by G’Kar
With Obama highlighting his living overseas as a child, NRO’s Mark Steyn has once again taken the opportunity to tar the Senator with the ‘madrassah’ smear. I’d like to kill this once and for all, but that is probably too much to ask.
Every kid in the Arabic-speaking goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school. Running about screaming about the horrors of Senator Obama having attended a madrassah is on a par with worrying that Senator Clinton attended junior high. It’s silly, it’s childish, and it makes us look like idiots in the eyes of the Arabic-speaking world. So stop it.
Open thread.
I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.
I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.
I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.
Blame Canada! Blame Canada!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada!
Happy Thanksgiving you guys.
Happy Thanksgiving you guys.
Happy Thanksgiving you guys.
For some people, the whole point is to make us look like idiots to the Arabic-speaking world. We’re good, they’re bad. The more they dislike us, the better we feel about ourselves.
The disturbing thing is that GOPers really believe they can profit by promoting that outlook. Either they are stupid themselves, or they are cynicaly angling for the stupid vote.
— TP
For some people, the whole point is to make us look like idiots to the Arabic-speaking world. We’re good, they’re bad. The more they dislike us, the better we feel about ourselves.
The disturbing thing is that GOPers really believe they can profit by promoting that outlook. Either they are stupid themselves, or they are cynicaly angling for the stupid vote.
— TP
For some people, the whole point is to make us look like idiots to the Arabic-speaking world. We’re good, they’re bad. The more they dislike us, the better we feel about ourselves.
The disturbing thing is that GOPers really believe they can profit by promoting that outlook. Either they are stupid themselves, or they are cynicaly angling for the stupid vote.
— TP
I was disappointed in Obama’s pointing to that period as his most important foreign policy qualification, and I was disappointed in Clinton’s campaign’s knock on that. And Edwards has been even worse. Eagerly looking forward to the end of the primary season.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
I was disappointed in Obama’s pointing to that period as his most important foreign policy qualification, and I was disappointed in Clinton’s campaign’s knock on that. And Edwards has been even worse. Eagerly looking forward to the end of the primary season.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
I was disappointed in Obama’s pointing to that period as his most important foreign policy qualification, and I was disappointed in Clinton’s campaign’s knock on that. And Edwards has been even worse. Eagerly looking forward to the end of the primary season.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Excellent. Best wishes to all in Rilkehaus.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Excellent. Best wishes to all in Rilkehaus.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Excellent. Best wishes to all in Rilkehaus.
Thanks, Jes. Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
Thanks, Jes. Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
Thanks, Jes. Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Just the thought of one of my kids having to have surgery makes me weak in the knees. I suppose I’d get through it, but still…I have a hard time not fretting over their having a somewhat bad cold. It’s always good to hear that something like that is over and all is well. I’m not sure if “congratulations” is quite the right word, but “Congratulations!”
Rilkefan.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Just the thought of one of my kids having to have surgery makes me weak in the knees. I suppose I’d get through it, but still…I have a hard time not fretting over their having a somewhat bad cold. It’s always good to hear that something like that is over and all is well. I’m not sure if “congratulations” is quite the right word, but “Congratulations!”
Rilkefan.
In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.
Just the thought of one of my kids having to have surgery makes me weak in the knees. I suppose I’d get through it, but still…I have a hard time not fretting over their having a somewhat bad cold. It’s always good to hear that something like that is over and all is well. I’m not sure if “congratulations” is quite the right word, but “Congratulations!”
Rilkefan.
So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia. BFD. I don’t recall that Indonesia was a hotbed of radical Islam back then, but I could be wrong about that. Certainly, though, far too many years have passed in order for that to be of any concern.
I also don’t care about Obama’s drug use. Bully for him for admitting it upfront.
So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia. BFD. I don’t recall that Indonesia was a hotbed of radical Islam back then, but I could be wrong about that. Certainly, though, far too many years have passed in order for that to be of any concern.
I also don’t care about Obama’s drug use. Bully for him for admitting it upfront.
So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia. BFD. I don’t recall that Indonesia was a hotbed of radical Islam back then, but I could be wrong about that. Certainly, though, far too many years have passed in order for that to be of any concern.
I also don’t care about Obama’s drug use. Bully for him for admitting it upfront.
Please excuse the random return at the end. That’s to Rilkefan, not from Rilkefan.
Please excuse the random return at the end. That’s to Rilkefan, not from Rilkefan.
Please excuse the random return at the end. That’s to Rilkefan, not from Rilkefan.
Glad to hear it rilke. Can’t imagine the anxiety that must produce.
As for this:
It’s silly, it’s childish, and it makes us look like idiots in the eyes of the Arabic-speaking world.
The “it” in that sentence could either be:
A. The Corner
B. Mark Steyn
C. The Bush administration.
I’m even offering a “D” – all of the above.
Glad to hear it rilke. Can’t imagine the anxiety that must produce.
As for this:
It’s silly, it’s childish, and it makes us look like idiots in the eyes of the Arabic-speaking world.
The “it” in that sentence could either be:
A. The Corner
B. Mark Steyn
C. The Bush administration.
I’m even offering a “D” – all of the above.
Glad to hear it rilke. Can’t imagine the anxiety that must produce.
As for this:
It’s silly, it’s childish, and it makes us look like idiots in the eyes of the Arabic-speaking world.
The “it” in that sentence could either be:
A. The Corner
B. Mark Steyn
C. The Bush administration.
I’m even offering a “D” – all of the above.
I’m glad to hear that the Rilkekid will be home for TDay.
Obama went to a Catholic parochial school, too.
Well there is no reasoning with some people!
I’m glad to hear that the Rilkekid will be home for TDay.
Obama went to a Catholic parochial school, too.
Well there is no reasoning with some people!
I’m glad to hear that the Rilkekid will be home for TDay.
Obama went to a Catholic parochial school, too.
Well there is no reasoning with some people!
Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
Get rained on, mostly. And look forward to next month, when we’ll overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives, meantime giving and receiving presents we do not want. Never mind. My dad just had an operation on his eye, and I was suffering the most awful qualms between when he told me and when it was clear he was really recovered and doing well, which I imagine is a low percentage of the qualms of a parent – so I’ll be having a private thanksgiving this week, regardless of weather.
Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
Get rained on, mostly. And look forward to next month, when we’ll overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives, meantime giving and receiving presents we do not want. Never mind. My dad just had an operation on his eye, and I was suffering the most awful qualms between when he told me and when it was clear he was really recovered and doing well, which I imagine is a low percentage of the qualms of a parent – so I’ll be having a private thanksgiving this week, regardless of weather.
Hope you’re enjoying whatever one does in your neck of the woods this time of year instead of traveling in awful traffic to overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives.
Get rained on, mostly. And look forward to next month, when we’ll overeat and drink too much and quarrel with the relatives, meantime giving and receiving presents we do not want. Never mind. My dad just had an operation on his eye, and I was suffering the most awful qualms between when he told me and when it was clear he was really recovered and doing well, which I imagine is a low percentage of the qualms of a parent – so I’ll be having a private thanksgiving this week, regardless of weather.
Rilkefan:
That’s great news about Rilkekind! I hope things continue improving. My best wishes.
Publius: “is on a par with worrying that Senator Clinton attended junior high.”
By November 1 of next year, there will be pictures of Hillary posted by the usual suspects depicting her naked at make-out parties sporting all manner of battery-powered devices, and grainy video of her as 8th-grade class President imposing a tax on the cafeteria cupcakes to finance the gummint-run yearbook.
More seriously, there is a meme developing among the worst the country has to offer, which will gain traction as the election approaches, that the gigantic mortgage credit crisis, which has been “securitized” worldwide as untransparently as possible by the free market effing geniuses on Wall Street, and is killing the banks and other financials, is …. the Democrat’s fault, particularly whoever is the Democratic candidate.
And, that the turmoil in the markets is not because of this crisis, but because the markets (in other words, the geniuses on Wall Street) are scared senseless by the prospect of a Democratic President.
Some will answer that the market “knows” the future and prices accordingly and is never surprised by reality. Really, then how come the market knew nothing about Countrywide Credit’s balance sheet the day before its stock started cratering? If the market is so prescient, tell me the level of the DJIA on February 1, 2008, since the market has transmitted this information to the favored few.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Believe me, all of you, including the doomsayers who comment here, own this unpriceable paper somehow, somewhere.
All of that, natch, while the corrupt republican party has wielded the levers of power at Treasury and the Fed by proxy for the past seven years.
It will work, because by next year the American people will be so ripely bent over for demagoguery that they will look to a thug like Guiliani (who shares with Bin Laden delicious thankfulness for 9/11) or the other Republican candidates for punishment, because that is what they peddle.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks. Ditto for the Democrats in Congress.
You now see, on FOX and CNBC, guests on financial shows and the Mussolini talk-show venues touting new, alternate American currencies to the dollar, abolishing the Federal Reserve, all manner of Ron Paul extremist horsepuckey.
In other words, lubing up the electorate for what they hope is the final blow against liberal vermin and gummint.
Over to you, Bill.
postscript: You may also use this comment as a signal that the stock market has bottomed, given my track record, which is terrible, but on a par with the geniuses on Wall Street, not to mention everyone else.
Sorry, back to Bill for the regularly scheduled programming.
Rilkefan:
That’s great news about Rilkekind! I hope things continue improving. My best wishes.
Publius: “is on a par with worrying that Senator Clinton attended junior high.”
By November 1 of next year, there will be pictures of Hillary posted by the usual suspects depicting her naked at make-out parties sporting all manner of battery-powered devices, and grainy video of her as 8th-grade class President imposing a tax on the cafeteria cupcakes to finance the gummint-run yearbook.
More seriously, there is a meme developing among the worst the country has to offer, which will gain traction as the election approaches, that the gigantic mortgage credit crisis, which has been “securitized” worldwide as untransparently as possible by the free market effing geniuses on Wall Street, and is killing the banks and other financials, is …. the Democrat’s fault, particularly whoever is the Democratic candidate.
And, that the turmoil in the markets is not because of this crisis, but because the markets (in other words, the geniuses on Wall Street) are scared senseless by the prospect of a Democratic President.
Some will answer that the market “knows” the future and prices accordingly and is never surprised by reality. Really, then how come the market knew nothing about Countrywide Credit’s balance sheet the day before its stock started cratering? If the market is so prescient, tell me the level of the DJIA on February 1, 2008, since the market has transmitted this information to the favored few.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Believe me, all of you, including the doomsayers who comment here, own this unpriceable paper somehow, somewhere.
All of that, natch, while the corrupt republican party has wielded the levers of power at Treasury and the Fed by proxy for the past seven years.
It will work, because by next year the American people will be so ripely bent over for demagoguery that they will look to a thug like Guiliani (who shares with Bin Laden delicious thankfulness for 9/11) or the other Republican candidates for punishment, because that is what they peddle.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks. Ditto for the Democrats in Congress.
You now see, on FOX and CNBC, guests on financial shows and the Mussolini talk-show venues touting new, alternate American currencies to the dollar, abolishing the Federal Reserve, all manner of Ron Paul extremist horsepuckey.
In other words, lubing up the electorate for what they hope is the final blow against liberal vermin and gummint.
Over to you, Bill.
postscript: You may also use this comment as a signal that the stock market has bottomed, given my track record, which is terrible, but on a par with the geniuses on Wall Street, not to mention everyone else.
Sorry, back to Bill for the regularly scheduled programming.
Rilkefan:
That’s great news about Rilkekind! I hope things continue improving. My best wishes.
Publius: “is on a par with worrying that Senator Clinton attended junior high.”
By November 1 of next year, there will be pictures of Hillary posted by the usual suspects depicting her naked at make-out parties sporting all manner of battery-powered devices, and grainy video of her as 8th-grade class President imposing a tax on the cafeteria cupcakes to finance the gummint-run yearbook.
More seriously, there is a meme developing among the worst the country has to offer, which will gain traction as the election approaches, that the gigantic mortgage credit crisis, which has been “securitized” worldwide as untransparently as possible by the free market effing geniuses on Wall Street, and is killing the banks and other financials, is …. the Democrat’s fault, particularly whoever is the Democratic candidate.
And, that the turmoil in the markets is not because of this crisis, but because the markets (in other words, the geniuses on Wall Street) are scared senseless by the prospect of a Democratic President.
Some will answer that the market “knows” the future and prices accordingly and is never surprised by reality. Really, then how come the market knew nothing about Countrywide Credit’s balance sheet the day before its stock started cratering? If the market is so prescient, tell me the level of the DJIA on February 1, 2008, since the market has transmitted this information to the favored few.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Believe me, all of you, including the doomsayers who comment here, own this unpriceable paper somehow, somewhere.
All of that, natch, while the corrupt republican party has wielded the levers of power at Treasury and the Fed by proxy for the past seven years.
It will work, because by next year the American people will be so ripely bent over for demagoguery that they will look to a thug like Guiliani (who shares with Bin Laden delicious thankfulness for 9/11) or the other Republican candidates for punishment, because that is what they peddle.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks. Ditto for the Democrats in Congress.
You now see, on FOX and CNBC, guests on financial shows and the Mussolini talk-show venues touting new, alternate American currencies to the dollar, abolishing the Federal Reserve, all manner of Ron Paul extremist horsepuckey.
In other words, lubing up the electorate for what they hope is the final blow against liberal vermin and gummint.
Over to you, Bill.
postscript: You may also use this comment as a signal that the stock market has bottomed, given my track record, which is terrible, but on a par with the geniuses on Wall Street, not to mention everyone else.
Sorry, back to Bill for the regularly scheduled programming.
I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.
Mostly, he seems to be poking fun at Obama’s feeble grab at foreign policy credentials, which is kind of a headscratcher considering the incumbent’s foreign-policy experience prior to gaining office.
So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.
I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.
Mostly, he seems to be poking fun at Obama’s feeble grab at foreign policy credentials, which is kind of a headscratcher considering the incumbent’s foreign-policy experience prior to gaining office.
So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.
I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.
Mostly, he seems to be poking fun at Obama’s feeble grab at foreign policy credentials, which is kind of a headscratcher considering the incumbent’s foreign-policy experience prior to gaining office.
So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Turkey, again.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks.
Warriors nothing. They haven’t even risen to the level of hall monitors.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Turkey, again.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks.
Warriors nothing. They haven’t even risen to the level of hall monitors.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Also, what am I having for dinner next Wednesday?
Turkey, again.
Parenthetically, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have been pathetic warriors against these folks.
Warriors nothing. They haven’t even risen to the level of hall monitors.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
On-topic: With this and the Romney thing in the last couple of days, I’m starting to wonder whether NRO is trying to become a gossip rag.
Off-topic: I just wanted to wish everyone here a happy Thanskgiving, and thank you all for your congeniality to a newcomer. There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community. Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.
On-topic: With this and the Romney thing in the last couple of days, I’m starting to wonder whether NRO is trying to become a gossip rag.
Off-topic: I just wanted to wish everyone here a happy Thanskgiving, and thank you all for your congeniality to a newcomer. There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community. Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.
On-topic: With this and the Romney thing in the last couple of days, I’m starting to wonder whether NRO is trying to become a gossip rag.
Off-topic: I just wanted to wish everyone here a happy Thanskgiving, and thank you all for your congeniality to a newcomer. There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community. Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.
And the cheese-eating surrender monkeys send their kids to ecoles, where they’re brainwashed into loving Jerry Lewis and worshiping some demon named Dieu.
And the cheese-eating surrender monkeys send their kids to ecoles, where they’re brainwashed into loving Jerry Lewis and worshiping some demon named Dieu.
And the cheese-eating surrender monkeys send their kids to ecoles, where they’re brainwashed into loving Jerry Lewis and worshiping some demon named Dieu.
Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.
I could be wrong, though. Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.
I could be wrong, though. Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.
I could be wrong, though. Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
But Thanksgiving was last month…
Oh, wait, you guys must be in the US. Okay, have a happy Thanksgiving everyone.
But Thanksgiving was last month…
Oh, wait, you guys must be in the US. Okay, have a happy Thanksgiving everyone.
But Thanksgiving was last month…
Oh, wait, you guys must be in the US. Okay, have a happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a lack of serious lower G-I repurcussions!
Particular good wishes to the Rilkekind and haus-hold.
Regarding political coverage in these h ere United States: Remember when I used to complain that watching the news on TV was like watching an indoctrination channel for children? That would be an improvement over what’s going on now. I have no idea what the deal is. Possibly it’s all a great big goof, experimenting to see just how completely idiotic they can get before no one watches them anymore.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a lack of serious lower G-I repurcussions!
Particular good wishes to the Rilkekind and haus-hold.
Regarding political coverage in these h ere United States: Remember when I used to complain that watching the news on TV was like watching an indoctrination channel for children? That would be an improvement over what’s going on now. I have no idea what the deal is. Possibly it’s all a great big goof, experimenting to see just how completely idiotic they can get before no one watches them anymore.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a lack of serious lower G-I repurcussions!
Particular good wishes to the Rilkekind and haus-hold.
Regarding political coverage in these h ere United States: Remember when I used to complain that watching the news on TV was like watching an indoctrination channel for children? That would be an improvement over what’s going on now. I have no idea what the deal is. Possibly it’s all a great big goof, experimenting to see just how completely idiotic they can get before no one watches them anymore.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
which maybe shows how f’ing stupid, an intentionally xenophobic and racist, the original reference was in the first place.
good ol’ GOP – always making me regret giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to overt racism.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
which maybe shows how f’ing stupid, an intentionally xenophobic and racist, the original reference was in the first place.
good ol’ GOP – always making me regret giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to overt racism.
I think that if Steyn had said: “Ah, the school years”, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.
which maybe shows how f’ing stupid, an intentionally xenophobic and racist, the original reference was in the first place.
good ol’ GOP – always making me regret giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to overt racism.
Hilzoy: Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
Do these same people pointedly refer to Hilary Rodham Clinton?
Hilzoy: Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
Do these same people pointedly refer to Hilary Rodham Clinton?
Hilzoy: Likewise, I suppose that when the same people pointedly call him Barack HUSSEIN Obama, they could just be in favor of using people’s full names.
Do these same people pointedly refer to Hilary Rodham Clinton?
I have to admit that this sounds like a tempest in a teapot to me. The point of the tiny post seemed to be that Obama’s basis for foreign policy experience is lame. And since that basis had to do with his time overseas as a school kid, the use of “madrassa” gets the overseas part and the school kid part in one word. Of course, I don’t claim to know what was in the author’s head. And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.
I have to admit that this sounds like a tempest in a teapot to me. The point of the tiny post seemed to be that Obama’s basis for foreign policy experience is lame. And since that basis had to do with his time overseas as a school kid, the use of “madrassa” gets the overseas part and the school kid part in one word. Of course, I don’t claim to know what was in the author’s head. And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.
I have to admit that this sounds like a tempest in a teapot to me. The point of the tiny post seemed to be that Obama’s basis for foreign policy experience is lame. And since that basis had to do with his time overseas as a school kid, the use of “madrassa” gets the overseas part and the school kid part in one word. Of course, I don’t claim to know what was in the author’s head. And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.
I should probably learn to spell madrassah too.
I should probably learn to spell madrassah too.
I should probably learn to spell madrassah too.
Since I will probably be busy all day tomorrow serving as sous-chef and then doing the washing after the meal, allow me to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
Since I will probably be busy all day tomorrow serving as sous-chef and then doing the washing after the meal, allow me to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
Since I will probably be busy all day tomorrow serving as sous-chef and then doing the washing after the meal, allow me to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
I don’t think there’s an official English spelling for the word, you can probably use either spelling.
The “madrassa” smear must be having some effect, my aged mother repeated it to me anxiously a few months ago. Sigh.
I don’t think there’s an official English spelling for the word, you can probably use either spelling.
The “madrassa” smear must be having some effect, my aged mother repeated it to me anxiously a few months ago. Sigh.
I don’t think there’s an official English spelling for the word, you can probably use either spelling.
The “madrassa” smear must be having some effect, my aged mother repeated it to me anxiously a few months ago. Sigh.
Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.
Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.
Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.
Looking at my last two posts together, I should perhaps clarify that nobody to my knowledge has referred to my mother as Hillary Rodham Clinton. 🙂
Looking at my last two posts together, I should perhaps clarify that nobody to my knowledge has referred to my mother as Hillary Rodham Clinton. 🙂
Looking at my last two posts together, I should perhaps clarify that nobody to my knowledge has referred to my mother as Hillary Rodham Clinton. 🙂
“I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.”
Also a plagiarist.
But, after all, I’m a dhimmi.
Tony P.:
It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid. They’ve defined themselves by defining the Enemy as the communists, the radicals, the anarchists, the bombers, the strikers, the foreign-speaking, the foreign-born, the poor, since the late 1800s.
Sometimes it’s the Chinese, or the Japanese, and the Yellow Peril. Sometimes it’s swarthy southern Europeans. Sometimes it’s Slavs and Eastern Europeans and Russians. Sometimes it’s Mexicans and Latin American types. Once it was Indians.
Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.
The fear vote is always big.
What else is new?
“In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.”
Most excellent to hear.
“So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia.”
Indonesian public school. They don’t, in fact, speak Arabic (as a national language) in Indonesia. Who knew?
In other words, no, there’s no truth to the claim that Obama went to a “madrassa.” Sheesh.
I appreciate G’Kar’s efforts, and point, but it seems to me that this is not a small point that should be overlooked and unstated. Indonesian public schools aren’t called “madrassas.” Period. What they call things in Arab-speaking countries thousands of miles away isn’t exactly the most salient fact.
For what it’s worth, beyond what it’s called:
Not Islamic, and not Arab, either.
“I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.”
Mentioning what? The false claim that he went to a “madrassa”? Yeah, I tend to think that “mentioning” lies, as in “passing them on,” rather than pointing out that they are false, should be verboten. You?
“So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
You’re saying Steyn wasn’t deliberately trying to say that Obama is one a them crypto-Muslims, who we know deny Our Lord Jesus Christ?
If so, I’m afraid that you’re once again being impossibly naive.
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart?
“I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.”
Also a plagiarist.
But, after all, I’m a dhimmi.
Tony P.:
It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid. They’ve defined themselves by defining the Enemy as the communists, the radicals, the anarchists, the bombers, the strikers, the foreign-speaking, the foreign-born, the poor, since the late 1800s.
Sometimes it’s the Chinese, or the Japanese, and the Yellow Peril. Sometimes it’s swarthy southern Europeans. Sometimes it’s Slavs and Eastern Europeans and Russians. Sometimes it’s Mexicans and Latin American types. Once it was Indians.
Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.
The fear vote is always big.
What else is new?
“In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.”
Most excellent to hear.
“So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia.”
Indonesian public school. They don’t, in fact, speak Arabic (as a national language) in Indonesia. Who knew?
In other words, no, there’s no truth to the claim that Obama went to a “madrassa.” Sheesh.
I appreciate G’Kar’s efforts, and point, but it seems to me that this is not a small point that should be overlooked and unstated. Indonesian public schools aren’t called “madrassas.” Period. What they call things in Arab-speaking countries thousands of miles away isn’t exactly the most salient fact.
For what it’s worth, beyond what it’s called:
Not Islamic, and not Arab, either.
“I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.”
Mentioning what? The false claim that he went to a “madrassa”? Yeah, I tend to think that “mentioning” lies, as in “passing them on,” rather than pointing out that they are false, should be verboten. You?
“So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
You’re saying Steyn wasn’t deliberately trying to say that Obama is one a them crypto-Muslims, who we know deny Our Lord Jesus Christ?
If so, I’m afraid that you’re once again being impossibly naive.
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart?
“I think worldwide health, peace and a-pony-for-every-child is likely to come about sooner than Mark Steyn ceasing to be an idiot.”
Also a plagiarist.
But, after all, I’m a dhimmi.
Tony P.:
It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid. They’ve defined themselves by defining the Enemy as the communists, the radicals, the anarchists, the bombers, the strikers, the foreign-speaking, the foreign-born, the poor, since the late 1800s.
Sometimes it’s the Chinese, or the Japanese, and the Yellow Peril. Sometimes it’s swarthy southern Europeans. Sometimes it’s Slavs and Eastern Europeans and Russians. Sometimes it’s Mexicans and Latin American types. Once it was Indians.
Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.
The fear vote is always big.
What else is new?
“In other news, Rilkekind had his surgery and is back from the hospital presumably cured and everything’s fine in the Rilkehaus.”
Most excellent to hear.
“So, Obama went to a madrassa back in the early ’70s in Indonesia.”
Indonesian public school. They don’t, in fact, speak Arabic (as a national language) in Indonesia. Who knew?
In other words, no, there’s no truth to the claim that Obama went to a “madrassa.” Sheesh.
I appreciate G’Kar’s efforts, and point, but it seems to me that this is not a small point that should be overlooked and unstated. Indonesian public schools aren’t called “madrassas.” Period. What they call things in Arab-speaking countries thousands of miles away isn’t exactly the most salient fact.
For what it’s worth, beyond what it’s called:
Not Islamic, and not Arab, either.
“I don’t see all that much in the way of tarring, G’Kar, unless mentioning it is strictly verboten.”
Mentioning what? The false claim that he went to a “madrassa”? Yeah, I tend to think that “mentioning” lies, as in “passing them on,” rather than pointing out that they are false, should be verboten. You?
“So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
You’re saying Steyn wasn’t deliberately trying to say that Obama is one a them crypto-Muslims, who we know deny Our Lord Jesus Christ?
If so, I’m afraid that you’re once again being impossibly naive.
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart?
“There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community.”
It isn’t? Why not?
Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a “web-community” is (or “web community: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
“Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.”
What’s your favorite blog off the web?
Hilzoy: “Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.”
I’m completely baffled that no one seems to feel it’s worth pointing out that you’re talking about a “translation” from an irrelevant language. Wtf does what the word “school” means in Arabic have to do with Obama growing up in Indonesia, except as a smear, pray tell?
“There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community.”
It isn’t? Why not?
Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a “web-community” is (or “web community: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
“Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.”
What’s your favorite blog off the web?
Hilzoy: “Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.”
I’m completely baffled that no one seems to feel it’s worth pointing out that you’re talking about a “translation” from an irrelevant language. Wtf does what the word “school” means in Arabic have to do with Obama growing up in Indonesia, except as a smear, pray tell?
“There are so many insightful and thoughtful bloggers and commenters here that I find myself wishing it were a web-community.”
It isn’t? Why not?
Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a “web-community” is (or “web community: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
“Even so, it’s my favorite blog on the web.”
What’s your favorite blog off the web?
Hilzoy: “Slarti: I think that using ‘madrassa’ rather than the translation, ‘school’, and doing it on purpose, counts as a smear.”
I’m completely baffled that no one seems to feel it’s worth pointing out that you’re talking about a “translation” from an irrelevant language. Wtf does what the word “school” means in Arabic have to do with Obama growing up in Indonesia, except as a smear, pray tell?
If Obama gets the nomination, the GOP will have 30% of the country believing he’s a muslim by April and another 10% by August. This is part of why he won’t win. The other part is that he’s black.
Welcome to America.
If Obama gets the nomination, the GOP will have 30% of the country believing he’s a muslim by April and another 10% by August. This is part of why he won’t win. The other part is that he’s black.
Welcome to America.
If Obama gets the nomination, the GOP will have 30% of the country believing he’s a muslim by April and another 10% by August. This is part of why he won’t win. The other part is that he’s black.
Welcome to America.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
“I think that if Steyn had said: ‘Ah, the school years’, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.”
Quite so. What’s your point?
“I think that if Steyn had said: ‘Ah, the school years’, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.”
Quite so. What’s your point?
“I think that if Steyn had said: ‘Ah, the school years’, readers would be left wondering what the hell he was referring to.”
Quite so. What’s your point?
Valid point, Gary. I confess I was curious if, in fact, Obama went to a madrassah at all, but since Muslim nations often use Arabic to some degree because the Quran isn’t to be translated, I didn’t bother to check.
Still, the use of madrassah to imply something horrific still peeves me. It’s a bloody school.
Valid point, Gary. I confess I was curious if, in fact, Obama went to a madrassah at all, but since Muslim nations often use Arabic to some degree because the Quran isn’t to be translated, I didn’t bother to check.
Still, the use of madrassah to imply something horrific still peeves me. It’s a bloody school.
Valid point, Gary. I confess I was curious if, in fact, Obama went to a madrassah at all, but since Muslim nations often use Arabic to some degree because the Quran isn’t to be translated, I didn’t bother to check.
Still, the use of madrassah to imply something horrific still peeves me. It’s a bloody school.
“Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.”
? You don’t get that there are still lots of people out there who think that a woman who doesn’t change her name when she marries, or still uses her maiden name in some way, is some kinda hippie freak lesbian communist liberal who went to Woodstock, and would wear jeans in the White House while having group sex and hanging crack pipes on the Christmas tree, which is actually a Muslim tree?
“Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.”
? You don’t get that there are still lots of people out there who think that a woman who doesn’t change her name when she marries, or still uses her maiden name in some way, is some kinda hippie freak lesbian communist liberal who went to Woodstock, and would wear jeans in the White House while having group sex and hanging crack pipes on the Christmas tree, which is actually a Muslim tree?
“Oddly, many people opposed to her DO habitually refer to her as Hillary Rodham Clinton. I have no idea why.”
? You don’t get that there are still lots of people out there who think that a woman who doesn’t change her name when she marries, or still uses her maiden name in some way, is some kinda hippie freak lesbian communist liberal who went to Woodstock, and would wear jeans in the White House while having group sex and hanging crack pipes on the Christmas tree, which is actually a Muslim tree?
Gary Farber: en fuego
Gary Farber: en fuego
Gary Farber: en fuego
As support for my 1:57pm, I give you, The Poorman Institute for Freedom and Democracy and a Pony.
As support for my 1:57pm, I give you, The Poorman Institute for Freedom and Democracy and a Pony.
As support for my 1:57pm, I give you, The Poorman Institute for Freedom and Democracy and a Pony.
I meant to include, and it fell out, a couple of sentences linking this to the discussion of Reagan and Philadelphia/Neshoba, Mississippi. But the finding of a new domestic enemy in “radical Black revolutionaries” and “civil rights leaders,” as J. Edgar Hoover, and Richard Nixon did in the Sixties (Hoover was on it in the Fifties, actually, and I hope that youngersters aren’t unaware of COINTELPRO), and in Nixon’s adoption of the Southern Strategy, wasn’t just incidentally part of this longer history and context.
I meant to include, and it fell out, a couple of sentences linking this to the discussion of Reagan and Philadelphia/Neshoba, Mississippi. But the finding of a new domestic enemy in “radical Black revolutionaries” and “civil rights leaders,” as J. Edgar Hoover, and Richard Nixon did in the Sixties (Hoover was on it in the Fifties, actually, and I hope that youngersters aren’t unaware of COINTELPRO), and in Nixon’s adoption of the Southern Strategy, wasn’t just incidentally part of this longer history and context.
I meant to include, and it fell out, a couple of sentences linking this to the discussion of Reagan and Philadelphia/Neshoba, Mississippi. But the finding of a new domestic enemy in “radical Black revolutionaries” and “civil rights leaders,” as J. Edgar Hoover, and Richard Nixon did in the Sixties (Hoover was on it in the Fifties, actually, and I hope that youngersters aren’t unaware of COINTELPRO), and in Nixon’s adoption of the Southern Strategy, wasn’t just incidentally part of this longer history and context.
Wait…I thought “madrassa” just meant “school”. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?
Wait…I thought “madrassa” just meant “school”. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?
Wait…I thought “madrassa” just meant “school”. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?
But, y’know, if it’s not a madrassa, I’m ok with that. G’kar’s post said madrassa is the same as school, so I rolled with that. If it isn’t, possibly he ought to post a correction.
But, y’know, if it’s not a madrassa, I’m ok with that. G’kar’s post said madrassa is the same as school, so I rolled with that. If it isn’t, possibly he ought to post a correction.
But, y’know, if it’s not a madrassa, I’m ok with that. G’kar’s post said madrassa is the same as school, so I rolled with that. If it isn’t, possibly he ought to post a correction.
“Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a ‘web-community’ is (or ‘web community’: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
I meant “web-community” as a sort of software, or a common set of features (like user blogs and threaded comments). Maybe I should have said, “wishing that the site had more community software features”. That would have probably needed scare quotes though, because people exchanging ideas is a feature of a community.
As to hyphens: what-ever.
“Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a ‘web-community’ is (or ‘web community’: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
I meant “web-community” as a sort of software, or a common set of features (like user blogs and threaded comments). Maybe I should have said, “wishing that the site had more community software features”. That would have probably needed scare quotes though, because people exchanging ideas is a feature of a community.
As to hyphens: what-ever.
“Seriously, I’m wondering what your definition of a ‘web-community’ is (or ‘web community’: the hyphen seems unnecessary). I trust you’re not confusing it with some particular type of software?
I meant “web-community” as a sort of software, or a common set of features (like user blogs and threaded comments). Maybe I should have said, “wishing that the site had more community software features”. That would have probably needed scare quotes though, because people exchanging ideas is a feature of a community.
As to hyphens: what-ever.
Slarti, let me try and explain:
madrassa does mean school in arabic so it would be correct to say that Obama attended a madrassa IF he actually went to school in a foreign country where arabic was a native language.
However, Obama went to school in Indonesia. Arabic is not the predominant language in that country. Saying that Obama attended a Madrassa is like saying he attended an Escuela: in some narrow pedantic sense, that’s correct, but the overall statement is incredibly deceitful.
Slarti, let me try and explain:
madrassa does mean school in arabic so it would be correct to say that Obama attended a madrassa IF he actually went to school in a foreign country where arabic was a native language.
However, Obama went to school in Indonesia. Arabic is not the predominant language in that country. Saying that Obama attended a Madrassa is like saying he attended an Escuela: in some narrow pedantic sense, that’s correct, but the overall statement is incredibly deceitful.
Slarti, let me try and explain:
madrassa does mean school in arabic so it would be correct to say that Obama attended a madrassa IF he actually went to school in a foreign country where arabic was a native language.
However, Obama went to school in Indonesia. Arabic is not the predominant language in that country. Saying that Obama attended a Madrassa is like saying he attended an Escuela: in some narrow pedantic sense, that’s correct, but the overall statement is incredibly deceitful.
“Wait…I thought ‘madrassa’ just meant ‘school’. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
“Madrassa” means “school” in Arabic. You’re saying that when we refer to Barack Obama’s public elementary school, we should refer to it in Arabic?
Why?
“Wait…I thought ‘madrassa’ just meant ‘school’. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
“Madrassa” means “school” in Arabic. You’re saying that when we refer to Barack Obama’s public elementary school, we should refer to it in Arabic?
Why?
“Wait…I thought ‘madrassa’ just meant ‘school’. You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
“Madrassa” means “school” in Arabic. You’re saying that when we refer to Barack Obama’s public elementary school, we should refer to it in Arabic?
Why?
No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
No, I get that, Turbulence. And Gary. And whoever else manages to point it out before I respond, but: this post of G’Kar’s talks about how madrassa and school mean the same thing. It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa.
Which, believe it or not, is something I didn’t know, or particularly care about.
No, I get that, Turbulence. And Gary. And whoever else manages to point it out before I respond, but: this post of G’Kar’s talks about how madrassa and school mean the same thing. It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa.
Which, believe it or not, is something I didn’t know, or particularly care about.
No, I get that, Turbulence. And Gary. And whoever else manages to point it out before I respond, but: this post of G’Kar’s talks about how madrassa and school mean the same thing. It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa.
Which, believe it or not, is something I didn’t know, or particularly care about.
Impossibly naive as that might seem. I guess you’re going to have to take my word for it.
Impossibly naive as that might seem. I guess you’re going to have to take my word for it.
Impossibly naive as that might seem. I guess you’re going to have to take my word for it.
“No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.”
Slart, I replied to your comment “You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
Could you please explain to me why this is a perfectly fine form for you to use, but when I reply using it, you object and assert that it’s “putting words in [your] mouth”?
Thanks.
Next, could you please answer the question, just as I answered yours?
Next, could you please explain why it is that you chose to respond by saying “No, I’m not saying that, Gary,” and not include what you are saying?
And maybe, to especially enlighten us, might you choose to bother to explain what, then, you are saying?
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart? Why do you refer to Obama’s public school using the Arabic word?
You started off asserting that Steyn was “So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
Were you or were you not saying that Steyn wasn’t trying to say Obama went to an Islamic school?
Thanks muchly.
“No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.”
Slart, I replied to your comment “You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
Could you please explain to me why this is a perfectly fine form for you to use, but when I reply using it, you object and assert that it’s “putting words in [your] mouth”?
Thanks.
Next, could you please answer the question, just as I answered yours?
Next, could you please explain why it is that you chose to respond by saying “No, I’m not saying that, Gary,” and not include what you are saying?
And maybe, to especially enlighten us, might you choose to bother to explain what, then, you are saying?
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart? Why do you refer to Obama’s public school using the Arabic word?
You started off asserting that Steyn was “So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
Were you or were you not saying that Steyn wasn’t trying to say Obama went to an Islamic school?
Thanks muchly.
“No, I’m not saying that, Gary. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.”
Slart, I replied to your comment “You’re saying he didn’t go to school?”
Could you please explain to me why this is a perfectly fine form for you to use, but when I reply using it, you object and assert that it’s “putting words in [your] mouth”?
Thanks.
Next, could you please answer the question, just as I answered yours?
Next, could you please explain why it is that you chose to respond by saying “No, I’m not saying that, Gary,” and not include what you are saying?
And maybe, to especially enlighten us, might you choose to bother to explain what, then, you are saying?
Why are you claiming falsely that Obama went to a madrassa, Slart? Why do you refer to Obama’s public school using the Arabic word?
You started off asserting that Steyn was “So, stupid. But stupid in a different direction than you’re pointing.”
Were you or were you not saying that Steyn wasn’t trying to say Obama went to an Islamic school?
Thanks muchly.
You didn’t know or particularly care that you don’t normally speak Arabic?
Could you perhaps rephrase? What, exactly, is the thing that you did not know? “It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa”: what is the thing that “is not actually called a madrassa”? There’s no coherent antecedent in what you wrote, I’m afraid: “madrassa and school” isn’t an object, which makes this paragraph a bit incomprehensible.
You didn’t know or particularly care that you don’t normally speak Arabic?
Could you perhaps rephrase? What, exactly, is the thing that you did not know? “It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa”: what is the thing that “is not actually called a madrassa”? There’s no coherent antecedent in what you wrote, I’m afraid: “madrassa and school” isn’t an object, which makes this paragraph a bit incomprehensible.
You didn’t know or particularly care that you don’t normally speak Arabic?
Could you perhaps rephrase? What, exactly, is the thing that you did not know? “It doesn’t talk about how it’s not actually called a madrassa”: what is the thing that “is not actually called a madrassa”? There’s no coherent antecedent in what you wrote, I’m afraid: “madrassa and school” isn’t an object, which makes this paragraph a bit incomprehensible.
This is what you said, Gary:
I invite you to show me where I said that. It shouldn’t be hard to find, or fail to find. Meanwhile, you can consider that foreign language words make it into common use in other languages all the time, and if you look into the Indonesian language, you’ll find that one such source of foreign words is Arabic.
Which is not at all uncommon. I’m not saying that has happened, but it’s a possibility that has you putting words into my mouth.
This is what you said, Gary:
I invite you to show me where I said that. It shouldn’t be hard to find, or fail to find. Meanwhile, you can consider that foreign language words make it into common use in other languages all the time, and if you look into the Indonesian language, you’ll find that one such source of foreign words is Arabic.
Which is not at all uncommon. I’m not saying that has happened, but it’s a possibility that has you putting words into my mouth.
This is what you said, Gary:
I invite you to show me where I said that. It shouldn’t be hard to find, or fail to find. Meanwhile, you can consider that foreign language words make it into common use in other languages all the time, and if you look into the Indonesian language, you’ll find that one such source of foreign words is Arabic.
Which is not at all uncommon. I’m not saying that has happened, but it’s a possibility that has you putting words into my mouth.
There are lots of questions. Which one are you referring to, in this instance?
There are lots of questions. Which one are you referring to, in this instance?
There are lots of questions. Which one are you referring to, in this instance?
…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.
…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.
…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.
Slarti, this is kooky-bizarre.
Our previous exchange:
I didn’t write “Obama didnt’ go to school,” either.
Why on earth are you objecting to a form of response you just used?
Are you feeling all right?
Slarti, this is kooky-bizarre.
Our previous exchange:
I didn’t write “Obama didnt’ go to school,” either.
Why on earth are you objecting to a form of response you just used?
Are you feeling all right?
Slarti, this is kooky-bizarre.
Our previous exchange:
I didn’t write “Obama didnt’ go to school,” either.
Why on earth are you objecting to a form of response you just used?
Are you feeling all right?
“I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.”
Wow, you come on, perpetuate a vicious lie about Obama, repeat it, argue that there’s nothing wrong with it, question that anyone is doing any such thing, then demand that I not engage in ordinary rhetoric identical to yours (“you’re saying that…?”), and then say you have to run.
Wonderful.
“Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
I’ll be sitting here alone, with no family, and no local friends to eat with, desperately worrying about running out of money in a couple of weeks, and putting off writing a post about it, while also remembering to give thanks for the good things in my life, and around us, actually.
But I’m perfectly and absolutely sincere in wishing you, and everyone who will celebrate it, a happy Thanksgiving, of course. Rolling one’s eyes over someone’s rhetorical style, and naivity, are trivial.
“I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.”
Wow, you come on, perpetuate a vicious lie about Obama, repeat it, argue that there’s nothing wrong with it, question that anyone is doing any such thing, then demand that I not engage in ordinary rhetoric identical to yours (“you’re saying that…?”), and then say you have to run.
Wonderful.
“Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
I’ll be sitting here alone, with no family, and no local friends to eat with, desperately worrying about running out of money in a couple of weeks, and putting off writing a post about it, while also remembering to give thanks for the good things in my life, and around us, actually.
But I’m perfectly and absolutely sincere in wishing you, and everyone who will celebrate it, a happy Thanksgiving, of course. Rolling one’s eyes over someone’s rhetorical style, and naivity, are trivial.
“I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.”
Wow, you come on, perpetuate a vicious lie about Obama, repeat it, argue that there’s nothing wrong with it, question that anyone is doing any such thing, then demand that I not engage in ordinary rhetoric identical to yours (“you’re saying that…?”), and then say you have to run.
Wonderful.
“Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
I’ll be sitting here alone, with no family, and no local friends to eat with, desperately worrying about running out of money in a couple of weeks, and putting off writing a post about it, while also remembering to give thanks for the good things in my life, and around us, actually.
But I’m perfectly and absolutely sincere in wishing you, and everyone who will celebrate it, a happy Thanksgiving, of course. Rolling one’s eyes over someone’s rhetorical style, and naivity, are trivial.
Whoops, I apologize for referring to Publius rather than G’Kar as the author of this post.
Hillary Rodham Clinton
They are practicing for when they announce her name in the impeachment proceedings.
I remember the gusto with which the late, but not nearly late enough, Robert Bartley and the Wall Street Journal editorial page would intone “William Jefferson Clinton” back in the last century. A narrator of that loathsome editorial page would sound like the dramatic newsreel voice-over in “Citizen Kane” ….
John Foster Kane.
Whoops, I apologize for referring to Publius rather than G’Kar as the author of this post.
Hillary Rodham Clinton
They are practicing for when they announce her name in the impeachment proceedings.
I remember the gusto with which the late, but not nearly late enough, Robert Bartley and the Wall Street Journal editorial page would intone “William Jefferson Clinton” back in the last century. A narrator of that loathsome editorial page would sound like the dramatic newsreel voice-over in “Citizen Kane” ….
John Foster Kane.
Whoops, I apologize for referring to Publius rather than G’Kar as the author of this post.
Hillary Rodham Clinton
They are practicing for when they announce her name in the impeachment proceedings.
I remember the gusto with which the late, but not nearly late enough, Robert Bartley and the Wall Street Journal editorial page would intone “William Jefferson Clinton” back in the last century. A narrator of that loathsome editorial page would sound like the dramatic newsreel voice-over in “Citizen Kane” ….
John Foster Kane.
I appreciate all the good wishes above. I should note how thankful I am that Mrs. R. and I were each able to take three days off work, that her mother could come out here for over a week to help, that we have insurance, that we can afford to live near a great children’s hospital, and on and on. Many many families aren’t nearly as lucky as us.
I appreciate all the good wishes above. I should note how thankful I am that Mrs. R. and I were each able to take three days off work, that her mother could come out here for over a week to help, that we have insurance, that we can afford to live near a great children’s hospital, and on and on. Many many families aren’t nearly as lucky as us.
I appreciate all the good wishes above. I should note how thankful I am that Mrs. R. and I were each able to take three days off work, that her mother could come out here for over a week to help, that we have insurance, that we can afford to live near a great children’s hospital, and on and on. Many many families aren’t nearly as lucky as us.
Ulysses Gustavus Holmes
Ulysses Gustavus Holmes
Ulysses Gustavus Holmes
From wikipedia:
The word [madrassa] is also present as a loanword with the same innocuous meaning [i.e place of learning] in many Arabic-influenced languages such as Urdu, Hindi, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish, Indonesian, Malay and Bosnian.
Which leads me to ask about something I’ve never understood. Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
From wikipedia:
The word [madrassa] is also present as a loanword with the same innocuous meaning [i.e place of learning] in many Arabic-influenced languages such as Urdu, Hindi, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish, Indonesian, Malay and Bosnian.
Which leads me to ask about something I’ve never understood. Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
From wikipedia:
The word [madrassa] is also present as a loanword with the same innocuous meaning [i.e place of learning] in many Arabic-influenced languages such as Urdu, Hindi, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish, Indonesian, Malay and Bosnian.
Which leads me to ask about something I’ve never understood. Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
Yay for the rilkekind! Speedy recovery to the rilkehaus, and Happy Thanksgiving to one and all, even you heathens who don’t celebrate it (:
Yay for the rilkekind! Speedy recovery to the rilkehaus, and Happy Thanksgiving to one and all, even you heathens who don’t celebrate it (:
Yay for the rilkekind! Speedy recovery to the rilkehaus, and Happy Thanksgiving to one and all, even you heathens who don’t celebrate it (:
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
Yay rilkekind!
Yay rilkekind!
Yay rilkekind!
Mike: Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
For much the same reason as the Dáil Éireann is called the Dáil and not the Lower House.
Countries that were until extremely recently ruled by Britain tend to make a point of using the proper name in their own language for their own government, rather than backsliding into English even if everyone speaks it.
(Plus, with the Irish there’s the joy of listening to BBC commentators fall over themselves trying to pronounce Taoiseach and Oireachtas correctly.)
Mike: Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
For much the same reason as the Dáil Éireann is called the Dáil and not the Lower House.
Countries that were until extremely recently ruled by Britain tend to make a point of using the proper name in their own language for their own government, rather than backsliding into English even if everyone speaks it.
(Plus, with the Irish there’s the joy of listening to BBC commentators fall over themselves trying to pronounce Taoiseach and Oireachtas correctly.)
Mike: Why is it that every other parliamentary democracy in the whole bloody world has a parliament, but Israel’s is always called the K’nesset?
For much the same reason as the Dáil Éireann is called the Dáil and not the Lower House.
Countries that were until extremely recently ruled by Britain tend to make a point of using the proper name in their own language for their own government, rather than backsliding into English even if everyone speaks it.
(Plus, with the Irish there’s the joy of listening to BBC commentators fall over themselves trying to pronounce Taoiseach and Oireachtas correctly.)
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
It’s fairly common to read and hear of the Russian Duma, as well.
Those who pay attention refer to the Islandic Althing, although admittedly that’s not a huge number of people. On a mildly larger scale, Spain has the Cortes Generales.
Only because I’m a fount of trivia do I know that the Isle of Man has the Tynwald, and Norway the Storting. The Iranian Majlis is in the news quite a bit, though.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
It’s fairly common to read and hear of the Russian Duma, as well.
Those who pay attention refer to the Islandic Althing, although admittedly that’s not a huge number of people. On a mildly larger scale, Spain has the Cortes Generales.
Only because I’m a fount of trivia do I know that the Isle of Man has the Tynwald, and Norway the Storting. The Iranian Majlis is in the news quite a bit, though.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
It’s fairly common to read and hear of the Russian Duma, as well.
Those who pay attention refer to the Islandic Althing, although admittedly that’s not a huge number of people. On a mildly larger scale, Spain has the Cortes Generales.
Only because I’m a fount of trivia do I know that the Isle of Man has the Tynwald, and Norway the Storting. The Iranian Majlis is in the news quite a bit, though.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
I also have always wanted to know if you can get a good knish at the Knesset.
And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
Good points, Gary.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
You might be right. What’s even more amusing is when an American reporter, talking about the Bundestag, for whatever reason, mentions the name of the building where that assembly meets. “It’s called the Reichstagsgebäude? Reichstag? Bundestag? Who won the last World War, anyway?”
Good points, Gary.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
You might be right. What’s even more amusing is when an American reporter, talking about the Bundestag, for whatever reason, mentions the name of the building where that assembly meets. “It’s called the Reichstagsgebäude? Reichstag? Bundestag? Who won the last World War, anyway?”
Good points, Gary.
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
You might be right. What’s even more amusing is when an American reporter, talking about the Bundestag, for whatever reason, mentions the name of the building where that assembly meets. “It’s called the Reichstagsgebäude? Reichstag? Bundestag? Who won the last World War, anyway?”
great news Rilkefan. At some point over the weekend, I’ll put up a thread at TiO about dealing with kids being sick, for everyone to rabbit on about their experiences, something that parents love to do and non-parents often roll their eyes at.
great news Rilkefan. At some point over the weekend, I’ll put up a thread at TiO about dealing with kids being sick, for everyone to rabbit on about their experiences, something that parents love to do and non-parents often roll their eyes at.
great news Rilkefan. At some point over the weekend, I’ll put up a thread at TiO about dealing with kids being sick, for everyone to rabbit on about their experiences, something that parents love to do and non-parents often roll their eyes at.
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
Congratulations. You have now grasped the point of the repeated association of “Obama” with “Madrassa”.
It is to place and reinforce into the minds of low-information voters a connection between “Barack Hussein Obama” (black, suspiciously Muslim Name) and “Islam” — which, in those same low-information minds, means “terrorism”.
That’s the entire point of it. It’s not sloppy English. It’s a deliberate and repeated attempt to make sure everyone NOT paying attention has the subconcious belief (or outright worry) that Obama is sympathetic to our “enemies” — if not one outright.
It’s the usual dog-whistle politics.
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
Congratulations. You have now grasped the point of the repeated association of “Obama” with “Madrassa”.
It is to place and reinforce into the minds of low-information voters a connection between “Barack Hussein Obama” (black, suspiciously Muslim Name) and “Islam” — which, in those same low-information minds, means “terrorism”.
That’s the entire point of it. It’s not sloppy English. It’s a deliberate and repeated attempt to make sure everyone NOT paying attention has the subconcious belief (or outright worry) that Obama is sympathetic to our “enemies” — if not one outright.
It’s the usual dog-whistle politics.
I didn’t think for a long time that the whole Obama is a Muslim and went to a Madrasa thing didn’t stick but I’ve met two people in the past two weeks who were convinced that he was a Muslim. It’s weird. Perhaps things like this only work on the uninformed. People see the smear and accept it but never pay attention for the follow up and retraction.
Congratulations. You have now grasped the point of the repeated association of “Obama” with “Madrassa”.
It is to place and reinforce into the minds of low-information voters a connection between “Barack Hussein Obama” (black, suspiciously Muslim Name) and “Islam” — which, in those same low-information minds, means “terrorism”.
That’s the entire point of it. It’s not sloppy English. It’s a deliberate and repeated attempt to make sure everyone NOT paying attention has the subconcious belief (or outright worry) that Obama is sympathetic to our “enemies” — if not one outright.
It’s the usual dog-whistle politics.
Mike: And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
Apparently they’re famous for fried fish rather than sausages.
Mike: And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
Apparently they’re famous for fried fish rather than sausages.
Mike: And what *did* they eat at the Diet of Worms?
Apparently they’re famous for fried fish rather than sausages.
I was unaware that Obama didn’t actually go to a school which it would be customary to refer to as a madrassa. I didn’t question it because I wouldn’t care much if he did. I’m sure lots of perfectly decent people have gone to such schools. If it’s not true, it’s not true, and a journalist should know before writing it. Under such circumstances, I would be more likely to question his or her motives.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
I was only referring to the linked post, so my being aware of the national campaign was neither here nor there. I know this campaign may be huge, freaking and national, but I had been only vaguely aware of it between changing diapers, working, doing laundry, washing dishes, bathing children, and sometimes (not nearly enough) sleeping. Wake up, indeed.
I was unaware that Obama didn’t actually go to a school which it would be customary to refer to as a madrassa. I didn’t question it because I wouldn’t care much if he did. I’m sure lots of perfectly decent people have gone to such schools. If it’s not true, it’s not true, and a journalist should know before writing it. Under such circumstances, I would be more likely to question his or her motives.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
I was only referring to the linked post, so my being aware of the national campaign was neither here nor there. I know this campaign may be huge, freaking and national, but I had been only vaguely aware of it between changing diapers, working, doing laundry, washing dishes, bathing children, and sometimes (not nearly enough) sleeping. Wake up, indeed.
I was unaware that Obama didn’t actually go to a school which it would be customary to refer to as a madrassa. I didn’t question it because I wouldn’t care much if he did. I’m sure lots of perfectly decent people have gone to such schools. If it’s not true, it’s not true, and a journalist should know before writing it. Under such circumstances, I would be more likely to question his or her motives.
“And I agree that any smear attempt based on Obama’s attending a madrassa is utterly stupid. I’m just not sure that this is such a thing.”
Oh, for god’s sakes. They’ve been running a huge freaking national campaign for months. It’s been on since January, and even earlier. Wake up.
I was only referring to the linked post, so my being aware of the national campaign was neither here nor there. I know this campaign may be huge, freaking and national, but I had been only vaguely aware of it between changing diapers, working, doing laundry, washing dishes, bathing children, and sometimes (not nearly enough) sleeping. Wake up, indeed.
Well, generally speaking ‘madrassa’ is Arabic for ‘school’. However, I have found it to have a politico-religious connotation (although only ambiguously so) in situations of politico-linguistic tensions. In Algeria in the 1920s-1930s for example, if you spoke of an ‘école’ you probably meant a French-language school in the colonial system. If you spoke of a ‘madrassa’ you might well be referring to the Arabic-language Quranic (among other subject) schools run by religious scholars (sorta) in opposition to the colonial system.
Since the Arabic language is so tightly enmeshed in the Islamic religion, in certain situations the use of an arabic word can therefore have deliberate connotation.
Indonesia and Pakistan, as largely Islamic, multi-ethnic, multi-linguistic countries with obvious Arab cultural and Arabic cultural influences, might well exhibit the same phenomenon.
That said, it seems from the CNN program someone cited above that Obama did not attend anything that might remotely be called a ‘madrassa’ outside the Arabic world, so it’s purely of academic interest anyway.
Bear in mind the Algerian example I gave above is very ambiguous in any case, because if the person in question did not speak French, or did not speak Arabic, they would presumably use ‘madrassa’ or ‘ecole’ exclusively. Only in certain situations might it signify something more.
Someone familiar with Indonesia should obviously help is out, as we’re all just pontificating otherwise.
In sum, G’Kar’s initial point stands – this is a cretanous xenophobic stunt that doesn’t even make sense when translated into an Arabic-speaking context.
Well, generally speaking ‘madrassa’ is Arabic for ‘school’. However, I have found it to have a politico-religious connotation (although only ambiguously so) in situations of politico-linguistic tensions. In Algeria in the 1920s-1930s for example, if you spoke of an ‘école’ you probably meant a French-language school in the colonial system. If you spoke of a ‘madrassa’ you might well be referring to the Arabic-language Quranic (among other subject) schools run by religious scholars (sorta) in opposition to the colonial system.
Since the Arabic language is so tightly enmeshed in the Islamic religion, in certain situations the use of an arabic word can therefore have deliberate connotation.
Indonesia and Pakistan, as largely Islamic, multi-ethnic, multi-linguistic countries with obvious Arab cultural and Arabic cultural influences, might well exhibit the same phenomenon.
That said, it seems from the CNN program someone cited above that Obama did not attend anything that might remotely be called a ‘madrassa’ outside the Arabic world, so it’s purely of academic interest anyway.
Bear in mind the Algerian example I gave above is very ambiguous in any case, because if the person in question did not speak French, or did not speak Arabic, they would presumably use ‘madrassa’ or ‘ecole’ exclusively. Only in certain situations might it signify something more.
Someone familiar with Indonesia should obviously help is out, as we’re all just pontificating otherwise.
In sum, G’Kar’s initial point stands – this is a cretanous xenophobic stunt that doesn’t even make sense when translated into an Arabic-speaking context.
Well, generally speaking ‘madrassa’ is Arabic for ‘school’. However, I have found it to have a politico-religious connotation (although only ambiguously so) in situations of politico-linguistic tensions. In Algeria in the 1920s-1930s for example, if you spoke of an ‘école’ you probably meant a French-language school in the colonial system. If you spoke of a ‘madrassa’ you might well be referring to the Arabic-language Quranic (among other subject) schools run by religious scholars (sorta) in opposition to the colonial system.
Since the Arabic language is so tightly enmeshed in the Islamic religion, in certain situations the use of an arabic word can therefore have deliberate connotation.
Indonesia and Pakistan, as largely Islamic, multi-ethnic, multi-linguistic countries with obvious Arab cultural and Arabic cultural influences, might well exhibit the same phenomenon.
That said, it seems from the CNN program someone cited above that Obama did not attend anything that might remotely be called a ‘madrassa’ outside the Arabic world, so it’s purely of academic interest anyway.
Bear in mind the Algerian example I gave above is very ambiguous in any case, because if the person in question did not speak French, or did not speak Arabic, they would presumably use ‘madrassa’ or ‘ecole’ exclusively. Only in certain situations might it signify something more.
Someone familiar with Indonesia should obviously help is out, as we’re all just pontificating otherwise.
In sum, G’Kar’s initial point stands – this is a cretanous xenophobic stunt that doesn’t even make sense when translated into an Arabic-speaking context.
One should not be surprised at this. It’s part of the American psyche that continually wants to paint foreigners as the Other..and a Dangerous Other at that.
That brush has been tarring Chinese Americans, German Americans, Irish Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans (again!) and so forth….so it should not be surprising that it’s trotted out again and aimed at an American (and that it’s still working…)
One should not be surprised at this. It’s part of the American psyche that continually wants to paint foreigners as the Other..and a Dangerous Other at that.
That brush has been tarring Chinese Americans, German Americans, Irish Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans (again!) and so forth….so it should not be surprising that it’s trotted out again and aimed at an American (and that it’s still working…)
One should not be surprised at this. It’s part of the American psyche that continually wants to paint foreigners as the Other..and a Dangerous Other at that.
That brush has been tarring Chinese Americans, German Americans, Irish Americans, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans (again!) and so forth….so it should not be surprising that it’s trotted out again and aimed at an American (and that it’s still working…)
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Yep. Excerpts from ‘the madrassa and me’ by one sharp guy with roots in Bangladesh who has actually attended a Madrassa, and who now runs a popular scientific website:
“The schedule:
4:30 AM wake up, “read” Koran.
5:30 AM perform dawn prayer.
5:45 AM keep reading.
6:00 AM eat breakfast.
6:30 AM keep reading.
11:00 AM lunch.
11:30 AM sleep for siesta.
2:00 PM keep reading.
7:00 PM dinner.
7:30 PM sunset prayer.
8:00 PM keep reading.
10:30 PM last prayer.
11:00 PM sleep.
…and repeat.
A few points. I left out two day prayers.”
Thus the thriving aerospace industry in Islamic countries.
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001892.html
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Yep. Excerpts from ‘the madrassa and me’ by one sharp guy with roots in Bangladesh who has actually attended a Madrassa, and who now runs a popular scientific website:
“The schedule:
4:30 AM wake up, “read” Koran.
5:30 AM perform dawn prayer.
5:45 AM keep reading.
6:00 AM eat breakfast.
6:30 AM keep reading.
11:00 AM lunch.
11:30 AM sleep for siesta.
2:00 PM keep reading.
7:00 PM dinner.
7:30 PM sunset prayer.
8:00 PM keep reading.
10:30 PM last prayer.
11:00 PM sleep.
…and repeat.
A few points. I left out two day prayers.”
Thus the thriving aerospace industry in Islamic countries.
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001892.html
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Yep. Excerpts from ‘the madrassa and me’ by one sharp guy with roots in Bangladesh who has actually attended a Madrassa, and who now runs a popular scientific website:
“The schedule:
4:30 AM wake up, “read” Koran.
5:30 AM perform dawn prayer.
5:45 AM keep reading.
6:00 AM eat breakfast.
6:30 AM keep reading.
11:00 AM lunch.
11:30 AM sleep for siesta.
2:00 PM keep reading.
7:00 PM dinner.
7:30 PM sunset prayer.
8:00 PM keep reading.
10:30 PM last prayer.
11:00 PM sleep.
…and repeat.
A few points. I left out two day prayers.”
Thus the thriving aerospace industry in Islamic countries.
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001892.html
And on the open thread track, don’t worry John. Freddie Mac has a core capital valuation of $36.6 billion, magically $0.6 billion above the minimum amount required by regulators to hold. Surely no engineered accounting there. The share price has dropped over 50% in the last twenty days though. The $36 billion of assets represents less than 1% of Freddie Mac’s exposure. Real estate prices are down 30-40% from their peak in many markets.
I wrote the link below on October 29th, before a major American institution lost half of its value. Compare with today’s Wall Street Journal cover. I don’t get no respect:
http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2007/09/freddie-mac.html
And on the open thread track, don’t worry John. Freddie Mac has a core capital valuation of $36.6 billion, magically $0.6 billion above the minimum amount required by regulators to hold. Surely no engineered accounting there. The share price has dropped over 50% in the last twenty days though. The $36 billion of assets represents less than 1% of Freddie Mac’s exposure. Real estate prices are down 30-40% from their peak in many markets.
I wrote the link below on October 29th, before a major American institution lost half of its value. Compare with today’s Wall Street Journal cover. I don’t get no respect:
http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2007/09/freddie-mac.html
And on the open thread track, don’t worry John. Freddie Mac has a core capital valuation of $36.6 billion, magically $0.6 billion above the minimum amount required by regulators to hold. Surely no engineered accounting there. The share price has dropped over 50% in the last twenty days though. The $36 billion of assets represents less than 1% of Freddie Mac’s exposure. Real estate prices are down 30-40% from their peak in many markets.
I wrote the link below on October 29th, before a major American institution lost half of its value. Compare with today’s Wall Street Journal cover. I don’t get no respect:
http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2007/09/freddie-mac.html
“I don’t get no respect”
That’s because you talk only to yourself, aren’t responsive to others, engage in constant non-sequiturs, cite phony sources, cite phony statistics, and your only responses are to mix and match the above. As we know, I can provide cites to all of this, but when I do you — big surprise here — don’t respond!
Result: why would anyone bother repeating the experience of trying to engage you? You follow the pattern of a troll.
“I don’t get no respect”
That’s because you talk only to yourself, aren’t responsive to others, engage in constant non-sequiturs, cite phony sources, cite phony statistics, and your only responses are to mix and match the above. As we know, I can provide cites to all of this, but when I do you — big surprise here — don’t respond!
Result: why would anyone bother repeating the experience of trying to engage you? You follow the pattern of a troll.
“I don’t get no respect”
That’s because you talk only to yourself, aren’t responsive to others, engage in constant non-sequiturs, cite phony sources, cite phony statistics, and your only responses are to mix and match the above. As we know, I can provide cites to all of this, but when I do you — big surprise here — don’t respond!
Result: why would anyone bother repeating the experience of trying to engage you? You follow the pattern of a troll.
In response to Uhg waaay up thread: I don’t thinnk Obama’s skin color works against him. Sure, lots of Americans are racists, but the worst ones won’t vote Democratic anyway. There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one. Many, many Americans are afraid of this. The corportsate press, for example, has been kind to Obama (the madraqssa swear wqs debucked by ABC and CNN). Why? Because the decisionmakers for the corprotate media don’t know how to smear him without appearng to be racist. Race works for Obama, not against him.
AS for the “Obama is Muslim”, scare tactic: well, some people will believe that, but people who are that stupid are going to vote Republican anyway. The smear won’t influence normal people, especially if the MSM is afraid to promote it.
In response to Uhg waaay up thread: I don’t thinnk Obama’s skin color works against him. Sure, lots of Americans are racists, but the worst ones won’t vote Democratic anyway. There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one. Many, many Americans are afraid of this. The corportsate press, for example, has been kind to Obama (the madraqssa swear wqs debucked by ABC and CNN). Why? Because the decisionmakers for the corprotate media don’t know how to smear him without appearng to be racist. Race works for Obama, not against him.
AS for the “Obama is Muslim”, scare tactic: well, some people will believe that, but people who are that stupid are going to vote Republican anyway. The smear won’t influence normal people, especially if the MSM is afraid to promote it.
In response to Uhg waaay up thread: I don’t thinnk Obama’s skin color works against him. Sure, lots of Americans are racists, but the worst ones won’t vote Democratic anyway. There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one. Many, many Americans are afraid of this. The corportsate press, for example, has been kind to Obama (the madraqssa swear wqs debucked by ABC and CNN). Why? Because the decisionmakers for the corprotate media don’t know how to smear him without appearng to be racist. Race works for Obama, not against him.
AS for the “Obama is Muslim”, scare tactic: well, some people will believe that, but people who are that stupid are going to vote Republican anyway. The smear won’t influence normal people, especially if the MSM is afraid to promote it.
OK Gary;
You got me on the 5,000 Englishmen leaving per week. I wasn’t able to find the article and had to substitute an updated article noting that something like 4,000 Englishmen leave per week. I can’t account for the difference. Perhaps one article referred to an annual average and the other to some peak. I don’t know.
Other than that, I think I’m pretty clean. I should monitor these threads more closely. Here I am, take your best shot.
OK Gary;
You got me on the 5,000 Englishmen leaving per week. I wasn’t able to find the article and had to substitute an updated article noting that something like 4,000 Englishmen leave per week. I can’t account for the difference. Perhaps one article referred to an annual average and the other to some peak. I don’t know.
Other than that, I think I’m pretty clean. I should monitor these threads more closely. Here I am, take your best shot.
OK Gary;
You got me on the 5,000 Englishmen leaving per week. I wasn’t able to find the article and had to substitute an updated article noting that something like 4,000 Englishmen leave per week. I can’t account for the difference. Perhaps one article referred to an annual average and the other to some peak. I don’t know.
Other than that, I think I’m pretty clean. I should monitor these threads more closely. Here I am, take your best shot.
There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one.
Which lasts right up until one gets into the anonymity of the voting booth.
Race works against Obama. Period.
There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one.
Which lasts right up until one gets into the anonymity of the voting booth.
Race works against Obama. Period.
There is, however, another pwerful force in our society: fear of being called a racist or being perceived as one.
Which lasts right up until one gets into the anonymity of the voting booth.
Race works against Obama. Period.
Goodnight Gary. Have a good Thanksgiving, never forget what it represents.
Goodnight Gary. Have a good Thanksgiving, never forget what it represents.
Goodnight Gary. Have a good Thanksgiving, never forget what it represents.
I just wanted to wish all you wonderful people a happy T-day, but it sounds like some of you are already practicing for the snipe-fests with your relatives. Chill out, kiddos! Save the ammo for the evil wingnuts!
I just wanted to wish all you wonderful people a happy T-day, but it sounds like some of you are already practicing for the snipe-fests with your relatives. Chill out, kiddos! Save the ammo for the evil wingnuts!
I just wanted to wish all you wonderful people a happy T-day, but it sounds like some of you are already practicing for the snipe-fests with your relatives. Chill out, kiddos! Save the ammo for the evil wingnuts!
When I was growing up, I attended a madrassa. At least my parents referred to it as a madrassa. Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa. That is all.
When I was growing up, I attended a madrassa. At least my parents referred to it as a madrassa. Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa. That is all.
When I was growing up, I attended a madrassa. At least my parents referred to it as a madrassa. Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa. That is all.
Bill,
OK I give up, what does thanksgiving represent? And why should Gary in particular be enjoined to never forget that?
Does Gary strike you as insufficiently thankful? Is he insufficiently devoted to our state religion of thankfulness?
Bill,
OK I give up, what does thanksgiving represent? And why should Gary in particular be enjoined to never forget that?
Does Gary strike you as insufficiently thankful? Is he insufficiently devoted to our state religion of thankfulness?
Bill,
OK I give up, what does thanksgiving represent? And why should Gary in particular be enjoined to never forget that?
Does Gary strike you as insufficiently thankful? Is he insufficiently devoted to our state religion of thankfulness?
Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa.
That actually seems like a poor example, given that you attended a religious school…
Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa.
That actually seems like a poor example, given that you attended a religious school…
Since the school was a catholic school run by an order of monks and since my parents were Christian immigrants from the middle east, I think we can conclude that: people who speak arabic refer to schools using the arabic word madrassa.
That actually seems like a poor example, given that you attended a religious school…
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school. Take it for what it’s worth.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school. Take it for what it’s worth.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school. Take it for what it’s worth.
Gary Farber | November 21, 2007 at 05:32 PM
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
It is apparently often overlooked that the German parliament also consists of the Bundesrat. That would be analogous to the US Senate, as originally envisoned, i.e., the representatives of the states in the federal parliament. The Bundesrat is intended to protect the interests of the states (“Laender”) but has far less jurisdiction over matters than the US Senate.
Gary Farber | November 21, 2007 at 05:32 PM
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
It is apparently often overlooked that the German parliament also consists of the Bundesrat. That would be analogous to the US Senate, as originally envisoned, i.e., the representatives of the states in the federal parliament. The Bundesrat is intended to protect the interests of the states (“Laender”) but has far less jurisdiction over matters than the US Senate.
Gary Farber | November 21, 2007 at 05:32 PM
Probably the next most common such reference in Western journalism, though, is to the Bundestag, don’t you think?
It is apparently often overlooked that the German parliament also consists of the Bundesrat. That would be analogous to the US Senate, as originally envisoned, i.e., the representatives of the states in the federal parliament. The Bundesrat is intended to protect the interests of the states (“Laender”) but has far less jurisdiction over matters than the US Senate.
I’m certainly no expert, and I welcome correction, but in the online dictionaries I’ve checked “madrasah” in Indonesian is defined as “Islamic school” or “religious school”, whereas plain “school” is “sekolah”.
It’s not surprising that a borrowing might have connotations different from those the word had in its original language. For example, “sombrero” means “hat” in Spanish, but in English it means a particular kind of hat.
And of course in English “madrassa” seems to mean something like “school run by Islamic extremists”, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.
I’m certainly no expert, and I welcome correction, but in the online dictionaries I’ve checked “madrasah” in Indonesian is defined as “Islamic school” or “religious school”, whereas plain “school” is “sekolah”.
It’s not surprising that a borrowing might have connotations different from those the word had in its original language. For example, “sombrero” means “hat” in Spanish, but in English it means a particular kind of hat.
And of course in English “madrassa” seems to mean something like “school run by Islamic extremists”, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.
I’m certainly no expert, and I welcome correction, but in the online dictionaries I’ve checked “madrasah” in Indonesian is defined as “Islamic school” or “religious school”, whereas plain “school” is “sekolah”.
It’s not surprising that a borrowing might have connotations different from those the word had in its original language. For example, “sombrero” means “hat” in Spanish, but in English it means a particular kind of hat.
And of course in English “madrassa” seems to mean something like “school run by Islamic extremists”, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school.
Yes, I’m not the world’s most sophisticated Arabic speaker by any stretch, but I agree.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school.
Yes, I’m not the world’s most sophisticated Arabic speaker by any stretch, but I agree.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school.
Yes, I’m not the world’s most sophisticated Arabic speaker by any stretch, but I agree.
Yes, but what is the point of saying “madrassah just means ‘school’ in Arabic”? (Some Americans are unsophisticated enough not to know that “Allah” just means “God” in Arabic!)
Obama went to an elementary school in Indonesia: that school would have included many Muslim schoolchildren, but as it was not an Islamic school or a religious school, it would not have been called a madrassah, but (as KCinDC just pointed out) a sekolah – just as
P.S. 193 Gil Hodges School in Brooklyn isn’t called a madrassah just because many of the kids who go there are Muslims.
Trying to argue that this is not a smear is like trying to argue that bringing up how much John Edwards’ haircuts cost is not a smear. Sure, all the candidates undoubtedly have expensive haircuts, but only John Edwards’ haircuts are made an issue, because that’s the tactic for smearing Edwards.
All of the candidates went to an elementary school in their youth (unless they were homeschooled!) – but only Obama’s elementary school gets referred to as a madrassah, because that’s the tactic for smearing Obama.
It doesn’t matter that, in a right-minded person’s eyes, it’s not a smear to say that John Edwards pays the person who cuts his hair a good fee to come and cut his hair on the campaign trail, or that a decent person would no more object to having a Muslim for President than they’d object to having a woman for President. The fact is: there are people who would be unalterably prejudiced against having a Muslim for President, and who can be conned into thinking that Obama is a Muslim by the word “madrassah”: just as there are people who are unalterably prejudiced against having a woman for President, and who come out with anti-female comments about Clinton rather than criticizing her substantively.
Yes, but what is the point of saying “madrassah just means ‘school’ in Arabic”? (Some Americans are unsophisticated enough not to know that “Allah” just means “God” in Arabic!)
Obama went to an elementary school in Indonesia: that school would have included many Muslim schoolchildren, but as it was not an Islamic school or a religious school, it would not have been called a madrassah, but (as KCinDC just pointed out) a sekolah – just as
P.S. 193 Gil Hodges School in Brooklyn isn’t called a madrassah just because many of the kids who go there are Muslims.
Trying to argue that this is not a smear is like trying to argue that bringing up how much John Edwards’ haircuts cost is not a smear. Sure, all the candidates undoubtedly have expensive haircuts, but only John Edwards’ haircuts are made an issue, because that’s the tactic for smearing Edwards.
All of the candidates went to an elementary school in their youth (unless they were homeschooled!) – but only Obama’s elementary school gets referred to as a madrassah, because that’s the tactic for smearing Obama.
It doesn’t matter that, in a right-minded person’s eyes, it’s not a smear to say that John Edwards pays the person who cuts his hair a good fee to come and cut his hair on the campaign trail, or that a decent person would no more object to having a Muslim for President than they’d object to having a woman for President. The fact is: there are people who would be unalterably prejudiced against having a Muslim for President, and who can be conned into thinking that Obama is a Muslim by the word “madrassah”: just as there are people who are unalterably prejudiced against having a woman for President, and who come out with anti-female comments about Clinton rather than criticizing her substantively.
Yes, but what is the point of saying “madrassah just means ‘school’ in Arabic”? (Some Americans are unsophisticated enough not to know that “Allah” just means “God” in Arabic!)
Obama went to an elementary school in Indonesia: that school would have included many Muslim schoolchildren, but as it was not an Islamic school or a religious school, it would not have been called a madrassah, but (as KCinDC just pointed out) a sekolah – just as
P.S. 193 Gil Hodges School in Brooklyn isn’t called a madrassah just because many of the kids who go there are Muslims.
Trying to argue that this is not a smear is like trying to argue that bringing up how much John Edwards’ haircuts cost is not a smear. Sure, all the candidates undoubtedly have expensive haircuts, but only John Edwards’ haircuts are made an issue, because that’s the tactic for smearing Edwards.
All of the candidates went to an elementary school in their youth (unless they were homeschooled!) – but only Obama’s elementary school gets referred to as a madrassah, because that’s the tactic for smearing Obama.
It doesn’t matter that, in a right-minded person’s eyes, it’s not a smear to say that John Edwards pays the person who cuts his hair a good fee to come and cut his hair on the campaign trail, or that a decent person would no more object to having a Muslim for President than they’d object to having a woman for President. The fact is: there are people who would be unalterably prejudiced against having a Muslim for President, and who can be conned into thinking that Obama is a Muslim by the word “madrassah”: just as there are people who are unalterably prejudiced against having a woman for President, and who come out with anti-female comments about Clinton rather than criticizing her substantively.
Madrassah, shmadrassah.
What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an “editorial”.
Does he get paid for that?
Nice work if you can get it.
Happy Thanksgiving, I’m off to put the sweet potatoes in the oven!
Thanks –
Madrassah, shmadrassah.
What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an “editorial”.
Does he get paid for that?
Nice work if you can get it.
Happy Thanksgiving, I’m off to put the sweet potatoes in the oven!
Thanks –
Madrassah, shmadrassah.
What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an “editorial”.
Does he get paid for that?
Nice work if you can get it.
Happy Thanksgiving, I’m off to put the sweet potatoes in the oven!
Thanks –
“What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an ‘editorial’.”
Hmm? It’s a blog post, at the National Review Online‘s “Corner” blog: it’s not an editorial, and Steyn doesn’t call it an editorial. What, um, are you talking about, russell?
“Does he get paid for that?”
Mildly interesting question; I have no idea what sort of arrangement magazines like The Atlantic and The New Yorker and TNR and sites like NRO have for paying their bloggers, but I expect that The Atlantic pays pretty reasonably, as they’ve lured their bloggers from elsewhere, and Sullivan has been making a tidy living for a good number of years now.
My guess would be that small political magazines/sites like TNR and NRO pay significantly less but I, for one, have no idea what the details might be. (Nick Denton’s people have been moved from a minimum number of posts per day to being paid by page impressions, in the past year, I gather, for whatever that’s worth.)
“What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an ‘editorial’.”
Hmm? It’s a blog post, at the National Review Online‘s “Corner” blog: it’s not an editorial, and Steyn doesn’t call it an editorial. What, um, are you talking about, russell?
“Does he get paid for that?”
Mildly interesting question; I have no idea what sort of arrangement magazines like The Atlantic and The New Yorker and TNR and sites like NRO have for paying their bloggers, but I expect that The Atlantic pays pretty reasonably, as they’ve lured their bloggers from elsewhere, and Sullivan has been making a tidy living for a good number of years now.
My guess would be that small political magazines/sites like TNR and NRO pay significantly less but I, for one, have no idea what the details might be. (Nick Denton’s people have been moved from a minimum number of posts per day to being paid by page impressions, in the past year, I gather, for whatever that’s worth.)
“What I want to know is how Steyn gets away with block-quoting four paragraphs of someone else’s stuff, adding in three sentences of his own snark, and calling that an ‘editorial’.”
Hmm? It’s a blog post, at the National Review Online‘s “Corner” blog: it’s not an editorial, and Steyn doesn’t call it an editorial. What, um, are you talking about, russell?
“Does he get paid for that?”
Mildly interesting question; I have no idea what sort of arrangement magazines like The Atlantic and The New Yorker and TNR and sites like NRO have for paying their bloggers, but I expect that The Atlantic pays pretty reasonably, as they’ve lured their bloggers from elsewhere, and Sullivan has been making a tidy living for a good number of years now.
My guess would be that small political magazines/sites like TNR and NRO pay significantly less but I, for one, have no idea what the details might be. (Nick Denton’s people have been moved from a minimum number of posts per day to being paid by page impressions, in the past year, I gather, for whatever that’s worth.)
“…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
Posted by: Slartibartfast |
Slart, it didn’t turn into a nit-picking contest; it *was made* into one. By you.
In the spirit of another commenter, discussing another person – do you really think that you fool people when you suddenly beomce incapable of parsing english, or understanding why the use of particular foreign words has meaning?
“…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
Posted by: Slartibartfast |
Slart, it didn’t turn into a nit-picking contest; it *was made* into one. By you.
In the spirit of another commenter, discussing another person – do you really think that you fool people when you suddenly beomce incapable of parsing english, or understanding why the use of particular foreign words has meaning?
“…but now that this is turning into a nit-picking tournament, and since I have to load up and drive up to the in-laws’ house, I’m going to have to leave off. I don’t know if or when I’ll be back.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Gary.”
Posted by: Slartibartfast |
Slart, it didn’t turn into a nit-picking contest; it *was made* into one. By you.
In the spirit of another commenter, discussing another person – do you really think that you fool people when you suddenly beomce incapable of parsing english, or understanding why the use of particular foreign words has meaning?
What, um, are you talking about, russell?
Right you are, I stand corrected. When I browsed the page I saw the NRO logo and assumed it was editorial content.
Making assumptions will be the end of me.
Now it’s time for an Alka-Seltzer, some veg-out time, and then to bed.
Hope everyone had a good day!
Thanks –
What, um, are you talking about, russell?
Right you are, I stand corrected. When I browsed the page I saw the NRO logo and assumed it was editorial content.
Making assumptions will be the end of me.
Now it’s time for an Alka-Seltzer, some veg-out time, and then to bed.
Hope everyone had a good day!
Thanks –
What, um, are you talking about, russell?
Right you are, I stand corrected. When I browsed the page I saw the NRO logo and assumed it was editorial content.
Making assumptions will be the end of me.
Now it’s time for an Alka-Seltzer, some veg-out time, and then to bed.
Hope everyone had a good day!
Thanks –
“Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.”
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
“Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.”
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
“Nowadays it’s Muslims, Arabs, Persians, and Spanish-speaking poor people.”
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
I doubt thtat there are many people on the left who read this site and have prejudices against all white southern males-see, for example, Clinton, Gore, Edwards, Carter, etc.
As to the rest of the examples on your list, note the non-subtle difference between disagreeing with people over ideas, however strongly that disagreement is expressed, and hating people because of who they are–black, Hispanic, Arabic, gay, female . . .
there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
I doubt thtat there are many people on the left who read this site and have prejudices against all white southern males-see, for example, Clinton, Gore, Edwards, Carter, etc.
As to the rest of the examples on your list, note the non-subtle difference between disagreeing with people over ideas, however strongly that disagreement is expressed, and hating people because of who they are–black, Hispanic, Arabic, gay, female . . .
there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc. Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
I doubt thtat there are many people on the left who read this site and have prejudices against all white southern males-see, for example, Clinton, Gore, Edwards, Carter, etc.
As to the rest of the examples on your list, note the non-subtle difference between disagreeing with people over ideas, however strongly that disagreement is expressed, and hating people because of who they are–black, Hispanic, Arabic, gay, female . . .
The paragraphs you don’t quote, prior to the one you choose to quote:
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws preventing Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., from entering the country, let alone becoming citizens, a la the Chinese Exclusion Acts, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws rounding up Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., and departing them, as was done to anarchists, communists, leftists, and suspicious immigrants, in the first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to form gangs to shoot and beat Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., as was done to strikers and their families in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws putting Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., on reservations, make and break laws as to how to deal with them, forbid them from using their native languages, and convert them from their native religions, you’ll have to provide evidence.
But if there are genuine parallels, there should be no problem compiling equal mountains of proof and evidence of these two identical sets of circumstances.
Me, I’ll be happy to provide hundreds of cites of evidence of the historical facts.
The paragraphs you don’t quote, prior to the one you choose to quote:
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws preventing Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., from entering the country, let alone becoming citizens, a la the Chinese Exclusion Acts, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws rounding up Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., and departing them, as was done to anarchists, communists, leftists, and suspicious immigrants, in the first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to form gangs to shoot and beat Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., as was done to strikers and their families in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws putting Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., on reservations, make and break laws as to how to deal with them, forbid them from using their native languages, and convert them from their native religions, you’ll have to provide evidence.
But if there are genuine parallels, there should be no problem compiling equal mountains of proof and evidence of these two identical sets of circumstances.
Me, I’ll be happy to provide hundreds of cites of evidence of the historical facts.
The paragraphs you don’t quote, prior to the one you choose to quote:
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws preventing Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., from entering the country, let alone becoming citizens, a la the Chinese Exclusion Acts, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws rounding up Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., and departing them, as was done to anarchists, communists, leftists, and suspicious immigrants, in the first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to form gangs to shoot and beat Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., as was done to strikers and their families in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century, you’ll need to provide evidence.
If you believe that it’s in the Republican political DNA to pass laws putting Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc., on reservations, make and break laws as to how to deal with them, forbid them from using their native languages, and convert them from their native religions, you’ll have to provide evidence.
But if there are genuine parallels, there should be no problem compiling equal mountains of proof and evidence of these two identical sets of circumstances.
Me, I’ll be happy to provide hundreds of cites of evidence of the historical facts.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices. In fact, they tend not to even admit to them. I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind. Just remember the history of the Democrats. If you want to cite events that occurred a century ago in order to smear all Repubs (and I tend to vote Repub but don’t consider myself to be one), then I can note that Repubs freed the slaves, Demos tried to destroy this country in order to keep them enslaved.
Enslaving people. It’s in the Democratic DNA.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices. In fact, they tend not to even admit to them. I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind. Just remember the history of the Democrats. If you want to cite events that occurred a century ago in order to smear all Repubs (and I tend to vote Repub but don’t consider myself to be one), then I can note that Repubs freed the slaves, Demos tried to destroy this country in order to keep them enslaved.
Enslaving people. It’s in the Democratic DNA.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices. In fact, they tend not to even admit to them. I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind. Just remember the history of the Democrats. If you want to cite events that occurred a century ago in order to smear all Repubs (and I tend to vote Repub but don’t consider myself to be one), then I can note that Repubs freed the slaves, Demos tried to destroy this country in order to keep them enslaved.
Enslaving people. It’s in the Democratic DNA.
And you specifically mentioned Yellow Peril. I believe Hearst was a Democrat.
And you specifically mentioned Yellow Peril. I believe Hearst was a Democrat.
And you specifically mentioned Yellow Peril. I believe Hearst was a Democrat.
“I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices.”
Probably few people are ever free of all prejudices. I’m unclear what the connection might be to accusing others, though. And might the relative truth or falsity of such accusations be relevant?
“I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind.”
I’m quite sure no such case can be made. Do you know anyone silly enough to try?
“in order to smear all Repubs”
Who has such a goal? Lots of Republicans are good people, if often naive and unknowledgeable about the nature of their leaders, and lots of Democrats aren’t necessarily good people. Was anyone here saying otherwise?
A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.
If it would comfort you for me to assure you that sometimes Republicans are right and sometimes Democrats are wrong, and that Democrats have taken wrong-headed political or policy positions at times, that prior to the second half of the 20th century, the Democrats were often as bad or worse than the Republicans on race, demagoguery, and exploiting fear, and that Democrats can and have done evil things at times, and that many good and fine people are Republicans, and even more good and fine people have been Republicans in the past, and that no one sane would think of drawing any sort of absolute or simplistic black and white picture of the two parties, hey, feel better!
It doesn’t make the Republican history any prettier, but no one was trying to say one party was all evil and the other party was all saints, so I’m glad we’ve cleared up this terrible confusion.
“I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices.”
Probably few people are ever free of all prejudices. I’m unclear what the connection might be to accusing others, though. And might the relative truth or falsity of such accusations be relevant?
“I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind.”
I’m quite sure no such case can be made. Do you know anyone silly enough to try?
“in order to smear all Repubs”
Who has such a goal? Lots of Republicans are good people, if often naive and unknowledgeable about the nature of their leaders, and lots of Democrats aren’t necessarily good people. Was anyone here saying otherwise?
A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.
If it would comfort you for me to assure you that sometimes Republicans are right and sometimes Democrats are wrong, and that Democrats have taken wrong-headed political or policy positions at times, that prior to the second half of the 20th century, the Democrats were often as bad or worse than the Republicans on race, demagoguery, and exploiting fear, and that Democrats can and have done evil things at times, and that many good and fine people are Republicans, and even more good and fine people have been Republicans in the past, and that no one sane would think of drawing any sort of absolute or simplistic black and white picture of the two parties, hey, feel better!
It doesn’t make the Republican history any prettier, but no one was trying to say one party was all evil and the other party was all saints, so I’m glad we’ve cleared up this terrible confusion.
“I guess the point I’m trying to make is that people who accuse others of bigotry, prejudice, and politics of fear are never free of their own prejudices.”
Probably few people are ever free of all prejudices. I’m unclear what the connection might be to accusing others, though. And might the relative truth or falsity of such accusations be relevant?
“I seriously doubt you can make a case that the above listed transgressions were solely Republican in nature, but do try and I’ll keep an open mind.”
I’m quite sure no such case can be made. Do you know anyone silly enough to try?
“in order to smear all Repubs”
Who has such a goal? Lots of Republicans are good people, if often naive and unknowledgeable about the nature of their leaders, and lots of Democrats aren’t necessarily good people. Was anyone here saying otherwise?
A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.
If it would comfort you for me to assure you that sometimes Republicans are right and sometimes Democrats are wrong, and that Democrats have taken wrong-headed political or policy positions at times, that prior to the second half of the 20th century, the Democrats were often as bad or worse than the Republicans on race, demagoguery, and exploiting fear, and that Democrats can and have done evil things at times, and that many good and fine people are Republicans, and even more good and fine people have been Republicans in the past, and that no one sane would think of drawing any sort of absolute or simplistic black and white picture of the two parties, hey, feel better!
It doesn’t make the Republican history any prettier, but no one was trying to say one party was all evil and the other party was all saints, so I’m glad we’ve cleared up this terrible confusion.
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
“A comment about “political DNA” isn’t a comment about actual DNA, you know.”
I know a great deal about one, but not nearly as much about the other. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were asserting that Repubs try to whip up fear of The Other. I don’t believe they are any more susceptible to this than any other party. The Know Nothing Party they ain’t. (insert obligatory joke about Bush here)
Crimso, perhaps you should read up on post-WII US political history. The word ‘Dixiecrat’ might be a good place to start.
Crimso, perhaps you should read up on post-WII US political history. The word ‘Dixiecrat’ might be a good place to start.
Crimso, perhaps you should read up on post-WII US political history. The word ‘Dixiecrat’ might be a good place to start.
Barry, you might want to read up on post-WWII US political history. The names “Robert Byrd” and “Al Gore, Sr.” might be a good place to start.
Barry, you might want to read up on post-WWII US political history. The names “Robert Byrd” and “Al Gore, Sr.” might be a good place to start.
Barry, you might want to read up on post-WWII US political history. The names “Robert Byrd” and “Al Gore, Sr.” might be a good place to start.
I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK? But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.
I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK? But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.
I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK? But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.
“But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.”
I didn’t say that.
Use of fear of the Other is what I said was in the political DNA.
“I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?”
G. W. Bush would be a very different person if he’d have been born in 1917, wouldn’t he?
And he’d have done all sorts of different things from the things he did in this reality, in that case.
In which case, we’d judge him differently, wouldn’t we?
We don’t know what sort of person he’d be, had he been born in 1917 in West Virginia, but whatever that person was, it would be appropriate to judge him for his acts, rather than those of another.
Just as we judge the acts of G. W. Bush in reality, and Robert Byrd, on their own.
What do you suggest is an appropriate response to Robert Byrd’s having been in the Klan from mid-1942 to early 1943?
“But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.”
I didn’t say that.
Use of fear of the Other is what I said was in the political DNA.
“I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?”
G. W. Bush would be a very different person if he’d have been born in 1917, wouldn’t he?
And he’d have done all sorts of different things from the things he did in this reality, in that case.
In which case, we’d judge him differently, wouldn’t we?
We don’t know what sort of person he’d be, had he been born in 1917 in West Virginia, but whatever that person was, it would be appropriate to judge him for his acts, rather than those of another.
Just as we judge the acts of G. W. Bush in reality, and Robert Byrd, on their own.
What do you suggest is an appropriate response to Robert Byrd’s having been in the Klan from mid-1942 to early 1943?
“But it’s okay, because Gary Farber has declared that racism is in the Repub political DNA.”
I didn’t say that.
Use of fear of the Other is what I said was in the political DNA.
“I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?”
G. W. Bush would be a very different person if he’d have been born in 1917, wouldn’t he?
And he’d have done all sorts of different things from the things he did in this reality, in that case.
In which case, we’d judge him differently, wouldn’t we?
We don’t know what sort of person he’d be, had he been born in 1917 in West Virginia, but whatever that person was, it would be appropriate to judge him for his acts, rather than those of another.
Just as we judge the acts of G. W. Bush in reality, and Robert Byrd, on their own.
What do you suggest is an appropriate response to Robert Byrd’s having been in the Klan from mid-1942 to early 1943?
Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd. It starts by bidding “Byrd gets a pass because he’s Democratic.” Except that in reality he doesn’t get a pass–liberal and left-wing activists about race aren’t at all wild about Byrd, nor are people concerned with other social justice issues. What he gets credit for is demonstrated honesty: he admits his past, he doesn’t try to say it was anyone else’s fault, and he’s showing a willingness to do better now. So he’s living up to the basic job of being a person in changing times, which is learning and responding to what you’ve learned. He’s worked hard to overcome the limitations of his younger self’s outlook, and to make the US the kind of nation where fewer people will grow up with those blinkers in the future.
Republican officials with pasts that include organized racism could earn the same respect by doing the same things. 1. Admit it. 2. Deal with it, showing in here-and-now terms their willingness to live and vote differently. Of course that requires genuinely acting as though racism is a bad thing, and since it’s foundational to movement conservatism we don’t need to sit around holding our breath waiting for it.
Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd. It starts by bidding “Byrd gets a pass because he’s Democratic.” Except that in reality he doesn’t get a pass–liberal and left-wing activists about race aren’t at all wild about Byrd, nor are people concerned with other social justice issues. What he gets credit for is demonstrated honesty: he admits his past, he doesn’t try to say it was anyone else’s fault, and he’s showing a willingness to do better now. So he’s living up to the basic job of being a person in changing times, which is learning and responding to what you’ve learned. He’s worked hard to overcome the limitations of his younger self’s outlook, and to make the US the kind of nation where fewer people will grow up with those blinkers in the future.
Republican officials with pasts that include organized racism could earn the same respect by doing the same things. 1. Admit it. 2. Deal with it, showing in here-and-now terms their willingness to live and vote differently. Of course that requires genuinely acting as though racism is a bad thing, and since it’s foundational to movement conservatism we don’t need to sit around holding our breath waiting for it.
Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd. It starts by bidding “Byrd gets a pass because he’s Democratic.” Except that in reality he doesn’t get a pass–liberal and left-wing activists about race aren’t at all wild about Byrd, nor are people concerned with other social justice issues. What he gets credit for is demonstrated honesty: he admits his past, he doesn’t try to say it was anyone else’s fault, and he’s showing a willingness to do better now. So he’s living up to the basic job of being a person in changing times, which is learning and responding to what you’ve learned. He’s worked hard to overcome the limitations of his younger self’s outlook, and to make the US the kind of nation where fewer people will grow up with those blinkers in the future.
Republican officials with pasts that include organized racism could earn the same respect by doing the same things. 1. Admit it. 2. Deal with it, showing in here-and-now terms their willingness to live and vote differently. Of course that requires genuinely acting as though racism is a bad thing, and since it’s foundational to movement conservatism we don’t need to sit around holding our breath waiting for it.
I correct myself: Social-justice activists do give Byrd full credit for what he says and does, starting with his voting record. He votes responsibly when it comes to addressing race-related issues now. He was also one of not nearly enough senators to vote against the war on Iraq in 2003. He’s always had huge resolve, and wherever it is he thinks he should be standing at the moment, he does stand firm. What I wanted to suggest but garbled is that he still is in a lot of ways a, well, southern conservative Democrat, and the ongoing struggle for social justice in law would benefit sometimes by having more legislators with more liberal temperaments. But he’s not on any special leash that I’m aware of anymore than he’s given that mythical pass conservative racists imagine; he’s treated [i]just the same[/i] as every other legislator when it comes to supporting and opposing measures here and now.
I correct myself: Social-justice activists do give Byrd full credit for what he says and does, starting with his voting record. He votes responsibly when it comes to addressing race-related issues now. He was also one of not nearly enough senators to vote against the war on Iraq in 2003. He’s always had huge resolve, and wherever it is he thinks he should be standing at the moment, he does stand firm. What I wanted to suggest but garbled is that he still is in a lot of ways a, well, southern conservative Democrat, and the ongoing struggle for social justice in law would benefit sometimes by having more legislators with more liberal temperaments. But he’s not on any special leash that I’m aware of anymore than he’s given that mythical pass conservative racists imagine; he’s treated [i]just the same[/i] as every other legislator when it comes to supporting and opposing measures here and now.
I correct myself: Social-justice activists do give Byrd full credit for what he says and does, starting with his voting record. He votes responsibly when it comes to addressing race-related issues now. He was also one of not nearly enough senators to vote against the war on Iraq in 2003. He’s always had huge resolve, and wherever it is he thinks he should be standing at the moment, he does stand firm. What I wanted to suggest but garbled is that he still is in a lot of ways a, well, southern conservative Democrat, and the ongoing struggle for social justice in law would benefit sometimes by having more legislators with more liberal temperaments. But he’s not on any special leash that I’m aware of anymore than he’s given that mythical pass conservative racists imagine; he’s treated [i]just the same[/i] as every other legislator when it comes to supporting and opposing measures here and now.
“Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd.”
No kidding?
But it’s a holiday weekend, and slow.
“Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd.”
No kidding?
But it’s a holiday weekend, and slow.
“Crimso is playing a familiar Republican game about Senator Byrd.”
No kidding?
But it’s a holiday weekend, and slow.
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc.
There are lots of people who look down on, make fun of, and otherwise hold a variety of prejudices toward the folks you name. The reciprocal prejudice, however, is towards effete coastal elites and liberal class snobs, not the folks Gary originally cited.
The folks Gary cited are commonly called out these days as presenting an existential threat to the nation. A different kind of fear-mongering altogether.
You’re correct to note that Republicans haven’t always embraced racism, and also correct to note that many if not most Republicans aren’t, personally, particularly racist. Republicans have, however, deliberately aligned themselves with domestic racism for their own electoral advantage for the last 40 years. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
The Know Nothing Party they ain’t.
Maybe so. There are, however, lots of folks nowadays who subscribe, still, to the Know Nothing agenda. To the degree that those folks align with any major American political party, it’s the Republicans.
Republicans may not be Know Nothings, but they offer them a generous welcome.
Thanks –
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc.
There are lots of people who look down on, make fun of, and otherwise hold a variety of prejudices toward the folks you name. The reciprocal prejudice, however, is towards effete coastal elites and liberal class snobs, not the folks Gary originally cited.
The folks Gary cited are commonly called out these days as presenting an existential threat to the nation. A different kind of fear-mongering altogether.
You’re correct to note that Republicans haven’t always embraced racism, and also correct to note that many if not most Republicans aren’t, personally, particularly racist. Republicans have, however, deliberately aligned themselves with domestic racism for their own electoral advantage for the last 40 years. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
The Know Nothing Party they ain’t.
Maybe so. There are, however, lots of folks nowadays who subscribe, still, to the Know Nothing agenda. To the degree that those folks align with any major American political party, it’s the Republicans.
Republicans may not be Know Nothings, but they offer them a generous welcome.
Thanks –
Of course, there are many people who could be referred to thusly, only replacing the groups you cited with, say, Republicans, religious people, white Southern males, firearm owners, etc. etc.
There are lots of people who look down on, make fun of, and otherwise hold a variety of prejudices toward the folks you name. The reciprocal prejudice, however, is towards effete coastal elites and liberal class snobs, not the folks Gary originally cited.
The folks Gary cited are commonly called out these days as presenting an existential threat to the nation. A different kind of fear-mongering altogether.
You’re correct to note that Republicans haven’t always embraced racism, and also correct to note that many if not most Republicans aren’t, personally, particularly racist. Republicans have, however, deliberately aligned themselves with domestic racism for their own electoral advantage for the last 40 years. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
The Know Nothing Party they ain’t.
Maybe so. There are, however, lots of folks nowadays who subscribe, still, to the Know Nothing agenda. To the degree that those folks align with any major American political party, it’s the Republicans.
Republicans may not be Know Nothings, but they offer them a generous welcome.
Thanks –
Crimso: I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?
Byrd was 24 when he joined the KKK, and 25 when he left it, back in 1942-43. So the equivalent would be if George W. Bush had joined the KKK in 1970-71. In fact, at that time Bush was doing something very different with his time, but yeah, it’s fair to say, I think, that a young man who joined the KKK in 1970 would be looked upon very differently to a young man who did so in 1942.
If we’re going back to 1942, however, you might want to consider that George W. Bush has never been asked any public questions (to my knowledge) about his grandfather’s financial connections with the Nazi party. He and his father have both had a free ride on that one. I suppose you might argue that this scandal touched Prescott Bush, not his son or grandson, but it was a pretty big scandal.
Moving on to more recent financial scandals, you might want to consider George W. Bush’s financial links with the bin Laden family: James Bath, a close family friend of George W. Bush, was in 1979 the sole business representative in the US for Osama bin Laden’s older brother, and who had (and still has) extensive financial links both with the bin Laden family and with BCCI, the bank that has funded Osama bin Laden, is also one of the investors in the Arbusto company, Bush’s first attempt to be a businessman. This is the first direct example of George W. Bush dealing with the bin Laden family, but it’s far from the last – and yet, whenever Bush is asked about finding Osama bin Laden (seldom enough) he’s given a completely free ride about his close financial links with the bin Laden family.
Still trying to play “the media is mean to Bush”?
Crimso: I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?
Byrd was 24 when he joined the KKK, and 25 when he left it, back in 1942-43. So the equivalent would be if George W. Bush had joined the KKK in 1970-71. In fact, at that time Bush was doing something very different with his time, but yeah, it’s fair to say, I think, that a young man who joined the KKK in 1970 would be looked upon very differently to a young man who did so in 1942.
If we’re going back to 1942, however, you might want to consider that George W. Bush has never been asked any public questions (to my knowledge) about his grandfather’s financial connections with the Nazi party. He and his father have both had a free ride on that one. I suppose you might argue that this scandal touched Prescott Bush, not his son or grandson, but it was a pretty big scandal.
Moving on to more recent financial scandals, you might want to consider George W. Bush’s financial links with the bin Laden family: James Bath, a close family friend of George W. Bush, was in 1979 the sole business representative in the US for Osama bin Laden’s older brother, and who had (and still has) extensive financial links both with the bin Laden family and with BCCI, the bank that has funded Osama bin Laden, is also one of the investors in the Arbusto company, Bush’s first attempt to be a businessman. This is the first direct example of George W. Bush dealing with the bin Laden family, but it’s far from the last – and yet, whenever Bush is asked about finding Osama bin Laden (seldom enough) he’s given a completely free ride about his close financial links with the bin Laden family.
Still trying to play “the media is mean to Bush”?
Crimso: I mean seriously, does anyone here believe GW Bush would be given the pass that Byrd is given if he had been a member of the KKK?
Byrd was 24 when he joined the KKK, and 25 when he left it, back in 1942-43. So the equivalent would be if George W. Bush had joined the KKK in 1970-71. In fact, at that time Bush was doing something very different with his time, but yeah, it’s fair to say, I think, that a young man who joined the KKK in 1970 would be looked upon very differently to a young man who did so in 1942.
If we’re going back to 1942, however, you might want to consider that George W. Bush has never been asked any public questions (to my knowledge) about his grandfather’s financial connections with the Nazi party. He and his father have both had a free ride on that one. I suppose you might argue that this scandal touched Prescott Bush, not his son or grandson, but it was a pretty big scandal.
Moving on to more recent financial scandals, you might want to consider George W. Bush’s financial links with the bin Laden family: James Bath, a close family friend of George W. Bush, was in 1979 the sole business representative in the US for Osama bin Laden’s older brother, and who had (and still has) extensive financial links both with the bin Laden family and with BCCI, the bank that has funded Osama bin Laden, is also one of the investors in the Arbusto company, Bush’s first attempt to be a businessman. This is the first direct example of George W. Bush dealing with the bin Laden family, but it’s far from the last – and yet, whenever Bush is asked about finding Osama bin Laden (seldom enough) he’s given a completely free ride about his close financial links with the bin Laden family.
Still trying to play “the media is mean to Bush”?
Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes. Oh, and Jesurgislac, thanks for tipping me off to the types of thought processes that some of the regular posters here employ. Bush=Hitler (“I’m not saying, I’m just asking questions”), nice one. Trutherism, also really intellectually honest as well. And spare me the “But that’s not what I said.” I know exactly what you mean.
Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes. Oh, and Jesurgislac, thanks for tipping me off to the types of thought processes that some of the regular posters here employ. Bush=Hitler (“I’m not saying, I’m just asking questions”), nice one. Trutherism, also really intellectually honest as well. And spare me the “But that’s not what I said.” I know exactly what you mean.
Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes. Oh, and Jesurgislac, thanks for tipping me off to the types of thought processes that some of the regular posters here employ. Bush=Hitler (“I’m not saying, I’m just asking questions”), nice one. Trutherism, also really intellectually honest as well. And spare me the “But that’s not what I said.” I know exactly what you mean.
Crimso: Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes.
Ah, good one. Rather than defend the indefensible, you troll and run. Only thing to do, really, faced with the fact that Prescott Bush’s links with the Nazi party and George W. Bush’s links with Osama bin Laden are considerably more scandalous – and considerably more ignored by US media – than Robert Byrd’s long ago and long regretted brief membership of the KKK.
Crimso: Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes.
Ah, good one. Rather than defend the indefensible, you troll and run. Only thing to do, really, faced with the fact that Prescott Bush’s links with the Nazi party and George W. Bush’s links with Osama bin Laden are considerably more scandalous – and considerably more ignored by US media – than Robert Byrd’s long ago and long regretted brief membership of the KKK.
Crimso: Sorry folks. Didn’t mean to get in the way of the echoes.
Ah, good one. Rather than defend the indefensible, you troll and run. Only thing to do, really, faced with the fact that Prescott Bush’s links with the Nazi party and George W. Bush’s links with Osama bin Laden are considerably more scandalous – and considerably more ignored by US media – than Robert Byrd’s long ago and long regretted brief membership of the KKK.
Be sorry when you actually get in the way. You can only do that when you bring something solid to the table.
You’re bring given every chance to engage in substantive debate–it’s pretty pathetic when you cut and run or spew soundbytes. It gives the impression that that’s all the right is capable of.
Be sorry when you actually get in the way. You can only do that when you bring something solid to the table.
You’re bring given every chance to engage in substantive debate–it’s pretty pathetic when you cut and run or spew soundbytes. It gives the impression that that’s all the right is capable of.
Be sorry when you actually get in the way. You can only do that when you bring something solid to the table.
You’re bring given every chance to engage in substantive debate–it’s pretty pathetic when you cut and run or spew soundbytes. It gives the impression that that’s all the right is capable of.
I’m thinking that the handle gives us a pretty interesting view into the thought processes here. I’m assuming Crimso is something like ‘so crimson’, i.e. red stater, and supports things not because they are conservative or liberal, but because people in the red parts support those things. I respect someone who is a true conservative in the Burkean sense, trying to determine what things are worthy of being retained and arguing against change in those cases, but someone who simply defines him/herself as a bundle of ideas that are often contradictory, kinda sad.
I’m thinking that the handle gives us a pretty interesting view into the thought processes here. I’m assuming Crimso is something like ‘so crimson’, i.e. red stater, and supports things not because they are conservative or liberal, but because people in the red parts support those things. I respect someone who is a true conservative in the Burkean sense, trying to determine what things are worthy of being retained and arguing against change in those cases, but someone who simply defines him/herself as a bundle of ideas that are often contradictory, kinda sad.
I’m thinking that the handle gives us a pretty interesting view into the thought processes here. I’m assuming Crimso is something like ‘so crimson’, i.e. red stater, and supports things not because they are conservative or liberal, but because people in the red parts support those things. I respect someone who is a true conservative in the Burkean sense, trying to determine what things are worthy of being retained and arguing against change in those cases, but someone who simply defines him/herself as a bundle of ideas that are often contradictory, kinda sad.
Of course, could be an Alabama fan, which would really be sad…
Of course, could be an Alabama fan, which would really be sad…
Of course, could be an Alabama fan, which would really be sad…
Calling someone a movement conservastive is one thing, but a ‘Bama fan? You’re cold, LJ, supercold.
Calling someone a movement conservastive is one thing, but a ‘Bama fan? You’re cold, LJ, supercold.
Calling someone a movement conservastive is one thing, but a ‘Bama fan? You’re cold, LJ, supercold.
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school.
Which begs a question: how do Arabic speakers distinguish between a religious school of the type that American English-speakers currently associate with the word “madrassah” and a school that teaches a curriculum intended to prepare students for, say, an engineering college?
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school.
Which begs a question: how do Arabic speakers distinguish between a religious school of the type that American English-speakers currently associate with the word “madrassah” and a school that teaches a curriculum intended to prepare students for, say, an engineering college?
Realizing that my only argument here is that I speak some Arabic, I’m just going to note once more that madrassah is, in fact, Arabic for school. Not religious school. Not school intended to brainwash young minds into becoming suicide bombers. Just school.
Which begs a question: how do Arabic speakers distinguish between a religious school of the type that American English-speakers currently associate with the word “madrassah” and a school that teaches a curriculum intended to prepare students for, say, an engineering college?
With adjectives….
With adjectives….
With adjectives….
By the way, I think many of you did jump on Crimso excessively, responding in a snide way to his initially quite acceptable comments, prompting the discussion to go south quickly.
By the way, I think many of you did jump on Crimso excessively, responding in a snide way to his initially quite acceptable comments, prompting the discussion to go south quickly.
By the way, I think many of you did jump on Crimso excessively, responding in a snide way to his initially quite acceptable comments, prompting the discussion to go south quickly.
I have to say that it is effective. “madrassah” means just one thing to me. OTOH I’m almost equally leery of his 2 years in a Catholic school…
On the one foot, I don’t dislike Keith Ellison because he is Muslim (or black), I just think he is wrong on many issues.
On the other foot, Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I am now out of appendages…
I have to say that it is effective. “madrassah” means just one thing to me. OTOH I’m almost equally leery of his 2 years in a Catholic school…
On the one foot, I don’t dislike Keith Ellison because he is Muslim (or black), I just think he is wrong on many issues.
On the other foot, Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I am now out of appendages…
I have to say that it is effective. “madrassah” means just one thing to me. OTOH I’m almost equally leery of his 2 years in a Catholic school…
On the one foot, I don’t dislike Keith Ellison because he is Muslim (or black), I just think he is wrong on many issues.
On the other foot, Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I am now out of appendages…
OCSteve: I am now out of appendages….
…I hope not. 😉
OCSteve: I am now out of appendages….
…I hope not. 😉
OCSteve: I am now out of appendages….
…I hope not. 😉
“madrassah” means just one thing to me.
Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I don’t know if it’s dumb and self-defeating as electoral politics, but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim. American foreign policy has been flown right into the ground in the past few years because it is in the hands of a provincial, ignorant, and xenophobic zealots. Maybe someone who knows, for example, that schools are simply schools for the vast majority of Muslims will have a better chance of conducting a sensible Middle East policy.
“madrassah” means just one thing to me.
Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I don’t know if it’s dumb and self-defeating as electoral politics, but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim. American foreign policy has been flown right into the ground in the past few years because it is in the hands of a provincial, ignorant, and xenophobic zealots. Maybe someone who knows, for example, that schools are simply schools for the vast majority of Muslims will have a better chance of conducting a sensible Middle East policy.
“madrassah” means just one thing to me.
Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
Obama touting elementary school as foreign policy experience is just dumb, and self-defeating.
I don’t know if it’s dumb and self-defeating as electoral politics, but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim. American foreign policy has been flown right into the ground in the past few years because it is in the hands of a provincial, ignorant, and xenophobic zealots. Maybe someone who knows, for example, that schools are simply schools for the vast majority of Muslims will have a better chance of conducting a sensible Middle East policy.
Thanks for the civility, Byrningman. For the curious, it’s a nic for one of my favorite bands. And living about 15 miles from Alabama, I proudly consider myself as part of the first line of defense against it. And I don’t call myself anything like a conservative. That’s a label others (not just those here who know nothing about me and want to hear my ideas even less) put on me.
I’d like to point out that what sticks out to me in the above comments, is the presence of a “rhetorical” technique I can best illustrate with the following. A while back Jim Rome responded to an email in which the writer took issue with a characterization Rome had made previously of Batman and Robin as gay. Rome hilariously went on to say that he never said B & R were gay, and that he never would say that. “I’m just saying that they’re two young bachelors, living together, that wear tights, and have utility belts containing sexually-ambiguous devices, and they have a butler named Alfred. That’s all I’m saying. I never said they were gay.” Great technique for comedy, not so great for rhetoric. And it’s so very difficult to keep up when everyone is siding against you (thanks for admitting there are echoes in here, gwangung), so I can’t possibly do more than respond to the most obvious fallacies or falsehoods, and I’m truly having trouble keeping up with even those. Let me return to what I originally took issue with (and leave the crackpot Truther and Bush=Hitler “arguments” out of it (you think they “bring something solid to the table” Gwangung?). Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA (a nicely vague term upon the meaning of which he can easily backpedal), listing various transgressions from time immemorial, presumably meaning (though he will likely invoke the Batman and Robin technique and say “I never said that!”) that they should be held against the Repubs (and failing to note that at least one of his examples was from a Dem, though I tried to help him out on that). He then proceeds to insist that Byrd should be judged as a product of his times and forgiven his clearly and indisputably documented racist (and not your garden-variety racist, mind you, but the frickin’ KKK!!!) past. But the Repubs from a century ago (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else he’s not correct about?), not so much. I don’t comment on blogs often, though I read them a lot. I don’t come here to comment in order to set you straight (though if I feel someone is wrong I will say so), I come here to try to figure out why you think the way you do, measure that against what I think and why I think it, then take the best and leave the rest.
Now, fire away!
Thanks for the civility, Byrningman. For the curious, it’s a nic for one of my favorite bands. And living about 15 miles from Alabama, I proudly consider myself as part of the first line of defense against it. And I don’t call myself anything like a conservative. That’s a label others (not just those here who know nothing about me and want to hear my ideas even less) put on me.
I’d like to point out that what sticks out to me in the above comments, is the presence of a “rhetorical” technique I can best illustrate with the following. A while back Jim Rome responded to an email in which the writer took issue with a characterization Rome had made previously of Batman and Robin as gay. Rome hilariously went on to say that he never said B & R were gay, and that he never would say that. “I’m just saying that they’re two young bachelors, living together, that wear tights, and have utility belts containing sexually-ambiguous devices, and they have a butler named Alfred. That’s all I’m saying. I never said they were gay.” Great technique for comedy, not so great for rhetoric. And it’s so very difficult to keep up when everyone is siding against you (thanks for admitting there are echoes in here, gwangung), so I can’t possibly do more than respond to the most obvious fallacies or falsehoods, and I’m truly having trouble keeping up with even those. Let me return to what I originally took issue with (and leave the crackpot Truther and Bush=Hitler “arguments” out of it (you think they “bring something solid to the table” Gwangung?). Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA (a nicely vague term upon the meaning of which he can easily backpedal), listing various transgressions from time immemorial, presumably meaning (though he will likely invoke the Batman and Robin technique and say “I never said that!”) that they should be held against the Repubs (and failing to note that at least one of his examples was from a Dem, though I tried to help him out on that). He then proceeds to insist that Byrd should be judged as a product of his times and forgiven his clearly and indisputably documented racist (and not your garden-variety racist, mind you, but the frickin’ KKK!!!) past. But the Repubs from a century ago (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else he’s not correct about?), not so much. I don’t comment on blogs often, though I read them a lot. I don’t come here to comment in order to set you straight (though if I feel someone is wrong I will say so), I come here to try to figure out why you think the way you do, measure that against what I think and why I think it, then take the best and leave the rest.
Now, fire away!
Thanks for the civility, Byrningman. For the curious, it’s a nic for one of my favorite bands. And living about 15 miles from Alabama, I proudly consider myself as part of the first line of defense against it. And I don’t call myself anything like a conservative. That’s a label others (not just those here who know nothing about me and want to hear my ideas even less) put on me.
I’d like to point out that what sticks out to me in the above comments, is the presence of a “rhetorical” technique I can best illustrate with the following. A while back Jim Rome responded to an email in which the writer took issue with a characterization Rome had made previously of Batman and Robin as gay. Rome hilariously went on to say that he never said B & R were gay, and that he never would say that. “I’m just saying that they’re two young bachelors, living together, that wear tights, and have utility belts containing sexually-ambiguous devices, and they have a butler named Alfred. That’s all I’m saying. I never said they were gay.” Great technique for comedy, not so great for rhetoric. And it’s so very difficult to keep up when everyone is siding against you (thanks for admitting there are echoes in here, gwangung), so I can’t possibly do more than respond to the most obvious fallacies or falsehoods, and I’m truly having trouble keeping up with even those. Let me return to what I originally took issue with (and leave the crackpot Truther and Bush=Hitler “arguments” out of it (you think they “bring something solid to the table” Gwangung?). Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA (a nicely vague term upon the meaning of which he can easily backpedal), listing various transgressions from time immemorial, presumably meaning (though he will likely invoke the Batman and Robin technique and say “I never said that!”) that they should be held against the Repubs (and failing to note that at least one of his examples was from a Dem, though I tried to help him out on that). He then proceeds to insist that Byrd should be judged as a product of his times and forgiven his clearly and indisputably documented racist (and not your garden-variety racist, mind you, but the frickin’ KKK!!!) past. But the Repubs from a century ago (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else he’s not correct about?), not so much. I don’t comment on blogs often, though I read them a lot. I don’t come here to comment in order to set you straight (though if I feel someone is wrong I will say so), I come here to try to figure out why you think the way you do, measure that against what I think and why I think it, then take the best and leave the rest.
Now, fire away!
Jes: I hope not.
Heh. Couldn’t think of a tactful way to fit that one in. Other threads maybe…
Byrningman: Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
I didn’t say it was right or wrong or accurate – just that currently it means one thing to me. Most of what I know about these schools has to do with the worldwide Saudi influence on them. What I know of them is the alarmist perspective. So I appreciate this post and the comments.
but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim.
Sorry – but I don’t get that. I know I’ve said it before, but I lived in foreign countries for years and I seriously doubt you would think that gives me presidential-level foreign policy experience, and it shouldn’t. It means squat. It means I know what a good beer or white wine is and how to cook a mean Wiener schnitzel.
Jes: I hope not.
Heh. Couldn’t think of a tactful way to fit that one in. Other threads maybe…
Byrningman: Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
I didn’t say it was right or wrong or accurate – just that currently it means one thing to me. Most of what I know about these schools has to do with the worldwide Saudi influence on them. What I know of them is the alarmist perspective. So I appreciate this post and the comments.
but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim.
Sorry – but I don’t get that. I know I’ve said it before, but I lived in foreign countries for years and I seriously doubt you would think that gives me presidential-level foreign policy experience, and it shouldn’t. It means squat. It means I know what a good beer or white wine is and how to cook a mean Wiener schnitzel.
Jes: I hope not.
Heh. Couldn’t think of a tactful way to fit that one in. Other threads maybe…
Byrningman: Well the point of this thread is that it shouldn’t, unless that one thing is ‘school’. Otherwise, why willfully persist in maintaining a demonstrably inaccurate and damaging notion?
I didn’t say it was right or wrong or accurate – just that currently it means one thing to me. Most of what I know about these schools has to do with the worldwide Saudi influence on them. What I know of them is the alarmist perspective. So I appreciate this post and the comments.
but for me it is an entirely sensible and justified claim.
Sorry – but I don’t get that. I know I’ve said it before, but I lived in foreign countries for years and I seriously doubt you would think that gives me presidential-level foreign policy experience, and it shouldn’t. It means squat. It means I know what a good beer or white wine is and how to cook a mean Wiener schnitzel.
I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas, and his advisors, many of whom were considered experts, turned about to be a bunch of crack pots. Maybe it’s time for a Presidennt who has a sense of what ordinary life is like in such varied places as Indonesia and Kennya.
I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas, and his advisors, many of whom were considered experts, turned about to be a bunch of crack pots. Maybe it’s time for a Presidennt who has a sense of what ordinary life is like in such varied places as Indonesia and Kennya.
I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas, and his advisors, many of whom were considered experts, turned about to be a bunch of crack pots. Maybe it’s time for a Presidennt who has a sense of what ordinary life is like in such varied places as Indonesia and Kennya.
Crimso,
from your first comment
But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
You might get a bit more civility if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots. If you think suggesting that we take the best and leave the rest means you get a pass on bs like that, please rethink your commenting strategy.
Crimso,
from your first comment
But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
You might get a bit more civility if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots. If you think suggesting that we take the best and leave the rest means you get a pass on bs like that, please rethink your commenting strategy.
Crimso,
from your first comment
But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.
You might get a bit more civility if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots. If you think suggesting that we take the best and leave the rest means you get a pass on bs like that, please rethink your commenting strategy.
“Since you were the one mentioning that, no, you’re not bringing anything to the table.”
Ahh ahh ahh. I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread, so you can stop “that strawman crap.” Since you say that it is not bringing anything to the table, I would suggest Jesurgislac pipe down so as not to upset Gwangung 😉
“Since you were the one mentioning that, no, you’re not bringing anything to the table.”
Ahh ahh ahh. I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread, so you can stop “that strawman crap.” Since you say that it is not bringing anything to the table, I would suggest Jesurgislac pipe down so as not to upset Gwangung 😉
“Since you were the one mentioning that, no, you’re not bringing anything to the table.”
Ahh ahh ahh. I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread, so you can stop “that strawman crap.” Since you say that it is not bringing anything to the table, I would suggest Jesurgislac pipe down so as not to upset Gwangung 😉
“if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots.”
Perhaps you missed the sentence preceding the one you quoted:
“Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
Let me reiterate: I don’t know Gary Farber (though his name sounds vaguely familiar), so it would be foolish of me to assume things like that about him (though I’ll note that others have made some foolish assumptions about me). Given the comments of his I’ve read here, I suspect he’s not some 15 year-old idiot posting from his parents’ basement. When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me. I’m not here to get anyone’s approval, as I really don’t care what anybody else thinks of me. But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
“if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots.”
Perhaps you missed the sentence preceding the one you quoted:
“Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
Let me reiterate: I don’t know Gary Farber (though his name sounds vaguely familiar), so it would be foolish of me to assume things like that about him (though I’ll note that others have made some foolish assumptions about me). Given the comments of his I’ve read here, I suspect he’s not some 15 year-old idiot posting from his parents’ basement. When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me. I’m not here to get anyone’s approval, as I really don’t care what anybody else thinks of me. But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
“if you don’t try to slyly suggest that people here in general (and Gary in particular) are bigots.”
Perhaps you missed the sentence preceding the one you quoted:
“Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
Let me reiterate: I don’t know Gary Farber (though his name sounds vaguely familiar), so it would be foolish of me to assume things like that about him (though I’ll note that others have made some foolish assumptions about me). Given the comments of his I’ve read here, I suspect he’s not some 15 year-old idiot posting from his parents’ basement. When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me. I’m not here to get anyone’s approval, as I really don’t care what anybody else thinks of me. But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
And let me make another thing clear. “But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots,” would be true regardless of where I posted it.
And let me make another thing clear. “But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots,” would be true regardless of where I posted it.
And let me make another thing clear. “But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots,” would be true regardless of where I posted it.
Crimso: When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me.
Don’t take it too personally. Gary responds that way to everybody.
I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread
Actually, you did, if you mean your claim that “Bush=Hitler”. That was wholly you, and only you. Nice of you to blame it on me because I pointed out Bush scandals as old as the Byrd scandal that are ignored by the “liberal media”, and a good strawman way to ignore the point I was making.
Crimso: When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me.
Don’t take it too personally. Gary responds that way to everybody.
I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread
Actually, you did, if you mean your claim that “Bush=Hitler”. That was wholly you, and only you. Nice of you to blame it on me because I pointed out Bush scandals as old as the Byrd scandal that are ignored by the “liberal media”, and a good strawman way to ignore the point I was making.
Crimso: When I have remarked on his comments, his replies give me the distinct feeling he does think that about me.
Don’t take it too personally. Gary responds that way to everybody.
I most certainly did NOT inject that into this thread
Actually, you did, if you mean your claim that “Bush=Hitler”. That was wholly you, and only you. Nice of you to blame it on me because I pointed out Bush scandals as old as the Byrd scandal that are ignored by the “liberal media”, and a good strawman way to ignore the point I was making.
By the way, Crimso, we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
By the way, Crimso, we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
By the way, Crimso, we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
wonkie: I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Assuming that is addressed at me – my goal is to winter in Cancun. 😉
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German. I got out of the Army and continued to live there for years as a civilian. Much of my daily interaction was with Germans. I shopped in German stores, drank (great) beer in the Gasthauses, and talked politics there. I followed the government doings during that time. I was an adult at the time. I visited most of the countries now in the EU and it wasn’t in any ritzy fashion – it was spending time with the poorest in those countries.
Based on that, my foreign policy cred beats Obama by a factor of ten at least. Elementary school in Indonesia? What do you recall of those years (elementary school)? You really don’t want me running the country’s foreign policy right?
I actually think Obama is one of the more interesting candidates, and if he gets the nod there is a chance I will vote for him. But not based on his proclaimed foreign policy experience. He needs to focus on something else…
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas
You really want to stand by that? (Not Bush – the Texas thing.)
wonkie: I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Assuming that is addressed at me – my goal is to winter in Cancun. 😉
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German. I got out of the Army and continued to live there for years as a civilian. Much of my daily interaction was with Germans. I shopped in German stores, drank (great) beer in the Gasthauses, and talked politics there. I followed the government doings during that time. I was an adult at the time. I visited most of the countries now in the EU and it wasn’t in any ritzy fashion – it was spending time with the poorest in those countries.
Based on that, my foreign policy cred beats Obama by a factor of ten at least. Elementary school in Indonesia? What do you recall of those years (elementary school)? You really don’t want me running the country’s foreign policy right?
I actually think Obama is one of the more interesting candidates, and if he gets the nod there is a chance I will vote for him. But not based on his proclaimed foreign policy experience. He needs to focus on something else…
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas
You really want to stand by that? (Not Bush – the Texas thing.)
wonkie: I think that the type of foreign experince Obama hadd is important. His connnection is to third world countries with religous traditions quite different from ours. Also he lived there–he wasn’t a tourist. He has relatives in Kenya and Indonnesia. that’s a whole different ball game then spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany or wintering in Cancun.
Assuming that is addressed at me – my goal is to winter in Cancun. 😉
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German. I got out of the Army and continued to live there for years as a civilian. Much of my daily interaction was with Germans. I shopped in German stores, drank (great) beer in the Gasthauses, and talked politics there. I followed the government doings during that time. I was an adult at the time. I visited most of the countries now in the EU and it wasn’t in any ritzy fashion – it was spending time with the poorest in those countries.
Based on that, my foreign policy cred beats Obama by a factor of ten at least. Elementary school in Indonesia? What do you recall of those years (elementary school)? You really don’t want me running the country’s foreign policy right?
I actually think Obama is one of the more interesting candidates, and if he gets the nod there is a chance I will vote for him. But not based on his proclaimed foreign policy experience. He needs to focus on something else…
Bush has no experience in foreign affairs, unless you count his years as governor of Texas
You really want to stand by that? (Not Bush – the Texas thing.)
we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
And since OCSteve is back from burning down the forest, the lamp is lit
we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
And since OCSteve is back from burning down the forest, the lamp is lit
we have a meta-blog (Taking It Outside) that is meant for debating things like personal comments about other commenters…
And since OCSteve is back from burning down the forest, the lamp is lit
Steve, i wasn’t snarking at you. I didn’t kow you were stationed inn Germany. i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have. But I do think that experience in a couuntry as similar to ours as Germany is not as educatinal as experience in a country that is dissimilar.
I was joking about Texas being foreign–but have you ever been there? Definately foreign to me.
Actually I don’t care much that a President have expertise in particular area. I mean how could a person possibly knnow enough about the economy, history, foreign affairs, policy issues etc? I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Steve, i wasn’t snarking at you. I didn’t kow you were stationed inn Germany. i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have. But I do think that experience in a couuntry as similar to ours as Germany is not as educatinal as experience in a country that is dissimilar.
I was joking about Texas being foreign–but have you ever been there? Definately foreign to me.
Actually I don’t care much that a President have expertise in particular area. I mean how could a person possibly knnow enough about the economy, history, foreign affairs, policy issues etc? I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Steve, i wasn’t snarking at you. I didn’t kow you were stationed inn Germany. i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have. But I do think that experience in a couuntry as similar to ours as Germany is not as educatinal as experience in a country that is dissimilar.
I was joking about Texas being foreign–but have you ever been there? Definately foreign to me.
Actually I don’t care much that a President have expertise in particular area. I mean how could a person possibly knnow enough about the economy, history, foreign affairs, policy issues etc? I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Let me return to what I originally took issue with…. Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA
I don’t know if I agree with Gary that “fear of the Other” is baked into Republican DNA, nor do I necessarily agree with his historical analysis, but I do agree that the “fear of the Other” plays a large role in Republican rhetoric *today*. It’s not unique to Republicans, but it’s prevalent enough among them to make the association between Republicans and xenophobia a credible one, here and now.
Your counterexample — social prejudice against religious people, southern white males, gun owners — isn’t *false* — that prejudice certainly exists. I just don’t think it’s to the point.
Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
When folks imply, or openly state, that Obama is a crypto-Muslim, they aren’t saying he’s an annoying snob, or that he doesn’t understand “regular folks”. They’re saying he’s the Manchurian candidate, a political stealth bomb, a mole for the Other Side.
It’s not the same.
Thanks –
Let me return to what I originally took issue with…. Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA
I don’t know if I agree with Gary that “fear of the Other” is baked into Republican DNA, nor do I necessarily agree with his historical analysis, but I do agree that the “fear of the Other” plays a large role in Republican rhetoric *today*. It’s not unique to Republicans, but it’s prevalent enough among them to make the association between Republicans and xenophobia a credible one, here and now.
Your counterexample — social prejudice against religious people, southern white males, gun owners — isn’t *false* — that prejudice certainly exists. I just don’t think it’s to the point.
Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
When folks imply, or openly state, that Obama is a crypto-Muslim, they aren’t saying he’s an annoying snob, or that he doesn’t understand “regular folks”. They’re saying he’s the Manchurian candidate, a political stealth bomb, a mole for the Other Side.
It’s not the same.
Thanks –
Let me return to what I originally took issue with…. Gary Farber asserted fear of the Other was part of the Repub political DNA
I don’t know if I agree with Gary that “fear of the Other” is baked into Republican DNA, nor do I necessarily agree with his historical analysis, but I do agree that the “fear of the Other” plays a large role in Republican rhetoric *today*. It’s not unique to Republicans, but it’s prevalent enough among them to make the association between Republicans and xenophobia a credible one, here and now.
Your counterexample — social prejudice against religious people, southern white males, gun owners — isn’t *false* — that prejudice certainly exists. I just don’t think it’s to the point.
Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
When folks imply, or openly state, that Obama is a crypto-Muslim, they aren’t saying he’s an annoying snob, or that he doesn’t understand “regular folks”. They’re saying he’s the Manchurian candidate, a political stealth bomb, a mole for the Other Side.
It’s not the same.
Thanks –
Wonkie: i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have.
True enough – and I do know those Americans. Sorry if I responded when it wasn’t directed at me.
Have I been to Texas – hell yeah and I felt right at home. But I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Amen. On that we can agree completely.
Wonkie: i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have.
True enough – and I do know those Americans. Sorry if I responded when it wasn’t directed at me.
Have I been to Texas – hell yeah and I felt right at home. But I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Amen. On that we can agree completely.
Wonkie: i was just thiking of typical sorts of foreign experiences Americans have.
True enough – and I do know those Americans. Sorry if I responded when it wasn’t directed at me.
Have I been to Texas – hell yeah and I felt right at home. But I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
I just want a President who can pick good advisors.
Amen. On that we can agree completely.
I get the feeling (from over here) that Obama has to play up his overseas experience precisely because of the underground smear campaign that G’Kar points out. If he fails to talk about his experiences overseas, he gets accused of hiding something, but when he talks about it, he gets accused of playing it up too much. Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this, because that would be putting the spotlight on him rather than on their own campaigns.
I get the feeling (from over here) that Obama has to play up his overseas experience precisely because of the underground smear campaign that G’Kar points out. If he fails to talk about his experiences overseas, he gets accused of hiding something, but when he talks about it, he gets accused of playing it up too much. Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this, because that would be putting the spotlight on him rather than on their own campaigns.
I get the feeling (from over here) that Obama has to play up his overseas experience precisely because of the underground smear campaign that G’Kar points out. If he fails to talk about his experiences overseas, he gets accused of hiding something, but when he talks about it, he gets accused of playing it up too much. Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this, because that would be putting the spotlight on him rather than on their own campaigns.
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German.
Hey OC-
That’s all good, but in our current historical and political context, the fact that Obama lived in a poor, Muslim, Asian nation, at whatever age, may in fact be a uniquely valuable asset from a foreign policy perspective.
Not just another country, but a particular kind of other country.
Thanks –
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German.
Hey OC-
That’s all good, but in our current historical and political context, the fact that Obama lived in a poor, Muslim, Asian nation, at whatever age, may in fact be a uniquely valuable asset from a foreign policy perspective.
Not just another country, but a particular kind of other country.
Thanks –
It’s not just a matter of “spending a tour of duty on a base in Germany”. I lived “on the economy” meaning off base. My neighbors were German.
Hey OC-
That’s all good, but in our current historical and political context, the fact that Obama lived in a poor, Muslim, Asian nation, at whatever age, may in fact be a uniquely valuable asset from a foreign policy perspective.
Not just another country, but a particular kind of other country.
Thanks –
OCSteve–
I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
You’ve been stalking Senator Kennedy? Ah, you Republicans are all alike! 🙂
OCSteve–
I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
You’ve been stalking Senator Kennedy? Ah, you Republicans are all alike! 🙂
OCSteve–
I feel at home in Ted Kennedy’s back yard as well.
You’ve been stalking Senator Kennedy? Ah, you Republicans are all alike! 🙂
“Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this”
HRC probably isn’t feeling very charitable towards a guy who’s using Jeff Gerth framing against her among other cheap shots; Edwards may not want to encourage the whispers that he’s attacking Clinton to their mutual detriment with an eye towards another shot at VP. And, well, they’re competing with him, and he’s not rushing to combat the haircut nonsense or the Hillary-eats-puppies line of the week as far as I know. Still I bet if either were asked directly they would do the right thing, esp. as Fox is the main source of the smear.
“Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this”
HRC probably isn’t feeling very charitable towards a guy who’s using Jeff Gerth framing against her among other cheap shots; Edwards may not want to encourage the whispers that he’s attacking Clinton to their mutual detriment with an eye towards another shot at VP. And, well, they’re competing with him, and he’s not rushing to combat the haircut nonsense or the Hillary-eats-puppies line of the week as far as I know. Still I bet if either were asked directly they would do the right thing, esp. as Fox is the main source of the smear.
“Of course, it is sadly too much to expect the other Democratic candidates to step up to Obama’s defense on this”
HRC probably isn’t feeling very charitable towards a guy who’s using Jeff Gerth framing against her among other cheap shots; Edwards may not want to encourage the whispers that he’s attacking Clinton to their mutual detriment with an eye towards another shot at VP. And, well, they’re competing with him, and he’s not rushing to combat the haircut nonsense or the Hillary-eats-puppies line of the week as far as I know. Still I bet if either were asked directly they would do the right thing, esp. as Fox is the main source of the smear.
fair point, rf, but I think that the madrassah nonsense has been percolating a bit longer than those slights (wasn’t the look at Romney’s missionary experience in France about the same time?) I guess I should be happy that the dems have 3 solid candidates.
fair point, rf, but I think that the madrassah nonsense has been percolating a bit longer than those slights (wasn’t the look at Romney’s missionary experience in France about the same time?) I guess I should be happy that the dems have 3 solid candidates.
fair point, rf, but I think that the madrassah nonsense has been percolating a bit longer than those slights (wasn’t the look at Romney’s missionary experience in France about the same time?) I guess I should be happy that the dems have 3 solid candidates.
Crimso: (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else [Gary Farber]’s not correct about?)
Good question: what else isn’t he correct about? Bullet points will be fine, thanks.
But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
No offense, but lecturing people on civility when a) you’ve just joined the community and b) you’ve been uncivil yourself is exceptionally poor form. I’m sorry you received a brusque welcome; that doesn’t really palliate your initial post in this thread, though.
Crimso: (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else [Gary Farber]’s not correct about?)
Good question: what else isn’t he correct about? Bullet points will be fine, thanks.
But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
No offense, but lecturing people on civility when a) you’ve just joined the community and b) you’ve been uncivil yourself is exceptionally poor form. I’m sorry you received a brusque welcome; that doesn’t really palliate your initial post in this thread, though.
Crimso: (to whom he wrongly attributes Yellow Peril; wonder what else [Gary Farber]’s not correct about?)
Good question: what else isn’t he correct about? Bullet points will be fine, thanks.
But if you want to ever have any chance of swaying anyone with your rhetoric, you really should be a little more accomodating and less contemptuous (or perhaps it’s only sarcasm).
No offense, but lecturing people on civility when a) you’ve just joined the community and b) you’ve been uncivil yourself is exceptionally poor form. I’m sorry you received a brusque welcome; that doesn’t really palliate your initial post in this thread, though.
“Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.”
I highly recommend reading this, from Richard Hofstader in 1964. True then, true today: the places where one can insert trivial updates of references are obvious.
That’s how one recognizes the classics.
“Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.”
I highly recommend reading this, from Richard Hofstader in 1964. True then, true today: the places where one can insert trivial updates of references are obvious.
That’s how one recognizes the classics.
“Political xenophobia — a paranoid fear of the “Other” — is really different in quality than social snobbery or resentment. The “other” is an existential threat, utterly unlike us, who cannot be trusted or negotiated with in good faith. Dopey redneck goobers and/or cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.”
I highly recommend reading this, from Richard Hofstader in 1964. True then, true today: the places where one can insert trivial updates of references are obvious.
That’s how one recognizes the classics.
Thanks for the link, Gary. I was particularly taken with the following in Hofstadter’s essay:
I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.
Thanks for the link, Gary. I was particularly taken with the following in Hofstadter’s essay:
I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.
Thanks for the link, Gary. I was particularly taken with the following in Hofstadter’s essay:
I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.
“I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.”
Oh, well, digressively, passionate arguments between followers of Spengler and Toynbee are old hat. Heck, in the Fifties, James Blish used the differences to underly his “Cities In Flight” series of novels, with a lengthy afterword devoted to explaining how (with the mouthful title of “Probapossible Prolegomena to Ideareal History”).
People with certain types of grandly sweeping and encompassing theories, which aren’t particularly adopted by the mainstream, tend to attract among their followers a considerable number of folks prone to crackpot and semi-crackpot ideas, frankly. Spengler and Toynbee are among the most sane examples of that sort of focus. (Or, for another example of a more modern type prone to crackpot followers and offshoot ideas, see Samuel L. Huntington.)
“I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.”
Oh, well, digressively, passionate arguments between followers of Spengler and Toynbee are old hat. Heck, in the Fifties, James Blish used the differences to underly his “Cities In Flight” series of novels, with a lengthy afterword devoted to explaining how (with the mouthful title of “Probapossible Prolegomena to Ideareal History”).
People with certain types of grandly sweeping and encompassing theories, which aren’t particularly adopted by the mainstream, tend to attract among their followers a considerable number of folks prone to crackpot and semi-crackpot ideas, frankly. Spengler and Toynbee are among the most sane examples of that sort of focus. (Or, for another example of a more modern type prone to crackpot followers and offshoot ideas, see Samuel L. Huntington.)
“I must admit, such a suspicion has never before crossed my mind.”
Oh, well, digressively, passionate arguments between followers of Spengler and Toynbee are old hat. Heck, in the Fifties, James Blish used the differences to underly his “Cities In Flight” series of novels, with a lengthy afterword devoted to explaining how (with the mouthful title of “Probapossible Prolegomena to Ideareal History”).
People with certain types of grandly sweeping and encompassing theories, which aren’t particularly adopted by the mainstream, tend to attract among their followers a considerable number of folks prone to crackpot and semi-crackpot ideas, frankly. Spengler and Toynbee are among the most sane examples of that sort of focus. (Or, for another example of a more modern type prone to crackpot followers and offshoot ideas, see Samuel L. Huntington.)
…cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
Seems to me that the right-wing chowder heads have repeated expressed a desire to pre-emptively nuke “cheese-eating liberal snobs” (cf Coulter, O’LIEly, etc.)
…cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
Seems to me that the right-wing chowder heads have repeated expressed a desire to pre-emptively nuke “cheese-eating liberal snobs” (cf Coulter, O’LIEly, etc.)
…cheese-eating liberal snobs may be objects of derision, they may be disliked, or even hated, but you generally don’t feel the need to pre-emptively nuke them.
Seems to me that the right-wing chowder heads have repeated expressed a desire to pre-emptively nuke “cheese-eating liberal snobs” (cf Coulter, O’LIEly, etc.)
Substantiatively, I don’t think Obama’s growing up in Indonesia means much, but for a certain segment of the population, it is politically useful.
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
For the small chunk of the population that finds themselves frustrated and angry at how insular Americans are and about how ignorant they are of what life is like outside their borders, that kind of signaling is useful. Since every damn candidate has to swear fealty to hunting and NASCAR, a little red meat for the internationalists among us couldn’t hurt.
Substantiatively, I don’t think Obama’s growing up in Indonesia means much, but for a certain segment of the population, it is politically useful.
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
For the small chunk of the population that finds themselves frustrated and angry at how insular Americans are and about how ignorant they are of what life is like outside their borders, that kind of signaling is useful. Since every damn candidate has to swear fealty to hunting and NASCAR, a little red meat for the internationalists among us couldn’t hurt.
Substantiatively, I don’t think Obama’s growing up in Indonesia means much, but for a certain segment of the population, it is politically useful.
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
For the small chunk of the population that finds themselves frustrated and angry at how insular Americans are and about how ignorant they are of what life is like outside their borders, that kind of signaling is useful. Since every damn candidate has to swear fealty to hunting and NASCAR, a little red meat for the internationalists among us couldn’t hurt.
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking [world?] goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Maybe in the Arabic-speaking world, but that is not the meaning imparted to the word in the U.S. KCinDC has it right:
“And of course in English ‘madrassa’ seems to mean something like ‘school run by Islamic extremists’, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.” -KCinDC
Absolutely (on the meaning of madrassa and that it was wrong to say that he attended one). The usage under discussion is the common usage in the USA today, such as here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html and
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/26014.pdf
It would not have been a slur if it just meant “school,” right? Obama went to a public school that only spends (from what I can see) a few hours a week on religious education (and I take it Obama went to Islamic classes although I didn’t see that actually stated).
The DOS doc above states the following about madrassahs:
“Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the Islamic religious schools known as madrasas (or madrassahs) in the Middle East, Central, and Southeast Asia have been of increasing interest to U.S. foreign policymakers. Some allege ties between madrasas and terrorist organizations, such as Al Qaeda, and assert that these religious schools promote Islamic extremism and militancy. Others maintain that most of these religious schools have been blamed unfairly for fostering anti-U.S. sentiments and for producing terrorists. This report provides an overview of madrasas, of their role in the Muslim world and issues related to their alleged financing by Saudi Arabia and other external donors.”
The report says the following about Indonesia:
“Currently, the popularity of madrasas is rising inparts of Southeast Asia. For example in Indonesia, home to the largest number of Muslims in the world, almost 20-25% of primary and secondary school children attend pesantrens (Islamic religious schools).19 In contrast to most madrasas, Indonesian pesantrens have been noted for teaching a moderate form of Islam, one that encompasses Islamic mysticism or Sufism. However, the Saudi-based charity al-Haramayn, some branches of which have been named by the U.S. government as conduits for terrorism, reportedly was operating some educational institutions in Indonesia20 prior to the Saudi government’s 2003 order requiring al-Haramayn to close all of its operations worldwide.”
In short, “Arabic 101” is off the mark as far as I can see just based on current usage in the U.S. However, it is certainly unfair to say Obama attended madrassah.
“It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid.” “Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
In defense of Crimso, I’m not sure what the fuss is all about. Gary’s comment above painted with a broad brush and implied to me that all Repubs are xenophobic. Crimso’s point that phobias of “others” abound on both sides of the aisle is certainly true. Gary clarified. Crimso clarified and even conceded that he may have misunderstood Gary. Enough said. No reason to take that outside IMHO (although LJ, I appreciate the forum).
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking [world?] goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Maybe in the Arabic-speaking world, but that is not the meaning imparted to the word in the U.S. KCinDC has it right:
“And of course in English ‘madrassa’ seems to mean something like ‘school run by Islamic extremists’, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.” -KCinDC
Absolutely (on the meaning of madrassa and that it was wrong to say that he attended one). The usage under discussion is the common usage in the USA today, such as here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html and
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/26014.pdf
It would not have been a slur if it just meant “school,” right? Obama went to a public school that only spends (from what I can see) a few hours a week on religious education (and I take it Obama went to Islamic classes although I didn’t see that actually stated).
The DOS doc above states the following about madrassahs:
“Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the Islamic religious schools known as madrasas (or madrassahs) in the Middle East, Central, and Southeast Asia have been of increasing interest to U.S. foreign policymakers. Some allege ties between madrasas and terrorist organizations, such as Al Qaeda, and assert that these religious schools promote Islamic extremism and militancy. Others maintain that most of these religious schools have been blamed unfairly for fostering anti-U.S. sentiments and for producing terrorists. This report provides an overview of madrasas, of their role in the Muslim world and issues related to their alleged financing by Saudi Arabia and other external donors.”
The report says the following about Indonesia:
“Currently, the popularity of madrasas is rising inparts of Southeast Asia. For example in Indonesia, home to the largest number of Muslims in the world, almost 20-25% of primary and secondary school children attend pesantrens (Islamic religious schools).19 In contrast to most madrasas, Indonesian pesantrens have been noted for teaching a moderate form of Islam, one that encompasses Islamic mysticism or Sufism. However, the Saudi-based charity al-Haramayn, some branches of which have been named by the U.S. government as conduits for terrorism, reportedly was operating some educational institutions in Indonesia20 prior to the Saudi government’s 2003 order requiring al-Haramayn to close all of its operations worldwide.”
In short, “Arabic 101” is off the mark as far as I can see just based on current usage in the U.S. However, it is certainly unfair to say Obama attended madrassah.
“It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid.” “Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
In defense of Crimso, I’m not sure what the fuss is all about. Gary’s comment above painted with a broad brush and implied to me that all Repubs are xenophobic. Crimso’s point that phobias of “others” abound on both sides of the aisle is certainly true. Gary clarified. Crimso clarified and even conceded that he may have misunderstood Gary. Enough said. No reason to take that outside IMHO (although LJ, I appreciate the forum).
“Every kid in the Arabic-speaking [world?] goes to a madrassah. Madrassah is Arabic for school.”
Maybe in the Arabic-speaking world, but that is not the meaning imparted to the word in the U.S. KCinDC has it right:
“And of course in English ‘madrassa’ seems to mean something like ‘school run by Islamic extremists’, so it’s completely wrong to say that Obama attended one.” -KCinDC
Absolutely (on the meaning of madrassa and that it was wrong to say that he attended one). The usage under discussion is the common usage in the USA today, such as here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html and
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/26014.pdf
It would not have been a slur if it just meant “school,” right? Obama went to a public school that only spends (from what I can see) a few hours a week on religious education (and I take it Obama went to Islamic classes although I didn’t see that actually stated).
The DOS doc above states the following about madrassahs:
“Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the Islamic religious schools known as madrasas (or madrassahs) in the Middle East, Central, and Southeast Asia have been of increasing interest to U.S. foreign policymakers. Some allege ties between madrasas and terrorist organizations, such as Al Qaeda, and assert that these religious schools promote Islamic extremism and militancy. Others maintain that most of these religious schools have been blamed unfairly for fostering anti-U.S. sentiments and for producing terrorists. This report provides an overview of madrasas, of their role in the Muslim world and issues related to their alleged financing by Saudi Arabia and other external donors.”
The report says the following about Indonesia:
“Currently, the popularity of madrasas is rising inparts of Southeast Asia. For example in Indonesia, home to the largest number of Muslims in the world, almost 20-25% of primary and secondary school children attend pesantrens (Islamic religious schools).19 In contrast to most madrasas, Indonesian pesantrens have been noted for teaching a moderate form of Islam, one that encompasses Islamic mysticism or Sufism. However, the Saudi-based charity al-Haramayn, some branches of which have been named by the U.S. government as conduits for terrorism, reportedly was operating some educational institutions in Indonesia20 prior to the Saudi government’s 2003 order requiring al-Haramayn to close all of its operations worldwide.”
In short, “Arabic 101” is off the mark as far as I can see just based on current usage in the U.S. However, it is certainly unfair to say Obama attended madrassah.
“It’s in the Republican political DNA, I’m afraid.” “Now I don’t know you at all, so I don’t know if you have contempt for any of the groups I listed. But I am certain there are people reading this that are bigots, just not the kind you think.”
In defense of Crimso, I’m not sure what the fuss is all about. Gary’s comment above painted with a broad brush and implied to me that all Repubs are xenophobic. Crimso’s point that phobias of “others” abound on both sides of the aisle is certainly true. Gary clarified. Crimso clarified and even conceded that he may have misunderstood Gary. Enough said. No reason to take that outside IMHO (although LJ, I appreciate the forum).
The arrogant will have no red meat served to them…
The arrogant will have no red meat served to them…
The arrogant will have no red meat served to them…
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
What “Turbulence” said. With bells on.
I lived briefly overseas as a child, and then extensively as an adult (more than half my life from age twenty onward). This did NOT make me an expert on foreign affairs, by any means; that would have required extensive study, which I did not undertake.
OTOH, it also freed me perforce from the automatic assumption – held by too many other Americans, including some politicians – that the American Way is the Only Way or even (necessarily) the Best Way Under All Circumstances.
This was a salutary experience for me, and the fact that Obama shares and recognizes it strikes me as a plus, albeit not a huge PLUS, in his column.
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
What “Turbulence” said. With bells on.
I lived briefly overseas as a child, and then extensively as an adult (more than half my life from age twenty onward). This did NOT make me an expert on foreign affairs, by any means; that would have required extensive study, which I did not undertake.
OTOH, it also freed me perforce from the automatic assumption – held by too many other Americans, including some politicians – that the American Way is the Only Way or even (necessarily) the Best Way Under All Circumstances.
This was a salutary experience for me, and the fact that Obama shares and recognizes it strikes me as a plus, albeit not a huge PLUS, in his column.
For effete liberal snobs like me who have family all over the world and have traveled to many countries, growing up in Indonesia signals that Obama doesn’t suffer from the classic American ignorance of how the rest of the world works.
I’m not saying that everyone who spends a few years in a foreign elementary school is automatically better at dealing with foreign policy than people who grow up in rural all white towns in the US. But I believe that there is a correlation: people I know who have never spent serious time outside the US are more likely to have (what I consider to be) insane foreign policy beliefs. Part of it may just be the humility associated with being forced to realize that some ideas you hold about people are wrong.
For people like me, Obama’s statement screams “I’m not ignorant about life outside the US”, and that means something. It doesn’t mean nearly as much to me as the list of foreign policy advisers he’s chosen, but for people like me who aren’t following the race as closely…
What “Turbulence” said. With bells on.
I lived briefly overseas as a child, and then extensively as an adult (more than half my life from age twenty onward). This did NOT make me an expert on foreign affairs, by any means; that would have required extensive study, which I did not undertake.
OTOH, it also freed me perforce from the automatic assumption – held by too many other Americans, including some politicians – that the American Way is the Only Way or even (necessarily) the Best Way Under All Circumstances.
This was a salutary experience for me, and the fact that Obama shares and recognizes it strikes me as a plus, albeit not a huge PLUS, in his column.
And with a front-page story featuring the Republican rumor-smear campaign, the Washington Post enthusiastically joins the effort to implant the Obama=Muslim meme:
“Foes Use Obama’s Muslim Ties to Fuel Rumors About Him”
Why, yes. So they do. Some of them have quite powerful tools at their disposal — like the front pages of one of the nation’s most influential newspapers.
And with a front-page story featuring the Republican rumor-smear campaign, the Washington Post enthusiastically joins the effort to implant the Obama=Muslim meme:
“Foes Use Obama’s Muslim Ties to Fuel Rumors About Him”
Why, yes. So they do. Some of them have quite powerful tools at their disposal — like the front pages of one of the nation’s most influential newspapers.
And with a front-page story featuring the Republican rumor-smear campaign, the Washington Post enthusiastically joins the effort to implant the Obama=Muslim meme:
“Foes Use Obama’s Muslim Ties to Fuel Rumors About Him”
Why, yes. So they do. Some of them have quite powerful tools at their disposal — like the front pages of one of the nation’s most influential newspapers.
Josh Marshall cogently lays out why the Post’s story and its prominent placement are offensive, but for my money Bernhard at Moon of Alabama does the best job of showing what’s most offensive about it, for those afflicted by double standards.
With the bonus in another post of an interesting bit of analysis of Syria’s presence at the Annapolis gathering.
Josh Marshall cogently lays out why the Post’s story and its prominent placement are offensive, but for my money Bernhard at Moon of Alabama does the best job of showing what’s most offensive about it, for those afflicted by double standards.
With the bonus in another post of an interesting bit of analysis of Syria’s presence at the Annapolis gathering.
Josh Marshall cogently lays out why the Post’s story and its prominent placement are offensive, but for my money Bernhard at Moon of Alabama does the best job of showing what’s most offensive about it, for those afflicted by double standards.
With the bonus in another post of an interesting bit of analysis of Syria’s presence at the Annapolis gathering.
See TPM for a link to Bacon’s totally lame, point-missing response to the criticism. I’m not anywhere near as furious with Bacon as I am with the editor who decided not only to run this but to front-page it. He/she should be answering to the public.
Can’t wait to see what dodge Post “ombudsman” Deborah Howell will use to miss the point, if she addresses Bacon’s story and its placement at all.
See TPM for a link to Bacon’s totally lame, point-missing response to the criticism. I’m not anywhere near as furious with Bacon as I am with the editor who decided not only to run this but to front-page it. He/she should be answering to the public.
Can’t wait to see what dodge Post “ombudsman” Deborah Howell will use to miss the point, if she addresses Bacon’s story and its placement at all.
See TPM for a link to Bacon’s totally lame, point-missing response to the criticism. I’m not anywhere near as furious with Bacon as I am with the editor who decided not only to run this but to front-page it. He/she should be answering to the public.
Can’t wait to see what dodge Post “ombudsman” Deborah Howell will use to miss the point, if she addresses Bacon’s story and its placement at all.