by liberal japonicus
Adam Gopnik's piece about Trump and his failure to find anyone of any stature to play at his inauguration, except those he can order to do so, is food for thought.
And so the inability, so far, of Donald Trump to get any significant musicians from any of those traditions, rock or country or blues or Broadway, to sing at his Inauguration is not a small comic detail but a significant reflection of this moment in history. It reminds us of just how aberrant Trump and Trumpism is. When the Rockettes have to be coerced to appear at your show—or you’re left to boast of the military bands, directly under your orders, who are playing—one is witnessing not just some snobbish hostility on the part of “Hollywood” entertainers but a deeper abyss between the man about to assume power and the shared traditions of the country he represents. There is no music in this man.
As they say, read the whole thing.
It’s a good piece. I thought if it this morning when I was rereading Coates remarkable long for piece on the Obama presidency, which certainly bears a second reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/my-president-was-black/508793/
It’s a good piece. I thought if it this morning when I was rereading Coates remarkable long for piece on the Obama presidency, which certainly bears a second reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/my-president-was-black/508793/
It’s a good piece. I thought if it this morning when I was rereading Coates remarkable long for piece on the Obama presidency, which certainly bears a second reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/my-president-was-black/508793/
The Coates piece is great. Several folks have said that the backlash against Clinton couldn’t have been racist because Obama won two times, but it seems to me that the racist backlash (and I do think that because Clinton was basically going to continue Obama’s policies, you have to view her candidacy as a continuation of Obama’s presidency) occurs because of a building up of racial resentment. Not the only reason, but definitely in the mix.
The Coates piece is great. Several folks have said that the backlash against Clinton couldn’t have been racist because Obama won two times, but it seems to me that the racist backlash (and I do think that because Clinton was basically going to continue Obama’s policies, you have to view her candidacy as a continuation of Obama’s presidency) occurs because of a building up of racial resentment. Not the only reason, but definitely in the mix.
The Coates piece is great. Several folks have said that the backlash against Clinton couldn’t have been racist because Obama won two times, but it seems to me that the racist backlash (and I do think that because Clinton was basically going to continue Obama’s policies, you have to view her candidacy as a continuation of Obama’s presidency) occurs because of a building up of racial resentment. Not the only reason, but definitely in the mix.
Another factor in musicians’ allergy to Trump: He frequently used various artists’ songs without permission. One example. There were others.
Another factor in musicians’ allergy to Trump: He frequently used various artists’ songs without permission. One example. There were others.
Another factor in musicians’ allergy to Trump: He frequently used various artists’ songs without permission. One example. There were others.
The piece gets at prior discussions of the potential for Trump’s removal from office and the nature of a subsequent Pence presidency. Pence is a normal sort of bad – a typical Republican from the religionist wing. On some points, he may well be worse than Trump, but he’s not likely to burn the house down.
The problem as I see it is that Pence will get his way most of the time, anyway, with Trump as president, because Trump mostly doesn’t give a sh1t either way about those things that are important to Pence and his like (e.g. women’s reproductive health, protection of basic LGBTQ rights, prayer in schools, etc.). If letting the religionists have their way garners Trump more support and more power, he’ll let them have their way, so long as it allows him to remove the traditional restrictions placed on him by our constitutional system of government.
If some number of people voted for Trump at least party out of economic anxiety, I can now claim political anxiety as a large part of my motivation in opposing Trump. Reading things like the linked New Yorker piece arouse that anxiety in me, not that I blame the writers of such pieces. I blame Trump and the people who voted for him.
The piece gets at prior discussions of the potential for Trump’s removal from office and the nature of a subsequent Pence presidency. Pence is a normal sort of bad – a typical Republican from the religionist wing. On some points, he may well be worse than Trump, but he’s not likely to burn the house down.
The problem as I see it is that Pence will get his way most of the time, anyway, with Trump as president, because Trump mostly doesn’t give a sh1t either way about those things that are important to Pence and his like (e.g. women’s reproductive health, protection of basic LGBTQ rights, prayer in schools, etc.). If letting the religionists have their way garners Trump more support and more power, he’ll let them have their way, so long as it allows him to remove the traditional restrictions placed on him by our constitutional system of government.
If some number of people voted for Trump at least party out of economic anxiety, I can now claim political anxiety as a large part of my motivation in opposing Trump. Reading things like the linked New Yorker piece arouse that anxiety in me, not that I blame the writers of such pieces. I blame Trump and the people who voted for him.
The piece gets at prior discussions of the potential for Trump’s removal from office and the nature of a subsequent Pence presidency. Pence is a normal sort of bad – a typical Republican from the religionist wing. On some points, he may well be worse than Trump, but he’s not likely to burn the house down.
The problem as I see it is that Pence will get his way most of the time, anyway, with Trump as president, because Trump mostly doesn’t give a sh1t either way about those things that are important to Pence and his like (e.g. women’s reproductive health, protection of basic LGBTQ rights, prayer in schools, etc.). If letting the religionists have their way garners Trump more support and more power, he’ll let them have their way, so long as it allows him to remove the traditional restrictions placed on him by our constitutional system of government.
If some number of people voted for Trump at least party out of economic anxiety, I can now claim political anxiety as a large part of my motivation in opposing Trump. Reading things like the linked New Yorker piece arouse that anxiety in me, not that I blame the writers of such pieces. I blame Trump and the people who voted for him.
Toby Keith is headlining. I don’t follow country, so I don’t know if he’s an “A list” guy or not. And Lee Greenwood, which is sort of inevitable, I guess. And John Voight, who hopefully won’t sing.
Those folks are probably all into it.
The rest of the folks, I have never heard of. DJ Ravidrums? The Piano Guys?
Why won’t most people with actual careers perform for Trump?
Because he is a toxic human being and nobody wants to be associated with him. Because he’s a litigious creep who doesn’t pay people, and then buries them in countersuits if they take him to court.
There is no upside.
The folks who signed on need to make sure they are paid in full in advance. Make sure the check clears before the day of the performance. Better yet, get cash. And have your people on site to make sure all agrred-upon conditions are met.
Toby Keith is headlining. I don’t follow country, so I don’t know if he’s an “A list” guy or not. And Lee Greenwood, which is sort of inevitable, I guess. And John Voight, who hopefully won’t sing.
Those folks are probably all into it.
The rest of the folks, I have never heard of. DJ Ravidrums? The Piano Guys?
Why won’t most people with actual careers perform for Trump?
Because he is a toxic human being and nobody wants to be associated with him. Because he’s a litigious creep who doesn’t pay people, and then buries them in countersuits if they take him to court.
There is no upside.
The folks who signed on need to make sure they are paid in full in advance. Make sure the check clears before the day of the performance. Better yet, get cash. And have your people on site to make sure all agrred-upon conditions are met.
Toby Keith is headlining. I don’t follow country, so I don’t know if he’s an “A list” guy or not. And Lee Greenwood, which is sort of inevitable, I guess. And John Voight, who hopefully won’t sing.
Those folks are probably all into it.
The rest of the folks, I have never heard of. DJ Ravidrums? The Piano Guys?
Why won’t most people with actual careers perform for Trump?
Because he is a toxic human being and nobody wants to be associated with him. Because he’s a litigious creep who doesn’t pay people, and then buries them in countersuits if they take him to court.
There is no upside.
The folks who signed on need to make sure they are paid in full in advance. Make sure the check clears before the day of the performance. Better yet, get cash. And have your people on site to make sure all agrred-upon conditions are met.
I just read that Ted Nugent won’t be performing at the Inaugural, those he was reported as a headliner in December.
I wonder if he dropped out because someone told him he couldn’t use live ammo during his performance, probably the DC National Guard, which is why its commander got the sack.
Maybe Bannon noticed that Nugent used his left hand to grab his junk when he told the Blue States to “suck on this” the day before the election. I could see left-handedness being a problem for these people.
Did some grocery shopping yesterday so I was able to catch up on the real news from the National Enquirer, the trump organ. Headlines included “America and Russia Will Work Together to Destroy China”, “Trump to Attack and Overthrow North Korea and Iranian Regimes”, because I love me some geopolitical news along with “Mickey Rooney’s Corpse Abducted by alt-Right Aliens and Given Breast Enhancement Surgery.
I look forward to the Enquirer center spread later in the year of terminal Obamacare patients having their catheters ripped out of their abdomens as these Republican ilk call them niggers, kikes, fags, and towelheads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5KrRGfJBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Uso_u7c4
Must be economic anxiety.
Try that when I’m in the store. C’mon. Talk to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfDjvhsdQoo
I just read that Ted Nugent won’t be performing at the Inaugural, those he was reported as a headliner in December.
I wonder if he dropped out because someone told him he couldn’t use live ammo during his performance, probably the DC National Guard, which is why its commander got the sack.
Maybe Bannon noticed that Nugent used his left hand to grab his junk when he told the Blue States to “suck on this” the day before the election. I could see left-handedness being a problem for these people.
Did some grocery shopping yesterday so I was able to catch up on the real news from the National Enquirer, the trump organ. Headlines included “America and Russia Will Work Together to Destroy China”, “Trump to Attack and Overthrow North Korea and Iranian Regimes”, because I love me some geopolitical news along with “Mickey Rooney’s Corpse Abducted by alt-Right Aliens and Given Breast Enhancement Surgery.
I look forward to the Enquirer center spread later in the year of terminal Obamacare patients having their catheters ripped out of their abdomens as these Republican ilk call them niggers, kikes, fags, and towelheads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5KrRGfJBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Uso_u7c4
Must be economic anxiety.
Try that when I’m in the store. C’mon. Talk to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfDjvhsdQoo
I just read that Ted Nugent won’t be performing at the Inaugural, those he was reported as a headliner in December.
I wonder if he dropped out because someone told him he couldn’t use live ammo during his performance, probably the DC National Guard, which is why its commander got the sack.
Maybe Bannon noticed that Nugent used his left hand to grab his junk when he told the Blue States to “suck on this” the day before the election. I could see left-handedness being a problem for these people.
Did some grocery shopping yesterday so I was able to catch up on the real news from the National Enquirer, the trump organ. Headlines included “America and Russia Will Work Together to Destroy China”, “Trump to Attack and Overthrow North Korea and Iranian Regimes”, because I love me some geopolitical news along with “Mickey Rooney’s Corpse Abducted by alt-Right Aliens and Given Breast Enhancement Surgery.
I look forward to the Enquirer center spread later in the year of terminal Obamacare patients having their catheters ripped out of their abdomens as these Republican ilk call them niggers, kikes, fags, and towelheads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5KrRGfJBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Uso_u7c4
Must be economic anxiety.
Try that when I’m in the store. C’mon. Talk to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfDjvhsdQoo
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/johnwright/trump_doubles_down_on_attack_of_john_lewis_cancels_trip_to_african_american_museum
“He will commemorate MLK …. in another way.”
Word has it he will break ground on April 4 at the shiny new James Earle Ray Memorial Shrine in Jeff Sessions’ hometown. The off to the opening of the new King Kong movie.
He will also propose a Sirhan Sirhan Museum to commemorate the only one of “Those People” who contributed to the advancement of white people.
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/johnwright/trump_doubles_down_on_attack_of_john_lewis_cancels_trip_to_african_american_museum
“He will commemorate MLK …. in another way.”
Word has it he will break ground on April 4 at the shiny new James Earle Ray Memorial Shrine in Jeff Sessions’ hometown. The off to the opening of the new King Kong movie.
He will also propose a Sirhan Sirhan Museum to commemorate the only one of “Those People” who contributed to the advancement of white people.
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/johnwright/trump_doubles_down_on_attack_of_john_lewis_cancels_trip_to_african_american_museum
“He will commemorate MLK …. in another way.”
Word has it he will break ground on April 4 at the shiny new James Earle Ray Memorial Shrine in Jeff Sessions’ hometown. The off to the opening of the new King Kong movie.
He will also propose a Sirhan Sirhan Museum to commemorate the only one of “Those People” who contributed to the advancement of white people.
What it shows is the arrogance of the liberal elite who have decided they own music and all other creative arts and the careers of the artists, so no one can perform without the threat of the cybercascade and elite backlash.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
What it shows is the arrogance of the liberal elite who have decided they own music and all other creative arts and the careers of the artists, so no one can perform without the threat of the cybercascade and elite backlash.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
What it shows is the arrogance of the liberal elite who have decided they own music and all other creative arts and the careers of the artists, so no one can perform without the threat of the cybercascade and elite backlash.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
Steve Bannon might point out to you that it’s the Jews who own the music and the arts in this country and that will change as soon as we become more like Poland.
Steve Bannon might point out to you that it’s the Jews who own the music and the arts in this country and that will change as soon as we become more like Poland.
Steve Bannon might point out to you that it’s the Jews who own the music and the arts in this country and that will change as soon as we become more like Poland.
“Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.”
Now that you have the Justice Department under Jeff Sessions, it’s no contest.
“Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.”
Now that you have the Justice Department under Jeff Sessions, it’s no contest.
“Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.”
Now that you have the Justice Department under Jeff Sessions, it’s no contest.
@marty–have you considered that this may be related to this particular president-electoral college? after all, people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events despite his unpopularity with liberals.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
@marty–have you considered that this may be related to this particular president-electoral college? after all, people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events despite his unpopularity with liberals.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
@marty–have you considered that this may be related to this particular president-electoral college? after all, people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events despite his unpopularity with liberals.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
Word has it that this guy will be pardoned the morning of the Inaugural so he can serve as guest producer for the trump show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DX45pE4dNU&list=PLyVCZMRmwd_ZECVdAH0dDUcb44R6PNRfu
Word has it that this guy will be pardoned the morning of the Inaugural so he can serve as guest producer for the trump show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DX45pE4dNU&list=PLyVCZMRmwd_ZECVdAH0dDUcb44R6PNRfu
Word has it that this guy will be pardoned the morning of the Inaugural so he can serve as guest producer for the trump show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DX45pE4dNU&list=PLyVCZMRmwd_ZECVdAH0dDUcb44R6PNRfu
Sorry for double post, didn’t know which thread this should rightly go in:
Pence could very possibly be more corrosive to policies than Trump. However, Trump is more likely to be corrosive to institutions. Both are bad, and either can be worse than the other in specific circumstances, but the former is obviously easier to roll back after a regime change.
I think this distinction is exactly right, and the conclusion too.
I stand with John Lewis.
I’m guessing most people here do too, if you mean with John Lewis’s values, and character. Interestingly, I heard on the radio that Pence is making conciliatory remarks to him, trying to get him to come to the inauguration after all. Regarding the legitimacy or otherwise of the election, here’s hoping something irrefutable emerges; one thing’s for sure, it won’t be coming from Russia. It’s hysterically funny that Trump seems to think it aids his case to say “Russia says it isn’t true”, it’s almost as if he hasn’t understood the substance of the accusation….
Sorry for double post, didn’t know which thread this should rightly go in:
Pence could very possibly be more corrosive to policies than Trump. However, Trump is more likely to be corrosive to institutions. Both are bad, and either can be worse than the other in specific circumstances, but the former is obviously easier to roll back after a regime change.
I think this distinction is exactly right, and the conclusion too.
I stand with John Lewis.
I’m guessing most people here do too, if you mean with John Lewis’s values, and character. Interestingly, I heard on the radio that Pence is making conciliatory remarks to him, trying to get him to come to the inauguration after all. Regarding the legitimacy or otherwise of the election, here’s hoping something irrefutable emerges; one thing’s for sure, it won’t be coming from Russia. It’s hysterically funny that Trump seems to think it aids his case to say “Russia says it isn’t true”, it’s almost as if he hasn’t understood the substance of the accusation….
Sorry for double post, didn’t know which thread this should rightly go in:
Pence could very possibly be more corrosive to policies than Trump. However, Trump is more likely to be corrosive to institutions. Both are bad, and either can be worse than the other in specific circumstances, but the former is obviously easier to roll back after a regime change.
I think this distinction is exactly right, and the conclusion too.
I stand with John Lewis.
I’m guessing most people here do too, if you mean with John Lewis’s values, and character. Interestingly, I heard on the radio that Pence is making conciliatory remarks to him, trying to get him to come to the inauguration after all. Regarding the legitimacy or otherwise of the election, here’s hoping something irrefutable emerges; one thing’s for sure, it won’t be coming from Russia. It’s hysterically funny that Trump seems to think it aids his case to say “Russia says it isn’t true”, it’s almost as if he hasn’t understood the substance of the accusation….
Who wouldn’t want to perform at Mr. Grab them by the Pussy Mexicans are rapists inauguration? Liberal haters, that’s who.
Who wouldn’t want to perform at Mr. Grab them by the Pussy Mexicans are rapists inauguration? Liberal haters, that’s who.
Who wouldn’t want to perform at Mr. Grab them by the Pussy Mexicans are rapists inauguration? Liberal haters, that’s who.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
Don’t worry, Marty is still on the fence. It must be tough to balance a laptop up there, cause he didn’t read the article, just reacted, as per usual.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
Don’t worry, Marty is still on the fence. It must be tough to balance a laptop up there, cause he didn’t read the article, just reacted, as per usual.
or are you saying taking that into account when you say hate is hate and implying that it is being directed solely at the donald?
Don’t worry, Marty is still on the fence. It must be tough to balance a laptop up there, cause he didn’t read the article, just reacted, as per usual.
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
I’d be more persuaded by the argument that the performers are part of the liberal elite, rather than fearing it.
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
I’d be more persuaded by the argument that the performers are part of the liberal elite, rather than fearing it.
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
I’d be more persuaded by the argument that the performers are part of the liberal elite, rather than fearing it.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-trump-administration-white-house-press-corps
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-trump-administration-white-house-press-corps
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-trump-administration-white-house-press-corps
Marty,
Liberals are attempting a sort of artistic boycott of Trump’s inauguration. Such boycotts (& we can all reference many other examples of liberal “hate”) attempt to reinforce a taboos against behavior that appears to be at odds with fairly universal human values (referring to Haidt here: care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority, and sanctity):
Sexual assault, lying, corruption, discriminatory scapegoating, egotism
Enforcing taboos (again, what you oddly call “hate”) can of course be socially repugnant…that is, genuinely hateful. But, as a professed Conservative, you can at least understand that the opposite of propagating social norms regarding “immoral” behavior isn’t some libertine utopia but rather a deeply oppressive hedonic individualism.
Can you see that a society that does not “taboo” a Trump is fit to become a society of Trumps?
My intuition is that what makes Conservative queezy about taboos isn’t the taboos themselves. That’s obviously a ridiculous notion. Rather, it is that the taboos arise from the cosmopolitan “mob” rather than a traditional authority: church, aristocracy…
Thus, your criticism of liberals’ “hate” may indeed rest upon the value you place upon Authority as a foundation of morality?
Marty,
Liberals are attempting a sort of artistic boycott of Trump’s inauguration. Such boycotts (& we can all reference many other examples of liberal “hate”) attempt to reinforce a taboos against behavior that appears to be at odds with fairly universal human values (referring to Haidt here: care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority, and sanctity):
Sexual assault, lying, corruption, discriminatory scapegoating, egotism
Enforcing taboos (again, what you oddly call “hate”) can of course be socially repugnant…that is, genuinely hateful. But, as a professed Conservative, you can at least understand that the opposite of propagating social norms regarding “immoral” behavior isn’t some libertine utopia but rather a deeply oppressive hedonic individualism.
Can you see that a society that does not “taboo” a Trump is fit to become a society of Trumps?
My intuition is that what makes Conservative queezy about taboos isn’t the taboos themselves. That’s obviously a ridiculous notion. Rather, it is that the taboos arise from the cosmopolitan “mob” rather than a traditional authority: church, aristocracy…
Thus, your criticism of liberals’ “hate” may indeed rest upon the value you place upon Authority as a foundation of morality?
Marty,
Liberals are attempting a sort of artistic boycott of Trump’s inauguration. Such boycotts (& we can all reference many other examples of liberal “hate”) attempt to reinforce a taboos against behavior that appears to be at odds with fairly universal human values (referring to Haidt here: care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority, and sanctity):
Sexual assault, lying, corruption, discriminatory scapegoating, egotism
Enforcing taboos (again, what you oddly call “hate”) can of course be socially repugnant…that is, genuinely hateful. But, as a professed Conservative, you can at least understand that the opposite of propagating social norms regarding “immoral” behavior isn’t some libertine utopia but rather a deeply oppressive hedonic individualism.
Can you see that a society that does not “taboo” a Trump is fit to become a society of Trumps?
My intuition is that what makes Conservative queezy about taboos isn’t the taboos themselves. That’s obviously a ridiculous notion. Rather, it is that the taboos arise from the cosmopolitan “mob” rather than a traditional authority: church, aristocracy…
Thus, your criticism of liberals’ “hate” may indeed rest upon the value you place upon Authority as a foundation of morality?
This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
Wow. The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear. Just wow.
This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
Wow. The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear. Just wow.
This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
Wow. The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear. Just wow.
Lynching, for example, pales in comparison to the harshness of not playing music in honor of someone.
Lynching, for example, pales in comparison to the harshness of not playing music in honor of someone.
Lynching, for example, pales in comparison to the harshness of not playing music in honor of someone.
Btw, were proper fees paid for the music used in ‘enhanced interrogation’?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html
Btw, were proper fees paid for the music used in ‘enhanced interrogation’?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html
Btw, were proper fees paid for the music used in ‘enhanced interrogation’?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html
Does trump even like Elton John’s music?
As with his sense of humor …. not a funny bone in that man’s body … he doesn’t seem like a toe tapper to me either. For example, can you imagine trump line dancing?
I don’t know, maybe he can hoof like Gleason.
Gangway, ladies, I’m coming through! Is this the Undressing Room!
And when he dances with Paul Ryan, who do you think will lead?
Maybe he likes to watch other people dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFW3kEbhZd4
It could be with the louts that showed up at trump rallies and were sucker punching and throwing cabbage the fellow guests and the media that the bands and their agents got tired early in their careers of playing in road house venues where they had to duck inside a cage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR6MN2jKYs
I believe Yo Yo Ma answered his invite to play the cello during dinner by sending a courier … you don’t use social media; you never know who’s borscht-stained fingers might be diddling a Rockette … with this note:
Yo Ma Ma.
Quite frankly, I’m surprised the whole show isn’t karaoke, with the trump sons getting up and lip syncing along with Milli Vanilli lip syncing “It’s a Man Man Man’s World”.
“Man thinks about our little bitty baby girls and our baby boys
Man made them happy, ’cause man made them toys”
Covered, of course. By Lee Greenwood.
Does trump even like Elton John’s music?
As with his sense of humor …. not a funny bone in that man’s body … he doesn’t seem like a toe tapper to me either. For example, can you imagine trump line dancing?
I don’t know, maybe he can hoof like Gleason.
Gangway, ladies, I’m coming through! Is this the Undressing Room!
And when he dances with Paul Ryan, who do you think will lead?
Maybe he likes to watch other people dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFW3kEbhZd4
It could be with the louts that showed up at trump rallies and were sucker punching and throwing cabbage the fellow guests and the media that the bands and their agents got tired early in their careers of playing in road house venues where they had to duck inside a cage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR6MN2jKYs
I believe Yo Yo Ma answered his invite to play the cello during dinner by sending a courier … you don’t use social media; you never know who’s borscht-stained fingers might be diddling a Rockette … with this note:
Yo Ma Ma.
Quite frankly, I’m surprised the whole show isn’t karaoke, with the trump sons getting up and lip syncing along with Milli Vanilli lip syncing “It’s a Man Man Man’s World”.
“Man thinks about our little bitty baby girls and our baby boys
Man made them happy, ’cause man made them toys”
Covered, of course. By Lee Greenwood.
Does trump even like Elton John’s music?
As with his sense of humor …. not a funny bone in that man’s body … he doesn’t seem like a toe tapper to me either. For example, can you imagine trump line dancing?
I don’t know, maybe he can hoof like Gleason.
Gangway, ladies, I’m coming through! Is this the Undressing Room!
And when he dances with Paul Ryan, who do you think will lead?
Maybe he likes to watch other people dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFW3kEbhZd4
It could be with the louts that showed up at trump rallies and were sucker punching and throwing cabbage the fellow guests and the media that the bands and their agents got tired early in their careers of playing in road house venues where they had to duck inside a cage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR6MN2jKYs
I believe Yo Yo Ma answered his invite to play the cello during dinner by sending a courier … you don’t use social media; you never know who’s borscht-stained fingers might be diddling a Rockette … with this note:
Yo Ma Ma.
Quite frankly, I’m surprised the whole show isn’t karaoke, with the trump sons getting up and lip syncing along with Milli Vanilli lip syncing “It’s a Man Man Man’s World”.
“Man thinks about our little bitty baby girls and our baby boys
Man made them happy, ’cause man made them toys”
Covered, of course. By Lee Greenwood.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
yes,we have the power to destroy careers and bring entire industries to their knees.
fear us.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
yes,we have the power to destroy careers and bring entire industries to their knees.
fear us.
Hate is hate. This is the epitome of the liberal hate machine.
yes,we have the power to destroy careers and bring entire industries to their knees.
fear us.
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
what happned to Nugent and Kid Rock? I thought those guys were on board.
and no, I don’t think either of those guys declined because of their fear of a horrible liberal backlash.
what happned to Nugent and Kid Rock? I thought those guys were on board.
and no, I don’t think either of those guys declined because of their fear of a horrible liberal backlash.
what happned to Nugent and Kid Rock? I thought those guys were on board.
and no, I don’t think either of those guys declined because of their fear of a horrible liberal backlash.
Meet Richard Spencer’s wife:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/20/meet-the-moscow-mouthpiece-married-to-a-racist-alt-right-boss.html
Fascinating, that.
Meet Richard Spencer’s wife:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/20/meet-the-moscow-mouthpiece-married-to-a-racist-alt-right-boss.html
Fascinating, that.
Meet Richard Spencer’s wife:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/20/meet-the-moscow-mouthpiece-married-to-a-racist-alt-right-boss.html
Fascinating, that.
fucking republican coward:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-coffman-flees-constituents-community-event
He was on the “fence” too, until trump told him there will be no sitting on either the fence or the wall after January 20.
fucking republican coward:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-coffman-flees-constituents-community-event
He was on the “fence” too, until trump told him there will be no sitting on either the fence or the wall after January 20.
fucking republican coward:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-coffman-flees-constituents-community-event
He was on the “fence” too, until trump told him there will be no sitting on either the fence or the wall after January 20.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/evidence-bizarre-trump-russia-ties-continues-ooze-out
this is nice:
“You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia,” one of the intelligence officers said….The officer said part of Israel’s interest in the dossier — and in other intelligence on Trump’s ties to Russia — stems from concern that secrets Israel shares with the Unites States might be fed to Russia.
Earlier this week, Israel’s Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported that Israeli intelligence officials were questioning whether to continue sharing intelligence with the incoming Trump administration. The report said that during a recent meeting with US intelligence officials, Israel was told that the Russians had “leverages of pressure” to use against Trump. BuzzFeed News could not independently confirm that a meeting had taken place.
Other reports suggest that British intelligence is thinking along the same lines as Israel. And the Daily Beast reports that a group dedicated to hacking the NSA and releasing its prize malware has suddenly gone out of business a few days before Trump’s inauguration”
Regarding impeachment, had the assassination of Hitler succeeded, there were plenty of aggrieved, pious chicken farmers like Pence to take up the slack. The unassuming grocery clerks can murder with just as much efficacy as the charismatic types with the big hair. Less sadistic gusto, true, but the bookkeeping is better.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/evidence-bizarre-trump-russia-ties-continues-ooze-out
this is nice:
“You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia,” one of the intelligence officers said….The officer said part of Israel’s interest in the dossier — and in other intelligence on Trump’s ties to Russia — stems from concern that secrets Israel shares with the Unites States might be fed to Russia.
Earlier this week, Israel’s Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported that Israeli intelligence officials were questioning whether to continue sharing intelligence with the incoming Trump administration. The report said that during a recent meeting with US intelligence officials, Israel was told that the Russians had “leverages of pressure” to use against Trump. BuzzFeed News could not independently confirm that a meeting had taken place.
Other reports suggest that British intelligence is thinking along the same lines as Israel. And the Daily Beast reports that a group dedicated to hacking the NSA and releasing its prize malware has suddenly gone out of business a few days before Trump’s inauguration”
Regarding impeachment, had the assassination of Hitler succeeded, there were plenty of aggrieved, pious chicken farmers like Pence to take up the slack. The unassuming grocery clerks can murder with just as much efficacy as the charismatic types with the big hair. Less sadistic gusto, true, but the bookkeeping is better.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/evidence-bizarre-trump-russia-ties-continues-ooze-out
this is nice:
“You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia,” one of the intelligence officers said….The officer said part of Israel’s interest in the dossier — and in other intelligence on Trump’s ties to Russia — stems from concern that secrets Israel shares with the Unites States might be fed to Russia.
Earlier this week, Israel’s Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported that Israeli intelligence officials were questioning whether to continue sharing intelligence with the incoming Trump administration. The report said that during a recent meeting with US intelligence officials, Israel was told that the Russians had “leverages of pressure” to use against Trump. BuzzFeed News could not independently confirm that a meeting had taken place.
Other reports suggest that British intelligence is thinking along the same lines as Israel. And the Daily Beast reports that a group dedicated to hacking the NSA and releasing its prize malware has suddenly gone out of business a few days before Trump’s inauguration”
Regarding impeachment, had the assassination of Hitler succeeded, there were plenty of aggrieved, pious chicken farmers like Pence to take up the slack. The unassuming grocery clerks can murder with just as much efficacy as the charismatic types with the big hair. Less sadistic gusto, true, but the bookkeeping is better.
Do they change the mattresses in the master suite at the White House between Presidents?
Certainly, trump will not lower himself to rest his hair-netted head on the same bed as the swarthy couple who used the Presidential suite in Moscow.
Or does he just hang himself by the ankles from the ceiling for dream time?
“Get that mattress out of here,” trump will demand. “wait, Melania, no, not you, someone get me Coulter or Monica Crowley in here to squat on this pickaninny nest before we burn it and let the waters of liberty flow. Is Carson, that pathological child molester, free? Make him drink six beers beforehand.
Russell’s judgement that the Russian golden shower tapes are the true thing for the reason that trump had the hookers piss on the mattress on which Barack and his bride once slept is very astute. The entire act is also an apt metaphor for the manner in which this couple was treated from the time the republican met with McConnell and Ryan and decided to stymie EVERY bit of governance, including that Supreme Court Justice they owe me.
I suspect the urinals in the White House will be outfitted with “Fuck Obama” urinal cakes for the next four years, going on eight.
Do they change the mattresses in the master suite at the White House between Presidents?
Certainly, trump will not lower himself to rest his hair-netted head on the same bed as the swarthy couple who used the Presidential suite in Moscow.
Or does he just hang himself by the ankles from the ceiling for dream time?
“Get that mattress out of here,” trump will demand. “wait, Melania, no, not you, someone get me Coulter or Monica Crowley in here to squat on this pickaninny nest before we burn it and let the waters of liberty flow. Is Carson, that pathological child molester, free? Make him drink six beers beforehand.
Russell’s judgement that the Russian golden shower tapes are the true thing for the reason that trump had the hookers piss on the mattress on which Barack and his bride once slept is very astute. The entire act is also an apt metaphor for the manner in which this couple was treated from the time the republican met with McConnell and Ryan and decided to stymie EVERY bit of governance, including that Supreme Court Justice they owe me.
I suspect the urinals in the White House will be outfitted with “Fuck Obama” urinal cakes for the next four years, going on eight.
Do they change the mattresses in the master suite at the White House between Presidents?
Certainly, trump will not lower himself to rest his hair-netted head on the same bed as the swarthy couple who used the Presidential suite in Moscow.
Or does he just hang himself by the ankles from the ceiling for dream time?
“Get that mattress out of here,” trump will demand. “wait, Melania, no, not you, someone get me Coulter or Monica Crowley in here to squat on this pickaninny nest before we burn it and let the waters of liberty flow. Is Carson, that pathological child molester, free? Make him drink six beers beforehand.
Russell’s judgement that the Russian golden shower tapes are the true thing for the reason that trump had the hookers piss on the mattress on which Barack and his bride once slept is very astute. The entire act is also an apt metaphor for the manner in which this couple was treated from the time the republican met with McConnell and Ryan and decided to stymie EVERY bit of governance, including that Supreme Court Justice they owe me.
I suspect the urinals in the White House will be outfitted with “Fuck Obama” urinal cakes for the next four years, going on eight.
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
There is quite a likelihood that they WILL play Dschingis Khan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwGKo2pOmc
Here is the original (German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEUrp2V4ss
And the Donald himself may prefer this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcycI2wzwzs
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
There is quite a likelihood that they WILL play Dschingis Khan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwGKo2pOmc
Here is the original (German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEUrp2V4ss
And the Donald himself may prefer this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcycI2wzwzs
I understand that when trump attends his grandson’s bar mitzvah, his daughter is afraid he and Richard Spencer are going to drink too much and demand the band play Wagner.
There is quite a likelihood that they WILL play Dschingis Khan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwGKo2pOmc
Here is the original (German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEUrp2V4ss
And the Donald himself may prefer this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcycI2wzwzs
More on the moles that now run your country:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/01/15/self-inflicted-wounds-blind-deaf-and-maybe-dumb/
More on the moles that now run your country:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/01/15/self-inflicted-wounds-blind-deaf-and-maybe-dumb/
More on the moles that now run your country:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/01/15/self-inflicted-wounds-blind-deaf-and-maybe-dumb/
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
He thinks that, because if he didn’t, he’d have to answer to the free market. And the free market can’t fail, it can only be failed.
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
He thinks that, because if he didn’t, he’d have to answer to the free market. And the free market can’t fail, it can only be failed.
I think it’s funny that Marty thinks people don’t want to perform solely out of fear of liberal-elite backlash, as opposed to those performers actually disliking Trump immensely themselves.
He thinks that, because if he didn’t, he’d have to answer to the free market. And the free market can’t fail, it can only be failed.
Sweety pie.
Sweety pie.
Sweety pie.
lj:
Thanks for writing this, I have notes for a post of my own that I couldn’t get up what it takes to actually write about.
The surprising thing, to me, is that Trump’s support seems so weak even among country music stars. The only article I can find about it said (pre-election) that country music is trying hard to be apolitical.
Note that Dixie Chicks were forced off country radio for being too *liberal*.
Is there any evidence that country stars couldn’t be as Republican as they wanted to be? I can’t find any — and most of their public are likely to be Trump supporters, so where’s the downside?
If I had to guess, I think the issue is that very, VERY few performers (music or otherwise) don’t have LGBT+ friends and co-workers. I suspect *that* is the issue that has united the entertainment industry so solidly against Trump — more solidly than any other industry, even college professors.
The other side to Trump’s lack of country stars at the Inauguration is that he, personally, clearly doesn’t care for country music and doesn’t think country stars are “A-list”. Otherwise his people wouldn’t have waited so long to ask Toby Keith, who *is* a country A-lister and an obvious choice.
lj:
Thanks for writing this, I have notes for a post of my own that I couldn’t get up what it takes to actually write about.
The surprising thing, to me, is that Trump’s support seems so weak even among country music stars. The only article I can find about it said (pre-election) that country music is trying hard to be apolitical.
Note that Dixie Chicks were forced off country radio for being too *liberal*.
Is there any evidence that country stars couldn’t be as Republican as they wanted to be? I can’t find any — and most of their public are likely to be Trump supporters, so where’s the downside?
If I had to guess, I think the issue is that very, VERY few performers (music or otherwise) don’t have LGBT+ friends and co-workers. I suspect *that* is the issue that has united the entertainment industry so solidly against Trump — more solidly than any other industry, even college professors.
The other side to Trump’s lack of country stars at the Inauguration is that he, personally, clearly doesn’t care for country music and doesn’t think country stars are “A-list”. Otherwise his people wouldn’t have waited so long to ask Toby Keith, who *is* a country A-lister and an obvious choice.
lj:
Thanks for writing this, I have notes for a post of my own that I couldn’t get up what it takes to actually write about.
The surprising thing, to me, is that Trump’s support seems so weak even among country music stars. The only article I can find about it said (pre-election) that country music is trying hard to be apolitical.
Note that Dixie Chicks were forced off country radio for being too *liberal*.
Is there any evidence that country stars couldn’t be as Republican as they wanted to be? I can’t find any — and most of their public are likely to be Trump supporters, so where’s the downside?
If I had to guess, I think the issue is that very, VERY few performers (music or otherwise) don’t have LGBT+ friends and co-workers. I suspect *that* is the issue that has united the entertainment industry so solidly against Trump — more solidly than any other industry, even college professors.
The other side to Trump’s lack of country stars at the Inauguration is that he, personally, clearly doesn’t care for country music and doesn’t think country stars are “A-list”. Otherwise his people wouldn’t have waited so long to ask Toby Keith, who *is* a country A-lister and an obvious choice.
Speaking of Nina Kouprianova and her mission to promote the works of Alexander Dugin, someone on Balloon Juice posted a link to an article about Dylann Roof, and his website’s ties to Russia. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily mean direct influence, but it is creepy as hell.
Speaking of Nina Kouprianova and her mission to promote the works of Alexander Dugin, someone on Balloon Juice posted a link to an article about Dylann Roof, and his website’s ties to Russia. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily mean direct influence, but it is creepy as hell.
Speaking of Nina Kouprianova and her mission to promote the works of Alexander Dugin, someone on Balloon Juice posted a link to an article about Dylann Roof, and his website’s ties to Russia. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily mean direct influence, but it is creepy as hell.
lj:
I’m disappointed in you for this remark:
Engage with Marty or don’t, but this is ad hominem.
lj:
I’m disappointed in you for this remark:
Engage with Marty or don’t, but this is ad hominem.
lj:
I’m disappointed in you for this remark:
Engage with Marty or don’t, but this is ad hominem.
Alex Mohajer argues for courts to enjoin Trump from taking office.
Alex Mohajer argues for courts to enjoin Trump from taking office.
Alex Mohajer argues for courts to enjoin Trump from taking office.
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear.
Or perhaps…
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to bake a cake that the other guy wants to eat.
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear.
Or perhaps…
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to bake a cake that the other guy wants to eat.
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to perform music that the other guy wants to hear.
Or perhaps…
The epitome of hate is . . . to refuse to bake a cake that the other guy wants to eat.
That comparison would be more apt if a given performer refused Trump entry to that performer’s public concert.
That comparison would be more apt if a given performer refused Trump entry to that performer’s public concert.
That comparison would be more apt if a given performer refused Trump entry to that performer’s public concert.
Trump *might* be able to get the “Liberty Kids” to perform.
If he paid them what he owed for their previous campaign performances.
So, “no”, then, I’d guess.
Trump *might* be able to get the “Liberty Kids” to perform.
If he paid them what he owed for their previous campaign performances.
So, “no”, then, I’d guess.
Trump *might* be able to get the “Liberty Kids” to perform.
If he paid them what he owed for their previous campaign performances.
So, “no”, then, I’d guess.
to address Marty’s point, George W Bush was able to get full bills of A-list performers for both his 2001 and 2005 inaugurals. and none of those people had their careers damaged by the “liberal hate machine”.
Nugent, Kid Rock, and the Beach Boys were all named as likely performers for Trump. All are, famously, conservative people (Mike Love in the case of the Beach Boys), none of them would likely pay any price in box office or record sales for performing at the inaugural, yet none are on the bill. For some reason.
I submit that the reason is Trump. Not because he’s conservative. Because he’s Trump. He’s a vain, litigious PITA with a hisory of not paying folks who work for him. And he’s surrounded by sycophantic ass-kissing lampreys, who are likely just not people anyone wants to deal with, even by the standards of the music business. Which is saying a lot.
So artists who just don’t need the freaking headache are probably going to take a pass.
Ask the folks I just named why they don’t want the gig. Or half the acts in country. Or Christian pop, which is a big market chock full of conservatives.
I don’t think the juggalos even want anything to do with him.
Rich entitled assholes are shitty bosses. Even just for one gig. So folks who just don’t need the aggravation will quite often take a pass. Or, they’ll charge a hefty PITA premium, which in this case was apparently on offer, but just wasn’t enough to make it worthwhile.
Don’t blame people like me for Trump’s assholery.
Thanks.
to address Marty’s point, George W Bush was able to get full bills of A-list performers for both his 2001 and 2005 inaugurals. and none of those people had their careers damaged by the “liberal hate machine”.
Nugent, Kid Rock, and the Beach Boys were all named as likely performers for Trump. All are, famously, conservative people (Mike Love in the case of the Beach Boys), none of them would likely pay any price in box office or record sales for performing at the inaugural, yet none are on the bill. For some reason.
I submit that the reason is Trump. Not because he’s conservative. Because he’s Trump. He’s a vain, litigious PITA with a hisory of not paying folks who work for him. And he’s surrounded by sycophantic ass-kissing lampreys, who are likely just not people anyone wants to deal with, even by the standards of the music business. Which is saying a lot.
So artists who just don’t need the freaking headache are probably going to take a pass.
Ask the folks I just named why they don’t want the gig. Or half the acts in country. Or Christian pop, which is a big market chock full of conservatives.
I don’t think the juggalos even want anything to do with him.
Rich entitled assholes are shitty bosses. Even just for one gig. So folks who just don’t need the aggravation will quite often take a pass. Or, they’ll charge a hefty PITA premium, which in this case was apparently on offer, but just wasn’t enough to make it worthwhile.
Don’t blame people like me for Trump’s assholery.
Thanks.
to address Marty’s point, George W Bush was able to get full bills of A-list performers for both his 2001 and 2005 inaugurals. and none of those people had their careers damaged by the “liberal hate machine”.
Nugent, Kid Rock, and the Beach Boys were all named as likely performers for Trump. All are, famously, conservative people (Mike Love in the case of the Beach Boys), none of them would likely pay any price in box office or record sales for performing at the inaugural, yet none are on the bill. For some reason.
I submit that the reason is Trump. Not because he’s conservative. Because he’s Trump. He’s a vain, litigious PITA with a hisory of not paying folks who work for him. And he’s surrounded by sycophantic ass-kissing lampreys, who are likely just not people anyone wants to deal with, even by the standards of the music business. Which is saying a lot.
So artists who just don’t need the freaking headache are probably going to take a pass.
Ask the folks I just named why they don’t want the gig. Or half the acts in country. Or Christian pop, which is a big market chock full of conservatives.
I don’t think the juggalos even want anything to do with him.
Rich entitled assholes are shitty bosses. Even just for one gig. So folks who just don’t need the aggravation will quite often take a pass. Or, they’ll charge a hefty PITA premium, which in this case was apparently on offer, but just wasn’t enough to make it worthwhile.
Don’t blame people like me for Trump’s assholery.
Thanks.
people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events
Queen Be herself performed at W’s first inaugural as part of Destiny’s Child.
Somehow her career survived the machinations of the liberal hate machine.
people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events
Queen Be herself performed at W’s first inaugural as part of Destiny’s Child.
Somehow her career survived the machinations of the liberal hate machine.
people like ricky martin and jessica simpson performed at the george w inaugurals and there wasn’t any kind of massive resistance to performing for those events
Queen Be herself performed at W’s first inaugural as part of Destiny’s Child.
Somehow her career survived the machinations of the liberal hate machine.
In a way, it seems like a reprise of the theme of Trump’s whole life. He makes a huge effort to succeed, as he understands success. Expecting that his success will bring him acceptance and approval from those he sees as elites. Whether wealthy Manhattanites in past years or political and media elites today.
But it keeps not happening. The wealthy persist in seeing him as nouveau riche. The media elites see him as an uncultured boor; and one who will stiff them in an instant, not to save money but just because he can. And the political elites regard him as a loose cannon who not only doesn’t understand how the game is played but is so far out that he’s likely to trash the whole system. (And those politicians who are motivated by principles note that he has none beyond self-aggrandizement.)
So, once again, he finds himself having, he feels, checked all the boxes for acceptance and approval. And gotten . . . nada. No wonder the man keeps loudly proclaiming how great he is. On some level he knows that nobody he regards as important will do so.
In a way, it seems like a reprise of the theme of Trump’s whole life. He makes a huge effort to succeed, as he understands success. Expecting that his success will bring him acceptance and approval from those he sees as elites. Whether wealthy Manhattanites in past years or political and media elites today.
But it keeps not happening. The wealthy persist in seeing him as nouveau riche. The media elites see him as an uncultured boor; and one who will stiff them in an instant, not to save money but just because he can. And the political elites regard him as a loose cannon who not only doesn’t understand how the game is played but is so far out that he’s likely to trash the whole system. (And those politicians who are motivated by principles note that he has none beyond self-aggrandizement.)
So, once again, he finds himself having, he feels, checked all the boxes for acceptance and approval. And gotten . . . nada. No wonder the man keeps loudly proclaiming how great he is. On some level he knows that nobody he regards as important will do so.
In a way, it seems like a reprise of the theme of Trump’s whole life. He makes a huge effort to succeed, as he understands success. Expecting that his success will bring him acceptance and approval from those he sees as elites. Whether wealthy Manhattanites in past years or political and media elites today.
But it keeps not happening. The wealthy persist in seeing him as nouveau riche. The media elites see him as an uncultured boor; and one who will stiff them in an instant, not to save money but just because he can. And the political elites regard him as a loose cannon who not only doesn’t understand how the game is played but is so far out that he’s likely to trash the whole system. (And those politicians who are motivated by principles note that he has none beyond self-aggrandizement.)
So, once again, he finds himself having, he feels, checked all the boxes for acceptance and approval. And gotten . . . nada. No wonder the man keeps loudly proclaiming how great he is. On some level he knows that nobody he regards as important will do so.
Doc, I disagree, Marty is just coming in here and shitting in the thread. I can see no evidence that he clicked on the link to read it and even if he did, the reply was not some sort of refutation of what Gopnik wrote. He could have said that it actually is snobbish hostility and provided some support for that, he could have claimed that the weight Gopnik assigns to music is unwarranted, he could have listed all the wonderful artists that were going to perform. He didn’t, he posited some ‘liberal hate machine’ that destroys the careers of those who don’t hew to the liberal line. I left the door open for someone to take issue with what Gopnik said, but there was no taking issue, it was simply, to turn a phrase “disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake”.
Marty is on record as saying he is ‘on the fence’, but the utter incomprehension that he has about people really detesting everything that Trump stands for and refusing to grant one iota of respect to the man suggests that Marty’s lying.That’s not a charge I just toss out, but I’m not sure how one could assume otherwise. Marty doesn’t have to prove that he’s on the fence, but I don’t have to pretend that I believe it.
Doc, I disagree, Marty is just coming in here and shitting in the thread. I can see no evidence that he clicked on the link to read it and even if he did, the reply was not some sort of refutation of what Gopnik wrote. He could have said that it actually is snobbish hostility and provided some support for that, he could have claimed that the weight Gopnik assigns to music is unwarranted, he could have listed all the wonderful artists that were going to perform. He didn’t, he posited some ‘liberal hate machine’ that destroys the careers of those who don’t hew to the liberal line. I left the door open for someone to take issue with what Gopnik said, but there was no taking issue, it was simply, to turn a phrase “disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake”.
Marty is on record as saying he is ‘on the fence’, but the utter incomprehension that he has about people really detesting everything that Trump stands for and refusing to grant one iota of respect to the man suggests that Marty’s lying.That’s not a charge I just toss out, but I’m not sure how one could assume otherwise. Marty doesn’t have to prove that he’s on the fence, but I don’t have to pretend that I believe it.
Doc, I disagree, Marty is just coming in here and shitting in the thread. I can see no evidence that he clicked on the link to read it and even if he did, the reply was not some sort of refutation of what Gopnik wrote. He could have said that it actually is snobbish hostility and provided some support for that, he could have claimed that the weight Gopnik assigns to music is unwarranted, he could have listed all the wonderful artists that were going to perform. He didn’t, he posited some ‘liberal hate machine’ that destroys the careers of those who don’t hew to the liberal line. I left the door open for someone to take issue with what Gopnik said, but there was no taking issue, it was simply, to turn a phrase “disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake”.
Marty is on record as saying he is ‘on the fence’, but the utter incomprehension that he has about people really detesting everything that Trump stands for and refusing to grant one iota of respect to the man suggests that Marty’s lying.That’s not a charge I just toss out, but I’m not sure how one could assume otherwise. Marty doesn’t have to prove that he’s on the fence, but I don’t have to pretend that I believe it.
Contrast the situation with that of the famous hater Stevie Wonder.
Contrast the situation with that of the famous hater Stevie Wonder.
Contrast the situation with that of the famous hater Stevie Wonder.
lj, Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group. Those are two entirely different ideas, and believing one in no way means one must believe the other. Marty has been persistent in voicing the latter to varying degrees over the years, but that doesn’t mean his claims to be on the fence are false, and it’s hard to understand why that would be a concept that’s hard to grasp. Trump and Trumpism are relative newcomers to the political discourse, but hating on liberals is old hat and habit.
lj, Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group. Those are two entirely different ideas, and believing one in no way means one must believe the other. Marty has been persistent in voicing the latter to varying degrees over the years, but that doesn’t mean his claims to be on the fence are false, and it’s hard to understand why that would be a concept that’s hard to grasp. Trump and Trumpism are relative newcomers to the political discourse, but hating on liberals is old hat and habit.
lj, Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group. Those are two entirely different ideas, and believing one in no way means one must believe the other. Marty has been persistent in voicing the latter to varying degrees over the years, but that doesn’t mean his claims to be on the fence are false, and it’s hard to understand why that would be a concept that’s hard to grasp. Trump and Trumpism are relative newcomers to the political discourse, but hating on liberals is old hat and habit.
FWIW, Marty has on a number of occasions attributed negative reactions to Trump to left-wing “hate”. Often obnoxiously so.
A lot of people find the idea of a Trump presidency disturbing. A lot of people are, frankly, afraid of it, and are afraid of what the consequences will be for the country.
A lot of those people are not liberal, left, progressive, whatever. Many of them are conservative, in some cases markedly so.
Aversion to Trump does not require participation in a “liberal hate machine”. For a hell of a lot of people, Trump himself is more than sufficient reason.
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
FWIW, Marty has on a number of occasions attributed negative reactions to Trump to left-wing “hate”. Often obnoxiously so.
A lot of people find the idea of a Trump presidency disturbing. A lot of people are, frankly, afraid of it, and are afraid of what the consequences will be for the country.
A lot of those people are not liberal, left, progressive, whatever. Many of them are conservative, in some cases markedly so.
Aversion to Trump does not require participation in a “liberal hate machine”. For a hell of a lot of people, Trump himself is more than sufficient reason.
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
FWIW, Marty has on a number of occasions attributed negative reactions to Trump to left-wing “hate”. Often obnoxiously so.
A lot of people find the idea of a Trump presidency disturbing. A lot of people are, frankly, afraid of it, and are afraid of what the consequences will be for the country.
A lot of those people are not liberal, left, progressive, whatever. Many of them are conservative, in some cases markedly so.
Aversion to Trump does not require participation in a “liberal hate machine”. For a hell of a lot of people, Trump himself is more than sufficient reason.
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
“Often obnoxiously so.”
I have to say this is rich. Any commenter that doesn’t decry Trump as the next Mussolini feels that hate. Right here. Obnoxious are people who would have Obama declare a state of emergency and prevent Trump from being inaugurated under the guise of “saving our institutions”. A coup to save the country, that is banana republic crap.
I don’t like Trump. I don’t like bullies on either side. It isn’t hard to see how the left is bullying everyone they can into hysteria over this. Which Trump will certainly respond to like any 12 year old. I have not engaged much, mostly because the echo chamber here is not willing to engage.
Trump states unequivocally yesterday that he isn’t repealing without replacing, his goal is to cover everyone, he will make the drug companies et al negotiate costs and he isn’t going to touch Medicare or Medicaid. The last person whose goals those were was Barack Obama.
Actually every single senior Republican leader has assured everyone there would be no repeal without a replace.
So, I’m on the fence, if they deliver on 80% of all that I’m good. Next issue. Same thing on the wall, lets build a wall, we’ll charge Mexico for it later, we’ll use money already in the budget. Ok, done, next issue.
Show me an actual policy that I hate I’ll just agree. But defending Israel in the UN? We did that for over 60 years until last month, I cant get too worked up over his preference for the policy that was in place until last month. next.
Putin? The last President who tried to make friends with him was…oh yeah Obama. It seems like every President is going to reset that relationship. I am sure he will be disappointed also.
Wet foot Dry foot? That’s just Obama declaring the Cuban community in the US isn’t important to the Democrats coalition. Just like he decided he could punt Israel.
No, I don’t like Obama, but I never questioned whether his Presidency was legitimate, even as he crams every possible rule, directive, order, regulation and dictate he can into his last few months in hopes that Trumps team will miss some of them.
But mostly, are you really reading any of the stuff you write here? Our institutions say that the inauguration is as much an honoring of the very most basic things our country is built on. Peaceful transition of power, government by the people. The Office of the Presidency gets some level of respect. I would prefer it if he would show a little of that, and vice versa.
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Do I care that he might have Ivanka in the White House, no, I would love that. She’s been running everything for him for years, at least someone competent will be there.
Is there enough separation from his businesses? That could prove problematic, or not. We haven’t really had a President with that many diverse businesses to deal with, so it’s hard to decide if he has done enough. That’s a fence thing.
Do I think he should be talking about the intelligence folks the way he has? Absolutely not, I really hope that once he is actually inaugurated and it seems less likely that the coup advocates didn’t win he can quit overreacting to them. But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Did Putin decide the election? There are 50 million plus people that will tell you they didn’t vote for Trump because of Putin. They voted in the right amounts in the right places and despite the whole fake news mantra, that really happened both ways.
The real impact Putin had was making the emails available, and no one has really challenged their accuracy. So it would have been ok to release them if WaPo had gotten them. So punish Putin for cyber spying, but don’t make it seem like they won the election for Trump.
I am all for holding Trump accountable for what he does as the President. For me that is what we should be focused on.
Lastly, I read the article, I didn’t think Dylan would be playing at Trumps inauguration, or the Dixie Chicks, but more than a few people have been bullied into declining, in fact, pulling out after accepting. The things they have been subjected to is pretty hateful.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
“Often obnoxiously so.”
I have to say this is rich. Any commenter that doesn’t decry Trump as the next Mussolini feels that hate. Right here. Obnoxious are people who would have Obama declare a state of emergency and prevent Trump from being inaugurated under the guise of “saving our institutions”. A coup to save the country, that is banana republic crap.
I don’t like Trump. I don’t like bullies on either side. It isn’t hard to see how the left is bullying everyone they can into hysteria over this. Which Trump will certainly respond to like any 12 year old. I have not engaged much, mostly because the echo chamber here is not willing to engage.
Trump states unequivocally yesterday that he isn’t repealing without replacing, his goal is to cover everyone, he will make the drug companies et al negotiate costs and he isn’t going to touch Medicare or Medicaid. The last person whose goals those were was Barack Obama.
Actually every single senior Republican leader has assured everyone there would be no repeal without a replace.
So, I’m on the fence, if they deliver on 80% of all that I’m good. Next issue. Same thing on the wall, lets build a wall, we’ll charge Mexico for it later, we’ll use money already in the budget. Ok, done, next issue.
Show me an actual policy that I hate I’ll just agree. But defending Israel in the UN? We did that for over 60 years until last month, I cant get too worked up over his preference for the policy that was in place until last month. next.
Putin? The last President who tried to make friends with him was…oh yeah Obama. It seems like every President is going to reset that relationship. I am sure he will be disappointed also.
Wet foot Dry foot? That’s just Obama declaring the Cuban community in the US isn’t important to the Democrats coalition. Just like he decided he could punt Israel.
No, I don’t like Obama, but I never questioned whether his Presidency was legitimate, even as he crams every possible rule, directive, order, regulation and dictate he can into his last few months in hopes that Trumps team will miss some of them.
But mostly, are you really reading any of the stuff you write here? Our institutions say that the inauguration is as much an honoring of the very most basic things our country is built on. Peaceful transition of power, government by the people. The Office of the Presidency gets some level of respect. I would prefer it if he would show a little of that, and vice versa.
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Do I care that he might have Ivanka in the White House, no, I would love that. She’s been running everything for him for years, at least someone competent will be there.
Is there enough separation from his businesses? That could prove problematic, or not. We haven’t really had a President with that many diverse businesses to deal with, so it’s hard to decide if he has done enough. That’s a fence thing.
Do I think he should be talking about the intelligence folks the way he has? Absolutely not, I really hope that once he is actually inaugurated and it seems less likely that the coup advocates didn’t win he can quit overreacting to them. But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Did Putin decide the election? There are 50 million plus people that will tell you they didn’t vote for Trump because of Putin. They voted in the right amounts in the right places and despite the whole fake news mantra, that really happened both ways.
The real impact Putin had was making the emails available, and no one has really challenged their accuracy. So it would have been ok to release them if WaPo had gotten them. So punish Putin for cyber spying, but don’t make it seem like they won the election for Trump.
I am all for holding Trump accountable for what he does as the President. For me that is what we should be focused on.
Lastly, I read the article, I didn’t think Dylan would be playing at Trumps inauguration, or the Dixie Chicks, but more than a few people have been bullied into declining, in fact, pulling out after accepting. The things they have been subjected to is pretty hateful.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
“Often obnoxiously so.”
I have to say this is rich. Any commenter that doesn’t decry Trump as the next Mussolini feels that hate. Right here. Obnoxious are people who would have Obama declare a state of emergency and prevent Trump from being inaugurated under the guise of “saving our institutions”. A coup to save the country, that is banana republic crap.
I don’t like Trump. I don’t like bullies on either side. It isn’t hard to see how the left is bullying everyone they can into hysteria over this. Which Trump will certainly respond to like any 12 year old. I have not engaged much, mostly because the echo chamber here is not willing to engage.
Trump states unequivocally yesterday that he isn’t repealing without replacing, his goal is to cover everyone, he will make the drug companies et al negotiate costs and he isn’t going to touch Medicare or Medicaid. The last person whose goals those were was Barack Obama.
Actually every single senior Republican leader has assured everyone there would be no repeal without a replace.
So, I’m on the fence, if they deliver on 80% of all that I’m good. Next issue. Same thing on the wall, lets build a wall, we’ll charge Mexico for it later, we’ll use money already in the budget. Ok, done, next issue.
Show me an actual policy that I hate I’ll just agree. But defending Israel in the UN? We did that for over 60 years until last month, I cant get too worked up over his preference for the policy that was in place until last month. next.
Putin? The last President who tried to make friends with him was…oh yeah Obama. It seems like every President is going to reset that relationship. I am sure he will be disappointed also.
Wet foot Dry foot? That’s just Obama declaring the Cuban community in the US isn’t important to the Democrats coalition. Just like he decided he could punt Israel.
No, I don’t like Obama, but I never questioned whether his Presidency was legitimate, even as he crams every possible rule, directive, order, regulation and dictate he can into his last few months in hopes that Trumps team will miss some of them.
But mostly, are you really reading any of the stuff you write here? Our institutions say that the inauguration is as much an honoring of the very most basic things our country is built on. Peaceful transition of power, government by the people. The Office of the Presidency gets some level of respect. I would prefer it if he would show a little of that, and vice versa.
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Do I care that he might have Ivanka in the White House, no, I would love that. She’s been running everything for him for years, at least someone competent will be there.
Is there enough separation from his businesses? That could prove problematic, or not. We haven’t really had a President with that many diverse businesses to deal with, so it’s hard to decide if he has done enough. That’s a fence thing.
Do I think he should be talking about the intelligence folks the way he has? Absolutely not, I really hope that once he is actually inaugurated and it seems less likely that the coup advocates didn’t win he can quit overreacting to them. But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Did Putin decide the election? There are 50 million plus people that will tell you they didn’t vote for Trump because of Putin. They voted in the right amounts in the right places and despite the whole fake news mantra, that really happened both ways.
The real impact Putin had was making the emails available, and no one has really challenged their accuracy. So it would have been ok to release them if WaPo had gotten them. So punish Putin for cyber spying, but don’t make it seem like they won the election for Trump.
I am all for holding Trump accountable for what he does as the President. For me that is what we should be focused on.
Lastly, I read the article, I didn’t think Dylan would be playing at Trumps inauguration, or the Dixie Chicks, but more than a few people have been bullied into declining, in fact, pulling out after accepting. The things they have been subjected to is pretty hateful.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
But it’s okay to hate the haters, isn’t it? That’s what makes the label so useful. It’s not like you have to demonstrate the hate the haters engage in within the context of history or on the spectrum of human behaviors. You only need to make a big deal out of something you disagree with, using dramatic language to describe it.
So, for instance, telling homosexuals they’re unnatural and destined for an eternity in hell for their perversity is the same as turning someone down for a musical gig. Denying African Americans access to pubic accomodations is the same as expressing the opinion that someone is unfit for the highest office in the land (without regard for the basis provided for that opinion, even).
Hate is just hate. It’s all the same. Some people might drag a man behind a pick-up truck until he’s dead. Other people refuse to travel to DC to play music for someone. What’s the diff?
But it’s okay to hate the haters, isn’t it? That’s what makes the label so useful. It’s not like you have to demonstrate the hate the haters engage in within the context of history or on the spectrum of human behaviors. You only need to make a big deal out of something you disagree with, using dramatic language to describe it.
So, for instance, telling homosexuals they’re unnatural and destined for an eternity in hell for their perversity is the same as turning someone down for a musical gig. Denying African Americans access to pubic accomodations is the same as expressing the opinion that someone is unfit for the highest office in the land (without regard for the basis provided for that opinion, even).
Hate is just hate. It’s all the same. Some people might drag a man behind a pick-up truck until he’s dead. Other people refuse to travel to DC to play music for someone. What’s the diff?
But it’s okay to hate the haters, isn’t it? That’s what makes the label so useful. It’s not like you have to demonstrate the hate the haters engage in within the context of history or on the spectrum of human behaviors. You only need to make a big deal out of something you disagree with, using dramatic language to describe it.
So, for instance, telling homosexuals they’re unnatural and destined for an eternity in hell for their perversity is the same as turning someone down for a musical gig. Denying African Americans access to pubic accomodations is the same as expressing the opinion that someone is unfit for the highest office in the land (without regard for the basis provided for that opinion, even).
Hate is just hate. It’s all the same. Some people might drag a man behind a pick-up truck until he’s dead. Other people refuse to travel to DC to play music for someone. What’s the diff?
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
None of those people did any of the things you listed, Obama was against gay marriage at the time of both inaugurations, IIRC, but certainly the first…yet?
Hyperbolic is an appropriate description of the response.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
None of those people did any of the things you listed, Obama was against gay marriage at the time of both inaugurations, IIRC, but certainly the first…yet?
Hyperbolic is an appropriate description of the response.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
None of those people did any of the things you listed, Obama was against gay marriage at the time of both inaugurations, IIRC, but certainly the first…yet?
Hyperbolic is an appropriate description of the response.
I’m all for balance.
So, I can tell you that Mike Love is one of biggest unreconstructed Republican assholes and jagoffs in the music business … ask anyone … and if he had his way “Pet Sounds” and the song “Surf’s Up” would never have seen the light of day, an opinion that he shared with the Wilson Brothers’ physically and mentally abusive, and Trump-like father, the manipulative aggrandizer of his own sons’ talents, Murray Wilson.
True, he can carry the low harmony. And, true, to some extent he now grudgingly appreciates Brian’s musical choices and talents, despite Love’s insistence in the same breath that he put the “papa” in “papa-ooh-mao-mao”.
He’s the only person in the world who went thru the Maharishi’s Transcendental Meditation regimen to come out the other end shittier than when he went in, regardless of the fact that Ringo couldn’t stand the food in Rishikesh.
Where the balance comes in, is that regardless of Brian Wilson’s political leanings, the man is a a genius. He and his brother Carl can and could sing like angels. As can Al Jardine. Denny had his problems, but put headphones on and you can hear him nailing his harmony every time.
I don’t mind .. it doesn’t hurt my feelings .. Marty stating that Meryl Streep is an uppity limousine liberal who should keep her mouth shut, despite the fact that she told the truth about trump mocking the disabled reporter.
But we never hear any criticism from the patronizing non-existent safety zone of “the fence” around here that Scott Baio, one of the least talents to ever hitch a ride in a limo, is a rude little c*nt.
“I don’t like bullies on either side”, you claim. It’s hard to tell considering that you show us the bruises inflicted on you by Clinton’s term “deplorables”, but when time after time individuals, some of them Republicans, are sucker-punched, knocked around, and hauled out of a trump campaign venue at the orders from the punk on the dias, not a fucking peep out of you.
Aren’t their ANY echos around here you find worthy of yodeling to?
Marty, the hatred you’ve expressed for Clinton and Obama over the past two years has been near hysterical. Fine. Have at it. The only criticism I have is that you aren’t funny.
On the other hand, your dislike of trump and Sessions (an unreconstructed racist), for example, have been expressed in the most anodyne, politically correct terms.
That disparity, which seems pristinely objective to you, I guess, may be many things, but the “fence” it is not.
You’re not C-Span by a long shot, and if you were, you’d be hacked by Russia and would call it commercial break.
I’m all for balance.
So, I can tell you that Mike Love is one of biggest unreconstructed Republican assholes and jagoffs in the music business … ask anyone … and if he had his way “Pet Sounds” and the song “Surf’s Up” would never have seen the light of day, an opinion that he shared with the Wilson Brothers’ physically and mentally abusive, and Trump-like father, the manipulative aggrandizer of his own sons’ talents, Murray Wilson.
True, he can carry the low harmony. And, true, to some extent he now grudgingly appreciates Brian’s musical choices and talents, despite Love’s insistence in the same breath that he put the “papa” in “papa-ooh-mao-mao”.
He’s the only person in the world who went thru the Maharishi’s Transcendental Meditation regimen to come out the other end shittier than when he went in, regardless of the fact that Ringo couldn’t stand the food in Rishikesh.
Where the balance comes in, is that regardless of Brian Wilson’s political leanings, the man is a a genius. He and his brother Carl can and could sing like angels. As can Al Jardine. Denny had his problems, but put headphones on and you can hear him nailing his harmony every time.
I don’t mind .. it doesn’t hurt my feelings .. Marty stating that Meryl Streep is an uppity limousine liberal who should keep her mouth shut, despite the fact that she told the truth about trump mocking the disabled reporter.
But we never hear any criticism from the patronizing non-existent safety zone of “the fence” around here that Scott Baio, one of the least talents to ever hitch a ride in a limo, is a rude little c*nt.
“I don’t like bullies on either side”, you claim. It’s hard to tell considering that you show us the bruises inflicted on you by Clinton’s term “deplorables”, but when time after time individuals, some of them Republicans, are sucker-punched, knocked around, and hauled out of a trump campaign venue at the orders from the punk on the dias, not a fucking peep out of you.
Aren’t their ANY echos around here you find worthy of yodeling to?
Marty, the hatred you’ve expressed for Clinton and Obama over the past two years has been near hysterical. Fine. Have at it. The only criticism I have is that you aren’t funny.
On the other hand, your dislike of trump and Sessions (an unreconstructed racist), for example, have been expressed in the most anodyne, politically correct terms.
That disparity, which seems pristinely objective to you, I guess, may be many things, but the “fence” it is not.
You’re not C-Span by a long shot, and if you were, you’d be hacked by Russia and would call it commercial break.
I’m all for balance.
So, I can tell you that Mike Love is one of biggest unreconstructed Republican assholes and jagoffs in the music business … ask anyone … and if he had his way “Pet Sounds” and the song “Surf’s Up” would never have seen the light of day, an opinion that he shared with the Wilson Brothers’ physically and mentally abusive, and Trump-like father, the manipulative aggrandizer of his own sons’ talents, Murray Wilson.
True, he can carry the low harmony. And, true, to some extent he now grudgingly appreciates Brian’s musical choices and talents, despite Love’s insistence in the same breath that he put the “papa” in “papa-ooh-mao-mao”.
He’s the only person in the world who went thru the Maharishi’s Transcendental Meditation regimen to come out the other end shittier than when he went in, regardless of the fact that Ringo couldn’t stand the food in Rishikesh.
Where the balance comes in, is that regardless of Brian Wilson’s political leanings, the man is a a genius. He and his brother Carl can and could sing like angels. As can Al Jardine. Denny had his problems, but put headphones on and you can hear him nailing his harmony every time.
I don’t mind .. it doesn’t hurt my feelings .. Marty stating that Meryl Streep is an uppity limousine liberal who should keep her mouth shut, despite the fact that she told the truth about trump mocking the disabled reporter.
But we never hear any criticism from the patronizing non-existent safety zone of “the fence” around here that Scott Baio, one of the least talents to ever hitch a ride in a limo, is a rude little c*nt.
“I don’t like bullies on either side”, you claim. It’s hard to tell considering that you show us the bruises inflicted on you by Clinton’s term “deplorables”, but when time after time individuals, some of them Republicans, are sucker-punched, knocked around, and hauled out of a trump campaign venue at the orders from the punk on the dias, not a fucking peep out of you.
Aren’t their ANY echos around here you find worthy of yodeling to?
Marty, the hatred you’ve expressed for Clinton and Obama over the past two years has been near hysterical. Fine. Have at it. The only criticism I have is that you aren’t funny.
On the other hand, your dislike of trump and Sessions (an unreconstructed racist), for example, have been expressed in the most anodyne, politically correct terms.
That disparity, which seems pristinely objective to you, I guess, may be many things, but the “fence” it is not.
You’re not C-Span by a long shot, and if you were, you’d be hacked by Russia and would call it commercial break.
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
For the record, I don’t know who’s playing at the inauguration, and don’t care, since I plan to do other things on Friday.
But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Poor baby – he might have thought about that when he promoted the birther movement.
As to whether Trump is illegitimate, if he colluded with a foreign government to perform electronic theft in order to gain assistance in becoming elected (seemingly in exchange for promoting a foreign leader’s agenda – one that is adverse to the interests of the United States and its longtime treaty partners), I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
For the record, I don’t know who’s playing at the inauguration, and don’t care, since I plan to do other things on Friday.
But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Poor baby – he might have thought about that when he promoted the birther movement.
As to whether Trump is illegitimate, if he colluded with a foreign government to perform electronic theft in order to gain assistance in becoming elected (seemingly in exchange for promoting a foreign leader’s agenda – one that is adverse to the interests of the United States and its longtime treaty partners), I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
For the record, I don’t know who’s playing at the inauguration, and don’t care, since I plan to do other things on Friday.
But, I can understand that he hears everyday how he is illegitimate and feels the need to push back on that.
Poor baby – he might have thought about that when he promoted the birther movement.
As to whether Trump is illegitimate, if he colluded with a foreign government to perform electronic theft in order to gain assistance in becoming elected (seemingly in exchange for promoting a foreign leader’s agenda – one that is adverse to the interests of the United States and its longtime treaty partners), I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
Oh, that’s completely different. Refusing to buy someone’s music or attend their concerts is just like shooting a bunch of people in church. Hate is hate, right?
Feh…
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
Oh, that’s completely different. Refusing to buy someone’s music or attend their concerts is just like shooting a bunch of people in church. Hate is hate, right?
Feh…
Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
Oh, that’s completely different. Refusing to buy someone’s music or attend their concerts is just like shooting a bunch of people in church. Hate is hate, right?
Feh…
Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group.
He certainly can, but when, as the Count points out, he casts Obama as a tyrant and Clinton as a criminal, yet his only response to this is an invocation of liberal hate, I call it obnoxious bs, regardless whether Marty himself notices the aroma or not.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration. My impression was that no one, except those whom Trump could order to do so, were. I’m also looking thru the Gopnik piece to see where he makes that claim and am coming up empty. So, is Marty lying or just oblivious to the fact that he’s making stuff up? after a certain point, I don’t think it really makes a difference.
Gopnik’s piece was a serious bit of reflection, imo. If you think the metaphor of American culture as polyphony, a wide range of voices that somehow create something greater than any of the individual voices alone, is too flowery or overblown, have at it. But if you make up shit about what people write, and weave notions of liberal conspiracies to silence all those artists who just want to play that gig, or falsely claim that we are hating on I have no idea who is taking the inauguaration gig, you are being obnoxious and are going to get called on it.
Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group.
He certainly can, but when, as the Count points out, he casts Obama as a tyrant and Clinton as a criminal, yet his only response to this is an invocation of liberal hate, I call it obnoxious bs, regardless whether Marty himself notices the aroma or not.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration. My impression was that no one, except those whom Trump could order to do so, were. I’m also looking thru the Gopnik piece to see where he makes that claim and am coming up empty. So, is Marty lying or just oblivious to the fact that he’s making stuff up? after a certain point, I don’t think it really makes a difference.
Gopnik’s piece was a serious bit of reflection, imo. If you think the metaphor of American culture as polyphony, a wide range of voices that somehow create something greater than any of the individual voices alone, is too flowery or overblown, have at it. But if you make up shit about what people write, and weave notions of liberal conspiracies to silence all those artists who just want to play that gig, or falsely claim that we are hating on I have no idea who is taking the inauguaration gig, you are being obnoxious and are going to get called on it.
Marty can be “on the fence” about Trump but still have a knee-jerk assumption that any large-scale liberal actions (particularity those by “snobby Hollywood limousine liberals”) are reflections of ill will, bad faith, and unprincipled tribal malice on the part of liberals as a group.
He certainly can, but when, as the Count points out, he casts Obama as a tyrant and Clinton as a criminal, yet his only response to this is an invocation of liberal hate, I call it obnoxious bs, regardless whether Marty himself notices the aroma or not.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it. Hating on someone for agreeing to play at the inauguration? Yeah, hate is hate.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration. My impression was that no one, except those whom Trump could order to do so, were. I’m also looking thru the Gopnik piece to see where he makes that claim and am coming up empty. So, is Marty lying or just oblivious to the fact that he’s making stuff up? after a certain point, I don’t think it really makes a difference.
Gopnik’s piece was a serious bit of reflection, imo. If you think the metaphor of American culture as polyphony, a wide range of voices that somehow create something greater than any of the individual voices alone, is too flowery or overblown, have at it. But if you make up shit about what people write, and weave notions of liberal conspiracies to silence all those artists who just want to play that gig, or falsely claim that we are hating on I have no idea who is taking the inauguaration gig, you are being obnoxious and are going to get called on it.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration.
Someone somewhere must have said something about hating someone else over this inauguration, therefore liberal hate machine.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration.
Someone somewhere must have said something about hating someone else over this inauguration, therefore liberal hate machine.
I’m trying to see where anyone here said they hated someone for playing at Trump’s inauguration.
Someone somewhere must have said something about hating someone else over this inauguration, therefore liberal hate machine.
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it.
Marty, FYI you may be all for it. But from the comment that you wrote, it definitely appeared that you weren’t. Quite the opposite. I sure read you that way.
Note also that, while some slammed you over this, some of the more liberal folks here have been wading into the discussion on your behalf. Just sayin’
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it.
Marty, FYI you may be all for it. But from the comment that you wrote, it definitely appeared that you weren’t. Quite the opposite. I sure read you that way.
Note also that, while some slammed you over this, some of the more liberal folks here have been wading into the discussion on your behalf. Just sayin’
Turning someone down for a musical gig? I never said a thing about that. In fact, I support it.
Marty, FYI you may be all for it. But from the comment that you wrote, it definitely appeared that you weren’t. Quite the opposite. I sure read you that way.
Note also that, while some slammed you over this, some of the more liberal folks here have been wading into the discussion on your behalf. Just sayin’
I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
Because otherwise, every elected official who connived at shady “dirty tricks” tactics was illegitimate. You can easily move from there to saying that their actions while in office are invalid. Which, regrettably, means a huge chunk of the law (not to mention regulations) has to be redone. Not just the parts that you oppose either.
I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
Because otherwise, every elected official who connived at shady “dirty tricks” tactics was illegitimate. You can easily move from there to saying that their actions while in office are invalid. Which, regrettably, means a huge chunk of the law (not to mention regulations) has to be redone. Not just the parts that you oppose either.
I say he’s a thief, a traitor and that he was illegitimately elected.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
Because otherwise, every elected official who connived at shady “dirty tricks” tactics was illegitimate. You can easily move from there to saying that their actions while in office are invalid. Which, regrettably, means a huge chunk of the law (not to mention regulations) has to be redone. Not just the parts that you oppose either.
Yeah Count I have said that people being attacked at Trump rallies was wrong, and bad and then we found out that the Dems were sending people in to start fights.
I don’t attack Trump because the reasons not to like him are fairly well covered here. I didn’t spend two years talking about Obama and Clinton, I bet you can’t find 5 threads that I expounded on that at any length whatsoever. And each of those was when I was attacked, almost literally, for not supporting her over Johnson. Even by you.
What possible need is there to ever comment here on my view of Trump as a person again? I have steadfastly refused to support him, but he is President, so I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President. I was one of the first to say that Jeff Sessions was an inappropriate pick.
Not sure of all the others, some are worse than others. Some that you don’t like I probably don’t mind.
Yeah Count I have said that people being attacked at Trump rallies was wrong, and bad and then we found out that the Dems were sending people in to start fights.
I don’t attack Trump because the reasons not to like him are fairly well covered here. I didn’t spend two years talking about Obama and Clinton, I bet you can’t find 5 threads that I expounded on that at any length whatsoever. And each of those was when I was attacked, almost literally, for not supporting her over Johnson. Even by you.
What possible need is there to ever comment here on my view of Trump as a person again? I have steadfastly refused to support him, but he is President, so I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President. I was one of the first to say that Jeff Sessions was an inappropriate pick.
Not sure of all the others, some are worse than others. Some that you don’t like I probably don’t mind.
Yeah Count I have said that people being attacked at Trump rallies was wrong, and bad and then we found out that the Dems were sending people in to start fights.
I don’t attack Trump because the reasons not to like him are fairly well covered here. I didn’t spend two years talking about Obama and Clinton, I bet you can’t find 5 threads that I expounded on that at any length whatsoever. And each of those was when I was attacked, almost literally, for not supporting her over Johnson. Even by you.
What possible need is there to ever comment here on my view of Trump as a person again? I have steadfastly refused to support him, but he is President, so I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President. I was one of the first to say that Jeff Sessions was an inappropriate pick.
Not sure of all the others, some are worse than others. Some that you don’t like I probably don’t mind.
I wonder if Republicans Bob Hope and ji-jim-uh-ji-Jimmy Stewart would have shown up at this festivo, like they did for Reagan and Bush.
And here’s some bullying by a sniveling little ratfucking twerp trump consigliere, as bully Chris Christie looks on in envy from exile, against a guy trying to so his job as a public servant.
A threat. In an ethical world, the Ethics Chief would physically flatten Priebus’ out of joint proboscis at their next meeting.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/priebus-warns-ethics-chief-to-be-careful-about-criticizing-trump.
By the way, for my own self, I hate Ted Nugent whether he plays at the Inaugural or not. If I get the chance, I’m going to piss on his bed.
Also, Russell more eloquently than I pointed out Marty’s propensity for calling Obama a tyrant.
I wonder if Republicans Bob Hope and ji-jim-uh-ji-Jimmy Stewart would have shown up at this festivo, like they did for Reagan and Bush.
And here’s some bullying by a sniveling little ratfucking twerp trump consigliere, as bully Chris Christie looks on in envy from exile, against a guy trying to so his job as a public servant.
A threat. In an ethical world, the Ethics Chief would physically flatten Priebus’ out of joint proboscis at their next meeting.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/priebus-warns-ethics-chief-to-be-careful-about-criticizing-trump.
By the way, for my own self, I hate Ted Nugent whether he plays at the Inaugural or not. If I get the chance, I’m going to piss on his bed.
Also, Russell more eloquently than I pointed out Marty’s propensity for calling Obama a tyrant.
I wonder if Republicans Bob Hope and ji-jim-uh-ji-Jimmy Stewart would have shown up at this festivo, like they did for Reagan and Bush.
And here’s some bullying by a sniveling little ratfucking twerp trump consigliere, as bully Chris Christie looks on in envy from exile, against a guy trying to so his job as a public servant.
A threat. In an ethical world, the Ethics Chief would physically flatten Priebus’ out of joint proboscis at their next meeting.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/priebus-warns-ethics-chief-to-be-careful-about-criticizing-trump.
By the way, for my own self, I hate Ted Nugent whether he plays at the Inaugural or not. If I get the chance, I’m going to piss on his bed.
Also, Russell more eloquently than I pointed out Marty’s propensity for calling Obama a tyrant.
Jennifer Holliday’s statement on withdrawing from performing at the inauguration is really interesting reading. In part:
One can certainly read that as a response to bullying. One can also read it as someone reflecting on her priorities, including acknowledge who gives her success, and adopting some of their concerns as her own in appreciative response.
Jennifer Holliday’s statement on withdrawing from performing at the inauguration is really interesting reading. In part:
One can certainly read that as a response to bullying. One can also read it as someone reflecting on her priorities, including acknowledge who gives her success, and adopting some of their concerns as her own in appreciative response.
Jennifer Holliday’s statement on withdrawing from performing at the inauguration is really interesting reading. In part:
One can certainly read that as a response to bullying. One can also read it as someone reflecting on her priorities, including acknowledge who gives her success, and adopting some of their concerns as her own in appreciative response.
Here’s some hate which I was thinking about submitting as a post to OBWI some time ago, but this is as good a time as any for my proposal.
Given Marty’s evident discomfort with Obamacare, mostly the $12,000 annual deductible he claims he is subject to under the plan he has chosen, which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming, I propose to send a check to Marty for $1000, if he needs it and if he accepts it to help meet his annual deductible in 2017 or to help pay a portion of his Obamacare premiums for the year.
While it would be nice if other OBWI regulars offered to match some or all of my $1000 offer for the year, my offer is not in any way contingent upon anyone else stepping forward.
Further, once and if Obamacare is repealed and IF it is replaced with yet another high deductible set of catastrophic insurance plans strictly thru the private sector, as the fake socialists Paul Ryan and Tom Price are proposing, with whatever inadequate premium support is provided and IF those with pre-existing conditions are grandfathered into the new plan, which, by the way, would never occur to republicans had it not been for Obama, I will send a $2000 check to Marty for the 2018 tax year to help cover a portion of THOSE deductibles and premiums, if he needs it and will accept it.
After 2018, I can’t promise anything, because I fully expect to be fucked on my own Medicare arrangement by then.
I’m sure there might be some technical details ironed out with Marty about this. For example, I prefer to send a check of some kind, rather than cash, because I want to make sure the IRS, while it still exists in its present form, is able to collect gift taxes on this offer, should it be carried out.
Marty, if you will accept either or both of these offers, let the Kitty know and she will drop the gun and give you my email address so you can respond personally to me. If the Kitty needs that email address, the kitty can say so in a comment on this thread and I will supply it through channels.
I do not require Marty’s tax returns for this offer. Nor do I ask for anything in return.
I suppose there might be a time limit on this offer, but I hate to cause the dreaded uncertainty (remember that, the uncertainty we heard about ad nauseum a few years ago for corporate finance officers and a relatively few folks who had to change their policies to conform to 20 million Americans getting any kind of insurance at all) for a guy who might be in medical need.
But let’s say after April 15, 2017, the offer will disappear, unless before that I find a lump on myself somewhere or get run over by a bus and have to pay my own deductibles.
None of this is very businesslike, but if I were a businessman, I would shrug and tell you you are out of luck altogether, Marty.
Further, money is one thing, but don’t ever ask me to bake you a cake. 😉
Let me know via the Kitty. Have a good day. I don’t know what day it is anyway, but since Jesse Helms is back in the saddle, it won’t matter much soon.
Here’s some hate which I was thinking about submitting as a post to OBWI some time ago, but this is as good a time as any for my proposal.
Given Marty’s evident discomfort with Obamacare, mostly the $12,000 annual deductible he claims he is subject to under the plan he has chosen, which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming, I propose to send a check to Marty for $1000, if he needs it and if he accepts it to help meet his annual deductible in 2017 or to help pay a portion of his Obamacare premiums for the year.
While it would be nice if other OBWI regulars offered to match some or all of my $1000 offer for the year, my offer is not in any way contingent upon anyone else stepping forward.
Further, once and if Obamacare is repealed and IF it is replaced with yet another high deductible set of catastrophic insurance plans strictly thru the private sector, as the fake socialists Paul Ryan and Tom Price are proposing, with whatever inadequate premium support is provided and IF those with pre-existing conditions are grandfathered into the new plan, which, by the way, would never occur to republicans had it not been for Obama, I will send a $2000 check to Marty for the 2018 tax year to help cover a portion of THOSE deductibles and premiums, if he needs it and will accept it.
After 2018, I can’t promise anything, because I fully expect to be fucked on my own Medicare arrangement by then.
I’m sure there might be some technical details ironed out with Marty about this. For example, I prefer to send a check of some kind, rather than cash, because I want to make sure the IRS, while it still exists in its present form, is able to collect gift taxes on this offer, should it be carried out.
Marty, if you will accept either or both of these offers, let the Kitty know and she will drop the gun and give you my email address so you can respond personally to me. If the Kitty needs that email address, the kitty can say so in a comment on this thread and I will supply it through channels.
I do not require Marty’s tax returns for this offer. Nor do I ask for anything in return.
I suppose there might be a time limit on this offer, but I hate to cause the dreaded uncertainty (remember that, the uncertainty we heard about ad nauseum a few years ago for corporate finance officers and a relatively few folks who had to change their policies to conform to 20 million Americans getting any kind of insurance at all) for a guy who might be in medical need.
But let’s say after April 15, 2017, the offer will disappear, unless before that I find a lump on myself somewhere or get run over by a bus and have to pay my own deductibles.
None of this is very businesslike, but if I were a businessman, I would shrug and tell you you are out of luck altogether, Marty.
Further, money is one thing, but don’t ever ask me to bake you a cake. 😉
Let me know via the Kitty. Have a good day. I don’t know what day it is anyway, but since Jesse Helms is back in the saddle, it won’t matter much soon.
Here’s some hate which I was thinking about submitting as a post to OBWI some time ago, but this is as good a time as any for my proposal.
Given Marty’s evident discomfort with Obamacare, mostly the $12,000 annual deductible he claims he is subject to under the plan he has chosen, which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming, I propose to send a check to Marty for $1000, if he needs it and if he accepts it to help meet his annual deductible in 2017 or to help pay a portion of his Obamacare premiums for the year.
While it would be nice if other OBWI regulars offered to match some or all of my $1000 offer for the year, my offer is not in any way contingent upon anyone else stepping forward.
Further, once and if Obamacare is repealed and IF it is replaced with yet another high deductible set of catastrophic insurance plans strictly thru the private sector, as the fake socialists Paul Ryan and Tom Price are proposing, with whatever inadequate premium support is provided and IF those with pre-existing conditions are grandfathered into the new plan, which, by the way, would never occur to republicans had it not been for Obama, I will send a $2000 check to Marty for the 2018 tax year to help cover a portion of THOSE deductibles and premiums, if he needs it and will accept it.
After 2018, I can’t promise anything, because I fully expect to be fucked on my own Medicare arrangement by then.
I’m sure there might be some technical details ironed out with Marty about this. For example, I prefer to send a check of some kind, rather than cash, because I want to make sure the IRS, while it still exists in its present form, is able to collect gift taxes on this offer, should it be carried out.
Marty, if you will accept either or both of these offers, let the Kitty know and she will drop the gun and give you my email address so you can respond personally to me. If the Kitty needs that email address, the kitty can say so in a comment on this thread and I will supply it through channels.
I do not require Marty’s tax returns for this offer. Nor do I ask for anything in return.
I suppose there might be a time limit on this offer, but I hate to cause the dreaded uncertainty (remember that, the uncertainty we heard about ad nauseum a few years ago for corporate finance officers and a relatively few folks who had to change their policies to conform to 20 million Americans getting any kind of insurance at all) for a guy who might be in medical need.
But let’s say after April 15, 2017, the offer will disappear, unless before that I find a lump on myself somewhere or get run over by a bus and have to pay my own deductibles.
None of this is very businesslike, but if I were a businessman, I would shrug and tell you you are out of luck altogether, Marty.
Further, money is one thing, but don’t ever ask me to bake you a cake. 😉
Let me know via the Kitty. Have a good day. I don’t know what day it is anyway, but since Jesse Helms is back in the saddle, it won’t matter much soon.
Marty, you left out the sexual assault, the lying (uncommon in its degree for politicians, and the racial/ethnic/religious provocations. You do mention that corruption could be an issue, but this misses the point. Anyone seeking to communicate respect for the People and the Office would’ve dealt with their unique situation as a business man to be extremely fastidious regarding ethics.
So if you want to argue it’s “hate” (a.k.a irrational unprincipled “bullying”), you need to establish that none of this is relevant, it’s actually just that he’s an -R. Earlier commenters gave evidence that Bush IIA and IIB both evaded the “liberal hate machine”. What’s your counter point?
Not only have you not engaged with the core counter argument (Trump is getting the hate because he’s uniquely awful), you have added fanatastical claims: that the Left equates Trump to Mussolini, that the Left wants to see a coup d’etat. That’s poor form.
Again, the more fundamental issue is that liberals seek to enforce taboos against behaviors they find morally odious. We see this (attempted, sometimes successfully) regularly. But, what is the alternative? A taboo against taboos? Where we all feel pressured to abjure social organization and express nothing but individual desires and aversions, where right and wrong can only exist as lawful or unlawful? Economic activity must only be individual and hedonic? Can you not imagine how oppressive – in fact, totalitarian- such a society would be?
That to me is the heart of the matter that Conservatives struggle with, once we get beyond the obfuscation around what Trump is and why The Left seeks to shame his enablers.
Marty, you left out the sexual assault, the lying (uncommon in its degree for politicians, and the racial/ethnic/religious provocations. You do mention that corruption could be an issue, but this misses the point. Anyone seeking to communicate respect for the People and the Office would’ve dealt with their unique situation as a business man to be extremely fastidious regarding ethics.
So if you want to argue it’s “hate” (a.k.a irrational unprincipled “bullying”), you need to establish that none of this is relevant, it’s actually just that he’s an -R. Earlier commenters gave evidence that Bush IIA and IIB both evaded the “liberal hate machine”. What’s your counter point?
Not only have you not engaged with the core counter argument (Trump is getting the hate because he’s uniquely awful), you have added fanatastical claims: that the Left equates Trump to Mussolini, that the Left wants to see a coup d’etat. That’s poor form.
Again, the more fundamental issue is that liberals seek to enforce taboos against behaviors they find morally odious. We see this (attempted, sometimes successfully) regularly. But, what is the alternative? A taboo against taboos? Where we all feel pressured to abjure social organization and express nothing but individual desires and aversions, where right and wrong can only exist as lawful or unlawful? Economic activity must only be individual and hedonic? Can you not imagine how oppressive – in fact, totalitarian- such a society would be?
That to me is the heart of the matter that Conservatives struggle with, once we get beyond the obfuscation around what Trump is and why The Left seeks to shame his enablers.
Marty, you left out the sexual assault, the lying (uncommon in its degree for politicians, and the racial/ethnic/religious provocations. You do mention that corruption could be an issue, but this misses the point. Anyone seeking to communicate respect for the People and the Office would’ve dealt with their unique situation as a business man to be extremely fastidious regarding ethics.
So if you want to argue it’s “hate” (a.k.a irrational unprincipled “bullying”), you need to establish that none of this is relevant, it’s actually just that he’s an -R. Earlier commenters gave evidence that Bush IIA and IIB both evaded the “liberal hate machine”. What’s your counter point?
Not only have you not engaged with the core counter argument (Trump is getting the hate because he’s uniquely awful), you have added fanatastical claims: that the Left equates Trump to Mussolini, that the Left wants to see a coup d’etat. That’s poor form.
Again, the more fundamental issue is that liberals seek to enforce taboos against behaviors they find morally odious. We see this (attempted, sometimes successfully) regularly. But, what is the alternative? A taboo against taboos? Where we all feel pressured to abjure social organization and express nothing but individual desires and aversions, where right and wrong can only exist as lawful or unlawful? Economic activity must only be individual and hedonic? Can you not imagine how oppressive – in fact, totalitarian- such a society would be?
That to me is the heart of the matter that Conservatives struggle with, once we get beyond the obfuscation around what Trump is and why The Left seeks to shame his enablers.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
No. It doesn’t.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
No. It doesn’t.
Does it occur to you that it is possible to believe that, IF he did those things he is both a thief and a traitor. But that he was legitimately elected nonetheless?
No. It doesn’t.
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much, but I’ll lurk to keep up, among other things, with my offer to Marty.
Why?
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/why-republicans-hate-obamacare
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much, but I’ll lurk to keep up, among other things, with my offer to Marty.
Why?
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/why-republicans-hate-obamacare
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much, but I’ll lurk to keep up, among other things, with my offer to Marty.
Why?
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/why-republicans-hate-obamacare
I suppose now anyone can write to the Kitty under Marty’s name and ask for email address, even a Russian.
So, how do we prove to each other who the each of is so we’re on the up and up?
I suppose now anyone can write to the Kitty under Marty’s name and ask for email address, even a Russian.
So, how do we prove to each other who the each of is so we’re on the up and up?
I suppose now anyone can write to the Kitty under Marty’s name and ask for email address, even a Russian.
So, how do we prove to each other who the each of is so we’re on the up and up?
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
This is exactly right. Marty’s (and to a certain extent McKinney’s) past assumptions about Obama’s tyranny and HRC’s “ongoing criminal career” (exact quotation from Marty: once read never forgotten) look from outside the USA and even outside the liberal bubble like the ravings of madmen. I’m sorry to say this, and mean no real disrespect to the two of them, whose contributions I have always felt to be important to the micro-biome here, but this is the truth.
But Marty is right, he was always against Trump, and he did immediately say Sessions was an unacceptable pick. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to think that the election was tainted and that Trump’s presidency is illegitimate, but weirdly he seems to buy every nutty rightwing theory going, like the fact that the people beaten and ejected from Trump rallies were because the Dems were sending people in to start fights. Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?
Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.
Does what he says constitute a part of what he does? Because in his joint interview with the Times and Bild this morning:
I know Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world, but presumably putting one of the staunchest defenders of western democracy and values, and chief alliance of the USA, in the same basket with Putin the well-established gangster and thug, (yet possible holder of incriminating evidence), is a cause for concern? Or do the USA’s alliances and foreign relations fall into the category of unimportant issues?
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
This is exactly right. Marty’s (and to a certain extent McKinney’s) past assumptions about Obama’s tyranny and HRC’s “ongoing criminal career” (exact quotation from Marty: once read never forgotten) look from outside the USA and even outside the liberal bubble like the ravings of madmen. I’m sorry to say this, and mean no real disrespect to the two of them, whose contributions I have always felt to be important to the micro-biome here, but this is the truth.
But Marty is right, he was always against Trump, and he did immediately say Sessions was an unacceptable pick. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to think that the election was tainted and that Trump’s presidency is illegitimate, but weirdly he seems to buy every nutty rightwing theory going, like the fact that the people beaten and ejected from Trump rallies were because the Dems were sending people in to start fights. Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?
Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.
Does what he says constitute a part of what he does? Because in his joint interview with the Times and Bild this morning:
I know Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world, but presumably putting one of the staunchest defenders of western democracy and values, and chief alliance of the USA, in the same basket with Putin the well-established gangster and thug, (yet possible holder of incriminating evidence), is a cause for concern? Or do the USA’s alliances and foreign relations fall into the category of unimportant issues?
Lastly, I’ll note the irony of claims of a “liberal hate machine” coming from a guy who considers Obama an unreconstructed tyrant, and Hilary Clinton one of the most evil people in history.
This is exactly right. Marty’s (and to a certain extent McKinney’s) past assumptions about Obama’s tyranny and HRC’s “ongoing criminal career” (exact quotation from Marty: once read never forgotten) look from outside the USA and even outside the liberal bubble like the ravings of madmen. I’m sorry to say this, and mean no real disrespect to the two of them, whose contributions I have always felt to be important to the micro-biome here, but this is the truth.
But Marty is right, he was always against Trump, and he did immediately say Sessions was an unacceptable pick. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to think that the election was tainted and that Trump’s presidency is illegitimate, but weirdly he seems to buy every nutty rightwing theory going, like the fact that the people beaten and ejected from Trump rallies were because the Dems were sending people in to start fights. Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?
Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.
Does what he says constitute a part of what he does? Because in his joint interview with the Times and Bild this morning:
I know Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world, but presumably putting one of the staunchest defenders of western democracy and values, and chief alliance of the USA, in the same basket with Putin the well-established gangster and thug, (yet possible holder of incriminating evidence), is a cause for concern? Or do the USA’s alliances and foreign relations fall into the category of unimportant issues?
John Lewis needs to forgo the peaceful civil disobedience stuff, and go after this cracker thug physically:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/john-lewis-racist-pig-demonrat
Happy MLK Day.
John Lewis needs to forgo the peaceful civil disobedience stuff, and go after this cracker thug physically:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/john-lewis-racist-pig-demonrat
Happy MLK Day.
John Lewis needs to forgo the peaceful civil disobedience stuff, and go after this cracker thug physically:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/john-lewis-racist-pig-demonrat
Happy MLK Day.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
“your friends suck”
Because their kid was afraid of a Trump presidency. They suck. They’re haters, teaching their kid hate.
As if you know one fucking thing about my friends and loved ones.
I understand from postings here that people close to you supported Trump. Vigorously. Have I ever said that those people suck?
No. Nor would I think it.
So you can try that line with someone else, but not me. Not now, not ever.
As far as the other BS, go and search the annals of ObWi and see if you can find me calling for anything whatsoever than the orderly transfer of power from Obama to Trump. You will find nothing.
Nothing.
As far as people being “hated” out of performing for Trump, you are talking about Jennifer Holliday and Andrea Boccelli. Both received very hostile reactions to their initial choice to perform. In Bocelli’s case, there were apparently threats against his life.
All of that is hateful, and sucks. And I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Is there a right-wing “hate machine”? Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty? Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others? If you don’t make it stop, right now, you must obviously be in total support of it.
All of you right-wingers, you’re just a bunch of blood-thirsty bullying fascists-in-waiting. It’s what being “on the right” is all about.
Either that, or maybe your reaction to the whole thing is just more evidence that you are unhinged. Delusional.
See, I just handed you a mirror. Take a look in it.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
“your friends suck”
Because their kid was afraid of a Trump presidency. They suck. They’re haters, teaching their kid hate.
As if you know one fucking thing about my friends and loved ones.
I understand from postings here that people close to you supported Trump. Vigorously. Have I ever said that those people suck?
No. Nor would I think it.
So you can try that line with someone else, but not me. Not now, not ever.
As far as the other BS, go and search the annals of ObWi and see if you can find me calling for anything whatsoever than the orderly transfer of power from Obama to Trump. You will find nothing.
Nothing.
As far as people being “hated” out of performing for Trump, you are talking about Jennifer Holliday and Andrea Boccelli. Both received very hostile reactions to their initial choice to perform. In Bocelli’s case, there were apparently threats against his life.
All of that is hateful, and sucks. And I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Is there a right-wing “hate machine”? Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty? Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others? If you don’t make it stop, right now, you must obviously be in total support of it.
All of you right-wingers, you’re just a bunch of blood-thirsty bullying fascists-in-waiting. It’s what being “on the right” is all about.
Either that, or maybe your reaction to the whole thing is just more evidence that you are unhinged. Delusional.
See, I just handed you a mirror. Take a look in it.
And I am far from being obnoxious in this thread or others.
“your friends suck”
Because their kid was afraid of a Trump presidency. They suck. They’re haters, teaching their kid hate.
As if you know one fucking thing about my friends and loved ones.
I understand from postings here that people close to you supported Trump. Vigorously. Have I ever said that those people suck?
No. Nor would I think it.
So you can try that line with someone else, but not me. Not now, not ever.
As far as the other BS, go and search the annals of ObWi and see if you can find me calling for anything whatsoever than the orderly transfer of power from Obama to Trump. You will find nothing.
Nothing.
As far as people being “hated” out of performing for Trump, you are talking about Jennifer Holliday and Andrea Boccelli. Both received very hostile reactions to their initial choice to perform. In Bocelli’s case, there were apparently threats against his life.
All of that is hateful, and sucks. And I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Is there a right-wing “hate machine”? Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty? Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others? If you don’t make it stop, right now, you must obviously be in total support of it.
All of you right-wingers, you’re just a bunch of blood-thirsty bullying fascists-in-waiting. It’s what being “on the right” is all about.
Either that, or maybe your reaction to the whole thing is just more evidence that you are unhinged. Delusional.
See, I just handed you a mirror. Take a look in it.
“Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?”
People got fired at the DNC:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/18/undercover-video-democratic-operatives-griffin-tell-lead.cnn
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
“Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?”
People got fired at the DNC:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/18/undercover-video-democratic-operatives-griffin-tell-lead.cnn
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
“Is there much, if any, evidence for this other than Trump’s glossolalia?”
People got fired at the DNC:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/18/undercover-video-democratic-operatives-griffin-tell-lead.cnn
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world
Not an uncommon sentiment. Some of my Trump-supporting family members say the same.
Unfortunately, “the rest of the world” is unlikely to just go away and leave us alone.
I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is
Unfortunately, to a degree that is unmatched by anyone else I can think of among national office-holders, what he does and what an asshole he is are virtually impossible to tease apart.
Maybe you have better tweezers than I do.
Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world
Not an uncommon sentiment. Some of my Trump-supporting family members say the same.
Unfortunately, “the rest of the world” is unlikely to just go away and leave us alone.
I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is
Unfortunately, to a degree that is unmatched by anyone else I can think of among national office-holders, what he does and what an asshole he is are virtually impossible to tease apart.
Maybe you have better tweezers than I do.
Marty has said in the past that he is not too concerned with the rest of the world
Not an uncommon sentiment. Some of my Trump-supporting family members say the same.
Unfortunately, “the rest of the world” is unlikely to just go away and leave us alone.
I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is
Unfortunately, to a degree that is unmatched by anyone else I can think of among national office-holders, what he does and what an asshole he is are virtually impossible to tease apart.
Maybe you have better tweezers than I do.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
It was a James O’Keefe special.
But his work is probably what we’re going to be getting a lot more of during the coming Putin/Trump regime.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
It was a James O’Keefe special.
But his work is probably what we’re going to be getting a lot more of during the coming Putin/Trump regime.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN.
It was a James O’Keefe special.
But his work is probably what we’re going to be getting a lot more of during the coming Putin/Trump regime.
I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Writing this set me off on a walk down memory lane of all of the examples.
My favorite recent one was Breitbart’s campaign against Kellogg’s, because they withdrew their advertising.
Call out the flying monkeys!! Tony the Tiger must die!!! Corn Flakes delendo est!!!!
Anything For A Laugh. Our new national motto, soon to be replaced by Never Give A Sucker An Even Break.
I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Writing this set me off on a walk down memory lane of all of the examples.
My favorite recent one was Breitbart’s campaign against Kellogg’s, because they withdrew their advertising.
Call out the flying monkeys!! Tony the Tiger must die!!! Corn Flakes delendo est!!!!
Anything For A Laugh. Our new national motto, soon to be replaced by Never Give A Sucker An Even Break.
I can assure you that it happens, more than often, the other way around.
Writing this set me off on a walk down memory lane of all of the examples.
My favorite recent one was Breitbart’s campaign against Kellogg’s, because they withdrew their advertising.
Call out the flying monkeys!! Tony the Tiger must die!!! Corn Flakes delendo est!!!!
Anything For A Laugh. Our new national motto, soon to be replaced by Never Give A Sucker An Even Break.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN
It was a James O’Keefe special.
Yes, from what I can tell, despite it being James O’Keefe with all the shadiness that implies, some of HRC’s people were discussing very dodgy tactics, but not only is there no proof they actually did any of it, it would suggest an extraordinarily high level of efficiency and organisation on their part if you thought they were actually responsible for all the (very frequent) violence and ugliness at Trump’s rallies.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN
It was a James O’Keefe special.
Yes, from what I can tell, despite it being James O’Keefe with all the shadiness that implies, some of HRC’s people were discussing very dodgy tactics, but not only is there no proof they actually did any of it, it would suggest an extraordinarily high level of efficiency and organisation on their part if you thought they were actually responsible for all the (very frequent) violence and ugliness at Trump’s rallies.
In a world of fake news this seemed pretty real. It made CNN
It was a James O’Keefe special.
Yes, from what I can tell, despite it being James O’Keefe with all the shadiness that implies, some of HRC’s people were discussing very dodgy tactics, but not only is there no proof they actually did any of it, it would suggest an extraordinarily high level of efficiency and organisation on their part if you thought they were actually responsible for all the (very frequent) violence and ugliness at Trump’s rallies.
Project Veritas Action
Not only is irony dead, noting the fact that irony is dead, is dead.
Project Veritas Action
Not only is irony dead, noting the fact that irony is dead, is dead.
Project Veritas Action
Not only is irony dead, noting the fact that irony is dead, is dead.
GftNC: “Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.”
OK, folks, let’s try an exercise in fairness. Trump has not done exclusively bad things. For example, he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Now you may be unhappy with repeal at all. But it seems impossible to deny that it is a huge step better than what the Republicans in Congress were talking about doing. Not good, perhaps, but undeniably better.
And then there is the fact that he keeps talking about covering more people. The only way to do that is either force those states which didn’t expand MedicAid to do so (on, the horror!), or increase the penalties for not buying insurance (oh, more horror!). Well, that or go to single payer (aka Medicare for all) — i.e. what Congressional Republicans would regard as even worse than Obamacare.
“Even a blind pig gets an acorn now and then.” And it seems reasonable to acknowledge it when it happens.
GftNC: “Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.”
OK, folks, let’s try an exercise in fairness. Trump has not done exclusively bad things. For example, he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Now you may be unhappy with repeal at all. But it seems impossible to deny that it is a huge step better than what the Republicans in Congress were talking about doing. Not good, perhaps, but undeniably better.
And then there is the fact that he keeps talking about covering more people. The only way to do that is either force those states which didn’t expand MedicAid to do so (on, the horror!), or increase the penalties for not buying insurance (oh, more horror!). Well, that or go to single payer (aka Medicare for all) — i.e. what Congressional Republicans would regard as even worse than Obamacare.
“Even a blind pig gets an acorn now and then.” And it seems reasonable to acknowledge it when it happens.
GftNC: “Marty: I want to disagree with what he does, not keep rehashing what an asshole he is. At this point my only concern is what he does as a President.”
OK, folks, let’s try an exercise in fairness. Trump has not done exclusively bad things. For example, he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Now you may be unhappy with repeal at all. But it seems impossible to deny that it is a huge step better than what the Republicans in Congress were talking about doing. Not good, perhaps, but undeniably better.
And then there is the fact that he keeps talking about covering more people. The only way to do that is either force those states which didn’t expand MedicAid to do so (on, the horror!), or increase the penalties for not buying insurance (oh, more horror!). Well, that or go to single payer (aka Medicare for all) — i.e. what Congressional Republicans would regard as even worse than Obamacare.
“Even a blind pig gets an acorn now and then.” And it seems reasonable to acknowledge it when it happens.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome. Even if to do it the Republicans put in measures which they made impossible under Obama, and then take the credit for it, it will be a bitter pill to swallow, but still a very welcome outcome.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome. Even if to do it the Republicans put in measures which they made impossible under Obama, and then take the credit for it, it will be a bitter pill to swallow, but still a very welcome outcome.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome. Even if to do it the Republicans put in measures which they made impossible under Obama, and then take the credit for it, it will be a bitter pill to swallow, but still a very welcome outcome.
he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Yes, and his HHS guy Tom Price is going to present the executive agenda for replacement as soon as his nomination is approved.
Take a look at the Price plan.
he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Yes, and his HHS guy Tom Price is going to present the executive agenda for replacement as soon as his nomination is approved.
Take a look at the Price plan.
he has insisted that “repeal and delay” not happen; that a replacement plan be passed at the same time repeal is.
Yes, and his HHS guy Tom Price is going to present the executive agenda for replacement as soon as his nomination is approved.
Take a look at the Price plan.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome.
After thousands of protests against ACA repeal in cities across the country, Putin probably suggested to Trump to make that statement as a great PR move to distract peopel from his interview with the German newspaper.
Skeptical? Who me? It will be interesting to see the Teabaggers in Congress now support Medicare for All.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome.
After thousands of protests against ACA repeal in cities across the country, Putin probably suggested to Trump to make that statement as a great PR move to distract peopel from his interview with the German newspaper.
Skeptical? Who me? It will be interesting to see the Teabaggers in Congress now support Medicare for All.
If the repeal and replacement of the ACA under Trump results in more Americans getting covered, including all those with pre-existing conditions, it will be a very welcome outcome.
After thousands of protests against ACA repeal in cities across the country, Putin probably suggested to Trump to make that statement as a great PR move to distract peopel from his interview with the German newspaper.
Skeptical? Who me? It will be interesting to see the Teabaggers in Congress now support Medicare for All.
If
If
If
The Price plan.
Which Trump has said will be the executive offering for ACA replacement.
My questions:
If you don’t have surplus income to start with, what does an HSA do for you?
If you don’t make enough money to pay federal income tax, what does a tax credit do for you?
Maximum tax credit is $3K, for people over 50 years old. If you’re fifty, what kind of coverage are you gonna get for $3K?
And that is what repeal with replace is going to look like.
The Price plan.
Which Trump has said will be the executive offering for ACA replacement.
My questions:
If you don’t have surplus income to start with, what does an HSA do for you?
If you don’t make enough money to pay federal income tax, what does a tax credit do for you?
Maximum tax credit is $3K, for people over 50 years old. If you’re fifty, what kind of coverage are you gonna get for $3K?
And that is what repeal with replace is going to look like.
The Price plan.
Which Trump has said will be the executive offering for ACA replacement.
My questions:
If you don’t have surplus income to start with, what does an HSA do for you?
If you don’t make enough money to pay federal income tax, what does a tax credit do for you?
Maximum tax credit is $3K, for people over 50 years old. If you’re fifty, what kind of coverage are you gonna get for $3K?
And that is what repeal with replace is going to look like.
Recently O’Keefes outfit ran right into a counter-sting where they got taped offering 100K $$$ to a perceived liberal group for disrupting Trump’s inauguration. Nice ‘oh sh|t!’ moment at the end when the agent provocateur girl realized what had happened and for a moment thought that it was the FBI she was dealing with and considered to instantly call for a lawyer.
Recently O’Keefes outfit ran right into a counter-sting where they got taped offering 100K $$$ to a perceived liberal group for disrupting Trump’s inauguration. Nice ‘oh sh|t!’ moment at the end when the agent provocateur girl realized what had happened and for a moment thought that it was the FBI she was dealing with and considered to instantly call for a lawyer.
Recently O’Keefes outfit ran right into a counter-sting where they got taped offering 100K $$$ to a perceived liberal group for disrupting Trump’s inauguration. Nice ‘oh sh|t!’ moment at the end when the agent provocateur girl realized what had happened and for a moment thought that it was the FBI she was dealing with and considered to instantly call for a lawyer.
Thanks, russell, for the details. Sounds like “GoFundMe” is the real plan.
Thanks, russell, for the details. Sounds like “GoFundMe” is the real plan.
Thanks, russell, for the details. Sounds like “GoFundMe” is the real plan.
Yup, doesn’t sound good. Surprise, surprise.
Yup, doesn’t sound good. Surprise, surprise.
Yup, doesn’t sound good. Surprise, surprise.
No question that the Price plan isn’t going to cover more people. But then, a lot of Trump cabinet nominees seem to have very different (and, often but not always, better) views on a variety of subjects. Whether we will end up with his policies or theirs remains to be seen.
Personally, I think the smart money would bet on the worse alternative in most cases. Which doesn’t change the fact that, occasionally, what Trump says, at the moment**, is the better way to go.
** Admittedly, his record of (lack of) consistency is a factor in which way I’d bet.
No question that the Price plan isn’t going to cover more people. But then, a lot of Trump cabinet nominees seem to have very different (and, often but not always, better) views on a variety of subjects. Whether we will end up with his policies or theirs remains to be seen.
Personally, I think the smart money would bet on the worse alternative in most cases. Which doesn’t change the fact that, occasionally, what Trump says, at the moment**, is the better way to go.
** Admittedly, his record of (lack of) consistency is a factor in which way I’d bet.
No question that the Price plan isn’t going to cover more people. But then, a lot of Trump cabinet nominees seem to have very different (and, often but not always, better) views on a variety of subjects. Whether we will end up with his policies or theirs remains to be seen.
Personally, I think the smart money would bet on the worse alternative in most cases. Which doesn’t change the fact that, occasionally, what Trump says, at the moment**, is the better way to go.
** Admittedly, his record of (lack of) consistency is a factor in which way I’d bet.
“All of that is hateful, and sucks.”
Thank you.
“Is there a right-wing “hate machine”?”
Absolutely, never said there wasn’t
Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
I am responsible for not pretending it doesn’t exist. Or that it is somehow justifiable.
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty?
I do every chance I get, in discussions just like this with my right wing acquaintances.
Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others?
I don’t deny reality.
“All of that is hateful, and sucks.”
Thank you.
“Is there a right-wing “hate machine”?”
Absolutely, never said there wasn’t
Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
I am responsible for not pretending it doesn’t exist. Or that it is somehow justifiable.
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty?
I do every chance I get, in discussions just like this with my right wing acquaintances.
Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others?
I don’t deny reality.
“All of that is hateful, and sucks.”
Thank you.
“Is there a right-wing “hate machine”?”
Absolutely, never said there wasn’t
Are you, as a commenter here on ObWi, responsible for it?
I am responsible for not pretending it doesn’t exist. Or that it is somehow justifiable.
Why don’t you do something about it, Marty?
I do every chance I get, in discussions just like this with my right wing acquaintances.
Why do you accept the existence of right-wing people who bully and threaten others?
I don’t deny reality.
Hartmut, thanks. I’m providing a link for what you described.
Hartmut, thanks. I’m providing a link for what you described.
Hartmut, thanks. I’m providing a link for what you described.
Martin Longman provides another take on legitimacy.
Martin Longman provides another take on legitimacy.
Martin Longman provides another take on legitimacy.
I guess my point is that what Trump says at the moment may not actually be all that great.
If “no repeal without replacement” means replace with Price’s plan, that’s probably not going to be an improvement for very many people.
According to a Wa Post interview cited in TPM, Trump has said we’ll have insurance for everybody, deductibles will be lower, it will be less expensive, health care will be great and in a simplified form, it won’t be single payer, and Medicare and Medicaid will be able to negotiate drug prices, which will lower them.
Spokesperson Spicer adds that there will be more plans to pick from, more doctors in the plan, and health care will be cheaper.
So yeah, what he said at that moment sounds great, but what the hell does it mean?
Maybe he’s a magician and can pull a rabbit out of his hat. That would be great.
I’m sorry to be so freaking down on Trump all the time, but he’s been a thoroughly public figure for, like, 40 years, and there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
There is nothing in how he has conducted himself throughout his campaign, or since winning the election, that leads me to believe he has the inherent skill set to do the job.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
I guess my point is that what Trump says at the moment may not actually be all that great.
If “no repeal without replacement” means replace with Price’s plan, that’s probably not going to be an improvement for very many people.
According to a Wa Post interview cited in TPM, Trump has said we’ll have insurance for everybody, deductibles will be lower, it will be less expensive, health care will be great and in a simplified form, it won’t be single payer, and Medicare and Medicaid will be able to negotiate drug prices, which will lower them.
Spokesperson Spicer adds that there will be more plans to pick from, more doctors in the plan, and health care will be cheaper.
So yeah, what he said at that moment sounds great, but what the hell does it mean?
Maybe he’s a magician and can pull a rabbit out of his hat. That would be great.
I’m sorry to be so freaking down on Trump all the time, but he’s been a thoroughly public figure for, like, 40 years, and there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
There is nothing in how he has conducted himself throughout his campaign, or since winning the election, that leads me to believe he has the inherent skill set to do the job.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
I guess my point is that what Trump says at the moment may not actually be all that great.
If “no repeal without replacement” means replace with Price’s plan, that’s probably not going to be an improvement for very many people.
According to a Wa Post interview cited in TPM, Trump has said we’ll have insurance for everybody, deductibles will be lower, it will be less expensive, health care will be great and in a simplified form, it won’t be single payer, and Medicare and Medicaid will be able to negotiate drug prices, which will lower them.
Spokesperson Spicer adds that there will be more plans to pick from, more doctors in the plan, and health care will be cheaper.
So yeah, what he said at that moment sounds great, but what the hell does it mean?
Maybe he’s a magician and can pull a rabbit out of his hat. That would be great.
I’m sorry to be so freaking down on Trump all the time, but he’s been a thoroughly public figure for, like, 40 years, and there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
There is nothing in how he has conducted himself throughout his campaign, or since winning the election, that leads me to believe he has the inherent skill set to do the job.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
This is true. Also, there’s nothing about his history that indicates honesty, integrity, compassion, or intellectual curiosity.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
I wish we were trying something other than luck. (I know that many of us are trying to speak out, protest, call reps, advocate, work on local government political work. But I wish we were also trying something other than luck to get rid of him. Like an injunction. Or an arrest. Or something. Please, somebody, think of something, please.
there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
This is true. Also, there’s nothing about his history that indicates honesty, integrity, compassion, or intellectual curiosity.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
I wish we were trying something other than luck. (I know that many of us are trying to speak out, protest, call reps, advocate, work on local government political work. But I wish we were also trying something other than luck to get rid of him. Like an injunction. Or an arrest. Or something. Please, somebody, think of something, please.
there is nothing in his history that would lead me to believe that he has the skill set to do the job he’s about to step into.
This is true. Also, there’s nothing about his history that indicates honesty, integrity, compassion, or intellectual curiosity.
Best of luck to us all, I think we are going to need every ounce of it we can get.
I wish we were trying something other than luck. (I know that many of us are trying to speak out, protest, call reps, advocate, work on local government political work. But I wish we were also trying something other than luck to get rid of him. Like an injunction. Or an arrest. Or something. Please, somebody, think of something, please.
Don’t know if you all have access to Channel 4’s output, but have just watched documentary on the Dispatches strand: “Trump’s Dirty Secrets” about Trump’s and his people’s ties to the fossil fuel industry. Very interesting. Am just about to watch BBC’s political documentary strand Panorama, film titled “Trump: the Kremlin Candidate”. The trailers look pretty explosive….
Don’t know if you all have access to Channel 4’s output, but have just watched documentary on the Dispatches strand: “Trump’s Dirty Secrets” about Trump’s and his people’s ties to the fossil fuel industry. Very interesting. Am just about to watch BBC’s political documentary strand Panorama, film titled “Trump: the Kremlin Candidate”. The trailers look pretty explosive….
Don’t know if you all have access to Channel 4’s output, but have just watched documentary on the Dispatches strand: “Trump’s Dirty Secrets” about Trump’s and his people’s ties to the fossil fuel industry. Very interesting. Am just about to watch BBC’s political documentary strand Panorama, film titled “Trump: the Kremlin Candidate”. The trailers look pretty explosive….
Should have had a ? after Trump: the Kremlin Candidate. Seems pretty up to date so far.
Should have had a ? after Trump: the Kremlin Candidate. Seems pretty up to date so far.
Should have had a ? after Trump: the Kremlin Candidate. Seems pretty up to date so far.
Panorama includes fascinating interviews with Dugin (Putin’s guru), and ex-head of CIA in 2004, also Tech company demonstrating hack’s origins in Russia, among others. I seriously recommend this program, if you can get it.
Panorama includes fascinating interviews with Dugin (Putin’s guru), and ex-head of CIA in 2004, also Tech company demonstrating hack’s origins in Russia, among others. I seriously recommend this program, if you can get it.
Panorama includes fascinating interviews with Dugin (Putin’s guru), and ex-head of CIA in 2004, also Tech company demonstrating hack’s origins in Russia, among others. I seriously recommend this program, if you can get it.
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much….
Noooooooo!
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much….
Noooooooo!
Incidentally, I’ll be gone from here after Friday, pretty much….
Noooooooo!
I’ve looked at Tom Price’s plan, and I’ve observed the elitist, sadistic look on his face when he discusses it and I believe the man is mentally ill:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/any-mental-health-treatment-is-a-pre-existing-condition
He speaks with the absolute imbued certainty observed only among lunatics who shoot up black churches, movie theaters, and elementary schools.
Paul Ryan’s inane smiling and smirking when a Republican, no less, tells him face to face that Obamacare saved his life from cancer is not of this world, but rather right out of the smug canned facial expressions the fictional Dagny Taggert was given by Ayn Rand in “Atas Shrugged”.
I’ve looked at Tom Price’s plan, and I’ve observed the elitist, sadistic look on his face when he discusses it and I believe the man is mentally ill:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/any-mental-health-treatment-is-a-pre-existing-condition
He speaks with the absolute imbued certainty observed only among lunatics who shoot up black churches, movie theaters, and elementary schools.
Paul Ryan’s inane smiling and smirking when a Republican, no less, tells him face to face that Obamacare saved his life from cancer is not of this world, but rather right out of the smug canned facial expressions the fictional Dagny Taggert was given by Ayn Rand in “Atas Shrugged”.
I’ve looked at Tom Price’s plan, and I’ve observed the elitist, sadistic look on his face when he discusses it and I believe the man is mentally ill:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/01/any-mental-health-treatment-is-a-pre-existing-condition
He speaks with the absolute imbued certainty observed only among lunatics who shoot up black churches, movie theaters, and elementary schools.
Paul Ryan’s inane smiling and smirking when a Republican, no less, tells him face to face that Obamacare saved his life from cancer is not of this world, but rather right out of the smug canned facial expressions the fictional Dagny Taggert was given by Ayn Rand in “Atas Shrugged”.
Yessssss!
Yessssss!
Yessssss!
Noooooooo!
My thoughts exactly. Just another stab wound.
Noooooooo!
My thoughts exactly. Just another stab wound.
Noooooooo!
My thoughts exactly. Just another stab wound.
There will be so many wounds on the 20th and afterwards, we will be like Saint Sebastian (going overboard, would you say?), but the loss of the Count will be one of the unkindest cuts of all.
There will be so many wounds on the 20th and afterwards, we will be like Saint Sebastian (going overboard, would you say?), but the loss of the Count will be one of the unkindest cuts of all.
There will be so many wounds on the 20th and afterwards, we will be like Saint Sebastian (going overboard, would you say?), but the loss of the Count will be one of the unkindest cuts of all.
.”which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming,”
Don’t think I was ever asked. Florida Blue BlueSelect Silver 1443. (Couple)
Interesting thing about that. I have had that same policy for 3 years. The first year it was 1500 and no deductible and 25 copays. Pretty darn good insurance.
The second year it was 1500 a month 6000 (3000 each) deductible, didn’t cover as much, lots of 50% coinsurance, $35 for most doctors,out of pocket max 11 grand maybe, don’t quite remember.
This year 1500 a month 13000 deductible $65 copays, most procedures 50% coinsurance after deductible, 14000 out of pocket max. So after 31,000 I am down to just copays and then close to nothing after 32000.
Over three years, for the same premium, its gone from decent insurance to catastrophic insurance. The same policy number, silver level, I didn’t even have to get new cards.
Since I spend time back and forth between MA and FL I looked at Mass Health and the same policy was 200 a month more.
And in FL this year we were down to two companies, a pretty fly by night new company that was more expensive and Florida Blue. I think five companies the first year although fewer at the gold level, less last year, and just the two this year.
The first 0 deductible policy was a gold policy at 2200 month with $65 copays and quite a few 50% coinsurance, although more 35% coinsurances. out of pocket max was around 10, I think.
Thanks for the offer, but I will figure out how to get it paid. If I can’t, then I’m one of those folks still without insurance.
I have gone through about half my IRA at this point(Which prevents me from getting subsidized). But have found a little work so that bleeding is stopped for now.
Any more questions? This is not a secret.
.”which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming,”
Don’t think I was ever asked. Florida Blue BlueSelect Silver 1443. (Couple)
Interesting thing about that. I have had that same policy for 3 years. The first year it was 1500 and no deductible and 25 copays. Pretty darn good insurance.
The second year it was 1500 a month 6000 (3000 each) deductible, didn’t cover as much, lots of 50% coinsurance, $35 for most doctors,out of pocket max 11 grand maybe, don’t quite remember.
This year 1500 a month 13000 deductible $65 copays, most procedures 50% coinsurance after deductible, 14000 out of pocket max. So after 31,000 I am down to just copays and then close to nothing after 32000.
Over three years, for the same premium, its gone from decent insurance to catastrophic insurance. The same policy number, silver level, I didn’t even have to get new cards.
Since I spend time back and forth between MA and FL I looked at Mass Health and the same policy was 200 a month more.
And in FL this year we were down to two companies, a pretty fly by night new company that was more expensive and Florida Blue. I think five companies the first year although fewer at the gold level, less last year, and just the two this year.
The first 0 deductible policy was a gold policy at 2200 month with $65 copays and quite a few 50% coinsurance, although more 35% coinsurances. out of pocket max was around 10, I think.
Thanks for the offer, but I will figure out how to get it paid. If I can’t, then I’m one of those folks still without insurance.
I have gone through about half my IRA at this point(Which prevents me from getting subsidized). But have found a little work so that bleeding is stopped for now.
Any more questions? This is not a secret.
.”which I would like to hear the details about, what company, what state, is it gold, silver, bronze, or what, but never seem forthcoming,”
Don’t think I was ever asked. Florida Blue BlueSelect Silver 1443. (Couple)
Interesting thing about that. I have had that same policy for 3 years. The first year it was 1500 and no deductible and 25 copays. Pretty darn good insurance.
The second year it was 1500 a month 6000 (3000 each) deductible, didn’t cover as much, lots of 50% coinsurance, $35 for most doctors,out of pocket max 11 grand maybe, don’t quite remember.
This year 1500 a month 13000 deductible $65 copays, most procedures 50% coinsurance after deductible, 14000 out of pocket max. So after 31,000 I am down to just copays and then close to nothing after 32000.
Over three years, for the same premium, its gone from decent insurance to catastrophic insurance. The same policy number, silver level, I didn’t even have to get new cards.
Since I spend time back and forth between MA and FL I looked at Mass Health and the same policy was 200 a month more.
And in FL this year we were down to two companies, a pretty fly by night new company that was more expensive and Florida Blue. I think five companies the first year although fewer at the gold level, less last year, and just the two this year.
The first 0 deductible policy was a gold policy at 2200 month with $65 copays and quite a few 50% coinsurance, although more 35% coinsurances. out of pocket max was around 10, I think.
Thanks for the offer, but I will figure out how to get it paid. If I can’t, then I’m one of those folks still without insurance.
I have gone through about half my IRA at this point(Which prevents me from getting subsidized). But have found a little work so that bleeding is stopped for now.
Any more questions? This is not a secret.
Ouch.
Ouch.
Ouch.
Thanks, Marty.
Thanks, Marty.
Thanks, Marty.
Yeah man, the ACA is not working for you. Something that works well for everyone would be better.
Yeah man, the ACA is not working for you. Something that works well for everyone would be better.
Yeah man, the ACA is not working for you. Something that works well for everyone would be better.
I guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare?
I guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare?
I guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
So, where did all those insurance companies go?
Back to music.
If it comes out definitively tomorrow morning that Trump and associates/Republicans colluded with a foreign power to influence the election and the Marine Corps Band still plays “Hail To the Chief” on Friday, does that mean that ANY sod can become President with the approval of the Marine Corps, or does it mean that the Dixie Chicks should take over that job for future Inaugurals because they are allotted the freedom to discriminate based on their secular religion, whereas the Marine Corps will apparently follow any unsuitable mountebank’s orders to let her rip?
Further, will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
Back to music.
If it comes out definitively tomorrow morning that Trump and associates/Republicans colluded with a foreign power to influence the election and the Marine Corps Band still plays “Hail To the Chief” on Friday, does that mean that ANY sod can become President with the approval of the Marine Corps, or does it mean that the Dixie Chicks should take over that job for future Inaugurals because they are allotted the freedom to discriminate based on their secular religion, whereas the Marine Corps will apparently follow any unsuitable mountebank’s orders to let her rip?
Further, will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
Back to music.
If it comes out definitively tomorrow morning that Trump and associates/Republicans colluded with a foreign power to influence the election and the Marine Corps Band still plays “Hail To the Chief” on Friday, does that mean that ANY sod can become President with the approval of the Marine Corps, or does it mean that the Dixie Chicks should take over that job for future Inaugurals because they are allotted the freedom to discriminate based on their secular religion, whereas the Marine Corps will apparently follow any unsuitable mountebank’s orders to let her rip?
Further, will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
A company I do work for offers group insurance with a $3000 deductible for a couple, with $1600 per month premiums (company subsidizes $300). So a group plan, with a smaller deductible, higher monthly premiums, and a smaller copay of $35/60.
The ACA mandates that 80% of total premiums pay for health care (so that insurance companies aren’t profiting off of giant premiums). This applies to group plans as well as plans on the exchange.
This isn’t the best group plan in the world, but I’m thinking that perhaps health insurance, even under employer plans, might have been going up quite a bit even in the absence of the ACA, and that plans in the individual market would be basically non-existent?
A company I do work for offers group insurance with a $3000 deductible for a couple, with $1600 per month premiums (company subsidizes $300). So a group plan, with a smaller deductible, higher monthly premiums, and a smaller copay of $35/60.
The ACA mandates that 80% of total premiums pay for health care (so that insurance companies aren’t profiting off of giant premiums). This applies to group plans as well as plans on the exchange.
This isn’t the best group plan in the world, but I’m thinking that perhaps health insurance, even under employer plans, might have been going up quite a bit even in the absence of the ACA, and that plans in the individual market would be basically non-existent?
A company I do work for offers group insurance with a $3000 deductible for a couple, with $1600 per month premiums (company subsidizes $300). So a group plan, with a smaller deductible, higher monthly premiums, and a smaller copay of $35/60.
The ACA mandates that 80% of total premiums pay for health care (so that insurance companies aren’t profiting off of giant premiums). This applies to group plans as well as plans on the exchange.
This isn’t the best group plan in the world, but I’m thinking that perhaps health insurance, even under employer plans, might have been going up quite a bit even in the absence of the ACA, and that plans in the individual market would be basically non-existent?
Had gone to bed and missed Marty’s argument that veracity is proven if people were fired.
Shirley Sherrod
Had gone to bed and missed Marty’s argument that veracity is proven if people were fired.
Shirley Sherrod
Had gone to bed and missed Marty’s argument that veracity is proven if people were fired.
Shirley Sherrod
will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
Far more relevant, suppose a country has paid their prescribed share (I’m thinking Estonia, and maybe the other Baltics)? But Trump doesn’t know. Or just blithely ignores the fact that they did what he demanded — before he demanded it, because they have been doing so for some time, but who cares about those details.
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation.
That’s separate from the question of whether it matters if we have US troops stationed there, who get fired upon.
will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
Far more relevant, suppose a country has paid their prescribed share (I’m thinking Estonia, and maybe the other Baltics)? But Trump doesn’t know. Or just blithely ignores the fact that they did what he demanded — before he demanded it, because they have been doing so for some time, but who cares about those details.
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation.
That’s separate from the question of whether it matters if we have US troops stationed there, who get fired upon.
will the Marine Corps stand down at Trump’s orders to defend a NATO country if Putin invades and the country hasn’t paid Trump’s bounty for U.S. defense?
Far more relevant, suppose a country has paid their prescribed share (I’m thinking Estonia, and maybe the other Baltics)? But Trump doesn’t know. Or just blithely ignores the fact that they did what he demanded — before he demanded it, because they have been doing so for some time, but who cares about those details.
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation.
That’s separate from the question of whether it matters if we have US troops stationed there, who get fired upon.
@Marty:
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Unless you’re a fan of wasteful government spending, you should care. It’s costing NYC $1m per day to provide security for Trump. Either NY taxpayers are gonna get stuck with that bill, or US taxpayers will be reimbursing them, but either way it’s a mountain of money being spent for frivolous reasons.
@Marty:
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Unless you’re a fan of wasteful government spending, you should care. It’s costing NYC $1m per day to provide security for Trump. Either NY taxpayers are gonna get stuck with that bill, or US taxpayers will be reimbursing them, but either way it’s a mountain of money being spent for frivolous reasons.
@Marty:
Do I care that Melania is staying in NY? Not a bit.
Unless you’re a fan of wasteful government spending, you should care. It’s costing NYC $1m per day to provide security for Trump. Either NY taxpayers are gonna get stuck with that bill, or US taxpayers will be reimbursing them, but either way it’s a mountain of money being spent for frivolous reasons.
Marty, while I disagree with you about nearly everything, I’m still glad that you comment here. It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
If in the future you need some help, I’d be glad to pitch in (I’m still employed, and have been fortunate pretty much my entire life, so lending a hand to a friend won’t set me back noticeably.)
Marty, while I disagree with you about nearly everything, I’m still glad that you comment here. It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
If in the future you need some help, I’d be glad to pitch in (I’m still employed, and have been fortunate pretty much my entire life, so lending a hand to a friend won’t set me back noticeably.)
Marty, while I disagree with you about nearly everything, I’m still glad that you comment here. It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
If in the future you need some help, I’d be glad to pitch in (I’m still employed, and have been fortunate pretty much my entire life, so lending a hand to a friend won’t set me back noticeably.)
guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
I would have had SBA group insurance probably, I used to have it at one point. It was not too difficult to qualify for, but I’m sure I would have had to wait a year for my preexisting condition and I have no idea what the premiums would be now.
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
About 25k, so close to the same.
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Yes, chronic RA and previous heart trouble now complicated with COPD. Definitely would have had to find a group to be in.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
I don’t think that would work, see my preferences below.
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
I think truly high risk pools etc. could help. One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
I believe that “rationing” has many faces without actually bending the cost curve on health care itself the insurance rates are not controllable. One of my most specific complaints about the ACA is it abandoned that goal in order to gain industry support. And it’s questionable if it has helped in that area at all.
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
No, a lifetime of hard work and frugality should not be spent on healthcare just because you have it.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
None, ee above
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
I am, and always have been,a firm supporter of expanding Medicare to provide a basic level of healthcare for everyone. Well care, prescription coverage, hospital care. The key is to agree on the basic care levels. As I asked my daughter just this weekend, despite my support for contraception coverage and abortion within my acceptable bounds, is that the hill you want universal coverage to die on?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare? 4 and 6 years.
guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
I would have had SBA group insurance probably, I used to have it at one point. It was not too difficult to qualify for, but I’m sure I would have had to wait a year for my preexisting condition and I have no idea what the premiums would be now.
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
About 25k, so close to the same.
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Yes, chronic RA and previous heart trouble now complicated with COPD. Definitely would have had to find a group to be in.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
I don’t think that would work, see my preferences below.
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
I think truly high risk pools etc. could help. One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
I believe that “rationing” has many faces without actually bending the cost curve on health care itself the insurance rates are not controllable. One of my most specific complaints about the ACA is it abandoned that goal in order to gain industry support. And it’s questionable if it has helped in that area at all.
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
No, a lifetime of hard work and frugality should not be spent on healthcare just because you have it.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
None, ee above
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
I am, and always have been,a firm supporter of expanding Medicare to provide a basic level of healthcare for everyone. Well care, prescription coverage, hospital care. The key is to agree on the basic care levels. As I asked my daughter just this weekend, despite my support for contraception coverage and abortion within my acceptable bounds, is that the hill you want universal coverage to die on?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare? 4 and 6 years.
guess I do have questions, Marty.
What sort of insurance would you have if Obamacare didn’t exist, presuming you were shut out of employer coverage, as you are now?
I would have had SBA group insurance probably, I used to have it at one point. It was not too difficult to qualify for, but I’m sure I would have had to wait a year for my preexisting condition and I have no idea what the premiums would be now.
What would you as a couple spend out-of-pocket in 2016 on medical care if you skipped insurance altogether and paid the Obamacare penalty?
About 25k, so close to the same.
Do you have pre-existing conditions which would disqualify/price you out of insurance coverage if Obamacare didn’t exist, and presuming you would be shut out of employer-based coverage as well? You may have mentioned this in some previous comment section.
Yes, chronic RA and previous heart trouble now complicated with COPD. Definitely would have had to find a group to be in.
Nationally, 88% of Obamacare recipients qualify for the subsidies, which you and your significant other do not. Would you accept a tweak to the program to offer the subsidies to all enrollees, regardless of income or assets?
I don’t think that would work, see my preferences below.
How would insurance costs be contained under any scheme that doesn’t mandate and enforce coverage for all, including the young who face little or no medical costs and those with exorbitant chronic conditions or diseases, given that special pools for these unfortunate people have never been adequately funded at the state levels.
I think truly high risk pools etc. could help. One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Since insurance costs are rising because medical costs are rising, and were before Obamacare was enacted, how does circumventing state insurance commissions and permitting any insurer to sell policies in all 50 states possibly lower costs to whatever you find to be an affordable level without sharply rationing medical care, even if it is YOU that would be doing the rationing, as conservatives/moderate liberals have sought for decades?
I believe that “rationing” has many faces without actually bending the cost curve on health care itself the insurance rates are not controllable. One of my most specific complaints about the ACA is it abandoned that goal in order to gain industry support. And it’s questionable if it has helped in that area at all.
Philosophically, do you adhere to the notion that those above a certain level of income should have to spend down their assets to some low level to qualify for government medical assistance? I’m not talking Warren Buffet, I’m talking the upper middle class in this country.
No, a lifetime of hard work and frugality should not be spent on healthcare just because you have it.
What morality is being enforced by bankrupting those Americans with a decent income or substantial financial assets into a lower standard of living via unsupportable medical debt, even if they can no longer work?
None, ee above
Why NOT Medicare or the Federal Employees Healthcare Program for all Americans from birth?
I am, and always have been,a firm supporter of expanding Medicare to provide a basic level of healthcare for everyone. Well care, prescription coverage, hospital care. The key is to agree on the basic care levels. As I asked my daughter just this weekend, despite my support for contraception coverage and abortion within my acceptable bounds, is that the hill you want universal coverage to die on?
When will you and your significant other qualify for Medicare? 4 and 6 years.
Thanks joel! I appreciate the offer. I have made it through so far, and expect to be ok. But I am grateful for the sentiment.
Thanks joel! I appreciate the offer. I have made it through so far, and expect to be ok. But I am grateful for the sentiment.
Thanks joel! I appreciate the offer. I have made it through so far, and expect to be ok. But I am grateful for the sentiment.
It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
It must. It sometimes is for the people pushing back as well.
You’re a nice guy, joel. And if Marty’s feeling pain, I feel bad for him too. I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all. We’re all in this boat together, and demonizing people’s attempts to figure it out for the common good isn’t helpful.
Florida doesn’t have Medicaid expansion. I wonder whether Marty might have qualified if it did. Or I wonder whether Marty might have supported it, in order to provide health care to people who could have benefited from it. I’m assuming he didn’t, but maybe I’m wrong.
It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
It must. It sometimes is for the people pushing back as well.
You’re a nice guy, joel. And if Marty’s feeling pain, I feel bad for him too. I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all. We’re all in this boat together, and demonizing people’s attempts to figure it out for the common good isn’t helpful.
Florida doesn’t have Medicaid expansion. I wonder whether Marty might have qualified if it did. Or I wonder whether Marty might have supported it, in order to provide health care to people who could have benefited from it. I’m assuming he didn’t, but maybe I’m wrong.
It must often be disagreeable, given the pushback you receive.
It must. It sometimes is for the people pushing back as well.
You’re a nice guy, joel. And if Marty’s feeling pain, I feel bad for him too. I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all. We’re all in this boat together, and demonizing people’s attempts to figure it out for the common good isn’t helpful.
Florida doesn’t have Medicaid expansion. I wonder whether Marty might have qualified if it did. Or I wonder whether Marty might have supported it, in order to provide health care to people who could have benefited from it. I’m assuming he didn’t, but maybe I’m wrong.
sapient: I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all.
Maybe you were typing when Marty’s last post went up (the times are close). But his 7:19 post, next to last paragraph, says explicitly that he favors single payer government health care for all.
sapient: I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all.
Maybe you were typing when Marty’s last post went up (the times are close). But his 7:19 post, next to last paragraph, says explicitly that he favors single payer government health care for all.
sapient: I know other people from what I understand are in Marty’s position, and it sucks. But Marty doesn’t seem to be so interested in health care for all.
Maybe you were typing when Marty’s last post went up (the times are close). But his 7:19 post, next to last paragraph, says explicitly that he favors single payer government health care for all.
he favors single payer government health care for all.
No, I did not see that. It’s kind of at odds with his libertarianism, but I’ll take it.
he favors single payer government health care for all.
No, I did not see that. It’s kind of at odds with his libertarianism, but I’ll take it.
he favors single payer government health care for all.
No, I did not see that. It’s kind of at odds with his libertarianism, but I’ll take it.
Gary Johnson on health care.
Gary Johnson on health care.
Gary Johnson on health care.
People who desire certain outcomes should probably vote for people whose platforms most resemble those outcomes. Just a thought.
People who desire certain outcomes should probably vote for people whose platforms most resemble those outcomes. Just a thought.
People who desire certain outcomes should probably vote for people whose platforms most resemble those outcomes. Just a thought.
From Hillary Clinton’s campaign website:
Marty would have gotten his wish. Sad.
From Hillary Clinton’s campaign website:
Marty would have gotten his wish. Sad.
From Hillary Clinton’s campaign website:
Marty would have gotten his wish. Sad.
“and build on its success ”
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
“and build on its success ”
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
“and build on its success ”
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
Says you who would be without any insurance at all without it. Whatever, Marty. Keep a’smokin’ that good stuff.
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
Says you who would be without any insurance at all without it. Whatever, Marty. Keep a’smokin’ that good stuff.
Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.
Says you who would be without any insurance at all without it. Whatever, Marty. Keep a’smokin’ that good stuff.
joel hanes, I’m going to spend my “GoFundMe” money on people who care about other folks. There are a lot of those people.
Not Marty.
joel hanes, I’m going to spend my “GoFundMe” money on people who care about other folks. There are a lot of those people.
Not Marty.
joel hanes, I’m going to spend my “GoFundMe” money on people who care about other folks. There are a lot of those people.
Not Marty.
Timely factoid interactive map.
Timely factoid interactive map.
Timely factoid interactive map.
One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Unless I’m missing something, that’s the ACA approach.
The difference here is that the feds step in to establish healthcare markets if the states refuse to do so. So that some kind of marjet exists everywhere.
A lot of states refused. For example, FL. I find it hard to blame the feds for that.
I keep coming back to the same point on the healthcare issue. Every other developed country has figured this out. Each in a somewhat different way, but they’ve all gotten it sorted to a degree that we can only dream of.
Just pick one of those and do it. You could pick one out of a hat at random and be better off than we are.
I’m amazed we hold the position in the world that we do, frankly, sometimes I think we are the stupidest freaking country on the face of the earth.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Unless I’m missing something, that’s the ACA approach.
The difference here is that the feds step in to establish healthcare markets if the states refuse to do so. So that some kind of marjet exists everywhere.
A lot of states refused. For example, FL. I find it hard to blame the feds for that.
I keep coming back to the same point on the healthcare issue. Every other developed country has figured this out. Each in a somewhat different way, but they’ve all gotten it sorted to a degree that we can only dream of.
Just pick one of those and do it. You could pick one out of a hat at random and be better off than we are.
I’m amazed we hold the position in the world that we do, frankly, sometimes I think we are the stupidest freaking country on the face of the earth.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
One of the positive parts of Canada’s system is that the basic requirements are national and all implementation is by province.
Unless I’m missing something, that’s the ACA approach.
The difference here is that the feds step in to establish healthcare markets if the states refuse to do so. So that some kind of marjet exists everywhere.
A lot of states refused. For example, FL. I find it hard to blame the feds for that.
I keep coming back to the same point on the healthcare issue. Every other developed country has figured this out. Each in a somewhat different way, but they’ve all gotten it sorted to a degree that we can only dream of.
Just pick one of those and do it. You could pick one out of a hat at random and be better off than we are.
I’m amazed we hold the position in the world that we do, frankly, sometimes I think we are the stupidest freaking country on the face of the earth.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
Too late. Sad.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
Too late. Sad.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
Too late. Sad.
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation….
Like the UN Convention against Torture ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture
… under which their is an absolute obligation to prosecute.
How did that work out ?
Which rather answers your question, I think.
The legal obligation is there, but I suspect the Trumpian response would be ‘so sue me’…
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation….
Like the UN Convention against Torture ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture
… under which their is an absolute obligation to prosecute.
How did that work out ?
Which rather answers your question, I think.
The legal obligation is there, but I suspect the Trumpian response would be ‘so sue me’…
Also, last I looked, treaties were considered to be the law of the land. In fact, to supersede laws passed by Congress, unless they were explicitly abrogated first. So would the military have a legal obligation to act, even absent explicit orders?** Seriously, I’m curious about the legal situation….
Like the UN Convention against Torture ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture
… under which their is an absolute obligation to prosecute.
How did that work out ?
Which rather answers your question, I think.
The legal obligation is there, but I suspect the Trumpian response would be ‘so sue me’…
The “Convention against Torture” requires signatories to take action against those who torture (or order torture) via “judicial, executive or OTHER” means.
So 2nd Amendment actions are completely consistent with the treaty obligations.
The “Convention against Torture” requires signatories to take action against those who torture (or order torture) via “judicial, executive or OTHER” means.
So 2nd Amendment actions are completely consistent with the treaty obligations.
The “Convention against Torture” requires signatories to take action against those who torture (or order torture) via “judicial, executive or OTHER” means.
So 2nd Amendment actions are completely consistent with the treaty obligations.
The United States military is not going to war unless ordered to do so by the President, treaties or no treaties. See, e.g., the power to declare war vested in the Congress and yet…..
Treaty obligations are essentially optional for the United States because “wadda youse gonna do about it?”
The United States military is not going to war unless ordered to do so by the President, treaties or no treaties. See, e.g., the power to declare war vested in the Congress and yet…..
Treaty obligations are essentially optional for the United States because “wadda youse gonna do about it?”
The United States military is not going to war unless ordered to do so by the President, treaties or no treaties. See, e.g., the power to declare war vested in the Congress and yet…..
Treaty obligations are essentially optional for the United States because “wadda youse gonna do about it?”
Man these people are dumb:
They are some of the biggest names in the Republican national security firmament, veterans of past GOP administrations who say, if called upon by President-elect Donald Trump, they stand ready to serve their country again.
But their phones aren’t ringing. Their entreaties to Trump Tower in New York have mostly gone unanswered. In Trump world, these establishment all-stars say they are “PNG” — personae non gratae.
Their transgression was signing one or both of two public “Never Trump” letters during the campaign, declaring they would not vote for Trump and calling his candidacy a danger to the nation.
Serious, WTF did they think was going to happen if he won? Bygones? Did they not mean what they said? They call a notoriously think skinned narcissist into humiliation and revenge a “danger to the nation” and then expect him to hand them a job?
It’s nice that they still want “serve their country” and all, but get a fncking clue.
Man these people are dumb:
They are some of the biggest names in the Republican national security firmament, veterans of past GOP administrations who say, if called upon by President-elect Donald Trump, they stand ready to serve their country again.
But their phones aren’t ringing. Their entreaties to Trump Tower in New York have mostly gone unanswered. In Trump world, these establishment all-stars say they are “PNG” — personae non gratae.
Their transgression was signing one or both of two public “Never Trump” letters during the campaign, declaring they would not vote for Trump and calling his candidacy a danger to the nation.
Serious, WTF did they think was going to happen if he won? Bygones? Did they not mean what they said? They call a notoriously think skinned narcissist into humiliation and revenge a “danger to the nation” and then expect him to hand them a job?
It’s nice that they still want “serve their country” and all, but get a fncking clue.
Man these people are dumb:
They are some of the biggest names in the Republican national security firmament, veterans of past GOP administrations who say, if called upon by President-elect Donald Trump, they stand ready to serve their country again.
But their phones aren’t ringing. Their entreaties to Trump Tower in New York have mostly gone unanswered. In Trump world, these establishment all-stars say they are “PNG” — personae non gratae.
Their transgression was signing one or both of two public “Never Trump” letters during the campaign, declaring they would not vote for Trump and calling his candidacy a danger to the nation.
Serious, WTF did they think was going to happen if he won? Bygones? Did they not mean what they said? They call a notoriously think skinned narcissist into humiliation and revenge a “danger to the nation” and then expect him to hand them a job?
It’s nice that they still want “serve their country” and all, but get a fncking clue.
“Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.”
That’s why it’s rude to stare.
Let me tell you a fairy tale. Once upon a time, there was a big bad wolf ….
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/dying-for-someone-elses-political-faith.html
“Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.”
That’s why it’s rude to stare.
Let me tell you a fairy tale. Once upon a time, there was a big bad wolf ….
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/dying-for-someone-elses-political-faith.html
“Staring from this premise the rest is a fairy tale.”
That’s why it’s rude to stare.
Let me tell you a fairy tale. Once upon a time, there was a big bad wolf ….
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/dying-for-someone-elses-political-faith.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-comments-on-too-strong-dollar-send-shivers-through-stock-market-2017-01-17?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Now, the dollar is too high? He’s not even Precedent yet and his chief economic guru Kudlow (whose unctuous, prattling certain self on CNBC pretty much alone caused me to get rid of my TV seven years ago, after shooting it, like Elvis), who has been preaching a strong dollar since the womb are trying to talk the thing down.
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-06-22/does-china-manipulate-its-currency-like-donald-trump-says
He doesn’t realize that his entire rhetorically-thrown clown cream pie during the campaign has strengthened the dollar against the yuan. And, that he and his fellow conservative economists, not that trump is an economist, har har, have been begging the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to bail out the banks, which in and of itself is a dollar-strengthening ploy, not to mention maligning a fine public servant, Janet Yellen, all the way along, but what would America be without that behavior?
BMW produces far more cars in the U.S., and exports more than it sells here. They need to pull up stakes here and raise both middle fingers to Trump. Jamie Dimon doesn’t need a fucking BMW anyway.
Toyota gets the trump treatment because it’s moving production from Canada to Mexico? What business is that of the United States? It’s maintaining its production here, right?
Hey, I’m all for the notion that American jobs should have stayed here. It wasn’t my fucking idea that they should have been offshored.
It was Nixon’s, and Larry Kudlow’s, and Wilbur Ross’s, and Trump Hotels’ idea. The Clinton’s and Obama helped them, sure. Every CEO and CFO jumped at the chance as shareholders reaped the bounty, including probably me.
Now, these preciouses are falling all over themselves bragging about the jobs they will bring back (most of it is bullshit of one kind or another to bootlick tariff-boy). They could have made that decision back in the day and said, you know, we care about our American workers, because they are our fellow Americans, and we don’t think they should be cast adrift into the horse latitudes of low wages and no benefits.
But they didn’t. You know why? Because they don’t give a shit. They put their money in Barbadoes vaults, because who wouldn’t, given the hard logic of business, while of course preaching to the rest of us the bullshit mantra of patriotism and pride of country.
Fuck off!
When jobs (trade has brought these countries into the second and first world) start disappearing in China, and the third world, and eastern Europe because, once again, the United States had yet another brilliant idea that everyone else must conform to, watch out!
You know what THEY do when folks are out of work, to keep chaos at bay? They put them in uniform and show them how to fire surface to missiles at whomever to keep their minds off blowing up their own countries and THEIR BMW-driving leaders.
And what the hell is the difference between moving jobs from Lancaster PA, to Shanghai, Mexico, and Houston, Texas, anyhoo?
If you see Governor Rick Perry or Xi Jinping in your Massachusetts mill town trolling for jobs because the hometown company won’t have to pay livable wages, extend medical benefits, pay taxes for local infrastructure, or prevent pollution if they move their digs, who do you shoot first?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-comments-on-too-strong-dollar-send-shivers-through-stock-market-2017-01-17?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Now, the dollar is too high? He’s not even Precedent yet and his chief economic guru Kudlow (whose unctuous, prattling certain self on CNBC pretty much alone caused me to get rid of my TV seven years ago, after shooting it, like Elvis), who has been preaching a strong dollar since the womb are trying to talk the thing down.
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-06-22/does-china-manipulate-its-currency-like-donald-trump-says
He doesn’t realize that his entire rhetorically-thrown clown cream pie during the campaign has strengthened the dollar against the yuan. And, that he and his fellow conservative economists, not that trump is an economist, har har, have been begging the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to bail out the banks, which in and of itself is a dollar-strengthening ploy, not to mention maligning a fine public servant, Janet Yellen, all the way along, but what would America be without that behavior?
BMW produces far more cars in the U.S., and exports more than it sells here. They need to pull up stakes here and raise both middle fingers to Trump. Jamie Dimon doesn’t need a fucking BMW anyway.
Toyota gets the trump treatment because it’s moving production from Canada to Mexico? What business is that of the United States? It’s maintaining its production here, right?
Hey, I’m all for the notion that American jobs should have stayed here. It wasn’t my fucking idea that they should have been offshored.
It was Nixon’s, and Larry Kudlow’s, and Wilbur Ross’s, and Trump Hotels’ idea. The Clinton’s and Obama helped them, sure. Every CEO and CFO jumped at the chance as shareholders reaped the bounty, including probably me.
Now, these preciouses are falling all over themselves bragging about the jobs they will bring back (most of it is bullshit of one kind or another to bootlick tariff-boy). They could have made that decision back in the day and said, you know, we care about our American workers, because they are our fellow Americans, and we don’t think they should be cast adrift into the horse latitudes of low wages and no benefits.
But they didn’t. You know why? Because they don’t give a shit. They put their money in Barbadoes vaults, because who wouldn’t, given the hard logic of business, while of course preaching to the rest of us the bullshit mantra of patriotism and pride of country.
Fuck off!
When jobs (trade has brought these countries into the second and first world) start disappearing in China, and the third world, and eastern Europe because, once again, the United States had yet another brilliant idea that everyone else must conform to, watch out!
You know what THEY do when folks are out of work, to keep chaos at bay? They put them in uniform and show them how to fire surface to missiles at whomever to keep their minds off blowing up their own countries and THEIR BMW-driving leaders.
And what the hell is the difference between moving jobs from Lancaster PA, to Shanghai, Mexico, and Houston, Texas, anyhoo?
If you see Governor Rick Perry or Xi Jinping in your Massachusetts mill town trolling for jobs because the hometown company won’t have to pay livable wages, extend medical benefits, pay taxes for local infrastructure, or prevent pollution if they move their digs, who do you shoot first?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-comments-on-too-strong-dollar-send-shivers-through-stock-market-2017-01-17?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Now, the dollar is too high? He’s not even Precedent yet and his chief economic guru Kudlow (whose unctuous, prattling certain self on CNBC pretty much alone caused me to get rid of my TV seven years ago, after shooting it, like Elvis), who has been preaching a strong dollar since the womb are trying to talk the thing down.
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-06-22/does-china-manipulate-its-currency-like-donald-trump-says
He doesn’t realize that his entire rhetorically-thrown clown cream pie during the campaign has strengthened the dollar against the yuan. And, that he and his fellow conservative economists, not that trump is an economist, har har, have been begging the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to bail out the banks, which in and of itself is a dollar-strengthening ploy, not to mention maligning a fine public servant, Janet Yellen, all the way along, but what would America be without that behavior?
BMW produces far more cars in the U.S., and exports more than it sells here. They need to pull up stakes here and raise both middle fingers to Trump. Jamie Dimon doesn’t need a fucking BMW anyway.
Toyota gets the trump treatment because it’s moving production from Canada to Mexico? What business is that of the United States? It’s maintaining its production here, right?
Hey, I’m all for the notion that American jobs should have stayed here. It wasn’t my fucking idea that they should have been offshored.
It was Nixon’s, and Larry Kudlow’s, and Wilbur Ross’s, and Trump Hotels’ idea. The Clinton’s and Obama helped them, sure. Every CEO and CFO jumped at the chance as shareholders reaped the bounty, including probably me.
Now, these preciouses are falling all over themselves bragging about the jobs they will bring back (most of it is bullshit of one kind or another to bootlick tariff-boy). They could have made that decision back in the day and said, you know, we care about our American workers, because they are our fellow Americans, and we don’t think they should be cast adrift into the horse latitudes of low wages and no benefits.
But they didn’t. You know why? Because they don’t give a shit. They put their money in Barbadoes vaults, because who wouldn’t, given the hard logic of business, while of course preaching to the rest of us the bullshit mantra of patriotism and pride of country.
Fuck off!
When jobs (trade has brought these countries into the second and first world) start disappearing in China, and the third world, and eastern Europe because, once again, the United States had yet another brilliant idea that everyone else must conform to, watch out!
You know what THEY do when folks are out of work, to keep chaos at bay? They put them in uniform and show them how to fire surface to missiles at whomever to keep their minds off blowing up their own countries and THEIR BMW-driving leaders.
And what the hell is the difference between moving jobs from Lancaster PA, to Shanghai, Mexico, and Houston, Texas, anyhoo?
If you see Governor Rick Perry or Xi Jinping in your Massachusetts mill town trolling for jobs because the hometown company won’t have to pay livable wages, extend medical benefits, pay taxes for local infrastructure, or prevent pollution if they move their digs, who do you shoot first?
ugh, that’s why most of the political appointees, if in fact the slots are filled, in the bureaucracy (not a dirty word, much as the usual suspects want it to be so) are going to be filled by the cow bell players in local cover bands.
Besides, it fits the narrative that has been rearing up like a tidal wave just offshore, doesn’t it? All expertise is to be doubted. All experience vanquished. All norms cast away. America, the entire shebang, is about to remove it’s troublesome teeth by tying them to a doorknob across the room and then slamming the door, because every profession is a conspiracy against the laity.
No Novacaine. If pain was good enough for Jesus, then waterboarding must work and screw the experts.
America is a stupid pet trick. By all means, try this at home.
Yeoman everything.
If the current mood prevailed at Kitty Hawk, onlookers would tell the Wright Brothers to go fuck themselves, the know-it-alls, and adopt these guy’s technologies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw_C_sbfyx8
That said, of course, the professionals have fucked things up to.
Could it be because they ARE Americans. I mean, you notice when others fuck up, Americans are quick to generalize from the particular and blame it on EVERYONE else. When lots of Americans fuck up, it’s shrugged off as, well, one guy’s fault.
That’s got nothing to do with me. Must have the wrong incentives. Now, connect a guy’s testicles to a car battery, and we might get somewhere!
Take the Middle East, for example. Please.
ugh, that’s why most of the political appointees, if in fact the slots are filled, in the bureaucracy (not a dirty word, much as the usual suspects want it to be so) are going to be filled by the cow bell players in local cover bands.
Besides, it fits the narrative that has been rearing up like a tidal wave just offshore, doesn’t it? All expertise is to be doubted. All experience vanquished. All norms cast away. America, the entire shebang, is about to remove it’s troublesome teeth by tying them to a doorknob across the room and then slamming the door, because every profession is a conspiracy against the laity.
No Novacaine. If pain was good enough for Jesus, then waterboarding must work and screw the experts.
America is a stupid pet trick. By all means, try this at home.
Yeoman everything.
If the current mood prevailed at Kitty Hawk, onlookers would tell the Wright Brothers to go fuck themselves, the know-it-alls, and adopt these guy’s technologies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw_C_sbfyx8
That said, of course, the professionals have fucked things up to.
Could it be because they ARE Americans. I mean, you notice when others fuck up, Americans are quick to generalize from the particular and blame it on EVERYONE else. When lots of Americans fuck up, it’s shrugged off as, well, one guy’s fault.
That’s got nothing to do with me. Must have the wrong incentives. Now, connect a guy’s testicles to a car battery, and we might get somewhere!
Take the Middle East, for example. Please.
ugh, that’s why most of the political appointees, if in fact the slots are filled, in the bureaucracy (not a dirty word, much as the usual suspects want it to be so) are going to be filled by the cow bell players in local cover bands.
Besides, it fits the narrative that has been rearing up like a tidal wave just offshore, doesn’t it? All expertise is to be doubted. All experience vanquished. All norms cast away. America, the entire shebang, is about to remove it’s troublesome teeth by tying them to a doorknob across the room and then slamming the door, because every profession is a conspiracy against the laity.
No Novacaine. If pain was good enough for Jesus, then waterboarding must work and screw the experts.
America is a stupid pet trick. By all means, try this at home.
Yeoman everything.
If the current mood prevailed at Kitty Hawk, onlookers would tell the Wright Brothers to go fuck themselves, the know-it-alls, and adopt these guy’s technologies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw_C_sbfyx8
That said, of course, the professionals have fucked things up to.
Could it be because they ARE Americans. I mean, you notice when others fuck up, Americans are quick to generalize from the particular and blame it on EVERYONE else. When lots of Americans fuck up, it’s shrugged off as, well, one guy’s fault.
That’s got nothing to do with me. Must have the wrong incentives. Now, connect a guy’s testicles to a car battery, and we might get somewhere!
Take the Middle East, for example. Please.
It’s like she’s been living in a Funk and Wagnell’s mayonnaise jar under Ed McMahon’s porch these last eight years:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cathy-mcmorris-rodgers-heckled-heath-care
Kumbaya, kumbaya, yay, thru the valley of death we shall kumbaya. What a Republican dick!
You know the difference between these politically correct protestors and the conservative ones we’ve seen at public meetings these last eight years.
The former haven’t brought guns to the O.K. Town Meeting.
Probably a big mistake.
It’s like she’s been living in a Funk and Wagnell’s mayonnaise jar under Ed McMahon’s porch these last eight years:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cathy-mcmorris-rodgers-heckled-heath-care
Kumbaya, kumbaya, yay, thru the valley of death we shall kumbaya. What a Republican dick!
You know the difference between these politically correct protestors and the conservative ones we’ve seen at public meetings these last eight years.
The former haven’t brought guns to the O.K. Town Meeting.
Probably a big mistake.
It’s like she’s been living in a Funk and Wagnell’s mayonnaise jar under Ed McMahon’s porch these last eight years:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cathy-mcmorris-rodgers-heckled-heath-care
Kumbaya, kumbaya, yay, thru the valley of death we shall kumbaya. What a Republican dick!
You know the difference between these politically correct protestors and the conservative ones we’ve seen at public meetings these last eight years.
The former haven’t brought guns to the O.K. Town Meeting.
Probably a big mistake.
Now, the dollar is too high?
There go the vacation plans.
She made the ambiguous promise on Friday that “No one who has coverage because of Obamacare today, will lose that coverage the day it’s repealed — we’re committed to a smooth and stable transition for those currently receiving care.”
Note the phrase “the day it’s repealed”.
The basic problem is that health care costs more than people can afford to pay for it. Not everyone, of course, just the folks who actually need it. And you can’t make enough money insuring people for health care to make it attractive enough for big money folks. At least, not without limiting coverage for people who are actually likely to get sick to the point where folks have to choose between bankruptcy and dying.
We dance around it chanting various forms of the obligatory market-driven incantations. But basically you can’t make enough money selling health insurance if (a) you insure the folks who are actually likely to get sick without (b) requiring them to assume risk that is probably going to bankrupt them.
Tax credits don’t help if you don’t make enough to pay taxes. What’s the maximum credit on $0.00?
HSA’s don’t help if you have no surplus income to sock away. Take a look at the rate of personal savings in the US right now.
“Informed consumer choices” are BS when you’re talking about a domain that takes 10 years of specialized post-graduate study to master.
The straight dope is that we either have to treat it as a necessary public good – not an inalienable right, just something that is needed if we are going to function as a society, like schools, potable water, and electricity – or else sign up for millions of people living lives of unnecessary suffering and premature death.
Those are the choices.
Nobody wants to be seen as a meanie, so we’re heading down the path of option (2) while trying to pretend we’re not.
Net/net, the (R)’s have the votes, if they can find any way to do it without finding their heads on pikes they’re going to gut the public contribution to health insurance, and a lot of people are going to get sick and die.
There is no market-driven solution. There isn’t enough money to be made to compete with other places folks can park their dollars.
I’d say it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee, but that was actually about 30 years ago.
Now, the dollar is too high?
There go the vacation plans.
She made the ambiguous promise on Friday that “No one who has coverage because of Obamacare today, will lose that coverage the day it’s repealed — we’re committed to a smooth and stable transition for those currently receiving care.”
Note the phrase “the day it’s repealed”.
The basic problem is that health care costs more than people can afford to pay for it. Not everyone, of course, just the folks who actually need it. And you can’t make enough money insuring people for health care to make it attractive enough for big money folks. At least, not without limiting coverage for people who are actually likely to get sick to the point where folks have to choose between bankruptcy and dying.
We dance around it chanting various forms of the obligatory market-driven incantations. But basically you can’t make enough money selling health insurance if (a) you insure the folks who are actually likely to get sick without (b) requiring them to assume risk that is probably going to bankrupt them.
Tax credits don’t help if you don’t make enough to pay taxes. What’s the maximum credit on $0.00?
HSA’s don’t help if you have no surplus income to sock away. Take a look at the rate of personal savings in the US right now.
“Informed consumer choices” are BS when you’re talking about a domain that takes 10 years of specialized post-graduate study to master.
The straight dope is that we either have to treat it as a necessary public good – not an inalienable right, just something that is needed if we are going to function as a society, like schools, potable water, and electricity – or else sign up for millions of people living lives of unnecessary suffering and premature death.
Those are the choices.
Nobody wants to be seen as a meanie, so we’re heading down the path of option (2) while trying to pretend we’re not.
Net/net, the (R)’s have the votes, if they can find any way to do it without finding their heads on pikes they’re going to gut the public contribution to health insurance, and a lot of people are going to get sick and die.
There is no market-driven solution. There isn’t enough money to be made to compete with other places folks can park their dollars.
I’d say it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee, but that was actually about 30 years ago.
Now, the dollar is too high?
There go the vacation plans.
She made the ambiguous promise on Friday that “No one who has coverage because of Obamacare today, will lose that coverage the day it’s repealed — we’re committed to a smooth and stable transition for those currently receiving care.”
Note the phrase “the day it’s repealed”.
The basic problem is that health care costs more than people can afford to pay for it. Not everyone, of course, just the folks who actually need it. And you can’t make enough money insuring people for health care to make it attractive enough for big money folks. At least, not without limiting coverage for people who are actually likely to get sick to the point where folks have to choose between bankruptcy and dying.
We dance around it chanting various forms of the obligatory market-driven incantations. But basically you can’t make enough money selling health insurance if (a) you insure the folks who are actually likely to get sick without (b) requiring them to assume risk that is probably going to bankrupt them.
Tax credits don’t help if you don’t make enough to pay taxes. What’s the maximum credit on $0.00?
HSA’s don’t help if you have no surplus income to sock away. Take a look at the rate of personal savings in the US right now.
“Informed consumer choices” are BS when you’re talking about a domain that takes 10 years of specialized post-graduate study to master.
The straight dope is that we either have to treat it as a necessary public good – not an inalienable right, just something that is needed if we are going to function as a society, like schools, potable water, and electricity – or else sign up for millions of people living lives of unnecessary suffering and premature death.
Those are the choices.
Nobody wants to be seen as a meanie, so we’re heading down the path of option (2) while trying to pretend we’re not.
Net/net, the (R)’s have the votes, if they can find any way to do it without finding their heads on pikes they’re going to gut the public contribution to health insurance, and a lot of people are going to get sick and die.
There is no market-driven solution. There isn’t enough money to be made to compete with other places folks can park their dollars.
I’d say it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee, but that was actually about 30 years ago.
By the way, Marty, thanks for your answers to my questions. See my 11:58 am yesterday, if you missed it.
By the way, Marty, thanks for your answers to my questions. See my 11:58 am yesterday, if you missed it.
By the way, Marty, thanks for your answers to my questions. See my 11:58 am yesterday, if you missed it.
Given the geopolitical news coming out of Russia and China overnight, I suspect any of my tax money on infrastructure is going to go solely toward building a gigantic bomb shelter under Trump Tower in Manhattan, even if he doesn’t own the land, to house among other things, the toupees of the 1%, so they live to coif another day after half-life radiation degradation.
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
Given the geopolitical news coming out of Russia and China overnight, I suspect any of my tax money on infrastructure is going to go solely toward building a gigantic bomb shelter under Trump Tower in Manhattan, even if he doesn’t own the land, to house among other things, the toupees of the 1%, so they live to coif another day after half-life radiation degradation.
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
Given the geopolitical news coming out of Russia and China overnight, I suspect any of my tax money on infrastructure is going to go solely toward building a gigantic bomb shelter under Trump Tower in Manhattan, even if he doesn’t own the land, to house among other things, the toupees of the 1%, so they live to coif another day after half-life radiation degradation.
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
Along the lines of Count’s 10:01am, this.
Thucydides, in his commentary regarding the deterioration (and ultimate collapse) of Athenian democracy, hits too close to home: “Men now did just what they pleased, coolly venturing on what they had formerly done only in a corner” — this, more than anything, seems like the hallmark of the emerging Trump regime, replete with norm-trampling transgressions. We are in the hands of an ignorant, amoral, petulant authoritarian who has been handed the keys to the most powerful office on the country, and the world.
Whee, as they say.
Along the lines of Count’s 10:01am, this.
Thucydides, in his commentary regarding the deterioration (and ultimate collapse) of Athenian democracy, hits too close to home: “Men now did just what they pleased, coolly venturing on what they had formerly done only in a corner” — this, more than anything, seems like the hallmark of the emerging Trump regime, replete with norm-trampling transgressions. We are in the hands of an ignorant, amoral, petulant authoritarian who has been handed the keys to the most powerful office on the country, and the world.
Whee, as they say.
Along the lines of Count’s 10:01am, this.
Thucydides, in his commentary regarding the deterioration (and ultimate collapse) of Athenian democracy, hits too close to home: “Men now did just what they pleased, coolly venturing on what they had formerly done only in a corner” — this, more than anything, seems like the hallmark of the emerging Trump regime, replete with norm-trampling transgressions. We are in the hands of an ignorant, amoral, petulant authoritarian who has been handed the keys to the most powerful office on the country, and the world.
Whee, as they say.
more:
Bitterness about the status quo, then, and demands for change, are thus more than understandable. But in the words of Garrison Keillor, “Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity.” And the argument that many were voting for “change for change’s sake” is, in a word, idiotic. It is also disingenuous in whole cloth. Voting for Louis Farrakhan for President would also have represented a radical break with the past. If the goal is to bring about radical change, regardless of nominal policy content, the sort of knock-the-table-over housecleaning that only an outsider can deliver, well then Farrakhan is your man (and as plausible, and as qualified). But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
more:
Bitterness about the status quo, then, and demands for change, are thus more than understandable. But in the words of Garrison Keillor, “Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity.” And the argument that many were voting for “change for change’s sake” is, in a word, idiotic. It is also disingenuous in whole cloth. Voting for Louis Farrakhan for President would also have represented a radical break with the past. If the goal is to bring about radical change, regardless of nominal policy content, the sort of knock-the-table-over housecleaning that only an outsider can deliver, well then Farrakhan is your man (and as plausible, and as qualified). But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
more:
Bitterness about the status quo, then, and demands for change, are thus more than understandable. But in the words of Garrison Keillor, “Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity.” And the argument that many were voting for “change for change’s sake” is, in a word, idiotic. It is also disingenuous in whole cloth. Voting for Louis Farrakhan for President would also have represented a radical break with the past. If the goal is to bring about radical change, regardless of nominal policy content, the sort of knock-the-table-over housecleaning that only an outsider can deliver, well then Farrakhan is your man (and as plausible, and as qualified). But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
But how many Trump supporters would have pulled the lever for Farrakhan? Right.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
So, an optimist? Drink up!
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
So, an optimist? Drink up!
A bartender I know, and bartenders have their fingers on all pulses, looked at me across the bar the other night and said, without any prompting from me, “After Friday, I give us three weeks.”
So, an optimist? Drink up!
I’d say russell’s 10:55 is about the best executive summary of the health-care situation I’ve seen yet. The people who said the public option would end up being the same thing as single-payer because no one would be able to compete were right. My response to them was, and still is, “So?”
I’d say russell’s 10:55 is about the best executive summary of the health-care situation I’ve seen yet. The people who said the public option would end up being the same thing as single-payer because no one would be able to compete were right. My response to them was, and still is, “So?”
I’d say russell’s 10:55 is about the best executive summary of the health-care situation I’ve seen yet. The people who said the public option would end up being the same thing as single-payer because no one would be able to compete were right. My response to them was, and still is, “So?”
As the 20th gets closer, I keep hoping for 3 Jim Jeffords-like patriots to at least take away the Senate rubber stamp. Out of 52, there has to be 3 that see a clear and present danger that is worth sacrificing a career. Especially the old ones. Become independents, caucus with the Democrats, and you can still vote mostly conservative. But you have taken away some of the keys.
It might even be beneficial to the Republican Party to be able to share some of the governing blame with a Democratic Senate.
As the 20th gets closer, I keep hoping for 3 Jim Jeffords-like patriots to at least take away the Senate rubber stamp. Out of 52, there has to be 3 that see a clear and present danger that is worth sacrificing a career. Especially the old ones. Become independents, caucus with the Democrats, and you can still vote mostly conservative. But you have taken away some of the keys.
It might even be beneficial to the Republican Party to be able to share some of the governing blame with a Democratic Senate.
As the 20th gets closer, I keep hoping for 3 Jim Jeffords-like patriots to at least take away the Senate rubber stamp. Out of 52, there has to be 3 that see a clear and present danger that is worth sacrificing a career. Especially the old ones. Become independents, caucus with the Democrats, and you can still vote mostly conservative. But you have taken away some of the keys.
It might even be beneficial to the Republican Party to be able to share some of the governing blame with a Democratic Senate.
Ugh, that is an excellent piece.
Ugh, that is an excellent piece.
Ugh, that is an excellent piece.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
OTOH, there are those here who decried as traitors anyone unwilling to blindly support a widely disliked “more status quo than the status quo” candidate who didn’t really wanna campaign. They, too, retain plausible deniability.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
OTOH, there are those here who decried as traitors anyone unwilling to blindly support a widely disliked “more status quo than the status quo” candidate who didn’t really wanna campaign. They, too, retain plausible deniability.
Fortunately, nobody here voted for Trump. At least, they’ve retained plausible deniability.
OTOH, there are those here who decried as traitors anyone unwilling to blindly support a widely disliked “more status quo than the status quo” candidate who didn’t really wanna campaign. They, too, retain plausible deniability.
NV: [citation required]
NV: [citation required]
NV: [citation required]
From Ugh’s link (discussing something that’s been confounding me throughout Trump’s ascendancy):
From Ugh’s link (discussing something that’s been confounding me throughout Trump’s ascendancy):
From Ugh’s link (discussing something that’s been confounding me throughout Trump’s ascendancy):
Ugh, seconding GftNC’s comment on Jonathan Kirshner’s piece. Thanks for posting it.
We cannot recognize Trump as President.
Ugh, seconding GftNC’s comment on Jonathan Kirshner’s piece. Thanks for posting it.
We cannot recognize Trump as President.
Ugh, seconding GftNC’s comment on Jonathan Kirshner’s piece. Thanks for posting it.
We cannot recognize Trump as President.
Snarki: LMGTFY
(I.e., someone who is totally not still dwelling on the election; they’ve “moved on”, so why can’t we?)
Snarki: LMGTFY
(I.e., someone who is totally not still dwelling on the election; they’ve “moved on”, so why can’t we?)
Snarki: LMGTFY
(I.e., someone who is totally not still dwelling on the election; they’ve “moved on”, so why can’t we?)
As a nation we’ve never faced a test of our national character as daunting as that, but we have faced plenty worse than what we’ve got today, and until now had never thrown in our lot with the first demagogue that came along.
But we’ve come close. In an economic situation similar to today (the Gilded Age), William Jennings Bryan ran very strong Presidential campaigns, especially in 1896.
Interestingly, he won in many of the same places where Trump won. The reasons he didn’t win may include changes in the population distribution across the states.
As a nation we’ve never faced a test of our national character as daunting as that, but we have faced plenty worse than what we’ve got today, and until now had never thrown in our lot with the first demagogue that came along.
But we’ve come close. In an economic situation similar to today (the Gilded Age), William Jennings Bryan ran very strong Presidential campaigns, especially in 1896.
Interestingly, he won in many of the same places where Trump won. The reasons he didn’t win may include changes in the population distribution across the states.
As a nation we’ve never faced a test of our national character as daunting as that, but we have faced plenty worse than what we’ve got today, and until now had never thrown in our lot with the first demagogue that came along.
But we’ve come close. In an economic situation similar to today (the Gilded Age), William Jennings Bryan ran very strong Presidential campaigns, especially in 1896.
Interestingly, he won in many of the same places where Trump won. The reasons he didn’t win may include changes in the population distribution across the states.
That was a great read, Ugh. Thanks.
That was a great read, Ugh. Thanks.
That was a great read, Ugh. Thanks.
(Heh, botched the query string, but Google figured it out. Probably because I’m almost certainly using archaic search syntax, d’oh…)
(Heh, botched the query string, but Google figured it out. Probably because I’m almost certainly using archaic search syntax, d’oh…)
(Heh, botched the query string, but Google figured it out. Probably because I’m almost certainly using archaic search syntax, d’oh…)
William Jennings Bryan and Donald Trump are not in the same category, wj.
William Jennings Bryan and Donald Trump are not in the same category, wj.
William Jennings Bryan and Donald Trump are not in the same category, wj.
True. But Bryan was the great populist demagogue of the day, demonizing the wealthy and promising prosperity for everyone. In short, Trump’s offering.
Which was all I was saying, in response to the quote hsh offered. We may not have got with a demagogue in the past. But we have come close.
True. But Bryan was the great populist demagogue of the day, demonizing the wealthy and promising prosperity for everyone. In short, Trump’s offering.
Which was all I was saying, in response to the quote hsh offered. We may not have got with a demagogue in the past. But we have come close.
True. But Bryan was the great populist demagogue of the day, demonizing the wealthy and promising prosperity for everyone. In short, Trump’s offering.
Which was all I was saying, in response to the quote hsh offered. We may not have got with a demagogue in the past. But we have come close.
wj,
You need to look up the definition of “demagogue”, and then get back to me and tell me how arguments for free silver and reining in the railroad robber barons was “irrational” or an “appeal to ignorance and prejudice”.
wj,
You need to look up the definition of “demagogue”, and then get back to me and tell me how arguments for free silver and reining in the railroad robber barons was “irrational” or an “appeal to ignorance and prejudice”.
wj,
You need to look up the definition of “demagogue”, and then get back to me and tell me how arguments for free silver and reining in the railroad robber barons was “irrational” or an “appeal to ignorance and prejudice”.
Bobby, there’s nothing to say that arguments for valid positions cannot be made by a demagogue. (Although I’m not totally persuaded that free silver was a rational one.)
Trump, for example, is a demagogue — agreed? But the argument that he makes for increased infrastructure spending being needed are true even so.
Bobby, there’s nothing to say that arguments for valid positions cannot be made by a demagogue. (Although I’m not totally persuaded that free silver was a rational one.)
Trump, for example, is a demagogue — agreed? But the argument that he makes for increased infrastructure spending being needed are true even so.
Bobby, there’s nothing to say that arguments for valid positions cannot be made by a demagogue. (Although I’m not totally persuaded that free silver was a rational one.)
Trump, for example, is a demagogue — agreed? But the argument that he makes for increased infrastructure spending being needed are true even so.
For those looking for ideas for what to constructively do next, some offerings from Jonathan Capehart.
For those looking for ideas for what to constructively do next, some offerings from Jonathan Capehart.
For those looking for ideas for what to constructively do next, some offerings from Jonathan Capehart.
To return briefly to the OP:
Why people might not want to work for the Trumps.
To return briefly to the OP:
Why people might not want to work for the Trumps.
To return briefly to the OP:
Why people might not want to work for the Trumps.
On presidential inaugurations, there are words, some of which may not be the right ones. (These may be corrected by time you hit the link, but here’s how I read them – italics mine):
and
Way to go, Newsweek.
On presidential inaugurations, there are words, some of which may not be the right ones. (These may be corrected by time you hit the link, but here’s how I read them – italics mine):
and
Way to go, Newsweek.
On presidential inaugurations, there are words, some of which may not be the right ones. (These may be corrected by time you hit the link, but here’s how I read them – italics mine):
and
Way to go, Newsweek.
Obama has commuted Bradley Manning’s sentence!
Obama has commuted Bradley Manning’s sentence!
Obama has commuted Bradley Manning’s sentence!
Or as I should have said, Chelsea Manning. Apparently, the snake Assange said if she is released he agrees to extradition to the US. but I’ll believe that when I see it…
Or as I should have said, Chelsea Manning. Apparently, the snake Assange said if she is released he agrees to extradition to the US. but I’ll believe that when I see it…
Or as I should have said, Chelsea Manning. Apparently, the snake Assange said if she is released he agrees to extradition to the US. but I’ll believe that when I see it…
but I’ll believe that when I see it…
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump.
but I’ll believe that when I see it…
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump.
but I’ll believe that when I see it…
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes.
Although I now see that the commutation won’t take effect until May. Wonder if Trump will try to rescind it.
Although I now see that the commutation won’t take effect until May. Wonder if Trump will try to rescind it.
Although I now see that the commutation won’t take effect until May. Wonder if Trump will try to rescind it.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes
Ugh, the whole reason Assange has always given for being holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy is that if he goes to Sweden to face the rape charges, or even ventures out into London, he will be extradited to the US. This rationale has generally been completely rejected by lawyers who know anything about the charges he faces.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes
Ugh, the whole reason Assange has always given for being holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy is that if he goes to Sweden to face the rape charges, or even ventures out into London, he will be extradited to the US. This rationale has generally been completely rejected by lawyers who know anything about the charges he faces.
AFAIK Assange there is no request from the US to extradite Assange. Sweden, yes
Ugh, the whole reason Assange has always given for being holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy is that if he goes to Sweden to face the rape charges, or even ventures out into London, he will be extradited to the US. This rationale has generally been completely rejected by lawyers who know anything about the charges he faces.
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump
Good point, sapient. But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump
Good point, sapient. But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Why not? I’m sure he’ll be perfectly comfortable with his BFF Trump
Good point, sapient. But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Right. No charges even filed in the US AFAIK. That wouldn’t preclude future US charges of course, although I’m not sure under what theory – assuming all he’s done is publish information given to him.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Right. No charges even filed in the US AFAIK. That wouldn’t preclude future US charges of course, although I’m not sure under what theory – assuming all he’s done is publish information given to him.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Right. No charges even filed in the US AFAIK. That wouldn’t preclude future US charges of course, although I’m not sure under what theory – assuming all he’s done is publish information given to him.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Re: HSH’s 4:58 – Reliance on spell-check instead of human editors was a depressing development (many years entrenched by now), but reliance on auto-complete to write your articles for you is a new low. (Well, not totally new, just newer than spell-check.)
Turn the fNcking auto-complete off, for crying out loud! If you don’t want to actually write the words yourself, don’t be a writer!
Also, get off of my lawn.
Re: HSH’s 4:58 – Reliance on spell-check instead of human editors was a depressing development (many years entrenched by now), but reliance on auto-complete to write your articles for you is a new low. (Well, not totally new, just newer than spell-check.)
Turn the fNcking auto-complete off, for crying out loud! If you don’t want to actually write the words yourself, don’t be a writer!
Also, get off of my lawn.
Re: HSH’s 4:58 – Reliance on spell-check instead of human editors was a depressing development (many years entrenched by now), but reliance on auto-complete to write your articles for you is a new low. (Well, not totally new, just newer than spell-check.)
Turn the fNcking auto-complete off, for crying out loud! If you don’t want to actually write the words yourself, don’t be a writer!
Also, get off of my lawn.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Since Assange has clearly been in league with Trump and Putin, I don’t really understand the source of your worry. I’m sure that they would be happy for him to continue to conspire with them. Or maybe he has blackmail on them, who knows. In any case, I think that Assange will be in the clear (in the U.S. at least) for awhile. There are rape allegations still pending though, although if he hangs out for awhile longer, he’ll beat the statute of limitations, apparently. Nice guy, I’m sure.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Since Assange has clearly been in league with Trump and Putin, I don’t really understand the source of your worry. I’m sure that they would be happy for him to continue to conspire with them. Or maybe he has blackmail on them, who knows. In any case, I think that Assange will be in the clear (in the U.S. at least) for awhile. There are rape allegations still pending though, although if he hangs out for awhile longer, he’ll beat the statute of limitations, apparently. Nice guy, I’m sure.
I can’t say, however, that his fear of future US charges and subsequent extradition is entirely unreasonable, especially starting noon Friday.
Since Assange has clearly been in league with Trump and Putin, I don’t really understand the source of your worry. I’m sure that they would be happy for him to continue to conspire with them. Or maybe he has blackmail on them, who knows. In any case, I think that Assange will be in the clear (in the U.S. at least) for awhile. There are rape allegations still pending though, although if he hangs out for awhile longer, he’ll beat the statute of limitations, apparently. Nice guy, I’m sure.
But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Not seeing a huge wedge.
But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Not seeing a huge wedge.
But it would certainly be another wedge issue between Trump and regular Republicans in Congress.
Not seeing a huge wedge.
sapient – that’s fair. I guess I was thinking there was a fair bit of the military and intelligence community gunning for Assange, and that Trump or Sessions may be likely to assent to their pressure.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
sapient – that’s fair. I guess I was thinking there was a fair bit of the military and intelligence community gunning for Assange, and that Trump or Sessions may be likely to assent to their pressure.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
sapient – that’s fair. I guess I was thinking there was a fair bit of the military and intelligence community gunning for Assange, and that Trump or Sessions may be likely to assent to their pressure.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
His track record is pretty consistent. Putin asks. Assange answers.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
His track record is pretty consistent. Putin asks. Assange answers.
And of course not telling what Assange will leak next.
His track record is pretty consistent. Putin asks. Assange answers.
Trump has a reputation for stiffing those who work for him and are owed money. But apparently he is casual about other debts as well.
See this on the fact that the only cabinet post unfilled is Secretary of Agriculture. Great way to show gratitude to the rural voters who were so ardent in his behalf.
Apparently there is starting to be some serious unhappiness in agricultural circles at their apparently low priority with the new administration. Not least because of rumors that the administration is looking for a woman or Hispanic, in order to add some diversity to the cabinet — apparently being put into the service of political correctness isn’t going down well.
Trump has a reputation for stiffing those who work for him and are owed money. But apparently he is casual about other debts as well.
See this on the fact that the only cabinet post unfilled is Secretary of Agriculture. Great way to show gratitude to the rural voters who were so ardent in his behalf.
Apparently there is starting to be some serious unhappiness in agricultural circles at their apparently low priority with the new administration. Not least because of rumors that the administration is looking for a woman or Hispanic, in order to add some diversity to the cabinet — apparently being put into the service of political correctness isn’t going down well.
Trump has a reputation for stiffing those who work for him and are owed money. But apparently he is casual about other debts as well.
See this on the fact that the only cabinet post unfilled is Secretary of Agriculture. Great way to show gratitude to the rural voters who were so ardent in his behalf.
Apparently there is starting to be some serious unhappiness in agricultural circles at their apparently low priority with the new administration. Not least because of rumors that the administration is looking for a woman or Hispanic, in order to add some diversity to the cabinet — apparently being put into the service of political correctness isn’t going down well.
Thanks wj. Hope springs eternal that maybe Trump doesn’t know how to scam all of the people all of the time. Sadly, once you’re a dictator, it gets a lot easier.
By the way, I just had a look at NV’s incredibly cute retrospective google search of my comments. I totally cop to having called people names. I stand by all of it, although I’m told that I’ll be banned if I continue to accuse some of the people here in the “community” of being fascist collaborators and traitors and tools. So I won’t do it anymore (will try not to). But I’m glad we’re squared away on what I think of some of y’all.
Especially people who refused to vote for someone who was “widely disliked” (are you still in high school?) when the alternative was a catastrophic world-ending fascist. Excellent judgment.
Thanks wj. Hope springs eternal that maybe Trump doesn’t know how to scam all of the people all of the time. Sadly, once you’re a dictator, it gets a lot easier.
By the way, I just had a look at NV’s incredibly cute retrospective google search of my comments. I totally cop to having called people names. I stand by all of it, although I’m told that I’ll be banned if I continue to accuse some of the people here in the “community” of being fascist collaborators and traitors and tools. So I won’t do it anymore (will try not to). But I’m glad we’re squared away on what I think of some of y’all.
Especially people who refused to vote for someone who was “widely disliked” (are you still in high school?) when the alternative was a catastrophic world-ending fascist. Excellent judgment.
Thanks wj. Hope springs eternal that maybe Trump doesn’t know how to scam all of the people all of the time. Sadly, once you’re a dictator, it gets a lot easier.
By the way, I just had a look at NV’s incredibly cute retrospective google search of my comments. I totally cop to having called people names. I stand by all of it, although I’m told that I’ll be banned if I continue to accuse some of the people here in the “community” of being fascist collaborators and traitors and tools. So I won’t do it anymore (will try not to). But I’m glad we’re squared away on what I think of some of y’all.
Especially people who refused to vote for someone who was “widely disliked” (are you still in high school?) when the alternative was a catastrophic world-ending fascist. Excellent judgment.
http://pagesix.com/2017/01/13/drug-testing-floated-for-white-house-press-corps/
I look forward to this.
Will this be before the lamestream media has to eat out Sarah Palin and blow Steve Bannon, or after that? National Inquiring Minds would like to know.
Fuck the Republican Party.
Fuck America.
Civil War is here.
Hide.
http://pagesix.com/2017/01/13/drug-testing-floated-for-white-house-press-corps/
I look forward to this.
Will this be before the lamestream media has to eat out Sarah Palin and blow Steve Bannon, or after that? National Inquiring Minds would like to know.
Fuck the Republican Party.
Fuck America.
Civil War is here.
Hide.
http://pagesix.com/2017/01/13/drug-testing-floated-for-white-house-press-corps/
I look forward to this.
Will this be before the lamestream media has to eat out Sarah Palin and blow Steve Bannon, or after that? National Inquiring Minds would like to know.
Fuck the Republican Party.
Fuck America.
Civil War is here.
Hide.
OT:
anent the mascot
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PjE6bssKlUA/WG165NH0OhI/AAAAAAAA_Pw/Ty5UOpiwnlIrcVgfsx6YfQTISI0ln1YDgCLcB/s1600/catintree_reddit.jpeg
OT:
anent the mascot
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PjE6bssKlUA/WG165NH0OhI/AAAAAAAA_Pw/Ty5UOpiwnlIrcVgfsx6YfQTISI0ln1YDgCLcB/s1600/catintree_reddit.jpeg
OT:
anent the mascot
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PjE6bssKlUA/WG165NH0OhI/AAAAAAAA_Pw/Ty5UOpiwnlIrcVgfsx6YfQTISI0ln1YDgCLcB/s1600/catintree_reddit.jpeg
I have occasionally recommended reading Rod Dreher as a conservative voice, but when he is bad he is transcendentally off the charts magnitude 10 on the Richter scale crappy. Case in point–
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/obama-springs-transgender-traitor/
He lets all the little demons in his soul out for a picnic in that one. The update practically screams “stop me from writing anything on this subject.”
I read the American Conservative pretty faithfully now. I for one welcome our– well, no, but I do want to know what they think, though TAC isn’t mainstream conservative. Not sure what that is these days. Their regulars vary in quality. Daniel Larison is consistently boringly good. With Rod, every post is an adventure.
All this by way of asking whether anyone knows any place on the web where people of wildly differing views on politics have relatively civil conversations. Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. Dreher’s blog can be good and his comment section can be pretty diverse, but if he doesn’t back down from the post above it’s gonna be a little hard to respect him in the morning.
I have occasionally recommended reading Rod Dreher as a conservative voice, but when he is bad he is transcendentally off the charts magnitude 10 on the Richter scale crappy. Case in point–
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/obama-springs-transgender-traitor/
He lets all the little demons in his soul out for a picnic in that one. The update practically screams “stop me from writing anything on this subject.”
I read the American Conservative pretty faithfully now. I for one welcome our– well, no, but I do want to know what they think, though TAC isn’t mainstream conservative. Not sure what that is these days. Their regulars vary in quality. Daniel Larison is consistently boringly good. With Rod, every post is an adventure.
All this by way of asking whether anyone knows any place on the web where people of wildly differing views on politics have relatively civil conversations. Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. Dreher’s blog can be good and his comment section can be pretty diverse, but if he doesn’t back down from the post above it’s gonna be a little hard to respect him in the morning.
I have occasionally recommended reading Rod Dreher as a conservative voice, but when he is bad he is transcendentally off the charts magnitude 10 on the Richter scale crappy. Case in point–
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/obama-springs-transgender-traitor/
He lets all the little demons in his soul out for a picnic in that one. The update practically screams “stop me from writing anything on this subject.”
I read the American Conservative pretty faithfully now. I for one welcome our– well, no, but I do want to know what they think, though TAC isn’t mainstream conservative. Not sure what that is these days. Their regulars vary in quality. Daniel Larison is consistently boringly good. With Rod, every post is an adventure.
All this by way of asking whether anyone knows any place on the web where people of wildly differing views on politics have relatively civil conversations. Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. Dreher’s blog can be good and his comment section can be pretty diverse, but if he doesn’t back down from the post above it’s gonna be a little hard to respect him in the morning.
“Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. ”
Perhaps, since this is mostly true, one should wonder why.
Dreher was a pig at the Dallas Morning News and continues to be at Amcon. How anyone can find this surprising is a mystery.
“Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. ”
Perhaps, since this is mostly true, one should wonder why.
Dreher was a pig at the Dallas Morning News and continues to be at Amcon. How anyone can find this surprising is a mystery.
“Obiwi used to be that, but it’s mostly liberal/ left now. ”
Perhaps, since this is mostly true, one should wonder why.
Dreher was a pig at the Dallas Morning News and continues to be at Amcon. How anyone can find this surprising is a mystery.
Considering how things have gone in the national political conversation, it may be at least worth raising the question: Has ObWi really gotten more liberal? Or is it just that the perceived center has moved?
Considering how things have gone in the national political conversation, it may be at least worth raising the question: Has ObWi really gotten more liberal? Or is it just that the perceived center has moved?
Considering how things have gone in the national political conversation, it may be at least worth raising the question: Has ObWi really gotten more liberal? Or is it just that the perceived center has moved?
Sheesh, that Rod Dreher column is a doozy, especially the update. You wonder how much is actually true and how much is him getting drunk on that conservative victim juice. Wikipedia has this
Dreher had argued that the [Catholic child abuse] scandal was not so much a “pedophile problem”, but that the “sexual abuse of minors is facilitated by a secret, powerful network of gay priests” referred to as the Lavender Mafia.
He really should get that homophobia looked at…
Sheesh, that Rod Dreher column is a doozy, especially the update. You wonder how much is actually true and how much is him getting drunk on that conservative victim juice. Wikipedia has this
Dreher had argued that the [Catholic child abuse] scandal was not so much a “pedophile problem”, but that the “sexual abuse of minors is facilitated by a secret, powerful network of gay priests” referred to as the Lavender Mafia.
He really should get that homophobia looked at…
Sheesh, that Rod Dreher column is a doozy, especially the update. You wonder how much is actually true and how much is him getting drunk on that conservative victim juice. Wikipedia has this
Dreher had argued that the [Catholic child abuse] scandal was not so much a “pedophile problem”, but that the “sexual abuse of minors is facilitated by a secret, powerful network of gay priests” referred to as the Lavender Mafia.
He really should get that homophobia looked at…
Dreher drives me nuts. I’m a sucker for his literacy, but he goes off the rails so often that I want to comment there and ruin that blog too.
He had another piece the other day, warning of so much dire disruption by LGBT folks et al at the Inaugural that Trump would be forced to call in the National Guard and physically bang heads together.
Then I get near the end of the column rubbing my hands together at what sort of militancy Dreher is warning of, and it turns out LGBT folks might stage a dance party in front of Mike Pence’s house in D.C.
Definitely time to deploy the snipers with trigger fingers.
Here’s hoping they dance, but no window smashing, no car burning, and clean up afterwards. My idea of militancy in the face of THE FACE is showing up extravagantly armed like the Oath Keepers and other right-wingers do way too often and looking like serious f*cking people, but to the beat of the B-52s, say.
I’m all for dancing, however, and in fact it would be bizarrely ominous-looking if folks with AR-15s slung over their shoulders were line-dancing up and down Pence’s street.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
That’s a rhetorical question.
Dreher drives me nuts. I’m a sucker for his literacy, but he goes off the rails so often that I want to comment there and ruin that blog too.
He had another piece the other day, warning of so much dire disruption by LGBT folks et al at the Inaugural that Trump would be forced to call in the National Guard and physically bang heads together.
Then I get near the end of the column rubbing my hands together at what sort of militancy Dreher is warning of, and it turns out LGBT folks might stage a dance party in front of Mike Pence’s house in D.C.
Definitely time to deploy the snipers with trigger fingers.
Here’s hoping they dance, but no window smashing, no car burning, and clean up afterwards. My idea of militancy in the face of THE FACE is showing up extravagantly armed like the Oath Keepers and other right-wingers do way too often and looking like serious f*cking people, but to the beat of the B-52s, say.
I’m all for dancing, however, and in fact it would be bizarrely ominous-looking if folks with AR-15s slung over their shoulders were line-dancing up and down Pence’s street.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
That’s a rhetorical question.
Dreher drives me nuts. I’m a sucker for his literacy, but he goes off the rails so often that I want to comment there and ruin that blog too.
He had another piece the other day, warning of so much dire disruption by LGBT folks et al at the Inaugural that Trump would be forced to call in the National Guard and physically bang heads together.
Then I get near the end of the column rubbing my hands together at what sort of militancy Dreher is warning of, and it turns out LGBT folks might stage a dance party in front of Mike Pence’s house in D.C.
Definitely time to deploy the snipers with trigger fingers.
Here’s hoping they dance, but no window smashing, no car burning, and clean up afterwards. My idea of militancy in the face of THE FACE is showing up extravagantly armed like the Oath Keepers and other right-wingers do way too often and looking like serious f*cking people, but to the beat of the B-52s, say.
I’m all for dancing, however, and in fact it would be bizarrely ominous-looking if folks with AR-15s slung over their shoulders were line-dancing up and down Pence’s street.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
That’s a rhetorical question.
joel, love the kitty!
joel, love the kitty!
joel, love the kitty!
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
This problem has been solved, repeatedly. Pick an approach and get it freaking done.
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
Speaking of the LGBT dance party, Pence’s temporary home is about a 90 second drive from my (soon to be sold) former house. Pretty much every other house, if not more, in the surrounding neighborhood is flying the rainbow flag.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
Speaking of the LGBT dance party, Pence’s temporary home is about a 90 second drive from my (soon to be sold) former house. Pretty much every other house, if not more, in the surrounding neighborhood is flying the rainbow flag.
In fact, if the Oath Keepers and such really are so anti-government, why aren’t they serving as totem militia security in defense of the Women’s March and the LGBT dance party?
Speaking of the LGBT dance party, Pence’s temporary home is about a 90 second drive from my (soon to be sold) former house. Pretty much every other house, if not more, in the surrounding neighborhood is flying the rainbow flag.
Count: I hear that Trump managed to coerce the Radio City Music Hall Rockettes into performing at the inaugural, which is probably much more to Trump’s “NYC” taste than all those Country/Gospel groups anyways.
I, for one, look forward to the Rockettes parading down Pennsylvania Ave, with their trademark “turn-step-kick” moves.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
Count: I hear that Trump managed to coerce the Radio City Music Hall Rockettes into performing at the inaugural, which is probably much more to Trump’s “NYC” taste than all those Country/Gospel groups anyways.
I, for one, look forward to the Rockettes parading down Pennsylvania Ave, with their trademark “turn-step-kick” moves.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
Count: I hear that Trump managed to coerce the Radio City Music Hall Rockettes into performing at the inaugural, which is probably much more to Trump’s “NYC” taste than all those Country/Gospel groups anyways.
I, for one, look forward to the Rockettes parading down Pennsylvania Ave, with their trademark “turn-step-kick” moves.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
“ongoing squabbles” vs. “looming existential hellstorm”, which is preferable?
Trump’s voters have spoken, amirite?
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
“ongoing squabbles” vs. “looming existential hellstorm”, which is preferable?
Trump’s voters have spoken, amirite?
If you follow the ongoing squabbles among the health care providers, patients, government, advocacy groups, etc. in, say Ontario, you get the impression that the “problem has been solved” is still very much a work in progress.
“ongoing squabbles” vs. “looming existential hellstorm”, which is preferable?
Trump’s voters have spoken, amirite?
Rod at his best can be good, which is why I read him, but he’s got some personal demons and when they come out I usually just skip over the post. Last night I resd him in utter fascination– he thought he was writing about Manning but it was entirely about his own obsessions.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well. You never know from thread to thread what you are going to get, but at its best it can be quite good. That is what initially impressed me about the blog. If there are others out there, preferably without the drawbacks, I would like to read them.
Rod at his best can be good, which is why I read him, but he’s got some personal demons and when they come out I usually just skip over the post. Last night I resd him in utter fascination– he thought he was writing about Manning but it was entirely about his own obsessions.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well. You never know from thread to thread what you are going to get, but at its best it can be quite good. That is what initially impressed me about the blog. If there are others out there, preferably without the drawbacks, I would like to read them.
Rod at his best can be good, which is why I read him, but he’s got some personal demons and when they come out I usually just skip over the post. Last night I resd him in utter fascination– he thought he was writing about Manning but it was entirely about his own obsessions.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well. You never know from thread to thread what you are going to get, but at its best it can be quite good. That is what initially impressed me about the blog. If there are others out there, preferably without the drawbacks, I would like to read them.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
Don’t worry. That’s really coming.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
Don’t worry. That’s really coming.
Only the evul liebrals or pathologically pedantic (but I repeat myself) would term it “goose-stepping”.
Don’t worry. That’s really coming.
Lavender Mafia?
I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.
And no, I can’t really think of anyplace where you are more likely to have a thoughtful and polite conversation among folks with different viewpoints. IMO this is about as good as it gets.
I’m also not sure what conversation is available that isn’t just sort of academic. In terms of the people and policies that are actually on hand as facts on the ground, what the hell is there to say? We can probably have interesting conversations about how True Conservative policies might compare to True Liberal policies, but the reality at the moment is Trump, Ryan, and McConnell. And a (D) party that has, IMO, bargained away its moral authority via DNC style triangulation.
In a choice between nice polite technocrats and revanchist kleptocracy, I’ll take the technocrats. But there’s not much here to inspire a spirited discussion of ideas.
One side wants to try to keep the wheels on, even if the bus is headed for a not-great place. The other side wants to set the bus on fire and drive it off the cliff.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
And I am the Queen of Romania.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
Lavender Mafia?
I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.
And no, I can’t really think of anyplace where you are more likely to have a thoughtful and polite conversation among folks with different viewpoints. IMO this is about as good as it gets.
I’m also not sure what conversation is available that isn’t just sort of academic. In terms of the people and policies that are actually on hand as facts on the ground, what the hell is there to say? We can probably have interesting conversations about how True Conservative policies might compare to True Liberal policies, but the reality at the moment is Trump, Ryan, and McConnell. And a (D) party that has, IMO, bargained away its moral authority via DNC style triangulation.
In a choice between nice polite technocrats and revanchist kleptocracy, I’ll take the technocrats. But there’s not much here to inspire a spirited discussion of ideas.
One side wants to try to keep the wheels on, even if the bus is headed for a not-great place. The other side wants to set the bus on fire and drive it off the cliff.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
And I am the Queen of Romania.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
Lavender Mafia?
I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.
And no, I can’t really think of anyplace where you are more likely to have a thoughtful and polite conversation among folks with different viewpoints. IMO this is about as good as it gets.
I’m also not sure what conversation is available that isn’t just sort of academic. In terms of the people and policies that are actually on hand as facts on the ground, what the hell is there to say? We can probably have interesting conversations about how True Conservative policies might compare to True Liberal policies, but the reality at the moment is Trump, Ryan, and McConnell. And a (D) party that has, IMO, bargained away its moral authority via DNC style triangulation.
In a choice between nice polite technocrats and revanchist kleptocracy, I’ll take the technocrats. But there’s not much here to inspire a spirited discussion of ideas.
One side wants to try to keep the wheels on, even if the bus is headed for a not-great place. The other side wants to set the bus on fire and drive it off the cliff.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
And I am the Queen of Romania.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well.
According to someone at LGM, Dreher moderates the comments, so if true, the nasty folk you are seeing there are ones he’s letting in.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well.
According to someone at LGM, Dreher moderates the comments, so if true, the nasty folk you are seeing there are ones he’s letting in.
There are some really thoughtful conservatives and liberals in his comment threads, people who don’t necessarily fit neatly into the prevailing categories. There are also some nasty folk as well.
According to someone at LGM, Dreher moderates the comments, so if true, the nasty folk you are seeing there are ones he’s letting in.
DeVoss…
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/schooled/2017/01/betsy_devos_confirmation_hearing_showed_she_s_either_underprepared_or_a.html
“Why, in 2017, are we still questioning parents’ ability to exercise educational choice for their children?” she asked. “For me it’s simple: I trust parents and I believe in our children.”
Bet she’s a fan of the tooth fairy, too.
DeVos’ allies, like former Sen. Joe Lieberman, who introduced her, presented her lack of governing experience as a plus. Coming from outside the educational “establishment…is one of the most important qualifications you can have for this job,” Lieberman said….
I’d almost forgotten about Lieberman. Someone should update his Wikipedia page: “A former member of the Democratic Party, he was the party’s nominee for Vice President in the 2000 election. Currently an Independent, he remains closely associated with the party.”
Closely associated ??
DeVoss…
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/schooled/2017/01/betsy_devos_confirmation_hearing_showed_she_s_either_underprepared_or_a.html
“Why, in 2017, are we still questioning parents’ ability to exercise educational choice for their children?” she asked. “For me it’s simple: I trust parents and I believe in our children.”
Bet she’s a fan of the tooth fairy, too.
DeVos’ allies, like former Sen. Joe Lieberman, who introduced her, presented her lack of governing experience as a plus. Coming from outside the educational “establishment…is one of the most important qualifications you can have for this job,” Lieberman said….
I’d almost forgotten about Lieberman. Someone should update his Wikipedia page: “A former member of the Democratic Party, he was the party’s nominee for Vice President in the 2000 election. Currently an Independent, he remains closely associated with the party.”
Closely associated ??
DeVoss…
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/schooled/2017/01/betsy_devos_confirmation_hearing_showed_she_s_either_underprepared_or_a.html
“Why, in 2017, are we still questioning parents’ ability to exercise educational choice for their children?” she asked. “For me it’s simple: I trust parents and I believe in our children.”
Bet she’s a fan of the tooth fairy, too.
DeVos’ allies, like former Sen. Joe Lieberman, who introduced her, presented her lack of governing experience as a plus. Coming from outside the educational “establishment…is one of the most important qualifications you can have for this job,” Lieberman said….
I’d almost forgotten about Lieberman. Someone should update his Wikipedia page: “A former member of the Democratic Party, he was the party’s nominee for Vice President in the 2000 election. Currently an Independent, he remains closely associated with the party.”
Closely associated ??
I intend to oppose Trump on an issue by issue basis– this will no doubt include most issues where he adopts a position. I seem to recall an issue or two where Bush was wrong and yet ObiWi had this notion that maybe it was useful to discuss things like torture or preventive war.
You talk to people to find out where they stand. The NYT interviewed some Trump supporting white women on Sunday. They seemed deeply naive about Trump, putting it mildly, but the good news is that some of them really thought Trump would bring back good jobs and really did vote in part because of economic anxiety. He doesn’t have to lose all his support to lose in 2020.
Also, on some issues I am closer to some conservatives than to the right wing of the Democrats. Our interventions overseas, for instance. Unfortunately the mainstream Republicans opposed to Trump tend to be the people who favored going into Iraq. The same is true of some Democrats. On some issues, from where I stand it’s like choosing between rival gangs. Which is why I go to places where there might be conservatives who agree with me.
I intend to oppose Trump on an issue by issue basis– this will no doubt include most issues where he adopts a position. I seem to recall an issue or two where Bush was wrong and yet ObiWi had this notion that maybe it was useful to discuss things like torture or preventive war.
You talk to people to find out where they stand. The NYT interviewed some Trump supporting white women on Sunday. They seemed deeply naive about Trump, putting it mildly, but the good news is that some of them really thought Trump would bring back good jobs and really did vote in part because of economic anxiety. He doesn’t have to lose all his support to lose in 2020.
Also, on some issues I am closer to some conservatives than to the right wing of the Democrats. Our interventions overseas, for instance. Unfortunately the mainstream Republicans opposed to Trump tend to be the people who favored going into Iraq. The same is true of some Democrats. On some issues, from where I stand it’s like choosing between rival gangs. Which is why I go to places where there might be conservatives who agree with me.
I intend to oppose Trump on an issue by issue basis– this will no doubt include most issues where he adopts a position. I seem to recall an issue or two where Bush was wrong and yet ObiWi had this notion that maybe it was useful to discuss things like torture or preventive war.
You talk to people to find out where they stand. The NYT interviewed some Trump supporting white women on Sunday. They seemed deeply naive about Trump, putting it mildly, but the good news is that some of them really thought Trump would bring back good jobs and really did vote in part because of economic anxiety. He doesn’t have to lose all his support to lose in 2020.
Also, on some issues I am closer to some conservatives than to the right wing of the Democrats. Our interventions overseas, for instance. Unfortunately the mainstream Republicans opposed to Trump tend to be the people who favored going into Iraq. The same is true of some Democrats. On some issues, from where I stand it’s like choosing between rival gangs. Which is why I go to places where there might be conservatives who agree with me.
True story, which I’ve been saving for these, my last end days at OBWI. I’m telling it to prove that I really do have face-to-face “reality show” personal experience with the current ominous, right-wing assholery/brownshirted performance art (yeah, it’s art like Stalingrad was art) now abroad in the land.
Last October, I visited Pittsburgh to help the siblings clean out and distribute the contents of my late mother’s house. I stayed at my brother’s house a few miles away, actually his significant other’s house and they live there together with her three sons from her previous marriage, who are in and out, and my brother’s son, who lives in the house next door that my brother owns.
The youngest of her sons is nearly 16, and he’s a nice kid, funny, smart, and his resolute goal in life is to become a Navy Seal, and he’s constantly training physically and he doesn’t mess with drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes like some of his peers.
Fine and noble so far. But along with this he loves his gigantic knives and his guns, which he keeps, most of them, in his bedroom, and I mean, as far as I can tell, the semi-automatic varieties.
He has preached the gospel of Ted Nugent to me on previous occasions. Like your typical teenager on the latest jag, in fact, it reminded me of when I was a teenager and would trap my grandfather in the den and make him listen to every track on Sargent Pepper’s Lonely Heart Club’s Band and try to elicit from this man, who practically gagged at facial hair and amplified guitar cacophonies (and don’t get him started on Martin Luther King, THAT Communist) back in the day (he was a Lawrence Welk fan; nothing wrong with that), some sort of recognition of the Beatles’ talents. “But Grandpa, I would plead, listen to the string section on this song!”
He was very patient, looking back on it.
This kid is sort of like that, IF Sargent Pepper was Adjutant General Pepper and the celebrities on the cover of the album were wielding weapons in a bid to overthrow the Crown and Parliament in a violent military coup.
So one night on my visit, I’m sitting on the couch and he emerges from his bedroom fully-camoed with a pistol strapped to his belt and a longer, obviously semi-automatic weapon strapped over his shoulder and he plops down on the couch next to me, grabs the TV remote and pulls up a video/movie of Navy Seals ostensibly wiping out the “goatf*ckers” (the kid’s language, repeated ad nausem, in wherever country they were doing it in, and then, since we’re leading up to the election, I get an earful about how Donald Trump is going to round up all of the “goatf*ckers” in this country and kick them and their camels to the curb and Ted Nugent says Hillary Clinton is going to take all of our weapons, yadda, yadda, yadda, but she’s gotta another thing coming.
All of this while pointing the longer gun at the TV screen, like an overmedicated, cracker Elvis, and communicated to me in a not unpleasant tone of voice, like maybe I might agree with some of it, how could I not (I haven’t talked politics to the kid before), and don’t I think Paul’s middle eight in “A Day In The Life” is a perfect counterpoint to Lennon’s other-worldly lyrical mourning in the rest of the song?
This happened again on one other night.
Now, let me say, that this kid knows how to use these weapons in hunting and target practice and I’m certain, though I didn’t ask, that they are fully licensed, not loaded, and the safeties were on. In addition, I know, since I looked up PA state laws, afterwards, that there was nothing unlawful in that state about this behavior IN his own house.
No laws against being a f8cking a*shole behind closed doors, because freedom. If I called the police, they’d stand there with their weapons strapped to their belts and tell me the kid, also armed to the teeth, hadn’t threatened me, so what’s the problem?
Considering I’m outgunned here, officer, no problem whatsoever. Because we live in crazy land.
Now, someone might ask where were the parents when this was going on? Well, my brother, who is NOT the kid’s Dad was reading the paper about ten feet away (I know this, because a couple of times I looked over at him with a “Are you getting a load of this?” look on my face. The kid’s Mom was in the kitchen cooking. One of his brothers, who are both older, was sitting nearby watching the same show like it was Scooby-Doo.
Apparently, this happens quite often.
For my own self, I didn’t feel it was my place to go full towering Countme-In on the kid, since we are friendly to boot, but I do have a way of looking at a person and asking at intervals “Is that so?” like a combination of Groucho Marx and pick any Mafia Don.
The only thing I really said was “So if your prospective Navy Seal commander was sitting here, what would he think about this display of distemper, given military discipline”, to which the kid gave a look like I’d just corrected his posture, which is ramrod straight.
Under Trump, I don’t think I know the answer to that question, do I?
But, as I sat there, I was formulating a course of action.
The only parent you need to know about is the kid’s biological Dad, who lives in his mother’s basement after the messy divorce, but has a Jones on about weapons and I’m sure, his right-wing bullsh*t, because he is a white male victim of the homo/swarthy/vaginal Axis and has purchased all of the weapons and the ammo his three sons own (the other two never flaunt the stuff) and off they go hunting and target-practicing on a regular basis.
I’ve never met him, and don’t want to, but when his name comes up, just about everyone in the room performs an extravagant eye roll. Besides, I have no compunction about yelling at a guy near my age like that if I feel it’s necessary.
Here’s what I did. I returned home and was going to visit again at Thanksgiving, which I did, but with my 27-year old son along and his girlfriend. A couple of weeks before departure, I called my brother up and said. “Listen up. We’re staying with you at Thanksgiving. Thanks ahead of time for the hospitality. But if the kid comes out of his room carrying weapons and carries on about other human beings like he did last time, we are out of there to a motel. So, you talk to your significant other, who is a great person, and one of you let him know about the new rules. Further, if he does present like that again, maybe the other two will head for the motel and I’ll stick around and maybe fetch a pistol out of my suitcase and plop MYSELF down on the couch too, so things are equalized. Plus, as you know, I can get loud about assholes Trump and Nugent. Furthermore, I’d be happy to call up this kid’s Navy recruiter, when that time comes, and tell them about what an undisciplined little twit the kid is among civilians when the Navy’s not looking.”
After a moment of silence, my brother said “We will absolutely lay down the law, and I don’t know why we haven’t done it before. It’s been like background noise until now. And you know about HIS Dad.”
So, I arrive at Thanksgiving. Everyone is all smiles. The kid, a good sort like I said, comes up to me before I can put down my bag in the foyer, says hello and asks me, without a trace of surliness, “Listen, while you are here, my Dad is taking me hunting on Saturday, so I have to carry my weapon thru the house and out to his car. Is that O.K.”
“Yeah, that would be normal”, I said, with a smile, resisting the temptation to ask what sort of human snipe they would be hunting.
We shook hands and had a great time for the duration of the visit.
But there is something very wrong in America, And the examples held up for these kids need to be confronted with their own tough talk and whatever implements of destruction they like to wave around like it’s fucking normal.
True story, which I’ve been saving for these, my last end days at OBWI. I’m telling it to prove that I really do have face-to-face “reality show” personal experience with the current ominous, right-wing assholery/brownshirted performance art (yeah, it’s art like Stalingrad was art) now abroad in the land.
Last October, I visited Pittsburgh to help the siblings clean out and distribute the contents of my late mother’s house. I stayed at my brother’s house a few miles away, actually his significant other’s house and they live there together with her three sons from her previous marriage, who are in and out, and my brother’s son, who lives in the house next door that my brother owns.
The youngest of her sons is nearly 16, and he’s a nice kid, funny, smart, and his resolute goal in life is to become a Navy Seal, and he’s constantly training physically and he doesn’t mess with drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes like some of his peers.
Fine and noble so far. But along with this he loves his gigantic knives and his guns, which he keeps, most of them, in his bedroom, and I mean, as far as I can tell, the semi-automatic varieties.
He has preached the gospel of Ted Nugent to me on previous occasions. Like your typical teenager on the latest jag, in fact, it reminded me of when I was a teenager and would trap my grandfather in the den and make him listen to every track on Sargent Pepper’s Lonely Heart Club’s Band and try to elicit from this man, who practically gagged at facial hair and amplified guitar cacophonies (and don’t get him started on Martin Luther King, THAT Communist) back in the day (he was a Lawrence Welk fan; nothing wrong with that), some sort of recognition of the Beatles’ talents. “But Grandpa, I would plead, listen to the string section on this song!”
He was very patient, looking back on it.
This kid is sort of like that, IF Sargent Pepper was Adjutant General Pepper and the celebrities on the cover of the album were wielding weapons in a bid to overthrow the Crown and Parliament in a violent military coup.
So one night on my visit, I’m sitting on the couch and he emerges from his bedroom fully-camoed with a pistol strapped to his belt and a longer, obviously semi-automatic weapon strapped over his shoulder and he plops down on the couch next to me, grabs the TV remote and pulls up a video/movie of Navy Seals ostensibly wiping out the “goatf*ckers” (the kid’s language, repeated ad nausem, in wherever country they were doing it in, and then, since we’re leading up to the election, I get an earful about how Donald Trump is going to round up all of the “goatf*ckers” in this country and kick them and their camels to the curb and Ted Nugent says Hillary Clinton is going to take all of our weapons, yadda, yadda, yadda, but she’s gotta another thing coming.
All of this while pointing the longer gun at the TV screen, like an overmedicated, cracker Elvis, and communicated to me in a not unpleasant tone of voice, like maybe I might agree with some of it, how could I not (I haven’t talked politics to the kid before), and don’t I think Paul’s middle eight in “A Day In The Life” is a perfect counterpoint to Lennon’s other-worldly lyrical mourning in the rest of the song?
This happened again on one other night.
Now, let me say, that this kid knows how to use these weapons in hunting and target practice and I’m certain, though I didn’t ask, that they are fully licensed, not loaded, and the safeties were on. In addition, I know, since I looked up PA state laws, afterwards, that there was nothing unlawful in that state about this behavior IN his own house.
No laws against being a f8cking a*shole behind closed doors, because freedom. If I called the police, they’d stand there with their weapons strapped to their belts and tell me the kid, also armed to the teeth, hadn’t threatened me, so what’s the problem?
Considering I’m outgunned here, officer, no problem whatsoever. Because we live in crazy land.
Now, someone might ask where were the parents when this was going on? Well, my brother, who is NOT the kid’s Dad was reading the paper about ten feet away (I know this, because a couple of times I looked over at him with a “Are you getting a load of this?” look on my face. The kid’s Mom was in the kitchen cooking. One of his brothers, who are both older, was sitting nearby watching the same show like it was Scooby-Doo.
Apparently, this happens quite often.
For my own self, I didn’t feel it was my place to go full towering Countme-In on the kid, since we are friendly to boot, but I do have a way of looking at a person and asking at intervals “Is that so?” like a combination of Groucho Marx and pick any Mafia Don.
The only thing I really said was “So if your prospective Navy Seal commander was sitting here, what would he think about this display of distemper, given military discipline”, to which the kid gave a look like I’d just corrected his posture, which is ramrod straight.
Under Trump, I don’t think I know the answer to that question, do I?
But, as I sat there, I was formulating a course of action.
The only parent you need to know about is the kid’s biological Dad, who lives in his mother’s basement after the messy divorce, but has a Jones on about weapons and I’m sure, his right-wing bullsh*t, because he is a white male victim of the homo/swarthy/vaginal Axis and has purchased all of the weapons and the ammo his three sons own (the other two never flaunt the stuff) and off they go hunting and target-practicing on a regular basis.
I’ve never met him, and don’t want to, but when his name comes up, just about everyone in the room performs an extravagant eye roll. Besides, I have no compunction about yelling at a guy near my age like that if I feel it’s necessary.
Here’s what I did. I returned home and was going to visit again at Thanksgiving, which I did, but with my 27-year old son along and his girlfriend. A couple of weeks before departure, I called my brother up and said. “Listen up. We’re staying with you at Thanksgiving. Thanks ahead of time for the hospitality. But if the kid comes out of his room carrying weapons and carries on about other human beings like he did last time, we are out of there to a motel. So, you talk to your significant other, who is a great person, and one of you let him know about the new rules. Further, if he does present like that again, maybe the other two will head for the motel and I’ll stick around and maybe fetch a pistol out of my suitcase and plop MYSELF down on the couch too, so things are equalized. Plus, as you know, I can get loud about assholes Trump and Nugent. Furthermore, I’d be happy to call up this kid’s Navy recruiter, when that time comes, and tell them about what an undisciplined little twit the kid is among civilians when the Navy’s not looking.”
After a moment of silence, my brother said “We will absolutely lay down the law, and I don’t know why we haven’t done it before. It’s been like background noise until now. And you know about HIS Dad.”
So, I arrive at Thanksgiving. Everyone is all smiles. The kid, a good sort like I said, comes up to me before I can put down my bag in the foyer, says hello and asks me, without a trace of surliness, “Listen, while you are here, my Dad is taking me hunting on Saturday, so I have to carry my weapon thru the house and out to his car. Is that O.K.”
“Yeah, that would be normal”, I said, with a smile, resisting the temptation to ask what sort of human snipe they would be hunting.
We shook hands and had a great time for the duration of the visit.
But there is something very wrong in America, And the examples held up for these kids need to be confronted with their own tough talk and whatever implements of destruction they like to wave around like it’s fucking normal.
True story, which I’ve been saving for these, my last end days at OBWI. I’m telling it to prove that I really do have face-to-face “reality show” personal experience with the current ominous, right-wing assholery/brownshirted performance art (yeah, it’s art like Stalingrad was art) now abroad in the land.
Last October, I visited Pittsburgh to help the siblings clean out and distribute the contents of my late mother’s house. I stayed at my brother’s house a few miles away, actually his significant other’s house and they live there together with her three sons from her previous marriage, who are in and out, and my brother’s son, who lives in the house next door that my brother owns.
The youngest of her sons is nearly 16, and he’s a nice kid, funny, smart, and his resolute goal in life is to become a Navy Seal, and he’s constantly training physically and he doesn’t mess with drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes like some of his peers.
Fine and noble so far. But along with this he loves his gigantic knives and his guns, which he keeps, most of them, in his bedroom, and I mean, as far as I can tell, the semi-automatic varieties.
He has preached the gospel of Ted Nugent to me on previous occasions. Like your typical teenager on the latest jag, in fact, it reminded me of when I was a teenager and would trap my grandfather in the den and make him listen to every track on Sargent Pepper’s Lonely Heart Club’s Band and try to elicit from this man, who practically gagged at facial hair and amplified guitar cacophonies (and don’t get him started on Martin Luther King, THAT Communist) back in the day (he was a Lawrence Welk fan; nothing wrong with that), some sort of recognition of the Beatles’ talents. “But Grandpa, I would plead, listen to the string section on this song!”
He was very patient, looking back on it.
This kid is sort of like that, IF Sargent Pepper was Adjutant General Pepper and the celebrities on the cover of the album were wielding weapons in a bid to overthrow the Crown and Parliament in a violent military coup.
So one night on my visit, I’m sitting on the couch and he emerges from his bedroom fully-camoed with a pistol strapped to his belt and a longer, obviously semi-automatic weapon strapped over his shoulder and he plops down on the couch next to me, grabs the TV remote and pulls up a video/movie of Navy Seals ostensibly wiping out the “goatf*ckers” (the kid’s language, repeated ad nausem, in wherever country they were doing it in, and then, since we’re leading up to the election, I get an earful about how Donald Trump is going to round up all of the “goatf*ckers” in this country and kick them and their camels to the curb and Ted Nugent says Hillary Clinton is going to take all of our weapons, yadda, yadda, yadda, but she’s gotta another thing coming.
All of this while pointing the longer gun at the TV screen, like an overmedicated, cracker Elvis, and communicated to me in a not unpleasant tone of voice, like maybe I might agree with some of it, how could I not (I haven’t talked politics to the kid before), and don’t I think Paul’s middle eight in “A Day In The Life” is a perfect counterpoint to Lennon’s other-worldly lyrical mourning in the rest of the song?
This happened again on one other night.
Now, let me say, that this kid knows how to use these weapons in hunting and target practice and I’m certain, though I didn’t ask, that they are fully licensed, not loaded, and the safeties were on. In addition, I know, since I looked up PA state laws, afterwards, that there was nothing unlawful in that state about this behavior IN his own house.
No laws against being a f8cking a*shole behind closed doors, because freedom. If I called the police, they’d stand there with their weapons strapped to their belts and tell me the kid, also armed to the teeth, hadn’t threatened me, so what’s the problem?
Considering I’m outgunned here, officer, no problem whatsoever. Because we live in crazy land.
Now, someone might ask where were the parents when this was going on? Well, my brother, who is NOT the kid’s Dad was reading the paper about ten feet away (I know this, because a couple of times I looked over at him with a “Are you getting a load of this?” look on my face. The kid’s Mom was in the kitchen cooking. One of his brothers, who are both older, was sitting nearby watching the same show like it was Scooby-Doo.
Apparently, this happens quite often.
For my own self, I didn’t feel it was my place to go full towering Countme-In on the kid, since we are friendly to boot, but I do have a way of looking at a person and asking at intervals “Is that so?” like a combination of Groucho Marx and pick any Mafia Don.
The only thing I really said was “So if your prospective Navy Seal commander was sitting here, what would he think about this display of distemper, given military discipline”, to which the kid gave a look like I’d just corrected his posture, which is ramrod straight.
Under Trump, I don’t think I know the answer to that question, do I?
But, as I sat there, I was formulating a course of action.
The only parent you need to know about is the kid’s biological Dad, who lives in his mother’s basement after the messy divorce, but has a Jones on about weapons and I’m sure, his right-wing bullsh*t, because he is a white male victim of the homo/swarthy/vaginal Axis and has purchased all of the weapons and the ammo his three sons own (the other two never flaunt the stuff) and off they go hunting and target-practicing on a regular basis.
I’ve never met him, and don’t want to, but when his name comes up, just about everyone in the room performs an extravagant eye roll. Besides, I have no compunction about yelling at a guy near my age like that if I feel it’s necessary.
Here’s what I did. I returned home and was going to visit again at Thanksgiving, which I did, but with my 27-year old son along and his girlfriend. A couple of weeks before departure, I called my brother up and said. “Listen up. We’re staying with you at Thanksgiving. Thanks ahead of time for the hospitality. But if the kid comes out of his room carrying weapons and carries on about other human beings like he did last time, we are out of there to a motel. So, you talk to your significant other, who is a great person, and one of you let him know about the new rules. Further, if he does present like that again, maybe the other two will head for the motel and I’ll stick around and maybe fetch a pistol out of my suitcase and plop MYSELF down on the couch too, so things are equalized. Plus, as you know, I can get loud about assholes Trump and Nugent. Furthermore, I’d be happy to call up this kid’s Navy recruiter, when that time comes, and tell them about what an undisciplined little twit the kid is among civilians when the Navy’s not looking.”
After a moment of silence, my brother said “We will absolutely lay down the law, and I don’t know why we haven’t done it before. It’s been like background noise until now. And you know about HIS Dad.”
So, I arrive at Thanksgiving. Everyone is all smiles. The kid, a good sort like I said, comes up to me before I can put down my bag in the foyer, says hello and asks me, without a trace of surliness, “Listen, while you are here, my Dad is taking me hunting on Saturday, so I have to carry my weapon thru the house and out to his car. Is that O.K.”
“Yeah, that would be normal”, I said, with a smile, resisting the temptation to ask what sort of human snipe they would be hunting.
We shook hands and had a great time for the duration of the visit.
But there is something very wrong in America, And the examples held up for these kids need to be confronted with their own tough talk and whatever implements of destruction they like to wave around like it’s fucking normal.
“I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.”
I’m so old, I remember the day exactly. OBWI co-founder Moe Lane said he couldn’t handle the lefties anymore, even though at the time we had a pretty equal distribution from both sides, and everyone in the middle, as was the original noble intention of the site.
Off he went, feelings hurt, with Tacitus/Trevino and the rest of the crew, to Redstate for some professional epistemic closure. The less sensitive, tougher conservatives, like Slart, Von, and Charles Bird stuck it out and a good thing too.
Will the military be flying over New York and Washington D.C. with the bomb bay doors open?
“I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.”
I’m so old, I remember the day exactly. OBWI co-founder Moe Lane said he couldn’t handle the lefties anymore, even though at the time we had a pretty equal distribution from both sides, and everyone in the middle, as was the original noble intention of the site.
Off he went, feelings hurt, with Tacitus/Trevino and the rest of the crew, to Redstate for some professional epistemic closure. The less sensitive, tougher conservatives, like Slart, Von, and Charles Bird stuck it out and a good thing too.
Will the military be flying over New York and Washington D.C. with the bomb bay doors open?
“I think ObWi is definitely more leftish than it used to be. I don’t know why.”
I’m so old, I remember the day exactly. OBWI co-founder Moe Lane said he couldn’t handle the lefties anymore, even though at the time we had a pretty equal distribution from both sides, and everyone in the middle, as was the original noble intention of the site.
Off he went, feelings hurt, with Tacitus/Trevino and the rest of the crew, to Redstate for some professional epistemic closure. The less sensitive, tougher conservatives, like Slart, Von, and Charles Bird stuck it out and a good thing too.
Will the military be flying over New York and Washington D.C. with the bomb bay doors open?
I agree that racism wasn’t the ALL of the election, but what does it day that our new gummint is chock full of the notably racist murdering assholes among Trump gendarmes?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/17/new-trump-adviser-being-sued-for-hiring-whites-to-attack-blacks.html?via=newsletter&source=DDAfternoon
Must be a fucking coincidence.
Like Lester Maddox was an outlier.
That guy needs a dance party INSIDE his real estate.
I agree that racism wasn’t the ALL of the election, but what does it day that our new gummint is chock full of the notably racist murdering assholes among Trump gendarmes?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/17/new-trump-adviser-being-sued-for-hiring-whites-to-attack-blacks.html?via=newsletter&source=DDAfternoon
Must be a fucking coincidence.
Like Lester Maddox was an outlier.
That guy needs a dance party INSIDE his real estate.
I agree that racism wasn’t the ALL of the election, but what does it day that our new gummint is chock full of the notably racist murdering assholes among Trump gendarmes?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/17/new-trump-adviser-being-sued-for-hiring-whites-to-attack-blacks.html?via=newsletter&source=DDAfternoon
Must be a fucking coincidence.
Like Lester Maddox was an outlier.
That guy needs a dance party INSIDE his real estate.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
Russell, I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help. Having a reference for this would be handy for future discussion.
Count, regarding a 16 year old strapping up to play video games and the adults sitting idly by, that is truly weird. Our home has always had guns for hunting, target practice and theoretical self defense and both our son and daughter grew up hunting and shooting. Guns stay in the gun cabinet unless being cleaned or being moved to the car for a hunt or a trip to the shooting range. What you describe is weird to the point of being disordered.
LJ and Marty–I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
The article didn’t go that way. It did make a point about right wing bullying, which if it had been counter-balanced with the lefty Red Guard SJW tactics we see everyday now, would have made the article even better.
As for how awful Trump is going to be, I’m with Donald, oppose where opposition is right, support where support is right. If–and I think this is a big “if”–his more bizarre tweets become actual policy proposals, e.g. holding journalists accountable in some legal fashion (as opposed to denying them White house press credentials), then it’s time to discuss impeachment.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office. I think it’s all a bit overwrought but my crystal ball is no better than anyone else’s.
If you haven’t looked at Sec 4, XXV Amendment, US Constitution, you should. The VP and a majority of the cabinet can declare the President unable to discharge the duties of the office and that remains the case until either President says he can discharge his duties and the VP and the cabinet agree or, if the VP and Pres disagree as to the Pres’ fitness, congress decides the issue.
So, there are remedies for insanity in office. It’s why, during the Cold War (1967), this Amendment passed.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
Russell, I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help. Having a reference for this would be handy for future discussion.
Count, regarding a 16 year old strapping up to play video games and the adults sitting idly by, that is truly weird. Our home has always had guns for hunting, target practice and theoretical self defense and both our son and daughter grew up hunting and shooting. Guns stay in the gun cabinet unless being cleaned or being moved to the car for a hunt or a trip to the shooting range. What you describe is weird to the point of being disordered.
LJ and Marty–I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
The article didn’t go that way. It did make a point about right wing bullying, which if it had been counter-balanced with the lefty Red Guard SJW tactics we see everyday now, would have made the article even better.
As for how awful Trump is going to be, I’m with Donald, oppose where opposition is right, support where support is right. If–and I think this is a big “if”–his more bizarre tweets become actual policy proposals, e.g. holding journalists accountable in some legal fashion (as opposed to denying them White house press credentials), then it’s time to discuss impeachment.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office. I think it’s all a bit overwrought but my crystal ball is no better than anyone else’s.
If you haven’t looked at Sec 4, XXV Amendment, US Constitution, you should. The VP and a majority of the cabinet can declare the President unable to discharge the duties of the office and that remains the case until either President says he can discharge his duties and the VP and the cabinet agree or, if the VP and Pres disagree as to the Pres’ fitness, congress decides the issue.
So, there are remedies for insanity in office. It’s why, during the Cold War (1967), this Amendment passed.
Betsy DeVoss thinks each locale should make up their minds about guns in schools, because there are grizzlies in WY. And *of course*, she and her family will step back from any investment have in the for-profit schools industry. Her history with that movement and industry will have *no influence* on her actions or policies as SecEd.
Russell, I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help. Having a reference for this would be handy for future discussion.
Count, regarding a 16 year old strapping up to play video games and the adults sitting idly by, that is truly weird. Our home has always had guns for hunting, target practice and theoretical self defense and both our son and daughter grew up hunting and shooting. Guns stay in the gun cabinet unless being cleaned or being moved to the car for a hunt or a trip to the shooting range. What you describe is weird to the point of being disordered.
LJ and Marty–I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
The article didn’t go that way. It did make a point about right wing bullying, which if it had been counter-balanced with the lefty Red Guard SJW tactics we see everyday now, would have made the article even better.
As for how awful Trump is going to be, I’m with Donald, oppose where opposition is right, support where support is right. If–and I think this is a big “if”–his more bizarre tweets become actual policy proposals, e.g. holding journalists accountable in some legal fashion (as opposed to denying them White house press credentials), then it’s time to discuss impeachment.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office. I think it’s all a bit overwrought but my crystal ball is no better than anyone else’s.
If you haven’t looked at Sec 4, XXV Amendment, US Constitution, you should. The VP and a majority of the cabinet can declare the President unable to discharge the duties of the office and that remains the case until either President says he can discharge his duties and the VP and the cabinet agree or, if the VP and Pres disagree as to the Pres’ fitness, congress decides the issue.
So, there are remedies for insanity in office. It’s why, during the Cold War (1967), this Amendment passed.
I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help.
It’s from her testimony in her Senate hearing. I listened to it on the radio, I don’t have a link-able cite handy. If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help.
It’s from her testimony in her Senate hearing. I listened to it on the radio, I don’t have a link-able cite handy. If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
I’m not doubting this is her position, but if you have a cite, that would help.
It’s from her testimony in her Senate hearing. I listened to it on the radio, I don’t have a link-able cite handy. If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
Yeah, McTX, what was weird about that absolutely true story was that it seemed so every day normal to them.
My brother doesn’t own a weapon and doesn’t want to.
The bad influence is the biological Dad. But if you met the kid, sans weapons, you’d find him to be a normal teenager with slightly too much devotion to the Navy Seal ethos
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
The latest giveaway of that was Pence and the trump family members and staff standing off to the side laughing at the press and applauding Trump’s nuttier statements, as they asked their perfectly normal questions at the press conference last week.
Very bizarre, unprofessional behavior.
Now Pence, Ryan and company might threaten impeachment, but Trump can reach a deal with them and brag that he was the winner. Deal: I’ll sign any legislation you send up if you drop the impeachment proceedings or otherwise stymie them.
Calm, smiling psychopaths creep me out more than the flamboyant ones.
At least I can hear Trump coming.
You wanna hear overwrought? I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms, arrived at months before, against Trump and Pence and much of the rest of the Cabinet AND a good part of the Republican House of Representatives holed up there.
There will be gunfire. Trump’s last tweet will be “I never trusted Mattis, that third-rate General, and …..”
Then radio silence.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
Andrew Jackson? No, pales in comparison.
Richard Nixon. No, he of the tearful exit.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
Yeah, McTX, what was weird about that absolutely true story was that it seemed so every day normal to them.
My brother doesn’t own a weapon and doesn’t want to.
The bad influence is the biological Dad. But if you met the kid, sans weapons, you’d find him to be a normal teenager with slightly too much devotion to the Navy Seal ethos
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
The latest giveaway of that was Pence and the trump family members and staff standing off to the side laughing at the press and applauding Trump’s nuttier statements, as they asked their perfectly normal questions at the press conference last week.
Very bizarre, unprofessional behavior.
Now Pence, Ryan and company might threaten impeachment, but Trump can reach a deal with them and brag that he was the winner. Deal: I’ll sign any legislation you send up if you drop the impeachment proceedings or otherwise stymie them.
Calm, smiling psychopaths creep me out more than the flamboyant ones.
At least I can hear Trump coming.
You wanna hear overwrought? I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms, arrived at months before, against Trump and Pence and much of the rest of the Cabinet AND a good part of the Republican House of Representatives holed up there.
There will be gunfire. Trump’s last tweet will be “I never trusted Mattis, that third-rate General, and …..”
Then radio silence.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
Andrew Jackson? No, pales in comparison.
Richard Nixon. No, he of the tearful exit.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
Yeah, McTX, what was weird about that absolutely true story was that it seemed so every day normal to them.
My brother doesn’t own a weapon and doesn’t want to.
The bad influence is the biological Dad. But if you met the kid, sans weapons, you’d find him to be a normal teenager with slightly too much devotion to the Navy Seal ethos
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
The latest giveaway of that was Pence and the trump family members and staff standing off to the side laughing at the press and applauding Trump’s nuttier statements, as they asked their perfectly normal questions at the press conference last week.
Very bizarre, unprofessional behavior.
Now Pence, Ryan and company might threaten impeachment, but Trump can reach a deal with them and brag that he was the winner. Deal: I’ll sign any legislation you send up if you drop the impeachment proceedings or otherwise stymie them.
Calm, smiling psychopaths creep me out more than the flamboyant ones.
At least I can hear Trump coming.
You wanna hear overwrought? I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms, arrived at months before, against Trump and Pence and much of the rest of the Cabinet AND a good part of the Republican House of Representatives holed up there.
There will be gunfire. Trump’s last tweet will be “I never trusted Mattis, that third-rate General, and …..”
Then radio silence.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
Andrew Jackson? No, pales in comparison.
Richard Nixon. No, he of the tearful exit.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
Thanks. Now, I mean this in the nicest possible way: isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
As background, my engagement, even well before the election, has been slipping daily to the point of focusing mostly on work and fun, including grandson No. 2. So, I don’t know enough about Pence to have a solid opinion. I thought he did well, in a conventional way, in the debate against Kaine. Like Gopnik, I think Pence works within the framework of the Constitution. I’m not sure the D gets the Constitution.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
If, in place of “unhinged personality”, you said “someone like Trump”, my answer would be “I agree, this is a first.” He may yet prove to be unbalanced and mentally incapable of doing the job. If and when that becomes apparent, either impeachment or a Dem landslide or the 25th Amendment are available as a check on objective mental instability. He has two years until the mid terms. I predict the Republic will survive that long. I know I’m out on a limb here, but there you have it. I do not think the D is the end of life as we know it.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
*Sociopath* is probably an overstatement, but since it’s a subjective judgment, I’ll just say I have to see a lot more to agree with your assessment. In the meantime, any launch order would involve the SecDef and I’m reasonably content that there is a strong firewall in place in that regard. Also, we have impeachment, mid-terms and the 25th Amendment. So, there are remedies if things are as dire as many here seem to think.
If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
Thanks. Now, I mean this in the nicest possible way: isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
As background, my engagement, even well before the election, has been slipping daily to the point of focusing mostly on work and fun, including grandson No. 2. So, I don’t know enough about Pence to have a solid opinion. I thought he did well, in a conventional way, in the debate against Kaine. Like Gopnik, I think Pence works within the framework of the Constitution. I’m not sure the D gets the Constitution.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
If, in place of “unhinged personality”, you said “someone like Trump”, my answer would be “I agree, this is a first.” He may yet prove to be unbalanced and mentally incapable of doing the job. If and when that becomes apparent, either impeachment or a Dem landslide or the 25th Amendment are available as a check on objective mental instability. He has two years until the mid terms. I predict the Republic will survive that long. I know I’m out on a limb here, but there you have it. I do not think the D is the end of life as we know it.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
*Sociopath* is probably an overstatement, but since it’s a subjective judgment, I’ll just say I have to see a lot more to agree with your assessment. In the meantime, any launch order would involve the SecDef and I’m reasonably content that there is a strong firewall in place in that regard. Also, we have impeachment, mid-terms and the 25th Amendment. So, there are remedies if things are as dire as many here seem to think.
If I can find one later today, I’ll add it.
Thanks. Now, I mean this in the nicest possible way: isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
As for Trump’s impeachment, and not surprisingly you might differ with me on this, I find Pence just as reprehensible and dangerous. That he is a calm, seemingly more relaxed version of Trump gives me no comfort.
As background, my engagement, even well before the election, has been slipping daily to the point of focusing mostly on work and fun, including grandson No. 2. So, I don’t know enough about Pence to have a solid opinion. I thought he did well, in a conventional way, in the debate against Kaine. Like Gopnik, I think Pence works within the framework of the Constitution. I’m not sure the D gets the Constitution.
Tell me any time in American history that such an unhinged personality had his vengeful fingers on all the buttons.
If, in place of “unhinged personality”, you said “someone like Trump”, my answer would be “I agree, this is a first.” He may yet prove to be unbalanced and mentally incapable of doing the job. If and when that becomes apparent, either impeachment or a Dem landslide or the 25th Amendment are available as a check on objective mental instability. He has two years until the mid terms. I predict the Republic will survive that long. I know I’m out on a limb here, but there you have it. I do not think the D is the end of life as we know it.
Trump is a sociopath. No conscience. He’s the real item. Clinton was a poseur in that world of ruthlessness.
*Sociopath* is probably an overstatement, but since it’s a subjective judgment, I’ll just say I have to see a lot more to agree with your assessment. In the meantime, any launch order would involve the SecDef and I’m reasonably content that there is a strong firewall in place in that regard. Also, we have impeachment, mid-terms and the 25th Amendment. So, there are remedies if things are as dire as many here seem to think.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office.
The fact that such a conclusion hasn’t already been reached gives me very little confidence that Republicans in Congress (or anywhere else) see much of a problem here. Not sure what it will take, and how badly the United States will suffer, to make the case.
Also, could you not call Donald Trump “the D”? People use “D” for Democrat. DJT, maybe, would be better. Thanks.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office.
The fact that such a conclusion hasn’t already been reached gives me very little confidence that Republicans in Congress (or anywhere else) see much of a problem here. Not sure what it will take, and how badly the United States will suffer, to make the case.
Also, could you not call Donald Trump “the D”? People use “D” for Democrat. DJT, maybe, would be better. Thanks.
If the D turns out to be as bat shit crazy as many here seem to feel will be the case, he will be impeached or removed from office.
The fact that such a conclusion hasn’t already been reached gives me very little confidence that Republicans in Congress (or anywhere else) see much of a problem here. Not sure what it will take, and how badly the United States will suffer, to make the case.
Also, could you not call Donald Trump “the D”? People use “D” for Democrat. DJT, maybe, would be better. Thanks.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/17/putin-warns-of-a-maidan-in-washington/
Does Trump know the difference between a “maiden” and “maidan”?
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/17/putin-warns-of-a-maidan-in-washington/
Does Trump know the difference between a “maiden” and “maidan”?
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/17/putin-warns-of-a-maidan-in-washington/
Does Trump know the difference between a “maiden” and “maidan”?
isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
Pop radio today mostly sucks, and the good local jazz programming isn’t on during evening drivetime, so I listen to NPR on my way home from work. Often, on my way to work. That, or audiobooks.
DeVoss happened to be what was on.
Personally, it actually does concern me that the person nominated for SecEd has never been to a public school, has spent her adult life encouraging policies and institutions that are very arguably destructive of public schools, and has made a sh*tload of money from industries based on privatizing public schools.
And then there are theocratic tendencies, which are a whole other ball of wax.
I’m against privatizing public institutions. Period. So the nomination of DeVoss as SecDef disturbs me.
YMMV.
What do you listen to on the radio?
As far as Trump being removed: being a narcissist, or being irresponsible and reckless, or just being an obnoxious bloviating boor, are not in and of themselves evidence of clinical insanity.
So Sec 4, XXV Amendment is not likely to be of help.
Impeachment is also unlikely while the (R)’s hold the House and while Trump doesn’t get in their way.
Barring KFC-induced cardiac infarction, I expect President Trump for the next 4 years.
isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
Pop radio today mostly sucks, and the good local jazz programming isn’t on during evening drivetime, so I listen to NPR on my way home from work. Often, on my way to work. That, or audiobooks.
DeVoss happened to be what was on.
Personally, it actually does concern me that the person nominated for SecEd has never been to a public school, has spent her adult life encouraging policies and institutions that are very arguably destructive of public schools, and has made a sh*tload of money from industries based on privatizing public schools.
And then there are theocratic tendencies, which are a whole other ball of wax.
I’m against privatizing public institutions. Period. So the nomination of DeVoss as SecDef disturbs me.
YMMV.
What do you listen to on the radio?
As far as Trump being removed: being a narcissist, or being irresponsible and reckless, or just being an obnoxious bloviating boor, are not in and of themselves evidence of clinical insanity.
So Sec 4, XXV Amendment is not likely to be of help.
Impeachment is also unlikely while the (R)’s hold the House and while Trump doesn’t get in their way.
Barring KFC-induced cardiac infarction, I expect President Trump for the next 4 years.
isn’t there something else on the radio of interest? Seriously?
Pop radio today mostly sucks, and the good local jazz programming isn’t on during evening drivetime, so I listen to NPR on my way home from work. Often, on my way to work. That, or audiobooks.
DeVoss happened to be what was on.
Personally, it actually does concern me that the person nominated for SecEd has never been to a public school, has spent her adult life encouraging policies and institutions that are very arguably destructive of public schools, and has made a sh*tload of money from industries based on privatizing public schools.
And then there are theocratic tendencies, which are a whole other ball of wax.
I’m against privatizing public institutions. Period. So the nomination of DeVoss as SecDef disturbs me.
YMMV.
What do you listen to on the radio?
As far as Trump being removed: being a narcissist, or being irresponsible and reckless, or just being an obnoxious bloviating boor, are not in and of themselves evidence of clinical insanity.
So Sec 4, XXV Amendment is not likely to be of help.
Impeachment is also unlikely while the (R)’s hold the House and while Trump doesn’t get in their way.
Barring KFC-induced cardiac infarction, I expect President Trump for the next 4 years.
I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms
He’ll have to get past the wall of meat.
Has there ever been an inauguration which featured private groups gathering to provide a physical cordon around the POTUS, like some kind of amateur Pretorian Guard or maybe a free-lance Sturmabteilung?
Has there ever been a POTUS who opted to retain his personal security detail, who apparently will work alongside the Secret Service, which in and of itself ought to be pretty entertaining?
Has there ever been a POTUS who operated a for-profit private business, including significant financial obligations to foreign banks and likely to foreign sovereign funds, while holding the office?
There has been a POTUS who employed family members in policy-making positions, most recently Bill Clinton. Folks were surprised when I said Hilary should have had nothing to do with drafting or advocating for health care legislation when Bill was POTUS, now you know why. That precedent has been set, there is no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka in advisory roles. If they don’t get paid, they are not in violation of the nepotism laws, and they don’t need the money. If you were cool with Hilary leading the health care charge, you have no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka.
Why do people like me consider Trump a threat to the nation? Because he has no apparent understanding of, respect for, or inclination to comply with, generations of protocols, practices, and institutions that have served to preserve the integrity of the office he holds and the institutions he will oversee.
“The president can’t have a conflict of interest”. That is a statement that should get your attention. Actually, it’s a statement that should *immediately disqualify him for the office*, but we don’t have the political or electoral machinery to enforce that.
And no, we shouldn’t just wait to see if he actually has conflicts. The conflicts are inherent – they exist now, already – because the bar is not only not to participate in acts of blatant corruption, but to be above suspicion of corruption.
Right Marty? Right McK? Hilary was too compromised to hold the office, too many suspicions about her integrity. Where there is smoke, there must be fire, right?
Every day that DJT holds the office of POTUS, he will undermine the credibility and integrity of that office. Which is something he neither understands or has any apparent concern about.
So yeah, it all sucks.
After Nixon, there was a brief period of wanting to set things up so that stuff like that wouldn’t happen again. I don’t remember there being a similar impetus to address the BS of the Reagan and Bush I years, e.g. Iran-Contra and illegal sub-rosa wars in South America. After Bush II there was a deliberate effort to NOT hold any of the actors who brought us Gitmo and a torture regime and the doctrine of pre-emptive warfare to account.
Too divisive! Can’t have it!
So whatever Trump breaks, I assume it’s going to stay broken. I think we may have used up the last of our national scruples. Don’t want to upset anybody!
As far as guns, some people have really weird relationships with firearms. Count, you did extremely well to intervene as you did, it will only do that young man good to understand the what the boundaries of responsible firearm ownership and use are.
I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms
He’ll have to get past the wall of meat.
Has there ever been an inauguration which featured private groups gathering to provide a physical cordon around the POTUS, like some kind of amateur Pretorian Guard or maybe a free-lance Sturmabteilung?
Has there ever been a POTUS who opted to retain his personal security detail, who apparently will work alongside the Secret Service, which in and of itself ought to be pretty entertaining?
Has there ever been a POTUS who operated a for-profit private business, including significant financial obligations to foreign banks and likely to foreign sovereign funds, while holding the office?
There has been a POTUS who employed family members in policy-making positions, most recently Bill Clinton. Folks were surprised when I said Hilary should have had nothing to do with drafting or advocating for health care legislation when Bill was POTUS, now you know why. That precedent has been set, there is no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka in advisory roles. If they don’t get paid, they are not in violation of the nepotism laws, and they don’t need the money. If you were cool with Hilary leading the health care charge, you have no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka.
Why do people like me consider Trump a threat to the nation? Because he has no apparent understanding of, respect for, or inclination to comply with, generations of protocols, practices, and institutions that have served to preserve the integrity of the office he holds and the institutions he will oversee.
“The president can’t have a conflict of interest”. That is a statement that should get your attention. Actually, it’s a statement that should *immediately disqualify him for the office*, but we don’t have the political or electoral machinery to enforce that.
And no, we shouldn’t just wait to see if he actually has conflicts. The conflicts are inherent – they exist now, already – because the bar is not only not to participate in acts of blatant corruption, but to be above suspicion of corruption.
Right Marty? Right McK? Hilary was too compromised to hold the office, too many suspicions about her integrity. Where there is smoke, there must be fire, right?
Every day that DJT holds the office of POTUS, he will undermine the credibility and integrity of that office. Which is something he neither understands or has any apparent concern about.
So yeah, it all sucks.
After Nixon, there was a brief period of wanting to set things up so that stuff like that wouldn’t happen again. I don’t remember there being a similar impetus to address the BS of the Reagan and Bush I years, e.g. Iran-Contra and illegal sub-rosa wars in South America. After Bush II there was a deliberate effort to NOT hold any of the actors who brought us Gitmo and a torture regime and the doctrine of pre-emptive warfare to account.
Too divisive! Can’t have it!
So whatever Trump breaks, I assume it’s going to stay broken. I think we may have used up the last of our national scruples. Don’t want to upset anybody!
As far as guns, some people have really weird relationships with firearms. Count, you did extremely well to intervene as you did, it will only do that young man good to understand the what the boundaries of responsible firearm ownership and use are.
I predict someone, probably Mattis, will at some point over the next several years have to show up with an armed platoon at the Trump Tower and carry out the impeachment removal terms
He’ll have to get past the wall of meat.
Has there ever been an inauguration which featured private groups gathering to provide a physical cordon around the POTUS, like some kind of amateur Pretorian Guard or maybe a free-lance Sturmabteilung?
Has there ever been a POTUS who opted to retain his personal security detail, who apparently will work alongside the Secret Service, which in and of itself ought to be pretty entertaining?
Has there ever been a POTUS who operated a for-profit private business, including significant financial obligations to foreign banks and likely to foreign sovereign funds, while holding the office?
There has been a POTUS who employed family members in policy-making positions, most recently Bill Clinton. Folks were surprised when I said Hilary should have had nothing to do with drafting or advocating for health care legislation when Bill was POTUS, now you know why. That precedent has been set, there is no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka in advisory roles. If they don’t get paid, they are not in violation of the nepotism laws, and they don’t need the money. If you were cool with Hilary leading the health care charge, you have no basis for objecting to Kushner or Ivanka.
Why do people like me consider Trump a threat to the nation? Because he has no apparent understanding of, respect for, or inclination to comply with, generations of protocols, practices, and institutions that have served to preserve the integrity of the office he holds and the institutions he will oversee.
“The president can’t have a conflict of interest”. That is a statement that should get your attention. Actually, it’s a statement that should *immediately disqualify him for the office*, but we don’t have the political or electoral machinery to enforce that.
And no, we shouldn’t just wait to see if he actually has conflicts. The conflicts are inherent – they exist now, already – because the bar is not only not to participate in acts of blatant corruption, but to be above suspicion of corruption.
Right Marty? Right McK? Hilary was too compromised to hold the office, too many suspicions about her integrity. Where there is smoke, there must be fire, right?
Every day that DJT holds the office of POTUS, he will undermine the credibility and integrity of that office. Which is something he neither understands or has any apparent concern about.
So yeah, it all sucks.
After Nixon, there was a brief period of wanting to set things up so that stuff like that wouldn’t happen again. I don’t remember there being a similar impetus to address the BS of the Reagan and Bush I years, e.g. Iran-Contra and illegal sub-rosa wars in South America. After Bush II there was a deliberate effort to NOT hold any of the actors who brought us Gitmo and a torture regime and the doctrine of pre-emptive warfare to account.
Too divisive! Can’t have it!
So whatever Trump breaks, I assume it’s going to stay broken. I think we may have used up the last of our national scruples. Don’t want to upset anybody!
As far as guns, some people have really weird relationships with firearms. Count, you did extremely well to intervene as you did, it will only do that young man good to understand the what the boundaries of responsible firearm ownership and use are.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
Et tu Brute? russell, we all know that “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”, but it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Agreed.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
As far as I can tell, everybody has already picked their side, and is preparing to (or is already starting to) fight, in various ways. I’ve seen no sign, here on ObWi, of people really debating pros and cons, just timing (Marty and McKinney: let’s wait til he does something unacceptable before opposing. Most of us: already happened, but for actions as opposed to words, or cabinet picks, wait 48 hours).
McKinney, I think you have misunderstood if you believe that most of us really think Trump to be actually insane. “Unhinged”, “batshit crazy” “sociopathic”, “unstable” etc, I grant you have been often used, but actually insane I think would be very difficult to prove. So your:
would almost certainly not apply, but even if it did it needs his cabinet to agree with it, and since the appallingly unsuitable people he has picked presumably have a good reason for accepting (probably self-interest in most cases) I think it unlikely that they would voluntarily vote to derail the gravy train.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
Et tu Brute? russell, we all know that “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”, but it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Agreed.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
As far as I can tell, everybody has already picked their side, and is preparing to (or is already starting to) fight, in various ways. I’ve seen no sign, here on ObWi, of people really debating pros and cons, just timing (Marty and McKinney: let’s wait til he does something unacceptable before opposing. Most of us: already happened, but for actions as opposed to words, or cabinet picks, wait 48 hours).
McKinney, I think you have misunderstood if you believe that most of us really think Trump to be actually insane. “Unhinged”, “batshit crazy” “sociopathic”, “unstable” etc, I grant you have been often used, but actually insane I think would be very difficult to prove. So your:
would almost certainly not apply, but even if it did it needs his cabinet to agree with it, and since the appallingly unsuitable people he has picked presumably have a good reason for accepting (probably self-interest in most cases) I think it unlikely that they would voluntarily vote to derail the gravy train.
I believe there are times when candid discussion among people of different points of view are really useful. I’m not sure this is one of them.
Et tu Brute? russell, we all know that “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”, but it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
While we are respectfully exchanging our thoughts, grifters are stealing what isn’t nailed down, burning down whatever’s left, and surrounding the whole mess with land mines on their way out.
Agreed.
Should we chat about that? Debate the pros and cons? I am asking in all seriousness.
Maybe the time for companionable debate among gentlepeople is over, at least for a while. It might be time to pick a side and fight.
As far as I can tell, everybody has already picked their side, and is preparing to (or is already starting to) fight, in various ways. I’ve seen no sign, here on ObWi, of people really debating pros and cons, just timing (Marty and McKinney: let’s wait til he does something unacceptable before opposing. Most of us: already happened, but for actions as opposed to words, or cabinet picks, wait 48 hours).
McKinney, I think you have misunderstood if you believe that most of us really think Trump to be actually insane. “Unhinged”, “batshit crazy” “sociopathic”, “unstable” etc, I grant you have been often used, but actually insane I think would be very difficult to prove. So your:
would almost certainly not apply, but even if it did it needs his cabinet to agree with it, and since the appallingly unsuitable people he has picked presumably have a good reason for accepting (probably self-interest in most cases) I think it unlikely that they would voluntarily vote to derail the gravy train.
it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
To try to clarify my point:
I think it’s fine if people want to talk. I have no intentions of being anything other than tolerant, open, and fair, to the very best of my ability.
I think that’s all worthwhile, and I don’t think it will have any effect whatsoever in mitigating the damage that I expect a Trump presidency to do.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
I don’t think Trump is like anyone else who has held the office.
it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
To try to clarify my point:
I think it’s fine if people want to talk. I have no intentions of being anything other than tolerant, open, and fair, to the very best of my ability.
I think that’s all worthwhile, and I don’t think it will have any effect whatsoever in mitigating the damage that I expect a Trump presidency to do.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
I don’t think Trump is like anyone else who has held the office.
it is also necessary in order to oppose evil that good men (or people) remain themselves, with the characteristics (tolerance, openness, fairness) of good people.
To try to clarify my point:
I think it’s fine if people want to talk. I have no intentions of being anything other than tolerant, open, and fair, to the very best of my ability.
I think that’s all worthwhile, and I don’t think it will have any effect whatsoever in mitigating the damage that I expect a Trump presidency to do.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
I don’t think Trump is like anyone else who has held the office.
actions as opposed to words
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
It’s already happening, not just words.
I’m all for discussion, which is why I show up here (although venting may be a better term). But don’t expect me to assume good faith on the part of people who have let (helped) this happen, and who refuse to acknowledge their role (even currently) in facilitating it.
actions as opposed to words
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
It’s already happening, not just words.
I’m all for discussion, which is why I show up here (although venting may be a better term). But don’t expect me to assume good faith on the part of people who have let (helped) this happen, and who refuse to acknowledge their role (even currently) in facilitating it.
actions as opposed to words
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
It’s already happening, not just words.
I’m all for discussion, which is why I show up here (although venting may be a better term). But don’t expect me to assume good faith on the part of people who have let (helped) this happen, and who refuse to acknowledge their role (even currently) in facilitating it.
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
Incidentally, I have a retirement account that I incrementally move money in and out of stock funds, depending on what the market is doing. I don’t do it frequently – only when there are large shorter-term swings or after a long, sustained run in either direction. And, by “incrementally,” I mean that I don’t move more than 10% or so of the money in one shot, barring really unusual circumstances.
After the so-called “Trump rally” had been going long enough that the DJIA was nearing 20k, I got rid of ALL my stock funds in that account. I’m not sure where my first buy point is, numerically or time-wise, but I expect the index will be significantly lower than it now is when that point does come.
I do think there may be further rallying when this or that tax policy goes into effect, increasing profit margins for some period of time. But I also think the gains will be illusory, being lost several times over once DT breaks enough stuff.
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
Incidentally, I have a retirement account that I incrementally move money in and out of stock funds, depending on what the market is doing. I don’t do it frequently – only when there are large shorter-term swings or after a long, sustained run in either direction. And, by “incrementally,” I mean that I don’t move more than 10% or so of the money in one shot, barring really unusual circumstances.
After the so-called “Trump rally” had been going long enough that the DJIA was nearing 20k, I got rid of ALL my stock funds in that account. I’m not sure where my first buy point is, numerically or time-wise, but I expect the index will be significantly lower than it now is when that point does come.
I do think there may be further rallying when this or that tax policy goes into effect, increasing profit margins for some period of time. But I also think the gains will be illusory, being lost several times over once DT breaks enough stuff.
Also, his words have caused stock prices to go up and down (no doubt to the benefit of his friends).
Incidentally, I have a retirement account that I incrementally move money in and out of stock funds, depending on what the market is doing. I don’t do it frequently – only when there are large shorter-term swings or after a long, sustained run in either direction. And, by “incrementally,” I mean that I don’t move more than 10% or so of the money in one shot, barring really unusual circumstances.
After the so-called “Trump rally” had been going long enough that the DJIA was nearing 20k, I got rid of ALL my stock funds in that account. I’m not sure where my first buy point is, numerically or time-wise, but I expect the index will be significantly lower than it now is when that point does come.
I do think there may be further rallying when this or that tax policy goes into effect, increasing profit margins for some period of time. But I also think the gains will be illusory, being lost several times over once DT breaks enough stuff.
Mentally italicize that first sentence, please.
Mentally italicize that first sentence, please.
Mentally italicize that first sentence, please.
actions as opposed to words
The minute he takes the oath of office, he will be in violation of his lease on that property.
The folks responsible for enforcing the terms of the lease are the GSA. Which are part of the executive, and which therefore fall under his oversight.
Such a bureaucratic detail, of course. What harm is done by Trump owning and operating a hotel built in a property leased from the feds?
Really, is this something we want to make such a big deal about?
We’ll probably just make an exception. Nobody wants to make a fuss.
Or, we’ll spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars – or more – of legal and staff time and effort to figure out how to deal with it.
Just to accommodate Trump. Because it’s too hard for him to divest himself of his businesses, as every president for the last couple of generations have done.
He’s our special snowflake. And he’s not even president yet. It’s going to be one freaking mess after another, for the next four years.
actions as opposed to words
The minute he takes the oath of office, he will be in violation of his lease on that property.
The folks responsible for enforcing the terms of the lease are the GSA. Which are part of the executive, and which therefore fall under his oversight.
Such a bureaucratic detail, of course. What harm is done by Trump owning and operating a hotel built in a property leased from the feds?
Really, is this something we want to make such a big deal about?
We’ll probably just make an exception. Nobody wants to make a fuss.
Or, we’ll spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars – or more – of legal and staff time and effort to figure out how to deal with it.
Just to accommodate Trump. Because it’s too hard for him to divest himself of his businesses, as every president for the last couple of generations have done.
He’s our special snowflake. And he’s not even president yet. It’s going to be one freaking mess after another, for the next four years.
actions as opposed to words
The minute he takes the oath of office, he will be in violation of his lease on that property.
The folks responsible for enforcing the terms of the lease are the GSA. Which are part of the executive, and which therefore fall under his oversight.
Such a bureaucratic detail, of course. What harm is done by Trump owning and operating a hotel built in a property leased from the feds?
Really, is this something we want to make such a big deal about?
We’ll probably just make an exception. Nobody wants to make a fuss.
Or, we’ll spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars – or more – of legal and staff time and effort to figure out how to deal with it.
Just to accommodate Trump. Because it’s too hard for him to divest himself of his businesses, as every president for the last couple of generations have done.
He’s our special snowflake. And he’s not even president yet. It’s going to be one freaking mess after another, for the next four years.
There are two things that I would like to see come out of the Trump mess.
1. No exemptions, for anyone in the executive, from the conflict of interest laws found in the US Code.
2. No exemptions, for any member of Congress, from insider trading laws.
To some degree, Trump is really just the apotheosis of BS that has become dead normal in government. But IMO so blatantly in his case that he represents a kind of bright line.
Enough of this self-dealing crap already. We aren’t well served by people who treat public service as a way to make themselves filthy stinking rich.
Consider that a bi-partisan comment if you like.
There are two things that I would like to see come out of the Trump mess.
1. No exemptions, for anyone in the executive, from the conflict of interest laws found in the US Code.
2. No exemptions, for any member of Congress, from insider trading laws.
To some degree, Trump is really just the apotheosis of BS that has become dead normal in government. But IMO so blatantly in his case that he represents a kind of bright line.
Enough of this self-dealing crap already. We aren’t well served by people who treat public service as a way to make themselves filthy stinking rich.
Consider that a bi-partisan comment if you like.
There are two things that I would like to see come out of the Trump mess.
1. No exemptions, for anyone in the executive, from the conflict of interest laws found in the US Code.
2. No exemptions, for any member of Congress, from insider trading laws.
To some degree, Trump is really just the apotheosis of BS that has become dead normal in government. But IMO so blatantly in his case that he represents a kind of bright line.
Enough of this self-dealing crap already. We aren’t well served by people who treat public service as a way to make themselves filthy stinking rich.
Consider that a bi-partisan comment if you like.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
OK, fair enough. I’m also certain talk is not sufficient. But I’m equally certain that talk is valuable, if only to keep reminding ourselves that not all the people who hold opposing views are corrupt or evil, even if their views end up enabling corruption or evildoing. There is a difference, although in practice it’s easy to overlook it. But our humanity, and sense of self, demand of us that we distinguish, even while we continue to fight.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
OK, fair enough. I’m also certain talk is not sufficient. But I’m equally certain that talk is valuable, if only to keep reminding ourselves that not all the people who hold opposing views are corrupt or evil, even if their views end up enabling corruption or evildoing. There is a difference, although in practice it’s easy to overlook it. But our humanity, and sense of self, demand of us that we distinguish, even while we continue to fight.
Key word here is “useful”. Yes, talk is useful for its own ends, however in the current context it is not sufficient.
Maybe never is, but sometimes we can pretend. Not now.
OK, fair enough. I’m also certain talk is not sufficient. But I’m equally certain that talk is valuable, if only to keep reminding ourselves that not all the people who hold opposing views are corrupt or evil, even if their views end up enabling corruption or evildoing. There is a difference, although in practice it’s easy to overlook it. But our humanity, and sense of self, demand of us that we distinguish, even while we continue to fight.
Hardly any of trump’s Cabinet travesties knows shit from sherlock about the lawful missions of the agencies they are about to “fuvk”, pardon me, head up.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/quote-day-lead-what-lead
And the ones who do know all the wrong things and plenty they’ve made up.
Just like the private sector and business run things, am I getting warm? You wanna good lawyer, hire a tow truck driver. You wanna good doctor, hire the guy dribbling into his gin and tonic down at the end of the bar who once gave mouth to mouth to the female bartender against her will. You wanna weather man, hire a scarecrow. You wanna good car mechanic, hire a mime. You wanna new Mayor of Munchkintown, hire a flat witch.
You wanna leader for the most full of shit country in the world (and not only, but a country that idealizes full-of-shitness in reality shows), find the guy who is the most full of shit of all.
At least he’s qualified, unlike the others.
Hardly any of trump’s Cabinet travesties knows shit from sherlock about the lawful missions of the agencies they are about to “fuvk”, pardon me, head up.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/quote-day-lead-what-lead
And the ones who do know all the wrong things and plenty they’ve made up.
Just like the private sector and business run things, am I getting warm? You wanna good lawyer, hire a tow truck driver. You wanna good doctor, hire the guy dribbling into his gin and tonic down at the end of the bar who once gave mouth to mouth to the female bartender against her will. You wanna weather man, hire a scarecrow. You wanna good car mechanic, hire a mime. You wanna new Mayor of Munchkintown, hire a flat witch.
You wanna leader for the most full of shit country in the world (and not only, but a country that idealizes full-of-shitness in reality shows), find the guy who is the most full of shit of all.
At least he’s qualified, unlike the others.
Hardly any of trump’s Cabinet travesties knows shit from sherlock about the lawful missions of the agencies they are about to “fuvk”, pardon me, head up.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/quote-day-lead-what-lead
And the ones who do know all the wrong things and plenty they’ve made up.
Just like the private sector and business run things, am I getting warm? You wanna good lawyer, hire a tow truck driver. You wanna good doctor, hire the guy dribbling into his gin and tonic down at the end of the bar who once gave mouth to mouth to the female bartender against her will. You wanna weather man, hire a scarecrow. You wanna good car mechanic, hire a mime. You wanna new Mayor of Munchkintown, hire a flat witch.
You wanna leader for the most full of shit country in the world (and not only, but a country that idealizes full-of-shitness in reality shows), find the guy who is the most full of shit of all.
At least he’s qualified, unlike the others.
It don’t take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows….
It don’t take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows….
It don’t take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows….
He claimed publicly last week he was putting the finishing touches on his ACA “replacement plan”.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/tactical-methods-for-tricking-president.html
Apparently not.
Talk all youse want, Americans gonna be snuffed out by the tyranny of a grinding state genocide machine that the tyrants find sadistically amusing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_WEvWcVoFw
Is Richard Cheese invited to sing this song over the Inaugural dinner as an appetite stimulant among the ravenous Republican ghouls, I hope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at02Fvdhk2I
I’ll be singing it at karaoke Thursday night.
He claimed publicly last week he was putting the finishing touches on his ACA “replacement plan”.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/tactical-methods-for-tricking-president.html
Apparently not.
Talk all youse want, Americans gonna be snuffed out by the tyranny of a grinding state genocide machine that the tyrants find sadistically amusing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_WEvWcVoFw
Is Richard Cheese invited to sing this song over the Inaugural dinner as an appetite stimulant among the ravenous Republican ghouls, I hope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at02Fvdhk2I
I’ll be singing it at karaoke Thursday night.
He claimed publicly last week he was putting the finishing touches on his ACA “replacement plan”.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/01/tactical-methods-for-tricking-president.html
Apparently not.
Talk all youse want, Americans gonna be snuffed out by the tyranny of a grinding state genocide machine that the tyrants find sadistically amusing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_WEvWcVoFw
Is Richard Cheese invited to sing this song over the Inaugural dinner as an appetite stimulant among the ravenous Republican ghouls, I hope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at02Fvdhk2I
I’ll be singing it at karaoke Thursday night.
that digby post gives a (or another) reason to prefer Trump to Pence – the former’s capacity to screw things up in a single tweet, putting congress in a tail spin for a few days or longer until Trump tweets something else.
Under Pence, he would sign the ACA repeal while in the limo from the Capitol to the White House after his swearing in.
Probably less likely to end up in a nuclear war under Pence though…
that digby post gives a (or another) reason to prefer Trump to Pence – the former’s capacity to screw things up in a single tweet, putting congress in a tail spin for a few days or longer until Trump tweets something else.
Under Pence, he would sign the ACA repeal while in the limo from the Capitol to the White House after his swearing in.
Probably less likely to end up in a nuclear war under Pence though…
that digby post gives a (or another) reason to prefer Trump to Pence – the former’s capacity to screw things up in a single tweet, putting congress in a tail spin for a few days or longer until Trump tweets something else.
Under Pence, he would sign the ACA repeal while in the limo from the Capitol to the White House after his swearing in.
Probably less likely to end up in a nuclear war under Pence though…
I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
McT, thank you for reading the article. This thread here veered off. as it usually does, with some questions about this place here (‘But what does this mean for ObWi?!?!). I’m not bitching about that, I’m a inveterate naval-gazer, that’s probably why I ended up in this corner of the internet. So I’ll toss my 2 cents in here: You/we are not going to have any kind of meaningful talk if we/you don’t make the initial assumption that when someone links to some information, ‘I need to read that before I say something’. Any “talk” begins with actually listening to what the other side is saying. And communication, being imperfect, might mean asking for restatements, clarifications, expansions. And when people, regardless of their political persuasion, don’t do that, there is no talk.
I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
McT, thank you for reading the article. This thread here veered off. as it usually does, with some questions about this place here (‘But what does this mean for ObWi?!?!). I’m not bitching about that, I’m a inveterate naval-gazer, that’s probably why I ended up in this corner of the internet. So I’ll toss my 2 cents in here: You/we are not going to have any kind of meaningful talk if we/you don’t make the initial assumption that when someone links to some information, ‘I need to read that before I say something’. Any “talk” begins with actually listening to what the other side is saying. And communication, being imperfect, might mean asking for restatements, clarifications, expansions. And when people, regardless of their political persuasion, don’t do that, there is no talk.
I thought the Gopnick piece was thoughtful and well presented. The part LJ posts above left me with what I inferred to be the impression left with Marty: a bunch of high profile lefties making a big deal about how they’d never do anything to support the D no matter what, i.e. a bunch of tasteless virtue signaling. There has been plenty of that.
McT, thank you for reading the article. This thread here veered off. as it usually does, with some questions about this place here (‘But what does this mean for ObWi?!?!). I’m not bitching about that, I’m a inveterate naval-gazer, that’s probably why I ended up in this corner of the internet. So I’ll toss my 2 cents in here: You/we are not going to have any kind of meaningful talk if we/you don’t make the initial assumption that when someone links to some information, ‘I need to read that before I say something’. Any “talk” begins with actually listening to what the other side is saying. And communication, being imperfect, might mean asking for restatements, clarifications, expansions. And when people, regardless of their political persuasion, don’t do that, there is no talk.
lj, on my own behalf I want to apologise for my poor thread discipline/etiquette. This is the only blog I have ever commented on (apart from occasional recent comments on cleek’s blog) and I have had to pick up the rules/conventions as I have gone along. I don’t think I acknowledged having read your Gopnik link, which I thought interesting and good, because I didn’t think I had anything worthwhile to say about it, but I realise after reading your comment 06.13 that I had treated your post as an open thread, for which I apologise.
lj, on my own behalf I want to apologise for my poor thread discipline/etiquette. This is the only blog I have ever commented on (apart from occasional recent comments on cleek’s blog) and I have had to pick up the rules/conventions as I have gone along. I don’t think I acknowledged having read your Gopnik link, which I thought interesting and good, because I didn’t think I had anything worthwhile to say about it, but I realise after reading your comment 06.13 that I had treated your post as an open thread, for which I apologise.
lj, on my own behalf I want to apologise for my poor thread discipline/etiquette. This is the only blog I have ever commented on (apart from occasional recent comments on cleek’s blog) and I have had to pick up the rules/conventions as I have gone along. I don’t think I acknowledged having read your Gopnik link, which I thought interesting and good, because I didn’t think I had anything worthwhile to say about it, but I realise after reading your comment 06.13 that I had treated your post as an open thread, for which I apologise.
GftNC, thanks for the apology, but that’s not a problem for me. It’s more trying to take the thread in exactly the opposite direction that I have a problem with. In Geometry terms, if you reverse the direction, you can probably describe the amount of tolerance I have as a number of degrees from the original. No particular problem going 90 degrees from what I wrote, but when folks start getting to 180 degrees, I get a little unhappy ;^)
GftNC, thanks for the apology, but that’s not a problem for me. It’s more trying to take the thread in exactly the opposite direction that I have a problem with. In Geometry terms, if you reverse the direction, you can probably describe the amount of tolerance I have as a number of degrees from the original. No particular problem going 90 degrees from what I wrote, but when folks start getting to 180 degrees, I get a little unhappy ;^)
GftNC, thanks for the apology, but that’s not a problem for me. It’s more trying to take the thread in exactly the opposite direction that I have a problem with. In Geometry terms, if you reverse the direction, you can probably describe the amount of tolerance I have as a number of degrees from the original. No particular problem going 90 degrees from what I wrote, but when folks start getting to 180 degrees, I get a little unhappy ;^)