGovern’s patriotism was unassailable and successfully assailed by the conservative movement, all of whom expressed various anal complaints, again successfully, to their local draft boards.
Duckworth could waggle her stumps at the republican electorate and most of them would use it as hilarious reason to defund and deregulate the ADA, the scum.
Michael Cain is of course correct about the reality of the Congressional situation.
after the swift boating debacle nothing would surprise me.
See also Max Cleland – both legs and half an arm. Also, Silver and Bronze Star medals, for conspicuous valor.
So, no guarantees. (R)’s appear to inhabit a world where traditional virtues are respected when useful, otherwise not.
Not just lacking in scruples, but apparently unaware that such a thing exists, or has any value.
In any case, I’m not that invested in the whole VPOTUS inside baseball thing.
Ham sandwich.
after the swift boating debacle nothing would surprise me.
See also Max Cleland – both legs and half an arm. Also, Silver and Bronze Star medals, for conspicuous valor.
So, no guarantees. (R)’s appear to inhabit a world where traditional virtues are respected when useful, otherwise not.
Not just lacking in scruples, but apparently unaware that such a thing exists, or has any value.
In any case, I’m not that invested in the whole VPOTUS inside baseball thing.
Ham sandwich.
A view from the front lines on forcing school reopening.
https://washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/01/schools-reopening-coronavirus-arizona-superintendent/
Unfortunately for this school superintendent, he’s in a state (Arizona) with a nutcase governor.
A view from the front lines on forcing school reopening.
https://washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/01/schools-reopening-coronavirus-arizona-superintendent/
Unfortunately for this school superintendent, he’s in a state (Arizona) with a nutcase governor.
The First Amendment is dead:
i’m sure some enterprising intern will find a way to turn on his/her iPhone during some of the fun parts.
The First Amendment is dead:
i’m sure some enterprising intern will find a way to turn on his/her iPhone during some of the fun parts.
Houston, we have a ….. glug .. problem:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/2/1964946/-In-Houston-new-flood-control-projects-are-being-called-social-engineering-for-helping-the-poor
The Lieutenant Governor of Texas is advising the poorer sections of Houston to do the backstroke and drown so that the tonier parts of town can get their taxes lowered AND spent only on keeping flood waters and backed-up sewage out of the latters’ swimming pools.
It’s not only Houston. This goes on all over the country in urban centers.
Houston, we have a ….. glug .. problem:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/2/1964946/-In-Houston-new-flood-control-projects-are-being-called-social-engineering-for-helping-the-poor
The Lieutenant Governor of Texas is advising the poorer sections of Houston to do the backstroke and drown so that the tonier parts of town can get their taxes lowered AND spent only on keeping flood waters and backed-up sewage out of the latters’ swimming pools.
It’s not only Houston. This goes on all over the country in urban centers.
The subsidized flood insurance chickens coming home to roost.
The subsidized flood insurance chickens coming home to roost.
Convergence culture, or lack of culture, or something… looks like BoJo is trying to follow Orange Julius’ lead to find his own Mouthpiece of Sauron:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/02/no-10-criticised-over-drive-to-recruit-white-house-style-spokesperson
Convergence culture, or lack of culture, or something… looks like BoJo is trying to follow Orange Julius’ lead to find his own Mouthpiece of Sauron:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/02/no-10-criticised-over-drive-to-recruit-white-house-style-spokesperson
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/01/trump-and-kushner-must-be-prosecuted-for-crimes-against-humanity/
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/08/01/trump-and-kushner-must-be-prosecuted-for-crimes-against-humanity/
The First Amendment is dead:
Haha, just kidding !
My suggestion: don’t cover it. We all know how the vote is going to turn out, we probably know who is going to speak, we definitely know what they are all going to say.
Skip it and cover something newsworthy.
The First Amendment is dead:
Haha, just kidding !
My suggestion: don’t cover it. We all know how the vote is going to turn out, we probably know who is going to speak, we definitely know what they are all going to say.
Skip it and cover something newsworthy.
Isn’t that the whole point of saying that no journalists will be admitted? To have an excuse already in place for not getting any airtime. The whole Trump campaign seems laser focused on preemptive excuses.
Isn’t that the whole point of saying that no journalists will be admitted? To have an excuse already in place for not getting any airtime. The whole Trump campaign seems laser focused on preemptive excuses.
The First Amendment is dead:
https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-days-away-moving-against-tiktok-pompeo-3021229
I guess they have had enough of the Chinese, umm, no, come, their fellow nigger Americans:
https://www.vogue.com/article/is-sarah-cooper-the-reason-donald-trump-wants-to-ban-tik-tok
Biden should name Sarah Cooper his Press Secretary.
During the White House press conferences/firing squads, she could ventriloquize her answers to FOX News, and Breitbart, and OANN reporters in Trump’s odd, 12-year-old sadistic, malign, subhuman pure republican voice and then shoot them in their heads.
The Second Amendment is alive and waiting to be made fully instrumental in a stolen American Presidential election.
Thank you, Republicans, for arming us.
You fucking idiots.
The First Amendment is dead:
https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-days-away-moving-against-tiktok-pompeo-3021229
I guess they have had enough of the Chinese, umm, no, come, their fellow nigger Americans:
https://www.vogue.com/article/is-sarah-cooper-the-reason-donald-trump-wants-to-ban-tik-tok
Biden should name Sarah Cooper his Press Secretary.
During the White House press conferences/firing squads, she could ventriloquize her answers to FOX News, and Breitbart, and OANN reporters in Trump’s odd, 12-year-old sadistic, malign, subhuman pure republican voice and then shoot them in their heads.
The Second Amendment is alive and waiting to be made fully instrumental in a stolen American Presidential election.
Thank you, Republicans, for arming us.
You fucking idiots.
These meager Republican subhuman crowds still produce the litter, bad breath, animal body odor, chemical pollution, and fatal Covid-19 infections of liberal crowds a million times their size:
https://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/62BE0CAC-7C5F-4ACF-9351-2160292BC683.jpeg
The Chinese can hardly keep up.
These meager Republican subhuman crowds still produce the litter, bad breath, animal body odor, chemical pollution, and fatal Covid-19 infections of liberal crowds a million times their size:
https://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/62BE0CAC-7C5F-4ACF-9351-2160292BC683.jpeg
The Chinese can hardly keep up.
This is to the Republican Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTyUkGonul
This is to the Republican Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTyUkGonul
uh, one two three:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTyUkGonuI&list=RDMMxaTyUkGonuI&start_radio=1
uh, one two three:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTyUkGonuI&list=RDMMxaTyUkGonuI&start_radio=1
These meager Republican … crowds
Their Photoshop skills are… not good.
Also, I’ve elided the ‘subhuman’. No need for that.
These meager Republican … crowds
Their Photoshop skills are… not good.
Also, I’ve elided the ‘subhuman’. No need for that.
There was a demonstration by the COVID-deniers in Berlin (Germany) yesterday. Police estimates are that there were about 20000* participants. The instigators** said that they expected half a million and afterwards claimed that there were actually a million or more present. Outright Trumpian.
* 20K, I did not drop a zero there
**deliberate choice of word
There was a demonstration by the COVID-deniers in Berlin (Germany) yesterday. Police estimates are that there were about 20000* participants. The instigators** said that they expected half a million and afterwards claimed that there were actually a million or more present. Outright Trumpian.
* 20K, I did not drop a zero there
**deliberate choice of word
No need for that
Quite right. They demean themselves, we don’t need to join them.
No need for that
Quite right. They demean themselves, we don’t need to join them.
Yesterday the Nevada legislature approved a bill to distribute ballots to all registered voters by mail in November. The governor is expected to sign it. Trump’s tweet included “See you in Court!” That’s seven of the 13 western states doing ballot distribution almost exclusively by mail this year. Eight if you count Arizona at their normal 80%. Nine if you count Montana at 70%.
Yesterday the Nevada legislature approved a bill to distribute ballots to all registered voters by mail in November. The governor is expected to sign it. Trump’s tweet included “See you in Court!” That’s seven of the 13 western states doing ballot distribution almost exclusively by mail this year. Eight if you count Arizona at their normal 80%. Nine if you count Montana at 70%.
The western US — ahead to the curve again! 😉
The western US — ahead to the curve again! 😉
Trump is dismantling the Post Office. I certainly hope that votes of those voting by mail are actually counted.
Trump is dismantling the Post Office. I certainly hope that votes of those voting by mail are actually counted.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/new-committee-to-save-the-world/
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/new-committee-to-save-the-world/
It appears that LOTS of Republicans out in the states are really, really upset at the negative impact Trump’s tweets are having on their efforts to encourage absentee voting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-race-to-promote-mail-voting-as-trumps-attacks-discourage-his-own-supporters-from-embracing-the-practice/2020/08/03/9dd1d988-d1d9-11ea-9038-af089b63ac21_story.html
It appears that he may succeed in seriously damaging down-ballot Republican candidates as well.
It appears that LOTS of Republicans out in the states are really, really upset at the negative impact Trump’s tweets are having on their efforts to encourage absentee voting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-race-to-promote-mail-voting-as-trumps-attacks-discourage-his-own-supporters-from-embracing-the-practice/2020/08/03/9dd1d988-d1d9-11ea-9038-af089b63ac21_story.html
It appears that he may succeed in seriously damaging down-ballot Republican candidates as well.
It’s hard to imagine Trump doing something that would be self-defeating. *tries to keep a straight face*
It’s hard to imagine Trump doing something that would be self-defeating. *tries to keep a straight face*
I’m sure he doesn’t believe in “self-defeating.” After all, in the past he’s always gotten bailed out — by Dad, by Vlad, by whomever. Why should he expect this time to suddenly be different?
I’m sure he doesn’t believe in “self-defeating.” After all, in the past he’s always gotten bailed out — by Dad, by Vlad, by whomever. Why should he expect this time to suddenly be different?
These republicans are only TWO “reallys” into being upset, at this late moment in this dumpster fire of a republic?
Wake me when these “republicans” get to two dozen reallys, where the rest of us are and have been, and are calling on their local militia assholes to turn their vaunted Second Amendment solutions against all things federal trump.
The White House is now going full anti-semite on BLM, saying it’s an international Soros Jewish conspiracy against Trump.
Time for postal workers to go fully postal.
All of the pure fascist EVIL the conservative movement has been ginning up for decades against the enemy Others into a thick bolus of hate is about to be expectorated all over America from the former’s savage, ruthless, violent throats, and enabled by its tax-hating, immigrant-hating, regulation-hating dupes.
Only our puny civilized imaginations limit what WE can dimly foretell is coming.
Trump and his fascists have limitless imaginations regarding their plans for destroying all civilized governance.
The fact that trump and his tea party QAnon right wing, crypto-Christian scum are now deliberately alienating even the hardcore conservatives tells me something much more catastrophic is afoot.
American crypto-Christianity is mere camouflage for something much more sinister and deadly.
They love death by pandemic.
The Russian investigation barely scratched the surface of what underlies all of this.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man, making it up as he scats along.
Back to QAnon: Why has no one, our intelligence forces, our vast resources of investigative media, been able to identify the source of this EVIL, and kill it or them?
These republicans are only TWO “reallys” into being upset, at this late moment in this dumpster fire of a republic?
Wake me when these “republicans” get to two dozen reallys, where the rest of us are and have been, and are calling on their local militia assholes to turn their vaunted Second Amendment solutions against all things federal trump.
The White House is now going full anti-semite on BLM, saying it’s an international Soros Jewish conspiracy against Trump.
Time for postal workers to go fully postal.
All of the pure fascist EVIL the conservative movement has been ginning up for decades against the enemy Others into a thick bolus of hate is about to be expectorated all over America from the former’s savage, ruthless, violent throats, and enabled by its tax-hating, immigrant-hating, regulation-hating dupes.
Only our puny civilized imaginations limit what WE can dimly foretell is coming.
Trump and his fascists have limitless imaginations regarding their plans for destroying all civilized governance.
The fact that trump and his tea party QAnon right wing, crypto-Christian scum are now deliberately alienating even the hardcore conservatives tells me something much more catastrophic is afoot.
American crypto-Christianity is mere camouflage for something much more sinister and deadly.
They love death by pandemic.
The Russian investigation barely scratched the surface of what underlies all of this.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man, making it up as he scats along.
Back to QAnon: Why has no one, our intelligence forces, our vast resources of investigative media, been able to identify the source of this EVIL, and kill it or them?
These republicans are only TWO “reallys” into being upset, at this late moment in this dumpster fire of a republic?
Sloth on my part, I’m afraid. It’s just too much trouble to type more than two.
The White House is now going full anti-semite on BLM, saying it’s an international Soros Jewish conspiracy against Trump.
Does that mean Kushner (and Ivanka) is taking responsibility for it? Just wondering.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man, making it up as he scats along.
Except jazz has artistic merit. Trump? Not so’s you would notice.
These republicans are only TWO “reallys” into being upset, at this late moment in this dumpster fire of a republic?
Sloth on my part, I’m afraid. It’s just too much trouble to type more than two.
The White House is now going full anti-semite on BLM, saying it’s an international Soros Jewish conspiracy against Trump.
Does that mean Kushner (and Ivanka) is taking responsibility for it? Just wondering.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man, making it up as he scats along.
Except jazz has artistic merit. Trump? Not so’s you would notice.
QAnon: Why has no one, our intelligence forces, our vast resources of investigative media, been able to identify the source of this EVIL
I wondered that myself. But perhaps the intelligence folks have. Maybe even put it in Trump’s Daily Brief (not that he reads it). But why would Trump allow them to do anything about it?
QAnon: Why has no one, our intelligence forces, our vast resources of investigative media, been able to identify the source of this EVIL
I wondered that myself. But perhaps the intelligence folks have. Maybe even put it in Trump’s Daily Brief (not that he reads it). But why would Trump allow them to do anything about it?
What if trump’s alienation of down-ballot conservatives is not self-defeating behavior, but part of the larger plan.
Cue our conservative friends’ musings that Trump is a Clinton put-up job from the get go. A long-fused bomb placed under the Nazi republican table.
Aye, what a crafty one she is.
Is she QAnon?
What if trump’s alienation of down-ballot conservatives is not self-defeating behavior, but part of the larger plan.
Cue our conservative friends’ musings that Trump is a Clinton put-up job from the get go. A long-fused bomb placed under the Nazi republican table.
Aye, what a crafty one she is.
Is she QAnon?
Pizzagate was a Clinton setup to make crazy people look crazy. They took the bait. I like it. The real conspiracy behind the conspiracy! So many layers…
Pizzagate was a Clinton setup to make crazy people look crazy. They took the bait. I like it. The real conspiracy behind the conspiracy! So many layers…
I don’t think they can dismantle things far enough for the normal arrangement in the western states to fail — almost no one has to request a mail ballot and there’s usually at least one alternate return method. Eg, in my state, most ballots are returned by depositing them at one of the collection locations operated by the counties.
That said, I was already worried about the states that are simply encouraging the use of an existing absentee system where the ballot has to be requested, then sent, then returned, all by mail. Those are already at risk of being overwhelmed, and if there’s a couple of extra days of delay each time something goes through the mail, well, it could be really bad.
I don’t think they can dismantle things far enough for the normal arrangement in the western states to fail — almost no one has to request a mail ballot and there’s usually at least one alternate return method. Eg, in my state, most ballots are returned by depositing them at one of the collection locations operated by the counties.
That said, I was already worried about the states that are simply encouraging the use of an existing absentee system where the ballot has to be requested, then sent, then returned, all by mail. Those are already at risk of being overwhelmed, and if there’s a couple of extra days of delay each time something goes through the mail, well, it could be really bad.
I was already worried about the states that are simply encouraging the use of an existing absentee system where the ballot has to be requested, then sent, then returned, all by mail.
That is, indeed, the critical weakness. Happily, a fair number of states managed, when running primaries during covid-19, to get the job done.
The ones which have made a mess of it have gotten most of the airtime — after all, disasters always get the headlines. And a general election can be a much bigger effort. Not to mention state funds running short. But we shouldn’t assume that the messes we have heard so much about are the norm.
I was already worried about the states that are simply encouraging the use of an existing absentee system where the ballot has to be requested, then sent, then returned, all by mail.
That is, indeed, the critical weakness. Happily, a fair number of states managed, when running primaries during covid-19, to get the job done.
The ones which have made a mess of it have gotten most of the airtime — after all, disasters always get the headlines. And a general election can be a much bigger effort. Not to mention state funds running short. But we shouldn’t assume that the messes we have heard so much about are the norm.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man
Trump takes a chorus. On soprano sax, no less.
C’mon, at least one of those notes was in the right key!
So he switches to tenor.
Still no joy.
Maybe trumpet?
back to the woodshed.
Unless of course Trump is just all-American jazz, man
Trump takes a chorus. On soprano sax, no less.
C’mon, at least one of those notes was in the right key!
So he switches to tenor.
Still no joy.
Maybe trumpet?
back to the woodshed.
The trumpet can derail the best of us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmsnehPa8G0
Trade it in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BhS_bOxqg
Putin should stick to playing the trump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Af_Ka0auw
The trumpet can derail the best of us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmsnehPa8G0
Trade it in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BhS_bOxqg
Putin should stick to playing the trump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Af_Ka0auw
Michael Cain, look. Colorado’s Tancredo is back, full QAnon, natch.
https://www.mediamatters.org/qanon-conspiracy-theory/qanon-candidate-lauren-boebert-touting-endorsement-tom-tancredo-white
Every chance he gets.
Michael Cain, look. Colorado’s Tancredo is back, full QAnon, natch.
https://www.mediamatters.org/qanon-conspiracy-theory/qanon-candidate-lauren-boebert-touting-endorsement-tom-tancredo-white
Every chance he gets.
Watch out for masked Democrats?
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/foxs-jeanine-pirro-point-wearing-masks-dehumanize-and-frighten-people
She should wear a mask out of sheer embarrassment. Maybe a face transplant. Maybe a face plant.
Here’s what happens to real Judges appointed by Democrats:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/judge-salas-breaks-silence-in-heartbreaking-video-tribute-after-sons-shooting-death/ar-BB17vnKw
The conservative movement murders them and their children.
The Civil War is already underway.
Watch out for masked Democrats?
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/foxs-jeanine-pirro-point-wearing-masks-dehumanize-and-frighten-people
She should wear a mask out of sheer embarrassment. Maybe a face transplant. Maybe a face plant.
Here’s what happens to real Judges appointed by Democrats:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/judge-salas-breaks-silence-in-heartbreaking-video-tribute-after-sons-shooting-death/ar-BB17vnKw
The conservative movement murders them and their children.
The Civil War is already underway.
There’s not whit of difference between Libertarians* and Republicans in the mortal danger of their grifts to America:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/ron-paul-uses-fox-appearance-push-conspiracy-theory-about-covid-19-vaccine-and
What is it about the medical field that attracts so many insane, paranoid, dangerous conspiratorial daft punks.
I realize Charles is the keeper of the ledger that separates real libertarians from the fake ones.
I wonder though if he has ever found a real one besides himself.
Calling Dr. Mengele, Dr. NotsoFine, Dr. Mengele.
There’s not whit of difference between Libertarians* and Republicans in the mortal danger of their grifts to America:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/ron-paul-uses-fox-appearance-push-conspiracy-theory-about-covid-19-vaccine-and
What is it about the medical field that attracts so many insane, paranoid, dangerous conspiratorial daft punks.
I realize Charles is the keeper of the ledger that separates real libertarians from the fake ones.
I wonder though if he has ever found a real one besides himself.
Calling Dr. Mengele, Dr. NotsoFine, Dr. Mengele.
Texas is on the cutting edge of reining in healthcare cost:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/how-a-175-covid-19-test-led-to-2479-in-charges
Texas is on the cutting edge of reining in healthcare cost:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/how-a-175-covid-19-test-led-to-2479-in-charges
Defund the Navy Seals. But be careful. They will f*cking kill you:
https://juanitajean.com/dudes-no/
Defund the Navy Seals. But be careful. They will f*cking kill you:
https://juanitajean.com/dudes-no/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/manhattan-da-investigating-trump-for-more-than-hush-money-payments-idUSKCN24Z26F
The guy’s crooked. Something has to stick sooner or later.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/manhattan-da-investigating-trump-for-more-than-hush-money-payments-idUSKCN24Z26F
The guy’s crooked. Something has to stick sooner or later.
IF trump loses the election, and IF he relinquishes the Presidency without concerted violence by his dupes, I’m trying to game what he could do between election day and Biden’s Inauguration to sabotage governance by the Democratic Party and throw America into immediate and emergency financial peril:
These are just the big ones:
1. Order the Treasury Department to default on the outstanding debt of the United States. He’d have to fire Mnuchin to do it, I expect, but what else is new? There are plenty of Trump crazies inside Treasury willing to do the deed. Congressional approval? Details, details, as norms are forever vanquished in republican pigfucker America.
2. Order the Federal Reserve to crater the money supply and steeply invert the yield curve to halt economic activity. That succubus witch the Republicans are about to confirm in the Senate to Fed Gov post would be happy to take over the reins for a two months and carry out Trump’s sexy demonology. She’s been hoarding his sperm for just such an occasion.
3. Order the Treasury and the Fed Reserve to unload all of the corporate bonds they have stowed away for safekeeping (and stocks too, if my overactive imagination has sussed that out accurately) thus destroying all bids for the paper out of the sheer avalanche of “supply side” overkill.
Federal reserve an independent agency, you say? It is whatever evil conservatism compels it to be.
Also halt or at least slow walk all processing of mortgage paperwork the government does to backup those markets.
4. He will rage daily via Twitter and the fascist media as markets crater and liquidity goes tits up that the markets know ALL about how Biden is going to destroy the country’s economy and bankrupt everyone, and are reacting accordingly.
Kudlow will nod sagely. The fascist conservative media will fan the flames of total financial panic.
There are enough scum on Wall Street and among the big money thugs that would go along to subvert governance by Biden and make it difficult to raise, or even collect, their taxes.
5. Multiple war flashpoints in the world erupting … in his favor.
Measuring EVIL ahead of time, so we have the coffins ready. These vampires will be buried with their conservative hate erections fully erect.
This leaves out much that is already happening vis a vis the Post Office, furloughing or laying off much of the IRA to halt tax collection, refusing all transition communications and meetings with Biden’s advance transition team and destroying all records across every agency government-wide compiled over the last four years, and whatever high profile Democrats William Barr is ordered to perp walk from November into February, including maybe even Biden.
IF trump loses the election, and IF he relinquishes the Presidency without concerted violence by his dupes, I’m trying to game what he could do between election day and Biden’s Inauguration to sabotage governance by the Democratic Party and throw America into immediate and emergency financial peril:
These are just the big ones:
1. Order the Treasury Department to default on the outstanding debt of the United States. He’d have to fire Mnuchin to do it, I expect, but what else is new? There are plenty of Trump crazies inside Treasury willing to do the deed. Congressional approval? Details, details, as norms are forever vanquished in republican pigfucker America.
2. Order the Federal Reserve to crater the money supply and steeply invert the yield curve to halt economic activity. That succubus witch the Republicans are about to confirm in the Senate to Fed Gov post would be happy to take over the reins for a two months and carry out Trump’s sexy demonology. She’s been hoarding his sperm for just such an occasion.
3. Order the Treasury and the Fed Reserve to unload all of the corporate bonds they have stowed away for safekeeping (and stocks too, if my overactive imagination has sussed that out accurately) thus destroying all bids for the paper out of the sheer avalanche of “supply side” overkill.
Federal reserve an independent agency, you say? It is whatever evil conservatism compels it to be.
Also halt or at least slow walk all processing of mortgage paperwork the government does to backup those markets.
4. He will rage daily via Twitter and the fascist media as markets crater and liquidity goes tits up that the markets know ALL about how Biden is going to destroy the country’s economy and bankrupt everyone, and are reacting accordingly.
Kudlow will nod sagely. The fascist conservative media will fan the flames of total financial panic.
There are enough scum on Wall Street and among the big money thugs that would go along to subvert governance by Biden and make it difficult to raise, or even collect, their taxes.
5. Multiple war flashpoints in the world erupting … in his favor.
Measuring EVIL ahead of time, so we have the coffins ready. These vampires will be buried with their conservative hate erections fully erect.
This leaves out much that is already happening vis a vis the Post Office, furloughing or laying off much of the IRA to halt tax collection, refusing all transition communications and meetings with Biden’s advance transition team and destroying all records across every agency government-wide compiled over the last four years, and whatever high profile Democrats William Barr is ordered to perp walk from November into February, including maybe even Biden.
Remember this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/02/georgia-governor-candidate-aims-gun-at-teenager-in-campaign-ad-get-over-it-he-tells-critics/
We were warned that he was killer, probably of children, by HIM:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/260-employees-in-georgia-s-largest-school-district-test-positive-for-covid-19-or-are-exposed/ar-BB17vTID
Again, elections are all very good in a civilized country.
Someone run out and find me a civilized country.
Because this piece of shit country isn’t.
Remember this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/02/georgia-governor-candidate-aims-gun-at-teenager-in-campaign-ad-get-over-it-he-tells-critics/
We were warned that he was killer, probably of children, by HIM:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/260-employees-in-georgia-s-largest-school-district-test-positive-for-covid-19-or-are-exposed/ar-BB17vTID
Again, elections are all very good in a civilized country.
Someone run out and find me a civilized country.
Because this piece of shit country isn’t.
Pure speculation, but I actually think Rump would become a lump if he were to lose the election. He would lose interest and be sullen, terse, and withdrawn. Low energy!
Pure speculation, but I actually think Rump would become a lump if he were to lose the election. He would lose interest and be sullen, terse, and withdrawn. Low energy!
Pure speculation, but I actually think Rump would become a lump if he were to lose the election.
I expect he’ll file a bunch of law suits. Because that’s what he’s accustomed to doing when he loses. But beyond that, any major nastiness (beyond name-calling) will likely be from the folks who have been grifting off his position, and want to cover themselves.
Pure speculation, but I actually think Rump would become a lump if he were to lose the election.
I expect he’ll file a bunch of law suits. Because that’s what he’s accustomed to doing when he loses. But beyond that, any major nastiness (beyond name-calling) will likely be from the folks who have been grifting off his position, and want to cover themselves.
You mean, like Seinfeld’s Kramer?
You CAN’T fire me. I don’t even work here.
Now, Hitler, as the Allied forces closed in, became sullen, terse, and withdrawn and doubled down on the orders to murder the Jews.
The Confederate Army in retreat burned the crops and slayed the livestock.
The Russian Army raped coming and going.
Hyenas and jackals rip a haunch off the carcass and head into the underbrush when the lions show up.
But, theories abound.
I hope I’m wrong in all particulars.
Trump being wheeled out of the White House, after refusing to concede or attend the Inauguration, but in a catatonic funk with Jared carrying his drool cup and a bedpan would be satisfying, as would the mass suicides of his followers, and his thug rat fuckers going overboard after stuffing taxpayer cash accounts and the White House silver, doorknobs, artwork, and knickknacks down their pants.
You mean, like Seinfeld’s Kramer?
You CAN’T fire me. I don’t even work here.
Now, Hitler, as the Allied forces closed in, became sullen, terse, and withdrawn and doubled down on the orders to murder the Jews.
The Confederate Army in retreat burned the crops and slayed the livestock.
The Russian Army raped coming and going.
Hyenas and jackals rip a haunch off the carcass and head into the underbrush when the lions show up.
But, theories abound.
I hope I’m wrong in all particulars.
Trump being wheeled out of the White House, after refusing to concede or attend the Inauguration, but in a catatonic funk with Jared carrying his drool cup and a bedpan would be satisfying, as would the mass suicides of his followers, and his thug rat fuckers going overboard after stuffing taxpayer cash accounts and the White House silver, doorknobs, artwork, and knickknacks down their pants.
Yes, wj, always remember what Roy Cohn would do, and what trump has always done.
Adjudicate until everyone is either dead or gives up out of sheer exasperation.
Biden as the legal President in exile should completely defund and shut down the entire Federal judiciary, so there is nowhere for trump to plead is case.
Make the country utterly ungovernable and stalemated by the Republican Party. Mass-disobey all of their rules and laws.
If they send a dog catcher to take your dog into custody, shoot your dog.
Yes, wj, always remember what Roy Cohn would do, and what trump has always done.
Adjudicate until everyone is either dead or gives up out of sheer exasperation.
Biden as the legal President in exile should completely defund and shut down the entire Federal judiciary, so there is nowhere for trump to plead is case.
Make the country utterly ungovernable and stalemated by the Republican Party. Mass-disobey all of their rules and laws.
If they send a dog catcher to take your dog into custody, shoot your dog.
I’ll admit, because we are by and large nice people, that shooting our pets might be our Achilles heel.
Santorum, after all thought so highly of our kindness to the creatures that he predicted we would marry them.
Time wounds all heels, but why wait?
I’ll admit, because we are by and large nice people, that shooting our pets might be our Achilles heel.
Santorum, after all thought so highly of our kindness to the creatures that he predicted we would marry them.
Time wounds all heels, but why wait?
Lay down all of the markers and collect ruthlessly in full:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/politics-in-an-iterated-game
Lay down all of the markers and collect ruthlessly in full:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/politics-in-an-iterated-game
She needs to be socially tracked, branded, marked with a scarlet letter, shunned, and spat on:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/foxs-jeanine-pirro-i-dont-want-vaccine-coronavirus
If she passes this deadly virus on to another human being, she will end up exactly the same way as a black person pulling gun on a cop does.
Her life does not matter.
She needs to be socially tracked, branded, marked with a scarlet letter, shunned, and spat on:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/foxs-jeanine-pirro-i-dont-want-vaccine-coronavirus
If she passes this deadly virus on to another human being, she will end up exactly the same way as a black person pulling gun on a cop does.
Her life does not matter.
I feel sorry for this person:
https://bgr.com/2020/08/03/coronavirus-update-deborah-birx-white-house-task-force-coordinator-criticized-by-trump/
I feel sorry for this person:
https://bgr.com/2020/08/03/coronavirus-update-deborah-birx-white-house-task-force-coordinator-criticized-by-trump/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/primary-counts-delayed-pandemic-novemeber-election
Flood the zone with shit and then wait it out might be the strategy.
It COULD take four more years to count the vote, if you do it the way Abbott counted out change to Costello.
It’s Monday still, so I must be done already.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/primary-counts-delayed-pandemic-novemeber-election
Flood the zone with shit and then wait it out might be the strategy.
It COULD take four more years to count the vote, if you do it the way Abbott counted out change to Costello.
It’s Monday still, so I must be done already.
If you remember the Alamo, like the 1960s, then you must not have been there.
If you remember the Alamo, like the 1960s, then you must not have been there.
It appears that the Trump Virus has spread from DHS to the Secret Service.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-the-mall-secret-service-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/2020/08/03/be4dfa8c-d4f1-11ea-9c3b-dfc394c03988_story.html
Do these people not even watch the news??? Do their supervisors not do so — and brief their men accordingly on appropriate behavior? I mean, come on, two 20 year old women with babies are a security threat warranting drawn guns? Handcuffs, but no Miranda rights?
I suppose we should be glad that, while they claimed not to have business cards, they do seem to have provided names and vadge numbers. Eventually.
It appears that the Trump Virus has spread from DHS to the Secret Service.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-the-mall-secret-service-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/2020/08/03/be4dfa8c-d4f1-11ea-9c3b-dfc394c03988_story.html
Do these people not even watch the news??? Do their supervisors not do so — and brief their men accordingly on appropriate behavior? I mean, come on, two 20 year old women with babies are a security threat warranting drawn guns? Handcuffs, but no Miranda rights?
I suppose we should be glad that, while they claimed not to have business cards, they do seem to have provided names and vadge numbers. Eventually.
“Vadge” numbers? Which bathrooms do they use?
Is numbering them a new thing?
Black folks need to carry AR-15s with big clips all the time.
Here’s another version outside the paywall.
https://hagerstownairport.org/2020/08/03/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-play-at-the-national-mall-secret-service-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/
Biden will have much to do on his first day as President from his basement since the White House won’t be available for some time, but he should call these two into his basement, make them under threat of violence relinquish their badges and arms, and remand them to Black Lives Matter militias.
We’ll have John Yoo check in with them, if he can find any trace, AND if he can find his way back.
“Vadge” numbers? Which bathrooms do they use?
Is numbering them a new thing?
Black folks need to carry AR-15s with big clips all the time.
Here’s another version outside the paywall.
https://hagerstownairport.org/2020/08/03/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-play-at-the-national-mall-secret-service-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/
Biden will have much to do on his first day as President from his basement since the White House won’t be available for some time, but he should call these two into his basement, make them under threat of violence relinquish their badges and arms, and remand them to Black Lives Matter militias.
We’ll have John Yoo check in with them, if he can find any trace, AND if he can find his way back.
Here’s another version outside the paywall.
Glad to have that. But for future reference, if you clear cookies (which I suspect most here know how to do), the WaPo paywall opens right up.
Here’s another version outside the paywall.
Glad to have that. But for future reference, if you clear cookies (which I suspect most here know how to do), the WaPo paywall opens right up.
I know. I was momentarily lazier than usual. Thanks.
I know. I was momentarily lazier than usual. Thanks.
In 2016, Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote, to Trump’s 46.1%. That is not a commanding victory.
So because of the Post Office debacle, if Trump “wins” in 2020, will you [russell] be touting the numbers in a similar way? The votes that weren’t counted because they were “late” [postmark being irrelevant because delivery is key]?
Y’know, you floor me with your intelligence, artistic acumen, but also missing a lot. Not that you’re not an oracle, because you are.
In 2016, Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote, to Trump’s 46.1%. That is not a commanding victory.
So because of the Post Office debacle, if Trump “wins” in 2020, will you [russell] be touting the numbers in a similar way? The votes that weren’t counted because they were “late” [postmark being irrelevant because delivery is key]?
Y’know, you floor me with your intelligence, artistic acumen, but also missing a lot. Not that you’re not an oracle, because you are.
Just out of interest: since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening? How long did it take for example in the times of Washington (pre-Telegraph) or Lincoln (with telegraph but likely not everywhere yet)?
Just out of interest: since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening? How long did it take for example in the times of Washington (pre-Telegraph) or Lincoln (with telegraph but likely not everywhere yet)?
let’s see what Gallup says about Republican support for this actual tyrant… oh, suhprize, still at 91%.
let’s see what Gallup says about Republican support for this actual tyrant… oh, suhprize, still at 91%.
So because of the Post Office debacle, …
Let’s see, what point was I making?
A hell of a lot of people support Donald Trump. I find that disturbing. If you cut Trump’s popular vote in half, I would find it disturbing.
It tells me that we’re not a nation of people who were somehow momentarily misled by a program of Russian propaganda. It tells me that we’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who are happy to be led over the cliff by an obvious charlatan. We’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who find the toxic mendacious bile he spews to be just what the doctor ordered.
If Trump wins or loses in 2020, that will still be so. Which makes me pessimistic about the future of the nation.
That’s my point.
We keep fighting the same damned battles over and over again. We make some progress, we take a couple of steps back. The trend is generally positive in some ways, but frankly, not in others.
Maybe this – our current state of freaking deadlock, of stalemate between different understandings of what the country is about – is as good as we are gonna get. Maybe it’s as good as we’ve ever been.
Y’know, you floor me with your intelligence, artistic acumen, but also missing a lot.
We all try to do our best. Fail better, is my motto.
So because of the Post Office debacle, …
Let’s see, what point was I making?
A hell of a lot of people support Donald Trump. I find that disturbing. If you cut Trump’s popular vote in half, I would find it disturbing.
It tells me that we’re not a nation of people who were somehow momentarily misled by a program of Russian propaganda. It tells me that we’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who are happy to be led over the cliff by an obvious charlatan. We’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who find the toxic mendacious bile he spews to be just what the doctor ordered.
If Trump wins or loses in 2020, that will still be so. Which makes me pessimistic about the future of the nation.
That’s my point.
We keep fighting the same damned battles over and over again. We make some progress, we take a couple of steps back. The trend is generally positive in some ways, but frankly, not in others.
Maybe this – our current state of freaking deadlock, of stalemate between different understandings of what the country is about – is as good as we are gonna get. Maybe it’s as good as we’ve ever been.
Y’know, you floor me with your intelligence, artistic acumen, but also missing a lot.
We all try to do our best. Fail better, is my motto.
let’s see what Gallup says about Republican support for this actual tyrant… oh, suhprize, still at 91%.
Depressing.
russell, you are right. I am sorry. My comment wasn’t constructive. Although I do think that the Russian interference campaign made the difference in the election, it was way too close, and there’s no excuse for that, even though I keep wishing for one.
let’s see what Gallup says about Republican support for this actual tyrant… oh, suhprize, still at 91%.
Depressing.
russell, you are right. I am sorry. My comment wasn’t constructive. Although I do think that the Russian interference campaign made the difference in the election, it was way too close, and there’s no excuse for that, even though I keep wishing for one.
no worries.
I’m trying to figure out WTF we can all do about the USPS issue. Call our Congresspeople? Volunteer mail delivery? What?
Several swing states do not count ballots that arrive late. A lot of people will be voting by mail, because virus.
Trump could actually win, with significantly less support than he had in 2016, because he FUBARed the USPS. Which, apparently, is in his power to do.
I’m not seeing a remedy, other than GOTV and utterly bury him beyond any chance of his gaming it.
Another four years of Trump, and this country will be FUBAR. And I mean, really FUBAR.
no worries.
I’m trying to figure out WTF we can all do about the USPS issue. Call our Congresspeople? Volunteer mail delivery? What?
Several swing states do not count ballots that arrive late. A lot of people will be voting by mail, because virus.
Trump could actually win, with significantly less support than he had in 2016, because he FUBARed the USPS. Which, apparently, is in his power to do.
I’m not seeing a remedy, other than GOTV and utterly bury him beyond any chance of his gaming it.
Another four years of Trump, and this country will be FUBAR. And I mean, really FUBAR.
I’m trying to figure out WTF we can all do about the USPS issue. Call our Congresspeople? Volunteer mail delivery? What?
I don’t know. This appeared today in The Washington Post.
I had long been a poll-watcher for the Democratic party, but this year decided to train to be a poll worker (election official). I worked at the polls in March for our first primary. I didn’t work at the primary in June – wasn’t called. They expected a light turnout, and didn’t want to risk poll workers getting sick, so made do with fewer people. I expect that I will be called to work in November, and I will probably put on a mask and do so, and vote in person as well.
The Virginia legislature (which recently turned blue) passed a law for no-excuse-necessary absentee voting, so that option is finally available to everyone. A lot of people are going to use it, but whether their votes will be counted is extremely uncertain.
It’s horrifying.
I’m trying to figure out WTF we can all do about the USPS issue. Call our Congresspeople? Volunteer mail delivery? What?
I don’t know. This appeared today in The Washington Post.
I had long been a poll-watcher for the Democratic party, but this year decided to train to be a poll worker (election official). I worked at the polls in March for our first primary. I didn’t work at the primary in June – wasn’t called. They expected a light turnout, and didn’t want to risk poll workers getting sick, so made do with fewer people. I expect that I will be called to work in November, and I will probably put on a mask and do so, and vote in person as well.
The Virginia legislature (which recently turned blue) passed a law for no-excuse-necessary absentee voting, so that option is finally available to everyone. A lot of people are going to use it, but whether their votes will be counted is extremely uncertain.
It’s horrifying.
since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening?
Don’t know the answer to your specific question, but the issue at hand is that we don’t elect the POTUS by popular vote. Each state gets a certain number of electors, and the electors vote.
Each state also gets to make its own rules about whether all of its electoral votes go to the popular vote winner in that state, or not.
Each state also gets to make its own rules about voting procedures, so if a state says ballots that arrive after election day are ignored, then they will be ignored, even though there is a month between election day and when the electors actually meet to vote.
I can’t think of another nominally self-governing country on the face of the earth with a more convoluted, inconsistent, and frankly non-democratic process for choosing a national leader. It’s insane.
since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening?
Don’t know the answer to your specific question, but the issue at hand is that we don’t elect the POTUS by popular vote. Each state gets a certain number of electors, and the electors vote.
Each state also gets to make its own rules about whether all of its electoral votes go to the popular vote winner in that state, or not.
Each state also gets to make its own rules about voting procedures, so if a state says ballots that arrive after election day are ignored, then they will be ignored, even though there is a month between election day and when the electors actually meet to vote.
I can’t think of another nominally self-governing country on the face of the earth with a more convoluted, inconsistent, and frankly non-democratic process for choosing a national leader. It’s insane.
but it’s in The Constitution, therefore it’s perfect. and anyone who thinks otherwise must be a America-hating liberal.
but it’s in The Constitution, therefore it’s perfect. and anyone who thinks otherwise must be a America-hating liberal.
yeah, because we’ve never, ever changed anything in the Constitution.
yeah, because we’ve never, ever changed anything in the Constitution.
Trump could actually win, with significantly less support than he had in 2016, because he FUBARed the USPS.
In some of the swing states, the local Republicans are already trying to tell Trump that screwing up mail ballot delivery is going to cost him more votes than it will cost Biden. In Arizona, the oldsters were the first to jump on the permanent mail ballot list. The Democratic Party there has only recently made progress in getting the young and minorities to take advantage of it. There’s at least sketchy statistical evidence that in Colorado in 2014, the first federal election cycle we had vote by mail, VBM increased Republican turnout more than it increased Democratic turnout.
Trump could actually win, with significantly less support than he had in 2016, because he FUBARed the USPS.
In some of the swing states, the local Republicans are already trying to tell Trump that screwing up mail ballot delivery is going to cost him more votes than it will cost Biden. In Arizona, the oldsters were the first to jump on the permanent mail ballot list. The Democratic Party there has only recently made progress in getting the young and minorities to take advantage of it. There’s at least sketchy statistical evidence that in Colorado in 2014, the first federal election cycle we had vote by mail, VBM increased Republican turnout more than it increased Democratic turnout.
since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening?
A) Since the wide-spread adoption of the properly-maligned lever voting machines. Suddenly, ballots didn’t have to be counted. A couple of precinct workers copied the numbers off the counters in the back of the machine, added them up, and sent them in to the city/county officials. Another round of adding there, and phone them in to the state officials. Suddenly, by 2:00 am or so, everything but the absentee ballots had been totaled up.
B) Since the announcement of partial results. Once that was happening, it was inevitable that the statisticians would start building predictive models. Hence the early pronouncements of the form, “With 5% of precincts reporting, ABC calls the state of Texas for George W. Bush.” I enjoy some of the models. California has a strong pattern that late mail-in votes skew very heavily Democratic. So much so, and so reliably, that in 2018, one of the Republican candidates for a US House seat conceded the race while he was leading by several thousand votes. (He did indeed eventually lose.)
since when has it become common to have the (official) election results on election day evening?
A) Since the wide-spread adoption of the properly-maligned lever voting machines. Suddenly, ballots didn’t have to be counted. A couple of precinct workers copied the numbers off the counters in the back of the machine, added them up, and sent them in to the city/county officials. Another round of adding there, and phone them in to the state officials. Suddenly, by 2:00 am or so, everything but the absentee ballots had been totaled up.
B) Since the announcement of partial results. Once that was happening, it was inevitable that the statisticians would start building predictive models. Hence the early pronouncements of the form, “With 5% of precincts reporting, ABC calls the state of Texas for George W. Bush.” I enjoy some of the models. California has a strong pattern that late mail-in votes skew very heavily Democratic. So much so, and so reliably, that in 2018, one of the Republican candidates for a US House seat conceded the race while he was leading by several thousand votes. (He did indeed eventually lose.)
Well, maybe not the most convoluted.
Germany uses the mixed-member proportional representation system, a system of proportional representation combined with elements of first-past-the-post voting. The Bundestag has 598 nominal members, elected for a four-year term; these seats are distributed between the sixteen German states in proportion to the states’ population eligible to vote.
Every elector has two votes: a constituency and a list vote. 299 members are elected in single-member constituencies by first-past-the-post, based just on the first votes. The second votes are used to produce an overall proportional result in the states and then in the Bundestag. Seats are allocated using the Sainte-Laguë method. If a party wins fewer constituency seats in a state than its second votes would entitle it to, it receives additional seats from the relevant state list. Parties can file lists in each single state under certain conditions; for example, a fixed number of supporting signatures. Parties can receive second votes only in those states in which they have successfully filed a state list.
If a party by winning single-member constituencies in one state receives more seats than it would be entitled to according to its second vote share in that state (so-called overhang seats), the other parties receive compensation seats. Owing to this provision, the Bundestag usually has more than 598 members. The 18th Bundestag, for example, started with 631 seats: 598 regular and 33 overhang and compensation seats. Overhang seats are calculated at the state level, so many more seats are added to balance this out among the different states, adding more seats than would be needed to compensate for overhang at the national level in order to avoid negative vote weight.
In order to qualify for seats based on the party-list vote share, a party must either win three single-member constituencies or exceed a threshold of 5% of the second votes nationwide. If a party only wins one or two single-member constituencies and fails to get at least 5% of the second votes, it keeps the single-member seat(s), but other parties that accomplish at least one of the two threshold conditions receive compensation seats. (In the most recent example of this, during the 2002 election, the PDS won only 4.0% of the party-list votes nationwide, but won two constituencies in the state of Berlin.) The same applies if an independent candidate wins a single-member constituency (which has not happened since 1949). In the 2013 election, the FDP only won 4.8% of party-list votes; this cost it all of its seats in the Bundestag.
If a voter has cast a first vote for a successful independent candidate or a successful candidate whose party failed to qualify for proportional representation, their second vote does not count to determine proportional representation. However, it does count to determine whether the elected party has exceeded the 5% threshold.
Parties representing recognized national minorities (currently Danes, Frisians, Sorbs and Romani people) are exempt from the 5% threshold, but normally only run in state elections.[5]
Well, maybe not the most convoluted.
Germany uses the mixed-member proportional representation system, a system of proportional representation combined with elements of first-past-the-post voting. The Bundestag has 598 nominal members, elected for a four-year term; these seats are distributed between the sixteen German states in proportion to the states’ population eligible to vote.
Every elector has two votes: a constituency and a list vote. 299 members are elected in single-member constituencies by first-past-the-post, based just on the first votes. The second votes are used to produce an overall proportional result in the states and then in the Bundestag. Seats are allocated using the Sainte-Laguë method. If a party wins fewer constituency seats in a state than its second votes would entitle it to, it receives additional seats from the relevant state list. Parties can file lists in each single state under certain conditions; for example, a fixed number of supporting signatures. Parties can receive second votes only in those states in which they have successfully filed a state list.
If a party by winning single-member constituencies in one state receives more seats than it would be entitled to according to its second vote share in that state (so-called overhang seats), the other parties receive compensation seats. Owing to this provision, the Bundestag usually has more than 598 members. The 18th Bundestag, for example, started with 631 seats: 598 regular and 33 overhang and compensation seats. Overhang seats are calculated at the state level, so many more seats are added to balance this out among the different states, adding more seats than would be needed to compensate for overhang at the national level in order to avoid negative vote weight.
In order to qualify for seats based on the party-list vote share, a party must either win three single-member constituencies or exceed a threshold of 5% of the second votes nationwide. If a party only wins one or two single-member constituencies and fails to get at least 5% of the second votes, it keeps the single-member seat(s), but other parties that accomplish at least one of the two threshold conditions receive compensation seats. (In the most recent example of this, during the 2002 election, the PDS won only 4.0% of the party-list votes nationwide, but won two constituencies in the state of Berlin.) The same applies if an independent candidate wins a single-member constituency (which has not happened since 1949). In the 2013 election, the FDP only won 4.8% of party-list votes; this cost it all of its seats in the Bundestag.
If a voter has cast a first vote for a successful independent candidate or a successful candidate whose party failed to qualify for proportional representation, their second vote does not count to determine proportional representation. However, it does count to determine whether the elected party has exceeded the 5% threshold.
Parties representing recognized national minorities (currently Danes, Frisians, Sorbs and Romani people) are exempt from the 5% threshold, but normally only run in state elections.[5]
yeah, because we’ve never, ever changed anything in the Constitution.
I argue that post the Bill of Rights, we’ve only made two serious structural changes to the Constitution: the post-Civil War amendments and popular election of Senators. In the first one, 750,000 people had to die to get the changes made. In the second, we were within a whisker of calling a new convention and possibly tossing the whole thing out. Everything else, we’ve just diddled around the edges.
Perhaps the biggest change in our form of government isn’t the result of any amendment. Congress, the President, and eventually the Supreme Court decided that Congress could delegate enormous amounts of legislating to the executive branch. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to talk about “the fourth branch of government.”
yeah, because we’ve never, ever changed anything in the Constitution.
I argue that post the Bill of Rights, we’ve only made two serious structural changes to the Constitution: the post-Civil War amendments and popular election of Senators. In the first one, 750,000 people had to die to get the changes made. In the second, we were within a whisker of calling a new convention and possibly tossing the whole thing out. Everything else, we’ve just diddled around the edges.
Perhaps the biggest change in our form of government isn’t the result of any amendment. Congress, the President, and eventually the Supreme Court decided that Congress could delegate enormous amounts of legislating to the executive branch. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to talk about “the fourth branch of government.”
President Trump says TikTok must be bought by US company and pay cut of selling price into US Treasury
Well, that’s definitely institutionalizing bribery and corruption.
President Trump says TikTok must be bought by US company and pay cut of selling price into US Treasury
Well, that’s definitely institutionalizing bribery and corruption.
A hell of a lot of people support Donald Trump. I find that disturbing. If you cut Trump’s popular vote in half, I would find it disturbing.
It tells me that we’re not a nation of people who were somehow momentarily misled by a program of Russian propaganda. It tells me that we’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who are happy to be led over the cliff by an obvious charlatan.
I suspect that the number of Trump “supporters” who actually embrace him is far smaller. More on the order or the plurality of Republican voters he was getting in the early primaries. Still unhappily large, but a far smaller group.
The rest are just folks who see politics like sports, and reflexively support “their” team/party. Which is a different kind of disturbing. But my sense is that, unlike us here, most people don’t actually see a connection between politicians (beyond the local level) and their own lives. So they feel free to cheer, without noticing the consequences.
When they do notice, when the consequences get through their thick heads, their support turns to outrage at their betrayal. But getting thru to them is challenging. The information silos we have today make it harder. Harder, that is, than it was in our youth, when everybody watched the same 3 broadcast networks. But not, I think, notably harder than in the days when we had similar information silos based on which newspaper one read.
A hell of a lot of people support Donald Trump. I find that disturbing. If you cut Trump’s popular vote in half, I would find it disturbing.
It tells me that we’re not a nation of people who were somehow momentarily misled by a program of Russian propaganda. It tells me that we’re a nation with a disturbingly high number of people who are happy to be led over the cliff by an obvious charlatan.
I suspect that the number of Trump “supporters” who actually embrace him is far smaller. More on the order or the plurality of Republican voters he was getting in the early primaries. Still unhappily large, but a far smaller group.
The rest are just folks who see politics like sports, and reflexively support “their” team/party. Which is a different kind of disturbing. But my sense is that, unlike us here, most people don’t actually see a connection between politicians (beyond the local level) and their own lives. So they feel free to cheer, without noticing the consequences.
When they do notice, when the consequences get through their thick heads, their support turns to outrage at their betrayal. But getting thru to them is challenging. The information silos we have today make it harder. Harder, that is, than it was in our youth, when everybody watched the same 3 broadcast networks. But not, I think, notably harder than in the days when we had similar information silos based on which newspaper one read.
Another four years of Trump, and this country will be FUBAR. And I mean, really FUBAR.
With the caveat that the R in this case may be for Recovery rather than Recognition.
Another four years of Trump, and this country will be FUBAR. And I mean, really FUBAR.
With the caveat that the R in this case may be for Recovery rather than Recognition.
Well, maybe not the most convoluted.
That was actually very interesting. Here’s the tl;dr version:
The German president and chancellor are both elected by bodies whose members accurately reflect the population at large. The Bundestag in the case of the chancellor, the Bundestag and electors chosen by state legislators.
In the first one, 750,000 people had to die to get the changes made. In the second, we were within a whisker of calling a new convention and possibly tossing the whole thing out.
If that’s what it takes, then that’s what it takes.
A process that results in POTUS Trump is seriously flawed.
A process that results in POTUS Trump, twice, is broken. A process that even makes that a realistic possibility is broken.
Time to fix it.
Well, maybe not the most convoluted.
That was actually very interesting. Here’s the tl;dr version:
The German president and chancellor are both elected by bodies whose members accurately reflect the population at large. The Bundestag in the case of the chancellor, the Bundestag and electors chosen by state legislators.
In the first one, 750,000 people had to die to get the changes made. In the second, we were within a whisker of calling a new convention and possibly tossing the whole thing out.
If that’s what it takes, then that’s what it takes.
A process that results in POTUS Trump is seriously flawed.
A process that results in POTUS Trump, twice, is broken. A process that even makes that a realistic possibility is broken.
Time to fix it.
Thank you, Marty. That was far more concise than I could have managed. It is indeed a mess (or as Bismarck said: policy/politics is like sausages. It’s better not to know how either is made) and the high court has issued an ultimatum to clear/n it up at least partially.
The basic idea is to steer between the Scylla of skewed pure majority vote (as in Britain and the UK) and the Charybdis of pure proportional representation with potentially 2 dozen parties in parliament (as in the Paulskirchenparlament or Weimar).
The compensation for 3 seats directly won was originally an idea of Adenauer to get some barely disguised old Nazis into the first Bundestag because he needed them for his first coalition government. Ironically it would be the renamed ruling party of the late GDR that would profit for a time from that past 1991. One effect of the system is that locally strong parties have a chance (like the CSU and earlier they Bayernpartei in Bavaria or the post-communists in the first years after reunification.
Most attempts to change they system by going into either direction had the pure intent to effectively kill certain parties (the CSU with pure country-wide proportional representation, the (mildly) libertarian FDP and the Green Party with pure direct election of candidates).
It’s a mess to get parliament elected and constituted but once it has happened there are few valid claims that it is either not representative or not workable (and the few that do loudly complain are usually those that would like to get rid of the whole representative democracy idea).
Thank you, Marty. That was far more concise than I could have managed. It is indeed a mess (or as Bismarck said: policy/politics is like sausages. It’s better not to know how either is made) and the high court has issued an ultimatum to clear/n it up at least partially.
The basic idea is to steer between the Scylla of skewed pure majority vote (as in Britain and the UK) and the Charybdis of pure proportional representation with potentially 2 dozen parties in parliament (as in the Paulskirchenparlament or Weimar).
The compensation for 3 seats directly won was originally an idea of Adenauer to get some barely disguised old Nazis into the first Bundestag because he needed them for his first coalition government. Ironically it would be the renamed ruling party of the late GDR that would profit for a time from that past 1991. One effect of the system is that locally strong parties have a chance (like the CSU and earlier they Bayernpartei in Bavaria or the post-communists in the first years after reunification.
Most attempts to change they system by going into either direction had the pure intent to effectively kill certain parties (the CSU with pure country-wide proportional representation, the (mildly) libertarian FDP and the Green Party with pure direct election of candidates).
It’s a mess to get parliament elected and constituted but once it has happened there are few valid claims that it is either not representative or not workable (and the few that do loudly complain are usually those that would like to get rid of the whole representative democracy idea).
MC: “I argue that post the Bill of Rights, we’ve only made two serious structural changes to the Constitution: the post-Civil War amendments and popular election of Senators.”
What, no love for the 12th Amendment?
The really early acknowledgement that the original “electoral college vote for president” was seriously fncked up?
Of course, Bush/Cheney violated the 12th before they even took office, the crooks. The old founding-generation guys should have known better than to put a rule in the Constitution without having an ‘enforcement provision’.
Next time, we’ll know better. There’ll be a
“violation of this clause shall result in immediate summary execution by a dude named ‘Thullen’. Don’t ask why.”
MC: “I argue that post the Bill of Rights, we’ve only made two serious structural changes to the Constitution: the post-Civil War amendments and popular election of Senators.”
What, no love for the 12th Amendment?
The really early acknowledgement that the original “electoral college vote for president” was seriously fncked up?
Of course, Bush/Cheney violated the 12th before they even took office, the crooks. The old founding-generation guys should have known better than to put a rule in the Constitution without having an ‘enforcement provision’.
Next time, we’ll know better. There’ll be a
“violation of this clause shall result in immediate summary execution by a dude named ‘Thullen’. Don’t ask why.”
The TikTok mess isn’t the first time a president and the government have attempted to prise a business out of foreign ownership.
“The story wasn’t completely analogous to the current saga. Unlike the present occupant of the Oval Office, Woodrow Wilson didn’t declare that he had the unilateral presidential authority to prohibit a platform for people’s speech. Nor did he suggest that the U.S. Treasury should grab a “very substantial portion” of the sale price. And it remains to be seen whether Trump’s efforts will have as long-lasting an effect as the Wilson administration’s scheme, whose impact reverberated for decades.”
How the Government Created RCA: A century before its threats against TikTok, Washington pried a different media company out of foreign hands.
The TikTok mess isn’t the first time a president and the government have attempted to prise a business out of foreign ownership.
“The story wasn’t completely analogous to the current saga. Unlike the present occupant of the Oval Office, Woodrow Wilson didn’t declare that he had the unilateral presidential authority to prohibit a platform for people’s speech. Nor did he suggest that the U.S. Treasury should grab a “very substantial portion” of the sale price. And it remains to be seen whether Trump’s efforts will have as long-lasting an effect as the Wilson administration’s scheme, whose impact reverberated for decades.”
How the Government Created RCA: A century before its threats against TikTok, Washington pried a different media company out of foreign hands.
So many fixes:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/3rd-party-shenanigans/
So many fixes:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/3rd-party-shenanigans/
Still not nearly enough military grade weaponry in the hands of Americans, particularly in the hands of those who need it most:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/evictiontastic
Still not nearly enough military grade weaponry in the hands of Americans, particularly in the hands of those who need it most:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/evictiontastic
Republican QAnon, of which these scum are a manifestation, must be hunted down, terminated, and deposited with the fishes running out of Osama bin Laden meat to feed on.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-most-absurd-trumpian-drama-ever-is-taking-place-at-of-all-places-usaid?ref=author
QAnon will kill more Americans than al Qaeda and ISIS combined.
Republican QAnon, of which these scum are a manifestation, must be hunted down, terminated, and deposited with the fishes running out of Osama bin Laden meat to feed on.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-most-absurd-trumpian-drama-ever-is-taking-place-at-of-all-places-usaid?ref=author
QAnon will kill more Americans than al Qaeda and ISIS combined.
We’re pretty much into open thread sort of comments, right?
Yesterday I got hearing aids fitted. I have the top octave-and-a-half of music back. My wife can stand at the bottom of the stairs and ask a question in a reasonable voice, and I answer from my office because I heard and understood it. Not to mention that they’re Bluetooth capable and paired with my phone, so I have a high quality headset for phone calls and “speakers” for streaming audio that are matched to my frequency-dependent hearing loss. Lithium ion induction charged batteries guaranteed forever. Billion-op per second DSP that’s not just doing fancy filtering, but looking at the big picture and adjusting the filters.
Damn.
We’re pretty much into open thread sort of comments, right?
Yesterday I got hearing aids fitted. I have the top octave-and-a-half of music back. My wife can stand at the bottom of the stairs and ask a question in a reasonable voice, and I answer from my office because I heard and understood it. Not to mention that they’re Bluetooth capable and paired with my phone, so I have a high quality headset for phone calls and “speakers” for streaming audio that are matched to my frequency-dependent hearing loss. Lithium ion induction charged batteries guaranteed forever. Billion-op per second DSP that’s not just doing fancy filtering, but looking at the big picture and adjusting the filters.
Damn.
We are a deeply sick f*ck sociopath of a country:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/5/1966823/-Crawfish-Guestworkers-We-went-to-the-hospital-to-get-treated-for-COVID-19-our-employer-fired-us
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2020/08/04/colorado-state-university-athletes-say-administration-covering-up-coronavirus-health-threats/5572625002/
As a class of people, Americans aren’t classy, are not exceptional, and need beatings all around.
The cops are beating up all the wrong people.
Who the f*ck do we think we are?
We are a deeply sick f*ck sociopath of a country:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/5/1966823/-Crawfish-Guestworkers-We-went-to-the-hospital-to-get-treated-for-COVID-19-our-employer-fired-us
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2020/08/04/colorado-state-university-athletes-say-administration-covering-up-coronavirus-health-threats/5572625002/
As a class of people, Americans aren’t classy, are not exceptional, and need beatings all around.
The cops are beating up all the wrong people.
Who the f*ck do we think we are?
Yo!
Yeah, ovah heah, semites.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/yo-semites/
Yo!
Yeah, ovah heah, semites.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/yo-semites/
Michael Cain: wow! O brave new world, that has such gadgets in it…
Michael Cain: wow! O brave new world, that has such gadgets in it…
Of course, it goes without saying that most of that technical detail was Greek to me, but it was the transformational aspect of your comment that impressed me!
Of course, it goes without saying that most of that technical detail was Greek to me, but it was the transformational aspect of your comment that impressed me!
I wonder if some of my reaction is like times past when doctors put off cataract surgery for patients until their vision was bad enough that the post-surgery results would be a drastic improvement. The aids’ processing does create some distortions, and if I pay close attention I can notice some of those, but the overall improvement is dramatic.
It got me thinking this morning whether there would be a similar response if Biden wins. He and his administration may be regarded as better than they actually are simply by comparison to the Trump administration.
I wonder if some of my reaction is like times past when doctors put off cataract surgery for patients until their vision was bad enough that the post-surgery results would be a drastic improvement. The aids’ processing does create some distortions, and if I pay close attention I can notice some of those, but the overall improvement is dramatic.
It got me thinking this morning whether there would be a similar response if Biden wins. He and his administration may be regarded as better than they actually are simply by comparison to the Trump administration.
He and his administration may be regarded as better than they actually are simply by comparison to the Trump administration.
Quite possible. But then, they will have a big enough mess to clean up that accomplishing anything beyond that would be impressive. And I expect he will feel there is a lot to be done.
He and his administration may be regarded as better than they actually are simply by comparison to the Trump administration.
Quite possible. But then, they will have a big enough mess to clean up that accomplishing anything beyond that would be impressive. And I expect he will feel there is a lot to be done.
Michael, who is the vendor?
Michael, who is the vendor?
Still likely to lead to a land(back)slide in 2022.
Meanwhile, if Jabbabonk indeed goes through with his intended census adulteration, I hope the Dems will fight it up to SCOTUS (and Roberts will again be ‘a traitor’ in a 5:4 demanding to put it right before the data is used for allocation).
Still likely to lead to a land(back)slide in 2022.
Meanwhile, if Jabbabonk indeed goes through with his intended census adulteration, I hope the Dems will fight it up to SCOTUS (and Roberts will again be ‘a traitor’ in a 5:4 demanding to put it right before the data is used for allocation).
Yesterday I got hearing aids fitted.
I wore hearing aids from when I was 5 until I was about 8, when I lost them somewhere. My folks didn’t replace them, mostly likely because they were tired of trying to make me wear them.
Then, I started wearing them again when I was about 50. It was life-changing.
Mine seem similar to yours, except not rechargeable. There’s a little bit of digital glare in the very highest octaves, which drives me slightly nuts if I’m listening to acoustic piano. But then again, the very highest octaves are once again perceptible. So, on net, a solid win.
If you can’t see, you get glasses. If you can’t hear, you should look into hearing aids.
It makes a huge difference.
Yesterday I got hearing aids fitted.
I wore hearing aids from when I was 5 until I was about 8, when I lost them somewhere. My folks didn’t replace them, mostly likely because they were tired of trying to make me wear them.
Then, I started wearing them again when I was about 50. It was life-changing.
Mine seem similar to yours, except not rechargeable. There’s a little bit of digital glare in the very highest octaves, which drives me slightly nuts if I’m listening to acoustic piano. But then again, the very highest octaves are once again perceptible. So, on net, a solid win.
If you can’t see, you get glasses. If you can’t hear, you should look into hearing aids.
It makes a huge difference.
Today just became a very good day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-lapierre-ny-attorney-general/2020/08/06/8e389794-d794-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
I suppose one might be glad that they were diverting funds to themselves, rather than using them for yet more lobbying and electioneering. But getting them nailed has to be a plus for the nation.
And if the NY AG does force them to send refunds to their members, it makes it harder for said members to ignore that they’ve been being conned. I mean, how can it be fake news if I just got this check in the mail?
Today just became a very good day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nra-lapierre-ny-attorney-general/2020/08/06/8e389794-d794-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
I suppose one might be glad that they were diverting funds to themselves, rather than using them for yet more lobbying and electioneering. But getting them nailed has to be a plus for the nation.
And if the NY AG does force them to send refunds to their members, it makes it harder for said members to ignore that they’ve been being conned. I mean, how can it be fake news if I just got this check in the mail?
Re: NRA destruction
As Yosemite Sam would say:
“Thar’s *griftin’s* in them thar rubes!”
(then fire some rounds from his six-shooters)
Re: NRA destruction
As Yosemite Sam would say:
“Thar’s *griftin’s* in them thar rubes!”
(then fire some rounds from his six-shooters)
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/6/1967019/-Corrupt-Trump-plays-favorites-with-coronavirus-aid-to-states
Nuke and kill the Republican Party. Stab it in its eyes.
Invite the Chinese to invade both Texas and Florida and liquidate all republicans in those filthy federal dollar sucking climes.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/6/1967019/-Corrupt-Trump-plays-favorites-with-coronavirus-aid-to-states
Nuke and kill the Republican Party. Stab it in its eyes.
Invite the Chinese to invade both Texas and Florida and liquidate all republicans in those filthy federal dollar sucking climes.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-the-state-department/
Ditto.
They must be stopped with a tidal wave of their blood.
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-the-state-department/
Ditto.
They must be stopped with a tidal wave of their blood.
Re: NRA destruction
This can only mean that the libs are coming for yer guns and are going to destroy the 2nd A.
Some copy writes itself.
Re: NRA destruction
This can only mean that the libs are coming for yer guns and are going to destroy the 2nd A.
Some copy writes itself.
More on the NRA scandal.
“Whether or not the lawsuits’ allegations are true, the suits, brought by Democratic officials against one of the most divisive advocacy organizations in the country, are guaranteed to ignite a political firestorm.
The Washington Free Beacon reported yesterday that the NRA is planning to spend “tens of millions” in battleground states to reelect President Donald Trump. Jason Ouimet, the head of the NRA’s lobbying arm, told the Free Beacon that the NRA has added more than 1,000 new dues-paying members per day since June.
There has been a record-breaking surge in gun sales over the past several months, driven by both the COVID-19 pandemic and the unrest following the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.”
New York Attorney General Seeks To Dissolve NRA in Lawsuit Alleging Massive Fraud: The lawsuit accuses the group’s leaders of fraudulently diverted millions of dollars to prop up their luxury lifestyles.
More on the NRA scandal.
“Whether or not the lawsuits’ allegations are true, the suits, brought by Democratic officials against one of the most divisive advocacy organizations in the country, are guaranteed to ignite a political firestorm.
The Washington Free Beacon reported yesterday that the NRA is planning to spend “tens of millions” in battleground states to reelect President Donald Trump. Jason Ouimet, the head of the NRA’s lobbying arm, told the Free Beacon that the NRA has added more than 1,000 new dues-paying members per day since June.
There has been a record-breaking surge in gun sales over the past several months, driven by both the COVID-19 pandemic and the unrest following the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.”
New York Attorney General Seeks To Dissolve NRA in Lawsuit Alleging Massive Fraud: The lawsuit accuses the group’s leaders of fraudulently diverted millions of dollars to prop up their luxury lifestyles.
the suits, brought by Democratic officials against one of the most divisive advocacy organizations in the country, are guaranteed to ignite a political firestorm.
Because, of course, it’s unthinkable that a government AG’s office is simply doing its job, without political intent.** And, I suppose, it’s equally unthinkable that a jury verdict at trail could be anything but partisan.
This kind of mindless bullsh*t gets really tedious. Just because the author is a partisan/ideological hack doesn’t mean that everybody else must be.
** Like, if it was a partisan put-up job, why wasn’t it done long since? It’s not like the NRA is a new player on the scene.
the suits, brought by Democratic officials against one of the most divisive advocacy organizations in the country, are guaranteed to ignite a political firestorm.
Because, of course, it’s unthinkable that a government AG’s office is simply doing its job, without political intent.** And, I suppose, it’s equally unthinkable that a jury verdict at trail could be anything but partisan.
This kind of mindless bullsh*t gets really tedious. Just because the author is a partisan/ideological hack doesn’t mean that everybody else must be.
** Like, if it was a partisan put-up job, why wasn’t it done long since? It’s not like the NRA is a new player on the scene.
Marty, these are by Phonak, model Audeo M50-R. Pretty much mid-range on price. There are much less expensive DSP-based hearing aids showing up in the market these days. It will be interesting to see if the discount brands can catch up to the premium outfits in software.
On russell’s points… I’m certainly not going back. Whatever distortions the aids may be adding, it’s preferable to what I had before. The comparison to glasses raises some social questions. These hearing aids cost a LOT more than my prescription reading glasses. Although non-FDA-approved personal amplification aids are also getting better according to Kaiser.
Marty, these are by Phonak, model Audeo M50-R. Pretty much mid-range on price. There are much less expensive DSP-based hearing aids showing up in the market these days. It will be interesting to see if the discount brands can catch up to the premium outfits in software.
On russell’s points… I’m certainly not going back. Whatever distortions the aids may be adding, it’s preferable to what I had before. The comparison to glasses raises some social questions. These hearing aids cost a LOT more than my prescription reading glasses. Although non-FDA-approved personal amplification aids are also getting better according to Kaiser.
This society and economy will not go forward as presently constituted with self-dealing sociopaths:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-greed-holding-back-a-drug-that-could-treat-covid-19-patients-11596737727?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Regarding the NRA, if indeed those anti-American republicans conservatives stole $64 million from their dupe members, that’s gotta be the largest heist from the most armed organization in world history.
That’s like stealing from the Mafia, or the U.S. Army. Takes some brass balls, that.
I’d like to know what dumbass NRA members think all of those guns and ammo and Second Amendment solutions did to protect their wealth and their castles?
Protect your castle? How about La Pierre and filth stealing your money and buying their own castles with it.
Sounds like the tree of liberty watered your shoes with the piss of psychopaths. Right in front of yer blind eyes. And La Pierre didn’t even have to wear camo because they steal from the willfully unseeing.
And not a shot fired. Y’all must have been pointing your popguns in the wrong direction, like Elmer Fudd.
Never shoot, and never, ever ask any questions now or later.
We’re taking your weapons, dopes, because you prove you don’t them and have no idea what dangers they should be used against.
Any blacks, hispanics, muslims, and immigrants hated by the NRA elites and their dupes among the accused, I wonder?
They scared the pants off you twits about the imaginary enemies coming to get yer daughters and yer hubcaps and yer jobs and then they kept your pants AND your wallet, and ran the pants up a flagpole so you could salute your bullshit flag.
Your castles were cased, alright … by white republican conservative traitors.
We need many MORE guns in this country to execute the true EVIL.
Right wing judges infesting our courts will overturn any judgement and punishment against these scum.
There is no America.
There is only the autopsy, performed by a quack dupe.
Nowhere in the Constitution.
This society and economy will not go forward as presently constituted with self-dealing sociopaths:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-greed-holding-back-a-drug-that-could-treat-covid-19-patients-11596737727?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Regarding the NRA, if indeed those anti-American republicans conservatives stole $64 million from their dupe members, that’s gotta be the largest heist from the most armed organization in world history.
That’s like stealing from the Mafia, or the U.S. Army. Takes some brass balls, that.
I’d like to know what dumbass NRA members think all of those guns and ammo and Second Amendment solutions did to protect their wealth and their castles?
Protect your castle? How about La Pierre and filth stealing your money and buying their own castles with it.
Sounds like the tree of liberty watered your shoes with the piss of psychopaths. Right in front of yer blind eyes. And La Pierre didn’t even have to wear camo because they steal from the willfully unseeing.
And not a shot fired. Y’all must have been pointing your popguns in the wrong direction, like Elmer Fudd.
Never shoot, and never, ever ask any questions now or later.
We’re taking your weapons, dopes, because you prove you don’t them and have no idea what dangers they should be used against.
Any blacks, hispanics, muslims, and immigrants hated by the NRA elites and their dupes among the accused, I wonder?
They scared the pants off you twits about the imaginary enemies coming to get yer daughters and yer hubcaps and yer jobs and then they kept your pants AND your wallet, and ran the pants up a flagpole so you could salute your bullshit flag.
Your castles were cased, alright … by white republican conservative traitors.
We need many MORE guns in this country to execute the true EVIL.
Right wing judges infesting our courts will overturn any judgement and punishment against these scum.
There is no America.
There is only the autopsy, performed by a quack dupe.
Nowhere in the Constitution.
Because, of course, it’s unthinkable that a government AG’s office is simply doing its job, without political intent.
Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected. That seems to make it a bit political. “Elect me and I’ll tear down that organization you hate so much.”
Just because the author is a partisan/ideological hack…
Seems like the author is just making an observation.
Because, of course, it’s unthinkable that a government AG’s office is simply doing its job, without political intent.
Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected. That seems to make it a bit political. “Elect me and I’ll tear down that organization you hate so much.”
Just because the author is a partisan/ideological hack…
Seems like the author is just making an observation.
There has been a record-breaking surge in gun sales over the past several months, driven by both the COVID-19 pandemic and the unrest following the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.”
clinging to them, to mollify their self-inflicted fear.
There has been a record-breaking surge in gun sales over the past several months, driven by both the COVID-19 pandemic and the unrest following the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.”
clinging to them, to mollify their self-inflicted fear.
“Elect me and I’ll tear down that organization you hate so much.”
Is that a direct quote? Is it even a quote from her mouth?
Was it political that the government prosecutors took on the Mafia?
Was it political that government prosecutors went after the KKK?
Was it political that government prosecutors went after Bernie Madoff?
Was it political when government prosecutors went after the Enron thieves?
Will it be political when government prosecutors prosecute, try, and execute Trump and his entire crew?
Of course it was and is, and more political power to the prosecutors.
Both sides do it. It’s time one side does it good and hard and eternally to the corrupt other side in power at the moment.
“Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected.”
Whaddya know? A politician who keeps her promises.
If she hadn’t, you’d say she was just being political during her campaign.
“Elect me and I’ll tear down that organization you hate so much.”
Is that a direct quote? Is it even a quote from her mouth?
Was it political that the government prosecutors took on the Mafia?
Was it political that government prosecutors went after the KKK?
Was it political that government prosecutors went after Bernie Madoff?
Was it political when government prosecutors went after the Enron thieves?
Will it be political when government prosecutors prosecute, try, and execute Trump and his entire crew?
Of course it was and is, and more political power to the prosecutors.
Both sides do it. It’s time one side does it good and hard and eternally to the corrupt other side in power at the moment.
“Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected.”
Whaddya know? A politician who keeps her promises.
If she hadn’t, you’d say she was just being political during her campaign.
Even if there is not one shred of truth to the charges against the NRA elite luminaries, that they fall hard and forever is in the national interest.
They have distributed arms and ammo to the entire criminal element in the country who kill their fellow Americans.
They have distributed arms and ammo to criminal elements, all fucking conservative/libertarian, who make it necessary that Dr. Fauci be escorted to and fro and at his home by armed law enforcement.
And now they are going after his grown children and their children.
When everyone has guns, criminals will have even more guns.
An armed society is a rude fucking American society.
Even if there is not one shred of truth to the charges against the NRA elite luminaries, that they fall hard and forever is in the national interest.
They have distributed arms and ammo to the entire criminal element in the country who kill their fellow Americans.
They have distributed arms and ammo to criminal elements, all fucking conservative/libertarian, who make it necessary that Dr. Fauci be escorted to and fro and at his home by armed law enforcement.
And now they are going after his grown children and their children.
When everyone has guns, criminals will have even more guns.
An armed society is a rude fucking American society.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-decades-of-pandemic-war-games-failed-to-account-for-donald-trump/
The link speaks for itself.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-decades-of-pandemic-war-games-failed-to-account-for-donald-trump/
The link speaks for itself.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-removes-troll-farm-posing-african-american-support-donald-trump-n1236056
This one’s for russell, given the Epoch Times connection.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-removes-troll-farm-posing-african-american-support-donald-trump-n1236056
This one’s for russell, given the Epoch Times connection.
Can you imagine an American Conservative/libertarian leper colony with Doctor Trump in attendance during the most infectious stages of the disease?
Quarantine, schmorantine.
First, kids, make sure your concealed carry holsters are not rubbing against your sores, my pretties.
Tomorrow’s outing, freedom lovers, will start with a stop at the local junior high school so all of you can participate in career advice day in the classrooms with the students, perhaps one on one if need be. Afterwards, lunch in the food court at the mall, followed by a swim at the local public pool … remember, now, to dip your feet in the antiseptic puddle while leaving the dressing room and before going off the high dive, oh, the biggest splash garners the prize, and a very special treat for you deprived hopeless romantics in the evening … we’ll head to the edge of town and visit the Check Your Scabs At the Door Kitty Ranch and Strip Club.
It’s Cop A Feel Night! Lap dances in the bodega out back. Bring plenty of ones for those happy endings, you fiscally conservative cheapskates!
Can you imagine an American Conservative/libertarian leper colony with Doctor Trump in attendance during the most infectious stages of the disease?
Quarantine, schmorantine.
First, kids, make sure your concealed carry holsters are not rubbing against your sores, my pretties.
Tomorrow’s outing, freedom lovers, will start with a stop at the local junior high school so all of you can participate in career advice day in the classrooms with the students, perhaps one on one if need be. Afterwards, lunch in the food court at the mall, followed by a swim at the local public pool … remember, now, to dip your feet in the antiseptic puddle while leaving the dressing room and before going off the high dive, oh, the biggest splash garners the prize, and a very special treat for you deprived hopeless romantics in the evening … we’ll head to the edge of town and visit the Check Your Scabs At the Door Kitty Ranch and Strip Club.
It’s Cop A Feel Night! Lap dances in the bodega out back. Bring plenty of ones for those happy endings, you fiscally conservative cheapskates!
Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected.
Nice to see an elected official deliver on what they promise.
This one’s for russell, given the Epoch Times connection.
those crazy bastards simply will not leave me alone.
Letitia James campaigned on a promise of going after the NRA if she were elected.
Nice to see an elected official deliver on what they promise.
This one’s for russell, given the Epoch Times connection.
those crazy bastards simply will not leave me alone.
That’s like stealing from the Mafia, or the U.S. Army. Takes some brass balls, that.
Not really. Just takes knowing that your membership is a bunch of fools. Which, since they’ve been buying this long con (and there’s really no other way to describe the NRA) for decades, it obviously is.
That’s like stealing from the Mafia, or the U.S. Army. Takes some brass balls, that.
Not really. Just takes knowing that your membership is a bunch of fools. Which, since they’ve been buying this long con (and there’s really no other way to describe the NRA) for decades, it obviously is.
The NRA is not a grassroots organization with a huge membership. A lot of those member numbers are one-year memberships purchased for the person by the dealer at the time of purchase and never renewed. A bunch of the rest are lifetime memberships, which may or may not belong to active and supportive members.
I don’t think for a moment that any of the gun-drug dealers whose main drug is the myth of redemptive gun violence care one bit about $64 mil embezzled, given the massively swollen market that the NRA has delivered to them with their racialized paranoia marketing schtick.
Of course a whole lot of those recent sales are to African-American buyers, so those gratuitous NRA memberships may start to look a bit scary to them in the very near future when that fantasy of theirs gets flipped.
The NRA is not a grassroots organization with a huge membership. A lot of those member numbers are one-year memberships purchased for the person by the dealer at the time of purchase and never renewed. A bunch of the rest are lifetime memberships, which may or may not belong to active and supportive members.
I don’t think for a moment that any of the gun-drug dealers whose main drug is the myth of redemptive gun violence care one bit about $64 mil embezzled, given the massively swollen market that the NRA has delivered to them with their racialized paranoia marketing schtick.
Of course a whole lot of those recent sales are to African-American buyers, so those gratuitous NRA memberships may start to look a bit scary to them in the very near future when that fantasy of theirs gets flipped.
I don’t think for a moment that any of the gun-drug dealers whose main drug is the myth of redemptive gun violence care one bit about $64 mil embezzled
Completely agree. For the gun manufacturers and dealers, for whom the NRA is just a great marketing tool, the response is likely “cheap at thrice the price!”
But note the DA’s intention to return money to members who, she says, were defrauded. At least in principle, some of those funds were their money.
I don’t think for a moment that any of the gun-drug dealers whose main drug is the myth of redemptive gun violence care one bit about $64 mil embezzled
Completely agree. For the gun manufacturers and dealers, for whom the NRA is just a great marketing tool, the response is likely “cheap at thrice the price!”
But note the DA’s intention to return money to members who, she says, were defrauded. At least in principle, some of those funds were their money.
Via Hullabaloo, read:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/
Via Hullabaloo, read:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/
The Party of Death will not receive a decent burial:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/the-party-of-death
The Party of Death will not receive a decent burial:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/the-party-of-death
This is how what isn’t outright stolen is doomed:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/08/why-did-world-war-ii-end-2/
This is how what isn’t outright stolen is doomed:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/08/why-did-world-war-ii-end-2/
This is the link that should have been attached with that 12:09 comment:
https://abc7chicago.com/kanye-west-republicans-trump-2020/6359322/
But, if Trump is re-elected I expect nuclear war with China.
This is the link that should have been attached with that 12:09 comment:
https://abc7chicago.com/kanye-west-republicans-trump-2020/6359322/
But, if Trump is re-elected I expect nuclear war with China.
Best piece I have read about the complexities of COVID:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/
Best piece I have read about the complexities of COVID:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/6/1967309/-Ted-Cruz-lies-outrageously-at-Senate-hearing-blames-far-right-terror-on-antifa
When will he burst into flames so we can refuse to put him out with raw sewage?
He’s an animal, a bug.
America will not go forward with his millions of ilk having signs of life.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/6/1967309/-Ted-Cruz-lies-outrageously-at-Senate-hearing-blames-far-right-terror-on-antifa
When will he burst into flames so we can refuse to put him out with raw sewage?
He’s an animal, a bug.
America will not go forward with his millions of ilk having signs of life.
Good Atlantic piece, nous, thanks.
Good Atlantic piece, nous, thanks.
the factual reality that right-wing extremists have committed about 10 times as many acts of domestic terrorism in the United States in the past three years (49 incidents to 5) with a concomitant difference in lethality (144 people killed to 4)
This is the statistic, from JDT’s link, which needs to be borne in mind and repeated continually.
the factual reality that right-wing extremists have committed about 10 times as many acts of domestic terrorism in the United States in the past three years (49 incidents to 5) with a concomitant difference in lethality (144 people killed to 4)
This is the statistic, from JDT’s link, which needs to be borne in mind and repeated continually.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottsnowden/2020/08/07/glacier-collapse/#45a4f8a827f6
This has Chinese hoax written all over it.
Ice is just a figment of the dumbass conservative imagination.
Think of the fury rising around the entire globe regarding what the worldwide conservative movement, working in tandem in all of its guises, regardless of economic system or cultural grounding, has subjected us to so far.
Think then of the savage fury, especially among heavily-armed populations like America’s the pitiful, 15 or 20 years ahead when global climate change dwarfs all of the other issues these murderous fuckers have refused to allow us to address via the instruments of what was once representative government.
Because it’s too late now. Even the time for redemption has run out.
If I were them, I’d start swimming for it now, because if they set foot on what’s left of my terra firma, they will be looking at guns in their faces, and when the time rolls around and I have anything to do with it, FEMA and Homeland Security will be purely brutal paramilitary forces to mete out blame and justice to the deserving who are deliberately and with righteous malice doing this to us.
I can be a law and order conservative too.
Biden needs to hurt the fake, malign God of radical republican conservatism.
Badly.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottsnowden/2020/08/07/glacier-collapse/#45a4f8a827f6
This has Chinese hoax written all over it.
Ice is just a figment of the dumbass conservative imagination.
Think of the fury rising around the entire globe regarding what the worldwide conservative movement, working in tandem in all of its guises, regardless of economic system or cultural grounding, has subjected us to so far.
Think then of the savage fury, especially among heavily-armed populations like America’s the pitiful, 15 or 20 years ahead when global climate change dwarfs all of the other issues these murderous fuckers have refused to allow us to address via the instruments of what was once representative government.
Because it’s too late now. Even the time for redemption has run out.
If I were them, I’d start swimming for it now, because if they set foot on what’s left of my terra firma, they will be looking at guns in their faces, and when the time rolls around and I have anything to do with it, FEMA and Homeland Security will be purely brutal paramilitary forces to mete out blame and justice to the deserving who are deliberately and with righteous malice doing this to us.
I can be a law and order conservative too.
Biden needs to hurt the fake, malign God of radical republican conservatism.
Badly.
The world is turning into a different place. What it’s gonna look like on the other side of all of this BS is kind of a jump-ball.
The way we live now – across many dimensions – is not sustainable. Therefore, the way we live is going to change.
Not a damned thing anyone can do about it. About the “it’s gonna change” part, that is. Everybody and anybody can do lots of things to make it suck less. Do those things.
Stay adaptable, everybody! It’s either that, or get run over.
The world is turning into a different place. What it’s gonna look like on the other side of all of this BS is kind of a jump-ball.
The way we live now – across many dimensions – is not sustainable. Therefore, the way we live is going to change.
Not a damned thing anyone can do about it. About the “it’s gonna change” part, that is. Everybody and anybody can do lots of things to make it suck less. Do those things.
Stay adaptable, everybody! It’s either that, or get run over.
An armed society is …. somehow one that allows ratfucking, sadistic villains like this to govern:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/the-worst-person-in-the-world/
We need ten times as many semi-automatic and automatic weapons in the country in hands willing to kill evil.
An armed society is …. somehow one that allows ratfucking, sadistic villains like this to govern:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/08/the-worst-person-in-the-world/
We need ten times as many semi-automatic and automatic weapons in the country in hands willing to kill evil.
It’s a worldwide criminal enterprise.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33546879/trump-scotland-open-championship-cash/
After we try him for his traitorous crimes here, and issue a sentence of death, extradite him to Scotland and let them get a piece of him, as long as he shipped back here for his final savage and very public fate.
Trump really is the epitome of the American dream: even the dumbest thug among us can pull himself up by our bootstraps and proceed to rip off and fuck all of us over.
It’s the American way.
It’s a worldwide criminal enterprise.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33546879/trump-scotland-open-championship-cash/
After we try him for his traitorous crimes here, and issue a sentence of death, extradite him to Scotland and let them get a piece of him, as long as he shipped back here for his final savage and very public fate.
Trump really is the epitome of the American dream: even the dumbest thug among us can pull himself up by our bootstraps and proceed to rip off and fuck all of us over.
It’s the American way.
It’s murderous psychopaths all the way down:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967365/-After-COVID-hospitalization-Kansas-Republican-went-to-meeting-with-governor-did-not-disclose
And yet all of those NRA weapons in Kansas are silent as murder stalks their citizens.
It’s murderous psychopaths all the way down:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967365/-After-COVID-hospitalization-Kansas-Republican-went-to-meeting-with-governor-did-not-disclose
And yet all of those NRA weapons in Kansas are silent as murder stalks their citizens.
Milller:
A sad little Fredo.
Milller:
A sad little Fredo.
COVID relief talks scuttled and Th’Rump planning to try to podge something out of executive power and paint the Dems as the cause of the pain.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/07/donald-trump-covid-19-unemployment-talks
Historically, this looks like Hoover’s half-measures in the face of the Great Depression, but there seems to be a disturbing number of the Emperor’s loyal subjects who are still insisting on the sartorial splendor of the Orange Nudist, so who knows how this plays out?
COVID relief talks scuttled and Th’Rump planning to try to podge something out of executive power and paint the Dems as the cause of the pain.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/07/donald-trump-covid-19-unemployment-talks
Historically, this looks like Hoover’s half-measures in the face of the Great Depression, but there seems to be a disturbing number of the Emperor’s loyal subjects who are still insisting on the sartorial splendor of the Orange Nudist, so who knows how this plays out?
Hoover, for all his faults and lack of understanding of the historical moment, was head and shoulders above Trump by any measure.
Hoover, for all his faults and lack of understanding of the historical moment, was head and shoulders above Trump by any measure.
Anyone without malign intent would be head and shoulders above Trump.
Hoover, it should be noted, was responsible (when not President) for things like the Commission for Relief in Belgium and the American Relief Administration after World War I. As Secretary of Commerce, he organized Federal relief efforts after the Mississippi Flood of 1927. Not to mention, in the early 1950s, leading the Commission on Organization of the Executive Branch of the Government (the Hoover Commission), which drastically revised, and vastly improved, the way the Federal government was organized and run. (He and Carter are the only serious candidates for being our best ex-President.)
It is impossible to imagine Trump doing any of those things. It is impossible to imagine any US President, even one of the current Republican politicians who might someday become President, even considering appointing him to do so. Even Kushner would be a better choice, and that’s a damn low bar.
Anyone without malign intent would be head and shoulders above Trump.
Hoover, it should be noted, was responsible (when not President) for things like the Commission for Relief in Belgium and the American Relief Administration after World War I. As Secretary of Commerce, he organized Federal relief efforts after the Mississippi Flood of 1927. Not to mention, in the early 1950s, leading the Commission on Organization of the Executive Branch of the Government (the Hoover Commission), which drastically revised, and vastly improved, the way the Federal government was organized and run. (He and Carter are the only serious candidates for being our best ex-President.)
It is impossible to imagine Trump doing any of those things. It is impossible to imagine any US President, even one of the current Republican politicians who might someday become President, even considering appointing him to do so. Even Kushner would be a better choice, and that’s a damn low bar.
In fairness, macroeconomics barely existed back in 1929, and its implications were not understood (or believed!) until much later.
Including in 2008. And 2020.
In fairness, macroeconomics barely existed back in 1929, and its implications were not understood (or believed!) until much later.
Including in 2008. And 2020.
…, which drastically revised, and vastly improved, the way the Federal government was organized and run.
We’re way overdue for another one.
…, which drastically revised, and vastly improved, the way the Federal government was organized and run.
We’re way overdue for another one.
We’re way overdue for another one.
Unfortunately, it would require both parties being interested in improvement — because the commission’s work is going to be a multi-year project. (Which, I agree, is sorely needed. Although a Commission on Organization of the Legislative Branch of the Government might be more urgent.)
But that’s something we don’t have. Nor any real prospect of. McConnell losing his Senate seat would be a big step in the right direction. Sadly, that looks like an outside shot at best. For all that a lot of his constituents are being horribly hurt by his refusal to address the need for a second relief bill.
We’re way overdue for another one.
Unfortunately, it would require both parties being interested in improvement — because the commission’s work is going to be a multi-year project. (Which, I agree, is sorely needed. Although a Commission on Organization of the Legislative Branch of the Government might be more urgent.)
But that’s something we don’t have. Nor any real prospect of. McConnell losing his Senate seat would be a big step in the right direction. Sadly, that looks like an outside shot at best. For all that a lot of his constituents are being horribly hurt by his refusal to address the need for a second relief bill.
Subversion, foreign and domestic.
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/stacey-abrams-on-census-freeze-this-is-more-nefarious-than-people-realize-89687621827
All norms dead.
Institutions hollowed out of their missions, even the expressly constitutional ones.
What do think is coming next right at you, conservatives?
It won’t be your fucking mail.
You can’t think what because there is no precedent for it.
The first Civil War was a warm-up exercise.
There is no middle ground left.
The conservative movement, that malign evil, retreated from it and burned it to the ground on in its ill-advised wake.
The smoking abyss that has taken its place can only be traversed by bullets.
Your country is hereby ungovernable at any fucking level. And any attempt by you scum to impose governance of any kind is the signing your death warrants.
Those not counted now will count YOU later.
And you and your children will NOT like it.
Subversion, foreign and domestic.
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/stacey-abrams-on-census-freeze-this-is-more-nefarious-than-people-realize-89687621827
All norms dead.
Institutions hollowed out of their missions, even the expressly constitutional ones.
What do think is coming next right at you, conservatives?
It won’t be your fucking mail.
You can’t think what because there is no precedent for it.
The first Civil War was a warm-up exercise.
There is no middle ground left.
The conservative movement, that malign evil, retreated from it and burned it to the ground on in its ill-advised wake.
The smoking abyss that has taken its place can only be traversed by bullets.
Your country is hereby ungovernable at any fucking level. And any attempt by you scum to impose governance of any kind is the signing your death warrants.
Those not counted now will count YOU later.
And you and your children will NOT like it.
Distancing yourself from a failing party is an easy hedge when your position is either completely secure or increasingly desperate. But if Republicans are serious about reckoning with their futures, they must start by asking themselves: “Where is my red line? At what point would I say, ‘This is just too much’?”
If it wasn’t seeing kids in cages or seeking bribes from a foreign government, was it the repeated suggestion that the coronavirus would take care of itself? If it wasn’t Trump’s defense of white nationalists in Charlottesville, was it when he suggested we postpone the election in a tweet?
From an opinion piece in today’s WaPo headlined I was a Republican, and I drew my red line too late. I’ll answer for my choices for years to come.
I suppose there is certain (limited) satisfaction in seeing Republicans (or in the case of McKinney conservatives) issuing mea culpas, or at least admissions that they were wrong, but what I really want to know is why are so fucking few of them doing it? An extremely knowledgeable, well-connected American asked me the other day “McConnell??? What possible explanation is there for it??? After all, he is not a half-wit.”
I blush to admit that I haven’t read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, but a question for anyone who has: is there a phenomenon like a tipping point, where an empire is on the slide and then suddenly reaches a point where it becomes unstoppable, and people who might have been presumed to have the brains and motivation to correct it give up and just go for the money (or whatever else is on offer)?
Distancing yourself from a failing party is an easy hedge when your position is either completely secure or increasingly desperate. But if Republicans are serious about reckoning with their futures, they must start by asking themselves: “Where is my red line? At what point would I say, ‘This is just too much’?”
If it wasn’t seeing kids in cages or seeking bribes from a foreign government, was it the repeated suggestion that the coronavirus would take care of itself? If it wasn’t Trump’s defense of white nationalists in Charlottesville, was it when he suggested we postpone the election in a tweet?
From an opinion piece in today’s WaPo headlined I was a Republican, and I drew my red line too late. I’ll answer for my choices for years to come.
I suppose there is certain (limited) satisfaction in seeing Republicans (or in the case of McKinney conservatives) issuing mea culpas, or at least admissions that they were wrong, but what I really want to know is why are so fucking few of them doing it? An extremely knowledgeable, well-connected American asked me the other day “McConnell??? What possible explanation is there for it??? After all, he is not a half-wit.”
I blush to admit that I haven’t read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, but a question for anyone who has: is there a phenomenon like a tipping point, where an empire is on the slide and then suddenly reaches a point where it becomes unstoppable, and people who might have been presumed to have the brains and motivation to correct it give up and just go for the money (or whatever else is on offer)?
You have to be impressed by the guy’s fierce determination to sicken, and kill off, his supporters. Although calling a presidential press conference a “peaceful protest” (his excuse for ignoring New Jersey’s covid-19 restrictions) is a bit over the top, even for him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-news-conference-bedminster/2020/08/08/343a0f86-d97c-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
Presumably his supporters there figure they are rich enough that they can get total medical care even if the hospitals are overwhelmed and turning away members of the hoi palloi.
You have to be impressed by the guy’s fierce determination to sicken, and kill off, his supporters. Although calling a presidential press conference a “peaceful protest” (his excuse for ignoring New Jersey’s covid-19 restrictions) is a bit over the top, even for him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-news-conference-bedminster/2020/08/08/343a0f86-d97c-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html
Presumably his supporters there figure they are rich enough that they can get total medical care even if the hospitals are overwhelmed and turning away members of the hoi palloi.
I haven’t read Gibbon but I think there was no single tipping point but a continous process that could have been retarded or accelerated significantly over centuries. It got temporarily reversed several times by capable rulers and there was imo no single ruler that made the decline irreversible. There were far too many factors in play and some of them existed even before Rome reached the peak of her power.
I haven’t read Gibbon but I think there was no single tipping point but a continous process that could have been retarded or accelerated significantly over centuries. It got temporarily reversed several times by capable rulers and there was imo no single ruler that made the decline irreversible. There were far too many factors in play and some of them existed even before Rome reached the peak of her power.
…is there a phenomenon like a tipping point, where an empire is on the slide and then suddenly reaches a point where it becomes unstoppable, and people who might have been presumed to have the brains and motivation to correct it give up and just go for the money (or whatever else is on offer)?
A variety of formal methods for dynamic systems have been proposed/used to describe tipping points. Hysteresis in electronics is a simple example. Cascading failures in sand piles are fun: given a small pile of sand on your desk and you drop individual grains onto the top, why do some grains simply “stick” and some grains cause a whole side of the pile to collapse? Unlike Thullen, who wants a shooting civil war, I’m inclined to think that people will gradually get comfortable talking about a partition of the US into two or more groups of “compatible” states that eventually leads to a tipping point where such a partition becomes inevitable. Who knows what the trigger might be (I think energy policy in response to climate change, but that’s just me)?
…is there a phenomenon like a tipping point, where an empire is on the slide and then suddenly reaches a point where it becomes unstoppable, and people who might have been presumed to have the brains and motivation to correct it give up and just go for the money (or whatever else is on offer)?
A variety of formal methods for dynamic systems have been proposed/used to describe tipping points. Hysteresis in electronics is a simple example. Cascading failures in sand piles are fun: given a small pile of sand on your desk and you drop individual grains onto the top, why do some grains simply “stick” and some grains cause a whole side of the pile to collapse? Unlike Thullen, who wants a shooting civil war, I’m inclined to think that people will gradually get comfortable talking about a partition of the US into two or more groups of “compatible” states that eventually leads to a tipping point where such a partition becomes inevitable. Who knows what the trigger might be (I think energy policy in response to climate change, but that’s just me)?
Presumably his supporters there figure they are rich enough that they can get total medical care even if the hospitals are overwhelmed and turning away members of the hoi palloi.
Someone should remind them that Herman Cain’s money didn’t save him.
Presumably his supporters there figure they are rich enough that they can get total medical care even if the hospitals are overwhelmed and turning away members of the hoi palloi.
Someone should remind them that Herman Cain’s money didn’t save him.
The wealthy are often the first adopters of goods and services that become useful and wanted by the larger society. Perhaps these people will be ginny pigs, ah, first adopters of new medical treatments the rest of us can benefit from.
The wealthy are often the first adopters of goods and services that become useful and wanted by the larger society. Perhaps these people will be ginny pigs, ah, first adopters of new medical treatments the rest of us can benefit from.
The Tom Holland without the spidey senses, on Gibbon and America:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/08/06/america-is-not-rome-it-just-thinks-it-is/
This is why, perhaps, faced by the rampant egotism and swagger of a showman like Trump, his opponents can often seem less alarmed by his policies than by his style. Nostalgia for a more dignified and marmoreal style of politics, one that might indeed seem descended from the age of the Founding Fathers, has been a constant among critics, Democrats as well as Republicans. Nowhere was this more evident than at the funeral of John McCain, whose record of heroism as a soldier and of patriotism as a senator Cincinnatus might well have admired.
The Tom Holland without the spidey senses, on Gibbon and America:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/08/06/america-is-not-rome-it-just-thinks-it-is/
This is why, perhaps, faced by the rampant egotism and swagger of a showman like Trump, his opponents can often seem less alarmed by his policies than by his style. Nostalgia for a more dignified and marmoreal style of politics, one that might indeed seem descended from the age of the Founding Fathers, has been a constant among critics, Democrats as well as Republicans. Nowhere was this more evident than at the funeral of John McCain, whose record of heroism as a soldier and of patriotism as a senator Cincinnatus might well have admired.
Michael Cain, I prefer your eventual scenario to Thullen’s, if those are the only two on offer, which they might be.
Hartmut, I had supposed that to be the case, but thanks for confirming. In theory, I know that all empires rise and then fall, so at (certain, more emotionally detached) times I am reconciled to the fall of the American one. But when I think of what is likely to replace it, I find it harder to be be so detached.
Michael Cain, I prefer your eventual scenario to Thullen’s, if those are the only two on offer, which they might be.
Hartmut, I had supposed that to be the case, but thanks for confirming. In theory, I know that all empires rise and then fall, so at (certain, more emotionally detached) times I am reconciled to the fall of the American one. But when I think of what is likely to replace it, I find it harder to be be so detached.
Want? No.
Predicts. Warns.
The right wing will start the violence. They tell us this. Every one of their pronouncements ends with “or else”.
Why else the arming of America?
Each election is a ratcheting up by them toward that “or else” end.
What they receive in return will be deserved punishment on THEIR violent terms, and we’re not talking Antifa’s pathetic storefront vandalism and senseless, nihilistic anarchy.
In retrospect, Civil War will still not be desired, but viewed as inevitable.
You sabotage the Post Office and the U.S. Census and the Courts, and you have deliberately placed us in a position of running hot metal against hot metal without the usual normative lubrication of institutions.
By the way, Dreher and others at The American Conservative have been speculating ominously about a coming Civil War as well.
Dreher particularly seems to believe transitioning men and women and the rest of the LGBT community and BLM and Joe Biden the Marxist! are coming for them, Dreher’s brand of Christianity always requiring that THEY get to play the martyrs and they may be the only ones who can do the canceling.
I’ve yet to see any gay men, lesbians, or transitioning Americans wielding an AR-15.
I haven’t read Gibbon. It sits ponderously on the shelf.
But I am re-reading William Shirer’s “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” and some of the parallels with Trump and his brownshirts are striking, although Trump does not measure up to Hitler’s crazed perverted genius and discipline and vision, long expressed pointedly and clearly, and why it was not stopped by a bullet to Hitler’s brain between 1923 and 1939 is difficult to fathom, except that Hitler’s racial vision for Germany was the apotheosis of German history and the German people’s opinion of themselves going back a long time.
Trump is more unpredictable and thus dangerous in a different aspect. He is an apotheosis of the long simmering racial (all of the Others) vision of a certain segment of the conservative movement in America, which we thought had been relegated to the fringes, but instead was beavering away ruthlessly and with great discipline below the surface until this asshole gave them the Will and the position to do their worst.
Want? No.
Predicts. Warns.
The right wing will start the violence. They tell us this. Every one of their pronouncements ends with “or else”.
Why else the arming of America?
Each election is a ratcheting up by them toward that “or else” end.
What they receive in return will be deserved punishment on THEIR violent terms, and we’re not talking Antifa’s pathetic storefront vandalism and senseless, nihilistic anarchy.
In retrospect, Civil War will still not be desired, but viewed as inevitable.
You sabotage the Post Office and the U.S. Census and the Courts, and you have deliberately placed us in a position of running hot metal against hot metal without the usual normative lubrication of institutions.
By the way, Dreher and others at The American Conservative have been speculating ominously about a coming Civil War as well.
Dreher particularly seems to believe transitioning men and women and the rest of the LGBT community and BLM and Joe Biden the Marxist! are coming for them, Dreher’s brand of Christianity always requiring that THEY get to play the martyrs and they may be the only ones who can do the canceling.
I’ve yet to see any gay men, lesbians, or transitioning Americans wielding an AR-15.
I haven’t read Gibbon. It sits ponderously on the shelf.
But I am re-reading William Shirer’s “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” and some of the parallels with Trump and his brownshirts are striking, although Trump does not measure up to Hitler’s crazed perverted genius and discipline and vision, long expressed pointedly and clearly, and why it was not stopped by a bullet to Hitler’s brain between 1923 and 1939 is difficult to fathom, except that Hitler’s racial vision for Germany was the apotheosis of German history and the German people’s opinion of themselves going back a long time.
Trump is more unpredictable and thus dangerous in a different aspect. He is an apotheosis of the long simmering racial (all of the Others) vision of a certain segment of the conservative movement in America, which we thought had been relegated to the fringes, but instead was beavering away ruthlessly and with great discipline below the surface until this asshole gave them the Will and the position to do their worst.
I’m inclined to think that people will gradually get comfortable talking about a partition of the US into two or more groups of “compatible” states that eventually leads to a tipping point where such a partition becomes inevitable.
There is the detail that we don’t actually have entire states which are compatible. What we have is parts of states. For example, the rural parts of Washington and Georgia are far more similar to each other than either of them are to either Seattle or Atlanta. What it comes down to is, there isn’t a neat way to partition the country. And that’s before the other detail that lots of people move around all the time.
I’m inclined to think that people will gradually get comfortable talking about a partition of the US into two or more groups of “compatible” states that eventually leads to a tipping point where such a partition becomes inevitable.
There is the detail that we don’t actually have entire states which are compatible. What we have is parts of states. For example, the rural parts of Washington and Georgia are far more similar to each other than either of them are to either Seattle or Atlanta. What it comes down to is, there isn’t a neat way to partition the country. And that’s before the other detail that lots of people move around all the time.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/08/the-president-announced-hes-signing-an-executive-order-to-cover-pre-existing-conditions-if-you-think-its-a-joke-youve-missed-the-point/
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/08/the-president-announced-hes-signing-an-executive-order-to-cover-pre-existing-conditions-if-you-think-its-a-joke-youve-missed-the-point/
What we have is parts of states.
Indeed. Which is why I think the issues have to be something that have regional concerns, not the urban/rural divide everyone is arguing about today. Things where the rural parts of Washington are more aligned with Seattle than they are with rural Georgia. Water. Fire. Energy. For example, Wyoming is slowly figuring out that the customers to their west who used to buy lots of coal-fired electricity simply aren’t going to buy it any more. But those same customers will buy lots of wind power, which Wyoming has in abundance.
What we have is parts of states.
Indeed. Which is why I think the issues have to be something that have regional concerns, not the urban/rural divide everyone is arguing about today. Things where the rural parts of Washington are more aligned with Seattle than they are with rural Georgia. Water. Fire. Energy. For example, Wyoming is slowly figuring out that the customers to their west who used to buy lots of coal-fired electricity simply aren’t going to buy it any more. But those same customers will buy lots of wind power, which Wyoming has in abundance.
Which is why I think the issues have to be something that have regional concerns, not the urban/rural divide everyone is arguing about today. Things where the rural parts of Washington are more aligned with Seattle than they are with rural Georgia. Water. Fire. Energy.
Except that those things are not what is driving fissions in our society. And, in many cases, are already adequately handled by regional groups — e.g. regional energy agreements. The divisions in our society are not actually rural/urban. But they follow those geographical splits more closely than any other. Without addressing those divisions, nobody is going to go for regional splitting up of the country. (I don’t actually think we will see Thullen’s civil war either. But splitting up the country seems almost as unlikely.)
Which is why I think the issues have to be something that have regional concerns, not the urban/rural divide everyone is arguing about today. Things where the rural parts of Washington are more aligned with Seattle than they are with rural Georgia. Water. Fire. Energy.
Except that those things are not what is driving fissions in our society. And, in many cases, are already adequately handled by regional groups — e.g. regional energy agreements. The divisions in our society are not actually rural/urban. But they follow those geographical splits more closely than any other. Without addressing those divisions, nobody is going to go for regional splitting up of the country. (I don’t actually think we will see Thullen’s civil war either. But splitting up the country seems almost as unlikely.)
I dare say that just about nobody currently alive has read the entire (22? 23? large volumes) Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
The condensed, abridged Penguin single volume? Yeah.
IMO, the collapse was baked into the cake around 100BC, when Rome shifted to a system of “whoever wins this round of civil war gets to be the big cheese”. At that point, the dice were loaded in favor of stupid destructive a-holes running things, and a run of bad luck resulting in collapse was inevitable.
I dare say that just about nobody currently alive has read the entire (22? 23? large volumes) Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
The condensed, abridged Penguin single volume? Yeah.
IMO, the collapse was baked into the cake around 100BC, when Rome shifted to a system of “whoever wins this round of civil war gets to be the big cheese”. At that point, the dice were loaded in favor of stupid destructive a-holes running things, and a run of bad luck resulting in collapse was inevitable.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967582/-Friday-Night-Massacre-at-USPS-Trump-ally-completely-restructures-gets-rid-of-23-execs
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967582/-Friday-Night-Massacre-at-USPS-Trump-ally-completely-restructures-gets-rid-of-23-execs
Looks like city/county states might be the coming thing. Rural populations are likely to continue to decline for political and economic reasons. The amount of land used for agriculture is declining. Agriculture automation is reducing the number of jobs in rural areas. High state-wide minimum wages will likely push people out of rural areas into cities.
Looks like city/county states might be the coming thing. Rural populations are likely to continue to decline for political and economic reasons. The amount of land used for agriculture is declining. Agriculture automation is reducing the number of jobs in rural areas. High state-wide minimum wages will likely push people out of rural areas into cities.
“High state-wide minimum wages will likely push people out of rural areas into cities.”
More likely, pull.
Low rural wages are doing the pushing out.
However, the housing industry is counting on much more rural housing development as the work-for-home pandemic becomes permanent.
Zuckerberg has already put his employees on notice that if they intend to remain working at home and especially if they move out of the cities, they will be paid less.
Of course, they will still be earning much more than their rural counterparts, which will drive up property prices and competing those townies out of mortgage and home affordability.
And natch, the newly arrived upper middle class won’t like it when in return the townies start demanding higher wages as well.
Then, there will be those closed post offices.
“High state-wide minimum wages will likely push people out of rural areas into cities.”
More likely, pull.
Low rural wages are doing the pushing out.
However, the housing industry is counting on much more rural housing development as the work-for-home pandemic becomes permanent.
Zuckerberg has already put his employees on notice that if they intend to remain working at home and especially if they move out of the cities, they will be paid less.
Of course, they will still be earning much more than their rural counterparts, which will drive up property prices and competing those townies out of mortgage and home affordability.
And natch, the newly arrived upper middle class won’t like it when in return the townies start demanding higher wages as well.
Then, there will be those closed post offices.
via Hullabaloo:
” We’re not polarized. One party is a pluralist center-to-left coalition whose ideas are broadly popular, based in scientific consensus; the other is reality-denying, near an authoritarian cult w waning minority support, hanging onto power through cheating and and panic-mongering. https://t.co/BujReaPdrr
— Rick Perlstein (@rickperlstein) August 8, 2020″
Hitler’s cult was waning just before he was released from prison in 1924.
via Hullabaloo:
” We’re not polarized. One party is a pluralist center-to-left coalition whose ideas are broadly popular, based in scientific consensus; the other is reality-denying, near an authoritarian cult w waning minority support, hanging onto power through cheating and and panic-mongering. https://t.co/BujReaPdrr
— Rick Perlstein (@rickperlstein) August 8, 2020″
Hitler’s cult was waning just before he was released from prison in 1924.
Wj, keep in mind my schedule for when this could happen. Thullen is ready to start shooting this evening. Nine years or so ago when I made my initial prediction, I said between 30 and 50 years. Nine years on, I would still be very surprised if it were in less than 21 years now, or more than 41. Will the US be a conventional global superpower in 31 years? Will it be the dominant economic player it is today? How much will the Southwest and Southeast differ on climate change when one is dealing with too little water and the other is dealing with too much?
As point of reference, from 1828 (tariff confrontations) to 1861 (shooting war) was 33 years.
Wj, keep in mind my schedule for when this could happen. Thullen is ready to start shooting this evening. Nine years or so ago when I made my initial prediction, I said between 30 and 50 years. Nine years on, I would still be very surprised if it were in less than 21 years now, or more than 41. Will the US be a conventional global superpower in 31 years? Will it be the dominant economic player it is today? How much will the Southwest and Southeast differ on climate change when one is dealing with too little water and the other is dealing with too much?
As point of reference, from 1828 (tariff confrontations) to 1861 (shooting war) was 33 years.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967293/-Fauci-s-daughters-live-all-over-the-U-S-Due-to-death-threats-he-s-hired-security-for-all-of-them
This evening may be too late.
Trump said today Democrats don’t love their country.
The last refuge of…etc. They always go there.
But they need to say it to my face. Bring a weapon.
Trump wants violent Civil War.
He ordered those death threats and hits from the White House on Fauci’s kids.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/7/1967293/-Fauci-s-daughters-live-all-over-the-U-S-Due-to-death-threats-he-s-hired-security-for-all-of-them
This evening may be too late.
Trump said today Democrats don’t love their country.
The last refuge of…etc. They always go there.
But they need to say it to my face. Bring a weapon.
Trump wants violent Civil War.
He ordered those death threats and hits from the White House on Fauci’s kids.
Michael, what I think I’m seeing is the country, on a regional basis, becoming more similar in many ways. I think of how different the South was from the rest of the country when I was growing up. Today, the rural South may still be that different, but the bulk (population-wise) of the region isn’t really that different from the rest of the country. Go to the suburbs of Atlanta or New Orleans, and then to the suburbs of Seattle or Cleveland or San Diego — similar people, with similar outlooks and similar lifestyles. Sure, there are cosmetic differences — see our previous mentions of what fast food establishments were in different regions. But overall? Just not that different.
That is, I think, what is driving a lot of the Trump-mania in the deep red states. They are becoming more like the rest of the country, both from people moving around and from businesses spreading out and bringing similar opportunities (and with them, similar kinds of people develop, even from local roots). If you hate change, as many people do, that’s deeply disturbing. But it’s also unstoppable. But not much you can do when your own kids keep becoming more like them.
Basically, I think you would have had a better chance of a partition 30-50 years ago than you have now. Or will have going forward. It looks to me like the trends are running the other way.
Michael, what I think I’m seeing is the country, on a regional basis, becoming more similar in many ways. I think of how different the South was from the rest of the country when I was growing up. Today, the rural South may still be that different, but the bulk (population-wise) of the region isn’t really that different from the rest of the country. Go to the suburbs of Atlanta or New Orleans, and then to the suburbs of Seattle or Cleveland or San Diego — similar people, with similar outlooks and similar lifestyles. Sure, there are cosmetic differences — see our previous mentions of what fast food establishments were in different regions. But overall? Just not that different.
That is, I think, what is driving a lot of the Trump-mania in the deep red states. They are becoming more like the rest of the country, both from people moving around and from businesses spreading out and bringing similar opportunities (and with them, similar kinds of people develop, even from local roots). If you hate change, as many people do, that’s deeply disturbing. But it’s also unstoppable. But not much you can do when your own kids keep becoming more like them.
Basically, I think you would have had a better chance of a partition 30-50 years ago than you have now. Or will have going forward. It looks to me like the trends are running the other way.
“I would still be very surprised if it were in less than 21 years now, or more than 41.”
The conservative movement is way ahead of your timeline.
Pat Buchanan has been threatening “lock and load” civil war for at least three decades.
Just so with Newt Gingrich and the revolutionary paramilitary NRA and militia movements.
Paul Weyrich, one of the architects of the coming Republican Civil War on America going back to the 1970s, oversaw the drafting of an essay in 2001 called “The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the The New Traditionalist Movement”, which was a virtual anti-Democratic and anti-small d democratic-declaration of war on American culture and governance.
“Our movement will be entirely destructive, and entirely constructive. We will not try to reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them, and eventually destroy them. We will endeavor to knock our opponents off balance and unsettle them at every opportunity …
We will use guerrilla tactics to undermine the legitimacy of the dominant regime. We will take advantage of every available opportunity to spread the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with the exiting state of affairs ..
Most of all, it will contribute to a vague sense of uneasiness and dissatisfaction with existing society. We need this if we hope to start picking people off and bringing over to our side. We need to break down before we build up. We must first clear away the flotsam of decayed culture.”
The movement advocated intimidating people and institutions, such as Hollywood celebrities and university administrators. We must be feared, Weyrich dictated, so they will think twice about opening their mouths.
It describes precisely the ruthless cancel culture that the conservative movement initiated in this country.
Did Trump read Weyrich. Of course not. But he is the dumb, blunt instrument of this malign piece of shit revolution. All of Trump’s seasoned political operatives are Weyrich’s children.
When he orders the worst, they already drafted it and think, finally, a motherfucker who will fuck liberals once and for all.
Trump gave them the ruthless will to destroy.
So, if we overlay today’s timetable over the pre-Civil War timetable, we’re closer to the endgame than gradulist partition, which, by the way, I far prefer to violence.
But overall, I choose Lincoln’s option to keep the Union together. I don’t want America to be partitioned.
If the conservative movement wants to keep separating us and refusing all compromise and going after the numerous Others, including restricting the voting franchise, they will leave my country one way or the other.
There is still room in those Confederate graveyards for the dead.
“I would still be very surprised if it were in less than 21 years now, or more than 41.”
The conservative movement is way ahead of your timeline.
Pat Buchanan has been threatening “lock and load” civil war for at least three decades.
Just so with Newt Gingrich and the revolutionary paramilitary NRA and militia movements.
Paul Weyrich, one of the architects of the coming Republican Civil War on America going back to the 1970s, oversaw the drafting of an essay in 2001 called “The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the The New Traditionalist Movement”, which was a virtual anti-Democratic and anti-small d democratic-declaration of war on American culture and governance.
“Our movement will be entirely destructive, and entirely constructive. We will not try to reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them, and eventually destroy them. We will endeavor to knock our opponents off balance and unsettle them at every opportunity …
We will use guerrilla tactics to undermine the legitimacy of the dominant regime. We will take advantage of every available opportunity to spread the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with the exiting state of affairs ..
Most of all, it will contribute to a vague sense of uneasiness and dissatisfaction with existing society. We need this if we hope to start picking people off and bringing over to our side. We need to break down before we build up. We must first clear away the flotsam of decayed culture.”
The movement advocated intimidating people and institutions, such as Hollywood celebrities and university administrators. We must be feared, Weyrich dictated, so they will think twice about opening their mouths.
It describes precisely the ruthless cancel culture that the conservative movement initiated in this country.
Did Trump read Weyrich. Of course not. But he is the dumb, blunt instrument of this malign piece of shit revolution. All of Trump’s seasoned political operatives are Weyrich’s children.
When he orders the worst, they already drafted it and think, finally, a motherfucker who will fuck liberals once and for all.
Trump gave them the ruthless will to destroy.
So, if we overlay today’s timetable over the pre-Civil War timetable, we’re closer to the endgame than gradulist partition, which, by the way, I far prefer to violence.
But overall, I choose Lincoln’s option to keep the Union together. I don’t want America to be partitioned.
If the conservative movement wants to keep separating us and refusing all compromise and going after the numerous Others, including restricting the voting franchise, they will leave my country one way or the other.
There is still room in those Confederate graveyards for the dead.
IMO, the collapse was baked into the cake around 100BC, when Rome shifted to a system of “whoever wins this round of civil war gets to be the big cheese”. At that point, the dice were loaded in favor of stupid destructive a-holes running things, and a run of bad luck resulting in collapse was inevitable.
I think that strain existed even before that but the a-holes had to band together to keep the hoi polloi down while enriching themselves by expansionist means. Sallust was a colossal hypocrite but his claim that the influx of cash* into the Roman economy while losing the main rival that could be painted as an existential threat (Carthage) shortcircuited the system has quite a bit going for it.
*Before the Punic wars actual cash played only a minor role. Influence and prestige rested on control over arable land.
IMO, the collapse was baked into the cake around 100BC, when Rome shifted to a system of “whoever wins this round of civil war gets to be the big cheese”. At that point, the dice were loaded in favor of stupid destructive a-holes running things, and a run of bad luck resulting in collapse was inevitable.
I think that strain existed even before that but the a-holes had to band together to keep the hoi polloi down while enriching themselves by expansionist means. Sallust was a colossal hypocrite but his claim that the influx of cash* into the Roman economy while losing the main rival that could be painted as an existential threat (Carthage) shortcircuited the system has quite a bit going for it.
*Before the Punic wars actual cash played only a minor role. Influence and prestige rested on control over arable land.
Regarding the payroll tax trump suspended today, he stated:
“If I win, I may extend and terminate,” Trump said, repeating a longtime goal but remaining silent on how he’d fund the Medicare and Social Security benefits that the 7% tax on employee income covers. Employers also pay 7.65% of their payrolls into the funds.”
The conservative movement’s long-term goals have always been, as in forever, to roll back the entire safety net going back to 1932.
No Social Security, No Medicare, No Medicaid. No nothing.
Start the shooting this evening?
Too fucking late.
Regarding the payroll tax trump suspended today, he stated:
“If I win, I may extend and terminate,” Trump said, repeating a longtime goal but remaining silent on how he’d fund the Medicare and Social Security benefits that the 7% tax on employee income covers. Employers also pay 7.65% of their payrolls into the funds.”
The conservative movement’s long-term goals have always been, as in forever, to roll back the entire safety net going back to 1932.
No Social Security, No Medicare, No Medicaid. No nothing.
Start the shooting this evening?
Too fucking late.
Racist, subhuman republicans can’t handle it when the darkie got there first:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-abruptly-ends-briefing-when-challenged-for-falsely-taking-credit-for-veterans-choice
Racism is the pre-existing condition that will never be covered.
It will be the cause of death on the conservative death certificate.
Racist, subhuman republicans can’t handle it when the darkie got there first:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-abruptly-ends-briefing-when-challenged-for-falsely-taking-credit-for-veterans-choice
Racism is the pre-existing condition that will never be covered.
It will be the cause of death on the conservative death certificate.
@wj, I could be wrong, but consider… Six years from now the western suburbs say, “Either get the western power administrations in line with what we’re trying to do with renewable energy or turn them over to us.” Nine years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “We will fight to the death to keep Yucca Mountain closed and Georgia can put all their new nuclear waste somewhere in Georgia.” Twelve years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Clean up Hanford and INL or get the hell out so that we can try.” 15 years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Either spend the tens of billions to do fire mitigation on the public lands or get the hell out so that we can.” 18 years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Either do sane things with western water policy or get the hell out so that we can.”
The Atlanta suburbs will be clueless. The Boston suburbs will be clueless. The Chicago suburbs will be clueless. Not necessarily because they don’t care, but because their political classes will be concerned with their own problems.
@wj, I could be wrong, but consider… Six years from now the western suburbs say, “Either get the western power administrations in line with what we’re trying to do with renewable energy or turn them over to us.” Nine years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “We will fight to the death to keep Yucca Mountain closed and Georgia can put all their new nuclear waste somewhere in Georgia.” Twelve years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Clean up Hanford and INL or get the hell out so that we can try.” 15 years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Either spend the tens of billions to do fire mitigation on the public lands or get the hell out so that we can.” 18 years from now the western suburbs tell the federal government, “Either do sane things with western water policy or get the hell out so that we can.”
The Atlanta suburbs will be clueless. The Boston suburbs will be clueless. The Chicago suburbs will be clueless. Not necessarily because they don’t care, but because their political classes will be concerned with their own problems.
“We will fight to the death to keep Yucca Mountain closed and Georgia can put all their new nuclear waste somewhere in Georgia.”
@Michael, things like this (as a motivation for partition) make sense. Until you consider that
1) It leaves Georgia looking for somewhere closer for their nuclear waste. Which doesn’t seem like a motivator for them to support partition. And
2) The West has a few nuclear sites of its own. Yucca Mountain may not be the ideal regional dump site. But there will have to be one somewhere in the region, partition or not.
It seems more likely that a better solution for nuclear waste will need to be found. Experience suggests that a Federal research project is more likely to succeed than multiple small state/regional projects. (Probably with lots of duplication.) Again, actually an argument against partition.
Of course, the same stupidity that produced Brexit could also strike us. But it would have to be both bigger and repeated in several regions simultaneously to get past our far higher barriers to anybody leaving.
“We will fight to the death to keep Yucca Mountain closed and Georgia can put all their new nuclear waste somewhere in Georgia.”
@Michael, things like this (as a motivation for partition) make sense. Until you consider that
1) It leaves Georgia looking for somewhere closer for their nuclear waste. Which doesn’t seem like a motivator for them to support partition. And
2) The West has a few nuclear sites of its own. Yucca Mountain may not be the ideal regional dump site. But there will have to be one somewhere in the region, partition or not.
It seems more likely that a better solution for nuclear waste will need to be found. Experience suggests that a Federal research project is more likely to succeed than multiple small state/regional projects. (Probably with lots of duplication.) Again, actually an argument against partition.
Of course, the same stupidity that produced Brexit could also strike us. But it would have to be both bigger and repeated in several regions simultaneously to get past our far higher barriers to anybody leaving.
“Either do sane things with western water policy or get the hell out so that we can.”
An example of off-kilter water policy is that of Los Angeles paying more than 25 times much for the same water as farmers in the Imperial Valley pay for it.
“Either do sane things with western water policy or get the hell out so that we can.”
An example of off-kilter water policy is that of Los Angeles paying more than 25 times much for the same water as farmers in the Imperial Valley pay for it.
“Either spend the tens of billions to do fire mitigation on the public lands or get the hell out so that we can.”
Private forests hardly ever catch fire.
“Either spend the tens of billions to do fire mitigation on the public lands or get the hell out so that we can.”
Private forests hardly ever catch fire.
An example of off-kilter water policy is that of Los Angeles paying more than 25 times much for the same water as farmers in the Imperial Valley pay for it.
But, but … it’s simply not economical to farm an area that’s naturally desert if you charge anything like market rates for water!
/sarcasm
An example of off-kilter water policy is that of Los Angeles paying more than 25 times much for the same water as farmers in the Imperial Valley pay for it.
But, but … it’s simply not economical to farm an area that’s naturally desert if you charge anything like market rates for water!
/sarcasm
The below-market water rates has allowed the Imperial Valley to become a very large basket with a lot of eggs in it.
The below-market water rates has allowed the Imperial Valley to become a very large basket with a lot of eggs in it.
Transition would be an enormous hassle. And expensive — since people there made good-faith investments based on government guarantees of cheap water.** But it would still be a sensible thing to do for the long term.
** I doubt either Michael or I want to try to explain Western water rights.
Transition would be an enormous hassle. And expensive — since people there made good-faith investments based on government guarantees of cheap water.** But it would still be a sensible thing to do for the long term.
** I doubt either Michael or I want to try to explain Western water rights.
Private forests hardly ever catch fire.
This seems rather a bold claim.
See also, pyrophitic plants.
Private forests hardly ever catch fire.
This seems rather a bold claim.
See also, pyrophitic plants.
“Private forests hardly ever catch fire.”
Privatizing forest land automatically causes it to repel lightening strikes right up to the property lines, plus for some unknown reason, the American public at large does not burn them down with untended campfires and RV exhaust sparks.
It’s magic.
It’s like public versus private golf courses. There are no lightening strikes on privately-owned gold courses. Are there?
Charles has a point to make about fire maintenance on private lands versus public, but that ain’t it.
I could make the point that private structures, homes and the like, mysteriously burn to the ground across the country in much greater numbers per capita than publicly-owned structures, but I suspect somehow I’d be eliding some obvious explanation of circumstance.
Something along the lines of “No Smoking” ordinances, I expect.
Many Americans live longer because of public financing of Medicare and Medicaid than did in the old days of “private” healthcare, by which I mean no affordable healthcare for large segments of the population.
Even now, if you are standing on a strictly surveyed border separating one state from another and are struck by lightening without benefit of health insurance you’ll want to keel over into the state that has Obamacare and secured publicly-financed Medicaid.
Probably practice that ahead of time.
Private hospital emergency rooms aren’t as crowded as publicly financed public hospital emergency rooms, but I’ll be damned if I think why, and the food, staffing, and accommodations are better in the former too, generally speaking.
Interestingly, the captive animals in public zoos are treated better than the ones in Joe Exotic’s private operations.
There are more incidents of Covid-19 infection of public beaches than on privately fenced-off beaches … and no lightening strikes on the latter either.
Reason Magazine uses fewer semi-colons than the Congressional Record.
Good luck returning the Imperial Valley back to nature by raising the price of water to market levels as we simultaneously shut down the world trade in fruits and vegetables, and nuts with tariffs.
Imagine, if the Western states tried to break away from the United States next week while Trump is President.
Think of the bill he would send to the Governors for public lands. Why, the cost of the Hoover Dam alone would break the table in Nevada.
Plus, he’d direct the proceeds into his family’s offshore accounts, bypassing the U.S. Treasury.
Well, last evening’s deadline for nationwide violence against the Republican Party has passed and I still have no gun or ammo.
%-}
“Private forests hardly ever catch fire.”
Privatizing forest land automatically causes it to repel lightening strikes right up to the property lines, plus for some unknown reason, the American public at large does not burn them down with untended campfires and RV exhaust sparks.
It’s magic.
It’s like public versus private golf courses. There are no lightening strikes on privately-owned gold courses. Are there?
Charles has a point to make about fire maintenance on private lands versus public, but that ain’t it.
I could make the point that private structures, homes and the like, mysteriously burn to the ground across the country in much greater numbers per capita than publicly-owned structures, but I suspect somehow I’d be eliding some obvious explanation of circumstance.
Something along the lines of “No Smoking” ordinances, I expect.
Many Americans live longer because of public financing of Medicare and Medicaid than did in the old days of “private” healthcare, by which I mean no affordable healthcare for large segments of the population.
Even now, if you are standing on a strictly surveyed border separating one state from another and are struck by lightening without benefit of health insurance you’ll want to keel over into the state that has Obamacare and secured publicly-financed Medicaid.
Probably practice that ahead of time.
Private hospital emergency rooms aren’t as crowded as publicly financed public hospital emergency rooms, but I’ll be damned if I think why, and the food, staffing, and accommodations are better in the former too, generally speaking.
Interestingly, the captive animals in public zoos are treated better than the ones in Joe Exotic’s private operations.
There are more incidents of Covid-19 infection of public beaches than on privately fenced-off beaches … and no lightening strikes on the latter either.
Reason Magazine uses fewer semi-colons than the Congressional Record.
Good luck returning the Imperial Valley back to nature by raising the price of water to market levels as we simultaneously shut down the world trade in fruits and vegetables, and nuts with tariffs.
Imagine, if the Western states tried to break away from the United States next week while Trump is President.
Think of the bill he would send to the Governors for public lands. Why, the cost of the Hoover Dam alone would break the table in Nevada.
Plus, he’d direct the proceeds into his family’s offshore accounts, bypassing the U.S. Treasury.
Well, last evening’s deadline for nationwide violence against the Republican Party has passed and I still have no gun or ammo.
%-}
“golf” courses, but “gold” fits too in a way.
“golf” courses, but “gold” fits too in a way.
The manifesto JDT refers to above: The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement. It’s long-ish, but you can probably read it in 15 minutes or so.
A heads up – that link is to Free Republic, so exercise caution as needed.
What is unstated in Heubeck’s paper is exactly what a “traditionalist conservative” culture would look like. He claims that all of this is about profound existential questions:
But he does not address how people ought to act, how they should perceive the world around them, and what it means to live the good life.
Maybe all of that covered by assumptions shared by him and his intended audience?
The closest he gets to an explanation of what, exactly, it is that he wants is talk about “virtue, excellence, and self-discipline”.
This he contrasts with “the materialism, hedonism, consumerism, egoism, and the cult of self-actualization which permeate modern life” and “the world-view of the leftist, which holds the unbridled ego at its center”.
?????
There is also the usual mish-mash of cultural references tossed into the big bag of “our Western Judeo-Christian tradition”. I’m always unclear to me if these guys want to be Christians or Romans. Or maybe Spartans. Jesus or Leonidas, guys. St Francis or Cicero. Pick one. You can’t have them all.
After 20 years of listening to culture warriors calling their troops to the barricades, I’m still trying to understand exactly what it is they want.
Is this (still) all about the gays and evolution and sex ed in schools?
FWIW, I’m on board with rejecting the “consumerism and egoism” of modern life. I’m not seeing that much hedonism around these days, though. Studio 54’s been closed for 40 years, man. Nobody’s doing blow anymore except Wall St suits.
I also keep waiting for the “rejection of materialism” to catch on in conservative circles, but so far no joy. If there is one thing that unites the right, it’s the absolute sanctity of personal, material property.
Maybe the reason these guys remain such an embattled minority is that people don’t actually want what they’re selling. They seem determined that we should have it, nonetheless, like it or not. And they seem more than happy to burn it all down if they can’t achieve that.
The manifesto JDT refers to above: The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement. It’s long-ish, but you can probably read it in 15 minutes or so.
A heads up – that link is to Free Republic, so exercise caution as needed.
What is unstated in Heubeck’s paper is exactly what a “traditionalist conservative” culture would look like. He claims that all of this is about profound existential questions:
But he does not address how people ought to act, how they should perceive the world around them, and what it means to live the good life.
Maybe all of that covered by assumptions shared by him and his intended audience?
The closest he gets to an explanation of what, exactly, it is that he wants is talk about “virtue, excellence, and self-discipline”.
This he contrasts with “the materialism, hedonism, consumerism, egoism, and the cult of self-actualization which permeate modern life” and “the world-view of the leftist, which holds the unbridled ego at its center”.
?????
There is also the usual mish-mash of cultural references tossed into the big bag of “our Western Judeo-Christian tradition”. I’m always unclear to me if these guys want to be Christians or Romans. Or maybe Spartans. Jesus or Leonidas, guys. St Francis or Cicero. Pick one. You can’t have them all.
After 20 years of listening to culture warriors calling their troops to the barricades, I’m still trying to understand exactly what it is they want.
Is this (still) all about the gays and evolution and sex ed in schools?
FWIW, I’m on board with rejecting the “consumerism and egoism” of modern life. I’m not seeing that much hedonism around these days, though. Studio 54’s been closed for 40 years, man. Nobody’s doing blow anymore except Wall St suits.
I also keep waiting for the “rejection of materialism” to catch on in conservative circles, but so far no joy. If there is one thing that unites the right, it’s the absolute sanctity of personal, material property.
Maybe the reason these guys remain such an embattled minority is that people don’t actually want what they’re selling. They seem determined that we should have it, nonetheless, like it or not. And they seem more than happy to burn it all down if they can’t achieve that.
What is unstated in Heubeck’s paper is exactly what a “traditionalist conservative” culture would look like. He claims that all of this is about profound existential questions:
But he does not address how people ought to act, how they should perceive the world around them, and what it means to live the good life.
Maybe all of that covered by assumptions shared by him and his intended audience?
I can tell you this, it would start with the subjection of women. It always starts with the subjection of women. Whether it turns into Gilead, or Khomenei’s Iran, depends on which precise bit of the Judeo-Christian tradition (don’t forget, Muslims too are “people of the book”, revering Abraham, Moses and Jesus as precursor prophets – in fact by tradition Abraham built the Kaaba in Mecca) they’re going for.
What is unstated in Heubeck’s paper is exactly what a “traditionalist conservative” culture would look like. He claims that all of this is about profound existential questions:
But he does not address how people ought to act, how they should perceive the world around them, and what it means to live the good life.
Maybe all of that covered by assumptions shared by him and his intended audience?
I can tell you this, it would start with the subjection of women. It always starts with the subjection of women. Whether it turns into Gilead, or Khomenei’s Iran, depends on which precise bit of the Judeo-Christian tradition (don’t forget, Muslims too are “people of the book”, revering Abraham, Moses and Jesus as precursor prophets – in fact by tradition Abraham built the Kaaba in Mecca) they’re going for.
I don’t know where to put this, since the thread about DiAngelo and White Fragility seems so long ago. But this link is a thread examining the problems inherent in the concept of “White Privilege”, as opposed to “Racism”. I don’t agree with all of it, but it is interesting, argued in good faith, and brings up some of the problems we have discussed here in the past (race v class as categories of oppression etc). It’s not long, but worth a read I think.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292071391244754944.html
I don’t know where to put this, since the thread about DiAngelo and White Fragility seems so long ago. But this link is a thread examining the problems inherent in the concept of “White Privilege”, as opposed to “Racism”. I don’t agree with all of it, but it is interesting, argued in good faith, and brings up some of the problems we have discussed here in the past (race v class as categories of oppression etc). It’s not long, but worth a read I think.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292071391244754944.html
I enjoy the sudden weight loss after a lightening strike.
I enjoy the sudden weight loss after a lightening strike.
In fact, feminism was a central target of Weyrich’s grand plan, later transformed by Weyrich amplifier, Rush Limbaugh, into “feminazi” .. yes … they are all on the same page … a new page is sent out daily for amplification by the vast right wing conspiracy and media to read from.
You think FOX and Friends comes up with this crap on their own?
Weyrich brought Phyllis Schlafly and Anita Bryant to the fore in the conservative movement.
An excellent summary of all of this can be found in Anne Nelson’s “Shadow Network”.
The prime reason why the conservative movement in Congress is not addressing the childcare crisis during this pandemic as forced infection is pushed by them via school attendance, with financial penalties for districts who refuse to host the virus and enable its spread, is to convince, force, mostly mothers who work to stay home … family values, you see.
Secondarily, the conservative movement hopes to
so frighten the American public with the possibility of their children bringing the pandemic home with them to kill their grandparents, that droves of citizens will permanently abandon the public schools, thus destroying teachers’ unions, bringing the public pension programs crashing down and ushering in crypto-Christian brainwashing in private schools, on whose playgrounds lightening never strikes and fire alarms not needed, nor mandated.
Most primary and secondary teachers are women, so again, women and their wages are targeted.
The conservative movement forces poor women of all races, but black and hispanic mothers are the real targets, to work to receive public welfare support, but at the same time wants middle class and upper class women to stay home and take care of the kids as men remain in the workforce and as God ordained the absolutist conservative order.
Lots of wiggle room there, but that is the gist of conservative manifestos going back decades.
Ann Coulter, who may well be a transitioning woman, or is it man, I get it mixed up, has remarked that allowing women the vote was roughly when all of our troubles started.
Among all of the other times someone besides white males were permitted, after much foot dragging, to fully participate in American exceptionalism.
Now, conservatives here will pooh pooh my alarmism, but the conservatives here aren’t conservatives of the card-carrying absolutist variety.
In fact, feminism was a central target of Weyrich’s grand plan, later transformed by Weyrich amplifier, Rush Limbaugh, into “feminazi” .. yes … they are all on the same page … a new page is sent out daily for amplification by the vast right wing conspiracy and media to read from.
You think FOX and Friends comes up with this crap on their own?
Weyrich brought Phyllis Schlafly and Anita Bryant to the fore in the conservative movement.
An excellent summary of all of this can be found in Anne Nelson’s “Shadow Network”.
The prime reason why the conservative movement in Congress is not addressing the childcare crisis during this pandemic as forced infection is pushed by them via school attendance, with financial penalties for districts who refuse to host the virus and enable its spread, is to convince, force, mostly mothers who work to stay home … family values, you see.
Secondarily, the conservative movement hopes to
so frighten the American public with the possibility of their children bringing the pandemic home with them to kill their grandparents, that droves of citizens will permanently abandon the public schools, thus destroying teachers’ unions, bringing the public pension programs crashing down and ushering in crypto-Christian brainwashing in private schools, on whose playgrounds lightening never strikes and fire alarms not needed, nor mandated.
Most primary and secondary teachers are women, so again, women and their wages are targeted.
The conservative movement forces poor women of all races, but black and hispanic mothers are the real targets, to work to receive public welfare support, but at the same time wants middle class and upper class women to stay home and take care of the kids as men remain in the workforce and as God ordained the absolutist conservative order.
Lots of wiggle room there, but that is the gist of conservative manifestos going back decades.
Ann Coulter, who may well be a transitioning woman, or is it man, I get it mixed up, has remarked that allowing women the vote was roughly when all of our troubles started.
Among all of the other times someone besides white males were permitted, after much foot dragging, to fully participate in American exceptionalism.
Now, conservatives here will pooh pooh my alarmism, but the conservatives here aren’t conservatives of the card-carrying absolutist variety.
Good link, GftNC. I was confused by the format at first, thinking I was reading comments on a piece I was unable to see. I figured out that it was written as a series of tweets.
Good link, GftNC. I was confused by the format at first, thinking I was reading comments on a piece I was unable to see. I figured out that it was written as a series of tweets.
“the world-view of the leftist, which holds the unbridled ego at its center.”
I think that’s a typo. It should read “the world-view of the far right/libertarian, which holds the unbridled ego at its center.”
“the world-view of the leftist, which holds the unbridled ego at its center.”
I think that’s a typo. It should read “the world-view of the far right/libertarian, which holds the unbridled ego at its center.”
I’m still trying to understand exactly what it is they want.
Is this (still) all about the gays and evolution and sex ed in schools?
Actually, it never was about those as such. Those were just examples of the moment.
What they want is really quite simple: No Change. They want the world to stay the way it was (more accurately, the way they thought it was) at some mythic time in the past. Maybe when they were kids, and blissfully unaware of reality beyond their immediate neighborhood. Maybe what their parents describe of their childhood.
The Cause du Jour will change constantly; the underlying desire driving them remains the same.
I’m still trying to understand exactly what it is they want.
Is this (still) all about the gays and evolution and sex ed in schools?
Actually, it never was about those as such. Those were just examples of the moment.
What they want is really quite simple: No Change. They want the world to stay the way it was (more accurately, the way they thought it was) at some mythic time in the past. Maybe when they were kids, and blissfully unaware of reality beyond their immediate neighborhood. Maybe what their parents describe of their childhood.
The Cause du Jour will change constantly; the underlying desire driving them remains the same.
When I have my partition conspirator hat on, I always start from the important question, “How would I convince the political class in 38 states to support the idea?” I am surprised by the number of people who miss the obvious point that not all states need to be doing it for the same reason.
I’m not a Georgian so haven’t spent much time thinking about reasons Georgians might believe they were better off in a smaller group of states. Greater say over where climate refugees from Miami get to resettle? Better chance striking a deal for access to the Tennessee River for water for Atlanta? Not having to listen to idiot westerners whine about fires and the mess at Hanford? Atlanta as the financial and political center of a country (the “biggest fish in a smaller pond” prospect)?
When I have my partition conspirator hat on, I always start from the important question, “How would I convince the political class in 38 states to support the idea?” I am surprised by the number of people who miss the obvious point that not all states need to be doing it for the same reason.
I’m not a Georgian so haven’t spent much time thinking about reasons Georgians might believe they were better off in a smaller group of states. Greater say over where climate refugees from Miami get to resettle? Better chance striking a deal for access to the Tennessee River for water for Atlanta? Not having to listen to idiot westerners whine about fires and the mess at Hanford? Atlanta as the financial and political center of a country (the “biggest fish in a smaller pond” prospect)?
Yes, what IS the process for adding a fifth head to Mount Rushmore (hat tip to Eschaton):
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/08/us/politics/kristi-noem-pence-trump.html?referringSource=articleShare
Second question: What IS the process of trucking Antifa up to the Black Hills to cancel, via high explosives, that fifth head on Mount Rushmore.
I always thought that one of the requirements for sculpting Presidential heads into Mount Rushmore was that the original human model for the head had to have contained a brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lVa7aEkNU
Yes, what IS the process for adding a fifth head to Mount Rushmore (hat tip to Eschaton):
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/08/us/politics/kristi-noem-pence-trump.html?referringSource=articleShare
Second question: What IS the process of trucking Antifa up to the Black Hills to cancel, via high explosives, that fifth head on Mount Rushmore.
I always thought that one of the requirements for sculpting Presidential heads into Mount Rushmore was that the original human model for the head had to have contained a brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lVa7aEkNU
Greater say over where climate refugees from Miami get to resettle?
Do you envision Florida and Georgia in the same region or different ones? If the same, partition would seem to actually increase the numbers of refugees arriving in Georgia. Because, after all, as separate nations, other regions wouldn’t have to let them in. And if separate, what region would Florida belong to?
Actually, that would be one of the great challenges of partition. Creating, from scratch, new national governments, complete with internal (to the old US) border controls, both for people and for goods. Not to mention infrastructures already in place, which won’t always fit neatly into the new borders.
It’s easy to talk up the benefits. But as so often, the devil will be in the details.
Greater say over where climate refugees from Miami get to resettle?
Do you envision Florida and Georgia in the same region or different ones? If the same, partition would seem to actually increase the numbers of refugees arriving in Georgia. Because, after all, as separate nations, other regions wouldn’t have to let them in. And if separate, what region would Florida belong to?
Actually, that would be one of the great challenges of partition. Creating, from scratch, new national governments, complete with internal (to the old US) border controls, both for people and for goods. Not to mention infrastructures already in place, which won’t always fit neatly into the new borders.
It’s easy to talk up the benefits. But as so often, the devil will be in the details.
Do you envision Florida and Georgia in the same region or different ones?
For that matter – does anyone envision Miami and Gainesville in the same region?
Do you envision Florida and Georgia in the same region or different ones?
For that matter – does anyone envision Miami and Gainesville in the same region?
Especially given that Miami is a major Latin American city…
Especially given that Miami is a major Latin American city…
We may have been inadequately precipitate in letting last night’s deadline pass so casually for the overthrow of our imposed theocratic authoritarian government:
“The Lord and the Founding Fathers created executive orders because of partisan bickering and divided government,” Navarro said. “That’s what we have here, but the President has taken action.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/navarro-trump-executive-orders-covid-relief-negotiationss
It sounds better in Chinese.
What are you guys doing NEXT Saturday?
We may have been inadequately precipitate in letting last night’s deadline pass so casually for the overthrow of our imposed theocratic authoritarian government:
“The Lord and the Founding Fathers created executive orders because of partisan bickering and divided government,” Navarro said. “That’s what we have here, but the President has taken action.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/navarro-trump-executive-orders-covid-relief-negotiationss
It sounds better in Chinese.
What are you guys doing NEXT Saturday?
Closer to home, I’m thinking that we have separate regions for
a) Washington, Oregon (and British Columbia)
b) Northern California (and northern Nevada)
c) Southern California (and maybe Las Vegas)
d) Arizona (and maybe Las Vegas for them as an alternative)
And that’s just the West Coast.
Closer to home, I’m thinking that we have separate regions for
a) Washington, Oregon (and British Columbia)
b) Northern California (and northern Nevada)
c) Southern California (and maybe Las Vegas)
d) Arizona (and maybe Las Vegas for them as an alternative)
And that’s just the West Coast.
the US is not going to break up.
the US is not going to break up.
The US is going to become toothless and the actual governance will happen through a political league formed by compacts between the big cities. The disconnect between urban and rural will grow. The rural areas will be ignored except for when they sabotage more coordinated action at the federal level.
We will continue to have clashes between left and right leaning revolutionary groups as a proxy war between feds and city leagues.
Not sure if this is a SF novel or an RPG I have going here.
The US is going to become toothless and the actual governance will happen through a political league formed by compacts between the big cities. The disconnect between urban and rural will grow. The rural areas will be ignored except for when they sabotage more coordinated action at the federal level.
We will continue to have clashes between left and right leaning revolutionary groups as a proxy war between feds and city leagues.
Not sure if this is a SF novel or an RPG I have going here.
That leaves only one alternative:
To be ruled by genocidal mass murderers:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/outlier
That leaves only one alternative:
To be ruled by genocidal mass murderers:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/08/outlier
the US is not going to break up.
Thank you.
the US is not going to break up.
Thank you.
Closer to home, I’m thinking that we have separate regions for…
My answer to this kind of fine partitioning proposal is usually, “Look at where Southern California gets its energy supplies.” It is in their interest to have a single government across an area that stretches as far east as New Mexico, northeast into Utah (relatively soon to Wyoming), and north as far as the Oregon/Washington border. Southern California has a big interest in how the Columbia River is managed.
If the western states are serious about all-renewable energy supplies, it is in their interest to have a single entity managing all of the current Western Interconnect plus the Bonneville and Southwestern Power Administrations. Large regional investments will have to be coordinated. There are only a couple of viable topologies for the network that shuffles power around, and the one that seems to be emerging right now would mean California and the other western states need each other.
Closer to home, I’m thinking that we have separate regions for…
My answer to this kind of fine partitioning proposal is usually, “Look at where Southern California gets its energy supplies.” It is in their interest to have a single government across an area that stretches as far east as New Mexico, northeast into Utah (relatively soon to Wyoming), and north as far as the Oregon/Washington border. Southern California has a big interest in how the Columbia River is managed.
If the western states are serious about all-renewable energy supplies, it is in their interest to have a single entity managing all of the current Western Interconnect plus the Bonneville and Southwestern Power Administrations. Large regional investments will have to be coordinated. There are only a couple of viable topologies for the network that shuffles power around, and the one that seems to be emerging right now would mean California and the other western states need each other.
the US is not going to break up.
Of course not. It’s just an amusement for people who have been sitting home too long.
The reality is that there are way too many people who really do love this country. Plus, the fanatics (left and right), who might support a break-up, generally wouldn’t agree to letting anybody get away from their plans for a perfect world. It’s the all or nothing mindset.
the US is not going to break up.
Of course not. It’s just an amusement for people who have been sitting home too long.
The reality is that there are way too many people who really do love this country. Plus, the fanatics (left and right), who might support a break-up, generally wouldn’t agree to letting anybody get away from their plans for a perfect world. It’s the all or nothing mindset.
Fumble fingers. Western Area Power Administration, not Southwestern. Despite it’s name, the Southwestern doesn’t extend any farther west than Kansas and Oklahoma.
Fumble fingers. Western Area Power Administration, not Southwestern. Despite it’s name, the Southwestern doesn’t extend any farther west than Kansas and Oklahoma.
Not to get in the way of the fun that’s being had here talking about the country splitting up (which is really annoying, but I’m trying to ignore my feelings about that), we have a huge problem in that many states have vote-by-mail (some having recently approved it in order to make voting easier, obviously a good thing). Unfortunately, Trump may be successful at screwing up the USPS so badly, that votes made by mail won’t count.
First of all, if you live in a state with in-person absentee voting at the registrar’s office, allowing you to vote early without a long line, I’m thinking that’s the best way to go to minimize Covid-19 risk, and also have your vote counted. Please pass that along, for what it’s worth. If you must vote by mail, please do it as early as possible, but voting in person might be the least risky for your vote, even though Covid is a different story.
And as long as we’re fantasizing, let’s fantasize about what we’re going to do if the election is intentionally tampered with, and we lose because of that. It has happened before in our lifetime, but we shrugged and said “well, peaceful transfer of power, blah blah blah, and maybe we should get more people to vote, blah blah blah.” We need to have a Plan B if we care at all about our country. Plan B is not “split the country up”, since 1) that’s not going to happen, and 2) if it did, there would be millions of people to whom we are saying: sucks being you.
So, let’s start thinking about it, shall we? What are we going to do?
Not to get in the way of the fun that’s being had here talking about the country splitting up (which is really annoying, but I’m trying to ignore my feelings about that), we have a huge problem in that many states have vote-by-mail (some having recently approved it in order to make voting easier, obviously a good thing). Unfortunately, Trump may be successful at screwing up the USPS so badly, that votes made by mail won’t count.
First of all, if you live in a state with in-person absentee voting at the registrar’s office, allowing you to vote early without a long line, I’m thinking that’s the best way to go to minimize Covid-19 risk, and also have your vote counted. Please pass that along, for what it’s worth. If you must vote by mail, please do it as early as possible, but voting in person might be the least risky for your vote, even though Covid is a different story.
And as long as we’re fantasizing, let’s fantasize about what we’re going to do if the election is intentionally tampered with, and we lose because of that. It has happened before in our lifetime, but we shrugged and said “well, peaceful transfer of power, blah blah blah, and maybe we should get more people to vote, blah blah blah.” We need to have a Plan B if we care at all about our country. Plan B is not “split the country up”, since 1) that’s not going to happen, and 2) if it did, there would be millions of people to whom we are saying: sucks being you.
So, let’s start thinking about it, shall we? What are we going to do?
the US is not going to break up.
Most likely not. I’m the first to admit that on this particular topic I’m way out on the lunatic fringe. But thinking about the question, “Are there conditions under which the 11 contiguous western states could become a separate country, and could those conditions occur?” is more entertaining than thinking about whether or not Mississippi and their two Senators can be fixed in my lifetime.
To sapient’s 3:35 remark on the US Mail, with this president and this Senate’s leadership I see only one way to stop the administration from fncking up the mail for the election: sue their asses in federal court and hope the SCOTUS is willing to entertain the notion that fncking up the mail while there’s a pandemic and vote-by-mail has become this common is a violation of the Voting Rights Act. I don’t hold out a whole lot of hope for that. The only real chance would seem to be Gorsuch. He’s from a vote-by-mail state, VBM is extraordinarily popular here, he still has family here that he visits, and he probably dislikes having people spit at him. It’s possible: I believe Kennedy voted to interpret “legislature” in the Constitution to include ballot initiatives because at heart he was still a California boy.
the US is not going to break up.
Most likely not. I’m the first to admit that on this particular topic I’m way out on the lunatic fringe. But thinking about the question, “Are there conditions under which the 11 contiguous western states could become a separate country, and could those conditions occur?” is more entertaining than thinking about whether or not Mississippi and their two Senators can be fixed in my lifetime.
To sapient’s 3:35 remark on the US Mail, with this president and this Senate’s leadership I see only one way to stop the administration from fncking up the mail for the election: sue their asses in federal court and hope the SCOTUS is willing to entertain the notion that fncking up the mail while there’s a pandemic and vote-by-mail has become this common is a violation of the Voting Rights Act. I don’t hold out a whole lot of hope for that. The only real chance would seem to be Gorsuch. He’s from a vote-by-mail state, VBM is extraordinarily popular here, he still has family here that he visits, and he probably dislikes having people spit at him. It’s possible: I believe Kennedy voted to interpret “legislature” in the Constitution to include ballot initiatives because at heart he was still a California boy.
I believe Oregon is the obvious lead plaintiff for a vote-by-mail lawsuit. IIRC, they don’t have an alternative to the mail ballots.
I believe Oregon is the obvious lead plaintiff for a vote-by-mail lawsuit. IIRC, they don’t have an alternative to the mail ballots.
I fully expect Trump to halt postal delivery completely on October 25 to “protect our wonderful, really, really patriotic voters from catching the Covid-19 from infected union workers.”
Postal workers who expect to return to work for the Christmas season will have to each pay an insurmountable fee to an unmarked bank account in the Caribbean somewhere.
There will NOT be a peaceful transfer of power.
What are we going to do?
Try not to get shot by murderous conservative movement militia, as you figure out what to do.
The conservative movement knows exactly what it is going to do, win or lose, the day after the election.
Violence is off the table for the Left, but not for the Right, by many means, so enjoy those pinto beans you’ve been hoarding for the Civil War.
I fully expect Trump to halt postal delivery completely on October 25 to “protect our wonderful, really, really patriotic voters from catching the Covid-19 from infected union workers.”
Postal workers who expect to return to work for the Christmas season will have to each pay an insurmountable fee to an unmarked bank account in the Caribbean somewhere.
There will NOT be a peaceful transfer of power.
What are we going to do?
Try not to get shot by murderous conservative movement militia, as you figure out what to do.
The conservative movement knows exactly what it is going to do, win or lose, the day after the election.
Violence is off the table for the Left, but not for the Right, by many means, so enjoy those pinto beans you’ve been hoarding for the Civil War.
I think that, instead of the country splitting up, there will be a devolution of federal power and influence. Nullifications of federal laws by states and localities. That’s already happening to a degree with sanctuary cities.
I think that, instead of the country splitting up, there will be a devolution of federal power and influence. Nullifications of federal laws by states and localities. That’s already happening to a degree with sanctuary cities.
the US is not going to break up.
probably not in 21 or 41 years, or maybe ever.
what the US *is* on its way to doing, is becoming increasingly incoherent.
what is this country about? it’s not that we don’t have an answer, we have too many answers, and no consensus.
the US is not going to break up.
probably not in 21 or 41 years, or maybe ever.
what the US *is* on its way to doing, is becoming increasingly incoherent.
what is this country about? it’s not that we don’t have an answer, we have too many answers, and no consensus.
Michael Cain at 3:58, thank you. I too hope it’s enough.
Michael Cain at 3:58, thank you. I too hope it’s enough.
what the US *is* on its way to doing, is becoming increasingly incoherent.
Not sure about this. Could you explain?
We have a very divided country, as we have for most of our history. Because the Union won the Civil War, we remained a Union. In the 1930’s and ’40’s, because of the Great Depression followed by the most cataclysmic war in history, the people seemed to accept the federal government as giving the country coherence – this lasted for several decades, and the country prospered and improved for the most part.
Now we’re fighting the Civil War again. Same ol’ same ol’.
No offense to anyone here, and I’m not calling out anyone as racist, but the history of dividing the country up is racist. The Civil War, obviously. Putin, who is a racist, is encouraging dividing the country up. Dividing the country up would currently hurt huge numbers of people living in places whose governments have been working to disenfranchise and exclude people of color. I object to the discussion of secession, etc., because I think the impact would affect people of color in a very negative way. I absolutely don’t think that’s the intent of the people suggesting it – I realize that there are different interests in the West, along the Northeast Corridor, in the Mid-West, in the South, etc. But, really? I think if we’re fantasizing about this, we need to stretch our thinking far enough so that we understand the impact it would have on various American citizens.
And, of course, the Trump administration isn’t where to start as the best the “United” States can do for its people.
what the US *is* on its way to doing, is becoming increasingly incoherent.
Not sure about this. Could you explain?
We have a very divided country, as we have for most of our history. Because the Union won the Civil War, we remained a Union. In the 1930’s and ’40’s, because of the Great Depression followed by the most cataclysmic war in history, the people seemed to accept the federal government as giving the country coherence – this lasted for several decades, and the country prospered and improved for the most part.
Now we’re fighting the Civil War again. Same ol’ same ol’.
No offense to anyone here, and I’m not calling out anyone as racist, but the history of dividing the country up is racist. The Civil War, obviously. Putin, who is a racist, is encouraging dividing the country up. Dividing the country up would currently hurt huge numbers of people living in places whose governments have been working to disenfranchise and exclude people of color. I object to the discussion of secession, etc., because I think the impact would affect people of color in a very negative way. I absolutely don’t think that’s the intent of the people suggesting it – I realize that there are different interests in the West, along the Northeast Corridor, in the Mid-West, in the South, etc. But, really? I think if we’re fantasizing about this, we need to stretch our thinking far enough so that we understand the impact it would have on various American citizens.
And, of course, the Trump administration isn’t where to start as the best the “United” States can do for its people.
What to do if an election is stolen again?
Riot.
No, seriously. That’s how this all works.
Take all of the fun and profit out of the Law and Order schtick. Make it cost more than the needed reforms. Then keep it up past the inevitable backlash.
What to do if an election is stolen again?
Riot.
No, seriously. That’s how this all works.
Take all of the fun and profit out of the Law and Order schtick. Make it cost more than the needed reforms. Then keep it up past the inevitable backlash.
What to do if an election is stolen again?
Riot.
Okay. Wouldn’t it be better if it were organized to riot against people other than neighborhoods? I am not against violence if that’s the only way.
What to do if an election is stolen again?
Riot.
Okay. Wouldn’t it be better if it were organized to riot against people other than neighborhoods? I am not against violence if that’s the only way.
I am not against violence if that’s the only way.
Oh, and if there’s a chance that it will work.
I am not against violence if that’s the only way.
Oh, and if there’s a chance that it will work.
And, in light of sapient’s comments at 5:19, I return to a point I have made here before. When you are playing a game with rules (which is, after all, what politics is, albeit with real stakes) all players have to agree to follow the rules. If one player decides to stop following the rules in order to “win,” then the other players have to either kick the player out of the game or find a way to persuade the player to follow rules – either by force or by negotiation.
Partition is the first of these options, but it is not the choice made by the remaining players, it’s the choice forced on them by the player who refuses to honor the rules.
Negotiation and persuasion will require concessions or reframing the nature of the rules in a new way that is mutually acceptable to all players. That requires mutual engagement and compromise and good faith and finding a way to persuade the cheater to re-engage. What parts of the current conflict are we all willing to forego in order to restore the state of play? And how do you do that without suspending the existing rules in some way? Either way, though, this necessitates a ceding of some agency to restore an imperfect, and very contingent, state of play.
Or one side finds a way to force the other side to follow the rules through compulsion and enforcement. How do you propose we squeeze the dissenters hard enough that they are forced to fall in line?
And if the dissenters refuse to engage and the rest refuse to change the rules for everyone to appease the dissenters, all that is left is either partition* or compulsion.
*Geographical, or economic, or whatever – some level of separation of societies.
And, in light of sapient’s comments at 5:19, I return to a point I have made here before. When you are playing a game with rules (which is, after all, what politics is, albeit with real stakes) all players have to agree to follow the rules. If one player decides to stop following the rules in order to “win,” then the other players have to either kick the player out of the game or find a way to persuade the player to follow rules – either by force or by negotiation.
Partition is the first of these options, but it is not the choice made by the remaining players, it’s the choice forced on them by the player who refuses to honor the rules.
Negotiation and persuasion will require concessions or reframing the nature of the rules in a new way that is mutually acceptable to all players. That requires mutual engagement and compromise and good faith and finding a way to persuade the cheater to re-engage. What parts of the current conflict are we all willing to forego in order to restore the state of play? And how do you do that without suspending the existing rules in some way? Either way, though, this necessitates a ceding of some agency to restore an imperfect, and very contingent, state of play.
Or one side finds a way to force the other side to follow the rules through compulsion and enforcement. How do you propose we squeeze the dissenters hard enough that they are forced to fall in line?
And if the dissenters refuse to engage and the rest refuse to change the rules for everyone to appease the dissenters, all that is left is either partition* or compulsion.
*Geographical, or economic, or whatever – some level of separation of societies.
Riots tend to happen in the places where the enforcers of the regime being rioted against are weakest. It would be great to riot against people or against very selected targets, but those things are where the regime concentrates its enforcement.
Riots tend to happen in the places where the enforcers of the regime being rioted against are weakest. It would be great to riot against people or against very selected targets, but those things are where the regime concentrates its enforcement.
Nullifications of federal laws by states and localities. That’s already happening to a degree with sanctuary cities.
I’m aware of “sanctuary cities” saying that they will not cooperate with ICE enforcement efforts. Which, after all, are not really their jurisdiction; enforcement of Federal laws is a Federal function, not state or local. But I’m not aware any city or state actively thwarting ICE agents trying to do their job — which is what nullification would require. Are you?
Nullifications of federal laws by states and localities. That’s already happening to a degree with sanctuary cities.
I’m aware of “sanctuary cities” saying that they will not cooperate with ICE enforcement efforts. Which, after all, are not really their jurisdiction; enforcement of Federal laws is a Federal function, not state or local. But I’m not aware any city or state actively thwarting ICE agents trying to do their job — which is what nullification would require. Are you?
Riots tend to happen in the places where the enforcers of the regime being rioted against are weakest. It would be great to riot against people or against very selected targets, but those things are where the regime concentrates its enforcement.
That’s why riots aren’t effective, so maybe riots aren’t really the solution. I’m not saying that violence isn’t a solution because sometimes it is, but I think it has to be better targeted.
As to games, I certainly think that games can help people to understand reality. But the rules have to be similar to the reality rules, so people have to understand law (reality rules, at least some of them) and other human behaviorial rules (political entities not in government, organized crime, etc.) in order to figure out the game. At least that’s the way it seems to me. Seems like a complicated game. We’re all playing it, but someone’s experience with games doesn’t necessarily translate.
So, I don’t like thinking in terms of “games.”
Riots tend to happen in the places where the enforcers of the regime being rioted against are weakest. It would be great to riot against people or against very selected targets, but those things are where the regime concentrates its enforcement.
That’s why riots aren’t effective, so maybe riots aren’t really the solution. I’m not saying that violence isn’t a solution because sometimes it is, but I think it has to be better targeted.
As to games, I certainly think that games can help people to understand reality. But the rules have to be similar to the reality rules, so people have to understand law (reality rules, at least some of them) and other human behaviorial rules (political entities not in government, organized crime, etc.) in order to figure out the game. At least that’s the way it seems to me. Seems like a complicated game. We’re all playing it, but someone’s experience with games doesn’t necessarily translate.
So, I don’t like thinking in terms of “games.”
So then how do you propose to make the other citizens who are doing unconstitutional things to follow the protocols outlined in the constitution? And how do you do that when they use their refusal to follow the constitution as a means of seizing control of the institutions that enforce the constitutional protocols? That is still the big problem at hand.
And no, games are not an analogy for government. Government is the application of game theory to the organization of societies.
So then how do you propose to make the other citizens who are doing unconstitutional things to follow the protocols outlined in the constitution? And how do you do that when they use their refusal to follow the constitution as a means of seizing control of the institutions that enforce the constitutional protocols? That is still the big problem at hand.
And no, games are not an analogy for government. Government is the application of game theory to the organization of societies.
That is still the big problem at hand.
I totally agree with this.
And because people in government aren’t doing the job of playing by the rules [following the law] the citizens who want the same rules to be enforced have to take targeted action. Riots are action against random people; not targeted action. Citizens have to organize to take targeted action against [anti-]government rulebreakers. That may involve violence. I’m not sure it’s safe or wise to set out a playbook here – maybe John Thullen is brave enough, but it involves targeting the actual perpetrators, not random shop owners. Maybe it involves a general strike (that would be a nonviolent solution, and probably the best way, although with Covid, not sure how effective since so many are out of work anyway). But, it requires an organized effort, which also requires people onboard to convince others [not Trumpers, but our people], that our tactics are necessary.
That is still the big problem at hand.
I totally agree with this.
And because people in government aren’t doing the job of playing by the rules [following the law] the citizens who want the same rules to be enforced have to take targeted action. Riots are action against random people; not targeted action. Citizens have to organize to take targeted action against [anti-]government rulebreakers. That may involve violence. I’m not sure it’s safe or wise to set out a playbook here – maybe John Thullen is brave enough, but it involves targeting the actual perpetrators, not random shop owners. Maybe it involves a general strike (that would be a nonviolent solution, and probably the best way, although with Covid, not sure how effective since so many are out of work anyway). But, it requires an organized effort, which also requires people onboard to convince others [not Trumpers, but our people], that our tactics are necessary.
I’m writing a dystopic novel here.
No riots. Pointless.
Go utterly silent. There will be a public mass presence but it must be heavily armed and disciplined, as in any demonstrator so much as breaks a window will be shot dead by fellow anti-conservative movement demonstrators.
Unshakable. I want to hear a pin drop at these demonstrations. But I want the fury of the cheated electorate and the poor to shine through at the same time, via the silent, millions of stone-faced visages standing in military readiness to topple republican fascism.
No fucking chants or banners. One speaker demanding all conservatives and republicans have 24 hours to vacate governments they are misgoverning.
Let them start the violence.
Nullification. Don’t make me puke. Republicans at the Federal and State levels are nullifying the powers of the governments closest to the people, if they are led by anyone to the left of Barry Goldwater.
But there will be a shadowy network of assassination cells throughout the country, hundreds and thousands of them highly trained and independent, to the naked eye, from each other, each with assigned targets within all aspects of the conservative movement.
They will not strike all at once. Over time. Let the suspense build among the targets.
Maybe they will commit suicide like Hermann Cain did.
A national strike.
Shut all of it down. Wall Street. All transportation.
Attend conservative churches. Steal all of the money that have stolen from their so-called parishioners.
Families members and friends in allegiance to trump will be sternly shunned.
Poison their Thanksgiving dinners. Tell the cops that were known to be imbibing bleach and other unapproved nostrums.
Find QAnon and the anonymous filth on 4Chan and 8Chan.
Terminate them. They are al Qaeda.
That’s an outline of the novel. I don’t have an ending yet, other than ham sandwiches all around afterwards as we muddle through after dispensing with pure EVIL.
I’m writing a dystopic novel here.
No riots. Pointless.
Go utterly silent. There will be a public mass presence but it must be heavily armed and disciplined, as in any demonstrator so much as breaks a window will be shot dead by fellow anti-conservative movement demonstrators.
Unshakable. I want to hear a pin drop at these demonstrations. But I want the fury of the cheated electorate and the poor to shine through at the same time, via the silent, millions of stone-faced visages standing in military readiness to topple republican fascism.
No fucking chants or banners. One speaker demanding all conservatives and republicans have 24 hours to vacate governments they are misgoverning.
Let them start the violence.
Nullification. Don’t make me puke. Republicans at the Federal and State levels are nullifying the powers of the governments closest to the people, if they are led by anyone to the left of Barry Goldwater.
But there will be a shadowy network of assassination cells throughout the country, hundreds and thousands of them highly trained and independent, to the naked eye, from each other, each with assigned targets within all aspects of the conservative movement.
They will not strike all at once. Over time. Let the suspense build among the targets.
Maybe they will commit suicide like Hermann Cain did.
A national strike.
Shut all of it down. Wall Street. All transportation.
Attend conservative churches. Steal all of the money that have stolen from their so-called parishioners.
Families members and friends in allegiance to trump will be sternly shunned.
Poison their Thanksgiving dinners. Tell the cops that were known to be imbibing bleach and other unapproved nostrums.
Find QAnon and the anonymous filth on 4Chan and 8Chan.
Terminate them. They are al Qaeda.
That’s an outline of the novel. I don’t have an ending yet, other than ham sandwiches all around afterwards as we muddle through after dispensing with pure EVIL.
That’s an outline of the novel. I don’t have an ending yet, other than ham sandwiches all around afterwards as we muddle through after dispensing with pure EVIL.
I like it. But could we make it fried tofu burgers? Ham is offensive to so many people in so many ways.
The comment, in general, is so wise.
That’s an outline of the novel. I don’t have an ending yet, other than ham sandwiches all around afterwards as we muddle through after dispensing with pure EVIL.
I like it. But could we make it fried tofu burgers? Ham is offensive to so many people in so many ways.
The comment, in general, is so wise.
Statues of these two students should be erected in every town and city center in America.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/students-get-suspended-for-posting-pictures-of-schools-crowded-halls-now-several-people-have-been-infected-2020-08-09?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
We were talking about school names the other week.
Name every other one after one or the other of these heroes.
Prosecute the admin staff who canceled them.
Statues of these two students should be erected in every town and city center in America.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/students-get-suspended-for-posting-pictures-of-schools-crowded-halls-now-several-people-have-been-infected-2020-08-09?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
We were talking about school names the other week.
Name every other one after one or the other of these heroes.
Prosecute the admin staff who canceled them.
Apparently Trump’s glorious visage has ALREADY been carved into the ample backside of Mount Rushmore.
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/04/16/giant-buttocks-found-carved-in-the-other-side-of-mount-rushmore/
It’s his best side.
They are going to place a large map of the country directly below his likeness so he can continue to shit all over America for eternity.
Apparently Trump’s glorious visage has ALREADY been carved into the ample backside of Mount Rushmore.
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/04/16/giant-buttocks-found-carved-in-the-other-side-of-mount-rushmore/
It’s his best side.
They are going to place a large map of the country directly below his likeness so he can continue to shit all over America for eternity.
because people in government aren’t doing the job of playing by the rules [following the law] the citizens who want the same rules to be enforced have to take targeted action.
I think it’s important to note that this should be “some people in government aren’t … playing by the rules”. (Unfortunately, many of them people at the top.) But the fact is, the vast majority of government employees are following the law. Hence the complaints about the “deep state”.
If the majority weren’t following the rules, we would be lost beyond hope. As it is, we still have a chance.
because people in government aren’t doing the job of playing by the rules [following the law] the citizens who want the same rules to be enforced have to take targeted action.
I think it’s important to note that this should be “some people in government aren’t … playing by the rules”. (Unfortunately, many of them people at the top.) But the fact is, the vast majority of government employees are following the law. Hence the complaints about the “deep state”.
If the majority weren’t following the rules, we would be lost beyond hope. As it is, we still have a chance.
But the fact is, the vast majority of government employees are following the law. Hence the complaints about the “deep state”.
Agree entirely. My bad.
But the fact is, the vast majority of government employees are following the law. Hence the complaints about the “deep state”.
Agree entirely. My bad.
But I’m not aware any city or state actively thwarting ICE agents trying to do their job — which is what nullification would require.
Exactly. Under current Supreme Court decisions, the cities are not practicing nullification. The federal government cannot legally require them to enforce federal laws. Nor are cities/states allowed to pass their own laws pertaining to immigration status.
But I’m not aware any city or state actively thwarting ICE agents trying to do their job — which is what nullification would require.
Exactly. Under current Supreme Court decisions, the cities are not practicing nullification. The federal government cannot legally require them to enforce federal laws. Nor are cities/states allowed to pass their own laws pertaining to immigration status.
As a former federal government employee, twice over, for relatively short durations of time, including with the once apolitical competent U.S. Census Bureau, I can testify that by and large current federal employees, pretty much across the political spectrum are appalled and frightened by the conservative movement deep state junta that has seized the reigns of abusive, harassing power across the agencies.
They are ready to cleanse the government of the vermin conservative deep state crooks and liars.
They follow the rules, which is why the conservative movement hates them and will kill them just as Timothy McVeigh did, given the chance.
As a former federal government employee, twice over, for relatively short durations of time, including with the once apolitical competent U.S. Census Bureau, I can testify that by and large current federal employees, pretty much across the political spectrum are appalled and frightened by the conservative movement deep state junta that has seized the reigns of abusive, harassing power across the agencies.
They are ready to cleanse the government of the vermin conservative deep state crooks and liars.
They follow the rules, which is why the conservative movement hates them and will kill them just as Timothy McVeigh did, given the chance.
Also, for clarification, I don’t imagine that rioting is a good solution, or an efficient solution, or a preferable solution to any problem that can be solved through negotiation.
I merely observe that most of the serious problems of representation that the US has faced which were not solved by actual war were accomplished only after a protracted period of large scale rioting involving loss of life. Most of those riots did not start as riots, but as mass demonstrations that devolved into riots after TPTB sent in their enforcers and initiated the violence (Army, National Guard, Pinkertons, etc.).
But change only came after the enforcement angle became too costly to sustain.
So “riots” is not my choice of strategy. I’m just naming the one thing short of war that has, historically, made compromise more attractive than escalating enforcement.
Also, for clarification, I don’t imagine that rioting is a good solution, or an efficient solution, or a preferable solution to any problem that can be solved through negotiation.
I merely observe that most of the serious problems of representation that the US has faced which were not solved by actual war were accomplished only after a protracted period of large scale rioting involving loss of life. Most of those riots did not start as riots, but as mass demonstrations that devolved into riots after TPTB sent in their enforcers and initiated the violence (Army, National Guard, Pinkertons, etc.).
But change only came after the enforcement angle became too costly to sustain.
So “riots” is not my choice of strategy. I’m just naming the one thing short of war that has, historically, made compromise more attractive than escalating enforcement.
And no, games are not an analogy for government. Government is the application of game theory to the organization of societies.
Okay. So, nous, I had responded to some of your comments about real history with examples of post-WWII international cooperation. Also, other stuff.
I think that with your games and interest in the Middle Ages, you [maybe – not an accusation – see this as a question] have a WWII and post-WWII knowledge gap? You’ve missed it more than once.
We’re all playing the “game”. Let’s talk about what we’re including in the rules. Law, political interests, economics, personal avarice and such. Some of us are specialists in one or the other, and are blind to some of the rest of it. Do you think you have all of the rules at your disposal?
I ask that you reply, please, because you ignored my suggestion that the United States has been willing to “share power” (and that Germany and “Nordic countries didn’t invent that concept) as was shown from history.
And no, games are not an analogy for government. Government is the application of game theory to the organization of societies.
Okay. So, nous, I had responded to some of your comments about real history with examples of post-WWII international cooperation. Also, other stuff.
I think that with your games and interest in the Middle Ages, you [maybe – not an accusation – see this as a question] have a WWII and post-WWII knowledge gap? You’ve missed it more than once.
We’re all playing the “game”. Let’s talk about what we’re including in the rules. Law, political interests, economics, personal avarice and such. Some of us are specialists in one or the other, and are blind to some of the rest of it. Do you think you have all of the rules at your disposal?
I ask that you reply, please, because you ignored my suggestion that the United States has been willing to “share power” (and that Germany and “Nordic countries didn’t invent that concept) as was shown from history.
Years ago, really a lot of years ago, maybe on C-Span late at night, I watched the snide, ruthless Grover Norquist in his tax pledge heyday and his callow sidekick, the, bowtied, prep sissy boy with the high register voice and nearly a girlish giggle and titter when Norquist became particularly aggressive in his questioning, the very young but clearly racist “Tucker” Carlson, when the latter was still sniffing out his place in the grand conservative movement grift, interview five republican primary candidates for, I think, a state legislature election.
The questions, led by Norquist, were hard and aggressive, Tax cuts forever, all had signed the pledge to drown the gummint fetus in its final week of gestation, and guns and guns guns. Each candidate, four men and one woman, was interrogated on the number and caliber of each of the guns they kept in their households, with the ones who had the fewest weapons having the fiercest Norquist eye cast at them.
My God, those five groveled. One of them broke into a flop sweat but they kissed Norquist’s brass balls, Tucker tittering demurely like Ed McMahon fluffing Carson’s audience, during that entire session.
The gist of the Norquist questioning about armaments and ammo came down to how these five filthy lickspittle conservatives were going to resist government and government’s taxation.
At another time, I witnessed Norquist answer this question: “But how will you stop the agricultural support programs”, ….. by threatening violence: “Well, we’ll have five million heavily armed farmers at our backs, won’t we.”
So any violence mentioned here, even in novelistic from, has ample precedent in the utterances of the subhuman architects of the conservative movement.
John Wilkes Booth is their spiritual father.
The Bundys are still at large, aren’t they?
There you go.
Years ago, really a lot of years ago, maybe on C-Span late at night, I watched the snide, ruthless Grover Norquist in his tax pledge heyday and his callow sidekick, the, bowtied, prep sissy boy with the high register voice and nearly a girlish giggle and titter when Norquist became particularly aggressive in his questioning, the very young but clearly racist “Tucker” Carlson, when the latter was still sniffing out his place in the grand conservative movement grift, interview five republican primary candidates for, I think, a state legislature election.
The questions, led by Norquist, were hard and aggressive, Tax cuts forever, all had signed the pledge to drown the gummint fetus in its final week of gestation, and guns and guns guns. Each candidate, four men and one woman, was interrogated on the number and caliber of each of the guns they kept in their households, with the ones who had the fewest weapons having the fiercest Norquist eye cast at them.
My God, those five groveled. One of them broke into a flop sweat but they kissed Norquist’s brass balls, Tucker tittering demurely like Ed McMahon fluffing Carson’s audience, during that entire session.
The gist of the Norquist questioning about armaments and ammo came down to how these five filthy lickspittle conservatives were going to resist government and government’s taxation.
At another time, I witnessed Norquist answer this question: “But how will you stop the agricultural support programs”, ….. by threatening violence: “Well, we’ll have five million heavily armed farmers at our backs, won’t we.”
So any violence mentioned here, even in novelistic from, has ample precedent in the utterances of the subhuman architects of the conservative movement.
John Wilkes Booth is their spiritual father.
The Bundys are still at large, aren’t they?
There you go.
I merely observe that most of the serious problems of representation that the US has faced which were not solved by actual war were accomplished only after a protracted period of large scale rioting involving loss of life.
I will offer the example of direct election of US Senators, where the power was given to the electorate (as defined then) rather than to the state legislatures and their very strong conservative filter. But the threat of a constitutional convention, which we were within a very few states of, is even scarier to the status quo than urban riots violence.
Myself, I think I would have preferred to have the convention outcome. It was a progressive era. Power was going to be pushed down.
I merely observe that most of the serious problems of representation that the US has faced which were not solved by actual war were accomplished only after a protracted period of large scale rioting involving loss of life.
I will offer the example of direct election of US Senators, where the power was given to the electorate (as defined then) rather than to the state legislatures and their very strong conservative filter. But the threat of a constitutional convention, which we were within a very few states of, is even scarier to the status quo than urban riots violence.
Myself, I think I would have preferred to have the convention outcome. It was a progressive era. Power was going to be pushed down.
But change only came after the enforcement angle became too costly to sustain.
You haven’t really connected the dots. There was a national will in the 1930’s to solve the Depression. Then, Roosevelt was popular, and not-Nazis abroad seemed the thing to support.
You’re giving a huge amount of undeserved credit to domestic unrest. It was a nothingburger.
But change only came after the enforcement angle became too costly to sustain.
You haven’t really connected the dots. There was a national will in the 1930’s to solve the Depression. Then, Roosevelt was popular, and not-Nazis abroad seemed the thing to support.
You’re giving a huge amount of undeserved credit to domestic unrest. It was a nothingburger.
sapient – my dissertation was heavily invested in historicist readings of texts from and about WWII. I’m not a WWII historian, but I have read dozens of scholarly and literary works about the conflict. I think there were about 40 of them on my MA exam lists.
Whether or not the US has chosen to share or cede power in the past is not relevant to what I am arguing here because the US was giving up power to entities that could not take that power from the US. It was a sovereign act by the US and UK as enforcing powers, not a mutual, negotiated act.
Do you believe that the segment of the right in the US is likely to choose to act as the US did for Germany or for European allies for the greater good (and against the perceived threat of the USSR)?
Do you believe that any electoral victory of any margin by The Libs will reduce the supporters of the current administration to the straits that the Axis powers were in following WWII?
I don’t see any way in which the majority of voters can gain the sort of power advantage that must exist to make this sort of solution likely.
sapient – my dissertation was heavily invested in historicist readings of texts from and about WWII. I’m not a WWII historian, but I have read dozens of scholarly and literary works about the conflict. I think there were about 40 of them on my MA exam lists.
Whether or not the US has chosen to share or cede power in the past is not relevant to what I am arguing here because the US was giving up power to entities that could not take that power from the US. It was a sovereign act by the US and UK as enforcing powers, not a mutual, negotiated act.
Do you believe that the segment of the right in the US is likely to choose to act as the US did for Germany or for European allies for the greater good (and against the perceived threat of the USSR)?
Do you believe that any electoral victory of any margin by The Libs will reduce the supporters of the current administration to the straits that the Axis powers were in following WWII?
I don’t see any way in which the majority of voters can gain the sort of power advantage that must exist to make this sort of solution likely.
You haven’t really connected the dots. There was a national will in the 1930’s to solve the Depression. Then, Roosevelt was popular, and not-Nazis abroad seemed the thing to support.
Haymarket riots.
Coeur d’Alene.
Colorado Labor Wars.
Ludlow Massacre.
Battle of Blair Mountain
Ford Massacre
Bonus Army
The Civil Rights era riots (Detroit, Watts, etc.)
Michael Cain – thanks for the example of direct election. Are we there yet with the culture wars?
You haven’t really connected the dots. There was a national will in the 1930’s to solve the Depression. Then, Roosevelt was popular, and not-Nazis abroad seemed the thing to support.
Haymarket riots.
Coeur d’Alene.
Colorado Labor Wars.
Ludlow Massacre.
Battle of Blair Mountain
Ford Massacre
Bonus Army
The Civil Rights era riots (Detroit, Watts, etc.)
Michael Cain – thanks for the example of direct election. Are we there yet with the culture wars?
It was a sovereign act by the US and UK as enforcing powers, not a mutual, negotiated act.
Isn’t that an even more significant (and benevolent, although also self-serving) act of power sharing?
Do you believe that the segment of the right in the US is likely to choose to act as the US did for Germany or for European allies for the greater good (and against the perceived threat of the USSR)?
No, because that’s the difference with the “right” and the rest of us. Right?
Do you believe that any electoral victory of any margin by The Libs will reduce the supporters of the current administration to the straits that the Axis powers were in following WWII?
Don’t know what you’re saying here. [Sorry, intellectually defunct.]
I want to fight them. Nonviolently, preferably. If violently, I don’t want it to be random attacks on my neighbors. I want it to be targeted to the people who made this happen.
It was a sovereign act by the US and UK as enforcing powers, not a mutual, negotiated act.
Isn’t that an even more significant (and benevolent, although also self-serving) act of power sharing?
Do you believe that the segment of the right in the US is likely to choose to act as the US did for Germany or for European allies for the greater good (and against the perceived threat of the USSR)?
No, because that’s the difference with the “right” and the rest of us. Right?
Do you believe that any electoral victory of any margin by The Libs will reduce the supporters of the current administration to the straits that the Axis powers were in following WWII?
Don’t know what you’re saying here. [Sorry, intellectually defunct.]
I want to fight them. Nonviolently, preferably. If violently, I don’t want it to be random attacks on my neighbors. I want it to be targeted to the people who made this happen.
Do conservative filth still want to arm the teachers?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/georgia-school-reopenings-paint-a-bleak-picture-for-the-school-year-153337845.html
Could be a lot of gunfire in them thar schools as teachers try to protect themselves from children of genocidal conservative families.
Do conservative filth still want to arm the teachers?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/georgia-school-reopenings-paint-a-bleak-picture-for-the-school-year-153337845.html
Could be a lot of gunfire in them thar schools as teachers try to protect themselves from children of genocidal conservative families.
Haymarket riots.
Coeur d’Alene.
Colorado Labor Wars.
Ludlow Massacre.
Battle of Blair Mountain
Ford Massacre
Bonus Army
The Civil Rights era riots (Detroit, Watts, etc.)
Those things happened. Mass shootings happened. Hurricanes happened. No dots.
Haymarket riots.
Coeur d’Alene.
Colorado Labor Wars.
Ludlow Massacre.
Battle of Blair Mountain
Ford Massacre
Bonus Army
The Civil Rights era riots (Detroit, Watts, etc.)
Those things happened. Mass shootings happened. Hurricanes happened. No dots.
Remember when children in “shit hole” African, South American, Asian and middle Eastern countries were enlisted and armed as unwilling troops by various ruthless murderous genocidal revolutionary movements to topple their enemies.
Trump is just Pol Pot with a luxury hotel.
Remember when children in “shit hole” African, South American, Asian and middle Eastern countries were enlisted and armed as unwilling troops by various ruthless murderous genocidal revolutionary movements to topple their enemies.
Trump is just Pol Pot with a luxury hotel.
I want to fight them. Nonviolently, preferably. If violently, I don’t want it to be random attacks on my neighbors. I want it to be targeted to the people who made this happen.
Precisely. A riot that burns out NYC or San Francisco or Boston does nothing to address the problem.
I want to fight them. Nonviolently, preferably. If violently, I don’t want it to be random attacks on my neighbors. I want it to be targeted to the people who made this happen.
Precisely. A riot that burns out NYC or San Francisco or Boston does nothing to address the problem.
sapient – what I am saying is that I find it unlikely that the people who are causing our collective problem will change their minds, and if they are willing to defy an election result to the point of using violence against the majority, then they are not going to be swayed to change by magnanimous gestures.
What would it take for them to surrender unilaterally without conditions? What mutual threat to our common existence do they acknowledge which would make them stop fighting?
We do not have uncontested control of our context. Their willingness, or lack thereof, to engage constrains us both.
sapient – what I am saying is that I find it unlikely that the people who are causing our collective problem will change their minds, and if they are willing to defy an election result to the point of using violence against the majority, then they are not going to be swayed to change by magnanimous gestures.
What would it take for them to surrender unilaterally without conditions? What mutual threat to our common existence do they acknowledge which would make them stop fighting?
We do not have uncontested control of our context. Their willingness, or lack thereof, to engage constrains us both.
Riots that burn those cities cost millionaire lobbyist assholes a lot of money and stress.
When paying the hoi polloi social welfare costs less than they are getting from hammering them with their police forces, the policies will change.
That’s the “welfare as social control” argument in a nutshell.
Riots that burn those cities cost millionaire lobbyist assholes a lot of money and stress.
When paying the hoi polloi social welfare costs less than they are getting from hammering them with their police forces, the policies will change.
That’s the “welfare as social control” argument in a nutshell.
We do not have uncontested control of our context. Their willingness, or lack thereof, to engage constrains us both.
I wish I knew you better, because I agree with so much of what you say. I can’t really continue with this now, but – your views are really valuable in what comes next, although I’m not fully in sinc.
We do not have uncontested control of our context. Their willingness, or lack thereof, to engage constrains us both.
I wish I knew you better, because I agree with so much of what you say. I can’t really continue with this now, but – your views are really valuable in what comes next, although I’m not fully in sinc.
Your 8:24, nous, I don’t get that, sorry.
Your 8:24, nous, I don’t get that, sorry.
Political scientists of the “social control” school point out that the people with “the franchise” or control of government act to protect their own property and capital. They are willing to spend a lot of money on Law & Order to protect that property and capital from those who are not in control in order to preserve their status, so long as the enforcement is getting results and does not cost so much that it eats up all of their status gains.
When the cost exceeds the gains, they go through a period of sunk cost stubbornness, then give in once it becomes clear that the situation is too costly.
Reforms are enacted or the franchise extended. The cycle begins again.
Political scientists of the “social control” school point out that the people with “the franchise” or control of government act to protect their own property and capital. They are willing to spend a lot of money on Law & Order to protect that property and capital from those who are not in control in order to preserve their status, so long as the enforcement is getting results and does not cost so much that it eats up all of their status gains.
When the cost exceeds the gains, they go through a period of sunk cost stubbornness, then give in once it becomes clear that the situation is too costly.
Reforms are enacted or the franchise extended. The cycle begins again.
I lean toward’s nous’ take on this and this op-ed is related imo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/04/bill-clintons-misunderstanding-what-stokely-carmichael-brings-black-americas-long-struggle-freedom/
Clinton’s remarks failed to comprehend the complexity of a Black freedom struggle that, despite the illusions of White people and politicians, has always been multilayered. Integrationists marched alongside black nationalists, and advocates of self-defense at times strategically joined nonviolent demonstrations. Black Americans have always carried both the political sword and shield, deploying tactics and strategies based on historical and political conditions.
I lean toward’s nous’ take on this and this op-ed is related imo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/04/bill-clintons-misunderstanding-what-stokely-carmichael-brings-black-americas-long-struggle-freedom/
Clinton’s remarks failed to comprehend the complexity of a Black freedom struggle that, despite the illusions of White people and politicians, has always been multilayered. Integrationists marched alongside black nationalists, and advocates of self-defense at times strategically joined nonviolent demonstrations. Black Americans have always carried both the political sword and shield, deploying tactics and strategies based on historical and political conditions.
When the cost exceeds the gains, they go through a period of sunk cost stubbornness, then give in once it becomes clear that the situation is too costly.
What does “give in” mean here?
It would be interesting to learn how this concept applies to the 1968 riots.
When the cost exceeds the gains, they go through a period of sunk cost stubbornness, then give in once it becomes clear that the situation is too costly.
What does “give in” mean here?
It would be interesting to learn how this concept applies to the 1968 riots.
As to the Lewis/Carmichael relationship, this interview excerpt is interesting.
As to the Lewis/Carmichael relationship, this interview excerpt is interesting.
I lived in the Washington DC suburbs in 1968, and spent two more decades there, many years working in DC. I don’t know of anything good that happened as a result of the destruction in that city. I would be happy to learn otherwise.
I lived in the Washington DC suburbs in 1968, and spent two more decades there, many years working in DC. I don’t know of anything good that happened as a result of the destruction in that city. I would be happy to learn otherwise.
This article from the Grio
https://thegrio.com/2020/07/31/clinton-dragged-stokely-carmichael-john-lewis-funeral/
Has an interesting speech by Lewis (in a tweet) at a banquet honoring Ture, which took place after the 1973 interview you quote (here’s a direct link, it was in 1998)
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4896877/user-clip-john-lewis-honors-kwame-ture
I like reading the website, good to help get out of a white perspective.
This article from the Grio
https://thegrio.com/2020/07/31/clinton-dragged-stokely-carmichael-john-lewis-funeral/
Has an interesting speech by Lewis (in a tweet) at a banquet honoring Ture, which took place after the 1973 interview you quote (here’s a direct link, it was in 1998)
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4896877/user-clip-john-lewis-honors-kwame-ture
I like reading the website, good to help get out of a white perspective.
I saw that speech while I was looking, lj, and probably should have included it. But since the occasion called for an encomium (which was no doubt sincere), it wasn’t going to be a balanced assessment. I felt that the interview excerpt was a bit more honest. Lewis seemed to believe (my take – obviously he speaks for himself) that the Black Power movement as led by Carmichael was alienating allies.
I don’t like “what if” games in analyzing history, and am not in a position to be critical of any aspect of the civil rights movement. I think Clinton would have done well to be silent on Carmichael. That said, he was invited to speak and was entitled to his view.
I saw that speech while I was looking, lj, and probably should have included it. But since the occasion called for an encomium (which was no doubt sincere), it wasn’t going to be a balanced assessment. I felt that the interview excerpt was a bit more honest. Lewis seemed to believe (my take – obviously he speaks for himself) that the Black Power movement as led by Carmichael was alienating allies.
I don’t like “what if” games in analyzing history, and am not in a position to be critical of any aspect of the civil rights movement. I think Clinton would have done well to be silent on Carmichael. That said, he was invited to speak and was entitled to his view.
Possibly of interest is an article regarding MLK’s view.
Possibly of interest is an article regarding MLK’s view.
1973>>1998 People’s opinions change. I’m not claiming any special insight into John Lewis’ opinion, but if he really didn’t like Ture, he probably wouldn’t have accepted the invitation. I never got the impression that he didn’t speak his mind.
And it’s not really a what-if game, it’s a what do we think we should do now and what we should understand may happen now. Slapping down people who suggest that violence has historically been a necessary ingredient to change seems counter-productive.
1973>>1998 People’s opinions change. I’m not claiming any special insight into John Lewis’ opinion, but if he really didn’t like Ture, he probably wouldn’t have accepted the invitation. I never got the impression that he didn’t speak his mind.
And it’s not really a what-if game, it’s a what do we think we should do now and what we should understand may happen now. Slapping down people who suggest that violence has historically been a necessary ingredient to change seems counter-productive.
Clinton didn’t say that Lewis didn’t like Carmichael. He said “There were two or three years there where the movement went a little too far toward Stokely but in the end, John Lewis prevailed.” This was an acknowledgment of a disagreement between them, which was real.
What we should do now is an important discussion. Is rioting is productive? Violence can be productive, but I think it has to be targeted.
Clinton didn’t say that Lewis didn’t like Carmichael. He said “There were two or three years there where the movement went a little too far toward Stokely but in the end, John Lewis prevailed.” This was an acknowledgment of a disagreement between them, which was real.
What we should do now is an important discussion. Is rioting is productive? Violence can be productive, but I think it has to be targeted.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33561544/belarus-contested-election-trump-2020/
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a33561544/belarus-contested-election-trump-2020/
Here’s a timely article about Watts.
The people there do not support rioting.
Here’s a timely article about Watts.
The people there do not support rioting.
Lewis seemed to believe (my take – obviously he speaks for himself) that the Black Power movement as led by Carmichael was alienating allies.
From my own memories of the time, it was.
The argument was over whether the loss of potential allies was offset by the gains of intimidating opponents. I incline to think not. But then, I wasn’t a black person in the Deep South at the time.
Lewis seemed to believe (my take – obviously he speaks for himself) that the Black Power movement as led by Carmichael was alienating allies.
From my own memories of the time, it was.
The argument was over whether the loss of potential allies was offset by the gains of intimidating opponents. I incline to think not. But then, I wasn’t a black person in the Deep South at the time.
Here’s a timely article about Watts.
The people there do not support rioting.
Protesting your economic treatment by burning down your own home definitely seems counterproductive. (Even if it is a more convenient and readily accessable target.) Sort of like protesting covid-19 restrictions by going to an event full of people without masks and bunched close together.
Here’s a timely article about Watts.
The people there do not support rioting.
Protesting your economic treatment by burning down your own home definitely seems counterproductive. (Even if it is a more convenient and readily accessable target.) Sort of like protesting covid-19 restrictions by going to an event full of people without masks and bunched close together.
But then, I wasn’t a black person in the Deep South at the time.
Stokely Carmichael was born in Trinidad, and grew up in the Bronx. During the 1968 riots, he was in Washington, DC. It’s my understanding that Carmichael advocated violence in self-defense, not riots.
But then, I wasn’t a black person in the Deep South at the time.
Stokely Carmichael was born in Trinidad, and grew up in the Bronx. During the 1968 riots, he was in Washington, DC. It’s my understanding that Carmichael advocated violence in self-defense, not riots.
At different times, different forms of protest or resistance have been effective.
What I think about the current moment is that violent resistance is not likely to be that useful.
The kind of peaceful civil disobedience employed by King is attractive for a lot of reasons, but I’m not sure this is the moment for that, either.
What we’re looking at right now is less a matter of extending civil rights to a marginalized subset of the population, and more a matter of resisting a government that lacks legitimacy.
The representatives of a minority of the country are obstructing the will of the majority. This is not a matter of the majority “trampling the rights” of the minority, because minority rights are not being trampled. It’s a matter, not of rights, but of policy.
The legitimate will of the people is being thwarted, by a minority party that is gaming the institutions that were created to protect minority rights.
“Minority” here not meaning racial minority, but a minority of the population as defined by social and political preference.
More people support policies characteristic of the (D) party than policies characteristic of the (R)’s. And the (R)’s thwart that.
Violent revolution is not a good solution here because the institutions of government per se are not inherently dysfunctional.
Peaceful resistance is not a good option because the people we would need to persuade don’t give a flying f***.
You think you’re gonna shame the Steven Millers and Mitch McConnells of the world into a change of heart?
In terms of protest, what I think would be useful would be to find ways to basically shut things down. Something like a general strike, more or less. Something that creates a tangible effect, not just something symbolic, but also something more strategic than just blowing stuff up.
A plain show of numbers would probably also be useful. Which is much harder to do in COVID times than otherwise. But if it were possible to put a few million people in the street on a regular basis, that might be useful.
But really, the solution here is to get people to vote. So even better than a protest would be direct action to make sure people can vote.
At different times, different forms of protest or resistance have been effective.
What I think about the current moment is that violent resistance is not likely to be that useful.
The kind of peaceful civil disobedience employed by King is attractive for a lot of reasons, but I’m not sure this is the moment for that, either.
What we’re looking at right now is less a matter of extending civil rights to a marginalized subset of the population, and more a matter of resisting a government that lacks legitimacy.
The representatives of a minority of the country are obstructing the will of the majority. This is not a matter of the majority “trampling the rights” of the minority, because minority rights are not being trampled. It’s a matter, not of rights, but of policy.
The legitimate will of the people is being thwarted, by a minority party that is gaming the institutions that were created to protect minority rights.
“Minority” here not meaning racial minority, but a minority of the population as defined by social and political preference.
More people support policies characteristic of the (D) party than policies characteristic of the (R)’s. And the (R)’s thwart that.
Violent revolution is not a good solution here because the institutions of government per se are not inherently dysfunctional.
Peaceful resistance is not a good option because the people we would need to persuade don’t give a flying f***.
You think you’re gonna shame the Steven Millers and Mitch McConnells of the world into a change of heart?
In terms of protest, what I think would be useful would be to find ways to basically shut things down. Something like a general strike, more or less. Something that creates a tangible effect, not just something symbolic, but also something more strategic than just blowing stuff up.
A plain show of numbers would probably also be useful. Which is much harder to do in COVID times than otherwise. But if it were possible to put a few million people in the street on a regular basis, that might be useful.
But really, the solution here is to get people to vote. So even better than a protest would be direct action to make sure people can vote.
I agree with russell at 11:46. I’m worried that votes won’t count, and what we will do then. Certainly, a general strike, meaning to shut down all supply lines, might be helpful, except that the wealthy will probably manage, and the rest of us will starve. Maybe that’s where we start though.
I agree with russell at 11:46. I’m worried that votes won’t count, and what we will do then. Certainly, a general strike, meaning to shut down all supply lines, might be helpful, except that the wealthy will probably manage, and the rest of us will starve. Maybe that’s where we start though.
violence has historically been a necessary ingredient to change
I’m not sure this is always so.
The Black Panthers, Carmichael, and Malcom X were facing a nation that could, and did, kill black people at will and at random, with impunity. Taking up arms in self-defense in that context is more than reasonable.
The labor movement at the turn of the 20th C was facing employers with private armies, frequently with an assist from police and the US military, and were facing labor conditions that not infrequently killed or maimed them. And, were facing conditions of employment that kept them just beyond starvation, and frequently made them utterly dependent on their employer for everything – not just wages, but housing and access to any kind of services.
If it’s fight or die, then fight.
It hasn’t always been fight or die. And even when it has been, sometimes other thing work better.
For most of the issues on the table right now, this isn’t a matter of fight or die. It’s a matter of fight or watch the nation descend into a banana republic.
Figure out who benefits from the nation descending into a banana republic. Make it not worth their while.
I don’t think you’re gonna accomplish that with guns, because not only do they also have guns, the nation is awash in guns, and awash in people who have spent the last 30 years or so waiting for an excuse to use them.
It won’t end well.
Figure out who is benefiting from the nation turning into a banana republic. Figure out what their vulnerabilities are, what makes them tick. And squeeze the bastards until they decide they’ll be better off not turning the country into a banana republic.
violence has historically been a necessary ingredient to change
I’m not sure this is always so.
The Black Panthers, Carmichael, and Malcom X were facing a nation that could, and did, kill black people at will and at random, with impunity. Taking up arms in self-defense in that context is more than reasonable.
The labor movement at the turn of the 20th C was facing employers with private armies, frequently with an assist from police and the US military, and were facing labor conditions that not infrequently killed or maimed them. And, were facing conditions of employment that kept them just beyond starvation, and frequently made them utterly dependent on their employer for everything – not just wages, but housing and access to any kind of services.
If it’s fight or die, then fight.
It hasn’t always been fight or die. And even when it has been, sometimes other thing work better.
For most of the issues on the table right now, this isn’t a matter of fight or die. It’s a matter of fight or watch the nation descend into a banana republic.
Figure out who benefits from the nation descending into a banana republic. Make it not worth their while.
I don’t think you’re gonna accomplish that with guns, because not only do they also have guns, the nation is awash in guns, and awash in people who have spent the last 30 years or so waiting for an excuse to use them.
It won’t end well.
Figure out who is benefiting from the nation turning into a banana republic. Figure out what their vulnerabilities are, what makes them tick. And squeeze the bastards until they decide they’ll be better off not turning the country into a banana republic.
Peaceful resistance is not a good option because the people we would need to persuade don’t give a flying f***.
You think you’re gonna shame the Steven Millers and Mitch McConnells of the world into a change of heart?
Certainly it won’t persuade those scumbags. But are they really the people you need to presuade? I’d say that the folks you need to persuade are those who have supported McConnell and/or Trump in the past, but are getting badly hurt by their actions now.
You want to find a way to get past their filters, so they shift to something different. Is peaceful resistance, in some form or another, the way to do that? I suspect it’s a better bet than non-peaceful actions. But peaceful actions which focus, not on attacking Trump and company, but on ridiculing them may be the most fruitful. See this on how it worked during the fall of the Soviet empire.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/how-beat-populists-when-facts-dont-matter/615082/
Peaceful resistance is not a good option because the people we would need to persuade don’t give a flying f***.
You think you’re gonna shame the Steven Millers and Mitch McConnells of the world into a change of heart?
Certainly it won’t persuade those scumbags. But are they really the people you need to presuade? I’d say that the folks you need to persuade are those who have supported McConnell and/or Trump in the past, but are getting badly hurt by their actions now.
You want to find a way to get past their filters, so they shift to something different. Is peaceful resistance, in some form or another, the way to do that? I suspect it’s a better bet than non-peaceful actions. But peaceful actions which focus, not on attacking Trump and company, but on ridiculing them may be the most fruitful. See this on how it worked during the fall of the Soviet empire.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/how-beat-populists-when-facts-dont-matter/615082/
the wealthy will probably manage, and the rest of us will starve.
Create alternatives to the existing supply lines so that the rest of us don’t starve.
If the wealthy want to hide in their gated communities, fine with me. At some point, they’re gonna want to leave their wealthy ghettos. And then they are vulnerable.
Not to violence, but to having to deal with other people.
No Doordash for them! Make them go to the grocery store.
But all of that takes a lot of organization. It’s do-able, but it’s not simple.
Much, much, much simpler to get people voting.
I don’t know how to address the USPS issue, but if there is one single thing to tackle right now, that is probably it.
Maybe some kind of public action focused on getting DeJoy the hell out of the USPS.
Or, something as simple as funding OT for USPS workers, from now through the end of the year.
Maybe as simple as telling Amazon to f*** off and deliver their own packages, and let USPS staff deliver mail.
But yeah, that is probably top of the list.
the wealthy will probably manage, and the rest of us will starve.
Create alternatives to the existing supply lines so that the rest of us don’t starve.
If the wealthy want to hide in their gated communities, fine with me. At some point, they’re gonna want to leave their wealthy ghettos. And then they are vulnerable.
Not to violence, but to having to deal with other people.
No Doordash for them! Make them go to the grocery store.
But all of that takes a lot of organization. It’s do-able, but it’s not simple.
Much, much, much simpler to get people voting.
I don’t know how to address the USPS issue, but if there is one single thing to tackle right now, that is probably it.
Maybe some kind of public action focused on getting DeJoy the hell out of the USPS.
Or, something as simple as funding OT for USPS workers, from now through the end of the year.
Maybe as simple as telling Amazon to f*** off and deliver their own packages, and let USPS staff deliver mail.
But yeah, that is probably top of the list.
The view of protest and social reform that I have outlined here comes out of the work of France Fox Piven and Richard Cloward. Their two main books on the subject are Regulating the Poor and Poor People’s Movements. I have read neither, but I was introduced to the concepts in my Poli Sci classes and both works have been cited thousands of times and remain in print.
I’m not surprised that the people in the neighborhoods where rioting happened remain affected, or that they are against rioting as a political act. I’m not surprised that rioting drives off potential allies. I’ve seen plenty of that amongst people I know. Riots are tragedies. But so are the histories of bigotry and exploitation that lead to the riots in the first place.
The questions are ones of net effects and unintended consequences. And those are outside of my professional sphere.
The view of protest and social reform that I have outlined here comes out of the work of France Fox Piven and Richard Cloward. Their two main books on the subject are Regulating the Poor and Poor People’s Movements. I have read neither, but I was introduced to the concepts in my Poli Sci classes and both works have been cited thousands of times and remain in print.
I’m not surprised that the people in the neighborhoods where rioting happened remain affected, or that they are against rioting as a political act. I’m not surprised that rioting drives off potential allies. I’ve seen plenty of that amongst people I know. Riots are tragedies. But so are the histories of bigotry and exploitation that lead to the riots in the first place.
The questions are ones of net effects and unintended consequences. And those are outside of my professional sphere.
I’d say that the folks you need to persuade are those who have supported McConnell and/or Trump in the past, but are getting badly hurt by their actions now.
You want to find a way to get past their filters, so they shift to something different.
I guess that’s possible in theory, but the way to do it is well beyond my personal pay grade.
I basically assume those folks are unreachable.
We’re talking about something like 30% of the population here, so to be honest IMO it’ll be more effective to just work around them.
But if you have any good ideas about how to persuade those folks, I’m all ears. No snark.
We already tried the Mudcat Saunders thing, no joy there.
I’d say that the folks you need to persuade are those who have supported McConnell and/or Trump in the past, but are getting badly hurt by their actions now.
You want to find a way to get past their filters, so they shift to something different.
I guess that’s possible in theory, but the way to do it is well beyond my personal pay grade.
I basically assume those folks are unreachable.
We’re talking about something like 30% of the population here, so to be honest IMO it’ll be more effective to just work around them.
But if you have any good ideas about how to persuade those folks, I’m all ears. No snark.
We already tried the Mudcat Saunders thing, no joy there.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/racist-rhetoric-opposing-dc-statehood-keeps-federal-government-dysfunctional
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/racist-rhetoric-opposing-dc-statehood-keeps-federal-government-dysfunctional
They will not be persuaded. They are unreachable. They have pledged to God and each other to remain that way for eternity.
“just work around them”
They are closing down all normative institutional and governmental avenues …. voting, the U.S mail, deliberately bankrupting state and local governments with pandemic costs … of working around them.
They are training the American people to completely give up on government as a means to any constructive end.
Arthur Laffer (like vampires, the same old monsters rise and suck blood again and again) is counseling Trump and Republicans to tax non-profits to hobble their efforts, closing off another normative workaround.
Natch, not the grifting, thieving crypto-Christian conservative churches.
So, yeah vote them out.
They will still be around to sabotage everything. They will not melt away after a bucket of cold water is thrown over them.
They are demons. Yeah, use their vernacular. EVIL.
They are racist, period. It doesn’t take all of them to be racist, and certainly not all of them are, but when all of the top elected honchos are racist and prejudiced against any Other besides their own white victimized butts, then all of them get credit for being fucking racists.
If we don’t vote them out, well, there are no visible alternatives but the very worst.
And the very worst is not a ham sandwich, but we’ll give that a go one last time.
They will not be persuaded. They are unreachable. They have pledged to God and each other to remain that way for eternity.
“just work around them”
They are closing down all normative institutional and governmental avenues …. voting, the U.S mail, deliberately bankrupting state and local governments with pandemic costs … of working around them.
They are training the American people to completely give up on government as a means to any constructive end.
Arthur Laffer (like vampires, the same old monsters rise and suck blood again and again) is counseling Trump and Republicans to tax non-profits to hobble their efforts, closing off another normative workaround.
Natch, not the grifting, thieving crypto-Christian conservative churches.
So, yeah vote them out.
They will still be around to sabotage everything. They will not melt away after a bucket of cold water is thrown over them.
They are demons. Yeah, use their vernacular. EVIL.
They are racist, period. It doesn’t take all of them to be racist, and certainly not all of them are, but when all of the top elected honchos are racist and prejudiced against any Other besides their own white victimized butts, then all of them get credit for being fucking racists.
If we don’t vote them out, well, there are no visible alternatives but the very worst.
And the very worst is not a ham sandwich, but we’ll give that a go one last time.
Guerilla street humor is fun:
https://twitter.com/RetiredMaybe/status/1292858428096950272
As you can see, they are oblivious.
Deliver them to oblivion.
Guerilla street humor is fun:
https://twitter.com/RetiredMaybe/status/1292858428096950272
As you can see, they are oblivious.
Deliver them to oblivion.
wj, that from the Atlantic is another good Applebaum piece. I think her international examples and comparisons are very valuable, as they were in the Complicity/collaborators article too. Just one example:
A couple of years ago, I took part in a project that looked at foreign influence in the 2017 German parliamentary elections. We found, among other things, that the overwhelming majority of Germans—left, right, and center—follow a mix of big newspapers, magazines, and television outlets, including public TV. But many of the Germans who vote for the far-right Alternative for Germany—the number hovers between 10 and 14 percent—get their news from a completely separate set of sources, including a heavy dose of Russian-funded German-language media, such as Sputnik and RT. The voters in the far-right bubble don’t just have different opinions from other Germans; they have different facts, including “facts” provided by a foreign country.
The point I am making here is not about Russia. It is about the deep gap in perceptions that now separates a tenth of German voters from the other 90 percent. Is that chasm permanent? Should the other German political parties try to reach the people in the populist bubble? But how is it possible to reach people who can’t hear you? This is not merely a question of how to convince people, how to use a better argument, or how to change minds. This is a question about how to get people to listen at all. Just shouting about “facts” will get you nowhere with those who no longer trust the sources that produce them.
Obviously, this particular extract about “facts” and “reliable sources” played into my own tedious obsession (with which you are all too familiar), and God knows we have seen an example of the same phenomenon she describes play out here. But actually, the piece is about plenty more, and at least points tentatively to constructive possibilities.
wj, that from the Atlantic is another good Applebaum piece. I think her international examples and comparisons are very valuable, as they were in the Complicity/collaborators article too. Just one example:
A couple of years ago, I took part in a project that looked at foreign influence in the 2017 German parliamentary elections. We found, among other things, that the overwhelming majority of Germans—left, right, and center—follow a mix of big newspapers, magazines, and television outlets, including public TV. But many of the Germans who vote for the far-right Alternative for Germany—the number hovers between 10 and 14 percent—get their news from a completely separate set of sources, including a heavy dose of Russian-funded German-language media, such as Sputnik and RT. The voters in the far-right bubble don’t just have different opinions from other Germans; they have different facts, including “facts” provided by a foreign country.
The point I am making here is not about Russia. It is about the deep gap in perceptions that now separates a tenth of German voters from the other 90 percent. Is that chasm permanent? Should the other German political parties try to reach the people in the populist bubble? But how is it possible to reach people who can’t hear you? This is not merely a question of how to convince people, how to use a better argument, or how to change minds. This is a question about how to get people to listen at all. Just shouting about “facts” will get you nowhere with those who no longer trust the sources that produce them.
Obviously, this particular extract about “facts” and “reliable sources” played into my own tedious obsession (with which you are all too familiar), and God knows we have seen an example of the same phenomenon she describes play out here. But actually, the piece is about plenty more, and at least points tentatively to constructive possibilities.
Comment from Thullen yesterday at 6:36 PM, on the subject of the kids who posted pictures of the Georgia school with a maskless horde in the corridor, freed from the Spam folder.
Note that the school has now been shut down again, due to a burst of covid-19 cases. Gosh, what a surprise!
Comment from Thullen yesterday at 6:36 PM, on the subject of the kids who posted pictures of the Georgia school with a maskless horde in the corridor, freed from the Spam folder.
Note that the school has now been shut down again, due to a burst of covid-19 cases. Gosh, what a surprise!
what is this country about? it’s not that we don’t have an answer, we have too many answers, and no consensus.
for quite a few people, this country is about the infrastructure (legal, economic, physical, cultural) that supports their businesses, livelihoods and their life in general.
most people simply don’t give a crap about politics, at any level. they don’t care if the Senate distorts the balance of power between large and small… zzzzz. but they do know how to navigate and utilize the US in general. they know how to live their lives in it. things are generally stable and that makes it possible to live.
ask them if they want to give up that stability and they won’t even know what you’re talking about until you start enumerating the things The US provides. and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy if you suggest getting rid of X, Y and Z.
that’s the US.
IMO.
what is this country about? it’s not that we don’t have an answer, we have too many answers, and no consensus.
for quite a few people, this country is about the infrastructure (legal, economic, physical, cultural) that supports their businesses, livelihoods and their life in general.
most people simply don’t give a crap about politics, at any level. they don’t care if the Senate distorts the balance of power between large and small… zzzzz. but they do know how to navigate and utilize the US in general. they know how to live their lives in it. things are generally stable and that makes it possible to live.
ask them if they want to give up that stability and they won’t even know what you’re talking about until you start enumerating the things The US provides. and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy if you suggest getting rid of X, Y and Z.
that’s the US.
IMO.
I read the Applebaum piece. All good.
Here is the thing. I am not one of the people who is going to be able to reach out to Trump supporters. Trust me on this.
I can talk to Trumpies without offending them, I can be clear about my point of view without getting into a poo-flinging contest. I’ve done this many times.
What is pretty much beyond my meager superpowers is changing their minds. They’re on their side, I’m on my side. The distance I have to cross to even be basically credible is so vast that it’s just not a practical exercise.
The people who could make a dent are people like McK, or Marty, or wj. People who are identifiable as conservatives, but who don’t support Trump.
I invite them to step up and speak out, to their Trump-supporting colleagues. Speak clearly, take a position. You don’t have to be obnoxious, make your points diplomatically, with respect and humor.
But take a position.
You can reach them. I can’t.
I read the Applebaum piece. All good.
Here is the thing. I am not one of the people who is going to be able to reach out to Trump supporters. Trust me on this.
I can talk to Trumpies without offending them, I can be clear about my point of view without getting into a poo-flinging contest. I’ve done this many times.
What is pretty much beyond my meager superpowers is changing their minds. They’re on their side, I’m on my side. The distance I have to cross to even be basically credible is so vast that it’s just not a practical exercise.
The people who could make a dent are people like McK, or Marty, or wj. People who are identifiable as conservatives, but who don’t support Trump.
I invite them to step up and speak out, to their Trump-supporting colleagues. Speak clearly, take a position. You don’t have to be obnoxious, make your points diplomatically, with respect and humor.
But take a position.
You can reach them. I can’t.
for quite a few people, this country is about the infrastructure (legal, economic, physical, cultural) that supports their businesses, livelihoods and their life in general.
agreed. further, I’m basically one of those people. my primary interest in government is keeping the lights on.
the only thing that makes me a “lefty” is believing (a) that infrastructure should be available to everyone equally and (b) that infrastructure should foster equitable outcomes. i.e., people who work for a living shouldn’t have to pick between prescriptions and rent. i.e., people with different skin colors shouldn’t be incarcerated at dramatically different rates.
what those folks need to realize is that (a) the infrastructure doesn’t just happen all by itself, and (b) it’s falling apart.
for quite a few people, this country is about the infrastructure (legal, economic, physical, cultural) that supports their businesses, livelihoods and their life in general.
agreed. further, I’m basically one of those people. my primary interest in government is keeping the lights on.
the only thing that makes me a “lefty” is believing (a) that infrastructure should be available to everyone equally and (b) that infrastructure should foster equitable outcomes. i.e., people who work for a living shouldn’t have to pick between prescriptions and rent. i.e., people with different skin colors shouldn’t be incarcerated at dramatically different rates.
what those folks need to realize is that (a) the infrastructure doesn’t just happen all by itself, and (b) it’s falling apart.
Most of those folks are ideologically opposed to infrastructure.
Most of those folks are ideologically opposed to infrastructure.
they like it just fine, when it supports what they want to do.
look at them chattering in terror at the idea that the police will get a dollar less this year than last.
they like it just fine, when it supports what they want to do.
look at them chattering in terror at the idea that the police will get a dollar less this year than last.
They’re opposed to “infrastructure” when it is stuff primarily (as they see it) for “those people.” When it’s for stuff that they use, they’re all for it.
From which we see that you can get their enthusiastic support if you just show them how it’s stuff that they will get some use out of.
They’re opposed to “infrastructure” when it is stuff primarily (as they see it) for “those people.” When it’s for stuff that they use, they’re all for it.
From which we see that you can get their enthusiastic support if you just show them how it’s stuff that they will get some use out of.