Terroristic Threats Closing Schools on Election Day

by Ugh

OMG, you mean people are taking you srsly?

Many of the schools across America that house polling booths will not be open on Election Day for the first time after parents raised fears over violence.

And what's a little harmless hanging in effigy and heads on pikes between friends, no?

An effigy depicting Hillary Clinton with a noose around her neck dangled above the crowd cheering on a Donald Trump rally in North Carolina on Wednesday….Earlier this week, Trump supporters took a model of Clinton's head and mounted it on a stake.

Meanwhile, former GOP (surprise!) Congresspersonthing and low rent a$$ hat coward* Joe Walsh (and deadbeat dad to boot – party of family values!) tweeted "On November 8th, I’m voting for Trump. On November 9th, if Trump loses, I’m grabbing my musket. You in?"  But it's just civil disobedience, he says, wink wink nudge nudge say no more!

This has caused me to wonder, his cowardly walking back notwithstanding, exactly who are you going to threaten and – if things go the way you clearly want them to – shoot with that musket?  Are you going to march on the White House?  City hall?  Go out Zimmermanning?  I mean, there are going to have been 65,000,000+ people that voted for Hillary by the time November 8 ends, are you going after them to get "your" country back and defend your fever dream version of the U.S. Constitution?  No, fnck you.

More broadly, this is the inevitable result of the national GOP constant de-legitimizing Democratic Presidents dating back to (I'm guessing) at least Carter, having reached its zenith with Obama and the birthers, and the widespread voter fraud propaganda based on lies with the goal of providing a fig leaf for the purposeful disenfranchisement of African American voters (it's 2016, do you know where your Jim Crow is?  How many GOP congressional votes do you think the 24th Amendment would get were it proposed in Congress today?).  Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, and empty suited boy wonder* Marco Rubio – all Trump voters and endorsers, lest it be forgotten, you need to be out on the stump repudiating all this sh1t, but you're not because you're' worried about being re-elected.  tl;dr for this paragraph – Trump is the natural result of a GOP base that has been catered to by the "elites" and not some kind of Mule-like aberration.  

And don't get me started on this nascent movement to block any and all Clinton SCOTUS nominees, per rat-faced crap weasel* Ted Cruz.  What happened to the oh so very principled position of letting the people have their say on the SCOTUS nominee via the Presidential election?  Oh, you made that sh1t up on the fly on a weekend, of course you did.

Misogyny, also, too.

*Yes it's very substantive name calling, bite me.

597 thoughts on “Terroristic Threats Closing Schools on Election Day”

  1. I’m more worried aobut voter suppression than I am violence. To me the real harm of Trump’s false claims of voter fraud is that no one will believe reports of real voter suppression.
    The main reason why I think it is essential to elect Democrats is to get judges that will protect voting rights. Otherwise the Republicans succeed in their goal to make us a banana republic with meaningless elections.
    I just hope she doesn’t get us in to deep in Syria.

    Reply
  2. I’m more worried aobut voter suppression than I am violence. To me the real harm of Trump’s false claims of voter fraud is that no one will believe reports of real voter suppression.
    The main reason why I think it is essential to elect Democrats is to get judges that will protect voting rights. Otherwise the Republicans succeed in their goal to make us a banana republic with meaningless elections.
    I just hope she doesn’t get us in to deep in Syria.

    Reply
  3. I’m more worried aobut voter suppression than I am violence. To me the real harm of Trump’s false claims of voter fraud is that no one will believe reports of real voter suppression.
    The main reason why I think it is essential to elect Democrats is to get judges that will protect voting rights. Otherwise the Republicans succeed in their goal to make us a banana republic with meaningless elections.
    I just hope she doesn’t get us in to deep in Syria.

    Reply
  4. Voter suppression? I got yer voter suppression right here.
    Of course, it says something about the cutting edge derp that is the Trump campaign that they both think voter suppression is okay and then go on to describe (in the article) what they’re doing as voter suppression that is not really voter suppression, ISTM. But hey, their words, not mine.

    Reply
  5. Voter suppression? I got yer voter suppression right here.
    Of course, it says something about the cutting edge derp that is the Trump campaign that they both think voter suppression is okay and then go on to describe (in the article) what they’re doing as voter suppression that is not really voter suppression, ISTM. But hey, their words, not mine.

    Reply
  6. Voter suppression? I got yer voter suppression right here.
    Of course, it says something about the cutting edge derp that is the Trump campaign that they both think voter suppression is okay and then go on to describe (in the article) what they’re doing as voter suppression that is not really voter suppression, ISTM. But hey, their words, not mine.

    Reply
  7. I don’t want to live in interesting times. Why do humans make life so complicated and strife-ridden? I think that there is something genetic in our species that cannot tolerate contentment. There are so many people who just feel compelled to be power players in ways that are destructive to others and force others to fight back or be shat upon.

    Reply
  8. I don’t want to live in interesting times. Why do humans make life so complicated and strife-ridden? I think that there is something genetic in our species that cannot tolerate contentment. There are so many people who just feel compelled to be power players in ways that are destructive to others and force others to fight back or be shat upon.

    Reply
  9. I don’t want to live in interesting times. Why do humans make life so complicated and strife-ridden? I think that there is something genetic in our species that cannot tolerate contentment. There are so many people who just feel compelled to be power players in ways that are destructive to others and force others to fight back or be shat upon.

    Reply
  10. In Massachusetts, Election Day is usually a school holiday–they use it as a teacher training day, and the absence of classes means they can use classrooms as voting stations.
    It does mean yet another headache for parents who have to arrange for some kind of alternate child care, but it’s not exactly uncommon for the schools to close for holidays that most parents don’t get (Veterans Day is another one, and that’s in the same week this year). I suppose it encourages parents to take Election Day off if they can manage it. The kids don’t get to see democracy in action unless their parents take them to vote.

    Reply
  11. In Massachusetts, Election Day is usually a school holiday–they use it as a teacher training day, and the absence of classes means they can use classrooms as voting stations.
    It does mean yet another headache for parents who have to arrange for some kind of alternate child care, but it’s not exactly uncommon for the schools to close for holidays that most parents don’t get (Veterans Day is another one, and that’s in the same week this year). I suppose it encourages parents to take Election Day off if they can manage it. The kids don’t get to see democracy in action unless their parents take them to vote.

    Reply
  12. In Massachusetts, Election Day is usually a school holiday–they use it as a teacher training day, and the absence of classes means they can use classrooms as voting stations.
    It does mean yet another headache for parents who have to arrange for some kind of alternate child care, but it’s not exactly uncommon for the schools to close for holidays that most parents don’t get (Veterans Day is another one, and that’s in the same week this year). I suppose it encourages parents to take Election Day off if they can manage it. The kids don’t get to see democracy in action unless their parents take them to vote.

    Reply
  13. Ugh, OK the sex ban stuff is funny, but I was mainly talking about the how you should beat wives and children part.

    Reply
  14. Ugh, OK the sex ban stuff is funny, but I was mainly talking about the how you should beat wives and children part.

    Reply
  15. Ugh, OK the sex ban stuff is funny, but I was mainly talking about the how you should beat wives and children part.

    Reply
  16. Thanks very much for this Ugh, I hate to have been so gullible and will keep in mind to check with snopes for future sensational claims. But I notice they only really debunk the reverse-lysistrata aspect, and don’t seem to mention the part about beating wives. Perhaps that really is a part of fundamentalist Christian belief.

    Reply
  17. Thanks very much for this Ugh, I hate to have been so gullible and will keep in mind to check with snopes for future sensational claims. But I notice they only really debunk the reverse-lysistrata aspect, and don’t seem to mention the part about beating wives. Perhaps that really is a part of fundamentalist Christian belief.

    Reply
  18. Thanks very much for this Ugh, I hate to have been so gullible and will keep in mind to check with snopes for future sensational claims. But I notice they only really debunk the reverse-lysistrata aspect, and don’t seem to mention the part about beating wives. Perhaps that really is a part of fundamentalist Christian belief.

    Reply
  19. Newslo is maybe the most annoying of those “satire” sites that are really just spreading one unfunny hoax after another. Their hoaxes are particularly virulent because they’re always built around a core of a true story, and the reveal provided by their “show facts” button goes away if somebody else just cuts and pastes the text.

    Reply
  20. Newslo is maybe the most annoying of those “satire” sites that are really just spreading one unfunny hoax after another. Their hoaxes are particularly virulent because they’re always built around a core of a true story, and the reveal provided by their “show facts” button goes away if somebody else just cuts and pastes the text.

    Reply
  21. Newslo is maybe the most annoying of those “satire” sites that are really just spreading one unfunny hoax after another. Their hoaxes are particularly virulent because they’re always built around a core of a true story, and the reveal provided by their “show facts” button goes away if somebody else just cuts and pastes the text.

    Reply
  22. let’s take this [Kansas] puppy national!
    I’m trying to picture a Republican governor, any Republican governor, looking at Brownback’s popularity numbers and saying “Hey, I gotta get me some of this!” These guys may be nutty (at least from some perspectives), but they (mostly) aren’t that crazy.

    Reply
  23. let’s take this [Kansas] puppy national!
    I’m trying to picture a Republican governor, any Republican governor, looking at Brownback’s popularity numbers and saying “Hey, I gotta get me some of this!” These guys may be nutty (at least from some perspectives), but they (mostly) aren’t that crazy.

    Reply
  24. let’s take this [Kansas] puppy national!
    I’m trying to picture a Republican governor, any Republican governor, looking at Brownback’s popularity numbers and saying “Hey, I gotta get me some of this!” These guys may be nutty (at least from some perspectives), but they (mostly) aren’t that crazy.

    Reply
  25. Interesting interview with Tony Schwartz (who wrote The Art of the Deal for Trump) on the BBC’s Newsnight, claiming he has already made arrangements to leave the US (I have family in Amsterdam, and have already made the arrangements) should Trump wins, as he fears for his personal safety.
    Q. “Can you think of any redeeming personal qualities he might have ?”
    …pause…
    “No.”

    Reply
  26. Interesting interview with Tony Schwartz (who wrote The Art of the Deal for Trump) on the BBC’s Newsnight, claiming he has already made arrangements to leave the US (I have family in Amsterdam, and have already made the arrangements) should Trump wins, as he fears for his personal safety.
    Q. “Can you think of any redeeming personal qualities he might have ?”
    …pause…
    “No.”

    Reply
  27. Interesting interview with Tony Schwartz (who wrote The Art of the Deal for Trump) on the BBC’s Newsnight, claiming he has already made arrangements to leave the US (I have family in Amsterdam, and have already made the arrangements) should Trump wins, as he fears for his personal safety.
    Q. “Can you think of any redeeming personal qualities he might have ?”
    …pause…
    “No.”

    Reply
  28. Meanwhile, Bundy et al innocent of seizing federal property.
    File under “jury nullification”.
    I guess I’m unclear on what a white man in a cowboy hat has to do to get jail time nowadays.
    Maybe it’s just me.

    Reply
  29. Meanwhile, Bundy et al innocent of seizing federal property.
    File under “jury nullification”.
    I guess I’m unclear on what a white man in a cowboy hat has to do to get jail time nowadays.
    Maybe it’s just me.

    Reply
  30. Meanwhile, Bundy et al innocent of seizing federal property.
    File under “jury nullification”.
    I guess I’m unclear on what a white man in a cowboy hat has to do to get jail time nowadays.
    Maybe it’s just me.

    Reply
  31. Maybe it’s just me.
    Not just you. Shocking, appalling. What’s wrong with Portland? And this:

    In a sign of the high tensions throughout the trial, Ammon Bundy’s lawyer, Marcus R. Mumford, was restrained by four United States Marshals in courtroom tussle after the verdict on Thursday. He was enraged that the Bundys were not being immediately released.

    WTF?

    Reply
  32. Maybe it’s just me.
    Not just you. Shocking, appalling. What’s wrong with Portland? And this:

    In a sign of the high tensions throughout the trial, Ammon Bundy’s lawyer, Marcus R. Mumford, was restrained by four United States Marshals in courtroom tussle after the verdict on Thursday. He was enraged that the Bundys were not being immediately released.

    WTF?

    Reply
  33. Maybe it’s just me.
    Not just you. Shocking, appalling. What’s wrong with Portland? And this:

    In a sign of the high tensions throughout the trial, Ammon Bundy’s lawyer, Marcus R. Mumford, was restrained by four United States Marshals in courtroom tussle after the verdict on Thursday. He was enraged that the Bundys were not being immediately released.

    WTF?

    Reply
  34. An ad from North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr on his Democratic opponent Deborah Ross features a survivor of sexual assault.

    there are several of those ads. some are about gun control (don’t let Ross take away your right to defend yourself from the sexual predators she wants to set free!), some are about her job at the ACLU (Ross thinks sexual predators should have more rights than their victims!), etc.. and they all run every 5 minutes. it’s a deluge.

    Reply
  35. An ad from North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr on his Democratic opponent Deborah Ross features a survivor of sexual assault.

    there are several of those ads. some are about gun control (don’t let Ross take away your right to defend yourself from the sexual predators she wants to set free!), some are about her job at the ACLU (Ross thinks sexual predators should have more rights than their victims!), etc.. and they all run every 5 minutes. it’s a deluge.

    Reply
  36. An ad from North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr on his Democratic opponent Deborah Ross features a survivor of sexual assault.

    there are several of those ads. some are about gun control (don’t let Ross take away your right to defend yourself from the sexual predators she wants to set free!), some are about her job at the ACLU (Ross thinks sexual predators should have more rights than their victims!), etc.. and they all run every 5 minutes. it’s a deluge.

    Reply
  37. Well, at least there’s this consolation:

    Kirk currently trails Duckworth 38.3 percent to 47 percent, according to TPM’s PollTracker Average.

    Reply
  38. Well, at least there’s this consolation:

    Kirk currently trails Duckworth 38.3 percent to 47 percent, according to TPM’s PollTracker Average.

    Reply
  39. Well, at least there’s this consolation:

    Kirk currently trails Duckworth 38.3 percent to 47 percent, according to TPM’s PollTracker Average.

    Reply
  40. Meanwhile, we are getting deluged with Trump campaign ads — yes, the campaign, not a PAC. (Since even they cannot believe they have any chance of taking California, this must be some kind of after-the-election positioning.) The ones which go on and on about all of the things that Clinton (according to them) has lied about.
    I’m not sure if the poor production values are merely massive incompetence. Or if they are trying to send a subliminal message by having all of the imgaes of Clinton look so fuzzy and out of focus….

    Reply
  41. Meanwhile, we are getting deluged with Trump campaign ads — yes, the campaign, not a PAC. (Since even they cannot believe they have any chance of taking California, this must be some kind of after-the-election positioning.) The ones which go on and on about all of the things that Clinton (according to them) has lied about.
    I’m not sure if the poor production values are merely massive incompetence. Or if they are trying to send a subliminal message by having all of the imgaes of Clinton look so fuzzy and out of focus….

    Reply
  42. Meanwhile, we are getting deluged with Trump campaign ads — yes, the campaign, not a PAC. (Since even they cannot believe they have any chance of taking California, this must be some kind of after-the-election positioning.) The ones which go on and on about all of the things that Clinton (according to them) has lied about.
    I’m not sure if the poor production values are merely massive incompetence. Or if they are trying to send a subliminal message by having all of the imgaes of Clinton look so fuzzy and out of focus….

    Reply
  43. I mean, the man is a fncking United States Senator, from Illinois, god knows what kind of thoughts are running through the more southern GOP senators’ heads.* And the GOP wonders why they can’t attract minority voters.
    *Or in their and their staff’s emails….

    Reply
  44. I mean, the man is a fncking United States Senator, from Illinois, god knows what kind of thoughts are running through the more southern GOP senators’ heads.* And the GOP wonders why they can’t attract minority voters.
    *Or in their and their staff’s emails….

    Reply
  45. I mean, the man is a fncking United States Senator, from Illinois, god knows what kind of thoughts are running through the more southern GOP senators’ heads.* And the GOP wonders why they can’t attract minority voters.
    *Or in their and their staff’s emails….

    Reply
  46. As far as Congressional hearings go, I’m disappointed. I fully expected them to start the impeachment process as soon as possible.

    Reply
  47. As far as Congressional hearings go, I’m disappointed. I fully expected them to start the impeachment process as soon as possible.

    Reply
  48. As far as Congressional hearings go, I’m disappointed. I fully expected them to start the impeachment process as soon as possible.

    Reply
  49. But Trump supporters don’t like when snooty liberals say they’re stupid. You just can’t make this stuff up. And by “stuff,” I mean the fact that people will believe the stuff that you can make up, no matter how ridiculous.

    Reply
  50. But Trump supporters don’t like when snooty liberals say they’re stupid. You just can’t make this stuff up. And by “stuff,” I mean the fact that people will believe the stuff that you can make up, no matter how ridiculous.

    Reply
  51. But Trump supporters don’t like when snooty liberals say they’re stupid. You just can’t make this stuff up. And by “stuff,” I mean the fact that people will believe the stuff that you can make up, no matter how ridiculous.

    Reply
  52. In fairness, I googled RealTrueNews and found that they also fooled some people at liberal sites, though not in the same way. No one believed the stories the way alt-right Trump supporters did, but they didn’t realize it was a joke, satirizing bogus right-wing “news sources.” They thought it was just another right-wing “news source.”
    Of course, people here have noted before that it’s getting harder and harder to satirize what is an increasingly ridiculous reality. You can’t turn up to 11 what is already at 11, so I guess it’s forgivable that they didn’t get the joke.

    Reply
  53. In fairness, I googled RealTrueNews and found that they also fooled some people at liberal sites, though not in the same way. No one believed the stories the way alt-right Trump supporters did, but they didn’t realize it was a joke, satirizing bogus right-wing “news sources.” They thought it was just another right-wing “news source.”
    Of course, people here have noted before that it’s getting harder and harder to satirize what is an increasingly ridiculous reality. You can’t turn up to 11 what is already at 11, so I guess it’s forgivable that they didn’t get the joke.

    Reply
  54. In fairness, I googled RealTrueNews and found that they also fooled some people at liberal sites, though not in the same way. No one believed the stories the way alt-right Trump supporters did, but they didn’t realize it was a joke, satirizing bogus right-wing “news sources.” They thought it was just another right-wing “news source.”
    Of course, people here have noted before that it’s getting harder and harder to satirize what is an increasingly ridiculous reality. You can’t turn up to 11 what is already at 11, so I guess it’s forgivable that they didn’t get the joke.

    Reply
  55. In a different context, it might be a game changer. But at this point, there have been so many accusations against Clinton that a new one (even if it turns out to be one of the rare exceptions which actually has some substance behind it) isn’t going to change many minds.
    Those who have always been sure that she was an evil person will consider themselves vindicated (yet again). But they were never supporting her anyway.
    Those who support her have reached the point of reflexively discounting the latest “game changing disaster” to come down the pike. That’s the trouble with being totally indiscriminate in the accusations that you fling about: if you happen on something real, your credability is minimal.
    For a real game changer, the latest e-mails would have to include something that would convince those who are voting for Clinton largely on an against-Trump basis to change. Given that the biggest negative is Trump’s attitudes and behavior towards women, something seriously misogynistic from Clinton or her close staff might do work. But without that, I just can’t see these doing much of anything in the time remaining.

    Reply
  56. In a different context, it might be a game changer. But at this point, there have been so many accusations against Clinton that a new one (even if it turns out to be one of the rare exceptions which actually has some substance behind it) isn’t going to change many minds.
    Those who have always been sure that she was an evil person will consider themselves vindicated (yet again). But they were never supporting her anyway.
    Those who support her have reached the point of reflexively discounting the latest “game changing disaster” to come down the pike. That’s the trouble with being totally indiscriminate in the accusations that you fling about: if you happen on something real, your credability is minimal.
    For a real game changer, the latest e-mails would have to include something that would convince those who are voting for Clinton largely on an against-Trump basis to change. Given that the biggest negative is Trump’s attitudes and behavior towards women, something seriously misogynistic from Clinton or her close staff might do work. But without that, I just can’t see these doing much of anything in the time remaining.

    Reply
  57. In a different context, it might be a game changer. But at this point, there have been so many accusations against Clinton that a new one (even if it turns out to be one of the rare exceptions which actually has some substance behind it) isn’t going to change many minds.
    Those who have always been sure that she was an evil person will consider themselves vindicated (yet again). But they were never supporting her anyway.
    Those who support her have reached the point of reflexively discounting the latest “game changing disaster” to come down the pike. That’s the trouble with being totally indiscriminate in the accusations that you fling about: if you happen on something real, your credability is minimal.
    For a real game changer, the latest e-mails would have to include something that would convince those who are voting for Clinton largely on an against-Trump basis to change. Given that the biggest negative is Trump’s attitudes and behavior towards women, something seriously misogynistic from Clinton or her close staff might do work. But without that, I just can’t see these doing much of anything in the time remaining.

    Reply
  58. as I read the piece, the FBI has as of yet neither re-opened the investigation, nor started a new one.
    nonetheless, this will achieve (has already achieved) the cokie roberts status of being ‘out there’.
    i just want this election to be freaking over, so we can get on with the process of learning to live with either a flaming know-nothing asshole as POTUS, or 4 to 8 years of non-stop ankle-biting bullshit.
    hard to say which would be worse.

    Reply
  59. as I read the piece, the FBI has as of yet neither re-opened the investigation, nor started a new one.
    nonetheless, this will achieve (has already achieved) the cokie roberts status of being ‘out there’.
    i just want this election to be freaking over, so we can get on with the process of learning to live with either a flaming know-nothing asshole as POTUS, or 4 to 8 years of non-stop ankle-biting bullshit.
    hard to say which would be worse.

    Reply
  60. as I read the piece, the FBI has as of yet neither re-opened the investigation, nor started a new one.
    nonetheless, this will achieve (has already achieved) the cokie roberts status of being ‘out there’.
    i just want this election to be freaking over, so we can get on with the process of learning to live with either a flaming know-nothing asshole as POTUS, or 4 to 8 years of non-stop ankle-biting bullshit.
    hard to say which would be worse.

    Reply
  61. Technically, the word for them isn’t “stupid.” It’s “gullible.” Related, perhaps, but quite identical.
    Hey, as the only person here who has been seriously gullible, albeit as a liberal, and in this very thread, I object!
    Although I would like to state for the record, and no doubt some would call me stupid, that even if HRC is found to be guilty of some kind of wrongdoing or even criminality in the matter of the emails, I believe that she would still be a superior President to Trump, both for the US and the World.

    Reply
  62. Technically, the word for them isn’t “stupid.” It’s “gullible.” Related, perhaps, but quite identical.
    Hey, as the only person here who has been seriously gullible, albeit as a liberal, and in this very thread, I object!
    Although I would like to state for the record, and no doubt some would call me stupid, that even if HRC is found to be guilty of some kind of wrongdoing or even criminality in the matter of the emails, I believe that she would still be a superior President to Trump, both for the US and the World.

    Reply
  63. Technically, the word for them isn’t “stupid.” It’s “gullible.” Related, perhaps, but quite identical.
    Hey, as the only person here who has been seriously gullible, albeit as a liberal, and in this very thread, I object!
    Although I would like to state for the record, and no doubt some would call me stupid, that even if HRC is found to be guilty of some kind of wrongdoing or even criminality in the matter of the emails, I believe that she would still be a superior President to Trump, both for the US and the World.

    Reply
  64. This new thing seems to be emails between the two of them from Anthony Wiener and Huma Abedin’s computers. Notwithstanding my completely partisan pro-HRC previous comment, this does look as if there may not be much to it.

    Reply
  65. This new thing seems to be emails between the two of them from Anthony Wiener and Huma Abedin’s computers. Notwithstanding my completely partisan pro-HRC previous comment, this does look as if there may not be much to it.

    Reply
  66. This new thing seems to be emails between the two of them from Anthony Wiener and Huma Abedin’s computers. Notwithstanding my completely partisan pro-HRC previous comment, this does look as if there may not be much to it.

    Reply
  67. “It’s problematic.”
    i hate to break it to you, but in context ‘problematic’ just ain’t a thing.
    a lot of people with money spend a lot of their money to get close to people with power.
    we call that speech.
    yes, i keep making the same point. because it continues to be true.

    Reply
  68. “It’s problematic.”
    i hate to break it to you, but in context ‘problematic’ just ain’t a thing.
    a lot of people with money spend a lot of their money to get close to people with power.
    we call that speech.
    yes, i keep making the same point. because it continues to be true.

    Reply
  69. “It’s problematic.”
    i hate to break it to you, but in context ‘problematic’ just ain’t a thing.
    a lot of people with money spend a lot of their money to get close to people with power.
    we call that speech.
    yes, i keep making the same point. because it continues to be true.

    Reply
  70. Hillary Clinton is not quite the Virgin Mary. Therefore she must be defeated.
    He, Trump is not literally Beelzebub. Therefore He must be elected.
    This is the logic I have heard from a now frighteningly large number of the otherwise-sane engineers I work with — in suburban Boston! It worries me, because I have begun to lose respect for colleagues whose judgement I used to trust. (You might think I’d worry about them losing respect for me, but I have good reason NOT to worry about that.) Trump’s birtherism is not a strike against him, for these people. Why should I need to see His tax returns, they ask. The Clinton Foundation spends 90% of its money on salaries, they mutter darkly. Well, if you believe we have to do something about global warming … they trail off. It’s a fair bet I won’t be working with these particular people over all of the next four years, but even in The Commonwealth, God save it, I will still be living among them. Scary.
    –TP

    Reply
  71. Hillary Clinton is not quite the Virgin Mary. Therefore she must be defeated.
    He, Trump is not literally Beelzebub. Therefore He must be elected.
    This is the logic I have heard from a now frighteningly large number of the otherwise-sane engineers I work with — in suburban Boston! It worries me, because I have begun to lose respect for colleagues whose judgement I used to trust. (You might think I’d worry about them losing respect for me, but I have good reason NOT to worry about that.) Trump’s birtherism is not a strike against him, for these people. Why should I need to see His tax returns, they ask. The Clinton Foundation spends 90% of its money on salaries, they mutter darkly. Well, if you believe we have to do something about global warming … they trail off. It’s a fair bet I won’t be working with these particular people over all of the next four years, but even in The Commonwealth, God save it, I will still be living among them. Scary.
    –TP

    Reply
  72. Hillary Clinton is not quite the Virgin Mary. Therefore she must be defeated.
    He, Trump is not literally Beelzebub. Therefore He must be elected.
    This is the logic I have heard from a now frighteningly large number of the otherwise-sane engineers I work with — in suburban Boston! It worries me, because I have begun to lose respect for colleagues whose judgement I used to trust. (You might think I’d worry about them losing respect for me, but I have good reason NOT to worry about that.) Trump’s birtherism is not a strike against him, for these people. Why should I need to see His tax returns, they ask. The Clinton Foundation spends 90% of its money on salaries, they mutter darkly. Well, if you believe we have to do something about global warming … they trail off. It’s a fair bet I won’t be working with these particular people over all of the next four years, but even in The Commonwealth, God save it, I will still be living among them. Scary.
    –TP

    Reply
  73. Based on the WaPo write-up is sounds like people paid a lot of money for access to Bill. Anything else in it? I will try to read the memo itself later.

    Reply
  74. Based on the WaPo write-up is sounds like people paid a lot of money for access to Bill. Anything else in it? I will try to read the memo itself later.

    Reply
  75. Based on the WaPo write-up is sounds like people paid a lot of money for access to Bill. Anything else in it? I will try to read the memo itself later.

    Reply
  76. My take is that the big deal is that the same guy who solicited donations to the Clinton Foundation also solicited for-profit gigs for Bill. That and that there was a bunch of money involved.
    But I think it was a matter of record who donated to the foundation. I think it was also a matter of record how much income Bill received and from where.
    What I don’t think has surfaced is any actual mingling of foundation money and Bill’s income. It would be one thing if money that was supposed to go to the foundation for charitable purposes went into Bill’s pocket (or to buy a big ole portrait of him).
    The other issue is whether or not anyone got undue consideration in Hillary’s dealings in her official capacities (i.e. quid pro quo). I don’t think that’s been established either.
    All in all, it just sounds like Bill’s been a bit greedy about leveraging his name as a very popular former president.

    Reply
  77. My take is that the big deal is that the same guy who solicited donations to the Clinton Foundation also solicited for-profit gigs for Bill. That and that there was a bunch of money involved.
    But I think it was a matter of record who donated to the foundation. I think it was also a matter of record how much income Bill received and from where.
    What I don’t think has surfaced is any actual mingling of foundation money and Bill’s income. It would be one thing if money that was supposed to go to the foundation for charitable purposes went into Bill’s pocket (or to buy a big ole portrait of him).
    The other issue is whether or not anyone got undue consideration in Hillary’s dealings in her official capacities (i.e. quid pro quo). I don’t think that’s been established either.
    All in all, it just sounds like Bill’s been a bit greedy about leveraging his name as a very popular former president.

    Reply
  78. My take is that the big deal is that the same guy who solicited donations to the Clinton Foundation also solicited for-profit gigs for Bill. That and that there was a bunch of money involved.
    But I think it was a matter of record who donated to the foundation. I think it was also a matter of record how much income Bill received and from where.
    What I don’t think has surfaced is any actual mingling of foundation money and Bill’s income. It would be one thing if money that was supposed to go to the foundation for charitable purposes went into Bill’s pocket (or to buy a big ole portrait of him).
    The other issue is whether or not anyone got undue consideration in Hillary’s dealings in her official capacities (i.e. quid pro quo). I don’t think that’s been established either.
    All in all, it just sounds like Bill’s been a bit greedy about leveraging his name as a very popular former president.

    Reply
  79. Well, it may be a big nothing. Who knows. But.
    1. I’m tired of hearing about people doing what seems to be incredibly stupid stuff.
    2. Even if it’s a big nothing it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid regardless of whether it is or not.

    Reply
  80. Well, it may be a big nothing. Who knows. But.
    1. I’m tired of hearing about people doing what seems to be incredibly stupid stuff.
    2. Even if it’s a big nothing it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid regardless of whether it is or not.

    Reply
  81. Well, it may be a big nothing. Who knows. But.
    1. I’m tired of hearing about people doing what seems to be incredibly stupid stuff.
    2. Even if it’s a big nothing it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid regardless of whether it is or not.

    Reply
  82. it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid
    Hillary Clinton did one stupid thing – she took the advice of some people who told her that a private server was the way to solve problems. Other people had done similar things (Colin Powell and lots of Executive Department people in the Bush administration who used an RNC server, where millions of emails were completely destroyed).
    She stated that it was a mistake and apologized for it, and turned over most of the emails that were on it.
    Get a grip. She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem. She “mishandled” classified information? Is that the issue? Or did wikileaks not get enough dirt on her?

    Reply
  83. it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid
    Hillary Clinton did one stupid thing – she took the advice of some people who told her that a private server was the way to solve problems. Other people had done similar things (Colin Powell and lots of Executive Department people in the Bush administration who used an RNC server, where millions of emails were completely destroyed).
    She stated that it was a mistake and apologized for it, and turned over most of the emails that were on it.
    Get a grip. She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem. She “mishandled” classified information? Is that the issue? Or did wikileaks not get enough dirt on her?

    Reply
  84. it’s going to have an effect. Making it stupid
    Hillary Clinton did one stupid thing – she took the advice of some people who told her that a private server was the way to solve problems. Other people had done similar things (Colin Powell and lots of Executive Department people in the Bush administration who used an RNC server, where millions of emails were completely destroyed).
    She stated that it was a mistake and apologized for it, and turned over most of the emails that were on it.
    Get a grip. She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem. She “mishandled” classified information? Is that the issue? Or did wikileaks not get enough dirt on her?

    Reply
  85. Noted leftist Norman Ornstein’s twitter take on what Comey should have said:
    What should Comey letter have said?1.obligated to write.2.Not emails fromClinton.3.Not from Wikileaks, Foundation.4.Dont draw inferences

    Reply
  86. Noted leftist Norman Ornstein’s twitter take on what Comey should have said:
    What should Comey letter have said?1.obligated to write.2.Not emails fromClinton.3.Not from Wikileaks, Foundation.4.Dont draw inferences

    Reply
  87. Noted leftist Norman Ornstein’s twitter take on what Comey should have said:
    What should Comey letter have said?1.obligated to write.2.Not emails fromClinton.3.Not from Wikileaks, Foundation.4.Dont draw inferences

    Reply
  88. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Like Paul Ryan, James Comey has unfairly acquired a reputation as a serious person because the punditocracy desperately needs to believe in Serious People on Both Sides.
    –TP

    Reply
  89. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Like Paul Ryan, James Comey has unfairly acquired a reputation as a serious person because the punditocracy desperately needs to believe in Serious People on Both Sides.
    –TP

    Reply
  90. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Like Paul Ryan, James Comey has unfairly acquired a reputation as a serious person because the punditocracy desperately needs to believe in Serious People on Both Sides.
    –TP

    Reply
  91. From NBC news write up of the Band memo:
    Hillary Clinton is not directly implicated, as she was serving as secretary of state at the time and not involved in the Foundation.
    And:
    But more than Band’s role, the memo will likely remain a political artifact for how it details Bill Clinton’s willingness to accept business opportunities for himself.
    The horror.

    Reply
  92. From NBC news write up of the Band memo:
    Hillary Clinton is not directly implicated, as she was serving as secretary of state at the time and not involved in the Foundation.
    And:
    But more than Band’s role, the memo will likely remain a political artifact for how it details Bill Clinton’s willingness to accept business opportunities for himself.
    The horror.

    Reply
  93. From NBC news write up of the Band memo:
    Hillary Clinton is not directly implicated, as she was serving as secretary of state at the time and not involved in the Foundation.
    And:
    But more than Band’s role, the memo will likely remain a political artifact for how it details Bill Clinton’s willingness to accept business opportunities for himself.
    The horror.

    Reply
  94. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Thank you.

    Reply
  95. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Thank you.

    Reply
  96. I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn’t acting. He really is a partisan hack.
    Thank you.

    Reply
  97. There should be a rising tide of outrage demanding to see every email Comey ever sent or received on any device.
    And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?

    Reply
  98. There should be a rising tide of outrage demanding to see every email Comey ever sent or received on any device.
    And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?

    Reply
  99. There should be a rising tide of outrage demanding to see every email Comey ever sent or received on any device.
    And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?

    Reply
  100. And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?
    I’ve never been so scared for our country. Have to figure out where the Resistance is if things go from this to worse.

    Reply
  101. And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?
    I’ve never been so scared for our country. Have to figure out where the Resistance is if things go from this to worse.

    Reply
  102. And what’s with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?
    I’ve never been so scared for our country. Have to figure out where the Resistance is if things go from this to worse.

    Reply
  103. “I’ve never been so scared for our country.”
    The refusal of courts to hold Nazi brownshirts responsible for their criminal acts had some rather bad effects, I think.
    Good thing that “It Can’t Happen Here”, or so I hear.

    Reply
  104. “I’ve never been so scared for our country.”
    The refusal of courts to hold Nazi brownshirts responsible for their criminal acts had some rather bad effects, I think.
    Good thing that “It Can’t Happen Here”, or so I hear.

    Reply
  105. “I’ve never been so scared for our country.”
    The refusal of courts to hold Nazi brownshirts responsible for their criminal acts had some rather bad effects, I think.
    Good thing that “It Can’t Happen Here”, or so I hear.

    Reply
  106. I’m trying to channel my inner conspiracy theorist. Do you suppose this latest Clinton email thing is a diabolical scheme . . . by the Clinton campaign?
    Think about it. A notable feature of the last few days, campaign-wise, has been an absence of self-damaging comments and/or tweets from Trump. Could anything be better calculated to get Trump out of his shell than this? And the more the country sees of Trump, the worse he does.
    Hey, it’s no more ridiculous than most of the conspiracy theories out there.

    Reply
  107. I’m trying to channel my inner conspiracy theorist. Do you suppose this latest Clinton email thing is a diabolical scheme . . . by the Clinton campaign?
    Think about it. A notable feature of the last few days, campaign-wise, has been an absence of self-damaging comments and/or tweets from Trump. Could anything be better calculated to get Trump out of his shell than this? And the more the country sees of Trump, the worse he does.
    Hey, it’s no more ridiculous than most of the conspiracy theories out there.

    Reply
  108. I’m trying to channel my inner conspiracy theorist. Do you suppose this latest Clinton email thing is a diabolical scheme . . . by the Clinton campaign?
    Think about it. A notable feature of the last few days, campaign-wise, has been an absence of self-damaging comments and/or tweets from Trump. Could anything be better calculated to get Trump out of his shell than this? And the more the country sees of Trump, the worse he does.
    Hey, it’s no more ridiculous than most of the conspiracy theories out there.

    Reply
  109. He, Trump came far enough out of his shell to allow that maybe The System is less rigged than he thought. That might lend support to your theory, wj, except that you and I and the Clinton campaign know perfectly well that what He, Trump says today seldom correlates to what He will say tomorrow. The System will be rigged again soon enough.
    –TP

    Reply
  110. He, Trump came far enough out of his shell to allow that maybe The System is less rigged than he thought. That might lend support to your theory, wj, except that you and I and the Clinton campaign know perfectly well that what He, Trump says today seldom correlates to what He will say tomorrow. The System will be rigged again soon enough.
    –TP

    Reply
  111. He, Trump came far enough out of his shell to allow that maybe The System is less rigged than he thought. That might lend support to your theory, wj, except that you and I and the Clinton campaign know perfectly well that what He, Trump says today seldom correlates to what He will say tomorrow. The System will be rigged again soon enough.
    –TP

    Reply
  112. Tony P:
    Out of curiosity, how many of the engineers of which you speak are female? I’m prepared to make a guess …
    Mr Dr Science, BTW, has spoken to what may be the one (1) black Trump supporter in southeastern Pennsylvania. His reason? “Women aren’t as good as men, everybody knows it. We should never have given them the vote.”

    Reply
  113. Tony P:
    Out of curiosity, how many of the engineers of which you speak are female? I’m prepared to make a guess …
    Mr Dr Science, BTW, has spoken to what may be the one (1) black Trump supporter in southeastern Pennsylvania. His reason? “Women aren’t as good as men, everybody knows it. We should never have given them the vote.”

    Reply
  114. Tony P:
    Out of curiosity, how many of the engineers of which you speak are female? I’m prepared to make a guess …
    Mr Dr Science, BTW, has spoken to what may be the one (1) black Trump supporter in southeastern Pennsylvania. His reason? “Women aren’t as good as men, everybody knows it. We should never have given them the vote.”

    Reply
  115. sapient,
    She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem.
    It may well not be a legal problem. It’s certainly a political problem. And however little she may have done wrong legally, she has somehow permitted this whole email mess to dog her and dog her.
    I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with. My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing. And if that’s right, then it was dumb.
    I am hating this.

    Reply
  116. sapient,
    She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem.
    It may well not be a legal problem. It’s certainly a political problem. And however little she may have done wrong legally, she has somehow permitted this whole email mess to dog her and dog her.
    I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with. My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing. And if that’s right, then it was dumb.
    I am hating this.

    Reply
  117. sapient,
    She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn’t some additional problem.
    It may well not be a legal problem. It’s certainly a political problem. And however little she may have done wrong legally, she has somehow permitted this whole email mess to dog her and dog her.
    I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with. My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing. And if that’s right, then it was dumb.
    I am hating this.

    Reply
  118. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier
    Before you cast aspersions, you should read widely.
    My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing.
    She did this a long time ago, and yesterday held a press conference asking that all of the emails be made public. There’s no there there, never has been. The press needs a “both sides” story. Vince Foster, too.

    Reply
  119. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier
    Before you cast aspersions, you should read widely.
    My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing.
    She did this a long time ago, and yesterday held a press conference asking that all of the emails be made public. There’s no there there, never has been. The press needs a “both sides” story. Vince Foster, too.

    Reply
  120. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier
    Before you cast aspersions, you should read widely.
    My impression – that’s all it is – is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing.
    She did this a long time ago, and yesterday held a press conference asking that all of the emails be made public. There’s no there there, never has been. The press needs a “both sides” story. Vince Foster, too.

    Reply
  121. DocSci,
    Of course they’re all men.
    But to be fair, I have no idea whether any of the women in the company might be Trump supporters. I have not heard any of them pipe up one way or t’other.
    –TP

    Reply
  122. DocSci,
    Of course they’re all men.
    But to be fair, I have no idea whether any of the women in the company might be Trump supporters. I have not heard any of them pipe up one way or t’other.
    –TP

    Reply
  123. DocSci,
    Of course they’re all men.
    But to be fair, I have no idea whether any of the women in the company might be Trump supporters. I have not heard any of them pipe up one way or t’other.
    –TP

    Reply
  124. Tony, if the women were Trump supporters, there would be no reason not to say so. But if they aren’t, there are obvious incentives to avoid the topic. Especially if the guys talking up Trump are senior.

    Reply
  125. Tony, if the women were Trump supporters, there would be no reason not to say so. But if they aren’t, there are obvious incentives to avoid the topic. Especially if the guys talking up Trump are senior.

    Reply
  126. Tony, if the women were Trump supporters, there would be no reason not to say so. But if they aren’t, there are obvious incentives to avoid the topic. Especially if the guys talking up Trump are senior.

    Reply
  127. wj,
    The most senior people in the company include a Swedish immigrant, an Italian immigrant, and an Israeli immigrant. Oh, and not to forget the Iranian immigrant, who can’t get over the similarities between He, Trump and Ahmadinejad. I have not heard them (except the last guy) express an opinion on the election, but they don’t quite fit the profile of The Trump Voter. Of course, the lower-level engineers I was talking about don’t quite fit the profile, either, so who knows?
    –TP

    Reply
  128. wj,
    The most senior people in the company include a Swedish immigrant, an Italian immigrant, and an Israeli immigrant. Oh, and not to forget the Iranian immigrant, who can’t get over the similarities between He, Trump and Ahmadinejad. I have not heard them (except the last guy) express an opinion on the election, but they don’t quite fit the profile of The Trump Voter. Of course, the lower-level engineers I was talking about don’t quite fit the profile, either, so who knows?
    –TP

    Reply
  129. wj,
    The most senior people in the company include a Swedish immigrant, an Italian immigrant, and an Israeli immigrant. Oh, and not to forget the Iranian immigrant, who can’t get over the similarities between He, Trump and Ahmadinejad. I have not heard them (except the last guy) express an opinion on the election, but they don’t quite fit the profile of The Trump Voter. Of course, the lower-level engineers I was talking about don’t quite fit the profile, either, so who knows?
    –TP

    Reply
  130. It was a politically stupid decision at the time, and Comey’s action yesterday, horribly wrong as it was, continues to demonstrate why it was politically stupid. It was an unforced error and self-inflicted wound and exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    That Mayer’s piece demonstrates Comey’s incompetence and unfitness to further occupy his position has no bearing on the wisdom of Clinton’s decision. I voted for her earlier today and believe she can, and hope she will, be a very good President. That she is also capable of this kind of mistake is maddening.

    Reply
  131. It was a politically stupid decision at the time, and Comey’s action yesterday, horribly wrong as it was, continues to demonstrate why it was politically stupid. It was an unforced error and self-inflicted wound and exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    That Mayer’s piece demonstrates Comey’s incompetence and unfitness to further occupy his position has no bearing on the wisdom of Clinton’s decision. I voted for her earlier today and believe she can, and hope she will, be a very good President. That she is also capable of this kind of mistake is maddening.

    Reply
  132. It was a politically stupid decision at the time, and Comey’s action yesterday, horribly wrong as it was, continues to demonstrate why it was politically stupid. It was an unforced error and self-inflicted wound and exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    That Mayer’s piece demonstrates Comey’s incompetence and unfitness to further occupy his position has no bearing on the wisdom of Clinton’s decision. I voted for her earlier today and believe she can, and hope she will, be a very good President. That she is also capable of this kind of mistake is maddening.

    Reply
  133. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with.
    You pretty much have the right of it. It was textbook Clintontonian tone-deafness: there is criticism of me, the media is repeating it, the media hates me so why should I care or take it seriously?

    Reply
  134. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with.
    You pretty much have the right of it. It was textbook Clintontonian tone-deafness: there is criticism of me, the media is repeating it, the media hates me so why should I care or take it seriously?

    Reply
  135. I admit I haven’t followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with.
    You pretty much have the right of it. It was textbook Clintontonian tone-deafness: there is criticism of me, the media is repeating it, the media hates me so why should I care or take it seriously?

    Reply
  136. It was a politically stupid decision at the time,
    Perhaps, but this was the first time in history anyone made an issue out of it. See Colin Powell, and see the Bush White House.
    Yes, it was dumb, and it’s maddening, but everyone does something dumb (even Obama, in appointing Jim Comey). Considering that most of the emails were turned over, and even hacked emails have been nothingburgers,I don’t really see why we haven’t moved on to the acceptance stage.

    Reply
  137. It was a politically stupid decision at the time,
    Perhaps, but this was the first time in history anyone made an issue out of it. See Colin Powell, and see the Bush White House.
    Yes, it was dumb, and it’s maddening, but everyone does something dumb (even Obama, in appointing Jim Comey). Considering that most of the emails were turned over, and even hacked emails have been nothingburgers,I don’t really see why we haven’t moved on to the acceptance stage.

    Reply
  138. It was a politically stupid decision at the time,
    Perhaps, but this was the first time in history anyone made an issue out of it. See Colin Powell, and see the Bush White House.
    Yes, it was dumb, and it’s maddening, but everyone does something dumb (even Obama, in appointing Jim Comey). Considering that most of the emails were turned over, and even hacked emails have been nothingburgers,I don’t really see why we haven’t moved on to the acceptance stage.

    Reply
  139. I have the distinct impression, across decades of observation, that those in powerful positions (in government and the private sector both) routinely put things in writing which leave me asking myself “What the hell were they thinking?!?!?” I guess they just live in a whole different world.

    Reply
  140. I have the distinct impression, across decades of observation, that those in powerful positions (in government and the private sector both) routinely put things in writing which leave me asking myself “What the hell were they thinking?!?!?” I guess they just live in a whole different world.

    Reply
  141. I have the distinct impression, across decades of observation, that those in powerful positions (in government and the private sector both) routinely put things in writing which leave me asking myself “What the hell were they thinking?!?!?” I guess they just live in a whole different world.

    Reply
  142. ugh: …exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    ugh,
    It’s not clear that “the kind of thing” you’re talking about is using a private email server in the first place, but let me pretend for a minute that’s what you meant.
    What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    Why does Hillary need to achieve perfection in order to be politically smart, while He, Trump merely has to avoid shooting somebody on 5th Avenue? I’m not asking you; I’m asking why you suppose it is that “voters” are inclined to think that way.
    –TP

    Reply
  143. ugh: …exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    ugh,
    It’s not clear that “the kind of thing” you’re talking about is using a private email server in the first place, but let me pretend for a minute that’s what you meant.
    What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    Why does Hillary need to achieve perfection in order to be politically smart, while He, Trump merely has to avoid shooting somebody on 5th Avenue? I’m not asking you; I’m asking why you suppose it is that “voters” are inclined to think that way.
    –TP

    Reply
  144. ugh: …exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.
    ugh,
    It’s not clear that “the kind of thing” you’re talking about is using a private email server in the first place, but let me pretend for a minute that’s what you meant.
    What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    Why does Hillary need to achieve perfection in order to be politically smart, while He, Trump merely has to avoid shooting somebody on 5th Avenue? I’m not asking you; I’m asking why you suppose it is that “voters” are inclined to think that way.
    –TP

    Reply
  145. Tony,
    As far as I can tell it’s the whole “classified information” business. Further, Trump was able to put an end to things himself. He stomped his foot and said “no tax returns.” Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. She had the FBI, etc. to deal with, so it stayed in the news and was, rightly or not, a constant matter of discussion.
    Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.
    I think that would be comparable.

    Reply
  146. Tony,
    As far as I can tell it’s the whole “classified information” business. Further, Trump was able to put an end to things himself. He stomped his foot and said “no tax returns.” Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. She had the FBI, etc. to deal with, so it stayed in the news and was, rightly or not, a constant matter of discussion.
    Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.
    I think that would be comparable.

    Reply
  147. Tony,
    As far as I can tell it’s the whole “classified information” business. Further, Trump was able to put an end to things himself. He stomped his foot and said “no tax returns.” Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. She had the FBI, etc. to deal with, so it stayed in the news and was, rightly or not, a constant matter of discussion.
    Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.
    I think that would be comparable.

    Reply
  148. sapient,
    I’m familiar with the criticisms of Comey’s actions, and they seem valid to me. My points relate to the longer history of the whole email business.
    Like Sanders, I’ve had enough of it.

    Reply
  149. sapient,
    I’m familiar with the criticisms of Comey’s actions, and they seem valid to me. My points relate to the longer history of the whole email business.
    Like Sanders, I’ve had enough of it.

    Reply
  150. sapient,
    I’m familiar with the criticisms of Comey’s actions, and they seem valid to me. My points relate to the longer history of the whole email business.
    Like Sanders, I’ve had enough of it.

    Reply
  151. sapient,
    Republicans don’t matter in this case: “enough already” is ultimately an appeal to a sense of shame, and Republicans of the Trump-supporting variety don’t have any.
    Tell Democrats “enough already” Enough with kowtowing to the notion that our candidate has to be above suspicion by the other side. Enough with tolerating the mindless conflation between “classified information” and national security.
    AND: enough with pretending that “serious”, “moderate” Republicans exist in Washington. It’s easily arguable that the serious, moderate Sandra Day O’Connor single-handedly foisted Dick and Dubya on this country, and it will be hard to argue that the serious, moderate James Comey did NOT single-handedly foist He, Trump on this country, should that calamity come to pass.
    –TP

    Reply
  152. sapient,
    Republicans don’t matter in this case: “enough already” is ultimately an appeal to a sense of shame, and Republicans of the Trump-supporting variety don’t have any.
    Tell Democrats “enough already” Enough with kowtowing to the notion that our candidate has to be above suspicion by the other side. Enough with tolerating the mindless conflation between “classified information” and national security.
    AND: enough with pretending that “serious”, “moderate” Republicans exist in Washington. It’s easily arguable that the serious, moderate Sandra Day O’Connor single-handedly foisted Dick and Dubya on this country, and it will be hard to argue that the serious, moderate James Comey did NOT single-handedly foist He, Trump on this country, should that calamity come to pass.
    –TP

    Reply
  153. sapient,
    Republicans don’t matter in this case: “enough already” is ultimately an appeal to a sense of shame, and Republicans of the Trump-supporting variety don’t have any.
    Tell Democrats “enough already” Enough with kowtowing to the notion that our candidate has to be above suspicion by the other side. Enough with tolerating the mindless conflation between “classified information” and national security.
    AND: enough with pretending that “serious”, “moderate” Republicans exist in Washington. It’s easily arguable that the serious, moderate Sandra Day O’Connor single-handedly foisted Dick and Dubya on this country, and it will be hard to argue that the serious, moderate James Comey did NOT single-handedly foist He, Trump on this country, should that calamity come to pass.
    –TP

    Reply
  154. That assumes the “enough already” arguments are appeals to shame. If they’re “this is such a bore”, well, they’ll definitely have an impact on both sides’ apparatchiks, as well as the excluded political middle.

    Reply
  155. That assumes the “enough already” arguments are appeals to shame. If they’re “this is such a bore”, well, they’ll definitely have an impact on both sides’ apparatchiks, as well as the excluded political middle.

    Reply
  156. That assumes the “enough already” arguments are appeals to shame. If they’re “this is such a bore”, well, they’ll definitely have an impact on both sides’ apparatchiks, as well as the excluded political middle.

    Reply
  157. “Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. ”
    IMO, there is no response that Clinton could make, to any allegation, in any context, that would deflect her political enemies from pursuing any and every possible or even impossible hint of wrongdoing to the absolute bitter end.
    It’s like they’ve contracted some kind of freaking political rabies.
    People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do, It’s a freaking mania.
    If she responds, she’s clearly being defensive. If she tries to blow it off, she’s hiding something. If she complains about harrassment, she’s being paranoid and a poor sport.
    The bar for Clinton is insanely high, and there is nothing whatsoever that can do or say that will satisfy her critics.
    It’s an obsession. Apparently, she’s learned to live with it.

    Reply
  158. “Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. ”
    IMO, there is no response that Clinton could make, to any allegation, in any context, that would deflect her political enemies from pursuing any and every possible or even impossible hint of wrongdoing to the absolute bitter end.
    It’s like they’ve contracted some kind of freaking political rabies.
    People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do, It’s a freaking mania.
    If she responds, she’s clearly being defensive. If she tries to blow it off, she’s hiding something. If she complains about harrassment, she’s being paranoid and a poor sport.
    The bar for Clinton is insanely high, and there is nothing whatsoever that can do or say that will satisfy her critics.
    It’s an obsession. Apparently, she’s learned to live with it.

    Reply
  159. “Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn’t do that. ”
    IMO, there is no response that Clinton could make, to any allegation, in any context, that would deflect her political enemies from pursuing any and every possible or even impossible hint of wrongdoing to the absolute bitter end.
    It’s like they’ve contracted some kind of freaking political rabies.
    People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do, It’s a freaking mania.
    If she responds, she’s clearly being defensive. If she tries to blow it off, she’s hiding something. If she complains about harrassment, she’s being paranoid and a poor sport.
    The bar for Clinton is insanely high, and there is nothing whatsoever that can do or say that will satisfy her critics.
    It’s an obsession. Apparently, she’s learned to live with it.

    Reply
  160. “Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.”
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Reply
  161. “Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.”
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Reply
  162. “Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.”
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Reply
  163. under active investigation for a number of reasons,
    Can’t wait to find out what the Putin connection is. Obviously, it’s of some, but limited, interest to the news media. Not nearly as exciting as the nothingburger emails that the Putin people hacked.

    Reply
  164. under active investigation for a number of reasons,
    Can’t wait to find out what the Putin connection is. Obviously, it’s of some, but limited, interest to the news media. Not nearly as exciting as the nothingburger emails that the Putin people hacked.

    Reply
  165. under active investigation for a number of reasons,
    Can’t wait to find out what the Putin connection is. Obviously, it’s of some, but limited, interest to the news media. Not nearly as exciting as the nothingburger emails that the Putin people hacked.

    Reply
  166. People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do
    It’s not like there’s a mystery here. When she got given a policy portfolio (health care) in the first Clinton administration, she became a threat. Not only in her own right, but symbolically. If she had succeeded, it would have been a thousand times worse. So she had to be stopped at all costs.
    Of course, if she wins the Presidency, that’s an even bigger threat. And God forbid she should have a successful administration. “Great and frightening changes” doesn’t begin to describe how that is seen.
    Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed. Or even just not fail spectacularly. But that doesn’t change the reality of how they see the world.

    Reply
  167. People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do
    It’s not like there’s a mystery here. When she got given a policy portfolio (health care) in the first Clinton administration, she became a threat. Not only in her own right, but symbolically. If she had succeeded, it would have been a thousand times worse. So she had to be stopped at all costs.
    Of course, if she wins the Presidency, that’s an even bigger threat. And God forbid she should have a successful administration. “Great and frightening changes” doesn’t begin to describe how that is seen.
    Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed. Or even just not fail spectacularly. But that doesn’t change the reality of how they see the world.

    Reply
  168. People hate her. I don’t know why, they just do
    It’s not like there’s a mystery here. When she got given a policy portfolio (health care) in the first Clinton administration, she became a threat. Not only in her own right, but symbolically. If she had succeeded, it would have been a thousand times worse. So she had to be stopped at all costs.
    Of course, if she wins the Presidency, that’s an even bigger threat. And God forbid she should have a successful administration. “Great and frightening changes” doesn’t begin to describe how that is seen.
    Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed. Or even just not fail spectacularly. But that doesn’t change the reality of how they see the world.

    Reply
  169. The crap that is going to come out about the behind the scenes of the Trump campaign after the election will be unbelievable. You can’t run a ship with that many rats and not have them eat each other once it’s clear the ship is irretrievably sinking. Comey has just delayed the cannibalism by a few days.

    Reply
  170. The crap that is going to come out about the behind the scenes of the Trump campaign after the election will be unbelievable. You can’t run a ship with that many rats and not have them eat each other once it’s clear the ship is irretrievably sinking. Comey has just delayed the cannibalism by a few days.

    Reply
  171. The crap that is going to come out about the behind the scenes of the Trump campaign after the election will be unbelievable. You can’t run a ship with that many rats and not have them eat each other once it’s clear the ship is irretrievably sinking. Comey has just delayed the cannibalism by a few days.

    Reply
  172. “Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed.”
    Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her. Just like you can’t not like Obama unless you’re a racist.
    “Oh well, its obvious….” There are lots of reasons from her policies to her temperament to her basic lack of conscience to not like her. Not one of those has to do with the fact she is a woman. People don’t like her because she is a criminal and a liar. Just because lots of people don’t care that she is a criminal and a liar doesn’t change those facts. And before you start, she is a criminal who is a good enough liar to not yet get convicted.
    I am threatened, by the predictable outcome of her election. My ACA just went up 125%, they don’t cover any of my doctors and no insurance company will talk to me unless I go through the exchange. So what’s the fix? Well f’cking single payer of course, the plan all along. They don’t just lie to get elected, they lie about anything they please, sometimes just by habit.
    Everyone complains about Bush not having a plan for what to do after we took Iraq, lets talk about what the Democrats plan is now that the ACA is an unmitigated disaster crumbling under the weight of lies and mis set expectations.
    Just what we need, a supporter of killing children days away from being born, but that’s not inconsistent with sending kids to die in wars for no purpose, but taking away anyone’s ability to defend themselves while expanding the nanny state and solidifying the dictatorial Presidency.
    And none of those have anything to do with what a liar and failed public servant she is. I disliked her immensely and the last straw was when she sat in front of Congress and told them what she had done wasn’t worth her time to explain so everyone should just “move on”. Now I hate her. Her emails are just a reflection of the despicable person she is, confirming what everyone has said about her.
    And not one of those has to do with what sex she is.

    Reply
  173. “Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed.”
    Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her. Just like you can’t not like Obama unless you’re a racist.
    “Oh well, its obvious….” There are lots of reasons from her policies to her temperament to her basic lack of conscience to not like her. Not one of those has to do with the fact she is a woman. People don’t like her because she is a criminal and a liar. Just because lots of people don’t care that she is a criminal and a liar doesn’t change those facts. And before you start, she is a criminal who is a good enough liar to not yet get convicted.
    I am threatened, by the predictable outcome of her election. My ACA just went up 125%, they don’t cover any of my doctors and no insurance company will talk to me unless I go through the exchange. So what’s the fix? Well f’cking single payer of course, the plan all along. They don’t just lie to get elected, they lie about anything they please, sometimes just by habit.
    Everyone complains about Bush not having a plan for what to do after we took Iraq, lets talk about what the Democrats plan is now that the ACA is an unmitigated disaster crumbling under the weight of lies and mis set expectations.
    Just what we need, a supporter of killing children days away from being born, but that’s not inconsistent with sending kids to die in wars for no purpose, but taking away anyone’s ability to defend themselves while expanding the nanny state and solidifying the dictatorial Presidency.
    And none of those have anything to do with what a liar and failed public servant she is. I disliked her immensely and the last straw was when she sat in front of Congress and told them what she had done wasn’t worth her time to explain so everyone should just “move on”. Now I hate her. Her emails are just a reflection of the despicable person she is, confirming what everyone has said about her.
    And not one of those has to do with what sex she is.

    Reply
  174. “Granted it’s pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed.”
    Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her. Just like you can’t not like Obama unless you’re a racist.
    “Oh well, its obvious….” There are lots of reasons from her policies to her temperament to her basic lack of conscience to not like her. Not one of those has to do with the fact she is a woman. People don’t like her because she is a criminal and a liar. Just because lots of people don’t care that she is a criminal and a liar doesn’t change those facts. And before you start, she is a criminal who is a good enough liar to not yet get convicted.
    I am threatened, by the predictable outcome of her election. My ACA just went up 125%, they don’t cover any of my doctors and no insurance company will talk to me unless I go through the exchange. So what’s the fix? Well f’cking single payer of course, the plan all along. They don’t just lie to get elected, they lie about anything they please, sometimes just by habit.
    Everyone complains about Bush not having a plan for what to do after we took Iraq, lets talk about what the Democrats plan is now that the ACA is an unmitigated disaster crumbling under the weight of lies and mis set expectations.
    Just what we need, a supporter of killing children days away from being born, but that’s not inconsistent with sending kids to die in wars for no purpose, but taking away anyone’s ability to defend themselves while expanding the nanny state and solidifying the dictatorial Presidency.
    And none of those have anything to do with what a liar and failed public servant she is. I disliked her immensely and the last straw was when she sat in front of Congress and told them what she had done wasn’t worth her time to explain so everyone should just “move on”. Now I hate her. Her emails are just a reflection of the despicable person she is, confirming what everyone has said about her.
    And not one of those has to do with what sex she is.

    Reply
  175. What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    This is a really dense question. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME. The government. We were paying her. She was hiding her emails from us, the people that employeed her. And then she lied to us and our elected representatives about them, and then erased them, and then lied about them again. IN fact, what gets lost in all this is they were subpoenaed as part of the Benghazi investigation, remember when she told us to “move on” as she was destroying evidence that had been subpoenaed?
    Trumps tax returns were filed as a private citizen, not working for the government.
    While we all would like to see them, there is no equivalency between those two things.

    Reply
  176. What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    This is a really dense question. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME. The government. We were paying her. She was hiding her emails from us, the people that employeed her. And then she lied to us and our elected representatives about them, and then erased them, and then lied about them again. IN fact, what gets lost in all this is they were subpoenaed as part of the Benghazi investigation, remember when she told us to “move on” as she was destroying evidence that had been subpoenaed?
    Trumps tax returns were filed as a private citizen, not working for the government.
    While we all would like to see them, there is no equivalency between those two things.

    Reply
  177. What I’d like to know is why Hillary’s instinct to keep her emails private is more “politically stupid” — as far as “low-information voters” are concerned — than He, Trump’s determination to keep his tax returns private.
    This is a really dense question. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME. The government. We were paying her. She was hiding her emails from us, the people that employeed her. And then she lied to us and our elected representatives about them, and then erased them, and then lied about them again. IN fact, what gets lost in all this is they were subpoenaed as part of the Benghazi investigation, remember when she told us to “move on” as she was destroying evidence that had been subpoenaed?
    Trumps tax returns were filed as a private citizen, not working for the government.
    While we all would like to see them, there is no equivalency between those two things.

    Reply
  178. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME.
    She disclosed emails that she sent as Secretary of State. She deleted personal emails. How many people do you know who have made public tens of thousands of emails? Have you made those public to your coworkers? Did you make public all of your work emails? That is not the usual thing, even though we all knot that our work emails aren’t “private”. This is simply not done.
    We all know what happened, and what the “scandal” was, but there’s no Secretary of State, no federal government official in the prior administration, or in any administration, who has been as fully transparent, and as thoroughly scrutinized as Hillary Clinton. But it’s something for you to beat the drum on, Marty, so most people will learn to ignore you.

    Reply
  179. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME.
    She disclosed emails that she sent as Secretary of State. She deleted personal emails. How many people do you know who have made public tens of thousands of emails? Have you made those public to your coworkers? Did you make public all of your work emails? That is not the usual thing, even though we all knot that our work emails aren’t “private”. This is simply not done.
    We all know what happened, and what the “scandal” was, but there’s no Secretary of State, no federal government official in the prior administration, or in any administration, who has been as fully transparent, and as thoroughly scrutinized as Hillary Clinton. But it’s something for you to beat the drum on, Marty, so most people will learn to ignore you.

    Reply
  180. Her instinct to keep her emails private was specifically against the law as an employee of ME.
    She disclosed emails that she sent as Secretary of State. She deleted personal emails. How many people do you know who have made public tens of thousands of emails? Have you made those public to your coworkers? Did you make public all of your work emails? That is not the usual thing, even though we all knot that our work emails aren’t “private”. This is simply not done.
    We all know what happened, and what the “scandal” was, but there’s no Secretary of State, no federal government official in the prior administration, or in any administration, who has been as fully transparent, and as thoroughly scrutinized as Hillary Clinton. But it’s something for you to beat the drum on, Marty, so most people will learn to ignore you.

    Reply
  181. Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her.
    Not quite. You can dislike her for lots of reasons, including just having policy differences. But that’s not what we are talking about.
    As with Obama, we are talking about venomous hatred out of all proportion to anything they have done or said. Proclaimed hatred for them over policy positions which, no matter how strongly opposed, don’t get the same kind of demonization for a white man who holds them.
    Accusations of evil intent for every case of policy differences — not just arguments that they are wrong, but that they actively see to harm the nation. Again, way beyond what is said of the (numerous) politicians holding the same positions, but are neither black nor female.
    Nobody here thinks disagreeing with Clinton is inherently sexist. But hatred? Better have examples of the same attitude towards men who hold the same positions if you want to avoid that kind of accusation.

    Reply
  182. Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her.
    Not quite. You can dislike her for lots of reasons, including just having policy differences. But that’s not what we are talking about.
    As with Obama, we are talking about venomous hatred out of all proportion to anything they have done or said. Proclaimed hatred for them over policy positions which, no matter how strongly opposed, don’t get the same kind of demonization for a white man who holds them.
    Accusations of evil intent for every case of policy differences — not just arguments that they are wrong, but that they actively see to harm the nation. Again, way beyond what is said of the (numerous) politicians holding the same positions, but are neither black nor female.
    Nobody here thinks disagreeing with Clinton is inherently sexist. But hatred? Better have examples of the same attitude towards men who hold the same positions if you want to avoid that kind of accusation.

    Reply
  183. Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her.
    Not quite. You can dislike her for lots of reasons, including just having policy differences. But that’s not what we are talking about.
    As with Obama, we are talking about venomous hatred out of all proportion to anything they have done or said. Proclaimed hatred for them over policy positions which, no matter how strongly opposed, don’t get the same kind of demonization for a white man who holds them.
    Accusations of evil intent for every case of policy differences — not just arguments that they are wrong, but that they actively see to harm the nation. Again, way beyond what is said of the (numerous) politicians holding the same positions, but are neither black nor female.
    Nobody here thinks disagreeing with Clinton is inherently sexist. But hatred? Better have examples of the same attitude towards men who hold the same positions if you want to avoid that kind of accusation.

    Reply
  184. Ouch
    In recent weeks, the mood at Trump Tower has veered between despair and denial—with a hit of resurgent glee when the news broke that the FBI was looking into more of Clinton’s emails. When I asked one senior Trump adviser to describe the scene inside, he responded: “Think of the bunker right before Hitler killed himself. Donald’s in denial. They’re all in denial.” (As Times columnist Ross Douthat put it, in a tweet, “In Trumpworld as Hitler’s Bunker terms,” the FBI investigation is “like when Goebbels thought FDR’s death would save the Nazi regime.”)

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-campaign-final-days.html?mid=fb-share-di

    Reply
  185. Ouch
    In recent weeks, the mood at Trump Tower has veered between despair and denial—with a hit of resurgent glee when the news broke that the FBI was looking into more of Clinton’s emails. When I asked one senior Trump adviser to describe the scene inside, he responded: “Think of the bunker right before Hitler killed himself. Donald’s in denial. They’re all in denial.” (As Times columnist Ross Douthat put it, in a tweet, “In Trumpworld as Hitler’s Bunker terms,” the FBI investigation is “like when Goebbels thought FDR’s death would save the Nazi regime.”)

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-campaign-final-days.html?mid=fb-share-di

    Reply
  186. Ouch
    In recent weeks, the mood at Trump Tower has veered between despair and denial—with a hit of resurgent glee when the news broke that the FBI was looking into more of Clinton’s emails. When I asked one senior Trump adviser to describe the scene inside, he responded: “Think of the bunker right before Hitler killed himself. Donald’s in denial. They’re all in denial.” (As Times columnist Ross Douthat put it, in a tweet, “In Trumpworld as Hitler’s Bunker terms,” the FBI investigation is “like when Goebbels thought FDR’s death would save the Nazi regime.”)

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/trump-campaign-final-days.html?mid=fb-share-di

    Reply
  187. I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons. But more, I love the “well Karl Rove did it” defense. I agree that she has the ethics of Karl Rove. I would never vote for him either.

    Reply
  188. I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons. But more, I love the “well Karl Rove did it” defense. I agree that she has the ethics of Karl Rove. I would never vote for him either.

    Reply
  189. I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons. But more, I love the “well Karl Rove did it” defense. I agree that she has the ethics of Karl Rove. I would never vote for him either.

    Reply
  190. Actually, there’s no evidence that the RNC server under Bush was legal, and statements by staffers suggest it wasn’t (as in, anything with a “political flavor” went through the private server, even if it was official business). In any case, however, since the Bush executive didn’t bother with any forensics, we have only the accused party’s assurance that nothing illegal was done.
    I do agree that “no more slimy than Rove” is a bizarre but amusing defensive gambit.

    Reply
  191. Actually, there’s no evidence that the RNC server under Bush was legal, and statements by staffers suggest it wasn’t (as in, anything with a “political flavor” went through the private server, even if it was official business). In any case, however, since the Bush executive didn’t bother with any forensics, we have only the accused party’s assurance that nothing illegal was done.
    I do agree that “no more slimy than Rove” is a bizarre but amusing defensive gambit.

    Reply
  192. Actually, there’s no evidence that the RNC server under Bush was legal, and statements by staffers suggest it wasn’t (as in, anything with a “political flavor” went through the private server, even if it was official business). In any case, however, since the Bush executive didn’t bother with any forensics, we have only the accused party’s assurance that nothing illegal was done.
    I do agree that “no more slimy than Rove” is a bizarre but amusing defensive gambit.

    Reply
  193. “I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons”
    perfectly legal, but not for the purposes it was used for.
    and rove was not the only one using it.
    just to keep the discussion in the realm of fact.
    i don’t care if you love clinton, hate clinton, whatever. vote for whoever you want.
    the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged. the standard that she is expected to meet is simply not applied to any other national figure that i can think of, now or ever.
    it’s a mania.

    Reply
  194. “I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons”
    perfectly legal, but not for the purposes it was used for.
    and rove was not the only one using it.
    just to keep the discussion in the realm of fact.
    i don’t care if you love clinton, hate clinton, whatever. vote for whoever you want.
    the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged. the standard that she is expected to meet is simply not applied to any other national figure that i can think of, now or ever.
    it’s a mania.

    Reply
  195. “I love the 22 million emails deleted from a perfectly legal mail server comparisons”
    perfectly legal, but not for the purposes it was used for.
    and rove was not the only one using it.
    just to keep the discussion in the realm of fact.
    i don’t care if you love clinton, hate clinton, whatever. vote for whoever you want.
    the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged. the standard that she is expected to meet is simply not applied to any other national figure that i can think of, now or ever.
    it’s a mania.

    Reply
  196. the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged.
    But how else are they going to “lock her up”? Well, I guess they could just do it.

    Reply
  197. the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged.
    But how else are they going to “lock her up”? Well, I guess they could just do it.

    Reply
  198. the obsessive ankle-biting inquisition of HRC is IMO borderline deranged.
    But how else are they going to “lock her up”? Well, I guess they could just do it.

    Reply
  199. It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.
    There is a double standard, but the only one we expect her to meet is the one everybody else has to meet. She believes, rightly so far, she is immune from consequences.
    Lots of people will hate her for that.

    Reply
  200. It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.
    There is a double standard, but the only one we expect her to meet is the one everybody else has to meet. She believes, rightly so far, she is immune from consequences.
    Lots of people will hate her for that.

    Reply
  201. It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.
    There is a double standard, but the only one we expect her to meet is the one everybody else has to meet. She believes, rightly so far, she is immune from consequences.
    Lots of people will hate her for that.

    Reply
  202. It’s the differing standard that is maddening, and the mania as Russell put it that seems to apply to the Clintons. If I had to give a reason it’s because they interrupted what was supposed to be a glorious GOP perpetual occupation of the White House supported by the warm glow of St. Ronnie the Fantasist and that the press core had gotten so cozy/lazy covering the same that they were annoyed with the change and having to trudge off to Arkansas to find out who these interlopers were and thus happy to repeat any tale told about them.
    Think David Broder’s (IIRC) infamous comment about “this is not their house” and Peggy Noonan on “irresponsible not not speculate!” And murdering Vince Foster!!!
    Although I saw a tweet yesterday that said “Anthony Weiner is living proof that the Clinton’s do not have people murdered.” Which I thought was amusing.

    Reply
  203. It’s the differing standard that is maddening, and the mania as Russell put it that seems to apply to the Clintons. If I had to give a reason it’s because they interrupted what was supposed to be a glorious GOP perpetual occupation of the White House supported by the warm glow of St. Ronnie the Fantasist and that the press core had gotten so cozy/lazy covering the same that they were annoyed with the change and having to trudge off to Arkansas to find out who these interlopers were and thus happy to repeat any tale told about them.
    Think David Broder’s (IIRC) infamous comment about “this is not their house” and Peggy Noonan on “irresponsible not not speculate!” And murdering Vince Foster!!!
    Although I saw a tweet yesterday that said “Anthony Weiner is living proof that the Clinton’s do not have people murdered.” Which I thought was amusing.

    Reply
  204. It’s the differing standard that is maddening, and the mania as Russell put it that seems to apply to the Clintons. If I had to give a reason it’s because they interrupted what was supposed to be a glorious GOP perpetual occupation of the White House supported by the warm glow of St. Ronnie the Fantasist and that the press core had gotten so cozy/lazy covering the same that they were annoyed with the change and having to trudge off to Arkansas to find out who these interlopers were and thus happy to repeat any tale told about them.
    Think David Broder’s (IIRC) infamous comment about “this is not their house” and Peggy Noonan on “irresponsible not not speculate!” And murdering Vince Foster!!!
    Although I saw a tweet yesterday that said “Anthony Weiner is living proof that the Clinton’s do not have people murdered.” Which I thought was amusing.

    Reply
  205. “It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.”
    George W. Bush won a second term. Nixon too.

    Reply
  206. “It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.”
    George W. Bush won a second term. Nixon too.

    Reply
  207. “It’s a mania because no other public figure would still be in the running for President after all that she’s done. No. one.else.”
    George W. Bush won a second term. Nixon too.

    Reply
  208. And Poppy “not in the loop” Bush won after being Reagan’s VPOTUS.
    If we want to expand this to any federal office, the list is going to be really long.
    Huge, even.
    Nobody is held to the standard that the Clintons are. Especially HRC.

    Reply
  209. And Poppy “not in the loop” Bush won after being Reagan’s VPOTUS.
    If we want to expand this to any federal office, the list is going to be really long.
    Huge, even.
    Nobody is held to the standard that the Clintons are. Especially HRC.

    Reply
  210. And Poppy “not in the loop” Bush won after being Reagan’s VPOTUS.
    If we want to expand this to any federal office, the list is going to be really long.
    Huge, even.
    Nobody is held to the standard that the Clintons are. Especially HRC.

    Reply
  211. None of them are close. Not one. Bush 2 certainly wasn’t under investigation by the FBI. Nixon wasn’t either when reelected but of course, RESIGNED, in shame and needed a pardon to stay out of jail. Unless say, Vince Foster, she can get a pardon for the other stuff, just not the Presidency.
    Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    What bs.

    Reply
  212. None of them are close. Not one. Bush 2 certainly wasn’t under investigation by the FBI. Nixon wasn’t either when reelected but of course, RESIGNED, in shame and needed a pardon to stay out of jail. Unless say, Vince Foster, she can get a pardon for the other stuff, just not the Presidency.
    Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    What bs.

    Reply
  213. None of them are close. Not one. Bush 2 certainly wasn’t under investigation by the FBI. Nixon wasn’t either when reelected but of course, RESIGNED, in shame and needed a pardon to stay out of jail. Unless say, Vince Foster, she can get a pardon for the other stuff, just not the Presidency.
    Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    What bs.

    Reply
  214. You said “for what she’s done”. Bush 2 and Nixon were far far far worse by that standard. They make Hillary Clinton look like a saint.

    Reply
  215. You said “for what she’s done”. Bush 2 and Nixon were far far far worse by that standard. They make Hillary Clinton look like a saint.

    Reply
  216. You said “for what she’s done”. Bush 2 and Nixon were far far far worse by that standard. They make Hillary Clinton look like a saint.

    Reply
  217. Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    I love the way the right wing conducts continuous investigations, then claims, when they don’t find anything that “she got away with it”. They are unwilling, ever, to concede that she is not a villain. It’s called fascism, Marty.

    Reply
  218. Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    I love the way the right wing conducts continuous investigations, then claims, when they don’t find anything that “she got away with it”. They are unwilling, ever, to concede that she is not a villain. It’s called fascism, Marty.

    Reply
  219. Nobody gets away with the crap they do, especially HRC. I hate her more every time someone says she is SOOOO unfairly treated.
    I love the way the right wing conducts continuous investigations, then claims, when they don’t find anything that “she got away with it”. They are unwilling, ever, to concede that she is not a villain. It’s called fascism, Marty.

    Reply
  220. it’s a mania.
    a religion, even. the faithful don’t need proof; they have a rich and ever-growing mythology to immerse themselves in, the constant comfort of confirmation bias, and of course faith. but what can we expect: they’ve been raised to believe it.
    oh sure, the people who produce the sacred texts do it for-profit. and the religion inspires nothing but hatred and cynicism in its followers; there will be no great works of art from its followers: no Sistine Chapel, no Handel’s Messiah, not even an Amazing Grace. what a waste of energy.

    Reply
  221. it’s a mania.
    a religion, even. the faithful don’t need proof; they have a rich and ever-growing mythology to immerse themselves in, the constant comfort of confirmation bias, and of course faith. but what can we expect: they’ve been raised to believe it.
    oh sure, the people who produce the sacred texts do it for-profit. and the religion inspires nothing but hatred and cynicism in its followers; there will be no great works of art from its followers: no Sistine Chapel, no Handel’s Messiah, not even an Amazing Grace. what a waste of energy.

    Reply
  222. it’s a mania.
    a religion, even. the faithful don’t need proof; they have a rich and ever-growing mythology to immerse themselves in, the constant comfort of confirmation bias, and of course faith. but what can we expect: they’ve been raised to believe it.
    oh sure, the people who produce the sacred texts do it for-profit. and the religion inspires nothing but hatred and cynicism in its followers; there will be no great works of art from its followers: no Sistine Chapel, no Handel’s Messiah, not even an Amazing Grace. what a waste of energy.

    Reply
  223. Rather than reply to Marty, we should just play bingo.
    Everyone make a 5×5 grid. Middle box is can be
    “HRC is worse than Bush and Nixon combined!”,
    so everyone gets to mark that off. Then write the numbers 1 to 24 at random in the grid. Then use the list to mark off your boxes whenever Marty hits one of them.
    1. Benghazi!
    2. Whitewater!
    3. Emails!
    4. Blacks vote for Clinton because they are bribed by all that welfare
    5. Don’t connect me with Trump!
    6. Bernie wuz robbed by HRC
    7. She was never under fire in Bosnia
    8. anything about Chelsea
    9 sex toys on the white house christmas tree
    10. Anti feminism
    11. She’s dissed libertarians!
    12. Monica!
    13. Hillary is spiteful
    14. Hillary won’t negotiate with Republicans!
    15. No one is voting for Hillary, everyone is voting against Trump
    16. She will stab [xxx] in the back!
    17. HRC made Trump become misogynist
    18. Something Bill did
    19. the woman card
    20. hiding stage 13 cancer
    The last 4 numbers are open for suggestions! I shouldn’t have all the fun!

    Reply
  224. Rather than reply to Marty, we should just play bingo.
    Everyone make a 5×5 grid. Middle box is can be
    “HRC is worse than Bush and Nixon combined!”,
    so everyone gets to mark that off. Then write the numbers 1 to 24 at random in the grid. Then use the list to mark off your boxes whenever Marty hits one of them.
    1. Benghazi!
    2. Whitewater!
    3. Emails!
    4. Blacks vote for Clinton because they are bribed by all that welfare
    5. Don’t connect me with Trump!
    6. Bernie wuz robbed by HRC
    7. She was never under fire in Bosnia
    8. anything about Chelsea
    9 sex toys on the white house christmas tree
    10. Anti feminism
    11. She’s dissed libertarians!
    12. Monica!
    13. Hillary is spiteful
    14. Hillary won’t negotiate with Republicans!
    15. No one is voting for Hillary, everyone is voting against Trump
    16. She will stab [xxx] in the back!
    17. HRC made Trump become misogynist
    18. Something Bill did
    19. the woman card
    20. hiding stage 13 cancer
    The last 4 numbers are open for suggestions! I shouldn’t have all the fun!

    Reply
  225. Rather than reply to Marty, we should just play bingo.
    Everyone make a 5×5 grid. Middle box is can be
    “HRC is worse than Bush and Nixon combined!”,
    so everyone gets to mark that off. Then write the numbers 1 to 24 at random in the grid. Then use the list to mark off your boxes whenever Marty hits one of them.
    1. Benghazi!
    2. Whitewater!
    3. Emails!
    4. Blacks vote for Clinton because they are bribed by all that welfare
    5. Don’t connect me with Trump!
    6. Bernie wuz robbed by HRC
    7. She was never under fire in Bosnia
    8. anything about Chelsea
    9 sex toys on the white house christmas tree
    10. Anti feminism
    11. She’s dissed libertarians!
    12. Monica!
    13. Hillary is spiteful
    14. Hillary won’t negotiate with Republicans!
    15. No one is voting for Hillary, everyone is voting against Trump
    16. She will stab [xxx] in the back!
    17. HRC made Trump become misogynist
    18. Something Bill did
    19. the woman card
    20. hiding stage 13 cancer
    The last 4 numbers are open for suggestions! I shouldn’t have all the fun!

    Reply
  226. 21, 22, 23, & 24: baby killer
    Marty lives in a mental universe in which 9th-month abortions of perfectly healthy fetuses are as commonplace as cops shooting black guys and even day-after abortions amount to damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    –TP

    Reply
  227. 21, 22, 23, & 24: baby killer
    Marty lives in a mental universe in which 9th-month abortions of perfectly healthy fetuses are as commonplace as cops shooting black guys and even day-after abortions amount to damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    –TP

    Reply
  228. 21, 22, 23, & 24: baby killer
    Marty lives in a mental universe in which 9th-month abortions of perfectly healthy fetuses are as commonplace as cops shooting black guys and even day-after abortions amount to damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    –TP

    Reply
  229. Russell,
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Is Trump actually under active investigation for these things? At least some of them were settled by payment of a fine or something, I thought.
    The one thing that ought to be investigated is the payment to Bondi, but I’m not aware there is any activity there.

    Reply
  230. Russell,
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Is Trump actually under active investigation for these things? At least some of them were settled by payment of a fine or something, I thought.
    The one thing that ought to be investigated is the payment to Bondi, but I’m not aware there is any activity there.

    Reply
  231. Russell,
    For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.
    Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.
    It’s perfectly well known.
    Nobody gives a crap.

    Is Trump actually under active investigation for these things? At least some of them were settled by payment of a fine or something, I thought.
    The one thing that ought to be investigated is the payment to Bondi, but I’m not aware there is any activity there.

    Reply
  232. From bobbyp’s link:

    Harsanyi, senior editor at The Federalist and author of the book The People Have Spoken (And They Are Wrong): The Case Against Democracy, is one of the most forthright voices. In a May 2016 op-ed in the Washington Post, he called for “weeding out millions of irresponsible voters who can’t be bothered to learn the rudimentary workings of the Constitution, or their preferred candidate’s proposals or even their history.” That way, he said, “we may be able to mitigate the recklessness of the electorate.” In effect, Harsanyi is calling for a return to old-style literacy tests once used to uphold Jim Crow disenfranchisement. But he assures readers that his proposed test wouldn’t have that kind of discriminatory effect, since it “would ensure that all races, creeds, genders and sexual orientations and people of every socioeconomic background are similarly inhibited from voting when ignorant.”

    What a great argument for letting only naturalized citizens vote:)
    We are all immigrants one way or t’other. As a port-of-entry immigrant, I have passed a test, sworn an oath, and have a certificate to prove it. More than most maternity-ward immigrants can say:)
    –TP

    Reply
  233. From bobbyp’s link:

    Harsanyi, senior editor at The Federalist and author of the book The People Have Spoken (And They Are Wrong): The Case Against Democracy, is one of the most forthright voices. In a May 2016 op-ed in the Washington Post, he called for “weeding out millions of irresponsible voters who can’t be bothered to learn the rudimentary workings of the Constitution, or their preferred candidate’s proposals or even their history.” That way, he said, “we may be able to mitigate the recklessness of the electorate.” In effect, Harsanyi is calling for a return to old-style literacy tests once used to uphold Jim Crow disenfranchisement. But he assures readers that his proposed test wouldn’t have that kind of discriminatory effect, since it “would ensure that all races, creeds, genders and sexual orientations and people of every socioeconomic background are similarly inhibited from voting when ignorant.”

    What a great argument for letting only naturalized citizens vote:)
    We are all immigrants one way or t’other. As a port-of-entry immigrant, I have passed a test, sworn an oath, and have a certificate to prove it. More than most maternity-ward immigrants can say:)
    –TP

    Reply
  234. From bobbyp’s link:

    Harsanyi, senior editor at The Federalist and author of the book The People Have Spoken (And They Are Wrong): The Case Against Democracy, is one of the most forthright voices. In a May 2016 op-ed in the Washington Post, he called for “weeding out millions of irresponsible voters who can’t be bothered to learn the rudimentary workings of the Constitution, or their preferred candidate’s proposals or even their history.” That way, he said, “we may be able to mitigate the recklessness of the electorate.” In effect, Harsanyi is calling for a return to old-style literacy tests once used to uphold Jim Crow disenfranchisement. But he assures readers that his proposed test wouldn’t have that kind of discriminatory effect, since it “would ensure that all races, creeds, genders and sexual orientations and people of every socioeconomic background are similarly inhibited from voting when ignorant.”

    What a great argument for letting only naturalized citizens vote:)
    We are all immigrants one way or t’other. As a port-of-entry immigrant, I have passed a test, sworn an oath, and have a certificate to prove it. More than most maternity-ward immigrants can say:)
    –TP

    Reply
  235. as has everyone who graduated from a NYS high school, i have passed several years’ worth of tests.
    the problem is remembering all that stuff years later!

    Reply
  236. as has everyone who graduated from a NYS high school, i have passed several years’ worth of tests.
    the problem is remembering all that stuff years later!

    Reply
  237. as has everyone who graduated from a NYS high school, i have passed several years’ worth of tests.
    the problem is remembering all that stuff years later!

    Reply
  238. I recall being told, in my high school civics class, that what we were learning was what immigrants learned in their naturalization classes. And our final exam was equivalent to the citizenship test. But it’s been so long, I wasn’t sure if high school seniors even had a civics class any more.

    Reply
  239. I recall being told, in my high school civics class, that what we were learning was what immigrants learned in their naturalization classes. And our final exam was equivalent to the citizenship test. But it’s been so long, I wasn’t sure if high school seniors even had a civics class any more.

    Reply
  240. I recall being told, in my high school civics class, that what we were learning was what immigrants learned in their naturalization classes. And our final exam was equivalent to the citizenship test. But it’s been so long, I wasn’t sure if high school seniors even had a civics class any more.

    Reply
  241. …abortions…damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    That’s heretical thought. The aborted, being unbaptized, go straight to Hell. Catholics may have deviated from that the last few years (against protests from traditional dogmatists), protestant orthodoxy has not (mainstreamers are just to cowardly to discuss it these days too openly).
    It’s one of the fundamental religious arguments against abortion since the days of St.Augustine who came up with this abominable idea in the first place.
    Reading his Confessiones I get the impression that the guy simply hated infants and it was his spiritual revenge against their annyoing crying to declare them hellfodder.

    Reply
  242. …abortions…damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    That’s heretical thought. The aborted, being unbaptized, go straight to Hell. Catholics may have deviated from that the last few years (against protests from traditional dogmatists), protestant orthodoxy has not (mainstreamers are just to cowardly to discuss it these days too openly).
    It’s one of the fundamental religious arguments against abortion since the days of St.Augustine who came up with this abominable idea in the first place.
    Reading his Confessiones I get the impression that the guy simply hated infants and it was his spiritual revenge against their annyoing crying to declare them hellfodder.

    Reply
  243. …abortions…damning innocent little souls to Heaven.
    That’s heretical thought. The aborted, being unbaptized, go straight to Hell. Catholics may have deviated from that the last few years (against protests from traditional dogmatists), protestant orthodoxy has not (mainstreamers are just to cowardly to discuss it these days too openly).
    It’s one of the fundamental religious arguments against abortion since the days of St.Augustine who came up with this abominable idea in the first place.
    Reading his Confessiones I get the impression that the guy simply hated infants and it was his spiritual revenge against their annyoing crying to declare them hellfodder.

    Reply
  244. Sure, literacy test.
    You have to prove that you can understand Navaho. Sounds fair to me.
    Hey, how about we apply the test to LEGISLATORS and GOVERNORS first, just to see how it works out?

    Reply
  245. Sure, literacy test.
    You have to prove that you can understand Navaho. Sounds fair to me.
    Hey, how about we apply the test to LEGISLATORS and GOVERNORS first, just to see how it works out?

    Reply
  246. Sure, literacy test.
    You have to prove that you can understand Navaho. Sounds fair to me.
    Hey, how about we apply the test to LEGISLATORS and GOVERNORS first, just to see how it works out?

    Reply
  247. But, but . . . so many Congressmen would fail!** Think what that would do to confidence in our institutions.
    ** OK, unless they get to design the test and decide what the answers should be. Which they would almost certainly insist on, for obvious reasons.

    Reply
  248. But, but . . . so many Congressmen would fail!** Think what that would do to confidence in our institutions.
    ** OK, unless they get to design the test and decide what the answers should be. Which they would almost certainly insist on, for obvious reasons.

    Reply
  249. But, but . . . so many Congressmen would fail!** Think what that would do to confidence in our institutions.
    ** OK, unless they get to design the test and decide what the answers should be. Which they would almost certainly insist on, for obvious reasons.

    Reply
  250. I like lj’s grid game. We know from past discussions that Marty thinks HRC has had a decades long “ongoing criminal career” (his actual words, if I remember correctly), but I love the detailed headings. However, I’m finding very few reasons to be cheerful because, in no particular order, let alone of global importance:
    1. My London flat is apparently suddenly overrun with mice
    2. I’m having a small operation to unblock my tearducts on Tuesday, and
    3. Donald Trump might end up being President because of Comey’s astonishing intervention.
    And we thought Brexit was bad.

    Reply
  251. I like lj’s grid game. We know from past discussions that Marty thinks HRC has had a decades long “ongoing criminal career” (his actual words, if I remember correctly), but I love the detailed headings. However, I’m finding very few reasons to be cheerful because, in no particular order, let alone of global importance:
    1. My London flat is apparently suddenly overrun with mice
    2. I’m having a small operation to unblock my tearducts on Tuesday, and
    3. Donald Trump might end up being President because of Comey’s astonishing intervention.
    And we thought Brexit was bad.

    Reply
  252. I like lj’s grid game. We know from past discussions that Marty thinks HRC has had a decades long “ongoing criminal career” (his actual words, if I remember correctly), but I love the detailed headings. However, I’m finding very few reasons to be cheerful because, in no particular order, let alone of global importance:
    1. My London flat is apparently suddenly overrun with mice
    2. I’m having a small operation to unblock my tearducts on Tuesday, and
    3. Donald Trump might end up being President because of Comey’s astonishing intervention.
    And we thought Brexit was bad.

    Reply
  253. “And we thought Brexit was bad.”
    Better get those tearducts working! They might be needed.
    The only bright spot of a Trump victory would hearing Hillary sing “Don’t Cry For Me, Civilization”.
    We’ll cry, anyway.

    Reply
  254. “And we thought Brexit was bad.”
    Better get those tearducts working! They might be needed.
    The only bright spot of a Trump victory would hearing Hillary sing “Don’t Cry For Me, Civilization”.
    We’ll cry, anyway.

    Reply
  255. “And we thought Brexit was bad.”
    Better get those tearducts working! They might be needed.
    The only bright spot of a Trump victory would hearing Hillary sing “Don’t Cry For Me, Civilization”.
    We’ll cry, anyway.

    Reply
  256. GftNC,
    Are your travails #2 and 3 related in some way?
    Here’s hoping your operation goes well but that your tears prove unnecessary!
    –TP

    Reply
  257. GftNC,
    Are your travails #2 and 3 related in some way?
    Here’s hoping your operation goes well but that your tears prove unnecessary!
    –TP

    Reply
  258. GftNC,
    Are your travails #2 and 3 related in some way?
    Here’s hoping your operation goes well but that your tears prove unnecessary!
    –TP

    Reply
  259. I keep forgetting, this comment is ACTUALLY RELEVANT to the post title:
    “Of COURSE schools are closing for election day because of terrorist threats. They’ve gotten increasingly twitchy about clowns, and there’s a CLOWN on the ballot!”
    I, for one, look forward to the designation of the Clown College as a “terrorist training camp”.

    Reply
  260. I keep forgetting, this comment is ACTUALLY RELEVANT to the post title:
    “Of COURSE schools are closing for election day because of terrorist threats. They’ve gotten increasingly twitchy about clowns, and there’s a CLOWN on the ballot!”
    I, for one, look forward to the designation of the Clown College as a “terrorist training camp”.

    Reply
  261. I keep forgetting, this comment is ACTUALLY RELEVANT to the post title:
    “Of COURSE schools are closing for election day because of terrorist threats. They’ve gotten increasingly twitchy about clowns, and there’s a CLOWN on the ballot!”
    I, for one, look forward to the designation of the Clown College as a “terrorist training camp”.

    Reply
  262. Lower tear ducts which don’t let moisture drain away mean liquid (as opposed to actual crying tears) floods down my face at unpredictable times, making driving on motorways hazardous. Also, I may need to cry a lot if Trump wins, obvs.
    But mice, people, mice! And I don’t live out in the great beyond, like Slarti and Marty and cleek. God knows where they’re coming from, or indeed where they’re going to, but apparently they’re partying like there’s no tomorrow (and for them, maybe there isn’t). We’re heading down to London (for the op) laden with humane traps, non-humane traps, poison (Mr GftNC’s non- sentimental solution) and fruit-and-nut chocolate with which to bait the traps. Any expertise with regard to rodent removal/termination would be much appreciated….

    Reply
  263. Lower tear ducts which don’t let moisture drain away mean liquid (as opposed to actual crying tears) floods down my face at unpredictable times, making driving on motorways hazardous. Also, I may need to cry a lot if Trump wins, obvs.
    But mice, people, mice! And I don’t live out in the great beyond, like Slarti and Marty and cleek. God knows where they’re coming from, or indeed where they’re going to, but apparently they’re partying like there’s no tomorrow (and for them, maybe there isn’t). We’re heading down to London (for the op) laden with humane traps, non-humane traps, poison (Mr GftNC’s non- sentimental solution) and fruit-and-nut chocolate with which to bait the traps. Any expertise with regard to rodent removal/termination would be much appreciated….

    Reply
  264. Lower tear ducts which don’t let moisture drain away mean liquid (as opposed to actual crying tears) floods down my face at unpredictable times, making driving on motorways hazardous. Also, I may need to cry a lot if Trump wins, obvs.
    But mice, people, mice! And I don’t live out in the great beyond, like Slarti and Marty and cleek. God knows where they’re coming from, or indeed where they’re going to, but apparently they’re partying like there’s no tomorrow (and for them, maybe there isn’t). We’re heading down to London (for the op) laden with humane traps, non-humane traps, poison (Mr GftNC’s non- sentimental solution) and fruit-and-nut chocolate with which to bait the traps. Any expertise with regard to rodent removal/termination would be much appreciated….

    Reply
  265. Yeah, if only. Problem is almost blind 97 year-old mother who lives in flat, hates cats and has not been informed about mice in case she freaks out.

    Reply
  266. Yeah, if only. Problem is almost blind 97 year-old mother who lives in flat, hates cats and has not been informed about mice in case she freaks out.

    Reply
  267. Yeah, if only. Problem is almost blind 97 year-old mother who lives in flat, hates cats and has not been informed about mice in case she freaks out.

    Reply
  268. GftNC: I bait mouse traps with a bit of cheese smeared with a bit of peanut butter. I have the impression that peanut butter isn’t all that popular over there, but it does seem to help attract the critters.
    I live in a very tightly built 20-year-old building, and I’ve never had a mouse in my apartment as such, but every now and then I get a little incursion into the attic. I’ll catch 2 or 3 and that always seems to be the end of it for the time being (despite people saying that if you have 2 you have 50…doesn’t seem to be true in this case). Once I found a dead mouse in a trap (cheese, peanut butter) that had been sitting in the attic for a couple of years since the previous incursion.
    Good luck with the op and the mice as well!

    Reply
  269. GftNC: I bait mouse traps with a bit of cheese smeared with a bit of peanut butter. I have the impression that peanut butter isn’t all that popular over there, but it does seem to help attract the critters.
    I live in a very tightly built 20-year-old building, and I’ve never had a mouse in my apartment as such, but every now and then I get a little incursion into the attic. I’ll catch 2 or 3 and that always seems to be the end of it for the time being (despite people saying that if you have 2 you have 50…doesn’t seem to be true in this case). Once I found a dead mouse in a trap (cheese, peanut butter) that had been sitting in the attic for a couple of years since the previous incursion.
    Good luck with the op and the mice as well!

    Reply
  270. GftNC: I bait mouse traps with a bit of cheese smeared with a bit of peanut butter. I have the impression that peanut butter isn’t all that popular over there, but it does seem to help attract the critters.
    I live in a very tightly built 20-year-old building, and I’ve never had a mouse in my apartment as such, but every now and then I get a little incursion into the attic. I’ll catch 2 or 3 and that always seems to be the end of it for the time being (despite people saying that if you have 2 you have 50…doesn’t seem to be true in this case). Once I found a dead mouse in a trap (cheese, peanut butter) that had been sitting in the attic for a couple of years since the previous incursion.
    Good luck with the op and the mice as well!

    Reply
  271. To clarify, the baited trap had been sitting in the attic for two years, untriggered. Then a mouse came along and still thought the bait might be yummy…..

    Reply
  272. To clarify, the baited trap had been sitting in the attic for two years, untriggered. Then a mouse came along and still thought the bait might be yummy…..

    Reply
  273. To clarify, the baited trap had been sitting in the attic for two years, untriggered. Then a mouse came along and still thought the bait might be yummy…..

    Reply
  274. I have to second the effectiveness of a cat for rodent control.
    You don’t have to adopt one. I just borrowed a neighbors pet for 24 hours and my rat problem disappeared. No evidence that it caught one, perhaps they just figured out my studio it was not such a fun place anymore.

    Reply
  275. I have to second the effectiveness of a cat for rodent control.
    You don’t have to adopt one. I just borrowed a neighbors pet for 24 hours and my rat problem disappeared. No evidence that it caught one, perhaps they just figured out my studio it was not such a fun place anymore.

    Reply
  276. I have to second the effectiveness of a cat for rodent control.
    You don’t have to adopt one. I just borrowed a neighbors pet for 24 hours and my rat problem disappeared. No evidence that it caught one, perhaps they just figured out my studio it was not such a fun place anymore.

    Reply
  277. Yes Jack (and Sapient), I’m pretty sure that could work from prior experience, but a) I don’t know anybody with a cat I could borrow for a day or two, and b) if a cat came to visit for a while it would take a lot of explaining to the ancient parent, and if she picked up on the mouse sitch she might be scared for a long, long time. Frankly, since she has been having plenty of sensory hallucinations anyway (the house is on fire, poison gas is seeping into the flat etc etc), which have made her very agitated until the anti-psychotics took effect, I’m super-reluctant to introduce more causes of anxiety.

    Reply
  278. Yes Jack (and Sapient), I’m pretty sure that could work from prior experience, but a) I don’t know anybody with a cat I could borrow for a day or two, and b) if a cat came to visit for a while it would take a lot of explaining to the ancient parent, and if she picked up on the mouse sitch she might be scared for a long, long time. Frankly, since she has been having plenty of sensory hallucinations anyway (the house is on fire, poison gas is seeping into the flat etc etc), which have made her very agitated until the anti-psychotics took effect, I’m super-reluctant to introduce more causes of anxiety.

    Reply
  279. Yes Jack (and Sapient), I’m pretty sure that could work from prior experience, but a) I don’t know anybody with a cat I could borrow for a day or two, and b) if a cat came to visit for a while it would take a lot of explaining to the ancient parent, and if she picked up on the mouse sitch she might be scared for a long, long time. Frankly, since she has been having plenty of sensory hallucinations anyway (the house is on fire, poison gas is seeping into the flat etc etc), which have made her very agitated until the anti-psychotics took effect, I’m super-reluctant to introduce more causes of anxiety.

    Reply
  280. A female cat (spayed, of course).
    Of curiosity, why a female? Of the cats I’ve known, the gibs were generally better mousers than the spays, and honestly I’d say they had more agreeable personalities as well.

    Reply
  281. A female cat (spayed, of course).
    Of curiosity, why a female? Of the cats I’ve known, the gibs were generally better mousers than the spays, and honestly I’d say they had more agreeable personalities as well.

    Reply
  282. A female cat (spayed, of course).
    Of curiosity, why a female? Of the cats I’ve known, the gibs were generally better mousers than the spays, and honestly I’d say they had more agreeable personalities as well.

    Reply
  283. It’s the cat SMELL that keeps mice away, since mice have highly developed sense of smell.
    So, all it really takes is some slightly used cat litter.
    The peanut butter is very effective as a bait because mice smell it, and it doesn’t dry out as rapidly as cheese.
    Not sure if they have them in the UK, but the traps made of plastic (not the traditional “wood base, metal death hoop) are much easier to set.
    Here’s an Amazon URL for the type: https://www.amazon.com/Tomcat-Press-Mouse-Trap-2-Pack/dp/B00N6XKVNY/ref=sr_1_8
    A few years back, had a mouse problem. One of the traps “went missing” in the attic. Never found it.

    Reply
  284. It’s the cat SMELL that keeps mice away, since mice have highly developed sense of smell.
    So, all it really takes is some slightly used cat litter.
    The peanut butter is very effective as a bait because mice smell it, and it doesn’t dry out as rapidly as cheese.
    Not sure if they have them in the UK, but the traps made of plastic (not the traditional “wood base, metal death hoop) are much easier to set.
    Here’s an Amazon URL for the type: https://www.amazon.com/Tomcat-Press-Mouse-Trap-2-Pack/dp/B00N6XKVNY/ref=sr_1_8
    A few years back, had a mouse problem. One of the traps “went missing” in the attic. Never found it.

    Reply
  285. It’s the cat SMELL that keeps mice away, since mice have highly developed sense of smell.
    So, all it really takes is some slightly used cat litter.
    The peanut butter is very effective as a bait because mice smell it, and it doesn’t dry out as rapidly as cheese.
    Not sure if they have them in the UK, but the traps made of plastic (not the traditional “wood base, metal death hoop) are much easier to set.
    Here’s an Amazon URL for the type: https://www.amazon.com/Tomcat-Press-Mouse-Trap-2-Pack/dp/B00N6XKVNY/ref=sr_1_8
    A few years back, had a mouse problem. One of the traps “went missing” in the attic. Never found it.

    Reply
  286. Snarki, that looks like a perfect trap, but I have just checked and it is not available in the UK. I’ll see how things go in the next few days with the 2 x old-fashioned wood base, death metal hoop traps and the 1 x plastic humane trap, all set with chocolate smeared with peanut butter. Mr GftNC is also going to stuff any holes he can find with steel wool, which is apparently the only thing they can’t chew through. If that doesn’t work, we’ll have to call in the professionals, but the last time I had them in, many years ago, they put down poison which was never touched, traps which never caught anything, and the only thing which seemed to work, from then til now, was the steel wool.

    Reply
  287. Snarki, that looks like a perfect trap, but I have just checked and it is not available in the UK. I’ll see how things go in the next few days with the 2 x old-fashioned wood base, death metal hoop traps and the 1 x plastic humane trap, all set with chocolate smeared with peanut butter. Mr GftNC is also going to stuff any holes he can find with steel wool, which is apparently the only thing they can’t chew through. If that doesn’t work, we’ll have to call in the professionals, but the last time I had them in, many years ago, they put down poison which was never touched, traps which never caught anything, and the only thing which seemed to work, from then til now, was the steel wool.

    Reply
  288. Snarki, that looks like a perfect trap, but I have just checked and it is not available in the UK. I’ll see how things go in the next few days with the 2 x old-fashioned wood base, death metal hoop traps and the 1 x plastic humane trap, all set with chocolate smeared with peanut butter. Mr GftNC is also going to stuff any holes he can find with steel wool, which is apparently the only thing they can’t chew through. If that doesn’t work, we’ll have to call in the professionals, but the last time I had them in, many years ago, they put down poison which was never touched, traps which never caught anything, and the only thing which seemed to work, from then til now, was the steel wool.

    Reply
  289. Snarki, update: we have located the same traps on ebay.co.uk and have ordered a couple which should be here in a couple of weeks. Most of the customer reviews say they are gory in the extreme, but these traps are obviously a lot more effective than others, so if we still have mice when they arrive, it looks like we may not have them much longer. Many, many thanks, and as I said, will send rodent-related update in due course in case anybody else is interested.

    Reply
  290. Snarki, update: we have located the same traps on ebay.co.uk and have ordered a couple which should be here in a couple of weeks. Most of the customer reviews say they are gory in the extreme, but these traps are obviously a lot more effective than others, so if we still have mice when they arrive, it looks like we may not have them much longer. Many, many thanks, and as I said, will send rodent-related update in due course in case anybody else is interested.

    Reply
  291. Snarki, update: we have located the same traps on ebay.co.uk and have ordered a couple which should be here in a couple of weeks. Most of the customer reviews say they are gory in the extreme, but these traps are obviously a lot more effective than others, so if we still have mice when they arrive, it looks like we may not have them much longer. Many, many thanks, and as I said, will send rodent-related update in due course in case anybody else is interested.

    Reply
  292. I just had to clear a trap this afternoon; one of the “tom cat” traps. Not gory at all! Yes, there are “teeth” on the jaws of the trap, but they’re plastic, and not sharp. If mess is an issue, put the trap on a piece of cardboard. Multiple traps should be far enough away that Mouse#1 doesn’t see the fate of Mouse#2.
    The wire traps are more likely to give gory results, IME.
    Also filling holes with aluminum foil (“aluminium” for you, GftNC) keeps mice out; think about the last time you bit into a piece of foil. You just have to cram the foil in sufficiently that it can’t be pawed out.

    Reply
  293. I just had to clear a trap this afternoon; one of the “tom cat” traps. Not gory at all! Yes, there are “teeth” on the jaws of the trap, but they’re plastic, and not sharp. If mess is an issue, put the trap on a piece of cardboard. Multiple traps should be far enough away that Mouse#1 doesn’t see the fate of Mouse#2.
    The wire traps are more likely to give gory results, IME.
    Also filling holes with aluminum foil (“aluminium” for you, GftNC) keeps mice out; think about the last time you bit into a piece of foil. You just have to cram the foil in sufficiently that it can’t be pawed out.

    Reply
  294. I just had to clear a trap this afternoon; one of the “tom cat” traps. Not gory at all! Yes, there are “teeth” on the jaws of the trap, but they’re plastic, and not sharp. If mess is an issue, put the trap on a piece of cardboard. Multiple traps should be far enough away that Mouse#1 doesn’t see the fate of Mouse#2.
    The wire traps are more likely to give gory results, IME.
    Also filling holes with aluminum foil (“aluminium” for you, GftNC) keeps mice out; think about the last time you bit into a piece of foil. You just have to cram the foil in sufficiently that it can’t be pawed out.

    Reply
  295. In my experience, male cats are lazy and affectionate. Female cats work. Just anecdotal.
    Anecdotal for house cats, maybe, but I believe it is generally true for lions, at least. Though I’m not sure “affectionate” is the most accurate term.

    Reply
  296. In my experience, male cats are lazy and affectionate. Female cats work. Just anecdotal.
    Anecdotal for house cats, maybe, but I believe it is generally true for lions, at least. Though I’m not sure “affectionate” is the most accurate term.

    Reply
  297. In my experience, male cats are lazy and affectionate. Female cats work. Just anecdotal.
    Anecdotal for house cats, maybe, but I believe it is generally true for lions, at least. Though I’m not sure “affectionate” is the most accurate term.

    Reply
  298. I believe it is generally true for lions, at least.
    I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size. And size matters, because if my female cat were a lion, I’d be a goner.

    Reply
  299. I believe it is generally true for lions, at least.
    I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size. And size matters, because if my female cat were a lion, I’d be a goner.

    Reply
  300. I believe it is generally true for lions, at least.
    I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size. And size matters, because if my female cat were a lion, I’d be a goner.

    Reply
  301. strange bedfellows. good times.
    I’m a nervous wreck. I haven’t had this much anxiety over something not directly my responsibility in my life. I hope it goes away after the election, but somehow I think that no matter who wins it will be the new normal.

    Reply
  302. strange bedfellows. good times.
    I’m a nervous wreck. I haven’t had this much anxiety over something not directly my responsibility in my life. I hope it goes away after the election, but somehow I think that no matter who wins it will be the new normal.

    Reply
  303. strange bedfellows. good times.
    I’m a nervous wreck. I haven’t had this much anxiety over something not directly my responsibility in my life. I hope it goes away after the election, but somehow I think that no matter who wins it will be the new normal.

    Reply
  304. I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size.
    Enh, not really. Lions are oddballs because they’re social, and yes, the females do most of the hunting. Cheetahs are social as well, but they tend to have less division of labor. For the rest of the big cats (and large-cats-that-technically-aren’t-big-cats), males have significantly larger ranges and are very territorial, while the females have smaller ranges but if they do overlap they’re less likely to fight.

    Reply
  305. I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size.
    Enh, not really. Lions are oddballs because they’re social, and yes, the females do most of the hunting. Cheetahs are social as well, but they tend to have less division of labor. For the rest of the big cats (and large-cats-that-technically-aren’t-big-cats), males have significantly larger ranges and are very territorial, while the females have smaller ranges but if they do overlap they’re less likely to fight.

    Reply
  306. I think they’re all kind of the same, except for the size.
    Enh, not really. Lions are oddballs because they’re social, and yes, the females do most of the hunting. Cheetahs are social as well, but they tend to have less division of labor. For the rest of the big cats (and large-cats-that-technically-aren’t-big-cats), males have significantly larger ranges and are very territorial, while the females have smaller ranges but if they do overlap they’re less likely to fight.

    Reply
  307. Well golly gee…Bill Clinton figures out a way to cash in after his stint at public service, just like every other Tom, Dick, and Harry Congresscritter does the minute they lose an election.
    That rich people would expect “something” for their “charitable giving” should come as NO SURPRISE, but no, not in the case of the Clintons.
    Better they should have both retired to a monastery in 2001, or sat around in a small house in Arkansas barely getting by just as Harry Truman endured in his retirement.
    Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    Reply
  308. Well golly gee…Bill Clinton figures out a way to cash in after his stint at public service, just like every other Tom, Dick, and Harry Congresscritter does the minute they lose an election.
    That rich people would expect “something” for their “charitable giving” should come as NO SURPRISE, but no, not in the case of the Clintons.
    Better they should have both retired to a monastery in 2001, or sat around in a small house in Arkansas barely getting by just as Harry Truman endured in his retirement.
    Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    Reply
  309. Well golly gee…Bill Clinton figures out a way to cash in after his stint at public service, just like every other Tom, Dick, and Harry Congresscritter does the minute they lose an election.
    That rich people would expect “something” for their “charitable giving” should come as NO SURPRISE, but no, not in the case of the Clintons.
    Better they should have both retired to a monastery in 2001, or sat around in a small house in Arkansas barely getting by just as Harry Truman endured in his retirement.
    Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    Reply
  310. This email thing is a measure of how easy it is for hyper-partisan rightwingers to play the media and some of the public.
    Just get the words “email, investigate and Clinton” into the media and a percentage of the population with froth at the mouth like Pavlov’s dogs.
    We are supposed to be rational creatures created in the image of god, not credulous haters.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    The emails will not turn out to be national security leaks that she hid from the other investigation. They will not turn out to be proof of a nefarious plot to do some unspecified but horrendously awful thing that confirms the worst fears of the rightwing fever swamp and proves that the haters have been right along.
    Most likely they will be duplicates of emails she already turned over.
    But that won’t keep hyper-partisan haters from leaking the right words to the media to get more mouth frothing from people who should know better.
    In the end this rightwing smear will be like all the others: there will be no substance to it by haters will repeat it forever as id there was substance because they want to hate for their own reasons that have nothing to do with Clinton herself.

    Reply
  311. This email thing is a measure of how easy it is for hyper-partisan rightwingers to play the media and some of the public.
    Just get the words “email, investigate and Clinton” into the media and a percentage of the population with froth at the mouth like Pavlov’s dogs.
    We are supposed to be rational creatures created in the image of god, not credulous haters.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    The emails will not turn out to be national security leaks that she hid from the other investigation. They will not turn out to be proof of a nefarious plot to do some unspecified but horrendously awful thing that confirms the worst fears of the rightwing fever swamp and proves that the haters have been right along.
    Most likely they will be duplicates of emails she already turned over.
    But that won’t keep hyper-partisan haters from leaking the right words to the media to get more mouth frothing from people who should know better.
    In the end this rightwing smear will be like all the others: there will be no substance to it by haters will repeat it forever as id there was substance because they want to hate for their own reasons that have nothing to do with Clinton herself.

    Reply
  312. This email thing is a measure of how easy it is for hyper-partisan rightwingers to play the media and some of the public.
    Just get the words “email, investigate and Clinton” into the media and a percentage of the population with froth at the mouth like Pavlov’s dogs.
    We are supposed to be rational creatures created in the image of god, not credulous haters.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    The emails will not turn out to be national security leaks that she hid from the other investigation. They will not turn out to be proof of a nefarious plot to do some unspecified but horrendously awful thing that confirms the worst fears of the rightwing fever swamp and proves that the haters have been right along.
    Most likely they will be duplicates of emails she already turned over.
    But that won’t keep hyper-partisan haters from leaking the right words to the media to get more mouth frothing from people who should know better.
    In the end this rightwing smear will be like all the others: there will be no substance to it by haters will repeat it forever as id there was substance because they want to hate for their own reasons that have nothing to do with Clinton herself.

    Reply
  313. A right-winger friend of mine shared this with me, noting how I’m always responding to his arguments with “charts and graphs” (a.k.a. “data” or “facts”). It’s a goofy RW “analysis” of what are supposedly the 100 most damaging wikileaks.
    The descriptions of what the emails say or mean vary from questionable assumptions in the face of ambiguity and lack of context to blatantly purposeful misinterpretations to having no discernible connection to the text being described. It’s mostly run-of-the-mill campaign crap that any political campaign’s staff would privately engage in.
    These ridiculous interpretations go to show why these “bombshells” are nothing of the sort. The complaints over the lack of media coverage on this stuff seem to ignore that it’s mostly inconsequential and, for most people, boring. I find it somewhat interesting in a voyeuristic way, just having the opportunity to see insider stuff like this, but my pearls remain unclutched.

    Reply
  314. A right-winger friend of mine shared this with me, noting how I’m always responding to his arguments with “charts and graphs” (a.k.a. “data” or “facts”). It’s a goofy RW “analysis” of what are supposedly the 100 most damaging wikileaks.
    The descriptions of what the emails say or mean vary from questionable assumptions in the face of ambiguity and lack of context to blatantly purposeful misinterpretations to having no discernible connection to the text being described. It’s mostly run-of-the-mill campaign crap that any political campaign’s staff would privately engage in.
    These ridiculous interpretations go to show why these “bombshells” are nothing of the sort. The complaints over the lack of media coverage on this stuff seem to ignore that it’s mostly inconsequential and, for most people, boring. I find it somewhat interesting in a voyeuristic way, just having the opportunity to see insider stuff like this, but my pearls remain unclutched.

    Reply
  315. A right-winger friend of mine shared this with me, noting how I’m always responding to his arguments with “charts and graphs” (a.k.a. “data” or “facts”). It’s a goofy RW “analysis” of what are supposedly the 100 most damaging wikileaks.
    The descriptions of what the emails say or mean vary from questionable assumptions in the face of ambiguity and lack of context to blatantly purposeful misinterpretations to having no discernible connection to the text being described. It’s mostly run-of-the-mill campaign crap that any political campaign’s staff would privately engage in.
    These ridiculous interpretations go to show why these “bombshells” are nothing of the sort. The complaints over the lack of media coverage on this stuff seem to ignore that it’s mostly inconsequential and, for most people, boring. I find it somewhat interesting in a voyeuristic way, just having the opportunity to see insider stuff like this, but my pearls remain unclutched.

    Reply
  316. Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    It allows the FBI director to raise the possibility (without any real prospect of proof before the election) that there is the scintilla of a possiblity that there might be an email in there which isn’t a duplicate of those already disclosed… and that said email is proof of … whatever. Oh, and prior even to obtaining legal clearance to look at said emails.
    Which enables ‘worse than Watergate bomshell’ type headlines.
    I was slightly amused that Bush Minor’s former chief of ethics (a not undemanding post in that administration) has raised a formal complaint against Comey over this.

    Reply
  317. Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    It allows the FBI director to raise the possibility (without any real prospect of proof before the election) that there is the scintilla of a possiblity that there might be an email in there which isn’t a duplicate of those already disclosed… and that said email is proof of … whatever. Oh, and prior even to obtaining legal clearance to look at said emails.
    Which enables ‘worse than Watergate bomshell’ type headlines.
    I was slightly amused that Bush Minor’s former chief of ethics (a not undemanding post in that administration) has raised a formal complaint against Comey over this.

    Reply
  318. Nigel, that was a classic in the genre, Clinton Rules.
    I hold no great brief for the Clintons, but for Christ’s sake, enough already.

    I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    So what if she sent emails to an aide who is not under investigation for anything? What monstrous crime is this supposed to prove? OR even imply?
    It allows the FBI director to raise the possibility (without any real prospect of proof before the election) that there is the scintilla of a possiblity that there might be an email in there which isn’t a duplicate of those already disclosed… and that said email is proof of … whatever. Oh, and prior even to obtaining legal clearance to look at said emails.
    Which enables ‘worse than Watergate bomshell’ type headlines.
    I was slightly amused that Bush Minor’s former chief of ethics (a not undemanding post in that administration) has raised a formal complaint against Comey over this.

    Reply
  319. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!

    2016: Year of the Red Fire Monkey and the Super Shemitah
    For those who are not aware, 2016 has seen a convergence of two major calendrical events: the Chinese Year of the Fire Monkey has occurred in the same year as the Super Shemitah. Many have already dismissed the influences of these two HUGE forces operating in the background. Not only have they done so at their peril, they have lost precious time necessary to get their house in order. And, to get prepared for just about anything in the coming year.
    2016: A Year of Super Convergence and Awesome Consequence
    The last time the same astrological energies occurred simultaneously, especially while Pluto cruised through Capricorn, the American Declaration of Independence was signed and the American Revolution commenced in earnest in 1776. For those who are initiated into this realm, Donald Trump clearly represents the Fire Monkey energy. And 2016 has seen his coming out party.
    The Earth-Shaking Year of the Red Fire Monkey Begins On February 8, 2016
    When functioning as a highly evolved Fire Monkey, this indomitable character is virtually unstoppable at whatever he attempts to achieve. Therefore, Donald Trump cannot lose. No matter what stunts the Democratic Party attempts to pull, or legal gambit the DNC tries to make, Trump is curiously in the driver’s seat. Not only can he do no wrong, the Clintonistas can do no right. Remember, Donald Trump cannot lose this year irrespective of what he does or does not do.
    So, if Hillary does steal the election, she will spend the next four plus years trying to prevent being evicted from the POTUS high office. Her stars are so misaligned and working at such cross purposes that she cannot even get out of her own way. More importantly, many of her traditional allies will get out of her way as they begin to desert her and her phony causes. They will have witnessed the real Hillary Clinton in such a way that they will not want to be associated with her in any way, shape or form.

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/there-are-only-3-outcomes-after-the-november-8-election/

    Reply
  320. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!

    2016: Year of the Red Fire Monkey and the Super Shemitah
    For those who are not aware, 2016 has seen a convergence of two major calendrical events: the Chinese Year of the Fire Monkey has occurred in the same year as the Super Shemitah. Many have already dismissed the influences of these two HUGE forces operating in the background. Not only have they done so at their peril, they have lost precious time necessary to get their house in order. And, to get prepared for just about anything in the coming year.
    2016: A Year of Super Convergence and Awesome Consequence
    The last time the same astrological energies occurred simultaneously, especially while Pluto cruised through Capricorn, the American Declaration of Independence was signed and the American Revolution commenced in earnest in 1776. For those who are initiated into this realm, Donald Trump clearly represents the Fire Monkey energy. And 2016 has seen his coming out party.
    The Earth-Shaking Year of the Red Fire Monkey Begins On February 8, 2016
    When functioning as a highly evolved Fire Monkey, this indomitable character is virtually unstoppable at whatever he attempts to achieve. Therefore, Donald Trump cannot lose. No matter what stunts the Democratic Party attempts to pull, or legal gambit the DNC tries to make, Trump is curiously in the driver’s seat. Not only can he do no wrong, the Clintonistas can do no right. Remember, Donald Trump cannot lose this year irrespective of what he does or does not do.
    So, if Hillary does steal the election, she will spend the next four plus years trying to prevent being evicted from the POTUS high office. Her stars are so misaligned and working at such cross purposes that she cannot even get out of her own way. More importantly, many of her traditional allies will get out of her way as they begin to desert her and her phony causes. They will have witnessed the real Hillary Clinton in such a way that they will not want to be associated with her in any way, shape or form.

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/there-are-only-3-outcomes-after-the-november-8-election/

    Reply
  321. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!

    2016: Year of the Red Fire Monkey and the Super Shemitah
    For those who are not aware, 2016 has seen a convergence of two major calendrical events: the Chinese Year of the Fire Monkey has occurred in the same year as the Super Shemitah. Many have already dismissed the influences of these two HUGE forces operating in the background. Not only have they done so at their peril, they have lost precious time necessary to get their house in order. And, to get prepared for just about anything in the coming year.
    2016: A Year of Super Convergence and Awesome Consequence
    The last time the same astrological energies occurred simultaneously, especially while Pluto cruised through Capricorn, the American Declaration of Independence was signed and the American Revolution commenced in earnest in 1776. For those who are initiated into this realm, Donald Trump clearly represents the Fire Monkey energy. And 2016 has seen his coming out party.
    The Earth-Shaking Year of the Red Fire Monkey Begins On February 8, 2016
    When functioning as a highly evolved Fire Monkey, this indomitable character is virtually unstoppable at whatever he attempts to achieve. Therefore, Donald Trump cannot lose. No matter what stunts the Democratic Party attempts to pull, or legal gambit the DNC tries to make, Trump is curiously in the driver’s seat. Not only can he do no wrong, the Clintonistas can do no right. Remember, Donald Trump cannot lose this year irrespective of what he does or does not do.
    So, if Hillary does steal the election, she will spend the next four plus years trying to prevent being evicted from the POTUS high office. Her stars are so misaligned and working at such cross purposes that she cannot even get out of her own way. More importantly, many of her traditional allies will get out of her way as they begin to desert her and her phony causes. They will have witnessed the real Hillary Clinton in such a way that they will not want to be associated with her in any way, shape or form.

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/there-are-only-3-outcomes-after-the-november-8-election/

    Reply
  322. Comey’s statement on the “new” emails reminds me of the “lost” IRS emails – it’s the best thing possible for the GOP.
    In both cases, they can project whatever content onto those emails they want to and bleat that if we just had them they would “prove” that Obama ordered the IRS to oppress the conserative grass roots and erase all the evidence and that HRC personally tore the heart out of the Benghazi victims with her teeth and sold U.S. nuclear secrets to Clinton foundation donors without any worry of ever being contradicted – or at least not contradicted before the election, after which it won’t matter because no one will remember the details.

    Reply
  323. Comey’s statement on the “new” emails reminds me of the “lost” IRS emails – it’s the best thing possible for the GOP.
    In both cases, they can project whatever content onto those emails they want to and bleat that if we just had them they would “prove” that Obama ordered the IRS to oppress the conserative grass roots and erase all the evidence and that HRC personally tore the heart out of the Benghazi victims with her teeth and sold U.S. nuclear secrets to Clinton foundation donors without any worry of ever being contradicted – or at least not contradicted before the election, after which it won’t matter because no one will remember the details.

    Reply
  324. Comey’s statement on the “new” emails reminds me of the “lost” IRS emails – it’s the best thing possible for the GOP.
    In both cases, they can project whatever content onto those emails they want to and bleat that if we just had them they would “prove” that Obama ordered the IRS to oppress the conserative grass roots and erase all the evidence and that HRC personally tore the heart out of the Benghazi victims with her teeth and sold U.S. nuclear secrets to Clinton foundation donors without any worry of ever being contradicted – or at least not contradicted before the election, after which it won’t matter because no one will remember the details.

    Reply
  325. I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    I read it as damning with faint praise, but yes, YMMV 🙂

    Reply
  326. I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    I read it as damning with faint praise, but yes, YMMV 🙂

    Reply
  327. I read it as a reasonable explanation of why the Foundation wasn’t actually corrupt, but YMMV.
    I read it as damning with faint praise, but yes, YMMV 🙂

    Reply
  328. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!
    The same friend praised the latest James O’Keefe offering as “what real journalists are supposed to be doing.”
    As an aside, this guy graduated from Northwestern, at least was fluent in Spanish (may have since lost fluency from disuse), spent time in Ecuador (I think – but somewhere in that part of South America) doing charitable volunteer work, is active in Rotary, coaches his kids’ sports teams, has a great dry sense of humor, etc., etc.
    But staunch conservatism/Republicanism is more or less the family religion. It’s really fncking weird to me how otherwise good-natured and intelligent people can accept such blatant bullshit. There it is, none the less.

    Reply
  329. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!
    The same friend praised the latest James O’Keefe offering as “what real journalists are supposed to be doing.”
    As an aside, this guy graduated from Northwestern, at least was fluent in Spanish (may have since lost fluency from disuse), spent time in Ecuador (I think – but somewhere in that part of South America) doing charitable volunteer work, is active in Rotary, coaches his kids’ sports teams, has a great dry sense of humor, etc., etc.
    But staunch conservatism/Republicanism is more or less the family religion. It’s really fncking weird to me how otherwise good-natured and intelligent people can accept such blatant bullshit. There it is, none the less.

    Reply
  330. that Millennium Report site seems totally legit!
    The same friend praised the latest James O’Keefe offering as “what real journalists are supposed to be doing.”
    As an aside, this guy graduated from Northwestern, at least was fluent in Spanish (may have since lost fluency from disuse), spent time in Ecuador (I think – but somewhere in that part of South America) doing charitable volunteer work, is active in Rotary, coaches his kids’ sports teams, has a great dry sense of humor, etc., etc.
    But staunch conservatism/Republicanism is more or less the family religion. It’s really fncking weird to me how otherwise good-natured and intelligent people can accept such blatant bullshit. There it is, none the less.

    Reply
  331. In fairness, this was the link he shared. I thought that Millennium Report looked weird. But the “analysis” is the same. Millennium Report just lifted the text.

    Reply
  332. In fairness, this was the link he shared. I thought that Millennium Report looked weird. But the “analysis” is the same. Millennium Report just lifted the text.

    Reply
  333. In fairness, this was the link he shared. I thought that Millennium Report looked weird. But the “analysis” is the same. Millennium Report just lifted the text.

    Reply
  334. Your GOP Chairman of the Senate Intelligemce Committee ladies and gentlemen
    So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life. They’ve been slimy thugs since Nixon, and nothing has changed.

    Reply
  335. Your GOP Chairman of the Senate Intelligemce Committee ladies and gentlemen
    So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life. They’ve been slimy thugs since Nixon, and nothing has changed.

    Reply
  336. Your GOP Chairman of the Senate Intelligemce Committee ladies and gentlemen
    So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life. They’ve been slimy thugs since Nixon, and nothing has changed.

    Reply
  337. So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life.
    sapient, you know as well as anyone that you’re not getting called an apparatchik for persistently being opposed to Republicans. You get called an apparatchik for persistently refusing to entertain (or even tolerate) any meaningful criticism of the orthodox Democratic establishment. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.

    Reply
  338. So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life.
    sapient, you know as well as anyone that you’re not getting called an apparatchik for persistently being opposed to Republicans. You get called an apparatchik for persistently refusing to entertain (or even tolerate) any meaningful criticism of the orthodox Democratic establishment. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.

    Reply
  339. So happy to be a Democratic “apparatchik”, working against these fn$^s for my entire life.
    sapient, you know as well as anyone that you’re not getting called an apparatchik for persistently being opposed to Republicans. You get called an apparatchik for persistently refusing to entertain (or even tolerate) any meaningful criticism of the orthodox Democratic establishment. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.

    Reply
  340. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.
    I’ll embrace the word “apparatchik” on my own terms. You are welcome to be a perpetual skeptic [cynic], but shooting your own friends is not how positive change happens. The Democratic “establishment” is made up of people who have been working against the Republican horror story for a very long time, with the tools that were available as we were fighting. I’m one of those Democrats, and quite proud of it.

    Reply
  341. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.
    I’ll embrace the word “apparatchik” on my own terms. You are welcome to be a perpetual skeptic [cynic], but shooting your own friends is not how positive change happens. The Democratic “establishment” is made up of people who have been working against the Republican horror story for a very long time, with the tools that were available as we were fighting. I’m one of those Democrats, and quite proud of it.

    Reply
  342. Someone doesn’t achieve partisan hack status by doggedly attacking their party’s enemies; they achieve that status by categorically refusing to critically examine the actions of their party.
    I’ll embrace the word “apparatchik” on my own terms. You are welcome to be a perpetual skeptic [cynic], but shooting your own friends is not how positive change happens. The Democratic “establishment” is made up of people who have been working against the Republican horror story for a very long time, with the tools that were available as we were fighting. I’m one of those Democrats, and quite proud of it.

    Reply
  343. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds. Before they change their minds it is typical to find activists criticizing them for their backwards positions, often in heated terms. All part of the process. Campaign seasons are the worst time to discuss issues, because almost everything revolves around either helping or hurting the images of the candidates. For some people it’s always campaign season.
    No doubt after the election ( which hopefully Clinton wins) nearly everyone will go back to focusing on issues. Yes, that last sentence was snark.

    Reply
  344. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds. Before they change their minds it is typical to find activists criticizing them for their backwards positions, often in heated terms. All part of the process. Campaign seasons are the worst time to discuss issues, because almost everything revolves around either helping or hurting the images of the candidates. For some people it’s always campaign season.
    No doubt after the election ( which hopefully Clinton wins) nearly everyone will go back to focusing on issues. Yes, that last sentence was snark.

    Reply
  345. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds. Before they change their minds it is typical to find activists criticizing them for their backwards positions, often in heated terms. All part of the process. Campaign seasons are the worst time to discuss issues, because almost everything revolves around either helping or hurting the images of the candidates. For some people it’s always campaign season.
    No doubt after the election ( which hopefully Clinton wins) nearly everyone will go back to focusing on issues. Yes, that last sentence was snark.

    Reply
  346. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds.
    sometimes, yes.
    other times it happens simply because the opposition to change is no longer in power.

    Reply
  347. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds.
    sometimes, yes.
    other times it happens simply because the opposition to change is no longer in power.

    Reply
  348. Positive change on issues comes from people who take stands on the issues and eventually, if the change occurs, it’s because enough people are persuaded that it becomes safe for some politicians to change their minds.
    sometimes, yes.
    other times it happens simply because the opposition to change is no longer in power.

    Reply

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