…I’m with the Mudville Gazette in shaking my head at a candidate whose criticism of a particular activity of Bush’s is so predictable that the satire of said criticism gets published first. I don’t suppose that you guys could find Kerry some better writers?
Please?
This kinda reminds me of that film, Dave, where Kevin Kline replaces the real President and gets to throw out the first pitch at an Oriole game.
I think that if you have to have a staff of people who have to pretect you from being killed 24/7, then you get to do something cool once in a while.
Geez, at least admit that you got it from Instapundit. đ
Anyway, I think Kerry was on to something, sort of, but blew it. The point, I think, is to try and reach the NASCAR dads by telling them that it isn’t in their economic interests to vote for Bush. Bush recognizes, however, that it’s often easier to align than to persuade. The Bush team is really good at pandering to this demographic–he stopped at Bass Proshops last week, for instance, and I think he was even in one of the Bass fishing magazines recently. The Democratic campaign staffs are clueless about this kind of thing, it seems, and the media barely notices.
“Geez, at least admit that you got it from Instapundit. :)”
To be honest, I forget which series of links got me there (Tim Blair? NGD? Instapundit?). Heck, I’m not entirely certain that I didn’t backtrack it through Scrappleface.
As to your point – sure, Kerry was just trying to reach out (or ‘pander’, if you like*) to a particular demographic. He still needs better writers, not to mention somebody that can counsel him on when to try to fit in. I mean, it is unlikely that anybody is ever going to mistake Kerry for somebody keen on NASCAR racing. He’d be better off going for the image of somebody who doesn’t sneer at people keen on NASCAR racing, as frankly it’s going to be assumed that he does sneer until he demonstrates otherwise. Unfair, sure, but it’s an unfair universe.
Moe
* đ
Ah, Scrappleface always pleases, even from thousands of miles away.
Kerry faces a big cultural gap between himself and the so-called NASCAR dads, and it’s not enough for him to just appeal to them on economic grounds (Dean was trying that, wasn’t he?), he has to come across like he actually respects their culture if he wants their vote, and that smug tone of his ain’t gonna cut it. (Kerry can still win without NASCAR dads, mind you.)
Praktike wrote:
Oh I dunno, I think Democrats are rather good at trying to pander what with Terry McCaulifeâs famous âI get this hip-hop thing,â Kerryâs gratuitous F-bomb in Rolling Stone magazine, Edwardsâ âtwo Americas and Iâm the son of a mill workerâ bit, the way every Democratic candidate seems to find a Jewish relative somewhere in their background, and pretty much the entire Gore 2000 campaign*.
The difference though is that Bush does not have to âpanderâ on this because he really does like bass fishing, NASCAR races, Bar-b-que, going to church on Sunday, and the rest of the middle class Americana. While none of this may not be relevant issues-wise, it does help to give him a connection with voters, which makes him a more formidable candidate. Certainly more so than the appeal to anger tact, which may play well against the Democratic lemmings, err I mean âfaithful,â but does not play so well amongst the rational majority.
TW
* Opening up his campaign with âMan I feel like a woman,â telling Hispanic voters that he hoped his grandkid would be born on Cinco De Mayo day, telling Courtney Love he was a âbig fanâ even though he could not name a single song of hers, ad infinitum.
Was it at Yale or Harvard that Bush developed his love for “bass fishing, NASCAR races, Bar-b-que, going to church on Sunday, and the rest of the middle class Americana”?
Um, how is having Jewish relatives pandering?
(I swear, the only other person I’ve seen make that argument is Ann Coulter.)
Whether someone likes NASCAR for real or is just faking it is a bizarre criteria for voting, and I think it’s kind of patronizing to assume that that’s what motivates people. But who knows–the ways of the American voter are mysterious and inscrutable.
Edward wrote:
Probably while he was living in Midland, Texas.
Katherine R wrote:
In and of itself it is not. However when you go out of your way to emphasize the ethnicity of your relations, it comes off as pandering much like Gore telling an Hispanic audience that âI hope my grandchild is born on Cinco DeMayo.â
Probably while he was living in Midland, Texas.
Maybe, but perhaps it’s explained by those lost hours while he was in Alabama.
Er, Thorley. Might wanna get a little more familiar with the Midland ethos:
Author Larry L. King, who went to high school in Midland, described the city for the Observer in 1964 as “where the oillionaires and neanderthal Republicans with low, sloping foreheads and angry John Birchers (in full tremble over flouridation of drinking water and impeaching Earl Warren) play, and the skies are not cloudy all day.”
Not entirely the hardscrabble life.
“Probably while he was living in Midland, Texas.”
Oh, of course. At his huge, cowless dude ranch. He probably watches Nascar on his 3-foot plasma screen like all of the other middle classers and other dead-enders.
Isn’t Bush great? He’s such an empty vessel that you can project whatever lifestyle you want on him. Thorley, who’s never met him, is nonetheless convinced that despite all odds of upbringing and revealed history, Bush is a die-hard angler and Nascar fan. Ah, pandering at work.
Oh, and while we’re slinging cheap shots, allow me to know that Bush “fishes” with worms and a spinning rod in his stocked bass pond.
Wuss.
er, allow me to “note”, not “know”
when you go out of your way to emphasize the ethnicity of your relations
Wasn’t the story of Kerry’s Jewish ancestry broken by the Boston Globe in a story that was meant to cast him in a negative light?
(Also, I call foul on “Democratic lemmings.” Read the posting rules, Mr. Winston.)
Joshua Yockey wrote:
Itâs pretty silly to make such an assumption about someone you have never met. In this case it happens to be untrue.
Really, how so? Since you profess to know so much about it, please share with the group why you think it is that President Bush is not an
angler or what about the demographics of NASCAR fans would preclude him from being a fan.
Matt Weiner wrote:
My earlier comments were not directed at Kerry specifically, although he did apparently try to be pretend to have an Irish ancestor in order to pander to voters. In which case, the claiming a Jewish ancestor with the same intent to pander would fit his MO.
Really, please point to the posting rules I allegedly broke.
Besides youâre supposed to shout âShenanigans!â on this particular forum. đ
“Besides youâre supposed to shout âShenanigans!â on this particular forum. ;)”
Shenanigans, but not out of line with the thread’s general tone (abetted by the original post author); thus, event noted without comment or administrative action. đ
Moe
“Joshua Yockey wrote:”
As paper-thin as lazy anonymity is (look, children, Internic), it seems polite to maintain it to the level indicated by the commenter, don’t you think?
“In this case it happens to be untrue.”
I went with the odds. Would you say you have ‘met’ him to a degree necessary to accurately and authoritatively evaluate his interest in particular pastimes?
“please share with the group…”
I surrender completely on angling. The man obviously appreciates time on the lake, pre-stocked as it may be. On NASCAR, I’m not sure what either link proves. The last indicates he attended an event in a highly public fashion, which we already knew. The first indicates that Nixon did the same thing. If you have any reliable evidence that Bush enjoys NASCAR (I’ll even take Craftsman) racing in the privacy of his own home, please share. Otherwise I’m dubious, just as you and I are dubious that Howard Dean’s favorite music is Wyclef Jean.
Joshua Yockey wrote:
Not when said commenter shows no interest in showing any manners of his own.
And guessed wrong.
In so far as that he liked football, yes. My relatives who live in Texas and met him several times while he was governor though did say that he was rather fond of hunting and fishing. They did not mention NASCAR though.
I am still waiting though for evidence to back up your original assertion that President Bush would not be a NASCAR fan âdespite all odds of upbringing and revealed historyâ when there is nothing in the demographics of said fans which would seem to preclude someone like President Bush or anyone else from being a fan.
OK, Thorley, sidereal’s made it clear that he prefers to be called by his handle and he’s being pretty good about revising his statements. Cut him some slack, ‘kay? đ
I AM going to call shenanigans–and not in a lighthearted way–on deliberately quoting someone’s name after they ask you not to, even if it’s not all that hard to figure out.
(It makes you google-able, for one thing.)
And arguing in a way that irritates you but is in no violation of posting rules is not a justification of anything.
(Especially since most of the lack of manners I can see was directed at the president, and if that’s the standard you could decide you were justified in posting the home address and phone number of half of the left-of-center bloggers in the world. And for God’s sake, it was considerably less rude than plenty of things you’ve said about me.)
“Not when said commenter shows no interest in showing any manners of his own.”
Unless you are either incredibly thin-skinned or George W Bush yourself, nothing I have written could possibly be construed as unmannerly towards you. The only comment I made about you personally was that you believe Bush despite lack of personal knowledge, which, given your proclivities to like him, is certainly no insult to your character.
“And guessed wrong.”
To the extent your meeting relevant to the discussion, as outlined in my previous post, it turns out I was right, though I admit that’s accident, not insight.
“nothing in the demographics”
Desperately hoping I’ll say something like ‘Only dirty hicks like NASCAR’, aren’t you? George Bush isn’t middle class. He isn’t upper class. He’s the scion of an obscenely wealthy New England family who attended Yale and Harvard and went on to ‘work’ on the boards of various corporation. I think it’s accurate to say that this set does not generally fall in for NASCAR. It doesn’t preclude it, of course, but I’d want some evidence to admit there’s an exception here.
The “shenanigan” I was referring to was insulting a group to which posters belong–“Democratic lemmings.” But of course it is for our hosts to judge.
As for the Jewish ancestor thing–the evidence that Kerry ever claimed to have an Irish ancestor really is quite thin. He didn’t go around loudly denying his Irishness, but do you expect him to? And he didn’t particularly claim to have Jewish ancestors either; the Globe revealed that he did, and was quite snarky about it. By these standards, you can take a cheap shot at any Democrat who’s part-Jewish. And I don’t like that.
Anyway, who cares? Bush is upper class. Kerry is upper class. Dean is upper class. Edwards actually has a working-class background. The question is, how will they govern?