by JanieM
russell’s post on drumming has reminded me that there are worlds and worlds that I know nothing about, and sometimes it’s fun to peek into them.
For instance – long ago a carpenter friend who worked in stained glass as a sideline took me to pick out some glass for a window he was helping me make. We went to a rundown neighborhood in Boston, then into a shabby-looking two-story house. Inside the building, the first floor looked like my grandma’s attic: stuff piled everywhere, everything dusty. I was starting to get a little dubious, but I trusted my friend, so I followed him when he headed up a flight of stairs.
At the top, it was like when The Wizard of Oz turns from black-and-white to color.
The second floor of the house had unbroken banks of double-hung windows on three sides, and on every sill – two rows per window – were little rectangles of stained glass. It happened to be a sunny day, and the whole place glinted with color.
It was like wonderland, a beautiful gem hidden in the most misleading of surroundings.
I had a similar experience – at least as to the unknown-ness – when another friend took me to a sailmaker’s shop on Cape Cod.
Conversely, I had a conversation a few years ago with a friend of one of my offspring. This young woman was smart and dazzlingly well-educated, and had been a varsity college basketball player. She had never heard of Pete Seeger, Arlo Guthrie…..or Bill Russell.
What worlds have you stumbled upon that you knew nothing about? Or conversely, what worlds do you know something about, that might surprise the rest of us as the stained glass shop did me?
Open thread.
*****
And – just saw this – RIP Texas school shooting victims. How long, oh Lord…..
my wife and I have a friend who is a greek orthodox icon painter of some repute. he’s not greek orthodox.
everybody has a secret or not-so-secret thing. that’s where life gets interesting.
my wife and I have a friend who is a greek orthodox icon painter of some repute. he’s not greek orthodox.
everybody has a secret or not-so-secret thing. that’s where life gets interesting.
I had to go to a difficult meeting yesterday, and made sure I got there quite early. It was in a very quiet, beautiful, serene London square, with a wonderful garden in the middle (no benches, clearly not for walking in, only for looking at). Out of the corner of my eye, I saw someone opening the back of a van and getting something out – something that opened quite big, beautiful wings! I went closer, and saw that the guy was a falconer, with a beautiful hawk on his leather gauntlet. I said “how long have you been a falconer” and he said ever since he’d left the Royal Navy, a few years. He said he’d learned it all from books, then went to catch this hawk (a Harris Hawk) which had once been a falconer’s but got loose and been feral for 6 months. He stroked it and talked about it with pride and affection. It was extremely beautiful.
This wasn’t a world that was completely new to me; I’d read T H White’s The Once and Future King, and then a non-fiction book he wrote about falconry, and various other things over the years. But this was the first time I’d seen the real thing up close. It was strange and wonderful. This was his job now, he was hired to scare pigeons away from various places. I thought he was a lucky man, to do something he loved so much as a job.
Great post, Janie. I love the description of the sudden jewelled revelation. Stained glass can indeed have an absolutely magical quality.
I had to go to a difficult meeting yesterday, and made sure I got there quite early. It was in a very quiet, beautiful, serene London square, with a wonderful garden in the middle (no benches, clearly not for walking in, only for looking at). Out of the corner of my eye, I saw someone opening the back of a van and getting something out – something that opened quite big, beautiful wings! I went closer, and saw that the guy was a falconer, with a beautiful hawk on his leather gauntlet. I said “how long have you been a falconer” and he said ever since he’d left the Royal Navy, a few years. He said he’d learned it all from books, then went to catch this hawk (a Harris Hawk) which had once been a falconer’s but got loose and been feral for 6 months. He stroked it and talked about it with pride and affection. It was extremely beautiful.
This wasn’t a world that was completely new to me; I’d read T H White’s The Once and Future King, and then a non-fiction book he wrote about falconry, and various other things over the years. But this was the first time I’d seen the real thing up close. It was strange and wonderful. This was his job now, he was hired to scare pigeons away from various places. I thought he was a lucky man, to do something he loved so much as a job.
Great post, Janie. I love the description of the sudden jewelled revelation. Stained glass can indeed have an absolutely magical quality.
GFTNC: We may have mentioned this at some earlier point, but you must read, if you haven’t, Helen McDonald’s “H Is For Hawk”, but it might as well be titled “H Is For The H In T H White”.
GFTNC: We may have mentioned this at some earlier point, but you must read, if you haven’t, Helen McDonald’s “H Is For Hawk”, but it might as well be titled “H Is For The H In T H White”.
GftNC, great story about the falconer. And I hope your meeting went well in the end.
The mention of White’s non-fiction book about falconry reminds me of a similar pairing: Jane Smiley’s novel Horse Heaven, and A Year at the Races — both written by someone who loves and is fascinated by Thoroughbreds, and horses in general.
GftNC, great story about the falconer. And I hope your meeting went well in the end.
The mention of White’s non-fiction book about falconry reminds me of a similar pairing: Jane Smiley’s novel Horse Heaven, and A Year at the Races — both written by someone who loves and is fascinated by Thoroughbreds, and horses in general.
I’ve hung out with people from Bayonne.
I’ve hung out with people from Bayonne.
The world I’ve stumbled into?
Professional musicians. I’ve always loved music, despite having minimal aptitude. (Serious scars on the ear drums do unfortunate things to the ability to create music with others.) But I knew little or nothing about the lives of those in the business.
But the son of one of my Mom’s closest friends is a professional musician. (Keyboard guy with Santana currently. Serious pro.) And lately we’ve gotten to know him and his local buddies. We’re even turning into roadies. 😉
It’s a whole world that I knew of, but definitely didn’t know, for my first half century.
The world I’ve stumbled into?
Professional musicians. I’ve always loved music, despite having minimal aptitude. (Serious scars on the ear drums do unfortunate things to the ability to create music with others.) But I knew little or nothing about the lives of those in the business.
But the son of one of my Mom’s closest friends is a professional musician. (Keyboard guy with Santana currently. Serious pro.) And lately we’ve gotten to know him and his local buddies. We’re even turning into roadies. 😉
It’s a whole world that I knew of, but definitely didn’t know, for my first half century.
I have to confess I too had never heard of Bill Russell… though Wikipedia is great for sports, and despite caring nothing for basketball (apologies), I found his entry both interesting and moving.
In my defence, how many of you have heard of Gary Sobers ?
Or Learie Constantine ?
(Bob might if he’s read CLR James.)
I have to confess I too had never heard of Bill Russell… though Wikipedia is great for sports, and despite caring nothing for basketball (apologies), I found his entry both interesting and moving.
In my defence, how many of you have heard of Gary Sobers ?
Or Learie Constantine ?
(Bob might if he’s read CLR James.)
It’s the guns…
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/its-the-guns/560771/
It’s the guns…
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/its-the-guns/560771/
Once, on a flight from Atlanta to Boston, I scored a rare upgrade and was in first class with Bill Russell seated two or three rows behind me. Naturally, everyone was trying to act cool while mouthing “Bill Russell” and tilting their heads in his direction.
There was a short woman sitting across the aisle from me, and when we landed she struggled a bit getting her luggage down, and it started to fall as she lost control. Everyone noticed, and suddenly there came, “I got it,” from the back and a giant black hand, like the hand of God, appeared and stopped the fall.
Nice moment.
Once, on a flight from Atlanta to Boston, I scored a rare upgrade and was in first class with Bill Russell seated two or three rows behind me. Naturally, everyone was trying to act cool while mouthing “Bill Russell” and tilting their heads in his direction.
There was a short woman sitting across the aisle from me, and when we landed she struggled a bit getting her luggage down, and it started to fall as she lost control. Everyone noticed, and suddenly there came, “I got it,” from the back and a giant black hand, like the hand of God, appeared and stopped the fall.
Nice moment.
Thanks Count. I read a very long excerpt from H is for Hawk when it came out, and resolved to read it in due course, but haven’t yet.
Thanks also, Janie. The meeting was not particularly cheerful, but the hawk was a lovely, luminous moment, and hopefully that is the impression that will last.
Thanks Count. I read a very long excerpt from H is for Hawk when it came out, and resolved to read it in due course, but haven’t yet.
Thanks also, Janie. The meeting was not particularly cheerful, but the hawk was a lovely, luminous moment, and hopefully that is the impression that will last.
Bob might if he’s read CLR James
Sorry, read Toussaint and some of the state capitalism or degenerate socialism (sic?) stuff, some material about James late London years, have the sailor/Moby Dick book lined up, want a biography, probably never get to the cricket material.
Louis Proyect is my veteran communist site, great resources on right sidebar
Bob might if he’s read CLR James
Sorry, read Toussaint and some of the state capitalism or degenerate socialism (sic?) stuff, some material about James late London years, have the sailor/Moby Dick book lined up, want a biography, probably never get to the cricket material.
Louis Proyect is my veteran communist site, great resources on right sidebar
wife has a friend who’s a member of a legitimate big-name rock band. and when they come through town, we get free tickets and can hang out with him backstage.
this last time they were here, they played a really big outdoor amphitheater, and so they had a really big stage show and crew to make it happen – countless roadies and instrument technicians, dozens of buses and trucks. everyone in the band had a personal assistant running around, summoning bottles of booze, doing laundry, managing schedules, relaying messages. it’s a huge undertaking and it’s all very scheduled and coordinated, like a rocket launch or something. but it’s done by people wearing worn-out jeans and faded concert shirts, instead of short-sleeve dress shirts and khakis.
wife has a friend who’s a member of a legitimate big-name rock band. and when they come through town, we get free tickets and can hang out with him backstage.
this last time they were here, they played a really big outdoor amphitheater, and so they had a really big stage show and crew to make it happen – countless roadies and instrument technicians, dozens of buses and trucks. everyone in the band had a personal assistant running around, summoning bottles of booze, doing laundry, managing schedules, relaying messages. it’s a huge undertaking and it’s all very scheduled and coordinated, like a rocket launch or something. but it’s done by people wearing worn-out jeans and faded concert shirts, instead of short-sleeve dress shirts and khakis.
No prob, Bob.
Beyond a Boundary is a fine book, though (whether or not you’re interested in cricket).
No prob, Bob.
Beyond a Boundary is a fine book, though (whether or not you’re interested in cricket).
Nigel — never heard of Gary Sobers, but he sounds interesting too. Will read more when I’m more awake.
I’m not surprised at someone from England (you are, right?) not having heard of Bill Russell. It was a little more surprising in someone who was quite devoted to basketball. It made me think more about how our interests can be fine-tuned — this woman played but wasn’t that much of a fan, whereas I was a fan but had never played except casually, since there were no sports for girls in my school when I was growing up.
Another basketball story — Sports Illustrated once did a feature article on Larry Bird, when he was at the height of his NBA stardom. The reporter went back to Bird’s hometown of French Lick, Indiana, and interviewed some of the local people. When asked about him, one older woman thought a moment and said something like, “Oh, yes, that’s Georgia Bird’s son, he used to mow my lawn, he was a very nice boy.” The exact quote indicated that she barely knew, or cared about, the fact that he was one of the most famous basketball players in the history of the world.
There’s some indication that people were silo-ed long before the internet. 😉
Bernie — nice story………
Nigel — never heard of Gary Sobers, but he sounds interesting too. Will read more when I’m more awake.
I’m not surprised at someone from England (you are, right?) not having heard of Bill Russell. It was a little more surprising in someone who was quite devoted to basketball. It made me think more about how our interests can be fine-tuned — this woman played but wasn’t that much of a fan, whereas I was a fan but had never played except casually, since there were no sports for girls in my school when I was growing up.
Another basketball story — Sports Illustrated once did a feature article on Larry Bird, when he was at the height of his NBA stardom. The reporter went back to Bird’s hometown of French Lick, Indiana, and interviewed some of the local people. When asked about him, one older woman thought a moment and said something like, “Oh, yes, that’s Georgia Bird’s son, he used to mow my lawn, he was a very nice boy.” The exact quote indicated that she barely knew, or cared about, the fact that he was one of the most famous basketball players in the history of the world.
There’s some indication that people were silo-ed long before the internet. 😉
Bernie — nice story………
I take it back – apparently it’s too many doors, not the guns…
I take it back – apparently it’s too many doors, not the guns…
Doors don’t kill people! People do!
Doors don’t kill people! People do!
The Doors killed Jim Morrison.
The Doors killed Jim Morrison.
The Doors killed Jim Morrison.
The doors on toilet cubicles?…
The Doors killed Jim Morrison.
The doors on toilet cubicles?…
Guns don’t kill people, women who don’t put out for men under a regime of enforced monogamy, force men to kill people.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/i-am-a-very-serious-person
A well satisfied male sexual neediness, being necessary to the promiscuity of a whoopie state of priapic excitation, the right of men to keep and fondle bare women, shall not be prophylaxed.
Clearly, the key to stopping these mass killings by men entering schools is to post naked cheerleaders at each entryway at a school building with directions to act disarming.
When God closes a door, he opens a window on behalf of male peeping Toms.
This way to the egress.
My God, I HATE the fucking, stinking conservative movement. May every building they reside in have too many doors.
We could look to free market solutions used to limit poaching endangered species in Africa and elsewhere to ameliorate this crisis, while preserving God’s very lucrative arms merchandising to free Americans.
Public school districts around the country (charter and private schools would be exempted from this program) could open, say, one school per week in their districts to licensed (No? Too much regulation?) gunman to stalk their prey, with a bag limit, say three children per week, for a fee to be paid at the Principal’s Office upon entry, thus limiting the killing and yet satisfying native American blood lust, while allowing most of the individuals in the human species to grow into adulthood to propagate the herd and supply shooting victims in perpetuity.
Of course, child-baiting, perhaps by setting out bowls of Skittles in clearings, would be prohibited. We must maintain humane and sporting standards.
Exits could be locked from without while the hunters are on the premises to accommodate conservative fish-in-a-barrel hunting rules, but the student body would be given a five-minute heads-up to hide.
Perhaps a warning shot could be fired five minutes prior to the slaughter.
Remember, not a single child was incinerated during the 1950s nuclear Red scare because they hid under their desks. It worked.
We can discuss, sort of chew over in bipartisan fashion, whether or not the bag count should be limited to only what the hunters can themselves eat.
The mp sons could spearhead this endeavor.
No spears allowed. Only guns, as the Second Amendment provides.
You want spears, then worship more primitive Gods.
Guns don’t kill people, women who don’t put out for men under a regime of enforced monogamy, force men to kill people.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/i-am-a-very-serious-person
A well satisfied male sexual neediness, being necessary to the promiscuity of a whoopie state of priapic excitation, the right of men to keep and fondle bare women, shall not be prophylaxed.
Clearly, the key to stopping these mass killings by men entering schools is to post naked cheerleaders at each entryway at a school building with directions to act disarming.
When God closes a door, he opens a window on behalf of male peeping Toms.
This way to the egress.
My God, I HATE the fucking, stinking conservative movement. May every building they reside in have too many doors.
We could look to free market solutions used to limit poaching endangered species in Africa and elsewhere to ameliorate this crisis, while preserving God’s very lucrative arms merchandising to free Americans.
Public school districts around the country (charter and private schools would be exempted from this program) could open, say, one school per week in their districts to licensed (No? Too much regulation?) gunman to stalk their prey, with a bag limit, say three children per week, for a fee to be paid at the Principal’s Office upon entry, thus limiting the killing and yet satisfying native American blood lust, while allowing most of the individuals in the human species to grow into adulthood to propagate the herd and supply shooting victims in perpetuity.
Of course, child-baiting, perhaps by setting out bowls of Skittles in clearings, would be prohibited. We must maintain humane and sporting standards.
Exits could be locked from without while the hunters are on the premises to accommodate conservative fish-in-a-barrel hunting rules, but the student body would be given a five-minute heads-up to hide.
Perhaps a warning shot could be fired five minutes prior to the slaughter.
Remember, not a single child was incinerated during the 1950s nuclear Red scare because they hid under their desks. It worked.
We can discuss, sort of chew over in bipartisan fashion, whether or not the bag count should be limited to only what the hunters can themselves eat.
The mp sons could spearhead this endeavor.
No spears allowed. Only guns, as the Second Amendment provides.
You want spears, then worship more primitive Gods.
…limiting the killing and yet satisfying native American blood lust
“native American blood lust”??? I am trying, without success, to recall a case of a Native American committing a school shooting. Perhaps you could inform me of what I seem to have missed.
…limiting the killing and yet satisfying native American blood lust
“native American blood lust”??? I am trying, without success, to recall a case of a Native American committing a school shooting. Perhaps you could inform me of what I seem to have missed.
“In the wake of the shooting, threats were made against several students belonging to the Tulalip tribe, the Native American tribe Fryberg belonged to.”
Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting
“In the wake of the shooting, threats were made against several students belonging to the Tulalip tribe, the Native American tribe Fryberg belonged to.”
Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting
wj — the Count can obviously speak for himself, but I took the difference between “native American” and “Native American” to be relevant to his comment.
*****
Speaking of Bill Russell’s hands (byomtov @8:56), Jon Stewart once had Jerry Rice (“widely considered to be the greatest wide receiver in NFL history”) on his show. Rice’s hands, up close, were amazing.
For fun — the statue of Bill Russell at Boston City Hall, which I happened upon in an excursion downtown not long after it had been erected:
wj — the Count can obviously speak for himself, but I took the difference between “native American” and “Native American” to be relevant to his comment.
*****
Speaking of Bill Russell’s hands (byomtov @8:56), Jon Stewart once had Jerry Rice (“widely considered to be the greatest wide receiver in NFL history”) on his show. Rice’s hands, up close, were amazing.
For fun — the statue of Bill Russell at Boston City Hall, which I happened upon in an excursion downtown not long after it had been erected:
Countme-a-Demon | May 19, 2018 at 03:56 PM
Interesting exposition. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I have espoused Socialist, even Communist, ideas and have been called a supporter of Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. Supporting a reduction in wealth inequality makes me want to slaughter entire classes of people I guess. There is a subset of economic conservatives, and libertarians too, who take the very real evils of some people, as well as failed ideals that are a part of economic leftist and even liberal ideologies, and use it to smear, insult, and discredit anyone and anything not the limited part of what they consider Conservative.
Suggesting to some that perhaps some of the Deplorables might have good reasons for not voting Clinton, or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists) have gotten me accused of racism, sexism, and a supporter of hate.
The persistent efforts of the political establishment to split the American population into just two very intellectually limiting ideological straight-jackets is part of a divide and conquer strategy. There has also been a massive distortion and corruption of our language concurrent with it, which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.
Countme-a-Demon | May 19, 2018 at 03:56 PM
Interesting exposition. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I have espoused Socialist, even Communist, ideas and have been called a supporter of Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. Supporting a reduction in wealth inequality makes me want to slaughter entire classes of people I guess. There is a subset of economic conservatives, and libertarians too, who take the very real evils of some people, as well as failed ideals that are a part of economic leftist and even liberal ideologies, and use it to smear, insult, and discredit anyone and anything not the limited part of what they consider Conservative.
Suggesting to some that perhaps some of the Deplorables might have good reasons for not voting Clinton, or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists) have gotten me accused of racism, sexism, and a supporter of hate.
The persistent efforts of the political establishment to split the American population into just two very intellectually limiting ideological straight-jackets is part of a divide and conquer strategy. There has also been a massive distortion and corruption of our language concurrent with it, which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.
Do you have anything to say, JBird, that’s not right out of a resentment/Sochlist/Russianot playbook?
Do you have some policy ideas, for example?
Do you have anything to say, JBird, that’s not right out of a resentment/Sochlist/Russianot playbook?
Do you have some policy ideas, for example?
You say JBird:
There has also been a massive distortion and corruption of our language concurrent with it, which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.
Could you provide some examples?
My guess is no.
You say JBird:
There has also been a massive distortion and corruption of our language concurrent with it, which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.
Could you provide some examples?
My guess is no.
Suggesting to some that perhaps some of the Deplorables might have good reasons for not voting Clinton, or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists) have gotten me accused of racism, sexism, and a supporter of hate.
I’m thinking that if you’re supporting “Deplorables”, you might actually be a racist, sexist, and supporter of hate.
Suggesting to some that perhaps some of the Deplorables might have good reasons for not voting Clinton, or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists) have gotten me accused of racism, sexism, and a supporter of hate.
I’m thinking that if you’re supporting “Deplorables”, you might actually be a racist, sexist, and supporter of hate.
the Count can obviously speak for himself, but I took the difference between “native American” and “Native American” to be relevant to his comment.
Janie, it may well be the case that by (lower case) “native American” he meant what is otherwise styled “real American”. Indeed, that was my thought when I initially read his words. But then the (nasty-minded, I admit) temptation to misconstrue overwhelmed me. Mea culpa!
the Count can obviously speak for himself, but I took the difference between “native American” and “Native American” to be relevant to his comment.
Janie, it may well be the case that by (lower case) “native American” he meant what is otherwise styled “real American”. Indeed, that was my thought when I initially read his words. But then the (nasty-minded, I admit) temptation to misconstrue overwhelmed me. Mea culpa!
Do you have anything to say, JBird, that’s not right out of a resentment/Sochlist/Russianot playbook?
Let’s face it, sapient. JBird has achieved the previously almost inconceivable (at least to me) feat of making Bob McManus seem a marvel of reality-based open-mindedness and intellectual flexibility. I own myself quite impressed, if someone far more conservative may say so.
Do you have anything to say, JBird, that’s not right out of a resentment/Sochlist/Russianot playbook?
Let’s face it, sapient. JBird has achieved the previously almost inconceivable (at least to me) feat of making Bob McManus seem a marvel of reality-based open-mindedness and intellectual flexibility. I own myself quite impressed, if someone far more conservative may say so.
Again, wj. We agree.
I’m suspicious of JBird. I call him out as a Russian troll, unless he can manage a policy argument.
Again, wj. We agree.
I’m suspicious of JBird. I call him out as a Russian troll, unless he can manage a policy argument.
Also, the World Socialists: delivering economic equality since 1917!!!!!
Also, the World Socialists: delivering economic equality since 1917!!!!!
see Janie’s native American versus Native American.
I nearly changed that as I wrote but thought, welp, leave it and let’s see what happens.
In the back of my mind, I was vaguely thinking about an interview I saw with Ann Coulter in which someone or other asked if her forebears were immigrants, and she said no, they were settlers.
American settlers. Why, she’s a native American, she thinks.
I thought that was a bit of a pig in a poke(ahontas).
JBird:
No sweat.
“which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.”
Most of my extended family, many originating from
hillbilly haven Middletown, Ohio, my birthplace, and most of my friends still among the living are fairly straight-ahead conservatives.
I’m no great fan of Hillary Clinton, until we consider the alternative, and there was only one disastrously real one of those in real time.
“or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists)”
Yes, Rod Dreher at the American Conservative doesn’t approve at all of soulless American consumer capitalism, which I find to be a nice respite from his endlessly tedious justifications for discriminating against the LGBT cohort.
“The persistent efforts of the political establishment to split the American population into just two very intellectually limiting ideological straight-jackets is part of a divide and conquer strategy.”
Yes, well, the so-called conservative movement has been malignly and organizationally better at it.
The American population is hereby split, torn asunder, just as the elites in the Confederacy achieved during the 1850s.
I’ve picked a side.
I’ll have whatever General Grant was drinking.
see Janie’s native American versus Native American.
I nearly changed that as I wrote but thought, welp, leave it and let’s see what happens.
In the back of my mind, I was vaguely thinking about an interview I saw with Ann Coulter in which someone or other asked if her forebears were immigrants, and she said no, they were settlers.
American settlers. Why, she’s a native American, she thinks.
I thought that was a bit of a pig in a poke(ahontas).
JBird:
No sweat.
“which also prevents people from having ungood thoughts and having conversations with the Bad People.”
Most of my extended family, many originating from
hillbilly haven Middletown, Ohio, my birthplace, and most of my friends still among the living are fairly straight-ahead conservatives.
I’m no great fan of Hillary Clinton, until we consider the alternative, and there was only one disastrously real one of those in real time.
“or maybe some of the socially conservative might have some points about social cohesion, ethics, and morality (some really dislike the worship of Money and the Free Market just like many leftists)”
Yes, Rod Dreher at the American Conservative doesn’t approve at all of soulless American consumer capitalism, which I find to be a nice respite from his endlessly tedious justifications for discriminating against the LGBT cohort.
“The persistent efforts of the political establishment to split the American population into just two very intellectually limiting ideological straight-jackets is part of a divide and conquer strategy.”
Yes, well, the so-called conservative movement has been malignly and organizationally better at it.
The American population is hereby split, torn asunder, just as the elites in the Confederacy achieved during the 1850s.
I’ve picked a side.
I’ll have whatever General Grant was drinking.
I’ve picked a side.
Thanks. I hope it wasn’t hard, because if it was, I’m, ummm … how do you say … disappointed.
I’ve picked a side.
Thanks. I hope it wasn’t hard, because if it was, I’m, ummm … how do you say … disappointed.
It occurs to me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence. But then, perhaps Obsidian Wings is obscure enough that we only get a rank novice. They gotta train somewhere, I guess….
It occurs to me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence. But then, perhaps Obsidian Wings is obscure enough that we only get a rank novice. They gotta train somewhere, I guess….
It occurs to me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence.
The training level doesn’t need to be very high given the dupishness of a lot of Deplorables.
It occurs to me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence.
The training level doesn’t need to be very high given the dupishness of a lot of Deplorables.
I’m an aspiring fused-glass artist. Last summer I took a course at Bullseye Glass in Portland, OR. Part of the class was a tour of the manufacturing facility.
It was all amazing, fascinating. I knew there’s an entire apothecary of chemicals that go into making art glass, but it’s something else to see a whole cabinet of them. Bullseye’s founders were, IIRC, a couple of good ol boy hippies who started out melting down discarded bottles for use in stained glass. They very soon realized providing reliably colored, firable glass to artists could be a Big Thing and got serious about figuring out formulae for colors, textures, reactions, and so on. There was still an element of great fun: “Hey! Let’s put Substance X in the mix and see what happens!”
Bullseye has an entire bank of cauldrons for its sheet glass. Workers bring huge gathers of the molten stuff to rollers, toss the blob in, and roll out sheets. They make the “streakies” by adding pigment to the gather before tossing it and rolling it out. It requires some serious expertise, and no small about of faith, since molten glass is a uniform glowing red and you have no idea what it’ll look like until it cools.
Glass is magic stuff.
I’m an aspiring fused-glass artist. Last summer I took a course at Bullseye Glass in Portland, OR. Part of the class was a tour of the manufacturing facility.
It was all amazing, fascinating. I knew there’s an entire apothecary of chemicals that go into making art glass, but it’s something else to see a whole cabinet of them. Bullseye’s founders were, IIRC, a couple of good ol boy hippies who started out melting down discarded bottles for use in stained glass. They very soon realized providing reliably colored, firable glass to artists could be a Big Thing and got serious about figuring out formulae for colors, textures, reactions, and so on. There was still an element of great fun: “Hey! Let’s put Substance X in the mix and see what happens!”
Bullseye has an entire bank of cauldrons for its sheet glass. Workers bring huge gathers of the molten stuff to rollers, toss the blob in, and roll out sheets. They make the “streakies” by adding pigment to the gather before tossing it and rolling it out. It requires some serious expertise, and no small about of faith, since molten glass is a uniform glowing red and you have no idea what it’ll look like until it cools.
Glass is magic stuff.
Glass is cool. Craftspeople of all kinds are doing some things. Even ephemeral soap craftspeople – try working with that lye. You go, y’all!
Keeping beautiful things around? That’s so lovely, and in future ages, the gratitude will abound.
Glass is cool. Craftspeople of all kinds are doing some things. Even ephemeral soap craftspeople – try working with that lye. You go, y’all!
Keeping beautiful things around? That’s so lovely, and in future ages, the gratitude will abound.
Back to JBird. A Russian troll. Prove otherwise.
Back to JBird. A Russian troll. Prove otherwise.
It occurs 0 me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence. But then, perhaps Obsidian Wings is obscure enough that we only get a rank novice. They gotta train somewhere, I guess….
Good grief, I am not just a troll, I am a Russian Troll!
I’ve hit the big time.
🙂
More seriously, I have been reading Obsidian Wings for more than a decade(?) I think. Certainly when Hilzoy posted.
Anyways, it’s just fine to disagree with me, or critique my overlong posts. I am often wrong. The soshulism-Russian-troll insults are nice. I am a socialist, so that’s not an insult.
Yes, well, the so-called conservative movement has been malignly and organizationally better at it.
The top down hierarchical organization of theirs is pain. They also started purging their “RINOs” a few decades ago. That is conservatives who weren’t good little drones, but like Drehr, make their own decisions.
The American population is hereby split, torn asunder, just as the elites in the Confederacy achieved during the 1850s.
The Southern elites ultimately won. Check out the leading families from before the Civil War and now are much alike. In places like Alabama, unchanged. The poor and working class Southern whites died, or were crippled in massive numbers, and lost much of their wealth, blacks were re-enslaved for about a century, and let’s not forget the North too. However, the Southern elites after a few decades were doing just fine.
I’ve picked a side.
I’ll have whatever General Grant was drinking.
Good. Just remember who your enemies truly are. Get the God D—- leadership, the ruling elites and especially their stolen wealth, not the their bullyboy patsies.
It occurs 0 me that a Russian troll would likely be better trained in coherence. But then, perhaps Obsidian Wings is obscure enough that we only get a rank novice. They gotta train somewhere, I guess….
Good grief, I am not just a troll, I am a Russian Troll!
I’ve hit the big time.
🙂
More seriously, I have been reading Obsidian Wings for more than a decade(?) I think. Certainly when Hilzoy posted.
Anyways, it’s just fine to disagree with me, or critique my overlong posts. I am often wrong. The soshulism-Russian-troll insults are nice. I am a socialist, so that’s not an insult.
Yes, well, the so-called conservative movement has been malignly and organizationally better at it.
The top down hierarchical organization of theirs is pain. They also started purging their “RINOs” a few decades ago. That is conservatives who weren’t good little drones, but like Drehr, make their own decisions.
The American population is hereby split, torn asunder, just as the elites in the Confederacy achieved during the 1850s.
The Southern elites ultimately won. Check out the leading families from before the Civil War and now are much alike. In places like Alabama, unchanged. The poor and working class Southern whites died, or were crippled in massive numbers, and lost much of their wealth, blacks were re-enslaved for about a century, and let’s not forget the North too. However, the Southern elites after a few decades were doing just fine.
I’ve picked a side.
I’ll have whatever General Grant was drinking.
Good. Just remember who your enemies truly are. Get the God D—- leadership, the ruling elites and especially their stolen wealth, not the their bullyboy patsies.
I lived in Bisbee, AZ lifetime ago. The copper mine was shut down, big tourist hole in the ground they got out of filling by making it a landmark. Besides some of the best turquoise in the world stil came out of the mine.
The town was a haven for recent hippies and artisans of all types. Leather goods, glass blowing, stained glass and, of course, silver and turquoise jewelry.
One of the most amazing parts was the turquoise inlaid silver cap that Bisbee Bob had on his front tooth I learned from Bob how to make jewelry, I made several dozen rings that he sold. His best pieces were amazing but he turned out lots of tourist pieces that he flew to Hawaii to sell in the early 70’s.
I still look at nice turquoise pieces to see if they could be his.
I lived in Bisbee, AZ lifetime ago. The copper mine was shut down, big tourist hole in the ground they got out of filling by making it a landmark. Besides some of the best turquoise in the world stil came out of the mine.
The town was a haven for recent hippies and artisans of all types. Leather goods, glass blowing, stained glass and, of course, silver and turquoise jewelry.
One of the most amazing parts was the turquoise inlaid silver cap that Bisbee Bob had on his front tooth I learned from Bob how to make jewelry, I made several dozen rings that he sold. His best pieces were amazing but he turned out lots of tourist pieces that he flew to Hawaii to sell in the early 70’s.
I still look at nice turquoise pieces to see if they could be his.
JBird, Have you come up with a plan? Policy is boring, and hard. And bots don’t do it.
JBird, Have you come up with a plan? Policy is boring, and hard. And bots don’t do it.
More seriously, I have been reading Obsidian Wings for more than a decade(?) I think. Certainly when Hilzoy posted.
Great assignment! How much were you paid in US dollars?
More seriously, I have been reading Obsidian Wings for more than a decade(?) I think. Certainly when Hilzoy posted.
Great assignment! How much were you paid in US dollars?
JBird does make a couple of excellent points.
First, not all trolls are Russians who merely doing it for pay. Some of them are merely noxious personalities. If he wants to claim to be such, it could be true.
Second, there are also those who merely believe the demonstrably false, simply because they are unable to face reality. The right happens to be the home the more blatant examples at the moment. But the left has never lacked for them. So it’s entirely possible that he is one of those instead.
JBird does make a couple of excellent points.
First, not all trolls are Russians who merely doing it for pay. Some of them are merely noxious personalities. If he wants to claim to be such, it could be true.
Second, there are also those who merely believe the demonstrably false, simply because they are unable to face reality. The right happens to be the home the more blatant examples at the moment. But the left has never lacked for them. So it’s entirely possible that he is one of those instead.
True, wj. Absolutely true.
True, wj. Absolutely true.
JBird, Have you come up with a plan? Policy is boring, and hard. And bots don’t do it.
Sorry, I do not have any, but the vaguest ideas, which is why I am back in college. WTF do I know? People far more intelligent, knowledgeable, and wiser have fracked it. I have to try something because whining about the whole mess is just useless. If we’re both alive in thirty years, let me email (or whatever is being used then) you from my wheel chair, and we’ll see how I did.
JBird, Have you come up with a plan? Policy is boring, and hard. And bots don’t do it.
Sorry, I do not have any, but the vaguest ideas, which is why I am back in college. WTF do I know? People far more intelligent, knowledgeable, and wiser have fracked it. I have to try something because whining about the whole mess is just useless. If we’re both alive in thirty years, let me email (or whatever is being used then) you from my wheel chair, and we’ll see how I did.
Glass is magic stuff.
liquid that stands still
I lived in Bisbee, AZ lifetime ago
i miss tha 70’s sometimes. the world seemed a lot more wide-open then.
cool story marty.
I’m thinking JBird may be an odd duck but probably not a troll.
time will tell.
in any case, obwi’s a come one come all joint.
Glass is magic stuff.
liquid that stands still
I lived in Bisbee, AZ lifetime ago
i miss tha 70’s sometimes. the world seemed a lot more wide-open then.
cool story marty.
I’m thinking JBird may be an odd duck but probably not a troll.
time will tell.
in any case, obwi’s a come one come all joint.
Just to say I not only know who Gary Sobers is, I saw him hit a Test century at Lords. (Also saw Greg Chappell hit one at the SCG and David Gower hit one at The Oval.)
Never saw Bill Russell in person, but followed his career since he led the University of San Francisco (!) to two NCAA championships back in the mid 1950s.
I know Arlo and Pete only from TV, records, etc., but I heard Bob Dylan at the Newport Folk Festival in 1963.
As some nameless singers used to intone:
“I get around / I get around . . .”
Just to say I not only know who Gary Sobers is, I saw him hit a Test century at Lords. (Also saw Greg Chappell hit one at the SCG and David Gower hit one at The Oval.)
Never saw Bill Russell in person, but followed his career since he led the University of San Francisco (!) to two NCAA championships back in the mid 1950s.
I know Arlo and Pete only from TV, records, etc., but I heard Bob Dylan at the Newport Folk Festival in 1963.
As some nameless singers used to intone:
“I get around / I get around . . .”
Not magic, but unexpected…
20 or so years ago, I was working at a giant telecom company when internet access service was becoming a serious thing. During some data mining operation, the billing folks came up with a DS3 linking a warehouse in a sketchy part of town to an ISP location nearby. (For the youngsters, a DS3 was 45 Mbps, which was a serious chunk of bandwidth at that time.) It was unusual enough the company wanted to know more. I had been the “TCP/IP is the future” guy at the company for some years and was attached to the group that was supposed to find out what was going on.
Inside the warehouse were dozens of small curtained-off areas. In each one was a bed, a video camera, a (for the time) quite powerful PC, and a young woman with a headset. The women’s attire ranged from completely nude up to quite involved costuming. Pre-paid customers got 30 minutes of live audio/video of a woman fulfilling answers to the question “What would you like to watch me do?”
We were allowed to talk briefly with a couple of the women. They seemed to be pleased with the physical safety of the arrangement and that they got a paycheck every two weeks. I assume such services are done in a distributed fashion today, no need for the warehouse.
Not magic, but unexpected…
20 or so years ago, I was working at a giant telecom company when internet access service was becoming a serious thing. During some data mining operation, the billing folks came up with a DS3 linking a warehouse in a sketchy part of town to an ISP location nearby. (For the youngsters, a DS3 was 45 Mbps, which was a serious chunk of bandwidth at that time.) It was unusual enough the company wanted to know more. I had been the “TCP/IP is the future” guy at the company for some years and was attached to the group that was supposed to find out what was going on.
Inside the warehouse were dozens of small curtained-off areas. In each one was a bed, a video camera, a (for the time) quite powerful PC, and a young woman with a headset. The women’s attire ranged from completely nude up to quite involved costuming. Pre-paid customers got 30 minutes of live audio/video of a woman fulfilling answers to the question “What would you like to watch me do?”
We were allowed to talk briefly with a couple of the women. They seemed to be pleased with the physical safety of the arrangement and that they got a paycheck every two weeks. I assume such services are done in a distributed fashion today, no need for the warehouse.
Michael Cain…wow.
Michael Cain…wow.
They seemed to be pleased with the physical safety of the arrangement and that they got a paycheck every two weeks.
If the US could get over its hang-ups with sex work and repeal the criminal laws against it, thousands of people could have good incomes in safe working conditions.
They seemed to be pleased with the physical safety of the arrangement and that they got a paycheck every two weeks.
If the US could get over its hang-ups with sex work and repeal the criminal laws against it, thousands of people could have good incomes in safe working conditions.
I suspect that’s a necessary but not entirely sufficient condition, Charles. Even locally, with black markets in nannies, maids, all sorts of day labor in construction, I suspect there will still be a black market in sex work where it’s a lot more dangerous. Smaller than it is today, but still present.
I suspect that’s a necessary but not entirely sufficient condition, Charles. Even locally, with black markets in nannies, maids, all sorts of day labor in construction, I suspect there will still be a black market in sex work where it’s a lot more dangerous. Smaller than it is today, but still present.
“Sex work” includes marrying rich dirty old men, which is already perfectly legal and so little-frowned-upon that it is not even a bar to becoming “First Lady”.
–TP
“Sex work” includes marrying rich dirty old men, which is already perfectly legal and so little-frowned-upon that it is not even a bar to becoming “First Lady”.
–TP
There’ll always be a black market for products and services where there’s greater than a marginal cost burden due to regulations and taxes. Some states that have legalized marijuana are finding this out.
There’ll always be a black market for products and services where there’s greater than a marginal cost burden due to regulations and taxes. Some states that have legalized marijuana are finding this out.
Open thread, Nick Srnicek, Technology After Capitalism:
On the other hand, if this is not free labour, then these firms are parasitical on other valueproducing industries and global capitalism is in a more dire state. A quick glance at the stagnating global economy suggests that the latter is more likely.
“Rather than exploiting free labour, the position taken here is that advertising platforms appropriate data as a raw material. The activities of users and institutions, if they are recorded and transformed into data, become a raw material that can be refined and used in a variety of ways by platforms.”
1) User data can also be viewed as history and as “dead” labour…same thing.
2) By theorizing user data as a raw material like oil or timber he naturalizes a commodity and erases history and labour. This is a liberal/neoliberal move, everybody all brand new in Murica.
3) He does have a point that seeing my playing venomancer in dota 2 as either labour or commodity is not intuitive. Yet money is made. Work’s yet to be done.
Open thread, Nick Srnicek, Technology After Capitalism:
On the other hand, if this is not free labour, then these firms are parasitical on other valueproducing industries and global capitalism is in a more dire state. A quick glance at the stagnating global economy suggests that the latter is more likely.
“Rather than exploiting free labour, the position taken here is that advertising platforms appropriate data as a raw material. The activities of users and institutions, if they are recorded and transformed into data, become a raw material that can be refined and used in a variety of ways by platforms.”
1) User data can also be viewed as history and as “dead” labour…same thing.
2) By theorizing user data as a raw material like oil or timber he naturalizes a commodity and erases history and labour. This is a liberal/neoliberal move, everybody all brand new in Murica.
3) He does have a point that seeing my playing venomancer in dota 2 as either labour or commodity is not intuitive. Yet money is made. Work’s yet to be done.
Just to say I not only know who Gary Sobers is, I saw him hit a Test century at Lords…
I’m jealous.
Gower was probably my favourite batsman to watch… until Pietersen came along. Both fell foul of the suits.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/feb/21/joy-of-six-kevin-pietersen
Just to say I not only know who Gary Sobers is, I saw him hit a Test century at Lords…
I’m jealous.
Gower was probably my favourite batsman to watch… until Pietersen came along. Both fell foul of the suits.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/feb/21/joy-of-six-kevin-pietersen
Breaking news: Trump cancels summit with North Korea.
All I can say is Whew!!! The prospect of someone who is clueless about details (or, to a large extent, broad strokes) negotiating anything is downright scary. I think we dodged a bullet here.
Breaking news: Trump cancels summit with North Korea.
All I can say is Whew!!! The prospect of someone who is clueless about details (or, to a large extent, broad strokes) negotiating anything is downright scary. I think we dodged a bullet here.
wj, Whew!! indeed.
It would be interesting to know what role the translators would have played……
wj, Whew!! indeed.
It would be interesting to know what role the translators would have played……
Whew! Thank goodness we aren’t having a summit to negotiate a permanent end to the Korean conflict and an actual denuclearization agreement.
That would have been awful.
While I think from a diplomatic standpoint this pull out is pretty well played, it is still disappointing that we haven’t gotten to the table.
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good. Which is counterproductive.
Whew! Thank goodness we aren’t having a summit to negotiate a permanent end to the Korean conflict and an actual denuclearization agreement.
That would have been awful.
While I think from a diplomatic standpoint this pull out is pretty well played, it is still disappointing that we haven’t gotten to the table.
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good. Which is counterproductive.
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good. Which is counterproductive.
Relief isn’t celebration. Of course, it should be obvious that those expressing relief don’t think Trump is capable of accomplishing anything good diplomatically, more likely he would screw things up, maybe badly.
Trump is the drunk who finally handed over his car keys. Yet Marty wants to know why we don’t want him to get home safely.
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good. Which is counterproductive.
Relief isn’t celebration. Of course, it should be obvious that those expressing relief don’t think Trump is capable of accomplishing anything good diplomatically, more likely he would screw things up, maybe badly.
Trump is the drunk who finally handed over his car keys. Yet Marty wants to know why we don’t want him to get home safely.
Is Marty still under the impression that he’s not a supporter of He, Trump?
–TP
Is Marty still under the impression that he’s not a supporter of He, Trump?
–TP
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good.
I would be positively delighted were Trump to accomplish something good. I just recognize that his grasp of the issues is nil and his ability to negotiate has repeatedly been shown to be somewhere between minimal and nonexistent.
I don’t understand a celebratory reaction unless one simply wants Trump to not accomplish anything good.
I would be positively delighted were Trump to accomplish something good. I just recognize that his grasp of the issues is nil and his ability to negotiate has repeatedly been shown to be somewhere between minimal and nonexistent.
Breaking news: Trump cancels summit with North Korea.
but he already took two or three victory laps! he had coins made! NOBEL PRIZE!
and now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again. North and South Korea are going to do their own thing.
good job, Stupid Party.
Breaking news: Trump cancels summit with North Korea.
but he already took two or three victory laps! he had coins made! NOBEL PRIZE!
and now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again. North and South Korea are going to do their own thing.
good job, Stupid Party.
now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again.
By this point, I think most of the world is differentiating Trump and the US.
They may think us stupid for electing him. But that’s pretty much baked in by now.
now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again.
By this point, I think most of the world is differentiating Trump and the US.
They may think us stupid for electing him. But that’s pretty much baked in by now.
People don’t expect much from you when they know you have a bad case of the flu. But they also expect it to pass, and that you’ll be back to your normal self at some point. The Trump administration is the United States’ bad case of the flu.
People don’t expect much from you when they know you have a bad case of the flu. But they also expect it to pass, and that you’ll be back to your normal self at some point. The Trump administration is the United States’ bad case of the flu.
I’m not relieved: this, and the Iran/Saudi/Israel policy shift, is incredibly dangerous – the damage is already done.
I’m not relieved: this, and the Iran/Saudi/Israel policy shift, is incredibly dangerous – the damage is already done.
the damage is already done.
Say, rather, some (even lots of) damage is already done. But I, for one, wouldn’t underestimate the amount of additional damage that could be achieved. I think it’s unwise to underestimate Trump’s aptitude in such endeavours. His track record speaks for itself.
the damage is already done.
Say, rather, some (even lots of) damage is already done. But I, for one, wouldn’t underestimate the amount of additional damage that could be achieved. I think it’s unwise to underestimate Trump’s aptitude in such endeavours. His track record speaks for itself.
“now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again.
”
this is just completely missing the flow of events. This cancellation was coordinated with South Korea, and was the best negotiating tactic available based on North Koreas recent bluster.
This is one of his better moves. But see it’s not a question of supporting Trump. You either support the policy of engaging North Korea or not.
The comments here are about whether he can walk and chew gum at the same time. Which one can do and still be an ass.
I have consistently said I support many of his (Republican) policies.
“now the US looks stupid, and irrelevant. again.
”
this is just completely missing the flow of events. This cancellation was coordinated with South Korea, and was the best negotiating tactic available based on North Koreas recent bluster.
This is one of his better moves. But see it’s not a question of supporting Trump. You either support the policy of engaging North Korea or not.
The comments here are about whether he can walk and chew gum at the same time. Which one can do and still be an ass.
I have consistently said I support many of his (Republican) policies.
This is one of his better moves.
I thought you were upset because you thought people here were happy about it.
This is one of his better moves.
I thought you were upset because you thought people here were happy about it.
That would have been awful.
He shoulda told Bolton and Pence to STFU.
This is one of his better moves.
OK, whatever.
That would have been awful.
He shoulda told Bolton and Pence to STFU.
This is one of his better moves.
OK, whatever.
This is one of his better moves. But see it’s not a question of supporting Trump. You either support the policy of engaging North Korea or not.
Engagement can be (to my mind is) a good policy. That doesn’t mean that setting up a summit, with zero advance work and featuring someone who has minimal information about the whole situation, is a good idea. Who is doing the engagement, and with what expectations, is also important.
This is one of his better moves. But see it’s not a question of supporting Trump. You either support the policy of engaging North Korea or not.
Engagement can be (to my mind is) a good policy. That doesn’t mean that setting up a summit, with zero advance work and featuring someone who has minimal information about the whole situation, is a good idea. Who is doing the engagement, and with what expectations, is also important.
This cancellation was coordinated with South Korea
Are you sure?
This cancellation was coordinated with South Korea
Are you sure?
also, too.
also, too.
Who knows, maybe he could have pulled something good off.
Seems bloody unlikely now.
Who knows, maybe he could have pulled something good off.
Seems bloody unlikely now.
This is one of his better moves.
it was a circus from the start. everyone involved on the US side kept stepping on each other’s message. they hyped it as total NK nuclear disarmament from the very start and left themselves no negotiating room at all.
i guess we could assume that means they were never interested in negotiating at all. but if that’s the case, then what they were trying to do isn’t clear. because they made themselves look very foolish as they fumbled around incoherently, tripping over each other, and making ridiculous pronouncements. while NK sat there and gawked.
at the end of this, NK looks pretty shrewd.
Trump got played: either by Kim, or by himself.
This is one of his better moves.
it was a circus from the start. everyone involved on the US side kept stepping on each other’s message. they hyped it as total NK nuclear disarmament from the very start and left themselves no negotiating room at all.
i guess we could assume that means they were never interested in negotiating at all. but if that’s the case, then what they were trying to do isn’t clear. because they made themselves look very foolish as they fumbled around incoherently, tripping over each other, and making ridiculous pronouncements. while NK sat there and gawked.
at the end of this, NK looks pretty shrewd.
Trump got played: either by Kim, or by himself.
From Adam Silverman at BJ: Not only did the President not give Moon a heads up, he also decided to blindside the DPRK too!
From Adam Silverman at BJ: Not only did the President not give Moon a heads up, he also decided to blindside the DPRK too!
Trump got played: either by Kim, or by himself.
Let’s not forget China in the shadowy background.
Trump got played: either by Kim, or by himself.
Let’s not forget China in the shadowy background.
As despicable as the Northern Kim and his regime are, they would have to have a strong death wish to consider giving up their nukes (or the credible claim to possess them).
They know that the US cannot be trusted (at least not with GOPsters in charge or potentially in charge at a later time).
And Bolton put the cherry on top by recommeding to NK the Lybian option.
I somehow doubt that the Northern Kim sees it as his goal to get beaten and stabbed to death in the streets.
As despicable as the Northern Kim and his regime are, they would have to have a strong death wish to consider giving up their nukes (or the credible claim to possess them).
They know that the US cannot be trusted (at least not with GOPsters in charge or potentially in charge at a later time).
And Bolton put the cherry on top by recommeding to NK the Lybian option.
I somehow doubt that the Northern Kim sees it as his goal to get beaten and stabbed to death in the streets.
Marty: I have consistently said I support many of his (Republican) policies.
You have also generally defended He, Trump on non-policy matters. Maybe it’s because you don’t care whether He is a pussy-grabbing, race-baiting, Putin-ass-licking, kleptocrat as long as He pushes your favored “(Republican)” policies — I can’t read your mind.
But I would seriously like to know: WHICH of His “(Republican)” policies do you “support”? Holding Dreamers hostage for His wall? Dumping the Iran deal? Raising the “national” debt by $1T so He can give the money to His fat-cat supporters?
And, on a non-policy matter: what say you, Marty, about He, Trump’s off-hand musings that NFL players who don’t toe the line on His caricature of “patriotism” probably “don’t belong in the country”?
–TP
Marty: I have consistently said I support many of his (Republican) policies.
You have also generally defended He, Trump on non-policy matters. Maybe it’s because you don’t care whether He is a pussy-grabbing, race-baiting, Putin-ass-licking, kleptocrat as long as He pushes your favored “(Republican)” policies — I can’t read your mind.
But I would seriously like to know: WHICH of His “(Republican)” policies do you “support”? Holding Dreamers hostage for His wall? Dumping the Iran deal? Raising the “national” debt by $1T so He can give the money to His fat-cat supporters?
And, on a non-policy matter: what say you, Marty, about He, Trump’s off-hand musings that NFL players who don’t toe the line on His caricature of “patriotism” probably “don’t belong in the country”?
–TP
But I would seriously like to know
I don’t like to speak for Marty, but from his comments here I think it’s:
* tax cuts
* de-regulation, especially business and financial
* the market’s doing pretty good
If I’m not speaking accurately for Marty, I’m speaking accurately for the “we like him because he’s a business guy!” types that I know.
But I would seriously like to know
I don’t like to speak for Marty, but from his comments here I think it’s:
* tax cuts
* de-regulation, especially business and financial
* the market’s doing pretty good
If I’m not speaking accurately for Marty, I’m speaking accurately for the “we like him because he’s a business guy!” types that I know.
You have to be a very shortsighted business type (which, admittedly, many of them seem to be) to see Trump and his administration** as anything but a turbocharger on the road to a disaster.
** Notice how I deftly avoided implying the existance of actual economic “policies”. Since, as far as I can tell, the only consistent policies are:
You have to be a very shortsighted business type (which, admittedly, many of them seem to be) to see Trump and his administration** as anything but a turbocharger on the road to a disaster.
** Notice how I deftly avoided implying the existance of actual economic “policies”. Since, as far as I can tell, the only consistent policies are:
and he just added: threatening car import tariffs of up to 25%!
i’m so old i remember when the GOP was the Free Trade™ party.
and he just added: threatening car import tariffs of up to 25%!
i’m so old i remember when the GOP was the Free Trade™ party.
Two and a half years to go.
Two and a half years to go.
* tax cuts
* de-regulation, especially the overreach the last administration put in place with questionable legal basis
* Compromise policy on immigration
* Gorsuch
* Paris Accords
* Iran in General
* North Korea
* Israel
* Shared Infrastructure Investment
* Charter Schools everywhere
* ACA policy
* NATO pulling its own weight
* Tariffs as an actual bargaining tool rather than the long standing policy of asking the WTO to create an even playing field that they will never create
* Oh and taking on Russia in Syria, (even if it is just for show)
I’m sure there are number of others that I agree with.
The party holding the Dreamers hostage, as always, is the Democrats. They turned down a deal that they weren’t fond of to demand a unilateral action while refusing to do anything to secure the border. They simply cant take yes for an answer and lose that issue for the next, and next and next, election.
Interesting I saw Michael Morrell on tv this weekend basically saying that its a good thing for our foreign policy that places like Iran/NKPR aren’t really sure whether we will use force or not. But effective use of that worry is still up in the air. I agree with him.
He also represented those of us that can read and knew the Iran deal guarantees they will be a nuclear power in ten years.
* tax cuts
* de-regulation, especially the overreach the last administration put in place with questionable legal basis
* Compromise policy on immigration
* Gorsuch
* Paris Accords
* Iran in General
* North Korea
* Israel
* Shared Infrastructure Investment
* Charter Schools everywhere
* ACA policy
* NATO pulling its own weight
* Tariffs as an actual bargaining tool rather than the long standing policy of asking the WTO to create an even playing field that they will never create
* Oh and taking on Russia in Syria, (even if it is just for show)
I’m sure there are number of others that I agree with.
The party holding the Dreamers hostage, as always, is the Democrats. They turned down a deal that they weren’t fond of to demand a unilateral action while refusing to do anything to secure the border. They simply cant take yes for an answer and lose that issue for the next, and next and next, election.
Interesting I saw Michael Morrell on tv this weekend basically saying that its a good thing for our foreign policy that places like Iran/NKPR aren’t really sure whether we will use force or not. But effective use of that worry is still up in the air. I agree with him.
He also represented those of us that can read and knew the Iran deal guarantees they will be a nuclear power in ten years.
Marty’s list is pretty much why I would hate a POTUS Trump even if he wasn’t a crook and a fool.
Sadly, he’s all that and a bag of chips.
Marty’s list is pretty much why I would hate a POTUS Trump even if he wasn’t a crook and a fool.
Sadly, he’s all that and a bag of chips.
Trump is the GOP. Ergo, Marty is all in on Trump.
Trump is the GOP. Ergo, Marty is all in on Trump.
Just picking one at random:
“NATO pulling its own weight”
Indeed. A fully rearmed nuclear Germany would be a great thing. Japan and S. Korea might as well join in to show they, too, have skin in the game, and can “carry their own weight”!
Just like the good old days!
Just picking one at random:
“NATO pulling its own weight”
Indeed. A fully rearmed nuclear Germany would be a great thing. Japan and S. Korea might as well join in to show they, too, have skin in the game, and can “carry their own weight”!
Just like the good old days!
Interesting I saw Michael Morrell on tv this weekend basically saying that its a good thing for our foreign policy that places like Iran/NKPR aren’t really sure whether we will use force or not. But effective use of that worry is still up in the air. I agree with him.
That is just juvenile dick wagging. If “nobody is sure” about the use of force, then a rational presumption would be to assume force it shall be, sooner or later, and plan and/take action accordingly. But no, wingnuts just think everybody else but them is stupid and weak, and that you can not only win, but win easily on the international stage by bluster and force and doing it on the cheap.
It has never worked.
Interesting I saw Michael Morrell on tv this weekend basically saying that its a good thing for our foreign policy that places like Iran/NKPR aren’t really sure whether we will use force or not. But effective use of that worry is still up in the air. I agree with him.
That is just juvenile dick wagging. If “nobody is sure” about the use of force, then a rational presumption would be to assume force it shall be, sooner or later, and plan and/take action accordingly. But no, wingnuts just think everybody else but them is stupid and weak, and that you can not only win, but win easily on the international stage by bluster and force and doing it on the cheap.
It has never worked.
NATO pulling its own weight, paying around 2% of gdp in defense. Pretty sure that doesn’t fully rearm anyone.
NATO pulling its own weight, paying around 2% of gdp in defense. Pretty sure that doesn’t fully rearm anyone.
Somebody ask Marty WTF he means by “compromise policy on immigration”. Please.
I’d do it myself, but I’m done pretending that Marty is anything but a down-the-line idolater of He, Trump. Marty is lying to himself, not us.
–TP
Somebody ask Marty WTF he means by “compromise policy on immigration”. Please.
I’d do it myself, but I’m done pretending that Marty is anything but a down-the-line idolater of He, Trump. Marty is lying to himself, not us.
–TP
NATO pulling its own weight, paying around 2% of gdp in defense. Pretty sure that doesn’t fully rearm anyone.
Trump’s bluster essentially threatens to withdraw the nuclear umbrella. If Germany decides the U.S. will not be there at crunch time, they shall rearm, and that 2% will be a thing of the past.
Or, if Trump is just blustering, and everybody ignores him, what’s the point? He accomplishes nothing.
NATO pulling its own weight, paying around 2% of gdp in defense. Pretty sure that doesn’t fully rearm anyone.
Trump’s bluster essentially threatens to withdraw the nuclear umbrella. If Germany decides the U.S. will not be there at crunch time, they shall rearm, and that 2% will be a thing of the past.
Or, if Trump is just blustering, and everybody ignores him, what’s the point? He accomplishes nothing.
“then a rational presumption would be to assume force it shall be, sooner or later, and plan and/take action accordingly.”
Which could very well be to cut a deal. It has worked, I watched it. The intermediate range ballistic missile treaty was signed weeks after the first deployment of one that could drop in a ten foot circle in Red Square.
Emboldening your adversaries comes from allowing them to be sure there are no consequences to their actions that they aren’t willing to suffer. Iran is there today, maybe NK was, maybe is.
But the consequences they are willing to pay is perhaps different, perhaps not.
“then a rational presumption would be to assume force it shall be, sooner or later, and plan and/take action accordingly.”
Which could very well be to cut a deal. It has worked, I watched it. The intermediate range ballistic missile treaty was signed weeks after the first deployment of one that could drop in a ten foot circle in Red Square.
Emboldening your adversaries comes from allowing them to be sure there are no consequences to their actions that they aren’t willing to suffer. Iran is there today, maybe NK was, maybe is.
But the consequences they are willing to pay is perhaps different, perhaps not.
“If Germany decides the U.S. will not be there at crunch time, they shall rearm, and that 2% will be a thing of the past.”
Yep they will all rearm instead of just living up to their treaty obligation to pay their share. That makes all the sense and we should worry about that.
“If Germany decides the U.S. will not be there at crunch time, they shall rearm, and that 2% will be a thing of the past.”
Yep they will all rearm instead of just living up to their treaty obligation to pay their share. That makes all the sense and we should worry about that.
Yep they will all rearm instead of just living up to their treaty obligation to pay their share.
Trump has shown he has no respect for treaties. If Germany raised their defense spending, what’s to stop the US for coming back and demanding more? That is the image Trump promotes.
If Germany is to “up their game” to try and keep in good standing with an unreliable ally, they would rightfully be mocked. Rationally, they would go nuclear. France did it. Why not them?
Yep they will all rearm instead of just living up to their treaty obligation to pay their share.
Trump has shown he has no respect for treaties. If Germany raised their defense spending, what’s to stop the US for coming back and demanding more? That is the image Trump promotes.
If Germany is to “up their game” to try and keep in good standing with an unreliable ally, they would rightfully be mocked. Rationally, they would go nuclear. France did it. Why not them?
What has Trump achieved in Korea other than to cut the ground out from under a close US ally ?
Or Iran, other than to antagonise the US European allies, and cede influence in the region to Russia and China ?
He’s a blustering fool.
What has Trump achieved in Korea other than to cut the ground out from under a close US ally ?
Or Iran, other than to antagonise the US European allies, and cede influence in the region to Russia and China ?
He’s a blustering fool.
Well, He is an exploiter of blustering fools. That He is one, himself, just goes to show how easy exploiting blustering fools is.
–TP
Well, He is an exploiter of blustering fools. That He is one, himself, just goes to show how easy exploiting blustering fools is.
–TP
Which could very well be to cut a deal. It has worked, I watched it. The intermediate range ballistic missile treaty was signed weeks after the first deployment of one that could drop in a ten foot circle in Red Square.
This is simply a falsification of history. The Soviets obtained concessions as well. It was a bilateral treaty, not a diktat, and the history behind the back and forth goes back about 10 years. I was there, too.
Which could very well be to cut a deal. It has worked, I watched it. The intermediate range ballistic missile treaty was signed weeks after the first deployment of one that could drop in a ten foot circle in Red Square.
This is simply a falsification of history. The Soviets obtained concessions as well. It was a bilateral treaty, not a diktat, and the history behind the back and forth goes back about 10 years. I was there, too.
“What has Trump achieved in Korea”
well, he hasn’t won a peace prize.
“What has Trump achieved in Korea”
well, he hasn’t won a peace prize.
well, he hasn’t won a peace prize.
As long as the nuke hasn’t been launched, Marty will declare victory. And then when the nuke is launched, he won’t.
well, he hasn’t won a peace prize.
As long as the nuke hasn’t been launched, Marty will declare victory. And then when the nuke is launched, he won’t.
“The Soviets obtained concessions as well. It was a bilateral treaty, not a diktat,”
An odd turn of phrase, I’m sure I never said anything about a diktat, but the Russians weren’t giving up intermediate range supersonic weapons without us having GLCM, deployed, to go along with the Pershings. The concern for a first strike that deeply diminished retaliation to subs was just not acceptable risk.
“The Soviets obtained concessions as well. It was a bilateral treaty, not a diktat,”
An odd turn of phrase, I’m sure I never said anything about a diktat, but the Russians weren’t giving up intermediate range supersonic weapons without us having GLCM, deployed, to go along with the Pershings. The concern for a first strike that deeply diminished retaliation to subs was just not acceptable risk.
Compromise policy on immigration
I’ve got to second Tony here. What compromise immigration policy??? Last I looked, there was a (maybe multiple) compromise immigration bill in the House. Which Ryan has been refusing to bring to a vote precisely because, he says, Trump wouldn’t sign it. And he knows it would pass if brought to a vote. Currently a Discharge Petition is getting close to the needed signatures.
If you’re seeing some other compromise actually happening on immigration, please advise. Even one that looks close to happening with Trump’s, if not help, at least clear acquiescence.
Compromise policy on immigration
I’ve got to second Tony here. What compromise immigration policy??? Last I looked, there was a (maybe multiple) compromise immigration bill in the House. Which Ryan has been refusing to bring to a vote precisely because, he says, Trump wouldn’t sign it. And he knows it would pass if brought to a vote. Currently a Discharge Petition is getting close to the needed signatures.
If you’re seeing some other compromise actually happening on immigration, please advise. Even one that looks close to happening with Trump’s, if not help, at least clear acquiescence.
He offered Dreamers for reform and funding the wall. They just said no. The wall is a irrelevancy so Dreamers for two reforms. They should have just said yes. But, no.
He offered Dreamers for reform and funding the wall. They just said no. The wall is a irrelevancy so Dreamers for two reforms. They should have just said yes. But, no.
“Tax cuts”.
Despite a total lack of evidence that they’ll do anything but raise corporate profits and explode the deficit, Marty praised them.
It’s a religion.
“Tax cuts”.
Despite a total lack of evidence that they’ll do anything but raise corporate profits and explode the deficit, Marty praised them.
It’s a religion.
Tax cuys – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves, reduce the deficit and allow the Fed to raise rates and clean up its balance sheet.
Even if all other things stay the same, it is fiscal stimulus in the range of what we should have done 10 years ago to limit the need for Fed impact.
Tax cuys – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves, reduce the deficit and allow the Fed to raise rates and clean up its balance sheet.
Even if all other things stay the same, it is fiscal stimulus in the range of what we should have done 10 years ago to limit the need for Fed impact.
plenty of evidence
Plenty.
Marty, what sweetypies you support:
schools can decide whether to report undocumented students and their families to immigration authorities.
Hope you have a lot of tax cuys!
plenty of evidence
Plenty.
Marty, what sweetypies you support:
schools can decide whether to report undocumented students and their families to immigration authorities.
Hope you have a lot of tax cuys!
Whats wrong with that exactly? I mean exactly.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law. What is even news about that?
Whats wrong with that exactly? I mean exactly.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law. What is even news about that?
so many reasons for why things happen. we all focus on the ones that make sense to us.
the US and the soviets were both in a position to fncking obliterate each other. once it got lit, it would have basically been automatic. we’d all be ashes.
when you’re talking nukes, 10 feet or 10 miles, same/same.
i always figured the soviets decided to deal because they were going broke.
NK’s, which is to say Kim’s, goal is to not be tossed out. having the US national security advisor and the VPOTUS rattle on about the “Libya option” was arrant stupidity. NK responded with a great big FU. I would have done the same.
Iran is going to make their own deal wih everybody othr than us, and if that doesn’t work out, they’re going to build themselves a bomb.
NATO is figuring out that they’re responsible for their own security. the EU has resources, they’ll figure it out. they are no going to rely on us. that will not be to our advantage.
to my eye, Trump is the easiest freaking guy in the world to play. give him a cookie, throw him a parade, let him fondle the orb. let his kids build a hotel, and suddenly you’re our best friend.
that’s “making a deal”, in his mind.
the man is an embarrassment, and as far as I can see is a freaking clown. i’m sure he has some competencies in commercial real estate and golf courses, those do not apply to the world he’s in now. he has no understanding of the responsibilities of his office, or the consequences of his actions.
if he gets good ratings and lots of twitter followers, he thinks he’s winning the day.
enjoy your tax break.
so many reasons for why things happen. we all focus on the ones that make sense to us.
the US and the soviets were both in a position to fncking obliterate each other. once it got lit, it would have basically been automatic. we’d all be ashes.
when you’re talking nukes, 10 feet or 10 miles, same/same.
i always figured the soviets decided to deal because they were going broke.
NK’s, which is to say Kim’s, goal is to not be tossed out. having the US national security advisor and the VPOTUS rattle on about the “Libya option” was arrant stupidity. NK responded with a great big FU. I would have done the same.
Iran is going to make their own deal wih everybody othr than us, and if that doesn’t work out, they’re going to build themselves a bomb.
NATO is figuring out that they’re responsible for their own security. the EU has resources, they’ll figure it out. they are no going to rely on us. that will not be to our advantage.
to my eye, Trump is the easiest freaking guy in the world to play. give him a cookie, throw him a parade, let him fondle the orb. let his kids build a hotel, and suddenly you’re our best friend.
that’s “making a deal”, in his mind.
the man is an embarrassment, and as far as I can see is a freaking clown. i’m sure he has some competencies in commercial real estate and golf courses, those do not apply to the world he’s in now. he has no understanding of the responsibilities of his office, or the consequences of his actions.
if he gets good ratings and lots of twitter followers, he thinks he’s winning the day.
enjoy your tax break.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law
may shit like this never rain down on your head.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law
may shit like this never rain down on your head.
schools should call the cops if they think their students are smoking weed.
or if they think their students’ parents are smoking weed.
or if their parents’ car registrations are expired.
or if their parents are delinquent in paying their federal taxes.
why not?
schools should call the cops if they think their students are smoking weed.
or if they think their students’ parents are smoking weed.
or if their parents’ car registrations are expired.
or if their parents are delinquent in paying their federal taxes.
why not?
Whats wrong with that exactly? I mean exactly.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law. What is even news about that?
So, Marty, the compassionate, music aficionado, who sometimes seems to care about other people, thinks it’s totally fine for ICE agents to go to a school and grab innocent kids, whose parents are undocumented.
Of course you like marijuana which is illegal under federal law. I’m sure you’d totally in favor of the feds yanking your family members away from whatever they’re doing to be incarcerated indefinitely, because what’s wrong with that, exactly?
It would be wrong to wish that Marty’s family would be treated that way, so I keep fighting the temptation to really, really wish for that.
Whats wrong with that exactly? I mean exactly.
Schools can call the cops to report someone breaking the law. What is even news about that?
So, Marty, the compassionate, music aficionado, who sometimes seems to care about other people, thinks it’s totally fine for ICE agents to go to a school and grab innocent kids, whose parents are undocumented.
Of course you like marijuana which is illegal under federal law. I’m sure you’d totally in favor of the feds yanking your family members away from whatever they’re doing to be incarcerated indefinitely, because what’s wrong with that, exactly?
It would be wrong to wish that Marty’s family would be treated that way, so I keep fighting the temptation to really, really wish for that.
russel, I don’t plan on illegally entering any countries.
But there was a time when I was younger I lived in fear of going to jail, even got turned in twice.
Oddly if I hadn’t been breaking the law turning me in wouldn’t have been an option. Or mattered.
Empathy for their predicament doesn’t change the facts. They are criminals subject to deportation.
Would I call ICE? Not unless they gave me a reason, nor would most other people. But, recognizing it is an option some will exercise, doesn’t make them bad people. It means the illegal immigrants got caught.
Sucks for them.
russel, I don’t plan on illegally entering any countries.
But there was a time when I was younger I lived in fear of going to jail, even got turned in twice.
Oddly if I hadn’t been breaking the law turning me in wouldn’t have been an option. Or mattered.
Empathy for their predicament doesn’t change the facts. They are criminals subject to deportation.
Would I call ICE? Not unless they gave me a reason, nor would most other people. But, recognizing it is an option some will exercise, doesn’t make them bad people. It means the illegal immigrants got caught.
Sucks for them.
i know people who have had other people ask them to take their kids if they get picked up while their kids are at school.
let’s do that for everything. break the law, we’re gonna come and grab you off the street, out of your home, out of your place of work. round you up, put you on a bus, take you to a place of detention 100 miles away. don’t tell your family, nobody knows where you are or what happened to you.
let’s do that. let’s start with the fucking bankers. let’s start with manafort, and cohen, and the rest of those creeps. let’s start with trump’s sleazebag kids.
you smoke a little weed now and then marty? or maybe one of your kids does?
get on the bus.
round ’em up. the schools can call it in.
it’s the law, right?
its all good as long as its not someone like you.
i know people who have had other people ask them to take their kids if they get picked up while their kids are at school.
let’s do that for everything. break the law, we’re gonna come and grab you off the street, out of your home, out of your place of work. round you up, put you on a bus, take you to a place of detention 100 miles away. don’t tell your family, nobody knows where you are or what happened to you.
let’s do that. let’s start with the fucking bankers. let’s start with manafort, and cohen, and the rest of those creeps. let’s start with trump’s sleazebag kids.
you smoke a little weed now and then marty? or maybe one of your kids does?
get on the bus.
round ’em up. the schools can call it in.
it’s the law, right?
its all good as long as its not someone like you.
They are criminals subject to deportation.
No, entering the country illegally is not a “crime”. Get your facts straight.
They are criminals subject to deportation.
No, entering the country illegally is not a “crime”. Get your facts straight.
He offered Dreamers for reform and funding the wall. They just said no. The wall is a irrelevancy so Dreamers for two reforms. They should have just said yes. But, no.
I admit that I’m not a great wheeler-dealer. But to my mind, if you make an offer, and it is declined, you have not achieved a compromise. Rather, you have FAILED to achieve a compromise.
He offered Dreamers for reform and funding the wall. They just said no. The wall is a irrelevancy so Dreamers for two reforms. They should have just said yes. But, no.
I admit that I’m not a great wheeler-dealer. But to my mind, if you make an offer, and it is declined, you have not achieved a compromise. Rather, you have FAILED to achieve a compromise.
“schools should call the cops if they think their students are smoking weed.”
They do this, in Fl. as a matter of policy, parents too. But not if they “think” they are smoking pot. They assume all of them are. They call the cops when they have evidence of a crime.
“schools should call the cops if they think their students are smoking weed.”
They do this, in Fl. as a matter of policy, parents too. But not if they “think” they are smoking pot. They assume all of them are. They call the cops when they have evidence of a crime.
So, I’ve pie filtered Marty, but I look sometimes. It was a bad idea.
There are some seriously cruel people in this country.
So, I’ve pie filtered Marty, but I look sometimes. It was a bad idea.
There are some seriously cruel people in this country.
Not unless they gave me a reason
why not? you’re a nice guy?
do you want the schools policing students and calling the cops when they know, or even suspct, that their parents might be involved in breaking the law?
any law?
if not, why not? why would it be a problem?
betsy devos has no business being within 100 miles of the education system.
Not unless they gave me a reason
why not? you’re a nice guy?
do you want the schools policing students and calling the cops when they know, or even suspct, that their parents might be involved in breaking the law?
any law?
if not, why not? why would it be a problem?
betsy devos has no business being within 100 miles of the education system.
Schools police students every day, we have given them that job for decades.
I wouldn’t call because my level of sympathy for those who don’t cause any problems is pretty high. My level of understanding for those who feel that the rule of law outweighs that sympathy is pretty high too.
So I apply the idea that either reasonable individual choice is inderstandable.
Schools police students every day, we have given them that job for decades.
I wouldn’t call because my level of sympathy for those who don’t cause any problems is pretty high. My level of understanding for those who feel that the rule of law outweighs that sympathy is pretty high too.
So I apply the idea that either reasonable individual choice is inderstandable.
betsy devos has no business being within 100 miles of the education system.
That’s certainly true if she’s included along with the Department of Education.
betsy devos has no business being within 100 miles of the education system.
That’s certainly true if she’s included along with the Department of Education.
Trump’s argument that it’s fair for NATO members each to spend about the same proportion of GDP on our collective defence makes sense. It’s also Obama’s argument and Bush’s.
However, much of US defence spending doesn’t go on collective defence, it’s spend on stupid wars instead. That’s Bush’s fault.
I think the effect of Trump’s flakiness will be that defence spending does increase in the rest of NATO. Defence spending will increase in the US too, because Trump wants more military power and more parades, to boost his vile ego.
More of the world’s resources being spend on arms is a bad thing. The US starting more wars, which the child Trump could do at any time just to see the firework display, would be a very bad thing.
It’s kind of Marty to come on here and point out that it’s all the D’s fault for declining to fund Trump’s idiotic wall.
Trump’s argument that it’s fair for NATO members each to spend about the same proportion of GDP on our collective defence makes sense. It’s also Obama’s argument and Bush’s.
However, much of US defence spending doesn’t go on collective defence, it’s spend on stupid wars instead. That’s Bush’s fault.
I think the effect of Trump’s flakiness will be that defence spending does increase in the rest of NATO. Defence spending will increase in the US too, because Trump wants more military power and more parades, to boost his vile ego.
More of the world’s resources being spend on arms is a bad thing. The US starting more wars, which the child Trump could do at any time just to see the firework display, would be a very bad thing.
It’s kind of Marty to come on here and point out that it’s all the D’s fault for declining to fund Trump’s idiotic wall.
why don’t we want schools turning kids who might be undocumented over to the cops?
because it’s not their job. it’s not even the cops’ job.
and making them play immigration officer interferes with their ability to do what their actual job is.
it’s appropriate for schools to call cops if someone is behaving in a way that presents a danger to themselves or someone else.
short of that, its not appropriate. it’s not their job to enforce the law.
why stop with schools? maybe doctors, and mail delivery people, and gas station attendants, and the guy at the dry cleaners, should all be dropping a dime any time they think someone is breaking the law. any law.
do you want to live in a freaking police state? I dont.
why don’t we want schools turning kids who might be undocumented over to the cops?
because it’s not their job. it’s not even the cops’ job.
and making them play immigration officer interferes with their ability to do what their actual job is.
it’s appropriate for schools to call cops if someone is behaving in a way that presents a danger to themselves or someone else.
short of that, its not appropriate. it’s not their job to enforce the law.
why stop with schools? maybe doctors, and mail delivery people, and gas station attendants, and the guy at the dry cleaners, should all be dropping a dime any time they think someone is breaking the law. any law.
do you want to live in a freaking police state? I dont.
They do this, in Fl. as a matter of policy
just another reason i’m glad I don’t live there.
They do this, in Fl. as a matter of policy
just another reason i’m glad I don’t live there.
There is plenty of evidence
Citation required
There is plenty of evidence
Citation required
do you want to live in a freaking police state? I dont.
i’m so old that i remember when “paper’s please” was a morbid joke among right wingers who were afraid of intrusive government.
do you want to live in a freaking police state? I dont.
i’m so old that i remember when “paper’s please” was a morbid joke among right wingers who were afraid of intrusive government.
i’m so old that i remember when “paper’s please” was a morbid joke among right wingers who were afraid of intrusive government.
They still don’t want government intruding on them in any way.
Confident as they are that they’re encased inside the right skin color and speak the right language, they’re sure that this kind of thing can’t possibly happen to them.
i’m so old that i remember when “paper’s please” was a morbid joke among right wingers who were afraid of intrusive government.
They still don’t want government intruding on them in any way.
Confident as they are that they’re encased inside the right skin color and speak the right language, they’re sure that this kind of thing can’t possibly happen to them.
And the level of outrage if it does happen to them (as it sometimes does) is off the charts. Actually, even if it’s entirely warranted — see Trump’s reaction to an utterly routine counterespionage investigation coming near him.
And the level of outrage if it does happen to them (as it sometimes does) is off the charts. Actually, even if it’s entirely warranted — see Trump’s reaction to an utterly routine counterespionage investigation coming near him.
IOW, you still don’t have to carry papers if you’re the right skin color and you’re speaking English without an accent.
“First they came for……..”
*****
Funny accent story to end the day on a lighter note.
On a long layover in Heathrow some years ago, I got into a conversation with an Englishwoman who had married an American and was living in Dallas. She had been in England visiting her aging mother and was now on her way back to the States.
After we talked for a while, she said to me in a kind of bemused way, “You don’t have a very strong American accent, do you.”
Well yeah, I guess, if by “American” you mean “Texan.” 😉
IOW, you still don’t have to carry papers if you’re the right skin color and you’re speaking English without an accent.
“First they came for……..”
*****
Funny accent story to end the day on a lighter note.
On a long layover in Heathrow some years ago, I got into a conversation with an Englishwoman who had married an American and was living in Dallas. She had been in England visiting her aging mother and was now on her way back to the States.
After we talked for a while, she said to me in a kind of bemused way, “You don’t have a very strong American accent, do you.”
Well yeah, I guess, if by “American” you mean “Texan.” 😉
Marty: Tax cuts – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves, reduce the deficit and allow the Fed to raise rates and clean up its balance sheet.
Ah, the Credo in unum Deum of the Supply-Side-Jesus cult. A hardy perennial.
Like cleek says: religion. You see, wj, what Republican propaganda can lead to?
Not that it will do any good, but imagine that “3% growth” is possible indefinitely; imagine further that it is achievable by raising the incomes of all Americans who make more money than Marty, while keeping Marty and everyone below him making the same. That’s one perfectly good and entirely possible form of “3% growth”.
“All else being equal”, would Marty still sing Hosannas to He, Trump (sorry, He Trump’s “(Republican)” policies) if that’s what the “3% growth” resulting from Ryan and McConnell’s wet dream of a tax cut turns out to actually deliver? I mean, 3% is 3%, right?
This question will do no good, as I say, because the Supply-Side Faith is as immune to argument as Bible stories are to archaeology.
–TP
Marty: Tax cuts – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves, reduce the deficit and allow the Fed to raise rates and clean up its balance sheet.
Ah, the Credo in unum Deum of the Supply-Side-Jesus cult. A hardy perennial.
Like cleek says: religion. You see, wj, what Republican propaganda can lead to?
Not that it will do any good, but imagine that “3% growth” is possible indefinitely; imagine further that it is achievable by raising the incomes of all Americans who make more money than Marty, while keeping Marty and everyone below him making the same. That’s one perfectly good and entirely possible form of “3% growth”.
“All else being equal”, would Marty still sing Hosannas to He, Trump (sorry, He Trump’s “(Republican)” policies) if that’s what the “3% growth” resulting from Ryan and McConnell’s wet dream of a tax cut turns out to actually deliver? I mean, 3% is 3%, right?
This question will do no good, as I say, because the Supply-Side Faith is as immune to argument as Bible stories are to archaeology.
–TP
Tony, just so you differentiate between Republican propaganda, which this nonsense is, and conservative propaganda, which may have some illusions but this isn’t one of them.
Tony, just so you differentiate between Republican propaganda, which this nonsense is, and conservative propaganda, which may have some illusions but this isn’t one of them.
wj,
You and I agree on so much that I’m beginning to think I may be “conservative”
🙂
–TP
wj,
You and I agree on so much that I’m beginning to think I may be “conservative”
🙂
–TP
It can be hard to recognize if you let yourself get taken in by the radical reactionaries and ultra-libertarians who have misappropriated the label. 😉
It can be hard to recognize if you let yourself get taken in by the radical reactionaries and ultra-libertarians who have misappropriated the label. 😉
Sorry for being late on the topic but I consider it highly unlikely that Germany will increase real defense spending significantly, and going nuclear is for the time being out of the question. It would be a purely suicidal political move. Any governing coalition would break up in an instant and the partner proposing it would face electoral disaster.
I assume there will be an increase in defense spending in the not too distant future but not to expand our nominal military capacities but to simply get them to where they are supposed to be right now. Recent reports indicate that the armed forces look like US infrastructure: close to collapse due to lack of maintenance for many years. There has to be significant investment to get them back in shape but there is no real willingness to go beyond that. We could not successfully invade and occupy Liechtenstein (which has no army) right now. It’s totally ironic that our Eastern neighbour (Poland) is run by guys who constantly scare the population with horrror stories that we will soon try to overturn the results of WW2 by taking back the (now Polish) lost territories by force (after secretly buying up all the land in advance, so the panzers will roll over already German owned ground).
We could as well claim that there is a secret Polish plan to kill us all because every year they try to sell us fireworks that contain military explosives (in some cases more than a standard NATO hand grenade, just lacking the fragmentation casing).
Sorry for being late on the topic but I consider it highly unlikely that Germany will increase real defense spending significantly, and going nuclear is for the time being out of the question. It would be a purely suicidal political move. Any governing coalition would break up in an instant and the partner proposing it would face electoral disaster.
I assume there will be an increase in defense spending in the not too distant future but not to expand our nominal military capacities but to simply get them to where they are supposed to be right now. Recent reports indicate that the armed forces look like US infrastructure: close to collapse due to lack of maintenance for many years. There has to be significant investment to get them back in shape but there is no real willingness to go beyond that. We could not successfully invade and occupy Liechtenstein (which has no army) right now. It’s totally ironic that our Eastern neighbour (Poland) is run by guys who constantly scare the population with horrror stories that we will soon try to overturn the results of WW2 by taking back the (now Polish) lost territories by force (after secretly buying up all the land in advance, so the panzers will roll over already German owned ground).
We could as well claim that there is a secret Polish plan to kill us all because every year they try to sell us fireworks that contain military explosives (in some cases more than a standard NATO hand grenade, just lacking the fragmentation casing).
“Tony, just so you differentiate between Republican propaganda, which this nonsense is, and conservative propaganda, which may have some illusions but this isn’t one of them”
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years prior to the last ten, and before. Numbers being different, policy being consistent.
I’m unclear what conservative policy you would support in its place? In fact there is nothing reactionary or neoliberal from a policy perspective on the list of policies I support.
“Tony, just so you differentiate between Republican propaganda, which this nonsense is, and conservative propaganda, which may have some illusions but this isn’t one of them”
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years prior to the last ten, and before. Numbers being different, policy being consistent.
I’m unclear what conservative policy you would support in its place? In fact there is nothing reactionary or neoliberal from a policy perspective on the list of policies I support.
“you can’t cancel it because i already cancelled it!”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/inside-summit-collapse-trump-wanted-cancel-n-korean-leader-could-n877291
“you can’t cancel it because i already cancelled it!”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/inside-summit-collapse-trump-wanted-cancel-n-korean-leader-could-n877291
Not nearly as blindsided as the South Korean leader.
The net effect of Trump’s policies will be to strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.
Not nearly as blindsided as the South Korean leader.
The net effect of Trump’s policies will be to strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.
let’s do that for everything.
In fact, it is illegal to hire an illegal immigrant. But, you see, the GOP never brings this up….all those illegal “job creators” breaking the law.
I wonder why that is?
let’s do that for everything.
In fact, it is illegal to hire an illegal immigrant. But, you see, the GOP never brings this up….all those illegal “job creators” breaking the law.
I wonder why that is?
The net effect of Trump’s policies will be to strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.
between the crazy China trade negotiations, the abandonment of TPP, the fumbling with SK and NK … definitely.
see also: Europe, NATO, Iran.
maybe The Trump Doctrine is simply passive-aggressive isolationism. screw up all the relationships enough so that everybody else decides it’s best to just go on without you.
The net effect of Trump’s policies will be to strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.
between the crazy China trade negotiations, the abandonment of TPP, the fumbling with SK and NK … definitely.
see also: Europe, NATO, Iran.
maybe The Trump Doctrine is simply passive-aggressive isolationism. screw up all the relationships enough so that everybody else decides it’s best to just go on without you.
Look according to this Pompeo was told before it happened, so this is just same old same old crap journalism. “According to multiple officials” whatever that means these days, probably officials of the Democratic Party.
Surprising South Korea is unimaginable. So there’s why I don’t like Trump. In the midst of what was otherwise a pretty good overall stretch of diplomatic progress, including pulling out, he does something completely stupid.
But, on balance, it seems China was concerned too much progress was being made and sabotaged the talks. So
“strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.”is probably backwards. The talks and the prospect of a reunified, denuclearized Korea without China at the table was a loss of influence they couldn’t live with.
Look according to this Pompeo was told before it happened, so this is just same old same old crap journalism. “According to multiple officials” whatever that means these days, probably officials of the Democratic Party.
Surprising South Korea is unimaginable. So there’s why I don’t like Trump. In the midst of what was otherwise a pretty good overall stretch of diplomatic progress, including pulling out, he does something completely stupid.
But, on balance, it seems China was concerned too much progress was being made and sabotaged the talks. So
“strengthen Chinese commercial and strategic influence.”is probably backwards. The talks and the prospect of a reunified, denuclearized Korea without China at the table was a loss of influence they couldn’t live with.
Read this carefully, Marty.
This is your guy.
Read this carefully, Marty.
This is your guy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/migrant-children-missing.html
heckofajob, Trump et al
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/migrant-children-missing.html
heckofajob, Trump et al
Hmmm. Looks like some of these (from today’s NYT) could be your people, wj:
Concerned by Trump, Some Republicans Quietly Align With Democrats
Hmmm. Looks like some of these (from today’s NYT) could be your people, wj:
Concerned by Trump, Some Republicans Quietly Align With Democrats
No sapient, those are the things that make him not my guy.
But, I can, and have to, separate who he is from specific things he does and evaluate them individually. In those cases where his policy aligns with mine I support his efforts.
No sapient, those are the things that make him not my guy.
But, I can, and have to, separate who he is from specific things he does and evaluate them individually. In those cases where his policy aligns with mine I support his efforts.
“on balance, it seems ..”
As of the middle of March, 44 of 188 countries have not been assigned Ambassadors from this loose confederation of assholes called the United States.
Patriots, conservative ones, treated like pig shit by vermin conservative republicans and this lout you lower yourself on occasion to call “stupid”.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/28/the-diplomat-who-quit-the-trump-administration
“pretty good overall stretch of diplomatic progress”
According to two thumbs on a tweet machine, the latter of which has more intelligence, silicone-based or otherwise, than the ignoramus operating it.
Giving mp any kind of computing power to extend his filthy “values” beyond his fingertips is like putting a third tit on Morgana, the top-heavy blonde baseball game crasher from decades past … a triumph for limp-dicked shitheads.
What it seems is that the rest of the world needs to add exponentially to their nuclear arsenals to counter the American conservative threat.
Panama needs nukes. Take out the mp Towers in Panama City and clean up that skyline.
Ignoramuses are the new elite. Contempt for expertise of any kind is the new manifest destiny.
The new Ignoranati. They will be goddamned destroyed from within and without.
Ignoramus is the title of a farce by George Ruggle (1575-1622) that was first produced in 1615. The title character, whose name in Latin literally means “we do not know,” is a lawyer who fancies himself to be quite shrewd but is actually foolish and ignorant.
At least he earned a law degree first.
“on balance, it seems ..”
As of the middle of March, 44 of 188 countries have not been assigned Ambassadors from this loose confederation of assholes called the United States.
Patriots, conservative ones, treated like pig shit by vermin conservative republicans and this lout you lower yourself on occasion to call “stupid”.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/28/the-diplomat-who-quit-the-trump-administration
“pretty good overall stretch of diplomatic progress”
According to two thumbs on a tweet machine, the latter of which has more intelligence, silicone-based or otherwise, than the ignoramus operating it.
Giving mp any kind of computing power to extend his filthy “values” beyond his fingertips is like putting a third tit on Morgana, the top-heavy blonde baseball game crasher from decades past … a triumph for limp-dicked shitheads.
What it seems is that the rest of the world needs to add exponentially to their nuclear arsenals to counter the American conservative threat.
Panama needs nukes. Take out the mp Towers in Panama City and clean up that skyline.
Ignoramuses are the new elite. Contempt for expertise of any kind is the new manifest destiny.
The new Ignoranati. They will be goddamned destroyed from within and without.
Ignoramus is the title of a farce by George Ruggle (1575-1622) that was first produced in 1615. The title character, whose name in Latin literally means “we do not know,” is a lawyer who fancies himself to be quite shrewd but is actually foolish and ignorant.
At least he earned a law degree first.
“But, I can, and have to, separate who he is from specific things he does and evaluate them individually. In those cases where his policy aligns with mine I support his efforts.”
On balance, therefore, it seems the Autobahn was a stroke of Nazi Party genius.
But as with everything mp, even that decent idea that was stolen, repackaged and re-presented as just another way to mobilize hatred and extend it from one end of the country to the other.
http://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-the-autobahn/a-16144981
Hartmut, feel free to clean that up if it’s wrong, or merely add more rueful hilarity to it.
“But, I can, and have to, separate who he is from specific things he does and evaluate them individually. In those cases where his policy aligns with mine I support his efforts.”
On balance, therefore, it seems the Autobahn was a stroke of Nazi Party genius.
But as with everything mp, even that decent idea that was stolen, repackaged and re-presented as just another way to mobilize hatred and extend it from one end of the country to the other.
http://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-the-autobahn/a-16144981
Hartmut, feel free to clean that up if it’s wrong, or merely add more rueful hilarity to it.
Open thread.
I just want to say how moving it is to see the Irish women (and men) flooding home to vote to repeal the 8th Amendment to their constitution, which if successful would make abortion legal up to 12 weeks in Ireland. They’re arriving on the planes, and the ferries, just as they did to make same sex marriage legal in 2015, when that amendment was approved by 67% of the voters.
The No campaign has used all the sneaky, illegal tricks we are now so used to from Brexit etc, partly funded by American (presumably Catholic and Evangelical) money and helped by American expertise, but even so the flood keeps coming and is said to be even bigger than the 2015 one.
It’s inspiring.
Open thread.
I just want to say how moving it is to see the Irish women (and men) flooding home to vote to repeal the 8th Amendment to their constitution, which if successful would make abortion legal up to 12 weeks in Ireland. They’re arriving on the planes, and the ferries, just as they did to make same sex marriage legal in 2015, when that amendment was approved by 67% of the voters.
The No campaign has used all the sneaky, illegal tricks we are now so used to from Brexit etc, partly funded by American (presumably Catholic and Evangelical) money and helped by American expertise, but even so the flood keeps coming and is said to be even bigger than the 2015 one.
It’s inspiring.
“would make abortion legal up to 12 weeks”
Isn’t that a bit short? Or did you mean “fortnights”?
“would make abortion legal up to 12 weeks”
Isn’t that a bit short? Or did you mean “fortnights”?
see also: Europe, NATO, Iran.
Indeed, cleek.
Note that China accounts for close to half of both Iran’s exports and imports.
While Trump has been blundering around, China have quietly annexed the South China Sea:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/the-us-china-confrontation-takes-on-a-new-dimension/561062/
where his policy aligns with mine…
It would be possible to say the same about Putin – which makes it a rather meaningless statement.
see also: Europe, NATO, Iran.
Indeed, cleek.
Note that China accounts for close to half of both Iran’s exports and imports.
While Trump has been blundering around, China have quietly annexed the South China Sea:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/the-us-china-confrontation-takes-on-a-new-dimension/561062/
where his policy aligns with mine…
It would be possible to say the same about Putin – which makes it a rather meaningless statement.
I would add to this conversation as an aside that the press reports of Trump swearing create this kind of cognitive dissonance for me.
In most of my internet interaction bloggers and others have casually slipped into cursing to a level that I constantly question if their children actually hear them talk this way, much less read what they write online.
When I question this to some of them they mock me for being old fashioned and that they are just being authentic as this is how they really talk among themselves and with their friends.
I don’t have a single friend outside OBWi, and that’s an assumption about having one or two here, that I would use the f word with in just casual conversation. I have a few that we would throw it around in certain circumstances, I would never use it in anger with someone.
But in private I know many people who swear like sailors.
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
I would add to this conversation as an aside that the press reports of Trump swearing create this kind of cognitive dissonance for me.
In most of my internet interaction bloggers and others have casually slipped into cursing to a level that I constantly question if their children actually hear them talk this way, much less read what they write online.
When I question this to some of them they mock me for being old fashioned and that they are just being authentic as this is how they really talk among themselves and with their friends.
I don’t have a single friend outside OBWi, and that’s an assumption about having one or two here, that I would use the f word with in just casual conversation. I have a few that we would throw it around in certain circumstances, I would never use it in anger with someone.
But in private I know many people who swear like sailors.
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
oh my.
https://newrepublic.com/article/122129/how-many-times-has-obama-been-beneath-dignity-his-office
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
oh my.
https://newrepublic.com/article/122129/how-many-times-has-obama-been-beneath-dignity-his-office
Isn’t that a bit short?
Yes it is. But given that it is now illegal even in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality, and the 12 weeks is proposed to be “on demand” i.e. the woman has to give no reason, unlike in the UK where although she has a longer period a woman has to get approval from 2 doctors, it seems well worth it if they can pull it off.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/hometovote-stunning-heat-maps-reveal-huge-numbers-travelling-home-for-ireland-abortion-referendum-a3848211.html
Isn’t that a bit short?
Yes it is. But given that it is now illegal even in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality, and the 12 weeks is proposed to be “on demand” i.e. the woman has to give no reason, unlike in the UK where although she has a longer period a woman has to get approval from 2 doctors, it seems well worth it if they can pull it off.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/hometovote-stunning-heat-maps-reveal-huge-numbers-travelling-home-for-ireland-abortion-referendum-a3848211.html
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years
Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.
That’s the standard conservative policy for the last 38 years.
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
I may be mistaken, but I think what is shocking is not that Trump uses bad words, but that he treats his people like crap. At least that’s what I find disturbing in the piece.
As an aside, I personally use profanity a lot. Probably more than I ought to. IRL, more than I do here on ObWi.
To some degree it’s socialization. I travel in some communities where profanity is an art form, and it rubs off.
It’s actually against the posting rules here, and I abuse that. If it’s something that presents a problem to you, let me know. I will be perfectly happy to dial it back.
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years
Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.
That’s the standard conservative policy for the last 38 years.
So I’m confused. by the seeming inconsistency in the desire for authenticity and the shock, shock I say that someone curses in the Oval office
I may be mistaken, but I think what is shocking is not that Trump uses bad words, but that he treats his people like crap. At least that’s what I find disturbing in the piece.
As an aside, I personally use profanity a lot. Probably more than I ought to. IRL, more than I do here on ObWi.
To some degree it’s socialization. I travel in some communities where profanity is an art form, and it rubs off.
It’s actually against the posting rules here, and I abuse that. If it’s something that presents a problem to you, let me know. I will be perfectly happy to dial it back.
Well yeah, I guess, if by “American” you mean “Texan.”
My wife lived for a couple of years in Austin TX. This is ca. early 80’s.
She went grocery shopping, and asked a store employee where she could find pasta.
“Pasta..?”
“You know, like spaghetti.”
“Well, speak American, lady!”
It’s kind of a family joke.
And no, I’m not hating on TX, it’s just a funny story.
Well yeah, I guess, if by “American” you mean “Texan.”
My wife lived for a couple of years in Austin TX. This is ca. early 80’s.
She went grocery shopping, and asked a store employee where she could find pasta.
“Pasta..?”
“You know, like spaghetti.”
“Well, speak American, lady!”
It’s kind of a family joke.
And no, I’m not hating on TX, it’s just a funny story.
As an aside, I personally use profanity a lot. Probably more than I ought to. IRL, more than I do here on ObWi.
To some degree it’s socialization. I travel in some communities where profanity is an art form, and it rubs off.
Me too. And yet I would certainly wish to be considered a friend, Marty, if that’s on offer, no matter how often or how vehemently I disagree with you on politics or social issues. I have a feeling that swearing (and most particularly the F-word) has almost entirely lost its charge in an awful lot of what, funnily enough, used to be called “polite society” in the UK.
No, russell is, as usual, right. I think the contempt for Trump swearing is because he clearly does it to harangue and bully subordinates who can’t answer back, and that is an entirely different and horrible matter.
On the subject of swearing as an art form, I don’t know if any of you saw an English TV series called The Thick Of It, satirising the Blair years, and then a movie called In the Loop, ditto. There was a character in it called Malcolm Tucker (apparently based on Blair’s spin doctor Alastair Campbell) who swore brilliantly. One of my favourite examples (and I hope you will forgive the transgression of the posting rules for quotation purposes) was, when he was frantically busy containing some crisis and someone came and was sort of hovering by his door, he looked up and said:
“Come the fuck in, or fuck the fuck off.”
Pure poetry.
As an aside, I personally use profanity a lot. Probably more than I ought to. IRL, more than I do here on ObWi.
To some degree it’s socialization. I travel in some communities where profanity is an art form, and it rubs off.
Me too. And yet I would certainly wish to be considered a friend, Marty, if that’s on offer, no matter how often or how vehemently I disagree with you on politics or social issues. I have a feeling that swearing (and most particularly the F-word) has almost entirely lost its charge in an awful lot of what, funnily enough, used to be called “polite society” in the UK.
No, russell is, as usual, right. I think the contempt for Trump swearing is because he clearly does it to harangue and bully subordinates who can’t answer back, and that is an entirely different and horrible matter.
On the subject of swearing as an art form, I don’t know if any of you saw an English TV series called The Thick Of It, satirising the Blair years, and then a movie called In the Loop, ditto. There was a character in it called Malcolm Tucker (apparently based on Blair’s spin doctor Alastair Campbell) who swore brilliantly. One of my favourite examples (and I hope you will forgive the transgression of the posting rules for quotation purposes) was, when he was frantically busy containing some crisis and someone came and was sort of hovering by his door, he looked up and said:
“Come the fuck in, or fuck the fuck off.”
Pure poetry.
russell, I don’t find myself impacted much here, I do get taken aback at the casualness sometimes in person, or in a Mommy/Daddy blog. But the press seems to want to quote every f bomb uttered in the Oval office at this point like there is something surprising about Trump cursing regularly. I have been to NY.
The way he treats people has little to do with the actual words. He is an ass no doubt.
But, then, I was much more likely to curse when I first moved from Texas to Mass than the natives, so socialization is the answer I am sure.
russell, I don’t find myself impacted much here, I do get taken aback at the casualness sometimes in person, or in a Mommy/Daddy blog. But the press seems to want to quote every f bomb uttered in the Oval office at this point like there is something surprising about Trump cursing regularly. I have been to NY.
The way he treats people has little to do with the actual words. He is an ass no doubt.
But, then, I was much more likely to curse when I first moved from Texas to Mass than the natives, so socialization is the answer I am sure.
I couldn’t resist, I just looked up Malcolm Tucker quotes, and (I never thought I’d say such a thing) the Count has much to learn:
“You breathe a word of this to anyone, you mincing f***ing c**t, and I will tear your f***ing skin off, I will wear it to your mother’s birthday party and I will rub your nuts up and down her leg whilst whistling Bohemian f***ing Rhapsody, right?”
I couldn’t resist, I just looked up Malcolm Tucker quotes, and (I never thought I’d say such a thing) the Count has much to learn:
“You breathe a word of this to anyone, you mincing f***ing c**t, and I will tear your f***ing skin off, I will wear it to your mother’s birthday party and I will rub your nuts up and down her leg whilst whistling Bohemian f***ing Rhapsody, right?”
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years prior to the last ten, and before. Numbers being different, policy being consistent.
I’m unclear what conservative policy you would support in its place?
Marty, the obvious answer is this. When the economy is booming and unemployment is near record lows, you don’t worry about stimulating the economy. You seize the moment to reduce the deficit.
If you can, you do what we did in the late 1990s and reduce it down to zero. What you do NOT do is cut taxes,** raise spending, and drastically INCREASE the deficit.
You can argue for what was done on populist grounds, I suppose. Liberals might be fine with the spending increases (although probably would prefer a somewhat different distribution). But I see no way you can claim it was the action of conservatives!
** Cutting taxes for all occasions, in an effort (supposedly although obviously not in this case) to reduce government, isn’t a conservative mantra. It’s a libertarian one. See the original comment about the label being misappropriated.
This is pretty standard conservative policy that’s worked over the 30 years prior to the last ten, and before. Numbers being different, policy being consistent.
I’m unclear what conservative policy you would support in its place?
Marty, the obvious answer is this. When the economy is booming and unemployment is near record lows, you don’t worry about stimulating the economy. You seize the moment to reduce the deficit.
If you can, you do what we did in the late 1990s and reduce it down to zero. What you do NOT do is cut taxes,** raise spending, and drastically INCREASE the deficit.
You can argue for what was done on populist grounds, I suppose. Liberals might be fine with the spending increases (although probably would prefer a somewhat different distribution). But I see no way you can claim it was the action of conservatives!
** Cutting taxes for all occasions, in an effort (supposedly although obviously not in this case) to reduce government, isn’t a conservative mantra. It’s a libertarian one. See the original comment about the label being misappropriated.
The (additional) deficit spending will mostly go into private savings – that of the already wealthy. It’s doubtful that it will stimulate much of anything. It’s going into the wrong hands, meaning that, no, the tax cuts won’t pay for themselves. They’ll just create bigger piles of mostly idle money, which will eventually find its way into the purchase of the bonds that will be sold dollar for dollar with the additional debt that accumulates. Savings will simply be that much greater than investment. It won’t stimulate enough demand to spur the investment that would be needed create the same tax revenue at lower tax rates.
The (additional) deficit spending will mostly go into private savings – that of the already wealthy. It’s doubtful that it will stimulate much of anything. It’s going into the wrong hands, meaning that, no, the tax cuts won’t pay for themselves. They’ll just create bigger piles of mostly idle money, which will eventually find its way into the purchase of the bonds that will be sold dollar for dollar with the additional debt that accumulates. Savings will simply be that much greater than investment. It won’t stimulate enough demand to spur the investment that would be needed create the same tax revenue at lower tax rates.
“Savings will simply be that much greater than investment.”
So it will just slosh around the economy, looking for high-yield opportunities, inflating bubbles, and storing up trouble for later.
This is “why richy-rich greedheads should be launched into the Sun”, part the infinity.
“Savings will simply be that much greater than investment.”
So it will just slosh around the economy, looking for high-yield opportunities, inflating bubbles, and storing up trouble for later.
This is “why richy-rich greedheads should be launched into the Sun”, part the infinity.
“When the economy is booming and unemployment is near record lows, you don’t worry about stimulating the economy. You seize the moment to reduce the deficit. ”
The problem with this answer is the notion that the economy is booming without extraordinary support, in this case through unsustainable monetary policy.
The conservative answer would be in times of economic stability with minimal monetary or fiscal support to take the opportunity to reduce the debt. That is what should be expected over the next few years as the benefits of the tax cuts are realized and the deficit goes away.
But to define these tax cuts as less than a long term solution on the business tax side to a long term problem is to deny the conservative policy of creating an even playing field both in the US and across the globe.
Free trade does not include punitive tax rates versus international competition. Over time that limited our growth and over time the cuts will support it. (apply this answer to all tariffs discussions, we are having all kinds of trade discussions, that needed to be had, because China and others aren’t sure we will avoid trade conflict at all costs)
“When the economy is booming and unemployment is near record lows, you don’t worry about stimulating the economy. You seize the moment to reduce the deficit. ”
The problem with this answer is the notion that the economy is booming without extraordinary support, in this case through unsustainable monetary policy.
The conservative answer would be in times of economic stability with minimal monetary or fiscal support to take the opportunity to reduce the debt. That is what should be expected over the next few years as the benefits of the tax cuts are realized and the deficit goes away.
But to define these tax cuts as less than a long term solution on the business tax side to a long term problem is to deny the conservative policy of creating an even playing field both in the US and across the globe.
Free trade does not include punitive tax rates versus international competition. Over time that limited our growth and over time the cuts will support it. (apply this answer to all tariffs discussions, we are having all kinds of trade discussions, that needed to be had, because China and others aren’t sure we will avoid trade conflict at all costs)
Free trade does not include punitive tax rates versus international competition. Over time that limited our growth and over time the cuts will support it.
US taxes as a % of GDP are lower than all but about 3 other OECD countries.
Free trade does not include punitive tax rates versus international competition. Over time that limited our growth and over time the cuts will support it.
US taxes as a % of GDP are lower than all but about 3 other OECD countries.
The problem with this answer is the notion that the economy is booming without extraordinary support, in this case through unsustainable monetary policy.
No disagreement on the need to get interest rates back to some kind of sensible level. (Which for me, quite possibly for personal experience reasons, means 2-4%.)
But how will enormous budget deficits speed that happening?** Eventually, if not corrected, they will have to be dealt with by massively debasing the currency. Which produces the kind of inflation that has to be tamed with enormous interest rates. But surely you don’t see that as the only way to get interest rates up!
** Now if all the deficit increase were going to infrastructure, or something else which would help the non-government economy to function better? Then you might have something. But no, most of the increase is going to share buy-backs and other revenue to folks who are (or their companies are) already sitting on piles of cash for which they cannot seem to find good investment opportunities.
The problem with this answer is the notion that the economy is booming without extraordinary support, in this case through unsustainable monetary policy.
No disagreement on the need to get interest rates back to some kind of sensible level. (Which for me, quite possibly for personal experience reasons, means 2-4%.)
But how will enormous budget deficits speed that happening?** Eventually, if not corrected, they will have to be dealt with by massively debasing the currency. Which produces the kind of inflation that has to be tamed with enormous interest rates. But surely you don’t see that as the only way to get interest rates up!
** Now if all the deficit increase were going to infrastructure, or something else which would help the non-government economy to function better? Then you might have something. But no, most of the increase is going to share buy-backs and other revenue to folks who are (or their companies are) already sitting on piles of cash for which they cannot seem to find good investment opportunities.
Cutting taxes for all occasions, in an effort…to reduce government, isn’t a conservative mantra. It’s a libertarian one.
While libertarians tend toward any tax cut is better than no tax cut, what with monetarism and central banks, tax cuts don’t seem to have much impact on what governments are willing to spend. So reducing spending is becoming the focus, not tax cuts.
Cutting taxes for all occasions, in an effort…to reduce government, isn’t a conservative mantra. It’s a libertarian one.
While libertarians tend toward any tax cut is better than no tax cut, what with monetarism and central banks, tax cuts don’t seem to have much impact on what governments are willing to spend. So reducing spending is becoming the focus, not tax cuts.
“most of the increase is going to share buy-backs and other revenue to folks who are (or their companies are)”
First, there is no evidence of this, second share buybacks put money in all kinds of investment vehicles which are the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs.
Its a cute trick that in this thread there is an article criticizing Republicans for not caring about e-verify and then a discussion about money isn’t getting spent on jobs.
Money goes somewhere, even savings goes somewhere unless it is in a matress.
“most of the increase is going to share buy-backs and other revenue to folks who are (or their companies are)”
First, there is no evidence of this, second share buybacks put money in all kinds of investment vehicles which are the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs.
Its a cute trick that in this thread there is an article criticizing Republicans for not caring about e-verify and then a discussion about money isn’t getting spent on jobs.
Money goes somewhere, even savings goes somewhere unless it is in a matress.
Marty, you left out the rest of the sentence: “already sitting on piles of cash for which they cannot seem to find good investment opportunities.” And that part is critical.
Marty, you left out the rest of the sentence: “already sitting on piles of cash for which they cannot seem to find good investment opportunities.” And that part is critical.
That is what should be expected over the next few years as the benefits of the tax cuts are realized and the deficit goes away.
It’s May 25, 2018.
What does anyone want to wager that the deficit will have “gone away” by, say, May 25, 2021?
We’ve all seen this movie before.
That is what should be expected over the next few years as the benefits of the tax cuts are realized and the deficit goes away.
It’s May 25, 2018.
What does anyone want to wager that the deficit will have “gone away” by, say, May 25, 2021?
We’ve all seen this movie before.
hairshirt: …no, the tax cuts won’t pay for themselves. They’ll just create bigger piles of mostly idle money, which will eventually find its way into the purchase of the bonds that will be sold dollar for dollar with the additional debt that accumulates.
Absolutely.
Anybody with any sense would rather LEND money to The Government than PAY TAXES to The Government. The very rich have plenty of sense. So they loves them some high-end tax cuts AND the resulting deficits.
Note that bondholders collect interest from taxpayers — all taxpayers, including the very rich themselves. But their tax cuts make them taxpayers to a smaller degree, so the burden of paying the interest falls more heavily on the not-very-rich. And since bonds can be bequeathed, the heirs of the very rich will be collecting interest from the children of the not-very-rich for a long time.
Someday, Marty’s grandkids will figure out that they are paying interest to Barron Trump because their grandpa supported the “(Republican)” policies of Barron’s daddy. They may well decide that Barron had a smarter daddy than they had a grandpa.
I see that Marty has weighed in with: Money goes somewhere, even savings goes somewhere unless it is in a matress.
True. The very rich using their tax cuts to buy bonds The Government has to issue because of its tax-cut-induced debt is the ultimate “stock buy-back”. And yes: The Government can use the borrowed money, just as it could use tax money, to increase “the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs”. The difference is in who collects the interest. Marty’s grandkids will need those jobs — to pay the taxes that pay the interest to the very rich son of the champion of the very rich whose “(Republican)” policies grandpa supported.
–TP
hairshirt: …no, the tax cuts won’t pay for themselves. They’ll just create bigger piles of mostly idle money, which will eventually find its way into the purchase of the bonds that will be sold dollar for dollar with the additional debt that accumulates.
Absolutely.
Anybody with any sense would rather LEND money to The Government than PAY TAXES to The Government. The very rich have plenty of sense. So they loves them some high-end tax cuts AND the resulting deficits.
Note that bondholders collect interest from taxpayers — all taxpayers, including the very rich themselves. But their tax cuts make them taxpayers to a smaller degree, so the burden of paying the interest falls more heavily on the not-very-rich. And since bonds can be bequeathed, the heirs of the very rich will be collecting interest from the children of the not-very-rich for a long time.
Someday, Marty’s grandkids will figure out that they are paying interest to Barron Trump because their grandpa supported the “(Republican)” policies of Barron’s daddy. They may well decide that Barron had a smarter daddy than they had a grandpa.
I see that Marty has weighed in with: Money goes somewhere, even savings goes somewhere unless it is in a matress.
True. The very rich using their tax cuts to buy bonds The Government has to issue because of its tax-cut-induced debt is the ultimate “stock buy-back”. And yes: The Government can use the borrowed money, just as it could use tax money, to increase “the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs”. The difference is in who collects the interest. Marty’s grandkids will need those jobs — to pay the taxes that pay the interest to the very rich son of the champion of the very rich whose “(Republican)” policies grandpa supported.
–TP
This “the very rich use their money to buy bonds” is belied by the very wealthy using their money for charity and investing in businesses (see everyone from Gates and Buffett to Elon Musk and Mark Cuban).
I know some pretty wealthy people and outside having enough in bonds and dividend vehicles to pay for their day to day life, none of them buy bonds.
This is just the mantra of the left to demonize wealth.
This “the very rich use their money to buy bonds” is belied by the very wealthy using their money for charity and investing in businesses (see everyone from Gates and Buffett to Elon Musk and Mark Cuban).
I know some pretty wealthy people and outside having enough in bonds and dividend vehicles to pay for their day to day life, none of them buy bonds.
This is just the mantra of the left to demonize wealth.
“First, there is no evidence of this, …”
Take your pick:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+the+tax+cut+to+corporationsis+going+into+stock+buybacks&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS774US774&oq=what+percentage+of+the+tax+cut+to+corporationsis+going+into+stock+buybacks&aqs=chrome..69i57.44722j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
If, first, there is no evidence of this, then there was no need for the “and second” half of the statement about the blah-blah of the capital structure of the country.
Larry Kudlow, Steve Munchin, Maria Bartiromo, and even Sarah Huckabee Sanders are much better at keeping a straight face about denying evidence.
Leave that job to them.
Corporate CEOs are all over the media and their shareholder meetings cackling about the in-our-faces evidence about where the corporate tax cuts are going.
“First, there is no evidence of this, …”
Take your pick:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+the+tax+cut+to+corporationsis+going+into+stock+buybacks&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS774US774&oq=what+percentage+of+the+tax+cut+to+corporationsis+going+into+stock+buybacks&aqs=chrome..69i57.44722j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
If, first, there is no evidence of this, then there was no need for the “and second” half of the statement about the blah-blah of the capital structure of the country.
Larry Kudlow, Steve Munchin, Maria Bartiromo, and even Sarah Huckabee Sanders are much better at keeping a straight face about denying evidence.
Leave that job to them.
Corporate CEOs are all over the media and their shareholder meetings cackling about the in-our-faces evidence about where the corporate tax cuts are going.
“I know some pretty wealthy people and outside having enough in bonds and dividend vehicles to pay for their day to day life, none of them buy bonds.”
I just can’t even…
“I know some pretty wealthy people and outside having enough in bonds and dividend vehicles to pay for their day to day life, none of them buy bonds.”
I just can’t even…
First, there is no evidence of this…
Yes. There is.
second share buybacks put money in all kinds of investment vehicles which are the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs.
Shareholders selling or receiving bigger dividends do not necessarily put the funds into a vehicle generating greater NET investment. If they just plow it back into the market to buy different stocks, this does not generate new jobs. They could also spend it on anything. Or they could just light it on fire…
Point being…there is no direct mechanism in econ 101 macro theory that mandates these funds being plowed back into greater NET investment.
Its a cute trick…
Well, you tell us schools should snitch on illegals, but the folk hiring them should just blithely ignore the LAW? I am shocked! There is nothing cute about this…it merely demonstrates that firms seek cheap labor, and don’t appear to be too picky about national origins.
As Drum points out…if you want to “end” illegal immigration, end the ability to obtain illegal employment…Much like if you want to “end” abortions, make sex ed and contraceptives universally available at no cost and no need for a prescription.
First, there is no evidence of this…
Yes. There is.
second share buybacks put money in all kinds of investment vehicles which are the underlying capital structure of the country, much of which generates jobs.
Shareholders selling or receiving bigger dividends do not necessarily put the funds into a vehicle generating greater NET investment. If they just plow it back into the market to buy different stocks, this does not generate new jobs. They could also spend it on anything. Or they could just light it on fire…
Point being…there is no direct mechanism in econ 101 macro theory that mandates these funds being plowed back into greater NET investment.
Its a cute trick…
Well, you tell us schools should snitch on illegals, but the folk hiring them should just blithely ignore the LAW? I am shocked! There is nothing cute about this…it merely demonstrates that firms seek cheap labor, and don’t appear to be too picky about national origins.
As Drum points out…if you want to “end” illegal immigration, end the ability to obtain illegal employment…Much like if you want to “end” abortions, make sex ed and contraceptives universally available at no cost and no need for a prescription.
Who owns the national debt?
https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
Who owns the national debt?
https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
I know some pretty wealthy people
Me, too. They do all kinds of stuff with their money. Charity, start businesses. Buy big boats that they never sail in, wear really snappy clothes. All kinds of things.
I think wealth is fine. I don’t think it deserves special, beneficial treatment.
The reward for having a lot of money is… you have a lot of money. Fly first class, have really nice house(s), don’t have to drink cheap wine.
Sounds great!! Sign me up!
Adam Smith says the marginal utility of money as income increases means that tax rates should increase as income increases. I agree with Adam Smith. That is not a statement that “demonizes wealth”.
Most of the tax rebates are going to end up in the hands of people who already have a lot of money. They don’t need it, they already have a lot of money. That is not a statement that “demonizes wealth”.
You say it’s going to result in lots and lots of new businesses being created, and lots and lots of new jobs being created. What kind of businesses? What kind of jobs?
The pattern for the last 40 years has been that people who don’t have a lot of money live increasingly precarious lives. This is just more of the same.
I know some pretty wealthy people
Me, too. They do all kinds of stuff with their money. Charity, start businesses. Buy big boats that they never sail in, wear really snappy clothes. All kinds of things.
I think wealth is fine. I don’t think it deserves special, beneficial treatment.
The reward for having a lot of money is… you have a lot of money. Fly first class, have really nice house(s), don’t have to drink cheap wine.
Sounds great!! Sign me up!
Adam Smith says the marginal utility of money as income increases means that tax rates should increase as income increases. I agree with Adam Smith. That is not a statement that “demonizes wealth”.
Most of the tax rebates are going to end up in the hands of people who already have a lot of money. They don’t need it, they already have a lot of money. That is not a statement that “demonizes wealth”.
You say it’s going to result in lots and lots of new businesses being created, and lots and lots of new jobs being created. What kind of businesses? What kind of jobs?
The pattern for the last 40 years has been that people who don’t have a lot of money live increasingly precarious lives. This is just more of the same.
“This is just the mantra of the left to demonize wealth.”
“Gates and Buffett to Elon Musk and Mark Cuban” are the left, though Musk, like mp, has 28 sides to his mouth.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/bill-gates-has-paid-10-billion-in-taxes-and-says-he-should-pay-more.html
https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/934132414644973568?lang=en
I own Berkshire Hathaway and Microsoft stock.
That’s not demonizing.
“This is just the mantra of the left to demonize wealth.”
“Gates and Buffett to Elon Musk and Mark Cuban” are the left, though Musk, like mp, has 28 sides to his mouth.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/bill-gates-has-paid-10-billion-in-taxes-and-says-he-should-pay-more.html
https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/934132414644973568?lang=en
I own Berkshire Hathaway and Microsoft stock.
That’s not demonizing.
Dammit, bobbyp, you’re going to get me started on who OWES the national debt.
And if I end up expounding my proposal to Privatize the National Debt again, god help us all.
–TP
Dammit, bobbyp, you’re going to get me started on who OWES the national debt.
And if I end up expounding my proposal to Privatize the National Debt again, god help us all.
–TP
Who owns the national debt?
That $2.8 trillion that is owed the SS trust fund?
The (R)’s don’t want to pay it back. They spent it on W’s excellent adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on tax cuts.
Oopsie!
All you people who have been paying into SS at a rate greater than outlays since 1983?
Sucks to be you.
Who owns the national debt?
That $2.8 trillion that is owed the SS trust fund?
The (R)’s don’t want to pay it back. They spent it on W’s excellent adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on tax cuts.
Oopsie!
All you people who have been paying into SS at a rate greater than outlays since 1983?
Sucks to be you.
Lawrence Fink of Blackwater, some time ago, on the waste of stock buybacks to produce short-term advantage:
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/38/against-short-termism/
I just turned down a chance to have my (all or some) Abbvie stock bought back by the company.
I’d prefer as a shareholder, that they invest that cash, made available by the tax cuts, in the research and development of new products to cut their 58% (percentage of revenues) dependence on one drug … Humira … because at some point a bio-similar is coming along for that product.
But they’d rather juke quarterly earnings in a pointless exercise on re-arranging their co-called capital structure.
In which case, just pay the taxes and fuck off.
If I sell my shares, it won’t be to them.
Lawrence Fink of Blackwater, some time ago, on the waste of stock buybacks to produce short-term advantage:
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/38/against-short-termism/
I just turned down a chance to have my (all or some) Abbvie stock bought back by the company.
I’d prefer as a shareholder, that they invest that cash, made available by the tax cuts, in the research and development of new products to cut their 58% (percentage of revenues) dependence on one drug … Humira … because at some point a bio-similar is coming along for that product.
But they’d rather juke quarterly earnings in a pointless exercise on re-arranging their co-called capital structure.
In which case, just pay the taxes and fuck off.
If I sell my shares, it won’t be to them.
Eventually, if not corrected, they will have to be dealt with by massively debasing the currency.
This could happen, but is not necessarily so…. absent a host of assumptions that, for some reason have gone unstated.
Why are they so shy?
I’d also like Marty to explain how our current monetary policy is “unsustainable”.
Eventually, if not corrected, they will have to be dealt with by massively debasing the currency.
This could happen, but is not necessarily so…. absent a host of assumptions that, for some reason have gone unstated.
Why are they so shy?
I’d also like Marty to explain how our current monetary policy is “unsustainable”.
“..if you want to “end” illegal immigration, end the ability to obtain illegal employment..”
I agree with this, but if actually implemented it would increase the current deportation rate, I suspect, by a few 100%. Then no one on the left would be cavalierly bashing Republicans for not doing it. They would just bash Republicans for implementing it.
“..if you want to “end” illegal immigration, end the ability to obtain illegal employment..”
I agree with this, but if actually implemented it would increase the current deportation rate, I suspect, by a few 100%. Then no one on the left would be cavalierly bashing Republicans for not doing it. They would just bash Republicans for implementing it.
if you want to “end” illegal immigration
If you want to end illegal immigration, issue more visas.
if you want to “end” illegal immigration
If you want to end illegal immigration, issue more visas.
There’s deportation and there’s Mitt Romney’s “self-deportation”.
If you can’t get hired by any “job creator” because the Nationalist-Capitalist wing of the Republican Party, led by their immigrant-bashing orange fuhrer, prevails over the Moneyed-Capitalist wing, and makes it impossible in practice to employ “illegal immigrants”, you will probably return to your country of birth (Ireland, Slovenia, whatever) voluntarily.
This is likely to be less wrenching than ICE grabbing you on its terms, and result in less outrage among us bleeding-heart libruls. The people who would be really pissed off would be the farmers, chicken magnates, and country-club managers who suddenly have to pay maternity-ward immigrants (aka Real Murkins) real money to consume a lot of those hard, dirty jobs.
He, Trump (who not only employs immigrants, but marries them) knows all this. He will continue to fire up his voter base with anti-immigrant posturing so that He can keep His donor base adequately supplied with cheap labor and tax cuts.
–TP
There’s deportation and there’s Mitt Romney’s “self-deportation”.
If you can’t get hired by any “job creator” because the Nationalist-Capitalist wing of the Republican Party, led by their immigrant-bashing orange fuhrer, prevails over the Moneyed-Capitalist wing, and makes it impossible in practice to employ “illegal immigrants”, you will probably return to your country of birth (Ireland, Slovenia, whatever) voluntarily.
This is likely to be less wrenching than ICE grabbing you on its terms, and result in less outrage among us bleeding-heart libruls. The people who would be really pissed off would be the farmers, chicken magnates, and country-club managers who suddenly have to pay maternity-ward immigrants (aka Real Murkins) real money to consume a lot of those hard, dirty jobs.
He, Trump (who not only employs immigrants, but marries them) knows all this. He will continue to fire up his voter base with anti-immigrant posturing so that He can keep His donor base adequately supplied with cheap labor and tax cuts.
–TP
He, Trump (who not only employs illegal immigrants, but marries them)
Fixed that for you.
He, Trump (who not only employs illegal immigrants, but marries them)
Fixed that for you.
Its a cute trick that in this thread there is an article criticizing Republicans for not caring about e-verify and then a discussion about money isn’t getting spent on jobs.
I went back through this thread and I don’t see any mention of e-verify. Can you tell me where this is?
Its a cute trick that in this thread there is an article criticizing Republicans for not caring about e-verify and then a discussion about money isn’t getting spent on jobs.
I went back through this thread and I don’t see any mention of e-verify. Can you tell me where this is?
In one of the links
In one of the links
So, one person posts an article that has something that isn’t even discussed by anyone else, in a thread that an open thread that started with stained glass and has ranged from abortion in Ireland to questions of wealth and you suggest that this undermines the argument that money is not spent on jobs, made by other people who may not have even noticed the article?
I am certain that you are going to take this as me attacking you, but I would honestly like to see better arguments. While I’ve always been pretty liberal/left, as I get older, I do see some wisdom in actual conservatism (where you don’t make massive changes without considering the impact) and this kind of argumentation doesn’t help convince anyone, assuming that is what you want to do.
So, one person posts an article that has something that isn’t even discussed by anyone else, in a thread that an open thread that started with stained glass and has ranged from abortion in Ireland to questions of wealth and you suggest that this undermines the argument that money is not spent on jobs, made by other people who may not have even noticed the article?
I am certain that you are going to take this as me attacking you, but I would honestly like to see better arguments. While I’ve always been pretty liberal/left, as I get older, I do see some wisdom in actual conservatism (where you don’t make massive changes without considering the impact) and this kind of argumentation doesn’t help convince anyone, assuming that is what you want to do.
I went back through this thread and I don’t see any mention of e-verify. Can you tell me where this is?
bobbyp 5-25; 08:08 AM
I went back through this thread and I don’t see any mention of e-verify. Can you tell me where this is?
bobbyp 5-25; 08:08 AM
If you want to end illegal immigration, issue more visas.
Yep.
But the GOP donor class needs those dusky hued Spanish speaking illegals to rile their base and provide a supply of cheap exploitable labor for the “job creator” class.
An immigration reform bill would pass the Congress in a bipartisan heartbeat, but the GOP leadership will never allow such legislation to reach the floor.
If you want to end illegal immigration, issue more visas.
Yep.
But the GOP donor class needs those dusky hued Spanish speaking illegals to rile their base and provide a supply of cheap exploitable labor for the “job creator” class.
An immigration reform bill would pass the Congress in a bipartisan heartbeat, but the GOP leadership will never allow such legislation to reach the floor.
lj: … actual conservatism (where you don’t make massive changes without considering the impact) …
Let’s not buy too much into this meme, lj. The “conservative” attack on liberals often amounts to “you have not considered the impact”, when in fact two things are true:
1) Liberals have “considered the impact” and assessed that it will be beneficial; and
2) Liberals have considered the impact of NOT making the “massive changes” and assessed that it is pernicious.
“Beneficial” and “pernicious” are subjective assessments based on values that even conservatives, and not just liberals, can be suspected of imbibing with their mother’s milk.
Don’t believe me? Ask which is preferable:
1) A policy which raises GDP growth a magnificent 3% by doubling the incomes of the top 10% while holding the bottom 90% incomes constant; or
2) A policy which raises GDP growth a measly 2% by raising the incomes of the bottom 90% by 3% while holding the top 10% incomes constant.
Tally the responses by “liberal” and “conservative” and ask yourself which tribe is motivated by a sober preference for the status quo and which is heedless of the potential consequences.
–TP
lj: … actual conservatism (where you don’t make massive changes without considering the impact) …
Let’s not buy too much into this meme, lj. The “conservative” attack on liberals often amounts to “you have not considered the impact”, when in fact two things are true:
1) Liberals have “considered the impact” and assessed that it will be beneficial; and
2) Liberals have considered the impact of NOT making the “massive changes” and assessed that it is pernicious.
“Beneficial” and “pernicious” are subjective assessments based on values that even conservatives, and not just liberals, can be suspected of imbibing with their mother’s milk.
Don’t believe me? Ask which is preferable:
1) A policy which raises GDP growth a magnificent 3% by doubling the incomes of the top 10% while holding the bottom 90% incomes constant; or
2) A policy which raises GDP growth a measly 2% by raising the incomes of the bottom 90% by 3% while holding the top 10% incomes constant.
Tally the responses by “liberal” and “conservative” and ask yourself which tribe is motivated by a sober preference for the status quo and which is heedless of the potential consequences.
–TP
On the Irish referendum result, to quote Fintan O’Toole, an Irish columnist:
Another reason to be cheerful is that Ireland is the first Anglophone country to face the full panoply of Trump/Brexit/Bannon tactics and withstand that onslaught.
On the Irish referendum result, to quote Fintan O’Toole, an Irish columnist:
Another reason to be cheerful is that Ireland is the first Anglophone country to face the full panoply of Trump/Brexit/Bannon tactics and withstand that onslaught.
Tony, fair point, but (and maybe this is just me getting old) but it seems like the pace of change is a lot faster than it used to be. I’m sure I’ll be told that things are changing as fast as they ever had and I’m looking forward to talking about it.
Tony, fair point, but (and maybe this is just me getting old) but it seems like the pace of change is a lot faster than it used to be. I’m sure I’ll be told that things are changing as fast as they ever had and I’m looking forward to talking about it.
“Tax cuts – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves…”
Having an enquiring mind, I went looking for evidence to support this proposition. I found an article by an economics professor in support of the tax cuts. He estimates that the cuts will increase growth by 0.3% (which he describes as “slightly optimistic”) and calculates that the cuts will therefore pay for themselves if we wait 26 years.
That’s insanity.
It’s quite plausible that any sort of increase in deficit spending will increase growth in the short term. Even if it’s to pay for tax cuts for the rich, which is demonstrably the least effective way to increase growth. If you say by 0.3% that’s just a guess but it’s not ridiculous.
But it’s madness to assume that the increase in growth will continue for 26 years. The increased deficit translates to cumulatively increasing debt, which has to be serviced. If the resulting bond holders are domestic, that just ties the capital up again, so it produces no growth. If they’re overseas, the interest payments will flow into their economies not the USA’s. And the effect of increasing the debt is that interest rates when you roll the existing debt will go up as well.
When did the Rs advocate increasing the deficit to spend the money on helping poor people? Given that more money for the poor, who spend it in the local economy, is much better for US growth than more money for the rich, who import French wine. Never. That’s because they don’t actually believe that increasing the deficit is good for the economy. What they believe in is tax cuts for the rich. Especially for rich donors to the Republican party.
Marty, please tell us you haven’t fallen for this transparent deception.
“Tax cuts – There is plenty of evidence that they will keep the economy growing over 3%, pay for themselves…”
Having an enquiring mind, I went looking for evidence to support this proposition. I found an article by an economics professor in support of the tax cuts. He estimates that the cuts will increase growth by 0.3% (which he describes as “slightly optimistic”) and calculates that the cuts will therefore pay for themselves if we wait 26 years.
That’s insanity.
It’s quite plausible that any sort of increase in deficit spending will increase growth in the short term. Even if it’s to pay for tax cuts for the rich, which is demonstrably the least effective way to increase growth. If you say by 0.3% that’s just a guess but it’s not ridiculous.
But it’s madness to assume that the increase in growth will continue for 26 years. The increased deficit translates to cumulatively increasing debt, which has to be serviced. If the resulting bond holders are domestic, that just ties the capital up again, so it produces no growth. If they’re overseas, the interest payments will flow into their economies not the USA’s. And the effect of increasing the debt is that interest rates when you roll the existing debt will go up as well.
When did the Rs advocate increasing the deficit to spend the money on helping poor people? Given that more money for the poor, who spend it in the local economy, is much better for US growth than more money for the rich, who import French wine. Never. That’s because they don’t actually believe that increasing the deficit is good for the economy. What they believe in is tax cuts for the rich. Especially for rich donors to the Republican party.
Marty, please tell us you haven’t fallen for this transparent deception.
Hidden worlds in plain sight:
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/05/26/trump-is-openly-looting-the-country-and-theres-no-one-to-stop-him/
The death penalty will reach deep into the republican party and then we’ll get started on the republican electorate.
Hidden worlds in plain sight:
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/05/26/trump-is-openly-looting-the-country-and-theres-no-one-to-stop-him/
The death penalty will reach deep into the republican party and then we’ll get started on the republican electorate.
Trump’s got nothing to worry about. Good Republicans everywhere have his back at every turn. even if they grumble about certain specifics when pressed, they’re all-in when it matters.
now let’s let them lecture us on who the Real True Patriotic Americans are!
Trump’s got nothing to worry about. Good Republicans everywhere have his back at every turn. even if they grumble about certain specifics when pressed, they’re all-in when it matters.
now let’s let them lecture us on who the Real True Patriotic Americans are!
oh, and religion and charity are so very important to Real True Patriotic Christian Americans and we should let them write all our laws so that we will all follow the rules that the Bible lays out.
http://katu.com/news/local/woman-shamed-for-wic-card-usage-in-grocery-store-they-keep-getting-handouts
oh, and religion and charity are so very important to Real True Patriotic Christian Americans and we should let them write all our laws so that we will all follow the rules that the Bible lays out.
http://katu.com/news/local/woman-shamed-for-wic-card-usage-in-grocery-store-they-keep-getting-handouts
Been off doing other things for a bit, so I’m surprised to find out that suggesting that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to comprehend this new political correctness.
Been off doing other things for a bit, so I’m surprised to find out that suggesting that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to comprehend this new political correctness.
‘That’s why they have babies, so they can keep on getting all of the free stuff.'”
This stuff never goes away. I remember people talking like that about the Other when I was a kid.
I’ll bet that racist republican c*nt of a cashier has aborted at least two babies.
Yeah, plain English, Marty, just like mp spews.
‘That’s why they have babies, so they can keep on getting all of the free stuff.'”
This stuff never goes away. I remember people talking like that about the Other when I was a kid.
I’ll bet that racist republican c*nt of a cashier has aborted at least two babies.
Yeah, plain English, Marty, just like mp spews.
“that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization.”
The Right use to call people who purchased bonds “vigilantes”, and they meant it in a nice way.
….. just as they approve of the Bundy vigilantes.
“that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization.”
The Right use to call people who purchased bonds “vigilantes”, and they meant it in a nice way.
….. just as they approve of the Bundy vigilantes.
Here’s a product invented and developed by private ingenuity and capital, undeterred by the high marginal tax rates …. 91% …. prevailing at the time, the late 1950s.
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/28/588861820/a-brief-history-of-the-ar-15
Federal government subsidization, via military contracts, in the tens of millions or more dollars, supplied the capital structure to make the product a top seller.
I’m going to do some research on the role of Medicare and Medicaid tax dollars in growing the market for and sparking and sustaining the explosion of private capital now devoted to the development of miraculous medical technology and pharmaceuticals in America.
Here’s a product invented and developed by private ingenuity and capital, undeterred by the high marginal tax rates …. 91% …. prevailing at the time, the late 1950s.
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/28/588861820/a-brief-history-of-the-ar-15
Federal government subsidization, via military contracts, in the tens of millions or more dollars, supplied the capital structure to make the product a top seller.
I’m going to do some research on the role of Medicare and Medicaid tax dollars in growing the market for and sparking and sustaining the explosion of private capital now devoted to the development of miraculous medical technology and pharmaceuticals in America.
Tang, the beverage, was developed private sector geniuses at General Foods in 1957.
Sales were poor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_(drink)
Then the federal government, via NASA, got involved and the market exploded, ruining it for everyone.
America will never recover.
Tang, the beverage, was developed private sector geniuses at General Foods in 1957.
Sales were poor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_(drink)
Then the federal government, via NASA, got involved and the market exploded, ruining it for everyone.
America will never recover.
I’m taking bets on whether that Albertson’s cashier proudly calls herself a Christian.
No bets on whether she calls herself “conservative”.
She may not call herself either one, mind you. “Conservatives” often claim that private charity, motivated by “Christian” values, is better than guvmint support. This cashier seems to have been determined to forbid an act of private charity, possibly because she suspected the customer offering it of liberalism.
–TP
I’m taking bets on whether that Albertson’s cashier proudly calls herself a Christian.
No bets on whether she calls herself “conservative”.
She may not call herself either one, mind you. “Conservatives” often claim that private charity, motivated by “Christian” values, is better than guvmint support. This cashier seems to have been determined to forbid an act of private charity, possibly because she suspected the customer offering it of liberalism.
–TP
A preview of the soundtrack for the 2018 midterms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVxAnY_mp6g&t=136s
A preview of the soundtrack for the 2018 midterms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVxAnY_mp6g&t=136s
dial it back to the beginning.
dial it back to the beginning.
Why, exactly, a “christian country” has to behave in an amoral pagan fashion when helping the least of JC’s brothers, is left unsaid.
Why, exactly, a “christian country” has to behave in an amoral pagan fashion when helping the least of JC’s brothers, is left unsaid.
I’m surprised to find out that suggesting that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization
maybe he thought we said “bombs”.
I’m surprised to find out that suggesting that someone would buy bonds is a form of demonization
maybe he thought we said “bombs”.
“bombs”
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/forget-iran-russia-is-the-real-threat-to-the-us-in-the-middle-east.html?recirc=taboolainternal
“bombs”
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/forget-iran-russia-is-the-real-threat-to-the-us-in-the-middle-east.html?recirc=taboolainternal
Concerning the Reichsautobahn, I knew the basics about it (not invented by the Nazis but executed with massive propaganda effort, the roads remaining mainly unused due to lack of general motorization) but not all details.
One thing the article did not mention is that there was a deliberate decision to use as little machinery as possible, so more labourers could be employed (same with other infrastructure projects too).
Imo the main effect was in the early days of the regime as a ready to go employment project that could easily be exploited by the propaganda machine. The financing methods were shady and could not have been upheld for a longer period. In that sense the project achieved its primary purpose very well and at least it had a longterm value after the war. The Nazis started a lot of projects not of their invention that bore fruit only after they has overstayed their welcome in this world. We profit from the fact that they did* but should not forget the circumstances (and the costs**).
I doubt the same about The Donald’s boondoggles. Those are high cost, low (or negative) longterm value and questionable even short term.
*Living in Berlin I make use of Nazi built stuff on a daily basis
**I do not even mean the monetary ones here.
Concerning the Reichsautobahn, I knew the basics about it (not invented by the Nazis but executed with massive propaganda effort, the roads remaining mainly unused due to lack of general motorization) but not all details.
One thing the article did not mention is that there was a deliberate decision to use as little machinery as possible, so more labourers could be employed (same with other infrastructure projects too).
Imo the main effect was in the early days of the regime as a ready to go employment project that could easily be exploited by the propaganda machine. The financing methods were shady and could not have been upheld for a longer period. In that sense the project achieved its primary purpose very well and at least it had a longterm value after the war. The Nazis started a lot of projects not of their invention that bore fruit only after they has overstayed their welcome in this world. We profit from the fact that they did* but should not forget the circumstances (and the costs**).
I doubt the same about The Donald’s boondoggles. Those are high cost, low (or negative) longterm value and questionable even short term.
*Living in Berlin I make use of Nazi built stuff on a daily basis
**I do not even mean the monetary ones here.
Concerning Ireland, Germany too has a 12 week limit for ‘on demand’ abortion. Emergencies are covered after that (with a partially gliding scale recognizing an increasing right of the unborn to be recognized too the closer it comes to delivery time).
Concerning Ireland, Germany too has a 12 week limit for ‘on demand’ abortion. Emergencies are covered after that (with a partially gliding scale recognizing an increasing right of the unborn to be recognized too the closer it comes to delivery time).
My understanding is that in the Irish draft bill “12 weeks” is defined to mean 12 weeks since LMP, whereas in the German law it’s 14 weeks since LMP.
My understanding is that in the Irish draft bill “12 weeks” is defined to mean 12 weeks since LMP, whereas in the German law it’s 14 weeks since LMP.
Interesting, Pro Bono. I hadn’t seen that in any of the articles I had read. Luckily, they can still tinker around with the proposals, (and let’s hope they do, given the scale of the victory) because if you are correct that would usually mean that by the time a woman realises she is pregnant, she has 10 weeks or less to do anything about it.
Interesting, Pro Bono. I hadn’t seen that in any of the articles I had read. Luckily, they can still tinker around with the proposals, (and let’s hope they do, given the scale of the victory) because if you are correct that would usually mean that by the time a woman realises she is pregnant, she has 10 weeks or less to do anything about it.
And there’s supposed to be a 72 hour waiting period (presumably for the woman to change her mind). Funny how quickly one acclimatises to success, and starts wanting more and better….
And there’s supposed to be a 72 hour waiting period (presumably for the woman to change her mind). Funny how quickly one acclimatises to success, and starts wanting more and better….
Well, having repealed the ban — and by a huge margin — it wouldn’t be unreasonable to start another repeal effort to get it out of the Constitution altogether. Not, necessarily, to mandate that it be legal, just to put it where the legislature could deal with it directly.
Well, having repealed the ban — and by a huge margin — it wouldn’t be unreasonable to start another repeal effort to get it out of the Constitution altogether. Not, necessarily, to mandate that it be legal, just to put it where the legislature could deal with it directly.
https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/General-Scheme-for-Publication.pdf
See Head 7.
https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/General-Scheme-for-Publication.pdf
See Head 7.
wj, I don’t have time to look it up, but I was under the impression it only got put into the Constitution (as the 8th amendment, giving equal rights to the woman and the foetus) in 1983, and what this has done is repeal that amendment. If this is right, it (the question of abortion) now is out of the Constitution altogether, and legislation is about to be promulgated to regulate the conditions under which it can be obtained.
wj, I don’t have time to look it up, but I was under the impression it only got put into the Constitution (as the 8th amendment, giving equal rights to the woman and the foetus) in 1983, and what this has done is repeal that amendment. If this is right, it (the question of abortion) now is out of the Constitution altogether, and legislation is about to be promulgated to regulate the conditions under which it can be obtained.
Yup, you’re right Pro Bono.
Yup, you’re right Pro Bono.
GftNC, Right you are. I was reading too fast, and thought that (one of) the proposed laws was actually the text of the referendum.
So now the Irish are free to chivvy the Oireachtas members to whatever text they like at the moment. Given the size of the margin, one might suspect (on no actually knowledge) that the people will want to go a bit beyond the 12 weeks that the current government proposes.
GftNC, Right you are. I was reading too fast, and thought that (one of) the proposed laws was actually the text of the referendum.
So now the Irish are free to chivvy the Oireachtas members to whatever text they like at the moment. Given the size of the margin, one might suspect (on no actually knowledge) that the people will want to go a bit beyond the 12 weeks that the current government proposes.
to revisit the issue of separating parents and children.
i want to call particular attention to this:
marty at one point characterized immigration policy as “not deliberately cruel”. that is actually not true. we use taking people’s kids away as a threat. that is cruel.
and to address DHS head Nielsen’s statement that we “separate parent from their children every day”:
yes, if we incarcerate people, they are separated from their families. we do that after they have been tried and found guilty of a violation of criminal law.
overstaying a tourist, work, or student visa is not a violation of criminal law, it’s a misdemeanor. presenting yourself at a legal entry point and requesting asylum is not even that, it is a completely legal action.
even in cases that are violations of criminal law – entering surreptitiously, re-entering after having been deported – no useful purpose is served by separating children from their families other than visiting unnecessary trauma upon all parties involved.
our policy is – if you try to enter the country other than via a valid visa, we will take your kids away and hold you, perhaps for months, out of contact with your family, until we get around to even giving you a hearing to establish your status.
that is some fucked up business.
we can say “well, that’s the law”, but actually it’s not. it’s executive policy, the law does not require it. it’s a choice, and among other things it’s a choice about what kind of people we want to be.
embrace it, or not. if you do, you have taken a side. the reality and legacy of this belongs to you, you own it.
to revisit the issue of separating parents and children.
i want to call particular attention to this:
marty at one point characterized immigration policy as “not deliberately cruel”. that is actually not true. we use taking people’s kids away as a threat. that is cruel.
and to address DHS head Nielsen’s statement that we “separate parent from their children every day”:
yes, if we incarcerate people, they are separated from their families. we do that after they have been tried and found guilty of a violation of criminal law.
overstaying a tourist, work, or student visa is not a violation of criminal law, it’s a misdemeanor. presenting yourself at a legal entry point and requesting asylum is not even that, it is a completely legal action.
even in cases that are violations of criminal law – entering surreptitiously, re-entering after having been deported – no useful purpose is served by separating children from their families other than visiting unnecessary trauma upon all parties involved.
our policy is – if you try to enter the country other than via a valid visa, we will take your kids away and hold you, perhaps for months, out of contact with your family, until we get around to even giving you a hearing to establish your status.
that is some fucked up business.
we can say “well, that’s the law”, but actually it’s not. it’s executive policy, the law does not require it. it’s a choice, and among other things it’s a choice about what kind of people we want to be.
embrace it, or not. if you do, you have taken a side. the reality and legacy of this belongs to you, you own it.
Russell got there before me.
Now, just me, not Russell:
There will be savage retribution against the entire republican edifice.
Russell got there before me.
Now, just me, not Russell:
There will be savage retribution against the entire republican edifice.
First, there are several points here russell 10:01.
“we do that after they have been tried and found guilty of a violation of criminal law.”
First and simplest this is not true, we arrest and hold people for varying lengths of time before they are even charged, but certainly before they are convicted:
Second, people presenting themselves to apply for asylum come in a pretty broad range of circumstances. I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them. If true that is unacceptable, I don’t think the accusation is credible. What circumstance actually prompts this action?
Third, if you “simply” overstay your visa and then go home I’m pretty sure no one takes your kids. If you turn yourself in on the other hand, and ask to stay, see the first point.
I’m all for humane treatment, but if someone shows up and applies for asylum who has been here illegally for a number of years are you saying we just give them a court date, let them stay and hope they show up? Or should we give them a court date and send them home to return on said date? Should we put them up in an apartment until the court date?
Fundamentally you keep going back to, this is just a misdemeanor, essentially saying they haven’t done anything wrong. The difference is they haven’t shown, to our knowledge, that they are a physical threat to persons or things, that’s why it’s not a felony. It doesn’t mean it’s just ok for them to be here, except it is to you. so you are pretty much against any enforcement.
You know people and like them and don’t want them to be deported, or even worried about it. I get that. I wish no one had to live like that, but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
First, there are several points here russell 10:01.
“we do that after they have been tried and found guilty of a violation of criminal law.”
First and simplest this is not true, we arrest and hold people for varying lengths of time before they are even charged, but certainly before they are convicted:
Second, people presenting themselves to apply for asylum come in a pretty broad range of circumstances. I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them. If true that is unacceptable, I don’t think the accusation is credible. What circumstance actually prompts this action?
Third, if you “simply” overstay your visa and then go home I’m pretty sure no one takes your kids. If you turn yourself in on the other hand, and ask to stay, see the first point.
I’m all for humane treatment, but if someone shows up and applies for asylum who has been here illegally for a number of years are you saying we just give them a court date, let them stay and hope they show up? Or should we give them a court date and send them home to return on said date? Should we put them up in an apartment until the court date?
Fundamentally you keep going back to, this is just a misdemeanor, essentially saying they haven’t done anything wrong. The difference is they haven’t shown, to our knowledge, that they are a physical threat to persons or things, that’s why it’s not a felony. It doesn’t mean it’s just ok for them to be here, except it is to you. so you are pretty much against any enforcement.
You know people and like them and don’t want them to be deported, or even worried about it. I get that. I wish no one had to live like that, but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
Marty: … but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
Now there’s a Christian attitude for you.
–TP
Marty: … but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
Now there’s a Christian attitude for you.
–TP
I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them.
I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them.
I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them. If true that is unacceptable, I don’t think the accusation is credible. What circumstance actually prompts this action?this. Many of these people are escaping death threats.
Read this. And
The State Department warns Americans not to travel to Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua (look those up if you want). The “choice” is to stay and have their children killed or to flee.
Let’s stop being heartless. We can welcome refugees.
I would like some credible source saying that people outside the US show up at the port of entry and have their children immediately taken from them. If true that is unacceptable, I don’t think the accusation is credible. What circumstance actually prompts this action?this. Many of these people are escaping death threats.
Read this. And
The State Department warns Americans not to travel to Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua (look those up if you want). The “choice” is to stay and have their children killed or to flee.
Let’s stop being heartless. We can welcome refugees.
Marty is here to educate us on the world according to He, Trump.
In that world, there appears to be rash of instances wherein “someone shows up and applies for asylum who has been here illegally for a number of years”.
If Marty wants “evidence”, so do I. Where do you get this crap, Marty?
–TP
Marty is here to educate us on the world according to He, Trump.
In that world, there appears to be rash of instances wherein “someone shows up and applies for asylum who has been here illegally for a number of years”.
If Marty wants “evidence”, so do I. Where do you get this crap, Marty?
–TP
More.
More.
Marty: … but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
TP: Now there’s a Christian attitude for you.
Not to mention that it chops off the definition of “their circumstance” in the narrowest way, and at the point most convenient to the purposes of authoritarian exclusionary cruelty.
“Their circumstance” in the wider sense often includes poverty or danger in their home countries extreme enough to make a perilous trek across the desert in search of an increasingly forlorn hope seem preferable. And in that sense, “their circumstance” is not remotely of their own making.
I was hassled by a border security guy once when I was coming back into the country from Ireland with my daughter, who was about 4 years old at the time (very early 1990s). I was schlepping the child and the luggage away from the luggage carousel (having already been chided by a sanctimonious old fart because he didn’t like how close I was letting the kid get to the carousel).
The border guy ignored me and said to my daughter, very unpleasantly, “Where’s your daddy?”
My daughter was born defiant, and she had also just come off a transatlantic flight and was exhausted and crabby. (As was I.) She ignored him.
When he pressed her and she continued not to answer, I finally told him that her daddy was in Washington that day, meeting with one of Maine’s congresscritters. (This was true. Not that an appeal to that kind of “circumstance” should be necessary for two people with valid American passports to come back home.) He backed off and waved us through.
This came some months after I had to demand a conversation with a supervisor at the Augusta post office, because the clerk told me I couldn’t get my kids passports because they didn’t have the same last name as mine. If there’s anything worse than a petty tyrant, it’s an ignorant petty tyrant.
Marty: … but it’s their decision that has created their circumstance.
TP: Now there’s a Christian attitude for you.
Not to mention that it chops off the definition of “their circumstance” in the narrowest way, and at the point most convenient to the purposes of authoritarian exclusionary cruelty.
“Their circumstance” in the wider sense often includes poverty or danger in their home countries extreme enough to make a perilous trek across the desert in search of an increasingly forlorn hope seem preferable. And in that sense, “their circumstance” is not remotely of their own making.
I was hassled by a border security guy once when I was coming back into the country from Ireland with my daughter, who was about 4 years old at the time (very early 1990s). I was schlepping the child and the luggage away from the luggage carousel (having already been chided by a sanctimonious old fart because he didn’t like how close I was letting the kid get to the carousel).
The border guy ignored me and said to my daughter, very unpleasantly, “Where’s your daddy?”
My daughter was born defiant, and she had also just come off a transatlantic flight and was exhausted and crabby. (As was I.) She ignored him.
When he pressed her and she continued not to answer, I finally told him that her daddy was in Washington that day, meeting with one of Maine’s congresscritters. (This was true. Not that an appeal to that kind of “circumstance” should be necessary for two people with valid American passports to come back home.) He backed off and waved us through.
This came some months after I had to demand a conversation with a supervisor at the Augusta post office, because the clerk told me I couldn’t get my kids passports because they didn’t have the same last name as mine. If there’s anything worse than a petty tyrant, it’s an ignorant petty tyrant.
Footnotes.
1. As for the border guard who chose to talk unpleasantly to a child rather than in a businesslike way to the parent — there’s no excuse for being an asshole. The job can be done just as effectively without the bullying and implied threat.
2. As for the Augusta p.o. clerk, let me be clearer: based on his own words, his attitude was rooted in bigotry about gender roles. A woman who had children out of wedlock, or who refused to take her husband’s name — anathema.
Footnotes.
1. As for the border guard who chose to talk unpleasantly to a child rather than in a businesslike way to the parent — there’s no excuse for being an asshole. The job can be done just as effectively without the bullying and implied threat.
2. As for the Augusta p.o. clerk, let me be clearer: based on his own words, his attitude was rooted in bigotry about gender roles. A woman who had children out of wedlock, or who refused to take her husband’s name — anathema.
Government Has ‘Lost’ 1,475 Unaccompanied Minors It Apprehended at the U.S. Border*: Innocent kids will likely bear a terrible cost to “make America great again.”
Government Has ‘Lost’ 1,475 Unaccompanied Minors It Apprehended at the U.S. Border*: Innocent kids will likely bear a terrible cost to “make America great again.”
JanieM: If there’s anything worse than a petty tyrant, it’s an ignorant petty tyrant.
There IS one thing worse, Janie. It’s an ignorant petty tyrant who presents himself — and is accepted as — a “nice guy” by his neighbors and acquaintances in private life. An ignorant petty tyrant who is kind to animals, helpful to his neighbors, a pillar of his church, a convivial golfer, etc.
That kind of ignorant petty tyrant is worse because he’s more dangerous than an ignorant petty tyrant who is a blatant asshole to everyone who knows him. He is more dangerous because he is not shunned by polite society.
I would like to think that kind of ignorant petty tyrant is rare — but I fear he isn’t.
–TP
JanieM: If there’s anything worse than a petty tyrant, it’s an ignorant petty tyrant.
There IS one thing worse, Janie. It’s an ignorant petty tyrant who presents himself — and is accepted as — a “nice guy” by his neighbors and acquaintances in private life. An ignorant petty tyrant who is kind to animals, helpful to his neighbors, a pillar of his church, a convivial golfer, etc.
That kind of ignorant petty tyrant is worse because he’s more dangerous than an ignorant petty tyrant who is a blatant asshole to everyone who knows him. He is more dangerous because he is not shunned by polite society.
I would like to think that kind of ignorant petty tyrant is rare — but I fear he isn’t.
–TP
TP — sad to say, not rare at all, as far as I can tell.
TP — sad to say, not rare at all, as far as I can tell.
700 kids, out of? “In order to protect children” where parental relationship can’t be ascertained. In other words, lets make sure they aren’t human trafficking victims.
Asshole government employees exist everywhere, so do conscientious people trying to do the best they can.
700 kids, out of? “In order to protect children” where parental relationship can’t be ascertained. In other words, lets make sure they aren’t human trafficking victims.
Asshole government employees exist everywhere, so do conscientious people trying to do the best they can.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/27/us/texas-border-patrol-shooting-victim/index.html
She was safer in Guatemala being raped by gangs than she was seeking refuge in the land of exceptional subhuman republican murderers.
“Asshole government employees exist everywhere”
Usually, as in the general population, it is a matter of individual temperament and a character flaw.
The White House is hiring subhuman republican assholes from the general population expressly to order federal employees to be assholes in their jobs and worse.
But, of course, it is they, the white, armed, stinking, fucking republican assholes, who are the victims, the bugs:
mp thumbs, this morning loving his preciouses:
“Who’s going to give back the young and beautiful lives (and others) that have been devastated and destroyed by the phony Russia Collusion Witch Hunt? They journeyed down to Washington, D.C., with stars in their eyes and wanting to help our nation…They went back home in tatters!”
We aren’t going to give anything back to these filth, except vengeance.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/27/us/texas-border-patrol-shooting-victim/index.html
She was safer in Guatemala being raped by gangs than she was seeking refuge in the land of exceptional subhuman republican murderers.
“Asshole government employees exist everywhere”
Usually, as in the general population, it is a matter of individual temperament and a character flaw.
The White House is hiring subhuman republican assholes from the general population expressly to order federal employees to be assholes in their jobs and worse.
But, of course, it is they, the white, armed, stinking, fucking republican assholes, who are the victims, the bugs:
mp thumbs, this morning loving his preciouses:
“Who’s going to give back the young and beautiful lives (and others) that have been devastated and destroyed by the phony Russia Collusion Witch Hunt? They journeyed down to Washington, D.C., with stars in their eyes and wanting to help our nation…They went back home in tatters!”
We aren’t going to give anything back to these filth, except vengeance.
Marty, making excuses for fascist ICE assholes. I thought he was better than that, but learn something new every day, I guess.
“A few bad apples” went and spoiled the whole barrel. Bury them in a landfill.
Marty, making excuses for fascist ICE assholes. I thought he was better than that, but learn something new every day, I guess.
“A few bad apples” went and spoiled the whole barrel. Bury them in a landfill.
young and beautiful lives
WTF is he baiting for clicks about now?
It’s like the judge who was worried that the rapist’s life would be ruined if he got the sentence he deserved.
young and beautiful lives
WTF is he baiting for clicks about now?
It’s like the judge who was worried that the rapist’s life would be ruined if he got the sentence he deserved.
First and simplest this is not true, we arrest and hold people for varying lengths of time before they are even charged, but certainly before they are convicted:
Two words: habeas corpus. Not to mention a right to a lawyer, bail hearings, etc. All available to anyone arrested. They may not get bail, but they definitely get a hearing.
I don’t know about other states, but in California you must be arraigned within 48 hours (excluding weedends and holidays) of being arrested. And even making you wait that long can be considered excessive.
First and simplest this is not true, we arrest and hold people for varying lengths of time before they are even charged, but certainly before they are convicted:
Two words: habeas corpus. Not to mention a right to a lawyer, bail hearings, etc. All available to anyone arrested. They may not get bail, but they definitely get a hearing.
I don’t know about other states, but in California you must be arraigned within 48 hours (excluding weedends and holidays) of being arrested. And even making you wait that long can be considered excessive.
Fundamentally you keep going back to, this is just a misdemeanor, essentially saying they haven’t done anything wrong
No. I’m saying it’s a misdemeanor.
In non-immigration criminal law, there is a limit to how long you cn be held without being araigned, and there is a limit to how long the courts can make you wait for a trial after you’ve been arraigned. And barring unusual circumstances there is usually opportunity for bail.
Conversely, it’s not unusual to spend months or years in immigration detention before you get a hearing. there may be an opportunity to post a bond, but most of the people we’re talking about don’t have a lot of money.
I have no problem whtsoever with deporting people who are here withou proper authorization and who present any kind of danger or threat to other people. I have no problem with requiring people who are here without proper authorization to present themselves to immigration authorities and begin a process of obtaining legal status. And I don’t really have a problem with trying to prevent people from simply walking across the border to enter the country, and sending them back home if they do so.
I am absolutely opposed to taking people’s kids away from them, and holding them for months and years before they get a hearing on their status. I am absolutely opposed to pursuing people who are going about their daily lives as if they are dangerous criminals.
The way we treat undocumented immigrants, and especially spanish-speaking undocumented immigrants, is cruel to the point of being literally brutal. there is no good reason for it.
we have committed ourselves to policies that are unenforceable other than through the mchinery of a police state. so, we are now becoming a police state.
we don’t need to treat people like this. it serves no good end.
Fundamentally you keep going back to, this is just a misdemeanor, essentially saying they haven’t done anything wrong
No. I’m saying it’s a misdemeanor.
In non-immigration criminal law, there is a limit to how long you cn be held without being araigned, and there is a limit to how long the courts can make you wait for a trial after you’ve been arraigned. And barring unusual circumstances there is usually opportunity for bail.
Conversely, it’s not unusual to spend months or years in immigration detention before you get a hearing. there may be an opportunity to post a bond, but most of the people we’re talking about don’t have a lot of money.
I have no problem whtsoever with deporting people who are here withou proper authorization and who present any kind of danger or threat to other people. I have no problem with requiring people who are here without proper authorization to present themselves to immigration authorities and begin a process of obtaining legal status. And I don’t really have a problem with trying to prevent people from simply walking across the border to enter the country, and sending them back home if they do so.
I am absolutely opposed to taking people’s kids away from them, and holding them for months and years before they get a hearing on their status. I am absolutely opposed to pursuing people who are going about their daily lives as if they are dangerous criminals.
The way we treat undocumented immigrants, and especially spanish-speaking undocumented immigrants, is cruel to the point of being literally brutal. there is no good reason for it.
we have committed ourselves to policies that are unenforceable other than through the mchinery of a police state. so, we are now becoming a police state.
we don’t need to treat people like this. it serves no good end.
Who’s going to give back the young and beautiful lives (and others)
i like the “and others”. i’m glad to see our presidnt didn’t forget ugly old geezers like me.
Who’s going to give back the young and beautiful lives (and others)
i like the “and others”. i’m glad to see our presidnt didn’t forget ugly old geezers like me.
I m fine with demanding they have an initial hearing within 48 hrs. Then what?
In my rudimentary understanding of the process there are different time lengths and outcomes. Just caught walking across the border? you get sent home pretty quick, except for your lawyer trying to prevent that.
In general, I think people who walk across the border or ignore the go home date on their visa should expect to get hunted down.
The real cruelty is doing that so badly that people can live here a decade and more without getting caught.
Then it builds a false expectation they have gotten away with it, created a life that they then get ripped away.
I m fine with demanding they have an initial hearing within 48 hrs. Then what?
In my rudimentary understanding of the process there are different time lengths and outcomes. Just caught walking across the border? you get sent home pretty quick, except for your lawyer trying to prevent that.
In general, I think people who walk across the border or ignore the go home date on their visa should expect to get hunted down.
The real cruelty is doing that so badly that people can live here a decade and more without getting caught.
Then it builds a false expectation they have gotten away with it, created a life that they then get ripped away.
put em down for a Squatter’s Rights kind of thing. if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.
what more could “conservatives” possibly ask for than decent law-abiding citizens who keep their heads down and their noses clean?
(no, don’t answer. i already know.)
put em down for a Squatter’s Rights kind of thing. if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.
what more could “conservatives” possibly ask for than decent law-abiding citizens who keep their heads down and their noses clean?
(no, don’t answer. i already know.)
“and others…”
“and others…”
if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.
I think I’d stop at “legal permanent resident.” If you want to be a citizen, you still gotta do the classes and the test.
if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.
I think I’d stop at “legal permanent resident.” If you want to be a citizen, you still gotta do the classes and the test.
I m fine with demanding they have an initial hearing within 48 hrs.
Of whom are you demanding this? Immigration enforcement doesn’t give a rat’s ass what you demand.
Also, this.
Try to enter the US without proper docs, and you’ll never see your kids again.
Why try to defend stuff like this? It will only demean you.
I m fine with demanding they have an initial hearing within 48 hrs.
Of whom are you demanding this? Immigration enforcement doesn’t give a rat’s ass what you demand.
Also, this.
Try to enter the US without proper docs, and you’ll never see your kids again.
Why try to defend stuff like this? It will only demean you.
Try to enter the US without proper docs, and you’ll never see your kids again.
And the government may never see them again either.
Try to enter the US without proper docs, and you’ll never see your kids again.
And the government may never see them again either.
“Squatter’s Rights kind of thing. if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.”
Lots of people would be better with this if it didn’t entice millions of people to follow.
I am fine with amnesty, again, if there were any commitment to actually controlling the border. But with amnesty comes another 10 or 20 million People flooding across the border.
“Squatter’s Rights kind of thing. if you can live a decent, unremarkable life without any run-ins with the law, for ten years, you’re a US citizen.”
Lots of people would be better with this if it didn’t entice millions of people to follow.
I am fine with amnesty, again, if there were any commitment to actually controlling the border. But with amnesty comes another 10 or 20 million People flooding across the border.
I thought this was an interesting piece by Rebecca Solnit, and the extract below echoes stuff russell seems to have been saying for a while:
PBS News Hour featured a quiz by Charles Murray in March that asked “Do You Live in a Bubble?” The questions assumed that if you didn’t know people who drank cheap beer and drove pick-up trucks and worked in factories you lived in an elitist bubble. Among the questions: “Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American community with a population under 50,000 that is not part of a metropolitan area and is not where you went to college? Have you ever walked on a factory floor? Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?”
The quiz is essentially about whether you are in touch with working-class small-town white Christian America, as though everyone who’s not Joe the Plumber is Maurice the Elitist. We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us. Less than 20 percent of Americans are white evangelicals, only slightly more than are Latino. Most Americans are urban. The quiz delivers, yet again, the message that the 80 percent of us who live in urban areas are not America, treats non-Protestant (including the quarter of this country that is Catholic) and non-white people as not America, treats many kinds of underpaid working people (salespeople, service workers, farmworkers) who are not male industrial workers as not America. More Americans work in museums than work in coal, but coalminers are treated as sacred beings owed huge subsidies and the sacrifice of the climate, and museum workers—well, no one is talking about their jobs as a totem of our national identity.
I thought this was an interesting piece by Rebecca Solnit, and the extract below echoes stuff russell seems to have been saying for a while:
PBS News Hour featured a quiz by Charles Murray in March that asked “Do You Live in a Bubble?” The questions assumed that if you didn’t know people who drank cheap beer and drove pick-up trucks and worked in factories you lived in an elitist bubble. Among the questions: “Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American community with a population under 50,000 that is not part of a metropolitan area and is not where you went to college? Have you ever walked on a factory floor? Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?”
The quiz is essentially about whether you are in touch with working-class small-town white Christian America, as though everyone who’s not Joe the Plumber is Maurice the Elitist. We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us. Less than 20 percent of Americans are white evangelicals, only slightly more than are Latino. Most Americans are urban. The quiz delivers, yet again, the message that the 80 percent of us who live in urban areas are not America, treats non-Protestant (including the quarter of this country that is Catholic) and non-white people as not America, treats many kinds of underpaid working people (salespeople, service workers, farmworkers) who are not male industrial workers as not America. More Americans work in museums than work in coal, but coalminers are treated as sacred beings owed huge subsidies and the sacrifice of the climate, and museum workers—well, no one is talking about their jobs as a totem of our national identity.
This piece via LGM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/taking-children-from-their-parents-is-a-form-of-state-terror
A few hours after Putin took his fourth oath of office, in Moscow, Attorney General Jeff Sessions addressed a law-enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. He pledged to separate families that are detained crossing the Mexico-U.S. border. “If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated from you,” Sessions said. The Attorney General did not appear to be unveiling a new policy so much as amplifying a practice that has been adopted by the Trump Administration, which has been separating parents who are in immigration detention from their children. The Times reported in December that the federal government was considering a policy of separating families in order to discourage asylum seekers from entering. By that time, nonprofit groups were already raising the alarm about the practice, which they said had affected a number of families. In March, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the hundreds of families that had been separated when they entered the country with the intention of seeking asylum.
The practice, and Sessions’s speech, are explicitly intended as messages to parents who may consider seeking asylum in the United States. The American government has unleashed terror on immigrants, and in doing so has naturally reached for the most effective tools.
This piece via LGM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/taking-children-from-their-parents-is-a-form-of-state-terror
A few hours after Putin took his fourth oath of office, in Moscow, Attorney General Jeff Sessions addressed a law-enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. He pledged to separate families that are detained crossing the Mexico-U.S. border. “If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated from you,” Sessions said. The Attorney General did not appear to be unveiling a new policy so much as amplifying a practice that has been adopted by the Trump Administration, which has been separating parents who are in immigration detention from their children. The Times reported in December that the federal government was considering a policy of separating families in order to discourage asylum seekers from entering. By that time, nonprofit groups were already raising the alarm about the practice, which they said had affected a number of families. In March, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the hundreds of families that had been separated when they entered the country with the intention of seeking asylum.
The practice, and Sessions’s speech, are explicitly intended as messages to parents who may consider seeking asylum in the United States. The American government has unleashed terror on immigrants, and in doing so has naturally reached for the most effective tools.
We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us.
I think you could make a case that they can’t help knowing us. For the simple reason that popular culture (in spite of the best efforts of Fox) is generated from the major metro areas. That’s where the TV shows are created — and mostly set. That’s where the music (except for country. Maybe — note that Nashville’s population is nearly 700,000) is written. That’s where the movies come from. In short, there’s just no avoiding it.
We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us.
I think you could make a case that they can’t help knowing us. For the simple reason that popular culture (in spite of the best efforts of Fox) is generated from the major metro areas. That’s where the TV shows are created — and mostly set. That’s where the music (except for country. Maybe — note that Nashville’s population is nearly 700,000) is written. That’s where the movies come from. In short, there’s just no avoiding it.
Charles Murray doesn’t live in a bubble?
Charles Murray doesn’t live in a bubble?
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy. And getting your kids to stay in there with you is probably a lost cause — even with home schooling.
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy. And getting your kids to stay in there with you is probably a lost cause — even with home schooling.
I think you could make a case that they can’t help knowing us.
TV schedule for the Quad Cities.
For Denver.
For St Louis.
Omaha.
Greensboro SC.
Branson.
I’m not seeing a lot of people like me out there. Downton Abbey is schedled in Branson, and those folks are elites, but nobody I know lives that way.
The biggest radio station network in the US is owned by iHeart Media, formerly ClearChannel, of San Antonio TX. They also own ClearChannel Outdoor, which is one of the largest outdoor advertising companies in the US. They used to own LiveNation, which dominates concert venues.
They are, notably, a politically conservative outfit, and their programming generally reflects that.
Other than rap, R&B and jazz, the music industry is largely, and increasingly, oriented toward Nashville. Not country music, pop music overall.
The hard-working yeomen and -women of the heartland are not having our debauched secular humanist ways jammed down their throats via the media.
Seriously, it is time for this myth to die. Kill it. Put a stake through its heart. It’s destroying the nation.
I think you could make a case that they can’t help knowing us.
TV schedule for the Quad Cities.
For Denver.
For St Louis.
Omaha.
Greensboro SC.
Branson.
I’m not seeing a lot of people like me out there. Downton Abbey is schedled in Branson, and those folks are elites, but nobody I know lives that way.
The biggest radio station network in the US is owned by iHeart Media, formerly ClearChannel, of San Antonio TX. They also own ClearChannel Outdoor, which is one of the largest outdoor advertising companies in the US. They used to own LiveNation, which dominates concert venues.
They are, notably, a politically conservative outfit, and their programming generally reflects that.
Other than rap, R&B and jazz, the music industry is largely, and increasingly, oriented toward Nashville. Not country music, pop music overall.
The hard-working yeomen and -women of the heartland are not having our debauched secular humanist ways jammed down their throats via the media.
Seriously, it is time for this myth to die. Kill it. Put a stake through its heart. It’s destroying the nation.
wj: If you want to be a citizen, you still gotta do the classes and the test.
The US might be a better nation if that applied to immigrants through the maternity ward as well as immigrants across the border.
I took a test, swore an oath, and have a certificate that says I’m a citizen of the US. What have “natural-born citizens” got?
–TP
wj: If you want to be a citizen, you still gotta do the classes and the test.
The US might be a better nation if that applied to immigrants through the maternity ward as well as immigrants across the border.
I took a test, swore an oath, and have a certificate that says I’m a citizen of the US. What have “natural-born citizens” got?
–TP
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy.
Does anyone think that’s a one-way street? Like all of us coastal elitists somehow escape hearing all about the interests and byways of the flyover folks?
If I have to read one more story about some guy eating scrambled eggs while wearing a flannel shirt at Big Eddie’s short order, I’m gonna puke.
I had breakfast at Maria’s short order this morning, with my wife. Swiss omelet, rye toast, crisp bacon. Do I get to be an American now? Or am I disqualified because I didn’t have my omelet with American cheese?
Maybe I shoulda had two over easy on white toast.
Is there anything stupider that we could possibly argue about? Is there anything that could possibly be a bigger waste of time than some guy in Ames IA worrying about what kind of lettuce I like?
People should do as they like and live as they like. If you want to live a NYC life, move to NYC. If you want to live an Idaho life, move to Idaho. It’s a free country, nobody will stop you.
What I’d like to know is what score Charles Murray got on his own test. If he’s ever been on a factory floor other than as an “observer of the working class”, I’ll eat my freaking hat.
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy.
Does anyone think that’s a one-way street? Like all of us coastal elitists somehow escape hearing all about the interests and byways of the flyover folks?
If I have to read one more story about some guy eating scrambled eggs while wearing a flannel shirt at Big Eddie’s short order, I’m gonna puke.
I had breakfast at Maria’s short order this morning, with my wife. Swiss omelet, rye toast, crisp bacon. Do I get to be an American now? Or am I disqualified because I didn’t have my omelet with American cheese?
Maybe I shoulda had two over easy on white toast.
Is there anything stupider that we could possibly argue about? Is there anything that could possibly be a bigger waste of time than some guy in Ames IA worrying about what kind of lettuce I like?
People should do as they like and live as they like. If you want to live a NYC life, move to NYC. If you want to live an Idaho life, move to Idaho. It’s a free country, nobody will stop you.
What I’d like to know is what score Charles Murray got on his own test. If he’s ever been on a factory floor other than as an “observer of the working class”, I’ll eat my freaking hat.
The US might be a better nation if that applied to immigrants through the maternity ward as well as immigrants across the border.
Not required to pass the test, certainly. But, at least when I was there, the high school seniors had a Civics class which was supposed to cover the same material as the citizenship class.
But I wouldn’t argue with the thesis that naturalized citizens, as a group, at at least as knowledgeable and more committed that us “natural born” citizens.
The US might be a better nation if that applied to immigrants through the maternity ward as well as immigrants across the border.
Not required to pass the test, certainly. But, at least when I was there, the high school seniors had a Civics class which was supposed to cover the same material as the citizenship class.
But I wouldn’t argue with the thesis that naturalized citizens, as a group, at at least as knowledgeable and more committed that us “natural born” citizens.
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy.
It’s easy as pie.
On my annual or so drives between Maine and Ohio, taking as much of the route off the interstate as I can manage, I sometimes channel surf on the radio. There’s an awful lot of Jesus, and not that much NPR. And I barely even get out of the “northeast” on that trip. (I certainly understand why someone said that Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh and Philly with Alabama in between. You can throw in a lot of western New York, too.)
Besides Clearchannel/iHeart or whatever it is, there’s Sinclair…everywhere.
Not saying it isn’t possible to live in a bubble. Just that it isn’t easy.
It’s easy as pie.
On my annual or so drives between Maine and Ohio, taking as much of the route off the interstate as I can manage, I sometimes channel surf on the radio. There’s an awful lot of Jesus, and not that much NPR. And I barely even get out of the “northeast” on that trip. (I certainly understand why someone said that Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh and Philly with Alabama in between. You can throw in a lot of western New York, too.)
Besides Clearchannel/iHeart or whatever it is, there’s Sinclair…everywhere.
For anybody who didn’t read the whole (not long) piece, the paragraph after the one I quoted says:
PBS added a little note at the end of the bubble quiz, “The introduction has been edited to clarify Charles Murray’s expertise, which focuses on white American culture.” They don’t mention that he’s the author of the notorious Bell Curve or explain why someone widely considered racist was welcomed onto a publicly funded program. Perhaps the actual problem is that white Christian suburban, small-town, and rural America includes too many people who want to live in a bubble and think they’re entitled to, and that all of us who are not like them are menaces and intrusions who needs to be cleared out of the way.
For anybody who didn’t read the whole (not long) piece, the paragraph after the one I quoted says:
PBS added a little note at the end of the bubble quiz, “The introduction has been edited to clarify Charles Murray’s expertise, which focuses on white American culture.” They don’t mention that he’s the author of the notorious Bell Curve or explain why someone widely considered racist was welcomed onto a publicly funded program. Perhaps the actual problem is that white Christian suburban, small-town, and rural America includes too many people who want to live in a bubble and think they’re entitled to, and that all of us who are not like them are menaces and intrusions who needs to be cleared out of the way.
Well yes, I let that part slide right by. Why is PBS giving Charles Murray a nanosecond of airtime?
This is part of why I mostly listen to books on CD on my trips now….
Well yes, I let that part slide right by. Why is PBS giving Charles Murray a nanosecond of airtime?
This is part of why I mostly listen to books on CD on my trips now….
Marty: I think people who walk across the border or ignore the go home date on their visa should expect to get hunted down.
You want that to work? Get behind a mandatory national ID card. Issue temporary ID cards, with the expiration date in big, bold type to visa holders. Require everybody to “show your papers” at every traffic stop, at every government office, and at any polling place. Require anybody who wants to hire you, sell you a house, rent you a room, rent you a car, provide you internet access, let you on a plane, or sell you a gun to verify that your ID card is authentic and not expired. Make it mandatory for pasty-white old Christians as well as swarthy young heathens to prove, on demand, that they are “legally in the country”. That will do the trick.
–TP
Marty: I think people who walk across the border or ignore the go home date on their visa should expect to get hunted down.
You want that to work? Get behind a mandatory national ID card. Issue temporary ID cards, with the expiration date in big, bold type to visa holders. Require everybody to “show your papers” at every traffic stop, at every government office, and at any polling place. Require anybody who wants to hire you, sell you a house, rent you a room, rent you a car, provide you internet access, let you on a plane, or sell you a gun to verify that your ID card is authentic and not expired. Make it mandatory for pasty-white old Christians as well as swarthy young heathens to prove, on demand, that they are “legally in the country”. That will do the trick.
–TP
Actually, the piece is about a lot more than the elite-urban-coastal versus working-rural-heartland, and more interesting for it, although (gasp) it could be considered to have a SJW, even (eeek) intersectionalist, viewpoint:
The common denominator of so many of the strange and troubling cultural narratives coming our way is a set of assumptions about who matters, whose story it is, who deserves the pity and the treats and the presumptions of innocence, the kid gloves and the red carpet, and ultimately the kingdom, the power, and the glory. You already know who. It’s white people in general and white men in particular, and especially white Protestant men, some of whom are apparently dismayed to find out that there is going to be, as your mom might have put it, sharing. The history of this country has been written as their story, and the news sometimes still tells it this way—one of the battles of our time is about who the story is about, who matters and who decides.
Actually, the piece is about a lot more than the elite-urban-coastal versus working-rural-heartland, and more interesting for it, although (gasp) it could be considered to have a SJW, even (eeek) intersectionalist, viewpoint:
The common denominator of so many of the strange and troubling cultural narratives coming our way is a set of assumptions about who matters, whose story it is, who deserves the pity and the treats and the presumptions of innocence, the kid gloves and the red carpet, and ultimately the kingdom, the power, and the glory. You already know who. It’s white people in general and white men in particular, and especially white Protestant men, some of whom are apparently dismayed to find out that there is going to be, as your mom might have put it, sharing. The history of this country has been written as their story, and the news sometimes still tells it this way—one of the battles of our time is about who the story is about, who matters and who decides.
“You want that to work? Get behind a mandatory national ID card.”
that is SO old-school.
Everyone should get ‘chipped’. And all firearms should have a chip-reader, so that they only work for their owner.
Fundie types that object can get an extra ANTI chip implanted, (made out of anti-matter) to cancel out the regular chip. It’ll help propel them to heaven, also, too.
“You want that to work? Get behind a mandatory national ID card.”
that is SO old-school.
Everyone should get ‘chipped’. And all firearms should have a chip-reader, so that they only work for their owner.
Fundie types that object can get an extra ANTI chip implanted, (made out of anti-matter) to cancel out the regular chip. It’ll help propel them to heaven, also, too.
In his book on education, Murray wrote that half of all children are below average.
So we know that he didn’t grow up in the small mid-western town called Lake Wobegon.
But we also know that many of the other half of the children, the above-average ones, pick up stakes the first chance they get, and move to urban areas where the opportunity is, for the most part.
The Johnny Carsons and the Dick Cavetts. Most actors. Most scientists. Nearly all doctors. All CEOs. Professional athletes.
For their trouble, they are branded as elites.
The above-average were upwardly mobile and somehow the conservative movement can extol upward mobility out of one wide of their mouths and declare the very same upward mobility the source of liberal evil out the other side of their surly below-average gobs.
Tucker Carlson, that effete toff, is a populist.
He can link arms with Don Blankenship and kick solar-powered faggot ass in public bathrooms and live high on the conservative hog food chain and claim authentic grass-roots victim-hood simultaneously.
Oddly enough, writers from rural America tend to stay where they were raised … Walker Percy, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee, Marilynn Robinson.
Writers raised in urban settings tend to flee TO the countryside at some point … Salinger, McGuane, Bellow for part of his life, and Philip Roth (gone now too, dammit), which Walker Percy would describe as a species of rotation and re-entry in the Kierkagaardian (himself an urban Copenhagen boy) sense.
Many actors and actresses migrate to the coasts where the work is. Many who make it big in the movies, including now independent films, play small town/rural characters leading desperate or not-so-desperate lives.
Their high school friends who stayed at home to maybe work what’s left of the family farm or run the local John Deere distributorship watch these hometown, now famous actors on the screens, at the local movie theaters and now on electronic media, playing the people they grew up with and sitting in the theater in the small town of Quotidia, Nebraska.
It’s an odd phenomenon.
The below average children stayed home, and there is nothing wrong with that, but they embraced populism and voted for mp. Some of them even benefited from mp’s affirmative action programs for the below average and were appointed to jobs in his administration for which they are woefully unqualified … which IS the qualification … so much so that many them lied on their resumes, granting themselves fake graduate degrees at elite universities they hope to see destroyed.
Punks running the cabanas at mp resorts two years ago are now in charge of hiring other punks and punketts to ruin science policy, akin to book burning, for example, at the federal level.
The Middlebury college students who disrupted Murray’s appearance at their college were wrong to do so.
They should have permitted him to be wrong in public.
Interestingly, Murray was a Peace Corps volunteer in Thailand, as I was, in the Philippines.
He stayed in-country to work for the U.S.intelligence apparatus in counter insurgency.
In the Philippines, we volunteers were warned that Filipinos in some parts of the country held us in contempt because they suspected we might be CIA, or such. We also knew who in USAID were suspected of being more than “aid specialists”, if you know what I mean, and to keep our distance, because you might be placing yourself in danger with your Filipino counterparts and other “more serious” fucking people.
Murray broke that unwritten rule.
I read “The Bell Curve” twice back when it appeared.
It’s written better than “Mein Kampf” and “Atlas Shrugged”, both of which would have been highly improved with lots of graphs, I’ll give it that.
Odd that 25 years later, we’ve seen a black President whose intelligence resided somewhere near the far right-hand high intelligence side of the curve and, in nearly violent reaction, we now have a President whose very thumbs reside at the far bottom of the left-hand nary a brain cell available side.
I think the Laffer Curve is the more relevant to Murray’s agenda.
In his book on education, Murray wrote that half of all children are below average.
So we know that he didn’t grow up in the small mid-western town called Lake Wobegon.
But we also know that many of the other half of the children, the above-average ones, pick up stakes the first chance they get, and move to urban areas where the opportunity is, for the most part.
The Johnny Carsons and the Dick Cavetts. Most actors. Most scientists. Nearly all doctors. All CEOs. Professional athletes.
For their trouble, they are branded as elites.
The above-average were upwardly mobile and somehow the conservative movement can extol upward mobility out of one wide of their mouths and declare the very same upward mobility the source of liberal evil out the other side of their surly below-average gobs.
Tucker Carlson, that effete toff, is a populist.
He can link arms with Don Blankenship and kick solar-powered faggot ass in public bathrooms and live high on the conservative hog food chain and claim authentic grass-roots victim-hood simultaneously.
Oddly enough, writers from rural America tend to stay where they were raised … Walker Percy, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee, Marilynn Robinson.
Writers raised in urban settings tend to flee TO the countryside at some point … Salinger, McGuane, Bellow for part of his life, and Philip Roth (gone now too, dammit), which Walker Percy would describe as a species of rotation and re-entry in the Kierkagaardian (himself an urban Copenhagen boy) sense.
Many actors and actresses migrate to the coasts where the work is. Many who make it big in the movies, including now independent films, play small town/rural characters leading desperate or not-so-desperate lives.
Their high school friends who stayed at home to maybe work what’s left of the family farm or run the local John Deere distributorship watch these hometown, now famous actors on the screens, at the local movie theaters and now on electronic media, playing the people they grew up with and sitting in the theater in the small town of Quotidia, Nebraska.
It’s an odd phenomenon.
The below average children stayed home, and there is nothing wrong with that, but they embraced populism and voted for mp. Some of them even benefited from mp’s affirmative action programs for the below average and were appointed to jobs in his administration for which they are woefully unqualified … which IS the qualification … so much so that many them lied on their resumes, granting themselves fake graduate degrees at elite universities they hope to see destroyed.
Punks running the cabanas at mp resorts two years ago are now in charge of hiring other punks and punketts to ruin science policy, akin to book burning, for example, at the federal level.
The Middlebury college students who disrupted Murray’s appearance at their college were wrong to do so.
They should have permitted him to be wrong in public.
Interestingly, Murray was a Peace Corps volunteer in Thailand, as I was, in the Philippines.
He stayed in-country to work for the U.S.intelligence apparatus in counter insurgency.
In the Philippines, we volunteers were warned that Filipinos in some parts of the country held us in contempt because they suspected we might be CIA, or such. We also knew who in USAID were suspected of being more than “aid specialists”, if you know what I mean, and to keep our distance, because you might be placing yourself in danger with your Filipino counterparts and other “more serious” fucking people.
Murray broke that unwritten rule.
I read “The Bell Curve” twice back when it appeared.
It’s written better than “Mein Kampf” and “Atlas Shrugged”, both of which would have been highly improved with lots of graphs, I’ll give it that.
Odd that 25 years later, we’ve seen a black President whose intelligence resided somewhere near the far right-hand high intelligence side of the curve and, in nearly violent reaction, we now have a President whose very thumbs reside at the far bottom of the left-hand nary a brain cell available side.
I think the Laffer Curve is the more relevant to Murray’s agenda.
That was a brilliant post, Count, as per usual.
Not to quibble too much, Count, but Marilynne Robinson has been all over the place. She was born in Idaho, and now resides in Iowa, but has had a whole lot going on in between. Not at all like Harper Lee, except as an esteemed writer.
That was a brilliant post, Count, as per usual.
Not to quibble too much, Count, but Marilynne Robinson has been all over the place. She was born in Idaho, and now resides in Iowa, but has had a whole lot going on in between. Not at all like Harper Lee, except as an esteemed writer.
and, another fine meme that needs to be drowned in a bathtub.
as it were.
if people who aren’t like me start shooting at people like me, people like me re gonna buy guns and shoot back.
man bag or no.
if we don’t have a lot of guns it’s because we aren’t interested in them and don’t need them.
it’s not in anyone’s interest to change that.
and not for nothing, but if there is anything on god’s green earth that is funnier in the “point and laugh” sense than megan “pink himalayan salt” “born and raised on the upper west side” mcardle poking fun at “twee cosmopolitan elites”, i can’t think of what it is.
whenever she thinks, she weakens the nation.
and, another fine meme that needs to be drowned in a bathtub.
as it were.
if people who aren’t like me start shooting at people like me, people like me re gonna buy guns and shoot back.
man bag or no.
if we don’t have a lot of guns it’s because we aren’t interested in them and don’t need them.
it’s not in anyone’s interest to change that.
and not for nothing, but if there is anything on god’s green earth that is funnier in the “point and laugh” sense than megan “pink himalayan salt” “born and raised on the upper west side” mcardle poking fun at “twee cosmopolitan elites”, i can’t think of what it is.
whenever she thinks, she weakens the nation.
whenever she thinks, she weakens the nation.
Just because it deserves repeating. 😉
whenever she thinks, she weakens the nation.
Just because it deserves repeating. 😉
The reasoning by which the president held Democrats responsible for a policy announced and followed by his own administration was unclear…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/27/ivanka-trump-tweets-photo-backlash-border-separation-policy
The reasoning by which the president held Democrats responsible for a policy announced and followed by his own administration was unclear…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/27/ivanka-trump-tweets-photo-backlash-border-separation-policy
Yes, Robinson was all over the place, but most of it in flyover country. 😉
Yes, Robinson was all over the place, but most of it in flyover country. 😉
My outrage of today is this; who decided to take this guys early release to an appeals court? Let’s fire that person.
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/he-heads-back-prison-nashville-man-says-goodbye-new-life-he-hoped-build#stream/0
My outrage of today is this; who decided to take this guys early release to an appeals court? Let’s fire that person.
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post/he-heads-back-prison-nashville-man-says-goodbye-new-life-he-hoped-build#stream/0
The Judge requested that the US Attorney reconsider the government’s position on resentencing.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wpln/files/201801/judge_trauger_dec_29.pdf
The US Attorney declined to do so.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wpln/files/201801/cochran_filing_jan_31.pdf
The US Attorney in question is Donald Q Cochran, appointed by Trump to “Make America Safe Again”.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/president-donald-j-trump-announces-second-wave-united-states-attorney-candidate-nominations/
Let’s fire Trump.
The Judge requested that the US Attorney reconsider the government’s position on resentencing.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wpln/files/201801/judge_trauger_dec_29.pdf
The US Attorney declined to do so.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wpln/files/201801/cochran_filing_jan_31.pdf
The US Attorney in question is Donald Q Cochran, appointed by Trump to “Make America Safe Again”.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/president-donald-j-trump-announces-second-wave-united-states-attorney-candidate-nominations/
Let’s fire Trump.
see the little children
wrapped like baked potatoes
in silver mylar
on the grey concrete floor
of the detention facility
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/politics/immigration/2014/06/18/first-glimpse-of-immigrant-children-at-holding-facility/10808687/
MAGA
see the little children
wrapped like baked potatoes
in silver mylar
on the grey concrete floor
of the detention facility
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/politics/immigration/2014/06/18/first-glimpse-of-immigrant-children-at-holding-facility/10808687/
MAGA
(adding. yes, that’s old. do you think we’ve improved?)
(adding. yes, that’s old. do you think we’ve improved?)
These were unaccompanied minors that showed up at the border. What happened next? I have no context for how well or poorly they were being treated.
But they don’t look mistreated.
These were unaccompanied minors that showed up at the border. What happened next? I have no context for how well or poorly they were being treated.
But they don’t look mistreated.
About the Count’s recent, a prof of mine at USM wrote an essay in the 70’s, published in Southern Quarterly, pointing out that of all the states in the US, the only one that could rival Mississippi in terms of literary output was New York. He pointed to the triumvirate of Faulkner, Williams and Welty, and then listed a large number of other writers of note. (Being the 70’s, I don’t know if Richard Wright and Alice Walker were included, but Walker Percy was and perhaps Willie Morris and Shelby Foote. I have a sinking suspicion there were no female authors.)
He connected this to the observation that there were no Mississippi poets of any standing (I don’t know if the situation has changed) and suggested that the ability to tell a long winded story was a particular Mississippi trait, and it worked to the detriment of poetry writing.
The Count’s post brought it to mind, though I can’t find it online anywhere. I’m sure I’d be disappointed by it, but the question of what places help people write is an interesting one.
About the Count’s recent, a prof of mine at USM wrote an essay in the 70’s, published in Southern Quarterly, pointing out that of all the states in the US, the only one that could rival Mississippi in terms of literary output was New York. He pointed to the triumvirate of Faulkner, Williams and Welty, and then listed a large number of other writers of note. (Being the 70’s, I don’t know if Richard Wright and Alice Walker were included, but Walker Percy was and perhaps Willie Morris and Shelby Foote. I have a sinking suspicion there were no female authors.)
He connected this to the observation that there were no Mississippi poets of any standing (I don’t know if the situation has changed) and suggested that the ability to tell a long winded story was a particular Mississippi trait, and it worked to the detriment of poetry writing.
The Count’s post brought it to mind, though I can’t find it online anywhere. I’m sure I’d be disappointed by it, but the question of what places help people write is an interesting one.
But they don’t look mistreated.
They’ve been separated from their parents, in a foreign country, and are being held in chain link fenced pens.
It’s true, nobody is beating them with sticks.
WTF dude.
There is no need to treat these people this way. They intend no harm, they just want to try to make better lives for themselves.
It’s completely legitimate to tell them they can’t enter the country, and that they have to go home.
It’s completely fucked up to treat them like dangerous animals. It’s morally dangerous to *us* as a nation and as a people. We damage ourselves by treating other people this way.
Would you want people you care about to be treated this way, for something that is the legal equivalent of a moving violation?
No?
Then don’t wave it away when it’s done to other people.
This kind of crap is the way that Trump and his crew are damaging the nation. Exactly this. The Russian thing, whatever, I’m happy to let Mueller run it to ground, and it will land where it lands. The self-dealing and real estate side deals, likewise.
It’s this kind of bullshit – we can treat other people like crap, because they are Not Us – is toxic. We indulge in it at our own peril.
We should not be taking people’s kids away from them and keeping them in fucking pens, because they tried to enter the country. It’s wrong.
But they don’t look mistreated.
They’ve been separated from their parents, in a foreign country, and are being held in chain link fenced pens.
It’s true, nobody is beating them with sticks.
WTF dude.
There is no need to treat these people this way. They intend no harm, they just want to try to make better lives for themselves.
It’s completely legitimate to tell them they can’t enter the country, and that they have to go home.
It’s completely fucked up to treat them like dangerous animals. It’s morally dangerous to *us* as a nation and as a people. We damage ourselves by treating other people this way.
Would you want people you care about to be treated this way, for something that is the legal equivalent of a moving violation?
No?
Then don’t wave it away when it’s done to other people.
This kind of crap is the way that Trump and his crew are damaging the nation. Exactly this. The Russian thing, whatever, I’m happy to let Mueller run it to ground, and it will land where it lands. The self-dealing and real estate side deals, likewise.
It’s this kind of bullshit – we can treat other people like crap, because they are Not Us – is toxic. We indulge in it at our own peril.
We should not be taking people’s kids away from them and keeping them in fucking pens, because they tried to enter the country. It’s wrong.
All the rest of what you said means nothing russell, the article was about the 47000 unaccompanied, meaning without parents, minors that have shown up at the border. Since Oct 1st of whatever year.
So no, they weren’t the 700 that had been separated from their parents since October of last year.
This is becoming Facebook.
All the rest of what you said means nothing russell, the article was about the 47000 unaccompanied, meaning without parents, minors that have shown up at the border. Since Oct 1st of whatever year.
So no, they weren’t the 700 that had been separated from their parents since October of last year.
This is becoming Facebook.
So, we’ve been keeping 47,000 kids in chain link fenced pens since last October, and that’s better?
Will Bunch breaks it down. h/t Atrios.
All the rest of what I said means nothing.
Also, too, the Trumps are crooks. All of them.
So, we’ve been keeping 47,000 kids in chain link fenced pens since last October, and that’s better?
Will Bunch breaks it down. h/t Atrios.
All the rest of what I said means nothing.
Also, too, the Trumps are crooks. All of them.
All the rest of what you said means nothing russell
Essence of Marty.
Because russell was talking about a different set of people, I guess. it’s okay to cage them like animals and treat them like dangerous criminals.
Kids.
All the rest of what you said means nothing russell
Essence of Marty.
Because russell was talking about a different set of people, I guess. it’s okay to cage them like animals and treat them like dangerous criminals.
Kids.
per lj’s at 9:19 —
Speaking of long stories, the immigration pictures and stories make me wonder if a new Dickens will come along to chronicle the degeneracies of our age. (Maybe this is because I’m reading Little Dorrit, partially set in a debtor’s prison.)
Speaking of long and short forms in general, and just for the pleasure of contemplating it again: I remember someone once saying that most writers make short stories out of the leavings of their novels, whereas the Irish make novels out of the leavings of their short stories.
I love novels; short stories and poetry not so much. But Irish short stories are something else again.
per lj’s at 9:19 —
Speaking of long stories, the immigration pictures and stories make me wonder if a new Dickens will come along to chronicle the degeneracies of our age. (Maybe this is because I’m reading Little Dorrit, partially set in a debtor’s prison.)
Speaking of long and short forms in general, and just for the pleasure of contemplating it again: I remember someone once saying that most writers make short stories out of the leavings of their novels, whereas the Irish make novels out of the leavings of their short stories.
I love novels; short stories and poetry not so much. But Irish short stories are something else again.
Essence of Marty.
no shit.
and it puzzles him why folks might take offense.
Essence of Marty.
no shit.
and it puzzles him why folks might take offense.
The article bore no relation to what we were talking about. It was from 2014, it was a temporary holding facility, no there weren’t 47000 kids there, they had processed 47000 kids through there and my question was, once they were fed, clothed and processed what happened next?
I suppose I could jump up and down about how bad Obama was in 2014 but no, I just asked what happened next because I figure every human involved is trying their best to treat these kids as best they can.
The article bore no relation to what we were talking about. It was from 2014, it was a temporary holding facility, no there weren’t 47000 kids there, they had processed 47000 kids through there and my question was, once they were fed, clothed and processed what happened next?
I suppose I could jump up and down about how bad Obama was in 2014 but no, I just asked what happened next because I figure every human involved is trying their best to treat these kids as best they can.
“This is becoming Facebook”
The market cap of Facebook is a bit north of $541 billion dollars, more than half of that accrued since mp announced his candidacy to head up the Politburo and while Facebook itself was used as a platform by agents of foreign governments working closely with American traitors to steal an American Presidential election.
Kind of a bizarro world reverse fulfillment of Senator McCarthy’s goal of running the “queers and the reds” out of the State Department.
Anyhow, so when do we take Obsidian Wings public and get a piece of this action? I’ve been toiling away in this cubicle for something south of minimum wage for 15 years or so and I’d like to cash in.
Adam Silverman at Balloon Juice goes all “twee” on Megan McArdle, mincing like Sherman’s troops across her granite counter tops, burning her crops, seizing her livestock, liberating her “help”, taking her children into custody, and running her into the sea of her wave-making indoor jacuzzi.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2018/05/27/megan-mcardle-knows-absolutely-nothing-about-any-form-of-war-and-wouldnt-even-if-a-member-of-the-military-bit-her/
“This is becoming Facebook”
The market cap of Facebook is a bit north of $541 billion dollars, more than half of that accrued since mp announced his candidacy to head up the Politburo and while Facebook itself was used as a platform by agents of foreign governments working closely with American traitors to steal an American Presidential election.
Kind of a bizarro world reverse fulfillment of Senator McCarthy’s goal of running the “queers and the reds” out of the State Department.
Anyhow, so when do we take Obsidian Wings public and get a piece of this action? I’ve been toiling away in this cubicle for something south of minimum wage for 15 years or so and I’d like to cash in.
Adam Silverman at Balloon Juice goes all “twee” on Megan McArdle, mincing like Sherman’s troops across her granite counter tops, burning her crops, seizing her livestock, liberating her “help”, taking her children into custody, and running her into the sea of her wave-making indoor jacuzzi.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2018/05/27/megan-mcardle-knows-absolutely-nothing-about-any-form-of-war-and-wouldnt-even-if-a-member-of-the-military-bit-her/
I can chew arugula and operate an automatic weapon at the same time.
I can chew arugula and operate an automatic weapon at the same time.
Unaccompanied minors are meant to stay in holding facilities – the pens – for no more than 72 hours. Then, they are handed over to HHS, who finds shelter placement for them.
From there, it depends.
I’m sure that in general everyone is trying to treat kids as best they can.
We are now separating children from their parents when *accompanied* minors arrive at the border. I don’t know where the kids go, presumably the drill is similar to what we did with the unaccompanied minors.
We have, apparently, lost almost 1500 of these kids. As in, nobody knows where the hell they are. Others, we know where they are, but their parents may be sent back to their country of origin without them.
I’m sure that many if not most people working directly with the kids at the border are doing their best to treat the kids in as humane a way as possible. And that kind of gets to my point.
The *policy* is inhumane. It is *intended* to be inhumane. It is intended to visit perhaps the most disturbing trauma on a family that can be visited upon them. In order to create a disincentive to folks trying to enter the country illegally.
People doing their best to implement a fundamentally inhumane policy in the most humane way possible is still going to create an inhumane result.
Kids are still going to be separated from their parents and sent off into some fucking bureaucratic rabbit hole. In which they may simply be lost, and/or from which their parents may or may not be able to recover them.
The fact that the people at the shelter are nice doesn’t really seem to mitigate that.
Nice people can do evil, harmful, fucked-up things. It may even bother them to do it, but they will still do it. Because it’s their job, or somebody told them it’s the right thing to do, or whatever.
When we get to a point where we have a million justifications for doing evil, harmful, fucked-up things to other people, sufficient to allow otherwise nice people to go ahead and do them anyway, we have a serious problem.
Justifications like, “well, that’s what the law says”.
We are instituting cruel policies, and justifying them with bullshit – literally, lies – and so all those nice people are taking people’s kids away from them.
At a certain point, it no longer matters what the law says. Some stuff is just fucking wrong. Hiding behind the law in those situations becomes an act of moral cowardice.
Our country is doing this, so we’re all complicit. No clean hands. That should piss you off. It pisses me off.
Unaccompanied minors are meant to stay in holding facilities – the pens – for no more than 72 hours. Then, they are handed over to HHS, who finds shelter placement for them.
From there, it depends.
I’m sure that in general everyone is trying to treat kids as best they can.
We are now separating children from their parents when *accompanied* minors arrive at the border. I don’t know where the kids go, presumably the drill is similar to what we did with the unaccompanied minors.
We have, apparently, lost almost 1500 of these kids. As in, nobody knows where the hell they are. Others, we know where they are, but their parents may be sent back to their country of origin without them.
I’m sure that many if not most people working directly with the kids at the border are doing their best to treat the kids in as humane a way as possible. And that kind of gets to my point.
The *policy* is inhumane. It is *intended* to be inhumane. It is intended to visit perhaps the most disturbing trauma on a family that can be visited upon them. In order to create a disincentive to folks trying to enter the country illegally.
People doing their best to implement a fundamentally inhumane policy in the most humane way possible is still going to create an inhumane result.
Kids are still going to be separated from their parents and sent off into some fucking bureaucratic rabbit hole. In which they may simply be lost, and/or from which their parents may or may not be able to recover them.
The fact that the people at the shelter are nice doesn’t really seem to mitigate that.
Nice people can do evil, harmful, fucked-up things. It may even bother them to do it, but they will still do it. Because it’s their job, or somebody told them it’s the right thing to do, or whatever.
When we get to a point where we have a million justifications for doing evil, harmful, fucked-up things to other people, sufficient to allow otherwise nice people to go ahead and do them anyway, we have a serious problem.
Justifications like, “well, that’s what the law says”.
We are instituting cruel policies, and justifying them with bullshit – literally, lies – and so all those nice people are taking people’s kids away from them.
At a certain point, it no longer matters what the law says. Some stuff is just fucking wrong. Hiding behind the law in those situations becomes an act of moral cowardice.
Our country is doing this, so we’re all complicit. No clean hands. That should piss you off. It pisses me off.
The article bore no relation to what we were talking about.
it shows the accommodations ICE provides.
go ahead and feel good about it.
The article bore no relation to what we were talking about.
it shows the accommodations ICE provides.
go ahead and feel good about it.
I can chew arugula and operate an automatic weapon at the same time.
My man-bag can hold many cartridges.
I prefer to carry around the crap I usually carry around. The world will be a better place if, in this case, I get my druthers.
I can chew arugula and operate an automatic weapon at the same time.
My man-bag can hold many cartridges.
I prefer to carry around the crap I usually carry around. The world will be a better place if, in this case, I get my druthers.
“how bad Obama was in 2014”
How bad was it, your Magnificence?
It was so bad he was called the Deporter-in-Chief:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/03/this-is-how-trumps-deportations-differ-from-obamas/?utm_term=.91c464ac5764
Not that anyone would have known that from reading Facebook. There, as presented by the Russophiliacs under every republican bed, he, along with Hillary Clinton (from the secrecy of her private server room), was bringing in, by Presidential decree, every rapist Pablo, every murderer Jose, and every terrorist Abdul to vote illegally and then decapitate Megan McArdle on CNN.
“how bad Obama was in 2014”
How bad was it, your Magnificence?
It was so bad he was called the Deporter-in-Chief:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/03/this-is-how-trumps-deportations-differ-from-obamas/?utm_term=.91c464ac5764
Not that anyone would have known that from reading Facebook. There, as presented by the Russophiliacs under every republican bed, he, along with Hillary Clinton (from the secrecy of her private server room), was bringing in, by Presidential decree, every rapist Pablo, every murderer Jose, and every terrorist Abdul to vote illegally and then decapitate Megan McArdle on CNN.
There is no need to treat these people this way. They intend no harm, they just want to try to make better lives for themselves.
It’s completely legitimate to tell them they can’t enter the country, and that they have to go home.
From a libertarian point of view, the first paragraph negates the second paragraph.
But what’s a government supposed to do when 10’s of thousands of minors cross the border? Let them scatter into the country to survive as best as they can? Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?
There is no need to treat these people this way. They intend no harm, they just want to try to make better lives for themselves.
It’s completely legitimate to tell them they can’t enter the country, and that they have to go home.
From a libertarian point of view, the first paragraph negates the second paragraph.
But what’s a government supposed to do when 10’s of thousands of minors cross the border? Let them scatter into the country to survive as best as they can? Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?
Would you want people you care about to be treated this way, for something that is the legal equivalent of a moving violation?
Russell, just to be clear, it is not the legal equivalent of a moving violation. It is the equivalent of a parking violation. (Or maybe a fix-it ticket.)
And for good reason. With a moving violation, you put others at risk. With a parking violation, not noticeably.
Would you want people you care about to be treated this way, for something that is the legal equivalent of a moving violation?
Russell, just to be clear, it is not the legal equivalent of a moving violation. It is the equivalent of a parking violation. (Or maybe a fix-it ticket.)
And for good reason. With a moving violation, you put others at risk. With a parking violation, not noticeably.
From a libertarian point of view, the first paragraph negates the second paragraph.
Just another reason I’m not a libertarian.
But what’s a government supposed to do when 10’s of thousands of minors cross the border? Let them scatter into the country to survive as best as they can? Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?
Take care of them until we can figure out what to do with them.
Chain-link-fenced pens seems… a little primitive. The kids with their hands cuffed behind their backs also seemed a little… unnecessary.
I understand that a lot of kids showed up, unexpectedly, in a short-ish period of time. But treating them like dogs at the pound is the best we could do?
In any case, as Marty notes, separating accompanied minors from their parents is a whole other kettle of fish.
From a libertarian point of view, the first paragraph negates the second paragraph.
Just another reason I’m not a libertarian.
But what’s a government supposed to do when 10’s of thousands of minors cross the border? Let them scatter into the country to survive as best as they can? Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?
Take care of them until we can figure out what to do with them.
Chain-link-fenced pens seems… a little primitive. The kids with their hands cuffed behind their backs also seemed a little… unnecessary.
I understand that a lot of kids showed up, unexpectedly, in a short-ish period of time. But treating them like dogs at the pound is the best we could do?
In any case, as Marty notes, separating accompanied minors from their parents is a whole other kettle of fish.
“Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?”
All very well, under the circumstances.
But the last government, from the White House, ordered human children to be detained, clothed, and fed, until they can be sorted out in some fashion.
The current government, from the White House, which will be overthrown, ordered rapists, animals, and terrorists to be detained, clothed, and fed.
In that context and under those radically different terms, we have every reason to wonder what the INS and ICE border agent unions, which illegally endorsed mp so they could be unleashed,, THINK their jobs are, and what the treatment and “sorting out” process is likely to entail.
Will it be like Philip Roth as a kid being shipped off by his parents to a Catskills resort summer camp to wait tables, or will it be like a free train ride for Primo Levi to a different sort of camp in central Poland in 1943?
Enquiring minds, but surely not the National Enquirer, might well arsk.
“Or detain, clothe and feed them until they can be sorted out in some fashion?”
All very well, under the circumstances.
But the last government, from the White House, ordered human children to be detained, clothed, and fed, until they can be sorted out in some fashion.
The current government, from the White House, which will be overthrown, ordered rapists, animals, and terrorists to be detained, clothed, and fed.
In that context and under those radically different terms, we have every reason to wonder what the INS and ICE border agent unions, which illegally endorsed mp so they could be unleashed,, THINK their jobs are, and what the treatment and “sorting out” process is likely to entail.
Will it be like Philip Roth as a kid being shipped off by his parents to a Catskills resort summer camp to wait tables, or will it be like a free train ride for Primo Levi to a different sort of camp in central Poland in 1943?
Enquiring minds, but surely not the National Enquirer, might well arsk.
In the article you linked to the 1500 kids are likely missing because the family doesn’t want to interact with the government, the family they were aced with ehich is the first option.
I got the impression that the sharp uptick in unaccompanied minors was the reason for the state of facilities, though I’m not certain of the norm.
I also read, in that article, that the law has been in place for a few decades.
I wrote a bunch more paragraphs and deleted them.
The essence of Marty is he cares deeply that people in Guatemala and Mexico live such difficult lives they are willing to risk jail, and death, to try and get here. Harder is that knowing they won’t likely get in they send their kids alone.
I would like a huge focus on fixing that. In many ways we pretend the Western hemisphere is war free, yet these people are refugees from both physical and economic wars, and dictators.
I am not immune to some level of outrage that for all of my life we have watched much of Central and South America repeatedly fall prey to corrupt leaders that have looted their countries and impoverished their people, while we do the same by giving the 90% just enough to be better off than most aces they could go.
Our political class has never wanted to solve the problem of poverty here, much less in other places, none of our political class. Cheap labor, limited competition, military superiority, and who have all ayed a factor in our unwillingness to help the rest of the world thrive.
Here’s the catch, none of that is unique to us. Every major political entity wants the same things, Europe, China, Russia, India and as they develop other countries.
So to some extent the focus on protecting our interests while helping those other nations becomes a huge balancing act weighted against the poorest countries.
How do we perceive we are different? We have no idea any more. We fight over a few hundred people at our border when doing nothing to help them at home. We have long retreated from saying any meaningful role in our hemisphere while chasing demons around the world.
I care about those people getting separated from their kids, I also care that we have some semblance of border security and those are competing priorities. Out of time.
In the article you linked to the 1500 kids are likely missing because the family doesn’t want to interact with the government, the family they were aced with ehich is the first option.
I got the impression that the sharp uptick in unaccompanied minors was the reason for the state of facilities, though I’m not certain of the norm.
I also read, in that article, that the law has been in place for a few decades.
I wrote a bunch more paragraphs and deleted them.
The essence of Marty is he cares deeply that people in Guatemala and Mexico live such difficult lives they are willing to risk jail, and death, to try and get here. Harder is that knowing they won’t likely get in they send their kids alone.
I would like a huge focus on fixing that. In many ways we pretend the Western hemisphere is war free, yet these people are refugees from both physical and economic wars, and dictators.
I am not immune to some level of outrage that for all of my life we have watched much of Central and South America repeatedly fall prey to corrupt leaders that have looted their countries and impoverished their people, while we do the same by giving the 90% just enough to be better off than most aces they could go.
Our political class has never wanted to solve the problem of poverty here, much less in other places, none of our political class. Cheap labor, limited competition, military superiority, and who have all ayed a factor in our unwillingness to help the rest of the world thrive.
Here’s the catch, none of that is unique to us. Every major political entity wants the same things, Europe, China, Russia, India and as they develop other countries.
So to some extent the focus on protecting our interests while helping those other nations becomes a huge balancing act weighted against the poorest countries.
How do we perceive we are different? We have no idea any more. We fight over a few hundred people at our border when doing nothing to help them at home. We have long retreated from saying any meaningful role in our hemisphere while chasing demons around the world.
I care about those people getting separated from their kids, I also care that we have some semblance of border security and those are competing priorities. Out of time.
i like this Marty.
i like this Marty.
“The essence of Marty is he cares deeply that people in Guatemala and Mexico live such difficult lives they are willing to risk jail, and death, to try and get here. Harder is that knowing they won’t likely get in they send their kids alone.
I would like a huge focus on fixing that. In many ways we pretend the Western hemisphere is war free, yet these people are refugees from both physical and economic wars, and dictators.
I am not immune to some level of outrage that for all of my life we have watched much of Central and South America repeatedly fall prey to corrupt leaders that have looted their countries and impoverished their people, while we do the same by giving the 90% just enough to be better off than most aces they could go.’
I liked OBWI better in the old days when the hard-ass redstatey conservatives/republicans we argued with weren’t bleeding-heart liberals. 😉
This is like last week when McKinney waded in to take issue with the wealth limitation/taxes banter and then ended up proposing a multi-bracketed marginal tax scheme (albeit with all extra revenue raised going to deficit reduction) …. maybe I dreamt that … which made me think, with conservatives like that, who needs FDR?
“The essence of Marty is he cares deeply that people in Guatemala and Mexico live such difficult lives they are willing to risk jail, and death, to try and get here. Harder is that knowing they won’t likely get in they send their kids alone.
I would like a huge focus on fixing that. In many ways we pretend the Western hemisphere is war free, yet these people are refugees from both physical and economic wars, and dictators.
I am not immune to some level of outrage that for all of my life we have watched much of Central and South America repeatedly fall prey to corrupt leaders that have looted their countries and impoverished their people, while we do the same by giving the 90% just enough to be better off than most aces they could go.’
I liked OBWI better in the old days when the hard-ass redstatey conservatives/republicans we argued with weren’t bleeding-heart liberals. 😉
This is like last week when McKinney waded in to take issue with the wealth limitation/taxes banter and then ended up proposing a multi-bracketed marginal tax scheme (albeit with all extra revenue raised going to deficit reduction) …. maybe I dreamt that … which made me think, with conservatives like that, who needs FDR?
Marty is right that the treatment of genuinely unaccompanied minors stopped at the border is a different issue from the deeply evil Trump-Sessions policy of separating parents from their children in order to prosecute the parents. This policy openly uses separation as a deterrent.
The US president has executive power to do much good or much evil. And Trump is on the side of evil. Anyone who thinks he’s good in parts has to own that.
Marty is right that the treatment of genuinely unaccompanied minors stopped at the border is a different issue from the deeply evil Trump-Sessions policy of separating parents from their children in order to prosecute the parents. This policy openly uses separation as a deterrent.
The US president has executive power to do much good or much evil. And Trump is on the side of evil. Anyone who thinks he’s good in parts has to own that.
The NRA’s new president is rock-ribbed Republican criminal Oliver North, the Sainted Reagan’s henchman who did his best to foment war in Central America.
Marty has plenty of raw material for outrage. But you can always count on him to sift it carefully so that “(Republican) policies” come shining through.
–TP
The NRA’s new president is rock-ribbed Republican criminal Oliver North, the Sainted Reagan’s henchman who did his best to foment war in Central America.
Marty has plenty of raw material for outrage. But you can always count on him to sift it carefully so that “(Republican) policies” come shining through.
–TP
In the article you linked to the 1500 kids are likely missing because the family doesn’t want to interact with the government, the family they were aced with ehich is the first option.
Marty is correct on this one, too, see here.
Which works for me.
Some interesting detail in the Twitter feed. Avoid the comments if you don’t want to ruin your day.
In the article you linked to the 1500 kids are likely missing because the family doesn’t want to interact with the government, the family they were aced with ehich is the first option.
Marty is correct on this one, too, see here.
Which works for me.
Some interesting detail in the Twitter feed. Avoid the comments if you don’t want to ruin your day.
more on the 1500
https://thinkprogress.org/fact-check-1500-missing-immigrant-children-c6906c765581/
more on the 1500
https://thinkprogress.org/fact-check-1500-missing-immigrant-children-c6906c765581/
Just got back, thanks cleek, russell. I really don’t need your name calling, count, liberal bah.
Just got back, thanks cleek, russell. I really don’t need your name calling, count, liberal bah.
This is the thing:
We need to help the folks in Central America who are fleeing violence. Let’s find a way to do that immediately, so nobody who comes here to protect their children from death threats, is turned away. We have a lot of experience with this, and it isn’t hard. Also, we need them.
Win, win.
This is the thing:
We need to help the folks in Central America who are fleeing violence. Let’s find a way to do that immediately, so nobody who comes here to protect their children from death threats, is turned away. We have a lot of experience with this, and it isn’t hard. Also, we need them.
Win, win.
We need to help the folks in Central America who are fleeing violence.
Right?
Asylum.
We need to help the folks in Central America who are fleeing violence.
Right?
Asylum.
Asylum.
Yep. For Syrians too. Also Special Immigrant Juvenile Status. Also, DACA.
Not hard to do the right thing immediately.
There are next steps, but for now this.
Asylum.
Yep. For Syrians too. Also Special Immigrant Juvenile Status. Also, DACA.
Not hard to do the right thing immediately.
There are next steps, but for now this.
Let’s find a way to do that immediately,
Ending the war on drugs would make a big difference. Otherwise, it’s pretty hopeless.
Let’s find a way to do that immediately,
Ending the war on drugs would make a big difference. Otherwise, it’s pretty hopeless.
Ending the war on drugs would make a big difference. Otherwise, it’s pretty hopeless.
I’m totally in favor of ending the war on drugs. Not sure that’s the problem here.
But, yes, I’m for ending the “war on drugs”.
Ending the war on drugs would make a big difference. Otherwise, it’s pretty hopeless.
I’m totally in favor of ending the war on drugs. Not sure that’s the problem here.
But, yes, I’m for ending the “war on drugs”.
But speaking of “war on” whatever:
I’m in favor of some “war on”. Against some.
When we plan a war on something, we need to recognize that there will be refugees. If we’re not willing to accept and accommodate refugees, we’re not ready for the “war on”.
But speaking of “war on” whatever:
I’m in favor of some “war on”. Against some.
When we plan a war on something, we need to recognize that there will be refugees. If we’re not willing to accept and accommodate refugees, we’re not ready for the “war on”.
Why can’t you have a “war on” without accepting any refugees???
Aren’t these things costless? At least if you’re a chickenhawk — which seem to be rather thick on the ground in this administration.
Why can’t you have a “war on” without accepting any refugees???
Aren’t these things costless? At least if you’re a chickenhawk — which seem to be rather thick on the ground in this administration.
The situation in Central and South America appears to be sufficiently dire that people are willing to leave home at risk of their own lives in order to try to get away. Or, send their children away.
We have our own issues, but we can’t find a place for these people?
Part of the problem is that people like Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions (and others) have been selling the story that the folks trying to enter the country are overwhelmingly criminal. Rapists, murderers, gang members. Which is a lie.
Another part of the problem is that the people trying to enter the country are mostly brown.
So, they are screwed.
We have some responsibility for the conditions in Central and South America (like, how did they “fall prey” to those corrupt leaders for all those years?). But we also can’t control everything that happens there.
What we do have control over is how we respond to people who show up at our doorstep, asking for help.
The situation in Central and South America appears to be sufficiently dire that people are willing to leave home at risk of their own lives in order to try to get away. Or, send their children away.
We have our own issues, but we can’t find a place for these people?
Part of the problem is that people like Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions (and others) have been selling the story that the folks trying to enter the country are overwhelmingly criminal. Rapists, murderers, gang members. Which is a lie.
Another part of the problem is that the people trying to enter the country are mostly brown.
So, they are screwed.
We have some responsibility for the conditions in Central and South America (like, how did they “fall prey” to those corrupt leaders for all those years?). But we also can’t control everything that happens there.
What we do have control over is how we respond to people who show up at our doorstep, asking for help.
people who show up at our doorstep, asking for help.
which, again, is not a crime. it’s expected. we have a (sub-optimal) system for dealing with such people.
we should treat them better.
people who show up at our doorstep, asking for help.
which, again, is not a crime. it’s expected. we have a (sub-optimal) system for dealing with such people.
we should treat them better.
When we plan a war on something, we need to recognize that there will be refugees. If we’re not willing to accept and accommodate refugees, we’re not ready for the “war on”.
Here’s a thought: stop fighting senseless (proxy-) wars and there will be less refugees. Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
Not that the US takes in any significant amount of refugees from the ME, the region it has caused the most damage in.
When we plan a war on something, we need to recognize that there will be refugees. If we’re not willing to accept and accommodate refugees, we’re not ready for the “war on”.
Here’s a thought: stop fighting senseless (proxy-) wars and there will be less refugees. Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
Not that the US takes in any significant amount of refugees from the ME, the region it has caused the most damage in.
Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
I agree, which is why I’m glad no one suggested such a thing.
Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
I agree, which is why I’m glad no one suggested such a thing.
Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
It sounds more like we are talking about designing a refugee policy which recognizes that we are, on the evidence, going to end up fighting wars. Which seems like a simple matter of recognizing reality.
Now if we want to talk about ceasing to fight so many, often unnecessary, wars? That fine . . . but it really is a whole different discussion.
Designing a refugee policy with the aim to enable “us” to fight wars with a good conscience seems, well, really wrong.
It sounds more like we are talking about designing a refugee policy which recognizes that we are, on the evidence, going to end up fighting wars. Which seems like a simple matter of recognizing reality.
Now if we want to talk about ceasing to fight so many, often unnecessary, wars? That fine . . . but it really is a whole different discussion.
Having a humane refugee policy should be a necessary condition before starting or getting into a war. That doesn’t make it sufficient.
Having a humane refugee policy should be a necessary condition before starting or getting into a war. That doesn’t make it sufficient.
The Count: This is like last week when McKinney waded in to take issue with the wealth limitation/taxes banter and then ended up proposing a multi-bracketed marginal tax scheme (albeit with all extra revenue raised going to deficit reduction) …. maybe I dreamt that … which made me think, with conservatives like that, who needs FDR?
Real life intervened before I could comment on McKinney’s program as he laid it out in the “Enough” thread. (Feels like a time warp: that thread comes after this one.) Anyway, before scuttling off to his real life, McKinney regaled us with:
The bolding is mine, just to remind us that pain is a feature, not a bug, of almost every Republican proposal.
Anyway, McKinney is, like many of us, 60-ish. So his “out years”, like ours, are rapidly becoming purely theoretical. The notion that it is we who must (or can) dictate the terms of Social Security “in the out years” is arrogance and delusion. If I were 30, I’d tell McKinney (and Pete Peterson, Chester Bowles, Alan Simpson — old coots all) to shove it. Today’s 30-year-olds will be retiring around about the time of our funerals. How they choose to divvy up the wealth they create in their lifetimes, between private opulence and Social Security, should be (and will be) up to them.
Capping all federal spending except Medicare/Medicaid at current levels is a catchy slogan, not a well-defined proposal. If it means restricting total federal spending to this year’s level (in nominal dollars? adjusting for inflation?) it might have some merit: it allows for increased spending on underfunded priorities (e.g. IRS) as long as overfunding of others (e.g. ICE) gets cut back. If it means locking in the current misallocations by capping individual programs, it’s merely a ploy to perpetuate He, Trump’s “(Republican)” policies. And we’d better get it straight whether Social Security is “federal spending” in this context.
As for introducing more brackets with higher marginal rates at the top, hooray! It’s long past time to recognize that it is nuts to have the same “top marginal rate” on a hardworking lawyer like McKinney and a hardworking propagandist like Sean Hannity who gets paid twenty times as much. Not clear what “only for debt reduction” means, though. Presumably it’s just a different way of saying “cap federal spending”. Anyway, even after “the budget was balanced”, it would still be nuts to have a top bracket at the McKinney level instead of the Hannity level.
Almost forgot: imposing a $1/gal tax on the gasoline that janitors, lawyers, and propaganda magnates all need to commute to work is just another form of regressive taxation if the proceeds are strictly “dedicated to deficit reduction”.
On the cap gains thing: “very favorably” taxing long-term (5+ year) gains has certain predictable consequences. In theory, it “encourages investment”. In practice, and historically, it creates a strong incentive to make income look like cap gains by artful accounting. And BTW, the flip side of “encouraging investment” is “discouraging consumption”, which some people keep forgetting is necessary to make real investment worthwhile. A customer class with money to spend is what an investor class needs; “favorable” tax rates are lagniappe.
Also, BTW: for every investment-seeking entrepreneur like Michael Dell with his mail-order PCs, there is surely an entrepreneur like Ralph Kramden with his glow-in-the-dark wallpaper. If it were possible to know ahead of time which investment will yield cap gains and which one capital losses, there would be little justification for “very favorable” taxation of the gains. Since it isn’t, we should note that long-term capital losses get written off at the same tax rate as any gains. To a “diversified” investor, “very favorable” can be a two-edged sword.
A question worth asking is how “very favorable” taxation of cap gains is meant to play with inheritance of unrealized (and thus untaxed) capital appreciation.
I am not remotely inclined to ask “who needs FDR?”, but I’m always ready to entertain any clarifications or rebuttals McKinney cares to offer next time his real life permits.
–TP
The Count: This is like last week when McKinney waded in to take issue with the wealth limitation/taxes banter and then ended up proposing a multi-bracketed marginal tax scheme (albeit with all extra revenue raised going to deficit reduction) …. maybe I dreamt that … which made me think, with conservatives like that, who needs FDR?
Real life intervened before I could comment on McKinney’s program as he laid it out in the “Enough” thread. (Feels like a time warp: that thread comes after this one.) Anyway, before scuttling off to his real life, McKinney regaled us with:
The bolding is mine, just to remind us that pain is a feature, not a bug, of almost every Republican proposal.
Anyway, McKinney is, like many of us, 60-ish. So his “out years”, like ours, are rapidly becoming purely theoretical. The notion that it is we who must (or can) dictate the terms of Social Security “in the out years” is arrogance and delusion. If I were 30, I’d tell McKinney (and Pete Peterson, Chester Bowles, Alan Simpson — old coots all) to shove it. Today’s 30-year-olds will be retiring around about the time of our funerals. How they choose to divvy up the wealth they create in their lifetimes, between private opulence and Social Security, should be (and will be) up to them.
Capping all federal spending except Medicare/Medicaid at current levels is a catchy slogan, not a well-defined proposal. If it means restricting total federal spending to this year’s level (in nominal dollars? adjusting for inflation?) it might have some merit: it allows for increased spending on underfunded priorities (e.g. IRS) as long as overfunding of others (e.g. ICE) gets cut back. If it means locking in the current misallocations by capping individual programs, it’s merely a ploy to perpetuate He, Trump’s “(Republican)” policies. And we’d better get it straight whether Social Security is “federal spending” in this context.
As for introducing more brackets with higher marginal rates at the top, hooray! It’s long past time to recognize that it is nuts to have the same “top marginal rate” on a hardworking lawyer like McKinney and a hardworking propagandist like Sean Hannity who gets paid twenty times as much. Not clear what “only for debt reduction” means, though. Presumably it’s just a different way of saying “cap federal spending”. Anyway, even after “the budget was balanced”, it would still be nuts to have a top bracket at the McKinney level instead of the Hannity level.
Almost forgot: imposing a $1/gal tax on the gasoline that janitors, lawyers, and propaganda magnates all need to commute to work is just another form of regressive taxation if the proceeds are strictly “dedicated to deficit reduction”.
On the cap gains thing: “very favorably” taxing long-term (5+ year) gains has certain predictable consequences. In theory, it “encourages investment”. In practice, and historically, it creates a strong incentive to make income look like cap gains by artful accounting. And BTW, the flip side of “encouraging investment” is “discouraging consumption”, which some people keep forgetting is necessary to make real investment worthwhile. A customer class with money to spend is what an investor class needs; “favorable” tax rates are lagniappe.
Also, BTW: for every investment-seeking entrepreneur like Michael Dell with his mail-order PCs, there is surely an entrepreneur like Ralph Kramden with his glow-in-the-dark wallpaper. If it were possible to know ahead of time which investment will yield cap gains and which one capital losses, there would be little justification for “very favorable” taxation of the gains. Since it isn’t, we should note that long-term capital losses get written off at the same tax rate as any gains. To a “diversified” investor, “very favorable” can be a two-edged sword.
A question worth asking is how “very favorable” taxation of cap gains is meant to play with inheritance of unrealized (and thus untaxed) capital appreciation.
I am not remotely inclined to ask “who needs FDR?”, but I’m always ready to entertain any clarifications or rebuttals McKinney cares to offer next time his real life permits.
–TP
Well said, Tony.
Well said, Tony.
bobby and Tony P. Two P’s in a pod.
bobby and Tony P. Two P’s in a pod.
pain will be inflicted
Everybody with earned income since about 1983 or 1984 has been paying into SS at a rate higher than outflows. To create a surplus, which would be spent down when the dreaded boomer retirement tsunami arrived.
So, now we’re spending it down, and folks scream because we’re spending faster than we’re taking in. Which is what was intended.
The money is held as federal debt. When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?
The answer is never.
Pay up America. We funded W’s wars and a generation of (R) tax cuts. The bill is due.
Where’s the money, Lebowski? Don’t make us geezers give you a swirly.
pain will be inflicted
Everybody with earned income since about 1983 or 1984 has been paying into SS at a rate higher than outflows. To create a surplus, which would be spent down when the dreaded boomer retirement tsunami arrived.
So, now we’re spending it down, and folks scream because we’re spending faster than we’re taking in. Which is what was intended.
The money is held as federal debt. When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?
The answer is never.
Pay up America. We funded W’s wars and a generation of (R) tax cuts. The bill is due.
Where’s the money, Lebowski? Don’t make us geezers give you a swirly.
Excellent Tony P!
“When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?”
Next Fall, because McKinney and Marty aside, the mp republican party are Comanche.
Excellent Tony P!
“When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?”
Next Fall, because McKinney and Marty aside, the mp republican party are Comanche.
The money is held as federal debt. When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?
Likely to be paid by printing money. So people will pay twice: payroll taxes and inflation tax.
The money is held as federal debt. When was the last time we reneged on federal debt?
Likely to be paid by printing money. So people will pay twice: payroll taxes and inflation tax.
Literally TRILLIONS of deficit spending since a socialist Dem both balanced the federal budget and got a blow-job, and where is the inflation?
I was promised inflation.
Why, it’s as if those Austrianoid econ theories from a century ago don’t actually work for a modern economy, or something.
Literally TRILLIONS of deficit spending since a socialist Dem both balanced the federal budget and got a blow-job, and where is the inflation?
I was promised inflation.
Why, it’s as if those Austrianoid econ theories from a century ago don’t actually work for a modern economy, or something.
why, it’s as if all the fears and screeching of the GOP w.r.t. monetary policy are empty threats designed to scare people into accepting their policies.
the Stupid Party is maybe not so stupid, at the top, in some ways.
why, it’s as if all the fears and screeching of the GOP w.r.t. monetary policy are empty threats designed to scare people into accepting their policies.
the Stupid Party is maybe not so stupid, at the top, in some ways.
A dollar in 1998 is worth $0.65 now.
A dollar in 1998 is worth $0.65 now.
Charles,
A Cambridge MA condo worth $30K in 1988 is worth $300K now. What’s your point?
Also, 1MB of storage in 1988 used to cost about what you can buy 1GB for now. Again, what’s your point?
–TP
Charles,
A Cambridge MA condo worth $30K in 1988 is worth $300K now. What’s your point?
Also, 1MB of storage in 1988 used to cost about what you can buy 1GB for now. Again, what’s your point?
–TP
A Cambridge MA condo worth $30K in 1988 is worth $300K now
where’s my wayback machine?
A Cambridge MA condo worth $30K in 1988 is worth $300K now
where’s my wayback machine?
where’s my wayback machine?
Yeah. That would be convenient for so many things!
where’s my wayback machine?
Yeah. That would be convenient for so many things!
Regardless of the change in prices, up or down, of individual items, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that over the last twenty years, 35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
Since technical innovation and growth in productivity has outstripped inflation, a lot of things have gotten cheaper. Both in dollars and the amount of labor needed to buy them. I’m about to replace the microwave oven I bought in 1983 for about $1,500 in today’s dollars. I can replace it with a more functional oven for about $150.
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit. And then you have to pay capital gains tax on what was really a loss.
Perhaps capital gains taxes should be tied to inflation.
Regardless of the change in prices, up or down, of individual items, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that over the last twenty years, 35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
Since technical innovation and growth in productivity has outstripped inflation, a lot of things have gotten cheaper. Both in dollars and the amount of labor needed to buy them. I’m about to replace the microwave oven I bought in 1983 for about $1,500 in today’s dollars. I can replace it with a more functional oven for about $150.
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit. And then you have to pay capital gains tax on what was really a loss.
Perhaps capital gains taxes should be tied to inflation.
35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
I have the image of a skeevy looking guy with a gas can and a texas credit card sneaking up to parked cars. (though most cars have anti siphon devices now so I’m dating myself) Still, I don’t think that image helps illuminate what’s going on…
35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
I have the image of a skeevy looking guy with a gas can and a texas credit card sneaking up to parked cars. (though most cars have anti siphon devices now so I’m dating myself) Still, I don’t think that image helps illuminate what’s going on…
35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
it’s the cost of hopes and dreams
35% of a dollar’s value got siphoned off somewhere.
it’s the cost of hopes and dreams
What’s the problem with an inflation rate of 1.5%? Moderate and controlled inflation is a good thing, it keeps money circulating.
Falling prices of imported manufactured goods have kept inflation well under control. In order for inflation to become a problem in the US, you’d have to do something spectacularly stupid. Like deliberately ramping up the deficit during a growth period at the same time as starting a trade war.
What’s the problem with an inflation rate of 1.5%? Moderate and controlled inflation is a good thing, it keeps money circulating.
Falling prices of imported manufactured goods have kept inflation well under control. In order for inflation to become a problem in the US, you’d have to do something spectacularly stupid. Like deliberately ramping up the deficit during a growth period at the same time as starting a trade war.
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit.
The justification for a favorable tax rate on capital gains is that the investor places his or her capital at risk, and the risk must be rewarded.
You need to choose investments that will provide a rate of return greater than the rate of inflation.
Also, too, the value of wage income is likewise subject to being undermined by inflation. Should earned income taxes also be adjusted for inflation?
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit.
The justification for a favorable tax rate on capital gains is that the investor places his or her capital at risk, and the risk must be rewarded.
You need to choose investments that will provide a rate of return greater than the rate of inflation.
Also, too, the value of wage income is likewise subject to being undermined by inflation. Should earned income taxes also be adjusted for inflation?
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit.
Hate to dog-pile on this, but somehow nation wealth and income keep concentrating in the hands of the people who hold far more in capital investments than everyone else. And somehow real per capita GDP continues to increase.
But how are these poor investors keeping up with inflation?
That doesn’t change the reality that you can easily end up with less money than you started with on a long-term investment even though you made a nice profit.
Hate to dog-pile on this, but somehow nation wealth and income keep concentrating in the hands of the people who hold far more in capital investments than everyone else. And somehow real per capita GDP continues to increase.
But how are these poor investors keeping up with inflation?
“You need to choose investments that will provide a rate of return greater than the rate of inflation.”
Actually, you need to choose investments, real estate or stock shares especially, that will INFLATE at a rate greater than the overall rate of inflation.
However, Wall Street and corporate America, when it comes to equity shares, have figured out, like the OPEC cartel and diamond cartels, and the Russian oil oligarchs keeping oil on the ground, that LIMITING the supply of shares when it is convenient, via stock buybacks, or the mere promise of stock buybacks, and rarely splitting their shares (am I the only one who has noticed or is willing to point out that nearly all corporate boards now emulate Warren Buffet’s distaste for splitting shares, which is why we now have so many shares trading in the mid-triple digits) is the prevailing ethos on Wall Street.
The housing industry, because of the severity of this last downturn, has been very shrewd this time around about keeping the new supply of inventory at a trickle compared to other recoveries, to stimulate housing inflation.
The rental industry now adds supply at rents higher than the prevailing rents in the surrounding areas, and neither private developers nor government will add low-income housing, because …. fuck-all.
This pulls up all other rents as well. It’s competitive supply side trickle-up economics.
Or “red in tooth and claw” and “animal spirits” as one Larry Kudlow has enthused for decades, one dainty pinky finger raised to indicate ferocious metaphor.
But not in the interest of lower prices for those who could use them. The price point is always higher.
MS-13 aren’t the only animals we’ve let into this country.
Now, if we really want to make MONEY itself scarce to increase its value, to the point of deflation, there won’t be ANY investments that themselves escape deflation as well.
If the cost of money rises, via higher interest rates, corporation will choose to issue more stock, what use to be called “watering their stock”, theoretically, to finance their operations, rather than relying on the bond market, and there go your inflated stock prices.
Financially, the part of the elephant we tell ourselves, via our bedtime stories, that we have a hold of, is probably not the part the smart money is moving their strong hands to at the moment.
What I love about so-called “business journalism” is that so-called business reporters, “advertisers” is more like it, can intone dark forebodings of inflation in economic data in one breath, and then with a quick swivel of the chair to camera two and the flash of their capped Burt Lancaster pearly chiclets, wax glorious over share prices, or housing prices, or oil prices rising dramatically to inflate the cost of those industries’ products.
There really is no “Truth” in the financial world.
The choice lies in which brand of bullshit you wanna take a position in for the time being.
“You need to choose investments that will provide a rate of return greater than the rate of inflation.”
Actually, you need to choose investments, real estate or stock shares especially, that will INFLATE at a rate greater than the overall rate of inflation.
However, Wall Street and corporate America, when it comes to equity shares, have figured out, like the OPEC cartel and diamond cartels, and the Russian oil oligarchs keeping oil on the ground, that LIMITING the supply of shares when it is convenient, via stock buybacks, or the mere promise of stock buybacks, and rarely splitting their shares (am I the only one who has noticed or is willing to point out that nearly all corporate boards now emulate Warren Buffet’s distaste for splitting shares, which is why we now have so many shares trading in the mid-triple digits) is the prevailing ethos on Wall Street.
The housing industry, because of the severity of this last downturn, has been very shrewd this time around about keeping the new supply of inventory at a trickle compared to other recoveries, to stimulate housing inflation.
The rental industry now adds supply at rents higher than the prevailing rents in the surrounding areas, and neither private developers nor government will add low-income housing, because …. fuck-all.
This pulls up all other rents as well. It’s competitive supply side trickle-up economics.
Or “red in tooth and claw” and “animal spirits” as one Larry Kudlow has enthused for decades, one dainty pinky finger raised to indicate ferocious metaphor.
But not in the interest of lower prices for those who could use them. The price point is always higher.
MS-13 aren’t the only animals we’ve let into this country.
Now, if we really want to make MONEY itself scarce to increase its value, to the point of deflation, there won’t be ANY investments that themselves escape deflation as well.
If the cost of money rises, via higher interest rates, corporation will choose to issue more stock, what use to be called “watering their stock”, theoretically, to finance their operations, rather than relying on the bond market, and there go your inflated stock prices.
Financially, the part of the elephant we tell ourselves, via our bedtime stories, that we have a hold of, is probably not the part the smart money is moving their strong hands to at the moment.
What I love about so-called “business journalism” is that so-called business reporters, “advertisers” is more like it, can intone dark forebodings of inflation in economic data in one breath, and then with a quick swivel of the chair to camera two and the flash of their capped Burt Lancaster pearly chiclets, wax glorious over share prices, or housing prices, or oil prices rising dramatically to inflate the cost of those industries’ products.
There really is no “Truth” in the financial world.
The choice lies in which brand of bullshit you wanna take a position in for the time being.
I read recently that perhaps as much as 40 to 50 percent of stock shares traded in American markets have been retired over the past 30 or so years.
I read recently that perhaps as much as 40 to 50 percent of stock shares traded in American markets have been retired over the past 30 or so years.
It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.
It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.
meanwhile, funniest headline of the week so far.
Can’t wait to see what tomorrow brings.
meanwhile, funniest headline of the week so far.
Can’t wait to see what tomorrow brings.
Quite liked this one:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/30/roseanne-barr-ambien-racism-611648
Quite liked this one:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/30/roseanne-barr-ambien-racism-611648
“It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.”
Not really that hard: just compare to what you would have gotten in Fed bonds over the period in question. There’s probably an online calculator to do it for you, already.
And yes, I *still* think that CGT should be at a much higher rate than wage income. Investors take risk, but they also get to deduct their losses at the higher rate.
“It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.”
Not really that hard: just compare to what you would have gotten in Fed bonds over the period in question. There’s probably an online calculator to do it for you, already.
And yes, I *still* think that CGT should be at a much higher rate than wage income. Investors take risk, but they also get to deduct their losses at the higher rate.
More Roseanne Barr.
American conservatives – all about the personal responsibility.
More Roseanne Barr.
American conservatives – all about the personal responsibility.
am I the only one who has noticed or is willing to point out that nearly all corporate boards now emulate Warren Buffet’s distaste for splitting shares, which is why we now have so many shares trading in the mid-triple digits
Well, you have to realize that, by keeping prices up like that (and combined with the usual requirement that shares be purchased in 100 share chunks), you make it hard for the hoi polloi to start becoming stock owner. Gotta keep them in their place, after all.
am I the only one who has noticed or is willing to point out that nearly all corporate boards now emulate Warren Buffet’s distaste for splitting shares, which is why we now have so many shares trading in the mid-triple digits
Well, you have to realize that, by keeping prices up like that (and combined with the usual requirement that shares be purchased in 100 share chunks), you make it hard for the hoi polloi to start becoming stock owner. Gotta keep them in their place, after all.
“It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.”
By “(after tax) yield,” do you mean (at least for one example of a kind of yield), dividends received (after tax) over the period the investment was held? I’m not sure I follow.
“It would be fair to impose CGT on gains net of inflation if you first add in any (after tax) yield. But fiddly to do.”
By “(after tax) yield,” do you mean (at least for one example of a kind of yield), dividends received (after tax) over the period the investment was held? I’m not sure I follow.
Roseanne is a total nutbar. please, “conservatives”, make her your spokesperson.
Roseanne is a total nutbar. please, “conservatives”, make her your spokesperson.
Dividends, yes. Or bond coupons, or property rent.
Dividends, yes. Or bond coupons, or property rent.
Well, if we’re going to make things fair, why not make all income, not just “earned income” subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes. If we do that, and remove the cap on how much income is subject to those taxes….
Well, if we’re going to make things fair, why not make all income, not just “earned income” subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes. If we do that, and remove the cap on how much income is subject to those taxes….
Well, if we’re going to make things fair, why not make all income, not just “earned income” subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes. If we do that, and remove the cap on how much income is subject to those taxes….
Oh, sure. Then they’d be “solvent.” And then there’d be no reason for anyone to try to cut them. What’s supposed to happen after that? Just leave them to their success as social programs? Madness!
Well, if we’re going to make things fair, why not make all income, not just “earned income” subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes. If we do that, and remove the cap on how much income is subject to those taxes….
Oh, sure. Then they’d be “solvent.” And then there’d be no reason for anyone to try to cut them. What’s supposed to happen after that? Just leave them to their success as social programs? Madness!
What’s supposed to happen after that?
Well, means testing the benefits comes to mind. Which would no doubt cost me the benefits that *I* am getting. (But then, when I started paying into the system back in the early 1960s, I figured that I’d never see a penny back from it. So I’m already ahead of the game.)
What’s supposed to happen after that?
Well, means testing the benefits comes to mind. Which would no doubt cost me the benefits that *I* am getting. (But then, when I started paying into the system back in the early 1960s, I figured that I’d never see a penny back from it. So I’m already ahead of the game.)
This may be a dead thread but this seems apropos
https://www.theonion.com/ice-agent-decides-he-wants-kids-after-seeing-incredible-1826461558?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SF&utm_content=Main&utm_medium=SocialMarketing
This may be a dead thread but this seems apropos
https://www.theonion.com/ice-agent-decides-he-wants-kids-after-seeing-incredible-1826461558?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SF&utm_content=Main&utm_medium=SocialMarketing