by liberal japonicus
Well, rumor here in Japan is that Tokyo will go into strict lockdown relatively soon. One of the reasons Japan has taken a slowly slowly approach, according to this chatter, is that Abe doesn’t want to crash the Nikkei and since March is the end of the fiscal year, April will see it sooner rather than later. While a number of bodies have recommended it, another push is because of the death of Shimura Ken, a very famous TV comedian due to the virus, which seems to have sharpened minds. Imagine if Johnny Carson had gotten it and died.
As to what everyone has to look forward to, a friend of mine in Korea as part of her job works with journalists. A journalist met her and later had a positive test for corona. She got tested and turned out negative, BUT she has to stay at home for 2 weeks. She gets a call twice a day to make sure she is home, she had to put an app on her phone to send information twice a day as well. Her “burough” in Seoul delivered masks, hand sanitizer, cleaner for the house, a trash pouch and a thermometer to her and she has strict instructions not to leave the house. (Fortunately, Korea has a lot of delivery food services, so that’s not a problem) If she is caught going out, there is a 3 million won (about $2,400) fine. And they have flattened the curve…
lj, in possible answer to your earlier question, Dominic Cummings is self-isolating with symptoms.
lj, in possible answer to your earlier question, Dominic Cummings is self-isolating with symptoms.
I expect he’s trying to figure out how to use the virus to destroy the NHS.
I expect he’s trying to figure out how to use the virus to destroy the NHS.
One of the reasons Japan has taken a slowly slowly approach, according to this chatter, is that Abe doesn’t want to crash the Nikkei
How totally Trump-like of him.
One of the reasons Japan has taken a slowly slowly approach, according to this chatter, is that Abe doesn’t want to crash the Nikkei
How totally Trump-like of him.
I expect he’s trying to figure out how to use the virus to destroy the NHS.
The virus may not need any help.
I expect he’s trying to figure out how to use the virus to destroy the NHS.
The virus may not need any help.
There appears to have been an element of luck involved in South Korea’s pandemic response;
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/30/asia-pacific/south-korea-emergency-exercise-coronavirus-testing-containment/
SEOUL – A South Korean tabletop exercise on emergency responses to a fictional mysterious outbreak led directly to tools the country deployed less than a month later to manage the arrival and spread of the coronavirus, one of the experts involved said
According to an undisclosed government document, on Dec. 17 two dozen leading South Korean infectious diseases specialists tackled a worrying scenario: a South Korean family contracts pneumonia after a trip to China, where cases of an unidentified disease had arisen.
The hypothetical disease quickly spreads among the colleagues of the family members and medical workers who treated them. In response, the team of experts at the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) developed an algorithm to find the pathogen and its origin, as well as testing techniques.
Those measures were mobilized in real life when a first suspected coronavirus patient appeared in South Korea on Jan. 20, the document said.
“Looking back over the past 20 years, humans were most tormented by either influenza or coronaviruses, and we’re relatively doing well on influenza but had been worried about the possibility of the outbreak of a novel coronavirus,” said Lee Sang-won, one of the KCDC experts who led the drill….
There appears to have been an element of luck involved in South Korea’s pandemic response;
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/30/asia-pacific/south-korea-emergency-exercise-coronavirus-testing-containment/
SEOUL – A South Korean tabletop exercise on emergency responses to a fictional mysterious outbreak led directly to tools the country deployed less than a month later to manage the arrival and spread of the coronavirus, one of the experts involved said
According to an undisclosed government document, on Dec. 17 two dozen leading South Korean infectious diseases specialists tackled a worrying scenario: a South Korean family contracts pneumonia after a trip to China, where cases of an unidentified disease had arisen.
The hypothetical disease quickly spreads among the colleagues of the family members and medical workers who treated them. In response, the team of experts at the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) developed an algorithm to find the pathogen and its origin, as well as testing techniques.
Those measures were mobilized in real life when a first suspected coronavirus patient appeared in South Korea on Jan. 20, the document said.
“Looking back over the past 20 years, humans were most tormented by either influenza or coronaviruses, and we’re relatively doing well on influenza but had been worried about the possibility of the outbreak of a novel coronavirus,” said Lee Sang-won, one of the KCDC experts who led the drill….
Hopefully, this move will motivate more physicians to start giving these drugs to their patients with COVID-19, possibly in combination with azithromycin, as was used in South Korea.
II have spent a long drinking Corona and told people about being BANNED FOR LIFE along with Thullen by interweb legends hilzoy and Gary Farber.
I see lj has let some of the riff-raff sNeak back in. DaveC
hating on charles bird.
Hopefully, this move will motivate more physicians to start giving these drugs to their patients with COVID-19, possibly in combination with azithromycin, as was used in South Korea.
II have spent a long drinking Corona and told people about being BANNED FOR LIFE along with Thullen by interweb legends hilzoy and Gary Farber.
I see lj has let some of the riff-raff sNeak back in. DaveC
hating on charles bird.
Dr Science appears to me to be a mashup of hikzoy and rilkefan ( secret co-conspirator, not a troll herself)
Dr Science appears to me to be a mashup of hikzoy and rilkefan ( secret co-conspirator, not a troll herself)
I do know that Slartibartfast name is David and
liberal japonicus is a secret conservative Christian as well.
I do know that Slartibartfast name is David and
liberal japonicus is a secret conservative Christian as well.
i have also bothered Edward_ & charleycarp
i have also bothered Edward_ & charleycarp
quiet shout-out to russell.
quiet shout-out to russell.
Christian like von and Sebastian
Christian like von and Sebastian
banned for life, but we didn’t say whose life…
banned for life, but we didn’t say whose life…
…but did you get Banned from Argo?
…but did you get Banned from Argo?
tings were so much better BACK IN THE DAY when commenters had handles like cleek or SnarkiSonofLoki
tings were so much better BACK IN THE DAY when commenters had handles like cleek or SnarkiSonofLoki
should also mention Tacitus and Ugh, friend of lj
should also mention Tacitus and Ugh, friend of lj
Snarki 🙂
will send this Obwi link to my son explaining his dad’s secret life.
would be pretentious to send link to Wikipedia article about Andy Olmsted.
“DaveC dont mention stuff about your family. Its not just saying fuck that we are banning you for.”
Snarki 🙂
will send this Obwi link to my son explaining his dad’s secret life.
would be pretentious to send link to Wikipedia article about Andy Olmsted.
“DaveC dont mention stuff about your family. Its not just saying fuck that we are banning you for.”
“I’m simply trying to exacerbate the situation” MAYORHAROLD (WASHINGTON) – Don Vogel, radio legend
“I’m simply trying to exacerbate the situation” MAYORHAROLD (WASHINGTON) – Don Vogel, radio legend
I also need to point out that DaveC attended a lecture by Martin Heidegger, which clearly makes him a Nazi Buddhist or a Buddhist Nazi.
I also need to point out that DaveC attended a lecture by Martin Heidegger, which clearly makes him a Nazi Buddhist or a Buddhist Nazi.
Testing
Testing
At least lj does not have dementia, of which my wife Angie suspects.
At least lj does not have dementia, of which my wife Angie suspects.
And, we have lots of pasta!
https://xkcd.com/2287/
And, we have lots of pasta!
https://xkcd.com/2287/
rilkefan, Bay Area physicist and poet
BACKINTHEDAY THERE WERE INTERESTING COMMMENTERS
I KEPT A LIST OF WHO WAS WHO
rilkefan, Bay Area physicist and poet
BACKINTHEDAY THERE WERE INTERESTING COMMMENTERS
I KEPT A LIST OF WHO WAS WHO
That xkcd cartoon implicitly makes a point that Sir Peter Medawar made explicitly in his 1959 BBC Reith Lectures: human evolution is in many respects Lamarckian, because humans can inherit acquired traits — though not by genetic means. We don’t have to evolve gills; we can teach the next generation how to make scuba gear. We don’t need to transmit virus resistance to our kids through DNA; we can teach them how to protect themselves better.
Once humans evolved brains, acquired traits became heritable. Good traits AND bad ones, alas.
–TP
That xkcd cartoon implicitly makes a point that Sir Peter Medawar made explicitly in his 1959 BBC Reith Lectures: human evolution is in many respects Lamarckian, because humans can inherit acquired traits — though not by genetic means. We don’t have to evolve gills; we can teach the next generation how to make scuba gear. We don’t need to transmit virus resistance to our kids through DNA; we can teach them how to protect themselves better.
Once humans evolved brains, acquired traits became heritable. Good traits AND bad ones, alas.
–TP
mattbastard CO-CONSPIRATOR
black liberal Canadian TRIFECTA!!!
musicians and programmers have been done, so
mattbastard CO-CONSPIRATOR
black liberal Canadian TRIFECTA!!!
musicians and programmers have been done, so
Once humans evolved brains, acquired traits became heritable.
We have, within a pretty generous range, programmable nervous systems.
Makes us adaptable, but makes no guarantees about the adaptive strategy chosen.
Once humans evolved brains, acquired traits became heritable.
We have, within a pretty generous range, programmable nervous systems.
Makes us adaptable, but makes no guarantees about the adaptive strategy chosen.
BACKINTHEDAY THERE WERE INTERESTING COMMMENTERS
I KEPT A LIST OF WHO WAS WHO
If we’re not interesting any more, why are you here? Has boredom really gotten that bad at your house?
BACKINTHEDAY THERE WERE INTERESTING COMMMENTERS
I KEPT A LIST OF WHO WAS WHO
If we’re not interesting any more, why are you here? Has boredom really gotten that bad at your house?
what wj said.
I really don’t know why this blog should be the drain pipe for some people’s toxic effluents.
But then, who would ever have thought I’d end up being a law and order party of one?
what wj said.
I really don’t know why this blog should be the drain pipe for some people’s toxic effluents.
But then, who would ever have thought I’d end up being a law and order party of one?
who would ever have thought I’d end up being a law and order party of one?
Everybody (who is not a total sociopath) likes law and order. All we really differ on is the implementation, and just where the line is for “too much”.
who would ever have thought I’d end up being a law and order party of one?
Everybody (who is not a total sociopath) likes law and order. All we really differ on is the implementation, and just where the line is for “too much”.
When the Recent Comments list gets too full of pointless, trollish entries from a single commenter, so that you can’t tell which thread the latest real comments can be found in, THAT is “too much”.
–TP
When the Recent Comments list gets too full of pointless, trollish entries from a single commenter, so that you can’t tell which thread the latest real comments can be found in, THAT is “too much”.
–TP
TP: you mean like when I got up this morning….
TP: you mean like when I got up this morning….
I wonder how much the measures being put in place to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus will affect infection rates for other communicable diseases. I haven’t seen or heard anything about that, but I also haven’t sought it out yet, either.
I wonder how much the measures being put in place to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus will affect infection rates for other communicable diseases. I haven’t seen or heard anything about that, but I also haven’t sought it out yet, either.
I read somewhere that the number of flu cases has declined. And the number of deaths from all causes has declined.
I read somewhere that the number of flu cases has declined. And the number of deaths from all causes has declined.
which will be taken as proof that even teh flu is nothing to worry about.
ga-ron-tee.
which will be taken as proof that even teh flu is nothing to worry about.
ga-ron-tee.
“I read somewhere that the number of flu cases has declined. And the number of deaths from all causes has declined.”
Saw that too. Didn’t someone (not here) say ‘hell is other people’?
It’s those damned ‘other people’ that cause many of our problems. The rest are caused by CATS.
“I read somewhere that the number of flu cases has declined. And the number of deaths from all causes has declined.”
Saw that too. Didn’t someone (not here) say ‘hell is other people’?
It’s those damned ‘other people’ that cause many of our problems. The rest are caused by CATS.
It’s those damned ‘other people’ that cause many of our problems. The rest are caused by CATS.
I thought no one saw that movie. Though it’s mere existence could be causative. (I’m breaking a rule that I usually have, which is not to diss something unless I’ve actually seen it. But these times, eh?)
Speaking of these times, this blog is a bit like an 8 hour time machine for me, in that I wake up and find, like a stink bug encased in amber, various exchanges. And in these times, I suppose stronger measures are in order, so if I wake up and find a string of comments by the same person, I’ll put a block on you for 24 hours. How many? Not really sure, depends on how my WiiFit exercise feels. Will I go back and catch everyone who is doing this? Don’t know, haven’t decided.
I heard, and I don’t know if this was a joke or true, but some experts don’t like the term ‘social distancing’ because some people are thinking that this means they shouldn’t use social media. But here, interaction and back and forth exchange is the norm, and given the times, we will enforce it strictly…
It’s those damned ‘other people’ that cause many of our problems. The rest are caused by CATS.
I thought no one saw that movie. Though it’s mere existence could be causative. (I’m breaking a rule that I usually have, which is not to diss something unless I’ve actually seen it. But these times, eh?)
Speaking of these times, this blog is a bit like an 8 hour time machine for me, in that I wake up and find, like a stink bug encased in amber, various exchanges. And in these times, I suppose stronger measures are in order, so if I wake up and find a string of comments by the same person, I’ll put a block on you for 24 hours. How many? Not really sure, depends on how my WiiFit exercise feels. Will I go back and catch everyone who is doing this? Don’t know, haven’t decided.
I heard, and I don’t know if this was a joke or true, but some experts don’t like the term ‘social distancing’ because some people are thinking that this means they shouldn’t use social media. But here, interaction and back and forth exchange is the norm, and given the times, we will enforce it strictly…
At the moment the death rate is down. But, in about nine months, will the birth rate be up?
At the moment the death rate is down. But, in about nine months, will the birth rate be up?
Before that, will we see a divorce blip? I’ve seen speculation about both.
Before that, will we see a divorce blip? I’ve seen speculation about both.
As I sit here tonight thinking of my peers, ok us boomers, our lives now bookended by counting the dead every day. The first decade we were old enough to understand, it was our brothers and friends and classmates being counted in battlefields in a strange land for reasons unclear.
Fighting a villain we weren’t sure existed.
Now, those who have survived are the primary target of another enemy targeting us, not because we are young and healthy but because we are not. Once again the soul dulling count of the dead while politicians pretend some moral stance to use our deaths as pawns in their cruel attempts to gain some political advantage.
The poets of our generation are leaving us faster for this, but not before their deaths remind us our dreams are going to survive this. Everything we grew up believing; peace, love, empathy, caring about each other in spite of the horror of this damned count, will sustain our children and theirs.
Ours is a hopeful generation, this too shall pass, the count will slowly go to less than the media will cover.
Our lives have been good but always bittersweet, we have been watching the count of our dead for most of our lives.
As I sit here tonight thinking of my peers, ok us boomers, our lives now bookended by counting the dead every day. The first decade we were old enough to understand, it was our brothers and friends and classmates being counted in battlefields in a strange land for reasons unclear.
Fighting a villain we weren’t sure existed.
Now, those who have survived are the primary target of another enemy targeting us, not because we are young and healthy but because we are not. Once again the soul dulling count of the dead while politicians pretend some moral stance to use our deaths as pawns in their cruel attempts to gain some political advantage.
The poets of our generation are leaving us faster for this, but not before their deaths remind us our dreams are going to survive this. Everything we grew up believing; peace, love, empathy, caring about each other in spite of the horror of this damned count, will sustain our children and theirs.
Ours is a hopeful generation, this too shall pass, the count will slowly go to less than the media will cover.
Our lives have been good but always bittersweet, we have been watching the count of our dead for most of our lives.
Trump is diverting supplies away from states that didn’t vote for him.
A GOP fundraiser named Mike Gula abruptly quite his day job to open a new business…. selling masks and ventilators. He says he has millions of them. Where did he get them? Quite possibly from the government. On Trump’s orders. How much of a kickback do you think Trump will get?
Our country, our people, are only useful to Trump and the GOP for what they can squeeze ouf of us. They’re looting what they can while they can.
I’m feeling more like John D. Thullen sounds. Every f*cking day.
Trump is diverting supplies away from states that didn’t vote for him.
A GOP fundraiser named Mike Gula abruptly quite his day job to open a new business…. selling masks and ventilators. He says he has millions of them. Where did he get them? Quite possibly from the government. On Trump’s orders. How much of a kickback do you think Trump will get?
Our country, our people, are only useful to Trump and the GOP for what they can squeeze ouf of us. They’re looting what they can while they can.
I’m feeling more like John D. Thullen sounds. Every f*cking day.
Mike Gula article. Trump was talking about PPE “going out the back door”. His mafia associates are organizing this? Every accusation is a confession with him.
This is beyond despicable. And yes, CaseyL, it’s hard to fight that feeling.
Mike Gula article. Trump was talking about PPE “going out the back door”. His mafia associates are organizing this? Every accusation is a confession with him.
This is beyond despicable. And yes, CaseyL, it’s hard to fight that feeling.
Gula:
Here’s an idea for a new parlor game. It’s based on Dante’s Inferno, and it’s called “Which Circle?”. We hear about people like Gula, and we pick which circle of hell they will end up in.
The only problem is, we have to wait until we’re all dead to find out who won.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
Sucks to be us, sometimes.
Gula:
Here’s an idea for a new parlor game. It’s based on Dante’s Inferno, and it’s called “Which Circle?”. We hear about people like Gula, and we pick which circle of hell they will end up in.
The only problem is, we have to wait until we’re all dead to find out who won.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
Sucks to be us, sometimes.
The only problem is, we have to wait until we’re all dead to find out who won.
Sadly, might not be that long a wait for some of us.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
If we figure out how he got them, there most certainly are legal ways to get hold of them. I have no doubt that this is just as shady as it looks.
The only problem is, we have to wait until we’re all dead to find out who won.
Sadly, might not be that long a wait for some of us.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
If we figure out how he got them, there most certainly are legal ways to get hold of them. I have no doubt that this is just as shady as it looks.
If we figure out how he got them
“relationships”. he knows some people. apparently, the rest of us just don’t know the right people.
maybe they fell off the truck.
we’re governed by two-bit mafiosi wanna-bes. and somehow, we put up with it.
it’s remarkable.
If we figure out how he got them
“relationships”. he knows some people. apparently, the rest of us just don’t know the right people.
maybe they fell off the truck.
we’re governed by two-bit mafiosi wanna-bes. and somehow, we put up with it.
it’s remarkable.
we tried to correct the situation. the GOP decided they were cool with it.
it’s all on them.
we tried to correct the situation. the GOP decided they were cool with it.
it’s all on them.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
I wouldn’t bet on that. There might be a way to pull off getting that equipment legally. But given the track record of repeated incompetence that Trump and his flunkies have, it seems rather more likely that they have missed several steps that would be required to get around the law here. Think of it as another Trump University — with the same penalties for all involved. Plus, one hopes jail time for some.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
I wouldn’t bet on that. There might be a way to pull off getting that equipment legally. But given the track record of repeated incompetence that Trump and his flunkies have, it seems rather more likely that they have missed several steps that would be required to get around the law here. Think of it as another Trump University — with the same penalties for all involved. Plus, one hopes jail time for some.
But wj, I’m betting they don’t want to seize it by the equivalent of eminent domain, because they (for whatever value of they) or their “friends” are in it up to their necks.
But wj, I’m betting they don’t want to seize it by the equivalent of eminent domain, because they (for whatever value of they) or their “friends” are in it up to their necks.
Personally, I don’t want to see any more opportunities than there already are for politicians and bureaucrats to get around the law.
Personally, I don’t want to see any more opportunities than there already are for politicians and bureaucrats to get around the law.
masks and the market.
We’ve been indoctrinated over the last 50 years with the idea that free markets in goods and services is the most efficient way to provide things that are needed, to the people and places that need them.
That’s probably not a bad idea, when the conditions for efficient markets exist, and when the inevitable inefficiencies that are created by the distortions and contingencies that are an inherent part of life don’t result in intolerable outcomes.
That is not now.
This is a pandemic with the potential for, by some estimates, half of the people in the country to become infected, for a significant percent of those people to require extraordinary care, and low-single-digit percent of those people to die. “low-single-digit percent” of half the people in the US is, let’s say, 3 to 5 million people.
It’s not likely to get to that point, because leaders at the state and local levels have required people to stay the hell home. But hundreds of thousands of people losing their lives is a realistic possibility. Or, probability.
If that is not a sufficient reason for a vigorous and pro-active public response, at the national level, then I don’t know what is.
The feds aren’t up to the task. Not because national governments are incapable of being up to tasks like this; not because governments are inherently FUBAR.
The feds aren’t up to the task because the federal government has been systematically undermined by two generations of (R) leadership that has absorbed the ideology that ‘government is the problem’.
This is what shitty government looks like.
masks and the market.
We’ve been indoctrinated over the last 50 years with the idea that free markets in goods and services is the most efficient way to provide things that are needed, to the people and places that need them.
That’s probably not a bad idea, when the conditions for efficient markets exist, and when the inevitable inefficiencies that are created by the distortions and contingencies that are an inherent part of life don’t result in intolerable outcomes.
That is not now.
This is a pandemic with the potential for, by some estimates, half of the people in the country to become infected, for a significant percent of those people to require extraordinary care, and low-single-digit percent of those people to die. “low-single-digit percent” of half the people in the US is, let’s say, 3 to 5 million people.
It’s not likely to get to that point, because leaders at the state and local levels have required people to stay the hell home. But hundreds of thousands of people losing their lives is a realistic possibility. Or, probability.
If that is not a sufficient reason for a vigorous and pro-active public response, at the national level, then I don’t know what is.
The feds aren’t up to the task. Not because national governments are incapable of being up to tasks like this; not because governments are inherently FUBAR.
The feds aren’t up to the task because the federal government has been systematically undermined by two generations of (R) leadership that has absorbed the ideology that ‘government is the problem’.
This is what shitty government looks like.
Meanwhile,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wisconsin-goes-it-alone-holding-elections-next-week-amid-fears-of-infection-and-voting-chaos/2020/03/31/8bd801ae-735f-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html
Making it the only state to just go forward with their election.
The (Republican) leaders of the state legislature, which would have to have acted, claim they are concerned about all the city and local governments where terms end right after the election. While over 100 cities, towns, and counties are so short of poll workers that tthey cannot open even a single polling place. Not one!
And then we get to people who are self-isolating, and have requested an absentee ballot. Which, however, requires a witness’s signature. The helpful suggestion: have the postman look in thru the picture window while you vote; he can then sign the envelope. Of course, if you live in an apartment….
Meanwhile,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wisconsin-goes-it-alone-holding-elections-next-week-amid-fears-of-infection-and-voting-chaos/2020/03/31/8bd801ae-735f-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html
Making it the only state to just go forward with their election.
The (Republican) leaders of the state legislature, which would have to have acted, claim they are concerned about all the city and local governments where terms end right after the election. While over 100 cities, towns, and counties are so short of poll workers that tthey cannot open even a single polling place. Not one!
And then we get to people who are self-isolating, and have requested an absentee ballot. Which, however, requires a witness’s signature. The helpful suggestion: have the postman look in thru the picture window while you vote; he can then sign the envelope. Of course, if you live in an apartment….
The feds aren’t up to the task because the federal government has been systematically undermined by two generations of (R) leadership that has absorbed the ideology that ‘government is the problem’.
Self-fulfilling prophesy at its best (or worst).
The feds aren’t up to the task because the federal government has been systematically undermined by two generations of (R) leadership that has absorbed the ideology that ‘government is the problem’.
Self-fulfilling prophesy at its best (or worst).
Here’s some more evidence that the coronavirus patient zero was infected at a research lab in Wuhan, and not at a Wuhan wet market.
“After 2 weeks of painstaking searching, I refute the claim that the Coronavirus started outside of China.”
I Found The Source of the Coronavirus (YouTube)
Here’s some more evidence that the coronavirus patient zero was infected at a research lab in Wuhan, and not at a Wuhan wet market.
“After 2 weeks of painstaking searching, I refute the claim that the Coronavirus started outside of China.”
I Found The Source of the Coronavirus (YouTube)
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
Sucks to be us, sometimes.
Not really. It isn’t easy: following the law, universally presuming innocence, etc. But, it is one of the things that makes living here a good thing.
That said, if Gula benefited by illegal advantage, there will be a price to pay.
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable. You can always argue that if we had just had others in charge and given them more money, things would have worked out better and no one can prove otherwise. I’m not seeing where anyone else is doing materially better than we are and many are doing much worse.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically. Most of this seems to be broadbrush slamming of all conservatives based on the asshattery of some. We are self-quarantining in the heart of Trump country. No one I know is taking this lightly. Everyone is social distancing, practicing careful hygiene, etc.
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist. That’s not so much of a much the farther left you move along the spectrum, but for folks who think the private sector beats a command economy and who are not impressed with the hair-splitters at Slate et al, DT is going to get a lot more votes than if the Dems didn’t have their own extremists–who, for many here, are not extreme at all.
If we figure out how he got them, there most certainly are legal ways to get hold of them. I have no doubt that this is just as shady as it looks.
This assumes he got them illegally, as opposed to unethically. I agree that an immediate investigation is warranted. If there are signs of criminality, the Feds can and should offer leniency in exchange for immediate surrender of all supplies and all profits from the sale of supplies rather than go through a trial and appeal.
Beyond that, I don’t know how you take something away from someone without due process.
There is, no doubt, a sound legal and constitutional argument for why we can’t just seize all of the medical goods Gula has sourced through his “relationships” and distribute them, gratis, to hospitals, cops, and other first responders.
Sucks to be us, sometimes.
Not really. It isn’t easy: following the law, universally presuming innocence, etc. But, it is one of the things that makes living here a good thing.
That said, if Gula benefited by illegal advantage, there will be a price to pay.
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable. You can always argue that if we had just had others in charge and given them more money, things would have worked out better and no one can prove otherwise. I’m not seeing where anyone else is doing materially better than we are and many are doing much worse.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically. Most of this seems to be broadbrush slamming of all conservatives based on the asshattery of some. We are self-quarantining in the heart of Trump country. No one I know is taking this lightly. Everyone is social distancing, practicing careful hygiene, etc.
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist. That’s not so much of a much the farther left you move along the spectrum, but for folks who think the private sector beats a command economy and who are not impressed with the hair-splitters at Slate et al, DT is going to get a lot more votes than if the Dems didn’t have their own extremists–who, for many here, are not extreme at all.
If we figure out how he got them, there most certainly are legal ways to get hold of them. I have no doubt that this is just as shady as it looks.
This assumes he got them illegally, as opposed to unethically. I agree that an immediate investigation is warranted. If there are signs of criminality, the Feds can and should offer leniency in exchange for immediate surrender of all supplies and all profits from the sale of supplies rather than go through a trial and appeal.
Beyond that, I don’t know how you take something away from someone without due process.
Beyond that, I don’t know how you take something away from someone without due process.
Consider: there is currently a “process” by which assets can be seized from someone, even without convicting them of a crime, or even formally charging them**. And without returning those assets, even if they are never charged. So, it shouldn’t be an insurmountable obstacle. (Granted, it’s a much abused function, and ought to be drastically scaled back if not totally dropped. But for the moment, it does exist.)
** Originally intended to seize the assets of drug dealers, if memory serves.
Beyond that, I don’t know how you take something away from someone without due process.
Consider: there is currently a “process” by which assets can be seized from someone, even without convicting them of a crime, or even formally charging them**. And without returning those assets, even if they are never charged. So, it shouldn’t be an insurmountable obstacle. (Granted, it’s a much abused function, and ought to be drastically scaled back if not totally dropped. But for the moment, it does exist.)
** Originally intended to seize the assets of drug dealers, if memory serves.
Headline currently visible on nbcnews.com:
This county of 560,000 has no health department. Republicans said it didn’t need one.
Heading and subhead in the article:
Pennsylvania county facing the coronavirus crisis without a health department
The GOP, which ran Delaware County for years, balked at creating an agency that is now vitally needed, experts say.
If only the media told the truth more often.
Headline currently visible on nbcnews.com:
This county of 560,000 has no health department. Republicans said it didn’t need one.
Heading and subhead in the article:
Pennsylvania county facing the coronavirus crisis without a health department
The GOP, which ran Delaware County for years, balked at creating an agency that is now vitally needed, experts say.
If only the media told the truth more often.
Pitchforks and torches have been used occasionally, McKinney. They’re a lot of fuss and bother, so people don’t generally resort to them frivolously. It takes considerable provocation, which may not be a black-letter legal concept, but people do sometimes recognize it when they see it.
Not advocating pitchforks and torches here, just worrying about them out of concern for my conservative lawyer friends.
–TP
Pitchforks and torches have been used occasionally, McKinney. They’re a lot of fuss and bother, so people don’t generally resort to them frivolously. It takes considerable provocation, which may not be a black-letter legal concept, but people do sometimes recognize it when they see it.
Not advocating pitchforks and torches here, just worrying about them out of concern for my conservative lawyer friends.
–TP
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda
russell is hereby marked safe from accepting PRC propaganda.
I put the odds of Gula being held accountable for “benefit(ing) from illegal advantage” at somewhere between slim and none. It’s highly likely he did nothing illegal. More likely he just knows people who could put him on to sources for PPE and he’s grabbing the gold ring.
Why not? Right?
Follow that line of thought to its conclusion and you will arrive at my point.
I blame Trump for being a toxic fraudulent incompetent blowhard. Feel free to argue the point if you wish.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda
russell is hereby marked safe from accepting PRC propaganda.
I put the odds of Gula being held accountable for “benefit(ing) from illegal advantage” at somewhere between slim and none. It’s highly likely he did nothing illegal. More likely he just knows people who could put him on to sources for PPE and he’s grabbing the gold ring.
Why not? Right?
Follow that line of thought to its conclusion and you will arrive at my point.
I blame Trump for being a toxic fraudulent incompetent blowhard. Feel free to argue the point if you wish.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility
Remarkably irrelevant, counselor. Even if germaine, what public policy flows from this observaton? A lawsuit? A declaration of war?
yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
How dramatic! Every breath you say? There is one inescapable thing that flows directly from this….throw the bum out.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility
Remarkably irrelevant, counselor. Even if germaine, what public policy flows from this observaton? A lawsuit? A declaration of war?
yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
How dramatic! Every breath you say? There is one inescapable thing that flows directly from this….throw the bum out.
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist.
consider looking up the definition of “socialist”. since proper use of terms is key to effective lecturing.
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist.
consider looking up the definition of “socialist”. since proper use of terms is key to effective lecturing.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
Is this a joke? What makes you think anyone is willing to accept (by which I’m assuming you mean something approximating “believe”) current PRC propaganda? If, by “accept,” you mean something more like not being a bit surprised that they would put out false propaganda, then I guess we agree.
I’ve been following the numbers on worldometers.info, and I don’t even bother looking at China’s.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
Is this a joke? What makes you think anyone is willing to accept (by which I’m assuming you mean something approximating “believe”) current PRC propaganda? If, by “accept,” you mean something more like not being a bit surprised that they would put out false propaganda, then I guess we agree.
I’ve been following the numbers on worldometers.info, and I don’t even bother looking at China’s.
consider looking up the definition of “socialist”. since proper use of terms is key to effective lecturing.
That’s partly Bernie’s fault.
consider looking up the definition of “socialist”. since proper use of terms is key to effective lecturing.
That’s partly Bernie’s fault.
Bernie doesn’t seem to know what it means either
Bernie doesn’t seem to know what it means either
What makes you think anyone is willing to accept (by which I’m assuming you mean something approximating “believe”) current PRC propaganda? If, by “accept,” you mean something more like not being a bit surprised that they would put out false propaganda, then I guess we agree.
While I doubt any significant portion of the population believes the PRC’s statements. On the other hand, there does seem to be a segment which finds it convenient to act like they accept the PRC statements. See, for example, the various statements from POTUS about his conversations with Chairman Xi.
What makes you think anyone is willing to accept (by which I’m assuming you mean something approximating “believe”) current PRC propaganda? If, by “accept,” you mean something more like not being a bit surprised that they would put out false propaganda, then I guess we agree.
While I doubt any significant portion of the population believes the PRC’s statements. On the other hand, there does seem to be a segment which finds it convenient to act like they accept the PRC statements. See, for example, the various statements from POTUS about his conversations with Chairman Xi.
We’ve been indoctrinated over the last 50 years with the idea that free markets in goods and services is the most efficient way to provide things that are needed, to the people and places that need them.
It’s important to remember what the word “efficient” means in that sentence. It means the market gets things to those willing to pay the most.
That’s all. I doubt that’s the best measure with respect to medical supplies in a pandemic.
We’ve been indoctrinated over the last 50 years with the idea that free markets in goods and services is the most efficient way to provide things that are needed, to the people and places that need them.
It’s important to remember what the word “efficient” means in that sentence. It means the market gets things to those willing to pay the most.
That’s all. I doubt that’s the best measure with respect to medical supplies in a pandemic.
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
Someone let Cuomo know! He should be spending some breath on that!
Also, if it is PRC propaganda you want
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html
But that would mean that previous discussions about overhyping this were wrong and we underhyped it?
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable.
On the other hand, the claim that we would be better off with less government spending and no centralized direction has been falsified. For most people with eyes and a little bit of empathy. It is also non falsifiable that things would have been better without DT, but that doesn’t seem to get your motor running at all.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/01/trump-breakdown-threaten-sink-presidency-158321
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist.
Someone tell Cuomo he needs to devote some time on his pressers to where ideas like on the left-right spectrum!
But instead of talking about PRC propoganda and some bullshit left-right spectrum, he spent his time talking about inanities like people dying.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
Some in the US remain remarkably willing to accept current PRC propaganda and to spend zero time holding the PRC to account for its criminal irresponsibility, yet spend seemingly every waking breadth finger-pointing domestically.
Someone let Cuomo know! He should be spending some breath on that!
Also, if it is PRC propaganda you want
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html
But that would mean that previous discussions about overhyping this were wrong and we underhyped it?
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable.
On the other hand, the claim that we would be better off with less government spending and no centralized direction has been falsified. For most people with eyes and a little bit of empathy. It is also non falsifiable that things would have been better without DT, but that doesn’t seem to get your motor running at all.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/01/trump-breakdown-threaten-sink-presidency-158321
If you wonder why there are people who vote for DT, consider that the left alternative has a candidate for the presidency who is an unapologetic socialist.
Someone tell Cuomo he needs to devote some time on his pressers to where ideas like on the left-right spectrum!
But instead of talking about PRC propoganda and some bullshit left-right spectrum, he spent his time talking about inanities like people dying.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
Perfection.
(Although in the interests of fairness, I suppose it should be said that McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
Perfection.
(Although in the interests of fairness, I suppose it should be said that McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
One of my earlier comments got lost. Probably not a huge loss, since others have made my points for me.
The PRC government doesn’t do truth. Our government has suffered a huge truth decline under Trump. Truth matters. That said, the PRC government did all that it knew how to do to mandate virus containment. In addition, the Chinese people took it seriously, and stuck with the program. I’m sure a lot of that is routine adherence to totalitarian mandate, but part of it is a cultural desire to be a part of the social effort. It’s not over there: they’re suffering recurrence.
I don’t want an authoritarian government. I don’t want a government whose statements I don’t trust to be factual. We are moving toward a fact-free government, but lack the basic national solidarity to fight this disease in a common effort. The worst of both worlds.
One of my earlier comments got lost. Probably not a huge loss, since others have made my points for me.
The PRC government doesn’t do truth. Our government has suffered a huge truth decline under Trump. Truth matters. That said, the PRC government did all that it knew how to do to mandate virus containment. In addition, the Chinese people took it seriously, and stuck with the program. I’m sure a lot of that is routine adherence to totalitarian mandate, but part of it is a cultural desire to be a part of the social effort. It’s not over there: they’re suffering recurrence.
I don’t want an authoritarian government. I don’t want a government whose statements I don’t trust to be factual. We are moving toward a fact-free government, but lack the basic national solidarity to fight this disease in a common effort. The worst of both worlds.
McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
Yes, but he understands that those are better than having a (god forbid!) socialist!
PRC is going to do what it does. It’s just sad that they don’t/no longer have an example to show how it could be done differently.
McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
Yes, but he understands that those are better than having a (god forbid!) socialist!
PRC is going to do what it does. It’s just sad that they don’t/no longer have an example to show how it could be done differently.
It’s just sad that they don’t/no longer have an example to show how it could be done differently.
This is very true, and some of us were discussing it here just the other day. When the diehard Trumpistas (and Trump) say “Finally we’re respected again!”, the rest of the world (the democratic world, at any rate) laughs incredulously. The damage done to the reputation of the USA, and any respect whatsoever for it, and its institutions (particularly ones like SCOTUS) will probably be impossible to repair, and even if possible would take generations. This is a truly tragic thing for anybody who cares about America, and even the number of those is diminishing.
It’s just sad that they don’t/no longer have an example to show how it could be done differently.
This is very true, and some of us were discussing it here just the other day. When the diehard Trumpistas (and Trump) say “Finally we’re respected again!”, the rest of the world (the democratic world, at any rate) laughs incredulously. The damage done to the reputation of the USA, and any respect whatsoever for it, and its institutions (particularly ones like SCOTUS) will probably be impossible to repair, and even if possible would take generations. This is a truly tragic thing for anybody who cares about America, and even the number of those is diminishing.
Some evidence that the deaths in Wuhan is maybe 15 to 40 times what is being reported.
“The Chinese regime is hiding a massive death toll from the coronavirus pandemic that escaped from Wuhan, China. But how bad is it? “
China Hiding MASSIVE Death Toll from Coronavirus (YouTube)
Some evidence that the deaths in Wuhan is maybe 15 to 40 times what is being reported.
“The Chinese regime is hiding a massive death toll from the coronavirus pandemic that escaped from Wuhan, China. But how bad is it? “
China Hiding MASSIVE Death Toll from Coronavirus (YouTube)
This is a truly tragic thing for anybody who cares about America, and even the number of those is diminishing.
Including in America.
China Hiding MASSIVE Death Toll from Coronavirus
I wouldn’t be surprised if the death toll in Wuhan is huge. That said, where the hell did this Youtube come from? Not trusting anything, not the Chinese government, and not people who have an axe to grind otherwise.
This is the thing: the disease was first discovered in Wuhan, and is believed to have begun there. Wuhan is a city of 11 million people, 3 million people larger than New York. We can assume that there are a whole lot of people who got that virus before anyone knew what to do. We know that the local government there freaked out, and handled things badly at first. The poor doctor who alerted everyone to the problem was first punished, and then died of the virus. No one supports what happened there, and everyone condemns it.
That was in December. By January, the whole country was on lock-down orders of various kinds. Not a hugely delayed response compared to Trump, who knew about this in January, and minimized it until March.
Sure, CharlesWT, we all know that China lied, and that Wuhan suffered in a major way. And that the wonderful, brave, whistleblowing doctor was persecuted. Nobody supports that. Nobody thinks that China is fine. People do know that China did a good job of containing it. People should also know that China hasn’t conquered it: that it’s back, that they’re again closing bars and restaurants. They’re fighting this. What’s the point in dwelling on their propaganda?
This is a truly tragic thing for anybody who cares about America, and even the number of those is diminishing.
Including in America.
China Hiding MASSIVE Death Toll from Coronavirus
I wouldn’t be surprised if the death toll in Wuhan is huge. That said, where the hell did this Youtube come from? Not trusting anything, not the Chinese government, and not people who have an axe to grind otherwise.
This is the thing: the disease was first discovered in Wuhan, and is believed to have begun there. Wuhan is a city of 11 million people, 3 million people larger than New York. We can assume that there are a whole lot of people who got that virus before anyone knew what to do. We know that the local government there freaked out, and handled things badly at first. The poor doctor who alerted everyone to the problem was first punished, and then died of the virus. No one supports what happened there, and everyone condemns it.
That was in December. By January, the whole country was on lock-down orders of various kinds. Not a hugely delayed response compared to Trump, who knew about this in January, and minimized it until March.
Sure, CharlesWT, we all know that China lied, and that Wuhan suffered in a major way. And that the wonderful, brave, whistleblowing doctor was persecuted. Nobody supports that. Nobody thinks that China is fine. People do know that China did a good job of containing it. People should also know that China hasn’t conquered it: that it’s back, that they’re again closing bars and restaurants. They’re fighting this. What’s the point in dwelling on their propaganda?
So, again, not sure what your point is, CharlesWT. If you’re talking about deaths exceeding what would have been okay (not sure what that number would have been), look at Alabama. Okay, where’s the youtube video about the unnecessary deaths that will happen there? And the undercounting, and lying, and failure to serve vulnerable communities?
Oh, I forgot. You libertarians are going to collect the correct numbers using some corporation’s disinterested algorithm!
So, again, not sure what your point is, CharlesWT. If you’re talking about deaths exceeding what would have been okay (not sure what that number would have been), look at Alabama. Okay, where’s the youtube video about the unnecessary deaths that will happen there? And the undercounting, and lying, and failure to serve vulnerable communities?
Oh, I forgot. You libertarians are going to collect the correct numbers using some corporation’s disinterested algorithm!
It just annoys me that the media takes China’s official numbers as gospel and keeps pointing out that the number of deaths in the US has surpassed China’s. Sometimes as an argument that the US should handle the virus like China has.
It just annoys me that the media takes China’s official numbers as gospel and keeps pointing out that the number of deaths in the US has surpassed China’s. Sometimes as an argument that the US should handle the virus like China has.
It just annoys me that the media takes China’s official numbers as gospel and keeps pointing out that the number of deaths in the US has surpassed China’s. Sometimes as an argument that the US should handle the virus like China has.
Could you provide an example of the media extolling China?
As to how we should handle it, I think we should be insist on people staying at home, as China did. As I may have mentioned, I know someone who lives there, and it sucks to be stuck in one’s living space for a couple of months, even though Internet and food delivery is available (and the person I knew got exercise by running in the middle of the night). Having your temperature taken if you wander out for awhile maybe is not really that bad.
I know that China is lying about its numbers. I don’t think it’s lying about the fact that it temporarily (even if it’s going up again) brought things into a better place.
We have no way of knowing that, but our own stats are very sketchy, even using numbers produced by people working in good faith. (Thank goodness we have state governments that are in some way legit.) I don’t trust Trump at all – he has betrayed our trust in so many ways that I just don’t pay attention to him or his people, even though I know that there are old-style bureaucrats trying to keep it together.
And you don’t have any room to talk about what good government looks like, CharlesWT, since you are all about tearing it up. So sorry, you lose.
It just annoys me that the media takes China’s official numbers as gospel and keeps pointing out that the number of deaths in the US has surpassed China’s. Sometimes as an argument that the US should handle the virus like China has.
Could you provide an example of the media extolling China?
As to how we should handle it, I think we should be insist on people staying at home, as China did. As I may have mentioned, I know someone who lives there, and it sucks to be stuck in one’s living space for a couple of months, even though Internet and food delivery is available (and the person I knew got exercise by running in the middle of the night). Having your temperature taken if you wander out for awhile maybe is not really that bad.
I know that China is lying about its numbers. I don’t think it’s lying about the fact that it temporarily (even if it’s going up again) brought things into a better place.
We have no way of knowing that, but our own stats are very sketchy, even using numbers produced by people working in good faith. (Thank goodness we have state governments that are in some way legit.) I don’t trust Trump at all – he has betrayed our trust in so many ways that I just don’t pay attention to him or his people, even though I know that there are old-style bureaucrats trying to keep it together.
And you don’t have any room to talk about what good government looks like, CharlesWT, since you are all about tearing it up. So sorry, you lose.
The media I see has been reporting that it appears cremations have been going on constantly in China – evidence that China’s under-reporting the real numbers. Whatever makes you feel disgruntled is what you’ll see, I guess.
The media I see has been reporting that it appears cremations have been going on constantly in China – evidence that China’s under-reporting the real numbers. Whatever makes you feel disgruntled is what you’ll see, I guess.
Not hearing from CharlesWT about how lack of government helps here. This is an example of how disdain for government’s role has a detrimental effect.
Wouldn’t mind McKinney commenting either. I know that McKinney doesn’t style himself a libertarian, or have any views that one can pin down. He’s kind of squishy, and can glom on to whatever seems successful. Convenient.
Not hearing from CharlesWT about how lack of government helps here. This is an example of how disdain for government’s role has a detrimental effect.
Wouldn’t mind McKinney commenting either. I know that McKinney doesn’t style himself a libertarian, or have any views that one can pin down. He’s kind of squishy, and can glom on to whatever seems successful. Convenient.
This, no doubt, because the “official numbers” for both China and the US are being used as direct comparisons.
Because we don’t have anything else to go by that isn’t fraught with uncertainty and bias.
You don’t need to tell me about the media controls in China. As of Monday, I have students in my current classes that are taking their courses remotely from China – in quarantine camps, where they will remain for the first two weeks of their return.
I’ve exchanged emails with them about VPNs and access to course related information and other constraints that they might be working through. We know what they can and cannot access, even if they are not free to discuss everything with us.
I’ve been in personal contact with all of this since Christmas Break was over and my kids started showing up to class in masks and scared to death.
This, no doubt, because the “official numbers” for both China and the US are being used as direct comparisons.
Because we don’t have anything else to go by that isn’t fraught with uncertainty and bias.
You don’t need to tell me about the media controls in China. As of Monday, I have students in my current classes that are taking their courses remotely from China – in quarantine camps, where they will remain for the first two weeks of their return.
I’ve exchanged emails with them about VPNs and access to course related information and other constraints that they might be working through. We know what they can and cannot access, even if they are not free to discuss everything with us.
I’ve been in personal contact with all of this since Christmas Break was over and my kids started showing up to class in masks and scared to death.
I’ve been in personal contact with all of this since Christmas Break was over and my kids started showing up to class in masks and scared to death.
You’re the best, nous. I know that Chinese students from Wuhan have needed to apologize for their existence, and to tell people that, no, they don’t eat wild animals. I am heartbroken by the promise of Chinese students whose families have given everything to come to United States universities.
We’re all in this together, folks. The whole world. We have imperfect governments dealing with it (and we, the US, have every reason to dismiss our current controlling party). Let’s not be pointing fingers.
I’ve been in personal contact with all of this since Christmas Break was over and my kids started showing up to class in masks and scared to death.
You’re the best, nous. I know that Chinese students from Wuhan have needed to apologize for their existence, and to tell people that, no, they don’t eat wild animals. I am heartbroken by the promise of Chinese students whose families have given everything to come to United States universities.
We’re all in this together, folks. The whole world. We have imperfect governments dealing with it (and we, the US, have every reason to dismiss our current controlling party). Let’s not be pointing fingers.
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable.
On the other hand, the claim that we would be better off with less government spending and no centralized direction has been falsified. For most people with eyes and a little bit of empathy. It is also non falsifiable that things would have been better without DT, but that doesn’t seem to get your motor running at all.
FWIW, we are about to embark on a pretty astounding level of government spending. A lot of it will probably be helpful, certainly some of it will not. Some amount of it will have no effect whatsoever on the management of COVID-19.
All kinds of folks are going to see what they can tuck into the great humanitarian outflow of federal money.
Nobody is criticizing Trump for not spending money. People are criticizing Trump for failing to grasp the risk to the American people posed by COVID-19, even when it was pointed out to him. For not only failing to prepare for things like this, even when they were brought to his attention as possibilities that required attention, but for having spent the last 3 years actually undermining existing capabilities.
People criticize Trump for holding grandstanding daily briefings featuring notables like Mr. MyPillow, where we are all exhorted to read our Bibles while people sicken and die.
In brief, people criticize Trump for being a sleeveless fuckwit jackass.
China
Our response to COVID-19 is and was in no way dependent on anything China does or did. We – people in positions of responsibility in US government – have known about the dangers posed by COVID-19 since at least January.
It is now April.
The Chinese will settle their own hash. What China did or did not do, and did or did not say, has bugger-all to do with the discussion of how *we* are handling this.
I doubt that’s the best measure with respect to medical supplies in a pandemic.
^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thank you, Bernie.
The claim that we would be a lot better off with more government spending, and more centralized direction–regardless of DT’s obvious shortcomings–is non-falsifiable.
On the other hand, the claim that we would be better off with less government spending and no centralized direction has been falsified. For most people with eyes and a little bit of empathy. It is also non falsifiable that things would have been better without DT, but that doesn’t seem to get your motor running at all.
FWIW, we are about to embark on a pretty astounding level of government spending. A lot of it will probably be helpful, certainly some of it will not. Some amount of it will have no effect whatsoever on the management of COVID-19.
All kinds of folks are going to see what they can tuck into the great humanitarian outflow of federal money.
Nobody is criticizing Trump for not spending money. People are criticizing Trump for failing to grasp the risk to the American people posed by COVID-19, even when it was pointed out to him. For not only failing to prepare for things like this, even when they were brought to his attention as possibilities that required attention, but for having spent the last 3 years actually undermining existing capabilities.
People criticize Trump for holding grandstanding daily briefings featuring notables like Mr. MyPillow, where we are all exhorted to read our Bibles while people sicken and die.
In brief, people criticize Trump for being a sleeveless fuckwit jackass.
China
Our response to COVID-19 is and was in no way dependent on anything China does or did. We – people in positions of responsibility in US government – have known about the dangers posed by COVID-19 since at least January.
It is now April.
The Chinese will settle their own hash. What China did or did not do, and did or did not say, has bugger-all to do with the discussion of how *we* are handling this.
I doubt that’s the best measure with respect to medical supplies in a pandemic.
^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thank you, Bernie.
Let’s not be pointing fingers??? That’s really all we do here, as sick and useless as that is, this thread is nothing but pointing fingers. In fact that comment is buried in finger pointing.
I could make a case that Cuomo is clearly the most incompetent Governor, perhaps government official, in the world. It took him way too long to lock down NYC blah blah.
But I’m not saying that, I’m saying if we are all in this together I’m sure he did the best he could and continues to (although it can be irritating that he blames all of his failures on someone else. Sound familiar)?
I will also add that if Trump had shut down the whole country on February 20th every Dem in the country would have accused him of using the crisis to take over the country. The Dem governors would have refused and there would be almost no difference in the current outcomes.
Let’s not be pointing fingers??? That’s really all we do here, as sick and useless as that is, this thread is nothing but pointing fingers. In fact that comment is buried in finger pointing.
I could make a case that Cuomo is clearly the most incompetent Governor, perhaps government official, in the world. It took him way too long to lock down NYC blah blah.
But I’m not saying that, I’m saying if we are all in this together I’m sure he did the best he could and continues to (although it can be irritating that he blames all of his failures on someone else. Sound familiar)?
I will also add that if Trump had shut down the whole country on February 20th every Dem in the country would have accused him of using the crisis to take over the country. The Dem governors would have refused and there would be almost no difference in the current outcomes.
sleeveless fuckwit jackass
I am retiring “Clickbait” as of this evening, and stealing this. Maybe “SFJ” for short, as our own little ObWi inside joke.
And russell, in case anyone reads your comment without searching back to see whom you’re quoting — “Bernie” is byomtov, not Sanders. Credit where it’s due.
sleeveless fuckwit jackass
I am retiring “Clickbait” as of this evening, and stealing this. Maybe “SFJ” for short, as our own little ObWi inside joke.
And russell, in case anyone reads your comment without searching back to see whom you’re quoting — “Bernie” is byomtov, not Sanders. Credit where it’s due.
The Chinese will settle their own hash. What China did or did not do, and did or did not say, has bugger-all to do with the discussion of how *we* are handling this.
No, actually, they did do stuff, and some of it was extremely effective. Their reaction didn’t kill it there. It helped though, and the virus is back, but what they did is instructive. I know you’re all about “local”, russell, but sometimes (now) this is a global thing. It’s humans versus the virus. [Not sure about other parts of our environment which may be benefitting by our travel deficit.]
The Chinese will settle their own hash. What China did or did not do, and did or did not say, has bugger-all to do with the discussion of how *we* are handling this.
No, actually, they did do stuff, and some of it was extremely effective. Their reaction didn’t kill it there. It helped though, and the virus is back, but what they did is instructive. I know you’re all about “local”, russell, but sometimes (now) this is a global thing. It’s humans versus the virus. [Not sure about other parts of our environment which may be benefitting by our travel deficit.]
if Trump had shut down the whole country on February 20th
Our sleeveless fuckwit jackass probably doesn’t have the authority to do this, and nobody expects him to do this.
People expect him to do the things he can do. He did not do them, in fact has spent the last 3 years undermining our capability to do them, and is making a shambles of doing them now.
Let’s leave partisan politics out of this. The president, as an individual person independent of his party affiliation, is grossly unsuited to the position he holds. And since it is a position of enormous public responsibility, a lot of people are therefore going to suffer.
Understandably, this provokes a response in many if not most people.
Some people dig the guy, I not only don’t understand why, I’m not sure I want to.
I’m saving my kum-ba-ya moments for situations where they are useful. Uniting under the banner of our fearless leader is not one of them. He has no clue.
The federal response, to the degree that Trump is leading it, is not going to be effective. Not for partisan reasons, but for reasons having to do with the character and capabilities of Trump and of the people he surrounds himself with. They suck.
Support your state and local leadership in dealing with this.
if Trump had shut down the whole country on February 20th
Our sleeveless fuckwit jackass probably doesn’t have the authority to do this, and nobody expects him to do this.
People expect him to do the things he can do. He did not do them, in fact has spent the last 3 years undermining our capability to do them, and is making a shambles of doing them now.
Let’s leave partisan politics out of this. The president, as an individual person independent of his party affiliation, is grossly unsuited to the position he holds. And since it is a position of enormous public responsibility, a lot of people are therefore going to suffer.
Understandably, this provokes a response in many if not most people.
Some people dig the guy, I not only don’t understand why, I’m not sure I want to.
I’m saving my kum-ba-ya moments for situations where they are useful. Uniting under the banner of our fearless leader is not one of them. He has no clue.
The federal response, to the degree that Trump is leading it, is not going to be effective. Not for partisan reasons, but for reasons having to do with the character and capabilities of Trump and of the people he surrounds himself with. They suck.
Support your state and local leadership in dealing with this.
I’m sure he did the best he could and continues to
I agree.
I’m sure he did the best he could and continues to
I agree.
Here’s what I blame Trump for. Even with every expert in the room telling him that this is serious business and that social distancing is crucial for managing the impact on hospitals, he hasn’t the character or the ability to take in the vital information and make an informed decision that puts the whole of the country ahead of his own self-interest.
He has not once spoken in public about COVID-19 without lying, deflecting, and endangering the public with his falsehoods. He’s the student who didn’t do the reading who is standing in front of the class and bullshitting his way through the presentation. Except not reading this book is going to kill a lot of people that did not need to die.
See also Puerto Rico.
And yet Fox and the congressional GOP continue to prop this dangerous incompetent up, calculating that doing otherwise might end their political careers, bodies be damned.
So, yeah, finger pointing.
Guess which one.
And another finger for the fascists in ICE who are raiding away through this all and hauling more people into the horrible danger of incarceration during a time of pandemic.
Our bigoted, carceral state is going to have quite the body count itself by the time this is done.
Here’s what I blame Trump for. Even with every expert in the room telling him that this is serious business and that social distancing is crucial for managing the impact on hospitals, he hasn’t the character or the ability to take in the vital information and make an informed decision that puts the whole of the country ahead of his own self-interest.
He has not once spoken in public about COVID-19 without lying, deflecting, and endangering the public with his falsehoods. He’s the student who didn’t do the reading who is standing in front of the class and bullshitting his way through the presentation. Except not reading this book is going to kill a lot of people that did not need to die.
See also Puerto Rico.
And yet Fox and the congressional GOP continue to prop this dangerous incompetent up, calculating that doing otherwise might end their political careers, bodies be damned.
So, yeah, finger pointing.
Guess which one.
And another finger for the fascists in ICE who are raiding away through this all and hauling more people into the horrible danger of incarceration during a time of pandemic.
Our bigoted, carceral state is going to have quite the body count itself by the time this is done.
No, actually, they did do stuff, and some of it was extremely effective.
I agree.
That’s not my point. My point is that arguing about what the Chinese did or did not do has bugger-all to do with what we did or did not do.
Whether there is merit to criticisms of the Chinese or not, “Yeah, but the Chinese!” is weak beer. Time to stop drinking weak beer.
I know you’re all about “local”, russell
Actually I’m not. I’d love to see a vigorous and effective national response. Sorry if I haven’t made that clear.
It’s been three months and a vigorous and effective national response seems to be…. lacking. So if I say reach out to state and local actors, it’s because I don’t think the feds are going to be a reliable source of aid.
Congress, maybe, at least in terms of funding. As far as executive effectiveness, it’s not there. It’s above the pay grade, and outside the skill set, of the folks driving the bus.
People think that because somebody is rich and on the TV and shits in a gold toilet, that person must actually be good at something other than accumulating money and showing up on TV and shitting in a gold toilet.
Joke’s on them.
No, actually, they did do stuff, and some of it was extremely effective.
I agree.
That’s not my point. My point is that arguing about what the Chinese did or did not do has bugger-all to do with what we did or did not do.
Whether there is merit to criticisms of the Chinese or not, “Yeah, but the Chinese!” is weak beer. Time to stop drinking weak beer.
I know you’re all about “local”, russell
Actually I’m not. I’d love to see a vigorous and effective national response. Sorry if I haven’t made that clear.
It’s been three months and a vigorous and effective national response seems to be…. lacking. So if I say reach out to state and local actors, it’s because I don’t think the feds are going to be a reliable source of aid.
Congress, maybe, at least in terms of funding. As far as executive effectiveness, it’s not there. It’s above the pay grade, and outside the skill set, of the folks driving the bus.
People think that because somebody is rich and on the TV and shits in a gold toilet, that person must actually be good at something other than accumulating money and showing up on TV and shitting in a gold toilet.
Joke’s on them.
“Support your state and local leadership in dealing with this”
Which is basically how our emergency response is organized in the US. The federal support for that has been slow, but improving, some states have responded better than others. Florida sucks. My family there worries me.
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
“Support your state and local leadership in dealing with this”
Which is basically how our emergency response is organized in the US. The federal support for that has been slow, but improving, some states have responded better than others. Florida sucks. My family there worries me.
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
I’d love to see a vigorous and effective national response.
More than that.
I’d love to see this country, the richest fucking country on the face of the earth and possibly in history, inheritor of some of the best political traditions on earth and possibly in history, actually provide some leadership to the world in addressing this pandemic.
That won’t happen. We have stepped away from that kind of role.
America First.
So, I’d settle for a vigorous national response if that was on offer. It’s not.
So, I’ll make do with reaching out to state and local actors to make sure my community isn’t fucking gutted by this.
We have given the executive responsibility for the nation to a sleeveless fuckwit jackass. Not only that, we knew we were doing it, and the fact that he was a sleeveless fuckwit jackass was no small part of his appeal.
We’ve spent the last 50 years absorbing the doctrine that government sucks. So, now we have a government that sucks.
Sow and reap.
Support your state and local folks and do what you can to help out your neighbors. Wash your hands and stay the hell home.
I’d love to see a vigorous and effective national response.
More than that.
I’d love to see this country, the richest fucking country on the face of the earth and possibly in history, inheritor of some of the best political traditions on earth and possibly in history, actually provide some leadership to the world in addressing this pandemic.
That won’t happen. We have stepped away from that kind of role.
America First.
So, I’d settle for a vigorous national response if that was on offer. It’s not.
So, I’ll make do with reaching out to state and local actors to make sure my community isn’t fucking gutted by this.
We have given the executive responsibility for the nation to a sleeveless fuckwit jackass. Not only that, we knew we were doing it, and the fact that he was a sleeveless fuckwit jackass was no small part of his appeal.
We’ve spent the last 50 years absorbing the doctrine that government sucks. So, now we have a government that sucks.
Sow and reap.
Support your state and local folks and do what you can to help out your neighbors. Wash your hands and stay the hell home.
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
I agree. It’s a virus. It’s a little ball of RNA wrapped in a lipid layer with spikes that know how to bond to human cells.
It’s nature.
‘Even jackass’ is largely responsible for the balky and incompetent federal response. That, and no more than that, is what I hold him to account for.
And that’s actually no small thing.
We’ll work around him.
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
I agree. It’s a virus. It’s a little ball of RNA wrapped in a lipid layer with spikes that know how to bond to human cells.
It’s nature.
‘Even jackass’ is largely responsible for the balky and incompetent federal response. That, and no more than that, is what I hold him to account for.
And that’s actually no small thing.
We’ll work around him.
Or maybe russell, federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this.
If you think there has been any diminishment of governments control and intervention in our lives over the last 50 years you live in a different country than I do. The feds now touch literally every part of our lives from conception to the grave, we spend 4 trillion dollars a year so they can do that. But when we really need them they are too busy fighting over 3 billion dollar budget items and sneaking in money for public television to focus on the few things they should be doing. Like a coronavirus plan and a road without holes in it.
Or maybe russell, federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this.
If you think there has been any diminishment of governments control and intervention in our lives over the last 50 years you live in a different country than I do. The feds now touch literally every part of our lives from conception to the grave, we spend 4 trillion dollars a year so they can do that. But when we really need them they are too busy fighting over 3 billion dollar budget items and sneaking in money for public television to focus on the few things they should be doing. Like a coronavirus plan and a road without holes in it.
sneaking in money for public television
It would be nice to have a public television channel that could put out reliable information that people could turn to rather than depend on an outfit like Fox. Just saying.
sneaking in money for public television
It would be nice to have a public television channel that could put out reliable information that people could turn to rather than depend on an outfit like Fox. Just saying.
Dave C and I are standing by, fully jacked up for new asshole tearing.
Back to stalking.
Dave C and I are standing by, fully jacked up for new asshole tearing.
Back to stalking.
federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this.
Yeah, that must be it.
Trump is in over his head, and to top it off he’s being a dick about it, on a daily basis. Because that’s kind of who he is. He’s an entitled cowardly blowhard who blames everybody else for everything.
So let’s just ignore him, work around him, and do our best to deal with this. I’m more than happy to talk about something else.
Over and out. Good night all.
federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this.
Yeah, that must be it.
Trump is in over his head, and to top it off he’s being a dick about it, on a daily basis. Because that’s kind of who he is. He’s an entitled cowardly blowhard who blames everybody else for everything.
So let’s just ignore him, work around him, and do our best to deal with this. I’m more than happy to talk about something else.
Over and out. Good night all.
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/legislation/2020/03/what-the-2t-coronavirus-stimulus-means-for-federal-employees-retirees-and-contractors/
Takeaway: The Deep State gets some Deep Cleaning
“The General Services Administration’s Federal Buildings Fund, for example, will receive an additional $275 million for “deep cleaning” efforts at federal facilities, as well as additional screening and unanticipated space requirements.”
That’s gotta hurt, Marty.
Too bad we can’t reduce the federal “headcount” on behalf of murderous Irish conservatives like Mulvaney and his mother by letting the civil service pick up the Trump virus at work.
Bye.
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/legislation/2020/03/what-the-2t-coronavirus-stimulus-means-for-federal-employees-retirees-and-contractors/
Takeaway: The Deep State gets some Deep Cleaning
“The General Services Administration’s Federal Buildings Fund, for example, will receive an additional $275 million for “deep cleaning” efforts at federal facilities, as well as additional screening and unanticipated space requirements.”
That’s gotta hurt, Marty.
Too bad we can’t reduce the federal “headcount” on behalf of murderous Irish conservatives like Mulvaney and his mother by letting the civil service pick up the Trump virus at work.
Bye.
federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this
Yeah, it’s just DEPLORABLE how the federal government, just spontaneously, totally independent of Trump and his MAGAtarian minions, disbanded that National Security Council Pandemic Task Force.
Trump did say he “wasn’t responsible” for that, and we all know how totally honest Trump is about absolutely everything always.
Not pointing fingers. Flame throwers, we’ll see.
federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at. Like this
Yeah, it’s just DEPLORABLE how the federal government, just spontaneously, totally independent of Trump and his MAGAtarian minions, disbanded that National Security Council Pandemic Task Force.
Trump did say he “wasn’t responsible” for that, and we all know how totally honest Trump is about absolutely everything always.
Not pointing fingers. Flame throwers, we’ll see.
“No pointing fingers” is another way to say “Let’s look forward, not back.”
Like after 9-11; like after Iraq was so obviously a major clusterf*ck; like after Bush let New Orleans drown; like after the crash in 2008; like after Trump let Puerto Rico rot; like after Trump “lost” a few thousand children who had been torn from their parents… and now, after the much-worse-than-it-should-have-been pandemic. Always look forward, not back; never point fingers.
The GOP does this every goddamn time to make sure that their corruption, incompetence, and cruelty get swept under the rug.
But that’s only for the GOP. Only the GOP gets to whitewash itself and gaslight us over and over again.
Different rules for Democrats. For Democrats, the GOP will invent scandals and then investigate those non-existent scandals over and over and over again. Remember Benghazi?
I hope there are tribunals for the inaction, the sabotage, the incompetence, the favoritism, and the profiteering that are what the GOP and Trump have offered the country during this pandemic. I hope there are prison terms and executions.
“No pointing fingers” is another way to say “Let’s look forward, not back.”
Like after 9-11; like after Iraq was so obviously a major clusterf*ck; like after Bush let New Orleans drown; like after the crash in 2008; like after Trump let Puerto Rico rot; like after Trump “lost” a few thousand children who had been torn from their parents… and now, after the much-worse-than-it-should-have-been pandemic. Always look forward, not back; never point fingers.
The GOP does this every goddamn time to make sure that their corruption, incompetence, and cruelty get swept under the rug.
But that’s only for the GOP. Only the GOP gets to whitewash itself and gaslight us over and over again.
Different rules for Democrats. For Democrats, the GOP will invent scandals and then investigate those non-existent scandals over and over and over again. Remember Benghazi?
I hope there are tribunals for the inaction, the sabotage, the incompetence, the favoritism, and the profiteering that are what the GOP and Trump have offered the country during this pandemic. I hope there are prison terms and executions.
Don’t want to be too hard here on Marty, was hoping to get the skinny on the simulus bill. I can make a new post if we want to talk about it separately.
Don’t want to be too hard here on Marty, was hoping to get the skinny on the simulus bill. I can make a new post if we want to talk about it separately.
And something to consider for those who want to get on the China is fooling us
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/hidden-mortality-in-spain
Of course, when Spaniards or Italians do it, they were just overwhelmed, when Chinese do it, it’s with malice aforetought. Serves em right for not believing in the germ theory…
And something to consider for those who want to get on the China is fooling us
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/hidden-mortality-in-spain
Of course, when Spaniards or Italians do it, they were just overwhelmed, when Chinese do it, it’s with malice aforetought. Serves em right for not believing in the germ theory…
Hey, dagos are conniving, dastardly weasels, don’t ye know? 😉
Weren’t they the gold standard* on that before anyone in Europe even had the idea to put any moniker on those yeller bar studs?**
Keep the prejudices well sorted and filed ready for use when the opportunity arises.
*they had all the gold until the limeys nicked it, hadn’t they?
**OK, the go-to were the guys with the yellow hats but there were tons of them in Spain before 1492, so cross-pollination was natural.
[Sorry, no proper (English) slants or slander against Italians coming to mind not mafia related]
Hey, dagos are conniving, dastardly weasels, don’t ye know? 😉
Weren’t they the gold standard* on that before anyone in Europe even had the idea to put any moniker on those yeller bar studs?**
Keep the prejudices well sorted and filed ready for use when the opportunity arises.
*they had all the gold until the limeys nicked it, hadn’t they?
**OK, the go-to were the guys with the yellow hats but there were tons of them in Spain before 1492, so cross-pollination was natural.
[Sorry, no proper (English) slants or slander against Italians coming to mind not mafia related]
Addendum to previous post: When the Black Death stalked Europe it was a common (and iirc deliberately spread by authorities) belief that it came from Moorish Spain and got spread by Jews in cahoots with the Muslims via well-poisoning. In the current times of corona extremists try to resuscitate it in a modern form (i.e. Jews in cahoots with some other enemy du jour are responsible for the pandemic as part of some nefarious plan).
Addendum to previous post: When the Black Death stalked Europe it was a common (and iirc deliberately spread by authorities) belief that it came from Moorish Spain and got spread by Jews in cahoots with the Muslims via well-poisoning. In the current times of corona extremists try to resuscitate it in a modern form (i.e. Jews in cahoots with some other enemy du jour are responsible for the pandemic as part of some nefarious plan).
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
Marty, this is true, as others have said.
But Jackass has lied since the beginning, and continues to lie, and (truth of this still to be determined) it looks like he is prioritising the medical and aid needs of states whose governors are “appreciative”. This certainly would be in character. He seems to think that presidential press conferences are purely for propaganda purposes, sees no problem with accusing reporters who try to do their job and hold the executive to account of being “nasty”, and does everything he can to keep the American people in the dark. Meanwhile, people on (very roughly) your side of the aisle spin dangerous falsehoods about Fauci, because as a truth-teller he is seen as endangering the Jackass project, to the point where he needs extra security protection.
It seems you have to work really hard to spin this as a bipartisan fuckup.
No single person, even jackass, is the reason this is happening.
Marty, this is true, as others have said.
But Jackass has lied since the beginning, and continues to lie, and (truth of this still to be determined) it looks like he is prioritising the medical and aid needs of states whose governors are “appreciative”. This certainly would be in character. He seems to think that presidential press conferences are purely for propaganda purposes, sees no problem with accusing reporters who try to do their job and hold the executive to account of being “nasty”, and does everything he can to keep the American people in the dark. Meanwhile, people on (very roughly) your side of the aisle spin dangerous falsehoods about Fauci, because as a truth-teller he is seen as endangering the Jackass project, to the point where he needs extra security protection.
It seems you have to work really hard to spin this as a bipartisan fuckup.
Much worse thwn it should have been is a non-falsifiable bullshit claim. Period. Despite Trump being a jsckass there is no evidence any extreme action would have been taken by any other President. As much as everyone needs someone to blame it is the nature of the office to be slow to take extreme measures.
lj, I have spent considerable time on the package this week. Mostly on the small business and individual parts. There is, as you might expect, a steady flow of clarifications and changes. Happy to share where we think things are.
Much worse thwn it should have been is a non-falsifiable bullshit claim. Period. Despite Trump being a jsckass there is no evidence any extreme action would have been taken by any other President. As much as everyone needs someone to blame it is the nature of the office to be slow to take extreme measures.
lj, I have spent considerable time on the package this week. Mostly on the small business and individual parts. There is, as you might expect, a steady flow of clarifications and changes. Happy to share where we think things are.
I havent seen anyone of importance impugn Fauci, I have seen people discuss the models he is using but no one really question him.
All Presidential press conferences are for propaganda. Five weeks ago he was berated for not having press conferences, now no one wants him to talk. He sucks at speaking off the cuff and when he follows the script it seems wooden and unconvincing.
There is absolutely zero evidence the government has denied any state request based on his likes or dislikes of a governor. The President is not in that supply chain.
As far as actually lying, it would be in character, but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling. Or how that might translate to the on the ground response.
I havent seen anyone of importance impugn Fauci, I have seen people discuss the models he is using but no one really question him.
All Presidential press conferences are for propaganda. Five weeks ago he was berated for not having press conferences, now no one wants him to talk. He sucks at speaking off the cuff and when he follows the script it seems wooden and unconvincing.
There is absolutely zero evidence the government has denied any state request based on his likes or dislikes of a governor. The President is not in that supply chain.
As far as actually lying, it would be in character, but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling. Or how that might translate to the on the ground response.
As much as everyone needs someone to blame it is the nature of the office to be slow to take extreme measures.
But seriously, is it the nature of the office to stand there and lie to the public every day? And not just about what he did and said, and when?
It’s very true that there’s work to be done, and spending all one’s time criticising Jackass is not very productive. But defending Jackass, or at least the Jackass administration, is even less productive, to put it mildly, because it gives cover and protection, also in the future, for such egregious malfeasance.
As much as everyone needs someone to blame it is the nature of the office to be slow to take extreme measures.
But seriously, is it the nature of the office to stand there and lie to the public every day? And not just about what he did and said, and when?
It’s very true that there’s work to be done, and spending all one’s time criticising Jackass is not very productive. But defending Jackass, or at least the Jackass administration, is even less productive, to put it mildly, because it gives cover and protection, also in the future, for such egregious malfeasance.
I didn’t have to go far (first google search: Rush Limbaugh Fauci) to find this. You may say Limbaugh’s no-one of importance, and I’d agree except for his vast reach to people on your side of the aisle. And from his lips to crazy extremists’ ears, and hey presto Fauci needs extra protection because he’s receiving threats:
Then there’s — here, look, I’m dancing around something here. I alluded to this last Friday, in the all-too brief phone call I made to the program, to let you all know I was still alive. I have a building, an ongoing problem with — we called it the “Deep State,” but whatever it is. This layer of experts in everything, be it intelligence, foreign policy, health, whatever. We didn’t elect any of these people, and we’re told they’re experts and that we must abide, and we have no choice. And I’ve just seen too much in the past three years of this large group of people trying to undermine Donald Trump and the 2016 election.
This was from a call where just before, he paid lip service to Fauci and Birx by name, but then dogwhistled back on it. The full link is here.
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/rush-limbaugh-ties-coronavirus-warnings-deep-state-trying-undermine-trump-and
And this was the first search I did.
I didn’t have to go far (first google search: Rush Limbaugh Fauci) to find this. You may say Limbaugh’s no-one of importance, and I’d agree except for his vast reach to people on your side of the aisle. And from his lips to crazy extremists’ ears, and hey presto Fauci needs extra protection because he’s receiving threats:
Then there’s — here, look, I’m dancing around something here. I alluded to this last Friday, in the all-too brief phone call I made to the program, to let you all know I was still alive. I have a building, an ongoing problem with — we called it the “Deep State,” but whatever it is. This layer of experts in everything, be it intelligence, foreign policy, health, whatever. We didn’t elect any of these people, and we’re told they’re experts and that we must abide, and we have no choice. And I’ve just seen too much in the past three years of this large group of people trying to undermine Donald Trump and the 2016 election.
This was from a call where just before, he paid lip service to Fauci and Birx by name, but then dogwhistled back on it. The full link is here.
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/rush-limbaugh-ties-coronavirus-warnings-deep-state-trying-undermine-trump-and
And this was the first search I did.
I havent seen anyone of importance impugn Fauci,
not sure of the importance of “important”, when things turn in this direction:
but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling
here’s a batch from last night. he’s lying about testing, about planning, about ventilators, about calling it “the flu”, “I think the one thing nobody really knew about this virus was how contagious it was.”
his lies having taken a strong CYA/blame-deflection color, as people realize how badly he fucked it all up.
I havent seen anyone of importance impugn Fauci,
not sure of the importance of “important”, when things turn in this direction:
but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling
here’s a batch from last night. he’s lying about testing, about planning, about ventilators, about calling it “the flu”, “I think the one thing nobody really knew about this virus was how contagious it was.”
his lies having taken a strong CYA/blame-deflection color, as people realize how badly he fucked it all up.
As far as actually lying, it would be in character, but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling.
I’m searching for a constantly updated list (there must be one) but in the meantime this was in the New Yorker five days ago:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/the-trump-oclock-follies
The one that sticks particularly in my mind is the one about how he knew it was a pandemic even before it was declared a pandemic. And the one about how there were only 15 cases in the US, and it would soon be down to zero. And the one about how it would disappear as if by magic in the warm weather. The recent ones (about testing etc) are factchecked every day in various independent news media, unless they are getting falsehood fatigue.
Marty, why are you defending a man you think so poorly of? This is not a good use of your or my time – you admit at least that lying would be in character, can’t you see the damage this does to the public perception of what’s happening, and therefore to mitigation efforts?
As far as actually lying, it would be in character, but I’m not sure what lies he is still telling.
I’m searching for a constantly updated list (there must be one) but in the meantime this was in the New Yorker five days ago:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/the-trump-oclock-follies
The one that sticks particularly in my mind is the one about how he knew it was a pandemic even before it was declared a pandemic. And the one about how there were only 15 cases in the US, and it would soon be down to zero. And the one about how it would disappear as if by magic in the warm weather. The recent ones (about testing etc) are factchecked every day in various independent news media, unless they are getting falsehood fatigue.
Marty, why are you defending a man you think so poorly of? This is not a good use of your or my time – you admit at least that lying would be in character, can’t you see the damage this does to the public perception of what’s happening, and therefore to mitigation efforts?
Thanks, cleek. Nuff said.
Thanks, cleek. Nuff said.
Admittedly, had Obama (or any of the Clintons for that matter) proposed the measures now seen as necessary by medical experts, the result would have been a firestorm from the usual supects on the Right. The field was well-prepared for large swaths of the population to believe that it was all a pretense for the long-expected leftist coup d’etat (to be followed by concentration and death camps after and accompanied by taking of all guns).
I very much doubt that the GOP would have agreed to any aid or stimulus package by now. And we would either still be in ‘it’s a hoax’ phase or in the ‘the Dems are doin NOTHING, NOTHING to help America weather this crisis’ phase (and Moscow Mitch already tries to blame it all on the Dems because of impeachment).
I guess the Elder Bush was the last president who c/would have been able/fit AND allowed to handle the crisis.
Admittedly, had Obama (or any of the Clintons for that matter) proposed the measures now seen as necessary by medical experts, the result would have been a firestorm from the usual supects on the Right. The field was well-prepared for large swaths of the population to believe that it was all a pretense for the long-expected leftist coup d’etat (to be followed by concentration and death camps after and accompanied by taking of all guns).
I very much doubt that the GOP would have agreed to any aid or stimulus package by now. And we would either still be in ‘it’s a hoax’ phase or in the ‘the Dems are doin NOTHING, NOTHING to help America weather this crisis’ phase (and Moscow Mitch already tries to blame it all on the Dems because of impeachment).
I guess the Elder Bush was the last president who c/would have been able/fit AND allowed to handle the crisis.
I’m not defending Trump, I’m pointing out that the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive. He will not admit he was wrong, dont expect it. Blaming him because someone dies is stupid and unproductive, even if he was wrong.
Everybody in government has made decisions on their interpretation of the facts at the time. Problems are getting solved to the best of everyone’s ability.
I’m not defending Trump, I’m pointing out that the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive. He will not admit he was wrong, dont expect it. Blaming him because someone dies is stupid and unproductive, even if he was wrong.
Everybody in government has made decisions on their interpretation of the facts at the time. Problems are getting solved to the best of everyone’s ability.
I actually agree with that assessment Hartmut.
I actually agree with that assessment Hartmut.
Problems are getting solved to the best of everyone’s ability.
I’m wondering why this isn’t “a non-falsifiable bullshit claim” Because it is you saying it rather than one of us iijit libertards? I mean, if it wasn’t to the best, how would we prove it?
But I’m left with the impression that you have a very low opinion of the ability of the US as a nation.
Problems are getting solved to the best of everyone’s ability.
I’m wondering why this isn’t “a non-falsifiable bullshit claim” Because it is you saying it rather than one of us iijit libertards? I mean, if it wasn’t to the best, how would we prove it?
But I’m left with the impression that you have a very low opinion of the ability of the US as a nation.
As an aside, linking to the Times is not productive in discussions with me, I wouldnt pay them a dime, ever.
As an aside, linking to the Times is not productive in discussions with me, I wouldnt pay them a dime, ever.
man, the Party of Personal Responsibility sure ain’t what it used to (claim to) be.
man, the Party of Personal Responsibility sure ain’t what it used to (claim to) be.
No cleek, the difference is I believe he was wrong, but most commentary on the left applies some nefarious motive, ranging from indifference to actively wanting deaths in blue areas, to him.
Its clear he was wrong, the rest is just the hating Trump syndrome which is wrong also. All politicians lie, he is just really bad at it.
No cleek, the difference is I believe he was wrong, but most commentary on the left applies some nefarious motive, ranging from indifference to actively wanting deaths in blue areas, to him.
Its clear he was wrong, the rest is just the hating Trump syndrome which is wrong also. All politicians lie, he is just really bad at it.
No links to the Times on this page, that I can see. Do you eschew the facts in the WaPo and the New Yorker too? In which case, Jackass’s work is done.
No links to the Times on this page, that I can see. Do you eschew the facts in the WaPo and the New Yorker too? In which case, Jackass’s work is done.
WJ–Civil Forfeiture is despised by many conservatives–including me–and embraced by others across the spectrum, where there is a distinct authoritarian streak that extends well beyond CF.
Bernie doesn’t seem to know what it means either
Hence my point about hair-splitters.
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
Perfection.
(Although in the interests of fairness, I suppose it should be said that McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
Thanks for remembering that. For the record, I did not vote for Trump. I stated the case and my preference for impeachment, and for everyone here who thinks DT has bungled the pandemic, I agree. I did not say otherwise. My point is that we don’t seem to be any worse off than many if not most other significantly affected areas, which raise its own set of questions completely unrelated to the “DT’s the worst president ever and look what he just did!” refrain.
That said, I made the point about Sanders for a reason. A size-able chunk of the left/Democrat Party was fine with a man who erroneously called himself a socialist (does anyone here see why this might be a problem?). If you’re not already out there on the prog wing of the left, or if your not a Democrat apparatchik, that kind of thing gives DT and people like him something to talk about. The reason is that what the Progs and those to their left have to offer is equally problematic and it’s structural.
In this same vein, heads have exploded here since the election about Putin and the Russians. Without debating the merits of those views, I find a country like the PRC concealing and denying the existence of a disease for months and letting infected people travel the world to be at least mildly problematic. And, Sapient, just because the Party tells the world it has things under control doesn’t mean squat. So, the fact that we have this problem due to PRC criminality blows right by everyone because DT is so awful. If you think that doesn’t make others outside your comfort zone–about 90% of the country–wonder about your priorities, then my point is made.
The fixation with DT to the exclusion of all else is problematic. It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
Not hearing from CharlesWT about how lack of government helps here. This is an example of how disdain for government’s role has a detrimental effect.
Wouldn’t mind McKinney commenting either. I know that McKinney doesn’t style himself a libertarian, or have any views that one can pin down. He’s kind of squishy, and can glom on to whatever seems successful. Convenient.
No views that can be pinned down? Really? You think it’s convenient for me to be openly anti-Trump in many of the circles I’ve run in for years? Or, that I bend to the majority views here as some kind of accommodation?
As for your article, I begin with the fact that we bought a couple thousand non-functional ventilators, and then ask, how does that happen? My firm’s practice brings us into close contact with a variety of medical providers–all of whom buy their stuff from known, reliable vendors who stand behind their products (they have to, to stay in business). So, I’m wondering how that vendor was selected–crony capitalism is a bipartisan affliction–so I’m completely open to that possibility. The open question is whether and to what extent and how effectively the vendor was vetted. Was the acquisition led by a political appointee or by a full-time federal employee? If it’s the latter, then I’d want to know that person’s skill set and to evaluate that person’s diligence/aptitude and so on.
My preference for the private sector is driven in part by stories like this. Government, in general, does not and cannot do what the private sector does, which is create a range–often a wide range–of fairly-to-highly specialized, self-interested actors who have the ability, knowledge and personal motivation to make sure they are getting what they pay for.
WJ–Civil Forfeiture is despised by many conservatives–including me–and embraced by others across the spectrum, where there is a distinct authoritarian streak that extends well beyond CF.
Bernie doesn’t seem to know what it means either
Hence my point about hair-splitters.
I like that conservatives are concerned about foreign influence in our politics again, tho.
Perfection.
(Although in the interests of fairness, I suppose it should be said that McKinney himself has in the past been outspoken in his contempt for Trump’s admiration for despots, dictators and thugs).
Thanks for remembering that. For the record, I did not vote for Trump. I stated the case and my preference for impeachment, and for everyone here who thinks DT has bungled the pandemic, I agree. I did not say otherwise. My point is that we don’t seem to be any worse off than many if not most other significantly affected areas, which raise its own set of questions completely unrelated to the “DT’s the worst president ever and look what he just did!” refrain.
That said, I made the point about Sanders for a reason. A size-able chunk of the left/Democrat Party was fine with a man who erroneously called himself a socialist (does anyone here see why this might be a problem?). If you’re not already out there on the prog wing of the left, or if your not a Democrat apparatchik, that kind of thing gives DT and people like him something to talk about. The reason is that what the Progs and those to their left have to offer is equally problematic and it’s structural.
In this same vein, heads have exploded here since the election about Putin and the Russians. Without debating the merits of those views, I find a country like the PRC concealing and denying the existence of a disease for months and letting infected people travel the world to be at least mildly problematic. And, Sapient, just because the Party tells the world it has things under control doesn’t mean squat. So, the fact that we have this problem due to PRC criminality blows right by everyone because DT is so awful. If you think that doesn’t make others outside your comfort zone–about 90% of the country–wonder about your priorities, then my point is made.
The fixation with DT to the exclusion of all else is problematic. It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
Not hearing from CharlesWT about how lack of government helps here. This is an example of how disdain for government’s role has a detrimental effect.
Wouldn’t mind McKinney commenting either. I know that McKinney doesn’t style himself a libertarian, or have any views that one can pin down. He’s kind of squishy, and can glom on to whatever seems successful. Convenient.
No views that can be pinned down? Really? You think it’s convenient for me to be openly anti-Trump in many of the circles I’ve run in for years? Or, that I bend to the majority views here as some kind of accommodation?
As for your article, I begin with the fact that we bought a couple thousand non-functional ventilators, and then ask, how does that happen? My firm’s practice brings us into close contact with a variety of medical providers–all of whom buy their stuff from known, reliable vendors who stand behind their products (they have to, to stay in business). So, I’m wondering how that vendor was selected–crony capitalism is a bipartisan affliction–so I’m completely open to that possibility. The open question is whether and to what extent and how effectively the vendor was vetted. Was the acquisition led by a political appointee or by a full-time federal employee? If it’s the latter, then I’d want to know that person’s skill set and to evaluate that person’s diligence/aptitude and so on.
My preference for the private sector is driven in part by stories like this. Government, in general, does not and cannot do what the private sector does, which is create a range–often a wide range–of fairly-to-highly specialized, self-interested actors who have the ability, knowledge and personal motivation to make sure they are getting what they pay for.
Or maybe russell, federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at.
It’s not as if the federal government has just a small staff, and if you give them too much to do they just can’t manage it all. As it takes on more responsibility it adds people to do the work.
Of course, constant vilification of “unelected bureaucrats,” ignoring and disdaining their expertise for political reasons, and so on, by the right tends to make it harder to hire and keep good people.
Or maybe russell, federal government as the solution for everything has made it incompetent at the things it really should be good at.
It’s not as if the federal government has just a small staff, and if you give them too much to do they just can’t manage it all. As it takes on more responsibility it adds people to do the work.
Of course, constant vilification of “unelected bureaucrats,” ignoring and disdaining their expertise for political reasons, and so on, by the right tends to make it harder to hire and keep good people.
so, since nothing is Trump’s fault, i’m sure the “conservatives” here will be very upset when Trump takes credit for the eventual recovery?
right?
right?
hey, stop laughing back there!
so, since nothing is Trump’s fault, i’m sure the “conservatives” here will be very upset when Trump takes credit for the eventual recovery?
right?
right?
hey, stop laughing back there!
hartmut: [Sorry, no proper (English) slants or slander against Italians coming to mind not mafia related]
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but there are certainly other names besides dago. Wop is one, guinea is another. I was “affectionately” called “Grease” and “Little Grease” by “friends” in college, because you know, “greasy Italians.”
And I’ve probably quoted this before, but in a letter from my dad’s former employer to his prospective one: “X is a very hard worker, even though his people are Italian.”
There’s a nice slant for you: laziness. My dad and his brothers were the hardest working people I’ve ever known. It made no matter.
hartmut: [Sorry, no proper (English) slants or slander against Italians coming to mind not mafia related]
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but there are certainly other names besides dago. Wop is one, guinea is another. I was “affectionately” called “Grease” and “Little Grease” by “friends” in college, because you know, “greasy Italians.”
And I’ve probably quoted this before, but in a letter from my dad’s former employer to his prospective one: “X is a very hard worker, even though his people are Italian.”
There’s a nice slant for you: laziness. My dad and his brothers were the hardest working people I’ve ever known. It made no matter.
Hence my point about hair-splitters.
so you’re mad that Sanders calls himself something he’s not because that actual something is bad but not what Sanders actually is?
riiiight.
Hence my point about hair-splitters.
so you’re mad that Sanders calls himself something he’s not because that actual something is bad but not what Sanders actually is?
riiiight.
Marty: He will not admit he was wrong, dont expect it.
Nobody expects it of He, Trump. Only foolish optimists expect it of Marty.
BTW, Marty, what would you do with an employee of yours who “will not admit he was wrong”?
What if his friends on your staff advised you not to expect anything better? Would you think they were urging you to fire him, or keep him on?
–TP
Marty: He will not admit he was wrong, dont expect it.
Nobody expects it of He, Trump. Only foolish optimists expect it of Marty.
BTW, Marty, what would you do with an employee of yours who “will not admit he was wrong”?
What if his friends on your staff advised you not to expect anything better? Would you think they were urging you to fire him, or keep him on?
–TP
Tony, If he was President I wouldnt vote for him.
Tony, If he was President I wouldnt vote for him.
hmm. i wonder which liberal gave them those ideas?
but, of course, the “conservatives” are very very upset about the mean old liberals.
taking responsibility for their own deranged party? pshaw.
hmm. i wonder which liberal gave them those ideas?
but, of course, the “conservatives” are very very upset about the mean old liberals.
taking responsibility for their own deranged party? pshaw.
Thanks for remembering that. For the record, I did not vote for Trump. I stated the case and my preference for impeachment, and for everyone here who thinks DT has bungled the pandemic, I agree.
I always try to be fair. It’s a vote for the kind of behaviour I also value in others, and which actually progresses discussions. Your second sentence is much appreciated, for the same reason.
Thanks for remembering that. For the record, I did not vote for Trump. I stated the case and my preference for impeachment, and for everyone here who thinks DT has bungled the pandemic, I agree.
I always try to be fair. It’s a vote for the kind of behaviour I also value in others, and which actually progresses discussions. Your second sentence is much appreciated, for the same reason.
GftNC,
Thanks for pointing that out. I go back and forth on WaPo. But I dont have a subscription currently. Mostly if I see something I want to know about I can get the facts with an internet search without the bias of either of those sites.
The problem with WaPo is you have to pay attention to who wrote things, they have left and right opinion writers but most of what they present as news is also skewed one way or the other.
The Times just sucks.
GftNC,
Thanks for pointing that out. I go back and forth on WaPo. But I dont have a subscription currently. Mostly if I see something I want to know about I can get the facts with an internet search without the bias of either of those sites.
The problem with WaPo is you have to pay attention to who wrote things, they have left and right opinion writers but most of what they present as news is also skewed one way or the other.
The Times just sucks.
This is worthwhile to consider in the context of this discussion
https://threader.app/conversation/1244962905617031170/iWFFARFzBq
I have the same opinion of the Times that Marty has, only from the opposite direction
This is worthwhile to consider in the context of this discussion
https://threader.app/conversation/1244962905617031170/iWFFARFzBq
I have the same opinion of the Times that Marty has, only from the opposite direction
me: “X is a very hard worker, even though his people are Italian.”
There’s a nice slant for you: laziness. My dad and his brothers were the hardest working people I’ve ever known. It made no matter.
For the record, this was after one of those lazy uncles of mine had been awarded a Silver Star for things he did in WWII, and right around the time another one of them was busy dying in the Korean War.
me: “X is a very hard worker, even though his people are Italian.”
There’s a nice slant for you: laziness. My dad and his brothers were the hardest working people I’ve ever known. It made no matter.
For the record, this was after one of those lazy uncles of mine had been awarded a Silver Star for things he did in WWII, and right around the time another one of them was busy dying in the Korean War.
Janie, I have always remembered this story since you first told it here, as an astonishing example of racism and prejudice while under the guise of (and presumably intention to) praise. I can only guess at how hurtful this was, if it wasn’t so widespread that it elicited a cynical shrug. There are plenty of similar examples about Jews, but I am lucky enough (and born late enough) never to have personally had to suffer them. This may change or be changing, of course.
Janie, I have always remembered this story since you first told it here, as an astonishing example of racism and prejudice while under the guise of (and presumably intention to) praise. I can only guess at how hurtful this was, if it wasn’t so widespread that it elicited a cynical shrug. There are plenty of similar examples about Jews, but I am lucky enough (and born late enough) never to have personally had to suffer them. This may change or be changing, of course.
Just in case you want to know the etymology, wop is said to come from guappo. For guinea, it comes with the association to Africa. There was a lot of this with Spain as well, and I remember, back in the late 80’s a French slur on Spaniards was to say that Africa starts at the Pyrenees.
Just in case you want to know the etymology, wop is said to come from guappo. For guinea, it comes with the association to Africa. There was a lot of this with Spain as well, and I remember, back in the late 80’s a French slur on Spaniards was to say that Africa starts at the Pyrenees.
Thanks, GftNC. I know these comments are a sidetrack from what everyone really wants to talk about (again) (and again) (and yet again), but in pleading guilty I assert that Hartmut started it. 😉
I find that younger people have never even heard these terms, which I guess is progress of a sort, although the progress has come partly at the expense of some “Italians” in America joining the other side in relation to other out-groups.
But — this is a sidetrack, so I’m shoving off for now.
Thanks, GftNC. I know these comments are a sidetrack from what everyone really wants to talk about (again) (and again) (and yet again), but in pleading guilty I assert that Hartmut started it. 😉
I find that younger people have never even heard these terms, which I guess is progress of a sort, although the progress has come partly at the expense of some “Italians” in America joining the other side in relation to other out-groups.
But — this is a sidetrack, so I’m shoving off for now.
JanieM,I am aware of the Italian stereotype(s), they just did not fit the context here. And although I have heard a lot of nation specific epithets, not all of them (at least the English ones) are necessarily at the top of my mind. Btw, Germans see Italians less as lazy* than as careless (and carefree of course 😉 ), i.e. as people who do not read the manual and do not think about the consequences in advance. And both the Spanish and the Italians are seen as hotheads and easily offended.
Another ‘classic’: “The Italians have entered the war” – “What a mishap/misfortune.”
“On our side” – “A disaster/catastrophe”
(to that I can only say that in the World Wars the Italians were highly incompetent on the higher levels but showed some exceptional ingenuity and bravery in certain areas on the lower ones, e.g. naval commando work)
*that we assume to be the vice of our Eastern, not Southern neighbours.
JanieM,I am aware of the Italian stereotype(s), they just did not fit the context here. And although I have heard a lot of nation specific epithets, not all of them (at least the English ones) are necessarily at the top of my mind. Btw, Germans see Italians less as lazy* than as careless (and carefree of course 😉 ), i.e. as people who do not read the manual and do not think about the consequences in advance. And both the Spanish and the Italians are seen as hotheads and easily offended.
Another ‘classic’: “The Italians have entered the war” – “What a mishap/misfortune.”
“On our side” – “A disaster/catastrophe”
(to that I can only say that in the World Wars the Italians were highly incompetent on the higher levels but showed some exceptional ingenuity and bravery in certain areas on the lower ones, e.g. naval commando work)
*that we assume to be the vice of our Eastern, not Southern neighbours.
I admit to have started the ‘nasty synonym’ thread deviation. It was merely meant as a satirical take on ‘no one blames Italians/Spaniards the way the Chinese get blamed now’. The former are indeed seen mainly as victims at the moment but that is imo quite an aberration. The common thing would be to put most of the blame on them for what happens to/in the rest of Europe (like Mexico gets usually treated by the US). Independent of them actually having done something wrong or not.
I admit to have started the ‘nasty synonym’ thread deviation. It was merely meant as a satirical take on ‘no one blames Italians/Spaniards the way the Chinese get blamed now’. The former are indeed seen mainly as victims at the moment but that is imo quite an aberration. The common thing would be to put most of the blame on them for what happens to/in the rest of Europe (like Mexico gets usually treated by the US). Independent of them actually having done something wrong or not.
Meanwhile on the economic front (from the Economist):
Have the oil traders somehow not got the word on how closely Trump’s words coincide with reality? Which is to say: NOT!
Not to mention that he shows no sign of being able to negotiate his way out of a paper bag. Especially with two guys whose contempt for him has to be so huge, based on their past dealings, that it must be challenging to avoid showing it.
Meanwhile on the economic front (from the Economist):
Have the oil traders somehow not got the word on how closely Trump’s words coincide with reality? Which is to say: NOT!
Not to mention that he shows no sign of being able to negotiate his way out of a paper bag. Especially with two guys whose contempt for him has to be so huge, based on their past dealings, that it must be challenging to avoid showing it.
Personally, I think these detours fulfil a salutary purpose: man (and woman) cannot live by political argument alone. But I do realise, and apologise in advance for, how my view contributes to poor thread discipline!
Personally, I think these detours fulfil a salutary purpose: man (and woman) cannot live by political argument alone. But I do realise, and apologise in advance for, how my view contributes to poor thread discipline!
Btw, Germans see Italians less as lazy* than as careless (and carefree of course 😉 ), i.e. as people who do not read the manual and do not think about the consequences in advance.
Like . . . um . . . Ferrari? Fiat? Lamborghini?
Btw, Germans see Italians less as lazy* than as careless (and carefree of course 😉 ), i.e. as people who do not read the manual and do not think about the consequences in advance.
Like . . . um . . . Ferrari? Fiat? Lamborghini?
I find a country like the PRC concealing and denying the existence of a disease for months and letting infected people travel the world to be at least mildly problematic.
Months? Do you really know what the timeline looked like?
The first case (using hindsight) was in November, but the disease was not understood until late December. “On Dec. 27, Dr. Zhang Jixian, head of the respiratory department at Hubei Provincial Hospital, reported to health officials in China that a novel coronavirus was causing the disease; by that day, it had infected more than 180 individuals.”
The stories of Dr. Zhang and Li Wenliang are told here. By Chinese New Year (January 25) the country was in lockdown. Compare that reaction to the United States, where Trump certainly knew by Chinese New Year about the disease potential. Nothing was done until March, except for Trump publicly minimizing.
The obsession with China (and the suggestion that they didn’t react for “months” is irrational and mistaken.
I find a country like the PRC concealing and denying the existence of a disease for months and letting infected people travel the world to be at least mildly problematic.
Months? Do you really know what the timeline looked like?
The first case (using hindsight) was in November, but the disease was not understood until late December. “On Dec. 27, Dr. Zhang Jixian, head of the respiratory department at Hubei Provincial Hospital, reported to health officials in China that a novel coronavirus was causing the disease; by that day, it had infected more than 180 individuals.”
The stories of Dr. Zhang and Li Wenliang are told here. By Chinese New Year (January 25) the country was in lockdown. Compare that reaction to the United States, where Trump certainly knew by Chinese New Year about the disease potential. Nothing was done until March, except for Trump publicly minimizing.
The obsession with China (and the suggestion that they didn’t react for “months” is irrational and mistaken.
As for your article, I begin with the fact that we bought a couple thousand non-functional ventilators, and then ask, how does that happen? My firm’s practice brings us into close contact with a variety of medical providers–all of whom buy their stuff from known, reliable vendors who stand behind their products (they have to, to stay in business). So, I’m wondering how that vendor was selected
I don’t know the answer to that question. Nor even what, specifically, is wrong with the non-functional ones. But I ran across this:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/04/02/can-you-fix-ventilators-a-silicon-valley-fuel-cell-engineer-figures-it-out/
So we’re fixing them. Sometimes those geeky engineers are what you need.
As for your article, I begin with the fact that we bought a couple thousand non-functional ventilators, and then ask, how does that happen? My firm’s practice brings us into close contact with a variety of medical providers–all of whom buy their stuff from known, reliable vendors who stand behind their products (they have to, to stay in business). So, I’m wondering how that vendor was selected
I don’t know the answer to that question. Nor even what, specifically, is wrong with the non-functional ones. But I ran across this:
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/04/02/can-you-fix-ventilators-a-silicon-valley-fuel-cell-engineer-figures-it-out/
So we’re fixing them. Sometimes those geeky engineers are what you need.
It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
There is certainly a partisan aspect to criticisms of Trump. To the degree that people criticize him because he happens to be the POTUS from “the other side”, you have a point.
And that’s as far as that point goes.
Trump is a shitty president. Not because he’s a (R), or because people don’t like his policies. He’s just a crap executive. He lacks the temperament and skill set to be good at the job.
And it’s a really important job, so people find it disturbing.
You can try to trivialize it as “Trump Derangement Syndrome” or whatever the term of art is these days, but it really is harmful to the nation to have him in office. And there’s nothing wrong with pointing that out.
He is making a bollocks of the job, and he is undermining the standing and influence of this country in the world. He is a daily embarrassment to us all.
And hell yeah, people who otherwise would not get sick, and otherwise would not die, will get sick, and will die.
Trump and lots of other folks were briefed about the dangers of COVID-19 months ago. Some did bugger-all, and others took the opportunity to enrich themselves by trading on the information they received (more candidates for the “Which Circle?” game). Trump was briefed on disaster preparedness during the transition from Obama’s administration. Trump’s actions in that area have been to undermine and cripple the federal institutions responsible for responding to emergencies. Trump’s own NSC prepared a disaster response playbook. He has ignored it.
None of that is “non-falsifiable”, which appears to be the buzzword du jour. It’s all plain fact. All of what I’ve just laid out is plain fact, known and documented in the public record.
He is fucking incompetent. And he’s a dick about it, every day, public and volubly.
And FWIW, I don’t hate Trump. I have no respect for him, mostly because he himself respects nothing, and it makes me angry that he is POTUS. Those are different things.
He is worse than useless, he’s harmful. We’ll all just work around it as best we can.
Wash your hands, stay inside, help your neighbors. Stay safe and well, everyone.
It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
There is certainly a partisan aspect to criticisms of Trump. To the degree that people criticize him because he happens to be the POTUS from “the other side”, you have a point.
And that’s as far as that point goes.
Trump is a shitty president. Not because he’s a (R), or because people don’t like his policies. He’s just a crap executive. He lacks the temperament and skill set to be good at the job.
And it’s a really important job, so people find it disturbing.
You can try to trivialize it as “Trump Derangement Syndrome” or whatever the term of art is these days, but it really is harmful to the nation to have him in office. And there’s nothing wrong with pointing that out.
He is making a bollocks of the job, and he is undermining the standing and influence of this country in the world. He is a daily embarrassment to us all.
And hell yeah, people who otherwise would not get sick, and otherwise would not die, will get sick, and will die.
Trump and lots of other folks were briefed about the dangers of COVID-19 months ago. Some did bugger-all, and others took the opportunity to enrich themselves by trading on the information they received (more candidates for the “Which Circle?” game). Trump was briefed on disaster preparedness during the transition from Obama’s administration. Trump’s actions in that area have been to undermine and cripple the federal institutions responsible for responding to emergencies. Trump’s own NSC prepared a disaster response playbook. He has ignored it.
None of that is “non-falsifiable”, which appears to be the buzzword du jour. It’s all plain fact. All of what I’ve just laid out is plain fact, known and documented in the public record.
He is fucking incompetent. And he’s a dick about it, every day, public and volubly.
And FWIW, I don’t hate Trump. I have no respect for him, mostly because he himself respects nothing, and it makes me angry that he is POTUS. Those are different things.
He is worse than useless, he’s harmful. We’ll all just work around it as best we can.
Wash your hands, stay inside, help your neighbors. Stay safe and well, everyone.
wj, I did not say that German prejudices are necessarily based on facts.
FIAT cars (for commoners) were top of the unreliable list for many years around here though (based on actual repair statistics).
And ‘not reading the manual’ is about use of products not the products themselves.
wj, I did not say that German prejudices are necessarily based on facts.
FIAT cars (for commoners) were top of the unreliable list for many years around here though (based on actual repair statistics).
And ‘not reading the manual’ is about use of products not the products themselves.
And, as I recall, Mercedes in Germany was long (and maybe still?) regarded as basically a solid, if unexciting, maker of trucks and cars. Even as, in the US, they were seen as top of the line luxury vehicles. No accounting for perceptions.
And, as I recall, Mercedes in Germany was long (and maybe still?) regarded as basically a solid, if unexciting, maker of trucks and cars. Even as, in the US, they were seen as top of the line luxury vehicles. No accounting for perceptions.
wrs @ 11.42. FFS, not a word of it can be argued with, if one is arguing in good faith.
wrs @ 11.42. FFS, not a word of it can be argued with, if one is arguing in good faith.
i always think of Mercedes as something like GM (or Toyota) – they make a million different vehicles, one for every niche and purpose there is. some are simply functional and some are luxurious and some are sporty. the big difference between the two makers is that GM markets uses different brand names for the different niches, while Mercedes just sticks with the one name.
i always think of Mercedes as something like GM (or Toyota) – they make a million different vehicles, one for every niche and purpose there is. some are simply functional and some are luxurious and some are sporty. the big difference between the two makers is that GM markets uses different brand names for the different niches, while Mercedes just sticks with the one name.
Marty: Tony, If he was President I wouldnt vote for him.
How decisive of you, Marty! Also, a masterly attempt to miss the point.
McTX,
If you prefer a con to a “prog” in charge of the administrative branch of the federal government, that’s your prob.
–TP
Marty: Tony, If he was President I wouldnt vote for him.
How decisive of you, Marty! Also, a masterly attempt to miss the point.
McTX,
If you prefer a con to a “prog” in charge of the administrative branch of the federal government, that’s your prob.
–TP
It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
No, it isn’t.
It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
No, it isn’t.
Mercedes limousines were known over here as ‘the cars with inbuilt right of way’ (eingebaute Vorfahrt) because they were both extremly robust in crashes* (for the time) and driven by people that thought of themselves as something better (i.e. rich snobs). BMW entering the market for luxury cars and new standards for car safety put a bit of a damper on that moniker.
*and fatal for the other guy in a non-Mercedes
Mercedes limousines were known over here as ‘the cars with inbuilt right of way’ (eingebaute Vorfahrt) because they were both extremly robust in crashes* (for the time) and driven by people that thought of themselves as something better (i.e. rich snobs). BMW entering the market for luxury cars and new standards for car safety put a bit of a damper on that moniker.
*and fatal for the other guy in a non-Mercedes
‘the cars with inbuilt right of way’
Long ago, I owned a Checker Marathon – the traditional NYC taxi, up until 20 or 30 years ago. Mine was green, not yellow, and was a wagon rather than the more common sedan. Otherwise identical to the good old NYC taxi of yore.
Now that, my friends, was an automobile with ‘inbuilt right of way’!!
🙂
‘the cars with inbuilt right of way’
Long ago, I owned a Checker Marathon – the traditional NYC taxi, up until 20 or 30 years ago. Mine was green, not yellow, and was a wagon rather than the more common sedan. Otherwise identical to the good old NYC taxi of yore.
Now that, my friends, was an automobile with ‘inbuilt right of way’!!
🙂
The fixation with DT to the exclusion of all else is problematic. It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
Well, in my opinion, the second sentence is only (even vaguely or remotely) justifiable in the context of the preceding sentence. Otherwise, I’m completely with Janie: the second sentence on its own would be an absurdity.
The fixation with DT to the exclusion of all else is problematic. It is the flip side of the coin with the right’s fixation with Obama or Clinton.
Well, in my opinion, the second sentence is only (even vaguely or remotely) justifiable in the context of the preceding sentence. Otherwise, I’m completely with Janie: the second sentence on its own would be an absurdity.
The golf carts rented with my fucking stolen tax dollars seem to be fully functional:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/2/1933620/-Pandemic-be-damned-Secret-Service-just-signed-a-new-golf-cart-rental-contract-with-Trump-s-VA-club
I guess they weren’t manufactured by that government agency, Morton Thiokol, or maybe Lockheed, who get one mulligan after another, ad nauseum.
I’d like to know how funding NPR, which works fine by me, can cause Lockheed’s F-35 to stall in cold weather?
Classical music clogging up the cockpit instrumentation somehow. Terri Gross asking too many questions, assholes?
Radio interference?
What rank dog shit crawling with bacteria is being peddled here.
A couple of folks here should join Stuart Varney or Sean Hannity on FOX and provide your totally unbiased, unhypocritical opinions to their captives.
Heck, Murdoch will pay you to vomit, whereas OBWI has to clean it up without charge here and then ask for more.
Conservatives and fucking Libertarians:
“Government steals my money to be incompetent, inefficient, malign, and expensive.
Conservatives and fucking Libertarians:
“OK, then, let’s make it do the most important things, and leave the trivial shit to the private sector.
https://www.eater.com/2020/3/23/21191632/fda-routine-food-surveillance-inspections-suspended-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic
Beyond Meat, indeed, c*cksuckers.
We’ll never get food inspection back.
The Coronavirus is a Godsend to Republican Christian Predatory Americans, enabling the force majeure enactment of every policy dear to their black, murderous hearts, and the appointments of lifetime sinecured vermin judges to keep it that way by Government Force.
A agree with Mike Huckabee. Every American should be forced to purchase and own weapons and ammo.
We’ll need one less bullet for our self defense:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/28/politics/tom-coburn-oklahoma-senator-dead/index.html
I could have taken him out with the edge of a can of pinto beans at 20 paces.
I return to our Donald land of lurking and banking the fires of unmitigated hate for what Trump has done to my country.
Maybe Hillary had the Coronavirus that fateful Fall campaign season 2016? Weren’t we told here by one of the usual suspects that she was lyimng about her condition and was terminal, if memory serves.
I return to our Donald land of lurking and banking the fires of unmitigated white-hot hate for what Trump and the Republican Party and Joe Manchin types has done to my country.
The golf carts rented with my fucking stolen tax dollars seem to be fully functional:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/2/1933620/-Pandemic-be-damned-Secret-Service-just-signed-a-new-golf-cart-rental-contract-with-Trump-s-VA-club
I guess they weren’t manufactured by that government agency, Morton Thiokol, or maybe Lockheed, who get one mulligan after another, ad nauseum.
I’d like to know how funding NPR, which works fine by me, can cause Lockheed’s F-35 to stall in cold weather?
Classical music clogging up the cockpit instrumentation somehow. Terri Gross asking too many questions, assholes?
Radio interference?
What rank dog shit crawling with bacteria is being peddled here.
A couple of folks here should join Stuart Varney or Sean Hannity on FOX and provide your totally unbiased, unhypocritical opinions to their captives.
Heck, Murdoch will pay you to vomit, whereas OBWI has to clean it up without charge here and then ask for more.
Conservatives and fucking Libertarians:
“Government steals my money to be incompetent, inefficient, malign, and expensive.
Conservatives and fucking Libertarians:
“OK, then, let’s make it do the most important things, and leave the trivial shit to the private sector.
https://www.eater.com/2020/3/23/21191632/fda-routine-food-surveillance-inspections-suspended-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic
Beyond Meat, indeed, c*cksuckers.
We’ll never get food inspection back.
The Coronavirus is a Godsend to Republican Christian Predatory Americans, enabling the force majeure enactment of every policy dear to their black, murderous hearts, and the appointments of lifetime sinecured vermin judges to keep it that way by Government Force.
A agree with Mike Huckabee. Every American should be forced to purchase and own weapons and ammo.
We’ll need one less bullet for our self defense:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/28/politics/tom-coburn-oklahoma-senator-dead/index.html
I could have taken him out with the edge of a can of pinto beans at 20 paces.
I return to our Donald land of lurking and banking the fires of unmitigated hate for what Trump has done to my country.
Maybe Hillary had the Coronavirus that fateful Fall campaign season 2016? Weren’t we told here by one of the usual suspects that she was lyimng about her condition and was terminal, if memory serves.
I return to our Donald land of lurking and banking the fires of unmitigated white-hot hate for what Trump and the Republican Party and Joe Manchin types has done to my country.
lj: I wonder if some of those “excess” deaths are inability to access health care for another condition because of the overwhelm COVID-19 is causing, rather than “hidden” COVID-19 deaths. Does that make sense? Logically, it could go either way based simply on “average” numbers. I think we are going to see and have already seen increased mortality for treatable conditions in hard-hit areas.
And as far as distrusting the Chinese goes, lj, what is your take on the January 14th WHO tweet of no human-to-human transmission, Li Wenliang, etc.? Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
To be sure, I’m not condoning any under reporting and not challenging that it may be happening in Spain or Italy. I don’t think I’ve read, though, of medical personnel being persecuted in those countries for telling what they think is the truth.
lj: I wonder if some of those “excess” deaths are inability to access health care for another condition because of the overwhelm COVID-19 is causing, rather than “hidden” COVID-19 deaths. Does that make sense? Logically, it could go either way based simply on “average” numbers. I think we are going to see and have already seen increased mortality for treatable conditions in hard-hit areas.
And as far as distrusting the Chinese goes, lj, what is your take on the January 14th WHO tweet of no human-to-human transmission, Li Wenliang, etc.? Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
To be sure, I’m not condoning any under reporting and not challenging that it may be happening in Spain or Italy. I don’t think I’ve read, though, of medical personnel being persecuted in those countries for telling what they think is the truth.
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
I was wondering the same thing. Is it racist to distrust North Korea’s government (even if you trust South Korea’s)?
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
I was wondering the same thing. Is it racist to distrust North Korea’s government (even if you trust South Korea’s)?
I think we are going to see and have already seen increased mortality for treatable conditions in hard-hit areas.
Well, I have already seen a lupus sufferer lamenting online that her healthcare provider has stopped her Hydroxychloroquine (which is the only thing that keeps her condition in check) because of unavailability of the drug. I wonder why?
I think we are going to see and have already seen increased mortality for treatable conditions in hard-hit areas.
Well, I have already seen a lupus sufferer lamenting online that her healthcare provider has stopped her Hydroxychloroquine (which is the only thing that keeps her condition in check) because of unavailability of the drug. I wonder why?
No, it’s not necessarily xenophobic.
Unless you ARE racist.
No, it’s not necessarily xenophobic.
Unless you ARE racist.
So, the fact that we have this problem due to PRC criminality blows right by everyone because DT is so awful.
always blame-shifting. always trying to find a way to pin something on the left.
nobody here has any say over what the PRC does.
So, the fact that we have this problem due to PRC criminality blows right by everyone because DT is so awful.
always blame-shifting. always trying to find a way to pin something on the left.
nobody here has any say over what the PRC does.
I wonder why?
Are you being sarcastic? Because if the question is sincere, see here. Of course, that’s not the same as saying her provider stopped it.
I wonder why?
Are you being sarcastic? Because if the question is sincere, see here. Of course, that’s not the same as saying her provider stopped it.
In case there’s any doubt, I don’t trust the numbers coming from China. I don’t in any way think China’s actions are an excuse for the Rump administration’s failures on the coronavirus response.
In case there’s any doubt, I don’t trust the numbers coming from China. I don’t in any way think China’s actions are an excuse for the Rump administration’s failures on the coronavirus response.
Who here has said they “trust” the PRC government? Who has applauded the persecution of people there who have tried to tell the truth in the PRC? (By the way, it was the Wuhan government, not the central PRC government, that persecuted Dr. Li. Obviously, that doesn’t excuse the PRC government for its routinely oppressive measures to contain free expression, but since so many seem to be an expert on how “criminal” “China” is, maybe the details matter.)
This is the thing: China didn’t act fast enough, but it acted pretty darn fast and with a lot of energy in trying to contain the virus. No one has to “trust” the PRC government to know that they closed down travel for Chinese New Year, which was a massive and consequential societal shutdown, and which happened in January, merely one month after the communicable disease potential was first confirmed. People were required to stay in their homes for months. Wuhan was on lockdown. It is believed by people living there that those actions did contain the spread of the virus. They are now, again, closing bars and restaurants and increasing restrictions because there has been a resurgence.
As to the numbers of dead, do we “trust” the Chinese to give us correct information? I don’t. I don’t “trust” the Trump administration either. Even people working in good faith are hard to “trust” when people aren’t tested, some are dying at home, etc.
Who here has said they “trust” the PRC government? Who has applauded the persecution of people there who have tried to tell the truth in the PRC? (By the way, it was the Wuhan government, not the central PRC government, that persecuted Dr. Li. Obviously, that doesn’t excuse the PRC government for its routinely oppressive measures to contain free expression, but since so many seem to be an expert on how “criminal” “China” is, maybe the details matter.)
This is the thing: China didn’t act fast enough, but it acted pretty darn fast and with a lot of energy in trying to contain the virus. No one has to “trust” the PRC government to know that they closed down travel for Chinese New Year, which was a massive and consequential societal shutdown, and which happened in January, merely one month after the communicable disease potential was first confirmed. People were required to stay in their homes for months. Wuhan was on lockdown. It is believed by people living there that those actions did contain the spread of the virus. They are now, again, closing bars and restaurants and increasing restrictions because there has been a resurgence.
As to the numbers of dead, do we “trust” the Chinese to give us correct information? I don’t. I don’t “trust” the Trump administration either. Even people working in good faith are hard to “trust” when people aren’t tested, some are dying at home, etc.
our block is burning down and we’re supposed to start yelling at the dysfunctional family in the house where it started, instead of yelling at dad to turn off Fox News and get his ass in gear.
our block is burning down and we’re supposed to start yelling at the dysfunctional family in the house where it started, instead of yelling at dad to turn off Fox News and get his ass in gear.
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
The focus on blaming China, on calling the virus the “Chinese” virus or the “Wuhan” virus has exacerbated anti-Asian racism. What’s your point in focussing on China? It originated there in a dense city of over 10 million people. China has tried to stop its spread, and they acted more quickly than we did. What else you got?
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
The focus on blaming China, on calling the virus the “Chinese” virus or the “Wuhan” virus has exacerbated anti-Asian racism. What’s your point in focussing on China? It originated there in a dense city of over 10 million people. China has tried to stop its spread, and they acted more quickly than we did. What else you got?
The securities and business accounting regulatory standards in China remain lax, because their corrupt conservative government disallows stricter gummint oversight and enforcement, a situation held as aspirational by corrupt American conservatives such as Kudlow for our country:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/luckin-coffee-coo-under-investigation-155407770.html
The securities and business accounting regulatory standards in China remain lax, because their corrupt conservative government disallows stricter gummint oversight and enforcement, a situation held as aspirational by corrupt American conservatives such as Kudlow for our country:
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/luckin-coffee-coo-under-investigation-155407770.html
And as far as distrusting the Chinese goes, lj, what is your take on the January 14th WHO tweet of no human-to-human transmission, Li Wenliang, etc.?
On Jan 30 the WHO declared the virus to be a public health emergency of international concern.
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
No
And as far as distrusting the Chinese goes, lj, what is your take on the January 14th WHO tweet of no human-to-human transmission, Li Wenliang, etc.?
On Jan 30 the WHO declared the virus to be a public health emergency of international concern.
Does distrusting the CCP have to be xenophobic (as is implied)?
No
On Jan 30, CHina reported 2,000 new cases (hitting a total of almost 10,000). and that same day, Trump said this, at a rally:
yes, let’s complain about China.
On Jan 30, CHina reported 2,000 new cases (hitting a total of almost 10,000). and that same day, Trump said this, at a rally:
yes, let’s complain about China.
Also, how does Texas and its post-Covid-19 international travel grab people?
Texas. Criminal.
Also, how does Texas and its post-Covid-19 international travel grab people?
Texas. Criminal.
On the other (more hopeful) hand, the governor of Georgia has (finally!) discovered asymptomatic transmission is possible. Who knew? (Besides anyone who was paying attention to news not broadcast by Fox.)
Reality creeping in, even in the more unlikely places.
On the other (more hopeful) hand, the governor of Georgia has (finally!) discovered asymptomatic transmission is possible. Who knew? (Besides anyone who was paying attention to news not broadcast by Fox.)
Reality creeping in, even in the more unlikely places.
what else you got?
yes, let’s complain about China
Not my point, but serves me right to not notice that there is a second page of comments. I was responding to lj’s comment on page 1. My point was simply that distrusting the numbers from China is not per se xenophobic. There are good reasons to not trust China. Just as there are good reasons to not trust what Trump says.
Trust russell to nonetheless see through the intervening back and forth and have a clear-minded response. Thanks.
Sapient and cleek, I do take issue with the initial Chinese response from what is out there to read right now. More could have been done and, I hope, would have been done in a more transparent society. But one can simultaneously criticize the Chinese and the West! Our own CDC and FDA need some serious help and I’m not convinced it has anything to do with Trump.
That some nutters get wound up by calling it the “Wuhan Virus” is not a reason to say that the name itself is racist. Why not, then, German Measles, Ebola, Spanish Flu, etc.? I did get a kick out of the media using allegedly racist names for the virus one week then turning around and blasting everyone the next.
what else you got?
yes, let’s complain about China
Not my point, but serves me right to not notice that there is a second page of comments. I was responding to lj’s comment on page 1. My point was simply that distrusting the numbers from China is not per se xenophobic. There are good reasons to not trust China. Just as there are good reasons to not trust what Trump says.
Trust russell to nonetheless see through the intervening back and forth and have a clear-minded response. Thanks.
Sapient and cleek, I do take issue with the initial Chinese response from what is out there to read right now. More could have been done and, I hope, would have been done in a more transparent society. But one can simultaneously criticize the Chinese and the West! Our own CDC and FDA need some serious help and I’m not convinced it has anything to do with Trump.
That some nutters get wound up by calling it the “Wuhan Virus” is not a reason to say that the name itself is racist. Why not, then, German Measles, Ebola, Spanish Flu, etc.? I did get a kick out of the media using allegedly racist names for the virus one week then turning around and blasting everyone the next.
According to Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (the fake news reported at OBWI a day ago that this guy is the least-well known Texas political personality is faker than fake), those young Covidiots on their murderous bacterial jaunt are the future of the country, because their parents and grandparents, minus Patrick himself, of course, will agree to die of the disease to save the stock market.
David Barton sure knows who he is. Yeah, that f*ck is still around.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/07/10/americas-future-is-texas
To add to my disgust at the cessation of nationwide food inspection, it was reported yesterday on NPR (which singlehandly prevented NASA from landing on the Moon because it made Neil Armstrong incompetent) in Colorado that a young woman is quarantined in Greeley Colorado because a family member, her father, has the Covid-19. She is, as is her father, a meatpacking/slaughterhouse employee and she said on the radio that the plant has NO fucking soap in the bathrooms so the employees cannot even wash their hands at work, and furthermore, the plant management, which refused comment, has notified all employees that they will be fired if they stay away from work for more than seven days, with or without the virus.
It’s about a 70-minute drive from Denver and there are plenty of ammo stores on the way to load up for justice.
I’ll have to check my schedule to see if there is time today for some free-style bounty hunting, since government seems as dead as Genghis Khan.
Tastes like chicken to me.
I’d cook that meat to very well done nearing burned to a crisp, you neo-meateating conservatives.
Grade A stands for Assholes.
And with that, see ya next time.
According to Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (the fake news reported at OBWI a day ago that this guy is the least-well known Texas political personality is faker than fake), those young Covidiots on their murderous bacterial jaunt are the future of the country, because their parents and grandparents, minus Patrick himself, of course, will agree to die of the disease to save the stock market.
David Barton sure knows who he is. Yeah, that f*ck is still around.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/07/10/americas-future-is-texas
To add to my disgust at the cessation of nationwide food inspection, it was reported yesterday on NPR (which singlehandly prevented NASA from landing on the Moon because it made Neil Armstrong incompetent) in Colorado that a young woman is quarantined in Greeley Colorado because a family member, her father, has the Covid-19. She is, as is her father, a meatpacking/slaughterhouse employee and she said on the radio that the plant has NO fucking soap in the bathrooms so the employees cannot even wash their hands at work, and furthermore, the plant management, which refused comment, has notified all employees that they will be fired if they stay away from work for more than seven days, with or without the virus.
It’s about a 70-minute drive from Denver and there are plenty of ammo stores on the way to load up for justice.
I’ll have to check my schedule to see if there is time today for some free-style bounty hunting, since government seems as dead as Genghis Khan.
Tastes like chicken to me.
I’d cook that meat to very well done nearing burned to a crisp, you neo-meateating conservatives.
Grade A stands for Assholes.
And with that, see ya next time.
The Spanish Flu, according to the most accepted theory, originated at an Army Base in Kansas, whose soldiers than carried the bacillus to the battlefields of World War I.
America never gets the credit we deserve, even when we win.
China is mentioned as the source as well.
I expect that theory to pick up steam now, given the racist xenophobes at FOX News and in the White House.
The Spanish Flu, according to the most accepted theory, originated at an Army Base in Kansas, whose soldiers than carried the bacillus to the battlefields of World War I.
America never gets the credit we deserve, even when we win.
China is mentioned as the source as well.
I expect that theory to pick up steam now, given the racist xenophobes at FOX News and in the White House.
then
then
Thullen: and a point apropos for today, not only do they think it originated in Kansas, but the only reason they thought it originated in Spain was due to the open press accounts coming out of Spain.
Thullen: and a point apropos for today, not only do they think it originated in Kansas, but the only reason they thought it originated in Spain was due to the open press accounts coming out of Spain.
May I call you “c”?
May I call you “c”?
This map looks familiar:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/04/foolish-fellow-americans/
Course, conservatives will say the map proves that social distancing and remaining quarantined for lengths of time is what spreads the virus.
This map looks familiar:
https://digbysblog.net/2020/04/foolish-fellow-americans/
Course, conservatives will say the map proves that social distancing and remaining quarantined for lengths of time is what spreads the virus.
Them masks are selling like F-35s abroad:
https://juanitajean.com/what-the-hell-4/
Them masks are selling like F-35s abroad:
https://juanitajean.com/what-the-hell-4/
The Spanish Flu, according to the most accepted theory, originated at an Army Base in Kansas, whose soldiers than carried the bacillus to the battlefields of World War I
The pathogen is a virus.
The Spanish Flu, according to the most accepted theory, originated at an Army Base in Kansas, whose soldiers than carried the bacillus to the battlefields of World War I
The pathogen is a virus.
that map makes perfect sense for NC, which didn’t go into “no non-essential travel” statewide until the 30th. the little blob in the middle – that’s Wake, Orange and Durham counties (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill), all of which shut down at least a week before.
that map makes perfect sense for NC, which didn’t go into “no non-essential travel” statewide until the 30th. the little blob in the middle – that’s Wake, Orange and Durham counties (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill), all of which shut down at least a week before.
the map proves that social distancing and remaining quarantined for lengths of time is what spreads the virus.
As opposed to, say, actually doing testing….
the map proves that social distancing and remaining quarantined for lengths of time is what spreads the virus.
As opposed to, say, actually doing testing….
I’m aware.
“Bacillus: sounds more Evil to fit the times.
I’m aware.
“Bacillus: sounds more Evil to fit the times.
Actually, Make America Great Britain (again) sent imported, from somewhere in Europe I believe, testing kits back because they were contaminated with … the.. Covid-19.
It’s like trying to get rid of flypaper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iEwNC2Qv-E
Actually, Make America Great Britain (again) sent imported, from somewhere in Europe I believe, testing kits back because they were contaminated with … the.. Covid-19.
It’s like trying to get rid of flypaper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iEwNC2Qv-E
What action should I take if they steal the next Presidential election too.
Let’s make it a poll question.
You get one choice … of my choosing, kind of like Lou Dobbs’ polls of Trump’s job performance: #1: Excellent, #2: Marvelous, #3: #1
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-georgia-house-speaker-turnout
What action should I take if they steal the next Presidential election too.
Let’s make it a poll question.
You get one choice … of my choosing, kind of like Lou Dobbs’ polls of Trump’s job performance: #1: Excellent, #2: Marvelous, #3: #1
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-georgia-house-speaker-turnout
Who here has said they “trust” the PRC government?
McKinney accused us libs of being too easy on China (seemingly implying leftist sympathies of some sort – because communism?), while we were being super mean to our president (because we don’t like Republicans).
There are a number of conversations going on and people writing in reaction to others rather than trying to make a particular thing a matter of emphasis because they have an axe to grind.
Who here has said they “trust” the PRC government?
McKinney accused us libs of being too easy on China (seemingly implying leftist sympathies of some sort – because communism?), while we were being super mean to our president (because we don’t like Republicans).
There are a number of conversations going on and people writing in reaction to others rather than trying to make a particular thing a matter of emphasis because they have an axe to grind.
bc,
I wonder if some of those “excess” deaths are inability to access health care for another condition because of the overwhelm COVID-19 is causing, rather than “hidden” COVID-19 deaths.
That seems plausible to me. There will be lots of deaths from that, and they are attributable to COVID-19 logically, if not medically.
bc,
I wonder if some of those “excess” deaths are inability to access health care for another condition because of the overwhelm COVID-19 is causing, rather than “hidden” COVID-19 deaths.
That seems plausible to me. There will be lots of deaths from that, and they are attributable to COVID-19 logically, if not medically.
I’m not defending Trump, I’m pointing out that the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive.
I don’t think it’s unproductive. I think it’s very useful to explain to people what a lying POS he is.
Indeed, if everyone had assumed from the beginning that nothing Trump said about the coronavirus was true we would be a lot better off today.
I’m not defending Trump, I’m pointing out that the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive.
I don’t think it’s unproductive. I think it’s very useful to explain to people what a lying POS he is.
Indeed, if everyone had assumed from the beginning that nothing Trump said about the coronavirus was true we would be a lot better off today.
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
I wonder why?
Are you being sarcastic?
Of course I was being sarcastic! And here am I, so far actively resisting a sarcasm font!
I wonder why?
Are you being sarcastic?
Of course I was being sarcastic! And here am I, so far actively resisting a sarcasm font!
almost no one in a position of authority believed him
the President is arguably the ultimate “position of authority” in the US, and Fox News is his mouthpiece. that’s why, again:
any chance you heard Trump say anything about any of that?
almost no one in a position of authority believed him
the President is arguably the ultimate “position of authority” in the US, and Fox News is his mouthpiece. that’s why, again:
any chance you heard Trump say anything about any of that?
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him.
What does a “position of authority” mean in this sentence? No scientists (epidemiologists, statisticians etc) or medical experts believed him. But what authority did they have, and what could they do except try to tell the truth (against a blizzard of bullshit from Fox, the White House, all the enabling arseholes on the right)? The people with authority to act, whether they believed him or not, are rather overwhelmingly all in for him, so they did bugger all until it was too fucking late (for a best-case scenario, that is). And he’s still lying, and lo and behold, close on half the American public (who have no authority except they can vote in November), believe his lies (rising approval ratings) because they have no ability to think or evaluate rationally.
Sorry for outburst. But it’s all true.
Well, even I think that the media is creating panic wherever it can. But that’s their job right? Get eyeballs. Is that exaggerating the risk? *shrug*
I think Trump deserves what he gets from the media, but in every other way they get worse every day.
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him.
What does a “position of authority” mean in this sentence? No scientists (epidemiologists, statisticians etc) or medical experts believed him. But what authority did they have, and what could they do except try to tell the truth (against a blizzard of bullshit from Fox, the White House, all the enabling arseholes on the right)? The people with authority to act, whether they believed him or not, are rather overwhelmingly all in for him, so they did bugger all until it was too fucking late (for a best-case scenario, that is). And he’s still lying, and lo and behold, close on half the American public (who have no authority except they can vote in November), believe his lies (rising approval ratings) because they have no ability to think or evaluate rationally.
Sorry for outburst. But it’s all true.
Well, even I think that the media is creating panic wherever it can. But that’s their job right? Get eyeballs. Is that exaggerating the risk? *shrug*
I think Trump deserves what he gets from the media, but in every other way they get worse every day.
almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
Perhaps not. But an awful lots of Republican governors and members of Congress acted** and talked like they believed him.
** Admittedly, some of them took private actions, e.g. made stock sales, showing that they didn’t believe him. As opposed to their public demonstrations of absolute faith in the word-of-the-moment.
almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
Perhaps not. But an awful lots of Republican governors and members of Congress acted** and talked like they believed him.
** Admittedly, some of them took private actions, e.g. made stock sales, showing that they didn’t believe him. As opposed to their public demonstrations of absolute faith in the word-of-the-moment.
GftNC, when did people believe what? He downplayed the risk and the medical profession and the media exploded here with criticism.
I’m not sure what country the people here live in. The first outbreak here was in a nursing home in Washington State on Jan 19. There’s almost no more remote spot from much of the country. California took note, but that was due to proximity. The stay home order in Washington State was issued March 23.
New York, March 24. Long after the President had moved off his original position. The delays, everywhere, were based on the people in charge having to internalize the gravity of the threat.
The media focus on the Presidents evolving understanding is not productive. Go ask Cuomo, who somehow is now Presidential material, why he waited until a week ago to do that.
This Trump did wrong. He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice. Then he was Trump and wouldnt just say he was wrong. Which is what I consider as part of his disqualifying temperament.
Millions of people disagree with me.
GftNC, when did people believe what? He downplayed the risk and the medical profession and the media exploded here with criticism.
I’m not sure what country the people here live in. The first outbreak here was in a nursing home in Washington State on Jan 19. There’s almost no more remote spot from much of the country. California took note, but that was due to proximity. The stay home order in Washington State was issued March 23.
New York, March 24. Long after the President had moved off his original position. The delays, everywhere, were based on the people in charge having to internalize the gravity of the threat.
The media focus on the Presidents evolving understanding is not productive. Go ask Cuomo, who somehow is now Presidential material, why he waited until a week ago to do that.
This Trump did wrong. He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice. Then he was Trump and wouldnt just say he was wrong. Which is what I consider as part of his disqualifying temperament.
Millions of people disagree with me.
and the media exploded here with criticism.
Fox certainly didn’t.
and, again, Fox viewers think it’s a hoax.
He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.
OMFG. hook. line. sinker.
he stood in front of the cameras contradicting his experts, day after day. he’s still doing it.
he’s taking advice from Hannity and Epstien and Jared. he’s spouting propaganda, still.
and he’s getting people killed.
and you’re apologizing for him.
as always.
and the media exploded here with criticism.
Fox certainly didn’t.
and, again, Fox viewers think it’s a hoax.
He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.
OMFG. hook. line. sinker.
he stood in front of the cameras contradicting his experts, day after day. he’s still doing it.
he’s taking advice from Hannity and Epstien and Jared. he’s spouting propaganda, still.
and he’s getting people killed.
and you’re apologizing for him.
as always.
DIAF, italics.
DIAF, italics.
No one thinks it’s a hoax, and he never said it was. I know lots of Trump supporters and yes, they came around slow.
They are more likely to believe it’s a Chinese plot to destroy the world. But close to every adult is sure this is a crisis, although I know some pretty liberal folks that dont think stay at home meand thrm.
No one thinks it’s a hoax, and he never said it was. I know lots of Trump supporters and yes, they came around slow.
They are more likely to believe it’s a Chinese plot to destroy the world. But close to every adult is sure this is a crisis, although I know some pretty liberal folks that dont think stay at home meand thrm.
“He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.”
I stood on the median strip of the busy city street outside my building in my boxer shorts yesterday coughing like a Nepalese tubercular.
Everyone told me not to do it.
So give me a fucking Medal of Freedom!
Like Limbaugh, who is social distancing from EVERYONE while telling his listeners to suck his cock, and send money, if they can make it past the armed guards when he’s receiving his cancer treatments with his fully compromised immune system, leaving aside the fact that he is faking his illness so trump would give him a medal and shame and disgrace every previous medal winner, including all Purple Hearts, Paul McCartney’s Knighthood and my senior year gold medal in the fucking 100-yard dash in the Western PA track finals.
OK .. Silver.
Marty, take it from someone who doesn’t know how to shut up, and I don’t mean Dave C.. and SHAD UP!
You are in a crowded theater. Yell the right fucking words, or shut up and watch the fucking movie with the rest of us with the proper amount of horror.
“Millions of people disagree with me.”
Yet another low estimate.
“He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.”
I stood on the median strip of the busy city street outside my building in my boxer shorts yesterday coughing like a Nepalese tubercular.
Everyone told me not to do it.
So give me a fucking Medal of Freedom!
Like Limbaugh, who is social distancing from EVERYONE while telling his listeners to suck his cock, and send money, if they can make it past the armed guards when he’s receiving his cancer treatments with his fully compromised immune system, leaving aside the fact that he is faking his illness so trump would give him a medal and shame and disgrace every previous medal winner, including all Purple Hearts, Paul McCartney’s Knighthood and my senior year gold medal in the fucking 100-yard dash in the Western PA track finals.
OK .. Silver.
Marty, take it from someone who doesn’t know how to shut up, and I don’t mean Dave C.. and SHAD UP!
You are in a crowded theater. Yell the right fucking words, or shut up and watch the fucking movie with the rest of us with the proper amount of horror.
“Millions of people disagree with me.”
Yet another low estimate.
Marty,
What would people like DeSantis, Kemp, Ivey, and presumably others have done if Trump had taken warnings he got early seriously?
What if he had said to himself, “You know, I’m not sure about this, but maybe we ought to order up a whole shitload of masks – the N95’s cost $3.50 in not huge quantities – and get some people making ventilators.” I mean, if it’s not as bad as these guys think, you have them in storage.
A few billion in prevention would have saved a lot of lives and jobs and businesses.
Marty,
What would people like DeSantis, Kemp, Ivey, and presumably others have done if Trump had taken warnings he got early seriously?
What if he had said to himself, “You know, I’m not sure about this, but maybe we ought to order up a whole shitload of masks – the N95’s cost $3.50 in not huge quantities – and get some people making ventilators.” I mean, if it’s not as bad as these guys think, you have them in storage.
A few billion in prevention would have saved a lot of lives and jobs and businesses.
Dr Anthony Fauci, who is sabre-fighting a killer virus with one hand, and caressing the distended balls of Caligula with the other, is as of today the only citizen who has his own Bobblehead Doll AND his own heavily-armed security detail to keep NRA-Republican-armed conservative murderers from killing him because he urges them to stop spreading the Coronavirus by fucking their mothers and their children and their friends up their asses in the name of the Constitution!
Dr Anthony Fauci, who is sabre-fighting a killer virus with one hand, and caressing the distended balls of Caligula with the other, is as of today the only citizen who has his own Bobblehead Doll AND his own heavily-armed security detail to keep NRA-Republican-armed conservative murderers from killing him because he urges them to stop spreading the Coronavirus by fucking their mothers and their children and their friends up their asses in the name of the Constitution!
The delays, everywhere, were based on the people in charge having to internalize the gravity of the threat.
It didn’t help that the WHO, seemingly fronting for the CCP, initally downplayed the threat.
The delays, everywhere, were based on the people in charge having to internalize the gravity of the threat.
It didn’t help that the WHO, seemingly fronting for the CCP, initally downplayed the threat.
Bernie, that presumes mask and ventilator shortages were highlighted and we realized the quantity in out reserves was inadequate.Theres a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking based on discussions none of us were in.
See, I suspect that the worst case was presented with a lot of caveats so it just didnt get internalized. Based on what he has said. From “there may be a virus outbreak” to “there arent enough ventilators in existence to cope with it” isnt a given leap.
Bernie, that presumes mask and ventilator shortages were highlighted and we realized the quantity in out reserves was inadequate.Theres a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking based on discussions none of us were in.
See, I suspect that the worst case was presented with a lot of caveats so it just didnt get internalized. Based on what he has said. From “there may be a virus outbreak” to “there arent enough ventilators in existence to cope with it” isnt a given leap.
the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive.
I don’t think it’s unproductive. I think it’s very useful to explain to people what a lying POS he is.
but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
This guy. Not in authority, nonetheless dead.
He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.
Yes, I agree.
And he was getting advice from, among other similar people, his son in law. Who got his advice from his super-model sister-in-law’s dad. Who got his advice from a Facebook poll of his MD buddies.
His ‘current advice’ was shite. Because he’s a fucking idiot who sadly thinks he is a genius. So he doesn’t recognize the fact that there are people in the world who actually know stuff he doesn’t know.
He is a fucking amateur. He is a loser. He is a freaking wanna-be. He is not a good businessman, he is a guy who made his money cheating on taxes, stiffing his debtors, selling overpriced luxury real estate to money-laundering kleptos, and pimping his name to brand crap fraudulent products sold to people for whom vulgar luxury is an aspirational ideal. He has no damned business in the office he holds.
He was elected because everybody was tired of the “politicians”, which is to say the people who actually have experience in governance and in public life. Trump’s experience in “public life” is basically as a geezer Kardashian.
Trump is the political version of the rich asshole who goes to a museum, looks at the paintings, and says “What is this shit? My kid could paint better than that!”.
The federal government is turning to shit, because the chief executive is an incompetent nincompoop.
He is, in fact, doing his best. He is making the most of the information he has at the time, which comes from Jared and Fox News and god knows whatever fountain of expertise and wisdom.
Garbage in, garbage out.
We need to find ways to work around him. Ideally, responsible media channels would stop broadcasting his damned briefings in real time, and would provide a vetted synopsis of his remarks, with the rambling idiocies edited out. Ideally, he would actually STFU altogether and let people like Fauci drive the policy, because Fauci actually knows his freaking onions.
The federal response to the pandemic is a clusterfuck. Many of the state responses, also, but not all of them. My personal opinion is that folks will get a better result by relying on their state and local resources at this point, because the feds can’t find their @sses with both hands and a flashlight.
This is what incompetent crap government looks like. This is what his supporters voted for, and so this is what we have.
We’ll get through it, one way or another. We’ll get through it that much better, the less Trump is involved in the planning and execution of the response.
If you were on the board of some company, and Trump was the CEO, you’d hand him his hat and show him the door. I have no idea what you get out of getting his back here, but the man is a dumbass. An incompetent addle-brained cowardly dumbass. And a nasty piece of work, on top of it all.
the constant “fact checking” of his statements is unproductive.
I don’t think it’s unproductive. I think it’s very useful to explain to people what a lying POS he is.
but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
This guy. Not in authority, nonetheless dead.
He was transparent on what he thought based on all his current advice.
Yes, I agree.
And he was getting advice from, among other similar people, his son in law. Who got his advice from his super-model sister-in-law’s dad. Who got his advice from a Facebook poll of his MD buddies.
His ‘current advice’ was shite. Because he’s a fucking idiot who sadly thinks he is a genius. So he doesn’t recognize the fact that there are people in the world who actually know stuff he doesn’t know.
He is a fucking amateur. He is a loser. He is a freaking wanna-be. He is not a good businessman, he is a guy who made his money cheating on taxes, stiffing his debtors, selling overpriced luxury real estate to money-laundering kleptos, and pimping his name to brand crap fraudulent products sold to people for whom vulgar luxury is an aspirational ideal. He has no damned business in the office he holds.
He was elected because everybody was tired of the “politicians”, which is to say the people who actually have experience in governance and in public life. Trump’s experience in “public life” is basically as a geezer Kardashian.
Trump is the political version of the rich asshole who goes to a museum, looks at the paintings, and says “What is this shit? My kid could paint better than that!”.
The federal government is turning to shit, because the chief executive is an incompetent nincompoop.
He is, in fact, doing his best. He is making the most of the information he has at the time, which comes from Jared and Fox News and god knows whatever fountain of expertise and wisdom.
Garbage in, garbage out.
We need to find ways to work around him. Ideally, responsible media channels would stop broadcasting his damned briefings in real time, and would provide a vetted synopsis of his remarks, with the rambling idiocies edited out. Ideally, he would actually STFU altogether and let people like Fauci drive the policy, because Fauci actually knows his freaking onions.
The federal response to the pandemic is a clusterfuck. Many of the state responses, also, but not all of them. My personal opinion is that folks will get a better result by relying on their state and local resources at this point, because the feds can’t find their @sses with both hands and a flashlight.
This is what incompetent crap government looks like. This is what his supporters voted for, and so this is what we have.
We’ll get through it, one way or another. We’ll get through it that much better, the less Trump is involved in the planning and execution of the response.
If you were on the board of some company, and Trump was the CEO, you’d hand him his hat and show him the door. I have no idea what you get out of getting his back here, but the man is a dumbass. An incompetent addle-brained cowardly dumbass. And a nasty piece of work, on top of it all.
I have no idea what you get out of getting his back here,
It’s a real mystery, but my guess is, an addicting feeling of superiority to us dumb fuck liberals.
Anyhow, let’s all chant together: Don’t bite hooks.
And when certain other people come here and say “jump” (i.e. justify yourself for not spending your days condemning my hobgoblin fantasies), consider not saying “how high?”
Or better yet, Whatever you say, say nothin’…
I guess I have a different idea of fun from some people.
I have no idea what you get out of getting his back here,
It’s a real mystery, but my guess is, an addicting feeling of superiority to us dumb fuck liberals.
Anyhow, let’s all chant together: Don’t bite hooks.
And when certain other people come here and say “jump” (i.e. justify yourself for not spending your days condemning my hobgoblin fantasies), consider not saying “how high?”
Or better yet, Whatever you say, say nothin’…
I guess I have a different idea of fun from some people.
It doesn’t help either that Libertarians haven’t yet gathered together, maybe have a little chinwag among themselves, and decide what the fuck Libertarian suppositions they agree on before foisting your bullshit on the rest of us.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-culture/609019/
Maybe a joint declaration of some kind. To clarify what the fuck you are talking about.
No doubt you’ll chair the meeting, the circle jerk, Charles and let us know what you come up with.
You guys use Roberts Rules of Order or is that too many rules for ya?
Marty:
“There’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking based on discussions none of us were in.”
You Marty, were the Bart Starr, the Johnny Unitas, and the John Elway of all day Monday and every day of the week quarterbacking regarding Obamacare around here, and all things fucking Hillary and Obama.
You lost yardage then and now that you are in the booth, you and Terry Bradshaw provide plenty of off-color play by play of a game no one is playing.
It doesn’t help either that Libertarians haven’t yet gathered together, maybe have a little chinwag among themselves, and decide what the fuck Libertarian suppositions they agree on before foisting your bullshit on the rest of us.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-culture/609019/
Maybe a joint declaration of some kind. To clarify what the fuck you are talking about.
No doubt you’ll chair the meeting, the circle jerk, Charles and let us know what you come up with.
You guys use Roberts Rules of Order or is that too many rules for ya?
Marty:
“There’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking based on discussions none of us were in.”
You Marty, were the Bart Starr, the Johnny Unitas, and the John Elway of all day Monday and every day of the week quarterbacking regarding Obamacare around here, and all things fucking Hillary and Obama.
You lost yardage then and now that you are in the booth, you and Terry Bradshaw provide plenty of off-color play by play of a game no one is playing.
What I said.
What I said.
I’m going back to the poetry thread where at least something fucking rhymes.
I’m going back to the poetry thread where at least something fucking rhymes.
Marty, you are invited to go over to the new thread and post your promised analysis of the stimulus. Might be a better use of your time.
bc, that’s an interesting question, though please don’t forget the context here on this blog. Charles WT told us that Chinese don’t believe in the germ theory and when called on it, posted some videos of wet markets and asserted that Chinese said that, implying it wasn’t racist. Go back further (and given the fact that I am half Japanese) and you’ll see calling out of other knee jerk reflexes about the Yellow Peril and such. Folks here are generally not to bad about this, so it’s not been an obsession of mine, but in light of the current crisis, it serves thoughtful commentators well to take a beat before automatically serving up whatever hot take they have on China.
Your point about distrusting the numbers from China reminds me of a not at all funny joke that I remember from childhood, which has a person who has an accident involving a bunch of people from group X [I leave it to you to fill in which group it might be] that he (it was always a guy) killed. He says it was hard to hide the bodies because of all the screaming. The other person says “I thought you said they were all dead” to which the guy replies “Yeah, but you know how they lie” Sometimes, people complaining about Chinese lies about numbers is like the guy who says they always lie.
I can’t look in anyone’s head and heart and say if it is racist or not. But I think of my own epiphany, where I tut-tutted about the lawlessness in New Orleans after Katrina, because of pictures of African Americans ‘looting’ a store, and was then saw a picture of white people doing the same thing and having it listed as ‘redistributing supplies’.
So is distrusting the numbers racist? It depends on who is saying it and why they are saying it. But defensiveness is generally a tell. And if someone says they can’t be racist because they are praising South Korea’s approach, then it is likely they are, because they are seeing it thru the lens of race and coming up with post hoc justifications.
This may be taken as total proof of my crypto communist tendencies, but I can easily see a time in the far future where people are told the history of this event and it is explained that the virus revealed the rot that was at the heart of Western individualism and this should be taken as an object lesson as to why we should never trust Anglo-American folks. Because, after all, they always lie…
Marty, you are invited to go over to the new thread and post your promised analysis of the stimulus. Might be a better use of your time.
bc, that’s an interesting question, though please don’t forget the context here on this blog. Charles WT told us that Chinese don’t believe in the germ theory and when called on it, posted some videos of wet markets and asserted that Chinese said that, implying it wasn’t racist. Go back further (and given the fact that I am half Japanese) and you’ll see calling out of other knee jerk reflexes about the Yellow Peril and such. Folks here are generally not to bad about this, so it’s not been an obsession of mine, but in light of the current crisis, it serves thoughtful commentators well to take a beat before automatically serving up whatever hot take they have on China.
Your point about distrusting the numbers from China reminds me of a not at all funny joke that I remember from childhood, which has a person who has an accident involving a bunch of people from group X [I leave it to you to fill in which group it might be] that he (it was always a guy) killed. He says it was hard to hide the bodies because of all the screaming. The other person says “I thought you said they were all dead” to which the guy replies “Yeah, but you know how they lie” Sometimes, people complaining about Chinese lies about numbers is like the guy who says they always lie.
I can’t look in anyone’s head and heart and say if it is racist or not. But I think of my own epiphany, where I tut-tutted about the lawlessness in New Orleans after Katrina, because of pictures of African Americans ‘looting’ a store, and was then saw a picture of white people doing the same thing and having it listed as ‘redistributing supplies’.
So is distrusting the numbers racist? It depends on who is saying it and why they are saying it. But defensiveness is generally a tell. And if someone says they can’t be racist because they are praising South Korea’s approach, then it is likely they are, because they are seeing it thru the lens of race and coming up with post hoc justifications.
This may be taken as total proof of my crypto communist tendencies, but I can easily see a time in the far future where people are told the history of this event and it is explained that the virus revealed the rot that was at the heart of Western individualism and this should be taken as an object lesson as to why we should never trust Anglo-American folks. Because, after all, they always lie…
No, my final for a while, biting hooks refers to trolls. At this point it means having to have any discussion where someone disagrees with you about Trump, or much of anything else. I actually put out some facts, there are more. For example, the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved. He wasnt one of the early advisors on this.
Trump is most of what russell says,but the government response isnt. The focus on hating Trump prevents any legitimate discourse.
And on that note adieu.
No, my final for a while, biting hooks refers to trolls. At this point it means having to have any discussion where someone disagrees with you about Trump, or much of anything else. I actually put out some facts, there are more. For example, the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved. He wasnt one of the early advisors on this.
Trump is most of what russell says,but the government response isnt. The focus on hating Trump prevents any legitimate discourse.
And on that note adieu.
Marty, you put out ‘facts’ and claim any discussion against you is us ganging up on you. Just like Trump and the media. Unfortunately, we can’t get him to say adieu…
Marty, you put out ‘facts’ and claim any discussion against you is us ganging up on you. Just like Trump and the media. Unfortunately, we can’t get him to say adieu…
Ahh, for crying out loud Marty, stay well.
I love it when you speak French to me, mon ami.
I’ll save my Kushner rant for when you return, like the swallows to Capistrano.
Trump would say “adieu”, but he means he bolts the joint and doesn’t pay the bills that are due.
Ahh, for crying out loud Marty, stay well.
I love it when you speak French to me, mon ami.
I’ll save my Kushner rant for when you return, like the swallows to Capistrano.
Trump would say “adieu”, but he means he bolts the joint and doesn’t pay the bills that are due.
Lies, damned lies, and the utterings of certain governors.
Lies, damned lies, and the utterings of certain governors.
And if someone says they can’t be racist because they are praising South Korea’s approach, then it is likely they are, because they are seeing it thru the lens of race and coming up with post hoc justifications.
I’m not sure if this is in response to my mention of South Korea in contrast to North Korea, but “can’t be racist” isn’t that same as “isn’t necessarily racist.” And “ the lens of race” didn’t come from me. I get that there’s plenty of racism out there, and that anti-Chinese racism (and anti-East Asian racism by extension) is particularly in evidence right now, but I don’t trust the numbers coming out of China because it is run by a communist dictatorship and i’ve read that there’s evidence that suggests the death toll is higher than reported.
I hadn’t previously seen anything suggesting underreporting from Spain or Italy. And their numbers are terrible (as in lots of deaths), so there was no reason to be suspicious.
It’s not my hobby horse to criticize China. I was responding to McKinney’s assertion that we were being too hard on Rump while thinking China was beyond criticism (I guess because we weren’t actively criticizing China).
If I seem defensive, it could be because I hate racism and don’t want to be called a racist. I’d like to say I’m not at all racist, but that would leave me too lacking in self-awareness to be vigilant against whatever racist impulses I might have and would prefer to be rid of.
If you comment wasn’t directed at me, I’m sorry for any lost time spent reading this, lj. No hard feeling either way.
And if someone says they can’t be racist because they are praising South Korea’s approach, then it is likely they are, because they are seeing it thru the lens of race and coming up with post hoc justifications.
I’m not sure if this is in response to my mention of South Korea in contrast to North Korea, but “can’t be racist” isn’t that same as “isn’t necessarily racist.” And “ the lens of race” didn’t come from me. I get that there’s plenty of racism out there, and that anti-Chinese racism (and anti-East Asian racism by extension) is particularly in evidence right now, but I don’t trust the numbers coming out of China because it is run by a communist dictatorship and i’ve read that there’s evidence that suggests the death toll is higher than reported.
I hadn’t previously seen anything suggesting underreporting from Spain or Italy. And their numbers are terrible (as in lots of deaths), so there was no reason to be suspicious.
It’s not my hobby horse to criticize China. I was responding to McKinney’s assertion that we were being too hard on Rump while thinking China was beyond criticism (I guess because we weren’t actively criticizing China).
If I seem defensive, it could be because I hate racism and don’t want to be called a racist. I’d like to say I’m not at all racist, but that would leave me too lacking in self-awareness to be vigilant against whatever racist impulses I might have and would prefer to be rid of.
If you comment wasn’t directed at me, I’m sorry for any lost time spent reading this, lj. No hard feeling either way.
biting hooks refers to trolls
Actually, “don’t bite hooks” is one of the memorable aphorisms of my old guru Danaan Parry. It is a rule for life.
My old grammy had a lot of sayings too, one of which was “Don’t take names to yourself.”
Or do, if that’s how you roll.
biting hooks refers to trolls
Actually, “don’t bite hooks” is one of the memorable aphorisms of my old guru Danaan Parry. It is a rule for life.
My old grammy had a lot of sayings too, one of which was “Don’t take names to yourself.”
Or do, if that’s how you roll.
Hairshirt, not at all, apologies for not being clearer. My problem is that I wake up after a long thread and all the comments tend to go in the hopper. I’ll try to be more careful.
Hairshirt, not at all, apologies for not being clearer. My problem is that I wake up after a long thread and all the comments tend to go in the hopper. I’ll try to be more careful.
Charles WT told us that Chinese don’t believe in the germ theory and when called on it, posted some videos of wet markets and asserted that Chinese said that, implying it wasn’t racist.
Chinese doctors who practice western medicine, medical researchers, etc. certainly believe in the existence of parasites, pathogens, germs, and viruses. But much of the mainland Chinese population behave as though there are no such things.
And the government is promoting an aspect of traditional Chinese medicine as a treatment for the coronavirus. Maybe they’re promoting it for psychological effect. To give people a sense that they have control over something they don’t.
“Less than a month after taking steps to permanently ban the trade and consumption of live wild animals for food, the Chinese government has recommended using Tan Re Qing, an injection containing bear bile, to treat severe and critical COVID-19 cases. It is one of a number of recommended coronavirus treatments—both traditional and Western—on a list published March 4 by China’s National Health Commission, the government body responsible for national health policy. This recommendation highlights what wildlife advocates say is a contradictory approach to wildlife: shutting down the live trade in animals for food on the one hand and promoting the trade in animal parts on the other.”
China promotes bear bile as coronavirus treatment, alarming wildlife advocates: China’s National Health Commission published a list of recommended treatments, including injections that contain bear bile powder.
Charles WT told us that Chinese don’t believe in the germ theory and when called on it, posted some videos of wet markets and asserted that Chinese said that, implying it wasn’t racist.
Chinese doctors who practice western medicine, medical researchers, etc. certainly believe in the existence of parasites, pathogens, germs, and viruses. But much of the mainland Chinese population behave as though there are no such things.
And the government is promoting an aspect of traditional Chinese medicine as a treatment for the coronavirus. Maybe they’re promoting it for psychological effect. To give people a sense that they have control over something they don’t.
“Less than a month after taking steps to permanently ban the trade and consumption of live wild animals for food, the Chinese government has recommended using Tan Re Qing, an injection containing bear bile, to treat severe and critical COVID-19 cases. It is one of a number of recommended coronavirus treatments—both traditional and Western—on a list published March 4 by China’s National Health Commission, the government body responsible for national health policy. This recommendation highlights what wildlife advocates say is a contradictory approach to wildlife: shutting down the live trade in animals for food on the one hand and promoting the trade in animal parts on the other.”
China promotes bear bile as coronavirus treatment, alarming wildlife advocates: China’s National Health Commission published a list of recommended treatments, including injections that contain bear bile powder.
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
Then why is it that TX, FL, and GA just changed their policies the day after Trump admitted that this was serious business?
Sorry Bernie, but almost no one in a position of authority believed him. So you’re just wrong.
Then why is it that TX, FL, and GA just changed their policies the day after Trump admitted that this was serious business?
No worries, lj. Coincidences happen.
No worries, lj. Coincidences happen.
Sorry, this hook is so tempting. Marty exampled this:
For example, the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved. He wasnt one of the early advisors on this.
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1245536139789979650
from this post
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/04/failson-of-every-portfolio
Sorry, this hook is so tempting. Marty exampled this:
For example, the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved. He wasnt one of the early advisors on this.
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1245536139789979650
from this post
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/04/failson-of-every-portfolio
The good thing about the handwringing right’s collective shoulder shrug WRT Trump is that it allows them to put all the sins of their corrupt congressional support team on that poor goat. It’s Schrödinger’s Scapegoat – always laden with the collective guilt but never actually exiled into the desert to die.
I wonder how much more swift and effective the government response could have been had it not needed to thread the tiny needle of Trump’s… what? …attention span? …narcissism? …insecurity? Is there a word for all three as an AND statement?
We can’t ignore Trump because the GOP congresspeople have all chosen to keep him there at the head of the line in a position to do exactly what he is doing.
But it’s okay because government always makes mistakes.
Shrug.
The good thing about the handwringing right’s collective shoulder shrug WRT Trump is that it allows them to put all the sins of their corrupt congressional support team on that poor goat. It’s Schrödinger’s Scapegoat – always laden with the collective guilt but never actually exiled into the desert to die.
I wonder how much more swift and effective the government response could have been had it not needed to thread the tiny needle of Trump’s… what? …attention span? …narcissism? …insecurity? Is there a word for all three as an AND statement?
We can’t ignore Trump because the GOP congresspeople have all chosen to keep him there at the head of the line in a position to do exactly what he is doing.
But it’s okay because government always makes mistakes.
Shrug.
For anyone who thinks that the media is overhyping the situation (I think I’ve seen that here, and very recently, but can’t remember who said it), here’s a sobering note.
I would like to comment, but am too exhausted by other issues going on IRL right now.
For anyone who thinks that the media is overhyping the situation (I think I’ve seen that here, and very recently, but can’t remember who said it), here’s a sobering note.
I would like to comment, but am too exhausted by other issues going on IRL right now.
Schrödinger’s Scapegoat
Priceless.
Schrödinger’s Scapegoat
Priceless.
Great comment in the Yglesias twitter thread lj linked to:
*arrives in Cambridge with $10 million, sees real estate there is kind of expensive, looks at a map* “Somerville… I bet no one’s ever thought of *that*.”
Great comment in the Yglesias twitter thread lj linked to:
*arrives in Cambridge with $10 million, sees real estate there is kind of expensive, looks at a map* “Somerville… I bet no one’s ever thought of *that*.”
I will be back in the makes the world go round thread, I will wait until tomorrow as media is now hyping that pretty dishonestly.
But the link in JanieM’s i:07 is a must read and answers a bunch of questions I have had. So whatever we do now, testing treatments,building ventilators, stockpiling masks and gloves may pay off in October and save a lot of lives. Thanks for that one.
I will be back in the makes the world go round thread, I will wait until tomorrow as media is now hyping that pretty dishonestly.
But the link in JanieM’s i:07 is a must read and answers a bunch of questions I have had. So whatever we do now, testing treatments,building ventilators, stockpiling masks and gloves may pay off in October and save a lot of lives. Thanks for that one.
To McKinney and others were (rightly) horrified at the treatment of Dr. Li (the reluctant whistleblower who was punished, and then died of Covid-19) see how much better we are:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351
To McKinney and others were (rightly) horrified at the treatment of Dr. Li (the reluctant whistleblower who was punished, and then died of Covid-19) see how much better we are:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351
Thanks for that one.
My son sent me the link. Glad it was useful. I do think it’s worth a discussion, I just can’t do it right now.
Sorry, this hook is so tempting.
Bite all the hooks you want. I’ll complain all I want. 😉
Thanks for that one.
My son sent me the link. Glad it was useful. I do think it’s worth a discussion, I just can’t do it right now.
Sorry, this hook is so tempting.
Bite all the hooks you want. I’ll complain all I want. 😉
But much of the mainland Chinese population behave as though there are no such things.
As I said, defensiveness is a tell…
But much of the mainland Chinese population behave as though there are no such things.
As I said, defensiveness is a tell…
Anyhow, let’s all chant together: Don’t bite hooks.
Good advice, always.
I don’t have a dog, so I can’t kick the dog. My wife gets annoyed if I kick the furniture.
So I come here to ObWi and vent.
Heard from our step-son tonight, it’s been a while, because he’s a guy and guys are often like that. He lives on the west coast, it was good to hear his voice and know that he’s well.
the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved.
And, of course, Kushner is the reason why. Because Kushner is secretly an expert in pandemic response, like he’s secretly an expert in the Middle East and every other thing Trump puts on his plate.
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
Somewhere, somehow, Kushner is making money off of COVID-19. Because the only way these bastards know how to relate to the world is by how they can make money off of it.
No more hooks for me tonight.
Anyhow, let’s all chant together: Don’t bite hooks.
Good advice, always.
I don’t have a dog, so I can’t kick the dog. My wife gets annoyed if I kick the furniture.
So I come here to ObWi and vent.
Heard from our step-son tonight, it’s been a while, because he’s a guy and guys are often like that. He lives on the west coast, it was good to hear his voice and know that he’s well.
the federal response has improved significantly since Kushner got involved.
And, of course, Kushner is the reason why. Because Kushner is secretly an expert in pandemic response, like he’s secretly an expert in the Middle East and every other thing Trump puts on his plate.
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
Somewhere, somehow, Kushner is making money off of COVID-19. Because the only way these bastards know how to relate to the world is by how they can make money off of it.
No more hooks for me tonight.
Remember when he was going to fix the opioid crisis?
Remember when he was going to fix the opioid crisis?
And peace in the Middle East is going so well, too.
And peace in the Middle East is going so well, too.
I blame President Barack Obama, that moderate, for not ordering the summary execution and slaughter of this Bundy, the old fart Bundy and his tax liens, all of the future Bundys six generations hence, his moo cow, his dumb rabid dog, and his 4×4.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ammon-bundy-pledges-physical-defense-for-those-who-defy-idahos-covid-19-order
It’s time to goddamned kill.
We can horse around waiting for McKinney’s “due process”.
That shit NEVER lands anywhere near the republican conservative armed right wing.
Due process from now on is a bullet in the brain stem for America’s forseeable future.
Am I getting out of control again, or am I voicing the truth everyone knows in their best American selves?
They want to kill us.
I blame President Barack Obama, that moderate, for not ordering the summary execution and slaughter of this Bundy, the old fart Bundy and his tax liens, all of the future Bundys six generations hence, his moo cow, his dumb rabid dog, and his 4×4.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ammon-bundy-pledges-physical-defense-for-those-who-defy-idahos-covid-19-order
It’s time to goddamned kill.
We can horse around waiting for McKinney’s “due process”.
That shit NEVER lands anywhere near the republican conservative armed right wing.
Due process from now on is a bullet in the brain stem for America’s forseeable future.
Am I getting out of control again, or am I voicing the truth everyone knows in their best American selves?
They want to kill us.
Actually, the reason the West Bank and other hot spots are so quiet, despite the Netanyahoo corrupt oppression, is that Kushner has transferred his opioid business over there to keep the Palestinian proles sedated while far right conservative Israelis, after they get done liquidating liberal and moderate Jews, can expand their plantations.
The crisis wasn’t fixed. It was moved.
Killing one bird with two stones.
Actually, the reason the West Bank and other hot spots are so quiet, despite the Netanyahoo corrupt oppression, is that Kushner has transferred his opioid business over there to keep the Palestinian proles sedated while far right conservative Israelis, after they get done liquidating liberal and moderate Jews, can expand their plantations.
The crisis wasn’t fixed. It was moved.
Killing one bird with two stones.
Am I getting out of control again, or am I voicing the truth everyone knows in their best American selves?
What exactly do you think you’re accomplishing by beating your for-the-most-part allies over the head all day long with your so-called “truths”?
nous wrote, a while back, that “Returning fire here isn’t firing for effect.”
I would say you are firing for effect, but the effect isn’t being visited on your enemies, it’s being visited on your friends, in the form of cluttering up threads with incoherent shouting, constantly obsessing on gruesome violence, and chanting an endless litany of nasty words just to hear yourself say them.
Do you actually think you’re inspiring people to action of some sort? What action? To what effect, in real life? You could shout violent words at me all day long to try to get me to go out on the court in the fourth quarter of the NBA finals and help the Celtics beat the Lakers, but it wouldn’t do a damned bit of good for either me or the Celtics.
In fact, being shouted at constantly does me, at least, some harm. If that’s what you intend (and with your repetition of certain words and phrases, I more or less believe it is), then you’re succeeding.
At a minimum, there’s harm in the fact that a blog where I like to hang out is almost uninhabitable when you fill up vast amounts of the airtime with words of hatred and despair. I can’t speak for anyone else, but it certainly isn’t inspiring me to do a damned thing except go away from here. It’s unpleasant and wearisome, to no good end that I can see, except apparently to satisfy some need of yours to keep shouting hateful words.
Am I getting out of control again, or am I voicing the truth everyone knows in their best American selves?
What exactly do you think you’re accomplishing by beating your for-the-most-part allies over the head all day long with your so-called “truths”?
nous wrote, a while back, that “Returning fire here isn’t firing for effect.”
I would say you are firing for effect, but the effect isn’t being visited on your enemies, it’s being visited on your friends, in the form of cluttering up threads with incoherent shouting, constantly obsessing on gruesome violence, and chanting an endless litany of nasty words just to hear yourself say them.
Do you actually think you’re inspiring people to action of some sort? What action? To what effect, in real life? You could shout violent words at me all day long to try to get me to go out on the court in the fourth quarter of the NBA finals and help the Celtics beat the Lakers, but it wouldn’t do a damned bit of good for either me or the Celtics.
In fact, being shouted at constantly does me, at least, some harm. If that’s what you intend (and with your repetition of certain words and phrases, I more or less believe it is), then you’re succeeding.
At a minimum, there’s harm in the fact that a blog where I like to hang out is almost uninhabitable when you fill up vast amounts of the airtime with words of hatred and despair. I can’t speak for anyone else, but it certainly isn’t inspiring me to do a damned thing except go away from here. It’s unpleasant and wearisome, to no good end that I can see, except apparently to satisfy some need of yours to keep shouting hateful words.
What Janie said
What Janie said
lj:
If the comment was aimed at me, I respond “what HSH said.”
I think Asians are great. I love the culture, the food (I make Thai and Vietnamese food regularly, forced to because I’m almost two hours from civilization), dated Asians in college, represented a quasi-governmental entity of Japan and I study a Korean martial art. When you said your “crypto communist tendencies” I had a good chuckle and thought the opposite in me, spurred on no doubt by my grandmother’s stories. Don’t get her talking about the WWII Russian pilots flying lend-lease aircraft from my home town. I think communism stinks. And that puts it mildly. So my distrust of info from China is regime distrust.
BTW, regarding the germ theory comment, I couldn’t help but think of the story I read about crazy conspiracy theories racing through French social media, one of which is that the Paris Institut Pasteur created the virus. The Institut had to respond. Because, you know, father of germ theory + Shanghai Pasteur Institute + Wuhan = something.
lj:
If the comment was aimed at me, I respond “what HSH said.”
I think Asians are great. I love the culture, the food (I make Thai and Vietnamese food regularly, forced to because I’m almost two hours from civilization), dated Asians in college, represented a quasi-governmental entity of Japan and I study a Korean martial art. When you said your “crypto communist tendencies” I had a good chuckle and thought the opposite in me, spurred on no doubt by my grandmother’s stories. Don’t get her talking about the WWII Russian pilots flying lend-lease aircraft from my home town. I think communism stinks. And that puts it mildly. So my distrust of info from China is regime distrust.
BTW, regarding the germ theory comment, I couldn’t help but think of the story I read about crazy conspiracy theories racing through French social media, one of which is that the Paris Institut Pasteur created the virus. The Institut had to respond. Because, you know, father of germ theory + Shanghai Pasteur Institute + Wuhan = something.
https://youtu.be/slcYmN0XtdQ?t=363
just the part from 6:03 to 6:47
This looks like a (not very funny) piece from a late night show. Poe’s law at work again.
Time for the 16 ton weight or the giant foot from the intro.
https://youtu.be/slcYmN0XtdQ?t=363
just the part from 6:03 to 6:47
This looks like a (not very funny) piece from a late night show. Poe’s law at work again.
Time for the 16 ton weight or the giant foot from the intro.
Wow, what a thing to wake up to. Janie is absolutely right: JDT’s heart (and on past record his brain) is in very much the right place, but by thrashing around in the way he does he accomplishes no harm to his enemies, and no good to his friends. We are in a firestorm, our every little action has consequences, and JDT is doing a lot more than fluttering his beautiful butterfly wings (see chaos theory for reference).
Wow, what a thing to wake up to. Janie is absolutely right: JDT’s heart (and on past record his brain) is in very much the right place, but by thrashing around in the way he does he accomplishes no harm to his enemies, and no good to his friends. We are in a firestorm, our every little action has consequences, and JDT is doing a lot more than fluttering his beautiful butterfly wings (see chaos theory for reference).
I’ll go quiet again.
Be safe everyone.
I’ll go quiet again.
Be safe everyone.
No one thinks it’s a hoax, and he never said it was.
bullshit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-deniers-outbreak-hoax/2020/03/19/46bc5e46-6872-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html
No one thinks it’s a hoax, and he never said it was.
bullshit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-deniers-outbreak-hoax/2020/03/19/46bc5e46-6872-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html
This is from Jackass’s speech at his February 28th rally in South Carolina. Snopes makes the distinction that he was not referring to the virus itself as a hoax, but to the Democrats’ response to it. From Snopes again:
In context, Trump did not say in the passage above that the virus itself was a hoax. He instead said that Democrats’ criticism of his administration’s response to it was a hoax. He muddied the waters a few minutes later, however, by comparing the number of coronavirus fatalities in the U.S. (none, at that point in time) to the number of fatalities during an average flu season, and accusing the press of being in “hysteria mode”:
I think you’d have to be in a pretty intentionally obtuse state of mind (therefore not arguing in good faith, if you knew the above information) to think he never said it was a hoax.
This is from Jackass’s speech at his February 28th rally in South Carolina. Snopes makes the distinction that he was not referring to the virus itself as a hoax, but to the Democrats’ response to it. From Snopes again:
In context, Trump did not say in the passage above that the virus itself was a hoax. He instead said that Democrats’ criticism of his administration’s response to it was a hoax. He muddied the waters a few minutes later, however, by comparing the number of coronavirus fatalities in the U.S. (none, at that point in time) to the number of fatalities during an average flu season, and accusing the press of being in “hysteria mode”:
I think you’d have to be in a pretty intentionally obtuse state of mind (therefore not arguing in good faith, if you knew the above information) to think he never said it was a hoax.
hoax
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmW_H4U-MI
the GOP is a fucking hoax
hoax
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmW_H4U-MI
the GOP is a fucking hoax
I think you’d have to be in a pretty intentionally obtuse state of mind (therefore not arguing in good faith, if you knew the above information) to think he never said it was a hoax.
In “defense” of the president, it’s such an incoherent stream of loosely connected sentences that it’s hard to know precisely what he’s trying to say. ;^)
I think you’d have to be in a pretty intentionally obtuse state of mind (therefore not arguing in good faith, if you knew the above information) to think he never said it was a hoax.
In “defense” of the president, it’s such an incoherent stream of loosely connected sentences that it’s hard to know precisely what he’s trying to say. ;^)
“the GOP is a fucking hoax”
The GOP is in NO WAY a hoax.
It’s a national brain-worm pandemic. The patient is going on life-support.
“the GOP is a fucking hoax”
The GOP is in NO WAY a hoax.
It’s a national brain-worm pandemic. The patient is going on life-support.
bc, the immediate context of my call out is here
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/02/wuhans-on-first-.html?cid=6a00d834515c2369e20240a4ec534e200d#comment-6a00d834515c2369e20240a4ec534e200d
I was also answering you and took your question as an honest one. I realize that, but I have to note that I don’t and can’t know if it was honest, only you can say that and I’m certainly more than happy to take your word for it. But it does help us understand why it can be almost impossible to get to grips with racism.
Also, not doubting you at all, but I would observe that
(I make Thai and Vietnamese food regularly, forced to because I’m almost two hours from civilization), dated Asians in college, represented a quasi-governmental entity of Japan and I study a Korean martial art.
Really doesn’t prove (or disprove) anything. People can do (and have done) all those things and still be racist. It is like ‘I can’t be racist because some of my best friends are black” or “I can’t be sexist because I have two daughters”.
This is not to dismiss your experiences, and I didn’t (and don’t) think you are racist and wasn’t calling you out for any unconscious racism. But it is not as simple as I’m not racist because I do/don’t do X
bc, the immediate context of my call out is here
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/02/wuhans-on-first-.html?cid=6a00d834515c2369e20240a4ec534e200d#comment-6a00d834515c2369e20240a4ec534e200d
I was also answering you and took your question as an honest one. I realize that, but I have to note that I don’t and can’t know if it was honest, only you can say that and I’m certainly more than happy to take your word for it. But it does help us understand why it can be almost impossible to get to grips with racism.
Also, not doubting you at all, but I would observe that
(I make Thai and Vietnamese food regularly, forced to because I’m almost two hours from civilization), dated Asians in college, represented a quasi-governmental entity of Japan and I study a Korean martial art.
Really doesn’t prove (or disprove) anything. People can do (and have done) all those things and still be racist. It is like ‘I can’t be racist because some of my best friends are black” or “I can’t be sexist because I have two daughters”.
This is not to dismiss your experiences, and I didn’t (and don’t) think you are racist and wasn’t calling you out for any unconscious racism. But it is not as simple as I’m not racist because I do/don’t do X
I obviously disagree. I think you have to be prepared to read/listen assuming the worst possible interpretation of that speech to conclude he was talking about anything but the Democrats attack on him as a hoax.
Which is true, it was just the next thing they jumped on that gets repeated as fact over and over.
The Democratries are a cult. Built on hating Trump for everything.
I obviously disagree. I think you have to be prepared to read/listen assuming the worst possible interpretation of that speech to conclude he was talking about anything but the Democrats attack on him as a hoax.
Which is true, it was just the next thing they jumped on that gets repeated as fact over and over.
The Democratries are a cult. Built on hating Trump for everything.
Okayyyyy….
Okayyyyy….
You hear 35 and 40,000 people, and we’ve lost nobody, and you wonder, the press is in hysteria mode.
Perhaps not exactly calling it a hoax, but definitely hoax-curious.
You hear 35 and 40,000 people, and we’ve lost nobody, and you wonder, the press is in hysteria mode.
Perhaps not exactly calling it a hoax, but definitely hoax-curious.
Yes, touting the magnificent figures so far, and talking about the press being in “hysteria mode” sure would suggest a hoax to most impartial people.
Yes, touting the magnificent figures so far, and talking about the press being in “hysteria mode” sure would suggest a hoax to most impartial people.
Trump has done nothing but downplay this, even now. and as a result, Republicans have consistently told pollsters that they think the whole thing is overblown.
so when he said “And this is their new hoax”, people who think it’s overblown are not going to do detailed transcript parsing to figure out that he meant anything but what he’s been saying all along: it’s no big deal, it’s under control, get back to work, keep the stock market happy.
Trump has done nothing but downplay this, even now. and as a result, Republicans have consistently told pollsters that they think the whole thing is overblown.
so when he said “And this is their new hoax”, people who think it’s overblown are not going to do detailed transcript parsing to figure out that he meant anything but what he’s been saying all along: it’s no big deal, it’s under control, get back to work, keep the stock market happy.
Built on hating Trump for everything.
What did Democrats do before Trump was there? I guess was they were without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Trump moved upon the face of the waters. And Trump said, Let there be light: and oh boy, it was great, it was perfect and there was this wonderful light… well you get the picture…
Built on hating Trump for everything.
What did Democrats do before Trump was there? I guess was they were without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Trump moved upon the face of the waters. And Trump said, Let there be light: and oh boy, it was great, it was perfect and there was this wonderful light… well you get the picture…
Part of the problem, along the lines of my earlier half-joke about Orange Comb-over Man’s verbal incoherence, is that he, being the President of the United States of America, should be careful about what he says and make the greatest possible effort to be as clear as possible about what he’s saying publicly (and probably privately, depending on the context).
Instead, it’s always some combination of “Maybe he said that, and maybe he didn’t” or “He was just joking” or “What I think he really meant was” or whatever other ambiguous formulation you want to add.
The man seems incapable of speaking clearly. That or he’s unclear on purpose, so he always has plausible deniability about whatever he says, ever. (“She’s going to go through some things” isn’t necessarily a threat, right?)
If nothing else, the guy’s a f**king mess and doesn’t seem to be interested not being a f**king mess, and that’s bad enough in and of itself.
Part of the problem, along the lines of my earlier half-joke about Orange Comb-over Man’s verbal incoherence, is that he, being the President of the United States of America, should be careful about what he says and make the greatest possible effort to be as clear as possible about what he’s saying publicly (and probably privately, depending on the context).
Instead, it’s always some combination of “Maybe he said that, and maybe he didn’t” or “He was just joking” or “What I think he really meant was” or whatever other ambiguous formulation you want to add.
The man seems incapable of speaking clearly. That or he’s unclear on purpose, so he always has plausible deniability about whatever he says, ever. (“She’s going to go through some things” isn’t necessarily a threat, right?)
If nothing else, the guy’s a f**king mess and doesn’t seem to be interested not being a f**king mess, and that’s bad enough in and of itself.
And to sort of invert lj’s comment, I was hating Trump long before I had much of a political identity and long before he was president. Given the alternatives, I can say that I’m strongly Democratic today, but that wasn’t true 30 years ago. And, 30 years ago, Trump wasn’t a political figure. Somehow, I still thought he was an a**hole without my being a Democrat and without his being a Republican president.
And to sort of invert lj’s comment, I was hating Trump long before I had much of a political identity and long before he was president. Given the alternatives, I can say that I’m strongly Democratic today, but that wasn’t true 30 years ago. And, 30 years ago, Trump wasn’t a political figure. Somehow, I still thought he was an a**hole without my being a Democrat and without his being a Republican president.
“The man seems incapable of speaking clearly”
I agree. He just shouldnt talk.
“The man seems incapable of speaking clearly”
I agree. He just shouldnt talk.
The man seems incapable of speaking clearly. That or he’s unclear on purpose,
either way, to pay attention to him and point out that he’s misleading people about a pandemic is cultish. so we’d better just zip it.
The man seems incapable of speaking clearly. That or he’s unclear on purpose,
either way, to pay attention to him and point out that he’s misleading people about a pandemic is cultish. so we’d better just zip it.
A possible upside to Trump is that his inner and outer dialogs seem to be nearly identical. For a lot of politicians, their inner and outer dialogs have never had a sitdown for coffee together. On the other hand, it’s scary that his inner dialog might be so muddled.
A possible upside to Trump is that his inner and outer dialogs seem to be nearly identical. For a lot of politicians, their inner and outer dialogs have never had a sitdown for coffee together. On the other hand, it’s scary that his inner dialog might be so muddled.
it’s scary that his inner dialog might be so muddled.
To use an idiom that I normally detest, but is the only thing that will do here: no shit, Sherlock.
it’s scary that his inner dialog might be so muddled.
To use an idiom that I normally detest, but is the only thing that will do here: no shit, Sherlock.
He just shouldnt talk.
I’m pretty sure everybody here agrees on that. And also that nobody here thinks there’s the slightest chance of that happening.
He just shouldnt talk.
I’m pretty sure everybody here agrees on that. And also that nobody here thinks there’s the slightest chance of that happening.
he should resign and throw himself into the ocean.
the worst part about him losing in November is going to be that the press is still going to cover his tweets as if they’re important news. and he’s going to do hundreds more Hannity interviews. and he’s never going to STFU until the end of time.
he should resign and throw himself into the ocean.
the worst part about him losing in November is going to be that the press is still going to cover his tweets as if they’re important news. and he’s going to do hundreds more Hannity interviews. and he’s never going to STFU until the end of time.
An anecdote, FWIW: I was talking to a Trump-supporting friend a week ago. I’ve been following worldometers.info somewhat obsessively for about 3 weeks now. I told my friend that, the way things were trending, we’d be counting US cases in the millions and deaths in the tens of thousands in 3 or 4 weeks (i.e. 2 or 3 weeks from now).
His response was a very dismissive, “I don’t think so.” Why not? Just don’t. (You know that look where you kind of pull your head back, scrunch up your face, raise an eyebrow or one side of your mouth, and shake your head back in forth like you’re gesturing “no” for a second? Like that. The body-language equivalent of “Whatever. You’re nuts.”)
At the time, reported cases were just under 100K and deaths around 1500. I’m assuming I don’t need to tell anyone where those numbers are today, one week later. I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
An anecdote, FWIW: I was talking to a Trump-supporting friend a week ago. I’ve been following worldometers.info somewhat obsessively for about 3 weeks now. I told my friend that, the way things were trending, we’d be counting US cases in the millions and deaths in the tens of thousands in 3 or 4 weeks (i.e. 2 or 3 weeks from now).
His response was a very dismissive, “I don’t think so.” Why not? Just don’t. (You know that look where you kind of pull your head back, scrunch up your face, raise an eyebrow or one side of your mouth, and shake your head back in forth like you’re gesturing “no” for a second? Like that. The body-language equivalent of “Whatever. You’re nuts.”)
At the time, reported cases were just under 100K and deaths around 1500. I’m assuming I don’t need to tell anyone where those numbers are today, one week later. I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
hsh, it would be interesting to know. Do report back if and when you speak to him again. Charting a Trump-supporter’s journey (after all, we don’t have any open ones here) would be fascinating.
hsh, it would be interesting to know. Do report back if and when you speak to him again. Charting a Trump-supporter’s journey (after all, we don’t have any open ones here) would be fascinating.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
As for your (hsh’s) friend — amongst all the other supports for not believing it’s going to get that bad is a complete lack of interest in the math. I mean, what does math have to do with real life, right?
Has the guy seen a picture of one of the curve projections? Does he understand the effect of multiplying 2x2x2x2x2, or whatever, for some period of time? If so, does he then think God is going to intervene and stop the spread? I mean, he isn’t just arguing that he won’t get very sick, and who cares if other people die, he’s arguing the numbers.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
As for your (hsh’s) friend — amongst all the other supports for not believing it’s going to get that bad is a complete lack of interest in the math. I mean, what does math have to do with real life, right?
Has the guy seen a picture of one of the curve projections? Does he understand the effect of multiplying 2x2x2x2x2, or whatever, for some period of time? If so, does he then think God is going to intervene and stop the spread? I mean, he isn’t just arguing that he won’t get very sick, and who cares if other people die, he’s arguing the numbers.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
2nd response to this: I don’t know about SFJ supporters, but an awful lot of people have had to stop on a dime and change direction more than once in the past month.
I watched as our local school officials went through the following sequence in a little more than a week:
1) new virus going around, we’re keeping an eye on things and will send kids home if they’re sick
2) we’re canceling after-school activities, but we do not believe there’s any reason to cancel school (the principal of one of the bigger high schools in the state said, publicly, that okay, it might make sense to empty the colleges, but younger kids don’t travel much, so it wasn’t necessary to consider closing elementary and high schools: IOW, a mind-boggling head-in-sand refusal to accept that there was going to be community spread)
3) about three days later: schools closed for two weeks.
4) toward the end of that period: schools closed until the end of April.
And so it goes.
I suppose there’s a combination causes, including people getting bad information, and people just not wanting to believe it. Hard to blame them for the latter, really, because this is a situation unprecedented in our lives. But it’s nice when public officials step up and show some leadership.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
2nd response to this: I don’t know about SFJ supporters, but an awful lot of people have had to stop on a dime and change direction more than once in the past month.
I watched as our local school officials went through the following sequence in a little more than a week:
1) new virus going around, we’re keeping an eye on things and will send kids home if they’re sick
2) we’re canceling after-school activities, but we do not believe there’s any reason to cancel school (the principal of one of the bigger high schools in the state said, publicly, that okay, it might make sense to empty the colleges, but younger kids don’t travel much, so it wasn’t necessary to consider closing elementary and high schools: IOW, a mind-boggling head-in-sand refusal to accept that there was going to be community spread)
3) about three days later: schools closed for two weeks.
4) toward the end of that period: schools closed until the end of April.
And so it goes.
I suppose there’s a combination causes, including people getting bad information, and people just not wanting to believe it. Hard to blame them for the latter, really, because this is a situation unprecedented in our lives. But it’s nice when public officials step up and show some leadership.
His response was a very dismissive, “I don’t think so.” Why not? Just don’t.
Conversation over. At least for that topic.
People aren’t gonna hear what they don’t wanna hear. If you try to make them, they’re only gonna be pissed at you.
Some folks will figure stuff out over time, some won’t.
His response was a very dismissive, “I don’t think so.” Why not? Just don’t.
Conversation over. At least for that topic.
People aren’t gonna hear what they don’t wanna hear. If you try to make them, they’re only gonna be pissed at you.
Some folks will figure stuff out over time, some won’t.
I have seen the kind of sequence of realizations outlined in my 11:59 in almost everyone I know, including people who understand math but just aren’t paying attention, or are paying attention to the wrong news outlets, or who just don’t want to believe it’s happening here (“here” meaning planet earth, I guess, and in their lifetimes).
For better and worse, I started reading Anne Laurie’s daily COVID-19 posts at BJ on 1/21. For a while I felt like Cassandra. Three of my relatives work at WDW in Orlando, and one of my other relatives said, by text one day, that she couldn’t imagine Disney every considering closing. At that point the parks in Asia had already been closed for a month (she didn’t know that), and WDW announced its own closure later that day, IIRC. Some people don’t spent all day on the internet and so hadn’t heard much, and some people didn’t want to believe it, and, to repeat myself, none of us has ever been in a situation remotely like this before.
Lots of lags. I too would be curious to know if hsh’s friend’s thinking evolves. My pessimistic guess is that the facts will eventually be undeniable, and then, given that he’s a fan of SFJ, he’ll blame it all on the Democrats.
I have seen the kind of sequence of realizations outlined in my 11:59 in almost everyone I know, including people who understand math but just aren’t paying attention, or are paying attention to the wrong news outlets, or who just don’t want to believe it’s happening here (“here” meaning planet earth, I guess, and in their lifetimes).
For better and worse, I started reading Anne Laurie’s daily COVID-19 posts at BJ on 1/21. For a while I felt like Cassandra. Three of my relatives work at WDW in Orlando, and one of my other relatives said, by text one day, that she couldn’t imagine Disney every considering closing. At that point the parks in Asia had already been closed for a month (she didn’t know that), and WDW announced its own closure later that day, IIRC. Some people don’t spent all day on the internet and so hadn’t heard much, and some people didn’t want to believe it, and, to repeat myself, none of us has ever been in a situation remotely like this before.
Lots of lags. I too would be curious to know if hsh’s friend’s thinking evolves. My pessimistic guess is that the facts will eventually be undeniable, and then, given that he’s a fan of SFJ, he’ll blame it all on the Democrats.
and he’s never going to STFU until the end of time.
Hope you’re wrong, although that may be coming sooner that I’d thought.
and he’s never going to STFU until the end of time.
Hope you’re wrong, although that may be coming sooner that I’d thought.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
Since Trump is now saying that, if we keep the number of deaths to 100,000 to 200,000 (well past mere 10s of thousands), and since Trump supporters have what Alexandra Petri of the Washington Post calls the attention span of a goldfish, the bubble probably has not burst fr him. Even if the specifics have changed — he won’t have noticed.
I’d be curious to know if whatever bubble he was in has since been burst.
Since Trump is now saying that, if we keep the number of deaths to 100,000 to 200,000 (well past mere 10s of thousands), and since Trump supporters have what Alexandra Petri of the Washington Post calls the attention span of a goldfish, the bubble probably has not burst fr him. Even if the specifics have changed — he won’t have noticed.
To be clear, I had my own learning curve. I just started climbing it a little sooner than other people I know.
wj — your link needs a tweak.
Fixed. Thanks for catching that.
To be clear, I had my own learning curve. I just started climbing it a little sooner than other people I know.
wj — your link needs a tweak.
Fixed. Thanks for catching that.
Do report back if and when you speak to him again.
He’s one of those guys who, if he has changed his thinking, will say, “I never said that.” He will have always been at war with Eastasia.
Do report back if and when you speak to him again.
He’s one of those guys who, if he has changed his thinking, will say, “I never said that.” He will have always been at war with Eastasia.
the data isn’t in on the question of: does Fox News makes its audience dumber or does the dumber audience self-select Fox News?
the data isn’t in on the question of: does Fox News makes its audience dumber or does the dumber audience self-select Fox News?
Some people are wary of China’s numbers, and rightfully so. But take a look at this: https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1247573157504057345
It’s probably a reality of this disease that getting a handle on numbers is going to be really hard. This would probably be true under the best of governments, but our President constantly lies. I mean, the inaugural attendance, FFS. So “trusting” the numbers, when he has an interest in what they say about him … good luck with that.
Some people are wary of China’s numbers, and rightfully so. But take a look at this: https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1247573157504057345
It’s probably a reality of this disease that getting a handle on numbers is going to be really hard. This would probably be true under the best of governments, but our President constantly lies. I mean, the inaugural attendance, FFS. So “trusting” the numbers, when he has an interest in what they say about him … good luck with that.