by russell
The occupation of a wildlife park building by self-appointed patriots in Burns OR raises a lot of questions for me. Not about the folks involved, IMO they're a crew of buffoons – the 'patriotic' version of Moe, Larry, and Curly - and the less attention given them the better.
The questions I have are about the nominal motivation for their actions, because I think that resonates with a much broader set of folks than this specific band of sovereign citizen brothers.
How did the feds come to own so much land in the west?
Why is it good, or bad, that the feds do own so much land?
Is it a matter of public vs private ownership per se, or is the problem one of federal vs local control? That is, if the various states owned the land, rather than the feds, would that be OK, or would it be equally objectionable?
A lot of the land is arguably of limited use, other than the uses that are made of it currently, under federal control. Logging, mining, grazing, or in some cases no use at all. There are sections of the great basin that are, frankly, not suitable for human habitation, other than perhaps by hermits. Why is it bad for those lands to be publicly owned and managed?
What would happen to that land if it was turned over to private ownership and management? Or, to public ownership at a local level?
The Bundys say their goal is to 'get loggers back to logging and ranchers back to ranching'. In fact, the Malheur area was available to ranchers for grazing, at a favorable price, but even recognizing that some federal land is off limits for those purposes, why is that bad?
Shorter me : why is it bad for large areas of land to be held and managed by the public? Is it only bad if its the feds? Or is it bad per se?
Sometime commenter Michael Cain has written a lot about this on his own blog, I invite him specifically to weigh in if he is so inclined.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way, even though it presents the same sorts of issues.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way, even though it presents the same sorts of issues.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way, even though it presents the same sorts of issues.
First thing we do is cancel the Louisiana Purchase:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-hodge-podge-of-ideas
Ranchers already get a 93% discount from market rates for fattening their livestock.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/
Hand it all over to the private sector and “rationalize” those discounts out of existence and then sit back and watch the range wars begin.
There will be no Shane to intervene between the cattle rustlers and the sodbusters.
The West’s dams and water systems should be handed over the private sector too and water priced at market rates so the ranchers cattle and the farmers’ pecan groves can pay up or go under.
State control? First thing we do in Colorado, especially the West slope of the Rockies is we cut off all flows of water out of state pending exponential price increases.
Get those Vegas trips in now. I mean, what are Sheldon Adelson and the rest of the Republican hookers who run that mirage going to do?
They can start by sucking on this.
We’ll make the entire West look like Flint, Michigan and Detroit vis a vis water.
Water wars are even more deadly than range wars.
The federal lands in the West and elsewhere were federal before the states existed.
You’d think that would appeal to originalists.
I also want a bill, with accrued interest and late charges, sent to each and every westerner, including me, for the federal government’s service to us for clearing this country of wild Indians and stealing their lands.
Time to pay up.
First thing we do is cancel the Louisiana Purchase:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-hodge-podge-of-ideas
Ranchers already get a 93% discount from market rates for fattening their livestock.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/
Hand it all over to the private sector and “rationalize” those discounts out of existence and then sit back and watch the range wars begin.
There will be no Shane to intervene between the cattle rustlers and the sodbusters.
The West’s dams and water systems should be handed over the private sector too and water priced at market rates so the ranchers cattle and the farmers’ pecan groves can pay up or go under.
State control? First thing we do in Colorado, especially the West slope of the Rockies is we cut off all flows of water out of state pending exponential price increases.
Get those Vegas trips in now. I mean, what are Sheldon Adelson and the rest of the Republican hookers who run that mirage going to do?
They can start by sucking on this.
We’ll make the entire West look like Flint, Michigan and Detroit vis a vis water.
Water wars are even more deadly than range wars.
The federal lands in the West and elsewhere were federal before the states existed.
You’d think that would appeal to originalists.
I also want a bill, with accrued interest and late charges, sent to each and every westerner, including me, for the federal government’s service to us for clearing this country of wild Indians and stealing their lands.
Time to pay up.
First thing we do is cancel the Louisiana Purchase:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-hodge-podge-of-ideas
Ranchers already get a 93% discount from market rates for fattening their livestock.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/
Hand it all over to the private sector and “rationalize” those discounts out of existence and then sit back and watch the range wars begin.
There will be no Shane to intervene between the cattle rustlers and the sodbusters.
The West’s dams and water systems should be handed over the private sector too and water priced at market rates so the ranchers cattle and the farmers’ pecan groves can pay up or go under.
State control? First thing we do in Colorado, especially the West slope of the Rockies is we cut off all flows of water out of state pending exponential price increases.
Get those Vegas trips in now. I mean, what are Sheldon Adelson and the rest of the Republican hookers who run that mirage going to do?
They can start by sucking on this.
We’ll make the entire West look like Flint, Michigan and Detroit vis a vis water.
Water wars are even more deadly than range wars.
The federal lands in the West and elsewhere were federal before the states existed.
You’d think that would appeal to originalists.
I also want a bill, with accrued interest and late charges, sent to each and every westerner, including me, for the federal government’s service to us for clearing this country of wild Indians and stealing their lands.
Time to pay up.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
Thanks.
He sounds like a reasonable guy from his rare comments here.
Actor Michael Caine’s website is all that comes up on Google, but somehow I don’t think the best lines in “Alfie” are going to help me out with the subject at hand.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
Thanks.
He sounds like a reasonable guy from his rare comments here.
Actor Michael Caine’s website is all that comes up on Google, but somehow I don’t think the best lines in “Alfie” are going to help me out with the subject at hand.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
Thanks.
He sounds like a reasonable guy from his rare comments here.
Actor Michael Caine’s website is all that comes up on Google, but somehow I don’t think the best lines in “Alfie” are going to help me out with the subject at hand.
“What would happen to that land if it was turned over to private ownership and management?”
It would be developed (possibly uselessly or damagingly) out of existence. Next question.
“What would happen to that land if it was turned over to private ownership and management?”
It would be developed (possibly uselessly or damagingly) out of existence. Next question.
“What would happen to that land if it was turned over to private ownership and management?”
It would be developed (possibly uselessly or damagingly) out of existence. Next question.
Public lands in the West are spoils of war. In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In the West, the spoils were acquired later, and are a hell of lot less valuable per acre. All the acreage that’s really good for farmland went to private, white hands pretty quickly, but that left a lot of marginally arable to out-and-out useless land.
The decision to manage large sections of the West as (white) public lands was basically a compromise over what to do with spoils of war. Americans were no longer comfortable, in general, with proclaiming “we’re white people and Christians so we deserve the land more than Indians do” … but that doesn’t mean they wanted to give it *back*, or anything.
Public lands in the West are spoils of war. In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In the West, the spoils were acquired later, and are a hell of lot less valuable per acre. All the acreage that’s really good for farmland went to private, white hands pretty quickly, but that left a lot of marginally arable to out-and-out useless land.
The decision to manage large sections of the West as (white) public lands was basically a compromise over what to do with spoils of war. Americans were no longer comfortable, in general, with proclaiming “we’re white people and Christians so we deserve the land more than Indians do” … but that doesn’t mean they wanted to give it *back*, or anything.
Public lands in the West are spoils of war. In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In the West, the spoils were acquired later, and are a hell of lot less valuable per acre. All the acreage that’s really good for farmland went to private, white hands pretty quickly, but that left a lot of marginally arable to out-and-out useless land.
The decision to manage large sections of the West as (white) public lands was basically a compromise over what to do with spoils of war. Americans were no longer comfortable, in general, with proclaiming “we’re white people and Christians so we deserve the land more than Indians do” … but that doesn’t mean they wanted to give it *back*, or anything.
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive. Less so when the government takes land regularly by eminent domain. And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive. Less so when the government takes land regularly by eminent domain. And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive. Less so when the government takes land regularly by eminent domain. And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.
Marty, it’s productive to talk about it that way when the people who were despoiled of the land are *right there*. The Paiute Tribe still owns a lot of this wildlife preserve, under a treaty which gives the BLM the right to manage it, which is what my link is about. And the Paiute Tribe is *pissed*.
Marty, it’s productive to talk about it that way when the people who were despoiled of the land are *right there*. The Paiute Tribe still owns a lot of this wildlife preserve, under a treaty which gives the BLM the right to manage it, which is what my link is about. And the Paiute Tribe is *pissed*.
Marty, it’s productive to talk about it that way when the people who were despoiled of the land are *right there*. The Paiute Tribe still owns a lot of this wildlife preserve, under a treaty which gives the BLM the right to manage it, which is what my link is about. And the Paiute Tribe is *pissed*.
I have no problem at all with reverting all non-national-park public lands, such as are not being used by the federal government (this excludes some parts of Nevada, I think, and some rather profitable parts of CA) to state control.
Problem is: the states don’t want it. It’d cost too much money to maintain. The only way to make that work is to do a gradual transfer, while giving the states time to figure out how to tax the citizenry in order to pay for upkeep, or, to some extent, how to dispose of the property.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, raising cattle is at least as much in the public interest as is raising corn. Once the ethanol mandate goes away: even more so.
But on the other hand: once the ethanol mandate goes away, corn prices will drop, and whatever need ranchers might have for a discount on grazing land might diminish.
I am frankly just pulling most of this directly out of by butt. This issues of government control of land is something that most of us don’t think about; are conditioned not to think about, except for when a bunch of idiots and their Amazon-bought tacticoolery take over an abandoned building and forget to bring popcorn.
I have no problem at all with reverting all non-national-park public lands, such as are not being used by the federal government (this excludes some parts of Nevada, I think, and some rather profitable parts of CA) to state control.
Problem is: the states don’t want it. It’d cost too much money to maintain. The only way to make that work is to do a gradual transfer, while giving the states time to figure out how to tax the citizenry in order to pay for upkeep, or, to some extent, how to dispose of the property.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, raising cattle is at least as much in the public interest as is raising corn. Once the ethanol mandate goes away: even more so.
But on the other hand: once the ethanol mandate goes away, corn prices will drop, and whatever need ranchers might have for a discount on grazing land might diminish.
I am frankly just pulling most of this directly out of by butt. This issues of government control of land is something that most of us don’t think about; are conditioned not to think about, except for when a bunch of idiots and their Amazon-bought tacticoolery take over an abandoned building and forget to bring popcorn.
I have no problem at all with reverting all non-national-park public lands, such as are not being used by the federal government (this excludes some parts of Nevada, I think, and some rather profitable parts of CA) to state control.
Problem is: the states don’t want it. It’d cost too much money to maintain. The only way to make that work is to do a gradual transfer, while giving the states time to figure out how to tax the citizenry in order to pay for upkeep, or, to some extent, how to dispose of the property.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, raising cattle is at least as much in the public interest as is raising corn. Once the ethanol mandate goes away: even more so.
But on the other hand: once the ethanol mandate goes away, corn prices will drop, and whatever need ranchers might have for a discount on grazing land might diminish.
I am frankly just pulling most of this directly out of by butt. This issues of government control of land is something that most of us don’t think about; are conditioned not to think about, except for when a bunch of idiots and their Amazon-bought tacticoolery take over an abandoned building and forget to bring popcorn.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively.
Good point, that. And, federal regulation of where folks can fish / what they can catch / how much they can catch is a huge PITA for a lot of people, but also makes it more likely that there will still be fish in the ocean 50 years from now.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
I live to serve. Highly recommended.
In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In my area (north-east MA), land ownership was, originally, mostly via royal grant – the king gave either outright ownership or right of use to one or another of his buddies – and then it was kind of parcelled out from there, over the years.
The ‘fighting the indians’ part was kind of a secondary phenomenon. Not so much a path to ownership, just a basic requirement, assuming you wanted to do anything with the land.
arbitrarily
I guess a lot of my question has to do with this word.
Is it really arbitrary? Is it always arbitrary?
Or is it a matter of trying to negotiate different interests?
In the case of the Malheur refuge, the birding community, of all groups, have taken public exception to the actions of the Bundys et al.
Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?
Or, pick any example you like.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively.
Good point, that. And, federal regulation of where folks can fish / what they can catch / how much they can catch is a huge PITA for a lot of people, but also makes it more likely that there will still be fish in the ocean 50 years from now.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
I live to serve. Highly recommended.
In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In my area (north-east MA), land ownership was, originally, mostly via royal grant – the king gave either outright ownership or right of use to one or another of his buddies – and then it was kind of parcelled out from there, over the years.
The ‘fighting the indians’ part was kind of a secondary phenomenon. Not so much a path to ownership, just a basic requirement, assuming you wanted to do anything with the land.
arbitrarily
I guess a lot of my question has to do with this word.
Is it really arbitrary? Is it always arbitrary?
Or is it a matter of trying to negotiate different interests?
In the case of the Malheur refuge, the birding community, of all groups, have taken public exception to the actions of the Bundys et al.
Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?
Or, pick any example you like.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively.
Good point, that. And, federal regulation of where folks can fish / what they can catch / how much they can catch is a huge PITA for a lot of people, but also makes it more likely that there will still be fish in the ocean 50 years from now.
Any chance of a link to Michael Cain’s blog?
I live to serve. Highly recommended.
In the Eastern half of the country, spoils of the war against Native Americans became the personal property of individual white people, via auctions, bribes, squatting, and all manner of chicanery.
In my area (north-east MA), land ownership was, originally, mostly via royal grant – the king gave either outright ownership or right of use to one or another of his buddies – and then it was kind of parcelled out from there, over the years.
The ‘fighting the indians’ part was kind of a secondary phenomenon. Not so much a path to ownership, just a basic requirement, assuming you wanted to do anything with the land.
arbitrarily
I guess a lot of my question has to do with this word.
Is it really arbitrary? Is it always arbitrary?
Or is it a matter of trying to negotiate different interests?
In the case of the Malheur refuge, the birding community, of all groups, have taken public exception to the actions of the Bundys et al.
Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?
Or, pick any example you like.
“My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.”
That’s why vultures and their human relatives circle overhead until we die.
Someone would protest if someone else turned a parking lot into a graveyard. Less lucrative.
But I agree that Transcanada should stop suing the federal government for refusing to take land by eminent domain:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41016/transcanada-keystone-pipeline-lawsuit/
“arbitrarily”
Like everything. Especially the rights the farmers and ranchers had before.
Not that I minded much of any of this until recent decades when certain types started to make a BFD about everything under the sun.
If the Paiute had taken over the refuge structures, Ted Cruz and a host of vultures would be up there right now in fake camo and with a weapon pointed in all directions to get them out of there.
So they could claim the land for pipeline right-of-way and the new Disney frontier Gabby Hayes shoot-em-up memorial and tramway.
Because he’s so knowledgable.
“My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.”
That’s why vultures and their human relatives circle overhead until we die.
Someone would protest if someone else turned a parking lot into a graveyard. Less lucrative.
But I agree that Transcanada should stop suing the federal government for refusing to take land by eminent domain:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41016/transcanada-keystone-pipeline-lawsuit/
“arbitrarily”
Like everything. Especially the rights the farmers and ranchers had before.
Not that I minded much of any of this until recent decades when certain types started to make a BFD about everything under the sun.
If the Paiute had taken over the refuge structures, Ted Cruz and a host of vultures would be up there right now in fake camo and with a weapon pointed in all directions to get them out of there.
So they could claim the land for pipeline right-of-way and the new Disney frontier Gabby Hayes shoot-em-up memorial and tramway.
Because he’s so knowledgable.
“My great-grandparents graveyard is now a parking lot, and no one protests.”
That’s why vultures and their human relatives circle overhead until we die.
Someone would protest if someone else turned a parking lot into a graveyard. Less lucrative.
But I agree that Transcanada should stop suing the federal government for refusing to take land by eminent domain:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41016/transcanada-keystone-pipeline-lawsuit/
“arbitrarily”
Like everything. Especially the rights the farmers and ranchers had before.
Not that I minded much of any of this until recent decades when certain types started to make a BFD about everything under the sun.
If the Paiute had taken over the refuge structures, Ted Cruz and a host of vultures would be up there right now in fake camo and with a weapon pointed in all directions to get them out of there.
So they could claim the land for pipeline right-of-way and the new Disney frontier Gabby Hayes shoot-em-up memorial and tramway.
Because he’s so knowledgable.
“Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?”
Because very few birders make a living at it.
“Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?”
Because very few birders make a living at it.
“Why are the interests of ranchers of greater weight than the interests of birders?”
Because very few birders make a living at it.
Isn’t this normally where the Free Market affectionadios pipe up and tell the individual citizens that if they can’t make a good living w/o the government stepping in and giving them a competitive advantage, they need to suck it up or seek gainful employment elsewhere? Or does that argument only apply to labor, not capital?
Isn’t this normally where the Free Market affectionadios pipe up and tell the individual citizens that if they can’t make a good living w/o the government stepping in and giving them a competitive advantage, they need to suck it up or seek gainful employment elsewhere? Or does that argument only apply to labor, not capital?
Isn’t this normally where the Free Market affectionadios pipe up and tell the individual citizens that if they can’t make a good living w/o the government stepping in and giving them a competitive advantage, they need to suck it up or seek gainful employment elsewhere? Or does that argument only apply to labor, not capital?
Yes, birders. They will play a vital role in my plan, still being fleshed out, to clear the Malheur of the malcontents.
See, here’s the thing.
Birders aren’t human consumers, they are human enjoyers of one of the aesthetic wonders of Nature, which ipso fatso makes them vaguely unAmerican and likely to provoke gunfire from Ted Nugent, whose favorite word is “yummy” when interacting with other species or underaged groupies who find their way backstage.
The Wise Use people and the Sage Brush Rebellion folks before them and now the Bundy tortoise interrupters have other ideas about “resource utilization”. If you can’t shoot it and eat it, or fatten it and eat it, or just shoot it and leave it lie there, then you haven’t capitalized, rationalized, in an efficient manner, the world’s resources to their full extent, which God stipulated in holy writ.
They want use of public lands without limit. This does NOT mean they want to be good stewards of resources for later generations of hunter’s, fisherman, and your more aesthetically-inclined outdoorsmenwomenchildren. It also doesn’t mean that they are against birders doing their thing, but the birders should be aware that when they finally spot that double-tufted flapdoodle, near extinction, an Oath Keeper has every right to shoot that double-tufted flapdoodle and then send his dog, in a noisy off-road vehicle, to pick it up for later drying and jerking AS the birder observes the now dead bird through his or her glass.
There’ll be no regulation and suchlike.
Heck, if not for the Saudis and Iranians pumping oil like there is no tomorrow, the birders will be asked to move for fracking.
And if anyone thinks the States are going to raise taxes and shell it out to protect anything handed over by the federal government, think again, because Grover Norquist has most western legislatures sewed up tight with pledges out the wahoo to prevent any such thing.
Colorado is more sensible in this regard because the color blue has purpled the red.
Yes, birders. They will play a vital role in my plan, still being fleshed out, to clear the Malheur of the malcontents.
See, here’s the thing.
Birders aren’t human consumers, they are human enjoyers of one of the aesthetic wonders of Nature, which ipso fatso makes them vaguely unAmerican and likely to provoke gunfire from Ted Nugent, whose favorite word is “yummy” when interacting with other species or underaged groupies who find their way backstage.
The Wise Use people and the Sage Brush Rebellion folks before them and now the Bundy tortoise interrupters have other ideas about “resource utilization”. If you can’t shoot it and eat it, or fatten it and eat it, or just shoot it and leave it lie there, then you haven’t capitalized, rationalized, in an efficient manner, the world’s resources to their full extent, which God stipulated in holy writ.
They want use of public lands without limit. This does NOT mean they want to be good stewards of resources for later generations of hunter’s, fisherman, and your more aesthetically-inclined outdoorsmenwomenchildren. It also doesn’t mean that they are against birders doing their thing, but the birders should be aware that when they finally spot that double-tufted flapdoodle, near extinction, an Oath Keeper has every right to shoot that double-tufted flapdoodle and then send his dog, in a noisy off-road vehicle, to pick it up for later drying and jerking AS the birder observes the now dead bird through his or her glass.
There’ll be no regulation and suchlike.
Heck, if not for the Saudis and Iranians pumping oil like there is no tomorrow, the birders will be asked to move for fracking.
And if anyone thinks the States are going to raise taxes and shell it out to protect anything handed over by the federal government, think again, because Grover Norquist has most western legislatures sewed up tight with pledges out the wahoo to prevent any such thing.
Colorado is more sensible in this regard because the color blue has purpled the red.
Yes, birders. They will play a vital role in my plan, still being fleshed out, to clear the Malheur of the malcontents.
See, here’s the thing.
Birders aren’t human consumers, they are human enjoyers of one of the aesthetic wonders of Nature, which ipso fatso makes them vaguely unAmerican and likely to provoke gunfire from Ted Nugent, whose favorite word is “yummy” when interacting with other species or underaged groupies who find their way backstage.
The Wise Use people and the Sage Brush Rebellion folks before them and now the Bundy tortoise interrupters have other ideas about “resource utilization”. If you can’t shoot it and eat it, or fatten it and eat it, or just shoot it and leave it lie there, then you haven’t capitalized, rationalized, in an efficient manner, the world’s resources to their full extent, which God stipulated in holy writ.
They want use of public lands without limit. This does NOT mean they want to be good stewards of resources for later generations of hunter’s, fisherman, and your more aesthetically-inclined outdoorsmenwomenchildren. It also doesn’t mean that they are against birders doing their thing, but the birders should be aware that when they finally spot that double-tufted flapdoodle, near extinction, an Oath Keeper has every right to shoot that double-tufted flapdoodle and then send his dog, in a noisy off-road vehicle, to pick it up for later drying and jerking AS the birder observes the now dead bird through his or her glass.
There’ll be no regulation and suchlike.
Heck, if not for the Saudis and Iranians pumping oil like there is no tomorrow, the birders will be asked to move for fracking.
And if anyone thinks the States are going to raise taxes and shell it out to protect anything handed over by the federal government, think again, because Grover Norquist has most western legislatures sewed up tight with pledges out the wahoo to prevent any such thing.
Colorado is more sensible in this regard because the color blue has purpled the red.
Also, Marty, why should a smaller number of citizens’ desire to use public property to garner a profit a priori trump a larger number of citizens’ desire to use public property in a way that doesn’t make them money? I’m sure there are plenty of developers who’d gladly apply the “make a living at it” logic to command exclusive usage of the National Mall for commercial purposes if we applied that logic broadly…
Also, Marty, why should a smaller number of citizens’ desire to use public property to garner a profit a priori trump a larger number of citizens’ desire to use public property in a way that doesn’t make them money? I’m sure there are plenty of developers who’d gladly apply the “make a living at it” logic to command exclusive usage of the National Mall for commercial purposes if we applied that logic broadly…
Also, Marty, why should a smaller number of citizens’ desire to use public property to garner a profit a priori trump a larger number of citizens’ desire to use public property in a way that doesn’t make them money? I’m sure there are plenty of developers who’d gladly apply the “make a living at it” logic to command exclusive usage of the National Mall for commercial purposes if we applied that logic broadly…
I am kind of with NV and the Count, here. TANSTAAFL. If you want to use land that is not yours, learn to live within the rules.
Also, don’t set fire to the place, because it’s not yours.
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive. If this had been the first offense, it would be far too much. If they had burned a building that wasn’t theirs, I could see a stiffer penalty. As it is, I’d think you’d fine them for a first offense (fine being for various real expenses plus punitive), a bigger fine for the second offense, and a third offense would involve jail time.
I think I’ve heard that this was their second or third arson. If they were allowed to slide on earlier occasions, that’s a problem all around.
I am kind of with NV and the Count, here. TANSTAAFL. If you want to use land that is not yours, learn to live within the rules.
Also, don’t set fire to the place, because it’s not yours.
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive. If this had been the first offense, it would be far too much. If they had burned a building that wasn’t theirs, I could see a stiffer penalty. As it is, I’d think you’d fine them for a first offense (fine being for various real expenses plus punitive), a bigger fine for the second offense, and a third offense would involve jail time.
I think I’ve heard that this was their second or third arson. If they were allowed to slide on earlier occasions, that’s a problem all around.
I am kind of with NV and the Count, here. TANSTAAFL. If you want to use land that is not yours, learn to live within the rules.
Also, don’t set fire to the place, because it’s not yours.
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive. If this had been the first offense, it would be far too much. If they had burned a building that wasn’t theirs, I could see a stiffer penalty. As it is, I’d think you’d fine them for a first offense (fine being for various real expenses plus punitive), a bigger fine for the second offense, and a third offense would involve jail time.
I think I’ve heard that this was their second or third arson. If they were allowed to slide on earlier occasions, that’s a problem all around.
Because very few birders make a living at it.
I have the same question as NV.
Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?
And/or, should money-making uses be subject to limitation, for purposes of sustainability or to keep the land available for other uses in addition to the money-making ones?
Because very few birders make a living at it.
I have the same question as NV.
Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?
And/or, should money-making uses be subject to limitation, for purposes of sustainability or to keep the land available for other uses in addition to the money-making ones?
Because very few birders make a living at it.
I have the same question as NV.
Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?
And/or, should money-making uses be subject to limitation, for purposes of sustainability or to keep the land available for other uses in addition to the money-making ones?
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive
FWIW, I also agree that 5 years for burning grazing land is excessive. Sending a guy in his 70’s to jail for years for a non-violent offense, likewise.
My understanding is the the Hammonds had a history of conflict with the feds, but that doesn’t really change my opinion on that point.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
All IMO..
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive
FWIW, I also agree that 5 years for burning grazing land is excessive. Sending a guy in his 70’s to jail for years for a non-violent offense, likewise.
My understanding is the the Hammonds had a history of conflict with the feds, but that doesn’t really change my opinion on that point.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
All IMO..
I completely sympathize with the POV that 5 years for burning some scrubland is way too excessive
FWIW, I also agree that 5 years for burning grazing land is excessive. Sending a guy in his 70’s to jail for years for a non-violent offense, likewise.
My understanding is the the Hammonds had a history of conflict with the feds, but that doesn’t really change my opinion on that point.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
All IMO..
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
The ‘terror’ laws ALL have this kind of effect and it’s why they are BAD laws. They can EASILY be used in ways advocates didn’t expect and applied in whatever way the enforcers want.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
The ‘terror’ laws ALL have this kind of effect and it’s why they are BAD laws. They can EASILY be used in ways advocates didn’t expect and applied in whatever way the enforcers want.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
The ‘terror’ laws ALL have this kind of effect and it’s why they are BAD laws. They can EASILY be used in ways advocates didn’t expect and applied in whatever way the enforcers want.
Apparently, the elder Hammond threatened the lives of folks just trying to do their jobs back in the day.
Walk up to someone on the street or in a bar and see what that behavior gets you. Eat your Skittles before it’s too late to enjoy them.
You want a bullet or the jail time?
Heck, why shouldn’t government employees claim protection under “make my day” laws against these mortal threats?
But the Bundys got away with it, big time. That sets a very bad precedent. Mostly because it gives me ideas.
Agreed, five years is overkill. But if I set fire to the Hammond’s private grasslands, what kind of time am I looking at?
Probably none, because they would shoot me in the head.
I agree that minimum sentencing laws are a crock.
We can thank the Citizen Initiative Process in some states and the Democratic Party’s cowardly caving in 1986 to conservative hysteria over crime, especially over drug crimes. Especially black drug crime.
Three strikes and you’re out, even if the third strike was a purloined pepperoni pizza in California. 1994.
Why isn’t Cliven Bundy being Willie Hortoned?
Apparently, the elder Hammond threatened the lives of folks just trying to do their jobs back in the day.
Walk up to someone on the street or in a bar and see what that behavior gets you. Eat your Skittles before it’s too late to enjoy them.
You want a bullet or the jail time?
Heck, why shouldn’t government employees claim protection under “make my day” laws against these mortal threats?
But the Bundys got away with it, big time. That sets a very bad precedent. Mostly because it gives me ideas.
Agreed, five years is overkill. But if I set fire to the Hammond’s private grasslands, what kind of time am I looking at?
Probably none, because they would shoot me in the head.
I agree that minimum sentencing laws are a crock.
We can thank the Citizen Initiative Process in some states and the Democratic Party’s cowardly caving in 1986 to conservative hysteria over crime, especially over drug crimes. Especially black drug crime.
Three strikes and you’re out, even if the third strike was a purloined pepperoni pizza in California. 1994.
Why isn’t Cliven Bundy being Willie Hortoned?
Apparently, the elder Hammond threatened the lives of folks just trying to do their jobs back in the day.
Walk up to someone on the street or in a bar and see what that behavior gets you. Eat your Skittles before it’s too late to enjoy them.
You want a bullet or the jail time?
Heck, why shouldn’t government employees claim protection under “make my day” laws against these mortal threats?
But the Bundys got away with it, big time. That sets a very bad precedent. Mostly because it gives me ideas.
Agreed, five years is overkill. But if I set fire to the Hammond’s private grasslands, what kind of time am I looking at?
Probably none, because they would shoot me in the head.
I agree that minimum sentencing laws are a crock.
We can thank the Citizen Initiative Process in some states and the Democratic Party’s cowardly caving in 1986 to conservative hysteria over crime, especially over drug crimes. Especially black drug crime.
Three strikes and you’re out, even if the third strike was a purloined pepperoni pizza in California. 1994.
Why isn’t Cliven Bundy being Willie Hortoned?
The NYT has published several opinion pieces on this–here is one on the history of the preserve which debunks ( yet again) the heroic myths about rugged individualist Utopias that used to exist before the government stepped in.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/in-oregon-myth-mixes-with-anger.html?ref=opinion
The NYT has published several opinion pieces on this–here is one on the history of the preserve which debunks ( yet again) the heroic myths about rugged individualist Utopias that used to exist before the government stepped in.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/in-oregon-myth-mixes-with-anger.html?ref=opinion
The NYT has published several opinion pieces on this–here is one on the history of the preserve which debunks ( yet again) the heroic myths about rugged individualist Utopias that used to exist before the government stepped in.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/in-oregon-myth-mixes-with-anger.html?ref=opinion
Gabby Hayes
had to look that one up, because it didn’t seem like you’d be talking about Gibby Haynes and Disney in the same sentence.
Gabby Hayes
had to look that one up, because it didn’t seem like you’d be talking about Gibby Haynes and Disney in the same sentence.
Gabby Hayes
had to look that one up, because it didn’t seem like you’d be talking about Gibby Haynes and Disney in the same sentence.
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way
But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too. The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal. A chunk gotten given out for homesteading as the railroads were built. (Square mile chunks on alternative sides of the tracks, if memory serves.)
The Homestead Act(s) provided for further land to pass into private ownership. But a) the more recent acts limited the homesteads to 1 square mile (the earlier ones were a quarter of that), and b) homesteading (outside Alaska) was discontinued in 1976.
So it would seem that what the protesters are objecting to is that they were born too late. For which they should be blaming their parents, not the Federal government. 😉
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way
But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too. The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal. A chunk gotten given out for homesteading as the railroads were built. (Square mile chunks on alternative sides of the tracks, if memory serves.)
The Homestead Act(s) provided for further land to pass into private ownership. But a) the more recent acts limited the homesteads to 1 square mile (the earlier ones were a quarter of that), and b) homesteading (outside Alaska) was discontinued in 1976.
So it would seem that what the protesters are objecting to is that they were born too late. For which they should be blaming their parents, not the Federal government. 😉
All of the coastal waters of Massachusetts, including Boston Harbor, are under federal authority almost exclusively. That’s not thought of as a federal vs. state/local issue because it’s always been that way
But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too. The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal. A chunk gotten given out for homesteading as the railroads were built. (Square mile chunks on alternative sides of the tracks, if memory serves.)
The Homestead Act(s) provided for further land to pass into private ownership. But a) the more recent acts limited the homesteads to 1 square mile (the earlier ones were a quarter of that), and b) homesteading (outside Alaska) was discontinued in 1976.
So it would seem that what the protesters are objecting to is that they were born too late. For which they should be blaming their parents, not the Federal government. 😉
The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal.
It’s hard to think of any that didn’t.
Oregon, specifically, and what became the Oregon Territory, were a bit of a jump ball until the mid-19th C. because multiple countries claimed it. We basically shared it with the Brits from about 1818, then split it at the 49th parallel in the 1850’s. The Brits got BC and Vancouver.
That, the Louisiana Territory, and what we took or bought from Mexico, accounts for pretty much everything west of the Mississippi, I think.
The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal.
It’s hard to think of any that didn’t.
Oregon, specifically, and what became the Oregon Territory, were a bit of a jump ball until the mid-19th C. because multiple countries claimed it. We basically shared it with the Brits from about 1818, then split it at the 49th parallel in the 1850’s. The Brits got BC and Vancouver.
That, the Louisiana Territory, and what we took or bought from Mexico, accounts for pretty much everything west of the Mississippi, I think.
The vast majority of the land west of the Mississippi started out as Federal.
It’s hard to think of any that didn’t.
Oregon, specifically, and what became the Oregon Territory, were a bit of a jump ball until the mid-19th C. because multiple countries claimed it. We basically shared it with the Brits from about 1818, then split it at the 49th parallel in the 1850’s. The Brits got BC and Vancouver.
That, the Louisiana Territory, and what we took or bought from Mexico, accounts for pretty much everything west of the Mississippi, I think.
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive.
Some war or another, sure, but not the same war involving the same people under the same circumstances at the same point in history. They’re all different. It’s like saying all wars involved some human beings or others, so discussing wars in terms of human beings is neither illuminative or productive. I could make the same statement about all of human history to heighten the absurdity.
And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
How so? It’s simply another aspect of the relevant history. Maybe you could expand on your particular reasoning here, or was it just something you blurted out in a generalized kvetch without any particular reasoning?
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive.
Some war or another, sure, but not the same war involving the same people under the same circumstances at the same point in history. They’re all different. It’s like saying all wars involved some human beings or others, so discussing wars in terms of human beings is neither illuminative or productive. I could make the same statement about all of human history to heighten the absurdity.
And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
How so? It’s simply another aspect of the relevant history. Maybe you could expand on your particular reasoning here, or was it just something you blurted out in a generalized kvetch without any particular reasoning?
Pretty much all land, in the world, is the spoils of some war or another. Looking at the land in that way is neither illuminative or productive.
Some war or another, sure, but not the same war involving the same people under the same circumstances at the same point in history. They’re all different. It’s like saying all wars involved some human beings or others, so discussing wars in terms of human beings is neither illuminative or productive. I could make the same statement about all of human history to heighten the absurdity.
And even less when it changes the rights of neighboring ranchers, loggers etc. arbitrarily.
How so? It’s simply another aspect of the relevant history. Maybe you could expand on your particular reasoning here, or was it just something you blurted out in a generalized kvetch without any particular reasoning?
The US government spent over half a century trying to give the land in question (and much of the West) to to anyone who would accept title and “improve” it. The Hammond progenitors apparently accepted ownership of a huge landholding, adjoining what is now Malheur, but there were limits to their appetite, maybe because it was and is a vast, fluctuating wetland, which in the 19th century was regarded as “wasteland”, unfit for exploitation.
Now their great-grandchildren feel entitled to act as if they own the land their ancestors refused. I find it hard to sympathize — without the initial federal largesse, they would own no land at all.
Incidentally, the Malheur marsh, formerly an important flyway site for Western migratory waterfowl, is now almost completely degraded by European brown carp, which have destroyed most of the emergent vegetation and thus most of the native species. Repeated efforts to mitigate this invasion have failed.
The US government spent over half a century trying to give the land in question (and much of the West) to to anyone who would accept title and “improve” it. The Hammond progenitors apparently accepted ownership of a huge landholding, adjoining what is now Malheur, but there were limits to their appetite, maybe because it was and is a vast, fluctuating wetland, which in the 19th century was regarded as “wasteland”, unfit for exploitation.
Now their great-grandchildren feel entitled to act as if they own the land their ancestors refused. I find it hard to sympathize — without the initial federal largesse, they would own no land at all.
Incidentally, the Malheur marsh, formerly an important flyway site for Western migratory waterfowl, is now almost completely degraded by European brown carp, which have destroyed most of the emergent vegetation and thus most of the native species. Repeated efforts to mitigate this invasion have failed.
The US government spent over half a century trying to give the land in question (and much of the West) to to anyone who would accept title and “improve” it. The Hammond progenitors apparently accepted ownership of a huge landholding, adjoining what is now Malheur, but there were limits to their appetite, maybe because it was and is a vast, fluctuating wetland, which in the 19th century was regarded as “wasteland”, unfit for exploitation.
Now their great-grandchildren feel entitled to act as if they own the land their ancestors refused. I find it hard to sympathize — without the initial federal largesse, they would own no land at all.
Incidentally, the Malheur marsh, formerly an important flyway site for Western migratory waterfowl, is now almost completely degraded by European brown carp, which have destroyed most of the emergent vegetation and thus most of the native species. Repeated efforts to mitigate this invasion have failed.
Russell, I was thinking particularly of California (although, now that I think of it, Texas qualifies, too, and maybe parts of New Mexico as well). Big chunks of all were owned by private individuals before ever they became US territory. But for the rest, yeah, pretty much all of it started Federal.
Russell, I was thinking particularly of California (although, now that I think of it, Texas qualifies, too, and maybe parts of New Mexico as well). Big chunks of all were owned by private individuals before ever they became US territory. But for the rest, yeah, pretty much all of it started Federal.
Russell, I was thinking particularly of California (although, now that I think of it, Texas qualifies, too, and maybe parts of New Mexico as well). Big chunks of all were owned by private individuals before ever they became US territory. But for the rest, yeah, pretty much all of it started Federal.
Ah, I was thinking of TX as having come in via the Mexican War.
Which is sort of true, but TX was its own country, with likely a significant amount of private ownership, at the time it became a state.
Ah, I was thinking of TX as having come in via the Mexican War.
Which is sort of true, but TX was its own country, with likely a significant amount of private ownership, at the time it became a state.
Ah, I was thinking of TX as having come in via the Mexican War.
Which is sort of true, but TX was its own country, with likely a significant amount of private ownership, at the time it became a state.
Everyplace was someone else’s first, and will likely pass on to another someone else, or something else, depending on how much time passes before SMOD.
Everyplace was someone else’s first, and will likely pass on to another someone else, or something else, depending on how much time passes before SMOD.
Everyplace was someone else’s first, and will likely pass on to another someone else, or something else, depending on how much time passes before SMOD.
what joel hanes said.
when Nevada joined the union, there were maybe 9,000 people living there. most of the land was uninhabitable, and economically unvaiable at 160 acres a crack. Even with a bigger allotment, homesteading did not work.
So basically, the public has subsidized the use of this land (mining, ranching, tourism) ever since.
As a member of that public, I’m not yet willing to sell.
If the feds had just ‘given’ this land to the new state (fyi, a procedure not followed anywhere east of the mississippi)you can be sure it would have created an instant landed aristocracy.
just what our democracy needs!
what joel hanes said.
when Nevada joined the union, there were maybe 9,000 people living there. most of the land was uninhabitable, and economically unvaiable at 160 acres a crack. Even with a bigger allotment, homesteading did not work.
So basically, the public has subsidized the use of this land (mining, ranching, tourism) ever since.
As a member of that public, I’m not yet willing to sell.
If the feds had just ‘given’ this land to the new state (fyi, a procedure not followed anywhere east of the mississippi)you can be sure it would have created an instant landed aristocracy.
just what our democracy needs!
what joel hanes said.
when Nevada joined the union, there were maybe 9,000 people living there. most of the land was uninhabitable, and economically unvaiable at 160 acres a crack. Even with a bigger allotment, homesteading did not work.
So basically, the public has subsidized the use of this land (mining, ranching, tourism) ever since.
As a member of that public, I’m not yet willing to sell.
If the feds had just ‘given’ this land to the new state (fyi, a procedure not followed anywhere east of the mississippi)you can be sure it would have created an instant landed aristocracy.
just what our democracy needs!
The relationship between westerners and the public lands is… complicated. My perspective is based on time spent on the permanent non-partisan legislative staff in Colorado.
When I say “the West”, I mean the 11 states in yellow in the cartogram linked at the end of this comment, where state size reflects the size of the federal land holdings. From the perspective of federal lands, Texas doesn’t make the cut. When Texas joined the Union, they gave up large areas of what are now New Mexico and Colorado, where they had a dubious claim, to the federal government in exchange for the feds not taking very much of the actual Texas.
If agriculture is involved, then the argument in the West is about water — first, last, and always. At bottom, the ranchers in the Harney Basin don’t care about anything except how much water they can divert. Absent that water, they’re out of business. Oregon, like other states in the West, has its own laws for establishing water use rights. The big complaint about the feds and water is that case law in federal courts has established that the federal agencies aren’t bound by those laws. If the feds decide to expand a wildlife refuge, and that they need a bigger share of the available water, they can simply take it — starting tomorrow, and without owing anyone any compensation. State legislators, both rural and urban, live in a certain amount of fear of that power. Eg, if the feds decide they need more water running down the Colorado River in Utah, they could simply stop Denver’s diversion of that water. There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
The checkerboard pattern of land grants is much more extensive than comments that have mentioned it suggest. The purpose of those grants was only partially to establish right-of-way for the railroads; at least as important was that the railroads were expected to sell the land in order to finance their construction budgets. State legislatures have wanted to normalize the land holdings because certain federal classifications can make the private parts of the checkerboard worthless. There’s never been much incentive for the feds to give up that power.
A common statement from eastern folks is that westerners can’t be trusted to “care for” the public lands — the states would turn the ranchers and lumber companies and mining concerns loose to rape and pillage. A hundred years ago that was probably true. Worth noting that the initiative and recall provisions in most western state constitutions grew directly out of eastern timber and mining companies buying key votes in western legislatures to enable exactly that kind of behavior. Today, western states generally — and there are exceptions — charge higher grazing fees than the feds and hold mining companies to tougher reclamation standards than the feds.
Rural resentment over federal land policies rises and falls over a roughly 30-year cycle. We’re around the peak of such a cycle these days. This time around we’re also seeing a lot of in-state resentment. The West, in terms of its population, has always been less rural then the myths. That’s more true than ever, and in this cycle we’re seeing more rural secession movements: Colorado’s 51st State movement, the State of Jefferson folks in northern California and southwest Oregon, etc. We’re also seeing the rural folks demanding that the public lands be turned over to the counties, not the states, since the western urban areas that increasingly dominate the state legislatures are not likely to be any better than the feds, from the rural perspective.
http://www.mcain6925.com/etc/holdings.jpg
The relationship between westerners and the public lands is… complicated. My perspective is based on time spent on the permanent non-partisan legislative staff in Colorado.
When I say “the West”, I mean the 11 states in yellow in the cartogram linked at the end of this comment, where state size reflects the size of the federal land holdings. From the perspective of federal lands, Texas doesn’t make the cut. When Texas joined the Union, they gave up large areas of what are now New Mexico and Colorado, where they had a dubious claim, to the federal government in exchange for the feds not taking very much of the actual Texas.
If agriculture is involved, then the argument in the West is about water — first, last, and always. At bottom, the ranchers in the Harney Basin don’t care about anything except how much water they can divert. Absent that water, they’re out of business. Oregon, like other states in the West, has its own laws for establishing water use rights. The big complaint about the feds and water is that case law in federal courts has established that the federal agencies aren’t bound by those laws. If the feds decide to expand a wildlife refuge, and that they need a bigger share of the available water, they can simply take it — starting tomorrow, and without owing anyone any compensation. State legislators, both rural and urban, live in a certain amount of fear of that power. Eg, if the feds decide they need more water running down the Colorado River in Utah, they could simply stop Denver’s diversion of that water. There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
The checkerboard pattern of land grants is much more extensive than comments that have mentioned it suggest. The purpose of those grants was only partially to establish right-of-way for the railroads; at least as important was that the railroads were expected to sell the land in order to finance their construction budgets. State legislatures have wanted to normalize the land holdings because certain federal classifications can make the private parts of the checkerboard worthless. There’s never been much incentive for the feds to give up that power.
A common statement from eastern folks is that westerners can’t be trusted to “care for” the public lands — the states would turn the ranchers and lumber companies and mining concerns loose to rape and pillage. A hundred years ago that was probably true. Worth noting that the initiative and recall provisions in most western state constitutions grew directly out of eastern timber and mining companies buying key votes in western legislatures to enable exactly that kind of behavior. Today, western states generally — and there are exceptions — charge higher grazing fees than the feds and hold mining companies to tougher reclamation standards than the feds.
Rural resentment over federal land policies rises and falls over a roughly 30-year cycle. We’re around the peak of such a cycle these days. This time around we’re also seeing a lot of in-state resentment. The West, in terms of its population, has always been less rural then the myths. That’s more true than ever, and in this cycle we’re seeing more rural secession movements: Colorado’s 51st State movement, the State of Jefferson folks in northern California and southwest Oregon, etc. We’re also seeing the rural folks demanding that the public lands be turned over to the counties, not the states, since the western urban areas that increasingly dominate the state legislatures are not likely to be any better than the feds, from the rural perspective.
http://www.mcain6925.com/etc/holdings.jpg
The relationship between westerners and the public lands is… complicated. My perspective is based on time spent on the permanent non-partisan legislative staff in Colorado.
When I say “the West”, I mean the 11 states in yellow in the cartogram linked at the end of this comment, where state size reflects the size of the federal land holdings. From the perspective of federal lands, Texas doesn’t make the cut. When Texas joined the Union, they gave up large areas of what are now New Mexico and Colorado, where they had a dubious claim, to the federal government in exchange for the feds not taking very much of the actual Texas.
If agriculture is involved, then the argument in the West is about water — first, last, and always. At bottom, the ranchers in the Harney Basin don’t care about anything except how much water they can divert. Absent that water, they’re out of business. Oregon, like other states in the West, has its own laws for establishing water use rights. The big complaint about the feds and water is that case law in federal courts has established that the federal agencies aren’t bound by those laws. If the feds decide to expand a wildlife refuge, and that they need a bigger share of the available water, they can simply take it — starting tomorrow, and without owing anyone any compensation. State legislators, both rural and urban, live in a certain amount of fear of that power. Eg, if the feds decide they need more water running down the Colorado River in Utah, they could simply stop Denver’s diversion of that water. There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
The checkerboard pattern of land grants is much more extensive than comments that have mentioned it suggest. The purpose of those grants was only partially to establish right-of-way for the railroads; at least as important was that the railroads were expected to sell the land in order to finance their construction budgets. State legislatures have wanted to normalize the land holdings because certain federal classifications can make the private parts of the checkerboard worthless. There’s never been much incentive for the feds to give up that power.
A common statement from eastern folks is that westerners can’t be trusted to “care for” the public lands — the states would turn the ranchers and lumber companies and mining concerns loose to rape and pillage. A hundred years ago that was probably true. Worth noting that the initiative and recall provisions in most western state constitutions grew directly out of eastern timber and mining companies buying key votes in western legislatures to enable exactly that kind of behavior. Today, western states generally — and there are exceptions — charge higher grazing fees than the feds and hold mining companies to tougher reclamation standards than the feds.
Rural resentment over federal land policies rises and falls over a roughly 30-year cycle. We’re around the peak of such a cycle these days. This time around we’re also seeing a lot of in-state resentment. The West, in terms of its population, has always been less rural then the myths. That’s more true than ever, and in this cycle we’re seeing more rural secession movements: Colorado’s 51st State movement, the State of Jefferson folks in northern California and southwest Oregon, etc. We’re also seeing the rural folks demanding that the public lands be turned over to the counties, not the states, since the western urban areas that increasingly dominate the state legislatures are not likely to be any better than the feds, from the rural perspective.
http://www.mcain6925.com/etc/holdings.jpg
good points Michael Cain.
There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
Equally, there is a certain amount of urban resentment at the over-representation of rural states in the U.S. Senate.
I smell compromise….but alas, it would appear that these folks are just a sliver of the population even in those states.
good points Michael Cain.
There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
Equally, there is a certain amount of urban resentment at the over-representation of rural states in the U.S. Senate.
I smell compromise….but alas, it would appear that these folks are just a sliver of the population even in those states.
good points Michael Cain.
There’s a certain amount of resentment, as well, that federal legislators from Massachusetts or Alabama get as big a say in such a decision as those from Colorado.
Equally, there is a certain amount of urban resentment at the over-representation of rural states in the U.S. Senate.
I smell compromise….but alas, it would appear that these folks are just a sliver of the population even in those states.
They’ve hit the big-time now:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/7/1467047/-Donald-Trump-Veterans-for-Trump-co-chair-joins-Oregon-militia-standoff
It’s now a whole new ballgame, folks.
The ha-ha part of it is over. Time for serious people to move in.
Like Marty said, it will be a historic mistake to ignore Trump.
He and a few members of Congress lending legitimacy to these clowns certainly shouldn’t be ignored by law enforcement.
As in whatever FBI division investigates domestic insurrection and seditious conspiracy.
Historic indeed.
So was the Shays Rebellion.
George Washington, the well-known liberal cross-dresser, came out of retirement to urge a stronger central government to counter this kind of crap.
Take it up with him.
Step One of My Plan:
To split the clown loyalty as to which location to defend, the Feds need to arrest Cliven Bundy and whatever militia remnant remain at the Bundy compound in Nevada for the numerous crimes he has committed against the American people regarding grazing fees in arrears and threatening federal employees and locals with murder during that insurrection. This might draw the two Bundy Brothers back from Oregon and they can be apprehended and arrested in transit or taken out as they drive their 4 by 4s on roads I f*cking paid for.
This will reduce manpower at the Oregon site and also deplete their food stores because I’m sure the Bundy boys will demand that the Cheetos and Slim Jims and most of the water supply leave with them or there will be hell to pay.
Step Two:
This rodeo clown stool needs a third leg to make things interesting and take some of the pressure off the hated government.
Organize a several hundred-person strong liberal militia, though moderates will be welcome as well, to train for wintertime warfare and with military weaponry. Cross-country skiing aptitude would be helpful. Deploy at the northern, western, and eastern borders of the preserve and move mostly at night because eastern Oregon is high desert and somewhat open country, to positions surrounding the Fish and Wildlife structures and begin paintball sniper harassment of the subjects.
The militia should be made up of equal parts birdwatchers and tree huggers, Black Lives Matter activists, survivors and family members of those murdered at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma by the precursors of these jackasses, and … because what would vengeance be without them .. just some plain crazy motherf8ckers who are looking to f*ck the right-wing up once and for all and forever.
Someone goes out for a smoke, take them out.
By which I mean depants them, blindfold then and face them into the deep back country for their final hike.
Disable their vehicles at night. Set up a sound system at full volume and blast Vietnamese pop music, Muslim calls-to-prayer, and native American war chants 24-hours a day.
If that doesn’t work, play Ted Nugent’s Cat Scratch Fever at high decibel levels until the cows go away. Turn up the treble way high.
This will cause even the so-called veterans among the perpetrators who didn’t see combat in any recent wars or even leave stateside to shit their camo briefs as they experience false flashbacks of gooks and towelheads they only made up raping and murdering in their fever dreams on the internet to impress Moe Lane over at Redstate.
They’ll run screaming into the militia’s waiting arms.
Should the miscreants not get the hint, begin mixing in real ammo with the distance paintball marksmanship.
Don’t kill them — I’m not the violent sort — but use a little sense unlike the conservative cops who shoot unarmed black kids in the back thirty times and just craze them. Shoot their cowboy hats off. Bust every window in the joint.
If possible, kidnap the idiots who stray away from the compound too far and strap them to the odd tree or rocky prominence visible from the compound and tickle their exposed bare feet so its sounds like they’ve gone mad with cackling and pleading to stop the torture.
Now if the clowns shoot back with live ammo, the militia should act like republicans and make everyone’s day with live ammo right between the eyes.
Take this so far that the right-wing douchebags inside the compound finally make the call to the government to please by God come protect us and get our butts back to town.
Third:
Deploy autonomous and very heavily armed liberal militia cadres to locate the families of these jackelopes across the country and seize their properties and hold them for protection against the wrath of the American people. If the liberal militia members own cattle or other ruminants, bring them along and let them graze gratis on the lawns and shrubbery of these patriots’ property.
Fourth:
What would a an armed liberal militia attack and takeover be without addressing the presence of NRA headquarters and personnel on American soil?
Details on that later.
They’ve hit the big-time now:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/7/1467047/-Donald-Trump-Veterans-for-Trump-co-chair-joins-Oregon-militia-standoff
It’s now a whole new ballgame, folks.
The ha-ha part of it is over. Time for serious people to move in.
Like Marty said, it will be a historic mistake to ignore Trump.
He and a few members of Congress lending legitimacy to these clowns certainly shouldn’t be ignored by law enforcement.
As in whatever FBI division investigates domestic insurrection and seditious conspiracy.
Historic indeed.
So was the Shays Rebellion.
George Washington, the well-known liberal cross-dresser, came out of retirement to urge a stronger central government to counter this kind of crap.
Take it up with him.
Step One of My Plan:
To split the clown loyalty as to which location to defend, the Feds need to arrest Cliven Bundy and whatever militia remnant remain at the Bundy compound in Nevada for the numerous crimes he has committed against the American people regarding grazing fees in arrears and threatening federal employees and locals with murder during that insurrection. This might draw the two Bundy Brothers back from Oregon and they can be apprehended and arrested in transit or taken out as they drive their 4 by 4s on roads I f*cking paid for.
This will reduce manpower at the Oregon site and also deplete their food stores because I’m sure the Bundy boys will demand that the Cheetos and Slim Jims and most of the water supply leave with them or there will be hell to pay.
Step Two:
This rodeo clown stool needs a third leg to make things interesting and take some of the pressure off the hated government.
Organize a several hundred-person strong liberal militia, though moderates will be welcome as well, to train for wintertime warfare and with military weaponry. Cross-country skiing aptitude would be helpful. Deploy at the northern, western, and eastern borders of the preserve and move mostly at night because eastern Oregon is high desert and somewhat open country, to positions surrounding the Fish and Wildlife structures and begin paintball sniper harassment of the subjects.
The militia should be made up of equal parts birdwatchers and tree huggers, Black Lives Matter activists, survivors and family members of those murdered at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma by the precursors of these jackasses, and … because what would vengeance be without them .. just some plain crazy motherf8ckers who are looking to f*ck the right-wing up once and for all and forever.
Someone goes out for a smoke, take them out.
By which I mean depants them, blindfold then and face them into the deep back country for their final hike.
Disable their vehicles at night. Set up a sound system at full volume and blast Vietnamese pop music, Muslim calls-to-prayer, and native American war chants 24-hours a day.
If that doesn’t work, play Ted Nugent’s Cat Scratch Fever at high decibel levels until the cows go away. Turn up the treble way high.
This will cause even the so-called veterans among the perpetrators who didn’t see combat in any recent wars or even leave stateside to shit their camo briefs as they experience false flashbacks of gooks and towelheads they only made up raping and murdering in their fever dreams on the internet to impress Moe Lane over at Redstate.
They’ll run screaming into the militia’s waiting arms.
Should the miscreants not get the hint, begin mixing in real ammo with the distance paintball marksmanship.
Don’t kill them — I’m not the violent sort — but use a little sense unlike the conservative cops who shoot unarmed black kids in the back thirty times and just craze them. Shoot their cowboy hats off. Bust every window in the joint.
If possible, kidnap the idiots who stray away from the compound too far and strap them to the odd tree or rocky prominence visible from the compound and tickle their exposed bare feet so its sounds like they’ve gone mad with cackling and pleading to stop the torture.
Now if the clowns shoot back with live ammo, the militia should act like republicans and make everyone’s day with live ammo right between the eyes.
Take this so far that the right-wing douchebags inside the compound finally make the call to the government to please by God come protect us and get our butts back to town.
Third:
Deploy autonomous and very heavily armed liberal militia cadres to locate the families of these jackelopes across the country and seize their properties and hold them for protection against the wrath of the American people. If the liberal militia members own cattle or other ruminants, bring them along and let them graze gratis on the lawns and shrubbery of these patriots’ property.
Fourth:
What would a an armed liberal militia attack and takeover be without addressing the presence of NRA headquarters and personnel on American soil?
Details on that later.
They’ve hit the big-time now:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/7/1467047/-Donald-Trump-Veterans-for-Trump-co-chair-joins-Oregon-militia-standoff
It’s now a whole new ballgame, folks.
The ha-ha part of it is over. Time for serious people to move in.
Like Marty said, it will be a historic mistake to ignore Trump.
He and a few members of Congress lending legitimacy to these clowns certainly shouldn’t be ignored by law enforcement.
As in whatever FBI division investigates domestic insurrection and seditious conspiracy.
Historic indeed.
So was the Shays Rebellion.
George Washington, the well-known liberal cross-dresser, came out of retirement to urge a stronger central government to counter this kind of crap.
Take it up with him.
Step One of My Plan:
To split the clown loyalty as to which location to defend, the Feds need to arrest Cliven Bundy and whatever militia remnant remain at the Bundy compound in Nevada for the numerous crimes he has committed against the American people regarding grazing fees in arrears and threatening federal employees and locals with murder during that insurrection. This might draw the two Bundy Brothers back from Oregon and they can be apprehended and arrested in transit or taken out as they drive their 4 by 4s on roads I f*cking paid for.
This will reduce manpower at the Oregon site and also deplete their food stores because I’m sure the Bundy boys will demand that the Cheetos and Slim Jims and most of the water supply leave with them or there will be hell to pay.
Step Two:
This rodeo clown stool needs a third leg to make things interesting and take some of the pressure off the hated government.
Organize a several hundred-person strong liberal militia, though moderates will be welcome as well, to train for wintertime warfare and with military weaponry. Cross-country skiing aptitude would be helpful. Deploy at the northern, western, and eastern borders of the preserve and move mostly at night because eastern Oregon is high desert and somewhat open country, to positions surrounding the Fish and Wildlife structures and begin paintball sniper harassment of the subjects.
The militia should be made up of equal parts birdwatchers and tree huggers, Black Lives Matter activists, survivors and family members of those murdered at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma by the precursors of these jackasses, and … because what would vengeance be without them .. just some plain crazy motherf8ckers who are looking to f*ck the right-wing up once and for all and forever.
Someone goes out for a smoke, take them out.
By which I mean depants them, blindfold then and face them into the deep back country for their final hike.
Disable their vehicles at night. Set up a sound system at full volume and blast Vietnamese pop music, Muslim calls-to-prayer, and native American war chants 24-hours a day.
If that doesn’t work, play Ted Nugent’s Cat Scratch Fever at high decibel levels until the cows go away. Turn up the treble way high.
This will cause even the so-called veterans among the perpetrators who didn’t see combat in any recent wars or even leave stateside to shit their camo briefs as they experience false flashbacks of gooks and towelheads they only made up raping and murdering in their fever dreams on the internet to impress Moe Lane over at Redstate.
They’ll run screaming into the militia’s waiting arms.
Should the miscreants not get the hint, begin mixing in real ammo with the distance paintball marksmanship.
Don’t kill them — I’m not the violent sort — but use a little sense unlike the conservative cops who shoot unarmed black kids in the back thirty times and just craze them. Shoot their cowboy hats off. Bust every window in the joint.
If possible, kidnap the idiots who stray away from the compound too far and strap them to the odd tree or rocky prominence visible from the compound and tickle their exposed bare feet so its sounds like they’ve gone mad with cackling and pleading to stop the torture.
Now if the clowns shoot back with live ammo, the militia should act like republicans and make everyone’s day with live ammo right between the eyes.
Take this so far that the right-wing douchebags inside the compound finally make the call to the government to please by God come protect us and get our butts back to town.
Third:
Deploy autonomous and very heavily armed liberal militia cadres to locate the families of these jackelopes across the country and seize their properties and hold them for protection against the wrath of the American people. If the liberal militia members own cattle or other ruminants, bring them along and let them graze gratis on the lawns and shrubbery of these patriots’ property.
Fourth:
What would a an armed liberal militia attack and takeover be without addressing the presence of NRA headquarters and personnel on American soil?
Details on that later.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
Actually….
Well, for starters, the 5 year minimum isn’t exactly out of line with state laws. Arson has, historically (and by ‘historically” I mean “back to English Common law and before. Heck, there’s some choice tidbits about arsonists in the Bible) been treated as being right below “murder” in terms of severity of punishment.
Which makes sense, if you think about it. Fire spreads. The difference between burning an acre of your land and 100,000 acres of your fellow’s lands is based a lot on luck. Best not to set fires you can’t control if you’re not bonded, insured, and as expert as possible.
Secondly, given the damages from the two fires (high six figures), 5 years (served concurrently was the deal after they were convicted on those two counts) is actually a really sweet deal for 6 figures in damages.
The arson change slipped into the terrorism law was really small, and utterly unrelated to terrorism — except for the fact that federal property might be targeted.
Were I King of America, the only change I’d make is giving some flex in the minimums based on costs. 5 years for anything over 100k in damages would be about right. That’d be a class A felony in Texas, and a class-A arson felony is…well, 5 years would be a sweet deal.
I hear a lot about “It was only 150 acres” and “there was nothing there” and “it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the total federal land there” and I think “The difference between a 150 acre fire and a 100k acre fire that destroys towns is…wind, really.”. Especially given the SECOND fire, the 1 acre one? During a burn ban, forcing nearby firefighters to have to relocate because it got into the way of the fires they were already fighting.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
Actually….
Well, for starters, the 5 year minimum isn’t exactly out of line with state laws. Arson has, historically (and by ‘historically” I mean “back to English Common law and before. Heck, there’s some choice tidbits about arsonists in the Bible) been treated as being right below “murder” in terms of severity of punishment.
Which makes sense, if you think about it. Fire spreads. The difference between burning an acre of your land and 100,000 acres of your fellow’s lands is based a lot on luck. Best not to set fires you can’t control if you’re not bonded, insured, and as expert as possible.
Secondly, given the damages from the two fires (high six figures), 5 years (served concurrently was the deal after they were convicted on those two counts) is actually a really sweet deal for 6 figures in damages.
The arson change slipped into the terrorism law was really small, and utterly unrelated to terrorism — except for the fact that federal property might be targeted.
Were I King of America, the only change I’d make is giving some flex in the minimums based on costs. 5 years for anything over 100k in damages would be about right. That’d be a class A felony in Texas, and a class-A arson felony is…well, 5 years would be a sweet deal.
I hear a lot about “It was only 150 acres” and “there was nothing there” and “it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the total federal land there” and I think “The difference between a 150 acre fire and a 100k acre fire that destroys towns is…wind, really.”. Especially given the SECOND fire, the 1 acre one? During a burn ban, forcing nearby firefighters to have to relocate because it got into the way of the fires they were already fighting.
The law as written seems ill-thought-out. Laws intended for acts of terror shouldn’t be able to be applied to ranchers burning public grazing land, deliberately or otherwise. Mandatory minimums are a bad idea, full stop.
Actually….
Well, for starters, the 5 year minimum isn’t exactly out of line with state laws. Arson has, historically (and by ‘historically” I mean “back to English Common law and before. Heck, there’s some choice tidbits about arsonists in the Bible) been treated as being right below “murder” in terms of severity of punishment.
Which makes sense, if you think about it. Fire spreads. The difference between burning an acre of your land and 100,000 acres of your fellow’s lands is based a lot on luck. Best not to set fires you can’t control if you’re not bonded, insured, and as expert as possible.
Secondly, given the damages from the two fires (high six figures), 5 years (served concurrently was the deal after they were convicted on those two counts) is actually a really sweet deal for 6 figures in damages.
The arson change slipped into the terrorism law was really small, and utterly unrelated to terrorism — except for the fact that federal property might be targeted.
Were I King of America, the only change I’d make is giving some flex in the minimums based on costs. 5 years for anything over 100k in damages would be about right. That’d be a class A felony in Texas, and a class-A arson felony is…well, 5 years would be a sweet deal.
I hear a lot about “It was only 150 acres” and “there was nothing there” and “it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the total federal land there” and I think “The difference between a 150 acre fire and a 100k acre fire that destroys towns is…wind, really.”. Especially given the SECOND fire, the 1 acre one? During a burn ban, forcing nearby firefighters to have to relocate because it got into the way of the fires they were already fighting.
Actually….
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
Terrorism has become the home of one-stop-shopping for forms of federal over-reach that, IMO, really are dangerous. Again, IMO, it’s helpful, as a step toward countering that, to be discerning about what gets labelled ‘terrorism’ and what doesn’t.
I don’t see the Hammond public land burns as terrorism. I don’t see that they were trying to frighten anybody, I don’t see that they were trying to influence public policy or actions (at least with the burns).
It wasn’t terrorism, so laws intended to combat terrorism shouldn’t apply to them.
The expansion of the application of ‘anti-terror’ laws has created a small universe of BS. I’m agin it.
I’m against mandatory minimums, period, because they remove the opportunity for judges to, basically, exercise judgement.
I have no argument with your points about the harmfulness of arson.
From the Count’s link:
Residents of New England will recognize the DeLemus name as being famous for truly first-class wing-nuttery.
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
I love the bit about the videographer. Don’t leave home without one.
Actually….
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
Terrorism has become the home of one-stop-shopping for forms of federal over-reach that, IMO, really are dangerous. Again, IMO, it’s helpful, as a step toward countering that, to be discerning about what gets labelled ‘terrorism’ and what doesn’t.
I don’t see the Hammond public land burns as terrorism. I don’t see that they were trying to frighten anybody, I don’t see that they were trying to influence public policy or actions (at least with the burns).
It wasn’t terrorism, so laws intended to combat terrorism shouldn’t apply to them.
The expansion of the application of ‘anti-terror’ laws has created a small universe of BS. I’m agin it.
I’m against mandatory minimums, period, because they remove the opportunity for judges to, basically, exercise judgement.
I have no argument with your points about the harmfulness of arson.
From the Count’s link:
Residents of New England will recognize the DeLemus name as being famous for truly first-class wing-nuttery.
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
I love the bit about the videographer. Don’t leave home without one.
Actually….
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
Terrorism has become the home of one-stop-shopping for forms of federal over-reach that, IMO, really are dangerous. Again, IMO, it’s helpful, as a step toward countering that, to be discerning about what gets labelled ‘terrorism’ and what doesn’t.
I don’t see the Hammond public land burns as terrorism. I don’t see that they were trying to frighten anybody, I don’t see that they were trying to influence public policy or actions (at least with the burns).
It wasn’t terrorism, so laws intended to combat terrorism shouldn’t apply to them.
The expansion of the application of ‘anti-terror’ laws has created a small universe of BS. I’m agin it.
I’m against mandatory minimums, period, because they remove the opportunity for judges to, basically, exercise judgement.
I have no argument with your points about the harmfulness of arson.
From the Count’s link:
Residents of New England will recognize the DeLemus name as being famous for truly first-class wing-nuttery.
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
I love the bit about the videographer. Don’t leave home without one.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
It wasn’t terrorism! They weren’t TRIED as terrorists. They were tried as arsonists!
People keep saying that because in 1996, there was a pretty big terrorism bill that fiddled with the arson mandatories. It was already a federal crime to burn federal property, and it already had a minimum.
The bill was passed back in the 90s, and the arson changes were actually aimed at eco-terrorists and the crazy ALF folks who kept burning stuff down.
But they applied to ALL arson. Not special “terrorist” arson. There is no special “terrorist” arson charge (well, I suppose a RICO charge?). There’s just “federal arson”.
In fact, the bulk of the changes involved increasing the minimums for cases were someone was hurt or badly killed.
And again, as I’ve said — 5 years for the damage caused is a sweet deal. Had they burned down such land in Texas, and been tried under Texas law? 5 to 99 years. 20k to 100k in damages runs between 2 and 20 years.
(Plus fines, but fines don’t cover damages. They’re just fines).
So to sum up: There is no special ‘terrorism’ charge, it’s just arson. The ‘terrorism bill’ in general was passed in 1996 due to a raft of federal and private property getting burnt down, and it was entirely limited to altering the already existing minimum/maximums in the law.
So I just really want to be crystal clear on that point: There is no special “terrorism” charge for arson. There was no “treated as terrorists”. All the 1996 bill — which was BEFORE 9/11 — did was change some of the mandatory penalties for something that was already a federal crime.
And their punishment, 5 years for two counts of arson serviced concurrently is remarkably light given the amount of damages, compared to the same charge in states.
In fact, the minimum in Oregon (under state law) would be 7 years (if it was determined that there was a threat to any people, which the second fire might have counted). As a class A felony (no threat to people), it would have been a Class A felony (property damage over 50k) and sentencing would have been between a few years and 20 years, depending on past criminal history.
As to mandatory minimums — I have problems with them as well, but arson has always been punished harshly. The Hammonds got off lightly, even with the minimums.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
It wasn’t terrorism! They weren’t TRIED as terrorists. They were tried as arsonists!
People keep saying that because in 1996, there was a pretty big terrorism bill that fiddled with the arson mandatories. It was already a federal crime to burn federal property, and it already had a minimum.
The bill was passed back in the 90s, and the arson changes were actually aimed at eco-terrorists and the crazy ALF folks who kept burning stuff down.
But they applied to ALL arson. Not special “terrorist” arson. There is no special “terrorist” arson charge (well, I suppose a RICO charge?). There’s just “federal arson”.
In fact, the bulk of the changes involved increasing the minimums for cases were someone was hurt or badly killed.
And again, as I’ve said — 5 years for the damage caused is a sweet deal. Had they burned down such land in Texas, and been tried under Texas law? 5 to 99 years. 20k to 100k in damages runs between 2 and 20 years.
(Plus fines, but fines don’t cover damages. They’re just fines).
So to sum up: There is no special ‘terrorism’ charge, it’s just arson. The ‘terrorism bill’ in general was passed in 1996 due to a raft of federal and private property getting burnt down, and it was entirely limited to altering the already existing minimum/maximums in the law.
So I just really want to be crystal clear on that point: There is no special “terrorism” charge for arson. There was no “treated as terrorists”. All the 1996 bill — which was BEFORE 9/11 — did was change some of the mandatory penalties for something that was already a federal crime.
And their punishment, 5 years for two counts of arson serviced concurrently is remarkably light given the amount of damages, compared to the same charge in states.
In fact, the minimum in Oregon (under state law) would be 7 years (if it was determined that there was a threat to any people, which the second fire might have counted). As a class A felony (no threat to people), it would have been a Class A felony (property damage over 50k) and sentencing would have been between a few years and 20 years, depending on past criminal history.
As to mandatory minimums — I have problems with them as well, but arson has always been punished harshly. The Hammonds got off lightly, even with the minimums.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
It wasn’t terrorism! They weren’t TRIED as terrorists. They were tried as arsonists!
People keep saying that because in 1996, there was a pretty big terrorism bill that fiddled with the arson mandatories. It was already a federal crime to burn federal property, and it already had a minimum.
The bill was passed back in the 90s, and the arson changes were actually aimed at eco-terrorists and the crazy ALF folks who kept burning stuff down.
But they applied to ALL arson. Not special “terrorist” arson. There is no special “terrorist” arson charge (well, I suppose a RICO charge?). There’s just “federal arson”.
In fact, the bulk of the changes involved increasing the minimums for cases were someone was hurt or badly killed.
And again, as I’ve said — 5 years for the damage caused is a sweet deal. Had they burned down such land in Texas, and been tried under Texas law? 5 to 99 years. 20k to 100k in damages runs between 2 and 20 years.
(Plus fines, but fines don’t cover damages. They’re just fines).
So to sum up: There is no special ‘terrorism’ charge, it’s just arson. The ‘terrorism bill’ in general was passed in 1996 due to a raft of federal and private property getting burnt down, and it was entirely limited to altering the already existing minimum/maximums in the law.
So I just really want to be crystal clear on that point: There is no special “terrorism” charge for arson. There was no “treated as terrorists”. All the 1996 bill — which was BEFORE 9/11 — did was change some of the mandatory penalties for something that was already a federal crime.
And their punishment, 5 years for two counts of arson serviced concurrently is remarkably light given the amount of damages, compared to the same charge in states.
In fact, the minimum in Oregon (under state law) would be 7 years (if it was determined that there was a threat to any people, which the second fire might have counted). As a class A felony (no threat to people), it would have been a Class A felony (property damage over 50k) and sentencing would have been between a few years and 20 years, depending on past criminal history.
As to mandatory minimums — I have problems with them as well, but arson has always been punished harshly. The Hammonds got off lightly, even with the minimums.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
I just want to re-iterate: They applied federal arson law to the guys. Not some special anti-terrorist law.
Regular, plain, arson law that applies to any man, woman, or child that sets fire to federal property. White, black, Muslim, Catholics, Crazy Animal Liberation Front, Rancher Who Gives Zero Crap About Fire Spreading, whatever.
There exists ONE federal law against arson — which sayeth “It’s illegal to burn down federal property, and here are the punishments for doing so — and the punishments break down into “You burned down federal property” and “You burned down federal property and someone died”.
Note the complete absence of “You were a burning things as a terrorist”. It doesn’t exist. There’s no separate federal law called “Arson because you’re a terrorist”.
They were convicted of plain, regular, boring, basic arson.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
I just want to re-iterate: They applied federal arson law to the guys. Not some special anti-terrorist law.
Regular, plain, arson law that applies to any man, woman, or child that sets fire to federal property. White, black, Muslim, Catholics, Crazy Animal Liberation Front, Rancher Who Gives Zero Crap About Fire Spreading, whatever.
There exists ONE federal law against arson — which sayeth “It’s illegal to burn down federal property, and here are the punishments for doing so — and the punishments break down into “You burned down federal property” and “You burned down federal property and someone died”.
Note the complete absence of “You were a burning things as a terrorist”. It doesn’t exist. There’s no separate federal law called “Arson because you’re a terrorist”.
They were convicted of plain, regular, boring, basic arson.
What I was getting at was applying a law written as an ‘anti-terrorism’ statute to a guy burning public grazing land.
I just want to re-iterate: They applied federal arson law to the guys. Not some special anti-terrorist law.
Regular, plain, arson law that applies to any man, woman, or child that sets fire to federal property. White, black, Muslim, Catholics, Crazy Animal Liberation Front, Rancher Who Gives Zero Crap About Fire Spreading, whatever.
There exists ONE federal law against arson — which sayeth “It’s illegal to burn down federal property, and here are the punishments for doing so — and the punishments break down into “You burned down federal property” and “You burned down federal property and someone died”.
Note the complete absence of “You were a burning things as a terrorist”. It doesn’t exist. There’s no separate federal law called “Arson because you’re a terrorist”.
They were convicted of plain, regular, boring, basic arson.
By the way, on behalf of the Three Stooges, I reject any comparison of the Oregon nuts to Moe, Larry, and Curly.
I didn’t spot a seltzer bottle among their provisions.
If Moe Howard slapped the lot of them, they’d shoot him dead, their humor glands having been backed up since birth.
“A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down the pants” would not elicit a even a smirk from this crowd.
So, they aren’t Chuckles the Clown either.
They have the humor of Atlas Shrugged, which is to say .. none.
By the way, on behalf of the Three Stooges, I reject any comparison of the Oregon nuts to Moe, Larry, and Curly.
I didn’t spot a seltzer bottle among their provisions.
If Moe Howard slapped the lot of them, they’d shoot him dead, their humor glands having been backed up since birth.
“A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down the pants” would not elicit a even a smirk from this crowd.
So, they aren’t Chuckles the Clown either.
They have the humor of Atlas Shrugged, which is to say .. none.
By the way, on behalf of the Three Stooges, I reject any comparison of the Oregon nuts to Moe, Larry, and Curly.
I didn’t spot a seltzer bottle among their provisions.
If Moe Howard slapped the lot of them, they’d shoot him dead, their humor glands having been backed up since birth.
“A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down the pants” would not elicit a even a smirk from this crowd.
So, they aren’t Chuckles the Clown either.
They have the humor of Atlas Shrugged, which is to say .. none.
David Neiwert weighs in.
Shades of the Bolsheviks vs. the Left Socialist Revolutionaries? Nah. Pure unadulterated farce.
David Neiwert weighs in.
Shades of the Bolsheviks vs. the Left Socialist Revolutionaries? Nah. Pure unadulterated farce.
David Neiwert weighs in.
Shades of the Bolsheviks vs. the Left Socialist Revolutionaries? Nah. Pure unadulterated farce.
…were someone was hurt or badly killed.
So, nicely killed is OK? 😉
…were someone was hurt or badly killed.
So, nicely killed is OK? 😉
…were someone was hurt or badly killed.
So, nicely killed is OK? 😉
wj: But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too
That doesn’t really hold true in this corner of the state:
http://www.fws.gov/refuge/malheur/about/settling.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_French
Or a more opinionated take on the history:
http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/libertarian-fairy-tales-of-the-bundy-family
wj: But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too
That doesn’t really hold true in this corner of the state:
http://www.fws.gov/refuge/malheur/about/settling.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_French
Or a more opinionated take on the history:
http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/libertarian-fairy-tales-of-the-bundy-family
wj: But the Oregon lands in question have always been under Federal authority, too
That doesn’t really hold true in this corner of the state:
http://www.fws.gov/refuge/malheur/about/settling.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_French
Or a more opinionated take on the history:
http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/libertarian-fairy-tales-of-the-bundy-family
And to back up Morat20, it should be noted that the fires set by the Hammonds had people fleeing out of concern for their safety on more than one occasion:
http://wildfiretoday.com/2016/01/05/the-timeline-for-the-oregon-rancher-arsonists/
What they did to Dusty is pretty nasty stuff, too. But not arson.
And to back up Morat20, it should be noted that the fires set by the Hammonds had people fleeing out of concern for their safety on more than one occasion:
http://wildfiretoday.com/2016/01/05/the-timeline-for-the-oregon-rancher-arsonists/
What they did to Dusty is pretty nasty stuff, too. But not arson.
And to back up Morat20, it should be noted that the fires set by the Hammonds had people fleeing out of concern for their safety on more than one occasion:
http://wildfiretoday.com/2016/01/05/the-timeline-for-the-oregon-rancher-arsonists/
What they did to Dusty is pretty nasty stuff, too. But not arson.
I think my objection to the 5-year sentence for arson is pretty well explained by this Wikipedia article.
Relevant bits:
May not be consistent with the legal definition of arson, but a couple of things:
Accidental ignition of a wilderness area appears not to fit the above definition of arson. It’s like having a leaf fire in your backyard and having it spread to a neighbor’s property. Negligent, but not deliberate.
Not trying to excuse what they did; just laying out my thinking in the matter. I think they committed a crime, but possibly more along the lines of someone who accidentally causes a large-scale forest or grass fire while illegally building a campfire on a non-burn day. Not exactly that, but along those lines.
I think my objection to the 5-year sentence for arson is pretty well explained by this Wikipedia article.
Relevant bits:
May not be consistent with the legal definition of arson, but a couple of things:
Accidental ignition of a wilderness area appears not to fit the above definition of arson. It’s like having a leaf fire in your backyard and having it spread to a neighbor’s property. Negligent, but not deliberate.
Not trying to excuse what they did; just laying out my thinking in the matter. I think they committed a crime, but possibly more along the lines of someone who accidentally causes a large-scale forest or grass fire while illegally building a campfire on a non-burn day. Not exactly that, but along those lines.
I think my objection to the 5-year sentence for arson is pretty well explained by this Wikipedia article.
Relevant bits:
May not be consistent with the legal definition of arson, but a couple of things:
Accidental ignition of a wilderness area appears not to fit the above definition of arson. It’s like having a leaf fire in your backyard and having it spread to a neighbor’s property. Negligent, but not deliberate.
Not trying to excuse what they did; just laying out my thinking in the matter. I think they committed a crime, but possibly more along the lines of someone who accidentally causes a large-scale forest or grass fire while illegally building a campfire on a non-burn day. Not exactly that, but along those lines.
If you read worn’s rather detailed links, they lay out the extent of the fires started as established in court, and on both occasions they were by intent significantly larger in scope than a single campfire.
If you read worn’s rather detailed links, they lay out the extent of the fires started as established in court, and on both occasions they were by intent significantly larger in scope than a single campfire.
If you read worn’s rather detailed links, they lay out the extent of the fires started as established in court, and on both occasions they were by intent significantly larger in scope than a single campfire.
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
A federal informant? Oh, my sweet summer child…
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
A federal informant? Oh, my sweet summer child…
Apparently there are rumors of a federal informant among the patriots.
A federal informant? Oh, my sweet summer child…
Owned by the Feds means owned by all of us. It is a complete lie when people suggest that the land s is “locked up” or a part of a big government take over and all that crap.
I grew up on federal land. Every summer we went camping for three months and traveled all over the US on BLM, National Forest and BLR land. We shared the land with loggers, sheep herders, cattle ranchers and other campers hikers fishermen and so on. All federal land is managed for multiple use.
The culture of the West is founded on a lie: the lie that the people are independent and self-reliant and want to be left alone by big government. in reality the Western states are dependent upon federal tax dollars and subsidized access to public owned resources. Without that influx of federally funded support, the peopel of the west would have to move to the cities.
One example of this is ranching. I’ll describe one specific area. There’s a long valley in Wyoming with a reservation, private land, a fedrally funded irrigation projecta nd National forest. the ranchers got the good bottom land away from the Indians shortly after the reservation was established. None of the privately owned properties are big enough to support a ranch so the ranchers run cattle in our National Forrest. They pay below market value for the leases that give them access. They continually try to violate their leases and over greaze our land. The expect our taxes to be used to kill our wildlife on their behalf. The cattle destroy stream beds and degrade the fishing. Our taxes are used to maintain access roads for the loggers, ranchers and sheep herders. Those roads alos provide access for hunters and poachers.
The irrigation project in the valley was built with federal tax dollars to benefit the white ranchers.
See what I mean? Independent, my ass.
And ranchers do not provide much to the local econolmy. They don’t hire except seasonally and don;t pay much. Many Western states have tax structures intended to protect those who have land as their primary asset.
Typically the local economy in the rural West is based on the few living wage jobs with some aspect of the government, yes, that evil big government: the school, the local office of the Forest Service, the BLM, the Post Office and so on. Those are the jobs that give people money to spend at the local store or auto repair shop.
And then there is the inevitable local pork barrel water project.
Mean while it is part of the local culture to sneer at the Indians for being on welfare, to vote for Republicans who are going to cut taxes and end big government programs, to claim to be the “real stewards” of the land while constantly trying to get away with more over grazing.
Entitlement. That’s what the West is all about. people who feel entitled to have their lifestyle supported by the tax dollars of the people who live in cities and expect to have unregulated subsidized access to public owned resources.
Entitlement.
That’s what the occupation in Oregon is all about.
Owned by the Feds means owned by all of us. It is a complete lie when people suggest that the land s is “locked up” or a part of a big government take over and all that crap.
I grew up on federal land. Every summer we went camping for three months and traveled all over the US on BLM, National Forest and BLR land. We shared the land with loggers, sheep herders, cattle ranchers and other campers hikers fishermen and so on. All federal land is managed for multiple use.
The culture of the West is founded on a lie: the lie that the people are independent and self-reliant and want to be left alone by big government. in reality the Western states are dependent upon federal tax dollars and subsidized access to public owned resources. Without that influx of federally funded support, the peopel of the west would have to move to the cities.
One example of this is ranching. I’ll describe one specific area. There’s a long valley in Wyoming with a reservation, private land, a fedrally funded irrigation projecta nd National forest. the ranchers got the good bottom land away from the Indians shortly after the reservation was established. None of the privately owned properties are big enough to support a ranch so the ranchers run cattle in our National Forrest. They pay below market value for the leases that give them access. They continually try to violate their leases and over greaze our land. The expect our taxes to be used to kill our wildlife on their behalf. The cattle destroy stream beds and degrade the fishing. Our taxes are used to maintain access roads for the loggers, ranchers and sheep herders. Those roads alos provide access for hunters and poachers.
The irrigation project in the valley was built with federal tax dollars to benefit the white ranchers.
See what I mean? Independent, my ass.
And ranchers do not provide much to the local econolmy. They don’t hire except seasonally and don;t pay much. Many Western states have tax structures intended to protect those who have land as their primary asset.
Typically the local economy in the rural West is based on the few living wage jobs with some aspect of the government, yes, that evil big government: the school, the local office of the Forest Service, the BLM, the Post Office and so on. Those are the jobs that give people money to spend at the local store or auto repair shop.
And then there is the inevitable local pork barrel water project.
Mean while it is part of the local culture to sneer at the Indians for being on welfare, to vote for Republicans who are going to cut taxes and end big government programs, to claim to be the “real stewards” of the land while constantly trying to get away with more over grazing.
Entitlement. That’s what the West is all about. people who feel entitled to have their lifestyle supported by the tax dollars of the people who live in cities and expect to have unregulated subsidized access to public owned resources.
Entitlement.
That’s what the occupation in Oregon is all about.
Owned by the Feds means owned by all of us. It is a complete lie when people suggest that the land s is “locked up” or a part of a big government take over and all that crap.
I grew up on federal land. Every summer we went camping for three months and traveled all over the US on BLM, National Forest and BLR land. We shared the land with loggers, sheep herders, cattle ranchers and other campers hikers fishermen and so on. All federal land is managed for multiple use.
The culture of the West is founded on a lie: the lie that the people are independent and self-reliant and want to be left alone by big government. in reality the Western states are dependent upon federal tax dollars and subsidized access to public owned resources. Without that influx of federally funded support, the peopel of the west would have to move to the cities.
One example of this is ranching. I’ll describe one specific area. There’s a long valley in Wyoming with a reservation, private land, a fedrally funded irrigation projecta nd National forest. the ranchers got the good bottom land away from the Indians shortly after the reservation was established. None of the privately owned properties are big enough to support a ranch so the ranchers run cattle in our National Forrest. They pay below market value for the leases that give them access. They continually try to violate their leases and over greaze our land. The expect our taxes to be used to kill our wildlife on their behalf. The cattle destroy stream beds and degrade the fishing. Our taxes are used to maintain access roads for the loggers, ranchers and sheep herders. Those roads alos provide access for hunters and poachers.
The irrigation project in the valley was built with federal tax dollars to benefit the white ranchers.
See what I mean? Independent, my ass.
And ranchers do not provide much to the local econolmy. They don’t hire except seasonally and don;t pay much. Many Western states have tax structures intended to protect those who have land as their primary asset.
Typically the local economy in the rural West is based on the few living wage jobs with some aspect of the government, yes, that evil big government: the school, the local office of the Forest Service, the BLM, the Post Office and so on. Those are the jobs that give people money to spend at the local store or auto repair shop.
And then there is the inevitable local pork barrel water project.
Mean while it is part of the local culture to sneer at the Indians for being on welfare, to vote for Republicans who are going to cut taxes and end big government programs, to claim to be the “real stewards” of the land while constantly trying to get away with more over grazing.
Entitlement. That’s what the West is all about. people who feel entitled to have their lifestyle supported by the tax dollars of the people who live in cities and expect to have unregulated subsidized access to public owned resources.
Entitlement.
That’s what the occupation in Oregon is all about.
best description i’ve seen : “white privilege performance art”
best description i’ve seen : “white privilege performance art”
best description i’ve seen : “white privilege performance art”
wonkie, that is without even a close competitor the best thing I have seen written about this situation. Thanks for taking the time to articulate it.
wonkie, that is without even a close competitor the best thing I have seen written about this situation. Thanks for taking the time to articulate it.
wonkie, that is without even a close competitor the best thing I have seen written about this situation. Thanks for taking the time to articulate it.
Morat20, I have no real argument with the points you’re making.
The only point I was attempting to make was that laws passed under the cover of an ‘anti-terror’ motivation have come to be applied in a variety of contexts not related to terrorism. Which, IMO, is not a good thing.
All of that is sort of peripheral to the basic topic under discussion, so I’m happy to leave it.
But I have no significant disagreement with the points you’re making.
slarti, I think the history of the Hammonds and their relationship to the feds who manage the Malheur property provides sufficient motivation for the feds to come down hard on them. It wasn’t their first time around with the feds, and in the case of the first fire in particular it’s not at all clear that it was a simple matter of an innocent backfire going out of bounds.
wonkie, thanks as always for your thoughts on this. well said.
Morat20, I have no real argument with the points you’re making.
The only point I was attempting to make was that laws passed under the cover of an ‘anti-terror’ motivation have come to be applied in a variety of contexts not related to terrorism. Which, IMO, is not a good thing.
All of that is sort of peripheral to the basic topic under discussion, so I’m happy to leave it.
But I have no significant disagreement with the points you’re making.
slarti, I think the history of the Hammonds and their relationship to the feds who manage the Malheur property provides sufficient motivation for the feds to come down hard on them. It wasn’t their first time around with the feds, and in the case of the first fire in particular it’s not at all clear that it was a simple matter of an innocent backfire going out of bounds.
wonkie, thanks as always for your thoughts on this. well said.
Morat20, I have no real argument with the points you’re making.
The only point I was attempting to make was that laws passed under the cover of an ‘anti-terror’ motivation have come to be applied in a variety of contexts not related to terrorism. Which, IMO, is not a good thing.
All of that is sort of peripheral to the basic topic under discussion, so I’m happy to leave it.
But I have no significant disagreement with the points you’re making.
slarti, I think the history of the Hammonds and their relationship to the feds who manage the Malheur property provides sufficient motivation for the feds to come down hard on them. It wasn’t their first time around with the feds, and in the case of the first fire in particular it’s not at all clear that it was a simple matter of an innocent backfire going out of bounds.
wonkie, thanks as always for your thoughts on this. well said.
More ranting: I have gone on hitchhiking trips through the West several times and have spent hours chatting with loggers and ranchers and people who grew up in rural areas in the West. Besides the assumption of entitlement there is also a very widespread adn completely erroneous assumption of knowledge about ecology.
Some examples: a lawyer (government job, BTW) who gave us a ride through the Swan Valley commented that the National Forest was obviously being managed well because their were deer al over the place. This was a guy who was born in the Swan Valley and was mad at government regulations on the timber companies . He thought more trees should be cut down. Our trees. Our land. He thought they should be cut down to create jobs. No one has ever exploited a public resource to create a job for me. But the point I wanted make is this: deer are not forest creatures. They are edge habitat creatures. The presence of large numbers of deer doesn;t mean the forest is a healthy ecological area; it means the opposite! But you will hear that kind of crap a lot” “I lived here all my life so I know all about nature and it we are heloing the ecology by destroying public land for our own short term economic advantage”.
Another example: This guy in a w\weird vintage car laughingly told us that as long as there were trees in the National Forest, he would always have a job–unless “those environmentalists” interfered.
A very pleasant young mad told us he was a logger except when the forest was on fire Then he fought fires. He commented that the lack of fire that summer had been hard on him financially I asked if people ever set fires to get jobs putting the fires out. YOu should have seen the look on his face.Guilty! He said something like, “Hush! That’s our little secret.” This was back before the fires got so devastatingly bad,
Which brings up the issue of why are the fires of the West so devastatingly bad? Because of one hundred years of fire suppression, a terrible policy imposed in large part because of pressure from timber companies.
I can think of very little good in terms of public land management that has come from the people using the land for their own economic benefit. Being closer, even having a life-long closeness to a particular locality does not make a person wiser in the management. More likely to so the opposite.
More ranting: I have gone on hitchhiking trips through the West several times and have spent hours chatting with loggers and ranchers and people who grew up in rural areas in the West. Besides the assumption of entitlement there is also a very widespread adn completely erroneous assumption of knowledge about ecology.
Some examples: a lawyer (government job, BTW) who gave us a ride through the Swan Valley commented that the National Forest was obviously being managed well because their were deer al over the place. This was a guy who was born in the Swan Valley and was mad at government regulations on the timber companies . He thought more trees should be cut down. Our trees. Our land. He thought they should be cut down to create jobs. No one has ever exploited a public resource to create a job for me. But the point I wanted make is this: deer are not forest creatures. They are edge habitat creatures. The presence of large numbers of deer doesn;t mean the forest is a healthy ecological area; it means the opposite! But you will hear that kind of crap a lot” “I lived here all my life so I know all about nature and it we are heloing the ecology by destroying public land for our own short term economic advantage”.
Another example: This guy in a w\weird vintage car laughingly told us that as long as there were trees in the National Forest, he would always have a job–unless “those environmentalists” interfered.
A very pleasant young mad told us he was a logger except when the forest was on fire Then he fought fires. He commented that the lack of fire that summer had been hard on him financially I asked if people ever set fires to get jobs putting the fires out. YOu should have seen the look on his face.Guilty! He said something like, “Hush! That’s our little secret.” This was back before the fires got so devastatingly bad,
Which brings up the issue of why are the fires of the West so devastatingly bad? Because of one hundred years of fire suppression, a terrible policy imposed in large part because of pressure from timber companies.
I can think of very little good in terms of public land management that has come from the people using the land for their own economic benefit. Being closer, even having a life-long closeness to a particular locality does not make a person wiser in the management. More likely to so the opposite.
More ranting: I have gone on hitchhiking trips through the West several times and have spent hours chatting with loggers and ranchers and people who grew up in rural areas in the West. Besides the assumption of entitlement there is also a very widespread adn completely erroneous assumption of knowledge about ecology.
Some examples: a lawyer (government job, BTW) who gave us a ride through the Swan Valley commented that the National Forest was obviously being managed well because their were deer al over the place. This was a guy who was born in the Swan Valley and was mad at government regulations on the timber companies . He thought more trees should be cut down. Our trees. Our land. He thought they should be cut down to create jobs. No one has ever exploited a public resource to create a job for me. But the point I wanted make is this: deer are not forest creatures. They are edge habitat creatures. The presence of large numbers of deer doesn;t mean the forest is a healthy ecological area; it means the opposite! But you will hear that kind of crap a lot” “I lived here all my life so I know all about nature and it we are heloing the ecology by destroying public land for our own short term economic advantage”.
Another example: This guy in a w\weird vintage car laughingly told us that as long as there were trees in the National Forest, he would always have a job–unless “those environmentalists” interfered.
A very pleasant young mad told us he was a logger except when the forest was on fire Then he fought fires. He commented that the lack of fire that summer had been hard on him financially I asked if people ever set fires to get jobs putting the fires out. YOu should have seen the look on his face.Guilty! He said something like, “Hush! That’s our little secret.” This was back before the fires got so devastatingly bad,
Which brings up the issue of why are the fires of the West so devastatingly bad? Because of one hundred years of fire suppression, a terrible policy imposed in large part because of pressure from timber companies.
I can think of very little good in terms of public land management that has come from the people using the land for their own economic benefit. Being closer, even having a life-long closeness to a particular locality does not make a person wiser in the management. More likely to so the opposite.
I thought I had mentioned that the campfire comparison wasn’t really a close one. Ah, well.
Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property. It is against the law to deliberately torch another’s property. It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
As I see it.
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities. They’re not nice people; I am under no illusions on that count.
I thought I had mentioned that the campfire comparison wasn’t really a close one. Ah, well.
Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property. It is against the law to deliberately torch another’s property. It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
As I see it.
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities. They’re not nice people; I am under no illusions on that count.
I thought I had mentioned that the campfire comparison wasn’t really a close one. Ah, well.
Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property. It is against the law to deliberately torch another’s property. It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
As I see it.
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities. They’re not nice people; I am under no illusions on that count.
for example… this guy wants to drain the ancient water from under the Mojave.
for example… this guy wants to drain the ancient water from under the Mojave.
for example… this guy wants to drain the ancient water from under the Mojave.
It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
…not that the courts appear to have come to the conclusion that either occasion was the result or mere negligence…
It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
…not that the courts appear to have come to the conclusion that either occasion was the result or mere negligence…
It’s also against the law (lesser crime) to, through negligence, burn government property.
…not that the courts appear to have come to the conclusion that either occasion was the result or mere negligence…
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities.
Ah, indeed you did. My bad, thanks for pointing that out.
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities.
Ah, indeed you did. My bad, thanks for pointing that out.
And, russell, I believe I have mentioned I am aware of their prior run-ins with the authorities.
Ah, indeed you did. My bad, thanks for pointing that out.
I’m aware of the charge that they set the fire to cover up poaching. I’m also aware that they claimed to have set the fire to, quoting loosely here, eradicate invasive (but unspecified) plants from either their own property, or government property, or both.
There are just a lot of details that I don’t have sorted out in my head. I think the main point is that you shouldn’t, as a first measure, put someone in prison for five years for what appears to be minor damage to government property, and which also appears not to include damage to buildings.
Again: I recognize they’re not particularly nice people. All the more reason to have administered some just penalties earlier.
I’m aware of the charge that they set the fire to cover up poaching. I’m also aware that they claimed to have set the fire to, quoting loosely here, eradicate invasive (but unspecified) plants from either their own property, or government property, or both.
There are just a lot of details that I don’t have sorted out in my head. I think the main point is that you shouldn’t, as a first measure, put someone in prison for five years for what appears to be minor damage to government property, and which also appears not to include damage to buildings.
Again: I recognize they’re not particularly nice people. All the more reason to have administered some just penalties earlier.
I’m aware of the charge that they set the fire to cover up poaching. I’m also aware that they claimed to have set the fire to, quoting loosely here, eradicate invasive (but unspecified) plants from either their own property, or government property, or both.
There are just a lot of details that I don’t have sorted out in my head. I think the main point is that you shouldn’t, as a first measure, put someone in prison for five years for what appears to be minor damage to government property, and which also appears not to include damage to buildings.
Again: I recognize they’re not particularly nice people. All the more reason to have administered some just penalties earlier.
The invasive species was specified as juniper, FWIW.
The invasive species was specified as juniper, FWIW.
The invasive species was specified as juniper, FWIW.
Arson ain’t the half of it:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/threats-forced-feds-to-close-offices-in-oregon-before-standoff-began
I’d advise tens of thousands young black men in poor urban communities, those that haven’t already been slaughtered in a hail of gunfire while unarmed, to sign up with right-wing militias and conservative paramilitary groups and even move in with western rancher families like the Bundys because not a f*cking thing will happen to them in this country if they threaten to murder Americans, especially public servants.
As the Skittle was a mark of Death and provide no protection for even slightly sketchy behavior in public for vast numbers of people like Trayvon Martin, so the Cheeto and the Slim Jim and the Dorito are bullet-proof talismans of protection from any societal retribution for right-wing threatening behavior with weaponry in this country.
It would be much safer for the poor black kids. They would be under the carte blanche protection of right-wing white privilege, an entitlement that knows no bounds. They could exhibit threatening behavior whenever and where ever they wished and toward whomever they wished without reaction or incident.
They would probably have to shine Bundy’s and company’s and NRA shoes and harvest the cotton lint from fat f*ck militia belly buttons to show their everlasting obeisance to these filth, but it’s better than buying the farm because of an ill-advised reach around for a wallet or a package of Skittles in the presence of our domestic conservative uniformed paramilitary forces while minding their own business on a city street or during a routine traffic stop.
Additionally, I find extremely chilling NV’s link above regarding the Oaf Keepers being tipped off, so they claim, by U.S. military Special Forces personnel regarding law enforcement movements in Oregon.
As in the prison systems, there is a strain of fascist, racist, anti-government machination by the right wing vermin in the military that has no place in our civilized arrangement of civilian/military separation, especially domestically, unless sedition has been committed, which it most assuredly has been in this case.
After all, if violent vermin want to threaten citizenry and public servants with military weaponry handed over to them by the conservative movement in this country, expect to die in return at the hands of military weaponry and tactics.
Make no mistake, some of these guys want to die this way. They believe that will spark right-wing armed rebellion against government on a national scale, as the conservative armed cockroaches, some of them subverting government from within those governments as we speak, swarm out from under the floorboards to put an end to liberalism, representative government, the irreligious, the secular, and the politically correct.
Except for one point of political correctness these filth can’t abide: that once they start it, and they have already if you think about it, and the tens of millions of their fellow travelers join the war on the rest of America, all of them will be executed and killed.
Another point the right wing has right. The sooner than happens, the better, for the future viability of the United States of America.
Arson ain’t the half of it:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/threats-forced-feds-to-close-offices-in-oregon-before-standoff-began
I’d advise tens of thousands young black men in poor urban communities, those that haven’t already been slaughtered in a hail of gunfire while unarmed, to sign up with right-wing militias and conservative paramilitary groups and even move in with western rancher families like the Bundys because not a f*cking thing will happen to them in this country if they threaten to murder Americans, especially public servants.
As the Skittle was a mark of Death and provide no protection for even slightly sketchy behavior in public for vast numbers of people like Trayvon Martin, so the Cheeto and the Slim Jim and the Dorito are bullet-proof talismans of protection from any societal retribution for right-wing threatening behavior with weaponry in this country.
It would be much safer for the poor black kids. They would be under the carte blanche protection of right-wing white privilege, an entitlement that knows no bounds. They could exhibit threatening behavior whenever and where ever they wished and toward whomever they wished without reaction or incident.
They would probably have to shine Bundy’s and company’s and NRA shoes and harvest the cotton lint from fat f*ck militia belly buttons to show their everlasting obeisance to these filth, but it’s better than buying the farm because of an ill-advised reach around for a wallet or a package of Skittles in the presence of our domestic conservative uniformed paramilitary forces while minding their own business on a city street or during a routine traffic stop.
Additionally, I find extremely chilling NV’s link above regarding the Oaf Keepers being tipped off, so they claim, by U.S. military Special Forces personnel regarding law enforcement movements in Oregon.
As in the prison systems, there is a strain of fascist, racist, anti-government machination by the right wing vermin in the military that has no place in our civilized arrangement of civilian/military separation, especially domestically, unless sedition has been committed, which it most assuredly has been in this case.
After all, if violent vermin want to threaten citizenry and public servants with military weaponry handed over to them by the conservative movement in this country, expect to die in return at the hands of military weaponry and tactics.
Make no mistake, some of these guys want to die this way. They believe that will spark right-wing armed rebellion against government on a national scale, as the conservative armed cockroaches, some of them subverting government from within those governments as we speak, swarm out from under the floorboards to put an end to liberalism, representative government, the irreligious, the secular, and the politically correct.
Except for one point of political correctness these filth can’t abide: that once they start it, and they have already if you think about it, and the tens of millions of their fellow travelers join the war on the rest of America, all of them will be executed and killed.
Another point the right wing has right. The sooner than happens, the better, for the future viability of the United States of America.
Arson ain’t the half of it:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/threats-forced-feds-to-close-offices-in-oregon-before-standoff-began
I’d advise tens of thousands young black men in poor urban communities, those that haven’t already been slaughtered in a hail of gunfire while unarmed, to sign up with right-wing militias and conservative paramilitary groups and even move in with western rancher families like the Bundys because not a f*cking thing will happen to them in this country if they threaten to murder Americans, especially public servants.
As the Skittle was a mark of Death and provide no protection for even slightly sketchy behavior in public for vast numbers of people like Trayvon Martin, so the Cheeto and the Slim Jim and the Dorito are bullet-proof talismans of protection from any societal retribution for right-wing threatening behavior with weaponry in this country.
It would be much safer for the poor black kids. They would be under the carte blanche protection of right-wing white privilege, an entitlement that knows no bounds. They could exhibit threatening behavior whenever and where ever they wished and toward whomever they wished without reaction or incident.
They would probably have to shine Bundy’s and company’s and NRA shoes and harvest the cotton lint from fat f*ck militia belly buttons to show their everlasting obeisance to these filth, but it’s better than buying the farm because of an ill-advised reach around for a wallet or a package of Skittles in the presence of our domestic conservative uniformed paramilitary forces while minding their own business on a city street or during a routine traffic stop.
Additionally, I find extremely chilling NV’s link above regarding the Oaf Keepers being tipped off, so they claim, by U.S. military Special Forces personnel regarding law enforcement movements in Oregon.
As in the prison systems, there is a strain of fascist, racist, anti-government machination by the right wing vermin in the military that has no place in our civilized arrangement of civilian/military separation, especially domestically, unless sedition has been committed, which it most assuredly has been in this case.
After all, if violent vermin want to threaten citizenry and public servants with military weaponry handed over to them by the conservative movement in this country, expect to die in return at the hands of military weaponry and tactics.
Make no mistake, some of these guys want to die this way. They believe that will spark right-wing armed rebellion against government on a national scale, as the conservative armed cockroaches, some of them subverting government from within those governments as we speak, swarm out from under the floorboards to put an end to liberalism, representative government, the irreligious, the secular, and the politically correct.
Except for one point of political correctness these filth can’t abide: that once they start it, and they have already if you think about it, and the tens of millions of their fellow travelers join the war on the rest of America, all of them will be executed and killed.
Another point the right wing has right. The sooner than happens, the better, for the future viability of the United States of America.
A few comments:
1). Marty, the various claims by these terms about land stealing and such are wrong; the refuge was created and expanded by purchase.
2). Any overuse of laws against ‘terrorism’ didn’ seem to be a big issue while a Republican was president.
3). Slartibartfast, setting fires on public land in extremely dry conditions IMHO ranks with setting an occupied dwelling on fire. Last I heard, ‘wildfire’ was and is an extremely serious danger Out West.
A few comments:
1). Marty, the various claims by these terms about land stealing and such are wrong; the refuge was created and expanded by purchase.
2). Any overuse of laws against ‘terrorism’ didn’ seem to be a big issue while a Republican was president.
3). Slartibartfast, setting fires on public land in extremely dry conditions IMHO ranks with setting an occupied dwelling on fire. Last I heard, ‘wildfire’ was and is an extremely serious danger Out West.
A few comments:
1). Marty, the various claims by these terms about land stealing and such are wrong; the refuge was created and expanded by purchase.
2). Any overuse of laws against ‘terrorism’ didn’ seem to be a big issue while a Republican was president.
3). Slartibartfast, setting fires on public land in extremely dry conditions IMHO ranks with setting an occupied dwelling on fire. Last I heard, ‘wildfire’ was and is an extremely serious danger Out West.
Slarti: Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property.
Uh, I’m pretty that depends. I can’t burn my leaves on my front lawn in the fall. I’m pretty sure that I can’t deliberately burn my house down either, even if no one else’s property is harmed and it’s not insurance fraud.
Slarti: Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property.
Uh, I’m pretty that depends. I can’t burn my leaves on my front lawn in the fall. I’m pretty sure that I can’t deliberately burn my house down either, even if no one else’s property is harmed and it’s not insurance fraud.
Slarti: Look: it’s not against the law to torch your own property.
Uh, I’m pretty that depends. I can’t burn my leaves on my front lawn in the fall. I’m pretty sure that I can’t deliberately burn my house down either, even if no one else’s property is harmed and it’s not insurance fraud.
In fact, in much of the West it is flat out illegal to burn anything outside, even on your own property, during fire season. Fire season covering most of the time from late May thru October. The risk of it spreading is simply too great — as we have learned from painful experience.
In fact, in much of the West it is flat out illegal to burn anything outside, even on your own property, during fire season. Fire season covering most of the time from late May thru October. The risk of it spreading is simply too great — as we have learned from painful experience.
In fact, in much of the West it is flat out illegal to burn anything outside, even on your own property, during fire season. Fire season covering most of the time from late May thru October. The risk of it spreading is simply too great — as we have learned from painful experience.
That’s actually a good point, Barry. Slarti has argued that we’re discussing a possible case of “mere” (gross?) negligence, but under the circumstances, and given the locale (and in the second instance, the burn ban) I’d say even if the court had not found intent as it apparently did, it would rise at least to the level of recklessness (which did not harm other individuals, but did endanger them and lead to a loss of personal property), and given that any acts committed on the arsonists’ property were on the border of their property, claiming that the fires were on their property is a pretty hard sell in conditions where a reasonable person would assume the fire could spread off their land.
Which is to say, claiming five years to be excessive if we strip the decision of its context is rather unconvincing to me. These were not e.g. bonfires w/o a permit in the wet east, and there were signs of a pattern of misconduct as well. 5 years frankly doesn’t sound all that unreasonable, certainly not when compared to other property crimes.
That’s actually a good point, Barry. Slarti has argued that we’re discussing a possible case of “mere” (gross?) negligence, but under the circumstances, and given the locale (and in the second instance, the burn ban) I’d say even if the court had not found intent as it apparently did, it would rise at least to the level of recklessness (which did not harm other individuals, but did endanger them and lead to a loss of personal property), and given that any acts committed on the arsonists’ property were on the border of their property, claiming that the fires were on their property is a pretty hard sell in conditions where a reasonable person would assume the fire could spread off their land.
Which is to say, claiming five years to be excessive if we strip the decision of its context is rather unconvincing to me. These were not e.g. bonfires w/o a permit in the wet east, and there were signs of a pattern of misconduct as well. 5 years frankly doesn’t sound all that unreasonable, certainly not when compared to other property crimes.
That’s actually a good point, Barry. Slarti has argued that we’re discussing a possible case of “mere” (gross?) negligence, but under the circumstances, and given the locale (and in the second instance, the burn ban) I’d say even if the court had not found intent as it apparently did, it would rise at least to the level of recklessness (which did not harm other individuals, but did endanger them and lead to a loss of personal property), and given that any acts committed on the arsonists’ property were on the border of their property, claiming that the fires were on their property is a pretty hard sell in conditions where a reasonable person would assume the fire could spread off their land.
Which is to say, claiming five years to be excessive if we strip the decision of its context is rather unconvincing to me. These were not e.g. bonfires w/o a permit in the wet east, and there were signs of a pattern of misconduct as well. 5 years frankly doesn’t sound all that unreasonable, certainly not when compared to other property crimes.
The Hammonds lit a series of fires, not just one isolated incident.
So yes, context matters when evaluating the sentence.
The Hammonds lit a series of fires, not just one isolated incident.
So yes, context matters when evaluating the sentence.
The Hammonds lit a series of fires, not just one isolated incident.
So yes, context matters when evaluating the sentence.
Anecdotally on the difference in attitudes about fire between east and west… A few years ago I went to a niece’s wedding on the east side of the Great Plains. At the reception, they set loose a whole flock of those Japanese flying lantern things. The family contingent from the west side of the GP stood there aghast, asking “Are you insane? They’re going to arrest us. And lock us up. And throw away the keys.” None of the non-westerners thought anything about it.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West. Fire. Water. Federal land holdings in a macro sense, as in where can roads be built, or power lines to handle the needs of the large number of people who keep moving here. Citizen initiatives as the rule, not the exception.
Anecdotally on the difference in attitudes about fire between east and west… A few years ago I went to a niece’s wedding on the east side of the Great Plains. At the reception, they set loose a whole flock of those Japanese flying lantern things. The family contingent from the west side of the GP stood there aghast, asking “Are you insane? They’re going to arrest us. And lock us up. And throw away the keys.” None of the non-westerners thought anything about it.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West. Fire. Water. Federal land holdings in a macro sense, as in where can roads be built, or power lines to handle the needs of the large number of people who keep moving here. Citizen initiatives as the rule, not the exception.
Anecdotally on the difference in attitudes about fire between east and west… A few years ago I went to a niece’s wedding on the east side of the Great Plains. At the reception, they set loose a whole flock of those Japanese flying lantern things. The family contingent from the west side of the GP stood there aghast, asking “Are you insane? They’re going to arrest us. And lock us up. And throw away the keys.” None of the non-westerners thought anything about it.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West. Fire. Water. Federal land holdings in a macro sense, as in where can roads be built, or power lines to handle the needs of the large number of people who keep moving here. Citizen initiatives as the rule, not the exception.
“Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?”
I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
“Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?”
I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
“Why should money-making use automatically trump other uses or interests?”
I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West
As an aside, apropos of nothing in particular, I’ll offer my pointless wish that more, rather than less, land was in public hands here where I live in north-east MA.
Any time an acre of undeveloped land (somehow, miraculously undeveloped, after almost 400 years of European settlement) becomes available, it sprouts a half-dozen McMansions before you have time to sneeze.
I’m getting to be on an almost first-name basis with the rabbits, racoons, wild (in name, anyway) turkeys, skunks, deer, and coyotes that are moving into my neighborhood, because every scrap of open land has been bulldozed and paved.
In my stupid little four-square-mile town, we have maybe, I don’t know, 80 acres or so of undeveloped public land. Which is, actually, not too bad. Most of it’s basically unbuildable – wetlands, swamps, big craggy outcrops of granite ledge – but I’m happy to have it, whatever it is. It’s nice.
The pressure on undeveloped land where I live is intense. It’s really hard on farmers, and it’s really hard on wildlife, or last least such wildlife as we still have. It’s hard on the river systems, on the wetlands, and on the ocean. It stresses the environment and the people who live in it in about a million ways, all the time.
Different places, different problems.
That is all.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West
As an aside, apropos of nothing in particular, I’ll offer my pointless wish that more, rather than less, land was in public hands here where I live in north-east MA.
Any time an acre of undeveloped land (somehow, miraculously undeveloped, after almost 400 years of European settlement) becomes available, it sprouts a half-dozen McMansions before you have time to sneeze.
I’m getting to be on an almost first-name basis with the rabbits, racoons, wild (in name, anyway) turkeys, skunks, deer, and coyotes that are moving into my neighborhood, because every scrap of open land has been bulldozed and paved.
In my stupid little four-square-mile town, we have maybe, I don’t know, 80 acres or so of undeveloped public land. Which is, actually, not too bad. Most of it’s basically unbuildable – wetlands, swamps, big craggy outcrops of granite ledge – but I’m happy to have it, whatever it is. It’s nice.
The pressure on undeveloped land where I live is intense. It’s really hard on farmers, and it’s really hard on wildlife, or last least such wildlife as we still have. It’s hard on the river systems, on the wetlands, and on the ocean. It stresses the environment and the people who live in it in about a million ways, all the time.
Different places, different problems.
That is all.
Among the political class, there are enormous differences in attitudes towards certain things in East and West
As an aside, apropos of nothing in particular, I’ll offer my pointless wish that more, rather than less, land was in public hands here where I live in north-east MA.
Any time an acre of undeveloped land (somehow, miraculously undeveloped, after almost 400 years of European settlement) becomes available, it sprouts a half-dozen McMansions before you have time to sneeze.
I’m getting to be on an almost first-name basis with the rabbits, racoons, wild (in name, anyway) turkeys, skunks, deer, and coyotes that are moving into my neighborhood, because every scrap of open land has been bulldozed and paved.
In my stupid little four-square-mile town, we have maybe, I don’t know, 80 acres or so of undeveloped public land. Which is, actually, not too bad. Most of it’s basically unbuildable – wetlands, swamps, big craggy outcrops of granite ledge – but I’m happy to have it, whatever it is. It’s nice.
The pressure on undeveloped land where I live is intense. It’s really hard on farmers, and it’s really hard on wildlife, or last least such wildlife as we still have. It’s hard on the river systems, on the wetlands, and on the ocean. It stresses the environment and the people who live in it in about a million ways, all the time.
Different places, different problems.
That is all.
but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
What if ‘other interests’ have also gone on for generations?
How many generations does it take for your point of view to count?
One of the most, to me, bizarre things in the Cliven Bundy episode was his idea that because ‘generations’ of his family had lived near his ranch, he had some kind of grandfathered-in claim to the land.
Bundy stated that his family had been in the area ‘since 1877’. My grandfather was born in 1877 or 1878. It’s not a really long time ago.
If we’re going to make claims based on ‘generations’ of a particular kind of use, we need to give it back to the Indians. Or maybe Spanish-speaking shepherds.
but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
What if ‘other interests’ have also gone on for generations?
How many generations does it take for your point of view to count?
One of the most, to me, bizarre things in the Cliven Bundy episode was his idea that because ‘generations’ of his family had lived near his ranch, he had some kind of grandfathered-in claim to the land.
Bundy stated that his family had been in the area ‘since 1877’. My grandfather was born in 1877 or 1878. It’s not a really long time ago.
If we’re going to make claims based on ‘generations’ of a particular kind of use, we need to give it back to the Indians. Or maybe Spanish-speaking shepherds.
but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
What if ‘other interests’ have also gone on for generations?
How many generations does it take for your point of view to count?
One of the most, to me, bizarre things in the Cliven Bundy episode was his idea that because ‘generations’ of his family had lived near his ranch, he had some kind of grandfathered-in claim to the land.
Bundy stated that his family had been in the area ‘since 1877’. My grandfather was born in 1877 or 1878. It’s not a really long time ago.
If we’re going to make claims based on ‘generations’ of a particular kind of use, we need to give it back to the Indians. Or maybe Spanish-speaking shepherds.
“I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.”
In Marty’s world view, Shane would have volunteered his services to established cattle baron Rufus Ryker and left the sod busters to rot.
This, after the rules changed with the Homestead Act of 1862.
Come back, Shane.
Sorry, Joey, your mother is fetching, but money calls. With cattle money I can buy ten of her at the Ryker cat house up in Casper.
Russell, Marty has explained the difference between developers putting food on the table by developing every square inch of land in your town and the rabbits, racoons, and wild turkeys, not to mention the larger surrounding environment being of no importance except as food on the developers’ table, so I don’t know why the persistence in believing your interests have any place in the decision-making process.
%-/
The question can be raised about the legitimacy of taking land from generations of established, productive ranchers and farmers to hand over to Transcanada for its pipeline too.
So far, the question comes without weapons raised in protest.
No wonder conservatives think the pipeline is a no-brainer, without question.
“I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.”
In Marty’s world view, Shane would have volunteered his services to established cattle baron Rufus Ryker and left the sod busters to rot.
This, after the rules changed with the Homestead Act of 1862.
Come back, Shane.
Sorry, Joey, your mother is fetching, but money calls. With cattle money I can buy ten of her at the Ryker cat house up in Casper.
Russell, Marty has explained the difference between developers putting food on the table by developing every square inch of land in your town and the rabbits, racoons, and wild turkeys, not to mention the larger surrounding environment being of no importance except as food on the developers’ table, so I don’t know why the persistence in believing your interests have any place in the decision-making process.
%-/
The question can be raised about the legitimacy of taking land from generations of established, productive ranchers and farmers to hand over to Transcanada for its pipeline too.
So far, the question comes without weapons raised in protest.
No wonder conservatives think the pipeline is a no-brainer, without question.
“I’m not sure they always should, but when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.”
In Marty’s world view, Shane would have volunteered his services to established cattle baron Rufus Ryker and left the sod busters to rot.
This, after the rules changed with the Homestead Act of 1862.
Come back, Shane.
Sorry, Joey, your mother is fetching, but money calls. With cattle money I can buy ten of her at the Ryker cat house up in Casper.
Russell, Marty has explained the difference between developers putting food on the table by developing every square inch of land in your town and the rabbits, racoons, and wild turkeys, not to mention the larger surrounding environment being of no importance except as food on the developers’ table, so I don’t know why the persistence in believing your interests have any place in the decision-making process.
%-/
The question can be raised about the legitimacy of taking land from generations of established, productive ranchers and farmers to hand over to Transcanada for its pipeline too.
So far, the question comes without weapons raised in protest.
No wonder conservatives think the pipeline is a no-brainer, without question.
It’s one thing if land which has been owned by generations of ranchers is taken away. I’d expect the government to have to make a really solid case for that — and something far more serious than Kelo.
On the other hand, the fact that generations have been leasing public land, and are now having their use reduced? Not really sure they have much of a claim. And that’s ignoring the massive subsidy involved in having their lease rates massively below what they would have had to pay to lease private land.
It’s one thing if land which has been owned by generations of ranchers is taken away. I’d expect the government to have to make a really solid case for that — and something far more serious than Kelo.
On the other hand, the fact that generations have been leasing public land, and are now having their use reduced? Not really sure they have much of a claim. And that’s ignoring the massive subsidy involved in having their lease rates massively below what they would have had to pay to lease private land.
It’s one thing if land which has been owned by generations of ranchers is taken away. I’d expect the government to have to make a really solid case for that — and something far more serious than Kelo.
On the other hand, the fact that generations have been leasing public land, and are now having their use reduced? Not really sure they have much of a claim. And that’s ignoring the massive subsidy involved in having their lease rates massively below what they would have had to pay to lease private land.
…when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
*Trying to resist bringing up Southern plantation owners in 1864… It burns!*
…when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
*Trying to resist bringing up Southern plantation owners in 1864… It burns!*
…when generations of a family have made their living, livelihood, put food on the table, and the rules change to favor other interests I believe it is probably wrong.
*Trying to resist bringing up Southern plantation owners in 1864… It burns!*
Don’t forget the part where the whole time the private use of public lands have been governed by rules dictating that said private use is not to have a detrimental effect on the ostensible raison d’être for the federal reservation’s existence, so that “the rules changing” wasn’t so much the rules changing as the rules remaining the same, but over time the context in which those rules are applied changing.
Don’t forget the part where the whole time the private use of public lands have been governed by rules dictating that said private use is not to have a detrimental effect on the ostensible raison d’être for the federal reservation’s existence, so that “the rules changing” wasn’t so much the rules changing as the rules remaining the same, but over time the context in which those rules are applied changing.
Don’t forget the part where the whole time the private use of public lands have been governed by rules dictating that said private use is not to have a detrimental effect on the ostensible raison d’être for the federal reservation’s existence, so that “the rules changing” wasn’t so much the rules changing as the rules remaining the same, but over time the context in which those rules are applied changing.
Whango Tango, Count:).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baron_of_Arizona
Send in Vincent Price.
Whango Tango, Count:).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baron_of_Arizona
Send in Vincent Price.
Whango Tango, Count:).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baron_of_Arizona
Send in Vincent Price.
A remark in passing about the big federal water projects in the West. For the most part, the cost of construction and the operating costs are recovered from the sales of irrigation water and electricity, with the construction costs amortized over 50 years. Big dams are remarkably cheap to build — the Hoover Dam was $49M (the contemporaneous Golden Gate Bridge was $35M). From a flow of funds perspective, the feds loaned the western states money they couldn’t have raised otherwise, and the loans have been repaid by local beneficiaries. Pretty much the same story for the huge TVA construction in the South.
The biggest of the Columbia and Tennessee River dams would have been built in any case — they were the only affordable source of enough electricity to meet WWII demand for aluminum.
A remark in passing about the big federal water projects in the West. For the most part, the cost of construction and the operating costs are recovered from the sales of irrigation water and electricity, with the construction costs amortized over 50 years. Big dams are remarkably cheap to build — the Hoover Dam was $49M (the contemporaneous Golden Gate Bridge was $35M). From a flow of funds perspective, the feds loaned the western states money they couldn’t have raised otherwise, and the loans have been repaid by local beneficiaries. Pretty much the same story for the huge TVA construction in the South.
The biggest of the Columbia and Tennessee River dams would have been built in any case — they were the only affordable source of enough electricity to meet WWII demand for aluminum.
A remark in passing about the big federal water projects in the West. For the most part, the cost of construction and the operating costs are recovered from the sales of irrigation water and electricity, with the construction costs amortized over 50 years. Big dams are remarkably cheap to build — the Hoover Dam was $49M (the contemporaneous Golden Gate Bridge was $35M). From a flow of funds perspective, the feds loaned the western states money they couldn’t have raised otherwise, and the loans have been repaid by local beneficiaries. Pretty much the same story for the huge TVA construction in the South.
The biggest of the Columbia and Tennessee River dams would have been built in any case — they were the only affordable source of enough electricity to meet WWII demand for aluminum.
Now, listen up you young whippersnappers, I’ve been hiking, and in the past cross country skiing as well, the Rocky Mountains for going on 40 years.
On my own two feet. Not a wilderness fanatic by any means, but I enjoy it. Sure, after, say, three days in the back country, I could kill for a cheeseburger and a shower.
Somewhere along the line, motorized vehicles, summer off road and snowmobiles alike, came onto the scene.
As well as dirt bikers and trail bicylists.
Conservatives, mostly, campaigned to open access to as much trail as possible to multiple use as opposed to we faggot, liberal tree huggers who thought maybe a little peace and quiet on foot in the outback seemed appropriately enough.
But O.K. have at it.
The park, trail, and land use rules changed on some of the lands, not all assuredly, to accommodate them and I didn’t protest despite finding the noise of the motorized stuff annoying.
There’s an unwritten code of courtesy and right-of-way on the trails as to who gives way first depending on who is heading up and who is heading down the trail.
Everyone, in my experience observes these courtesies.
Except once when a couple of teenaged trail bikers came down a steep trail, rocks and debris clattering along, at very reckless rates of speed behind my ex-wife and me and my son, who was seven or eight at the time. They yelled “on your left” but one of them didn’t slow or stop, as they should have.
The other, I could tell, made an attempt to give us a wide berth. But the second idiot missed my son by about four inches.
When you are seven years of age and you have to make a decision about which is your left or right when you have something that can kill you bearing down FROM BEHIND which you can’t yet see, it’s tough to know how and in what direction to react,
Luckily, my son froze out of sheer fright. His knees were shaking afterward.
The bikers pulled up below about forty feet beyond us and the one who tried to avoid us made a half-hearted apology. I asked the other completely reckless one what he had to say. He tried to stare me down and made some contemptuous reference to my 7-year old’s inability to tell his left from his right.
At that, I let the backpack I was carrying off my shoulders, dropped it, and took a couple of steps towards him and off they went down the rest of the trail and out of there.
The point — I had first use with my feet of that trail, and they came along later with their bikes and I made room without protest.
Even with that one incidence of dangerous rudeness, I’ve never gone to a public meeting and argued that riders of various vehicles should be disallowed on public lands, federal, state, or local, because only some lands are designated for multiple use and some not, so fine.
Second point being, the Hammonds and the Bundys can adjust and go with the flow and the change like I did.
Or, they can go f*ck themselves like that punk trail biker just about did.
Incidentally, my son, now 26, is an inveterate camper and backpacker and technical rock climbs like a spider.
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Now, listen up you young whippersnappers, I’ve been hiking, and in the past cross country skiing as well, the Rocky Mountains for going on 40 years.
On my own two feet. Not a wilderness fanatic by any means, but I enjoy it. Sure, after, say, three days in the back country, I could kill for a cheeseburger and a shower.
Somewhere along the line, motorized vehicles, summer off road and snowmobiles alike, came onto the scene.
As well as dirt bikers and trail bicylists.
Conservatives, mostly, campaigned to open access to as much trail as possible to multiple use as opposed to we faggot, liberal tree huggers who thought maybe a little peace and quiet on foot in the outback seemed appropriately enough.
But O.K. have at it.
The park, trail, and land use rules changed on some of the lands, not all assuredly, to accommodate them and I didn’t protest despite finding the noise of the motorized stuff annoying.
There’s an unwritten code of courtesy and right-of-way on the trails as to who gives way first depending on who is heading up and who is heading down the trail.
Everyone, in my experience observes these courtesies.
Except once when a couple of teenaged trail bikers came down a steep trail, rocks and debris clattering along, at very reckless rates of speed behind my ex-wife and me and my son, who was seven or eight at the time. They yelled “on your left” but one of them didn’t slow or stop, as they should have.
The other, I could tell, made an attempt to give us a wide berth. But the second idiot missed my son by about four inches.
When you are seven years of age and you have to make a decision about which is your left or right when you have something that can kill you bearing down FROM BEHIND which you can’t yet see, it’s tough to know how and in what direction to react,
Luckily, my son froze out of sheer fright. His knees were shaking afterward.
The bikers pulled up below about forty feet beyond us and the one who tried to avoid us made a half-hearted apology. I asked the other completely reckless one what he had to say. He tried to stare me down and made some contemptuous reference to my 7-year old’s inability to tell his left from his right.
At that, I let the backpack I was carrying off my shoulders, dropped it, and took a couple of steps towards him and off they went down the rest of the trail and out of there.
The point — I had first use with my feet of that trail, and they came along later with their bikes and I made room without protest.
Even with that one incidence of dangerous rudeness, I’ve never gone to a public meeting and argued that riders of various vehicles should be disallowed on public lands, federal, state, or local, because only some lands are designated for multiple use and some not, so fine.
Second point being, the Hammonds and the Bundys can adjust and go with the flow and the change like I did.
Or, they can go f*ck themselves like that punk trail biker just about did.
Incidentally, my son, now 26, is an inveterate camper and backpacker and technical rock climbs like a spider.
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Now, listen up you young whippersnappers, I’ve been hiking, and in the past cross country skiing as well, the Rocky Mountains for going on 40 years.
On my own two feet. Not a wilderness fanatic by any means, but I enjoy it. Sure, after, say, three days in the back country, I could kill for a cheeseburger and a shower.
Somewhere along the line, motorized vehicles, summer off road and snowmobiles alike, came onto the scene.
As well as dirt bikers and trail bicylists.
Conservatives, mostly, campaigned to open access to as much trail as possible to multiple use as opposed to we faggot, liberal tree huggers who thought maybe a little peace and quiet on foot in the outback seemed appropriately enough.
But O.K. have at it.
The park, trail, and land use rules changed on some of the lands, not all assuredly, to accommodate them and I didn’t protest despite finding the noise of the motorized stuff annoying.
There’s an unwritten code of courtesy and right-of-way on the trails as to who gives way first depending on who is heading up and who is heading down the trail.
Everyone, in my experience observes these courtesies.
Except once when a couple of teenaged trail bikers came down a steep trail, rocks and debris clattering along, at very reckless rates of speed behind my ex-wife and me and my son, who was seven or eight at the time. They yelled “on your left” but one of them didn’t slow or stop, as they should have.
The other, I could tell, made an attempt to give us a wide berth. But the second idiot missed my son by about four inches.
When you are seven years of age and you have to make a decision about which is your left or right when you have something that can kill you bearing down FROM BEHIND which you can’t yet see, it’s tough to know how and in what direction to react,
Luckily, my son froze out of sheer fright. His knees were shaking afterward.
The bikers pulled up below about forty feet beyond us and the one who tried to avoid us made a half-hearted apology. I asked the other completely reckless one what he had to say. He tried to stare me down and made some contemptuous reference to my 7-year old’s inability to tell his left from his right.
At that, I let the backpack I was carrying off my shoulders, dropped it, and took a couple of steps towards him and off they went down the rest of the trail and out of there.
The point — I had first use with my feet of that trail, and they came along later with their bikes and I made room without protest.
Even with that one incidence of dangerous rudeness, I’ve never gone to a public meeting and argued that riders of various vehicles should be disallowed on public lands, federal, state, or local, because only some lands are designated for multiple use and some not, so fine.
Second point being, the Hammonds and the Bundys can adjust and go with the flow and the change like I did.
Or, they can go f*ck themselves like that punk trail biker just about did.
Incidentally, my son, now 26, is an inveterate camper and backpacker and technical rock climbs like a spider.
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Michael Cain is a find.
Thanks.
He’s all facticity and balance to go with my fantastical a-little-to-the-left-of-whoopy yarns.
Michael Cain is a find.
Thanks.
He’s all facticity and balance to go with my fantastical a-little-to-the-left-of-whoopy yarns.
Michael Cain is a find.
Thanks.
He’s all facticity and balance to go with my fantastical a-little-to-the-left-of-whoopy yarns.
Michael Cain is a find.
Agreed.
If I could remember the admin password, I’d blog-roll him.
LJ..?
Michael Cain is a find.
Agreed.
If I could remember the admin password, I’d blog-roll him.
LJ..?
Michael Cain is a find.
Agreed.
If I could remember the admin password, I’d blog-roll him.
LJ..?
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Bless him. And you, for raising him well.
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Bless him. And you, for raising him well.
When he leaves a campsite, you can’t tell he’s been there.
Bless him. And you, for raising him well.
Done! I opted for Michael Cain’s Random Policy rather than just Random Policy. Hope that’s ok
Done! I opted for Michael Cain’s Random Policy rather than just Random Policy. Hope that’s ok
Done! I opted for Michael Cain’s Random Policy rather than just Random Policy. Hope that’s ok
I just wanted to agree with several other commenters about the east/west split in attitudes toward fire. I’ve lived all my life in Pacific states, and never been all that far from areas where wildfires are a real risk. I know that it’s never possible to maintain 100% control over a fire, and the difference between a fire that burns a hundred acres and one that burns a hundred thousand is very often pure dumb luck. Every year, vast areas burn because of arsonists who wanted to do damage, and also because of people who thought they had a fire for a specific purpose under control. This is part of the fabric of life in the west.
I literally don’t know anyone, of any political stripe, who isn’t in favor of strong sentencing for arson on the same general principle as, say, firing guns at random toward a crowd of people. Even if you don’t hit/kill anyone, your reckless disregard matters.
I just wanted to agree with several other commenters about the east/west split in attitudes toward fire. I’ve lived all my life in Pacific states, and never been all that far from areas where wildfires are a real risk. I know that it’s never possible to maintain 100% control over a fire, and the difference between a fire that burns a hundred acres and one that burns a hundred thousand is very often pure dumb luck. Every year, vast areas burn because of arsonists who wanted to do damage, and also because of people who thought they had a fire for a specific purpose under control. This is part of the fabric of life in the west.
I literally don’t know anyone, of any political stripe, who isn’t in favor of strong sentencing for arson on the same general principle as, say, firing guns at random toward a crowd of people. Even if you don’t hit/kill anyone, your reckless disregard matters.
I just wanted to agree with several other commenters about the east/west split in attitudes toward fire. I’ve lived all my life in Pacific states, and never been all that far from areas where wildfires are a real risk. I know that it’s never possible to maintain 100% control over a fire, and the difference between a fire that burns a hundred acres and one that burns a hundred thousand is very often pure dumb luck. Every year, vast areas burn because of arsonists who wanted to do damage, and also because of people who thought they had a fire for a specific purpose under control. This is part of the fabric of life in the west.
I literally don’t know anyone, of any political stripe, who isn’t in favor of strong sentencing for arson on the same general principle as, say, firing guns at random toward a crowd of people. Even if you don’t hit/kill anyone, your reckless disregard matters.
via Digby:
https://twitter.com/jjmacnab
via Digby:
https://twitter.com/jjmacnab
via Digby:
https://twitter.com/jjmacnab
Not all easterners are casual about fire:
Maybe 15 years ago, I was at home one summer evening in NJ with my youngest, about age 4 — I think the elder was out with her dad fencing, or something like that. It was raining lightly. I smelled smoke, walked around the house and couldn’t find anything, but I looked outside and saw a layer of smoke in the trees of our wooded neighborhood. Feeling a bit like I was over-reacting, I called 911, then sat in the open doorway with my daughter until the Fire Chief arrived.
He quickly established that our new neighbors had decided to burn their moving boxes, inside an open steel drum. He told them to put it out and wrote a ticket. Then he came over to my house and thanked me for making the call — he wanted to make sure that I didn’t think I’d made a fuss over nothing.
In fact, about 5 years later one of our other neighbors’ house caught fire (old wiring), and only working smoke detectors ensured no-one was hurt.
Not all easterners are casual about fire:
Maybe 15 years ago, I was at home one summer evening in NJ with my youngest, about age 4 — I think the elder was out with her dad fencing, or something like that. It was raining lightly. I smelled smoke, walked around the house and couldn’t find anything, but I looked outside and saw a layer of smoke in the trees of our wooded neighborhood. Feeling a bit like I was over-reacting, I called 911, then sat in the open doorway with my daughter until the Fire Chief arrived.
He quickly established that our new neighbors had decided to burn their moving boxes, inside an open steel drum. He told them to put it out and wrote a ticket. Then he came over to my house and thanked me for making the call — he wanted to make sure that I didn’t think I’d made a fuss over nothing.
In fact, about 5 years later one of our other neighbors’ house caught fire (old wiring), and only working smoke detectors ensured no-one was hurt.
Not all easterners are casual about fire:
Maybe 15 years ago, I was at home one summer evening in NJ with my youngest, about age 4 — I think the elder was out with her dad fencing, or something like that. It was raining lightly. I smelled smoke, walked around the house and couldn’t find anything, but I looked outside and saw a layer of smoke in the trees of our wooded neighborhood. Feeling a bit like I was over-reacting, I called 911, then sat in the open doorway with my daughter until the Fire Chief arrived.
He quickly established that our new neighbors had decided to burn their moving boxes, inside an open steel drum. He told them to put it out and wrote a ticket. Then he came over to my house and thanked me for making the call — he wanted to make sure that I didn’t think I’d made a fuss over nothing.
In fact, about 5 years later one of our other neighbors’ house caught fire (old wiring), and only working smoke detectors ensured no-one was hurt.
I like to look at foxnews.com’s home page every few days, to see what kind of thing they think is important. They have had strikingly little about the Oregon standoff all along: today, for instance, there is *nothing* about it on the front page. Also nothing at breitbart.com.
I wonder if this is why the FBI is strikingly not in evidence — no-one is shrieking at them, so they’re trying “ignore the problem and hope it goes away” as a solution.
I like to look at foxnews.com’s home page every few days, to see what kind of thing they think is important. They have had strikingly little about the Oregon standoff all along: today, for instance, there is *nothing* about it on the front page. Also nothing at breitbart.com.
I wonder if this is why the FBI is strikingly not in evidence — no-one is shrieking at them, so they’re trying “ignore the problem and hope it goes away” as a solution.
I like to look at foxnews.com’s home page every few days, to see what kind of thing they think is important. They have had strikingly little about the Oregon standoff all along: today, for instance, there is *nothing* about it on the front page. Also nothing at breitbart.com.
I wonder if this is why the FBI is strikingly not in evidence — no-one is shrieking at them, so they’re trying “ignore the problem and hope it goes away” as a solution.
I too appreciate Michael’s comments, but I hope these guys don’t get away with it. They have been catered to and tiptoed around too long.
I can accept that there issues around western land, but I very much agree with wonkie. There is an awful lot of freeloading and mooching going on, by people who pretend to be strong independent government-hating types. If they want their complaints listened to, then they could start by dropping the cowboy attitude.
I too appreciate Michael’s comments, but I hope these guys don’t get away with it. They have been catered to and tiptoed around too long.
I can accept that there issues around western land, but I very much agree with wonkie. There is an awful lot of freeloading and mooching going on, by people who pretend to be strong independent government-hating types. If they want their complaints listened to, then they could start by dropping the cowboy attitude.
I too appreciate Michael’s comments, but I hope these guys don’t get away with it. They have been catered to and tiptoed around too long.
I can accept that there issues around western land, but I very much agree with wonkie. There is an awful lot of freeloading and mooching going on, by people who pretend to be strong independent government-hating types. If they want their complaints listened to, then they could start by dropping the cowboy attitude.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/08/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-6-marking-our-beliefs-to-market/
I’m wondering how these guys finance their revolutionary free time.
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
What is the prevalence of SS disability, food stamps, Medicaid and military disability pensions etc among these drama queens and their misbegotten illegitimate children and boyfriends?
Do their wives hold two jobs? Do their mistresses hold a third job to keep the feedbag full?
Do they themselves have jobs? What are the leave policies?
One rancher from Arizona holding out up there complained that his own cattle on HIS ranch were now lost and heading down Route 66 because he wasn’t tending them.
The word “steward” doesn’t come to mind.
The words “dumbass twit” do.
And penultimate finally, what Republican party interest groups are funding them for an election year shootout lollapalooza if none of the above sources of funding are forthcoming?
And finally final, for Marty’s and Drudges’ sake, could it be that Hilary Clinton is funding this venture just like she was able to convince Monica Lewinsky to come out of retirement and blow Donald Trump to incentivize him to make a clown show out of the Republican Party, as if it needed the lubrication?
And do Cruz and Carson feel neglected?
Do the Oregon fellas have health insurance not provided by the dreaded federal you-know-what? Or when they arrive at the emergency room via flight for life, will my insurance rates go up to subsidize their multiple bullet and shrapnel wounds because they thought Obamacare meant their kidneys would be transplanted into Svetlana Stalin’s poodle’s abdomen?
If we made a movie of this, could special effects allow the late Slim Pickens to play all of the characters?
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/08/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-6-marking-our-beliefs-to-market/
I’m wondering how these guys finance their revolutionary free time.
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
What is the prevalence of SS disability, food stamps, Medicaid and military disability pensions etc among these drama queens and their misbegotten illegitimate children and boyfriends?
Do their wives hold two jobs? Do their mistresses hold a third job to keep the feedbag full?
Do they themselves have jobs? What are the leave policies?
One rancher from Arizona holding out up there complained that his own cattle on HIS ranch were now lost and heading down Route 66 because he wasn’t tending them.
The word “steward” doesn’t come to mind.
The words “dumbass twit” do.
And penultimate finally, what Republican party interest groups are funding them for an election year shootout lollapalooza if none of the above sources of funding are forthcoming?
And finally final, for Marty’s and Drudges’ sake, could it be that Hilary Clinton is funding this venture just like she was able to convince Monica Lewinsky to come out of retirement and blow Donald Trump to incentivize him to make a clown show out of the Republican Party, as if it needed the lubrication?
And do Cruz and Carson feel neglected?
Do the Oregon fellas have health insurance not provided by the dreaded federal you-know-what? Or when they arrive at the emergency room via flight for life, will my insurance rates go up to subsidize their multiple bullet and shrapnel wounds because they thought Obamacare meant their kidneys would be transplanted into Svetlana Stalin’s poodle’s abdomen?
If we made a movie of this, could special effects allow the late Slim Pickens to play all of the characters?
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/08/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-6-marking-our-beliefs-to-market/
I’m wondering how these guys finance their revolutionary free time.
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
What is the prevalence of SS disability, food stamps, Medicaid and military disability pensions etc among these drama queens and their misbegotten illegitimate children and boyfriends?
Do their wives hold two jobs? Do their mistresses hold a third job to keep the feedbag full?
Do they themselves have jobs? What are the leave policies?
One rancher from Arizona holding out up there complained that his own cattle on HIS ranch were now lost and heading down Route 66 because he wasn’t tending them.
The word “steward” doesn’t come to mind.
The words “dumbass twit” do.
And penultimate finally, what Republican party interest groups are funding them for an election year shootout lollapalooza if none of the above sources of funding are forthcoming?
And finally final, for Marty’s and Drudges’ sake, could it be that Hilary Clinton is funding this venture just like she was able to convince Monica Lewinsky to come out of retirement and blow Donald Trump to incentivize him to make a clown show out of the Republican Party, as if it needed the lubrication?
And do Cruz and Carson feel neglected?
Do the Oregon fellas have health insurance not provided by the dreaded federal you-know-what? Or when they arrive at the emergency room via flight for life, will my insurance rates go up to subsidize their multiple bullet and shrapnel wounds because they thought Obamacare meant their kidneys would be transplanted into Svetlana Stalin’s poodle’s abdomen?
If we made a movie of this, could special effects allow the late Slim Pickens to play all of the characters?
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
The brothers co-own a diesel service company in Phoenix that one of the brothers operates. The other also operates a construction company of unknown (at least to me) size in the rapidly-growing SW corner of Utah.
The family situation is typical of the fundamental problem facing rural America: we ran out of available land (water in the West). It’s hard to generate new jobs so kids have to move out when they get grown. Provision of services — education, medical care, communications — is increasingly problematic. This is not a new situation. More states than not have programs going back decades to try to get doctors and nurses to set up practices in rural areas. One of the most overlooked parts of the New Deal was its commitment that rural America wouldn’t get left behind. The approach used then was mostly direct and indirect cash subsidies of the economy, and most of those programs are still in existence today.
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
The brothers co-own a diesel service company in Phoenix that one of the brothers operates. The other also operates a construction company of unknown (at least to me) size in the rapidly-growing SW corner of Utah.
The family situation is typical of the fundamental problem facing rural America: we ran out of available land (water in the West). It’s hard to generate new jobs so kids have to move out when they get grown. Provision of services — education, medical care, communications — is increasingly problematic. This is not a new situation. More states than not have programs going back decades to try to get doctors and nurses to set up practices in rural areas. One of the most overlooked parts of the New Deal was its commitment that rural America wouldn’t get left behind. The approach used then was mostly direct and indirect cash subsidies of the economy, and most of those programs are still in existence today.
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
Are the Bundy boys trust fund babies? Is the dirty, arduous work of ranching and yippy ey ky ohhing so infrequent that they can take time off from helping the old man out while he rustles desert tortoises all by his high prairie lonesome?
The brothers co-own a diesel service company in Phoenix that one of the brothers operates. The other also operates a construction company of unknown (at least to me) size in the rapidly-growing SW corner of Utah.
The family situation is typical of the fundamental problem facing rural America: we ran out of available land (water in the West). It’s hard to generate new jobs so kids have to move out when they get grown. Provision of services — education, medical care, communications — is increasingly problematic. This is not a new situation. More states than not have programs going back decades to try to get doctors and nurses to set up practices in rural areas. One of the most overlooked parts of the New Deal was its commitment that rural America wouldn’t get left behind. The approach used then was mostly direct and indirect cash subsidies of the economy, and most of those programs are still in existence today.
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
Michael,
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
As an abstract matter, which certainly should be favored by hardy, independent, free-market types, the solution is simple.
Let nature take its course. If the land and water won’t support population growth then don’t grow. Maybe even shrink.
Of course that creates a huge political problem, and lots of people don’t want to move, for quite understandable personal and emotional reasons. To some degree I’m willing to tolerate that, but maybe we should be encouraging transition, sort of like welfare-to-work programs.
Michael,
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
As an abstract matter, which certainly should be favored by hardy, independent, free-market types, the solution is simple.
Let nature take its course. If the land and water won’t support population growth then don’t grow. Maybe even shrink.
Of course that creates a huge political problem, and lots of people don’t want to move, for quite understandable personal and emotional reasons. To some degree I’m willing to tolerate that, but maybe we should be encouraging transition, sort of like welfare-to-work programs.
Michael,
I think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s the root cause for most of the urban/rural conflict we see today. But I’ve got exactly zero ideas about how to address it.
As an abstract matter, which certainly should be favored by hardy, independent, free-market types, the solution is simple.
Let nature take its course. If the land and water won’t support population growth then don’t grow. Maybe even shrink.
Of course that creates a huge political problem, and lots of people don’t want to move, for quite understandable personal and emotional reasons. To some degree I’m willing to tolerate that, but maybe we should be encouraging transition, sort of like welfare-to-work programs.
The US Census weighs in.
The US Census weighs in.
The US Census weighs in.
It’s not just a political problem. Over-exploitation of water resources (which is what anyone in the west thinks of first) can lead to the kinds of ecological and environmental damage which has knock-on effects on people who had nothing to do with the original exploitation.
If you over-log, you get rain washing away the soil. Which, in turn, means that there will not just be no new timber growing, but also the water supplies on which cities hundreds of miles away will be damaged. And for decades, not just when the logging is going on. Not a problem for the loggers; they just move on. But those left behind are the ones suffering.
Which is why those other people, those city folks, make environmental laws which are so resented by the rural folks who have to work within them. Think of those laws being the ecology recovering from past problems by creating a new ecology which won’t have the same problems again.
It’s not just a political problem. Over-exploitation of water resources (which is what anyone in the west thinks of first) can lead to the kinds of ecological and environmental damage which has knock-on effects on people who had nothing to do with the original exploitation.
If you over-log, you get rain washing away the soil. Which, in turn, means that there will not just be no new timber growing, but also the water supplies on which cities hundreds of miles away will be damaged. And for decades, not just when the logging is going on. Not a problem for the loggers; they just move on. But those left behind are the ones suffering.
Which is why those other people, those city folks, make environmental laws which are so resented by the rural folks who have to work within them. Think of those laws being the ecology recovering from past problems by creating a new ecology which won’t have the same problems again.
It’s not just a political problem. Over-exploitation of water resources (which is what anyone in the west thinks of first) can lead to the kinds of ecological and environmental damage which has knock-on effects on people who had nothing to do with the original exploitation.
If you over-log, you get rain washing away the soil. Which, in turn, means that there will not just be no new timber growing, but also the water supplies on which cities hundreds of miles away will be damaged. And for decades, not just when the logging is going on. Not a problem for the loggers; they just move on. But those left behind are the ones suffering.
Which is why those other people, those city folks, make environmental laws which are so resented by the rural folks who have to work within them. Think of those laws being the ecology recovering from past problems by creating a new ecology which won’t have the same problems again.
wj,
You are correct. What I meant by “political problem” is the idea of saying to rural dwellers in many areas,
“The environment won’t support current population levels here. There is not enough land and water. There is going to have to be serious net out-migration to other areas.”
Policies to speed up that process will be difficult to devise and enact.
wj,
You are correct. What I meant by “political problem” is the idea of saying to rural dwellers in many areas,
“The environment won’t support current population levels here. There is not enough land and water. There is going to have to be serious net out-migration to other areas.”
Policies to speed up that process will be difficult to devise and enact.
wj,
You are correct. What I meant by “political problem” is the idea of saying to rural dwellers in many areas,
“The environment won’t support current population levels here. There is not enough land and water. There is going to have to be serious net out-migration to other areas.”
Policies to speed up that process will be difficult to devise and enact.
A largely forgotten clash with authorities discussed here.
A largely forgotten clash with authorities discussed here.
A largely forgotten clash with authorities discussed here.
I’ve been looking at maps like the one bobbyp references my entire adult life, with particular attention to the Great Plains. It has been a fascinating thing, watching the original pattern of population spread slowly contract back towards the original rivers and railroads (less the few places where large oil and gas deposits have been found).
The GP offer a surprising variety of ecologies, and I love ’em all. But more and more I believe that the Poppers were right, and eventually we’re going to give them back to the bison.
Most people misplace the GP, confusing them with the prairies farther east. My county-level map, using a Census Bureau document as source, and less four of the Colorado Front Range counties (that didn’t fit a particular narrative), is here:
http://www.mcain6925.com/ordinary/great_plains_flat.jpg
I’ve been looking at maps like the one bobbyp references my entire adult life, with particular attention to the Great Plains. It has been a fascinating thing, watching the original pattern of population spread slowly contract back towards the original rivers and railroads (less the few places where large oil and gas deposits have been found).
The GP offer a surprising variety of ecologies, and I love ’em all. But more and more I believe that the Poppers were right, and eventually we’re going to give them back to the bison.
Most people misplace the GP, confusing them with the prairies farther east. My county-level map, using a Census Bureau document as source, and less four of the Colorado Front Range counties (that didn’t fit a particular narrative), is here:
http://www.mcain6925.com/ordinary/great_plains_flat.jpg
I’ve been looking at maps like the one bobbyp references my entire adult life, with particular attention to the Great Plains. It has been a fascinating thing, watching the original pattern of population spread slowly contract back towards the original rivers and railroads (less the few places where large oil and gas deposits have been found).
The GP offer a surprising variety of ecologies, and I love ’em all. But more and more I believe that the Poppers were right, and eventually we’re going to give them back to the bison.
Most people misplace the GP, confusing them with the prairies farther east. My county-level map, using a Census Bureau document as source, and less four of the Colorado Front Range counties (that didn’t fit a particular narrative), is here:
http://www.mcain6925.com/ordinary/great_plains_flat.jpg
From Charles Pierce:
“Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge…Jon Ritzheimer, the Arizona militiaman known for organizing anti-Muslim rallies and fundraising through his “Rogue Infidel” site, went to see Oshaugnessy at the motel and found him drinking there, according to Maureen Peltier, a disabled National Guard woman who claims to be the group’s official spokeswoman. Peltier said Ritzheimer had confirmed that Oshaugnessy had kept the money he had raised through social media for himself and had spent at least some of it on a drinking binge.
It really is the Whiskey Rebellion!”
From Charles Pierce:
“Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge…Jon Ritzheimer, the Arizona militiaman known for organizing anti-Muslim rallies and fundraising through his “Rogue Infidel” site, went to see Oshaugnessy at the motel and found him drinking there, according to Maureen Peltier, a disabled National Guard woman who claims to be the group’s official spokeswoman. Peltier said Ritzheimer had confirmed that Oshaugnessy had kept the money he had raised through social media for himself and had spent at least some of it on a drinking binge.
It really is the Whiskey Rebellion!”
From Charles Pierce:
“Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge…Jon Ritzheimer, the Arizona militiaman known for organizing anti-Muslim rallies and fundraising through his “Rogue Infidel” site, went to see Oshaugnessy at the motel and found him drinking there, according to Maureen Peltier, a disabled National Guard woman who claims to be the group’s official spokeswoman. Peltier said Ritzheimer had confirmed that Oshaugnessy had kept the money he had raised through social media for himself and had spent at least some of it on a drinking binge.
It really is the Whiskey Rebellion!”
Why no armed violence here as property is ruined and taken?:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gas-leak-los-angeles
Why no armed violence here as property is ruined and taken?:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gas-leak-los-angeles
Why no armed violence here as property is ruined and taken?:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gas-leak-los-angeles
The Bandy Boys can’t comprehend they may have crossed the law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAus1lXNWGU
The Bandy Boys can’t comprehend they may have crossed the law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAus1lXNWGU
The Bandy Boys can’t comprehend they may have crossed the law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAus1lXNWGU
A pretty good discussion from the DFH’s at Grist.
A pretty good discussion from the DFH’s at Grist.
A pretty good discussion from the DFH’s at Grist.
Doctor Science: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that no Easterner cares about fire. Obviously a bunch of yinz do. 🙂 And of course there are Westerners who absolutely don’t. But “fire bad!”, with emphasis, is a particularly strong thing on this side of the country.
Doctor Science: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that no Easterner cares about fire. Obviously a bunch of yinz do. 🙂 And of course there are Westerners who absolutely don’t. But “fire bad!”, with emphasis, is a particularly strong thing on this side of the country.
Doctor Science: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that no Easterner cares about fire. Obviously a bunch of yinz do. 🙂 And of course there are Westerners who absolutely don’t. But “fire bad!”, with emphasis, is a particularly strong thing on this side of the country.
Russell, that’s a good article.
You could say the ranchers have been Ubered. Their taxi medallions, so to speak, are plummeting in value.
Like every last one of us at one time or another, and more than once.
We’ve been downsized, rationalized, made redundant, fired at will, outsourced, and reduced in force. We’ve been WalMarted, Amazoned, rezoned, gentrified, secondhand smoked, minimum sentenced, redlined, back-of-the-bussed, robot-replaced, and sent to the reservations.
Wait until Amazon figures out how to grow beef in the virtual world and send it over toute suite for dinner after a text. Look ma, no hands! No ranch hands either.
We’ve been strip searched, told where to stand, told to stay on the trail, told where to sit, when to sit, how to sit, and who to sit with.
If you’re homeless, don’t even think about sitting.
We’ve been conceal carried and now we’re going to be open carried. For guns.
But not for beer or liquor.
We’re being fracked and earthquaked. We’re surveilled by government and corporate out the wigwam.
We’re about to be droned.
I know how they feel. Their long-sustained illusion that they are sovereign individuals is being crimped. They aren’t people.
Corporations are people. Governments are the will of the people.
As far as grievances go, the Bundys and company can get in f*cking line, at the end. The back of the line is about thirty miles down the road (and who asked me if THAT road could be built?) round the other side of that far butte.
But no, they, and the Mafia, get to cut in line at the very front because they carry an item that can threaten and kill the rest of us.
I get it.
I wanna solve my problems that way too. It looks so simple … and exciting. It’s exquisitely tempting.
Let’s all join em and give this outfit called a country the armed reckoning it seems to be hankering for.
Let’s go from cubicle to cubicle in government AND corporate and just start taking the PEOPLE out.
What makes Wyatt Earp think he’s more person than I am?
Hanh?
I am willing to buy out the ranchers’ grazing privileges. I am.
But you’re going to have to raise my taxes to do that.
Wait. We’re not allowed to raise taxes, are we?
Because Grover Norquist has guns.
And I don’t.
We see what needs to change here, don’t we, so we can all get a piece of each other.
Try walking on these barons’ lands without asking, and even then:
http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/
I can walk on most public lands. Cause they are owned in trust for me. I have to pay a fee on some. How come it’s not prorated according to the number of steps I take on any particular hike?
Consider that question and assume I’m unarmed.
Now consider that question and assume I’m carrying a weapon.
See how that factor changes the nature and tenor of the so called free exchange of First Amendment opinions. Choose your words carefully.
If the Bundy meatheads walked into the bar, or the credit union, or the public park down the street from me and said to the owners, and the employees, and the rest of the customers: “All right, everyone, we’re taking this here space over because of an assortment and buildup of grievances. All of you can now vacate and no one will get hurt. We don’t want to hurt anybody, if the answer is yes sir. If the answer is no, well then, you and what army? If you think you’re going to raise YOUR weapon to counter our weapons, go ahead, we can deal”
“Do we all understand the terms of the conversation?”
“Now get your city-slicker butts out of here and take your birds with you, except for that wild turkey right there. He’s mine, because I’m a might bit peckish.”
Get rid of the guns and ammo, including the gummint ones, and the corporate ones, and the individual ones, and let our First Amendment freak flags fly.
Or, let’s all have guns, lots of them, and skip the jibberjabber all together and settle some questions once and for f*cking all.
Russell, that’s a good article.
You could say the ranchers have been Ubered. Their taxi medallions, so to speak, are plummeting in value.
Like every last one of us at one time or another, and more than once.
We’ve been downsized, rationalized, made redundant, fired at will, outsourced, and reduced in force. We’ve been WalMarted, Amazoned, rezoned, gentrified, secondhand smoked, minimum sentenced, redlined, back-of-the-bussed, robot-replaced, and sent to the reservations.
Wait until Amazon figures out how to grow beef in the virtual world and send it over toute suite for dinner after a text. Look ma, no hands! No ranch hands either.
We’ve been strip searched, told where to stand, told to stay on the trail, told where to sit, when to sit, how to sit, and who to sit with.
If you’re homeless, don’t even think about sitting.
We’ve been conceal carried and now we’re going to be open carried. For guns.
But not for beer or liquor.
We’re being fracked and earthquaked. We’re surveilled by government and corporate out the wigwam.
We’re about to be droned.
I know how they feel. Their long-sustained illusion that they are sovereign individuals is being crimped. They aren’t people.
Corporations are people. Governments are the will of the people.
As far as grievances go, the Bundys and company can get in f*cking line, at the end. The back of the line is about thirty miles down the road (and who asked me if THAT road could be built?) round the other side of that far butte.
But no, they, and the Mafia, get to cut in line at the very front because they carry an item that can threaten and kill the rest of us.
I get it.
I wanna solve my problems that way too. It looks so simple … and exciting. It’s exquisitely tempting.
Let’s all join em and give this outfit called a country the armed reckoning it seems to be hankering for.
Let’s go from cubicle to cubicle in government AND corporate and just start taking the PEOPLE out.
What makes Wyatt Earp think he’s more person than I am?
Hanh?
I am willing to buy out the ranchers’ grazing privileges. I am.
But you’re going to have to raise my taxes to do that.
Wait. We’re not allowed to raise taxes, are we?
Because Grover Norquist has guns.
And I don’t.
We see what needs to change here, don’t we, so we can all get a piece of each other.
Try walking on these barons’ lands without asking, and even then:
http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/
I can walk on most public lands. Cause they are owned in trust for me. I have to pay a fee on some. How come it’s not prorated according to the number of steps I take on any particular hike?
Consider that question and assume I’m unarmed.
Now consider that question and assume I’m carrying a weapon.
See how that factor changes the nature and tenor of the so called free exchange of First Amendment opinions. Choose your words carefully.
If the Bundy meatheads walked into the bar, or the credit union, or the public park down the street from me and said to the owners, and the employees, and the rest of the customers: “All right, everyone, we’re taking this here space over because of an assortment and buildup of grievances. All of you can now vacate and no one will get hurt. We don’t want to hurt anybody, if the answer is yes sir. If the answer is no, well then, you and what army? If you think you’re going to raise YOUR weapon to counter our weapons, go ahead, we can deal”
“Do we all understand the terms of the conversation?”
“Now get your city-slicker butts out of here and take your birds with you, except for that wild turkey right there. He’s mine, because I’m a might bit peckish.”
Get rid of the guns and ammo, including the gummint ones, and the corporate ones, and the individual ones, and let our First Amendment freak flags fly.
Or, let’s all have guns, lots of them, and skip the jibberjabber all together and settle some questions once and for f*cking all.
Russell, that’s a good article.
You could say the ranchers have been Ubered. Their taxi medallions, so to speak, are plummeting in value.
Like every last one of us at one time or another, and more than once.
We’ve been downsized, rationalized, made redundant, fired at will, outsourced, and reduced in force. We’ve been WalMarted, Amazoned, rezoned, gentrified, secondhand smoked, minimum sentenced, redlined, back-of-the-bussed, robot-replaced, and sent to the reservations.
Wait until Amazon figures out how to grow beef in the virtual world and send it over toute suite for dinner after a text. Look ma, no hands! No ranch hands either.
We’ve been strip searched, told where to stand, told to stay on the trail, told where to sit, when to sit, how to sit, and who to sit with.
If you’re homeless, don’t even think about sitting.
We’ve been conceal carried and now we’re going to be open carried. For guns.
But not for beer or liquor.
We’re being fracked and earthquaked. We’re surveilled by government and corporate out the wigwam.
We’re about to be droned.
I know how they feel. Their long-sustained illusion that they are sovereign individuals is being crimped. They aren’t people.
Corporations are people. Governments are the will of the people.
As far as grievances go, the Bundys and company can get in f*cking line, at the end. The back of the line is about thirty miles down the road (and who asked me if THAT road could be built?) round the other side of that far butte.
But no, they, and the Mafia, get to cut in line at the very front because they carry an item that can threaten and kill the rest of us.
I get it.
I wanna solve my problems that way too. It looks so simple … and exciting. It’s exquisitely tempting.
Let’s all join em and give this outfit called a country the armed reckoning it seems to be hankering for.
Let’s go from cubicle to cubicle in government AND corporate and just start taking the PEOPLE out.
What makes Wyatt Earp think he’s more person than I am?
Hanh?
I am willing to buy out the ranchers’ grazing privileges. I am.
But you’re going to have to raise my taxes to do that.
Wait. We’re not allowed to raise taxes, are we?
Because Grover Norquist has guns.
And I don’t.
We see what needs to change here, don’t we, so we can all get a piece of each other.
Try walking on these barons’ lands without asking, and even then:
http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/
I can walk on most public lands. Cause they are owned in trust for me. I have to pay a fee on some. How come it’s not prorated according to the number of steps I take on any particular hike?
Consider that question and assume I’m unarmed.
Now consider that question and assume I’m carrying a weapon.
See how that factor changes the nature and tenor of the so called free exchange of First Amendment opinions. Choose your words carefully.
If the Bundy meatheads walked into the bar, or the credit union, or the public park down the street from me and said to the owners, and the employees, and the rest of the customers: “All right, everyone, we’re taking this here space over because of an assortment and buildup of grievances. All of you can now vacate and no one will get hurt. We don’t want to hurt anybody, if the answer is yes sir. If the answer is no, well then, you and what army? If you think you’re going to raise YOUR weapon to counter our weapons, go ahead, we can deal”
“Do we all understand the terms of the conversation?”
“Now get your city-slicker butts out of here and take your birds with you, except for that wild turkey right there. He’s mine, because I’m a might bit peckish.”
Get rid of the guns and ammo, including the gummint ones, and the corporate ones, and the individual ones, and let our First Amendment freak flags fly.
Or, let’s all have guns, lots of them, and skip the jibberjabber all together and settle some questions once and for f*cking all.
If you read that comment in the voice of Matthew McConaughey as he plays “Rust” in the first season of “True Detective”, in a kind of Louisiana bayou monotone, it will convey more of the ominous, portentuous end times are coming there ain’t no love in them ruins edginess I intend.
Because I’ve been watching that show finally, I’ve been walking around my apartment doing that voice out loud for the last few days, so it kind of bleeds into the comments.
Last week, I was doing Jerry Lewis impressions. “Helllooooo, Laaaadies!”
I can’t say whether that’s why I live alone, or whether the habit is a result of living alone, but yeah, I’m a bit off my kazzip.
😉
You can probably tell when I’ve been reading “Macbeth” too, or anything by Cormac McCarthey.
If you read that comment in the voice of Matthew McConaughey as he plays “Rust” in the first season of “True Detective”, in a kind of Louisiana bayou monotone, it will convey more of the ominous, portentuous end times are coming there ain’t no love in them ruins edginess I intend.
Because I’ve been watching that show finally, I’ve been walking around my apartment doing that voice out loud for the last few days, so it kind of bleeds into the comments.
Last week, I was doing Jerry Lewis impressions. “Helllooooo, Laaaadies!”
I can’t say whether that’s why I live alone, or whether the habit is a result of living alone, but yeah, I’m a bit off my kazzip.
😉
You can probably tell when I’ve been reading “Macbeth” too, or anything by Cormac McCarthey.
If you read that comment in the voice of Matthew McConaughey as he plays “Rust” in the first season of “True Detective”, in a kind of Louisiana bayou monotone, it will convey more of the ominous, portentuous end times are coming there ain’t no love in them ruins edginess I intend.
Because I’ve been watching that show finally, I’ve been walking around my apartment doing that voice out loud for the last few days, so it kind of bleeds into the comments.
Last week, I was doing Jerry Lewis impressions. “Helllooooo, Laaaadies!”
I can’t say whether that’s why I live alone, or whether the habit is a result of living alone, but yeah, I’m a bit off my kazzip.
😉
You can probably tell when I’ve been reading “Macbeth” too, or anything by Cormac McCarthey.
Bruce B.: “yinz” ???
Western PA?
Bruce B.: “yinz” ???
Western PA?
Bruce B.: “yinz” ???
Western PA?
Yes, Russell, thanks for the link. I hadn’t realized that people were getting bank loans based on their grazing permits. It does put a rather different slant on the situation.
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances. I’m not sure I totally ageee, but I can at least see where they are coming from. (OK, I understand the “white empowerment – lack of” grievance, too. I just think it is utter bullsh*t.)
Yes, Russell, thanks for the link. I hadn’t realized that people were getting bank loans based on their grazing permits. It does put a rather different slant on the situation.
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances. I’m not sure I totally ageee, but I can at least see where they are coming from. (OK, I understand the “white empowerment – lack of” grievance, too. I just think it is utter bullsh*t.)
Yes, Russell, thanks for the link. I hadn’t realized that people were getting bank loans based on their grazing permits. It does put a rather different slant on the situation.
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances. I’m not sure I totally ageee, but I can at least see where they are coming from. (OK, I understand the “white empowerment – lack of” grievance, too. I just think it is utter bullsh*t.)
So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?
I was not aware of that. Thks.
So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?
I was not aware of that. Thks.
So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?
I was not aware of that. Thks.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2016/01/ignorance-is-power-by-bloggersrus.html
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2016/01/ignorance-is-power-by-bloggersrus.html
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2016/01/ignorance-is-power-by-bloggersrus.html
“So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?”
I think they pay for the rights they are borrowing against. I’m not sure it is at no cost to them, the rights or the loan
“So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?”
I think they pay for the rights they are borrowing against. I’m not sure it is at no cost to them, the rights or the loan
“So the western ranchers are able to privately capitalize a public asset at no cost to them?”
I think they pay for the rights they are borrowing against. I’m not sure it is at no cost to them, the rights or the loan
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41061/obama-gun-town-hall/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41061/obama-gun-town-hall/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41061/obama-gun-town-hall/
Western PA?
I’d say it’s a straight-up marker for Picsburgese.
Western PA?
I’d say it’s a straight-up marker for Picsburgese.
Western PA?
I’d say it’s a straight-up marker for Picsburgese.
The Bundys view the feds as an oppressive force, but others see them as a not very good steward.
So here’s another map to consider.
The Bundys view the feds as an oppressive force, but others see them as a not very good steward.
So here’s another map to consider.
The Bundys view the feds as an oppressive force, but others see them as a not very good steward.
So here’s another map to consider.
Yup. I grew up there.
Youns goin up town?
Yup. I grew up there.
Youns goin up town?
Yup. I grew up there.
Youns goin up town?
I’m going to read this again tomorrow:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/white-man-pathology-bernie-sanders-donald-trump?CMP=fb_us
I’m going to read this again tomorrow:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/white-man-pathology-bernie-sanders-donald-trump?CMP=fb_us
I’m going to read this again tomorrow:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/white-man-pathology-bernie-sanders-donald-trump?CMP=fb_us
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances.
I’m sympathetic to ranchers whose livelihood is made tentative by changes outside of their control.
There’s a lot of that going around.
I’m not sympathetic to the Bundys et al. When I’ve feeling really generous, I think they’re seriously misinformed. Most times, I just thin they’re assholes.
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances.
I’m sympathetic to ranchers whose livelihood is made tentative by changes outside of their control.
There’s a lot of that going around.
I’m not sympathetic to the Bundys et al. When I’ve feeling really generous, I think they’re seriously misinformed. Most times, I just thin they’re assholes.
As with the author of that article, I still have no sympathy for these nut cases. But I at least understand one of the underlying grievances.
I’m sympathetic to ranchers whose livelihood is made tentative by changes outside of their control.
There’s a lot of that going around.
I’m not sympathetic to the Bundys et al. When I’ve feeling really generous, I think they’re seriously misinformed. Most times, I just thin they’re assholes.
Perhaps the government is more concern about the courts setting a precedent of setting less than mandatory minimums for cases than it is about this particular case. Otherwise it seems like a bit of vindictiveness on the part of the government.
[…]
To put those numbers in perspective, the Hammonds’ land totals about 10,000 acres, interspersed with several times as much federal land. Neither fire injured anyone, and the jury in the Hammonds’ 2012 trial determined that the total property damage came to less than $2,000. The judge who sentenced the Hammonds said the damage to sagebrush and juniper trees caused by the larger fire might have totaled more than $100, although “I think Mother Nature’s probably taken care of any injury.” In fact, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) concluded that the 2001 fire improved the federal land it affected.
[…]
Oregon Rancher Protest Highlights The Injustice Of Mandatory Minimums: The resentencing of Dwight and Steven Hammond illustrates the injustices wrought by mandatory minimums.
Perhaps the government is more concern about the courts setting a precedent of setting less than mandatory minimums for cases than it is about this particular case. Otherwise it seems like a bit of vindictiveness on the part of the government.
[…]
To put those numbers in perspective, the Hammonds’ land totals about 10,000 acres, interspersed with several times as much federal land. Neither fire injured anyone, and the jury in the Hammonds’ 2012 trial determined that the total property damage came to less than $2,000. The judge who sentenced the Hammonds said the damage to sagebrush and juniper trees caused by the larger fire might have totaled more than $100, although “I think Mother Nature’s probably taken care of any injury.” In fact, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) concluded that the 2001 fire improved the federal land it affected.
[…]
Oregon Rancher Protest Highlights The Injustice Of Mandatory Minimums: The resentencing of Dwight and Steven Hammond illustrates the injustices wrought by mandatory minimums.
Perhaps the government is more concern about the courts setting a precedent of setting less than mandatory minimums for cases than it is about this particular case. Otherwise it seems like a bit of vindictiveness on the part of the government.
[…]
To put those numbers in perspective, the Hammonds’ land totals about 10,000 acres, interspersed with several times as much federal land. Neither fire injured anyone, and the jury in the Hammonds’ 2012 trial determined that the total property damage came to less than $2,000. The judge who sentenced the Hammonds said the damage to sagebrush and juniper trees caused by the larger fire might have totaled more than $100, although “I think Mother Nature’s probably taken care of any injury.” In fact, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) concluded that the 2001 fire improved the federal land it affected.
[…]
Oregon Rancher Protest Highlights The Injustice Of Mandatory Minimums: The resentencing of Dwight and Steven Hammond illustrates the injustices wrought by mandatory minimums.
[…]
In the past few years, lawmakers across the West have offered up dozens of bills and resolutions seeking to take over the federal lands inside their borders or to study how to do so. Some of the legislation has been aimed at Congress, to urge it to radically revise the laws that have shaped 550,000 square miles of national forests and terrain run by the federal Bureau of Land Management, stretching from the Great Plains to the Pacific.
[…]
The Larger, but Quieter Than Bundy, Push to Take Over Federal Land
[…]
In the past few years, lawmakers across the West have offered up dozens of bills and resolutions seeking to take over the federal lands inside their borders or to study how to do so. Some of the legislation has been aimed at Congress, to urge it to radically revise the laws that have shaped 550,000 square miles of national forests and terrain run by the federal Bureau of Land Management, stretching from the Great Plains to the Pacific.
[…]
The Larger, but Quieter Than Bundy, Push to Take Over Federal Land
[…]
In the past few years, lawmakers across the West have offered up dozens of bills and resolutions seeking to take over the federal lands inside their borders or to study how to do so. Some of the legislation has been aimed at Congress, to urge it to radically revise the laws that have shaped 550,000 square miles of national forests and terrain run by the federal Bureau of Land Management, stretching from the Great Plains to the Pacific.
[…]
The Larger, but Quieter Than Bundy, Push to Take Over Federal Land
While not entirely on topic, the link Posted by: Countme-In | January 10, 2016 at 08:11 PM is worth a read (or two if you’re the Count, I guess).
While not entirely on topic, the link Posted by: Countme-In | January 10, 2016 at 08:11 PM is worth a read (or two if you’re the Count, I guess).
While not entirely on topic, the link Posted by: Countme-In | January 10, 2016 at 08:11 PM is worth a read (or two if you’re the Count, I guess).
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41121/oregon-standoff-members-of-congress/
The Feds missed an armed chance here with this confab to widen the net of seditious vermin republicans who need to be neutralized, arrested, and executed.
Coddle and indulge armed f*cking vigilantes.
This piece of sh*t ought to be approached from the back as one would an unarmed black kid and dispatched if she makes a single move for her Skittles, er, I mean, lipstick:
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/dec/07/michele-fiore-says-she-wants-to-shoot-syrian-refug/
It’s nice of her family to line up to face the receiving end of a firing squad:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michele-fiore-christmas-card-guns_566217d9e4b08e945fefa597
Happy Holidays!
Every public meeting held by Republicans this year, every public appearance by Republicans, and every piece of federal, state, and local public property in every district represented by Republicans needs to be taken over by armed liberal militia with the military weaponry sold to us by the NRA and pointed at their faces.
This is how business is going to be conducted from now on this country.
At the point of a gun.
Thanks for the example, you murderous republican assholes.
Demands:
First demand: Fire first, Republicans, so we can return overwhelming fire in self-defense.
End of demands.
Fact finding?
Yeah.
From the Texas Republican Party Platform, courtesy of subhuman anti-American fascist David Barton:
“Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.”
They have fixed beliefs alright.
But they aren’t bulletproof.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41121/oregon-standoff-members-of-congress/
The Feds missed an armed chance here with this confab to widen the net of seditious vermin republicans who need to be neutralized, arrested, and executed.
Coddle and indulge armed f*cking vigilantes.
This piece of sh*t ought to be approached from the back as one would an unarmed black kid and dispatched if she makes a single move for her Skittles, er, I mean, lipstick:
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/dec/07/michele-fiore-says-she-wants-to-shoot-syrian-refug/
It’s nice of her family to line up to face the receiving end of a firing squad:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michele-fiore-christmas-card-guns_566217d9e4b08e945fefa597
Happy Holidays!
Every public meeting held by Republicans this year, every public appearance by Republicans, and every piece of federal, state, and local public property in every district represented by Republicans needs to be taken over by armed liberal militia with the military weaponry sold to us by the NRA and pointed at their faces.
This is how business is going to be conducted from now on this country.
At the point of a gun.
Thanks for the example, you murderous republican assholes.
Demands:
First demand: Fire first, Republicans, so we can return overwhelming fire in self-defense.
End of demands.
Fact finding?
Yeah.
From the Texas Republican Party Platform, courtesy of subhuman anti-American fascist David Barton:
“Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.”
They have fixed beliefs alright.
But they aren’t bulletproof.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41121/oregon-standoff-members-of-congress/
The Feds missed an armed chance here with this confab to widen the net of seditious vermin republicans who need to be neutralized, arrested, and executed.
Coddle and indulge armed f*cking vigilantes.
This piece of sh*t ought to be approached from the back as one would an unarmed black kid and dispatched if she makes a single move for her Skittles, er, I mean, lipstick:
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/dec/07/michele-fiore-says-she-wants-to-shoot-syrian-refug/
It’s nice of her family to line up to face the receiving end of a firing squad:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michele-fiore-christmas-card-guns_566217d9e4b08e945fefa597
Happy Holidays!
Every public meeting held by Republicans this year, every public appearance by Republicans, and every piece of federal, state, and local public property in every district represented by Republicans needs to be taken over by armed liberal militia with the military weaponry sold to us by the NRA and pointed at their faces.
This is how business is going to be conducted from now on this country.
At the point of a gun.
Thanks for the example, you murderous republican assholes.
Demands:
First demand: Fire first, Republicans, so we can return overwhelming fire in self-defense.
End of demands.
Fact finding?
Yeah.
From the Texas Republican Party Platform, courtesy of subhuman anti-American fascist David Barton:
“Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.”
They have fixed beliefs alright.
But they aren’t bulletproof.
Birders are massing:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-catholic-hospital-interfering-with-medical-care-20160108-column.html
I hope they turned in their politically correct binoculars for grenade launchers and long range rifles gun scopes.
Birders are massing:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-catholic-hospital-interfering-with-medical-care-20160108-column.html
I hope they turned in their politically correct binoculars for grenade launchers and long range rifles gun scopes.
Birders are massing:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-catholic-hospital-interfering-with-medical-care-20160108-column.html
I hope they turned in their politically correct binoculars for grenade launchers and long range rifles gun scopes.
We’ll take care of the Catholic hospitals denying care to American citizens without Republican dicks, but in the meantime here’s the correct link to the immediate violence that needs to happen:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/11/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-update-day-9-the-three-ring-circus-edition/
Somehow, I don’t think birders are enough.
We’ll take care of the Catholic hospitals denying care to American citizens without Republican dicks, but in the meantime here’s the correct link to the immediate violence that needs to happen:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/11/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-update-day-9-the-three-ring-circus-edition/
Somehow, I don’t think birders are enough.
We’ll take care of the Catholic hospitals denying care to American citizens without Republican dicks, but in the meantime here’s the correct link to the immediate violence that needs to happen:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/11/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-update-day-9-the-three-ring-circus-edition/
Somehow, I don’t think birders are enough.
Somehow, even with the Walmart camo, I can gun sight their brain pans:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-rips-apart-fence-at-malheur-wildlife-refuge
Somehow, even with the Walmart camo, I can gun sight their brain pans:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-rips-apart-fence-at-malheur-wildlife-refuge
Somehow, even with the Walmart camo, I can gun sight their brain pans:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-rips-apart-fence-at-malheur-wildlife-refuge
FWIW, I see the ‘tearing down the fence’ thing as good old American civil disobedience. Not much different than chaining yourself to a tree. Probably less dangerous than spiking timber, or setting fire to condos.
Let your freak flag fly.
What’s different with the Bundy’s is that, unlike folks who chain themselves to trees, or set fire to condos, is that they (the Bundys) are not likely to be tazed, or shot with rubber or wooden bullets, or sprayed in the face with pepper spray, or have their asses physically manhandled off to jail. Or, for that matter, categorized as terrorists and pursued and prosecuted on that basis, with little or no concern for constitutional protections.
They are granted free and unmolested access to and from their occupation site, and are granted respectful, hands-off treatment from all relevant law enforcement organizations.
If the earlier Bundy adventures are any indication, none of them will see a day in jail. None will even pay a fine.
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
I understand that we don’t want a replay of Ruby Ridge or Waco, but I’m also hoping that the principle of bring a gun equals get out of jail free doesn’t become a thing.
300+ million people live here. We don’t all want the same things. What keeps the wheels on is our willingness to deal with each other on friendly-ish terms.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” doesn’t count as friendy-ish.
There needs to be a way to acknowledge the problems that rural and ranching people live with, but also acknowledge the interests of everybody else. And, not tolerate threats of political violence.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” is political violence. If that’s really how folks feel, then I guess we’re going to have to have it on. But it’s unlikely to end well, and it’s unlikely to produce a result that anybody, at all, is happy with.
If these guys want to tear up some fence, fine. Make your point, have your say, we’ll see you in court. Like everybody else that puts their @ss on the line for whatever point it is they feel they need to make.
But if you want to be part of the overall community, you need to put the f***king guns away.
When the guns come out, the conversation is at an end.
FWIW, I see the ‘tearing down the fence’ thing as good old American civil disobedience. Not much different than chaining yourself to a tree. Probably less dangerous than spiking timber, or setting fire to condos.
Let your freak flag fly.
What’s different with the Bundy’s is that, unlike folks who chain themselves to trees, or set fire to condos, is that they (the Bundys) are not likely to be tazed, or shot with rubber or wooden bullets, or sprayed in the face with pepper spray, or have their asses physically manhandled off to jail. Or, for that matter, categorized as terrorists and pursued and prosecuted on that basis, with little or no concern for constitutional protections.
They are granted free and unmolested access to and from their occupation site, and are granted respectful, hands-off treatment from all relevant law enforcement organizations.
If the earlier Bundy adventures are any indication, none of them will see a day in jail. None will even pay a fine.
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
I understand that we don’t want a replay of Ruby Ridge or Waco, but I’m also hoping that the principle of bring a gun equals get out of jail free doesn’t become a thing.
300+ million people live here. We don’t all want the same things. What keeps the wheels on is our willingness to deal with each other on friendly-ish terms.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” doesn’t count as friendy-ish.
There needs to be a way to acknowledge the problems that rural and ranching people live with, but also acknowledge the interests of everybody else. And, not tolerate threats of political violence.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” is political violence. If that’s really how folks feel, then I guess we’re going to have to have it on. But it’s unlikely to end well, and it’s unlikely to produce a result that anybody, at all, is happy with.
If these guys want to tear up some fence, fine. Make your point, have your say, we’ll see you in court. Like everybody else that puts their @ss on the line for whatever point it is they feel they need to make.
But if you want to be part of the overall community, you need to put the f***king guns away.
When the guns come out, the conversation is at an end.
FWIW, I see the ‘tearing down the fence’ thing as good old American civil disobedience. Not much different than chaining yourself to a tree. Probably less dangerous than spiking timber, or setting fire to condos.
Let your freak flag fly.
What’s different with the Bundy’s is that, unlike folks who chain themselves to trees, or set fire to condos, is that they (the Bundys) are not likely to be tazed, or shot with rubber or wooden bullets, or sprayed in the face with pepper spray, or have their asses physically manhandled off to jail. Or, for that matter, categorized as terrorists and pursued and prosecuted on that basis, with little or no concern for constitutional protections.
They are granted free and unmolested access to and from their occupation site, and are granted respectful, hands-off treatment from all relevant law enforcement organizations.
If the earlier Bundy adventures are any indication, none of them will see a day in jail. None will even pay a fine.
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
I understand that we don’t want a replay of Ruby Ridge or Waco, but I’m also hoping that the principle of bring a gun equals get out of jail free doesn’t become a thing.
300+ million people live here. We don’t all want the same things. What keeps the wheels on is our willingness to deal with each other on friendly-ish terms.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” doesn’t count as friendy-ish.
There needs to be a way to acknowledge the problems that rural and ranching people live with, but also acknowledge the interests of everybody else. And, not tolerate threats of political violence.
“I’ll kill you if you if I don’t get my way” is political violence. If that’s really how folks feel, then I guess we’re going to have to have it on. But it’s unlikely to end well, and it’s unlikely to produce a result that anybody, at all, is happy with.
If these guys want to tear up some fence, fine. Make your point, have your say, we’ll see you in court. Like everybody else that puts their @ss on the line for whatever point it is they feel they need to make.
But if you want to be part of the overall community, you need to put the f***king guns away.
When the guns come out, the conversation is at an end.
I don’t disagree with your 11:116 russell. The only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen. You can sit in there until hell, or Oregon, freezes over but nothing/no one goes in.
Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.
I don’t disagree with your 11:116 russell. The only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen. You can sit in there until hell, or Oregon, freezes over but nothing/no one goes in.
Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.
I don’t disagree with your 11:116 russell. The only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen. You can sit in there until hell, or Oregon, freezes over but nothing/no one goes in.
Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being more or less in the middle of nowhere is probably a big part of it, though I agree with your overall point about ad hoc armed militias not being a good thing. That’s revolution, coup d’état, civil-war kind of stuff rather than run-of-the-mill civil disobedience.
I just don’t think this sh1t would fly in, say, downtown Baltimore (or even Dallas, and even with the cowboy hats).
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being more or less in the middle of nowhere is probably a big part of it, though I agree with your overall point about ad hoc armed militias not being a good thing. That’s revolution, coup d’état, civil-war kind of stuff rather than run-of-the-mill civil disobedience.
I just don’t think this sh1t would fly in, say, downtown Baltimore (or even Dallas, and even with the cowboy hats).
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being more or less in the middle of nowhere is probably a big part of it, though I agree with your overall point about ad hoc armed militias not being a good thing. That’s revolution, coup d’état, civil-war kind of stuff rather than run-of-the-mill civil disobedience.
I just don’t think this sh1t would fly in, say, downtown Baltimore (or even Dallas, and even with the cowboy hats).
Or I should refresh before posting a largely redundant comment. Thanks a lot, Marty!
Or I should refresh before posting a largely redundant comment. Thanks a lot, Marty!
Or I should refresh before posting a largely redundant comment. Thanks a lot, Marty!
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ben-carson-muslim-guests-state-of-the-union
I call for the investigation of every Republican attending the SOTU and full inquiries into their suspect loyalties. The ones watching it on TV ought to be looked into as well, considering their anti-American inclinations.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/donald-trump-chinese-sure-knew-how-display-toughness-tiananmen-square
I call for tough, strong, implacable strengthy strength against all conservative and Republican dissent on American soil. Let’s do things the Republican way and crush and destroy all opposition by any means. Get armed and get busy.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/liz-mair-ann-coulter-donald-trump
Ms Mair is absolutely right. Trump/Coulter are no conservatives. If you want truly
murderous conservative Republican action against those who require medical care, a decent retirement, and against the poor, and to roll back all environmental regulation, you’ll want the true cold-blooded vermin killers in office — Bush, Rubio, Ryan.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/map-day-we-hae-met-enemy-and-enemy-squirrels
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Drays and scurries of radical liberal, black, gay and good American Muslim squirrels are even now rushing single-file and bushy-tailed across the electrical grid’s transmission lines from all points and converging on the Malheur Refuge wearing exploding vests to take out the nuts.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ben-carson-muslim-guests-state-of-the-union
I call for the investigation of every Republican attending the SOTU and full inquiries into their suspect loyalties. The ones watching it on TV ought to be looked into as well, considering their anti-American inclinations.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/donald-trump-chinese-sure-knew-how-display-toughness-tiananmen-square
I call for tough, strong, implacable strengthy strength against all conservative and Republican dissent on American soil. Let’s do things the Republican way and crush and destroy all opposition by any means. Get armed and get busy.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/liz-mair-ann-coulter-donald-trump
Ms Mair is absolutely right. Trump/Coulter are no conservatives. If you want truly
murderous conservative Republican action against those who require medical care, a decent retirement, and against the poor, and to roll back all environmental regulation, you’ll want the true cold-blooded vermin killers in office — Bush, Rubio, Ryan.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/map-day-we-hae-met-enemy-and-enemy-squirrels
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Drays and scurries of radical liberal, black, gay and good American Muslim squirrels are even now rushing single-file and bushy-tailed across the electrical grid’s transmission lines from all points and converging on the Malheur Refuge wearing exploding vests to take out the nuts.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ben-carson-muslim-guests-state-of-the-union
I call for the investigation of every Republican attending the SOTU and full inquiries into their suspect loyalties. The ones watching it on TV ought to be looked into as well, considering their anti-American inclinations.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/donald-trump-chinese-sure-knew-how-display-toughness-tiananmen-square
I call for tough, strong, implacable strengthy strength against all conservative and Republican dissent on American soil. Let’s do things the Republican way and crush and destroy all opposition by any means. Get armed and get busy.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/liz-mair-ann-coulter-donald-trump
Ms Mair is absolutely right. Trump/Coulter are no conservatives. If you want truly
murderous conservative Republican action against those who require medical care, a decent retirement, and against the poor, and to roll back all environmental regulation, you’ll want the true cold-blooded vermin killers in office — Bush, Rubio, Ryan.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/map-day-we-hae-met-enemy-and-enemy-squirrels
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Drays and scurries of radical liberal, black, gay and good American Muslim squirrels are even now rushing single-file and bushy-tailed across the electrical grid’s transmission lines from all points and converging on the Malheur Refuge wearing exploding vests to take out the nuts.
he only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
that’s simply because Bundy et al moved in after all the employees had gone home for the holiday weekend.
he only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
that’s simply because Bundy et al moved in after all the employees had gone home for the holiday weekend.
he only thing I would point out is that they are occupying essentially empty space. They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.
that’s simply because Bundy et al moved in after all the employees had gone home for the holiday weekend.
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being in the middle of nowhere definitely helps. But it would appear that the critical thing, especially if you bring guns, is to be loud and clear that you are libertaria, not liberal. That way, the far right echo chamber will be supporting you, rather than demanding your scalp. (You don’t have to worry so much about the left wing. They wouldn’t try to kill you anyway.)
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being in the middle of nowhere definitely helps. But it would appear that the critical thing, especially if you bring guns, is to be loud and clear that you are libertaria, not liberal. That way, the far right echo chamber will be supporting you, rather than demanding your scalp. (You don’t have to worry so much about the left wing. They wouldn’t try to kill you anyway.)
What do we take away from this? If you’re going to engage in civil disobedience, bring your guns? Wear a cowboy hat? Don’t be a hippie?
Being in the middle of nowhere definitely helps. But it would appear that the critical thing, especially if you bring guns, is to be loud and clear that you are libertaria, not liberal. That way, the far right echo chamber will be supporting you, rather than demanding your scalp. (You don’t have to worry so much about the left wing. They wouldn’t try to kill you anyway.)
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Does the fact that the squirrels are nibbling thru the wires of my electrical power system validate my being a Republican stronghold?
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Does the fact that the squirrels are nibbling thru the wires of my electrical power system validate my being a Republican stronghold?
The squirrels are my confederates. They have been sent to nibble through and cut off all electrical power and communications to Republican strongholds across the country.
Does the fact that the squirrels are nibbling thru the wires of my electrical power system validate my being a Republican stronghold?
Yes
Yes
Yes
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
“They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.”
Well then, in addition to stopping at the local gas station to pick up some Skittles on the way up there, they are in exactly in the same situation as Trayvon Martin was, pre-gunfire.
Lucky duckies.
I’m curious, Marty, if over the weekend armed thugs took over one of the many buildings in which you have enjoyed private-sector employment over the years and you showed up Monday morning and not only found out you were locked out but that they were going through your personnel files to get your address, phone number, and SS# for future armed harassment of you and your family, would you be so cavalier about the empty space they occupy.
The f*cking Sheriff in the town had to send his wife and kids away to avoid harassment.
Posse Comitatus (a body of men, typically armed, summoned by a sheriff to enforce the law.), my ass.
“Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.”
I agree. The liberal urge to call in armed oppression is so pussified compared to conservative law and order tough guys running law enforcement in communities of color.
Obama the dictator, right?
It was amazing in 1970 how quickly heavily-armed National Guard troops with military weaponry showed up at college buildings when unarmed liberals set up shop for a little civil disobedience.
“They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.”
Well then, in addition to stopping at the local gas station to pick up some Skittles on the way up there, they are in exactly in the same situation as Trayvon Martin was, pre-gunfire.
Lucky duckies.
I’m curious, Marty, if over the weekend armed thugs took over one of the many buildings in which you have enjoyed private-sector employment over the years and you showed up Monday morning and not only found out you were locked out but that they were going through your personnel files to get your address, phone number, and SS# for future armed harassment of you and your family, would you be so cavalier about the empty space they occupy.
The f*cking Sheriff in the town had to send his wife and kids away to avoid harassment.
Posse Comitatus (a body of men, typically armed, summoned by a sheriff to enforce the law.), my ass.
“Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.”
I agree. The liberal urge to call in armed oppression is so pussified compared to conservative law and order tough guys running law enforcement in communities of color.
Obama the dictator, right?
It was amazing in 1970 how quickly heavily-armed National Guard troops with military weaponry showed up at college buildings when unarmed liberals set up shop for a little civil disobedience.
“They didn’t run anyone out of the empty buildings they occupied.”
Well then, in addition to stopping at the local gas station to pick up some Skittles on the way up there, they are in exactly in the same situation as Trayvon Martin was, pre-gunfire.
Lucky duckies.
I’m curious, Marty, if over the weekend armed thugs took over one of the many buildings in which you have enjoyed private-sector employment over the years and you showed up Monday morning and not only found out you were locked out but that they were going through your personnel files to get your address, phone number, and SS# for future armed harassment of you and your family, would you be so cavalier about the empty space they occupy.
The f*cking Sheriff in the town had to send his wife and kids away to avoid harassment.
Posse Comitatus (a body of men, typically armed, summoned by a sheriff to enforce the law.), my ass.
“Otherwise, the law isn’t doing it right.”
I agree. The liberal urge to call in armed oppression is so pussified compared to conservative law and order tough guys running law enforcement in communities of color.
Obama the dictator, right?
It was amazing in 1970 how quickly heavily-armed National Guard troops with military weaponry showed up at college buildings when unarmed liberals set up shop for a little civil disobedience.
For you wj, only moderate, reasonable nibbling evenhandedly distributed across the voltage spectrum, AC and DC.
For you wj, only moderate, reasonable nibbling evenhandedly distributed across the voltage spectrum, AC and DC.
For you wj, only moderate, reasonable nibbling evenhandedly distributed across the voltage spectrum, AC and DC.
OR judge says he’s going to fine the Bundy Boys $70K/day. good.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
OR judge says he’s going to fine the Bundy Boys $70K/day. good.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
OR judge says he’s going to fine the Bundy Boys $70K/day. good.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-judge-plans-to-bill-ammon-bundy-up-to-70000-a-day-for-security-costs-to-county/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
Not to mention you hurried indecisiveness when crossing the street.
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
Not to mention you hurried indecisiveness when crossing the street.
based on the length and quality of my attention span, I think squirrels are actually my spirit animal.
Not to mention you hurried indecisiveness when crossing the street.
The statement from Jon Ritzheimer at the end of the article cleek linked demonstrates some delusional and grandiose thinking. The guy thinks he’s friggn’ Paul Revere or something.
The statement from Jon Ritzheimer at the end of the article cleek linked demonstrates some delusional and grandiose thinking. The guy thinks he’s friggn’ Paul Revere or something.
The statement from Jon Ritzheimer at the end of the article cleek linked demonstrates some delusional and grandiose thinking. The guy thinks he’s friggn’ Paul Revere or something.
Russell says that squirrels are his spirit animal. And Russell is an admitted liberal.
Therefore, squirrels are liberals.
Squirrels are chewing on the wiring for my solar panels.
Therefore, liberals hate solar power systems.
QED.
And any purported “facts” to the contrary are merely a conspiracy to discredit real Americans!
(Just channelling my inner Trump. Or would be, except that I allowed a couple of real facts to intrude. Gotta work on that…)
Russell says that squirrels are his spirit animal. And Russell is an admitted liberal.
Therefore, squirrels are liberals.
Squirrels are chewing on the wiring for my solar panels.
Therefore, liberals hate solar power systems.
QED.
And any purported “facts” to the contrary are merely a conspiracy to discredit real Americans!
(Just channelling my inner Trump. Or would be, except that I allowed a couple of real facts to intrude. Gotta work on that…)
Russell says that squirrels are his spirit animal. And Russell is an admitted liberal.
Therefore, squirrels are liberals.
Squirrels are chewing on the wiring for my solar panels.
Therefore, liberals hate solar power systems.
QED.
And any purported “facts” to the contrary are merely a conspiracy to discredit real Americans!
(Just channelling my inner Trump. Or would be, except that I allowed a couple of real facts to intrude. Gotta work on that…)
Looks like citizens screwed over by Volkswagon will have to strap weapons on and take over all VW manufacturing plants, corporate offices, and dealerships, not to mention corrupt Republican Tea Party vermin congressional offices, courtrooms, homes, and PAC addresses.
To get their grievances aired and then begin negotiating settlements at gunpoint.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41154/volkswagen-bailout/
Didn’t the Boston Tea Party fake Indians have VW advertising tattooed on their white asses?
Tea Party populists? Har, har, har.
Looks like citizens screwed over by Volkswagon will have to strap weapons on and take over all VW manufacturing plants, corporate offices, and dealerships, not to mention corrupt Republican Tea Party vermin congressional offices, courtrooms, homes, and PAC addresses.
To get their grievances aired and then begin negotiating settlements at gunpoint.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41154/volkswagen-bailout/
Didn’t the Boston Tea Party fake Indians have VW advertising tattooed on their white asses?
Tea Party populists? Har, har, har.
Looks like citizens screwed over by Volkswagon will have to strap weapons on and take over all VW manufacturing plants, corporate offices, and dealerships, not to mention corrupt Republican Tea Party vermin congressional offices, courtrooms, homes, and PAC addresses.
To get their grievances aired and then begin negotiating settlements at gunpoint.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41154/volkswagen-bailout/
Didn’t the Boston Tea Party fake Indians have VW advertising tattooed on their white asses?
Tea Party populists? Har, har, har.
Since we don’t seem to have an open thread, American Ingenuity Overcomes Tyrannical Eurosocialist Meddling Once Again, But Still Can’t Keep the Chickens Warm:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12093545/Return-of-incandescent-light-bulbs-as-MIT-makes-them-more-efficient-than-LEDs.html
Since we don’t seem to have an open thread, American Ingenuity Overcomes Tyrannical Eurosocialist Meddling Once Again, But Still Can’t Keep the Chickens Warm:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12093545/Return-of-incandescent-light-bulbs-as-MIT-makes-them-more-efficient-than-LEDs.html
Since we don’t seem to have an open thread, American Ingenuity Overcomes Tyrannical Eurosocialist Meddling Once Again, But Still Can’t Keep the Chickens Warm:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12093545/Return-of-incandescent-light-bulbs-as-MIT-makes-them-more-efficient-than-LEDs.html
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen.
There’s been published references to their comings and goings, up to and including some “occupiers” staying in local motels. I have to say that sort of thing doesn’t exactly point to traditional rugged self-sufficiency. Don’t we as Americans deserve a better class of armed occupiers?
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen.
There’s been published references to their comings and goings, up to and including some “occupiers” staying in local motels. I have to say that sort of thing doesn’t exactly point to traditional rugged self-sufficiency. Don’t we as Americans deserve a better class of armed occupiers?
I’m not up to speed enough to know if people are really coming and going, if I were in charge that wouldn’t happen.
There’s been published references to their comings and goings, up to and including some “occupiers” staying in local motels. I have to say that sort of thing doesn’t exactly point to traditional rugged self-sufficiency. Don’t we as Americans deserve a better class of armed occupiers?
Was that breakthrough achieved by scientists working on a government grant? How do we know it’s not fraud and a hoax?
Seems suspiciously elitist and not prone to fixed immutable ideas which shall not be tampered with.
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cincinnati-man-kills-son-intruder
It just seems to take too long.
Was that breakthrough achieved by scientists working on a government grant? How do we know it’s not fraud and a hoax?
Seems suspiciously elitist and not prone to fixed immutable ideas which shall not be tampered with.
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cincinnati-man-kills-son-intruder
It just seems to take too long.
Was that breakthrough achieved by scientists working on a government grant? How do we know it’s not fraud and a hoax?
Seems suspiciously elitist and not prone to fixed immutable ideas which shall not be tampered with.
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cincinnati-man-kills-son-intruder
It just seems to take too long.
At least this guy shot and killed an intruder along with his brother and housemate. 1 for 3 is better than 0 for 1, right? Or is 2 dead good guys worse than 1 dead good guy? It’s very confusing, this math stuff.
At least this guy shot and killed an intruder along with his brother and housemate. 1 for 3 is better than 0 for 1, right? Or is 2 dead good guys worse than 1 dead good guy? It’s very confusing, this math stuff.
At least this guy shot and killed an intruder along with his brother and housemate. 1 for 3 is better than 0 for 1, right? Or is 2 dead good guys worse than 1 dead good guy? It’s very confusing, this math stuff.
Tee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservation-poll-westerners-favor-federal-lands
Hee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wapo-op-ed-cruz-citizenship
Tee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservation-poll-westerners-favor-federal-lands
Hee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wapo-op-ed-cruz-citizenship
Tee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservation-poll-westerners-favor-federal-lands
Hee:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wapo-op-ed-cruz-citizenship
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-cash-goes-smoke-us-175000936.html
Obama should use taking out vermin ISIS financing like this as practice runs for taking out militia filth and Citizens United.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-cash-goes-smoke-us-175000936.html
Obama should use taking out vermin ISIS financing like this as practice runs for taking out militia filth and Citizens United.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-cash-goes-smoke-us-175000936.html
Obama should use taking out vermin ISIS financing like this as practice runs for taking out militia filth and Citizens United.
even David Brooks thinks Cruz is unacceptable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/opinion/the-brutalism-of-ted-cruz.html?_r=0
even David Brooks thinks Cruz is unacceptable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/opinion/the-brutalism-of-ted-cruz.html?_r=0
even David Brooks thinks Cruz is unacceptable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/opinion/the-brutalism-of-ted-cruz.html?_r=0
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
This reminds me of something i think Atrios has said on numerous occasions and perhaps commenters here (at least Turbulence about Bellmore, I think) – there is a certain subset of gun owners that *want* to shoot an intruder, that dream of it, that sit there hoping, even daring, someone to come into their home so they can “justifiably” shoot/kill someone.
So you end up with tragedies (assuming that’s what it was) like those at the Count’s link. It’s really just insane.
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
This reminds me of something i think Atrios has said on numerous occasions and perhaps commenters here (at least Turbulence about Bellmore, I think) – there is a certain subset of gun owners that *want* to shoot an intruder, that dream of it, that sit there hoping, even daring, someone to come into their home so they can “justifiably” shoot/kill someone.
So you end up with tragedies (assuming that’s what it was) like those at the Count’s link. It’s really just insane.
I’m all for First Amendment aficionados carrying on with this decades-long program to put themselves out of business by killing themselves and their own children:
This reminds me of something i think Atrios has said on numerous occasions and perhaps commenters here (at least Turbulence about Bellmore, I think) – there is a certain subset of gun owners that *want* to shoot an intruder, that dream of it, that sit there hoping, even daring, someone to come into their home so they can “justifiably” shoot/kill someone.
So you end up with tragedies (assuming that’s what it was) like those at the Count’s link. It’s really just insane.
who knows what the guy thought or dreamed of.
I mostly just feel badly for him. I don’t know how you live through killing your own kid.
who knows what the guy thought or dreamed of.
I mostly just feel badly for him. I don’t know how you live through killing your own kid.
who knows what the guy thought or dreamed of.
I mostly just feel badly for him. I don’t know how you live through killing your own kid.
cleek, David Brooks is wrong about Ted Cruz:
Oh, Cruz is brutal alright, but that’s exactly what the Christian conservative base, which wants hell on Earth for its enemies, finds so appealing.
Cruz and Trump (the others vie for the adoration of the filth right-wing as well), not Brooks, have put their fingers on the G-spot of the conservative Christian base the Republican Party has been sucking up to for forty years — their brutality.
Nixon and the Silent Majority. Vigurie , Falwell, Robertson, Atwater, Helms, Delay, Ralph Reed, John Birch Society and their atheist fellow travelers in the Ayn Rand cotorie, all racist, corrupt subhuman right wing Christian conservatives, the essence and lifeblood of the conservative bowel movement loosed upon us.
Cruz, Trump, and Carson are just the new improved velociraptors, the morphing aliens with additional snapping jaws lubricated with the acid of Republican hate for everything that is not them. Chips off the old block.
They are the apotheosis of the racist, fascist, and yes, Christian Republican movement since forever.
It’s 2015. Look at this sh*t:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
When I say apotheosis, I don’t mean these lot are the worst the Republican Party has to offer. That still lies ahead. And those that will follow will be world-ending violent, brutal, and ruthless.
It gets exponentially worse every election cycle.
You won’t have liberals being beaten merely up at Trump rallies. No, armed conservatives will be gunning liberals down who dare to speak up at future Republican rallies, and law enforcement will do NOTHING.
Hence the constant, unceasing stockpiling of arms and ammo.
Then the killing will commence apace in this country.
David Brooks will disavow that too. Too late, David. You’d better hide.
cleek, David Brooks is wrong about Ted Cruz:
Oh, Cruz is brutal alright, but that’s exactly what the Christian conservative base, which wants hell on Earth for its enemies, finds so appealing.
Cruz and Trump (the others vie for the adoration of the filth right-wing as well), not Brooks, have put their fingers on the G-spot of the conservative Christian base the Republican Party has been sucking up to for forty years — their brutality.
Nixon and the Silent Majority. Vigurie , Falwell, Robertson, Atwater, Helms, Delay, Ralph Reed, John Birch Society and their atheist fellow travelers in the Ayn Rand cotorie, all racist, corrupt subhuman right wing Christian conservatives, the essence and lifeblood of the conservative bowel movement loosed upon us.
Cruz, Trump, and Carson are just the new improved velociraptors, the morphing aliens with additional snapping jaws lubricated with the acid of Republican hate for everything that is not them. Chips off the old block.
They are the apotheosis of the racist, fascist, and yes, Christian Republican movement since forever.
It’s 2015. Look at this sh*t:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
When I say apotheosis, I don’t mean these lot are the worst the Republican Party has to offer. That still lies ahead. And those that will follow will be world-ending violent, brutal, and ruthless.
It gets exponentially worse every election cycle.
You won’t have liberals being beaten merely up at Trump rallies. No, armed conservatives will be gunning liberals down who dare to speak up at future Republican rallies, and law enforcement will do NOTHING.
Hence the constant, unceasing stockpiling of arms and ammo.
Then the killing will commence apace in this country.
David Brooks will disavow that too. Too late, David. You’d better hide.
cleek, David Brooks is wrong about Ted Cruz:
Oh, Cruz is brutal alright, but that’s exactly what the Christian conservative base, which wants hell on Earth for its enemies, finds so appealing.
Cruz and Trump (the others vie for the adoration of the filth right-wing as well), not Brooks, have put their fingers on the G-spot of the conservative Christian base the Republican Party has been sucking up to for forty years — their brutality.
Nixon and the Silent Majority. Vigurie , Falwell, Robertson, Atwater, Helms, Delay, Ralph Reed, John Birch Society and their atheist fellow travelers in the Ayn Rand cotorie, all racist, corrupt subhuman right wing Christian conservatives, the essence and lifeblood of the conservative bowel movement loosed upon us.
Cruz, Trump, and Carson are just the new improved velociraptors, the morphing aliens with additional snapping jaws lubricated with the acid of Republican hate for everything that is not them. Chips off the old block.
They are the apotheosis of the racist, fascist, and yes, Christian Republican movement since forever.
It’s 2015. Look at this sh*t:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
When I say apotheosis, I don’t mean these lot are the worst the Republican Party has to offer. That still lies ahead. And those that will follow will be world-ending violent, brutal, and ruthless.
It gets exponentially worse every election cycle.
You won’t have liberals being beaten merely up at Trump rallies. No, armed conservatives will be gunning liberals down who dare to speak up at future Republican rallies, and law enforcement will do NOTHING.
Hence the constant, unceasing stockpiling of arms and ammo.
Then the killing will commence apace in this country.
David Brooks will disavow that too. Too late, David. You’d better hide.
Some good news:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
Some good news:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
Some good news:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/william-johnson-jared-taylor-trump
Elect me President, and Steve King’s seat will be left empty because of the unfortunate accident he had while on his way to murdering the already born:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/steve-king-abortion-sotu-empty-seat
The ways things are going, there won’t be an occupied seat in the house tonight.
Elect me President, and Steve King’s seat will be left empty because of the unfortunate accident he had while on his way to murdering the already born:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/steve-king-abortion-sotu-empty-seat
The ways things are going, there won’t be an occupied seat in the house tonight.
Elect me President, and Steve King’s seat will be left empty because of the unfortunate accident he had while on his way to murdering the already born:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/steve-king-abortion-sotu-empty-seat
The ways things are going, there won’t be an occupied seat in the house tonight.
that news at my 6:07 wasn’t the good news.
this is:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/louisiana-governor-medicaid-expansion
that news at my 6:07 wasn’t the good news.
this is:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/louisiana-governor-medicaid-expansion
that news at my 6:07 wasn’t the good news.
this is:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/louisiana-governor-medicaid-expansion
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
He’s Canadian.
He’s Canadian.
He’s Canadian.
They have mental hospitals in Texas, but I repeat myself.
Staff and patients may not carry weapons.
The jagoff off the street can:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/P
They have mental hospitals in Texas, but I repeat myself.
Staff and patients may not carry weapons.
The jagoff off the street can:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/P
They have mental hospitals in Texas, but I repeat myself.
Staff and patients may not carry weapons.
The jagoff off the street can:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/P
So much crazy, so little keyboard dexterity.
Here’s the right link:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/
So much crazy, so little keyboard dexterity.
Here’s the right link:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/
So much crazy, so little keyboard dexterity.
Here’s the right link:
http://juanitajean.com/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
Pretty simple, really. He treats them the way that they would like treat the rest of the country.
It’s not quite karma, but being paid in the currency that you dish out can be really irritating. Especially when you think you are too good to be treated that way.
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
Pretty simple, really. He treats them the way that they would like treat the rest of the country.
It’s not quite karma, but being paid in the currency that you dish out can be really irritating. Especially when you think you are too good to be treated that way.
I wonder what Cruz did to piss off so many Republicans in Congress? He doesn’t seem any worse than the norm for the party.
Pretty simple, really. He treats them the way that they would like treat the rest of the country.
It’s not quite karma, but being paid in the currency that you dish out can be really irritating. Especially when you think you are too good to be treated that way.
Does anybody know where McKinney is? Let’s hope giving up ObWi wasn’t his New Year’s resolution….
Does anybody know where McKinney is? Let’s hope giving up ObWi wasn’t his New Year’s resolution….
Does anybody know where McKinney is? Let’s hope giving up ObWi wasn’t his New Year’s resolution….
He’s busy with work.
Also taking some time off from OBWI, the duration of which is anyone’s guess.
He’s busy with work.
Also taking some time off from OBWI, the duration of which is anyone’s guess.
He’s busy with work.
Also taking some time off from OBWI, the duration of which is anyone’s guess.
His caseload may have popped in the aftermath of new year celebrations… 🙂
His caseload may have popped in the aftermath of new year celebrations… 🙂
His caseload may have popped in the aftermath of new year celebrations… 🙂
Thanks Count. Loving all your contributions, as always, just (mainly) resisting saying so!
Thanks Count. Loving all your contributions, as always, just (mainly) resisting saying so!
Thanks Count. Loving all your contributions, as always, just (mainly) resisting saying so!
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/oregon-militiamen-prepare-for-grand-jury-against-local-officials
That link might be bad, because TPM looks to be down, so try again later.
I done hear tell he’s a hanging computer technician.
He’s from Colorado. Unfortunately, and I’m truly sorry about this, America, the Citizen’s Initiative I got placed on the ballot last time round in Colorado mandating the shooting in the head at will of all right-wing morons in my state just missed being passed.
Morons obviously turned out in droves at the ballot box.
I need to find his address.
Funny thing about federal employees in these here parts and throughout the West, especially those in the Interior Department where I once worked — they are inveterate outdoorsmen and women. Can track and shoot mammals of the four-footed variety at a distance with hunting rifle or bow. Bleed em out, clean and dress em with a single knife.
I remember some of them wearing camo to the office even, the better to circle round and get behind whatever game happen to be hunting THEM on their weekend hunting trips.
I don’t spose it would be too much different with mammals of the two-footed variety, the shootin and the cleanin and the dressin, I mean.
Anyone got any recipes for barbecued computer technician. I hear they taste gamey, but if you leave em hanging for a few weeks out in the shed, they ain’t bad.
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/oregon-militiamen-prepare-for-grand-jury-against-local-officials
That link might be bad, because TPM looks to be down, so try again later.
I done hear tell he’s a hanging computer technician.
He’s from Colorado. Unfortunately, and I’m truly sorry about this, America, the Citizen’s Initiative I got placed on the ballot last time round in Colorado mandating the shooting in the head at will of all right-wing morons in my state just missed being passed.
Morons obviously turned out in droves at the ballot box.
I need to find his address.
Funny thing about federal employees in these here parts and throughout the West, especially those in the Interior Department where I once worked — they are inveterate outdoorsmen and women. Can track and shoot mammals of the four-footed variety at a distance with hunting rifle or bow. Bleed em out, clean and dress em with a single knife.
I remember some of them wearing camo to the office even, the better to circle round and get behind whatever game happen to be hunting THEM on their weekend hunting trips.
I don’t spose it would be too much different with mammals of the two-footed variety, the shootin and the cleanin and the dressin, I mean.
Anyone got any recipes for barbecued computer technician. I hear they taste gamey, but if you leave em hanging for a few weeks out in the shed, they ain’t bad.
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/oregon-militiamen-prepare-for-grand-jury-against-local-officials
That link might be bad, because TPM looks to be down, so try again later.
I done hear tell he’s a hanging computer technician.
He’s from Colorado. Unfortunately, and I’m truly sorry about this, America, the Citizen’s Initiative I got placed on the ballot last time round in Colorado mandating the shooting in the head at will of all right-wing morons in my state just missed being passed.
Morons obviously turned out in droves at the ballot box.
I need to find his address.
Funny thing about federal employees in these here parts and throughout the West, especially those in the Interior Department where I once worked — they are inveterate outdoorsmen and women. Can track and shoot mammals of the four-footed variety at a distance with hunting rifle or bow. Bleed em out, clean and dress em with a single knife.
I remember some of them wearing camo to the office even, the better to circle round and get behind whatever game happen to be hunting THEM on their weekend hunting trips.
I don’t spose it would be too much different with mammals of the two-footed variety, the shootin and the cleanin and the dressin, I mean.
Anyone got any recipes for barbecued computer technician. I hear they taste gamey, but if you leave em hanging for a few weeks out in the shed, they ain’t bad.
Unlike the usual “tastes like chicken,” I believe the closer analogue is actually pork. (I suppose that means it’s not kosher. Or halal.)
Unlike the usual “tastes like chicken,” I believe the closer analogue is actually pork. (I suppose that means it’s not kosher. Or halal.)
Unlike the usual “tastes like chicken,” I believe the closer analogue is actually pork. (I suppose that means it’s not kosher. Or halal.)
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
First he’s going to have to “cleanse” the courtrooms of those flags with gold fringes.
I hear that one of the Bundy-gang got his knickers in a twist because he went to the (Federal Tyranny/Slacker) Post Office to pick up his griftin’s, and found that someone had mailed him a dildo.
Hey, if the Malheur bunch are getting mail, Obama should just send them a bill for rent + damages, and then turn it over to a bill collector.
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
First he’s going to have to “cleanse” the courtrooms of those flags with gold fringes.
I hear that one of the Bundy-gang got his knickers in a twist because he went to the (Federal Tyranny/Slacker) Post Office to pick up his griftin’s, and found that someone had mailed him a dildo.
Hey, if the Malheur bunch are getting mail, Obama should just send them a bill for rent + damages, and then turn it over to a bill collector.
A Superior Court Judge … I mean … lemme see here .. it says “computer technician” — he call himself Lil, but everyone knows him as Nancy —, arrives to put federal employees on trial.
First he’s going to have to “cleanse” the courtrooms of those flags with gold fringes.
I hear that one of the Bundy-gang got his knickers in a twist because he went to the (Federal Tyranny/Slacker) Post Office to pick up his griftin’s, and found that someone had mailed him a dildo.
Hey, if the Malheur bunch are getting mail, Obama should just send them a bill for rent + damages, and then turn it over to a bill collector.
“I believe the closer analogue is actually pork.”
I’ve heard that SPAM is the closest, but I both deny all knowledge and am intrigued that something useful might be made from internet spammers.
“I believe the closer analogue is actually pork.”
I’ve heard that SPAM is the closest, but I both deny all knowledge and am intrigued that something useful might be made from internet spammers.
“I believe the closer analogue is actually pork.”
I’ve heard that SPAM is the closest, but I both deny all knowledge and am intrigued that something useful might be made from internet spammers.
How corrupt Republican filth in Congress were paid off by the very few large meat packers left to sabotage Obama’s attempt to relieve pricing pressures on beef producers and ranchers.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/malheur-militants-are-picking-wrong-beef-feds
For every government agency taken over at gunpoint, there are 50 corporate f*ckers who require being burned to the ground too.
How corrupt Republican filth in Congress were paid off by the very few large meat packers left to sabotage Obama’s attempt to relieve pricing pressures on beef producers and ranchers.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/malheur-militants-are-picking-wrong-beef-feds
For every government agency taken over at gunpoint, there are 50 corporate f*ckers who require being burned to the ground too.
How corrupt Republican filth in Congress were paid off by the very few large meat packers left to sabotage Obama’s attempt to relieve pricing pressures on beef producers and ranchers.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/malheur-militants-are-picking-wrong-beef-feds
For every government agency taken over at gunpoint, there are 50 corporate f*ckers who require being burned to the ground too.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/13/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-10-things-are-getting-weird/
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/13/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-10-things-are-getting-weird/
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/13/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-10-things-are-getting-weird/
The guy in that link is an Iraq war veteran and knows his way around terrorism.
Fascinating, don’t ya think, how the “conservative movement” created the environment for terrorist organizations to flourish in Iraq and now enables and fosters terrorism here domestically.
It’s how they roll. These things don’t just happen.
What are we going to do about it?
The guy in that link is an Iraq war veteran and knows his way around terrorism.
Fascinating, don’t ya think, how the “conservative movement” created the environment for terrorist organizations to flourish in Iraq and now enables and fosters terrorism here domestically.
It’s how they roll. These things don’t just happen.
What are we going to do about it?
The guy in that link is an Iraq war veteran and knows his way around terrorism.
Fascinating, don’t ya think, how the “conservative movement” created the environment for terrorist organizations to flourish in Iraq and now enables and fosters terrorism here domestically.
It’s how they roll. These things don’t just happen.
What are we going to do about it?
“ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS FOR ISIS TO NUKE ISRAELHELL!”
nice company you keep, Mr Bundy,
“ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS FOR ISIS TO NUKE ISRAELHELL!”
nice company you keep, Mr Bundy,
“ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS FOR ISIS TO NUKE ISRAELHELL!”
nice company you keep, Mr Bundy,
They are occupying an office building on a wildlife sanctuary. Their putative goal is to make public land accessible for ranching and maybe logging.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
They are occupying an office building on a wildlife sanctuary. Their putative goal is to make public land accessible for ranching and maybe logging.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
They are occupying an office building on a wildlife sanctuary. Their putative goal is to make public land accessible for ranching and maybe logging.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
Javascript, PHP, MySql and HTML5 – just like everybody else, i’d guess.
Javascript, PHP, MySql and HTML5 – just like everybody else, i’d guess.
Javascript, PHP, MySql and HTML5 – just like everybody else, i’d guess.
Another aspect of western water wars taken up here (courtesy of LG&M).
It is a story of the confluence of public power and private greed. It is antics such as this that motivate populists of all stripes, both left and right.
Another aspect of western water wars taken up here (courtesy of LG&M).
It is a story of the confluence of public power and private greed. It is antics such as this that motivate populists of all stripes, both left and right.
Another aspect of western water wars taken up here (courtesy of LG&M).
It is a story of the confluence of public power and private greed. It is antics such as this that motivate populists of all stripes, both left and right.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
Not to be overlooked, the Class Action Litigation Act, another special interest driven gift to corporate America.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
Not to be overlooked, the Class Action Litigation Act, another special interest driven gift to corporate America.
You might call it the Walmartization of the cattle industry.
Not to be overlooked, the Class Action Litigation Act, another special interest driven gift to corporate America.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
Their own website. Social media PR. All that technology stuff that they, as “real men,” don’t sully their hands (minds) with.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
Their own website. Social media PR. All that technology stuff that they, as “real men,” don’t sully their hands (minds) with.
What the hell do they need a ‘resident computer expert’ for?
Their own website. Social media PR. All that technology stuff that they, as “real men,” don’t sully their hands (minds) with.
I guess my question really is: what the hell do they need their very own bespoke website for?
But I suppose the answers to that are obvious.
I guess my question really is: what the hell do they need their very own bespoke website for?
But I suppose the answers to that are obvious.
I guess my question really is: what the hell do they need their very own bespoke website for?
But I suppose the answers to that are obvious.
Let us meet our overlords:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/meet-bruce-doucette-buddy-s-sovereign-citizen-judge
I guess Judge Judy, Judge Ito, and Judge Reinhold weren’t available.
Let us meet our overlords:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/meet-bruce-doucette-buddy-s-sovereign-citizen-judge
I guess Judge Judy, Judge Ito, and Judge Reinhold weren’t available.
Let us meet our overlords:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/meet-bruce-doucette-buddy-s-sovereign-citizen-judge
I guess Judge Judy, Judge Ito, and Judge Reinhold weren’t available.
The real American people …. us … need to send in Christopher Walken to negotiate the Bundy stand down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGOiqQm9B0
The real American people …. us … need to send in Christopher Walken to negotiate the Bundy stand down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGOiqQm9B0
The real American people …. us … need to send in Christopher Walken to negotiate the Bundy stand down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGOiqQm9B0
Can’t build support without a website in this modern day and age. Even yokels like these have grasped that.
Can’t build support without a website in this modern day and age. Even yokels like these have grasped that.
Can’t build support without a website in this modern day and age. Even yokels like these have grasped that.
Websites can be hacked.
Websites can be hacked.
Websites can be hacked.
They can.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, . . . .
They can.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, . . . .
They can.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, . . . .
it’s like dungeons and dragons, only with chewing tobacco.
it’s like dungeons and dragons, only with chewing tobacco.
it’s like dungeons and dragons, only with chewing tobacco.
This keeps up, there isn’t going to be any of these a*sholes left for the rest of us to shoot:
http://juanitajean.com/give-enough-time-all-this-is-gonna-work-itself-out/
Meanwhile, subhuman pigf*cker Moe Lane lets loose with some high altitude right-wing feces:
http://www.redstate.com/2016/01/13/ted-cruz-duck-dynasty-phil-robertson/
He loves him some gunfire in political commercials.
When Lane claims it’s “duck season”, that could be a fatal mistake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE
This keeps up, there isn’t going to be any of these a*sholes left for the rest of us to shoot:
http://juanitajean.com/give-enough-time-all-this-is-gonna-work-itself-out/
Meanwhile, subhuman pigf*cker Moe Lane lets loose with some high altitude right-wing feces:
http://www.redstate.com/2016/01/13/ted-cruz-duck-dynasty-phil-robertson/
He loves him some gunfire in political commercials.
When Lane claims it’s “duck season”, that could be a fatal mistake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE
This keeps up, there isn’t going to be any of these a*sholes left for the rest of us to shoot:
http://juanitajean.com/give-enough-time-all-this-is-gonna-work-itself-out/
Meanwhile, subhuman pigf*cker Moe Lane lets loose with some high altitude right-wing feces:
http://www.redstate.com/2016/01/13/ted-cruz-duck-dynasty-phil-robertson/
He loves him some gunfire in political commercials.
When Lane claims it’s “duck season”, that could be a fatal mistake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE
I hate it when Republican jerkoffs force me into corniness, but hand me that carbine, Pompey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWpG8xPM10
I hate it when Republican jerkoffs force me into corniness, but hand me that carbine, Pompey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWpG8xPM10
I hate it when Republican jerkoffs force me into corniness, but hand me that carbine, Pompey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWpG8xPM10
The Bundys are not the only pigf&ckers stealing from me:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/new-york-company-claims-trademark-rights-yosemite-national-park
The Bundys are not the only pigf&ckers stealing from me:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/new-york-company-claims-trademark-rights-yosemite-national-park
The Bundys are not the only pigf&ckers stealing from me:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/new-york-company-claims-trademark-rights-yosemite-national-park
“New York company claims trademark rights to Yosemite National Park”.
Who’s gonna break it to this guy?
“New York company claims trademark rights to Yosemite National Park”.
Who’s gonna break it to this guy?
“New York company claims trademark rights to Yosemite National Park”.
Who’s gonna break it to this guy?
Pigf*cking subhuman murderous Republicans, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfP6sYzTNfQ
Pigf*cking subhuman Republican Libertarian vermin, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_z9MEOHGo
These filth, that’s who:
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gop-republican-debate-cleveland-2015/
Pigf*cking subhuman murderous Republicans, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfP6sYzTNfQ
Pigf*cking subhuman Republican Libertarian vermin, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_z9MEOHGo
These filth, that’s who:
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gop-republican-debate-cleveland-2015/
Pigf*cking subhuman murderous Republicans, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfP6sYzTNfQ
Pigf*cking subhuman Republican Libertarian vermin, that’s who:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_z9MEOHGo
These filth, that’s who:
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gop-republican-debate-cleveland-2015/
“A wretched hive of scum and villainy”, that’s who:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2016_01/a_wretched_hive_of_scum_and_vi059300.php
“A wretched hive of scum and villainy”, that’s who:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2016_01/a_wretched_hive_of_scum_and_vi059300.php
“A wretched hive of scum and villainy”, that’s who:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2016_01/a_wretched_hive_of_scum_and_vi059300.php
This would be funny, if humor is what is going to save America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWCH2Nwsss
But to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln in his first speeches as President to the country, someday, after our domestic enemies are dead and buried, we will look back and be able to relax and laugh again.
Someday.
Not soon.
This would be funny, if humor is what is going to save America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWCH2Nwsss
But to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln in his first speeches as President to the country, someday, after our domestic enemies are dead and buried, we will look back and be able to relax and laugh again.
Someday.
Not soon.
This would be funny, if humor is what is going to save America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWCH2Nwsss
But to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln in his first speeches as President to the country, someday, after our domestic enemies are dead and buried, we will look back and be able to relax and laugh again.
Someday.
Not soon.
Cruz, he who somehow knows the limits of Presidential authority, but not of his mouth:
http://abc7ny.com/politics/de-blasio-disgusted-over-cruzs-new-york-values-comment-says-senator-should-apologize/1160363/
Screw the apology. Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn and dare him to state for all to hear that New Yorkers are not Americans and they’re are all gay and abort children. There are any number of neighborhoods in which Cruz and other conservative filth have the impression no guns exist. Go ahead, shoot your mouths off and see how dead a guy can be. He’ll find out real quick in a hail of justified homicide how New Yorkers — those tried and true Americans — unlike many of his fellow pussified Texans who gun unarmed folks down in cold blood and who whine that they want out of America the first chance they get — not that New York conservatives aren’t capable of murdering their own citizens as well — deal with the out-of-town insults.
As far as Trump’s defense of New York. Yeah, tough guy. Thug. But he does have the muscle to have cement overshoes put on any Cruz punk, whatizzat canadian, or you some kind of cuban punk, for the ride on the ferry out to see the Statue of Liberty for one last swim to the bottom before she undergoes demolition the first day in office for any of these murderers:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trump-swam-in-mob-infested-waters-in-early-years-as-an-nyc-developer/2015/10/16/3c75b918-60a3-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html
Christie can come too. Except for his abundant abdominal gas, methinks fat f*cks don’t even need the cement Keds to go straight to the bottom.
Everywhere you look in this hot mess of a radical right anti-American bowel movement all you see are thugs.
I know some decent Texas conservatives. I can count em on the one hand that has two fingers missing. 😉
The self-proclaimed heirs of Reagan.
Cruz, he who somehow knows the limits of Presidential authority, but not of his mouth:
http://abc7ny.com/politics/de-blasio-disgusted-over-cruzs-new-york-values-comment-says-senator-should-apologize/1160363/
Screw the apology. Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn and dare him to state for all to hear that New Yorkers are not Americans and they’re are all gay and abort children. There are any number of neighborhoods in which Cruz and other conservative filth have the impression no guns exist. Go ahead, shoot your mouths off and see how dead a guy can be. He’ll find out real quick in a hail of justified homicide how New Yorkers — those tried and true Americans — unlike many of his fellow pussified Texans who gun unarmed folks down in cold blood and who whine that they want out of America the first chance they get — not that New York conservatives aren’t capable of murdering their own citizens as well — deal with the out-of-town insults.
As far as Trump’s defense of New York. Yeah, tough guy. Thug. But he does have the muscle to have cement overshoes put on any Cruz punk, whatizzat canadian, or you some kind of cuban punk, for the ride on the ferry out to see the Statue of Liberty for one last swim to the bottom before she undergoes demolition the first day in office for any of these murderers:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trump-swam-in-mob-infested-waters-in-early-years-as-an-nyc-developer/2015/10/16/3c75b918-60a3-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html
Christie can come too. Except for his abundant abdominal gas, methinks fat f*cks don’t even need the cement Keds to go straight to the bottom.
Everywhere you look in this hot mess of a radical right anti-American bowel movement all you see are thugs.
I know some decent Texas conservatives. I can count em on the one hand that has two fingers missing. 😉
The self-proclaimed heirs of Reagan.
Cruz, he who somehow knows the limits of Presidential authority, but not of his mouth:
http://abc7ny.com/politics/de-blasio-disgusted-over-cruzs-new-york-values-comment-says-senator-should-apologize/1160363/
Screw the apology. Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn and dare him to state for all to hear that New Yorkers are not Americans and they’re are all gay and abort children. There are any number of neighborhoods in which Cruz and other conservative filth have the impression no guns exist. Go ahead, shoot your mouths off and see how dead a guy can be. He’ll find out real quick in a hail of justified homicide how New Yorkers — those tried and true Americans — unlike many of his fellow pussified Texans who gun unarmed folks down in cold blood and who whine that they want out of America the first chance they get — not that New York conservatives aren’t capable of murdering their own citizens as well — deal with the out-of-town insults.
As far as Trump’s defense of New York. Yeah, tough guy. Thug. But he does have the muscle to have cement overshoes put on any Cruz punk, whatizzat canadian, or you some kind of cuban punk, for the ride on the ferry out to see the Statue of Liberty for one last swim to the bottom before she undergoes demolition the first day in office for any of these murderers:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/trump-swam-in-mob-infested-waters-in-early-years-as-an-nyc-developer/2015/10/16/3c75b918-60a3-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html
Christie can come too. Except for his abundant abdominal gas, methinks fat f*cks don’t even need the cement Keds to go straight to the bottom.
Everywhere you look in this hot mess of a radical right anti-American bowel movement all you see are thugs.
I know some decent Texas conservatives. I can count em on the one hand that has two fingers missing. 😉
The self-proclaimed heirs of Reagan.
Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn
Folks in NYC won’t give a crap. If he registers at all, it’ll be as just another loud wacko.
It’s kind of a form of entertainment, there.
“Ted who…?”
Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn
Folks in NYC won’t give a crap. If he registers at all, it’ll be as just another loud wacko.
It’s kind of a form of entertainment, there.
“Ted who…?”
Invite Cruz up to New York City and give him a bullhorn
Folks in NYC won’t give a crap. If he registers at all, it’ll be as just another loud wacko.
It’s kind of a form of entertainment, there.
“Ted who…?”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bundy-bodyguard-arrested
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
When they say “base”, that’s exactly what Republicans mean.
Thank God he’s not an elitist know-it-all.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bundy-bodyguard-arrested
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
When they say “base”, that’s exactly what Republicans mean.
Thank God he’s not an elitist know-it-all.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bundy-bodyguard-arrested
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
When they say “base”, that’s exactly what Republicans mean.
Thank God he’s not an elitist know-it-all.
I have just about had enough of this election. Already. On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count. New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point. F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots. Why Ted would choose to point that out? Oh wait, northeast corridor candidate, didn’t someone just talk about that?
EVERY thing does NOT deserve the drama. Either side.
This is going to be aa long year.
I have just about had enough of this election. Already. On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count. New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point. F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots. Why Ted would choose to point that out? Oh wait, northeast corridor candidate, didn’t someone just talk about that?
EVERY thing does NOT deserve the drama. Either side.
This is going to be aa long year.
I have just about had enough of this election. Already. On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count. New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point. F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots. Why Ted would choose to point that out? Oh wait, northeast corridor candidate, didn’t someone just talk about that?
EVERY thing does NOT deserve the drama. Either side.
This is going to be aa long year.
Marty: F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots.
What “truth”? Who are the “idiots”?
I enjoy crotchety ranting as much as the next guy, but I’d enjoy it more if I could decipher it.
–TP
Marty: F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots.
What “truth”? Who are the “idiots”?
I enjoy crotchety ranting as much as the next guy, but I’d enjoy it more if I could decipher it.
–TP
Marty: F*ck Trump and Diblasio. If THAT truth hurts you’re both idiots.
What “truth”? Who are the “idiots”?
I enjoy crotchety ranting as much as the next guy, but I’d enjoy it more if I could decipher it.
–TP
“On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count.”
Exactly.
“On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count.”
Exactly.
“On one side I have a bunch of people spewing off crap, post after post, day after day. And on the other side, well the count.”
Exactly.
New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point.
I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.
Wherever the hell that is.
Nobody has a monopoly on ‘American values’. Cruz can kiss my ass.
Trump, too, for that matter, but for different reasons.
They’re all long years, bro.
New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point.
I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.
Wherever the hell that is.
Nobody has a monopoly on ‘American values’. Cruz can kiss my ass.
Trump, too, for that matter, but for different reasons.
They’re all long years, bro.
New York is pretty liberal, I think that was Teds point.
I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.
Wherever the hell that is.
Nobody has a monopoly on ‘American values’. Cruz can kiss my ass.
Trump, too, for that matter, but for different reasons.
They’re all long years, bro.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts. But then, we have to count the coast of the Great Lakes, too. Otherwise, how can we rant against the values of a certain President who is out of Chicago?
I guess the real advantage of “the heartland” is that it’s so delightfully vague that it can mean whatever the listener wants it to.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts. But then, we have to count the coast of the Great Lakes, too. Otherwise, how can we rant against the values of a certain President who is out of Chicago?
I guess the real advantage of “the heartland” is that it’s so delightfully vague that it can mean whatever the listener wants it to.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts. But then, we have to count the coast of the Great Lakes, too. Otherwise, how can we rant against the values of a certain President who is out of Chicago?
I guess the real advantage of “the heartland” is that it’s so delightfully vague that it can mean whatever the listener wants it to.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts.
I don’t know if you’re being facetious, but ‘real American values’ are the values held by Americans.
They are extremely various.
We contain multitudes. That’s who we are. That’s who we’ve always been.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts.
I don’t know if you’re being facetious, but ‘real American values’ are the values held by Americans.
They are extremely various.
We contain multitudes. That’s who we are. That’s who we’ve always been.
Real American values are in the heartland, not the coasts.
I don’t know if you’re being facetious, but ‘real American values’ are the values held by Americans.
They are extremely various.
We contain multitudes. That’s who we are. That’s who we’ve always been.
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
From the cite:
I got nothing.
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
From the cite:
I got nothing.
Not a Marine with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a tattoo artist with a few DUIs on his record.
From the cite:
I got nothing.
“I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.”
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland. Good God did we forget that Massachusetts, NY and California are the bluest places south of Vermont? I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse. He just isn’t polite enough?
“I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.”
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland. Good God did we forget that Massachusetts, NY and California are the bluest places south of Vermont? I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse. He just isn’t polite enough?
“I think the larger point, as it always seems to be when folks go off on ‘coastal elites’, is that real American values are in ‘the heartland’.”
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland. Good God did we forget that Massachusetts, NY and California are the bluest places south of Vermont? I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse. He just isn’t polite enough?
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland.
You’re begging the question, and making my point.
Conservative values tend to live where conservative people are.
Those people and those places have no claim to be the ‘heartland’.
Whose ‘heart’? Not mine.
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland.
You’re begging the question, and making my point.
Conservative values tend to live where conservative people are.
Those people and those places have no claim to be the ‘heartland’.
Whose ‘heart’? Not mine.
No, the point as stated was conservative values tend to live in the heartland.
You’re begging the question, and making my point.
Conservative values tend to live where conservative people are.
Those people and those places have no claim to be the ‘heartland’.
Whose ‘heart’? Not mine.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse.
Is this a joke, or have you been smoking crack?
I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse.
Is this a joke, or have you been smoking crack?
I am not entirely clear why Trump isn’t the candidatee of the left, he does support almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse.
Is this a joke, or have you been smoking crack?
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
I live in NJ, and most of my friends are right-wing gun nuts who think Obama’s the anti-Christ. Maybe part of the problem is that conservatives and liberals aren’t segregated by geography to the extent that the blue-state, red-state paradigm would have you believe.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
I live in NJ, and most of my friends are right-wing gun nuts who think Obama’s the anti-Christ. Maybe part of the problem is that conservatives and liberals aren’t segregated by geography to the extent that the blue-state, red-state paradigm would have you believe.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
I live in NJ, and most of my friends are right-wing gun nuts who think Obama’s the anti-Christ. Maybe part of the problem is that conservatives and liberals aren’t segregated by geography to the extent that the blue-state, red-state paradigm would have you believe.
mental italics in the last one, please
mental italics in the last one, please
mental italics in the last one, please
hsh, Not on crack. Trump is pro choice, he wants to replace Obamacare with universal healthcare, he has never been anti gun control before(so I am not very sure of his actual stance), he was pro gay marriage when that was an issue and he wants to manage the economy. Immigration isn’t really his left wing strong suit but then Obama wasn’t for gay marriage. He talks tough on a few things, hysterically really, but he is a very odd candidate for the right.
hsh, Not on crack. Trump is pro choice, he wants to replace Obamacare with universal healthcare, he has never been anti gun control before(so I am not very sure of his actual stance), he was pro gay marriage when that was an issue and he wants to manage the economy. Immigration isn’t really his left wing strong suit but then Obama wasn’t for gay marriage. He talks tough on a few things, hysterically really, but he is a very odd candidate for the right.
hsh, Not on crack. Trump is pro choice, he wants to replace Obamacare with universal healthcare, he has never been anti gun control before(so I am not very sure of his actual stance), he was pro gay marriage when that was an issue and he wants to manage the economy. Immigration isn’t really his left wing strong suit but then Obama wasn’t for gay marriage. He talks tough on a few things, hysterically really, but he is a very odd candidate for the right.
Let’s be as precise as possible here. Even if you’re right about all those things, does that approach “almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse”? While we’re at it, how many of those things are cultural values at all? (I thought we were supposed to be all PC. What about that?)
Let’s be as precise as possible here. Even if you’re right about all those things, does that approach “almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse”? While we’re at it, how many of those things are cultural values at all? (I thought we were supposed to be all PC. What about that?)
Let’s be as precise as possible here. Even if you’re right about all those things, does that approach “almost all the cultural values that progressives espouse”? While we’re at it, how many of those things are cultural values at all? (I thought we were supposed to be all PC. What about that?)
no not really. but he is an odd duck
no not really. but he is an odd duck
no not really. but he is an odd duck
No argument there.
No argument there.
No argument there.
Marty has it right: Trump is indeed the “odd duck”. In the flock of loons.
Marty has it right: Trump is indeed the “odd duck”. In the flock of loons.
Marty has it right: Trump is indeed the “odd duck”. In the flock of loons.
So, they’ve nabbed one of the militants today. He and an unidentified another drove two government vehicles pilfered & re-branded from the occupied refuge into the town of Burns:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/protester_arrested_in_burns_dr.html
Into the Safeway in the middle of town!
The arrest is good news. Though otherwise I must admit my complete bafflement at the way both Federal and our local authorities are approaching this little insurrection.
So, they’ve nabbed one of the militants today. He and an unidentified another drove two government vehicles pilfered & re-branded from the occupied refuge into the town of Burns:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/protester_arrested_in_burns_dr.html
Into the Safeway in the middle of town!
The arrest is good news. Though otherwise I must admit my complete bafflement at the way both Federal and our local authorities are approaching this little insurrection.
So, they’ve nabbed one of the militants today. He and an unidentified another drove two government vehicles pilfered & re-branded from the occupied refuge into the town of Burns:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/protester_arrested_in_burns_dr.html
Into the Safeway in the middle of town!
The arrest is good news. Though otherwise I must admit my complete bafflement at the way both Federal and our local authorities are approaching this little insurrection.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
Call it what it is. It’s not like it’s all one thing.
Conservative people have conservative values.
Liberal people have liberal values.
Rural people have rural values.
Urban people have urban values.
By and large, natch.
Language like ‘heartland’ isn’t about geography. Language like ‘middle’ is about geography.
Language like ‘heartland’ is about authenticity and genuineness.
Folks in the middle of the country are no more authentically American than anybody else. Lather rinse and repeat for any other place in the US.
We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.
Ted Cruz can kiss my ass.
Regarding Trump, the reason I figure he’s running as a (R) is because it’s easier pickings.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
Call it what it is. It’s not like it’s all one thing.
Conservative people have conservative values.
Liberal people have liberal values.
Rural people have rural values.
Urban people have urban values.
By and large, natch.
Language like ‘heartland’ isn’t about geography. Language like ‘middle’ is about geography.
Language like ‘heartland’ is about authenticity and genuineness.
Folks in the middle of the country are no more authentically American than anybody else. Lather rinse and repeat for any other place in the US.
We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.
Ted Cruz can kiss my ass.
Regarding Trump, the reason I figure he’s running as a (R) is because it’s easier pickings.
what do you want to call it? The center? Flyover states? Middle of the country? Not the coasts? Its a geographic designation, I don’t understand the problem.
Call it what it is. It’s not like it’s all one thing.
Conservative people have conservative values.
Liberal people have liberal values.
Rural people have rural values.
Urban people have urban values.
By and large, natch.
Language like ‘heartland’ isn’t about geography. Language like ‘middle’ is about geography.
Language like ‘heartland’ is about authenticity and genuineness.
Folks in the middle of the country are no more authentically American than anybody else. Lather rinse and repeat for any other place in the US.
We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.
Ted Cruz can kiss my ass.
Regarding Trump, the reason I figure he’s running as a (R) is because it’s easier pickings.
Here is the geographic center of the US.
The thing you don’t see in the picture is people. Nobody lives there.
When people use language like ‘heartland’ they aren’t talking about geography.
Here is the geographic center of the US.
The thing you don’t see in the picture is people. Nobody lives there.
When people use language like ‘heartland’ they aren’t talking about geography.
Here is the geographic center of the US.
The thing you don’t see in the picture is people. Nobody lives there.
When people use language like ‘heartland’ they aren’t talking about geography.
Odd duck, you say. Trump, fuck Trump, no kidding. He’s elected, there will violence in America like no one has ever f*cking imagined.
But then, Marty, you defend this duck:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/videos/a41200/duck-dynasty-ted-cruz/
You and your party are a f*cking disgrace.
There has never been a more dangerous, murderous set of clowns than your people in American history.
While Cruz is kissing Russell’s ass, leave some for me.
At gunpoint.
Odd duck, you say. Trump, fuck Trump, no kidding. He’s elected, there will violence in America like no one has ever f*cking imagined.
But then, Marty, you defend this duck:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/videos/a41200/duck-dynasty-ted-cruz/
You and your party are a f*cking disgrace.
There has never been a more dangerous, murderous set of clowns than your people in American history.
While Cruz is kissing Russell’s ass, leave some for me.
At gunpoint.
Odd duck, you say. Trump, fuck Trump, no kidding. He’s elected, there will violence in America like no one has ever f*cking imagined.
But then, Marty, you defend this duck:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/videos/a41200/duck-dynasty-ted-cruz/
You and your party are a f*cking disgrace.
There has never been a more dangerous, murderous set of clowns than your people in American history.
While Cruz is kissing Russell’s ass, leave some for me.
At gunpoint.
Been reading a bit about the ‘New York Values’ kerfluffle, but no one I’ve seen has observed that Al Queda, when they wanted to make a statement, attacked New York. So it would see that one thing that Cruz and Terrorists share is a hatred of New York values.
Been reading a bit about the ‘New York Values’ kerfluffle, but no one I’ve seen has observed that Al Queda, when they wanted to make a statement, attacked New York. So it would see that one thing that Cruz and Terrorists share is a hatred of New York values.
Been reading a bit about the ‘New York Values’ kerfluffle, but no one I’ve seen has observed that Al Queda, when they wanted to make a statement, attacked New York. So it would see that one thing that Cruz and Terrorists share is a hatred of New York values.
Yeah, al Qaeda wants a Caliphate, Texas wants an Onanfellate.
Think about it.
In what three countries can you order hummus in a restaurant via gunpoint, because of Republican/ISIS/al Qaeda First Amendment “rights”?
Syria, Iraq, and Texas.
Yeah, al Qaeda wants a Caliphate, Texas wants an Onanfellate.
Think about it.
In what three countries can you order hummus in a restaurant via gunpoint, because of Republican/ISIS/al Qaeda First Amendment “rights”?
Syria, Iraq, and Texas.
Yeah, al Qaeda wants a Caliphate, Texas wants an Onanfellate.
Think about it.
In what three countries can you order hummus in a restaurant via gunpoint, because of Republican/ISIS/al Qaeda First Amendment “rights”?
Syria, Iraq, and Texas.
Marty definitely has a point. If we assume that Trump’s positions prior to the primaries represent his real beliefs, then he definitely is nothing like a conservative. (Personally, I think the only thing Trump really believes in is Trump.) He knows what to say to motivate angry voters on the right. But does he believe it? I beg leave to doubt it.
P.S. Yes, Russell I was being facetious. Few things irritate me more than someone trying to tell me what “real Americans” do or do not believe.
Marty definitely has a point. If we assume that Trump’s positions prior to the primaries represent his real beliefs, then he definitely is nothing like a conservative. (Personally, I think the only thing Trump really believes in is Trump.) He knows what to say to motivate angry voters on the right. But does he believe it? I beg leave to doubt it.
P.S. Yes, Russell I was being facetious. Few things irritate me more than someone trying to tell me what “real Americans” do or do not believe.
Marty definitely has a point. If we assume that Trump’s positions prior to the primaries represent his real beliefs, then he definitely is nothing like a conservative. (Personally, I think the only thing Trump really believes in is Trump.) He knows what to say to motivate angry voters on the right. But does he believe it? I beg leave to doubt it.
P.S. Yes, Russell I was being facetious. Few things irritate me more than someone trying to tell me what “real Americans” do or do not believe.
Second Amendment rights.
What’s the difference, soon the Supreme Court will rule that bullets are speech.
And guns are people.
Second Amendment rights.
What’s the difference, soon the Supreme Court will rule that bullets are speech.
And guns are people.
Second Amendment rights.
What’s the difference, soon the Supreme Court will rule that bullets are speech.
And guns are people.
This probably says it better than I did:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/2643/no-cruzs-new-york-values-slam-wont-hurt-him-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=011216-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
This probably says it better than I did:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/2643/no-cruzs-new-york-values-slam-wont-hurt-him-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=011216-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
This probably says it better than I did:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/2643/no-cruzs-new-york-values-slam-wont-hurt-him-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=011216-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
“We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.”
BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs. Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways. Because people in the Northeast also have no manners, just look at Trump. So, take it, own it, don’t whine when someone defends their values. Yess there are a few conservatives in the Northeaast, we just tend to keep our mouths shut for fear of retribution outside our closest friends. NJ, I don’t know.
“We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.”
BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs. Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways. Because people in the Northeast also have no manners, just look at Trump. So, take it, own it, don’t whine when someone defends their values. Yess there are a few conservatives in the Northeaast, we just tend to keep our mouths shut for fear of retribution outside our closest friends. NJ, I don’t know.
“We’re all here, we all have our point of view, nobody’s is more legitimate than anybody else’s. And nobody’s is more American than anybody else’s.”
BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs. Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways. Because people in the Northeast also have no manners, just look at Trump. So, take it, own it, don’t whine when someone defends their values. Yess there are a few conservatives in the Northeaast, we just tend to keep our mouths shut for fear of retribution outside our closest friends. NJ, I don’t know.
Marty, open your eyes. How is what you just described even vaguely different than incessant conservative deridement of coastal/metropolitan liberals as out-of-touch, spiteful, inauthentic betrayers of the Real America? What on earth makes you think that Midwestern, southern, Texan, or Western conservatives as a rule give the slightest damn about (let alone deem legitimate) the detested POV of decadant, naive, hateful coastal or urban liberals except by accident? Seriously? Being constantly told your POV is wrong every day in crude and insulting terms only happens to conservatives? Really? You live in a region where your POV is in the minority, and you feel you need to pipe down to avoid being ostracized; lemme assure you that being a leftist in the rural Midwest – even in the eastern marches of it – feels not the least bit different.
Marty, open your eyes. How is what you just described even vaguely different than incessant conservative deridement of coastal/metropolitan liberals as out-of-touch, spiteful, inauthentic betrayers of the Real America? What on earth makes you think that Midwestern, southern, Texan, or Western conservatives as a rule give the slightest damn about (let alone deem legitimate) the detested POV of decadant, naive, hateful coastal or urban liberals except by accident? Seriously? Being constantly told your POV is wrong every day in crude and insulting terms only happens to conservatives? Really? You live in a region where your POV is in the minority, and you feel you need to pipe down to avoid being ostracized; lemme assure you that being a leftist in the rural Midwest – even in the eastern marches of it – feels not the least bit different.
Marty, open your eyes. How is what you just described even vaguely different than incessant conservative deridement of coastal/metropolitan liberals as out-of-touch, spiteful, inauthentic betrayers of the Real America? What on earth makes you think that Midwestern, southern, Texan, or Western conservatives as a rule give the slightest damn about (let alone deem legitimate) the detested POV of decadant, naive, hateful coastal or urban liberals except by accident? Seriously? Being constantly told your POV is wrong every day in crude and insulting terms only happens to conservatives? Really? You live in a region where your POV is in the minority, and you feel you need to pipe down to avoid being ostracized; lemme assure you that being a leftist in the rural Midwest – even in the eastern marches of it – feels not the least bit different.
BS.
I think you miss my point.
I’m not saying that we all embrace and celebrate each other’s point of view. I’m saying that no-one’s point of view has a claim to being more or less legitimate, or more or less American, than anyone else’s.
We all have our point of view, and we all have our own interests. We all get to advocate for our point of view. In general, nobody completely gets their way. C’est la vie.
Cruz wasn’t ‘defending’ his own values, he was calling Trump’s conservative bona fides into question by noting that he was from NY.
And you’re right, I have no idea why Trump is running as a (R), or even why he’s running at all. I have no idea why he’s the front-runner among the (R)’s, either, other than the fact that he apparently embodies the id of all that resentment you talk about, and being from NY, he is uniquely willing to state it plainly and bluntly.
It’s those NY values that are putting him out front, apparently.
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country. We are apparently also prone to using bad words more often relative to other places. I can see how that would feel harsh if you weren’t used to it. It is what it is.
Everything you say about the experience of being a conservative in the Northeast is, precisely, true about the experience of being a liberal coastal elitist like me when I go other places. I just keep my mouth shut and go on about my business.
FWIW, I was born in Queens and grew up mostly on Long Island, in a family that included a grandfather who was, frankly, the model for Archie Bunker, an uncle who was the chapter head of the local John Birch Society, and an extended family that was, and is, generally conservative, socially and otherwise. When I was really little, they had a summer place out in Yaphank, and I just don’t ask questions about it. Go google it if you need to decode the reference.
The liberal (D) was my old man, born and raised in Screven County GA. He was generally cool about everything except the blacks, he never quite got past his upbringing on that issue.
I have no idea how I ended up where I am, socially and politically. I didn’t get it from my family.
There are a hell of a lot of conservatives in NY, and in the Northeast generally. They don’t freak out about gays as much as conservatives in other parts of the country, and they don’t wear Jesus on their sleeve. But they are by God conservative, you can trust me on that.
BS.
I think you miss my point.
I’m not saying that we all embrace and celebrate each other’s point of view. I’m saying that no-one’s point of view has a claim to being more or less legitimate, or more or less American, than anyone else’s.
We all have our point of view, and we all have our own interests. We all get to advocate for our point of view. In general, nobody completely gets their way. C’est la vie.
Cruz wasn’t ‘defending’ his own values, he was calling Trump’s conservative bona fides into question by noting that he was from NY.
And you’re right, I have no idea why Trump is running as a (R), or even why he’s running at all. I have no idea why he’s the front-runner among the (R)’s, either, other than the fact that he apparently embodies the id of all that resentment you talk about, and being from NY, he is uniquely willing to state it plainly and bluntly.
It’s those NY values that are putting him out front, apparently.
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country. We are apparently also prone to using bad words more often relative to other places. I can see how that would feel harsh if you weren’t used to it. It is what it is.
Everything you say about the experience of being a conservative in the Northeast is, precisely, true about the experience of being a liberal coastal elitist like me when I go other places. I just keep my mouth shut and go on about my business.
FWIW, I was born in Queens and grew up mostly on Long Island, in a family that included a grandfather who was, frankly, the model for Archie Bunker, an uncle who was the chapter head of the local John Birch Society, and an extended family that was, and is, generally conservative, socially and otherwise. When I was really little, they had a summer place out in Yaphank, and I just don’t ask questions about it. Go google it if you need to decode the reference.
The liberal (D) was my old man, born and raised in Screven County GA. He was generally cool about everything except the blacks, he never quite got past his upbringing on that issue.
I have no idea how I ended up where I am, socially and politically. I didn’t get it from my family.
There are a hell of a lot of conservatives in NY, and in the Northeast generally. They don’t freak out about gays as much as conservatives in other parts of the country, and they don’t wear Jesus on their sleeve. But they are by God conservative, you can trust me on that.
BS.
I think you miss my point.
I’m not saying that we all embrace and celebrate each other’s point of view. I’m saying that no-one’s point of view has a claim to being more or less legitimate, or more or less American, than anyone else’s.
We all have our point of view, and we all have our own interests. We all get to advocate for our point of view. In general, nobody completely gets their way. C’est la vie.
Cruz wasn’t ‘defending’ his own values, he was calling Trump’s conservative bona fides into question by noting that he was from NY.
And you’re right, I have no idea why Trump is running as a (R), or even why he’s running at all. I have no idea why he’s the front-runner among the (R)’s, either, other than the fact that he apparently embodies the id of all that resentment you talk about, and being from NY, he is uniquely willing to state it plainly and bluntly.
It’s those NY values that are putting him out front, apparently.
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country. We are apparently also prone to using bad words more often relative to other places. I can see how that would feel harsh if you weren’t used to it. It is what it is.
Everything you say about the experience of being a conservative in the Northeast is, precisely, true about the experience of being a liberal coastal elitist like me when I go other places. I just keep my mouth shut and go on about my business.
FWIW, I was born in Queens and grew up mostly on Long Island, in a family that included a grandfather who was, frankly, the model for Archie Bunker, an uncle who was the chapter head of the local John Birch Society, and an extended family that was, and is, generally conservative, socially and otherwise. When I was really little, they had a summer place out in Yaphank, and I just don’t ask questions about it. Go google it if you need to decode the reference.
The liberal (D) was my old man, born and raised in Screven County GA. He was generally cool about everything except the blacks, he never quite got past his upbringing on that issue.
I have no idea how I ended up where I am, socially and politically. I didn’t get it from my family.
There are a hell of a lot of conservatives in NY, and in the Northeast generally. They don’t freak out about gays as much as conservatives in other parts of the country, and they don’t wear Jesus on their sleeve. But they are by God conservative, you can trust me on that.
Ben Shapiro?
Ben Shapiro said it better than you did? No kidding.
Is there an award in your universe for finishing a distant second to a surly-mouthed little Breitbart twat (in the same sense that Ann Coulter is a dick, so spare me the shock).
Besides, if Trump is the candidate next November, Shapiro will lick his balls, because here’s the deal, Trump’s New York origins and Cruz’s Texas origins are not their defining characteristics.
“Asshole” is not a geographic location.
“Murderous scumbag” is not a post office box number.
“Armed pigf*cking Republican” respects no state boundaries, as the Bundys prove every day.
Racist segregationist New Yorker William F. Buckley, who Trump ladled praise on, believed Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, and Nebraska and all points South, North, West, and East had a legitimate point of view and it was no accident or coincidence.
It was ruinous, if it was anything.
Anyway, nothing personal, Marty. And you didn’t finish second behind Shapiro. And Shapiro didn’t come in first.
You’re way down in the standings, to your credit. The Republican Party has highly paid professionals to handle the insults and to run for office and make the insults stick.
Trump and Cruz will kiss and make up next November and unite behind whomever candidate is the most insulting to America as a whole.
In fact, they will meet and pool their insults toward every group they deem unAmerican in America excepting one … them .. and call it the Republican Party platform.
As for me, please don’t generalize from the particular about Coloradans on my account.
I’m an outlier among decent people.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
He’s a corpse.
Ben Shapiro?
Ben Shapiro said it better than you did? No kidding.
Is there an award in your universe for finishing a distant second to a surly-mouthed little Breitbart twat (in the same sense that Ann Coulter is a dick, so spare me the shock).
Besides, if Trump is the candidate next November, Shapiro will lick his balls, because here’s the deal, Trump’s New York origins and Cruz’s Texas origins are not their defining characteristics.
“Asshole” is not a geographic location.
“Murderous scumbag” is not a post office box number.
“Armed pigf*cking Republican” respects no state boundaries, as the Bundys prove every day.
Racist segregationist New Yorker William F. Buckley, who Trump ladled praise on, believed Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, and Nebraska and all points South, North, West, and East had a legitimate point of view and it was no accident or coincidence.
It was ruinous, if it was anything.
Anyway, nothing personal, Marty. And you didn’t finish second behind Shapiro. And Shapiro didn’t come in first.
You’re way down in the standings, to your credit. The Republican Party has highly paid professionals to handle the insults and to run for office and make the insults stick.
Trump and Cruz will kiss and make up next November and unite behind whomever candidate is the most insulting to America as a whole.
In fact, they will meet and pool their insults toward every group they deem unAmerican in America excepting one … them .. and call it the Republican Party platform.
As for me, please don’t generalize from the particular about Coloradans on my account.
I’m an outlier among decent people.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
He’s a corpse.
Ben Shapiro?
Ben Shapiro said it better than you did? No kidding.
Is there an award in your universe for finishing a distant second to a surly-mouthed little Breitbart twat (in the same sense that Ann Coulter is a dick, so spare me the shock).
Besides, if Trump is the candidate next November, Shapiro will lick his balls, because here’s the deal, Trump’s New York origins and Cruz’s Texas origins are not their defining characteristics.
“Asshole” is not a geographic location.
“Murderous scumbag” is not a post office box number.
“Armed pigf*cking Republican” respects no state boundaries, as the Bundys prove every day.
Racist segregationist New Yorker William F. Buckley, who Trump ladled praise on, believed Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, and Nebraska and all points South, North, West, and East had a legitimate point of view and it was no accident or coincidence.
It was ruinous, if it was anything.
Anyway, nothing personal, Marty. And you didn’t finish second behind Shapiro. And Shapiro didn’t come in first.
You’re way down in the standings, to your credit. The Republican Party has highly paid professionals to handle the insults and to run for office and make the insults stick.
Trump and Cruz will kiss and make up next November and unite behind whomever candidate is the most insulting to America as a whole.
In fact, they will meet and pool their insults toward every group they deem unAmerican in America excepting one … them .. and call it the Republican Party platform.
As for me, please don’t generalize from the particular about Coloradans on my account.
I’m an outlier among decent people.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
He’s a corpse.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
Seriously.
If you need to take over the bird watching station, have at it, I guess.
Leave the computers and vehicles the hell alone. They aren’t yours.
And bring your own snacks.
Why do liberal coastal elitists point and laugh at people like the Malheur crew? Because they are, really are, clowns.
I have no problem with folks who live there and who feel like they need some kind of relief from the BLM.
Their interests are not being well served by the ‘militia’ dilettantes. I suspect they are aware of that. I hope they are.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
Seriously.
If you need to take over the bird watching station, have at it, I guess.
Leave the computers and vehicles the hell alone. They aren’t yours.
And bring your own snacks.
Why do liberal coastal elitists point and laugh at people like the Malheur crew? Because they are, really are, clowns.
I have no problem with folks who live there and who feel like they need some kind of relief from the BLM.
Their interests are not being well served by the ‘militia’ dilettantes. I suspect they are aware of that. I hope they are.
Except for that computer technician up in the Malfeur rifling through personnel files.
Seriously.
If you need to take over the bird watching station, have at it, I guess.
Leave the computers and vehicles the hell alone. They aren’t yours.
And bring your own snacks.
Why do liberal coastal elitists point and laugh at people like the Malheur crew? Because they are, really are, clowns.
I have no problem with folks who live there and who feel like they need some kind of relief from the BLM.
Their interests are not being well served by the ‘militia’ dilettantes. I suspect they are aware of that. I hope they are.
Let me add that William F. Buckley was an oddly open-minded big tent Republican.
He welcomed with open arms every racist white Democratic Party politician south of the Mason-Dixon into his intellectual elitist circle jerk.
I was an inveterate “Firing Line” fan.
There was something mesmerizing about the gentleman, with his reptilian tongue darting and his eyes widening to their limit, as he paused to find the precise $50 vocabulary synonyms for “nigger”, “fag”, “queer”, “dirty hippie”, “Commie liberal”, so his sponsors didn’t cut and run.
I am sorry he didn’t pop Gore Vidal, or was it Mailer, on the nose that time, because there is nothing I like more than watching two snots roll around on the floor with their suit jackets still buttoned pulling their punches.
Let me add that William F. Buckley was an oddly open-minded big tent Republican.
He welcomed with open arms every racist white Democratic Party politician south of the Mason-Dixon into his intellectual elitist circle jerk.
I was an inveterate “Firing Line” fan.
There was something mesmerizing about the gentleman, with his reptilian tongue darting and his eyes widening to their limit, as he paused to find the precise $50 vocabulary synonyms for “nigger”, “fag”, “queer”, “dirty hippie”, “Commie liberal”, so his sponsors didn’t cut and run.
I am sorry he didn’t pop Gore Vidal, or was it Mailer, on the nose that time, because there is nothing I like more than watching two snots roll around on the floor with their suit jackets still buttoned pulling their punches.
Let me add that William F. Buckley was an oddly open-minded big tent Republican.
He welcomed with open arms every racist white Democratic Party politician south of the Mason-Dixon into his intellectual elitist circle jerk.
I was an inveterate “Firing Line” fan.
There was something mesmerizing about the gentleman, with his reptilian tongue darting and his eyes widening to their limit, as he paused to find the precise $50 vocabulary synonyms for “nigger”, “fag”, “queer”, “dirty hippie”, “Commie liberal”, so his sponsors didn’t cut and run.
I am sorry he didn’t pop Gore Vidal, or was it Mailer, on the nose that time, because there is nothing I like more than watching two snots roll around on the floor with their suit jackets still buttoned pulling their punches.
Buckley also threw Ayn Rand out of the Republican Party, for which I’m eternally grateful.
That she has returned in force and now thrown HIM out of the party is both delicious and tragic.
Buckley also threw Ayn Rand out of the Republican Party, for which I’m eternally grateful.
That she has returned in force and now thrown HIM out of the party is both delicious and tragic.
Buckley also threw Ayn Rand out of the Republican Party, for which I’m eternally grateful.
That she has returned in force and now thrown HIM out of the party is both delicious and tragic.
“BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.”
There is no person on the right-wing side of the political spectrum that can refrain from over-generalized insults to a large swathes of the american public.
“BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.”
There is no person on the right-wing side of the political spectrum that can refrain from over-generalized insults to a large swathes of the american public.
“BS. There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.”
There is no person on the right-wing side of the political spectrum that can refrain from over-generalized insults to a large swathes of the american public.
In the spirit of giving Texas a break, this:
http://juanitajean.com/reason-839-why-i-love-texas/
.. and more substantially, this praise for Texas and Rick Perry from a New Yorker article regarding criminal justice reform in the area of police lineups:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/18/recognition-annals-of-justice-paul-kix
I don’t know what’s come over me.
In the spirit of giving Texas a break, this:
http://juanitajean.com/reason-839-why-i-love-texas/
.. and more substantially, this praise for Texas and Rick Perry from a New Yorker article regarding criminal justice reform in the area of police lineups:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/18/recognition-annals-of-justice-paul-kix
I don’t know what’s come over me.
In the spirit of giving Texas a break, this:
http://juanitajean.com/reason-839-why-i-love-texas/
.. and more substantially, this praise for Texas and Rick Perry from a New Yorker article regarding criminal justice reform in the area of police lineups:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/18/recognition-annals-of-justice-paul-kix
I don’t know what’s come over me.
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization. I would say that people in New York City tend to be more assertive (to put it delicately) than those elsewhere** — including elsewhere in the Northeast. But that’s about as far as I would be willing to go.
** Although whether they are actually less assertive than Texans might be debatable. 😉
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization. I would say that people in New York City tend to be more assertive (to put it delicately) than those elsewhere** — including elsewhere in the Northeast. But that’s about as far as I would be willing to go.
** Although whether they are actually less assertive than Texans might be debatable. 😉
It’s true, people in the Northeast tend to be more assertive than folks in other parts of the country.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization. I would say that people in New York City tend to be more assertive (to put it delicately) than those elsewhere** — including elsewhere in the Northeast. But that’s about as far as I would be willing to go.
** Although whether they are actually less assertive than Texans might be debatable. 😉
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization.
You may be right wj.
I always figured NY’ers were assertive in general because of sheer population density. You have to be assertive just to cross the street in NY, during weekday business hours at least.
I’ve been out of the NYC metro area for 35 years now, you couldn’t pay me to go back.
If you get out of the big cities in New England (which is to say, anywhere north of CT, excluding Boston metro), folks are fairly chill.
Not necessarily friendly in the sorts of outgoing ways that are recognized as ‘being friendly’ in other parts of the country, but not in your face, either.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization.
You may be right wj.
I always figured NY’ers were assertive in general because of sheer population density. You have to be assertive just to cross the street in NY, during weekday business hours at least.
I’ve been out of the NYC metro area for 35 years now, you couldn’t pay me to go back.
If you get out of the big cities in New England (which is to say, anywhere north of CT, excluding Boston metro), folks are fairly chill.
Not necessarily friendly in the sorts of outgoing ways that are recognized as ‘being friendly’ in other parts of the country, but not in your face, either.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, that is a serious over-generalization.
You may be right wj.
I always figured NY’ers were assertive in general because of sheer population density. You have to be assertive just to cross the street in NY, during weekday business hours at least.
I’ve been out of the NYC metro area for 35 years now, you couldn’t pay me to go back.
If you get out of the big cities in New England (which is to say, anywhere north of CT, excluding Boston metro), folks are fairly chill.
Not necessarily friendly in the sorts of outgoing ways that are recognized as ‘being friendly’ in other parts of the country, but not in your face, either.
Well, to be fair, when anyone outside the Northeast says “the Northeast corridor” what they are generally basing their opinion on is NYC. Because, in the media, that is what they almost exclusively see. (Rizzoli and Isles being the only exception that leaps to mind.)
Just like when people talk about “the coasts” what they mean is NYC and LA, Philadelphia and SF . . . plus DC, of course. Even Seattle doesn’t really occur to them.
Well, to be fair, when anyone outside the Northeast says “the Northeast corridor” what they are generally basing their opinion on is NYC. Because, in the media, that is what they almost exclusively see. (Rizzoli and Isles being the only exception that leaps to mind.)
Just like when people talk about “the coasts” what they mean is NYC and LA, Philadelphia and SF . . . plus DC, of course. Even Seattle doesn’t really occur to them.
Well, to be fair, when anyone outside the Northeast says “the Northeast corridor” what they are generally basing their opinion on is NYC. Because, in the media, that is what they almost exclusively see. (Rizzoli and Isles being the only exception that leaps to mind.)
Just like when people talk about “the coasts” what they mean is NYC and LA, Philadelphia and SF . . . plus DC, of course. Even Seattle doesn’t really occur to them.
Hey, *I* have no problem with people calling the central part of the US “the Heartland”.
As long as they’re honest about it, and call the pacific coast + Hawai’i “the Good part”.
Hey, *I* have no problem with people calling the central part of the US “the Heartland”.
As long as they’re honest about it, and call the pacific coast + Hawai’i “the Good part”.
Hey, *I* have no problem with people calling the central part of the US “the Heartland”.
As long as they’re honest about it, and call the pacific coast + Hawai’i “the Good part”.
The difference between Heartlanders and normal people is that Heartlanders feel hurt when (they think) normal people look down upon them, while the reverse is not true.
As others have pointed out, The Heartland is a state of mind, not a place. Citizenship in The Heartland is not determined by blood or soil, and its naturalization requirements are about as loose as those of born-again Christianity: you’re born again if you (say you) accept Jesus and renounce Satan; you’re a Heartlander if you profess (not necessarily live by) Heartland “values”. Cf Ted Cruz.
One Heartland value is evidently chutzpah — the smug assurance that The Heartland is the Real America. Ted Cruz forgot that He, Trump practically invented chutzpah.
–TP
The difference between Heartlanders and normal people is that Heartlanders feel hurt when (they think) normal people look down upon them, while the reverse is not true.
As others have pointed out, The Heartland is a state of mind, not a place. Citizenship in The Heartland is not determined by blood or soil, and its naturalization requirements are about as loose as those of born-again Christianity: you’re born again if you (say you) accept Jesus and renounce Satan; you’re a Heartlander if you profess (not necessarily live by) Heartland “values”. Cf Ted Cruz.
One Heartland value is evidently chutzpah — the smug assurance that The Heartland is the Real America. Ted Cruz forgot that He, Trump practically invented chutzpah.
–TP
The difference between Heartlanders and normal people is that Heartlanders feel hurt when (they think) normal people look down upon them, while the reverse is not true.
As others have pointed out, The Heartland is a state of mind, not a place. Citizenship in The Heartland is not determined by blood or soil, and its naturalization requirements are about as loose as those of born-again Christianity: you’re born again if you (say you) accept Jesus and renounce Satan; you’re a Heartlander if you profess (not necessarily live by) Heartland “values”. Cf Ted Cruz.
One Heartland value is evidently chutzpah — the smug assurance that The Heartland is the Real America. Ted Cruz forgot that He, Trump practically invented chutzpah.
–TP
Although one has to wonder whether those in the Heartland would accept a label like “chutzpah”. Which, after all, was an import brought into English by immigrants. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a “pure” English word which fits quite so well….
Although one has to wonder whether those in the Heartland would accept a label like “chutzpah”. Which, after all, was an import brought into English by immigrants. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a “pure” English word which fits quite so well….
Although one has to wonder whether those in the Heartland would accept a label like “chutzpah”. Which, after all, was an import brought into English by immigrants. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a “pure” English word which fits quite so well….
The biggest loud-mouths I know, in person and on social media, about politics are my conservative friends. They go on about how ridiculous and stupid and mush-headed liberals are, incessantly. I just brush it off. I don’t know why you’re so friggin’ sensitive, Marty. It’s almost PC.
Yeah, conservative PsOV are so suppressed and secretive. (It’s like how Christians have to huddle in basements to celebrate Christmas and you can’t find a Christmas tree or Santa Claus to save your life, and no one can say “Merry Christmas” without immediate and harsh retribution.)
Give me a f*cking break.
The biggest loud-mouths I know, in person and on social media, about politics are my conservative friends. They go on about how ridiculous and stupid and mush-headed liberals are, incessantly. I just brush it off. I don’t know why you’re so friggin’ sensitive, Marty. It’s almost PC.
Yeah, conservative PsOV are so suppressed and secretive. (It’s like how Christians have to huddle in basements to celebrate Christmas and you can’t find a Christmas tree or Santa Claus to save your life, and no one can say “Merry Christmas” without immediate and harsh retribution.)
Give me a f*cking break.
The biggest loud-mouths I know, in person and on social media, about politics are my conservative friends. They go on about how ridiculous and stupid and mush-headed liberals are, incessantly. I just brush it off. I don’t know why you’re so friggin’ sensitive, Marty. It’s almost PC.
Yeah, conservative PsOV are so suppressed and secretive. (It’s like how Christians have to huddle in basements to celebrate Christmas and you can’t find a Christmas tree or Santa Claus to save your life, and no one can say “Merry Christmas” without immediate and harsh retribution.)
Give me a f*cking break.
@hairshirthedonist — thanks, you gave me my laugh of the week.
@hairshirthedonist — thanks, you gave me my laugh of the week.
@hairshirthedonist — thanks, you gave me my laugh of the week.
HSH, if someone is determined to see himself as a victim, him can succeed. Afer all, if he isn’t being victimized, it’s hard to understand why everybody else in the world (or at least the country) isn’t behaving the way he expects people to behave.
It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy (although it probably is). But it’s still horrible that we don’t have 100% of the population embracing his culture. Certainly it used to be that way**….
** For example, all those Jewish folks in Hollywood knew to make films, and write songs, about Christmas. Who ever saw a film celebrating any other religious festival???
HSH, if someone is determined to see himself as a victim, him can succeed. Afer all, if he isn’t being victimized, it’s hard to understand why everybody else in the world (or at least the country) isn’t behaving the way he expects people to behave.
It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy (although it probably is). But it’s still horrible that we don’t have 100% of the population embracing his culture. Certainly it used to be that way**….
** For example, all those Jewish folks in Hollywood knew to make films, and write songs, about Christmas. Who ever saw a film celebrating any other religious festival???
HSH, if someone is determined to see himself as a victim, him can succeed. Afer all, if he isn’t being victimized, it’s hard to understand why everybody else in the world (or at least the country) isn’t behaving the way he expects people to behave.
It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy (although it probably is). But it’s still horrible that we don’t have 100% of the population embracing his culture. Certainly it used to be that way**….
** For example, all those Jewish folks in Hollywood knew to make films, and write songs, about Christmas. Who ever saw a film celebrating any other religious festival???
Funny you should mention that, wj. I remember reading the column that this article refers to in my local paper when it was first published. Not that I was a Garrison Keillor fan in the first place, but what an a$$.
Funny you should mention that, wj. I remember reading the column that this article refers to in my local paper when it was first published. Not that I was a Garrison Keillor fan in the first place, but what an a$$.
Funny you should mention that, wj. I remember reading the column that this article refers to in my local paper when it was first published. Not that I was a Garrison Keillor fan in the first place, but what an a$$.
I liked the “dreck” thing at the end. That was good.
I liked the “dreck” thing at the end. That was good.
I liked the “dreck” thing at the end. That was good.
There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view
Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways.
for fnck’s sake, have you no self-awareness?
There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view
Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways.
for fnck’s sake, have you no self-awareness?
There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view
Most of what you see in this election is the buildup of resentment caused by being told your pov is wrong every day in crude and insulting ways.
for fnck’s sake, have you no self-awareness?
Keillor seems to be kind of an odd duck, himself. This not being the least of the examples.
Great poetry minute on the radio, though. Not Prairie Home, but the literature spot.
Keillor seems to be kind of an odd duck, himself. This not being the least of the examples.
Great poetry minute on the radio, though. Not Prairie Home, but the literature spot.
Keillor seems to be kind of an odd duck, himself. This not being the least of the examples.
Great poetry minute on the radio, though. Not Prairie Home, but the literature spot.
First, no one here, me especially is a victim. Second, I started my participation in this thread complaining about the nimrods on the right. Third, NY actually passed a law outlawing 32 ounce sodas, give me a break, they, meaning all those people that make them the second bluest place in America, are proud of it. So why is it a problem to point it out? Third, In a battle of silly generalizations I don’t come in first on this blog. Lastly, why, when I point out how rude people are am I *sensitive*?
First, no one here, me especially is a victim. Second, I started my participation in this thread complaining about the nimrods on the right. Third, NY actually passed a law outlawing 32 ounce sodas, give me a break, they, meaning all those people that make them the second bluest place in America, are proud of it. So why is it a problem to point it out? Third, In a battle of silly generalizations I don’t come in first on this blog. Lastly, why, when I point out how rude people are am I *sensitive*?
First, no one here, me especially is a victim. Second, I started my participation in this thread complaining about the nimrods on the right. Third, NY actually passed a law outlawing 32 ounce sodas, give me a break, they, meaning all those people that make them the second bluest place in America, are proud of it. So why is it a problem to point it out? Third, In a battle of silly generalizations I don’t come in first on this blog. Lastly, why, when I point out how rude people are am I *sensitive*?
all good marty.
it’s a big country, with a lot of different kinds of people in it. it’s amazing we get along to the degree that we do.
the only thing that rubs me the wrong way in any of it is anybody claiming their personal context is the ‘real America’.
there is no single ‘real America’.
all good marty.
it’s a big country, with a lot of different kinds of people in it. it’s amazing we get along to the degree that we do.
the only thing that rubs me the wrong way in any of it is anybody claiming their personal context is the ‘real America’.
there is no single ‘real America’.
all good marty.
it’s a big country, with a lot of different kinds of people in it. it’s amazing we get along to the degree that we do.
the only thing that rubs me the wrong way in any of it is anybody claiming their personal context is the ‘real America’.
there is no single ‘real America’.
Marty, you at least appear to be sensitive because you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe. The problem isn’t that the rudeness doesn’t exist (it does), rather that you attribute that rudeness to every single human being in an area of the United States that is inhabited by tens of millions of people (at least – without looking it up).
Maybe it’s unintentional hyperbole stated in haste, but it makes you sound sensitive. Maybe you’re not really sensitve, but merely choose your words poorly.
(Like this: “Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me. Think I’ll eat some worms.”)
Marty, you at least appear to be sensitive because you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe. The problem isn’t that the rudeness doesn’t exist (it does), rather that you attribute that rudeness to every single human being in an area of the United States that is inhabited by tens of millions of people (at least – without looking it up).
Maybe it’s unintentional hyperbole stated in haste, but it makes you sound sensitive. Maybe you’re not really sensitve, but merely choose your words poorly.
(Like this: “Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me. Think I’ll eat some worms.”)
Marty, you at least appear to be sensitive because you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe. The problem isn’t that the rudeness doesn’t exist (it does), rather that you attribute that rudeness to every single human being in an area of the United States that is inhabited by tens of millions of people (at least – without looking it up).
Maybe it’s unintentional hyperbole stated in haste, but it makes you sound sensitive. Maybe you’re not really sensitve, but merely choose your words poorly.
(Like this: “Nobody likes me. Everybody hates me. Think I’ll eat some worms.”)
no hsh, I am responding to someone, in this case mostly the count, who’s hyperbole I could never match. I also get to read about all kinds of people in vast generalizations(Republicans, Texans, Southerners, Conservatives) take your pick pretty regularly that far outnumber the northeast corridor, which I just used because someone else had used it earlier. But, it seems some people would rather discuss form rather than the intent. EVERYONE on this blog, I do mean everyone, understands the breadth of the generalization. You decide that is the thing to argue about over the point. Maybe its unintentional, maybe you don’t want to reflect on the point. Not important. But I am not even close to being sensitive in the basic points I am making.
For NV and wj who both recognized the point and either disagreed or conceded a portion of it I appreciate the interaction.
I’ll end my fairly mellow rant with, I am sure no one here was confused about the point I was making. Smart people.
no hsh, I am responding to someone, in this case mostly the count, who’s hyperbole I could never match. I also get to read about all kinds of people in vast generalizations(Republicans, Texans, Southerners, Conservatives) take your pick pretty regularly that far outnumber the northeast corridor, which I just used because someone else had used it earlier. But, it seems some people would rather discuss form rather than the intent. EVERYONE on this blog, I do mean everyone, understands the breadth of the generalization. You decide that is the thing to argue about over the point. Maybe its unintentional, maybe you don’t want to reflect on the point. Not important. But I am not even close to being sensitive in the basic points I am making.
For NV and wj who both recognized the point and either disagreed or conceded a portion of it I appreciate the interaction.
I’ll end my fairly mellow rant with, I am sure no one here was confused about the point I was making. Smart people.
no hsh, I am responding to someone, in this case mostly the count, who’s hyperbole I could never match. I also get to read about all kinds of people in vast generalizations(Republicans, Texans, Southerners, Conservatives) take your pick pretty regularly that far outnumber the northeast corridor, which I just used because someone else had used it earlier. But, it seems some people would rather discuss form rather than the intent. EVERYONE on this blog, I do mean everyone, understands the breadth of the generalization. You decide that is the thing to argue about over the point. Maybe its unintentional, maybe you don’t want to reflect on the point. Not important. But I am not even close to being sensitive in the basic points I am making.
For NV and wj who both recognized the point and either disagreed or conceded a portion of it I appreciate the interaction.
I’ll end my fairly mellow rant with, I am sure no one here was confused about the point I was making. Smart people.
I don’t concede anything in saying that the rudeness you describe does exist?
The reason I discuss your form is only to explain how I came to the opinion I did about your being sensitive. Even in doing that, I admit that I may have come to the wrong opinion.
I’m not really sure why you have appreciate NV and wj’s responses any more than mine. They seem to be as skeptical of your generalizations about Northeasterners as I am.
The Count, even in his most hyperbolic moments, tends to go out of his way not to overgeneralize. His fantanstical and vulgar harshness is well focused, IMO. Do you ever think he’s talking about you when he discusses vermin and pigf*ckers?
I don’t concede anything in saying that the rudeness you describe does exist?
The reason I discuss your form is only to explain how I came to the opinion I did about your being sensitive. Even in doing that, I admit that I may have come to the wrong opinion.
I’m not really sure why you have appreciate NV and wj’s responses any more than mine. They seem to be as skeptical of your generalizations about Northeasterners as I am.
The Count, even in his most hyperbolic moments, tends to go out of his way not to overgeneralize. His fantanstical and vulgar harshness is well focused, IMO. Do you ever think he’s talking about you when he discusses vermin and pigf*ckers?
I don’t concede anything in saying that the rudeness you describe does exist?
The reason I discuss your form is only to explain how I came to the opinion I did about your being sensitive. Even in doing that, I admit that I may have come to the wrong opinion.
I’m not really sure why you have appreciate NV and wj’s responses any more than mine. They seem to be as skeptical of your generalizations about Northeasterners as I am.
The Count, even in his most hyperbolic moments, tends to go out of his way not to overgeneralize. His fantanstical and vulgar harshness is well focused, IMO. Do you ever think he’s talking about you when he discusses vermin and pigf*ckers?
Hyperbole.
You have no idea the time I waste keeping one step ahead of reality and letting you in on, say, the next nonsense that will issue from Donald Trump’s mouth before tomorrow’s papers pick it up.
Drudge, for example, has another name for hyperbole: content.
And he ain’t the only one. He’s become a very rich man purveying hyperbole. And here I give it away free and it’s criticized.
In fact, the Founders considered naming our country Hyperbolestan, but some corporation that owned the rights to the name threatened to sue.
If I were the sensitive type, I’d be deeply hurt and stay in bed for the duration and eat crackers.
I just picked this bit of news up on the new tooth crown I had installed in my mouth last week.
Several members of the Republican Freedom Caucus in the House of Representatives will put forth a bill to prohibit the four “American” prisoners, all U.S. citizens, newly returned by Iran, from entering the United States because they have funny Middle Eastern sounding names and no one really knows their motives for wanting to get the heck out of Iran and return to their freedoms in America.
The bill will demand that the prisoners’ and their families’ American citizenship papers be seized and they be denied entry to this country and deported.
They’ll be sent to Mexico, where they are probably from anyway, and the rumors will be spread that the entire Iranian “prisoner” thing was a ruse to cover the fact that they wanted to come to America and live cheek to jowl in subsidized housing, while picking vegetables during the day.
It will be revealed at a later date that American neo-conservative hardliners worked hand-in-hand with Iranian hardliners to screw things up and cause World War III, a goal shared in common by both groups.
Now look, someone will suggest I just made that stuff up. And then when reality catches up and something very close to this happens, the same people will say “you can’t make this stuff up”.
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
You see the position I’m in?
Hyperbole.
You have no idea the time I waste keeping one step ahead of reality and letting you in on, say, the next nonsense that will issue from Donald Trump’s mouth before tomorrow’s papers pick it up.
Drudge, for example, has another name for hyperbole: content.
And he ain’t the only one. He’s become a very rich man purveying hyperbole. And here I give it away free and it’s criticized.
In fact, the Founders considered naming our country Hyperbolestan, but some corporation that owned the rights to the name threatened to sue.
If I were the sensitive type, I’d be deeply hurt and stay in bed for the duration and eat crackers.
I just picked this bit of news up on the new tooth crown I had installed in my mouth last week.
Several members of the Republican Freedom Caucus in the House of Representatives will put forth a bill to prohibit the four “American” prisoners, all U.S. citizens, newly returned by Iran, from entering the United States because they have funny Middle Eastern sounding names and no one really knows their motives for wanting to get the heck out of Iran and return to their freedoms in America.
The bill will demand that the prisoners’ and their families’ American citizenship papers be seized and they be denied entry to this country and deported.
They’ll be sent to Mexico, where they are probably from anyway, and the rumors will be spread that the entire Iranian “prisoner” thing was a ruse to cover the fact that they wanted to come to America and live cheek to jowl in subsidized housing, while picking vegetables during the day.
It will be revealed at a later date that American neo-conservative hardliners worked hand-in-hand with Iranian hardliners to screw things up and cause World War III, a goal shared in common by both groups.
Now look, someone will suggest I just made that stuff up. And then when reality catches up and something very close to this happens, the same people will say “you can’t make this stuff up”.
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
You see the position I’m in?
Hyperbole.
You have no idea the time I waste keeping one step ahead of reality and letting you in on, say, the next nonsense that will issue from Donald Trump’s mouth before tomorrow’s papers pick it up.
Drudge, for example, has another name for hyperbole: content.
And he ain’t the only one. He’s become a very rich man purveying hyperbole. And here I give it away free and it’s criticized.
In fact, the Founders considered naming our country Hyperbolestan, but some corporation that owned the rights to the name threatened to sue.
If I were the sensitive type, I’d be deeply hurt and stay in bed for the duration and eat crackers.
I just picked this bit of news up on the new tooth crown I had installed in my mouth last week.
Several members of the Republican Freedom Caucus in the House of Representatives will put forth a bill to prohibit the four “American” prisoners, all U.S. citizens, newly returned by Iran, from entering the United States because they have funny Middle Eastern sounding names and no one really knows their motives for wanting to get the heck out of Iran and return to their freedoms in America.
The bill will demand that the prisoners’ and their families’ American citizenship papers be seized and they be denied entry to this country and deported.
They’ll be sent to Mexico, where they are probably from anyway, and the rumors will be spread that the entire Iranian “prisoner” thing was a ruse to cover the fact that they wanted to come to America and live cheek to jowl in subsidized housing, while picking vegetables during the day.
It will be revealed at a later date that American neo-conservative hardliners worked hand-in-hand with Iranian hardliners to screw things up and cause World War III, a goal shared in common by both groups.
Now look, someone will suggest I just made that stuff up. And then when reality catches up and something very close to this happens, the same people will say “you can’t make this stuff up”.
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
You see the position I’m in?
hsh, just chatting here. When you say “you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe.” I feel you are not really trying to hear my point.
Because when I said ” There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.” I assumed that no one take that as a fact, just a reflection of a widespread attitude that is clearly a generalization.
Both NV, who just generalized back about living in the heartland which I bet is absolutely true, and wj who recognized some reality underneath the clear generalization addressed the underlying point in some way.
I am not sensitive about almost everything, I really don’t like being called certain names I suppose. So most of what I put here is “the other side” when I think there is one that is being overlooked or dismissed that is important to consider.
hsh, just chatting here. When you say “you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe.” I feel you are not really trying to hear my point.
Because when I said ” There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.” I assumed that no one take that as a fact, just a reflection of a widespread attitude that is clearly a generalization.
Both NV, who just generalized back about living in the heartland which I bet is absolutely true, and wj who recognized some reality underneath the clear generalization addressed the underlying point in some way.
I am not sensitive about almost everything, I really don’t like being called certain names I suppose. So most of what I put here is “the other side” when I think there is one that is being overlooked or dismissed that is important to consider.
hsh, just chatting here. When you say “you make patently false statements based on apparently erroneous perceptions that seem to stem from an emotional response to the rudeness you describe.” I feel you are not really trying to hear my point.
Because when I said ” There is no person in the Northeast corridor that believes anyone from Texas or Alabama or Louisiana or Nebraska has a legitimate point of view unless it accidentally matches theirs.” I assumed that no one take that as a fact, just a reflection of a widespread attitude that is clearly a generalization.
Both NV, who just generalized back about living in the heartland which I bet is absolutely true, and wj who recognized some reality underneath the clear generalization addressed the underlying point in some way.
I am not sensitive about almost everything, I really don’t like being called certain names I suppose. So most of what I put here is “the other side” when I think there is one that is being overlooked or dismissed that is important to consider.
Marty: the internet is notoriously bad at transmitting emotional subtext, and that might be part of the issue.
BTW, I totally agree with you about the rude attitude of the average NewYawker. It’s part of their charm.
Marty: the internet is notoriously bad at transmitting emotional subtext, and that might be part of the issue.
BTW, I totally agree with you about the rude attitude of the average NewYawker. It’s part of their charm.
Marty: the internet is notoriously bad at transmitting emotional subtext, and that might be part of the issue.
BTW, I totally agree with you about the rude attitude of the average NewYawker. It’s part of their charm.
What your point sounds like to me, in very general terms, is that conservatives have to hold their tounges because liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions as being based on ignorace (or bigotry or whatever). I don’t doubt that liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions. I just don’t think conservatives have to hold their tounges (as a general rule – not doubting it happens on a small scale in specific intances), only because they don’t hold their tounges, not even where I live, more or less smack in the middle of the liberal, elitist Northeast corridor.
When I go to a friend’s house in the fall to watch a college football game and there’s general agreement that Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate who makes any sense and that Obama is ruining (RUINING!!!) the country, I, the only remotely liberal person in the crowd, decide that there’s no reason to bother presenting “the other side,” because I know it’s pointless. I just wait until we can talk about football or any other thing that isn’t politics.
If your “other side” was that it goes both ways, I wouldn’t take issue with it. But it wouldn’t be much of another side, either, I guess. It would have the virtue of being true, though.
What your point sounds like to me, in very general terms, is that conservatives have to hold their tounges because liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions as being based on ignorace (or bigotry or whatever). I don’t doubt that liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions. I just don’t think conservatives have to hold their tounges (as a general rule – not doubting it happens on a small scale in specific intances), only because they don’t hold their tounges, not even where I live, more or less smack in the middle of the liberal, elitist Northeast corridor.
When I go to a friend’s house in the fall to watch a college football game and there’s general agreement that Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate who makes any sense and that Obama is ruining (RUINING!!!) the country, I, the only remotely liberal person in the crowd, decide that there’s no reason to bother presenting “the other side,” because I know it’s pointless. I just wait until we can talk about football or any other thing that isn’t politics.
If your “other side” was that it goes both ways, I wouldn’t take issue with it. But it wouldn’t be much of another side, either, I guess. It would have the virtue of being true, though.
What your point sounds like to me, in very general terms, is that conservatives have to hold their tounges because liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions as being based on ignorace (or bigotry or whatever). I don’t doubt that liberals will look down their noses at them and dismiss their opinions. I just don’t think conservatives have to hold their tounges (as a general rule – not doubting it happens on a small scale in specific intances), only because they don’t hold their tounges, not even where I live, more or less smack in the middle of the liberal, elitist Northeast corridor.
When I go to a friend’s house in the fall to watch a college football game and there’s general agreement that Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate who makes any sense and that Obama is ruining (RUINING!!!) the country, I, the only remotely liberal person in the crowd, decide that there’s no reason to bother presenting “the other side,” because I know it’s pointless. I just wait until we can talk about football or any other thing that isn’t politics.
If your “other side” was that it goes both ways, I wouldn’t take issue with it. But it wouldn’t be much of another side, either, I guess. It would have the virtue of being true, though.
Speaking of football … holy friggin’ crap. What a G-D game!
Speaking of football … holy friggin’ crap. What a G-D game!
Speaking of football … holy friggin’ crap. What a G-D game!
Hsh, my side encompassed s few things. Starting with Cruz talking about Trumps New York roots didn’t really insult anyone. It was a made up kerfuffle, because Trump is from New York and all of the things he said Nee Yorkers favor are essentially true for the majority. Of course, that got turned into insulting all New Yorkers again I called BS. I mean, read the thread. The point you’re saying I’m making is pretty far down the list, and in the middle of a little back and forth with Russell. Again, you just picked that as my point.
Hsh, my side encompassed s few things. Starting with Cruz talking about Trumps New York roots didn’t really insult anyone. It was a made up kerfuffle, because Trump is from New York and all of the things he said Nee Yorkers favor are essentially true for the majority. Of course, that got turned into insulting all New Yorkers again I called BS. I mean, read the thread. The point you’re saying I’m making is pretty far down the list, and in the middle of a little back and forth with Russell. Again, you just picked that as my point.
Hsh, my side encompassed s few things. Starting with Cruz talking about Trumps New York roots didn’t really insult anyone. It was a made up kerfuffle, because Trump is from New York and all of the things he said Nee Yorkers favor are essentially true for the majority. Of course, that got turned into insulting all New Yorkers again I called BS. I mean, read the thread. The point you’re saying I’m making is pretty far down the list, and in the middle of a little back and forth with Russell. Again, you just picked that as my point.
Maybe it wasn’t your only point, but it was yours and not anyone else’s.
More importantly, did you watch that game, or what?
Maybe it wasn’t your only point, but it was yours and not anyone else’s.
More importantly, did you watch that game, or what?
Maybe it wasn’t your only point, but it was yours and not anyone else’s.
More importantly, did you watch that game, or what?
My comment was after the game. Just amazing.
My comment was after the game. Just amazing.
My comment was after the game. Just amazing.
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
For example, you missed this one: The Republican candidates are complaining that the prisoner exchange wasn’t arranged sooner. Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. 😉
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
For example, you missed this one: The Republican candidates are complaining that the prisoner exchange wasn’t arranged sooner. Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. 😉
The only failing, believe it or not I have is that I underestimate stupidity. Reality tops me every time.
For example, you missed this one: The Republican candidates are complaining that the prisoner exchange wasn’t arranged sooner. Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. 😉
HSH, too true about the game. If you wrote a story with this kind of ending, it would get rejected as totally implausible.
HSH, too true about the game. If you wrote a story with this kind of ending, it would get rejected as totally implausible.
HSH, too true about the game. If you wrote a story with this kind of ending, it would get rejected as totally implausible.
“Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. ;-)”
That’s good spin. But there release just as they need someone to say they have complied is a lot too coincidental.
“Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. ;-)”
That’s good spin. But there release just as they need someone to say they have complied is a lot too coincidental.
“Carefully ignoringthe fact that what made it possible was the channels which were developed in the course of arranging the Iran nuclear treaty that they are all so fond of. ;-)”
That’s good spin. But there release just as they need someone to say they have complied is a lot too coincidental.
That is a dreadful coincidence, nearly Dickensian, I’d venture.
It’s like David Copperfield or Pip coming upon good fortune, through no agency of their own, when what really should have happened, in all honesty, was they should have been run over by a lorry.
Better that the prisoners would have been retained in Iran and later scragged in various carpet bombing schemes the first day of the next American Presidency.
Jimmy Carter should have been so lucky, but Reaganite mullah hardliners and Iranian mullah hardliners worked together to delay the happy coincidence.
“just as they need someone to say they have complied”
Since you won’t and can’t admit it, others step up.
That is a dreadful coincidence, nearly Dickensian, I’d venture.
It’s like David Copperfield or Pip coming upon good fortune, through no agency of their own, when what really should have happened, in all honesty, was they should have been run over by a lorry.
Better that the prisoners would have been retained in Iran and later scragged in various carpet bombing schemes the first day of the next American Presidency.
Jimmy Carter should have been so lucky, but Reaganite mullah hardliners and Iranian mullah hardliners worked together to delay the happy coincidence.
“just as they need someone to say they have complied”
Since you won’t and can’t admit it, others step up.
That is a dreadful coincidence, nearly Dickensian, I’d venture.
It’s like David Copperfield or Pip coming upon good fortune, through no agency of their own, when what really should have happened, in all honesty, was they should have been run over by a lorry.
Better that the prisoners would have been retained in Iran and later scragged in various carpet bombing schemes the first day of the next American Presidency.
Jimmy Carter should have been so lucky, but Reaganite mullah hardliners and Iranian mullah hardliners worked together to delay the happy coincidence.
“just as they need someone to say they have complied”
Since you won’t and can’t admit it, others step up.
Admit what? That they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc. These people fund most of the terrorism in the world, yet we believe they dismantled their nuclear program? I have a bridge for you.
Admit what? That they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc. These people fund most of the terrorism in the world, yet we believe they dismantled their nuclear program? I have a bridge for you.
Admit what? That they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc. These people fund most of the terrorism in the world, yet we believe they dismantled their nuclear program? I have a bridge for you.
ok, look, we’ll allow hyperbole, but there are limits.
ok, look, we’ll allow hyperbole, but there are limits.
ok, look, we’ll allow hyperbole, but there are limits.
“I have a bridge for you.”
Is it concealed in a cake?
“I have a bridge for you.”
Is it concealed in a cake?
“I have a bridge for you.”
Is it concealed in a cake?
If Martin Luther King is a conservative Republican, why do Republicans who claim his posthumous allegiance want to keep shooting at him?
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/01/14/air-force-officials-pull-mlk-day-fun-shoot-flyer/
Do conservatives think their man James Earle Ray missed him the first time?
Off-topic? No, coincidence, and all of a piece, he hyperbolized.
If Martin Luther King is a conservative Republican, why do Republicans who claim his posthumous allegiance want to keep shooting at him?
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/01/14/air-force-officials-pull-mlk-day-fun-shoot-flyer/
Do conservatives think their man James Earle Ray missed him the first time?
Off-topic? No, coincidence, and all of a piece, he hyperbolized.
If Martin Luther King is a conservative Republican, why do Republicans who claim his posthumous allegiance want to keep shooting at him?
http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/01/14/air-force-officials-pull-mlk-day-fun-shoot-flyer/
Do conservatives think their man James Earle Ray missed him the first time?
Off-topic? No, coincidence, and all of a piece, he hyperbolized.
tongues!
tongues!
tongues!
Iran’s hard-line mullahs are just as frightened as ours about the nuclear/sanctions lifted deal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/tensions-in-iran-after-nuclear-deal-grow-in-hostility.html?_r=0
There was an Iranian American on NPR yesterday or the day before who said that lifting the sanctions, negotiated by more pragmatic and relatively moderate Iranian leaders, scares the crap out of the conservative mullahs because in the long-term, it opens up Iran to liberalizing western influences.
That the heartland of the United States could be so lucky, he cracked.
I don’t have a link to that. If I saved links to everything I read and listen to, my life would be a poverty.
The conservative Supreme Leaders of Saudi Arabia, who have sponsered most of the terrorism in the world that the Iranians didn’t have time for, are running scared too.
It seems to me I read something yesterday too that the conservative heartland Iranian mullahs preempted coverage of the nuclear deal in the Iranian broadcast media with reports of the prisoner swap, anything to get the frightening prospect of America taking them to the cleaners with the deal between moderate Hassan Rouhani and moderate Hussein Obama off the TV where moderate Iranians might see it.
Don’t have a link to that either, but someone else might find it.
The Supreme conservative Leaders of Iran have worked hand-in-hand with those who believe they are the Supreme conservative Leaders of America to scuttle the negotiations and now to darken the outlook for implementing the deal.
It’s a theme with conservatives throughout the world. Putting off warfare, killing, and the punishment of anyone not them cannot be tolerated.
But maybe it will all fall through, and blood lust will win out, so moderates everywhere can be butchered.
I like a ticker tape parade just before the mushroom clouds appear.
Iran’s hard-line mullahs are just as frightened as ours about the nuclear/sanctions lifted deal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/tensions-in-iran-after-nuclear-deal-grow-in-hostility.html?_r=0
There was an Iranian American on NPR yesterday or the day before who said that lifting the sanctions, negotiated by more pragmatic and relatively moderate Iranian leaders, scares the crap out of the conservative mullahs because in the long-term, it opens up Iran to liberalizing western influences.
That the heartland of the United States could be so lucky, he cracked.
I don’t have a link to that. If I saved links to everything I read and listen to, my life would be a poverty.
The conservative Supreme Leaders of Saudi Arabia, who have sponsered most of the terrorism in the world that the Iranians didn’t have time for, are running scared too.
It seems to me I read something yesterday too that the conservative heartland Iranian mullahs preempted coverage of the nuclear deal in the Iranian broadcast media with reports of the prisoner swap, anything to get the frightening prospect of America taking them to the cleaners with the deal between moderate Hassan Rouhani and moderate Hussein Obama off the TV where moderate Iranians might see it.
Don’t have a link to that either, but someone else might find it.
The Supreme conservative Leaders of Iran have worked hand-in-hand with those who believe they are the Supreme conservative Leaders of America to scuttle the negotiations and now to darken the outlook for implementing the deal.
It’s a theme with conservatives throughout the world. Putting off warfare, killing, and the punishment of anyone not them cannot be tolerated.
But maybe it will all fall through, and blood lust will win out, so moderates everywhere can be butchered.
I like a ticker tape parade just before the mushroom clouds appear.
Iran’s hard-line mullahs are just as frightened as ours about the nuclear/sanctions lifted deal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/tensions-in-iran-after-nuclear-deal-grow-in-hostility.html?_r=0
There was an Iranian American on NPR yesterday or the day before who said that lifting the sanctions, negotiated by more pragmatic and relatively moderate Iranian leaders, scares the crap out of the conservative mullahs because in the long-term, it opens up Iran to liberalizing western influences.
That the heartland of the United States could be so lucky, he cracked.
I don’t have a link to that. If I saved links to everything I read and listen to, my life would be a poverty.
The conservative Supreme Leaders of Saudi Arabia, who have sponsered most of the terrorism in the world that the Iranians didn’t have time for, are running scared too.
It seems to me I read something yesterday too that the conservative heartland Iranian mullahs preempted coverage of the nuclear deal in the Iranian broadcast media with reports of the prisoner swap, anything to get the frightening prospect of America taking them to the cleaners with the deal between moderate Hassan Rouhani and moderate Hussein Obama off the TV where moderate Iranians might see it.
Don’t have a link to that either, but someone else might find it.
The Supreme conservative Leaders of Iran have worked hand-in-hand with those who believe they are the Supreme conservative Leaders of America to scuttle the negotiations and now to darken the outlook for implementing the deal.
It’s a theme with conservatives throughout the world. Putting off warfare, killing, and the punishment of anyone not them cannot be tolerated.
But maybe it will all fall through, and blood lust will win out, so moderates everywhere can be butchered.
I like a ticker tape parade just before the mushroom clouds appear.
These people fund most of the terrorism in the world
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
These people fund most of the terrorism in the world
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
These people fund most of the terrorism in the world
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
He’ll end up shooting Santa Claus or one of his kids as an intruder next Christmas:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rubio-defends-christmas-eve-gun-purchase
Rubio must think conservative voters are even more stupid than I would dare to predict. This reminds of when Ricky Ricardo, an actual Cuban, and Fred Mertz tired to bamboozle Lucy and Ethel into letting them celebrate their respective wedding anniversaries at the prizefights rather than treating the girls to a night at the Copacabana.
There was some ‘splainin’ to do.
Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.
Ted Cruz countered that Trump’s action was an example of liberal New Yorker-on-New Yorker violence, given that Santa has a suite at Rockefeller Center, and if the Rockefeller’s are involved, we’re half-way to a RINO/Commie hellscape.
He’ll end up shooting Santa Claus or one of his kids as an intruder next Christmas:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rubio-defends-christmas-eve-gun-purchase
Rubio must think conservative voters are even more stupid than I would dare to predict. This reminds of when Ricky Ricardo, an actual Cuban, and Fred Mertz tired to bamboozle Lucy and Ethel into letting them celebrate their respective wedding anniversaries at the prizefights rather than treating the girls to a night at the Copacabana.
There was some ‘splainin’ to do.
Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.
Ted Cruz countered that Trump’s action was an example of liberal New Yorker-on-New Yorker violence, given that Santa has a suite at Rockefeller Center, and if the Rockefeller’s are involved, we’re half-way to a RINO/Commie hellscape.
He’ll end up shooting Santa Claus or one of his kids as an intruder next Christmas:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rubio-defends-christmas-eve-gun-purchase
Rubio must think conservative voters are even more stupid than I would dare to predict. This reminds of when Ricky Ricardo, an actual Cuban, and Fred Mertz tired to bamboozle Lucy and Ethel into letting them celebrate their respective wedding anniversaries at the prizefights rather than treating the girls to a night at the Copacabana.
There was some ‘splainin’ to do.
Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.
Ted Cruz countered that Trump’s action was an example of liberal New Yorker-on-New Yorker violence, given that Santa has a suite at Rockefeller Center, and if the Rockefeller’s are involved, we’re half-way to a RINO/Commie hellscape.
Is Hezbollah shut down.
Hezbollah is a political party, holding ~1/10th of the parliamentary seats in their nation, which was not a party to the negotiations. It’s patently ridiculous to even suggest that its dismantlement should have been a requirement of a nuclear deal with Iran. Nowhere near as ridiculous as a statement that Iran funds most of the terrorism in the world, but still perfectly ridiculous. As tempting as easy narratives relating everything in international politics to relations with and goals of the US may be, they simply do not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form.
Is Hezbollah shut down.
Hezbollah is a political party, holding ~1/10th of the parliamentary seats in their nation, which was not a party to the negotiations. It’s patently ridiculous to even suggest that its dismantlement should have been a requirement of a nuclear deal with Iran. Nowhere near as ridiculous as a statement that Iran funds most of the terrorism in the world, but still perfectly ridiculous. As tempting as easy narratives relating everything in international politics to relations with and goals of the US may be, they simply do not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form.
Is Hezbollah shut down.
Hezbollah is a political party, holding ~1/10th of the parliamentary seats in their nation, which was not a party to the negotiations. It’s patently ridiculous to even suggest that its dismantlement should have been a requirement of a nuclear deal with Iran. Nowhere near as ridiculous as a statement that Iran funds most of the terrorism in the world, but still perfectly ridiculous. As tempting as easy narratives relating everything in international politics to relations with and goals of the US may be, they simply do not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form.
“Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.”
Beard, something on his head that looks suspicously like a turban, sneaking into houses at night, objectively socialist (giving aways stuff), foot festishist (stockings!), hangs out with ‘elves’.
Stand yer ground, heartland americans! Don’t you know there’s a War on Christmas?
“Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.”
Beard, something on his head that looks suspicously like a turban, sneaking into houses at night, objectively socialist (giving aways stuff), foot festishist (stockings!), hangs out with ‘elves’.
Stand yer ground, heartland americans! Don’t you know there’s a War on Christmas?
“Not to be outdone, Donald Trump said he already shot Santa Claus this most recent Christmas, just in case the bearded one was an ISIS assassin.”
Beard, something on his head that looks suspicously like a turban, sneaking into houses at night, objectively socialist (giving aways stuff), foot festishist (stockings!), hangs out with ‘elves’.
Stand yer ground, heartland americans! Don’t you know there’s a War on Christmas?
I am in the market for a bridge, but can find nothing on Craigslist. Word has it the Heartland has an active market for these items, but distributors and/or mfr. reps are hard to find in Seattle*.
If you have a lead, let me know.
*We did buy a rather useless tunnel boring machine, and tend to demand floating bridges for some reason.
I am in the market for a bridge, but can find nothing on Craigslist. Word has it the Heartland has an active market for these items, but distributors and/or mfr. reps are hard to find in Seattle*.
If you have a lead, let me know.
*We did buy a rather useless tunnel boring machine, and tend to demand floating bridges for some reason.
I am in the market for a bridge, but can find nothing on Craigslist. Word has it the Heartland has an active market for these items, but distributors and/or mfr. reps are hard to find in Seattle*.
If you have a lead, let me know.
*We did buy a rather useless tunnel boring machine, and tend to demand floating bridges for some reason.
bobbyp: use the keywords “I-35W” and “Pawlenty”; I hear there’s some good deals on used bridges, but they’re kinda fixer-upper.
bobbyp: use the keywords “I-35W” and “Pawlenty”; I hear there’s some good deals on used bridges, but they’re kinda fixer-upper.
bobbyp: use the keywords “I-35W” and “Pawlenty”; I hear there’s some good deals on used bridges, but they’re kinda fixer-upper.
they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc.
Right. Because, after all, all those tough-on-Iran predecessors did so well on getting Hezbollah shut down. And without getting taken to the cleaners.
they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc.
Right. Because, after all, all those tough-on-Iran predecessors did so well on getting Hezbollah shut down. And without getting taken to the cleaners.
they have taken Obama to the cleaners. Is Hezbollah shut down. Etc.
Right. Because, after all, all those tough-on-Iran predecessors did so well on getting Hezbollah shut down. And without getting taken to the cleaners.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
Nah, wj, they were fine. Because they didn’t offer Iran any concessions (aka aid and comfort), the actual effects of their policies are entirely irrelevant. Standing up tall and showing the world America is tough was more than enough of a positive result. Actually effecting policy changes? Bah, that’s not nearly as important as demonstrating intestinal fortitude and an unwillingness to negotiate or compromise.
Nah, wj, they were fine. Because they didn’t offer Iran any concessions (aka aid and comfort), the actual effects of their policies are entirely irrelevant. Standing up tall and showing the world America is tough was more than enough of a positive result. Actually effecting policy changes? Bah, that’s not nearly as important as demonstrating intestinal fortitude and an unwillingness to negotiate or compromise.
Nah, wj, they were fine. Because they didn’t offer Iran any concessions (aka aid and comfort), the actual effects of their policies are entirely irrelevant. Standing up tall and showing the world America is tough was more than enough of a positive result. Actually effecting policy changes? Bah, that’s not nearly as important as demonstrating intestinal fortitude and an unwillingness to negotiate or compromise.
That they have taken Obama to the cleaners.
$5 says Marty is going to become a staunch Trump defender within the next 9 months.
That they have taken Obama to the cleaners.
$5 says Marty is going to become a staunch Trump defender within the next 9 months.
That they have taken Obama to the cleaners.
$5 says Marty is going to become a staunch Trump defender within the next 9 months.
Sorry, Cleek, not winning any sucker bets today.
Sorry, Cleek, not winning any sucker bets today.
Sorry, Cleek, not winning any sucker bets today.
cleek loses $5. The closest thing I’ll get to that id adamantly complaining about whoever is the Dem candidate.
cleek loses $5. The closest thing I’ll get to that id adamantly complaining about whoever is the Dem candidate.
cleek loses $5. The closest thing I’ll get to that id adamantly complaining about whoever is the Dem candidate.
bobbyp:
The new Polish “government” needs to be overthrown violently by the Polish people, as an exampled threat to conservatives who destroy democratic government around the globe:
”The nation? In the United States, we use that term to refer to all the country’s citizens. In Poland, as in much of Europe, “nation” does not refer to real people but to some intangible “essence,” some mystical idea said to be unique to the dominant group of each country. Its nebulous, ill-defined nature is what makes it well suited to demagogues.”
When Republicans state that New York is not America, or California is not America, and terms such as “the American people demand”, they are referring not to real people but to some intangible essence said to be unique to the dominant group in this country.
A good half of the people of this country are not included as part of the intangible essence conservatives have in mind.
I expect a new Republican President to have very close relations with the fascist, Christian Polish government and they will send conservative apparatchiks over there to study their methods and report back.
What the Polish leadership is doing to its courts sounds like it would fit in well with Texas Governor Abbott’s plans to strip the Supreme Court of much of its authority as the third branch of government.
How many Texans does it take to screw in an incandescent light bulb?
One Polish guy to show them how and a million Texans to do the screwing.
bobbyp:
The new Polish “government” needs to be overthrown violently by the Polish people, as an exampled threat to conservatives who destroy democratic government around the globe:
”The nation? In the United States, we use that term to refer to all the country’s citizens. In Poland, as in much of Europe, “nation” does not refer to real people but to some intangible “essence,” some mystical idea said to be unique to the dominant group of each country. Its nebulous, ill-defined nature is what makes it well suited to demagogues.”
When Republicans state that New York is not America, or California is not America, and terms such as “the American people demand”, they are referring not to real people but to some intangible essence said to be unique to the dominant group in this country.
A good half of the people of this country are not included as part of the intangible essence conservatives have in mind.
I expect a new Republican President to have very close relations with the fascist, Christian Polish government and they will send conservative apparatchiks over there to study their methods and report back.
What the Polish leadership is doing to its courts sounds like it would fit in well with Texas Governor Abbott’s plans to strip the Supreme Court of much of its authority as the third branch of government.
How many Texans does it take to screw in an incandescent light bulb?
One Polish guy to show them how and a million Texans to do the screwing.
bobbyp:
The new Polish “government” needs to be overthrown violently by the Polish people, as an exampled threat to conservatives who destroy democratic government around the globe:
”The nation? In the United States, we use that term to refer to all the country’s citizens. In Poland, as in much of Europe, “nation” does not refer to real people but to some intangible “essence,” some mystical idea said to be unique to the dominant group of each country. Its nebulous, ill-defined nature is what makes it well suited to demagogues.”
When Republicans state that New York is not America, or California is not America, and terms such as “the American people demand”, they are referring not to real people but to some intangible essence said to be unique to the dominant group in this country.
A good half of the people of this country are not included as part of the intangible essence conservatives have in mind.
I expect a new Republican President to have very close relations with the fascist, Christian Polish government and they will send conservative apparatchiks over there to study their methods and report back.
What the Polish leadership is doing to its courts sounds like it would fit in well with Texas Governor Abbott’s plans to strip the Supreme Court of much of its authority as the third branch of government.
How many Texans does it take to screw in an incandescent light bulb?
One Polish guy to show them how and a million Texans to do the screwing.
Flyover country: a term made up by the right-wing, not the left-wing?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlyoverCountry
Heartland/Homeland: I’d be interested to learn of its first use in America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_of_the_World_from_9th_Avenue
This cover is an ironic, self-effacing statement meant to satirize the self-absorption of New Yorkers by a Romanian immigrant who became a New Yorker.
Show me a similar ironic work of art by a denizen of flyover country making ironic fun of the self-absorption of the good folks in the heartland.
Here’s a clue. Any number of movies, TV shows, novels, etc authored by Americans born in “flyover country” who moved to either coast seeking opportunities not available much in flyover country became ironic purveyors of fond irony aimed at their hometown upbringings.
Think Johnny Carson and Dick Cavett, born in small town Nebraska, and David Letterman, he of the all-American “C” student scholarships at Ball State University.
An exception, off the very top of my head, was Percy Kilbride, who played Pa Kettle, and who was born in San Francisco and flew over the rest of the country to start his acting career on Broadway before catching the return flight back to Hollywood.
By the way, it wasn’t too long ago in this country that “New Yorkers are not America” and “west coast liberals”, when uttered by a certain type of southerner, midwesterner and mountainstater, referred nearly exclusively to Jews, in sotto voce natch.
It still does, except that Bibi Netanyahu is now considered more American than Barbara Streisand by the usual suspects, but only as a way to convince Streisand to emigrate to Israel in time for God’s Jew-burning apocalyptic lollapalooza, courtesy of Michelle Bachmann and company, coming soon.
Flyover country: a term made up by the right-wing, not the left-wing?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlyoverCountry
Heartland/Homeland: I’d be interested to learn of its first use in America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_of_the_World_from_9th_Avenue
This cover is an ironic, self-effacing statement meant to satirize the self-absorption of New Yorkers by a Romanian immigrant who became a New Yorker.
Show me a similar ironic work of art by a denizen of flyover country making ironic fun of the self-absorption of the good folks in the heartland.
Here’s a clue. Any number of movies, TV shows, novels, etc authored by Americans born in “flyover country” who moved to either coast seeking opportunities not available much in flyover country became ironic purveyors of fond irony aimed at their hometown upbringings.
Think Johnny Carson and Dick Cavett, born in small town Nebraska, and David Letterman, he of the all-American “C” student scholarships at Ball State University.
An exception, off the very top of my head, was Percy Kilbride, who played Pa Kettle, and who was born in San Francisco and flew over the rest of the country to start his acting career on Broadway before catching the return flight back to Hollywood.
By the way, it wasn’t too long ago in this country that “New Yorkers are not America” and “west coast liberals”, when uttered by a certain type of southerner, midwesterner and mountainstater, referred nearly exclusively to Jews, in sotto voce natch.
It still does, except that Bibi Netanyahu is now considered more American than Barbara Streisand by the usual suspects, but only as a way to convince Streisand to emigrate to Israel in time for God’s Jew-burning apocalyptic lollapalooza, courtesy of Michelle Bachmann and company, coming soon.
Flyover country: a term made up by the right-wing, not the left-wing?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlyoverCountry
Heartland/Homeland: I’d be interested to learn of its first use in America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_of_the_World_from_9th_Avenue
This cover is an ironic, self-effacing statement meant to satirize the self-absorption of New Yorkers by a Romanian immigrant who became a New Yorker.
Show me a similar ironic work of art by a denizen of flyover country making ironic fun of the self-absorption of the good folks in the heartland.
Here’s a clue. Any number of movies, TV shows, novels, etc authored by Americans born in “flyover country” who moved to either coast seeking opportunities not available much in flyover country became ironic purveyors of fond irony aimed at their hometown upbringings.
Think Johnny Carson and Dick Cavett, born in small town Nebraska, and David Letterman, he of the all-American “C” student scholarships at Ball State University.
An exception, off the very top of my head, was Percy Kilbride, who played Pa Kettle, and who was born in San Francisco and flew over the rest of the country to start his acting career on Broadway before catching the return flight back to Hollywood.
By the way, it wasn’t too long ago in this country that “New Yorkers are not America” and “west coast liberals”, when uttered by a certain type of southerner, midwesterner and mountainstater, referred nearly exclusively to Jews, in sotto voce natch.
It still does, except that Bibi Netanyahu is now considered more American than Barbara Streisand by the usual suspects, but only as a way to convince Streisand to emigrate to Israel in time for God’s Jew-burning apocalyptic lollapalooza, courtesy of Michelle Bachmann and company, coming soon.
Larison on Rubio:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/
I think Rubio purchased the Christmas weapon (how’s that for a war on Christmas? to fend off the likes of Larison, given the latter’s superior First Amendment bonafides.
This low, desperate campaign (I don’t blame him really, given the obscene limbo the Republican base is making the candidates do to get under the former’s low, scurvy bar) by this smug little skunk, Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for to move on to not showing up for work in the White House, except for that first busy day of catastrophe for tens of millions of Americans, is pure slime.
His pronouncements remind me increasingly of Fidel Castro’s bombast.
Makes a guy wonder if we should have screened those Cuban refugees with a finer-toothed comb.
Larison on Rubio:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/
I think Rubio purchased the Christmas weapon (how’s that for a war on Christmas? to fend off the likes of Larison, given the latter’s superior First Amendment bonafides.
This low, desperate campaign (I don’t blame him really, given the obscene limbo the Republican base is making the candidates do to get under the former’s low, scurvy bar) by this smug little skunk, Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for to move on to not showing up for work in the White House, except for that first busy day of catastrophe for tens of millions of Americans, is pure slime.
His pronouncements remind me increasingly of Fidel Castro’s bombast.
Makes a guy wonder if we should have screened those Cuban refugees with a finer-toothed comb.
Larison on Rubio:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/
I think Rubio purchased the Christmas weapon (how’s that for a war on Christmas? to fend off the likes of Larison, given the latter’s superior First Amendment bonafides.
This low, desperate campaign (I don’t blame him really, given the obscene limbo the Republican base is making the candidates do to get under the former’s low, scurvy bar) by this smug little skunk, Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for to move on to not showing up for work in the White House, except for that first busy day of catastrophe for tens of millions of Americans, is pure slime.
His pronouncements remind me increasingly of Fidel Castro’s bombast.
Makes a guy wonder if we should have screened those Cuban refugees with a finer-toothed comb.
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
I was disappointed to discover that the Grey Wolves wasn’t some kind of anarchist geezer monkey-wrenching outfit. I was all set to sign up.
Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei wins for most creative name.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
I’m with you. The whole ‘heartland’ and ‘homeland’ thing has a little too much of a Blut and Boden aroma for my taste.
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
I was disappointed to discover that the Grey Wolves wasn’t some kind of anarchist geezer monkey-wrenching outfit. I was all set to sign up.
Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei wins for most creative name.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
I’m with you. The whole ‘heartland’ and ‘homeland’ thing has a little too much of a Blut and Boden aroma for my taste.
Supply, demand…yadda, yadda.
I was disappointed to discover that the Grey Wolves wasn’t some kind of anarchist geezer monkey-wrenching outfit. I was all set to sign up.
Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei wins for most creative name.
When I see appeals to “the American Heartland” or exaltation for “Real Americans”, I am reminded of this and this, and frankly I worry.
I’m with you. The whole ‘heartland’ and ‘homeland’ thing has a little too much of a Blut and Boden aroma for my taste.
Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
Rubio, to avoid showing up for the work in Congress we’re paying him for
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
Come on, Count, be serious. You wouldn’t really prefer to have an additional Republican in the Senate, would you? Better to have, in effect, an open seat.
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
not a very good bargain if the empty seat still caucuses with the GOP. 🙂
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
not a very good bargain if the empty seat still caucuses with the GOP. 🙂
It would be worth paying Rubio twice as much, to never show up at all.
not a very good bargain if the empty seat still caucuses with the GOP. 🙂
Is an empty seat the same as an empty suit…?
Is an empty seat the same as an empty suit…?
Is an empty seat the same as an empty suit…?
He wants it all for free:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/campaign-launches-to-encourage-ranchers-to-stop-paying-grazing-fees
Well, he’s in a crunch because his main source of income and free slave labor were just terminated:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/exploit-your-children-well/
He could move into town or to another state and get a job, I spose. Isn’t that the conservative prescription for the inner city welfare queens, leave their families and their roots and get a f*cking job.
Seems like that very thing has been suggested right here, if I recall.
Meanwhile, his cattle in Arizona are going untended because he has a volunteer job up in Oregon as a professional martyr.
He warns the government not to point a gun at him, as he points his weapon at the rest of us.
Trump likes him.
Maybe Finicum could move to New York City and open up curbside “masturbation booth” franchises, like them people do in Manhattan. Trump could finance.
I understand thousands of Cruz supporters heard THAT accusation from the Cruz aide and decided to abandon the Cruz campaign and take up with Trump, given their predilections for shaking hands with the unemployed.
Classy bunch.
He wants it all for free:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/campaign-launches-to-encourage-ranchers-to-stop-paying-grazing-fees
Well, he’s in a crunch because his main source of income and free slave labor were just terminated:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/exploit-your-children-well/
He could move into town or to another state and get a job, I spose. Isn’t that the conservative prescription for the inner city welfare queens, leave their families and their roots and get a f*cking job.
Seems like that very thing has been suggested right here, if I recall.
Meanwhile, his cattle in Arizona are going untended because he has a volunteer job up in Oregon as a professional martyr.
He warns the government not to point a gun at him, as he points his weapon at the rest of us.
Trump likes him.
Maybe Finicum could move to New York City and open up curbside “masturbation booth” franchises, like them people do in Manhattan. Trump could finance.
I understand thousands of Cruz supporters heard THAT accusation from the Cruz aide and decided to abandon the Cruz campaign and take up with Trump, given their predilections for shaking hands with the unemployed.
Classy bunch.
He wants it all for free:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/campaign-launches-to-encourage-ranchers-to-stop-paying-grazing-fees
Well, he’s in a crunch because his main source of income and free slave labor were just terminated:
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/exploit-your-children-well/
He could move into town or to another state and get a job, I spose. Isn’t that the conservative prescription for the inner city welfare queens, leave their families and their roots and get a f*cking job.
Seems like that very thing has been suggested right here, if I recall.
Meanwhile, his cattle in Arizona are going untended because he has a volunteer job up in Oregon as a professional martyr.
He warns the government not to point a gun at him, as he points his weapon at the rest of us.
Trump likes him.
Maybe Finicum could move to New York City and open up curbside “masturbation booth” franchises, like them people do in Manhattan. Trump could finance.
I understand thousands of Cruz supporters heard THAT accusation from the Cruz aide and decided to abandon the Cruz campaign and take up with Trump, given their predilections for shaking hands with the unemployed.
Classy bunch.
Hands on link to that franchise idea:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-coms-director-new-york-values
Hands on link to that franchise idea:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-coms-director-new-york-values
Hands on link to that franchise idea:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-coms-director-new-york-values
He’s killing citizens in Flint, Michigan with his conservative ideology.
So he calls in the Federal militia to handle his deadly f*ckup.
http://www.samefacts.com/2016/01/domestic-politics/rick-snyder-republican-hero/
Obama should have said no to that request and instead ordered military weaponry sent to arm Flint every resident against any further interference of any kind from the Governor and his nest of free-market murderers in the State House.
But, no, Obama bends over backwards to save Republican ass and what will he get for it.
Hatred from Republican subhuman scum across the country.
He’s killing citizens in Flint, Michigan with his conservative ideology.
So he calls in the Federal militia to handle his deadly f*ckup.
http://www.samefacts.com/2016/01/domestic-politics/rick-snyder-republican-hero/
Obama should have said no to that request and instead ordered military weaponry sent to arm Flint every resident against any further interference of any kind from the Governor and his nest of free-market murderers in the State House.
But, no, Obama bends over backwards to save Republican ass and what will he get for it.
Hatred from Republican subhuman scum across the country.
He’s killing citizens in Flint, Michigan with his conservative ideology.
So he calls in the Federal militia to handle his deadly f*ckup.
http://www.samefacts.com/2016/01/domestic-politics/rick-snyder-republican-hero/
Obama should have said no to that request and instead ordered military weaponry sent to arm Flint every resident against any further interference of any kind from the Governor and his nest of free-market murderers in the State House.
But, no, Obama bends over backwards to save Republican ass and what will he get for it.
Hatred from Republican subhuman scum across the country.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-17-destroying-the-domestic-gray-zone/
I’m thinking of going bird watching at the Malheur and on other public lands where Republicans run their livestock without paying the bills:
I’ll be arriving well-equipped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU
Who knew Tacitus is a Russian agent?
Here’s the late KrisAnne Hall, mentioned in the first link. She’s one of those anti-American radio talk show aliens who will stop talking soon.
https://www.youtube.com/user/krisannehall1
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-17-destroying-the-domestic-gray-zone/
I’m thinking of going bird watching at the Malheur and on other public lands where Republicans run their livestock without paying the bills:
I’ll be arriving well-equipped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU
Who knew Tacitus is a Russian agent?
Here’s the late KrisAnne Hall, mentioned in the first link. She’s one of those anti-American radio talk show aliens who will stop talking soon.
https://www.youtube.com/user/krisannehall1
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/18/balloon-juice-bunker-standoff-day-17-destroying-the-domestic-gray-zone/
I’m thinking of going bird watching at the Malheur and on other public lands where Republicans run their livestock without paying the bills:
I’ll be arriving well-equipped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU
Who knew Tacitus is a Russian agent?
Here’s the late KrisAnne Hall, mentioned in the first link. She’s one of those anti-American radio talk show aliens who will stop talking soon.
https://www.youtube.com/user/krisannehall1
Turns out FPSRussia in the gun video is a cracker from Georgia, the foreign one just above Florida, not the one in Back In The USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FPSRussia
Turns out FPSRussia in the gun video is a cracker from Georgia, the foreign one just above Florida, not the one in Back In The USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FPSRussia
Turns out FPSRussia in the gun video is a cracker from Georgia, the foreign one just above Florida, not the one in Back In The USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FPSRussia
This is probably the best thing I’ve seen about why Trump appeals to so many. I got the link from Dreher ( whose blog is worth reading for the links alone, whatever one might think about his views).
I don’t completely agree with this piece– I think he downplays the bigotry in Trump’s appeal a bit, but most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech.
http://theweek.com/articles/599577/how-obscure-adviser-pat-buchanan-predicted-wild-trump-campaign-1996
This is probably the best thing I’ve seen about why Trump appeals to so many. I got the link from Dreher ( whose blog is worth reading for the links alone, whatever one might think about his views).
I don’t completely agree with this piece– I think he downplays the bigotry in Trump’s appeal a bit, but most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech.
http://theweek.com/articles/599577/how-obscure-adviser-pat-buchanan-predicted-wild-trump-campaign-1996
This is probably the best thing I’ve seen about why Trump appeals to so many. I got the link from Dreher ( whose blog is worth reading for the links alone, whatever one might think about his views).
I don’t completely agree with this piece– I think he downplays the bigotry in Trump’s appeal a bit, but most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech.
http://theweek.com/articles/599577/how-obscure-adviser-pat-buchanan-predicted-wild-trump-campaign-1996
Dreher might think he downplayed Trump’s appeal to the base’s bigotry in every sense of the word, but as soon as he mentions Samuel Francis/Buchanan, he concedes the point for all to see.
Good find, dj.
I have it on solid background that instead of having little boxes to check to register votes, the Republican Presidential primary ballot will feature dick pics for each of the candidates that can be circled.
It’s how Putin won too.
Dreher might think he downplayed Trump’s appeal to the base’s bigotry in every sense of the word, but as soon as he mentions Samuel Francis/Buchanan, he concedes the point for all to see.
Good find, dj.
I have it on solid background that instead of having little boxes to check to register votes, the Republican Presidential primary ballot will feature dick pics for each of the candidates that can be circled.
It’s how Putin won too.
Dreher might think he downplayed Trump’s appeal to the base’s bigotry in every sense of the word, but as soon as he mentions Samuel Francis/Buchanan, he concedes the point for all to see.
Good find, dj.
I have it on solid background that instead of having little boxes to check to register votes, the Republican Presidential primary ballot will feature dick pics for each of the candidates that can be circled.
It’s how Putin won too.
My limited historical understanding is that this has been a longstanding problem with populism in the US. People have legitimate grievances against various elites and their policies and then these grievances often get tied in with bigotry against some ethnic or religious scapegoats.
My limited historical understanding is that this has been a longstanding problem with populism in the US. People have legitimate grievances against various elites and their policies and then these grievances often get tied in with bigotry against some ethnic or religious scapegoats.
My limited historical understanding is that this has been a longstanding problem with populism in the US. People have legitimate grievances against various elites and their policies and then these grievances often get tied in with bigotry against some ethnic or religious scapegoats.
Reading DJ’s link, I find what feels like a perverse agreement with some of the underlying ideas (if that’s what they are) of Trump’s campaign. Putting aside the racism and xenophobia (I know, that’s not easy, but I’m not turning into a Trump supporter here, either) and looking at the generalities of the economics, I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
(And now that I wrote that, I realize I’m writing a restatement of part of Donald’s comment containing the link. Before reading the piece, I took Donald’s statement that “most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech” as a description of a criticism of Trump coming from Sanders, not that the description of Trump’s economic ideas could just as easily apply to Sanders’. I’m going to let it stand, regardless of any redundancy.)
Reading DJ’s link, I find what feels like a perverse agreement with some of the underlying ideas (if that’s what they are) of Trump’s campaign. Putting aside the racism and xenophobia (I know, that’s not easy, but I’m not turning into a Trump supporter here, either) and looking at the generalities of the economics, I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
(And now that I wrote that, I realize I’m writing a restatement of part of Donald’s comment containing the link. Before reading the piece, I took Donald’s statement that “most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech” as a description of a criticism of Trump coming from Sanders, not that the description of Trump’s economic ideas could just as easily apply to Sanders’. I’m going to let it stand, regardless of any redundancy.)
Reading DJ’s link, I find what feels like a perverse agreement with some of the underlying ideas (if that’s what they are) of Trump’s campaign. Putting aside the racism and xenophobia (I know, that’s not easy, but I’m not turning into a Trump supporter here, either) and looking at the generalities of the economics, I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
(And now that I wrote that, I realize I’m writing a restatement of part of Donald’s comment containing the link. Before reading the piece, I took Donald’s statement that “most of what he writes could be part of a Sanders speech” as a description of a criticism of Trump coming from Sanders, not that the description of Trump’s economic ideas could just as easily apply to Sanders’. I’m going to let it stand, regardless of any redundancy.)
So I’m going scale back my earlier question to Marty about whether he was smoking crack. I still think he overstated the case, but not as much as I once did. I would retroactively like to replace “crack” with “weed” (and not any of that crazy stuff coming out of places like Colorado these day – just the regular, old-school weed people used to smoke 20 years ago).
So I’m going scale back my earlier question to Marty about whether he was smoking crack. I still think he overstated the case, but not as much as I once did. I would retroactively like to replace “crack” with “weed” (and not any of that crazy stuff coming out of places like Colorado these day – just the regular, old-school weed people used to smoke 20 years ago).
So I’m going scale back my earlier question to Marty about whether he was smoking crack. I still think he overstated the case, but not as much as I once did. I would retroactively like to replace “crack” with “weed” (and not any of that crazy stuff coming out of places like Colorado these day – just the regular, old-school weed people used to smoke 20 years ago).
I’m not going to credit Trump with having ideas, but the way I read the link, Trump’s appeal to white people isn’t just his racism, but the anger he channels against policies that hurt them. Most of them probably wouldn’t vote for Sanders, but some of their grievances are the ones that Sanders speaks to.
I’m not going to credit Trump with having ideas, but the way I read the link, Trump’s appeal to white people isn’t just his racism, but the anger he channels against policies that hurt them. Most of them probably wouldn’t vote for Sanders, but some of their grievances are the ones that Sanders speaks to.
I’m not going to credit Trump with having ideas, but the way I read the link, Trump’s appeal to white people isn’t just his racism, but the anger he channels against policies that hurt them. Most of them probably wouldn’t vote for Sanders, but some of their grievances are the ones that Sanders speaks to.
There has not been any regular old school weed since 1976. The Feds poisoned the Mexican crop and the next month every pot dealer was selling Columbian at $50 an oz, instead of dirtweed at $10 an oz. Pot became a dime drug, sold by the joint and cocaine became a competitive drug setting up the crack epidemic. We went fake acid made out of pcp, white crosses to meth, and the barbiturates have now come full circle back cheap prescription drugs sold in nightclubs.
Some war.
And pot isn’t nearly as fun as when it made you laugh and tasted great with Boones Farm Apple Wine while listening to albums played by the late night fm jocks.
There has not been any regular old school weed since 1976. The Feds poisoned the Mexican crop and the next month every pot dealer was selling Columbian at $50 an oz, instead of dirtweed at $10 an oz. Pot became a dime drug, sold by the joint and cocaine became a competitive drug setting up the crack epidemic. We went fake acid made out of pcp, white crosses to meth, and the barbiturates have now come full circle back cheap prescription drugs sold in nightclubs.
Some war.
And pot isn’t nearly as fun as when it made you laugh and tasted great with Boones Farm Apple Wine while listening to albums played by the late night fm jocks.
There has not been any regular old school weed since 1976. The Feds poisoned the Mexican crop and the next month every pot dealer was selling Columbian at $50 an oz, instead of dirtweed at $10 an oz. Pot became a dime drug, sold by the joint and cocaine became a competitive drug setting up the crack epidemic. We went fake acid made out of pcp, white crosses to meth, and the barbiturates have now come full circle back cheap prescription drugs sold in nightclubs.
Some war.
And pot isn’t nearly as fun as when it made you laugh and tasted great with Boones Farm Apple Wine while listening to albums played by the late night fm jocks.
I’m picturing a primer-grey Camaro sitting in the driveway.
I’m picturing a primer-grey Camaro sitting in the driveway.
I’m picturing a primer-grey Camaro sitting in the driveway.
I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
Indeed. But it strikes me that these ‘victims’ as it were (and yes, they are victims), began to forget who the enemy really was, starting, natch’, in the late 60’s, as they piled into the culture & race wars, and disregarded the class war.
And now they are angry to find that they have lost the latter, as well as the former.
I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
Indeed. But it strikes me that these ‘victims’ as it were (and yes, they are victims), began to forget who the enemy really was, starting, natch’, in the late 60’s, as they piled into the culture & race wars, and disregarded the class war.
And now they are angry to find that they have lost the latter, as well as the former.
I see more overlap with Sanders than I ever thought possible.
Indeed. But it strikes me that these ‘victims’ as it were (and yes, they are victims), began to forget who the enemy really was, starting, natch’, in the late 60’s, as they piled into the culture & race wars, and disregarded the class war.
And now they are angry to find that they have lost the latter, as well as the former.
$10 lids. Those were the days.
$10 lids. Those were the days.
$10 lids. Those were the days.
the hood, roof and front quarter panel, the rest is bright yellow
the hood, roof and front quarter panel, the rest is bright yellow
the hood, roof and front quarter panel, the rest is bright yellow
This pretty much fingers the American train wreck:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/video/these-7-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths/vi-BBoqPaZ
This pretty much fingers the American train wreck:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/video/these-7-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths/vi-BBoqPaZ
This pretty much fingers the American train wreck:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/video/these-7-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths/vi-BBoqPaZ
Bernard DeVoto, 1947, writing of the American West for Harpers:
The Cattle Kingdom never did own more than a minute fraction of one per cent of the range it grazed: it was national domain, it belonged to the people of the United States. They do not own the range now: mostly it belongs to you and me, and since the fees they pay for using public land are much smaller than those they pay for using private land, those fees are in effect one of a number of subsidies we pay them. But they always acted as if they owned the public range and act so now; they convinced themselves that it belonged to them and now believe it does; and they are trying to take title to it.
Some things never change.
Bernard DeVoto, 1947, writing of the American West for Harpers:
The Cattle Kingdom never did own more than a minute fraction of one per cent of the range it grazed: it was national domain, it belonged to the people of the United States. They do not own the range now: mostly it belongs to you and me, and since the fees they pay for using public land are much smaller than those they pay for using private land, those fees are in effect one of a number of subsidies we pay them. But they always acted as if they owned the public range and act so now; they convinced themselves that it belonged to them and now believe it does; and they are trying to take title to it.
Some things never change.
Bernard DeVoto, 1947, writing of the American West for Harpers:
The Cattle Kingdom never did own more than a minute fraction of one per cent of the range it grazed: it was national domain, it belonged to the people of the United States. They do not own the range now: mostly it belongs to you and me, and since the fees they pay for using public land are much smaller than those they pay for using private land, those fees are in effect one of a number of subsidies we pay them. But they always acted as if they owned the public range and act so now; they convinced themselves that it belonged to them and now believe it does; and they are trying to take title to it.
Some things never change.
quote above cribbed from this article.
quote above cribbed from this article.
quote above cribbed from this article.
It’s mating season for Christian conservatives:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/blaine-cooper-oregon-battle-trumpets
It’s mating season for Christian conservatives:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/blaine-cooper-oregon-battle-trumpets
It’s mating season for Christian conservatives:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/blaine-cooper-oregon-battle-trumpets
if I’m not mistaken, those are shofars.
the militiamen appear to have been misinformed.
if I’m not mistaken, those are shofars.
the militiamen appear to have been misinformed.
if I’m not mistaken, those are shofars.
the militiamen appear to have been misinformed.
A misinformed militiaman?
That’s what George Washington thought too.
A misinformed militiaman?
That’s what George Washington thought too.
A misinformed militiaman?
That’s what George Washington thought too.
Good timing.
But par for the course for subhuman Republican filth:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/track-palin-arrested-domestic-violence
Good timing.
But par for the course for subhuman Republican filth:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/track-palin-arrested-domestic-violence
Good timing.
But par for the course for subhuman Republican filth:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/track-palin-arrested-domestic-violence
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/donald-trump-preaches-to-liberty-university.html#
Am I at a loss for words?
No.
I predict that within two years there will be violence and killing in this country unlike anyone has ever imagined.
Exponentially more savage in numbers than the Civil War.
Who will win?
The vermin who are armed to the teeth.
F$ck the Republican Party.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/donald-trump-preaches-to-liberty-university.html#
Am I at a loss for words?
No.
I predict that within two years there will be violence and killing in this country unlike anyone has ever imagined.
Exponentially more savage in numbers than the Civil War.
Who will win?
The vermin who are armed to the teeth.
F$ck the Republican Party.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/donald-trump-preaches-to-liberty-university.html#
Am I at a loss for words?
No.
I predict that within two years there will be violence and killing in this country unlike anyone has ever imagined.
Exponentially more savage in numbers than the Civil War.
Who will win?
The vermin who are armed to the teeth.
F$ck the Republican Party.
In other GOP news:
Big Chicken protects 2nd Amendment rights of NJ carjackers.
Was he hoping to get himself endorsed by Princess Dumbass of the North Woods at the last minute?
–TP
In other GOP news:
Big Chicken protects 2nd Amendment rights of NJ carjackers.
Was he hoping to get himself endorsed by Princess Dumbass of the North Woods at the last minute?
–TP
In other GOP news:
Big Chicken protects 2nd Amendment rights of NJ carjackers.
Was he hoping to get himself endorsed by Princess Dumbass of the North Woods at the last minute?
–TP
Looks like ISIS fighters are getting taken to the cleaners by Obama:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-terrorists-big-pay-cut-194600760.html
ISIS runs their business just like Milton Friedman would. When in doubt, f*ck the rank and file.
Looks like ISIS fighters are getting taken to the cleaners by Obama:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-terrorists-big-pay-cut-194600760.html
ISIS runs their business just like Milton Friedman would. When in doubt, f*ck the rank and file.
Looks like ISIS fighters are getting taken to the cleaners by Obama:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-terrorists-big-pay-cut-194600760.html
ISIS runs their business just like Milton Friedman would. When in doubt, f*ck the rank and file.
Why are conservatives so crotch-centric?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rick-wilson-donald-trump-single-men
However, if you line-up the conservative harridans — Phylis Schafly, Sarah Death Panel, Ann Coulter (speaking of anime?) the entire roster of haranguing, dyspeptic, inquisitional FOX vituperatives, Ayn Rand, Michelle Malkin, and Erick Erickson, for example, we can understand why the red-blooded male conservative base spends so much time alone exploring electoral alternatives.
Are we about to see a split among ridiculous revolutionary Republicans regarding the locus of constitutionally-guaranteed masturbation, with the fed-up frightened white male base taking the position that rubbing one out and onanism should be the responsibility and province of private individuals, acting for their own self-fulfillment and in their self-interest, and the more traditional establishment conservatives assuming Tench Coxe’s position (which requires some flexibility) that any fun to be had with the guns of Naverone should be pursued within militant militias coming together for the good of the country every 20 minutes in corporate-led circle jerks?
You can’t make this stuff up, so I didn’t.
Surely the Founders must have addressed these weighty issues.
What say Corinthians?
Is it better to cast thy seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground and then hide the rape kits and eradicate Planned Parenthood, not to mention preventing the EPA from regulating all-point conservative source pollution?
Why are conservatives so crotch-centric?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rick-wilson-donald-trump-single-men
However, if you line-up the conservative harridans — Phylis Schafly, Sarah Death Panel, Ann Coulter (speaking of anime?) the entire roster of haranguing, dyspeptic, inquisitional FOX vituperatives, Ayn Rand, Michelle Malkin, and Erick Erickson, for example, we can understand why the red-blooded male conservative base spends so much time alone exploring electoral alternatives.
Are we about to see a split among ridiculous revolutionary Republicans regarding the locus of constitutionally-guaranteed masturbation, with the fed-up frightened white male base taking the position that rubbing one out and onanism should be the responsibility and province of private individuals, acting for their own self-fulfillment and in their self-interest, and the more traditional establishment conservatives assuming Tench Coxe’s position (which requires some flexibility) that any fun to be had with the guns of Naverone should be pursued within militant militias coming together for the good of the country every 20 minutes in corporate-led circle jerks?
You can’t make this stuff up, so I didn’t.
Surely the Founders must have addressed these weighty issues.
What say Corinthians?
Is it better to cast thy seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground and then hide the rape kits and eradicate Planned Parenthood, not to mention preventing the EPA from regulating all-point conservative source pollution?
Why are conservatives so crotch-centric?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rick-wilson-donald-trump-single-men
However, if you line-up the conservative harridans — Phylis Schafly, Sarah Death Panel, Ann Coulter (speaking of anime?) the entire roster of haranguing, dyspeptic, inquisitional FOX vituperatives, Ayn Rand, Michelle Malkin, and Erick Erickson, for example, we can understand why the red-blooded male conservative base spends so much time alone exploring electoral alternatives.
Are we about to see a split among ridiculous revolutionary Republicans regarding the locus of constitutionally-guaranteed masturbation, with the fed-up frightened white male base taking the position that rubbing one out and onanism should be the responsibility and province of private individuals, acting for their own self-fulfillment and in their self-interest, and the more traditional establishment conservatives assuming Tench Coxe’s position (which requires some flexibility) that any fun to be had with the guns of Naverone should be pursued within militant militias coming together for the good of the country every 20 minutes in corporate-led circle jerks?
You can’t make this stuff up, so I didn’t.
Surely the Founders must have addressed these weighty issues.
What say Corinthians?
Is it better to cast thy seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground and then hide the rape kits and eradicate Planned Parenthood, not to mention preventing the EPA from regulating all-point conservative source pollution?
Just for the word “squirmishes”, this is worth a read:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum
Flush out all the ignoramuses and get them in one place where they can be seen in plain view.
https://www.google.com/search?q=looking+thru+a+gun+sight&tbm=isch&imgil=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%253B8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.thepeoplesvoice.org%25252FTPV3%25252FVoices.php%25252F2011%25252F01%25252F17%25252Flooking-backwards-through-the-gun-sight&source=iu&pf=m&fir=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%252C8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=913&ved=0ahUKEwizuJCe2bjKAhXEtYMKHUuVD_YQyjcILg&ei=l6afVvOQOsTrjgTLqr6wDw
I’d say there are 50 million of them.
Just for the word “squirmishes”, this is worth a read:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum
Flush out all the ignoramuses and get them in one place where they can be seen in plain view.
https://www.google.com/search?q=looking+thru+a+gun+sight&tbm=isch&imgil=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%253B8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.thepeoplesvoice.org%25252FTPV3%25252FVoices.php%25252F2011%25252F01%25252F17%25252Flooking-backwards-through-the-gun-sight&source=iu&pf=m&fir=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%252C8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=913&ved=0ahUKEwizuJCe2bjKAhXEtYMKHUuVD_YQyjcILg&ei=l6afVvOQOsTrjgTLqr6wDw
I’d say there are 50 million of them.
Just for the word “squirmishes”, this is worth a read:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum
Flush out all the ignoramuses and get them in one place where they can be seen in plain view.
https://www.google.com/search?q=looking+thru+a+gun+sight&tbm=isch&imgil=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%253B8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.thepeoplesvoice.org%25252FTPV3%25252FVoices.php%25252F2011%25252F01%25252F17%25252Flooking-backwards-through-the-gun-sight&source=iu&pf=m&fir=DSgqA0rfksH-NM%253A%252C8zBAdB9uxAVpLM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=913&ved=0ahUKEwizuJCe2bjKAhXEtYMKHUuVD_YQyjcILg&ei=l6afVvOQOsTrjgTLqr6wDw
I’d say there are 50 million of them.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/will-the-oregon-militiamen-ever-be-brought-to-justice
I agree that it’s good that bloodshed has been avoided.
That said, if Cliven Bundy and sons and acolytes were black citizens, they’d have been gunned down from behind some time ago.
Full of sh*t — the entire kaboodle from stem to stern, fore and aft.
Law and order, my ass.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/will-the-oregon-militiamen-ever-be-brought-to-justice
I agree that it’s good that bloodshed has been avoided.
That said, if Cliven Bundy and sons and acolytes were black citizens, they’d have been gunned down from behind some time ago.
Full of sh*t — the entire kaboodle from stem to stern, fore and aft.
Law and order, my ass.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/will-the-oregon-militiamen-ever-be-brought-to-justice
I agree that it’s good that bloodshed has been avoided.
That said, if Cliven Bundy and sons and acolytes were black citizens, they’d have been gunned down from behind some time ago.
Full of sh*t — the entire kaboodle from stem to stern, fore and aft.
Law and order, my ass.
Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.
You know perfectly well that “law and order”, when used in a political context, means the same as it always has: “enforce the laws that I approve of against people who are not me.”
Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.
You know perfectly well that “law and order”, when used in a political context, means the same as it always has: “enforce the laws that I approve of against people who are not me.”
Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.
You know perfectly well that “law and order”, when used in a political context, means the same as it always has: “enforce the laws that I approve of against people who are not me.”
“Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.”
Odd, that’s exactly the advice my high school rifle team coach gave me for trigger control.
I’m perfectly calm, really.
My blood pressure is 741 over 517. In “squirmish” territory, but within the parameters of going batsh*t over incipient fascism.
What’s the problem, exactly?
wj, you’ll give us a heads-up a day or two before you push the panic button, won’t you?
Whites of the eyes and all that. %-?
“Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.”
Odd, that’s exactly the advice my high school rifle team coach gave me for trigger control.
I’m perfectly calm, really.
My blood pressure is 741 over 517. In “squirmish” territory, but within the parameters of going batsh*t over incipient fascism.
What’s the problem, exactly?
wj, you’ll give us a heads-up a day or two before you push the panic button, won’t you?
Whites of the eyes and all that. %-?
“Slow, deep breaths, Count, slow deep breaths.”
Odd, that’s exactly the advice my high school rifle team coach gave me for trigger control.
I’m perfectly calm, really.
My blood pressure is 741 over 517. In “squirmish” territory, but within the parameters of going batsh*t over incipient fascism.
What’s the problem, exactly?
wj, you’ll give us a heads-up a day or two before you push the panic button, won’t you?
Whites of the eyes and all that. %-?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-nugent-clinton-obama-treason-benghazi
The way I see it, that’s four fewer U.S. Government employees Nugent and his anti-American pigf*cking crew will have to shoot in the head during the coming murderous civil war they are about to start on American soil.
As for what’s coming to murderer Nugent, I predict:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vel-OeI_bgk
His fans can hold a memorial for him before we hunt them down too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-nugent-clinton-obama-treason-benghazi
The way I see it, that’s four fewer U.S. Government employees Nugent and his anti-American pigf*cking crew will have to shoot in the head during the coming murderous civil war they are about to start on American soil.
As for what’s coming to murderer Nugent, I predict:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vel-OeI_bgk
His fans can hold a memorial for him before we hunt them down too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-nugent-clinton-obama-treason-benghazi
The way I see it, that’s four fewer U.S. Government employees Nugent and his anti-American pigf*cking crew will have to shoot in the head during the coming murderous civil war they are about to start on American soil.
As for what’s coming to murderer Nugent, I predict:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vel-OeI_bgk
His fans can hold a memorial for him before we hunt them down too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/20/right-wing-and-bitter-right-wing-and-bitter/
Markets react, as they see the tide of blood rising on America’s fascist horizon:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=djia&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=8
As markets crash, the more so-called Americans will rush into the clutches of fascism.
Fear begets fear begets killing.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/20/right-wing-and-bitter-right-wing-and-bitter/
Markets react, as they see the tide of blood rising on America’s fascist horizon:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=djia&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=8
As markets crash, the more so-called Americans will rush into the clutches of fascism.
Fear begets fear begets killing.
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/01/20/right-wing-and-bitter-right-wing-and-bitter/
Markets react, as they see the tide of blood rising on America’s fascist horizon:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=djia&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=8
As markets crash, the more so-called Americans will rush into the clutches of fascism.
Fear begets fear begets killing.
Hey, maybe Trump will decide to give Palin another shot at the VP.
Nah, probably not. If he gets the nomination, he will be trying to win. And he’s bright enough to realize what a loser that would be.
Hey, maybe Trump will decide to give Palin another shot at the VP.
Nah, probably not. If he gets the nomination, he will be trying to win. And he’s bright enough to realize what a loser that would be.
Hey, maybe Trump will decide to give Palin another shot at the VP.
Nah, probably not. If he gets the nomination, he will be trying to win. And he’s bright enough to realize what a loser that would be.
wj, Palin would never accept the 2nd fiddle job again. She’d hold out for Trump declaring her Queen of America.
Probably after a pageant in Atlantic City.
wj, Palin would never accept the 2nd fiddle job again. She’d hold out for Trump declaring her Queen of America.
Probably after a pageant in Atlantic City.
wj, Palin would never accept the 2nd fiddle job again. She’d hold out for Trump declaring her Queen of America.
Probably after a pageant in Atlantic City.
Another subhuman crazy Republican murderer throws in with his fascist candidate:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/glen-beck-to-campaign-with-ted-cruz
Another subhuman crazy Republican murderer throws in with his fascist candidate:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/glen-beck-to-campaign-with-ted-cruz
Another subhuman crazy Republican murderer throws in with his fascist candidate:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/glen-beck-to-campaign-with-ted-cruz
Nah. Palin is too old to get tapped as the next Mrs Trump.
Nah. Palin is too old to get tapped as the next Mrs Trump.
Nah. Palin is too old to get tapped as the next Mrs Trump.
Palin blames Obama for her’s sons arrest for attemping to murder his significant other and kill himself with that harmless AR-15, the gun that kills people:
Apparently, Obama didn’t allocate enough of my tax dollars to prevent yet another piece of Palin-clan thug white Republican trash from beating the sh*t out of someone.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/palin-domestic-violence-arrest-ptsd
That her reptilian Republican spawn once fed off her poisonous teats is apparently not under investigation as the cause.
Too bad he didn’t shoot his mother in the face while he was at it.
Palin blames Obama for her’s sons arrest for attemping to murder his significant other and kill himself with that harmless AR-15, the gun that kills people:
Apparently, Obama didn’t allocate enough of my tax dollars to prevent yet another piece of Palin-clan thug white Republican trash from beating the sh*t out of someone.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/palin-domestic-violence-arrest-ptsd
That her reptilian Republican spawn once fed off her poisonous teats is apparently not under investigation as the cause.
Too bad he didn’t shoot his mother in the face while he was at it.
Palin blames Obama for her’s sons arrest for attemping to murder his significant other and kill himself with that harmless AR-15, the gun that kills people:
Apparently, Obama didn’t allocate enough of my tax dollars to prevent yet another piece of Palin-clan thug white Republican trash from beating the sh*t out of someone.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/palin-domestic-violence-arrest-ptsd
That her reptilian Republican spawn once fed off her poisonous teats is apparently not under investigation as the cause.
Too bad he didn’t shoot his mother in the face while he was at it.
Flint, Michigan homeless shelter relies on bottled water to weather water crisis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfFVnhWlLA
Michigan Governor and Michigan Republican House Rep/Constitutional Scholar Justin Amash suggest feeding the homeless raw sewage because its cheaper than bottled water.
Plus it saves upper bracket tax money by using human subjects, instead of those governmenty, sciency sewage treatment facilities, to filter the sewage.
Wealthy Republican Flint and surrounding-area Michiganers are apparently installing unemployed homeless people in their home water systems to treat their own sewage, thus saving themselves money on government interventionist sewage treatment.
Flint, Michigan homeless shelter relies on bottled water to weather water crisis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfFVnhWlLA
Michigan Governor and Michigan Republican House Rep/Constitutional Scholar Justin Amash suggest feeding the homeless raw sewage because its cheaper than bottled water.
Plus it saves upper bracket tax money by using human subjects, instead of those governmenty, sciency sewage treatment facilities, to filter the sewage.
Wealthy Republican Flint and surrounding-area Michiganers are apparently installing unemployed homeless people in their home water systems to treat their own sewage, thus saving themselves money on government interventionist sewage treatment.
Flint, Michigan homeless shelter relies on bottled water to weather water crisis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfFVnhWlLA
Michigan Governor and Michigan Republican House Rep/Constitutional Scholar Justin Amash suggest feeding the homeless raw sewage because its cheaper than bottled water.
Plus it saves upper bracket tax money by using human subjects, instead of those governmenty, sciency sewage treatment facilities, to filter the sewage.
Wealthy Republican Flint and surrounding-area Michiganers are apparently installing unemployed homeless people in their home water systems to treat their own sewage, thus saving themselves money on government interventionist sewage treatment.
Conservatives savaging the dying:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/20/1472400/-You-know-the-Breitbart-crew-really-are-sleazy-cretins-as-their-attack-on-climate-scientist-proves
Conservatives savaging the dying:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/20/1472400/-You-know-the-Breitbart-crew-really-are-sleazy-cretins-as-their-attack-on-climate-scientist-proves
Conservatives savaging the dying:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/20/1472400/-You-know-the-Breitbart-crew-really-are-sleazy-cretins-as-their-attack-on-climate-scientist-proves
More crazy filth money behind Cruz:
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2016-01-20/what-kind-of-man-spends-millions-to-elect-ted-cruz-
More crazy filth money behind Cruz:
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2016-01-20/what-kind-of-man-spends-millions-to-elect-ted-cruz-
More crazy filth money behind Cruz:
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2016-01-20/what-kind-of-man-spends-millions-to-elect-ted-cruz-
The money force behind the fascist Republican Party:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/20/dark_money_jane_mayer_on_how
The Nazi/Hitler thread running through the John Birch Koch Family is remarkable. The Koch boys’ (one of Ted Nugent’s early band names) very nanny during the late 1930’s was a Hitler/Nazi devotee, who before returning to Germany to help the Nazi’s murderous causes @1940-41, devoted much time to threatening the four Koch boys with enemas if they did not follow a tight regimen of bowel movements, one regulation conservatives plan to keep for the rest of us.
Then there is this piece of work, Robert LeFevre, who William F. Buckley, himself a racist segregationist, labeled an anarcho-totalitarian, and at whose feet, Charles Koch worshiped in the 1960’s.
The farthest fringes of racist, fascist pigsh*t in America are now the very centerpiece of the Republican Party.
There is only one answer to it.
With that, I’ll shut up for awhile and let others have the floor.
The money force behind the fascist Republican Party:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/20/dark_money_jane_mayer_on_how
The Nazi/Hitler thread running through the John Birch Koch Family is remarkable. The Koch boys’ (one of Ted Nugent’s early band names) very nanny during the late 1930’s was a Hitler/Nazi devotee, who before returning to Germany to help the Nazi’s murderous causes @1940-41, devoted much time to threatening the four Koch boys with enemas if they did not follow a tight regimen of bowel movements, one regulation conservatives plan to keep for the rest of us.
Then there is this piece of work, Robert LeFevre, who William F. Buckley, himself a racist segregationist, labeled an anarcho-totalitarian, and at whose feet, Charles Koch worshiped in the 1960’s.
The farthest fringes of racist, fascist pigsh*t in America are now the very centerpiece of the Republican Party.
There is only one answer to it.
With that, I’ll shut up for awhile and let others have the floor.
The money force behind the fascist Republican Party:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/20/dark_money_jane_mayer_on_how
The Nazi/Hitler thread running through the John Birch Koch Family is remarkable. The Koch boys’ (one of Ted Nugent’s early band names) very nanny during the late 1930’s was a Hitler/Nazi devotee, who before returning to Germany to help the Nazi’s murderous causes @1940-41, devoted much time to threatening the four Koch boys with enemas if they did not follow a tight regimen of bowel movements, one regulation conservatives plan to keep for the rest of us.
Then there is this piece of work, Robert LeFevre, who William F. Buckley, himself a racist segregationist, labeled an anarcho-totalitarian, and at whose feet, Charles Koch worshiped in the 1960’s.
The farthest fringes of racist, fascist pigsh*t in America are now the very centerpiece of the Republican Party.
There is only one answer to it.
With that, I’ll shut up for awhile and let others have the floor.