by JanieM
In response to Girl from the North Country’s request.
I suppose it’s futile, but I’m going to ask anyhow. Can we try to keep it to
— reportage and not bloody-minded rants about the facts being reported, and
— constructive ideas and links to useful info, actions, etc….
It’s hard enough to fight off despair even when not being clobbered over the head with it all day long.
And lo, there was a thread! The request referred to:
Janie, we do need an actual politics thread. I’ve just read that Yamiche Alcindor (the original asker of the “nasty question” about why the Pandemic Task Force had been disbanded), has tweeted that in his press conference today He Who Must Not Be Named said “”As we near the end of our historic battle” with the coronavirus and that there is now “light at the end of the tunnel.” Given that he apparently said this, and given that in his press conference yesterday he repeated Steve Hilton’s idiot talking points about “the solution mustn’t be worse than the problem” and that he would “re-open” the American economy sooner rather than later, and given the numbers you have run, it looks as if we are approaching a tremendous crisis of several different kinds (i.e. not just medically and logistically, but also where the administration might go completely against medical and scientific advice).
If this happens, and as wj and others have noted, given that the mass deaths might heavily skew Republican, we may not be far off a 25th Amendment situation. Is there some kind of mass action (emailing of congresspeople etc) that rational people should now be contemplating?
And lo, there was a thread! The request referred to:
Janie, we do need an actual politics thread. I’ve just read that Yamiche Alcindor (the original asker of the “nasty question” about why the Pandemic Task Force had been disbanded), has tweeted that in his press conference today He Who Must Not Be Named said “”As we near the end of our historic battle” with the coronavirus and that there is now “light at the end of the tunnel.” Given that he apparently said this, and given that in his press conference yesterday he repeated Steve Hilton’s idiot talking points about “the solution mustn’t be worse than the problem” and that he would “re-open” the American economy sooner rather than later, and given the numbers you have run, it looks as if we are approaching a tremendous crisis of several different kinds (i.e. not just medically and logistically, but also where the administration might go completely against medical and scientific advice).
If this happens, and as wj and others have noted, given that the mass deaths might heavily skew Republican, we may not be far off a 25th Amendment situation. Is there some kind of mass action (emailing of congresspeople etc) that rational people should now be contemplating?
First, the administration hasnt shut anything down in the first place, so him trying to start things up should prove frustrating.
Second, I asked the question yesterday if we have identified any criteria that defines we can start going back to work?
I’m not sitting here 4 months. Most of my gigs have shut down with the customer. How many lives did the depression take? Texas is shutting down from oil prices, secondary damage is not going to be solved in a month or two.
In a reasonably short amount of time we will have to pick a point on the curve as the start up point. Certainly not next week.
First, the administration hasnt shut anything down in the first place, so him trying to start things up should prove frustrating.
Second, I asked the question yesterday if we have identified any criteria that defines we can start going back to work?
I’m not sitting here 4 months. Most of my gigs have shut down with the customer. How many lives did the depression take? Texas is shutting down from oil prices, secondary damage is not going to be solved in a month or two.
In a reasonably short amount of time we will have to pick a point on the curve as the start up point. Certainly not next week.
[More kumbaya]
Marty, did you see the Dylan stuff I posted on the Returning Fire thread? If not, you might like it.
[More kumbaya]
Marty, did you see the Dylan stuff I posted on the Returning Fire thread? If not, you might like it.
Marty, I don’t know if you’ve seen references to the Imperial College London study that has been mentioned a lot. I have not followed it closely, but I think it examines a couple of scenarios for intervention, relaxation of restrictions, and more intervention as case numbers rise again. (Did someone say right here that the 1918 flu killed more people in its second wave than in its first?)
Yes, the depression cost lives. The COVID-19 pandemic will also, potentially, cost many more lives than just the people who die of COVID-19 — for example, people with other health care issues that can’t be addressed because COVID-19 is in the way. The possible knock-on cost of having large numbers of health care workers become ill won’t be minor either. The list could go on. But I don’t relish beating my head against a stone wall.
When you say “I’m not sitting here for 4 months” you sound like a pouty defiant two-year-old. But whatever. Don’t sit there! Go out and get sick and spread the illness to other people, what the heck.
Bare links:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/europe/coronavirus-imperial-college-johnson.html
Marty, I don’t know if you’ve seen references to the Imperial College London study that has been mentioned a lot. I have not followed it closely, but I think it examines a couple of scenarios for intervention, relaxation of restrictions, and more intervention as case numbers rise again. (Did someone say right here that the 1918 flu killed more people in its second wave than in its first?)
Yes, the depression cost lives. The COVID-19 pandemic will also, potentially, cost many more lives than just the people who die of COVID-19 — for example, people with other health care issues that can’t be addressed because COVID-19 is in the way. The possible knock-on cost of having large numbers of health care workers become ill won’t be minor either. The list could go on. But I don’t relish beating my head against a stone wall.
When you say “I’m not sitting here for 4 months” you sound like a pouty defiant two-year-old. But whatever. Don’t sit there! Go out and get sick and spread the illness to other people, what the heck.
Bare links:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/europe/coronavirus-imperial-college-johnson.html
Sorry, Marty. I shouldn’t be so unpleasant. But I just don’t get your thinking, unless you believe there’s some element of hoax in the notion that this will be out of control if we don’t clamp down hard.
Eh, I’ll leave you to it.
Sorry, Marty. I shouldn’t be so unpleasant. But I just don’t get your thinking, unless you believe there’s some element of hoax in the notion that this will be out of control if we don’t clamp down hard.
Eh, I’ll leave you to it.
for example, people with other health care issues that can’t be addressed because COVID-19 is in the way.
Not to mention those who cannot get their petscribed and required medication because someone who knows nothing about medicine** says (falsely) it will help with covid-19. And the people who attempt to self-medicate with one of those pseudo-cures, and manage to poison themselves. Both of which we are already seeing.
** But has a bully pulpit to fantasize from.
for example, people with other health care issues that can’t be addressed because COVID-19 is in the way.
Not to mention those who cannot get their petscribed and required medication because someone who knows nothing about medicine** says (falsely) it will help with covid-19. And the people who attempt to self-medicate with one of those pseudo-cures, and manage to poison themselves. Both of which we are already seeing.
** But has a bully pulpit to fantasize from.
I think there is no doubt doing nothing creates a tsunami. But we never get past the risk, just stretching it out. If I could draw a graph there is a point where the diminished risk of the virus meets the rising risk of 20%+ unemployment. There will likely be 2 million new unemployed next week.
I think we need to start preparing people for what’s next.
BTW, I have read parts of the Imperial study, i understand the science, we sent us and our workers home to work a week before everyone else, the science will define the point I am talking about. But the facts are that we will restart the economy before the risk is zero.
A serology test would make that easier but time is not on our side.
I think there is no doubt doing nothing creates a tsunami. But we never get past the risk, just stretching it out. If I could draw a graph there is a point where the diminished risk of the virus meets the rising risk of 20%+ unemployment. There will likely be 2 million new unemployed next week.
I think we need to start preparing people for what’s next.
BTW, I have read parts of the Imperial study, i understand the science, we sent us and our workers home to work a week before everyone else, the science will define the point I am talking about. But the facts are that we will restart the economy before the risk is zero.
A serology test would make that easier but time is not on our side.
In a reasonably short amount of time we will have to pick a point on the curve as the start up point.
What exactly does this mean? Everybody go back to work, and tough shit if you get sick and die?
There are examples of countries that have managed this well without cratering their economies.
Test aggressively. Isolate people who are sick and provide them with medical care. Trace points of contact from those people and test and isolate people they have been in contact with for two weeks to (a) see if they sick and (b) keep them from infecting anybody else. Maintain that until R0 goes below 1, for as long as it takes to keep R0 below 1.
That is apparently what works.
We dropped the ball when the WHO offered tests. We dropped the ball when we FUBARed our own tests. We dropped the ball while we waited around for that asshole in the Oval Office to get a clue and do any damned thing at all.
So, pick up the freaking ball. Tests exist, spend the damned money and acquire them, and use them. And anyone who tests positive stays home, and anybody they’ve been in contact with gets tested and if they test positive they stay home.
Pick some arbitrary point “on the curve” and lift all restrictions is going to kill a lot of people. If you want to go first, fine. If you don’t want to put your hand up, don’t ask anybody else to do so.
This country is in thrall to god-damned fucking money. It’s obscene.
In a reasonably short amount of time we will have to pick a point on the curve as the start up point.
What exactly does this mean? Everybody go back to work, and tough shit if you get sick and die?
There are examples of countries that have managed this well without cratering their economies.
Test aggressively. Isolate people who are sick and provide them with medical care. Trace points of contact from those people and test and isolate people they have been in contact with for two weeks to (a) see if they sick and (b) keep them from infecting anybody else. Maintain that until R0 goes below 1, for as long as it takes to keep R0 below 1.
That is apparently what works.
We dropped the ball when the WHO offered tests. We dropped the ball when we FUBARed our own tests. We dropped the ball while we waited around for that asshole in the Oval Office to get a clue and do any damned thing at all.
So, pick up the freaking ball. Tests exist, spend the damned money and acquire them, and use them. And anyone who tests positive stays home, and anybody they’ve been in contact with gets tested and if they test positive they stay home.
Pick some arbitrary point “on the curve” and lift all restrictions is going to kill a lot of people. If you want to go first, fine. If you don’t want to put your hand up, don’t ask anybody else to do so.
This country is in thrall to god-damned fucking money. It’s obscene.
we never get past the risk, just stretching it out.
As I understand it, “stretching it out” is precisely the point. In order to keep from overwhelming the capacity of the medical system. Because if it IS overwhelmed, a lot more people die.
If you stretch it out, the same number of people get sick eventually. But fewer of them die.
we never get past the risk, just stretching it out.
As I understand it, “stretching it out” is precisely the point. In order to keep from overwhelming the capacity of the medical system. Because if it IS overwhelmed, a lot more people die.
If you stretch it out, the same number of people get sick eventually. But fewer of them die.
780 US deaths on the JH site now. That’s a good deal worse than my seat of the pants calc last night would predict (based on 3/19 to 3/23 and onward). At that rate (585 last night to 780 tonight, and the night isn’t over), the # of deaths by 4/16 approaches 600,000.
I am holding out hope that the measures that have been put in place aren’t reflected yet, because the lag before they will show up is significant.
But other than that, wrs, as usual.
780 US deaths on the JH site now. That’s a good deal worse than my seat of the pants calc last night would predict (based on 3/19 to 3/23 and onward). At that rate (585 last night to 780 tonight, and the night isn’t over), the # of deaths by 4/16 approaches 600,000.
I am holding out hope that the measures that have been put in place aren’t reflected yet, because the lag before they will show up is significant.
But other than that, wrs, as usual.
To put it a different way, the point on the curve (to take up Marty’s formulation) that should have been chosen was about two months ago. Too bad we live in a banana republic now.
To put it a different way, the point on the curve (to take up Marty’s formulation) that should have been chosen was about two months ago. Too bad we live in a banana republic now.
Well luckily russell you got yours, the 20% of the people who will be unemployed in 6 weeks dont . At some point you have to let them go to work because a thousand dollars ain’t gonna cut it. Yeah, fucking money matters, but not to the people you complain about nearly as much as the people that dont have any.
What’s obscene is the jump to the extreme, no one wa ts millions of people to die, or be pushed into oermanent poverty.
Jesus.
Well luckily russell you got yours, the 20% of the people who will be unemployed in 6 weeks dont . At some point you have to let them go to work because a thousand dollars ain’t gonna cut it. Yeah, fucking money matters, but not to the people you complain about nearly as much as the people that dont have any.
What’s obscene is the jump to the extreme, no one wa ts millions of people to die, or be pushed into oermanent poverty.
Jesus.
Yeah, fucking money matters, but not to the people you complain about nearly as much as the people that dont have any.
If this were even remotely true, income inequality in this country wouldn’t have been worsening for the last several decades.
Yeah, fucking money matters, but not to the people you complain about nearly as much as the people that dont have any.
If this were even remotely true, income inequality in this country wouldn’t have been worsening for the last several decades.
No one wants millions of people to die, but they will if the scientists and doctors are ignored (as they were at the beginning, with terrible results).
No one wants millions of people to die, but they will if the scientists and doctors are ignored (as they were at the beginning, with terrible results).
“You got yours” — Marty’s favorite nyah nyah retort. Champion of the poor and oppressed, heh.
“You got yours” — Marty’s favorite nyah nyah retort. Champion of the poor and oppressed, heh.
Well luckily russell you got yours, the 20% of the people who will be unemployed in 6 weeks dont
I have a job where I have the good fortune to be able to work at home, and the company I work for will probably not go out of business.
So yes, I’m very lucky.
All I have to say about the “you got yours” thing other than that is (a) don’t be an asshole and (b) short of that, fuck the hell off.
If you look at what I have called out as an intelligent approach, you will not see “make everybody stay at home until they run out of money”.
And if people need to stay home because they (a) are ill or (b) are infectious or (c) have been in contact with (a) or (b) and we need them to isolate for a couple of weeks until we know if they’re (a) or (b), then we can take the HALF A FUCKING TRILLION DOLLARS that Trump wants to give to Mnuchin to dole out to his pals and use it to provide those people with unemployment insurance and medical coverage.
Right?
$500 billion-with-a-b is like 2.5% of the entire GDP of the United States. It’ll pay a lot of household bills, for a lot of people, for long enough for them to get well or long enough for us to figure out if they’re ill.
You want to send them back to work. That means some of them will die, full stop.
So don’t give me any shit about having insufficient empathy for the working man. Not now, not ever.
Well luckily russell you got yours, the 20% of the people who will be unemployed in 6 weeks dont
I have a job where I have the good fortune to be able to work at home, and the company I work for will probably not go out of business.
So yes, I’m very lucky.
All I have to say about the “you got yours” thing other than that is (a) don’t be an asshole and (b) short of that, fuck the hell off.
If you look at what I have called out as an intelligent approach, you will not see “make everybody stay at home until they run out of money”.
And if people need to stay home because they (a) are ill or (b) are infectious or (c) have been in contact with (a) or (b) and we need them to isolate for a couple of weeks until we know if they’re (a) or (b), then we can take the HALF A FUCKING TRILLION DOLLARS that Trump wants to give to Mnuchin to dole out to his pals and use it to provide those people with unemployment insurance and medical coverage.
Right?
$500 billion-with-a-b is like 2.5% of the entire GDP of the United States. It’ll pay a lot of household bills, for a lot of people, for long enough for them to get well or long enough for us to figure out if they’re ill.
You want to send them back to work. That means some of them will die, full stop.
So don’t give me any shit about having insufficient empathy for the working man. Not now, not ever.
I wrote an angry reply, but I’m not angry.
At some point we have to have a plan for restarting the economy. Pretty much everything to mitigate is in works, we would all like that to be going faster.
We need to understand where the break point of the economy is,I guarantee we dont want a depression. Other countries aren’t us but, they haven’t waited for zero risk to restart their economies.
I wrote an angry reply, but I’m not angry.
At some point we have to have a plan for restarting the economy. Pretty much everything to mitigate is in works, we would all like that to be going faster.
We need to understand where the break point of the economy is,I guarantee we dont want a depression. Other countries aren’t us but, they haven’t waited for zero risk to restart their economies.
At some point, preferably a month ago but bygones, we need a plan for managing COVID-19.
The economy will take care of itself if we figure out who is sick and treat them, and who is contagious or potentially so and isolate them until they’re not.
This is not the great depression or even the great recession. The problem is not the economy, it’s the virus. Our attention should be directed to addressing the virus.
The immediate problem is *we don’t who has or has not been exposed*. So our options are make everybody stay home, or don’t do that and wait to see who gets sick and dies.
Figure out who can infect somebody else and isolate them until they are well or the incubation period is over.
At some point, preferably a month ago but bygones, we need a plan for managing COVID-19.
The economy will take care of itself if we figure out who is sick and treat them, and who is contagious or potentially so and isolate them until they’re not.
This is not the great depression or even the great recession. The problem is not the economy, it’s the virus. Our attention should be directed to addressing the virus.
The immediate problem is *we don’t who has or has not been exposed*. So our options are make everybody stay home, or don’t do that and wait to see who gets sick and dies.
Figure out who can infect somebody else and isolate them until they are well or the incubation period is over.
“At some point we have to have a plan for restarting the economy.”
I hear that Elizabeth Warren is really good at making plans.
The orange dotard, not so much.
“At some point we have to have a plan for restarting the economy.”
I hear that Elizabeth Warren is really good at making plans.
The orange dotard, not so much.
We arent ever going to know who has it.we have 300 million people who will not put an app on their phone that let’s the government know where they are, and warns the people around them that someone near them has been infected or exposed.
South Korea solution, out.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
Too late, China solution out.
We have what we have, it seems to be followed better in most areas.
The economy will not magically crank back up after a point, the money from Congress may be too late to staunch the layoffs,the contraction will be at least 30% in the second quarter, thats more than 2.5% of gdp.
I’m not sure when Easter is as I write this but yesterday people were talking 4 months. We would not likely recover from that anytime soon. Which is what I’m sure doofus was reacting to.
We arent ever going to know who has it.we have 300 million people who will not put an app on their phone that let’s the government know where they are, and warns the people around them that someone near them has been infected or exposed.
South Korea solution, out.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
Too late, China solution out.
We have what we have, it seems to be followed better in most areas.
The economy will not magically crank back up after a point, the money from Congress may be too late to staunch the layoffs,the contraction will be at least 30% in the second quarter, thats more than 2.5% of gdp.
I’m not sure when Easter is as I write this but yesterday people were talking 4 months. We would not likely recover from that anytime soon. Which is what I’m sure doofus was reacting to.
We arent ever going to know who has it.
Then you can kiss “the economy” goodbye.
We arent ever going to know who has it.
Then you can kiss “the economy” goodbye.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/jerry-falwell-jr-trump-ally-isn-t-closing-his-virginia-n1167681
Borrow Cerberus from Hades and put him on the entrance. Enclose the campus with (electrified) barbed wire. Also dig a trench and fill it with a mixture of disinfectant and sulfuric acid.
Air drop food occasionally. Wait till the end of term, then send in troops in full hazard gear and round up the survivors, disinfect them and put them in a second quarantine for 4 weeks in some remote facility. Get ‘biblical’ on those not complying.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/jerry-falwell-jr-trump-ally-isn-t-closing-his-virginia-n1167681
Borrow Cerberus from Hades and put him on the entrance. Enclose the campus with (electrified) barbed wire. Also dig a trench and fill it with a mixture of disinfectant and sulfuric acid.
Air drop food occasionally. Wait till the end of term, then send in troops in full hazard gear and round up the survivors, disinfect them and put them in a second quarantine for 4 weeks in some remote facility. Get ‘biblical’ on those not complying.
I guarantee we dont want a depression.
I believe that a famous Anglo-American philosopher observed ‘You can’t always get what you want’. I assume the logical corollary is one often gets things that they don’t want.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
And so they did not even try? I think that is understating the extent to which doofus and others argued that there was nothing to see.
Of course, there were the other pundits who when this was all breaking said that this was a lesson to China and other places (Iraq ring a bell?), that authoritarian governments can’t handle these crises. If my Chinese was better, I could look for the pundits there now saying that this just proves what Western neo-liberalism suffers from the fatal flaw of too much freedom. As they say in the UK, the boot is on the other foot.
I hope that my tone doesn’t come off as dumping on you, I’m pleased that you agree with some of these things I wrote here. But if we go for your new normal of “better left unsaid” (and I would also note that it is an assumption that getting sick from COVID once provides continued immunity in the future, which means that this is more or less a permanent state of affairs)
Researchers do know that reinfection is an issue with the four seasonal coronaviruses that cause about 10 to 30% of common colds. These coronaviruses seem to be able to sicken people again and again, even though people have been exposed to them since childhood.
[…]
“Most respiratory viruses only give you a period of relative protection. I’m talking about a year or two. That’s what we know about the seasonal coronaviruses,” says Falsey.
So a throw up our hands approach cause it is too big to deal with, even if it doesn’t break the healthcare system as it has in Italy, means that everyone will live under the cloud of fear. I think of the rather common assumption by kids whose parents divorce that they are somehow the reason and wonder if the same thing will obtain here. ‘Don’t be silly, you didn’t kill grandpa because you didn’t wash your hands’ You can tell kids that it’s not their fault that mommy and daddy can’t stand each other, but they usually don’t listen. How are they going to handle this?
So as I said, this probably sounds harsh, but when you argue that there is nothing that can be done, you are essentially giving doofus a pass. I agree with you that we probably won’t get the economy restarted, and we are well and truely screwed, so it is probably only for the purposes of self-satisfaction that I say we told you so.
I guarantee we dont want a depression.
I believe that a famous Anglo-American philosopher observed ‘You can’t always get what you want’. I assume the logical corollary is one often gets things that they don’t want.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
And so they did not even try? I think that is understating the extent to which doofus and others argued that there was nothing to see.
Of course, there were the other pundits who when this was all breaking said that this was a lesson to China and other places (Iraq ring a bell?), that authoritarian governments can’t handle these crises. If my Chinese was better, I could look for the pundits there now saying that this just proves what Western neo-liberalism suffers from the fatal flaw of too much freedom. As they say in the UK, the boot is on the other foot.
I hope that my tone doesn’t come off as dumping on you, I’m pleased that you agree with some of these things I wrote here. But if we go for your new normal of “better left unsaid” (and I would also note that it is an assumption that getting sick from COVID once provides continued immunity in the future, which means that this is more or less a permanent state of affairs)
Researchers do know that reinfection is an issue with the four seasonal coronaviruses that cause about 10 to 30% of common colds. These coronaviruses seem to be able to sicken people again and again, even though people have been exposed to them since childhood.
[…]
“Most respiratory viruses only give you a period of relative protection. I’m talking about a year or two. That’s what we know about the seasonal coronaviruses,” says Falsey.
So a throw up our hands approach cause it is too big to deal with, even if it doesn’t break the healthcare system as it has in Italy, means that everyone will live under the cloud of fear. I think of the rather common assumption by kids whose parents divorce that they are somehow the reason and wonder if the same thing will obtain here. ‘Don’t be silly, you didn’t kill grandpa because you didn’t wash your hands’ You can tell kids that it’s not their fault that mommy and daddy can’t stand each other, but they usually don’t listen. How are they going to handle this?
So as I said, this probably sounds harsh, but when you argue that there is nothing that can be done, you are essentially giving doofus a pass. I agree with you that we probably won’t get the economy restarted, and we are well and truely screwed, so it is probably only for the purposes of self-satisfaction that I say we told you so.
If we can find half a trillion bucks for Mnuchin to hand out to corps sub rosa, then we can find money to acquire tests, masks, ventilators. And we can find the money to extend unemployment benefits and health insurance to people who’ve lost their jobs, or who we need to isolate so they don’t make other people sick.
The choice of either compel everyone to go back to work, or send everyone a thousand bucks and then make them stay home to go broke, is a false one. The fact that it’s all that this administration can come up with is damning.
Trump is not doofus. GW Bush was doofus. Trump is toxic.
If we can’t find a way to figure out who to isolate, the economy is not going to rebound. Not for a long, long time. Not until some critical mass of people are exposed and either get sick or don’t, or die or don’t.
Which, in this country, means hundreds of thousands or low millions of people die from the virus, lots of other people die because the medical system is crushed, and an order magnitude more people get pretty sick but don’t die.
All of which is going to be a huge drag on our precious economy.
If we can find half a trillion bucks for Mnuchin to hand out to corps sub rosa, then we can find money to acquire tests, masks, ventilators. And we can find the money to extend unemployment benefits and health insurance to people who’ve lost their jobs, or who we need to isolate so they don’t make other people sick.
The choice of either compel everyone to go back to work, or send everyone a thousand bucks and then make them stay home to go broke, is a false one. The fact that it’s all that this administration can come up with is damning.
Trump is not doofus. GW Bush was doofus. Trump is toxic.
If we can’t find a way to figure out who to isolate, the economy is not going to rebound. Not for a long, long time. Not until some critical mass of people are exposed and either get sick or don’t, or die or don’t.
Which, in this country, means hundreds of thousands or low millions of people die from the virus, lots of other people die because the medical system is crushed, and an order magnitude more people get pretty sick but don’t die.
All of which is going to be a huge drag on our precious economy.
Never mind, useless circular argument. Eventually you have to plan for what’s next. Not just say well we will start up again someday. If for no other reason than people are less afraid when there is a goal.
Never mind, useless circular argument. Eventually you have to plan for what’s next. Not just say well we will start up again someday. If for no other reason than people are less afraid when there is a goal.
We’ll start up again someday, for whatever value of “someday” one’s self-interest dictates.
There.
We’ll start up again someday, for whatever value of “someday” one’s self-interest dictates.
There.
go to work, “conservatives”. please. all of you, get in your F150s, go bro- it out at the construction site or the ol Gun-n-Pray. a little Darwinian filtering might do you some good.
leave me out of it.
go to work, “conservatives”. please. all of you, get in your F150s, go bro- it out at the construction site or the ol Gun-n-Pray. a little Darwinian filtering might do you some good.
leave me out of it.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
And so they did not even try? I think that is understating the extent to which doofus and others argued that there was nothing to see.
Suppose, 4 (better yet 8-10) weeks ago, the Federal government had gotten serious. Gotten testing capabilities ready. Gotten production ventilators, masks, etc. ramped up. Then we might have been in a position to avoid having to shut down. Certainly not to the across-the-board extent that we have. But that would have required accepting expert advice.
Now, as Marty says, we have to deal with where we are. But, as others have noted, we can either live with a major economic downturn (with huge efforts to moderate the effects to some extent), or live with massive death tolls. The good news is, we have experience working our way out of a major economic depression. It’s hard work, but we know what to do (whether some will admit it or not). The bad news is, we don’t know how to bring the dead back to life once they’re gone.
The federal government could not shut the country down, if they had tried four weeks ago the push back on the authoritarian GOP would have been earth shattering.
And so they did not even try? I think that is understating the extent to which doofus and others argued that there was nothing to see.
Suppose, 4 (better yet 8-10) weeks ago, the Federal government had gotten serious. Gotten testing capabilities ready. Gotten production ventilators, masks, etc. ramped up. Then we might have been in a position to avoid having to shut down. Certainly not to the across-the-board extent that we have. But that would have required accepting expert advice.
Now, as Marty says, we have to deal with where we are. But, as others have noted, we can either live with a major economic downturn (with huge efforts to moderate the effects to some extent), or live with massive death tolls. The good news is, we have experience working our way out of a major economic depression. It’s hard work, but we know what to do (whether some will admit it or not). The bad news is, we don’t know how to bring the dead back to life once they’re gone.
Now, as Marty says, we have to deal with where we are.
Look, I’ll answer his question from yesterday.
I asked the question yesterday if we have identified any criteria that defines we can start going back to work?
Trump has identified “by Easter”, which is three weeks from now. I’m not aware of any other time certain that has been proposed at the federal level.
In the state of MA, non-essential businesses and services are under order to close their physical locations until April 7. I have no idea if that will be extended at that point, or not.
Other jurisdictions probably have their own rules.
So 4 months may be recommended by some medical authorities, but it doesn’t seem like anything is enforcing that at the public policy level, at this point.
That may change, it depends on what happens over the next few weeks.
The economy is definitely stalled. I’m not sure what exactly anyone is supposed to do to “start it back up”. If it’s unsafe for people to go to work, or go shopping, or gather in public places for any reason at all, it’s going to be hard to make them do so. If we insist on making them do so by not providing sufficient support for them to stay home, then a lot of them will probably get sick.
You tell me how many people should get sick to keep the economy from stalling. If we’re going to go through the exercise of “picking a point on the curve”, we need to pick a point on that curve also.
Because that is the other variable in the equation.
Now, as Marty says, we have to deal with where we are.
Look, I’ll answer his question from yesterday.
I asked the question yesterday if we have identified any criteria that defines we can start going back to work?
Trump has identified “by Easter”, which is three weeks from now. I’m not aware of any other time certain that has been proposed at the federal level.
In the state of MA, non-essential businesses and services are under order to close their physical locations until April 7. I have no idea if that will be extended at that point, or not.
Other jurisdictions probably have their own rules.
So 4 months may be recommended by some medical authorities, but it doesn’t seem like anything is enforcing that at the public policy level, at this point.
That may change, it depends on what happens over the next few weeks.
The economy is definitely stalled. I’m not sure what exactly anyone is supposed to do to “start it back up”. If it’s unsafe for people to go to work, or go shopping, or gather in public places for any reason at all, it’s going to be hard to make them do so. If we insist on making them do so by not providing sufficient support for them to stay home, then a lot of them will probably get sick.
You tell me how many people should get sick to keep the economy from stalling. If we’re going to go through the exercise of “picking a point on the curve”, we need to pick a point on that curve also.
Because that is the other variable in the equation.
Yes russell, exactly what I said originally. We need to look at both graphs.
Yes russell, exactly what I said originally. We need to look at both graphs.
You tell me how many people should get sick to keep the economy from stalling.
Too late. The economy is already stalled. And IMHO is going to stay stalled for some months, no matter what Trump wants. My take is that his comments are half wishful thinking (which he is good at) and half attempted blame avoidance (which is a core competency). Nothing more.
At most, there will be a few states (small by population, if not in number) where the governor, et al., decide to follow Trump and drop anything like a lockdown. Followed by a huge increase in infections — for which they will turn out to have even fewer medical facilities than average. Followed by a far worse economic downturn than the rest of us end up with.
Neighboring states will get some overflow, as people from those places try desperately to find help. But the worst of it will be the states which insist that wishful thinking is better than elitist expertise.
You tell me how many people should get sick to keep the economy from stalling.
Too late. The economy is already stalled. And IMHO is going to stay stalled for some months, no matter what Trump wants. My take is that his comments are half wishful thinking (which he is good at) and half attempted blame avoidance (which is a core competency). Nothing more.
At most, there will be a few states (small by population, if not in number) where the governor, et al., decide to follow Trump and drop anything like a lockdown. Followed by a huge increase in infections — for which they will turn out to have even fewer medical facilities than average. Followed by a far worse economic downturn than the rest of us end up with.
Neighboring states will get some overflow, as people from those places try desperately to find help. But the worst of it will be the states which insist that wishful thinking is better than elitist expertise.
i really don’t get this panic about a permanently stalled economy. why on earth should the economy be permanently stalled by this?
if this takes longer than Easter (wtf), then we should just keep handing out the checks. increase unemployment coverage, pay people to dig ditches in their own back yards. whatever.
and when the threat recedes, we’ll start putting things back together.
why does any of this have to be permanent ?
i really don’t get this panic about a permanently stalled economy. why on earth should the economy be permanently stalled by this?
if this takes longer than Easter (wtf), then we should just keep handing out the checks. increase unemployment coverage, pay people to dig ditches in their own back yards. whatever.
and when the threat recedes, we’ll start putting things back together.
why does any of this have to be permanent ?
also… “get back to work, despite the risks, for the sake of the glorious economy” has quite a Soviet feel to it, nyet?
also… “get back to work, despite the risks, for the sake of the glorious economy” has quite a Soviet feel to it, nyet?
that’s a good point cleek. I think there are a lot of businesses that are worried that if it goes on too long, they are toast. And, to give some credit to Marty, if it gets to a point where we are picking up the pieces in 6 months to a year, the government is going to get to choose which industries live and which die and I have to say, not speaking for Marty, I shudder to think ot what they would use as a metric to decide.
cf this
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/absorb-these-words
that’s a good point cleek. I think there are a lot of businesses that are worried that if it goes on too long, they are toast. And, to give some credit to Marty, if it gets to a point where we are picking up the pieces in 6 months to a year, the government is going to get to choose which industries live and which die and I have to say, not speaking for Marty, I shudder to think ot what they would use as a metric to decide.
cf this
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/absorb-these-words
We need to look at both graphs.
All good.
So, my point of view on this is that we should focus our efforts on keeping people healthy, even if that is at the expense of economic recovery.
If that creates financial hardship through lost wages etc., then we should extend and increase unemployment and other forms of assistance so that people can stay home if they work in non-essential industries, until we can bring more resources online for testing and medical care.
That will delay the return of the economy to full strength, but will save many thousands, perhaps very low millions, of lives.
Delaying the return of the market to full strength will also, no doubt, impair the quality of a lot of people’s lives, but IMO less so then allowing exposure to the virus to go unchecked, or only minimally checked.
So, personally, that’s my take on it.
We need to look at both graphs.
All good.
So, my point of view on this is that we should focus our efforts on keeping people healthy, even if that is at the expense of economic recovery.
If that creates financial hardship through lost wages etc., then we should extend and increase unemployment and other forms of assistance so that people can stay home if they work in non-essential industries, until we can bring more resources online for testing and medical care.
That will delay the return of the economy to full strength, but will save many thousands, perhaps very low millions, of lives.
Delaying the return of the market to full strength will also, no doubt, impair the quality of a lot of people’s lives, but IMO less so then allowing exposure to the virus to go unchecked, or only minimally checked.
So, personally, that’s my take on it.
I think there are a lot of businesses that are worried that if it goes on too long, they are toast.
that’s probably true. but government can help avoid that. and government can help get those businesses back up. we can help businesses owners with rent, so they don’t lose their places. we can employees with lost wages. we can help people not lose their houses.
we can do this.
throwing lives away isn’t the way to go.
I think there are a lot of businesses that are worried that if it goes on too long, they are toast.
that’s probably true. but government can help avoid that. and government can help get those businesses back up. we can help businesses owners with rent, so they don’t lose their places. we can employees with lost wages. we can help people not lose their houses.
we can do this.
throwing lives away isn’t the way to go.
we can do this.
throwing lives away isn’t the way to go.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
we can do this.
throwing lives away isn’t the way to go.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“get back to work, despite the risks, for the sake of the glorious economy” has quite a Soviet feel to it, nyet?
Da!
But we must all sacrifice, for the glorious state and our glorious leader.
“get back to work, despite the risks, for the sake of the glorious economy” has quite a Soviet feel to it, nyet?
Da!
But we must all sacrifice, for the glorious state and our glorious leader.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/03/25/were-past-the-point-of-giving-trump-advice/
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/03/25/were-past-the-point-of-giving-trump-advice/
that’s probably true. but government can help avoid that. and government can help get those businesses back up. we can help businesses owners with rent, so they don’t lose their places. we can employees with lost wages. we can help people not lose their houses.
I do think we need to broaden our horizons a bit for this. I don’t see massive government interventions to safeguard the profit margins of big companies. But I think we need to recall that the owners of small businesses need the same kind of personal financial support (in addition to the items you mention for their businesses) that their employees need.
that’s probably true. but government can help avoid that. and government can help get those businesses back up. we can help businesses owners with rent, so they don’t lose their places. we can employees with lost wages. we can help people not lose their houses.
I do think we need to broaden our horizons a bit for this. I don’t see massive government interventions to safeguard the profit margins of big companies. But I think we need to recall that the owners of small businesses need the same kind of personal financial support (in addition to the items you mention for their businesses) that their employees need.
Looks like Congress has an economic package to help in the near term. It looks pretty generous, in good ways as far as I can tell.
If they can get Trump to shut the hell up, maybe we’ll get through this in mostly one piece.
Looks like Congress has an economic package to help in the near term. It looks pretty generous, in good ways as far as I can tell.
If they can get Trump to shut the hell up, maybe we’ll get through this in mostly one piece.
a trillion dollars is a thousand billion.
How many multi-billionaires do we have in America?
540, according to Forbes – and they would know. Some maybe just qualify; others have 5 billion or more.
So we take an average of 500M from each of them, which gives us half a trillion.
(The same amount the Senate was about to hand to Trump to dole out however he liked, secretly, until Democratic Senators succeeded in adding a No You Can’t to the bill.)
Half a trillion would go pretty far in keeping small businesses from going under.
a trillion dollars is a thousand billion.
How many multi-billionaires do we have in America?
540, according to Forbes – and they would know. Some maybe just qualify; others have 5 billion or more.
So we take an average of 500M from each of them, which gives us half a trillion.
(The same amount the Senate was about to hand to Trump to dole out however he liked, secretly, until Democratic Senators succeeded in adding a No You Can’t to the bill.)
Half a trillion would go pretty far in keeping small businesses from going under.
… that should be, $1B from each of them, not $500M.
Math is hard 😀
… that should be, $1B from each of them, not $500M.
Math is hard 😀
Mississippi governor overturns local measures (that were imposed) to slow spread of virus. Cities forced to revoke stay-at-home orders and restaurant closings (apart from take-away). Businesses who were preparing work-from-home procedures order employees to come back to work instead.
I say, when this is over, the guy should be sued into the poorhouse by those negatively affected. And that’s the generous option (my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment).
Mississippi governor overturns local measures (that were imposed) to slow spread of virus. Cities forced to revoke stay-at-home orders and restaurant closings (apart from take-away). Businesses who were preparing work-from-home procedures order employees to come back to work instead.
I say, when this is over, the guy should be sued into the poorhouse by those negatively affected. And that’s the generous option (my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment).
Good god, no one was handing out anything secretly. That was all bullshit politics that delayed the bill for three days.. Unless they decided that the loans were top secret they would be a matter of public record. Which is still true.
What crap.
Good god, no one was handing out anything secretly. That was all bullshit politics that delayed the bill for three days.. Unless they decided that the loans were top secret they would be a matter of public record. Which is still true.
What crap.
they would be a matter of public record
6 months after they were given.
conveniently.
they would be a matter of public record
6 months after they were given.
conveniently.
Marty, ever the champion of the poor and oppressed…billionaires. I loved those crocodile tears for the real poor people the other day.
Marty, ever the champion of the poor and oppressed…billionaires. I loved those crocodile tears for the real poor people the other day.
3.28 million new jobless claims last week on top of 1.8 m continuing.Lets let those billionaires fail, that will help.
3.28 million new jobless claims last week on top of 1.8 m continuing.Lets let those billionaires fail, that will help.
dead people don’t need unemployment benefits.
problem solved.
dead people don’t need unemployment benefits.
problem solved.
Lets let those billionaires fail, that will help.
It very well might. Part of the reason we’ve turned into a banana republic is the rapaciousness of the people at the top, and the snowballing effect of greed for more, ever more, for the few, ever fewer.
Somehow I don’t think we’d be worse off if the most rapacious of the billionaire / entrepreneur class ended up half as rich, and the people on the bottom got better wages, better health care, had money to spend in “the economy.” That is, TP’s version of “the economy.”
If that little snake Zuckerberg “failed,” I’d throw a party.
Lets let those billionaires fail, that will help.
It very well might. Part of the reason we’ve turned into a banana republic is the rapaciousness of the people at the top, and the snowballing effect of greed for more, ever more, for the few, ever fewer.
Somehow I don’t think we’d be worse off if the most rapacious of the billionaire / entrepreneur class ended up half as rich, and the people on the bottom got better wages, better health care, had money to spend in “the economy.” That is, TP’s version of “the economy.”
If that little snake Zuckerberg “failed,” I’d throw a party.
from Twitter: “This pandemic is like an infomercial for a wealth tax”
from Twitter: “This pandemic is like an infomercial for a wealth tax”
The playbook.
Please distribute widely. This is what was known had to be done, but wasn’t done. These people are murderers.
The playbook.
Please distribute widely. This is what was known had to be done, but wasn’t done. These people are murderers.
Or Mnuchin,for another example.
He could fail all the way to Hades and the country wouldn’t be a whit worse off. In fact….
Or Mnuchin,for another example.
He could fail all the way to Hades and the country wouldn’t be a whit worse off. In fact….
N.b. there are two Mnuchin links. Just as a little sampler.
N.b. there are two Mnuchin links. Just as a little sampler.
Marty, you have used the lie Deep State here on at least one occasion., in the manner of the right wing, Further, you are affiliated, loosely according to your mood as far as I can tell and as all conservatives make a habit of, a line of ideological thinking that government by its very nature, despite being elected by those of us who vote, is at the very best non-transparent, secretive, and venally so in its motivations toward your tax dollars, not to mention dishonest, incompetent (l’m still getting fucking mail, McKinney, make it stop!), prone to theft, slavery and any number of jackbooted sins and crimes against the body politic.
Now, you tell us differently, while the most vile, lying, theiving political monster in our Nation’s history and his minions (there’s another word easily copped from the conservative lexicon) stand in front of us daily and spew the most concentrated line of bullshit from their pie holes.
So Casey may use the word “secret” without credible bwa-ha-ha admonition from you.
That said, get through this thing with with your health and well-being intact.
As to Zuckerberg, I wish I had been his college roommate when he first uttered the words “There is no such thing as privacy”. He’s another arrogant twit like Trump who no one thought to punch his face in, from which they concluded that fucking the world was their birthright.
Have we noticed finally that today’s conservatives, the alleged heirs to the likes of Edmund Burke and William F. Buckley, who stood athwart any sort of change and yelled “No!”, get sadistic pleasure right down in their “animal spirited” gonads from disrupting our worlds without our permission.
Marty, you have used the lie Deep State here on at least one occasion., in the manner of the right wing, Further, you are affiliated, loosely according to your mood as far as I can tell and as all conservatives make a habit of, a line of ideological thinking that government by its very nature, despite being elected by those of us who vote, is at the very best non-transparent, secretive, and venally so in its motivations toward your tax dollars, not to mention dishonest, incompetent (l’m still getting fucking mail, McKinney, make it stop!), prone to theft, slavery and any number of jackbooted sins and crimes against the body politic.
Now, you tell us differently, while the most vile, lying, theiving political monster in our Nation’s history and his minions (there’s another word easily copped from the conservative lexicon) stand in front of us daily and spew the most concentrated line of bullshit from their pie holes.
So Casey may use the word “secret” without credible bwa-ha-ha admonition from you.
That said, get through this thing with with your health and well-being intact.
As to Zuckerberg, I wish I had been his college roommate when he first uttered the words “There is no such thing as privacy”. He’s another arrogant twit like Trump who no one thought to punch his face in, from which they concluded that fucking the world was their birthright.
Have we noticed finally that today’s conservatives, the alleged heirs to the likes of Edmund Burke and William F. Buckley, who stood athwart any sort of change and yelled “No!”, get sadistic pleasure right down in their “animal spirited” gonads from disrupting our worlds without our permission.
Good god, no one was handing out anything secretly.
My understanding is this: the administration’s original was that money could be lent and the recipient not disclosed for up to 6 months. Because lending the money could be seen as an indication of financial weakness on the part of the recipient.
Do you know otherwise?
I will also note that it might be of interest to potential investors to know that the corp was receiving federal emergency loan money. Funny times we live in.
3.28 million new jobless claims last week on top of 1.8 m continuing
Which is why the current intent is to support people who are out of work with increased and extended unemployment and other benefits.
Should they be so inclined, the billionaires could help by paying for some of that. That’s what taxes do.
This is of interest, and lets us play the “where on the curve” game through the magic of interactive statistical graphics.
Kristof recommends 60 days. That seems like a reasonable balance between not doing irreparable damage to the economy, vs chasing increasingly small gains in public health and safety.
Let’s just do that. If we get 30 days in and we make much better progress than expected, we can always relax restrictions earlier than planned. You can’t really go the other way – once they’re relaxed, the virus is free to spread, and you can’t put that genie back in the bottle.
We should have done this a month ago. Now is better than never.
Trump won’t do this, ever. If Congress can’t make it happen, states should do it.
Call you governor.
Good god, no one was handing out anything secretly.
My understanding is this: the administration’s original was that money could be lent and the recipient not disclosed for up to 6 months. Because lending the money could be seen as an indication of financial weakness on the part of the recipient.
Do you know otherwise?
I will also note that it might be of interest to potential investors to know that the corp was receiving federal emergency loan money. Funny times we live in.
3.28 million new jobless claims last week on top of 1.8 m continuing
Which is why the current intent is to support people who are out of work with increased and extended unemployment and other benefits.
Should they be so inclined, the billionaires could help by paying for some of that. That’s what taxes do.
This is of interest, and lets us play the “where on the curve” game through the magic of interactive statistical graphics.
Kristof recommends 60 days. That seems like a reasonable balance between not doing irreparable damage to the economy, vs chasing increasingly small gains in public health and safety.
Let’s just do that. If we get 30 days in and we make much better progress than expected, we can always relax restrictions earlier than planned. You can’t really go the other way – once they’re relaxed, the virus is free to spread, and you can’t put that genie back in the bottle.
We should have done this a month ago. Now is better than never.
Trump won’t do this, ever. If Congress can’t make it happen, states should do it.
Call you governor.
We won!
https://digbysblog.net/2020/03/perversity-explained/
We won!
https://digbysblog.net/2020/03/perversity-explained/
I will also note that it might be of interest to potential investors to know that the corp was receiving federal emergency loan money. Funny times we live in.
Markets are supposed to work ideally when actors have complete and perfect information, right? It seems like free-marketeers remember the lessons from the econ classes they never took on an à la carte basis.
I will also note that it might be of interest to potential investors to know that the corp was receiving federal emergency loan money. Funny times we live in.
Markets are supposed to work ideally when actors have complete and perfect information, right? It seems like free-marketeers remember the lessons from the econ classes they never took on an à la carte basis.
my suggestion is that we let the virus decide when it’s safe for us to all get back to normal. since it’s probably not going to follow any schedule we set for it.
my suggestion is that we let the virus decide when it’s safe for us to all get back to normal. since it’s probably not going to follow any schedule we set for it.
Q: How do you become a millionaire in the stock market?
A: You start with a billion dollars.
It’s an old joke, but it may help explain this to Marty: “capital” is still “capital” even when it is NOT concentrated in a very few hands.
The billionaire “goes under” by buying high and selling low. Now consider the people on the other side of those transactions. They could be billionaires too, of course, but they could also be (gasp!) ordinary proles whose retirement accounts got a little fatter at the billionaire’s expense. Some of the billionaire’s “wealth” became their “wealth”. If that “wealth” was ownership of some on-going business (a hotel chain, a software company, a baseball team, whatever) why should that business not continue to on-go just because some of its ownership changed hands?
Unless I have been grossly misinformed, ownership changing hands happens millions of times every day — it’s called stock trading on the NYSE, Nasdaq, and so on. The nation’s chickens continue to lay eggs despite all this hand-changing. Job consumers are still needed to collect, package, and distribute the eggs. Because you make omelettes with eggs, not dollars. At the risk of pedantry, “eggs” is a metaphor; read it as “goodsandservices” if you prefer.
So, shorter me: billionaires “going under” is NOT THE SAME as The Economy “going under”.
–TP
Q: How do you become a millionaire in the stock market?
A: You start with a billion dollars.
It’s an old joke, but it may help explain this to Marty: “capital” is still “capital” even when it is NOT concentrated in a very few hands.
The billionaire “goes under” by buying high and selling low. Now consider the people on the other side of those transactions. They could be billionaires too, of course, but they could also be (gasp!) ordinary proles whose retirement accounts got a little fatter at the billionaire’s expense. Some of the billionaire’s “wealth” became their “wealth”. If that “wealth” was ownership of some on-going business (a hotel chain, a software company, a baseball team, whatever) why should that business not continue to on-go just because some of its ownership changed hands?
Unless I have been grossly misinformed, ownership changing hands happens millions of times every day — it’s called stock trading on the NYSE, Nasdaq, and so on. The nation’s chickens continue to lay eggs despite all this hand-changing. Job consumers are still needed to collect, package, and distribute the eggs. Because you make omelettes with eggs, not dollars. At the risk of pedantry, “eggs” is a metaphor; read it as “goodsandservices” if you prefer.
So, shorter me: billionaires “going under” is NOT THE SAME as The Economy “going under”.
–TP
I say, when this is over, the guy should be sued into the poorhouse by those negatively affected. And that’s the generous option (my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment).
We got into a discussion of this on the weekly conference call at work. One suggestion floated: can you sue someone (for example the governor) for wrongful death in a case like this? Interesting thought.
I say, when this is over, the guy should be sued into the poorhouse by those negatively affected. And that’s the generous option (my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment).
We got into a discussion of this on the weekly conference call at work. One suggestion floated: can you sue someone (for example the governor) for wrongful death in a case like this? Interesting thought.
My understanding is this: the administration’s original was that money could be lent and the recipient not disclosed for up to 6 months. Because lending the money could be seen as an indication of financial weakness on the part of the recipient.
Are you sure? Because I thought the reason was to conveniently put the disclosure date after the election. After all, then it no longer matters — to Trump or to the Senators pushing for it.
My understanding is this: the administration’s original was that money could be lent and the recipient not disclosed for up to 6 months. Because lending the money could be seen as an indication of financial weakness on the part of the recipient.
Are you sure? Because I thought the reason was to conveniently put the disclosure date after the election. After all, then it no longer matters — to Trump or to the Senators pushing for it.
can you sue someone (for example the governor) for wrongful death in a case like this?
As to that mayor, tarred and feathered and run out of “his” town on a rail is a tempting image.
Can he make people go to work, for crying out loud? (Rhetorical question. Even from my very local neighborhood it’s abundantly clear that different towns invest different powers in their officials.)
can you sue someone (for example the governor) for wrongful death in a case like this?
As to that mayor, tarred and feathered and run out of “his” town on a rail is a tempting image.
Can he make people go to work, for crying out loud? (Rhetorical question. Even from my very local neighborhood it’s abundantly clear that different towns invest different powers in their officials.)
wj, you could *sue*, it’s incredibly unlikely that you’d *win*. They’ve stacked the legal deck so as to avoid accountability.
When there’s no “legal path” to accountability for heinous acts, that leaves the 2nd Amendment path.
Better to deal with it through the courts, but (IMO) it needs to be made much clearer that there is a PRICE for legal immunity.
wj, you could *sue*, it’s incredibly unlikely that you’d *win*. They’ve stacked the legal deck so as to avoid accountability.
When there’s no “legal path” to accountability for heinous acts, that leaves the 2nd Amendment path.
Better to deal with it through the courts, but (IMO) it needs to be made much clearer that there is a PRICE for legal immunity.
my suggestion is that we let the virus decide when it’s safe for us to all get back to normal. since it’s probably not going to follow any schedule we set for it.
Why anyone is even thinking about when to “reopen” anything or get “back to normal” when we, whether that means the US or the planet generally, are still in the exponential-growth phase (literally, mathematically exponential – not the loose colloquial usage) of this thing is beyond me.
It’s like your house is burning down and you want to talk about what color to paint the living room after the house is rebuilt.
my suggestion is that we let the virus decide when it’s safe for us to all get back to normal. since it’s probably not going to follow any schedule we set for it.
Why anyone is even thinking about when to “reopen” anything or get “back to normal” when we, whether that means the US or the planet generally, are still in the exponential-growth phase (literally, mathematically exponential – not the loose colloquial usage) of this thing is beyond me.
It’s like your house is burning down and you want to talk about what color to paint the living room after the house is rebuilt.
As to that mayor, tarred and feathered and run out of “his” town on a rail is a tempting image.
This would do, but personally I prefer Hartmut’s sinister:
(my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment)
Hartmut’s past record encourages me to imagine that this would be highly appropriate, not to mention entertaining.
As to that mayor, tarred and feathered and run out of “his” town on a rail is a tempting image.
This would do, but personally I prefer Hartmut’s sinister:
(my first reaction being calling for exquisitely cruel and highly unusual punishment)
Hartmut’s past record encourages me to imagine that this would be highly appropriate, not to mention entertaining.
Well, Mozart had the right idea. He just jumbled the proper sequence:
http://www.aria-database.com/search.php?individualAria=290
(Last stanza is the relevant part here)
https://youtu.be/dp15XFciT-c?t=277
Well, Mozart had the right idea. He just jumbled the proper sequence:
http://www.aria-database.com/search.php?individualAria=290
(Last stanza is the relevant part here)
https://youtu.be/dp15XFciT-c?t=277
Perhaps Mozart was a completist.
Perhaps Mozart was a completist.
From a practical point of view #1 would make #2 a wee bit difficult. I think one should start with #5 and then go #6*, #3, #7, #2, #1, #4.
*the correct translation would be ‘dipping’ btw, so less final.
From a practical point of view #1 would make #2 a wee bit difficult. I think one should start with #5 and then go #6*, #3, #7, #2, #1, #4.
*the correct translation would be ‘dipping’ btw, so less final.
Meter and rhyme tend to make getting sequencing difficult. I design flaw, I suppose….
Meter and rhyme tend to make getting sequencing difficult. I design flaw, I suppose….
I did not use billionaires as a proxy for the corporations, someone else did and I was replying to them. None of this money is going to billionaires, Compsnies going bankrupt,reorganizing,other companies picking up the assets, all those things cause some pain to billionaires, but much more pain fo the dislocated employees and thousands of 401k shareholders.
That’s what your saying is ok if you dont like that part of this package.
I did not use billionaires as a proxy for the corporations, someone else did and I was replying to them. None of this money is going to billionaires, Compsnies going bankrupt,reorganizing,other companies picking up the assets, all those things cause some pain to billionaires, but much more pain fo the dislocated employees and thousands of 401k shareholders.
That’s what your saying is ok if you dont like that part of this package.
So, the government will be picking corporate winners and losers. Since the politicians feel compelled to toss a lot of money into the wind, directing to individuals and let them pick the winners and losers would likely be a better approach.
So, the government will be picking corporate winners and losers. Since the politicians feel compelled to toss a lot of money into the wind, directing to individuals and let them pick the winners and losers would likely be a better approach.
That’s what your saying is ok if you dont like that part of this package.
How about this: if you take the money, you don’t lay anybody off.
If that means you pay them to sit at home, then you pay them to sit at home.
Seem fair to you?
That’s what your saying is ok if you dont like that part of this package.
How about this: if you take the money, you don’t lay anybody off.
If that means you pay them to sit at home, then you pay them to sit at home.
Seem fair to you?
Well, that’s what it says. If you take the money and dont reduce payroll for the term the money you spent on payroll and a few other expenses gets forgiven.
Seem fair?
Well, that’s what it says. If you take the money and dont reduce payroll for the term the money you spent on payroll and a few other expenses gets forgiven.
Seem fair?
An analysis of the corporate lending part of the relief bill. Dayen clearly has a point of view, but he seems to have his facts straight.
$425B of the $500B total helps capitalize a $4.25T – four point two five trillion dollar – lending facility at the Fed. In brief:
A pretty fncking sweet deal.
Note that this money trough is not for the small businesses that actually employ most of the people who work for a living. Small business gets a separate, significantly smaller pile of dough.
The (R) Senators who were holding up the bill were doing so because they thought a $600 a week bump in unemployment benefits might persuade people to leave their jobs and stay home.
An analysis of the corporate lending part of the relief bill. Dayen clearly has a point of view, but he seems to have his facts straight.
$425B of the $500B total helps capitalize a $4.25T – four point two five trillion dollar – lending facility at the Fed. In brief:
A pretty fncking sweet deal.
Note that this money trough is not for the small businesses that actually employ most of the people who work for a living. Small business gets a separate, significantly smaller pile of dough.
The (R) Senators who were holding up the bill were doing so because they thought a $600 a week bump in unemployment benefits might persuade people to leave their jobs and stay home.
If you take the money and dont reduce payroll for the term the money you spent on payroll and a few other expenses gets forgiven.
That’s the small business program. The big pile of money, administered through the Fed, does not have that requirement.
If you take the money and dont reduce payroll for the term the money you spent on payroll and a few other expenses gets forgiven.
That’s the small business program. The big pile of money, administered through the Fed, does not have that requirement.
Well he hasnt seen the language, no dividends, cuts in management pay, np.o buybacks until the loans repaid.
I will read the employment section again, because I thought there was one in both. Its 1100 pages, but it is my current gig to know exactly what it says. So I’ll take a day
Well he hasnt seen the language, no dividends, cuts in management pay, np.o buybacks until the loans repaid.
I will read the employment section again, because I thought there was one in both. Its 1100 pages, but it is my current gig to know exactly what it says. So I’ll take a day
it is my current gig to know exactly what it says
Share where you are reading it. I hate to say this, but I’m not trusting any sources that you may have in your reading list, and I don’t put it past them to do what Jimmy McGill did to his brother.
it is my current gig to know exactly what it says
Share where you are reading it. I hate to say this, but I’m not trusting any sources that you may have in your reading list, and I don’t put it past them to do what Jimmy McGill did to his brother.
cool. I’ll be interested to know what you find.
cool. I’ll be interested to know what you find.
Grist for the mill – of course the Kochs are involved in the sausage making and in the pushback against restrictions to non-essential businesses:
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/26/americans-for-prosperity-cdc-coronavirus/
This in the moment when, according to the Johns Hopkins site, the US has passed China and is #1 on the world list with 82,404 confirmed cases and a curve that is still trending sharply upward.
Meanwhile, I soldier onward with my efforts to move my entire curriculum online and to ensure that all of my students can actually access it from wherever they have landed to weather this storm.
Grist for the mill – of course the Kochs are involved in the sausage making and in the pushback against restrictions to non-essential businesses:
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/26/americans-for-prosperity-cdc-coronavirus/
This in the moment when, according to the Johns Hopkins site, the US has passed China and is #1 on the world list with 82,404 confirmed cases and a curve that is still trending sharply upward.
Meanwhile, I soldier onward with my efforts to move my entire curriculum online and to ensure that all of my students can actually access it from wherever they have landed to weather this storm.
Share where you are reading it.
If I’m not mistaken, what Marty is saying here is that he is reviewing the bill itself, as part of his current professional responsibilities. So, not secondary sources.
Share where you are reading it.
If I’m not mistaken, what Marty is saying here is that he is reviewing the bill itself, as part of his current professional responsibilities. So, not secondary sources.
Marty seems to be saying that. From the Reagan era, Доверяй, но проверяй…
Meanwhile, here in Japan, German citizens got this letter
https://japan.diplo.de/ja-de/aktuelles/-/2327752
Gesundheit!!
Marty seems to be saying that. From the Reagan era, Доверяй, но проверяй…
Meanwhile, here in Japan, German citizens got this letter
https://japan.diplo.de/ja-de/aktuelles/-/2327752
Gesundheit!!
“the US has passed China”
We’re #1! We’re #1! Bring out your foam fingers.
“the US has passed China”
We’re #1! We’re #1! Bring out your foam fingers.
From the Reagan era, Доверяй, но проверяй…
LOL
From the Reagan era, Доверяй, но проверяй…
LOL
Priest, I knew we’d be able to beat those heathen commie Chinese. And we did it while still believing in the germ theory! Take that, Xi Jinping!!!
Priest, I knew we’d be able to beat those heathen commie Chinese. And we did it while still believing in the germ theory! Take that, Xi Jinping!!!
Why anyone is even thinking about when to “reopen” anything
You asked for a name, Thullen. And I give you HSH. (Sorry HSH).
And some hope from Neil Ferguson of Imperial College. From 510,000 UK deaths and 2.2M U.S. (worst case scenario) to 20,000 in the UK (UK flu is 17k annual) is really good news I think. I wonder what his modeling says (or wait, he’s in the UK, his “modelling” right?) about the U.S. now. The report also says R0 is estimated to be just over 3 based on the new data from Europe, further supporting SIP.
It is unclear to me how much of the revised estimate is due to SIP vs. the data coming out of Europe.
Why anyone is even thinking about when to “reopen” anything
You asked for a name, Thullen. And I give you HSH. (Sorry HSH).
And some hope from Neil Ferguson of Imperial College. From 510,000 UK deaths and 2.2M U.S. (worst case scenario) to 20,000 in the UK (UK flu is 17k annual) is really good news I think. I wonder what his modeling says (or wait, he’s in the UK, his “modelling” right?) about the U.S. now. The report also says R0 is estimated to be just over 3 based on the new data from Europe, further supporting SIP.
It is unclear to me how much of the revised estimate is due to SIP vs. the data coming out of Europe.
I am reading the actual bill. One of the partners downloaded it to our shared drive so I’m not sure what gov site he got it from. I have been skimming waiting to see if the House changes it so I dont have to read the whole thing twice.
We also have a list of sections we decided was most important to our clients so we have been discussing them first.
I am reading the actual bill. One of the partners downloaded it to our shared drive so I’m not sure what gov site he got it from. I have been skimming waiting to see if the House changes it so I dont have to read the whole thing twice.
We also have a list of sections we decided was most important to our clients so we have been discussing them first.
This in the moment when, according to the Johns Hopkins site, the US has passed China and is #1 on the world list with 82,404 confirmed cases and a curve that is still trending sharply upward.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China. And there’re strange facts like, in the last couple of months, the Chinese telecoms having a net loss of 21 million accounts.
This in the moment when, according to the Johns Hopkins site, the US has passed China and is #1 on the world list with 82,404 confirmed cases and a curve that is still trending sharply upward.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China. And there’re strange facts like, in the last couple of months, the Chinese telecoms having a net loss of 21 million accounts.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China. And there’re strange facts like, in the last couple of months, the Chinese telecoms having a net loss of 21 million accounts.
Could you provide a link for this? I know someone in China, and I’m worried about what happens there. But from what I’ve heard, things are returning to normal. He lives in Shanghai, so not the epicenter. They’re still practicing vigilant temperature testing and social distancing, but he’s going to his office several days a week. He doesn’t personally know anyone who got the virus (except for a former colleague who now lives in the UK and got it there).
I don’t trust the Chinese government either, but if it were rampant, one would think it would have become obvious by now to people who are living there.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China. And there’re strange facts like, in the last couple of months, the Chinese telecoms having a net loss of 21 million accounts.
Could you provide a link for this? I know someone in China, and I’m worried about what happens there. But from what I’ve heard, things are returning to normal. He lives in Shanghai, so not the epicenter. They’re still practicing vigilant temperature testing and social distancing, but he’s going to his office several days a week. He doesn’t personally know anyone who got the virus (except for a former colleague who now lives in the UK and got it there).
I don’t trust the Chinese government either, but if it were rampant, one would think it would have become obvious by now to people who are living there.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China.
Also likely true of our own numbers, versteh? At least until there is more testing.
It’s not like Trump’s numbers reduction strategy hasn’t been in public sight the whole time. He cannot contain his own id.
The real numbers in China may be a magnitude more or greater than the numbers coming out of China.
Also likely true of our own numbers, versteh? At least until there is more testing.
It’s not like Trump’s numbers reduction strategy hasn’t been in public sight the whole time. He cannot contain his own id.
Good point, nous. Too bad we’ve become a banana republic. It used to be that we might have had a better clue.
Good point, nous. Too bad we’ve become a banana republic. It used to be that we might have had a better clue.
So it goes:
https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/atheism-secularism/virginia-pastor-who-said-coronavirus-was-anti-trump-hysteria-dies-from-virus-6OlmIzj2eUe-5X39utr-cw?fbclid=IwAR06HN_7tEwoSNqXXCFln5gPPseuWbi9Zs2jvmO8PXoTeh-qF-NOG3MZd_k
So it goes:
https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/atheism-secularism/virginia-pastor-who-said-coronavirus-was-anti-trump-hysteria-dies-from-virus-6OlmIzj2eUe-5X39utr-cw?fbclid=IwAR06HN_7tEwoSNqXXCFln5gPPseuWbi9Zs2jvmO8PXoTeh-qF-NOG3MZd_k
My 15-year-old is obsessed with design. Tesla. Apple. Dyson. He is constantly telling me what I need to buy and it gets annoying. Did I say he is obsessive?
Anyway, I haven’t been that impressed with Dyson until this. Not much to go on, and maybe they won’t be all they are cracked up to be, but color me impressed that they designed it in ten days and are planning to deliver in early April.
Maybe I should listen to that kid more.
My 15-year-old is obsessed with design. Tesla. Apple. Dyson. He is constantly telling me what I need to buy and it gets annoying. Did I say he is obsessive?
Anyway, I haven’t been that impressed with Dyson until this. Not much to go on, and maybe they won’t be all they are cracked up to be, but color me impressed that they designed it in ten days and are planning to deliver in early April.
Maybe I should listen to that kid more.
Also, per sapient’s point about his contacts in China, I haven’t heard anything about widespread virus deaths from my former colleagues who are working and living in Hong Kong (who had a few things to say about the strikes there while they were going on).
Hong Kong has been slowly opening back up, again with temperature monitoring and limited contact.
Also, per sapient’s point about his contacts in China, I haven’t heard anything about widespread virus deaths from my former colleagues who are working and living in Hong Kong (who had a few things to say about the strikes there while they were going on).
Hong Kong has been slowly opening back up, again with temperature monitoring and limited contact.
Instant karma’s gonna get you…..
Instant karma’s gonna get you…..
That related to the dead pastor, of course.
It is unclear to me how much of the revised estimate is due to SIP vs. the data coming out of Europe.
I saw him talking about this on Channel 4 news last night. He said (I mentioned this in the other thread, I think) that his projection relies on people pretty strictly observing the lockdown.
That related to the dead pastor, of course.
It is unclear to me how much of the revised estimate is due to SIP vs. the data coming out of Europe.
I saw him talking about this on Channel 4 news last night. He said (I mentioned this in the other thread, I think) that his projection relies on people pretty strictly observing the lockdown.
Could you provide a link for this?
I’m having trouble finding news sources that are doing much more than reporting China’s numbers at face value. But some people who have lived in and studied China are very skeptical of the numbers being reported. They think the CCP may be lowballing the number of deaths by at least a factor of ten.
Italy had several strikes against it even before it was hit with COVID-19. It has one of the highest average age populations in the World and its medical system was already stretched thin. But China’s population is about 23 times larger than Italy’s. The outbreak started there and the government dragged its feet for about two months before locking down the country. So it’s a bit difficult to believe that Italy has had more deaths than China.
Math is hard: 🙂
“As of Thursday, China’s total death toll from the coronavirus was 3,245. But the total number of people infected by the virus in China is more than twice the number in Italy and China’s population is nearly 25 orders of magnitude larger than Italy’s population of 61 million people.”
Grim milestone: Italy’s coronavirus deaths surpass China’s
Could you provide a link for this?
I’m having trouble finding news sources that are doing much more than reporting China’s numbers at face value. But some people who have lived in and studied China are very skeptical of the numbers being reported. They think the CCP may be lowballing the number of deaths by at least a factor of ten.
Italy had several strikes against it even before it was hit with COVID-19. It has one of the highest average age populations in the World and its medical system was already stretched thin. But China’s population is about 23 times larger than Italy’s. The outbreak started there and the government dragged its feet for about two months before locking down the country. So it’s a bit difficult to believe that Italy has had more deaths than China.
Math is hard: 🙂
“As of Thursday, China’s total death toll from the coronavirus was 3,245. But the total number of people infected by the virus in China is more than twice the number in Italy and China’s population is nearly 25 orders of magnitude larger than Italy’s population of 61 million people.”
Grim milestone: Italy’s coronavirus deaths surpass China’s
I don’t know enough about The Epoch Times to know how crediable it is.
“A comparison with the situation in Italy also suggests the Chinese death toll is significantly underreported. Italy adopted similar measures to those used by the Chinese regime. The CCP virus death toll in Italy of 4,825 translates to a death rate of 9 percent. In China, where a much larger population was exposed to the virus, the reported death toll of 3,265 translated to a death rate of only 4 percent, less than half that reported in Italy.
Activities in the outbreak epicenter of Hubei Province seem to contradict the reported death toll in China. The seven funeral homes in the city of Wuhan were reported to be burning bodies 24 hours a day, seven days a week in late January. Hubei Province has used 40 mobile cremators, each capable of burning five tons of medical waste and bodies a day, since Feb. 16.”
21 Million Fewer Cellphone Users in China May Suggest a High CCP Virus Death Toll: The number of Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million in the past three months, Beijing authorities announced on March 19.
I don’t know enough about The Epoch Times to know how crediable it is.
“A comparison with the situation in Italy also suggests the Chinese death toll is significantly underreported. Italy adopted similar measures to those used by the Chinese regime. The CCP virus death toll in Italy of 4,825 translates to a death rate of 9 percent. In China, where a much larger population was exposed to the virus, the reported death toll of 3,265 translated to a death rate of only 4 percent, less than half that reported in Italy.
Activities in the outbreak epicenter of Hubei Province seem to contradict the reported death toll in China. The seven funeral homes in the city of Wuhan were reported to be burning bodies 24 hours a day, seven days a week in late January. Hubei Province has used 40 mobile cremators, each capable of burning five tons of medical waste and bodies a day, since Feb. 16.”
21 Million Fewer Cellphone Users in China May Suggest a High CCP Virus Death Toll: The number of Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million in the past three months, Beijing authorities announced on March 19.
So it’s a bit difficult to believe that Italy has had more deaths than China.
Math is hard: 🙂
Now might not be a very good time to take a stroll down Via Fibonacci in Pisa.
And yet, so very very apropos.
So it’s a bit difficult to believe that Italy has had more deaths than China.
Math is hard: 🙂
Now might not be a very good time to take a stroll down Via Fibonacci in Pisa.
And yet, so very very apropos.
China’s population is nearly 25 orders of magnitude larger than Italy’s population of 61 million people
Math is hard: 🙂
Especially for someone who doesn’t have the faintest shred of a clue what an order of magnitude is.
China’s population is nearly 25 orders of magnitude larger than Italy’s population of 61 million people
Math is hard: 🙂
Especially for someone who doesn’t have the faintest shred of a clue what an order of magnitude is.
Epoch Times is a Falun Gong news outlet. They don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.
Epoch Times is a Falun Gong news outlet. They don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.
They don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.
ohhh, that’s a keeper!
They don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.
ohhh, that’s a keeper!
Isn’t the Order of Magnitude a secret cabal running stuff behind the scenes? 😉
Isn’t the Order of Magnitude a secret cabal running stuff behind the scenes? 😉
Excellent long read on vaccine development:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/inside-the-race-to-develop-a-coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19
Excellent long read on vaccine development:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/inside-the-race-to-develop-a-coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19
China has 61,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people!
China has 61,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people!
And USA Today has innumerate copy editors. Or more likely no copy editors at all.
And the educational system….oh well, let’s not go there.
And USA Today has innumerate copy editors. Or more likely no copy editors at all.
And the educational system….oh well, let’s not go there.
Hey cleek, are you missing a zero?
61,000,000 + 25 zeroes?
Now we can argue about whether “3 times larger than” means the same thing as “3 times as large as.”
Escapism for nerds. 😉
Hey cleek, are you missing a zero?
61,000,000 + 25 zeroes?
Now we can argue about whether “3 times larger than” means the same thing as “3 times as large as.”
Escapism for nerds. 😉
Hey cleek, are you missing a zero?
cat stole it
Hey cleek, are you missing a zero?
cat stole it
“Orders of magnitude” is irresistibly cool sounding. They couldn’t help themselves.
“Orders of magnitude” is irresistibly cool sounding. They couldn’t help themselves.
Now I’m left wondering if “exponential growth” being truly applicable has resulted in exponential growth of the use of “exponential growth.” People seem to like using that, too, even when it’s not the correct description.
Now I’m left wondering if “exponential growth” being truly applicable has resulted in exponential growth of the use of “exponential growth.” People seem to like using that, too, even when it’s not the correct description.
“expotential growth” is different
“expotential growth” is different
hsh — you have landed smack in the middle of my theory of language change. Language change happens because everyone wants to sound like the cool kids!
For example, the word “candidate” is ubiquitous in our perpetual campaign season. I pronounce it to rhyme with “date.” Until 2012, I had never heard it pronounced any other way.
During the presidential campaign that year I started to hear people on NPR (and elsewhere) pronouncing it “candi-duht.” (Sort of.) Appalling! The new pronunciation spread like a…well, like a virus, actually, to the point where I heard people pronouncing it both ways in the same sentence, so strong was the desperate need to be cool in the face of a long ingrained habit.
Similarly: the spread of the “shtr” pronunciation in words with “str” — “adminishtration” instead of “administration.” This is becoming ever more common, if subtly so.
I am not going to chase links right now, but I read early on that “candi-duht” has long been common in the upper midwest, and “shtr” for (what’s spelled as) “str” has long been common among African-Americans.
Then I listened to Michelle Obama’s book on one of my Ohio trips and I suddently had a very strong hunch as to who the cool kids were who had made these changes spread so fast…..
*****
All that said, that’s a different phenomenon from using “orders of magnitude” when you don’t even know what it means. Okay, sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know…but to harp on a sore point, that’s what copy editors are for.
*****
hsh added a comment about “exponential growth” while I was writing. That reminds me of long, long ago when Turbulence waxed irritated about the use of “quantum leap” to mean very very large, when it fact a quantum leap is very very tiny. I always thought the (mis)usage came from people wanting to emphasis the discontinuity of a leap… (This is designed to bring Turbulence back out of lurking, if that wasn’t obvious. 😉
hsh — you have landed smack in the middle of my theory of language change. Language change happens because everyone wants to sound like the cool kids!
For example, the word “candidate” is ubiquitous in our perpetual campaign season. I pronounce it to rhyme with “date.” Until 2012, I had never heard it pronounced any other way.
During the presidential campaign that year I started to hear people on NPR (and elsewhere) pronouncing it “candi-duht.” (Sort of.) Appalling! The new pronunciation spread like a…well, like a virus, actually, to the point where I heard people pronouncing it both ways in the same sentence, so strong was the desperate need to be cool in the face of a long ingrained habit.
Similarly: the spread of the “shtr” pronunciation in words with “str” — “adminishtration” instead of “administration.” This is becoming ever more common, if subtly so.
I am not going to chase links right now, but I read early on that “candi-duht” has long been common in the upper midwest, and “shtr” for (what’s spelled as) “str” has long been common among African-Americans.
Then I listened to Michelle Obama’s book on one of my Ohio trips and I suddently had a very strong hunch as to who the cool kids were who had made these changes spread so fast…..
*****
All that said, that’s a different phenomenon from using “orders of magnitude” when you don’t even know what it means. Okay, sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know…but to harp on a sore point, that’s what copy editors are for.
*****
hsh added a comment about “exponential growth” while I was writing. That reminds me of long, long ago when Turbulence waxed irritated about the use of “quantum leap” to mean very very large, when it fact a quantum leap is very very tiny. I always thought the (mis)usage came from people wanting to emphasis the discontinuity of a leap… (This is designed to bring Turbulence back out of lurking, if that wasn’t obvious. 😉
Where’s my copy editor?
Or my proofreader…..
Oh, for an edit button.
Where’s my copy editor?
Or my proofreader…..
Oh, for an edit button.
“candidate”… I had never heard it pronounced any other way.
the word has too many d’s. remove one, to fit with common pronunciation.
can-id-ate.
“candidate”… I had never heard it pronounced any other way.
the word has too many d’s. remove one, to fit with common pronunciation.
can-id-ate.
Similarly: the spread of the “shtr” pronunciation in words with “str” — “adminishtration” instead of “administration.”
That is actually a result of alcohol consumption. Which is also becoming ever more common, especially among those who are professionally obliged to talk about the administration.
Similarly: the spread of the “shtr” pronunciation in words with “str” — “adminishtration” instead of “administration.”
That is actually a result of alcohol consumption. Which is also becoming ever more common, especially among those who are professionally obliged to talk about the administration.
can-id-ate.
That may be a southern/southwester/western variance. It’s how I pronounce ‘candidate’.
can-id-ate.
That may be a southern/southwester/western variance. It’s how I pronounce ‘candidate’.
It occurs to me that the usage of “quantum leap” that irritated Turb is like the almost ubiquitous usage of “decimate” to mean, roughly, “nearly wiped out,” when the literal meaning is to eliminate ten percent.
Similarly the use of “penultimate” to mean “ultimate,” when it actually means “next to last.”
Cue our resident classical scholar, unless he’s busy at an Order of Magnitude meeting….
It occurs to me that the usage of “quantum leap” that irritated Turb is like the almost ubiquitous usage of “decimate” to mean, roughly, “nearly wiped out,” when the literal meaning is to eliminate ten percent.
Similarly the use of “penultimate” to mean “ultimate,” when it actually means “next to last.”
Cue our resident classical scholar, unless he’s busy at an Order of Magnitude meeting….
I am not going to chase links right now, but I read early on that “candi-duht” has long been common in the upper midwest
This is the common pronunciation in the UK, but since when have the Brits been the cool kids….
I am not going to chase links right now, but I read early on that “candi-duht” has long been common in the upper midwest
This is the common pronunciation in the UK, but since when have the Brits been the cool kids….
Pronunciation drift is different from the adoption of a phrase, though. I think the pronunciation drift is driven as much by the growth of YouTube as a media platform as anything else. YouTubers don’t go to broadcast school to get themselves Iowized.
As for the “exponential growth” “quantum leap” and the like. I blame the SATs and SAT prep and timed writing exams. Those phrases get larded into writing like “well greaved Achaeans” and “rosy cheeked dawn” as a strategy for falutin’ up and padding out a piece of shallow, hastily (conceived and) written prose. It’s how freshman turn 400 word ideas into 1200 word papers, and it takes a lot of convincing to break them of this cursed habit.
Pronunciation drift is different from the adoption of a phrase, though. I think the pronunciation drift is driven as much by the growth of YouTube as a media platform as anything else. YouTubers don’t go to broadcast school to get themselves Iowized.
As for the “exponential growth” “quantum leap” and the like. I blame the SATs and SAT prep and timed writing exams. Those phrases get larded into writing like “well greaved Achaeans” and “rosy cheeked dawn” as a strategy for falutin’ up and padding out a piece of shallow, hastily (conceived and) written prose. It’s how freshman turn 400 word ideas into 1200 word papers, and it takes a lot of convincing to break them of this cursed habit.
Rosy-fingered dawn. But I like your rejection of the gambit.
Rosy-fingered dawn. But I like your rejection of the gambit.
And here I thought it was “rosy fingered dawn”. Which to my mind is a better description of how dawn looks. (At least in this part of the country.) That’s probably why I misremembered it.
And here I thought it was “rosy fingered dawn”. Which to my mind is a better description of how dawn looks. (At least in this part of the country.) That’s probably why I misremembered it.
GftNC, thanks for the validation. Perhaps memory loss hasn’t set in after all….
GftNC, thanks for the validation. Perhaps memory loss hasn’t set in after all….
Also wine-dark sea. But I like “falutin up”. I think that The Social Network may have been the first time I heard “lawyered up”, but it was immediately attractive, and seems pretty widespread now. Maybe it already was in the US?
Also wine-dark sea. But I like “falutin up”. I think that The Social Network may have been the first time I heard “lawyered up”, but it was immediately attractive, and seems pretty widespread now. Maybe it already was in the US?
Similarly the use of “penultimate” to mean “ultimate,” when it actually means “next to last.”
Not to mention preantipenultimate…
For those of us who prefer to give a couple more chances.
Similarly the use of “penultimate” to mean “ultimate,” when it actually means “next to last.”
Not to mention preantipenultimate…
For those of us who prefer to give a couple more chances.
Preantepenultimate, dammit.
Preantepenultimate, dammit.
Pronunciation drift is different from the adoption of a phrase, though.
But the latter is happening through YouTube as well. The 8-year-old kid of a friend of mine spouts British-isms he asborbed by watching StampyLongnose Minecraft videos. For that matter, I spout them sometimes because almost all I read these days is mystery novels set in the UK.
And by the way, speaking of new phrases…
You (nous) recently wrote: “Returning fire here is not firing for effect,” and I had to come to a screeching halt to work out what it meant. I’d love to have you explain it so I can decide whether I deciphered it correctly. I assume it’s vocab from your field…?
Similarly with “in the pocket.” That one I went looking for, and was comforted to find out that even people who were familiar with it weren’t in total agreement about what it meant.
Meanwhile, I first read “Iowized” not as “Iowa-ized” but as “low-ized,” and I thought you were at it again, that is, using words I would have to go look up. 😉
“Falutin’ up” — goes in the pantheon with “they don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.” You’re on a roll!
Pronunciation drift is different from the adoption of a phrase, though.
But the latter is happening through YouTube as well. The 8-year-old kid of a friend of mine spouts British-isms he asborbed by watching StampyLongnose Minecraft videos. For that matter, I spout them sometimes because almost all I read these days is mystery novels set in the UK.
And by the way, speaking of new phrases…
You (nous) recently wrote: “Returning fire here is not firing for effect,” and I had to come to a screeching halt to work out what it meant. I’d love to have you explain it so I can decide whether I deciphered it correctly. I assume it’s vocab from your field…?
Similarly with “in the pocket.” That one I went looking for, and was comforted to find out that even people who were familiar with it weren’t in total agreement about what it meant.
Meanwhile, I first read “Iowized” not as “Iowa-ized” but as “low-ized,” and I thought you were at it again, that is, using words I would have to go look up. 😉
“Falutin’ up” — goes in the pantheon with “they don’t just have an axe to grind, they own the foundry.” You’re on a roll!
Nigel: was absolutely unaware of preantepenultimate! You live and (constantly) learn.
Nigel: was absolutely unaware of preantepenultimate! You live and (constantly) learn.
nous, I too had initial trouble with the “firing” phrase Janie quotes. But I heartily agree on axe/foundry. Now I’m going to check what “in the pocket of” means, other than the way I used it.
nous, I too had initial trouble with the “firing” phrase Janie quotes. But I heartily agree on axe/foundry. Now I’m going to check what “in the pocket of” means, other than the way I used it.
Don’t get me started on the Roman calendar and its backward counting including the current day. Admittedly, Germans used to mean ‘the same day next week’ when they said ‘in 8 days’ until quite recently.
In Latin high and low/deep are the same word (‘altus’) and ‘ultimus’ and ‘extremus’ can mean the first or the last depending on context.
This makes translating Lovecraft into Latin pure horror.
Back to the Oger of Magatude.
Don’t get me started on the Roman calendar and its backward counting including the current day. Admittedly, Germans used to mean ‘the same day next week’ when they said ‘in 8 days’ until quite recently.
In Latin high and low/deep are the same word (‘altus’) and ‘ultimus’ and ‘extremus’ can mean the first or the last depending on context.
This makes translating Lovecraft into Latin pure horror.
Back to the Oger of Magatude.
GftNC — a quibble, but it’s important to the difference in meaning. It wasn’t “in the pocket of,” it was just “in the pocket.” It was music-related, to help you in your search.
Also, “lawyered up” has been around for a while, AFAIK. I’d guess it was originally a play on “buttered up.” ?
GftNC — a quibble, but it’s important to the difference in meaning. It wasn’t “in the pocket of,” it was just “in the pocket.” It was music-related, to help you in your search.
Also, “lawyered up” has been around for a while, AFAIK. I’d guess it was originally a play on “buttered up.” ?
By “in the pocket of” I meant:
Under the direct control or influence of someone or some group, especially through illegal or unscrupulous financial means. (from the Free Dictionary – first thing I cam across).
Am now chasing alternatives of which I was unaware, for educational purposes…
By “in the pocket of” I meant:
Under the direct control or influence of someone or some group, especially through illegal or unscrupulous financial means. (from the Free Dictionary – first thing I cam across).
Am now chasing alternatives of which I was unaware, for educational purposes…
Hi, McKinney! How’s bidness?
–TP
Hi, McKinney! How’s bidness?
–TP
Per Hartmut: Oh, the arguments I’ve been in about what “next weekend” means….
Per Hartmut: Oh, the arguments I’ve been in about what “next weekend” means….
Apologies, Janie, I egocentrically thought you were referring to this of mine in the barber/Covid thread:
Given that many of the Rs involved in this are also in thrall to (and in the pockets of) the military-industrial complex
Apologies, Janie, I egocentrically thought you were referring to this of mine in the barber/Covid thread:
Given that many of the Rs involved in this are also in thrall to (and in the pockets of) the military-industrial complex
And someone hand me a far-shadowing spear, please.
Nothing beats the ‘langhinschattende Lanze’ of the traditional German tranlsation yet.
And someone hand me a far-shadowing spear, please.
Nothing beats the ‘langhinschattende Lanze’ of the traditional German tranlsation yet.
nous, a few days ago:
More musical distraction for those with a taste for heavy psychedelic blues. If Kingston Wall had been from Texas, they would have been legends, but instead they are legends in Finland and mostly unknown in the rest of the world. They epitomize the classic power trio format – incredible guitar playing over the top of one of the tightest pockets I have ever heard
I had forgotten that he hadn’t explicitly written “in the pocket.” If he had, it would have come up right away. If I put “in the pocket” into a Google search box, the top result is from the Urban Dictionary.
nous, a few days ago:
More musical distraction for those with a taste for heavy psychedelic blues. If Kingston Wall had been from Texas, they would have been legends, but instead they are legends in Finland and mostly unknown in the rest of the world. They epitomize the classic power trio format – incredible guitar playing over the top of one of the tightest pockets I have ever heard
I had forgotten that he hadn’t explicitly written “in the pocket.” If he had, it would have come up right away. If I put “in the pocket” into a Google search box, the top result is from the Urban Dictionary.
I was finding stuff like this.
I was finding stuff like this.
This reminds me of the time a few of us (my sib, a friend and I) ended up having an impromptu “encyclopaedia party” (pre-internet). Someone looked something up, which prompted another search, then another, and on. It was a gas.
This reminds me of the time a few of us (my sib, a friend and I) ended up having an impromptu “encyclopaedia party” (pre-internet). Someone looked something up, which prompted another search, then another, and on. It was a gas.
Three wizards are eating fried chicken on a train travelling west at 30 mph. The wizard sitting closest to the window says he’s going to cast a spell next weekend.
Discuss.
Three wizards are eating fried chicken on a train travelling west at 30 mph. The wizard sitting closest to the window says he’s going to cast a spell next weekend.
Discuss.
Oh, and it’s Wednesday.
Oh, and it’s Wednesday.
hsh … I’m not sure I will ever stop laughing.
You win the thread. I think you win the internet.
And your score is 800!!!!!
(Or am I dating myself?)
hsh … I’m not sure I will ever stop laughing.
You win the thread. I think you win the internet.
And your score is 800!!!!!
(Or am I dating myself?)
Rosy cheeked Dawn probably is one of those freshpersons..
Rosy cheeked Dawn probably is one of those freshpersons..
And your score is 800!!!!!
Yes!
On a less funny note, a few days ago GftNC mentioned Rump’s improving poll numbers as reported on 538. He’s now polling better than he has since just after he took office. I don’t understand.
And your score is 800!!!!!
Yes!
On a less funny note, a few days ago GftNC mentioned Rump’s improving poll numbers as reported on 538. He’s now polling better than he has since just after he took office. I don’t understand.
my guess: people don’t know what part of this effort is Trump’s doing vs what the state and local governments are responsible for, and they’re crediting Trump for all of it?
and, they liked seeing Fauci.
my guess: people don’t know what part of this effort is Trump’s doing vs what the state and local governments are responsible for, and they’re crediting Trump for all of it?
and, they liked seeing Fauci.
Oh, the arguments I’ve been in about what “next weekend” means….
Saturday thru Tuesday, it means the one coming up, that is, in less than 8 days. Thursday and Friday, it means the one after the coming one, that is in 8 to 10 days.
And Wednesday is confusing. 😉
Oh, the arguments I’ve been in about what “next weekend” means….
Saturday thru Tuesday, it means the one coming up, that is, in less than 8 days. Thursday and Friday, it means the one after the coming one, that is in 8 to 10 days.
And Wednesday is confusing. 😉
The emergency aid bill has not yet passed. Why not? Because Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) decided he would demand for a quorum call — that is, require that a majority of the members be present to vote. Which means we’re waiting for enough members to fly back to Washington to achieve a quorum. Instead of just passing it “by unanimous consent”, which is how things like this would normally happen.
You know someone is being an exceptional assh*le when President Trump calls him a “third-rate Grandstander” on Twitter. Which happened this morning.
I’m not sure whether to hope he goes the way of the preacher that was mentioned here yesterday, or whether just having his constituents vote him out would be sufficient. Probably the former, not least because people who keep electing him aren’t likely to finally boot him out over this.
The emergency aid bill has not yet passed. Why not? Because Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) decided he would demand for a quorum call — that is, require that a majority of the members be present to vote. Which means we’re waiting for enough members to fly back to Washington to achieve a quorum. Instead of just passing it “by unanimous consent”, which is how things like this would normally happen.
You know someone is being an exceptional assh*le when President Trump calls him a “third-rate Grandstander” on Twitter. Which happened this morning.
I’m not sure whether to hope he goes the way of the preacher that was mentioned here yesterday, or whether just having his constituents vote him out would be sufficient. Probably the former, not least because people who keep electing him aren’t likely to finally boot him out over this.
He’s now polling better than he has since just after he took office. I don’t understand.
You start with 10% of the population (the ones outside the 41% who routinely approve and the 50% who routinely disapprove) who are basically disengaged. Now, their lives are being disrupted over some virus. And what they see on the news (probably without listening to the details of what’s said) is Trump surrounded by presumed experts talking about what us being done to get back to normal. They want to get back to normal, so they approve.
And his ratings rise. Temporarily, since once they can go back to their normal lives they’ll be back to ignoring politics again.** But for Trump, for whom “long range” vision is maybe 24 hours, the current bump is enough to celebrate.
** Of course, if they don’t get back to normal in a couple of weeks, which seems likely, they will join the Disapprove group.
He’s now polling better than he has since just after he took office. I don’t understand.
You start with 10% of the population (the ones outside the 41% who routinely approve and the 50% who routinely disapprove) who are basically disengaged. Now, their lives are being disrupted over some virus. And what they see on the news (probably without listening to the details of what’s said) is Trump surrounded by presumed experts talking about what us being done to get back to normal. They want to get back to normal, so they approve.
And his ratings rise. Temporarily, since once they can go back to their normal lives they’ll be back to ignoring politics again.** But for Trump, for whom “long range” vision is maybe 24 hours, the current bump is enough to celebrate.
** Of course, if they don’t get back to normal in a couple of weeks, which seems likely, they will join the Disapprove group.
Because Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) decided he would demand for a quorum call…
That pesky Constitution! Always getting in the way of getting things done!
I like the idea that everyone will be on the record when they vote on that monster of a bill.
Because Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) decided he would demand for a quorum call…
That pesky Constitution! Always getting in the way of getting things done!
I like the idea that everyone will be on the record when they vote on that monster of a bill.
Rosy-cheeked Dawn was from the Hummel Iliad collection.
“Fire for Effect” is an artillery term. At the start of a fire mission, the battery usually fires off a single round at a time to find the right range and coordinates for their shells. Once the forward observer confirms that the ordnance is landing in range of where it can do proper damage, the order is to “fire for effect,” and the battery lets loose its full destructive power where it can do the most damage.
Rosy-cheeked Dawn was from the Hummel Iliad collection.
“Fire for Effect” is an artillery term. At the start of a fire mission, the battery usually fires off a single round at a time to find the right range and coordinates for their shells. Once the forward observer confirms that the ordnance is landing in range of where it can do proper damage, the order is to “fire for effect,” and the battery lets loose its full destructive power where it can do the most damage.
That pesky Constitution! Always getting in the way of getting things done!
Um, no. Not even close. The Constitution is entirely silent on the subject. It’s just the House’s internal rules on how it will conduct business.
But nice try at justifying the despicable.
That pesky Constitution! Always getting in the way of getting things done!
Um, no. Not even close. The Constitution is entirely silent on the subject. It’s just the House’s internal rules on how it will conduct business.
But nice try at justifying the despicable.
Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business;
US Constitution ARTICLE I, SECTION 5, CLAUSE 1 Quorum requirement:
Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business;
US Constitution ARTICLE I, SECTION 5, CLAUSE 1 Quorum requirement:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/politics/coronavirus-stimulus-house-vote/index.html
Failed third-rate Grandstander
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/politics/coronavirus-stimulus-house-vote/index.html
Failed third-rate Grandstander
h/t
h/t
You’d think people would be smart enough not to say these things even if they’re awful enough to think them.
You’d think people would be smart enough not to say these things even if they’re awful enough to think them.
“The damages of keeping the economy closed as it is could be worse than losing a few more people,”
This particular fnckwad doesn’t understand either math or English.
Or in billionairespeak, “few” = a couple million.
“The damages of keeping the economy closed as it is could be worse than losing a few more people,”
This particular fnckwad doesn’t understand either math or English.
Or in billionairespeak, “few” = a couple million.
in the pocket, sans preposition.
in the pocket, sans preposition.
So, our heir to the throne and Prime Minister (and health minister) have it. How close to the throne (if you follow me) is it creeping stateside? And if not close, it makes you wonder how people who talked of it being hysteria, were behaving in private.
So, our heir to the throne and Prime Minister (and health minister) have it. How close to the throne (if you follow me) is it creeping stateside? And if not close, it makes you wonder how people who talked of it being hysteria, were behaving in private.
also in the pocket.
also in the pocket.
How close to the throne (if you follow me) is it creeping stateside?
Close enough that, even back when they were totally downplaying the threat in public, folks like Mulvaney got themselves tested. Twice! Who knows how many more tests since. We have a serious shortage of testing capacity nationwide, so maybe only weekly . . . for everybody in the West Wing?
Haven’t heard about anyone close to Trump actually coming down visibly sick. But would they admit it if it happened? Although it would probably be possible to notice the germaphobe-in-chief freaking out.
How close to the throne (if you follow me) is it creeping stateside?
Close enough that, even back when they were totally downplaying the threat in public, folks like Mulvaney got themselves tested. Twice! Who knows how many more tests since. We have a serious shortage of testing capacity nationwide, so maybe only weekly . . . for everybody in the West Wing?
Haven’t heard about anyone close to Trump actually coming down visibly sick. But would they admit it if it happened? Although it would probably be possible to notice the germaphobe-in-chief freaking out.
still in the pocket
I’ma stop now, just not enough hours in a day to do justice to all of it
still in the pocket
I’ma stop now, just not enough hours in a day to do justice to all of it
Pence and his wife were tested, earlier this week. i think it was this week… could have been last month, last year, 2003. time is strange these days,
Pence and his wife were tested, earlier this week. i think it was this week… could have been last month, last year, 2003. time is strange these days,
Boris Johnson apparently has tested positive.
Boris Johnson apparently has tested positive.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doctors-trump-social-distancing_n_5e7e0bb3c5b6256a7a29273f?fbclid=IwAR3kNsuBVzFzrGB-LL7OmW-M2wY1E_DnHaiVR1kXXIDxSIk_11Crx3-ZKxQ
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doctors-trump-social-distancing_n_5e7e0bb3c5b6256a7a29273f?fbclid=IwAR3kNsuBVzFzrGB-LL7OmW-M2wY1E_DnHaiVR1kXXIDxSIk_11Crx3-ZKxQ
ooh. nice URL.
i forgot this site doesn’t truncate them for display.
ooh. nice URL.
i forgot this site doesn’t truncate them for display.
I was going to ask, somewhat cheekily and somewhat humbly, when a good musical performance wasn’t “in the pocket.” But then I looked at the Urban Dictionary again and scrolled down to find this:
A complimentary reference describing a live musical performance, akin to an athlete being in “the zone”.
Now I get it. (I think.)
I was going to ask, somewhat cheekily and somewhat humbly, when a good musical performance wasn’t “in the pocket.” But then I looked at the Urban Dictionary again and scrolled down to find this:
A complimentary reference describing a live musical performance, akin to an athlete being in “the zone”.
Now I get it. (I think.)
The difference between an athlete being “in the zone” and musicians being “in the pocket” is that an athlete can be in the zone all by themself, but the pocket must be occupied by the whole rhythm section.
It’s when the rhythm section is playing the same groove (ahead, on, or behind the beat) and they maintain that groove precisely in time with each other, especially on the downbeats.
The difference between an athlete being “in the zone” and musicians being “in the pocket” is that an athlete can be in the zone all by themself, but the pocket must be occupied by the whole rhythm section.
It’s when the rhythm section is playing the same groove (ahead, on, or behind the beat) and they maintain that groove precisely in time with each other, especially on the downbeats.
Speaking of sports, it’s sixteen days since the NBA announced it was suspending its season, an event that was maybe the biggest single turning point in millions of people realizing that the situation was dire.
It feels like sixteen years. It feels so long ago, I was surprised today when someone mentioned it and I had to realize that I had forgotten all about it.
Speaking of sports, it’s sixteen days since the NBA announced it was suspending its season, an event that was maybe the biggest single turning point in millions of people realizing that the situation was dire.
It feels like sixteen years. It feels so long ago, I was surprised today when someone mentioned it and I had to realize that I had forgotten all about it.
Thanks, nous!
Thanks, nous!
they maintain that groove precisely in time with each other
I’ll expand on this slightly.
Depennding on the style, different performers can be in different positions relative to each other, and / or relative to metronomic time, while still being way deep in the pocket. The tension between the time placement of the different players can actually be what creates the overall feel – the way the pocket feels.
Check this out.
The drummer is just on top of (ahead of) metronomic time, especially the bass drum, but also the snare drum *except for* the hit on the fourth beat, which is pretty much right on the beat at first, but then he lets it move up a bit as the tune goes on to turn the heat up on the groove just a bit. Without speeding up, he just shifts where what he plays sits relative to metronomic time.
Somebody, I can’t quite tell who – accordian, or a guitar with a bit of reverb going on, maybe Vincent Nguni, the guy with the red guitar, or maybe it’s Simon himself on acoustic guitar – is consistently just behind the time.
Mark Stewart, the guy with the ginger ninja hair, who plays the lead guitar lines – is mostly a little ahead, except for the line he plays in the middle of the tune, where he hangs way back.
The crispy percussion sounds – shakers etc – are pretty much in metronomic time.
The whole thing has a push-pull feel that is just greasy as hell. It’s what makes the tune go. It’s the rhythm equivalent of harmonic dissonance – it creates a kind of frisson that draws you in.
they maintain that groove precisely in time with each other
I’ll expand on this slightly.
Depennding on the style, different performers can be in different positions relative to each other, and / or relative to metronomic time, while still being way deep in the pocket. The tension between the time placement of the different players can actually be what creates the overall feel – the way the pocket feels.
Check this out.
The drummer is just on top of (ahead of) metronomic time, especially the bass drum, but also the snare drum *except for* the hit on the fourth beat, which is pretty much right on the beat at first, but then he lets it move up a bit as the tune goes on to turn the heat up on the groove just a bit. Without speeding up, he just shifts where what he plays sits relative to metronomic time.
Somebody, I can’t quite tell who – accordian, or a guitar with a bit of reverb going on, maybe Vincent Nguni, the guy with the red guitar, or maybe it’s Simon himself on acoustic guitar – is consistently just behind the time.
Mark Stewart, the guy with the ginger ninja hair, who plays the lead guitar lines – is mostly a little ahead, except for the line he plays in the middle of the tune, where he hangs way back.
The crispy percussion sounds – shakers etc – are pretty much in metronomic time.
The whole thing has a push-pull feel that is just greasy as hell. It’s what makes the tune go. It’s the rhythm equivalent of harmonic dissonance – it creates a kind of frisson that draws you in.
this:
is right on.
this:
is right on.
and to further bore you all with musical nerdisms –
especially on the downbeats
I’d expand this slightly to say ‘especially on the part of the time feel that has the most weight’. Which, depending on style, may not be the downbeat.
For jazz, it’s often the offbeat, especially after the second or fourth beats (in four-four time). In Latin music, often between the second and third beat – the syncopated part of the bajon or “Spanish triplet” that is to Latin music what the downbeat is to Anglos.
and to further bore you all with musical nerdisms –
especially on the downbeats
I’d expand this slightly to say ‘especially on the part of the time feel that has the most weight’. Which, depending on style, may not be the downbeat.
For jazz, it’s often the offbeat, especially after the second or fourth beats (in four-four time). In Latin music, often between the second and third beat – the syncopated part of the bajon or “Spanish triplet” that is to Latin music what the downbeat is to Anglos.
Ya know, I played quite a bit of music in my day, including, when I was a teenager, as a choir and play accompanist at school, and as church organist; and later as a half-assed fiddler in a slapdash local contradance band. I have a pretty good ear as far as tunes go, and I can put (what I know now are) simple chords to simple melodies.
But russell — your latest link is as far outside my range as if I had lost my hearing entirely. I don’t know how many times I would have to listen to it to really hear a single thing you said was there.
There’s more I’d like to say/ask, but I gotta get outside before I go stir crazy.
Thanks, russell and nous, for an educational day.
Ya know, I played quite a bit of music in my day, including, when I was a teenager, as a choir and play accompanist at school, and as church organist; and later as a half-assed fiddler in a slapdash local contradance band. I have a pretty good ear as far as tunes go, and I can put (what I know now are) simple chords to simple melodies.
But russell — your latest link is as far outside my range as if I had lost my hearing entirely. I don’t know how many times I would have to listen to it to really hear a single thing you said was there.
There’s more I’d like to say/ask, but I gotta get outside before I go stir crazy.
Thanks, russell and nous, for an educational day.
Groove and pocket: Chicago – I’m A Man Live at Tanglewood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZUgfOqAdg
Groove and pocket: Chicago – I’m A Man Live at Tanglewood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZUgfOqAdg
ooh. nice URL.
Starting with the “?”, the rest of the URL can be deleted. It’s just HuffPost tracking how you came to it and where you go with their link. 🙂
ooh. nice URL.
Starting with the “?”, the rest of the URL can be deleted. It’s just HuffPost tracking how you came to it and where you go with their link. 🙂
GftNC, or anyone else, what is the deal with this?
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/coronavirus-after-pm-johnson-tests-positive-top-adviser-runs-from-downing-street
GftNC, or anyone else, what is the deal with this?
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/coronavirus-after-pm-johnson-tests-positive-top-adviser-runs-from-downing-street
So far no news on why Dominic Cummings was running. It may not be significant. The interesting thing is that apparently he was very gung ho behind the “herd immunity” strategy until a briefing on the 12th of March, whereupon he pivoted significantly. It does appear that he is altogether too fucking influential on public policy and BoJo’s strategy, but on the other hand, they do seem to be following medical/scientific advice on the whole. We shall see. More news on Dominic Cummings if I hear anything.
So far no news on why Dominic Cummings was running. It may not be significant. The interesting thing is that apparently he was very gung ho behind the “herd immunity” strategy until a briefing on the 12th of March, whereupon he pivoted significantly. It does appear that he is altogether too fucking influential on public policy and BoJo’s strategy, but on the other hand, they do seem to be following medical/scientific advice on the whole. We shall see. More news on Dominic Cummings if I hear anything.
Well, I did observe that CoVID is doing a great job of separating the grifters who realize they are spouting BS from the ones who actually believe it.
Well, I did observe that CoVID is doing a great job of separating the grifters who realize they are spouting BS from the ones who actually believe it.
This thread turned awesome.
When you are on the board all of those things matter. To capture, live shows, all of the nuance requires an unexpected amount of practice and, well call it patience. The board is like the bottom end. It cant fix a bad song but it can certainly ruin a great one.
Every link a gem russell.
This thread turned awesome.
When you are on the board all of those things matter. To capture, live shows, all of the nuance requires an unexpected amount of practice and, well call it patience. The board is like the bottom end. It cant fix a bad song but it can certainly ruin a great one.
Every link a gem russell.
A beautiful line from Leonard Pitts:
A beautiful line from Leonard Pitts:
Thinking about the things that are so obvious to russell that I can’t hear at all makes me remember the following passage from David Foster Wallace’s famous essay on Federer, which is itself preternaturally wonderful.
Thinking about the things that are so obvious to russell that I can’t hear at all makes me remember the following passage from David Foster Wallace’s famous essay on Federer, which is itself preternaturally wonderful.
I loved that essay, Janie, and I love that extract.
I loved that essay, Janie, and I love that extract.
OK, I know almost nothing of Andrew Cuomo. And suddenly people are sending me stuff like this:
I’d be interested to hear any response from ObWi commenters.
OK, I know almost nothing of Andrew Cuomo. And suddenly people are sending me stuff like this:
I’d be interested to hear any response from ObWi commenters.
I should have said any opinion, not any response!
I should have said any opinion, not any response!
The excellent bit on Federer reminds me of Ted Williams, the Splendid Splinter, whose 20/10 eyesight made the ball that much more visible.
Nonetheless, he did his homework.
Most people have something – some particular area of interest – in which they have developed more-than-average powers of discrimination.
Music, art, literature, but also clothing, cooking, science. Probably accounting and house-painting for that matter.
The natural gift takes you some distance, but at some point the homework begins.
Engaging with things in terms of their own particular qualities. The first steps on the path to devotion.
It’s a good thing. It takes us out of ourselves.
Marty, you do some pro sound back in the day?
The excellent bit on Federer reminds me of Ted Williams, the Splendid Splinter, whose 20/10 eyesight made the ball that much more visible.
Nonetheless, he did his homework.
Most people have something – some particular area of interest – in which they have developed more-than-average powers of discrimination.
Music, art, literature, but also clothing, cooking, science. Probably accounting and house-painting for that matter.
The natural gift takes you some distance, but at some point the homework begins.
Engaging with things in terms of their own particular qualities. The first steps on the path to devotion.
It’s a good thing. It takes us out of ourselves.
Marty, you do some pro sound back in the day?
Cool clip of Chicago, nous, thank you!
Cool clip of Chicago, nous, thank you!
russell, club work for 4 or 5 bands. A few auditoriums shows. I really spent a lot of time in practice “studios”. Good local bands in the late 70’s early 80’s.
My retirement plan is to have a studio.
russell, club work for 4 or 5 bands. A few auditoriums shows. I really spent a lot of time in practice “studios”. Good local bands in the late 70’s early 80’s.
My retirement plan is to have a studio.
Cool.
Cool.
Please allow me to expand slightly on myself.
an unexpected amount of practice and, well call it patience.
^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^
Surprising how deep even the simplest things are, and how much there is to discover, and the amount of practice and patience all of that can summon from us.
Cool.
Please allow me to expand slightly on myself.
an unexpected amount of practice and, well call it patience.
^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^
Surprising how deep even the simplest things are, and how much there is to discover, and the amount of practice and patience all of that can summon from us.
Cool.
Very cool.
Very cool.
Cool clip of Chicago, nous, thank you!
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that deeply grooving on the cowbell.
Cool clip of Chicago, nous, thank you!
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that deeply grooving on the cowbell.
I wasn’t sure where to put this but since this about politics, I decided to drop it here. We all have our own take-away’s from the current crisis. Here is mine, worth its weight in gold.
Six months from now, people will be telling the rest of us how all of this was eminently foreseeable and that if we had just done X or Y at the federal level, much of what we are currently experiencing would have been significantly mitigated.
Or, people will look back and rewrite or simply forget much of what has transpired, because it does not fit the modern, more-government-is-better narrative.
I seem to recall, at the outset of the CV onslaught, lefties almost instantly, if not reflexively, seized on the inadequacies of the US healthcare system and political leadership compared to the rest of the world.
So, here are two links:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-europe-wasnt-ready-it-may-never-fully-recover/#slide-1
The hard numbers aren’t especially encouraging for advocates of the European approach to healthcare or for the EU’s leftish leaning leadership. It seems that ours isn’t the only leadership that fiddled while Rome burned. IIRC, when DT “closed the borders”, there was a bit of a lefty hue and cry. Now, the EU countries have closed their borders to each other. Some union. Perhaps the irony here is only apparent to people like me. Also ironic is the silence on the left as Greek civilians were and are physically barring entry into Greece of Syrian refugees whose migration is being encouraged by Turkey. And the almost complete lack of anger on the left with the PRC for its incompetent if not criminal failure to warn and quarantine in a timely fashion.
It seems as if the outside narrative doesn’t fit with the domestic political agenda, it just isn’t there.
And then, on other fronts, Japan and Sweden seem to be taking a completely different approach to CV, yet no heads are exploding at Slate, Salon or here at what, if DT were to propose it, would be the grossest example yet of his incompetence.
Meanwhile, here in Texas, a statewide grocery store, back in 2005, devised its own contingency plan for a pandemic. The store is HEB and it is successfully getting food and necessaries to Texans, paying its people more during the crisis, and doing so without any fanfare. HEB also rallied on the Gulf Coast post Harvey. Feel free to complain about lack of funding for governmental programs and all that, but the cost of making plans is minimal and at least one private sector actor has done and done so effectively. Perhaps it isn’t money so much as it is competence.
My prediction is that, when we get past this, some of us will find that ad hoc blending of private and local government did more and did more effectively in the US than any national leadership anywhere in the world, including the US.
Assuming anyone responds to this, I’m aware of Dan Patrick’s statement. Of all of the political leaders in Texas, he probably is the lest well known and least influential, which made the reaction to what he said even funnier than it normally would have been.
That said, I hope everyone is weathering this storm as well as can be expected. All the best to all of you and yours.
I wasn’t sure where to put this but since this about politics, I decided to drop it here. We all have our own take-away’s from the current crisis. Here is mine, worth its weight in gold.
Six months from now, people will be telling the rest of us how all of this was eminently foreseeable and that if we had just done X or Y at the federal level, much of what we are currently experiencing would have been significantly mitigated.
Or, people will look back and rewrite or simply forget much of what has transpired, because it does not fit the modern, more-government-is-better narrative.
I seem to recall, at the outset of the CV onslaught, lefties almost instantly, if not reflexively, seized on the inadequacies of the US healthcare system and political leadership compared to the rest of the world.
So, here are two links:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-europe-wasnt-ready-it-may-never-fully-recover/#slide-1
The hard numbers aren’t especially encouraging for advocates of the European approach to healthcare or for the EU’s leftish leaning leadership. It seems that ours isn’t the only leadership that fiddled while Rome burned. IIRC, when DT “closed the borders”, there was a bit of a lefty hue and cry. Now, the EU countries have closed their borders to each other. Some union. Perhaps the irony here is only apparent to people like me. Also ironic is the silence on the left as Greek civilians were and are physically barring entry into Greece of Syrian refugees whose migration is being encouraged by Turkey. And the almost complete lack of anger on the left with the PRC for its incompetent if not criminal failure to warn and quarantine in a timely fashion.
It seems as if the outside narrative doesn’t fit with the domestic political agenda, it just isn’t there.
And then, on other fronts, Japan and Sweden seem to be taking a completely different approach to CV, yet no heads are exploding at Slate, Salon or here at what, if DT were to propose it, would be the grossest example yet of his incompetence.
Meanwhile, here in Texas, a statewide grocery store, back in 2005, devised its own contingency plan for a pandemic. The store is HEB and it is successfully getting food and necessaries to Texans, paying its people more during the crisis, and doing so without any fanfare. HEB also rallied on the Gulf Coast post Harvey. Feel free to complain about lack of funding for governmental programs and all that, but the cost of making plans is minimal and at least one private sector actor has done and done so effectively. Perhaps it isn’t money so much as it is competence.
My prediction is that, when we get past this, some of us will find that ad hoc blending of private and local government did more and did more effectively in the US than any national leadership anywhere in the world, including the US.
Assuming anyone responds to this, I’m aware of Dan Patrick’s statement. Of all of the political leaders in Texas, he probably is the lest well known and least influential, which made the reaction to what he said even funnier than it normally would have been.
That said, I hope everyone is weathering this storm as well as can be expected. All the best to all of you and yours.
My retirement plan is to have a studio.
guy three houses down did that. he made a fortune somehow, retired really early, and now just runs a recording studio out here in the woods.
My retirement plan is to have a studio.
guy three houses down did that. he made a fortune somehow, retired really early, and now just runs a recording studio out here in the woods.
The rise in the polls is all rally around the flag, which usually shows up in crisis polling. Carter jumped from 32% to 58% when the Iran hostage crisis hit and W got a 30 point jump from 9/11. Other world leaders have shown larger increases than T. The notable thing with him is how small the bump is. (I saw the Carter number on Kevin Kruse’s twitter feed.)
The rise in the polls is all rally around the flag, which usually shows up in crisis polling. Carter jumped from 32% to 58% when the Iran hostage crisis hit and W got a 30 point jump from 9/11. Other world leaders have shown larger increases than T. The notable thing with him is how small the bump is. (I saw the Carter number on Kevin Kruse’s twitter feed.)
It may be worth noting how brief that “rally ’round the flag” can be. Especially when it looks like the leader isn’t actually getting the crisis addressed effectively. See Carter and the Iran hostage crisis for that, too.
It may be worth noting how brief that “rally ’round the flag” can be. Especially when it looks like the leader isn’t actually getting the crisis addressed effectively. See Carter and the Iran hostage crisis for that, too.
However, if the crisis substantially abated by even mid June it will be hard to make it a negative in the election, an Aug/Sep rebound of the economy really hurts the Dem candidate.
The best to hope for is doofus keeps picking on Midwest Governors.
However, if the crisis substantially abated by even mid June it will be hard to make it a negative in the election, an Aug/Sep rebound of the economy really hurts the Dem candidate.
The best to hope for is doofus keeps picking on Midwest Governors.
How to win a popularity contest. Not just for yourself but for everything you represent.
“realities of the market” — that will definitely resonate with those who can’t get a hospital bed.
How to win a popularity contest. Not just for yourself but for everything you represent.
“realities of the market” — that will definitely resonate with those who can’t get a hospital bed.
if the crisis substantially abated by even mid June it will be hard to make it a negative in the election
Unless, of course, the predicted fall second surge in cases becomes visible in October.
if the crisis substantially abated by even mid June it will be hard to make it a negative in the election
Unless, of course, the predicted fall second surge in cases becomes visible in October.
The best to hope for is doofus keeps picking on Midwest Governors.
And not just this, but for him to go on explicitly making federal help available only to governors who are “appreciative”, and for the media to keep running clips which show him saying so.
The best to hope for is doofus keeps picking on Midwest Governors.
And not just this, but for him to go on explicitly making federal help available only to governors who are “appreciative”, and for the media to keep running clips which show him saying so.
Also, the friend I mentioned who was in the ICU is now off the ventilator, and breathing by himself. Hip hip hooray!
Also, the friend I mentioned who was in the ICU is now off the ventilator, and breathing by himself. Hip hip hooray!
Greetings. I’ve tried to put up the same comment twice. I think it’s in your spam trap.
wj: Yup. fixed (it’s back at 10:40 AM)
Greetings. I’ve tried to put up the same comment twice. I think it’s in your spam trap.
wj: Yup. fixed (it’s back at 10:40 AM)
GftNC, yay for your friend!
GftNC, yay for your friend!
McKinney (at 10:40 above): Six months from now, people will be telling the rest of us how all of this was eminently foreseeable and that if we had just done X or Y at the federal level, much of what we are currently experiencing would have been significantly mitigated.
Actually, they are saying it now. Certainly the “eminently foreseeable” part is well documented. Whether X or Y would have mitigated the impact will, I think, be a matter of comparing our experience to that of countries which actually did X or Y at their national level. (Not that such a data-driven approach will be convincing for some. On either side of the argument.)
McKinney (at 10:40 above): Six months from now, people will be telling the rest of us how all of this was eminently foreseeable and that if we had just done X or Y at the federal level, much of what we are currently experiencing would have been significantly mitigated.
Actually, they are saying it now. Certainly the “eminently foreseeable” part is well documented. Whether X or Y would have mitigated the impact will, I think, be a matter of comparing our experience to that of countries which actually did X or Y at their national level. (Not that such a data-driven approach will be convincing for some. On either side of the argument.)
Comparing different US states may also serve the purpose (no need to look at furrinas! We’re merkins!).
But there may well be different equally valid ways to deal with the problem and definitely different ones dependent on the state of the crisis. So, public-private partnerships may work well in one place but not in others. Where there is an actual sense of community some measures are probably superfluous that are inavoidable where the crisis is seen as an opportunity to achieve selfish goals (price gouging, self-dealing, scapegoating, malthusing, terrorism etc.).
Comparing different US states may also serve the purpose (no need to look at furrinas! We’re merkins!).
But there may well be different equally valid ways to deal with the problem and definitely different ones dependent on the state of the crisis. So, public-private partnerships may work well in one place but not in others. Where there is an actual sense of community some measures are probably superfluous that are inavoidable where the crisis is seen as an opportunity to achieve selfish goals (price gouging, self-dealing, scapegoating, malthusing, terrorism etc.).
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that deeply grooving on the cowbell.
Makes BÖC look like amateurs. It’s approaching Peak Cowbell.
Early Chicago has been a bit of a revelation for me. My late brother had a bunch of their albums in his collection and I heard them enough growing up that I never really *listened* to them. Then after he passed, I really wanted nothing to do with any of those songs for a long while.
Coming back to the early stuff without any of those filters has let me actually listen for the first time. They could really cook, especially when Kath was rocking out on his guitar, and Cetera was playing some serious bass while singing as well.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that deeply grooving on the cowbell.
Makes BÖC look like amateurs. It’s approaching Peak Cowbell.
Early Chicago has been a bit of a revelation for me. My late brother had a bunch of their albums in his collection and I heard them enough growing up that I never really *listened* to them. Then after he passed, I really wanted nothing to do with any of those songs for a long while.
Coming back to the early stuff without any of those filters has let me actually listen for the first time. They could really cook, especially when Kath was rocking out on his guitar, and Cetera was playing some serious bass while singing as well.
Chicago was a really good band. Great rhythm section, really good part writing for the horns, good singers, and good songs. The early stuff has tons of energy.
Cool video!
GFTNC, so glad to hear about your friend.
McK, I think we’ll find that which countries handled things well and which didn’t has less to do with what kind of economic system they have, and more to do with whether they just generally had their shit together, whatever kind of economic system they have. That’s my thought, anyway.
There are lots of examples like HEB, they should all be applauded.
Chicago was a really good band. Great rhythm section, really good part writing for the horns, good singers, and good songs. The early stuff has tons of energy.
Cool video!
GFTNC, so glad to hear about your friend.
McK, I think we’ll find that which countries handled things well and which didn’t has less to do with what kind of economic system they have, and more to do with whether they just generally had their shit together, whatever kind of economic system they have. That’s my thought, anyway.
There are lots of examples like HEB, they should all be applauded.
Thanks all for good wishes. Let’s hope we and ours all manage to get out alive.
Thanks all for good wishes. Let’s hope we and ours all manage to get out alive.
And maximum numbers possible of everybody else too, of course, with the possible exception of those who kept saying this was an anti-Trump hoax.
And maximum numbers possible of everybody else too, of course, with the possible exception of those who kept saying this was an anti-Trump hoax.
Early Chicago has been a bit of a revelation for me.
same here.
a lot of bands went embarrassingly commercial in the 80s, but none more than Chicago.
but those early records cook.
Early Chicago has been a bit of a revelation for me.
same here.
a lot of bands went embarrassingly commercial in the 80s, but none more than Chicago.
but those early records cook.
Perhaps it isn’t money so much as it is competence.
competence without the means to implement is preaching to the wind.
Trump has shown negative leadership here. he spent months treating this as nothing more than a threat to his own electoral welfare – as he does everything. and so his statements have been wrong, misleading, deceptive and racist as he tries to deflect blame onto others and attract glory to himself. his incompetence and vainity is killing people. he could have taken this seriously a month ago, but he didn’t. he, and the entire GOP bullshit producing cartel, was telling people it was no big deal, a hoax, a cold. and they listened.
and here we are.
as always, he is the absolute worst person possible to be in the WH.
and everything that’s getting done is being done at the state level. and they’re doing it despite Trump, sometimes despite Trump personally (as he tries doing some more “i’d like you do me a favor, though” to help himself look better.
Perhaps it isn’t money so much as it is competence.
competence without the means to implement is preaching to the wind.
Trump has shown negative leadership here. he spent months treating this as nothing more than a threat to his own electoral welfare – as he does everything. and so his statements have been wrong, misleading, deceptive and racist as he tries to deflect blame onto others and attract glory to himself. his incompetence and vainity is killing people. he could have taken this seriously a month ago, but he didn’t. he, and the entire GOP bullshit producing cartel, was telling people it was no big deal, a hoax, a cold. and they listened.
and here we are.
as always, he is the absolute worst person possible to be in the WH.
and everything that’s getting done is being done at the state level. and they’re doing it despite Trump, sometimes despite Trump personally (as he tries doing some more “i’d like you do me a favor, though” to help himself look better.
this is what he has reduced the country to, during a fucking pandemic:
it’s not enough that their people are dying while coughing pink foamy shit out their mouths, Governors have to waste energy trying to figure out how to appease this goddamned toddler.
clean your house, GOP.
this is what he has reduced the country to, during a fucking pandemic:
it’s not enough that their people are dying while coughing pink foamy shit out their mouths, Governors have to waste energy trying to figure out how to appease this goddamned toddler.
clean your house, GOP.
On the fact that he wants the governors to be “appreciative”, it’s almost as if he’s never heard the expression quid pro quo
On the fact that he wants the governors to be “appreciative”, it’s almost as if he’s never heard the expression quid pro quo
So how about that “PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA” postcard that seems to have gone out to every mailing address in the US? Should we treat it as a vector for the MAGA virus, use it for toilet paper, or what?
I suppose the Deep State professionals at the CDC had to shrug their shoulders and slap the Great Orange Satan’s name on the thing in order to get the mailing out. Alternatively, the White House Mafia wanted a campaign ad for the Capo di Tutti Capi and ordered the CDC to slap something on the back of it, even if only a rehash of already widely publicized prescriptions.
The fact that both samples of the “postcard” I have seen consist of two pieces of paper glued back-to-back seems consistent with either hypothesis.
–TP
So how about that “PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA” postcard that seems to have gone out to every mailing address in the US? Should we treat it as a vector for the MAGA virus, use it for toilet paper, or what?
I suppose the Deep State professionals at the CDC had to shrug their shoulders and slap the Great Orange Satan’s name on the thing in order to get the mailing out. Alternatively, the White House Mafia wanted a campaign ad for the Capo di Tutti Capi and ordered the CDC to slap something on the back of it, even if only a rehash of already widely publicized prescriptions.
The fact that both samples of the “postcard” I have seen consist of two pieces of paper glued back-to-back seems consistent with either hypothesis.
–TP
qpq is sooooooooooo 2019.
and since the GOP Senate has absolved him of all his sins, he’s free to start running up the tally. he knows his base will defend him, no matter what.
qpq is sooooooooooo 2019.
and since the GOP Senate has absolved him of all his sins, he’s free to start running up the tally. he knows his base will defend him, no matter what.
Trump is already using the sweet-talking that governors have had to resort to in ads praising him for his leadership.
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1243679853003649026
“conservatives” are going to keep defending him.
—
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS: GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA
[edited for clarity]
Trump is already using the sweet-talking that governors have had to resort to in ads praising him for his leadership.
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1243679853003649026
“conservatives” are going to keep defending him.
—
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS: GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA
[edited for clarity]
So how about that “PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA” postcard that seems to have gone out to every mailing address in the US?
I still suspect that the reason Trump’s name got slapped on it was that the folks putting it out thought that nothing else was likely to get his cultists to do the right thing and follow the guidelines. Probably didn’t even bother to ask Trump first — if only to avoid having to try to make a case for how it would aid his poll numbers and/or reelection prospects.
So how about that “PRESIDENT TRUMP’S CORONAVIRUS GUIDELINES FOR AMERICA” postcard that seems to have gone out to every mailing address in the US?
I still suspect that the reason Trump’s name got slapped on it was that the folks putting it out thought that nothing else was likely to get his cultists to do the right thing and follow the guidelines. Probably didn’t even bother to ask Trump first — if only to avoid having to try to make a case for how it would aid his poll numbers and/or reelection prospects.
lolwut?
every thing Trump does is to boost his image. and there’s no chance at all his campaign team didn’t design that mailer.
lolwut?
every thing Trump does is to boost his image. and there’s no chance at all his campaign team didn’t design that mailer.
One of the most amazing concerts I ever saw was The Beach Boys with Chicago at the Cotton Bowl in 75. Each played and then they played together, no one sat down the whole show. I’m pretty sure no one.
First time I ever had a woman get a crush on me at a concert, she had just gone for the concert. Alas,after a month or so that wore off.
One of the most amazing concerts I ever saw was The Beach Boys with Chicago at the Cotton Bowl in 75. Each played and then they played together, no one sat down the whole show. I’m pretty sure no one.
First time I ever had a woman get a crush on me at a concert, she had just gone for the concert. Alas,after a month or so that wore off.
It’s gonna’ be a tough spring.
Hunker down. Do the right thing. Hang in.
It’s gonna’ be a tough spring.
Hunker down. Do the right thing. Hang in.
Talking with friends tonight, discovered that two folks at two degrees of separation from me have died from the virus. A third, the wife of one of the deceased, is on a ventilator.
A good friend of my wife and I works at a senior level doing strategic planning for a company that owns and manages nursing homes, In that capacity, she is in contact with the CDC more or less daily, and participates in / has access to models of the virus’ progress. MA, where I live, is apparently about 3 weeks out from the wave cresting. Hope we’re ready, don’t know if we are.
Stay on your toes, y’all. Gonna get worse before it gets better. Stay positive but stay vigilant.
Better days soon come.
Talking with friends tonight, discovered that two folks at two degrees of separation from me have died from the virus. A third, the wife of one of the deceased, is on a ventilator.
A good friend of my wife and I works at a senior level doing strategic planning for a company that owns and manages nursing homes, In that capacity, she is in contact with the CDC more or less daily, and participates in / has access to models of the virus’ progress. MA, where I live, is apparently about 3 weeks out from the wave cresting. Hope we’re ready, don’t know if we are.
Stay on your toes, y’all. Gonna get worse before it gets better. Stay positive but stay vigilant.
Better days soon come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbQkyvbw18
Not positive. But Dylan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbQkyvbw18
Not positive. But Dylan.
I wonder when the other side will consider it their turn.
I wonder when the other side will consider it their turn.
One of today’s little acts of cruelty: the Secretary of the Interior has ruled that the Wampanoag of eastern Massachusetts, though they are still a federally recognized tribe, are not to be allowed to establish a reservation:
https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/03/28/mashpee-wampanoag-reservation-secretary-interior-land-trust
Why not? One theory says: because part of the deal that got the Wampanoag their federal recognition was the changing of state law to allow a limited number of casinos in Massachusetts–because at least some of the Wampanoag wanted to have a tribal casino. But they cannot have a tribal casino without a reservation, so by denying them a reservation, we make sure that the Massachusetts casinos will all belong to…you know, the right sort of people. White people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-riddle-in-new-england-a-casino-321-acres-of-indian-tribal-land-and-a-presidential-tweet/2019/05/13/dfcc6dd8-7354-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1huwHT3W6xXqSIEYIoly0Q6M-6AvvulEYz4Q3UUmfljZXunn8iWwBw5Dc
One of today’s little acts of cruelty: the Secretary of the Interior has ruled that the Wampanoag of eastern Massachusetts, though they are still a federally recognized tribe, are not to be allowed to establish a reservation:
https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/03/28/mashpee-wampanoag-reservation-secretary-interior-land-trust
Why not? One theory says: because part of the deal that got the Wampanoag their federal recognition was the changing of state law to allow a limited number of casinos in Massachusetts–because at least some of the Wampanoag wanted to have a tribal casino. But they cannot have a tribal casino without a reservation, so by denying them a reservation, we make sure that the Massachusetts casinos will all belong to…you know, the right sort of people. White people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-riddle-in-new-england-a-casino-321-acres-of-indian-tribal-land-and-a-presidential-tweet/2019/05/13/dfcc6dd8-7354-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1huwHT3W6xXqSIEYIoly0Q6M-6AvvulEYz4Q3UUmfljZXunn8iWwBw5Dc
Well, it’s not nearly so complex as being racist. It’s more purely corrupt. The Twin River casino is 2p.1 miles away and is owned by a close friend of Trump. And it’s a horrible excuse for a casino, the Wampsnoag casino would likely put it out of business.
There is not much to be against other than pure cronyism. It’s a perfect spot, good access, the local area would benefit a lot.
The Wampanoag should be ok with another delay though, they dont have the best claim so the real risk is that it will get challenged in court, again.
I know a few contractors who had approved bids for site work 2, maybe 3, years ago. It would really stimulateocal recovery if it got kicked off.
Well, it’s not nearly so complex as being racist. It’s more purely corrupt. The Twin River casino is 2p.1 miles away and is owned by a close friend of Trump. And it’s a horrible excuse for a casino, the Wampsnoag casino would likely put it out of business.
There is not much to be against other than pure cronyism. It’s a perfect spot, good access, the local area would benefit a lot.
The Wampanoag should be ok with another delay though, they dont have the best claim so the real risk is that it will get challenged in court, again.
I know a few contractors who had approved bids for site work 2, maybe 3, years ago. It would really stimulateocal recovery if it got kicked off.
20.1 miles
20.1 miles
I suck at typing on my phone at the best of times. Three fingers of don abraham on ice a few times and the midnight hour turning over really means I shouldnt try any more tonight.
That is in way of apology for the last comment. Be safe.
I suck at typing on my phone at the best of times. Three fingers of don abraham on ice a few times and the midnight hour turning over really means I shouldnt try any more tonight.
That is in way of apology for the last comment. Be safe.
Marty, I’m astounded anyone would even try to type more than about 2 sentences on a phone. If I try, only auto correct (irritating as it can be) will keep me from a bunch of errors. If you only had the one, across 4 paragraphs, no reason at all to apologize.
Marty, I’m astounded anyone would even try to type more than about 2 sentences on a phone. If I try, only auto correct (irritating as it can be) will keep me from a bunch of errors. If you only had the one, across 4 paragraphs, no reason at all to apologize.
OK, so since I’ve admitted (on the other thread) to being a halfwit for not imediately getting Amy’s joke, now that my halfwittedness is out in the open, I have been looking at russell’s 10.46 mentioning two degrees of separation and I confess that when I told you about my friend who was in ICU on the ventilator, I wanted to use “degrees of separation” to indicate exact amount of closeness, but wasn’t exactly sure how it works. That man is a friendly acquaintance of mine, and my co-godparent, but a very close friend of some very close friends of mine. I wasn’t sure if that was a close friend at two degrees of separation, or one.
I know that mathematicians who collaborated on papers with Erdos (the one who called God the Supreme Fascist) say that their Erdos number is 1, and people who have collaborated with them on papers say they have an Erdos number of 2, and so on. If the principle is the same, my friendly acquaintance who now breathes by himself is a close friend at two degrees of separation. Is this right?
And, frighteningly, I have just read in the Guardian that of people who get as far as the ICU, only 50% survive. I’m glad I didn’t know that before, and hope I don’t have (close personal) reason to know it in the future.
OK, so since I’ve admitted (on the other thread) to being a halfwit for not imediately getting Amy’s joke, now that my halfwittedness is out in the open, I have been looking at russell’s 10.46 mentioning two degrees of separation and I confess that when I told you about my friend who was in ICU on the ventilator, I wanted to use “degrees of separation” to indicate exact amount of closeness, but wasn’t exactly sure how it works. That man is a friendly acquaintance of mine, and my co-godparent, but a very close friend of some very close friends of mine. I wasn’t sure if that was a close friend at two degrees of separation, or one.
I know that mathematicians who collaborated on papers with Erdos (the one who called God the Supreme Fascist) say that their Erdos number is 1, and people who have collaborated with them on papers say they have an Erdos number of 2, and so on. If the principle is the same, my friendly acquaintance who now breathes by himself is a close friend at two degrees of separation. Is this right?
And, frighteningly, I have just read in the Guardian that of people who get as far as the ICU, only 50% survive. I’m glad I didn’t know that before, and hope I don’t have (close personal) reason to know it in the future.
as I understand it:
Somebody you know personally is one degree. Somebody they know personally, but you don’t, is two degrees.
A friendly acquaintance of yours would be one degree.
If my understanding is correct.
The people in question in my case are colleagues of a friend of my wife and I, and a family member of the girlfriend of a young woman we know.
We’re all going to know people with the virus over the next several weeks.
Stay safe everybody.
as I understand it:
Somebody you know personally is one degree. Somebody they know personally, but you don’t, is two degrees.
A friendly acquaintance of yours would be one degree.
If my understanding is correct.
The people in question in my case are colleagues of a friend of my wife and I, and a family member of the girlfriend of a young woman we know.
We’re all going to know people with the virus over the next several weeks.
Stay safe everybody.
Thank you russell.
Stay safe everybody.
Amen.
Thank you russell.
Stay safe everybody.
Amen.
A nurse-practitioner friend shared this with me. It raises some interesting questions. One I’ve been thinking about for some time is the number of people who are or have been infected without knowing it, who will recover or have recovered without seeking medical attention or being tested. I’m left wondering about this because the wealthiest nation in human history lacks a rigorous testing regime so far.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see how Sweden’s approach works out.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/sweden-under-fire-for-relaxed-coronavirus-approach-here-s-the-science-behind-it/
And will there be a test that can detect people who had Covid-19 and have fully recovered?
A nurse-practitioner friend shared this with me. It raises some interesting questions. One I’ve been thinking about for some time is the number of people who are or have been infected without knowing it, who will recover or have recovered without seeking medical attention or being tested. I’m left wondering about this because the wealthiest nation in human history lacks a rigorous testing regime so far.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see how Sweden’s approach works out.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/sweden-under-fire-for-relaxed-coronavirus-approach-here-s-the-science-behind-it/
And will there be a test that can detect people who had Covid-19 and have fully recovered?
FWIW, apparently BoJo’s initial “laidback” response (I think it was wj who said this, but obviously lots of people and media were criticising it here) was completely science-led, and then the advice changed with the situation.
FWIW, apparently BoJo’s initial “laidback” response (I think it was wj who said this, but obviously lots of people and media were criticising it here) was completely science-led, and then the advice changed with the situation.
this man was an uncle of a friend.
this man was an uncle of a friend.
One caveat on degrees of separation: it is to some extent context driven. Thus russell’s explanation fits normal usage. But for virus purposes, a store clerk you buy from, but only ever see that once (i.e. you don’t actually know him) is still at 1 degree of separation. And the cook who made his delivered dinner the night before is at 2 degrees of separation from you.
That is, for virus transmission purposes, degrees of separation are how many pairs of hands touch. Whereas in normal use, all of you would be at 1 degree of separation from me, even if we’ve never been within a thousand miles of each other (or anything touched by the other).
One caveat on degrees of separation: it is to some extent context driven. Thus russell’s explanation fits normal usage. But for virus purposes, a store clerk you buy from, but only ever see that once (i.e. you don’t actually know him) is still at 1 degree of separation. And the cook who made his delivered dinner the night before is at 2 degrees of separation from you.
That is, for virus transmission purposes, degrees of separation are how many pairs of hands touch. Whereas in normal use, all of you would be at 1 degree of separation from me, even if we’ve never been within a thousand miles of each other (or anything touched by the other).
hsh, that would be the test for antibodies, showing that you either have the virus or had it not too far in the past (assuming that there is no permanent immunity)
hsh, that would be the test for antibodies, showing that you either have the virus or had it not too far in the past (assuming that there is no permanent immunity)
I did see yesterday that one of the drug companies has a blood test for antibodies developed and becoming available.
I suspect pretty soon if you go for blood work for anything that will be a standard test.
I did see yesterday that one of the drug companies has a blood test for antibodies developed and becoming available.
I suspect pretty soon if you go for blood work for anything that will be a standard test.
I did see yesterday that one of the drug companies has a blood test for antibodies developed and becoming available.
There are several US academic labs and medical companies developing antibody tests. At least two are currently selling such tests outside the US. AAUI, the FDA has waived most of its usual procedures for approving such tests. Still have to find someone who’s willing to pop for a million or so of them and fund the sampling program (it’s not that much; Bloomberg or Gates would never notice).
I did see yesterday that one of the drug companies has a blood test for antibodies developed and becoming available.
There are several US academic labs and medical companies developing antibody tests. At least two are currently selling such tests outside the US. AAUI, the FDA has waived most of its usual procedures for approving such tests. Still have to find someone who’s willing to pop for a million or so of them and fund the sampling program (it’s not that much; Bloomberg or Gates would never notice).
Still have to find someone who’s willing to pop for a million or so of them…
Related remark: One of the companies that makes medical ventilators has stated publicly that they could expand production quickly. That came with a caveat that they had received too few additional orders to justify doing it. That came to mind while Trump and GM were going back and forth this week. Sure, GM may be able to build ventilators. Who’s going to order ventilators from GM? Who’s going to take care of the training and maintenance needs for those? Is there even going to be training and maintenance programs?
Still have to find someone who’s willing to pop for a million or so of them…
Related remark: One of the companies that makes medical ventilators has stated publicly that they could expand production quickly. That came with a caveat that they had received too few additional orders to justify doing it. That came to mind while Trump and GM were going back and forth this week. Sure, GM may be able to build ventilators. Who’s going to order ventilators from GM? Who’s going to take care of the training and maintenance needs for those? Is there even going to be training and maintenance programs?
pretty soon if you go for blood work for anything
Conditions may be different in different places, but I don’t think many people will be going for blood work anytime soon.
pretty soon if you go for blood work for anything
Conditions may be different in different places, but I don’t think many people will be going for blood work anytime soon.
Liberty University Brings Back Its Students, and Coronavirus, Too:
The decision by the school’s president, Jerry Falwell Jr., to partly reopen his evangelical university enraged residents of Lynchburg, Va. Then students started getting sick.
Headline in the NYT today. It’s possible bc might think we’re foolishly believing “breathless headlines”. But personally, I’m prepared to treat the NYT as a paper of record, and while I don’t actually wish Covid-19 on anybody, I do think this falls again into the Instant karma’s gonna get you category along with the dead pastor, because as the NYT piece reminds us, Jerry Falwell was saying less than three weeks ago:
“It’s just strange to me how many are overreacting” to the pandemic, Mr. Falwell said on “Fox & Friends” on March 10. “It makes you wonder if there is a political reason for that. Impeachment didn’t work and the Mueller report didn’t work and Article 25 didn’t work, and so maybe now this is their next attempt to get Trump.”
Too bad the students have to suffer for Falwell’s hubris, ignorance and blind toadying.
Liberty University Brings Back Its Students, and Coronavirus, Too:
The decision by the school’s president, Jerry Falwell Jr., to partly reopen his evangelical university enraged residents of Lynchburg, Va. Then students started getting sick.
Headline in the NYT today. It’s possible bc might think we’re foolishly believing “breathless headlines”. But personally, I’m prepared to treat the NYT as a paper of record, and while I don’t actually wish Covid-19 on anybody, I do think this falls again into the Instant karma’s gonna get you category along with the dead pastor, because as the NYT piece reminds us, Jerry Falwell was saying less than three weeks ago:
“It’s just strange to me how many are overreacting” to the pandemic, Mr. Falwell said on “Fox & Friends” on March 10. “It makes you wonder if there is a political reason for that. Impeachment didn’t work and the Mueller report didn’t work and Article 25 didn’t work, and so maybe now this is their next attempt to get Trump.”
Too bad the students have to suffer for Falwell’s hubris, ignorance and blind toadying.
Dustressing
https://twitter.com/JohnPrineMusic/status/1244374068226293761?s=09
Dustressing
https://twitter.com/JohnPrineMusic/status/1244374068226293761?s=09
Conditions may be different in different places, but I don’t think many people will be going for blood work anytime soon.
Well, except for those of us going in to donate blood. Which, from the entreaties arriving in my email, seems to be in shorter supply than usual. They’ll have to test it all anyway, of course. I’ll be amazed if they don’t include the results, along with stuff like blood sugar and cholesterol levels, in the report they routinely send donors.
Conditions may be different in different places, but I don’t think many people will be going for blood work anytime soon.
Well, except for those of us going in to donate blood. Which, from the entreaties arriving in my email, seems to be in shorter supply than usual. They’ll have to test it all anyway, of course. I’ll be amazed if they don’t include the results, along with stuff like blood sugar and cholesterol levels, in the report they routinely send donors.
From GftNC’s NYTimes piece
“If he had purely political motives, he’s being way more conservative than even Trump is being right now. Trump is at least allowing doctors to say their piece. Jerry is not. It kind of shocks me at this point.”
With condolences to wj and bc, I’d just point that the speaker is beginning to realize that ‘conservative’ and ‘behaving stupidly in a crisis’ are starting to mean the same thing.
From GftNC’s NYTimes piece
“If he had purely political motives, he’s being way more conservative than even Trump is being right now. Trump is at least allowing doctors to say their piece. Jerry is not. It kind of shocks me at this point.”
With condolences to wj and bc, I’d just point that the speaker is beginning to realize that ‘conservative’ and ‘behaving stupidly in a crisis’ are starting to mean the same thing.
I’ll be amazed if they don’t include the results, along with stuff like blood sugar and cholesterol levels, in the report they routinely send donors.
?!?!?!
I don’t recall ever getting a report after donating blood. A cookie and an apple juice, and you’re on your way.
Is this something relatively new?
In any case, thanks for the reminder to donate blood.
I’ll be amazed if they don’t include the results, along with stuff like blood sugar and cholesterol levels, in the report they routinely send donors.
?!?!?!
I don’t recall ever getting a report after donating blood. A cookie and an apple juice, and you’re on your way.
Is this something relatively new?
In any case, thanks for the reminder to donate blood.
lj: exactly. Point well made.
lj: exactly. Point well made.
Marty: thanks. I’ve gathered how highly so many of you value John Prine, so here’s hoping he does OK.
Marty: thanks. I’ve gathered how highly so many of you value John Prine, so here’s hoping he does OK.
Perhaps other blood donation organizations do things differently. The one that collects around here (Vitalant) sets up all donors with a login for making our appointments. And filling out the pre-donation questionnaire online. Then, a couple days after donating (yes, we get juice and snnacks at the end) we can log in and see various test results. Including looking back at previous donations’ test results.
It’s been that way so long, it didn’t occur to me it wasn’t general practice.
Perhaps other blood donation organizations do things differently. The one that collects around here (Vitalant) sets up all donors with a login for making our appointments. And filling out the pre-donation questionnaire online. Then, a couple days after donating (yes, we get juice and snnacks at the end) we can log in and see various test results. Including looking back at previous donations’ test results.
It’s been that way so long, it didn’t occur to me it wasn’t general practice.
Perhaps other blood donation organizations do things differently.
I’ve always just been a walk-in at Red Cross events. I don’t remember even giving them my name, to be honest.
My comment about blood work was more about how basic primary medical care has kind of come to a halt. GP’s are mostly not taking appointments for much of anything. Specialists are doing phone interviews in lieu of in-office visits.
I guess if somebody ordered a blood test, the lab at the hospital would do it, and the ER’s are open for urgent care. But in general it seems like medical practices are actively discouraging people from coming in.
No doubt there are blood tests that somebody somewhere can run to see if you’ve been exposed to COVID-19 and have acquired an immunity, but it seems unlikely that anything resembling “routine blood work” is on offer. Or will be, for some time to come.
Perhaps other blood donation organizations do things differently.
I’ve always just been a walk-in at Red Cross events. I don’t remember even giving them my name, to be honest.
My comment about blood work was more about how basic primary medical care has kind of come to a halt. GP’s are mostly not taking appointments for much of anything. Specialists are doing phone interviews in lieu of in-office visits.
I guess if somebody ordered a blood test, the lab at the hospital would do it, and the ER’s are open for urgent care. But in general it seems like medical practices are actively discouraging people from coming in.
No doubt there are blood tests that somebody somewhere can run to see if you’ve been exposed to COVID-19 and have acquired an immunity, but it seems unlikely that anything resembling “routine blood work” is on offer. Or will be, for some time to come.
Lock him up!
It seems the wheels of justice are grinding for Senator Burr (he of the million dollar, insider stock trades)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/senator-richard-burr-stock-trades-coronavirus-investigation/2020/03/30/36487df8-7298-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html
Lock him up!
It seems the wheels of justice are grinding for Senator Burr (he of the million dollar, insider stock trades)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/senator-richard-burr-stock-trades-coronavirus-investigation/2020/03/30/36487df8-7298-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html
the stuff on John Prine’s first record are among the first that i can remember being my ‘favorite’. i didn’t get much of what he was singing about, but i really loved his melodies.
the stuff on John Prine’s first record are among the first that i can remember being my ‘favorite’. i didn’t get much of what he was singing about, but i really loved his melodies.
Seems to me this might be problematic:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegations-why-has-media-ignored-claims
Seems to me this might be problematic:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegations-why-has-media-ignored-claims
John Prine’s favorite John Prine song, apparently. Probably mine, too.
There is a sweet spot in songwriting, where the most careful choice of word and phrase sounds like folks just talking. Where a candid understanding of the inherent difficulty and sadness of life is presented without self-pity. And where the simplest pleasures of everyday life are captured with affection and humor.
John Prine owns that spot. He is one of the very best we have.
Hope he hangs in there, I’d love to hear the next 100 songs he writes.
John Prine’s favorite John Prine song, apparently. Probably mine, too.
There is a sweet spot in songwriting, where the most careful choice of word and phrase sounds like folks just talking. Where a candid understanding of the inherent difficulty and sadness of life is presented without self-pity. And where the simplest pleasures of everyday life are captured with affection and humor.
John Prine owns that spot. He is one of the very best we have.
Hope he hangs in there, I’d love to hear the next 100 songs he writes.
Are Sweden and Japan crazy?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-swedens-radically-different-approach-to-the-coronavirus-11585598175
Are Sweden and Japan crazy?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-swedens-radically-different-approach-to-the-coronavirus-11585598175
wrs
wrs
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden. if more evidence comes out against him, we’ll have something to talk about.
but i’m certainly not going to help the GOP (or the anti-“establishment” left) run yet another fact-lite smear against him, while shrugging off Trump’s entire life.
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden. if more evidence comes out against him, we’ll have something to talk about.
but i’m certainly not going to help the GOP (or the anti-“establishment” left) run yet another fact-lite smear against him, while shrugging off Trump’s entire life.
Seems to me this might be problematic
Against a different opponent (say Pence), maybe. But against “pussy grabber”? Hard to see it hurting him. Even if there is confirmation, it seems unlikely to rise to the level of tapes of Biden boasting about it. Let alone documentation of him paying off those making the allegations.
Seems to me this might be problematic
Against a different opponent (say Pence), maybe. But against “pussy grabber”? Hard to see it hurting him. Even if there is confirmation, it seems unlikely to rise to the level of tapes of Biden boasting about it. Let alone documentation of him paying off those making the allegations.
Let alone documentation of him paying off those making the allegations.
I would not count on this one. Lots of important people over the years have paid to have embarrassments, of varying credibility, just go away.
Let alone documentation of him paying off those making the allegations.
I would not count on this one. Lots of important people over the years have paid to have embarrassments, of varying credibility, just go away.
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden.
I’m pretty sure they’re spurious considering the source. That said, investigating would be fine, as due process is important for the accuser and the accused. The fact that the investigation of Blasey-Ford’s allegations weren’t conducted with any seriousness made her testimony seem (to me) all the more credible. So if anyone (including the “Justice” Department) wants to proceed, should do.
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden.
I’m pretty sure they’re spurious considering the source. That said, investigating would be fine, as due process is important for the accuser and the accused. The fact that the investigation of Blasey-Ford’s allegations weren’t conducted with any seriousness made her testimony seem (to me) all the more credible. So if anyone (including the “Justice” Department) wants to proceed, should do.
Some info about Japan’s decision
https://apjjf.org/2020/7/Kingston.html
As Bannon said, Abe was Trump before Trump
Some info about Japan’s decision
https://apjjf.org/2020/7/Kingston.html
As Bannon said, Abe was Trump before Trump
I agree that such allegations should be investigated, although I also agree that he’d have a way to go to match Trump’s record.
Further to which, Alex Salmond, the ex-leader of the SNP, was accused by 10 women of improper advances, assault and rape, and after a trial was (a couple of days ago) completely acquitted. I didn’t follow the evidence closely, but I find it very hard to believe that 10 women would lie about this, especially since all (or maybe almost all) are from his own party. To me, like the Blasey-Ford experience, it just looks almost as if the cards are stacked in favour of the patriarchy. Who could have guessed?
I agree that such allegations should be investigated, although I also agree that he’d have a way to go to match Trump’s record.
Further to which, Alex Salmond, the ex-leader of the SNP, was accused by 10 women of improper advances, assault and rape, and after a trial was (a couple of days ago) completely acquitted. I didn’t follow the evidence closely, but I find it very hard to believe that 10 women would lie about this, especially since all (or maybe almost all) are from his own party. To me, like the Blasey-Ford experience, it just looks almost as if the cards are stacked in favour of the patriarchy. Who could have guessed?
On the Swedish experiment:
https://unherd.com/2020/03/all-eyes-on-the-swedish-coronavirus-experiment/
On the Swedish experiment:
https://unherd.com/2020/03/all-eyes-on-the-swedish-coronavirus-experiment/
I’m on blood thinner so I have to go in for lab work for monitoring purposes every 4 weeks, it’s just a finger poke to produce a few drops. Went in last week and there was literally no one else in the front waiting room (so the “Social Distancing” signs on every other chair were unneeded), one other patient waiting in the back hall for lab work. I hadn’t known what to expect, and was relieved to have little company.
I’m on blood thinner so I have to go in for lab work for monitoring purposes every 4 weeks, it’s just a finger poke to produce a few drops. Went in last week and there was literally no one else in the front waiting room (so the “Social Distancing” signs on every other chair were unneeded), one other patient waiting in the back hall for lab work. I hadn’t known what to expect, and was relieved to have little company.
The Biden allegations are being treated with seriousness, but there’s really nowhere to go with them unless someone else has any credible information or can corroborate her account. If this is something that she has not mentioned to others before, then it’s hard to know what to do with that.
It’s not a cover-up, it’s just very little to go on for a story.
And it’s motes and beams for anyone from the right who’s hoping to try and make more out of this.
The Biden allegations are being treated with seriousness, but there’s really nowhere to go with them unless someone else has any credible information or can corroborate her account. If this is something that she has not mentioned to others before, then it’s hard to know what to do with that.
It’s not a cover-up, it’s just very little to go on for a story.
And it’s motes and beams for anyone from the right who’s hoping to try and make more out of this.
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden.
My first observation is that the article, titled ‘why has the media ignored … claims against Biden?’, contains five links to reporting on the issue.
Nothing from the NYT or WaPo, so I guess no ‘mainstream’ media. Or insufficient ‘mainstream’ media.
My second observation is that this election cycle is going to be a blizzard of BS the likes of which we haven’t seen since maybe the election of 1800.
I’m not in the ‘yeah, but Trump…’ crowd because I’d rather not have Trump be the standard of what is or is not acceptable in public behavior. Reade deserves to have her claims heard. She deserves the opportunity to bring whatever evidence she has before us all.
If there is a credible claim that Biden assaulted her, he should not get a pass. If he is shown to be guilty of assaulting her, he should be held accountable.
If not, move the hell on.
The hypocrisy of the (R) party should be enough to shame them out of existence, but apparently it is not. The rest of us seem to be willing to put up with it so far, but I wouldn’t push my luck.
i’m not sure what to make of the allegations against Biden.
My first observation is that the article, titled ‘why has the media ignored … claims against Biden?’, contains five links to reporting on the issue.
Nothing from the NYT or WaPo, so I guess no ‘mainstream’ media. Or insufficient ‘mainstream’ media.
My second observation is that this election cycle is going to be a blizzard of BS the likes of which we haven’t seen since maybe the election of 1800.
I’m not in the ‘yeah, but Trump…’ crowd because I’d rather not have Trump be the standard of what is or is not acceptable in public behavior. Reade deserves to have her claims heard. She deserves the opportunity to bring whatever evidence she has before us all.
If there is a credible claim that Biden assaulted her, he should not get a pass. If he is shown to be guilty of assaulting her, he should be held accountable.
If not, move the hell on.
The hypocrisy of the (R) party should be enough to shame them out of existence, but apparently it is not. The rest of us seem to be willing to put up with it so far, but I wouldn’t push my luck.
wrs
(twas time for me too say that too at last)
wrs
(twas time for me too say that too at last)
I was also BANNEDFORLIFE for disrupting the the conversation.
I was also BANNEDFORLIFE for disrupting the the conversation.
Go on over to TakingItOutside, where you are free to say anyfuckingthingyouwant, even Jesurgislac
Go on over to TakingItOutside, where you are free to say anyfuckingthingyouwant, even Jesurgislac
cleek, BACKINTHEDAY you could walk into The Green Mill and for $15 see Chevere (diChicago) with arguably the worlds best harmonica player, Howard Levy – think seeing Toots Thielemanns live.
cleek, BACKINTHEDAY you could walk into The Green Mill and for $15 see Chevere (diChicago) with arguably the worlds best harmonica player, Howard Levy – think seeing Toots Thielemanns live.
Howard Levy is one hell of a harmonica player.
Howard Levy is one hell of a harmonica player.
Assembly language rules!!!!
as well as FreeScale 68HC16
Assembly language rules!!!!
as well as FreeScale 68HC16
Sweden’s curve.
Sweden’s curve.
Janie, I note that some comments on the twetter thread ASSUME that getting the virus once confers some meaningful kind of long-term immunity. Even though our experience with the usual seasonal flu in that it mutates enough the immunity doesn’t last a year.
I wonder how much of that particular piece of wishful thinking “informs” some of our government’s “planning” for the virus going forward.
Janie, I note that some comments on the twetter thread ASSUME that getting the virus once confers some meaningful kind of long-term immunity. Even though our experience with the usual seasonal flu in that it mutates enough the immunity doesn’t last a year.
I wonder how much of that particular piece of wishful thinking “informs” some of our government’s “planning” for the virus going forward.
Margaret Thatcher’s approval ratings surged by about 35% in response to the Falklands War. Dubya’s by about 50% in response to 9/11.
Both of these crises were partly the leaders’ fault, but that made no difference.
Trump’s approval ratings have risen by about 3% in reaction to the pandemic.
Margaret Thatcher’s approval ratings surged by about 35% in response to the Falklands War. Dubya’s by about 50% in response to 9/11.
Both of these crises were partly the leaders’ fault, but that made no difference.
Trump’s approval ratings have risen by about 3% in reaction to the pandemic.
Other national leaders’ approvals have surged by much more during this crisis. So the difference in Trump’s gain isn’t due to it being a different kind of crisis.
Other national leaders’ approvals have surged by much more during this crisis. So the difference in Trump’s gain isn’t due to it being a different kind of crisis.