Look! A brand-new thread!

by

by liberal japonicus

Well, thru the magic of the timezone, I can tell you that the world didn’t end on Tuesday. That’s my Tuesday though. I imagine we need a clean thread to keep up with things. Have at it.

514 thoughts on “Look! A brand-new thread!”

  3. Spent an hour this afternoon setting up the polling location. (So as not to have to do it ultra-early Tuesday. It’s going to be a long enough day as is.)
    One of my 6 poll workers phoned in that she had potentially been exposed to covid over the weekend, and so was out pending test results. But late in the day she got negative results back, so I’m back to full staff.
    We’re all hoping for a quiet day. (Something like 75% of our registered voters have already got their ballots mailed in.) But a couple of folks are twitchy about possible voter intimidation and such like nonsense. I’m optimistic. But we’ve got the sheriff on speed dial, just in case.

  4. Spent an hour this afternoon setting up the polling location. (So as not to have to do it ultra-early Tuesday. It’s going to be a long enough day as is.)
    One of my 6 poll workers phoned in that she had potentially been exposed to covid over the weekend, and so was out pending test results. But late in the day she got negative results back, so I’m back to full staff.
    We’re all hoping for a quiet day. (Something like 75% of our registered voters have already got their ballots mailed in.) But a couple of folks are twitchy about possible voter intimidation and such like nonsense. I’m optimistic. But we’ve got the sheriff on speed dial, just in case.

  5. wj — good luck tomorrow. I hope you don’t need to speed dial the sheriff! Are you allowed to bring something to read in case the day is very quiet? Or does conversing with your crew suffice for entertainment…?

  6. wj — good luck tomorrow. I hope you don’t need to speed dial the sheriff! Are you allowed to bring something to read in case the day is very quiet? Or does conversing with your crew suffice for entertainment…?

  9. wj, you have an iphone? Check this out
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/apps/a32892510/siri-pulled-over-police-recording-shortcut/
    This doesnā€™t work unless youā€™ve installed the Shortcuts app, and download the actual shortcut itself. You will also need to give it certain permissions in the Shortcuts app these are all safe, they just allow the commands to run.
    There is a link to click on at the end of this article.
    https://www.wthr.com/article/news/trending-viral/siri-im-getting-pulled-over-iphone-shortcut-records-police-interactions/531-27d439f1-e744-4942-abe7-63ecb1ee727d
    You might want to record something first, hoping it doesn’t come to that.

  10. wj, you have an iphone? Check this out
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/apps/a32892510/siri-pulled-over-police-recording-shortcut/
    This doesnā€™t work unless youā€™ve installed the Shortcuts app, and download the actual shortcut itself. You will also need to give it certain permissions in the Shortcuts app these are all safe, they just allow the commands to run.
    There is a link to click on at the end of this article.
    https://www.wthr.com/article/news/trending-viral/siri-im-getting-pulled-over-iphone-shortcut-records-police-interactions/531-27d439f1-e744-4942-abe7-63ecb1ee727d
    You might want to record something first, hoping it doesn’t come to that.

  11. Janie, as far as I know we’re allowed to read if things get quiet. The Poll Worker’s Guide explicitly recommends bringing handwork, so that seems like a reasonably parallel activity.
    My plan, such as it is, is to start out speaking reasonably. Then take advantage of the fact that I’m 6’3″ and loom at those who are not willing to be reasonable. Only if that doesn’t work is there reason to call the authorities.
    We do have what I suspect is the advantage of being in an upscale and relatively conservative (for the Bay Area) area. So I’m guessing that those inclined to voter harassment will go off to someplace with more anti-Trump inclinations. Not that he’s exactly a hero here either. But there are places like San Francisco and Berkeley, not to mention a couple majority-Black cities, within 25 miles. Far better targets than we are.

  12. Janie, as far as I know we’re allowed to read if things get quiet. The Poll Worker’s Guide explicitly recommends bringing handwork, so that seems like a reasonably parallel activity.
    My plan, such as it is, is to start out speaking reasonably. Then take advantage of the fact that I’m 6’3″ and loom at those who are not willing to be reasonable. Only if that doesn’t work is there reason to call the authorities.
    We do have what I suspect is the advantage of being in an upscale and relatively conservative (for the Bay Area) area. So I’m guessing that those inclined to voter harassment will go off to someplace with more anti-Trump inclinations. Not that he’s exactly a hero here either. But there are places like San Francisco and Berkeley, not to mention a couple majority-Black cities, within 25 miles. Far better targets than we are.

  17. https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/11/02/a-few-final-words-from-president-lincoln/
    Referenced therein:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1632203588/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Notice the names of the conspirators. They NEVER go away of their own malignant volition, even after generations.
    I’ve cited this guy before, Jeffrey Gundlach, not a household name, but neither were the infamous Michael Milken or the legitimate William Gross of PIMCO before they became the kings of fixed income in the credit markets:
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-u-s-could-split-up-gundlach-says-heres-how-hed-invest-for-that-11604352902
    He expects Trump and Republicans to win today (praying men and women hope he’s wrong, but he’s a congenitally conservative betting man with untold billions behind him; it’s America, where the prayers of the decent remain in the unheard queue, but the cash is collected at the 24-hour betting window, always open for business and profitable regardless of the suffering) it’s his prediction, from his high position, of IMMINENT revolution and the breakup of America in the interview that places whatever crazed statements by nobody me regarding what’s coming and who it is coming to in brighter relief.
    Back to lurking.
    Good luck, friends.
    I can’t look.

  18. https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/11/02/a-few-final-words-from-president-lincoln/
    Referenced therein:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1632203588/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Notice the names of the conspirators. They NEVER go away of their own malignant volition, even after generations.
    I’ve cited this guy before, Jeffrey Gundlach, not a household name, but neither were the infamous Michael Milken or the legitimate William Gross of PIMCO before they became the kings of fixed income in the credit markets:
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-u-s-could-split-up-gundlach-says-heres-how-hed-invest-for-that-11604352902
    He expects Trump and Republicans to win today (praying men and women hope he’s wrong, but he’s a congenitally conservative betting man with untold billions behind him; it’s America, where the prayers of the decent remain in the unheard queue, but the cash is collected at the 24-hour betting window, always open for business and profitable regardless of the suffering) it’s his prediction, from his high position, of IMMINENT revolution and the breakup of America in the interview that places whatever crazed statements by nobody me regarding what’s coming and who it is coming to in brighter relief.
    Back to lurking.
    Good luck, friends.
    I can’t look.

  23. Dixville Notch went 5-0 for Biden.
    In 2016 it wasn’t so uniform: Hillary Clinton 4, Donald Trump 2, Gary Johnson 1 — and a single write-in surprise: Mitt Romney.
    I wonder where the other three voters went. Abstaining? Off to greener pastures? Caught by COVID? As to the latter, I hope not.

  24. Dixville Notch went 5-0 for Biden.
    In 2016 it wasn’t so uniform: Hillary Clinton 4, Donald Trump 2, Gary Johnson 1 — and a single write-in surprise: Mitt Romney.
    I wonder where the other three voters went. Abstaining? Off to greener pastures? Caught by COVID? As to the latter, I hope not.

  25. Report from the front:
    As of yesterday 65% of registered voters in my county had voted.
    At my polling station, the line maxed out at about 25 people at around 7:20 this morning. By 9 we were down to just a couple folks in line now and then. This with our room limited to 10 people . . . 5 of whom were poll workers. And a 5 sheet (both sides) ballot, thanks to 6 pages of propositions.
    Some hassles figuring out the right ballot type (we have a dozen, depending on local races) for a couple newly registered folks. But no big issues. And no problem individuals per se. Here’s hoping it stays that way.

  26. Report from the front:
    As of yesterday 65% of registered voters in my county had voted.
    At my polling station, the line maxed out at about 25 people at around 7:20 this morning. By 9 we were down to just a couple folks in line now and then. This with our room limited to 10 people . . . 5 of whom were poll workers. And a 5 sheet (both sides) ballot, thanks to 6 pages of propositions.
    Some hassles figuring out the right ballot type (we have a dozen, depending on local races) for a couple newly registered folks. But no big issues. And no problem individuals per se. Here’s hoping it stays that way.

  31. TV is reporting light turnout in the Raleigh area, too.
    my guess: people simply voted early this time. turnout will be only slightly higher than 2016.

  32. TV is reporting light turnout in the Raleigh area, too.
    my guess: people simply voted early this time. turnout will be only slightly higher than 2016.

  35. Without meaning to introduce additional election day stress, I note that the WaPo election site has DJT sprinting to an early lead over Biden:
    16 votes to 10.
    Not electoral votes, just votes.
    All 26 votes appear to have come from NH (so, Dixville Notch plus its suburbs?) which the Post, in an example of obvious fake news, reports as having “no clear leader” at this point.
    Don’t let DJT see it, he’ll declare victory.

  36. Without meaning to introduce additional election day stress, I note that the WaPo election site has DJT sprinting to an early lead over Biden:
    16 votes to 10.
    Not electoral votes, just votes.
    All 26 votes appear to have come from NH (so, Dixville Notch plus its suburbs?) which the Post, in an example of obvious fake news, reports as having “no clear leader” at this point.
    Don’t let DJT see it, he’ll declare victory.

  39. @bobbyp: A few years ago it was Nate Silver….
    @russell: the suburbs of Dixville Notch…are they kinda like Brigadoon? šŸ˜‰

  40. @bobbyp: A few years ago it was Nate Silver….
    @russell: the suburbs of Dixville Notch…are they kinda like Brigadoon? šŸ˜‰

  41. the suburbs of Dixville Notch…are they kinda like Brigadoon?
    things do get a bit sparse when you get north of Berlin…

  42. the suburbs of Dixville Notch…are they kinda like Brigadoon?
    things do get a bit sparse when you get north of Berlin…

  49. That the election is even close should be enough to give the US failing grades even if the Orange One gets booted. And the biggest incumbent digestive rear exits already got reelected. And all-a-bummer (as expected) went back to white, right and crazy the moment Moore was not on the ballot (and even then it was too close for sane people). So, a switch in the senate looks qute unlikely and I won’t put any bets on the WH race. So, either a-block-alypse now (and the House going South in 2 years to punish the Dems for not achieving anything) or a-blob-alypse orange ongoing.
    Time for the other nuclear powers to draw lots on who will be the one to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure.

  50. That the election is even close should be enough to give the US failing grades even if the Orange One gets booted. And the biggest incumbent digestive rear exits already got reelected. And all-a-bummer (as expected) went back to white, right and crazy the moment Moore was not on the ballot (and even then it was too close for sane people). So, a switch in the senate looks qute unlikely and I won’t put any bets on the WH race. So, either a-block-alypse now (and the House going South in 2 years to punish the Dems for not achieving anything) or a-blob-alypse orange ongoing.
    Time for the other nuclear powers to draw lots on who will be the one to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure.

  55. Thank you, cleek.
    I suggest that we wait until all the votes are counted, because we can’t have a strategy until we know the details. Maybe a chicken here, a chicken there.

  56. Thank you, cleek.
    I suggest that we wait until all the votes are counted, because we can’t have a strategy until we know the details. Maybe a chicken here, a chicken there.

  57. The summing up of death-cult conservative America as a piece of dog shit to scrape off the world’s shoe:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-north-dakota-republican-died-of-covid-19-in-october-he-still-won-his-election/ar-BB1aGzi2?ocid=uxbndlbing
    See y’all in the third definition of the gloaming:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=gloaming+definition&atb=v204-1&ia=definition
    Be well and stay safe. Don’t let a Republican breathe within a mile of you.
    It’s how they kill if you are out of their gunshot and 4×4 range.

  58. The summing up of death-cult conservative America as a piece of dog shit to scrape off the world’s shoe:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-north-dakota-republican-died-of-covid-19-in-october-he-still-won-his-election/ar-BB1aGzi2?ocid=uxbndlbing
    See y’all in the third definition of the gloaming:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=gloaming+definition&atb=v204-1&ia=definition
    Be well and stay safe. Don’t let a Republican breathe within a mile of you.
    It’s how they kill if you are out of their gunshot and 4×4 range.

  59. My initial reaction aside from fear and loathingā€” four years and people still vote for this assholeā€”is that there must be something wrong with how pollsters go about their business. Yeah, probably within the margin of error, but I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.

  60. My initial reaction aside from fear and loathingā€” four years and people still vote for this assholeā€”is that there must be something wrong with how pollsters go about their business. Yeah, probably within the margin of error, but I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.

  61. It’s a squeaker. I’m not really sure what to say about it other than that.

    North Dakota Republican died of covid-19 in October. He still won his election.

    Are they gonna make him take his seat?

  62. It’s a squeaker. I’m not really sure what to say about it other than that.

    North Dakota Republican died of covid-19 in October. He still won his election.

    Are they gonna make him take his seat?

  63. Can’t remember being still alive to be a legal requirement for a representative or senator.
    The important part is the certificate of life birth (rebirth does not yet count but SCOTUS will come to that later).

  64. Can’t remember being still alive to be a legal requirement for a representative or senator.
    The important part is the certificate of life birth (rebirth does not yet count but SCOTUS will come to that later).

  65. Good results from my point of view:
    ā€¢ All nine drug decriminalization or legalization measures on state ballots passed.
    ā€¢ Proposition 22 in California passed.
    ā€¢ Rent control in California failed.
    ā€¢ Affirmative action in school admissions in California failed.
    ā€¢ Abortion banning measure in Colorado failed.
    ā€¢ Legalized gambling in Nebraska passed.

  66. Good results from my point of view:
    ā€¢ All nine drug decriminalization or legalization measures on state ballots passed.
    ā€¢ Proposition 22 in California passed.
    ā€¢ Rent control in California failed.
    ā€¢ Affirmative action in school admissions in California failed.
    ā€¢ Abortion banning measure in Colorado failed.
    ā€¢ Legalized gambling in Nebraska passed.

  67. Are they gonna make him take his seat?
    All things considered, he’d probably do less damage than any of his likeliest replacements.

  68. Are they gonna make him take his seat?
    All things considered, he’d probably do less damage than any of his likeliest replacements.

  69. Hmmm, that whole thing didn’t quite go as planned…
    For those determined to find a sliver lining of some kind, consider this. If Trump ends up losing, he seems entirely likely to try to destroy the country in revenge. (How successful he’d be is another story. But he’d try.) However, as long as he thinks he might win, he’ll hold off. And the closer we can get to Inauguration Day before he starts to trash the place the better.
    Hey, it’s not much. But I’m grasping at straws here.

  70. Hmmm, that whole thing didn’t quite go as planned…
    For those determined to find a sliver lining of some kind, consider this. If Trump ends up losing, he seems entirely likely to try to destroy the country in revenge. (How successful he’d be is another story. But he’d try.) However, as long as he thinks he might win, he’ll hold off. And the closer we can get to Inauguration Day before he starts to trash the place the better.
    Hey, it’s not much. But I’m grasping at straws here.

  71. As with the pre-born, his votes in the legislature will count twice.
    If one is positioning oneself for the American future, being either not born yet or dead is the ticket.
    Everyone in between, trudging through their actual lives rounded by a sleep, and their pre-existing conditions, is a fucking gig worker on the bubble who had better have done something lately, probably with their mouths, for a trump conservative with a gun.

  72. As with the pre-born, his votes in the legislature will count twice.
    If one is positioning oneself for the American future, being either not born yet or dead is the ticket.
    Everyone in between, trudging through their actual lives rounded by a sleep, and their pre-existing conditions, is a fucking gig worker on the bubble who had better have done something lately, probably with their mouths, for a trump conservative with a gun.

  73. I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.
    seems like it.
    there’s also too much emphasis on meaningless national polls, which happens because there is insufficiently-frequent polling in the handful of states that actually decide elections. on top of that, pollsters clearly have no idea who is actually going to vote and their models are failing.
    also, polling isn’t voting.

  74. I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.
    seems like it.
    there’s also too much emphasis on meaningless national polls, which happens because there is insufficiently-frequent polling in the handful of states that actually decide elections. on top of that, pollsters clearly have no idea who is actually going to vote and their models are failing.
    also, polling isn’t voting.

  75. I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.
    seems like it.
    From a piece in a magazine no one here but me reads:
    “Two: The polling was largely wrong. Robert Cahaly of Trafalgar is now a superstar and deserves to be. The entire polling industry ā€” to the extent the polling industry survives this ā€” must now grapple with the ramifications of this comment from Cahaly in his interview with Rich:
    One is the number of questions on its surveys. ā€œI donā€™t believe in long questionnaires,ā€ Cahaly says. ā€œI think when youā€™re calling up Mom or Dad on a school night, and theyā€™re trying to get the kids dinner and get them to bed, and that phone rings at seven oā€™clock ā€” and theyā€™re supposed to stop what theyā€™re doing and take a 25- to 30-question poll? No way.ā€
    Why does that matter? ā€œYou end up disproportionately representing the people who will like to talk about politics, which is going to skew toward the very, very conservative and the very, very liberal and the very, very bored, ā€œCahaly explains. ā€œAnd the kind of people that win elections are the people in the middle. So I think they miss people in the middle when they do things that way.ā€”
    Like everyone else, I expected voters to blow DT away. Looks like he’s going to eke it out but that the R’s will hold the senate. Gridlock isn’t the worst that can happen from my viewpoint. Also, the House didn’t exactly slam the shit out of R’s, and since those are actual votes and not an electoral college, I’d say the D’s are very lucky Sanders or Warren didn’t get the nomination.
    Other things:
    1. Except for Fox, the media was all in for JB up to and including intentionally and openly refusing to look at evidence of corruption. After all of the hooey that made it into the mainstream press without any fact checking during the Kavanaugh and Barrett hearings, claims of ‘lack of substantiation’ don’t hold up. IOW: the appearance of media stacking the deck probably isn’t a good look unless you’re already drinking the koolaid.
    2. DT–right or wrong, most people don’t take his BS seriously. Dem heads exploding when he denounced the rioting in Portland and elsewhere was not a great look ether. He scored points and the Dems committed large, unforced errors. Actually, they were forced errors, forced by the Nous’ and LJ’s on the far left. Keep it up. Don’t change a thing.
    3. Court packing, eliminating the EC and eliminating the Senate, but making PR and DC states–all “good moves”. There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries–denouncing DT for violating norms while calling for the elimination of every rule that prevents them from winning.
    4. Next time be even more aggressively celebratory of abortion, taking guns away from law abiding citizens and raising taxes. These are key issues for undecided, middle of the road Americans.
    5. Next to last, never stop telling people they and the country they love are fundamentally and irredeemably racist. People love that. So, don’t let up.
    6. Finally, dismiss, deride and sneer at anyone who points out the clear Marxist strain at the hard left base of the Democratic Party. Marxism, which doesn’t exist in any part of the Dem Party, is actually kinda cool and the cool people know that. That Sanders said he was a Socialist but really didn’t know that he wasn’t makes a lot of sense too. The Dems weren’t far enough left in 2016, they still didn’t move far enough left in 2020 but maybe they’ll get it right in 2024 and take over the country.
    Later.

  76. I wonder if there is some systematic error involved too.
    seems like it.
    From a piece in a magazine no one here but me reads:
    “Two: The polling was largely wrong. Robert Cahaly of Trafalgar is now a superstar and deserves to be. The entire polling industry ā€” to the extent the polling industry survives this ā€” must now grapple with the ramifications of this comment from Cahaly in his interview with Rich:
    One is the number of questions on its surveys. ā€œI donā€™t believe in long questionnaires,ā€ Cahaly says. ā€œI think when youā€™re calling up Mom or Dad on a school night, and theyā€™re trying to get the kids dinner and get them to bed, and that phone rings at seven oā€™clock ā€” and theyā€™re supposed to stop what theyā€™re doing and take a 25- to 30-question poll? No way.ā€
    Why does that matter? ā€œYou end up disproportionately representing the people who will like to talk about politics, which is going to skew toward the very, very conservative and the very, very liberal and the very, very bored, ā€œCahaly explains. ā€œAnd the kind of people that win elections are the people in the middle. So I think they miss people in the middle when they do things that way.ā€”
    Like everyone else, I expected voters to blow DT away. Looks like he’s going to eke it out but that the R’s will hold the senate. Gridlock isn’t the worst that can happen from my viewpoint. Also, the House didn’t exactly slam the shit out of R’s, and since those are actual votes and not an electoral college, I’d say the D’s are very lucky Sanders or Warren didn’t get the nomination.
    Other things:
    1. Except for Fox, the media was all in for JB up to and including intentionally and openly refusing to look at evidence of corruption. After all of the hooey that made it into the mainstream press without any fact checking during the Kavanaugh and Barrett hearings, claims of ‘lack of substantiation’ don’t hold up. IOW: the appearance of media stacking the deck probably isn’t a good look unless you’re already drinking the koolaid.
    2. DT–right or wrong, most people don’t take his BS seriously. Dem heads exploding when he denounced the rioting in Portland and elsewhere was not a great look ether. He scored points and the Dems committed large, unforced errors. Actually, they were forced errors, forced by the Nous’ and LJ’s on the far left. Keep it up. Don’t change a thing.
    3. Court packing, eliminating the EC and eliminating the Senate, but making PR and DC states–all “good moves”. There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries–denouncing DT for violating norms while calling for the elimination of every rule that prevents them from winning.
    4. Next time be even more aggressively celebratory of abortion, taking guns away from law abiding citizens and raising taxes. These are key issues for undecided, middle of the road Americans.
    5. Next to last, never stop telling people they and the country they love are fundamentally and irredeemably racist. People love that. So, don’t let up.
    6. Finally, dismiss, deride and sneer at anyone who points out the clear Marxist strain at the hard left base of the Democratic Party. Marxism, which doesn’t exist in any part of the Dem Party, is actually kinda cool and the cool people know that. That Sanders said he was a Socialist but really didn’t know that he wasn’t makes a lot of sense too. The Dems weren’t far enough left in 2016, they still didn’t move far enough left in 2020 but maybe they’ll get it right in 2024 and take over the country.
    Later.

  79. A small correction here:
    There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries-
    The rules now are not the same rules written 250 years ago. Some are the same, some have been tweaked, some have been completely replaced.
    Changing the rules is part of the deal in a self-governing polity.
    And to the degree that “the rules” are norms, rather than law, “breaking the rules” is exactly what people are responding to when they talk about increasing the number of SCOTUS seats, etc.
    As always, thanks for the lecture on what People Like Us should say and how we should behave.
    Later.

  80. A small correction here:
    There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries-
    The rules now are not the same rules written 250 years ago. Some are the same, some have been tweaked, some have been completely replaced.
    Changing the rules is part of the deal in a self-governing polity.
    And to the degree that “the rules” are norms, rather than law, “breaking the rules” is exactly what people are responding to when they talk about increasing the number of SCOTUS seats, etc.
    As always, thanks for the lecture on what People Like Us should say and how we should behave.
    Later.

  81. Actually, they were forced errors, forced by the Nous’ and LJ’s on the far left.
    If nous and lj are “far left”, what was bob mcmanus?
    Keep it up. Don’t change a thing.
    Other than sarcasm, and owning the libz, could you clarify if this (DJT’s) is actually an America you like and wish to live in?

  82. Actually, they were forced errors, forced by the Nous’ and LJ’s on the far left.
    If nous and lj are “far left”, what was bob mcmanus?
    Keep it up. Don’t change a thing.
    Other than sarcasm, and owning the libz, could you clarify if this (DJT’s) is actually an America you like and wish to live in?

  83. the clear Marxist strain at the hard left base of the Democratic Party
    Since this seems to apply to nous and lj, if it weren’t for the fact that this absurd notion was clearly believed by so much of the US population, this description would belong in a Monty Python sketch. The fact that McKinney, and so many Rs, believe it, does unfortunately show that the Dems have a long way to go to counter this nonsense. We know since the C4 investigation that the Cuban Americans in Florida, targeted by info from Cambridge Analytica, were bombarded by ads saying Biden was a socialist and in hock to communists. A way has to be found to deal with this rubbish.

  84. the clear Marxist strain at the hard left base of the Democratic Party
    Since this seems to apply to nous and lj, if it weren’t for the fact that this absurd notion was clearly believed by so much of the US population, this description would belong in a Monty Python sketch. The fact that McKinney, and so many Rs, believe it, does unfortunately show that the Dems have a long way to go to counter this nonsense. We know since the C4 investigation that the Cuban Americans in Florida, targeted by info from Cambridge Analytica, were bombarded by ads saying Biden was a socialist and in hock to communists. A way has to be found to deal with this rubbish.

  85. the Dems have a long way to go to counter this nonsense.
    I’m kind of through with it being the (D)’s job to persuade people that they aren’t the Red Vanguard.
    Somebody is propagating that noise. They are responsible.
    Somebody is eating that stuff up like its apple pie with whipped cream on top. They are responsible.
    People have agency, and are responsible for what they listen to, expose themselves to, embrace, and believe. I’ve been talking to conservatives for almost 20 years now, I don’t see that there is one damned thing (D)’s can do or say that will get them to put aside the BS.
    They want to believe it, so they do.

  86. the Dems have a long way to go to counter this nonsense.
    I’m kind of through with it being the (D)’s job to persuade people that they aren’t the Red Vanguard.
    Somebody is propagating that noise. They are responsible.
    Somebody is eating that stuff up like its apple pie with whipped cream on top. They are responsible.
    People have agency, and are responsible for what they listen to, expose themselves to, embrace, and believe. I’ve been talking to conservatives for almost 20 years now, I don’t see that there is one damned thing (D)’s can do or say that will get them to put aside the BS.
    They want to believe it, so they do.

  87. There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries
    You mean like insisting that there is something wrong with it taking a day or two to count all the legally and regularly cast ballots. Even though we have taken that long (or longer) for at least all my lifetime. Not to mention how long it took before that.

  88. There is nothing people like more than people who lose by rules that apply equally to everyone–and have for over 2 centuries
    You mean like insisting that there is something wrong with it taking a day or two to count all the legally and regularly cast ballots. Even though we have taken that long (or longer) for at least all my lifetime. Not to mention how long it took before that.

  89. the hard left base of the Democratic Party
    what makes this awesome is that it illustrates just how little the Republicans who parrot this know about actual Democrats, how little they know about the left in general, and that they have no clue what a ‘hard’ left looks like.
    their entire political world is a fantasy of their own creation.
    they don’t know fuck about shit but boy do they want to lecture us about it.

  90. the hard left base of the Democratic Party
    what makes this awesome is that it illustrates just how little the Republicans who parrot this know about actual Democrats, how little they know about the left in general, and that they have no clue what a ‘hard’ left looks like.
    their entire political world is a fantasy of their own creation.
    they don’t know fuck about shit but boy do they want to lecture us about it.

  91. Could you Marxists around here please read a little Marx first?
    To catch up to the horsefeathers you are being accused of molting.
    Conservatives may stick with Brietbart, FOX, and Stephen Miller’s musings on Lebensraum via QAnon channels.
    “most people don’t take his (Trump’s) BS seriously.”
    Then most people in this deeply unserious country wear Neville Chamberlain’s underlinens for comfort, not support.
    Yes, and Karl Marx’s words didn’t see the light of day outside the British Library, right?
    I quit.

  92. Could you Marxists around here please read a little Marx first?
    To catch up to the horsefeathers you are being accused of molting.
    Conservatives may stick with Brietbart, FOX, and Stephen Miller’s musings on Lebensraum via QAnon channels.
    “most people don’t take his (Trump’s) BS seriously.”
    Then most people in this deeply unserious country wear Neville Chamberlain’s underlinens for comfort, not support.
    Yes, and Karl Marx’s words didn’t see the light of day outside the British Library, right?
    I quit.

  93. how little they know about the left in general, and that they have no clue what a ‘hard’ left looks like
    Exactly. From a European (or even British/English) point of view, this is exactly the point.
    I’m kind of through with it being the (D)’s job to persuade people that they aren’t the Red Vanguard.
    I completely understand, and sympathise with this russell. I just don’t understand how the Republicans/Trumpistas can ever be got out of power, unless this kind of absurd misinformation is dispelled. In which case, reasonable people like you all will either have to live in a non-democratic international gangster state, or move to Canada.

  94. how little they know about the left in general, and that they have no clue what a ‘hard’ left looks like
    Exactly. From a European (or even British/English) point of view, this is exactly the point.
    I’m kind of through with it being the (D)’s job to persuade people that they aren’t the Red Vanguard.
    I completely understand, and sympathise with this russell. I just don’t understand how the Republicans/Trumpistas can ever be got out of power, unless this kind of absurd misinformation is dispelled. In which case, reasonable people like you all will either have to live in a non-democratic international gangster state, or move to Canada.

  97. It would take a hell of a lot more than DJT to compel me to move from the US.
    I could be persuaded to move someplace warm, especially if the food was good and there was an interesting music scene. Barcelona? Bologna? Recife? Havana?
    It would take a lot, my wife and I are pretty plugged in to a variety of things here where we are.
    But I’ll be damned if I’ll move just to get away from loud orange people.

  98. It would take a hell of a lot more than DJT to compel me to move from the US.
    I could be persuaded to move someplace warm, especially if the food was good and there was an interesting music scene. Barcelona? Bologna? Recife? Havana?
    It would take a lot, my wife and I are pretty plugged in to a variety of things here where we are.
    But I’ll be damned if I’ll move just to get away from loud orange people.

  99. “Exactly. From a European (or even British/English) point of view, this is exactly the point.”
    Hardly any Americans have the nearest conception of living between the snapping jaws of true fascism on the so-called Right and true, thuggish Soviet-style totalitarianism on the so-called Left that existed in Europe during the first half of the 20th Century.
    We’re innocent ideological cosplayers in America by comparison …. most of the time.
    I could move away, but when a train wreck is about to happen, I have a weird urge to move closer.
    Contact this guy for Bologna:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/03/business/italy-us-citizenship/index.html

  100. “Exactly. From a European (or even British/English) point of view, this is exactly the point.”
    Hardly any Americans have the nearest conception of living between the snapping jaws of true fascism on the so-called Right and true, thuggish Soviet-style totalitarianism on the so-called Left that existed in Europe during the first half of the 20th Century.
    We’re innocent ideological cosplayers in America by comparison …. most of the time.
    I could move away, but when a train wreck is about to happen, I have a weird urge to move closer.
    Contact this guy for Bologna:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/03/business/italy-us-citizenship/index.html

  101. Trump asks for recount in MI?
    wait, i thought counting votes after election day was un-American or something?
    the people demand closure!

  102. Trump asks for recount in MI?
    wait, i thought counting votes after election day was un-American or something?
    the people demand closure!

  103. it’s not their country, no matter how much they say it is.
    ***
    But I’ll be damned if I’ll move just to get away from loud orange people.
    Again, totally understandable, and in fact praiseworthy (not that either of you are angling for praise). But if they succeed in packing all the courts with (often incompetent) ideologues without integrity, and their foreign policy becomes just another lawless nuclear bully’s cudgel, and they ignore climate science, and they entrench shameless gerrymandering in order to lock themselves into power forever, etc etc etc ad nauseam, how soon will this be a country you still want anything to do with?
    The presidency is still in play, so maybe I am being premature, but how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him? I have had to take two Ubers today (so outside my liberal bubble – although saying that, I have rightwing friends who agree with me on Trump), and FWIW both drivers (immigrants) were astonished and disbelieving about the US election. It is, to the rest of the world, incomprehensible.

  104. it’s not their country, no matter how much they say it is.
    ***
    But I’ll be damned if I’ll move just to get away from loud orange people.
    Again, totally understandable, and in fact praiseworthy (not that either of you are angling for praise). But if they succeed in packing all the courts with (often incompetent) ideologues without integrity, and their foreign policy becomes just another lawless nuclear bully’s cudgel, and they ignore climate science, and they entrench shameless gerrymandering in order to lock themselves into power forever, etc etc etc ad nauseam, how soon will this be a country you still want anything to do with?
    The presidency is still in play, so maybe I am being premature, but how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him? I have had to take two Ubers today (so outside my liberal bubble – although saying that, I have rightwing friends who agree with me on Trump), and FWIW both drivers (immigrants) were astonished and disbelieving about the US election. It is, to the rest of the world, incomprehensible.

  105. how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    the Trump they are told about by the people who keep the “conservative” thought bubble inflated is not the actual Trump. they think he’s doing all kinds of great and wonderful things, that his lies don’t matter because he’s lying in support of hating liberals, that news of his failures is ‘fake’. they live in a fantasy.

  106. how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    the Trump they are told about by the people who keep the “conservative” thought bubble inflated is not the actual Trump. they think he’s doing all kinds of great and wonderful things, that his lies don’t matter because he’s lying in support of hating liberals, that news of his failures is ‘fake’. they live in a fantasy.

  109. Keep in mind, GftNC, that McKinney is among the most reasonable of those “vast numbers of people” who are “still prepared to vote for him”.
    Oh, sure, McTX might pipe up to declare that he himself did not vote for He, Trump. But McTx doesn’t sound too chagrined that “vast numbers” did, does he?
    –TP

  110. Keep in mind, GftNC, that McKinney is among the most reasonable of those “vast numbers of people” who are “still prepared to vote for him”.
    Oh, sure, McTX might pipe up to declare that he himself did not vote for He, Trump. But McTx doesn’t sound too chagrined that “vast numbers” did, does he?
    –TP

  111. ….up to and including intentionally and openly refusing to look at evidence of corruption.
    Excuse me. What evidence? It seems to be MIA.
    A Biden presidency (most likely) coupled with a Dem House(for sure) and a R Senate (again, most likely) is a recipe for political disaster….but much better than a 2nd Trump term.
    they don’t know fuck about shit but boy do they want to lecture us about it.
    This is unambiguously true.

  112. ….up to and including intentionally and openly refusing to look at evidence of corruption.
    Excuse me. What evidence? It seems to be MIA.
    A Biden presidency (most likely) coupled with a Dem House(for sure) and a R Senate (again, most likely) is a recipe for political disaster….but much better than a 2nd Trump term.
    they don’t know fuck about shit but boy do they want to lecture us about it.
    This is unambiguously true.

  113. Gridlock isn’t the worst that can happen from my viewpoint.
    From your mouth to Tom Friedman’s lips. No, it isn’t “the worst”. Rethuglican control of all 3 branches is the worst. I’m thinking something like purgatory.

  114. Gridlock isn’t the worst that can happen from my viewpoint.
    From your mouth to Tom Friedman’s lips. No, it isn’t “the worst”. Rethuglican control of all 3 branches is the worst. I’m thinking something like purgatory.

  115. “vast numbers”….LOL.
    When all the dust settles, Trump is likely to be 7 million votes behind Biden. Vastness may be overrated.

  116. “vast numbers”….LOL.
    When all the dust settles, Trump is likely to be 7 million votes behind Biden. Vastness may be overrated.

  117. bobbyp, I sympathise with your point @ 02.16, but even then it will mean vast numbers taken in by an open grifter, crook and liar. cleek’s point @ 02.04 is the only (if still extraordinary) explanation: they live in a fantasy.

  118. bobbyp, I sympathise with your point @ 02.16, but even then it will mean vast numbers taken in by an open grifter, crook and liar. cleek’s point @ 02.04 is the only (if still extraordinary) explanation: they live in a fantasy.

  119. how soon will this be a country you still want anything to do with?
    It’s already a country I have mixed feelings about, and has been for most of my life.
    And, it’s my country of birth. I’m American, it’s kind of indelible.
    Whether I want anything to do with it or not, my life is entangled with this country. It would be, even if I moved elsewhere.
    Might as well stay and make the best of it. Whatever that amounts to.

  120. how soon will this be a country you still want anything to do with?
    It’s already a country I have mixed feelings about, and has been for most of my life.
    And, it’s my country of birth. I’m American, it’s kind of indelible.
    Whether I want anything to do with it or not, my life is entangled with this country. It would be, even if I moved elsewhere.
    Might as well stay and make the best of it. Whatever that amounts to.

  121. But McTx doesn’t sound too chagrined that “vast numbers” did, does he?
    as long as the Marxists lose, it’s all good, man.
    and all Dems are really Marxists at heart.
    it’s pretty amazing how that one lie keeps the GOP alive.

  122. But McTx doesn’t sound too chagrined that “vast numbers” did, does he?
    as long as the Marxists lose, it’s all good, man.
    and all Dems are really Marxists at heart.
    it’s pretty amazing how that one lie keeps the GOP alive.

  123. Meanwhile:
    Biden is up about 40K in MI, 20K in WI, and a very slender 8K in NV. Pretty solid lead in AZ, but he’s ahead by a thumbnail in the other states.
    It would crack me up if he won via the Trump style razor-thin margin in a couple of swing states. Especially if he won with exactly 270.
    So close, yet just out of reach, for our Mr Trump. Assuming things play out that way, which they might not.
    I try not to make too many meals of schadenfreude, but it’s hard to resist the occasional snack.
    We’ll see how it turns out.

  124. Meanwhile:
    Biden is up about 40K in MI, 20K in WI, and a very slender 8K in NV. Pretty solid lead in AZ, but he’s ahead by a thumbnail in the other states.
    It would crack me up if he won via the Trump style razor-thin margin in a couple of swing states. Especially if he won with exactly 270.
    So close, yet just out of reach, for our Mr Trump. Assuming things play out that way, which they might not.
    I try not to make too many meals of schadenfreude, but it’s hard to resist the occasional snack.
    We’ll see how it turns out.

  127. how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    As cleek notes, they are living in an information (fantasy) bubble where they think that Trump actually did all the stuff he promised in 2016. Meanwhile in the real world….

  128. how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    As cleek notes, they are living in an information (fantasy) bubble where they think that Trump actually did all the stuff he promised in 2016. Meanwhile in the real world….

  129. As we learned from the regime of atheist Muslim Marxist Barack Obama and his wife who is secretly a man, Marxism and intersectionality go hand in hand.

  130. As we learned from the regime of atheist Muslim Marxist Barack Obama and his wife who is secretly a man, Marxism and intersectionality go hand in hand.

  131. It would crack me up if he won via the Trump style razor-thin margin in a couple of swing states. Especially if he won with exactly 270.
    I would far, far rather he won by over 270, and then got a couple of states by razor thin margins in addition. Especially if he managed to drag a couple of marginal Senate candidates along with him.

  132. It would crack me up if he won via the Trump style razor-thin margin in a couple of swing states. Especially if he won with exactly 270.
    I would far, far rather he won by over 270, and then got a couple of states by razor thin margins in addition. Especially if he managed to drag a couple of marginal Senate candidates along with him.

  133. the regime of atheist Muslim Marxist Barack Obama
    Don’t forget “tyrant”. Looking at the current popular vote for Trump, you’ve got to laugh.
    It’s already a country I have mixed feelings about, and has been for most of my life.
    And, it’s my country of birth. I’m American, it’s kind of indelible.
    I do get this. I may have been influenced by the fact that my parents, both born South African, left SA in their 40s after Verwoerd became PM in 1958, only partly because (as a result of despairing family conversations) my 11 year old sister offered to assassinate him. And my beloved father, a very keen sportsman who had represented his country in his 20s, put his Springbok blazer away, and supported England thereafter, until Mandela was President and SA was playing in the Rugby World Cup, whereupon he wore it to watch with joy and drank champagne to celebrate their victory. So, in spite of everything, they stayed South African in their hearts.
    But apartheid was a very stark issue, about which there was absolutely no moral doubt, and in those days (as they said to us) “you either stay and fight, or you get out”. And they were in their 40s, and could (and did) have time to make a full, successful life elsewhere. They might have stayed and fought. Friends who did were killed or imprisoned. When I have met their children, I have been grateful for my parents’ choice, which was largely made because of us.
    We are not our parents, and I do not judge. But by God, these are weird fucking times.

  134. the regime of atheist Muslim Marxist Barack Obama
    Don’t forget “tyrant”. Looking at the current popular vote for Trump, you’ve got to laugh.
    It’s already a country I have mixed feelings about, and has been for most of my life.
    And, it’s my country of birth. I’m American, it’s kind of indelible.
    I do get this. I may have been influenced by the fact that my parents, both born South African, left SA in their 40s after Verwoerd became PM in 1958, only partly because (as a result of despairing family conversations) my 11 year old sister offered to assassinate him. And my beloved father, a very keen sportsman who had represented his country in his 20s, put his Springbok blazer away, and supported England thereafter, until Mandela was President and SA was playing in the Rugby World Cup, whereupon he wore it to watch with joy and drank champagne to celebrate their victory. So, in spite of everything, they stayed South African in their hearts.
    But apartheid was a very stark issue, about which there was absolutely no moral doubt, and in those days (as they said to us) “you either stay and fight, or you get out”. And they were in their 40s, and could (and did) have time to make a full, successful life elsewhere. They might have stayed and fought. Friends who did were killed or imprisoned. When I have met their children, I have been grateful for my parents’ choice, which was largely made because of us.
    We are not our parents, and I do not judge. But by God, these are weird fucking times.

  135. Friends who did were killed or imprisoned.
    We certainly all have choices to make.
    Other countries have problems too, and there’s no guarantee that any country will remain stable, peaceful, and democratic. The US has a long, mixed and rich history. I hope we get through this difficult time, and come to a more democratic, egalitarian, respectful and tolerant place. I’ve always been a Democrat because during my lifetime, that’s what the Democratic party has stood for (as well as regulated market capitalism), and very much still does. Republicans have (in my voting lifetime) flirted with fascism, intolerance and racial hatred.
    I’m not willingly giving the country to them. If I have to “stand my ground” in the face of their nastiness, I’ll do that, and if we have to oppose them state by state, Democrats can become the party of states’ rights. Whatever it takes. I’m not very physically brave, but I’ll try to do what I can.

  136. Friends who did were killed or imprisoned.
    We certainly all have choices to make.
    Other countries have problems too, and there’s no guarantee that any country will remain stable, peaceful, and democratic. The US has a long, mixed and rich history. I hope we get through this difficult time, and come to a more democratic, egalitarian, respectful and tolerant place. I’ve always been a Democrat because during my lifetime, that’s what the Democratic party has stood for (as well as regulated market capitalism), and very much still does. Republicans have (in my voting lifetime) flirted with fascism, intolerance and racial hatred.
    I’m not willingly giving the country to them. If I have to “stand my ground” in the face of their nastiness, I’ll do that, and if we have to oppose them state by state, Democrats can become the party of states’ rights. Whatever it takes. I’m not very physically brave, but I’ll try to do what I can.

  137. And lo, Biden speaks and reminds us what people sound like when they sound presidential. What a corrupt Marxist!
    FFS.

  138. And lo, Biden speaks and reminds us what people sound like when they sound presidential. What a corrupt Marxist!
    FFS.

  141. hilzoy quotes a (paywalled) piece from TPM saying:
    We canā€™t ignore the fact that close to half the country saw the civic carnage of the last twelve months and asked for more.
    This rather expresses what everybody else in the world (I speak for them, you know) has been marvelling at.

  142. hilzoy quotes a (paywalled) piece from TPM saying:
    We canā€™t ignore the fact that close to half the country saw the civic carnage of the last twelve months and asked for more.
    This rather expresses what everybody else in the world (I speak for them, you know) has been marvelling at.

  145. look at them Dems, trying to change the rules:

    A group of protesters converged Wednesday afternoon on a facility in Detroit where election administrators are counting absentee ballots, demanding to watch the process alongside credentialed challengers who have been monitoring the tabulation of votes.
    Videos posted by local media showed dozens of protesters streaming into the TCF Center in the cityā€™s downtown. Some could be heard banging on windows, chanting ā€œstop the count,ā€ while others tried to force their way into the ballot counting area, according to a live stream posted by the Detroit Free Press. Outside the center, another group of demonstrators chanted, ā€œcount every vote.ā€
    Shortly afterward, security officers shut the doors to the room where officials were tallying votes, barring any more people from entering, the Free Press reported. Guards could be seen in social media videos blocking the entrance, while election workers inside partially covered the windows with white posters.
    The chair of Michiganā€™s Republican Party called the protesters ā€œpoll challengers,ā€ though it wasnā€™t immediately clear if anyone from the group was credentialed for that purpose. More than 130 credentialed poll challengers from both parties have been inside watching the ballot counting all day.

    someone fetch McTx a pillow to faint on.

  146. look at them Dems, trying to change the rules:

    A group of protesters converged Wednesday afternoon on a facility in Detroit where election administrators are counting absentee ballots, demanding to watch the process alongside credentialed challengers who have been monitoring the tabulation of votes.
    Videos posted by local media showed dozens of protesters streaming into the TCF Center in the cityā€™s downtown. Some could be heard banging on windows, chanting ā€œstop the count,ā€ while others tried to force their way into the ballot counting area, according to a live stream posted by the Detroit Free Press. Outside the center, another group of demonstrators chanted, ā€œcount every vote.ā€
    Shortly afterward, security officers shut the doors to the room where officials were tallying votes, barring any more people from entering, the Free Press reported. Guards could be seen in social media videos blocking the entrance, while election workers inside partially covered the windows with white posters.
    The chair of Michiganā€™s Republican Party called the protesters ā€œpoll challengers,ā€ though it wasnā€™t immediately clear if anyone from the group was credentialed for that purpose. More than 130 credentialed poll challengers from both parties have been inside watching the ballot counting all day.

    someone fetch McTx a pillow to faint on.

  149. oh the rules! when will those Dems ever stop breaking The Rules!?!?!?!

    We have claimed, for Electoral Vote purposes, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (which wonā€™t allow legal observers) the State of Georgia, and the State of North Carolina, each one of which has a BIG Trump lead. Additionally, we hereby claim the State of Michigan if, in fact…

    Donald Marxist Democrat Trump
    “claiming” states? when did that become a Rule ?
    someone fetch McTx another pillow to faint on.

  150. oh the rules! when will those Dems ever stop breaking The Rules!?!?!?!

    We have claimed, for Electoral Vote purposes, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (which wonā€™t allow legal observers) the State of Georgia, and the State of North Carolina, each one of which has a BIG Trump lead. Additionally, we hereby claim the State of Michigan if, in fact…

    Donald Marxist Democrat Trump
    “claiming” states? when did that become a Rule ?
    someone fetch McTx another pillow to faint on.

  151. seriously, though: NV is too close for comfort, given that Biden has a margin of 0 EC votes right now.
    i won’t be surprised if The God Hero Of Republican Idiocy actually wins it.

  152. seriously, though: NV is too close for comfort, given that Biden has a margin of 0 EC votes right now.
    i won’t be surprised if The God Hero Of Republican Idiocy actually wins it.

  153. Ah, Marina Hyde. As novakant recently remarked, and I paraphrase, she is a light in dark times:
    With the future and democratic reputation of the American republic hanging in the balance, this is not an occasion for bombast. Rather it is time to reach humbly in the darkness, seeking only to summon such measured words as convey the intense dignity of this moment. In short, I think we all feel the hand of history on our pussies.
    Donald Trump, Americaā€™s howling id, has not lost this election. Then again, Joe Biden has not won it. Shortly before 6am UK time, Biden addressed a rally ā€“ never a better time for one, mate ā€“ and told the Delaware crowd he was ā€œoptimisticā€. In split-screen Trump addressed his Twitter retinue, and told them of ā€œa big WINā€, adding ā€œthey are trying to STEAL the election ā€¦ votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed.ā€ Expect him to invade Pole-land in the coming days.
    Still, whatever happens now, no one can argue that a result this close was a repudiation of his way of doing business, so anyone expecting the gibberingly loyal Republican party to tack away from its current psychiatric space for the next couple of decades ought probably to get used to disappointment.
    Shortly after 7am UK time, Trump addressed the nation with quasi-dictatorial fanfare, falsely claiming victory as well as electoral fraud, and seeking to disenfranchise voters in undeclared states. This at least had been predicted. There have long been signs that Trump would not be able to handle even potentially unfavourable election results. After all, just look how he handled male pattern baldness. Contrary to what a lot of people said over the past four years, Trump did eventually manage to build something described as an ā€œunscalableā€ fence. Unfortunately, he only did it this week, and it now surrounds the White House.
    And so on.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/ok-america-so-what-the-hell-happens-now

  154. Ah, Marina Hyde. As novakant recently remarked, and I paraphrase, she is a light in dark times:
    With the future and democratic reputation of the American republic hanging in the balance, this is not an occasion for bombast. Rather it is time to reach humbly in the darkness, seeking only to summon such measured words as convey the intense dignity of this moment. In short, I think we all feel the hand of history on our pussies.
    Donald Trump, Americaā€™s howling id, has not lost this election. Then again, Joe Biden has not won it. Shortly before 6am UK time, Biden addressed a rally ā€“ never a better time for one, mate ā€“ and told the Delaware crowd he was ā€œoptimisticā€. In split-screen Trump addressed his Twitter retinue, and told them of ā€œa big WINā€, adding ā€œthey are trying to STEAL the election ā€¦ votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed.ā€ Expect him to invade Pole-land in the coming days.
    Still, whatever happens now, no one can argue that a result this close was a repudiation of his way of doing business, so anyone expecting the gibberingly loyal Republican party to tack away from its current psychiatric space for the next couple of decades ought probably to get used to disappointment.
    Shortly after 7am UK time, Trump addressed the nation with quasi-dictatorial fanfare, falsely claiming victory as well as electoral fraud, and seeking to disenfranchise voters in undeclared states. This at least had been predicted. There have long been signs that Trump would not be able to handle even potentially unfavourable election results. After all, just look how he handled male pattern baldness. Contrary to what a lot of people said over the past four years, Trump did eventually manage to build something described as an ā€œunscalableā€ fence. Unfortunately, he only did it this week, and it now surrounds the White House.
    And so on.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/ok-america-so-what-the-hell-happens-now

  155. Gosh, not long ago Nate Silver was saying Georgia is on the brink of leans Biden. I thought it was all over, there.

  156. Gosh, not long ago Nate Silver was saying Georgia is on the brink of leans Biden. I thought it was all over, there.

  157. A brief review:
    Having all electors in a state vote for whoever won the popular vote in that state was not the original practice. It became the norm over time in the first third of the 19th C. Maine and Nebraska still allocate electors proportionately to the popular vote breakdown.
    Amendments to eliminate or alter the Electoral College were proposed in 1950, 1956, 1969, 1979, and 2004. Hearings to consider proposals were held in 1992 and 1997. A lawsuit was brought by the state of DE and 11 other states to eliminate, by law, the “winner take all” allocation regime used by most states.
    This is not a new thing.
    There have been 27 amendments to the US Constitution. Six of those represent changes to the voting process, either by changes to the process itself, or by extending the franchise. Another three clarified or made changes to rules for presidential succession or term of office.
    There is no constitutionally mandated number of SCOTUS justices. Originally there were six, then Adams trimmed it down to five to mess with Jefferson’s head, then Jefferson bumped it back up to six, then three more were added as new circuit courts were created, then Lincoln added one more because Dred Scott, then Congress knocked it back down to seven so Johnson wouldn’t be able to appoint any more, then bumped it back up to nine when Grant was elected, because they liked him better.
    And it’s been nine since 1869, and stayed there for the last 150 of our not-quite 250 years.
    Roosevelt tried to bump it up again in the 30’s. He couldn’t get away with it, but it did work as a shot across Congress’ bow.
    We change the rules all the time. Not daily, but certainly in time scales measured in decades.
    We are a self-governing republic. When the rules are not productive, we can change them. It even says so right in the Constitution.

  158. A brief review:
    Having all electors in a state vote for whoever won the popular vote in that state was not the original practice. It became the norm over time in the first third of the 19th C. Maine and Nebraska still allocate electors proportionately to the popular vote breakdown.
    Amendments to eliminate or alter the Electoral College were proposed in 1950, 1956, 1969, 1979, and 2004. Hearings to consider proposals were held in 1992 and 1997. A lawsuit was brought by the state of DE and 11 other states to eliminate, by law, the “winner take all” allocation regime used by most states.
    This is not a new thing.
    There have been 27 amendments to the US Constitution. Six of those represent changes to the voting process, either by changes to the process itself, or by extending the franchise. Another three clarified or made changes to rules for presidential succession or term of office.
    There is no constitutionally mandated number of SCOTUS justices. Originally there were six, then Adams trimmed it down to five to mess with Jefferson’s head, then Jefferson bumped it back up to six, then three more were added as new circuit courts were created, then Lincoln added one more because Dred Scott, then Congress knocked it back down to seven so Johnson wouldn’t be able to appoint any more, then bumped it back up to nine when Grant was elected, because they liked him better.
    And it’s been nine since 1869, and stayed there for the last 150 of our not-quite 250 years.
    Roosevelt tried to bump it up again in the 30’s. He couldn’t get away with it, but it did work as a shot across Congress’ bow.
    We change the rules all the time. Not daily, but certainly in time scales measured in decades.
    We are a self-governing republic. When the rules are not productive, we can change them. It even says so right in the Constitution.

  159. Margin is down to 57k votes, NY Times estimates 310k votes left to count. If you look at the county returns, it looks like virtually all of it is in Biden leaning counties, so it is possible. Margin could end up less than 10k either way, which would trigger a recount. Facebook post being shared around by local folks indicates that in DeKalb county there are also 40K rejected mail/absentee ballots that have until Friday to be “cured”. Current results in DeKalb have Biden up 83%-16%.

  160. Margin is down to 57k votes, NY Times estimates 310k votes left to count. If you look at the county returns, it looks like virtually all of it is in Biden leaning counties, so it is possible. Margin could end up less than 10k either way, which would trigger a recount. Facebook post being shared around by local folks indicates that in DeKalb county there are also 40K rejected mail/absentee ballots that have until Friday to be “cured”. Current results in DeKalb have Biden up 83%-16%.

  161. In 2022, (D)’s will be defending 12 Senate seats, (R)’s will be defending 22. Two of the Senate (R)’s are retiring, so for two of the 22 there will be no incumbent.
    Members, don’t get weary.

  162. In 2022, (D)’s will be defending 12 Senate seats, (R)’s will be defending 22. Two of the Senate (R)’s are retiring, so for two of the 22 there will be no incumbent.
    Members, don’t get weary.

  163. When I voted I was asked for an ID. But they accepted the expired ID I had on me.
    “The most often noted difference between American elections among the visitors was that in most U.S. states, voters need no identification. Voters can also vote by mail, sometimes online, and thereā€™s often no way to know if one person has voted several times under different names, unlike in some Arab countries, where voters ink their fingers when casting their ballots.
    The international visitors also noted that thereā€™s no police at U.S. polling stations. In foreign countries, police at polling places are viewed as signs of security; in the United States they are sometimes seen as intimidating.”
    UN Poll-Watchers ā€˜Amazedā€™ US Doesnā€™t Require IDs To Vote: November 6, 2012

  164. When I voted I was asked for an ID. But they accepted the expired ID I had on me.
    “The most often noted difference between American elections among the visitors was that in most U.S. states, voters need no identification. Voters can also vote by mail, sometimes online, and thereā€™s often no way to know if one person has voted several times under different names, unlike in some Arab countries, where voters ink their fingers when casting their ballots.
    The international visitors also noted that thereā€™s no police at U.S. polling stations. In foreign countries, police at polling places are viewed as signs of security; in the United States they are sometimes seen as intimidating.”
    UN Poll-Watchers ā€˜Amazedā€™ US Doesnā€™t Require IDs To Vote: November 6, 2012

  167. Priest: thanks.
    CharlesWT: In the UK we don’t need ID to vote, nor do we have police in (or outside) polling stations. I usually vote by mail these days.
    Amen
    Seconded.

  168. Priest: thanks.
    CharlesWT: In the UK we don’t need ID to vote, nor do we have police in (or outside) polling stations. I usually vote by mail these days.
    Amen
    Seconded.

  169. “No ID” is not the same as “do not have to identify yourself”.
    If I vote in person, my name and address are verified before I can vote. Some bad actor or other could snoop my name and address and sneak in and vote instead of me, but you would not get away with too many of those before the poll worker would figure out something was up.
    If I vote by mail, I sign the ballot and the signature is compared to my signature on file with the town clerk.
    Everything is hackable, it’s a question of what the level of effort would be and whether it would succeed enough times to actually make a difference.

  170. “No ID” is not the same as “do not have to identify yourself”.
    If I vote in person, my name and address are verified before I can vote. Some bad actor or other could snoop my name and address and sneak in and vote instead of me, but you would not get away with too many of those before the poll worker would figure out something was up.
    If I vote by mail, I sign the ballot and the signature is compared to my signature on file with the town clerk.
    Everything is hackable, it’s a question of what the level of effort would be and whether it would succeed enough times to actually make a difference.

  171. Georgia looks like it might be close enough that “curing” rejected mail ballots might be important.

  172. Georgia looks like it might be close enough that “curing” rejected mail ballots might be important.

  173. If I vote in person, my name and address are verified before I can vote
    Same. They ask before giving ballot paper, we confirm verbally (or hand over the polling card we’ve been sent if we happen to have it), they check against a list of registered voters and then it’s a go.

  174. If I vote in person, my name and address are verified before I can vote
    Same. They ask before giving ballot paper, we confirm verbally (or hand over the polling card we’ve been sent if we happen to have it), they check against a list of registered voters and then it’s a go.

  175. Everything is hackable, it’s a question of what the level of effort would be and whether it would succeed enough times to actually make a difference.
    Bingo! At least in my state, at that point they’ve committed multiple felonies that bring jail time. I don’t see political operatives taking that sort of risk.
    Historically, election fraud in the US on a large enough scale to swing elections happens at the “wholesale” level. Probably the most common example is in a small rural county where the county clerk fills out absentee ballots for people who didn’t vote at all in order to win the election for themselves or (surprisingly often) the county sheriff. Even in the big cities — eg, the Daley machine in Chicago — it was only possible because there were crooked officials.
    One of the reasons Colorado’s vote by mail system wins plaudits for security from experts is that it includes a bunch of stuff to make wholesale fraud hard.

  176. Everything is hackable, it’s a question of what the level of effort would be and whether it would succeed enough times to actually make a difference.
    Bingo! At least in my state, at that point they’ve committed multiple felonies that bring jail time. I don’t see political operatives taking that sort of risk.
    Historically, election fraud in the US on a large enough scale to swing elections happens at the “wholesale” level. Probably the most common example is in a small rural county where the county clerk fills out absentee ballots for people who didn’t vote at all in order to win the election for themselves or (surprisingly often) the county sheriff. Even in the big cities — eg, the Daley machine in Chicago — it was only possible because there were crooked officials.
    One of the reasons Colorado’s vote by mail system wins plaudits for security from experts is that it includes a bunch of stuff to make wholesale fraud hard.

  177. In the good old days, there was no need to rig election outcomes via stealth and impersonation. All it took was a hearty sandwich, a free mug of beer, and a ballot already filled out for the voter to turn in.
    That’s the American way. Somehow we got off track.

  178. In the good old days, there was no need to rig election outcomes via stealth and impersonation. All it took was a hearty sandwich, a free mug of beer, and a ballot already filled out for the voter to turn in.
    That’s the American way. Somehow we got off track.

  179. Also, back in the days of the real America, not many even knew what “ID” was, much less had any.
    We really have gone to seed.

  180. Also, back in the days of the real America, not many even knew what “ID” was, much less had any.
    We really have gone to seed.

  181. Estimated vote left in Georgia down to 260k, margin down to 47k. If the ratio of 10k gained per 50k votes counted maintains, that would swing it to Biden +5k. Can’t say I’m expecting that, but would be nice.

  182. Estimated vote left in Georgia down to 260k, margin down to 47k. If the ratio of 10k gained per 50k votes counted maintains, that would swing it to Biden +5k. Can’t say I’m expecting that, but would be nice.

  185. When I voted I was asked for an ID. But they accepted the expired ID I had on me.
    At my polling place, I had one woman who was absolutely irate that she didn’t have to show her ID. Apparently a believer in voter fraud as a major problem.
    Fact is, in California it is ILLEGAL for poll workers to ask for ID. Or even to look at it if offered. Although, like russell reports of Massachusetts, they are asked for name and address.
    And we confirm that they haven’t voted already (either in person or a mail-in ballot received). Only once, over the years, have I encountered a situation where the individual was in the system as having voted. That was this time — the voter’s wife had sent in her mail-in ballot the envelope with his name on it rather than her own. We got it sorted out, with some flailing.

  186. When I voted I was asked for an ID. But they accepted the expired ID I had on me.
    At my polling place, I had one woman who was absolutely irate that she didn’t have to show her ID. Apparently a believer in voter fraud as a major problem.
    Fact is, in California it is ILLEGAL for poll workers to ask for ID. Or even to look at it if offered. Although, like russell reports of Massachusetts, they are asked for name and address.
    And we confirm that they haven’t voted already (either in person or a mail-in ballot received). Only once, over the years, have I encountered a situation where the individual was in the system as having voted. That was this time — the voter’s wife had sent in her mail-in ballot the envelope with his name on it rather than her own. We got it sorted out, with some flailing.

  191. Good for Puerto Rico. Traditionally, it’s the Puerto Rican Republican Party (it says so right on the label) which has pushed for statehood. So maybe they can convince McConnell to go for it. Here’s hoping.

  192. Good for Puerto Rico. Traditionally, it’s the Puerto Rican Republican Party (it says so right on the label) which has pushed for statehood. So maybe they can convince McConnell to go for it. Here’s hoping.

  193. Maricopa County in Arizona has closed its ballot-counting facility to the media and the public amid safety concerns as supporters of Donald Trump ā€” many of them armed ā€” gathered outside the building, several reporters on the ground have reported.

    when will GOP leaders speak up about the rampant violent Marxism?

  194. Maricopa County in Arizona has closed its ballot-counting facility to the media and the public amid safety concerns as supporters of Donald Trump ā€” many of them armed ā€” gathered outside the building, several reporters on the ground have reported.

    when will GOP leaders speak up about the rampant violent Marxism?

  195. when will GOP leaders speak up about the rampant violent Marxism?
    LOL. God, we need to get our laughs where we can.

  196. when will GOP leaders speak up about the rampant violent Marxism?
    LOL. God, we need to get our laughs where we can.

  197. I realise we haven’t heard anything from Marty for quite a while. I’m guessing his views on the election etc would be just as welcome and reasonable as McKinney’s, but it would be good to know that he was OK, given his vulnerable health situation.

  198. I realise we haven’t heard anything from Marty for quite a while. I’m guessing his views on the election etc would be just as welcome and reasonable as McKinney’s, but it would be good to know that he was OK, given his vulnerable health situation.

  201. ā€œ Traditionally, it’s the Puerto Rican Republican Party (it says so right on the label) which has pushed for statehoodā€
    Yeah, that confuses me, because usually lefties assume PR statehood is good for Democrats. Presumably P R Republicans see an advantage for them. Or maybe they are just public spirited and think it is a good idea on the merits.

  202. ā€œ Traditionally, it’s the Puerto Rican Republican Party (it says so right on the label) which has pushed for statehoodā€
    Yeah, that confuses me, because usually lefties assume PR statehood is good for Democrats. Presumably P R Republicans see an advantage for them. Or maybe they are just public spirited and think it is a good idea on the merits.

  203. Well, it dates back to at least the 1960s. (When, you recall, the racists were big in the Democratic Party.) So it may just be a historical anomaly.

  204. Well, it dates back to at least the 1960s. (When, you recall, the racists were big in the Democratic Party.) So it may just be a historical anomaly.

  205. From novakant’s link:

    What Trump stumbled on was that the solution to the partyā€™s chronic inability to win a majority of voters in presidential elections was to stop trying and instead to embrace and enforce minority rule. This possibility is built into the American system. The electoral college, the massive imbalance in representation in the Senate, the ability to gerrymander congressional districts, voter suppression, and the politicization of the Supreme Courtā€”these methods for imposing on the majority the will of the minority have always been available. Trump transformed them from tactical tools to permanent, strategic necessities.

  206. From novakant’s link:

    What Trump stumbled on was that the solution to the partyā€™s chronic inability to win a majority of voters in presidential elections was to stop trying and instead to embrace and enforce minority rule. This possibility is built into the American system. The electoral college, the massive imbalance in representation in the Senate, the ability to gerrymander congressional districts, voter suppression, and the politicization of the Supreme Courtā€”these methods for imposing on the majority the will of the minority have always been available. Trump transformed them from tactical tools to permanent, strategic necessities.

  207. Moscow Mitch is already announcing that he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    I think we don’t need to discuss any judicial nominations for at least the next 2 years (since that was to be the default anyway).

  208. Moscow Mitch is already announcing that he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    I think we don’t need to discuss any judicial nominations for at least the next 2 years (since that was to be the default anyway).

  211. he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    Behold the karmic beauty of the “acting” cabinet.
    Go ahead and try to complain about “norms”, (R)’s.
    What goes around, etc.

  212. he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    Behold the karmic beauty of the “acting” cabinet.
    Go ahead and try to complain about “norms”, (R)’s.
    What goes around, etc.

  213. You forget SCOTUS, russell. With Roberts no longer necessary for a majority those ‘acting appointments’ (and of course any and all recess appointments) can easily end up as ‘unconstitutional’. Not to forget executive orders. All only until there is a new GOPster POTUS obviously.

  214. You forget SCOTUS, russell. With Roberts no longer necessary for a majority those ‘acting appointments’ (and of course any and all recess appointments) can easily end up as ‘unconstitutional’. Not to forget executive orders. All only until there is a new GOPster POTUS obviously.

  215. Per the Congressional Research Service, there are quite a few restrictions on who can be “acting” in an advice-and-consent position. It may be difficult for Biden to find people who can be slotted into those offices, and what they can do, who were not Trump people.
    The Federal Vacancies Act did not consider the possibility that the Senate might refuse to approve appointments wholesale.

  216. Per the Congressional Research Service, there are quite a few restrictions on who can be “acting” in an advice-and-consent position. It may be difficult for Biden to find people who can be slotted into those offices, and what they can do, who were not Trump people.
    The Federal Vacancies Act did not consider the possibility that the Senate might refuse to approve appointments wholesale.

  217. W’s OLC said it was OK.
    Not that that will prevent anyone from discovering that it’s NOT OK when the POTUS is a (D).
    But there is that tiny bit of legal opinion on record.
    Basically, my point of view at this point is that norms are off the table. We’ve been de-normed, and are just trying to figure out to function in a de-normed world.
    Let’s make new norms.

  218. W’s OLC said it was OK.
    Not that that will prevent anyone from discovering that it’s NOT OK when the POTUS is a (D).
    But there is that tiny bit of legal opinion on record.
    Basically, my point of view at this point is that norms are off the table. We’ve been de-normed, and are just trying to figure out to function in a de-normed world.
    Let’s make new norms.

  219. norms? norms are only good if you trust the other side.
    right on the bleeding edge of legality (and fight for every comma and period) is where things have to be now.

  220. norms? norms are only good if you trust the other side.
    right on the bleeding edge of legality (and fight for every comma and period) is where things have to be now.

  221. Basically, my point of view at this point is that norms are off the table. We’ve been de-normed, and are just trying to figure out to function in a de-normed world.
    It was the most massive short-termism folly of the past 4 years: McConnell’s working on the (apparent) assumption that there would never be another Democratic President. Who might do all the kinds of things that he was cheerfully letting Trump get away with.
    Massive stupidity doesn’t begin to describe…. I mean, just because you are intentionally becoming the party of the non-college educated doesn’t mean you are required to do stupid stuff!

  222. Basically, my point of view at this point is that norms are off the table. We’ve been de-normed, and are just trying to figure out to function in a de-normed world.
    It was the most massive short-termism folly of the past 4 years: McConnell’s working on the (apparent) assumption that there would never be another Democratic President. Who might do all the kinds of things that he was cheerfully letting Trump get away with.
    Massive stupidity doesn’t begin to describe…. I mean, just because you are intentionally becoming the party of the non-college educated doesn’t mean you are required to do stupid stuff!

  223. Norm? Wasn’t he that guy at the end of the bar in Cheers? If Norms are going away, does that mean we are left going over the Cliff?
    Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors. The next two months are going to be worse than the last two.

  224. Norm? Wasn’t he that guy at the end of the bar in Cheers? If Norms are going away, does that mean we are left going over the Cliff?
    Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors. The next two months are going to be worse than the last two.

  227. The courts have their place, but obedience to court rulings is ultimately also a “norm”.
    “Roberts has made his ruling, now let him enforce it” is a tweet we can expect from He, Trump in the next couple of months. Andrew Jackson would be proud of Him.
    –TP

  228. The courts have their place, but obedience to court rulings is ultimately also a “norm”.
    “Roberts has made his ruling, now let him enforce it” is a tweet we can expect from He, Trump in the next couple of months. Andrew Jackson would be proud of Him.
    –TP

  233. https://www.mediamatters.org/voter-fraud-and-suppression/ric-grenell-and-matt-schlapp-flee-van-when-asked-jacob-soboroff-present
    A former Director of National Intelligence on the ground attempting to steal a fucking Presidential election.
    If only Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton’s (had her lung cancer and fatal syphilis cleared up in time for the 2016 election) deep state had done this in 2000, 2004, and 2016, so we could have rounded up and executed the entire republican edifice, head by head, of the subhuman, anti-American conservative movement by now.
    You’d think they, being members of the subversive conservative crypto-Christian death cult and having put on some years since previous election thefts, would by now be old enough to take the advice of Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (who he? nobody know. why, his kids hardly recognize him) and the example of Herman Cain, and goddamned died, but not before spreading the virus and killing their “fellow” Americans with it like a bunch of CCP bureaucrats, of the Covid-19 to save hospital bed space and bullets.
    There are 25 other letters in the alphabet besides Q to attach to a merciless, murderous Anon representing every American to the Left of Barry Goldwater (what’s that, only 49% percent of the electorate in 2020?) who can make every day, every election miserably threatening for the child-molesting Republican Party, forever.
    AAnon, BAnon, CAnon, DAnon, EAnon, FAnon, GAnon, HAnon, IAnon, JAnon, KAnon, LAnon, MAnon, NAnon, OAnon, PAnon, RAnon, SAnon, TAnon, UAnon, VAnon, WAnon, XAnon, YAnon, ZAnon.
    That should fill every fucking pizza parlor in the country to eliminate the Trump republican menace.

  234. https://www.mediamatters.org/voter-fraud-and-suppression/ric-grenell-and-matt-schlapp-flee-van-when-asked-jacob-soboroff-present
    A former Director of National Intelligence on the ground attempting to steal a fucking Presidential election.
    If only Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton’s (had her lung cancer and fatal syphilis cleared up in time for the 2016 election) deep state had done this in 2000, 2004, and 2016, so we could have rounded up and executed the entire republican edifice, head by head, of the subhuman, anti-American conservative movement by now.
    You’d think they, being members of the subversive conservative crypto-Christian death cult and having put on some years since previous election thefts, would by now be old enough to take the advice of Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (who he? nobody know. why, his kids hardly recognize him) and the example of Herman Cain, and goddamned died, but not before spreading the virus and killing their “fellow” Americans with it like a bunch of CCP bureaucrats, of the Covid-19 to save hospital bed space and bullets.
    There are 25 other letters in the alphabet besides Q to attach to a merciless, murderous Anon representing every American to the Left of Barry Goldwater (what’s that, only 49% percent of the electorate in 2020?) who can make every day, every election miserably threatening for the child-molesting Republican Party, forever.
    AAnon, BAnon, CAnon, DAnon, EAnon, FAnon, GAnon, HAnon, IAnon, JAnon, KAnon, LAnon, MAnon, NAnon, OAnon, PAnon, RAnon, SAnon, TAnon, UAnon, VAnon, WAnon, XAnon, YAnon, ZAnon.
    That should fill every fucking pizza parlor in the country to eliminate the Trump republican menace.

  235. Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors.
    if they want left-wing violence, this would do it.

  236. Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors.
    if they want left-wing violence, this would do it.

  237. Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors.
    Think of it as an acknowledgment that the various law suits are going to fail to turn things around for the Trump campaign.
    But yeah, having a state legislature decide to override their state’s voters and pick a different Presidential candidate would blow things up bigtime.
    What I think would actually happen would be a law suit insisting that the Supreme Court should mandate that voters should be able to rely on the rules in place when they voted. That is, not change how the electors will be chosen after the fact. And I think that even the partisans on the Supreme Court would go with that.

  238. Now fckwad Trump is calling for GOP state legislatures to overturn the vote and select their own pet electors.
    Think of it as an acknowledgment that the various law suits are going to fail to turn things around for the Trump campaign.
    But yeah, having a state legislature decide to override their state’s voters and pick a different Presidential candidate would blow things up bigtime.
    What I think would actually happen would be a law suit insisting that the Supreme Court should mandate that voters should be able to rely on the rules in place when they voted. That is, not change how the electors will be chosen after the fact. And I think that even the partisans on the Supreme Court would go with that.

  239. wj, with all due respect, the few remaining norms around which you continue to draw new lines in the sand after every retreat, and are able to ferret out have already been gamed and tagged for extinction by the conservative monster.
    Further, any adjustments, radical or trivial, good or ill made to the Supreme Court, the Electoral College, and other institutions, will be subverted and corrupted by the malignant conservative movement to their advantage, by hook and by crook, now and in future election cycles.
    It’s the very existence of the conservative movement that threatens the majority of the American people and our institutions, no matter the protocols and norms we adopt.

  240. wj, with all due respect, the few remaining norms around which you continue to draw new lines in the sand after every retreat, and are able to ferret out have already been gamed and tagged for extinction by the conservative monster.
    Further, any adjustments, radical or trivial, good or ill made to the Supreme Court, the Electoral College, and other institutions, will be subverted and corrupted by the malignant conservative movement to their advantage, by hook and by crook, now and in future election cycles.
    It’s the very existence of the conservative movement that threatens the majority of the American people and our institutions, no matter the protocols and norms we adopt.

  241. JDT, I quite understand your pessimism. But I would point out a couple of things.
    Consider that in Wisconsin, with a Republican state government, Biden is winning. And their Republican state officials are saying there is essentially zero chance of the expected recount demanded by Trump changing that.
    Trump is trying lots of other legal challenges. But see this
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/trump-wants-to-steal-the-election-but-hell-fail.html
    And also this
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/vote-counts-swing-from-one-party-to-another-thats-not-evidence-of-fraud/
    Of course, they could be wrong, too. But it’s not just me being insanely optimistic.

  242. JDT, I quite understand your pessimism. But I would point out a couple of things.
    Consider that in Wisconsin, with a Republican state government, Biden is winning. And their Republican state officials are saying there is essentially zero chance of the expected recount demanded by Trump changing that.
    Trump is trying lots of other legal challenges. But see this
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/trump-wants-to-steal-the-election-but-hell-fail.html
    And also this
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/vote-counts-swing-from-one-party-to-another-thats-not-evidence-of-fraud/
    Of course, they could be wrong, too. But it’s not just me being insanely optimistic.

  243. Re: Legislatures unilaterally appointing presidential electors.
    I’m pretty damned sure than in all 50 states, the appointment of electors as a consequence of the election is a STATE LAW, and so if GOP legislatures want to overturn it, they need to pass a new law and get their Governor to sign it.
    Maybe not a problem for states with total GOP control, but those are probably already in the Trump column.
    If a legislature “goes rogue” and decides to appoint electors on their very own? Ipso facto felonious conduct, so summary citizen scragging is called for.
    If you want to live a long and quiet life, don’t let a lawless legislature appoint you, just saying.

  244. Re: Legislatures unilaterally appointing presidential electors.
    I’m pretty damned sure than in all 50 states, the appointment of electors as a consequence of the election is a STATE LAW, and so if GOP legislatures want to overturn it, they need to pass a new law and get their Governor to sign it.
    Maybe not a problem for states with total GOP control, but those are probably already in the Trump column.
    If a legislature “goes rogue” and decides to appoint electors on their very own? Ipso facto felonious conduct, so summary citizen scragging is called for.
    If you want to live a long and quiet life, don’t let a lawless legislature appoint you, just saying.

  245. wj, I didn’t write that you are insanely optimistic.
    You ARE sane.
    I’m insane.
    It’s just that I don’t view sanity as the proper defense against the ever-advancing malignity of the trump republican movement.
    They are fucking crazy. They believe every defeat is a resounding victory and every victory the prelude to doubling down on defeating their enemies.
    The Texas Rangers made a decision that they had to become Comanche in their tactics to defeat the Comanche.
    Thus my insanity.
    Not that I like the Texas Rangers any better than the Comanche.

  246. wj, I didn’t write that you are insanely optimistic.
    You ARE sane.
    I’m insane.
    It’s just that I don’t view sanity as the proper defense against the ever-advancing malignity of the trump republican movement.
    They are fucking crazy. They believe every defeat is a resounding victory and every victory the prelude to doubling down on defeating their enemies.
    The Texas Rangers made a decision that they had to become Comanche in their tactics to defeat the Comanche.
    Thus my insanity.
    Not that I like the Texas Rangers any better than the Comanche.

  247. If the Pennsylvania legislature decides to appoint Trump electors while the governor sends a certificate of ascertainment to the Archivist with the Biden slate of electors, including the popular vote totals after the count has been concluded and certified, then Congress will get to have fun with this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act
    Which, according to the article is a mess and contains unresolved questions about how it deals with some key issues. Democratic control of the Senate would have solved that as a practical matter. Oh well.

  248. If the Pennsylvania legislature decides to appoint Trump electors while the governor sends a certificate of ascertainment to the Archivist with the Biden slate of electors, including the popular vote totals after the count has been concluded and certified, then Congress will get to have fun with this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act
    Which, according to the article is a mess and contains unresolved questions about how it deals with some key issues. Democratic control of the Senate would have solved that as a practical matter. Oh well.

  251. Moscow Mitch is already announcing that he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    There will be run-off races for Senate seats in Georgia in January. Dems really need to pull massive turnout for those and hope the Trumpkins are dispirited enough to stay home.

  252. Moscow Mitch is already announcing that he will use the veto power of the senate to block Biden cabinet nominees he does not like.
    There will be run-off races for Senate seats in Georgia in January. Dems really need to pull massive turnout for those and hope the Trumpkins are dispirited enough to stay home.

  253. We’re governed by election-stealing scum who speak in tongues.
    Nothing like watching somebody chant themselves into a trance while some guy walks around reading the paper.
    As McKinney might suggest, keep it up
    McK seems to think that it is the job of (D)’s to persuade people who freaking hate them and anything they stand for, or perhaps in spite of and without regard to anything they stand for, to turn around and vote for them.
    I’m not seeing the upside there.

  254. We’re governed by election-stealing scum who speak in tongues.
    Nothing like watching somebody chant themselves into a trance while some guy walks around reading the paper.
    As McKinney might suggest, keep it up
    McK seems to think that it is the job of (D)’s to persuade people who freaking hate them and anything they stand for, or perhaps in spite of and without regard to anything they stand for, to turn around and vote for them.
    I’m not seeing the upside there.

  255. I’ve just ordered this book:
    https://theworthyhouse.com/2020/09/08/the-stakes-america-at-the-point-of-no-return-michael-anton/
    He previously wrote “The Flight 93 Election”, and a sequel, in which everyone here is targeted as murderous terrorist hijackers, much as some believe lj is a not so closeted CCP functionary.
    No, this election, this disgrace, is a mere pebble in the shoe of the malign conservative movement’s long march creation design for my country.
    If any of Anton’s plans gain further traction in America, he is going to personally know that it was extraordinarily fucking stupid for the conservative movement to so blithely arm me.
    And there are tens of millions just like me to turn this pigfuckery back.

  256. I’ve just ordered this book:
    https://theworthyhouse.com/2020/09/08/the-stakes-america-at-the-point-of-no-return-michael-anton/
    He previously wrote “The Flight 93 Election”, and a sequel, in which everyone here is targeted as murderous terrorist hijackers, much as some believe lj is a not so closeted CCP functionary.
    No, this election, this disgrace, is a mere pebble in the shoe of the malign conservative movement’s long march creation design for my country.
    If any of Anton’s plans gain further traction in America, he is going to personally know that it was extraordinarily fucking stupid for the conservative movement to so blithely arm me.
    And there are tens of millions just like me to turn this pigfuckery back.

  259. “Nothing like watching somebody chant themselves into a trance while some guy walks around reading the paper.”
    Well, that guy is just whiling away the time before he passes around the collection plate for Trump to pocket the contents, and because the crazy Trump God-witch previously hypnotized him to perform a sex act on her after the money revival meeting and then shoot some peaceful Black Lives Matter protestors in the back because they want their ballots counted.

  260. “Nothing like watching somebody chant themselves into a trance while some guy walks around reading the paper.”
    Well, that guy is just whiling away the time before he passes around the collection plate for Trump to pocket the contents, and because the crazy Trump God-witch previously hypnotized him to perform a sex act on her after the money revival meeting and then shoot some peaceful Black Lives Matter protestors in the back because they want their ballots counted.

  263. The idea is that just being an incumbent provides advantages, which I suppose is true for whatever fraction of voters who can be influenced by fairly trivial things.
    My sense has been that the “incumbency advantage” wasn’t so much a theoretical construct (an idea) as an observation based on the data in hand.
    Not sure what to conclude about the people whose actions lead to it. Perhaps nothing more arcane than that they dislike change, and electing someone new would be a change — regardless of which party the incumbant is.

  265. The idea is that just being an incumbent provides advantages, which I suppose is true for whatever fraction of voters who can be influenced by fairly trivial things.
    My sense has been that the “incumbency advantage” wasn’t so much a theoretical construct (an idea) as an observation based on the data in hand.
    Not sure what to conclude about the people whose actions lead to it. Perhaps nothing more arcane than that they dislike change, and electing someone new would be a change — regardless of which party the incumbant is.

  267. Meanwhile, another 108,000+ new cases in US today. Death rates in Europe heading back up, back to May numbers in the countries Kevin Drum displays daily graphs for.
    Walking from train station to work today got to hear the chants of “Four More Years” from a group of Trump supporters waving flags and signs, hanging out on the sidewalk of Centennial Park drive between State Farm Arena and Mercedes Benz stadium. Driving past them on the street was a parade of 6-10 vehicles filled with Biden supporters, the passengers yelling “Fuck Trump” repeatedly out the windows.

  268. Meanwhile, another 108,000+ new cases in US today. Death rates in Europe heading back up, back to May numbers in the countries Kevin Drum displays daily graphs for.
    Walking from train station to work today got to hear the chants of “Four More Years” from a group of Trump supporters waving flags and signs, hanging out on the sidewalk of Centennial Park drive between State Farm Arena and Mercedes Benz stadium. Driving past them on the street was a parade of 6-10 vehicles filled with Biden supporters, the passengers yelling “Fuck Trump” repeatedly out the windows.

  269. I find the Levitz piece to be a lot more pessimistic than I am. Assuming, of course, that the numbers actually come in for Biden, and the courts don’t throw the election somehow.
    Sure, it would be better to have gotten the Senate. Of course. But one thing about Trump and his new normal – Biden can ignore a lot of what McConnell will try to threaten.
    Some of the most egregious actions of the Trump years involve his cruelty to asylum seekers and undocumented people. This will end. Biden’s control over administrative agencies will guarantee more attention to environmental concerns, science back in the CDC (and where it’s needed elsewhere), and a rebuilding of institutions that Trump tore down.
    You say McConnell won’t allow it to be funded? F him. Biden should just push the envelope wherever it will go. He should investigate everyone, including McConnell and his wife and their blatant conflicts of interest.
    Biden has a hell of a lot of power, and he might actually use it, because Harris is no wallflower.
    My guess is that a lot of R’s are quaking in their boots waiting for their indictment.

  270. I find the Levitz piece to be a lot more pessimistic than I am. Assuming, of course, that the numbers actually come in for Biden, and the courts don’t throw the election somehow.
    Sure, it would be better to have gotten the Senate. Of course. But one thing about Trump and his new normal – Biden can ignore a lot of what McConnell will try to threaten.
    Some of the most egregious actions of the Trump years involve his cruelty to asylum seekers and undocumented people. This will end. Biden’s control over administrative agencies will guarantee more attention to environmental concerns, science back in the CDC (and where it’s needed elsewhere), and a rebuilding of institutions that Trump tore down.
    You say McConnell won’t allow it to be funded? F him. Biden should just push the envelope wherever it will go. He should investigate everyone, including McConnell and his wife and their blatant conflicts of interest.
    Biden has a hell of a lot of power, and he might actually use it, because Harris is no wallflower.
    My guess is that a lot of R’s are quaking in their boots waiting for their indictment.

  271. But one thing about Trump and his new normal – Biden can ignore a lot of what McConnell will try to threaten.
    To be honest, I’m much more concerned about the SCOTUS. Much of what Trump accomplished (at least that falls into my areas of interest) was done by department/agency rule making. The new make up of the Court seems much more inclined to hold that attempts to restore more restrictive rules are unconstitutional. Gorsuch was likely chosen because of his support for the non-delegation doctrine.

  272. But one thing about Trump and his new normal – Biden can ignore a lot of what McConnell will try to threaten.
    To be honest, I’m much more concerned about the SCOTUS. Much of what Trump accomplished (at least that falls into my areas of interest) was done by department/agency rule making. The new make up of the Court seems much more inclined to hold that attempts to restore more restrictive rules are unconstitutional. Gorsuch was likely chosen because of his support for the non-delegation doctrine.

  273. If Biden even looks like he’s maybe thinking of possibly saying that he wants to look “forward, not back” you can kiss American democracy good bye.
    If Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have the balls to announce (maybe privately to the Joint Chiefs, first) that she holds the purse that buys toys for the Pentagon, and she won’t open it until Yertl passes her spending bills first, you can kiss Article 1 good bye.
    If Nancy would listen to me, she would also announce that the day Congress reconvenes on January 3rd the Democrats will introduce a bill to raise the personal exemption on the income tax to $50K, retroactive to the 2020 tax year. An insane idea, I hear you cry? Shhh. Let Yertl and the Republicons make the argument that such a yuge low-end tax cut would make job creators cry and job consumers don’t deserve that kind of largesse anyway. And think of the fun we’ll have watching McTx call a tax cut Marxist.
    Retribution, blackmail, and a bit of humor. That’s all I ask.
    –TP

  274. If Biden even looks like he’s maybe thinking of possibly saying that he wants to look “forward, not back” you can kiss American democracy good bye.
    If Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have the balls to announce (maybe privately to the Joint Chiefs, first) that she holds the purse that buys toys for the Pentagon, and she won’t open it until Yertl passes her spending bills first, you can kiss Article 1 good bye.
    If Nancy would listen to me, she would also announce that the day Congress reconvenes on January 3rd the Democrats will introduce a bill to raise the personal exemption on the income tax to $50K, retroactive to the 2020 tax year. An insane idea, I hear you cry? Shhh. Let Yertl and the Republicons make the argument that such a yuge low-end tax cut would make job creators cry and job consumers don’t deserve that kind of largesse anyway. And think of the fun we’ll have watching McTx call a tax cut Marxist.
    Retribution, blackmail, and a bit of humor. That’s all I ask.
    –TP

  275. If Marty was here I could imagine him compelled to point out that based on the current numbers Biden’s lead in the national popular vote is very close to equal to Biden’s lead in the reported California vote. If we abolished the EC then those Californians would be deciding things for the rest of the whole country, etc., etc.
    No need to rehash the refutations of that, I just noticed the numbers and was reminded of that nonsense.

  276. If Marty was here I could imagine him compelled to point out that based on the current numbers Biden’s lead in the national popular vote is very close to equal to Biden’s lead in the reported California vote. If we abolished the EC then those Californians would be deciding things for the rest of the whole country, etc., etc.
    No need to rehash the refutations of that, I just noticed the numbers and was reminded of that nonsense.

  279. The new make up of the Court seems much more inclined to hold that attempts to restore more restrictive rules are unconstitutional. Gorsuch was likely chosen because of his support for the non-delegation doctrine.
    This.
    This is actually the biggest worry about the court. Not Roe v. Wade, as much of a fan as I am of that decision (sorry, spirit of RBG, but I am a fan of the actual decision).
    I worry about Social Security, for example. On the other hand, if they do that (hold the administrative state unconstitutional), I still say: if we can’t find a quick work-around, ignore. Will it cause a civil war? Maybe. Maybe not.
    Michael Cain, thank you.

  280. The new make up of the Court seems much more inclined to hold that attempts to restore more restrictive rules are unconstitutional. Gorsuch was likely chosen because of his support for the non-delegation doctrine.
    This.
    This is actually the biggest worry about the court. Not Roe v. Wade, as much of a fan as I am of that decision (sorry, spirit of RBG, but I am a fan of the actual decision).
    I worry about Social Security, for example. On the other hand, if they do that (hold the administrative state unconstitutional), I still say: if we can’t find a quick work-around, ignore. Will it cause a civil war? Maybe. Maybe not.
    Michael Cain, thank you.

  281. it would utterly destroy the US.
    tens of millions of people have factored SS and medi* into their financial plans (some with little else).
    pulling that away would be catastrophic.

  282. it would utterly destroy the US.
    tens of millions of people have factored SS and medi* into their financial plans (some with little else).
    pulling that away would be catastrophic.

  283. I fervently hope the counts in the remaining states favor Biden, because if Trump continues as POTUS, the next four years are going to be Trump’s revenge on everyone who doesn’t worship him. Non-stop.
    That said, almost half the country voted for him. And that, after the last four years of f***ing non-stop chaotic malfeasance.
    So none of this is over.
    I have no idea what to make of this country at this point. I have no idea where we are going. I don’t think anybody does.
    Jump ball.
    I am happy to throw whatever resources I can bring to bear at the task of not letting the place go to hell in a handbasket, but I am under no illusions that Trump and the Trump years are anything like an anomaly.
    The US is a lot of things, and one of those things, in no small measure, is Donald Trump.
    We are going to see a lot of calls to “come together”, and to “let the nation heal”. We aren’t together, and we aren’t coming together, and show no sign of doing so in any foreseeable time frame. Neither are we healing, I’m not sure we even know how broken we are, or what the nature of our internal disease is.
    I fundamentally do not trust half the people in this country. A very large number of them appear, to me, to be reckless belligerent knuckleheads, unthinking nationalistic bigots. A goon squad.
    Does that seem unkind? I don’t really know what else to say about it.
    Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.
    I have no way to understand that, that is in any way favorable to them.
    I’m obliged to share a country with them. I do so with my eyes open.
    Probably not my most helpful comment ever. It is what it is, as the man said.

  284. I fervently hope the counts in the remaining states favor Biden, because if Trump continues as POTUS, the next four years are going to be Trump’s revenge on everyone who doesn’t worship him. Non-stop.
    That said, almost half the country voted for him. And that, after the last four years of f***ing non-stop chaotic malfeasance.
    So none of this is over.
    I have no idea what to make of this country at this point. I have no idea where we are going. I don’t think anybody does.
    Jump ball.
    I am happy to throw whatever resources I can bring to bear at the task of not letting the place go to hell in a handbasket, but I am under no illusions that Trump and the Trump years are anything like an anomaly.
    The US is a lot of things, and one of those things, in no small measure, is Donald Trump.
    We are going to see a lot of calls to “come together”, and to “let the nation heal”. We aren’t together, and we aren’t coming together, and show no sign of doing so in any foreseeable time frame. Neither are we healing, I’m not sure we even know how broken we are, or what the nature of our internal disease is.
    I fundamentally do not trust half the people in this country. A very large number of them appear, to me, to be reckless belligerent knuckleheads, unthinking nationalistic bigots. A goon squad.
    Does that seem unkind? I don’t really know what else to say about it.
    Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.
    I have no way to understand that, that is in any way favorable to them.
    I’m obliged to share a country with them. I do so with my eyes open.
    Probably not my most helpful comment ever. It is what it is, as the man said.

  287. pulling that away would be catastrophic.
    you’re talking about people who are perfectly happy to kill programs that provide people with food, shelter, and medical insurance. people who, in the middle of a pandemic, decided that it was more important to seat a conservative SCOTUS justice and then go home, than to pass a financial relief package. people who sat in a room, discussed it, and decided that taking people’s kids away was a good way to disincentivize people from trying to enter the country. they probably even used the word “disincentivize”.
    do you think they give a flying f*** about whether their preferred policies would be a catastrophe for other people or not? I don’t.
    if you can point to anything to demonstrate otherwise, I’m all ears.

  288. pulling that away would be catastrophic.
    you’re talking about people who are perfectly happy to kill programs that provide people with food, shelter, and medical insurance. people who, in the middle of a pandemic, decided that it was more important to seat a conservative SCOTUS justice and then go home, than to pass a financial relief package. people who sat in a room, discussed it, and decided that taking people’s kids away was a good way to disincentivize people from trying to enter the country. they probably even used the word “disincentivize”.
    do you think they give a flying f*** about whether their preferred policies would be a catastrophe for other people or not? I don’t.
    if you can point to anything to demonstrate otherwise, I’m all ears.

  289. tens of millions of people have factored SS and medi* into their financial plans (some with little else).
    pulling that away would be catastrophic.
    Most notably, it would be catastrophic for the party which put forward the justices making that ruling. Simply because so many of their current supporters are among those critically dependent on SS and MediCare.
    To date, they have managed the mental gymnastics required to support a party dedicated to leaving them impoverished — presumably by being unable to believe anyone would really do that. But when the money stopped, it would be impossible to ignore.

  290. tens of millions of people have factored SS and medi* into their financial plans (some with little else).
    pulling that away would be catastrophic.
    Most notably, it would be catastrophic for the party which put forward the justices making that ruling. Simply because so many of their current supporters are among those critically dependent on SS and MediCare.
    To date, they have managed the mental gymnastics required to support a party dedicated to leaving them impoverished — presumably by being unable to believe anyone would really do that. But when the money stopped, it would be impossible to ignore.

  291. Probably not my most helpful comment ever. It is what it is, as the man said.
    Whether helpful or not, it is the way I feel, so thanks for saying it.
    Unlike you, russell, you who are generous and kind, I’ve been suspicious for a long time. I am polite to people in public, and I consider my somewhat “crazy” [obviously not a good word to use] family member who voted for Trump still my family, and if he needed me I hope I would be there.
    I know a few people who are disadvantaged white folks, people who I consider low-information people, who might fly their confederate flags or whatever. To be perfectly honest, I respect them as people, but don’t think they’re up to the task of thinking about national policy and such. I can sort of forgive them their resentments.
    Not the rich people though. No. They are traitors, fascists, vile … whatever horrible adjective applies … fucking people.

  292. Probably not my most helpful comment ever. It is what it is, as the man said.
    Whether helpful or not, it is the way I feel, so thanks for saying it.
    Unlike you, russell, you who are generous and kind, I’ve been suspicious for a long time. I am polite to people in public, and I consider my somewhat “crazy” [obviously not a good word to use] family member who voted for Trump still my family, and if he needed me I hope I would be there.
    I know a few people who are disadvantaged white folks, people who I consider low-information people, who might fly their confederate flags or whatever. To be perfectly honest, I respect them as people, but don’t think they’re up to the task of thinking about national policy and such. I can sort of forgive them their resentments.
    Not the rich people though. No. They are traitors, fascists, vile … whatever horrible adjective applies … fucking people.

  293. i think SS and Medi* are fairly concrete for a lot of people. if not directly, then a direct family member.
    is Jimmy “COVID” Rollincoal gonna pay for his mother’s retirement? or is he going to realize SS is keeping them both alive?

  294. i think SS and Medi* are fairly concrete for a lot of people. if not directly, then a direct family member.
    is Jimmy “COVID” Rollincoal gonna pay for his mother’s retirement? or is he going to realize SS is keeping them both alive?

  295. Biden could start by having the FCC re-impose the “fairness doctrine”.
    If the RW complains about it too much, give them a choice: Fairness Doctrine or Fox News gets drone-strikes.

  296. Biden could start by having the FCC re-impose the “fairness doctrine”.
    If the RW complains about it too much, give them a choice: Fairness Doctrine or Fox News gets drone-strikes.

  299. Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.
    I think that’s actually the root of the problem. They were watching someone playing a part. In a show.
    A show that they simply do not connect to things happening in their lives. Any more than which team wins a sports contest impacts whether their car breaks down or they catch a cold. Until they grasp the connection, they believe they can afford to cheer/vote for anybody, no matter how daft.

  300. Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.
    I think that’s actually the root of the problem. They were watching someone playing a part. In a show.
    A show that they simply do not connect to things happening in their lives. Any more than which team wins a sports contest impacts whether their car breaks down or they catch a cold. Until they grasp the connection, they believe they can afford to cheer/vote for anybody, no matter how daft.

  301. A show that they simply do not connect to things happening in their lives
    It connects to something happening in their heads.

  302. A show that they simply do not connect to things happening in their lives
    It connects to something happening in their heads.

  303. I think that’s actually the root of the problem. They were watching someone playing a part. In a show.
    Interesting point.
    Keep in mind that average intelligence is average. (Yes, I know – “intelligence” – another conversation, blah blah blah.) S’plains a lot. They don’t have the wherewithal to connect the dots until something horrible happens to them. THEN THEY DO RESEARCH!
    Sorry to be condescending, but the smart ones among them can come here and defend the tribe.

  304. I think that’s actually the root of the problem. They were watching someone playing a part. In a show.
    Interesting point.
    Keep in mind that average intelligence is average. (Yes, I know – “intelligence” – another conversation, blah blah blah.) S’plains a lot. They don’t have the wherewithal to connect the dots until something horrible happens to them. THEN THEY DO RESEARCH!
    Sorry to be condescending, but the smart ones among them can come here and defend the tribe.

  307. the smart ones among them can come here and defend the tribe.
    I’m guessing that the smart ones among them have contrived to save enough to fund their comfortable retirement. Plus enough (perhaps) to cover medical care — if they actually know what that would cost. As a result, they don’t have to recognize that there might be a problem.
    That’s exclusive, naturally, of the ones who are flat out grifters. Including, but by no means limited to, Trump and company. They may know what the impact on their supporters would be; they just don’t give a damn.

  308. the smart ones among them can come here and defend the tribe.
    I’m guessing that the smart ones among them have contrived to save enough to fund their comfortable retirement. Plus enough (perhaps) to cover medical care — if they actually know what that would cost. As a result, they don’t have to recognize that there might be a problem.
    That’s exclusive, naturally, of the ones who are flat out grifters. Including, but by no means limited to, Trump and company. They may know what the impact on their supporters would be; they just don’t give a damn.

  309. What percentage of GOP voters would, given their diet of RW ‘news’ blame the Dems, if SCOTUS took SS etc. away?

  310. What percentage of GOP voters would, given their diet of RW ‘news’ blame the Dems, if SCOTUS took SS etc. away?

  311. Hi All, been staying away from here, despite McT’s invocation of my name. (Why is it a big thing to say ‘keep my name out of your mouth’ I mean, I understand the sentiment, but still) and away from the interweebs in general because it’s not great for the blood pressure. However, I wouldn’t want to disappoint, so….
    GftNC asks
    how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    Cleek’s answer is good, but for more, you need not go further than McT’s invocation of nous and I as ‘hard left’. I’ll take him at his word (though someone may want to explain that concept to him) that he truly believes that nous and I are ‘hard left’ and I imagine he thinks that academics like us are taking the US down the garden path. All that is in the absence of any actual things like quotes or shit like that which academics do. I hate to say, but I’m pretty milquetoast in my leftishness (it is liberal japonicus, not leftist japonicut) but never mind. Keep saying it and it becomes true, if only to the person saying it. Mantras are like that.
    This will allow him to argue that Trump would have gotten thrashed if us academics hadn’t been shoving Marxist intersectionalism down the throats of all those Republican voters. It’s all our fault. This also allows him to tut tut about Trump’s excesses (‘never really liked the man’ he mutters) while being able to keep his place at the top of the slippery social ladder.
    As I’ve said before, McT is probably nice to people he meets on the street, plays well with his grandkids, maybe even tosses the odd dollar to someone down on his luck. But when it is pointed out that there are some structural problems with US society, he loses it. I don’t know if it is because he thinks it might erode his position at the top of the food chain or that he just hates to admit error.
    Absent any actual discussion of what these hard left ideas are, it is interesting to consider what hard left ideas that this virus has revealed. We might have been better off with a UBI. Looking at this election, is it hard left to suggest that there be a national standard? Don’t get me started on some, any kind of national health insurance. But, in McT’s mind, every medical advance was done by private people worried about their bottom line. Though I’m still trying to understand why that private enterprise hasn’t rushed in to fill the gap. Curious that.
    Speaking of that, I wanted to pull up exactly what he said in reply to this 18 April post I made
    https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/04/looking-for-death
    (fyi look at the overwrought title of this thread. Jesus. We are now at almost 5x the number of American dead from Vietnam btw. Jesus yourself.)
    But I got sidetracked by this bon mot from him in reponse to Russell’s following observation
    Watch for COVID spikes in MI, OH, and elsewhere over the next two weeks. KY is already seeing it.
    And McT opined
    That said, ISTM that the single largest drivers of the Covid spread are dense population centers and mass transit. People who have no choice but to ride an elevator to come and go to and from home or to get on a train or a bus are the most exposed. The more spread out people are, the less disease. We are seeing that in Houston–apartment-heavy districts have the highest rates of infection, single family areas the lowest.
    I’m pretty sure I’m right about this, and I’m pretty sure this ‘crowding’ phenomena is going to have to be factored in to long term climate change planning. If there is a plus side, one thing we are learning from this crisis is that many of us do not have to leave an urban foot print or get in their car everyday to live and work. On average, I’m in my car 3 times every two weeks for about an hour each time. Previously, I put 30,000 miles a year, 2,500 a month, every year, every month. Now, less than 300 a month.
    I’m thinking my experience isn’t unique and I’m wondering what tweaks we can make as a country to promote more–a lot more–telecommuting.
    I’ll leave it to you to talk to folks in those jam-packed states like North and South Dakota, urban conurbations and consumers of mass transit that they are, to explain how your surety about correctness holds up. There are some interesting things to think about, but we first have to acknowledge that you are right every time, all the time.
    The frightening thing to me is that Trump would have probably won if he had done something, anything, to deal with Covid. While the crisis apparently made some people realize Dump’s true nature, a marginally more competent response would have had him win comfortably. And McT would have tut tutted his way to where he thinks the center is, like the clown in the middle of a three ring circus. Don’t ever change.

  312. Hi All, been staying away from here, despite McT’s invocation of my name. (Why is it a big thing to say ‘keep my name out of your mouth’ I mean, I understand the sentiment, but still) and away from the interweebs in general because it’s not great for the blood pressure. However, I wouldn’t want to disappoint, so….
    GftNC asks
    how is it possible that such vast numbers of people, after three and a half years of Trump, are still prepared to vote for him?
    Cleek’s answer is good, but for more, you need not go further than McT’s invocation of nous and I as ‘hard left’. I’ll take him at his word (though someone may want to explain that concept to him) that he truly believes that nous and I are ‘hard left’ and I imagine he thinks that academics like us are taking the US down the garden path. All that is in the absence of any actual things like quotes or shit like that which academics do. I hate to say, but I’m pretty milquetoast in my leftishness (it is liberal japonicus, not leftist japonicut) but never mind. Keep saying it and it becomes true, if only to the person saying it. Mantras are like that.
    This will allow him to argue that Trump would have gotten thrashed if us academics hadn’t been shoving Marxist intersectionalism down the throats of all those Republican voters. It’s all our fault. This also allows him to tut tut about Trump’s excesses (‘never really liked the man’ he mutters) while being able to keep his place at the top of the slippery social ladder.
    As I’ve said before, McT is probably nice to people he meets on the street, plays well with his grandkids, maybe even tosses the odd dollar to someone down on his luck. But when it is pointed out that there are some structural problems with US society, he loses it. I don’t know if it is because he thinks it might erode his position at the top of the food chain or that he just hates to admit error.
    Absent any actual discussion of what these hard left ideas are, it is interesting to consider what hard left ideas that this virus has revealed. We might have been better off with a UBI. Looking at this election, is it hard left to suggest that there be a national standard? Don’t get me started on some, any kind of national health insurance. But, in McT’s mind, every medical advance was done by private people worried about their bottom line. Though I’m still trying to understand why that private enterprise hasn’t rushed in to fill the gap. Curious that.
    Speaking of that, I wanted to pull up exactly what he said in reply to this 18 April post I made
    https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2020/04/looking-for-death
    (fyi look at the overwrought title of this thread. Jesus. We are now at almost 5x the number of American dead from Vietnam btw. Jesus yourself.)
    But I got sidetracked by this bon mot from him in reponse to Russell’s following observation
    Watch for COVID spikes in MI, OH, and elsewhere over the next two weeks. KY is already seeing it.
    And McT opined
    That said, ISTM that the single largest drivers of the Covid spread are dense population centers and mass transit. People who have no choice but to ride an elevator to come and go to and from home or to get on a train or a bus are the most exposed. The more spread out people are, the less disease. We are seeing that in Houston–apartment-heavy districts have the highest rates of infection, single family areas the lowest.
    I’m pretty sure I’m right about this, and I’m pretty sure this ‘crowding’ phenomena is going to have to be factored in to long term climate change planning. If there is a plus side, one thing we are learning from this crisis is that many of us do not have to leave an urban foot print or get in their car everyday to live and work. On average, I’m in my car 3 times every two weeks for about an hour each time. Previously, I put 30,000 miles a year, 2,500 a month, every year, every month. Now, less than 300 a month.
    I’m thinking my experience isn’t unique and I’m wondering what tweaks we can make as a country to promote more–a lot more–telecommuting.
    I’ll leave it to you to talk to folks in those jam-packed states like North and South Dakota, urban conurbations and consumers of mass transit that they are, to explain how your surety about correctness holds up. There are some interesting things to think about, but we first have to acknowledge that you are right every time, all the time.
    The frightening thing to me is that Trump would have probably won if he had done something, anything, to deal with Covid. While the crisis apparently made some people realize Dump’s true nature, a marginally more competent response would have had him win comfortably. And McT would have tut tutted his way to where he thinks the center is, like the clown in the middle of a three ring circus. Don’t ever change.

  313. Bannon proposes murdering Fauci and Wray, both of whom and their families, as is Leslie Stahl and her family, among others, are already under armed guard from previous death threats from subhuman savage conservatives ordered up by the White House:
    https://www.the-sun.com/news/1752419/trump-adviser-steve-bannon-fauci-fbi-wray-beheaded/
    Right, no one listens to Trump?
    Tens of millions of delusional death-loving pig shit hang on his every word and hanging them is what they deserve.
    Fauci would be perfectly within his rights to track Bannon down and shoot him in his head in self-defense.

  314. Bannon proposes murdering Fauci and Wray, both of whom and their families, as is Leslie Stahl and her family, among others, are already under armed guard from previous death threats from subhuman savage conservatives ordered up by the White House:
    https://www.the-sun.com/news/1752419/trump-adviser-steve-bannon-fauci-fbi-wray-beheaded/
    Right, no one listens to Trump?
    Tens of millions of delusional death-loving pig shit hang on his every word and hanging them is what they deserve.
    Fauci would be perfectly within his rights to track Bannon down and shoot him in his head in self-defense.

  317. “Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.”
    This level of nuance demonstrates the fundamental problem we face. I half the country decided that, of the two choices offered Trump was the better of the two. More women(white and women of color), blacks and Latinx voted for him than last time because the other option seemed worse. Fewer white men voted for him, pretty much across demographic boundaries, because they just couldn’t take him anymore.
    He won by a few thousand votes across the rust belt last time and lost by a few thousand votes across the rust belt this time. Both he and Biden probably got more votes than he and Clinton in the last election. *shrug*
    There are practical reasons people vote, denying that they exist assures that we will continue being divided.
    Just because you think Biden meets your view of a better option doesn’t mean 100 million other people see him that way. I would point you to thousands of women who think he is more lecherous and disgusting than Trump. Blah blah.
    After all that ask and forth is done the fundamental disagreement is in this statement:
    To date, they have managed the mental gymnastics required to support a party dedicated to leaving them impoverished — presumably by being unable to believe anyone wouldĀ reallyĀ do that. But when the money stopped, it would be impossible to ignore.
    To me that statement defines Democrats, to you Republicans. It is, in the end, a question of whether we raise people from poverty or keep them there. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    I think Democrats would say Republicans don’t care about the poor or the middle class as long as the rich get richer. I dont see that at a practical level.
    All the hyperbole and name calling around other things just masks these fundamental differences in how we move the country forward.
    And yes, the country as a whole is pretty evenly divided, except California but that too shall pass.

  318. “Half the country watched DJT play the part of POTUS for the last four years, and then decided that hell yeah, they wanted four more years of exactly that.”
    This level of nuance demonstrates the fundamental problem we face. I half the country decided that, of the two choices offered Trump was the better of the two. More women(white and women of color), blacks and Latinx voted for him than last time because the other option seemed worse. Fewer white men voted for him, pretty much across demographic boundaries, because they just couldn’t take him anymore.
    He won by a few thousand votes across the rust belt last time and lost by a few thousand votes across the rust belt this time. Both he and Biden probably got more votes than he and Clinton in the last election. *shrug*
    There are practical reasons people vote, denying that they exist assures that we will continue being divided.
    Just because you think Biden meets your view of a better option doesn’t mean 100 million other people see him that way. I would point you to thousands of women who think he is more lecherous and disgusting than Trump. Blah blah.
    After all that ask and forth is done the fundamental disagreement is in this statement:
    To date, they have managed the mental gymnastics required to support a party dedicated to leaving them impoverished — presumably by being unable to believe anyone wouldĀ reallyĀ do that. But when the money stopped, it would be impossible to ignore.
    To me that statement defines Democrats, to you Republicans. It is, in the end, a question of whether we raise people from poverty or keep them there. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    I think Democrats would say Republicans don’t care about the poor or the middle class as long as the rich get richer. I dont see that at a practical level.
    All the hyperbole and name calling around other things just masks these fundamental differences in how we move the country forward.
    And yes, the country as a whole is pretty evenly divided, except California but that too shall pass.

  321. GftNC, I stop in now and then but find I have little new to add. I hope you are, and everyone is, well.
    (I did move to Florida permanently, the sliver of upside from Covid is I actually found a completely remote job. Which greatly interferes with my commenting time)

  322. GftNC, I stop in now and then but find I have little new to add. I hope you are, and everyone is, well.
    (I did move to Florida permanently, the sliver of upside from Covid is I actually found a completely remote job. Which greatly interferes with my commenting time)

  323. Me too. What GftNC said.
    Not so much this malignant lesion on the body politic:
    https://www.mediamatters.org/newt-gingrich/fox-news-newt-gingrich-calls-bill-barr-arrest-election-workers
    I do hope the election workers Gingrich is siccing federal jackbooted terrorists on are suitably and heavily armed as the NRA and the Republican Party and the gun manufacturing lobby have been urging all of us to be for nigh on conservative bullshit eternity for this precise eventuality.
    Do ya think the election workers who have been busting their asses to implement this piece of shit American election apparatus will garner support from the Bundys, the Oaf Keepers, and such in the face of this federal overreach?
    Hanh?

  324. Me too. What GftNC said.
    Not so much this malignant lesion on the body politic:
    https://www.mediamatters.org/newt-gingrich/fox-news-newt-gingrich-calls-bill-barr-arrest-election-workers
    I do hope the election workers Gingrich is siccing federal jackbooted terrorists on are suitably and heavily armed as the NRA and the Republican Party and the gun manufacturing lobby have been urging all of us to be for nigh on conservative bullshit eternity for this precise eventuality.
    Do ya think the election workers who have been busting their asses to implement this piece of shit American election apparatus will garner support from the Bundys, the Oaf Keepers, and such in the face of this federal overreach?
    Hanh?

  325. I would point you to thousands of women who think he is more lecherous and disgusting than Trump. Blah blah.
    and i can point to thousands of women who think the earth is flat.

  326. I would point you to thousands of women who think he is more lecherous and disgusting than Trump. Blah blah.
    and i can point to thousands of women who think the earth is flat.

  327. Marty, stay safe and well.
    Apart from that, cleek thanks for that reminder that the Fairness Doctrine would have no effect on Fox.
    Also, wrs, particularly this:
    I am under no illusions that Trump and the Trump years are anything like an anomaly.
    The US is a lot of things, and one of those things, in no small measure, is Donald Trump.
    We are going to see a lot of calls to “come together”, and to “let the nation heal”. We aren’t together, and we aren’t coming together, and show no sign of doing so in any foreseeable time frame. Neither are we healing, I’m not sure we even know how broken we are, or what the nature of our internal disease is.
    And on the offchance that any of our lurkers misjudge this for schadenfreude, I would add that I don’t think we (the UK, or maybe even Europe) are that far behind.

  328. Marty, stay safe and well.
    Apart from that, cleek thanks for that reminder that the Fairness Doctrine would have no effect on Fox.
    Also, wrs, particularly this:
    I am under no illusions that Trump and the Trump years are anything like an anomaly.
    The US is a lot of things, and one of those things, in no small measure, is Donald Trump.
    We are going to see a lot of calls to “come together”, and to “let the nation heal”. We aren’t together, and we aren’t coming together, and show no sign of doing so in any foreseeable time frame. Neither are we healing, I’m not sure we even know how broken we are, or what the nature of our internal disease is.
    And on the offchance that any of our lurkers misjudge this for schadenfreude, I would add that I don’t think we (the UK, or maybe even Europe) are that far behind.

  329. Stop pointing at thousands of women, you two!
    It’s rude.
    So, even though Marty has a totally remote full-time job, he can still find time to point at thousands of women?
    šŸ˜‰

  330. Stop pointing at thousands of women, you two!
    It’s rude.
    So, even though Marty has a totally remote full-time job, he can still find time to point at thousands of women?
    šŸ˜‰

  331. “[I] can point to thousands of women who think the earth is flat.”
    I could point to tens of thousands of MAGAts that think the Earth is flat, but the curvature of the Earth gets in the way.
    I’d be glad to push ’em off the edge, though. I’m just evil that way.

  332. “[I] can point to thousands of women who think the earth is flat.”
    I could point to tens of thousands of MAGAts that think the Earth is flat, but the curvature of the Earth gets in the way.
    I’d be glad to push ’em off the edge, though. I’m just evil that way.

  333. It is, in the end, a question of whether we raise people from poverty or keep them there.
    That is one question, among many.
    I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    That explains quite a lot.
    I think Democrats would say Republicans don’t care about the poor or the middle class as long as the rich get richer.
    That’s certainly something some (D)’s would say. The (D)’s comprise a range of points of view, on that topic and others.
    I dont see that at a practical level.
    I certainly see the outcome, regardless of what the intent was.
    All the hyperbole and name calling around other things just masks these fundamental differences in how we move the country forward.
    The fundamental differences remain.

  334. It is, in the end, a question of whether we raise people from poverty or keep them there.
    That is one question, among many.
    I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    That explains quite a lot.
    I think Democrats would say Republicans don’t care about the poor or the middle class as long as the rich get richer.
    That’s certainly something some (D)’s would say. The (D)’s comprise a range of points of view, on that topic and others.
    I dont see that at a practical level.
    I certainly see the outcome, regardless of what the intent was.
    All the hyperbole and name calling around other things just masks these fundamental differences in how we move the country forward.
    The fundamental differences remain.

  335. I’ll follow up a bit more, briefly.
    Your comment above (“you” being Marty) ignores the uniquely horrible qualities of DJT as a person and a POTUS. As well as the raw power style of McConnell’s time as Senate majority leader.
    Differences of point of view are one thing. Even strongly held differences in point of view.
    “F*** you, we’re gonna do what we want, because we can” as a style of governance is a different matter.
    Ignoring that just masks fundamental differences that go well beyond questions of “how to move people into the middle class”.
    And FWIW, the question of how to move people into the middle class is not so hard. You pay them. Then they are in the middle class.

  336. I’ll follow up a bit more, briefly.
    Your comment above (“you” being Marty) ignores the uniquely horrible qualities of DJT as a person and a POTUS. As well as the raw power style of McConnell’s time as Senate majority leader.
    Differences of point of view are one thing. Even strongly held differences in point of view.
    “F*** you, we’re gonna do what we want, because we can” as a style of governance is a different matter.
    Ignoring that just masks fundamental differences that go well beyond questions of “how to move people into the middle class”.
    And FWIW, the question of how to move people into the middle class is not so hard. You pay them. Then they are in the middle class.

  337. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    I’ve heard this before, but only from rich Republicans. It seems to me a significant belief, in that it assumes bad faith, and gives absolutely no credence to the idea that your political opponents might have benign intentions for their constituents or the country. So this belief relies absolutely on the demonisation of one’s opponents, and the refusal to believe that they are honourable people who only disagree on methods to achieve improved national wellbeing.

  338. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    I’ve heard this before, but only from rich Republicans. It seems to me a significant belief, in that it assumes bad faith, and gives absolutely no credence to the idea that your political opponents might have benign intentions for their constituents or the country. So this belief relies absolutely on the demonisation of one’s opponents, and the refusal to believe that they are honourable people who only disagree on methods to achieve improved national wellbeing.

  339. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    golly, it’s always exciting to learn new things about myself!
    Biden leads in PA and GA, currently.

  340. I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.
    golly, it’s always exciting to learn new things about myself!
    Biden leads in PA and GA, currently.

  341. Previous comment very tautologous, sorry. I meant to convey that either side which demonises the other in this way is part of the problem. The example in question demonises the Dems, but this phenomenon is part of the terrible development which has driven Americans of both political persuasions into their individual laagers.

  342. Previous comment very tautologous, sorry. I meant to convey that either side which demonises the other in this way is part of the problem. The example in question demonises the Dems, but this phenomenon is part of the terrible development which has driven Americans of both political persuasions into their individual laagers.

  343. apparently the GOP’s plan to move people into the middle class is to make the lower class as miserable as possible.
    a very “…until morale improves” kind of approach.
    i suspect it doesn’t work.

  344. apparently the GOP’s plan to move people into the middle class is to make the lower class as miserable as possible.
    a very “…until morale improves” kind of approach.
    i suspect it doesn’t work.

  345. I realise my “both sides are capable of doing it” post is absolutely not right for this particular moment! So, as a complete change and for light relief, I give you this list of possible tabloid headlines on the election result (UK tabloids specialise in puns):
    ā€¢ The Lying King
    ā€¢ Unpresidented
    ā€¢ Lord of the Lies
    ā€¢ Donald Dumped
    ā€¢ Down in the Trumps
    ā€¢ Game over, combover
    ā€¢ POTUS Out Of Our Misery
    ā€¢ Orange Is The New Sacked

  346. I realise my “both sides are capable of doing it” post is absolutely not right for this particular moment! So, as a complete change and for light relief, I give you this list of possible tabloid headlines on the election result (UK tabloids specialise in puns):
    ā€¢ The Lying King
    ā€¢ Unpresidented
    ā€¢ Lord of the Lies
    ā€¢ Donald Dumped
    ā€¢ Down in the Trumps
    ā€¢ Game over, combover
    ā€¢ POTUS Out Of Our Misery
    ā€¢ Orange Is The New Sacked

  347. golly, it’s always exciting to learn new things about myself!
    In fairness to Marty, I assume he’s not talking about rank-and-file Democrats, but rather those in positions of significant influence. Similarly, many rank-and-file Republicans are not remotely rich, so I have to think at least some of them are not in favor of the rich getting richer at their expense.
    Now that I’ve dispensed my meager allotment of fairness, I’d say that Democratic policies do far more to help people in the lower income brackets than do Republican policies, which tend to put a heavy finger on the scales in favor of those who already hold disproportionate wealth in this country. Therein lies the rub.

  348. golly, it’s always exciting to learn new things about myself!
    In fairness to Marty, I assume he’s not talking about rank-and-file Democrats, but rather those in positions of significant influence. Similarly, many rank-and-file Republicans are not remotely rich, so I have to think at least some of them are not in favor of the rich getting richer at their expense.
    Now that I’ve dispensed my meager allotment of fairness, I’d say that Democratic policies do far more to help people in the lower income brackets than do Republican policies, which tend to put a heavy finger on the scales in favor of those who already hold disproportionate wealth in this country. Therein lies the rub.

  349. the GOP’s plan to move people into the middle class
    The GOP’s plan for improving people’s lives appears to be removing any impediment or constraint on the free play of market forces, and specifically in a capitalist model.
    That has been the doctrine for the last 40-50 years. In general it has resulted in flat to negligible improvement in real wages and household wealth for workers, and astronomical increases in the wealth held by a very small percent of the population.
    Perhaps it was worth a try. We’ve tried it. The outcomes are what they are.

  350. the GOP’s plan to move people into the middle class
    The GOP’s plan for improving people’s lives appears to be removing any impediment or constraint on the free play of market forces, and specifically in a capitalist model.
    That has been the doctrine for the last 40-50 years. In general it has resulted in flat to negligible improvement in real wages and household wealth for workers, and astronomical increases in the wealth held by a very small percent of the population.
    Perhaps it was worth a try. We’ve tried it. The outcomes are what they are.

  351. If you got the money, you deserved the money. This is obviously so because you got the money.
    Otherwise, you have failed.

  352. If you got the money, you deserved the money. This is obviously so because you got the money.
    Otherwise, you have failed.

  353. russell’s ability (eg @ 10.26) to be measured and rational, even in the face of provocation, never ceases to amaze me. I truly wish more people (including me) were capable of this.

  354. russell’s ability (eg @ 10.26) to be measured and rational, even in the face of provocation, never ceases to amaze me. I truly wish more people (including me) were capable of this.

  357. I see no sign that the GOP wants free play of market forces. They have no plan to abolish patent and copyright monopolies, end (agricultural) subsidies, end bank bail-outs, privatise the military, end distorting tax exemptions (eg for healthcare)…
    What the GOP wants is unrestricted freedom for capitalists to exploit workers. Marty is quite right that this makes it easier for people with a talent for exploitation to get rich. What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.

  358. I see no sign that the GOP wants free play of market forces. They have no plan to abolish patent and copyright monopolies, end (agricultural) subsidies, end bank bail-outs, privatise the military, end distorting tax exemptions (eg for healthcare)…
    What the GOP wants is unrestricted freedom for capitalists to exploit workers. Marty is quite right that this makes it easier for people with a talent for exploitation to get rich. What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.

  359. “What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.”
    There you go, denigrating someone’s religion.
    SHEESH!

  360. “What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.”
    There you go, denigrating someone’s religion.
    SHEESH!

  365. privatise the military
    If you do that, you are also inevitably privatizing the decision about whether to start a war as well. Even though there’s no way to assure that your opponent will be inclined, or able to, focus his response so narrowly. Kind of hard on everybody else.
    And you presumably are privatizing the police as well. Which is to say, you have achieved the ultra libertarian fantasy of no government. A condition which I would estimate would last mere minutes before some folks got together and created one. Although arguably the guy who has hired up a private army is a government — specifically, a monarch.

  366. privatise the military
    If you do that, you are also inevitably privatizing the decision about whether to start a war as well. Even though there’s no way to assure that your opponent will be inclined, or able to, focus his response so narrowly. Kind of hard on everybody else.
    And you presumably are privatizing the police as well. Which is to say, you have achieved the ultra libertarian fantasy of no government. A condition which I would estimate would last mere minutes before some folks got together and created one. Although arguably the guy who has hired up a private army is a government — specifically, a monarch.

  369. Don’t know if I read sapient correctly, but what I took away from “Not sure about that one” is “Not sure that (R)’s don’t actually want to privatize the military”.
    See also the move toward contractors – including combatants-for-hire – during Afghanistan and Gulf II.
    And, see also the influence of private military contractors in decisions of going to war, or not.

  370. Don’t know if I read sapient correctly, but what I took away from “Not sure about that one” is “Not sure that (R)’s don’t actually want to privatize the military”.
    See also the move toward contractors – including combatants-for-hire – during Afghanistan and Gulf II.
    And, see also the influence of private military contractors in decisions of going to war, or not.

  371. What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.
    In Galt’s Gulch nobody cleans the toilets.

  372. What doesn’t make sense is his implicit assumption that everyone can get rich this way at the same time.
    In Galt’s Gulch nobody cleans the toilets.

  373. Don’t know if I read sapient correctly, but what I took away from “Not sure about that one” is “Not sure that (R)’s don’t actually want to privatize the military”.
    Yes, you read my comment correctly. Thank you!

  374. I came across this.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/trump-trumpism-american-life/2020/11/05/93a08a4e-1f7d-11eb-ba21-f2f001f0554b_story.html
    Including

    He also gave our unique brand of ugliness ā€” rooted in racism, exceptionalism, recklessness, arrogance and a tendency to bully our way to power ā€” a name. Trumpism is now rooted in the lexicon, and although white supremacy may be the better, more clinical term for what ails America, Trumpism is a useful, colloquial alternative.

    People have objected, loudly, to being called “racists.” But I’m betting they will have no problem, indeed will be proud, being called “Trumpists.” At least for a while.

  375. Don’t know if I read sapient correctly, but what I took away from “Not sure about that one” is “Not sure that (R)’s don’t actually want to privatize the military”.
    Yes, you read my comment correctly. Thank you!

  376. I came across this.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/trump-trumpism-american-life/2020/11/05/93a08a4e-1f7d-11eb-ba21-f2f001f0554b_story.html
    Including

    He also gave our unique brand of ugliness ā€” rooted in racism, exceptionalism, recklessness, arrogance and a tendency to bully our way to power ā€” a name. Trumpism is now rooted in the lexicon, and although white supremacy may be the better, more clinical term for what ails America, Trumpism is a useful, colloquial alternative.

    People have objected, loudly, to being called “racists.” But I’m betting they will have no problem, indeed will be proud, being called “Trumpists.” At least for a while.

  379. And yes, the country as a whole is pretty evenly divided, except California but that too shall pass.
    Just a note, from someone who lives here. What we are arguably seeing is that rejection of ticket splitting doesn’t quite work like we think. Yes, presidential candidates can drag along down-ballot candidates of their party. But it is equally possible for the state of a state party to impact how well a presidential candidate does there.
    California’s Republican Party has gone so far off the deep end that it now has fewer members than “no party preference,” let alone Democrats. Which is why Biden got three times as many votes here as Trump.
    It’s possible my party could return to sanity here. Heaven knows the Democrats (not to mention the state generally) would benefit from a viable alternative party. But for the moment, there’s no sign of that happening. So no, “that too shall pass” isn’t in prospect.

  380. And yes, the country as a whole is pretty evenly divided, except California but that too shall pass.
    Just a note, from someone who lives here. What we are arguably seeing is that rejection of ticket splitting doesn’t quite work like we think. Yes, presidential candidates can drag along down-ballot candidates of their party. But it is equally possible for the state of a state party to impact how well a presidential candidate does there.
    California’s Republican Party has gone so far off the deep end that it now has fewer members than “no party preference,” let alone Democrats. Which is why Biden got three times as many votes here as Trump.
    It’s possible my party could return to sanity here. Heaven knows the Democrats (not to mention the state generally) would benefit from a viable alternative party. But for the moment, there’s no sign of that happening. So no, “that too shall pass” isn’t in prospect.

  381. You can’t claim to have a properly free market when the government is shovelling out $150bn a year in military procurement spending to companies it likes.

  382. You can’t claim to have a properly free market when the government is shovelling out $150bn a year in military procurement spending to companies it likes.

  383. Just something to keep in mind (from FiveThirtyEight):

    NATHANIEL RAKICH
    NOV. 6, 12:12 PM
    It will be weeks before we know the final popular vote, but one thing is certain: This will be the seventh time in the last eight presidential elections that Democrats have won the popular vote. George W. Bush in 2004 was the only Republican to do so during that span.

    I can’t help but wonder where we would be if we had been electing the POTUS by popular vote for the last however-many years.

  384. Just something to keep in mind (from FiveThirtyEight):

    NATHANIEL RAKICH
    NOV. 6, 12:12 PM
    It will be weeks before we know the final popular vote, but one thing is certain: This will be the seventh time in the last eight presidential elections that Democrats have won the popular vote. George W. Bush in 2004 was the only Republican to do so during that span.

    I can’t help but wonder where we would be if we had been electing the POTUS by popular vote for the last however-many years.

  385. ā€œ I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.ā€
    Cynicism about politicians is often justified, but this particular attack is both common and self refuting in its absurdity Do you really think Biden would be upset if his economic policies eliminated poverty and moved everyone into the middle class? Would it make it harder for him or Kamala to win in 2024?
    Most politicians want at least some degree of economic prosperity to occur during their term of office so they can take credit for it. But they might favor helping their corporate donors more or they might be wedded to some ideology that will prevent the economic prosperity they would otherwise favor. They might also be looking forward to a lucrative career as a lobbyist or going on the lecture circuit, which might effect their decisions. But nobody thinks ā€œ I better keep my voters mired in poverty or they wonā€™t vote for me.ā€

  386. ā€œ I believe Democrats fear that actually moving people into the middle class destroys their base.ā€
    Cynicism about politicians is often justified, but this particular attack is both common and self refuting in its absurdity Do you really think Biden would be upset if his economic policies eliminated poverty and moved everyone into the middle class? Would it make it harder for him or Kamala to win in 2024?
    Most politicians want at least some degree of economic prosperity to occur during their term of office so they can take credit for it. But they might favor helping their corporate donors more or they might be wedded to some ideology that will prevent the economic prosperity they would otherwise favor. They might also be looking forward to a lucrative career as a lobbyist or going on the lecture circuit, which might effect their decisions. But nobody thinks ā€œ I better keep my voters mired in poverty or they wonā€™t vote for me.ā€

  387. Also, my understanding is that nonvoters tend to be poor. The Nyt had a piece on that recently. There were people of various ethnicities, definitely at the lower end of the economic spectrum and they mostly felt like voting didnā€™t matter and that nobody cared about their lives. I wish they would vote, but that would require them to think that voting will make their lives better. The Republican claim that this is the Democratic voter base is backwardsā€” they are nobodyā€™s voter base.

  388. Also, my understanding is that nonvoters tend to be poor. The Nyt had a piece on that recently. There were people of various ethnicities, definitely at the lower end of the economic spectrum and they mostly felt like voting didnā€™t matter and that nobody cared about their lives. I wish they would vote, but that would require them to think that voting will make their lives better. The Republican claim that this is the Democratic voter base is backwardsā€” they are nobodyā€™s voter base.

  391. You can’t claim to have a properly free market when the government is shovelling out $150bn a year in military procurement spending to companies it likes.
    that’s gonna change.
    right on schedule, as predicted by literally everybody, the deficit hawks are back:

    Senate committee talk from [Lindsey] Graham: If we keep the Senate which I think we will and I become Budget chairman. I’d like to create a dialogue about how can we finally begin to address the debt.

  392. You can’t claim to have a properly free market when the government is shovelling out $150bn a year in military procurement spending to companies it likes.
    that’s gonna change.
    right on schedule, as predicted by literally everybody, the deficit hawks are back:

    Senate committee talk from [Lindsey] Graham: If we keep the Senate which I think we will and I become Budget chairman. I’d like to create a dialogue about how can we finally begin to address the debt.

  395. More intersectional Marxist cancel culture:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/11/06/philadelphia-police-arrest-armed-men-convention-center-votes-counted/6187189002/

    Philadelphia’s ABC affiliate reported that police officers were told “a group” was “driving up from Virginia in a Hummer to unleash an attack at the Convention Center.”
    Police declined to comment on the report, and no other information was available from the department. An investigation from Philadelphia Police and the FBI was ongoing, the department said.
    Social media posts circulated Friday morning showing the Hummer still parked where it was found. Photos shared by a Philadelphia Inquirer reporter showed the vehicle with Virginia plates and QAnon stickers on it. QAnon is a baseless, far-right conspiracy theory that alleges without evidence that President Donald Trump is combating a satanic “deep state” apparatus that supports a child sex trafficking ring.

    (Sorry for biting on your style, cleek, but it’s just too fun not to do.)

  396. More intersectional Marxist cancel culture:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/11/06/philadelphia-police-arrest-armed-men-convention-center-votes-counted/6187189002/

    Philadelphia’s ABC affiliate reported that police officers were told “a group” was “driving up from Virginia in a Hummer to unleash an attack at the Convention Center.”
    Police declined to comment on the report, and no other information was available from the department. An investigation from Philadelphia Police and the FBI was ongoing, the department said.
    Social media posts circulated Friday morning showing the Hummer still parked where it was found. Photos shared by a Philadelphia Inquirer reporter showed the vehicle with Virginia plates and QAnon stickers on it. QAnon is a baseless, far-right conspiracy theory that alleges without evidence that President Donald Trump is combating a satanic “deep state” apparatus that supports a child sex trafficking ring.

    (Sorry for biting on your style, cleek, but it’s just too fun not to do.)

  397. Following up on wj and California. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.

  398. Following up on wj and California. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.

  401. QAnon is a baseless, far-right conspiracy theory that alleges without evidence that President Donald Trump is combating a satanic “deep state” apparatus that supports a child sex trafficking ring.

    USA Today gettin sassy!

  402. QAnon is a baseless, far-right conspiracy theory that alleges without evidence that President Donald Trump is combating a satanic “deep state” apparatus that supports a child sex trafficking ring.

    USA Today gettin sassy!

  403. Graham: If we keep the Senate which I think we will and I become Budget chairman. I’d like to create a dialogue about how can we finally begin to address the debt.
    I think this is a fine idea. Start with repealing the tax cut from 3 years ago. Then look at raising top rates further.
    Oh wait, I guess that isn’t what he intends to do. But it should be.

  404. Graham: If we keep the Senate which I think we will and I become Budget chairman. I’d like to create a dialogue about how can we finally begin to address the debt.
    I think this is a fine idea. Start with repealing the tax cut from 3 years ago. Then look at raising top rates further.
    Oh wait, I guess that isn’t what he intends to do. But it should be.

  405. California. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.
    Which is another way to say that a sane conservative party could do quite well in California. But since we don’t have one of those on offer….

  406. California. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.
    Which is another way to say that a sane conservative party could do quite well in California. But since we don’t have one of those on offer….

  407. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.
    In 2018 Utah elected Republicans but passed initiatives to allow medical marijuana, to take the ACA expansion of Medicaid, and to have an independent redistricting commission.

  408. It is a place where 2/3 of voters pull the Dem lever for elective offices, but will simultaneously vote down many progressive ballot initiatives, as this recent election so dismally demonstrates.
    In 2018 Utah elected Republicans but passed initiatives to allow medical marijuana, to take the ACA expansion of Medicaid, and to have an independent redistricting commission.

  413. Does anybody else wish, as I do, that headline writers would stop using phrases like “Biden Takes Lead in …” as if they’re watching a horse race live?
    The race is over. Counting the votes is like watching a video of the race frame by frame.
    The video is a fixed record of an already-finished event. Nobody has seen the video all the way through yet, so there may be some sense in which it’s valid to talk about the probability of this or that outcome changing as we see more and more frames. But it’s a bit analogous to pontificating on the probability that the 100,000th digit of pi is a 6. You can say it’s 10%, but only if you mean “That’s the probability that we’ll find a 6 there when we look it up”.
    This has been another installment of “Linguistic Conservative Airs Grievance”. Sorry, couldn’t wait until Festivus.
    –TP

  414. Does anybody else wish, as I do, that headline writers would stop using phrases like “Biden Takes Lead in …” as if they’re watching a horse race live?
    The race is over. Counting the votes is like watching a video of the race frame by frame.
    The video is a fixed record of an already-finished event. Nobody has seen the video all the way through yet, so there may be some sense in which it’s valid to talk about the probability of this or that outcome changing as we see more and more frames. But it’s a bit analogous to pontificating on the probability that the 100,000th digit of pi is a 6. You can say it’s 10%, but only if you mean “That’s the probability that we’ll find a 6 there when we look it up”.
    This has been another installment of “Linguistic Conservative Airs Grievance”. Sorry, couldn’t wait until Festivus.
    –TP

  415. The race is over. Counting the votes is like watching a video of the race frame by frame.
    No. No one knows the outcome. If the race is very close, it’s still running today as military overseas ballots (and other late ballots) come in, because those ballots may matter. More importantly, using your definition, the referees can change the rules after the event is over. Counting is the event. Casting ballots is just an important preliminary.

  416. The race is over. Counting the votes is like watching a video of the race frame by frame.
    No. No one knows the outcome. If the race is very close, it’s still running today as military overseas ballots (and other late ballots) come in, because those ballots may matter. More importantly, using your definition, the referees can change the rules after the event is over. Counting is the event. Casting ballots is just an important preliminary.

  417. I don’t think that was Tony P’s point, Michael Cain. It’s not that the result has been decided or that we know what it is. It’s that the votes have been cast, and all we’re seeing is the order in which they’re being counted. In PA, the most glaring example except possibly for GA, people voted weeks ago by mail, but they’re actually among the last ones to be counted.
    Imagine if they had done the opposite and started releasing counts of mail-in ballots as soon as they were received, waiting to slowly release the counts of in-person votes. The narrative would be Biden taking an incredible lead, only for Trump to come almost all the way back but fall just short at the very end (assuming that’s how it ends up and that the release of early vote counts would affect votes cast thereafter).

  418. I don’t think that was Tony P’s point, Michael Cain. It’s not that the result has been decided or that we know what it is. It’s that the votes have been cast, and all we’re seeing is the order in which they’re being counted. In PA, the most glaring example except possibly for GA, people voted weeks ago by mail, but they’re actually among the last ones to be counted.
    Imagine if they had done the opposite and started releasing counts of mail-in ballots as soon as they were received, waiting to slowly release the counts of in-person votes. The narrative would be Biden taking an incredible lead, only for Trump to come almost all the way back but fall just short at the very end (assuming that’s how it ends up and that the release of early vote counts would affect votes cast thereafter).

  421. WTF, Alito! Presumably this will just delay matters? It can’t really throw too much of a spanner, can it, since I’m hoping that most of Biden’s mailed ballots were received by the 3rd?

  422. WTF, Alito! Presumably this will just delay matters? It can’t really throw too much of a spanner, can it, since I’m hoping that most of Biden’s mailed ballots were received by the 3rd?

  423. hsh,
    I have often wondered what would happen if early voting began on the Tuesday after Labor Day and ballots were not only tabulated as they came in, but running totals for every candidate were published daily. Now that would be a live race.
    And your “all we’re seeing is the order in which they’re being counted” is a phrase I wish I had used myself.
    –TP

  424. hsh,
    I have often wondered what would happen if early voting began on the Tuesday after Labor Day and ballots were not only tabulated as they came in, but running totals for every candidate were published daily. Now that would be a live race.
    And your “all we’re seeing is the order in which they’re being counted” is a phrase I wish I had used myself.
    –TP

  425. No. No one knows the outcome.
    This ^^^^.
    It’s true, the votes have been cast, but we don’t know what the result is yet. I’m glad to see things trending Biden’s way, but it ain’t over until it’s over.
    And when it’s over, it ain’t over, because we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    I hate to call attention to it, because it depresses the hell out of me, but this is a highly dysfunctional country at the moment.
    We have a long, long, long way to go to get back to anything resembling coherence.

  426. No. No one knows the outcome.
    This ^^^^.
    It’s true, the votes have been cast, but we don’t know what the result is yet. I’m glad to see things trending Biden’s way, but it ain’t over until it’s over.
    And when it’s over, it ain’t over, because we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    I hate to call attention to it, because it depresses the hell out of me, but this is a highly dysfunctional country at the moment.
    We have a long, long, long way to go to get back to anything resembling coherence.

  427. we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    To a degree, yes. However, note that Biden is
    1) someone with whom McConnell has a long established relationship, and
    2) not black.
    This may reduce (though certainly not eliminate) McConnell’s tendency towards blanket obstruction. One might prefer a universe where McConnell was simply removed from power. But as things are, every little improvement from how Obama was treated must be accounted a plus.

  428. we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    To a degree, yes. However, note that Biden is
    1) someone with whom McConnell has a long established relationship, and
    2) not black.
    This may reduce (though certainly not eliminate) McConnell’s tendency towards blanket obstruction. One might prefer a universe where McConnell was simply removed from power. But as things are, every little improvement from how Obama was treated must be accounted a plus.

  429. There will be two runoffs for senator in Georgia. If the Dems can pull off both, they’ll have a Senate majority with Harris as the tiebreaker. It may be a long shot, but let’s not anoint McConnell as Majority leader yet.

  430. There will be two runoffs for senator in Georgia. If the Dems can pull off both, they’ll have a Senate majority with Harris as the tiebreaker. It may be a long shot, but let’s not anoint McConnell as Majority leader yet.

  433. …we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    That could also give Biden cover for not doing some things he’ll be pressured to do from the left and may not want to do.

  434. …we’ll still have McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, and he will be determined to cut Biden off at the knees.
    That could also give Biden cover for not doing some things he’ll be pressured to do from the left and may not want to do.

  435. To a degree, yes.
    I appreciate your optimism.
    There will be two runoffs for senator in Georgia.
    I will be spending money and probably writing postcards and/or phone banking.
    the most significant outcome, for the long term may well be seen to be what Stacey Abrams has achieved in organizing the Democrats in Georgia.
    Stacey Abrams rocks my world.
    That could also give Biden cover for not doing some things he’ll be pressured to do from the left and may not want to do.
    My guess here is that Sleepy Joe knows his onions and will probably manage to not let himself get boxed in on stuff he doesn’t want to get behind.
    See also, a “bipartisan committee to look into judicial reform”.
    It’s not his first rodeo.
    We’ll see how it goes. First, he actually has to get across the goal line.

  436. To a degree, yes.
    I appreciate your optimism.
    There will be two runoffs for senator in Georgia.
    I will be spending money and probably writing postcards and/or phone banking.
    the most significant outcome, for the long term may well be seen to be what Stacey Abrams has achieved in organizing the Democrats in Georgia.
    Stacey Abrams rocks my world.
    That could also give Biden cover for not doing some things he’ll be pressured to do from the left and may not want to do.
    My guess here is that Sleepy Joe knows his onions and will probably manage to not let himself get boxed in on stuff he doesn’t want to get behind.
    See also, a “bipartisan committee to look into judicial reform”.
    It’s not his first rodeo.
    We’ll see how it goes. First, he actually has to get across the goal line.

  437. I see
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/06/bonnie-glick-fired-trump-post-election-purge/
    that Trump has begun his expected post-election purge of those deemed insufficiently loyal. This will make the running of the government rockier. Not least because he is likely to replace them with the usual — which is to say, incompetent syncophants.
    Nonetheless, I’d say that on balance it’s a good thing. Trump seems unlikely to cooperate with the usual transition planning and briefings by current officials of their planned successors. But this will make folks who have been doing the jobs, and thus are able to do such briefings, available to work with Biden’s people.

  438. I see
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/06/bonnie-glick-fired-trump-post-election-purge/
    that Trump has begun his expected post-election purge of those deemed insufficiently loyal. This will make the running of the government rockier. Not least because he is likely to replace them with the usual — which is to say, incompetent syncophants.
    Nonetheless, I’d say that on balance it’s a good thing. Trump seems unlikely to cooperate with the usual transition planning and briefings by current officials of their planned successors. But this will make folks who have been doing the jobs, and thus are able to do such briefings, available to work with Biden’s people.

  441. Does anybody else wish, as I do, that headline writers would stop using phrases like “Biden Takes Lead in …”
    I find it preferable to the alternative.

  442. Does anybody else wish, as I do, that headline writers would stop using phrases like “Biden Takes Lead in …”
    I find it preferable to the alternative.

  443. …Trump has begun his expected post-election purge of those deemed insufficiently loyal. This will make the running of the government rockier. Not least because he is likely to replace them with the usual — which is to say, incompetent syncophants.
    I am not familiar enough with the Federal Vacancies Act, but worry that he’s setting things up so that when his appointments resign on Jan 21, there are no people who qualify to be “acting” for the top positions. And that McConnell is just crazy enough to refuse all of Biden’s appointments. Effectively, decapitate the departments/agencies in the executive branch.

  444. …Trump has begun his expected post-election purge of those deemed insufficiently loyal. This will make the running of the government rockier. Not least because he is likely to replace them with the usual — which is to say, incompetent syncophants.
    I am not familiar enough with the Federal Vacancies Act, but worry that he’s setting things up so that when his appointments resign on Jan 21, there are no people who qualify to be “acting” for the top positions. And that McConnell is just crazy enough to refuse all of Biden’s appointments. Effectively, decapitate the departments/agencies in the executive branch.

  445. I thought some of you might be interested in this on the election, from Ian Leslie’s (ex-New Statesman) blog The Ruffian. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I think it’s interesting and some of it (the last sentence I quote here) has a minor chime of a ring of truth about it. And anyway, I know some of you are connoisseurs of English insult/analysis. Extract:
    The truth is that Trump would probably be celebrating victory now if he had faced anyone else. I donā€™t know but perhaps it is time to acknowledge that, as a candidate at least, Biden was Not Bad and maybe even Quite Good?
    The Democrats took the White House because they picked Biden and yet I doubt they will pick anyone like Biden ever again, and they do not seem in good shape as a party. 2020 feels like a precarious victory. But nobody knows anything.
    Letā€™s take a moment to recognise that in a world where populists seem to be winning everything the ultimate populist outsider was defeated by a 100% establishment centrist institutional insider.
    I hope Iā€™m not speaking too soon but after all the doomsday predictions I think weā€™re going to see a peaceful albeit graceless transition of power. Americaā€™s institutions are resilient. Also, for all those hysterical op-eds and books, Trump was never an autocrat-wannabe. Autocrats crave power and love to exercise it, Trump craves only status, and is deeply averse to governing.

  446. I thought some of you might be interested in this on the election, from Ian Leslie’s (ex-New Statesman) blog The Ruffian. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I think it’s interesting and some of it (the last sentence I quote here) has a minor chime of a ring of truth about it. And anyway, I know some of you are connoisseurs of English insult/analysis. Extract:
    The truth is that Trump would probably be celebrating victory now if he had faced anyone else. I donā€™t know but perhaps it is time to acknowledge that, as a candidate at least, Biden was Not Bad and maybe even Quite Good?
    The Democrats took the White House because they picked Biden and yet I doubt they will pick anyone like Biden ever again, and they do not seem in good shape as a party. 2020 feels like a precarious victory. But nobody knows anything.
    Letā€™s take a moment to recognise that in a world where populists seem to be winning everything the ultimate populist outsider was defeated by a 100% establishment centrist institutional insider.
    I hope Iā€™m not speaking too soon but after all the doomsday predictions I think weā€™re going to see a peaceful albeit graceless transition of power. Americaā€™s institutions are resilient. Also, for all those hysterical op-eds and books, Trump was never an autocrat-wannabe. Autocrats crave power and love to exercise it, Trump craves only status, and is deeply averse to governing.

  447. Trump was never an autocrat-wannabe. Autocrats crave power and love to exercise it, Trump craves only status, and is deeply averse to governing.
    this feels very correct.

  448. Trump was never an autocrat-wannabe. Autocrats crave power and love to exercise it, Trump craves only status, and is deeply averse to governing.
    this feels very correct.

  449. Thanks for this, GFTNC.
    FWIW, I disagree on the last sentence. It seems to me that Trump loves power and loves “exercising it”, at least in the form of telling people what to do.
    Trump is deeply averse to accountability.
    To some of the other points in the piece:
    DJT won the votes of over 70 million people, and came damned close (still is damned close) to winning a second term.
    DJT is also more than arguably the worst POTUS in the history of the country.
    Many of the people who voted for him also voted for Obama. So his support is not all down to racism, or (R) tribalism. Those things are undoubtedly factors, but they are not even close to the whole story.
    The (D)’s need to understand who those people are, and what they want and need. And then figure out how to address all of that.
    I’m not talking about turning (D)’s into (R)-lite, and I don’t think that’s necessary. No small number of Trump voters are actually fairly well aligned with policies preferred and advocated by (D)’s. They just preferred to vote for Trump, for whatever reason.
    Whatever the (D) message is, it is not getting through. And if and when Trump is gone, running against Trump will no longer be an available strategy.
    70 million people voting for DJT is freaking alarming. We need to figure this out.

  450. Thanks for this, GFTNC.
    FWIW, I disagree on the last sentence. It seems to me that Trump loves power and loves “exercising it”, at least in the form of telling people what to do.
    Trump is deeply averse to accountability.
    To some of the other points in the piece:
    DJT won the votes of over 70 million people, and came damned close (still is damned close) to winning a second term.
    DJT is also more than arguably the worst POTUS in the history of the country.
    Many of the people who voted for him also voted for Obama. So his support is not all down to racism, or (R) tribalism. Those things are undoubtedly factors, but they are not even close to the whole story.
    The (D)’s need to understand who those people are, and what they want and need. And then figure out how to address all of that.
    I’m not talking about turning (D)’s into (R)-lite, and I don’t think that’s necessary. No small number of Trump voters are actually fairly well aligned with policies preferred and advocated by (D)’s. They just preferred to vote for Trump, for whatever reason.
    Whatever the (D) message is, it is not getting through. And if and when Trump is gone, running against Trump will no longer be an available strategy.
    70 million people voting for DJT is freaking alarming. We need to figure this out.

  451. The Onion:

    NEW YORK ā€” Blasting the former vice president for spreading misinformation at this perilous time for democracy, media figures across the political spectrum condemned Joe Biden Friday for his baseless claim that the nation will come together once the election was over. ā€œShame on Vice President Biden for perpetuating these baseless conspiracy theories and outright lies about us somehow binding up the nationā€™s wounds and uniting for the common good behind the ideals of the republic,ā€ said CNNā€™s Jake Tapper in an extended harangue in which he lambasted Biden for living in a ā€œdelusional fantasyā€ in which the American people had the capacity to put aside their petty differences and look toward the better angels of their nature to forge a more perfect union.

  452. The Onion:

    NEW YORK ā€” Blasting the former vice president for spreading misinformation at this perilous time for democracy, media figures across the political spectrum condemned Joe Biden Friday for his baseless claim that the nation will come together once the election was over. ā€œShame on Vice President Biden for perpetuating these baseless conspiracy theories and outright lies about us somehow binding up the nationā€™s wounds and uniting for the common good behind the ideals of the republic,ā€ said CNNā€™s Jake Tapper in an extended harangue in which he lambasted Biden for living in a ā€œdelusional fantasyā€ in which the American people had the capacity to put aside their petty differences and look toward the better angels of their nature to forge a more perfect union.

  453. Meanwhile, this series of tweets from Julie Moroney who was observing the count in Detroit:
    I was at the TCF Center in Detroit yesterday as a non-partisan poll challenger. The woman in the maroon shirt with the black mask was one of the GOP challengers I monitored. At one point, she yelled that a ballot needed to be thrown out because it ā€œlooked sticky.ā€ Another time
    Quote Tweet
    6 Nov
    She demanded that the poll workers stop what they were doing and backup all computers in case of power outage or tornado(?). Just baseless, bad faith challenges to slow the process. And after Trump filed his lawsuit and MI was called for Biden, the GOP strategy shifted to
    Julie Moroney
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    Challenge every single ballot. I know this because I overheard their organizers pass on the new message. They didnt even pretend to have a reason for doing so, just repeated ā€œI challenge this ballot; I challenge that ballotā€ over and over again as the poll workers tried to count.
    At one point, my good friend and law school classmate
    @sumnertruax
    looked over at me and said ā€œthis is not how democracy is supposed to work.ā€ It was so true, and so sad.
    Julie Moroney
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    The optics of it all werenā€™t lost on me either. Picture a huge space filled with predominantly Black poll workers just trying to do their gd jobs while white MI GOP challengers hovered over them, yelling at them that theyā€™re wrong, doing a bad job, or committing crimes.
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    The harassment and intimidation ā€” both from the GOP challengers in the room and the GOP supporters banging on the windows trying to get in ā€” is seared onto my brain. Security guards had to escort us out a side entrance so we could leave the building safely.

  454. Meanwhile, this series of tweets from Julie Moroney who was observing the count in Detroit:
    I was at the TCF Center in Detroit yesterday as a non-partisan poll challenger. The woman in the maroon shirt with the black mask was one of the GOP challengers I monitored. At one point, she yelled that a ballot needed to be thrown out because it ā€œlooked sticky.ā€ Another time
    Quote Tweet
    6 Nov
    She demanded that the poll workers stop what they were doing and backup all computers in case of power outage or tornado(?). Just baseless, bad faith challenges to slow the process. And after Trump filed his lawsuit and MI was called for Biden, the GOP strategy shifted to
    Julie Moroney
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    Challenge every single ballot. I know this because I overheard their organizers pass on the new message. They didnt even pretend to have a reason for doing so, just repeated ā€œI challenge this ballot; I challenge that ballotā€ over and over again as the poll workers tried to count.
    At one point, my good friend and law school classmate
    @sumnertruax
    looked over at me and said ā€œthis is not how democracy is supposed to work.ā€ It was so true, and so sad.
    Julie Moroney
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    The optics of it all werenā€™t lost on me either. Picture a huge space filled with predominantly Black poll workers just trying to do their gd jobs while white MI GOP challengers hovered over them, yelling at them that theyā€™re wrong, doing a bad job, or committing crimes.
    @juliecmoroney
    Ā·
    6 Nov
    The harassment and intimidation ā€” both from the GOP challengers in the room and the GOP supporters banging on the windows trying to get in ā€” is seared onto my brain. Security guards had to escort us out a side entrance so we could leave the building safely.

  455. The harassment and intimidation ā€” both from the GOP challengers in the room and the GOP supporters banging on the windows trying to get in ā€” is seared onto my brain.
    i picture every zombie movie ever made.
    70 million people voting for DJT is freaking alarming. We need to figure this out.
    if laughably corrupt and incompetent Trump wasn’t enough to shatter Republicanism, i’m not sure anything can do it.

  456. The harassment and intimidation ā€” both from the GOP challengers in the room and the GOP supporters banging on the windows trying to get in ā€” is seared onto my brain.
    i picture every zombie movie ever made.
    70 million people voting for DJT is freaking alarming. We need to figure this out.
    if laughably corrupt and incompetent Trump wasn’t enough to shatter Republicanism, i’m not sure anything can do it.

  457. I don’t know who this guy is, but apparently since the whole Brexit saga he has a good reputation for painstaking research, verification etc. So, FWIW, another UK perspective:

    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    1. So, why does it matter that Joe Bidenā€™s electoral college win does not rely on Pennsylvania?
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    2. You will notice that Trumpā€™s focus on electoral fraud is directed at places like Philadelphia, and this matters.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    3. Donald isnā€™t really a politician, he is a populist and that makes him distinct in terms of where he gets his support.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    4. Good politicians seek to get support from tapping into peopleā€™s aspirations, bad politicians seek their support by tapping into a mix of aspiration and grievance.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    5. Populists get their support mainly from appealing to peopleā€™s grievance. It is not a progressive movement, an intellectual movement, or indeed, a positive movement
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    6. Right now, Trump is following the populist playbook for claiming that things are fraudulent in the fact of defeat.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    7. This feeds into his supporterā€™s feelings of grievance and helps build support and loyalty.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    8. Populist supporters buy into this because, as a populist personality cult, Trump “canā€™t lose”.
    He is their MAGA messiah.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    9. Supporters protect their messiah. When Farage lost in 2015, rumours start circulating from anonymous twitter accounts about votes going missing in Thanet, and that led to the police wasting time.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    10. This lie wasnā€™t based on any fact and couldn’t change the result, it was simply to protect the image of Farage’s invincibility.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    11. People shouldnā€™t underestimate the importance of that image, and it may have seemed bizarre that Trump choreographed his return from hospital to Covid and set it to music, but itā€™s populist playbook.
    Trump is invincible.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    12. Invincible leaders never lose, they can’t lose. If they lose, then it’s because something was unfair.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    13. If Biden had won the election clear, the argument would have been that it made no sense that Biden got so many votes, and there was clearly fraud behind it.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    14. As it is, that didnā€™t happen and Trump “won”.
    Or at least, he declared that he had “won” –and– now his win was being “stolen”.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    15. So now, with the help of his MAGA minions and his loyal supporters, he will magnify all the hearsay, non-sequiturs, and innocent events that look bad out of context.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    16. He, and they, donā€™t necessarily need to convince people, they just need to create a doubt in the minds of the wider public and the non-committed Trump voter.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    17. Then on the back of these conspiracies, he takes it to the Supreme Court, and at this point anyone reading this will say he canā€™t win, and youā€™re right he hasnā€™t got anything, but he wonā€™t lose either.
    Populists never lose.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    18. Cast your mind back to the first Gina Miller case in the UK. It was a close call and the result was not unanimous.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    19. This led to people citing the arguments made by the judges who hadnā€™t agreed, and suggesting that, because it was disputed, the argument that Gina Miller was wrong was still valid.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    27. If Biden wins only with Pennsylvania, then that plays into the Trump narrative, and the more states Biden wins, the more the Trump cult will sound…well…cultish.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    28. If Trump does decide to attempt a second coming, it will depend on a number of things such as: How GOP react to him attacking the integrity of the Supreme Court, how old he is, his health, or if he wants to go on.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    29. If he is dumped hard by GOP and he wants to run as an independent as revenge, he could try and finance the run by replicating the Brexit party model.
    (It appears to work for populist personality cults)
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    30. Iā€™m not sure that model can actually generate enough money to sustain a presidential campaign, but it doesnā€™t mean he wonā€™t try.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    31. Alternatively, he might use his personality cult to lobby the GOP with populist policies, like we see in the UK from Farage today.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    32. He is in a position to assert the fact he has won the second highest number of votes in US presidential history, and that sort of following isnā€™t going to be ignored easily.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    33. There isnā€™t much that can be done about what happens next, but letā€™s hope that Biden gets every state on offer, and the popular vote keeps growing for him.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    34. This is about blocking his route to the 2020 presidency, that looks like it’s over, but blocking any route to the 2024 presidency, no matter how difficult or improbable it might seem.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Replying to
    @EmporersNewC
    35. Because as far as Trumpism is concerned, Trump did not lose in 2020.
    Populists…
    never…
    lose.
    /End
    7:02 pm Ā· 6 Nov 2020

  458. I don’t know who this guy is, but apparently since the whole Brexit saga he has a good reputation for painstaking research, verification etc. So, FWIW, another UK perspective:

    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    1. So, why does it matter that Joe Bidenā€™s electoral college win does not rely on Pennsylvania?
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    2. You will notice that Trumpā€™s focus on electoral fraud is directed at places like Philadelphia, and this matters.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    3. Donald isnā€™t really a politician, he is a populist and that makes him distinct in terms of where he gets his support.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    4. Good politicians seek to get support from tapping into peopleā€™s aspirations, bad politicians seek their support by tapping into a mix of aspiration and grievance.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    5. Populists get their support mainly from appealing to peopleā€™s grievance. It is not a progressive movement, an intellectual movement, or indeed, a positive movement
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    6. Right now, Trump is following the populist playbook for claiming that things are fraudulent in the fact of defeat.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    7. This feeds into his supporterā€™s feelings of grievance and helps build support and loyalty.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    8. Populist supporters buy into this because, as a populist personality cult, Trump “canā€™t lose”.
    He is their MAGA messiah.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    9. Supporters protect their messiah. When Farage lost in 2015, rumours start circulating from anonymous twitter accounts about votes going missing in Thanet, and that led to the police wasting time.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    10. This lie wasnā€™t based on any fact and couldn’t change the result, it was simply to protect the image of Farage’s invincibility.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    11. People shouldnā€™t underestimate the importance of that image, and it may have seemed bizarre that Trump choreographed his return from hospital to Covid and set it to music, but itā€™s populist playbook.
    Trump is invincible.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    12. Invincible leaders never lose, they can’t lose. If they lose, then it’s because something was unfair.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    13. If Biden had won the election clear, the argument would have been that it made no sense that Biden got so many votes, and there was clearly fraud behind it.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    14. As it is, that didnā€™t happen and Trump “won”.
    Or at least, he declared that he had “won” –and– now his win was being “stolen”.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    15. So now, with the help of his MAGA minions and his loyal supporters, he will magnify all the hearsay, non-sequiturs, and innocent events that look bad out of context.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    16. He, and they, donā€™t necessarily need to convince people, they just need to create a doubt in the minds of the wider public and the non-committed Trump voter.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    17. Then on the back of these conspiracies, he takes it to the Supreme Court, and at this point anyone reading this will say he canā€™t win, and youā€™re right he hasnā€™t got anything, but he wonā€™t lose either.
    Populists never lose.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    18. Cast your mind back to the first Gina Miller case in the UK. It was a close call and the result was not unanimous.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    19. This led to people citing the arguments made by the judges who hadnā€™t agreed, and suggesting that, because it was disputed, the argument that Gina Miller was wrong was still valid.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    27. If Biden wins only with Pennsylvania, then that plays into the Trump narrative, and the more states Biden wins, the more the Trump cult will sound…well…cultish.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    28. If Trump does decide to attempt a second coming, it will depend on a number of things such as: How GOP react to him attacking the integrity of the Supreme Court, how old he is, his health, or if he wants to go on.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    29. If he is dumped hard by GOP and he wants to run as an independent as revenge, he could try and finance the run by replicating the Brexit party model.
    (It appears to work for populist personality cults)
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    30. Iā€™m not sure that model can actually generate enough money to sustain a presidential campaign, but it doesnā€™t mean he wonā€™t try.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    31. Alternatively, he might use his personality cult to lobby the GOP with populist policies, like we see in the UK from Farage today.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    32. He is in a position to assert the fact he has won the second highest number of votes in US presidential history, and that sort of following isnā€™t going to be ignored easily.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    33. There isnā€™t much that can be done about what happens next, but letā€™s hope that Biden gets every state on offer, and the popular vote keeps growing for him.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Ā·
    19h
    34. This is about blocking his route to the 2020 presidency, that looks like it’s over, but blocking any route to the 2024 presidency, no matter how difficult or improbable it might seem.
    Steve Analyst
    @EmporersNewC
    Replying to
    @EmporersNewC
    35. Because as far as Trumpism is concerned, Trump did not lose in 2020.
    Populists…
    never…
    lose.
    /End
    7:02 pm Ā· 6 Nov 2020

  461. And further to which, hilzoy retweets a thread by Rick Perlstein about Limbaugh’s latest take, and the thread ends like this (sorry about all the twitter stuff, I will edit):
    Then comes Rush’s Bircher-style riff…
    that the GOP establishment, which despises Trump because Trump was succeeding in tearing down “globalism,” are in on the conspiracy, and that a senile Democratic president they can manipulate, and Republican senate, was their dream scenario scenario all along…
    …
    Thus his ask to listenersā€”which, though of course it’s subject to change 180 degrees at any time (that’s how conspiracy theories work) is a cheering one for Democrats: disengage from the bought-and-paid-for Republican Party, and declare your allegiance to Trump instead…
    …
    Rush now all but declares Trump’s 2020 defeat a done deal–but 2024 is his for the taking in a walk if he wants it. Among the conspirators he has told his listeners to turn his back on are National Review, Marco Rubio, and Nikki Haley.
    FIN

  462. And further to which, hilzoy retweets a thread by Rick Perlstein about Limbaugh’s latest take, and the thread ends like this (sorry about all the twitter stuff, I will edit):
    Then comes Rush’s Bircher-style riff…
    that the GOP establishment, which despises Trump because Trump was succeeding in tearing down “globalism,” are in on the conspiracy, and that a senile Democratic president they can manipulate, and Republican senate, was their dream scenario scenario all along…
    …
    Thus his ask to listenersā€”which, though of course it’s subject to change 180 degrees at any time (that’s how conspiracy theories work) is a cheering one for Democrats: disengage from the bought-and-paid-for Republican Party, and declare your allegiance to Trump instead…
    …
    Rush now all but declares Trump’s 2020 defeat a done deal–but 2024 is his for the taking in a walk if he wants it. Among the conspirators he has told his listeners to turn his back on are National Review, Marco Rubio, and Nikki Haley.
    FIN

  463. Well, if the lying, cheating, stealing and abject bullying don’t prevail in the stealing of this election, not the first time, keep in mind that the subhuman conservative movement across the globe holds in thrall Mao Zedong’s dictum that “All power grows from the barrel of a gun.”

  464. Well, if the lying, cheating, stealing and abject bullying don’t prevail in the stealing of this election, not the first time, keep in mind that the subhuman conservative movement across the globe holds in thrall Mao Zedong’s dictum that “All power grows from the barrel of a gun.”

  465. i don’t think any actual Democrat is going to be able to supplant the caricature Democrat that terrorizes “conservative” fantasies. and there’s too much money being made in keeping that caricature alive.
    in NC, every GOP commercial was about:
    socialism!
    Dems are “soft on crime”!
    leftist mobs are burning down the world!
    it was entirely fear-based, and it was the same batch of nonsense they’ve been peddling since the 1950s.
    towards the end, there was a batch of hilariously sanctimonious and hypocritical ads about Cal Cunningham’s romantic choices.
    the NC Dems ran on healthcare. they made occasional references to military pay (big military state), but literally nothing else.

  466. i don’t think any actual Democrat is going to be able to supplant the caricature Democrat that terrorizes “conservative” fantasies. and there’s too much money being made in keeping that caricature alive.
    in NC, every GOP commercial was about:
    socialism!
    Dems are “soft on crime”!
    leftist mobs are burning down the world!
    it was entirely fear-based, and it was the same batch of nonsense they’ve been peddling since the 1950s.
    towards the end, there was a batch of hilariously sanctimonious and hypocritical ads about Cal Cunningham’s romantic choices.
    the NC Dems ran on healthcare. they made occasional references to military pay (big military state), but literally nothing else.

  467. From bobbyp’s cite:
    millions voted out of concern for their personal finances rather than address the challenges roiling much of the country.
    which also touches on Marty’s comment about people making pragmatic choices among the options available.
    Could be the (D)’s have nothing to offer in terms of people building personal wealth and achieving a basic level of financial security.
    I doubt that’s true, but it could be true.
    But if it’s not true, the message doesn’t seem to be getting across.
    the NC Dems ran on healthcare.
    well, health care is important, and is a very concrete issue for a lot of people. So maybe that was a good thing to run on.
    What else could they have run on? What would have moved the needle from 40-something percent, to 60 or 70 percent?
    Maybe nothing, but then again maybe not.
    Or, maybe half the country don’t give a rat’s @ss about anything but themselves, and they’ll vote for whoever tells them everybody’s picking on them.
    In which case, this country will fail, and will deserve to fail.

  468. From bobbyp’s cite:
    millions voted out of concern for their personal finances rather than address the challenges roiling much of the country.
    which also touches on Marty’s comment about people making pragmatic choices among the options available.
    Could be the (D)’s have nothing to offer in terms of people building personal wealth and achieving a basic level of financial security.
    I doubt that’s true, but it could be true.
    But if it’s not true, the message doesn’t seem to be getting across.
    the NC Dems ran on healthcare.
    well, health care is important, and is a very concrete issue for a lot of people. So maybe that was a good thing to run on.
    What else could they have run on? What would have moved the needle from 40-something percent, to 60 or 70 percent?
    Maybe nothing, but then again maybe not.
    Or, maybe half the country don’t give a rat’s @ss about anything but themselves, and they’ll vote for whoever tells them everybody’s picking on them.
    In which case, this country will fail, and will deserve to fail.

  469. Twenty five minutes ago, DJT tweeted this in all caps:
    I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!
    Wow. Mark Meadows (maskless at election night party) and four aides down with Covid-19. The White House certainly is in an alternative facts bubble…

  470. Twenty five minutes ago, DJT tweeted this in all caps:
    I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!
    Wow. Mark Meadows (maskless at election night party) and four aides down with Covid-19. The White House certainly is in an alternative facts bubble…

  473. I just found out about Pennsylvania because there was a bunch of celebratory cheering and car honking in the street and from the apartments all around. It went in for about five minutes or more and just stopped.
    Oops, one last ā€˜ hooooo!ā€ just now.
    Back to normal Saturday morning noises.

  474. I just found out about Pennsylvania because there was a bunch of celebratory cheering and car honking in the street and from the apartments all around. It went in for about five minutes or more and just stopped.
    Oops, one last ā€˜ hooooo!ā€ just now.
    Back to normal Saturday morning noises.

  475. And (I can’t remember if somebody here said this) it will be very satisfying if Biden ends up with 306 from the EC, after DJT spent so much time boasting (falsely) about the historic size of his own victory (and that the EC was “much harder to get than the popular vote”). Many of one’s reactions to this could be considered a bit childish, given the underlying situation, but fuck it, we have to get our pleasure where we can.

  476. And (I can’t remember if somebody here said this) it will be very satisfying if Biden ends up with 306 from the EC, after DJT spent so much time boasting (falsely) about the historic size of his own victory (and that the EC was “much harder to get than the popular vote”). Many of one’s reactions to this could be considered a bit childish, given the underlying situation, but fuck it, we have to get our pleasure where we can.

  477. My wife heard one pro Trump shout, so the neighborhood wasnā€™t unanimous.
    On those lines, back in the summer we were standing in a small BLM protest in a little park with a statue of a famous person Xā€”I wonā€™t name X because there probably arenā€™t many such statues of X and I have gotten slightly less eager to be fully open on the internet. We were holding up the names of various Black people shot by police. No, I am not much of a real,life activist, but this is a three minute walk,from where I live.
    To paint the picture, most of us are late middle aged or older. A couple of younger people. None of us look super athletic. Usually we get some approving honks from passing cars. Then one time this young woman came up in outrage, asking why we were standing near the statue of X. She seriously thought this collection of older folk were planning on scaling up a 15 foot base to where the statue was and toppling it. To quote the white sidekick in one of those Jackie Chan western parodies, what about our appearance gave her the idea that we were capable of such a thing?
    One of us tried to engage her in polite conversation and and I heard her recite a bunch of Fox talking points, presumably satisfied that the geriatric mob in front of her was not at that moment a pressing danger to cultural memory or the foundations of Western civilization.

  478. My wife heard one pro Trump shout, so the neighborhood wasnā€™t unanimous.
    On those lines, back in the summer we were standing in a small BLM protest in a little park with a statue of a famous person Xā€”I wonā€™t name X because there probably arenā€™t many such statues of X and I have gotten slightly less eager to be fully open on the internet. We were holding up the names of various Black people shot by police. No, I am not much of a real,life activist, but this is a three minute walk,from where I live.
    To paint the picture, most of us are late middle aged or older. A couple of younger people. None of us look super athletic. Usually we get some approving honks from passing cars. Then one time this young woman came up in outrage, asking why we were standing near the statue of X. She seriously thought this collection of older folk were planning on scaling up a 15 foot base to where the statue was and toppling it. To quote the white sidekick in one of those Jackie Chan western parodies, what about our appearance gave her the idea that we were capable of such a thing?
    One of us tried to engage her in polite conversation and and I heard her recite a bunch of Fox talking points, presumably satisfied that the geriatric mob in front of her was not at that moment a pressing danger to cultural memory or the foundations of Western civilization.

  479. To be fair, ever since then whenever I jog past that statue I try to think about how we would do itā€”if we could just get a big rope and work it up high enough and we all pull togetherā€”
    Trouble is, I never see X among the list of people richly deserving cancellation.

  480. To be fair, ever since then whenever I jog past that statue I try to think about how we would do itā€”if we could just get a big rope and work it up high enough and we all pull togetherā€”
    Trouble is, I never see X among the list of people richly deserving cancellation.

  481. Omg
    Thereā€™s a chance we can stop hearing and talking about Trump soon!
    Five years of this clown is far more attention than he deserves.

  482. Omg
    Thereā€™s a chance we can stop hearing and talking about Trump soon!
    Five years of this clown is far more attention than he deserves.

  483. Not missing him yet? šŸ˜‰
    That womb is fertile still wherefrom it crawled. (to paraphrase Brecht lacking an English translation of Artuto Ui.
    —
    Edit: I found “The womb he crawled from is still going strong”, which I find weaker than the German original I tried to imitate.

  484. Not missing him yet? šŸ˜‰
    That womb is fertile still wherefrom it crawled. (to paraphrase Brecht lacking an English translation of Artuto Ui.
    —
    Edit: I found “The womb he crawled from is still going strong”, which I find weaker than the German original I tried to imitate.

  485. Yours is definitely better, Hartmut. You could have said “from whence” instead of “wherefrom” but yours is better than that too!

  486. Yours is definitely better, Hartmut. You could have said “from whence” instead of “wherefrom” but yours is better than that too!

  487. Iā€™m not sure that model can actually generate enough money to sustain a presidential campaign, but it doesnā€™t mean he [Trump] wonā€™t try.
    I’d say that it’s virtually certain that he will try.
    After all, he didn’t run the first time with the intention of winning. He was just looking to make money off the campaign. He’s learned a lot about how to skim money from campaign donations. And the marks are still out there, just waiting to be fleeced.

  488. Iā€™m not sure that model can actually generate enough money to sustain a presidential campaign, but it doesnā€™t mean he [Trump] wonā€™t try.
    I’d say that it’s virtually certain that he will try.
    After all, he didn’t run the first time with the intention of winning. He was just looking to make money off the campaign. He’s learned a lot about how to skim money from campaign donations. And the marks are still out there, just waiting to be fleeced.

  489. I’m seeing some discussions about why the Democrats lost House seats on a day when Biden won. Many of them posit ticket-splitting. But a few suggest people voting for Biden, but not bothering to vote at all on down ballot races.
    I would have doubted that . . . except for one thing: I know some people did exactly that. How do I know? At the polling place I worked, voters first filled out their ballot, 5 pieces of paper / 10 pages. Then fed the papers into a scanner. If you had a page where you hadn’t voted on any of the races, the scanner would beep at you and refuse to continue until you confirmed that you intended to not vote on those two pages. And we had multiple cases where that happened.
    I don’t know who those folks were voting for for president. But I do know they were skipping a bunch of down ballot races.

  490. I’m seeing some discussions about why the Democrats lost House seats on a day when Biden won. Many of them posit ticket-splitting. But a few suggest people voting for Biden, but not bothering to vote at all on down ballot races.
    I would have doubted that . . . except for one thing: I know some people did exactly that. How do I know? At the polling place I worked, voters first filled out their ballot, 5 pieces of paper / 10 pages. Then fed the papers into a scanner. If you had a page where you hadn’t voted on any of the races, the scanner would beep at you and refuse to continue until you confirmed that you intended to not vote on those two pages. And we had multiple cases where that happened.
    I don’t know who those folks were voting for for president. But I do know they were skipping a bunch of down ballot races.

  491. Since I think the Lincoln Project’s stuff was so good, I was pleased to see that when AOC tweeted
    BTW Iā€™m definitely happy to be proven wrong. If we can get independent data that @ProjectLincolnā€™s videos and billboards were directly responsible for really effective R āž”ļø D persuasion – $67 million of it – Iā€™ll publicly apologize. But we just havenā€™t seen any.
    Conor Rogers replied
    I am very happy to show you what we did county by county with digital ads, and would love to talk about what was most effective in persuading people.
    We have two more senators to beat just this cycle, and a whole slate of them in 2022. The more info we all have, the better.
    I’m so glad to see that they’re in it for the (medium-) long run.

  492. Since I think the Lincoln Project’s stuff was so good, I was pleased to see that when AOC tweeted
    BTW Iā€™m definitely happy to be proven wrong. If we can get independent data that @ProjectLincolnā€™s videos and billboards were directly responsible for really effective R āž”ļø D persuasion – $67 million of it – Iā€™ll publicly apologize. But we just havenā€™t seen any.
    Conor Rogers replied
    I am very happy to show you what we did county by county with digital ads, and would love to talk about what was most effective in persuading people.
    We have two more senators to beat just this cycle, and a whole slate of them in 2022. The more info we all have, the better.
    I’m so glad to see that they’re in it for the (medium-) long run.

  493. Intetesting observation by Nate Silver at 538 (just after noon Eastern today):

    Maybe worth noting that Democrats are 3-0 this century when they have a Black person on the ticket, and 0-3 when they donā€™t.

    Too small a sample size to draw any solid conclusion, of course. After all, they are also 3-0 when they have Joe Biden on the ticket, and 0-3 when they don’t. šŸ˜
    Although that would be harder to replicate going forward….

  494. Intetesting observation by Nate Silver at 538 (just after noon Eastern today):

    Maybe worth noting that Democrats are 3-0 this century when they have a Black person on the ticket, and 0-3 when they donā€™t.

    Too small a sample size to draw any solid conclusion, of course. After all, they are also 3-0 when they have Joe Biden on the ticket, and 0-3 when they don’t. šŸ˜
    Although that would be harder to replicate going forward….

  495. I am at one of my regular establishments, people are celebrating, waving signs and flags, and the cars driving by are honking nonstop. Iā€™ve seen video of much larger celebrations in Midtown. The road ahead will be difficult. But today is for rejoicing. Although I gather from a friend who lives outside I-285 that itā€™s quiet there.

  496. I am at one of my regular establishments, people are celebrating, waving signs and flags, and the cars driving by are honking nonstop. Iā€™ve seen video of much larger celebrations in Midtown. The road ahead will be difficult. But today is for rejoicing. Although I gather from a friend who lives outside I-285 that itā€™s quiet there.

  499. Today is a day to rejoice. Tomorrow, we roll up our sleeves, because the struggle continues. Have a great day!
    Sincerely,
    the Far Left

  500. Today is a day to rejoice. Tomorrow, we roll up our sleeves, because the struggle continues. Have a great day!
    Sincerely,
    the Far Left

  501. This Sarah Longwell character is tweeting at the Lincoln Project. Don’t know who she is, but I think you can’t argue with this:

    @SarahLongwell25
    Ā·
    4h
    Bidenā€™s election while historic in the number of votes and large in EC margins, was still very close. It took absolutely everyone. It took
    @ProjectLincoln and @RVAT2020 and every dem group from moderates to progressives to build a coalition of the decent. It took everyone.
    And that last makes me feel a bit …something.

  502. This Sarah Longwell character is tweeting at the Lincoln Project. Don’t know who she is, but I think you can’t argue with this:

    @SarahLongwell25
    Ā·
    4h
    Bidenā€™s election while historic in the number of votes and large in EC margins, was still very close. It took absolutely everyone. It took
    @ProjectLincoln and @RVAT2020 and every dem group from moderates to progressives to build a coalition of the decent. It took everyone.
    And that last makes me feel a bit …something.

  503. Today is a day to rejoice.
    For libertarians there are a number of things, at least on the state level, to be happy about too.

  504. Today is a day to rejoice.
    For libertarians there are a number of things, at least on the state level, to be happy about too.

  505. Dear Far Left
    Counsel in Texas informs me that we at ObWi think the far left is kinda cool. I don’t know about that, but it is certainly true where your portion of the far left is concerned.
    Yours sincerely,
    The wishy-washy Liberals

  506. Dear Far Left
    Counsel in Texas informs me that we at ObWi think the far left is kinda cool. I don’t know about that, but it is certainly true where your portion of the far left is concerned.
    Yours sincerely,
    The wishy-washy Liberals

  507. For libertarians there are a number of things, at least on the state level, to be happy about too.
    I’m happy about some (not all) of the items you listed a couple of days ago. Ending the drug war is good!

  508. For libertarians there are a number of things, at least on the state level, to be happy about too.
    I’m happy about some (not all) of the items you listed a couple of days ago. Ending the drug war is good!

  513. GFTNC,
    This ex-SDS’er, wobbly, sorta’ marxist, straight Dem ticket voter since ’72, thanks you. We all have our place in the greater scheme of things. Do what you can.
    Best Regards,

  514. GFTNC,
    This ex-SDS’er, wobbly, sorta’ marxist, straight Dem ticket voter since ’72, thanks you. We all have our place in the greater scheme of things. Do what you can.
    Best Regards,

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