by liberal japonicus
Not really a great title, but I’ve been taking in a little of the discussion about Michelle Wolf’s monologue at the WHCD. And we are in need of an open thread and it’s a bummer seeing “What is racism?” every time in the sidebar (and yes, that is privilege talking, cause I can step back from it) Anyway, stuff below the fold.
Here’s Michelle Wolf’s full monologue, if you haven’t seen it.
and the transcript is here
When I watched Colbert eviscerate Bush, I felt squeamish. Even a bit sorry for Bush. I know, stupid, but it was a simpler time. But this time, not one iota. If that makes me a crappy person, so be it.
I’ll take as my jumping off point David Frum’s tut tutting in the Atlantic. He quotes his own book (convenient, that) and says
As Donald Trump is cruel, vengeful, egoistic, ignorant, lazy, avaricious, and treacherous, so we must be kind, forgiving, responsible, informed, hardworking, generous, and patriotic. As Trump’s enablers are careless, cynical, shortsighted, morally obtuse, and rancorous, so Trump’s opponents must be thoughtful, idealistic, wise, morally sensitive, and conciliatory. ‘They go low, we go high,’ as a wise woman said.
Yeah, whatever. Wolf’s jokes were carefully crafted and the set was not “careless, cynical, shortsighted, [and] morally obtuse”, it was the opposite. Rancorous, I’d grant, but when you are talking about a noise machine like this administration, how else do you propose to make people listen?
Finally, the last part of Wolf’s monologue seems to have been ignored.
There’s a ton of news right now, a lot is going on, and we have all these 24-hour news networks, and we could be covering everything. Instead, we’re covering three topics. Every hour is Trump, Russia, Hillary, and a panel full of people that remind you why you don’t go home for Thanksgiving. [imitating grumpy relative’s voice] “Milk comes from nuts now all because of the gays.”
You guys are obsessed with Trump. Did you used to date him? Because you pretend like you hate him, but I think you love him. I think what no one in this room wants to admit is that Trump has helped all of you. He couldn’t sell steaks or vodka or water or college or ties or Eric, but he has helped you. He’s helped you sell your papers and your books and your TV. You helped create this monster, and now you’re profiting off of him. If you’re going to profit off of Trump, you should at least give him some money, because he doesn’t have any.
Have at it.
Hadn’t heard Wolf’s monologue, wasn’t that interested in it. But, prompted by this post, I went and read it.
If anyone thinks it’s all about Wolf cutting Sanders because of her appearance, it ain’t. Go read it. Here.
What it was, was an ferocious equal opportunity take-down of pretty much everyone involved in our public life today. I found it harsh but refreshing.
LJ omitted the last paragraph-plus-one-sentence. The last sentence:
Folks should be grateful Wolf is just a comedian. Comedians turn anger into jokes. Other folks do other things with anger.
Hadn’t heard Wolf’s monologue, wasn’t that interested in it. But, prompted by this post, I went and read it.
If anyone thinks it’s all about Wolf cutting Sanders because of her appearance, it ain’t. Go read it. Here.
What it was, was an ferocious equal opportunity take-down of pretty much everyone involved in our public life today. I found it harsh but refreshing.
LJ omitted the last paragraph-plus-one-sentence. The last sentence:
Folks should be grateful Wolf is just a comedian. Comedians turn anger into jokes. Other folks do other things with anger.
Thanks for this, lj, that’s the first time I’ve had time and space to watch Wolf’s full remarks. I agree with you – it’s good, and justified. The only questionable thing (which sort of explains all the criticism of her for going after Huckabee Sanders’s looks) is her likening SHS to Aunt Lydia. It is harsh, but there is actually something of a resemblance, and more to the point, as an avatar of the religious right because of her father, it makes proper sense. It was a good set. But as well as criticism along the lines that opponents of Trump et al should “go high when they go low”, you can’t ignore this element: that Wolf is a woman, and women who are too sharp, critical and tough are always criticised and traduced. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
p.s. Sorry for putting the Cambridge Analytica stuff in What is Racism, which was not an open thread. My thread discipline is lousy!
Thanks for this, lj, that’s the first time I’ve had time and space to watch Wolf’s full remarks. I agree with you – it’s good, and justified. The only questionable thing (which sort of explains all the criticism of her for going after Huckabee Sanders’s looks) is her likening SHS to Aunt Lydia. It is harsh, but there is actually something of a resemblance, and more to the point, as an avatar of the religious right because of her father, it makes proper sense. It was a good set. But as well as criticism along the lines that opponents of Trump et al should “go high when they go low”, you can’t ignore this element: that Wolf is a woman, and women who are too sharp, critical and tough are always criticised and traduced. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
p.s. Sorry for putting the Cambridge Analytica stuff in What is Racism, which was not an open thread. My thread discipline is lousy!
all the moaning about Wolf is fake. it’s theater. it’s flopping on the pitch, grabbing your leg – oops, no not that leg! the other leg! – and crying trying to draw a penalty against the other team.
the press isn’t going to admit they’re bad at their jobs. they’re going to study the tape over and over, brows furrowed in performative judiciousness, trying to decide if there was illegal contact. the players all know it’s fake. but the refs can’t admit it.
all the moaning about Wolf is fake. it’s theater. it’s flopping on the pitch, grabbing your leg – oops, no not that leg! the other leg! – and crying trying to draw a penalty against the other team.
the press isn’t going to admit they’re bad at their jobs. they’re going to study the tape over and over, brows furrowed in performative judiciousness, trying to decide if there was illegal contact. the players all know it’s fake. but the refs can’t admit it.
Russell, I did want to include that last line, but wanted to leave out the loose change joke, which doesn’t work as a quote because she set it up earlier in the set. But yeah, that last line must have left a mark. Or should have.
GftNC, yes, the sexist angle to the complaints about Wolf’s set is telling. Unrelated to that, but related to sexism was this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/dining/alice-waters-egg-spoon-me-too-movement.html
Russell, I did want to include that last line, but wanted to leave out the loose change joke, which doesn’t work as a quote because she set it up earlier in the set. But yeah, that last line must have left a mark. Or should have.
GftNC, yes, the sexist angle to the complaints about Wolf’s set is telling. Unrelated to that, but related to sexism was this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/dining/alice-waters-egg-spoon-me-too-movement.html
I recommend listening to Terry Gross interviewing Michelle Wolf (Fresh Air). Re: Sarah Sanders, among other things.
I recommend listening to Terry Gross interviewing Michelle Wolf (Fresh Air). Re: Sarah Sanders, among other things.
“Going high” does not mean not fighting back.
As Donald Trump is cruel, vengeful, egoistic, ignorant, lazy, avaricious, and treacherous, so we must be kind, forgiving, responsible, informed, hardworking, generous, and patriotic.
Being kind, responsible, informed, hardworking and generous have nothing to do with Trump or his henchmen (henchpeople?).
Being patriotic and forgiving do. Patriotism requires resistance to Trump, for the good of the country, not shrugging it all off with the blasé attitude of sophisticated insiders.
Forgiveness is fine, once the wrongdoer admits the wrongdoing, atones, and asks for forgiveness. I don’t see Trumpists doing that. So fight back.
Trump’s opponents must be thoughtful, idealistic, wise, morally sensitive, and conciliatory
Again, most of this has nothing to do with Trump’s enablers. But what is the reason that we must be conciliatory? Towards who? No, Mr. Frum, there is no such requirement, quite the opposite, in fact.
“Going high” does not mean not fighting back.
As Donald Trump is cruel, vengeful, egoistic, ignorant, lazy, avaricious, and treacherous, so we must be kind, forgiving, responsible, informed, hardworking, generous, and patriotic.
Being kind, responsible, informed, hardworking and generous have nothing to do with Trump or his henchmen (henchpeople?).
Being patriotic and forgiving do. Patriotism requires resistance to Trump, for the good of the country, not shrugging it all off with the blasé attitude of sophisticated insiders.
Forgiveness is fine, once the wrongdoer admits the wrongdoing, atones, and asks for forgiveness. I don’t see Trumpists doing that. So fight back.
Trump’s opponents must be thoughtful, idealistic, wise, morally sensitive, and conciliatory
Again, most of this has nothing to do with Trump’s enablers. But what is the reason that we must be conciliatory? Towards who? No, Mr. Frum, there is no such requirement, quite the opposite, in fact.
We live in a world where this is a real headline.
Part of me is used to it, or at least exhausted by it. Another part still thinks “?!?*##!!**$#@!!??%??!!!???”
We live in a world where this is a real headline.
Part of me is used to it, or at least exhausted by it. Another part still thinks “?!?*##!!**$#@!!??%??!!!???”
Glad I heard that, ral, thanks.
Glad I heard that, ral, thanks.
After emerging unscathed from the nuclear holocaust of America, President for radioactive isotope Half-Life Donald mp will offer curative and restorative transfusions of his very own branded and precious bodily fluids to the lesser men and women among those unlucky enough to survive his exceptional American excellence:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/breaking-from-trumps-doctors-most-remarkable-physical-specimen-of-all-time?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
I’m cheered to have apostate RHINO Republican David Frum agree with me on a few items, and in return I plan to be neo-conciliatory in a neo-morally, neo-sensitive, neo-sort of neo-way.
But regarding mp and company, once Mussolini’s and his enablers’ carcasses were cut down and the mess shoveled away and hosed down, we once again had Rome in the spring time with a nice Chianti.
The winters will be unseasonably mild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzt82V-xtfA
After emerging unscathed from the nuclear holocaust of America, President for radioactive isotope Half-Life Donald mp will offer curative and restorative transfusions of his very own branded and precious bodily fluids to the lesser men and women among those unlucky enough to survive his exceptional American excellence:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/breaking-from-trumps-doctors-most-remarkable-physical-specimen-of-all-time?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning
I’m cheered to have apostate RHINO Republican David Frum agree with me on a few items, and in return I plan to be neo-conciliatory in a neo-morally, neo-sensitive, neo-sort of neo-way.
But regarding mp and company, once Mussolini’s and his enablers’ carcasses were cut down and the mess shoveled away and hosed down, we once again had Rome in the spring time with a nice Chianti.
The winters will be unseasonably mild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzt82V-xtfA
LJ omitted the last paragraph-plus-one-sentence. The last sentence:
Flint still doesn’t have clean water.
I rather thought that that last line was the biggest zinger of the whole show.
LJ omitted the last paragraph-plus-one-sentence. The last sentence:
Flint still doesn’t have clean water.
I rather thought that that last line was the biggest zinger of the whole show.
“Flint still doesn’t have clean water.”
Puerto Rico still doesn’t have clean water and electrical power.
Every thread is the “What is Racism” thread.
Meanwhile, on screen six:
http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/02/caputo-questioned-by-special-counsel/
“They have every bit of information you could possibly have on the Trump campaign,” said Caputo, who worked for the Trump effort in late 2015 and early 2016, in a telephone interview with The Buffalo News. “They had a lot of questions I had no answers to. At times it was kind of frightening.”
And, yeah, I picked up the link to that article at Daily Kos. I’d prefer to have found it at FOX, Brietbart, the Wall Street Journal, National Review Online or the National Enquirer, which are much more objective news sources, but they didn’t have it.
Maybe Redstate will make mention of it. Let’s check.
https://www.thewrap.com/conservative-site-boots-anti-trump-voices-in-mass-firing-says-former-editor/
I’ll be conciliatory to conservative, martyred sociopath Erick Erickson, but I’ll be holding his wife’s shotgun pointed at him while I consider the quality of my mercy.
“Flint still doesn’t have clean water.”
Puerto Rico still doesn’t have clean water and electrical power.
Every thread is the “What is Racism” thread.
Meanwhile, on screen six:
http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/02/caputo-questioned-by-special-counsel/
“They have every bit of information you could possibly have on the Trump campaign,” said Caputo, who worked for the Trump effort in late 2015 and early 2016, in a telephone interview with The Buffalo News. “They had a lot of questions I had no answers to. At times it was kind of frightening.”
And, yeah, I picked up the link to that article at Daily Kos. I’d prefer to have found it at FOX, Brietbart, the Wall Street Journal, National Review Online or the National Enquirer, which are much more objective news sources, but they didn’t have it.
Maybe Redstate will make mention of it. Let’s check.
https://www.thewrap.com/conservative-site-boots-anti-trump-voices-in-mass-firing-says-former-editor/
I’ll be conciliatory to conservative, martyred sociopath Erick Erickson, but I’ll be holding his wife’s shotgun pointed at him while I consider the quality of my mercy.
Paul Campos at LGM in the comments section:
“Did you see the Rolling Stone story about Michael Cohen’s pre-Trump law career? It consisted of running insurance scams in which people staged fake car accidents and then sued. Apparently the NYC-area Russian mob is big into this kind of thing, which is just another crazy coincidence of course.”
Paul Campos at LGM in the comments section:
“Did you see the Rolling Stone story about Michael Cohen’s pre-Trump law career? It consisted of running insurance scams in which people staged fake car accidents and then sued. Apparently the NYC-area Russian mob is big into this kind of thing, which is just another crazy coincidence of course.”
Conservative “Money Honey” and cracked broadcast journalist Maria (If You Like Social Security So Much, Why Aren’t You On It?, she once asked a mid-50ish guest on CNBC) Bartiromo “sorta knew”.
https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/05/03/maria-bartiromo-revelation-trump-reimbursed-michael-cohen-cnn-was-reporting-such-bombshell-i-dont/220104
I love it when a jackass posing as a journalist sorta knows something.
“This just in. We sorta know 12 people perished on I-25 in a fiery 42-car pileup this afternoon. For more on this story, drive out there yourselves, conduct a few interviews on your own, sorta take some notes. Maybe you can use our FOXNews helicopter to sort of hover over the scene and get some footage, cause we here at NEWS1 just are not on it.
I remember back in the day when the traders on the floor of the NYSE would stand back with their tongues lolling as the Money Honey spewed cub reporter word salad at the CNBC cameras.
I sorta knew some things too, but I just couldn’t put Donald mp’s finger on it.
Conservative “Money Honey” and cracked broadcast journalist Maria (If You Like Social Security So Much, Why Aren’t You On It?, she once asked a mid-50ish guest on CNBC) Bartiromo “sorta knew”.
https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/05/03/maria-bartiromo-revelation-trump-reimbursed-michael-cohen-cnn-was-reporting-such-bombshell-i-dont/220104
I love it when a jackass posing as a journalist sorta knows something.
“This just in. We sorta know 12 people perished on I-25 in a fiery 42-car pileup this afternoon. For more on this story, drive out there yourselves, conduct a few interviews on your own, sorta take some notes. Maybe you can use our FOXNews helicopter to sort of hover over the scene and get some footage, cause we here at NEWS1 just are not on it.
I remember back in the day when the traders on the floor of the NYSE would stand back with their tongues lolling as the Money Honey spewed cub reporter word salad at the CNBC cameras.
I sorta knew some things too, but I just couldn’t put Donald mp’s finger on it.
The whole press dinner thing seems way too comfortable to me.
Colbert was a breath of fresh air and very funny. Wolf took it a bit further, which given >Trump<, seems eminently justifiable. I can understand the Republicans getting a fit of the vapours, wilfully misunderstanding a couple of the gags and choking on their own hypocrisy ... but the media reaction has been mainly pathetic. Maybe time to give up on the whole thing ? The only problem I had with it was that some of the jokes could have been a bit sharper/funnier. Tough crowd, though.
The whole press dinner thing seems way too comfortable to me.
Colbert was a breath of fresh air and very funny. Wolf took it a bit further, which given >Trump<, seems eminently justifiable. I can understand the Republicans getting a fit of the vapours, wilfully misunderstanding a couple of the gags and choking on their own hypocrisy ... but the media reaction has been mainly pathetic. Maybe time to give up on the whole thing ? The only problem I had with it was that some of the jokes could have been a bit sharper/funnier. Tough crowd, though.
I admit to finding Colbert hysterically funny. But I still think that the funniest item from his whole career remains the Bush White House inviting him for some event because they thought his send-up of a conservative commenter was serious. That is, they somehow missed that he wasn’t one of them.
I admit to finding Colbert hysterically funny. But I still think that the funniest item from his whole career remains the Bush White House inviting him for some event because they thought his send-up of a conservative commenter was serious. That is, they somehow missed that he wasn’t one of them.
We are working together as a team of backstabbers to make our country .. well, A country .. great at backstabbing again:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/1857/11/epa-leaks/559607/?preview=ntqrDVAI0e6eHCcLKWkYujgOXcA
We are working together as a team of backstabbers to make our country .. well, A country .. great at backstabbing again:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/1857/11/epa-leaks/559607/?preview=ntqrDVAI0e6eHCcLKWkYujgOXcA
all the moaning about Wolf is fake. it’s theater. it’s flopping on the pitch, grabbing your leg – oops, no not that leg! the other leg! – and crying trying to draw a penalty against the other team.
cleek’s right. It’s bad faith all the way down. Purely party over country, no principles. Trump has done everything they accused Obama/Hillary/Loretta Lynch, etc. of 100 times over and 100 times worse and…crickets.
Fnck them, they’re not going to save the country even if they are the only ones who can. Watch what happens when Trump fires Mueller or has Acting Attorney General Giuliani do it.
all the moaning about Wolf is fake. it’s theater. it’s flopping on the pitch, grabbing your leg – oops, no not that leg! the other leg! – and crying trying to draw a penalty against the other team.
cleek’s right. It’s bad faith all the way down. Purely party over country, no principles. Trump has done everything they accused Obama/Hillary/Loretta Lynch, etc. of 100 times over and 100 times worse and…crickets.
Fnck them, they’re not going to save the country even if they are the only ones who can. Watch what happens when Trump fires Mueller or has Acting Attorney General Giuliani do it.
Her monologue fits right into todays late night comedy and, for all the reasons in this thread, it’s not comedy anymore. I cant say it better than Rob Schneider
“People aren’t really laughing at it as much as cheering on the rhetoric. It no longer resembles a comedy show, it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.”
While he said that about late night comedy, Wolf fits that perfectly. So sure, she attacked Trump, Sanders and others in what was not in any way comedy.
Her monologue fits right into todays late night comedy and, for all the reasons in this thread, it’s not comedy anymore. I cant say it better than Rob Schneider
“People aren’t really laughing at it as much as cheering on the rhetoric. It no longer resembles a comedy show, it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.”
While he said that about late night comedy, Wolf fits that perfectly. So sure, she attacked Trump, Sanders and others in what was not in any way comedy.
“People aren’t really laughing at it as much as cheering on the rhetoric. It no longer resembles a comedy show, it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.”
Yes, because criticizing people because you disagree with what they do is just like terrorizing people because of their race. Especially in this case, because Trump is so beyond reproach. (And what about the media criticism? I thought conservatives hated the media.)
If you can’t say it any better than Rob Schneider, you should probably not say anything at all.
“People aren’t really laughing at it as much as cheering on the rhetoric. It no longer resembles a comedy show, it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.”
Yes, because criticizing people because you disagree with what they do is just like terrorizing people because of their race. Especially in this case, because Trump is so beyond reproach. (And what about the media criticism? I thought conservatives hated the media.)
If you can’t say it any better than Rob Schneider, you should probably not say anything at all.
The media really needs to figure out how to handle allegations/expressions of outrage made in bad faith by political leaders. GOP has played them for so long.
The media really needs to figure out how to handle allegations/expressions of outrage made in bad faith by political leaders. GOP has played them for so long.
Greg Gutfeld tried being the Klan’s house comic but he could never get the eye holes straight.
Greg Gutfeld tried being the Klan’s house comic but he could never get the eye holes straight.
Outsourcing again…A Plea For Civil Discourse
Check out the link. Funny is as funny does.
Outsourcing again…A Plea For Civil Discourse
Check out the link. Funny is as funny does.
mp is President (I was going to say he won, but I try to stay fairly accurate, even in jest).
Elections have consequences, especially ones in which all three branches of government are placed into the hands of one (the wrong) political party.
One of those consequences is that comedians, like those on SNL, which I never watch, have to brush up on new material and new characters when addressing the topical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXdNYXMQoy8
I’m going to agree, though, with others that comedy (and satire) in America, might be dead. Nothing seems funny to me any longer, though I make attempts of my own.
It reminds me of the years leading up to the Civil War when a southern conservative slave owner and part-time comedian bludgeoned a northern abolitionist and liberal republican in name only on the floor of the Senate nearly to death with a cream pie and a seltzer bottle.
The jokes just weren’t funny any longer.
Then you had them liberal Hollywood types like John Wilkes Booth, whose punchlines were delivered from the back of the room.
mp is President (I was going to say he won, but I try to stay fairly accurate, even in jest).
Elections have consequences, especially ones in which all three branches of government are placed into the hands of one (the wrong) political party.
One of those consequences is that comedians, like those on SNL, which I never watch, have to brush up on new material and new characters when addressing the topical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXdNYXMQoy8
I’m going to agree, though, with others that comedy (and satire) in America, might be dead. Nothing seems funny to me any longer, though I make attempts of my own.
It reminds me of the years leading up to the Civil War when a southern conservative slave owner and part-time comedian bludgeoned a northern abolitionist and liberal republican in name only on the floor of the Senate nearly to death with a cream pie and a seltzer bottle.
The jokes just weren’t funny any longer.
Then you had them liberal Hollywood types like John Wilkes Booth, whose punchlines were delivered from the back of the room.
I don’t believe Rich Little, no liberal, he, ever did an impression of LBJ after 1968, nor George McGovern after 1972.
Out of the news.
Maybe a few Jimmy Carter deliveries after 1980, but who could resist.
True story, according to Little, Richard Nixon could never figure who Little was doing, even when Little was doing HIM live in the same room.
It was a little like the fake conservative Colbert phenomenon.
It conservatives want more send-ups of liberal politician tomfoolery, then vote for them.
Until then, the joke is on you.
I don’t believe Rich Little, no liberal, he, ever did an impression of LBJ after 1968, nor George McGovern after 1972.
Out of the news.
Maybe a few Jimmy Carter deliveries after 1980, but who could resist.
True story, according to Little, Richard Nixon could never figure who Little was doing, even when Little was doing HIM live in the same room.
It was a little like the fake conservative Colbert phenomenon.
It conservatives want more send-ups of liberal politician tomfoolery, then vote for them.
Until then, the joke is on you.
Why does it take a comic to point out to the Washington press corps just what their job is supposed to be?
Why does it take a comic to point out to the Washington press corps just what their job is supposed to be?
Well, Rudy made me laugh today.
Obviously, we should all be crying that this sh$tshow is allowed to continue . But mocking them makes me feel better anyway.
Well, Rudy made me laugh today.
Obviously, we should all be crying that this sh$tshow is allowed to continue . But mocking them makes me feel better anyway.
Oops – Fixing link.
Not sure how that other thing happened. Sorry!
Oops – Fixing link.
Not sure how that other thing happened. Sorry!
it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.
A Klan meeting is when they burn a cross on your lawn, or beat the shit out of you, or shoot you, or mutilate you, or hang you.
Somebody calling you out for your own bullshit is not a Klan meeting.
Trump’s a crook. His people are crooks thugs and creeps. They’re all a pack of fucking liars.
It is what it is. Don’t blame me, I didn’t vote for the man.
it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.
A Klan meeting is when they burn a cross on your lawn, or beat the shit out of you, or shoot you, or mutilate you, or hang you.
Somebody calling you out for your own bullshit is not a Klan meeting.
Trump’s a crook. His people are crooks thugs and creeps. They’re all a pack of fucking liars.
It is what it is. Don’t blame me, I didn’t vote for the man.
This is old news, and even if was breaking, it would be one small turd in the daily shitstorm:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/mcmaster-and-commander
It’s long, but worth it if you want to learn what happens to anyone who works for this lout monstrosity, is married to him, is born to him, or has the honor of being his enemy, which is where everyone ends up, except his loving stinking dupes among the American people.
This jumped out at me:
“Most N.S.C. employees spend their careers out of the public eye. But a series of online posts by Bannon allies targeted staff members who were perceived as traitorous, exposing personal details about them. A woman named Megan Badasch, who had worked for Trump during the transition and had become the N.S.C.’s deputy executive secretary, was subjected to so much online abuse that she became fearful for her own safety and moved out of her apartment. Badasch regarded herself as a Trump loyalist, and felt that she had been slandered. One of McMaster’s daughters tried to reassure her, saying, “If you’re being attacked because you’re on Dad’s side, you’re on the right side of history.” (She stayed in her post.) Another N.S.C. staffer, Eric Ciaramella, was described on right-wing blogs as a leaker out to “sabotage Trump.” After receiving death threats, he quit the N.S.C. and returned to his home agency.
According to numerous Administration officials, at least some of the leaks about the N.S.C. were coming from the Flynnstones: they were passing information about colleagues to Bannonite allies on the outside. “It’s like cyberbullying at the highest level,” a senior official told me. “You’re scared. Because these are bad people.” As the atmosphere grew increasingly poisonous, McMaster began to fire the Flynnstones, including his old friend Derek Harvey. Harvey was rumored to have aligned himself with Bannon, though he insisted to friends that this wasn’t the case. He had become consumed with questioning the loyalty of the career staff of the N.S.C.’s Middle East directorate. One day, a member of the directorate approached McMaster after a meeting. “I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but Derek is trying to fire practically the entire staff,” he said.’
The right wing threatening murder and violence against mp loyalists and republican conservatives in our government.
Nothing is done. The U.S. Government refuses to protect its own employees against threats.
I’m here to tell you there will be savagely violent retribution against conservative vermin.
This is old news, and even if was breaking, it would be one small turd in the daily shitstorm:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/mcmaster-and-commander
It’s long, but worth it if you want to learn what happens to anyone who works for this lout monstrosity, is married to him, is born to him, or has the honor of being his enemy, which is where everyone ends up, except his loving stinking dupes among the American people.
This jumped out at me:
“Most N.S.C. employees spend their careers out of the public eye. But a series of online posts by Bannon allies targeted staff members who were perceived as traitorous, exposing personal details about them. A woman named Megan Badasch, who had worked for Trump during the transition and had become the N.S.C.’s deputy executive secretary, was subjected to so much online abuse that she became fearful for her own safety and moved out of her apartment. Badasch regarded herself as a Trump loyalist, and felt that she had been slandered. One of McMaster’s daughters tried to reassure her, saying, “If you’re being attacked because you’re on Dad’s side, you’re on the right side of history.” (She stayed in her post.) Another N.S.C. staffer, Eric Ciaramella, was described on right-wing blogs as a leaker out to “sabotage Trump.” After receiving death threats, he quit the N.S.C. and returned to his home agency.
According to numerous Administration officials, at least some of the leaks about the N.S.C. were coming from the Flynnstones: they were passing information about colleagues to Bannonite allies on the outside. “It’s like cyberbullying at the highest level,” a senior official told me. “You’re scared. Because these are bad people.” As the atmosphere grew increasingly poisonous, McMaster began to fire the Flynnstones, including his old friend Derek Harvey. Harvey was rumored to have aligned himself with Bannon, though he insisted to friends that this wasn’t the case. He had become consumed with questioning the loyalty of the career staff of the N.S.C.’s Middle East directorate. One day, a member of the directorate approached McMaster after a meeting. “I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but Derek is trying to fire practically the entire staff,” he said.’
The right wing threatening murder and violence against mp loyalists and republican conservatives in our government.
Nothing is done. The U.S. Government refuses to protect its own employees against threats.
I’m here to tell you there will be savagely violent retribution against conservative vermin.
Count, they’re working their hardest to ruin the judiciary, but there’s still some hope there. This is why I’m laughing about Giuliani. Obviously, the verdict isn’t in yet.
Count, they’re working their hardest to ruin the judiciary, but there’s still some hope there. This is why I’m laughing about Giuliani. Obviously, the verdict isn’t in yet.
Ryan, that righteous, anti-religious, anti-free-speech guttersnipe:
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/too-many-catholic-chaplains.html
Let the Chaplain speak his mind on immoral republican policies. From the House floor and to the rafters of the Capitol.
After all, big-haired conservative cheats, grifters and finger fuckers in fake God-bothering pulpits can now send the offering plate around to buy votes and filthy conservative politicians without hindrance from long-established rule of law:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signs-order-aimed-at-allowing-churches-to-engage-in-more-political-activity/2017/05/04/024ed7c2-30d3-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0cdcbb137413
Ryan, that righteous, anti-religious, anti-free-speech guttersnipe:
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/too-many-catholic-chaplains.html
Let the Chaplain speak his mind on immoral republican policies. From the House floor and to the rafters of the Capitol.
After all, big-haired conservative cheats, grifters and finger fuckers in fake God-bothering pulpits can now send the offering plate around to buy votes and filthy conservative politicians without hindrance from long-established rule of law:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signs-order-aimed-at-allowing-churches-to-engage-in-more-political-activity/2017/05/04/024ed7c2-30d3-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0cdcbb137413
All I can say is that I have developed a massive crush on Michelle Wolf after that performance.
All I can say is that I have developed a massive crush on Michelle Wolf after that performance.
This comment is, at its heart, a present for the Count which, as one might expect, is NSFW.
At LGM, they quoted Mike Allen, who observed that Michelle Wolf
…made several uses of a vulgarity that begins with “p,” in an audience filled with Washington officials, top journalists and a few baseball legends (Brooks Robinson, Tony La Russa and Dennis Eckersley).
and posted the following YouTube video of Earl Weaver. One of the commentators thoughtfully posted this story about Dennis Eckersley.
And I was reminded of this video of the infamous recording of Earl Weaver’s Manager’s corner. Enjoy!
This comment is, at its heart, a present for the Count which, as one might expect, is NSFW.
At LGM, they quoted Mike Allen, who observed that Michelle Wolf
…made several uses of a vulgarity that begins with “p,” in an audience filled with Washington officials, top journalists and a few baseball legends (Brooks Robinson, Tony La Russa and Dennis Eckersley).
and posted the following YouTube video of Earl Weaver. One of the commentators thoughtfully posted this story about Dennis Eckersley.
And I was reminded of this video of the infamous recording of Earl Weaver’s Manager’s corner. Enjoy!
marty’s right in saying this is no longer just, or even mostly, a comedy thing. this is a people are f’ing pissed off thing.
folks who need the smelling salts after wolf’s routine should wise up.
folks will put up with a lot, and have done so. but there is a limit.
folks wanted president trump, so now we have president trump, with all that entails. he is not being treated with respect because he is not respectable. elect somebody better next time.
in the meantime, no whining about wolf’s comments being ‘beyond the pale’. go listen to decades of rush, or coulter, or ingraham, or whoever you like, and tell me what ‘beyond the pale’ means to you.
be happy it’s just jokes at this point.
marty’s right in saying this is no longer just, or even mostly, a comedy thing. this is a people are f’ing pissed off thing.
folks who need the smelling salts after wolf’s routine should wise up.
folks will put up with a lot, and have done so. but there is a limit.
folks wanted president trump, so now we have president trump, with all that entails. he is not being treated with respect because he is not respectable. elect somebody better next time.
in the meantime, no whining about wolf’s comments being ‘beyond the pale’. go listen to decades of rush, or coulter, or ingraham, or whoever you like, and tell me what ‘beyond the pale’ means to you.
be happy it’s just jokes at this point.
Amen, Russell.
Amen, Russell.
“F**k your feelings!” “Snowflakes!”
Yeah…
“F**k your feelings!” “Snowflakes!”
Yeah…
I cant say it better than Rob Schneider
then i pity the both of you. you, mostly.
I cant say it better than Rob Schneider
then i pity the both of you. you, mostly.
it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.
shove it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html
it’s more like some kind of liberal Klan meeting.
shove it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html
Thanks, lj.
Weaver needed a trigger warning when he asked someone at table to pass the salt.
I play hardball and softball. The English language is hard, of the Earl Weaver/Billy Martin variety, in both.
I once watched a softball team years ago, a good one, who we were about to play in a high-stakes tournament, gather together on the infield, all on one knee, hats off, each player with one hand placed like a visor over their eyes, reflecting on God’s bounty and HIS allotment of three-run dingers as their coach led them in prayerful petition for my team’s total destruction and defeat.
They rose as one to play ball, and … we heard this from our dugout as looked on … their Coach said loud enough for everyone to hear, “Now, let’s kick these c*cks*ckers’ a*ses.”
They did, and good for them, but we gave them an Old Testament game, with floods, child sacrifice, plagues, and threw in at least three of the four Horseman of the New Testament Apocalypse for good measure.
Next day, my team gained eternal redemption as we beat THEM the second time around.
They changed their team name to the Philistines, from God’s Gift to the National Pastime, which was wordy and didn’t fit on their shirts anyhoo.
I love that Eckersley story. mp couldn’t hold Eckersley’s jock. F*ck ’em, indeed.
When I watched clips of Wolf’s deal, I thought of the old Dean Martin’s roasts, only maybe half of which we got to see publicly, because these guys, and by guys I mean Lucille Ball, Phyllis Diller, and Moms Mabley, were foul-mouthed dirty guys.
If you don’t believe me, read a Dean Martin biography.
They were ALL, nearly to a man, conservative Republicans.
There were more abortions that could be traced back to that conservative crew of swordsman than Planned Parenthood could ever dream of.
Midwestern girls from good Christian families flew over their hometowns just for a seat on the casting couch.
And there wasn’t a dry seat in the house as the old show-biz adage goes.
I’m not endorsing any of that, but bring towels just in case.
This was back when Hollywood really corrupted the culture.
And if you didn’t like it, Sinatra had people to offer a therapeutic nudge to make you like it. Lee Marvin could freeze Joe Pesci’s testicles with one glare at 20 paces.
They weren’t pathetic snowflakes, like the current variety of conservatives.
Thanks, lj.
Weaver needed a trigger warning when he asked someone at table to pass the salt.
I play hardball and softball. The English language is hard, of the Earl Weaver/Billy Martin variety, in both.
I once watched a softball team years ago, a good one, who we were about to play in a high-stakes tournament, gather together on the infield, all on one knee, hats off, each player with one hand placed like a visor over their eyes, reflecting on God’s bounty and HIS allotment of three-run dingers as their coach led them in prayerful petition for my team’s total destruction and defeat.
They rose as one to play ball, and … we heard this from our dugout as looked on … their Coach said loud enough for everyone to hear, “Now, let’s kick these c*cks*ckers’ a*ses.”
They did, and good for them, but we gave them an Old Testament game, with floods, child sacrifice, plagues, and threw in at least three of the four Horseman of the New Testament Apocalypse for good measure.
Next day, my team gained eternal redemption as we beat THEM the second time around.
They changed their team name to the Philistines, from God’s Gift to the National Pastime, which was wordy and didn’t fit on their shirts anyhoo.
I love that Eckersley story. mp couldn’t hold Eckersley’s jock. F*ck ’em, indeed.
When I watched clips of Wolf’s deal, I thought of the old Dean Martin’s roasts, only maybe half of which we got to see publicly, because these guys, and by guys I mean Lucille Ball, Phyllis Diller, and Moms Mabley, were foul-mouthed dirty guys.
If you don’t believe me, read a Dean Martin biography.
They were ALL, nearly to a man, conservative Republicans.
There were more abortions that could be traced back to that conservative crew of swordsman than Planned Parenthood could ever dream of.
Midwestern girls from good Christian families flew over their hometowns just for a seat on the casting couch.
And there wasn’t a dry seat in the house as the old show-biz adage goes.
I’m not endorsing any of that, but bring towels just in case.
This was back when Hollywood really corrupted the culture.
And if you didn’t like it, Sinatra had people to offer a therapeutic nudge to make you like it. Lee Marvin could freeze Joe Pesci’s testicles with one glare at 20 paces.
They weren’t pathetic snowflakes, like the current variety of conservatives.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed, and if you don’t play (see Fallon), you get Twitter lynched. No problem for me, I know where the channel changer is on my tv.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again. It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals. But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed, and if you don’t play (see Fallon), you get Twitter lynched. No problem for me, I know where the channel changer is on my tv.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again. It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals. But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again. It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
You’ll have to settle for three branches of government for now, and the loony conspiracy-theory news outlets for when you want to have a little more fun.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again. It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
You’ll have to settle for three branches of government for now, and the loony conspiracy-theory news outlets for when you want to have a little more fun.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.
They pretend to be journalists. The liberal comedians are actually better journalists than Rush and the others, without really trying. And they’re way funnier.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.
They pretend to be journalists. The liberal comedians are actually better journalists than Rush and the others, without really trying. And they’re way funnier.
Rush doesn’t even pretend to be a journalist, he’s always been a shock jock.
And no, the liberal comedians aren’t journalists. That you, abd the Daily Showw generation, count them as such is a problem.
Rush doesn’t even pretend to be a journalist, he’s always been a shock jock.
And no, the liberal comedians aren’t journalists. That you, abd the Daily Showw generation, count them as such is a problem.
“Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.”
Yes, but back when Limbaugh’s radio show was videotaped, the studio audience pretended to roll around in the aisles, mirthlessly.
Yeah, he’s pretending to do comedy:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh
It was a little like this audience, until the fire department was called in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx-rrBv2lyc&t=197s
I need some new clips.
“Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy, he is an asshat for a living, So are the others.”
Yes, but back when Limbaugh’s radio show was videotaped, the studio audience pretended to roll around in the aisles, mirthlessly.
Yeah, he’s pretending to do comedy:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh
It was a little like this audience, until the fire department was called in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx-rrBv2lyc&t=197s
I need some new clips.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy
Rush describes himself as an entertainer. He’s also an honorary member of Congress.
Dig that.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed
Watch something else.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again.
Someday I’d like to be able to watch the State of the Union again.
It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
It is what it is.
Hey, W delivered his “where are those WMD?” at a correspondents dinner. Equal time, seems to me.
But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
So, don’t watch. I don’t.
Sorry to be unsympathetic, but I don’t have it in me to be concerned for the tender feelings of people who are put off by a comedian taking it to Trump et al. Or whoever, et al, for that matter.
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy
Rush describes himself as an entertainer. He’s also an honorary member of Congress.
Dig that.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed
Watch something else.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again.
Someday I’d like to be able to watch the State of the Union again.
It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
It is what it is.
Hey, W delivered his “where are those WMD?” at a correspondents dinner. Equal time, seems to me.
But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
So, don’t watch. I don’t.
Sorry to be unsympathetic, but I don’t have it in me to be concerned for the tender feelings of people who are put off by a comedian taking it to Trump et al. Or whoever, et al, for that matter.
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy
Rush describes himself as an entertainer. He’s also an honorary member of Congress.
Dig that.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed
Watch something else.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again.
Someday I’d like to be able to watch the State of the Union again.
It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
It is what it is.
Hey, W delivered his “where are those WMD?” at a correspondents dinner. Equal time, seems to me.
But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
So, don’t watch. I don’t.
Sorry to be unsympathetic, but I don’t have it in me to be concerned for the tender feelings of people who are put off by a comedian taking it to Trump et al. Or whoever, et al, for that matter.
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
Rush doesn’t pretend to be doing comedy
Rush describes himself as an entertainer. He’s also an honorary member of Congress.
Dig that.
Late night comedy is just a long nonstop liberal screed
Watch something else.
But someday I would like to be able to watch the Oscars, or any other awards show, again.
Someday I’d like to be able to watch the State of the Union again.
It would be great if the Correspondents dinner wasn’t just for liberals.
It is what it is.
Hey, W delivered his “where are those WMD?” at a correspondents dinner. Equal time, seems to me.
But none of that is comedy and, at this point, those shows are just part of the liberal echo chamber.
So, don’t watch. I don’t.
Sorry to be unsympathetic, but I don’t have it in me to be concerned for the tender feelings of people who are put off by a comedian taking it to Trump et al. Or whoever, et al, for that matter.
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
And no, the liberal comedians aren’t journalists. That you, abd the Daily Showw generation, count them as such is a problem.
I don’t “count them” as journalists. They simply do a better job of it than Rush and his ilk, purely by accident while doing political comedy.
Rush can say whatever he wants about being a shock jock. It’s just cover. His audience, at least some of them (too many) believe his BS, and he knows it, and he counts on it. Same for the rest. They’re propagandists.
Ridicule is perfectly valid when ridiculing the ridiculous. Trump and the modern GOP are ridiculous.
And no, the liberal comedians aren’t journalists. That you, abd the Daily Showw generation, count them as such is a problem.
I don’t “count them” as journalists. They simply do a better job of it than Rush and his ilk, purely by accident while doing political comedy.
Rush can say whatever he wants about being a shock jock. It’s just cover. His audience, at least some of them (too many) believe his BS, and he knows it, and he counts on it. Same for the rest. They’re propagandists.
Ridicule is perfectly valid when ridiculing the ridiculous. Trump and the modern GOP are ridiculous.
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
Yes. And imagine how the conservative snowflakes would feel if Michelle Wolf were president rather than a not very well-known comedian (at least not very well known before the WHCD – but still just a comedian afterward).
If you run on hate and anger, don’t be surprised if some of that comes back to you.
Yes. And imagine how the conservative snowflakes would feel if Michelle Wolf were president rather than a not very well-known comedian (at least not very well known before the WHCD – but still just a comedian afterward).
mp says he would love to be interviewed by Mueller, but must be “treated fairly”.
You got time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYvHHc4igk
A flaming arrow from a Ute tribe Pocahontas shot through his pig throat would approach fairness.
I’d like to see him try his schtick for a couple of open mic moments at my local watering hole.
His face would be introduced to the sidewalk outside real quick, and we’d have to pull the female bartender slamming his head against the concrete off him just to let the rest of us get a shot in.
I will give you that if he in fact shot a guy dead on Fifth Avenue, his poll numbers would jump upward from 41% by a good amount and the stock market would soar.
America loves a comedian.
mp says he would love to be interviewed by Mueller, but must be “treated fairly”.
You got time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYvHHc4igk
A flaming arrow from a Ute tribe Pocahontas shot through his pig throat would approach fairness.
I’d like to see him try his schtick for a couple of open mic moments at my local watering hole.
His face would be introduced to the sidewalk outside real quick, and we’d have to pull the female bartender slamming his head against the concrete off him just to let the rest of us get a shot in.
I will give you that if he in fact shot a guy dead on Fifth Avenue, his poll numbers would jump upward from 41% by a good amount and the stock market would soar.
America loves a comedian.
Start that clip at 0:00. You don’t want to miss the verbal pussy-grabbing of the female interviewer.
Start that clip at 0:00. You don’t want to miss the verbal pussy-grabbing of the female interviewer.
open thread
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/03/health/ovarian-tumor-132-pounds-connecticut/index.html
open thread
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/03/health/ovarian-tumor-132-pounds-connecticut/index.html
From the link:
From the link:
Open thread
A truly amazing headline in my local paper today:
Doesn’t your heart just bleed?
Open thread
A truly amazing headline in my local paper today:
Doesn’t your heart just bleed?
Trump appoints Dr Oz to the Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition.
if only the liberals would stop forcing Trump to pick his celebrity and charlatan buddies.
bad liberals. bad.
Trump appoints Dr Oz to the Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition.
if only the liberals would stop forcing Trump to pick his celebrity and charlatan buddies.
bad liberals. bad.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/memo-to-trump-defy-robert-mueller/
Lock and load, Buchanan, because you will have too.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/memo-to-trump-defy-robert-mueller/
Lock and load, Buchanan, because you will have too.
Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his malevolent minions.
Buke’s still doing the alliteration thing.
Doesn’t bode well, Agnew ended up resigning.
Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his malevolent minions.
Buke’s still doing the alliteration thing.
Doesn’t bode well, Agnew ended up resigning.
More from Buchanan:
This is the terrain on which Trump can win: an us-vs-them fight, before Congress and country, where not only the alleged crimes of Trump are aired but also the actual crimes committed to destroy him and to overturn his victory.
Trump is a nationalist who puts America first both in trade and securing her frontiers against an historic invasion from the South. If he is overthrown, and the agenda for which America voted is trashed as well, it may be Middle America in the streets this time.
The culture warrior, to the bitter end.
This is what Buchanan has been dreaming of for forty freaking years. Violence in the street.
Be careful what you wish for, Pat.
More freaking people – 10 million more – voted against Trump than voted for him. Every one of the folks who voted against Trump is an American. More than a few of us are sick of being threatened by the likes of Patrick Buchanan.
If he wants a fight, he’ll get a fight. He’ll lose.
More from Buchanan:
This is the terrain on which Trump can win: an us-vs-them fight, before Congress and country, where not only the alleged crimes of Trump are aired but also the actual crimes committed to destroy him and to overturn his victory.
Trump is a nationalist who puts America first both in trade and securing her frontiers against an historic invasion from the South. If he is overthrown, and the agenda for which America voted is trashed as well, it may be Middle America in the streets this time.
The culture warrior, to the bitter end.
This is what Buchanan has been dreaming of for forty freaking years. Violence in the street.
Be careful what you wish for, Pat.
More freaking people – 10 million more – voted against Trump than voted for him. Every one of the folks who voted against Trump is an American. More than a few of us are sick of being threatened by the likes of Patrick Buchanan.
If he wants a fight, he’ll get a fight. He’ll lose.
If he wants a fight, he’ll get a fight. He’ll lose.
I’m with you, at least with hope.
If he wants a fight, he’ll get a fight. He’ll lose.
I’m with you, at least with hope.
What I think the Buchanans of the world miss is this.
Yes, their fans have more guns. At least currently. A lot more. BUT (as far as I can see) those guys are not, over all, marvels of enormous competency. Which is to say, if they start a fight, they will likely win the initial battles — having more firepower can do that. But once the rest of us get rolling, that will change.
The obvious analogy would be WW II. In 1941, notwithstanding the whole Arsenal of Democracy thing, the US was a great economic power but not a great military one. However once our nose got rubbed in the fact that we couldn’t just stand back and ignore the fight? Neither Japan (even with Chinese factories) nor Germany had a prayer of fielding a military machine that could stand up to us. (And that’s aside from the US having a bigger population to draw on than either or both of them.)
Same with the NRA and other gun nuts. (Not to say that all the fans of Buchanan et al. are gun nuts, of course.) Do I think the rest of the country will get guns? Yeah. Do I think that’s how we will win? Probably not. If you’ve got a huge advantage in educated (especially science and technology educated) people, you can innovate a lot of new and nasty weapons that put guns in the shade.
What I think the Buchanans of the world miss is this.
Yes, their fans have more guns. At least currently. A lot more. BUT (as far as I can see) those guys are not, over all, marvels of enormous competency. Which is to say, if they start a fight, they will likely win the initial battles — having more firepower can do that. But once the rest of us get rolling, that will change.
The obvious analogy would be WW II. In 1941, notwithstanding the whole Arsenal of Democracy thing, the US was a great economic power but not a great military one. However once our nose got rubbed in the fact that we couldn’t just stand back and ignore the fight? Neither Japan (even with Chinese factories) nor Germany had a prayer of fielding a military machine that could stand up to us. (And that’s aside from the US having a bigger population to draw on than either or both of them.)
Same with the NRA and other gun nuts. (Not to say that all the fans of Buchanan et al. are gun nuts, of course.) Do I think the rest of the country will get guns? Yeah. Do I think that’s how we will win? Probably not. If you’ve got a huge advantage in educated (especially science and technology educated) people, you can innovate a lot of new and nasty weapons that put guns in the shade.
I don’t think Buchanan is a big gun guy. He likes punch-ups.
I don’t think Buchanan is a big gun guy. He likes punch-ups.
If it comes to actual shooting between the Trump-Buchanan-LaPierre Brigade and the rest of us, which side can we expect Marty to be on? How about McKinney? I doubt we can count on Brett Bellmore, but I suppose anything is possible.
–TP
If it comes to actual shooting between the Trump-Buchanan-LaPierre Brigade and the rest of us, which side can we expect Marty to be on? How about McKinney? I doubt we can count on Brett Bellmore, but I suppose anything is possible.
–TP
https://www.facebook.com/AmericaFirstNetwork/videos/1898041796935789/
https://www.facebook.com/AmericaFirstNetwork/videos/1898041796935789/
I really hope you all will click that link. It isn’t a parody. Seriously, it isn’t. I can’t bring myself to watch more than a minute or two but that had me in stitches.
I really hope you all will click that link. It isn’t a parody. Seriously, it isn’t. I can’t bring myself to watch more than a minute or two but that had me in stitches.
This is the most ridiculous childish discussion I have ever read. If there’s shooting in the streets I will be on my side. Protecting my family from any moron stupid enough to threaten them.
Its not like there will be al Trump brigade and a Clinton brigade. Anarchy and chaos are what y’all are talking about.
I pay less attention to Buchanan than Colbert, but they are both proselytizing for the same war.
You’ve picked your side, just don’t fing cross me.
No one wins that war.
This is the most ridiculous childish discussion I have ever read. If there’s shooting in the streets I will be on my side. Protecting my family from any moron stupid enough to threaten them.
Its not like there will be al Trump brigade and a Clinton brigade. Anarchy and chaos are what y’all are talking about.
I pay less attention to Buchanan than Colbert, but they are both proselytizing for the same war.
You’ve picked your side, just don’t fing cross me.
No one wins that war.
Marty is absolutely right — nobody wins that war.
But isn’t it interesting that the one group that might start it is the one which would lose it?
P.S. Maybe I just haven’t been paying attention. But I haven’t seen any sign of Colbert proselytizing for a war. Any war. Perhaps there’s a YouTube of him doing so…?
Marty is absolutely right — nobody wins that war.
But isn’t it interesting that the one group that might start it is the one which would lose it?
P.S. Maybe I just haven’t been paying attention. But I haven’t seen any sign of Colbert proselytizing for a war. Any war. Perhaps there’s a YouTube of him doing so…?
Marty, in what appears to be a medium dudgeon:
It’s hard to parse Marty’s grammar at times, but I suspect that the war “no one wins” is any war on Marty or his family. Be very afraid, libruls who might be thinking of forcing health insurance on Marty’s kin by force.
In any case, Marty has answered my question. He’s neither on the side of fascist nationalists nor of their possible targets. Useful intelligence.
–TP
Marty, in what appears to be a medium dudgeon:
It’s hard to parse Marty’s grammar at times, but I suspect that the war “no one wins” is any war on Marty or his family. Be very afraid, libruls who might be thinking of forcing health insurance on Marty’s kin by force.
In any case, Marty has answered my question. He’s neither on the side of fascist nationalists nor of their possible targets. Useful intelligence.
–TP
This is the most ridiculous childish discussion I have ever read.
the topic is buchanan, it comes with the territory.
there are lots of folks who nurture a desire for political dialog to devolve into violence. i don’t think they’re watching colbert. i don’t think any of them are commenting here.
not even the count.
buchanan’s a bully, always has been. a bully with his fists when he was young, a bully with his pen now. bullies piss me off. that’s pretty much it.
i don’t have to get into fights with buchanan, he’ll “lose the war” because nobody will show up. because he’s a bully and an ass and he’s not worth anyone’s time. he’ll “lose the war” because nobody wants to live in the world he desires except people like him, and they are not of sufficient quantity to prevail and not of sufficient quality to persuade anyone else of the virtue of their point of view.
he’ll lose the war because he’s a loser.
This is the most ridiculous childish discussion I have ever read.
the topic is buchanan, it comes with the territory.
there are lots of folks who nurture a desire for political dialog to devolve into violence. i don’t think they’re watching colbert. i don’t think any of them are commenting here.
not even the count.
buchanan’s a bully, always has been. a bully with his fists when he was young, a bully with his pen now. bullies piss me off. that’s pretty much it.
i don’t have to get into fights with buchanan, he’ll “lose the war” because nobody will show up. because he’s a bully and an ass and he’s not worth anyone’s time. he’ll “lose the war” because nobody wants to live in the world he desires except people like him, and they are not of sufficient quantity to prevail and not of sufficient quality to persuade anyone else of the virtue of their point of view.
he’ll lose the war because he’s a loser.
“i don’t think any of them are commenting here.”
You do actually read the comments here, right? It’s become a staple conversation.
“i don’t think any of them are commenting here.”
You do actually read the comments here, right? It’s become a staple conversation.
If you are going to read the American Conservative, there are infinitely better articles than Buchanan in one of his street fighting moods.
This, for instance—
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/afghan-futility-and-the-not-so-curious-case-of-lieutenant-jordan-rich/
If you are going to read the American Conservative, there are infinitely better articles than Buchanan in one of his street fighting moods.
This, for instance—
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/afghan-futility-and-the-not-so-curious-case-of-lieutenant-jordan-rich/
Currently at least repression by prosecutors is a more pressing issue than Pat Buchanan’s street war fantasies.
https://shadowproof.com/2018/05/04/members-newsletter-preview-tidy-way-smother-movements/
Currently at least repression by prosecutors is a more pressing issue than Pat Buchanan’s street war fantasies.
https://shadowproof.com/2018/05/04/members-newsletter-preview-tidy-way-smother-movements/
It’s become a staple conversation
if you keep telling people you’re going to shoot them for a decade or two, some of them are going to wonder if there’s something to it.
plus, every now and then, somebody actually does get shot or otherwise killed.
there are probably a couple of hundred private armies in the US. answerable to god knows who. it’s a thing.
so, folks are likely to talk about it.
Buchanan’s full of crap. other folks seem more serious. maybe it’s just dress up. maybe it’s not.
If you are going to read the American Conservative
no thanks.
It’s become a staple conversation
if you keep telling people you’re going to shoot them for a decade or two, some of them are going to wonder if there’s something to it.
plus, every now and then, somebody actually does get shot or otherwise killed.
there are probably a couple of hundred private armies in the US. answerable to god knows who. it’s a thing.
so, folks are likely to talk about it.
Buchanan’s full of crap. other folks seem more serious. maybe it’s just dress up. maybe it’s not.
If you are going to read the American Conservative
no thanks.
“It’s become a staple conversation.”
I learnt it from the Parking Meter In Chief, among others:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=donald+trump+egging+his+fans+on+to+violence+at+campaign+rallies
The only difference between asshat mp and asshat me for Marty is that the ass under mp’s hat is spreading conservative principles throughout the land, so mp gets a silent pass when he threatens to kick physical ass.
Pass me the stapler.
Donald Johnson is, as usual, correct. There are bigger fish to fry.
Where I differ with Donald is that every time we get closer to an actual fish fry, the conservative movement has in place a ready-made Nation-wide militia of threatening louts, in and out of the NRA, who point out that they just might have to shoot all of us with the bullets left over after Hillary Clinton takes one for the team.
I read nearly every op piece daily at The American Conservative.
I’ve had plenty of comments, f-word free, expunged from comment sections following Dreher’s posts (he likes Walker Percy, too, so there is that) when HE condemns violence, more than one time when I’ve referred him to Buchanan’s lock and load past (yeah, pugilism is buch’s thing; he and his elite snowflake snowfake confederate Scots-Irish brothers used to kick ass at parties and on the sidewalks of flyover Washington D.C. when he was a young man. For some reason, the victims seemed to be Jewish more often than not, way before Nixon tapped him, or was it the other way round, to look into Jewish influence in the press and gummint. His sister, Bay, was known for her powerful roundhouse sucker punches and .. I haven’t confirmed this rumor … her biting).
The other week, a republican legislator in Colorado proposed legislation to allow the State, that entity conservatives spit on except when it is arresting their enemies, to arrest and jail for six months school teachers for exercising their First Amendment rights in demonstrations and strikes.
I thought to myself, well OK, finally, a legitimate reason for teachers to be armed.
The State arms the murderers of them and their students, in schools, and I’m sure the same ilk will be cheering the “authorities” on when the teachers are hauled off to jail for daring to call for tax increases and increased school funding when the latter are off school grounds.
If the Bundy’s got away with it, why not first-grade teachers?
Conservatives CAN win me over on occasion.
“It’s become a staple conversation.”
I learnt it from the Parking Meter In Chief, among others:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=donald+trump+egging+his+fans+on+to+violence+at+campaign+rallies
The only difference between asshat mp and asshat me for Marty is that the ass under mp’s hat is spreading conservative principles throughout the land, so mp gets a silent pass when he threatens to kick physical ass.
Pass me the stapler.
Donald Johnson is, as usual, correct. There are bigger fish to fry.
Where I differ with Donald is that every time we get closer to an actual fish fry, the conservative movement has in place a ready-made Nation-wide militia of threatening louts, in and out of the NRA, who point out that they just might have to shoot all of us with the bullets left over after Hillary Clinton takes one for the team.
I read nearly every op piece daily at The American Conservative.
I’ve had plenty of comments, f-word free, expunged from comment sections following Dreher’s posts (he likes Walker Percy, too, so there is that) when HE condemns violence, more than one time when I’ve referred him to Buchanan’s lock and load past (yeah, pugilism is buch’s thing; he and his elite snowflake snowfake confederate Scots-Irish brothers used to kick ass at parties and on the sidewalks of flyover Washington D.C. when he was a young man. For some reason, the victims seemed to be Jewish more often than not, way before Nixon tapped him, or was it the other way round, to look into Jewish influence in the press and gummint. His sister, Bay, was known for her powerful roundhouse sucker punches and .. I haven’t confirmed this rumor … her biting).
The other week, a republican legislator in Colorado proposed legislation to allow the State, that entity conservatives spit on except when it is arresting their enemies, to arrest and jail for six months school teachers for exercising their First Amendment rights in demonstrations and strikes.
I thought to myself, well OK, finally, a legitimate reason for teachers to be armed.
The State arms the murderers of them and their students, in schools, and I’m sure the same ilk will be cheering the “authorities” on when the teachers are hauled off to jail for daring to call for tax increases and increased school funding when the latter are off school grounds.
If the Bundy’s got away with it, why not first-grade teachers?
Conservatives CAN win me over on occasion.
If the Bundy’s got away with it, why not first-grade teachers?
long as those teachers aren’t black women…
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/marissa-alexander-released-stand-your-ground.html
If the Bundy’s got away with it, why not first-grade teachers?
long as those teachers aren’t black women…
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/marissa-alexander-released-stand-your-ground.html
If people really want gun regulation, all they have to do is arm black and brown people in large numbers.
Or even not-so-large numbers.
I’m not recommending it, because folks will end up dead, and most of them will probably be black and brown people.
I’m just making an observation based on the historical record.
As far as the “staple conversation”, we have Oath Keepers showing up at Ferguson to “help protect people’s property”, we have members of the PA and NY Light Foot Militia showing up at Charlottesville on a free-lance basis to “help protect 1st A rights”. We have god knows what collection of free-lance vigilantes showing up to protect Cliven Bundy’s god-given rights to let his cows graze on public land for free, and then again to protect his kid’s god-given rights to sh*t all over the visitor parking lot in Malheur.
Off the top of my head.
So yeah, it’s chaotic. WTF do you do if you’re a cop in a situation like Ferguson or Charlottesville, and a bunch of guys in camo with semi-automatic weapons show up and declare “we got this”?
And those are just the organized and semi-organized outfits, and the outfits that don’t have an explicitly racist or criminal agenda. There are folks out there that do have those agendas.
I’m unlikely to be in any danger here in my nice little suburban ranch house. Other folks aren’t so lucky. I might not be so lucky if I turn out to participate in things like the Women’s March, or the Boston Free Speech thing. Those were uneventful, it doesn’t always play out that way.
There are, at this point, tens of thousands of folks running around as members of one free-lance militia or another. There are another tens of thousands of folks who have serious arsenals sitting out in the garage. All of them have been imbibing the conservative mantra of “government is your enemy” for the last 40 years.
Are there any other countries that claim to have functioning governments that allow private armies to ammo up and train on the weekend? Unanswerable to any civil authority? Any other places that countenance threats of insurrection — “2nd Amendment solutions — as a reasonable political position, one that can be espoused by candidates for national public office?
So yes, a topic of conversation.
If people really want gun regulation, all they have to do is arm black and brown people in large numbers.
Or even not-so-large numbers.
I’m not recommending it, because folks will end up dead, and most of them will probably be black and brown people.
I’m just making an observation based on the historical record.
As far as the “staple conversation”, we have Oath Keepers showing up at Ferguson to “help protect people’s property”, we have members of the PA and NY Light Foot Militia showing up at Charlottesville on a free-lance basis to “help protect 1st A rights”. We have god knows what collection of free-lance vigilantes showing up to protect Cliven Bundy’s god-given rights to let his cows graze on public land for free, and then again to protect his kid’s god-given rights to sh*t all over the visitor parking lot in Malheur.
Off the top of my head.
So yeah, it’s chaotic. WTF do you do if you’re a cop in a situation like Ferguson or Charlottesville, and a bunch of guys in camo with semi-automatic weapons show up and declare “we got this”?
And those are just the organized and semi-organized outfits, and the outfits that don’t have an explicitly racist or criminal agenda. There are folks out there that do have those agendas.
I’m unlikely to be in any danger here in my nice little suburban ranch house. Other folks aren’t so lucky. I might not be so lucky if I turn out to participate in things like the Women’s March, or the Boston Free Speech thing. Those were uneventful, it doesn’t always play out that way.
There are, at this point, tens of thousands of folks running around as members of one free-lance militia or another. There are another tens of thousands of folks who have serious arsenals sitting out in the garage. All of them have been imbibing the conservative mantra of “government is your enemy” for the last 40 years.
Are there any other countries that claim to have functioning governments that allow private armies to ammo up and train on the weekend? Unanswerable to any civil authority? Any other places that countenance threats of insurrection — “2nd Amendment solutions — as a reasonable political position, one that can be espoused by candidates for national public office?
So yes, a topic of conversation.
ok, so, to be fair, I read the TAC piece Donald linked to. I also read the Shadowproof piece.
There was nothing in either piece that was anything like news to me.
I give TAC credit for in general being a conservative counter to the more common neo-con impulse to blow everything the fuck up and call it a better world. The fact that that is an achievement of note, at all, is in itself a pitiable disgrace.
And hell yeah, the government is going to do whatever they can within the law, and without the law to the degree that they can get away with it, to limit and suppress dissent. The only solution to that that I’m aware of is to not put up with it. Show up and be loud. If being loud ain’t your thing, just show up, it’ll do.
ok, so, to be fair, I read the TAC piece Donald linked to. I also read the Shadowproof piece.
There was nothing in either piece that was anything like news to me.
I give TAC credit for in general being a conservative counter to the more common neo-con impulse to blow everything the fuck up and call it a better world. The fact that that is an achievement of note, at all, is in itself a pitiable disgrace.
And hell yeah, the government is going to do whatever they can within the law, and without the law to the degree that they can get away with it, to limit and suppress dissent. The only solution to that that I’m aware of is to not put up with it. Show up and be loud. If being loud ain’t your thing, just show up, it’ll do.
Unfortunately, who reports an armed confrontation incident to the police first can make a big difference as to who is considered the victim and who goes to jail.
“Siwatu-Salama Ra is a 26-year-old black mother who watched in horror as an angry assailant—a neighbor with whom Ra had a dispute—deliberately crashed her vehicle into Ra’s car while Ra’s two-year-old daughter was playing inside. Ra removed her unloaded, legally purchased handgun from the glove box and brandished it, scaring the neighbor off.”
Black Gun Owner Will Give Birth in Prison After Trying to Protect 2-Year-Old Daughter from Assailant: Siwatu-Salama Ra used a legally purchased firearm to protect her family. She was sentenced to 2 years in prison.
Unfortunately, who reports an armed confrontation incident to the police first can make a big difference as to who is considered the victim and who goes to jail.
“Siwatu-Salama Ra is a 26-year-old black mother who watched in horror as an angry assailant—a neighbor with whom Ra had a dispute—deliberately crashed her vehicle into Ra’s car while Ra’s two-year-old daughter was playing inside. Ra removed her unloaded, legally purchased handgun from the glove box and brandished it, scaring the neighbor off.”
Black Gun Owner Will Give Birth in Prison After Trying to Protect 2-Year-Old Daughter from Assailant: Siwatu-Salama Ra used a legally purchased firearm to protect her family. She was sentenced to 2 years in prison.
MAGA, the violent republican way:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-economy-crashing-quote/
MAGA, the violent republican way:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-economy-crashing-quote/
Wonkie: Thanks for that amazing video. I did watch it all the way through. Expected to hate the politics, and I did. Expected that they couldn’t write lyrics that would rhyme OR scan, and I was correct.
What I didn’t expect, and almost prevented me from finishing, was that they could not SING IN TUNE! Nigh on to drove me crazy.
Wonkie: Thanks for that amazing video. I did watch it all the way through. Expected to hate the politics, and I did. Expected that they couldn’t write lyrics that would rhyme OR scan, and I was correct.
What I didn’t expect, and almost prevented me from finishing, was that they could not SING IN TUNE! Nigh on to drove me crazy.
It appears that Trump found an interesting way to scuttle the Iran deal.
It appears that Trump found an interesting way to scuttle the Iran deal.
Dr Ngo, what I found fascinating was the vision of TRump as the Dear Leader who wi going to save the good people from evil. I come to the conclusion that R voters believe in fairy tales–they are the scared little princesses who are shaking in their shoes, while waiting for the heor to sweep in an d rescue them from the dragon or the Big Bad Wolf or whatever. Repubican poliicians use fear as their primary appeal–and Icna think of a word that describes chronically fearfu people and starts with “c”. Yes, conservative, but there’s another one.
Dr Ngo, what I found fascinating was the vision of TRump as the Dear Leader who wi going to save the good people from evil. I come to the conclusion that R voters believe in fairy tales–they are the scared little princesses who are shaking in their shoes, while waiting for the heor to sweep in an d rescue them from the dragon or the Big Bad Wolf or whatever. Repubican poliicians use fear as their primary appeal–and Icna think of a word that describes chronically fearfu people and starts with “c”. Yes, conservative, but there’s another one.
re sapient’s link:
John McCain said the other day he doesn’t want mp attending his funeral.
If McCain’s subsidized socialist medical care is up to snuff, and let’s hope it is, maybe McCain can attend mp’s final send off by firing squad and then attend his buddy Pence’s funeral too, after the American people garrote the latter as well.
I can’t imagine how anti-Semite Pat Buchanan, hater of the Jewish State of Israel, is going to square this news of mp’s yet further collusion with foreign governments’ black ops to destroy America, its government, and those who serve it, with his protective authoritarian sentiments regarding his fellow loutish right-wing republican spawn, Donald J mp, but maybe they can talk it over with Netanyahu just before the three of them … Putin will be slaughtered too in a separate operation … are shot through their black pig conservative hearts by the tens of millions of true American and Israeli patriots who will volunteer to serve on THEIR firing squads.
In related news, mp’s consigliere’s client and soiree guests manifests read like the list of characters provided on the first several frontice pages of a Dostoyevsky novel so the reader can keep track:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/us-better-citibank
It’s Goodfellas all the way down, sans the marinara:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOaV06ruMqg
You like Ray Liotta?
Republicans, you wrecked our home(land), all of you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chC8SFRzQbg
re sapient’s link:
John McCain said the other day he doesn’t want mp attending his funeral.
If McCain’s subsidized socialist medical care is up to snuff, and let’s hope it is, maybe McCain can attend mp’s final send off by firing squad and then attend his buddy Pence’s funeral too, after the American people garrote the latter as well.
I can’t imagine how anti-Semite Pat Buchanan, hater of the Jewish State of Israel, is going to square this news of mp’s yet further collusion with foreign governments’ black ops to destroy America, its government, and those who serve it, with his protective authoritarian sentiments regarding his fellow loutish right-wing republican spawn, Donald J mp, but maybe they can talk it over with Netanyahu just before the three of them … Putin will be slaughtered too in a separate operation … are shot through their black pig conservative hearts by the tens of millions of true American and Israeli patriots who will volunteer to serve on THEIR firing squads.
In related news, mp’s consigliere’s client and soiree guests manifests read like the list of characters provided on the first several frontice pages of a Dostoyevsky novel so the reader can keep track:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/us-better-citibank
It’s Goodfellas all the way down, sans the marinara:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOaV06ruMqg
You like Ray Liotta?
Republicans, you wrecked our home(land), all of you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chC8SFRzQbg
Cohen’s alma mater:
http://fortune.com/2018/05/05/michael-cohen-cooley-worst-law-school-in-america/
Only the best.
More:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/05/using-the-legal-process-to-silence-critics
Yes, I wanted all of this to happen.
I’ve been planning this attack on America since I was a wee lad.
I martialed the worst, beguiling, corrupt, dumbest vermin I could find and infiltrated the republican party with them.
You ilk bought a cake from a Christian white evangelical and Stormy Daniels jumped out of it and played hide the winky with your noses and you loved it.
I arranged all of that.
So have a little respect, and comment here in Russian, our mother tongue, from now on.
Cohen’s alma mater:
http://fortune.com/2018/05/05/michael-cohen-cooley-worst-law-school-in-america/
Only the best.
More:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/05/using-the-legal-process-to-silence-critics
Yes, I wanted all of this to happen.
I’ve been planning this attack on America since I was a wee lad.
I martialed the worst, beguiling, corrupt, dumbest vermin I could find and infiltrated the republican party with them.
You ilk bought a cake from a Christian white evangelical and Stormy Daniels jumped out of it and played hide the winky with your noses and you loved it.
I arranged all of that.
So have a little respect, and comment here in Russian, our mother tongue, from now on.
конечно, да
Cut and paste makes this easy.
конечно, да
Cut and paste makes this easy.
милый!
Let’s here it for technology
милый!
Let’s here it for technology
Let’s hear it for spelling too 🙂
–TP
Let’s hear it for spelling too 🙂
–TP
That looks like it might be our Treasury Secretary’s last name, but if so the ancestor who got named that didn’t pass the genes on to Steven.
That looks like it might be our Treasury Secretary’s last name, but if so the ancestor who got named that didn’t pass the genes on to Steven.
On the American Conservative, I would recommend it as a source of both great articles and terrible ones and maybe the widest range of commenters I see anywhere, for better or worse. You have some commenters who clearly long for death squads, for instance. White nationalism too. But also people who are normal conservatives, moderates, centrist liberal, far left, Marxist, and sometimes just confusing. Also some people who I think voted for Trump genuinely thinking he was serious about condemning our interventions and who now realize they were suckered and are mad. All types. Well, more types than I have encountered elsewhere in one spot.
Different topic. Collusion of Trump, but with Israel, to gather dirt on advocates of the Iran deal. Will be interesting to see if this gets much play here.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/05/trump-team-hired-spy-firm-dirty-ops-iran-nuclear-deal?__twitter_impression=true
On the American Conservative, I would recommend it as a source of both great articles and terrible ones and maybe the widest range of commenters I see anywhere, for better or worse. You have some commenters who clearly long for death squads, for instance. White nationalism too. But also people who are normal conservatives, moderates, centrist liberal, far left, Marxist, and sometimes just confusing. Also some people who I think voted for Trump genuinely thinking he was serious about condemning our interventions and who now realize they were suckered and are mad. All types. Well, more types than I have encountered elsewhere in one spot.
Different topic. Collusion of Trump, but with Israel, to gather dirt on advocates of the Iran deal. Will be interesting to see if this gets much play here.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/05/trump-team-hired-spy-firm-dirty-ops-iran-nuclear-deal?__twitter_impression=true
Will be interesting to see if this gets much play here.
By ‘here’, where do you mean?
TPM has some interesting stuff on that
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/stunning-developments-on-trump-black-ops
Will be interesting to see if this gets much play here.
By ‘here’, where do you mean?
TPM has some interesting stuff on that
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/stunning-developments-on-trump-black-ops
I meant the US. Where it is easy to demonize the Russians and those who collude with them or are falsely accused of passing in Russian propaganda. That kind of demonizing has a long tradition in American politics. But demonizing people who collude with Israelis is harder, since you have politicians in both parties bowing down to them. One of Flynn’s meetings with the Russian ambassador was to persuade him to support Israel against Obama in a settlement vote. I could imagine a parallel universe where people pointed out the collusion there incessantly and how gunning down unarmed protestors is not self defense but the Trumpies say it is and people diving into Trump family connections in that direction, but it hasn’t happened much.
You even have people kowtowing to the Saudi monarchy and hardly anyone likes those guys unless they are paid to. Famine death tolls in Yemen just last year are probably in the 50,000 range. Actual collusion with crimes against humanity. People obsess over collusion regarding dirty politics when right out in the open we collude on something that we call genocide when Assad does it. I am not the only person who thinks our political squabbles show deeply fracked up priorities. Maybe people in Yemen should get a nuclear deterrent.
But anyway, a New Yorker piece—
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/israeli-operatives-that-aided-harvey-weinstein-collected-information-on-former-obama-administration-officials
I was and am curious to see the mileage this story gets. What if Trump hired a Russian firm composed of ex KGB agents to gather dirt on people who supported sanctions on Russia? Well, he apparently did, except it was Israelis and the nuclear deal with Iran. Interesting test case.
I meant the US. Where it is easy to demonize the Russians and those who collude with them or are falsely accused of passing in Russian propaganda. That kind of demonizing has a long tradition in American politics. But demonizing people who collude with Israelis is harder, since you have politicians in both parties bowing down to them. One of Flynn’s meetings with the Russian ambassador was to persuade him to support Israel against Obama in a settlement vote. I could imagine a parallel universe where people pointed out the collusion there incessantly and how gunning down unarmed protestors is not self defense but the Trumpies say it is and people diving into Trump family connections in that direction, but it hasn’t happened much.
You even have people kowtowing to the Saudi monarchy and hardly anyone likes those guys unless they are paid to. Famine death tolls in Yemen just last year are probably in the 50,000 range. Actual collusion with crimes against humanity. People obsess over collusion regarding dirty politics when right out in the open we collude on something that we call genocide when Assad does it. I am not the only person who thinks our political squabbles show deeply fracked up priorities. Maybe people in Yemen should get a nuclear deterrent.
But anyway, a New Yorker piece—
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/israeli-operatives-that-aided-harvey-weinstein-collected-information-on-former-obama-administration-officials
I was and am curious to see the mileage this story gets. What if Trump hired a Russian firm composed of ex KGB agents to gather dirt on people who supported sanctions on Russia? Well, he apparently did, except it was Israelis and the nuclear deal with Iran. Interesting test case.
I’m the lunatic working on a partition plan, and even I think a “shooting war” is silly. A million uniformed cops are not going to roll over, or pick sides, or be the first to go. Ditto for the military.
Just as advice, if (to pick an example) Ohio’s malcontents decide they want to do something about Cleveland, the answer is not to load up the pickups and head into town for some shooting. The answer is to pick out the right half-dozen major substations and take out the relatively fragile transformers there. W/o electricity, Cleveland is uninhabitable.
I expect the NSA to come calling at my house some day, due to my unfortunate tendency to occasionally use the satellite view on Google Maps to trace the high voltage lines from big generating plants to substations around large metro areas, and then look at the roads in the vicinity…
I’m the lunatic working on a partition plan, and even I think a “shooting war” is silly. A million uniformed cops are not going to roll over, or pick sides, or be the first to go. Ditto for the military.
Just as advice, if (to pick an example) Ohio’s malcontents decide they want to do something about Cleveland, the answer is not to load up the pickups and head into town for some shooting. The answer is to pick out the right half-dozen major substations and take out the relatively fragile transformers there. W/o electricity, Cleveland is uninhabitable.
I expect the NSA to come calling at my house some day, due to my unfortunate tendency to occasionally use the satellite view on Google Maps to trace the high voltage lines from big generating plants to substations around large metro areas, and then look at the roads in the vicinity…
even I think a “shooting war” is silly
Silly, not silly, same-same to me.
It’s really easy, by which I mean trivially easy, by which I mean requiring less effort than it takes to make a sandwich, to find people whose fundamental rhetorical stance in matters political is “well then we’re gonna start shooting, and we have all the guns you stupid libtards!”
Most, by which I mean 99% plus, of those people aren’t going to shoot anyone. The occasional nutter will, and that’s still a number big enough to take seriously. But there isn’t likely to be widespread warfare.
It’s just really freaking annoying, by which I mean utterly unacceptable, to constantly be threatened with violence by your fucking neighbors.
How would this fly, do you think:
“If you put a Trump sign on your lawn, I’m going to burn your house down! And I have matches!!”
Or:
“If you have a Trump bumper sticker, I’m gonna run right off the road into a ditch!”
Great ice-breakers!! Right?
And, of course, now let’s have a conversation. Let’s “dialog” and “find common ground”.
Bugger that.
I’m not talking to people who threaten to kill me, even if they are full of crap. Not only am I not talking to them, I’m not giving them a freaking inch.
The country doesn’t belong to them. They’re not patriots, they’re flaming belligerent assholes. They’re not heroes, they’re fearful children.
They need to grow the f up.
And all of that said, there actually are a couple hundred private armies, answerable to no civil authority, running around on a variety of self-appointed missions. That ain’t good.
even I think a “shooting war” is silly
Silly, not silly, same-same to me.
It’s really easy, by which I mean trivially easy, by which I mean requiring less effort than it takes to make a sandwich, to find people whose fundamental rhetorical stance in matters political is “well then we’re gonna start shooting, and we have all the guns you stupid libtards!”
Most, by which I mean 99% plus, of those people aren’t going to shoot anyone. The occasional nutter will, and that’s still a number big enough to take seriously. But there isn’t likely to be widespread warfare.
It’s just really freaking annoying, by which I mean utterly unacceptable, to constantly be threatened with violence by your fucking neighbors.
How would this fly, do you think:
“If you put a Trump sign on your lawn, I’m going to burn your house down! And I have matches!!”
Or:
“If you have a Trump bumper sticker, I’m gonna run right off the road into a ditch!”
Great ice-breakers!! Right?
And, of course, now let’s have a conversation. Let’s “dialog” and “find common ground”.
Bugger that.
I’m not talking to people who threaten to kill me, even if they are full of crap. Not only am I not talking to them, I’m not giving them a freaking inch.
The country doesn’t belong to them. They’re not patriots, they’re flaming belligerent assholes. They’re not heroes, they’re fearful children.
They need to grow the f up.
And all of that said, there actually are a couple hundred private armies, answerable to no civil authority, running around on a variety of self-appointed missions. That ain’t good.
Where it is easy to demonize the Russians and those who collude with them or are falsely accused of passing in Russian propaganda. That kind of demonizing has a long tradition in American politics. But demonizing people who collude with Israelis is harder, since you have politicians in both parties bowing down to them.
Donald, forgive me please if this has been asked and answered before (I’m rather unwell, and can’t remember), but is it your view that “the Russians”, which is to say the Putin regime, are unfairly demonised? The word “demonised” suggests this. I think you know that I pretty much agree with your stance on the Israelis, and the American politicians who unquestioningly support them, so I hope you will take this question in the (absolutely non-snarky) spirit in which it is meant.
Where it is easy to demonize the Russians and those who collude with them or are falsely accused of passing in Russian propaganda. That kind of demonizing has a long tradition in American politics. But demonizing people who collude with Israelis is harder, since you have politicians in both parties bowing down to them.
Donald, forgive me please if this has been asked and answered before (I’m rather unwell, and can’t remember), but is it your view that “the Russians”, which is to say the Putin regime, are unfairly demonised? The word “demonised” suggests this. I think you know that I pretty much agree with your stance on the Israelis, and the American politicians who unquestioningly support them, so I hope you will take this question in the (absolutely non-snarky) spirit in which it is meant.
And all of that said, there actually are a couple hundred private armies, answerable to no civil authority, running around on a variety of self-appointed missions.
And all of that said, there actually are a couple hundred private armies, answerable to no civil authority, running around on a variety of self-appointed missions.
“which side can we expect Marty to be on? How about McKinney?”
There’s no doubt. They’ll be on the side patriots are aiming at.
“which side can we expect Marty to be on? How about McKinney?”
There’s no doubt. They’ll be on the side patriots are aiming at.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/armed-militia-groups-surging-across-nation
The scariest thing for me is that cops, former and current, are joining these groups, along with military veterans who are used to the idea of shooting Muslims.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/armed-militia-groups-surging-across-nation
The scariest thing for me is that cops, former and current, are joining these groups, along with military veterans who are used to the idea of shooting Muslims.
GftNC
I think the Russians are guilty of war crimes in Syria comparable to our own. I think their role in the Ukraine is probably immoral, but I think we probably get a whitewashed view of our side there. I think the Russians intervened in the election, but on the scale of interventionist crimes that was a misdemeanor. And I think liberals in many cases are acting like hysterics in the Cold War. If people were really interested in collusion and political corruption and its consequences Russiagate would be way down on the list.
GftNC
I think the Russians are guilty of war crimes in Syria comparable to our own. I think their role in the Ukraine is probably immoral, but I think we probably get a whitewashed view of our side there. I think the Russians intervened in the election, but on the scale of interventionist crimes that was a misdemeanor. And I think liberals in many cases are acting like hysterics in the Cold War. If people were really interested in collusion and political corruption and its consequences Russiagate would be way down on the list.
And just after posting my last comment, I see this.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2018/05/us_abortion_clinics_face_surge_of_trespassing_and_blockades
Guess who’s getting in on the action.
And just after posting my last comment, I see this.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2018/05/us_abortion_clinics_face_surge_of_trespassing_and_blockades
Guess who’s getting in on the action.
Open thread, so I am posting a link to a post that is the strongest and most thorough illustration I have ever seen of just how horrible our “ liberal “ media is in its coverage of foreign policy. LJ once invited me to put up a post on why I thought of much press coverage as fake news. I didn’t do it. It would have required a lot of work digging up links and in the end, what I might have written would have been a tenth as good as this—
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/05/remarkable-disappearing-terrorism/
Open thread, so I am posting a link to a post that is the strongest and most thorough illustration I have ever seen of just how horrible our “ liberal “ media is in its coverage of foreign policy. LJ once invited me to put up a post on why I thought of much press coverage as fake news. I didn’t do it. It would have required a lot of work digging up links and in the end, what I might have written would have been a tenth as good as this—
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/05/remarkable-disappearing-terrorism/
W/o electricity, Cleveland is uninhabitable.
So, only marginally worse than the present…
W/o electricity, Cleveland is uninhabitable.
So, only marginally worse than the present…
Thank you Donald. And for completeness’s sake, what do you think of their domestic politics, e.g. treatment of internal critics and dissidents etc?
Thank you Donald. And for completeness’s sake, what do you think of their domestic politics, e.g. treatment of internal critics and dissidents etc?
I think their treatment of dissidents is also bad.
OTOH, I have occasionally read articles or watched YouTube posts from Russia Today. You pretty much have to balance one’s propaganda sources anymore or you get one sided crap.
I think their treatment of dissidents is also bad.
OTOH, I have occasionally read articles or watched YouTube posts from Russia Today. You pretty much have to balance one’s propaganda sources anymore or you get one sided crap.
if (to pick an example) Ohio’s malcontents decide they want to do something about Cleveland, the answer is not to load up the pickups and head into town for some shooting. The answer is to pick out the right half-dozen major substations and take out the relatively fragile transformers there.
It’s probably fortunate that the folks who want to “do something” don’t tend to think in those terms. They want something hands-on. Something that is merely effective? Not so attractive.
if (to pick an example) Ohio’s malcontents decide they want to do something about Cleveland, the answer is not to load up the pickups and head into town for some shooting. The answer is to pick out the right half-dozen major substations and take out the relatively fragile transformers there.
It’s probably fortunate that the folks who want to “do something” don’t tend to think in those terms. They want something hands-on. Something that is merely effective? Not so attractive.
the thing about ‘collusion’ is that it’s not just about the well-documented interference in the 2016 election. it’s about the relationship between Trump and Russia that made Russia feel like it could do what it did, and how that relationship continues to influence Trump’s actions.
Trump has a long history of shady dealings with Ukraine & Russia [some have even gone to court]. Eric Trump once said the Trump org doesn’t need US banks because they get all their cash from Russia. Steve Bannon once said about the Mueller prove “this is all about money laundering”. (Chait)
he’s a crook.
the ‘collusion’ was likely just another set of shady deals between crooks who have been doing business with each other for a long time.
the thing about ‘collusion’ is that it’s not just about the well-documented interference in the 2016 election. it’s about the relationship between Trump and Russia that made Russia feel like it could do what it did, and how that relationship continues to influence Trump’s actions.
Trump has a long history of shady dealings with Ukraine & Russia [some have even gone to court]. Eric Trump once said the Trump org doesn’t need US banks because they get all their cash from Russia. Steve Bannon once said about the Mueller prove “this is all about money laundering”. (Chait)
he’s a crook.
the ‘collusion’ was likely just another set of shady deals between crooks who have been doing business with each other for a long time.
But hsh, how many people are we talking about, though? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? When there have been “actions” in the interior West — the Bundy Ranch, Malheur, the ATV protest thing in Utah — it’s the same people, almost all non-local, and not all that many of them. When invited to such things, most of the organizations go out of their way to say no publicly. I’d be willing to wager that in Colorado, the members of such groups are easily outnumbered by the urban gangs. The larger of the urban gangs are almost certainly better organized nationally, better funded, and can probably call on better heavy weapons.
Not quite to the same degree, but it’s almost like the people who drive through 20 miles of holiday traffic with all the DUI drivers to get to the beach, but worry about being killed by a shark.
But hsh, how many people are we talking about, though? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? When there have been “actions” in the interior West — the Bundy Ranch, Malheur, the ATV protest thing in Utah — it’s the same people, almost all non-local, and not all that many of them. When invited to such things, most of the organizations go out of their way to say no publicly. I’d be willing to wager that in Colorado, the members of such groups are easily outnumbered by the urban gangs. The larger of the urban gangs are almost certainly better organized nationally, better funded, and can probably call on better heavy weapons.
Not quite to the same degree, but it’s almost like the people who drive through 20 miles of holiday traffic with all the DUI drivers to get to the beach, but worry about being killed by a shark.
It’s probably fortunate that the folks who want to “do something” don’t tend to think in those terms. They want something hands-on. Something that is merely effective? Not so attractive.
I have mixed feelings about this. When 9/11 happened, I thought there were lots of ways in which the perps could have done a more thorough, wide-reaching, long-lasting job of causing deep harm to the country, both physically and psychologically and dare I say spiritually (in the broadest sense). Instead they chose the spectacular.
All these years later, I still believe it could easily have been much worse. But since we still haven’t recovered, I don’t feel like there’s much comfort in the what-ifs.
It’s probably fortunate that the folks who want to “do something” don’t tend to think in those terms. They want something hands-on. Something that is merely effective? Not so attractive.
I have mixed feelings about this. When 9/11 happened, I thought there were lots of ways in which the perps could have done a more thorough, wide-reaching, long-lasting job of causing deep harm to the country, both physically and psychologically and dare I say spiritually (in the broadest sense). Instead they chose the spectacular.
All these years later, I still believe it could easily have been much worse. But since we still haven’t recovered, I don’t feel like there’s much comfort in the what-ifs.
You pretty much have to balance one’s propaganda sources anymore or you get one sided crap.
On the other hand, the relative independence of media organisations in, for example, Russia versus the US (since this is the contrast you are keen to make), seems very unbalanced:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia
Of course, if Trump and his merry men had their way, media freedom in the US would also be a thing of the past, but they seem a long distance from having their way. And despite the self-censorship, or bias, in much of the US press (liberal and otherwise), there still seems plenty of opportunity to express dissenting views.
If one insists on drawing equivalences: Trump is a corrupt thug and a gangster (although in all fairness, I have not heard of him having people assassinated). Putin is a corrupt thug and a gangster. But Putin is a more effective one, who has his hands firmly on the levers of state power, kills people at will at home and abroad, suppresses dissent, has been in power for decades and could be for decades yet to come. By contrast, the US still looks reasonably healthy to me. Quite a low bar, I admit.
You pretty much have to balance one’s propaganda sources anymore or you get one sided crap.
On the other hand, the relative independence of media organisations in, for example, Russia versus the US (since this is the contrast you are keen to make), seems very unbalanced:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia
Of course, if Trump and his merry men had their way, media freedom in the US would also be a thing of the past, but they seem a long distance from having their way. And despite the self-censorship, or bias, in much of the US press (liberal and otherwise), there still seems plenty of opportunity to express dissenting views.
If one insists on drawing equivalences: Trump is a corrupt thug and a gangster (although in all fairness, I have not heard of him having people assassinated). Putin is a corrupt thug and a gangster. But Putin is a more effective one, who has his hands firmly on the levers of state power, kills people at will at home and abroad, suppresses dissent, has been in power for decades and could be for decades yet to come. By contrast, the US still looks reasonably healthy to me. Quite a low bar, I admit.
Rudy Giuliani: “I’m talking about the law and the conclusion. The facts, I’m still learning.”
Suggesting he knows that the facts are against him — hence the option to speak without knowing all of them. Reminds me of the thumbnail my uncle (a lawyer, among other things) once gave me:
That’s basically what Rudy is doing: pounding on the table.
Rudy Giuliani: “I’m talking about the law and the conclusion. The facts, I’m still learning.”
Suggesting he knows that the facts are against him — hence the option to speak without knowing all of them. Reminds me of the thumbnail my uncle (a lawyer, among other things) once gave me:
That’s basically what Rudy is doing: pounding on the table.
it’s almost like the people who drive through 20 miles of holiday traffic with all the DUI drivers to get to the beach, but worry about being killed by a shark.
It’s almost like the people who want to participate in the public sphere without wondering if they’re gonna get shot for their trouble.
What a crazy notion.
In Charlottesville, 32 guys from a couple of self-appointed militias in PA and NY showed up. Camo, semi-automatic rifles. Nobody knew who the hell they were or what they were doing there.
They were there to “protect people’s 1st A rights”. Folks had difficulty distinguishing them from Guardsmen. Which is not good. They likely contributed to police reluctance to take a more forceful role in constraining the violence of the day.
32 guys is the better part of an army infantry rifle platoon. Basically, a free-lance rifle platoon showed up, answerable to nobody in particular, and inserted themselves into a violent freaking riot, complicating the public response.
They thought they were helping.
Over the last year and a half, I’ve attended two very large public demonstrations. At one, some of the originally scheduled speakers were folks notorious for violent rhetoric and actions. The KKK announced ahead of time that they would be present, albeit not wearing hoods or carrying burning croses.
In situations like that, I’d like to know who the freaking cops are. I don’t want a couple dozen home-grown heroes showing up to “help me” by playing army man.
If there’s a public emergency, I want the cops and the Guard. Because I know who they are, I know and they know what their responsibility is.
I know what side they’re on. I don’t want the NY freaking Light-foot militia showing up in full battle gear.
Stay home, go hunting, shoot some target. Play paintball if you really feel the need for the full combat experience.
Or, you know, *join the freaking National Guard*. That thing you think you’re doing? They already do that. They’d probably be happy to have you on board.
The fact that there are a couple hundred private armies running around trying to save the f’ing world from whatever their personal boogiemen are is *not a good thing*.
it’s almost like the people who drive through 20 miles of holiday traffic with all the DUI drivers to get to the beach, but worry about being killed by a shark.
It’s almost like the people who want to participate in the public sphere without wondering if they’re gonna get shot for their trouble.
What a crazy notion.
In Charlottesville, 32 guys from a couple of self-appointed militias in PA and NY showed up. Camo, semi-automatic rifles. Nobody knew who the hell they were or what they were doing there.
They were there to “protect people’s 1st A rights”. Folks had difficulty distinguishing them from Guardsmen. Which is not good. They likely contributed to police reluctance to take a more forceful role in constraining the violence of the day.
32 guys is the better part of an army infantry rifle platoon. Basically, a free-lance rifle platoon showed up, answerable to nobody in particular, and inserted themselves into a violent freaking riot, complicating the public response.
They thought they were helping.
Over the last year and a half, I’ve attended two very large public demonstrations. At one, some of the originally scheduled speakers were folks notorious for violent rhetoric and actions. The KKK announced ahead of time that they would be present, albeit not wearing hoods or carrying burning croses.
In situations like that, I’d like to know who the freaking cops are. I don’t want a couple dozen home-grown heroes showing up to “help me” by playing army man.
If there’s a public emergency, I want the cops and the Guard. Because I know who they are, I know and they know what their responsibility is.
I know what side they’re on. I don’t want the NY freaking Light-foot militia showing up in full battle gear.
Stay home, go hunting, shoot some target. Play paintball if you really feel the need for the full combat experience.
Or, you know, *join the freaking National Guard*. That thing you think you’re doing? They already do that. They’d probably be happy to have you on board.
The fact that there are a couple hundred private armies running around trying to save the f’ing world from whatever their personal boogiemen are is *not a good thing*.
Putin is a corrupt thug and a gangster.
I’m sure Donald could address, but here’s my 2 cents: I’m fairly sure most reasonable people would readily agree that Putin and his policies, both foreign and domestic are reprehensible.
The question is: What do we do about it? Because it is not so much about ‘equivalencies’ as it is to what extent are policies exacting collective punishment justified, because when push comes to shove, the typical “foreign policy” that most people in power usually turn to at impasse as “effective” (sanctions, war, blockades, threats, etc.) tend to go down this morally repugnant path.
Pointing out ‘equivalencies’ (Gaza, Yemen) is simply putting this question in another form.
Always difficult to assay, certainly.
Thanks.
Putin is a corrupt thug and a gangster.
I’m sure Donald could address, but here’s my 2 cents: I’m fairly sure most reasonable people would readily agree that Putin and his policies, both foreign and domestic are reprehensible.
The question is: What do we do about it? Because it is not so much about ‘equivalencies’ as it is to what extent are policies exacting collective punishment justified, because when push comes to shove, the typical “foreign policy” that most people in power usually turn to at impasse as “effective” (sanctions, war, blockades, threats, etc.) tend to go down this morally repugnant path.
Pointing out ‘equivalencies’ (Gaza, Yemen) is simply putting this question in another form.
Always difficult to assay, certainly.
Thanks.
GftNC—
On the press I linked to a rather long and thorough piece and I am not sure how much I should cut and paste. Briefly, though, the amazing thing about the mainstream Western “ liberal “ press is how, on some issues, it functions almost as if it were a government controlled entity in an authoritarian state. That link is a long account of a recently published book by an Israeli journalist which received widespread coverage. And it was remarkably, amazingly Orwellian coverage including articles by the author himself. Briefly Israel conducted a terrorism campaign in Lebanon, killing hundreds of civilians with car bombs and other terrorist tactics back in the 80’s, quite apart from the far larger death toll inflicted by conventional weapons in the 82 war. But the US coverage of the book was devoted to the Israeli campaign against terrorism and how some decent Israeli officials stopped operations that would have killed civilians, while consistently ignoring the operations that went forward and did kill civilians. I would expect that sort of honesty in, well, Russia. And frankly, in the US. Here if you go against the grain you won’t go to jail. But you won’t be on MSNBC ( a loathsome channel) or writing regularly for the NYT.
Pasting —
“Following the publication of Rise and Kill First, Ronen Bergman gave major public talks, notably at the 92nd Street Y and at Fordham University’s Center on National Security (a talk broadcast live on C-Span.) He appeared on NPR’s Fresh Air and PBS’s Newshour, was interviewed on CBSN, MSNBC, CNN as well as in GQ Magazine and on STRATFOR’s podcast.
The author wrote an opinion piece in the National Review, a front page story for Newsweek. Foreign Policy magazine published a long article adapted from his book and interviewed him on its podcast. Finally, the book was reviewed by most major newspapers in the country, from the New York Times (twice, the second review accompanied by a podcast interview) to the Washington Post, Newsweek, the Washington Times, Bloomberg News or the New Yorker, and by Lawfare, a much celebrated law and international security blog. It was also mentioned and reviewed in the Guardian, the London Times, the Independent and on the BBC.
The public discussion around Rise and Kill First has focused on the history, efficacy, legality and morality of Israel’s so-called “targeted assassinations” or “targeted killings” program. This program, and all Israeli uses of force, have been discussed solely in the context of this country’s fight against “terrorism.” Remarkably, and quite revealingly, this discussion has proceeded, in its entirety and without a single exception, as if the FLLF bombing campaign had never happened, as if the Palestinians had never been the victims of a widespread campaign of “terrorism,” as if this campaign hadn’t been directed by some of the most senior Israeli leaders of the last decades, that is to say as if the revelations contained in Rise and Kill First had simply never been published.
In all these reviews, interviews and public talks, the secret operation set up by Eitan, Ben-Gal, Dagan and Sharon is not mentioned a single time. The idea that Israeli officials might have engaged in “terrorism” in the early 1980s has been treated as simply beyond the pale or, to use media scholar Daniel Hallin’s terminology, as a “deviant” idea that simply “does not belong” in the public discourse and must therefore be excluded from it.”
GftNC—
On the press I linked to a rather long and thorough piece and I am not sure how much I should cut and paste. Briefly, though, the amazing thing about the mainstream Western “ liberal “ press is how, on some issues, it functions almost as if it were a government controlled entity in an authoritarian state. That link is a long account of a recently published book by an Israeli journalist which received widespread coverage. And it was remarkably, amazingly Orwellian coverage including articles by the author himself. Briefly Israel conducted a terrorism campaign in Lebanon, killing hundreds of civilians with car bombs and other terrorist tactics back in the 80’s, quite apart from the far larger death toll inflicted by conventional weapons in the 82 war. But the US coverage of the book was devoted to the Israeli campaign against terrorism and how some decent Israeli officials stopped operations that would have killed civilians, while consistently ignoring the operations that went forward and did kill civilians. I would expect that sort of honesty in, well, Russia. And frankly, in the US. Here if you go against the grain you won’t go to jail. But you won’t be on MSNBC ( a loathsome channel) or writing regularly for the NYT.
Pasting —
“Following the publication of Rise and Kill First, Ronen Bergman gave major public talks, notably at the 92nd Street Y and at Fordham University’s Center on National Security (a talk broadcast live on C-Span.) He appeared on NPR’s Fresh Air and PBS’s Newshour, was interviewed on CBSN, MSNBC, CNN as well as in GQ Magazine and on STRATFOR’s podcast.
The author wrote an opinion piece in the National Review, a front page story for Newsweek. Foreign Policy magazine published a long article adapted from his book and interviewed him on its podcast. Finally, the book was reviewed by most major newspapers in the country, from the New York Times (twice, the second review accompanied by a podcast interview) to the Washington Post, Newsweek, the Washington Times, Bloomberg News or the New Yorker, and by Lawfare, a much celebrated law and international security blog. It was also mentioned and reviewed in the Guardian, the London Times, the Independent and on the BBC.
The public discussion around Rise and Kill First has focused on the history, efficacy, legality and morality of Israel’s so-called “targeted assassinations” or “targeted killings” program. This program, and all Israeli uses of force, have been discussed solely in the context of this country’s fight against “terrorism.” Remarkably, and quite revealingly, this discussion has proceeded, in its entirety and without a single exception, as if the FLLF bombing campaign had never happened, as if the Palestinians had never been the victims of a widespread campaign of “terrorism,” as if this campaign hadn’t been directed by some of the most senior Israeli leaders of the last decades, that is to say as if the revelations contained in Rise and Kill First had simply never been published.
In all these reviews, interviews and public talks, the secret operation set up by Eitan, Ben-Gal, Dagan and Sharon is not mentioned a single time. The idea that Israeli officials might have engaged in “terrorism” in the early 1980s has been treated as simply beyond the pale or, to use media scholar Daniel Hallin’s terminology, as a “deviant” idea that simply “does not belong” in the public discourse and must therefore be excluded from it.”
Here if you go against the grain you won’t go to jail. But you won’t be on MSNBC ( a loathsome channel) or writing regularly for the NYT.
right.
part of the reason the book wasn’t covered more in the US has to be due to the fact that “the grain” is the direction in which eyeballs want to flow and where the money comes from. and books about a conflict that happened 25 years ago between two countries, neither which are the US, isn’t going to be a hot topic here.
Here if you go against the grain you won’t go to jail. But you won’t be on MSNBC ( a loathsome channel) or writing regularly for the NYT.
right.
part of the reason the book wasn’t covered more in the US has to be due to the fact that “the grain” is the direction in which eyeballs want to flow and where the money comes from. and books about a conflict that happened 25 years ago between two countries, neither which are the US, isn’t going to be a hot topic here.
…eyeballs want to flow and therefore where the money comes from…
…eyeballs want to flow and therefore where the money comes from…
right.
I hold in my hand a list of all regular NYT columnists who call themselves “socialists” and proudly support the Palestinian Right of Return. No. No. No. Look again. Look more closely. Really! It’s there. Trust me on this. You think I just made it up?
right.
I hold in my hand a list of all regular NYT columnists who call themselves “socialists” and proudly support the Palestinian Right of Return. No. No. No. Look again. Look more closely. Really! It’s there. Trust me on this. You think I just made it up?
25 years ago
arg.
35 years ago.
25 years ago
arg.
35 years ago.
Russian hackers have italicized ObWi!
Russian hackers have italicized ObWi!
Apologies if already linked, the usual busy place via
Coates on Kanye?
Coates is going all in. Starts off with a personal anecdote and never looks back. I counted twenty first person pronouns in one paragraph. Interesting to watch, it’s not only Coates learning what sells, to me it is also a sign of the times, there is an awful lot of argument by personal narrative going on there, maybe even on this blog! Selfies as communication and sharing.
Don’t understand it yet.
Apologies if already linked, the usual busy place via
Coates on Kanye?
Coates is going all in. Starts off with a personal anecdote and never looks back. I counted twenty first person pronouns in one paragraph. Interesting to watch, it’s not only Coates learning what sells, to me it is also a sign of the times, there is an awful lot of argument by personal narrative going on there, maybe even on this blog! Selfies as communication and sharing.
Don’t understand it yet.
But hsh, how many people are we talking about, though?
I don’t know, but it sounds like more and more. Given the involvement of people from public-safety and military backgrounds, it’s sounds all the more not good to me. I don’t expect to be killed by them (or a shark), but I’m not an OBGYN who performs abortions or a Muslim.
But hsh, how many people are we talking about, though?
I don’t know, but it sounds like more and more. Given the involvement of people from public-safety and military backgrounds, it’s sounds all the more not good to me. I don’t expect to be killed by them (or a shark), but I’m not an OBGYN who performs abortions or a Muslim.
It’s kind of hard to resist, when someone asserts that something is absolutely true, holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.
Personal experience doesn’t prove that something is always, or even generally, true. But it does offer a start, by showing that the contrary is not always the case.
It’s kind of hard to resist, when someone asserts that something is absolutely true, holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.
Personal experience doesn’t prove that something is always, or even generally, true. But it does offer a start, by showing that the contrary is not always the case.
“when someone asserts that something is absolutely true,”
it only takes ONE good counterexample to prove the assertion FALSE*
“holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.” can function as such.
(*not valid when arguing with disingenuous RWNJ liars; just curbstomp them and move on to something more pleasant).
“when someone asserts that something is absolutely true,”
it only takes ONE good counterexample to prove the assertion FALSE*
“holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.” can function as such.
(*not valid when arguing with disingenuous RWNJ liars; just curbstomp them and move on to something more pleasant).
Selfies as communication and sharing.
It’s kind of hard to resist, when someone asserts that something is absolutely true, holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.
It’s especially hard to resist when people tell you that your personal experience isn’t actually your personal experience.
Selfies as communication and sharing.
It’s kind of hard to resist, when someone asserts that something is absolutely true, holding up your personal experience that says that it ain’t necessarily so.
It’s especially hard to resist when people tell you that your personal experience isn’t actually your personal experience.
The question is: What do we do about it? Because it is not so much about ‘equivalencies’ as it is to what extent are policies exacting collective punishment justified, because when push comes to shove, the typical “foreign policy” that most people in power usually turn to at impasse as “effective” (sanctions, war, blockades, threats, etc.) tend to go down this morally repugnant path.
bobbyp, collective punishment is indeed a repugnant idea. But sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term. This can certainly be a more than dubious justification when used by tyrants, but can also be used for good, and recognised as such by the “victims”. I’m thinking, for example of the BDS against South Africa approved by the ANC, which many right-thinking people opposed as damaging the poor black population the most, but which is now widely agreed to have brought down the apartheid regime. The fact that sufficient improvements have not been achieved for the poor black population since liberation is not the fault of the BDS, but of the corruption and semi-incompetence of the ANC.
The question is: What do we do about it? Because it is not so much about ‘equivalencies’ as it is to what extent are policies exacting collective punishment justified, because when push comes to shove, the typical “foreign policy” that most people in power usually turn to at impasse as “effective” (sanctions, war, blockades, threats, etc.) tend to go down this morally repugnant path.
bobbyp, collective punishment is indeed a repugnant idea. But sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term. This can certainly be a more than dubious justification when used by tyrants, but can also be used for good, and recognised as such by the “victims”. I’m thinking, for example of the BDS against South Africa approved by the ANC, which many right-thinking people opposed as damaging the poor black population the most, but which is now widely agreed to have brought down the apartheid regime. The fact that sufficient improvements have not been achieved for the poor black population since liberation is not the fault of the BDS, but of the corruption and semi-incompetence of the ANC.
On the equivalence between Putin’s Russia and He, Trump’s America:
Both may be hopelessly addicted to oppressing defenseless foreigners (sometimes the same ones, even), both may be ruled by oligarchs who exploit their own fellow citizens, and both may be served by mass media that disseminate government propaganda while still, small voices vainly struggle to speak Truth to Power, but there may be a small difference:
He, Trump’s America harbors Putin’s American collaborators. Putin’s Russia seems not to do the reverse.
Americans can’t overthrow Putin, but they CAN at least frustrate him by ridding themselves of his collaborators, from He, Trump on down. If they can hold their noses, that is, and focus on that difference for a while instead of harping on the similarities.
–TP
On the equivalence between Putin’s Russia and He, Trump’s America:
Both may be hopelessly addicted to oppressing defenseless foreigners (sometimes the same ones, even), both may be ruled by oligarchs who exploit their own fellow citizens, and both may be served by mass media that disseminate government propaganda while still, small voices vainly struggle to speak Truth to Power, but there may be a small difference:
He, Trump’s America harbors Putin’s American collaborators. Putin’s Russia seems not to do the reverse.
Americans can’t overthrow Putin, but they CAN at least frustrate him by ridding themselves of his collaborators, from He, Trump on down. If they can hold their noses, that is, and focus on that difference for a while instead of harping on the similarities.
–TP
He, Trump’s America harbors Putin’s American collaborators.
A vital point, Tony P. I’m astonished that anybody keeps stressing that Russian interference in the US election was not that big a deal in terms of foreign interference in other countries by hostile nations. The interference by the Russians is absolutely not the point. The point is that the Russians had treacherous American collaborators, who sold out their country for a mess of pottage. And that those collaborators are being shielded and defended by the Republican establishment.
He, Trump’s America harbors Putin’s American collaborators.
A vital point, Tony P. I’m astonished that anybody keeps stressing that Russian interference in the US election was not that big a deal in terms of foreign interference in other countries by hostile nations. The interference by the Russians is absolutely not the point. The point is that the Russians had treacherous American collaborators, who sold out their country for a mess of pottage. And that those collaborators are being shielded and defended by the Republican establishment.
…but I’m not an OBGYN who performs abortions…
My cousin, a Teamsters organizer based in Iowa, forwarded me a piece about the recent bill restricting abortion that passed and was signed into law there. The University of Iowa medical school has asserted that they are likely to lose their accreditation for OBGYN and a couple of other fields if the law survives its (inevitable) court challenges. The associated teaching hospital says that they will likely lose their accreditation for OBGYN residencies. “Likely” in this case means the accrediting agency has already been in touch.
Two-thirds of Iowa counties already lack an OBGYN specialist. Most of the OBGYNs they do have came through the U of Iowa program.
…but I’m not an OBGYN who performs abortions…
My cousin, a Teamsters organizer based in Iowa, forwarded me a piece about the recent bill restricting abortion that passed and was signed into law there. The University of Iowa medical school has asserted that they are likely to lose their accreditation for OBGYN and a couple of other fields if the law survives its (inevitable) court challenges. The associated teaching hospital says that they will likely lose their accreditation for OBGYN residencies. “Likely” in this case means the accrediting agency has already been in touch.
Two-thirds of Iowa counties already lack an OBGYN specialist. Most of the OBGYNs they do have came through the U of Iowa program.
Oliver North named as new president of the NRA. How perfect.
Oliver North named as new president of the NRA. How perfect.
sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term
That sentence made me shiver.
One should always ask:
Who gets to make these decisions, why and on what basis?
And why do those who will “benefit in the long run” rarely have a voice?
sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term
That sentence made me shiver.
One should always ask:
Who gets to make these decisions, why and on what basis?
And why do those who will “benefit in the long run” rarely have a voice?
I rather thought I had covered that in the succeeding sentences. But your follow-up questions are certainly worth asking. The answer to the last one is that in certain situations, those who will benefit in the long run are purposely oppressed, and stopped from having a voice, by the people that the actions (e.g. BDS) are really aimed at.
I rather thought I had covered that in the succeeding sentences. But your follow-up questions are certainly worth asking. The answer to the last one is that in certain situations, those who will benefit in the long run are purposely oppressed, and stopped from having a voice, by the people that the actions (e.g. BDS) are really aimed at.
Sorry, that should have started with:
That sentence made me shiver.
Sorry, that should have started with:
That sentence made me shiver.
The world is a vampire…
jeebus
The world is a vampire…
jeebus
jeebus
Clay feet are a growth market.
jeebus
Clay feet are a growth market.
It seems that, in more than a few cases, a politician’s public hobbyhorse is a reflection of his private nightmare…
It seems that, in more than a few cases, a politician’s public hobbyhorse is a reflection of his private nightmare…
https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/05/07/proud-boys-founder-gavin-mcinnes-every-metric-men-have-it-worse-women/220139
“….. including rape, when you include prison.”
If we ever do bring back the Fairness Doctrine, which we won’t because America is full of shit, the rebuttals will include sweeping broadcast studios with small-arms fire.
https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018/05/07/proud-boys-founder-gavin-mcinnes-every-metric-men-have-it-worse-women/220139
“….. including rape, when you include prison.”
If we ever do bring back the Fairness Doctrine, which we won’t because America is full of shit, the rebuttals will include sweeping broadcast studios with small-arms fire.
Speaking of prison terms, between traitor Oliver North (three-year suspended sentence), coal industry mass murderer Blankenship, and this guy (shitheads never die in America, they just step up the grift) …
http://juanitajean.com/holy-crap-remember-jim-bakker/
… it seems incarceration is now a recruitment breeding ground for white filth who train in the prison weight rooms to kill America.
Speaking of prison terms, between traitor Oliver North (three-year suspended sentence), coal industry mass murderer Blankenship, and this guy (shitheads never die in America, they just step up the grift) …
http://juanitajean.com/holy-crap-remember-jim-bakker/
… it seems incarceration is now a recruitment breeding ground for white filth who train in the prison weight rooms to kill America.
North sold arms to one of the countries mp plans to nuke.
The two of them will be sucking each other off at the next NRA confab.
Meanwhile, NRA republican vermin tour and shop at Russian armament manufacturing sites for the latest in sniper riflery now killing American soldiers in the Mideast.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/7/1762579/-NRA-Russia-trip-included-visit-to-the-maker-of-sniper-rifle-that-threatens-U-S-troops
Expect to see these very weapons murdering American school children and teachers, government employees, including Mueller’s witnesses, and all of the other enemies of the murderous mp republican party during the midterms and the 2020 Presidential elections.
North sold arms to one of the countries mp plans to nuke.
The two of them will be sucking each other off at the next NRA confab.
Meanwhile, NRA republican vermin tour and shop at Russian armament manufacturing sites for the latest in sniper riflery now killing American soldiers in the Mideast.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/7/1762579/-NRA-Russia-trip-included-visit-to-the-maker-of-sniper-rifle-that-threatens-U-S-troops
Expect to see these very weapons murdering American school children and teachers, government employees, including Mueller’s witnesses, and all of the other enemies of the murderous mp republican party during the midterms and the 2020 Presidential elections.
What you want to bet that Trump’s opposition to Blankenship has the same basis as his original rejection of Bolton: the moustache? It’s the kind of superficiality that would matter to a totally superficial guy.
What you want to bet that Trump’s opposition to Blankenship has the same basis as his original rejection of Bolton: the moustache? It’s the kind of superficiality that would matter to a totally superficial guy.
“The point is that the Russians had treacherous American collaborators, who sold out their country for a mess of pottage.”
If that’s the point it still seems routine. Why are we helping commit crimes against humanity in Yemen? Why are we supporting Israel which at this stage is clearly an apartheid state. Trump said we would make money selling weapons to the Saudis. We get sold out to corporations for all sorts of reasons, deny global warming because of the fossil fuel industry, etc…
Messes of pottage all over the place.
Now if various laws have been broken, it can be proven and it is politically possible to act like we are a nation of laws, which we are not, then, fine, prosecute and or impeach. With Trump there has to be something you could get him on.
Cleek, the book was covered heavily. That wasn’t the issue. But in an upside down topsy turvey yet utterly predictable way. Our famously free press isn’t very honest on some topics.
“The point is that the Russians had treacherous American collaborators, who sold out their country for a mess of pottage.”
If that’s the point it still seems routine. Why are we helping commit crimes against humanity in Yemen? Why are we supporting Israel which at this stage is clearly an apartheid state. Trump said we would make money selling weapons to the Saudis. We get sold out to corporations for all sorts of reasons, deny global warming because of the fossil fuel industry, etc…
Messes of pottage all over the place.
Now if various laws have been broken, it can be proven and it is politically possible to act like we are a nation of laws, which we are not, then, fine, prosecute and or impeach. With Trump there has to be something you could get him on.
Cleek, the book was covered heavily. That wasn’t the issue. But in an upside down topsy turvey yet utterly predictable way. Our famously free press isn’t very honest on some topics.
But sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term.
Yes, we could agree on this as some kind of principle, but as novakant asks….who gets to decide and on what basis?
I would argue that this same principle calls for strict embargoes, sanctions, blockades, etc., against both Israel and Saudi Arabia.
How are they in any way exempt from its application?
The example of South Africa is indeed precipitous, a remarkable confluence of internal and external pressures coupled with an oppressor that wisely decided to throw in the towel, and in fact, it was a process years in the making.
Not something that is likely to be repeated, but one can hope!
But sometimes, action has to be taken which, while it affects the innocent for the worse in the short term, benefits them in the long term.
Yes, we could agree on this as some kind of principle, but as novakant asks….who gets to decide and on what basis?
I would argue that this same principle calls for strict embargoes, sanctions, blockades, etc., against both Israel and Saudi Arabia.
How are they in any way exempt from its application?
The example of South Africa is indeed precipitous, a remarkable confluence of internal and external pressures coupled with an oppressor that wisely decided to throw in the towel, and in fact, it was a process years in the making.
Not something that is likely to be repeated, but one can hope!
Why are we helping commit crimes against humanity in Yemen?
because fossil fuels are the spice of arrakis, and have been for the last 150 years, and the sauds are the house of atreides.
which is to say, because money.
Why are we helping commit crimes against humanity in Yemen?
because fossil fuels are the spice of arrakis, and have been for the last 150 years, and the sauds are the house of atreides.
which is to say, because money.
I asked Donald a question, then got up and wandered off, sorry about that.
Some things to say, but no time to type them out.
I asked Donald a question, then got up and wandered off, sorry about that.
Some things to say, but no time to type them out.
I just discovered the perfect epithet for Oliver North: Full Metal Jerkoff.
I just discovered the perfect epithet for Oliver North: Full Metal Jerkoff.
which is to say, because money.
nah, can’t possibly be.
which is to say, because money.
nah, can’t possibly be.
…who sold out their country for a mess of pottage.
A pot of messages in this case. 😉
…who sold out their country for a mess of pottage.
A pot of messages in this case. 😉
bobbyp and Donald,
Neither of you get any argument from me on Saudi Arabia, Israel, or Yemen. The only caveat I’d (gingerly) introduce would be that Israel, unlike Saudi Arabia, has freedom of the press and a certain amount of freedom for non-violent dissidence, and at least internal democracy, and therefore a full boycott (which would include cultural and academic participation) might be counter-productive. But I can see that it’s arguable, and wouldn’t press it.
bobbyp and Donald,
Neither of you get any argument from me on Saudi Arabia, Israel, or Yemen. The only caveat I’d (gingerly) introduce would be that Israel, unlike Saudi Arabia, has freedom of the press and a certain amount of freedom for non-violent dissidence, and at least internal democracy, and therefore a full boycott (which would include cultural and academic participation) might be counter-productive. But I can see that it’s arguable, and wouldn’t press it.
I just discovered the perfect epithet for Oliver North: Full Metal Jerkoff.
say whatever you want about him, the man knows how to destroy documentary evidence.
it’s a skill set, he’s got it.
I just discovered the perfect epithet for Oliver North: Full Metal Jerkoff.
say whatever you want about him, the man knows how to destroy documentary evidence.
it’s a skill set, he’s got it.
LJ— I will be offline for a couple of days, so take your time.
LJ— I will be offline for a couple of days, so take your time.
GftNC—
I am not sure where I stand on a full boycott of anybody. Take it too far and they become murderous sanctions which kill innocent people, something we Westerners habitually do. But there is zero chance of that with Israel.
BDS is much less stringent. No chance of something like a Gaza blockade. I would favor cutting off our multi billion dollar subsidy and some boycotting of Israeli companies. I am uneasy about academic boycotts, even though Israel makes life miserable for Gazans who want to study abroad or do anything abroad, including fishing a few miles offshore.
The internal democracy argument wears thin. It means that Israel’s policies are democratically chosen. Democracy isn’t all it is cracked up to be— it doesn’t prevent the electorate from choosing to be oppressive.
GftNC—
I am not sure where I stand on a full boycott of anybody. Take it too far and they become murderous sanctions which kill innocent people, something we Westerners habitually do. But there is zero chance of that with Israel.
BDS is much less stringent. No chance of something like a Gaza blockade. I would favor cutting off our multi billion dollar subsidy and some boycotting of Israeli companies. I am uneasy about academic boycotts, even though Israel makes life miserable for Gazans who want to study abroad or do anything abroad, including fishing a few miles offshore.
The internal democracy argument wears thin. It means that Israel’s policies are democratically chosen. Democracy isn’t all it is cracked up to be— it doesn’t prevent the electorate from choosing to be oppressive.
jeebus
a tragedy.
Eric Greitens remains MO Governor, with full GOP support. a farce.
jeebus
a tragedy.
Eric Greitens remains MO Governor, with full GOP support. a farce.
jeebus
When I read the New Yorker article, I immediately thought of Germaine Greer in The Female Eunuch “Women have very little idea of how much men hate them.” I was a teenager when I read that, and have learned a lot since then: hate, love, desire, fear – an often toxic cocktail, in this case plentifully lubricated with alcohol and drugs. His right-on-ness may have been cover, or it may have been atonement, who can say. His public actions and priorities will be a loss, but it is nonetheless necessary for perpetrators to fear exposure and its consequences, and then, just maybe, things will start to change.
Of course, if he’d been a right-wing Republican, he would have just kept denying it, got Black Cube to dig up dirt on the women, and been defended by the GOP.
jeebus
When I read the New Yorker article, I immediately thought of Germaine Greer in The Female Eunuch “Women have very little idea of how much men hate them.” I was a teenager when I read that, and have learned a lot since then: hate, love, desire, fear – an often toxic cocktail, in this case plentifully lubricated with alcohol and drugs. His right-on-ness may have been cover, or it may have been atonement, who can say. His public actions and priorities will be a loss, but it is nonetheless necessary for perpetrators to fear exposure and its consequences, and then, just maybe, things will start to change.
Of course, if he’d been a right-wing Republican, he would have just kept denying it, got Black Cube to dig up dirt on the women, and been defended by the GOP.
I thought this in the NYT was interesting, on the so-called Intellectual Dark Web.
While there is clearly much that is offensive, or creepy, or much too palatable to e.g. the racist alt-right in there, some of them seem to be talking about and trying to address some of the stuff we have discussed here. I know lots of you don’t read the NYT, but I find it useful to alert me to some of what’s happening in the US zeitgeist. What think any of you about these people/this movement?
I thought this in the NYT was interesting, on the so-called Intellectual Dark Web.
While there is clearly much that is offensive, or creepy, or much too palatable to e.g. the racist alt-right in there, some of them seem to be talking about and trying to address some of the stuff we have discussed here. I know lots of you don’t read the NYT, but I find it useful to alert me to some of what’s happening in the US zeitgeist. What think any of you about these people/this movement?
What think any of you about these people/this movement?
Your link is the first I’ve read of them. It’s interesting, at least. This partial quote from the article is about as much of an opinion as I can have about what they’re doing:
…I can’t be alone in hoping the I.D.W. finds a way to eschew the cranks, grifters and bigots and sticks to the truth-seeking.
What think any of you about these people/this movement?
Your link is the first I’ve read of them. It’s interesting, at least. This partial quote from the article is about as much of an opinion as I can have about what they’re doing:
…I can’t be alone in hoping the I.D.W. finds a way to eschew the cranks, grifters and bigots and sticks to the truth-seeking.
I’d say the “Intellectual Dark Web” is actually nothing like the real dark web. If nothing else, the idea of disagreeing civilly with one another would never make it in a place which specializes in selling stuff that kills other people.
From what the article says, it looks to me to be primarily a place where those who hold unpopular views can go to remind themselves that they are not alone. If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up. Some people do it, but it is easier if you feel like you are not all alone.
I’d say the “Intellectual Dark Web” is actually nothing like the real dark web. If nothing else, the idea of disagreeing civilly with one another would never make it in a place which specializes in selling stuff that kills other people.
From what the article says, it looks to me to be primarily a place where those who hold unpopular views can go to remind themselves that they are not alone. If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up. Some people do it, but it is easier if you feel like you are not all alone.
I, for one, applaud the IDW providing a forum for Flat Earthers to meet and chat about their common interest.
For too long they have been treated as a repressed minority, in spite of having members from around the globe.
I, for one, applaud the IDW providing a forum for Flat Earthers to meet and chat about their common interest.
For too long they have been treated as a repressed minority, in spite of having members from around the globe.
If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
In some cases, it’s not that the views are in the minority, but that there’s a very loud minority that tries to shut them down at every turn.
If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
In some cases, it’s not that the views are in the minority, but that there’s a very loud minority that tries to shut them down at every turn.
From GFTNC’s link:
People are starved for controversial opinions
What, no facebook account? 🙂
I’m all for people letting their freak flag fly.
If you think you’re a bold truth-teller and everyone else thinks you’re a loud flaming asshole, maybe take a look in the mirror.
Just saying.
If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
From GFTNC’s link:
People are starved for controversial opinions
What, no facebook account? 🙂
I’m all for people letting their freak flag fly.
If you think you’re a bold truth-teller and everyone else thinks you’re a loud flaming asshole, maybe take a look in the mirror.
Just saying.
If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
The part that particularly resonated with me was Sam Harris and his conversation about the ritual blinding of every third child: I’ve had exactly that conversation about female genital mutilation. I was prepared to be super-tolerant and non-judgemental about other cultures’ practices, until several years ago I started having conversations about that. That’s when I decided that I was actually prepared to criticise other cultures’ practices, and support moves to outlaw them. (I should perhaps make clear that I had always rejected the case for male circumcision, but you could arguably say that was from within my own culture, so a somewhat different issue.)
Some of us have argued with the McKinneys of this world as they caricature the attitudes of a section of the left as SJWs, but in all fairness there is a kind of groupthink, or rightthink, which has to be resisted, and that’s some of what these IDW people seem to be talking about.
It will surprise no-one to hear that this also attracted me:
they are willing to disagree ferociously, but talk civilly, about nearly every meaningful subject: religion, abortion, immigration, the nature of consciousness
The part that particularly resonated with me was Sam Harris and his conversation about the ritual blinding of every third child: I’ve had exactly that conversation about female genital mutilation. I was prepared to be super-tolerant and non-judgemental about other cultures’ practices, until several years ago I started having conversations about that. That’s when I decided that I was actually prepared to criticise other cultures’ practices, and support moves to outlaw them. (I should perhaps make clear that I had always rejected the case for male circumcision, but you could arguably say that was from within my own culture, so a somewhat different issue.)
Some of us have argued with the McKinneys of this world as they caricature the attitudes of a section of the left as SJWs, but in all fairness there is a kind of groupthink, or rightthink, which has to be resisted, and that’s some of what these IDW people seem to be talking about.
It will surprise no-one to hear that this also attracted me:
they are willing to disagree ferociously, but talk civilly, about nearly every meaningful subject: religion, abortion, immigration, the nature of consciousness
wj: If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
Russell: When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
True enough. But whether the person putting forward the view is tough or not is unrelated to the merit of the view itself.
wj: If your view is minority enough, it can be hard to keep speaking up.
Russell: When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
True enough. But whether the person putting forward the view is tough or not is unrelated to the merit of the view itself.
There is more worth quoting:
Second, in an age in which popular feelings about the way things ought to be often override facts about the way things actually are, each is determined to resist parroting what’s politically convenient. And third, some have paid for this commitment by being purged from institutions that have become increasingly hostile to unorthodox thought — and have found receptive audiences elsewhere.
It isn’t a one-off for a dissenter to lose his/her job anymore. It isn’t ‘just college kids being kids’ hounding the shit out of those who don’t fall in line, as if that weren’t bad enough. The Cult of Intersectionality actively promotes the de-platforming of dissenting ideas (hate speech). Racism/misogyny/etc is the new Godwin-lite. The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder, and I’m probably wasting my time and yours.
There is more worth quoting:
Second, in an age in which popular feelings about the way things ought to be often override facts about the way things actually are, each is determined to resist parroting what’s politically convenient. And third, some have paid for this commitment by being purged from institutions that have become increasingly hostile to unorthodox thought — and have found receptive audiences elsewhere.
It isn’t a one-off for a dissenter to lose his/her job anymore. It isn’t ‘just college kids being kids’ hounding the shit out of those who don’t fall in line, as if that weren’t bad enough. The Cult of Intersectionality actively promotes the de-platforming of dissenting ideas (hate speech). Racism/misogyny/etc is the new Godwin-lite. The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder, and I’m probably wasting my time and yours.
Intersectionality
do you, as a straight white conservative male feel especially oppressed in today’s world?
Intersectionality
do you, as a straight white conservative male feel especially oppressed in today’s world?
do you, as a straight white conservative male feel especially oppressed in today’s world?
Not at all. What is your point? That there is still discrimination? Yes. We all know that. But it is not the driver that Intersectionality cultists claim it to be. Nor does it warrant the extreme conduct the cultists routinely engage in.
do you, as a straight white conservative male feel especially oppressed in today’s world?
Not at all. What is your point? That there is still discrimination? Yes. We all know that. But it is not the driver that Intersectionality cultists claim it to be. Nor does it warrant the extreme conduct the cultists routinely engage in.
McKinney seems to use “intersectionality” in the same fashion he criticizes others for using “racism/misogyny/etc.” And it’s weirdly obsessive. I think the majority of the times I see that word on this blog, it’s because McKinney typed it.
It would be better if we could discuss the specifics of given cases to determine the merits of calling someone out for being racist/misogynistic/etc. instead of talking about these things in the abstract – kind of like everything else, where “The Left” generally does terrible and stupid things.
McKinney seems to use “intersectionality” in the same fashion he criticizes others for using “racism/misogyny/etc.” And it’s weirdly obsessive. I think the majority of the times I see that word on this blog, it’s because McKinney typed it.
It would be better if we could discuss the specifics of given cases to determine the merits of calling someone out for being racist/misogynistic/etc. instead of talking about these things in the abstract – kind of like everything else, where “The Left” generally does terrible and stupid things.
What is your point? That there is still discrimination?
that you don’t seem to understand what “intersectionality” means.
Intersectionality cultists
[citation required]
the extreme conduct
[citation required]
What is your point? That there is still discrimination?
that you don’t seem to understand what “intersectionality” means.
Intersectionality cultists
[citation required]
the extreme conduct
[citation required]
The Cult of Intersectionality
Our government is currently doing horrible things to people who are our neighbors, and who are simply are trying to save their families’ lives. People, mostly people of color are being murdered by police officers without consequence. I would worry less about the “cult of intersectionality,” whatever that is, than about the cult of racist nationalism.
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder
Example?
The Cult of Intersectionality
Our government is currently doing horrible things to people who are our neighbors, and who are simply are trying to save their families’ lives. People, mostly people of color are being murdered by police officers without consequence. I would worry less about the “cult of intersectionality,” whatever that is, than about the cult of racist nationalism.
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder
Example?
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder, and I’m probably wasting my time and yours.
Only if you’re determined to misrepresent us and traduce our views. McKinney, all of us had our angst and irritability factors move up a notch or several after the last election, but you did seem to become less reasonable and more insulting when you came by. You accused most of us of supporting things we never had (like no-platforming), and threw concepts like intersectionality at us like weapons when nobody here was a particular proponent of them (despite cleek’s question being well asked). Every time you have discussed an egregious injustice like those academics being hounded out over the halloween costumes (if I remember correctly), most of us have agreed with you, and then you kind of disappear and when you reappear you make all the same old accusations. Are we the closest thing you have to lefty whipping boys?
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder, and I’m probably wasting my time and yours.
Only if you’re determined to misrepresent us and traduce our views. McKinney, all of us had our angst and irritability factors move up a notch or several after the last election, but you did seem to become less reasonable and more insulting when you came by. You accused most of us of supporting things we never had (like no-platforming), and threw concepts like intersectionality at us like weapons when nobody here was a particular proponent of them (despite cleek’s question being well asked). Every time you have discussed an egregious injustice like those academics being hounded out over the halloween costumes (if I remember correctly), most of us have agreed with you, and then you kind of disappear and when you reappear you make all the same old accusations. Are we the closest thing you have to lefty whipping boys?
” in spite of having members from around the globe.”
Well, across the map.
” in spite of having members from around the globe.”
Well, across the map.
MAGA
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/05/08/ending-iran-deal-america-donald-trump-column/588235002/
MAGA
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/05/08/ending-iran-deal-america-donald-trump-column/588235002/
That’s when I decided that I was actually prepared to criticise other cultures’ practices
I think that’s all good. We should also be willing to receive other cultures’ criticisms of our own.
But whether the person putting forward the view is tough or not is unrelated to the merit of the view itself.
Yes.
The Cult of Intersectionality actively promotes the de-platforming of dissenting ideas (hate speech).
I would say that it’s hard for people who are being asked to acknowledge prejudice to receive that when it’s presented in highly adversarial language.
Some “microagressions” seem, to me, to be lacking in the actual “aggression” part.
It’s true, kids are prone to seeing things in black and white. I know I pointed more than my share of righteous fingers back in the day.
All of that said, more than a little “hate speech” actually is hate speech. The world would not suffer from more than a little of it being “de-platformed”.
That’s when I decided that I was actually prepared to criticise other cultures’ practices
I think that’s all good. We should also be willing to receive other cultures’ criticisms of our own.
But whether the person putting forward the view is tough or not is unrelated to the merit of the view itself.
Yes.
The Cult of Intersectionality actively promotes the de-platforming of dissenting ideas (hate speech).
I would say that it’s hard for people who are being asked to acknowledge prejudice to receive that when it’s presented in highly adversarial language.
Some “microagressions” seem, to me, to be lacking in the actual “aggression” part.
It’s true, kids are prone to seeing things in black and white. I know I pointed more than my share of righteous fingers back in the day.
All of that said, more than a little “hate speech” actually is hate speech. The world would not suffer from more than a little of it being “de-platformed”.
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder
Example?
the Iran deal. as with everything Obama did, it is imperative that the dipshit GOP dismantle it.
The value and merit of an idea is tied to the identity of the idea-holder
Example?
the Iran deal. as with everything Obama did, it is imperative that the dipshit GOP dismantle it.
MAGA
Crazy old white man yells at the world.
“RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!”.
President Cartman. I’m sure it’ll all work out just fine.
MAGA
Crazy old white man yells at the world.
“RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!”.
President Cartman. I’m sure it’ll all work out just fine.
All of that said, more than a little “hate speech” actually is hate speech.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
All of that said, more than a little “hate speech” actually is hate speech.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
Silverman on Iran. I find him persuasive.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
Ain’t nobody else doing what the SPLC does, as far as I can tell. When it no longer needs doing, I’m sure they’ll stop.
Silverman on Iran. I find him persuasive.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
Ain’t nobody else doing what the SPLC does, as far as I can tell. When it no longer needs doing, I’m sure they’ll stop.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
It always helps when making statements like this to cite examples so that we can discuss the examples. The SPLC does very good work, and if you believe that they have made some assessments that aren’t appropriate (which is possible), we might discuss those.
It doesn’t help when organizations like the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
It always helps when making statements like this to cite examples so that we can discuss the examples. The SPLC does very good work, and if you believe that they have made some assessments that aren’t appropriate (which is possible), we might discuss those.
When it no longer needs doing, I’m sure they’ll stop.
It would seem that some of what they laudably use to do no longer needs doing since they waste time, effort and money slandering groups they have disagreements with.
When it no longer needs doing, I’m sure they’ll stop.
It would seem that some of what they laudably use to do no longer needs doing since they waste time, effort and money slandering groups they have disagreements with.
What’s your beef with SPLC?
What’s your beef with SPLC?
the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups
just for fun, i looked at the groups the SPLC has named in NC.
i see:
1 “general hate” (American Guard – anti-immigrant, white nationalist)
1 white nationalist
2 neo-confederate
2 anti-immigrant
3 neo-nazi
4 anti-muslim
4 KKK
5 skinheads
10 black nationalist (mostly Nation Of Islam and Black Panthers)
the SPLC label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups
just for fun, i looked at the groups the SPLC has named in NC.
i see:
1 “general hate” (American Guard – anti-immigrant, white nationalist)
1 white nationalist
2 neo-confederate
2 anti-immigrant
3 neo-nazi
4 anti-muslim
4 KKK
5 skinheads
10 black nationalist (mostly Nation Of Islam and Black Panthers)
yeah, maybe a little more detail would be helpful.
I know lots of folks think Dees is a showboat, but that’s a personal thing.
I’m curious to know what folks the SPLC is slandering that don’t deserve it.
yeah, maybe a little more detail would be helpful.
I know lots of folks think Dees is a showboat, but that’s a personal thing.
I’m curious to know what folks the SPLC is slandering that don’t deserve it.
It doesn’t help when organizations . . . label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
Amen. It is the equivalent of debasement of the currency. That is, it removes the force of the label, which means that it doesn’t have much use when addressing things which actually are hate speech.
It doesn’t help when organizations . . . label any speech and any groups they disagree with as hate speech and hate groups.
Amen. It is the equivalent of debasement of the currency. That is, it removes the force of the label, which means that it doesn’t have much use when addressing things which actually are hate speech.
i was quite skeptical of Campos’ musings about Broidy being a cut-out for yet another of Trump’s mistress-silence-expenditures. that seemed a bit far-fetched.
but after learning that Broidy has already done this, i’m not skeptical at all.
i was quite skeptical of Campos’ musings about Broidy being a cut-out for yet another of Trump’s mistress-silence-expenditures. that seemed a bit far-fetched.
but after learning that Broidy has already done this, i’m not skeptical at all.
The SPLC does very good work, and if you believe that they have made some assessments that aren’t appropriate (which is possible), we might discuss those.
The links are from a single source, but skim some of the articles and see if you think the authors have any grounds for the various criticisms they make.
The Southern Poverty Law Center Is Counting Extremists Again: Do its numbers tell a story?
The Southern Poverty Law Center Scam: A “hate group” list loved by the media is bogus.
SPLC Selling Hate: The Southern Poverty Law Center scam.
The Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hateful Agenda: The outfit’s silly hit jobs against intellectual opponents only discredit it
The SPLC does very good work, and if you believe that they have made some assessments that aren’t appropriate (which is possible), we might discuss those.
The links are from a single source, but skim some of the articles and see if you think the authors have any grounds for the various criticisms they make.
The Southern Poverty Law Center Is Counting Extremists Again: Do its numbers tell a story?
The Southern Poverty Law Center Scam: A “hate group” list loved by the media is bogus.
SPLC Selling Hate: The Southern Poverty Law Center scam.
The Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hateful Agenda: The outfit’s silly hit jobs against intellectual opponents only discredit it
The Intellectual Poverty of the Southern Poverty Law Center: Branding dissenters as haters undercuts its effectiveness.
Southern Poverty Law Center Scraps Its Anti-Muslim Hate List: But its illiberal tactics against liberal Muslim reformers remain extremely troubling.
Southern Poverty Law Center Calls Cinco de Mayo Festivities ‘Textbook Cultural Appropriation’: “Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.” True, but those shouldn’t be off-limits either.
The Intellectual Poverty of the Southern Poverty Law Center: Branding dissenters as haters undercuts its effectiveness.
Southern Poverty Law Center Scraps Its Anti-Muslim Hate List: But its illiberal tactics against liberal Muslim reformers remain extremely troubling.
Southern Poverty Law Center Calls Cinco de Mayo Festivities ‘Textbook Cultural Appropriation’: “Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.” True, but those shouldn’t be off-limits either.
What’s your beef with SPLC?
I don’t have a particular beef with them other than I think they’re engaging in, as wj says, a “debasement of the currency.”
What’s your beef with SPLC?
I don’t have a particular beef with them other than I think they’re engaging in, as wj says, a “debasement of the currency.”
A “hate group” list loved by the media is bogus.
the article complains that the “Family Research Council” was called a hate group. Wiki notes:
yeah. i’m with SPLC on this.
Reason then complains that SPLC listed the “Ruth Institute” for being against allowing gays to adopt. SPLC provides plenty of quotes that show the RI is full of the same kind of ridiculous homophobic fear-mongering and disinformation as the Family Research Council.
so, Reason is 0/2, IMO.
A “hate group” list loved by the media is bogus.
the article complains that the “Family Research Council” was called a hate group. Wiki notes:
yeah. i’m with SPLC on this.
Reason then complains that SPLC listed the “Ruth Institute” for being against allowing gays to adopt. SPLC provides plenty of quotes that show the RI is full of the same kind of ridiculous homophobic fear-mongering and disinformation as the Family Research Council.
so, Reason is 0/2, IMO.
I read the Cinco de Mayo post on Reason’s blog, purely out of curiosity. There were attributions based on things no one said. Meh. Not impressed (at least not in a good way).
I read the Cinco de Mayo post on Reason’s blog, purely out of curiosity. There were attributions based on things no one said. Meh. Not impressed (at least not in a good way).
Yup, that Reason site and most of those links look fairly dodgy for reasons already mentioned, so I’m still basically for the SPLC, but they clearly have made some mistakes. I was taken aback to see that they had put Maajid Nawaz on their list; the Quilliam Foundation are the kind of people who actually offer some kind of hope in the defence of Islam’s good name and the fight against ongoing radicalisation in Islamic communities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilliam_(think_tank)
I hope the SPLC withdrew the list (CharlesWT’s penultimate link) because they saw they’d made a mistake, rather than because they were about to get sued by Nawaz for defamation, but of course this hope might be naive. I guess it just means that you can’t accept the SPLC’s lists completely uncritically, but it does seem you can trust the majority of them, and their numbers.
Yup, that Reason site and most of those links look fairly dodgy for reasons already mentioned, so I’m still basically for the SPLC, but they clearly have made some mistakes. I was taken aback to see that they had put Maajid Nawaz on their list; the Quilliam Foundation are the kind of people who actually offer some kind of hope in the defence of Islam’s good name and the fight against ongoing radicalisation in Islamic communities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilliam_(think_tank)
I hope the SPLC withdrew the list (CharlesWT’s penultimate link) because they saw they’d made a mistake, rather than because they were about to get sued by Nawaz for defamation, but of course this hope might be naive. I guess it just means that you can’t accept the SPLC’s lists completely uncritically, but it does seem you can trust the majority of them, and their numbers.
I think the majority of the times I see that word on this blog, it’s because McKinney typed it.
Or one of us asks what McK is on about. That increases the number of tokens in the corpus. I wonder what that giant of political philosophy, Rob Schneider’s take on all this is.
The problem/challenge with the SPLC can be seen in their name, SOUTHERN Poverty Law Center, imo. By trying to expand their definitions outside of the South, they run into a lot of definitional problems and edge cases. Also, racism has such a pedigree in the South, the challenge is to root it out. But for other places and other types of hate groups, they can come from enlightened beginnings, but evolve into hate groups. (frex the Islamic Brotherhood)
Its founder, Hassan Al-Banna, was influenced by Islamic modernist reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida (who attacked the taqlid of the official `ulama, and he insisted that only the Quran and the best-attested hadiths should be sources of the Sharia), with the group structure and approach being influenced by Sufism. Al-Banna avoided controversies over doctrine. It downplayed doctrinal differences between schools (although takfiring Bahais and Ahmadi Muslims) emphasizing the political importance of worldwide unity of the Muslim Nation (umma).
As Islamic Modernist beliefs were co-opted by secularist rulers and official `ulama, the Brotherhood has become traditionalist and conservative, “being the only available outlet for those whose religious and cultural sensibilities had been outraged by the impact of Westernization”.
And as right wing idiocy goes international, it is to be expected.
I think the majority of the times I see that word on this blog, it’s because McKinney typed it.
Or one of us asks what McK is on about. That increases the number of tokens in the corpus. I wonder what that giant of political philosophy, Rob Schneider’s take on all this is.
The problem/challenge with the SPLC can be seen in their name, SOUTHERN Poverty Law Center, imo. By trying to expand their definitions outside of the South, they run into a lot of definitional problems and edge cases. Also, racism has such a pedigree in the South, the challenge is to root it out. But for other places and other types of hate groups, they can come from enlightened beginnings, but evolve into hate groups. (frex the Islamic Brotherhood)
Its founder, Hassan Al-Banna, was influenced by Islamic modernist reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida (who attacked the taqlid of the official `ulama, and he insisted that only the Quran and the best-attested hadiths should be sources of the Sharia), with the group structure and approach being influenced by Sufism. Al-Banna avoided controversies over doctrine. It downplayed doctrinal differences between schools (although takfiring Bahais and Ahmadi Muslims) emphasizing the political importance of worldwide unity of the Muslim Nation (umma).
As Islamic Modernist beliefs were co-opted by secularist rulers and official `ulama, the Brotherhood has become traditionalist and conservative, “being the only available outlet for those whose religious and cultural sensibilities had been outraged by the impact of Westernization”.
And as right wing idiocy goes international, it is to be expected.
I think the SPLC is generally opposed to organizations that seek to limit the civil rights of others.
“Hate” might be too strong a word for that. Sometimes it’s not. Depends on motivation and valence.
In general I think what they do is useful and constructive. My two cents.
More than a little of what gets labeled as hate speech nowadays is actually hate speech. We can all draw the line wherever we like, but I don’t see the SPLC making that any more or less difficult.
I think the SPLC is generally opposed to organizations that seek to limit the civil rights of others.
“Hate” might be too strong a word for that. Sometimes it’s not. Depends on motivation and valence.
In general I think what they do is useful and constructive. My two cents.
More than a little of what gets labeled as hate speech nowadays is actually hate speech. We can all draw the line wherever we like, but I don’t see the SPLC making that any more or less difficult.
Here, let me throw a little gasoline on that.
Break everything:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2018/05/08/breaking-israel-attacks-iran-in-syria-as-it-prepares-for-war/
Never sign a treaty with a fucking American.
Never turn your back on a fucking American.
Always shoot first at a fucking American.
Keep your wallet and credit cards safe from fucking Americans.
Never let a fucking American near your womenfolk. They may say they are OBGYNs but they are just fingerfuckers in mobile vans looking for the main chance.
The world needs a wall.
It should be built ten feet outside American borders. Any fucking American who foolishly tries to breach that wall should be shot on sight.
Any American ships outside that wall will be sunk. Any American aircraft outside that wall will be shot out of the sky.
I demand America totally disarm from its overwhelming nuclear military posture. I demand international inspectors swarm all over all nuclear weapons installations and nuclear energy sites within so-called American birders and shut them down to make the world safe for normal human beings.
You fucking rocket boy Americans got till Friday to meet these demands to the letter of the law or we break you hard with the primal forces of nature.
Here, let me throw a little gasoline on that.
Break everything:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2018/05/08/breaking-israel-attacks-iran-in-syria-as-it-prepares-for-war/
Never sign a treaty with a fucking American.
Never turn your back on a fucking American.
Always shoot first at a fucking American.
Keep your wallet and credit cards safe from fucking Americans.
Never let a fucking American near your womenfolk. They may say they are OBGYNs but they are just fingerfuckers in mobile vans looking for the main chance.
The world needs a wall.
It should be built ten feet outside American borders. Any fucking American who foolishly tries to breach that wall should be shot on sight.
Any American ships outside that wall will be sunk. Any American aircraft outside that wall will be shot out of the sky.
I demand America totally disarm from its overwhelming nuclear military posture. I demand international inspectors swarm all over all nuclear weapons installations and nuclear energy sites within so-called American birders and shut them down to make the world safe for normal human beings.
You fucking rocket boy Americans got till Friday to meet these demands to the letter of the law or we break you hard with the primal forces of nature.
What punishment do you propose for “ineffectual management”?
Corporate raiders sometimes enact the punishment.
What punishment do you propose for “ineffectual management”?
Corporate raiders sometimes enact the punishment.
Wrong thread… 🙁
Wrong thread… 🙁
In general I think what they do is useful and constructive. My two cents.
The SPLC is one of my donees. I don’t have a huge amount of cash, but they’re worth it.
The IRC is another.
Haven’t seen anything that would deal break either of those organizations.
In general I think what they do is useful and constructive. My two cents.
The SPLC is one of my donees. I don’t have a huge amount of cash, but they’re worth it.
The IRC is another.
Haven’t seen anything that would deal break either of those organizations.
This piece on the Huffington Post, headlined Eric Schneiderman Has Always Been a Conman (the man liberals loved is a myth), is by someone called Zach Carter, and purports to show that his reputation for being a champion against various forms of bank fraud etc was a complete sham. I don’t know whether to believe this, or whether this Carter guy has some kind of axe to grind. Does anybody else have a take on this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/eric-schneiderman-liberal-myth_us_5af1eba1e4b0ab5c3d6aaefb
This piece on the Huffington Post, headlined Eric Schneiderman Has Always Been a Conman (the man liberals loved is a myth), is by someone called Zach Carter, and purports to show that his reputation for being a champion against various forms of bank fraud etc was a complete sham. I don’t know whether to believe this, or whether this Carter guy has some kind of axe to grind. Does anybody else have a take on this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/eric-schneiderman-liberal-myth_us_5af1eba1e4b0ab5c3d6aaefb
Link from hilzoy’s feed to an excellent article in the American Conservative on Gina Haspel. It just goes to show, there are principled conservatives apart from wj left in America:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/gina-haspel-as-if-nuremberg-never-happened/
Link from hilzoy’s feed to an excellent article in the American Conservative on Gina Haspel. It just goes to show, there are principled conservatives apart from wj left in America:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/gina-haspel-as-if-nuremberg-never-happened/
Open-thread gear-shift:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e-commerce-boom-wont-save-retail-jobs-144800665.html
Of course the growth in e-commerce jobs won’t make up for the lost retail jobs. That’s kind of the point as concerns the cold, hard economics of it. It’s just one facet of the broader trend. The amount of human labor needed to produce a unit of output goes down, generally, as technology (in the strict sense) and other innovations (which may be considered technology in a looser sense) advance.
So what does this mean about the good ol’ (not exclusively) American work ethic? When do no-longer-useful cultural expectations/values go by the wayside? No one wants to be lazy, of course, and I suspect there will always be things that need doing that only humans can do. Should we spend more of our time doing those things and doing them better? Should our work ethic simply be less focused on employment?
Should we spend more time raising our kids, making art of some kind or another, providing emotional support for others in need, exercising our minds and bodies to maintain health, enjoying and preserving nature?
Are changing cultural expectations what will drive the economic changes needed to prevent capital from so thoroughly displacing labor that capital destroys itself, or will the economics drive cultural expectations when people don’t have enough remunerative work to go around under the existing system of economic distribution? Will either of those things (or something else) happen fast enough to avoid a really terrible sh*t show?
Open-thread gear-shift:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e-commerce-boom-wont-save-retail-jobs-144800665.html
Of course the growth in e-commerce jobs won’t make up for the lost retail jobs. That’s kind of the point as concerns the cold, hard economics of it. It’s just one facet of the broader trend. The amount of human labor needed to produce a unit of output goes down, generally, as technology (in the strict sense) and other innovations (which may be considered technology in a looser sense) advance.
So what does this mean about the good ol’ (not exclusively) American work ethic? When do no-longer-useful cultural expectations/values go by the wayside? No one wants to be lazy, of course, and I suspect there will always be things that need doing that only humans can do. Should we spend more of our time doing those things and doing them better? Should our work ethic simply be less focused on employment?
Should we spend more time raising our kids, making art of some kind or another, providing emotional support for others in need, exercising our minds and bodies to maintain health, enjoying and preserving nature?
Are changing cultural expectations what will drive the economic changes needed to prevent capital from so thoroughly displacing labor that capital destroys itself, or will the economics drive cultural expectations when people don’t have enough remunerative work to go around under the existing system of economic distribution? Will either of those things (or something else) happen fast enough to avoid a really terrible sh*t show?
since the American ‘work ethic’ isn’t genetic, there’s no reason to assume future generations will have it.
maybe sitting around taking 3D selfies and eating Cheetos will be enough to keep people satisfied.
the WALL-E world.
since the American ‘work ethic’ isn’t genetic, there’s no reason to assume future generations will have it.
maybe sitting around taking 3D selfies and eating Cheetos will be enough to keep people satisfied.
the WALL-E world.
However, at the moment…
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country, a sign of just how far the nation has turned around from the recession that cost so many Americans their jobs nearly a decade ago.
The Labor Department reported Tuesday there were 6.6 million job openings in March, a record high — and enough for the 6.6 million Americans who were actively looking for a job that month.”
The U.S. now has a record 6.6 million job openings
However, at the moment…
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country, a sign of just how far the nation has turned around from the recession that cost so many Americans their jobs nearly a decade ago.
The Labor Department reported Tuesday there were 6.6 million job openings in March, a record high — and enough for the 6.6 million Americans who were actively looking for a job that month.”
The U.S. now has a record 6.6 million job openings
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country…
(Thanks Obama!)
it’s this that makes me wonder WTF the Dems are doing toying with the idea of a guaranteed job program right now. could there be a worse time to push the idea that the government should create jobs than a period of full employment?
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country…
(Thanks Obama!)
it’s this that makes me wonder WTF the Dems are doing toying with the idea of a guaranteed job program right now. could there be a worse time to push the idea that the government should create jobs than a period of full employment?
since the American ‘work ethic’ isn’t genetic, there’s no reason to assume future generations will have it.
Sure. But things get passed on other than through DNA. How long will it take for a change to occur in cultural expectations of employment in estimations of self-worth and the worth of others?
maybe sitting around taking 3D selfies and eating Cheetos will be enough to keep people satisfied.
But where will people get the money to buy their selfie gizmos and Cheetos?
since the American ‘work ethic’ isn’t genetic, there’s no reason to assume future generations will have it.
Sure. But things get passed on other than through DNA. How long will it take for a change to occur in cultural expectations of employment in estimations of self-worth and the worth of others?
maybe sitting around taking 3D selfies and eating Cheetos will be enough to keep people satisfied.
But where will people get the money to buy their selfie gizmos and Cheetos?
GFTNC’s link opens with this:
I have a comment, and a question.
The comment:
If Obama and/or the DOJ under Obama had gone after the CIA, Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Yoo, Addington, or any of the other folks involved in the creation of the torture regime, there would have been bloody hell to pay. There would likely have been public violence.
That is a reality that Obama did not create, and had to live with and operate in the context of.
The question:
Can anyone point me to essays at TAC contemporaneous with Obama’s time in office, calling for him to pursue the folks responsible for the torture regime?
Maybe they exist. I’d be happy to know that they did. If anyone can point me to them, I’ll appreciate it.
GFTNC’s link opens with this:
I have a comment, and a question.
The comment:
If Obama and/or the DOJ under Obama had gone after the CIA, Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Yoo, Addington, or any of the other folks involved in the creation of the torture regime, there would have been bloody hell to pay. There would likely have been public violence.
That is a reality that Obama did not create, and had to live with and operate in the context of.
The question:
Can anyone point me to essays at TAC contemporaneous with Obama’s time in office, calling for him to pursue the folks responsible for the torture regime?
Maybe they exist. I’d be happy to know that they did. If anyone can point me to them, I’ll appreciate it.
How long will it take for a change to occur in cultural expectations of employment in estimations of self-worth and the worth of others?
as jobs become more scarce, the culture will have to drop the fiction that work is the only way to be satisfied. i expect an industry will spring up in books and lectures about how you are not your job (ironically creating jobs for people spreading that message, for a while).
how long? 30 years – one generation.
once a generation of kids grows up in a world where jobs are scarce, they’re not going to accept or even understand the old “work defines you!” nonsense.
But where will people get the money to buy their selfie gizmos and Cheetos?
no idea.
maybe the machines we create to put ourselves out of work will be built with the primary goal of keeping us alive and happy. so everything they make will be free. or money will be total fiction, given to us like an allowance, but not actually worth anything to the robots that build our stuff and take care of us – they give us worthless tokens, we give them back in exchange for free stuff. (WALL-E, again)
How long will it take for a change to occur in cultural expectations of employment in estimations of self-worth and the worth of others?
as jobs become more scarce, the culture will have to drop the fiction that work is the only way to be satisfied. i expect an industry will spring up in books and lectures about how you are not your job (ironically creating jobs for people spreading that message, for a while).
how long? 30 years – one generation.
once a generation of kids grows up in a world where jobs are scarce, they’re not going to accept or even understand the old “work defines you!” nonsense.
But where will people get the money to buy their selfie gizmos and Cheetos?
no idea.
maybe the machines we create to put ourselves out of work will be built with the primary goal of keeping us alive and happy. so everything they make will be free. or money will be total fiction, given to us like an allowance, but not actually worth anything to the robots that build our stuff and take care of us – they give us worthless tokens, we give them back in exchange for free stuff. (WALL-E, again)
Can anyone point me to essays at TAC contemporaneous with Obama’s time in office, calling for him to pursue the folks responsible for the torture regime?
here’s one: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2009/05/29/obamas-torture-coverup/
google: “site:theamericanconservative.com obama torture”
Can anyone point me to essays at TAC contemporaneous with Obama’s time in office, calling for him to pursue the folks responsible for the torture regime?
here’s one: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2009/05/29/obamas-torture-coverup/
google: “site:theamericanconservative.com obama torture”
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country…”
(Thanks Fed)
Obama did absolutely nothing, (except sit on the sidelines and tinker in renewable energy) to stimulate job growth. The Fed utilized monetary policy to drive the economy and the Congress limited the government’s growth.
The Congress has now decided to try fiscal policy to replace the monetary policy support in the short term(hopefully)while the Fed tightens a little and cleans up its balance sheet to have more options when the next crisis occurs.
Not complaining about Obama in this case, doing nothing was a good tactic. But thanks is probably more reasonable elsewhere.
“The United States now has a job opening for every unemployed person in the country…”
(Thanks Fed)
Obama did absolutely nothing, (except sit on the sidelines and tinker in renewable energy) to stimulate job growth. The Fed utilized monetary policy to drive the economy and the Congress limited the government’s growth.
The Congress has now decided to try fiscal policy to replace the monetary policy support in the short term(hopefully)while the Fed tightens a little and cleans up its balance sheet to have more options when the next crisis occurs.
Not complaining about Obama in this case, doing nothing was a good tactic. But thanks is probably more reasonable elsewhere.
Obama did absolutely nothing, (except sit on the sidelines and tinker in renewable energy) to stimulate job growth.
bbzzzzzt. wrong.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/111th-congress-2009-2010/reports/08-24-arra.pdf
color-coded for your pleasure.
Obama did absolutely nothing, (except sit on the sidelines and tinker in renewable energy) to stimulate job growth.
bbzzzzzt. wrong.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/111th-congress-2009-2010/reports/08-24-arra.pdf
color-coded for your pleasure.
I seem to recall one of my projects getting a $10M grant under ARRA, provided it was bid and awarded quickly enough, which it was with a lot of effort on a number of people’s parts.
On ARRA, from Wikipedia:
He was getting it done before he was even inaugurated.
I seem to recall one of my projects getting a $10M grant under ARRA, provided it was bid and awarded quickly enough, which it was with a lot of effort on a number of people’s parts.
On ARRA, from Wikipedia:
He was getting it done before he was even inaugurated.
The amount of human labor needed to produce a unit of output goes down, generally, as technology (in the strict sense) and other innovations (which may be considered technology in a looser sense) advance.
So what does this mean about the good ol’ (not exclusively) American work ethic? When do no-longer-useful cultural expectations/values go by the wayside? No one wants to be lazy, of course, and I suspect there will always be things that need doing that only humans can do. Should we spend more of our time doing those things and doing them better? Should our work ethic simply be less focused on employment?
Technology (broadly defined) has been destroying (old) jobs for a couple of centuries now. By making it require less work to make stuff, it frees up labor to make more and new stuff.
And new jobs do arise to more than fill the void. That’s why we now have 1.1 open jobs per person looking for work. The problem, one that always takes a while to work thru, is that the new jobs require new skills — skills the workers available may not have. But we can deal with it; we’ve done it before.
I recall when I first got out of college. Big chunks of the economy, including the one I was trained for (aerospace) were contracting — that was due to Vietnam winding down. But there were still jobs out there. In fact, Bank of America was essentially hiring folks off the street for programming jobs. (Nobody had degrees in IT. For software, UC had exactly one programming class: in FORTRAN, not CoBOL or Assembler.) BofA, and they were not alone, would run us thru a 10 week training class, and put us to work.
The same thing will likely happen now. Companies are rather out of the habit of training workers from scratch. But it can be done; once they figure out that they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere, it will be done.
The amount of human labor needed to produce a unit of output goes down, generally, as technology (in the strict sense) and other innovations (which may be considered technology in a looser sense) advance.
So what does this mean about the good ol’ (not exclusively) American work ethic? When do no-longer-useful cultural expectations/values go by the wayside? No one wants to be lazy, of course, and I suspect there will always be things that need doing that only humans can do. Should we spend more of our time doing those things and doing them better? Should our work ethic simply be less focused on employment?
Technology (broadly defined) has been destroying (old) jobs for a couple of centuries now. By making it require less work to make stuff, it frees up labor to make more and new stuff.
And new jobs do arise to more than fill the void. That’s why we now have 1.1 open jobs per person looking for work. The problem, one that always takes a while to work thru, is that the new jobs require new skills — skills the workers available may not have. But we can deal with it; we’ve done it before.
I recall when I first got out of college. Big chunks of the economy, including the one I was trained for (aerospace) were contracting — that was due to Vietnam winding down. But there were still jobs out there. In fact, Bank of America was essentially hiring folks off the street for programming jobs. (Nobody had degrees in IT. For software, UC had exactly one programming class: in FORTRAN, not CoBOL or Assembler.) BofA, and they were not alone, would run us thru a 10 week training class, and put us to work.
The same thing will likely happen now. Companies are rather out of the habit of training workers from scratch. But it can be done; once they figure out that they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere, it will be done.
But it can be done; once they figure out that they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere, it will be done.
Which is unfortunate since somethings won’t be done and the rest will cost more than necessary.
But it can be done; once they figure out that they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere, it will be done.
Which is unfortunate since somethings won’t be done and the rest will cost more than necessary.
Which is unfortunate since somethings won’t be done and the rest will cost more than necessary.
What’s unfortunate about it???
The training has to come from somewhere. And if companies are training people to fill their openings, there is a good chance that the training will be relevant and a job waiting at the end of it. I’m at a loss to see how that is a bad thing, or what a better alternative might be.
Which is unfortunate since somethings won’t be done and the rest will cost more than necessary.
What’s unfortunate about it???
The training has to come from somewhere. And if companies are training people to fill their openings, there is a good chance that the training will be relevant and a job waiting at the end of it. I’m at a loss to see how that is a bad thing, or what a better alternative might be.
Open Thread: Planning for Failure
Trump had said that the DMZ would be a good place for talks with Kim, “because you’re there” and any celebration would be memorable if the talks proved successful.
But now he has ruled out that site. The problem was always that, if things went south, Kim would be in a position to shell the site — including taking out Trump. Apparently Trump’s not brave enough to put himself at risk over his negotiating skills.
Open Thread: Planning for Failure
Trump had said that the DMZ would be a good place for talks with Kim, “because you’re there” and any celebration would be memorable if the talks proved successful.
But now he has ruled out that site. The problem was always that, if things went south, Kim would be in a position to shell the site — including taking out Trump. Apparently Trump’s not brave enough to put himself at risk over his negotiating skills.
What’s unfortunate about it???
I took your “they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere” to mean the jobs wouldn’t be filled by immigrants.
What’s unfortunate about it???
I took your “they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere” to mean the jobs wouldn’t be filled by immigrants.
Technology (broadly defined) has been destroying (old) jobs for a couple of centuries now. By making it require less work to make stuff, it frees up labor to make more and new stuff.
A couple of centuries isn’t really that long in the scheme of things, and the nature of technology is changing. Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries. Consider the new delivery jobs being created by e-commerce. What happens to them when the delivery trucks drive themselves (or the drones fly themselves)?
Yeah, there will be jobs created as a result of new technologies, but there won’t necessarily be as many as the ones eliminated.
That’s why we now have 1.1 open jobs per person looking for work.
A current circumstance that is news for a reason. Labor participation is also at a long-term low. Boomers continue to retire, but also continue to consume. They’ll go from consuming new homes, vacations, and wine to consuming health care to consuming funeral services, after which they’ll stop consuming. (A grim assessment, I know, but an unavoidable one.)
Technology (broadly defined) has been destroying (old) jobs for a couple of centuries now. By making it require less work to make stuff, it frees up labor to make more and new stuff.
A couple of centuries isn’t really that long in the scheme of things, and the nature of technology is changing. Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries. Consider the new delivery jobs being created by e-commerce. What happens to them when the delivery trucks drive themselves (or the drones fly themselves)?
Yeah, there will be jobs created as a result of new technologies, but there won’t necessarily be as many as the ones eliminated.
That’s why we now have 1.1 open jobs per person looking for work.
A current circumstance that is news for a reason. Labor participation is also at a long-term low. Boomers continue to retire, but also continue to consume. They’ll go from consuming new homes, vacations, and wine to consuming health care to consuming funeral services, after which they’ll stop consuming. (A grim assessment, I know, but an unavoidable one.)
I took your “they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere” to mean the jobs wouldn’t be filled by immigrants.
Nope, I meant primarily poaching trained staff from other companies. Or from the ranks of the currently unemployed.
I took your “they can’t just grab trained workers from elsewhere” to mean the jobs wouldn’t be filled by immigrants.
Nope, I meant primarily poaching trained staff from other companies. Or from the ranks of the currently unemployed.
…, after which they’ll stop consuming.
What about all those abandoned Facebook accounts taking up disk space?
…, after which they’ll stop consuming.
What about all those abandoned Facebook accounts taking up disk space?
After posting a link upthread to a hitjob on Schneiderman’s record in the Huffington Post, I now read a piece in the NYT essentially (with only a few caveats) lauding his achievements on the same (mainly financial) stuff. I guess maybe the truth lies somewhere in between? I hope so, anyway, or else I’d be even more worried about the future prospects of the kind of politicians I favour….
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/business/eric-schneiderman-financial-cases.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
After posting a link upthread to a hitjob on Schneiderman’s record in the Huffington Post, I now read a piece in the NYT essentially (with only a few caveats) lauding his achievements on the same (mainly financial) stuff. I guess maybe the truth lies somewhere in between? I hope so, anyway, or else I’d be even more worried about the future prospects of the kind of politicians I favour….
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/business/eric-schneiderman-financial-cases.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries.
AI, no. But automation is exactly what has been happening. An assembly line is just the (admittedly partial) automation of handcrafting.
Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries.
AI, no. But automation is exactly what has been happening. An assembly line is just the (admittedly partial) automation of handcrafting.
Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries.
Jacquard loom, ca. 1803.
Flying shuttle, ca. 1733.
Upright loom, ca. 12th C. courtesy of Moslem Spain.
Looms per se, probably 7th C., especially in Syria, Iran, Moslem East Africa.
For one example.
No artificial intelligence, just intelligence.
Automation – enhanced by sophisticated robotics and AI – hasn’t been happening for centuries.
Jacquard loom, ca. 1803.
Flying shuttle, ca. 1733.
Upright loom, ca. 12th C. courtesy of Moslem Spain.
Looms per se, probably 7th C., especially in Syria, Iran, Moslem East Africa.
For one example.
No artificial intelligence, just intelligence.
Yes. Thanks for the history lesson. The enhanced part is precisely the point.
Yes. Thanks for the history lesson. The enhanced part is precisely the point.
oops.
🙁
cool story about looms, though!
oops.
🙁
cool story about looms, though!
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/demand-treasury-auction-lame-222548092.html
A quote from a mere 10 days ago:
“By definition supply and demand will equate,” Mnuchin said. “I’m not concerned about that. I think that there are still a lot of buyers for U.S. Treasuries,” he said when asked about the risks of reduced demand for Treasuries and increased supply.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/demand-treasury-auction-lame-222548092.html
A quote from a mere 10 days ago:
“By definition supply and demand will equate,” Mnuchin said. “I’m not concerned about that. I think that there are still a lot of buyers for U.S. Treasuries,” he said when asked about the risks of reduced demand for Treasuries and increased supply.
cool story about looms, though!
Agreed.
cool story about looms, though!
Agreed.
Demand at Treasury Auction is Lame
Trump just can’t stop winning! (But then, he has lots of experience with getting creditors to stop lending him money.)
Well, at least it may help the Fed do its job of getting interest rates up.
Demand at Treasury Auction is Lame
Trump just can’t stop winning! (But then, he has lots of experience with getting creditors to stop lending him money.)
Well, at least it may help the Fed do its job of getting interest rates up.
A response to the Intellectual Dark Web thing GFTNC posted.
A response to the Intellectual Dark Web thing GFTNC posted.
@russell — yes.
I haven’t had time to follow this thread in detail, but a glance at the original link had me shaking my head.
Sam Harris, obscure oppressed unheard voice?
SRSLY?????????
Good for Nathan Robinson. Although truth to tell I don’t have time to do more than skim that piece right now either.
@russell — yes.
I haven’t had time to follow this thread in detail, but a glance at the original link had me shaking my head.
Sam Harris, obscure oppressed unheard voice?
SRSLY?????????
Good for Nathan Robinson. Although truth to tell I don’t have time to do more than skim that piece right now either.
I read that Nathan Robinson piece, and found it very interesting – it was one of the kinds of comments on the original piece I was hoping/expecting to hear. I am handicapped by not knowing anything about any of the people mentioned, pretty much, so I took their descriptions at face value. I believed that these IDW types were both lefties and rightwingers, because that’s how they were described if I remember correctly. I’ve always thought (and said here) that the term Social Justice Warrior as an insult is weird/laughable/telling, because who with any decent impulses wouldn’t be a warrior for social justice?
But it’s also noticeable that there are some disturbing developments in the public and academic square, and even Nathan Robinson says While I get plenty exasperated by tactics like antifa and concepts like cultural appropriation, I think a lot of the supposed “illiberal leftism” emerges out of an anger at the sorts of people who love to talk but refuse to listen. I grew up minding that, for example, protests could be shut down or otherwise suppressed, and while I have as I matured accepted and believed that hate speech should be outlawed (as it is in the UK), I am very uncomfortable at seeing what I consider legitimate comment or criticism (even if wrongheaded in my opinion) labelled unacceptable and no-platformed (like Germaine Greer saying she doesn’t consider trans women to be women, and consequently being no-platformed in various UK universities).
It think it’s legitimate to be concerned about this kind of stuff, without being assumed to be illiberal oneself. Particularly when almost all one’s attitudes are firmly in what these people would call the SJW camp!
I read that Nathan Robinson piece, and found it very interesting – it was one of the kinds of comments on the original piece I was hoping/expecting to hear. I am handicapped by not knowing anything about any of the people mentioned, pretty much, so I took their descriptions at face value. I believed that these IDW types were both lefties and rightwingers, because that’s how they were described if I remember correctly. I’ve always thought (and said here) that the term Social Justice Warrior as an insult is weird/laughable/telling, because who with any decent impulses wouldn’t be a warrior for social justice?
But it’s also noticeable that there are some disturbing developments in the public and academic square, and even Nathan Robinson says While I get plenty exasperated by tactics like antifa and concepts like cultural appropriation, I think a lot of the supposed “illiberal leftism” emerges out of an anger at the sorts of people who love to talk but refuse to listen. I grew up minding that, for example, protests could be shut down or otherwise suppressed, and while I have as I matured accepted and believed that hate speech should be outlawed (as it is in the UK), I am very uncomfortable at seeing what I consider legitimate comment or criticism (even if wrongheaded in my opinion) labelled unacceptable and no-platformed (like Germaine Greer saying she doesn’t consider trans women to be women, and consequently being no-platformed in various UK universities).
It think it’s legitimate to be concerned about this kind of stuff, without being assumed to be illiberal oneself. Particularly when almost all one’s attitudes are firmly in what these people would call the SJW camp!
while I have as I matured accepted and believed that hate speech should be outlawed (as it is in the UK), I am very uncomfortable at seeing what I consider legitimate comment or criticism (even if wrongheaded in my opinion) labelled unacceptable and no-platformed…
The problem arises when “hate speech” gets so broadly defined as to preclude any disagreement which makes someone uncomfortable. Which, sadly, does happen. Hence the comments, up-thread, about the need to not let such over-broad definitions get accepted.
while I have as I matured accepted and believed that hate speech should be outlawed (as it is in the UK), I am very uncomfortable at seeing what I consider legitimate comment or criticism (even if wrongheaded in my opinion) labelled unacceptable and no-platformed…
The problem arises when “hate speech” gets so broadly defined as to preclude any disagreement which makes someone uncomfortable. Which, sadly, does happen. Hence the comments, up-thread, about the need to not let such over-broad definitions get accepted.
I think that social justice concerns on some college campuses are excessive, and find harms and harmful intents where none exist.
Things were pretty much like that when I was college, also, 40 years ago.
I think free speech has become a pretext for a lot of people who hold views ranging from the obnoxious to the abhorrent to feel entitled to sound off in every and any venue, and to claim that folks who object to that are bigots and illiberal hypocrites.
I think a lot of people are unclear on what, exactly, is guaranteed by the 1st A.
I’m sure that there are people who live in places, or who work in industries, where their points of view are in the minority, who feel discomfort about that. I’m not sure that amounts to persecution.
Not everyone is going to like you.
We embrace a very broad version of free speech in the US. You can publicly announce your belief that millions of your fellow citizens and neighbors should be assassinated and fed to dogs, and are legally free to do so, as long as you don’t follow that up by saying “so let’s go do that RIGHT NOW”.
That doesn’t mean everyone wants to listen to you, or that every print, broadcast, or other public venue needs to offer you a platform.
That’s what I think about it all.
I don’t know who most of the folks in the article are. I don’t know what they have to say, why they believe what they believe, or whether they’re sincere or just in it for the lulz and dollars.
I do know that a lot of what is commonly available in quite prominent venues seems, to me, to be hateful angry venomous bilious puke.
So, I can only imagine what it takes to be “assaulted” by a twitter storm sufficient to get bounced from the Atlantic.
A lot of so-called hate speech actually is hate speech. The government can’t prevent you from speaking it, but the rest of us aren’t required to listen, or to make a platform available to you at your demand.
Those are my thoughts.
I think that social justice concerns on some college campuses are excessive, and find harms and harmful intents where none exist.
Things were pretty much like that when I was college, also, 40 years ago.
I think free speech has become a pretext for a lot of people who hold views ranging from the obnoxious to the abhorrent to feel entitled to sound off in every and any venue, and to claim that folks who object to that are bigots and illiberal hypocrites.
I think a lot of people are unclear on what, exactly, is guaranteed by the 1st A.
I’m sure that there are people who live in places, or who work in industries, where their points of view are in the minority, who feel discomfort about that. I’m not sure that amounts to persecution.
Not everyone is going to like you.
We embrace a very broad version of free speech in the US. You can publicly announce your belief that millions of your fellow citizens and neighbors should be assassinated and fed to dogs, and are legally free to do so, as long as you don’t follow that up by saying “so let’s go do that RIGHT NOW”.
That doesn’t mean everyone wants to listen to you, or that every print, broadcast, or other public venue needs to offer you a platform.
That’s what I think about it all.
I don’t know who most of the folks in the article are. I don’t know what they have to say, why they believe what they believe, or whether they’re sincere or just in it for the lulz and dollars.
I do know that a lot of what is commonly available in quite prominent venues seems, to me, to be hateful angry venomous bilious puke.
So, I can only imagine what it takes to be “assaulted” by a twitter storm sufficient to get bounced from the Atlantic.
A lot of so-called hate speech actually is hate speech. The government can’t prevent you from speaking it, but the rest of us aren’t required to listen, or to make a platform available to you at your demand.
Those are my thoughts.
These are hard questions that will forever generate vexing gray areas, and lines that someone has to (or gets to) draw in places that will make other people unhappy.
Just some random reactions —
— I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university? (Which isn’t a free speech issue in the 1st A. sense, just to be clear.)
The world is full of a number (approx. 7.6 billion at the moment) of people with voices, and they can’t all have platforms IRL in universities or anywhere else, although the internet is doing a pretty good job of giving a vast number of them an outlet if they have something to say.
— A favorite saying, probably quoted many times before: “An idea isn’t responsible for the people who espouse it.” I find a lot of people I largely agree with politically to be sanctimonious a$$holes. Not in 5 million lifetimes would that make me go off in a huff and vote for the current occupant of the White House, just to spite them.
These are hard questions that will forever generate vexing gray areas, and lines that someone has to (or gets to) draw in places that will make other people unhappy.
Just some random reactions —
— I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university? (Which isn’t a free speech issue in the 1st A. sense, just to be clear.)
The world is full of a number (approx. 7.6 billion at the moment) of people with voices, and they can’t all have platforms IRL in universities or anywhere else, although the internet is doing a pretty good job of giving a vast number of them an outlet if they have something to say.
— A favorite saying, probably quoted many times before: “An idea isn’t responsible for the people who espouse it.” I find a lot of people I largely agree with politically to be sanctimonious a$$holes. Not in 5 million lifetimes would that make me go off in a huff and vote for the current occupant of the White House, just to spite them.
I find myself to be a sanctimonious a$$hole most of the time.
Unfortunately, I have to live with myself.
It has made me about as tolerant as I’m likely to be.
I find myself to be a sanctimonious a$$hole most of the time.
Unfortunately, I have to live with myself.
It has made me about as tolerant as I’m likely to be.
twitter. gack.
why do people expect civility and thoughtful discussion on a platform that is explicitly designed for one liners and off-handed comments?
twitter. gack.
why do people expect civility and thoughtful discussion on a platform that is explicitly designed for one liners and off-handed comments?
Also for clarity — I wrote my 6:03 without having seen russell’s 5:59, so it isn’t in intent a response to that. Although I think we do overlap, except for the part about whether russell is a sanctimonious etcetera. 😉
Also for clarity — I wrote my 6:03 without having seen russell’s 5:59, so it isn’t in intent a response to that. Although I think we do overlap, except for the part about whether russell is a sanctimonious etcetera. 😉
For anyone who’s interested, this is a summary of some of the hate speech legislation in the UK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom
You’ll see that it varies, because Scotland has a different legal system, but it’s an interesting overview and quotes various cases at the end, where people have been charged, and what happened.
Maybe most of what russell calls hateful angry venomous bilious puke would be covered by our legislation, I’d like to think so. I seem to remember, you won’t be surprised to hear, that a lot of the objection to the legislation came from comedians.
For anyone who’s interested, this is a summary of some of the hate speech legislation in the UK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom
You’ll see that it varies, because Scotland has a different legal system, but it’s an interesting overview and quotes various cases at the end, where people have been charged, and what happened.
Maybe most of what russell calls hateful angry venomous bilious puke would be covered by our legislation, I’d like to think so. I seem to remember, you won’t be surprised to hear, that a lot of the objection to the legislation came from comedians.
I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university?
From what I remember, Germaine Greer was invited to take part by people who wanted to hear what she had to say. Also, in all fairness and quite apart from her contributions to feminist literature, she has had a distinguished academic career teaching English literature.
I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university?
From what I remember, Germaine Greer was invited to take part by people who wanted to hear what she had to say. Also, in all fairness and quite apart from her contributions to feminist literature, she has had a distinguished academic career teaching English literature.
I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university?
From what I remember, Germaine Greer was invited to take part by people who wanted to hear what she had to say. Also, in all fairness and quite apart from her contributions to feminist literature, she has had a distinguished academic career teaching English literature.
I’m pretty close to being a free speech absolutist, but why does Germaine Greer deserve a platform in a university?
From what I remember, Germaine Greer was invited to take part by people who wanted to hear what she had to say. Also, in all fairness and quite apart from her contributions to feminist literature, she has had a distinguished academic career teaching English literature.
Sorry, I don’t know why it does that!
Sorry, I don’t know why it does that!
Intellectual Dark Web
Intellectual Dark Web
of the people on the website, I was aware of Hirsi Ali, Damore, and Paglia.
I personally don’t have a big problem with Hirsi Ali, but I can understand why many Moslems would.
Damore is a guy who got himself fired for being a disruptive jerk. In my opinion. And he’s been dining out on that ever since.
I have no problem with Paglia.
When I say I “have no problem”, I don’t mean I agree, I just mean I see no reason why that particular person should be prevented from saying what they say.
And, they’re not.
The couple who “stood up” to an “enforced day of absence” just don’t wow me. I know people who have gone to jail for expressing their point of view. My wife was at Kent State. Black people won the vote by being beaten with clubs and set upon by dogs.
Stuff like “standing up” to an “enforced day of absence” from a university teaching position just seems like small beer.
Just my two cents.
The rest of the folks, I don’t really know who they are, and the blurbs don’t grab my interest so I probably won’t really know who they are.
To each his or her own.
Anyway, thanks for the link.
of the people on the website, I was aware of Hirsi Ali, Damore, and Paglia.
I personally don’t have a big problem with Hirsi Ali, but I can understand why many Moslems would.
Damore is a guy who got himself fired for being a disruptive jerk. In my opinion. And he’s been dining out on that ever since.
I have no problem with Paglia.
When I say I “have no problem”, I don’t mean I agree, I just mean I see no reason why that particular person should be prevented from saying what they say.
And, they’re not.
The couple who “stood up” to an “enforced day of absence” just don’t wow me. I know people who have gone to jail for expressing their point of view. My wife was at Kent State. Black people won the vote by being beaten with clubs and set upon by dogs.
Stuff like “standing up” to an “enforced day of absence” from a university teaching position just seems like small beer.
Just my two cents.
The rest of the folks, I don’t really know who they are, and the blurbs don’t grab my interest so I probably won’t really know who they are.
To each his or her own.
Anyway, thanks for the link.
i guess what I’m saying, he went on to say, is that the whole “Intellectual Dark Web” thing just seems pretentious.
i guess what I’m saying, he went on to say, is that the whole “Intellectual Dark Web” thing just seems pretentious.
I would think Steven Pinker, and maybe Camille Paglia would be the most widely recognized. Pinker is the author of several best sellers. Paglia has been an outspoken opinion columnist for a long time. Most of the others have nitch audiences or come to a wider awareness by being involved in controversies.
I would think Steven Pinker, and maybe Camille Paglia would be the most widely recognized. Pinker is the author of several best sellers. Paglia has been an outspoken opinion columnist for a long time. Most of the others have nitch audiences or come to a wider awareness by being involved in controversies.
I guess I don’t understand the premise of the “IDW”. I’ve heard of many of these people, and they all seem to have jobs. What’s the problem again? Are they not getting the speaking fees they want?
I guess I don’t understand the premise of the “IDW”. I’ve heard of many of these people, and they all seem to have jobs. What’s the problem again? Are they not getting the speaking fees they want?
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
Oh well. I’m in favor of UBI, or federally guaranteed jobs, if that’s any solace.
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
Oh well. I’m in favor of UBI, or federally guaranteed jobs, if that’s any solace.
I find it somehow comforting that the news is confirming many of our suspicions that Trump & Co. is the American arm of the Russian mob. Obviously, it’s horrifying, but at least we know now. What’s depressing is (also just confirmation of what we suspected) that Congressional Republicans are complicit, or this would be the beginning of the end. Paul Ryan enabling Devin Nunes?
Hoping to lock them up. Yes. Jail time. Not sure it will happen. The US might be toast first, and democracy might die and we’ll be like Putin’s Russia, where brave protestors are … who knows what happens to them after they’re taken off?
But I’m hoping that they will be branded as traitors, and those of us who care about the promise our country represented will be able to carry on making it happen.
Reverend Barber and Liz Theoharis have it down, and I’m paying attention to them, as well as the SPLC and the IRC.
I find it somehow comforting that the news is confirming many of our suspicions that Trump & Co. is the American arm of the Russian mob. Obviously, it’s horrifying, but at least we know now. What’s depressing is (also just confirmation of what we suspected) that Congressional Republicans are complicit, or this would be the beginning of the end. Paul Ryan enabling Devin Nunes?
Hoping to lock them up. Yes. Jail time. Not sure it will happen. The US might be toast first, and democracy might die and we’ll be like Putin’s Russia, where brave protestors are … who knows what happens to them after they’re taken off?
But I’m hoping that they will be branded as traitors, and those of us who care about the promise our country represented will be able to carry on making it happen.
Reverend Barber and Liz Theoharis have it down, and I’m paying attention to them, as well as the SPLC and the IRC.
Sorry, part of my comment was incomprehensible. My comment window became shrunken somehow – maybe I need a manicure. Between the traitors and the conservative crybabies, I find my news fetish exhausting. Fiction may be a better use of my leisure time.
Sorry, part of my comment was incomprehensible. My comment window became shrunken somehow – maybe I need a manicure. Between the traitors and the conservative crybabies, I find my news fetish exhausting. Fiction may be a better use of my leisure time.
Sapient, maybe it’s just that fiction seems rather more plausible that reality just now.
Sapient, maybe it’s just that fiction seems rather more plausible that reality just now.
maybe I need a manicure
lol
i no longer make or even entertain predictions about where the trump circus will end up.
anything is possible.
maybe I need a manicure
lol
i no longer make or even entertain predictions about where the trump circus will end up.
anything is possible.
hrumpf….the ‘dark web’….just another example of conservative grift.
It is stunning that anybody gives such shit the time of day.
hrumpf….the ‘dark web’….just another example of conservative grift.
It is stunning that anybody gives such shit the time of day.
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
you’ve had my opinion about damore.
weinstein and heying quit evergreen, they were not fired, and they took a half million bucks with them as severance.
James Damore, Bret Weinstein, and Heather Heying are still between formal jobs I think.
you’ve had my opinion about damore.
weinstein and heying quit evergreen, they were not fired, and they took a half million bucks with them as severance.
“Intellectual Dark Web” reminds me of “Holy Roman Empire” as a catchy but questionable moniker.
“Intellectual”, like “holy” (or “handsome”, or “charming”), is a label one should avoid applying to oneself. To be fair, it’s not clear that the group calls itself that.
“Dark” is hardly compatible with being popular enough on non-traditional media to rake in $30K or more per month(!) via Patreon or whatever a NYT reporter may be in the dark about.
As for “web”, well: I have no doubt that appearing on each other’s podcasts connects these people to each other (the way commenting on ObWi connects us) but I’m not inclined to take that too seriously.
For instance, I’ve been watching YouTube videos of Sam Harris debating the leading lights of the New Theist Web for years now. (Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins, and Dennett were dubbed the Four Horsemen of the New Atheism at one point.) Harris is “connected” to such god-bothering “intellectuals” as William Lane Craig, Dinesh D’Souza, David Wolpe, and even Deepak Chopra. I wouldn’t call that a “web” in any but the loosest sense.
–TP
“Intellectual Dark Web” reminds me of “Holy Roman Empire” as a catchy but questionable moniker.
“Intellectual”, like “holy” (or “handsome”, or “charming”), is a label one should avoid applying to oneself. To be fair, it’s not clear that the group calls itself that.
“Dark” is hardly compatible with being popular enough on non-traditional media to rake in $30K or more per month(!) via Patreon or whatever a NYT reporter may be in the dark about.
As for “web”, well: I have no doubt that appearing on each other’s podcasts connects these people to each other (the way commenting on ObWi connects us) but I’m not inclined to take that too seriously.
For instance, I’ve been watching YouTube videos of Sam Harris debating the leading lights of the New Theist Web for years now. (Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins, and Dennett were dubbed the Four Horsemen of the New Atheism at one point.) Harris is “connected” to such god-bothering “intellectuals” as William Lane Craig, Dinesh D’Souza, David Wolpe, and even Deepak Chopra. I wouldn’t call that a “web” in any but the loosest sense.
–TP
Hell, being in the same room as D’Souza lowers everyone’s IQ 10 points. Dennett, who I think is pretty sharp, is not immune
Evidently, the debate did not result in warm fuzzies all around
Hell, being in the same room as D’Souza lowers everyone’s IQ 10 points. Dennett, who I think is pretty sharp, is not immune
Evidently, the debate did not result in warm fuzzies all around
seeing that the IDW site features Damore on the front page tells me all i need to know about their editorial standards. the guy is neither a thinker nor a writer. IDW is just trolling.
seeing that the IDW site features Damore on the front page tells me all i need to know about their editorial standards. the guy is neither a thinker nor a writer. IDW is just trolling.
GfNC:
Israel is ranked 87th (out of 180) by Reporters without Borders’ Press Freedom Index.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table
FWIW I’m against sanctions and boycotts of any kind – except for arms sales (and police/security related goods), where we should be much, much tougher as we produce most of them – but good luck with that…
GfNC:
Israel is ranked 87th (out of 180) by Reporters without Borders’ Press Freedom Index.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table
FWIW I’m against sanctions and boycotts of any kind – except for arms sales (and police/security related goods), where we should be much, much tougher as we produce most of them – but good luck with that…
Henry Farrell has a post up at CT, linking to a piece of his at Vox, about the IDW article. I’m going into a meeting right now but may say more about this later.
Henry Farrell has a post up at CT, linking to a piece of his at Vox, about the IDW article. I’m going into a meeting right now but may say more about this later.
that Farrell article was interesting.
i’d been thinking that the typical IDL person would have been called a “gadfly”, not too long ago.
though always around, they’re just on the outside of mainstream thought. and they seem to get off on throwing disruptive little bombs into the system and then giggling about how clever they are.
maybe they don’t get the exposure they used to get because people aren’t as willing to be disrupted by their shenanigans as they once were.
and if anyone thinks that’s the left’s fault, i’ve got a Fox News network to sell em.
that Farrell article was interesting.
i’d been thinking that the typical IDL person would have been called a “gadfly”, not too long ago.
though always around, they’re just on the outside of mainstream thought. and they seem to get off on throwing disruptive little bombs into the system and then giggling about how clever they are.
maybe they don’t get the exposure they used to get because people aren’t as willing to be disrupted by their shenanigans as they once were.
and if anyone thinks that’s the left’s fault, i’ve got a Fox News network to sell em.
Gadflies have traditionally reveled in their iconic outsiderness, and actually seem to enjoy the solitude.
These folks are wallowing in it, steeped in a self-pity that, in terms of intellectual inquiry, strikes me as quite base.
That, and their politics (as pointed out).
IMHO as usual 🙂
Gadflies have traditionally reveled in their iconic outsiderness, and actually seem to enjoy the solitude.
These folks are wallowing in it, steeped in a self-pity that, in terms of intellectual inquiry, strikes me as quite base.
That, and their politics (as pointed out).
IMHO as usual 🙂
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2018/05/dictioniaries-will-save-us.html
I’ve heard of nearly all of the individuals on the “Intellectual Dark Web” (cue some creepy music) and read many of them from time to time.
If they were unarmed black kids running from what passes for authority in this hoax called America and shouting over their shoulders that they are victims and then shot down in the back for their trouble, then maybe I’d have some empathy.
I’ll take up any conservative on their offer to pass legislation at the federal level prohibiting fire-at-will everywhere in America so Damore can get his job back at Google.
The First Amendment should apply in private workplaces across the country, not just in the public square.
Jagoffs need work too. Besides, the place to censure shits like Damore is at his neighborhood watering hole where he can shoot his mouth abiut his lessers and a female Google employee can cold-cock him and break every bone in his face.
Camilla Paglia, who I don’t mind, is censured and
has her speech limited like James Brown use to wear out, break down, and need Bobby to drape a cape over his slumping shoulders and hep him offstage. Hep me Bobby. I’m weak, I tell ya. I’m put-upon. I jes can’t carry this heavy load!! Mop my brow, Bobby! Owww!
She’s the hardest working woman in the show business of conservative victimhood and grievance. Oh, look, there she is throwing off the cape now and sliding on her knees to the edge of the stage for a rousing encore of “It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World.”
“Man thinks about a little baby girls and a baby boys
Man makes then happy ’cause man makes them toys
And after man has made everything, everything he can
You know that man makes money to buy from other man”
Ben Shapiro? Saying STFU to him is free speech protected by The First Amendment, the last I read the thing. I don’t even need a fucking militia to tell him to shut his mouth.
D’Souza? What ever happened to decent conservatives like Mike Tyson and Gary Busey, that we require D’Souza to projectile vomit his prissy, lying Brahmanism all over deplorables at republican diners.
Next question!
When will these shadowy figures skulking about like lepers in their dark colonies invite, say, federal weather scientists to the Dark Web (oooohhh) who are being gagged, their research censured by Beatle-hating pigfucking anti-science, book-burning blue meanies, by which I mean asshole republicans.
How bout the university scientists who have had their research grants halted because vermin conservatives paid by anti-First Amendment corporate superpeople to censure science can’t handle a little politically incorrect global warming data and prediction.
Are the departed and still present State Department professionals who have been threatened
if they voice their opinions going to be invited to the dark webinars?
Is Sally Yates permitted a voice on the dark web?
Obsidian Wings is a hell of a lot darker than anything these people think they have going.
How come Bari Weiss doesn’t write about us in the little known dark New York Times?
What, is she an elitist? Haven’t the fucks over at Redstate told us to shut up enough to qualify?
Maybe George Will is part of the dark web now?
Pull his credentials? as a piece of shit leader of the republican party suggested about the press at large the other day.
Here’s George:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-no-longer-the-worst-person-in-government/2018/05/09/10e59eba-52f1-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.b1733170080a
If Trevino were here, he could tell us what “oleaginous” means and then behave oleaginously toward Gary Farber to illustrate the definition.
My theory on the three returned hostages is that more than several of the 565 rotten thieving enterprises under the mp brand paid Kim Jong-un mucho big bucks to kidnap the three Americans and many Japanese citizens as well, just for this occasion.
Kim Jong-un, for his part, had handed over the nuclear test site that caved in recently to mp enterprises as a site for the new deluxe MP Hotel, Mar-a-Nuko, North Korea.
mp has promised that the American EPA will lend its expertise and will sign off on action to ameliorate all signs of radioactivity and other pollution, which is to say, none at all.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2018/05/dictioniaries-will-save-us.html
I’ve heard of nearly all of the individuals on the “Intellectual Dark Web” (cue some creepy music) and read many of them from time to time.
If they were unarmed black kids running from what passes for authority in this hoax called America and shouting over their shoulders that they are victims and then shot down in the back for their trouble, then maybe I’d have some empathy.
I’ll take up any conservative on their offer to pass legislation at the federal level prohibiting fire-at-will everywhere in America so Damore can get his job back at Google.
The First Amendment should apply in private workplaces across the country, not just in the public square.
Jagoffs need work too. Besides, the place to censure shits like Damore is at his neighborhood watering hole where he can shoot his mouth abiut his lessers and a female Google employee can cold-cock him and break every bone in his face.
Camilla Paglia, who I don’t mind, is censured and
has her speech limited like James Brown use to wear out, break down, and need Bobby to drape a cape over his slumping shoulders and hep him offstage. Hep me Bobby. I’m weak, I tell ya. I’m put-upon. I jes can’t carry this heavy load!! Mop my brow, Bobby! Owww!
She’s the hardest working woman in the show business of conservative victimhood and grievance. Oh, look, there she is throwing off the cape now and sliding on her knees to the edge of the stage for a rousing encore of “It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World.”
“Man thinks about a little baby girls and a baby boys
Man makes then happy ’cause man makes them toys
And after man has made everything, everything he can
You know that man makes money to buy from other man”
Ben Shapiro? Saying STFU to him is free speech protected by The First Amendment, the last I read the thing. I don’t even need a fucking militia to tell him to shut his mouth.
D’Souza? What ever happened to decent conservatives like Mike Tyson and Gary Busey, that we require D’Souza to projectile vomit his prissy, lying Brahmanism all over deplorables at republican diners.
Next question!
When will these shadowy figures skulking about like lepers in their dark colonies invite, say, federal weather scientists to the Dark Web (oooohhh) who are being gagged, their research censured by Beatle-hating pigfucking anti-science, book-burning blue meanies, by which I mean asshole republicans.
How bout the university scientists who have had their research grants halted because vermin conservatives paid by anti-First Amendment corporate superpeople to censure science can’t handle a little politically incorrect global warming data and prediction.
Are the departed and still present State Department professionals who have been threatened
if they voice their opinions going to be invited to the dark webinars?
Is Sally Yates permitted a voice on the dark web?
Obsidian Wings is a hell of a lot darker than anything these people think they have going.
How come Bari Weiss doesn’t write about us in the little known dark New York Times?
What, is she an elitist? Haven’t the fucks over at Redstate told us to shut up enough to qualify?
Maybe George Will is part of the dark web now?
Pull his credentials? as a piece of shit leader of the republican party suggested about the press at large the other day.
Here’s George:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-no-longer-the-worst-person-in-government/2018/05/09/10e59eba-52f1-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.b1733170080a
If Trevino were here, he could tell us what “oleaginous” means and then behave oleaginously toward Gary Farber to illustrate the definition.
My theory on the three returned hostages is that more than several of the 565 rotten thieving enterprises under the mp brand paid Kim Jong-un mucho big bucks to kidnap the three Americans and many Japanese citizens as well, just for this occasion.
Kim Jong-un, for his part, had handed over the nuclear test site that caved in recently to mp enterprises as a site for the new deluxe MP Hotel, Mar-a-Nuko, North Korea.
mp has promised that the American EPA will lend its expertise and will sign off on action to ameliorate all signs of radioactivity and other pollution, which is to say, none at all.
Rents at MAR-a-Lago soared after the election.
Payments to Michael Cohen, a guy mp doesn’t know, soared after the election.
Special snowflakes at EPA and Interior, hired to fuck EPA and Interior, had exorbitantly higher wages paid the them to piss on America.
Wages for Americans, not so much:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/wages-aren't-growing-at-all/
Rents at MAR-a-Lago soared after the election.
Payments to Michael Cohen, a guy mp doesn’t know, soared after the election.
Special snowflakes at EPA and Interior, hired to fuck EPA and Interior, had exorbitantly higher wages paid the them to piss on America.
Wages for Americans, not so much:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/wages-aren't-growing-at-all/
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/you-work-for-trump-youre-going-to-be.html
Kirstjen Nielsen, candidate for dark web What’s My Line
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/you-work-for-trump-youre-going-to-be.html
Kirstjen Nielsen, candidate for dark web What’s My Line
Where on the dark web are these two very very fucked up representatives of the gruesome freak show the filthy scum republican party has become going to hide when John McCain recovers at great expense to the taxpayer, despite republican efforts to take his health insurance from him, and tracks them down to kill them:
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/lower-than-low.html
What say the Death Palin?
Where on the dark web are these two very very fucked up representatives of the gruesome freak show the filthy scum republican party has become going to hide when John McCain recovers at great expense to the taxpayer, despite republican efforts to take his health insurance from him, and tracks them down to kill them:
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/lower-than-low.html
What say the Death Palin?
If you are non-Christian and you are run out of your town, will the Intellectual Dark Web take you in?
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a20650394/bay-view-michigan-non-christians/
Or is running non-Christians out of town just another conservative “idea”, like executing women who abort, that should be given respectful attention and kind of chewed over and considered as just another policy choice in the realm of great ideas.
Is laughing at you OK?
Or does that hurt conservative feelings, too.
Tell us how we must show our displeasure.
And shouldn’t you be taking our guns away from us if we are so threatening?
If you are non-Christian and you are run out of your town, will the Intellectual Dark Web take you in?
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a20650394/bay-view-michigan-non-christians/
Or is running non-Christians out of town just another conservative “idea”, like executing women who abort, that should be given respectful attention and kind of chewed over and considered as just another policy choice in the realm of great ideas.
Is laughing at you OK?
Or does that hurt conservative feelings, too.
Tell us how we must show our displeasure.
And shouldn’t you be taking our guns away from us if we are so threatening?
THE FAILURE OF THE NEW YORK TIMES TO GIVE ME A WEEKLY COLUMN (and I will not charge them ONE ‘EFFING THIN DIME-supply/demand, duh) IS PROOF OF THEIR SUPPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH, SCREECHED BOBBYP.
SIT DOWN LOSER!
OK….BUT YOU HAVE HURT MY FEELINGS. IS THERE ANY MORE PROOF OF THE OPPRESSIVE NATURE OF THE NEOLIBERAL CONSENSUS NEEDEEEED?
I AND OLD AND REST MY CASE. whew.
THE FAILURE OF THE NEW YORK TIMES TO GIVE ME A WEEKLY COLUMN (and I will not charge them ONE ‘EFFING THIN DIME-supply/demand, duh) IS PROOF OF THEIR SUPPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH, SCREECHED BOBBYP.
SIT DOWN LOSER!
OK….BUT YOU HAVE HURT MY FEELINGS. IS THERE ANY MORE PROOF OF THE OPPRESSIVE NATURE OF THE NEOLIBERAL CONSENSUS NEEDEEEED?
I AND OLD AND REST MY CASE. whew.
in the future, everyone will be a NYT editorial columnist for 15 minutes.
in the future, everyone will be a NYT editorial columnist for 15 minutes.
LOL
LOL
Two more candidates for the Intellectual Dark Web:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/early-theranos-investor-tim-draper-defends-elizabeth-holmes-and-her-vision.html
Is there a fake blood test for martyrdom?
At one point in our culture, the Intellectual Dark Web was called vaudeville.
It’s amazing how far you can get in America by dropping a seltzer bottle down the front of your clown pants and calling it crucifixion and then getting your own show in prime time and living off the stigmata.
Two more candidates for the Intellectual Dark Web:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/early-theranos-investor-tim-draper-defends-elizabeth-holmes-and-her-vision.html
Is there a fake blood test for martyrdom?
At one point in our culture, the Intellectual Dark Web was called vaudeville.
It’s amazing how far you can get in America by dropping a seltzer bottle down the front of your clown pants and calling it crucifixion and then getting your own show in prime time and living off the stigmata.
D’Souza, the campus social justice warrior/affirmative action/boy journalist at Dartmouth had to hide and go underground like Salman Rushdie evading fatwas.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/dinesh-dsouza-indictment-dartmouth-outed-gay-classmates/
He hid in plain sight, utterly repressed and denied recognition, in the Reagan Administration, at the National Review, at King’s College while schtupping .. the Old Testament Christian term for plighting as many troths as are available … another woman not his wife, on the Bill Maher show and appearing on a succession of Regnery Press dust jackets in a niqab to hide his parents’ neglect of his childhood dentistry in Goa.
Recently, he has been relegated to touring small mid-western and Texas towns, showing up at diners to offer solace to republicans who have never seen a darkie up close, except when Breitbart and NRO would run pictures of Obama with extra melanin to prove his supernatural powers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza
I love this formulation:
‘D’Souza has argued the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse scandal was a result of “the sexual immodesty of liberal America.”‘
I don’t know, I thought Lynndie England was kind of hot. I’ve often wondered what would have transpired if Charlie Rose had dropped trou during her job interview.
She is perhaps the only woman who could lend justification to Bill Cosby’s methods of seduction, as long as she passed out between the time she tied me up and the commencement of the waterboarding and the car battery testicle tittilations.
Regarding the students who survived the Florida school murders D’Souza tweeted “worst news since their parents told them to get summer jobs”
See, as with mp, D’Souza, and his mixed-race step sister and Dartmouth alum Laura Ingrahm, their only problem is that no one has punched their lights out and kept at it.
D’Souza, the campus social justice warrior/affirmative action/boy journalist at Dartmouth had to hide and go underground like Salman Rushdie evading fatwas.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/dinesh-dsouza-indictment-dartmouth-outed-gay-classmates/
He hid in plain sight, utterly repressed and denied recognition, in the Reagan Administration, at the National Review, at King’s College while schtupping .. the Old Testament Christian term for plighting as many troths as are available … another woman not his wife, on the Bill Maher show and appearing on a succession of Regnery Press dust jackets in a niqab to hide his parents’ neglect of his childhood dentistry in Goa.
Recently, he has been relegated to touring small mid-western and Texas towns, showing up at diners to offer solace to republicans who have never seen a darkie up close, except when Breitbart and NRO would run pictures of Obama with extra melanin to prove his supernatural powers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza
I love this formulation:
‘D’Souza has argued the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse scandal was a result of “the sexual immodesty of liberal America.”‘
I don’t know, I thought Lynndie England was kind of hot. I’ve often wondered what would have transpired if Charlie Rose had dropped trou during her job interview.
She is perhaps the only woman who could lend justification to Bill Cosby’s methods of seduction, as long as she passed out between the time she tied me up and the commencement of the waterboarding and the car battery testicle tittilations.
Regarding the students who survived the Florida school murders D’Souza tweeted “worst news since their parents told them to get summer jobs”
See, as with mp, D’Souza, and his mixed-race step sister and Dartmouth alum Laura Ingrahm, their only problem is that no one has punched their lights out and kept at it.
“in the future, everyone will be a NYT editorial columnist for 15 minutes.”
America is karaoke everything.
“in the future, everyone will be a NYT editorial columnist for 15 minutes.”
America is karaoke everything.
In response to the Count’s (implied) question I post this ancient limerick:
There was an old man of Calcutta
Who coated his tonsils with butter,
Thus converting his snore
From a horrible roar
To a soft oleaginous mutter.
In response to the Count’s (implied) question I post this ancient limerick:
There was an old man of Calcutta
Who coated his tonsils with butter,
Thus converting his snore
From a horrible roar
To a soft oleaginous mutter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/opinion/intellectual-dark-web-red-pilled.html
Apparently, if we don’t listen to, respectfully debate, and engage with mp-supporting anti-Semites, for example, over chardonnay and hot dogs, they may just have to go right ahead and gas the Jews because of hurt conservative fee-fees.
There may be something to the idea that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only rabbis in Germany and Austria had distributed and read from Hitler’s Mein Kampf in the synagogues, thus boosting the book’s receipts and making the brownshirts feel included and wanted.
It was merely the mystique of the forbidden that made them do what they ultimately did.
As to Chinese garb worn to an American prom, some silly people should just get over it and STFU.
But still, protesting against this trivial instance of cultural misappropriation shouldn’t let the alt-Right think they can move on to the next logical step in their poverty-stricken minds, putting forth proposals for a lifelike reenactment of the Rape of Nanking.
I thought the Times columnist bringing up her changed feelings about Zionism over Zionist oppression of Palestinians was interesting, but I haven’t heard of any dark websters being denied the use of public streets, though a few of THEM might think it brightly edgy to propose privatizing all public streets in America so that purveyors of cakes to LGBT weddings could be stopped and questioned mid-delivery and the Trayvon Martin types could at least be shot dead for trespassing.
As to cultural appropriation, I get that Native Americans and African Americans might feel a little pissed off about major league baseball mascots and the wearing of daishikis misappropriated by guys like me given that what should have happened is that all interlopers like me should have been slaughtered in ours beds for our ancestors’ murderous depredations of those two groups for centuries, but Native Americans and blacks let that go with hardly any legitimate and commensurate push back, so could we at least not play Halloween with their finery, please?
If Rod Dreher doesn’t like it, and believe me, the fine hairs of his antennae detect and call out every daily insult to his sensibilities …
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/profaning-sacred-met-gala-rihanna-dolan/
… then what’s the problem?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/opinion/intellectual-dark-web-red-pilled.html
Apparently, if we don’t listen to, respectfully debate, and engage with mp-supporting anti-Semites, for example, over chardonnay and hot dogs, they may just have to go right ahead and gas the Jews because of hurt conservative fee-fees.
There may be something to the idea that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only rabbis in Germany and Austria had distributed and read from Hitler’s Mein Kampf in the synagogues, thus boosting the book’s receipts and making the brownshirts feel included and wanted.
It was merely the mystique of the forbidden that made them do what they ultimately did.
As to Chinese garb worn to an American prom, some silly people should just get over it and STFU.
But still, protesting against this trivial instance of cultural misappropriation shouldn’t let the alt-Right think they can move on to the next logical step in their poverty-stricken minds, putting forth proposals for a lifelike reenactment of the Rape of Nanking.
I thought the Times columnist bringing up her changed feelings about Zionism over Zionist oppression of Palestinians was interesting, but I haven’t heard of any dark websters being denied the use of public streets, though a few of THEM might think it brightly edgy to propose privatizing all public streets in America so that purveyors of cakes to LGBT weddings could be stopped and questioned mid-delivery and the Trayvon Martin types could at least be shot dead for trespassing.
As to cultural appropriation, I get that Native Americans and African Americans might feel a little pissed off about major league baseball mascots and the wearing of daishikis misappropriated by guys like me given that what should have happened is that all interlopers like me should have been slaughtered in ours beds for our ancestors’ murderous depredations of those two groups for centuries, but Native Americans and blacks let that go with hardly any legitimate and commensurate push back, so could we at least not play Halloween with their finery, please?
If Rod Dreher doesn’t like it, and believe me, the fine hairs of his antennae detect and call out every daily insult to his sensibilities …
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/profaning-sacred-met-gala-rihanna-dolan/
… then what’s the problem?
I admit to feeling like “cultural appropriation” is actually an acknowledgement of the merits of whatever is being “borrowed” (which is the term anthropologists use). Why get upset at someone acknowledging the superiority of part of your culture?
And I have to point out that, when it is parts of Western culture being borrowed, nobody in the West gets outraged. Rather it’s the folks (often the same folks!) in the culture doing the borrowing who get upset. Perhaps, although I don’t know that they frame it this way, what they really want is total cultural isolation. Which the entire span of human history, and pre-history, make clear is simply not happening.
I admit to feeling like “cultural appropriation” is actually an acknowledgement of the merits of whatever is being “borrowed” (which is the term anthropologists use). Why get upset at someone acknowledging the superiority of part of your culture?
And I have to point out that, when it is parts of Western culture being borrowed, nobody in the West gets outraged. Rather it’s the folks (often the same folks!) in the culture doing the borrowing who get upset. Perhaps, although I don’t know that they frame it this way, what they really want is total cultural isolation. Which the entire span of human history, and pre-history, make clear is simply not happening.
There once was an old woman in Minsk
Who whined about music she thinks stinks,
The Beatles were awful,
The Stones unlawful,
But she had a little jones for the Kinks.
There once was an old woman in Minsk
Who whined about music she thinks stinks,
The Beatles were awful,
The Stones unlawful,
But she had a little jones for the Kinks.